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+
+From david.belius@chello.se Wed Nov  8 22:24:58 2000
+Received: from smtp2.chello.se (smtp2.chello.se [193.150.195.11])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eA8LOrO97132
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 22:24:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from chello.se ([193.150.204.103]) by smtp2.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65)
+          with ESMTP id <20001108191920.NNBL15963.smtp2@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 20:19:20 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A09A729.FB8FB4AB@chello.se>
+Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:19:05 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] What kind of game are you making?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello.
+I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+have to be free even though the code is free.
+I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+What kind of game are you making?
+How long have you been working on NeL?
+
+Best Regards,
+David
+
+
+From nhognon@noos.fr Wed Nov  8 23:06:00 2000
+Received: from camus.cybercable.fr (camus.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.200])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id eA8M5xO97411
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:05:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nhognon@noos.fr)
+Received: (qmail 1022931 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2000 19:41:53 -0000
+Received: from r184m194.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO noos.fr) ([195.132.184.194]) (envelope-sender <nhognon@noos.fr>)
+          by camus.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 8 Nov 2000 19:41:53 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A09AC8F.BF800703@noos.fr>
+Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:42:07 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <nhognon@noos.fr>
+Reply-To: cblt@cblt.org
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] problem about the bug report interface
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hy ....
+
+yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+but i encounter a problem to report it.
+
+on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+the right part of the page is hidden
+so i use internet explorer :((
+but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+fine ....
+
+that's all ...
+
+
+-- 
+ Nicolas Hognon (aka SilentBob)
+ home : cblt@cblt.org / www.cblt.org
+ work : nicolash@next-url.com / www.next-url.com
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Nov  9 14:17:49 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eA9DHmO02392
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:17:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26737
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:16:39 +0100
+Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:16:39 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] What kind of game are you making?
+Message-ID: <20001109111639.L24796@nevrax.com>
+References: <3A09A729.FB8FB4AB@chello.se>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <3A09A729.FB8FB4AB@chello.se>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to david.belius@chello.se:
+> I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+
+Thanks for the attention. And the questions - I'm lazy, and couldn't
+find anything to put in the FAQ yet, so your questions will serve as the
+initial set :)
+
+> You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+> have to be free even though the code is free.
+> I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+
+A good assumption. Yes, we are making a game using that platform, or
+we are making that platform for our game, depending on how you look at
+it.
+
+> What kind of game are you making?
+
+We are working on, what else, a MMORPG "whose details are yet to be
+announced (blah blah)". Due to the marketing plans putting a gun on my
+head, I'm not at a liberty to discuss the game content and so on :(
+
+We're trying to be as general as possible, but the emphasis is definitively
+on multiplayer RPG.
+
+> How long have you been working on NeL?
+
+It depends on how you look at it. We've been in pre-planning stages since
+march 2000; looking at architecture options, development contraints,
+potentials pre-existing bits, interesting algorithms, and so on. The
+real, definitive coding has started in earnest early september, which
+is why NeL is not at the stage where you can see anything right sexy
+on your screen now; we're busy filling in the fundations of the library.
+
+With 9 full-time people on the programming staff, however, you can expect
+things to move rather fast. We do have deadlines, which include having a
+visible game skeleton within the next months, and the game proper going
+beta in late 2001, early 2002.
+
+What else can I say. We do expect to provide some form of game data quickly,
+because we don't expect everyone to suddendly turn into a professional
+3D modeler and artist to fill in, so don't despair yet at lack of game data
+(the data will reside in a separate module than the 'code' CVS module
+ available right now).
+
+Can't say what's the "demo data" will be, except it won't be our true
+game data, will be chilly, and you can expect to meet some non-flying birds
+all over the place :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From yan@nevrax.com Thu Nov  9 18:51:51 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eA9HpoO03922
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:51:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from yan@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc5.nevrax.net (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30269
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:50:41 +0100
+Message-Id: <200011091450.PAA30269@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] problem about the bug report interface
+From: Yan Babilliot <yan@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain
+X-Mailer: Evolution 0.6 (Developer Preview)
+Date: 09 Nov 2000 12:46:40 -0200
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Hy ....
+> 
+> yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+> but i encounter a problem to report it.
+> 
+> on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+> to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+> the right part of the page is hidden
+> so i use internet explorer :((
+> but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+> fine ....
+> 
+> that's all ...
+> 
+
+Thank for the bug-report.
+You should now be able to report bugs with Netscape/Windows ;)
+
+
+
+-- 
+
+
+From cary@farriersoft.com Thu Nov  9 20:53:28 2000
+Received: from gash2.peakpeak.com (IDENT:root@gasherbrumII.peakpeak.com [207.174.178.17])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eA9JrRO05112
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:53:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cary@farriersoft.com)
+Received: from p3-500 (box004.farriersoft.com [207.174.69.4])
+	by gash2.peakpeak.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09152
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:47:52 -0700
+Message-Id: <4.1.20001109104828.009c6540@mail.farriersoft.com>
+X-Sender: cfarrier@mail.farriersoft.com
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 
+Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:50:21 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Cary Farrier <cary@farriersoft.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
+Subject: [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+(SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+
+Any thoughts?
+
+-> Cary
+--
+
+Cary Farrier    
+Farrier Software, Inc.                        (303) 875-9148 fax/message
+cary@farriersoft.com                        <http://www.farriersoft.com>
+
+
+From stefan.nilsen@telia.com Thu Nov  9 22:49:35 2000
+Received: from d1o976.telia.com (root@d1o976.telia.com [213.64.10.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eA9LnZO06403
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:49:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from stefan.nilsen@telia.com)
+Received: from wale.kunosoft.se (t3o976p35.telia.com [213.64.11.35])
+	by d1o976.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03810
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:44:00 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from wale (unknown [127.0.0.2])
+	by wale.kunosoft.se (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.0 (i386)) with SMTP id 1AAB4945
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  9 Nov 2000 19:43:59 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
+From: Stefan Nilsen <stefan.nilsen@telia.com>
+Reply-To: stefan.nilsen@telia.com
+Organization: Millnet AB
+Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:43:58 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99]
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <00110920435801.13297@wale>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id eA9LnZO06403
+Subject: [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi guys.
+
+I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed 
+home this thing?
+
+Look below for my trial and (mostly) error.
+
+I would like to RTFM, but i don't find any :-(
+
+Pls help me!
+
+Btw, I run SuSE 7.0 if that helps anyone, and my computer is Y2K safe :-)
+
+----- cut here -----
+
+A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+
+
+I have tried the following commands:
+aclocal  
+
+(i got myself an aclocal.m4)
+
+automake 
+
+automake: configure.in: required file `./install-sh' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./mkinstalldirs' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./missing' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.guess' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.sub' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./INSTALL' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./COPYING' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found   
+
+automake -a
+
+automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./missing'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.guess'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.sub'
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./INSTALL'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./COPYING'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found  
+
+autoconf
+
+This gives me some of the missing files in the step above.
+
+automake -a  (again...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found  
+
+autoheader
+
+(silence...)
+
+automake -a (a final time...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found   
+
+./configure
+
+...
+...
+...
+checking for fcntl.h... yes
+checking for unistd.h... yes
+checking for working const... yes
+updating cache ./config.cache
+creating ./config.status
+creating Makefile
+creating src/Makefile
+creating src/misc/Makefile
+creating src/net/Makefile
+creating include/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./include/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating lib/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./lib/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating doc/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./doc/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating include/config.h    
+
+make
+
+Making all in include
+make[1]: Entering directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1       
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Nov 10 12:34:03 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAABY0O11780
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:34:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07119
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:32:47 +0100
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:32:47 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?
+Message-ID: <20001110093247.I6419@nevrax.com>
+References: <4.1.20001109104828.009c6540@mail.farriersoft.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <4.1.20001109104828.009c6540@mail.farriersoft.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Cary Farrier:
+> I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+> to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+> (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+
+Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+
+Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Nov 10 12:42:57 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAABgqO11849
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:42:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07306
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:41:37 +0100
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:41:37 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20001110094137.K6419@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+Subject: [Nel] List settings changes
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Administrative note: I've switched the list settings. Made the list
+membership private - i.e. you have to enter your password to access
+the list members, in order to avoid spammers grabbing the list -, and
+what's more important, redirected replies to mailing list itself.
+
+If you want to reply to the sender of the message itself, you now have
+to use a group reply, and then edit the recipients to remove the list.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Nov 10 13:14:18 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAACEHO12095
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:14:17 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07889
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+	Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:09:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:09:32 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...
+Message-ID: <20001110110932.A26381@nevrax.com>
+References: <00110920435801.13297@wale>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <00110920435801.13297@wale>; from stefan.nilsen@telia.com on Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 08:43:58PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+> 
+> I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed 
+> home this thing?
+>
+> [...]
+
+At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+
+We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+
+> A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+
+Thanks for your help ! :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+From bryce@neptune.net Fri Nov 10 13:28:06 2000
+Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (IDENT:bryce@pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAACS3O12202
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+X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 02:22:23 -0800 (PST)
+From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?
+In-Reply-To: <20001110093247.I6419@nevrax.com>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10011100212180.26996-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Cary, 
+
+The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits. 
+
+Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+
+Longer answer:  
+http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/docs/stlhelp.txt
+
+The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+than by Microsoft.  Detailed errata is available here:
+    http://www.dinkumware.com/
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> According to Cary Farrier:
+> > I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+> > to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+> > (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+> 
+> Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+> interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+> there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+> for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+> you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+> 
+> Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+> 
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Fri Nov 10 13:35:22 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAACZLO12321
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+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:29:31 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Subject: [Nel] WorldForge
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (http://www.worldforge.org).
+Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Nov 10 13:45:45 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAACjiO12402
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA08363
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:44:33 +0100
+Message-ID: <00c001c04b03$1b9c5830$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10011100212180.26996-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:43:48 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+> very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+>
+> Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+
+ok, this define disables the macro min & max, it's same behavior as doing
+#undef min #undef max
+but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+*no* min
+definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &
+max
+template function in our code... no very cool...
+
+> Longer answer:
+>
+http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/doc
+s/stlhelp.txt
+>
+> The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+> than by Microsoft.  Detailed errata is available here:
+>     http://www.dinkumware.com/
+>
+> Bryce
+>
+> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > According to Cary Farrier:
+> > > I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+> > > to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+> > > (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+> >
+> > Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+> > interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+> > there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+> > for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+> > you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+> >
+> > Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+> >
+>
+> --
+> Bryce Harrington
+> bryce @ neptune.net
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Fri Nov 10 13:46:26 2000
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAACkNO12424
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:39:36 +0100
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:39:36 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] WorldForge
+Message-ID: <20001110113936.A9739@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001110112251.00af52c0@pop.nevrax.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
+	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND"
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001110112251.00af52c0@pop.nevrax.net>; from lejade@nevrax.com on Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Greetings to you all ... :-)
+
+
+On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+> Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+> The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (http://www.worldforge.=
+org).
+
+Whooo hooo :-)
+
+> Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+
+Good question, I'm listening too ..
+
+	Thierry Mallard, a.k.a Shaman on Worldforge.org ;-)
+	(who didn't do much on this)
+
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
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+
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+=hdVU
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+
+
+From bryce@neptune.net Fri Nov 10 14:48:51 2000
+Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (IDENT:bryce@pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAADmiO12831
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:48:50 +0100 (CET)
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+X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 03:43:08 -0800 (PST)
+From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?
+In-Reply-To: <00c001c04b03$1b9c5830$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10011100305050.8937-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Heh, well sorry but that's MS for ya...  
+
+As I recall, if you go MFC-free this particular issue will vanish.
+However there are other insidious STL bugs with Visual C++.
+
+If in fact you are using MFC, I would urge you to cease doing so at the
+earliest convenience.  Not only for portability reasons (MFC *ain't*
+portable, especially not backwards-wise) but also because it is a poor
+architecture for GUI development, and is not really in the GPL spirit of
+things.  If you intend to conduct your development openly as a net
+project, then crossplatformness is going to be especially treasured by
+you.  There are many options for crossplatform GUI libs.  Let me know if
+you'd like to discuss this more.  My two preferred libs are wxWindows
+(good for OS-matching widgets for editors and similar), or libuta (SDL
+compatible and skinnable).  Mozilla has another cross platform GUI lib
+but I've not used it in its current incarnation so don't know whether
+it's usable independently of Mozilla.
+
+FWIW, I always stick this boilerplate code in any file that uses STL
+that I'd like to compile with MSVC 4.2:
+
+#ifdef _MSC_VER
+// Fix broken STL implementation in MSVC 4.2
+// Include files (for MSVC)
+#pragma warning(disable: 4786)  // Kludge to get around bug in MSVC 4.2
+#pragma warning(disable: 4788)  // See above
+#endif
+
+I think you may be stuck including your own max/min template functions.
+That's a pretty minor thing compared with some of the patches you may
+have to make to work around some of the other issues (especially if you
+want to support pre-6.0 MSVC).  
+
+Ultimately, you're going to want to trim down use of STL anyway, so you
+can recover the performance loss.  We still use STL at WorldForge, for
+instance, but some simple tests show that hand coded, non-templated map
+and list classes provide some modest performance gains, and some day
+when we're down to squeezing out the last bits of performance, we'll
+probably be pulling STL out ourselves.
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+> > The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+> > very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+> >
+> > Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+> 
+> ok, this define disables the macro min & max, it's same behavior as doing
+> #undef min #undef max
+> but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+> *no* min
+> definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &
+> max
+> template function in our code... no very cool...
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+From bryce@neptune.net Sat Nov 11 00:05:03 2000
+Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (IDENT:bryce@pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAAN52O19688
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:05:02 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:03:48 -0800
+X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs
+Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:03:48 -0800 (PST)
+From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] WorldForge
+In-Reply-To: <20001110113936.A9739@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10011101448130.10022-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+> > Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+> > The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (http://www.worldforge.org).
+> 
+> Whooo hooo :-)
+
+*Grin*  Hiya.
+ 
+> > Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+> 
+> Good question, I'm listening too ..
+
+Ah, well at this point I'm just being a pair of ears.  I'm hoping to get
+a pointer to something describing what the group's plan is or some feel
+for the "big picture".
+
+(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+get to roast a marshmallow or two.  *wink*)
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+From olivier@openminds.org Sat Nov 11 15:19:40 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eABEJdO26495
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:19:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from olivier@openminds.org)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21268
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:22:48 +0100
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001111150823.00b06100@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:18:09 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <olivier@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] WorldForge
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10011101448130.10022-100000@pulsar.neptune.n
+ et>
+References: <20001110113936.A9739@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At 03:03 PM 11/10/00 -0800, you wrote:
+>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+> > > Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+> > > The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself 
+> (http://www.worldforge.org).
+> >
+> > Whooo hooo :-)
+>
+>*Grin*  Hiya.
+>
+> > > Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+> >
+> > Good question, I'm listening too ..
+>
+>
+>
+>(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+>combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+>crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+>get to roast a marshmallow or two.  *wink*)
+>
+>--
+>Bryce Harrington
+>bryce @ neptune.net
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+--
+"Minds are like parachutes. They work best when open."
+
+
+From sferro@wojo.com Sat Nov 11 22:16:45 2000
+Received: from cliff.acs.oakland.edu (cliff.acs.oakland.edu [141.210.10.111])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eABLGiO28596
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:16:44 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:15:28 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast>
+From: "Sal" <sferro@wojo.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:18:21 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+First a little rant to explain my being here: :-)
+
+    I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce.  Though not nearly as
+famous ;-)   I stumbled upon Nevrax the other day and am very interested in
+its development.  My goal a few years back was to help create a free,
+massively multiplayer online RPG system, one that I could enjoy myself and
+that others could build from to make their own persistant online worlds.
+And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+to achieve such a goal.
+
+    Most opensource projects that start up have caught my eye, the first
+being the Ultima online emulator scene which  I was a part of for a long
+time, coding admin tools, NPC ai, network code, etc. Whatever seemed the
+most challenging task.   I got soon fed up with having to deal with the idea
+that all the hard work might not even turn out to be legal, and all the
+problems that OSI provided for the emu scene I didnt care for.  So I then
+came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+gaming system.
+
+    So I took on the responsibility of developer XClient, a 3d client.  The
+root of its homepage is here, if anyone's interested:
+http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/
+
+    Some shots of its recent developments (a terrain engine) are here:
+http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain1.jpg
+http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain2.jpg
+    (Its very early in development)
+
+    Some old out of date client shots:
+http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/screenshots/
+
+    And lastly, a goals paper that I've recently written to illustrate what
+the goals are in XClient development.  This one I recommend reading above
+the others.
+http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/developer/goals
+
+    I've also created a Map editor (XEdit) a UDP networking library based
+off of the GPLd quake code (XUDP) and a simple test server (XServer).  All
+of this and XClient are in Worldforge cvs for those interested.  If there
+are questions about any of these things, please ask!
+
+    Anyhow, yes there is a point to all this.  It seems that a lot of
+Worldforge's goals and development are in tandem with Nevrax's.  So,  I
+thought it would be worth it to see  1) how compatible our projects are and
+2) if we might be able to help each other out in any form, whether it be
+artwork, code, or knowledge.  3) how much interest, if any, there is in
+sharing efforts.
+
+    So if I could ask a few questions.  I tried finding out some information
+through the website, but some questions remain:
+
+1)  I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+project also developing a specific game that uses the library?  If so what
+details of it are known?  As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+
+2)  What is the development strategy?  For example Worldforge will be
+developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'.  Will you guys be
+doing a similar thing?
+
+3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being targeted
+(high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+
+4)  I get this question a lot :-)  Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+
+5)  What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+
+6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+7)  Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started?  And if
+so,  why was it deemed necessary to start another,  independant effort with
+the same goals?
+
+8)  Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will use
+in the following areas:
+                - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+                - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+                - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+any?)
+                - Model format(s)
+                - Texture format(s)
+
+9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+free software? :-)
+
+
+    Thats about all I have for now.  I'm sure more will come up in the
+future.  You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair questions.
+
+    Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+efforts.  Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working towards.
+I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+
+- Sal
+sferro@wojo.com
+
+
+
+
+
+
+From stefan.nilsen@telia.com Sat Nov 11 22:56:57 2000
+Received: from d1o976.telia.com (root@d1o976.telia.com [213.64.10.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eABLuvO28793
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:56:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from stefan.nilsen@telia.com)
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+	by wale.kunosoft.se (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.0 (i386)) with SMTP id 8C025945
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:55:37 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
+From: Stefan Nilsen <stefan.nilsen@telia.com>
+Organization: Millnet AB
+Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:55:37 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99]
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="us-ascii"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <00110920435801.13297@wale> <20001110110932.A26381@nevrax.com>
+In-Reply-To: <20001110110932.A26381@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <00111122553700.23090@wale>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id eABLuvO28793
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+>
+> We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+
+Ok, that explains it. Maybe I'm not stupid after all... :-)
+
+
+From stefan.nilsen@telia.com Sun Nov 12 14:05:43 2000
+Received: from d1o976.telia.com (root@d1o976.telia.com [213.64.10.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eACD5gO33377
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:05:42 +0100 (CET)
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+	by d1o976.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20795
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+	by wale.kunosoft.se (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.0 (i386)) with SMTP id AC164945
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:04:24 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
+From: Stefan Nilsen <stefan.nilsen@telia.com>
+Organization: Millnet AB
+Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:04:22 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99]
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <00111214042201.23090@wale>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id eACD5gO33377
+Subject: [Nel] Some Linux patches
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I made som fixes for compile on Linux.
+
+This is the first time i submit a patch, so please tell me if i'm doing 
+anything wrong.
+
+Index: Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.1 Makefile.am
+9c9
+< SUBDIRS= include src lib doc
+---
+> SUBDIRS= src doc
+Index: src/net/base_socket.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.16
+diff -r1.16 base_socket.cpp
+40a41,42
+> #define __need_timeval
+> #include <bits/time.h>
+42c44
+< #include <netinet/tcp/h>
+---
+> #include <netinet/tcp.h>
+261c263
+< 	int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+> 	socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+344c346
+< 	int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+> 	socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+374c376
+<
+---
+>
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Sun Nov 12 15:00:01 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eACE01O33652
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 15:00:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc252.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29313
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:03:08 +0100
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20001112123544.00b0da10@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:58:30 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments
+In-Reply-To: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Sal,
+
+My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too 
+much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically 
+oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it 
+would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in the 
+FAQ.
+I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+
+At 04:18 PM 11/11/00 -0500, you wrote:
+>I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce.  Though not nearly as
+>famous ;-)
+
+Or so you think... ;)
+
+>And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+>to achieve such a goal.
+
+Thanks for the attention.
+We hope and believe so too.
+
+>So I then
+>came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+>opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+>gaming system.
+
+Yes, WorldForge is a very impressive project with a very, very large scope. 
+We are all admirative of your capacity to handle such a large and diverse 
+community. Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially 
+daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+
+Here at Nevrax, we do not intend to have such a large range of activity. We 
+are concentrating on a 3D client (no 2D, text, etc) and we are doing all 
+the artwork/game design internally.
+Nevrax.org will focus on fostering a "technical" community.
+
+>1) how compatible our projects are
+
+I'll let the coders answer on the technical aspect. However, on a more 
+philosophical point of vue, I'd say our project are very compatible, 
+siblings really, since they are both GPL.
+
+>1)  I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+>project also developing a specific game that uses the library?
+
+Yes. we are currently developing a yet unannounced commercial MMORPG.
+
+>If so what
+>details of it are known?  As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+
+At this time, I'm sorry to say we cannot disclose any information 
+concerning game design / artwork. However things are bound to change as we 
+go along, and some information will start trickling out in the coming months.
+
+>2)  What is the development strategy?  For example Worldforge will be
+>developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+>etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'.  Will you guys be
+>doing a similar thing?
+
+Not in the sense of WF (i.e lots of intermediary games). We are working on 
+a single game. However, we do have a number of milestones. Also by the end 
+of the year, we will be disclosing a "sample world" under an open content 
+license for the community to kick around and have fun with. But this will 
+have nothing to do with our final game.
+
+>4)  I get this question a lot :-)  Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+>not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+
+We checked out CS of course as well as many others, and while it is a very 
+nice engine, it did not seem to fit our particular needs.
+
+>6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+>internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting software, 
+however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And 
+while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile 
+functionnality.
+
+On the game content side though, we are keeping things to ourselves for now.
+Expect to be really, really suprised though... :)
+
+>7)  Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started?  And if
+>so,  why was it deemed necessary to start another,  independant effort with
+>the same goals?
+
+Yes, we knew of WF (actually, since the time it was called Altima !).
+We took some time to consider joining the effort, however we felt there was 
+a number of reasons for not doing so. I'll give you some of them :
+
+- We wanted to keep a tight focus on the game we are doing and did not want 
+to be hindered in political struggles to get the code where we needed. We 
+felt the WF community might ressent us steering in directions that they 
+would not care for. We have a tight schedule : we want the game out in 2002.
+Which means we could'nt spare to much time arguing about it.
+
+- We have different goals : we are a commercial entity. We don't have the 
+educational/hobbyist approach of WF. Nevrax has a complete team of seasoned 
+professionals not only at the programming level, but also on the design / 
+3D artwork / concept side working every day towards one goal : getting the 
+game out.
+
+- We have a highly original world which poses a great number of 
+constraints. We felt we would be in a better position to adress them by 
+leading our own effort.
+
+That said, I must emphasize that we do not see ourselves as "competing" 
+with WF. We are simply two different projects, taking two different 
+approach at building a Free Software system for MMORPGs. Diversity is A 
+Good Thing.
+I wish WF will succeed and I hope there will be as much cooperation between 
+the two projects as possible.
+
+>9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+>free software? :-)
+
+Ah ha ! :)
+
+Free Software doesn't mean free content or free service.
+While our software is Free, we retain property of our game data. And to 
+access our servers in order to play our game, users will be asked to pay a 
+monthly fee just like with the other commercial games.
+
+Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match. 
+And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening 
+our source code.
+
+I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise 
+even more questions !
+
+Thanks for your encouragments,
+
+Olivier
+
+
+From sferro@wojo.com Sun Nov 12 16:33:08 2000
+Received: from cliff.acs.oakland.edu (cliff.acs.oakland.edu [141.210.10.111])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eACFX4O34109
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:33:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from sferro@wojo.com)
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+	by cliff.acs.oakland.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id eACFVh9449811
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:31:44 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <06a101c04cbe$1d0b2220$0400a8c0@fast>
+From: "Sal" <sferro@wojo.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001112123544.00b0da10@pop.nevrax.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments
+Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:34:56 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Hi Sal,
+>
+> My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too
+> much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically
+> oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it
+> would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in
+the
+> FAQ.
+> I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+
+    Thank you for taking the time to respond Olivier, this clears up a lot
+of questions!
+
+> Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially
+> daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+> As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+
+    I very much agree here.  In my experience I've discovered that media is
+very hard to come by.  Talented artists don't like to work for free, and who
+can blame them, a lot of the industry's tools are expensive and take a lot
+of effort and time to learn.  I think this is one of the biggest obstacles
+in free game software development, the lack of good, free media.  If Nevrax
+is able to help out in this area, the opensource commmunity, Worldforge
+included, would be very grateful...
+
+[ ... ]
+> Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting
+software,
+> however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And
+> while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile
+> functionnality.
+[ ... ]
+
+    I understand your intentions.  With openness in development comes
+conflict in views on many issues.  As a project under a tight schedule,
+resolving all issues in the open might not be the most efficient approach
+timewise.
+
+    If there still is any desire to collaborate on things such as client
+engine design, I would be happy to.  If XClient and the Nel client could be
+made more compatible in any way, I think it would be worth the effort.  If
+similairity in protocol could be obtained, then our software could
+communicate with each other.  Likewise, if rendering architecture was
+similair, we could collaborate on, and/or share pieces of code for the game
+engines.  Either way I think it could mean saving work and time for the both
+of us...
+
+    On the other hand, collaborating would logically take some effort, which
+I understand Nevrax may or may not have the time for.  It still might be
+worth considering, at any rate.
+
+> Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match.
+> And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening
+> our source code.
+
+    Here I very much agree, also!
+
+> I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise
+> even more questions !
+
+    Thanks again!  And I await the answers to the other, more technical
+questions. ;-)
+
+- Sal
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Nov 13 12:35:22 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eADBZLO41166
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:35:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA06386
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:38:27 +0100
+Message-ID: <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments
+Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:37:49 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello sal!
+
+> 3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being
+targeted
+> (high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+
+you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+features
+of the 3d engine (http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html)
+that we plan to develop.
+
+> 5)  What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+
+hum... good question :-) today, the code is not able to do lot of things but
+it'll change in few weeks. the misc component contains lot of really cool
+tools like serializable system, input events system, internationalization,
+math classes, etc...
+there's only the skeleton of the 3d engine but, low level layers start to
+work
+and it'll display polygons in few days :) the low interface font manager is
+ready
+to display text and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+theses
+tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+for the network components, all communication layers are available.
+the service based class is ready too and will be extented in the futur.
+few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+we'll work on a "client" exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+perhaps, display someting :)
+
+> 6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+> internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software community.
+
+> 8)  Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will
+use
+> in the following areas:
+
+is the whitepaper not enough? ok , we ll add some stuffs on it :)
+
+>                 - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+
+for now, we only manage TCP/IP and plan to use UDP only the visual effect
+like
+smooth dead reckoning (the standard dead reckoning will be in TCP/IP for
+some
+cheating reasons)
+
+>                 - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+
+we use a generic streamable and serializable system so we don't have any
+file format :-)
+it's a really powerful system!!! and so easy to manage!
+
+>                 - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+> any?)
+
+we use 3ds max only, and we create plugins for our needs.
+
+>                 - Model format(s)
+
+same as mapfile :)
+
+>                 - Texture format(s)
+
+we use .dds format for pre-compressed texture format (DXTC*) and
+pre-computed mimap.
+we also use .tga for normal texture/image :-)
+
+> 9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+> free software? :-)
+
+we are paid, i can confirm :-)
+
+>     Thats about all I have for now.  I'm sure more will come up in the
+> future.  You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+> in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair
+questions.
+
+yes, we'll add these questions in the FAQ!
+
+>     Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+> efforts.  Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working
+towards.
+> I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+
+thanks
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Mon Nov 13 20:07:15 2000
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.augur.de [194.122.160.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eADJ7FO43627
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:07:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
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+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA03799
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:05:30 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3A103B7A.3C5EEE6B@teleaction.de>
+Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:05:30 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: ru, en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux build
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello, to all !
+Nice to see what all my dreams come true )))
+I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+able to put our hands on it ?
+This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+VC++
+installed ;))
+Wish you good luck
+
+--
+Dim Zager
+
+
+
+From sferro@wojo.com Mon Nov 13 22:37:56 2000
+Received: from cliff.acs.oakland.edu (cliff.acs.oakland.edu [141.210.10.111])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eADLbqO44459
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:37:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from sferro@wojo.com)
+Received: from fast (ppp-pm03-dy-24.opr.oakland.edu [141.210.14.245])
+	by cliff.acs.oakland.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id eADLaX9123993
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:36:34 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast>
+From: "Sal" <sferro@wojo.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments
+Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:40:01 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Vianney,  I'm glad to have made acquaintance with the lead programmer
+of this amazing effort!
+
+> Hello sal!
+>
+> > 3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being
+> targeted
+> > (high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+>
+> you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+> features
+> of the 3d engine (http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html)
+> that we plan to develop.
+
+    Thanks for your time in answering my questions.  I took the time the
+other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code.  I
+must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an early
+stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+
+> few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+> we'll work on a "client" exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+> perhaps, display someting :)
+
+    A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+this neat stuff!  This would logically be needed for testing and developing
+new features, also.
+
+    Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it seems
+to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress?   ( I have
+nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might be
+of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+
+> [...] and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+> theses
+> tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+
+    This raises a question I've been pondering myself.  I've also recently
+created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated characters
+from character studio.  Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it?  I wasn't
+able to resolve this from the documention included.  I know that the sdk
+itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+o.k...
+
+> > 6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+> > internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+>
+> We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software
+community.
+
+    Thats great to hear.  I (and I'm sure many others) would like to see
+this operation become a success, and would like to help it do so.  As is
+evident with the existance of projects like Worldforge, one can see that a
+GPLish mmorpg system is very desired by many people.  I also think it would
+be cool if Nevrax showed the world that Free Software works, even in the
+commercial market... and maybe help encourage other companies to do the same
+in the future.
+
+Thanks again for the info!
+- Sal
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Nov 14 10:09:10 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAE999O47999
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:09:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20394
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:12:14 +0100
+Message-ID: <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:11:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] my last email :)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello all,
+
+>     Thanks for your time in answering my questions.  I took the time the
+> other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code.  I
+> must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+> And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an
+early
+> stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+
+Thanks a lot :) We hope to continue in this way!
+
+>     A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+> this neat stuff!  This would logically be needed for testing and
+developing
+> new features, also.
+
+In a first time, this client will do nothing else than init the nel lib and
+perhaps
+display a text and a triangle :) be patient!
+
+>     Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it
+seems
+> to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+> Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+> theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+> rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress?   ( I
+have
+> nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might
+be
+> of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+
+Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+things that
+the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+should wait the
+end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+
+>     This raises a question I've been pondering myself.  I've also recently
+> created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated
+characters
+> from character studio.  Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+> these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it?  I wasn't
+> able to resolve this from the documention included.  I know that the sdk
+> itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+> o.k...
+
+I'm not able to answer, perhaps our 3d code lead could answer this.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Tue Nov 14 11:38:21 2000
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.augur.de [194.122.160.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEAcLO48457
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:38:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from teleaction.de (homeserver [194.122.160.76])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA07443
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:36:32 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:36:31 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: ru, en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] my last email :)
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Best regards,
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead programmer / nevrax.com
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+
+At least we know the name of game itself :))
+From Vianney's home page - Ryzom game for Nevrax
+www.ryzom.com - very similar to www.transmeta.com in early days (but without
+hidden msg )))
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Nov 14 16:51:43 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEFpgO49915
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:51:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25807
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:54:45 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eAEFpPv32928
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:51:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:51:25 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux build
+Message-ID: <20001114165125.A32166@nevrax.com>
+References: <3A103B7A.3C5EEE6B@teleaction.de>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3A103B7A.3C5EEE6B@teleaction.de>; from zager@teleaction.com on Mon, Nov 13, 2000 at 08:05:30PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Dim,
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+> 
+> I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+> anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+> able to put our hands on it ?
+
+Soon ... ;-)
+
+You should be able to get Nel to compile on Linux in the following days.
+
+
+> This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+> afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+> internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+> VC++ installed ;))
+
+I see very well what you mean ... :-)
+
+
+> Wish you good luck
+
+Thanks a lot.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Tue Nov 14 17:01:44 2000
+Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEG1iO49986
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:01:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from chello.se ([193.150.204.103]) by smtp1.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65)
+          with ESMTP id <20001114155953.GUFY736.smtp1@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:59:53 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A11617E.C038F2CE@chello.se>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:59:58 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Flexibility
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi
+
+I'm wondering how general the nel library will be. Will it be a *MMORPG*
+engine or will it be more general so i can e.g. make a Massive Multiplay
+Online Real Time Stragegy game(MMORTS =)?
+Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+
+/David
+
+PS.
+I just found out that Vianney was in the Outcast team! How cool isnt
+that?
+DS.
+
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Tue Nov 14 17:06:57 2000
+Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEG6uO50024
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:06:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from chello.se ([193.150.204.103]) by smtp1.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65)
+          with ESMTP id <20001114160503.GUNS736.smtp1@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:05:03 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A1162B4.487623FB@chello.se>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:05:08 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] my last email :)
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+> things that
+> the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+> You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+> In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+> should wait the
+> end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+
+Have you put this list online?
+It would be nice to get some orders so I could start contributing =)
+
+/David
+
+
+From ludovic.lievre@chaman.net Tue Nov 14 17:11:05 2000
+Received: from mail.fr.uu.net (smtp2.fr.uu.net [194.98.0.8])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEGB4O50066
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:11:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ludovic.lievre@chaman.net)
+Received: from CarlCox.iway.fr (carlcox.iway.fr [194.98.0.128])
+	by mail.fr.uu.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A546C31C80
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:09:24 +0100 (MET)
+Received: from cosmos ([212.208.43.187])
+	by CarlCox.iway.fr (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA4537947
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:10:25 +0100 (MET)
+From: "Ludovic LIEVRE" <ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Flexibility
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:10:49 +0100
+Message-ID: <NEBBLPEMGLBPPBFFJJLGEEFJCDAA.ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <3A11617E.C038F2CE@chello.se>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+<SNIP>
+
+> Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+
+A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+french company where I'm currently working.
+The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+released in 2001.
+Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+
+Ludo
+
+--
+Ludovic LIEVRE
+Chaman Productions
+mailto:ludo@chaman.net
+
+"Give me a museum and I'll fill it."
+Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Tue Nov 14 17:34:06 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEGY5O50183
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:34:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26408
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:37:08 +0100
+Message-ID: <008301c04e58$9ad12420$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <NEBBLPEMGLBPPBFFJJLGEEFJCDAA.ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Flexibility
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:33:22 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+It smell shark!
+you don't feel the same smell?
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Ludovic LIEVRE" <ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 5:10 PM
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Flexibility
+
+
+> 
+> Hi,
+> 
+> <SNIP>
+> 
+> > Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+> 
+> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+> french company where I'm currently working.
+> The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+> released in 2001.
+> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+> 
+> 
+> Ludo
+> 
+> --
+> Ludovic LIEVRE
+> Chaman Productions
+> mailto:ludo@chaman.net
+> 
+> "Give me a museum and I'll fill it."
+> Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Tue Nov 14 18:29:06 2000
+Received: from smtp2.chello.se (smtp2.chello.se [193.150.195.11])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEHSYO50443
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:28:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from chello.se ([193.150.204.103]) by smtp2.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65)
+          with ESMTP id <20001114172717.GPAD531.smtp2@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:27:17 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A1175D9.1B12D591@chello.se>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:26:49 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Flexibility
+References: <NEBBLPEMGLBPPBFFJJLGEEFJCDAA.ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>
+> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+> french company where I'm currently working.
+> The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+> released in 2001.
+> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+Please, please, please, please could you get me into the beta test =)
+I'd relly appriciate it.
+
+/David
+
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Tue Nov 14 18:31:00 2000
+Received: from smtp2.chello.se (smtp2.chello.se [193.150.195.11])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEHUxO50472
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:31:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from chello.se ([193.150.204.103]) by smtp2.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65)
+          with ESMTP id <20001114172943.GPDN531.smtp2@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:43 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A11766A.E7B38560@chello.se>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:14 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Flexibility (oops)
+References: <NEBBLPEMGLBPPBFFJJLGEEFJCDAA.ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>
+> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+> french company where I'm currently working.
+> The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+> released in 2001.
+> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+I didnt find that beta test joining page at first. =/
+Ignore my pathetic begging. ;)
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Tue Nov 14 19:45:05 2000
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.augur.de [194.122.160.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEIj4O50854
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:45:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from teleaction.de (homeserver [194.122.160.76])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA26311
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:43:18 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3A1187C4.DFE1E8C1@teleaction.de>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:43:16 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: ru, en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] my last email :)
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+> > Best regards,
+> >
+> > Vianney Lecroart
+> > ---
+> > lead programmer / nevrax.com
+> > homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+>
+> At least we know the name of game itself :))
+
+He he ... :))
+I wouldn't insist on revealing  name of the game. I'm respecting
+commercial nature of this project. Without it NeL wasn't be born at all
+of was not available under GPL
+Hope, I didn't destroy you plans too mach ... ))
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Tue Nov 14 20:35:57 2000
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.augur.de [194.122.160.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEJZuO51129
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:35:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from teleaction.de (homeserver [194.122.160.76])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28015
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:34:10 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3A1193B1.87FEAD95@teleaction.de>
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:34:09 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: ru, en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Ok, after browsing game projects which mentioned on
+http://ace.planet-d.net I come to conclusion
+what your new game will be really MASSIVELY multi-user with _very_
+detailed world(s) running in your
+universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+street (or any other type of portal, analog of <a href> in HTML)
+he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+I think what mechanism of linking between different worlds similar to
+WWW will be a good starting point for
+creating Internet2 (why not ? ;))
+What's about starting RFC  for WCP (World Communicating Protocol) ?
+
+
+
+
+From dan@isvara.net Tue Nov 14 20:54:14 2000
+Received: from matrix.active-high.co.uk (matrix.active-high.co.uk [212.69.196.2])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAEJsEO51235
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:54:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from dan@isvara.net)
+Received: from localhost (dan@localhost)
+	by matrix.active-high.co.uk (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id eAEJq1q03829
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:52:01 GMT
+Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:52:01 +0000 (GMT)
+From: Dan Ellis <dan@isvara.net>
+X-Sender: dan@matrix.active-high.co.uk
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL
+In-Reply-To: <3A1193B1.87FEAD95@teleaction.de>
+Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0011141941330.3746-100000@matrix.active-high.co.uk>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+> universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+> for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+> street (or any other type of portal, analog of <a href> in HTML)
+> he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+> hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+> portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+> nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+
+This is something the Afterscape Project will allow. It will be a very
+distributed universe that will allow delegation of zones to other servers.
+
+-- 
+Dan Ellis <dan@isvara.net>
+
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Wed Nov 15 10:23:46 2000
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAF9NjO55398
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:23:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tsm@IDEALX.com)
+Received: from calvin.UUCP (uucp@localhost)
+	by sarajevo.idealx.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with UUCP id eAF9L9803294
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:21:09 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from tsm by calvin.ird.IDEALX.com with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
+	id 13vyjy-0002Pk-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:20:26 +0100
+Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:20:26 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL
+Message-ID: <20001115102026.A9223@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de> <3A1193B1.87FEAD95@teleaction.de>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
+	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9"
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3A1193B1.87FEAD95@teleaction.de>; from zager@teleaction.com on Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:34:09PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:34:09PM +0100, Dim Segebart wrote:
+> [...] So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+
+This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+too, although that seemed less important...=20
+
+But definitly that could be a good idea to implement now ;-)
+
+
+	Shaman
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoSVVoACgkQGBtCB6PQIcvBigCgxq5rFlp3v+hdSzp3pw+nFgWF
+LZ0AoJOg37O2L9uTxXISsGf+E8XsZIn+
+=RzT/
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9--
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Nov 15 18:24:27 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAFHOQO57768
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 18:24:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06857
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:27:27 +0100
+Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:27:27 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL
+Message-ID: <20001115172727.F6660@nevrax.com>
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de> <3A1193B1.87FEAD95@teleaction.de> <20001115102026.A9223@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <20001115102026.A9223@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Thierry Mallard:
+> This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+> not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+> were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+> have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+> can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+> too, although that seemed less important... 
+
+In a very different world (and a closed system implementation), it's also
+something Bioware's NeverWinterNights wants to achieve. Their model allows
+servers (what they call modules, which is in fact a process running a
+specific area - but you can have multiples instances concurrently running
+on the same CPU) to link to each other.
+
+Of course, their model is simpler: all servers are guaranteed to run the
+same software (it autoupdates over the Internet), the character formats are
+well defined, and the characters are ultimately stored on a central database
+(the NWN Vault) who enforces "plausibility" on the characters (a level 1
+cannot get to level 6 and 70,000 XP points in an hour of playtime; a level 3
+character cannot have a plate+2, a cloak of displacement and boots of speed,
+and so on).
+
+And they do not want to inforce any universe continuity: each server admin
+has to do it, by allowing other modules to link to yours or not.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Nov 16 17:09:16 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAGG9FO65542
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:09:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19221
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:12:16 +0100
+Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:12:16 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20001116161216.D18243@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+Subject: [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+One thing from previous questions that wasn't much developped upon.
+
+Networking.
+
+The original question was "do you use TCP or UDP for networking". My
+initial impulse was to reply "we use RDP, of course" (for those who do not
+know what RDP is, check /etc/protocols, number 27). But alas, Vianney beat
+me to the answer, so I have to be truthful.
+
+The question is: what do you use networking for, and why does the question
+on the use of TCP vs the use of UDP arises?
+
+Because, in most protocols design, this question never arises: one is clearly
+superior to the other. Why is that the question stands for a MMOG?
+
+If you look at the information elements that have to be transmitted from a
+client to the server and back, you see that they can be somehow separated
+across two different categories:
+
+1) Long-lived elements of information
+and
+2) Short-lived elements of information
+
+You may also separate on a different axis
+
+1) Uncorrectable elements of information
+and
+2) Correctable elements of information
+
+Uncorrectable elements of information are elements whose omission render the
+game state incompatible between client and server and require the transmission
+of said element, while correctable information can be overriden by a different
+game element.
+
+A few examples:
+
+- NPC X is dead: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+- critter C has N hp: this is a long-lived/correctable element
+- critter C is at X/Y/Z facing direction D: this is short-lived/correctable
+- I am casting spell C: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+
+Note that I can't find an example of short-lived, yet uncorrectable element.
+Any ideas?
+
+What do you face here? You face very different information elements. Some
+MUST be there for the world to make sense. So you have to guarantee their
+transmission: TCP makes sense. On the other hand, you have some that are
+quickly obsolete, and do not matter when lost. For them the whole TCP
+retransmission/guarantee of delivery is useless and a waste of ressources.
+
+So how do you design your protocol. You can take the short, easy route:
+use TCP (and lose performance for your position updates - which are by far
+the most numerous elements you get). You can take the long, hard route:
+use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+
+Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides you
+the service guarantee you need).
+
+One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows you to
+bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP protocol
+path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+compatible with TCP streaming).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From sferro@wojo.com Thu Nov 16 18:30:33 2000
+Received: from cliff.acs.oakland.edu (cliff.acs.oakland.edu [141.210.10.111])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAGHUUO66575
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:30:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from sferro@wojo.com)
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+	by cliff.acs.oakland.edu (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id eAGHT79464762
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:29:08 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <034c01c04ff3$27559020$0400a8c0@fast>
+From: "Sal" <sferro@wojo.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20001116161216.D18243@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts
+Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:32:09 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> You can take the long, hard route:
+> use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+> transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+
+    I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage two
+sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP.  Also the important
+data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text.  Most data in a networked
+game is usually skippable.   I think this is why most games use simple UDP,
+because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little data
+that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+o.k.   The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+
+> Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+> the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+> them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides
+you
+> the service guarantee you need).
+
+    This is one possible route... not a bad one either.  There would not be
+any sort of performance loss in comparison to a pure-UDP implementation,
+since the operating system's TCP/IP implementation is probably more
+efficient than the custom UDP one.
+
+    I guess its a matter of preference, of the developers are willing to
+code something that manages two sets of sockets int the clients and servers,
+then go for it :-)
+
+> One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows
+you to
+> bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP
+protocol
+> path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+> way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+> compatible with TCP streaming).
+
+    This is true.  Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP so,
+the genre of people who would play a MMOG would probably have dealt with the
+firewall issues before, and would expect to fix their config to accomodate a
+new game.  Of course thats a slight generalization...
+
+Just adding some more food to the bowl ;-)
+-Sal
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Fri Nov 17 10:13:54 2000
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.augur.de [194.122.160.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAH9DrO72139
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:13:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from teleaction.de (homeserver [194.122.160.76])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11024
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:12:04 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3A14F662.906433EF@teleaction.de>
+Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:12:02 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: ru, en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Problems ?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+What's wrong with this list ?
+I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+(((
+And also no posts from other members.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Nov 17 10:53:37 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAH9raO72401
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:53:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28220
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 09:56:36 +0100
+Message-ID: <002201c0507c$9d12b6b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20001116161216.D18243@nevrax.com> <034c01c04ff3$27559020$0400a8c0@fast>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts
+Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:56:10 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+>     I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage
+two
+> sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP.  Also the important
+> data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+> when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text.  Most data in a
+networked
+> game is usually skippable.   I think this is why most games use simple
+UDP,
+> because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little
+data
+> that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+> o.k.   The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+> data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+> of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+> MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+
+
+Oh really? I have not the same opinion. I think that 90% of information on a
+game
+are important and must be received if you don't want to have inconsistency
+in the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+receive
+"you lost 5 hp" message before "you are attacked by XXX", it should be
+totally
+weird. I think that messages, in a role game, must be sorted and reliable
+for
+consistency and logical events.
+
+>     This is true.  Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP
+so,
+
+be careful, there more than 1 category of network game. there are MMOG and
+counter strike like game (with few tens of players). for the second one udp
+is a
+surely useful but for MMOG, I'm not sure that the most of them are in UDP
+only.
+
+-vl
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Nov 17 15:24:53 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAHEOpO74091
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 17 Nov 2000 15:24:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA31028;
+	Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:27:39 +0100
+Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:27:39 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+Cc: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Problems ?
+Message-ID: <20001117142739.A30846@nevrax.com>
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de> <3A14F662.906433EF@teleaction.de>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <3A14F662.906433EF@teleaction.de>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Dim Segebart:
+> What's wrong with this list ?
+> I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+> (((
+> And also no posts from other members.
+
+That's a not a particularly weird one, because you're not listed as
+a member of the list. I've looked at the logs, and didn't find a record
+of your subscription confirmation.
+
+Please note that mailman doesn't let "third party subscriptions" for you;
+when you subscribe from the on-line form, mailman sends a message to the
+subscribed address asking for a confirmation, to avoid the syndrome of
+"let's register Mr X to 10,000 lists to flood his mailbox" (and the less
+bothersome 'let's put in a wrong and mispelled address'). Until you have
+properly replied to that confirmation message (keep the subject, and cut all
+the body), you will NOT receive messages from the list.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Sat Nov 18 10:01:51 2000
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAI91oO81807
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:01:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tsm@IDEALX.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:23:03 +0100
+Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:23:03 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts
+Message-ID: <20001118092303.A24033@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+References: <20001116161216.D18243@nevrax.com> <034c01c04ff3$27559020$0400a8c0@fast> <002201c0507c$9d12b6b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <002201c0507c$9d12b6b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>; from lecroart@nevrax.com on Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:56:10AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:56:10AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> [ Networking ]
+> I think that 90% of information on a game are important and must be recei=
+ved
+> if you don't want to have inconsistency in
+> the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+> receive
+> "you lost 5 hp" message before "you are attacked by XXX",=20
+
+Just two little remarks here :
+
+1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+   "you now have 37 HP" more than "you lost 5 HP" : one is skippable, the o=
+ther
+   is not.=20
+
+2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But =
+if
+that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+
+
+	Shaman,=20
+	[ still learning to write english ... ;-) ]
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
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+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoWPGcACgkQGBtCB6PQIctC4wCdHeXHaiWu8TqEpUsryl+D/wH2
+Ha8An3O5buwRHRsPEP2lr5PL1Nc2lDEu
+=xo0+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1--
+
+
+From thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com Sun Nov 19 15:17:12 2000
+Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAJEHCO90030
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2000 15:17:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com)
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+          id <20001119141551.KKKB277.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@tom>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:15:51 +0000
+Message-ID: <002e01c05232$fdcc7010$7d55fd3e@tom>
+From: "Tom wright" <thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:14:11 -0000
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all,
+
+I am quite interested in what your trying to do, having played about =
+with the ideas for one of these for more years than I care to think =
+about :-)
+
+I have some general questions I would like to ask who ever is in the =
+know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones :-)
+
+1)  Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build  the stuff ? I am =
+currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to =
+try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your =
+environment and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include =
+is missing.
+It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies =
+that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in =
+there :-)  But it will save you answering the same question lots of time =
+for those that don't look at the src
+
+2) Care to release at least a rough schedule on the website, so that =
+people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are going to be =
+released ?
+
+3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading =
+and learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+playing with it a few months ago, it has alot going for it.  Are you =
+going to embed it and interface it to the API's available so that people =
+can use it for developement within the system, or is it more an external =
+glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+5) In your event dispatch system, how do you intent to get around the =
+problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having seen this problem =
+in other systems that rely on events for inter-object comms, I am =
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.
+
+Congrats on embrassing the open source idea for your server, and I look =
+forward to messing around with the system and the source.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am quite interested in what your =
+trying to do,=20
+having played about with the ideas for one of these for more years than =
+I care=20
+to think about :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have some general questions I would =
+like to ask=20
+who ever is in the know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones=20
+:-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1)&nbsp; Are you going to add to the =
+FAQ how to=20
+build&nbsp; the stuff ? I am currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( =
+though I have=20
+a linux box also to try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths =
+coded=20
+to your environment and not within the project file, e.g. =
+whatever\nel\include=20
+is missing.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It would be useful in the FAQ if it =
+contained a=20
+list of any dependencies that the system also requires like the STL =
+code. Yeah I=20
+know its in there :-)&nbsp; But it will save you answering the same =
+question=20
+lots of time for those that don't look at the src</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) Care to release at least a rough =
+schedule on the=20
+website, so that people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are =
+going to=20
+be released ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Congrats on releasing the src early, =
+that means=20
+we can start reading and learning now before we have 1000's of files to =
+wade=20
+through.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4) very interested to see talking about =
+using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot =
+going for=20
+it.&nbsp; Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+available so=20
+that people can use it for developement within the system, or is it more =
+an=20
+external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI =
+and NPC=20
+routines</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>5) In your event dispatch system, how =
+do you intent=20
+to get around the problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having =
+seen=20
+this problem in other systems that rely on events for inter-object =
+comms, I am=20
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded=20
+round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Congrats on embrassing the open source =
+idea for=20
+your server, and&nbsp;I look forward to messing around with the system =
+and the=20
+source.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0--
+
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Mon Nov 20 10:00:55 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAK90tO95483
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+Message-ID: <004c01c052d0$3f31d700$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002e01c05232$fdcc7010$7d55fd3e@tom>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?
+Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:59:53 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+> 4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+> going for it.  Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+available so that people can use it for=20
+> developement within the system, or is it more an external glue =
+language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping > AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+Hello,=20
+I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with Pierre =
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all class that we write but because we design a multi agents =
+system, we decideded to write an script interpret for our agents =
+platform. That dicision become because in open-source platform we did'nt =
+find an embed language for prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for =
+doing that.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; 4) very interested to see talking =
+about using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; going for it.&nbsp; Are you going =
+to embed it=20
+and interface it to the API's available so that people can use it for=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; developement within the system, or =
+is it more=20
+an external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping =
+&gt; AI=20
+and NPC routines</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>
+<DIV>Hello, </DIV>
+<DIV>I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with =
+Pierre=20
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all=20
+class that&nbsp;we write but because we design a multi agents system, we =
+
+decideded to write an script interpret for our agents platform. That =
+dicision=20
+become because in open-source platform we did'nt find an =
+embed&nbsp;language for=20
+prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for doing that.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Nov 20 10:10:04 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAK9A3O95550
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:10:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA24554
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:12:58 +0100
+Message-ID: <007101c052d2$0850b290$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002e01c05232$fdcc7010$7d55fd3e@tom>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?
+Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:12:40 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>1)  Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build  the stuff ? I am
+currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to try
+this out >on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your environment
+and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include is missing.
+>It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies
+that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in there
+:-)  But it >will save you answering the same question lots of time for
+those that don't look at the src
+
+I'm working on the Visual C++ INSTALL file that explains everything you have
+to do to install and compile our project. It should be available in few
+days. (The unix one should come too in few days). But we don't plan to add
+it in the faq, we'll put it in the root directory.
+
+>3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading and
+learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+Thanks
+
+-Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Nov 20 18:00:41 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAKH0eO97811
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 18:00:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA30746
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:03:35 +0100
+Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:03:35 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts
+Message-ID: <20001120170335.P27254@nevrax.com>
+References: <20001116161216.D18243@nevrax.com> <034c01c04ff3$27559020$0400a8c0@fast> <002201c0507c$9d12b6b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20001118092303.A24033@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <20001118092303.A24033@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Thierry Mallard:
+> Just two little remarks here :
+> 
+> 1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+>    "you now have 37 HP" more than "you lost 5 HP" : one is skippable, the other
+>    is not. 
+
+As a general rule, change of state messages are always what I termed
+uncorrectable elements, while state information is, by definition,
+correctable (because you can resend the same state information at any
+time, "correcting" the error).
+
+Now, some information can be expressed in terms of either state or change
+of state. The choice of the type of communication between server and client
+must be individually chosen for most.
+
+An important point to keep in mind is that, for most state information
+which we deliver thru UDP, you are perfectly allowed to lose some
+information (since you expect it will be corrected in the near future),
+but for any specific state, you must guarantee that at least some of the
+updates are delivered properly.
+
+A good example is the "HP update" above. You may send "X now has 37 HP"
+"X now has 33 HP", "X now has 30 HP", but at some point, you need to ensure
+that the client (since we assume that the server is the one giving the state
+update) gets at least one update. So, most of these updates would be sent
+using UDP, but one out of N has to be sent using TCP to ensure guaranteed
+delivery (or, more typically, one every N seconds).
+
+> 2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+> network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+> between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But if
+> that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+
+If you use two streams, you also need to guarantee an order between both.
+It wouldn't do to receive "X has 35 HP" thru TCP and "X has 38 HP" thru UDP.
+So all state update messages also need to carry out a timestamp so that,
+when your client parses the "X has 35 HP" message because your network stack
+delivered this first, he'll be able to ignore the "X has 38 HP" one which is
+now obsolete.
+
+Oh, and I do agree. Using pure TCP frees you from the hassles of dealing
+with all that... but you relinquish a lot of control of the lag, since you
+cannot control how and when the information is retransmitted.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From roybryant@SEVENtwentyfour.com Tue Nov 21 14:08:24 2000
+Received: from mail724.SEVEN24 (mail.seventwentyfour.com [209.167.50.21])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eALD8NO04499
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:08:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from roybryant@SEVENtwentyfour.com)
+Received: by MAIL724 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
+	id <W9XJ8Y5J>; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:09:40 -0500
+Message-ID: <A6F1F91CEB6CD411B27200A0C99834D8A9A567@MAIL724>
+From: Roy Bryant <roybryant@SEVENtwentyfour.com>
+To: "'nel@nevrax.org'" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:09:37 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Subject: [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+
+    On your page http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/
+    when you click on your link to
+http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html
+    you get the error: Not found
+
+As recommended by the Robot Guidelines, this email is to explain our robot's
+activities and to let you know about one of the broken links we encountered.
+LinkWalker does not store or publish the content of your pages, but rather
+uses the link information to update our map of the World Wide Web.
+
+Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+
+Roy Bryant
+
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+ Roy Bryant, roybryant@seventwentyfour.com
+ President
+ SEVENtwentyfour Inc. ("Always watching the Web")
+ http://www.seventwentyfour.com
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Nov 21 14:15:53 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eALDFoO04550
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:15:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09213
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:18:40 +0100
+Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:18:40 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20001121131840.C5565@nevrax.com>
+References: <A6F1F91CEB6CD411B27200A0C99834D8A9A567@MAIL724>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <A6F1F91CEB6CD411B27200A0C99834D8A9A567@MAIL724>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Roy Bryant:
+> There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+> 
+>     On your page http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/
+>     when you click on your link to
+> http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html
+>     you get the error: Not found
+
+Well, there are no october archives, since these archives held only
+messages of the form "ok, ping, 1-2-3, anyone hear me?" and "do I
+receive this?".
+
+I tried to remove all traces of the october activity, but Mailman seem
+to have resurrected the links, even if the files themselves are not there,
+nor any information to recreate them.
+
+Mailman is, well, "lacking" (to put it nicely) in the documentation and
+man area.
+
+> Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+> receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+
+Most of these really are errors. That specific one is "known", and I
+have yet to figure how to remove it - Mailman recreates the link when
+a new message is received.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Wed Nov 22 17:14:03 2000
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.augur.de [194.122.160.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAMGE2O13447
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:14:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from teleaction.de (homeserver [194.122.160.76])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA14491
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:12:32 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3A1BF070.E758790A@teleaction.de>
+Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:12:32 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: ru, en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <002e01c05232$fdcc7010$7d55fd3e@tom>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Some questions about network implementation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello !
+Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+(http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/)
+It's based on Netscape Portable Runtime library (NSPR)
+and amed on creating high perfomance network applications.
+Look at documentation
+(http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html)
+From documentation:
+
+It is contained in 8 source files as opposed to more than 400, but
+provides all the
+functionality that is needed to write efficient IAs on UNIX-like
+platforms.
+
+                     NSPR       State Threads
+ Lines of code     ~150,000      ~3000
+
+ Dynamic library size
+(debug version)
+ IRIX               ~700 KB   ~60 KB
+ Linux             ~900 KB  ~70 KB
+
+State Threads is an application library which provides a foundation for
+writing Internet Applications. To summarize, it has the following
+advantages:
+
+     It allows the design of fast and highly scalable applications. An
+application will scale well with both load and number of CPUs.
+     It greatly simplifies application programming and debugging
+because, as a rule, no mutual exclusion locking is necessary and the
+entire application is free to use static variables and non-reentrant
+library functions.
+
+The library's main limitation:
+     All I/O operations on sockets must use the State Thread library's
+I/O functions because only those functions perform thread scheduling and
+prevent the application's
+     processes from blocking.
+
+
+I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+according to the above document ?
+
+
+
+From cado@nevrax.com Thu Nov 23 10:50:34 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAN9oYO18663
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:50:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01860
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:54:16 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A1CE95A.123E0AB3@nevrax.com>
+Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:54:34 +0100
+From: Olivier Cado <cado@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I)
+X-Accept-Language: fr,en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some questions about network implementation
+References: <002e01c05232$fdcc7010$7d55fd3e@tom> <3A1BF070.E758790A@teleaction.de>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello everybody !
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+> Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+> (http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/)
+>
+> I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+> according to the above document ?
+
+During the pre-production we studied various libraries, from the
+smallest to the biggest (such as ACE,
+http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html ). We didn't find the one of
+our dreams :-)
+
+At the moment we have implemented a simple networking system to work
+with our prototype that is coming soon.
+
+Thank you for your suggestion. We will study this library in detail.
+
+Regards,
+Olivier
+-- 
+Olivier Cado    ICQ: 67756413
+NEVRAX France   http://www.nevrax.com - http://www.nevrax.org
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Nov 24 20:20:40 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAOJKdO28362
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:20:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21874
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:24:19 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eAOJJZG17614
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:19:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:19:35 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20001124201935.A17529@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+The Nevrax team is please to announce, that there is some improvement on
+the GNU/Linux compilation :-)
+
+Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+
+There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+
+That's the first time that i'm playing around with automake / autoconf so
+you migth find (and you will) some ugly things. Be nice with us ... any
+suggestion will be welcome :-)
+
+
+Have fun and a nice week-end ...
+
+
+The Nevrax team.
+
+
+From stefan.nilsen@telia.com Fri Nov 24 22:19:35 2000
+Received: from d1o976.telia.com (root@d1o976.telia.com [213.64.10.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAOLJYO29034
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:19:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from stefan.nilsen@telia.com)
+Received: from wale.kunosoft.se (t2o976p105.telia.com [213.64.10.225])
+	by d1o976.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04932
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:18:09 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from wale (unknown [127.0.0.2])
+	by wale.kunosoft.se (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.0 (i386)) with SMTP id B3C672ED
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:18:07 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
+From: Stefan Nilsen <stefan.nilsen@telia.com>
+Organization: Millnet AB
+Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:18:06 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99]
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <00112422180601.09384@wale>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id eAOLJYO29034
+Subject: [Nel] error in CVS?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks 
+lika a damaged CVS repository.
+
+cvs [server aborted]: unable to parse 
+/home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v; `state' not in the expected 
+place
+
+From valignat@nevrax.com Sat Nov 25 02:12:26 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAP1CPO30961
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:12:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA23760
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:16:05 +0100
+Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:16:05 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] error in CVS?
+Message-ID: <20001125021605.A23748@nevrax.com>
+References: <00112422180601.09384@wale>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <00112422180601.09384@wale>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+> I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks 
+> lika a damaged CVS repository.
+>  [...]
+
+Ouch ... sorry.
+
+It's fixed.
+
+
+From David.Mentre@irisa.fr Tue Nov 28 11:05:51 2000
+Received: from air.irisa.fr (air.irisa.fr [131.254.60.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eASA5kO57563
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:05:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@irisa.fr)
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+	by air.irisa.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10924
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:04:18 +0100 (MET)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David.Mentre@irisa.fr (David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=)
+X-PhD-defense:  in 3 months and 0 days.
+Date: 28 Nov 2000 11:04:18 +0100
+Message-ID: <wd8wvdobefx.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Lines: 37
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.6
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all nelers,
+
+Issue:
+
+ With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+ rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+ unset include path.
+
+Solution:
+
+ Use c++ as the default compiler for TRY_COMPILE macros.
+
+Path:
+
+--- configure.in.old    Tue Nov 28 10:22:18 2000
++++ configure.in        Tue Nov 28 10:50:10 2000
+@@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
+ dnl Checks for programs.
+ 
+ AC_PROG_MAKE_SET
++AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS
+ 
+ AC_PROG_CC
+ AC_PROG_CXX
+
+
+Comment:
+
+ With this patch, configures works properly. And compilation worked
+ until my quota was full. ;)
+
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From David.Mentre@irisa.fr Tue Nov 28 11:07:09 2000
+Received: from air.irisa.fr (air.irisa.fr [131.254.60.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eASA6tO57577
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:06:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@irisa.fr)
+Received: from parate.irisa.fr (parate.irisa.fr [131.254.12.25])
+	by air.irisa.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10942
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:05:28 +0100 (MET)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David.Mentre@irisa.fr (David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=)
+X-PhD-defense:  in 3 months and 0 days.
+Date: 28 Nov 2000 11:05:27 +0100
+Message-ID: <wd8snocbee0.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Lines: 9
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.6
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] CVS checkin by email
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all,
+
+Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Nov 28 11:47:24 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eASAlOO57887
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:47:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23891
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:50:58 +0100
+Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:50:58 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] CVS checkin by email
+Message-ID: <20001128115058.B23220@nevrax.com>
+References: <wd8snocbee0.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <wd8snocbee0.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to David Mentré:
+> Hi all,
+> 
+> Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+
+Well, if you want to be spammed continuously, that might be possible.
+I'll put something in the crontab to notify you every day :)
+
+Realistically, since you get full access to the development CVS tree,
+there is something done about every day in one part or another of the
+library. We do not have anything like the cvsup of FreeBSD so that you
+automatically would fetch the latest version everytime, but you can
+set a cron job if you like to to a cvs update every day around 23:00
+GMT. That's when we do a full resynchronise of the various CVS mirrors
+(in practice, the sync starts at 22:00 GMT, but you never know how long
+rsync will take across the 3 machines involved).
+
+We will post announces when there is something relatively major commited
+(like the day you'll get your first pictures, or like we did when the
+ compilation stuff on Linux boxes started working). Usually, we also do
+a manual resync at that time.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From David.Mentre@irisa.fr Tue Nov 28 12:37:06 2000
+Received: from air.irisa.fr (air.irisa.fr [131.254.60.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eASBb6O58208
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:37:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@irisa.fr)
+Received: from parate.irisa.fr (parate.irisa.fr [131.254.12.25])
+	by air.irisa.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13810;
+	Tue, 28 Nov 2000 12:35:20 +0100 (MET)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: valignat@nevrax.com
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation
+References: <20001124201935.A17529@nevrax.com>
+From: David.Mentre@irisa.fr (David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=)
+X-PhD-defense:  in 3 months and 0 days.
+Date: 28 Nov 2000 12:35:20 +0100
+In-Reply-To: Valignat Cedric's message of "Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:19:35 +0100"
+Message-ID: <wd8y9y49vnr.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Lines: 21
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.6
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+> instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+
+Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+machine. 
+
+> There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+
+Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+megs of nel library. :)
+
+BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Nov 28 13:25:29 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eASCPTO58538
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:25:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24786
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:29:03 +0100
+Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:29:03 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation
+Message-ID: <20001128132903.A24774@nevrax.com>
+References: <20001124201935.A17529@nevrax.com> <wd8y9y49vnr.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <wd8y9y49vnr.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to David Mentré:
+> BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+> order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+
+Well, yes and no. We'd like to keep the three (or at least two, NeL plus
+the client/server) separate or semi-separate entities, so that you can
+entirely replace client and server while keeping NeL.
+
+At some time, there will probably be an overall configure script, but that
+one will merely check the various parts, then call the 3 sub-directories
+configures with its what it just found.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Nov 28 15:40:12 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eASEeCO59490
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:40:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:40:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:40:05 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux
+Message-ID: <20001128154005.A1139@nevrax.com>
+References: <wd8wvdobefx.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <wd8wvdobefx.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>; from David.Mentre@irisa.fr on Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 11:04:18AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi David,
+
+David Mentré wrote:
+> 
+> Issue:
+> 
+>  With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+>  rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+>  unset include path.
+> [...]
+
+
+We just made the changes in CVS.
+
+Thanks for your help ... :-)
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Nov 28 16:03:05 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eASF34O59669
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:03:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26456
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:06:38 +0100
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id eASF2wf01249
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:02:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:02:58 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation
+Message-ID: <20001128160257.A1187@nevrax.com>
+References: <20001124201935.A17529@nevrax.com> <wd8y9y49vnr.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <wd8y9y49vnr.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>; from David.Mentre@irisa.fr on Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 12:35:20PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+David Mentré wrote:
+> 
+> Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+> machine. 
+
+Cool ... :-)
+
+> Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+> with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+> megs of nel library. :)
+
+hehe :-)
+
+At the moment, there is nothing really usable for the client, and the
+GNU/linux OpenGL driver has to be written ...
+
+For the server part, we have few things running and the GNU/Linux configure
+setup will be done soon ...
+
+So be patient ... :-)
+
+
+Bye.
+
+
+From David.Mentre@irisa.fr Wed Nov 29 12:56:59 2000
+Received: from air.irisa.fr (air.irisa.fr [131.254.60.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATBunO66583
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:56:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@irisa.fr)
+Received: from parate.irisa.fr (parate.irisa.fr [131.254.12.25])
+	by air.irisa.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24538
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:55:21 +0100 (MET)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@irisa.fr>
+X-PhD-defense:  in 2 months and 29 days.
+Date: 29 Nov 2000 12:55:21 +0100
+Message-ID: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Lines: 29
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.6
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all,
+
+I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as "Traversers", or what
+is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+
+Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+
+For the nel guys, is there any "Global Architecture Overview" paper
+planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+read a paper describing a typical interaction: "you setup object like
+this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+need at least this and that...". It needs not to be very precise, but
+fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+
+Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+priority list. ;)
+
+Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+we could write an architecture description paper.
+
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Nov 29 13:16:13 2000
+Received: from zmail6.easynet.fr (email.easynet.fr [195.114.64.207])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id eATCGCO66705
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:16:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
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+  by mailserver.easynet.fr with QMQP; 29 Nov 2000 12:14:43 -0000
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+  by mrelay3.easynet.fr with SMTP; 29 Nov 2000 12:14:43 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:16:32 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001010
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+> 
+
+you can look at this book : 3D Game Engine Design
+by David H. Eberly
+or at this website : http://www.flipcode.com/
+
+> For the nel guys, is there any "Global Architecture Overview" paper
+> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+> read a paper describing a typical interaction: "you setup object like
+> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+> need at least this and that...". It needs not to be very precise, but
+> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+> 
+> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+> priority list. ;)
+> 
+> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+> we could write an architecture description paper.
+> 
+> 
+> d.
+
+
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Wed Nov 29 15:40:27 2000
+Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10])
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+          with ESMTP id <20001129143814.DJZL634.smtp1@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:38:14 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>
+Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:38:54 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m17) Gecko/20000811
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr> <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Distributed server algo
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+What algo will you be using?
+Will each server handle a specific cube in object space?
+
+I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is 
+possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+
+Regards,
+David
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Nov 29 15:59:43 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATExhO67513
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:59:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07030
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:03:15 +0100
+Message-ID: <003001c05a15$5fcf2d40$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:02:21 +0100
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi David,
+
+We have started a kind of "NeL Programmer Guide". You can acces it from
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html We have some topics there,
+but nothing about MOT (Model Observer Traversal) yet. The guide grow up with
+the
+code so stay tuned!
+
+For information, MOT is inspired by Java 3d architecture.
+
+Bye.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "David Mentre" <David.Mentre@irisa.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:55 PM
+Subject: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+
+
+> Hi all,
+>
+> I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+> areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as "Traversers", or what
+> is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+>
+> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+>
+> For the nel guys, is there any "Global Architecture Overview" paper
+> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+> read a paper describing a typical interaction: "you setup object like
+> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+> need at least this and that...". It needs not to be very precise, but
+> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+>
+> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+> priority list. ;)
+>
+> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+> we could write an architecture description paper.
+>
+>
+> d.
+> --
+>  David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+>  Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From David.Mentre@irisa.fr Wed Nov 29 16:15:02 2000
+Received: from air.irisa.fr (air.irisa.fr [131.254.60.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATFF2O67613
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:15:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@irisa.fr)
+Received: from parate.irisa.fr (parate.irisa.fr [131.254.12.25])
+	by air.irisa.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00649
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:13:34 +0100 (MET)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+	<003001c05a15$5fcf2d40$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@irisa.fr>
+X-PhD-defense:  in 2 months and 29 days.
+Date: 29 Nov 2000 16:13:33 +0100
+In-Reply-To: "Cyril Corvazier"'s message of "Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:02:21 +0100"
+Message-ID: <wd83dgaizfm.fsf@parate.irisa.fr>
+Lines: 16
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.6
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+"Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> We have started a kind of "NeL Programmer Guide". You can acces it from
+> http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html 
+
+I've already noticed it. :)
+
+> We have some topics there, but nothing about MOT (Model Observer
+> Traversal) yet. The guide grow up with the code so stay tuned!
+
+ok. thanks.
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From x5101920@fedro.ugr.es Wed Nov 29 20:20:14 2000
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATJKCO68780
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:20:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from x5101920@fedro.ugr.es)
+Received: (from nobody@localhost)
+	by fedro.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA29477;
+	Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:18:42 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:18:42 +0100 (MET)
+From: MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN <x5101920@fedro.ugr.es>
+Message-Id: <200011291918.UAA29477@fedro.ugr.es>
+X-Authentication-Warning: fedro.ugr.es: nobody set sender to x5101920@fedro.ugr.es using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr> <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org> <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>
+In-Reply-To: <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.11
+Subject: [Nel] Status question
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior 
+experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 
+overall project?
+
+Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+
+I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+
+
+Regards,
+Miguel
+
+BTW Have you ever though about reusing other GPL projects source?
+
+From stefan.nilsen@telia.com Wed Nov 29 22:04:29 2000
+Received: from d1o976.telia.com (root@d1o976.telia.com [213.64.10.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATL4SO69265
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:04:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from stefan.nilsen@telia.com)
+Received: from wale.kunosoft.se (t2o976p88.telia.com [213.64.10.208])
+	by d1o976.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA06478;
+	Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:02:58 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from wale (unknown [127.0.0.2])
+	by wale.kunosoft.se (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.0 (i386)) with SMTP
+	id 8F51A9F5; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 21:02:52 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
+From: Stefan Nilsen <stefan.nilsen@telia.com>
+Organization: Millnet AB
+Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:02:52 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99]
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="us-ascii"
+To: nel@nevrax.org, david.belius@chello.se
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr> <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org> <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>
+In-Reply-To: <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <00112922025200.16077@wale>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id eATL4SO69265
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Wednesday 29 November 2000 15:38, david.belius@chello.se wrote:
+> I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+> Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is
+> possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+
+WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Nov 29 22:10:12 2000
+Received: from lafontaine.cybercable.fr (lafontaine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.202])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id eATLACO69317
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:10:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
+Received: (qmail 2065169 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2000 21:08:44 -0000
+Received: from r184m194.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO cblt.org) ([195.132.184.194]) (envelope-sender <cblt@cblt.org>)
+          by lafontaine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 29 Nov 2000 21:08:44 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A2570C0.2060305@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:10:24 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001010
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr> <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org> <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se> <00112922025200.16077@wale>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+massively multiplayer online real time strategy
+(game like stracraft but massively online)
+
+> 
+> WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Wed Nov 29 23:53:06 2000
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eATMr5O69891
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:53:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tsm@IDEALX.com)
+Received: from calvin.UUCP (uucp@localhost)
+	by sarajevo.idealx.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with UUCP id eATMpBh11841
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:51:11 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from tsm by calvin.ird.IDEALX.com with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
+	id 141G3i-0002UG-00; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:50:38 +0100
+Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:50:38 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo
+Message-ID: <20001129235038.A9523@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr> <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org> <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
+	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z"
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>; from david.belius@chello.se on Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 03:38:54PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 03:38:54PM +0100, david.belius@chello.se wrote:
+> Hi,
+> i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+> What algo will you be using?
+
+Dunno if it could be related, but the word =AB distributed =BB made me flas=
+h ;-)
+I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]), with
+the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal language which d=
+oes
+has nice features about distribution. Maybe that could be worth a look,
+although I'm still not sure an interpreted language is really usable for
+something like NeL or STAGE...=20
+
+	Best regards,
+
+		Shaman
+
+[1] http://www.worldforge.org
+[2] http://www.erlang.org =20
+    http://www.erlang-fr.org (under construction)
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoliD4ACgkQGBtCB6PQIcsTzQCgz1RuIUyK+vJsab7904ivRkqz
+TsUAnRtzTz+qdhL90GIDITtRT8cAMZ8m
+=AUVC
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z--
+
+
+From David.Mentre@irisa.fr Thu Nov 30 09:01:24 2000
+Received: from air.irisa.fr (air.irisa.fr [131.254.60.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAU81OO72791
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 09:01:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@irisa.fr)
+Received: from parate.irisa.fr (parate.irisa.fr [131.254.12.25])
+	by air.irisa.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07905;
+	Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:59:55 +0100 (MET)
+To: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+Cc: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr> <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org>
+	<3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se>
+	<20001129235038.A9523@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@irisa.fr>
+X-PhD-defense:  in 2 months and 28 days.
+Date: 30 Nov 2000 08:59:54 +0100
+In-Reply-To: Thierry Mallard's message of "Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:50:38 +0100"
+Message-ID: <wd8pujdhoud.fsf_-_@parate.irisa.fr>
+Lines: 38
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.6
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com> writes:
+
+> I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]),
+> with the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal
+> language which does has nice features about distribution.
+
+You could also have a look at Objective Caml[1]. It is a functionnal
+language (ML style with type inference for those interested) but with
+modules and object oriented capabilities. It has not pre-build
+distributed facilities but toolkits have been built on it, like
+Ensemble[2].
+
+On Erlang, one thing to notice is that reliability is in charge of the
+programmer. But maybe your are involved in some other projects using
+Erlang. ;)
+
+>  Maybe that could be worth a look, although I'm still not sure an
+> interpreted language is really usable for something like NeL or
+> STAGE...
+
+OCaml can be compiled in both bytecode and native code for about any
+platform (from ARM to Alpha through x86 [2b]). And people have made
+hacks to dynamically load bytecode and native code into
+programs[3]. Also notice that bytecode is portable across platforms.
+
+Sorry if it is a bit of topic, but I could not resist for this blatant
+advertising. ;) And maybe NeL will have more that just Python support...
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+
+[1] http://caml.inria.fr/
+[2] http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/Projects/Ensemble/index.html
+[2b] http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/portability.html
+[3] http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200011/msg00180.html
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Nov 30 10:15:42 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eAU9FgO73137
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:15:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16293
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:19:13 +0100
+Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:19:13 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Status question
+Message-ID: <20001130101913.C15856@nevrax.com>
+References: <wd8hf4rhu1i.fsf@parate.irisa.fr> <3A24F3A0.7090701@cblt.org> <3A2514FE.1070600@chello.se> <200011291918.UAA29477@fedro.ugr.es>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <200011291918.UAA29477@fedro.ugr.es>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+> I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior 
+> experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 
+> overall project?
+> 
+> Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+
+None of the above? :)
+
+The game itself is somewhere between planning and alpha. We are approaching
+the date of our first internal prototype, but we know what the game itself
+is about, how it will play (in terms of game), and how we are structuring
+the NeL platform and how it is used to develop the real game.
+
+> I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+
+Depend on what you call running. You do not have a 3D scene and interface
+available yet, for example, but you have several services for the building
+of the server part.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Dec  4 16:09:59 2000
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+Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:09:23 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20001204160923.A34642@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Server on GNU/Linux
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+
+Hello everybody,
+
+At least it comes, you should be able to get something to compile and running
+under GNU/Linux platforms ...
+
+Checkout the INSTALL file, it will show you the path to follow :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Dec  8 09:49:52 2000
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:53:09 +0100
+Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:53:09 +0100
+From: Jean-Noel Moyne <jnmoyne@tibco.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Subject: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Just had a look at your site and your project because my brother is
+going to work with you guys (as a graphic artist). I see that you have
+need for fast reliable real-time asynchronous (and probably one to many)
+network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+server communication, not server to client.
+
+You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+
+While TIBCO makes a complete messaging system that will use PGM and that
+is a commercial product, we are also releasing an Open Source version of
+the PGM protocol stack (which is probably all you need, and all you
+would want to use, being an Open Source project yourself).
+
+As a suggestion from a network professional with a lot of experience
+designing large scale scalable real time oriented distributed systems,
+you should take a look at it.
+
+http://pgm.tibco.com/
+
+    JNM
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Fri Dec  8 11:41:14 2000
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.augur.de [194.122.160.1])
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+Message-ID: <3A30BA56.C7078CDD@teleaction.de>
+Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:39:18 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: ru, en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello !
+Just one question.
+
+From http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt
+>>> PGM runs over a datagram multicast protocol such as IP multicast [5].
+
+AFAIK, many ISP's ban multicast traffic and many users'll be unable to use
+software based on it.
+Am I wrong or missing something ?
+TIA
+
+--
+Dim
+
+
+Jean-Noel Moyne wrote:
+
+> Just had a look at your site and your project because my brother is
+> going to work with you guys (as a graphic artist). I see that you have
+> need for fast reliable real-time asynchronous (and probably one to many)
+> network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+> server communication, not server to client.
+>
+> You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+> protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+> design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+>
+> While TIBCO makes a complete messaging system that will use PGM and that
+> is a commercial product, we are also releasing an Open Source version of
+> the PGM protocol stack (which is probably all you need, and all you
+> would want to use, being an Open Source project yourself).
+>
+> As a suggestion from a network professional with a lot of experience
+> designing large scale scalable real time oriented distributed systems,
+> you should take a look at it.
+>
+> http://pgm.tibco.com/
+>
+>     JNM
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Dec 12 11:05:09 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:08:20 +0100
+Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:08:20 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Message-ID: <20001212110820.I2253@nevrax.com>
+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Jean-Noel Moyne:
+> You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+> protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+> design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+
+Hmmm, about everyone around started talking about, then dismissing it
+as unsuited to our needs, but that's chiefly due to one misunderstanding.
+
+At first we didn't see the "server to server" sentence.
+
+We still don't know how well multicasting can be useful in our server
+architecture, because so far, we have very few one-to-many messages
+across servers. Most services discuss with a specific target on a specific
+service.
+
+However, we still have lots of discussion for the "world service",
+i.e. the service which "simulates" the world and run the various objects
+and NPC agents. That one might be a candidate for a multicast protocol,
+since we can expect replication of objects across multiple world services.
+
+This tie in with another question which I didn't had time to reply to,
+regarding how to "split" the world across the multiple world services.
+If the split is done by geography (the UO model), then there is little
+need of a PGM-based protocol, because most objects will be accessed by
+2 world services (edges), or at most 3 (T-intersections). However, if the
+split is done instead by reference (i.e. we cluster an agent with the
+agents that refer to it more often), then we have a higher redundancy
+of agents on servers, and a multicast is probably the best method to
+send message to these agents.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Dec 12 11:07:58 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:11:10 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Message-ID: <20001212111110.J2253@nevrax.com>
+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com> <3A30BA56.C7078CDD@teleaction.de>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Dim Segebart:
+> Hello !
+> Just one question.
+> 
+> >From http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt
+> >>> PGM runs over a datagram multicast protocol such as IP multicast [5].
+> 
+> AFAIK, many ISP's ban multicast traffic and many users'll be unable to use
+> software based on it.
+> Am I wrong or missing something ?
+> TIA
+
+And Jean-Noel Moyne said:
+> network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+> server communication, not server to client.
+
+Note "server to server". What Jean-Noel was suggesting was not a protocol
+to communicate with the clients, but a protocol to communicate between
+the various servers that constitute a world cluster.
+
+Since these clusters will be located in a single facility, on a dedicated
+switch, the issue of IP filtering do not apply :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From x5101920@fedro.ugr.es Tue Dec 12 11:15:43 2000
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
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+	Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:13:59 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:13:59 +0100 (MET)
+From: MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN <x5101920@fedro.ugr.es>
+Message-Id: <200012121013.LAA12382@fedro.ugr.es>
+X-Authentication-Warning: fedro.ugr.es: nobody set sender to x5101920@fedro.ugr.es using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com> <20001212110820.I2253@nevrax.com>
+In-Reply-To: <20001212110820.I2253@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+> At first we didn't see the "server to server" sentence.
+
+Ok, I have a dummy question, but when it is better to have multicast 
+to a server delivering the messages to the rest of servers?
+
+How portable/compatible is mulitcast technology?
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Dec 12 11:33:48 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:37:00 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Message-ID: <20001212113700.M2253@nevrax.com>
+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com> <20001212110820.I2253@nevrax.com> <200012121013.LAA12382@fedro.ugr.es>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+> > At first we didn't see the "server to server" sentence.
+> 
+> Ok, I have a dummy question, but when it is better to have multicast 
+> to a server delivering the messages to the rest of servers?
+
+Quite simple: When you need to send the same message to more than one
+server. As soon as you need to send a message to multiple servers,
+you will tie up bandwidth and CPU resending the same message over and over
+to each server.
+
+Consider the following model. Each agent (which represent an object, NPC,
+PC, the door, the lamp, whatever entity in your world) is represented
+typically by an object in a "world service process". Once your world
+becomes large, you need multiple processes. What happens when an agent
+want to "talk" to another agent on a different process. The agent, in an
+ideal (and OO) world, merely talks to an object located in its process
+space, said object being either the recipient agent itself, or merely a
+replica, which will forward the message across the network to the real
+agent.
+
+You don't need multicast for that: its straight 1-to-1.
+
+However, what if the message is "what is your current XYZ". That's a fairly
+frequent question. If you need to query across the network, you'll quickly
+end up loading the net, just to find the value three variables.
+
+That's where PGM/multicast intervenes. In that model, the agent, when he
+changes some of his variables, notifies the replica that "XYZ are now...".
+I spoke about how the world services organise where an agent resides. In
+some models, you have about one, maybe two replicas, which you can notify
+using a standard TCP stream. Or RDP. But, if you want a load-balancing
+system, you quickly end up with a replica of an object in most world
+service processes. It becomes then more efficient to multicast the updates
+as above to all processes, and update them all in one sweep.
+
+> How portable/compatible is mulitcast technology?
+
+Multicast is working, right now. However, to work across separate networks,
+it requires specific support from IP routers, and resources, which most
+providers aren't willing to dedicate (multi-network multicast is mostly
+used for video/audio "broadcasts", video conferencing or shows).
+
+As for PGM, well, the current library has lots of empty directories and
+"TODO" notes in comments, so it's clearly a work in progress :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From x5101920@fedro.ugr.es Tue Dec 12 11:50:05 2000
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
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+	Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:48:18 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:48:18 +0100 (MET)
+From: MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN <x5101920@fedro.ugr.es>
+Message-Id: <200012121048.LAA17383@fedro.ugr.es>
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+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com> <20001212110820.I2253@nevrax.com> <200012121013.LAA12382@fedro.ugr.es> <20001212113700.M2253@nevrax.com>
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+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> That's where PGM/multicast intervenes. In that model, the agent, 
+when he
+> changes some of his variables, notifies the replica that "XYZ are 
+now...".
+> I spoke about how the world services organise where an agent 
+resides. In
+> some models, you have about one, maybe two replicas, which you can 
+notify
+> using a standard TCP stream. Or RDP. But, if you want a 
+load-balancing
+> system, you quickly end up with a replica of an object in most world
+> service processes. It becomes then more efficient to multicast the 
+updates
+> as above to all processes, and update them all in one sweep.
+
+Ok, I always have though of load balancing as load-work division 
+between servers.
+
+I think that the above kind of working can have several inconsistences 
+, just take a look to some distributed Mutual exclusion algos.
+
+Just imagine that both copies of a object multicast different 
+positions, you have to choose what is the best one, and whatever your 
+choose is, it will be wrong, and servers can't be wrong.
+
+Replycating work can be a real pain.
+And for what you have said multicast isn't a solution for end-users.
+
+I think that IPv6 will fix these things, by having a multicast in the 
+standart, isn't it?
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Dec 12 12:08:15 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:11:26 +0100
+Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:11:26 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Message-ID: <20001212121126.S2253@nevrax.com>
+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com> <20001212110820.I2253@nevrax.com> <200012121013.LAA12382@fedro.ugr.es> <20001212113700.M2253@nevrax.com> <200012121048.LAA17383@fedro.ugr.es>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+> Just imagine that both copies of a object multicast different 
+> positions, you have to choose what is the best one, and whatever your 
+> choose is, it will be wrong, and servers can't be wrong.
+
+Ahem, no. I might have used object and agent in various contexts, but
+an agent is the only one which is authorised to change its state. The
+other objects are "replica", or passive objects. Each agent may exist
+only as a single copy over the set of processes, and he is the entity
+responsible for updating the local states of the replica objects in
+the other processes.
+
+If you want "what is your XYZ", the local replica answers. However, if
+you want "teleport to XYZ", the message is transmitted across the network
+to the unique agent, which updates its internal state, and then retransmits
+to all replicas "set internal state XYZ". And the latter is when multicast
+helps when there are many replicas to update.
+
+> Replycating work can be a real pain.
+
+Hey, if I could buy a terahertz processor and have everything run on a
+single process, I'd be happy too :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From x5101920@fedro.ugr.es Tue Dec 12 12:22:17 2000
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBCBMGO61460
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+	Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:32 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:32 +0100 (MET)
+From: MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN <x5101920@fedro.ugr.es>
+Message-Id: <200012121120.MAA23019@fedro.ugr.es>
+X-Authentication-Warning: fedro.ugr.es: nobody set sender to x5101920@fedro.ugr.es using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <20001208095309.A21251@nevrax.com> <20001212110820.I2253@nevrax.com> <200012121013.LAA12382@fedro.ugr.es> <20001212113700.M2253@nevrax.com> <200012121048.LAA17383@fedro.ugr.es> <20001212121126.S2253@nevrax.com>
+In-Reply-To: <20001212121126.S2253@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.11
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Ahem, no. I might have used object and agent in various contexts, 
+but
+> an agent is the only one which is authorised to change its state. 
+The
+> other objects are "replica", or passive objects. Each agent may 
+exist
+> only as a single copy over the set of processes, and he is the 
+entity
+> responsible for updating the local states of the replica objects in
+> the other processes.
+>
+> If you want "what is your XYZ", the local replica answers. However, 
+if
+> you want "teleport to XYZ", the message is transmitted across the 
+network
+> to the unique agent, which updates its internal state, and then 
+retransmits
+> to all replicas "set internal state XYZ". And the latter is when 
+multicast
+> helps when there are many replicas to update.
+
+Ok, as far as I am thinking about agents, a replica only show info but 
+can't process code. So all the modificators should be send to the 
+main agent, that then update.
+
+There is still the possibility of an object to get two contradictory 
+updates at the same time. To avoid this you should order the messages, 
+something that I feel is unefficient and ugly.
+
+Just image agent is a ball, and then two user decide to kick the two 
+replica of the agent, so the replicas get the kick commnand and send 
+it to the agent.
+
+> > Replycating work can be a real pain.
+>
+> Hey, if I could buy a terahertz processor and have everything run on 
+a
+> single process, I'd be happy too :)
+
+If you need a terahertz processor to run the server, you better start 
+again the design stage.
+
+Just I want to note that replycanting the work can lead to ugly 
+things and race conditions.
+
+From David.Mentre@inria.fr Fri Dec 22 10:08:25 2000
+Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBM98P506680
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:08:25 +0100 (CET)
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+	by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) with ESMTP id eBM96f917268
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+Received: (from mentre@localhost)
+	by pochi.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) id eBM96fd09966;
+	Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:06:41 +0100
+X-Authentication-Warning: pochi.inria.fr: mentre set sender to David.Mentre@inria.fr using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@inria.fr>
+X-PhD-defense:  in 2 months and 6 days.
+Date: 22 Dec 2000 10:06:41 +0100
+Message-ID: <qtlsnngrfj2.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Lines: 29
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.4
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all nelers,
+
+There are two bugs at nevrax.org:
+
+ 1. the webmaster@nevrax.org address is invalid:
+
+... while talking to www.nevrax.org.:
+>>> RCPT To:<webmaster@nevrax.org>
+<<< 550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+
+
+ 2. the bug system is no longer working at the time of this email:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi
+Software error:
+
+Can't connect to database server. at globals.pl line 40. 
+
+For help, please send mail to the webmaster (webmaster@nevrax.org),
+giving this error message and the time and date of the error. 
+
+
+Hope it helps,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Dec 22 10:18:21 2000
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id eBM9IL506777
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:18:21 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:22:08 +0100
+Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:22:08 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20001222102208.C14561@nevrax.com>
+References: <qtlsnngrfj2.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <qtlsnngrfj2.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to David Mentre:
+> There are two bugs at nevrax.org:
+> 
+>  1. the webmaster@nevrax.org address is invalid:
+> 
+> ... while talking to www.nevrax.org.:
+> >>> RCPT To:<webmaster@nevrax.org>
+> <<< 550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+> 550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+
+Hrrrmmm? There's a comment in front of the alias (can't figure out why.
+My name's there, but it got commented out).
+
+>  2. the bug system is no longer working at the time of this email:
+> 
+> http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi
+> Software error:
+> 
+> Can't connect to database server. at globals.pl line 40. 
+
+No error messages, and the sql server went down. I'll keep an eye on it
+for today.
+
+Please note that the Nevrax offices are closed during the Christmas-New Year
+period. This list and the site shouldn't suffer, but don't expect prompt
+response to any problem or question you may raise.
+
+Happy holiday season all, and see you next century!
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Wed Jan  3 11:12:36 2001
+Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f03ACa592960
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:12:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from [193.150.204.103] by smtp1.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.02.00.00 201-232-116 license 13ed6d939a101f33a28aa8ad6d2fac65)
+          with SMTP id <20010103101001.CAIJ5273.smtp1@[193.150.204.103]>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:10:01 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A53A362.7010902@chello.se>
+Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:10:42 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m17) Gecko/20000811
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de> <3A1193B1.87FEAD95@teleaction.de> <20001115102026.A9223@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling in VC++
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+Why haven't you said that you have example game data up?!?
+
+When i tried to open the .dsw's VC++ would just say that it was a "Empty 
+workspce" with "0 projects".
+The reason for this was that all the VC++ files from the CVS are in UNIX
+format, i.e. the linefeeds are messed up.
+You should proboblay put a notice in the "Install" file about it.
+
+/David
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Jan  3 11:52:53 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f03Aqo593174
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:52:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01594
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:56:19 +0100
+Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:56:19 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling in VC++
+Message-ID: <20010103115619.S31168@nevrax.com>
+References: <051401c04c24$f1e7ae40$0400a8c0@fast> <007201c04d66$26c2fdd0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <07b701c04dba$48434d80$0400a8c0@fast> <003601c04e1a$e5e48990$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A1115AF.8EC7EE08@teleaction.de> <3A1193B1.87FEAD95@teleaction.de> <20001115102026.A9223@calvin.ird.IDEALX.com> <3A53A362.7010902@chello.se>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <3A53A362.7010902@chello.se>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to david.belius@chello.se:
+> Hi,
+> Why haven't you said that you have example game data up?!?
+
+We're still trying to finish the complete packaging for the 0.2 version
+(i.e. the first running prototype). And finding a machine to run an
+"official" server here for those who can't run server and client at home.
+
+The big announce will be made as soon as we've got time to polish that
+(and we'll probably open a download area so people without CVS can get
+ full packages at key points)
+
+> The reason for this was that all the VC++ files from the CVS are in UNIX
+> format, i.e. the linefeeds are messed up.
+
+The CVS tools should "properly" convert text files between unix/dos
+linefeed conventions. We're using WinCVS 1.1 here, and the files are
+correctly formatted while working on a windows client, and back to LF when
+commited.
+
+> You should proboblay put a notice in the "Install" file about it.
+
+We'll put a Caveat there.
+
+Oh, and by the way, happy new millenium all!
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org Wed Jan  3 21:15:49 2001
+Received: from bubastis (r179m43.cybercable.tm.fr [195.132.179.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f03KFl595813
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:15:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1006)
+	id 88ACB4EC02; Wed,  3 Jan 2001 21:14:04 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:14:04 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010103211404.A18718@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
+From: nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org (Nevrax)
+Subject: [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi, and happy new millenium to everyone!
+First I'd like to say that I'm gratly impressed by your work!
+So please do not take my comments as hard critcisms...
+
+You seem to be building everything from scratch while a quick search
+at sourceforge.net for MMORPG seems to suggest that there are plenty
+of already available material. You say that you had to work at your own
+(impressive) speed and did not want to hijack an existing project...
+But you seem to give up quite easly to good part of the GPL, you could have
+forked an existing project: the maintainer would hold no grudge against you
+as you would not take any of his/her volonteers but instead bring your team
+to some work he/she could also benefit.
+Even for low-level, everyday use classes, you seem to always invent your
+own (callbacks, smart pointers and sockets come to mind).
+I understand that your code is (honestly !) of far better quality than the
+average available crap (I also find myself to rewrite much of the code that
+I'm supposed to used) but there are exceptions (libsigc++ or any stuff from
+www.boost.org for exemple). I just hope that nevrax does not lose time because
+of a Not Invented Here syndrom...
+From the docs online I had even the impression that you wanted to use you own
+custom scripting language (for ai I think). What is wrong with Python ?
+I even thought that the stackless (especially microthreads) would be nice
+for massively numerous agents :-)
+
+
+By the way, I'm impressed by that amount of work already done, how many of
+the mythical month-man have you put in current cvs ?
+
+It is not often that I can build source code so easly on my alpha!
+You bug-fixes were really fast... (I mean FAST!)
+
+For your information, on a Debian woody, one should 'apt-get install'
+the following packages (might go in a README or INSTALL):
+automake
+libtool
+libstlport-dev
+truetype2-dev
+bison
+flex
+libfreetype6-dev
+xlibmesa-dev
+
+beta-builder, soon beta testerly yours,
+ 
+Bernard
+(typing startx right now to see the beast)
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Thu Jan  4 10:40:58 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f049ev500177
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:40:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA17442
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:44:26 +0100
+Message-ID: <016001c07632$279a2630$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010103211404.A18718@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)
+Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:38:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello, what you say is very interesting and I understand question let me
+answer to your python question you say
+
+>From the docs online I had even the impression that you wanted to use you
+own
+>custom scripting language (for ai I think). What is wrong with Python ?
+>I even thought that the stackless (especially microthreads) would be nice
+>for massively numerous agents :-)
+
+Python is a very good script language, I used it a lot for many work and i
+know it quite well, but if we use a custom scripting language that doesn't
+mean that we'll use it exclusively. On the contrary the script will allow a
+good opening to use any external script languag and we encourage that. Note
+that Nel script is an script for write agent and is an agent ortiented
+language we desigined  to lighten the design of agents and game desigin
+code.
+And it seem to be more heavy to write the Python agent interface instead of
+write the custom Nel script, due mainly to the lack of means to write agents
+connection in a classical language and secondly the need to rewirte C++ code
+for the python interface.
+
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Thu Jan  4 10:57:08 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f049v8500288
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:57:08 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17756
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:00:37 +0100
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104104606.00b446a0@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:54:54 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)
+In-Reply-To: <20010103211404.A18718@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi and Happy New Year to all NeLers !
+
+Bernard: Thanks for your comments.
+It's always nice to hear that kind of stuff. :)
+
+At 09:14 PM 1/3/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>any stuff from
+>www.boost.org
+
+We've been trying to reach boost.org since we saw your comment in the bug 
+tracking system, but it doesn't seem to respond... :(
+
+Also, would you mind configuring your email to display your name instead of 
+"Nevrax" ? It's a bit unsetteling...
+
+Thanks !
+
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jan  4 11:27:13 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f04ARD500484
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:27:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18366
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:30:41 +0100
+Message-ID: <001401c07638$b75a2bc0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010103211404.A18718@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)
+Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:25:53 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello and thank you for your post.
+
+First of all, we had the problem to know which external copyleft libraries
+we could
+use in our project. We looked at libraries such as ACE (for sockets),
+ClanLib (for
+system init), libsock++ (for sockets too), SDL and so on, but the problem
+was that these libraries did too much things or not enough. If a library
+does only a few things, we can rewrite it very quickly (with, why not,
+copy/paste)
+because we want the install very easy to do. If the user has to find and
+install
+10 libraries before starting the NeL compilation, he surely gives up. When
+the
+library does too much stuff, it often doesn't do it in the same way we want
+to do it,
+and we can only reuse a few part of the library. And in this case, it's sad
+to compile
+during 1 hour an external library for only reusing only a few functions. We
+prefer copy/pasting
+these parts directly in our lib.
+
+> I understand that your code is (honestly !) of far better quality than the
+> average available crap (I also find myself to rewrite much of the code
+that
+> I'm supposed to used) but there are exceptions (libsigc++ or any stuff
+from
+> www.boost.org for exemple). I just hope that nevrax does not lose time
+because
+> of a Not Invented Here syndrom...
+
+We'll take a look on libsigc++ and boost. we don't reinvent every thing, we
+only reuse code
+from other libraries but we don't include the entire libraries.
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org Thu Jan  4 11:43:48 2001
+Received: from bubastis (r179m43.cybercable.tm.fr [195.132.179.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f04Ahl500581
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:43:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1006)
+	id 4A30A4EC02; Thu,  4 Jan 2001 11:42:23 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:42:22 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)
+Message-ID: <20010104114222.A29311@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
+In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104104606.00b446a0@pop.nevrax.net>; from lejade@nevrax.com on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 10:54:54AM +0100
+From: nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org (Bernard Hugueney)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+You really deserve the responsiveness award !
+
+* Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com> [010104 11:04]:
+> Hi and Happy New Year to all NeLers !
+>
+> Bernard: Thanks for your comments.
+> It's always nice to hear that kind of stuff. :)
+>
+> At 09:14 PM 1/3/01 +0100, you wrote:
+> >any stuff from
+> >www.boost.org
+>
+> We've been trying to reach boost.org since we saw your comment in the bug
+> tracking system, but it doesn't seem to respond... :(
+My bad luck :-( It's the first time that it's down so long since I know it.
+I'm on their mailing list so I should know soon what is wrong.
+(While typing this mail I read
+
+   >The web site should now be available at 64.226.201.52
+   >
+   >The DNS change to resolve boost.org to that address has been  submitted to
+   >Network Solutions. I have no idea how long they will take to process it.
+   >
+on the mailing list, will teach them not to deal with NS when they could use
+GANDI :-) )
+
+their cvs is host at sourceforge http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/
+and they are an e-group www.egroups.com
+The very best C++ coders I've ever heard are there.
+
+>
+> Also, would you mind configuring your email to display your name instead of
+> "Nevrax" ? It's a bit unsetteling...
+Damn, I'll have to modify my nevrax account, sorry for the mistake,
+(modifs done)Is that ok now ?
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Thu Jan  4 12:00:41 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f04B0f500684
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:00:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc252.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18989
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:04:10 +0100
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104115651.00b09aa0@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net (Unverified)
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 11:58:27 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)
+In-Reply-To: <20010104114222.A29311@bernard-hugueney.org>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104104606.00b446a0@pop.nevrax.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At 11:42 AM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>(modifs done)Is that ok now ?
+Yes, thanks. And thanks for the pointer too !
+We'll have a look at it ASAP.
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Thu Jan  4 12:22:57 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f04BMv500799
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:26:26 +0100
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+Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:20:42 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104115651.00b09aa0@pop.nevrax.net>
+References: <20010104114222.A29311@bernard-hugueney.org>
+ <4.3.2.7.2.20010104104606.00b446a0@pop.nevrax.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Subject: [Nel] Boost.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+ From the information gathered on
+
+http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License
+
+there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and 
+the GPL.
+
+So I'm afraid this is a good reason why we can't use them in NeL, even 
+though they appear to be of very good quality. :(
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Thu Jan  4 15:37:25 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f04EbP501705
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:37:25 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:40:54 +0100
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104153407.00b0a8f0@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:35:10 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Boost.org
+In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104121630.00aaf950@pop.nevrax.net>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104115651.00b09aa0@pop.nevrax.net>
+ <20010104114222.A29311@bernard-hugueney.org>
+ <4.3.2.7.2.20010104104606.00b446a0@pop.nevrax.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At 12:20 PM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and 
+>the GPL.
+
+And then again, maybe not. :)
+We're looking into it...
+
+
+From nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org Thu Jan  4 18:55:19 2001
+Received: from bubastis (r179m43.cybercable.tm.fr [195.132.179.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f04HtH502638
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:55:18 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1006)
+	id 2435C4EC02; Thu,  4 Jan 2001 18:54:08 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:54:08 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010104185408.A1373@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
+In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104121630.00aaf950@pop.nevrax.net>; from lejade@nevrax.com on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 12:20:42PM +0100
+From: nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org (Bernard Hugueney)
+Subject: [Nel] re: Boost library
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> From the information gathered on
+>http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License
+>there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and
+>the GPL.
+
+I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think. You could not
+submit Nel for Boost acceptance, 
+<Quote>
+   To avoid the frustration and wasted time of a proposed library being
+   rejected, it must meets these requirements:
+     * The license must meet the license requirements below. Restricted
+       licenses like the GPL and LGPL are not acceptable.
+ </Quote>
+Note : "proposed library"
+No such restriction is imposed on code using a boost library: reading from
+their licenses requirement
+<Quote>
+     * Must grant permission to copy, use and modify the software for any
+       use (commercial and non-commercial) for no fee.
+</Quote>
+
+You cannot say that you are not allowed to use a library with such a
+licence (Note: ANY USE ) !!!
+
+I don't want to force you to use anything from boost, I just would want you
+to dismiss it for bad reasons. As a C++ coder, I found it invaluable
+(just for fun you migh look at the lambda library at http://lambda.cs.utu.fi/
+I never thought it would be possible). Of course their aim to "perfection"
+leads them to move slowly at time (network threads are not there yet...), and
+their advanced use of C++ clashes with crappy compiler (VC++). But if you
+can use it, their stuff really shines. I have not tested their py_cpp
+c++ to python wrapper, but I though you might be interested.
+
+Happy coding !
+Bernard
+(kinda jealous not to code for my living)
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Thu Jan  4 19:17:48 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f04IHm502757
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:17:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26197
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:21:16 +0100
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104185920.00b0a700@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:15:31 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] re: Boost library
+In-Reply-To: <20010104185408.A1373@bernard-hugueney.org>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104121630.00aaf950@pop.nevrax.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At 06:54 PM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+>library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think.
+
+Yes, this is what I noticed afterwards. :P
+Hence my "maybe not" post.
+Anyways, thanks for the clarification and now that the license issue is 
+cleared, rest assured we'll pay closer attentions to the libs.
+
+>I don't want to force you to use anything from boost, I just would want you
+>to dismiss it for bad reasons.
+
+Arg, it wasn't my intent !
+At first reading I just thought there was licensing compatibilities issues 
+that prevented the use of the libs for GPL/LGP programs. My bad: I was 
+wrong. But it sure would be nice to incorporate Boost stuff if we can !
+Actually, Cyrille (3D Lead) went to school with one of the Boost guys... :)
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Fri Jan  5 04:17:31 2001
+Received: from baldur (mail@[63.205.226.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f053HU505682
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 04:17:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur
+	([127.0.0.1] helo=in-orbit.net ident=michael)
+	by baldur with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1 (Debian))
+	id 14ENT7-0002of-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:23:05 -0800
+Message-ID: <3A553E18.844ECA22@in-orbit.net>
+Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:23:04 -0800
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0-prerelease i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+the debian packages for all requirements are installed- stlport has been
+installed from source over the debian version to get the nebula device
+(radonlabs.de) to work.
+
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/include/freetype2
+-I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2 -Wp,-MD,.deps/mini_col.pp -c mini_col.cpp
+-fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mini_col.lo
+In file included from ../../include/nel/3d/mini_col.h:33,
+                 from mini_col.cpp:26:
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `class
+NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator
+NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::erase(NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator)':
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h:402: parse error before `*'
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CQuadGrid<NL3D::CMiniCol::CFace>::selectAll()':
+
+any ideas?
+
+michael warnock
+in orbit entertainment
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Jan  5 09:54:38 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f058sb507198
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:54:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc23 (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01806
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:58:05 +0100
+Message-ID: <000e01c076f4$f3f52140$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A553E18.844ECA22@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux
+Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:53:19 +0100
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/include/freetype2
+> -I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2 -Wp,-MD,.deps/mini_col.pp -c mini_col.cpp
+> -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mini_col.lo
+> In file included from ../../include/nel/3d/mini_col.h:33,
+>                  from mini_col.cpp:26:
+> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `class
+> NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator
+> NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::erase(NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator)':
+> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h:402: parse error before `*'
+> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `void
+> NL3D::CQuadGrid<NL3D::CMiniCol::CFace>::selectAll()':
+>
+> any ideas?
+
+This bug has been fixed yesterday evening. The cvs is synchronized at night.
+So if you update now, it should be ok.
+
+Thank you for the report.
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Jan  5 10:36:26 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f059aQ507437
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:36:26 +0100 (CET)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02603
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:39:53 +0100
+Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:39:53 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] re: Boost library
+Message-ID: <20010105103953.A2122@nevrax.com>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104121630.00aaf950@pop.nevrax.net> <20010104185408.A1373@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Bernard Hugueney:
+> I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+> library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think. You could not
+> submit Nel for Boost acceptance, 
+
+Well, the same problem applies in the reverse. Libraries in Boost are
+not covered by a GPL-style license. Which means that they cannot be
+lifted verbatim from the Boost collection and incorporated in ours
+without a lot of precautions.
+
+Just like someone cannot take a GPL piece of software and turn it into
+a BSD-licensed software, one cannot lift a BSD-style software and put it
+into a GPL project. The licenses are "orthogonal" in style, and you
+cannot decide on your own to alter the license; only the copyright owner
+may do so.
+
+The license styles from Boost (the ones I've looked at so far, boost.org
+is unresolvable at the moment) would prevent us from incoporating them
+in NeL. We *might* be able to use them side-by-side, asking people to get
+them (and provide mirrors) and compile them separately, but they cannot
+be *part* of NeL.
+
+> <Quote>
+>      * Must grant permission to copy, use and modify the software for any
+>        use (commercial and non-commercial) for no fee.
+> </Quote>
+> 
+> You cannot say that you are not allowed to use a library with such a
+> licence (Note: ANY USE ) !!!
+
+The GPL is better worded in that regard; it says for no fee exceeding
+the cost of support and shipping (meaning I'm am not obliged to *pay* for
+*your* copy).
+
+> leads them to move slowly at time (network threads are not there yet...), and
+> their advanced use of C++ clashes with crappy compiler (VC++). But if you
+
+Well, we also have to use VC++. The compiler quirks may drive us crazy
+with all its "let's not bother the developper with clarity, I'll guess
+what he wants to do" philosophy, but there aren't many useful C++
+development environments when you're working on a Windows system.
+
+> Happy coding !
+> Bernard
+> (kinda jealous not to code for my living)
+
+Many of us code for a living. We just don't code what we'd really love
+to code :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Jan  5 10:56:59 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f059ux507546
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:56:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03015
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:00:26 +0100
+Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:00:26 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] re: Boost library
+Message-ID: <20010105110026.D2122@nevrax.com>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010104121630.00aaf950@pop.nevrax.net> <20010104185408.A1373@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010105103953.A2122@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <20010105103953.A2122@nevrax.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Vincent Archer:
+> a BSD-licensed software, one cannot lift a BSD-style software and put it
+> into a GPL project. The licenses are "orthogonal" in style, and you
+> cannot decide on your own to alter the license; only the copyright owner
+> may do so.
+
+A little precision on this subject.
+
+I was about immediately bashed on the head for my old-timer attitudes.
+The arguments I raise mostly apply to the so-called "original BSD
+license", which had relatively strict advertising clauses on it which
+are incompatible with GPL. But for some reason, my brain is still locked
+in the 10-years-ago mode, and I don't think I'll ever shake it out 'till
+retirement home.
+
+The recent BSD licenses let you mix things with GPL. So, we can't
+incorporate Boost libraries into NeL, but we can happily get them, and
+use them, just like we use FreeType and the like.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Sat Jan  6 01:58:40 2001
+Received: from pctest (mail@[63.205.226.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f060wd512293
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 01:58:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
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+	([127.0.0.1] helo=in-orbit.net ident=michael)
+	by pctest with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1 (Debian))
+	id 14EhmE-0004gs-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:04:10 -0800
+Message-ID: <3A566F0A.11369158@in-orbit.net>
+Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:04:10 -0800
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0-prerelease i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)
+References: <3A553E18.844ECA22@in-orbit.net> <000e01c076f4$f3f52140$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>
+
+Thanx for the quick fix!
+
+here's another bug:
+same debian 2.2 (stlport 4.1 now)
+
+making the client:
+
+c++ -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2  -o client  client.o
+language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o
+player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o -lnelnet
+-lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/lib -lfreetype -lstlport_gcc
+zone_manager.o: In function `NLMISC::IRunnable type_info function':
+/usr/include/stlport/iostream(.text+0x0): multiple definition of
+`NLMISC::IThread::create(NLMISC::IRunnable *)'
+client.o(.text+0x0):/usr/include/stlport/stl/_construct.h: first defined here
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+make[2]: *** [client] Error 1
+
+we got all the servers running with code from the last hour or so.
+
+michael
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Sat Jan  6 02:38:08 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net (qmailr@[63.205.226.189])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f061c7512915
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+  by 63.205.226.189 with SMTP; 6 Jan 2001 01:37:31 -0000
+Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:35:04 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <132578597238.20010105173504@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+We're experimenting with NEL, great work :)  We are
+developing an MMRPG called "Warp Storm" and subscribe
+to the Open Source development model.  Our company
+and game is born from an GPL'ed project I've been
+leading since 1998 called Bang formerly known as
+JavaMOO.  Now we have a funded development effort
+going and have offices in San Francisco and Reykjavík,
+Iceland.
+
+We are considering assigning few full time programmers
+helping expanding the NEL code-base.
+
+I've gathered that there is support for .3ds for objects
+and .bmp for textures.  Is this correct?
+
+Is there any animation support?
+
+In what format is the landscape data tiles?
+
+Do you have an example of a config file for the
+client?
+
+What glues .3ds object files to the landscape
+data?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+robofly@in-orbit.net
+
+President, InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+http://www.in-orbit.net/
+http://this.is/bang/
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Jan  8 11:34:47 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f08AYl531411
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:34:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07981
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:38:09 +0100
+Message-ID: <007901c0795e$71ecb980$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <132578597238.20010105173504@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:33:31 +0100
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi, and welcome on the NeL list.
+
+> I've gathered that there is support for .3ds for objects
+> and .bmp for textures.  Is this correct?
+
+> In what format is the landscape data tiles?
+
+> What glues .3ds object files to the landscape
+> data?
+
+NeL library supports only .tga file format and .dds (direct draw surface)
+for texture compression (DXTC1, 3 and 5).
+
+The NeL's way to load 3d data is the following:
+NeL only reads NeL binary files (like .shape, .bank or .zone). No support
+for .3ds files will be provided by Nevrax.
+The reason is .3ds is an old file format, and many new features simply don't
+exist in it. (vertex weigting, multiple UV by
+vertex, patches, vertex color ).
+It's easy to build and save NeL data. You only have to write a data
+converter or an export plugin for your
+3d editor linked with NeL. A paper about 'how to deal with NeL data' will
+come soon in the NeL documentation.
+
+At Nevrax, we use a set of crude plugins for 3dsmax builded with NeL, but we
+can't distribute them for the moment.
+
+> Is there any animation support?
+
+Support for animation is planed for sure. Those features will be implemented
+in NeL:
+
+ * Hierarchical animations.
+ * Skinning (with T&L support).
+ * Morphing (blend shape).
+ * IK solver (position constraints only).
+ * Animation layers (merge of weighted animations with IK constraints).
+
+> Do you have an example of a config file for the
+> client?
+
+I let my co-workers respond to this question.
+
+Thanks for your interest in the NeL project.
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan  8 11:49:47 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f08Anl531595
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA08345
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:53:10 +0100
+Message-ID: <003301c07960$8b4f3860$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <132578597238.20010105173504@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:48:32 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+I m one of those co-workers and I'll answer your last question :)
+
+> Do you have an example of a config file for the
+> client?
+
+yes we have example of config file.
+in the generated doc, here:
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/class_NLMISC__CConfigFile.html
+you ll find an example of config file and a sample of code that use it.
+
+we already use the config file in the client, look client.cpp and search
+CConfigFile ;-)
+
+it's really quite easy to use, not very flexible but the reason is that we
+use lex&yacc so
+we can't do all we wanted (like rewrite config file)
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan  8 12:17:03 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f08BH2531789
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:17:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:20:25 +0100
+Message-ID: <004e01c07964$5a15c300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <132578597238.20010105173504@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:15:48 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+hello again,
+
+Just a question, why do you want the client config file?
+The client automatically create the config file if the config file is not
+found.
+Anyway, you *can't* run the client because game data are not available for
+now.
+(you should wait few weeks ;-)
+
+vianney
+
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Mon Jan  8 20:06:59 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net (qmailr@[63.205.226.189])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f08J6w534077
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:06:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robofly@in-orbit.net)
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+Received: from unknown (HELO ROBOT.in-orbit.org) (63.205.226.188)
+  by 63.205.226.189 with SMTP; 8 Jan 2001 19:06:41 -0000
+Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:03:49 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <8938274796.20010108110349@in-orbit.net>
+To: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+CC: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+In-reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010108115222.00b599b0@pop.nevrax.net>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010108115222.00b599b0@pop.nevrax.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Olivier,
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 3:08:59 AM, you wrote:
+OL> How is your organisation working ? What is the task of each office ?
+OL> How much funding did you receive ? Why did you head for San Fransisco ? 
+
+Here is how our organization works:
+We have a management team of 8 people:
+President/Director, CFO, Producer, Lead World
+Builder/Lead Writer, Production Manager, VP of
+Computer Graphics, Lead Graphics Designer and
+Lead Animator.
+
+We have a Concept & Illustration team of 6
+full time people.  This team is creating the
+look of the Warp Storm universe.
+
+We have a Computer Graphics team of 5 full time
+people.  This teams includes Donald Graham who
+did for an example the first 3D model of the
+International Space Station for NASA and Jim Citron
+who was the Technical Director for Tippett studios
+and worked for example on Starship Troopers,
+Armageddon and Godzilla.
+
+We have a Game Mechanics team of 3 full time
+people.  This team is responsible for designed
+the complex skill based role-playing system
+for Warp Storm.
+
+We have programming team of 4 full time
+programmers.  This team is currently focusing
+on the game mechanics and evaluating different
+Open Source technologies that we are considering
+for the Warp Storm platform.
+
+Currently we only have 3 employees in Reykjavík,
+Iceland.  Our CFO, Lead Graphics Designer and
+Interface Designer are working out of Reykjavík
+the rest of the team is working out of San
+Francisco.
+
+We have received $760.000 in seed funding,
+this investments is all from Icelandic
+sources.  We are in the progress of opening
+our 1st Round of financing and plan to raise
+$6.000.000 from sources here in the USA.
+
+The reason for why we choose San Francisco
+are: I worked here in 1996/1997 for a company
+now called http://www.smartvr.com/ and I
+made a lot of connections here then.  It is
+relatively easy to get high quality illustrators
+and CG people here.
+
+OL> That would be nice. We'd have to find a working methodology though: we
+OL> didn't expect other gaming companies to jump in so soon,  even though it 
+OL> was inevitable in the long term.
+
+We would very much like to figure out the best way for
+us to work together.
+
+OL> How many programmers is there in your dev team ?
+
+We currently have only 4 programmers but we are looking
+for 2 right now and will be looking for over 10 when
+we receive our 1st round of financing.
+
+We have a prototype written in Java3D that has
+been active since 1998.  We have a more recent prototype
+that helped us secure our seed funding written in C++
+that uses Crystal Space for the rendering part.
+
+Currently, Dmitry, our lead programmer is working on
+creating a prototype using NeL as the net platform and
+using the Nebula Device for 3D rendering.   Nebula has a
+bunch of advanced 3D stuff, you can check it out at
+http://www.radonlabs.de/ or
+http://sourceforge.net/projects/nebuladevice/
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+robofly@in-orbit.net
+
+President, InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+http://www.in-orbit.net
+
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Mon Jan  8 20:19:52 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net (qmailr@[63.205.226.189])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f08JJp534149
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+  by 63.205.226.189 with SMTP; 8 Jan 2001 19:19:30 -0000
+Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:16:45 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <6239051603.20010108111645@in-orbit.net>
+To: Vianney Lecroart <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+In-reply-To: <004e01c07964$5a15c300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+References: <132578597238.20010105173504@in-orbit.net>
+ <004e01c07964$5a15c300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Vianney,
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 3:15:48 AM, you wrote:
+VL> Just a question, why do you want the client config file?
+VL> The client automatically create the config file if the config file is not
+VL> found.
+
+I just wanted it to see what initial configuration
+elements you were using.  I wanted this to gain
+better understanding of the NeL platform.  I had already
+taken a look at the link you sent me earlier and
+it does not reveal anything about the actual content
+of the config file.
+
+VL> Anyway, you *can't* run the client because game data are not available for
+VL> now.
+VL> (you should wait few weeks ;-)
+
+Why did you decide to release NeL as an Open Source
+project on the Internet if there is no way to
+run it once compiled?
+
+We have a lot of game assets ready that we would
+love to test out in the NeL engine.  We use mostly
+Maya for our content but we have a couple of 3D Max
+licences as well.  Our content currently includes;
+textured characters with animations, buildings,
+props, height maps and landscape textures.
+
+Warm regard,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+robofly@in-orbit.net
+
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Mon Jan  8 20:25:55 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net (qmailr@[63.205.226.189])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f08JPs534200
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:25:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robofly@in-orbit.net)
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+  by 63.205.226.189 with SMTP; 8 Jan 2001 19:25:40 -0000
+Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:22:56 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <1739422476.20010108112256@in-orbit.net>
+To: Cyril Corvazier <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+In-reply-To: <007901c0795e$71ecb980$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+References: <132578597238.20010105173504@in-orbit.net>
+ <007901c0795e$71ecb980$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Cyril,
+
+Thanks for the info :)
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 2:33:31 AM, you wrote:
+CC> At Nevrax, we use a set of crude plugins for 3dsmax builded with NeL, but we
+CC> can't distribute them for the moment.
+
+Are those plugins going to be Open Source? If not, is there
+any change of buying them of you, even if they are in a
+crude stage?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan  9 17:39:32 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f09GdW540580
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:39:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:37:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:37:31 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010109173731.A37182@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] NeL compilation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Everybody,
+
+
+Yesterday we've integrated the AI code to NeL and it breaks the GNU/Linux
+compilation :-(
+
+We are working on it and it should be fix soon ...
+
+
+Sorry about that,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan  9 17:45:27 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f09GjQ540631
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:45:26 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:48:47 +0100
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:43:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:43:26 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)
+Message-ID: <20010109174326.A34650@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010103211404.A18718@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010103211404.A18718@bernard-hugueney.org>; from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 09:14:04PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Bernard,
+
+Nevrax wrote:
+>
+> It is not often that I can build source code so easly on my alpha!
+
+Nice to ear that :-)
+
+> You bug-fixes were really fast... (I mean FAST!)
+
+My response wasn't that fast ... sorry :-)
+
+
+> For your information, on a Debian woody, one should 'apt-get install'
+> the following packages (might go in a README or INSTALL):
+> [...]
+
+I updated the NeL's INSTALL file as you suggest it ... thanks.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Jan  9 18:23:56 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f09HNt540819
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:23:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00509
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:27:16 +0100
+Message-ID: <00ba01c07a60$c6144480$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <132578597238.20010105173504@in-orbit.net><004e01c07964$5a15c300$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <6239051603.20010108111645@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:22:42 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Robert,
+
+> I just wanted it to see what initial configuration
+> elements you were using.  I wanted this to gain
+> better understanding of the NeL platform.  I had already
+> taken a look at the link you sent me earlier and
+> it does not reveal anything about the actual content
+> of the config file.
+
+okay, next is the content of our current config file, hope it s what you
+wanted:
+---- start of client.cfg
+// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+
+FullScreen = 1;    // 1 = yes
+Width = 800;
+Height = 600;
+Depth = 32;
+Position = { 819.269836, -738.062500, 8.277040 };    // the last position on
+the world (just for prototype)
+Heading = { 0.882310, -0.470668, 0.0 };    // the last direction of the head
+Background = { 100, 100, 255 }; // color of the background (temporary, we
+wait the sky ;)
+DataPath = "\\server\gamedata\data/;    // path of where the data are
+FontPath = "\\server\code\fonts\arialuni.ttf;  // the font used in the
+client (will change)
+LanguageIndex = 1;
+LSHost = "pc38"; // our login service server
+Login = "foo"; // my login
+Password = "bar";    // ... i know, it s not crypted :(
+ShardIP = "192.168.1.38"; // the last selected shard
+CharacterIndex = 0; // the player character (between 2 possibilities)
+---- end of client.cfg
+
+> Why did you decide to release NeL as an Open Source
+> project on the Internet if there is no way to
+> run it once compiled?
+
+Don't forget that it's a quite young project
+and we need time to give some examples and stuff.
+We are currently working on a small sample world to give the community
+something to kick around and showcase what NeL can do.
+We'll release it next week so please be a little patient.
+Of course this example will have nothing to do with our final game.
+Its main use is to help us to test our library and test our team production
+pipelines.
+
+But, as you said below, you could use NeL with your own data: you don't
+*have* to wait for us to provide it !
+
+> We have a lot of game assets ready that we would
+> love to test out in the NeL engine.  We use mostly
+> Maya for our content but we have a couple of 3D Max
+> licences as well.  Our content currently includes;
+> textured characters with animations, buildings,
+> props, height maps and landscape textures.
+
+Great! The only potential problem could be for exporting datas.
+But it would be neat if you wrote an export pluggin for Maya,
+and we'd love to have another example of a program using NeL.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From francois.perichon@inzebox.com Thu Jan 11 16:10:52 2001
+Received: from oxera.wanadoo.fr (smtp-rt-13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.223] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0BFAm555034
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:10:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from francois.perichon@inzebox.com)
+Received: from antholoma.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.153) by oxera.wanadoo.fr; 11 Jan 2001 16:08:44 +0100
+Received: from smtp.wanadoo.fr (193.253.249.173) by antholoma.wanadoo.fr; 11 Jan 2001 16:08:43 +0100
+Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:13:25 +0100
+From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?= <francois.perichon@inzebox.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010111161325.A15929@barjackland>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Mailer: Balsa 1.0.pre5
+Subject: [Nel] mesa3D
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+What version do i need?
+Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL files.
+
+-- 
+François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+lebarjack@inzebox.com
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Jan 11 17:19:12 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0BGJC555375
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:19:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04944
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:22:29 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f0BGIeu01402
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] mesa3D
+Message-ID: <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010111161325.A15929@barjackland>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010111161325.A15929@barjackland>; from francois.perichon@inzebox.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 04:13:25PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Francois,
+
+François Périchon wrote:
+> It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> What version do i need?
+
+We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+
+Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+
+> Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL files.
+
+I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on tonigth
+on the public CVS.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org Thu Jan 11 19:55:28 2001
+Received: from bubastis (r179m43.cybercable.tm.fr [195.132.179.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0BItR556306
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:55:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1006)
+	id 771D54EC02; Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:53:29 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:53:28 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] mesa3D
+Message-ID: <20010111195328.A361@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
+From: nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org (Bernard Hugueney)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+In-Reply-To: <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 05:18:40PM +0100
+* Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com> [010111 19:18]:
+
+> Hello Francois,
+>
+> FranBmPis PBqSichon wrote:
+> > It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> > What version do i need?
+>
+> We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+
+I must say that for once, Debian unstable is not up to date.
+I've been left behind recently, even with latest (today's!) xlibmesa-dev :-(
+Just when I bought those extra 128 Mo that 'd have allowed me to compile Nel
+AND move he mouse cursor :-(
+And lanch ddd on the servers because they segfaulted on startup here :-(
+
+I've no relevent version number as debian seem to sync them with XFree's:
+
+bubastis:~# dpkg -p xlibmesa-dev |fgrep Version
+Version: 4.0.2-1
+
+bubastis:~# dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h
+/usr/include/GL/glext.h
+but 
+bubastis:~# fgrep GL_GLEXT_VERSION `dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h`
+#define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+which does not plese Nel :-((
+
+Not your fault As I think one ought to be on the bleeding edge when developping
+or your behind when releasing...
+
+I hope to catch up soon...
+
+Bernard
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Jan 12 12:02:53 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0CB2r401233
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f0CB2Gu05894
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:02:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:01:36 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] mesa3D
+Message-ID: <20010112120135.A5615@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010111195328.A361@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010111195328.A361@bernard-hugueney.org>; from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 07:53:28PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Bernard,
+
+Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> 
+> I must say that for once, Debian unstable is not up to date.
+> I've been left behind recently, even with latest (today's!) xlibmesa-dev :-(
+
+Ouch !...
+
+> Just when I bought those extra 128 Mo that 'd have allowed me to compile Nel
+> AND move he mouse cursor :-(
+
+How much RAM did you have, before, to run X ? :-P
+
+> And lanch ddd on the servers because they segfaulted on startup here :-(
+
+Did you get any error messages ?
+
+The servers are, actually, made in a way that they print an error message and
+create a core files if there is a problem, that's help us to debug them ...
+
+> I've no relevent version number as debian seem to sync them with XFree's:
+> 
+> bubastis:~# dpkg -p xlibmesa-dev |fgrep Version
+> Version: 4.0.2-1
+> 
+> bubastis:~# dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h
+> /usr/include/GL/glext.h
+> but 
+> bubastis:~# fgrep GL_GLEXT_VERSION `dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h`
+> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+> which does not plese Nel :-((
+
+The Mesa's rpm that we used is the 3.3-5 version and it use the version 7
+of GL/glext.h. We didn't test it with any other version of mesa yet, but you
+could try to download the lastest version of GL/glext.h at
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h and recompile NeL.
+
+An other solution is to remove the GL_GLEXT_VERSION checking in the 
+configure.in file and in the src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.h
+file and try to recompile NeL ...
+
+I hope that could help you to fixed your problem ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Sun Jan 14 05:52:55 2001
+Received: from mongoose.slip.net (nfeed1.sntccaidc.firstworld.net [216.127.92.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0E4qs415699
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 14 Jan 2001 05:52:55 +0100 (CET)
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+	id 14Hf7y-0003Yk-00
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:50:51 -0800
+Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:49:54 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.48f) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091
+Organization: IOE
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <762431376.20010113204954@in-orbit.net>
+To: Valignat Cedric <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff
+In-reply-To: <20010112120135.A5615@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010111195328.A361@bernard-hugueney.org>
+ <20010112120135.A5615@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Vianney,
+
+VC> okay, next is the content of our current config file, hope it s what you
+VC> wanted:
+
+Thanks :)  I like the way you have the config files
+created automaticly, I just hadn't looked in the
+right place...
+
+VC> Don't forget that it's a quite young project
+VC> and we need time to give some examples and stuff.
+VC> We are currently working on a small sample world to give the community
+VC> something to kick around and showcase what NeL can do.
+VC> We'll release it next week so please be a little patient.
+VC> Of course this example will have nothing to do with our final game.
+VC> Its main use is to help us to test our library and test our team production
+VC> pipelines.
+
+I appolagice for my tone of voice before, I really
+appricate your effort and think your doing a great
+job.
+
+VC> Great! The only potential problem could be for exporting datas.
+VC> But it would be neat if you wrote an export pluggin for Maya,
+VC> and we'd love to have another example of a program using NeL.
+
+We've already started to work on a plugin, written in MEL Script,
+using info gathered from the source code distribution.
+Do you have any formal documents on the different fileformats?
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Mon Jan 15 05:29:25 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0F4TN422471
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:29:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robofly@in-orbit.net)
+Received: (qmail 27105 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2001 04:26:36 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO PCTEST.in-orbit.org) (63.205.226.188)
+  by 192.168.1.10 with SMTP; 15 Jan 2001 04:26:36 -0000
+Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:26:32 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <5425941091.20010114202632@in-orbit.net>
+To: lecroart@nevrax.com
+CC: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Maya plugin issues
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+I've been looking into writing a Maya plugin.
+What I understand so far is the following,
+please correct me if I'm wrong.
+
+-There are no specific fileformats for NeL,
+only different serialized objects like
+CZone, CShape(Stream), CMesh and others.
+
+-We would probably use the Maya API and
+write a C++ plugin for Maya instead of
+a MEL script.
+
+-I will have to convert the NURBS based
+Maya curves into 3DSMax based Bezier
+Pathces.
+
+This is really exciting. Now we can
+really integrate functions in Maya
+for bump-mapping and things like that.
+And this will be a plugin that creates
+ready to use NeL objects instead of
+some kind of an endless conversion
+madness :)
+
+If anybody has some code already written
+for either the Maya or NeL part of such
+a plugin, please let me know.  Our plugin
+will will be released under the GPL.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+From francois.perichon@inzebox.com Mon Jan 15 12:39:49 2001
+Received: from anagyris.wanadoo.fr (smtp-rt-1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.151])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0FBdm424614
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:39:49 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from francois.perichon@inzebox.com)
+Received: from villosa.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.122) by anagyris.wanadoo.fr; 15 Jan 2001 12:37:38 +0100
+Received: from smtp.wanadoo.fr (193.253.211.247) by villosa.wanadoo.fr; 15 Jan 2001 12:37:31 +0100
+Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:42:46 +0100
+From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?= <francois.perichon@inzebox.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] mesa3D
+Message-ID: <20010115124246.A31297@barjackland>
+References: <20010111161325.A15929@barjackland> <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+In-Reply-To: <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 17:18:40 +0100
+X-Mailer: Balsa 1.0.pre5
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I used the mesa 3.2 which comes with the unstable debian.
+On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> Hello Francois,
+> 
+> François Périchon wrote:
+> > It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> > What version do i need?
+> 
+> We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+> 
+> Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+> to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+> 
+> > Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL
+> files.
+> 
+> I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on
+> tonigth
+> on the public CVS.
+> 
+> Thanks,
+> 
+> Cedric.
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+
+-- 
+François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+lebarjack@inzebox.com
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+From bernard@bernard-hugueney.org Wed Jan 17 01:55:23 2001
+Received: from bubastis (r179m43.cybercable.tm.fr [195.132.179.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0H0tM435999
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:55:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from bernard@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1000)
+	id 8FF094EC02; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:52:06 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:52:06 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] mesa3D
+Message-ID: <20010117015206.A6876@bernard-hugueney.org>
+References: <20010111161325.A15929@barjackland> <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com> <20010115124246.A31297@barjackland>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
+In-Reply-To: <20010115124246.A31297@barjackland>; from francois.perichon@inzebox.com on Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 12:42:46PM +0100
+From: bernard@bernard-hugueney.org (Debian User)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+I reported my disappointment in a previous post when I saw that up to date
+ unstable Debian seemed not current enough for NeL.
+I decided to get the latest release from www.mesa3d.org.
+It was 3.4 but include/GL/glext.h seemed not current enough according to
+the test of GL_GLEXT_VERSION  :-(( (I have 6, requested is 7)
+So I decided to browse the CVS (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/Mesa/include/GL/glext.h?rev=1.31&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=mesa3d ) and here is what I found:
+
+Revision 1.31, Sat Jan 6 22:46:13 2001 UTC (10 days, 1 hour ago) by
+   gareth
+  Branch: MAIN
+  CVS Tags: HEAD
+  Changes since 1.30: +9 -4 lines
+Implementation of GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3.
+...
+  /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+#define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+ 
+???
+You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+
+Btw, I tried to fake a correct GL_GLEXT_VERSION but compile fails later
+:-(((
+
+I hope to be able to compile NeL again soon ...
+
+Bernard
+
+
+* Fran?ois P?richon <francois.perichon@inzebox.com> [010115 18:41]:
+> I used the mesa 3.2 which comes with the unstable debian.
+> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> > Hello Francois,
+> > 
+> > François Périchon wrote:
+> > > It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> > > What version do i need?
+> > 
+> > We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+> > 
+> > Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+> > to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+> > 
+> > > Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL
+> > files.
+> > 
+> > I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on
+> > tonigth
+> > on the public CVS.
+> > 
+> > Thanks,
+> > 
+> > Cedric.
+> > 
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> > 
+> > 
+> 
+> -- 
+> François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+> francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+> lebarjack@inzebox.com
+> 36, rue de la clef
+> 59800 Lille
+> France
+> Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+> Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Jan 17 10:02:16 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0H92D438575
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:02:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09694
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:06:01 +0100
+Message-ID: <003601c08064$070ea8a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010111161325.A15929@barjackland> <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com> <20010115124246.A31297@barjackland> <20010117015206.A6876@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] mesa3D
+Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:01:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+>   /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+>
+> ???
+> You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+>
+> Btw, I tried to fake a correct GL_GLEXT_VERSION but compile fails later
+> :-(((
+>
+> I hope to be able to compile NeL again soon ...
+>
+> Bernard
+
+In fact, it's Mesa that is not synchronized with the official sgi
+extensions.
+You have to get the last glext.h from sgi:
+
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+and it will be ok (we ll add this to the INSTALL file)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From francois.perichon@inzebox.com Wed Jan 17 12:43:33 2001
+Received: from areca.wanadoo.fr (smtp-rt-4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.156])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0HBhS439306
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:43:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from francois.perichon@inzebox.com)
+Received: from amyris.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.150) by areca.wanadoo.fr; 17 Jan 2001 12:41:23 +0100
+Received: from smtp.wanadoo.fr (193.253.211.247) by amyris.wanadoo.fr; 17 Jan 2001 12:41:22 +0100
+Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:46:53 +0100
+From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?= <francois.perichon@inzebox.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010117124653.A31099@barjackland>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Mailer: Balsa 1.0.pre5
+Subject: [Nel] opengl problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+I finally made it with the mesa3D 3.3, the last glext.h from sgi, the
+correct stlport, and so on.
+I './configure' without any problems (I set  the --with-stlport,
+--with-stllib, and th --with-python)
+When making the opengl driver i end with this error :
+
+In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used to
+declare any objects
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:274: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `SrcArg0RGB'
+
+and this one :
+
+In file included from ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:338,
+                 from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::texEnvOpRGB(unsigned int, NL3D::CMaterial::TTexOperator)':
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h:157: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::texEnvArg0RGB(unsigned int, NL3D::CMaterial::TTexSource,
+NL3D::CMaterial::TTexOperand)':
+
+
+What have i made wrong? Where this mysterious NL3D is defined?
+
+-- 
+François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+lebarjack@inzebox.com
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Jan 17 18:45:23 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0HHjN441076
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:45:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18957
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:49:11 +0100
+Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:49:11 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010117184911.A18838@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+Subject: [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+We are proud to announce the release of the 0.1 version of the NeL
+framework. This framework comprises the NeL library, and a basic client
+and server source for a simple game called Snowballs. The CVS should be 
+updated shortly, and the 0.1 release tagged. We are including the data
+files required for the game separately.
+
+If you are following the CVS regularly, you just have to update,
+download the data archive, compile and run. Otherwise, you may also
+download separately the source tree of the 0.1 release without using
+CVS.
+
+NB: The source archives are packages with CVS data, you may use unpack
+them and use then CVS to update.
+
+We do not provide a pre-built set of binaries, as the 0.1 release isn't
+really representative of the full technology we want to use. The server
+has been tested under Linux, and the client under Windows. If you want
+to use it, there is a demo server running here, on which the client
+connects by default.
+
+For any questions, we have opened a new mailing list dedicated to the
+Snowballs demo game, snowballs@nevrax.org (see on the web site for
+a subscription page). Questions and reports about the client, server,
+or game data themselves should be directed there, while all discussions
+on the NeL library itself should remain under the nel@nevrax.org
+original mailing list.
+
+The archives may be downloaded there from the main page:
+	http://www.nevrax.org/
+
+Note: The zip archive contains the source tree in DOS text format,
+whereas the tar.gz archives contains the source in Unix text format.
+Both should compile equally well, but one might be easier to edit on
+your system.
+
+See you on the snowfields :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Wed Jan 17 22:20:34 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiternew.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0HLKX442258
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:20:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05538
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:18:06 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:17:13 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <137101409648.20010117221713@teleaction.de>
+To: Vincent Archer <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out
+In-reply-To: <20010117184911.A18838@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010117184911.A18838@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello to all !
+I just want to share some of my recent hints on building NeL for Win32
+platform with MC VC++ 6.0
+(Sorry  for  experienced  developers  familiar  with Win32 development
+environment,  may  be someone else like me usually do work primarily under
+UNIX and very seldom under Win32)
+
+*** STLPort ***
+First  problem  is  building  STLPort.
+(first big problem is the size - You  should  have  a  plenty  of  free space on
+hard drive. After building, STLPORT occupies 377946112 bytes)
+For some reasons or other nmake
+doesn't  work for me as expected (could be what Win32 also hate me as I
+hate Win32 ;)) It reports a lot of errors and exit.
+To  solve  this problem you can do File->Open STLport-4.0\src\vc6.mak and
+then do Build->build  stlport.exe
+Finally, after 30 minutes of hard work (PIII500/256), you'll have .lib & .dll & .pdb
+files   located   at  STLport-4.0\lib  Manually copy .lib (and I think
+.pdb  too)  to  VC default \lib location and don't forget to copy .dll
+files to some place where they could be found at runtime.
+
+*** FreeType 2 ***
+You need GNU Make 3.77 Link at FreeType site is broken
+Grab it from ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zip
+or any other place you want
+(http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&query=gnumake-win32.zip&doit=Search&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&hits=50&matches=&hitsprmatch=&limdom=&limpath=&hidepackages=on&hidedistfiles=on&hidefreebsd=on&hideopenbsd=on&hidenetbsd=on&hidelinux=on&f1=Count&f2=Mode&f3=Size&f4=Date&f5=Host&f6=Path&header=none&sort=none&trlen=20)
+You   should  have both path to GNU make and path to VC++ binaries as well
+to be included into your PATH environment variable
+next do:
+make setup visualc
+make
+copy freetype-2.0\obj\freetype.lib to VC++ default \lib location
+and  also  copy  freetype-2.0\include\freetype directory itself  to VC \include
+directory (just to save some clicks and typing while building NeL)
+
+To be continued ...
+
+PS.  Many  thanks to Paul Oakenfold and his wonderful music which save
+me from going madness while working under MS Windows :))
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Jan 17 23:05:34 2001
+Received: from balzac.cybercable.fr (balzac.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.198])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0HM5Y442472
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:05:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
+Received: (qmail 4413581 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2001 22:03:29 -0000
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+          by balzac.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 17 Jan 2001 22:03:29 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A6617E3.1000508@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:08:35 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010109
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+hello (sorry for my english)
+
+i've got problem to build the client under win32.
+i build all the nel components and stl-port and freetype.
+then i build the client and i've got some problem at the link.
+
+here is the error log of visual.
+
+ > Linking...
+ > MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib"
+ > conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+ > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+ > _psaux_module_class
+ > Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+ > Error executing link.exe.
+
+
+perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+
+i try to link with the debug and the release one renaming it to 
+freetype.lib cos the client link with freetype.lib
+but it don't work.
+i read different message in the mailing list and i understand the 
+freetype lib is build in obj directory but one my system it's build in lib.
+is it possible i've got a wrong version of freetype ?
+
+thank you for you're help.
+
+and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and 
+server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com Thu Jan 18 10:38:52 2001
+Received: from animaths.com (AMontsouris-101-2-1-70.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.54.70] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0I9co446236
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:38:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com)
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+X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com via ns.masa.com
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+Message-ID: <00b301c08132$6e9880d0$0b0210ac@jlt>
+From: "Jerome Lanquetot" <jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A6617E3.1000508@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:38:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+You have to add the psaux files in the freetype project (do it manually it
+works)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Nicolas Hognon" <cblt@cblt.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:08 PM
+Subject: [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32
+
+
+> hello (sorry for my english)
+>
+> i've got problem to build the client under win32.
+> i build all the nel components and stl-port and freetype.
+> then i build the client and i've got some problem at the link.
+>
+> here is the error log of visual.
+>
+>  > Linking...
+>  > MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib"
+>  > conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+>  > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+>  > _psaux_module_class
+>  > Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+>  > Error executing link.exe.
+>
+>
+> perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+> i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+> and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+>
+> i try to link with the debug and the release one renaming it to
+> freetype.lib cos the client link with freetype.lib
+> but it don't work.
+> i read different message in the mailing list and i understand the
+> freetype lib is build in obj directory but one my system it's build in
+lib.
+> is it possible i've got a wrong version of freetype ?
+>
+> thank you for you're help.
+>
+> and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and
+> server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+> cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+>
+>
+> --
+> Nicolas Hognon
+> home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+> work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+> #ICQ : 36044443
+>
+> Enjoy the silence
+> (DM)
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jan 18 10:42:41 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0I9ge446290
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:42:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28761
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:46:28 +0100
+Message-ID: <005601c08132$da739650$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010117184911.A18838@nevrax.com> <137101409648.20010117221713@teleaction.de>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:41:37 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> *** STLPort ***
+> First  problem  is  building  STLPort.
+> (first big problem is the size - You  should  have  a  plenty  of  free
+space on
+> hard drive. After building, STLPORT occupies 377946112 bytes)
+> For some reasons or other nmake
+> doesn't  work for me as expected (could be what Win32 also hate me as I
+> hate Win32 ;)) It reports a lot of errors and exit.
+> To  solve  this problem you can do File->Open STLport-4.0\src\vc6.mak and
+> then do Build->build  stlport.exe
+> Finally, after 30 minutes of hard work (PIII500/256), you'll have .lib &
+.dll & .pdb
+> files   located   at  STLport-4.0\lib  Manually copy .lib (and I think
+> .pdb  too)  to  VC default \lib location and don't forget to copy .dll
+> files to some place where they could be found at runtime.
+
+yes
+
+> *** FreeType 2 ***
+> You need GNU Make 3.77 Link at FreeType site is broken
+> Grab it from
+ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zi
+p
+> or any other place you want
+>
+(http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&query=gnumake-win32.z
+ip&doit=Search&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&hits=50&matc
+hes=&hitsprmatch=&limdom=&limpath=&hidepackages=on&hidedistfiles=on&hidefree
+bsd=on&hideopenbsd=on&hidenetbsd=on&hidelinux=on&f1=Count&f2=Mode&f3=Size&f4
+=Date&f5=Host&f6=Path&header=none&sort=none&trlen=20)
+> You   should  have both path to GNU make and path to VC++ binaries as well
+> to be included into your PATH environment variable
+> next do:
+> make setup visualc
+> make
+> copy freetype-2.0\obj\freetype.lib to VC++ default \lib location
+> and  also  copy  freetype-2.0\include\freetype directory itself  to VC
+\include
+> directory (just to save some clicks and typing while building NeL)
+
+yes too...
+
+In fact, I put in the INSTALL all things that you have to do to compile
+freetype, stlport and so on.
+But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax think
+that it s not our job
+to explain how to compile others external libraries.
+
+Thanks for all these informations and we hope that they helps everybody to
+compile more easily.
+
+
+Vianney
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jan 18 10:49:42 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0I9ng446378
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:49:42 +0100 (CET)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA28972
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:53:29 +0100
+Message-ID: <005c01c08133$d59f8390$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A6617E3.1000508@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:48:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+> i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+> and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+
+when we compile freetype2.0.1, it generated a freetype.lib in the
+freetype-2.0.1/obj directory.
+we never rename the library name or something like that.
+we don t have freetype200b8MT.lib or these strange lib filename.
+it seems with the name that it s freetype version 2.0.0 beta 8 and it s
+perhaps the reason.
+
+> and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and
+> server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+> cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+
+no, we don t put the data on cvs because it s too slow to get them and
+binaries are
+not very well managed in cvs. if you want data for the snowballs game, you
+have to
+download the tarball or zip file from the www.nevrax.org web site.
+
+Vianney
+
+
+From David.Mentre@inria.fr Thu Jan 18 11:01:08 2001
+Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0IA18446548
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:01:08 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@inria.fr)
+Received: from pochi.inria.fr (pochi.inria.fr [128.93.8.128])
+	by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f0I9x1520144
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:59:01 +0100 (MET)
+Received: (from mentre@localhost)
+	by pochi.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) id f0I9x1s06320;
+	Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:59:01 +0100
+X-Authentication-Warning: pochi.inria.fr: mentre set sender to David.Mentre@inria.fr using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out
+References: <20010117184911.A18838@nevrax.com>
+	<137101409648.20010117221713@teleaction.de>
+	<005601c08132$da739650$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@inria.fr>
+X-PhD-defense:  in 1 months and 9 days.
+Date: 18 Jan 2001 10:59:01 +0100
+In-Reply-To: "Vianney Lecroart"'s message of "Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:41:37 +0100"
+Message-ID: <qtlitndfafu.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Lines: 13
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.4
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+"Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax
+> think that it s not our job to explain how to compile others external
+> libraries.
+
+It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Jan 18 15:02:44 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0IE2f447885
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:02:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA01491
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:06:26 +0100
+Message-ID: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:01:25 +0100
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
+Subject: [Nel] Gl driver
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<from Snowballs mailing list>
+
+Hi,
+
+> here is the error:
+> ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: EBadDisplay: Missing Required GL =
+extension:
+> GL_ARB_multitexture
+
+
+The NeL's GlDriver works only if the GL_ARB_multitexture and =
+GL_EXT_tex_env_combine are present.
+If you don't have those extensions but your card can do multitexturing =
+(if you have GL_SGIS_multitexture=20
+for exemple), try to update your driver.
+
+Today, the client has been tested under Geforce and Geforce II.
+
+Regards
+
+Cyril Corvazier.   =20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV>&lt;from Snowballs mailing list&gt;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Hi,<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&gt; here is the error:<BR>&gt; ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception:=20
+EBadDisplay: Missing Required GL extension:<BR>&gt;=20
+GL_ARB_multitexture<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>The NeL's GlDriver works only if the GL_ARB_multitexture and=20
+GL_EXT_tex_env_combine are present.</DIV>
+<DIV>If you don't have those extensions but your card can do =
+multitexturing (if=20
+you have GL_SGIS_multitexture </DIV>
+<DIV>for exemple), try to update your driver.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Today, the client has been tested under Geforce and Geforce =
+II.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Regards</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Cyril Corvazier.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jan 18 17:57:15 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0IGvF448814
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:57:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA05211
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:01:01 +0100
+Message-ID: <00b001c0816f$8f69ea50$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010117184911.A18838@nevrax.com><137101409648.20010117221713@teleaction.de><005601c08132$da739650$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <qtlitndfafu.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:56:11 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> > But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax
+> > think that it s not our job to explain how to compile others external
+> > libraries.
+>
+> It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+> never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+
+Exact, We know that but in fact, if we put a doc explains all things to do
+to
+install external lib, we ll have to follow each new external lib version,
+try them
+and correct eventually the file. It s the reason that we prefer to refer to
+the
+external lib documentation to install them.
+Anyway, we'll perhaps put a special section on our web site or/and with nel
+to
+explain more in deep how to get and compile external stuffs.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+From jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com Thu Jan 18 18:01:31 2001
+Received: from animaths.com (AMontsouris-101-2-1-70.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.54.70] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0IH1U448858
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:01:31 +0100 (CET)
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+X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com via ns.masa.com
+X-Qmail-Scanner-Rcpt-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Qmail-Scanner: 0.93 (No viruses found. Processed in 0.267597 secs)
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+  by ns.masa.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2001 17:06:00 -0000
+Message-ID: <006901c08170$49445870$0b0210ac@jlt>
+From: "Jerome Lanquetot" <jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:01:22 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] Server
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, =
+naming and time.
+I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each service =
+and the order in which they start.
+
+Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+
+Regards
+
+J=E9r=F4me Lanquetot
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have some problems launching the five =
+services:=20
+</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>log, </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>login,=20
+</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>moves, </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>naming and=20
+time.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I found nowhere some help about the=20
+functionnalities about each service and the order in which they=20
+start.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could you help me to launch correctly =
+the=20
+services.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>J=E9r=F4me Lanquetot<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jan 18 18:20:55 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0IHKs448963
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:20:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA05685
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:24:36 +0100
+Message-ID: <00d701c08172$dcd86d40$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net> <006901c08170$49445870$0b0210ac@jlt>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Server
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:19:46 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, naming
+and time.
+>I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each service and
+the order in which they start.
+>Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+
+first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:
+
+--------begin of ns.cfg-------
+Host="your nameservice ip";
+Port=50000;
+--------end of ns.cfg-------
+
+after, you launch, in order:
+- naming                   <-- used to find a specific service by his name
+- log                         <-- centralized log for all service
+- time                       <-- centralized time reference
+- login                      <-- centralized user account for all shard
+- moves                   <-- a shard
+
+of course, some services will create some config file that you have to fill.
+you have to put in the ls.txt the moves service host ip like this:
+
+----
+Shards = {
+ "your moves service host ip", "the name of the shard appears on the client"
+};
+----
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+From jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com Thu Jan 18 18:50:29 2001
+Received: from animaths.com (AMontsouris-101-2-1-70.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.54.70] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0IHoT449131
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:50:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com)
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+X-Qmail-Scanner-Mail-From: jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com via ns.masa.com
+X-Qmail-Scanner-Rcpt-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Qmail-Scanner: 0.93 (No viruses found. Processed in 0.293819 secs)
+Received: from jlt.masa.com (HELO jlt) (172.16.2.11)
+  by ns.masa.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2001 17:55:00 -0000
+Message-ID: <008901c08177$21768280$0b0210ac@jlt>
+From: "Jerome Lanquetot" <jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net> <006901c08170$49445870$0b0210ac@jlt> <00d701c08172$dcd86d40$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Server
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:50:22 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Thanks Vianney,
+
+I have now two bugs.
+
+- The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+- The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the =
+client i get the following exception:
+"01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+
+I give you all my config files:
+
+ls.txt:
+
+Users =3D {
+};
+
+Shards =3D {
+ "172.16.2.11", "StartPosition"
+};
+
+
+ns.cfg:
+
+Host=3D"jlt";
+Port=3D50000;
+
+and client.cfg:
+// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+
+FullScreen =3D 0;
+Width =3D 800;
+Height =3D 600;
+Depth =3D 16;
+Position =3D { 1840.000000, -970.000000, -23.520323 };
+Heading =3D { -0.122154, 1.000000, 0.0 };
+Background =3D { 100, 100, 255 };
+DataPath =3D "data/";
+FontName =3D "n019003l.pfb";
+LanguageIndex =3D 0;
+LSHost =3D "172.16.2.11";
+Login =3D "jaylee";
+Password =3D "a";
+ShardIP =3D "172.16.2.11";
+CharacterIndex =3D 0;
+LandscapeTileNear =3D 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold =3D 0.001000;
+
+
+
+----- Original Message -----=20
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:19 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Server
+
+
+> >I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, =
+naming
+> and time.
+> >I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each =
+service and
+> the order in which they start.
+> >Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+>=20
+> first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:
+>=20
+> --------begin of ns.cfg-------
+> Host=3D"your nameservice ip";
+> Port=3D50000;
+> --------end of ns.cfg-------
+>=20
+> after, you launch, in order:
+> - naming                   <-- used to find a specific service by his =
+name
+> - log                         <-- centralized log for all service
+> - time                       <-- centralized time reference
+> - login                      <-- centralized user account for all =
+shard
+> - moves                   <-- a shard
+>=20
+> of course, some services will create some config file that you have to =
+fill.
+> you have to put in the ls.txt the moves service host ip like this:
+>=20
+> ----
+> Shards =3D {
+>  "your moves service host ip", "the name of the shard appears on the =
+client"
+> };
+> ----
+>=20
+> Vianney Lecroart
+>=20
+>=20
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks Vianney,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have now two bugs.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- The first one is when i launch the =
+moves service,=20
+it closes itself.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- The second one (linked to the first =
+one i guess)=20
+is when i launch the client i get the following exception:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: =
+Exception:=20
+toto2"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I give you all my config =
+files:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>ls.txt:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Users =3D {</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>};</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Shards =3D {<BR>&nbsp;"172.16.2.11",=20
+"StartPosition"<BR>};<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>ns.cfg:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>Host=3D"jlt";<BR>Port=3D50000;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>and =
+client.cfg:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>FullScreen =3D 0;<BR>Width =3D =
+800;<BR>Height =3D=20
+600;<BR>Depth =3D 16;<BR>Position =3D { 1840.000000, -970.000000, =
+-23.520323=20
+};<BR>Heading =3D { -0.122154, 1.000000, 0.0 };<BR>Background =3D { 100, =
+100, 255=20
+};<BR>DataPath =3D "data/";<BR>FontName =3D =
+"n019003l.pfb";<BR>LanguageIndex =3D=20
+0;<BR>LSHost =3D "172.16.2.11";<BR>Login =3D "jaylee";<BR>Password =3D =
+"a";<BR>ShardIP=20
+=3D "172.16.2.11";<BR>CharacterIndex =3D 0;<BR>LandscapeTileNear =3D=20
+50.000000;<BR>LandscapeThreshold =3D 0.001000;</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Vianney Lecroart" &lt;</FONT><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>lecroart@nevrax.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>nel@nevrax.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:19=20
+PM</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: [Nel] =
+Server</FONT></DIV></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>&gt; &gt;I have some problems launching the five services: log, =
+login,=20
+moves, naming<BR>&gt; and time.<BR>&gt; &gt;I found nowhere some help =
+about the=20
+functionnalities about each service and<BR>&gt; the order in which they=20
+start.<BR>&gt; &gt;Could you help me to launch correctly the =
+services.<BR>&gt;=20
+<BR>&gt; first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:<BR>&gt; =
+<BR>&gt;=20
+--------begin of ns.cfg-------<BR>&gt; Host=3D"your nameservice =
+ip";<BR>&gt;=20
+Port=3D50000;<BR>&gt; --------end of ns.cfg-------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
+after, you=20
+launch, in order:<BR>&gt; -=20
+naming&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
+nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- used to find a specific service by his name<BR>&gt; -=20
+log&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
+p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
+;=20
+&lt;-- centralized log for all service<BR>&gt; -=20
+time&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
+sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- centralized time reference<BR>&gt; -=20
+login&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
+bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- centralized user account for all shard<BR>&gt; -=20
+moves&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
+bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- a shard<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; of course, some services will create =
+some config=20
+file that you have to fill.<BR>&gt; you have to put in the ls.txt the =
+moves=20
+service host ip like this:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----<BR>&gt; Shards =3D =
+{<BR>&gt;=20
+&nbsp;"your moves service host ip", "the name of the shard appears on =
+the=20
+client"<BR>&gt; };<BR>&gt; ----<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Vianney =
+Lecroart<BR>&gt;=20
+<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
+_______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Nel=20
+mailing list<BR>&gt; </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:Nel@nevrax.org"><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>Nel@nevrax.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; =
+</FONT><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel"><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</FONT></A><BR><FO=
+NT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; </FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000--
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Thu Jan 18 20:05:45 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0IJ5g449504
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:05:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robofly@in-orbit.net)
+Received: (qmail 4422 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2001 19:02:06 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO PCTEST.in-orbit.org) (63.205.226.188)
+  by 192.168.1.10 with SMTP; 18 Jan 2001 19:02:06 -0000
+Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:02:44 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <345693203.20010118110244@in-orbit.net>
+To: Jerome Lanquetot <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Server
+In-reply-To: <008901c08177$21768280$0b0210ac@jlt>
+References: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+ <006901c08170$49445870$0b0210ac@jlt> <00d701c08172$dcd86d40$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+ <008901c08177$21768280$0b0210ac@jlt>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Jerome,
+
+Thursday, January 18, 2001, 9:50:22 AM, you wrote:
+JL> - The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+
+You might have to use the host name of your
+computer instead of the IP number in ls.txt.
+
+Maybe you should also use the host name instead
+of the IP number in the LSHost parameter in the
+client.cfg
+
+JL> - The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the client i get the following exception:
+JL> "01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+
+This is probably because the client can't connect
+to the moves_service, that was not started...
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+From jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com Fri Jan 19 09:18:25 2001
+Received: from animaths.com (AMontsouris-101-2-1-70.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.54.70])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0J8IP453855
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:18:25 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <001701c081f0$642cddd0$0b0210ac@jlt>
+From: "Jerome Lanquetot" <jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net> <006901c08170$49445870$0b0210ac@jlt> <00d701c08172$dcd86d40$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <008901c08177$21768280$0b0210ac@jlt> <345693203.20010118110244@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Nel] Server
+Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:18:23 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+The problem remains the same, the moves service closes itself. I use the
+host name of my machine, and it doesn't work. I think the best is to send us
+your two config files (ls.txt and ns.cfg) used for your server.
+
+Is there a log file or window to see what is wrong?
+
+thanks
+
+Jerome
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "robofly" <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+To: "Jerome Lanquetot" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:02 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Server
+
+
+> Hi Jerome,
+>
+> Thursday, January 18, 2001, 9:50:22 AM, you wrote:
+> JL> - The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+>
+> You might have to use the host name of your
+> computer instead of the IP number in ls.txt.
+>
+> Maybe you should also use the host name instead
+> of the IP number in the LSHost parameter in the
+> client.cfg
+>
+> JL> - The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch
+the client i get the following exception:
+> JL> "01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+>
+> This is probably because the client can't connect
+> to the moves_service, that was not started...
+>
+> Warm regards,
+> Róbert
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Jan 19 16:22:51 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0JFMp456089
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:22:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23117
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:26:36 +0100
+Message-ID: <008f01c0822b$8a4de820$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net> <006901c08170$49445870$0b0210ac@jlt> <00d701c08172$dcd86d40$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <008901c08177$21768280$0b0210ac@jlt>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Server
+Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:21:48 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+please, could you stop to send your email in HTML format?
+it s not safe and not really cool to read them on text mail program. thank
+you.
+
+>I have now two bugs.
+>- The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+>- The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the
+client i get the following exception:
+>"01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+
+ok, if your moves serive is not launch, you *cant* connect your client, so
+the second problem
+is because of that. if your moves service closes itself, it s surely because
+the login service
+didn't authorized him to be an official shard. official shard are in ls.txt
+file (Shard variable) and
+for a strange reason, the ip you put on it isn t the same that the one who
+sent by the moves service.
+
+all services log informations in a file called logs.log, you should take a
+look on it.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Sat Jan 20 02:22:03 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0K1M1703216
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 20 Jan 2001 02:22:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robofly@in-orbit.net)
+Received: (qmail 9612 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2001 01:18:28 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO PCTEST.in-orbit.org) (63.205.226.188)
+  by 192.168.1.10 with SMTP; 20 Jan 2001 01:18:28 -0000
+Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:19:05 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <1234090682.20010119171905@in-orbit.net>
+To: Jerome Lanquetot <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[4]: [Nel] Server
+In-reply-To: <001701c081f0$642cddd0$0b0210ac@jlt>
+References: <009d01c08157$251efea0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+ <006901c08170$49445870$0b0210ac@jlt> <00d701c08172$dcd86d40$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+ <008901c08177$21768280$0b0210ac@jlt> <345693203.20010118110244@in-orbit.net>
+ <001701c081f0$642cddd0$0b0210ac@jlt>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Jerome,
+
+Friday, January 19, 2001, 12:18:23 AM, you wrote:
+JL> The problem remains the same, the moves service closes itself. I use the
+JL> host name of my machine, and it doesn't work. I think the best is to send us
+JL> your two config files (ls.txt and ns.cfg) used for your server.
+
+One hint: If you can, rename your computer
+to "pctest" and try running the servers.
+This is a default hostname in the NeL code.
+You should be able to override this with
+the ns.cfg file.
+
+Also I had some problems with DNS issues, the
+test computer I was using didn't have a
+legal host name that could be looked up,
+after I fixed that everything worked...
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+<<<<<ns.cfg>>>>>>
+Host="pctest";
+Port=50000;
+>>>>>ns.cfg<<<<<<
+
+
+
+From poet007@ifrance.com Sun Jan 21 19:46:13 2001
+Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0LIkD717128
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:46:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from poet007@ifrance.com)
+Received: from 217.11.166.201 [217.11.166.201] by lh00.opsion.fr; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:44:19 GMT
+From: "Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner" <poet007@ifrance.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:43:54 +0100
+Message-ID: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIGEGKCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60"
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling nel
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+I just downloaded all necessary packages (I think so) to run
+nel software but it seems that a file is missing.
+While compiling the 3d lib,
+a "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h': No
+such file or directory"
+occurs.
+
+I'm trying to compile it using VC++ under win2000.
+I have downloaded STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having
+launched a "find file" command under windows, it seems that freetype.h isn't
+stored on my hard disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?
+
+Thanks in advance and may the force be with you :)
+
+Poet007.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>I just =
+downloaded=20
+all necessary packages (I think so) to run </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>nel =
+software but it=20
+seems that a file is missing.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>While =
+compiling the=20
+3d lib,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>a =
+"fatal error=20
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h': No such file or=20
+directory"</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001>occurs.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>I'm =
+trying to=20
+compile it using VC++ under win2000.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>I have =
+downloaded=20
+STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
+class=3D687323718-21012001>launched a "find=20
+file" command under windows, it seems that freetype.h =
+isn't</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>stored =
+on my hard=20
+disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>Thanks =
+in advance=20
+and may the force be with you :)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001>Poet007.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60--
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+From poet007@ifrance.com Sun Jan 21 20:10:22 2001
+Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0LJAM717275
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:10:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from poet007@ifrance.com)
+Received: from 217.11.166.201 [217.11.166.201] by lh00.opsion.fr; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:08:28 GMT
+From: "Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner" <poet007@ifrance.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:08:02 +0100
+Message-ID: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIEEGLCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Sorry
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Sorry for having sent a MIME formated message :)
+I have just configured outlook to send pure text mails
+for later messages....
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+From poet007@ifrance.com Sun Jan 21 22:36:14 2001
+Received: from lh01.opsion.fr (lh01.opsion.fr [212.73.208.227])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0LLaE717935
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:36:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from poet007@ifrance.com)
+Received: from 217.11.165.29 [217.11.165.29] by lh01.opsion.fr; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:34:21 GMT
+From: "Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner" <poet007@ifrance.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:33:54 +0100
+Message-ID: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIMEGLCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Sorry again :)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I just posted a question before reading
+the documentation and other posted messages...
+I know now where to look for the freetype missing
+file :)
+But it just seems that the server is broken tonight...
+I will have a look at it tomorrow though...
+Sorry again guys !
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Jan 22 11:25:52 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0MAPq721860
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:25:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10485
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:29:47 +0100
+Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:29:46 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Sorry again :)
+Message-ID: <20010122112946.F9319@nevrax.com>
+References: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIMEGLCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIMEGLCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner:
+> But it just seems that the server is broken tonight...
+> I will have a look at it tomorrow though...
+> Sorry again guys !
+
+We had a powerdown during this week-end, and the server restarted, but
+for some odd reasons, you had about 80% or so packetloss on the network
+interface, and it was almost unreachable. We've fixed the missing files
+and restarted the server, which should be working "more or less" ok.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan 22 18:34:46 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0MHYj723828
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:34:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA18245
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:38:40 +0100
+Message-ID: <00d301c08499$799e8af0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:33:47 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] nel, snowballs and linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I have just commited on CVS the last fix for linux compilation of
+NeL and Snowballs.
+It should compile and link with no problem.
+You can run the executable but you must have accelerated opengl driver.
+If you want to do some feedback, bug fixes etc.. don t hesitate!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Mon Jan 22 19:02:50 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0MI2n723995
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:02:49 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robofly@in-orbit.net)
+Received: (qmail 26996 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2001 17:59:37 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO PCTEST.in-orbit.org) (63.205.226.188)
+  by 192.168.1.10 with SMTP; 22 Jan 2001 17:59:36 -0000
+Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:59:57 -0800
+From: robofly <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <155236946661.20010122095957@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+I'm trying to compile tile_edit from the tools folder.  After
+uncompressing a jpeg source code library in the Pic subfolder
+I get the following compilation errors.  It the Pic/ stuff
+some kind of an standard image library, from somewhere?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+ps. Here is the output from my compiler:
+
+--------------------Configuration: tile_edit_exe - Win32 Release--------------------
+Compiling...
+jchuff.c
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(271) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(273) : error C2085: 'emit_bits' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(273) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(311) : warning C4013: 'emit_bits' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+jcphuff.c
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(235) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(237) : error C2085: 'emit_bits' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(237) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(276) : warning C4013: 'emit_bits' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(288) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(289) : error C2085: 'emit_symbol' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(289) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(333) : warning C4013: 'emit_symbol' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+Pic_BMP.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_BMP.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_JPG.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_JPG.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_Manage.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_Manage.c': No such file or directory
+PIC_System.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\PIC_System.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_TGA.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_TGA.c': No such file or directory
+Generating Code...
+Compiling...
+readpic.cpp
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\readpic.cpp': No such file or directory
+Generating Code...
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+tile_edit.exe - 15 error(s), 3 warning(s)
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Tue Jan 23 10:15:47 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0N9Fk728757
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:15:46 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <001701c0851c$e1c77e60$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <155236946661.20010122095957@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:14:25 +0100
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> I'm trying to compile tile_edit from the tools folder.  After
+> uncompressing a jpeg source code library in the Pic subfolder
+> I get the following compilation errors.
+
+You are right, the PIC folder was missing on the CVS in tool/tile_edit/PIC.
+That's ok now.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan 23 11:40:07 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NAe6729149
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:39:33 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] mesa3D
+Message-ID: <20010123113933.A9424@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010111161325.A15929@barjackland> <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com> <20010115124246.A31297@barjackland> <20010117015206.A6876@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010117015206.A6876@bernard-hugueney.org>; from bernard@bernard-hugueney.org on Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 01:52:06AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Debian User wrote:
+> ...
+>   /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+>  
+> ???
+> You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+
+hehe, i checked the RedHat's rpm of Mesa and it include the last version
+glext.h (version 7) from SGI and not from Mesa (version 6) ... :-)
+
+I'm going to update the INSTALL file to put a note about it ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+PS: Sorry if it take a long time to answer your mail, i was in vavcation ...
+
+
+From zerodeux@free.fr Tue Jan 23 11:51:49 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (montsouris-101-1-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.18.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NApn729218
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:51:49 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <3A6D6193.882F80F0@free.fr>
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:48:51 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <zerodeux@free.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Pb with glx version
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I'm having the same trouble as Bernard Hugueney had. I'm using Debian Sid
+(unstable), and the nel/ configure script complains about OpenGL version
+being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 7). Debian packages the original XFree 4.0.2
+header files, XFree says 4.0.2 uses Mesa 3.4, and if you downloa Mesa 3.4 you'll
+see that GL_GLEXT_VERSION is set to 6.
+
+Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to 7,
+and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+
+I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for now,
+in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+
+From zerodeux@free.fr Tue Jan 23 14:21:52 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (montsouris-101-1-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.18.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NDLq729952
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:21:52 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <3A6D84C4.7CE70D0F@free.fr>
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:19:00 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <zerodeux@free.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous structures
+(see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard feature,
+and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by others.
+Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth. I
+guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+structure ...
+
+In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used to
+declare any objects
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+[...]
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Jan 23 14:28:19 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NDSI730001
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+Message-ID: <003001c08540$37186280$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A6D84C4.7CE70D0F@free.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:27:21 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous
+structures
+> (see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard
+feature,
+> and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by
+others.
+> Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth.
+I
+> guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+> I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+> structure ...
+>
+> In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+>                  from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used
+to
+> declare any objects
+> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+> NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+> NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+
+Yes, we know that. In fact, it compiles with no warning with gcc 2.96.
+If you could give me a link to a document that say it s not ANSI, i ll be
+glad.
+
+Regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan 23 14:28:37 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:28:04 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Pb with glx version
+Message-ID: <20010123142803.B9424@nevrax.com>
+References: <3A6D6193.882F80F0@free.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3A6D6193.882F80F0@free.fr>; from zerodeux@free.fr on Tue, Jan 23, 2001 at 11:48:51AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> 
+> Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to 7,
+> and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+> cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+
+Nop, but you are quite close : RedHat 7.0 :-)
+
+> I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for now,
+> in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+
+The problem is that we are going, in a very short time, to use recent
+extensions present only in the version 7 of glext.h. So it migth be useless
+to change it now and change it agin soon ...
+
+Anyway, i'm going to put a note about the glext.h version and where to find it
+in nel's INSTALL file.
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Tue Jan 23 14:34:19 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NDYI730086
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+Message-ID: <000e01c08540$f5ee2500$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A6D6193.882F80F0@free.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Pb with glx version
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:32:41 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I'm having the same trouble as Bernard Hugueney had. I'm using Debian Sid
+> (unstable), and the nel/ configure script complains about OpenGL version
+> being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 7). Debian packages the original XFree
+4.0.2
+> header files, XFree says 4.0.2 uses Mesa 3.4, and if you downloa Mesa 3.4
+you'll
+> see that GL_GLEXT_VERSION is set to 6.
+>
+> Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to
+7,
+> and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+> cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+
+No.
+
+"glext.h" is NOT linked to any linux distribution/version. His purpose is to
+declare all the possible extensions of any graphic hardware. For that
+reason, SGI handles the "official" glext.h, which you can retrieve from:
+
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+> > I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for
+now,
+> in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+
+For now, we do not really use the version 7 of the header, but this will
+come soon (for fututre new extensions such as NV20 ones), so the only thing
+you must do, is to get and replace the glext.h.
+
+
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From zerodeux@free.fr Tue Jan 23 15:37:40 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (AMontsouris-101-1-5-100.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.253.239.100])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NEbd730511
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC5F96
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:41:40 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A6D9687.A98C7AA6@free.fr>
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:34:47 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <zerodeux@free.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Pb with glx version
+References: <3A6D6193.882F80F0@free.fr> <000e01c08540$f5ee2500$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Lionel Berenguier wrote:
+> 
+> For now, we do not really use the version 7 of the header, but this will
+> come soon (for fututre new extensions such as NV20 ones), so the only thing
+> you must do, is to get and replace the glext.h.
+
+All right, I read SGI's recommendations. I'll suggest Debian to upgrade their
+glext.h then.
+
+From elw@stderr.org Tue Jan 23 15:59:30 2001
+Received: from eckhart.stderr.org (root@aph.frognet.net [216.3.3.138])
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+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:57:23 -0500 (EST)
+From: elijah wright <elw@stderr.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Pb with glx version
+In-Reply-To: <000e01c08540$f5ee2500$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0101230955090.31110-100000@eckhart.stderr.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> > being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 7). Debian packages the original XFree
+> 4.0.2
+> 
+> "glext.h" is NOT linked to any linux distribution/version. His purpose is to
+> declare all the possible extensions of any graphic hardware. For that
+> reason, SGI handles the "official" glext.h, which you can retrieve from:
+> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+if in fact this is true (i'll take your word for it) someone should
+probably make a .deb that downloads and installs the newer glext.h.  it'll
+take some trickery to get the overrrides and alternatives right, but
+nothing that can't be done.  it'll have to cooperate with mesa and xfree
+maintainers, too- even less fun.  maybe xfree and mesa developers will
+upgrade their version of the file soon?
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Tue Jan 23 16:04:15 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NF4E730700
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:04:14 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <000b01c0854d$857fdfe0$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A6D84C4.7CE70D0F@free.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:02:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous
+structures
+> (see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard
+feature,
+> and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by
+others.
+> Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth.
+I
+> guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+> I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+> structure ...
+
+You're right.  Fixed... :o)
+
+regards
+
+
+From zerodeux@free.fr Tue Jan 23 16:11:43 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (AMontsouris-101-1-5-100.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.253.239.100])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NFBg730758
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:11:42 +0100 (CET)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82D1C80
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:15:43 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A6D9E82.A78C3E87@free.fr>
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:08:50 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <zerodeux@free.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI
+References: <3A6D84C4.7CE70D0F@free.fr> <003001c08540$37186280$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> Yes, we know that. In fact, it compiles with no warning with gcc 2.96.
+> If you could give me a link to a document that say it s not ANSI, i ll be
+> glad.
+
+I only happend to find a two years old mail from a mingw32 developer :
+  http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/1998-11/msg00729.html
+
+I guess the correct answer would be to read carefully the C++ ANSI draft,
+but it's boooorring :)
+  http://www.cygnus.com/misc/wp/dec96pub/
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Tue Jan 23 17:15:45 2001
+Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NGFi731094
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:15:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
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+          with ESMTP id <20010123161257.ZXHZ5273.smtp1@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:12:57 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A6DADB2.2070401@chello.se>
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:13:38 +0100
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m17) Gecko/20000811
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling nel
+References: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIGEGKCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Freetype is a library. www.freetype.org.
+
+Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner wrote:
+
+> I just downloaded all necessary packages (I think so) to run
+> 
+> nel software but it seems that a file is missing.
+> 
+> While compiling the 3d lib,
+> 
+> a "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h':
+> No such file or directory"
+> 
+> occurs.
+> 
+>  
+> 
+> I'm trying to compile it using VC++ under win2000.
+> 
+> I have downloaded STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having
+> 
+> launched a "find file" command under windows, it seems that freetype.h isn't
+> 
+> stored on my hard disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?
+> 
+>  
+> 
+> Thanks in advance and may the force be with you :)
+> 
+>  
+> 
+> Poet007.
+> 
+>  
+> 
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan 23 18:27:02 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0NHR2731432
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:27:02 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:26:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:26:13 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out
+Message-ID: <20010123182613.A12370@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010117184911.A18838@nevrax.com> <137101409648.20010117221713@teleaction.de> <005601c08132$da739650$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <qtlitndfafu.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <qtlitndfafu.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>; from David.Mentre@inria.fr on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:59:01AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi David,
+
+David Mentre wrote:
+> 
+> It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+> never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+
+I'm one of the guys who was at the origin of that decision.
+
+It's not a problem about our job or not, it's more about the fact
+that you will never get from us a better support on these libraries
+installation that you could get from the guys who are working
+on them ... even if i know that it is pretty troublesome to look
+for informations on several place about several libraries just to
+install NeL :-)
+
+And if their installation instructions aren't up to date or incomplete,
+that's will be nice to contact them to fix that. I'm sure that a lot a
+people (mainly user as you are, but not necessarily NeL users :-) will
+appreciate the help ... as we will ;-)
+
+Anyway, we are going to write a small document explaining the basic
+installation instructions for these libraries, but you should not
+rely on that document to resolve all your installation problems.
+
+In case of troubles, you should look carefully at the README,
+the INSTALL files, and on the the files placed in the directory named
+doc(s) in the librarie file source tree, and do not forget there web
+sites, mailling lists, etc ... ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From poet007@ifrance.com Wed Jan 24 23:36:29 2001
+Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f0OMaT740044
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:36:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from poet007@ifrance.com)
+Received: from 217.11.167.244 [217.11.167.244] by lh00.opsion.fr; Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:38:51 GMT
+From: "Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner" <poet007@ifrance.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:34:14 +0100
+Message-ID: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIIEGOCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Importance: Normal
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling NeL
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>Message: 9
+>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:13:38 +0100
+>From: david.belius@chello.se
+>To: nel@nevrax.org
+>Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling nel
+>Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+
+>Freetype is a library. www.freetype.org.
+
+It seems that the adress above is not valid
+anymore. But the freetype lib is still available
+at the adress below :
+
+http://freetype.sourceforge.net/
+
+Poet007
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Jan 25 10:41:58 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0P9fv743405
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:41:57 +0100 (CET)
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:41:07 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling NeL
+Message-ID: <20010125104107.A24351@nevrax.com>
+References: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIIEGOCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <FBEHIHNMGHIAGDENKAOIIEGOCAAA.poet007@ifrance.com>; from poet007@ifrance.com on Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 11:34:14PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner wrote:
+> 
+> It seems that the adress above is not valid
+> anymore.
+
+Thei server is still running, it's just that there web server is down :-(
+
+It migth be fix soon ... i hope :-)
+
+> But the freetype lib is still available at the adress below :
+> 
+> http://freetype.sourceforge.net/
+
+Do not forget to not choose the European mirror but the USA one ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Feb  7 15:58:55 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f17EwsB65401;
+	Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:58:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05851;
+	Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:02:57 +0100
+Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:02:57 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org, snowballs@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010207160257.F4700@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+Subject: [Nel] New release
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+We've advanced NeL to the 0.3 version, and the sample Snowballs game to the
+0.2 version, so we've put a new release on the web site.
+
+Major highlights of NeL:
+- the AI framework compiles correctly under Linux
+- support for shadows, lens flare, and other lighting effects
+- compressed textures
+
+Major highlights of Snowballs (besides the NeL parts)
+- new radar system
+- zoom
+- correct execution under Linux (if your Xserver supports 3D acceleration,
+  otherwise, don't even think about it)
+
+As usual, you may update your CVS repositories and compile, or install the
+packaged source tree and compile from there. Do not forget to install the
+updated data files.
+
+As an aside, we're putting the dreaded 'ns.cfg' file in the data distribution
+but the library defaults are now set to the right server. Even without it,
+you'll no longer get the "cannot resolve pctest" error.
+
+Enjoy the new version.
+
+We'd appreciate feedback on how well it works under Linux. We've tested it
+with NVidia's accelerated modules, and some configurations give us problems
+(like 2 FPS rates), so we'd like to figure out what's wrong with these.
+Many thanks in advance.
+
+The distributions are linked on the news article on the home page of the
+	http://www.nevrax.org/
+web site.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Wed Feb  7 20:30:32 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f17JUQB66826
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+Message-ID: <3A81A1E0.5B169F39@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 20:28:32 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compilation pb
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that "gl.h"
+includes "glext.h". And "glx.h" include "gl.h". And so on ... The conclusion
+is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+
+#ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+#endif
+
+and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+<GL/glx.h>).
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Feb  7 23:54:30 2001
+Received: from lafontaine.cybercable.fr (lafontaine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.202])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f17Ms7B71311
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 7 Feb 2001 22:48:53 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A81D25F.9090702@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:55:27 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010109
+X-Accept-Language: en
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+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] news about nevrax on /.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+hello
+you certainly know it but there is a news a
+nevrax on slashdot : http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml
+sorry for this mail which don't deal with code
+but i think their some interresting comments about this news.
+i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+cheating and economic problems.
+
+and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+good luck guys !
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Feb  8 09:21:30 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16962
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:06:58 +0100
+Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:06:58 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] news about nevrax on /.
+Message-ID: <20010208090658.C16823@nevrax.com>
+References: <3A81D25F.9090702@cblt.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <3A81D25F.9090702@cblt.org>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+
+Incidentally, the site handles the www & this list. Seem that sendmail
+is more resilient than apache.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Feb  8 09:21:31 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f188LUp00387
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:21:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16946
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:05:45 +0100
+Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:05:45 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] news about nevrax on /.
+Message-ID: <20010208090545.B16823@nevrax.com>
+References: <3A81D25F.9090702@cblt.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <3A81D25F.9090702@cblt.org>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> hello
+> you certainly know it but there is a news a
+> nevrax on slashdot : http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml
+
+I know. This evening (afternoon for the states), rsync failed with lotsa
+timeouts.
+
+Of course, I've seen since that I configured our sync badly, and we sync
+documentation and cvs repositories thru the Internet instead of using only
+out private links.
+
+> i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+> cheating and economic problems.
+
+I'll be heading there first thing today. Given my selection, the Nevrax
+story is on the very first page of my home page (set to Slashdot) when
+I logged on this morning.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Feb  8 10:40:22 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f189eJp02605
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:40:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA18333
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:44:20 +0100
+Message-ID: <003501c091b3$10c8ea30$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A81A1E0.5B169F39@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux compilation pb
+Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:39:43 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+modifications,
+but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:28 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compilation pb
+
+
+> I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+> lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that "gl.h"
+> includes "glext.h". And "glx.h" include "gl.h". And so on ... The
+conclusion
+> is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+> inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+>
+> #ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+> #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+> #endif
+>
+> and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+> <GL/glx.h>).
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Feb  8 15:32:34 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f18EWUR06897
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:32:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1203A1
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  8 Feb 2001 15:33:01 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A82AD89.E4D00C01@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:30:33 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I compiled NeL from CVS the night before, and fetched snowballs data this
+morning (yes, after the slashdotting, I had something like a half-minitel
+feeling). The client took 20sec to display something (no CPU consumption
+though), then I connected to itsalive with a dummy login. Everything is
+fine, except my fps starting at 5 (the landscape just loaded) quickly
+sinking at 0.8 (I moved the mouse a little).
+
+My box is a Celeron-375, GeForce256, Linux 2.4.0 (Debian/woody). I'm running
+XFree 4.0.2 with Nvidia 0.9.6 drivers. Quake3 runs over 60fps with full
+options at 1024x768 (and really never hangs, yeees :)).
+
+More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the modeline
+is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different bitdepth
+under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Feb  8 16:44:53 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f18FioR08800
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:44:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26084
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:48:46 +0100
+Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:48:46 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010208164846.H25019@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+Subject: [Nel] Some "heavy" perturbations...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+You might have noticed the sluggish feel of the site, and the lack of
+prompt response by the mailing list (well maybe not).
+
+For those who didn't pay attention to the warnings earlier, we got
+referenced on Slashdot, which means about 1,000 people trying to click
+simultaneously on the link leading... well here.
+
+We don't have the infrastructure in place to handle this. Usually, no one
+has (it's kinda hard to justify putting enormous ressources to sustain a
+spike in traffic that will be mostly gone next week, once everyone had a
+look here).
+
+We've got however a bunch of new people coming here, so I'd like to say
+hello to all of you. I do hope you've browsed quickly thru the mail
+archives on the www.nevrax.org web site, and found it interesting. The
+list has gone mainly silent, with the odd compile problem cropping here
+and there, but that doesn't need to remain so.
+
+So, what do you think about NeL so far?
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From root@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp Thu Feb  8 16:58:44 2001
+Received: from mail0.u-aizu.ac.jp (mail0.u-aizu.ac.jp [163.143.1.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f18FwgR09172
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:58:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from root@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp)
+Received: from stdml3.u-aizu.ac.jp (stdml3 [163.143.12.32]) by mail0.u-aizu.ac.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7Winternet-gw) with ESMTP
+	id AAA17766 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:56:19 +0900 (JST)
+Received: from cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp (cal05 [163.143.133.104]) by stdml3.u-aizu.ac.jp (8.9.3+3.1W/3.7Wistcmx+kanji) with ESMTP
+	id AAA16077 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:56:18 +0900 (JST)
+Message-ID: <3A8348BC.E4D74D44@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp>
+Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:32:44 +0900
+From: Carl Vilbrandt <root@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp>
+Organization: University of Aizu
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5 i586)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+ boundary="------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C"
+Subject: [Nel] Computer Arts Lab
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+ boundary="------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67"
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+To all
+
+I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+entity.   Each
+AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+AutoCAD
+data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data with
+the real
+time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+time  simulation
+for visualization.
+
+I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+
+I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+temples in  the
+Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+studied with a master
+temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the last
+temple builder
+in this region.
+
+I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+in this area via the internet.
+
+I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+open source
+3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+anyone have any
+suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+
+http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+
+--
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp
+
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
+<html>
+To all
+<p>I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake entity.&nbsp;&nbsp;
+Each
+<br>AutoCAD&nbsp; / Quake entity as&nbsp; a unique name so I have a link
+between AutoCAD
+<br>data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+with the real
+<br>time Quake entities.&nbsp;&nbsp; I plan to create a CAD&nbsp; system
+that uses a real time&nbsp; simulation
+<br>for visualization.
+<p>I have been looking at other game 3D engines.&nbsp; Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+<p>I&nbsp;have created very precise highly computational base 3D models
+of temples in&nbsp; the
+<br>Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.&nbsp;
+I studied with a master
+<br>temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+last temple builder
+<br>in this region.
+<p>I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+<br>in this area via the internet.
+<p>I&nbsp;would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join
+and open source
+<br>3D real time&nbsp; dev group.&nbsp; I am not quite sure where to begin.&nbsp;
+Does anyone have any
+<br>suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+<p><A HREF="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html">http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html</A>
+<pre>--&nbsp;
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp</pre>
+&nbsp;</html>
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67--
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii;
+ name="vilb.html"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: inline;
+ filename="vilb.html"
+Content-Base: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+Content-Location: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+
+<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
+<html>
+<head>
+   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
+   <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Mozilla/4.7 [en_jp] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) [Netscape]">
+   <title>Computer Arts Lab</title>
+</head>
+<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#000000" link="#CCCCCC" vlink="#CCCCCC" alink="#999999" background="cal07.gif">
+&nbsp;
+<table BORDER CELLPADDING=3 NOSAVE >
+<tr NOSAVE>
+<td NOSAVE><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#CCCCCC"><font size=+1>CARL
+VILBRANDT</font></font></font></b></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><b><a href="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp">University
+of Aizu</a></b><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+Department of Software - Computer Arts Lab</font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">Tsuruga, Ikki-machi,
+Aizu-Wakamatsu, Fukushima, JAPAN 965-8580</font></font></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.applied3d.com/res/res.html">Curriculum
+Vitae</a></font></font></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">email:</font> <a href="mailto:vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp">vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+
+<font color="#000000">Office 327-B</font></font></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">tel no: +81-242-37-2792&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+FAX +81-242-37-2772</font></font></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td></td>
+
+<td></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td><font color="#000000"></font></td>
+
+<td></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr NOSAVE>
+<td NOSAVE><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#CCCCCC">Classes:</font><font color="#999999">&nbsp;</font><font color="#000000">
+Computer Graphics</font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+<a href="lit2/f1.htm">Literacy 2</a></font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+<a href="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~k-mori/os/">Operating Systems</a></font></font></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">Research: 
+<a href="http://www.gnubook.org">GNUbook.org</a></font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+
+<a href="http://www.hyperfun.org">HyperFun.org</a></font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+
+<a href="http://fire.csua.ucla.edu/~jan/ah/menu.html">Aizu History Project</a></font></font></td>
+</tr>
+</table>
+
+<p><img SRC="tmp.jpg" HSPACE=10 VSPACE=10 height=240 width=320 align=RIGHT>
+</body>
+</html>
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C--
+
+
+From novalis@novalis.org Thu Feb  8 21:47:57 2001
+Received: from huck.phpwebhosting.com (huck.phpwebhosting.com [64.65.0.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f18KluR14375
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:47:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from novalis@novalis.org)
+Received: (qmail 16001 invoked by alias); 8 Feb 2001 20:45:26 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO novalis.org) (216.158.32.67)
+  by huck.phpwebhosting.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 20:45:26 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A830232.34CC5E41@novalis.org>
+Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:31:46 -0500
+From: Dave Turner <novalis@novalis.org>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17-ide i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Computer Arts Lab
+References: <3A8348BC.E4D74D44@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Carl Vilbrandt wrote:
+> 
+> To all
+> 
+> I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+> entity.   Each
+> AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+> AutoCAD
+> data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+> with the real
+> time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+> time  simulation
+> for visualization.
+> 
+> I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+> 
+> I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+> temples in  the
+> Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+> studied with a master
+> temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+> last temple builder
+> in this region.
+> 
+> I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+> historical sites
+> in this area via the internet.
+> 
+> I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+> open source
+> 3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+> anyone have any
+> suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+> 
+> http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+> 
+> --
+> Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+
+The big way to contribute to open source is to release under the GPL or
+a BSD-style license your autocad->quake converter.  I think there is a
+Quake3->Crystalspace map converter, which is something that you might
+want to consider when choosing an engine.  
+
+This sounds like a great project - have fun!
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+"It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures" - Pug
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Feb  9 09:46:13 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f198kDR47100
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:46:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04241
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:50:12 +0100
+Message-ID: <000f01c09274$ad4473e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A82AD89.E4D00C01@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256
+Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:45:38 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+> fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the
+modeline
+> is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different
+bitdepth
+> under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+
+actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Feb  9 10:36:09 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f199a8R47590
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:36:08 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75398687
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri,  9 Feb 2001 10:36:51 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A83B99F.266BA661@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:34:23 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256
+References: <3A82AD89.E4D00C01@zerodeux.net> <000f01c09274$ad4473e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+> available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+> everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+
+You can't change XFree bitdepth until you restart it ... For good GL init
+code, I suggest you take a look at SDL init code.
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Feb  9 12:02:30 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19B2UR48454;
+	Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:02:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06421;
+	Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:06:28 +0100
+Message-ID: <002d01c09287$b70963a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <snowballs@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A7ADBA3.9030307@chello.se> <3A7FC9A1.7C1FFBE0@nevrax.com> <3A82C8D4.6060103@chello.se>
+Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:01:55 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] snowballs is slow
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <david.belius@chello.se>
+To: <snowballs@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:27 PM
+Subject: Re: [Snowballs] Runnign snowballs - Finally snowballs runs!
+
+
+> The font problem was because of how i compiled freetype.
+> Now snowball runs!
+> It looks very nice(especially the terrain) but it isn't very fast!
+> I get below 10 fps on my 800 mhz Athlon with 128 mb ram and a GeForce256
+> 32 MB DDR card(using detonator drivers) running win98se.
+> Is this somethign wrong with my configuration or are there optimizations
+> that haven't yet been made or something?
+>
+> /David
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Snowballs mailing list
+> Snowballs@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs
+
+
+From olivier.tarnus@interact.lu Fri Feb  9 14:42:14 2001
+Received: from interact.lu ([194.154.218.164])
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+Message-ID: <007701c0929c$e9a78fc0$cc01a8c0@interact.lu>
+From: "Olivier Tarnus" <olivier.tarnus@interact.lu>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:33:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560"
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
+Subject: [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Hi ,
+
+And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+active OSS softwares comming from France....
+
+I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+find the configure script that should be included...
+
+Do i have to get it via CVS?
+
+Olivier Tarnus
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
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+	name="Olivier Tarnus.vcf"
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+
+BEGIN:VCARD
+VERSION:2.1
+N:Tarnus;Olivier
+FN:Olivier Tarnus
+TITLE:Web developer
+TEL;WORK;VOICE:+352 48 49 69
+EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:olivier.tarnus@interact.lu
+REV:20010209T133339Z
+END:VCARD
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560--
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Feb  9 15:09:58 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19E9vR49866
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:09:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C3C3A1
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri,  9 Feb 2001 15:10:41 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A83F9CE.DF0B1D65@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:08:14 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....
+References: <007701c0929c$e9a78fc0$cc01a8c0@interact.lu>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+> 
+> Hi ,
+> 
+> And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+> active OSS softwares comming from France....
+> 
+> I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+> find the configure script that should be included...
+
+It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Feb  9 16:49:16 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19FnGR50668
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:49:16 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:53:14 +0100
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f19FlDq12928
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:47:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:47:13 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....
+Message-ID: <20010209164713.A12855@nevrax.com>
+References: <007701c0929c$e9a78fc0$cc01a8c0@interact.lu> <3A83F9CE.DF0B1D65@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3A83F9CE.DF0B1D65@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 03:08:14PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+> > 
+> > I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+> > find the configure script that should be included...
+> 
+> It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+> the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+
+The version available on our web site are CVS ckeckout and not a distribution
+version. That's mean that the configure script will no be include but
+should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+
+The bootstrap script migth fail becuase some files are missing, so in that
+case reexecute the script., it will copy the missing files ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Feb  9 17:40:16 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19GeFR51075
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:40:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f19GcDS13873
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:38:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:38:12 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....
+Message-ID: <20010209173812.A13860@nevrax.com>
+References: <007701c0929c$e9a78fc0$cc01a8c0@interact.lu> <3A83F9CE.DF0B1D65@zerodeux.net> <20010209164713.A12855@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010209164713.A12855@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Fri, Feb 09, 2001 at 04:47:13PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+> Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+
+Ooops you should read Makefile.am and not Makefile.in ... :-)
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Fri Feb  9 20:57:08 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19Jv7R52764
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:57:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14219
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:01:05 +0100
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010209204729.00ac0ec0@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net (Unverified)
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:54:18 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Subject: [Nel] Hello Slashdot !
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+
+From Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com Fri Feb  9 21:08:53 2001
+Received: from puck.channelinx.com (mail.channelinx.com [12.19.58.34])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19K8qR52865
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:08:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com)
+Received: from pluto (uranus.channelinx.com [12.19.58.33])
+	by puck.channelinx.com (Switch-2.0.5/Switch-2.0.5) with SMTP id f19K6PI10972
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:06:25 -0500
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+	id <D0N6LMYH>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:06:20 -0500
+Message-ID: <FBE4EA33792BD4118DE300D0B723F968B28C6D@jupiter>
+From: Matthew Flagg <Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com>
+To: "'nel@nevrax.org'" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Hello Slashdot !
+Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:06:20 -0500 
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hey that would be me!  Hey guys.  Any of you on the Java3D list too maybe?
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Olivier Lejade [mailto:lejade@nevrax.com]
+Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 2:54 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] Hello Slashdot !
+
+
+I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+From slistak@hotmail.com Fri Feb  9 22:49:46 2001
+Received: from hotmail.com (f43.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19LnjR53684
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:49:46 +0100 (CET)
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+X-Originating-IP: [63.197.8.85]
+From: "Slistak Shady" <slistak@hotmail.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 21:47:18 -0000
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
+Message-ID: <F43vZY5tyR29sfszvoK0000ea2a@hotmail.com>
+X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Feb 2001 21:47:18.0613 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFC88050:01C092E1]
+Subject: [Nel] Compilation under VC6
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi-
+
+This is my first time at tryng to compile everything. Current problem I have 
+is the following error when compiling NeL.
+
+C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+#error :  "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+file.cpp
+
+
+I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and 
+compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and lib 
+file as per the INSTALL doc.
+
+Any suggestions?
+
+Thanks.
+Brett
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Fri Feb  9 22:59:10 2001
+Received: from racine.cybercable.fr (racine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.201])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f19LxAR53796
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+          by racine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 9 Feb 2001 21:56:49 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A846932.1020907@cblt.org>
+Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:03:30 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010109
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation under VC6
+References: <F43vZY5tyR29sfszvoK0000ea2a@hotmail.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+put the include directory of stlport before
+in include from microsoft
+
+Slistak Shady wrote:
+
+> Hi-
+> 
+> This is my first time at tryng to compile everything. Current problem I 
+> have is the following error when compiling NeL.
+> 
+> C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+> #error :  "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+> file.cpp
+> 
+> 
+> I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and 
+> compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and 
+> lib file as per the INSTALL doc.
+> 
+> Any suggestions?
+> 
+> Thanks.
+> Brett
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From robofly@in-orbit.net Fri Feb  9 23:01:00 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19M0xR53831
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 23:00:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robofly@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from PCTEST.in-orbit.org ([63.205.226.188])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f19LvZl32525
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:57:35 -0800
+Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:57:40 -0800
+From: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?= <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.46d) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <138101610047.20010209135740@in-orbit.net>
+To: Slistak Shady <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation under VC6
+In-reply-To: <F43vZY5tyR29sfszvoK0000ea2a@hotmail.com>
+References: <F43vZY5tyR29sfszvoK0000ea2a@hotmail.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Slistak,
+
+Friday, February 09, 2001, 1:47:18 PM, you wrote:
+SS> C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+SS> #error :  "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+SS> file.cpp
+
+SS> I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and
+SS> compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and lib 
+SS> file as per the INSTALL doc.
+
+SS> Any suggestions?
+
+In VC, try going into the Tools->Options menu and move
+the reference to the stlport include files up using
+the up arrow.  This is for the compiler to find
+stlport before the standard MS libraries.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+From slistak@hotmail.com Sat Feb 10 04:20:53 2001
+Received: from hotmail.com (f98.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1A3KqR59215
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+	 Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:18:24 -0800
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+X-Originating-IP: [63.197.8.85]
+From: "Slistak Shady" <slistak@hotmail.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation under VC6
+Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:18:24 -0000
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
+Message-ID: <F984yEGlgxur4HasvW30000f3ec@hotmail.com>
+X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Feb 2001 03:18:24.0390 (UTC) FILETIME=[20B58260:01C09310]
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+
+Brett
+
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+
+
+From ewert@reflexnet.net Sun Feb 11 03:44:33 2001
+Received: from mailhost01.reflexnet.net (mailhost01.reflexnet.net [64.6.192.82])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1B2iVR69827
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 03:44:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ewert@reflexnet.net)
+Received: from PDXROCH0075 ([216.196.70.75]) by mailhost01.reflexnet.net  with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19);
+	 Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:40:13 -0800
+Message-ID: <001c01c093ba$7f5d6080$4b46c4d8@reflexnet.net>
+From: "Mark Ewert" <ewert@reflexnet.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+It took me awhile to finally compile 0.2 of nevrax.org for windows, but =
+after numerous patches (some of them blatant kludges) I was able to =
+compile both the client and server.
+
+I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on how =
+to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all the =
+code ?
+
+A side note, I found the documentation overall to be quite sparse. I'm =
+sure this is something that will change as the project matures, but for =
+new users/developers especially better documentation would be much =
+appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test ;)
+
+Mark.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It took me awhile to finally compile =
+0.2 of=20
+nevrax.org for windows, but after numerous patches (some of them blatant =
+
+kludges) I was able to compile both the client and server.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought an interesting first step to =
+working with=20
+nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current environment. I =
+have=20
+briefly skimmed the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A side note, I found the documentation =
+overall to=20
+be quite sparse. I'm sure this is something that will change as the =
+project=20
+matures, but for new users/developers especially better documentation =
+would be=20
+much appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test=20
+;)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80--
+
+
+From root@www08.hway.net Sun Feb 11 13:48:54 2001
+Received: from mail05.rapidsite.net (mail05.rapidsite.net [207.158.192.42])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1BCmnR73975
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:48:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from root@www08.hway.net)
+Received: from www08 (207.158.192.88)
+	by mail05.rapidsite.net (RS ver 1.0.58s) with SMTP id 03310146
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 07:46:10 -0500 (EST)
+Received: (from root@localhost)
+	by www08.hway.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id HAA2776527;
+	Sun, 11 Feb 2001 07:46:09 -0500 (EST)
+Message-Id: <200102111246.HAA2776527@www08.hway.net>
+X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on Linux
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+In-Reply-To: <200102111102.f1BB2RR73235@www.nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:46:51 +0100 (CET)
+Organization: none
+From: Tels <nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Loop-Detect: 1
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+IMO it would be a good idea if the list disallowed attachments and/or html.
+HTML (even with javascript/background pictures) is nearly as bad as these
+unreadable vcard attachements and others ;o)
+
+- From my prevois ML experiences a simple rule/guideline to NOT do such
+things is not enough - admins, do you read me? ;)
+
+Oh and hi all. Still struggling with the slashdot effect I at least got the
+code and will start playing with it today.
+
+> Today's Topics:
+>   1. Documentation on Event/Character Scripting (Mark Ewert)
+> --__--__--
+> Message: 1
+> From: "Mark Ewert" <ewert@reflexnet.net>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500
+> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80"
+> Subject: [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+> Content-Type: text/plain;
+>       charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+> Content-Type: text/html;
+>       charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+[snip]
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
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+=cpbF
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Mon Feb 12 09:16:59 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1C8GwR82893
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:16:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA08110
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:20:52 +0100
+Message-ID: <038a01c094cb$b4d5b430$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001c01c093ba$7f5d6080$4b46c4d8@reflexnet.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting
+Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:13:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+Hello Mark and thank you,
+
+>I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the >AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on =
+how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all =
+the code ?
+
+Yes we know and we are very sorry. At present we work on the =
+client/server modele for data distribution modele because events in AI =
+script work on local model. When we finish this work we'll write a doc. =
+It do'nt take long time do do this job.=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Mark and thank you,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;I thought an interesting first step =
+to working=20
+with nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current =
+environment. I have=20
+briefly skimmed the &gt;AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?</FONT></DIV></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes we know and we are very sorry. =
+</FONT><FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2>At present we work on the client/server modele for =
+data=20
+distribution modele because events in AI script work on local model. =
+When we=20
+finish this work we'll write a doc.&nbsp;It do'nt take long time do do =
+this=20
+job.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0--
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 12 10:18:05 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1C9I4R83414
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:18:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09010
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:21:57 +0100
+Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:21:57 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation under VC6
+Message-ID: <20010212102157.K8115@nevrax.com>
+References: <F984yEGlgxur4HasvW30000f3ec@hotmail.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <F984yEGlgxur4HasvW30000f3ec@hotmail.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Slistak Shady:
+> Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+
+Another one for the FAQ "How to compile this beast" :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Mon Feb 12 15:31:49 2001
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1CEViR85747
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:31:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tsm@IDEALX.com)
+Received: from calvin.UUCP (uucp@localhost)
+	by sarajevo.idealx.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with UUCP id f1CESbK24172
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:28:37 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from tsm by calvin.ird.IDEALX.com with local (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian))
+	id 14SJxw-0001uU-00; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:28:32 +0100
+Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:28:32 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux compilation pb
+Message-ID: <20010212152832.A7311@IDEALX.com>
+References: <3A81A1E0.5B169F39@zerodeux.net> <003501c091b3$10c8ea30$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
+In-Reply-To: <003501c091b3$10c8ea30$0901a8c0@vianneyl>; from lecroart@nevrax.com on Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:39:43AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:39:43AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+> It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+> modifications,
+> but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+
+Just a quick word to say that the problem just appeared here. The proposed
+correction seems to work.
+
+Larger report when compilation ends.. :-)
+
+	
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+From moz@oosterveld.org Mon Feb 12 16:18:04 2001
+Received: from cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com (cr889491-a.bloor1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.240.61] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1CFI3R86214
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:18:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from moz@oosterveld.org)
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+	by cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
+	id 14SKhW-0002YK-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:15:38 -0500
+Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:15:38 -0500 (EST)
+From: "Mark W. Oosterveld" <moz@oosterveld.org>
+X-Sender: moz@cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102121006340.9798-100000@cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+  I am one of the slashdot horde that descended on your project
+recently. I have done a cvs checkout of the latest soruce, and am triing
+to compile it under Visual C++ 6.0, sp 4, on both a Windows 98 box (at
+home) and an NT box (at work... don't tell anyone). Anyway, after
+installing STLport, FreeType, Python, and glext.h, I am able to compile
+all the libraries. But, when I try to build the client, I get the
+following error:
+
+
+LINK: warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBC" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe
+
+
+  Unfortunatly, my C++ is a little rusty, and my Windows Programing is
+almost non existant, but there is a main (and a WinMain) in client.cpp.
+I suspect I have a setting wrong in VC, but wouldn't even begin to know
+where to find it.
+
+Mark
+
+P.S. I am most interested in looking at (and possibly working on) the
+server side, but need to get a client up and running before I can really
+start looking at it in depth.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 12 16:54:25 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1CFsOR86493
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:54:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA18129
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:58:17 +0100
+Message-ID: <006d01c0950b$ff8b9310$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102121006340.9798-100000@cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT
+Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:53:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+
+Thanks.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From moz@oosterveld.org Mon Feb 12 17:30:39 2001
+Received: from cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com (cr889491-a.bloor1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.240.61] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1CGUcR86858
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:30:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from moz@oosterveld.org)
+Received: from moz (helo=localhost)
+	by cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
+	id 14SLpm-0002aF-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:28:14 -0500
+Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:28:13 -0500 (EST)
+From: "Mark W. Oosterveld" <moz@oosterveld.org>
+X-Sender: moz@cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT
+In-Reply-To: <006d01c0950b$ff8b9310$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102121126520.9928-100000@cr889491-a.yec1.on.wave.home.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vianney,
+
+  Thank you. That worked perfectly. Now I just have to wait till I get
+home before I can run it. I was pretty sure it was a simple problem, but
+one that would have taken me days to track down. Thanks again.
+
+Mark
+
+On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+> Hello,
+> 
+> It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+> 1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+> the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+> 'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+> 2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+> configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+> search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+> remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+> 3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+> 
+> Thanks.
+> 
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+From zane@users.sourceforge.net Thu Feb 15 19:26:06 2001
+Received: from crap (cx589957-e.alsv1.occa.home.com [65.5.215.36])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1FIQ5R21400
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:26:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zane@users.sourceforge.net)
+Received: from bart.mmsa.com ([205.227.148.2] helo=is64e003)
+	by crap with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian))
+	id 14TT3D-0004HT-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:22:43 -0800
+Message-ID: <026301c0977b$447c1cd0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@users.sourceforge.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:57:56 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+First off I'd like to say hello, I'm new to the list, one of the slashdot
+crowd that have descended upon you. :)  I'm a C/C++/VB^H^H^H/SQL developer
+and I've done mud development as a hobby for years
+(www.sourceforge.net/projects/embermud) so this project was immediately
+interesting to me.  I'm entirely a client/server developer with just a
+rudimentary understanding of 3D so I'll probably be contributing entirely in
+the server or client/server communcation areas.  Few questions for you all
+at Nevrax.
+
+Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+the website obsolete.
+
+Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+:).
+
+I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+
+What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+documentation available but as far I as I can tell there aren't many (or
+any) design documents available.  This would be especially nice for parts of
+the library that have yet to be developed.  Starting work on undeveloped
+portions of the library (the DB portion for instance) might be of interest
+to other developers.
+
+Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+your work to the community?
+
+Forgive me if I'm asking questions with answers that are readily available
+on your web-site but I've done my best to research beforehand.
+
+Thanks,
+E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Feb 16 17:45:10 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1GGjAR28260
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:45:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29246
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:48:57 +0100
+Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:48:57 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS
+Message-ID: <20010216174856.K24026@nevrax.com>
+References: <026301c0977b$447c1cd0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <026301c0977b$447c1cd0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+
+According to Zane:
+> Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+> keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+> NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+> the website obsolete.
+
+Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+
+> Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+> site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+> would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+> offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+> will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+> :).
+
+We could use Slashdot, yes. In fact, there's a NeL project registered
+on it "in case". Why aren't we using Sourceforge? Well, apart from the
+current rumors of source forge growing beyond its possibilities of support,
+we'd lose some of the control we have on the current public system. It's
+a relatively gray area, and one on which we aren't saying much, except,
+"well, right now we aren't".
+
+> I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+> using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+> any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+> write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+> curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+
+License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+(we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+the license from 3DS.
+
+> What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+
+No comment :)
+
+We know we should :)
+
+> Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+> to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+> your work to the community?
+
+Both. Altough we haven't specifically announced things, we have a specific
+program and are opening CVS commit privileges to specific people, so we
+are looking for contributions, at all levels (from simple bug fixes to
+whole features).
+
+We don't guarantee we'll use everything, but if it "fits" within the
+NeL scope, we'll put it in, even if we don't use it ourselves (yet).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Feb 16 19:00:29 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1GI0SR28637
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:00:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA30860
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:04:14 +0100
+Message-ID: <004c01c09842$47fd4ce0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:00:00 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] samples for NeL!!!
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello all!
+
+In the nel directory we'll add a sample directory, you'll see it after the
+syncro of this night.
+It's very simple examples of some NeL features. There's more comments than
+code
+so it could be a very good way to learn how to use NeL.
+I commit them without tested them on linux because I think that it's really
+easy to correct them
+(if necessary) and anyway, people who want to take a look on NeL this week
+end could look them
+(even if they don't compile, there's lot of comment).
+There's no makefile but they'll come next week i think.
+Please, fell free to send bugfix in comment and/or code parts by email
+directly to my
+email (lecroart@nevrax.com) to avoid flooding this mailing list ;)
+
+Enjoy!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Sat Feb 17 22:18:10 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1HLI8R38867
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:18:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
+Received: from cx427786a ([24.178.132.202]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010217211531.TJRG22656.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:15:31 -0800
+Message-ID: <007101c09926$7dfccb60$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:13:35 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] gl.h
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+I get the following errors:
+
+Compiling...
+driver_opengl.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_material.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+#include <GL/glext.h> // Please download it from =
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"
+
+I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which are =
+required).
+
+What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I get the following errors:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT=20
+size=3D2>Compiling...<BR>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_extension.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_material.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_matrix.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_texture.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's =
+a comment=20
+there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing =
+be in=20
+the readme file?)...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;&nbsp;// Please download =
+it from <A=20
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/">http://oss.sgi.com/p=
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/</A>"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&nbsp; I=20
+grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go =
+looking=20
+for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put=20
+them.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... =
+(both of=20
+which are required).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What am I missing?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500--
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Sat Feb 17 22:22:06 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1HLM5R38906
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:22:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
+Received: from cx427786a ([24.178.132.202]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010217211937.TLIH22656.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:19:37 -0800
+Message-ID: <007c01c09927$1075be20$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:17:42 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Linking Services
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again.&nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+"stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+error&nbsp;when linking.&nbsp; I tried searching for references to this =
+.lib in=20
+all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never =
+found=20
+anything.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again, what am I missing?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0--
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Sat Feb 17 22:30:37 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash4.flashmail.com [207.173.216.244])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1HLUaR38964
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:30:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
+Received: (qmail 23229 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 22:27:48 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO cx427786a) (24.178.132.202)
+  by flash4.flashmail.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 22:27:48 -0000
+Message-ID: <008601c09928$3ff164a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <007101c09926$7dfccb60$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:26:03 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives and found the file I =
+needed.  I guess this means the documentation just needs to be updated =
+so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get it.
+
+Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:13 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+  -- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+  I get the following errors:
+
+  Compiling...
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_material.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  Error executing cl.exe.
+
+  Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+  #include <GL/glext.h> // Please download it from =
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"
+
+  I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+  I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which =
+are required).
+
+  What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives =
+and found=20
+the file I needed.&nbsp; I guess this means the documentation just needs =
+to be=20
+updated so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get=20
+it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's the URL for those of you looking for =
+it:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h"><FONT=20
+size=3D3>http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</FONT></A><BR=
+></DIV></FONT>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djmark4@home.com href=3D"mailto:jmark4@home.com">Jared =
+Mark</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:13=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] gl.h</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I get the following errors:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT=20
+  =
+size=3D2>Compiling...<BR>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_extension.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_material.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_matrix.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_texture.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out =
+there's a=20
+  comment there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort =
+of=20
+  thing be in the readme file?)...</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;&nbsp;// Please =
+download it from=20
+  <A=20
+  =
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/">http://oss.sgi.com/p=
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/</A>"</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&nbsp; I=20
+  grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can =
+go=20
+  looking for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to =
+put=20
+  them.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or =
+gl.h... (both=20
+  of which are required).</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>What am I =
+missing?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480--
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Sat Feb 17 22:48:45 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1HLmiR39104
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:48:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
+Received: from cx427786a ([24.178.132.202]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010217214615.TVTH22656.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:46:15 -0800
+Message-ID: <009201c0992a$c8e06840$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <007c01c09927$1075be20$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linking Services
+Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:44:19 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the way... forgot to =
+change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL okay... and =
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).
+
+I was getting the error from the glext.h when building the =
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but then it goes to link and gives me this:
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "stlport_vc6.lib"
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Which I'm assuming is why the services link is getting the error I =
+described below...
+
+So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with stlport.  Please =
+forgive me for being such a novice programmer. :)
+
+Can anyone help?
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:17 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] Linking Services
+
+
+  Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+  Linking...
+  LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file =
+"stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"
+  Error executing link.exe.
+
+  Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+  Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the =
+way...=20
+forgot to change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL =
+okay... and=20
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services=20
+error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was getting the error from the glext.h when =
+building the=20
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but=20
+then it goes to link and gives me this:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+"stlport_vc6.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Which I'm assuming is why the services link is =
+getting the=20
+error I described below...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with =
+
+stlport.&nbsp; Please forgive me for being such a novice programmer.=20
+:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Can anyone help?</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djmark4@home.com href=3D"mailto:jmark4@home.com">Jared =
+Mark</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:17=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Linking =
+Services</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again.&nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+  "stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+  error&nbsp;when linking.&nbsp; I tried searching for references to =
+this .lib=20
+  in all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and =
+never=20
+  found anything.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again, what am I=20
+missing?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0--
+
+
+From slistak@hotmail.com Sun Feb 18 09:44:46 2001
+Received: from hotmail.com (f114.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.114])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1I8ijR42478
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:44:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from slistak@hotmail.com)
+Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC;
+	 Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:42:11 -0800
+Received: from 63.197.8.85 by pv1fd.pav1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;	Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:42:10 GMT
+X-Originating-IP: [63.197.8.85]
+From: "Slistak Shady" <slistak@hotmail.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:42:10 -0000
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
+Message-ID: <F114OvHlPwZxOq7xgtC000175a3@hotmail.com>
+X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2001 08:42:11.0059 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF35F430:01C09986]
+Subject: [Nel] Link Error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is current 
+up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help? 
+Thanks.
+
+
+Linking...
+MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib" 
+conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol 
+_psaux_module_class
+Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Sun Feb 18 12:28:52 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1IBSpR43231
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:28:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
+Received: from cx427786a ([24.178.132.202]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010218112623.EWPM22656.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 03:26:23 -0800
+Message-ID: <001701c0999d$6bd7e4c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 05:24:55 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, and freetype...=20
+
+I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused about freetype.  I =
+do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, but it's not =
+named "freetype.lib"... it's named "freetype200b8MT.lib".  at one point =
+it created "freetype200b8.lib" also.
+
+I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the services .exe files to =
+compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)  I have all of the =
+client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle perhaps?).
+
+Client Files Project was not compiling because it said it needed =
+"freetype.lib".  Fine... I tried renaming the freetype200b8.lib file to =
+freetype.lib.  Didn't work.  So I tried the other one (the multithreaded =
+one), and it didn't work either.
+
+Here's what it's telling me...
+
+--------------------Configuration: client - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Linking...
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must not be doing =
+something right with freetype during the making of it.
+
+So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I had had some =
+problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured since =
+I had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project =
+files for freetype... here's what they're telling me.
+
+Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) build 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'
+Compiling...
+common.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or directory
+ftdump.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, so y'all get the =
+idea.
+
+It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to figure =
+it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know I'm =
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something obvious or not.  If it's not something obvious, could someone =
+help me? :)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, =
+and=20
+freetype... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused =
+about=20
+freetype.&nbsp; I do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, =
+but=20
+it's not named "freetype.lib"... it's named "freetype200b8MT.lib".&nbsp; =
+at one=20
+point it created "freetype200b8.lib" also.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the =
+services .exe=20
+files to compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)&nbsp; I =
+have all=20
+of the client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle=20
+perhaps?).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Client Files Project was not compiling because it =
+said it=20
+needed "freetype.lib".&nbsp; Fine... I tried renaming the =
+freetype200b8.lib file=20
+to freetype.lib.&nbsp; Didn't work.&nbsp; So I tried the other one (the=20
+multithreaded one), and it didn't work either.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's what it's telling me...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: client - Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Linking...<BR>LINK : warning =
+LNK4098:=20
+defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library<BR>freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class<BR>MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error =
+LNK2001:=20
+unresolved external symbol _main<BR>ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals<BR>Error executing =
+link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 =
+warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must =
+not be=20
+doing something right with freetype during the making of =
+it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I =
+had had=20
+some problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured =
+since I=20
+had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project files =
+for=20
+freetype... here's what they're telling me.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) =
+build=20
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'<BR>Compiling..=
+.<BR>common.c<BR>fatal=20
+error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>ftdump.c<BR>fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: =
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, =
+so y'all=20
+get the idea.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll =
+be able=20
+to figure it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know =
+I'm=20
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something=20
+obvious or not.&nbsp; If it's not something obvious, could someone help =
+me?=20
+:)</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980--
+
+
+From root@www08.hway.net Sun Feb 18 13:30:09 2001
+Received: from mail01a.rapidsite.net (mail01a.rapidsite.net [207.158.192.230])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1ICU8R43584
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:30:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from root@www08.hway.net)
+Received: from www08.hway.net (207.158.192.88)
+	by mail01a.rapidsite.net (RS ver 1.0.58s) with SMTP id 02906225
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 07:27:01 -0500 (EST)
+Received: (from root@localhost)
+	by www08.hway.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id HAA4820945;
+	Sun, 18 Feb 2001 07:27:00 -0500 (EST)
+Message-Id: <200102181227.HAA4820945@www08.hway.net>
+X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on Linux
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+In-Reply-To: <200102181101.f1IB15R43104@www.nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:27:30 +0100 (CET)
+Organization: none
+From: Tels <nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Loop-Detect: 1
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling under Linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+several nitpicks after my 2-hour adventures with ./configure under
+linux/gcc (SuSE 7.0):
+
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+
+http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/ seems to be the new
+url.
+
+StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+there is no "make install" for unix. Does this matter? I also run low on
+diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut down the size after
+making it?
+
+#checking for freetype-config... no
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+of freetype (which I was to delete).
+
+So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have "." in it's path.
+Now I try configure as user and get this:
+
+#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+#yes
+#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+
+Now my hour for this day is running out...
+
+The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+wrong and level one is named "./configure" ? ;-P
+
+Tels
+
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOo+4oncLPEOTuEwVAQEgbwf9GkgUnGjpRdaVlEc9cVgqIh+XfIHUk4+1
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+=zPt+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+From root@www08.hway.net Sun Feb 18 16:09:59 2001
+Received: from mail01b.rapidsite.net (mail01b.rapidsite.net [207.158.192.229])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1IF9wR44421
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:09:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from root@www08.hway.net)
+Received: from www08.hway.net (207.158.192.88)
+	by mail01b.rapidsite.net (RS ver 1.0.58s) with SMTP id 02740459
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:06:50 -0500 (EST)
+Received: (from root@localhost)
+	by www08.hway.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA4285043;
+	Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:06:50 -0500 (EST)
+Message-Id: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net>
+X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on Linux
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:07:20 +0100 (CET)
+Organization: none
+From: Tels <nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Loop-Detect: 1
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+On 18-Feb-01 Tels tried to scribble about:
+[snip]
+>#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+>#yes
+>#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+>#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+
+I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
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+/5/NSeaNu4c4mmlnWgcvmiyJZisJqm87QnljMzOnWoySHJyCU9vl6w==
+=Bbg8
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Sun Feb 18 21:52:55 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash3.flashmail.com [207.173.216.243])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1IKqsR45954
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:52:55 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <000d01c099ec$37179d80$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <F114OvHlPwZxOq7xgtC000175a3@hotmail.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Link Error
+Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:48:57 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a lot like the thing I'm getting... especially the "use
+/nodefaultlib" thing.  I saw that and didn't know what it was referring to,
+or where I would have to "use" it.
+
+I wish someone could help us. :(
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Slistak Shady" <slistak@hotmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 2:42 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Link Error
+
+
+> I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is
+current
+> up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help?
+> Thanks.
+>
+>
+> Linking...
+> MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib"
+> conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _psaux_module_class
+> Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+> Error executing link.exe.
+> _________________________________________________________________
+> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From jhognon@chello.fr Sun Feb 18 22:34:42 2001
+Received: from frmta00.chello.fr (smtp.chello.fr [212.186.224.11])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1ILYgR46159
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:34:42 +0100 (CET)
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:32:03 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A903FF8.CA1C8187@chello.fr>
+Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:34:48 +0100
+From: Julien Hognon <jhognon@chello.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [fr] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
+X-Accept-Language: fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...
+References: <001701c0999d$6bd7e4c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+(look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+buildings Nel under win32)
+
+> Jared Mark a écrit :
+[...]
+> Here's what it's telling me...
+> 
+> --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+> ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> Linking...
+> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of
+> other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _psaux_module_class
+> MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _main
+> ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+> externals
+> Error executing link.exe.
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke    
+
+home 		: jhognon@chello.fr
+university	: jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr
+work		: julien@virtools.com
+
+ICQ number : 36110826
+
+From jmark4@home.com Mon Feb 19 02:08:10 2001
+Received: from femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.86])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1J189R47813
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:05:39 -0800
+Message-ID: <001101c09a0f$dd350400$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001701c0999d$6bd7e4c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <3A903FF8.CA1C8187@chello.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...
+Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:04:08 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Okay, that worked... thanks
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Julien Hognon" <jhognon@chello.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 3:34 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...
+
+
+> Hi,
+> Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+> (look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+> buildings Nel under win32)
+>
+> > Jared Mark a écrit :
+> [...]
+> > Here's what it's telling me...
+> >
+> > --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+> > ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> > Linking...
+> > LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of
+> > other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> > _psaux_module_class
+> > MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> > _main
+> > ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+> > externals
+> > Error executing link.exe.
+> >
+>
+>
+> --
+> HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke
+>
+> home : jhognon@chello.fr
+> university : jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr
+> work : julien@virtools.com
+>
+> ICQ number : 36110826
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 19 11:12:07 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JAC6R50339
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:12:06 +0100 (CET)
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+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01780
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:15:49 +0100
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:15:49 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux
+Message-ID: <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Tels:
+> >#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+> >#yes
+> >#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+> >#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+> 
+> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+Wow. And linux kept on working?
+
+On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Feb 19 12:52:58 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JBquR50949
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:52:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7966AA
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:54:25 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:49:15 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.1 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling under Linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+As root :
+
+# mknod /dev/null c 1 3
+# chmod 666 /dev/null
+
+... and it's back to life again !
+
+From viktor@glaze.se Mon Feb 19 15:39:33 2001
+Received: from rocket.glaze.se ([212.209.188.162])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JEdWR51873
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:39:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from viktor@glaze.se)
+Received: from viktorw2k (unknown [192.168.0.155])
+	by rocket.glaze.se (Postfix) with SMTP id 535142726B
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:35:19 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se>
+From: "Glaze" <viktor@glaze.se>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net>
+Subject:  [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:37:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+
+Viktor Godaly
+
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Mon Feb 19 16:34:42 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash4.flashmail.com [207.173.216.244])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1JFYdR52236
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:34:40 +0100 (CET)
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+  by flash4.flashmail.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:33:24 -0000
+Message-ID: <003e01c09a88$e52dfd00$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se>
+Subject: Re:  [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:30:26 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Glaze" <viktor@glaze.se>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:37 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+> Hello,
+>
+> I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it.
+I
+> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+>
+> Viktor Godaly
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 19 16:35:05 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JFZ2R52250
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:35:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA08394
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:42 +0100
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:41 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS
+Message-ID: <20010219163841.W4719@nevrax.com>
+References: <026301c0977b$447c1cd0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010216174856.K24026@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Vincent Archer:
+> Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+
+More detail today, as promised :)
+
+> According to Zane:
+> > Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+> > keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+> > NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+> > the website obsolete.
+> 
+> Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+
+We're still using the published data here, so it should not have been
+a problem. Are you sure you are using the latest data file? There are
+two on the web now, an old (NeL 0.2/Snowballs 0.1) and a new (NeL 0.3
+& Snowballs 0.2) packed format (which is a lot smaller).
+
+If you're using the one that came with the very first release, update. If
+not, then there's something very odd going on. Open a bug then, and we'll
+have a deep look at it.
+
+However, the point you raise is good, because one day we might encounter
+that specific problem. I'm checking exactly how we're going to put it,
+whether in the code/client tree, a specific code/data tree, or a
+fully separate module (since it isn't code per se).
+
+> License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+> a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+> (we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+> license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+> the license from 3DS.
+
+I want to stress "we haven't... yet". We're trying to find a good solution
+to that problem (which basically boils down to using proprietary software
+right now, which limits our freedom of action, as usual).
+
+> > What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+
+We're working on redoing the way we document things. Doxygen is good,
+but if no one writes documentation for it, it's as instructive as trying
+to learn tu use Unix from just the manual pages.
+
+But that's the usual problem with programming: programmers are interested
+in writing code, not writing prose. We strive to keep them from sliding
+too much in code-only mode :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Feb 19 16:52:51 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JFqlR52409
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:52:48 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:51:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:51:54 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+Message-ID: <20010219165154.A27739@nevrax.com>
+References: <007101c09926$7dfccb60$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <008601c09928$3ff164a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <008601c09928$3ff164a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>; from eagleeye@flashmail.com on Sat, Feb 17, 2001 at 03:26:03PM -0600
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+EagleEye wrote:
+> 
+> Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the "Requirements" section.
+I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on it,
+but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile NeL,
+there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 19 17:01:09 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:04:15 +0100
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:04:15 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-ID: <20010219170415.Z4719@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <003e01c09a88$e52dfd00$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to EagleEye:
+> I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+> cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+> that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+
+That's not dynamic load balancing if you have to assign servers to a
+specific area. That's merely 'reconfigurable static' :)
+
+Ultima Online did this for their servers. They measured during beta
+a lot of statistics, and created a map of areas for allocation to all
+processors (server being ambiguous here, because their servers were
+multiprocessor boxes). That map could be redone at will, depending on
+the number of processors allocated to a shard. But once the shard was
+started, that was it. The only way to add a processor would be to
+split one area in two, and the whole migration process was hard
+enough that it wasn't worth (their words) the development cost vs the
+number of times it would be used.
+
+True dynamic load would mean that each processor would adjust its
+border (i.e. which objets it manages) according to its load, compared to
+its neighbours. If it has too high a load, then its border would shrink
+along its most lightly loaded neighbour, swapping objects between one
+and the other.
+
+Of course, that means a variable, almost fractal geometry of processors,
+and a processor that, at boot time, was serving city A and its adjacent
+areas could well, four days later, be serving chiefly the mountain range
+5km from there, because of simple "pressure". It looks nice from a
+strict research standpoint, but it's HELL for system management.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 19 17:29:56 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-ID: <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Glaze:
+> Hello,
+> 
+> I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+
+Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+haven't answered this question.
+
+Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+
+If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+
+We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+each area is strictly separate).
+
+We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+   which process control
+
+What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+And so on.
+
+I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From root@www08.hway.net Mon Feb 19 18:25:46 2001
+Received: from mail07.rapidsite.net (mail07.rapidsite.net [207.158.192.51])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1JHPgR53088
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:25:44 +0100 (CET)
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+	Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:22:56 -0500 (EST)
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+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:23:23 +0100 (CET)
+Organization: none
+From: Tels <tels@bloodgate.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Loop-Detect: 1
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Dave Null
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+> According to Tels:
+>> >#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+>> >#yes
+>> >#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+>> >#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+>> 
+>> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+> 
+> Wow. And linux kept on working?
+
+Until the next reboot, yes. Linux is more stable than I thought ;o)
+
+> On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+> straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+> as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+
+I booted from rescue disk (thanx suse!), then copied over /dev/zero.
+Unfortunately /dev/null got (why I dunno) 600, so user processes could not
+use it, so I changed it and now it seems to work all again. Whew. Now I
+need more time to figure out Nel.
+
+Cheers,
+
+Tels
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
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+=Dlhm
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Feb 19 18:53:41 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JHreR53273
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:53:40 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:52:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:52:51 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling under Linux
+Message-ID: <20010219185251.A28245@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181101.f1IB15R43104@www.nevrax.org> <200102181227.HAA4820945@www08.hway.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <200102181227.HAA4820945@www08.hway.net>; from nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com on Sun, Feb 18, 2001 at 01:27:30PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Tels wrote:
+> 
+> Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+> 
+> http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/ seems to be the new
+> url.
+
+Try the american mirror web site at http://freetype.sourceforge.net/, you
+will have access to the all the project home page.
+
+I updated the INSTALL and configure.in file to change tha FreeType
+homepage.
+
+
+> StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+> please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+> there is no "make install" for unix. Does this matter?
+
+NeL is using the SGI iostreams, so i'm afraid that you will have to compile
+it.
+
+
+> I also run low on diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut
+> down the size after making it?
+
+you could do a 'make -f gcc.mak clean' to delete all the ojects files,
+it doesn't delete the library files ...
+
+
+> #checking for freetype-config... no
+> #configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+> #    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+> 
+> Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+> of freetype (which I was to delete).
+
+That's weird, it works fine for me :o)
+
+The installation line is in the builds/unix/install.mk file (line 51),
+Are you sure that the installation directory (ex: /usr/local/bin) is
+in your path ?
+
+> So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have "." in it's path.
+> Now I try configure as user and get this:
+
+The script is looking for freetype-config script in your path, it will change
+nothing to put in the NeL directoty, if it isn't in your path ;-)
+
+
+> The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+> for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+> wrong and level one is named "./configure" ? ;-P
+
+Thanks for your suggestion :-)
+
+We actually working on improving the documentation and build process, so it
+"migth" be easier in a near future ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From ngreco@softhome.net Mon Feb 19 19:48:45 2001
+Received: from turing.codelarvs.com.ar (ADSL253-235.advancedsl.com.ar [200.51.253.235])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JImfR53534
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:04 -0300 (ART)
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:01 -0300
+From: Nahuel Greco <ngreco@softhome.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-Id: <20010219154601.6d040b28.ngreco@softhome.net>
+In-Reply-To: <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se>
+	<20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com>
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> According to Glaze:
+> > Hello,
+> > 
+> > I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+> > was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> > the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> > balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+> 
+> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+> haven't answered this question.
+> 
+> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+> 
+> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+> 
+
+You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+
+
+> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+> each area is strictly separate).
+> 
+> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+>    which process control
+> 
+> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+> And so on.
+> 
+
+What are the "functional" parts that you will be planning? 
+
+
+How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+
+
+There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+
+
+> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+> 
+>
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+From jmark4@home.com Mon Feb 19 22:48:10 2001
+Received: from femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.87])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JLm4R54458
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:48:04 +0100 (CET)
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:45:33 -0800
+Message-ID: <006101c09abd$11da75c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:43:59 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+
+By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+or on an even more molecular level (assuming you have a very large world
+with huge database demands) a database service that is strictly dedicated to
+handling certain types of objects (like dynamic world objects such as rocks
+and such, as opposed to character objects like their posessions in their
+backpacks for example).
+
+You would have other servers running the service managers for the AI of the
+monsters, etc, etc, etc...
+
+So instead of dividing up the world into geographical sectors and having a
+single system handle each sector... you would divide the world up into
+different processes, and have each system handle the specific process for
+the entire world.
+
+Let me know if I'm getting pretty close to what you're trying to say here.
+;)  My only question on the whole thing would be... what happens if you run
+into a problem where activity on a process gets to be too much for a
+server... would you be forced to upgrade that server?  Or could you
+theoretically split the process between two systems?  (running the same
+serice twice in the same cluster, on different systems).
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 10:33 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+> According to Glaze:
+> > Hello,
+> >
+> > I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask
+it. I
+> > was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to
+balance
+> > the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> > balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+>
+> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+> haven't answered this question.
+>
+> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+>
+> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+>
+> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+> each area is strictly separate).
+>
+> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+>    which process control
+>
+> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+> And so on.
+>
+> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+>
+> --
+> Vincent Archer                                         Email:
+archer@nevrax.com
+>
+> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road
+we go!
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Mon Feb 19 22:50:54 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash2.flashmail.com [207.173.216.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1JLoqR54491
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:50:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
+Received: (qmail 31969 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 22:49:38 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO cx427786a) (24.178.132.202)
+  by flash2.flashmail.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 22:49:38 -0000
+Message-ID: <007001c09abd$75a332e0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <007101c09926$7dfccb60$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <008601c09928$3ff164a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010219165154.A27739@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:39 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+under the heading of  "On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+libraries and softwares :"... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+let my mind skip over it. :)
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Valignat Cedric" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:51 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+> EagleEye wrote:
+> >
+> > Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+> > http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+>
+> There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the "Requirements"
+section.
+> I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on
+it,
+> but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile
+NeL,
+> there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Mon Feb 19 23:00:08 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JM07R54558
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:00:08 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
+Received: from cx427786a ([24.178.132.202]) by femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010219215734.MHMK22656.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:57:34 -0800
+Message-ID: <001501c09abe$bf4667e0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:56:00 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Building a FAQ?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+What better way to build a FAQ than to have questions that are actually =
+"frequently asked", right?
+
+Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm not exactly an =
+above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my =
+limited experience and expertise.
+
+1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled, =
+what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE to =
+edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle all =
+game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the core =
+components?
+
+2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, =
+etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you =
+can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software =
+restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank =
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I =
+have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in =
+terms of latteral area?)
+
+That's it for now...=20
+
+Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)
+--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with this stuff still. :)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What better way to build a FAQ than to have =
+questions that are=20
+actually "frequently asked", right?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm =
+not exactly=20
+an above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions=20
+that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my limited =
+experience and=20
+expertise.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services =
+packages all=20
+compiled, what do I do with it to actually start building MY =
+world?&nbsp; Do I=20
+HAVE to edit the code and recompile?&nbsp; Or is this package meant to =
+handle=20
+all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the =
+core=20
+components?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) What are the limitations on world size, max =
+number of=20
+connections, etc, etc?&nbsp; I understand there are obvious hardware=20
+restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking =
+about=20
+software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a =
+bank=20
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?&nbsp; Will =
+I have=20
+issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of =
+latteral=20
+area?)<BR></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That's it for now... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with =
+this stuff=20
+still. :)</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220--
+
+
+From james.hearn@byu.edu Tue Feb 20 00:45:10 2001
+Received: from email2.byu.edu (SYSTEM@email2.byu.edu [128.187.22.134])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1JNj9R55124
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:45:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from james.hearn@byu.edu)
+Received: from byu.edu (james@Mustang.rn.byu.edu [128.187.227.186])
+ by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V6.0-24 #45325)
+ with ESMTPA id <01K0AUU07LO2923LE0@EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for nel@nevrax.org; Mon,
+ 19 Feb 2001 16:42:16 -0700 (MST)
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:42:40 -0600
+From: James Hearn <james.hearn@byu.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-id: <3A91A160.5B071098@byu.edu>
+MIME-version: 1.0
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i686)
+Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
+X-Accept-Language: en
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling on Linux....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm having trouble getting Nel
+to compile on linux. Or rather, getting the client and server to compile
+on linux. Nel itself compiles. When compiling the client or server
+libraries, I get this error:
+
+/home/james/downloads/STLport-4.0/lib/libstlport_gcc.so: undefined
+reference to `_STL::_Stl_prime<bool>::_M_list'
+
+I have installed the stlport libs and even compiled them (!). 
+I also installed Freetype 2.0 and Mesa 4.0.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+
+James Hearn
+
+From jmark4@home.com Tue Feb 20 01:45:55 2001
+Received: from femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.86])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1K0joR55459
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:45:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
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+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010220004320.OOHD26098.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:43:20 -0800
+Message-ID: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:41:44 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+
+I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core =
+engine...
+I then try to get people to play the game...
+People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+but no profit can be made on that...)
+I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of =
+money...
+
+But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can =
+request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's =
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+
+So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my =
+game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my =
+entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" =
+that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service =
+themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+
+If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the =
+whole "open source" thing...=20
+
+My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want =
+to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort =
+of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a =
+"bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT =
+stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+*scratches head*=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I just want to make sure I understand this=20
+right...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I use this source code to build the base of my=20
+game...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I do all sorts of work to make my own game built =
+around this=20
+core engine...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I then try to get people to play the =
+game...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>People get the game (for free, or at least, for the =
+cost of=20
+shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I charge for the monthly service to the game, and =
+make boat=20
+loads of money...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But then, because of the way this license reads, =
+someone else=20
+can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game =
+that's=20
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So if all of the above is correct... what is the =
+point of me=20
+making my game using NeL in the first place?&nbsp; When someone can just =
+steal=20
+my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive =
+works" that=20
+are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... =
+
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If I'm completely off here, I appologise.&nbsp; I'm =
+extremely=20
+new to the whole "open source" thing... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay =
+concepts=20
+that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, =
+or any=20
+sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I =
+consider a=20
+"bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this=20
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if =
+I choose=20
+to use NeL as my core code?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>*scratches head*&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0--
+
+
+From bryce@neptune.net Tue Feb 20 02:15:10 2001
+Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (IDENT:bryce@pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1K1F9R56042
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:15:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from bryce@neptune.net)
+Received: from localhost (bryce@localhost)
+	by pulsar.neptune.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1K1Cct03510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:12:38 -0800
+X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:12:38 -0800 (PST)
+From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+In-Reply-To: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102191700320.24101-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+their license.
+
+NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+
+NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+reliability, and customer service.
+
+(This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+
+Bryce
+
+On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+
+> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> 
+> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+> I then try to get people to play the game...
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+> 
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+> 
+> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> 
+> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole "open source" thing... 
+> 
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> 
+> *scratches head* 
+> 
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket Scientist
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE iMSDW
+bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @ yahoo.com
+
+
+From james.hearn@byu.edu Tue Feb 20 02:34:48 2001
+Received: from email2.byu.edu (SYSTEM@email2.byu.edu [128.187.22.134])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1K1YlR56142
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:34:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from james.hearn@byu.edu)
+Received: from byu.edu (james@Mustang.rn.byu.edu [128.187.227.186])
+ by EMAIL1.BYU.EDU (PMDF V6.0-24 #45325)
+ with ESMTPA id <01K0AYO8RST293AB4J@EMAIL1.BYU.EDU> for nel@nevrax.org; Mon,
+ 19 Feb 2001 18:32:09 -0700 (MST)
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:32:33 -0600
+From: James Hearn <james.hearn@byu.edu>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-id: <3A91BB21.BBD63333@byu.edu>
+MIME-version: 1.0
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.13 i686)
+Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
+X-Accept-Language: en
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102191700320.24101-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> 
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+> 
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+> 
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+> 
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+> 
+> Bryce
+> 
+> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+> 
+> > I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> >
+> > I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> > I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+> > I then try to get people to play the game...
+> > People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+> > I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+> >
+> > But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+> >
+> > So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> >
+> > If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole "open source" thing...
+> >
+> > My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> >
+> > *scratches head*
+> >
+
+I've been speaking with Jared, and it seems he is not opposed to open
+source. However, he wonders (as do I) where Nel ends and our code
+begins. Does any project using nel have to release *all* of its source
+code? Or just modifications to Nel itself? Modifications to Nel should
+*of course* be open source. It is basically things like game logic that
+Jared is concerned about.
+
+--James Hearn
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Feb 20 02:38:23 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:35:48 +0800 (WST)
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:35:48 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Message-ID: <20010220093548.A37896@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102191700320.24101-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102191700320.24101-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>; from bryce@neptune.net on Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+In return for giving a good base set of libraries, Nevrax hope to get 
+lots of free contributions to their project. This isn't as evil as it sounds
+since everyone is still free to work on whatever parts they like, and
+hopefully they will remain fairly lenient on what features make it in to the
+repository. (Ie, don't just include what _they_ want. I don't imply
+they should be lenient on content. Be code nazis, keep ugly code out :P)
+Of course, if they behave in a manner you feel is not conducive to
+the spirit of open-source development, you're free to split off your own 
+version of the tree.
+
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+
+This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+
+What they do get of course, is that little mod you did to the game engine
+for pretty-as-hell lens effects. Or your modified particle engine
+to accurately model a fireball. Anyone who looks at the current crop of games
+will tell you that it's not this sort of thing that makes or breaks a game.
+
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+Yeah, ditto the not associated with Nevrax thing... 
+unless they feel like hiring of course ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Tue Feb 20 02:40:05 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash2.flashmail.com [207.173.216.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1K1e2R56216
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 02:40:04 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <002001c09add$77818240$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102191700320.24101-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:26:46 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering "exactly
+where does their code stop, and my code begin?"
+
+Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+my world.
+
+I can understand sharing a new add-on, such as the ability to use DirectX 8
+with NeL... I can understand adding functionality to the core engine... that
+I wouldn't mind giving up to the general masses.  Heck, I don't care if I
+give up the artwork!  What's important to me is keeping my gameplay designs
+proprietary.  I don't want someone copying my game's LOGIC... because to me,
+that's what will make my game innovative, and will be the main reason people
+will play it.  If I give that up freely, I might as well go for a different
+core package.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:12 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+
+
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+>
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+>
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+>
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+>
+> Bryce
+>
+> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+>
+> > I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> >
+> > I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> > I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+engine...
+> > I then try to get people to play the game...
+> > People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+but no profit can be made on that...)
+> > I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+money...
+> >
+> > But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can
+request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+> >
+> > So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire
+game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are
+packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves...
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> >
+> > If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the
+whole "open source" thing...
+> >
+> > My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want
+to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of
+innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger
+and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I
+choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> >
+> > *scratches head*
+> >
+>
+> --
+> Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket
+Scientist
+> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
+----
+> SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE
+iMSDW
+> bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @
+yahoo.com
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From svferro@earthlink.com Tue Feb 20 02:50:32 2001
+Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1K1oSR56279
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:47:55 -0800 (PST)
+Message-ID: <000701c09adf$8a2048d0$0200a8c0@fast>
+From: "Sal" <svferro@earthlink.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:50:42 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+engine...
+> I then try to get people to play the game...
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+but no profit can be made on
+> that...)
+
+    The last point isn't necessarily true.  You could likely sell your game
+for as much as you want.  As Red Hat sells Linux.  The GPL only insures that
+the source code to the binaries in your distribution must be made available.
+It doesn't cover the media you make, the documentation you write. People
+don't have the right to redistribute your custom media, or your custom game
+manuals.  Downloading the binary still won't grant you ability to play the
+game... you need the media.  Which is where the advantage is in the GPL game
+market in comparison to something like an operating system, such as Linux.
+
+    In short, you can still make money off of a GPL game.  Though I would
+rather see companies release all their artwork under an opencontent license,
+they don't have to.
+
+> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+money...
+
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request
+the entire source code to
+> my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people
+to use it just like I am
+> doing...
+
+    If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+would have to be redistributed, but you could create pretty unique worlds
+and plots by simply editing some serverside database.  Which entails
+creating maps, placing NPCs, possibly even defining rules such as what
+skills players have.
+
+    I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+be copywritten material.
+
+    And if you were able to modify the Nel code to make a better game...
+then someone that uses your code could likely make a better game yet. And
+the code that they created, you could use yet again in your own server.
+Opensource has many advantages related to software quality. Imagine how many
+people would be working to fix bugs and improve the codebase that is
+powering your world, in comparison to a proprietary codebase.
+
+> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+game using
+> NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not
+just
+> the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with
+it as a
+> whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of
+the loop
+> entirely.
+
+    I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+(not artwork, media. documentation, rules, etc.).  And I think its fair that
+you would be required to release your source changes, since its the hard
+work of others that makes your game possible, and they just want to make
+sure that your code improvements to their product will be made available.
+
+    Again, your game could have plenty of copywritten material that would
+not be easily 'stolen', and in fact, would be the equivalent of stealing the
+ruleset and media from an proprietary game, such as Asheron's Call or
+Everquest.  Which is prosecutable.
+
+    Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+
+    I also could not sell CD's of Everquest, because in order for their
+client to be useful it needs all the copywritten material that comes on the
+Everquest CD.
+
+> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+"open source"
+> thing...
+
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to
+implement...
+> having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative
+programming...
+> I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than
+anything UO or
+> EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I
+have to give all of
+> THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+    Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+_everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+libraries used in conjunction with them.
+
+    I'm not a lawyer, by any means. But I have some experience in developing
+opensource gaming software. I think a lot of people share the same
+misconceptions, which is why I felt compelled to reply.  I'm of the opinion
+that opensource and games are a perfect match.  Its really a no-lose
+situation, if you're thinking of developing your own game.
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+
+From bryce@neptune.net Tue Feb 20 03:48:01 2001
+Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (IDENT:bryce@pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12])
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+X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs
+Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:45:30 -0800 (PST)
+From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+In-Reply-To: <20010220093548.A37896@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102191818170.6770-100000@pulsar.neptune.net>
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> > If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> > closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> > out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> > quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> > their license.
+> This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+> would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+> even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+> game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+> it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+> the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+
+That's true; I meant only the IP additions to the NEL sourcecode, which
+appeared to be what the original poster was interested in.  As Sal said,
+the game content would be handled differently.
+
+I'm less sure of the rules regarding dynamic linking and scripting.  I
+think "linking is linking", so the former would fall under GPL rules,
+whereas the latter I would hazard to guess falls more into the "content"
+category and thus can be arbitrarily licensed.  But this seems like a
+very grey area, and seeking out ways to get around the author's intents
+and use their work on terms of dubious legality doesn't seem like a
+kosher thing to do.  
+
+In any case, you can always try negotiating with Nevrax for special
+licensing terms; I'm sure they're open to making more money.  ;-)
+ 
+Bryce
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Feb 20 10:46:18 2001
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:45:20 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:45:20 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+Message-ID: <20010220104520.A31732@nevrax.com>
+References: <007101c09926$7dfccb60$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <008601c09928$3ff164a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010219165154.A27739@nevrax.com> <007001c09abd$75a332e0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <007001c09abd$75a332e0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>; from eagleeye@flashmail.com on Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:46:39PM -0600
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+EagleEye wrote:
+> Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+> under the heading of  "On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+> libraries and softwares :"... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+> let my mind skip over it. :)
+
+You right, it isn't very clear, i going to fix that ... :-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From tsm@idealx.com Tue Feb 20 11:36:15 2001
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1KAa9R58816
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:36:11 +0100 (CET)
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+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:56:54 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-ID: <20010220105654.A15852@IDEALX.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com> <006101c09abd$11da75c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <006101c09abd$11da75c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>; from jmark4@home.com on Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+> Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+> 
+> By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+> different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+> would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+> and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+
+We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+
+The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+think.
+
+One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+(?)
+
+Best regards,
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Feb 20 14:16:52 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1KDGqR59685
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:16:52 +0100 (CET)
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+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27225
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-ID: <20010220142032.H26264@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com> <006101c09abd$11da75c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220105654.A15852@IDEALX.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Thierry Mallard:
+> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+> > Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+> > 
+> > By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+> > different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+> > would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+> > and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+
+Basically, yes. It may be more complicated than this. For example, we must
+strive to keep only a single service handling items, while we may run
+multiple concurrent instances of AI services to have lots of smart bots.
+
+> We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+> doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+> world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+
+It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+modes.
+
+> The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+> respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+> think.
+> 
+> One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+> computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+> process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+
+It is. In fact, a lot of services will be spread across different nodes,
+but that's because these services are 'linear': each agent it manages
+deals chiefly with itself. On the other hand, some are harder to split.
+Item management for example, because of ownership and transfer issues:
+if item A is owner by entity E, and all items of entity E are on server S1,
+what happens when item is given to entity D, whose items are all on the
+server S2. You break locality, which defeats the purpose of functional
+services.
+
+However, for load balancing purpose, one feature of functional split is
+quite simple. If your item server, for example, manages 300,000 currently
+present items, it doesn't matter if everyone currently on-line decides
+to cluster in a single city: there are still 300,000 items to manage, and
+the amount of item interactions haven't changed much.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Feb 20 14:31:22 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1KDVLR59790
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27484
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-ID: <20010220143501.I26264@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com> <20010219154601.6d040b28.ngreco@softhome.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Nahuel Greco:
+> You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+
+Not CORBA. As I said, 'a kind of ORB approach'. Not a straight lift
+from existing solutions, who are nice from a development point of view,
+but whose features are too generic and too heavy for optimisation.
+
+> What are the "functional" parts that you will be planning? 
+
+I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+but you'll have chiefly:
+- access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+  requests)
+- PC manager services
+- combat services
+- item services
+- databaser service (only one)
+- pathfinding services
+- bots service (AI)
+- magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+  other services as exceptions to their rules)
+
+then some geographic-based services
+
+- ecology managers
+- state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+  ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+  all it does)
+
+and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+
+I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+agent for some cases.
+
+> How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+> in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+> enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+> the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+
+We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+while you were away).
+
+Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+
+> There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+
+The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+moves).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From ngreco@softhome.net Tue Feb 20 15:21:50 2001
+Received: from turing.codelarvs.com.ar (ADSL253-235.advancedsl.com.ar [200.51.253.235])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1KELkR60088
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:21:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ngreco@softhome.net)
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+	by turing.codelarvs.com.ar (Postfix) with SMTP id EA3D68700
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:19:40 -0300 (ART)
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:19:04 -0300
+From: Nahuel Greco <ngreco@softhome.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-Id: <20010220111904.27586712.ngreco@softhome.net>
+In-Reply-To: <20010220143501.I26264@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com> <20010219154601.6d040b28.ngreco@softhome.net>
+	<20010220143501.I26264@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.4.61 (GTK+ 1.2.8; Linux 2.2.15; i586)
+Organization: Codelarvs
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+> but you'll have chiefly:
+> - access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+>   requests)
+> - PC manager services
+> - combat services
+
+I must switch to combat mode in the game?, i mean, when i combat, the scenary
+and the gameplay changes, like in the PSX rpg games?
+
+> - item services
+> - databaser service (only one)
+> - pathfinding services
+> - bots service (AI)
+> - magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+>   other services as exceptions to their rules)
+> 
+
+If the bots service want to pathfind to some location, they must ask to the
+pathfinding service?, and the pathfinding service must ask to the "state
+tracking" ?, suposse that i have a bot script, running in the bot service, 
+in some routine i must see if i can walk to some location, on the nort, on the
+ south, etc, to decide later where i will walk.. then.. each bot script 
+get_is_reachable() function will trigger a query to another service, and must 
+wait the response of that service  to continue the code execution.
+
+for thousands of scripts, that will be too slow, without thinking in the
+"wait, is your query is in the queque" issue.
+
+
+and btw, what scripting language do you plan to use for the code that will
+execute in thousand of instances..?
+
+
+
+> then some geographic-based services
+> 
+> - ecology managers
+
+That will instantiate, for example.. more gold to keep the economy ok ?
+
+
+> - state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+>   ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+>   all it does)
+> 
+> and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+> 
+> I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+> agent for some cases.
+> 
+> > How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+> > in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+> > enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+> > the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+> 
+> We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+> various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+> this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+> is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+> while you were away).
+> 
+> Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+> complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+> 
+> > There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+> 
+> The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+> agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+> the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+> migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+> by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+> moves).
+> 
+> -- 
+> Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+> 
+> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+From ngreco@softhome.net Tue Feb 20 15:24:11 2001
+Received: from turing.codelarvs.com.ar (ADSL253-235.advancedsl.com.ar [200.51.253.235])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1KEO8R60119
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:24:09 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:22:14 -0300 (ART)
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:21:38 -0300
+From: Nahuel Greco <ngreco@softhome.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-Id: <20010220112138.488472ee.ngreco@softhome.net>
+In-Reply-To: <20010220142032.H26264@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com> <006101c09abd$11da75c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220105654.A15852@IDEALX.com>
+	<20010220142032.H26264@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.4.61 (GTK+ 1.2.8; Linux 2.2.15; i586)
+Organization: Codelarvs
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> 
+> It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+> fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+> if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+> modes.
+> 
+
+Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+the zones are fixed or dynamic?
+
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Feb 20 15:32:55 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1KEWsR60190
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:32:54 +0100 (CET)
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+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28748
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:36:33 +0100
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:36:33 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Message-ID: <20010220153633.J26264@nevrax.com>
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Wow, lots of questions.
+
+Ok, I'll try to summarise the replies to your points, without too much
+dilution. Bear with me, this is quite long, but I'll try to be as
+unambiguous as possible.
+
+Jared Mark said:
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+> but no profit can be made on that...)
+
+Point one: As explained somewhere else, the GPL make software "free" as
+in "freedom", not "free" as in "free of charge". You can pretty well make
+as much money as you want from your own game. The only thing is, if
+someone who got the program requests it, you have to give them access to
+the source for no more than reproduction costs on a "standard support"
+(i.e. giving only printouts of the code doesn't count) and shipping charges.
+
+Usually, people preventively put it on a download site somewhere, so
+they don't have to handle code requests on an individual basis. But
+that's not mandated.
+
+There are also other strings attached, namely, if you use that source
+you got to build a program which you distribute, you also have to provide
+the modified *OR* original (if unmodified) source under the same license
+terms.
+
+So:
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+
+Eagle Eye said:
+> Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering "exactly
+> where does their code stop, and my code begin?"
+
+But what is code exactly? Code is the little thingy that makes a lens
+flare when looking toward the sun. Code is the special multipurpose
+network protocol that communicate reliably across the Internet (ahem).
+Code is the state automaton engine that handles your mobs.
+
+Code is not the 1000-line table of all items and their stats. Code is not
+the list of states and transitions a mob (btw, if anyone wonders about that
+term, it's an old MUD term for 'mobile object', i.e. all autonomous entities
+in the game that have a behaviour, as opposed as just having properties).
+Code is not the glossy metal and rivets texture on your door. Code is not
+the wondrous mocaped triple head kick to smash a skull. Code is not the
+cuckoo sound you hear while walking thru a forest in game.
+
+The GPL doesn't cover these parts at all.
+
+Bryce Harrington said:
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code
+
+Minor nitpick: It's Nevrax, not NeL. NeL is the library, not the
+company :)
+
+But that's the gist of it. We do offer the code under a GPL license,
+but we retain the traditional copyright on our intellectual property.
+
+So, we don't want your game design. We can't get your game design.
+It's all yours. But if you add code to run a game using sensor gloves as
+the user interface and 3D glasses, then we have a right to request the
+code for that. We can then reuse the "HOW" you use them to play, but not
+the "WHY" you use them. How is code. Why is your game design.
+
+Eagle Eye said:
+> Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+> myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+> the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+> handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+> about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+> my world.
+
+Hmm, we have a little legal problem there. It's basically straight copyright
+law.
+
+Basically, you cannot copyright an idea. It's got nothing to do with whether
+NeL is GPL or a $1,000,000 licensed game engine, so don't let NeL's license
+stop you.
+
+You cannot copyright an idea. To take an example, let's say you're using
+a system of skill trees that are enabled by pre-required skills, level
+and required characteristics combinations, so that the "Accurate Eye Shot"
+skill requires Marksmanship, a level of 17, and a minimum dexterity of 38.
+
+You cannot prevent anyone from using a system of skill trees that require...
+(you get the gist). However, you can forbid anyone from using a set of
+skills that basically is a copy of yours. They have to make their own set
+of skills, and make them different "enough". That's where it gets tricky.
+The "enough" part is usually settled by court when there's a dispute.
+Merely renaming "Accurate Eye Shot" by "Advanced Bowmanship" doesn't
+count (usually), but the frontier between "my skill trees" and "your
+skill trees" isn't a straight and obvious line.
+
+To take a known analogy, copyright law doesn't prevent you from doing a
+novel set in the south during the civil war, with romance, and all that.
+However, copyright law will prevent you from calling your main character
+"Scarlett O'Hara".
+
+Leighton Haynes said:
+> This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+> 'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+> but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+> which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+> and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+
+"You have entered Ankh Morpok north". :)
+
+(sorry for the obscure MUD reference. I do hope people will recognise it)
+
+To get back to the initial post
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I
+> want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or
+> any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I
+> consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have
+> ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give
+> all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+flag flying at the top of the keep.
+
+But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+
+> *scratches head* 
+
+/em massages Jared's shoulders.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Feb 20 15:51:42 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:55:20 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Message-ID: <20010220155520.K26264@nevrax.com>
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <000701c09adf$8a2048d0$0200a8c0@fast>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Well, you summarised my summaries...
+
+According to Sal:
+>     If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+> located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+
+There are probably a few minor code modifications, required to support
+very specific rules (if you want to run elections, the code for booths
+and all that is probably hard code). But, if we've done our design right,
+most of a MMORPG design should be a matter of fiddling data.
+
+>     I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+> that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+> they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+> be copywritten material.
+
+Not "could". Is. It's automatic and non-debatable. When you write it,
+it is automatically covered by copyright, and you have to explicitely
+put it in the public domain (which is not *that* easy). With the
+provision about plot; as I explained before, a plot cannot be
+copyrighted, while specifics are. You can't copyright "evil arch-villain
+wants to overthrow king", you can only copyright "Mezzo Kharkan wants
+to overthrow king Ariflax".
+
+(hmmm, if I have infringed some copyright here, it's purely unintentional,
+ and was only for purpose of citation. Honest)
+
+>     I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+
+In the GPL text, yes. Derivative works refer to code. GPL says exactly
+nothing about data, so it's not covered by the license.
+
+>     Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+> they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+> out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+> would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+> that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+
+That's a good example. However (assuming Everquest code was GPL), once
+you'd produced a set of player and NPC models, and made a few zone files
+under a 3D modeller, and created your own items, you'd be able
+to launch Realquest.
+
+And try to put them out of business :)
+
+>     Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+> _everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+> which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+> libraries used in conjunction with them.
+
+By FSF's own admission, the source of any library "not commonly available
+with the system". Otherwise, we'd have to provide the Nvidia OpenGL driver
+sources if we wanted to run our game on a Nvidia-equipped PC :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Feb 20 17:55:59 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
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+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:00:00 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building a FAQ?
+Message-ID: <20010220180000.J817@nevrax.com>
+References: <001501c09abe$bf4667e0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Jared Mark:
+> 1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled,
+> what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE
+> to edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle
+> all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the
+> core components?
+
+Well, what you now have is a very small client, so don't expect to run a
+RPG using that :)
+
+But essentially, yes. You now have to fire off your favorite 3D modeller
+and start making your own world (then, later get or write a converter to
+generate our map format), or, if you find the current world fine... start
+working on additional code to implement your features.
+
+> 2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of latteral area?)
+
+Basically? None. We haven't put any specific restriction. Bank accounts
+aren't implemented yet, so they don't overflow :)
+
+There are additional design decisions about the game I can't get into,
+but, regarding map size for example, we do not have any restriction.
+Apart from our capacity to produce them and the limitations on the
+support for distribution (if we have to install 10Gb on your HD, it's
+probably too much).
+
+As a comparison, the artic icefield distributed with Snowballs covers
+2.5km by 1.3, and we do expect to have a pair of PCs handle every services
+regarding such a game area and about 50-100 active players.
+
+(of course, that depends a LOT on how those services are sollicited, which
+ ties directly into game play)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From x5101920@fedro.ugr.es Tue Feb 20 18:42:12 2001
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
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+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:38:51 +0100
+From: x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [es] (Win95; I)
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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+
+
+Jared Mark escribió:
+
+> I just want to make sure I understand this right... I use this source
+> code to build the base of my game...I do all sorts of work to make my
+> own game built around this core engine...I then try to get people to
+> play the game...
+>
+> #Sound easy, it is hard.
+>  People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping
+> it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+>
+> #Fucking HTML messages!!!
+> #Ok, with GPL you can sell it and make money but you CAN'T forbid the
+> buyer to sell, copy, or hire it.
+>  I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+> money...
+>
+> #And why people would pay for your service!?
+> #It isn't a easy thing But then, because of the way this license
+> reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set
+> up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use
+> it just like I am doing... So if all of the above is correct... what
+> is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When
+> someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but
+> all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole),
+> and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the
+> loop entirely.
+>
+> #Well, the code is GPL, but the GFX, SFX, History, and so aren't GPL
+> so you can't copy them. ( isn't this true? )
+> #Someone don't steal but derive the work, if this happens you have two
+> options:
+> #a) Forgive your project and join then
+> #b) Use their modifications ( that are GPL ) to make yours better. If
+> I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+> "open source" thing...
+>
+> # Well, Open Source is like Fire for the Primitive mens. Someone scary
+> and others just get hot near it.
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Tue Feb 20 19:28:15 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash4.flashmail.com [207.173.216.244])
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+Message-ID: <003301c09b6a$3f8519a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220153633.J26264@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:23:37 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+> automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+> own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+> that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+> the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+> flag flying at the top of the keep.
+>
+> But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+> other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+> game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+
+This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+(because it's open source) and just "compile and run" my entire world.  I
+don't care about the technology stuff, like those special gloves, or 3D
+goggle implementation... I just want it so that if someone wants to copy
+that skill tree of mine, they have to copy it from the ground up.  Not just
+grab my source and say "Okay, it's mine now."  I'm not talking about
+copyrights...
+
+Look at it this way... I am copying some of the concepts from any number of
+other MUDs, MMOLRPGs, and such... the concept of player housing is in Ultima
+Online... I'm copying that, and making it better... What I'm not doing is
+taking their source code for how they implemented it, and using it for my
+own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+some of their own effort to make their "copy of my ideas" a reality.
+
+> > *scratches head*
+>
+> /em massages Jared's shoulders.
+
+Hehe, thanks. :)
+
+
+From novalis@novalis.org Tue Feb 20 19:41:13 2001
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+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:23:47 -0500
+From: Dave Turner <novalis@novalis.org>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17-ide i686)
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+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220153633.J26264@nevrax.com> <003301c09b6a$3f8519a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+EagleEye wrote:
+> 
+> > Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+> > automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+> > own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+> > that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+> > the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+> > flag flying at the top of the keep.
+> >
+> > But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+> > other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+> > game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+> 
+> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+> (because it's open source) and just "compile and run" my entire world.  I
+> don't care about the technology stuff, like those special gloves, or 3D
+> goggle implementation... I just want it so that if someone wants to copy
+> that skill tree of mine, they have to copy it from the ground up.  Not just
+> grab my source and say "Okay, it's mine now."  I'm not talking about
+> copyrights...
+> 
+> Look at it this way... I am copying some of the concepts from any number of
+> other MUDs, MMOLRPGs, and such... the concept of player housing is in Ultima
+> Online... I'm copying that, and making it better... What I'm not doing is
+> taking their source code for how they implemented it, and using it for my
+> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+> some of their own effort to make their "copy of my ideas" a reality.
+> 
+> > > *scratches head*
+> >
+> > /em massages Jared's shoulders.
+> 
+> Hehe, thanks. :)
+
+
+If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+there?  Remember that any improvements they make will go back to you
+(excluding the ASP loophole, but we're ignoring that).  Also, they will
+have to give you credit (you have the copyright on your parts).  So, why
+make them repeat the work?  Isn't that just a waste of their time? 
+Also, if they have to redo it, they won't have to release their stuff,
+so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+up, rather than really innovating.  
+
+I understand that you want your world to be unique - one way you can do
+this is by having a less free license on media.  This is what Nevrax is
+doing.  Another way is to not release your plots - after all, plot is
+what makes a game (or ought to).  Remember, nobody will play a game that
+is just like yours, but without your creativity.  
+
+You can make money on free software, even sticking with the GPL.  RMS
+did it for years, RedHat does it, Cygnus did it (now, RH owns them).  I
+suggest that you seriously consider the benefits of free software from a
+totally open mind - trying to think of it from a different point of view
+- not "How can I lock world up?", but "How can I make my players
+happier?"
+
+I think you'll find that even among proprietary games, the most open
+games had the best results - look at how customizable the Quake series
+is.
+
+Just my 2 cents.
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+"It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures" - Pug
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Tue Feb 20 22:18:50 2001
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:15:23 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:28:24 +0100
+Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:28:01 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-ID: <20010220202801.A20748@IDEALX.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com> <006101c09abd$11da75c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220105654.A15852@IDEALX.com> <20010220142032.H26264@nevrax.com> <20010220112138.488472ee.ngreco@softhome.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i
+In-Reply-To: <20010220112138.488472ee.ngreco@softhome.net>; from ngreco@softhome.net on Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+> [... case of zone server failure ...]
+> Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+> will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+
+The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+which is supposed to take over.
+
+I'm still trying to get up to date with NeL design, so I dunno yet how the
+data are/will be stored.
+
+
+	Best regards,
+
+		Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Feb 21 11:17:29 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1LAHQR66619
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:17:26 +0100 (CET)
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+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14579
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:21:23 +0100
+Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:21:23 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+Message-ID: <20010221112123.C12838@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102181506.KAA4285043@www08.hway.net> <20010219111549.I32574@nevrax.com> <3A91083B.7B4BC656@zerodeux.net> <000801c09a81$7a2afc30$9b00a8c0@glaze.se> <20010219173333.E4719@nevrax.com> <006101c09abd$11da75c0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220105654.A15852@IDEALX.com> <20010220142032.H26264@nevrax.com> <20010220112138.488472ee.ngreco@softhome.net> <20010220202801.A20748@IDEALX.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <20010220202801.A20748@IDEALX.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Thierry Mallard:
+> On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+> > [... case of zone server failure ...]
+> > Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+> > will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+> 
+> The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+> currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+> which is supposed to take over.
+
+That's what you get with a purely geographic design, like EQ/UO design.
+When a zone fails, you get kicked out, everything you gained since your last
+save is lost, and when you return, every single critter has respawned. All
+state is lost, since all state was located in a single process.
+
+With a functional approach, all game entities are "holographic"
+regarding to storage. They're a kind of "cloud" of various agents located
+on various services. If a geographic server dies, you get suddendly
+a kind of fog for a while. Another service starts up, gets back information
+about what critters are where from the AI services, where all players are
+from the various player services, and what items are grown where from the
+ecology services. It takes a little time, but you recover more
+gracefully.
+
+The same occurs if an AI server dies. Those critters that were managed
+by that service freezes, but then another service takes them over. They
+will probably forget a lot of what they were doing, but they don't "depop",
+since the geography service knows that there's that kind of beast
+that was located there.
+
+Of course there are services that are more critical than other. If a login
+service dies, all players using it are kicked out forcefully. If the
+item manager dies, your inventory locks up completely (but you still look
+like yourself, can move around, and talk).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw Wed Feb 21 11:41:14 2001
+Received: from gameone.com.tw ([210.243.185.125])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1LAenR66745
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:41:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw)
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+	with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.0.0.R)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:36:55 +0800
+Message-ID: <002401c09bf2$55f6c340$44f115d3@gameone.com>
+From: "jaleco" <jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:37:46 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Return-Path: jaleco@gameone.com.tw
+X-MDRcpt-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-MDRemoteIP: 211.21.241.68
+Subject: [Nel] maybe bug
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am wrong.
+
+file moves.cpp=20
+     auto_ptr<CConfigFile> cf2( new CConfigFile() );
+    auto_ptr<CConfigFile> cf( new CConfigFile() );
+seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content when leave local =
+stack.
+but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this will cause bad =
+thing .
+did it ?
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am =
+wrong.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>file moves.cpp </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; =
+cf2( new=20
+CConfigFile() );</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; cf( =
+new=20
+CConfigFile() );<BR>seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content =
+when=20
+leave local stack.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this =
+will=20
+cause bad thing .</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>did it ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0--
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Feb 21 18:22:14 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1LHMER68770
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:22:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23716
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:26:14 +0100
+Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:26:14 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+Message-ID: <20010221182614.E23037@nevrax.com>
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220153633.J26264@nevrax.com> <003301c09b6a$3f8519a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <3A92B633.E800F8F4@novalis.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <3A92B633.E800F8F4@novalis.org>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+EagleEye wrote:
+> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+> (because it's open source) and just "compile and run" my entire world.  I
+...
+> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+> some of their own effort to make their "copy of my ideas" a reality.
+
+One important thing to know is, until you have released something, you are
+under no obligation to put any source available. The GPL doesn't prevent
+you from doing anything privately. It just says, "once other people run it,
+you have to share the source". So do not worry about not being the first.
+
+There's also a fact that, even if you release your server code, without
+the data it holds, it's worthless. You speak of plot, of situations,
+of recipes for game dynamics. All this (reread my message) isn't code.
+It's data. You might have a few specific bits here and there of code,
+but it's chiefly scripts that say how mobs react, items, events and code
+tables, and all that.
+
+To take another analogy: You are now mandated to release your network
+MP3 player source. You are not mandated to release any of the MP3 you
+composed.
+
+That ties into another typical false belief about modern game design.
+Code isn't what makes your game. Data is. A typical game development
+team often features twice, or three times as many artists, level
+designers, and game designers as pure coders. All that data production
+isn't in the GPL. Apart from the level proper (i.e. art), none of it
+never ever needs to appear on any site. And that's what makes the game.
+
+According to Dave Turner:
+> If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+> their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+
+Hmm, that's not reassuring the guy who's just said he did NOT want
+somebody doing that :)
+
+> so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+> up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+> up, rather than really innovating.  
+
+That's the real clincher, of course. If all they are doing is taking
+your game, and running it under their name, then:
+
+1) They're going to be second on the market
+2) They're going to be late in coming, because they WILL have to spend a
+   lot of time redoing your internal game data
+
+If this is a commercial endeavour, the only way they can expect to
+attract customers is if they do it a lot cheaper than you do.
+
+That's where the real fun begins. People have to realise the difference
+in paradigm between making, say, a Starcraft, and making a Shadowbane.
+Running an on-line game isn't a software industry, it's a SERVICE
+industry. The main costs isn't creating the game, it's dwarfed by
+the cost of running it. A classic game costs $40 to buy. An on-line
+game typically costs $150 if you play it for a year. Do you think
+this means you've made $100 profits on the game? No. What this means
+is that you've invested $100 in the game, the distributor got paid $20,
+and got $30 profit, instead of investing $10, giving $20 in distribution
+cost and getting $10 profit.
+
+Those $100 invested are about $25 in game dev (heavier than classic games)
+and $75 in infrastructure (server, bandwidth, customer service).
+
+(that's simplistic, but it's relatively representative of what's behind
+ an online game)
+
+Your competitor will reduce its investment, but the infrastructure costs
+remain not only identical, but the MAIN factor in costs. Forcing your
+competitor to maintain its price close to yours.
+
+In other words, stealing your game to run a competiting business isn't
+a major problem. And if it becomes one, you have legal recourse against
+them. After all, they copied your copyrighted works (the game data).
+Why go to the investment of making a massive world, if you open yourself
+to lawsuit.
+
+And anyway, if you want to make an immense effort designing everything
+by yourself, your counterfactor will still gain a lot of time, because
+*he* will use NeL to catch up on code quickly :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From duponc@rpi.edu Wed Feb 21 21:43:49 2001
+Received: from mail.rpi.edu (root@mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1LKhlR69758
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:43:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from duponc@rpi.edu)
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+	by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA44614
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:41:14 -0500
+Message-ID: <3A94278B.4050700@rpi.edu>
+Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:39:39 -0500
+From: Charles Dupont <duponc@rpi.edu>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010109
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220153633.J26264@nevrax.com> <003301c09b6a$3f8519a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <3A92B633.E800F8F4@novalis.org> <20010221182614.E23037@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] System specs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+How much
+
+
+From duponc@rpi.edu Wed Feb 21 21:49:17 2001
+Received: from mail.rpi.edu (root@mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1LKnGR69803
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:49:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from duponc@rpi.edu)
+Received: from rpi.edu (magneton-55.dynamic.rpi.edu [128.113.193.224])
+	by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31986
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:46:43 -0500
+Message-ID: <3A9428D3.3070105@rpi.edu>
+Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:45:07 -0500
+From: Charles Dupont <duponc@rpi.edu>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; 0.7) Gecko/20010109
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] System specs
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220153633.J26264@nevrax.com> <003301c09b6a$3f8519a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <3A92B633.E800F8F4@novalis.org> <20010221182614.E23037@nevrax.com> <3A94278B.4050700@rpi.edu>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Charles Dupont wrote:
+
+> How much
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+> 
+Sorry hit the send button acidentaly.  On to the question.
+
+How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+when your service is up and running?
+
+
+
+
+From jdominiczak@home.com Thu Feb 22 01:19:27 2001
+Received: from femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.89])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1M0JQR70832
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:19:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jdominiczak@home.com)
+Received: from TOWER ([24.11.71.220]) by femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010222001649.UKPV13478.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@TOWER>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:16:49 -0800
+Message-ID: <000801c09c64$cd134a30$1000000a@TOWER>
+From: "Jason Dominiczak" <jdominiczak@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:17:10 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Link error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+While compiling the client workspace, I get an error at the end.  I'm a =
+Java programmer just looking into Nel and am very impressed.  If someone =
+could just shed some light on how to resolve this error:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>While compiling the client workspace, I =
+get an=20
+error at the end.&nbsp; I'm a Java programmer just looking into Nel and =
+am very=20
+impressed.&nbsp; If someone could just shed some light on how to resolve =
+this=20
+error:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib =
+"LIBCMT"=20
+conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library<BR>freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class<BR>Release/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0--
+
+
+From jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw Thu Feb 22 04:49:27 2001
+Received: from gameone.com.tw ([210.243.185.125])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1M3nFR72225
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 04:49:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw)
+Received: from designer [211.21.241.68] by gameone.com.tw [210.243.185.125]
+	with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.0.0.R)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:45:43 +0800
+Message-ID: <000c01c09c82$0ff0e160$44f115d3@gameone.com>
+From: "jaleco" <jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:36 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Return-Path: jaleco@gameone.com.tw
+X-MDRcpt-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-MDRemoteIP: 211.21.241.68
+Subject: [Nel] maybe bug
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I have do follow modify to time_service.cpp
+so it will not crash=20
+ /* CConfigFile cf;
+  cf.load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &v =3D cf.getVar ("UniTime");
+  modify by  jaleco
+  */
+       CConfigFile *cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;
+  cf->load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &v =3D cf->getVar ("UniTime");
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have do follow modify to =
+time_service.cpp</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>so it will not crash </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;/*&nbsp;CConfigFile cf;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;cf.load =
+
+(ConfigFileName);</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D =
+cf.getVar=20
+("UniTime");<BR>&nbsp; modify by=20
+&nbsp;jaleco<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;*/<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
+sp;CConfigFile=20
+*cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;cf-&gt;load=20
+(ConfigFileName);<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D =
+cf-&gt;getVar=20
+("UniTime");</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540--
+
+
+
+From jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw Thu Feb 22 10:37:41 2001
+Received: from gameone.com.tw ([210.243.185.125])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1M9bVR73896
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:37:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw)
+Received: from designer [211.21.241.68] by gameone.com.tw [210.243.185.125]
+	with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.0.0.R)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:33:30 +0800
+Message-ID: <000c01c09cb2$8ee5a3e0$44f115d3@gameone.com>
+From: "jaleco" <jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:33:47 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Return-Path: jaleco@gameone.com.tw
+X-MDRcpt-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-MDRemoteIP: 211.21.241.68
+Subject: [Nel] agent service
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+how to get python15_d.dll
+since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>how to get python15_d.dll</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>since I have download from <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.python.org">www.python.org</A> but it don't have =
+debug=20
+version.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>where to find it ?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0--
+
+
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Thu Feb 22 10:58:23 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1M9wKR74011
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:58:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA02015
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:02:17 +0100
+Message-ID: <01e801c09cb5$89d05780$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000c01c09cb2$8ee5a3e0$44f115d3@gameone.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] agent service
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:55:07 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Well it do'nt exist!
+I you are passion you can compile&link it else change the reference =
+library in the config.h.
+
+For that open the config.h in the include python directory and change =
+the:
+
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib")=20
+
+on
+
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16.lib")
+
+That all.
+
+I use the python 1.6 and in my config i have the #pragma =
+comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") at line 220.
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: jaleco=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:33 AM
+  Subject: [Nel] agent service
+
+
+  how to get python15_d.dll
+  since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+  where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well it do'nt exist!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I you are passion you can =
+compile&amp;link=20
+it&nbsp;else change the reference library in the config.h.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For that open the config.h in the =
+include python=20
+directory and </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>change =
+the:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#pragma =
+comment(lib,"python16.lib")</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That all.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I use the python 1.6 and in my config i =
+have the=20
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") at line 220.</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw=20
+  href=3D"mailto:jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw">jaleco</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 22, =
+2001 10:33=20
+  AM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] agent =
+service</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>how to get python15_d.dll</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>since I have download from <A=20
+  href=3D"http://www.python.org">www.python.org</A> but it don't have =
+debug=20
+  version.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>where to find it =
+?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460--
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Feb 22 11:00:40 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MA0cR74047
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02077
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:04:34 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f1MA0FT00784
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:15 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Link error
+Message-ID: <20010222110015.A733@nevrax.com>
+References: <000801c09c64$cd134a30$1000000a@TOWER>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <000801c09c64$cd134a30$1000000a@TOWER>; from jdominiczak@home.com on Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 07:17:10PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _psaux_module_class
+> Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+
+Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+
+Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+
+
+Sorry about that,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Feb 22 11:52:37 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MAqaR74295
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:52:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03110
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:56:34 +0100
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:56:34 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] System specs
+Message-ID: <20010222115634.O714@nevrax.com>
+References: <001401c09ad5$e65add40$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <20010220153633.J26264@nevrax.com> <003301c09b6a$3f8519a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <3A92B633.E800F8F4@novalis.org> <20010221182614.E23037@nevrax.com> <3A94278B.4050700@rpi.edu> <3A9428D3.3070105@rpi.edu>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <3A9428D3.3070105@rpi.edu>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Charles Dupont:
+> How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+> when your service is up and running?
+
+About an OC12 (655Mbits) per user.
+
+Ooops, sorry, was thinking about the pan-sensorial version with direct
+neural feed for complete immersion :)
+
+By design, we want to restrict the bandwidth to at most what a user with
+a 57.6K modem can 'swallow' realistically, which means a bandwidth
+of compressed data that tops at around 4Kbytes/s (or 32Kbits/s).
+
+Multiply by the number of simultaneous people a cluster has to serve,
+which we aim at around 3000-3500 players, and you get a little under
+an OC4 per cluster (about 110Mbits) for theoretical peak usage.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From cado@nevrax.com Thu Feb 22 16:41:27 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MFfQR75765
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:41:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08497
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:45:25 +0100
+Message-ID: <3A953318.C92857B9@nevrax.com>
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:41:12 +0100
+From: Olivier Cado <cado@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I)
+X-Accept-Language: fr,en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Priority: 2 (High)
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+We are very pleased that you are interested by NeL and our project.
+Thanks to free software, we are now working in cooperation with the
+community. So let's discuss some network issues.
+
+Here is the purpose of this message:
+- Present the future of the NeL Network Engine
+- Ask for your input on a couple of points
+
+At present, the Nel Network Engine is single-threaded. We plan to
+rewrite the engine using multi-threading. The library will be made up of
+five layers:
+- Layer 0: socket wrapper (roughly, present CBaseSocket + listening
+socket functionalities)
+- Layer 1: multiple socket multi-threaded I/O mechanism
+- Layer 2: adapted to CMemStream (allows serialization)
+- Layer 3: adapted to CMessage (contains type information)
+- Layer 4: using callbacks (as presently used in the services and
+provided by CMsgSocket)
+
+The main features of Layer 1 are as follows:
+
+External view:
+The user programmer will be able to send data (A), to check if some data
+has been received (B), and if so to get a data block from the receive
+queue.
+
+Implementation:
+(A) When the user requests to send data, his data block is put into a
+send queue. The actual sending is triggered off by a time flush trigger,
+a size flush trigger or an explicit flush trigger (at the user's
+demand). Let's say the queue control is executed in the main thread, in
+an update() method, called evenly.
+(B) Each connection is handled by a separate thread that sleeps while
+not receiving data so that no CPU time will be used if nothing is
+received on a particular socket. When incoming data is actually
+received, it is put into a global receive queue (synchronized with a
+mutex of course) and popped when the user requests to receive a block.
+
+This implementation still raises a few questions:
+(A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+(B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+
+I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+an idea about this issues.
+
+Thanks.
+Olivier Cado
+--
+http://www.nevrax.org
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Thu Feb 22 17:02:21 2001
+Received: from smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr (smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr [212.180.1.69])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MG2LR75883
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:02:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
+Received: from smtp1.mail.easynet.fr (slb-1-sippriv.mail.easynet.fr [10.0.1.57])
+	by smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E658EBA18
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:59:49 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from cblt.org (nemo-gw.nemo.com [212.180.94.137])
+	by smtp1.mail.easynet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C97C1B6B1
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:59:45 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org>
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:01:57 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A953318.C92857B9@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+question it will be cool :))
+
+> (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+> a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+> the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+> know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+> optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+> 
+> I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+> an idea about this issues.
+> 
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+From ludovic.lievre@chaman.net Thu Feb 22 17:16:38 2001
+Received: from CarlCox.iway.fr (carlcox.iway.fr [194.98.0.128])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MGGcR75964
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:16:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ludovic.lievre@chaman.net)
+Received: from cosmos ([212.208.43.187])
+	by CarlCox.iway.fr (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA1287874
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:13:51 +0100 (MET)
+From: "Ludovic LIEVRE" <ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:14:50 +0100
+Message-ID: <GBEOLCKNLNEKKAADMIBICEJMCEAA.ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="US-ASCII"
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all,
+
+We also build a MM game.
+
+Our servers now run on NT and Linux and will soon be ported to Solaris.
+
+I've read that with LinuxThreads, after 100 threads the performances of the
+system downgrade.
+
+Another question about network engine: will your messages all be TCP or UDP
+? If UDP is used will you add a mechanism that make UDP reliable ?
+In the first stages of our game, TCP was used. We made some test and we saw
+a terrific ping (due to ACK mechanism) time even on our LAN (200ms). So we
+decide to use UDP instead...
+
+
+> -----Message d'origine-----
+> De : nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]De la part de
+> Nicolas Hognon
+> Envoye : jeudi 22 fevrier 2001 17:02
+> A : nel@nevrax.org
+> Objet : Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+>
+>
+>
+> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+>
+> i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+> question it will be cool :))
+>
+> > (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+> > a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+> > the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+> > know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+> > optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+
+
+From jdominiczak@home.com Thu Feb 22 17:31:54 2001
+Received: from femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.84])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MGVsR76078
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:31:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jdominiczak@home.com)
+Received: from TOWER ([24.11.71.220]) by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010222162656.LXKG29648.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@TOWER>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:26:56 -0800
+Message-ID: <001201c09cec$a774d2c0$1000000a@TOWER>
+From: "Jason Dominiczak" <jdominiczak@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000801c09c64$cd134a30$1000000a@TOWER> <20010222110015.A733@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Link error
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:29:39 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+I get some more error messages:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decrypt
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Parse_Charstrings
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Done
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Init
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Close_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Start_Point
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Point1
+etc.......
+
+I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+Jay
+
+> > LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_psaux_module_class
+> > Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+>
+> Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+>
+> Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+> should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+>
+>
+> Sorry about that,
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Feb 22 17:57:07 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MGv6R76212
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:57:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA10093
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:54:22 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:53:43 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <156100587318.20010222175343@teleaction.de>
+CC: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+In-reply-To: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org>
+References: <3A953318.C92857B9@nevrax.com> <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Although  this  site  http://www.linuxraid.org/ isn't directly related
+to  NEL, it has a great number of tips and tricks on how to make Linux a little bit
+stable  and  how to expand Linux system resources (see the bottom of their page).
+
+Thursday, February 22, 2001, 5:01:57 PM, you wrote:
+
+
+NH> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+NH> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+NH> i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+NH> question it will be cool :))
+
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Feb 22 18:46:46 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MHkkR76497
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:46:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10684
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f1MHkO002782
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:46:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:46:24 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Link error
+Message-ID: <20010222184624.A2582@nevrax.com>
+References: <000801c09c64$cd134a30$1000000a@TOWER> <20010222110015.A733@nevrax.com> <001201c09cec$a774d2c0$1000000a@TOWER>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <001201c09cec$a774d2c0$1000000a@TOWER>; from jdominiczak@home.com on Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 11:29:39AM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+> I get some more error messages:
+>
+> [...]
+> 
+> I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+
+This is caused because some FreeType modules that we are using are not
+inlcuded in your FreeType compilation.
+
+We, Nevrax, are using GNU make to compil Freetype, and that compilation
+method include everything by default.
+
+As you are using an IDE to compil it you have to put the base components
+and, eventualy, some optional components.
+
+In your specific case the psaux module need the t1types and psnames modules.
+
+As NeL is a "work in progress" and that we migth add new features to
+font_generator, my advice is to compile *all* the optionals modules,
+all the C files listed at the end of the INSTALL file, in your FreeType
+compilation and installation process ... :-)
+
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+From jdominiczak@home.com Thu Feb 22 19:18:06 2001
+Received: from femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.86])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MII5R76688
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:18:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jdominiczak@home.com)
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:15:33 -0800
+Message-ID: <001301c09cfb$80349d30$1000000a@TOWER>
+From: "Jason Dominiczak" <jdominiczak@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000801c09c64$cd134a30$1000000a@TOWER> <20010222110015.A733@nevrax.com> <001201c09cec$a774d2c0$1000000a@TOWER> <20010222184624.A2582@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Link error
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:15:56 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+
+-Jay
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Feb 22 19:38:04 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MIc4R76795
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:38:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11630
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:42:02 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f1MIbgR03026
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:37:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:37:42 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Link error
+Message-ID: <20010222193742.A3013@nevrax.com>
+References: <000801c09c64$cd134a30$1000000a@TOWER> <20010222110015.A733@nevrax.com> <001201c09cec$a774d2c0$1000000a@TOWER> <20010222184624.A2582@nevrax.com> <001301c09cfb$80349d30$1000000a@TOWER>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <001301c09cfb$80349d30$1000000a@TOWER>; from jdominiczak@home.com on Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 01:15:56PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+
+That's nothing :-)
+
+
+From jdominiczak@home.com Thu Feb 22 20:21:30 2001
+Received: from femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.140])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MJLTR77015
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:21:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jdominiczak@home.com)
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+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010222191852.BSKD4561.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@TOWER>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:18:52 -0800
+Message-ID: <002001c09d04$58e449c0$1000000a@TOWER>
+From: "Jason Dominiczak" <jdominiczak@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:19:15 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Memory error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it and got this error one I entered =
+the world
+"The instruction at "0x77fca615"referenced memory at "0x7c80fff7". The =
+memory could not be "read"
+
+I'm running windows 2000 and I get that message in both fullscreen and =
+in windowed modes.
+
+Not sure if this is a bug or what.
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it =
+and got=20
+this error one&nbsp;I entered the world</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"The instruction at =
+"0x77fca615"referenced memory=20
+at "0x7c80fff7". The memory could not be "read"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm running windows 2000 and I get that =
+message in=20
+both fullscreen and in windowed modes.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not sure if this is a bug or =
+what.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110--
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Thu Feb 22 22:47:21 2001
+Received: from camus.cybercable.fr (camus.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.200])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1MLlKR77690
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:47:20 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
+Received: (qmail 13636470 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 21:36:47 -0000
+Received: from r184m194.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO cblt.org) ([195.132.184.194]) (envelope-sender <cblt@cblt.org>)
+          by camus.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 22 Feb 2001 21:36:47 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A958839.8090001@cblt.org>
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:44:25 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Memory error
+References: <002001c09d04$58e449c0$1000000a@TOWER>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> "The instruction at "0x77fca615"referenced memory at "0x7c80fff7". The 
+> memory could not be "read"
+
+i'm not sure the guys from nevrax can do someting with this kind
+of informations :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Thu Feb 22 23:06:13 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1MM6CR77796
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+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur ([207.44.176.190])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1MM3vl16925
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:03:57 -0800
+Message-ID: <007d01c09d1b$4c8275f0$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002001c09d04$58e449c0$1000000a@TOWER> <3A958839.8090001@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Memory error
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:03:33 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+In my experience with the engine these errors occur when a content file
+(mostly shape files) is missing.
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Thu Feb 22 23:07:34 2001
+Received: from lafontaine.cybercable.fr (lafontaine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.202])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1MM7XR77820
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:07:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
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+          by lafontaine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 22 Feb 2001 22:05:02 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A958ED7.60904@cblt.org>
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:12:39 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A953318.C92857B9@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> (A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+> the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+> come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+
+i'm not sure that i understand this part of your mail and i hope you'll
+understand my answer because i'm not sure my english enough fluent :))
+
+you're asking want happened if you call send or write on a socket
+and there is not enough space in the tcp stack / transport layer buffer.
+it depends you've got blocking or non blocking socket.
+if it's a blocking socket you're thread will be blocked
+until you're data can be send by the tcp stack.
+if you're socket is in non blocking mode send/write
+will return you an error an errno will be EWOULDBLOCK
+or WSAEWOULDBLOCK under winsock.
+
+but i'm not sure it's the answer to your question
+because it is not a very huge problem.
+i make the same mistake because when you make
+some little test it's more common that receive failed
+with a wouldblock than send. when i began
+writting our network api (for the company i work)
+i made this mistake. but when i made
+some test with huge network messages and a poor modem
+i encounter tihs problem.
+
+i hope this help you
+but can you answer me that i know if i understand
+your problem :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From jdominiczak@home.com Fri Feb 23 04:27:29 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1N3RSR79844
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 04:27:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jdominiczak@home.com)
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+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010223032455.VQK19148.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@TOWER>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:24:55 -0800
+Message-ID: <001401c09d48$3886d320$1000000a@TOWER>
+From: "Jason Dominiczak" <jdominiczak@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002001c09d04$58e449c0$1000000a@TOWER>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Memory error
+Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:25:06 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only =
+happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot =
+and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try =
+to look around, it gives me that error.
+
+I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've been trying to figure out were =
+this is coming=20
+from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can =
+stay in=20
+one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the =
+second i=20
+try to look around, it gives me that error.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope this sheds some more light on =
+the reason for=20
+this,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0--
+
+
+From bebarker@meginc.com Sat Feb 24 05:19:34 2001
+Received: from sioux.meginc.com (Sioux.meginc.com [207.246.76.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1O4JXR89368
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 05:19:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:brandon@[207.246.76.122])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:17:37 -0500 (EST)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+From: Brandon Barker <bebarker@meginc.com>
+Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:20:42 -0500
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99]
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <01022323204202.04034@localhost.localdomain>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] 2 questions
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello I have 2 questions.
+
+1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+Mesa.  What should I do.
+
+2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+anyone can get it ... for free.  
+
+Thanks,
+Brandon Barker
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Sat Feb 24 18:31:51 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:31:49 +0100 (CET)
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+	by ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (8.11.0.Beta1/8.11.0.Beta1/Debian 8.11.0-1) with ESMTP id f1OHTD610403
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:29:13 +0800
+Received: (from dayta@localhost)
+	by morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1OHTCW448858
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:29:12 +0800 (WST)
+Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:29:01 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010225012901.C351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+Subject: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Guys,
+    Well, i finally managed to get the sample snowballs client and
+    server up and running, though it required quite a few code hacks
+    on my part. (Damn my wacky machine config). Oh yeah, this is all
+    for the linux code as well.. my machine is basically debian woody
+    (though various gnome/wine/sawfish things are latest releases
+    compiled from source)
+
+    Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+    than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+    with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+    be causing them, please do. 
+    In case anyone else has similar problems, things I got were:
+        time_service was exiting: temporarily fixed by removing the
+          call of _Callback() in checkConfigFiles() method of 
+          code/nel/src/misc/config_file/config_file.cpp. I haven't
+          managed to work out where it's being set, or why the value
+          isn't correct yet.
+          I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+          client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+          of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+          doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+        moves_service - suspect it had the same problem as above, it
+          _was_ segfaulting, but went away after the above hack.
+        the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+          being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+          it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+          code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+          texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+          the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+          out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+          late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+          and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+
+    As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+    some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+    the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+    background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+    since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+    shoving an '&' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+    (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+    etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+    Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+
+    Oh well, after all that, the client runs at about 5fps ;) Guess
+    I should spend some time seeing if I can get it faster eh?
+    Can anyone give me some benchmarkish figures for framerate 
+    under window~1? For a P3-550 with Geforce(1) would be best ;)
+    Then I can have a base to work from.
+
+    Anyhow, nice work guys. The framework (which I've forcibly had
+    to poke) seems pretty decent (I'm reserving judgement for further
+    praise until I've had more experience with it ;)). Having spent
+    some time working on one of these, I know just how much work it
+    is to get anything this complex working. 
+
+    
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Feb 26 15:54:01 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QEs1R06478
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:53:18 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:53:18 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 2 questions
+Message-ID: <20010226155318.A18007@nevrax.com>
+References: <01022323204202.04034@localhost.localdomain>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <01022323204202.04034@localhost.localdomain>; from bebarker@meginc.com on Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 11:20:42PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Brandon,
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+> 
+> 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+> with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+> Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+> Mesa.  What should I do.
+
+That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+this file ?
+
+If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+
+   http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+
+> 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+> compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+> anyone can get it ... for free.  
+
+We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Mon Feb 26 16:15:08 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QFF6R06616
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:15:07 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:12:28 +0800 (WST)
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:12:28 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 2 questions and something else
+Message-ID: <20010226231228.G351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+References: <01022323204202.04034@localhost.localdomain> <20010226155318.A18007@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+In-Reply-To: <20010226155318.A18007@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 03:53:18PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 03:53:18PM +0100, Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> 
+> Hello Brandon,
+> 
+> Brandon Barker wrote:
+> > 
+> > 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+> > with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+> > Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+> > Mesa.  What should I do.
+> 
+> That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+> this file ?
+> 
+> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+> 
+>    http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+
+> > 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+> > compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+> > anyone can get it ... for free.  
+> 
+> We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+> during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+> us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+
+*shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+Cygwin can be..... painful.
+
+On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+_almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+(Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+out patches?)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Feb 26 16:15:49 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QFFmR06621
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:15:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:15:05 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Memory error
+Message-ID: <20010226161505.A18513@nevrax.com>
+References: <002001c09d04$58e449c0$1000000a@TOWER> <001401c09d48$3886d320$1000000a@TOWER>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+In-Reply-To: <001401c09d48$3886d320$1000000a@TOWER>; from jdominiczak@home.com on Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 10:25:06PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Jason,
+
+Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try to look around, it gives me that error.
+> 
+> I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+
+I'm sorry but no so much :-(
+
+Could you give us more informations about your config and eventually try
+to compil it on a debug mode and send us the output lines that you will
+get on the console ...
+
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From destine@scholar.org Mon Feb 26 16:49:18 2001
+Received: from postal.seqtek.com ([63.162.184.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QFnHR06824
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:49:17 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:46:37 -0600 (CST)
+From: "Bret Guillet" <destine@scholar.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:42:42 -0600
+Message-ID: <000f01c0a00a$c22cb1c0$51b8a23f@seqtek.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+Hash: SHA1
+
+I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+and
+get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+others who have similar capabilities.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
+
+iQA/AwUBOpp5ciQJr2c1l90oEQJtTwCfZPelcwnmgEGChRw9Lt+pl1gMQD4AoNDj
+lbd6OC/J1zIG26gezJHZzawa
+=HSCR
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Mon Feb 26 17:38:11 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QGcBR07177
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:38:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA27952
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:35:20 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:32:42 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <43444977888.20010226173242@teleaction.de>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Some screen shots
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+
+  
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org Mon Feb 26 17:52:47 2001
+Received: from bubastis (r178m38.cybercable.tm.fr [195.132.178.38])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QGqlR07329
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:52:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1006)
+	id 6DFE54EC2C; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:49:39 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:49:39 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Message-ID: <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i
+In-Reply-To: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org>; from cblt@cblt.org on Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 05:01:57PM +0100
+From: nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org (Bernard Hugueney)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+* Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org> [010222 19:33]:
+>
+> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+>
+
+Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+On a pessimistic note, I remember seeing in kernel traffic that Solaris
+was more effective in handling huge number of threads :-(
+Not only that, but Linus T. seemed not to recognize a defect is Linux,
+but claimed that it was a matter of trade-off and that Solaris was
+optimized for huge number of threads, and Linux more effective with
+small number of threads.
+
+But my memory is weak so I may be wrong...
+
+On a completly unrelated note, I remember seeing a NeL coder seeking assistance
+on a gcc mailing list for a trouble with exception causing an abort when
+linking with C code (I think). I do not remember if there was a useful response
+, but I saw a related message on boost mailing list:
+<citation>
+Hi,
+I finally figured out why the regex++ shared library was crashing when
+throwing an exception.  Somehow the shared library wasn't getting
+created correctly by using ld to link it.  When using ld with c++ code,
+some additional libraries need to be specified on the command line.  The
+easy fix is to simply call g++ to link the files.  g++ then calls ld
+with the appropriate commands.
+</citation>
+
+Maybe this can help...
+
+Cheers,
+Bernard
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 26 17:54:45 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QGshR07376
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:54:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13118
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:58:34 +0100
+Message-ID: <001b01c0a014$c8974200$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <43444977888.20010226173242@teleaction.de>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some screen shots
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:54:29 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Yes, screenshot already took. we just wait a validation from the co-fonder
+to put them on the site.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Dim Segebart" <zager@teleaction.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:32 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Some screen shots
+
+
+> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org
+will be a
+> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+>
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 26 18:14:56 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QHEtR07547
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:14:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13565
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:18:47 +0100
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:18:47 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 2 questions and something else
+Message-ID: <20010226181847.M7681@nevrax.com>
+References: <01022323204202.04034@localhost.localdomain> <20010226155318.A18007@nevrax.com> <20010226231228.G351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Leighton Haynes:
+> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+
+If you know how autoconfig works, it's usually almost trivial.
+
+> (Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+> out patches?)
+
+Basically, for smallish patches (two-three liners), you may submit them
+here if you want.
+
+However, since not everyone is interested in seeing patches, at least
+until they are commited on the CVS, you may also submit them directly
+to code@nevrax.org, which, I think, is mentioned somewhere on the web
+site. That applies to larger patches as well; I don't think people
+appreciate seeing a 1000-line diff file landing in the mailing list :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 26 18:19:05 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QHJ5R07598
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:19:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13685
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:22:56 +0100
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:22:56 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Message-ID: <20010226182256.N7681@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010225012901.C351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <000f01c0a00a$c22cb1c0$51b8a23f@seqtek.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Bret Guillet:
+> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> and
+> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> others who have similar capabilities.
+
+It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Feb 26 18:21:02 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QHL2R07631
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:21:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13723
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:24:54 +0100
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:24:54 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some screen shots
+Message-ID: <20010226182454.O7681@nevrax.com>
+References: <43444977888.20010226173242@teleaction.de>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <43444977888.20010226173242@teleaction.de>
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Dim Segebart:
+> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+
+We had a little internal vote about which of the many screenshots
+we took would look the best. Final validation pending now, but since
+we don't have any unspeakable acts perpetrated by the gnus on the
+hapless penguins, I don't think it will take long.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Feb 26 19:03:28 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QI3SR07887
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:03:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:02:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:02:44 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 2 questions and something else
+Message-ID: <20010226190244.A19674@nevrax.com>
+References: <01022323204202.04034@localhost.localdomain> <20010226155318.A18007@nevrax.com> <20010226231228.G351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010226231228.G351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>; from dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au on Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 11:12:28PM +0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> 
+> ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+> than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+> will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+> should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+
+Fixed, sorry about that ...
+
+It will be on the public CVS tonigth.
+
+
+> *shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+> Cygwin can be..... painful.
+
+I never tried yet, migth be interesting :-)
+
+
+> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+
+You can check the GNU website's documentation :
+
+   http://www.gnu.org/manual/autoconf-2.13/autoconf.html
+   http://www.gnu.org/manual/automake-1.4/automake.html
+
+And there is an online book, on RedHat's website, about Automake, Autoconf,
+and Libtool which is a quite good introduction to all this "stuff" :
+
+   http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html
+
+Contact me if i can help ...
+
+Have fun ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Feb 26 19:54:30 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QIsUR08174
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:54:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D79145D
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:55:15 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A9AA57B.9353F87@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:50:35 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.1 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> 
+> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+Threads are indeed system tasks internaly, and they are scheduled as such.
+The number of tasks and/or threads is only limited by NR_TASKS at compile
+time in Linux. And yes, the scheduler is not really effective at managing
+more than 1000~2000 tasks, and doesn't provide enough semantics to
+optimize thread use. This is rather a matter of design, and you could
+without great trouble design a Linux scheduler that handles a bunch of
+threads the way you expect it, but as far as I known, only the real time
+versions of Linux (such as RTlinux) have played with this part of the
+Linux code. Now about SMP, Linux does spreads threads over the available
+CPUs to optimize parallelism, but there's no limitation. And you'll only
+get a speed up on SMP machines if you really have parallel threads (ie.
+not a thread join every 10 lines !).
+
+I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing', sounds
+cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads everywhere : BeOS
+is a good example since everything than can receive events is in a thread.
+You can do it all by yourself : use one process and dispatch the incoming
+events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you would use one more than the other
+is a matter of design, and also depends on the type of application and the
+OS you use. The anwser is really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail,
+but I must admit I don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Mon Feb 26 20:22:50 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QJMnR08398
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+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02949
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:20:00 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:11 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <9454848754.20010226201711@teleaction.de>
+To: Nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+In-reply-To: <3A9AA57B.9353F87@zerodeux.net>
+References: <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org>
+ <3A9AA57B.9353F87@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+Look at it by the URL http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html
+Project home page is http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From nevrax@holsman.net Mon Feb 26 21:57:37 2001
+Received: from central.cnet.com (central.cnet.com [204.162.81.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QKvaR08837
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:55 -0800 (PST)
+Message-ID: <3A9AC277.6040002@holsman.net>
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:15 -0800
+From: Ian Holsman <nevrax@holsman.net>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.9) Gecko/20010226
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On 26 Feb 2001, you wrote in games.nevrax:
+
+ >Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+ >
+ >I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing',
+ >sounds cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads
+ >everywhere : BeOS is a good example since everything than can receive
+ >events is in a thread. You can do it all by yourself : use one process
+ >and dispatch the incoming events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you
+ >would use one more than the other is a matter of design, and also
+ >depends on the type of application and the OS you use. The anwser is
+ >really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail, but I must admit I
+ >don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+for discussions on different threading models you really should be 
+looking at, and drill down to the documents/technical papers.
+you probably don't want to maintain a thread per connected user, but
+have some kind of 'state' information which can be refered to by the 
+incoming request.
+
+
+http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html
+
+..Ian
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Mon Feb 26 22:01:51 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1QL1oR08879
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:01:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:00:03 -0800
+Message-ID: <005b01c0a036$f835fde0$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000f01c0a00a$c22cb1c0$51b8a23f@seqtek.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:59:11 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> and
+> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> others who have similar capabilities.
+I'm running an athlon 700 with a geforce2 gts and get 15-30 fps (depending
+on scene complexity) with cvs from a couple days ago (and some modifications
+we're making which should only make it slower)  The speed hardly even goes
+down when I crank the resolution up to 1280x1024 which indicates to me that
+we are currently cpu limited.  You might also try commenting nlinfo() lines
+out if u really want a few more fps, but just judging by the speed
+improvements since snowballs .1 I'm not worried about future performance:)
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Mon Feb 26 23:06:30 2001
+Received: from racine.cybercable.fr (racine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.201])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1QM6UR09263
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:06:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
+Received: (qmail 10726719 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 22:03:55 -0000
+Received: from r184m194.cybercable.tm.fr (HELO cblt.org) ([195.132.184.194]) (envelope-sender <cblt@cblt.org>)
+          by racine.cybercable.fr (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 26 Feb 2001 22:03:55 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A9AD4A4.8020004@cblt.org>
+Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:11:48 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+here is an article about massive multiplayer game on gamasutra
+i don't read it yeat.
+
+http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010226/fitch_01.htm
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Tue Feb 27 03:20:43 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1R2KfR11310
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 03:20:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:18:00 +0800 (WST)
+Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:18:00 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Message-ID: <20010227101800.I351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+References: <20010225012901.C351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <000f01c0a00a$c22cb1c0$51b8a23f@seqtek.com> <20010226182256.N7681@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+In-Reply-To: <20010226182256.N7681@nevrax.com>; from archer@nevrax.com on Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 06:22:56PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 06:22:56PM +0100, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> According to Bret Guillet:
+> > I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> > and
+> > get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> > others who have similar capabilities.
+> 
+> It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+> of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+> anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+How does one change these settings?
+
+Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+implemented yet.
+
+One thing that would be nice for those of us not in Nevrax would
+be a roadmap showing featureset planned and whos working on them 
+(and when). This would allow people out here to grab a feature they
+felt like implementing, and have a go at it, without running into 
+situations where someone else has already done it.
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Feb 27 10:08:37 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1R98bR13138
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:08:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:12:27 +0100
+Message-ID: <003701c0a09c$d6ee55e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010225012901.C351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <000f01c0a00a$c22cb1c0$51b8a23f@seqtek.com> <20010226182256.N7681@nevrax.com> <20010227101800.I351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:08:24 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I already sent a mail in this list about how to increase the fps in
+snowball.
+(vincent archer, you should put this in the FAQ ;-)
+
+---------------------
+
+Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Feb 27 17:56:17 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1RGuGR15516
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:00:05 +0100
+Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:00:05 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Message-ID: <20010227180005.D22373@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010225012901.C351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Leighton Haynes:
+>     Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+>     than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+>     with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+>     be causing them, please do. 
+
+Well, we don't have hints, because, as you may surmise, these do not
+occur here.
+
+>           I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+>           client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+>           of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+>           doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+
+That's exactly what it's supposed to be, yes. So, either the callbacks
+are set incorrectly, or they are called while they should not be.
+
+>         the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+>           being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+>           it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+>           code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+>           texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+>           the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+>           out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+>           late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+>           and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+
+That's the strange part. It should not be loading an empty file name
+at all. I suppose the check doesn't hurt either, so we'll look at
+integrating it in future commits.
+
+>     As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+>     some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+>     the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+>     background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+
+Well, there is one. Basically, if you look at these processes, you'll
+see they first do a set of initialisations, then fork. The whole
+fork-and-exit sequence is used to guarantee that service N+1 isn't
+started before service N has at least performed the minimum required
+initialisations.
+
+>     since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+>     shoving an '&' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+
+You could too, but you'd have to slide in a "reasonable" sleep N in
+the shell startup script. With reasonable varying a lot.
+
+>     (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+>     etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+>     Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+
+That'll be added, yes.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From bebarker@meginc.com Tue Feb 27 22:43:30 2001
+Received: from sioux.meginc.com (Sioux.meginc.com [207.246.76.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1RLhSR16823
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+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+From: Brandon Barker <bebarker@meginc.com>
+Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:44:30 -0500
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99]
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <200102271101.f1RB1OR13797@www.nevrax.org>
+In-Reply-To: <200102271101.f1RB1OR13797@www.nevrax.org>
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> > 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine
+> > with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with
+> > ATI Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and
+> > suggest I get Mesa.  What should I do.
+>
+> That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+> this file ?
+>
+> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+>
+>    http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+
+Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Wed Feb 28 09:35:12 2001
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
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+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:31:06 +0100
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Message-ID: <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com>
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i
+In-Reply-To: <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org>; from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org on Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> [ Linux and threads ]
+> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+/proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+
+But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default kernel
+can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+look deeper into this...
+
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 09:36:45 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1S8aiR20276
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:36:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc6 (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09795
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:40:33 +0100
+Message-ID: <001701c0a161$4b854a20$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010225012901.C351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <000f01c0a00a$c22cb1c0$51b8a23f@seqtek.com> <20010226182256.N7681@nevrax.com> <20010227101800.I351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:34:41 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 3:18 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+
+
+>
+> Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+> implemented yet.
+>
+
+We use a ROAM-like algorithm. See class CLandscape for more details. It is
+based on bezier patchs, not on heightmap, so it is slighty different from
+ROAM (as example, you can't deduce tesselation neighborhood from topology (a
+patch graph is not as simple as a heightmap :) )). There is lot of features
+(from Tiles, to distance based geomoprh) which make it different from the
+original ROAM document.
+
+Actually, I tink the only thing copied from ROAM is the triangle split/merge
+scheme.
+
+
+Lionel.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 10:07:31 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1S97VR20584
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:07:31 +0100 (CET)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10311
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:11:19 +0100
+Message-ID: <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:07:19 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+In fact, we don't want to know the theorical limit. we know that we can
+change this value in the kernel sources and recompile it.
+
+What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+case, we have to forget the solution where each
+socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Thierry Mallard" <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:31 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> > [ Linux and threads ]
+> > Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> > what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+> > threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> > the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+>
+> In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+> /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+>
+> But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default
+kernel
+> can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+> look deeper into this...
+>
+>
+> Shaman
+>
+> --
+> Thierry Mallard              |
+> GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+> key 0xA3D021CB               |
+> http://thierry.mallard.com   |
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 10:49:10 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1S9n5R20822
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:49:06 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:52:50 +0100
+Message-ID: <008901c0a16b$a74148a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org><3A9AA57B.9353F87@zerodeux.net> <9454848754.20010226201711@teleaction.de>
+Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:48:50 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+Yes, we didn't send a message to say what do we think about this library
+(sate thread).
+We currently look in deep the documentation and it seems a very interesting.
+We just have to be sure that this lib fulfils our requirements.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Dim Segebart" <zager@teleaction.com>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:17 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+> this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+> At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+> tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+> Look at it by the URL
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html
+> Project home page is http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Feb 28 10:57:42 2001
+Received: from smarthost1.mail.easynet.fr (smarthost1.mail.easynet.fr [212.180.1.68])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1S9vgR20880
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:57:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:55:00 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:54:59 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A9CCB77.4080101@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:57:11 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+
+> In this case, we have to forget the solution where each
+> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+> and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+I encouter the same problem : one thread must manage more than one 
+socket on the server. the problem is how managing those socket
+in the thread. the problem is I want to be portable between windows
+and linux :((
+
+under windows there is many solution :
+  - select (the only one which is portable)
+  - windows event and message
+  - overlapped I/O
+
+under linux the only solution I know is :
+  - select / poll :  i'm not sure but i think the difference between
+    select and poll is that with poll you don't have to fill your array
+    before each call.
+
+another problem when a thread maange more than one socket is
+what your threads will do :
+
+a first approch is something like that :
+
+while(run)
+{
+   TestSokets();
+
+   for each socket which received something
+   do
+     read the incoming data
+     process the data
+     send data
+   done
+}
+
+but during one step of this loop your socket list must be locked
+so if a new socket need to enter this thread the calling thread will be
+blocked.
+
+a solution is to have more than one thread type.
+thread which test and read socket (perhaps wire in socket to)
+thread which to process a network message queue.
+(and perhaps thread which send network message)
+
+but it increase the number of thread so the maximum
+number of client is lesser.
+
+but i'm not really used to programming with thread yet so perhaps
+my problem are not really problems.
+
+i hope this can help and you can understand me :))
+and i think i'll take a look at http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+to ...
+
+good luck
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 11:33:21 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SAXLR21073
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:33:21 +0100 (CET)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12016
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:37:10 +0100
+Message-ID: <00b001c0a171$d87497f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org><3A9AA57B.9353F87@zerodeux.net> <9454848754.20010226201711@teleaction.de>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:33:10 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] State Threads library
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+There is a very very big problem in the State Threads library
+
+The State Threads library is a derivative of the Netscape Portable Runtime
+library (NSPR) and therefore is distributed under the Netscape Public
+License (NPL).
+
+And the NPL is not compatible with GPL licence so we could not use it in
+your GPL project!!!
+
+Another less important problem is that it doesn't work on windows and our
+server must be able to run on windows (for debugging purpose for example)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Feb 28 13:19:00 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SCIvR21624
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800
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+	by morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1SCGHB216472
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800 (WST)
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010228201617.Q351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd"
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+Subject: [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+Hi Guys,
+    Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+    to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+    extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+    and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+
+    To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+    and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=<position of the 
+    Xxf86vm lib> - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+    it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+
+    Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.configure.in"
+
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -r1.23 configure.in
+232a233,251
+> dnl ============================================
+> dnl Check for XF86VidMode extension (-lXxf86vm)
+> dnl ============================================
+> AC_MSG_CHECKING("for XF86VidMode extension")
+> AC_ARG_WITH( xf86vidmode,
+>     [ --with-xf86vidmode=<path>     path to the XF86VidMode lib.
+>                           e.g. /usr/X11R6/lib],
+>     [VMLIB_DIR=$with_xf86vidmode
+>       AC_MSG_RESULT(using VidMode library located in $with_xf86vidmode.)],
+>     AC_MSG_RESULT(Compiling without Xf86VidMode and hence fullscreen support to compile with XF86VidMode support, use --with-xf86vidmode=<pathtolib>)
+> )
+> 
+> if test X"$VMLIB_DIR" != X;
+> then
+>     LIBS="-L$VMLIB_DIR -lXxf86vm $LIBS";
+>     CXXFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS -DXF86VIDMODE";
+> fi
+> 
+> 
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.driver_opengl.cpp"
+
+Index: driver_opengl.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.75
+diff -r1.75 driver_opengl.cpp
+140d139
+< 	_FullScreen= false;
+144c143,149
+< #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX) // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     memset(&_OldScreenMode,0,sizeof(_OldScreenMode));// zero the old screen mode
+> #endif //XF86VIDMODE
+> #endif
+> 
+> 	_FullScreen= false;
+225a231
+>         {
+226a233
+>         }
+351c358
+< 	  {
+---
+>     {
+353c360
+< 	  }
+---
+>     }
+355c362
+< 	  {
+---
+>     {
+357c364
+< 	  }
+---
+>     }
+364c371,385
+< 	attr.override_redirect = False;
+---
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     // If we're going to attempt fullscreen, we need to set redirect to True,
+>     // This basically places the window with no borders in the top left 
+>     // corner of the screen.
+>     if (mode.Windowed)
+>     {
+>         attr.override_redirect = False;
+>     }
+>     else
+>     {
+> 	    attr.override_redirect = True;
+>     }
+> #else
+>     attr.override_redirect = False;
+> #endif
+409,411c430,507
+< //	XEvent event;
+< //	XIfEvent(dpy, &event, WaitForNotify, (char *)this);
+< 
+---
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     if (!mode.Windowed)
+>     {
+>     
+>         // Set window to the right size, map it to the display, and raise it
+>         // to the front
+>         XResizeWindow(dpy,win,mode.Width,mode.Height);
+>         XMapRaised(dpy,win);
+>         XRaiseWindow(dpy, win);
+> 
+>         // grab the mouse and keyboard on the fullscreen window 
+>         if ((XGrabPointer(dpy, win, True, 0,
+>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync,
+>                           win, None, CurrentTime) != GrabSuccess) ||
+>             (XGrabKeyboard(dpy, win, True,
+>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync, CurrentTime) != 0) )
+>         {
+>             // Until I work out how to deal with this nicely, it just gives
+>             // an error and exits the prorgam.
+>             nlerror("Unable to grab keyboard and mouse\n");
+>         }
+>         else
+>         {
+>             // Save the old screen mode and dotclock
+>             memset(&_OldScreenMode, 0, sizeof(_OldScreenMode));
+>             XF86VidModeGetModeLine(dpy, 
+>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                    &_OldDotClock,
+>                                    &_OldScreenMode);
+>             // Save the old viewport
+>             XF86VidModeGetViewPort(dpy, 
+>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                    &_OldX,
+>                                    &_OldY);
+>     
+>             // get a list of modes, search for an appropriate one.
+>             XF86VidModeModeInfo **modes;
+>             int nmodes;
+>             if (XF86VidModeGetAllModeLines(dpy,
+>                                            DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                            &nmodes,&modes))
+>             {
+>                 int mode_index = -1; // Gah, magic numbers all bad. 
+>                 for (int i = 0; i < nmodes; i++)
+>                 {
+>                     nldebug("Available mode - %dx%d\n",mode.Width,mode.Height);
+>                     if( (modes[i]->hdisplay == mode.Width) &&
+>                         (modes[i]->vdisplay == mode.Height))
+>                     {
+>                         mode_index = i;
+>                     }
+>                 }
+>                 // Switch to the mode
+>                 if (mode_index != -1)
+>                 {
+>                     if(XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,
+>                                                DefaultScreen(dpy), 
+>                                                modes[mode_index]))
+>                     {
+>                         nlinfo("Switching to mode %dx%d,\n",mode.Width, 
+>                                                             mode.Height);
+>                         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),0, 0);
+>                         _FullScreen = true;
+>                     }
+>                 }
+>                 else
+>                 {
+>                     // This is a problem, since we've nuked the border from 
+>                     // window in the setup stage, until I work out how
+>                     // to get it back (recreate window? seems excessive)
+>                     nlerror("Couldn't find an appropriate mode %dx%d\n",
+>                                                                 mode.Width,
+>                                                                 mode.Height);
+>                 }
+>             }
+>         }
+>     }
+> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+659c755,776
+< #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX)// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> 
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     if(_FullScreen)
+>     {
+>         XF86VidModeModeInfo info;
+>         nlinfo("Switching back to original mode \n");
+> 
+>         // This is a bit ugly - a quick hack to copy the ModeLine structure 
+>         // into the modeInfo structure.
+>         memcpy((XF86VidModeModeLine *)((char *)&info + sizeof(info.dotclock)), &_OldScreenMode, sizeof(XF86VidModeModeLine));
+>         info.dotclock = _OldDotClock;
+> 
+>         nlinfo("Mode is %dx%d,\n",info.hdisplay,info.vdisplay);
+>         XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),&info);
+>         nlinfo("Switching viewporr to %d,%d,\n",_OldX, _OldY);
+>         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),_OldX,_OldY);
+>         // Ungrab the keyboard (probably not necessary);
+>         XUngrabKeyboard(dpy, CurrentTime);
+>     }
+> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+> #endif // NL_OS_UNIX
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.driver_opengl.h"
+
+Index: driver_opengl.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.50
+diff -r1.50 driver_opengl.h
+40a41
+> #include <X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h>
+219a221
+> 	bool						_FullScreen;
+230d231
+< 	bool						_FullScreen;
+238a240,244
+> //#ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     int                         _OldDotClock;   // old dotclock
+>     XF86VidModeModeLine         _OldScreenMode; // old modeline
+>     int                         _OldX, _OldY;   //Viewport settings
+> //#endif //XF86VIDMODE
+240d245
+< 
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd--
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Wed Feb 28 14:34:32 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SDYVR22095
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:34:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (unknown [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B40E2576
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:35:21 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:30:32 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.1 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+> much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+> said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+> case, we have to forget the solution where each
+> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+> and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Feb 28 15:11:27 2001
+Received: from smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr (smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr [212.180.1.69])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SEBQR22279
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:11:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
+Received: from mx1.mail.easynet.fr (slb-1-sippriv.mail.easynet.fr [10.0.1.57])
+	by smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3E24BB9A
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:08:50 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from cblt.org (nemo-gw.nemo.com [212.180.94.137])
+	by mx1.mail.easynet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50104B6AA
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:08:45 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A9D06ED.2030101@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:10:53 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+> set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+> Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+> same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+> Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+
+ok this is a solution
+but as i said in my last mail the problem
+is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+
+under windows i know other solution than select / poll but under
+unixes i don't know other solutions.
+
+some one knows other one ?
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+From yan@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 15:18:22 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SEIMR22345
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:18:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from yan@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc5.nevrax.net (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16448
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:22:11 +0100
+Message-Id: <200102281422.PAA16448@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches
+From: Yan Babilliot <yan@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <20010228201617.Q351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+X-Mailer: Evolution (0.8/+cvs.2001.02.08.08.59 - Preview Release)
+Date: 28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+putain quand je vois ca ca mfout les nerfs d'informaticien. Zauraaient
+du vous acheter des pots de yaourt avec des ficelles s'aurait ete moins
+cher ... 
+
+
+
+On 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> Hi Guys,
+>     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+>     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+>     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+>     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+> 
+>     To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+>     and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=<position of the 
+>     Xxf86vm lib> - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+>     it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+> 
+>     Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+> 
+> Leighton...
+> 
+> --
+> 
+> Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+> Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+> (08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+> 0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 15:28:47 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SESlR22430
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:28:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16650
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:32:36 +0100
+Message-ID: <00e201c0a192$bc1565f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net> <3A9D06ED.2030101@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:28:35 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+
+There's no 1000000 solutions :)
+In fact, if you want to be portable, there s only one solution (if think),
+it s select() that is available on all BSD socket system (all unix, linux
+and windows)
+The other solution is poll() that it should have better performance but is
+conform to XPG4-UNIX (not available on windows)
+And other solutions are OS specific (on unix, i don t know other solutions).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Wed Feb 28 15:34:51 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SEYoR22477
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:34:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (unknown [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8279E2576
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:35:44 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3A9D19AF.139252D9@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:30:55 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.1 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net> <3A9D06ED.2030101@cblt.org> <00e201c0a192$bc1565f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+From yan@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 15:40:51 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SEepR22561
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:40:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from yan@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc5.nevrax.net (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17009
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:44:40 +0100
+Message-Id: <200102281444.PAA17009@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches
+From: Yan Babilliot <yan@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <200102281422.PAA16448@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+X-Mailer: Evolution (0.8/+cvs.2001.02.08.08.59 - Preview Release)
+Date: 28 Feb 2001 15:38:32 +0100
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+oops sorry ;)   
+nel@nevrax.org wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+:(
+
+> On 28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100, Yan Babilliot wrote:
+
+> putain quand je vois ca ca mfout les nerfs d'informaticien. Zauraaient
+> du vous acheter des pots de yaourt avec des ficelles s'aurait ete moins
+> cher ... 
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> On 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> > Hi Guys,
+> >     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+> >     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+> >     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+> >     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+> > 
+> >     To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+> >     and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=<position of the 
+> >     Xxf86vm lib> - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+> >     it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+> > 
+> >     Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+> > 
+> > Leighton...
+> > 
+> > --
+> > 
+> > Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+> > Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+> > (08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+> > 0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 16:01:28 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SF1SR22682
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:01:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17477
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:05:17 +0100
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:05:17 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches
+Message-ID: <20010228160517.C16893@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102281422.PAA16448@nevrax.com> <200102281444.PAA17009@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+In-Reply-To: <200102281444.PAA17009@nevrax.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Yan Babilliot:
+> oops sorry ;)   
+> nel@nevrax.org wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+> :(
+
+Too much network destroys the network.
+
+I'm rather fond of smoke signals myself. A lot better than can'n string
+for long range transmission, but the bandwidth sucks :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Feb 28 16:11:44 2001
+Received: from smarthost1.mail.easynet.fr (smarthost1.mail.easynet.fr [212.180.1.68])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SFBhR22756
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:11:43 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <3A9D151A.1060804@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:11:22 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net> <3A9D06ED.2030101@cblt.org> <00e201c0a192$bc1565f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D19AF.139252D9@zerodeux.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+i'm aggry with you
+at this time i'll use select for windows and linux (or poll for linux)
+and design my server so that i can implement another better solution.
+
+has i said before better solution under windows are
+ - are windows message and event and i don't want use it
+ - overlapped I/O but i don't really understand how it works
+   so it's not easy to design a server which is able to use select and this
+   technic. perhaps you already know it but you can take a look at
+http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/articles/io-strategies.html
+
+
+> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 16:50:03 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SFo3R22978
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:49:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:49:09 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs
+Message-ID: <20010228164909.A27502@nevrax.com>
+References: <200102271101.f1RB1OR13797@www.nevrax.org> <01022716443000.02983@localhost.localdomain>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <01022716443000.02983@localhost.localdomain>; from bebarker@meginc.com on Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 04:44:30PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+> 
+> Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+
+I change the OpenGL checking 2 days ago, and it's, now, checking the <GL/gl.h>
+file for the define GL_VERSION_1_2, as we are using OpenGL 1.2.
+
+Before that it was checking for the define GL_GLEXT_VERSION in the <GL/glext.h>
+file ... i now, that wasn't very clean :-(
+
+Otherwise, that could come from the fact that /usr/X11R6/include/ isn't in
+your default include directory list, ithat apear on some system and i plan
+to do this type of checking soon, in that case you should try to to execute
+the configure script as following :
+
+  $ CXXFLAGS="-pipe -I/usr/X11R6/include" ./configure [..]
+
+
+I hope that will help,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Feb 28 17:24:14 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SGOER23160
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:23:20 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:23:20 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches
+Message-ID: <20010228172320.A27672@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010228201617.Q351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010228201617.Q351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>; from dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 08:16:17PM +0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+>
+>     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+>     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+>     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+>     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+>
+> [...]
+
+Nice ! :-)))
+
+Give some time to apply and test your patches, and it will be "integrated" ;-)
+
+Thanks,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Wed Feb 28 18:38:22 2001
+Received: from weasle.jebc5.k12.mo.us ([204.184.252.120])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SHcJR23502
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:38:20 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:46:42 GMT
+Message-ID: <076901c0a1ab$a3dd6910$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net> <3A9D06ED.2030101@cblt.org> <00e201c0a192$bc1565f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D19AF.139252D9@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:04:59 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of
+adopting
+> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of
+service
+> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it
+would
+> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get
+the
+> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract
+model
+> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+already implemented.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Wed Feb 28 19:47:06 2001
+Received: from racine.cybercable.fr (racine.cybercable.fr [212.198.0.201])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1SIl6R23855
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:47:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 28 Feb 2001 18:44:29 -0000
+Message-ID: <3A9D48F0.7000505@cblt.org>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:52:32 +0100
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net> <3A9D06ED.2030101@cblt.org> <00e201c0a192$bc1565f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D19AF.139252D9@zerodeux.net> <076901c0a1ab$a3dd6910$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+you're right
+many people and project were confront to this problem
+and they resolve it.
+
+but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+
+i think for a web server
+the browser connect to the server when it need something
+but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+you're client is always connected to the server
+it's not exactly the same things.
+
+> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+> already implemented.
+> 
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+From elw@stderr.org Wed Feb 28 19:54:19 2001
+Received: from eckhart.stderr.org (root@aph.frognet.net [216.3.3.138])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SIsGR23906
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:54:17 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:51:45 -0500
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:51:45 -0500 (EST)
+From: elijah wright <elw@stderr.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+In-Reply-To: <3A9D48F0.7000505@cblt.org>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102281350290.30102-100000@eckhart.stderr.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+> you're client is always connected to the server
+> it's not exactly the same things.
+
+as i recall, the jabber.org people have done some scalability work for
+just this kind of thing- their IM client is an always-on/always-available
+service.
+
+might be fun to ask some of them what their ideas on this are.
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Wed Feb 28 20:20:18 2001
+Received: from weasle.jebc5.k12.mo.us (root@[204.184.252.120])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SJKHR24080
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+Message-ID: <078a01c0a1b9$e5158b70$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3A9537F5.5030407@cblt.org> <20010226174939.A19771@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010228083106.A24329@IDEALX.com> <001501c0a165$da374d00$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D0B88.36382665@zerodeux.net> <3A9D06ED.2030101@cblt.org> <00e201c0a192$bc1565f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3A9D19AF.139252D9@zerodeux.net> <076901c0a1ab$a3dd6910$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <3A9D48F0.7000505@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:08:22 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Nicolas Hognon" <cblt@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+>
+> i think for a web server
+> the browser connect to the server when it need something
+> but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+> you're client is always connected to the server
+> it's not exactly the same things.
+
+If nothing else this simply means that it has spent a great deal of time
+optimizing opening and closing connections (and waiting on incoming
+connections).  Perhaps combining their opening/closing optimizations with
+the optimizations Jabber has made for always-on connections would give us
+the best of both worlds.  I'd be willing to bet that Jabber has already
+borrowed a lot of code from projects like Apache.
+
+Anyway, at this point I don't think I have anything else usefull to add to
+the discussion since I doubt I'll get around to doing the research myself so
+back into lurker mode. :)
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+From nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org Wed Feb 28 23:17:22 2001
+Received: from bubastis (r178m38.cybercable.tm.fr [195.132.178.38])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f1SMHLR24910
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:17:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1006)
+	id 058634EC07; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:13:12 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:13:12 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Message-ID: <20010228231312.A4217@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i
+In-Reply-To: <076901c0a1ab$a3dd6910$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from zane@supernova.org on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 09:04:59AM -0800
+From: nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org (Bernard Hugueney)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+* Zane <zane@supernova.org> [010228 19:17]:
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+>
+>
+> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+> already implemented.
+>
+> -E.J. Wilburn
+> zane@supernova.org
+>
+Indeed, this is a MUCH debated suject. But I'm afraid Apache is not
+the fastest example to follow (they have special constraints such as modules
+interface) Zeus and TUX Threaded linUX webserver or BOA come to mind.
+http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html seems interesting but a nit out of date ...
+Anyway, there was a discussion on lkml on how to overcome select()/poll()
+shortcomings with a new API. If it made it to kernel 2.4, you should be
+looking that way.
+
+Bernard
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Wed Feb 28 23:32:07 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1SMW6R25025
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:32:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 8801 invoked by uid 1001); 28 Feb 2001 22:28:15 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010228222815.8800.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:15 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+I too am hoping to get snowballs running on a Debian/GNU Linux
+machine.  I too have run into the error message mentioned in the
+title.  I'd love to see a patch for it.  So far I've traced it down to
+a call to setupTexture which is exiting the program.  My C++ skills
+are not strong enough to hunt this down any further.
+
+I have an Athalon 700, 512M ram, and GeForce 256.  
+Libc6 2.2.2, 
+gcc 2.95.3, 
+
+Other info available on request.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Love is like a snowmobile flying over the
+System Administrator   frozen tundra that suddenly flips, pinning you
+Got.net                underneath.  At night the ice weasles come. "
+<robert@got.net>             -- Matt Groenig (Simpsons creator)
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Mar  1 02:42:39 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f211gWR26567
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 02:42:33 +0100 (CET)
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+	by mussel.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA05313
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:39:53 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:39:53 +0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)
+Message-ID: <20010301093953.A5304@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+References: <20010228222815.8800.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.12i
+In-Reply-To: <20010228222815.8800.qmail@paradox.got.net>; from robert@paradox.got.net on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:28:15PM -0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:28:15PM -0800, robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> Hello,
+> 
+> I too am hoping to get snowballs running on a Debian/GNU Linux
+> machine.  I too have run into the error message mentioned in the
+> title.  I'd love to see a patch for it.  So far I've traced it down to
+> a call to setupTexture which is exiting the program.  My C++ skills
+> are not strong enough to hunt this down any further.
+cut'n'paste from one of my previous emails :) :
+        the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about
+          being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+          it down to some of the texture loading code in
+          code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse 
+          texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+          the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked   
+          out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+          late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+          and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+If you still can't get it to work, give me an email and I can probably 
+send you a patch. (This code itself looks like it's correct behaviour,
+the problem is with whatever's feeding this with files to load. My 'fix'
+is a workaround until i get the time to trace where it's getting fed
+from. )
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Mar  1 03:47:53 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:45:11 +0800 (WST)
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 10:45:11 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Message-ID: <20010301104511.R351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+References: <076901c0a1ab$a3dd6910$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010228231312.A4217@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+In-Reply-To: <20010228231312.A4217@bernard-hugueney.org>; from nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 11:13:12PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 11:13:12PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> * Zane <zane@supernova.org> [010228 19:17]:
+> > ----- Original Message -----
+> > From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+> > Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+> >
+> >
+> > Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+> > servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+> > quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+> > find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+> > already implemented.
+> >
+> > -E.J. Wilburn
+> > zane@supernova.org
+> >
+> Indeed, this is a MUCH debated suject. But I'm afraid Apache is not
+> the fastest example to follow (they have special constraints such as modules
+> interface) Zeus and TUX Threaded linUX webserver or BOA come to mind.
+> http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html seems interesting but a nit out of date ...
+> Anyway, there was a discussion on lkml on how to overcome select()/poll()
+> shortcomings with a new API. If it made it to kernel 2.4, you should be
+> looking that way.
+> 
+<troll>
+Hey! Why don't we shove the networking engine in kernel-space! Then we
+can stop all these other pesky processes from pre-empting us and stuff.
+</troll>
+I'm not sure if this is a really important issue right now. As many
+people have noted, premature optimization is the source of all evil. 
+What we _need_ is a good api to the networking code, so that the 
+underlying code can be optimized later. Actually optimizing the way it works
+should be dealt with when you need to deal with it. After all, it may work out
+that the control code behind it all ends up needing 1/4 of a cpu/thread, at 
+which point this problem morphs into a completely different one. 
+Someone might release a nice lightweight threads architecture in 4 months
+meaning the point is unimportant. 
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From nel@elwar.com Thu Mar  1 06:42:34 2001
+Received: from elwar.com ([24.214.39.133])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f215gWR28350
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 06:42:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nel@elwar.com)
+Received: from elwar.com (IDENT:nel@elwar.com [127.0.0.1])
+	by elwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01596
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:49:50 -0500
+Message-Id: <200103010649.BAA01596@elwar.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:49:50 -0500
+From: nel@elwar.com
+Subject: [Nel] Compile error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've been trying to get the client to compile and I've gotten through
+quite a bit as far as installing freetype and stlport and getting
+a satisfied configuration. I'm running it on Linux but I get the
+following error:
+
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/nel/code/nel/include -I/home/nel/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o sight.o lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/nel/code/nel/lib -L/home/nel/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+
+						Elwar
+
+From brenden@rcsis.com Thu Mar  1 06:46:22 2001
+Received: from smtp.rcsis.com (smtp.rcsis.com [208.45.228.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f215kKR28373
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 06:46:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from brenden@rcsis.com)
+Received: from brenden2001towe (253.dsl6660144.dhcp.rcsis.com [66.60.144.253])
+	by smtp.rcsis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04833
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:40:13 -0800
+Message-ID: <000c01c0a212$d6692560$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+From: "Brenden Towey" <brenden@rcsis.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:45:35 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
+Subject: [Nel] STLPort...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Ok, first post.  Sorry I didn't go through the archives, I'm just lazy =
+that way.
+
+What is STLPort and where do I get it?  www.stlport.org is not found by =
+google (so it therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the =
+compile time #error in nl_types.h:
+#  error "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+
+Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to the command line or is there an =
+additional component that I need to get?
+
+Thanks for any help you can give!
+
+Brenden
+non-uber NeL lurker
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
+<HTML>
+<HEAD>
+
+<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ok, first post.&nbsp; Sorry I didn't =
+go through=20
+the archives, I'm just lazy that way.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What is STLPort and where do I get =
+it?&nbsp; <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.stlport.org">www.stlport.org</A> is not found by =
+google (so it=20
+therefore can't exist ;-).&nbsp; I'm of course referring to the compile =
+time=20
+#error in nl_types.h:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>#&nbsp; error &quot;You need STLPort =
+to compile=20
+this project (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.sltport.org">www.sltport.org</A>)&quot;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to =
+the command=20
+line or is there an additional component that I need to =
+get?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks for any help you can =
+give!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Brenden</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>non-uber NeL =
+lurker</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300--
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Mar  1 09:48:34 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f218mXR29240
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:48:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29156
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:52:21 +0100
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:52:21 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Message-ID: <20010301095221.A29085@nevrax.com>
+References: <076901c0a1ab$a3dd6910$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010228231312.A4217@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010301104511.R351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <20010301104511.R351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Leighton Haynes:
+> I'm not sure if this is a really important issue right now. As many
+> people have noted, premature optimization is the source of all evil. 
+
+It is somewhat important. There are optimisations that can be done further,
+but there are also fundamental design issues that reflect how everything
+else in the server code has to be written.
+
+You do not program an event-driven system like you would on a thread-based
+system. Converting from one model to another would be horribly painful,
+which is why the "right" one has to be selected. Once we pick one, we'll
+have to stick by it, and the more code is produced under a model, the
+harder it becomes to switch.
+
+Which is why the decision about this was deferred until it can no longer
+be truly avoided.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com Thu Mar  1 09:54:11 2001
+Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f218s9R29270
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:54:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com)
+Received: from tom ([62.253.45.79]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP
+          id <20010301085129.RUGA283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@tom>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:51:29 +0000
+Message-ID: <000e01c0a22c$63ba5330$4f2dfd3e@tom>
+From: "Tom wright" <thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:48:29 -0000
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] Network Connections
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Guys/Gals,
+
+Having followed your arguements so far, i though i would chuck in my 2 p =
+worth.
+
+1) i think you are going to find it very difficult to scale a server to =
+5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme unless its a BIG server. =
+ Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.  But this is just my =
+opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.
+
+2) On windows NT/2k, using async sockets with events is a very efficent =
+way of handling socket comms, and its quite easy to demultiplex the =
+events to work out which socket caused the event.  I would recommend =
+this route, as one thread could then wait for events to be generated on =
+say 30 sockets and then take appropriate action.  unfortunately i can =
+not tell you how well this is going to scale :-( Just look up WSAEvents =
+for READ, SEND and CLOSE.  It does make your sending more entertaining =
+however :-)
+
+3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a much =
+lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+
+4) Some OS's have limits to the size of the array to select, Windows is =
+one of them, typical values seem to be 64.  However using values this =
+large, you are going to spend time thrashing the array looking for the =
+source of the select, with events this is much easier and quicker, tho =
+not linux compatible.  Wrapping up the comms like this specific to each =
+platform is not going to be to hard, just code to a common interface.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+PS A binary of the next release for windows would be nice, takes HOURS =
+to build :-)
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Guys/Gals,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Having followed your arguements so far, =
+i though i=20
+would chuck in my 2 p worth.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) i think you are going to find it =
+very difficult=20
+to scale a server to 5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme =
+unless its=20
+a BIG server.&nbsp; Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.&nbsp; =
+But=20
+this is just my opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) On windows NT/2k, using async =
+sockets with=20
+events is a very efficent way of handling socket comms, and its quite =
+easy to=20
+demultiplex the events to work out which socket caused the event.&nbsp; =
+I would=20
+recommend this route, as one thread could then wait for events to be =
+generated=20
+on say 30 sockets and then take appropriate action.&nbsp; unfortunately =
+i can=20
+not tell you how&nbsp;well this is going to scale :-( Just look up =
+WSAEvents for=20
+READ, SEND and CLOSE.&nbsp; It does make your sending more entertaining =
+however=20
+:-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Windows did support something called =
+micro=20
+threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&nbsp; These=20
+( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( =
+as in=20
+IIS ).&nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some useful=20
+results.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4) Some OS's have limits to the size of =
+the array=20
+to select, Windows is one of them, typical values seem to be 64.&nbsp; =
+However=20
+using values this large, you are going to spend time thrashing the array =
+looking=20
+for the source of the select, with events this is much easier and =
+quicker, tho=20
+not linux compatible.&nbsp; Wrapping up the comms like this specific to =
+each=20
+platform is not going to be to hard, just code to a common=20
+interface.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PS A binary of the next release for =
+windows would=20
+be nice, takes HOURS to build :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0--
+
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Thu Mar  1 10:35:48 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f219ZkR29587
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:33:08 +0800 (WST)
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:33:07 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+Message-ID: <20010301173307.S351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+References: <076901c0a1ab$a3dd6910$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010228231312.A4217@bernard-hugueney.org> <20010301104511.R351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> <20010301095221.A29085@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+In-Reply-To: <20010301095221.A29085@nevrax.com>; from archer@nevrax.com on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:52:21AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:52:21AM +0100, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> According to Leighton Haynes:
+> > I'm not sure if this is a really important issue right now. As many
+> > people have noted, premature optimization is the source of all evil. 
+> 
+> It is somewhat important. There are optimisations that can be done further,
+> but there are also fundamental design issues that reflect how everything
+> else in the server code has to be written.
+> 
+> You do not program an event-driven system like you would on a thread-based
+> system. Converting from one model to another would be horribly painful,
+> which is why the "right" one has to be selected. Once we pick one, we'll
+> have to stick by it, and the more code is produced under a model, the
+> 
+> Which is why the decision about this was deferred until it can no longer
+> be truly avoided.
+
+*ponder*
+
+I can't see the fundamental difference between an event-driven and
+a thread-based model. In an event-driven model , some central arbiter
+gets the input, grabs the data representing the 'entity', processes it, 
+and sends a reply. In a thread-based model, each entitiy is a thread,
+the entity receives a message , processes it, and sends a reply. 
+The fundamental differences, are in the message addressing, and 
+the context switching. 
+
+What are the issues here? So far I've seen only discussion of
+how many threads we can handle, which doesn't seem to be the 
+central issue. What we really need, is a list of the requirements
+for this particular sub-system. (Perhaps they exist somewhere, 
+but I haven't seen them).
+
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Mar  1 11:42:48 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21AglR30023
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:42:48 +0100 (CET)
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+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA31532
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:46:35 +0100
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:46:35 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+Message-ID: <20010301114635.B30848@nevrax.com>
+References: <000e01c0a22c$63ba5330$4f2dfd3e@tom>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Tom wright:
+> 1) i think you are going to find it very difficult to scale a server
+> to 5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme unless its a BIG
+> server.  Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.  But this is
+> just my opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.
+
+EQ doesn't struggle with 2000 because of server size. A "server" on EQ
+consists (to the best of my knowledge) of about 15 or so quadriprocessor
+RISC boards, with all nearly 100 zones (now) spread of these. They
+struggle not because the server can't handle the load, but because the
+content of the game can't handle the load (i.e. problems stem not from
+too many people for CPU time, they stem from too many people for not
+enough spawns).
+
+No MMOG so far can use a single server, no matter how big it is. What
+we term server, or shard, or whatever, typical technical litterature
+terms 'cluster'. And using the right architecture can make a cluster
+very large, until it collapses not from load, but when adding a new
+note consumes more CPU spent in inter-node communications than the node
+itself adds to the whole.
+
+> 2) On windows NT/2k, using async sockets with events is...
+...
+> 3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had...
+
+All these optimisation techniques are nice. But they're heavily dependent
+on Windows itself. We do want our server to run under windows, for debugging
+purpose (and for the odd amateur out there who would want to run a
+smallish server on his home machine), but we clearly do NOT intend our
+production servers to run under windows.
+
+Which is why we're looking at a reasonably portable architecture, and why
+these suggestions, as nice as they are, cannot be used, because they tie
+too much the architecture :(
+
+> PS A binary of the next release for windows would be nice, takes HOURS to build :-)
+
+As much as people would love one, it's right now a "marketing" decision,
+so that we attract people that really want to look at the source, and not
+just people who want to look at the finished product without caring about
+how it's done :)
+
+(However, some Nevrax people, and maybe external people as well, have set
+ up binary archives on their own private home pages. Ask, and you'll
+ probably find it. But officially, we do not support or provide these
+ releases. Yet)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Mar  1 12:29:21 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21BTKR30341
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+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22744
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:26:25 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:26:22 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <104859085.20010301122622@teleaction.de>
+CC: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort...
+In-reply-To: <000c01c0a212$d6692560$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+References: <000c01c0a212$d6692560$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hope you'll find STL here
+http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/
+
+Thursday, March 01, 2001, 6:45:35 AM, you wrote:
+
+BT> Ok, first post.  Sorry I didn't go through the archives, I'm just lazy that way.
+
+BT> What is STLPort and where do I get it?  www.stlport.org is not found by google (so it therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the compile time #error in nl_types.h:
+BT> #  error "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+
+BT> Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to the command line or is there an additional component that I need to get?
+
+BT> Thanks for any help you can give!
+
+BT> Brenden
+BT> non-uber NeL lurker
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Mar  1 12:37:59 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21BbvR30396
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:37:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22958
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:35:04 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:34:59 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <1031376486.20010301123459@teleaction.de>
+CC: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+In-reply-To: <20010228231312.A4217@bernard-hugueney.org>
+References: <20010228231312.A4217@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+
+Wednesday, February 28, 2001, 11:13:12 PM, you wrote:
+
+BH> * Zane <zane@supernova.org> [010228 19:17]:
+>> ----- Original Message -----
+>> From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+>> Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+>> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+>> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+>> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+>> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+>> already implemented.
+I think what Slashdot.org is a right place to ask our "Network Engine"
+question. I hope it'll gave us a lot useful ideas.
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Mar  1 14:18:36 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21DIaR31108
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:18:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:17:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:17:37 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort...
+Message-ID: <20010301141737.A33498@nevrax.com>
+References: <000c01c0a212$d6692560$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <000c01c0a212$d6692560$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>; from brenden@rcsis.com on Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 09:45:35PM -0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Brenden,
+
+
+Brenden Towey wrote:
+> 
+> What is STLPort and where do I get it?  www.stlport.org is not found by google (so it therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the compile time #error in nl_types.h:
+> #  error "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+
+STLPort is an open-source library that build a complete, multiplatform ANSI C++
+Standard library with SGI STL with a better debug mode and some extensions.
+
+You will find it on the following web site :-)
+
+   <URL:http://www.stlport.org/>
+
+
+> Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to the command line or is there an additional component that I need to get?
+
+You should check the INSTALL file, it's describe all the requirements (and
+where to find them) and explain how to compile the beast on GNU/Linux an on
+Windows platforms.
+
+
+> Thanks for any help you can give!
+
+You are welcome ...
+
+
+Have fun :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Mar  1 14:27:13 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21DRBR31187
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:26:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:26:11 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compile error
+Message-ID: <20010301142611.B33498@nevrax.com>
+References: <200103010649.BAA01596@elwar.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <200103010649.BAA01596@elwar.com>; from nel@elwar.com on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:49:50AM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi, 
+
+> c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/nel/code/nel/include -I/home/nel/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o sight.o lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/nel/code/nel/lib -L/home/nel/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+> /usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+> 
+> I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+
+It seems that the compiler cannot find the libnelnet.so file.
+
+You compile it as if the NeL instalation prefix (/usr/local/ by default or
+what you defined when calling the configure script) is /home/nel/code/nel
+which seems to be the CVS directory.
+
+Could you check were is placed the libnelnet.so file ?
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From brenden@rcsis.com Thu Mar  1 16:41:57 2001
+Received: from smtp.rcsis.com (smtp.rcsis.com [208.45.228.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21FfuR32073
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+	Thu, 1 Mar 2001 07:35:47 -0800
+Message-ID: <000c01c0a266$0af583c0$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+From: "Brenden Towey" <brenden@rcsis.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>, <valignat@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort...
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 07:41:11 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+
+>   <URL:http://www.stlport.org/>
+
+
+Thanks so much!  Um, the #error in types_nl.h has this misspelled as
+"www.sltport.org" (note that the "L" and the "T" are transposed).  It might
+prevent future confusion if this was corrected.  I really wasn't kidding
+when I said that Google had no idea what this was. :-)
+
+Fast, accurate help on the mailing list for a newbie, can't ask for better
+than that...
+
+Brenden
+
+
+
+From nel@elwar.com Thu Mar  1 17:19:53 2001
+Received: from elwar.com (user-24-214-39-133.knology.net [24.214.39.133])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21GJmR32353
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:19:49 +0100 (CET)
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+	by elwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04234
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:26:58 -0500
+Message-Id: <200103011726.MAA04234@elwar.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 12:26:58 -0500
+From: nel@elwar.com
+Subject: [Nel] Compile error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've gotten pretty far as far as getting freetype and STLport installed
+but I'm having difficulty on the final compile. After configuring the
+client and doing a bootstrap I try the make and get this:
+
+make[2]: Entering directory `/home/nel/code/client/src'
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/nel/code/nel/include -I/home/nel/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o sight.o lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/nel/code/nel/lib -L/home/nel/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+make[2]: *** [client] Error 1
+make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/nel/code/client/src'
+make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/nel/code/client'
+make: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2
+
+
+Any ideas on what settings I have wrong?
+
+								Elwar
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Thu Mar  1 23:41:03 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21Mf0R34846
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+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f21MdSl07801
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:39:29 -0800
+Message-ID: <003501c0a2a0$4ecb3060$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000e01c0a22c$63ba5330$4f2dfd3e@tom>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:38:16 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+  3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a =
+much lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+I come from a nix background, but I wouldn't doubt that windows also has =
+had some implementation of microthreads.  The best current way to use =
+microthreads afaik is stackless python (stackless.org) which I (as the =
+game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of the game my =
+company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel library.  =
+Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming concept called =
+continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a program from =
+any given point- that includes it's state and any branch of code it =
+might follow from there.  Stackless Python provides a way to reference =
+continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a =
+neat trick u should read about).  Writing microthreads is as simple as =
+defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same time with a =
+special call- they are executed in parralel within the same thread and =
+each requires almost no overhead above what they would if executed in =
+serial.  EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also plans to use stackless as the =
+basis for their game mechanics.  I dont have any benchmarks on its =
+network performance or scalability, but I plan to test it soon.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Windows did support something =
+called micro=20
+  threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&nbsp;=20
+  These ( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for =
+scalable IO (=20
+  as in IIS ).&nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some useful=20
+  results.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I come from a nix background, but I =
+wouldn't doubt=20
+that windows also has had some implementation of microthreads.&nbsp; The =
+best=20
+current way to use microthreads afaik is stackless python =
+(stackless.org) which=20
+I (as the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of =
+the game=20
+my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel =
+library.&nbsp;=20
+Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming concept called=20
+continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a program from =
+any given=20
+point- that includes it's state and any branch of code it might follow =
+from=20
+there.&nbsp; Stackless Python provides a way to reference continuations- =
+which=20
+requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a neat trick u should =
+read=20
+about).&nbsp; Writing microthreads is as simple as defining a bunch of =
+functions=20
+and calling them at the same time with a special call- they are executed =
+in=20
+parralel within the same thread and each requires almost no overhead =
+above what=20
+they would if executed in serial.&nbsp; EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also =
+plans to=20
+use stackless as the basis for their game mechanics.&nbsp; I dont have =
+any=20
+benchmarks on its network performance or scalability, but I plan to test =
+it=20
+soon.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Warnock</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In-Orbit =
+Entertainment</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150--
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Fri Mar  2 00:43:59 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f21NhwR35271
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:43:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur ([207.44.176.190])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f21NgSl08261
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:42:28 -0800
+Message-ID: <005501c0a2a9$1b465220$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000e01c0a22c$63ba5330$4f2dfd3e@tom> <003501c0a2a0$4ecb3060$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:41:15 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+oops:)
+
+It is actually http://www.stackless.com=20
+
+Here are more relavent urls:
+http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html
+http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp
+http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/
+
+We hope to use the MIT exokernel the last url refers to as a stripped =
+down os for the servers.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Michael Warnock=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:38 PM
+  Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+
+
+    3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a =
+much lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+  I come from a nix background, but I wouldn't doubt that windows also =
+has had some implementation of microthreads.  The best current way to =
+use microthreads afaik is stackless python (stackless.org) which I (as =
+the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of the =
+game my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel =
+library.  Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming =
+concept called continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a =
+program from any given point- that includes it's state and any branch of =
+code it might follow from there.  Stackless Python provides a way to =
+reference continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for =
+framing(a neat trick u should read about).  Writing microthreads is as =
+simple as defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same =
+time with a special call- they are executed in parralel within the same =
+thread and each requires almost no overhead above what they would if =
+executed in serial.  EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also plans to use =
+stackless as the basis for their game mechanics.  I dont have any =
+benchmarks on its network performance or scalability, but I plan to test =
+it soon.
+
+  Michael Warnock
+  In-Orbit Entertainment
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>oops:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is actually <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.stackless.com">http://www.stackless.com</A> =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here are more relavent =
+urls:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html">http://world.std.com/~w=
+ware/uthread.html</A><BR><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp">http://www.eve-online.c=
+om/faq/faq_08.asp</A><BR><A=20
+href=3D"http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/">http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/</A><BR=
+></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We hope to use the MIT exokernel the =
+last url=20
+refers to as a stripped down os for the servers.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Warnock</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In-Orbit Entertainment</DIV></FONT>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A href=3D"mailto:michael@in-orbit.net" =
+title=3Dmichael@in-orbit.net>Michael=20
+  Warnock</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
+href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org"=20
+  title=3Dnel@nevrax.org>nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 01, 2001 =
+2:38=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Nel] Network=20
+  Connections</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
+  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Windows did support something =
+called micro=20
+    threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&nbsp;=20
+    These ( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for =
+scalable IO=20
+    ( as in IIS ).&nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some =
+useful=20
+    results.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I come from a nix background, but I =
+wouldn't=20
+  doubt that windows also has had some implementation of =
+microthreads.&nbsp; The=20
+  best current way to use microthreads afaik is stackless python =
+(stackless.org)=20
+  which I (as the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server =
+side of=20
+  the game my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the =
+Nel=20
+  library.&nbsp; Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten =
+programming=20
+  concept called continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of =
+a=20
+  program from any given point- that includes it's state and any branch =
+of code=20
+  it might follow from there.&nbsp; Stackless Python provides a way to =
+reference=20
+  continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a =
+neat=20
+  trick u should read about).&nbsp; Writing microthreads is as simple as =
+
+  defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same time with a =
+special=20
+  call- they are executed in parralel within the same thread and each =
+requires=20
+  almost no overhead above what they would if executed in serial.&nbsp; =
+EVE (a=20
+  commercial mmorpg) also plans to use stackless as the basis for their =
+game=20
+  mechanics.&nbsp; I dont have any benchmarks on its network performance =
+or=20
+  scalability, but I plan to test it soon.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Warnock</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In-Orbit=20
+Entertainment</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0--
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Mar  2 12:50:59 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f22BowR40825
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:50:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20204;
+	Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:54:42 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f22BocS01581;
+	Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:50:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:50:37 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: nel@elwar.com
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compile error
+Message-ID: <20010302125037.A1498@nevrax.com>
+References: <200103010649.BAA01596@elwar.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <200103010649.BAA01596@elwar.com>; from nel@elwar.com on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 01:49:50AM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello, 
+
+nel@elwar.com wrote:
+>
+> [...]
+> /usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+> 
+> I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+
+Where did you installed NeL when you execute the command 'make install' ? 
+
+It's seems that the compiler is trying to get it from 
+'/home/nel/code/nel/include' and '/home/nel/code/nel/lib' but it seems
+that's the source (CVS) directory ... am i right ? :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Mar  2 14:23:37 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f22DNYR41460
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:23:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01571
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:27:35 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.0/8.9.3) id f22DNCc00411
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:23:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Resent-Message-Id: <200103021323.f22DNCc00411@gw.nevrax.com>
+Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:14:36 +0100
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: Brenden Towey <brenden@rcsis.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort...
+Message-ID: <20010302101436.A399@nevrax.com>
+References: <000c01c0a266$0af583c0$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <000c01c0a266$0af583c0$fd903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>; from brenden@rcsis.com on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 07:41:11AM -0800
+Resent-From: valignat@nevrax.com
+Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:22:21 +0100
+Resent-To: nel@nevrax.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Brenden Towey wrote:
+> 
+> Thanks so much!  Um, the #error in types_nl.h has this misspelled as
+> "www.sltport.org" (note that the "L" and the "T" are transposed).  It might
+> prevent future confusion if this was corrected.  I really wasn't kidding
+> when I said that Google had no idea what this was. :-)
+
+Rhhaaa, shame on me. I understood that you were killing but i didn't notice
+the mispelling, so i had some difficulties to understand the joke ... doh ! :o)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Fri Mar  2 17:05:30 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f22G5KR42734
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:05:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04855
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:09:12 +0100
+Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:09:12 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010302170912.B3263@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+Subject: [Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+We have made some screenshots internally, while checking various parts
+of the Snowballs sample game. After much debate, we've selecte a few
+that we think are pretty representative.
+
+Note that these shots are representative of the technology demo, and do
+not reflect our planned game or gameplay.
+
+You may find these 12 screenshots here:
+	http://www.nevrax.org/screenshots/
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com Fri Mar  2 19:15:04 2001
+Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f22IF3R43481
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:15:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com)
+Received: from tom ([62.253.44.4]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP
+          id <20010302181220.ODBT290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@tom>;
+          Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:12:20 +0000
+Message-ID: <000f01c0a343$e93d7830$042cfd3e@tom>
+From: "Tom wright" <thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:09:22 -0000
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Michael,
+
+yeah i have played about with python and read with interest the stackles =
+stuff.  Some neat technology. However as good as python is for rapid =
+developement it has one VERY serious drawback, and thats its speed.  Now =
+before i get flamed, I know stackless is a bit faster that normal 2.0 =
+python but its still REALLY REALLY slow compared to Java ( which is not =
+exactly a speed demon ) and of course c/c++.  Would u not be better =
+using your own custom language for inserver scripting that you can tweak =
+to the nth degree ??  Problem with embedding python is because its a =
+general purpose language you take all the speed compromises that that =
+entails, decisons made by some one else without knowledge in your =
+domain.  It takes more effort of course but could well yield better =
+results.  How about inventing a new language specifically for MMORGS :-)
+
+BTW i dont think the microthreads implementation on windows is the same =
+concept as python, they are simply light threads with less start =
+up/shutdown and context switching over head.  They dont have anything to =
+do with continuations ala python ( as far as i am aware ).
+
+However it sounds like the deployment platform is some custom unix box, =
+so its all academic :-) =20
+
+BTW2 Have you looked at ACE by Doug Schmidt at Washington Uni ??  That =
+would provide u with common comms layer on many unix and windows =
+platforms.  Its a nice piece of kit.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Michael,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>yeah i have played about with python =
+and read with=20
+interest the stackles stuff.&nbsp; Some neat technology. However as good =
+as=20
+python is for rapid developement it has one VERY serious drawback, and =
+thats its=20
+speed.&nbsp; Now before i get flamed, I know stackless is a bit faster =
+that=20
+normal 2.0 python but its still REALLY REALLY slow compared to Java ( =
+which is=20
+not exactly a speed demon ) and of course c/c++.&nbsp; Would u not be =
+better=20
+using your own custom language for inserver scripting that you can tweak =
+to the=20
+nth degree ??&nbsp; Problem with embedding python is because its a =
+general=20
+purpose language you take all the speed compromises that that entails, =
+decisons=20
+made by some one else without knowledge in your domain.&nbsp; It takes =
+more=20
+effort of course but could well yield better results.&nbsp; How about =
+inventing=20
+a new language specifically for MMORGS :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>BTW i dont think the microthreads =
+implementation on=20
+windows is the same concept as python, they are simply light threads =
+with less=20
+start up/shutdown and context switching over head.&nbsp; They dont have =
+anything=20
+to do with continuations ala python ( as far as i am aware =
+).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>However it sounds like the deployment =
+platform is=20
+some custom unix box, so its all academic :-)&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>BTW2 Have you looked at ACE by Doug =
+Schmidt at=20
+Washington Uni ??&nbsp; That would provide u with common comms layer on =
+many=20
+unix and windows platforms.&nbsp; Its a nice piece of kit.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0--
+
+
+From thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com Fri Mar  2 19:34:22 2001
+Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f22IYLR43585
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:34:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com)
+Received: from tom ([62.253.44.4]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP
+          id <20010302183143.IWRK281.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@tom>;
+          Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:31:43 +0000
+Message-ID: <000f01c0a346$9eddfb40$042cfd3e@tom>
+From: "Tom wright" <thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections 2
+Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:28:46 -0000
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A346.9E3D7580"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A346.9E3D7580
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi michael,
+
+i just looked at your URL's, very impressive graphics engine !!  I read =
+your FAQ, are you getting sufficient performance from your python then, =
+to scale well ??  How are you stopping your heap getting fragged to =
+death?  Are you using a python interpreter for each user ?
+
+Feel free to answer the none buisness sensitive questions :-)
+
+How are the nevrax lot finding python?
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A346.9E3D7580
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi michael,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i just looked at your URL's, very =
+impressive=20
+graphics engine !!&nbsp; I read your FAQ, are you getting sufficient =
+performance=20
+from your python then, to scale well ??&nbsp; How are you stopping your =
+heap=20
+getting fragged to death?&nbsp; Are you using a python interpreter for =
+each user=20
+?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Feel free to answer the none buisness =
+sensitive=20
+questions :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How are the nevrax lot finding =
+python?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A346.9E3D7580--
+
+
+From duponc@rpi.edu Fri Mar  2 20:22:52 2001
+Received: from mail.rpi.edu (root@mail.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f22JMpR43822
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:22:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from duponc@rpi.edu)
+Received: from rpi.edu (magneton-55.dynamic.rpi.edu [128.113.193.224])
+	by mail.rpi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA31554
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:20:13 -0500
+Message-ID: <3A9FF208.2010603@rpi.edu>
+Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:18:32 -0500
+From: Charles Dupont <duponc@rpi.edu>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+References: <000e01c0a22c$63ba5330$4f2dfd3e@tom> <003501c0a2a0$4ecb3060$9701a8c0@inorbit.org> <005501c0a2a9$1b465220$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+When you talk about network connections how are they going to work?  For 
+example when say a player wants to find out what he/she has in his 
+inivitroy how does the client get this information.  Does the client 
+talk deriectly to the items sever or does it first contact another 
+server, that it would contact for every data request, and which then 
+goes asks the items server for the information which the server passes 
+back to the client.  If it is the case that there is  a gateway server 
+that talks to the data servers not the client talks directly to the data 
+servers.  Why does there have to be a single gateway server.  You could 
+set it up so that the gateways only had to control the max amount of 
+connections the server can handel.  To do this you would need a another 
+server to handle incomming connections and pass them off to the gateway 
+servers.  Of course this system could bog down the intercluster network, 
+but you would think that the total amount of trafic would not change.  
+If it is the other way then this won't work. i.e. client talks directly  
+to items server.
+
+
+Charles Dupont
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Sat Mar  3 00:43:31 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f22NhVR45107
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:43:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
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+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010302234052.UZJA19148.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 15:40:52 -0800
+Message-ID: <004d01c0a371$e73647a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:38:36 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Screenshots
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I would like to post some of these screen shots up on my game's public =
+information site... May I?  Also, must the "NeL" logo appear in them?
+
+TIA.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I would like to post some of these screen shots up =
+on my=20
+game's public information site... May I?&nbsp; Also, must the "NeL" logo =
+appear=20
+in them?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>TIA.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60--
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Sat Mar  3 01:20:40 2001
+Received: from femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f230KdR45304
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 01:20:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
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+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP
+          id <20010303001801.WIOF19148.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx427786a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 16:18:01 -0800
+Message-ID: <005c01c0a377$1693e200$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:15:43 -0600
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Some misc questions
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL be released to the =
+public?
+2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, say... Python) that =
+will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for and uses?  =
+If so, what are they, and where can we get them?
+3) Is there anything in the works as far as "world creation =
+documentation" goes?  Such as "this is how you structure your data", and =
+"this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to work in =
+your game."?  Or will we need to just kinda figure it out ourselves... =
+:)
+4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered already... but when is the =
+projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?  (If there's any at =
+all)...
+
+TIA
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL =
+be=20
+released to the public?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, =
+say...=20
+Python) that will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for =
+and=20
+uses?&nbsp; If so, what are they, and where can we get =
+them?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>3) Is there anything in the works as far =
+as&nbsp;"world=20
+creation documentation" goes?&nbsp; Such as "this is how you structure =
+your=20
+data", and "this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to =
+work in=20
+your game."?&nbsp; Or will we need to just kinda figure it out =
+ourselves...=20
+:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered =
+already... but=20
+when is the projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?&nbsp; (If =
+there's=20
+any at all)...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>TIA</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640--
+
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Sat Mar  3 10:09:56 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f2399sR50501
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:09:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 27551 invoked by uid 1001); 3 Mar 2001 09:05:59 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010303090559.27550.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 01:05:59 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello again folks,
+
+First, I did read that whole message about 'data/', but I couldn't
+figure out what the fix was.  I admit my C++ skills are a lacking, but
+a patch would have been great.  It doesn't matter now, because I can't
+build the latest CVS.
+
+Up until today I couldn't build NeL at all due to library problems, I
+think.  When I finally got it to build the client wouldn't build.
+
+So currently I'm getting:
+
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::CMode::CMode(unsigned short, unsigned short, unsigned char, bool)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::CDriverUser::convMat(NL3D::UMaterial &)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D43(void)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver virtual table'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info node'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info function'
+
+... which looks to me like more of that interface rearrangement stuff,
+and I have no idea what to do about it.
+
+As someone who would very much like to help either with testing, or
+even coding, I'd like to request that developers make CVS log entries
+a little more verbose then 'grrrrr', 'added file' or 'BUG: makefile'.
+I know you guys know what you're doing, and I can usually get some
+idea of what's going on looking at the diffs, but if 'grrrr' was 'path
+change (3d/tmp)', and 'added file' mentioned the filename, and 'BUG:
+makefile' said 'BUG: added frustrum.ccp', it would make it a lot
+easier for me to get my bearings and tracedown whether errors are due
+to my build environment, or due to some SNAFU in France, or whatever.
+It would also make it less likely that I would need to look at the
+diff at all.
+
+I love the screenshots, and I can't wait to try this stuff out on my
+own machine.  
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From adam@papakane.com Mon Mar  5 01:22:43 2001
+Received: from antigonus.hosting.pacbell.net (antigonus.hosting.pacbell.net [216.100.98.13])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f250MfR61808
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 01:22:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from adam@papakane.com)
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+	by antigonus.hosting.pacbell.net
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+	[ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.7]
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010304153817.023d9830@smtp.papakane.com>
+X-Sender: adam%papakane.com@smtp.papakane.com
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:20:57 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: papakane <adam@papakane.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Subject: [Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've been trying to compile snowballs.exe for the past few days. I really 
+don't know C++ all that well and certainly don't know much about VisualC++ 
+so I have a feeling I may be over my head but I am dying to get involved in 
+this project and I would love to play snowballs.exe. So any help would be 
+greatly appreciated.
+
+I am using MS Visual C++ on Windows 2000, 3dfx voodoo3 and I am compiling a 
+current CVS version of the code base.
+
+I get the following compile time errors when I build nlnet_rd.lib
+
+--------------------Configuration: net - Win32 ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Compiling...
+new_message.cpp
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error 
+C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error 
+C2629: unexpected 'class NLNET::CNewMessage ('
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error 
+C2334: unexpected token(s) preceding ':'; skipping apparent function body
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error 
+C2146: syntax error : missing ',' before identifier 'id'
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error 
+C2061: syntax error : identifier 'id'
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error 
+C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error 
+C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '*'
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error 
+C2501: '_SIDA' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+nlnet_rd.lib - 8 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+I took the liberty of adding the following line to new_message.h
+#include "nel/misc/string_id_array.h"
+since that's where CStringArray is defined.  and got some more syntax 
+errors on line 71.
+
+line 71 reads:
+         void setType (const TStringId id)
+I made the following changes to get rid of the syntax errors. ( why? I 
+am  not really sure. it just seemed the right thing to do ;-) )
+         void setType (const NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id)
+
+and now I get the following error that I can't fix.
+
+C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(100) : error 
+C2662: 'getId' : cannot convert 'this' pointer from 'const class 
+NLMISC::CStringIdArray' to 'class NLMISC::CStringIdArray &'
+         Conversion loses qualifiers
+
+line 100 reads as follows :
+           NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id = _SIDA->getId (name);
+
+_SIDA is defined as follows
+
+private:
+	const NLMISC::CStringIdArray *_SIDA;
+
+Does any one have any idea what's wrong or even if I am on the right track?
+
+-Ishmael (and Adam)
+
+p.s. I compiled the version found in snowballs_src_0_2.zip downloaded from 
+nevrax.org. I got everything compiled but then when I load the game and 
+connect to the public server I get a white screen that stays white and the 
+game never loads.
+
+I decided to get the updated CVS version of the code base to see if it 
+works better.
+
+p.p.s. I was also getting compile time errors in the AI module (or is it 
+IA, the vcc workspace keeps calling it IA wihch is very confusing) but it 
+doesn't seem like snowballs uses the ai module. Is this correct?
+
+______________________________________________________
+Ga-ming-o (n): A collection of game programming examples for lingo.
+http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=8974 <-- bugbase
+http://www.gamingo.com   <-- homepage 	
+
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Mon Mar  5 10:21:33 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f259LWR64736
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:21:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc6 (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07024
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:25:31 +0100
+Message-ID: <001d01c0a555$5f8f3d80$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010303090559.27550.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries
+Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:19:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <robert@paradox.got.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:05 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries
+
+
+> Hello again folks,
+>
+> As someone who would very much like to help either with testing, or
+> even coding, I'd like to request that developers make CVS log entries
+> a little more verbose then 'grrrrr', 'added file' or 'BUG: makefile'.
+> I know you guys know what you're doing, and I can usually get some
+> idea of what's going on looking at the diffs, but if 'grrrr' was 'path
+> change (3d/tmp)', and 'added file' mentioned the filename, and 'BUG:
+
+
+Ok. I apologize. Actually, the files were moved 2 times, and I just realize
+that just the last log is valid.
+
+Sorry...
+
+
+Lionel Berenguier.
+---
+3d programmer / nevrax.com
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Mar  5 10:41:30 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f259fTR64850
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:41:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07406
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:45:29 +0100
+Message-ID: <002101c0a558$71ba3e30$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010304153817.023d9830@smtp.papakane.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h
+Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:41:24 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+In fact, new_message.cpp shouldn't be on the nel directory. so you could
+delete new_message.* and remove the file from the makefile or from the .dsp.
+I commit the modification but you must wait the night to get the fix.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "papakane" <adam@papakane.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:20 AM
+Subject: [Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h
+
+
+>
+> I've been trying to compile snowballs.exe for the past few days. I really
+> don't know C++ all that well and certainly don't know much about VisualC++
+> so I have a feeling I may be over my head but I am dying to get involved
+in
+> this project and I would love to play snowballs.exe. So any help would be
+> greatly appreciated.
+>
+> I am using MS Visual C++ on Windows 2000, 3dfx voodoo3 and I am compiling
+a
+> current CVS version of the code base.
+>
+> I get the following compile time errors when I build nlnet_rd.lib
+>
+> --------------------Configuration: net - Win32
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> Compiling...
+> new_message.cpp
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+> C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+> C2629: unexpected 'class NLNET::CNewMessage ('
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+> C2334: unexpected token(s) preceding ':'; skipping apparent function body
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error
+> C2146: syntax error : missing ',' before identifier 'id'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error
+> C2061: syntax error : identifier 'id'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+> C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+> C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '*'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+> C2501: '_SIDA' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+> Error executing cl.exe.
+>
+> nlnet_rd.lib - 8 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+>
+> I took the liberty of adding the following line to new_message.h
+> #include "nel/misc/string_id_array.h"
+> since that's where CStringArray is defined.  and got some more syntax
+> errors on line 71.
+>
+> line 71 reads:
+>          void setType (const TStringId id)
+> I made the following changes to get rid of the syntax errors. ( why? I
+> am  not really sure. it just seemed the right thing to do ;-) )
+>          void setType (const NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id)
+>
+> and now I get the following error that I can't fix.
+>
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(100) : error
+> C2662: 'getId' : cannot convert 'this' pointer from 'const class
+> NLMISC::CStringIdArray' to 'class NLMISC::CStringIdArray &'
+>          Conversion loses qualifiers
+>
+> line 100 reads as follows :
+>            NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id = _SIDA->getId (name);
+>
+> _SIDA is defined as follows
+>
+> private:
+> const NLMISC::CStringIdArray *_SIDA;
+>
+> Does any one have any idea what's wrong or even if I am on the right
+track?
+>
+> -Ishmael (and Adam)
+>
+> p.s. I compiled the version found in snowballs_src_0_2.zip downloaded from
+> nevrax.org. I got everything compiled but then when I load the game and
+> connect to the public server I get a white screen that stays white and the
+> game never loads.
+>
+> I decided to get the updated CVS version of the code base to see if it
+> works better.
+>
+> p.p.s. I was also getting compile time errors in the AI module (or is it
+> IA, the vcc workspace keeps calling it IA wihch is very confusing) but it
+> doesn't seem like snowballs uses the ai module. Is this correct?
+>
+> ______________________________________________________
+> Ga-ming-o (n): A collection of game programming examples for lingo.
+> http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=8974 <-- bugbase
+> http://www.gamingo.com   <-- homepage
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw Tue Mar  6 05:08:52 2001
+Received: from gameone.com.tw ([210.243.185.125])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2648ZV04711
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 05:08:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw)
+Received: from designer [211.21.241.68] by gameone.com.tw [210.243.185.125]
+	with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.0.0.R)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 12:05:10 +0800
+Message-ID: <001301c0a5f2$b6cc87e0$44f115d3@egameclub.com.tw>
+From: "jaleco" <jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:05:42 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Return-Path: jaleco@gameone.com.tw
+X-MDRcpt-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-MDRemoteIP: 211.21.241.68
+Subject: [Nel] newbies about packet schema
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I have read artice for winsock program,=20
+if folling article is true, that snow ball netowrk driver , should =
+change it's packet schema.
+any one can give me suggect ?
+
+original from =
+http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediate.html#d=
+isable-nagle
+Inexperienced Winsockers usually try disabling the Nagle algorithm when =
+they are trying to impose some kind of packet scheme on a TCP data =
+stream. That is, they want to be able to send, say, two packets, one 40 =
+bytes and the other 60, and have the receiver get a 40-byte packet =
+followed by a separate 60-byte packet. (With the Nagle algorithm =
+enabled, TCP will often coalesce these two packets into a single 100 =
+byte packet.) Unfortunately, this is futile, for the following reasons:
+
+  1.. Even if the sender manages to send its packets individually, the =
+receiving TCP/IP stack may still coalesce the received packets into a =
+single packet. This can happen any time the sender can send data faster =
+than the receiver can deal with it.=20
+  2.. Winsock Layered Service Providers (LSPs) may coalesce or fragment =
+stream data, especially LSPs that modify the data as it passes.=20
+  3.. Turning off the Nagle algorithm in a client program will not =
+affect the way that the server sends packets, and vice versa.=20
+  4.. Routers and other intermediaries on the network can fragment =
+packets, and there is no guarantee of "proper" reassembly with stream =
+protocols.=20
+  5.. If packet arrives that is larger than the available space in the =
+stack's buffers, it may fragment a packet, queuing up as many bytes as =
+it has buffer space for and discarding the rest. (The remote peer will =
+resend the remaining data later.)=20
+  6.. Winsock is not required to give you all the data it has queued on =
+a socket even if your recv() call gave Winsock enough buffer space. It =
+may require several calls to get all the data queued on a socket.=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have read artice for winsock program, =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>if folling article is true, that snow ball netowrk =
+driver ,=20
+should change it's packet schema.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>any one can give me suggect ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>original from <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=
+e.html#disable-nagle">http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winso=
+ck/intermediate.html#disable-nagle</A></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>
+<P>Inexperienced Winsockers usually try disabling the Nagle algorithm =
+when they=20
+are trying to impose some kind of <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=
+e.html#packetscheme">packet=20
+scheme</A> on a TCP data stream. That is, they want to be able to send, =
+say, two=20
+packets, one 40 bytes and the other 60, and have the receiver get a =
+40-byte=20
+packet followed by a separate 60-byte packet. (With the Nagle algorithm =
+enabled,=20
+TCP will often coalesce these two packets into a single 100 byte =
+packet.)=20
+Unfortunately, this is futile, for the following reasons:</P>
+<OL>
+  <LI>Even if the sender manages to send its packets individually, the =
+receiving=20
+  TCP/IP stack may still coalesce the received packets into a single =
+packet.=20
+  This can happen any time the sender can send data faster than the =
+receiver can=20
+  deal with it.=20
+  <LI>Winsock Layered Service Providers (LSPs) may coalesce or fragment =
+stream=20
+  data, especially LSPs that modify the data as it passes.=20
+  <LI>Turning off the Nagle algorithm in a client program will not =
+affect the=20
+  way that the server sends packets, and vice versa.=20
+  <LI>Routers and other intermediaries on the network can fragment =
+packets, and=20
+  there is no guarantee of "proper" reassembly with stream protocols.=20
+  <LI>If packet arrives that is larger than the available space in the =
+stack's=20
+  buffers, it may fragment a packet, queuing up as many bytes as it has =
+buffer=20
+  space for and discarding the rest. (The remote peer will resend the =
+remaining=20
+  data later.)=20
+  <LI>Winsock is not required to give you all the data it has queued on =
+a socket=20
+  even if your <CODE>recv()</CODE> call gave Winsock enough buffer =
+space. It may=20
+  require several calls to get all the data queued on a socket.=20
+</LI></OL></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920--
+
+
+
+From nel@elwar.com Tue Mar  6 05:32:33 2001
+Received: from elwar.com (user-24-214-39-133.knology.net [24.214.39.133])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f264WWV04841
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 05:32:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nel@elwar.com)
+Received: from elwar.com (IDENT:nel@elwar.com [127.0.0.1])
+	by elwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18737
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 00:39:40 -0500
+Message-Id: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:39:40 -0500
+From: nel@elwar.com
+Subject: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+After finally getting the client to compile and run I ran into the problem
+of the itsalive.nevrax.org site not being alive. So I figured I'd compile the
+server on my system. 
+First problem I had with the agent_service directory is it was searching for
+my Python.h file which I finally had to explicetly include the path in the
+Makefile. The final problem was that there's no compile.cpp in the agent_service
+directory and the Makefile is trying to create the compile.o
+I'll check out the .gz version to see if there's a compile.cpp in there.
+
+							Elwar
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Tue Mar  6 07:25:12 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f266PAV05375
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:25:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur ([207.44.176.190])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f266K4909650
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:20:04 -0800
+Message-ID: <001201c0a605$d89cb5d0$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:22:40 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The agent service isnt necessary to run the server.  You only needed the
+naming service, log service, login service and moves service until
+yesterday- now u have to run the time service too, which hasn't been running
+well for me in the last few weeks, however, an older copy of it works just
+fine.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+No matter where you go, &this.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 10:35:33 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f269ZXV06291
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:39:38 +0100
+Message-ID: <002701c0a620$c979a250$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com> <001201c0a605$d89cb5d0$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:35:31 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Michael,
+
+> yesterday- now u have to run the time service too, which hasn't been
+running
+> well for me in the last few weeks, however, an older copy of it works just
+
+Could you, please, explain me what is the problem about the time service?
+Here, it seems to work fine on windows 2000 and on redhat 7 linux.
+
+Vianney
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 15:28:25 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26ESDV07809
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:28:17 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:25:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:25:23 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Message-ID: <20010306152522.A42773@nevrax.com>
+References: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com>; from nel@elwar.com on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 12:39:40AM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+nel@elwar.com wrote:
+> 
+> After finally getting the client to compile and run I ran into the problem
+> of the itsalive.nevrax.org site not being alive. So I figured I'd compile the
+> server on my system. 
+
+Sorry about that, itsalive die miserably due to a ventilator problem :-(
+
+This was fixed and it's runnig now ...
+
+> First problem I had with the agent_service directory is it was searching for
+> my Python.h file which I finally had to explicetly include the path in the
+> Makefile.
+
+Ouch ... we will fix that ...
+
+Tha agent service is not used at all at the momment, it's under heavy
+development ... you can skip it.
+
+> The final problem was that there's no compile.cpp in the agent_service
+> directory and the Makefile is trying to create the compile.o
+> I'll check out the .gz version to see if there's a compile.cpp in there.
+
+This was fixed yesterday.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 15:33:01 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26EWwV07849
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:32:59 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:30:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:30:14 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries
+Message-ID: <20010306153014.B71714@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010303090559.27550.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010303090559.27550.qmail@paradox.got.net>; from robert@paradox.got.net on Sat, Mar 03, 2001 at 01:05:59AM -0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> 
+> First, I did read that whole message about 'data/', but I couldn't
+> figure out what the fix was.  I admit my C++ skills are a lacking, but
+> a patch would have been great.  It doesn't matter now, because I can't
+> build the latest CVS.
+
+I'm going to take a look on it ...
+
+
+> [...]
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info function'
+>
+> ... which looks to me like more of that interface rearrangement stuff,
+> and I have no idea what to do about it.
+
+This is fixed in the last CVS files. Update your CVS and it should work :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 15:42:55 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26EgsV07922
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:46:59 +0100
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:46:59 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Message-ID: <20010306154659.R13778@nevrax.com>
+References: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com> <20010306152522.A42773@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <20010306152522.A42773@nevrax.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Cedric Valignat:
+> Sorry about that, itsalive die miserably due to a ventilator problem :-(
+
+When your CPU fan decide it's time to take a vacation, the CPU doesn't
+like working without clim anymore than you. :)
+
+> > The final problem was that there's no compile.cpp in the agent_service
+> > directory and the Makefile is trying to create the compile.o
+> > I'll check out the .gz version to see if there's a compile.cpp in there.
+> 
+> This was fixed yesterday.
+
+That happens when someone adds a new file to the compilation process,
+but forgets a "cvs add" :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Mar  6 15:58:33 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26EwIV08015
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:58:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+Message-ID: <3AA4FA03.A7FF4FAE@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:53:55 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+
+(I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 16:07:48 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26F7mV08084
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:05:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:05:06 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Message-ID: <20010306160505.A51081@nevrax.com>
+References: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com> <20010306152522.A42773@nevrax.com> <20010306154659.R13778@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010306154659.R13778@nevrax.com>; from archer@nevrax.com on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 03:46:59PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vincent Archer wrote:
+> 
+> That happens when someone adds a new file to the compilation process,
+> but forgets a "cvs add" :)
+
+Atually, it was, more or less, the other way around. The compile.cpp file
+was removed from the CVS, and it wasn't removed in the Makefile.am file :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 16:20:03 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26FK3V08177
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23189
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:24:08 +0100
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:24:08 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Screenshots
+Message-ID: <20010306162408.W13778@nevrax.com>
+References: <004d01c0a371$e73647a0$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Jared Mark:
+> I would like to post some of these screen shots up on my game's public information site... May I?  Also, must the "NeL" logo appear in them?
+
+Sorry to have taken so long to reply.
+
+Of course, you may post these screenshots to any web site you like,
+provided you keep the NeL logo pictured on them.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 16:35:51 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26FZnV08266
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:39:52 +0100
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:39:52 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Some misc questions
+Message-ID: <20010306163951.X13778@nevrax.com>
+References: <005c01c0a377$1693e200$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Jared Mark:
+> 1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL be released to the public?
+
+Right now, we have no update yet. It's still mostly a matter of license,
+and we do want to be sure before we release (once the horse leaves the barn,
+you can't close the door anymore).
+
+No ETA. Alas.
+
+> 2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, say... Python) that will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for and uses?  If so, what are they, and where can we get them?
+
+So far, we need only STLports, Freetype, and Python. Which should be
+mentioned in the Readme for compilation, including the correct URLs
+(except when we swap t & l around for the STLport.org domain, that is)
+
+> 3) Is there anything in the works as far as "world creation documentation" goes?  Such as "this is how you structure your data", and "this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to work in your game."?  Or will we need to just kinda figure it out ourselves... :)
+
+Good question. I'm not even sure we really know ourselves (just kidding).
+That's something in the work, because oral tradition isn't enough even here.
+
+> 4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered already... but when is the projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?  (If there's any at all)...
+
+We do hope to have our game up in beta at the end of the year, so we
+expect to have the library stable and fully functional at about the same
+time. Whether or not we'll stamp it 1.0 before full debug, or when we go
+beta is another debate :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 17:44:21 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26GiIV08676
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:41:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:41:33 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS
+Message-ID: <20010306174133.A96405@nevrax.com>
+References: <3AA4FA03.A7FF4FAE@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3AA4FA03.A7FF4FAE@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 03:53:55PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+> driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+> 
+> (I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+
+I tryed to reproduce your error with the files present in the public
+repository, but it was without any success.
+
+I update the public CVS repository more or less at the same time that
+you've done the update, so could you try to update it again to check
+out if the error is not coming from our public repository
+synchronization ?
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Tue Mar  6 17:48:43 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26GmeV08737
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:52:43 +0100
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:52:43 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS
+Message-ID: <20010306175243.E13778@nevrax.com>
+References: <3AA4FA03.A7FF4FAE@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Vincent Caron:
+> In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+> driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+> 
+> (I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+
+This is strange, since the repository has the viewport.h file,
+as shown on CVSweb:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/include/nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h
+
+(and yes, I know people hate the 'grrrr' comments :) )
+
+Are you sure the cvs update went correctly?
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Mar  6 18:01:01 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-2-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26H10V08853
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+Message-ID: <3AA516D1.F90B854B@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:56:49 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i686)
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+Subject: Re: [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS
+References: <3AA4FA03.A7FF4FAE@zerodeux.net> <20010306174133.A96405@nevrax.com>
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> 
+> I update the public CVS repository more or less at the same time that
+> you've done the update, so could you try to update it again to check
+> out if the error is not coming from our public repository
+> synchronization ?
+
+My fault, I have a pb with cvs ignoring my ~/.cvsrc file, thus I didn't
+get the new tmp/ folder in '3d'.
+
+From kduda@there.com Tue Mar  6 18:24:23 2001
+Received: from alwaysthere.there.com ([216.73.68.226])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26HOLV08979
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:24:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from kduda@there.com)
+Received: from kduda-laptop.there.com (kduda-laptop [10.10.11.11])
+	by alwaysthere.there.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19789
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:21:37 -0800
+Received: (from kduda@localhost)
+	by kduda-laptop.there.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id CAA04265;
+	Sat, 3 Mar 2001 02:02:34 -0800
+Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 02:02:34 -0800
+Message-Id: <200103031002.CAA04265@kduda-laptop.there.com>
+From: Kenneth Duda <kjd@cs.stanford.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-reply-to: <001301c0a5f2$b6cc87e0$44f115d3@egameclub.com.tw>
+	(jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] newbies about packet schema
+References:  <001301c0a5f2$b6cc87e0$44f115d3@egameclub.com.tw>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I have read artice for winsock program, if folling article is
+> true, that snow ball netowrk driver , should change it's packet
+> schema.  any one can give me suggect ?
+
+I am not familiar with the snowball protocol ("packet schema").
+However, I assure you that the article is correct --- attempting
+to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced message stream by
+disabling Nagle will not work.  The only way to implement message
+semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization to the
+byte stream.  For example,
+
+
+  void SendMessage( int socket, const void * buf, size_t length ) 
+  {
+    long l = htonl( length );
+    write( socket, &l, 4 );
+    write( socket, buf, length );
+  }
+
+  void RecvMessage( int socket, void * buf, size_t * length ) 
+  {
+    long l;
+    read( socket, &l, 4 );
+    l = ntohl( l );
+    assert( l < *length );
+    *length = l;
+    read( socket, buf, length );
+  }
+
+
+-Ken
+
+Kenneth J. Duda
+Stanford University Distributed Systems Group
+<kjd@cs.stanford.edu>
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Tue Mar  6 20:45:00 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f26JivV09672
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:44:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur ([207.44.176.190])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f26Jdn501384
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:39:49 -0800
+Message-ID: <000d01c0a675$9627a960$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com> <001201c0a605$d89cb5d0$9701a8c0@inorbit.org> <002701c0a620$c979a250$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:42:32 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Could you, please, explain me what is the problem about the time service?
+> Here, it seems to work fine on windows 2000 and on redhat 7 linux.
+>
+> Vianney
+
+I'm running win2k on an AMD Athlon (750 chipset m/b)
+here is the log of starting the time service:
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS got port
+51001
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Local server time:
+1430727ms, universal time: 4986ms
+
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Service ready
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS-129
+registered at baldur.in-orbit.org/51001
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 ERR baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Unknown external
+exception
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Service stopped
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:39 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS-129
+unregistered at baldur.in-orbit.org/51001
+
+when i try to compile the debug version i get this:
+time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+__thiscall NLNET::CMessage::CMessage(class _STLD::basic_string<char,class
+_STLD::char_traits<char>,class _STLD::allocator<char> >,bool,unsigned
+__int32)" (??0CMessage@NLNET@@QAE@V
+?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STLD@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STLD@@_N_I@Z)
+time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: class
+_STLD::basic_string<char,class _STLD::char_traits<char>,class
+_STLD::allocator<char> > const & __thiscall
+NLNET::CInetAddress::hostName(void)const " (?hostName@CInetAddress@
+NLNET@@QBEABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STLD@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STLD
+@@XZ)
+nlnet_debug.lib(service.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+"public: virtual void __thiscall NLMISC::CStdDisplayer::display(long,enum
+NLMISC::CLog::TLogType,class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocat
+or<char> > const &,char const *,int,char const *)"
+(?display@CStdDisplayer@NLMISC@@UAEXJW4TLogType@CLog@2@ABV?$basic_string@DV?
+$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@PBDH2@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(service.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+"public: static void __cdecl NLMISC::CLog::setProcessName(class
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > const &)" (?setProcessName@C
+Log@NLMISC@@SAXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_
+STL@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol "public: class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocator<char> > const & __thiscall
+NLMISC::CConfigFile::CVar::asString(int)const " (?as
+String@CVar@CConfigFile@NLMISC@@QBEABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@
+@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@H@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol "public: struct NLMISC::CConfigFile::CVar & __thiscall
+NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocator<char>
+ > const &)"
+(?getVar@CConfigFile@NLMISC@@QAEAAUCVar@12@ABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits
+@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol "public: void __thiscall NLMISC::CConfigFile::load(class
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > const &)" (?load@CConfigFile@
+NLMISC@@QAEXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL
+@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(net_log.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+"protected: static class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocator<char> >
+NLMISC::CLog::_ProcessName" (?_ProcessName@CLog@NLMISC@@1V?$basic_
+string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@A)
+Debug/time_service.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 8 unresolved externals
+
+Michael
+No matter where you go, &this.
+
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Wed Mar  7 05:03:55 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f2743rV12693
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:03:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 13432 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Mar 2001 03:59:47 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010307035947.13431.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:59:47 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] still having data/ problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello again,
+
+I finally got NeL and 'client' to build after all SORTS of library
+problems and all the confusion with 3d/tmp.  Once again I got through
+the login process, selected 'itsalive', and the client went away.  The
+log file contains the familiar entry:
+
+ERR: Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)
+
+I have to assume this is a Debian/GNU Linux problem because the other
+guy who had this problem (Leighton Haynes) said he was on a Debian box
+and because it all seems to work on RedHat.  Perhaps it's a libc
+thing?  I'm using the latest of everything (unstable Debian).
+
+Leighton, please post your patch if you have it readily available, or
+send me copies of whatever files you modified and I'll generate
+patches and post them.
+
+Actually, I notice you also mentioned having a GeForce, like me, so
+that could be related.  Perhaps some interaction between the nVidia
+libraries and Debian or something...
+
+If anyone else has any ideas or questions, I'd love to hear them.
+
+I can't wait to catch up so I can start helping. :)
+
+Thanks,
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From nel@elwar.com Wed Mar  7 05:12:16 2001
+Received: from elwar.com (user-24-214-39-133.knology.net [24.214.39.133])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f274CFV12753
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:12:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nel@elwar.com)
+Received: from elwar.com (IDENT:nel@elwar.com [127.0.0.1])
+	by elwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30172
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:19:27 -0500
+Message-Id: <200103070519.AAA30172@elwar.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:19:27 -0500
+From: nel@elwar.com
+Subject: [Nel] client trouble
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Ok, finally I got the client to actually start and ask for my login and
+such. I connected to itsalive.nevrax.org because I guess I have no shards
+available when I run the server. But after I choose the shard at nevrax I get:
+
+01/03/06 22:58:19 INF: Connecting to the shard...
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 open (TCP)
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 connected to 195.68.21.196/50010
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 is at 192.168.1.2/2060
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 sent message AUT (21 bytes +10)
+01/03/06 22:58:19 INF: Loading data...
+01/03/06 22:58:21 ERR: Error in the client: Read error in file './data/' (End of
+ file??)
+01/03/06 22:58:21 DBG: P1: Socket 5 closed at 192.168.1.2/2060
+
+in the client.log file, and it crashes. I'll do some more bug testing to track
+down the exact file it's having trouble with but I just thought I'd see if
+I'm missing something here. 
+
+							Elwar
+
+From nel@elwar.com Wed Mar  7 05:15:08 2001
+Received: from elwar.com (user-24-214-39-133.knology.net [24.214.39.133])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f274F7V12779
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:15:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nel@elwar.com)
+Received: from elwar.com (IDENT:nel@elwar.com [127.0.0.1])
+	by elwar.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30188
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:22:18 -0500
+Message-Id: <200103070522.AAA30188@elwar.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:22:18 -0500
+From: nel@elwar.com
+Subject: [Nel] client trouble
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I guess we both sent that last mail at the same time.
+
+I'm running RedHat 6.2 myself so it might not just be a Debian thing.
+
+
+						Elwar
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Wed Mar  7 05:26:24 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f274QNV12861
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:26:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 14378 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Mar 2001 04:22:23 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010307042223.14377.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+Subject: Re: [Nel] still having data/ problem
+In-Reply-To: <20010307035947.13431.qmail@paradox.got.net> "from robert@paradox.got.net
+ at Mar 6, 2001 07:59:47 pm"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:22:23 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I have to assume this is a Debian/GNU Linux problem because the other
+> guy who had this problem (Leighton Haynes) said he was on a Debian box
+> and because it all seems to work on RedHat.  Perhaps it's a libc
+> thing?  I'm using the latest of everything (unstable Debian).
+
+I noticed that the version of STLport that is called for is 4.0, but
+the version that is packaged for Debian is 4.1.  I'm going to purge my
+4.1 libraries and build 4.0 to see if that fixes it.
+
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Wed Mar  7 07:15:53 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f276FqV13408
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:15:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 18655 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Mar 2001 06:11:51 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010307061151.18654.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+Subject: Re: [Nel] still having data/ problem
+In-Reply-To: <20010307042223.14377.qmail@paradox.got.net> "from robert@paradox.got.net
+ at Mar 6, 2001 08:22:23 pm"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:11:51 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I noticed that the version of STLport that is called for is 4.0, but
+> the version that is packaged for Debian is 4.1.  I'm going to purge my
+> 4.1 libraries and build 4.0 to see if that fixes it.
+
+I tried it, and it didn't help any.
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Wed Mar  7 07:34:42 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f276YeV13540
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:34:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 19394 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Mar 2001 06:30:40 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010307063039.19393.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:30:39 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] segv if I press alt?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello again!
+
+I was trying to debug the 'Read error' message, and while switching
+between desktops by pressing "Alt-F1" I generated a segmentation fault
+before I hit the F1 key.  It's extremely easy to duplicate and here's
+the traceback:
+
+(gdb) run
+Starting program: /usr/local/bin/client 
+
+Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+NLMISC::CBitSet::set (this=0x80a09c4, bitNumber=134875400, value=true) at bit_set.cpp:111
+111                     Array[bitNumber / BITLEN]|= mask ;
+(gdb) bt  
+#0  NLMISC::CBitSet::set (this=0x80a09c4, bitNumber=134875400, value=true) at bit_set.cpp:111
+#1  0x400b9c88 in NLMISC::CEventListenerAsync::operator() (this=0x80a09c0, event=@0x82910c8) at event_listener.cpp:91
+#2  0x400ba0f9 in NLMISC::CEventServer::pumpEvent (this=0x80a0940, event=0x82910c8) at event_server.cpp:89
+#3  0x400ba047 in NLMISC::CEventServer::pump (this=0x80a0940) at event_server.cpp:67
+#4  0x807486f in CLanguageInterface::choose (this=0xbffff39c) at language_interface.cpp:141
+#5  0x806fd4e in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffff644) at client.cpp:3078
+#6  0x4040ec14 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/i686/libc.so.6
+(gdb) 
+
+I'm hesitant to file any bugs until I know my development environment
+is up to spec and I don't have any problems with wrong library
+versions and such.
+
+If someone can confirm that this is a bug in a working client, they or
+I can file a bug, otherwise I'll chalk it up to being something on my
+end.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au Wed Mar  7 07:52:50 2001
+Received: from ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (mooneye.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au [130.95.13.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f276qjV13726
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:52:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au)
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+Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:50:02 +0800
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] segv if I press alt?
+Message-ID: <20010307145002.G351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+References: <20010307063039.19393.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.4i
+In-Reply-To: <20010307063039.19393.qmail@paradox.got.net>; from robert@paradox.got.net on Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 10:30:39PM -0800
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 10:30:39PM -0800, robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> Hello again!
+> 
+> I was trying to debug the 'Read error' message, and while switching
+> between desktops by pressing "Alt-F1" I generated a segmentation fault
+> before I hit the F1 key.  It's extremely easy to duplicate and here's
+> the traceback:
+> 
+> I'm hesitant to file any bugs until I know my development environment
+> is up to spec and I don't have any problems with wrong library
+> versions and such.
+> 
+> If someone can confirm that this is a bug in a working client, they or
+> I can file a bug, otherwise I'll chalk it up to being something on my
+> end.
+> 
+I've noticed this bug. The code that translates X Keypress
+events seems to be broken. I haven't looked at it in detail yet.
+Basically, the code expects to convert all keypresses to a number
+between 0 and 255(?) and then shoves the flag into an array.
+The alt key is getting converted into a number greater than 255
+so it generates a segfault when it tries to set the array value
+for that key.
+
+It's on my list of things to take a look at when I get time ;)
+
+On another topic, I'll post my workaround for the loading "data/" 
+bug thingie to the list sometime tonight. We still need to work out
+_why_ it's trying to load this though. The 'fix' will make it work,
+but doesn't really fix anything.
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Wed Mar  7 08:28:26 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f277SPV13936
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:28:25 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <20010307072424.21541.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+Subject: Re: [Nel] segv if I press alt?
+In-Reply-To: <20010307145002.G351302@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+ "from Leighton Haynes at Mar 7, 2001 02:50:02 pm"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:24:24 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> The alt key is getting converted into a number greater than 255
+> so it generates a segfault when it tries to set the array value
+> for that key.
+> 
+> It's on my list of things to take a look at when I get time ;)
+
+Heh, I've got a lot of those lists.
+
+Should I file a bug report then?
+
+> On another topic, I'll post my workaround for the loading "data/" 
+> bug thingie to the list sometime tonight. We still need to work out
+> _why_ it's trying to load this though. The 'fix' will make it work,
+> but doesn't really fix anything.
+
+That would be great.  Right now I've got a break point at File.cpp:93
+where the throw EReadError appears, and I'm going to keep trying to
+figure it out on my own until I hear from you. :)
+
+Once I figure this out I should be able to start exploring the system
+and see where I can best apply my skills.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Wed Mar  7 10:37:38 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f279bZV14737
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:37:35 +0100 (CET)
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+Received: (qmail 26413 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Mar 2001 09:33:34 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010307093334.26412.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 01:33:34 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thanks to Leighton's advice I was able to get running.  Here's the
+patch I used:
+
+$ cvs diff landscape.cpp
+Index: landscape.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.48
+diff -u -r1.48 landscape.cpp
+--- landscape.cpp       2001/02/28 14:28:57     1.48
++++ landscape.cpp       2001/03/07 09:35:52
+@@ -741,16 +741,21 @@
+        // Fill rdrpass.
+        CPatchRdrPass   pass;
+        // The diffuse part for a tile is inevitable.
+-       if(tile)
+-               pass.TextureDiffuse= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+tile->getRelativeFileName(CTile::diffuse));
+-       else
++       if(tile) {
++               textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::diffuse);
++               if(textName!="")
++                       pass.TextureDiffuse= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
++       } else {
+                pass.TextureDiffuse= new CTextureCross;
++        }
+        if(tile)
+        {
+                textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::alpha);
+                if(textName!="")
+                        pass.TextureAlpha= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+-       }
++       } else {
++                pass.TextureAlpha= new CTextureCross;
++        }
+ 
+ 
+        // Fill tileInfo.
+
+As he said, this is not an actuall fix, merely a way to cover up the
+problem.  This will probably make sense to someone there and in the
+mean time I can learn about the rest of this system.
+
+Woo hoo!
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Wed Mar  7 12:01:28 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f27B1RV15267
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:01:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06787
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:05:31 +0100
+Message-ID: <001f01c0a6f5$a9b9d360$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010307093334.26412.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used
+Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:59:21 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <robert@paradox.got.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:33 AM
+Subject: [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used
+
+
+> Thanks to Leighton's advice I was able to get running.  Here's the
+> patch I used:
+>
+> $ cvs diff landscape.cpp
+> Index: landscape.cpp
+> ===================================================================
+> RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp,v
+> retrieving revision 1.48
+> diff -u -r1.48 landscape.cpp
+> --- landscape.cpp       2001/02/28 14:28:57     1.48
+> +++ landscape.cpp       2001/03/07 09:35:52
+> @@ -741,16 +741,21 @@
+>         // Fill rdrpass.
+>         CPatchRdrPass   pass;
+>         // The diffuse part for a tile is inevitable.
+> -       if(tile)
+> -               pass.TextureDiffuse=
+findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+tile->getRelativeFileName(CTile::diffu
+se));
+> -       else
+> +       if(tile) {
+> +               textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::diffuse);
+> +               if(textName!="")
+> +                       pass.TextureDiffuse=
+findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+> +       } else {
+>                 pass.TextureDiffuse= new CTextureCross;
+> +        }
+
+
+Actually, If CTextureFile::generate() do not find the file, it should do the
+work of creating a dummy texture for you.
+
+I think, the bug is CTextureFile::generate() try to load a "data/" (a
+directory) which may crash on linux ??
+
+
+>         if(tile)
+>         {
+>                 textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::alpha);
+>                 if(textName!="")
+>                         pass.TextureAlpha=
+findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+> -       }
+> +       } else {
+> +                pass.TextureAlpha= new CTextureCross;
+> +        }
+
+
+This patch is wrong, because a NULL TextureAlpha is possible, and should not
+crash.
+
+
+I'll correct this.
+
+
+
+Lionel Berenguier.
+---
+3d programmer / nevrax.com
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Mar  7 14:05:51 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f27D5pV15957
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:05:51 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:09:54 +0100
+Message-ID: <002701c0a707$5638da30$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200103060539.AAA18737@elwar.com> <001201c0a605$d89cb5d0$9701a8c0@inorbit.org> <002701c0a620$c979a250$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <000d01c0a675$9627a960$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compile.cpp
+Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:05:51 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+> LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 ERR baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Unknown external
+exception
+
+Not easy to know what s happen, it should be easier to know the problem if
+you compile the time service and NeL
+in the debug mode and run it in the visual debugger. We are not able to
+reproduce this problem here :-(
+
+> when i try to compile the debug version i get this:
+> time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+
+In all NeL project settings (3d, ia, net, misc, client, services, and so on)
+you must have __STL_DEBUG defined in the debug mode.
+Please verify if they all contains this define and if not, add it!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Mar  7 14:25:17 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f27DPGV16080
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:25:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:29:20 +0100
+Message-ID: <004501c0a70a$0cdd38b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010307093334.26412.qmail@paradox.got.net> <001f01c0a6f5$a9b9d360$0601a8c0@nevrax.net>
+Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:25:17 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] 'data/' bug
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi there!
+
+We, at last, understood the problem of the 'data/' bug on linux.
+In fact, in our rawdatafiles, there are some empty file names and in our
+program, we try to find where these files are located.
+For that, we use a function (CPath::lookup()) that tries to find the file in
+all directories provided before by the user.
+To know if a file exists, we try to open it and if the opening success, we
+return true (CFile::fileExists()).
+When the prog tries to find the file "", first it calls fileExists("") that
+returns false.
+Next step, it tries with the first directory in his list,
+fileExists("data/"+""); On windows, the OS can't open the directory
+("data/")
+so it returns false. On linux, it can, so it returns true and the program
+tries to read the directory as if it was
+a texture, and of course, it fails (end of file).
+
+We fixed the problem by adding this next line in the top of the function
+string CPath::lookup( const string& filename ) in path.cpp:
+
+ if(filename.empty())
+  throw EPathNotFound( filename );
+
+Of course, we put it on cvs and it will be synchronized this night (GMT+1).
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw Thu Mar  8 03:06:35 2001
+Received: from gameone.com.tw ([210.243.185.125])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2826HV20786
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 03:06:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw)
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+	with SMTP (MDaemon.v3.0.0.R)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 10:02:13 +0800
+Message-ID: <000d01c0a773$df050660$44f115d3@egameclub.com.tw>
+From: "jaleco" <jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:02:46 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720"
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
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+X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Return-Path: jaleco@gameone.com.tw
+X-MDRcpt-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-MDRemoteIP: 211.21.241.68
+Subject: [Nel] newbies about packet schema
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+>I am not familiar with the snowball protocol ("packet schema").
+>However, I assure you that the article is correct --- attempting
+>to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced message stream by
+>disabling Nagle will not work.  The only way to implement message
+>semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization to the
+>byte stream.  For example,
+
+thanks .
+but snowball seem  have  no any packet schema , just disable Nagle .
+snowball assume send 50 byte , it will receive 50 byte once.
+if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte twice,if it happen,snow ball is =
+die.
+does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n byte by =
+more than one recive ) ?
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>&gt;I am not familiar with the =
+snowball protocol=20
+("packet schema").<BR>&gt;However, I assure you that the article is =
+correct ---=20
+attempting<BR>&gt;to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced =
+message stream=20
+by<BR>&gt;disabling Nagle will not work.&nbsp; The only way to implement =
+
+message<BR>&gt;semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization =
+to=20
+the<BR>&gt;byte stream.&nbsp; For example,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>thanks .</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>but snowball seem&nbsp; have&nbsp; no =
+any packet=20
+schema , just disable Nagle .</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>snowball assume send 50 byte , it =
+will receive 50=20
+byte once.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte =
+twice,if it=20
+happen,snow ball is die.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n =
+byte by=20
+more than one recive ) ?</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720--
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Thu Mar  8 11:21:35 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f28ALZV23229
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+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27620
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:37 +0100
+Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:37 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] newbies about packet schema
+Message-ID: <20010308112537.N25591@nevrax.com>
+References: <000d01c0a773$df050660$44f115d3@egameclub.com.tw>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <000d01c0a773$df050660$44f115d3@egameclub.com.tw>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to jaleco:
+> thanks .
+> but snowball seem  have  no any packet schema , just disable Nagle .
+> snowball assume send 50 byte , it will receive 50 byte once.
+> if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte twice,if it happen,snow ball is die.
+> does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n byte by more than one recive ) ?
+
+That's why we're redoing the low-level network stuff :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From antoine.hahusseau1@libertysurf.fr Thu Mar  8 19:46:37 2001
+Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f28IkbV25864
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:46:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from antoine.hahusseau1@libertysurf.fr)
+Received: from libertysurf.fr (213.36.12.2) by mail.libertysurf.net (5.1.053)
+        id 3AA3CA0C000704F4 for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:43:52 +0100
+Message-ID: <3AA7D45D.5373AFDB@libertysurf.fr>
+Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 19:50:05 +0100
+From: Antoine Hahusseau <antoine.hahusseau1@libertysurf.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] problem when running snowball with win98
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+i finaly managed to compile it ! with visual C++ v 6
+
+- you should REALLY tell in the download page that we have to download
+first stlport and freetype ...
+
+but, forget this point, after compilation i get
+
+- snowball.exe, stlxxx dll and nel_openglxxx dll
+i put all of them in the same directory and also the data subdirectory.
+
+and when i launch snowball : i get
+
+error cannot found nel_openglxxx dll
+(135272 octets by the way since i did not mess with the original
+settings)
+
+but this dll is in the same directory as the exe : so what's wrong ?
+
+maybe my graphic card is not enough compliant with the opengl (its a
+voodoo 3, please don't laugh) ?
+
+does someone encoutered  the same problem,
+does someone managed to play snowball with a voodoo ?
+
+help will be appreciated !
+thanks
+
+
+From return@trafficmagnet.net Sun Mar 11 21:15:14 2001
+Received: from ns2.trafficmagnet.net (IDENT:root@[202.108.223.8])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2BKF3V50093
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:15:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from return@trafficmagnet.net)
+Received: from christine ([202.108.221.168])
+	by ns2.trafficmagnet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA24422
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:17:54 +0800
+Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:17:54 +0800
+Message-Id: <200103090017.IAA24422@ns2.trafficmagnet.net>
+From: Christine Hall<return@trafficmagnet.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
+<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
+<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=#ffffff><img src="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+" width=1 height=1 border=0><FONT face=Arial size=2>
+<P>Hello,<BR></P>
+<P>I visited 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> and I 
+noticed that you are not listed on some search engines. I am sure you can 
+increase the number of people who visit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A>. Do you know TrafficMagnet? TrafficMagnet is a unique technology that automatically submits your 
+web site to over 300,000+ search engines and directories every month. This is a 
+very low-cost and effective way of advertising your site. </P>
+<P>To check our prices and submit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> to 
+300,000+ search engines, go to <a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">TrafficMagnet.net</A></P>
+<P>I would love to hear from you. </P>
+<P>Best Regards,<BR>Christine Hall<BR>Sales &amp; Marketing<BR><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">www.TrafficMagnet.net</A> 
+<STYLE type=text/css>.button {
+	BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc0000; COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-WEIGHT: bold
+}
+</STYLE>
+</P>
+<P>
+<TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 width=507>
+  <TBODY>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif" 
+      width=59></A></TD>
+    <TD width=253>
+      <TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0>
+        <TBODY>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=21><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg" 
+            width=21></A></TD>
+          <TD height=24 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=24 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=22><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg" 
+            width=22></A></TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD>
+<A Href = http://www.nevrax.org><IMG Src = http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg Border=0 width="210" height="141"></A>
+</A>
+          </TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=25 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=25 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
+    <TD width=239><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=175 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif" 
+      width=239></A></TD></TR>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=48 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59>&nbsp;</TD>
+    <TD align=middle vAlign=bottom width=253>
+	<a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif"></A>
+    </TD>
+    <TD align=right vAlign=bottom 
+width=239>&nbsp;</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Mon Mar 12 17:57:15 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiternew.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2CGvEX00300
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:57:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from ZAGER ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15346
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:59 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:58 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <58250011105.20010312175358@teleaction.de>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Data format ?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello to all !
+I   have   some ideas  related to creation and storing of
+game's world data -
+I think,  it's technically possible to store all descriptions of game world
+in  XML  format. I just recall what in past days I have used DXF file
+format   to   interchange  my data between various CAD applications. By
+using of XML, I think, we can implement the same functionality
+as  with  DXF plus additional attributes which we need (i.e. textures,
+sounds,  etc.  etc.) It'll allow not to stick us just to 3DStudio, but
+use  any  3D design tool with published file format and converter from
+that  format to the NEL format. Is it possible to rewrite part of NeL,
+which   is   responsible  to reading game's data, the way it reads data
+directly from XML file? IMHO, it's not too hard.
+
+Comments ? Critics ?
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Mon Mar 12 17:57:15 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiternew.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2CGvEX00300
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:57:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from ZAGER ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15346
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:59 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:58 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <58250011105.20010312175358@teleaction.de>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Data format ?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello to all !
+I   have   some ideas  related to creation and storing of
+game's world data -
+I think,  it's technically possible to store all descriptions of game world
+in  XML  format. I just recall what in past days I have used DXF file
+format   to   interchange  my data between various CAD applications. By
+using of XML, I think, we can implement the same functionality
+as  with  DXF plus additional attributes which we need (i.e. textures,
+sounds,  etc.  etc.) It'll allow not to stick us just to 3DStudio, but
+use  any  3D design tool with published file format and converter from
+that  format to the NEL format. Is it possible to rewrite part of NeL,
+which   is   responsible  to reading game's data, the way it reads data
+directly from XML file? IMHO, it's not too hard.
+
+Comments ? Critics ?
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Mon Mar 12 18:01:37 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2CH1bX00332
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:01:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00948
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:05:45 +0100
+Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:05:45 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010312180545.C700@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+Subject: [Nel] CVS reorganisation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+A semi-important notice. We're currently going over the entire CVS tree
+to make sure all files are correctly placed, and obey our basic naming
+conventions (all lowercase, not spaces in file names, that kind of stuff).
+
+So, don't be afraid if the CVS moves a lot of things around...
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Tue Mar 13 02:31:29 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f2D1VRq02974
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 02:31:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 8231 invoked by uid 1001); 13 Mar 2001 01:26:56 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010313012656.8230.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:26:56 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL73 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Building latest CVS I get the following:
+
+client.cpp:433: cannot declare variable `ChatDisplayer' to be of type `CChatDisplayer'
+client.cpp:433:   since the following virtual functions are abstract:
+/usr/local/include/nel/misc/displayer.h:62:     void NLMISC::IDisplayer::doDisplay(long int, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType, const _STL::string &, const char *, int, const char *)
+
+Anybody else getting this?  I'll figure it out myself if I'm the only
+one,  Otherwise I'd prefer to let someone who knows C++ deal with it.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Tue Mar 13 05:03:52 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([207.44.176.190])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2D43oq03724
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 05:03:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur ([207.44.176.190])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f2D3xE509587
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:59:14 -0800
+Message-ID: <006001c0ab72$3e9ecd70$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010313012656.8230.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:01:12 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I got the same problem, you just beat me to reporting it:)
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment Inc.
+No matter where you go, &this.
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <robert@paradox.got.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:26 PM
+Subject: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+
+
+> Building latest CVS I get the following:
+>
+> client.cpp:433: cannot declare variable `ChatDisplayer' to be of type
+`CChatDisplayer'
+> client.cpp:433:   since the following virtual functions are abstract:
+> /usr/local/include/nel/misc/displayer.h:62:     void
+NLMISC::IDisplayer::doDisplay(long int, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType, const
+_STL::string &, const char *, int, const char *)
+>
+> Anybody else getting this?  I'll figure it out myself if I'm the only
+> one,  Otherwise I'd prefer to let someone who knows C++ deal with it.
+>
+> Robert
+>
+> --
+> Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+> System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept
+> Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+> <robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Mar 13 10:39:29 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2D9dSq05221
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:39:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10573
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:43:35 +0100
+Message-ID: <001b01c0aba1$8442d270$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010313012656.8230.qmail@paradox.got.net> <006001c0ab72$3e9ecd70$9701a8c0@inorbit.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:39:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+the fix is:
+client.cpp line: 413
+change:
+ virtual void display (time_t date, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType logType, const
+std::string &processName, const char *fileName, sint line, const char
+*message)
+to:
+ virtual void doDisplay (time_t date, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType logType, const
+std::string &processName, const char *fileName, sint line, const char
+*message)
+
+and let s rock'n roll.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 5:01 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+
+
+> I got the same problem, you just beat me to reporting it:)
+>
+> Michael Warnock
+> In-Orbit Entertainment Inc.
+> No matter where you go, &this.
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: <robert@paradox.got.net>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:26 PM
+> Subject: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+>
+>
+> > Building latest CVS I get the following:
+> >
+> > client.cpp:433: cannot declare variable `ChatDisplayer' to be of type
+> `CChatDisplayer'
+> > client.cpp:433:   since the following virtual functions are abstract:
+> > /usr/local/include/nel/misc/displayer.h:62:     void
+> NLMISC::IDisplayer::doDisplay(long int, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType, const
+> _STL::string &, const char *, int, const char *)
+> >
+> > Anybody else getting this?  I'll figure it out myself if I'm the only
+> > one,  Otherwise I'd prefer to let someone who knows C++ deal with it.
+> >
+> > Robert
+
+
+
+From archer@nevrax.com Wed Mar 14 09:29:09 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2E8T7E06592
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:29:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09440
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:33:13 +0100
+Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:33:13 +0100
+From: Pierre Bonnefoy <pierre@mobivision.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: RE: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Message-ID: <20010314093313.B9151@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us
+In-Reply-To: <001b01c0aba1$8442d270$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+OK, I had the same problem as 'Robert' and Michael Warnock.
+
+Thank you Vianney for the fix, although, now, I have a different problem
+when compiling the client:
+
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/pierre/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2
+  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o
+login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o
+shards_list_interface.o sight.o
+lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/
+pierre/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> type_info node'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat>::getValue(void)
+const'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> type_info
+function'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> virtual table'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat,
+NLMISC::CQuat>::evalKey(NL3D::CKeyQuat const *, NL3D::CKeyQuat const *,
+float, float, float)'
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+
+
+I have also a problem when compiling the server, but there are many many
+error reports (file included).
+Moreover, I have a little problem first when compiling server : There is
+no --with-python option in configure, and, first, there was a problem as
+Python.h was not found. I added by and in makefile the path towards Python.h
+and subsequent files.
+Shouldn't --with-python option be included also in configure for server ?
+
+
+As a conclusion, I would like to thank people fom Nevrax and every people
+involved in Nevrax.org for such a great job !
+
+
+     Pierre Bonnefoy
+
+[Moderation note: attached file removed for posting in the mailing list]
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Mar 14 12:18:45 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2EBIjE07444
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:18:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13165
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:22:52 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f2EBFvW03324
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:15:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:15:57 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Message-ID: <20010314121557.A3214@nevrax.com>
+References: <001b01c0aba1$8442d270$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20010314093313.B9151@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010314093313.B9151@nevrax.com>; from pierre@mobivision.com on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 09:33:13AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Pierre Bonnefoy wrote:
+> Thank you Vianney for the fix, although, now, I have a different problem
+> when compiling the client:
+>
+> [...]
+
+NeL's headers files are under heavy reorganization so we decide to freeze
+the development of the client until it's finished.
+
+So i strongly recommend to use the last Snowball release, Snowball 0.2, 
+which can be download on http://www.nevrax.org
+
+
+> I have also a problem when compiling the server, but there are many many
+> error reports (file included).
+
+i'm going to take a look on that ...
+
+> Moreover, I have a little problem first when compiling server : There is
+> no --with-python option in configure, and, first, there was a problem as
+> Python.h was not found. I added by and in makefile the path towards Python.h
+> and subsequent files.
+> Shouldn't --with-python option be included also in configure for server ?
+
+It's on my task list for a long time, sorry about that, I will do it
+today ...
+
+> As a conclusion, I would like to thank people fom Nevrax and every people
+> involved in Nevrax.org for such a great job !
+
+Thanks :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Mar 14 16:58:33 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2EFwWE08990
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:58:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
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+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA18986
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:02:39 +0100
+Message-ID: <001701c0ac9f$80b1fe20$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010314093313.B9151@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:57:42 +0100
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/pierre/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2
+>   -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o
+> login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o
+> shards_list_interface.o sight.o
+>
+lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/
+> pierre/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> type_info
+node'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat,
+NLMISC::CQuat>::getValue(void)
+> const'
+
+I have fixed that bug. It should be on the cvs tonight (GMT+1).
+
+*** For c++ addicts, here is the problem ***
+
+The link failed under GCC when we use non-inline functions in a template
+implementation.
+No problem with Visual C++ 6.0.
+
+It looked like this:
+
+in the .h file:
+-----------
+
+// Two template classes
+template<class T>
+class a
+{
+    virtual void toto()=0;
+};
+
+template<class T>
+class b : public a<T>
+{
+    virtual void toto()
+    {
+        ...
+    };
+};
+
+// The second one is implemented, but toto function body is in the .cpp
+file.
+class b<int> : public a<int>
+{
+    virtual void toto();
+};
+
+In the .cpp:
+-----------
+virtual void b<int>::toto()
+{
+    ...
+};
+
+The fixe was to let the toto body inline in the header.
+
+Any comments ?
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From loic@senga.org Wed Mar 14 18:18:27 2001
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (lager.lolix.net [213.228.61.200])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2EHIQE09429
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:18:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@senga.org)
+Received: (from loic@localhost)
+	by localhost.localdomain (8.11.0/8.11.0) id f2EG1mg17092;
+	Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:01:48 +0100
+X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: loic set sender to loic@senga.org using -f
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15023.38380.93171.724925@localhost.localdomain>
+Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:01:48 +0100 (CET)
+From: loic@senga.org
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under Emacs 20.7.1
+Subject: [Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The message of AC_MSG_CHECKING is included in double quotes and should
+not (double quote included alread -> <> act as redirections).
+
+[loic@loic nel]$ cvs diff -c configure.in
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -c -c -r1.23 configure.in
+*** configure.in	2001/02/26 17:46:48	1.23
+--- configure.in	2001/03/14 17:14:26
+***************
+*** 217,223 ****
+  )
+  
+  dnl Checking the GLEXT version
+! AC_MSG_CHECKING("for <GL/glext.h> version")
+  AC_EGREP_CPP( yo_glext_version,
+  [#include <GL/glext.h>
+  #ifdef GL_GLEXT_VERSION
+--- 217,223 ----
+  )
+  
+  dnl Checking the GLEXT version
+! AC_MSG_CHECKING(for <GL/glext.h> version)
+  AC_EGREP_CPP( yo_glext_version,
+  [#include <GL/glext.h>
+  #ifdef GL_GLEXT_VERSION
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+24 av Secretan         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75019    Paris         Tel: 33 1 42 45 09 16        loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Mar 14 18:37:37 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2EHbbE09535
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:37:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:41:43 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f2EHYlv19216
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:34:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:34:47 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage
+Message-ID: <20010314183446.A19202@nevrax.com>
+References: <15023.38380.93171.724925@localhost.localdomain>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <15023.38380.93171.724925@localhost.localdomain>; from loic@senga.org on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 05:01:48PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+loic@senga.org wrote:
+> 
+> The message of AC_MSG_CHECKING is included in double quotes and should
+> not (double quote included alread -> <> act as redirections).
+
+Fixed.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From robert@paradox.got.net Thu Mar 15 01:28:00 2001
+Received: from paradox.got.net (paradox.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.196])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f2F0RxE11496
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+	(envelope-from robert@paradox.got.net)
+Received: (qmail 7431 invoked by uid 1001); 15 Mar 2001 00:23:43 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010315002343.7430.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+From: robert@paradox.got.net
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+In-Reply-To: <001701c0ac9f$80b1fe20$1701a8c0@nevrax.net> from Cyril Corvazier
+ at "Mar 14, 2001 04:57:42 pm"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:23:43 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
+> *** For c++ addicts, here is the problem ***
+> 
+> The link failed under GCC when we use non-inline functions in a template
+> implementation.
+> No problem with Visual C++ 6.0.
+
+What is your programming environment like?  Do you have equal parts
+Windows and Unix develovers?  What kind of testing do you have?
+Judging by the dates in CVS it looks like you've been developing for
+about five months, is this correct?  Is all of your development staff
+focused on the GPL'd parts right now, or is some development already
+underway for the proprietary content (game code)?
+
+Is someone over there working on documentation?  Is there a public
+document describing your objectives and plans?
+
+I'm also still curious in which ways the non-nevrax community can best
+assist your efforts.  It seems the bug reports and patches are
+well-received, but without much documentation it's hard to tell where
+our efforts are most needed.
+
+Thanks!
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+From pierre@mobivision.com Thu Mar 15 18:40:00 2001
+Received: from heimdall.mqgprs.dmr.arcenciel.fr (IDENT:root@[192.33.150.170])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2FHdtE16761
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:39:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from pierre@mobivision.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:14:36 +0100
+From: "Pierre Bonnefoy" <pierre@mobivision.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:37:39 +0100
+Message-ID: <FBEIKDLDKJGFEBILCOHOKEMJCAAA.pierre@mobivision.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+In-Reply-To: <001701c0ac9f$80b1fe20$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+Importance: Normal
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+OK, thanks a lot for your explanations.
+
+Downloaded this morning code on CVS, and library and client compile well
+(although I have still problems with server side).
+My problem now is to get a conf to be able to use the game, because I get
+0.5 fps with mine (PIII 500 + 128 MB RAM + Matrox G200 + Linux).
+
+
+-----Message d'origine-----
+De : nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]De la part de
+Cyril Corvazier
+Envoyé : mercredi 14 mars 2001 16:58
+À : nel@nevrax.org
+Objet : Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+
+
+>
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/pierre/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2
+>   -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o
+> login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o
+> shards_list_interface.o sight.o
+>
+lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/
+> pierre/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> type_info
+node'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat,
+NLMISC::CQuat>::getValue(void)
+> const'
+
+I have fixed that bug. It should be on the cvs tonight (GMT+1).
+
+*** For c++ addicts, here is the problem ***
+
+The link failed under GCC when we use non-inline functions in a template
+implementation.
+No problem with Visual C++ 6.0.
+
+It looked like this:
+
+in the .h file:
+-----------
+
+// Two template classes
+template<class T>
+class a
+{
+    virtual void toto()=0;
+};
+
+template<class T>
+class b : public a<T>
+{
+    virtual void toto()
+    {
+        ...
+    };
+};
+
+// The second one is implemented, but toto function body is in the .cpp
+file.
+class b<int> : public a<int>
+{
+    virtual void toto();
+};
+
+In the .cpp:
+-----------
+virtual void b<int>::toto()
+{
+    ...
+};
+
+The fixe was to let the toto body inline in the header.
+
+Any comments ?
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Mar 15 20:46:11 2001
+Received: from nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2FJkBE17412
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:46:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw.localdomain [192.168.254.254])
+	by nevrax.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09094
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:50:16 +0100
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f2FJhFV48063
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:43:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:43:15 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010315204315.A48039@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+We improved the Python detection and NeL configuration :
+
+    you do not have to use --with-python as an argument for the
+    configure script, now it's automatic ...
+
+We fixed the server compilation, so it should compile with today's
+NeL cvs files, but the agent service doesn't work at the momment,
+you will get a segmentation fault if you try to launch it :-(
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From nettwerk@valinux.com Tue Mar 20 21:00:12 2001
+Received: from mail.valinux.com (mail@mail.valinux.com [198.186.202.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2KK0BE54289
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:00:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nettwerk@valinux.com)
+Received: from dhcp-engr-217.engr.valinux.com ([10.12.1.217] helo=valinux.com)
+	by mail.valinux.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Debian))
+	id 14fSFp-0000JA-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:57:17 -0800
+Message-ID: <3AB7B63D.7DE4C3ED@valinux.com>
+Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:57:50 -0800
+From: San Mehat <nettwerk@valinux.com>
+Organization: VA Linux Systems
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] list
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+list
+
+
+From return@trafficmagnet.net Tue Mar 27 04:58:29 2001
+Received: from ns2.trafficmagnet.net (IDENT:root@[202.108.223.8])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2R2wLE08564
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:58:27 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from return@trafficmagnet.net)
+Received: from christine ([202.108.221.168])
+	by ns2.trafficmagnet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA28383
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:00:07 +0800
+Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:00:07 +0800
+Message-Id: <200103270300.LAA28383@ns2.trafficmagnet.net>
+From: Christine Hall<return@trafficmagnet.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
+<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
+<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=#ffffff><img src="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+" width=1 height=1 border=0><FONT face=Arial size=2>
+<P>Hello,<BR></P>
+<P>I visited 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> and I 
+noticed that you are not listed on some search engines. I am sure you can 
+increase the number of people who visit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A>. Do you know TrafficMagnet? TrafficMagnet is a unique technology that automatically submits your 
+web site to over 300,000+ search engines and directories every month. This is a 
+very low-cost and effective way of advertising your site. </P>
+<P>To check our prices and submit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> to 
+300,000+ search engines, go to <a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">TrafficMagnet.net</A></P>
+<P>I would love to hear from you. </P>
+<P>Best Regards,<BR>Christine Hall<BR>Sales &amp; Marketing<BR><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">www.TrafficMagnet.net</A> 
+<STYLE type=text/css>.button {
+	BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc0000; COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-WEIGHT: bold
+}
+</STYLE>
+</P>
+<P>
+<TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 width=507>
+  <TBODY>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif" 
+      width=59></A></TD>
+    <TD width=253>
+      <TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0>
+        <TBODY>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=21><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg" 
+            width=21></A></TD>
+          <TD height=24 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=24 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=22><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg" 
+            width=22></A></TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD>
+<A Href = http://www.nevrax.org><IMG Src = http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg Border=0 width="210" height="141"></A>
+</A>
+          </TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=25 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=25 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
+    <TD width=239><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=175 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif" 
+      width=239></A></TD></TR>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=48 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59>&nbsp;</TD>
+    <TD align=middle vAlign=bottom width=253>
+	<a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif"></A>
+    </TD>
+    <TD align=right vAlign=bottom 
+width=239>&nbsp;</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
+
+From damien@mandrakesoft.com Wed Mar 28 04:01:45 2001
+Received: from jabba.mandrakesoft.com (office.mandrakesoft.com [195.68.114.34])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2S21iE16054
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 04:01:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from damien@mandrakesoft.com)
+Received: by jabba.mandrakesoft.com (Postfix, from userid 547)
+	id 20635283C5; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 02:57:52 +0200 (CEST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: "dam's" <damien@mandrakesoft.com>
+Date: 28 Mar 2001 02:57:52 +0200
+In-Reply-To: <200103270300.LAA28383@ns2.trafficmagnet.net>
+Message-ID: <ksae66emlr.fsf@jabba.mandrakesoft.com>
+Lines: 5
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+
+-- 
+dam's
+
+From robert@wrack.thatsnice.org Wed Mar 28 05:01:02 2001
+Received: from wrack.thatsnice.org (wrack.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.202])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f2S312E16348
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 05:01:02 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from robert@wrack.thatsnice.org)
+Received: (qmail 32270 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Mar 2001 02:57:50 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010328025750.32269.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+From: robert@wrack.thatsnice.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+In-Reply-To: <ksae66emlr.fsf@jabba.mandrakesoft.com> "from dam's at Mar 28, 2001
+ 02:57:52 am"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:57:50 -0800 (PST)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL87 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> 
+> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+
+We're waiting for the Nevrax folks to tell us they're done
+re-arranging the NeL layout.  Check it out:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life."
+<robert@got.net>                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+From damien@mandrakesoft.com Wed Mar 28 06:18:52 2001
+Received: from jabba.mandrakesoft.com (office.mandrakesoft.com [195.68.114.34])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2S4IqE16707
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:18:52 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from damien@mandrakesoft.com)
+Received: by jabba.mandrakesoft.com (Postfix, from userid 547)
+	id 507E5283CD; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 05:14:57 +0200 (CEST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+References: <20010328025750.32269.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+From: "dam's" <damien@mandrakesoft.com>
+Date: 28 Mar 2001 05:14:57 +0200
+In-Reply-To: <20010328025750.32269.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+Message-ID: <kselvi7ff2.fsf@jabba.mandrakesoft.com>
+Lines: 14
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+robert@wrack.thatsnice.org writes:
+
+> > 
+> > Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+> 
+> We're waiting for the Nevrax folks to tell us they're done
+> re-arranging the NeL layout.  Check it out:
+> 
+> http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html
+
+ok, great ! 
+
+-- 
+dam's
+
+From archer@mail.nevrax.com Wed Mar 28 10:21:24 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2S8LNE17790
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:21:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer@mail.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f2S8NL415468
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:23:21 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer)
+Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:23:21 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+Message-ID: <20010328102233.B15004@nevrax.com>
+References: <200103270300.LAA28383@ns2.trafficmagnet.net> <ksae66emlr.fsf@jabba.mandrakesoft.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <ksae66emlr.fsf@jabba.mandrakesoft.com>; from damien@mandrakesoft.com on Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 02:57:52AM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to dam's:
+> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+
+Which is the second time it got on this list. Trafficmagnet will soon land
+in the forbidden domain list here.
+
+No, the list is unusually quiet these days. Chalk it up to GDC (Games
+Developpers Conference, for those of you not familiar with the industry).
+We're edging on toward our first internal milestone, so we haven't started
+a new discussion, and apparently we haven't had a major hiccup in the CVS
+recently... so we have fewer complaints than the usual too.
+
+The web server overhaul mentioned is close to done (but we're overhauling
+our internal web tools too, so that takes time). Expect a more up-to-date
+documentation.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com Wed Mar 28 15:31:07 2001
+Received: from puck.channelinx.com (mail.channelinx.com [12.19.58.34])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2SDV6E19659
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:31:06 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com)
+Received: from pluto (uranus.channelinx.com [12.19.58.33])
+	by puck.channelinx.com (Switch-2.0.5/Switch-2.0.5) with SMTP id f2SERxD26319
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:27:59 -0500
+Received: by jupiter with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
+	id <GRTZRR6D>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:27:59 -0500
+Message-ID: <FBE4EA33792BD4118DE300D0B723F968B28DC2@jupiter>
+From: Matthew Flagg <Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com>
+To: "'nel@nevrax.org'" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:27:59 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I replied not only to that email but every contact address on their site and
+politely, in two lines, asked them to not use our developer's list as spam
+receptacle.  I tried before but I guess they didn't get it.  Maybe we should
+actually subscribe them to the list! :)  That way they would know exactly
+whats going on. :)
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Vincent Archer [mailto:archer@nevrax.com]
+Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 3:23 AM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+
+
+According to dam's:
+> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except
+some ad.
+
+Which is the second time it got on this list. Trafficmagnet will soon land
+in the forbidden domain list here.
+
+No, the list is unusually quiet these days. Chalk it up to GDC (Games
+Developpers Conference, for those of you not familiar with the industry).
+We're edging on toward our first internal milestone, so we haven't started
+a new discussion, and apparently we haven't had a major hiccup in the CVS
+recently... so we have fewer complaints than the usual too.
+
+The web server overhaul mentioned is close to done (but we're overhauling
+our internal web tools too, so that takes time). Expect a more up-to-date
+documentation.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email:
+archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we
+go!
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Mar 29 11:24:47 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f2T9OlE27288
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:24:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f2T9Qk064928
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:26:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f2T9LfJ29126
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:21:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Resent-Message-Id: <200103290921.f2T9LfJ29126@gw.nevrax.com>
+Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:53:19 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+Message-ID: <20010328195319.A26273@nevrax.com>
+References: <001701c0ac9f$80b1fe20$1701a8c0@nevrax.net> <20010315002343.7430.qmail@paradox.got.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010315002343.7430.qmail@paradox.got.net>; from robert@paradox.got.net on Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 04:23:43PM -0800
+Resent-From: valignat@nevrax.com
+Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:21:41 +0200
+Resent-To: nel@nevrax.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> 
+> What is your programming environment like?
+
+On Windows computers :
+
+   Windows 2000
+   Visual C++ 6.0
+   WinCVS and TortoiseCVS
+
+On GNU/Linux computers :
+
+   Debian, Redhat and Mandrake distributions
+   GCC 2.95.2 and 2.96 (yes i now :-)
+   Emacs, XEmacs, or kdevelop
+   DDD / GDB
+
+
+> Do you have equal parts Windows and Unix develovers?
+
+Most of us are working on Windows, the VC++ debuging system is a lot more
+appreciated by some of us :-)
+
+
+> What kind of testing do you have?
+
+We have two major way of testing our work :
+
+   using Snowball as a test program
+   and / or writing small applications to test specific functionalities.
+
+It's very basic :-)
+
+
+> Judging by the dates in CVS it looks like you've been developing for
+> about five months, is this correct?
+
+We started coding approximately 10 months ago. We developed some code
+to make some tests to make some decisions about the technologie to
+use and some other points ...
+
+
+> Is all of your development staff focused on the GPL'd parts right
+> now, or is some development already underway for the proprietary
+> content (game code)?
+
+We have been working on the our game code for some time now, so we are
+currently working on both parts, GPL and proprietary code.
+
+
+> Is someone over there working on documentation?  Is there a public
+> document describing your objectives and plans?
+
+We are currently working on the documentation, and we should be able to
+make our work available soon ;-)
+
+
+> I'm also still curious in which ways the non-nevrax community can best
+> assist your efforts.  It seems the bug reports and patches are
+> well-received, but without much documentation it's hard to tell where
+> our efforts are most needed.
+
+Our documentions will include a roadmap and other related documents, so
+you should be able get a better idea on what we are doing and on what
+we plan to work on ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From brandon_425@yahoo.com Thu Apr  5 19:22:15 2001
+Received: from web3701.mail.yahoo.com (web3701.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f35HMDE94395
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:22:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from brandon_425@yahoo.com)
+Message-ID: <20010405171911.9921.qmail@web3701.mail.yahoo.com>
+Received: from [134.134.248.29] by web3701.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:19:11 PDT
+Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
+From: Brandon <brandon_425@yahoo.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Subscribe Me
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+ 
+ 
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
+http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
+
+From brandon_425@yahoo.com Thu Apr  5 20:27:20 2001
+Received: from web3701.mail.yahoo.com (web3701.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.203.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f35IRJE94773
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:27:20 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from brandon_425@yahoo.com)
+Message-ID: <20010405182417.17291.qmail@web3701.mail.yahoo.com>
+Received: from [134.134.248.29] by web3701.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:24:17 PDT
+Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
+From: Brandon <brandon_425@yahoo.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <200104051739.f35HdXE94517@www.nevrax.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Mark,
+
+I noticed that you had reflexnet.net also as your ISP. I can't
+believe they pulled the carpet right out from under us and went
+bankrupt. Technology is funny these days.  Just like the stock
+market. Ouch!!!  :)  Funny huh?  I found a great new ISP, let me
+know if you want the info or if you could give me some help
+finding a new ISP.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Brandon
+brandon_425@yahoo.com
+Home: 503.605.5433
+
+
+--- nel-request@nevrax.org wrote:
+> Welcome to the Nel@nevrax.org mailing list!
+> 
+> To post to this list, send your email to:
+> 
+>   nel@nevrax.org
+> 
+> General information about the mailing list is at:
+> 
+>   http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg,
+> switch to
+> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
+> subscription page at:
+> 
+>  
+>
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/options.cgi/nel/brandon_425@yahoo.com
+> 
+> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a
+> message to:
+> 
+>   Nel-request@nevrax.org
+> 
+> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
+> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
+> 
+> You must know your password to change your options (including
+> changing
+> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:
+> 
+>   by09661
+> 
+> If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a
+> monthly
+> reminder telling you what all your nevrax.org mailing list
+> passwords
+> are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options.  There is
+> also a
+> button on your options page that will email your current
+> password to
+> you.
+> 
+> You may also have your password mailed to you automatically
+> off of the
+> Web page noted above.
+
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
+http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
+
+From robert@thatsnice.org Sun Apr  8 17:51:05 2001
+Received: from wrack.thatsnice.org (wrack.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.202])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f38Fp3E22598
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 17:51:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from robert@thatsnice.org)
+Received: (qmail 4521 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Apr 2001 15:47:54 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010408154754.4520.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+From: robert@thatsnice.org
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL87 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello again Nevrax folks,
+
+I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+to get involved again.
+
+Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is
+collaboration with the community.  We're not just here to bug you. :)
+
+Hope everything's going well.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life."
+<robert@got.net>                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Apr  9 18:56:28 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f39GuEE31221
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:56:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f39Gw8091401
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:58:08 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f39GqrG50130
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:52:53 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:52:53 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?
+Message-ID: <20010409185253.A49411@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010408154754.4520.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010408154754.4520.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>; from robert@thatsnice.org on Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 08:47:53AM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Robert,
+
+robert@thatsnice.org wrote:
+> 
+> Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is
+> collaboration with the community.  We're not just here to bug you. :)
+
+hehe ... i think that we quite aware of that :-)
+
+We are just meeting some of our own internal Milestones so, as you guess,
+we are quite busy at the moment.
+
+Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+
+A new version of Snowball sould be done for the first of May. That new
+version will use the new network and 3D implementation of NeL.
+
+So don't worry, we didn't forget you, it's just that we are very busy.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From David.Mentre@inria.fr Tue Apr 10 09:20:50 2001
+Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3A7KmE37155
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:20:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@inria.fr)
+Received: from pochi.inria.fr (pochi.inria.fr [128.93.8.128])
+	by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f3A7Heb13398
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:17:41 +0200 (MET DST)
+Received: (from mentre@localhost)
+	by pochi.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) id f3A7Hgq10241;
+	Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:17:42 +0200
+X-Authentication-Warning: pochi.inria.fr: mentre set sender to David.Mentre@inria.fr using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?
+References: <20010408154754.4520.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+	<20010409185253.A49411@nevrax.com>
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@inria.fr>
+Date: 10 Apr 2001 09:17:41 +0200
+In-Reply-To: <20010409185253.A49411@nevrax.com>
+Message-ID: <qtlae5p8bqi.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Lines: 15
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.4
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+> the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+
+About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen?
+Automata over kernel threads?
+
+BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but
+did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Tue Apr 10 10:06:07 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3A865E37407
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:06:05 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f3A880095042
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:08:00 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000d01c0c194$7e3b9b10$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010408154754.4520.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?
+Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:01:48 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Robert
+
+> I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+> you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+> to get involved again.
+
+What kind of project you are working on ?
+
+
+From archer@mail.nevrax.com Tue Apr 10 16:33:10 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (lan194.nice.imaginet.fr [195.68.21.194] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3AEXAE39695
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:33:10 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer@mail.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3AEZ6801891
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:35:06 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer)
+Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:35:06 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?
+Message-ID: <20010410163506.D854@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010408154754.4520.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org> <20010409185253.A49411@nevrax.com> <qtlae5p8bqi.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <qtlae5p8bqi.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>; from David.Mentre@inria.fr on Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 09:17:41AM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to David Mentre:
+> Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+> > Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+> > the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+> 
+> About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen?
+> Automata over kernel threads?
+
+We're finishing the design docs, which will explain exactly how we're
+going to work. Can't explain further yet. You'll have to wait a little bit
+more for these to appear on the web/CVS.
+
+> BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but
+> did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests?
+
+We haven't any formal test system for elementary modules. There are some
+self-contained examples in the nel/samples directory that show how some
+modules work, and which could easily be turned into testbeds to check
+functionality.
+
+If you think you can find better examples, or put added examples that
+can serve as tests at the same time, your contribution will be well
+appreciated.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From robert@thatsnice.org Wed Apr 11 00:38:11 2001
+Received: from wrack.thatsnice.org (wrack.thatsnice.org [207.111.205.202])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f3AMc8E42365
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:38:09 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from robert@thatsnice.org)
+Received: (qmail 30984 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Apr 2001 22:35:01 -0000
+Message-ID: <20010410223501.30982.qmail@wrack.thatsnice.org>
+From: robert@thatsnice.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?
+In-Reply-To: <000d01c0c194$7e3b9b10$1001a8c0@sameh> "from sameh chafik Pro at
+ Apr 10, 2001 10:01:48 am"
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT)
+X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL87 (25)]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
+> Hello Robert
+> 
+> > I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+> > you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+> > to get involved again.
+> 
+> What kind of project you are working on ?
+
+Why a 3d MUD, of course.
+
+I started out on a MOO, then got into ColdMUD, which then begat this
+project:
+
+coldstore.sourceforge.net
+
+Which is just the back-end, and is embrionic still.
+
+My goal is to replace all the MMORPGs with a decentralized free
+alternative.  Of course, this would compete with Nevrax, but that will
+just encourage them to be better. :)
+
+I think Nevrax has the best philosophical approach to this problem of
+any commercial effort, and I applaud them.  However, since I don't
+work there, and I still want to work on these problems, I work for
+free.
+
+The particular subject I wish to tackle with an MMORPG is the social
+experimentation subject.  This has been tried before in text-based
+adventures (LambdaMOO and its descendents), but never on a large
+enough scale or with new technology.
+
+I want to see if we can learn something as a culture by creating a
+super dynamic world with maximum "player" input into the universe and
+maybe solve some of our differences inside that world.  Then maybe we
+can carry those lessons to the outside world.
+
+My experiment would NOT be a game.  It would also not be a pure
+simulation because we just don't have that technology yet, either in
+input and output or in resources to process or computer it.  It would
+be a rough analogy of life, and would try to put everyone at roughly
+the same level of world interaction, within reason.  It would be based
+heavily on life as we know it, but with an accelerated time scale.
+
+I try not to think too much about whether I actually expect this to
+ever happen or be popular. :)
+
+Thanks for asking!
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life."
+<robert@got.net>                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+From derikson@montana.com Fri Apr 13 04:58:24 2001
+Received: from mailA.montana.com (mailA.montana.com [199.2.139.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3D2wME62052
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 04:58:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from derikson@montana.com)
+Received: from montana.com (btm2-168.montana.com [207.40.46.168])
+	by mailA.montana.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f3D2i3H11980
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:44:04 -0600 (MDT)
+Message-ID: <3AD6692E.5070604@montana.com>
+Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:49:18 -0600
+From: Dan Erikson <derikson@montana.com>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.0 i686; en-US; 0.8.1) Gecko/20010307
+X-Accept-Language: en
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+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] proposed control changes
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all, this is kind of long, sorry.  I had some thoughts that I'd like to
+get some feedback on, and some code that you might find useful.
+
+I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so
+that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window
+and move the mouse in order to move the view around.  This is a change
+from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the
+application.  This allows one to use other applications while the game
+is running.  I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at
+the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons.  It'll also alow
+for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of
+the screen.  The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on
+windows.  It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone 
+would test it.
+
+I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already 
+in use
+for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would
+work better:
+
+* Left mouse button to move the view around
+* Right mouse button to move forward
+* Space button to throw a snowball
+* Enter button to enter chat mode
+     After text is typed and enter is pressed, return from chat mode
+* Mousewheel forward to zoom in
+* Mousewheel backwards to zoom out
+* Left button turns the view left normally
+* If control+left or left_mouse+left, then strafe left
+* Right button turns the view right normally
+* If control+right or left_mouse+right, then strafe right
+
+The normal mode/chat mode allows us to use the keys for functionality rather
+than F1-F12, which is a little harder to remember than something like 
+'r' for
+toggle radar.  Also, there are a limited number of function buttons, so I
+think having access to all the other keys would allow good future expansion.
+
+The changes to the mouse buttons allows one to move around the world using
+only the mouse.
+
+It would also be nice to have the ability to customize these keys, but 
+that's
+something for a little later.
+
+If anyone has any comments about this stuff, I'd love to hear them.
+
+Patch to use right mouse button to move the heading around:
+
+Index: move_listener.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -c -r1.23 move_listener.cpp
+*** move_listener.cpp    2001/04/10 10:20:48    1.23
+--- move_listener.cpp    2001/04/13 02:21:30
+***************
+*** 54,63 ****
+  \****************************************************************/
+  CMoveListener::CMoveListener()
+  {
+!     _MouseFree = false;
+    
+-     _CursorInit = false;
+-
+     _Width = 0;
+     _Height = 0;
+ 
+--- 54,61 ----
+  \****************************************************************/
+  CMoveListener::CMoveListener()
+  {
+!     _MouseFree = true;
+    
+     _Width = 0;
+     _Height = 0;
+ 
+***************
+*** 184,190 ****
+  \****************************************************************/
+  void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent& event)
+  {
+!     static const float eps = 0.001f;
+ 
+     // Rotation
+     if (event==EventMouseMoveId)
+--- 182,188 ----
+  \****************************************************************/
+  void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent& event)
+  {
+!     static const float eps = 0.002f;
+ 
+     // Rotation
+     if (event==EventMouseMoveId)
+***************
+*** 196,240 ****
+ 
+         if(!_MouseFree)
+         {
+!             if(_CursorInit)
+             {
+!                 float difx =  0.5f-mouseEvent->X;
+!                 float dify =  -(0.5f-mouseEvent->Y);
+!                 if( (float)fabs(difx) > eps || (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+                 {
+!                     if ( (float)fabs(difx) > eps)
+!                     {
+!                          LocalArea->User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) );
+                     }
+!                     if ( (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+!                     {
+!                          LocalArea->User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify);
+!                          if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch>(float)Pi/2)
+!                          {
+!                              LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2;
+!                          }
+!                          if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch<-(float)Pi/2)
+!                          {
+!                              LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2;
+!                          }
+                     }
+-                     _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(0.5,0.5);
+                 }
+               }
+-               else
+-               {
+-                   _CursorInit = true;
+-                 _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(0.5,0.5);
+-               }
+         }
+     }
+  
+ 
+ 
+-     // Shoot with left mouse button
+     if ( event==EventMouseDownId)
+     {
+         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event;
+         if(mouseEvent->Button==leftButton && CanShot)
+         {
+             if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) && ClientSocket->connected() )
+--- 194,230 ----
+ 
+         if(!_MouseFree)
+         {
+!             float difx =  _MouseLockX-mouseEvent->X;
+!             float dify =  -(_MouseLockY-mouseEvent->Y);
+!             if( (float)fabs(difx) > eps || (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+             {
+!                 if ( (float)fabs(difx) > eps)
+!                 {
+!                     LocalArea->User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) );
+!                 }
+!                 if ( (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+                 {
+!                     LocalArea->User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify);
+!                     if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch>(float)Pi/2)
+!                      {
+!                         LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2;
+                     }
+!                     if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch<-(float)Pi/2)
+!                      {
+!                         LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2;
+                     }
+                 }
++                 _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(_MouseLockX,_MouseLockY);
+               }
+         }
+     }
+  
+ 
+ 
+     if ( event==EventMouseDownId)
+     {
+         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event;
++         // Shoot with left mouse button
+         if(mouseEvent->Button==leftButton && CanShot)
+         {
+             if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) && ClientSocket->connected() )
+***************
+*** 249,254 ****
+--- 239,259 ----
+                 }
+             }
+         }
++         if(mouseEvent->Button==rightButton && _MouseFree)
++         {
++             _MouseLockX = mouseEvent->X;
++             _MouseLockY = mouseEvent->Y;
++             changeControlMode();
++         }
++     }
++
++     if(event==EventMouseUpId)
++     {
++         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event;
++         if(mouseEvent->Button==rightButton && !_MouseFree)
++         {
++             changeControlMode();
++         }
+     }
+  }
+ 
+***************
+*** 260,265 ****
+--- 265,271 ----
+  {
+     server.addListener (EventMouseMoveId, this);
+     server.addListener (EventMouseDownId, this);
++     server.addListener (EventMouseUpId, this);
+  }
+ 
+ 
+***************
+*** 270,274 ****
+--- 276,281 ----
+  {
+     server.removeListener (EventMouseMoveId, this);
+     server.removeListener (EventMouseDownId, this);
++     server.removeListener (EventMouseUpId, this);
+  }
+ 
+Index: move_listener.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.15
+diff -c -r1.15 move_listener.h
+*** move_listener.h    2001/03/05 09:39:44    1.15
+--- move_listener.h    2001/04/13 02:21:30
+***************
+*** 119,127 ****
+     /// Internal use
+     virtual void operator()(const NLMISC::CEvent& event);
+    
+-     /// true if first setMousePos done
+-     bool _CursorInit;
+-
+     CScene * _Scene;
+    
+     /// screen width
+--- 119,124 ----
+***************
+*** 155,160 ****
+--- 152,160 ----
+     float _MouseY;
+ 
+     bool _Shot;
++
++     float _MouseLockX;
++     float _MouseLockY;
+  };
+ 
+ 
+Index: client.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/client.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.177
+diff -c -r1.177 client.cpp
+*** client.cpp    2001/04/12 17:06:42    1.177
+--- client.cpp    2001/04/13 02:22:13
+***************
+*** 1880,1893 ****
+     LocalArea->setEntityMovedCallback( moveEntityInstance );
+     LocalArea->setEntityRemovedCallback( deleteEntityInstance );
+ 
+-     // hide mouse cursor
+-     CNELU::Driver->showCursor(false);
+- #ifdef NL_RELEASE
+-     CNELU::Driver->setCapture(true);
+- #endif
+-
+-
+-
+     // Load meshes
+     /*
+     vector<string>::iterator itshp;
+--- 1880,1885 ----
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Apr 13 19:45:07 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3DHj7E66902
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:45:07 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3DHlDg29125
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:47:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f3DHfPh19469
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:41:25 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:41:25 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] proposed control changes
+Message-ID: <20010413194125.A19222@nevrax.com>
+References: <3AD6692E.5070604@montana.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3AD6692E.5070604@montana.com>; from derikson@montana.com on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 08:49:18PM -0600
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Dan Erikson wrote:
+> 
+> I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so
+> that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window
+> and move the mouse in order to move the view around.  This is a change
+> from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the
+> application.  This allows one to use other applications while the game
+> is running.  I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at
+> the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons.  It'll also alow
+> for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of
+> the screen.  The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on
+> windows.  It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone 
+> would test it.
+
+Nice :-)
+
+I'm going to take a look on that next week and i will test it on windows
+before to integrate the patch. I will keep you inform of the results :-)
+
+> I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already 
+> in use
+> for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would
+> work better:
+> [...]
+
+The control configuration is a very personal thing, we choose a quite common
+way to configure the moves control ... but it wiil be nice to be able to
+easly configure them :-)
+
+I do agree with you on the Function keys and the ability to be able to use
+the other keys of the keyboard ... migth be nice to have ;-)
+
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From archer@mail.nevrax.com Fri Apr 13 11:32:47 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3D9WkE64106
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:32:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer@mail.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3D9Yrw22528
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:34:53 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer)
+Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:34:53 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20010413113452.A22482@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] A small document for your consumption
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+While waiting for the whole load, here's a quick and short document. Look
+at it, and critique your hearts out...
+
+Client server connect
+
+This document describes quickly the connection process of a client to a world
+running a NeL-based system.
+
+Abbreviations
+-------------
+
+LS: The login service (one overall)
+WS: The welcome service (one for each world)
+FES: The front-end service (N per world)
+
+Steps
+-----
+
+1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied
+   IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP
+   resolution.
+
+   Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS
+   spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client.
+   However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location.
+
+2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+
+3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all
+   available worlds according to account information and current system
+   settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that
+   world.
+
+   Note: DNS is not used in that step.
+
+4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+   of its world service to the LS.
+
+5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection
+   desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the
+   incoming connection.
+
+   Note: The cookie includes the client's IP, as seen by the LS (to avoid
+   address translation problems) for validation.
+
+6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie
+   to the FES.
+
+7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS.
+
+8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and
+   indicates the IP/port of the selected FES.
+
+9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the
+   IP/port of the selected FES.
+
+10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+
+11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+
+12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES.
+
+13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie.
+
+Side notes
+----------
+
+Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS,
+using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two
+physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message
+serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Mon Apr 16 22:03:27 2001
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3GK3PE94142
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:03:25 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tsm@IDEALX.com)
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+	id 14pF9z-0000tE-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:59:43 +0200
+Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:59:43 +0200
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] A small document for your consumption
+Message-ID: <20010416215943.A3226@IDEALX.com>
+References: <20010413113452.A22482@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i
+In-Reply-To: <20010413113452.A22482@nevrax.com>; from archer@nevrax.com on Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> Steps
+> -----
+> 
+> 1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied
+>    IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP
+>    resolution.
+> 
+>    Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS
+>    spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client.
+>    However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location.
+
+Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ?
+(dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...)
+
+> 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+
+In plaintext ?
+
+> 3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all
+>    available worlds according to account information and current system
+>    settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that
+>    world.
+
+Maybe the use of challenges would be more secure, but i'm not a specialist in
+this matter :-(
+
+> 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+>    of its world service to the LS.
+
+Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ?
+(then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS)
+
+> [...]
+> 10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+> 
+> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+
+I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS
+_after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes
+wrong, the client could goto 4 directly.
+
+
+Best regards,
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              | http://vawis.net
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | http://erlang-fr.org (new)
+key 0xA3D021CB               | http://worldforge.org
+
+
+From tsm@IDEALX.com Tue Apr 17 09:22:43 2001
+Received: from sarajevo.idealx.com (sarajevo.idealx.com [213.41.87.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3H7MaE98216
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:22:37 +0200 (CEST)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:33:31 +0200
+Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:33:31 +0200
+From: Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] A small document for your consumption
+Message-ID: <20010417083331.A4152@IDEALX.com>
+References: <20010413113452.A22482@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.17i
+In-Reply-To: <20010413113452.A22482@nevrax.com>; from archer@nevrax.com on Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> Steps
+> -----
+> [...]
+> 5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection
+>    desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the
+>    incoming connection.
+
+The LS <--> WS connection should be studied, perhaps ?
+(if it wasn't intended in this document, then let's see that later.. ;-) )
+
+[ *err.. ok i just read the end on the original mail, just forget it* ]
+
+> 6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie
+>    to the FES.
+> 
+> 7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS.
+
+So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ?
+-- the balancing being done at network level, not process level --
+
+> 8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and
+>    indicates the IP/port of the selected FES.
+> 
+> 9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the
+>    IP/port of the selected FES.
+> 
+> 10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+> 
+> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+> 
+> 12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES.
+> 
+> 13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie.
+
+IMHO, as said in the other mail, the client should then disconnect from the
+LS ; not before. The downside I see in this case would be the extended time of
+connection (steps 11 et 13), which will lead to more network load. I don't see
+how important that would be.
+
+> Side notes
+> ----------
+> 
+> Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS,
+> using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two
+> physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message
+> serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+> name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+> to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+
+ok, so i should have read the whole document before arguing ;-))
+
+Hope this helps..
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              | http://vawis.net
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | http://erlang-fr.org (new)
+key 0xA3D021CB               | http://worldforge.org
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Apr 17 19:31:45 2001
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f3HGwJc20700
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:58:19 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:58:19 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010417185819.A20641@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] CVS tree changes
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello everybody,
+
+We have made some small changement in the CVS tree about Snowballs :
+
+   - a directory "code/snowballs" was created. This directory contain 2
+     subdirectories : "client" & "server".
+
+   - the "code/client" files were moved to "code/snowballs/client".
+
+   - the "code/server/moves_service" was moved to "code/snowballs/server/moves_service".
+
+
+It ws a little mess and we had to clen it up, so as the client directory was
+*only* the snowballs client and the mose_service was used only for running
+a snowballs shard we decided to move these diretories in a more appropriate
+directory.
+
+Some of the txt file were not corrected yet so you migth find them quite
+innacurate ... that will be fixed tomorow ...
+
+Otherwise, the "code/server" directory will be renamed to "code/nelns"
+(standing for NeL Network Service) and will contain our services
+to run a generic shard, services that aren't part of the games
+services but are necessary to run a shard ...
+
+
+Have fune :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Apr 18 19:02:43 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3IH2gE10728
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:02:42 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f3IGx9l29385
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:09 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:08 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010418185908.A29375@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+As i told about in my preceding mail, the CVS code/server directory was renamed
+to code nelns (standing for NeL Network Services).
+
+So you will get that new structure from tonigth CVS synchronization ...
+
+
+Have a good time ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+From archer@mail.nevrax.com Tue Apr 17 12:25:08 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3HAP7E99221
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:25:07 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer@mail.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3HARDR49627
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:27:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer)
+Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:27:13 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] A small document for your consumption
+Message-ID: <20010417122712.I46670@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010413113452.A22482@nevrax.com> <20010416215943.A3226@IDEALX.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010416215943.A3226@IDEALX.com>; from thierry@mallard.com on Mon, Apr 16, 2001 at 09:59:43PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I'll answer both posts at the same time...
+
+According to Thierry Mallard:
+> Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ?
+> (dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...)
+
+There are two ways you can find out a server:
+
+1) Hardcode the IP address (then, you cannot move the server)
+2) Use DNS for dynamic IP (then, the hardcoded address is the root of the
+	DNS tree - which, hopefully, changes even less often than we will)
+
+You can't specify your "own DNS". Using that is basically the same as
+using method 1: you still have to put a server at a static IP that gives
+you off the dynamic IP.
+
+> > 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+> 
+> In plaintext ?
+
+If we assume the link has a crypt method in it, why not.
+
+Three possible methods for password submission
+
+1) Plaintext, assuming the connection has a form of crypt in place
+2) MD5/crypt password. Spoofable, since:
+	a) You can capture the MD5/crypt string
+	b) You have the client source, so can hack it to send the static
+		crypted password instead of crypting the - unknown - plaintext
+3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the
+	current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first
+	bytes of the MD5 digest.
+
+> > 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+> >    of its world service to the LS.
+> 
+> Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ?
+> (then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS)
+
+Not good. Typically, the client will connect to the world the player has
+a character he wants to play today :)
+
+However, the client may use the IP addresses of the WS to ping them and
+figure out which connection is better (when selecting its first world).
+
+> So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ?
+> -- the balancing being done at network level, not process level --
+
+The WS *is* the load balancing mechanism. Since he's aware of all FES
+up and running, and knows their load right now, he's best suited to
+determine which FES can afford to manage a new character.
+
+> I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS
+> _after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes
+> wrong, the client could goto 4 directly.
+
+Hmmm, that might be good, yes.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Tue Apr 17 21:17:01 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (flash2.flashmail.com [207.173.216.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f3HJGxE02334
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:17:00 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
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+  by flash2.flashmail.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 19:13:59 -0000
+Message-ID: <011b01c0c772$02908a00$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:10:03 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] NeL Status Update?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start =
+putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such.  =
+The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works for NeL, and =
+we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's =
+textures.
+
+Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed =
+documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will =
+work with it?
+
+Thanks,
+
+Jared Mark
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My game project has gotten to the point where I am =
+ready to=20
+start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and=20
+such.&nbsp; The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works =
+for NeL,=20
+and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for =
+it's=20
+textures.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS =
+plugin,=20
+and&nbsp;detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my =
+world, so=20
+NeL will work with it?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060--
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Apr 19 14:59:13 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3JCxCE17444
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:59:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA29923
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:55:40 +0200 (MET DST)
+Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:55:25 +0200
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <1712899108.20010419145525@teleaction.de>
+To: EagleEye <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Status Update?
+In-reply-To: <011b01c0c772$02908a00$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+References: <011b01c0c772$02908a00$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+E> My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such.  The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure
+E> works for NeL, and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's textures.
+
+E> Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work with it?
+
+As  I  noted  earlier, IMHO the  best solution for all of us, will be open
+format  of  NeL's  data files and accompanying stuff. In such a case we
+will be free to write converters from our favorite 3D tools XYZ to the NeL
+format. But I  can  predict  changes in format of NeL files to extend the
+current  set  of features. Just like DWG file format was always closed
+to  the  most  of  us and was subject of permanent changes, DXF file format was opened to everyone, so  I'm
+offer  not  too  stick  to  the  current implementation of NeL's binary file
+format,  but just invent some formal data format which will be the same for NeL as DXF
+is for DWG (let's name it NFF - NelFileFormat). In such a case Nevrax team create translator
+from  NFF  to  the  internal representation and the people outside the
+Nevrax  create translator from format XYZ to the NFF. With addition of
+new  features  and  other  format  changes  Nevrax make changes to the
+NFF2INTERNAL  and  we  make changes to the XYZ2NFF As a consequence of
+such  a  decision Nevrax will be free to change internal stuff without
+breaking  users  world's data and users always can store their data in
+some  intermediate  format.  Just imagine the situation. Nevrax add new
+really  cool features to the game and release new internal file format
+with  new  release  of engine. What happen with users worlds which are
+incompatible with new version ? I think you may guess ;)
+But  if  along  with  a  new  version  Nevrax will release a new version of
+converter  NFF2INTERNAL  the  problem  will be solved. This converter takes
+care  about  all internal changes and user's data will be on-line again
+within short period of time.
+
+What's about standard XML as a basement?  :)
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart
+
+PS.  May  be  I'm  completely  wrong  and  Nevrax  team  has a better
+solution?
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Apr 20 19:06:31 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3KH6TE26955
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:06:29 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc23 (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f3KH3HK36404
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:03:17 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005901c0c9bc$2e900940$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <011b01c0c772$02908a00$ca84b218@omhaw1.ne.home.com> <1712899108.20010419145525@teleaction.de>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Status Update?
+Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:06:03 +0200
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> E> Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed
+documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work
+with it?
+
+What you said about the NeL file format makes a lot of sense,  and it match
+what we planned to do in a near future.
+
+Actually, i'm going to describe the current data management.
+
+Today, our export plug-ins generate NeL binary files using the NeL
+serialisation system.
+The serialisation system is described in the document inserted at the end of
+the mail. This document
+will be available on the web site in the Doxygen Related Pages during the
+next week.
+
+Here is the URL of another document that describes how to build NeL 3d data
+from your 3d editor and export them in NeL binary format:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/3d_data_howto.html
+
+---
+
+NeL Files and Serialisation
+
+* Introduction
+
+This is really quite a difficult subject to write about - so this file is an
+introduction which describes the basic features and principles of our
+system.
+
+
+* How our files work in NeL
+
+The NeL files are NOT designed to be man-readable.  Interpretation and
+generation of file contents is performed by the objects that are to be read
+and written using a standardised mechanism. This mechanism was inspired by
+the system provided by Java.
+
+We use the term 'serialisable' to describe a class  that can be read from/
+written to a NeL data file.
+Counter-intuitive as it may, at first, appear, each 'serialisable' class
+supplies a single method that is used for both reading and writing.
+
+Note that the files are encoded in little-endian and that the NeL library
+code deals with conversion of endian-ness for big-endian platforms
+
+
+* Serialisation beyond files
+
+The serialisation system can be used for generating binary data buffers in
+memory (without writing the result to a file) or for packing and unpacking
+data for transfer over a LAN.
+
+
+* How it works
+
+Technically, we define a 'serialisable' class as a class that can be passed
+to IStream::serial().
+In order for a class to be serialisable it is sufficient for it to include
+the following method:
+ void serial(IStream&).
+The fact that we use a template method definition means that a serialisable
+class does not have to be derived from any other class.
+All standard types are serialisable due to a non-template prototypes shown
+below.
+STL containers of serialisable types are serialisadble
+Pointers to non-polymorphic serialisable types are serialisable.
+
+The IStream class definition looks something like this:
+
+ class IStream
+ {
+ ...
+  void serial (int&);
+  void serial (float&);
+ ...
+  template <class T> void serial (T&t)
+  {
+   t.serial (*this);
+  }
+ };
+
+
+Example:
+To make the following class serialisable:
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  int a,b;
+ };
+
+you would need to extend the class as follows:
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  int a,b;
+  void serial (IStream&istream)
+  {
+   istream.serial(a);
+   istream.serial(b);
+  }
+ };
+
+The following example shows how to serialise a more complicated data
+structure
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  void serial (IStream&);
+ };
+
+ class myclass
+ {
+  int     BaseType;
+  myFirstClass    SerialisableClass
+  std::vector< myFirstClass>  STLContainerOfSerialisableClass;
+  myFirstClass    *PointerToSerialisableClass;
+  std::vector< myFirstClass*>  STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass;
+
+  void serial (IStream&istream)
+  {
+   istream.serial(BaseType);
+   istream.serial(SerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialCont(STLContainerOfSerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialPtr(PointerToSerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialContPtr(STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass);
+  }
+ };
+
+
+
+* Dealing with cross referenced or hierarchical data
+
+If an object contains a pointer to another object in memory then the
+serialPtr() method is used to read/ write the referenced object.
+The NeL library code writes a value corresponding to the pointer to the
+serialised data, followed by the data that the pointer points to (In the
+case of a NULL pointer the value 0 is written without any following data)
+The NeL library code automatically deals with the cases where two or more
+objects reference the same object or there is a circular reference.  Each
+time a pointer is de-referenced, for writing, NeL checks against a table of
+previous pointers;  if the pointer value already exists in the table then no
+data is written.  At read time the data structures are faithfully
+reconstructed.
+
+
+* Dealing with polymorphism within cross referenced data
+
+In a nut shell, in order to un-serialise a data record that one only has an
+interface type for, one needs to store an additional identifier with the
+data record that identifies it's real type.  The mechanism for doing this is
+best shown with an example:
+
+ class IBaseClass : public IStreamable
+ {
+  // This class is an interface. It is polymorphic.
+  virtual void foo ()=0;
+
+  // It must declare it's name
+  NLMISC_DECLARE_CLASS (MyClass);
+ };
+
+ class CClassToSerialise
+ {
+  IBaseClass  *PointerToAPolymorphicClass;
+
+  void serial (IStream& s)
+  {
+   s.serialPolyPtr (PointerToAPolymorphicClass);
+  }
+ };
+
+ void main ()
+ {
+ ...
+  // The polymorphic class must be registered in the registry
+  NLMISC_REGISTER_CLASS (MyClass);
+ ...
+ }
+
+
+* Dealing with file format evolution
+
+ void serial (IStream& s)
+ {
+  // At the begining of the serial process, read/ write the version number
+of the class implementation
+
+  // In the following example - at read time 'version' contains the version
+read from the stream. At
+  // write time version code '3' is written to the stream and to the
+variable 'version'.
+  int version=s.serialVersion (3);
+
+  // Now switch the version
+  switch (version)
+  {
+  case 3:
+   // The last field added in the class
+   s.serial (LastField);
+
+   // do some different stuff at read time and write time
+   if (s.isReading())
+   {
+    // at read time
+    ...
+   }
+   else
+   {
+    // at write time
+    ...
+   }
+
+  case 2:
+   // note that the code provided as of here allows for the reading of old
+versions of the class
+
+   s.serial (Toto);
+
+   // in the case where the evolution from my version 1 implementation to my
+version 2
+   // is not simply an extension of version 1 we need to break execution
+here
+   break;
+
+  case 1:
+   s.serial (Foo);
+  case 0:
+   s.serial (Truc);
+  }
+
+ }
+
+
+* NeL File Headers
+
+The objective of NeL file headers is to verify that a file is in the right
+format before attempting to interpret the contents.
+
+ // The NeL team use the following advise serialise a file this way:
+ void CFileRootClass::serial (IStream& s)
+ {
+  // First write / read-check the header
+  s.serialCheck ((uint32)'_LEN');
+  s.serialCheck ((uint32)'HSEM');
+
+  // This code write / read-check the header 'NEL_MESH' at the beginning of
+the file.
+  // If the check fails, serialCheck throws the EInvalidDataStream
+exception.
+ }
+
+* Good examples to look at:
+
+ include/nel/misc/stream.h   // Stream base classes
+ class CTileBank in src/3d/tile_bank.cpp // Good example of file format
+evolution
+ class CAnimation in src/3d/animation.cpp // Good example of polymorphism
+
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+From brenden@rcsis.com Thu Apr 26 17:34:56 2001
+Received: from smtp.rcsis.com (smtp.rcsis.com [208.45.228.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3QFYsX23255
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:34:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from brenden@rcsis.com)
+Received: from brenden2001towe (082.dsl6660144.DHCP.rcsis.com [66.60.144.82])
+	by smtp.rcsis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09486
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:11:26 -0700
+Message-ID: <002601c0ce64$636e5340$52903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+From: "Brenden Towey" <brenden@rcsis.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] A small document for your consumption
+Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:20:12 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+>   Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS
+>   spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client.
+>   However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location.
+>
+> 3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the
+> current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first
+> bytes of the MD5 digest.
+
+Would #3 solve the login & password hacking problem?
+
+
+>Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS,
+>using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on
+two
+>physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD'
+message
+>serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+>name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+>to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+
+
+Ok, I don't understand this.  Why would one person or company want to do
+this?  What's the advantage to having a login service in one location and a
+world service in another?  Why not just co-locate all your services behind
+one firewall?
+
+Peace,
+Brenden
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Apr 26 19:57:09 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3QHv9X24791
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:57:09 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc23 (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f3QHrmH35941
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:53:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000a01c0ce7a$418d86e0$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:56:44 +0200
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
+Subject: [Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+The good news:
+
+We have released the source code of some of our plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1.
+
+The sources available are:
+
+* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL binary meshes, animations, skeleton =
+etc..
+* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a 3dsmax PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh.
+* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks in 3dsmax.
+
+You can find thoses plugins in the CVS tree in nel/tools/3d/plugins_max
+
+The bad news:
+
+1) One of our plugin, the landscape painter, is not in this package =
+because it is based=20
+on Discreet EditPatch source code, and we can't distribute this modified =
+source code.
+
+2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked to the 3DSMax SDK (which is not =
+Gnu GPL)=20
+and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone distributing plug-ins in binary =
+form will be in=20
+breach of the Gnu GPL.
+
+In English than means that you shouldn't distribute the plug-ins as =
+binaries.
+You are, of course, free to distribute the source code.
+
+Regards,
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The good news:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have released the source code of =
+some of our=20
+plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The sources available are:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL =
+binary meshes,=20
+animations, skeleton etc..</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a =
+3dsmax=20
+PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks =
+in=20
+3dsmax.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can find thoses plugins in the CVS =
+tree in=20
+nel/tools/3d/plugins_max</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The bad news:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) One of our plugin, the landscape =
+painter, is not=20
+in this package because it is based </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on Discreet EditPatch source code, and =
+we can't=20
+distribute this modified source code.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked =
+to the 3DSMax=20
+SDK (which is not Gnu GPL) </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone =
+distributing=20
+plug-ins in binary form will be in </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>breach of the Gnu GPL.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In English than means that you =
+shouldn't distribute=20
+the plug-ins as binaries.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are, of course, free to distribute =
+the source=20
+code.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cyril=20
+Corvazier<BR>Lead 3d programmer<BR>Nevrax =
+France<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00--
+
+
+From archer@mail.nevrax.com Fri Apr 27 17:18:46 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f3RFIgX32466
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:18:43 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer@mail.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) id f3RFFH348142
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:15:17 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer)
+Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:15:17 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] A small document for your consumption
+Message-ID: <20010427171517.I39659@nevrax.com>
+References: <002601c0ce64$636e5340$52903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <002601c0ce64$636e5340$52903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>; from brenden@rcsis.com on Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 08:20:12AM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Brenden Towey:
+> From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+> > 3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the
+> > current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first
+> > bytes of the MD5 digest.
+> 
+> Would #3 solve the login & password hacking problem?
+
+More or less. However, most of the hacking problems I've seen these days
+on MMOGs do not involve a spoofed server or anything else. They're all
+revolving around:
+
+1) A scam aimed at getting your login and password
+	(we have this incredible powerleveling service. Send us $30 and
+	 your password and we'll have you level 50 in a month)
+
+2) A trojan (last one on EQ pretending to be an 'undetectable macro
+   program') that intercept the login/password pair when you *type them*.
+
+Still, it doesn't hurt to make a MD5 challenge. If someone can spoof
+you into believing you're talking to the server, the usual crypto layer
+that protects your connection against sniffing will not protect your
+password (something some web designers conveniently forget, saying that
+once you're using https:// urls, you can send you password in clear to
+the web).
+
+> >serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+> >name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+> >to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+> 
+> 
+> Ok, I don't understand this.  Why would one person or company want to do
+> this?  What's the advantage to having a login service in one location and a
+> world service in another?  Why not just co-locate all your services behind
+> one firewall?
+
+Bandwidth/Lag/Security issues.
+
+Bandwidth is the first, and usually the less important one. But when you
+start talking multiple OC12 links for your bandwidth consumption, you
+quickly have limits on where you can locate your worlds. It is a lot easier
+to negociate several locations with OC4 for each than say "I need a place
+with two OC12".
+
+Lag is another one. All the world is not the states... tell it to the Aussies
+who ranted and screamed till they finally got one Ultima Online server
+down under. We're doing our best to make lag irrelevant, but given the
+choice of playing on a server with 500 ms ping and a server with 100 ms
+ping times... The experience with the latter will always be a *lot*
+smoother.
+
+And finally security. Not network security, I'm talking real security.
+Despite every premium paid, what happens if your server room catches
+fire, and despite generous smothering of Halon, all your servers are
+burnt to a nice crispy taste? Sure, the insurance will pay you lots of
+money. But your players will no longer be there.
+
+Spreading your servers around makes sense on several points.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+From bebarker@meginc.com Tue May  1 05:43:07 2001
+Received: from sioux.meginc.com (Sioux.meginc.com [207.246.76.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f413h7X67223
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 1 May 2001 05:43:07 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:brandon@[207.246.76.62])
+	by sioux.meginc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA98000
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:39:58 -0400 (EDT)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Brandon Barker <bebarker@meginc.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:44:36 -0400
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <01043022443600.01415@localhost.localdomain>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] NURBS
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Not sure how much this could help Nevrax but here it is:
+
+http://openNURBS.org
+
+As seen on homepage:
+
+The openNURBS Initiative provides CAD, CAM, CAE, and computer graphics 
+software developers the tools to accurately transfer 3-D geometry between 
+applications.
+ 
+ The tools provided by openNURBS include:
+
+A file format specification and documentation.
+ C++ source code libraries to read and write the file format. Windows, Mac, 
+and Linux are supported.
+ Quality assurance and revision control.
+ Various supporting libraries and utilities.
+ Technical support. 
+
+Unlike other open development initiatives, alliances, or consortia:
+
+Commercial use is encouraged.
+ The tools, support, and membership are free.
+ There are no restrictions. Neither copyright nor copyleft restrictions apply.
+ No contribution of effort or technology is required from the members, 
+although it is encouraged.
+ 
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri May  4 12:03:31 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f44A3UX94712
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 May 2001 12:03:30 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f44A03H03164
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 May 2001 12:00:03 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f44A03Q06292
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 4 May 2001 12:00:03 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:00:03 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010504120003.A6267@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] New NeL's network interfaces and code ...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello everybody,
+
+
+This week, we commited the new NeL network library and the new
+servives (NeLNS) using it.
+
+This new implementation of the network code is actualy completly 
+incompatible with Snowballs (client and move service) so you should
+not update your code if you are playing with it. That work should be
+done in a near future ...
+
+We've just put on-line a new version of the NeL network library.  
+Please note that this is a COMPLETE REWRITE. 
+
+We have re-structured the reception code to be multi-threaded and 
+re-designed the code layers to better correspond to the requirements
+of our product development teams. We have also put on-line updated
+versions of the NeL network services that are compatible with the
+new network implementation.
+
+For details please see the "under construction" document 
+<URL:http://www.nevrax.org/docs/nelnet.php3> which describes the 
+basic architecture in more detail, or take a look at the NeLNS
+service implementations. Please note that we have not yet updated
+the examples to comply with the new library.
+
+Have fun,
+
+
+Daniel Miller & Cedric.
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri May 11 11:40:24 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f4B9eNX50180
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 11 May 2001 11:40:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f4B9apI17303
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 11 May 2001 11:36:51 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f4B9ap520396
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 11 May 2001 11:36:51 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:36:51 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010511113650.A20369@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Modification to the interface of IStream
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Everybody,
+
+
+The method that streams container classes (IStream::serialCont) has been
+extended to support serialisation of std::map and strd::multimap.
+This has rendered IStream::serialMap obsolete.  IStream::serialMap is now
+private.
+
+
+Have fun,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Mon Jun 11 11:06:14 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f5B96DX97043
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:06:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 18680 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2001 08:59:47 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 11 Jun 2001 08:59:47 -0000
+Message-ID: <015801c0f255$36e47e20$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:02:17 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball for Win32
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball =
+demo application?=20
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish =
+a Win32=20
+version of the Snowball demo application? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(<A href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)</FONT><=
+/DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0--
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jun 11 17:32:48 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5BFWmX98905
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:32:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5BFSqI59038
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+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f5BFSqj01611
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:28:52 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:28:52 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball for Win32
+Message-ID: <20010611172851.A1589@nevrax.com>
+References: <015801c0f255$36e47e20$024510ac@valerio>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <015801c0f255$36e47e20$024510ac@valerio>; from tanis@digi-web.it on Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 11:02:17AM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Valerio,
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball
+> demo application? 
+
+Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit.  We're planning to put
+together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D
+code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there
+we'll look at releasing a binary.  I hope this helps.
+
+Regards,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Jun 13 11:25:43 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5D9PhX12207;
+	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:25:43 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5D9LjI82434;
+	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:21:45 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f5D9LjJ29146;
+	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:21:45 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:21:45 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: snowballs@nevrax.org
+Cc: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010613112145.A29066@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Itsalive is dead
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all,
+
+Itsalive decide to give up (due to a hardware problem).
+
+There'll be a new posting as soon as it's resurected.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+PS: Itsalive is our Snowballs server ...
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Wed Jun 13 12:30:30 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f5DAUSX12559
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:30:28 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 3034 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2001 10:23:47 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 13 Jun 2001 10:23:47 -0000
+Message-ID: <013701c0f3f3$525aaa90$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <015801c0f255$36e47e20$024510ac@valerio> <20010611172851.A1589@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball for Win32
+Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:26:34 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I talked to Ace and I'll wait for the new version of Snowball to be
+released. Thanks :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:28 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball for Win32
+
+
+>
+> Hi Valerio,
+>
+> Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> > Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball
+> > demo application?
+>
+> Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit.  We're planning to
+put
+> together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D
+> code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there
+> we'll look at releasing a binary.  I hope this helps.
+>
+> Regards,
+>
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From alfred@mazuma.net.au Thu Jun 14 15:45:55 2001
+Received: from mailin8.bigpond.com (juicer39.bigpond.com [139.134.6.96])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5EDjrX21952
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:45:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from alfred@mazuma.net.au)
+Received: from mazuma.net.au ([144.135.24.78]) by
+          mailin8.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP
+          id GEXAB000.5AG for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:47:24 +1000 
+Received: from CPE-61-9-148-79.vic.bigpond.net.au ([61.9.148.79]) by bwmam04.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V2.9d 8329/6156695); 14 Jun 2001 23:42:26
+Message-ID: <3B28C08A.1020403@mazuma.net.au>
+Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:47:54 +1000
+From: Alfred <alfred@mazuma.net.au>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-15mdk i686; en-US; rv:0.9.1) Gecko/20010607
+X-Accept-Language: en-us
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Hello and a Question
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hey guys,
+	My name is Alfred and my "credentials" are that I am the "father" of 
+admin mod (http://www.adminmod.org) along with being a devloper for some 
+other hl based mods (firearms for eg).
+	I work as a research engineer into tactical networks, so I have a fair 
+bit of experience with comms effects in harsh conditions (i.e the 
+general internet).
+
+	Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed 
+architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as 
+CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of 
+support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am 
+not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make 
+your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and 
+authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with.
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Fri Jun 15 18:05:30 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5FG5UX32050
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:05:30 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5FG1VI20688
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:01:31 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:56:21 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEOECAAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000"
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] A bit of news
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+For anyone who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at
+Nevrax.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel.
+
+
+
+================================================
+NeL Development Team Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap
+================================================
+
+Summer 2001:
+============
+
+The teams are working hard on the technology code required for an important
+internal milestone, for the Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for
+next September.  The features listed under 'Coming Soon' (below) are on the
+todo list for the internal milestone and will become available through the
+summer.
+During this period much of the code is being developed under Windows 2000
+(predominantly AI and 3D) and is liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/
+Linux testing.
+Linux patches/ bug fixes will be readily accepted.
+
+
+Autumn 2001:
+============
+Once the internal milestone is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL
+development teams will be reduced and we will open up discussion about
+further direction, specification improvemens and so on.
+
+
+Snowballs:
+==========
+
+Snowballs is going to be re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the
+advancements and changes of direction in the NeL library since January.
+There'll be postings as development progresses.
+We intend to release a binary once the new code has been put together.
+
+
+Net:
+====
+
+Done so far:
+------------
+- Layer 0 (Data transfer layer) implementation
+- Layer 1 (Data block management layer) implementation
+- Layer 2 (Serialised data management layer) implementation
+- Layer 3 (Message management layer) implementation & examples
+- Layer 4 (Inter-Service message addressing layer) implementation & examples
+- The 'Service' Framework implementation & examples
+- System services (Naming Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion,
+API & examples
+- Login system (Stand alone program, client API) implementation & samples
+
+In development:
+---------------
+- Shard Administration system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client)
+implementation
+- Improved debugging tools for services in a shard
+
+Coming Soon:
+------------
+- Backup Service
+- Account manager (stand alone)
+
+On the list for later:
+----------------------
+- Robustness testing and improvement (robustness to common attacks)
+- System stress testing and stressed performance improvement
+- Profiling and optimisation
+- Tuning of GNU/ Linux for NeL shard servers
+
+
+3D:
+===
+
+Done:
+-----
+- A basic sub set of the materials (missing bump mapping, etc)
+- Scenery rendering - Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise
+and water
+- Scenery rendering - Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based
+culling
+- Character and object animation and rendering with exception of IK
+- 3DSMax Plugins and exporters for generating the data for the above systems
+
+In development:
+---------------
+- Light maps for indoor scenes
+- A particle and effects engine
+
+Coming Soon:
+------------
+- Further materials
+- Multi resolution mesh support
+- Adaptive level of detail management system
+- Support for super-simplified meshes in the distance
+- Geometric noise in the landscape
+- The first version of the audio engine (low spec)
+- Portal based object culling for indoor scenes
+
+Coming Later:
+-------------
+- Water
+- Real time shadows (cast be characters and objects)
+- Blend shapes (also called morphing) - for things like facial animation
+- Further material types (bump maps, etc)
+- Inverse kinematics (a very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)
+- Dynamic lighting
+- A higher spec audio engine
+
+On the list for later:
+----------------------
+- Optimisation
+- Optimisation for NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)
+- Better model for generating low-detail MRM meshes
+
+
+PACS (Pathfinding And Collision System):
+========================================
+
+In develoment:
+--------------
+- System for generating collision and path finding information from outdoor
+scenery
+- Path finding system
+- Object/ Object collision system
+- Object/ Landscape collision system
+- System for adapting character and object positions to landscape
+tesselation
+
+Coming soon:
+------------
+- System for generating collision and path finding information for indoor
+scenery
+
+
+AI:
+===
+
+Done:
+-----
+- Distributed autonomous agent framework infrastructure
+- Run time agent definition scripting system
+- Tool set for creation of hard-coded agents
+- Finite state automaton plugin for agent framework
+- 'Operator' based action planning plugin for the agent framework
+
+In Development:
+---------------
+- Agent memory
+- 'Classifier' based learning plugin for teh agent framework
+- Priority and contribution management in operators
+
+
+Misc:
+=====
+
+Done so far:
+------------
+- A huge number of miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes,
+constants and functions that everybody at Nevrax swears by.
+Further development:
+- Development of the 'misc' library is chaotic - as little bits of
+functionality are written to left or right they tend to be added.
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
+class=3D153144915-15062001>For anyone=20
+who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at=20
+Nevrax.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
+class=3D153144915-15062001>Regards to=20
+all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>Daniel.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>NeL =
+Development Team=20
+Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT=20
+face=3DArial>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
+New"><?xml:namespace=20
+prefix =3D o ns =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"=20
+/><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Summer =
+2001:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>The teams are =
+working hard=20
+on the technology code required for an important internal milestone, for =
+the=20
+Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for next September.<SPAN=20
+style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>The features listed under =
+'Coming Soon'=20
+(below) are on the todo list for the internal milestone and will become=20
+available through the summer.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>During this =
+period much of=20
+the code is being developed under Windows 2000 (predominantly AI and 3D) =
+and is=20
+liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/ Linux testing. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Linux =
+patches/ bug fixes=20
+will be readily accepted.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Autumn =
+2001:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></F=
+ONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Once the =
+internal milestone=20
+is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL development teams will be =
+reduced=20
+and we will open up discussion about further direction, specification=20
+improvemens and so on.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Snowballs:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></=
+DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Snowballs is =
+going to be=20
+re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the advancements and =
+changes of=20
+direction in the NeL library since January.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>There'll be =
+postings as=20
+development progresses.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>We intend to =
+release a=20
+binary once the new code has been put together.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Net:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so =
+far:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 0 =
+(Data transfer=20
+layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 1 =
+(Data block=20
+management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 2 =
+(Serialised data=20
+management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 3 =
+(Message=20
+management layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 4 =
+(Inter-Service=20
+message addressing layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The =
+'Service' Framework=20
+implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System =
+services (Naming=20
+Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion, API &amp;=20
+examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Login =
+system (Stand alone=20
+program, client API) implementation &amp; samples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20
+development:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Shard =
+Administration=20
+system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client) implementation=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Improved =
+debugging tools=20
+for services in a shard</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+Soon:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Backup=20
+Service</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Account =
+manager (stand=20
+alone)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list =
+for=20
+later:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Robustness =
+testing and=20
+improvement (robustness to common attacks)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System =
+stress testing and=20
+stressed performance improvement</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Profiling =
+and=20
+optimisation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tuning of =
+GNU/ Linux for=20
+NeL shard servers</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>3D:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A basic sub =
+set of the=20
+materials (missing bump mapping, etc) </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Scenery =
+rendering -=20
+Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise and =
+water</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- =
+Scenery rendering -=20
+Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based culling<SPAN=20
+style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Character =
+and object=20
+animation and rendering with exception of IK</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 3DSMax =
+Plugins and=20
+exporters for generating the data for the above systems</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20
+development:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Light maps =
+for indoor=20
+scenes</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A particle =
+and effects=20
+engine</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+Soon:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further=20
+materials</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
+FR"><FONT=20
+size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Multi resolution mesh=20
+support<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Adaptive =
+level of detail=20
+management system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Support for =
+
+super-simplified meshes in the distance</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Geometric =
+noise in the=20
+landscape</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The first =
+version of the=20
+audio engine (low spec)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Portal =
+based object=20
+culling for indoor scenes</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+Later:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>-------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+Water</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Real time =
+shadows (cast=20
+be characters and objects)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Blend =
+shapes (also called=20
+morphing) - for things like facial animation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further =
+material types=20
+(bump maps, etc)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Inverse =
+kinematics (a=20
+very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Dynamic=20
+lighting</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A higher =
+spec audio=20
+engine</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list =
+for=20
+later:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+Optimisation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+Optimisation for=20
+NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Better =
+model for=20
+generating low-detail MRM meshes</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>PACS =
+(Pathfinding And=20
+Collision System):</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV=
+>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In =
+develoment:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>--------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+generating=20
+collision and path finding information from outdoor scenery</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Path =
+finding=20
+system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
+FR"><FONT=20
+size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Object/ Object collision=20
+system<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Object/ =
+Landscape=20
+collision system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+adapting=20
+character and object positions to landscape tesselation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+soon:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+generating=20
+collision and path finding information for indoor scenery</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>AI:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Distributed =
+autonomous=20
+agent framework infrastructure</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Run time =
+agent definition=20
+scripting system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tool set =
+for creation of=20
+hard-coded agents </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Finite =
+state automaton=20
+plugin for agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 'Operator' =
+based action=20
+planning plugin for the agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2>In =
+Development<SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>---------------</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Agent =
+memory</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+'Classifier' based=20
+learning plugin for teh agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Priority =
+and contribution=20
+management in operators</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Misc:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so =
+far:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A huge =
+number of=20
+miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes, constants and =
+functions=20
+that everybody at Nevrax swears by.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Further=20
+development:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Development =
+of the 'misc'=20
+library is chaotic - as little bits of functionality are written to left =
+or=20
+right they tend to be added.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier =
+New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Jun 15 19:39:21 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5FHdHX32526
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:39:18 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5FHZGI21589
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:35:16 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <010b01c0f5c1$8a36e300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3B28C08A.1020403@mazuma.net.au>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Hello and a Question
+Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:35:16 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed
+> architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as
+> CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of
+> support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am
+> not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make
+> your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and
+> authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with.
+
+As you point out, DCOM isn't portable so we ruled it out :)
+As for CORBA: Having worked a fair bit with it while at college, I concluded
+that it lacked some of the functionality that we wanted. For example, we can
+have several instances of the same service running simultaneously on our
+shard and the naming service can either return us a list of all of them or
+select the least loaded one (which CORBA cannot do). What's more, we found
+that CORBA was excessively heavy for our requirements, which only require a
+corner of the system. Our naming service only took a couple of days to
+develop and remains entirely open to expansion, adaptation or tuning to keep
+up with NeL's evolving needs.
+
+We looked in depth into the ACE and TAO library (Real-time CORBA with TAO
+(The ACE ORB)). The webpage seems down www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html,
+but the lib is absolutely huge... one hour at least of compilation. We
+didn't want to be dependent on such a large library just for a naming
+service and a communication protocol.
+
+Regards,
+Vianney
+
+
+
+From bebarker@meginc.com Sat Jun 16 19:35:59 2001
+Received: from sioux.meginc.com (Sioux.meginc.com [207.246.76.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5GHZvX42138
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 19:35:57 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain ([207.246.76.86])
+	by sioux.meginc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA95584
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:33:38 -0400 (EDT)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Brandon Barker <bebarker@meginc.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:29:08 -0400
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2]
+References: <200106161001.f5GA16X39930@www.nevrax.org>
+In-Reply-To: <200106161001.f5GA16X39930@www.nevrax.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <01061613290801.10787@localhost.localdomain>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The game will still be available for Mac OS X,  Linux, and maybe even other 
+operating systems, correct?  After all, the user could just compile the 
+sources and buy the game at a store with the data files and play it on his 
+system of choice.
+
+On Saturday 16 June 2001 06:01, you wrote:
+> Send Nel mailing list submissions to
+> 	nel@nevrax.org
+>
+> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
+> 	http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
+> 	nel-request@nevrax.org
+>
+> You can reach the person managing the list at
+> 	nel-admin@nevrax.org
+>
+> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
+> than "Re: Contents of Nel digest..."
+>
+>
+> Today's Topics:
+>
+>   1. A bit of news (Daniel Miller)
+>   2. Re: Hello and a Question (Vianney Lecroart)
+>
+> --__--__--
+>
+> Message: 1
+> From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:56:21 +0200
+> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000"
+> Subject: [Nel] A bit of news
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+>
+> C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+>
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
+> Content-Type: text/plain;
+> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+>
+> For anyone who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at
+> Nevrax.
+>
+> Regards to all,
+> Daniel.
+>
+>
+>
+> ================================================
+> NeL Development Team Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap
+> ================================================
+>
+> Summer 2001:
+> ============
+>
+> The teams are working hard on the technology code required for an important
+> internal milestone, for the Massively Multiuser Universe in development,
+> for next September.  The features listed under 'Coming Soon' (below) are on
+> the todo list for the internal milestone and will become available through
+> the summer.
+> During this period much of the code is being developed under Windows 2000
+> (predominantly AI and 3D) and is liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/
+> Linux testing.
+> Linux patches/ bug fixes will be readily accepted.
+>
+>
+> Autumn 2001:
+> ============
+> Once the internal milestone is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL
+> development teams will be reduced and we will open up discussion about
+> further direction, specification improvemens and so on.
+>
+>
+> Snowballs:
+> ==========
+>
+> Snowballs is going to be re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the
+> advancements and changes of direction in the NeL library since January.
+> There'll be postings as development progresses.
+> We intend to release a binary once the new code has been put together.
+>
+>
+> Net:
+> ====
+>
+> Done so far:
+> ------------
+> - Layer 0 (Data transfer layer) implementation
+> - Layer 1 (Data block management layer) implementation
+> - Layer 2 (Serialised data management layer) implementation
+> - Layer 3 (Message management layer) implementation & examples
+> - Layer 4 (Inter-Service message addressing layer) implementation &
+> examples - The 'Service' Framework implementation & examples
+> - System services (Naming Service, Time Service, Log Service)
+> implementaion, API & examples
+> - Login system (Stand alone program, client API) implementation & samples
+>
+> In development:
+> ---------------
+> - Shard Administration system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client)
+> implementation
+> - Improved debugging tools for services in a shard
+>
+> Coming Soon:
+> ------------
+> - Backup Service
+> - Account manager (stand alone)
+>
+> On the list for later:
+> ----------------------
+> - Robustness testing and improvement (robustness to common attacks)
+> - System stress testing and stressed performance improvement
+> - Profiling and optimisation
+> - Tuning of GNU/ Linux for NeL shard servers
+>
+>
+> 3D:
+> ===
+>
+> Done:
+> -----
+> - A basic sub set of the materials (missing bump mapping, etc)
+> - Scenery rendering - Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric
+> noise and water
+> - Scenery rendering - Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based
+> culling
+> - Character and object animation and rendering with exception of IK
+> - 3DSMax Plugins and exporters for generating the data for the above
+> systems
+>
+> In development:
+> ---------------
+> - Light maps for indoor scenes
+> - A particle and effects engine
+>
+> Coming Soon:
+> ------------
+> - Further materials
+> - Multi resolution mesh support
+> - Adaptive level of detail management system
+> - Support for super-simplified meshes in the distance
+> - Geometric noise in the landscape
+> - The first version of the audio engine (low spec)
+> - Portal based object culling for indoor scenes
+>
+> Coming Later:
+> -------------
+> - Water
+> - Real time shadows (cast be characters and objects)
+> - Blend shapes (also called morphing) - for things like facial animation
+> - Further material types (bump maps, etc)
+> - Inverse kinematics (a very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)
+> - Dynamic lighting
+> - A higher spec audio engine
+>
+> On the list for later:
+> ----------------------
+> - Optimisation
+> - Optimisation for NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)
+> - Better model for generating low-detail MRM meshes
+>
+>
+> PACS (Pathfinding And Collision System):
+> ========================================
+>
+> In develoment:
+> --------------
+> - System for generating collision and path finding information from outdoor
+> scenery
+> - Path finding system
+> - Object/ Object collision system
+> - Object/ Landscape collision system
+> - System for adapting character and object positions to landscape
+> tesselation
+>
+> Coming soon:
+> ------------
+> - System for generating collision and path finding information for indoor
+> scenery
+>
+>
+> AI:
+> ===
+>
+> Done:
+> -----
+> - Distributed autonomous agent framework infrastructure
+> - Run time agent definition scripting system
+> - Tool set for creation of hard-coded agents
+> - Finite state automaton plugin for agent framework
+> - 'Operator' based action planning plugin for the agent framework
+>
+> In Development:
+> ---------------
+> - Agent memory
+> - 'Classifier' based learning plugin for teh agent framework
+> - Priority and contribution management in operators
+>
+>
+> Misc:
+> =====
+>
+> Done so far:
+> ------------
+> - A huge number of miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes,
+> constants and functions that everybody at Nevrax swears by.
+> Further development:
+> - Development of the 'misc' library is chaotic - as little bits of
+> functionality are written to left or right they tend to be added.
+>
+>
+>
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
+> Content-Type: text/html;
+> 	charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+>
+> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+> <HTML><HEAD>
+> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+> charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
+> <BODY>
+> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>For anyone=20
+> who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at=20
+> Nevrax.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>Regards to=20
+> all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>Daniel.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+>=
+> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+>= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>NeL =
+> Development Team=20
+> Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT=20
+> face=3DArial>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+>= =3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
+> New"><?xml:namespace=20
+> prefix =3D o ns =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"=20
+> /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Summer =
+> 2001:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>The teams are =
+> working hard=20
+> on the technology code required for an important internal milestone, for =
+> the=20
+> Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for next September.<SPAN=20
+> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>The features listed under =
+> 'Coming Soon'=20
+> (below) are on the todo list for the internal milestone and will become=20
+> available through the summer.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>During this =
+> period much of=20
+> the code is being developed under Windows 2000 (predominantly AI and 3D) =
+> and is=20
+> liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/ Linux testing. </FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Linux =
+> patches/ bug fixes=20
+> will be readily accepted.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Autumn =
+> 2001:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></F=
+> ONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Once the =
+> internal milestone=20
+> is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL development teams will be =
+> reduced=20
+> and we will open up discussion about further direction, specification=20
+> improvemens and so on.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New"><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2>Snowballs:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></=
+> DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Snowballs is =
+> going to be=20
+> re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the advancements and =
+> changes of=20
+> direction in the NeL library since January.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>There'll be =
+> postings as=20
+> development progresses.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>We intend to =
+> release a=20
+> binary once the new code has been put together.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2>Net:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so =
+> far:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 0 =
+> (Data transfer=20
+> layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 1 =
+> (Data block=20
+> management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 2 =
+> (Serialised data=20
+> management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 3 =
+> (Message=20
+> management layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 4 =
+> (Inter-Service=20
+> message addressing layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The =
+> 'Service' Framework=20
+> implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System =
+> services (Naming=20
+> Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion, API &amp;=20
+> examples</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Login =
+> system (Stand alone=20
+> program, client API) implementation &amp; samples</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20
+> development:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Shard =
+> Administration=20
+> system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client) implementation=20
+> </FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Improved =
+> debugging tools=20
+> for services in a shard</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+> Soon:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Backup=20
+> Service</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Account =
+> manager (stand=20
+> alone)</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list =
+> for=20
+> later:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Robustness =
+> testing and=20
+> improvement (robustness to common attacks)</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System =
+> stress testing and=20
+> stressed performance improvement</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Profiling =
+> and=20
+> optimisation</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tuning of =
+> GNU/ Linux for=20
+> NeL shard servers</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2>3D:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A basic sub =
+> set of the=20
+> materials (missing bump mapping, etc) </FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Scenery =
+> rendering -=20
+> Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise and =
+> water</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- =
+> Scenery rendering -=20
+> Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based culling<SPAN=20
+> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Character =
+> and object=20
+> animation and rendering with exception of IK</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 3DSMax =
+> Plugins and=20
+> exporters for generating the data for the above systems</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20
+> development:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Light maps =
+> for indoor=20
+> scenes</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A particle =
+> and effects=20
+> engine</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+> Soon:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further=20
+> materials</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
+> FR"><FONT=20
+> size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Multi resolution mesh=20
+> support<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Adaptive =
+> level of detail=20
+> management system</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Support for =
+>
+> super-simplified meshes in the distance</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Geometric =
+> noise in the=20
+> landscape</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The first =
+> version of the=20
+> audio engine (low spec)</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Portal =
+> based object=20
+> culling for indoor scenes</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+> Later:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>-------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+> Water</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Real time =
+> shadows (cast=20
+> be characters and objects)</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Blend =
+> shapes (also called=20
+> morphing) - for things like facial animation</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further =
+> material types=20
+> (bump maps, etc)</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Inverse =
+> kinematics (a=20
+> very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Dynamic=20
+> lighting</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A higher =
+> spec audio=20
+> engine</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list =
+> for=20
+> later:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+> Optimisation</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+> Optimisation for=20
+> NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Better =
+> model for=20
+> generating low-detail MRM meshes</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>PACS =
+> (Pathfinding And=20
+> Collision System):</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+>= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV=
+>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In =
+> develoment:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>--------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+> generating=20
+> collision and path finding information from outdoor scenery</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Path =
+> finding=20
+> system</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
+> FR"><FONT=20
+> size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Object/ Object collision=20
+> system<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Object/ =
+> Landscape=20
+> collision system</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+> adapting=20
+> character and object positions to landscape tesselation</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+> soon:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+> generating=20
+> collision and path finding information for indoor scenery</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2>AI:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Distributed =
+> autonomous=20
+> agent framework infrastructure</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Run time =
+> agent definition=20
+> scripting system</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tool set =
+> for creation of=20
+> hard-coded agents </FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Finite =
+> state automaton=20
+> plugin for agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 'Operator' =
+> based action=20
+> planning plugin for the agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2>In =
+> Development<SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
+> class=3D153144915-15062001>---------------</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Agent =
+> memory</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+> 'Classifier' based=20
+> learning plugin for teh agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Priority =
+> and contribution=20
+> management in operators</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2>Misc:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+> size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so =
+> far:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+> face=3D"Courier New"=20
+> size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A huge =
+> number of=20
+> miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes, constants and =
+> functions=20
+> that everybody at Nevrax swears by.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Further=20
+> development:</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Development =
+> of the 'misc'=20
+> library is chaotic - as little bits of functionality are written to left =
+> or=20
+> right they tend to be added.</FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+> face=3D"Courier =
+> New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BODY></HTML>
+>
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000--
+>
+>
+> --__--__--
+>
+> Message: 2
+> From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] Hello and a Question
+> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:35:16 +0200
+> charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+>
+> > Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed
+> > architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as
+> > CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of
+> > support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am
+> > not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make
+> > your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and
+> > authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away
+> > with.
+>
+> As you point out, DCOM isn't portable so we ruled it out :)
+> As for CORBA: Having worked a fair bit with it while at college, I
+> concluded that it lacked some of the functionality that we wanted. For
+> example, we can have several instances of the same service running
+> simultaneously on our shard and the naming service can either return us a
+> list of all of them or select the least loaded one (which CORBA cannot do).
+> What's more, we found that CORBA was excessively heavy for our
+> requirements, which only require a corner of the system. Our naming service
+> only took a couple of days to develop and remains entirely open to
+> expansion, adaptation or tuning to keep up with NeL's evolving needs.
+>
+> We looked in depth into the ACE and TAO library (Real-time CORBA with TAO
+> (The ACE ORB)). The webpage seems down www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html,
+> but the lib is absolutely huge... one hour at least of compilation. We
+> didn't want to be dependent on such a large library just for a naming
+> service and a communication protocol.
+>
+> Regards,
+> Vianney
+>
+>
+>
+>
+> --__--__--
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+>
+> End of Nel Digest_______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Mon Jun 18 12:44:55 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5IAitX53981
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:44:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:40:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:35:43 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEOICAAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Importance: Normal
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+Subject: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Within Nevrax we are planning to develop clients for Linux (tested on PCs)
+and Microsoft Windows.  This said, we will be happy to provide support to
+anyone who feels like porting it to Mac OS X or any other platform.
+
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+>The game will still be available for Mac OS X,  Linux, and maybe even other
+>operating systems, correct?  After all, the user could just compile the
+>sources and buy the game at a store with the data files and play it on his
+>system of choice.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Jun 20 19:26:05 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5KHQ5X71288
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:26:05 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:22:02 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:22:02 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010620192202.A9001@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+
+
+Network
+-------
+
+- Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers.
+  The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages
+  have been processed.
+
+- Improved responsiveness of API for naming service
+  Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming
+  service.  They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered
+  with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the
+  API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses.
+
+- The message type compression has been dissabled
+  An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that
+  were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32
+  value could be sent in place of the string.
+  This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has
+  been removed.
+  An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later.
+
+- New example for using 'login system'
+  It can be found in the samples directory
+
+- Improved performance of log messages
+  Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+  numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+
+- On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+  performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+  console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine)
+
+- New debugging aid
+  There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in
+  situation and for playing back the input to the same application running
+  stand alone.  This allows the application to be traced, etc.
+  The system will go up on CVS within the next few days
+
+
+PACS
+----
+
+- First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only
+  at the moment.
+
+
+3D
+--
+
+- The header file have moved!
+  The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their
+  respective source files)
+  The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d
+
+- System for generating object positions on the landscape completed
+  This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position
+  within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch
+  tesselation.  Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground
+  regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at.
+
+- In development...
+  Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the
+  editor for the particle system are in development.
+
+
+Audio
+-----
+
+- Work is starting on the audio library.
+  During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and
+  a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL
+  diver in the autumn.
+
+
+AI
+--
+
+- Silence from the AI team
+  The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now.  There will be
+  little news from them for a few months
+
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Jun 20 19:36:44 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5KHahX71392
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:32:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:32:40 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...
+Message-ID: <20010620193240.A31397@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010620192202.A9001@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010620192202.A9001@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 07:22:02PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> 
+> - Improved performance of log messages
+>   Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+>   numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+> 
+> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+>   performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+>   console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine)
+
+Damn ! the preceding sentences are the french translation about the "Improved
+performance of log messages" ... sorry about that.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From alfred@mazuma.net.au Thu Jun 21 13:52:45 2001
+Received: from mailin7.bigpond.com (juicer38.bigpond.com [139.134.6.95])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5LBqhX76954
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+Message-ID: <3B31DF13.2070905@mazuma.net.au>
+Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:48:35 +1000
+From: Alfred <alfred@mazuma.net.au>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-15mdk i686; en-US; rv:0.9.1) Gecko/20010607
+X-Accept-Language: en-us
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...
+References: <20010620192202.A9001@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it 
+automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This 
+doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server 
+has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially 
+over high latency links).
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+
+> 
+> 
+> Network
+> -------
+> 
+> - Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers.
+>   The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages
+>   have been processed.
+> 
+> - Improved responsiveness of API for naming service
+>   Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming
+>   service.  They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered
+>   with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the
+>   API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses.
+> 
+> - The message type compression has been dissabled
+>   An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that
+>   were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32
+>   value could be sent in place of the string.
+>   This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has
+>   been removed.
+>   An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later.
+> 
+> - New example for using 'login system'
+>   It can be found in the samples directory
+> 
+> - Improved performance of log messages
+>   Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+>   numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+> 
+> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+>   performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+>   console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine)
+> 
+> - New debugging aid
+>   There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in
+>   situation and for playing back the input to the same application running
+>   stand alone.  This allows the application to be traced, etc.
+>   The system will go up on CVS within the next few days
+> 
+> 
+> PACS
+> ----
+> 
+> - First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only
+>   at the moment.
+> 
+> 
+> 3D
+> --
+> 
+> - The header file have moved!
+>   The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their
+>   respective source files)
+>   The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d
+> 
+> - System for generating object positions on the landscape completed
+>   This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position
+>   within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch
+>   tesselation.  Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground
+>   regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at.
+> 
+> - In development...
+>   Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the
+>   editor for the particle system are in development.
+> 
+> 
+> Audio
+> -----
+> 
+> - Work is starting on the audio library.
+>   During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and
+>   a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL
+>   diver in the autumn.
+> 
+> 
+> AI
+> --
+> 
+> - Silence from the AI team
+>   The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now.  There will be
+>   little news from them for a few months
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jun 21 14:14:11 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5LCEBX83070
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:14:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5LCA8I72145
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:10:08 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007b01c0fa4b$1cd8df00$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010620192202.A9001@nevrax.com> <3B31DF13.2070905@mazuma.net.au>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...
+Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:10:07 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+
+> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+> over high latency links).
+
+
+Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Thu Jun 21 18:56:54 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5LGusX85641
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:56:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5LGqoI76460
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:52:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:47:37 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCEPHCAAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="us-ascii"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+Subject: [Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this:
+
+- The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means
+that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy
+service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :)
+
+- This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on
+the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service.
+(in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login
+service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory
+showing how this works)
+
+- So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game
+servers.  It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at
+address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'.
+These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the
+other services that they can talk to.
+
+- In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very
+high frequency event.
+
+I hope this helps.
+
+Daniel.
+
+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------
+Hello,
+
+
+> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+> over high latency links).
+
+
+Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Jun 21 19:36:41 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5LHaeX85838
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:36:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA11770
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:32:28 +0200 (MET DST)
+Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:33:30 +0200
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <10888859870.20010621193330@teleaction.de>
+To: Daniel Miller <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...
+In-reply-To: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCEPHCAAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCEPHCAAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+It makes sense.
+Thank you.
+
+Thursday, June 21, 2001, 6:47:37 PM, you wrote:
+
+DM> To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this:
+
+DM> - The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means
+DM> that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy
+DM> service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :)
+
+DM> - This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on
+DM> the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service.
+DM> (in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login
+DM> service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory
+DM> showing how this works)
+
+DM> - So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game
+DM> servers.  It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at
+DM> address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'.
+DM> These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the
+DM> other services that they can talk to.
+
+DM> - In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very
+DM> high frequency event.
+
+DM> I hope this helps.
+
+DM> Daniel.
+
+
+DM> --------------------------------------------------------------------
+DM> Hello,
+
+
+>> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+>> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+>> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+>> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+>> over high latency links).
+
+
+DM> Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+DM> game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+DM> services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+DM> regards,
+
+DM> Vianney Lecroart
+
+DM> _______________________________________________
+DM> Nel mailing list
+DM> Nel@nevrax.org
+DM> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Wed Jun 27 18:18:13 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5RGICX30869
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:18:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5RGE4I22389
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:14:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:08:48 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEANCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] .shape file format change
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D
+library:
+The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards
+compatible beyond versions 6.  This means that you may need to re-generate
+your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them.
+
+Regards to all
+Daniel.
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Thu Jun 28 08:59:27 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f5S6xRX35390
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:59:27 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 25653 invoked from network); 28 Jun 2001 06:51:27 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 28 Jun 2001 06:51:27 -0000
+Message-ID: <00bd01c0ff9f$4eb34bb0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEANCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] .shape file format change
+Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:55:25 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL,
+except those at Nevrax themselves?
+
+It would be a good idea to keep the nevrax.org homepage updated with news
+like this one and with some more documentation in order to get people
+started on how the overall system works. Nowaday the only real documentation
+is the one about the Network library which is good but it's not enough.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:08 PM
+Subject: [Nel] .shape file format change
+
+
+>
+> A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D
+> library:
+> The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards
+> compatible beyond versions 6.  This means that you may need to re-generate
+> your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them.
+>
+> Regards to all
+> Daniel.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Jun 28 14:47:15 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5SClFX37267
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:47:15 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40081A99
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:43:06 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3B3B2659.5FBD75B7@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:43:05 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] .shape file format change
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEANCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <00bd01c0ff9f$4eb34bb0$024510ac@valerio>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> 
+> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL,
+> except those at Nevrax themselves?
+
+From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in
+the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and
+crossp-platform development.
+
+The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs.
+However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life...
+For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a
+bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting
+the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should
+also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game
+development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know
+this is not easy.
+
+NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application
+framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will
+surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could
+also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about
+NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from
+a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job
+would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful
+audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract
+and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea
+indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile
+NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :)
+'NeL-sdk', ready to code ...
+
+Enough said, let's checkout that CVS !
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Thu Jun 28 16:05:36 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5SE5ZX38319
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:05:35 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f5SE1RI30274
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:01:27 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] .shape file format change
+Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:01:25 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFOEAPCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="us-ascii"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+In-Reply-To: <3B3B2659.5FBD75B7@zerodeux.net>
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I was just drafting a reply to Valerio Santinelli's mail when this one
+turned up, so I guess I'm replying to both postings at once.
+
+First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and
+doesn't show what's going on at the moment.  Sorry about that.  We're just
+sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily.
+There should be a general improvement at this level soon.
+
+For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a
+loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time soon.
+I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if
+it doesn't.
+
+On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features' documents
+under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would
+be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs
+would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome although
+our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem
+with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an
+entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(.
+I'll see what I can do.
+
+Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and less
+like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied
+together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line
+shortly...
+
+For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :)
+
+Regards to all
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:43 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] .shape file format change
+
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+>
+> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on
+NeL,
+> except those at Nevrax themselves?
+
+>From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in
+the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and
+crossp-platform development.
+
+The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs.
+However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life...
+For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a
+bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting
+the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should
+also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game
+development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know
+this is not easy.
+
+NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application
+framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will
+surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could
+also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about
+NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from
+a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job
+would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful
+audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract
+and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea
+indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile
+NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :)
+'NeL-sdk', ready to code ...
+
+Enough said, let's checkout that CVS !
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Thu Jun 28 16:45:59 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f5SEjwX38599
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:45:59 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
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+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 28 Jun 2001 14:37:56 -0000
+Message-ID: <01fb01c0ffe0$7bf784b0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFOEAPCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] .shape file format change
+Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:41:58 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:01 PM
+
+> First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and
+> doesn't show what's going on at the moment.  Sorry about that.  We're just
+> sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily.
+> There should be a general improvement at this level soon.
+
+I spoke to Lecroart about this point. I think that keeping the site up to
+date at least once a week wouldn't require a great effort. I'm not asking
+you to report on the news page every single change that happens upon the
+codebase. Just some generic news about what's going on in order to know that
+the project is still alive.
+
+> For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a
+> loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time
+soon.
+> I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if
+> it doesn't.
+
+The roadmap you posted last week has been greatly appreciated on my part. :)
+I hope that you can keep sending those once every one or two weeks ;)
+
+> On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features'
+documents
+> under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would
+> be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs
+> would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome
+although
+> our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem
+> with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an
+> entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(.
+> I'll see what I can do.
+
+I've just looked at the new docs. I'm going to print them all and read them
+with ease later on during those lonely nights :)
+
+I'm not going to ask you to write a "how to design and build a MMORPG" book.
+That's out of our scope. If I'm evaluating NeL, it's because I am already
+designing an MMORPG and I'm evaluating a framework that would reduce the
+efforts needed to code all the game from grounds up.
+The kind of documentation that I'm looking for in the future is something
+that gives an overview of how the pieces of the NeL framework are tied
+together, and then, some more indeep documentation about how to build a new
+3D entity, how to make a connection to the server and all those things that
+explain what objects should be used and which method should be called to
+accomplish the main operations.
+
+> Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and
+less
+> like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied
+> together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line
+> shortly...
+
+I'm not pressing you to make a new Snowballs in no time. You've got all the
+time you need (I know that I have no influence over this, anyway :))
+I just wish that the new Snowballs will show how to write a basic server and
+a basic client, and how to code the main functions needed to make them both
+run with each other. That's enough to get started with coding upon NeL.
+
+> For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :)
+
+I agree on this one. A binary SDK would save a lot of compiling-time which
+is mainly unneeded.
+
+Having an offline version of the code documentation without going over the
+doxygen compilation time (which took a hour or maybe more on my Athlon)
+would also be useful once the code is in a fairly stable condition.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Jun 28 18:44:12 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5SGiCX39222
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:44:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FC83B29
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:40:02 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3B3B5DDF.44B280FF@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:39:59 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Slight troubles :
+
+- bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with
+'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working)
+
+- stuck here :
+
+make[4]: Entering directory `/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl'
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include -O3
+-I/home/zerodeux/code/pngl/STLport-0619/stlport -I./src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/driver_opengl.pp -c driver_opengl.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o
+.libs/driver_opengl.lo
+In file included from driver_opengl.cpp:48:
+driver_opengl.h:51: 3d/driver.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:52: 3d/material.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:53: 3d/shader.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:54: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:50: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:51: 3d/light.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:52: 3d/primitive_block.h: No such file or directory
+
+The "-I./src" should be "-I../../../../src" ...
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Jun 29 18:27:21 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5TGRLX46245
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:27:21 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f5TGNCI42206
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:23:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f5TGNBZ18350
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:23:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:23:11 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS
+Message-ID: <20010629182311.A18316@nevrax.com>
+References: <3B3B5DDF.44B280FF@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3B3B5DDF.44B280FF@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:39:59PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Vincent,
+
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> Slight troubles :
+> 
+> - bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with
+> 'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working)
+
+This afternoon, i commited a new bootstrap which do the touvh is the ChangeLog
+is missing ... so no more annoying complain from automake :-)
+
+> - stuck here :
+> 
+> [...]
+> 
+> The "-I./src" should be "-I../../../../src" ...
+
+I tried to setup that in the configure.in file and its works properly when
+using VPATH to compile NeL (thing that do do at nevrax to be able to have a
+debug and a release version of NeL in the same time and based on the same
+source). But that doesn't work in a "normal" compilation setup :-(
+
+I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly
+i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+PS: The external CVS will updated tonigth ...
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Jun 29 18:39:42 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5TGdgX46320
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:39:42 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0531A87
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:35:33 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3B3CAE4C.55A6DEAD@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:35:24 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS
+References: <3B3B5DDF.44B280FF@zerodeux.net> <20010629182311.A18316@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> 
+> I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly
+> i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ...
+
+No pb, I'm just a bug hunter ... :)
+
+From stephane.craux@voila.fr Sat Jun 30 12:25:39 2001
+Received: from mailsmtp4.ftmms ([193.252.117.74])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UAPdX53963
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:25:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from stephane.craux@voila.fr)
+Received: from voila.fr (10.3.7.82) by mailsmtp4.ftmms (5.1.053)
+        id 3B3BAF030000B458 for nel@nevrax.org; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:21:16 +0200
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:21:16 +0200
+Message-Id: <GFQNFG$IuRApjYOjnJPZeajZyvCz3qjTSS8q_YzP1I6pT4_vBu9x7Iyb@voila.fr>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain
+From: "stephane.craux@voila.fr"<stephane.craux@voila.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-XaM3-API-Version: 1.1.9.1.38
+X-SenderIP: 213.56.40.20
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id f5UAPdX53963
+Subject: [Nel] culling and transforms
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi ,
+I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and
+noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing
+the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the
+view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly :
+I didn't check if this choice was relevant : is it really ?
+
+Ho , it dosn't seem to me that nel network code provides
+peer2peer networked comm : Am I right ?
+Isn't it a nice solution to very large multi-user environments ?
+
+Great job anyway 
+
+Stephane
+
+
+
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+http://mail.voila.fr
+
+
+
+
+From ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr Sat Jun 30 20:01:13 2001
+Received: from buffalo.ens-lyon.fr (buffalo.ens-lyon.fr [140.77.1.8])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UI1CX56066
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:01:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr)
+Received: from woodstock (woodstock [140.77.11.50])
+	by buffalo.ens-lyon.fr (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f5UHv0127805
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:57:00 +0200 (MET DST)
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:57:00 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr>
+X-Sender: ymorvan@woodstock
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCEPHCAAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106301926300.23724-100000@woodstock>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hullo,
+I've been following the development of NEL for
+some time, I haven't been contributing due to lack
+of spare time, but I wanted to congratulate the
+Nel team for their idea and work.
+
+However, I have one major concern with the licence mecanism.
+Indeed, your idea is that what the people will pay for in
+games based upon Nel is content and not code. Saying this, you 
+implicitly state that content and code are completely distinct things.
+It is true for the most part (graphics, sounds, AI scripts, background,
+plots etc),
+but I can't convince myself that it applies to the rules of the game,
+for I can't help to think that for efficiency matters they should be 
+hardcoded in the different services. (The reason being that because of
+their level of abstraction, using a scripting mechanism would be terribly
+painful and would require a design of the services architecture allowing
+for total flexibility).
+
+I played Ultima Online for 3 years, I read the rantings of lum the mad
+daily, I read the dev boards of currently in development MMORPGs, I'm
+aware of the specificities of the "big three" and all this leads
+me to the conclusion that the rules (i.e. economy system, combat system,
+advancement system etc) are a part of the content at least as important
+as the rest regarding a game's interest (I wouldn't be willing to
+create a MMORPG if I wasn't utterly frustrated by the current trends
+in those games). 
+
+Therefore, while I totaly agree that any improvment
+or further development of Nel's features should be shared, I'd
+like you to reassure me about the protection of one's rule system
+in your design philosophy.
+
+Sorry for this long mail and for reviving this probably old and well
+debated issue :)
+
+	Yann
+
+
+From brenden@rcsis.com Sat Jun 30 20:35:46 2001
+Received: from smtp.rcsis.com (smtp.surewest.net [208.45.228.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UIZjX56241
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:35:45 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from brenden@rcsis.com)
+Received: from brenden2001towe (064.dsl6660144.DHCP.surewest.net [66.60.144.64])
+	by smtp.rcsis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA10934
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:21:43 -0700
+Message-ID: <001701c10193$4d03cec0$40903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+From: "Brenden Towey" <brenden@rcsis.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:34:30 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Good point.
+
+I haven't looked at the source code at ALL, but the idea behind GPL is that
+you only have to GPL your code if you base it on existing GPL code.
+
+So, if NEL doesn't already do this, first you take the GPL code and make a
+well-defined API that allows one to separate the "game rules" from the rest
+of the package, and release that.  "Hey everyone, look at the spiffy API I
+added to the NEL code base.  Please look at it and add it to your GPL code
+base if you like it."
+
+Then you take the GPL game rules on the other side of the API, delete them,
+and write your totally new rules, using only the API.  Tah da, they are
+yours, and you don't have to release your code to anyone.  The game rules
+are a separate binary (library, .o file) just like the game data.  Use
+dynamically linked libraries if you want more separation.  (But I'm pretty
+sure that when compiling proprietary apps (see below) under GNU/Linux, at
+least some GPL code gets bound directly in.  Also, the concept of
+"contamination" my apply, but hey, we are talking a GAME here.  Do you
+really think anyone is going to bother suing you?  Unlikely I think. )
+
+This is the same as developing proprietary apps on GNU/Linux.  GNU/Linux
+provides a public, GPL'd API, but the app you write that interfaces to that
+API is totally your own.
+
+(I'm pretty sure that when compiling proprietary apps under GNU/Linux, at
+least some GPL code gets bound directly in, though this doesn't seem to
+bother anyone.  Also, the concept of "contamination" may apply, but hey, we
+are talking a GAME here.  Do you really think anyone is going to bother
+suing you for GPL license violation?  Unlikely I think, unless you really do
+overtly violate the license. )
+
+
+My 2 cp.
+
+Brenden
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Saturday, June 30, 2001 11:06 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+
+
+>Hullo,
+>I've been following the development of NEL for
+>some time, I haven't been contributing due to lack
+>of spare time, but I wanted to congratulate the
+>Nel team for their idea and work.
+>
+>However, I have one major concern with the licence mecanism.
+>Indeed, your idea is that what the people will pay for in
+>games based upon Nel is content and not code. Saying this, you
+>implicitly state that content and code are completely distinct things.
+>It is true for the most part (graphics, sounds, AI scripts, background,
+>plots etc),
+>but I can't convince myself that it applies to the rules of the game,
+>for I can't help to think that for efficiency matters they should be
+>hardcoded in the different services. (The reason being that because of
+>their level of abstraction, using a scripting mechanism would be terribly
+>painful and would require a design of the services architecture allowing
+>for total flexibility).
+>
+>I played Ultima Online for 3 years, I read the rantings of lum the mad
+>daily, I read the dev boards of currently in development MMORPGs, I'm
+>aware of the specificities of the "big three" and all this leads
+>me to the conclusion that the rules (i.e. economy system, combat system,
+>advancement system etc) are a part of the content at least as important
+>as the rest regarding a game's interest (I wouldn't be willing to
+>create a MMORPG if I wasn't utterly frustrated by the current trends
+>in those games).
+>
+>Therefore, while I totaly agree that any improvment
+>or further development of Nel's features should be shared, I'd
+>like you to reassure me about the protection of one's rule system
+>in your design philosophy.
+>
+>Sorry for this long mail and for reviving this probably old and well
+>debated issue :)
+>
+> Yann
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From nobody@fedro.ugr.es Sat Jun 30 21:38:37 2001
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UJcbX56534
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:38:37 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from nobody@fedro.ugr.es)
+Received: (from nobody@localhost)
+	by fedro.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA09892;
+	Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:25:56 +0200 (MET DST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Message-ID: <993929155.3b3e27c366961@fedro.ugr.es>
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:25:55 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+References: <001701c10193$4d03cec0$40903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+In-Reply-To: <001701c10193$4d03cec0$40903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Then you take the GPL game rules on the other side of the API, delete
+> them,
+> and write your totally new rules, using only the API.  Tah da, they are
+> yours, and you don't have to release your code to anyone.  The game
+> rules
+> are a separate binary (library, .o file) just like the game data.  Use
+> dynamically linked libraries if you want more separation.  (But I'm
+> pretty
+> sure that when compiling proprietary apps (see below) under GNU/Linux,
+> at
+> least some GPL code gets bound directly in.  Also, the concept of
+> "contamination" my apply, but hey, we are talking a GAME here.  Do you
+> really think anyone is going to bother suing you?  Unlikely I think. )
+
+You are totally wrong...
+Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+
+What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+
+And yes you will be sued... you are using the work of thousand of people and you 
+can't share a few stupid lines of code!?!?!?!... 
+
+> This is the same as developing proprietary apps on GNU/Linux.  GNU/Linux
+> provides a public, GPL'd API, but the app you write that interfaces to
+> that API is totally your own.
+
+You are wrong again...
+From what I understood by a mail from FSF, the only way you have to skip GPL is:
+1) Get a License from Nel.
+2) Code the whole client under a different license. Unless the Net protocol is 
+propietary... that I think it is not the case.
+
+ 
+> (I'm pretty sure that when compiling proprietary apps under GNU/Linux,
+> at
+> least some GPL code gets bound directly in, though this doesn't seem to
+> bother anyone.  Also, the concept of "contamination" may apply, but hey,
+> we
+> are talking a GAME here.  Do you really think anyone is going to bother
+> suing you for GPL license violation?  Unlikely I think, unless you
+> really do
+> overtly violate the license. )
+
+No, it is not the same... Please ask a lawyer about it, he will explain it more 
+clearly that I can.
+
+IMO if someone violate even a bit the license i set, I will sue him.
+
+Regards.
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+From ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu Sat Jun 30 22:14:38 2001
+Received: from cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (CENOTE.MRL.NYU.EDU [128.122.47.95])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UKEbX56714
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+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:59:51 -0400
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+In-Reply-To: <993929155.3b3e27c366961@fedro.ugr.es>
+Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10106301531480.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Well, while explaining his mistakes to Brenden,
+you didn't adress my point, which is this:
+Though EQ has better graphics and better written
+network code than UO, I preffer UO because of its rules,
+which yet are hardcoded. 
+
+If it is not possible for me to use Nel
+(and share the technical improvments I may
+make) without being able to protect my set of game 
+rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel 
+library, being specific to my game), then you reduce
+content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer
+service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game
+for any gamer with an ounce of taste.
+ 
+So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+the library).
+
+	Yann
+
+P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+mere initial wealth.
+
+
+
+From elw@stderr.org Sat Jun 30 22:30:49 2001
+Received: from aph.frognet.net (root@aph.frognet.net [216.3.3.138])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UKUmX56810
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:30:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from elw@stderr.org)
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+        for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:26:53 -0400
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:26:53 -0400 (EDT)
+From: elijah wright <elw@stderr.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+In-Reply-To: <993929155.3b3e27c366961@fedro.ugr.es>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106301623470.10459-100000@eckhart.stderr.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> You are totally wrong...
+> Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+> 
+> What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+> So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+
+incorrect.  you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed
+libraries.  library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do
+not constitute "extending" GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as
+it is intended to be used.
+
+LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team
+could countenance dual-licensing any such "rules API" and releasing
+parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses.
+
+elijah
+
+
+From jcosby@gscyclone.com Sat Jun 30 23:35:47 2001
+Received: from smtp.gscyclone.com (server2.gscyclone.com [209.36.53.41])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5ULZfX57165
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:35:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from jcosby@gscyclone.com)
+Received: (apparently) from jc2 ([12.25.141.108]) by smtp.gscyclone.com  with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44);
+	 Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:28:31 -0400
+Message-ID: <000d01c101ac$06161e00$6c8d190c@gscyclone.net>
+From: "John Cosby" <jcosby@gscyclone.com>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] Game Rules
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:31:17 -0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+
+In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of a
+game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define gameplay
+cannot.
+
+This leads to an interesting notion when looking at making a game's source
+code public.  There is no legal protection for the rules themselves - the
+graphics, user interface, etc. may be protected, though.
+
+In this fashion, Nel seems to have a business model that will work, in that
+they will be charging to play on their servers using their bandwidth.  If
+the rules of the game are defined and implemented in source code, then those
+rules may be taken and adapted or reused.  If the rules of the game are
+implemented in libraries using a public API, then those may be "protected"
+in so far as the original source and documentation is not available,
+although anyone who wants to reverse-engineer (on the basis of behavior,
+given the licenses attached to EQ and UO) can come up with their own
+implementation of what they believe the game rules to be.
+
+All because I wanted to reimplement a game Prodigy let die, years and years
+ago....
+
+
+
+
+From stephane.craux@voila.fr Sat Jun 30 23:41:18 2001
+Received: from mailsmtp5.ftmms ([193.252.117.74])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5ULfIX57212;
+	Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:41:18 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from stephane.craux@voila.fr)
+Received: from voila.fr (10.3.7.82) by mailsmtp5.ftmms (5.1.053)
+        id 3B3BAF040000E4DC; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:36:52 +0200
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:36:52 +0200
+Message-Id: <GFRIPG$IzgqNYw0RU4_mHQ5rZoRV4KjrUGCa1rJjkA5dljUx1mOn248xJi@voila.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain
+From: "stephane.craux@voila.fr"<stephane.craux@voila.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: nel@nevrax.org
+X-XaM3-API-Version: 1.1.9.1.38
+X-SenderIP: 213.56.40.20
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+> the library).
+> 
+> 	Yann
+> 
+> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+> mere initial wealth.
+
+I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one 
+of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century .
+
+Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is concerned, 
+and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software is 
+the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the ever 
+coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+those which don't provide source code .
+
+That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for individuals :
+releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get insights 
+about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source providers .
+
+Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to understand
+the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor entities
+- as far as software production is concerned - 
+I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global leverage tendance .
+
+The company I work for prohibits the reuse of GPL code and tends to minimize 
+the usage of LGPL ed source code : no need to ask a lawyer why , everybody
+will laugh at u if u ask and I think the boss is right here .
+Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable company 
+protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note 
+that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism died 
+out of realism ?
+
+Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever thought 
+that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable way of 
+thinking and only fools rush in .
+
+
+I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the GPL concept ,
+(I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) , but
+since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL detractors .
+Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+
+I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+but I don't think it will happen .
+
+Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't be there if not)
+
+Stephane Craux
+Stephane.Craux@voila.fr
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+http://mail.voila.fr
+
+
+
+
+From ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu Sat Jun 30 23:56:58 2001
+Received: from cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (CENOTE.MRL.NYU.EDU [128.122.47.95])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5ULuvX57298
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:42:11 -0400 (EDT)
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:42:11 -0400
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Game Rules
+In-Reply-To: <000d01c101ac$06161e00$6c8d190c@gscyclone.net>
+Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10106301732540.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Ok John, thanks for your answer, I think 
+I have a more realist vision now:
+rules are too abstract to be protected in themselves
+and their implementation will be reverse-engineered
+if they are popular. 
+So all you have to do is give yourself the means to ensure that your
+game will be good enough to discourage people from trying to steal
+your players. Sounds like the hard, but honest way ...
+
+And Stephane, I don't think that free software is a joke,
+you know I even think that K. Marx had good ideas ...:)
+
+
+From nobody@fedro.ugr.es Sun Jul  1 00:07:23 2001
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UM7NX57374
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 00:07:23 +0200 (CEST)
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+	Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:54:04 +0200 (MET DST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Message-ID: <993938043.3b3e4a7be58b4@fedro.ugr.es>
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:54:03 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+References: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10106301531480.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10106301531480.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> If it is not possible for me to use Nel
+> (and share the technical improvments I may
+> make) without being able to protect my set of game 
+> rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel 
+> library, being specific to my game), then you reduce
+> content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer
+> service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game
+> for any gamer with an ounce of taste.
+>  
+> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+> the library).
+
+I am in no way related to Nel. 
+This is just my opinion as contributor of Open Source.
+
+But I think that you should fix the ethical conflict between using "others" GPL 
+code and asking them to protect "your" right for not sharing yours. :-/
+
+> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+> mere initial wealth.
+
+Once a american president, perhaps Abraham Lincon, told that a nation that give 
+away freedom to get security deserver nor freedom neither security.
+
+So this apply to Open Source, I think that freedom is soooo good that it worth 
+to risk to that to happen. And imagine that the case you told happen... you 
+would have shown world how good is Open Source that a Lame enterprise has decide 
+to use your code to make their game.
+
+Regards.
+
+[ Above is just my opinion, I don't ask you to understand it, not to agree with 
+me... ]
+
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+From nobody@fedro.ugr.es Sun Jul  1 00:41:03 2001
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UMewX57542
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 00:40:58 +0200 (CEST)
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+Received: (from nobody@localhost)
+	by fedro.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.1) id AAA11811;
+	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 00:27:04 +0200 (MET DST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Game Rules
+Message-ID: <993940023.3b3e5237494bb@fedro.ugr.es>
+Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:27:03 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+References: <000d01c101ac$06161e00$6c8d190c@gscyclone.net>
+In-Reply-To: <000d01c101ac$06161e00$6c8d190c@gscyclone.net>
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Mensaje citado por: John Cosby <jcosby@gscyclone.com>:
+
+> I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+> 
+> In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of
+> a
+> game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+> etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define
+> gameplay
+> cannot.
+
+I am not a lawer... But you say "the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted."
+Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k?
+So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic, 
+they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :)
+
+I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you 
+can copy right D&D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy 
+right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :)
+
+Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to 
+patent it to. :-(
+
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Sun Jul  1 00:48:37 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UMmZX57595
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+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:45:21 -0700
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Organization: InOrbit
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+
+By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service, we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification language in 
+their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should we release the server side code?
+
+michael warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+From nobody@fedro.ugr.es Sun Jul  1 00:55:47 2001
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
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+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Message-ID: <993941473.3b3e57e1caae2@fedro.ugr.es>
+Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:51:13 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+References: <200106302142.f5ULgci20101@mail.in-orbit.net>
+In-Reply-To: <200106302142.f5ULgci20101@mail.in-orbit.net>
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>:
+
+> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of
+> nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service,
+> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why
+> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider
+> scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification
+> language in 
+> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at
+> all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding
+> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite
+> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+> we release the server side code?
+
+I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+hard working on such a good project.
+
+IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+
+Regards,
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+From ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu Sun Jul  1 01:08:20 2001
+Received: from cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (CENOTE.MRL.NYU.EDU [128.122.47.95])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UN8KX57732
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+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:53:33 -0400
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+In-Reply-To: <200106302142.f5ULgci20101@mail.in-orbit.net>
+Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10106301838230.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Well, I think that the GPL, as opposed to LGPL,
+is much more strict than you think, I've taken a few minutes 
+to go and read it thoroughly and it is quite clear. 
+Besides, its very purpose is to lay legal grounds to defend
+the Free Software notion, so I think it is to be taken seriously,
+and in my opinion, it is a good thing.
+As for your scripting thing, I think we can devide rules in two
+categories:
+-global ones ("when a character dies, he returns to his binding point")
+-detailed ones ("the damage formula for the needle gun is
+log3(sqrt(z)-8x)")
+
+Like john said, the second ones will be reverse engineered (see the "big
+three", whereas the first ones are so general that on one hand the idea of
+a patent on them is ridiculous (though I think some fool as tried to
+patent the whole MMOG or even PW concept) and on the other hand their
+scripting is difficult.
+ 
+So there is no point at protecting your rules.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Sun Jul  1 01:13:59 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f5UNDwX57776
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+Message-Id: <200106302208.f5UM82i20277@mail.in-orbit.net>
+Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:10:44 -0700
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, x5101920@fedro.ugr.es wrote:
+
+>
+>Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>:
+>
+>> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of
+>> nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service,
+>> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why
+>> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider
+>> scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification
+>> language in 
+>> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at
+>> all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding
+>> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite
+>> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+>> we release the server side code?
+>
+>I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+>hard working on such a good project.
+>
+We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source.
+
+>IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+>and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+>
+if it works out to seperate our rules in an external data format- because that really is what heaps and heaps of content specific rules are, then we might well release our server code (and we will of course release any changes we make to the basic services), but though ianal, I'm quite sure on the point of not being required to release internal software that makes 
+use of gpl'ed code and I really don't believe that even mr stallman would object given the situation- its quite a step for a game company to share source at all and it has been no small hinderance in our search for funding, nevertheless we've stuck by the gpl.
+
+michael warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+From nobody@fedro.ugr.es Sun Jul  1 11:27:45 2001
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f619RiX61746
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:27:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from nobody@fedro.ugr.es)
+Received: (from nobody@localhost)
+	by fedro.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA16237;
+	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:23:33 +0200 (MET DST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <993979412.3b3eec1424ac5@fedro.ugr.es>
+Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:23:32 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+References: <GFRIPG$IzgqNYw0RU4_mHQ5rZoRV4KjrUGCa1rJjkA5dljUx1mOn248xJi@voila.fr>
+In-Reply-To: <GFRIPG$IzgqNYw0RU4_mHQ5rZoRV4KjrUGCa1rJjkA5dljUx1mOn248xJi@voila.fr>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4
+Subject: [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one 
+> of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century .
+
+Well, there is stupid people that laugh at important things. 
+Idiots things everything is a joke. :-/
+ 
+> Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is
+> concerned, 
+> and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software
+> is 
+> the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the
+> ever 
+> coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+> those which don't provide source code .
+
+You didn't understand it...
+GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, 
+modify and resuse it under the GPL License.
+
+> That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for
+> individuals :
+> releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get
+> insights 
+> about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source
+> providers .
+
+No, because all the code is under the GPL.
+If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you 
+want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not.
+ 
+> Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to
+> understand
+> the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+> So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor
+> entities
+> - as far as software production is concerned - 
+> I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global
+> leverage tendance .
+
+You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+project as mine is without GPL.
+
+GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+ 
+> Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable
+> company 
+> protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note
+> that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+> Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism
+> died 
+> out of realism ?
+
+GPL is not about companies, but about users.
+GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work.
+
+I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+1) It make faster the development.
+2) The user base is also developers base
+3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+
+Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+
+ 
+> Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+> methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever
+> thought 
+> that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable
+> way of 
+> thinking and only fools rush in .
+
+Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+If you say... "Mine is the best wine of the world", just tell me how you did, 
+and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better.
+And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to 
+create an even better one. 
+That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand.
+
+> I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the
+> GPL concept ,
+> (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) ,
+> but
+> since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL
+> detractors .
+> Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+
+Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more 
+secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to 
+forbid people to copy and share apps.
+ 
+> I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+> but I don't think it will happen .
+
+GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions.
+ 
+> Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't
+> be there if not)
+
+You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+ethics.
+
+REgards,
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+From bernard@bernard-hugueney.org Sun Jul  1 11:49:59 2001
+Received: from bubastis (e240.dhcp212-198-23.noos.fr [212.198.23.240])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f619nwX61889
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:49:58 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from bernard@bernard-hugueney.org)
+Received: by bubastis (Postfix, from userid 1000)
+	id CCC414EC15; Sun,  1 Jul 2001 11:32:23 +0200 (CEST)
+Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:32:23 +0200
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+Message-ID: <20010701113223.A11728@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+In-Reply-To: <200106302208.f5UM82i20277@mail.in-orbit.net>
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.18i
+From: bernard@bernard-hugueney.org (Debian User)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+* Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net> [010701 09:48]:
+> 6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, x5101920@fedro.ugr.es wrote:
+> 
+> >
+> >Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>:
+> >
+
+> >> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+> >> we release the server side code?
+> >
+> >I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+> >hard working on such a good project.
+> >
+> We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source.
+> 
+> >IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+> >and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+> >
+
+
+My understanding of the GPL is that your do not have to give source code
+if you do not "give" binary. This is a concern to Mr Stallman because
+of the comming Application Services Providers (or that kind of Three Letters
+ Acronym). This should be fixed with the upcoming v 3 of the GPL.
+
+Neither Am I A L., but for the rules parts, my 2 euros :
+the reverse engineering part is not that relevent because you could
+apply to any computer prog. I know that people fitted archmage models in
+matlab, but with LARGE rule sets, I don't think it's realistic.
+I think it could be possible to use propritery code with GPL code 
+using a LGLP 'hook' layer. But I'm not sure...
+
+To be on thesafe side, GPL and non-GPL code should not be in the same 
+adress-space (ie CORBA).You have to pay an efficiency penalty to keep your code
+non-GPL and that's the intended behaviour IMHO.
+
+For thoses who think GPL is worthless ("a joke") because you can steal / use
+the code anyway, I think you are missing the point. What matter is not the
+software (state of CVS at time t), but the ongoing project. That's why
+there are VERY few forks on GPL land. Use the code and it's ok, the project
+is working for you. Take the code, change it, and then YOU have to handle
+all the evolution, or keep track of changes (what if they are not compatible
+with yours ?). You can certainly catch-up very easly with a GPL project, and
+it's R&D is available for everyone to use (great karma IMHO), but the
+power of the successful GPL project is not in the code, but in the community
+behind it. (Of course, both are linked, hard to attract people with ugly code)
+
+I really hope that NeL will build such a dedicated and helpful community.
+(Code quality is there IMHO, for network design etc, I'not qualified...)
+
+Bernard
+
+From ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu Sun Jul  1 18:48:55 2001
+Received: from cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (CENOTE.MRL.NYU.EDU [128.122.47.95])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f61GmsX64095
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 18:48:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu)
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+	by cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA54629
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:34:04 -0400 (EDT)
+Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:34:04 -0400
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <20010701113223.A11728@bernard-hugueney.org>
+Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011230510.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've managed to build nel correctly, but
+client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes
+msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/
+and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole
+code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out
+but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ?
+Thanks in advance,
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+From elw@stderr.org Sun Jul  1 20:01:11 2001
+Received: from aph.frognet.net (root@aph.frognet.net [216.3.3.138])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f61I1AX64495
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 20:01:10 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from elw@stderr.org)
+Received: from eckhart.stderr.org (elw@aph.frognet.net [216.3.3.138])
+        by aph.frognet.net (8.12.0.Beta10/8.12.0.Beta10/Debian 8.12.0.Beta10) with ESMTP id f61HvAtG032534
+        for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:57:10 -0400
+Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:57:10 -0400 (EDT)
+From: elijah wright <elw@stderr.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns
+In-Reply-To: <993979412.3b3eec1424ac5@fedro.ugr.es>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0107011356170.32035-100000@eckhart.stderr.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+
+could the GPL bigots and zealots please find something else to do with
+their time?  you're wasting a lot of energy on something that is
+well-understood and needs very little additional explanation.
+
+elijah
+
+
+> > Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is
+> > concerned, 
+> > and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software
+> > is 
+> > the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the
+> > ever 
+> > coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+> > those which don't provide source code .
+> 
+> You didn't understand it...
+> GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, 
+> modify and resuse it under the GPL License.
+> 
+> > That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for
+> > individuals :
+> > releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get
+> > insights 
+> > about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source
+> > providers .
+> 
+> No, because all the code is under the GPL.
+> If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you 
+> want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not.
+>  
+> > Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to
+> > understand
+> > the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+> > So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor
+> > entities
+> > - as far as software production is concerned - 
+> > I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global
+> > leverage tendance .
+> 
+> You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+> great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+> project as mine is without GPL.
+> 
+> GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+> get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+>  
+> > Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable
+> > company 
+> > protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note
+> > that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+> > Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism
+> > died 
+> > out of realism ?
+> 
+> GPL is not about companies, but about users.
+> GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work.
+> 
+> I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+> 1) It make faster the development.
+> 2) The user base is also developers base
+> 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+> 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+> 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+> 
+> Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+> 
+>  
+> > Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+> > methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever
+> > thought 
+> > that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable
+> > way of 
+> > thinking and only fools rush in .
+> 
+> Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+> If you say... "Mine is the best wine of the world", just tell me how you did, 
+> and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better.
+> And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to 
+> create an even better one. 
+> That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand.
+> 
+> > I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the
+> > GPL concept ,
+> > (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) ,
+> > but
+> > since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL
+> > detractors .
+> > Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+> 
+> Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more 
+> secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to 
+> forbid people to copy and share apps.
+>  
+> > I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+> > but I don't think it will happen .
+> 
+> GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions.
+>  
+> > Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't
+> > be there if not)
+> 
+> You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+> ethics.
+> 
+> REgards,
+> 
+>                   Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+> 
+> nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+> Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+>  
+>                     -- Echelon must die --
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+-- 
+
+
+--
+$ chown us:us yourbase -R
+
+
+
+From stephane.craux@voila.fr Sun Jul  1 21:06:08 2001
+Received: from mailsmtp4.ftmms ([193.252.117.74])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f61J68X64853;
+	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:06:08 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from stephane.craux@voila.fr)
+Received: from voila.fr (10.3.7.82) by mailsmtp4.ftmms (5.1.053)
+        id 3B3BAF0300011CC3; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:01:45 +0200
+Date: Sun,  1 Jul 2001 21:01:45 +0200
+Message-Id: <GFT66X$ImCBooS2X6ecAhyb1HKzzeoBF6kg8TJrdrcB0He2fbEsBQaevXA@voila.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain
+From: "stephane.craux@voila.fr"<stephane.craux@voila.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: nel@nevrax.org
+X-XaM3-API-Version: 1.1.9.1.38
+X-SenderIP: 213.56.40.20
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id f61J68X64853
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> > You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+> > great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+> > project as mine is without GPL.
+Ah , so u are the grat man , it will be a primer !
+
+> > GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+> > get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+agreed
+
+> > I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+> > 1) It make faster the development.
+did u get it right ?????
+> > 2) The user base is also developers base
+sure ?
+> > 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+proved ?
+> > 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+yes , but is it that much important ?
+> > 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+mmm
+> > Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+what kind of mix are trying to involve here ?
+> > Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+you are in real rouble with ur mind , but I'm quiet confident 
+u may still evolve , i hope that , be sure of it :)
+> > You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+> > ethics.
+I learned I school that u have always more to learn , did u miss that point ?
+no time loosed , quiet easy answers , regards for comin' into it
+
+Stephane
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+http://mail.voila.fr
+
+
+
+
+From ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu Sun Jul  1 21:23:01 2001
+Received: from cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (CENOTE.MRL.NYU.EDU [128.122.47.95])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f61JN1X64957
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:23:01 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu)
+Received: from localhost (ymorvan@localhost)
+	by cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA55167
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:08:10 -0400 (EDT)
+Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:08:10 -0400
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns
+In-Reply-To: <GFT66X$ImCBooS2X6ecAhyb1HKzzeoBF6kg8TJrdrcB0He2fbEsBQaevXA@voila.fr>
+Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011502250.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Man man, what have I started ? :)
+I suggest we stop bugging the other
+members of this mailing list with ideological
+discussions that should take place elsewhere.
+After all, my question was answered and the answer was that
+there finally was no problem with having one's rules code public.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+
+From nobody@fedro.ugr.es Sun Jul  1 23:12:43 2001
+Received: from fedro.ugr.es (fedro.ugr.es [150.214.20.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f61LChX65543
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:12:43 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from nobody@fedro.ugr.es)
+Received: (from nobody@localhost)
+	by fedro.ugr.es (8.9.3/8.9.1) id XAA20689;
+	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:07:58 +0200 (MET DST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns
+Message-ID: <994021677.3b3f912deceaf@fedro.ugr.es>
+Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:07:57 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+References: <GFT66X$ImCBooS2X6ecAhyb1HKzzeoBF6kg8TJrdrcB0He2fbEsBQaevXA@voila.fr>
+In-Reply-To: <GFT66X$ImCBooS2X6ecAhyb1HKzzeoBF6kg8TJrdrcB0He2fbEsBQaevXA@voila.fr>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I repeat... I am not part of Nevrax. Just a fellow developer that is following 
+this guys great work.
+
+> > > I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+> > > 1) It make faster the development.
+> did u get it right ?????
+
+GPL shorts develpoment time as the amount of code that can be reused is 
+infinite.
+
+> > > 2) The user base is also developers base
+> sure ?
+
+Sure. Start yourself a GPL project and you will see.
+
+> > > 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+> proved ?
+
+Ask GPG guys ;-)
+
+> > > 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+> yes , but is it that much important ?
+
+Well, if you run Windows perhaps not... but what about a MacOS user or a Linux 
+PPC user?
+
+Regards,
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+ 
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Mon Jul  2 09:14:16 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f627EGX69191
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:14:16 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 27109 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 07:05:54 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 07:05:54 -0000
+Message-ID: <039c01c102c6$1e3e8b00$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011230510.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:10:47 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+September for a working version of Snowballs.
+That's due to the fact that people at Nevrax rewrote lots of code since the
+last release of Snowballs.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Yann Morvan" <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:34 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+> I've managed to build nel correctly, but
+> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes
+> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/
+> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole
+> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out
+> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ?
+> Thanks in advance,
+>
+> Yann
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Mon Jul  2 11:15:57 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f629FvX70301
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:15:57 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from lionelb (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f629BjI51553
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:11:45 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001501c102d7$5638c5f0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <GFQNFG$IuRApjYOjnJPZeajZyvCz3qjTSS8q_YzP1I6pT4_vBu9x7Iyb@voila.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] culling and transforms
+Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:14:03 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <stephane.craux@voila.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:21 PM
+Subject: [Nel] culling and transforms
+
+
+> Hi ,
+> I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and
+> noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing
+> the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the
+> view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly :
+
+Is it not nearly the same?
+
+transform the planes:  transform 6 planes => 6*16= 96 muls.
+transform the AABB:  transform 8 vectors => 8*12= 96 muls.
+
+But maybe your trick to transform an AABB is to just transform the center
+(12), then transform the 3 half vectors of the AABB (3*3 because of their
+axis form), and then just do some add ?  (ooops :) )
+
+regards
+
+Lionel.
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Mon Jul  2 15:36:38 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f62DacX71883
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:36:38 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f62DWQI54953
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:32:26 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:32:23 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEBKCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] A bit of news
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The following news will appear on the sight later today.
+
+Regards to all.
+Daniel
+
+
+PARTICLE SYSTEM
+First release of the particle system editor with full access to the
+particule system engine is out (it's an extension to the object viewer).
+
+ENVIRONMENT MAPPING
+Flat and cubic environment map rendering have been added to the 3D engine
+and the tools.
+
+AUDIO LIBRARY
+The lowest level layer of the sound library is functional (the sound library
+is still in very early stage of development)
+
+SERVICE ADMIN IMPROVEMENTS
+Loads of new features added to the Win32 displayer
+- window positions can be stored in the config file
+- displayer window now has a prompt to allow live interaction with running
+services (Note: The same commands can be sent to the services by the admin
+client)
+
+LIGHT MAPS
+Version 1.0 of the lightmap implementation is fully implemented and
+available
+
+COLLISIONS
+Version 1.0 of the PACS collision code fully implemented and available
+
+
+From novalis@novalis.org Mon Jul  2 16:10:56 2001
+Received: from charger.oldcity.dca.net (charger.oldcity.dca.net [207.245.82.76])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f62EAtX72364
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:10:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from novalis@novalis.org)
+Received: from novalis.org (kafka.i-site.com [216.158.32.67])
+	by charger.oldcity.dca.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/DCANET) with ESMTP id KAA20803
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:06:41 -0400
+Message-ID: <3B407F8C.5439AA68@novalis.org>
+Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:05:00 -0400
+From: Dave Turner <novalis@novalis.org>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, pdf
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Congratulations + concerns
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0106301623470.10459-100000@eckhart.stderr.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+elijah wright wrote:
+> 
+> > You are totally wrong...
+> > Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+> >
+> > What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+> > So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+> 
+> incorrect.  you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed
+> libraries.  library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do
+> not constitute "extending" GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as
+> it is intended to be used.
+> 
+> LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team
+> could countenance dual-licensing any such "rules API" and releasing
+> parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses.
+> 
+
+1.  Do not use the term commercial when you mean proprietary. 
+Proprietary is the opposite of Free as in Freedom.
+
+2.  The exception to the GPL refers only to system libraries.
+
+See this for details:
+http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html#MoneyGuzzlerInc
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the
+street or get a phone call and you'll be there.  We miss you, Pug.
+
+From novalis@novalis.org Mon Jul  2 17:48:39 2001
+Received: from charger.oldcity.dca.net (charger.oldcity.dca.net [207.245.82.76])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f62FmcX73093
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:48:38 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from novalis@novalis.org)
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+	by charger.oldcity.dca.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/DCANET) with ESMTP id LAA28283
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:44:26 -0400
+Message-ID: <3B409672.C2F45265@novalis.org>
+Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:42:42 -0400
+From: Dave Turner <novalis@novalis.org>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, pdf
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Game Rules
+References: <000d01c101ac$06161e00$6c8d190c@gscyclone.net> <993940023.3b3e5237494bb@fedro.ugr.es>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+x5101920@fedro.ugr.es wrote:
+> 
+> Mensaje citado por: John Cosby <jcosby@gscyclone.com>:
+> 
+> > I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+> >
+> > In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of
+> > a
+> > game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+> > etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define
+> > gameplay
+> > cannot.
+> 
+> I am not a lawer... But you say "the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted."
+> Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k?
+> So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic,
+> they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :)
+> 
+> I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you
+> can copy right D&D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy
+> right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :)
+> 
+> Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to
+> patent it to. :-(
+
+You can patent a game rule set:
+
+http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,641,166'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,641,166&RS=PN/5,641,166
+http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1='board+game'&OS="board+game"&RS="board+game"
+
+You can also copyright the precise look of a critical hit table, and the
+wording of the hits, and the arrangement of them, but not the
+information therein. If the arrangement is the only logical one or
+otherwise doesn't involve creativity, then it is not copyrightable (see
+ALEXANDRIA DRAFTING CO V. FRANKLIN MAPS at
+http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/97D0773P.HTM).
+
+In short, creative stuff (even slightly creative) is copyrightable. 
+Processes, etc. are patentable.  So, the code to implement critical hits
+is copyrightable, but if someone reverse engineers and reimplements it,
+the author has no recourse.
+
+
+Disclaimer: IANAL.  But I know more about copyright, patent, and
+trademark law than both of my parents put together.  And they are
+lawyers :)
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the
+street or get a phone call and you'll be there.  We miss you, Pug.
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jul  2 18:25:08 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f62GP8X73479
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:25:08 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:20:56 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:20:56 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+Message-ID: <20010702182056.A790@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010701113223.A11728@bernard-hugueney.org> <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011230510.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011230510.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>; from ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu on Sun, Jul 01, 2001 at 12:34:04PM -0400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Yann,
+
+Nel changeds a lot since we wrote Snowballs. If you want compile it, you should
+compile the NeL source code provided with the Snowballs source code on
+nevrax.org :
+
+   http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_1.zip
+or
+   http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_2.tar.gz
+
+Have fun :-)
+
+
+Yann Morvan wrote:
+> I've managed to build nel correctly, but
+> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes
+> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/
+> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole
+> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out
+> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ?
+> Thanks in advance,
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jul  2 19:09:09 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f62H99X73771
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:09:09 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f62H4vU02467
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:04:57 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:04:57 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+Message-ID: <20010702190457.B790@nevrax.com>
+References: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011230510.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu> <039c01c102c6$1e3e8b00$024510ac@valerio>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <039c01c102c6$1e3e8b00$024510ac@valerio>; from tanis@digi-web.it on Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 09:10:47AM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+> September for a working version of Snowballs.
+
+In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the end
+of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-)
+
+I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs should
+look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do my
+best in that way :-)
+
+It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with several
+services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the
+server structur will show how we design NeL to be used.
+
+Have fun ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu Mon Jul  2 20:19:26 2001
+Received: from cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (CENOTE.MRL.NYU.EDU [128.122.47.95])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f62IJPX74170
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:19:25 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu)
+Received: from localhost (ymorvan@localhost)
+	by cenote.mrl.nyu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA56542
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
+Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:04:32 -0400
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+In-Reply-To: <20010702190457.B790@nevrax.com>
+Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107021357010.57105-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs.
+The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism
+used by the server to identify a player's action and call the
+matching piece of code, and how to define those "pieces of code".
+I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it,
+but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find,
+don't hesitate to tell me about it.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Tue Jul  3 10:56:10 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f638u7X79376
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:56:08 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f638pqI61465
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:51:52 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:51:48 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFGEBMCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="us-ascii"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107021357010.57105-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Your best bet for now is to look at the layer 4 code sample
+(http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/net_layer4)
+
+In this example the 'client' sends messages to the 'frontend', the
+'frontend' treats these messages and sends them to the 'ping service'. The
+'ping service' receives messages from the 'frontend', treats them and sends
+back new messages. The 'frontend' receives messages from the 'server',
+treats them and dispatches new messages to the 'client'...
+
+The following chunks of code in the 'frontend' is the key. You can extend
+the callback arrays to include messages for all the actions that the player
+can send to the shard:
+
+
+/*
+ * Callback array for messages received from a client
+ */
+TCallbackItem CallbackArray[] =
+{
+        { "PING", cbPing }        // when receiving a "PING" message, call
+cbPing()
+};
+
+
+/*
+ * Callback array for message received from the ping service
+ */
+TCallbackItem PingServiceCallbackArray[] =
+{
+        { "PONG", cbPong }        // when receiving a "PONG" message, call
+cbPong()
+};
+
+
+
+Snowballs, being based on an older version of NeL, is far less clean - the
+callback table contains a mixture of admin messages (such as "C" and "D"),
+and game messages (such as "PAN" and "SHO"). Otherwise the principles are
+the same.
+
+// Callback array as a server
+TCallbackItem CallbackArray [] =
+{
+        { "ES", cbServerProcessEntityState },
+        //{ "BT", cbSpawnBot },
+        { "C", cbConnect },
+        { "D", cbDisconnect },
+        //{ "RST", cbResetServer },
+        { "NAM", cbAssignName },
+        { "PAN", cbPan },
+        { "SHO", cbShoot },
+        { "RMW", cbProcessRemoveWeapon },
+        { "AUT", cbWelcome },
+        { "DUMP", cbDumpState },
+        { "CHAT", cbChat },
+        { "PING", cbPing },
+        { "PONG", cbPong }
+        //{ "ACC", cbGiveAccess } // this is for the test client. Remove it
+for a real use or any client can connect with any password !
+};
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Yann Morvan
+Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 8:05 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs.
+The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism
+used by the server to identify a player's action and call the
+matching piece of code, and how to define those "pieces of code".
+I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it,
+but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find,
+don't hesitate to tell me about it.
+
+	Yann
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Tue Jul  3 12:34:07 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f63AY6X79916
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:34:06 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 16614 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 10:25:36 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 10:25:36 -0000
+Message-ID: <04bb01c103ab$13e59af0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011230510.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu> <039c01c102c6$1e3e8b00$024510ac@valerio> <20010702190457.B790@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:29:44 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Go Cedric, go! We're all with you :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 7:04 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+>
+> Hi,
+>
+> Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> > The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+> > September for a working version of Snowballs.
+>
+> In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the
+end
+> of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-)
+>
+> I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs
+should
+> look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do
+my
+> best in that way :-)
+>
+> It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with
+several
+> services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the
+> server structur will show how we design NeL to be used.
+>
+> Have fun ...
+>
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jul  3 14:35:23 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f63CZMX80847
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:35:22 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f63CV9I64059
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+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f63CV9Z09769
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:31:09 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:31:09 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+Message-ID: <20010703143109.A9634@nevrax.com>
+References: <Pine.SGI.4.10.10107011230510.51744-100000@cenote.mrl.nyu.edu> <039c01c102c6$1e3e8b00$024510ac@valerio> <20010702190457.B790@nevrax.com> <04bb01c103ab$13e59af0$024510ac@valerio>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <04bb01c103ab$13e59af0$024510ac@valerio>; from tanis@digi-web.it on Tue, Jul 03, 2001 at 12:29:44PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> Go Cedric, go! We're all with you :)
+
+Thanks a lot Valerio, that cheers me up :-)
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Wed Jul  4 10:19:55 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f648JsX88284
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:19:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 29754 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 08:11:21 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 08:11:21 -0000
+Message-ID: <064f01c10461$84a7e8e0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:15:42 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Italian NeL community
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+This message is mainly intended for the head people at Nevrax.=20
+
+I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com for italian =
+people using NeL.
+This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new =
+section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of =
+code and the like.=20
+
+Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in =
+supporting this initiative?
+Other people's thoughts about this are welcome.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This message is mainly intended for the =
+head people=20
+at Nevrax. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am thinking about opening a new =
+section on=20
+hateseed.com for italian people using NeL.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This means that I'd open a new forum =
+for=20
+NeL-related talkings and a new section with NeL related material like =
+downloads,=20
+tutorials, snippets of code and the like. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you think this would be usefull? =
+Would you be=20
+interested in supporting this initiative?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Other people's thoughts about this are=20
+welcome.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(<A href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)</FONT><=
+/DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20--
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Wed Jul  4 15:15:14 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f64DFDX95281
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:15:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc252.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f64DB0I75155
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:11:00 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010704115106.00b967c0@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:10:14 +0200
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Subject: [Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Wow, I'm out of town for three days and I miss all the fun ! :)
+Anyway, here goes my 0.02$.
+
+About the "game rules" issue:
+John and Dave pretty much hit the nail on the head, so I won't go into an 
+extended rant. I'll only add that although you could probably (as Dave 
+mentionned) patent your rules *in the US*, it would most certainly be a bad 
+idea as it is very expensive and time consuming to fill such a patent and 
+numerous countries will not recognize it anyway.
+Keep in mind that software and business method patents are highly 
+objectionable in the first place. You can read more about this subject here:
+http://www.freepatents.org/
+and here:
+http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/against-software-patents.html
+
+European citizens should also consider signing the petition against 
+software patents:
+http://petition.eurolinux.org/index.html?LANG=en
+
+As for the Pro/Anti GPL debate:
+Stephane Craux, I'm afraid you are *completely* missing the point of Free 
+Software. If you are genuinely interested in learning about it and 
+understanding what it stands for, I strongly suggest you spend some time 
+reading the texts on the GNU project's "philosophy" page:
+http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/
+But I suspect you're only trolling... :(
+
+Finally, for those who still have questions about NeL's license, don't 
+forget: the GPL FAQ is your friend !
+http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html
+
+Hope this helps !
+
+O.
+
+
+
+
+
+-- Nevrax --
+Olivier Lejade
+CEO and co-founder
+www.nevrax.com
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Wed Jul  4 15:48:12 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f64DmBX95572
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:48:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc252.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f64DhwI75653
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 15:43:58 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010704151107.00c02760@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:43:12 +0200
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Italian NeL community
+In-Reply-To: <064f01c10461$84a7e8e0$024510ac@valerio>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At 10:15 AM 7/4/01 +0200, you wrote:
+>I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com
+
+Nice site.
+It's a pity my Italian is so lousy: it seems interesting too.
+
+>This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new 
+>section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of 
+>code and the like.
+>Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in supporting 
+>this initiative?
+
+Well to be honest, I have no idea if it would be useful...
+But if *you* think some Italian-only speaking people would be interested, 
+then sure: go for it ! :)
+And if you go so far as to translate some NeL docs and stuff, I'm sure Yan 
+would be happy to make some space for them on the official NeL website.
+Here at Nevrax, we're focusing on an international, english speaking 
+community, but it would be cool to have localized forums elsewhere.
+
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Wed Jul  4 16:06:51 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f64E6pX95815
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:06:51 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc252.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f64E2bI75911
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:02:37 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010704155021.00c09510@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 16:01:52 +0200
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Subject: [Nel] GPL & Nevrax
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+BTW, we put it on the website but we forgot to tell you guys. We formed an 
+advisory board for Nevrax:
+http://nevrax.com/press/board.php
+and Richard Stallman agreed to be on the board (a premiere AFAIK).
+He serves as our moral authority regarding Free Software, so I guess that 
+we can safely say we are pretty well advised as far as the GPL is 
+concerned... ;)
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jul  5 16:41:01 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65Ef1X09039
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:41:01 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f65EalI87394
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:36:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:36:47 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi everybody!
+
+Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+
+Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+thought and discuss about this.
+
+On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+(other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+
+There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems
+here:
+https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php
+
+As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+
+In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr Thu Jul  5 17:03:42 2001
+Received: from buffalo.ens-lyon.fr (buffalo.ens-lyon.fr [140.77.1.8])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65F3gX09252
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:03:42 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr)
+Received: from woodstock (woodstock [140.77.11.50])
+	by buffalo.ens-lyon.fr (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f65ExSb08921
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:59:28 +0200 (MET DST)
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:59:27 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: Yann Morvan <ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr>
+X-Sender: ymorvan@woodstock
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+In-Reply-To: <01061613290801.10787@localhost.localdomain>
+Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0107051648040.13853-100000@woodstock>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've read the thread on MUD-Dev and some people here,
+who seem to be quite experienced, say that TCP is not a
+good choice for client/server communication when there are
+many users and with real time constraints and it seems reasonable
+since TCP implements re-emit mecanisms which are irrelevent
+if the resent data doesn't matter anymore. They
+say that UDP is a better choice, though EA and AC designed their own
+layer. I am not a network expert but I think it would be wise to ponder
+things thoroughly on that point, but I realize that designing one's own
+layer (even using UDP as a starting point) is probably quite a hard task.
+
+	Yann 
+
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Jul  5 17:03:44 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiternew.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65F3hX09256
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:03:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA05872
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:59:10 +0200 (MET DST)
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:00:13 +0200
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <8623106706.20010705170013@teleaction.de>
+To: Vianney Lecroart <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+In-reply-To: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Sorry, I'm not the network guru at all, so may be it looks childish ...
+I think you should implement  minimum error checking protocol -
+1. Client sends UDP data to the server
+2. Client wait for confirmation from other end what data was received (use some
+UID for packets to send back as confirmation)
+3. If some timeout expired without confirmation, then client resends its data again
+
+Thursday, July 05, 2001, 4:36:47 PM, you wrote:
+
+VL> Hi everybody!
+
+VL> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+
+VL> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+VL> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+VL> thought and discuss about this.
+
+VL> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+VL> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+VL> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+VL> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+
+VL> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems
+VL> here:
+VL> https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php
+
+VL> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+VL> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+VL> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+
+VL> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+VL> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+VL> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+
+VL> Vianney Lecroart
+VL> ---
+VL> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+VL> icq#: 6870415
+VL> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+VL> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+VL> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+VL> _______________________________________________
+VL> Nel mailing list
+VL> Nel@nevrax.org
+VL> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Thu Jul  5 17:05:23 2001
+Received: from smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr (smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr [212.180.1.69])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65F5NX09277
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:05:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from cblt@cblt.org)
+Received: from mx1.mail.easynet.fr (slb-1-sippriv.mail.easynet.fr [10.0.1.57])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  5 Jul 2001 17:01:09 +0200 (CEST)
+Received: from cblt.org (nemo-gw.nemo.com [212.180.94.137])
+	by mx1.mail.easynet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321B9B6A5
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  5 Jul 2001 17:01:08 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3B4480FF.7000409@cblt.org>
+Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:00:15 +0200
+From: Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+
+You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP.
+If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea.
+
+in "effective TCP/IP Programming" Jon C. Snader says
+in
+Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP
+Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP
+
+Ok, i'm not very useful in this conversation but
+i'm not (yet :)) a network guru ....
+
+I'm interest by answer from other people.
+
+> 
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+> 
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Thu Jul  5 17:07:00 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f65F6xX09287
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:06:59 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 17870 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 14:58:18 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 14:58:18 -0000
+Message-ID: <019c01c10563$91ba2040$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:02:54 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+You already know my position :)
+
+UDP for everything except datas that should get through reliably and that
+aren't making a great impact on gaming speed, like chat, which should be
+reliable (i don't really want to lose pieces of discussion throughout the
+net) but that it's not critical to be delivered without lag.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:36 PM
+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+
+
+> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+>
+> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+> thought and discuss about this.
+
+
+
+From novalis@novalis.org Thu Jul  5 17:21:01 2001
+Received: from charger.oldcity.dca.net (charger.oldcity.dca.net [207.245.82.76])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f65FL0X09528
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:21:01 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from novalis@novalis.org)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:16:45 -0400
+Message-ID: <3B448467.253F8ADA@novalis.org>
+Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:14:47 -0400
+From: Dave Turner <novalis@novalis.org>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, pdf
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+
+Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> Hi everybody!
+> 
+> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+> 
+> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+> thought and discuss about this.
+> 
+> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+> 
+> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems
+> here:
+> https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php
+> 
+> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+> 
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+> 
+> Vianney Lecroart
+
+There's often a lot of lag at the beginning of a UDP "connection" (yes,
+I know UDP doesn't have those).  Then gateways, which consider UDP to
+have higher priority, remember that there's a connection, and things
+start going faster.  Your tests should be written with this in mind.  
+
+You might also want to look into XUDP, 
+http://www.gweep.net/~rocko/XUDP_Paper/paper.html
+
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+"I would say our forefathers would have been ashamed, but they were 
+slave owners." - Slashdot Anonymous Coward.  Bring Pug back!
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Jul  5 17:49:09 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiternew.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
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+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:45:39 +0200
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
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+Message-ID: <17125832931.20010705174539@teleaction.de>
+To: Valerio Santinelli <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+In-reply-To: <019c01c10563$91ba2040$024510ac@valerio>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+ <019c01c10563$91ba2040$024510ac@valerio>
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+
+Just facts:
+We  run  relatively large chat server with our own server software. We
+use  TCP  for all communications between Java clients and server-side.
+At  peak-load  time we have 2000 opened TCP-sockets at once. Profiling
+shows  up  what most of CPU time server performs write().
+And finally SW and HW - we use SunOS 5.7 aka Solaris7
+Our homemade software written in C++ utilize 2,5 CPU out of 4 in our
+Sun Enterprise Server 450 with 4 CPU and 1G RAM
+May  be  someone  have  the  similar  service on UDP and can share his
+statistic ?
+
+--
+Dim Segebart
+
+
+
+From archer@frmug.org Thu Jul  5 17:54:51 2001
+Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252])
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+Message-ID: <20010705175031.26112@frmug.org>
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:50:31 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3B4480FF.7000409@cblt.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <3B4480FF.7000409@cblt.org>; from Nicolas Hognon on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 05:00:15PM +0200
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+
+According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> > As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> > but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> > more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+> 
+> You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP.
+> If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea.
+
+Hi. And first, I confirm I'm the same Vincent Archer that had @nevrax.com,
+but I no longer work there. Just resubscribed in time to see the discussion.
+
+I had a vulgarisation post on the topic on one yahoogroups (Dark Age of
+Camelot), but you can't access it without subscribing, so I'll summarise
+the thing.
+
+> Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP
+> Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP
+
+That's good advice... if you have the objectives of TCP in mind. You don't.
+In theory.
+
+Pros of TCP:
+
+- Reliable
+- Optimised over 20 years of programming
+- Fast for development
+- Most of the firewalls/telecom eqpt out hereare optimised for TCP protocols;
+  I know several IP providers who drop anything non-TCP based first when they
+  suffer congestion on their routers.
+
+Cons of TCP:
+
+- TCP is stream-based, the unit is the byte. You need to provide your own
+  packet framing, as you may, with one read call, catch part of a packet,
+  an entire packet, or multiple packets at the same time.
+- TCP has its own model for retransmission of data; you have minimal to no
+  input on that model's behaviour. And the model is geared to the transmission
+  of bulk data. There is one bit to indicate "interactive data" in the TCP
+  protocol; no common equipment I know out there uses or checks that bit.
+- TCP is strictly sequential: there is no way to access data "as soon as
+  received", or to ignore/discard "obsolete data": each data chunk must be
+  received, processed (at least at the framing level 5 layer, if you follow
+  the OSI layer model) before the next one.
+
+The last item in the list is what makes everyone look toward UDP (or any
+other IP-level protocol in fact, but routers and firewalls are usually
+disposed to treat more kindly UDP protocols than pure IP ones) for any
+application with real time constraints where:
+
+1: The exact ordering of data isn't a strong requirement
+2: The immediate processing of received data is highly desirable
+
+The real trap, as you underline, is when people design their own protocol
+over UDP and end up using the same - unconscious - model as TCP; this
+often leads to a "poor man's TCP" protocol that address none of the cons
+while providing none of the pros.
+
+To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the
+data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e. meaning)
+of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you
+cannot plug in a "random UDP protocol" in your app (in this case, the
+client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in
+complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go directly
+to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already
+made and tested.
+
+Then, there's the whole problem of kernel resources devoted to TCP stack.
+I pass here; I'm not a kernel developper.
+
+(but anyone who plays AO knows the problems you can have merely to *connect*
+ to the game at times)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From archer@frmug.org Thu Jul  5 18:09:00 2001
+Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252])
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+Message-ID: <20010705180442.12223@frmug.org>
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:04:42 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>; from Vianney Lecroart on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 04:36:47PM +0200
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Vianney Lecroart:
+> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+
+
+This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of
+AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the
+real "problem".
+
+I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience
+"bad lag" (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution).
+However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag.
+
+They still chat with each other.
+
+And I've done checking with tcpdump: you do not talk directly between clients.
+Everything goes thru the AO servers.
+
+My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service
+model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a
+zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported
+by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service
+crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and
+randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning
+(zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection timeout -
+ you get "Area Change not initiated on server).
+
+So you have:
+
+Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP ----> Zone server
+                          ^                  /
+                          |                 /
+                          V                /
+Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP -/
+
+which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there
+appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens
+communication to zone servers. :(
+
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+
+Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under TCP :)
+(you lose connection first)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From zane@supernova.org Thu Jul  5 19:12:41 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
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+Message-ID: <00c301c10575$10cf2d10$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3B4480FF.7000409@cblt.org> <20010705175031.26112@frmug.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:08:09 -0700
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+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:50 AM
+
+
+> To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the
+> data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e.
+meaning)
+> of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you
+> cannot plug in a "random UDP protocol" in your app (in this case, the
+> client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in
+> complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go
+directly
+> to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already
+> made and tested.
+
+I don't believe that this is entirely true.  Let's look at what we need out
+of a protocol for NeL:
+
+1)  Know what data HAS to be delivered and what data doesn't really.
+2)  Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large
+chunk of data
+at once or out of order. (If the data is spread out, not read in one call to
+the network object, then we don't need to know if it can be overwritten, and
+in order  the game engine will overwrite it if it's the same class of data)
+
+Problem one is very easy to solve, we simply use a priority argument when
+sending data with our network object.  In this case high priority data could
+be sent via TCP and low priority data could be sent via UDP.
+
+Problem two really isn't all that hard to solve either.  Perhaps we have a
+'class' argument whend sending data via our network object.  When a packet
+is sent it includes it's data class and a serial number, both client and
+server keep track of both.  When we recieve data we check the class and
+serial number.  If the serial number is out of sequence and the data is
+considered old for that class then it's discarded, otherwise it's accepted.
+If the data has no class (class is set to 0) then all data is accepted and
+the serial number isn't checked.
+
+The only problem I see is mainting the large list of data classes.  Really I
+don't think it's that much of a problem and wether or not you're using this
+model if you do discarding of data you'll be doing class checking in some
+form anyway.
+
+I'm sure the rest of you will point out the many other flaws I don't see.
+:P
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Thu Jul  5 21:09:38 2001
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+Message-ID: <00d301c10585$683ef430$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20010705180442.12223@frmug.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:05:07 -0700
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+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:04 AM
+
+
+> This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of
+> AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the
+> real "problem".
+>
+> I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience
+> "bad lag" (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution).
+> However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag.
+
+I also play AO but every time I've experienced real "bad lag" you cannot sit
+or do any action that requires server-side confirmation including ALL chat
+channels.  In fact, I frequently will say something or shout something so
+that I know as soon as it shows up it's done lagging and this works like a
+charm.  What they're experiencing is a different type of lag than is
+discussed in the above post, that's when a particular zone they're in lags
+(or the server hosting that zone) but not all servers are affected.  I
+haven't experienced that type of lag since beta.
+
+As a side note I've noticed that when I get the "bad lag" others around me
+appear to get it too (at least sometimes) which lends weight to the packet
+storm theory.
+
+> My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service
+> model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a
+> zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported
+> by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service
+> crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and
+> randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning
+> (zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection
+timeout -
+>  you get "Area Change not initiated on server).
+>
+> So you have:
+>
+> Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP ----> Zone server
+>                           ^                  /
+>                           |                 /
+>                           V                /
+> Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP -/
+>
+> which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there
+> appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens
+> communication to zone servers. :(
+
+There doesn't need to be one front-end per client.  There can be several
+load-balanced front-ends that handle multiple clients each.  The major
+problem with this is if one front-end crashes all those clients get dropped
+(although under UNIX (I haven't been able to get win32 to do this) you can
+pull some funky sockets tricks and recover from a crash without dropping
+most players, just majorly lagging them & loosing some updates).
+
+The good side to this is you only need one connection per client per
+protocol (so 2 connections if using both TCP and UDP).  Unfortunately with
+TCP that's both a pro and a con.  With one TCP connection a dropped packet
+on a chat message delays all other TCP traffic, but it also lessens
+bandwidth and server resources over multiple connections (larger, more
+efficient packets).  Also, with a single front end you can have as many
+seperate services as you want without having to have a ton of different
+connections to the client.
+
+Regardless, we have no data as to wether or not AO is doing it that way.
+Maybe tonight I'll run it in windowed mode and check netstat.  If we've got
+more than one active TCP connection to Funcom servers than that model
+probably isn't what they're using.
+
+On a side note, using multiple TCP connections would eliminate some of the
+packet-loss latency issues at the cost of increased bandwidth.  Say you have
+one connection for chat channels, one for inventory & stat handling, one for
+world actions and one for combat.  If connection 1 drops a packet its lag
+won't affect the other connections as much.  But of course if they all drop
+packets at the same time we get the packet storm problem again. :)
+
+> Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under
+TCP :)
+> (you lose connection first)
+
+Yes but TCP has latency issues, UDP has packet-loss issues.  Why can't we
+have the uber protocol that has neither??? :)
+
+BTW, does anyone know if ipv6 has addressed this issue?  I'm aware of QoS
+but not sure to what degree they've taken it.  Personally I think the only
+way we could get garunteed delivery with low latency is to have each router
+along the way garuntee a packet is delivered (if, of course, it's load
+allows that packet to be accepted in the first place).  That way if a packet
+is dropped by a router due to load (or some other issue) the previous router
+expects a timely response and when it doesn't get one it resends or sends
+via a different route.  (Of course I would expect a per-packet ack, probably
+a CRC-ack for a certain amount of traffic)  The point being the original
+sender should never have to resend as long as the first router gets all the
+packets.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+From David.Mentre@inria.fr Fri Jul  6 10:25:07 2001
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+X-Authentication-Warning: pochi.inria.fr: mentre set sender to David.Mentre@inria.fr using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@inria.fr>
+Date: 06 Jul 2001 09:54:59 +0200
+In-Reply-To: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <qtlith67ar0.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Lines: 48
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+From all other posters, it seems that performance result is highly
+dependent on implementation. So to make the Really Good Choice(tm), you
+should have both and choose according to *figures*. So I would do that
+in the following order :
+ 
+ 1. design a "packet sending" layer which allows messages
+    sending/receiving with semantics in mind (see Vincent's post in the
+    same thread). Maybe NeL has already that, I haven't check the
+    source, sorry.
+
+ 2. implement this layer using TCP. Should be straightforward.
+
+   => gives you a backup implementation
+
+   => gives you basic performance figures
+
+ 3. design and implement UDP implementation_s_ with various
+    requirements depending on the following parameters:
+
+     - packet loss or not
+
+     - in order delivery or not
+
+    You could start from the easiest (packet loss && out of order <=>
+    raw UDP) and incrementally develop more complicated ones.
+
+ 4. substitute parts of TCP implementation (chat, position packets, ...)
+    with the corresponding UDP based protocol
+
+ 5. implement a benchmark and test, test, test, ... ; then go to step 4
+    and loop
+
+
+Ok. I don't propose any line of code so you could directly throw this
+post to /dev/null but you asked for comments. ;)
+
+BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to
+reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it
+may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax
+on some spare partition to try to "enter the loop".
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From alfred@mazuma.net.au Fri Jul  6 11:38:30 2001
+Received: from mailin3.email.bigpond.com (juicer24.bigpond.com [139.134.6.34])
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+Message-ID: <006101c105ff$e2071980$4201a8c0@vic.bigpond.net.au>
+From: "alfred" <alfred@mazuma.net.au>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:41:50 +1000
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+You *must* replace your transport mechanism with UDP :)
+
+TCP provides (nah, ensures) reliable delivery of data, but it can spend a
+long time transmitting (especially on clogged up links). Between packet
+errors and backoffs due to packet drops it can easily take 2seconds plus to
+get data down the "tcp pipe". And seeing its a pipe, everything behind it is
+"backed" up. So, time critical data can't just jump past useless data (like
+MOTD's,etc).
+
+With UDP on the otherhand, you lose the reliable data, but you get your
+timeliness. Because of the datagram nature of transmission, you can also
+implement independant "streams", with reliablity on some streams (via extra
+software layers) and timeliness on others (auto drop of old data for eg).
+
+Btw, you cannot "design your own layer", because you need to use the
+existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP).
+However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to
+provide "reliable udp" (its almost trivial to do).
+
+Any, UDP is the only option that is sensible for anything that has time
+critical performance or for things with mutliple "data channels".
+
+BTW, I do stuff like this for a living (I am a network researched for
+www.dsto.defence.gov.au), with a fair bit of work in the voice arena, so I
+have some experience backing me up here :)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:36 AM
+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+
+
+> Hi everybody!
+>
+> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+>
+> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+> thought and discuss about this.
+>
+> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and
+server
+> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+>
+> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these
+problems
+> here:
+> https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php
+>
+> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+>
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o?
+K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From archer@frmug.org Fri Jul  6 13:52:51 2001
+Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f66BqkN01538
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+	(envelope-from archer)
+Message-ID: <20010706134853.08077@frmug.org>
+Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:48:53 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20010705180442.12223@frmug.org> <00d301c10585$683ef430$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <00d301c10585$683ef430$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from Zane on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 12:05:07PM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Zane:
+> I also play AO but every time I've experienced real "bad lag" you cannot sit
+> or do any action that requires server-side confirmation including ALL chat
+> channels.  In fact, I frequently will say something or shout something so
+
+I wasn't referring to chat channels. I was referring to /tell commands. Who,
+apparently, works (sometimes) while the rest is in limbo.
+
+As there is no detectable client-client communication, this shows that the
+lag problem is sometimes/often an intra-server lag, not a client-server
+lag.
+
+At other times, everything freezes up, as you experience.
+
+> Regardless, we have no data as to wether or not AO is doing it that way.
+> Maybe tonight I'll run it in windowed mode and check netstat.  If we've got
+> more than one active TCP connection to Funcom servers than that model
+> probably isn't what they're using.
+
+I've done a tcpdump. There are 2 connexions I've seen used. One goes to the
+login service (dimension load/character selection). The other goes to the
+game service frontend. I haven't found out if you disconnect/reconnect from
+the game service; I suspect not.
+
+I'm maybe my graphics (love ansi art) should have put "client A", and "client
+B". I was suggesting different clients, each connected to a separate process
+that handle their frontend, not parallel TCP streams.
+
+> Yes but TCP has latency issues, UDP has packet-loss issues.  Why can't we
+> have the uber protocol that has neither??? :)
+
+RDP. Proposed 20 years ago, never ever used :)
+
+> BTW, does anyone know if ipv6 has addressed this issue?  I'm aware of QoS
+> but not sure to what degree they've taken it.  Personally I think the only
+
+QoS in IPV6 is a lot better than the V4 version. At least, it uses more than
+two bits in the header :)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From archer@frmug.org Fri Jul  6 14:01:14 2001
+Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252])
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+	(envelope-from archer)
+Message-ID: <20010706135724.12856@frmug.org>
+Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 13:57:24 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3B4480FF.7000409@cblt.org> <20010705175031.26112@frmug.org> <00c301c10575$10cf2d10$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <00c301c10575$10cf2d10$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from Zane on Thu, Jul 05, 2001 at 10:08:09AM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Zane:
+> I don't believe that this is entirely true.  Let's look at what we need out
+> of a protocol for NeL:
+> 
+> 1)  Know what data HAS to be delivered and what data doesn't really.
+
+That's priority, and bandwidth management. Not really TCP-vs-UDP relevant.
+
+> 2)  Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large
+> chunk of data
+
+The latter requires you to look at the semantics of the data, not just the
+syntax. You have to posit specific types of data, and, for example, you
+don't have to retransmit data type X about object A if it has been already
+sent out, but you have to retransmit data type Y about the same object A.
+
+This quickly require you to tie the protocol to the exact game being made.
+A current 3D coordinate/movement vector does not require retransmission
+(or, at least, not the retransmission of the same data; you may send back
+ a more up-to-date version), but it automatically implies your game has
+moving 3D objects.
+
+The example above is simple and obvious, but you quickly have to tie a lot
+of knowledge about the game being made *into* the protocol. Making the
+protocol generic enough to handle an "unspecified" game is *hard*. Hard
+enough that I contend that using TCP in that case might be a good
+compromise.
+
+Of course, the more specific (to a game design) your library is, the easier
+it is to make it UDP-optimised.
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Jul  6 20:25:39 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f66IPcN03697
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+Message-ID: <3B4601BF.42F6CEDB@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:21:51 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.6 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <006101c105ff$e2071980$4201a8c0@vic.bigpond.net.au>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Btw, you cannot "design your own layer", because you need to use the
+> existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP).
+> However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to
+> provide "reliable udp" (its almost trivial to do).
+
+But do you need 'reliable transmission' ? Lost or delayed packets are
+part of the rules, couldn't you take this into account in your network
+and game code design ? Have a look at the streaming pb and protocols
+such as RTP or RTSP, they deal with the pb of 1) time sync and 2) data
+loss. This is sometime perfectly acceptable to loose some info in
+a game and replace it with interpolated data until getting back in
+sync.
+
+From zane@supernova.org Fri Jul  6 21:03:36 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
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+Message-ID: <000c01c1064d$c70904b0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3B4480FF.7000409@cblt.org> <20010705175031.26112@frmug.org> <00c301c10575$10cf2d10$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010706135724.12856@frmug.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:59:26 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 4:57 AM
+
+
+> That's priority, and bandwidth management. Not really TCP-vs-UDP relevant.
+
+Yes, but what I'm saying is knowing that is a feature of the network object
+I was discussing further into the message.
+
+> > 2)  Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large
+> > chunk of data
+>
+> The latter requires you to look at the semantics of the data, not just the
+> syntax. You have to posit specific types of data, and, for example, you
+> don't have to retransmit data type X about object A if it has been already
+> sent out, but you have to retransmit data type Y about the same object A.
+
+I don't mean to be confrontational but did you even read the rest of my
+message?  With the network object I was discussing you pass data to be sent
+to the client with Priority and data class.  The user of the object sets up
+the classes in a manner such that the network object is aware of the classes
+(in this case a simple enum would be enough).  Here's an example:
+
+You want to pass property X of object A to the client.  You don't care if it
+gets there or not.  You then pass the data to the network object with a low
+priority and a class corresponding to the type of data property X is.
+
+You want to pass property Y of object A to the client and you need to ensure
+that it gets there.  You then pass the data to the network object with a
+high priority (and no class).
+
+> This quickly require you to tie the protocol to the exact game being made.
+> A current 3D coordinate/movement vector does not require retransmission
+> (or, at least, not the retransmission of the same data; you may send back
+>  a more up-to-date version), but it automatically implies your game has
+> moving 3D objects.
+
+The network object I described doesn't need to know anything other than data
+class and priority.  Both of those items are determined by the engine.  The
+only special knowledge the network object needs is the list of data classes.
+
+Please re-read my e-mail.
+
+In case the original wasn't clear enough the object itself decides which
+protocol to use based on priority.  High priority data would use TCP and low
+would use UDP with of course an additional header in the packet.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+From svferro@earthlink.net Sat Jul  7 00:33:49 2001
+Received: from harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12])
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+Message-ID: <00af01c1066b$96801bd0$0200a8c0@celery>
+From: "Sal" <svferro@earthlink.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:32:46 -0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+
+    I've coded small scale 3d client/server systems in both TCP and UDP
+while developing software for Worldforge, and have playtested both systems.
+The end result was that UDP gameplay just seemed smoother, especially under
+low latency/bad connections.  Even when I had inserted code to purposely
+drop packets, gameplay was still surprisingly bearable.
+
+    On my LAN or for persons with fast links to the server TCP was not
+really noticeably slower, though.  So with very low latency, and little
+packet loss TCP would be the better choice, but unfortunately that isn't the
+case for the internet just yet.  A lot of people are behind slow links,
+shared internet connections, or in unfortunate locations... for some people
+overseas my TCP-based software was almost unplayable, where UDP was still at
+least minimally usable.  If you guys do end up benchmarking TCP vs. UDP, be
+sure to test over a simulated low-latency, and/or 'noisy' link.  Drop
+packets randomly, simulate possible internet conditions.  I'm sure you will
+come to the same results I did.
+
+    The majority of problems I've had with UDP are firewall related. And
+they were almost all serverside, ie a person trying to run a UDP server
+behind a firewall and unable to map ports/etc. to let clients connect.
+Clientside, however there was very little trouble, it worked through my
+ipmasq firewall without problems, for one, and others had been testing
+behind firewalls also.
+
+    However, a bit of 'reinventing TCP' was needed for the reliable data.
+This is unavoidable, some messages need to be sent and can't be
+ignored/dropped. And I agree that the OS's TCP implementation is probably
+more efficient than one drawn up for a video game.  But I don't think using
+both UDP and TCP is worth the trouble to gain a reliable data transmission
+stream.  I just don't think the performance improvement would be significant
+enough to justify the implementation... Let me explain why I think so.
+
+    Now, say you were sending a 10 MB file over the internet to a friend.
+_Every_ packet must make it to the peer or the file would be corrupt. Every
+packet must be acknowledged somehow, using some crc, sequence number... etc.
+I haven't looked at any actual TCP implementation's source code, but I'll
+bet it does all sorts of compromising between packet transmission and
+acknowledgement frequency,  message sizes, etc. and over the course of
+sending 10 Million packets (ok, maybe less for a 10 MB file)  it probably
+saves a considerable amount of time over some dumb UDP code that
+acknowledges say, every 10 packets or some other simplistic mechanism.
+
+    Yes, in that situation, reinventing TCP would be a bad idea... and yes,
+it is definately a better choice than UDP, which in fact is why almost every
+internet protocol uses TCP.  But in our case we aren't sending a 10MB file,
+we're sending short messages to tell the client/server something important.
+ie a 'player X has died' message, which could be maybe a dozen bytes in
+size. All the fancy optimization that an OS's TCP stack does over the course
+of time wouldn't be of much use here.  Also, in sending a 10MB file you dont
+care about latency, and you know what the next few thousand packets are
+going to consist of beforehand, whereas in a video game this is not the
+case. The optimizations TCP gives you would only take effect if you were
+sending large, continuous blocks of data.
+
+    So for the gameplay networking layer I suggest UDP.  The only exception
+in my opinion is for things like automatic client-patching, or downloading
+of media.  In that case,  having the client make an HTTP connection to a web
+server, or something similair is a *much* better choice than using the
+'gameplay networking' layer to send this data.
+
+    The software I spoke of here is all in Worldforge's (www.worldforge.org)
+CVS repository.  The software I tested with was XClient, and XServer, which
+are both in CVS.
+
+    The UDP networking library I created and used in XClient/XServer, which
+I recommend taking a look at, is called 'XUDP' (not the library that Dave
+posted about, but has the same name :-/) is also in Worldforge CVS. I
+extracted the UDP networking code from the GPLed Quake1 src, and converted
+it into a general C++ OO UDP networking library. It contains code for both
+reliable and unreliable transmission of data.  Credit should go mostly to
+John Carmack of Id software for the code. I just abstracted, and tweaked a
+bit for use in an MMORPG setting. It might be helpful if you guys decide to
+go with UDP for Nel.
+
+    Anyway, sorry for the long winded rant. Hope this helps some, and keep
+up the great work!
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Sun Jul  8 16:59:11 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f68ExBP00301
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:59:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f68EtIH00350
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:18 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:10 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFGECMCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+Subject: [Nel] Power cut
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main
+trip switch cut out during an electrical storm.
+They should be back up now.
+
+Daniel
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Sun Jul  8 18:48:05 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f68Gm5P00872
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:48:05 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f68GiHH00752
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:44:17 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:44:09 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCECNCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <00af01c1066b$96801bd0$0200a8c0@celery>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've been reading this thread with great interest.  There's clearly a good
+case for using UDP for low priority or short life-span data.  In this case
+the app software on top of NeL must clearly be designed with the fact that
+some data isn't going to get through in mind.
+
+The problem is particularly interesting because:
+1. The limiting factor on the amount of data we transmit looks like being
+the cost of output bandwidth for the servers.
+- as far as I can ascertain, at today's costs we're looking at something
+like 8-16 kilobits per client per second maximum output from the servers
+(including lost packets)
+2. The complexity of the scenes that we are trying to convey to the clients
+is rising fast.
+- view distances are increasing, as are screen resolutions which means that
+you can see more dynamic world content at any given time (characters,
+creatures, objects...)
+- It is clear that for MMORPGs we wil soon need to be able to display crouds
+or armies of 100s or even 1000s of characters and creatures at once.
+- Character animation is becoming more complicated to reflect a mix of
+actions performed simultaneously (such as speaking with emotional facial
+expression and manipulating an object in one's hands while sitting down) -
+which means more information to describe each character's state.
+- and so on...
+
+These two points combined mean that, whichever way one looks at it, a lot of
+scene information will have to be filtered out or sent at low frequency.  If
+one isn't careful low frequency sends can obviously be very sensitive to
+packet loss - which leads me to the point of this posting: In order to work
+the problem we need to have a good understanding of true internet behaviour
+and to have a good set of test data for simulating it.
+
+The trouble right now is that I have no hard data to use to model packet
+loss or delivery latency over time. If anybody knows of any studies that
+have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested. In
+particular I'm interested in moderately bad connections that exhibit both
+good behaviour and bad behaviour over time.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel
+
+
+
+From jcosby@gscyclone.com Sun Jul  8 19:32:20 2001
+Received: from smtp.gscyclone.com (server2.gscyclone.com [209.36.53.41])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f68HWFP01088
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:32:20 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from jcosby@gscyclone.com)
+Received: (apparently) from jc2 ([12.25.141.5]) by smtp.gscyclone.com  with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.447.44);
+	 Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:25:14 -0400
+Message-ID: <000701c107d3$5ca38a00$058d190c@gscyclone.net>
+From: "John Cosby" <jcosby@gscyclone.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCECNCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:28:04 -0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The US Dept. of Defense has been doing simulation for decades.  When I first
+read this thread, I though of my years-ago experience in Distributed
+Interactive Simulation (DIS) and its successor, the High-Level Artchitecture
+for Simulation (HLA).  Although designed primarily for LANs, both have been
+successfully been used over WANs.
+
+DIS is a protocol defined atop UDP.  Derived from work in the 70s, it's a
+bit-level definition of Ethernet packets, the most important of which is the
+Entity State Protocol Data Unit (PDU), which describes in all detail
+necessary for rendering one particular simulation entity and was rebroadcast
+whenever something changed over a configurable threshold (direction change,
+speed, etc.) or a max waiting time occurred (5 secs).  Members of the
+simulation were responsible for receiving and filtering things they cared
+about, dead-reckoning the motion based on PDU updates, and broadcasting the
+ES PDUs they were responsible for whenever the dead-reckoning thresholds
+were hit or the entities timed out.  Other PDUs describe weapons fire,
+detonation, weather effects, etc.  DIS was originally broadcast UDP.
+
+HLA was an OO approach to simulation where Entities published Events, and
+subscribed to Events that other Entities published.  It's based on classes,
+and some reference object models are available.
+
+There's a lot of stuff published about these topics, and an experience base
+that's studied many of the concerns brought up.  Check the US Defense
+Modeling and SImulation office (www.dmso.mil) and their HLA site
+(www.dmso.mil/hla).  Also check the Simulation Interoperability Workshop
+(http://www.sisostds.org/siw/) for lots of interesting topics and papers -
+these people have been working on creating worlds for a long time.
+
+-John
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: Daniel Miller <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:44 PM
+Subject: RE: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+
+> These two points combined mean that, whichever way one looks at it, a lot
+of
+> scene information will have to be filtered out or sent at low frequency.
+If
+> one isn't careful low frequency sends can obviously be very sensitive to
+> packet loss - which leads me to the point of this posting: In order to
+work
+> the problem we need to have a good understanding of true internet
+behaviour
+> and to have a good set of test data for simulating it.
+>
+> The trouble right now is that I have no hard data to use to model packet
+> loss or delivery latency over time. If anybody knows of any studies that
+> have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested. In
+> particular I'm interested in moderately bad connections that exhibit both
+> good behaviour and bad behaviour over time.
+
+
+
+From archer@frmug.org Sun Jul  8 21:53:00 2001
+Received: from frmug.org (frmug-gw.frmug.org [193.56.58.252])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f68JqxP01749
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:52:59 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer@frmug.org)
+Received: (from archer@localhost)
+	by frmug.org (8.9.3/frmug-2.7/nospam) id VAA03917;
+	Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:49:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from archer)
+Message-ID: <20010708214902.64212@frmug.org>
+Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:49:02 +0200
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Power cut
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFGECMCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88.14i
+In-Reply-To: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFGECMCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>; from Daniel Miller on Sun, Jul 08, 2001 at 04:55:10PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Daniel Miller:
+> Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main
+> trip switch cut out during an electrical storm.
+> They should be back up now.
+
+You weren't alone; the mail server I use, which is located 200m as the crow
+flies from Nevrax, went down at the same time, and back up... almost at the
+same time :)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From alfred@mazuma.net.au Mon Jul  9 09:26:27 2001
+Received: from mailin2.email.bigpond.com (juicer14.bigpond.com [139.134.6.23])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f697QPP05359
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:26:26 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from alfred@mazuma.net.au)
+Received: from mazuma.net.au ([144.135.24.84]) by
+          mailin2.email.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with
+          SMTP id GG73F000.48M for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001
+          17:28:12 +1000 
+Received: from CPE-61-9-148-130.vic.bigpond.net.au ([61.9.148.130]) by bwmam06.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V2.9g 8341/12554076); 09 Jul 2001 17:22:20
+Message-ID: <3B495CCD.2060304@mazuma.net.au>
+Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 17:27:09 +1000
+From: alfred <alfred@mazuma.net.au>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010628
+X-Accept-Language: en-us
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCECNCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <000701c107d3$5ca38a00$058d190c@gscyclone.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+DIS and HLA are not solutions for a MMORPG's. They were designed around 
+LAN topologies, and there is an implicit assumption about latencies and 
+bandwidths available. HLA itself is pretty ugly, as all it describes is 
+a framework for a simulation "federate", it still requires lots of 
+specification to get things to talk (I am working with some DIS stuff 
+right now, related to wargaming for the Aust. Defence Dept, and trying 
+to intergrate some comms reality into the system).
+The other problem with DIS is the amount of bytes it uses on the wire, 
+its pretty heavy....
+
+
+Gaming requires specific solutions to the problems of latency and 
+bandwidths due to the adhoc nature of gaming (anyone can play, you can't 
+pre-determine optimal toplogies) and because gamers always want the 
+bleeding edge.
+
+I think nevrax should roll their own protocol, with a mix of udp, r-udp 
+and tcp based on some kind of "traffic class" scheme. Shouldn't be too 
+hard to design a nice OO schema to make this easy to use :)
+
+As for simulating bad links, I hear "The Cloud" (http://www.shunra.com/) 
+can be a very useful tool. It can simulate WAN links between two 
+ethernet segments. Useful to stress the networking sublayer to see what 
+higher level effects you get. Other similar tools can be found on this 
+page (http://www.topology.org/soft/sim.html).
+
+I don't know of any papers that have "characterised" the performance of 
+the net, and I suspect that this is because it is such an agile beast. 
+ From my own experience I regularly get 2-3sec pings from AU to the US, 
+and 10-30% packet loss is not unheard of. Perhaps some "VoIP" studies 
+exist that provide a more analytical analysis? Or even some backbone 
+providers stats pages?
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+John Cosby wrote:
+
+> The US Dept. of Defense has been doing simulation for decades.  When I first
+> read this thread, I though of my years-ago experience in Distributed
+> Interactive Simulation (DIS) and its successor, the High-Level Artchitecture
+> for Simulation (HLA).  Although designed primarily for LANs, both have been
+> successfully been used over WANs.
+> 
+> DIS is a protocol defined atop UDP.  Derived from work in the 70s, it's a
+> bit-level definition of Ethernet packets, the most important of which is the
+> Entity State Protocol Data Unit (PDU), which describes in all detail
+> necessary for rendering one particular simulation entity and was rebroadcast
+> whenever something changed over a configurable threshold (direction change,
+> speed, etc.) or a max waiting time occurred (5 secs).  Members of the
+> simulation were responsible for receiving and filtering things they cared
+> about, dead-reckoning the motion based on PDU updates, and broadcasting the
+> ES PDUs they were responsible for whenever the dead-reckoning thresholds
+> were hit or the entities timed out.  Other PDUs describe weapons fire,
+> detonation, weather effects, etc.  DIS was originally broadcast UDP.
+> 
+> HLA was an OO approach to simulation where Entities published Events, and
+> subscribed to Events that other Entities published.  It's based on classes,
+> and some reference object models are available.
+> 
+> There's a lot of stuff published about these topics, and an experience base
+> that's studied many of the concerns brought up.  Check the US Defense
+> Modeling and SImulation office (www.dmso.mil) and their HLA site
+> (www.dmso.mil/hla).  Also check the Simulation Interoperability Workshop
+> (http://www.sisostds.org/siw/) for lots of interesting topics and papers -
+> these people have been working on creating worlds for a long time.
+> 
+> -John
+> 
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: Daniel Miller <miller@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 12:44 PM
+> Subject: RE: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+> 
+> 
+>>These two points combined mean that, whichever way one looks at it, a lot
+>>
+> of
+> 
+>>scene information will have to be filtered out or sent at low frequency.
+>>
+> If
+> 
+>>one isn't careful low frequency sends can obviously be very sensitive to
+>>packet loss - which leads me to the point of this posting: In order to
+>>
+> work
+> 
+>>the problem we need to have a good understanding of true internet
+>>
+> behaviour
+> 
+>>and to have a good set of test data for simulating it.
+>>
+>>The trouble right now is that I have no hard data to use to model packet
+>>loss or delivery latency over time. If anybody knows of any studies that
+>>have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested. In
+>>particular I'm interested in moderately bad connections that exhibit both
+>>good behaviour and bad behaviour over time.
+>>
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Mon Jul  9 13:04:46 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f69B4kP06753
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:04:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010709124915.00c51a70@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:00:11 +0200
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+In-Reply-To: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFCECNCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+References: <00af01c1066b$96801bd0$0200a8c0@celery>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At 06:44 PM 7/8/01 +0200, you wrote:
+>If anybody knows of any studies that
+>have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested.
+
+You should absolutely take a look at CiteSeer:
+http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs
+There's always tons of interesting stuff in there.
+
+Or, you could also try the old pfd search:
+http://searchpdf.adobe.com/
+
+
+
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Jul 10 17:12:44 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6AFChP16460
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:12:43 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008b01c10952$3ba74230$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <qtlith67ar0.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:08:53 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi David,
+
+> BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to
+> reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it
+> may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax
+> on some spare partition to try to "enter the loop".
+
+Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or
+greater
+We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to install
+external library like STLport and Freetype as explains in the INSTALL
+file in the NeL root directory.
+We plan to modify the configure.in to enable the compilation without STLport
+but
+we have to be sure that NeL works compile correctly without STLport!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Jul 10 19:22:45 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6AHMiP17217
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:22:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6AHItH22066
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:18:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00ab01c10964$65c31d70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:18:55 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Login System Game
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi everybody!
+
+We just launch our new game! no, no, please, keep cool, it's not THE game,
+but a little game for geeks/nerds/hackers :-)
+
+On the server named itsalive.nevrax.org, we have launch a shard with:
+login_service, naming_service, admin_executor_service, admin_service,
+time_service, welcome_service and a frontend_service.
+
+The goal of the game is: to crash/hack everything on this server (and only
+this one please ;-)
+
+We put the real login system to connect to the front end, so one goal is to
+successfully connect to the front end *without* login/password
+or to find a failure in the login procedure.
+
+You can find the documentation about how the login system works here:
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/login_system.html
+
+In the CVS directory "nel/samples/login_sytem/"
+(http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/login_system/),
+you'll find the client source that is used to connect to the shard and
+also the frontend service code (that does nothing) that is running on
+itsalive.
+The client uses a configuration file (client.cfg) that contains the ip
+address of the login service
+and the login and password you want to provide. If the login doesn't exist,
+it will be added to the
+database with the password associate to it and the next time, you'll need to
+provide the good password
+to validate the login.
+
+All others services sources running on itsalive are located here:
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nelns/
+
+Our goal is know if our login system is robust or not.
+
+You can do everything you want to crash a service, all services or the
+computer but, please,
+explain us what you did to enable us to fix the problem!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From David.Mentre@inria.fr Wed Jul 11 09:27:30 2001
+Received: from nez-perce.inria.fr (nez-perce.inria.fr [192.93.2.78])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6B7RUP21817
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:27:30 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from David.Mentre@inria.fr)
+Received: from pochi.inria.fr (pochi.inria.fr [128.93.8.128])
+	by nez-perce.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) with ESMTP id f6B7NeX13142
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:23:40 +0200 (MET DST)
+Received: (from mentre@localhost)
+	by pochi.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.10.0) id f6B7Nep09113;
+	Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:23:40 +0200
+X-Authentication-Warning: pochi.inria.fr: mentre set sender to David.Mentre@inria.fr using -f
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+	<qtlith67ar0.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+	<008b01c10952$3ba74230$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: David Mentre <David.Mentre@inria.fr>
+Date: 11 Jul 2001 09:23:40 +0200
+In-Reply-To: <008b01c10952$3ba74230$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <qtlbsmsornn.fsf@pochi.inria.fr>
+Lines: 14
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.4
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+"Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> We plan to modify the configure.in to enable the compilation without
+> STLport but we have to be sure that NeL works compile correctly
+> without STLport!
+
+STLport is not the most difficult software to install. Anyway, thanks
+for your reply. I'll try to give it a new try.
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+From elanda@hooper.xeme.com Wed Jul 11 19:38:46 2001
+Received: from hooper.xeme.com (adsl-81-59-155.asm.bellsouth.net [65.81.59.155])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6BHchP24721
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 19:38:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from elanda@hooper.xeme.com)
+Received: (from elanda@localhost)
+	by hooper.xeme.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08566
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:34:39 -0400
+In-Reply-To: <008b01c10952$3ba74230$0901a8c0@vianneyl>; from lecroart@nevrax.com on Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 05:08:53PM +0200
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <qtlith67ar0.fsf@pochi.inria.fr> <008b01c10952$3ba74230$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Ed Landa <elanda@xeme.com>
+Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:34:38 -0400
+X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i
+Message-ID: <20010711133438.C6852@xeme.com>
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or
+> greater
+> We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to install
+
+I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in
+one section.  It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug, so
+I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem:
+
+(this isn't pretty, but it looks to me like it is trying to make a STL call
+that doesn't exist)
+
+$ rpm -q gcc
+gcc-2.96-85
+
+make[1]: Entering directory `/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d'
+/bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/
+code/nel/src/3d -I../../include    -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/include/s
+tlport   -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R
+6/include -c tile_bank.cpp
+rm -f .libs/tile_bank.lo
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d -I../../include -I/us
+r/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/include/stlport -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src -
+Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/tile_bank.pp -c ti
+le_bank.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/tile_bank.lo
+../../include/nel/misc/stream.h: In method `void 
+NLMISC::IStream::serialSTLContLen (T &, int) [with T = 
+_STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string> >]':
+tile_bank.cpp:616:   instantiated from here
+../../include/nel/misc/stream.h:570: no matching function for call to 
+`_STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string> 
+>::insert (_STL::_Rb_tree_iterator<string, _STL::_Const_traits<string> 
+>)'
+/usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:134: candidates are: 
+_STL::pair<typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, 
+_Compare, _Alloc>::const_iterator, bool> _STL::set<_Key, _Compare, 
+_Alloc>::insert (const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare = 
+_STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>]
+/usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:139:                 typename 
+_STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare, 
+_Alloc>::const_iterator _STL::set<_Key, _Compare, _Alloc>::insert 
+(typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare, 
+_Alloc>::const_iterator, const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare = 
+_STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>]
+make[1]: *** [tile_bank.lo] Error 1
+
+
+
+Also, I've put together a .spec file for making a STLport RPM.  If anyone wants
+it, just drop me a line.
+
+Ed
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Wed Jul 11 23:49:14 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6BLnCP25992
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:49:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734E439DE
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:45:22 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3B4CC8F1.91EE0EC6@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:45:21 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.6 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux compiling
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <qtlith67ar0.fsf@pochi.inria.fr> <008b01c10952$3ba74230$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20010711133438.C6852@xeme.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Ed Landa wrote:
+> 
+> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in
+> one section.  It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug, so
+> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem:
+
+Be sure to use the latest beta labeled '0619', it fixes some nasty bugs
+of the 4.5b7 (http://www.stlport.org/beta/STLport-0619.tar.gz).
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Jul 12 09:35:50 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6C7ZoP29140
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:35:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc23 (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6C7W0H36923
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:32:00 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001001c10aa4$bd264240$1701a8c0@nevrax.net>
+From: "Cyril Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004a01c1055f$eb6a2a80$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <qtlith67ar0.fsf@pochi.inria.fr> <008b01c10952$3ba74230$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20010711133438.C6852@xeme.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)
+Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:32:00 +0200
+Organization: Nevrax
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+This error is a NeL compilation error, not a STLport version problem.
+This should be fixed now. Thanks for the report.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Ed Landa" <elanda@xeme.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 7:34 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)
+
+
+> > Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or
+> > greater
+> > We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to
+install
+>
+> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in
+> one section.  It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug,
+so
+> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem:
+>
+> (this isn't pretty, but it looks to me like it is trying to make a STL
+call
+> that doesn't exist)
+>
+> $ rpm -q gcc
+> gcc-2.96-85
+>
+> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d'
+> /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/
+>
+code/nel/src/3d -I../../include    -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/inclu
+de/s
+>
+tlport   -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/
+X11R
+> 6/include -c tile_bank.cpp
+> rm -f .libs/tile_bank.lo
+>
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d -I../../include -
+I/us
+>
+r/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/include/stlport -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/s
+rc -
+>
+Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/tile_bank.pp -
+c ti
+> le_bank.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/tile_bank.lo
+> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h: In method `void
+> NLMISC::IStream::serialSTLContLen (T &, int) [with T =
+> _STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string> >]':
+> tile_bank.cpp:616:   instantiated from here
+> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h:570: no matching function for call to
+> `_STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string>
+> >::insert (_STL::_Rb_tree_iterator<string, _STL::_Const_traits<string>
+> >)'
+> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:134: candidates are:
+> _STL::pair<typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>,
+> _Compare, _Alloc>::const_iterator, bool> _STL::set<_Key, _Compare,
+> _Alloc>::insert (const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare =
+> _STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>]
+> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:139:                 typename
+> _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare,
+> _Alloc>::const_iterator _STL::set<_Key, _Compare, _Alloc>::insert
+> (typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare,
+> _Alloc>::const_iterator, const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare =
+> _STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>]
+> make[1]: *** [tile_bank.lo] Error 1
+>
+>
+>
+> Also, I've put together a .spec file for making a STLport RPM.  If anyone
+wants
+> it, just drop me a line.
+>
+> Ed
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From xordoquy@aurora-linux.com Fri Jul 13 12:17:14 2001
+Received: from mailhost.aurora-linux.com (mailhost.aurora-linux.com [212.81.103.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6DAHDP37263
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:17:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from xordoquy@aurora-linux.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:23:08 GMT
+From: Xavier Ordoquy <xordoquy@aurora-linux.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain
+X-Mailer: Evolution/0.10 (Preview Release)
+Date: 13 Jul 2001 12:23:08 +0200
+Message-Id: <995019788.5699.2.camel@ilaws>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AMaViS 0.2.1 (http://amavis.org/)
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball client trouble
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2
+When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet
+size.
+I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't
+connect it and tries to reach the default serveur.
+How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg
+file ?)
+
+Thanks.
+
+-- 
+ Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux
+ If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question.
+ Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does.
+                              (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal)
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Jul 13 13:52:24 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6DBqNP37716
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:52:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6DBmVH50196
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:48:31 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00af01c10b91$bd07c110$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <995019788.5699.2.camel@ilaws>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball client trouble
+Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:48:31 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Xavier,
+
+I think you should try to install it on NT ;-) nice signature
+
+Snowballs 0.2 is really deprecated and you should wait the next week for
+Snowball 2!
+
+Anyway, it's in the client.cfg file that you specify where the server is:
+LSHost = "localhost";
+If you put this in the client.cfg, the client will connect to your localhost
+login system
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Xavier Ordoquy" <xordoquy@aurora-linux.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:23 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball client trouble
+
+
+> Hi,
+>
+> I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2
+> When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet
+> size.
+> I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't
+> connect it and tries to reach the default serveur.
+> How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg
+> file ?)
+>
+> Thanks.
+>
+> --
+>  Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux
+>  If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question.
+>  Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does.
+>                               (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal)
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Mon Jul 16 09:34:00 2001
+Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6G7Y0d00224
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:34:00 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from chello.se ([193.150.204.195]) by smtp1.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 license a695420e49f967727839f4bc091d7585)
+          with ESMTP id <20010715095648.XDYN17677.smtp1@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:56:48 +0200
+Message-ID: <3B5169B8.900@chello.se>
+Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:00:24 +0200
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9) Gecko/20010505
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+When i ping it i get:
+Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+
+When i traceroute i get:
+pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+9.447 ms
+  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+43.382 ms
+   48.619 ms
+  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+  45.381
+ms  48.53 ms
+  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+  52.145
+ms  60.492 ms
+11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+48.3 ms
+12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+  55.997
+ms
+13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+53.683 ms
+   47.798 ms
+14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+69.684 ms
+  59.31 ms
+15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+ms  93.71
+3 ms
+16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+ms  81.68
+2 ms
+18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+85.816 ms
+19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms 
+100.501 ms
+20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+115.294 ms
+21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+ms  135
+.302 ms
+22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+116.263 m
+s
+23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+ms  132
+.275 ms
+24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+131.91 ms
+25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+ms  143
+.39 ms
+26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+142.631 m
+s
+27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+ms  160
+.689 ms
+28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+158.716 m
+s
+29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+ms  175
+.634 ms
+30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+174.412 ms
+
+It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between 
+relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+
+/David
+
+
+From david.belius@chello.se Mon Jul 16 09:34:00 2001
+Received: from smtp1.chello.se (smtp1.chello.se [193.150.195.10])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6G7Y0d00224
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:34:00 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from david.belius@chello.se)
+Received: from chello.se ([193.150.204.195]) by smtp1.chello.se
+          (InterMail vK.4.03.00.00 201-232-121 license a695420e49f967727839f4bc091d7585)
+          with ESMTP id <20010715095648.XDYN17677.smtp1@chello.se>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:56:48 +0200
+Message-ID: <3B5169B8.900@chello.se>
+Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:00:24 +0200
+From: david.belius@chello.se
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9) Gecko/20010505
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+When i ping it i get:
+Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+
+When i traceroute i get:
+pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+9.447 ms
+  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+43.382 ms
+   48.619 ms
+  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+  45.381
+ms  48.53 ms
+  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+  52.145
+ms  60.492 ms
+11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+48.3 ms
+12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+  55.997
+ms
+13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+53.683 ms
+   47.798 ms
+14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+69.684 ms
+  59.31 ms
+15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+ms  93.71
+3 ms
+16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+ms  81.68
+2 ms
+18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+85.816 ms
+19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms 
+100.501 ms
+20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+115.294 ms
+21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+ms  135
+.302 ms
+22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+116.263 m
+s
+23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+ms  132
+.275 ms
+24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+131.91 ms
+25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+ms  143
+.39 ms
+26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+142.631 m
+s
+27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+ms  160
+.689 ms
+28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+158.716 m
+s
+29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+ms  175
+.634 ms
+30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+174.412 ms
+
+It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between 
+relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+
+/David
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Mon Jul 16 19:56:25 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6GHuOd03468
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:56:25 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6GHqVu11020
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:52:31 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:52:18 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFAEDMCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <3B5169B8.900@chello.se>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thanks for the message.
+For info, the server is up and we have access to the outside world so I'm
+not quite sure what's goign on.
+Colt is our ISP - we're following it up.
+
+Regards
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+david.belius@chello.se
+Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:00 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+When i ping it i get:
+Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+
+When i traceroute i get:
+pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+9.447 ms
+  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+43.382 ms
+   48.619 ms
+  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+  45.381
+ms  48.53 ms
+  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+  52.145
+ms  60.492 ms
+11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+48.3 ms
+12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+  55.997
+ms
+13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+53.683 ms
+   47.798 ms
+14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+69.684 ms
+  59.31 ms
+15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+ms  93.71
+3 ms
+16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+ms  81.68
+2 ms
+18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+85.816 ms
+19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms
+100.501 ms
+20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+115.294 ms
+21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+ms  135
+.302 ms
+22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+116.263 m
+s
+23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+ms  132
+.275 ms
+24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+131.91 ms
+25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+ms  143
+.39 ms
+26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+142.631 m
+s
+27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+ms  160
+.689 ms
+28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+158.716 m
+s
+29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+ms  175
+.634 ms
+30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+174.412 ms
+
+It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between
+relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+
+/David
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From brenden@rcsis.com Tue Jul 17 05:03:08 2001
+Received: from smtp.rcsis.com (smtp.surewest.net [208.45.228.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6H337d06534
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 05:03:07 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from brenden@rcsis.com)
+Received: from brenden2001towe (118.dsl6660144.DHCP.surewest.net [66.60.144.118])
+	by smtp.rcsis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25389
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:48:30 -0700
+Message-ID: <001001c10e6c$e3d61700$76903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+From: "Brenden Towey" <brenden@rcsis.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:02:18 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com).
+
+I didn't get a traceroute...
+
+Brenden
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: david.belius@chello.se <david.belius@chello.se>
+To: nel@nevrax.org <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+>I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+>When i ping it i get:
+>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+>
+>When i traceroute i get:
+>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+>  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+>9.447 ms
+>  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+>  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+>  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+>  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+>  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+>  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+>43.382 ms
+>   48.619 ms
+>  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+>  45.381
+>ms  48.53 ms
+>  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+>10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+>  52.145
+>ms  60.492 ms
+>11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+>48.3 ms
+>12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+>  55.997
+>ms
+>13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+>53.683 ms
+>   47.798 ms
+>14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+>69.684 ms
+>  59.31 ms
+>15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+>ms  93.71
+>3 ms
+>16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+>17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+>ms  81.68
+>2 ms
+>18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+>85.816 ms
+>19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms 
+>100.501 ms
+>20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+>115.294 ms
+>21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+>ms  135
+>.302 ms
+>22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+>116.263 m
+>s
+>23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+>ms  132
+>.275 ms
+>24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+>131.91 ms
+>25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+>ms  143
+>.39 ms
+>26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+>142.631 m
+>s
+>27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+>ms  160
+>.689 ms
+>28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+>158.716 m
+>s
+>29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+>ms  175
+>.634 ms
+>30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+>174.412 ms
+>
+>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between 
+>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+>
+>/David
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Tue Jul 17 09:40:47 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6H7ekd08057
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:40:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6H7aqu13124
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:36:52 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:36:40 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <001001c10e6c$e3d61700$76903c42@brenden2001towe.rcsis.com>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thanks for the info.
+If anyone else has trouble it would be much appreciated if you could let us
+know.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel
+
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Brenden Towey
+Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:02 AM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com).
+
+I didn't get a traceroute...
+
+Brenden
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: david.belius@chello.se <david.belius@chello.se>
+To: nel@nevrax.org <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+>I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+>When i ping it i get:
+>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+>
+>When i traceroute i get:
+>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+>  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+>9.447 ms
+>  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+>  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+>  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+>  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+>  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+>  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+>43.382 ms
+>   48.619 ms
+>  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+>  45.381
+>ms  48.53 ms
+>  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+>10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+>  52.145
+>ms  60.492 ms
+>11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+>48.3 ms
+>12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+>  55.997
+>ms
+>13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+>53.683 ms
+>   47.798 ms
+>14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+>69.684 ms
+>  59.31 ms
+>15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+>ms  93.71
+>3 ms
+>16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+>17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+>ms  81.68
+>2 ms
+>18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+>85.816 ms
+>19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms
+>100.501 ms
+>20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+>115.294 ms
+>21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+>ms  135
+>.302 ms
+>22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+>116.263 m
+>s
+>23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+>ms  132
+>.275 ms
+>24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+>131.91 ms
+>25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+>ms  143
+>.39 ms
+>26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+>142.631 m
+>s
+>27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+>ms  160
+>.689 ms
+>28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+>158.716 m
+>s
+>29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+>ms  175
+>.634 ms
+>30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+>174.412 ms
+>
+>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between
+>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+>
+>/David
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From dupre_julien@yahoo.fr Tue Jul 17 16:55:58 2001
+Received: from web4104.mail.yahoo.com (web4104.mail.yahoo.com [216.115.104.124])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6HEtud10656
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:55:57 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from dupre_julien@yahoo.fr)
+Message-ID: <20010717145159.7040.qmail@web4104.mail.yahoo.com>
+Received: from [130.208.198.54] by web4104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:51:59 CEST
+Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:51:59 +0200 (CEST)
+From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?= <dupre_julien@yahoo.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <00ab01c10964$65c31d70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] pacs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi, 
+I was wondering if anyone had a exemple of how to
+use the pacs service ( exept from pacs_service.cpp),
+or if more documentation about pacs (tahn on the 
+nevrax site)could be found somewhere?
+Thanx,
+Jul.
+
+___________________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!? -- Vos albums photos en ligne, 
+Yahoo! Photos : http://fr.photos.yahoo.com
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Jul 19 14:08:01 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6JC81d45441
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:08:01 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6JC44u38173
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:04:05 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003c01c1104a$e7ad6790$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010717145159.7040.qmail@web4104.mail.yahoo.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] pacs
+Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:04:03 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> I was wondering if anyone had a exemple of how to
+> use the pacs service ( exept from pacs_service.cpp),
+> or if more documentation about pacs (tahn on the
+> nevrax site)could be found somewhere?
+
+A sample has been added in NeL to show how to use PACS library using
+the PACS user interface (we recommand to not use the pacs service).
+This sample is located in nel/samples/pacs.
+
+It doesn't show how to manage collisions against the landscape but this will
+come
+soon.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Thu Jul 19 14:33:12 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6JCXBd45706
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:33:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA2691029
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:29:14 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3B56D2CC.D3F6C078@packetport.com>
+Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:30:04 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <20010717145159.7040.qmail@web4104.mail.yahoo.com> <003c01c1104a$e7ad6790$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball 2.0?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+ I'm curious as to the progress of SnowBall and it's compatability with
+the latest version of nel.  Has the team stableized things in the
+interface to a point where a new version could be done or should we see
+more inteface re-defineing changes in the future that could strongly
+affect any projects desired to be based off of it?
+
+  Also, how's the progress on the 3d rendering engine?  At home I have a
+p3 800 but only a tnt2 ultra video card with 32mb ram.  Will nel
+eventually be developed to support that weak a model of graphics card? 
+At least there should be some options of disableing a lot of 'special
+affects' to help speed up the game in question.  And we all know that it
+should be able to deal with 100 active actors on screen at one time.
+(Stress test)  But how possable does that look in the near future?
+
+  Tony
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jul 19 15:18:47 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6JDIkd45999
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:18:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f6JDEou39352
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:14:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006501c11054$ca781850$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20010717145159.7040.qmail@web4104.mail.yahoo.com> <003c01c1104a$e7ad6790$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <3B56D2CC.D3F6C078@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball 2.0?
+Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:14:50 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Tony,
+
+> I'm curious as to the progress of SnowBall and it's compatability with
+> the latest version of nel.
+
+The Snowball is out of date. It doesn't compile with NeL since we change lot
+of things in the user interface. We (Cedric Valignat, Benjamin Legros and I)
+work on the new snowball called Snowballs2. In this version, we rewrite
+everything from scratch (except lens flare and radar) with the current NeL
+interface. There's a simple (14 cpp files) client explain how to use NeL.
+It uses lot of stuffs from NeL like Particule system, Animation, Skeleton,
+Skinning, Landscape, Collision, Network, etc...
+So it will be a good tutorial or starting point to use NeL.
+We plan to release it soon (before the end of the next week) and we actually
+work on the server side and 3d datas integration.
+
+> Has the team stableized things in the
+> interface to a point where a new version could be done or should we see
+> more inteface re-defineing changes in the future that could strongly
+> affect any projects desired to be based off of it?
+
+The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We
+plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current
+user interface doesn't change often anyway.
+
+>   Also, how's the progress on the 3d rendering engine?  At home I have a
+> p3 800 but only a tnt2 ultra video card with 32mb ram.  Will nel
+> eventually be developed to support that weak a model of graphics card?
+
+> At least there should be some options of disableing a lot of 'special
+> affects' to help speed up the game in question.  And we all know that it
+> should be able to deal with 100 active actors on screen at one time.
+> (Stress test)  But how possable does that look in the near future?
+
+I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Thu Jul 19 15:46:54 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6JDkrd46178
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:46:53 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA2704715
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:42:56 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3B56E412.971E922C@packetport.com>
+Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:43:46 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball 2.0?
+References: <20010717145159.7040.qmail@web4104.mail.yahoo.com> <003c01c1104a$e7ad6790$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <3B56D2CC.D3F6C078@packetport.com> <006501c11054$ca781850$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vianney Lecroart wrote: 
+
+  I've read some of the logs to this newsgroup so I knew about the
+issues with the current SnowBall.  I would like to give NEL a try but I
+was hopeing a more full version example would help me more :-) But yes,
+i'll look at the tutorials some more to see how this sdk works.
+
+> The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We
+> plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current
+> user interface doesn't change often anyway.
+
+  I'm a little confused here.  Basicly what I want to know is, if I
+write code for nel now, how strong is the possablity of me having to
+re-write that code to take into the count of changes in function
+definitions?  now i know the code must evolve and change, but if I start
+writing an application with the sdk, and every two months i need to make
+major revisions to keep up with the latest and greatest, I may pause
+some before starting development.  How possable is it to see a lock on
+the headers?
+ 
+> I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :)
+
+  Also, anyone hear about this new technology Verant Interactive is
+going to be using for EQ1.5? (ie, the upcomeing expansion)  I hear it's
+supposed to help make online games work a hell of a lot faster.  But
+what is it?
+
+  Tony
+
+From zane@supernova.org Tue Aug  7 20:11:05 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f77IAiJ67666
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:11:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
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+	id MR7V9LMF; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:06:28 -0700
+Message-ID: <018d01c11f6b$8a460190$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:05:28 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] STLPort, again. :)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+It's been a while since I last compiled NeL but I'm now trying to compile
+the latest CVS version of NeL and configure is saying STLPort isn't found.
+STLPort 4.0 is installed and the old configure was able to find it using the
+same options (I am doing --with-stlport=/usr/include/stlport) but the new
+configure is saying it's not installed (I'm the same shell script with the
+configure options for both, so there are no typos or missing options, both
+configures were ran the exact same way on the same system today).  Is the
+latest CVS version relying on a newer version of STLPort or is there a bug
+with the latest configure script?
+
+Thanks,
+E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Tue Aug  7 21:20:43 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f77JKgJ68055
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:20:42 +0200 (CEST)
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+	id MR7V9LVQ; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:16:28 -0700
+Message-ID: <019401c11f75$4fefe100$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <018d01c11f6b$8a460190$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort, again. :)
+Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:15:25 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:05 AM
+
+
+> It's been a while since I last compiled NeL but I'm now trying to compile
+> the latest CVS version of NeL and configure is saying STLPort isn't found.
+> STLPort 4.0 is installed and the old configure was able to find it using
+the
+> same options (I am doing --with-stlport=/usr/include/stlport) but the new
+> configure is saying it's not installed (I'm the same shell script with the
+> configure options for both, so there are no typos or missing options, both
+> configures were ran the exact same way on the same system today).  Is the
+> latest CVS version relying on a newer version of STLPort or is there a bug
+> with the latest configure script?
+
+It seems that either the --with-stlport-include is a new configure option or
+recently the configure script has been changed to append /include to
+your --with-stlport path if you don't specify --with-stlport-include.
+ If --with-stlport-include is a new option then it should be using
+the --with-stlport path without modification unless it's explicitly
+specified.  The default distribution of STLport doesn't even have/create an
+include directory for the header files, it's STLport-4.0/stlport.  Also,
+this change isn't documented in the INSTALL file (still says you just
+need --with-stlport).
+
+From the INSTALL document:
+
+      The "configure" script must be call with the "--with-stlport" and
+      "--with-python" options.
+      The option "--with-stlport" allow to override the default STL headers
+      and the option "--with-python" tell to the configuration script, where
+      to find the Python headers files.
+
+It specifically states that the --with-stlport option points to the STL
+header files so --with-stlport-include seems redundant.
+ Either --with-stlport should be removed (so we're left
+with --with-stlport-include and --with-stlport-lib)
+or --with-stlport-include should be removed or at the very least /include
+should not be appended to the --with-stlport option.
+
+Thanks,
+E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Wed Aug  8 00:16:29 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f77MGCJ68999
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:16:28 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
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+	id MR7V9MPF; Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:11:59 -0700
+Message-ID: <01af01c11f8d$d3f170f0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:10:54 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+In code/nel/src/3d/coarse_mesh_manager.h on line 98 an enum is being
+declared with a value of 0xffffffffffffffff which is 32 bits too long for
+i386 Linux.  Changing the definition to (~0U) will give you 0xffffffff on 32
+bit and 0xffffffffffffffff on 64 bit.
+
+After this change and the problem with configure was worked around NeL
+compiled fine on my system.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Aug  8 09:38:03 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f787c3J72323
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:38:03 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f787XtZ77979
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:33:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001d01c11fdc$7d7dd7f0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <01af01c11f8d$d3f170f0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h
+Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:34:00 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Zane,
+
+I will fixe this problem on the CVS. Thank you for the report.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+> In code/nel/src/3d/coarse_mesh_manager.h on line 98 an enum is being
+> declared with a value of 0xffffffffffffffff which is 32 bits too long for
+> i386 Linux.  Changing the definition to (~0U) will give you 0xffffffff on
+32
+> bit and 0xffffffffffffffff on 64 bit.
+
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Aug  8 12:47:43 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f78AlhJ73301
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:47:43 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f78AhYZ80050
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:43:34 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:43:34 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort, again. :)
+Message-ID: <20010808124333.A36919@nevrax.com>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <018d01c11f6b$8a460190$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <018d01c11f6b$8a460190$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from zane@supernova.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 11:05:28AM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+
+Zane wrote:
+> 
+> [...]
+> configures were ran the exact same way on the same system today).  Is the
+> latest CVS version relying on a newer version of STLPort or is there a bug
+> with the latest configure script?
+
+I changed NeL and NeLNS configure.in files recently and i forgot to commit
+the new INSTALL file and send a mail about it ... sorry ...
+
+Now you have 3 options for STLPort. You can either use :
+
+   --with-stlport=<path_to_the_install_directory>
+
+            e.g.: --with-stlport=~/install
+            this will look for headers file in the ~/install/stlport directory
+            and library files in the  ~/install/stlport/lib directory.
+
+or
+
+   --with-stlport-include=<path_to_the_headers_directory>
+            
+            e.g.: --with-stlport-include=~/install/stlport
+            this will look for the header files in the ~/install/stlport
+            directory
+
+   --with-stlport-lib=<path_to_the_lib_directory>
+
+            e.g.: --with-stlport-lib=~/install/lib
+            this will look for the library files in the ~/install/lib directory
+
+Actually if you are using --with-stlport-include you must use
+--with-stlport-lib too ... i will fix that for a situation like yours where
+libraries files are installed in a default directory like /usr
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Aug  8 12:56:35 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f78AuZJ73382
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:52:27 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:52:27 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort, again. :)
+Message-ID: <20010808125227.B36919@nevrax.com>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <018d01c11f6b$8a460190$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <019401c11f75$4fefe100$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <019401c11f75$4fefe100$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from zane@supernova.org on Tue, Aug 07, 2001 at 12:15:25PM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Zane wrote:
+> 
+> The default distribution of STLport doesn't even have/create an
+> include directory for the header files, it's STLport-4.0/stlport.  Also,
+> this change isn't documented in the INSTALL file (still says you just
+> need --with-stlport).
+
+I've just fixed that bug ...
+
+> It specifically states that the --with-stlport option points to the STL
+> header files so --with-stlport-include seems redundant.
+
+You can either use --with-stlport OR --with-stlport-include and
+--with-stlport-lib. 
+
+--with-stlport will automaticly set CFLAGS and LIB variables to the specified
+directory with /stlport (for the header file) and /lib appended.
+
+
+Thanks for pointing use probelms :-)
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Aug  9 19:13:03 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f79HD0J82306
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:08:48 +0200 (CEST)
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+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f79H8mk64822
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:08:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:08:48 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010809190848.A22413@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Configure's options
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi All,
+
+
+I've made some additions to the configure script.
+
+It's now possible to desactivate the compilation and installation process of
+some part of NeL (network, 3d, PACS, etc ...) by using configure's options
+--disable-<module>.
+
+Every dependance is managed. ex: if you desactivate the 3d, the X checking
+and the Freetype checking will not block the configure script so there is
+no more meeds to install them on your computer if you don't need them.
+
+So if you decide to build only some server softs (like NeLNS) you may compile
+only NeL Net, ex :
+
+   $ ./configure --disable-3d --disable-pacs [...]
+
+
+The default is :
+
+   - misc
+        default: Mandatory
+
+   - net
+        default: Enables
+        desativate with: --disable-net
+
+   - 3d
+        default: Enable
+        desativate with: --disable-3d
+
+   - pacs
+        default: Enable
+        desativate with: --disable-pacs
+
+   - sound
+        default: Disable
+        ativate with: --enable-sound
+
+   - ai
+        default: Disable
+        ativate with: --enable-ai
+
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Fri Aug 10 20:24:33 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7AIOVJ93949
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:24:33 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
+Received: from IS64E003 ([172.18.51.157]) by xchnghq2.mmsa.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
+	id MR7V94J7; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:20:16 -0700
+Message-ID: <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:18:51 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've been able to compile NeL without errors for a few days now but when I
+try to compile NeLNS using the newly compiled version of NeL I get the
+following errors:
+
+login_service.o: In function `readPlayerDatabase(void)':
+login_service.o(.text+0x1f56): undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+login_service.o(.text+0x2af6): undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+login_service.o: In function `CLoginService::init(void)':
+login_service.o(.CLoginService::gnu.linkonce.t.init(void)+0x163): undefined
+reference to `NLMISC::CConfigFile::load(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CIFile::CIFile(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+__default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &, bool)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnelnet.so: undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CBufFIFO::front(_STL::vector<unsigned char,
+_STL::allocator<unsigned char> > &)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CIFile::open(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+__default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &, bool)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::Exception::Exception(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+__default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnelnet.so: undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(_STL::vector<unsigned char, _STL::allocator<unsigned
+char> > const &, _STL::vector<unsigned char, _STL::allocator<unsigned char>
+> const &)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnelnet.so: undefined reference to
+`NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(_STL::vector<unsigned char, _STL::allocator<unsigned
+char> > const &)'
+
+Here are the corresponding entries in the newly compiled library
+(libnelmisc.a):
+
+000020f0 T NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(basic_string<char,
+string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+00001e5c T NLMISC::CConfigFile::load(basic_string<char,
+string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+         U NLMISC::CIFile::CIFile(basic_string<char,
+string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &, bool)
+00000158 T NLMISC::CIFile::CIFile(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &, bool)
+000000dc T NLMISC::CBufFIFO::front(vector<unsigned char, allocator<unsigned
+char> > &)
+         U NLMISC::CIFile::open(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+__default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &, bool)
+00000394 T NLMISC::CIFile::open(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &, bool)
+         U NLMISC::CIFile::open(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &, bool)
+00000a64 t global destructors keyed to
+NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+__default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+00000a4c t global constructors keyed to
+NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+__default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+00000000 T NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(basic_string<char,
+string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+         U NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)
+000008f8 T NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(vector<unsigned char, allocator<unsigned
+char> > const &)
+00000000 T NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(vector<unsigned char, allocator<unsigned
+char> > const &, vector<unsigned char, allocator<unsigned char> > const &)
+-------------------
+
+All of this was just on the first service I tried to compile so I'm sure
+that the other libraries have similar problems.  A little info on my system:
+
+Debian Linux
+GCC 2.95.4
+ld 2.11.90.0.24
+autoconf 2.52c
+automake 1.4k
+libtool 1.4c
+STLPort 4.0
+Freetype 2.0.1
+
+Thanks,
+E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From alex_tibbles@yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 12 00:14:16 2001
+Received: from web12601.mail.yahoo.com (web12601.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.224])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7BMEGJ05782
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:14:16 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from alex_tibbles@yahoo.co.uk)
+Message-ID: <20010811221004.59203.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
+Received: from [213.1.131.17] by web12601.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:10:04 BST
+Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:10:04 +0100 (BST)
+From: =?iso-8859-1?q?alex?= <alex_tibbles@yahoo.co.uk>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] This isnt really the place but
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+There is no email address on the main website. Sorry.
+
+I'm very interested in reading the Nel docs, but
+wouldn't mind some offline browsing - similarly CVS is
+OK if you have a reliable connection and a good
+frontend. I would really appreciate the docs (and
+source, too) being available tarred and comressed for
+swift download.
+
+Thanks
+alex
+
+____________________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
+or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Aug 15 11:49:50 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7F9nnJ33893
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:49:49 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f7F9jaZ43657
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:45:36 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:45:36 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Zane,
+
+I compiled NeL and NeLNS yesterday without any problem on our gnu/linux
+computer.
+It seems that the problem is that you compiled NeL *without* STLPort, so the
+first parameter of the getVar function is basic_string
+
+> NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(basic_string<char,string_char_traits<char>,
+__default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+
+but you tried to compile NeLNS (login service) *with* STLPort, so the linker
+try to find the getVar function with the first parameter is
+_STL::basic_string
+
+>
+NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(_STL::basic_string<char,_STL::char_traits<char>,
+_STL::allocator<char> > const &)
+
+I think you should try to compile *all* (NeL + NeLNS) with or without
+STLPort but not only the half and it should be ok.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 8:18 PM
+Subject: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+
+
+> I've been able to compile NeL without errors for a few days now but when I
+> try to compile NeLNS using the newly compiled version of NeL I get the
+> following errors:
+>
+> login_service.o: In function `readPlayerDatabase(void)':
+> login_service.o(.text+0x1f56): undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+> login_service.o(.text+0x2af6): undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+> login_service.o: In function `CLoginService::init(void)':
+> login_service.o(.CLoginService::gnu.linkonce.t.init(void)+0x163):
+undefined
+> reference to `NLMISC::CConfigFile::load(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CIFile::CIFile(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+> __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &, bool)'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnelnet.so: undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CBufFIFO::front(_STL::vector<unsigned char,
+> _STL::allocator<unsigned char> > &)'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CIFile::open(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+> __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &, bool)'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so: undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::Exception::Exception(basic_string<char, string_char_traits<char>,
+> __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnelnet.so: undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(_STL::vector<unsigned char,
+_STL::allocator<unsigned
+> char> > const &, _STL::vector<unsigned char, _STL::allocator<unsigned
+char>
+> > const &)'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnelnet.so: undefined reference to
+> `NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(_STL::vector<unsigned char,
+_STL::allocator<unsigned
+> char> > const &)'
+>
+> Here are the corresponding entries in the newly compiled library
+> (libnelmisc.a):
+>
+> 000020f0 T NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(basic_string<char,
+> string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+> 00001e5c T NLMISC::CConfigFile::load(basic_string<char,
+> string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+>          U NLMISC::CIFile::CIFile(basic_string<char,
+> string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &,
+bool)
+> 00000158 T NLMISC::CIFile::CIFile(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &, bool)
+> 000000dc T NLMISC::CBufFIFO::front(vector<unsigned char,
+allocator<unsigned
+> char> > &)
+>          U NLMISC::CIFile::open(basic_string<char,
+string_char_traits<char>,
+> __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &, bool)
+> 00000394 T NLMISC::CIFile::open(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &, bool)
+>          U NLMISC::CIFile::open(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &, bool)
+> 00000a64 t global destructors keyed to
+> NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(basic_string<char,
+string_char_traits<char>,
+> __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+> 00000a4c t global constructors keyed to
+> NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(basic_string<char,
+string_char_traits<char>,
+> __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+> 00000000 T NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(basic_string<char,
+> string_char_traits<char>, __default_alloc_template<true, 0> > const &)
+>          U NLMISC::CClassRegistry::create(_STL::basic_string<char,
+> _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)
+> 000008f8 T NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(vector<unsigned char, allocator<unsigned
+> char> > const &)
+> 00000000 T NLMISC::CBufFIFO::push(vector<unsigned char, allocator<unsigned
+> char> > const &, vector<unsigned char, allocator<unsigned char> > const &)
+> -------------------
+>
+> All of this was just on the first service I tried to compile so I'm sure
+> that the other libraries have similar problems.  A little info on my
+system:
+>
+> Debian Linux
+> GCC 2.95.4
+> ld 2.11.90.0.24
+> autoconf 2.52c
+> automake 1.4k
+> libtool 1.4c
+> STLPort 4.0
+> Freetype 2.0.1
+>
+> Thanks,
+> E.J. Wilburn
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From ams@freesoft4all.com Wed Aug 15 15:36:16 2001
+Received: from front8.grolier.fr (front8.grolier.fr [194.158.96.58])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7FDaFJ35182
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:36:16 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ams@freesoft4all.com)
+Received: from sirius (lns3-176.arc2.club-internet.fr [213.44.214.176])
+	by front8.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with SMTP id PAA03790
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:31:59 +0200 (MET DST)
+From: ams@freesoft4all.com
+Message-Id: <200108151331.PAA03790@front8.grolier.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
+Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:31:54 +0200
+Subject: [Nel] An E-mail account for 2 years, 5 years, for life ? Avenger Mail System is for you !
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
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+From zane@supernova.org Wed Aug 15 18:25:23 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7FGPMJ36080
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:25:22 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
+Received: from IS64E003 ([172.18.51.157]) by xchnghq2.mmsa.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
+	id MR7V98VT; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:21:03 -0700
+Message-ID: <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:20:03 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:45 AM
+
+
+> I compiled NeL and NeLNS yesterday without any problem on our gnu/linux
+> computer.
+> It seems that the problem is that you compiled NeL *without* STLPort, so
+the
+> first parameter of the getVar function is basic_string
+
+Actually since Monday it's been compiling just fine.  I've always been
+compiling with stlport.  Here's my compile procedure (I run it from a
+script, it was the same Monday as it was Friday when it didn't work):
+
+bootstrap
+configure --with-stlport=/usr/src/STLPort-4.0 --with-freetype=/usr/include/f
+reetype2 --with-python=/usr/include/python-1.5
+make
+
+I have a similar script for NeLNS that uses STLPort. (has the --with-stlport
+option).  If I recall correctly you MUST specifically tell it not to use
+STLPort.  Regardless, some change was made Monday or over the weekend that
+fixed my compiling problem.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Aug 15 18:46:32 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7FGkVJ36222
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:46:31 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f7FGgHZ47881
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:42:17 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007d01c125a9$3ee9b950$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:42:17 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Ok,
+
+So the only reason I see could be in the Makefile or autconf/automake.
+You have to wait Cedric to have an answer about this problem. He should
+comes back from his holiday tomorrow.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:20 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+
+
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:45 AM
+>
+>
+> > I compiled NeL and NeLNS yesterday without any problem on our gnu/linux
+> > computer.
+> > It seems that the problem is that you compiled NeL *without* STLPort, so
+> the
+> > first parameter of the getVar function is basic_string
+>
+> Actually since Monday it's been compiling just fine.  I've always been
+> compiling with stlport.  Here's my compile procedure (I run it from a
+> script, it was the same Monday as it was Friday when it didn't work):
+>
+> bootstrap
+>
+configure --with-stlport=/usr/src/STLPort-4.0 --with-freetype=/usr/include/f
+> reetype2 --with-python=/usr/include/python-1.5
+> make
+>
+> I have a similar script for NeLNS that uses STLPort. (has
+the --with-stlport
+> option).  If I recall correctly you MUST specifically tell it not to use
+> STLPort.  Regardless, some change was made Monday or over the weekend that
+> fixed my compiling problem.
+>
+> -E.J. Wilburn
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Aug 16 15:34:49 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7GDYlJ43397
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:34:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7GDUVZ58541
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:30:31 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f7GDUVY65166
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:30:31 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:30:31 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+Message-ID: <20010816153031.A45508@nevrax.com>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from zane@supernova.org on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 09:20:03AM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Zane,
+
+
+Zane wrote:
+> 
+> Actually since Monday it's been compiling just fine.  I've always been
+> compiling with stlport.  Here's my compile procedure (I run it from a
+> script, it was the same Monday as it was Friday when it didn't work):
+> 
+> bootstrap
+> configure --with-stlport=/usr/src/STLPort-4.0 --with-freetype=/usr/include/f
+> reetype2 --with-python=/usr/include/python-1.5
+> make
+
+It's just working fine on our computers and i can't find it could
+come but from a wrong link PATH, so i have some stupid questions
+for you (sorry for that) :
+
+   - Is your '--with-nel' configure option properly set ?
+   - Did you do, if it's necessary, a make install in NeL ?
+   - Could you send us your script to compile NeLNS ?
+
+I told you that they were stupids :-)
+
+
+> I have a similar script for NeLNS that uses STLPort. (has the --with-stlport
+> option).  If I recall correctly you MUST specifically tell it not to use
+> STLPort.  Regardless, some change was made Monday or over the weekend that
+> fixed my compiling problem.
+
+You'r rigth, the default is to ask for the STLPort ortherwise you have to
+set an option to overide that ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Aug 16 16:37:55 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7GEbtJ43799
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:37:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7GEXfZ59497
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:33:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f7GEXec65644
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:33:40 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] This isnt really the place but
+Message-ID: <20010816163340.B45508@nevrax.com>
+References: <20010811221004.59203.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20010811221004.59203.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com>; from alex_tibbles@yahoo.co.uk on Sat, Aug 11, 2001 at 11:10:04PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+alex wrote:
+> There is no email address on the main website. Sorry.
+
+no problem ...
+
+> I'm very interested in reading the Nel docs, but
+> wouldn't mind some offline browsing - similarly CVS is
+> OK if you have a reliable connection and a good
+> frontend. I would really appreciate the docs (and
+> source, too) being available tarred and comressed for
+> swift download.
+
+Next week i will setup an automatic daily snapshot of the sources
+and of the Doxygen documentation for NeL, NeLNS, etc ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+PS: Sorry if it took a long time to answer your mail ... i was in vacation :-)
+
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From lejade@nevrax.com Thu Aug 23 10:44:53 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N8ir894463
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:44:53 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Received: from pc252.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7N8ebD34063
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:40:37 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lejade@nevrax.com)
+Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010823103033.00c63540@pop.nevrax.net>
+X-Sender: lejade@pop.nevrax.net
+X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:39:38 +0200
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+In-Reply-To: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At 10:28 PM 8/22/01 -0400, you wrote:
+>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game
+>development at this time?
+
+There's a few (and a few more considering the move), but apart from our 
+friends at In-Orbit (www.in-orbit.net), we have been asked not to mention 
+them for the time being. Sorry.
+However we expect that as time goes by and the games are released, more and 
+more companies will hop in the bandwagon...
+best,
+O.
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Thu Aug 23 10:59:18 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7N8xI894561
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:59:18 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 9495 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 08:48:39 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 08:48:39 -0000
+Message-ID: <04ee01c12bb1$487a39a0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:54:56 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_04EB_01C12BC2.0BF6D4A0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_04EB_01C12BC2.0BF6D4A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+We'll start working with NEL late this september. But we're not an =
+official company, we're just a group of amateurs.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Ratskindid@aol.com=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 4:28 AM
+  Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+
+
+  Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game=20
+  development at this time?=20
+  Thanks, Jonathan.=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_04EB_01C12BC2.0BF6D4A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We'll start working with NEL late this =
+september.=20
+But we're not an official company, we're just a group of =
+amateurs.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>--<BR>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedi=
+a.it/</A><BR></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3DRatskindid@aol.com=20
+  href=3D"mailto:Ratskindid@aol.com">Ratskindid@aol.com</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 23, 2001 =
+4:28=20
+  AM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Questions about =
+NeL=20
+  use.</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Anybody =
+know what other=20
+  companies are using the NeL engine in game <BR>development at this =
+time?=20
+  <BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_04EB_01C12BC2.0BF6D4A0--
+
+
+From Ratskindid@aol.com Thu Aug 23 04:32:40 2001
+Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com (imo-r02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.98])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7N2Wd892510
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 04:32:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from Ratskindid@aol.com)
+Received: from Ratskindid@aol.com
+	by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id d.f2.e8a72df (4354)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
+From: Ratskindid@aol.com
+Message-ID: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:28:18 EDT
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary"
+X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10532
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+development at this time?
+Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+<BR>development at this time?
+<BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT></HTML>
+
+--part1_f2.e8a72df.28b5c442_boundary--
+
+From zane@supernova.org Thu Aug 23 19:44:22 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7NHiHl02505
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:44:21 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
+Received: from IS64E003 ([172.18.51.157]) by xchnghq2.mmsa.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
+	id R3ABCN95; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:39:55 -0700
+Message-ID: <014801c12bfa$7dcdc420$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010816153031.A45508@nevrax.com>
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:38:59 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Got an error compiling NeL under Linux, basically a typing problem, here's a
+patch:
+
+diff -r1.2 tcp_sock.cpp
+187c187
+<       int len = sizeof( windowsize );
+---
+>       socklen_t len  = sizeof( windowsize );
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Thu Aug 23 19:57:52 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7NHvpl02569
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:57:51 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
+Received: from IS64E003 ([172.18.51.157]) by xchnghq2.mmsa.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
+	id R3ABC3BC; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:53:30 -0700
+Message-ID: <014d01c12bfc$63506290$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010816153031.A45508@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:52:34 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 6:30 AM
+
+
+> It's just working fine on our computers and i can't find it could
+> come but from a wrong link PATH, so i have some stupid questions
+> for you (sorry for that) :
+>
+>    - Is your '--with-nel' configure option properly set ?
+>    - Did you do, if it's necessary, a make install in NeL ?
+>    - Could you send us your script to compile NeLNS ?
+
+Well I'm was using the same method Monday as I was Friday and it worked on
+Monday (after I updated from CVS) and didn't on Friday.  With my original
+e-mail I attached nm output from the NeL libraries and the functions they
+were looking for in the NeL library were listed but undefined.  The problem
+wasn't how I was building NeLNS, it was that NeLNS was either looking for
+the wrong functions or NeL wasn't properly exporting/defining the right
+functions.  Anyway, here's the script I use for both NeL and NeLNS and they
+both work without changes:
+
+#!/bin/bash
+./bootstrap
+./configure --with-stlport=/usr/src/STLport-4.0 --with-stlport-include=/usr/
+src/STLport-4.0/stlport --
+with-python=/usr/include/python-1.5 --with-freetype=/usr/include/freetype2
+make
+#make install (uncommented in the buildnel script)
+
+I'm not sure what was wrong but something in the Monday (not this Monday but
+the 13th I believe) fixed it.  Not sure if you all want to pursue the issue
+any further since it's working now, I'm not concerned any longer.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Thu Aug 23 20:26:40 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (s1.mmsa.com [205.227.148.7])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7NIQcl02701
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:26:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
+Received: from IS64E003 ([172.18.51.157]) by xchnghq2.mmsa.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
+	id R3ABC3K2; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:22:12 -0700
+Message-ID: <015601c12c00$65c66ed0$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010816153031.A45508@nevrax.com>
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:21:16 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] NeL One more Linux compile problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I've been getting this error for a couple of days now.  I generally don't
+e-mail you all about compilation errors unless I either have a fix or it's
+gone for a couple of days without being fixed.  Here's the error:
+
+make[3]: Entering directory `/root/nel/code/nel/src/3d'
+source='particle_system.cpp' object='particle_system.lo' libtool=yes \
+depfile='.deps/particle_system.Plo' tmpdepfile='.deps/particle_system.TPlo'
+\
+depmode=gcc /bin/sh ../../depcomp \
+/bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile
+g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include    -I../../src -I/usr/include/fr
+eetype2 -I/usr/src/STLport-4.0/stlport -O3   -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/
+usr/X11R6/include -c -o particle_system.lo `test -f particle_system.cpp ||
+echo './'`particle_system.cpp
+g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../src -I/usr/include/freet
+ype2 -I/usr/src/STLport-4.0/stlport -O3 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X
+11R6/include -c
+article_system.cpp -Wp,-MD,.deps/particle_system.TPlo  -fPIC -DPIC -o
+.libs/particle_system.o
+particle_system.cpp: In method `void
+NL3D::CParticleSystem::unregisterLocatedBindableExternID(NL3D::CPSLocatedBin
+dable *)':
+particle_system.cpp:467: `iterator_category' undeclared in namespace `_STL'
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Thu Aug 23 22:35:13 2001
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7NKZCl03365
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:35:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zane@supernova.org)
+Received: from IS64E003 ([172.18.51.157]) by xchnghq2.mmsa.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13)
+	id R3ABC36B; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:30:47 -0700
+Message-ID: <016601c12c12$5b520560$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:29:49 -0700
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Has anyone else recieved this message several times?
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: <Ratskindid@aol.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 7:28 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+
+
+> Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game 
+> development at this time?
+> Thanks, Jonathan.
+> 
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Fri Aug 24 00:30:55 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (flash2.flashmail.com [207.173.216.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7NMUpl04098
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:30:51 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
+Received: (qmail 27932 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 22:23:54 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO cx1229543a) (24.22.141.10)
+  by flash2.flashmail.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 22:23:54 -0000
+Message-ID: <002101c12c22$7f6f5f00$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:25:21 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C12BF8.961C37C0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C12BF8.961C37C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hey man, shut up already.  We've gotten the same email 4 or 5 times now. =
+ My company MIGHT be using NeL... we're still evaluating it as it is =
+still in development.
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Ratskindid@aol.com=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:28 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+
+
+  Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game=20
+  development at this time?=20
+  Thanks, Jonathan.=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C12BF8.961C37C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hey man, shut up already.&nbsp; We've gotten the =
+same email 4=20
+or 5 times now.&nbsp; My company MIGHT be using NeL... we're still =
+evaluating it=20
+as it is still in development.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3DRatskindid@aol.com=20
+  href=3D"mailto:Ratskindid@aol.com">Ratskindid@aol.com</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 22, =
+2001 9:28=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Questions about =
+NeL=20
+  use.</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Anybody =
+know what other=20
+  companies are using the NeL engine in game <BR>development at this =
+time?=20
+  <BR>Thanks, Jonathan.</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C12BF8.961C37C0--
+
+
+From render@qwest.net Fri Aug 24 03:54:54 2001
+Received: from slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net (slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net [206.81.128.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7O1srl05838
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:54:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from render@qwest.net)
+Received: (qmail 2436 invoked by uid 0); 24 Aug 2001 01:50:31 -0000
+Received: from c976674-a.saltlk1.ut.home.com (HELO qwest.net) (24.0.33.223)
+  by slkcpop3.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 01:50:31 -0000
+Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:49:55 -0600
+Message-ID: <3B85C0D3.BFFF06D8@qwest.net>
+From: "Nick Rathke" <render@qwest.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.5 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Why do I get this e-mail over and over and over again?
+
+n.
+
+
+Ratskindid@aol.com wrote:
+
+> Anybody know what other companies are using the NeL engine in game
+> development at this time?
+> Thanks, Jonathan.
+
+
+From james.hearn@byu.edu Fri Aug 24 07:18:01 2001
+Received: from granger.centurytel.net (granger.centurytel.net [209.142.136.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7O5I0l07283
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:18:01 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from james.hearn@byu.edu)
+Received: from jjh (pppoe0527.lax.centurytel.net [64.91.19.19])
+	by granger.centurytel.net (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f7O5Dbd20929
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:13:38 -0500 (CDT)
+Message-ID: <001501c12c5a$7a7ee5a0$13135b40@jjh>
+From: "James Hearn" <james.hearn@byu.edu>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com> <3B85C0D3.BFFF06D8@qwest.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:06:02 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Why do I get this e-mail over and over and over again?
+
+I've received almost 30 copies of it.
+
+--James Hearn
+
+
+From cado@nevrax.com Fri Aug 24 09:48:40 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7O7mel08039
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:48:40 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7O7iND44266
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:44:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <3B86065B.5C5D0AE0@nevrax.com>
+Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:46:35 +0200
+From: Olivier Cado <cado@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I)
+X-Accept-Language: fr,en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010816153031.A45508@nevrax.com> <014801c12bfa$7dcdc420$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Zane (E.J. Wilburn) wrote:
+> Got an error compiling NeL under Linux, basically a typing problem, here's a
+> patch:
+> 
+> diff -r1.2 tcp_sock.cpp
+> 187c187
+> <       int len = sizeof( windowsize );
+> ---
+> >       socklen_t len  = sizeof( windowsize );
+
+Thank you for your patch.
+Sorry for this mistake, it was fixed yesterday but the public CVS repository
+on nevrax.org is updated at the end of the day.
+
+Olivier Cado
+ICQ: 67756413
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Aug 24 12:28:38 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7OASXl09224
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:28:34 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7OAOBD46227
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:24:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.5/8.11.5) id f7OAOB681235
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:24:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:24:11 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Message-ID: <20010824122410.A81222@nevrax.com>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com> <016601c12c12$5b520560$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <016601c12c12$5b520560$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from zane@supernova.org on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 01:29:49PM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Zane wrote:
+> Has anyone else recieved this message several times?
+
+Yes :-(
+
+It look like to be mailman wich send that mail over and over since i
+activate the option restricting the send of mail to the malling list to
+the the list non-menbers without approval. I did it to filte spams ...
+
+I desactivate that option and i looking for a solution ...
+
+Sorry about that spamming :-(
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Aug 24 12:38:34 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7OAcWl09305
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:38:33 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7OAYGD46342
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:34:16 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.5/8.11.5) id f7OAYGT81270
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:34:16 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:34:16 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeLNS compilation problems
+Message-ID: <20010824123415.B81222@nevrax.com>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEEDOCBAA.miller@nevrax.com> <003f01c121c8$e862f620$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <001b01c1256f$09348900$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <010b01c125a6$23eba850$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com> <20010816153031.A45508@nevrax.com> <014d01c12bfc$63506290$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <014d01c12bfc$63506290$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>; from zane@supernova.org on Thu, Aug 23, 2001 at 10:52:34AM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Zane wrote:
+> 
+> I'm not sure what was wrong but something in the Monday (not this Monday but
+> the 13th I believe) fixed it.  Not sure if you all want to pursue the issue
+> any further since it's working now, I'm not concerned any longer.
+
+I juste fixed a small bug in NeLNS that was active when using the
+--with-stlport-lib option ... but if that works now ... weird.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From vizerie@nevrax.com Fri Aug 24 18:07:53 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7OG7ql10983
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:07:52 +0200 (CEST)
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+Message-ID: <001401c12cb6$57170140$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+From: "Nicolas Vizerie" <vizerie@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:03:39 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Fw: NeL compile error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
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+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+----- Original Message -----=20
+From: Nicolas Vizerie=20
+To: zane@supernova.org=20
+Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:32 PM
+Subject: NeL compile error
+
+
+Hello,=20
+
+The compile error that you reported has been fixed. You can update your =
+file.
+Thanks for reporting it!
+
+
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
+<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
+href=3D"mailto:vizerie@nevrax.com" title=3Dvizerie@nevrax.com>Nicolas =
+Vizerie</A>=20
+</DIV>
+<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:zane@supernova.org"=20
+title=3Dzane@supernova.org>zane@supernova.org</A> </DIV>
+<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 24, 2001 5:32 PM</DIV>
+<DIV><B>Subject:</B> NeL compile error</DIV></DIV>
+<DIV><BR></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The compile error that you reported has =
+been fixed.=20
+You can update your file.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks&nbsp;for reporting =
+it!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nicolas Vizerie</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0--
+
+
+From cyril.thibout@mageos.com Sat Aug 25 19:58:09 2001
+Received: from smtp1.9tel.net (smtp1.9tel.net [212.30.96.108])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7PHw8l20980
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:58:08 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from cyril.thibout@mageos.com)
+Received: (qmail 25233 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 17:53:51 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO enterprise) (213.203.84.72)
+  by 0 with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 17:53:51 -0000
+Message-ID: <00c901c12d8f$22e08fc0$0100a8c0@enterprise>
+From: "cyril Thibout" <cyril.thibout@mageos.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Questions about NeL use.
+Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:55:32 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C12D9F.E5FD0960
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Sorry
+how can I unsubscribe please ?
+
+thanks
+
+Cyril
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C12D9F.E5FD0960
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2013.1301" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sorry</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>how can I unsubscribe please =
+?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cyril</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
+0px">&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00C6_01C12D9F.E5FD0960--
+
+
+From momerath@in-orbit.net Mon Aug 27 02:48:05 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7R0m4l47671
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 02:48:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from momerath@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from freyja ([63.205.226.189])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7QNcwi05733
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:39:00 -0700
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Michael Warnock <momerath@in-orbit.net>
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:43:42 -0700
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2]
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com> <3B85C0D3.BFFF06D8@qwest.net>
+In-Reply-To: <3B85C0D3.BFFF06D8@qwest.net>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <0108261743420E.14310@freyja>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] snowballs 2
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Greetings,
+
+I'm really eager to get my hands on this code and try out all the new 
+features I've watched you add to the library.  Is there a new tentative 
+release date for the client?
+
+Michael Warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+
+From jmark4@home.com Mon Aug 27 04:38:43 2001
+Received: from femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.108])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7R2cgl48265
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 04:38:43 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
+Received: from cx1229543a ([24.22.141.10]) by femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP
+          id <20010827023416.LYYJ1414.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx1229543a>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:34:16 -0700
+Message-ID: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:33:05 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C12E76.B10B2200"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C12E76.B10B2200
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Alrighty, I'm rebuilding everything from scratch here, and am having =
+problems again.
+
+I got freetype, and it compiled perfectly... got 4 libs out of that.  =
+(They have a nifty .dsw file now for us VC++6.0 Win32 folks to use).
+
+I still have Python, never uninstalled it...=20
+
+But then I go for the STLport thing, and have nothing but problems.  =
+You'd think I'd be okay with this, since I've done it before.
+
+I read the mailing list archives and couldn't find anything regarding =
+this problem... I read the install file that comes with nel, and the one =
+that comes with stlport... no help there.
+
+Here's what I'm doing.
+
+In a command prompt:
+
+I copy vc6-unicode.mak to "makefile"
+I run "nmake clean all"
+and I get some errors...
+
+first of all, it says "invalid switch - /s"
+then it does the cl.exe command line, and exits with this error:
+..\\stlport\cstddef(27) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'../include/cstddef': No such file or directory
+NMAKE : fatal error U1077:  (path to cl.exe) : return code '0x2'
+Stop.
+
+I've noticed there IS no "include" directory in the stlport files that =
+came with v4.0... so this has me confused... it's looking for files in =
+an include directory, but there is none... are the STLport makefiles =
+wrong?
+
+Anyway, I'm very confused.
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C12E76.B10B2200
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Alrighty, I'm rebuilding everything from scratch =
+here, and am=20
+having problems again.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I got freetype, and it compiled perfectly... got 4 =
+libs out of=20
+that.&nbsp; (They have a nifty .dsw file now for us VC++6.0 Win32 folks =
+to=20
+use).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I still have Python, never uninstalled it... =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But then I go for the STLport thing, and have =
+nothing but=20
+problems.&nbsp; You'd think I'd be okay with this, since I've done it=20
+before.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I read the mailing list archives and couldn't find =
+anything=20
+regarding this problem... I read the install file that comes with nel, =
+and the=20
+one that comes with stlport... no help there.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's what I'm doing.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>In a command prompt:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I&nbsp;copy vc6-unicode.mak to =
+"makefile"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I run "nmake clean all"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>and I get some errors...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>first of all, it says "invalid switch - =
+/s"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>then it does the cl.exe command line, and exits with =
+this=20
+error:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>..\\stlport\cstddef(27) : fatal error C1083: Cannot =
+open=20
+include file: '../include/cstddef': No such file or =
+directory</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>NMAKE : fatal error U1077:&nbsp; (path to cl.exe) : =
+return=20
+code '0x2'</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Stop.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I've noticed there IS no "include" directory in the =
+stlport=20
+files that came with v4.0... so this has me confused... it's looking for =
+files=20
+in an include directory, but there is none... are the STLport makefiles=20
+wrong?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Anyway, I'm very confused.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C12E76.B10B2200--
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Aug 28 18:10:59 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7SGAwl61331
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:10:58 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7SG6cD03538
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:06:38 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:06:38 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] snowballs 2
+Message-ID: <20010828180638.A28855@nevrax.com>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com> <3B85C0D3.BFFF06D8@qwest.net> <0108261743420E.14310@freyja>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <0108261743420E.14310@freyja>; from momerath@in-orbit.net on Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 05:43:42PM -0700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Michael ... hello everyone,
+
+Michael Warnock wrote:
+> 
+> I'm really eager to get my hands on this code and try out all the new 
+> features I've watched you add to the library.  Is there a new tentative 
+> release date for the client?
+
+Snowball 2 has been up and running for a month on our PCs here,
+but due to deadline pressure on internal projects we haven't got
+round to ironing out a couple of basic problems that make the
+version unreleasable.
+
+Firstly, the client app runs fine under Windows, but under X we
+get the NeL logo in full screen with a slightly coy looking Gnu
+trying desperately to hide behind it (you catch a glimpses of him
+as the logo rotates).  There's also no sign of the landscape.  This
+has to be something daft in the 3D engine, but the 3D team's been
+snowed under and hasn't had a chance to look at it yet.
+
+Secondly, the network code in the Snowballs server services
+missbehvaes when we compile with optimisations turned on and
+debugging options turned off (we only compile the server services
+under Linux). The problem's hardly subtle, the client simply doesn't
+receive any messages from the front end. This can't be difficult
+to find as it's 100% repeatable but the fact that the problem goes
+away when one compiles in 'debug' mode is a pain.  The Network team
+have been as busy as the 3D team for the last month or so and just
+haven't got round to sorting it out yet.
+
+
+The team should surface in a couple of weeks time and we'll put out a
+release then.
+
+Regards to all,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Aug 28 18:28:13 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7SGSDl61442
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:28:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7SGNsD03772
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.5/8.11.5) id f7SGNsf32345
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:23:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:23:54 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+Message-ID: <20010828182353.A32306@nevrax.com>
+References: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>; from jmark4@home.com on Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 09:33:05PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Jared Mark wrote:
+> 
+> [...]
+> 
+> first of all, it says "invalid switch - /s"
+> then it does the cl.exe command line, and exits with this error:
+> ..\\stlport\cstddef(27) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: '../include/cstddef': No such file or directory
+> NMAKE : fatal error U1077:  (path to cl.exe) : return code '0x2'
+> Stop.
+
+I found something silmilar on the STLPort site :
+
+   - http://www.stlport.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/629.html
+
+      " Please make sure you ran vcvars.bat so set environment for command-line
+        MS tools."
+
+
+I hope that will helps you ... 
+
+
+Regards,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Tue Aug 28 18:32:03 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7SGW2l61486
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:32:02 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11040
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:27:26 +0200 (MET DST)
+Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:26:58 +0200
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <150347942447.20010828182658@teleaction.de>
+To: Cedric Valignat <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] snowballs 2
+In-reply-To: <20010828180638.A28855@nevrax.com>
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com> <3B85C0D3.BFFF06D8@qwest.net>
+ <0108261743420E.14310@freyja> <20010828180638.A28855@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+CV> Secondly, the network code in the Snowballs server services
+CV> missbehvaes when we compile with optimisations turned on and
+CV> debugging options turned off (we only compile the server services
+CV> under Linux). The problem's hardly subtle, the client simply doesn't
+CV> receive any messages from the front end. This can't be difficult
+CV> to find as it's 100% repeatable but the fact that the problem goes
+CV> away when one compiles in 'debug' mode is a pain.
+
+Looks like you have memory allocation problem.
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Tue Aug 28 18:45:43 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7SGjgl61571
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:45:43 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
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+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA7569307
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:41:23 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3B8BC9F1.3D515A0@packetport.com>
+Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:42:25 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] snowballs 2
+References: <f2.e8a72df.28b5c442@aol.com> <3B85C0D3.BFFF06D8@qwest.net>
+	 <0108261743420E.14310@freyja> <20010828180638.A28855@nevrax.com> <150347942447.20010828182658@teleaction.de>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Perhaps the team would do well to release it in it's current state
+simply for outside coders to perhaps look into the problem themselves
+and submit bug and patch reports?  It never hurt to ask the community
+what it can do for your code.
+
+  Tony
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Tue Aug 28 19:40:58 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7SHewl61860
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:40:58 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f7SHadD04716
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:36:39 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] snowballs 2
+Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:35:59 +0200
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFGEJECBAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <3B8BC9F1.3D515A0@packetport.com>
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Fair comment.  The team kind of wanted to get it fixed before releaseing,
+but no body's had the time.
+Cedric 'll put a version some time tomorrow.
+
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Tony Hoyt
+Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:42 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] snowballs 2
+
+
+Perhaps the team would do well to release it in it's current state
+simply for outside coders to perhaps look into the problem themselves
+and submit bug and patch reports?  It never hurt to ask the community
+what it can do for your code.
+
+  Tony
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Wed Aug 29 02:58:45 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (flash2.flashmail.com [207.173.216.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7T0wil64276
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:58:45 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
+Received: (qmail 9033 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 00:51:25 -0000
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+  by flash2.flashmail.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 00:51:25 -0000
+Message-ID: <003d01c13024$fa288540$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <20010828182353.A32306@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:53:10 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+No such file... not in the STLport distrib, or anywhere on my HD.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:23 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+
+
+> Jared Mark wrote:
+> >
+> > [...]
+> >
+> > first of all, it says "invalid switch - /s"
+> > then it does the cl.exe command line, and exits with this error:
+> > ..\\stlport\cstddef(27) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file:
+'../include/cstddef': No such file or directory
+> > NMAKE : fatal error U1077:  (path to cl.exe) : return code '0x2'
+> > Stop.
+>
+> I found something silmilar on the STLPort site :
+>
+>    - http://www.stlport.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/629.html
+>
+>       " Please make sure you ran vcvars.bat so set environment for
+command-line
+>         MS tools."
+>
+>
+> I hope that will helps you ...
+>
+>
+> Regards,
+>
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Wed Aug 29 03:04:47 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (flash2.flashmail.com [207.173.216.241])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7T14jl64334
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 03:04:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
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+Received: from unknown (HELO cx1229543a) (24.22.141.10)
+  by flash2.flashmail.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 00:57:27 -0000
+Message-ID: <004701c13025$d2180fc0$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <20010828182353.A32306@nevrax.com> <003d01c13024$fa288540$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:59:13 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Okay, found it... "VCVARS32.BAT" in the vc98/bin/ folder
+
+When I run it, I get "Out of environment space" errors. :(
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:53 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+
+
+> No such file... not in the STLport distrib, or anywhere on my HD.
+>
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:23 AM
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+>
+>
+> > Jared Mark wrote:
+> > >
+> > > [...]
+> > >
+> > > first of all, it says "invalid switch - /s"
+> > > then it does the cl.exe command line, and exits with this error:
+> > > ..\\stlport\cstddef(27) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file:
+> '../include/cstddef': No such file or directory
+> > > NMAKE : fatal error U1077:  (path to cl.exe) : return code '0x2'
+> > > Stop.
+> >
+> > I found something silmilar on the STLPort site :
+> >
+> >    - http://www.stlport.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/629.html
+> >
+> >       " Please make sure you ran vcvars.bat so set environment for
+> command-line
+> >         MS tools."
+> >
+> >
+> > I hope that will helps you ...
+> >
+> >
+> > Regards,
+> >
+> >
+> > Cedric.
+> >
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> >
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Aug 29 10:10:47 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7T8Akl66425
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:10:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:06:27 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002901c13061$80a2abf0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <20010828182353.A32306@nevrax.com> <003d01c13024$fa288540$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <004701c13025$d2180fc0$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:06:27 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Okay, found it... "VCVARS32.BAT" in the vc98/bin/ folder
+> When I run it, I get "Out of environment space" errors. :(
+
+You have to put this .bat in your autoexec.bat and reboot your computer.
+After windows booting, open a dos window and type "nmake". If it says that
+it's an unknown commands, the .bat didn't worked and in this case, take a
+look in the microsoft web site. If i says "Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance
+Utility   Version 6.00.8168.0", it s ok, just restart the STLport
+compilation procedure.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Wed Aug 29 14:52:30 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash4.flashmail.com [207.173.216.244])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7TCqOl67911
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:52:29 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
+Received: (qmail 28050 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 12:46:55 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO cx1229543a) (24.22.141.10)
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+Message-ID: <005b01c13088$a6dbe940$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <20010828182353.A32306@nevrax.com> <003d01c13024$fa288540$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <004701c13025$d2180fc0$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <002901c13061$80a2abf0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:46:40 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Nah, I just increased the environment space on my MS DOS shortcut (don't use
+start>run>command.com) to the max (hehe, 4k).
+
+After that, it all worked flawlessly, and I was able to:
+nmake clean all (heh, took about an hour!)
+then nmake install...
+
+I have the libs now and am very happy. :)
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 3:06 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+
+
+> > Okay, found it... "VCVARS32.BAT" in the vc98/bin/ folder
+> > When I run it, I get "Out of environment space" errors. :(
+>
+> You have to put this .bat in your autoexec.bat and reboot your computer.
+> After windows booting, open a dos window and type "nmake". If it says that
+> it's an unknown commands, the .bat didn't worked and in this case, take a
+> look in the microsoft web site. If i says "Microsoft (R) Program
+Maintenance
+> Utility   Version 6.00.8168.0", it s ok, just restart the STLport
+> compilation procedure.
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o?
+K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+>
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From gcolgate@home.com Wed Aug 29 17:34:32 2001
+Received: from femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail47.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.41])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7TFYVl69371
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:34:31 +0200 (CEST)
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:30:05 -0700
+Message-ID: <3B8D0C35.38CF06D2@home.com>
+Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:37:25 -0700
+From: Gil Colgate <gcolgate@home.com>
+Organization: @Home Network
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-AtHome0407  (Win98; I)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+References: <001201c12ea0$9aaa9480$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <20010828182353.A32306@nevrax.com> <003d01c13024$fa288540$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com> <004701c13025$d2180fc0$0a8d1618@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Fix this by putting a line like
+
+shell=c:\command.com /e:1024 /p
+
+in your config.sys (assuming your command.co is in C:\)
+
+There is documentation about 'setting environment space in DOS' somewhere on
+microsoft's web site
+
+
+EagleEye wrote:
+
+> Okay, found it... "VCVARS32.BAT" in the vc98/bin/ folder
+>
+> When I run it, I get "Out of environment space" errors. :(
+>
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:53 PM
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+>
+> > No such file... not in the STLport distrib, or anywhere on my HD.
+> >
+> > ----- Original Message -----
+> > From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+> > To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:23 AM
+> > Subject: Re: [Nel] STL Port yet again.
+> >
+> >
+> > > Jared Mark wrote:
+> > > >
+> > > > [...]
+> > > >
+> > > > first of all, it says "invalid switch - /s"
+> > > > then it does the cl.exe command line, and exits with this error:
+> > > > ..\\stlport\cstddef(27) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file:
+> > '../include/cstddef': No such file or directory
+> > > > NMAKE : fatal error U1077:  (path to cl.exe) : return code '0x2'
+> > > > Stop.
+> > >
+> > > I found something silmilar on the STLPort site :
+> > >
+> > >    - http://www.stlport.com/dcforum/DCForumID7/629.html
+> > >
+> > >       " Please make sure you ran vcvars.bat so set environment for
+> > command-line
+> > >         MS tools."
+> > >
+> > >
+> > > I hope that will helps you ...
+> > >
+> > >
+> > > Regards,
+> > >
+> > >
+> > > Cedric.
+> > >
+> > > _______________________________________________
+> > > Nel mailing list
+> > > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> > >
+> >
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> >
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Aug 29 20:38:30 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7TIcTl70456
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:38:29 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.5/8.11.5) id f7TIY7e03393
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:34:07 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:34:07 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010829203407.A3227@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Daily snapshots
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all, 
+
+
+I setup a script doing daily snapshots of the public repository.
+
+It's running every nigths at 03h00 CET and we placed the tar.gz and zip
+files in the following place :
+
+   http://nevrax.org/download/cvs/
+
+The lastest versions is in :
+
+   http://nevrax.org/download/cvs/latest/
+
+Concerning the documentation snapshots, i have to cleanup our
+documentation generation system to get something usable ... i will
+keep you informed when that will be done ...
+
+
+Regards,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Aug 29 20:38:30 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7TIcUl70461
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:38:30 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f7TIYAD17473
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:34:10 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.5/8.11.5) id f7TIYAV03402
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:34:10 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:34:10 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20010829203410.A3192@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs available (at least)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all, 
+
+
+So ... it's done, Snowballs is available in the public CVS in
+code/snowballs2.
+
+It compile and run on Windows but we have some troubles on GNU/Linux
+platforms :
+
+   - a full screen NeL logo instead of a small one in the upper rigth
+     corner.
+   - no landscape.
+   - network communication problem between the client and the frontend
+     in release mode.
+   - for a week now, we have some linking problem of NeL 3D with the
+     client and i didn't had time to look at it ... sorry about that.
+   - there is, probably, some other bugs too :-)
+
+
+I launch a shard on itsalive.nevrax.org. It's compiled on debug mode to
+be able to test the client in network mode without beeing annoyed by the
+network bug.
+
+I hope that i forgot nothing otherwise contact me.
+
+Good luck ...
+
+
+Regards,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Wed Aug 29 20:48:03 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f7TIm2l70575
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:48:02 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA7909392
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:43:41 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3B8D381A.896EF58B@packetport.com>
+Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:44:42 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs available (at least)
+References: <20010829203410.A3192@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Awsome. Thanks.  Now I don't know if I'll be able to get it compiled
+myself, but I bet there will be pleanty of people to help out. Plus, I
+bet the developers would love to work on anything but this at the
+moment.  You guys have bigger bugs to squish. :-)
+
+  Tony
+
+From sylviadicorvino@yahoo.com Wed Aug 29 20:53:17 2001
+Received: from web12304.mail.yahoo.com (web12304.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.102])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7TIrHl70643
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:53:17 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from sylviadicorvino@yahoo.com)
+Message-ID: <20010829184815.95822.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com>
+Received: from [207.202.191.60] by web12304.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:48:15 PDT
+Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:48:15 -0700 (PDT)
+From: Pam Curtis <sylviadicorvino@yahoo.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <3B8D381A.896EF58B@packetport.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Unsubscribe me, please [eom]
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+ 
+ 
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
+http://im.yahoo.com
+
+From content-management@mail.high-tech-communications.com Thu Sep 13 12:03:13 2001
+Received: from mail.high-tech-communications.com (mail.high-tech-communications.com [216.133.228.90])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8DA3Bl81879
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:03:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from content-management@mail.high-tech-communications.com)
+Received: (from content-management@localhost)
+	by mail.high-tech-communications.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) id f8DAKcj31152;
+	Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:20:38 -0700
+Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:20:38 -0700
+Message-Id: <200109131020.f8DAKcj31152@mail.high-tech-communications.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Victor Black <content-management@high-tech-communcations.com>
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
+Subject: [Nel] New web utility
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
+<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
+<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY>
+<P><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>I noticed your email address on a list serve 
+related to technology and web development.&nbsp; With your permission, 
+we<BR>would like to send you information regarding new web tools and utilities 
+based on your interests.&nbsp; Please click the<BR>following link and opt-in to 
+our product updates and e-newsletter, click here: </FONT><A target=_blank 
+href="http://216.133.228.90/cm/"><FONT 
+face=Arial>http://216.133.228.90/cm/</FONT></A><BR><BR><FONT 
+face=Arial>Cordially,<BR><BR>Victor 
+Black<BR>High-Tech-Communications.com</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial> </FONT></P>
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+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Tue Sep 18 11:29:12 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8I9TBl20758
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:29:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from PCTEST.in-orbit.org ([63.205.226.189])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8I8Ici14615
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 18 Sep 2001 01:18:39 -0700
+Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 02:27:09 -0700
+From: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <1654057274.20010918022709@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Landscape tools?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+We have been playing with Snowballs2 and we are
+very impressed.  Thank you Nevrax!
+
+Now we are converting our Warp Storm game content
+to this version of NeL.  All the 3D Max tools work
+fine but I can't figure out how to create the
+Retriever bank ".rbank" for our landscape.  In the
+documentation for NeL PACS the following is said
+under Tools: "Landscape scenery is converted directly
+to a surface representation by exported data re-
+processing utilities."  Are those utilities
+available?
+
+Also, I created a simple in-game landscape painting
+tool for the last release of NeL, is anybody working
+on something similar?  If not I'll update the painting
+tool and release it under the GPL.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Bjarnason
+
+InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Sep 24 09:46:59 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8O7kwl69108
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:46:58 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f8O7gNu34736
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:42:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002301c144cc$72aa8700$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <1654057274.20010918022709@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscape tools?
+Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:42:22 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Róbert,
+
+> We have been playing with Snowballs2 and we are
+> very impressed.  Thank you Nevrax!
+
+Thank you  for your coments. Do you know that the NeL landscape 2
+si available ? The displacement mapping has been implemented and
+the lighter tool has been upgraded (soft shadow + objects shadow +
+radiosity-like effect + multiCPU support).
+The landscape runs faster now.
+
+The zone lighting process has been modified. We have added a zone dependency
+builder that build shadow dependencies from a zone to another. With this
+information,
+the lighter tool knows what zones cast shadows on the lighted zone.
+
+Shadow from objects are computed this way: when the lighter tool loads a
+zone
+(ex: a_13.zonew), it loads the instance group with the same name (a_13.ig)
+and casts
+shadows with its objects. You can add additionnal instance groups too.
+
+> Now we are converting our Warp Storm game content
+> to this version of NeL.  All the 3D Max tools work
+> fine but I can't figure out how to create the
+> Retriever bank ".rbank" for our landscape.  In the
+> documentation for NeL PACS the following is said
+> under Tools: "Landscape scenery is converted directly
+> to a surface representation by exported data re-
+> processing utilities."  Are those utilities
+> available?
+
+The tools that generates those surfaces will be available soon.
+For the moment, only one guy at Nevrax can handle it ! :-)
+
+Regards,
+
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+---
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From smtp@public.ayptt.ha.cn Wed Sep 26 19:01:28 2001
+Received: from public.ayptt.ha.cn ([202.102.230.147])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f8QH1Fl99966
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+Message-Id: <200109261654.AAA21314@public.ayptt.ha.cn>
+Date: 2001-9-27 0:51:04
+From: "service@coolstarpage.com"<smtp@public.ayptt.ha.cn>
+To: ÄãºÃ@public.ayptt.ha.cn, <Nel@nevrax.org>
+X-mailer: Clansoft CDmail1.0(beta)
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Subject: [Nel] ˲¼äÌá¸ß°Ù±¶·ÃÎÊÁ¿£¡
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+˲¼äÌá¸ß°Ù±¶·ÃÎÊÁ¿£¡ 
+
+ÎÒÃÇÃâ·ÑÒ»ÖÖÌṩһÖÖ¿ÉÒÔͨ¹ýÍøÒ³Ð޸ķÿ͵Ää¯ÀÀÆ÷µÄĬÈÏÖ÷Ò³µÄ´úÂ룬ֻҪ½«Ëü¼ÓÈëµ½ÄãµÄÖ÷ Ò³£¬Ã¿µ±·Ã¿Í·ÃÎÊÄãµÄÍøÕ¾µÄʱºò£¬´úÂë¾Í»á½«·Ã¿ÍµÄä¯ÀÀÆ÷µÄĬÈÏÖ÷Ò³ÉèÖóÉÄãµÄÖ÷Ò³£¡ÎÒÃǵĴúÂëÓëÖÚ²»Í¬Ö®´¦¾ÍÔÚÓÚµ±·Ã¿ÍµÄä¯ÀÀÆ÷ÉèÖóÉÄúµÄÕ¾µãÒԺ󽫲»¿ÉÒÔÔÙÐ޸ģ¡Í¬Ê±ÎÒÃÇ»¹ÌṩÔڷÿ͵Ää¯ÀÀÆ÷ÉèÖóÉÄúµÄÕ¾µãÒÔºó·Ã¿Í¿ÉÒÔÔÙ´ÎÐÞ¸Ä×Ô¼ºÄ¬ÈÏÒ³ä¯ÀÀÆ÷µÄ´úÂë¡£
+
+µã»÷´Ë´¦Á˽âÏêϸ:http://www.coolstarpage.com
+-------------------------------------------------
+  CDmail by ClanSoft    http://clansoft.yeah.net
+
+
+From patrick.herrmann@free.fr Wed Oct  3 11:15:17 2001
+Received: from s1.relay.oleane.net (s1.relay.oleane.net [195.25.12.48])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f939FHl53651
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 11:15:17 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from patrick.herrmann@free.fr)
+Received: from there (unknown [212.234.228.177])
+	by s1.relay.oleane.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5D0901FA98
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed,  3 Oct 2001 11:10:33 +0200 (CEST)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-15"
+From: Patrick Herrmann <patrick.herrmann@free.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 11:07:09 -0400
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Message-Id: <20011003091033.5D0901FA98@s1.relay.oleane.net>
+Subject: [Nel] Newbie problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+I'm trying to launch some NeL services (the naming_service, for instance), 
+but I get the following errors:
+	variable "Rec" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+	variable "SId" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+	variable "BasePort" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+
+I checked, I don't have anywhere any file called naming_service.cfg. Could 
+someone give me some information about this file,a nd how it should be 
+formatted.
+
+Thank you,
+
+Patrick
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Oct  3 12:42:55 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f93Agtl54087
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:42:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f93AcBu16379
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:38:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001101c14bf7$7f7c6a70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011003091033.5D0901FA98@s1.relay.oleane.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Newbie problem
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:38:10 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-15"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Patrick,
+
+> I'm trying to launch some NeL services (the naming_service, for instance),
+> but I get the following errors:
+> variable "Rec" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+> variable "SId" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+> variable "BasePort" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+
+You are wrong, in fact, it's not *errors* but only *warnings*. Look the 3
+first letters, it's WRN for warning and INF for information.
+In fact, the message says that the variable is not found but these variables
+are optional and you don't need them in normal case.
+
+nevrax@net2:~/build/release/nelns/naming_service$ ./naming_service
+INF 2840 service.cpp 363 : Starting Service 'NS' using NeL (Sep 28 2001
+15:06:09)
+WRN 2840 config_file.h 281 net2.nevrax.net/NS : Exception will be launched:
+variable "Rec" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+WRN 2840 config_file.h 281 net2.nevrax.net/NS : Exception will be launched:
+variable "SId" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+WRN 2840 config_file.h 281 net2.nevrax.net/NS : Exception will be launched:
+variable "BasePort" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+INF 2840 service.cpp 720 net2.nevrax.net/NS : Service ready
+
+If you see the message "Service ready", it's ok, otherwise, find and try to
+understand the ERR message :)
+
+> I checked, I don't have anywhere any file called naming_service.cfg. Could
+> someone give me some information about this file,a nd how it should be
+> formatted.
+
+There s no need for config file for naming_service. But when a config file
+is needing, we put it in the CVS at the same place where the sources are.
+The config file must be in the same directory that the executable so copy it
+if necessary. If you want an example, take a look on the time_service.cfg.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From tanis@digi-web.it Wed Oct  3 15:29:49 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f93DTkl54882
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:29:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@digi-web.it)
+Received: (qmail 8229 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 13:15:59 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 13:15:59 -0000
+Message-ID: <07ef01c14c0e$d6ebdf40$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@digi-web.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:25:16 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07EC_01C14C1F.9A625FC0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_07EC_01C14C1F.9A625FC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Is there anybody on the list who successfully compiled the exporter =
+plugin with 3DSMAX 4.0 SDK?
+I'm getting lots of errors because of the use of templates like min(), =
+max(), etc.. that are in the standard MS ATL, but it seems that they're =
+not supported by STLPort?!
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_07EC_01C14C1F.9A625FC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is there anybody on the list who =
+successfully=20
+compiled the exporter plugin with 3DSMAX 4.0 SDK?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm getting lots of errors because of =
+the use of=20
+templates like min(), max(), etc.. that are in the standard MS ATL, but =
+it seems=20
+that they're not supported by STLPort?!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(<A href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)<BR></FO=
+NT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_07EC_01C14C1F.9A625FC0--
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Oct  3 16:11:24 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f93EBLl55148
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:11:21 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f93E6Yu20491
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:06:34 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00b201c14c14$9eb678a0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <07ef01c14c0e$d6ebdf40$024510ac@valerio>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:06:38 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C14C25.622CF920"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C14C25.622CF920
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello,
+
+First, thank for this report.
+
+>C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\box2.h(34) : error C2065: 'min' : undeclared=20
+>identifier
+
+Errors with min are present with the 3dsmax 3.0 sdk too.
+
+Windows standard headers define min and max.
+STLPort standard headers don't define min and max but std::min and =
+std::max.
+The way we have solved the problem is to add manually the following code =
+:
+
+#ifndef min
+#define min(a,b)            (((a) < (b)) ? (a) : (b))
+#endif min
+
+in the header box2.h from 3dsmax sdk. I hope it works for max4. Not very =
+nice but.. :-)
+
+>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+>Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_patch_lib\nel_=
+patch_me
+>sh.cpp(341) : error C2039: 'patch2' : is not a member of 'PatchEdge'
+>        C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\patch.h(183) : see declaration of =
+'PatchEdge'
+
+In max3 sdk, the PatchEdge has this two members :
+
+int patch1;
+int patch2;
+
+Patch1 is the number of the first patch that share the edge, Patch2 is =
+the number of the second patch that share that edge, <0 if it is an open =
+edge.
+It seems that this members don't exist any more under max4 sdk. You =
+should take a look in your max4 sdk documentation and make a fix in the=20
+plugin code to work with the new PatchEdge class.
+
+If you really don't know how to do this, make a post in the list :-).
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+---
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+  Is there anybody on the list who successfully compiled the exporter =
+plugin with 3DSMAX 4.0 SDK?
+  I'm getting lots of errors because of the use of templates like min(), =
+max(), etc.. that are in the standard MS ATL, but it seems that they're =
+not supported by STLPort?!
+
+  --
+  Valerio Santinelli
+  HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+  In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+  My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C14C25.622CF920
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First, thank for this =
+report.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>&gt;C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\box2.h(34) : error=20
+C2065: 'min' : undeclared <BR>&gt;identifier<BR></FONT><BR><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>Errors with min are present with the 3dsmax 3.0 sdk =
+too.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Windows standard headers define min and =
+
+max.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>STLPort standard headers don't define min and max but std::min and=20
+std::max.</DIV>
+<DIV>The way we have solved the problem is to add manually the following =
+code=20
+:</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>#ifndef min<BR>#define=20
+min(a,b)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
+; (((a)=20
+&lt; (b)) ? (a) : (b))<BR>#endif min</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>in the header box2.h from 3dsmax sdk. I hope it works for max4. Not =
+very=20
+nice but.. :-)</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&gt;C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+<BR>&gt;Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_patch_l=
+ib\nel_patch_me<BR>&gt;sh.cpp(341)=20
+: error C2039: 'patch2' : is not a member of=20
+'PatchEdge'<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\patch.h(183) : see declaration of =
+'PatchEdge'</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>In max3 sdk, the PatchEdge has this two members :</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>int patch1;<BR>int patch2;</DIV>
+<DIV><BR>Patch1 is the number of the first patch that share the edge, =
+Patch2 is=20
+the number of the second patch that share that edge, &lt;0 if it is an =
+open=20
+edge.</DIV>
+<DIV>It seems that this members don't exist any more under max4 sdk. You =
+should=20
+take a look in your max4 sdk documentation and make a fix in the </DIV>
+<DIV>plugin code to work with the new PatchEdge class.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>If you really don't know how to do this, make a post in the list=20
+:-).<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Cyril Corvazier<BR>---<BR>Lead 3d programmer<BR>Nevrax=20
+France<BR></DIV></FONT>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is there anybody on the list who =
+successfully=20
+  compiled the exporter plugin with 3DSMAX 4.0 SDK?</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm getting lots of errors because of =
+the use of=20
+  templates like min(), max(), etc.. that are in the standard MS ATL, =
+but it=20
+  seems that they're not supported by STLPort?!</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+  (<A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+  Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+  href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+  =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)<BR></FO=
+NT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00AF_01C14C25.622CF920--
+
+
+From laurent.hausermann@naema.org Wed Oct  3 16:26:41 2001
+Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr (postfix2-1.free.fr [213.228.0.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f93EQfl55261
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:26:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from laurent.hausermann@naema.org)
+Received: from fremen (strasbourg-2-a7-51-250.dial.proxad.net [212.27.51.250])
+	by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 646EA358
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed,  3 Oct 2001 16:21:55 +0200 (CEST)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Laurent Hausermann <laurent.hausermann@naema.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:23:04 +0200
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Message-Id: <01100316230403.07986@fremen>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all, 
+
+I have some difficulties with my 56K modem to get the code via CVS. Is there 
+any rsync server (with compression) or tarball avaible. I appreciate your 
+efforts to give the most in time code but it 's hard to contribute with a 56K.
+
+Furthermore, it seems there is no more activity on the mailing list .... 
+hummm the nevrax team is ill ??
+
+Regards, and thanks for your faith in GPL.
+
+Laurent Hausermann
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Oct  3 16:56:02 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f93Ethl55449
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:55:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f93Eolu21450
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:50:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f93EoeK09329
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:50:40 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:50:40 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.
+Message-ID: <20011003165040.A9277@nevrax.com>
+References: <01100316230403.07986@fremen>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <01100316230403.07986@fremen>; from laurent.hausermann@naema.org on Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 04:23:04PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Laurent Hausermann wrote:
+> 
+> I have some difficulties with my 56K modem to get the code via CVS. Is there 
+> any rsync server (with compression) or tarball avaible. I appreciate your 
+> efforts to give the most in time code but it 's hard to contribute with a 56K.
+
+we put some daily snapshots of our cvs trees that you can get at:
+
+   http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs/
+
+
+> Furthermore, it seems there is no more activity on the mailing list .... 
+> hummm the nevrax team is ill ??
+
+We just have our brains directly plugged to our development tools but
+if you need any informations we will be glad to help you ... we are ready
+to unplugged ourself to take a look at your messages and reply :o)
+
+> Regards, and thanks for your faith in GPL.
+
+Thanks for the interst that you show to our work :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Wed Oct  3 16:58:23 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f93EwNl55486
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:58:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 9699 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 14:44:43 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 14:44:43 -0000
+Message-ID: <083301c14c1b$3c7c1f80$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <01100316230403.07986@fremen>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:54:00 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I have some difficulties with my 56K modem to get the code via CVS. Is
+there
+> any rsync server (with compression) or tarball avaible. I appreciate your
+> efforts to give the most in time code but it 's hard to contribute with a
+56K.
+
+I'm planning on putting a weekly tarball of the whole cvs on my own site.
+I guess it would be better for those who are not constantly updating to the
+latest CVS version, like you.
+I'll let you know through the mailing list when I begin.
+
+cya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Wed Oct  3 17:00:27 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f93F0Ql55540
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:00:26 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 9752 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 14:46:46 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 14:46:46 -0000
+Message-ID: <084801c14c1b$85f21f70$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <07ef01c14c0e$d6ebdf40$024510ac@valerio> <00b201c14c14$9eb678a0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:56:03 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0845_01C14C2C.496D33D0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0845_01C14C2C.496D33D0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I'm going to try to do this tonight. I'll let you know.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 4:06 PM
+  Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+
+
+  Hello,
+
+  First, thank for this report.
+
+  >C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\box2.h(34) : error C2065: 'min' : =
+undeclared=20
+  >identifier
+
+  Errors with min are present with the 3dsmax 3.0 sdk too.
+
+  Windows standard headers define min and max.
+  STLPort standard headers don't define min and max but std::min and =
+std::max.
+  The way we have solved the problem is to add manually the following =
+code :
+
+  #ifndef min
+  #define min(a,b)            (((a) < (b)) ? (a) : (b))
+  #endif min
+
+  in the header box2.h from 3dsmax sdk. I hope it works for max4. Not =
+very nice but.. :-)
+
+  >C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+  =
+>Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_patch_lib\nel_=
+patch_me
+  >sh.cpp(341) : error C2039: 'patch2' : is not a member of 'PatchEdge'
+  >        C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\patch.h(183) : see declaration of =
+'PatchEdge'
+
+  In max3 sdk, the PatchEdge has this two members :
+
+  int patch1;
+  int patch2;
+
+  Patch1 is the number of the first patch that share the edge, Patch2 is =
+the number of the second patch that share that edge, <0 if it is an open =
+edge.
+  It seems that this members don't exist any more under max4 sdk. You =
+should take a look in your max4 sdk documentation and make a fix in the=20
+  plugin code to work with the new PatchEdge class.
+
+  If you really don't know how to do this, make a post in the list :-).
+
+  Regards,
+
+  Cyril Corvazier
+  ---
+  Lead 3d programmer
+  Nevrax France
+
+    Is there anybody on the list who successfully compiled the exporter =
+plugin with 3DSMAX 4.0 SDK?
+    I'm getting lots of errors because of the use of templates like =
+min(), max(), etc.. that are in the standard MS ATL, but it seems that =
+they're not supported by STLPort?!
+
+    --
+    Valerio Santinelli
+    HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+    In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+    My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0845_01C14C2C.496D33D0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm going to try to do this tonight. =
+I'll let you=20
+know.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>--<BR>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedi=
+a.it/</A><BR></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Dcorvazier@nevrax.com =
+href=3D"mailto:corvazier@nevrax.com">Cyril 'Hulud'=20
+  Corvazier</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 03, =
+2001 4:06=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Nel] Exporter =
+plugin for=20
+  3DSMAX 4.0</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First, thank for this =
+report.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>&gt;C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\box2.h(34) : error=20
+  C2065: 'min' : undeclared <BR>&gt;identifier<BR></FONT><BR><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2>Errors with min are present with the 3dsmax 3.0 sdk =
+too.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Windows standard headers define min =
+and=20
+  max.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>STLPort standard headers don't define min and max but std::min =
+and=20
+  std::max.</DIV>
+  <DIV>The way we have solved the problem is to add manually the =
+following code=20
+  :</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>#ifndef min<BR>#define=20
+  =
+min(a,b)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
+;=20
+  (((a) &lt; (b)) ? (a) : (b))<BR>#endif min</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>in the header box2.h from 3dsmax sdk. I hope it works for max4. =
+Not very=20
+  nice but.. :-)</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>&gt;C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+  =
+<BR>&gt;Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_patch_l=
+ib\nel_patch_me<BR>&gt;sh.cpp(341)=20
+  : error C2039: 'patch2' : is not a member of=20
+  'PatchEdge'<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+  C:\3dsmax4\maxsdk\Include\patch.h(183) : see declaration of =
+'PatchEdge'</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>In max3 sdk, the PatchEdge has this two members :</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>int patch1;<BR>int patch2;</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR>Patch1 is the number of the first patch that share the edge, =
+Patch2=20
+  is the number of the second patch that share that edge, &lt;0 if it is =
+an open=20
+  edge.</DIV>
+  <DIV>It seems that this members don't exist any more under max4 sdk. =
+You=20
+  should take a look in your max4 sdk documentation and make a fix in =
+the </DIV>
+  <DIV>plugin code to work with the new PatchEdge class.</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>If you really don't know how to do this, make a post in the list=20
+  :-).<BR></DIV>
+  <DIV>Regards,</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>Cyril Corvazier<BR>---<BR>Lead 3d programmer<BR>Nevrax=20
+  France<BR></DIV></FONT>
+  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
+  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is there anybody on the list who =
+successfully=20
+    compiled the exporter plugin with 3DSMAX 4.0 SDK?</FONT></DIV>
+    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm getting lots of errors because =
+of the use=20
+    of templates like min(), max(), etc.. that are in the standard MS =
+ATL, but=20
+    it seems that they're not supported by STLPort?!</FONT></DIV>
+    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com=20
+    Founder (<A=20
+    href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+    Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+    href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My =
+Lab (<A=20
+    =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)<BR></FO=
+NT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0845_01C14C2C.496D33D0--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Wed Oct  3 18:43:26 2001
+Received: from fep23-svc.tin.it (mta23-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.76])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f93GhQl56098
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:43:26 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.24]) by fep23-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011003163834.YVMB27943.fep23-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:38:34 +0200
+Message-ID: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:37:55 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C14C3A.8470BE80"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C14C3A.8470BE80
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+hmm.. I got a new error I didn't notice before:
+
+calc_lm.cpp
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256) : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class =
+ExclList' to 'class NameTab &'
+        A reference that is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a =
+non-lvalue
+
+But the three lines about min() and max() did miracles ;)
+
+
+
+Here's an extract about the Class PatchEdge of the new Max SDK
+
+class PatchEdge
+
+Description:
+
+This class describes a patch edge using the vertices at the edge ends, =
+and the indices of the patches sharing the edge.  All methods of this =
+class are implemented by the system.
+
+Data Members:
+
+public:
+
+int v1;
+
+Index of the first vertex.
+
+int vec12;
+
+Vector from v1 to v2.
+
+int vec21;
+
+Vector from v2 to v1.
+
+int v2;
+
+Index of second vertex.
+
+IntTab patches;
+
+Index of the patches using this edge. If the edge is only used by one =
+patch, patches[1] will be less than zero. Note: Previous to R4.0 two =
+separate integer variables (
+patch1 and patch2) were used.
+
+int aux1;=20
+
+This is used to track topology changes during editing (Edit Patch).
+
+int aux2;=20
+
+This is used to track topology changes during editing (PatchMesh).
+
+
+I'm going to try to patch the code myself.. let's see what happens ;)
+
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C14C3A.8470BE80
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hmm.. I got a new error I didn't notice =
+
+before:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>calc_lm.cpp<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft =
+Visual=20
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256)=20
+: error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class ExclList' to =
+'class=20
+NameTab &amp;'<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A reference =
+that is=20
+not to 'const' cannot be bound to a non-lvalue</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But the three lines about min() and =
+max() did=20
+miracles ;)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here's an extract about the Class =
+PatchEdge of the=20
+new Max SDK</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>class PatchEdge</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Description:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This class describes a patch edge using =
+the=20
+vertices at the edge ends, and the indices of the patches sharing the=20
+edge.&nbsp; All methods of this class are implemented by the=20
+system.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Data Members:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>public:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int v1;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index of the first vertex.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int vec12;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vector from v1 to v2.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int vec21;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vector from v2 to v1.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int v2;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index of second vertex.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>IntTab patches;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index of the patches using this edge. =
+If the edge=20
+is only used by one patch, patches[1] will be less than zero. Note: =
+Previous to=20
+R4.0 two separate integer variables (<BR>patch1 and patch2) were=20
+used.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int aux1; </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is used to track topology changes =
+during=20
+editing (Edit Patch).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int aux2; </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is used to track topology changes =
+during=20
+editing (PatchMesh).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm going to try to patch the code =
+myself.. let's=20
+see what happens ;)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C14C3A.8470BE80--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Wed Oct  3 19:32:53 2001
+Received: from fep23-svc.tin.it (mta23-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.76])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f93HWql56382
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:32:52 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.24]) by fep23-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011003172802.ZCMJ27943.fep23-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:28:02 +0200
+Message-ID: <00d701c14c30$a9c166d0$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:27:22 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C14C41.6CFF7230"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C14C41.6CFF7230
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00D4_01C14C41.6CFF7230"
+
+
+------=_NextPart_001_00D4_01C14C41.6CFF7230
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I've had to do some other things in order to get the plugin running.
+
+In the docs, you're saying which ms scripts to move to the scripts =
+directory of 3dsmax, but there are 2 scripts left out. I had to copy =
+them both:
+
+nel_flare.ms
+nel_ps.ms
+
+
+I'm also missing object_viewer.cfg
+I cannot find it anywhere in NeL's cvs.
+
+I'm also trying to compile the various .dlu and such but I'm stuck with =
+this error:
+
+--------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Compiling...
+calc_lm.cpp
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256) : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class =
+ExclList' to 'class NameTab &'
+        A reference that is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a =
+non-lvalue
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+
+I'm also attaching the diffs to the files I patched in order to work =
+with 3dsmax 4.0 SDK.
+
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Valerio Santinelli=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 6:37 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+
+
+  hmm.. I got a new error I didn't notice before:
+
+  calc_lm.cpp
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256) : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class =
+ExclList' to 'class NameTab &'
+          A reference that is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a =
+non-lvalue
+
+  But the three lines about min() and max() did miracles ;)
+
+
+
+  Here's an extract about the Class PatchEdge of the new Max SDK
+
+  class PatchEdge
+
+  Description:
+
+  This class describes a patch edge using the vertices at the edge ends, =
+and the indices of the patches sharing the edge.  All methods of this =
+class are implemented by the system.
+
+  Data Members:
+
+  public:
+
+  int v1;
+
+  Index of the first vertex.
+
+  int vec12;
+
+  Vector from v1 to v2.
+
+  int vec21;
+
+  Vector from v2 to v1.
+
+  int v2;
+
+  Index of second vertex.
+
+  IntTab patches;
+
+  Index of the patches using this edge. If the edge is only used by one =
+patch, patches[1] will be less than zero. Note: Previous to R4.0 two =
+separate integer variables (
+  patch1 and patch2) were used.
+
+  int aux1;=20
+
+  This is used to track topology changes during editing (Edit Patch).
+
+  int aux2;=20
+
+  This is used to track topology changes during editing (PatchMesh).
+
+
+  I'm going to try to patch the code myself.. let's see what happens ;)
+
+
+  --
+  c'ya!
+
+  Valerio Santinelli
+  tanis@mediacom.it
+  HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+  My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+  In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_001_00D4_01C14C41.6CFF7230
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've had to do some other things in =
+order to get=20
+the plugin running.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the docs, you're saying which ms =
+scripts to move=20
+to the scripts directory of 3dsmax, but there are 2 scripts left out. I =
+had to=20
+copy them both:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_flare.ms</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_ps.ms</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm also missing =
+object_viewer.cfg</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I cannot find it anywhere in NeL's=20
+cvs.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm also trying to compile the various =
+.dlu and=20
+such but I'm stuck with this error:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>calc_lm.cpp<BR>C:\Pro=
+grammi\Microsoft=20
+Visual=20
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256)=20
+: error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class ExclList' to =
+'class=20
+NameTab &amp;'<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A reference =
+that is=20
+not to 'const' cannot be bound to a non-lvalue<BR>Error executing=20
+cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm also attaching the diffs to the =
+files I patched=20
+in order to work with 3dsmax 4.0 SDK.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Dtanis@mediacom.it href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">Valerio =
+
+  Santinelli</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 03, =
+2001 6:37=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Exporter Plugin =
+for 3DSMAX=20
+  4.0</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hmm.. I got a new error I didn't =
+notice=20
+  before:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>calc_lm.cpp<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft =
+Visual=20
+  =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256)=20
+  : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class ExclList' =
+to 'class=20
+  NameTab &amp;'<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A =
+reference that=20
+  is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a non-lvalue</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But the three lines about min() and =
+max() did=20
+  miracles ;)</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here's an extract about the Class =
+PatchEdge of=20
+  the new Max SDK</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>class PatchEdge</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Description:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This class describes a patch edge =
+using the=20
+  vertices at the edge ends, and the indices of the patches sharing the=20
+  edge.&nbsp; All methods of this class are implemented by the=20
+  system.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Data Members:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>public:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int v1;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index of the first =
+vertex.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int vec12;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vector from v1 to v2.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int vec21;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Vector from v2 to v1.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int v2;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index of second vertex.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>IntTab patches;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index of the patches using this edge. =
+If the edge=20
+  is only used by one patch, patches[1] will be less than zero. Note: =
+Previous=20
+  to R4.0 two separate integer variables (<BR>patch1 and patch2) were=20
+  used.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int aux1; </FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is used to track topology =
+changes during=20
+  editing (Edit Patch).</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>int aux2; </FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is used to track topology =
+changes during=20
+  editing (PatchMesh).</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm going to try to patch the code =
+myself.. let's=20
+  see what happens ;)</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>
+  <DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+  href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+  Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+  Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+  Flames Italia <A=20
+  =
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_001_00D4_01C14C41.6CFF7230--
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C14C41.6CFF7230
+Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
+	name="nel_patch_mesh.diff"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="nel_patch_mesh.diff"
+
+341c341=0A=
+< 			if ((patch.edges[nSeg].patch2!=3D-1)&&bCreate)=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 			if ((patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]!=3D-1)&&bCreate)=0A=
+355c355=0A=
+< 					if =
+((patch.edges[nSeg0].patch2=3D=3D-1)&&(patch.edges[nSeg1].patch2=3D=3D-1)=
+)=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 					if =
+((patch.edges[nSeg0].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&(patch.edges[nSeg1].patches[1]=3D=
+=3D-1))=0A=
+357c357=0A=
+< 						if (!IsVertexInPatch (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, patch))=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 						if (!IsVertexInPatch (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], =
+patch))=0A=
+382,388c382,388=0A=
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge0].patch2=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge1].patch2=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge2].patch2=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge3].patch2=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+< 							(!IsVertexInPatch (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, patch))&&=0A=
+< 							(!IsVertexInPatch (v2, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, patch))&&=0A=
+< 							(!IsVertexInPatch (v3, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, patch)))=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 							(patch.edges[nEdge0].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+> 							(patch.edges[nEdge1].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+> 							(patch.edges[nEdge2].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+> 							(patch.edges[nEdge3].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&=0A=
+> 							(!IsVertexInPatch (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], =
+patch))&&=0A=
+> 							(!IsVertexInPatch (v2, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], patch))&&=0A=
+> 							(!IsVertexInPatch (v3, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], patch)))=0A=
+1259c1259=0A=
+< 	nlassert (patch.edges[nSeg].patch2=3D=3D-1);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	nlassert (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]=3D=3D-1);=0A=
+1261,1262c1261,1262=0A=
+< 	int nEdge=3DWhereIsTheEdge (patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, nSeg, patch);=0A=
+< 	nlassert =
+(patch.patches[patch.edges[nSeg].patch1].edge[nEdge]=3D=3DnSeg);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	int nEdge=3DWhereIsTheEdge (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nSeg, =
+patch);=0A=
+> 	nlassert =
+(patch.patches[patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0]].edge[nEdge]=3D=3DnSeg);=0A=
+1264c1264=0A=
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, nEdge, nVert, =
+BIND_SINGLE);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	BindingVertex (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert, =
+BIND_SINGLE);=0A=
+1273c1273=0A=
+< 	nlassert (patch.edges[nSeg].patch2=3D=3D-1);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	nlassert (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]=3D=3D-1);=0A=
+1275c1275=0A=
+< 	int nEdge=3DWhereIsTheEdge (patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, nSeg, patch);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	int nEdge=3DWhereIsTheEdge (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nSeg, =
+patch);=0A=
+1277,1279c1277,1279=0A=
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert0, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_25);=0A=
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert1, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_50);=0A=
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert2, patch.edges[nSeg].patch1, nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_75);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	BindingVertex (nVert0, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_25);=0A=
+> 	BindingVertex (nVert1, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_50);=0A=
+> 	BindingVertex (nVert2, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_75);=0A=
+1328,1329c1328,1329=0A=
+< 	if (pMesh->edges[nEdge].patch1=3D=3DnMe)=0A=
+< 		return pMesh->edges[nEdge].patch2;=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	if (pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[0]=3D=3DnMe)=0A=
+> 		return pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[1];=0A=
+1332,1333c1332,1333=0A=
+< 		nlassert (pMesh->edges[nEdge].patch2=3D=3DnMe);=0A=
+< 		return pMesh->edges[nEdge].patch1;=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 		nlassert (pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[1]=3D=3DnMe);=0A=
+> 		return pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[0];=0A=
+2200,2202c2200,2202=0A=
+< 	nlassert ((pEdge->patch1=3D=3DnPatch)||(pEdge->patch2=3D=3DnPatch));=0A=
+< 	if (pEdge->patch1=3D=3DnPatch)=0A=
+< 		return (pEdge->patch2!=3D-1)?pEdge->patch2:nPatch;=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 	nlassert =
+((pEdge->patches[0]=3D=3DnPatch)||(pEdge->patches[1]=3D=3DnPatch));=0A=
+> 	if (pEdge->patches[0]=3D=3DnPatch)=0A=
+> 		return (pEdge->patches[1]!=3D-1)?pEdge->patches[1]:nPatch;=0A=
+2204c2204=0A=
+< 		return (pEdge->patch1!=3D-1)?pEdge->patch1:nPatch;=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 		return (pEdge->patches[0]!=3D-1)?pEdge->patches[0]:nPatch;=0A=
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C14C41.6CFF7230
+Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
+	name="rpo2nel.diff"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="rpo2nel.diff"
+
+357c357=0A=
+< 			if (edge.patch2>=3D0)=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 			if (edge.patches[1]>=3D0)=0A=
+362c362=0A=
+< 				if (edge.patch2!=3Di)=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 				if (edge.patches[1]!=3Di)=0A=
+364,365c364,365=0A=
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Next[0]=3Dedge.patch2;=0A=
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Edge[0]=3DgetCommonEdge(pPM, =
+pPatch->edge[e], pPM->patches[edge.patch2]);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Next[0]=3Dedge.patches[1];=0A=
+> 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Edge[0]=3DgetCommonEdge(pPM, =
+pPatch->edge[e], pPM->patches[edge.patches[1]]);=0A=
+369,370c369,370=0A=
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Next[0]=3Dedge.patch1;=0A=
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Edge[0]=3DgetCommonEdge(pPM, =
+pPatch->edge[e], pPM->patches[edge.patch1]);=0A=
+---=0A=
+> 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Next[0]=3Dedge.patches[0];=0A=
+> 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Edge[0]=3DgetCommonEdge(pPM, =
+pPatch->edge[e], pPM->patches[edge.patches[1]]);=0A=
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C14C41.6CFF7230--
+
+
+From patrick.herrmann@free.fr Wed Oct  3 19:48:23 2001
+Received: from s1.relay.oleane.net (s1.relay.oleane.net [195.25.12.48])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f93HmNl56501
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:48:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from patrick.herrmann@free.fr)
+Received: from there (unknown [212.234.228.177])
+	by s1.relay.oleane.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 87E211FA1F
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed,  3 Oct 2001 19:43:38 +0200 (CEST)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-15"
+From: Patrick Herrmann <patrick.herrmann@free.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:40:13 -0400
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
+References: <20011003091033.5D0901FA98@s1.relay.oleane.net> <001101c14bf7$7f7c6a70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+In-Reply-To: <001101c14bf7$7f7c6a70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Message-Id: <20011003174338.87E211FA1F@s1.relay.oleane.net>
+Subject: [Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+The following code is compiling and linking very well, but when launching the 
+generated application (executable), I get a "segmentation fault" error.
+
+I figured out that it was the call to the function NLNET_SERVICE_MAIN that 
+causes the error.
+
+I'm working on a Mandrake platform, using g++ compiler.
+
+Thanks for your answer,
+
+Patrick
+
+#include "nel/net/service.h"		// Declaration of the IService interface
+#include "nel/net/message.h"		// Declaration of the CMessage class
+#include "nel/net/buf_server.h"		// Declaration of type TSockId
+#include "nel/net/callback_net_base.h"	// Declaration of the CCallbackNetBase 
+class and type TCallbackItem
+
+using namespace NLNET;
+
+void cbProcessConnection(CMessage& message, TSockId from, CCallbackNetBase& 
+nb)
+{
+        cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: %s\n", 
+message.toString();
+}
+
+void cbProcessReceivedMsg(CMessage& message, TSockId from, CCallbackNetBase& 
+nb)
+{
+        cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing message | Message: %s\n", 
+message.toString();
+}
+
+TCallbackItem KGECallbackArray[] =
+{
+        { "MSG", cbProcessReceivedMsg },
+        { "NEW", cbProcessConnection }
+};
+
+NLNET_SERVICE_MAIN (IService, "KGE", "kge_service", 0, KGECallbackArray);
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Oct  4 10:53:52 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f948rpl93637
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:53:51 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f948n7u35790
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:49:07 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002701c14cb1$6d67b500$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011003091033.5D0901FA98@s1.relay.oleane.net> <001101c14bf7$7f7c6a70$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20011003174338.87E211FA1F@s1.relay.oleane.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:49:07 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-15"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+You should take a look into the log.log file or to the stdout log because
+the reason should be explain. I tried your service and it started without
+problem.
+The first problem could be that you don't create the kge_config.cfg with the
+2 variables that say where the naming service is. Copy the time_service.cfg
+for example, and remove only the UniTime variable.
+Another posibility is that you didn't launch the admin_executor_service,
+naming_service and time_service before running your service so it could not
+find these standard services.
+But without any log, I can't say exactly what is your problem.
+
+You have writtent that in your service:
+> cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: %s\n",
+message.toString();
+I never see a so strange this things, you try to mix up cout and printf
+string format in the same line, I really don't tink that it could work fine,
+you should put:
+   cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: " <<
+message.toString() << endl;
+or
+   printf  ("KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: %s\n",
+message.toString().c_str()); /* don't format the c_str() to convert stl
+string to char* */
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Patrick Herrmann" <patrick.herrmann@free.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:40 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!
+
+
+> Hi,
+>
+> The following code is compiling and linking very well, but when launching
+the
+> generated application (executable), I get a "segmentation fault" error.
+>
+> I figured out that it was the call to the function NLNET_SERVICE_MAIN that
+> causes the error.
+>
+> I'm working on a Mandrake platform, using g++ compiler.
+>
+> Thanks for your answer,
+>
+> Patrick
+>
+> #include "nel/net/service.h" // Declaration of the IService interface
+> #include "nel/net/message.h" // Declaration of the CMessage class
+> #include "nel/net/buf_server.h" // Declaration of type TSockId
+> #include "nel/net/callback_net_base.h" // Declaration of the
+CCallbackNetBase
+> class and type TCallbackItem
+>
+> using namespace NLNET;
+>
+> void cbProcessConnection(CMessage& message, TSockId from,
+CCallbackNetBase&
+> nb)
+> {
+>         cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: %s\n",
+> message.toString();
+> }
+>
+> void cbProcessReceivedMsg(CMessage& message, TSockId from,
+CCallbackNetBase&
+> nb)
+> {
+>         cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing message | Message: %s\n",
+> message.toString();
+> }
+>
+> TCallbackItem KGECallbackArray[] =
+> {
+>         { "MSG", cbProcessReceivedMsg },
+>         { "NEW", cbProcessConnection }
+> };
+>
+> NLNET_SERVICE_MAIN (IService, "KGE", "kge_service", 0, KGECallbackArray);
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Oct  4 10:57:59 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f948vrl93723
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:57:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f948r4u35935
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:53:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003101c14cb1$fce4cce0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 10:53:07 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C14CC2.C0550BD0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C14CC2.C0550BD0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Valerio,
+
+Ok, it looks like a patch edge can be shared by more than 2 patches in =
+max4.
+So, max guys have removed the two patch references (patch1, patch2) and =
+replace them by an int array.
+
+So, in max 4, it should be possible to redefine patch1 like this:
+
+#ifdef NEL_FOR_MAX4
+#define patch1 patches[0]
+#define patch2 patches[1]
+#endif // NEL_FOR_MAX4
+
+I haven't tested thoses solutions, but it should work.
+  IntTab patches;
+  =20
+  Index of the patches using this edge. If the edge is only used by one =
+patch, patches[1] will be less than zero. Note: Previous to R4.0 two =
+separate integer variables (
+  patch1 and patch2) were used.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C14CC2.C0550BD0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Valerio,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok, it looks like a patch edge can be =
+shared by=20
+more than 2 patches in max4.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, max guys have removed the two patch =
+references=20
+(patch1, patch2) and replace them by an int array.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, in max 4, it should be possible to =
+redefine=20
+patch1 like this:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#ifdef NEL_FOR_MAX4</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#define patch1 patches[0]
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#define patch2=20
+patches[1]</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2>#endif // NEL_FOR_MAX4</FONT></DIV></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>
+<DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>I haven't tested thoses solutions, but it should =
+work.</DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>IntTab patches;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index of the patches using this edge. =
+If the edge=20
+  is only used by one patch, patches[1] will be less than zero. Note: =
+Previous=20
+  to R4.0 two separate integer variables (<BR>patch1 and patch2) were=20
+  used.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cyril.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C14CC2.C0550BD0--
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Oct  4 11:06:49 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9496ml93918
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:06:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f94924u36167
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:02:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <004601c14cb3$3e85fd30$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis> <00d701c14c30$a9c166d0$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:02:07 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01C14CC4.01F97070"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C14CC4.01F97070
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+Ok, thanks for the patch, i will add the modification to the original =
+source code.
+  In the docs, you're saying which ms scripts to move to the scripts =
+directory of 3dsmax, but there are 2 scripts left out. I had to copy =
+them both:
+  =20
+  nel_flare.ms
+  nel_ps.ms
+ Ok, i will update the documentation.
+  I'm also missing object_viewer.cfg
+We will add a copy of the file in the folder nel/tools/3d/object_viewer
+  I'm also trying to compile the various .dlu and such but I'm stuck =
+with this error:
+  =20
+  --------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+  Compiling...
+  calc_lm.cpp
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256) : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class =
+ExclList' to 'class NameTab &'
+          A reference that is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a =
+non-lvalue
+  Error executing cl.exe.
+ Ok, i will check this quickly.
+
+Thank for your posts Valerio. :-)
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C14CC4.01F97070
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok, thanks for the patch, i will add =
+the=20
+modification to the original source code.</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the docs, you're saying which ms =
+scripts to=20
+  move to the scripts directory of 3dsmax, but there are 2 scripts left =
+out. I=20
+  had to copy them both:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_flare.ms</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_ps.ms</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>Ok, i will=20
+update the documentation.</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm also missing=20
+object_viewer.cfg</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We will add a copy of the file in the =
+folder=20
+nel/tools/3d/object_viewer</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm also trying to compile the =
+various .dlu and=20
+  such but I'm stuck with this error:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+  Win32=20
+  =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>calc_lm.cpp<BR>C:\Pro=
+grammi\Microsoft=20
+  Visual=20
+  =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256)=20
+  : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class ExclList' =
+to 'class=20
+  NameTab &amp;'<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A =
+reference that=20
+  is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a non-lvalue<BR>Error executing=20
+  cl.exe.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>Ok, i will=20
+check this quickly.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank for your posts Valerio. =
+:-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cyril.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0043_01C14CC4.01F97070--
+
+
+From vizerie@nevrax.com Thu Oct  4 11:18:48 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f949Ill94107
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:18:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nicolasv (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f949E2u36527;
+	Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:14:02 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001f01c14cb4$e96af650$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+From: "Nicolas Vizerie" <vizerie@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <tanis@mediacom.it>
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:14:03 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C14CC5.ACDCBBE0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] object viewer config file
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C14CC5.ACDCBBE0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello,
+
+I've put an example for object_viewer.cfg in the CVS
+you'll find it in \nel\tools\3d\object_viewer
+
+Regards,
+
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+
+I've had to do some other things in order to get the plugin running.
+
+In the docs, you're saying which ms scripts to move to the scripts =3D
+directory of 3dsmax, but there are 2 scripts left out. I had to copy =3D
+them both:
+
+nel_flare.ms
+nel_ps.ms
+
+
+I'm also missing object_viewer.cfg
+I cannot find it anywhere in NeL's cvs.
+
+I'm also trying to compile the various .dlu and such but I'm stuck with =
+=3D
+this error:
+
+--------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =3D
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Compiling...
+calc_lm.cpp
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =3D
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+=3D
+m.cpp(256) : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class =
+=3D
+ExclList' to 'class NameTab &'
+        A reference that is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a =3D
+non-lvalue
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+
+I'm also attaching the diffs to the files I patched in order to work =3D
+with 3dsmax 4.0 SDK.
+
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C14CC5.ACDCBBE0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've put an example for =
+object_viewer.cfg in the=20
+CVS</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you'll find it in=20
+\nel\tools\3d\object_viewer</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nicolas Vizerie</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>From: "Valerio Santinelli" &lt;<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A>&gt;<BR>To: =
+&lt;<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: =
+[Nel]=20
+Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>I've had to do some other things in =
+order to=20
+get the plugin running.<BR><BR>In the docs, you're saying which ms =
+scripts to=20
+move to the scripts =3D<BR>directory of 3dsmax, but there are 2 scripts =
+left out.=20
+I had to copy =3D<BR>them =
+both:<BR><BR>nel_flare.ms<BR>nel_ps.ms<BR><BR><BR>I'm=20
+also missing object_viewer.cfg<BR>I cannot find it anywhere in NeL's=20
+cvs.<BR><BR>I'm also trying to compile the various .dlu and such but I'm =
+stuck=20
+with =3D<BR>this error:<BR><BR>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+Win32=20
+=3D<BR>ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>calc_lm.cpp<BR=
+>C:\Programmi\Microsoft=20
+Visual=20
+=3D<BR>Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib=
+\calc_l=3D<BR>m.cpp(256)=20
+: error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class =
+=3D<BR>ExclList' to=20
+'class NameTab &amp;'<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A =
+reference=20
+that is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a =3D<BR>non-lvalue<BR>Error =
+executing=20
+cl.exe.<BR><BR><BR>I'm also attaching the diffs to the files I patched =
+in order=20
+to work =3D<BR>with 3dsmax 4.0 =
+SDK.<BR><BR><BR>--<BR>c'ya!<BR><BR>Valerio=20
+Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR><BR></DIV=
+></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C14CC5.ACDCBBE0--
+
+
+From patrick.herrmann@free.fr Thu Oct  4 12:20:03 2001
+Received: from s1.relay.oleane.net (s1.relay.oleane.net [195.25.12.48])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f94AK2l95454
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:20:02 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from patrick.herrmann@free.fr)
+Received: from there (unknown [212.234.228.177])
+	by s1.relay.oleane.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A6CB1FA85
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  4 Oct 2001 12:15:17 +0200 (CEST)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-15"
+From: Patrick Herrmann <patrick.herrmann@free.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:11:49 -0400
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
+References: <20011003091033.5D0901FA98@s1.relay.oleane.net> <20011003174338.87E211FA1F@s1.relay.oleane.net> <002701c14cb1$6d67b500$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+In-Reply-To: <002701c14cb1$6d67b500$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Message-Id: <20011004101517.9A6CB1FA85@s1.relay.oleane.net>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Right, I forgot to start all needed services from nelns. So I launched:
+	the naming_service
+	the time_service
+	the log_service
+	the login_service
+	the admin_executor_service
+	the admin_service
+	the welcome_service
+All services told me they are ready. Then I started my personnal service, 
+and...
+	"INF32165 service.cpp 363 : Starting Service 'KGE' using NeL (Oct  4 2001 
+10:54:12)
+	Segmentation fault"
+
+I checked the log.log file, but it was still empty.
+
+I noticed that the pacs_service is not included within the global Makefile. I 
+added it, but I got some errros when compiling. Anyway, right now, although I 
+started all possible services, I am not able to start the one I coded.
+
+Patrick
+
+P.S.: Ouaou, I wondered myself how I could write the "cout" line of code! 
+Thanks to point it out. It didn't solve the problem.
+
+On Thursday 04 October 2001 04:49 am, you wrote:
+> Hello,
+>
+> You should take a look into the log.log file or to the stdout log because
+> the reason should be explain. I tried your service and it started without
+> problem.
+> The first problem could be that you don't create the kge_config.cfg with
+> the 2 variables that say where the naming service is. Copy the
+> time_service.cfg for example, and remove only the UniTime variable.
+> Another posibility is that you didn't launch the admin_executor_service,
+> naming_service and time_service before running your service so it could not
+> find these standard services.
+> But without any log, I can't say exactly what is your problem.
+>
+> You have writtent that in your service:
+> > cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: %s\n",
+>
+> message.toString();
+> I never see a so strange this things, you try to mix up cout and printf
+> string format in the same line, I really don't tink that it could work
+> fine, you should put:
+>    cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: " <<
+> message.toString() << endl;
+> or
+>    printf  ("KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: %s\n",
+> message.toString().c_str()); /* don't format the c_str() to convert stl
+> string to char* */
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o?
+> K- w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+>
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "Patrick Herrmann" <patrick.herrmann@free.fr>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 1:40 AM
+> Subject: [Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!
+>
+> > Hi,
+> >
+> > The following code is compiling and linking very well, but when launching
+>
+> the
+>
+> > generated application (executable), I get a "segmentation fault" error.
+> >
+> > I figured out that it was the call to the function NLNET_SERVICE_MAIN
+> > that causes the error.
+> >
+> > I'm working on a Mandrake platform, using g++ compiler.
+> >
+> > Thanks for your answer,
+> >
+> > Patrick
+> >
+> > #include "nel/net/service.h" // Declaration of the IService interface
+> > #include "nel/net/message.h" // Declaration of the CMessage class
+> > #include "nel/net/buf_server.h" // Declaration of type TSockId
+> > #include "nel/net/callback_net_base.h" // Declaration of the
+>
+> CCallbackNetBase
+>
+> > class and type TCallbackItem
+> >
+> > using namespace NLNET;
+> >
+> > void cbProcessConnection(CMessage& message, TSockId from,
+>
+> CCallbackNetBase&
+>
+> > nb)
+> > {
+> >         cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing connection | Message: %s\n",
+> > message.toString();
+> > }
+> >
+> > void cbProcessReceivedMsg(CMessage& message, TSockId from,
+>
+> CCallbackNetBase&
+>
+> > nb)
+> > {
+> >         cout << "KGE_1.0 | Processing message | Message: %s\n",
+> > message.toString();
+> > }
+> >
+> > TCallbackItem KGECallbackArray[] =
+> > {
+> >         { "MSG", cbProcessReceivedMsg },
+> >         { "NEW", cbProcessConnection }
+> > };
+> >
+> > NLNET_SERVICE_MAIN (IService, "KGE", "kge_service", 0, KGECallbackArray);
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Oct  4 12:33:08 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f94AX5l95785
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:33:05 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f94ASIu38207
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:28:18 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <004301c14cbf$488784f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011003091033.5D0901FA98@s1.relay.oleane.net> <20011003174338.87E211FA1F@s1.relay.oleane.net> <002701c14cb1$6d67b500$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20011004101517.9A6CB1FA85@s1.relay.oleane.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:28:18 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-15"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Without more informations, I don't know why the crash occurs. Try to compile
+in debug mode and use gdb and look where it crashs
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Thu Oct  4 17:24:32 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f94FORl01617
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:24:29 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp85.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.85])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA14912
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:19:36 +0400
+Message-ID: <000a01c14ce8$26f86060$55ad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:19:49 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C14D09.894CA2F0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Small bugfix
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C14D09.894CA2F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello, it's really small :-)
+
+Index: service.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: e:/repositories/warfair/nel/src/net/service.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.1.1.1
+diff -r1.1.1.1 service.cpp
+742c742
+<    ((CWinDisplayer *)wd)->update ();
+---
+>    cwd->update ();
+
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+wd doesn't contain valid pointer at the time update() is called.
+
+Order of service startup in /nelns/howto should be fixed: log_service =
+looks for the time_service and quits when cannot find it, so =
+time_service should be started _before_ the log_service.
+
+PS. Not yet familiar with all code but am feeling it's a GOOD THING :-)
+
+--AS
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C14D09.894CA2F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dkoi8-r">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2462.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello, it's really small =
+:-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Index:=20
+service.cpp<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>RCS=
+=20
+file: e:/repositories/warfair/nel/src/net/service.cpp,v<BR>retrieving =
+revision=20
+1.1.1.1<BR>diff -r1.1.1.1 service.cpp<BR>742c742<BR>&lt;=20
+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;((CWinDisplayer *)wd)-&gt;update ();<BR>---<BR>&gt;=20
+&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;cwd-&gt;update ();</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>wd doesn't contain valid pointer =
+at the time=20
+update() is called.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Order of service startup in =
+/nelns/howto should be=20
+fixed: log_service looks for the time_service and quits when cannot find =
+it, so=20
+time_service should be started _before_ the log_service.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PS. Not yet familiar with all code but =
+am feeling=20
+it's a GOOD THING :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
+size=3D2>--AS</FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C14D09.894CA2F0--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Oct  4 17:57:24 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f94FvNl01802
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:57:23 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f94Fqcu44690
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:52:38 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00a001c14cec$97908bf0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000a01c14ce8$26f86060$55ad3bd5@breaker>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Small bugfix
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 17:52:38 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Anatoly,
+
+Thanks for the bug report, it should occurs only on windows with dos
+application and we always use windows application, it explains why we didn't
+have this bug. Anyway, it was fixed and commited.
+
+/nelns/howto is out of date, in fact, log_service isn't used anymore, so you
+don't have to launch it :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Oct  4 20:19:27 2001
+Received: from fep19-svc.tin.it (pop09-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.72])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f94IJQl02453
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:19:26 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.24]) by fep19-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011004181435.BOOB14026.fep19-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:14:35 +0200
+Message-ID: <003601c14d00$5446cf30$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis> <003101c14cb1$fce4cce0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:13:54 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01C14D11.1770DD60"
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C14D11.1770DD60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+  #ifdef NEL_FOR_MAX4
+  #define patch1 patches[0]=20
+  #define patch2 patches[1]
+  #endif // NEL_FOR_MAX4
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C14D11.1770DD60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#ifdef NEL_FOR_MAX4</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#define patch1 patches[0]=20
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#define patch2=20
+  patches[1]</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2><FONT=20
+  face=3DArial size=3D2>#endif // NEL_FOR_MAX4</FONT></DIV></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2>
+  <DIV>
+  <DIV></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C14D11.1770DD60--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Oct  4 20:20:18 2001
+Received: from fep19-svc.tin.it (pop09-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.72])
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+          id <20011004181527.BOPY14026.fep19-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:15:27 +0200
+Message-ID: <003b01c14d00$7316b010$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis> <003101c14cb1$fce4cce0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:14:46 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Sorry but I sent a wrong message with the previous one :)
+
+>#ifdef NEL_FOR_MAX4
+>#define patch1 patches[0] 
+>#define patch2 patches[1]
+>#endif // NEL_FOR_MAX4
+
+Cyril, could you please add those lines to the cvs ?
+Thanks!
+
+Valerio
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Oct  4 22:06:35 2001
+Received: from fep13-svc.tin.it (mta13-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.44])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f94K6Zl02972
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:06:35 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.24]) by fep13-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011004200144.BLSN7316.fep13-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:01:44 +0200
+Message-ID: <001901c14d0f$4c3f4e70$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis> <003101c14cb1$fce4cce0$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <003b01c14d00$7316b010$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:01:03 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Oops!  I just found out that those lines aren't working because of parameter
+names in various functions. They replace even various references that are
+just parameters and not arrays ;)
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:14 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+
+
+> Sorry but I sent a wrong message with the previous one :)
+>
+> >#ifdef NEL_FOR_MAX4
+> >#define patch1 patches[0]
+> >#define patch2 patches[1]
+> >#endif // NEL_FOR_MAX4
+>
+> Cyril, could you please add those lines to the cvs ?
+> Thanks!
+>
+> Valerio
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Fri Oct  5 14:10:36 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f95CAYl09915
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:10:35 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp134.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.134])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA15516
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:05:46 +0400
+Message-ID: <003201c14d96$3b246a80$2aad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: "Nevrax mailing list" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:06:54 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Max plugin series continues...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello, here are some new findings in the Max plugin code:
+
+1. cursor1.cur is absent, so I've replaced the reference to it in the
+nel_export.rc to "..\\..\\tile_edit\\cursor1.cur"
+2. nel_export_view.cpp contains absolute path to
+"r:/code/nel/tools/3d/object_viewer/object_viewer_interface.h", replaced to
+"../../object_viewer/object_viewer_interface.h"
+
+PS. Yesterday spent 2 hours looking for a reason why the text not rendered
+properly in the Snowballs, found the little insect, fixed it, executed "cvs
+update" and what ? Someone at Nevrax had fixed the same bug already :-)
+
+--AS
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Fri Oct  5 14:37:50 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f95Cbnl10141
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:37:49 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp42.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.42])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11501
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:23:42 +0400
+Message-ID: <002801c14d90$60985570$2aad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:24:51 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Another small bugfix
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello, while compiling the Max plugin I've found that line 118 of
+collision_mesh_build.h should be
+
+  bool operator() (const CEdgeKey &a, const CEdgeKey &b) const <-- the
+'const' is essential here
+
+--AS
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Oct  5 15:58:46 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f95Dwil10652
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:58:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f95Druu61094
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:53:56 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005e01c14da5$2ff73fc0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:54:01 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Libxml
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+NeL has a new external dependence:
+
+NLMISC now needs libxml2 to link properly.
+
+http://xmlsoft.org/
+
+We have added an XML stream to serialize more intelligible data.
+Final version of the data can be serialised with a binary stream to save
+place and read performance.
+
+Stream interface has been increased to add XML node declaration, node
+properties and XML comments.
+
+libxml2 is easy to compile and install.
+To avoid some unneeded dependencies, undef those macro in the config file:
+
+#define LIBXML_FTP_ENABLED
+#define LIBXML_HTTP_ENABLED
+
+All works fine under windows.
+Cedric works on the installation process under linux.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+---
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Oct  5 17:17:05 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f95FGrl11066
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:16:56 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f95FBou62806
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:11:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008d01c14db0$0ee1dab0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:11:50 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] time_service
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+There was a "bug" in the time_service that "crash" when starting the service
+without any message. If you have this problem, you can remove the last
+function in the time_service.cpp that look like NLMISC_COMMAND (time,
+"displays the universal time", "") or wait tomorrow and cvs update NeL and
+NeLNS.
+Sorry for this.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Oct  5 17:18:42 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f95FIdl11084
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:18:40 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f95FDlu62841
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:13:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00e001c14db0$577fa310$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00a901c14c29$c146b050$0364a8c0@tanis> <00d701c14c30$a9c166d0$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0
+Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:13:51 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DD_01C14DC1.1AF7AA30"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00DD_01C14DC1.1AF7AA30
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Valerio,
+
+I have added your fixe. We recommand to use this macro to solve =
+max3/max4 sdk compatibilty :
+
+// Define the macro
+#include <plugapi.h>
+
+#if (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)
+// Code for max version < 4
+...
+else // (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)
+// Code for max 4
+...
+endif // (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)
+
+  --------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+  Compiling...
+  calc_lm.cpp
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256) : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class =
+ExclList' to 'class NameTab &'
+          A reference that is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a =
+non-lvalue
+  Error executing cl.exe.
+I have disactived the code under max4 and add a "todo" comment.=20
+The reason is GetExclusionList() doesn't return a NameTab any more but a =
+ExclTab. And i don't know what a ExclTab is !
+Feel free to make a patch for this part. :-)=20
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00DD_01C14DC1.1AF7AA30
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Valerio,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have added your fixe. We recommand to =
+use this=20
+macro to solve max3/max4 sdk compatibilty :</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>// Define the macro</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#include &lt;plugapi.h&gt;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#if (MAX_RELEASE &lt; =
+4000)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>// Code for max version &lt; =
+4</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>else // (MAX_RELEASE &lt; =
+4000)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>// Code for max 4</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>...</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>endif // (MAX_RELEASE &lt; =
+4000)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+  Win32=20
+  =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>calc_lm.cpp<BR>C:\Pro=
+grammi\Microsoft=20
+  Visual=20
+  =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\calc_l=
+m.cpp(256)=20
+  : error C2440: 'initializing' : cannot convert from 'class ExclList' =
+to 'class=20
+  NameTab &amp;'<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A =
+reference that=20
+  is not to 'const' cannot be bound to a non-lvalue<BR>Error executing=20
+  cl.exe.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have disactived the code under max4 =
+and add a=20
+"todo" comment. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The reason&nbsp;is GetExclusionList() =
+doesn't=20
+return a NameTab any more but a ExclTab. And i don't know what a ExclTab =
+is=20
+!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Feel free to make a patch for this =
+part.=20
+:-)</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cyril Corvazier</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00DD_01C14DC1.1AF7AA30--
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Fri Oct  5 20:29:13 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f95IT9l12193
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:29:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp78.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.78])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA04882
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 22:24:22 +0400
+Message-ID: <002b01c14dcb$21b626d0$4ead3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: "Nevrax mailing list" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 22:25:36 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Happy me
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Sorry for a possible offtopic, I've just got all things compiled and am
+running both server and client of Snowballs on my machine. The war with the
+MAX 4 SDK seems over too, at least, all plugins were compiled without
+errors, obviously need testing, but it will be tomorrow. And now I'm just
+happy :-))
+
+--AS
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Sat Oct  6 12:09:19 2001
+Received: from fep15-svc.tin.it (mta15-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.46])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f96A9Jl19212
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:09:19 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.24]) by fep15-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011006100427.PLTU23823.fep15-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:04:27 +0200
+Message-ID: <002101c14e4e$2f2ae340$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:03:44 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C14E5E.F2567810"
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Again 3DS 4.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C14E5E.F2567810
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001E_01C14E5E.F2567810"
+
+
+------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C14E5E.F2567810
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I made a few corrections to the patch Cyril made to the exportplugin for =
+3dsmax. There are a few missing checks here and there :)
+
+I attached the diffs.
+
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C14E5E.F2567810
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I made a few corrections to the patch =
+Cyril made to=20
+the exportplugin for 3dsmax. There are a few missing checks here and =
+there=20
+:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I attached the diffs.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_001_001E_01C14E5E.F2567810--
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C14E5E.F2567810
+Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
+	name="nel_patch_mesh.diff"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="nel_patch_mesh.diff"
+
+343a344=0A=
+> #if (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)=0A=
+348a350,356=0A=
+> #else // (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)=0A=
+> 			if ((patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]!=3D-1)&&bCreate)=0A=
+> 			{=0A=
+> 				if (bAssert)=0A=
+> 					nlassert (0);=0A=
+> 			}=0A=
+> #endif // (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)=0A=
+1302a1311=0A=
+> #if (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)=0A=
+1306d1314=0A=
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)=0A=
+1312a1321,1323=0A=
+> 	// Une side of the edge must be cleared=0A=
+> 	nlassert (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]=3D=3D-1);=0A=
+> =0A=
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C14E5E.F2567810
+Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
+	name="rpo2nel.diff"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="rpo2nel.diff"
+
+359a360=0A=
+> #if (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)=0A=
+365d365=0A=
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE < 4000)=0A=
+376a377,381=0A=
+> 			if (edge.patches[1]>=3D0)=0A=
+> 			{		=0A=
+> 				patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].NPatchs=3D1;=0A=
+> 				// 'coz i don't know wether edge.patch1 or edge.patch2 is=0A=
+> 				// the patch that i am parsing=0A=
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C14E5E.F2567810--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Sat Oct  6 12:25:42 2001
+Received: from fep15-svc.tin.it (mta15-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.46])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f96APfl19310
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:25:42 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.24]) by fep15-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011006102050.PMUE23823.fep15-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:20:50 +0200
+Message-ID: <002c01c14e50$78f86720$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:20:07 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C14E61.3C2EAA50"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] 3ds4
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C14E61.3C2EAA50
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+There's something wrong with nel_mesh_lib.. it goes in conflict with the =
+MS Platform SDK or the Standard ATL (depends if you've istalled the =
+latest MS PSDK or not, but the problem is the same).
+
+
+--------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =
+Release--------------------
+Compiling...
+stdafx.cpp
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'Address'
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2501: 'Address' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error =
+C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : undeclared identifier
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error =
+C2057: expected constant expression
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(625) : error =
+C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' has an illegal zero-sized array
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\stdafx=
+.h(44) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'bipexp.h': No =
+such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+nel_mesh_lib.lib - 7 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+
+
+Here's a piece of bhtypes.h
+
+//=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D
+//  AddressInfo structure
+//=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D
+#define SORT_BYADDRESS  0
+#define SORT_BYNAME     1
+
+#define PERMANENT_NAME  0x00000100
+
+typedef struct _ADDRESSINFO *LPADDRESSINFO;
+typedef struct _ADDRESSINFO
+{
+    ADDRESS        Address;
+    WCHAR          Name[MAX_NAME_SIZE];
+    DWORD          Flags;
+    LPVOID         lpAddressInstData;
+} ADDRESSINFO;
+
+#define ADDRESSINFO_SIZE    sizeof(ADDRESSINFO)
+
+
+
+I guess ADDRESS or whatever gets overridden by something in NeL, but I =
+have no clue..
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C14E61.3C2EAA50
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There's something wrong with =
+nel_mesh_lib.. it goes=20
+in conflict with the MS Platform SDK or the Standard ATL (depends if =
+you've=20
+istalled the latest MS PSDK or not, but the problem is the =
+same).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+Win32=20
+Release--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>stdafx.cpp<BR>C:\Programmi=
+\Microsoft=20
+Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error C2146: syntax error : =
+missing ';'=20
+before identifier 'Address'<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform=20
+SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing =
+storage-class or=20
+type specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform =
+SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) :=20
+error C2501: 'Address' : missing storage-class or type=20
+specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) =
+: error=20
+C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : undeclared identifier<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft =
+
+Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error C2057: expected constant=20
+expression<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(625) =
+: error=20
+C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' has an illegal zero-sized=20
+array<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\stdafx=
+.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'bipexp.h': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_mesh_lib.lib - 7 error(s), 0=20
+warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Here's a piece of bhtypes.h</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>//=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>//&nbsp;=20
+AddressInfo=20
+structure<BR>//=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>#define=20
+SORT_BYADDRESS&nbsp; 0<BR>#define SORT_BYNAME&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+1</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>#define PERMANENT_NAME&nbsp; 0x00000100</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>typedef struct _ADDRESSINFO *LPADDRESSINFO;<BR>typedef struct=20
+_ADDRESSINFO<BR>{<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+ADDRESS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+Address;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+WCHAR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+Name[MAX_NAME_SIZE];<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+DWORD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+Flags;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+LPVOID&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+lpAddressInstData;<BR>}=20
+ADDRESSINFO;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>#define ADDRESSINFO_SIZE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+sizeof(ADDRESSINFO)<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>I guess ADDRESS or whatever gets overridden by something in NeL, =
+but I have=20
+no clue..</DIV>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C14E61.3C2EAA50--
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Sun Oct  7 18:41:58 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f97Gful27947
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:41:57 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp83.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.83])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA12822
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:37:02 +0400
+Message-ID: <000b01c14f4e$76543cc0$53ad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: "Nevrax mailing list" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:38:14 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C14F6F.FC948300"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C14F6F.FC948300
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Hello,
+
+Max 4 plugins seem to be functional. I've attached my version of patch (the
+diff is against the pre-Max4 version of NeL, so #ifs are looking differently
+:-).
+
+Are there some general guidelines for the process of landscape creation ? Is
+there something special about data organization, etc ? As I currently
+understand, the artist should first form the tile bank to be able to texture
+the landscape. What I miss is that what the general concepts of the tile
+bank structure are. What the tile set's children are for, for example ?
+Next comes the section of questions about the zones. Are there rules (or
+limits) about how many patches should be in the zone, optimal patch size
+(curvature), how many zones may be in the landscape, should all zones be in
+the same .max file, etc ?
+
+In general, I need to explain our 3d artist what he is to do to create the
+_proper_ landscape, the one that may be painlessly imported into NeL.
+
+Or maybe there are some .max projects we might learn from.
+
+--AS
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C14F6F.FC948300
+Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
+	name="plugin_max.diff"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="plugin_max.diff"
+
+Index: compilation_notes.txt
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/compilation_notes.txt,v
+retrieving revision 1.1.1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1.1.1
+diff -r1.1.1.2 -r1.1.1.1
+5c5
+< * $Id: compilation_notes.txt,v 1.1.1.2 2001/10/06 06:19:41 Anatoly =
+Sennov Exp $
+---
+> * $Id: compilation_notes.txt,v 1.1.1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:24 Anatoly =
+Sennov Exp $
+77,78d76
+< * nel_flare.ms
+< * nel_ps.ms
+Index: plugin_max_public.dsw
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/plugin_max_public.dsw,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+21,41d20
+< Project: "all"=3D..\..\..\src\all.dsp - Package Owner=3D<4>
+<=20
+< Package=3D<5>
+< {{{
+< }}}
+<=20
+< Package=3D<4>
+< {{{
+<     Begin Project Dependency
+<     Project_Dep_Name nel_export
+<     End Project Dependency
+<     Begin Project Dependency
+<     Project_Dep_Name nel_patch_converter
+<     End Project Dependency
+<     Begin Project Dependency
+<     Project_Dep_Name tile_utility
+<     End Project Dependency
+< }}}
+<=20
+< =
+#########################################################################=
+######
+<=20
+136a116,118
+>     Begin Project Dependency
+>     Project_Dep_Name misc
+>     End Project Dependency
+204,216c186
+< Project: "pacs"=3D..\..\..\src\pacs.dsp - Package Owner=3D<4>
+<=20
+< Package=3D<5>
+< {{{
+< }}}
+<=20
+< Package=3D<4>
+< {{{
+< }}}
+<=20
+< =
+#########################################################################=
+######
+<=20
+< Project: "sound"=3D..\..\..\src\sound.dsp - Package Owner=3D<4>
+---
+> Project: "sound"=3DR:\code\nel\src\sound.dsp - Package Owner=3D<4>
+231c201
+< Project: =
+"sound_lowlevel"=3D..\..\..\src\sound\driver\sound_lowlevel.dsp - =
+Package Owner=3D<4>
+---
+> Project: =
+"sound_lowlevel"=3DR:\code\nel\src\sound\driver\sound_lowlevel.dsp - =
+Package Owner=3D<4>
+Index: nel_3dsmax_shared/nel_3dsmax_shared.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_3dsmax_shared/nel_3ds=
+max_shared.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: nel_3dsmax_shared.cpp,v 1.2 2001/10/06 07:38:38 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_3dsmax_shared.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:25 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+57c57
+< CPatchAllocator& GetAllocator ()
+---
+> NEL_3DSMAX_SHARED_API CPatchAllocator& GetAllocator ()
+Index: nel_3dsmax_shared/nel_3dsmax_shared.dsp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_3dsmax_shared/nel_3ds=
+max_shared.dsp,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+29c29
+< CPP=3Dxicl6.exe
+---
+> CPP=3Dcl.exe
+55c55
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+68,69c68,69
+< # PROP Output_Dir "../../../../lib"
+< # PROP Intermediate_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/nel_max_shared"
+---
+> # PROP Output_Dir "Debug"
+> # PROP Intermediate_Dir "Debug"
+73c73
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /I =
+"e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" /I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I =
+"e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../../../../include" /I "../../../../src" /I =
+"e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /D "_MBCS" =
+/D "_USRDLL" /D "NEL_3DSMAX_SHARED_EXPORTS" /Yu"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" =
+/D "_WINDOWS" /D "_MBCS" /D "_USRDLL" /D "NEL_3DSMAX_SHARED_EXPORTS" /D =
+"__STL_DEBUG" /Yu"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /c
+81c81
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+83c83
+< # ADD LINK32 kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib winspool.lib =
+comdlg32.lib advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib oleaut32.lib uuid.lib =
+odbc32.lib odbccp32.lib maxscrpt.lib core.lib geom.lib gfx.lib mesh.lib =
+maxutil.lib Maxscrpt.lib /nologo /dll /debug /machine:I386 =
+/out:"../../../../bin/plugin_max/nel_3dsmax_shared_debug.dll" =
+/pdbtype:sept /libpath:"e:\sdk\MaxSDK\lib" /libpath:"e:\sdk\STLPort\lib"
+---
+> # ADD LINK32 kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib winspool.lib =
+comdlg32.lib advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib oleaut32.lib uuid.lib =
+odbc32.lib odbccp32.lib maxscrpt.lib core.lib geom.lib gfx.lib mesh.lib =
+maxutil.lib Maxscrpt.lib /nologo /dll /debug /machine:I386 =
+/out:"C:\3dsmax3_1 debug\exe\nel_3dsmax_shared.dll" /pdbtype:sept
+108c108
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+151,162d150
+< # End Source File
+< # Begin Source File
+<=20
+< SOURCE=3D..\..\..\..\lib\nlmisc_debug.lib
+< # End Source File
+< # Begin Source File
+<=20
+< SOURCE=3D..\..\..\..\lib\nl3d_debug.lib
+< # End Source File
+< # Begin Source File
+<=20
+< SOURCE=3D..\..\..\..\lib\nel_patch_lib_debug.lib
+Index: nel_3dsmax_shared/nel_3dsmax_shared.h
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_3dsmax_shared/nel_3ds=
+max_shared.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+9c9
+<  * $Id: nel_3dsmax_shared.h,v 1.2 2001/10/06 07:38:38 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_3dsmax_shared.h,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:25 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+37c37
+< NEL_3DSMAX_SHARED_API CPatchAllocator& GetAllocator ();
+---
+> extern NEL_3DSMAX_SHARED_API CPatchAllocator& GetAllocator ();
+Index: nel_export/nel_export.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_export/nel_export.cpp=
+,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: nel_export.cpp,v 1.2 2001/10/07 15:48:02 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_export.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:25 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+197,199d196
+< #ifdef _DEBUG
+< 				HMODULE hModule =3D GetModuleHandle("nelexport_debug.dlu");
+< #else
+201d197
+< #endif
+Index: nel_export/nel_export.dsp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_export/nel_export.dsp=
+,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+30c30
+< CPP=3Dxicl6.exe
+---
+> CPP=3Dcl.exe
+56c56
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+74,75c74,75
+< # PROP Output_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/nel_export"
+< # PROP Intermediate_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/nel_export"
+---
+> # PROP Output_Dir "Debug"
+> # PROP Intermediate_Dir "Debug"
+79c79
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /G6 /MDd /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /Od /I =
+"e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" /I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I =
+"e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../../../../include" /I "../../../../src" /I =
+"e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include" /I "e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include/maxscrpt" /I =
+"e:/sdk/CStudioSDK" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /FR =
+/Yu"std_afx.h" /FD /Zm200 /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /G6 /MDd /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /Od /I =
+"D:\3DSMAX3\Maxsdk\include" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /D =
+"__STL_DEBUG" /FR /Yu"std_afx.h" /FD /Zm200 /c
+87c87
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+89c89,94
+< # ADD LINK32 comctl32.lib winmm.lib kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib =
+winspool.lib comdlg32.lib advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib =
+oleaut32.lib uuid.lib odbc32.lib odbccp32.lib version.lib core.lib =
+geom.lib gfx.lib mesh.lib maxutil.lib maxscrpt.lib gup.lib paramblk2.lib =
+bmm.lib /nologo /base:"0x105b0000" /subsystem:windows /dll =
+/incremental:no /debug /machine:I386 /nodefaultlib:"msvcrt.lib" =
+/out:"../../../../bin\plugin_max\nelexport_debug.dlu" /pdbtype:sept =
+/libpath:"e:\sdk\MaxSDK\lib" /libpath:"e:\sdk\STLPort\lib" =
+/libpath:"e:\sdk\freetype\objs"
+---
+> # ADD LINK32 freetype.lib comctl32.lib bmm.lib core.lib geom.lib =
+gfx.lib mesh.lib maxutil.lib maxscrpt.lib gup.lib paramblk2.lib =
+winmm.lib kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib winspool.lib comdlg32.lib =
+advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib oleaut32.lib uuid.lib odbc32.lib =
+odbccp32.lib version.lib /nologo /base:"0x105b0000" /subsystem:windows =
+/dll /incremental:no /debug /machine:I386 /out:"C:\3dsmax3_1 =
+debug\exe\plugins\nelexport.dlu" /pdbtype:sept =
+/libpath:"D:\3DSMAX3\Maxsdk\lib"
+> # Begin Special Build Tool
+> SOURCE=3D"$(InputPath)"
+> PostBuild_Desc=3Dcopy dans max normal
+> PostBuild_Cmds=3Dcopy "c:\3dsmax3_1 debug\exe\plugins\nelexport.dlu" =
+"c:\3dsmax3_1\plugins"	echo copie dans max
+> # End Special Build Tool
+113c118
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+140c145
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+253c258
+< SOURCE=3D..\..\tile_edit\cursor1.cur
+---
+> SOURCE=3D.\cursor1.cur
+Index: nel_export/nel_export.h
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_export/nel_export.h,v=
+
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: nel_export.h,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_export.h,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+114,116d113
+< #ifdef NEL_MAX_SDK_4
+<     TCHAR* GetRsrcString(StringResID id) { return NULL; }
+< #endif
+Index: nel_export/nel_export.rc
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_export/nel_export.rc,=
+v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+234c234
+< IDC_CURSOR1             CURSOR  DISCARDABLE     =
+"..\\..\\tile_edit\\cursor1.cur"
+---
+> IDC_CURSOR1             CURSOR  DISCARDABLE     "cursor1.cur"
+Index: nel_export/nel_export_view.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_export/nel_export_vie=
+w.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: nel_export_view.cpp,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_export_view.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+34c34
+< #include "../../object_viewer/object_viewer_interface.h"
+---
+> #include =
+"r:/code/nel/tools/3d/object_viewer/object_viewer_interface.h"
+Index: nel_export/std_afx.h
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_export/std_afx.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: std_afx.h,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: std_afx.h,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+47,49d46
+<=20
+< #undef min
+< #undef max
+\ No newline at end of file
+Index: nel_mesh_lib/StdAfx.h
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_mesh_lib/StdAfx.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: StdAfx.h,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: StdAfx.h,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+49,51d48
+<=20
+< #undef min
+< #undef max
+Index: nel_mesh_lib/calc_lm.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_mesh_lib/calc_lm.cpp,=
+v
+retrieving revision 1.3
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.3 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: calc_lm.cpp,v 1.3 2001/10/06 07:38:38 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: calc_lm.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+27a28
+> #include "export_nel.h"
+40d40
+< #include "export_nel.h"
+255d254
+< 		/// \todo hulud: modify this code to work under max4
+257,259d255
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 		ExclList& ntExclu =3D maxLight->GetExclusionList();
+< #else
+261d256
+< #endif
+264,266d258
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 			string tmp =3D ntExclu[i]->GetName();
+< #else
+268d259
+< #endif
+Index: nel_mesh_lib/export_nel.h
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_mesh_lib/export_nel.h=
+,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: export_nel.h,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: export_nel.h,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+30d29
+< #include <pacs/collision_mesh_build.h>
+36a36
+> #include <pacs/collision_mesh_build.h>
+Index: nel_mesh_lib/nel_mesh_lib.dsp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_mesh_lib/nel_mesh_lib=
+.dsp,v
+retrieving revision 1.3
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.3 -r1.1
+30c30
+< CPP=3Dxicl6.exe
+---
+> CPP=3Dcl.exe
+52c52
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+65,66c65,66
+< # PROP Output_Dir "../../../../lib"
+< # PROP Intermediate_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/nel_mesh_lib"
+---
+> # PROP Output_Dir "Debug"
+> # PROP Intermediate_Dir "Debug"
+69c69
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /MDd /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /Od /I "e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" =
+/I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I "e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 =
+Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../../../../include" /I "../../../../src" /I =
+"e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include" /I "e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include/maxscrpt" /I =
+"e:/sdk/CStudioSDK" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /FR =
+/Yu"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /Zm200 /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /MDd /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /Od /I =
+"D:\3DSMAX3\Maxsdk\include" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" =
+/D "__STL_DEBUG" /FR /Yu"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /Zm200 /c
+75c75
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+77c77
+< # ADD LIB32 /nologo /out:"../../../../lib\nel_mesh_lib_debug.lib"
+---
+> # ADD LIB32 /nologo
+98c98
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+121c121
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+Index: nel_patch_converter/nel_patch_converter.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_converter/nel_p=
+atch_converter.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.3
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.3 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: nel_patch_converter.cpp,v 1.3 2001/10/07 15:48:05 Anatoly =
+Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_patch_converter.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly =
+Sennov Exp $
+37a38
+>=20
+132,134d132
+< #ifdef _DEBUG
+< 			HMODULE hModule =3D GetModuleHandle("nelconvertpatch_debug.dlm");
+< #else
+136d133
+< #endif
+Index: nel_patch_converter/nel_patch_converter.dsp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_converter/nel_p=
+atch_converter.dsp,v
+retrieving revision 1.3
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.3 -r1.1
+30c30
+< CPP=3Dxicl6.exe
+---
+> CPP=3Dcl.exe
+56c56
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+74,75c74,75
+< # PROP Output_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/nel_patch_converter"
+< # PROP Intermediate_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/nel_patch_converter"
+---
+> # PROP Output_Dir "Debug"
+> # PROP Intermediate_Dir "Debug"
+79c79
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /G6 /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /Zi /Od /I =
+"e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" /I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I =
+"e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../../../../include" /I "../../../../src" /I =
+"e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include" /I "e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include/maxscrpt" /I =
+"e:/sdk/CStudioSDK" /I "..\RPO" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /FR =
+/FD /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /G6 /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /Zi /Od /I =
+"C:\3dsmax3_1\Maxsdk\include ..\RPO" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D =
+"_WINDOWS" /D "__STL_DEBUG" /FR /FD /c
+88c88
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+90c90
+< # ADD LINK32 maxscrpt.lib kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib =
+winspool.lib comdlg32.lib advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib =
+oleaut32.lib uuid.lib odbc32.lib odbccp32.lib comctl32.lib bmm.lib =
+core.lib geom.lib gfx.lib mesh.lib maxutil.lib Maxscrpt.lib version.lib =
+paramblk2.lib /nologo /base:"0x105b0000" /subsystem:windows /dll /debug =
+/machine:I386 =
+/out:"../../../../bin\plugin_max\nelconvertpatch_debug.dlm" =
+/pdbtype:sept /libpath:"e:\sdk\MaxSDK\lib" /libpath:"e:\sdk\STLPort\lib" =
+/libpath:"e:\sdk\freetype\objs"
+---
+> # ADD LINK32 maxscrpt.lib kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib =
+winspool.lib comdlg32.lib advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib =
+oleaut32.lib uuid.lib odbc32.lib odbccp32.lib comctl32.lib bmm.lib =
+core.lib geom.lib gfx.lib mesh.lib paramblk2.lib maxutil.lib =
+Maxscrpt.lib version.lib /nologo /base:"0x105b0000" /subsystem:windows =
+/dll /debug /machine:I386 /out:"C:\3dsmax3_1 =
+debug\exe\plugins\nelconvertpatch.dlm" /pdbtype:sept =
+/libpath:"C:\3dsmax3_1\Maxsdk\lib"
+114c114
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+142c142
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+Index: nel_patch_converter/script.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_converter/scrip=
+t.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: script.cpp,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: script.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+29,30d28
+< #undef min
+< #undef max
+Index: nel_patch_lib/nel_patch_lib.dsp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_lib/nel_patch_l=
+ib.dsp,v
+retrieving revision 1.3
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.3 -r1.1
+30c30
+< CPP=3Dxicl6.exe
+---
+> CPP=3Dcl.exe
+46c46
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /O2 /I "e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" /I =
+"e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I "e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 Extensions\Include" =
+/I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I "e:\Python20\Include" /I "../include" /I =
+"." /D "WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /FD /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /O2 /D "WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D =
+"_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /FD /c
+53c53
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+66,67c66,67
+< # PROP Output_Dir "../../../../lib"
+< # PROP Intermediate_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/nel_patch_lib"
+---
+> # PROP Output_Dir "Debug"
+> # PROP Intermediate_Dir "Debug"
+70c70
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /I =
+"e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" /I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I =
+"e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../../../../include" /I "../../../../src" /I =
+"e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" =
+/Yu"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" =
+/D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D "__STL_DEBUG" /Yu"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /c
+76c76
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+78c78
+< # ADD LIB32 /nologo /out:"../../../../lib\nel_patch_lib_debug.lib"
+---
+> # ADD LIB32 /nologo
+93c93
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /MD /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /I =
+"e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" /I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I =
+"e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../include" /I "." /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D =
+"WIN32" /D "__STL_DEBUG" /FR /YX"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /MD /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D =
+"WIN32" /D "__STL_DEBUG" /FR /YX"stdafx.h" /FD /GZ /c
+99c99
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+117c117
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /I "e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" =
+/I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I "e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 =
+Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../include" /I "." /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D =
+"WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D "NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /FD /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D =
+"WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D "NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /FD /c
+124c124
+< LIB32=3Dxilink6.exe -lib
+---
+> LIB32=3Dlink.exe -lib
+Index: nel_patch_lib/nel_patch_mesh.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_lib/nel_patch_m=
+esh.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.4
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.4 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: nel_patch_mesh.cpp,v 1.4 2001/10/07 15:48:05 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_patch_mesh.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov =
+Exp $
+32,34d31
+< // For MAX_RELEASE
+< #include <plugapi.h>
+<=20
+344,346d340
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 			if ((patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]!=3D-1)&&bCreate)
+< #else
+348d341
+< #endif
+362,366d354
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 					if =
+((patch.edges[nSeg0].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&(patch.edges[nSeg1].patches[1]=3D=
+=3D-1))
+< 					{
+< 						if (!IsVertexInPatch (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], =
+patch))
+< #else
+370d357
+< #endif
+395,403d381
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge0].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge1].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge2].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&
+< 							(patch.edges[nEdge3].patches[1]=3D=3D-1)&&
+< 							(!IsVertexInPatch (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], =
+patch))&&
+< 							(!IsVertexInPatch (v2, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], patch))&&
+< 							(!IsVertexInPatch (v3, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], patch)))
+< #else
+411d388
+< #endif
+1282,1289d1258
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 	nlassert (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]=3D=3D-1);
+<=20
+<     int nEdge=3DWhereIsTheEdge (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nSeg, =
+patch);
+< 	nlassert =
+(patch.patches[patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0]].edge[nEdge]=3D=3DnSeg);
+<=20
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert, =
+BIND_SINGLE);
+< #else
+1296d1264
+< #endif
+1305,1313d1272
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 	nlassert (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[1]=3D=3D-1);
+<=20
+< 	int nEdge=3DWhereIsTheEdge (patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nSeg, =
+patch);
+<=20
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert0, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_25);
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert1, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_50);
+< 	BindingVertex (nVert2, patch.edges[nSeg].patches[0], nEdge, nVert1, =
+BIND_75);
+< #else
+1321d1279
+< #endif
+1323c1281
+<     InvalidateBindingInfo ();
+---
+> 	InvalidateBindingInfo ();
+1370,1378d1327
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 	if (pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[0]=3D=3DnMe)
+< 		return pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[1];
+< 	else
+< 	{
+< 		nlassert (pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[1]=3D=3DnMe);
+< 		return pMesh->edges[nEdge].patches[0];
+< 	}
+< #else
+1386d1334
+< #endif
+2252,2258d2199
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 	nlassert =
+((pEdge->patches[0]=3D=3DnPatch)||(pEdge->patches[1]=3D=3DnPatch));
+< 	if (pEdge->patches[0]=3D=3DnPatch)
+< 		return (pEdge->patches[1]!=3D-1)?pEdge->patches[1]:nPatch;
+< 	else
+< 		return (pEdge->patches[0]!=3D-1)?pEdge->patches[1]:nPatch;
+< #else
+2264d2204
+< #endif
+2629,2630c2569
+< 										TVFace *pTvP=3DpMesh->mapFaces(nChannel);
+< #if(MAX_RELEASE < 4000)
+---
+> 										TVFace *pTvP=3DpMesh->mapFaces(nChannel)+f;
+2632d2570
+< #endif
+2635d2572
+<                                             pTvP +=3D f;
+Index: nel_patch_lib/nel_patch_mesh.h
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_lib/nel_patch_m=
+esh.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: nel_patch_mesh.h,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp =
+$
+---
+>  * $Id: nel_patch_mesh.h,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp =
+$
+38,40d37
+<=20
+< #undef min
+< #undef max
+Index: nel_patch_lib/path_mesh_alloc.h
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_lib/path_mesh_a=
+lloc.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: path_mesh_alloc.h,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp =
+$
+---
+>  * $Id: path_mesh_alloc.h,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp =
+$
+79c79
+< 			if (!(*ite)->_Allocated)
+---
+> 			if (!ite->get()->_Allocated)
+81,82c81,82
+< 				(*ite)->_Allocated=3Dtrue;
+< 				return &((*ite)->_Array);
+---
+> 				ite->get()->_Allocated=3Dtrue;
+> 				return &ite->get()->_Array;
+93c93
+< 		_ArrayList.push_back (pElement);
+---
+> 		_ArrayList.push_back (std::auto_ptr<CArrayElement<T> > (pElement));
+96,97c96,97
+< 		(*ite)->_Allocated=3Dtrue;
+< 		return &((*ite)->_Array);
+---
+> 		ite->get()->_Allocated=3Dtrue;
+> 		return &ite->get()->_Array;
+115c115
+< 			if (&((*ite)->_Array)=3D=3Dptr)
+---
+> 			if (&ite->get()->_Array=3D=3Dptr)
+117c117
+< 				(*ite)->_Allocated=3Dfalse;
+---
+> 				ite->get()->_Allocated=3Dfalse;
+129,131c129,130
+< //typedef std::list< std::auto_ptr<CArrayElement<T> > > ListArray;
+< // \todo AS: check if auto_ptr is REALLY needed here
+< typedef std::list< CArrayElement<T> *> ListArray;
+---
+> typedef std::list< std::auto_ptr<CArrayElement<T> > > ListArray;
+>=20
+Index: nel_patch_lib/rpo.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_lib/rpo.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: rpo.cpp,v 1.2 2001/10/05 16:18:57 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: rpo.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+70c70
+< 	};
+---
+> 	}
+Index: nel_patch_lib/rpo2nel.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_lib/rpo2nel.cpp=
+,v
+retrieving revision 1.3
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.3 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: rpo2nel.cpp,v 1.3 2001/10/06 07:38:38 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+---
+>  * $Id: rpo2nel.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp $
+27,28d26
+< #undef min
+< #undef max
+32,34d29
+< // For MAX_RELEASE
+< #include <plugapi.h>
+<=20
+362,364d356
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 			if (edge.patches[1]>=3D0)
+< #else
+366d357
+< #endif
+371,382d361
+< #if (MAX_RELEASE >=3D 4000)
+< 				if (edge.patches[1]!=3Di)
+< 				{
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Next[0]=3Dedge.patches[1];
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Edge[0]=3DgetCommonEdge(pPM, =
+pPatch->edge[e], pPM->patches[edge.patches[1]]);
+< 				}
+< 				else
+< 				{
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Next[0]=3Dedge.patches[0];
+< 					patchinfo[i].BindEdges[e].Edge[0]=3DgetCommonEdge(pPM, =
+pPatch->edge[e], pPM->patches[edge.patches[0]]);
+< 				}			=09
+< #else
+393d371
+< #endif
+Index: tile_utility/tile_utility.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/tile_utility/tile_utility=
+.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+4c4
+<  * $Id: tile_utility.cpp,v 1.2 2001/10/07 15:48:05 Anatoly Sennov Exp =
+$
+---
+>  * $Id: tile_utility.cpp,v 1.1 2001/10/03 08:56:26 Anatoly Sennov Exp =
+$
+105,107d104
+< #ifdef _DEBUG
+< 			HMODULE hModule =3D GetModuleHandle("neltileutility_debug.dlu");
+< #else
+109d105
+< #endif
+Index: tile_utility/tile_utility.dsp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: =
+e:/repositories/warfair/nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/tile_utility/tile_utility=
+.dsp,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.2 -r1.1
+30c30
+< CPP=3Dxicl6.exe
+---
+> CPP=3Dcl.exe
+56c56
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+74,75c74,75
+< # PROP Output_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/tile_utility"
+< # PROP Intermediate_Dir "../../../../obj/Debug/tile_utility"
+---
+> # PROP Output_Dir "Debug"
+> # PROP Intermediate_Dir "Debug"
+79c79
+< # ADD CPP /nologo /G6 /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /I =
+"e:\sdk\STLPort\stlport" /I "e:\sdk\OpenAL 1.0 SDK\Include" /I =
+"e:\sdk\EAX 2.0 Extensions\Include" /I "e:\sdk\freetype\include" /I =
+"e:\Python20\Include" /I "../../../../include" /I "../../../../src" /I =
+"e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include" /I "e:/sdk/MaxSDK/include/maxscrpt" /I =
+"e:/sdk/CStudioSDK" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /FR /YX /FD /c
+---
+> # ADD CPP /nologo /G6 /MDd /W3 /Gm /GR /GX /ZI /Od /I =
+"C:\3dsmax3_1\Maxsdk\include" /D "WIN32" /D "_DEBUG" /D "_WINDOWS" /D =
+"__STL_DEBUG" /FR /YX /FD /c
+88c88
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+90c90
+< # ADD LINK32 kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib winspool.lib =
+comdlg32.lib advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib oleaut32.lib uuid.lib =
+odbc32.lib odbccp32.lib comctl32.lib bmm.lib core.lib geom.lib gfx.lib =
+mesh.lib maxutil.lib maxscrpt.lib gup.lib paramblk2.lib version.lib =
+/nologo /base:"0x105b0000" /subsystem:windows /dll /debug /machine:I386 =
+/out:"../../../../bin/plugin_max\neltileutility_debug.dlu" /pdbtype:sept =
+/libpath:"e:\sdk\MaxSDK\lib" /libpath:"e:\sdk\STLPort\lib" =
+/libpath:"e:\sdk\freetype\objs"
+---
+> # ADD LINK32 kernel32.lib user32.lib gdi32.lib winspool.lib =
+comdlg32.lib advapi32.lib shell32.lib ole32.lib oleaut32.lib uuid.lib =
+odbc32.lib odbccp32.lib comctl32.lib bmm.lib core.lib geom.lib gfx.lib =
+mesh.lib maxutil.lib maxscrpt.lib gup.lib paramblk2.lib version.lib =
+/nologo /base:"0x105b0000" /subsystem:windows /dll /debug /machine:I386 =
+/out:"C:\3dsmax3_1 debug\exe\Plugins\neltileutility.dlu" /pdbtype:sept =
+/libpath:"C:\3dsmax3_1\Maxsdk\lib"
+114c114
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+141c141
+< LINK32=3Dxilink6.exe
+---
+> LINK32=3Dlink.exe
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C14F6F.FC948300--
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Oct  8 19:21:24 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f98HLLl35277
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:21:21 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f98HGXu81866
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:16:33 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008801c1501c$fdbc0a70$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002101c14e4e$2f2ae340$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Again 3DS 4.0
+Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:16:38 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0085_01C1502D.C1341190"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C1502D.C1341190
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+I have added your patch. Sorry about that, but i modify the code in =
+blind mode :).
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril
+
+
+  I made a few corrections to the patch Cyril made to the exportplugin =
+for 3dsmax. There are a few missing checks here and there :)
+  =20
+  I attached the diffs.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C1502D.C1341190
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have added your patch. Sorry about =
+that, but i=20
+modify the code in blind mode :).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cyril</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I made a few corrections to the patch =
+Cyril made=20
+  to the exportplugin for 3dsmax. There are a few missing checks here =
+and there=20
+  :)</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I attached the diffs.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0085_01C1502D.C1341190--
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Oct  8 19:25:46 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f98HPil35323
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:25:45 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f98HKsu81897
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:20:54 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <009201c1501d$9935d440$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002c01c14e50$78f86720$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 3ds4
+Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:20:59 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01C1502E.5CB3F5E0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C1502E.5CB3F5E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I really don't know what is the problem.
+Have you tried to change the include directory order in your =
+Tools/Options/Directory menu ?
+The mine is:
+
+STLPort,
+MaxSDK,
+NeL/src,
+NeL/include,
+Directx,
+Visual,
+Freetype,
+Openal,
+Libxml
+
+Cyril.
+  =20
+  --------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =
+Release--------------------
+  Compiling...
+  stdafx.cpp
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'Address'
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2501: 'Address' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error =
+C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : undeclared identifier
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error =
+C2057: expected constant expression
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(625) : error =
+C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' has an illegal zero-sized array
+  C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\stdafx=
+.h(44) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'bipexp.h': No =
+such file or directory
+  Error executing cl.exe.
+
+  nel_mesh_lib.lib - 7 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C1502E.5CB3F5E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I&nbsp;really don't know what is the=20
+problem.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have you tried to change the include =
+directory=20
+order in your Tools/Options/Directory menu ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The mine is:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>STLPort,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MaxSDK,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NeL/src,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NeL/include,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Directx,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Visual,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Freetype,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Openal,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Libxml</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cyril.</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+  Win32=20
+  =
+Release--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>stdafx.cpp<BR>C:\Programmi=
+\Microsoft=20
+  Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error C2146: syntax error : =
+missing ';'=20
+  before identifier 'Address'<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform=20
+  SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing =
+storage-class or=20
+  type specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform =
+SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623)=20
+  : error C2501: 'Address' : missing storage-class or type=20
+  specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform =
+SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) :=20
+  error C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : undeclared =
+identifier<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft=20
+  Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error C2057: expected constant=20
+  expression<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform =
+SDK\include\bhtypes.h(625) :=20
+  error C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' has an illegal zero-sized=20
+  array<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+  =
+Studio\MyProjects\nevrax\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_mesh_lib\stdafx=
+.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'bipexp.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_mesh_lib.lib - 7 error(s), 0=20
+  warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+  <DIV><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C1502E.5CB3F5E0--
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Oct  8 19:38:18 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f98HcGl35413
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:38:16 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f98HXSu81954
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:33:28 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00b701c1501f$5af44250$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000b01c14f4e$76543cc0$53ad3bd5@breaker>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions
+Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:33:34 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+
+> Max 4 plugins seem to be functional. I've attached my version of patch
+(the
+> diff is against the pre-Max4 version of NeL, so #ifs are looking
+differently
+> :-).
+
+
+Good work, i know that compiling NeL plugins for 3dsmax 4 is a big challenge
+:-).
+Not that in general, the NeL team add include and lib directories in the
+visual pathes,
+not in the DSP files.
+
+> Are there some general guidelines for the process of landscape creation ?
+Is
+> there something special about data organization, etc ? As I currently
+> understand, the artist should first form the tile bank to be able to
+texture
+> the landscape. What I miss is that what the general concepts of the tile
+> bank structure are. What the tile set's children are for, for example ?
+> Next comes the section of questions about the zones. Are there rules (or
+> limits) about how many patches should be in the zone, optimal patch size
+> (curvature), how many zones may be in the landscape, should all zones be
+in
+> the same .max file, etc ?
+
+Ok, give me some times to make a complete reply to your post with some max
+exemples.
+
+You must know that we have an internal plugin, a modified version of
+discreet editpatch, in which
+we "paint" the landscape textures, colors and displacement textures. We
+can't distribute this plugin
+for licenses reason. You should contact Robert Bjarnason from InOrbit. He
+has started to write
+an ingame painter for the NeL landscape.
+He has made a post about this project in the list some weeks ago.
+
+Thank for your feedback and stay tuned!
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Tue Oct  9 08:30:18 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f996UEl39539
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:30:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp55.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.55])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA23574
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:25:24 +0400
+Message-ID: <001b01c1508b$548568b0$37ad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000b01c14f4e$76543cc0$53ad3bd5@breaker> <00b701c1501f$5af44250$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions
+Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:26:26 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Cyril,
+
+>
+> Good work, i know that compiling NeL plugins for 3dsmax 4 is a big
+challenge
+> :-).
+> Not that in general, the NeL team add include and lib directories in the
+> visual pathes,
+> not in the DSP files.
+>
+
+I've got a habit to not touch the 'directories' tab - the changes there will
+affect all projects you have on machine and it's easy to come to situation
+where different developers will have different compile environments for the
+same project. DSPs are under CVS control, so we always know where our
+includes and libs come from.
+
+>
+> Ok, give me some times to make a complete reply to your post with some max
+> exemples.
+
+I'll be waiting :-)
+
+>
+> You must know that we have an internal plugin, a modified version of
+> discreet editpatch, in which
+> we "paint" the landscape textures, colors and displacement textures. We
+> can't distribute this plugin
+> for licenses reason. You should contact Robert Bjarnason from InOrbit. He
+> has started to write
+> an ingame painter for the NeL landscape.
+> He has made a post about this project in the list some weeks ago.
+
+Thanks, I'll try to contact him. For now, however, I'd prefer the 3ds plugin
+for landscape texturing, so artist might stay in the same environment all
+the way. I'll try to investigate what could be done.
+
+--AS
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Oct  9 10:37:58 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f998btl40181
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:37:56 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f998X4u84201
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:33:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001b01c1509d$03f43c70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000b01c14f4e$76543cc0$53ad3bd5@breaker> <00b701c1501f$5af44250$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <001b01c1508b$548568b0$37ad3bd5@breaker>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions
+Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:33:04 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I've got a habit to not touch the 'directories' tab - the changes there
+will
+> affect all projects you have on machine and it's easy to come to situation
+> where different developers will have different compile environments for
+the
+> same project. DSPs are under CVS control, so we always know where our
+> includes and libs come from.
+
+You're right, but it's not so easy, because putting include dir in the dsp
+means that everybody must install external library in the same directory.
+For example, I installed directx on my E:\mssdk and my friend install it on
+his C:\sdk\dx. Another problem is that we have to set up the directory for
+all new project and we have dozen of project!
+There's not perfect solution for this problem so we decided to use directory
+tab for all libraries (NeL included);
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Tue Oct  9 10:45:12 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f998jBl40251
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:45:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 31512 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 08:30:58 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 08:30:58 -0000
+Message-ID: <0ab801c1509e$1019b6a0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000b01c14f4e$76543cc0$53ad3bd5@breaker> <00b701c1501f$5af44250$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <001b01c1508b$548568b0$37ad3bd5@breaker> <001b01c1509d$03f43c70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions
+Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:40:34 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+
+> > I've got a habit to not touch the 'directories' tab - the changes there
+> will
+> > affect all projects you have on machine and it's easy to come to
+situation
+> > where different developers will have different compile environments for
+> the
+> > same project. DSPs are under CVS control, so we always know where our
+> > includes and libs come from.
+>
+> You're right, but it's not so easy, because putting include dir in the dsp
+> means that everybody must install external library in the same directory.
+> For example, I installed directx on my E:\mssdk and my friend install it
+on
+> his C:\sdk\dx. Another problem is that we have to set up the directory for
+> all new project and we have dozen of project!
+> There's not perfect solution for this problem so we decided to use
+directory
+> tab for all libraries (NeL included);
+
+I've got the habit of moving directories path up and down in the path list
+under the directories tab, so that's not a problem for me :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Oct 12 14:11:18 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9CCBCW17889
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:11:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9CC6O624436
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+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9CC6B756638
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:06:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:06:11 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Libxml
+Message-ID: <20011012140611.A56359@nevrax.com>
+References: <005e01c14da5$2ff73fc0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <005e01c14da5$2ff73fc0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>; from corvazier@nevrax.com on Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 03:54:01PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all,
+
+Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier wrote:
+> 
+> All works fine under windows.
+> Cedric works on the installation process under linux.
+
+That was done few days ago, and i forgot to post a message on that ...
+
+If you got the following error, when launching NeL's configure script,
+relaunch it with the '--disable-xmltest' option :
+
+    checking for libxml - version >= 2.0.0... no
+    *** Could not run libxml test program, checking why...
+    *** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log
+    for the
+    *** exact error that occured. This usually means LIBXML was incorrectly
+    installed
+    *** or that you have moved LIBXML since it was installed. In the latter
+    case, you
+    *** may want to edit the xml2-config script: /usr/bin/xml2-config
+    configure: error: libxml2 must be installed.
+
+
+
+Have fun.
+
+-- 
+Cedric
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Mon Oct 15 18:19:50 2001
+Received: from femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.38])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9FGJnx01565
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:19:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
+Received: from cx431135c ([24.36.31.14]) by femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with SMTP
+          id <20011015161411.JMMB21343.femail44.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx431135c>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:14:11 -0700
+Message-ID: <002601c15594$3f421260$0e1f2418@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:12:54 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1556A.56320EA0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] libxml problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1556A.56320EA0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Every time I go to compile libxml, my computer gives me a BSD and I =
+can't recover from it.
+
+How exactly am I supposed to use libxml?  Do I just put the source in a =
+place where my compiler can find it while compiling the NeL libraries?  =
+Do I need to compile libxml seperately and put the results in a lib =
+where the compiler can find it?
+
+TAI
+
+Jared Mark
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1556A.56320EA0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Every time I go to compile libxml, my computer gives =
+me a BSD=20
+and I can't recover from it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>How exactly am I supposed to use libxml?&nbsp; Do I =
+just put=20
+the source in a place where my compiler can find it while compiling the =
+NeL=20
+libraries?&nbsp; Do I need to compile libxml seperately and put the =
+results in a=20
+lib where the compiler can find it?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>TAI</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C1556A.56320EA0--
+
+
+From jmark4@home.com Mon Oct 15 18:29:59 2001
+Received: from femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.254.60.35])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9FGTwx01638
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:29:58 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from jmark4@home.com)
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+          id <20011015162506.JRJK5211.femail41.sdc1.sfba.home.com@cx431135c>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:25:06 -0700
+Message-ID: <002e01c15595$c61f1b60$0e1f2418@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+From: "Jared Mark" <jmark4@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002601c15594$3f421260$0e1f2418@omhan1.ne.home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] libxml problem
+Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:23:50 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Nevermind... I just pointed my VS to the include directory for it, and NeL
+is compiling fine now... no need to compile the libxml at all.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: Jared Mark
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 11:12 AM
+Subject: [Nel] libxml problem
+
+
+Every time I go to compile libxml, my computer gives me a BSD and I can't
+recover from it.
+
+How exactly am I supposed to use libxml?  Do I just put the source in a
+place where my compiler can find it while compiling the NeL libraries?  Do I
+need to compile libxml seperately and put the results in a lib where the
+compiler can find it?
+
+TAI
+
+Jared Mark
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Tue Oct 16 17:14:32 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9GFEUx08893
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:14:31 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9GF9e716626
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:09:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001b01c15654$9897eea0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000b01c14f4e$76543cc0$53ad3bd5@breaker> <00b701c1501f$5af44250$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions
+Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:09:42 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi there,
+
+> > Are there some general guidelines for the process of landscape creation
+?
+> Is
+> > there something special about data organization, etc ? As I currently
+> > understand, the artist should first form the tile bank to be able to
+> texture
+> > the landscape. What I miss is that what the general concepts of the tile
+> > bank structure are. What the tile set's children are for, for example ?
+> > Next comes the section of questions about the zones. Are there rules (or
+> > limits) about how many patches should be in the zone, optimal patch size
+> > (curvature), how many zones may be in the landscape, should all zones be
+> in
+> > the same .max file, etc ?
+
+Just a word to say that we have added the painter plugin in the cvs tree.
+(nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_paint).
+After your question, we have decided to detach the painter from the
+"modified" edit patch plugin.
+
+I will post a compete "how to deal with landscape" answer soon.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Tue Oct 16 19:48:42 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9GHmfx09666
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:48:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp71.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.71])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26021
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:43:53 +0400
+Message-ID: <001101c1566a$44265710$47ad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: "Nevrax mailing list" <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000b01c14f4e$76543cc0$53ad3bd5@breaker> <00b701c1501f$5af44250$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <001b01c15654$9897eea0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions
+Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:44:44 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
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+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Cyril,
+
+> 
+> Just a word to say that we have added the painter plugin in the cvs tree.
+> (nel/tools/3d/plugin_max/nel_patch_paint).
+> After your question, we have decided to detach the painter from the
+> "modified" edit patch plugin.
+> 
+
+Thank you, but 'cvs update -d' didn't uncover it.
+
+> I will post a compete "how to deal with landscape" answer soon.
+
+Patiently waiting :-)
+
+--AS
+
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Wed Oct 17 07:23:15 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9H5NEx13464
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:23:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp71.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.71])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17041
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:18:23 +0400
+Message-ID: <000701c156cb$4a3fa780$47ad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: "Nevrax mailing list" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 09:19:20 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="koi8-r"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000
+Subject: [Nel] nel_patch_paint
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+OK, it's there.
+
+--AS
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Thu Oct 18 06:10:50 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash4.flashmail.com [207.173.216.244])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f9I4Ajx20536
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:10:49 +0200 (CEST)
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+  by 0 with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 04:05:56 -0000
+Message-ID: <000301c15789$fc32ac80$11cac80a@tconl.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:58:05 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1575F.2E533840"
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+Subject: [Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1575F.2E533840
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+--------------------Configuration: admin - Win32 =
+Release--------------------
+Compiling...
+interf_gtk.cpp
+C:\Vermund\code\nel\tools\net\admin\interf_gtk.cpp(32) : fatal error =
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'gtk/gtk.h': No such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+admin.exe - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+I've been looking around and can't seem to find any reference to this =
+file... nothing on the CVS, nothing in the mailing list archives, and =
+nothing in the documentation...
+
+Anyone know why I might be missing this file?  I pulled the complete =
+code down from the CVS just a few days ago... is it another external =
+that I need like freetype or STLport?
+
+Thanks,
+Jared Mark
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1575F.2E533840
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: admin - Win32=20
+Release--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>interf_gtk.cpp<BR>C:\Vermu=
+nd\code\nel\tools\net\admin\interf_gtk.cpp(32)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'gtk/gtk.h': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>admin.exe - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I've been looking around and can't seem to find any =
+reference=20
+to this file... nothing on the CVS, nothing in the mailing list =
+archives, and=20
+nothing in the documentation...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Anyone know why I might be missing this file?&nbsp; =
+I pulled=20
+the complete code down from the CVS just a few days ago... is it another =
+
+external that I need like freetype or STLport?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1575F.2E533840--
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Thu Oct 18 07:09:03 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9I592x20820
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:09:03 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from a_s@softhome.net)
+Received: from breaker (ppp53.SCI.Smolensk.RU [213.59.173.53])
+	by sci.smolensk.ru (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA30343
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:03:43 +0400
+Message-ID: <001001c15792$66229a30$35ad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000301c15789$fc32ac80$11cac80a@tconl.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?
+Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:04:37 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello EagleEye,
+
+You may find GTK+ for win32 here:
+
+http://user.sgic.fi/~tml/gimp/win32/downloads.html
+
+--AS
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: EagleEye
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 7:58 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?
+
+
+--------------------Configuration: admin - Win32 Release--------------------
+Compiling...
+interf_gtk.cpp
+C:\Vermund\code\nel\tools\net\admin\interf_gtk.cpp(32) : fatal error C1083:
+Cannot open include file: 'gtk/gtk.h': No such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+admin.exe - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+I've been looking around and can't seem to find any reference to this
+file... nothing on the CVS, nothing in the mailing list archives, and
+nothing in the documentation...
+
+Anyone know why I might be missing this file?  I pulled the complete code
+down from the CVS just a few days ago... is it another external that I need
+like freetype or STLport?
+
+Thanks,
+Jared Mark
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Oct 18 11:31:44 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9I9Vhx22078
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:31:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9I9Qu736785
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:26:56 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <004e01c157b7$07c99e50$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000301c15789$fc32ac80$11cac80a@tconl.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?
+Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:26:56 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+In fact, the project "admin" is not a service, it's the administration
+client used to manage a shard.
+You don't have to compile it and run it to have a functional shard. It's
+only an option that we'll use in the exploitation stage.
+If you want to compile the admin client, you have to download and install
+GTK+:
+http://user.sgic.fi/~tml/gimp/win32/downloads.html
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:58 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?
+
+
+--------------------Configuration: admin - Win32 Release--------------------
+Compiling...
+interf_gtk.cpp
+C:\Vermund\code\nel\tools\net\admin\interf_gtk.cpp(32) : fatal error C1083:
+Cannot open include file: 'gtk/gtk.h': No such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+admin.exe - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+I've been looking around and can't seem to find any reference to this
+file... nothing on the CVS, nothing in the mailing list archives, and
+nothing in the documentation...
+
+Anyone know why I might be missing this file?  I pulled the complete code
+down from the CVS just a few days ago... is it another external that I need
+like freetype or STLport?
+
+Thanks,
+Jared Mark
+
+
+
+From alexandrecourbot@linuxgames.com Thu Oct 18 14:51:49 2001
+Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9ICplU00980
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:51:49 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from alexandrecourbot@linuxgames.com)
+Received: from lille-1-a7-49-138.dial.proxad.net (lille-1-a7-49-138.dial.proxad.net [213.228.49.138])
+	by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8A9AB2D4
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 14:46:53 +0200 (CEST)
+From: Alexandre Courbot <alexandrecourbot@linuxgames.com>
+To: Nel Mailing List <nel@nevrax.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/0.15 (Preview Release)
+Date: 18 Oct 2001 14:56:29 +0200
+Message-Id: <1003409791.613.221.camel@progeny>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Subject: [Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello NeL staff,
+
+I've tried to compile the NeL CVS tree and got the following error:
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include -I../../../../src
+-I/usr/include/stlport -O3 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/driver_opengl.pp -c driver_opengl.cpp
+-fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/driver_opengl.lo
+In file included from driver_opengl.h:51,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:48:
+../../../../src/3d/driver.h:633: parse error before `0L'
+../../../../src/3d/driver.h:648: missing ';' before right brace
+../../../../src/3d/driver.h:662: virtual outside class declaration
+<followed by lots of errors>
+
+The part that caused this error is:
+
+nel/src/3d/driver.h:
+
+	enum TMatrix
+	{ 
+line 633:	None=0,
+		ModelView,
+		Projection,
+		Texture,
+		Color,
+
+The problem come from the 'None' word. I don't know exactly why (maybe
+it has been #defined to 0L somewhere?) but the compilation succeed when
+I changed 'None' to something else. As this part of the code is the same
+since quite a few time and probably works for you, I suspect something
+in the include files of my libs. Here's my configuration:
+
+-libxml 2.4.5
+-libstlport 4.1beta6
+-xfree 4.1.0
+-python 1.5.2
+-openAL 0.2001061600
+-freetype2 1.3.1
+-gcc 2.95.4
+
+It's probably that the 'None' keyword is defined somewhere in my include
+files. Unfortunately I don't exactly know how I could find out where it
+is defined, but if someone give me the guidelines, I'd be glad to do.
+
+By the way, is there a data package that is suitable for testing with
+the CVS code? I'd be glad to have a look at Snowballs, but unfortunately
+the release versions didn't work with me, and I guess that they are now
+obsolete.
+
+Anyway, keep on the good work! ;)
+Alex.
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Oct 18 15:07:12 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9ID7CU01091
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:07:12 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9ID2PA02089
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:02:25 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005b01c157d5$25373470$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <1003409791.613.221.camel@progeny>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h
+Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:02:30 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+We will fixe it. It should be on the cvs after the night update.
+Thanks for the report.
+
+Regards,
+Cyril.
+
+> c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include -I../../../../src
+> -I/usr/include/stlport -O3 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT
+> -I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/driver_opengl.pp -c driver_opengl.cpp
+> -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/driver_opengl.lo
+> In file included from driver_opengl.h:51,
+>                  from driver_opengl.cpp:48:
+> ../../../../src/3d/driver.h:633: parse error before `0L'
+> ../../../../src/3d/driver.h:648: missing ';' before right brace
+> ../../../../src/3d/driver.h:662: virtual outside class declaration
+> <followed by lots of errors>
+
+
+
+From alexandrecourbot@linuxgames.com Fri Oct 19 14:41:14 2001
+Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9JCfDU08420
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 14:41:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from alexandrecourbot@linuxgames.com)
+Received: from lille-1-a7-49-221.dial.proxad.net (lille-1-a7-49-221.dial.proxad.net [213.228.49.221])
+	by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD30AB14C
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 14:36:25 +0200 (CEST)
+From: Alexandre Courbot <alexandrecourbot@linuxgames.com>
+To: Nel Mailing List <nel@nevrax.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/0.15 (Preview Release)
+Date: 19 Oct 2001 14:46:04 +0200
+Message-Id: <1003495566.532.11.camel@progeny>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Subject: [Nel] Compilation issues
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello, I've found some others issues with compiling the current NeL CVS.
+
+1st in code/nel/src/3d/vertex_buffer.cpp, the lines 694 and 715 caused
+compilation errors because the 'i' variable was out of score. Replacing
+'for(i=0' by 'for(uint i=0' solves the problem.
+
+The second comes from
+code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_vertex.cpp. Here's the
+compilation log:
+
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp: In method `bool
+NL3D::CVertexBufferHardGL::init(NL3D::CDriverGL *, short unsigned int,
+const uint8 *, unsigned int, NL3D::IDriver::TVBHardType)':
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp:801: implicit declaration of function `int
+NL3D::glGenFencesNV(...)'
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp: In method
+`NL3D::CVertexBufferHardGL::~CVertexBufferHardGL()':
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp:816: implicit declaration of function `int
+NL3D::glDeleteFencesNV(...)'
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp: In method `void
+NL3D::CVertexBufferHardGL::setFence()':
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp:885: implicit declaration of function `int
+NL3D::glSetFenceNV(...)'
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp: In method `void
+NL3D::CVertexBufferHardGL::finishFence()':
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp:896: implicit declaration of function `int
+NL3D::glFinishFenceNV(...)'
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp: In method `void
+NL3D::CDriverGL::setupGlArrays(NL3D::CVertexBufferInfo &,
+NL3D::CVBDrvInfosGL *, bool, bool)':
+driver_opengl_vertex.cpp:1393: implicit declaration of function `int
+NL3D::glVertexAttribPointerNV(...)'
+
+I don't know why, but it looks like these GL functions doesn't exist on
+my system. I don't know OpenGL much so I can't be of great help here -
+but I'm sure I'm using a recent Mesa (the one that is merged with XFree
+4.1.0).
+
+See you,
+Alex.
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Oct 19 15:41:51 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9JDfoU08727
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:41:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9JDb2A15783
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:37:03 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001f01c158a3$262b25c0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <1003495566.532.11.camel@progeny>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation issues
+Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:37:08 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Yes your are right, thoses extensions doesn't exist in the latest mesa
+release.
+We define those functions ourself in the file named
+driver_opengl_extension_def.h.
+It looks like that the definition is not working for linux. We are on it.
+Thanks for the reaport.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+> I don't know why, but it looks like these GL functions doesn't exist on
+> my system. I don't know OpenGL much so I can't be of great help here -
+> but I'm sure I'm using a recent Mesa (the one that is merged with XFree
+> 4.1.0).
+
+
+
+
+From follwerk@mailbox.informatik.uni-bonn.de Fri Oct 19 16:35:48 2001
+Received: from postfix.informatik.uni-bonn.de (postfix.informatik.uni-bonn.de [131.220.131.28])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9JEZiU09094
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:35:48 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from follwerk@mailbox.informatik.uni-bonn.de)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:30:56 +0200 (MEST)
+	(envelope-from follwerk@mailbox.informatik.uni-bonn.de)
+	(envelope-to nel@nevrax.org) (1)
+	(internal use: ta=1, tu=1, te=0, am=-, au=NULL)
+Message-ID: <3BD03970.A47DE717@mailbox.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
+Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:32:16 +0200
+From: Mike Follwerk <follwerk@mailbox.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.4-4GB-SMP i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation issues
+References: <1003495566.532.11.camel@progeny>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Alexandre Courbot wrote:
+
+> driver_opengl_vertex.cpp: In method `bool
+> NL3D::CVertexBufferHardGL::init(NL3D::CDriverGL *, short unsigned int,
+[...]
+> I don't know why, but it looks like these GL functions doesn't exist on
+> my system. I don't know OpenGL much so I can't be of great help here -
+> but I'm sure I'm using a recent Mesa (the one that is merged with XFree
+> 4.1.0).
+
+this is a problem I also ran into. I found these functions defined in
+the header files that come with the NVidia XFree 4.x drivers. The NVidia
+GL header files are by default (if you use the RPMs under Linux)
+installed somewhere under /usr/doc as to not interfere with your normal
+headers. Just take a look into the file list of the RPM. The NVidia GL
+library also contains the neccessary symbols.
+
+So, are these functions NVidia-specific?
+
+CYa,
+   Mike
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Oct 19 17:56:00 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9JFtvU09557
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+Message-ID: <001301c158b5$df8ed810$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <1003495566.532.11.camel@progeny> <3BD03970.A47DE717@mailbox.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation issues
+Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:51:10 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+
+> So, are these functions NVidia-specific?
+
+Yes they are. The glext.h available on the SGI site should always have the
+last constructor extensions.
+But it doesn't. So we have a special file in which we add the missing onces.
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Oct 19 20:40:02 2001
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+Message-ID: <002d01c158cc$ced087f0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:35:20 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Subject: [Nel] Landscape generation pipeline
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi there,
+
+Here is a small guideline to generate landscape for NeL:
+
+The landscape is done in 2 steps:
+
+First step : artist creation of landscape data (textures and geometry)
+Second step : offline processing of final data
+
+1) ----- Creation process
+
+a)  Draw some tiles
+
+Tiles are textures that will be applied on the landscape. Tiles size can be
+128x128 or 256x256.
+A 128x128 tile will be used to map a 2x2 meter aera.
+They are 24bits TGA files.
+Tiles are grouped by tileset. Contraints for tiles in the same tileset:
+-> The up and down pixel border of tiles must be the same.
+-> The left and right pixel border of tiles must be the same.
+
+You will need some 8 bits TGA textures to make smooth transitions between
+tileset. This special "transition tiles"
+are 128x128. To complete all possible transitions you need 48 alpha
+textures. In fact, only 12 are needed
+with some rotations.
+
+You will need displacement tiles too. Displacement tiles are like bump maps.
+They are 8 bits TGA file of 32x32 pixels.
+Each tileset can have 16 differents displacement tiles.
+
+To know more about how to draw your texture tiles and alpha tiles, check the
+following document:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/download/examples/tile_bank.doc (330 ko)
+
+b) Build a tilebank file
+
+The tilebank file is edited with tile_edit.exe. The project is
+cvs/code/nel/tools/3d/tile_edit
+
+- You will setup your tilesets by listing your bitmaps. Note that pixel
+checks are made at this step to check constraints describle above.
+- You have to list your transition textures. There is a button "batch load"
+to load all your transition tiles in one time if the file name
+is normalized ( alpha_trans_00.tga alpha_trans_01.tga where the number
+follow the convention gived in tile_bank.doc).
+- You have to list your displacement tiles too.
+- You have to define one or several land. A land is a set of tileset.
+
+Here is snowballs's tilebank with its textures (i have added some bumpy
+displacement map) :
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/download/examples/tilebank.zip (3 Mo)
+
+Don't forget to change the absolute path of the bank in tile_edit. Or you
+will not be able to see the texture in the tool.
+
+At the question  "What the tile set's children are for ?" the answer is :
+nothing, it is obsolete :)
+
+c) Build the zones geometry
+
+Ok, now we have to build some geometry for our landscape.
+
+As you probably know, NeL landscape is based on Bezier quad patches.
+Bezier patches are more flexable than height field. you can make creases,
+concave elevations, holes etc..
+Bezier patches are edited in 3dsmax using editpatch.
+The landscape is divided in zones. A zone is an area of 160x160 meters. Each
+zone is a patch mesh of 3dsmax.
+The vertices at the boundary of the zone must be snapped. They will be
+welded in the post process.
+
+The zone name is like: 3_aa.zone
+The name is composed of a numeric coordiante (NUM = 3) and a alpha one
+(ALPHA = aa = 0)
+The upper left corner of the zone coordinate is :
+X = 160 * ALPHA
+Y = 160 * - NUM
+
+For examples, a snowball zone is called 4_ac.zone, it means its upper left
+coordinates are ( 320, -480 )
+
+d) Paint the zone with tiles
+
+A patch is composed 16x16 tiles. Tiles are our 128x128 textures. A 256x256
+textures is 2x2 tiles.
+
+Once you have modeled your zones, you will have to paint it with textures
+and colors.
+
+Before painting, you must set the bank you want to use it in 3dsmax. To do
+so, use the utility plugin
+called "NeL Tile Bank". Choose your bank on your hard disk. (Don't forget to
+set the absolute path
+of the bank in tile_edit). No need to "Setup material". If you do this, the
+plugin will generate a material
+per tile and try to map patches with it. When your bank become big, this
+take a lot of resources.
+
+Now convert your patch mesh using the "NeL convert" modifer. Now your object
+is a NeL patch mesh and
+not a patch mesh. Now add a painter modifier. You can paint.
+
+You can paint over several patch meshes by adding a paint modfier over
+several NeL patch meshes.
+
+Now you should see the patch painter in a NeL window. Main commands are:
+
+F1: Tile mode, paint textures
+F2: Color mode, paint vertex color
+F3: Displace mode, paint displace textures
+A: automatic lighting on / off.(to see the displacement, a little slow)
+SPACE: choose your texture, colors or displace to paint.
+
+etc...
+
+See cvs\code\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_patch_paint\user_guide.txt for
+other commands.
+You can configure it by editing the keys.cfg file.
+
+Check some snowballs zones max project:
+http://www.nevrax.org/download/examples/snowballs_zones.zip (1 Mo)
+
+Note that to do that kind of work, you need a modifier you don't have : edit
+patch for NeL patch meshes. The reason
+is it is based on Discreet source code. With nomal edit patch you can
+subdivide patches, extrude, bievel etc.. You can't for example, change the
+number of tiles on a patch.
+
+e) Performance issues
+
+Some notes about performances:
+
+- You can make a lot of zone. I can't tell you the zone count for our
+project, but it is high :)
+- 700 128x128 textures is a good count. (Use DXTC5 !)
+- 50 patches of 16x16 tiles per zone is the max peek you should use.
+Equivalent to 200 patches of 8x8 tiles.
+- A tile should be 2x2 meters on the ground. It give you 1.5 centimeter
+pixel ratio. Double than quake 3 walls but on a landscape ! So with the
+given patch count, you have twice the surface of the zone to model it.
+
+Now your zones are modeled, painted, colored and displaced. Time for
+processing.
+
+1) ----- Offline process--
+
+The offline processing project is in cvs in
+
+cvs/code/nel/tools/3d/landscape_builder
+
+How to build the NeL landscape.
+
+a) What does mean 'Build the NeL lanscape' ?
+
+Once you have created your tile bank and your landscape zones, you will need
+to preprocess your zone
+in order to:
+
+- Weld the boundary vertices of the zones
+- Light the zones with shadows casted by the landscape and the static
+objects (like trees, buildings..)
+
+b) Requirement
+
+Before building the landscape you must have:
+
+- Installed Cygwin tools and set the PATH properly. (Under windows)
+- Compilated some binaries and putted them in the "bin/" folder.
+(zone_dependencies.exe, zone_welder.exe, zone_lighter.exe. zone_smoother.exe
+is not use anymore)
+
+c) Data exportation
+
+You have to export those data:
+
+- The .zone files in the "zone_exported/" folder. (NeL landscape zone files
+exported from 3dsmax)
+- The .bank file in the "bank/" folder. (NeL bank edited with tileedit)
+- The .ig files (named like the zone) in the folder "ig/". (NeL instance
+group file exported from max)
+- The .shape files (for trees, building or every things that cast shadows on
+the landscape) in the folder "shaped/"
+- The .tga files (for the shapes used for alpha blending and for displace
+tiles) in the folder "maps/"
+
+d) Configure
+
+Configure the cfg/properties.cfg file.
+
+e) Computing
+
+* 0_clean_all.bat - clean all the directories.
+
+* 1_build_dependencies.bat - build dependencies files. Each zone will have a
+dependency file in which is listed the zone that cast shadow on it. ->
+generate the .depend file in the folder zone_depend/
+
+* 2_weld.bat - Weld the zones. -> generates the .zonew files in the folder
+zone_welded/
+
+* 3_light.bat - Light the zones. -> generates the .zonel files in the folder
+zone_lighted/
+
+All the building process in incremental, ie, if you modify only ONE .zone
+file, the weld pass will modify the zonew file and each neighbors of this
+zone. The light pass will relight only the .zonew modified files.
+
+The .zonel files are the final zone files. They are loaded by the engine.
+(see snowballs 2 source code for detail).
+
+f) farbank building
+
+You will need to compute a farbank. The farbank is the bank used to map the
+patches when they are far.
+This bank is computed with the .bank file and the tiles texture. see the
+project:
+cvs/code/nel/tools/3d/build_far_bank
+
+---
+
+I hope this first document will help you. All the Nevrax team is ready to
+reply to your questions and comments.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+---
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Fri Oct 19 22:15:44 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash2.flashmail.com [207.173.216.241])
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+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002d01c158cc$ced087f0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscape generation pipeline
+Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:07:18 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> The zone name is like: 3_aa.zone
+> The name is composed of a numeric coordiante (NUM = 3) and a alpha one
+> (ALPHA = aa = 0)
+> The upper left corner of the zone coordinate is :
+> X = 160 * ALPHA
+> Y = 160 * - NUM
+>
+> For examples, a snowball zone is called 4_ac.zone, it means its upper left
+> coordinates are ( 320, -480 )
+
+By your example, aa = 0, so ab = 1?  ac = 2 then... so that makes sense...
+but where does it end?  az?  Or is it more like hex, where it goes to af? :)
+Does the progression go like:
+
+aa = 0 to az = 25,
+ba = 26... bz = 51,
+ca... etc
+
+all the way to zz, which would be a total possible number of combinations of
+26^2?
+
+The math is wrong on the example too... 160 * -4 = -640, not -480... or am I
+missing something there?
+
+
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Fri Oct 19 22:22:36 2001
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+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002d01c158cc$ced087f0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscape generation pipeline
+Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:13:13 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+
+> Once you have created your tile bank and your landscape zones, you will
+need
+> to preprocess your zone
+> in order to:
+>
+> - Weld the boundary vertices of the zones
+> - Light the zones with shadows casted by the landscape and the static
+> objects (like trees, buildings..)
+
+What if I want to make trees in my world dynamic objects?  If I just make
+the landscape and preprocess it without trees, but add the trees later as
+dynamic objects, they'll still have the shadows and stuff done right,
+correct?  Granted, more processing required on the client (I would guess),
+but it would allow for some key elements of my game (the actual cutting down
+of trees and dynamic structure building for example).
+
+
+
+
+From a_s@softhome.net Sat Oct 20 22:35:20 2001
+Received: from sci.smolensk.ru (Sci.Smolensk.RU [213.59.172.3])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9KKZJU20208
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:30:17 +0400
+Message-ID: <001f01c159a6$37c36500$53ad3bd5@breaker>
+From: "Anatoly Sennov" <a_s@softhome.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <002d01c158cc$ced087f0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscape generation pipeline
+Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 00:31:15 +0400
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Cyril,
+
+> 
+> I hope this first document will help you. All the Nevrax team is ready to
+> reply to your questions and comments.
+> 
+
+Big thanks, I'll try to catch up :-)
+
+--AS
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Mon Oct 22 22:29:03 2001
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9MKT2U34233
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+Message-ID: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com>
+Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:25:31 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
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+To: Nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Subject: [Nel] Stability for at least a test product?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+How do things look at the moment for a stable working application? 
+Perhaps someone could set up a simple virtual chat world, something
+where people could at least walk around a open field and perform basic
+interactions?  It would be nice to get some real deminstrations of this
+available for the public to see.
+
+  Plus I'm too lazy to do it myself :-/
+
+  Tony
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Mon Oct 22 22:42:15 2001
+Received: from fep21-svc.tin.it (mta21-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.74])
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+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:37:18 +0200
+Message-ID: <00d401c15b39$30344540$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:36:11 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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+Subject: [Nel] New error :)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01C15B49.F356B250
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+--------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Compiling...
+stdafx.cpp
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'Address'
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error =
+C2501: 'Address' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error =
+C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : undeclared identifier
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error =
+C2057: expected constant expression
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(625) : error =
+C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' has an illegal zero-sized array
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+nelexport.dlu - 6 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+Any idea what could cause this? I tried removing the Platform SDK =
+includes.. the only difference is that the error is that :
+
+
+--------------------Configuration: nel_mesh_lib - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Compiling...
+stdafx.cpp
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(295) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(352) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(383) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(431) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(432) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(433) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(434) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(435) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(519) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(564) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(616) : error =
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'Address'
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(616) : error =
+C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(616) : error =
+C2501: 'Address' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(617) : error =
+C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : undeclared identifier
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(617) : error =
+C2057: expected constant expression
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(617) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(618) : error =
+C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' has an illegal zero-sized array
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(631) : =
+warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in =
+struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(29) : warning =
+C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(56) : warning =
+C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(57) : warning =
+C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in struct/union
+C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(89) : warning =
+C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in struct/union
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+nelexport.dlu - 6 error(s), 16 warning(s)
+
+
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01C15B49.F356B250
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>stdafx.cpp<BR>C:\Prog=
+rammi\Microsoft=20
+Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error C2146: syntax error : =
+missing ';'=20
+before identifier 'Address'<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform=20
+SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) : error C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing =
+storage-class or=20
+type specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform =
+SDK\include\bhtypes.h(623) :=20
+error C2501: 'Address' : missing storage-class or type=20
+specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) =
+: error=20
+C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : undeclared identifier<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft =
+
+Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(624) : error C2057: expected constant=20
+expression<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Platform SDK\include\bhtypes.h(625) =
+: error=20
+C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' has an illegal zero-sized array<BR>Error =
+executing=20
+cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nelexport.dlu - 6 error(s), 0=20
+warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any idea what could cause this? I tried =
+removing=20
+the Platform SDK includes.. the only difference is that the error is =
+that=20
+:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+nel_mesh_lib -=20
+Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>stdafx.cpp<BR>C:\Prog=
+rammi\Microsoft=20
+Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(295) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension=20
+used : zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(352) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(383) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(431) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(432) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(433) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(434) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(435) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(519) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(564) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(616) : error C2146: syntax error : missing =
+';'=20
+before identifier 'Address'<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(616) : error C2501: 'ADDRESS' : missing=20
+storage-class or type specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(616) : error C2501: 'Address' : missing=20
+storage-class or type specifiers<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(617) : error C2065: 'MAX_NAME_SIZE' : =
+undeclared=20
+identifier<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual =
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(617) :=20
+error C2057: expected constant expression<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft =
+Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(617) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(618) : error C2229: struct '_ADDRESSINFO' =
+has an=20
+illegal zero-sized array<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\bhtypes.h(631) : warning C4200: nonstandard =
+extension used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(29) : warning C4200: nonstandard extension =
+used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(56) : warning C4200: nonstandard extension =
+used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(57) : warning C4200: nonstandard extension =
+used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>C:\Programmi\Microsoft Visual=20
+Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\frame.h(89) : warning C4200: nonstandard extension =
+used :=20
+zero-sized array in struct/union<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nelexport.dlu - 6 error(s), 16=20
+warning(s)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01C15B49.F356B250--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Oct 23 15:06:50 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9ND6oU39439
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:06:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9ND20A52027
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:02:00 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002401c15bc2$e6eb06f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Stability for at least a test product?
+Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:01:59 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello tony,
+
+You know, Snowballs is exactly what you want, it's a virtual chat in a snow
+world where you can walk and throw snowballs and so on.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Tony Hoyt" <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 10:25 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Stability for at least a test product?
+
+
+> How do things look at the moment for a stable working application?
+> Perhaps someone could set up a simple virtual chat world, something
+> where people could at least walk around a open field and perform basic
+> interactions?  It would be nice to get some real deminstrations of this
+> available for the public to see.
+>
+>   Plus I'm too lazy to do it myself :-/
+>
+>   Tony
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Oct 23 18:10:54 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9NGArU40335
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:10:53 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4DE92
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:06:05 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3BD59568.2C54A7E4@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:06:00 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+I'm running a Debian and have libxml2 properly installed. However the
+configure script fails :
+
+checking for xml2-config... /usr/bin/xml2-config
+checking for libxml - version >= 2.0.0... no
+*** Could not run libxml test program, checking why...
+*** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log for the
+*** exact error that occured. This usually means LIBXML was incorrectly installed
+*** or that you have moved LIBXML since it was installed. In the latter case, you
+*** may want to edit the xml2-config script: /usr/bin/xml2-config
+configure: error: libxml2 must be installed.
+
+$ xml2-config  --version
+2.4.6
+
+It seems the test macro doesn't use  `xml2-config --cflags` : on Debian it is
+`/usr/include/libxml2` (the reason being libxml1 is in the default /usr/include for
+Gnome 1.4's sake). I'm not an autoconf guru, so... :)
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Oct 24 11:02:08 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9O926U45622
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:02:06 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9O8vDA61029
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:57:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9O8v5f19920
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:57:05 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:57:05 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2
+Message-ID: <20011024105705.A19893@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BD59568.2C54A7E4@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BD59568.2C54A7E4@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 06:06:00PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Vincent,
+
+There is a problem with the libxml 2 macro for autoconf so the test
+program fail (at least on Debian :-) to overide this test you have to
+run the configure script with the '--disable-xmltest' option.
+
+The libxml informations (cflags and libs options) will be set correctly.
+
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+>
+> I'm running a Debian and have libxml2 properly installed. However the
+> configure script fails :
+> 
+> checking for xml2-config... /usr/bin/xml2-config
+> checking for libxml - version >= 2.0.0... no
+> *** Could not run libxml test program, checking why...
+> *** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log for the
+> *** exact error that occured. This usually means LIBXML was incorrectly installed
+> *** or that you have moved LIBXML since it was installed. In the latter case, you
+> *** may want to edit the xml2-config script: /usr/bin/xml2-config
+> configure: error: libxml2 must be installed.
+> [...]
+
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Wed Oct 24 14:28:33 2001
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9OCSWU46702
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:28:32 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA857473
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:23:40 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com>
+Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:24:59 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Last Night I tried to build the Snowballs client and ran into a wall
+trying to build Nel.
+
+  I built STLport-4.5 in C:\STLport-4.5.  And FreeType 2 in
+C:\FreeType.  And then was ready to build Nel 3D only at this point.
+
+  Now, What happened appeared to be an issue with redeclirations of
+various STL types.  So I think the problem may be the Include and
+Library directory listings for Visual Studio.  It was all durring the
+compileing phase, right from the start.  Could someone go over the
+INSTALL directions for nel because some of it does not make sence.  For
+example
+
+quote -------------------------
+      Setup Visual C++ to find the NeL include and library files :
+
+         - Add the NEL include directory to the "Library Files"
+category.
+           ex: D:/test/code/nel/include
+
+         - Add the STLPort library directory to the "Library Files"
+category.
+           ex: D:/test/code/nel/lib
+
+/quote -------------------------
+
+I understand that D:/test/code/ is the root directory for my nel files,
+which I grabed from the CVS just last night, but still those lines make
+little sence.  Could someone please go through the installation again to
+make sure that it's proper and that INSTALL file is correct. Thanks
+
+  Tony
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Oct 24 15:43:56 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9ODhtU47067
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:43:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9ODd4A65696
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:39:04 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006c01c15c91$3f3e37e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com>
+Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:39:04 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Deprecated services
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi there,
+
+We made few clean up in services directory (nelns). pac_service, log_service
+and time_service are removed from the CVS because they are deprecated.
+You don't need them to run a shard anymore.
+The universal time system was removed because it was too much game dev
+dependant. We use NTP to sync our server and if a service need the time, it
+uses CTime class in misc module.
+If you want a specific game time management, you have to create your own
+class.
+So now a service starts, it doesn't connect to time_service anymore.
+The file unitime.cpp is always available in the net module but the class was
+renamed from CUniTime to _CUniTime and is deprecated so don't use it. We
+planned to remove it in less than few month.
+
+Regards,
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Oct 24 18:56:43 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9OGugU48098
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:56:42 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9OGpgg75609
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:51:42 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:51:42 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+Message-ID: <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com>; from ahoyt@packetport.com on Wed, Oct 24, 2001 at 08:24:59AM -0400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Tony,
+
+Tony Hoyt wrote:
+> 
+>   Now, What happened appeared to be an issue with redeclirations of
+> various STL types.  So I think the problem may be the Include and
+> Library directory listings for Visual Studio.  It was all durring the
+> compileing phase, right from the start.  Could someone go over the
+> INSTALL directions for nel because some of it does not make sence.  For
+> example
+
+In Visual, you heve to set up that option in the menu
+"Tools->Options->Directories".
+
+There you will see differents categories "Include Files", "Library Files",
+ etc ...  and a list of directories for each category.
+
+You have to make sure that the STLPorts include directory is BEFORE the
+visual include directory in the "Include Files" directory list.
+
+Otherwise there is an other mistake in that file:
+
+   You have to add the NeL src directory in the "Include Files"
+   directory list :
+
+      ex: D:/test/code/nel/src
+
+
+> quote -------------------------
+>       Setup Visual C++ to find the NeL include and library files :
+>
+>          - Add the NEL include directory to the "Library Files"
+> category.
+
+Oops there is a mistake is not the "Library Files" category but the
+"Include  Files" category ...
+
+>            ex: D:/test/code/nel/include
+> 
+>          - Add the STLPort library directory to the "Library Files"
+> category.
+
+... and here, that's not "the STLPort library directory" but 
+"NeLlibrary directory"
+
+> 
+> I understand that D:/test/code/ is the root directory for my nel files,
+> which I grabed from the CVS just last night, but still those lines make
+> little sence.  Could someone please go through the installation again to
+> make sure that it's proper and that INSTALL file is correct. Thanks
+
+I will fix the INSTALL file, sorry about that.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Oct 25 00:18:44 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9OMIiU49567
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:18:44 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EB4A1
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:13:56 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3BD73D1A.DCB8FA55@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 00:13:46 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport
+References: <3BD59568.2C54A7E4@zerodeux.net> <20011024105705.A19893@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> 
+> There is a problem with the libxml 2 macro for autoconf so the test
+> program fail (at least on Debian :-) to overide this test you have to
+> run the configure script with the '--disable-xmltest' option.
+
+Thanx, it works. Now I have a pb with both STLport 4.5 (release) and
+STLport-0824 (beta) :
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../src -I/usr/include/freetype2
+-I/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/stlport -g -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include
+-Wp,-MD,.deps/skeleton_weight.pp -c skeleton_weight.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/skeleton_weight.lo
+/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/stlport/stl/type_traits.h: In function `struct
+_STL::_OKToMemCpy<char,char> _STL::_IsOKToMemCpy<char, char>(char *, char *)':
+/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/stlport/stl/type_traits.h:343: template instantiation depth
+exceeds maximum of 17
+/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/stlport/stl/type_traits.h:343:  (use -ftemplate-depth-NN to
+increase the maximum)
+/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/stlport/stl/type_traits.h:343:   instantiating
+`_STL::_OKToMemCpy<char,char>'
+/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/stlport/stl/type_traits.h:343:   instantiated from
+`_STL::_IsOKToMemCpy<char, char>(char *, char *)'
+
+There's a good advice in this error, so I ran :
+
+CXXFLAGS=-ftemplate-depth-24 ./configure ; make
+
+And it did the job. Maybe this should be set as a default ? BTW, this feature
+is not documented in 'man g++'. I'm using g++ 2.95.4.
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Oct 25 03:32:26 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9P1WPU50944
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:32:25 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP
+	id 05F181742; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:27:38 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3BD76A7F.568192F4@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:27:27 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling results
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Yes, it compiled :). However you could be horrified or impressed by the
+following figures depending on your profile :
+
+Host  : 2x P3-800
+OS    : Linux 2.4.12 SMP
+comp. : gcc 2.95.4
+Module: NeL
+Test  :
+  CXXFLAGS=-ftemplate-depth-24 ./configure --enable-sound --enable-ai [+paths]
+  MAKE='make -j3' make
+Time:
+  real    47m56.997s
+  user    81m10.710s
+  sys     4m13.870s
+
+Note: I coulnd't compile the debug version because I 'only' had 2,5 GB free
+on my partition ...
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Oct 25 08:51:38 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it ([62.110.27.80])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f9P6pbU52533
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:51:38 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 30303 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 06:36:06 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 06:36:06 -0000
+Message-ID: <012e01c15d20$d5310220$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BD76A7F.568192F4@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux compiling results
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:46:53 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+It's not just you having problem with space.. I am around that same size
+under Windows.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 3:27 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling results
+
+
+> Yes, it compiled :). However you could be horrified or impressed by the
+> following figures depending on your profile :
+>
+> Host  : 2x P3-800
+> OS    : Linux 2.4.12 SMP
+> comp. : gcc 2.95.4
+> Module: NeL
+> Test  :
+>   CXXFLAGS=-ftemplate-depth-24 ./configure --enable-sound --enable-ai
+[+paths]
+>   MAKE='make -j3' make
+> Time:
+>   real    47m56.997s
+>   user    81m10.710s
+>   sys     4m13.870s
+>
+> Note: I coulnd't compile the debug version because I 'only' had 2,5 GB
+free
+> on my partition ...
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Oct 25 13:56:42 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9PBueU54328
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:56:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73EE1D5E
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:51:44 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3BD7FCCE.17738D9F@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:51:42 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling again
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At least you have an annoying beta-tester in this area ! :)
+This time I come with the pb and the fix :
+
+src/ai/logic/fsm_script.cpp:7
+src/ai/logic/fsm_seq_script.cpp:6
+src/ai/logic/operator_script.cpp:5
+src/ai/agent_init.cpp:56
+src/ai/static_def_init.cpp:35
+
+#include "nel/ai/agent/gd_agent_script.h"
+
+... works better as :
+
+#include "nel/ai/agent/agent_script.h"
+
+(code taken from your public CVS)
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Thu Oct 25 14:33:45 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9PCXiU54634
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:33:45 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA685813
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:28:51 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com>
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:30:11 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com> <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+ boundary="------------A7CFE62A83B06D8BD71DDE84"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+--------------A7CFE62A83B06D8BD71DDE84
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Well I knew how to update my include and library paths so that they
+included the desired directories in question BUT, that didn't seem to
+help at all.  Here is a listing of my include and library directories
+for your review.
+
+Include DIRS
+C:\STLPORT-4.5\STLPORT
+c:\FREETYPE-2.0.5\INCLUDE
+f:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\SRC
+F:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE
+c:\apps\DX_sdk\include
+C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\INCLUDE
+C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\MFC\INCLUDE
+C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\ATL\INCLUDE
+
+Libary DIRS
+c:\STLPORT-4.5\LIB
+c:\FREETYPE-2.0.5\OBJS
+F:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\LIB
+c:\apps\DX_sdk\lib
+C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\LIB
+C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\MFC\LIB
+
+
+And attached to this document is a tar.gz of the errors I recieve with
+Visual Studio 6.0 with SP5 installed.  Why is the errors file a tar.gz
+you ask?  It's just a text file.. that's 257K big.  :-/  tar.gz makes it
+3K.  So with that.  Let me know what you guys come up with.  I'll talk
+to you later.
+
+  Tony
+
+p.s. DX_sdk is my directX 8.0 SDK installation.
+--------------A7CFE62A83B06D8BD71DDE84
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+--------------A7CFE62A83B06D8BD71DDE84--
+
+
+From sorn@dsl.upc.es Thu Oct 25 14:42:57 2001
+Received: from dsl.upc.es (dsl.upc.es [147.83.61.61])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9PCgtU54914
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:42:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from sorn@dsl.upc.es)
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+	by dsl.upc.es (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -2) with ESMTP id f9PCg493023077
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+	by dsl.upc.es (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -2) with ESMTP id f9PCg3SR023073
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:42:04 +0200
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:42:03 +0200 (CEST)
+From: David Artiga Torrijos <sorn@dsl.upc.es>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+In-Reply-To: <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0110251441200.23066-100000@dsl.upc.es>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi. I have the same problem. These errors doesn't appear if using STL-4.0.
+
+On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Tony Hoyt wrote:
+
+> Well I knew how to update my include and library paths so that they
+> included the desired directories in question BUT, that didn't seem to
+> help at all.  Here is a listing of my include and library directories
+> for your review.
+>
+> Include DIRS
+> C:\STLPORT-4.5\STLPORT
+> c:\FREETYPE-2.0.5\INCLUDE
+> f:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\SRC
+> F:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE
+> c:\apps\DX_sdk\include
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\INCLUDE
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\MFC\INCLUDE
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\ATL\INCLUDE
+>
+> Libary DIRS
+> c:\STLPORT-4.5\LIB
+> c:\FREETYPE-2.0.5\OBJS
+> F:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\LIB
+> c:\apps\DX_sdk\lib
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\LIB
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\MFC\LIB
+>
+>
+> And attached to this document is a tar.gz of the errors I recieve with
+> Visual Studio 6.0 with SP5 installed.  Why is the errors file a tar.gz
+> you ask?  It's just a text file.. that's 257K big.  :-/  tar.gz makes it
+> 3K.  So with that.  Let me know what you guys come up with.  I'll talk
+> to you later.
+>
+>   Tony
+>
+> p.s. DX_sdk is my directX 8.0 SDK installation.
+
+
+From portier@nevrax.com Thu Oct 25 15:01:43 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9PD1eU55062
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:01:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from portier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from Pierrep (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9PCulA76071
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:56:47 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from portier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00c801c15d54$8147b1c0$1301a8c0@Pierrep>
+From: "Pierre Portier" <portier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BD7FCCE.17738D9F@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux compiling again
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:56:46 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Thanks for the fix!
+In fact, gd_agent_script.h and .cpp are obsolete files that have been
+removed
+from the CVS tree.
+So another fix would be to simply remove these include lines.
+It should be fixed on the cvs after the night update.
+
+Regards,
+Pierre Portier
+AI Programmer / Nevrax France
+
+> At least you have an annoying beta-tester in this area ! :)
+> This time I come with the pb and the fix :
+>
+> src/ai/logic/fsm_script.cpp:7
+> src/ai/logic/fsm_seq_script.cpp:6
+> src/ai/logic/operator_script.cpp:5
+> src/ai/agent_init.cpp:56
+> src/ai/static_def_init.cpp:35
+>
+> #include "nel/ai/agent/gd_agent_script.h"
+>
+> ... works better as :
+>
+> #include "nel/ai/agent/agent_script.h"
+>
+> (code taken from your public CVS)
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Oct 25 15:31:42 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9PDVfU55267
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:31:41 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9PDQoA76652
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:26:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00bd01c15d58$b3cf5860$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com> <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com> <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:26:49 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Okay,
+
+In the 4.5 version STLPort decided to rename all there MACRO function so,
+__STL_CALL macro doesn't exist anymore. It was remplaced by _STLP_CALL so, I
+removed  STLPort macro in common.h and now it runs fine with STLPort 4.0 and
+4.5
+You can wait this night for the CVS update or remplace all __STL_CALL in
+common.h by __cdecl
+Thanks for the report.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Tony Hoyt" <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:30 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+
+
+> Well I knew how to update my include and library paths so that they
+> included the desired directories in question BUT, that didn't seem to
+> help at all.  Here is a listing of my include and library directories
+> for your review.
+>
+> Include DIRS
+> C:\STLPORT-4.5\STLPORT
+> c:\FREETYPE-2.0.5\INCLUDE
+> f:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\SRC
+> F:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE
+> c:\apps\DX_sdk\include
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\INCLUDE
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\MFC\INCLUDE
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\ATL\INCLUDE
+>
+> Libary DIRS
+> c:\STLPORT-4.5\LIB
+> c:\FREETYPE-2.0.5\OBJS
+> F:\WORKING\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\LIB
+> c:\apps\DX_sdk\lib
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\LIB
+> C:\Apps\VisualStudio\VC98\MFC\LIB
+>
+>
+> And attached to this document is a tar.gz of the errors I recieve with
+> Visual Studio 6.0 with SP5 installed.  Why is the errors file a tar.gz
+> you ask?  It's just a text file.. that's 257K big.  :-/  tar.gz makes it
+> 3K.  So with that.  Let me know what you guys come up with.  I'll talk
+> to you later.
+>
+>   Tony
+>
+> p.s. DX_sdk is my directX 8.0 SDK installation.
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Thu Oct 25 15:50:34 2001
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9PDoXU55419
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:50:33 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA946548
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3BD817D4.FC28E569@packetport.com>
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:47:00 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com> <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com> <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com> <00bd01c15d58$b3cf5860$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> You can wait this night for the CVS update or remplace all __STL_CALL in
+> common.h by __cdecl
+> Thanks for the report.
+
+  Thank you for the quick responce to fix this. I'm not going to get a
+chance to look at this untill later today (I'm on East Coast USA, EST -5
+GMT) so most likely I'll be able to just grab the lastest updates from
+the CVS and try then.  Hoody hoo!  Now we just have to see how Snowballs
+will run on a tnt2 Ultra. :-/  I hope my P3 800 will keep up.
+
+  Tony
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Oct 25 15:53:22 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9PDrMU55438
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:53:22 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9397EA1
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:48:32 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3BD8182C.FA99D138@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:48:28 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling, ever
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+src/3d/Makefile.am does not compile these sources :
+  animated_morph.cpp
+  heat_haze.cpp
+  init_3d.cpp
+  landscape_def.cpp
+  landscape_face_vector_manager.cpp
+  landscapeig_manager.cpp
+  landscapevb_allocator.cpp
+  landscapevb_info.cpp
+  mesh_morpher.cpp
+  nv_tri_strip_objects.cpp
+  nv_vertex_cache.cpp
+  particle_system_sound_user.cpp
+  quad_effect.cpp
+  quad_grid_clip_cluster.cpp
+  quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp
+  skip_model.cpp
+  stripifier.cpp
+  tess_face_priority_list.cpp
+  vertex_program.cpp
+  zone_corner_smoother.cpp
+  zone_lighter.cpp
+
+Some are really missing since I can't link snowballs2. I actually checked
+the src/3d.dsp for 'SOURCE=', and my list seems complete.
+
+The nvidia stuff does not compile because the code use the ugly 'for (int i=0;
+ ....)' variable scoping. Same error here :
+
+quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp:260: name lookup of `i' changed for new ANSI `for' scoping
+quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp:254:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+
+
+We're getting closer ! ;)
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Fri Oct 26 03:29:12 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9Q1TAU59394
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:29:11 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur ([63.205.226.188])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f9Q0PBs18867
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:25:11 -0700
+Message-Id: <200110260025.f9Q0PBs18867@mail.in-orbit.net>
+Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:26:32 -0700
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Deprecated services
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+10/24/2001 6:39:04 AM, "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+
+>We made few clean up in services directory (nelns). pac_service, log_service
+>and time_service are removed from the CVS because they are deprecated.
+>You don't need them to run a shard anymore.
+>
+
+with a fresh recompile of the nelns and game specific services we first find that all the services want some new variables including XWinParam and SId.  We discovered the syntax of XWinParam and 
+it's friends, and made an educated guess on the others.  Here is a sample of our cfg which I'm guessing is correct:
+
+Rec = "no";
+NSHost = "63.205.226.188";
+NSPort = 50000;
+BasePort = 51000;
+
+XWinParam = 600;
+YWinParam = 0;
+WWinParam = 600;
+HWinParam = 300;
+
+SId = "NS";
+
+At any rate this was enough to dispel the warnings.  When we try to log in with a freshly recompiled client we get as far as choosing a shard before we are informed that there is no frontend service.  
+the frontend service's logs seem to indicate a normal connection.
+
+
+Keep up the great work!
+Michael Warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Fri Oct 26 14:18:42 2001
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QCIfU62412
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:18:42 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA1001663
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:13:48 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3BD953CA.F8961CCD@packetport.com>
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:15:06 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com> <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com> <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com> <00bd01c15d58$b3cf5860$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3BD817D4.FC28E569@packetport.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Oookay, Well I got it to compile! I got it to run!  And then, a couple
+of things happened. 
+
+  One thing was I had to dig around for a copy of a 3d dll. I didn't
+take down the information on the name of things this time like perhaps I
+should have, but basicly it looked like it was looking for a nel 3d dll
+and couldn't find it.  I found it in code/nel/lib and when I (hack)
+copied it into my build directory everything was fine.
+
+  Then it actuall ran! (After I found client.cfg too) But started asking
+for data files... And in the end, the 0.2 data files didn't work with
+it, so now i have to wonder, has ANYONE beyond the Nel team actually
+have a working version of Snowballs?  I feel like i"m the first one
+building this thing, But I can't be.  Well in any case, let me know
+where I can get the latest data for Snowballs.  Thanks.
+
+  Tony
+
+p.s. I did end up haveing to do the following things to get the project
+compiled.
+
+  1) libXML is required.
+  2) Needed glext.h
+  3) Did manage to find a copy of OpenGL 1.1 headers and lib, although
+I"m not sure if these where actually required.
+  4) I did download OpenAL but didn't compile it, I did include it in my
+headers list but I'm not sure what affect that had overall.  But in the
+end, It did compile.
+
+  Thanks.
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Oct 26 14:24:10 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QCOAU62467
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:24:10 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9QCJHA89395
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:19:17 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9QCItc77889
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:18:55 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:18:55 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux compiling, ever
+Message-ID: <20011026141855.A75831@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BD8182C.FA99D138@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BD8182C.FA99D138@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Thu, Oct 25, 2001 at 03:48:28PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Vincent,
+
+Thanks for the bug report, we fix it in our CVS and it will be available
+in the public cvs tonigth.
+
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> src/3d/Makefile.am does not compile these sources :
+>   animated_morph.cpp
+>[...]
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Oct 26 14:27:50 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QCRoU62513
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:27:50 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9QCMwA89471
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:22:58 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <004901c15e18$f29917f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200110260025.f9Q0PBs18867@mail.in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Deprecated services
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:22:58 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Michael,
+
+You are not force to put variables Rec WinParam and SId. If you don't put
+them, you ll just have a warning message like this:
+"WRN 1176 config_file.h 283 : Exception will be launched: variable "Rec" not
+found in file "admin_executor_service.cfg""
+But it's not important because the warning is due to the Exceptiont. In
+debug mode, all Exception throw a warning to warn the coder.
+Anyway, You should remove unused Variable for example SId. In fact this
+variable is a *number*, an Id, that used to force the sid in the
+naming_service. You could set the variable to 0 if you don't want to force
+the number but let the naming_service find an empty SId for you. This value
+must be < 127.
+
+I'll check your problem with our sample and this probs if any.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Michael Warnock" <michael@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 3:26 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Deprecated services
+
+
+> 10/24/2001 6:39:04 AM, "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> wrote:
+>
+>
+> >We made few clean up in services directory (nelns). pac_service,
+log_service
+> >and time_service are removed from the CVS because they are deprecated.
+> >You don't need them to run a shard anymore.
+> >
+>
+> with a fresh recompile of the nelns and game specific services we first
+find that all the services want some new variables including XWinParam and
+SId.  We discovered the syntax of XWinParam and
+> it's friends, and made an educated guess on the others.  Here is a sample
+of our cfg which I'm guessing is correct:
+>
+> Rec = "no";
+> NSHost = "63.205.226.188";
+> NSPort = 50000;
+> BasePort = 51000;
+>
+> XWinParam = 600;
+> YWinParam = 0;
+> WWinParam = 600;
+> HWinParam = 300;
+>
+> SId = "NS";
+>
+> At any rate this was enough to dispel the warnings.  When we try to log in
+with a freshly recompiled client we get as far as choosing a shard before we
+are informed that there is no frontend service.
+> the frontend service's logs seem to indicate a normal connection.
+>
+>
+> Keep up the great work!
+> Michael Warnock
+> InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Oct 26 14:58:11 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QCw8U62681
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:58:09 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9QCrEA89957
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:53:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006f01c15e1d$2ca30bf0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com> <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com> <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com> <00bd01c15d58$b3cf5860$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3BD817D4.FC28E569@packetport.com> <3BD953CA.F8961CCD@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:53:13 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Yeah Tony!
+Good job!
+
+You re right, we didn't distrib (as I know) the data for the last snowballs
+(snowballs 0.2 is the *old* version).
+Anyway, you can download the *UNOFFICIAL* (there's no official one)
+snowballs data on my website (there's also the .exe in the .zip ;)
+You have to know that we are not sure that the client runs with older card
+than geforce card and if yes, it'll be really slow.
+
+The snowballs client runs at 12fps with a athlon800 with a geforce1 DDR
+(yes, it's slow but our target is next year pc) and you could modify the
+client.cfg to accelerate the landscape by decrease the quality.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Tony Hoyt" <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 2:15 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+
+
+> Oookay, Well I got it to compile! I got it to run!  And then, a couple
+> of things happened.
+>
+>   One thing was I had to dig around for a copy of a 3d dll. I didn't
+> take down the information on the name of things this time like perhaps I
+> should have, but basicly it looked like it was looking for a nel 3d dll
+> and couldn't find it.  I found it in code/nel/lib and when I (hack)
+> copied it into my build directory everything was fine.
+>
+>   Then it actuall ran! (After I found client.cfg too) But started asking
+> for data files... And in the end, the 0.2 data files didn't work with
+> it, so now i have to wonder, has ANYONE beyond the Nel team actually
+> have a working version of Snowballs?  I feel like i"m the first one
+> building this thing, But I can't be.  Well in any case, let me know
+> where I can get the latest data for Snowballs.  Thanks.
+>
+>   Tony
+>
+> p.s. I did end up haveing to do the following things to get the project
+> compiled.
+>
+>   1) libXML is required.
+>   2) Needed glext.h
+>   3) Did manage to find a copy of OpenGL 1.1 headers and lib, although
+> I"m not sure if these where actually required.
+>   4) I did download OpenAL but didn't compile it, I did include it in my
+> headers list but I'm not sure what affect that had overall.  But in the
+> end, It did compile.
+>
+>   Thanks.
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Fri Oct 26 15:14:33 2001
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QDEVU62784
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:14:32 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA991982
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:09:35 -0400 (EDT)
+Message-ID: <3BD960DD.FF606F3C@packetport.com>
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:10:53 -0400
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com> <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com> <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com> <00bd01c15d58$b3cf5860$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3BD817D4.FC28E569@packetport.com> <3BD953CA.F8961CCD@packetport.com> <006f01c15e1d$2ca30bf0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+  You've had a client all this time and.. and.. :-/  Well at least I
+found some documentation bugs. Oh and btw, NEL does not compile with
+STLPort 4.5.  Something about std::max. I'll get the error codes later. 
+In the mean time I'm checking out the snapshots on your website.  They
+do look really nice, But ya, I may have to 1) Lower my resolution and 2)
+Lower the detail In hopes to keep the frame rate up.  12fps on a gForce
+1 will most likely mean 4fps on a tnt2 if I"m lucky.  Looks like it's
+time to upgrade to the new gforce 3 ti200.
+
+  In the mean time I'll try and grab the data tonight and try again. 
+HOpefully I'll actually run this time!  And I say keep it up on forceing
+next years technology because it will mean in the end a more attractive
+product.  While users may not like upgradeing, gamers are a breed that
+are used to being low on cash :-)  So if I get this compiled, I should
+also be able to build my own server and make my own world, correct?  Hmm
+Time to look at the documentation on how to do that with little cash to
+go on.  I notice a lot of 3d Max plugins and apps. I hope that doesn't
+mean I need to use 3d max, but we'll see.  I am curious to see how it
+all works with a huge landscape.  Say, one going on the size of AC.  But
+first, Let's get Snowballs going! Thanks.
+
+  Tony
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Oct 26 15:21:17 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QDLEU62848
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:21:14 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9QDGJA90398
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:16:19 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9QDFu009409
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:15:56 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:15:56 +0200
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs Client?
+Message-ID: <20011026151556.A3106@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BD6B31B.6F5A7FA0@packetport.com> <20011024185141.A72567@nevrax.com> <3BD805D3.59288B2D@packetport.com> <00bd01c15d58$b3cf5860$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3BD817D4.FC28E569@packetport.com> <3BD953CA.F8961CCD@packetport.com> <006f01c15e1d$2ca30bf0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <006f01c15e1d$2ca30bf0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>; from lecroart@nevrax.com on Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 02:53:13PM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> You re right, we didn't distrib (as I know) the data for the last snowballs
+> (snowballs 0.2 is the *old* version).
+> Anyway, you can download the *UNOFFICIAL* (there's no official one)
+> snowballs data on my website (there's also the .exe in the .zip ;)
+
+You can download the last (as far as i know) version of the Snowballs
+datas in the lastest daily snapshot of our code :
+
+    http://nevrax.org/download/cvs/latest/
+
+These data were made the 29 august.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Fri Oct 26 20:01:33 2001
+Received: from fep23-svc.tin.it (mta23-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.76])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QI1WU64248
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:01:32 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.175]) by fep23-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011026175634.NGUP27943.fep23-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:56:34 +0200
+Message-ID: <008901c15e47$6217f230$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:55:21 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01C15E58.254FBC00"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C15E58.254FBC00
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+nel_export_classes project has still got some R:\blabla paths.
+Could you please fix that in the CVS so I ain't got to do it by hand =
+every time I update from the cvs?=20
+Thanks :)
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C15E58.254FBC00
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_export_classes project has still =
+got some=20
+R:\blabla paths.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could you please fix that in the CVS so =
+I ain't got=20
+to do it by hand every time I update from the cvs? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks :)</FONT></DIV><FONT =
+face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C15E58.254FBC00--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Fri Oct 26 20:02:46 2001
+Received: from fep23-svc.tin.it (mta23-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.76])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QI2kU64272
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:02:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.175]) by fep23-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011026175748.NGXO27943.fep23-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:57:48 +0200
+Message-ID: <009201c15e47$8ea0db00$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:56:36 +0200
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01C15E58.51DD38B0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Errata
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C15E58.51DD38B0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Ooops.. it's the object_viewer not nel_export :)
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C15E58.51DD38B0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ooops.. it's the object_viewer not =
+nel_export=20
+:)</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C15E58.51DD38B0--
+
+
+From doug@in-orbit.net Sat Oct 27 02:41:26 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9R0fPU66561
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:41:26 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from doug@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.186])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9QNbMs29570
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:37:22 -0700
+Message-ID: <3BD99F8E.C1A3FEE4@in-orbit.net>
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:38:22 +0000
+From: Doug Posner <doug@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17-21mdk i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <3BD8182C.FA99D138@zerodeux.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+it seems that the configure routine can't find the source files...
+
+[nelns]$ configure  --with-stlport=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/
+configure: error: can not find sources in . or .. 
+
+thanks
+doug
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Sat Oct 27 02:53:06 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9R0r6U66640
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:53:06 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA0D46CD
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:48:18 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3BDA0447.9CAB2453@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:48:07 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS
+References: <3BD8182C.FA99D138@zerodeux.net> <3BD99F8E.C1A3FEE4@in-orbit.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Doug Posner wrote:
+> 
+> it seems that the configure routine can't find the source files...
+> 
+> [nelns]$ configure  --with-stlport=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/
+> configure: error: can not find sources in . or ..
+
+I had to specify also the include path, so try :
+
+configure  --with-stlport=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/
+--with-stlport-include=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/stlport
+
+From doug@in-orbit.net Sat Oct 27 03:08:47 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9R18jU66791
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 03:08:46 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from doug@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.186])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9R04hs29767
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:04:43 -0700
+Message-ID: <3BD9A5F7.BDDBEAAB@in-orbit.net>
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:05:43 +0000
+From: Doug Posner <doug@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17-21mdk i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS
+References: <3BD8182C.FA99D138@zerodeux.net> <3BD99F8E.C1A3FEE4@in-orbit.net> <3BDA0447.9CAB2453@zerodeux.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+hi vincent-
+i tried your fix but i got the same error...
+$ ./configure --with-stlport=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/
+--with-stlport-include=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/stlport
+configure: error: can not find sources in . or ..
+
+the error is generated by the following in configure:
+
+# Find the source files, if location was not specified.
+if test -z "$srcdir"; then
+  ac_srcdir_defaulted=yes
+  # Try the directory containing this script, then its parent.
+  ac_prog=$0
+  ac_confdir=`echo $ac_prog|sed 's%/[^/][^/]*$%%'`
+  test "x$ac_confdir" = "x$ac_prog" && ac_confdir=.
+  srcdir=$ac_confdir
+  if test ! -r $srcdir/$ac_unique_file; then
+    srcdir=..
+  fi
+else
+  ac_srcdir_defaulted=no
+fi
+if test ! -r $srcdir/$ac_unique_file; then
+  if test "$ac_srcdir_defaulted" = yes; then
+    { echo "configure: error: can not find sources in $ac_confdir or .."
+1>&2; exit 1; }
+  else
+    { echo "configure: error: can not find sources in $srcdir" 1>&2;
+exit 1; }
+  fi
+fi
+
+specifically it's the "$ac_confdir" line that's printing the error.
+
+thanks
+doug
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> 
+> I had to specify also the include path, so try :
+> 
+> configure  --with-stlport=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/
+> --with-stlport-include=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/stlport
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Sat Oct 27 04:51:13 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9R2pDU69513
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 04:51:13 +0200 (CEST)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78D546D6
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 04:46:25 +0200 (CEST)
+Message-ID: <3BDA1FF6.7FE89145@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 04:46:14 +0200
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Get some :)
+
+nel/src/3d:
+
+quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp:260: name lookup of `i' changed for new ANSI `for' scoping
+quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp:254:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+
+zone_lighter.cpp:360: name lookup of `cpu' changed for new ANSI `for' scoping
+zone_lighter.cpp:293:   using obsolete binding at `cpu'
+
+zone_lighter.cpp:1328: name lookup of `i' changed for new ANSI `for' scoping
+zone_lighter.cpp:1313:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+
+nel/misc:
+
+Makefile.am lacks 'value_smoother.cpp'
+
+snowballs2/server/chat/src/main.cpp:52: use 'std::string' instead of 'string'
+
+
+... and YES, I finaly have a snowballs2 client compiled !
+
+Now, running it from 'snowballs2/client' :
+
+AST17023 command.cpp 58 : STOP There are 2 commands that have the same name in the project (command
+name 'quit')
+INF17023 client.cpp 138 : Starting Snowballs 1
+WRN17023 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: XextCreateExtension
+WRN17023 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+Aborted
+
+$ ldd /usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so
+        libstlport_gcc.so => /home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/lib/libstlport_gcc.so (0x4002a000)
+        libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x4014d000)
+        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x80000000)
+
+Shouldn't be the GL driver linked against X libs or something like that ?
+Actually setting 'LD_PRELOAD=/usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so' goes a step further:
+
+AST17072 command.cpp 58 : STOP There are 2 commands that have the same name in the project (command
+name 'quit')
+INF17072 client.cpp 138 : Starting Snowballs 1
+WRN17072 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: isVertexProgramSupported__CQ24NL3D9CDriverGL
+WRN17072 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+Aborted
+
+Too lazy to go further. Have fun :)
+
+From gcolgate@home.com Sun Oct 28 02:29:04 2001
+Received: from femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.84])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9S1T0U76161
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:29:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from gcolgate@home.com)
+Received: from home.com ([24.250.157.128]) by femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.20 201-229-121-120-20010223) with ESMTP
+          id <20011028012354.XZTJ571.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@home.com>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:23:54 -0700
+Message-ID: <3BDB6012.2BAD50D2@home.com>
+Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:32:02 -0700
+From: Gil Colgate <gcolgate@home.com>
+Organization: @Home Network
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-AtHome0407  (Win98; I)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Stability for at least a test product?
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Yes, I have no time to compile and run Nel; I'd like to see it running before I
+spend the time to get it to work. Does anyone have a zip of a working binary
+version?
+
+Tony Hoyt wrote:
+
+> How do things look at the moment for a stable working application?
+> Perhaps someone could set up a simple virtual chat world, something
+> where people could at least walk around a open field and perform basic
+> interactions?  It would be nice to get some real deminstrations of this
+> available for the public to see.
+>
+>   Plus I'm too lazy to do it myself :-/
+>
+>   Tony
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From eagleeye@flashmail.com Sun Oct 28 05:13:17 2001
+Received: from flashmail.com (IDENT:qmailr@flash3.flashmail.com [207.173.216.243])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f9S4DGU76978
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 05:13:17 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from eagleeye@flashmail.com)
+Received: (qmail 12609 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 04:09:50 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO mark94462) (204.26.80.222)
+  by 0 with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 04:09:50 -0000
+Message-ID: <002401c15f65$f4c3e8e0$11cac80a@tconl.com>
+From: "EagleEye" <eagleeye@flashmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BDB6012.2BAD50D2@home.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Stability for at least a test product?
+Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 23:01:31 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I think it would be against the rules to distribute the binaries...
+wouldn't it?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Gil Colgate" <gcolgate@home.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 8:32 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Stability for at least a test product?
+
+
+> Yes, I have no time to compile and run Nel; I'd like to see it running
+before I
+> spend the time to get it to work. Does anyone have a zip of a working
+binary
+> version?
+>
+> Tony Hoyt wrote:
+>
+> > How do things look at the moment for a stable working application?
+> > Perhaps someone could set up a simple virtual chat world, something
+> > where people could at least walk around a open field and perform basic
+> > interactions?  It would be nice to get some real deminstrations of this
+> > available for the public to see.
+> >
+> >   Plus I'm too lazy to do it myself :-/
+> >
+> >   Tony
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From guillaume@morinfr.org Sun Oct 28 11:08:36 2001
+Received: from oyster.morinfr.org (oyster.morinfr.org [62.4.22.234])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9SA8aU78630
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:08:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from guillaume@morinfr.org)
+Received: from guillaum by oyster.morinfr.org with local (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian))
+	id 15xmn8-0003oE-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:03:42 +0100
+Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:03:42 +0100
+From: Guillaume Morin <gmorin@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Stability for at least a test product?
+Message-ID: <20011028110342.A14602@morinfr.org>
+Mail-Followup-To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <3BD480BB.9DC1F695@packetport.com> <3BDB6012.2BAD50D2@home.com> <002401c15f65$f4c3e8e0$11cac80a@tconl.com>
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Dans un message du 27 oct à 23:01, EagleEye écrivait :
+> I think it would be against the rules to distribute the binaries...
+> wouldn't it?
+
+No it is not as long you do not modify the sources.
+
+-- 
+Guillaume Morin <guillaume@morinfr.org>
+
+                       Sauvez un arbre, mangez un castor
+
+From gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com Sun Oct 28 20:26:08 2001
+Received: from web11708.mail.yahoo.com (web11708.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.74])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f9SJQ7U81361
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:26:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com)
+Message-ID: <20011028192113.40016.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com>
+Received: from [24.44.233.152] by web11708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:21:13 PST
+Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:21:13 -0800 (PST)
+From: Tony Hoyt <gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com>
+To: Nel@nevrax.org
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I receieved the following error message when trying to build
+position.exe for Snowballs 2 server.  To be honest, I'm not that
+great at using Visual Studio, so I'm not positive how to solve this
+issue.  Thanks.
+
+<ErrorMessage>
+--------------------Configuration: position - Win32
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Linking...
+main.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: class
+NLMISC::CVector  __thiscall CTrajectory::eval(__int64)const "
+(?eval@CTrajectory@@QBE?AVCVector@NLMISC@@_J@Z)
+ReleaseDebug/position.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved
+externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+position.exe - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+</ErrorMessage>
+
+  In anycase, I'm trying to figure something out here.  So basicly,
+if I wanted to use NEL for my own online game, I would basicly take
+the Client and server Code examples to figure out how to build all my
+services and dependancies, then distribute the client to my player
+base and be all set.  Do I need to actually alter any NEL code to get
+my project working? If so, then I would need to release my source to
+my game although I wouldn't have to completely open up all the game
+content (exact data or tools used to build the game) would I?
+
+  I was under the assumetion that This was more of a like a SDK,
+where I would just link up some libraries, run some basic calls and
+then have a fully functional game.  Not neading anything more then
+the headers and library files.   Or am I mistaken?
+
+  Tony
+
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
+http://personals.yahoo.com
+
+From gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com Sun Oct 28 20:31:24 2001
+Received: from web11708.mail.yahoo.com (web11708.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.74])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f9SJVOU81413
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:31:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com)
+Message-ID: <20011028192629.40407.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com>
+Received: from [24.44.233.152] by web11708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:26:29 PST
+Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:26:29 -0800 (PST)
+From: Tony Hoyt <gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com>
+To: Nel Mailing List <Nel@nevrax.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Is there an active Snowballs 2 server to connect to at this time? The
+default values for inital server don't seem to resolve correctly at
+this point.
+
+  Tony
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
+http://personals.yahoo.com
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Oct 29 09:38:51 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9T8coU85604
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:38:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9T8XuA03445
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:33:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002801c16054$7bc03d00$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BDA1FF6.7FE89145@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:34:11 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp:260: name lookup of `i' changed for new ANSI
+`for' scoping
+> quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp:254:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+>
+> zone_lighter.cpp:360: name lookup of `cpu' changed for new ANSI `for'
+scoping
+> zone_lighter.cpp:293:   using obsolete binding at `cpu'
+>
+> zone_lighter.cpp:1328: name lookup of `i' changed for new ANSI `for'
+scoping
+> zone_lighter.cpp:1313:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+
+Fixed, always the same error.. :-)
+Thanks,
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Oct 29 11:57:06 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9TAv6U86232
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:57:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9TAqAA05200
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:52:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00b701c16067$c2ba1ec0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BDA1FF6.7FE89145@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:52:10 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Vicent
+
+> AST17023 command.cpp 58 : STOP There are 2 commands that have the same
+name in the project (command
+> name 'quit')
+
+Fixed this night.
+
+> WRN17072 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol:
+isVertexProgramSupported__CQ24NL3D9CDriverGL
+
+The makefile.am was out of date and some .cpp and .h missing in it (in your
+case driver_opengl_vertex_program.cpp)
+Fixed this night.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Oct 29 11:59:58 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9TAxvU86264
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:59:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9TAt1A05286
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:55:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00c701c16068$28b3c5a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011028192629.40407.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:55:01 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Tony,
+
+> Is there an active Snowballs 2 server to connect to at this time? The
+> default values for inital server don't seem to resolve correctly at
+> this point.
+
+No, there's no active server to connect but you can play offline at this
+time.
+The default values is our servers we never put them online (why? lack of
+time?).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Oct 29 13:50:46 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9TCojU86814
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:50:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9TCjpA06838
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:45:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00d501c16077$a40043a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011028192113.40016.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:45:51 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi again Tony,
+
+> <ErrorMessage>
+> main.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: class
+> NLMISC::CVector  __thiscall CTrajectory::eval(__int64)const "
+> (?eval@CTrajectory@@QBE?AVCVector@NLMISC@@_J@Z)
+> </ErrorMessage>
+
+Oups, I forgot to commit the new .dsp, We forgot to put physics.[cpp|h] in
+the .dsp
+Fixed this night.
+
+>   In anycase, I'm trying to figure something out here.  So basicly,
+> if I wanted to use NEL for my own online game, I would basicly take
+> the Client and server Code examples to figure out how to build all my
+> services and dependancies, then distribute the client to my player
+> base and be all set.  Do I need to actually alter any NEL code to get
+> my project working? If so, then I would need to release my source to
+> my game although I wouldn't have to completely open up all the game
+> content (exact data or tools used to build the game) would I?
+
+You don't need to alter NeL code unless you want to had some features in the
+lib.
+Anyway, you'll have to release your source if you distribute your program
+because you use a GPL licenced project.
+
+>   I was under the assumetion that This was more of a like a SDK,
+> where I would just link up some libraries, run some basic calls and
+> then have a fully functional game.  Not neading anything more then
+> the headers and library files.   Or am I mistaken?
+
+NeL is a not a SDK, it's only a package of library that help to to create
+your game, but NeL doesn't contains code for gameplay or stuffs like that,
+it's only a generic library to create easier your own game. NeL only provide
+a 3d engine, network engine, sound engine and ai engine.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Oct 29 14:51:21 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9TDpLU87106
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:51:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9TDkQA07990
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9TDk6Q18160
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:46:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:46:06 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?
+Message-ID: <20011029144606.A18126@nevrax.com>
+References: <20011028192629.40407.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20011028192629.40407.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com>; from gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com on Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 11:26:29AM -0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Tony Hoyt wrote:
+> Is there an active Snowballs 2 server to connect to at this time? The
+> default values for inital server don't seem to resolve correctly at
+> this point.
+
+Our demo server for Snowballs is itsalive.nevrax.org (195.68.21.196)
+since we release the code of Snowballs and Snowballs 2.
+
+Snowballs shard is not very stable and crash quite often and is not
+very well watched by us (sorry for that) so do not hesitate to contact
+us to relaunch it if we didn't notice the crash ...
+
+BTW, i just relaunch the shard :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Oct 29 15:12:47 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9TECiU87254
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:12:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9TE7RA19553
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:07:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:07:26 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS
+Message-ID: <20011029150726.A18258@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BD8182C.FA99D138@zerodeux.net> <3BD99F8E.C1A3FEE4@in-orbit.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BD99F8E.C1A3FEE4@in-orbit.net>; from doug@in-orbit.net on Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 05:38:22PM +0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Doug Posner wrote:
+> it seems that the configure routine can't find the source files...
+> 
+> [nelns]$ configure  --with-stlport=/home/doug/extracts/STLport-4.0/
+> configure: error: can not find sources in . or .. 
+
+That error is comming from the fact that we removed the source code of
+the Log service and the Time service in the repository and the
+configure.in file was dependent of that code ... that's fixed now.
+
+I'm currently synchronizing the our private CVS and the publi CVS, so
+the fixe should be available in few minutes.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Mon Oct 29 18:47:23 2001
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9THlLU88269
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:47:22 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:42:26 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <3BDD954A.C77FCC2D@packetport.com>
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:43:38 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?
+References: <20011028192629.40407.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> <20011029144606.A18126@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> Snowballs shard is not very stable and crash quite often and is not
+> very well watched by us (sorry for that) so do not hesitate to contact
+> us to relaunch it if we didn't notice the crash ...
+> 
+> BTW, i just relaunch the shard :-)
+
+  If and when I build all the Server code, how am I to run a shard
+exactly?  I didn't see a server.exe.  As a matter of fact I saw a
+'client' section in the server Workspace but no 'Server'.  I may just
+fiddle around then this week and see what bugs I can dig up and report. 
+If you would find that usefull at all that is.
+
+  Speeking of bugs, I need to report an assert that failed ( (f0==f1) I
+think) in the client.  It prevented me from running properly but I need
+to get a proper error message or at least line number for you guys. I
+keep forgetting to do that.  When I took out the assert, the client ran
+fine although I don't know what was could have gone wrong I just went
+with it for the time being.  Talk to you later.
+
+  Tony.
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Oct 29 20:05:51 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9TJ5pU88648
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:05:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:00:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000a01c160ac$0a9123d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200110260025.f9Q0PBs18867@mail.in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Deprecated services
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:00:56 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> At any rate this was enough to dispel the warnings.  When we try to log in
+with a freshly recompiled client we get as far as choosing a shard before we
+are informed that there is no frontend service.
+> the frontend service's logs seem to indicate a normal connection.
+
+I understood the problem and fixed it. It was a problem due to the new
+layer5 (I'll write a doc about that tomorrow).
+Update NeL, check that the file login_server.cpp is updated and all should
+be like before.
+
+I modified lot of file like Makefile, NeL source, Snowballs2 etc to fix all
+problem due to new NeL changes. Now, the client and server should work fine
+with the last NeL and snowballs2 version on cvs.
+Tomorow, I'll release new data package for snowballs2 that needed to run
+Snowballs2 client.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Oct 30 00:56:51 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9TNuoU90024
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:56:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E581D70
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:51:59 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3BDDEB96.DE92C27A@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:51:50 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+A patch didn't make it into the CVS tree :
+
+nel/src/ai/logic/fsm_seq_script.cpp
+nel/src/ai/logic/fsm_script.cpp
+nel/src/ai/logic/operator_script.cpp
+  have an obsolete
+#include "nel/ai/agent/gd_agent_script.h"
+
+BTW, when does the public CVS precisely synchronize with your internal one ?
+The '24h uncertainty' left us with the only choice of running 'cvs up' and...
+hoping it's there !
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Oct 30 01:28:15 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9U0SEU90211
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:28:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE6A1D70
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:23:24 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3BDDF2F3.5F627A0C@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:23:15 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Forgot this one : (needs a hell of a time to compile the ai/ code)
+
+nel/src/ai/agent_init.cpp
+nel/src/ai/static_def_init.cpp
+  still obsolete #include "nel/ai/agent/gd_agent_script.h"
+
+BTW: do you prefer bug reports here on this ML or via bugzilla ? I just
+checked it, and it seems pretty calm...
+
+From doug@in-orbit.net Tue Oct 30 02:52:29 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9U1qSU91206
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 02:52:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from doug@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.186])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9U0mDs01757
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:48:13 -0800
+Message-ID: <3BDD966C.8F75308A@in-orbit.net>
+Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:48:28 +0000
+From: Doug Posner <doug@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17-21mdk i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <3BDDF2F3.5F627A0C@zerodeux.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Error: Linux build (nel/src/3d/zone_lighter.cpp)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+
+In file included from zone_lighter.cpp:26:
+../../src/3d/zone_lighter.h: In method
+`NL3D::CZoneLighter::CTriangle::CTriangle(const NLMISC::CTriangle &)':
+../../src/3d/zone_lighter.h:143: warning: assignment of negative value
+`-1' to `unsigned int'
+../../src/3d/zone_lighter.h:144: warning: assignment of negative value
+`-1' to `unsigned int'
+zone_lighter.cpp: In method `void
+NL3D::CZoneLighter::light(NL3D::CLandscape &, NL3D::CZone &, unsigned
+int, const NL3D::CZoneLighter::CLightDesc &,
+_STL::vector<NL3D::CZoneLighter::CTriangle,_STL::allocator<NL3D::CZoneLighter::CTriangle>
+> &, _STL::vector<unsigned int,_STL::allocator<unsigned int> > &)':
+zone_lighter.cpp:368: no match for call to `(NLMISC::CVector) (int,
+sint)'
+zone_lighter.cpp:369: no match for call to `(NLMISC::CVector) (sint &,
+sint)'
+zone_lighter.cpp:370: no match for call to `(NLMISC::CVector) (int,
+sint)'
+zone_lighter.cpp:371: no match for call to `(NLMISC::CVector) (sint &,
+sint)'
+zone_lighter.cpp: In method `void
+NL3D::CZoneLighter::buildZoneInformation(NL3D::CLandscape &, const
+_STL::vector<unsigned int,_STL::allocator<unsigned int> > &, bool)':
+zone_lighter.cpp:2073: warning: initialization of negative value `-1' to
+`unsigned int'
+zone_lighter.cpp:2073: warning: initialization of negative value `-1' to
+`unsigned int'
+zone_lighter.cpp:2074: warning: initialization of negative value `-1' to
+`unsigned int'
+zone_lighter.cpp:2074: warning: initialization of negative value `-1' to
+`unsigned int'
+make[3]: *** [zone_lighter.lo] Error 1 
+
+thanks
+dp
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Oct 30 10:39:21 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9U9dIU93949
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:39:18 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9U9YIA17697
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:34:18 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003a01c16126$0bfe20e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BDDF2F3.5F627A0C@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)
+Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:34:18 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Vincent,
+
+In fact, I modified everything only in the goal of running Snowballs2, and
+we don't need AI at all so I don't try to compile that.
+And for the linux version, I only work on the server part, not the client
+one, so I didn't try to compile 3d on linux.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Oct 30 15:52:45 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9UEqiU95742
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:52:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9UElLk28481
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:47:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:47:21 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)
+Message-ID: <20011030154721.A28459@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BDDF2F3.5F627A0C@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BDDF2F3.5F627A0C@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 01:23:15AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> 
+> BTW: do you prefer bug reports here on this ML or via bugzilla ? I just
+> checked it, and it seems pretty calm...
+
+As you wish, we are very calm with our own bug report and almost all the
+current ones are in that cases ... we used it for non-prioritary bugs
+but if someone from outside post a bug on it, we aree a lot quicker :-)
+
+
+-- 
+Cedric
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Oct 30 15:56:07 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9UEu6U95787;
+	Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:56:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9UEp8A22998;
+	Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:51:08 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9UEofW28508;
+	Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:50:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:50:41 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org, snowballs@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20011030155041.B28459@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs data update
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all,
+
+We put a new Snowball data on our server available at :
+
+   http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs
+
+The old data were not compatible with our code anymore, so ...
+
+Have fun,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Oct 30 16:00:35 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9UF0XU95859
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:00:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9UEtbA23101
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:55:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9UEtAk28541
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:55:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:55:09 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)
+Message-ID: <20011030155509.C28459@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BDDEB96.DE92C27A@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BDDEB96.DE92C27A@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 12:51:50AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> 
+> BTW, when does the public CVS precisely synchronize with your internal one ?
+> The '24h uncertainty' left us with the only choice of running 'cvs up' and...
+> hoping it's there !
+
+It's synchronysed every nigth at 1:00 (am) CET, but once in a while we
+do mistakes like to forgot to commit some of our code, i know, shame on
+us but we are just humans :o)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Oct 31 11:02:36 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9VA2XU01807
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:02:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f9V9vaA30115
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:57:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f9V9vVn93949
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:57:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:57:30 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport
+Message-ID: <20011031105730.A93936@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BD59568.2C54A7E4@zerodeux.net> <20011024105705.A19893@nevrax.com> <3BD73D1A.DCB8FA55@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BD73D1A.DCB8FA55@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Thu, Oct 25, 2001 at 12:13:46AM +0200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Vincent,
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> 
+> There's a good advice in this error, so I ran :
+> 
+> CXXFLAGS=-ftemplate-depth-24 ./configure ; make
+> 
+> And it did the job. Maybe this should be set as a default ? BTW, this feature
+> is not documented in 'man g++'. I'm using g++ 2.95.4.
+
+I startted to compile NeL with STLPorts 4.5 and, following your advice,
+i added this option as a default in the configure.in file.
+
+Thanks for your help :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Wed Oct 31 12:32:41 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9VBWeU02250
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:32:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9VBRjA31537
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:27:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005d01c161ff$0fd3ad50$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BDDF2F3.5F627A0C@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)
+Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:27:45 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+this problem is now fixed.
+Thanks.
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 1:23 AM
+Subject: [Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)
+
+
+> Forgot this one : (needs a hell of a time to compile the ai/ code)
+> 
+> nel/src/ai/agent_init.cpp
+> nel/src/ai/static_def_init.cpp
+>   still obsolete #include "nel/ai/agent/gd_agent_script.h"
+> 
+> BTW: do you prefer bug reports here on this ML or via bugzilla ? I just
+> checked it, and it seems pretty calm...
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Wed Oct 31 12:34:21 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9VBYLU02282
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:34:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9VBTPA31558
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:29:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006201c161ff$4ba7afc0$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BDDEB96.DE92C27A@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)
+Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:29:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+Evry time this compile problem come back, i do'nt know way, but now is
+fixed.
+Thanks
+Sameh Chafik.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 12:51 AM
+Subject: [Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)
+
+
+> A patch didn't make it into the CVS tree :
+>
+> nel/src/ai/logic/fsm_seq_script.cpp
+> nel/src/ai/logic/fsm_script.cpp
+> nel/src/ai/logic/operator_script.cpp
+>   have an obsolete
+> #include "nel/ai/agent/gd_agent_script.h"
+>
+> BTW, when does the public CVS precisely synchronize with your internal one
+?
+> The '24h uncertainty' left us with the only choice of running 'cvs up'
+> and...
+> hoping it's there !
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From vizerie@nevrax.com Wed Oct 31 18:16:35 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9VHGWU03860
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:16:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nicolasv (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f9VHBYA36857
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:11:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00c401c1622f$19dfb200$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+From: "Nicolas Vizerie" <vizerie@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes
+Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:11:37 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C16237.7B9AF240"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C16237.7B9AF240
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Valerio,
+
+I corrected the paths in the object_viewer project
+
+Thanks for your report.
+
+Regards,
+
+Nicolas
+
+----- Forwarded message from Valerio Santinelli <tanis@mediacom.it> =
+-----
+
+Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:55:21 +0200
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+
+nel_export_classes project has still got some R:\blabla paths.
+Could you please fix that in the CVS so I ain't got to do it by hand =
+every time I update from the cvs?=20
+Thanks :)
+
+----- End forwarded message -----
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C16237.7B9AF240
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Valerio,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I corrected the paths in the =
+object_viewer=20
+project</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for your report.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nicolas</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Forwarded message from Valerio =
+Santinelli=20
+&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A>&gt;=20
+-----<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:55:21 +0200<BR>From: "Valerio =
+Santinelli"=20
+&lt;<A =
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A>&gt;<BR>To: =
+&lt;<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;<BR>Subject: [Nel] =
+Please fix=20
+the project for nel_export_classes<BR>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook =
+Express=20
+6.00.2600.0000<BR><BR>nel_export_classes project has still got some =
+R:\blabla=20
+paths.<BR>Could you please fix that in the CVS so I ain't got to do it =
+by hand=20
+every time I update from the cvs? <BR>Thanks :)<BR><BR>----- End =
+forwarded=20
+message -----<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C16237.7B9AF240--
+
+
+From ruud@rentashop.nl Sun Nov  4 17:38:37 2001
+Received: from mail.rentashop.nl (IDENT:root@mail.rentashop.nl [212.72.39.141])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA4GcbU41731
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:38:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ruud@rentashop.nl)
+Received: from wasp2 (breezke@qn-213-73-175-39.quicknet.nl [213.73.175.39])
+	by mail.rentashop.nl (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA13338
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:33:54 +0100
+Message-ID: <000801c1654e$36d0c2b0$27af49d5@wasp2>
+From: "Ruud Verdonck" <ruud@rentashop.nl>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:31:42 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C16556.912B6E60"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] buildig nel/snowballs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C16556.912B6E60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+I'm new to nel and c++,
+
+i just tried to compile snowballs 2, but i get link errors (prolly =
+something to do with STLport)
+
+here are some snippets:
+
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+class _STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class =
+_STL::allocator<char> > __thiscall NLNET::CBufSock::asString(void)const =
+" (?asString@CBufSock@NLNET@@QBE?AV?$ba
+sic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@XZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+class _STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class =
+_STL::allocator<char> > __thiscall =
+NLNET::CInetAddress::asString(void)const " =
+(?asString@CInetAddress@NLNET@@QB
+E?AV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@XZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+void __cdecl NLMISC::CLog::displayNL(char const *,...)" =
+(?displayNL@CLog@NLMISC@@QAAXPBDZZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+void __thiscall NLMISC::CLog::setPosition(int,char *)" =
+(?setPosition@CLog@NLMISC@@QAEXHPAD@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "class =
+NLMISC::CLog * NLMISC::InfoLog" (?InfoLog@NLMISC@@3PAVCLog@1@A)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "void =
+__cdecl NLMISC::createDebug(void)" (?createDebug@NLMISC@@YAXXZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+static void __cdecl NLNET::CNetManager::send(class =
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class =
+_STL::allocator<char> > const &,class NLNET::CMessage const &,clas
+s NLNET::CBufSock *)" =
+(?send@CNetManager@NLNET@@SAXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?=
+$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@ABVCMessage@2@PAVCBufSock@2@@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+void __thiscall NLNET::CInetAddress::serial(class NLMISC::IStream &)" =
+(?serial@CInetAddress@NLNET@@QAEXAAVIStream@NLMISC@@@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+virtual void __thiscall NLMISC::CMemStream::serial(unsigned __int8 &)" =
+(?serial@CMemStream@NLMISC@@UAEXAA_E@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: =
+virtual void __thiscall NLMISC::CMemStream::serial(class =
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class =
+_STL::allocator<char> > &)" (?serial@CMemStream@NLMISC@@UAEX
+AAV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@@Z)
+
+this is the naming service btw, but i get the same errors with snowballs =
+client,
+
+i installed stlport 4.0, nmake'd it, and installed it, and put the =
+directories in the VC options, above the microsoft ones
+i also tried stlport 4.5, i still get the same errors,
+
+Can anyone help?
+
+Ruud Verdonck
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C16556.912B6E60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm new to nel and c++,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i just tried to compile snowballs 2, =
+but i get link=20
+errors (prolly something to do with STLport)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>here are some snippets:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol "public: class _STL::basic_string&lt;char,class=20
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; =
+__thiscall=20
+NLNET::CBufSock::asString(void)const " (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?asString@CBufSock@NLNET@@QBE?AV?$ba">?asString@CBufSock@N=
+LNET@@QBE?AV?$ba</A><BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:sic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@=
+@XZ">sic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@XZ</A>)<B=
+R>naming_service.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: class=20
+_STL::basic_string&lt;char,class _STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class=20
+_STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; __thiscall=20
+NLNET::CInetAddress::asString(void)const " (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?asString@CInetAddress@NLNET@@QB">?asString@CInetAddress@N=
+LNET@@QB</A><BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:E?AV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@=
+2@@_STL@@XZ">E?AV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@=
+@_STL@@XZ</A>)<BR>naming_service.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: void __cdecl=20
+NLMISC::CLog::displayNL(char const *,...)" (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?displayNL@CLog@NLMISC@@QAAXPBDZZ">?displayNL@CLog@NLMISC@=
+@QAAXPBDZZ</A>)<BR>naming_service.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: void __thiscall=20
+NLMISC::CLog::setPosition(int,char *)" (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?setPosition@CLog@NLMISC@@QAEXHPAD@Z">?setPosition@CLog@NL=
+MISC@@QAEXHPAD@Z</A>)<BR>naming_service.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "class NLMISC::CLog *=20
+NLMISC::InfoLog" (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?InfoLog@NLMISC@@3PAVCLog@1@A">?InfoLog@NLMISC@@3PAVCLog@1=
+@A</A>)<BR>naming_service.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "void __cdecl=20
+NLMISC::createDebug(void)" (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?createDebug@NLMISC@@YAXXZ">?createDebug@NLMISC@@YAXXZ</A>=
+)<BR>naming_service.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: static void __cdecl =
+
+NLNET::CNetManager::send(class _STL::basic_string&lt;char,class=20
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; =
+const=20
+&amp;,class NLNET::CMessage const &amp;,clas<BR>s NLNET::CBufSock *)" =
+(<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?send@CNetManager@NLNET@@SAXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_tra=
+its@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@ABVCMessage@2@PAVCBufSock@2@@Z">?send=
+@CNetManager@NLNET@@SAXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$alloc=
+ator@D@2@@_STL@@ABVCMessage@2@PAVCBufSock@2@@Z</A>)<BR>naming_service.obj=
+=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: void __thiscall=20
+NLNET::CInetAddress::serial(class NLMISC::IStream &amp;)" (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?serial@CInetAddress@NLNET@@QAEXAAVIStream@NLMISC@@@Z">?se=
+rial@CInetAddress@NLNET@@QAEXAAVIStream@NLMISC@@@Z</A>)<BR>naming_service=
+.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: virtual void =
+__thiscall=20
+NLMISC::CMemStream::serial(unsigned __int8 &amp;)" (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?serial@CMemStream@NLMISC@@UAEXAA_E@Z">?serial@CMemStream@=
+NLMISC@@UAEXAA_E@Z</A>)<BR>naming_service.obj=20
+: error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: virtual void =
+__thiscall=20
+NLMISC::CMemStream::serial(class _STL::basic_string&lt;char,class=20
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; =
+&amp;)" (<A=20
+href=3D"mailto:?serial@CMemStream@NLMISC@@UAEX">?serial@CMemStream@NLMISC=
+@@UAEX</A><BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:AAV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2=
+@@_STL@@@Z">AAV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_=
+STL@@@Z</A>)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this is the naming service btw, but i =
+get the same=20
+errors with snowballs client,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i installed stlport 4.0, nmake'd it, =
+and installed=20
+it, and put the directories in the VC options, above the microsoft=20
+ones</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i also tried stlport 4.5, i still get =
+the same=20
+errors,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone help?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ruud Verdonck</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C16556.912B6E60--
+
+
+From prashantp@ti.com Mon Nov  5 07:22:35 2001
+Received: from jester.ti.com (jester.ti.com [192.94.94.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA56MYU46920
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+From: "Prashant Pansare" <prashantp@ti.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:51:22 +0800
+Organization: Texas Instruments India
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] help
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C165F0.3095E1D0
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+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+any [help][response] [documentation] which would help me figure=20
+things about jpeg and " fancy umsampling "
+would be greatly appreciated=20
+
+Thanx & Regards ,=20
+
+Prashant=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C165F0.3095E1D0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>any [help][response] [documentation] =
+which would=20
+help me figure </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>things about jpeg and " fancy =
+umsampling=20
+"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>would be greatly appreciated =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanx &amp; Regards , </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Prashant </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C165F0.3095E1D0--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Nov  5 10:53:46 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA59rkU48097
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:53:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA59mlA59982
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:48:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00db01c165df$10bc68e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000801c1654e$36d0c2b0$27af49d5@wasp2>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] buildig nel/snowballs
+Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:48:47 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Ruud,
+
+> i just tried to compile snowballs 2, but i get link errors (prolly
+something to do with STLport)
+> naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+class _STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > __thiscall NLNET::CBufSock::asString(void)const "
+(?asString@CBufSock@NLNET@@QBE?AV?$ba
+
+It seems that the project you opened doesn't have dependencies with nel misc
+and nel net.
+You have to open the file name services.dsw that is in the code/nel/nelns/
+directory and not .dsp.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Ruud Verdonck" <ruud@rentashop.nl>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 5:31 PM
+Subject: [Nel] buildig nel/snowballs
+
+
+Hi,
+
+I'm new to nel and c++,
+
+i just tried to compile snowballs 2, but i get link errors (prolly something
+to do with STLport)
+
+here are some snippets:
+
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+class _STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > __thiscall NLNET::CBufSock::asString(void)const "
+(?asString@CBufSock@NLNET@@QBE?AV?$ba
+sic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@XZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+class _STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > __thiscall NLNET::CInetAddress::asString(void)const
+" (?asString@CInetAddress@NLNET@@QB
+E?AV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@XZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: void
+__cdecl NLMISC::CLog::displayNL(char const *,...)"
+(?displayNL@CLog@NLMISC@@QAAXPBDZZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: void
+__thiscall NLMISC::CLog::setPosition(int,char *)"
+(?setPosition@CLog@NLMISC@@QAEXHPAD@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "class
+NLMISC::CLog * NLMISC::InfoLog" (?InfoLog@NLMISC@@3PAVCLog@1@A)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "void __cdecl
+NLMISC::createDebug(void)" (?createDebug@NLMISC@@YAXXZ)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+static void __cdecl NLNET::CNetManager::send(class
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > const &,class NLNET::CMessage const &,clas
+s NLNET::CBufSock *)"
+(?send@CNetManager@NLNET@@SAXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$al
+locator@D@2@@_STL@@ABVCMessage@2@PAVCBufSock@2@@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: void
+__thiscall NLNET::CInetAddress::serial(class NLMISC::IStream &)"
+(?serial@CInetAddress@NLNET@@QAEXAAVIStream@NLMISC@@@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+virtual void __thiscall NLMISC::CMemStream::serial(unsigned __int8 &)"
+(?serial@CMemStream@NLMISC@@UAEXAA_E@Z)
+naming_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+virtual void __thiscall NLMISC::CMemStream::serial(class
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > &)" (?serial@CMemStream@NLMISC@@UAEX
+AAV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@@Z)
+
+this is the naming service btw, but i get the same errors with snowballs
+client,
+
+i installed stlport 4.0, nmake'd it, and installed it, and put the
+directories in the VC options, above the microsoft ones
+i also tried stlport 4.5, i still get the same errors,
+
+Can anyone help?
+
+Ruud Verdonck
+
+
+
+
+From WLeung@powerlan.com.au Tue Nov  6 06:01:00 2001
+Received: from PLT_SMTP_LCV.lcv.pwr ([203.25.108.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fA650uU55110
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 06:00:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from WLeung@powerlan.com.au)
+Received: FROM mail.powerlan.com.au BY PLT_SMTP_LCV.lcv.pwr ; Tue Nov 06 15:53:02 2001 +1100
+Received: by pop3.powerlan.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
+	id <WCR42G6R>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:54:43 +1100
+Message-ID: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE2@pop3.powerlan.com.au>
+From: WLeung@powerlan.com.au
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:54:43 +1100 
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1667F.264CED60"
+Subject: [Nel] Cannot start server.
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
+this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
+
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C1667F.264CED60
+Content-Type: text/plain
+
+Hi,
+
+I have got Nel, Nelns, snowballs2 server all compiled without any error on a
+Linux Box.
+
+The files such as "naming_service", "login_service"... are in
+"/usr/local/bin/".
+
+I have created a ns.cfg and ls.txt in the directory "/usr/local/", and they
+are as follow:
+
+
+--ns.cfg--
+Host="pctest";
+Port=50000;
+----------
+
+--ls.txt--
+Shards = {
+ "pctest", "Shard1"
+};
+----------
+
+The hostname of my machine has set to "pctest".
+
+But when I try to start "naming_service", I got the following output
+(errors?):
+
+============================================================================
+==
+Log Starting [01/11/06 15:38:37]
+01/11/06 15:38:37 INF: Starting Service 'NS' using NeL (Nov  6 2001
+15:36:46)
+01/11/06 15:38:37 INF: args = 1
+01/11/06 15:38:37 INF: argv[0] = './bin/naming_service'
+01/11/06 15:38:37 AST: "localaddr.ipAddress() != "127.0.0.1"" 
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: variable "Rec"
+not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: variable
+"StringMsgFormat" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error:
+Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused)
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect now (Socket error:
+Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused))
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: variable "SId"
+not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS AST: "localaddr.ipAddress() != "127.0.0.1"" 
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: variable
+"BasePort" not found in file "naming_service.cfg"
+01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS INF: Service ready
+01/11/06 15:38:42 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error:
+Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused)
+01/11/06 15:38:42 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect now to localhost:49997
+(reason: Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111:
+Connection refused))
+01/11/06 15:38:47 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error:
+Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused)
+01/11/06 15:38:47 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect now to localhost:49997
+(reason: Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111:
+Connection refused))
+01/11/06 15:38:52 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error:
+Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused)
+01/11/06 15:38:52 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect now to localhost:49997
+(reason: Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111:
+Connection refused))
+.
+.
+.
+.
+.
+============================================================================
+===============
+
+It looks like it cannot connect to port 49997.  I have try to nmap/telnet to
+the port 49997 and there is nothing on this port.
+
+Could you tell me what happen and how do I fix this?
+
+Thanks.
+
+Wilson
+
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C1667F.264CED60
+Content-Type: text/html
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+<HEAD>
+<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3DUS-ASCII">
+<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
+5.5.2653.12">
+<TITLE>Cannot start server.</TITLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi,</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I have got Nel, Nelns, snowballs2 server all compiled =
+without any error on a Linux Box.</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The files such as &quot;naming_service&quot;, =
+&quot;login_service&quot;... are in &quot;/usr/local/bin/&quot;.</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I have created a ns.cfg and ls.txt in the directory =
+&quot;/usr/local/&quot;, and they are as follow:</FONT>
+</P>
+<BR>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--ns.cfg--</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Host=3D&quot;pctest&quot;;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Port=3D50000;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>----------</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--ls.txt--</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Shards =3D {</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&quot;pctest&quot;, &quot;Shard1&quot;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>};</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>----------</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The hostname of my machine has set to =
+&quot;pctest&quot;.</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>But when I try to start &quot;naming_service&quot;, I =
+got the following output (errors?):</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT =
+SIZE=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Log Starting [01/11/06 15:38:37]</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 INF: Starting Service 'NS' using =
+NeL (Nov&nbsp; 6 2001 15:36:46)</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 INF: args =3D 1</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 INF: argv[0] =3D =
+'./bin/naming_service'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 AST: &quot;localaddr.ipAddress() =
+!=3D &quot;127.0.0.1&quot;&quot; </FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: variable &quot;Rec&quot; not found in file =
+&quot;naming_service.cfg&quot;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: variable &quot;StringMsgFormat&quot; not found in file =
+&quot;naming_service.cfg&quot;</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed =
+(111: Connection refused)</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect =
+now (Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: =
+Connection refused))</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: variable &quot;SId&quot; not found in file =
+&quot;naming_service.cfg&quot;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS AST: =
+&quot;localaddr.ipAddress() !=3D &quot;127.0.0.1&quot;&quot; </FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: variable &quot;BasePort&quot; not found in file =
+&quot;naming_service.cfg&quot;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS INF: Service =
+ready</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:42 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed =
+(111: Connection refused)</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:42 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect =
+now to localhost:49997 (reason: Socket error: Connection to =
+pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused))</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:47 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed =
+(111: Connection refused)</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:47 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect =
+now to localhost:49997 (reason: Socket error: Connection to =
+pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused))</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:52 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: Socket error: Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed =
+(111: Connection refused)</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/06 15:38:52 pctest/NS INF: L4: can't connect =
+now to localhost:49997 (reason: Socket error: Connection to =
+pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused))</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT =
+SIZE=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT=
+>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It looks like it cannot connect to port 49997.&nbsp; =
+I have try to nmap/telnet to the port 49997 and there is nothing on =
+this port.</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Could you tell me what happen and how do I fix =
+this?</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks.</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Wilson</FONT>
+</P>
+
+</BODY>
+</HTML>
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C1667F.264CED60--
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Nov  6 10:34:06 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA69Y6U56416
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:34:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA69T6A72726
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:29:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000e01c166a5$7b396300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE2@pop3.powerlan.com.au>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Cannot start server.
+Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:29:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Wilson,
+
+> I have created a ns.cfg and ls.txt
+
+Theses files are totally out of date, you must take a look to these files
+(sorry, they are in doxygen format and not generated so it s not really easy
+to read):
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/nel/doc/net/service.dxt
+?rev=1.2&content-type=text/plain
+
+and
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/nelns/doc/server.dxt?re
+v=1.2&content-type=text/plain
+
+These files explain how to create a service and how work default services
+like naming service and so on.
+
+Anyway, naming_service doesn t need config file so it works fine without.
+
+> 01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS INF: Service ready
+
+This line means that your services is running fine.
+
+> 01/11/06 15:38:42 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error:
+> Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection refused)
+
+Each server could have an admin_executor_service running on it and all
+services of this server will connect on it. All services try, evenly, to
+connect to the AES and if the connection failed, this output will be
+display. It's not an error, just a warning. (look the url for more
+information) Just launch the admin_executor_service and the naming_service
+will be quiet.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Nov  6 16:03:59 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA6F3xU57992
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:03:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id fA6EwxA77358
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:58:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fA6Ewwq02201
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:58:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:58:58 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?
+Message-ID: <20011106155858.A2157@nevrax.com>
+References: <20011028192629.40407.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> <20011029144606.A18126@nevrax.com> <3BDD954A.C77FCC2D@packetport.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BDD954A.C77FCC2D@packetport.com>; from ahoyt@packetport.com on Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 12:43:38PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Tony,
+
+
+Tony Hoyt wrote:
+> 
+>   If and when I build all the Server code, how am I to run a shard
+> exactly?  I didn't see a server.exe.  As a matter of fact I saw a
+> 'client' section in the server Workspace but no 'Server'.  I may just
+> fiddle around then this week and see what bugs I can dig up and report. 
+> If you would find that usefull at all that is.
+
+The shard is made to run over several servers, so we didn't write any
+script/program to run everything at once on one server.
+
+There is a description about launching the shard service in the HOWTO
+file place in the NeLNS source directory, That's might help you :-)
+
+After the NelNS is launch, you can start the snowballs services
+(chat, position, and frontend services).
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Nov  6 16:24:41 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA6FOeU58116
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:24:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA6FJcA77759
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:19:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <009f01c166d6$73049840$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011028192629.40407.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> <20011029144606.A18126@nevrax.com> <3BDD954A.C77FCC2D@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?
+Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:19:38 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Tony,
+
+>   Speeking of bugs, I need to report an assert that failed ( (f0==f1) I
+> think) in the client.  It prevented me from running properly but I need
+> to get a proper error message or at least line number for you guys. I
+> keep forgetting to do that.  When I took out the assert, the client ran
+> fine although I don't know what was could have gone wrong I just went
+> with it for the time being.  Talk to you later.
+
+The assert was fixed last week (and i forgot to answer you :-/  sorry)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Nov  6 18:19:46 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA6HJaU58660;
+	Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:19:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA6HEWA79672;
+	Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:14:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00bd01c166e6$8037b410$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <snowballs@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:14:32 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] itaslive is alive
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi there,
+
+We launched on our server (itsalive.nevrax.org) a shard with last snowballs2
+services if you want to try the client.
+You just have to check you client.cfg and look the LoginSystemAddress
+variable and set it to "itsalive.nevrax.org".
+Launch the client, press F1 and enter a login and password (don't forget the
+password), select the shard and you are online.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From WLeung@powerlan.com.au Wed Nov  7 02:20:51 2001
+Received: from PLT_SMTP_LCV.lcv.pwr ([203.25.108.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fA71KjU62345
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 02:20:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from WLeung@powerlan.com.au)
+Received: FROM mail.powerlan.com.au BY PLT_SMTP_LCV.lcv.pwr ; Wed Nov 07 12:12:50 2001 +1100
+Received: by pop3.powerlan.com.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
+	id <WCR42L8M>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:14:30 +1100
+Message-ID: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE4@pop3.powerlan.com.au>
+From: WLeung@powerlan.com.au
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:14:29 +1100 
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C16729.8CFBB230"
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Cannot start server
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
+this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
+
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C16729.8CFBB230
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+
+Hi Vianney,
+
+Thank for that! I have followed the server.dxt documention and have started
+"admin_executor_service", "naming_service", "login_service",
+"welcome_service"...but when I tried to start "admin_service", I got into
+error again, and the logs are:
+
+Log Starting [01/11/07 11:29:24]
+01/11/07 11:29:24 INF: Starting Service 'AS' using NeL (Nov  6 2001
+15:36:46)
+01/11/07 11:29:24 INF: args = 1
+01/11/07 11:29:24 INF: argv[0] = 'admin_service'
+01/11/07 11:29:24 AST: "localaddr.ipAddress() != "127.0.0.1"" 
+01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be launched: variable "Rec"
+not found in file "admin_service.cfg"
+01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be launched: variable
+"StringMsgFormat" not found in file "admin_service.cfg"
+01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be launched: variable "SId"
+not found in file "admin_service.cfg"
+01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS AST: "localaddr.ipAddress() != "127.0.0.1"" 
+01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be launched: Trying to
+access to the index 1 but the variable "AESHosts" size is 1
+.
+.
+.
+admin_service abort
+
+
+In admin_service.cfg, I have:
+
+---admin_service.cfg---
+NSHost = "pctest";
+NSPort = "50000";
+AESHosts = "pctest";
+-----------------------
+
+
+What should I put for AESHosts?  Do I need to create my own service?
+
+After I have got the server running, I will go for the client on a window
+machine.
+I did have a go on trying to compile the client on Linux, with gcc2.96x, but
+I received a compile error saying that it cannot reference to
+"libnel3d.so"...
+
+I read the mailing-archive at 2001-March, it was explained that this problem
+causes by inline function with gcc, and someone said they have fixed this
+problem.  But I am stilling have the same error.  Could you tell me how to
+fix this?
+
+
+Thanks,
+
+Wilson
+
+
+
+> Message: 2
+> From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] Cannot start server.
+> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:29:06 +0100
+> charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+>
+> Hi Wilson,
+>
+> > I have created a ns.cfg and ls.txt
+>
+> Theses files are totally out of date, you must take a look to these
+files
+> (sorry, they are in doxygen format and not generated so it s not
+really
+easy
+> to read):
+>
+>
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/nel/doc/net/service
+.dxt
+> ?rev=1.2&content-type=text/plain
+>
+> and
+>
+>
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/nelns/doc/server.dx
+t?re
+> v=1.2&content-type=text/plain
+>
+> These files explain how to create a service and how work default
+services
+> like naming service and so on.
+>
+> Anyway, naming_service doesn t need config file so it works fine
+without.
+>
+> > 01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS INF: Service ready
+>
+> This line means that your services is running fine.
+>
+> > 01/11/06 15:38:42 pctest/NS WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket
+error:
+> > Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) failed (111: Connection
+refused)
+>
+> Each server could have an admin_executor_service running on it and all
+> services of this server will connect on it. All services try, evenly,
+to
+> connect to the AES and if the connection failed, this output will be
+> display. It's not an error, just a warning. (look the url for more
+> information) Just launch the admin_executor_service and the
+naming_service
+> will be quiet.
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+
+o?
+K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+>
+>
+>
+>
+> --__--__--
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+>
+> End of Nel Digest_______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+ http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C16729.8CFBB230
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+<HEAD>
+<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
+5.5.2653.12">
+<TITLE>RE: Cannot start server</TITLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi Vianney,</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thank for that! I have followed the server.dxt =
+documention and have started &quot;admin_executor_service&quot;, =
+&quot;naming_service&quot;, &quot;login_service&quot;, =
+&quot;welcome_service&quot;...but when I tried to start =
+&quot;admin_service&quot;, I got into error again, and the logs =
+are:</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Log Starting [01/11/07 11:29:24]</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 INF: Starting Service 'AS' using =
+NeL (Nov&nbsp; 6 2001 15:36:46)</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 INF: args =3D 1</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 INF: argv[0] =3D =
+'admin_service'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 AST: &quot;localaddr.ipAddress() =
+!=3D &quot;127.0.0.1&quot;&quot; </FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: variable &quot;Rec&quot; not found in file =
+&quot;admin_service.cfg&quot;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: variable &quot;StringMsgFormat&quot; not found in file =
+&quot;admin_service.cfg&quot;</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: variable &quot;SId&quot; not found in file =
+&quot;admin_service.cfg&quot;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS AST: =
+&quot;localaddr.ipAddress() !=3D &quot;127.0.0.1&quot;&quot; </FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be =
+launched: Trying to access to the index 1 but the variable =
+&quot;AESHosts&quot; size is 1</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>admin_service abort</FONT>
+</P>
+<BR>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In admin_service.cfg, I have:</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>---admin_service.cfg---</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>NSHost =3D &quot;pctest&quot;;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>NSPort =3D &quot;50000&quot;;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>AESHosts =3D &quot;pctest&quot;;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----------------------</FONT>
+</P>
+<BR>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What should I put for AESHosts?&nbsp; Do I need to =
+create my own service?</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>After I have got the server running, I will go for =
+the client on a window machine.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>I did have a go on trying to compile the client on =
+Linux, with gcc2.96x, but I received a compile error saying that it =
+cannot reference to &quot;libnel3d.so&quot;...</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I read the mailing-archive at 2001-March, it was =
+explained that this problem causes by inline function with gcc, and =
+someone said they have fixed this problem.&nbsp; But I am stilling have =
+the same error.&nbsp; Could you tell me how to fix this?</FONT></P>
+<BR>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks,</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Wilson</FONT>
+</P>
+<BR>
+<BR>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Message: 2</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: &quot;Vianney Lecoart&quot; =
+&lt;lecroart@nevrax.com&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: &lt;nel@nevrax.org&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [Nel] Cannot start server.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:29:06 +0100</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; charset=3D&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Hi Wilson,</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; I have created a ns.cfg and ls.txt</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Theses files are totally out of date, you must =
+take a look to these</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>files</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; (sorry, they are in doxygen format and not =
+generated so it s not</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>really</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>easy</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; to read):</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
+HREF=3D"http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/nel/doc/net=
+/service" =
+TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/n=
+el/doc/net/service</A></FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>.dxt</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; ?rev=3D1.2&amp;content-type=3Dtext/plain</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; and</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
+HREF=3D"http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/nelns/doc/s=
+erver.dx" =
+TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/code/n=
+elns/doc/server.dx</A></FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>t?re</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; v=3D1.2&amp;content-type=3Dtext/plain</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; These files explain how to create a service and =
+how work default</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>services</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; like naming service and so on.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Anyway, naming_service doesn t need config file =
+so it works fine</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>without.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; 01/11/06 15:38:37 pctest/NS INF: Service =
+ready</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; This line means that your services is running =
+fine.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; 01/11/06 15:38:42 pctest/NS WRN: Exception =
+will be launched: Socket</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>error:</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Connection to pctest:49997 (127.0.0.1) =
+failed (111: Connection</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>refused)</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Each server could have an =
+admin_executor_service running on it and all</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; services of this server will connect on it. All =
+services try, evenly,</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; connect to the AES and if the connection =
+failed, this output will be</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; display. It's not an error, just a warning. =
+(look the url for more</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; information) Just launch the =
+admin_executor_service and the</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>naming_service</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; will be quiet.</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Vianney Lecroart</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; ---</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; lead network programmer / nevrax.com</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; icq#: 6870415</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; homepage: <A HREF=3D"http://ace.planet-d.net" =
+TARGET=3D"_blank">http://ace.planet-d.net</A></FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ =
+P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>o?</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>K-</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- =
+DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; --__--__--</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
+_______________________________________________</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Nel mailing list</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Nel@nevrax.org</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; <A =
+HREF=3D"http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel" =
+TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A></FO=
+NT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; End of Nel =
+Digest_______________________________________________</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Nel mailing list</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Nel@nevrax.org</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;<A =
+HREF=3D"http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel" =
+TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A></FO=
+NT>
+</P>
+
+</BODY>
+</HTML>
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C16729.8CFBB230--
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Nov  7 10:58:52 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA79wnU65936
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:58:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA79rjA84891
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:53:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002001c16772$175d2ec0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE4@pop3.powerlan.com.au>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Cannot start server
+Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:53:45 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> but when I tried to start "admin_service", I got into error again, and the
+logs are:
+
+You don't need to launch admin_service to run a shard. Anyway, look the cfg
+that are in the code/nelns directories (for example
+code/nelns/admin_service/admin_service.cfg)
+
+> 01/11/07 11:29:24 AST: "localaddr.ipAddress() != "127.0.0.1""
+
+This assert means that you don't have network card :/ (is it true?) or
+there's something strange with your OS.
+Remove the assert in the inet_address.cpp line 407:
+    nlassert( localaddr.ipAddress() != "127.0.0.1" );
+
+> 01/11/07 11:29:24 pctest/AS WRN: Exception will be launched: Trying to
+> access to the index 1 but the variable "AESHosts" size is 1
+
+AESHosts is not a string variable but an array of string, look
+code/nelns/admin_service/admin_service.cfg
+It contains the alias string "S1" and the ip of the server "localhost" for
+example.
+
+> After I have got the server running, I will go for the client on a window
+> machine.
+
+You can test the client with our nevrax server (itsalive.nevrax.org) look my
+last mail.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From dee115@optushome.com.au Wed Nov  7 13:57:42 2001
+Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.232])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA7CvdU67102
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 13:57:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from dee115@optushome.com.au)
+Received: from CO3005935A (c728.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [203.164.58.221])
+	by mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA7CqTJ01081
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 23:52:29 +1100
+Message-ID: <001001c16793$7eb0e460$dd3aa4cb@CO3005935A>
+From: "Dee" <dee115@optushome.com.au>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 00:52:51 +1100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C167EF.B194ACC0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C167EF.B194ACC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,=20
+
+I have just got the snowball2 client running.  I try to connect to the =
+server (itsalive.nevrax.org) that you mentioned in last email.  But I =
+either receive a 10051:network is unreachable, or 10060: Connection =
+timed-out.
+
+The following is the log:
+
+Log Starting [01/11/08 00:14:23]
+01/11/08 00:14:23 INF: Starting Snowballs 1
+01/11/08 00:14:30 INF: Welcome to Snowballs
+01/11/08 00:14:30 INF:=20
+01/11/08 00:14:30 INF: Press SHIFT-ESC to exit the game
+01/11/08 00:14:39 INF: static const char *OtherSideAssociations[] =3D {
+01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:  "AA",
+01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:  "RA",
+01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:  "RAA",
+01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:  "VLP",
+01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:  "SCS",
+01/11/08 00:14:39 INF: };
+01/11/08 00:14:40 WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error: =
+Connection closed (0)
+01/11/08 00:14:40 INF: Report for blocking socket =
+itsalive.nevrax.org:49999 (195.68.21.196): Max send time: 0 Max recv =
+time: 683
+01/11/08 00:14:40 INF: Max send time: 0
+01/11/08 00:14:59 INF: static const char *OtherSideAssociations[] =3D {
+01/11/08 00:14:59 INF:  "AA",
+01/11/08 00:14:59 INF:  "RA",
+01/11/08 00:14:59 INF:  "RAA",
+01/11/08 00:14:59 INF:  "VLP",
+01/11/08 00:14:59 INF:  "SCS",
+01/11/08 00:14:59 INF: };
+01/11/08 00:15:03 WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error: =
+Connection closed (0)
+01/11/08 00:15:03 INF: Report for blocking socket =
+itsalive.nevrax.org:49999 (195.68.21.196): Max send time: 0 Max recv =
+time: 3831
+01/11/08 00:15:03 INF: Max send time: 0
+01/11/08 00:15:03 INF: addr:192.168.100.4:37000 =
+cookie:'3711608011|2513154061|8'
+01/11/08 00:15:24 WRN: Exception will be launched: Socket error: =
+Connection to 192.168.100.4:37000 (192.168.100.4) failed (10060: =
+Connection timed-out)
+01/11/08 00:15:38 INF: Report for blocking socket :0 (0.0.0.0): Max send =
+time: 0 Max recv time: 0
+01/11/08 00:15:38 INF: Max send time: 0
+
+
+I am running the release version.  And when I start the client, why it =
+said "Snowballs 1", but not "Snowballs 2".  Is this correct?
+
+I have set up a server on a Linux machine.  But when I try to connect to =
+it, there is an error saying that there is no front end service running. =
+ Then I try to start "sno_frontend", but it just say cannot locate =
+"libnelnet.so" (??? I forgot what's the file name, I am not around the =
+Linux machine right now).
+
+Thanks!!
+
+Wilson
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C167EF.B194ACC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have just got the snowball2 client =
+running.&nbsp;=20
+I try to connect to the server (itsalive.nevrax.org) that you mentioned =
+in last=20
+email.&nbsp; But I either receive a 10051:network is unreachable, or =
+10060:=20
+Connection timed-out.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The following is the log:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Log Starting [01/11/08 =
+00:14:23]<BR>01/11/08=20
+00:14:23 INF: Starting Snowballs 1<BR>01/11/08 00:14:30 INF: Welcome to=20
+Snowballs<BR>01/11/08 00:14:30 INF: <BR>01/11/08 00:14:30 INF: Press =
+SHIFT-ESC=20
+to exit the game<BR>01/11/08 00:14:39 INF: static const char=20
+*OtherSideAssociations[] =3D {<BR>01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:&nbsp; =
+"AA",<BR>01/11/08=20
+00:14:39 INF:&nbsp; "RA",<BR>01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:&nbsp; =
+"RAA",<BR>01/11/08=20
+00:14:39 INF:&nbsp; "VLP",<BR>01/11/08 00:14:39 INF:&nbsp; =
+"SCS",<BR>01/11/08=20
+00:14:39 INF: };<BR>01/11/08 00:14:40 WRN: Exception will be launched: =
+Socket=20
+error: Connection closed (0)<BR>01/11/08 00:14:40 INF: Report for =
+blocking=20
+socket itsalive.nevrax.org:49999 (195.68.21.196): Max send time: 0 Max =
+recv=20
+time: 683<BR>01/11/08 00:14:40 INF: Max send time: 0<BR>01/11/08 =
+00:14:59 INF:=20
+static const char *OtherSideAssociations[] =3D {<BR>01/11/08 00:14:59 =
+INF:&nbsp;=20
+"AA",<BR>01/11/08 00:14:59 INF:&nbsp; "RA",<BR>01/11/08 00:14:59 =
+INF:&nbsp;=20
+"RAA",<BR>01/11/08 00:14:59 INF:&nbsp; "VLP",<BR>01/11/08 00:14:59 =
+INF:&nbsp;=20
+"SCS",<BR>01/11/08 00:14:59 INF: };<BR>01/11/08 00:15:03 WRN: Exception =
+will be=20
+launched: Socket error: Connection closed (0)<BR>01/11/08 00:15:03 INF: =
+Report=20
+for blocking socket itsalive.nevrax.org:49999 (195.68.21.196): Max send =
+time: 0=20
+Max recv time: 3831<BR>01/11/08 00:15:03 INF: Max send time: =
+0<BR>01/11/08=20
+00:15:03 INF: addr:192.168.100.4:37000=20
+cookie:'3711608011|2513154061|8'<BR>01/11/08 00:15:24 WRN: Exception =
+will be=20
+launched: Socket error: Connection to 192.168.100.4:37000 =
+(192.168.100.4) failed=20
+(10060: Connection timed-out)<BR>01/11/08 00:15:38 INF: Report for =
+blocking=20
+socket :0 (0.0.0.0): Max send time: 0 Max recv time: 0<BR>01/11/08 =
+00:15:38 INF:=20
+Max send time: 0<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am running the release version.&nbsp; =
+And when I=20
+start the client, why it said "Snowballs 1", but not "Snowballs =
+2".&nbsp; Is=20
+this correct?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have set up a server on a Linux =
+machine.&nbsp;=20
+But when I try to connect to it, there is an error saying that there is =
+no front=20
+end service running.&nbsp; Then I try to start "sno_frontend", but it =
+just say=20
+cannot locate "libnelnet.so" (??? I forgot what's the file name, I am =
+not around=20
+the Linux machine right now).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks!!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wilson</DIV></FONT>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C167EF.B194ACC0--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Nov  7 15:01:12 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA7E19U67535
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 15:01:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA7Du4A88602
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:56:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003901c16793$f127dee0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001001c16793$7eb0e460$dd3aa4cb@CO3005935A>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 14:56:04 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Wilson,
+
+>I have just got the snowball2 client running.  I try to connect to the
+server (itsalive.nevrax.org) that you mentioned in last email.  But I either
+receive a 10051:network is unreachable, or 10060: Connection timed-out.
+
+Normal, it was a problem in the linx configuration, it's now fixed and
+should work fine.
+
+> I am running the release version.  And when I start the client, why it
+said "Snowballs 1", but not "Snowballs 2".  Is this correct?
+
+Okay, It's the first version of the new snowballs. We rewrite it from
+scratch so we call it snowballs 2 but it's the first version. Anyway, it's
+the new snowballs :)
+
+>I have set up a server on a Linux machine.  But when I try to connect to
+it, there is an error saying that there is no front end service running.
+
+Right, the frontend crashed so no other frontend was available (I relaunch
+it).
+
+> Then I try to start "sno_frontend", but it just say cannot locate
+"libnelnet.so" (??? I forgot what's the file name, I am not around the Linux
+machine right now).
+
+I think the problem is that you don't put the directory where the os can
+find the dynamic library libnelnet. You have to set it in the
+LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Nov  7 18:00:52 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA7H0pU68675
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:00:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id fA7GtoA91614
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:55:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fA7GthG11400
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:55:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:55:43 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Cannot start server
+Message-ID: <20011107175543.A11377@nevrax.com>
+References: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE4@pop3.powerlan.com.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE4@pop3.powerlan.com.au>; from WLeung@powerlan.com.au on Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 12:14:29PM +1100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+I made some bugfix today in the configuration scripts of NeL and
+Snowballs 2 that could fix your problem. The fix will be available on
+the public CVS tonigth ...
+
+If it didn't fix your problem, send me the gcc error message, please ?
+thanks :-)
+
+WLeung@powerlan.com.au wrote:
+> machine.
+> I did have a go on trying to compile the client on Linux, with gcc2.96x, but
+> I received a compile error saying that it cannot reference to
+> "libnel3d.so"...
+> 
+> I read the mailing-archive at 2001-March, it was explained that this problem
+> causes by inline function with gcc, and someone said they have fixed this
+> problem.  But I am stilling have the same error.  Could you tell me how to
+> fix this?
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Wed Nov  7 18:22:01 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA7HM0U68816
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:22:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D3A132
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed,  7 Nov 2001 18:17:00 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3BE96C87.DD8F1337@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 18:16:55 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] STL question
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Do you still recommend STLport 4.0 for Linux compilation ? Or 4.5, or latest
+version (STLport-1031) ? I personally encountered bugs in the post-4.5 beta,
+so I'm a bit wondering how your big pile of code hanles it with 4.0 ? :)
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Nov  7 18:44:53 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA7HioU68980
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:44:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA7HdlA92299
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:39:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000901c167b3$318aa020$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <3BE96C87.DD8F1337@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STL question
+Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:39:46 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Do you still recommend STLport 4.0 for Linux compilation ? Or 4.5, or
+latest
+> version (STLport-1031) ? I personally encountered bugs in the post-4.5
+beta,
+> so I'm a bit wondering how your big pile of code hanles it with 4.0 ? :)
+
+On windows, I work with STLPort 4.5 (Current release version : 4.5 (Sep 08,
+2001)) and other people you the old one 4.0.
+On linux, the 2 versions should work, if not, you can send us bug report, we
+ll fix them.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From dee115@optushome.com.au Thu Nov  8 12:11:56 2001
+Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.232])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA8BBqU74452
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:11:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from dee115@optushome.com.au)
+Received: from CO3005935A (c728.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [203.164.58.221])
+	by mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fA8B6hJ29974
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:06:43 +1100
+Message-ID: <000f01c1684d$d8e4fa60$dd3aa4cb@CO3005935A>
+From: "Dee" <dee115@optushome.com.au>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:06:50 +1100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C168AA.0C2DC620"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Sound and OpenAL
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C168AA.0C2DC620
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi
+
+I have got the server and client running with no problem.  But when I =
+play snowball, there is no sound...
+
+I compiled the client on VC6, and I got the following error when compile =
+the open_al:
+
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D
+Compiling...=20
+buffer_al.cpp=20
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'EAXSetProp'
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found=20
+listener_al.cpp=20
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'EAXSetProp'
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found=20
+sound_driver_al.cpp=20
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'EAXSetProp'
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found=20
+source_al.cpp=20
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'EAXSetProp'
+C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found=20
+Error executing cl.exe.=20
+nel_drv_openal_win.dll - 8 error(s), 0 warning(s)=20
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D
+I ignore this error and just go ahead with my client.  Is that why my =
+client does not have any sound?
+Thanks.
+
+Wilson
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C168AA.0C2DC620
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have got the server and client =
+running with no=20
+problem.&nbsp; But when I play snowball, there is no =
+sound...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I compiled the client on VC6, and I got =
+the=20
+following error when compile the open_al:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Compiling... <BR>buffer_al.cpp=20
+<BR>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error=20
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'EAXSetProp'</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(6=
+0) :=20
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found <BR>listener_al.cpp=20
+<BR>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error=20
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'EAXSetProp'</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(6=
+0) :=20
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found <BR>sound_driver_al.cpp=20
+<BR>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error=20
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'EAXSetProp'</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(6=
+0) :=20
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found <BR>source_al.cpp=20
+<BR>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) : =
+error=20
+C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'EAXSetProp'</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(6=
+0) :=20
+fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found <BR>Error executing=20
+cl.exe.</FONT> </DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_drv_openal_win.dll - 8 error(s), 0=20
+warning(s)</FONT> </DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I ignore this error and just go ahead =
+with my=20
+client.&nbsp; Is that why my client does not have any =
+sound?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wilson</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C168AA.0C2DC620--
+
+
+From cado@nevrax.com Thu Nov  8 12:44:18 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA8BiGU74623
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:44:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id fA8BdBA98901
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:39:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <3BEA6EDF.DB6F3FAA@nevrax.com>
+Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:39:11 +0100
+From: Olivier Cado <cado@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I)
+X-Accept-Language: fr,en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Sound and OpenAL
+References: <000f01c1684d$d8e4fa60$dd3aa4cb@CO3005935A>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+> Dee wrote:
+> I have got the server and client running with no problem.  But when I
+> play snowball, there is no sound...
+
+Currently, there is no sound in Snowballs.
+ 
+> I compiled the client on VC6, and I got the following error when
+> compile the open_al:
+> 
+> ===============================================================================
+> Compiling...
+> buffer_al.cpp
+> C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) :
+> error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'EAXSetProp'
+> C:\snowball\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60) :
+> fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+(...)
+
+The sound engine is currently not necessary to run Snowballs.
+
+But if you want to compile it for your own project (or to test
+the 'sound_sources' sample), you need to install OpenAL and EAX
+(get OpenAl from http://www.openal.org and EAX from
+http://developer.creative.com/GAMES/DC_D&H_Games-Home.asp)
+and to configure the following settings (the examples are given
+for my configuration):
+
+Include paths needed:
+- OpenAL base platform dir (C:\NETSHARE\OPENAL\WIN)
+- OpenAL include dir (C:\NETSHARE\OPENAL\WIN\AL)
+- EAX include dir (C:\NETSHARE\CREATIVE LABS\EAX 2.0 EXTENSIONS SDK\INCLUDE)
+- NeL src dir (R:\CODE\NEL\SRC)
+
+Library paths needed:
+- OpenAL .lib location (C:\Netshare\openal\win\openal32\release)
+- OpenAL UT .lib location (C:\Netshare\openal\win\alut\release)
+- EAX .lib location (C:\NETSHARE\CREATIVE LABS\EAX 2.0 EXTENSIONS SDK\LIBS)
+
+At runtime, the user needs openal32.dll and eax.dll
+(usually in the system directory).
+
+You will find more info in the document at
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/nel_sound.html
+as soon as this document is back online.
+
+Note: EAX is currently supported under Windows only, but
+the sound engine works under Linux (with no support of
+environmental effects) yet.
+
+Regards,
+Olivier Cado
+-- 
+Olivier Cado
+      Nevrax   http://www.nevrax.com
+         NeL   http://www.nevrax.org
+
+From dee115@optushome.com.au Thu Nov  8 13:11:29 2001
+Received: from mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au [203.2.75.172])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA8CBOU74792
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:11:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from dee115@optushome.com.au)
+Received: from optushome.com.au (c728.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [203.164.58.221])
+	by mail012.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id fA8C6Eu19628
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:06:14 +1100
+Message-ID: <3BEB1E0C.5C2D0417@optushome.com.au>
+Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 11:06:37 +1100
+From: dee115 <dee115@optushome.com.au>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+When I tried to compile Nel3d in Linux, I got the following error:
+
+make[3]: Entering directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/nel/src/3d'
+/bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.
+-I../../include    -I../../src -I/usr/include/freetype2
+-I/home/snowball/STLport-4.0/stlport -O3   -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -c water_model.cpp
+rm -f .libs/water_model.lo
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../src
+-I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/home/snowball/STLport-4.0/stlport -O3
+-Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include
+-Wp,-MD,.deps/water_model.pp -c water_model.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o
+.libs/water_model.lo
+In file included from water_model.cpp:29:
+../../src/3d/water_height_map.h:127:6: warning: no newline at end of
+file
+../../src/3d/water_height_map.h:127:6: warning: no newline at end of
+file
+water_model.cpp: In method `void NL3D::CWaterRenderObs::traverse
+(NL3D::IObs *)':
+water_model.cpp:183: no match for `NL3D::IDriver *& !=
+NLMISC::CSmartPtr<NL3D::IDriver> &'
+make[3]: *** [water_model.lo] Error 1
+make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/nel/src/3d'
+make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/nel/src/3d'
+make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/nel/src'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+
+When I remove all things which related to water_*.* from register3d,
+scene, and the Makefile, then everything is working...
+
+Thanks,
+
+Wilson
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Nov  8 19:29:22 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA8ITJU76575
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:29:20 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495A9A8
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  8 Nov 2001 19:24:15 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3BEACDCA.42462CD7@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:24:10 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+ boundary="------------93594FC19AC601BF95116088"
+Subject: [Nel] Linux build
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+--------------93594FC19AC601BF95116088
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+* Makefile.am's still lacking some source files. Attached a patch against
+  src/misc/Makefile.am and src/3d/Makefile.am (needed at least to build
+  Snowballs2).
+
+* Snowballs2 might not have sound support (I just read it on the ML) but
+  it requires Nelsound support. I now build NeL with default, + sound (and
+  no AI).
+
+* Running the Snowballs2 client, I have this good old bug :
+
+$ ./src/snowballs
+INF23282 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs 1
+WRN23282 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glDrawElements
+WRN23282 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+Aborted
+
+$ nm -D /usr/lib/libGL.so|grep glDrawElements
+0003c2c2 T glDrawElements
+
+If you have any idea ... I'll try to investigate the pb. BTW: client.cpp 145,
+what about 'Snowballs _2_' ? :)
+--------------93594FC19AC601BF95116088
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
+ name="am_patch"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: inline;
+ filename="am_patch"
+
+Index: nel/src/misc/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/misc/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.32
+diff -c -r1.32 Makefile.am
+*** nel/src/misc/Makefile.am	5 Nov 2001 16:08:20 -0000	1.32
+--- nel/src/misc/Makefile.am	8 Nov 2001 18:25:05 -0000
+***************
+*** 9,15 ****
+  lib_LTLIBRARIES       = libnelmisc.la
+  
+  libnelmisc_la_SOURCES = aabbox.cpp                         \
+! 			bit_mem_stream.cpp		   \
+                          bit_set.cpp                        \
+                          bitmap.cpp                         \
+                          block_memory.cpp                   \
+--- 9,15 ----
+  lib_LTLIBRARIES       = libnelmisc.la
+  
+  libnelmisc_la_SOURCES = aabbox.cpp                         \
+!                         bit_mem_stream.cpp		   \
+                          bit_set.cpp                        \
+                          bitmap.cpp                         \
+                          block_memory.cpp                   \
+***************
+*** 28,34 ****
+                          events.cpp                         \
+                          file.cpp                           \
+                          geom_ext.cpp                       \
+! 			heap_memory.cpp                    \
+                          i_xml.cpp                          \
+                          i18n.cpp                           \
+                          line.cpp                           \
+--- 28,34 ----
+                          events.cpp                         \
+                          file.cpp                           \
+                          geom_ext.cpp                       \
+!                         heap_memory.cpp                    \
+                          i_xml.cpp                          \
+                          i18n.cpp                           \
+                          line.cpp                           \
+***************
+*** 52,57 ****
+--- 52,58 ----
+                          time_nl.cpp                        \
+                          triangle.cpp                       \
+                          uv.cpp                             \
++                         value_smoother.cpp                 \
+                          vector.cpp                         \
+                          vector_2d.cpp                      \
+                          vector_2f.cpp                      \
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.54
+diff -c -r1.54 Makefile.am
+*** nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	7 Nov 2001 17:06:10 -0000	1.54
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	8 Nov 2001 18:25:05 -0000
+***************
+*** 54,59 ****
+--- 54,61 ----
+                         coarse_mesh_manager.h               \
+                         computed_string.cpp                 \
+                         computed_string.h                   \
++                        deform_2d.cpp                       \
++                        deform_2d.h                         \
+                         driver.cpp                          \
+                         driver.h                            \
+                         driver_material_inline.h            \
+***************
+*** 94,99 ****
+--- 96,105 ----
+                         landscape.h                         \
+                         landscape_collision_grid.cpp        \
+                         landscape_collision_grid.h          \
++                        landscape_def.cpp                   \
++                        landscape_def.h                     \
++                        landscape_face_vector_manager.cpp   \
++                        landscape_face_vector_manager.h     \
+                         landscapeig_manager.cpp             \
+                         landscape_model.cpp                 \
+                         landscape_model.h                   \
+***************
+*** 101,106 ****
+--- 107,114 ----
+                         landscape_profile.h                 \
+                         landscape_user.cpp                  \
+                         landscape_user.h                    \
++                        landscape_vegetable_block.cpp       \
++                        landscape_vegetable_block.h         \
+                         landscapevb_allocator.cpp           \
+                         landscapevb_allocator.h             \
+                         landscapevb_info.cpp                \
+***************
+*** 127,132 ****
+--- 135,142 ----
+                         mesh_geom.h                         \
+                         mesh_instance.cpp                   \
+                         mesh_instance.h                     \
++                        mesh_morpher.cpp                    \
++                        mesh_morpher.h                      \
+                         mesh_mrm.cpp                        \
+                         mesh_mrm.h                          \
+                         mesh_mrm_instance.cpp               \
+***************
+*** 149,154 ****
+--- 159,166 ----
+                         mrm_mesh.h                          \
+                         mrm_parameters.cpp                  \
+                         mrm_parameters.h                    \
++                        noise_value.cpp                     \
++                        noise_value.h                       \
+                         nelu.cpp                            \
+                         nelu.h                              \
+                         ordering_table.h                    \
+***************
+*** 169,174 ****
+--- 181,187 ----
+                         patch_rdr_pass.cpp                  \
+                         patch_rdr_pass.h                    \
+                         patch_render.cpp                    \
++                        patch_vegetable.cpp                 \
+                         patchuv_locator.cpp                 \
+                         patchuv_locator.h                   \
+                         plane_basis_maker.h                 \
+***************
+*** 220,225 ****
+--- 233,240 ----
+                         ps_sound.h                          \
+                         ps_sound.cpp                        \
+                         quad_grid.h                         \
++                        quad_grid_clip_cluster.cpp          \
++                        quad_grid_clip_cluster.h            \
+                         quad_grid_clip_manager.cpp          \
+                         quad_grid_clip_manager.h            \
+                         quad_effect.h                       \
+***************
+*** 251,260 ****
+--- 266,279 ----
+                         skeleton_user.h                     \
+                         skeleton_weight.cpp                 \
+                         skeleton_weight.h                   \
++                        skip_model.cpp                      \
++                        skip_model.h                        \
+                         stripifier.h                        \
+                         stripifier.cpp                      \
+                         tess_block.cpp                      \
+                         tess_block.h                        \
++                        tess_face_priority_list.cpp         \
++                        tess_face_priority_list.h           \
+                         tess_list.cpp                       \
+                         tess_list.h                         \
+                         tessellation.cpp                    \
+***************
+*** 299,304 ****
+--- 318,325 ----
+                         tile_lumel.h                        \
+                         tile_noise_map.cpp                  \
+                         tile_noise_map.h                    \
++                        tile_vegetable_desc.cpp             \
++                        tile_vegetable_desc.h               \
+                         track.cpp                           \
+                         track.h                             \
+                         track_bezier.h                      \
+***************
+*** 316,321 ****
+--- 337,356 ----
+                         transformable_user.cpp              \
+                         transformable_user.h                \
+                         trav_scene.h                        \
++                        vegetable.cpp                       \
++                        vegetable.h                         \
++                        vegetable_clip_block.cpp            \
++                        vegetable_clip_block.h              \
++                        vegetable_def.cpp                   \
++                        vegetable_def.h                     \
++                        vegetable_instance_group.cpp        \
++                        vegetable_instance_group.h          \
++                        vegetable_manager.cpp               \
++                        vegetable_manager.h                 \
++                        vegetable_shape.cpp                 \
++                        vegetable_shape.h                   \
++                        vegetablevb_allocator.cpp           \
++                        vegetablevb_allocator.h             \
+                         vertex_buffer.cpp                   \
+                         vertex_buffer.h                     \
+                         vertex_buffer_hard.cpp              \
+***************
+*** 331,336 ****
+--- 366,373 ----
+                         visual_collision_manager.h          \
+                         visual_collision_manager_user.cpp   \
+                         visual_collision_manager_user.h     \
++                        water_height_map.cpp                \
++                        water_height_map.h                  \
+                         water_model.cpp                     \
+                         water_model.h                       \
+                         water_pool_manager.cpp              \
+
+--------------93594FC19AC601BF95116088--
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Nov  8 19:51:33 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA8IpVU76709
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:51:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4CAA8
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  8 Nov 2001 19:46:31 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3BEAD302.DA6943D@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:46:26 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I solved the GL driver loader pb : it was not linked against libGL. Attached the
+one-liner patch to nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am to fix this.
+
+I now have the splash screen, and then a nice segfault :). My client.cfg points
+to a fresh data tarball (the URL was on this ML a few days ago). So I'll guess
+I'll have to investigate again. I didn't compile in debug mode (too long, not
+enough disk space for this task), so the trace is vague :
+
+Starting program: /home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/code/snowballs2/client/src/snowballs 
+[New Thread 1024 (LWP 27970)]
+INF27970 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs 1
+[New Thread 2049 (LWP 27971)]
+[New Thread 1026 (LWP 27972)]
+[New Thread 2051 (LWP 27973)]
+
+Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+[Switching to Thread 1024 (LWP 27970)]
+0x40a8ced6 in _STL::_Rb_global<bool>::_M_increment () from
+/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/lib/libstlport_gcc.so
+(gdb) bt
+#0  0x40a8ced6 in _STL::_Rb_global<bool>::_M_increment () from
+/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/STLport/lib/libstlport_gcc.so
+#1  0x405d64ec in NL3D::CScene::createInstance () from /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so.0
+#2  0x405d9e24 in NL3D::CInstanceGroup::addToScene () from /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so.0
+#3  0x4051272b in NL3D::CInstanceGroupUser::addToScene () from /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so.0
+#4  0x405133f5 in NL3D::CInstanceGroupUser::addToScene () from /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so.0
+#5  0x080678d7 in initLandscape ()
+#6  0x08052ea0 in main ()
+#7  0x40bab65f in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Nov  8 20:06:34 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA8J6PU76811
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:06:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+Message-ID: <3BEAD678.EEEE43DC@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 20:01:12 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d
+References: <3BEB1E0C.5C2D0417@optushome.com.au>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+dee115 wrote:
+> 
+> When I remove all things which related to water_*.* from register3d,
+> scene, and the Makefile, then everything is working...
+
+Hello,
+
+I suggest you upgrade your gcc : check the version with 'gcc --version',
+you should have a 2.95.4 (was released this summer). This is at least
+related to the 'no newline at end of file' warning which is fixed in gcc
+since then (the preprocessor is smart enough to add the necessary newline).
+I personnally use STLport 4.5 and don't have trouble compiling the
+water_* stuff : try this if the gcc upgrade don't fix it.
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Nov  8 20:07:14 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fA8J7DU76825
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+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC43723
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+Message-ID: <3BEAD6B0.493943D@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 20:02:08 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running
+References: <3BEAD302.DA6943D@zerodeux.net>
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+ boundary="------------0D77984EA8A4BC9AF50862BD"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+--------------0D77984EA8A4BC9AF50862BD
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+OK, I forgot the patch, sorry ! :))
+--------------0D77984EA8A4BC9AF50862BD
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
+ name="opengldrv.patch"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: inline;
+ filename="opengldrv.patch"
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.7
+diff -c -r1.7 Makefile.am
+*** nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am	29 Oct 2001 10:51:00 -0000	1.7
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am	8 Nov 2001 18:45:39 -0000
+***************
+*** 23,28 ****
+--- 23,29 ----
+  
+  AM_CXXFLAGS                  = -I$(top_srcdir)/src
+  
++ libnel_drv_opengl_la_LIBADD  = -lGL
+  
+  # End of Makefile.am
+  
+
+--------------0D77984EA8A4BC9AF50862BD--
+
+
+From WLeung@powerlan.com.au Fri Nov  9 22:32:37 2001
+Received: from PLT_SMTP_LCV.lcv.pwr ([203.25.108.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fA9LWWU85337
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+From: WLeung@powerlan.com.au
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Cannot start server
+Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:26:13 +1100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C16965.28343CD0"
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+
+This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
+this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
+
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C16965.28343CD0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="ISO-8859-1"
+
+Hi, I have just compiled the client and get the same error, here is the gcc
+error:
+
+[root@localhost client]# make
+Making all in src
+make[1]: Entering directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/snowballs2/client/src'
+c++ -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/stlport -O3
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include/  -o snowballs  animation.o
+camera.o client.o commands.o compass.o entities.o graph.o interface.o
+landscape.o lens_flare.o mouse_listener.o network.o pacs.o physics.o radar.o
+sound.o -L/usr/lib -lfreetype -L/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/lib
+-L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lnelpacs -lstlport_gcc
+camera.o: In function `initCamera(void)':
+camera.o(.text+0x3b8): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CViewport::CViewport(void)'
+camera.o(.text+0x3d1): undefined reference to `NL3D::CViewport::init(float,
+float, float, float)'
+client.o: In function `main':
+client.o(.text+0xfea): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::createDriver(void)'
+client.o: In function `displayLoadingState(char *)':
+client.o(.text+0x382d): undefined reference to `NL3D::CFrustum::init(float,
+float, float, float, float, float, bool)'
+commands.o: In function `updateCommands(void)':
+commands.o(.text+0x1a5f): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+compass.o: In function `updateCompass(void)':
+compass.o(.text+0x855): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D43(void)'
+graph.o: In function `CGraph::render(void)':
+graph.o(.text+0x79): undefined reference to `NL3D::CFrustum::init(float,
+float, float, float, float, float, bool)'
+interface.o: In function `updateInterface(void)':
+interface.o(.text+0x27): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+landscape.o: In function `initLandscape(void)':
+landscape.o(.text+0x1c65): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UInstanceGroup::createInstanceGroup(_STL::basic_string<char,
+_STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const &)'
+landscape.o(.text+0x1e7b): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::ULight::createLight(void)'
+lens_flare.o: In function `CLensFlare::show(void)':
+lens_flare.o(.text+0x296): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+lens_flare.o(.text+0x35d): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CFrustum::project(NLMISC::CVector const &) const'
+lens_flare.o: In function `updateLensFlare(void)':
+lens_flare.o(.text+0xd5f): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CFrustum::project(NLMISC::CVector const &) const'
+lens_flare.o(.text+0xf25): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+mouse_listener.o: In function `C3dMouseListener::C3dMouseListener(void)':
+mouse_listener.o(.text+0x40): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CViewport::CViewport(void)'
+mouse_listener.o(.text+0x8c): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CViewport::initFullScreen(void)'
+mouse_listener.o(.text+0xb2): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CFrustum::init(float, float, float, float, bool)'
+radar.o: In function `displayRadar(void)':
+radar.o(.text+0x9b): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+radar.o(.text+0x343): undefined reference to `NL3D::CFrustum::init(float,
+float, float, float, float, float, bool)'
+radar.o: In function `displayLittleRadar(void)':
+radar.o(.text+0xf72): undefined reference to
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+radar.o(.text+0x116a): undefined reference to `NL3D::CFrustum::init(float,
+float, float, float, float, float, bool)'
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+make[1]: *** [snowballs] Error 1
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/snowballs2/client/src'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+
+
+For you informaiton, I am using gcc2.96, I tried both STLPORT 4.5 and 4.0
+but I still got the same error.
+
+Cheers,
+
+Wilson
+
+
+>Hello,
+>
+>I made some bugfix today in the configuration scripts of NeL and
+>Snowballs 2 that could fix your problem. The fix will be available on
+>the public CVS tonigth ...
+>
+>If it didn't fix your problem, send me the gcc error message, please ?
+>thanks :-)
+
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+<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
+5.5.2653.12">
+<TITLE>[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</TITLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi, I have just compiled the client and get the same =
+error, here is the gcc error:</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>[root@localhost client]# make</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Making all in src</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>make[1]: Entering directory =
+`/home/cvssnowball/code/snowballs2/client/src'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>c++ -I/usr/include/freetype2 =
+-I/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/stlport -O3&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include/&nbsp; -o snowballs&nbsp; =
+animation.o camera.o client.o commands.o compass.o entities.o graph.o =
+interface.o landscape.o lens_flare.o mouse_listener.o network.o pacs.o =
+physics.o radar.o sound.o -L/usr/lib -lfreetype =
+-L/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/lib&nbsp; -L/usr/X11R6/lib =
+-L/usr/local/lib -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lnelpacs -lstlport_gcc</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>camera.o: In function `initCamera(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>camera.o(.text+0x3b8): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CViewport::CViewport(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>camera.o(.text+0x3d1): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CViewport::init(float, float, float, float)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>client.o: In function `main':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>client.o(.text+0xfea): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::createDriver(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>client.o: In function `displayLoadingState(char =
+*)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>client.o(.text+0x382d): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CFrustum::init(float, float, float, float, float, float, =
+bool)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>commands.o: In function =
+`updateCommands(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>commands.o(.text+0x1a5f): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>compass.o: In function `updateCompass(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>compass.o(.text+0x855): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D43(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>graph.o: In function `CGraph::render(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>graph.o(.text+0x79): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CFrustum::init(float, float, float, float, float, float, =
+bool)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>interface.o: In function =
+`updateInterface(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>interface.o(.text+0x27): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>landscape.o: In function =
+`initLandscape(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>landscape.o(.text+0x1c65): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UInstanceGroup::createInstanceGroup(_STL::basic_string&lt;char, =
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;, _STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; const =
+&amp;)'</FONT></P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>landscape.o(.text+0x1e7b): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::ULight::createLight(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lens_flare.o: In function =
+`CLensFlare::show(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lens_flare.o(.text+0x296): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lens_flare.o(.text+0x35d): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CFrustum::project(NLMISC::CVector const &amp;) const'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lens_flare.o: In function =
+`updateLensFlare(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lens_flare.o(.text+0xd5f): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CFrustum::project(NLMISC::CVector const &amp;) const'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>lens_flare.o(.text+0xf25): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>mouse_listener.o: In function =
+`C3dMouseListener::C3dMouseListener(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>mouse_listener.o(.text+0x40): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CViewport::CViewport(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>mouse_listener.o(.text+0x8c): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CViewport::initFullScreen(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>mouse_listener.o(.text+0xb2): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CFrustum::init(float, float, float, float, bool)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>radar.o: In function `displayRadar(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>radar.o(.text+0x9b): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>radar.o(.text+0x343): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CFrustum::init(float, float, float, float, float, float, =
+bool)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>radar.o: In function =
+`displayLittleRadar(void)':</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>radar.o(.text+0xf72): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>radar.o(.text+0x116a): undefined reference to =
+`NL3D::CFrustum::init(float, float, float, float, float, float, =
+bool)'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>collect2: ld returned 1 exit status</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>make[1]: *** [snowballs] Error 1</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>make[1]: Leaving directory =
+`/home/cvssnowball/code/snowballs2/client/src'</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1</FONT>
+</P>
+<BR>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>For you informaiton, I am using gcc2.96, I tried both =
+STLPORT 4.5 and 4.0 but I still got the same error.</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers,</FONT>
+</P>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Wilson</FONT>
+</P>
+<BR>
+
+<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Hello,</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;I made some bugfix today in the configuration =
+scripts of NeL and</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Snowballs 2 that could fix your problem. The fix =
+will be available on</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;the public CVS tonigth ...</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;If it didn't fix your problem, send me the gcc =
+error message, please ?</FONT>
+<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;thanks :-)</FONT>
+</P>
+
+</BODY>
+</HTML>
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C16965.28343CD0--
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Nov 12 10:21:47 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAC9LjU08274
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:21:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003a01c16b5a$bc3df410$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecoart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE9@pop3.powerlan.com.au>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Cannot start server
+Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:16:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/snowballs2/client/src'
+> c++ -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/stlport -O3
+> -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include/  -o snowballs  animation.o
+> camera.o client.o commands.o compass.o entities.o graph.o interface.o
+> landscape.o lens_flare.o mouse_listener.o network.o pacs.o physics.o
+radar.o
+> sound.o -L/usr/lib -lfreetype -L/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/lib
+> -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lnelpacs -lstlport_g
+cc
+
+Errors means that it doesn't find 3d library and there's no -lnel3d in the
+c++ command above, so the problem comes from that.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Nov 12 15:08:26 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fACE8NU10299
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+Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:02:51 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Cannot start server
+Message-ID: <20011112150251.A8437@nevrax.com>
+References: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE9@pop3.powerlan.com.au>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <70456BFD9E18D511B8C40008C74C244E0EEEE9@pop3.powerlan.com.au>; from WLeung@powerlan.com.au on Sat, Nov 10, 2001 at 08:26:13AM +1100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Wilson,
+
+This error is coming from some missing source files in the Makefile.am
+of NeL, that was fixed on friday, you should update NeL and recompile it.
+
+
+WLeung@powerlan.com.au wrote:
+> Hi, I have just compiled the client and get the same error, here is the gcc
+> error:
+> 
+> [root@localhost client]# make
+> Making all in src
+> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/cvssnowball/code/snowballs2/client/src'
+> c++ -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/stlport -O3
+> -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include/  -o snowballs  animation.o
+> camera.o client.o commands.o compass.o entities.o graph.o interface.o
+> landscape.o lens_flare.o mouse_listener.o network.o pacs.o physics.o radar.o
+> sound.o -L/usr/lib -lfreetype -L/home/snowball/STLport-4.5/lib
+> -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lnelpacs -lstlport_gcc
+> camera.o: In function `initCamera(void)':
+> camera.o(.text+0x3b8): undefined reference to
+> `NL3D::CViewport::CViewport(void)'
+> camera.o(.text+0x3d1): undefined reference to `NL3D::CViewport::init(float,
+> float, float, float)'
+>
+> [...]
+> 
+> For you informaiton, I am using gcc2.96, I tried both STLPORT 4.5 and 4.0
+> but I still got the same error.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Nov 12 15:12:06 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fACEC2U10339
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:06:34 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running
+Message-ID: <20011112150634.B8437@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BEAD302.DA6943D@zerodeux.net> <3BEAD6B0.493943D@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BEAD6B0.493943D@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 08:02:08PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello Vincent,
+
+I just commit the changes,
+
+Thanks for your help and there is no problem for the fact that your
+forgot the patch ;-)
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> OK, I forgot the patch, sorry ! :))
+>
+> [...]
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Nov 12 15:37:04 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:31:22 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux build
+Message-ID: <20011112153121.C8437@nevrax.com>
+References: <3BEACDCA.42462CD7@zerodeux.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3BEACDCA.42462CD7@zerodeux.net>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Thu, Nov 08, 2001 at 07:24:10PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> * Makefile.am's still lacking some source files. Attached a patch against
+>   src/misc/Makefile.am and src/3d/Makefile.am (needed at least to build
+>   Snowballs2).
+
+We fixed that ... sorry :-(
+
+> * Snowballs2 might not have sound support (I just read it on the ML) but
+>   it requires Nelsound support. I now build NeL with default, + sound (and
+>   no AI).
+
+We start coding some dound support for Snowballs 2, but we decide to
+stop the development to finish it later, sorry about that ...
+
+> * Running the Snowballs2 client, I have this good old bug :
+> 
+> $ ./src/snowballs
+> INF23282 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs 1
+> WRN23282 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glDrawElements
+> WRN23282 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+> Aborted
+> 
+> $ nm -D /usr/lib/libGL.so|grep glDrawElements
+> 0003c2c2 T glDrawElements
+>
+> If you have any idea ... I'll try to investigate the pb.
+
+I'm going to take a look on that ...
+
+> BTW: client.cpp 145, what about 'Snowballs _2_' ? :)
+
+ouch ! ... done. :-)
+
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From ruud@rentashop.nl Thu Nov 15 17:18:44 2001
+Received: from mail.rentashop.nl (IDENT:root@mail.rentashop.nl [212.72.39.141])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:19:00 +0100
+Message-ID: <005f01c16df0$aa360490$0800a8c0@wasp>
+From: "Ruud Verdonck" <ruud@rentashop.nl>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 17:14:54 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01C16DF9.0B9A2420"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Landscape
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C16DF9.0B9A2420
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+i was wondering, is there a way to make my own landscape and models for =
+snowballs?
+i would like to see what Nel can do with diff. landscape settings
+
+Ruud Verdonck
+
+------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C16DF9.0B9A2420
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i was wondering, is there a way to make =
+my own=20
+landscape and models for snowballs?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i would like to see what Nel can do =
+with diff.=20
+landscape settings</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ruud =
+Verdonck</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_005C_01C16DF9.0B9A2420--
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Nov 16 17:08:30 2001
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+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fAGG3GA97586
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:03:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <012001c16eb8$497b74f0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <005f01c16df0$aa360490$0800a8c0@wasp>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscape
+Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:03:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011D_01C16EC0.AB309AB0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C16EC0.AB309AB0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+Take a look at the post with the title "Landscape generation pipeline" =
+date of the 19 / 10 / 2001.
+This long post explain how generate and process landscape data.
+For the model, you have to compile the NeL 3dsmax plugins and export =
+your own models with them.
+
+Have fun. :)
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Ruud Verdonck=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:14 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] Landscape
+
+
+  Hi,
+  =20
+  i was wondering, is there a way to make my own landscape and models =
+for snowballs?
+  i would like to see what Nel can do with diff. landscape settings
+  =20
+  Ruud Verdonck
+
+------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C16EC0.AB309AB0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Take a look at the post with the title =
+"Landscape=20
+generation pipeline" date of the 19 / 10 / 2001.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This long post explain how generate and =
+process=20
+landscape data.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For the model, you have to compile the =
+NeL 3dsmax=20
+plugins and export your own models with them.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have fun. :)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cyril Corvazier</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A href=3D"mailto:ruud@rentashop.nl" title=3Druud@rentashop.nl>Ruud =
+Verdonck</A>=20
+  </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
+href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org"=20
+  title=3Dnel@nevrax.org>nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 15, =
+2001 5:14=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Landscape</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i was wondering, is there a way to =
+make my own=20
+  landscape and models for snowballs?</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i would like to see what Nel can do =
+with diff.=20
+  landscape settings</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ruud=20
+Verdonck</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_011D_01C16EC0.AB309AB0--
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Nov 16 23:16:05 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAGMG5p11012
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:16:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A055186D
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:11:03 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3BF58EF0.D827BC3@zerodeux.net>
+Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:10:56 +0100
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.12 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en, fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Linux build
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Minor error in NeL public CVS:
+
+src/3d/water_shape.h:193: class `CWaterShape' is implicitly friends with itself
+
+Snowballs2 is still segfaulting in nel3D, if I have 3GB and 1 CPU-hour to compile
+a debug version, I might try to trace the bug...
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Tue Nov 20 10:30:00 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAK9Txp49305
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:29:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fAK9OoA29195
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:24:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000b01c171a5$3dbb1d60$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:25:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] Ryzom screenshot
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi there,
+
+Some screenshots of our internal project are in the "image of the day"
+contest on flipcode.com.
+All is done with NeL.
+
+Take a look at :
+http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=11-19-2001&forum=iotd&id=
+-1
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+---
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Tue Nov 20 14:05:59 2001
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAKD5vp52790
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:05:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA2630019
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:00:46 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <3BFA53FE.24E938C@packetport.com>
+Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:00:46 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Ryzom screenshot
+References: <000b01c171a5$3dbb1d60$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier wrote:
+> Some screenshots of our internal project are in the "image of the day"
+> contest on flipcode.com.
+> All is done with NeL.
+> 
+> Take a look at :
+> http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=11-19-2001&forum=iotd&id=
+> -1
+
+Wooooooh.  Holly cow you guys have been busy!  I've been wondering what
+you guys have been doing with the real project and that sure is proof
+that you guys are not slacking.  Are those mountable creatures you
+have?  I must say, it looks really really nice.  Perhaps one of the few
+good reasons why maybe I _should_ upgrade my graphics card.
+
+  By the way, I've been reading some of your docs on makeing the art
+packs, landscapes etc.  One issue I have is, to generate landscape I
+need 3d Studio Max.  I know I know, if I want to be serious I would have
+a copy but when your trying to do this for fun and on a budget of $0 +
+personal time, you try to find alternative stuff.  I still need to see
+what exactly the landscapeing tools do for 3d Studio Max and if they can
+be replicated for say, Blender as a plugin or script (www.blender.nl)
+but in the mean time I'm going to go back to reading some.
+
+  I must say, I love your transition tile concept, I'm not sure how the
+results of it look on a real project other then with Snowballs but with
+snowballs, It does look good.  It seems easy enough to make a tile
+pack.  It's the generating landscape that evades me at the moment.
+
+  Tony
+Project Leader of I-Really-Wish-I-Could-Make-My-own-MMORPG
+
+From delire@selectparks.net Wed Nov 21 05:10:30 2001
+Received: from laudanum.net (server42.aitcom.net [208.234.0.36])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAL4ATp61305
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 05:10:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from delire@selectparks.net)
+Received: from shoko ([144.137.2.24])
+	by laudanum.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA04045
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:07:27 -0500
+Message-ID: <003801c17241$8f3a2e00$0200a8c0@shoko>
+From: "delire" <delire@selectparks.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:03:59 +1100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C1729D.BF887E70"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] Bezian Vistas
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C1729D.BF887E70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I'm really keen to use your engine for a small multi-user environment - =
+I can't believe what it offers!! Especially the bezian terrains with =
+LOD.
+
+However I need to get some idea whether my goal of mixable 3D / =
+positional audio and a maximum of 64 simultaneous users is actually =
+feasible at this point in the design stage of your product. If so I'd =
+like to begin using it immediately.
+
+Secondly, is there a native editor for the engine, if not can you =
+suggest art packages [3DMAX etc] that are best used?
+
+Cheers,
+
+Julian Oliver
+
+www.selectparks.net
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C1729D.BF887E70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm really keen to use your engine for a small =
+multi-user=20
+environment - I can't believe what it offers!! Especially the bezian =
+terrains=20
+with LOD.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>However I need to get some idea whether my goal of =
+mixable 3D=20
+/ positional audio and a maximum of 64 simultaneous users is actually =
+feasible=20
+at this point in the design stage of your product. If so I'd like to =
+begin using=20
+it immediately.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Secondly, is there a native editor for the engine, =
+if not can=20
+you suggest art packages [3DMAX etc] that are best used?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Julian Oliver</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.selectparks.net">www.selectparks.net</A></FONT></DIV><=
+/DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C1729D.BF887E70--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Wed Nov 21 08:40:12 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fAL7eCp62449
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:40:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 14738 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 08:22:46 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 08:22:46 -0000
+Message-ID: <106901c1725f$08ab2ce0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <003801c17241$8f3a2e00$0200a8c0@shoko>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Bezian Vistas
+Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:35:03 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1066_01C17267.6A5EA4F0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_1066_01C17267.6A5EA4F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I guess that NeL is exactly what you're looking for.=20
+As for the art package.. NeL comes with some custom-made tools included =
+in the library sources and with 3DSMAX plugins, so you're going to need =
+3DSMAX in order to be able to work effectively with NeL.
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: delire=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 5:03 AM
+  Subject: [Nel] Bezian Vistas
+
+
+  I'm really keen to use your engine for a small multi-user environment =
+- I can't believe what it offers!! Especially the bezian terrains with =
+LOD.
+
+  However I need to get some idea whether my goal of mixable 3D / =
+positional audio and a maximum of 64 simultaneous users is actually =
+feasible at this point in the design stage of your product. If so I'd =
+like to begin using it immediately.
+
+  Secondly, is there a native editor for the engine, if not can you =
+suggest art packages [3DMAX etc] that are best used?
+
+  Cheers,
+
+  Julian Oliver
+
+  www.selectparks.net
+
+------=_NextPart_000_1066_01C17267.6A5EA4F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I guess that NeL is exactly what you're =
+looking=20
+for. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the art package.. NeL comes with =
+some=20
+custom-made tools included in the library sources and with 3DSMAX =
+plugins, so=20
+you're going to need 3DSMAX in order to be able to work effectively with =
+
+NeL.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>--<BR>Valerio Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames Italia=20
+Webmaster (<A =
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My=20
+Lab (<A=20
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)<BR></DI=
+V>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Ddelire@selectparks.net=20
+  href=3D"mailto:delire@selectparks.net">delire</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 21, =
+2001 5:03=20
+  AM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Bezian =
+Vistas</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm really keen to use your engine for a small =
+multi-user=20
+  environment - I can't believe what it offers!! Especially the bezian =
+terrains=20
+  with LOD.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>However I need to get some idea whether my goal of =
+mixable=20
+  3D / positional audio and a maximum of 64 simultaneous users is =
+actually=20
+  feasible at this point in the design stage of your product. If so I'd =
+like to=20
+  begin using it immediately.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Secondly, is there a native editor for the engine, =
+if not=20
+  can you suggest art packages [3DMAX etc] that are best =
+used?</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Julian Oliver</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
+  =
+href=3D"http://www.selectparks.net">www.selectparks.net</A></FONT></DIV><=
+/DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_1066_01C17267.6A5EA4F0--
+
+
+From lists@elesi.org Fri Nov 23 22:47:56 2001
+Received: from dci.doncaster.on.ca (dci.doncaster.on.ca [216.187.106.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fANLlsp83462
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 22:47:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lists@elesi.org)
+Received: from there (heath.istop.com [216.187.107.152])
+	by dci.doncaster.on.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA19909
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:42:43 GMT
+Message-Id: <200111232142.VAA19909@dci.doncaster.on.ca>
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Heath Johns <lists@elesi.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:47:14 +0000
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Let me first say how jawdroppingly impressed I am with the work that you 
+folks have accomplished.  Particularly the recent screenshots on flipcode.
+ 
+Having said that, I am *this* close to seeing it run after finally managing 
+to get everything compiled.  FYI, I grabbed everything off of CVS and I'm 
+using Linux.
+
+It starts okay, I get a screen saying 'welcome' with the nel logo, and 
+telling me that it is initialising the landscape, then it goes away.  The 
+term reads:
+
+INF18002 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN18002 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: Path not found for 
+nevrax.tga
+WRN18002 texture_file.cpp 59 : Missing textureFile: nevrax.tga
+WRN18002 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: Path not found for 
+3_AN.ig
+Aborted
+
+I can get by the 'nevrax.tga' one by just using any targa.  But it appears 
+that I definately need the '3_AN.ig' file.  This is nowhere to be found in 
+the CVS repository or the two snowballs data tarballs.
+
+Any help would be appreciated.  I'm very anxious to see how NeL runs.
+
+Regards,
+Heath Johns
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Sat Nov 24 00:14:31 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fANNEVp83891
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:14:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.home (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004E11896
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:09:24 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <200111232142.VAA19909@dci.doncaster.on.ca>
+References: <200111232142.VAA19909@dci.doncaster.on.ca>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/0.99.2 (Preview Release)
+Date: 24 Nov 2001 00:09:20 +0100
+Message-Id: <1006556960.582.2.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Fri, 2001-11-23 at 17:47, Heath Johns wrote:
+> It starts okay, I get a screen saying 'welcome' with the nel logo, and 
+> telling me that it is initialising the landscape, then it goes away.  The 
+> term reads:
+
+Did you fetch the last data pack ?
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs/
+
+
+From lists@elesi.org Sun Nov 25 02:34:44 2001
+Received: from dci.doncaster.on.ca (dci.doncaster.on.ca [216.187.106.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAP1Yip94931
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 02:34:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lists@elesi.org)
+Received: from there (heath.istop.com [216.187.107.152])
+	by dci.doncaster.on.ca (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA06060;
+	Sun, 25 Nov 2001 01:29:31 GMT
+Message-Id: <200111250129.BAA06060@dci.doncaster.on.ca>
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Heath Johns <lists@elesi.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:34:04 +0000
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
+Cc: v.caron@zerodeux.net
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs Segfaults
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+(In response to "Linux: snowballs (almost) running")
+
+> I now have the splash screen, and then a nice segfault :).
+
+I don't know if you are still having this problem, but it is the same one 
+that I've been trying to get around just now (I'm using the latest source 
+from cvs).
+
+My workaround:  comment out lines 423-445 in nel/src/3d/scene.cpp
+
+So it runs now.  There was a huge NeL logo obscuring everything, but I 
+commented out line 369 of snowballs2/client/src/client.cpp and that took care 
+of it.
+
+So now I've got the gnu, and I can move around etc. and the trees show up, 
+but there is no landscape.  Also, it times out if you try to contact 
+itsalive.nevrex.org.
+
+If anyone knows anything about getting the landscape to show up, please let 
+me know, it's the big reason why I'm interested in NeL :)
+
+
+Heath Johns
+
+From return@trafficmagnet.net Sun Nov 25 19:41:20 2001
+Received: from ns4.trafficmagnet.net ([211.101.236.28])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAPIfBp99913
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:41:17 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from return@trafficmagnet.net)
+Received: from sendmail ([211.101.236.29])
+	by ns4.trafficmagnet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA22232
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:36:14 +0800
+Message-Id: <200111251836.CAA22232@ns4.trafficmagnet.net>
+From: Christine Hall <return@trafficmagnet.net>
+To: "nel@nevrax.org" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 2:36:56 +0800
+X-Mailer: CSMTPConnection v2.17
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0e2909db-8998-4be5-af15-440c3a9a5d3d"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Subject: [Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format
+--0e2909db-8998-4be5-af15-440c3a9a5d3d
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1Ì
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<html>
+<head>
+<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
+iso-8859-1">
+<!-- 2.1 --><title></title>
+</head>
+<body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
+<table width=3D"600" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
+  <tr>
+    <td><font face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D=
+"2">Hi<br>
+      <br>
+      I visited <a href=3D"http://www.trafficmagnet.net">WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</a>, =
+and 
+      noticed that you're not listed on some search engines! I think we can =
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+</table>
+</body>
+</html>
+
+--0e2909db-8998-4be5-af15-440c3a9a5d3d--
+
+From nel-list@mindcontrol.org Mon Nov 26 19:05:24 2001
+Received: from barney.sfrn.dnai.com (barney.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.24])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAQI5Mp07679
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:05:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nel-list@mindcontrol.org)
+Received: from sideshow-bob.sfrn.dnai.com (sideshow-bob.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.20])
+	by barney.sfrn.dnai.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id fAQHxxQ94404
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:59:59 -0800 (PST)
+Received: from ns.watte.net (optiplex.b500.com [216.15.97.85])
+	by sideshow-bob.sfrn.dnai.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAQHxJP13521
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:59:19 -0800 (PST)
+	(envelope-from nel-list@mindcontrol.org)
+Received: from JWATTELAP (64-178-80-34.customer.algx.net [64.178.80.34])
+	by ns.watte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04434
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:59:54 -0800
+From: "Nel List" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:59:41 -0800
+Message-ID: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLAENGCOAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+In-Reply-To: <200111261101.fAQB12p05289@www.nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The way to fix this is to make the list server bounce all 
+messages containing HTML or attachments.
+
+>     <td><font face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D=
+> "2">Hi<br>
+>       <br>
+>       I visited <a 
+> href=3D"http://www.trafficmagnet.net">WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</a>, =
+> and 
+>       noticed that you're not listed on some search engines! I 
+> think we can =
+> offer 
+>       you a service which can help you increase traffic and the 
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Mon Nov 26 19:46:46 2001
+Received: from fep13-svc.tin.it (mta13-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.44])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAQIkip07911
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:46:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([62.211.168.66]) by fep13-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20011126184123.UKW25533.fep13-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:41:23 +0100
+Message-ID: <00a001c176a9$ad809400$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLAENGCOAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg
+Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:39:27 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Or just let subscribed users send mail to the mailing list, which is even
+better IMO.
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Nel List" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 6:59 PM
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg
+
+
+>
+> The way to fix this is to make the list server bounce all
+> messages containing HTML or attachments.
+>
+> >     <td><font face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D=
+> > "2">Hi<br>
+> >       <br>
+> >       I visited <a
+> > href=3D"http://www.trafficmagnet.net">WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</a>, =
+> > and
+> >       noticed that you're not listed on some search engines! I
+> > think we can =
+> > offer
+> >       you a service which can help you increase traffic and the
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From laurent.hausermann@naema.org Tue Nov 27 12:01:21 2001
+Received: from montblanc.annet (mailer@[194.206.168.129])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fARB1Ip13793
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:01:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from laurent.hausermann@naema.org)
+Received: by montblanc.annet; id NAA01860; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:32:19 +0100 (CET)
+Message-Id: <200111271232.NAA01860@montblanc.annet>
+From: "Laurent Hausermann" <laurent.hausermann@naema.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:52:08 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] GCC version and Debian Package
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi all,
+
+I have two questions :
+
+ - What gcc version number is required to compile Nel ? I look for this
+information through the documentation without success (in fact, there is not
+a lot of dependancy version required). I have standard Debian potato version
+(2.95.2) and it fails to compile.
+
+ - I think it's a bit tough to compile due to a lot of depedancy ... What
+about creating a Debian (or Redhat if there are redhat's user) package ? If
+anyone can help me, I could begin for the Debian package for testing debian
+version.
+
+Thanks to the nel Team for this great work (I can't compile yet, but it is
+really great ! :)
+
+Regards,
+
+Laurent
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Nov 27 12:09:45 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fARB9ip13873
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:09:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id fARB4WA08413
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:04:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fARB40k39672
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:04:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:04:00 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg
+Message-ID: <20011127120400.A39575@nevrax.com>
+References: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLAENGCOAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org> <00a001c176a9$ad809400$0364a8c0@tanis>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <00a001c176a9$ad809400$0364a8c0@tanis>; from tanis@mediacom.it on Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 07:39:27PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> Or just let subscribed users send mail to the mailing list, which is even
+> better IMO.
+
+I would like to keep this list "open", so for now i put that site in the
+blacklist.
+
+For the HTML mails, i'm going to see what i can do about it ... 
+
+
+Thanks for your suggestions :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From tharibo@free.fr Tue Nov 27 19:28:56 2001
+Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fARISup16273
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:28:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tharibo@free.fr)
+Received: from there (toulouse-2-a7-37-135.dial.proxad.net [62.147.37.135])
+	by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 82EE4AB4FF
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:23:30 +0100 (CET)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: "Nel ML" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:25:07 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Message-Id: <20011127182330.82EE4AB4FF@postfix1-2.free.fr>
+Subject: [Nel] Compile error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi!
+
+I'm trying to compile Nel and Snowballs but can't do it.
+I have the latest CVS update.
+Here are the errors:
+
+-------------8<------------------------8<-----------------------8<---------------
+unified_network.cpp: In function `void NLNET::cbDisconnection 
+(NLNET::CBufSock *, void *)':
+unified_network.cpp:109: name lookup of `i' changed for new ISO `for' 
+scoping
+unified_network.cpp:100:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+unified_network.cpp: In function `void NLNET::cbServiceIdentification 
+(NLNET::CMessage &, NLNET::CBufSock *, NLNET::CCallbackNetBase &)':
+unified_network.cpp:183: name lookup of `i' changed for new ISO `for' 
+scoping
+unified_network.cpp:174:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+unified_network.cpp: In method `void 
+NLNET::CUnifiedNetwork::updateConnectionTable ()':
+unified_network.cpp:569: cannot convert `NLNET::CBufSock *' to `uint16' 
+in assignment
+-------------8<------------------------8<-----------------------8<---------------
+
+Any idea?
+
+-- 
+tharibo@free.fr
+"Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+-- Georges Brassens
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Nov 28 10:44:23 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAS9iKp21255
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:44:20 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000f01c177f0$8403c320$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011127182330.82EE4AB4FF@postfix1-2.free.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compile error
+Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:39:03 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+It was fixed yesterday (don't know why it was on the public cvs, I coded
+this yesterday and I also fixed it yesterday, so it should never be on the
+public cvs... anyway...)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Thomas RIBO" <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: "Nel ML" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 7:25 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Compile error
+
+
+> Hi!
+>
+> I'm trying to compile Nel and Snowballs but can't do it.
+> I have the latest CVS update.
+> Here are the errors:
+>
+> -------------8<------------------------8<-----------------------8<--------
+-------
+> unified_network.cpp: In function `void NLNET::cbDisconnection
+> (NLNET::CBufSock *, void *)':
+> unified_network.cpp:109: name lookup of `i' changed for new ISO `for'
+> scoping
+> unified_network.cpp:100:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+> unified_network.cpp: In function `void NLNET::cbServiceIdentification
+> (NLNET::CMessage &, NLNET::CBufSock *, NLNET::CCallbackNetBase &)':
+> unified_network.cpp:183: name lookup of `i' changed for new ISO `for'
+> scoping
+> unified_network.cpp:174:   using obsolete binding at `i'
+> unified_network.cpp: In method `void
+> NLNET::CUnifiedNetwork::updateConnectionTable ()':
+> unified_network.cpp:569: cannot convert `NLNET::CBufSock *' to `uint16'
+> in assignment
+> -------------8<------------------------8<-----------------------8<--------
+-------
+>
+> Any idea?
+>
+> --
+> tharibo@free.fr
+> "Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+> -- Georges Brassens
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Nov 28 16:32:27 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fASFWQp23248
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:32:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:26:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:26:32 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compile error
+Message-ID: <20011128162632.A58159@nevrax.com>
+References: <20011127182330.82EE4AB4FF@postfix1-2.free.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20011127182330.82EE4AB4FF@postfix1-2.free.fr>; from tharibo@free.fr on Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 07:25:07PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+
+Thomas RIBO wrote:
+> 
+> I'm trying to compile Nel and Snowballs but can't do it.
+> I have the latest CVS update.
+> Here are the errors:
+> [...]
+
+That should be fix in the tonight cvs synchronization ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Nov 28 16:43:44 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fASFhep23337
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:43:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:38:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fASFbih58238
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:37:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:37:43 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GCC version and Debian Package
+Message-ID: <20011128163743.B58159@nevrax.com>
+References: <200111271232.NAA01860@montblanc.annet>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <200111271232.NAA01860@montblanc.annet>; from laurent.hausermann@naema.org on Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 11:52:08AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Laurent,
+
+Laurent Hausermann wrote:
+> 
+>  - What gcc version number is required to compile Nel ? I look for this
+> information through the documentation without success (in fact, there is not
+> a lot of dependancy version required). I have standard Debian potato version
+> (2.95.2) and it fails to compile.
+
+We were used to use GCC 2.95.2, but we upgraded it to GCC 2.95.4 and it
+compile fine with that version.
+
+Your problem migth come from other things than GCC (listdc++, STL,
+etc...), could you send us the error messages and more informations
+about the your system, please ?
+
+>  - I think it's a bit tough to compile due to a lot of depedancy ... What
+> about creating a Debian (or Redhat if there are redhat's user) package ? If
+> anyone can help me, I could begin for the Debian package for testing debian
+> version.
+
+It's a very good idea but at the momment we (Nevrax) doesn't have so
+much time to work on it and, to be honest, nobody here have ever made
+any Debian or RPM packages, but i will be very pleased to help you :-)
+
+
+> Thanks to the nel Team for this great work (I can't compile yet, but it is
+> really great ! :)
+
+Thanks Laurent :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Nov 28 16:48:58 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fASFmwp23393
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:48:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fASFh4p61465
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:43:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:43:04 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs Segfaults
+Message-ID: <20011128164304.A58256@nevrax.com>
+References: <200111250129.BAA06060@dci.doncaster.on.ca>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <200111250129.BAA06060@dci.doncaster.on.ca>; from lists@elesi.org on Sat, Nov 24, 2001 at 08:34:04PM +0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+Heath Johns wrote:
+> [...]
+> 
+> If anyone knows anything about getting the landscape to show up, please let 
+> me know, it's the big reason why I'm interested in NeL :)
+
+we got these bugs on snowballs 2 since the begining, and we didn't had the
+time to checkit out ... sorry ... i'm going to find some time to take a
+look on it ... be patient :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From zen@lapisonline.com Thu Nov 29 10:53:32 2001
+Received: from proxy.lapisonline.com (ns1.lapisonline.com [210.65.246.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAT9rTp29331
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:53:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zen@lapisonline.com)
+Received: from blackmesa (nat.lapisonline.com [210.65.246.60])
+	by proxy.lapisonline.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8FB347659D
+	for <Nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:47:33 +0800 (CST)
+Message-ID: <000201c178ba$eba45470$6601010a@blackmesa>
+From: "zen" <zen@lapisonline.com>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:21:47 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Subject: [Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all,
+
+I've try to compile the object viewer and got the messages followed:
+
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+
+I have no idea how come this happened. The header file looks fine and =
+I've successfully compile the snowball2 thus it should be correct, =
+right?
+
+Please help me out!
+
+By the way , I want to study the code, and maybe I can offer some help, =
+for example, debug, where should I start? Should possess any expertise =
+first?
+
+Sincerely,
+
+Zen Jean
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>I've try to compile the =
+object viewer and got the=20
+messages followed:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9=20
+size=3D2>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error =
+C2589: '('=20
+: illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : '::'</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>I have no idea how come =
+this happened. The header=20
+file looks fine and I've successfully compile the snowball2 thus it =
+should be=20
+correct, right?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Please help me =
+out!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>By the way , I want to =
+study the code, and maybe I=20
+can offer some help, for example, debug, where should I start? Should =
+possess=20
+any expertise first?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Zen =
+Jean</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Nov 29 11:01:07 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fATA17p29408
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:01:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fAT9trA36808
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:55:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005801c178bc$08611750$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000201c178ba$eba45470$6601010a@blackmesa>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?
+Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:55:53 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2589: '('
+: illegal token on right side of '::'
+> D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2059:
+syntax error : '::'
+
+The problem is due to the STLport 4.5 conflict of min/max with <windows.h>.
+One solution is to use STLport 4.0, the other solution is to find all
+windows depend #include, put them together and #undef min #undef max just
+after the windows specific #include and just before nel #include.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From tharibo@free.fr Thu Nov 29 11:04:01 2001
+Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fATA41p29452
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:04:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tharibo@free.fr)
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+	by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id B9F2EAB242
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:58:46 +0100 (CET)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: "Nel ML" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:56:08 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Message-Id: <20011129095846.B9F2EAB242@postfix1-2.free.fr>
+Subject: [Nel] Low framerate
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi!
+
+Ok, I have now compiled all the stuff, got the latest data (why a 13Mo 
+tarball instead of CVS?) and made it run.
+
+I have the problem with landscape too, but Cédric said he will have a 
+look on it ;-)
+
+But the big problem is that I have only 5FPS! My configuration is a 
+Duron 800 with 384Mo and a GeForce2PRO 32Mo.
+Tribes II works well in 1024x768 and many options. What kind of 
+configuration do you have guys?!
+
+-- 
+tharibo@free.fr
+"Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+-- Georges Brassens
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Nov 29 11:16:26 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fATAGPp29559
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006401c178be$2be26060$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20011129095846.B9F2EAB242@postfix1-2.free.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Low framerate
+Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:11:11 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Thomas,
+
+CVS are not a good way to store binary data so we made a tarball.
+
+For Snowballs2, we have between 20 and 30 fps on our athlon 800mhz, 128mb,
+geforce 1 DDR on Windows in 800x600. For problem should come that our 3d
+cards is not used or a problem with driver or a problem with linux?
+
+Anyway, we actually don't have enough time to test/debug Snowballs2 on
+Gnu/Linux. If you find the problem, we'll be glad to add the fix.
+
+> "Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+> -- Georges Brassens
+
+Hehe, nice sentence but not lot of people could understand it here ;-)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From tharibo@free.fr Thu Nov 29 11:28:55 2001
+Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fATASsp29652
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:28:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tharibo@free.fr)
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+	by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 95203AB2D6
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:23:40 +0100 (CET)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Low framerate
+Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:25:18 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3]
+References: <20011129095846.B9F2EAB242@postfix1-2.free.fr> <006401c178be$2be26060$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+In-Reply-To: <006401c178be$2be26060$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Le Jeudi 29 Novembre 2001 11:11, vous avez écrit :
+> Hi Thomas,
+>
+> CVS are not a good way to store binary data so we made a tarball.
+We, at Nekeme, are using CVS for data for the game Arkhart 
+(http://www.nekeme.net ). It works well, but CVS doesn't look into 
+binary files to see the differences: it uses only dates which is 
+sufficient and doesn't make my poor 56K explode =)
+
+>
+> For Snowballs2, we have between 20 and 30 fps on our athlon 800mhz,
+> 128mb, geforce 1 DDR on Windows in 800x600. For problem should come
+> that our 3d cards is not used or a problem with driver or a problem
+> with linux?
+>
+> Anyway, we actually don't have enough time to test/debug Snowballs2
+> on Gnu/Linux. If you find the problem, we'll be glad to add the fix.
+
+Okay, I'll try to have a look at it, but don't really now how to do 
+that (bad knowledge of Nel). Any hint?
+
+-- 
+tharibo@free.fr
+"Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+-- Georges Brassens
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Nov 30 01:37:17 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAU0bGp34523
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:37:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD3199
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:32:06 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs Segfaults
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <200111250129.BAA06060@dci.doncaster.on.ca>
+References: <200111250129.BAA06060@dci.doncaster.on.ca>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/0.99.2 (Preview Release)
+Date: 30 Nov 2001 01:32:00 +0100
+Message-Id: <1007080320.1869.0.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Sat, 2001-11-24 at 21:34, Heath Johns wrote:
+> I don't know if you are still having this problem, but it is the same one 
+> that I've been trying to get around just now (I'm using the latest source 
+> from cvs).
+> 
+> My workaround:  comment out lines 423-445 in nel/src/3d/scene.cpp
+
+Yup, no segfault, the bug is around there. I couldn't check this up
+since I don't have 3GB and 2 CPU hours to compile the debug version of
+the libs... Thanks for the tip !
+
+> So it runs now.  There was a huge NeL logo obscuring everything, but I 
+> commented out line 369 of snowballs2/client/src/client.cpp and that took care 
+> of it.
+
+True, I'm actually worried this bug only shows in Linux,
+drawing/rendering should be perfectly portable...
+
+> So now I've got the gnu, and I can move around etc. and the trees show up, 
+> but there is no landscape.  Also, it times out if you try to contact 
+> itsalive.nevrex.org.
+
+Reproductible :)
+
+> If anyone knows anything about getting the landscape to show up, please let 
+> me know, it's the big reason why I'm interested in NeL :)
+
+Idem. I unzipped the data pack in data/ and everything quoted in
+client.cfg is there (banks, fonts and so on).
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Nov 30 02:14:15 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAU1EFp35143
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:14:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A9599
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:09:04 +0100 (CET)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-Pznp1zWHyRCUJpv2AZBa"
+X-Mailer: Evolution/0.99.2 (Preview Release)
+Date: 30 Nov 2001 02:08:58 +0100
+Message-Id: <1007082538.7649.2.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Subject: [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--=-Pznp1zWHyRCUJpv2AZBa
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Many Linux users reported a very slow framerate. Actually, they should
+notice that the initial framerate is good (100fps on my GeForce3) and
+drops as soon as the mouse is moved. If you have a CPU monitor nearby (a
+must for a serious Linux developer :)), you'll also notice that the
+client spends most of the time in system calls.
+
+NeL use the 'center warped mouse' trick to fetch relative mouse
+coordinates. This need a call to XWarpPointer every time a mouse motion
+event is read, to warp the pointer at the center. However this trigger
+another mouse motion event (all X functions behave like user
+interaction, here we have a gap with the win32 world) : you'll quickly
+realize that you have the famous 'Larsen' effect (actually you're
+filling the X queue faster than you're flushing it).
+
+I made a _dirty_ hack to solve temporarily the pb : make the event
+emitter ignore mouse events that report centered (0.5,0.5) mouse
+coordinates (one-liner patch attached).
+
+However, I'm a bit surprised by the display driver interface. The
+'center warped mouse' trick is way deprecated. It's been a long time
+since Windows (via DirectInput) and XFree (via DGA) support 'mickey'
+mode. Reading mickeys give you the best mouse resolution, and moreover
+bypass any filter (and Windows does smooth mouse motion).
+
+What's more disappointing, is that the bad trick is actually coded right
+into the client code (ie. in Snowballs2). So it's too late to switch
+easily to proper mickey reading, since the driver didn't have the right
+abstraction (two coordinates modes : absolute and relative).
+
+I consider this as two errors : making the assumption that setMousePos()
+has a portable behaviour (XWarpPointer() _will_ generate an event), and
+imposing an old tweak on user to fetch relative coordinates. Remember
+that at hardware level, mouse coordinates are relative... See SDL code
+for ideas.
+
+--
+
+I should add a note on this. I'm actually just pointing out something
+akward in a huge and amazing work I admire. Friends I trust swore the
+real (hidden, except shots) demo just rules. The fact is, that I would
+like the Linux version of NeL be of high quality, I mean at least at the
+Windows development level. Something like pride, but also a simple
+parity case :) (ek, I'm playing Q3 and a bunch of other FPS at the same
+framerate of Windowsers ;)). That's maybe why I seem a little insistant
+on the Linux side of NeL. I know you don't have enough ressource to
+actively maintain the Linux port, so I never blame you for these pb.
+
+Cross-platform programming, and especially win32/Linux comparative
+design has become my speciality since the last 2 years. Now you
+understand why I was so critic on this 'relative mouse coordinates' pb
+:). The whole idea is, if you want to keep your promise of portability
+for NeL, I suggest you consider this mouse driver interface pb. Then
+we'll have no pb for future port (here I include Linux, BeOS and
+MacOS9/X experience).
+
+
+--=-Pznp1zWHyRCUJpv2AZBa
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=linux_mouse_larsen.patch
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+
+Index: unix_event_emitter.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.cp=
+p,v
+retrieving revision 1.4
+diff -c -r1.4 unix_event_emitter.cpp
+*** unix_event_emitter.cpp	11 Apr 2001 13:45:30 -0000	1.4
+--- unix_event_emitter.cpp	30 Nov 2001 01:11:34 -0000
+***************
+*** 264,269 ****
+--- 264,270 ----
+  	XGetWindowAttributes (_dpy, _win, &xwa);
+  	float fX =3D (float) event.xbutton.x / (float) xwa.width;
+  	float fY =3D 1.0f - (float) event.xbutton.y / (float) xwa.height;
++   if ((fX =3D=3D 0.5f) && (fY =3D=3D 0.5f)) break;
+  	TMouseButton button=3DgetMouseButton (event.xbutton.state);
+  	server.postEvent (new CEventMouseMove (fX, fY, button, this));
+  	break;
+
+--=-Pznp1zWHyRCUJpv2AZBa--
+
+
+From Francois.Lagunas@m4x.org Fri Nov 30 10:47:41 2001
+Received: from turbocow.exalead.com ([212.234.111.157])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAU9lep37916
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:47:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Francois.Lagunas@m4x.org)
+Received: from baloo (baloo.exalead.com [192.168.204.13])
+          by turbocow.exalead.com (8.8.8/jtpda-5.3.3) with SMTP id KAA19156
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:42:21 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <003f01c17983$52c1bdf0$0dcca8c0@office.exalead.com>
+From: "Francois Lagunas" <Francois.Lagunas@m4x.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:42:27 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Missing files
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+First, thank you for all the great stuff Nel offers !
+
+However, it seems there are a few missing files in public CVS repository (i
+update it las night) : while compiling Snowballs2, I get the following
+missing include files error :
+
+#include <nel/sound/u_audio_mixer.h>
+#include <nel/sound/u_env_sound.h>
+#include <nel/sound/u_listener.h>
+#include <nel/sound/u_source.h>
+
+I know there is no sound support in Snowballs2 at this time, and I noticed
+that some sound code was commented out, but some comments are still missing
+;-)
+I fixed it removing all reference in Makefile and sources to sound.cpp,
+sound.h and so on .
+Now, I will try to see how to fix the missing functions in Mesa4.0... And I
+do not want to compile Nel with Visual C++, I won't be there next year ;-).
+
+Regards,
+
+Francois Lagunas
+
+
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Fri Nov 30 16:59:19 2001
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAUFxGp42817
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:59:18 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from psiegel@geneticanomalies.com)
+Received: from binkystick ([63.101.169.138])
+          by mistery.geneticanomalies.com (Lotus Domino Build 166.1)
+          with SMTP id 2001113010491959:7239 ;
+          Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:49:19 -0500 
+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:57:26 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
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+ 11/30/2001 10:49:19 AM,
+	Serialize by Router on mistery/Geneticanomalies(Release 5.0 |March 30, 1999) at
+ 11/30/2001 10:49:29 AM,
+	Serialize complete at 11/30/2001 10:49:29 AM
+Message-ID: <015601c179b7$b5de37e0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="Windows-1252"
+Subject: [Nel] So many services!
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Is there a doc somewhere with a comprehensive list of all the services in
+the NeLNS project (and in the Snowballs services project)?  I'm having
+trouble figuring out which services do what.  It'd be nice to see a full
+list of services possibly organized into groups (services unique to the
+system, unique to the machine, and unique to a shard).  Also, what defines a
+shard?  Can multiple shards exist on a single machine?  If not, what's the
+difference between a service unique to a shard and one unique to a machine?
+
+Thanks.
+
+Paul
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Fri Nov 30 17:27:40 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAUGRdp43033
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:27:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
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+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA1561736
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:22:23 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <3C07B240.B3FC236A@packetport.com>
+Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:22:24 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <015601c179b7$b5de37e0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+The documentation is not exactly fully clear here on what needs to run,
+what cfg files are needed, etc.  Perhaps this is all beyond my abilities
+to understand and execute this program but I really would like to figure
+out how to build and hence maintain my own little snowballs server to
+make my own little modified game.
+
+  Tony
+
+P.S. Anyone finaly build the 3D Studio Max Plugin's for version 4?
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Fri Nov 30 17:36:34 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fAUGaYp43114
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:36:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
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+Message-ID: <022701c179bc$762f2be0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <015601c179b7$b5de37e0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com> <3C07B240.B3FC236A@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?
+Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:31:28 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> 
+> P.S. Anyone finaly build the 3D Studio Max Plugin's for version 4?
+
+No luck till now. I had to give up for some time.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Fri Nov 30 18:13:03 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAUHD3p43373
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:13:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id fAUH7mA56469
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:07:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fAUH6tI04287
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:06:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:06:55 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Missing files
+Message-ID: <20011130180655.A4261@nevrax.com>
+References: <003f01c17983$52c1bdf0$0dcca8c0@office.exalead.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <003f01c17983$52c1bdf0$0dcca8c0@office.exalead.com>; from Francois.Lagunas@m4x.org on Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:42:27AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Francois,
+
+Francois Lagunas wrote:
+> 
+> First, thank you for all the great stuff Nel offers !
+
+Thanks :-)
+
+> [...]
+> 
+> I know there is no sound support in Snowballs2 at this time, and I noticed
+> that some sound code was commented out, but some comments are still missing
+> ;-)
+> I fixed it removing all reference in Makefile and sources to sound.cpp,
+> sound.h and so on .
+> Now, I will try to see how to fix the missing functions in Mesa4.0... And I
+> do not want to compile Nel with Visual C++, I won't be there next year ;-).
+
+The sound is not working on Snaowballs but your error should not be
+thet i you compile NeL with the sound support by using the NeL's configure
+option '--enable-sound', you should have OpenAL installed too ...
+
+Do not hesitate to contact us if that didn't fix your problem ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Dec  3 11:26:57 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB3AQup68301
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:26:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fB3ALeA68308
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:21:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001f01c17be4$54cf3470$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <1007082538.7649.2.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:21:54 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Vincent,
+
+I would like to thank you for your help and your advises regarding the mouse
+interface.
+
+Yes you're right, the best mouse implementation should use the mickey mode.
+A second implementation of the Events Emitter is planed in a near future.
+This will introduce new messages for all the input interfaces including
+mickey messages using Directinput and Dga.
+After this work, the client side code could be modified to virtualise the
+input regarding the user configuration.
+For the time, the one we use is only based on win32 and xlib basic messages
+so, it is not very smart. Sorry for this.
+
+Be sure we want a NeL Gnu/Linux implementation as good as possible. :-)
+Thanks again for your help.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+From hubbster@online.no Wed Dec  5 22:46:28 2001
+Received: from mail48.fg.online.no ([148.122.161.48])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB5LkRp87102
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:46:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from hubbster@online.no)
+Received: from fairyfax (ti131310a080-0069.bb.online.no [146.172.16.69])
+	by mail48.fg.online.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA28888
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:41:01 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <000a01c17dd5$b6f4b100$0100a8c0@fairyfax>
+From: "Stein Arve Berge" <hubbster@online.no>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:42:18 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Creating temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D "WIN32" /D =
+"NDEBUG" /D "NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /Fp"ReleaseDebug/misc.pch" /YX =
+/Fo"ReleaseDebug/" /Fd"ReleaseDebug/" /FD /c=20
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_re=
+gistry.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stre=
+am.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h=
+.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.yacc.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_li=
+stener.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_se=
+rver.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_even=
+t_emitter.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id=
+.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displaye=
+r.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp"=
+
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_pt=
+r.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_i=
+nfo.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_man=
+ager.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_thre=
+ad.cpp"
+]
+Creating command line "cl.exe =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp"=20
+Creating temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp" =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /out:"../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib"=20
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mem_stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\matrix.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rect.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector_h.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_id.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\displayer.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mutex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\task_manager.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_thread.obj
+]
+Creating command line "link.exe -lib =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp"
+
+Output Window
+
+Compiling...
+class_registry.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_reg=
+istry.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No such file or directory
+file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+such file or directory
+mem_stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_strea=
+m.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': No such file or directory
+stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/stream.h': No such file or directory
+matrix.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/matrix.h': No such file or directory
+plane.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': =
+No such file or directory
+quat.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rect.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+such file or directory
+vector.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector.h': No such file or directory
+vector_h.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No such file or directory
+vectord.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vectord.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_fi=
+le\config_file.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.yacc.cpp
+config_file.yacc(14) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file or directory
+event_listener.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_lis=
+tener.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No such file or directory
+event_server.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_ser=
+ver.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_server.h': No such file or directory
+events.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+win_event_emitter.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event=
+_emitter.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+bit_set.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No such file or directory
+class_id.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_id.h': No such file or directory
+debug.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': =
+No such file or directory
+displayer.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp(32) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+i18n.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(=
+31) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+such file or directory
+log.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(3=
+1) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/displayer.h': No such file or directory
+mutex.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+path.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rgba.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+such file or directory
+smart_ptr.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr=
+.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': No such file or directory
+system_info.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_in=
+fo.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+task_manager.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_mana=
+ger.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No such file or directory
+time_nl.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+win_thread.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_threa=
+d.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+
+
+
+Results
+
+snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+
+yes im a newbie =3D)
+
+Feel free to mail me back : hubbster@online.no
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>Creating temporary file=20
+"C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" with =
+contents<BR>[<BR>/nologo /MD=20
+/W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D "WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D=20
+"NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /Fp"ReleaseDebug/misc.pch" /YX /Fo"ReleaseDebug/"=20
+/Fd"ReleaseDebug/" /FD /c=20
+<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\clas=
+s_registry.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\ne=
+l\src\misc\file.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\sno=
+wballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\t=
+est\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.c=
+om\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanpara=
+dox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp"<BR>"E:\urba=
+nparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp"<BR>"=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\=
+vectord.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\s=
+rc\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\tes=
+t\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.yacc.cpp"<BR>"E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_listen=
+er.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\mi=
+sc\event_server.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\events.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox=
+.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp"<BR>"E:\urb=
+anparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp"<BR>"=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc=
+\i18n.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src=
+\misc\log.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel=
+\src\misc\mutex.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg=
+\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.=
+com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp"<BR>"E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp"=
+<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_=
+thread.cpp"<BR>]<BR>Creating=20
+command line "cl.exe @C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" =
+<BR>Creating=20
+temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp" with=20
+contents<BR>[<BR>/nologo /out:"../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib"=20
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\mem_stream.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\m=
+atrix.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\rect.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vector_=
+h.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj<BR>=
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj=
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj=
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\win_event_emitter.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj<BR>.\Releas=
+eDebug\class_id.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\display=
+er.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj<BR>.\ReleaseD=
+ebug\mutex.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj<BR>.=
+\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj<BR>.\Releas=
+eDebug\task_manager.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\w=
+in_thread.obj<BR>]<BR>Creating command line "link.exe -lib=20
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp"<BR></DIV></FONT>
+<H3>Output Window</H3>
+<DIV><BR>Compiling...<BR>class_registry.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmor=
+pg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_registry.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>file.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>mem_stream.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>stream.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/stream.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>matrix.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/matrix.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>plane.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>quat.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>rect.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>vector.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>vector_h.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>vectord.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\vectord.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vectord.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>config_file.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or directory<BR>config_file.yacc.cpp<BR>config_file.yacc(14) : =
+fatal error=20
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>event_listener.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\event_listener.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>event_server.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\event_server.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_server.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>events.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\events.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>win_event_emitter.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\s=
+nowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>bit_set.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>class_id.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/class_id.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>debug.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>displayer.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\displayer.cpp(32)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>i18n.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(31)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>log.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clien=
+t\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(31)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/displayer.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>mutex.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>path.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>rgba.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>smart_ptr.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>system_info.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>task_manager.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>time_nl.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>win_thread.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\win_thread.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV>
+<H3>Results</H3>
+<DIV><BR>snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>yes im a newbie =3D)</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Feel free to mail me back : <A=20
+href=3D"mailto:hubbster@online.no">hubbster@online.no</A></DIV></FONT></B=
+ODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70--
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Thu Dec  6 02:57:01 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB61uup88794
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 02:56:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from PCTEST.in-orbit.org ([63.205.226.189])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB60oJs15967
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:50:19 -0800
+Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:53:42 -0800
+From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <155531971053.20011205175342@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------A119D143295BE29C"
+Subject: [Nel] Landscape Building problems
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+------------A119D143295BE29C
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+I'm building our landscape using the build_gamedata tools.
+The process seems to work and all the .zonel, .smallbank,
+.farbank, .rbank and .gr files are created.
+
+When I run the client with our landscape the far textures
+look all strange, the landscape appears and disappears when
+I move around using /goto.  I also never see the near textures.
+
+The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+with /goto.
+
+Everything looks fine in the landscape painter.
+
+I am attaching my export and build log along with the
+config and property files as a zip archive.
+
+Any hints=3F
+
+Warm regards,
+R=F3bert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+------------A119D143295BE29C
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+
+------------A119D143295BE29C--
+
+
+
+From legros@nevrax.com Thu Dec  6 12:33:34 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB6BXYp11930
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:33:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Received: from benjaminl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fB6BSFA98867
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+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <004801c17e49$2dd216a0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+From: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <155531971053.20011205175342@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscape Building problems
+Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:28:50 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+
+From: "Róbert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+
+> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+> with /goto.
+
+
+According to the log file, it seems that the build process crashes at the
+tessellation pass :
+
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1186 : setup zone tessellation
+2306 10_AC
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1447 : Compute landscape
+tessellation
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1450 :    - load tile bank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 WRN 1928 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: Path
+not found for warpstorm.smallbank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 241 : Total Span : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 242 : Total SpanList : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 325 : total computation time: 0 days, 0
+hours, 0 minutes and 0 seconds
+
+The builder doesn't find a path to the file 'warpstorm.smallbank'
+It should be located somewhere with the tile files...
+
+
+Benjamin.
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Dec  6 10:42:03 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fB69g3p01424
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:42:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:36:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001f01c17e39$90efb9f0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <155531971053.20011205175342@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscape Building problems
+Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:37:05 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Róbert, nice to see you again on the list :-)
+
+> When I run the client with our landscape the far textures
+> look all strange, the landscape appears and disappears when
+> I move around using /goto.
+
+Perhaps it is the thread loading process that make some times to load new
+zones when you use /goto.
+
+> I also never see the near textures.
+
+If you see arraws, it means the bitmap files are not found.
+Are you sure tiles are in a path directory of the client ?
+Can you check that your client use .dds tiles and not .tga tiles ? ( use
+CTileBank::makeAllExtensionDDS () )
+
+> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+> with /goto.
+
+I will ask my coworkers for this.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+From fred@via.ecp.fr Mon Dec 10 11:06:10 2001
+Received: from fred.ucender.net (ppp395-cwdsl.fr.cw.net [62.210.101.140])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBAA68p93307
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:06:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from fred@via.ecp.fr)
+Received: (from fred@localhost)
+	by fred.ucender.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) id fBAA0fp27522
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:00:41 +0100
+Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:00:41 +0100
+From: Arnaud Bienvenu <arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <20011210110041.A22934@generasound.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+Subject: [Nel] Feedback
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Good morning,
+
+I just tried to compile and run nel/snowballs2 from today's CVS source under
+Linux Redhat 7.2. First I had to apply two tiny patches (see below), and
+then, trying to run snowballs :
+
+WRN 3133 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.soh: shared object not open
+WRN 3133 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+
+Thank you for your attention,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.58
+diff -u -r1.58 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	6 Dec 2001 17:03:03 -0000	1.58
++++ nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	10 Dec 2001 09:55:52 -0000
+@@ -180,11 +180,14 @@
+                        transformable_user.h \
+                        trav_scene.h \
+                        vegetable.h \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.h \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.h \
+                        vegetable_def.h \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.h \
+                        vegetable_manager.h \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.h \
+                        vegetable_shape.h \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.h \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.h \
+                        vertex_buffer.h \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.h \
+@@ -369,11 +372,14 @@
+                        transformable.cpp \
+                        transformable_user.cpp \
+                        vegetable.cpp \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.cpp \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.cpp \
+                        vegetable_def.cpp \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.cpp \
+                        vegetable_manager.cpp \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.cpp \
+                        vegetable_shape.cpp \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.cpp \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.cpp \
+
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 ps_mesh.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	6 Dec 2001 16:51:49 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	10 Dec 2001 10:02:31 -0000
+@@ -840,7 +840,7 @@
+ 
+ //====================================================================================
+ // Private func used to force modulation on a material and to store the preious state
+-static inline ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &destMat, CMaterial &srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
++static inline void ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &destMat, CMaterial &srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
+ {
+ 	for (uint k = 0; k < IDRV_MAT_MAXTEXTURES; ++k)
+ 	{		
+
+From skander@WPI.EDU Tue Dec 11 02:18:58 2001
+Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU (root@smtp.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.62])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBB1Ivp01735
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 11 Dec 2001 02:18:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from skander@WPI.EDU)
+Received: from grover.WPI.EDU (root@grover.WPI.EDU [130.215.25.67])
+	by smtp.WPI.EDU (8.12.2.Beta1/8.12.2.Beta1) with ESMTP id fBB1DYvb022475
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:13:34 -0500 (EST)
+Received: from localhost (skander@localhost [127.0.0.1])
+	by grover.WPI.EDU (8.12.2.Beta1/8.12.2.Beta1) with ESMTP id fBB1DXCu031838
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:13:33 -0500 (EST)
+Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:13:32 -0500 (EST)
+From: Kai Schutte <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.43.0112102008310.29750-100000@grover.WPI.EDU>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+I'm trying to compile nel and snowballs, I've passed most hurdles, but
+this one is sticking...
+
+While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+
+ps_util.cpp
+D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+to specify a higher limit
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+
+Can I get a hint?
+
+thanks,
+
+-Kai
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Dec 12 10:19:02 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBC9J1p14504
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:19:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBC9DcA42118
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:13:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000f01c182ed$5478afa0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.OSF.4.43.0112102008310.29750-100000@grover.WPI.EDU>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:13:57 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+I had the same error yesterday. I have added the /Zm200 option in 3d.dsp and
+it seams to work. It should be on the CVS now.
+Big values passed to /Zm option lead to a visual crash.. /Zm100 is the
+default value (100% the default heap size)
+/Zm2000 is 2000% the default heap size ! :-)
+
+Thanks for the feedback,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+> While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+> C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+>
+> ps_util.cpp
+> D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+> fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+> to specify a higher limit
+> Error executing cl.exe.
+>
+> I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+
+
+
+From nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com Wed Dec 12 13:09:09 2001
+Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fBCC99p17686
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:09:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com)
+Received: from 10.1.1.6 [10.1.1.6] by lh00.opsion.fr; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:03:38 GMT
+Send-By: 140.94.82.18 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt; FR 15/06/2000)
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+From: <nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
+Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:03:38 GMT
+Message-id: <200112121203.264c@lh00.opsion.fr>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+Subject: [Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+I would to know what is the position of Nel (the
+graphic part) compare to SDL.
+
+Thanks,
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
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+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Wed Dec 12 14:22:49 2001
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+Subject: Re: [Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <200112121203.264c@lh00.opsion.fr>
+References: <200112121203.264c@lh00.opsion.fr>
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Wed, 2001-12-12 at 13:03, nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com wrote:
+> I would to know what is the position of Nel (the
+> graphic part) compare to SDL.
+
+Something like 3 abstraction levels above SDL :)
+SDL is a low-level programming framework, while NeL is rather a
+high-level toolkit for game development. I guess the Nevrax guys will
+just ask you to read the doc (at least its outline) if you want to grasp
+the idea ... http://www.nevrax.org/docs/
+
+
+
+From skander@skander.com Wed Dec 12 19:08:28 2001
+Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU (root@smtp.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.62])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBCI8Q320241
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:08:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from skander@skander.com)
+Received: from bespin (bespin.ind.WPI.EDU [130.215.107.179])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:02:53 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <000001c18336$c2d66e30$b36bd782@bespin>
+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@skander.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:59:01 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300
+Subject: [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,=20
+
+I got the 3d lib to compile. I was using the =
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under code\nel\nel.dsw.
+
+Okay, I got one more problem, and it seems to be associated with =
+<GL/glext.h> stuff...=20
+I downloaded and installed the <GL/glext.h> file from the SGI site.
+compiler output:
+
+driver_opengl.cpp
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'glActiveTextureARB'
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+
+at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+which refers to a <GL/glext.h> entry at line 1620:=20
+typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+I would suppose that this is some sort of precompile error... I've tried =
+changing little things in the vacinity, but everything I did just =
+generated more compile errors.=20
+
+Have you bumped into this problem?=20
+
+thanks,=20
+-Kai
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got the 3d lib to compile. I was =
+using the=20
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under =
+code\nel\nel.dsw.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Okay, I got one more problem, and it =
+seems to be=20
+associated with &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; stuff... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I downloaded and installed the =
+&lt;GL/glext.h&gt;=20
+file from the SGI site.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>compiler output:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+'glActiveTextureARB'<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+glActiveTextureARB;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; =
+entry at line=20
+1620: </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>typedef void (APIENTRY * =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)=20
+(GLenum texture);<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would suppose that this is some sort =
+of=20
+precompile error... I've tried changing little things in the vacinity, =
+but=20
+everything I did just generated more compile errors. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have you bumped into this problem? =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Kai</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0--
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Dec 12 19:23:43 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBCINg320347
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:23:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBCIIKA50607
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:18:20 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00e601c18339$6c677aa0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000001c18336$c2d66e30$b36bd782@bespin>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:18:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Kai,
+
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'glActiveTextureARB'
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+  (repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+  =20
+  at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+I compile without any kind of problem with the current <GL/glext.h> file =
+available on the SGI site. (GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D 7)
+Please make sure you have included the good file. If it is not the =
+problem, don't hesitate to post again.
+
+  which refers to a <GL/glext.h> entry at line 1620:=20
+  typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+
+I have the same definition at the same line, and it is the only one.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Kai,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+  =
+size=3D2>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+  =
+'glActiveTextureARB'<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2>(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  <BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>extern =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+  glActiveTextureARB;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I compile without any kind of problem =
+with the=20
+current &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; file available on the SGI site. =
+(GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D=20
+7)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please make sure you have included the =
+good file.=20
+If it is not the problem, don't hesitate to post=20
+again.</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; =
+entry at=20
+  line 1620: </FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>typedef void (APIENTRY *=20
+  PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the same definition at the same =
+line, and it=20
+is the only one.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Cyril</DIV></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060--
+
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Wed Dec 12 23:21:38 2001
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBCMLc322235
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:21:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from psiegel@geneticanomalies.com)
+Received: from binkystick ([63.101.169.138])
+          by mistery.geneticanomalies.com (Lotus Domino Build 166.1)
+          with SMTP id 2001121217112452:3048 ;
+          Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:11:24 -0500 
+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:14:17 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
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+X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on mistery/Geneticanomalies(Release 5.0 |March 30, 1999) at
+ 12/12/2001 05:11:24 PM,
+	Serialize by Router on mistery/Geneticanomalies(Release 5.0 |March 30, 1999) at
+ 12/12/2001 05:11:34 PM,
+	Serialize complete at 12/12/2001 05:11:34 PM
+Message-ID: <00c001c1835a$577400c0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="Windows-1252"
+Subject: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi everyone -
+
+I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+Paul
+
+
+From froggy@froggycorp.com Thu Dec 13 14:38:56 2001
+Received: from vmmr1.verisignmail.com (vmmr1.verisignmail.com [216.168.230.137])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBDDcu330062
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:38:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from froggy@froggycorp.com)
+Received: from vmms1.verisignmail.com (vmms1.verisignmail.com [10.166.0.138])
+	by vmmr1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint)
+	with ESMTP id ABE68846;
+	Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:33:27 -0500 (EST)
+From: <froggy@froggycorp.com>
+Received: from vmms1.verisignmail.com (localhost.verisignmail.com [127.0.0.1])
+	by vmms1.verisignmail.com (Mirapoint)
+	with SMTP id AGD52518 (AUTH froggy@froggycorp.com);
+	Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:33:26 -0500 (EST)
+Message-Id: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
+Received: from 159.50.96.226
+	by vmms1.verisignmail.com
+	with HTTP/1.1;
+	Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:33:36 +0100
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:33:36 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: Mirapoint Webmail Direct 2.9.2.1
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Gamer question
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello,
+
+The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the 
+game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+
++
+
+PS : Little hello to the demoscene people who work in 
+nevrax ;) (Ace, Hulud, and all i forgot)
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Thu Dec 13 14:46:44 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBDDkh330165
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:46:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA2212307
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:41:15 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <3C18B000.AE027E69@packetport.com>
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:41:20 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+References: <00c001c1835a$577400c0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Paul Siegel wrote:
+> 
+> Hi everyone -
+> 
+> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+  Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor. 
+I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+  Tony
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Thu Dec 13 14:49:20 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBDDnJ330212
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:49:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from packetport.com ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA2211384
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:43:55 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com>
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:44:01 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+froggy@froggycorp.com wrote:
+> The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+> game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+
+  I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+  Tony
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Dec 13 15:13:43 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fBDEDh330407
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:13:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 5845 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2001 14:54:25 -0000
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+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 13 Dec 2001 14:54:25 -0000
+Message-ID: <0d9801c183df$980b0810$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:08:09 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+
+> > The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+> > game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+>
+>   I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+> Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+> question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+> the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses NEL.
+But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make them
+public.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Dec 13 15:18:12 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBDEIC330495
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+Message-ID: <005701c183e0$472f4e00$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <00c001c1835a$577400c0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:13:03 +0100
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Paul,
+
+> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+The NeL 3d library has several user level.
+
+Using the user interface (all u_headers.h in the 3d lib) of the library, you
+can only
+load and display a landscape. This level is used by the game developper to
+abstract
+the game engine from the technology implementation.
+
+Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+quilckly create patches and
+landscape zones. It is really simple to export some bezier quad patches from
+Blender
+(does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small plugin.
+Simple C++ classes
+are provided to "Builb" the ".zone" c++ objects. Then serialisation is used
+to save them
+in binary files.
+
+The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles, vertex
+color and
+displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At nevrax, this is done by
+the artists using
+a 3dsmax plugin (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+generate
+the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why not, a blender
+painter plugin...
+You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+landscape is not trivial at all.
+If you are short on time, a good solution is to generate painting, as most
+of the heightfield
+landscapes do.
+
+The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+stay the same
+as far as you generate ".zone" files.
+
+>
+> Paul
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Dec 13 15:28:57 2001
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+Message-ID: <006701c183e1$c76e0100$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com> <0d9801c183df$980b0810$024510ac@valerio>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:23:47 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Valerio,
+
+> You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+NEL.
+> But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+them
+> public.
+
+No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+
+NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+
+In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+of your program under
+the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Dec 13 15:35:31 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:22 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+
+> I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  
+
+Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+
+Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers 
+team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+
+> Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+NeL, you have to release your source code.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Dec 13 15:48:25 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fBDEmO330855
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:48:24 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com> <007901c183e2$b25c1030$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:42:53 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:30 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+> > I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> > Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.
+>
+> Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+>
+> Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers
+> team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+>
+> > Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> > there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+>
+> At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+> NeL, you have to release your source code.
+
+Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+client??
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Dec 13 15:49:38 2001
+Received: from www.digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fBDEnc330895
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+Message-ID: <0dae01c183e4$9edb2a30$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com> <0d9801c183df$980b0810$024510ac@valerio> <006701c183e1$c76e0100$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:44:08 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+> > You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+> NEL.
+> > But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+> them
+> > public.
+>
+> No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+>
+> NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+>
+> In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+> of your program under
+> the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+
+
+I was discussing this with Ace a few moments ago. Yes, you're right, I was
+confusing between GPL and LGPL. :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+From archer@lists.frmug.org Thu Dec 13 15:54:30 2001
+Received: from lists.frmug.org (lists.frmug.org [193.56.58.115])
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+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:49:06 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Message-ID: <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com> <007901c183e2$b25c1030$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio>
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+In-Reply-To: <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio>; from tanis@mediacom.it on Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 03:42:53PM +0100
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Valerio Santinelli:
+> From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+> > At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+> > NeL, you have to release your source code.
+> 
+> Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+> client??
+
+By implication, yes.
+
+The GPL is relatively strict in its implications.
+
+Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+
+So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+
+Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+Nevrax has that right :)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Dec 13 15:59:18 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+Message-ID: <00af01c183e6$04fc12b0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C18B0A1.BF6EA5A7@packetport.com> <007901c183e2$b25c1030$1701a8c0@cyrilc> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:54:09 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+> client??
+
+Yes, as Ryzom client uses GPL source code, we will release its source 
+code too.
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+
+From nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com Thu Dec 13 18:11:01 2001
+Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fBDHB1331986
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+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+From: <nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:05:28 GMT
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+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs UDP
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+In June/Jully, there is a great thread about TCP vs
+UDP. I would like to know where goes the debat.
+
+TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
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+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Dec 13 18:29:18 2001
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+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131705.1c32@lh00.opsion.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] TCP vs UDP
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:23:54 +0100
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+
+Server to server communication use TCP with 5 NeL layer abstraction (on
+LAN).
+Server to client and client to server communcations use UDP wrapper in NeL
+(CUdpSock).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Dec 13 19:15:57 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBDIFv332480
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:15:57 +0100 (CET)
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:10:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:10:15 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Feedback
+Message-ID: <20011213191015.A79849@nevrax.com>
+References: <20011210110041.A22934@generasound.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20011210110041.A22934@generasound.com>; from arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr on Mon, Dec 10, 2001 at 11:00:41AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Arnaud,
+
+Arnaud Bienvenu wrote:
+> 
+> Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+> error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+> error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+
+Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+
+> PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+> you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+
+I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+took a look on ii.
+
+If the patches are small you can do it like that, otherwise that will be
+better to have them as attachments.
+
+
+Thanks a lot for your help.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Dec 13 19:19:15 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBDIJF332502
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:19:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id fBDIDXI79974
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:13:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:13:33 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+Message-ID: <20011213191333.B79849@nevrax.com>
+References: <1007082538.7649.2.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <1007082538.7649.2.camel@zerodeux.home>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 02:08:58AM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Vincent,
+
+I applied your patch.
+
+Thanks a lot for the help,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From skander@WPI.EDU Fri Dec 14 01:16:04 2001
+Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU (root@smtp.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.62])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE0G3334647
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 01:16:03 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:10:38 -0500 (EST)
+Message-Id: <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU>
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Kai Schutte <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:07:24 -0500
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org>
+In-Reply-To: <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+>
+> So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+>
+> Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> Nevrax has that right :)
+
+I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of 
+reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is probably 
+currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit the 
+GPL. 
+Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore 
+should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret" 
+until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on your 
+plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this 
+secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby making 
+it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from 
+public eyes? 
+
+Just thinking out loud... 
+
+-Kai
+
+From zen@lapisonline.com Fri Dec 14 03:37:15 2001
+Received: from proxy.lapisonline.com (ns1.lapisonline.com [210.65.246.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE2bD335909
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:37:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zen@lapisonline.com)
+Received: from blackmesa (c1-102.lapisonline.com [10.1.1.102])
+	by proxy.lapisonline.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B5D5D3261D
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:14 +0800 (CST)
+Message-ID: <002f01c18447$6a470bf0$6601010a@blackmesa>
+From: "zen" <zen@lapisonline.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU>
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Kai,
+
+To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+but it's not obligatory.
+
+Keep up the good work, guys.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+>
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+>
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+probably
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+the
+> GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+"secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+>
+> Just thinking out loud...
+>
+> -Kai
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Fri Dec 14 03:44:21 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE2iK335947
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 03:44:20 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur (w010.z064002027.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.27.10])
+	by mail.in-orbit.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fBE1bCs13387
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:37:12 -0800
+Message-Id: <200112140137.fBE1bCs13387@mail.in-orbit.net>
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:40:54 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+>I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of 
+>reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is probably 
+>currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit the 
+>GPL. 
+>Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore 
+>should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret" 
+>until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on your 
+>plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this 
+>secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+the gpl only requires source distribution in the event of binary distribution- as long as ryzom remains unreleased, the code is nevrax's domain- and even when it is released it will not be "public domain" because that implies a 
+total lack of license, or even copyright which nevrax will always retain.
+
+>Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby making 
+>it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from 
+>public eyes? 
+>
+lgpl vs gpl is certainly a complicated issue.  it often makes a lot of business sense for a company to straddle the line between opensource and proprietary software, releasing libraries or some other chunk of code and selling 
+another proprietary chunk that is either linked to their lgpl libraries or makes use of the opensource code in some other way.  in games, however, there is a lot of important copyrighted content required to play the official game 
+and in the case of an mmorpg there is probably a subscription cost associated with the service of running the network/updating the content.  at InOrbit, we plan to release our client source and would do so even if nel were lgpl 
+.  that does not mean that you'll be able to play our games for free, however.  it seems nevrax feels the same way and is ensuring other developers will release their clients too by using the general gpl rather than the lesser.
+we should count ourselves very lucky that a well funded and talented game company has released their libraries and even luckier that they'll release their own game's source when they're ready.  we can't expect them to spend 
+their time packaging up and tech-supporting their pre-beta game, though, they have responsibilities to their publisher.
+
+thanks again nevrax,
+Michael Warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+
+
+From claw@kanga.nu Fri Dec 14 04:59:30 2001
+Received: from dingo.home.kanga.nu ([198.144.204.212])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE3xS336383
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 04:59:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from claw@kanga.nu)
+Received: from kanga.nu (localhost [127.0.0.1])
+	by dingo.home.kanga.nu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BC7923EF
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:54:03 -0800 (PST)
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question 
+In-Reply-To: Message from "zen" <zen@lapisonline.com> 
+   of "Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800." <002f01c18447$6a470bf0$6601010a@blackmesa> 
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU>  <002f01c18447$6a470bf0$6601010a@blackmesa> 
+X-face: ?<YUs-cNP1\Oc-H>^_yw@fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9
+ YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\
+X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff
+X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
+Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:54:03 -0800
+Message-ID: <29114.1008302043@kanga.nu>
+From: J C Lawrence <claw@kanga.nu>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800 
+zen  <zen@lapisonline.com> wrote:
+
+> Hi Kai, To my understanding, you don't have to release the source
+> code if you don't sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may
+> release the code in development, but it's not obligatory.
+
+As soon as you distribute the product, which essentially means that
+you give, transfer, or otherwise provide it to someone else than
+yourself or your development team, you must grant that person full
+access to all the relevant sources.  No more, no less.  The GPL
+infects on distribution and only on distribution.
+
+-- 
+J C Lawrence                
+---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
+claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
+http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Dec 14 09:53:19 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE8rJ337985
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:53:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBE8ltA64505
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:47:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001301c1847c$0f7bd770$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU>
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:48:11 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+probably
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+the
+> GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+"secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+No, as our client game is not yet distributed, we have not to release the
+source
+code. The GPL is clear on this point. As V. Archer has said, you can ask
+for the client source code when you have the program under any form.
+
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+
+Releasing NeL under GPL means Nevrax can take a technical benefit
+if others companies make a game with NeL because they have to release
+there source code and the NeL modifications. This is one reason why
+NeL is GPL.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Dec 14 09:55:56 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE8tt338004
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:55:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBE8oVA64536
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:50:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001901c1847c$6cd0d100$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU> <002f01c18447$6a470bf0$6601010a@blackmesa>
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:50:47 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you
+don't
+> sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+> but it's not obligatory.
+
+Selling is not obligatory. Even if you distribute freely your 'based on GPL'
+program, you have to release the source code.
+
+> Keep up the good work, guys.
+
+Thanks Zen :-)
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+From archer@lists.frmug.org Fri Dec 14 10:25:19 2001
+Received: from lists.frmug.org (lists.frmug.org [193.56.58.115])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE9PI338164
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:25:18 +0100 (CET)
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+	id A67F220F31; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:52 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:52 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Message-ID: <20011214101952.D33968@frmug.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU>; from skander@WPI.EDU on Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 07:07:24PM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Kai Schutte:
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+> 
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of 
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is probably 
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit the 
+> GPL. 
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore 
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret" 
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on your 
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this 
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+It is not. A violation that is.
+
+I know the GPL is an awful amount of legalese, and, like any legal-jargon
+document, people chiefly know its intent, and not its phrasing.
+
+But the GPL does not force you to release anything.
+
+What the GPL forces you is that, *if* you release any GPL program/library,
+its sources MUST be available (and describes the minimum requirement for
+this availability, i.e. you can't claim the sources are available but you
+need to come to the Tuvalu Islands, wait 3 months of quarantine, and read
+them on a dot-matrix printer listing with surgical gloves on).
+
+Note the "if".
+
+As long as *you* don't have a Ryzom client, *you* are not entitled to ask
+for the sources. A company may very well decide to take a GPL piece of
+software, and use it to write a program it uses internally, and no one
+can come up front and ask for that program's sources. If the company
+uses it internally only, the only legal obligation of source disclosure
+is to the people who have the program, i.e. its own employees.
+
+Of course, the example shown above works as long as the program remains
+inside. Other parts of the GPL allow any employee to pick the internal
+programs, use it to write its own GPL variation, and distribute said
+variation outside of the company, distributing the base source in the
+same way, and there's nothing the company could do to prevent exposure.
+
+But, in Nevrax's case, it's not important, since the program will end
+up available to the public, and when it does, the sources will be.
+
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby making 
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from 
+> public eyes? 
+
+As long as no one outside of Nevrax has Ryzom, the strictures of the GPL
+are respected.
+
+Yeah, I know, we're impatient :)
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From archer@lists.frmug.org Fri Dec 14 10:28:45 2001
+Received: from lists.frmug.org (lists.frmug.org [193.56.58.115])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE9Sj338180
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+	id 3826C20F31; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:23:21 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:23:21 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Message-ID: <20011214102321.E33968@frmug.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU> <002f01c18447$6a470bf0$6601010a@blackmesa>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <002f01c18447$6a470bf0$6601010a@blackmesa>; from zen@lapisonline.com on Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 10:31:20AM +0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to zen:
+> Hi Kai,
+> 
+> To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+> sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+> but it's not obligatory.
+
+It's not "sell", it's "distribute". Even if you distribute it for free
+on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+source must be available.
+
+A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+
+Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+with the rest of the people out there.
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Dec 14 10:36:05 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBE9a2338230
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:36:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBE9UaA64968
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:30:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002301c18481$fcc3c2e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU>
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:30:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi,
+
+> Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+No it isn't. If oneday, we *distribute* Ryzom program and if Ryzom uses a
+GPL library, in this case, we have to give the source of Ryzom. But today,
+we don't distribute Ryzom, so we don't have to give the source. Look the GPL
+licence, it's based on distribution.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+>
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+>
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+probably
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+the
+> GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+"secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+>
+> Just thinking out loud...
+>
+> -Kai
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Fri Dec 14 14:21:25 2001
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBEDLN339717
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:21:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:15:53 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <3C19FB8F.925DCC95@packetport.com>
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:15:59 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU> <002301c18481$fcc3c2e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+
+  Tony
+
+From zen@lapisonline.com Fri Dec 14 14:34:52 2001
+Received: from proxy.lapisonline.com (ns1.lapisonline.com [210.65.246.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBEDYl339804
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zen@lapisonline.com)
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+	by proxy.lapisonline.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 76F8E3261D
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:28:37 +0800 (CST)
+Message-ID: <001b01c184a3$44c28920$6601010a@blackmesa>
+From: "zen" <zen@lapisonline.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU> <002f01c18447$6a470bf0$6601010a@blackmesa> <20011214102321.E33968@frmug.org>
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:28:50 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thank you guys, for enlightening me 8-).  I neglected the keyword
+'distrubte'.
+
+Zen Jean
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:23 PM
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+> According to zen:
+> > Hi Kai,
+> >
+> > To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you
+don't
+> > sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in
+development,
+> > but it's not obligatory.
+>
+> It's not "sell", it's "distribute". Even if you distribute it for free
+> on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+> source must be available.
+>
+> A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+> because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+> Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+> have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+>
+> Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+> with the rest of the people out there.
+>
+> --
+> Vincent Archer Email: archer@frmug.org
+>
+> All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are
+Socrates.
+> (Woody Allen)
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Dec 14 14:40:02 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBEDe0339868
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:40:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBEDYZA68172
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007901c184a4$1c471cd0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU> <002301c18481$fcc3c2e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3C19FB8F.925DCC95@packetport.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+
+Yes you can use GCC to compile proprietary softwares (else most of
+the playstation, GBA etc..  games are GPL :-) ), only software including 
+GPL code become GPL itself, not the product of GPLed software.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+From archer@lists.frmug.org Fri Dec 14 14:46:58 2001
+Received: from lists.frmug.org (lists.frmug.org [193.56.58.115])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBEDkv339936
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:46:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from archer@lists.frmug.org)
+Received: by lists.frmug.org (Postfix/TLS, from userid 200)
+	id 5827620F31; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:41:33 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:41:33 +0100
+From: Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+Message-ID: <20011214144133.T33968@frmug.org>
+References: <200112131333.AGD52518@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <0da801c183e4$72849c00$024510ac@valerio> <20011213154906.I58318@frmug.org> <200112140010.fBE0Ac1P007758@smtp.WPI.EDU> <002301c18481$fcc3c2e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <3C19FB8F.925DCC95@packetport.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3C19FB8F.925DCC95@packetport.com>; from ahoyt@packetport.com on Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 08:15:59AM -0500
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+According to Tony Hoyt:
+> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+
+Even though you *used* GCC to build the program, gcc *itself* is in no
+way present in the program you distribute. There's no portion of gcc
+source code or binary in your application. Thus, your program does not
+inherit the licensing from the gcc GPL license.
+
+The only think that gets bundled is the C library. And the C library
+(glibc) is covered by the LGPL, which specifically allows for that case
+(i.e. distributing a program that is linked with a GPL software, without
+ placing the GPL strictures on the program itself).
+
+The same thing would apply to a C grammar parser that was generated
+by bison (the GPL parser generation tool). Using bison to generate your
+C source does not require you to put said source under the GPL: bison
+is not included in your program, only its output (hmmm, is the library
+required for bison LGPL? I think so, but can't remember)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Fri Dec 14 14:50:34 2001
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
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+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:43:24 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+
+> Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+> quilckly create patches and landscape zones. It is really simple to
+> export some bezier quad patches from Blender
+> (does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small
+> plugin. Simple C++ classes are provided to "Builb" the ".zone" c++
+> objects. Then serialisation is used to save them
+> in binary files.
+
+Ok, this will be my first project.  Besides Blender, I'm also looking at
+OpenFX (www.openfx.org).  Unfortunately, I'm a coder not a graphic artist.
+I can't say I'm too learned on how to create bezier patches using either
+program, so I'm going to have to do a bit of research before I even start
+this.  If there are any artists out there with some input (especially
+something like "Blender doesn't support bezier patches") I'd love to hear
+from you.  Hopefully it shouldn't take too long to make either a file
+translator or some kind of export plugin for one of the apps, once I learn
+how to make the content using one of the aforementioned apps.
+
+> The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles,
+vertex
+> color and displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At
+> nevrax, this is done by the artists using a 3dsmax plugin
+> (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+> generate the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why
+> not, a blender painter plugin...
+
+Right, this will be phase 2.  I was sort of expecting this to be the hard
+part.
+
+> You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+> landscape is not trivial at all.  If you are short on time, a good
+> solution is to generate painting, as most of the heightfield
+> landscapes do.
+
+Can you elaborate on this?  Are you talking about coming up with some kind
+of algorithm to color the geometries instead of using textures?  I don't
+follow.
+
+> The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+> stay the same as far as you generate ".zone" files.
+
+Right, I'm assuming that once the .zone files are generated, I can follow
+the process used with 3DS Max.
+
+Thanks for the feedback Cyril.  It's nice to see how much input the official
+team has on this list.
+
+Paul
+
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Fri Dec 14 14:59:51 2001
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
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+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:52:43 -0500
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+
+Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of "if
+you distribute".  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+
+Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+
+Paul
+
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+> probably currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom
+> must inherit  the GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+> "secret" until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put
+food
+> on your plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet,
+isn't
+> this secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+
+
+
+From hplus@mindcontrol.org Fri Dec 14 19:25:35 2001
+Received: from smithers.sfrn.dnai.com (smithers.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.26])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBEIPY341496
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:25:34 +0100 (CET)
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+From: "Jon Watte" <hplus@mindcontrol.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:49 -0800
+Message-ID: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLKEBFDAAA.hplus@mindcontrol.org>
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+In-Reply-To: <200112141251.fBECpq339466@www.nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] RE: GPL confusion
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public 
+> domain, therefore should be published.
+
+I find two things confusing about this sentence.
+
+1) Something that is under GPL is explicitly NOT in the public 
+domain, as something under the GPL suffers substantially more 
+restrictive licensing than something that is in the public 
+domain. Basically, if it's in the PD, you can do what you want 
+to it, except POSSIBLY not mis-represent the origin. The GPL 
+imposes many more strictures on your use of the code.
+
+2) The GPL only requires that source code is made available 
+free of charge to anyone who purchases binaries, and that no 
+restrictions are made on the purchaser's rights to use that 
+source code (including subsequent redistribution). If Ryzom is 
+not for sale to anyone, then there is no requirement for the 
+developers thereof to make any source code available.
+
+Now, the GPL may have changed slightly since I last read it 
+through in full, but your statement does not seem to be based 
+on the actual language of the GPL.
+
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Fri Dec 14 20:32:43 2001
+Received: from mail.in-orbit.net ([63.205.226.187])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBEJWg341836
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+Message-Id: <200112141825.fBEIPVs21449@mail.in-orbit.net>
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:29:14 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+12/14/2001 5:52:43 AM, "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com> wrote:
+
+>Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of "if
+>you distribute".  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+>Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+>
+>Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+>the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+>use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+>
+thats what's known as the ASP hole (application service provider).  On the one hand it has been used to create money-making websites out of gpl pieces by companies who have never released their code changes.  On the 
+other hand, with a massively multiplayer game there is a lot of server side stuff- rules/ agent experience/ object locations that you may not want to release in the interests of gameplay.  However, most of that type of thing can 
+be abstracted from the core programs and written in a definition or scripting language specific to the game or in some general purpose language like python.  these interpreted programs, stored in some database, can now be 
+considered content and free from gpl obligations.  But that means that even if all the backend source is available, you have a lot of work to do before it does anything useful.
+with a few grey areas in rules (physics?) I think this is as it should be.
+
+michael
+
+
+From cblt@cblt.org Fri Dec 14 20:36:16 2001
+Received: from smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr (smarthost2.mail.easynet.fr [212.180.1.69])
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+Message-ID: <001101c184d3$2b4c4870$130000c0@hognon>
+From: "Nicolas Hognon" <cblt@cblt.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:11:43 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Subject: [Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hello ....
+
+I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+front ends there is some computers running different services.
+And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all shard
+?)
+
+Clients communicate with one front end of a shard.
+
+But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+or a specific service from NEL ?
+
+The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+NEL ?
+
+If there a description of all NEL services ?
+what is the welcome service ?
+
+sorry for all this questions ....
+bye
+
+--
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+From Markus_Ewald@gmx.net Sat Dec 15 13:07:45 2001
+Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
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+Message-ID: <3C1B3BBF.F1313D9A@gmx.net>
+Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:02:07 +0100
+From: Markus Ewald <Markus_Ewald@gmx.net>
+Organization: LunaticSystems
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (WinNT; I)
+X-Accept-Language: de
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+References: <00c001c1835a$577400c0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com> <3C18B000.AE027E69@packetport.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+
+> Paul Siegel wrote:
+> >
+> > Hi everyone -
+> >
+> > I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> > That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> > available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> > rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+>
+>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+There's also a free landscape modeller at
+-> www.geofrac2000.com
+
+It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of 3dsmax.
+The author discontinued the project and made it available for free, but it's
+still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with the
+raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+
+>
+>
+>   Tony
+>
+
+-Markus-
+
+
+
+From denisov@darkwing.uoregon.edu Sun Dec 16 11:14:03 2001
+Received: from darkwing.uoregon.edu (root@darkwing.uoregon.edu [128.223.142.13])
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+	by darkwing.uoregon.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fBGA8a715480
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:08:36 -0800 (PST)
+Message-ID: <000501c1861c$832fd1c0$8516df80@tess>
+From: "Alexander Denisov" <denisov@darkwing.uoregon.edu>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:29:15 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+Subject: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+
+I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+
+I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+(and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+
+By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a "green light"
+to hackers? Are there any ways
+somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+hacker
+knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+game in secret
+(though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+
+I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+important question.
+
+By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+it)
+
+Alex
+
+
+From alfred@mazuma.net.au Sun Dec 16 12:26:24 2001
+Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com (mta02bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.34])
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+Message-ID: <3C1C8398.4000004@mazuma.net.au>
+Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:20:56 +1100
+From: alfred <alfred@mazuma.net.au>
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+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+References: <000501c1861c$832fd1c0$8516df80@tess>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed
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+
+I have nothing to do with the nevrax team but I know the answer to this. 
+To put it simply, there is not security in obscurity. The protection 
+isn't in the alogrithm, its in the "secret" that is shared. This axiom 
+has been proved time and again, just look at the troubles windows has 
+with its codebase... The lack of published source code ain't helping them.
+
+I am not sure what security model nel will adopt but there are many to 
+choose from and none suffer from the openness of the protocol. You could 
+sign the client binaries with a public/private key pair. This stops 
+trivial hacks. You would also run a secure game server which does bounds 
+checking on the input, this stops obvious hacking. You can also encrypt 
+the client->server data stream. Fundamentally you are in trouble because 
+the client is a generalised computing machine which the user has 
+complete control over, if they have the machine code they can crack it, 
+but you can make it damn hard. You can also make any hack shortlived by 
+having dynamic binaries. The open source nature of nel only makes it 
+more secure as any flaws or bugs in the implementation will be spotted 
+and solved, rather than being exploited (many eyes make bugs shallow).
+
+:)
+
+
+
+
+Alexander Denisov wrote:
+
+> Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+> 
+> I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+> still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+> 
+> I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+> (and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+> gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+> 
+> By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a "green light"
+> to hackers? Are there any ways
+> somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+> hacker
+> knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+> game in secret
+> (though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+> 
+> I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+> since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+> important question.
+> 
+> By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+> it)
+> 
+> Alex
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+From fred@via.ecp.fr Sun Dec 16 18:18:03 2001
+Received: from fred.ucender.net (ppp1226-cwdsl-paris.fr.cw.net [62.210.116.202])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBGHI1358260
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:18:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from fred@via.ecp.fr)
+Received: (from fred@localhost)
+	by fred.ucender.net (8.11.6/8.11.2) id fBGHCTf09962
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:12:29 +0100
+Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:12:29 +0100
+From: Arnaud Bienvenu <arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Feedback
+Message-ID: <20011216181229.B32593@generasound.com>
+References: <20011210110041.A22934@generasound.com> <20011213191015.A79849@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <20011213191015.A79849@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 07:10:15PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Thanks for answering Cedric,
+
+On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 07:10:15PM +0100, Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+
+I managed to workaround this problem linking the snowballs 2 client against
+libGL.so (by default, libnel_drv_opengl.so is linked against libGL, but not
+the snowballs 2 client). I do not know if this is a Linux requirement, or
+another bug in RedHat's 7.2 GL librairies. I hope a Linux Guru will give us a
+clue.
+
+By the way, the libICE.soh standing instead of libICE.so is obviously a
+display bug non related to nel, since I could reproduce it from clean trivial
+code.
+
+At last, running the snowballs client, I get this well known error :
+INF 5222 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN 5222 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glSetFenceNV
+WRN 5222 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+I read on this list the problem is due to Fence NV disappearing from
+Mesa-3.4 (which I use), and that the nevrax team is working on it. Is it
+still the case ?
+
+> I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+> took a look on ii.
+
+The patched versions are not yet available from today's CVS head revision, but
+I trust you it's in the pipeline.
+
+Regards,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Sun Dec 16 19:18:07 2001
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBGII6365570
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:18:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from zerodeux.home (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46FA9F1D9
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 16 Dec 2001 19:12:42 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably
+	off topic)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <000501c1861c$832fd1c0$8516df80@tess>
+References: <000501c1861c$832fd1c0$8516df80@tess>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release)
+Date: 16 Dec 2001 19:12:38 +0100
+Message-Id: <1008526358.652.0.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+There's a bit more than the 'security through obscurity' debate in this
+question. It is actually more a question of trust, or if you prefer,
+_what_ or _who_ needs to be secured ? The game ? The player moves ? The
+server knowledge ?
+
+Eric S. Raymond (with a nice link to Carmack's tought about this) did a
+nice essay, back to the time where 'cheating drivers' (making walls
+transparent) were about to be unveiled for FPS games :
+
+http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Mon Dec 17 12:13:06 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBHBD5371226
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:13:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBHB7cA86300
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:07:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:07:37 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEBBCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
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+In-Reply-To: <1008526358.652.0.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Importance: Normal
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+At Nevrax our thoughts run as follows:
+
+Game clients are very easy to reverse engineer or hack on a PC.
+Server/ Client data packets are even easier to hack.
+
+We assume that whether the source code for the client is open or closed, it
+will inevitably be modified.
+
+The only way to avoid cheating is to take all game sensitive decisions
+server-side and to treat client as a kind of dumb terminal. This has
+implications throughout the game design.
+
+For instance, to avoid a hack from making invisible players visible, it is
+up to the servers not to transmit update information for invisible players
+to the clients. This means that invisible players can not make 3d-positional
+noises as this would give an exploitable piece of information.
+
+The front end servers clearly have to be robust too which means that all
+incoming data from the clients is treated with caution - packets containing
+invalid data are simply ignored.
+
+
+In a nutshell - we assume that servers are trustworthy and that clients are
+not.
+
+
+Daniel.
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:13 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question
+(probablyoff topic)
+
+
+There's a bit more than the 'security through obscurity' debate in this
+question. It is actually more a question of trust, or if you prefer,
+_what_ or _who_ needs to be secured ? The game ? The player moves ? The
+server knowledge ?
+
+Eric S. Raymond (with a nice link to Carmack's tought about this) did a
+nice essay, back to the time where 'cheating drivers' (making walls
+transparent) were about to be unveiled for FPS games :
+
+http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Mon Dec 17 13:19:53 2001
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBHCJq371573
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:19:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28014
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:14:22 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:49:30 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <132344043088.20011217124930@teleaction.de>
+To: Markus Ewald <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+In-reply-To: <3C1B3BBF.F1313D9A@gmx.net>
+References: <00c001c1835a$577400c0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+ <3C18B000.AE027E69@packetport.com> <3C1B3BBF.F1313D9A@gmx.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+And more:
+http://terraform.sourceforge.net/
+http://ftp.arl.army.mil/brlcad/
+http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/
+
+Saturday, December 15, 2001, 1:02:07 PM, you wrote:
+
+ME> Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+
+>> Paul Siegel wrote:
+>> >
+>> > Hi everyone -
+>> >
+>> > I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+>> > That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+>> > available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+>> > rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+>>
+>>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+>> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+>> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+>> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+>> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+>> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+>> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+ME> There's also a free landscape modeller at
+->> www.geofrac2000.com
+
+ME> It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of 3dsmax.
+ME> The author discontinued the project and made it available for free, but it's
+ME> still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+ME> landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with the
+ME> raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+
+>>
+>>
+>>   Tony
+>>
+
+ME> -Markus-
+
+
+ME> _______________________________________________
+ME> Nel mailing list
+ME> Nel@nevrax.org
+ME> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Dec 17 15:27:56 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBHERu372258
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:27:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBHEMUA88912
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007b01c18706$42dbd020$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001101c184d3$2b4c4870$130000c0@hognon>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi nico,
+
+> I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+> If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+> front ends there is some computers running different services.
+> And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all
+shard
+> ?)
+
+Shard is composed of services. There are front end services and back end
+services.
+Client are connected with on front end service and front end services are
+connected with back end services.
+There's only one login service for all shards. The client first connects to
+the login service that checks the validity of the account, after the client
+choose the shard. The login service warn the shard (via welcome service (one
+per shard)) that a new client will come. The welcome service chooses the
+best front end for the client and sends the choosen front end to the login
+service and the login service sends this info to the client. after, the
+client connects to the selected front end and authenticates.
+
+> But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement (try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+> It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+> or a specific service from NEL ?
+
+It s the welcome service that do that.
+
+> The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+> NEL ?
+
+Look the welcome service :-)
+
+> If there a description of all NEL services ?
+
+Look the net part of http://www.nevrax.org/docs/
+And also try here http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com Tue Dec 18 13:21:36 2001
+Received: from lh00.opsion.fr (lh00.opsion.fr [212.73.208.226])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fBICLZ378867
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:21:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com)
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+Send-By: 140.94.82.18 with Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt; FR 15/06/2000)
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+From: <nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
+Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:15:59 GMT
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id fBICLZ378867
+Subject: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+--__--__--
+
+Message: 3
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+load balancing, login service, ....)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+charset="iso-8859-1"
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+
+> But how clients are balanced between the N front
+ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+(try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+>>>> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+between client (such peer to peer network, or
+distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+could be possible to connect people which interract a
+lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+to the minimum.
+
+Does i smoke too much ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Tue Dec 18 15:56:56 2001
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBIEut379746
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+          with SMTP id 2001121809461337:7475 ;
+          Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:46:13 -0500 
+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:49:45 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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+ 12/18/2001 09:46:19 AM,
+	Serialize complete at 12/18/2001 09:46:19 AM
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+My apologies, I accidentally sent this first to nel-admin.  Guess the
+reply-to of the digest isn't set up to go to the correct place.  Here it is
+again, I hope nobody gets this twice:
+
+Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+Therefore, I've finally settled on the most basic thing I could find, namely
+sPatch.  (http://www.geocities.com/getspatch/index.html).  It is little more
+than a bezier patch editor, but currently that's all I need.  There appears
+to be a more feature rich package based on sPatch called hamaPatch
+(http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/6625/soft10.html), but currently all
+documentation on this is in Japanese and I don't speak the language.
+Perhaps my work can some day be moved to hamaPatch, but for the moment I'm
+sticking with sPatch.  Which means we should be able to generate the zone
+files with sPatch, but will need a seperate piece of software to paint the
+textures (since sPatch doesn't support any kind of texturing).  But I'll
+burn that bridge when I get to it.  ;)
+
+Fortunately, sPatch has good documentation on creating export plugins, and
+I'm well on my way to successfully making one.  I have a couple questions
+though for anyone on this list whi is familiar with the 3D code.
+
+1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to have
+a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use to
+populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these filled
+in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+fill in upon generating a single zone?
+
+2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest way
+to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to see
+if it indeed exported a valid file?
+
+Thanks again everyone for all the help.  This is a great project, and I'm
+having lots of fun playing with it.
+
+Paul
+
+> And more:
+> http://terraform.sourceforge.net/
+> http://ftp.arl.army.mil/brlcad/
+> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/
+>
+> Saturday, December 15, 2001, 1:02:07 PM, you wrote:
+>
+> ME> Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+>
+> >> Paul Siegel wrote:
+> >> >
+> >> > Hi everyone -
+> >> >
+> >> > I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio
+> Max.
+> >> > That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> >> > available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> >> > rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+> >>
+> >>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+> >> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+> >> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+> >> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+> >> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to
+be
+> >> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+> >> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+>
+> ME> There's also a free landscape modeller at
+> ->> www.geofrac2000.com
+>
+> ME> It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of
+> 3dsmax.
+> ME> The author discontinued the project and made it available for free,
+but
+> it's
+> ME> still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+> ME> landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with
+> the
+> ME> raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+>
+> >>
+> >>
+> >>   Tony
+> >>
+>
+> ME> -Markus-
+>
+>
+> ME> _______________________________________________
+> ME> Nel mailing list
+> ME> Nel@nevrax.org
+> ME> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Tue Dec 18 20:25:43 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBIJPh381441
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:25:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBIJKGA04851
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:20:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <01bd01c187f9$1132c170$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004101c187d3$3bcb1a20$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:20:34 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Paul,
+
+> Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+> building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+> aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+
+You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+
+> 1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to
+have
+> a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use
+to
+> populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+> However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+> object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these
+filled
+> in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+> fill in upon generating a single zone?
+
+The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder will
+fill them
+of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to fill the
+CBindInfo.
+
+The patches can be linked those way : (warning ASCII arts in non-constant
+size
+fonts.. :-)  )
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+     3
+   ***
+0 *  * 2
+   ***
+     1
+
+---
+
+There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+---
+
+One patch on another :
+
+**********
+*      *        *
+*  0  *   1   *
+*      *        *
+*      *        *
+**********
+CBindInfo:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1 },
+Edge = { 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 0 },
+Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   2   *
+**********
+Bind info:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2 }, Edge = { 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*      ******
+*      *   2   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   3   *
+*      ******
+*      *   4   *
+**********
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2, Patch 3, Patch 4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 3,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 2,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Note that zone_welder welds automaticaly the zones together but don't
+generate bind info for internal patch linking in a zone.
+It searches for shared vertices in the 2 zones and weld them. Zone_welder
+can perform only 1-1 bind type.
+
+I hope this is understandable, don't hesitate to ask for details.
+
+> 2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest
+way
+> to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+> is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to
+see
+> if it indeed exported a valid file?
+
+You can replace a zone in snowball, or make a simple application to see
+the zone. If you want, i can post a peace of code for a small app.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Dec 19 09:37:27 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBJ8bR386809
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:37:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBJ8VxA08389
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:31:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002201c18867$ac0089d0$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004101c187d3$3bcb1a20$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com> <01bd01c187f9$1132c170$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:32:19 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+There is mistakes in the previous mail,
+
+---
+
+In bind 2:
+
+> Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1,
+Patch
+> 2 }, Edge = { 0, 0 }
+
+
+Please read :
+
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 2, Patch
+1 }, Edge = { 0, 0 }
+
+
+---
+
+In bind 4:
+
+> Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1,
+Patch
+> 2, Patch 3, Patch 4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+
+Please read :
+
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 4, Patch
+3, Patch 2, Patch 1 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Wed Dec 19 17:12:42 2001
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBJGCd389382
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:12:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from psiegel@geneticanomalies.com)
+Received: from binkystick ([63.101.169.138])
+          by mistery.geneticanomalies.com (Lotus Domino Build 166.1)
+          with SMTP id 2001121911015016:8126 ;
+          Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:01:50 -0500 
+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <796C10603A1BABC685256B27003D03FD.003DA22C85256B27@geneticanomalies.com>
+Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:05:16 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+ 12/19/2001 11:01:50 AM,
+	Serialize by Router on mistery/Geneticanomalies(Release 5.0 |March 30, 1999) at
+ 12/19/2001 11:02:10 AM,
+	Serialize complete at 12/19/2001 11:02:10 AM
+Message-ID: <002401c188a6$f3cafe00$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Subject: [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Cyril to the rescue again!  (Or do you prefer Hulud?  And if so, will you
+tell me what it means?)  You know, I've gotten slower responses from
+"support" that I pay for.  My thanks again.
+
+> You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+> a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+> vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+
+Hmm, I'm not sure I parse this, but it intrigues me.  Unfortunately, my
+knowledge of height fields is even less than that of bezier patches, the
+latter of which I've only learned as I researched writing this plugin.  What
+do you mean by "the joined vertices"?  Are these the four outer corner
+vertices of a bezier patch?  And what happens to the interiors?
+
+> The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+> runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder
+> will fill them of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to
+fill the
+> CBindInfo.
+
+Thanks, the info was very helpful.  I've coppied it over into a monospaced
+text file, and it all makes sense.  I'm guessing now that the program I've
+been working with is much more simplistic than what you've had to deal with
+(though I guess it doesn't take much to be more simplistic than max!)
+
+The plugin includes the following code with which I can deal:
+
+typedef struct {
+ float x, y, z;
+} SP_Vector;
+
+typedef struct {
+ long v1, v2, v3;
+} SP_Triangle;
+
+typedef struct {
+ SP_Vector ctrlPoints[4][4];
+
+ long  numPoints, numTriangles;
+ SP_Vector *points, *normals;
+ SP_Triangle *triangles;
+} SP_Patch;
+
+void SPExportPatch(SP_Patch *patch)
+{
+ /* This function is called for each patch in a layer. */
+ /* Every patch is described as both a set of control points (for a cubic
+Bezier */
+ /* patch) and as a set of triangles - use whichever you need. */
+ }
+
+Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add some complex
+ruitines to mathematically figure out which patches are adjacent to each
+other and therefore how to bind them, or move along to another piece of
+software with hopefully better export data.  I'd really hate to do the
+former as I've actually got the thing exporting zone files (they just have
+no bind info, and would probably look like hell if I tried to use them).
+The latter though seems rather intimidating, especially with my limited
+knowledge of three dimensional geometry.
+
+Well, before I make that decision I want to be sure I understand all the
+data I need to create these patches.  I've got the vertices, tangents,
+interiors, and now the BindInfo structs.  There is also an array of
+BaseVertices in the CPatchInfo object that I don't think I understand.
+Besides that the rest of the data appears to concern coloration and tiles,
+which I'm not going to worry about yet (recall that's phase 2).  Is it valid
+though to set OrderS and OrderT to 0, and therefore only supply a single
+color for the entire patch?  Will the patch render, or will I see nothing
+until I complete phase 2 (painting the patches)?
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Wed Dec 19 18:26:26 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBJHQP389787
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:26:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBJHKvA15959
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:20:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000901c188b1$91805460$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <004101c187d3$3bcb1a20$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com> <01bd01c187f9$1132c170$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:21:17 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+Hi Paul,
+
+Forget all the ASCII parts of the 2 previous mail, here is the good way to
+fill the CPatchInfo::CBindInfo structure :
+
+---
+
+We will assume all patches in this example are oriented like this
+
+0      3
+  ***
+  *  *
+  ***
+1      2
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+      3
+    ***
+ 0 *  * 2
+    ***
+      1
+
+ ---
+
+ There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+ ---
+
+ One patch on another :
+
+ **********
+ *      *        *
+ *  0  *   1   *
+ *      *        *
+ **********
+ CBindInfo:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 1 }, Edge = { 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   2   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Bind info:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2 }, Edge = { 0,
+0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ 4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   4   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   3   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   2   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2, Patch 3, Patch
+4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+Sorry but i have been confused by the two classes called CPatch::CBindInfo
+and CPatchInfo::CBindInfo. :-)
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+From zen@lapisonline.com Thu Dec 20 08:25:46 2001
+Received: from proxy.lapisonline.com (ns1.lapisonline.com [210.65.246.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBK7Ph394555
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:25:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zen@lapisonline.com)
+Received: from blackmesa (c1-15.lapisonline.com [10.1.1.15])
+	by proxy.lapisonline.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F17C3260E
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:19:33 +0800 (CST)
+Message-ID: <001301c18926$c1ec3590$0f01010a@blackmesa>
+From: "zen" <zen@lapisonline.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:20:09 +0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C18969.CFF89230"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Subject: [Nel] precompiled header file
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C18969.CFF89230
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all!
+
+I don't know whether gcc support precompiled header or not, but =
+VisualC++ do support it. So, I suggest the VC++ workspace setting take =
+advantage of this. I've make some experiment on the 'misc' project. The =
+compiling time drop from 2 minutes to 1 minute and 30 seconds, reduced =
+about 25% , not bad.
+
+And in case you don't know how to set precompiled header file support, =
+these are the steps:
+1. Add to the project a .h file, e.g stdafx.h, which #includes those =
+common header files, particularly STL header files .
+2. Add a dumb .cpp file, e.g stdafx.cpp, which do nothing more than =
+#include "stdafx.h".
+3. Change project setting, in 'C/C++' tab 'Precompiled Headers' set it =
+to 'Use precompiled header file [.pch]' through header: stdafx.h.
+4. Change the setting of stdafx.cpp to 'Create precompiled header file =
+[.pch]'.
+5. Add every .cpp file a line #include "stdafx.h".
+6. recompile.
+
+Hope this would be helpful.
+
+Regards,
+Zen Jean
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C18969.CFF89230
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hi all!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>I don't know whether gcc support =
+precompiled=20
+header or not, but VisualC++ do support it. So, I suggest the&nbsp;VC++=20
+workspace setting take advantage of this. I've make some experiment on =
+the=20
+'misc' project. The compiling time drop from 2 minutes to 1 minute and =
+30=20
+seconds, reduced about 25% , not bad.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>And in case you don't know =
+how to set precompiled=20
+header file support, these are the steps:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>1. Add to the =
+project&nbsp;a&nbsp;.h file, e.g=20
+stdafx.h, which #includes those common header files,&nbsp;particularly =
+STL=20
+header files .</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>2. Add a dumb .cpp file, =
+e.g stdafx.cpp, which do=20
+nothing more than #include&nbsp;"stdafx.h".</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>3. Change project setting, =
+in 'C/C++' tab=20
+'Precompiled Headers' set it to 'Use precompiled header file [.pch]' =
+through=20
+header: stdafx.h.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>4. Change the setting of =
+stdafx.cpp to 'Create=20
+precompiled header file [.pch]'.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>5.&nbsp;Add every .cpp =
+file&nbsp;a line #include=20
+"stdafx.h".</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>6. recompile.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Hope this would be =
+helpful.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Zen Jean</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C18969.CFF89230--
+
+
+From sorn@dsl.upc.es Thu Dec 20 12:35:02 2001
+Received: from dsl.upc.es (dsl.upc.es [147.83.61.61])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBKBZ2r95978
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:35:02 +0100 (CET)
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+	by dsl.upc.es (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -2) with ESMTP id fBKBe9U8015390
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:40:09 +0100
+Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:40:08 +0100 (CET)
+From: David Artiga Torrijos <sorn@dsl.upc.es>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112201238050.15168-100000@dsl.upc.es>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Building Nel
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+
+When running 'bootstrap' in 'Nel' src dir, i'm getting:
+
+aclocal: configure.in: 410: macro `AM_PATH_XML' not found in library
+
+Any idea?
+Thx
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Thu Dec 20 20:09:12 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBKJ9Cw15027
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:09:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBKJ3iA27687
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:03:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:03:29 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFKECHCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <200112181215.3bac@lh00.opsion.fr>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+There are various reasons why we haven't opted for a peer to peer model.
+
+One of the most basic problems is this:
+We are trying to achieve a high level of audio-visual immersion with scenes
+in which tens or hundreds of individuals move about fluidly. The majority of
+players only have 56k modems and bandwidth is a big issue. The problem with
+peer to peer is that each player has to send and receive tens or hundreds of
+packets per scene update at a rate of several scene updates per second. The
+internet headers alone for these packets are liable to completely drown the
+modem.
+
+Internally we use kunning systems to decide which information on which
+players is relavent to send to which other players taking bandwidth
+constraints into account. This allows us to make optimum use of the
+bandwidth available.
+
+This code is tightly tied in with the game systems so I'm affraid it won't
+be released for a while yet.
+
+Daniel
+
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:16 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+
+
+--__--__--
+
+Message: 3
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+load balancing, login service, ....)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+charset="iso-8859-1"
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+
+> But how clients are balanced between the N front
+ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+(try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+>>>> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+between client (such peer to peer network, or
+distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+could be possible to connect people which interract a
+lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+to the minimum.
+
+Does i smoke too much ?
+
+nicO
+
+
+____________________________________________________________________________
+__
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From nel-list@mindcontrol.org Tue Dec 25 17:51:18 2001
+Received: from smithers.sfrn.dnai.com (smithers.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.26])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBPGpHw09009
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 17:51:17 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nel-list@mindcontrol.org)
+Received: from sideshow-mel.sfrn.dnai.com (sideshow-mel.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.19])
+	by smithers.sfrn.dnai.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id fBPGjKW61722
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:45:24 -0800 (PST)
+Received: from ns.watte.net (optiplex.b500.com [216.15.97.85])
+	by sideshow-mel.sfrn.dnai.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fBPGgOd46847
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:42:25 -0800 (PST)
+	(envelope-from nel-list@mindcontrol.org)
+Received: from JWATTELAP (10-0-2-4.b500.com [10.0.2.4])
+	by ns.watte.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03424
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:45:34 -0800
+From: "Nel List" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:45:26 -0800
+Message-ID: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLMEHPDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
+In-Reply-To: <200112241931.fBOJVSw02506@www.nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+> Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+> interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add 
+> some complex
+
+If these are Bezier patches, then the outer control points (the four
+corners) will be shared with the neighbours; two corners per 
+neighbour. This seems to me to be equivalent to finding adjacent 
+triangles using shared edges, which certainly isn't complicated math 
+(although the simplest implementation takes O(n^2) time).
+
+
+
+From nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com Wed Dec 26 13:40:49 2001
+Received: from relay-1v.club-internet.fr (relay-1v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.112])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBQCemw14841
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:40:49 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com)
+Received: from ifrance.com (vlt11-112.n.club-internet.fr [195.36.224.112])
+	by relay-1v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6AA169F
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:35:15 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3C2A18B1.46FF1048@ifrance.com>
+Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:36:33 -0500
+From: nicO <nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [fr] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.3-20mdk i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <200112251100.fBPB0Aw07343@www.nevrax.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I imagine that the data resend by the server are almost the same than
+those send by the client. It isn't possible to mix this to technics ? We
+can imagine peer to peer access for close characters to interract with a
+minimuim latency. And for the farer charaters, we can use the server and
+movement prediction (which could not be so bad because if there far, the
+characters will be small on screen).
+
+The idea behind that is to relax the pressure on the needed latency of
+the server. Does it not possible to add some more intelligence inside
+the client to predict what is usefull or not to minimize exchange ? 
+
+nicO
+
+> Subject: RE: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+> 
+> There are various reasons why we haven't opted for a peer to peer model.
+> 
+> One of the most basic problems is this:
+> We are trying to achieve a high level of audio-visual immersion with scenes
+> in which tens or hundreds of individuals move about fluidly. The majority of
+> players only have 56k modems and bandwidth is a big issue. The problem with
+> peer to peer is that each player has to send and receive tens or hundreds of
+> packets per scene update at a rate of several scene updates per second. The
+> internet headers alone for these packets are liable to completely drown the
+> modem.
+> 
+> Internally we use kunning systems to decide which information on which
+> players is relavent to send to which other players taking bandwidth
+> constraints into account. This allows us to make optimum use of the
+> bandwidth available.
+> 
+> This code is tightly tied in with the game systems so I'm affraid it won't
+> be released for a while yet.
+> 
+> Daniel
+> 
+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+> nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:16 PM
+> To: nel@nevrax.org
+> Subject: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+> 
+> -- __--__--
+> 
+> Message: 3
+> From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+> load balancing, login service, ....)
+> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+> charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+> 
+> > But how clients are balanced between the N front
+> ends of a shard ?
+> 
+> For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+> (try to have the same
+> player number on each front end).
+> 
+> >>>> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+> More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+> between client (such peer to peer network, or
+> distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+> reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+> each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+> could be possible to connect people which interract a
+> lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+> mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+> So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+> to the minimum.
+> 
+> Does i smoke too much ?
+> 
+> nicO
+>
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Dec 26 14:05:21 2001
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fBQD5Lw14992
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:05:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id fBQCxmJ04612
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:59:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003101c18e0d$38622640$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <001301c18926$c1ec3590$0f01010a@blackmesa>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] precompiled header file
+Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:59:57 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Zen,
+
+>I don't know whether gcc support precompiled header or not, but VisualC++
+do support it.
+
+We know precomp headers and we don't include it because on big project we
+already had some strange bug during compilation because of precomp headers
+so we decided to not use them because we already have lot of strange visual
+bug to don't add more.
+But we'll do a try soon and add them in the CVS if it works fine.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Jan  2 19:05:20 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g02I5Kw72484
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+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:58:42 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Nel
+Message-ID: <20020102185842.A91285@nevrax.com>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112201238050.15168-100000@dsl.upc.es>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0112201238050.15168-100000@dsl.upc.es>; from sorn@dsl.upc.es on Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 12:40:08PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi David,
+
+
+According to David Artiga Torrijos:
+> When running 'bootstrap' in 'Nel' src dir, i'm getting:
+> 
+> aclocal: configure.in: 410: macro `AM_PATH_XML' not found in library
+> 
+> Any idea?
+
+You get this error message because libxml is  not or incorectly installed,
+you have to install the devel package on GNU/Linux platforms.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Wed Jan  2 20:59:37 2002
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g02Jxaw73146
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+          Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:48:27 -0500 
+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:52:20 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
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+X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on mistery/Geneticanomalies(Release 5.0 |March 30, 1999) at
+ 01/02/2002 02:48:27 PM,
+	Serialize by Router on mistery/Geneticanomalies(Release 5.0 |March 30, 1999) at
+ 01/02/2002 02:48:34 PM,
+	Serialize complete at 01/02/2002 02:48:34 PM
+Message-ID: <016f01c193c6$fd5b20a0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Subject: [Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+I've got some zones built that I wanted to try and do the post-processing
+work on, so I went into the code\nel\tools\3d\landscape_builder directory
+and tried to follow the steps therein.  I got the three executables built
+(zone_dependencies.exe, zone_lighter.exe, and zone_welder.exe) and put them
+in the bin directory.  I put my exported zone files in the zone_exported
+directory.  Then I started running the batch files.  Everything was working
+fine until I got to 2_weld.bat.  I was quite surprised to find it contained
+only the single command:
+
+bash sh\weld.sh
+
+I noticed that 3_light.bat contained a very similar command as well.  This
+doesn't help me very much working on a Windows machine and not having a bash
+shell to execute the script with.  But never mind, I'm resourceful, I
+figured I could crack open sh\weld.sh, learn what it was doing, and recode
+2_weld.bat to do the same.
+
+Then to my horror I found that the sh directory was empty.  I double-checked
+CVS, and sure enough there are no files in the sh directory.  Where are
+these scripts?  Can someone send me them, or at least tell me what they are
+supposed to do?  Thanks.
+
+Paul
+
+
+From milou212@msn.com Thu Jan  3 04:34:11 2002
+Received: from hotmail.com (f14.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.33.85])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g033YAw76301
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+	Thu, 03 Jan 2002 03:28:28 GMT
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+From: "James Sanders" <milou212@msn.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:28:28 -0800
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
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+X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jan 2002 03:28:28.0399 (UTC) FILETIME=[B5CE37F0:01C19406]
+Subject: [Nel] Licensing Issue
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+Hello,
+     I have a question. Lets say I wrote a killer MMPOG with Nel and I 
+became a hit, not that that would happen, just hypothetically :). Now, 
+because this isn't a perfect world, what keeps a user from just recompiling 
+the code with for instance wireframing enabled to give himself an unfair 
+advantage over the other users. This is a real possibility with GPL. My 
+question is, are there any alternative licenses available? E.g., pay or 
+profit sharing in return for a closed source license. Just wondering.
+
+Thanks,
+James
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
+
+
+From milou212@msn.com Thu Jan  3 06:01:28 2002
+Received: from hotmail.com (f34.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.32.218])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0351Rw76989
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+	(envelope-from milou212@msn.com)
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+	Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:55:44 GMT
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+From: "James Sanders" <milou212@msn.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Licensing Issue
+Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:55:44 -0800
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
+Message-ID: <F34bUCwBp9evGMVJ7An0000229a@hotmail.com>
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+As an amendment, if the server is not distributed, is it therefore not 
+covered under the GPL and can be closed source? Not trying to be difficult, 
+just curious. Thanks again.
+James
+
+
+>From: "James Sanders" <milou212@msn.com>
+>Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+>To: nel@nevrax.org
+>Subject: [Nel] Licensing Issue
+>Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:28:28 -0800
+>
+>Hello,
+>     I have a question. Lets say I wrote a killer MMPOG with Nel and I
+>became a hit, not that that would happen, just hypothetically :). Now,
+>because this isn't a perfect world, what keeps a user from just recompiling
+>the code with for instance wireframing enabled to give himself an unfair
+>advantage over the other users. This is a real possibility with GPL. My
+>question is, are there any alternative licenses available? E.g., pay or
+>profit sharing in return for a closed source license. Just wondering.
+>
+>Thanks,
+>James
+>
+>_________________________________________________________________
+>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Jan  3 10:16:22 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g039GMw78428
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:16:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g039AjJ46741
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:10:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001101c19436$93884250$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <016f01c193c6$fd5b20a0$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:11:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Paul,
+
+You can use landscape_builder to build the landscape. But this tools is now 
+deprecated and will not be supported in the futur.
+
+We have unified the export / bulid process for all NeL 3d media. It is done
+in the folder build_gamedata. It provids for each NeL 3d media type, an
+export process (from 3dsmax or directly from the artist database), a build 
+process to make the final data and an install process to copy data into the 
+final client directories. All is done with batch files. Each process is 
+incremental, i-e, build only modified data.
+
+In build_gamedata/processes/, you will find the build environement for
+each NeL3d media. In build_gamedata/cfg/ you will find some 
+configuration files.
+
+In build_gamedata/processes/zone, you will find a build environnement 
+for the landscape very close to landscape_builder.
+
+> I was quite surprised to find it contained only the single command:
+> 
+> bash sh\weld.sh
+
+We use the cygwin toolkit to build the landscape under windows and it 
+works well.
+
+http://www.cygwin.com
+
+> Then to my horror I found that the sh directory was empty.  I double-checked
+> CVS, and sure enough there are no files in the sh directory.  Where are
+> these scripts?  Can someone send me them, or at least tell me what they are
+> supposed to do?  Thanks.
+
+Yes, the scripts was missing ! Sorry for this. It should be ok now.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jan  3 10:54:49 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g039snw78647
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001a01c1943b$e5f3dc70$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <F14voFOAmEaJswFCHOz0001894a@hotmail.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Licensing Issue
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:49:12 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi James,
+
+>      I have a question. Lets say I wrote a killer MMPOG with Nel and I
+> became a hit, not that that would happen, just hypothetically :). Now,
+> because this isn't a perfect world, what keeps a user from just
+recompiling
+> the code with for instance wireframing enabled to give himself an unfair
+> advantage over the other users. This is a real possibility with GPL. My
+> question is, are there any alternative licenses available? E.g., pay or
+> profit sharing in return for a closed source license. Just wondering.
+
+Enabling wireframe in game was already done in games like Quake or Counter
+Strike and these games are *not* GPL so the problem is not a GPL problem but
+a generic one that is: You can't know what the player will do with the
+client. To resolve this problem, you can send to the client only visible
+entities or change your gameplay to disable the avantage to see across the
+wall.
+
+For now, NeL is available only on the GPL licence.
+
+> As an amendment, if the server is not distributed, is it therefore not
+> covered under the GPL and can be closed source?
+
+The GPL licence says that you have to give the source of your program to
+anybody who ask you only if you distribute your program.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From nel-list@mindcontrol.org Thu Jan  3 17:59:40 2002
+Received: from moe.sfrn.dnai.com (moe.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g03Gxdw81149
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:59:39 +0100 (CET)
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+From: "Nel List" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:53:53 -0800
+Message-ID: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
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+In-Reply-To: <200201031101.g03B12w79039@www.nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> I noticed that 3_light.bat contained a very similar command as well.  This
+> doesn't help me very much working on a Windows machine and not
+> having a bash
+
+You might want to get Cygwin and install it. It runs fine on
+Win98 and Win2k, and comes with bash and all the usual shell tools.
+
+Another goodie to get for your Windows box is perl (typically, from
+the ActivePerl distribution).
+
+
+> >because this isn't a perfect world, what keeps a user from just
+> recompiling
+> >the code with for instance wireframing enabled to give himself an unfair
+> >advantage over the other users. This is a real possibility with GPL. My
+
+If the data goes over the wire to the user's machine, it is visible
+to an enterprising user (witness ShowEQ). Re-compiling the client
+doesn't change this in any real way (as long as all decisions are
+made on the server).
+
+
+> We have unified the export / bulid process for all NeL 3d media.
+
+What I've found lacking the most when looking through the NeL sources
+is simply documentation on how to build and use it; especially under
+Windows. There's all kinds of miscellaneous DSW files scattered over
+the source tree, and nowhere does it say which ones should be built,
+in what order, or what the other requisite tools/libraries needed are.
+
+
+> Yes, the scripts was missing ! Sorry for this. It should be ok now.
+
+Does this mean you don't have an automated daily build? Having a
+machine that checks out a clean source into an empty directory, and
+turns the crank to build the real product, is a must-have for any
+engineering organization. You may find that if your build is too
+complicated to get that going, effort you put into fixing that may
+improve the issue above, too.
+
+
+
+
+From zane@supernova.org Thu Jan  3 18:19:57 2002
+Received: from xchnghq2.mmsa.com (xchngq2.mmsa.com [205.227.150.22] (may be forged))
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+From: "Zane" <zane@supernova.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:09:24 -0800
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+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Nel List" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 8:53 AM
+
+
+
+> Does this mean you don't have an automated daily build? Having a
+> machine that checks out a clean source into an empty directory, and
+> turns the crank to build the real product, is a must-have for any
+> engineering organization. You may find that if your build is too
+> complicated to get that going, effort you put into fixing that may
+> improve the issue above, too.
+
+Yes, that's what it means.  In the past I was updating and recompiling NeL
+daily but about 50% of the time it wouldn't compile due to errors checked
+into CVS.  Cross-file errors I can understand in a large project with
+multiple developers.  Typos or ommisions that cause the code to be
+incompilable I can't, it's a major annoyance.
+
+Anyway, I'm lucky to get the code at all. :)
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Jan  3 19:09:53 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+Message-ID: <006f01c19481$1b1c0e00$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:04:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+Hi,
+
+> What I've found lacking the most when looking through the NeL sources
+> is simply documentation on how to build and use it; especially under
+> Windows. There's all kinds of miscellaneous DSW files scattered over
+> the source tree, and nowhere does it say which ones should be built,
+> in what order, or what the other requisite tools/libraries needed are.
+
+Yes, you're right. We know that the lack of documentation is a problem.
+Be sure that it will be solved in a near future when we will stabilise a 
+NeL version. For the moment, we are taken by internal deadline.
+
+> > Yes, the scripts was missing ! Sorry for this. It should be ok now.
+> 
+> Does this mean you don't have an automated daily build? Having a
+> machine that checks out a clean source into an empty directory, and
+> turns the crank to build the real product, is a must-have for any
+> engineering organization. You may find that if your build is too
+> complicated to get that going, effort you put into fixing that may
+> improve the issue above, too.
+
+Please, note that those sources was deprecated. It means, we don't use it anymore.
+
+Can you please put your name in your messages ? It is a must-have for any user of this list.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+---
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Thu Jan  3 19:11:49 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+Message-ID: <007001c19481$602d5440$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org> <00e101c19479$64c6fa40$9d3312ac@hq.mmsa.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:06:32 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+> Yes, that's what it means.  In the past I was updating and recompiling NeL
+> daily but about 50% of the time it wouldn't compile due to errors checked
+> into CVS.  Cross-file errors I can understand in a large project with
+> multiple developers.  Typos or ommisions that cause the code to be
+> incompilable I can't, it's a major annoyance.
+
+Yes, sometimes sources on the CVS doesn't compile under linux. It comes
+from 2 main reasons:
+
+1) Most of NeL developpement is done under Windows and rarely under linux. 
+(Some network guys do it..). Sometimes, you're right, sources checked into
+the CVS doesn't compile under linux, but very rarley under windows.
+We have automatic rebuild systems at Nevrax, but sometimes errors pass thru.
+
+2) The CVS is updated with a daily snapshot and not a stabilized / tested / 
+compiled version.
+
+But be sure that for our internal developement, the CVS is always consisting.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Thu Jan  3 20:15:01 2002
+Received: from smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (smtp1-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.116])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g03JExw82246
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:15:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from tony ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp1.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA3976378
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 14:09:21 -0500 (EST)
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 14:09:32 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+Message-Id: <20020103140932.7c24b7d0.ahoyt@packetport.com>
+In-Reply-To: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+References: <200201031101.g03B12w79039@www.nevrax.org>
+	<HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+Organization: PacketPort.com Inc.
+X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.6.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.9; sparc-sun-solaris2.7)
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+"Nel List" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org> wrote:
+> > >because this isn't a perfect world, what keeps a user from just
+> > recompiling
+> > >the code with for instance wireframing enabled to give himself an
+> > >unfair advantage over the other users. This is a real possibility
+> > >with GPL. My
+> 
+> If the data goes over the wire to the user's machine, it is visible
+> to an enterprising user (witness ShowEQ). Re-compiling the client
+> doesn't change this in any real way (as long as all decisions are
+> made on the server).
+
+  Some possable results of allowing the client to be released to the
+general public have been disccused before.  I believe someone here
+published a link to a website discussing this very issue, focusing on
+two key problems with open source clients.  And this is no matter what
+format you end up following, includeing the complete "Only send client
+location of things local to the player, and only the bare bones data as
+well (Location, moveing, apperence, and health in % for the case of a
+RPG style online game)
+
+  1) Radars: These are specialy dangerous for Player vs Player combat.
+since it can allow someone to know instantly 1) Who are your enemies
+around you, 2) How much health they have, and depending on how clever
+the hacker is 3) how strong the player is vs you.  The last bit of data
+comes from the fact that some online games offer you some clue as the
+level of the people around you, as well as monsters for your
+information.  This kind of information can lead to unfair advantages. 
+In Dark Age of Camelot, which is said to have taken the minimalist
+apporach to sending data to players, even they have recently had
+concernes about such "radar" 3rd party applications.   ShowEQ is all
+about this, and exploits the fact that the game sends all monsters spawn
+information to the client constantly.  Although not Player spawn
+information unless local to the player.
+
+ 2) Auto-aimers: This doesn't sound like it could be a problem on say
+MMORPG's but it can be if it means players can auto-target the weakest
+player in a Player vs Player conflict and constantly attack them.
+Auto-targeting is still a problem here, no matter where it came from.
+
+   2a) Derived from this we get, Auto-Clickers or in other words,
+applications that automaticly perform repedative actions or  a macro of
+complex actins.  Perhaps, again in a RPG setting,  a healer could then
+put all his healing action onto a long string of intelligent macros that
+will watch some players health levels, and then auto-send a heal command
+at say 40% loss.  That's a combination of auto-targeting and
+auto-commands.  Reverse this for Combat mages,  Auto-targeting for spell
+attacks.. You get the idea.
+
+  2b) The final and worse form of this, Bots.  Auto-hunters that can run
+around, and hunt for players hour after hour without the player actually
+being there or only occasionaly monitoring.  Quite unfair from my stand
+point.
+
+  Now that's enough examples at the moment.  As you can say, and as the
+article said before (I wish I had the link) This problem is quite
+serious even if the source is not released.  Packet sniffing and reverse
+engineering will always result in the hackers discovering everything
+they need to know to make there tools work.
+
+  Possable solutions. These just came to me.  These will only work in a
+closed source solution.
+
+  1) Re-arrange the order of data in the packets every build or whenever
+you can.  This forces the hackers to re-sniff and learn all your packets
+again each time you come out with a new version of the client.
+
+  2) Update/change your encription: Again, they will discover what you
+are using, and just changeing one of the keys won't be enough.  I don't
+know a whole lot about encription but hopefully there's something that
+can be done to perlong the chance that the hackers will be successfull. 
+Please note that even this method is not invulnerable to de-compileing
+the application.
+
+  3) Change the ports you use for communication: Again a delaying tactic
+at best.  It's not a great solution but, it's better then nothing.   You
+can get really fancy with this, and make the port the client connects to
+the server for game data the result of a function based off of data sent
+from the 'connection' port and user data.  That idea may only work with
+tcp/ip though.
+
+  There are a thousand tactics you can use.  But all of them are simply
+slowing measure to prevent hacking.  Hackers are only successful nine
+times out of ten because the client never changes for long periods of
+time, and when it does change, changes only very minorly so.  This
+makeing it easy for a  hacker with enough time on his hands, (Or on the
+hands of a small team of them) to decode the packets, and then engineer
+a soultion to decode the packets for there own use.  ShowEQ is the best
+result of such a product (http://www.sourceforge.com/projects/seq)  The
+most trouble they ever have, is when the packets change size slightly,
+or the encription changes.   Other then that, it knows everything about
+anything that goes on.
+
+  Tony
+
+> 
+> 
+> > We have unified the export / bulid process for all NeL 3d media.
+> 
+> What I've found lacking the most when looking through the NeL sources
+> is simply documentation on how to build and use it; especially under
+> Windows. There's all kinds of miscellaneous DSW files scattered over
+> the source tree, and nowhere does it say which ones should be built,
+> in what order, or what the other requisite tools/libraries needed are.
+> 
+> 
+> > Yes, the scripts was missing ! Sorry for this. It should be ok now.
+> 
+> Does this mean you don't have an automated daily build? Having a
+> machine that checks out a clean source into an empty directory, and
+> turns the crank to build the real product, is a must-have for any
+> engineering organization. You may find that if your build is too
+> complicated to get that going, effort you put into fixing that may
+> improve the issue above, too.
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+From zager@teleaction.com Thu Jan  3 21:44:23 2002
+Received: from jupiter.augur.de (jupiter.teleaction.de [194.149.245.1])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g03KiMw83191
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:44:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from zager@teleaction.com)
+Received: from zager ([194.149.245.62])
+	by jupiter.augur.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA14427
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:38:31 +0100 (MET)
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:40:31 +0100
+From: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Business
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-ID: <4296816864.20020103214031@teleaction.de>
+To: Tony Hoyt <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+In-reply-To: <20020103140932.7c24b7d0.ahoyt@packetport.com>
+References: <200201031101.g03B12w79039@www.nevrax.org>
+ <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+ <20020103140932.7c24b7d0.ahoyt@packetport.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+IMHO,  cheating  is bad only then ones try to increase his stat's points: Health,
+Power, Mana, etc. But this kind of cheating prevents by server-side decision making (I
+hope)
+Other  kind  of  tools like radars, wire framing, auto targeting, etc., etc. are
+not  cheats  but features ;) Just provide enough of such tools as default set to the end user
+and    he   will   be   happy   to  use  it, moreover telling the user which
+helper   means  are  activated  by  his opponent will help him to adjust
+his  behavior according to the current situation. The main point is - if two
+opponents  has wire framing, auto targeting and healing switched on it's no more
+cheating, but additional weapon which everyone can use without additional cost.
+If you will provide API for creating bots, what will be the reason to create hunting
+bot if your opponent will launch hunting-bots bot or just defence bot?
+So,  prevent your game from Games Stat cheating, open it for hacking and extending and
+game   balance   will  be  achieved by users themselves. It's just like  USA vs
+Soviets  -  you  and  your  counterpart has enough of atom bombs to destroy each
+other  but you are in the state of balance so you play everyday Game according to the
+"normal" rules.
+
+
+Thursday, January 03, 2002, 8:09:32 PM, you wrote:
+
+TH> "Nel List" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org> wrote:
+>> > >because this isn't a perfect world, what keeps a user from just
+>> > recompiling
+>> > >the code with for instance wireframing enabled to give himself an
+>> > >unfair advantage over the other users. This is a real possibility
+>> > >with GPL. My
+>> 
+>> If the data goes over the wire to the user's machine, it is visible
+>> to an enterprising user (witness ShowEQ). Re-compiling the client
+>> doesn't change this in any real way (as long as all decisions are
+>> made on the server).
+
+TH>   Some possable results of allowing the client to be released to the
+TH> general public have been disccused before.  I believe someone here
+TH> published a link to a website discussing this very issue, focusing on
+TH> two key problems with open source clients.  And this is no matter what
+TH> format you end up following, includeing the complete "Only send client
+TH> location of things local to the player, and only the bare bones data as
+TH> well (Location, moveing, apperence, and health in % for the case of a
+TH> RPG style online game)
+
+TH>   1) Radars: These are specialy dangerous for Player vs Player combat.
+TH> since it can allow someone to know instantly 1) Who are your enemies
+TH> around you, 2) How much health they have, and depending on how clever
+TH> the hacker is 3) how strong the player is vs you.  The last bit of data
+TH> comes from the fact that some online games offer you some clue as the
+TH> level of the people around you, as well as monsters for your
+TH> information.  This kind of information can lead to unfair advantages. 
+TH> In Dark Age of Camelot, which is said to have taken the minimalist
+TH> apporach to sending data to players, even they have recently had
+TH> concernes about such "radar" 3rd party applications.   ShowEQ is all
+TH> about this, and exploits the fact that the game sends all monsters spawn
+TH> information to the client constantly.  Although not Player spawn
+TH> information unless local to the player.
+
+TH>  2) Auto-aimers: This doesn't sound like it could be a problem on say
+TH> MMORPG's but it can be if it means players can auto-target the weakest
+TH> player in a Player vs Player conflict and constantly attack them.
+TH> Auto-targeting is still a problem here, no matter where it came from.
+
+TH>    2a) Derived from this we get, Auto-Clickers or in other words,
+TH> applications that automaticly perform repedative actions or  a macro of
+TH> complex actins.  Perhaps, again in a RPG setting,  a healer could then
+TH> put all his healing action onto a long string of intelligent macros that
+TH> will watch some players health levels, and then auto-send a heal command
+TH> at say 40% loss.  That's a combination of auto-targeting and
+TH> auto-commands.  Reverse this for Combat mages,  Auto-targeting for spell
+TH> attacks.. You get the idea.
+
+TH>   2b) The final and worse form of this, Bots.  Auto-hunters that can run
+TH> around, and hunt for players hour after hour without the player actually
+TH> being there or only occasionaly monitoring.  Quite unfair from my stand
+TH> point.
+
+TH>   Now that's enough examples at the moment.  As you can say, and as the
+TH> article said before (I wish I had the link) This problem is quite
+TH> serious even if the source is not released.  Packet sniffing and reverse
+TH> engineering will always result in the hackers discovering everything
+TH> they need to know to make there tools work.
+
+TH>   Possable solutions. These just came to me.  These will only work in a
+TH> closed source solution.
+
+TH>   1) Re-arrange the order of data in the packets every build or whenever
+TH> you can.  This forces the hackers to re-sniff and learn all your packets
+TH> again each time you come out with a new version of the client.
+
+TH>   2) Update/change your encription: Again, they will discover what you
+TH> are using, and just changeing one of the keys won't be enough.  I don't
+TH> know a whole lot about encription but hopefully there's something that
+TH> can be done to perlong the chance that the hackers will be successfull. 
+TH> Please note that even this method is not invulnerable to de-compileing
+TH> the application.
+
+TH>   3) Change the ports you use for communication: Again a delaying tactic
+TH> at best.  It's not a great solution but, it's better then nothing.   You
+TH> can get really fancy with this, and make the port the client connects to
+TH> the server for game data the result of a function based off of data sent
+TH> from the 'connection' port and user data.  That idea may only work with
+TH> tcp/ip though.
+
+TH>   There are a thousand tactics you can use.  But all of them are simply
+TH> slowing measure to prevent hacking.  Hackers are only successful nine
+TH> times out of ten because the client never changes for long periods of
+TH> time, and when it does change, changes only very minorly so.  This
+TH> makeing it easy for a  hacker with enough time on his hands, (Or on the
+TH> hands of a small team of them) to decode the packets, and then engineer
+TH> a soultion to decode the packets for there own use.  ShowEQ is the best
+TH> result of such a product (http://www.sourceforge.com/projects/seq)  The
+TH> most trouble they ever have, is when the packets change size slightly,
+TH> or the encription changes.   Other then that, it knows everything about
+TH> anything that goes on.
+
+TH>   Tony
+
+>> 
+>> 
+>> > We have unified the export / bulid process for all NeL 3d media.
+>> 
+>> What I've found lacking the most when looking through the NeL sources
+>> is simply documentation on how to build and use it; especially under
+>> Windows. There's all kinds of miscellaneous DSW files scattered over
+>> the source tree, and nowhere does it say which ones should be built,
+>> in what order, or what the other requisite tools/libraries needed are.
+>> 
+>> 
+>> > Yes, the scripts was missing ! Sorry for this. It should be ok now.
+>> 
+>> Does this mean you don't have an automated daily build? Having a
+>> machine that checks out a clean source into an empty directory, and
+>> turns the crank to build the real product, is a must-have for any
+>> engineering organization. You may find that if your build is too
+>> complicated to get that going, effort you put into fixing that may
+>> improve the issue above, too.
+>> 
+>> 
+>> 
+>> _______________________________________________
+>> Nel mailing list
+>> Nel@nevrax.org
+>> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+TH> _______________________________________________
+TH> Nel mailing list
+TH> Nel@nevrax.org
+TH> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+From mbresnah@visi.com Fri Jan  4 04:56:03 2002
+Received: from brea.mc.mpls.visi.com (brea.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.100])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g043u2w16763
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 04:56:02 +0100 (CET)
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+From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah@visi.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:50:55 -0800
+Message-ID: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGEENCDAAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
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+Subject: [Nel] NeL Build Problems
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+Hello, everyone.  I am brand new to Nevrax and I am having troubles with my
+first build.
+
+I have downloaded and built STLPort and FreeType 2 without much trouble, but
+I have been unable to build NeL.  When I open the workspace file (nel.dsw)
+with Visual C++ 6.0 SP5 it contains no projects.  What's up with that?
+
+Ideally, I would like to build NeL with Cygwin.  I still want to use the
+Visual C++ compiler, but I want to use bash, GNU make, etc. that come with
+Cygwin.  Has anyone accomplished this?  It looks like a whole project to get
+it to work.  First off, NeL makes use of autoconf and libtool, and these
+tools are in a state of flux on Cygwin.  It appears that the only working
+libtool on Cygwin requires autoconf 2.52.  Which version does NeL use?
+
+Mike
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Jan  4 10:54:11 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g049sAw19067
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+Message-ID: <001e01c19504$f8ba95f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGEENCDAAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Build Problems
+Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:48:32 +0100
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Mike,
+
+> I have downloaded and built STLPort and FreeType 2 without much trouble,
+but
+> I have been unable to build NeL.  When I open the workspace file (nel.dsw)
+> with Visual C++ 6.0 SP5 it contains no projects.  What's up with that?
+
+No project in the nel.dsw??? Too strange, we use it everyday and we have
+project on it.
+Open the nel.dsw in a notepad and look if the link to the .dsp are there or
+not.
+Look if the .dsp path/file are good. Don't know what to do more.
+
+> Ideally, I would like to build NeL with Cygwin.  I still want to use the
+> Visual C++ compiler, but I want to use bash, GNU make, etc. that come with
+> Cygwin.  Has anyone accomplished this?  It looks like a whole project to
+get
+> it to work.  First off, NeL makes use of autoconf and libtool, and these
+> tools are in a state of flux on Cygwin.  It appears that the only working
+> libtool on Cygwin requires autoconf 2.52.  Which version does NeL use?
+
+We only work on windows with Visual C++ so I don't think it compiles well on
+cygwin but if you want to try :) good luck.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Fri Jan  4 11:48:02 2002
+Received: from einhorn.in-berlin.de (einhorn.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.8])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:42:57 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+References: <200201031101.g03B12w79039@www.nevrax.org>
+	<HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLEELDDAAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+	<20020103140932.7c24b7d0.ahoyt@packetport.com>
+	<4296816864.20020103214031@teleaction.de>
+From: Lars Weber <me@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Date: 04 Jan 2002 11:42:57 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <4296816864.20020103214031@teleaction.de>
+Message-ID: <873d1mtn0u.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 26
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+
+Dim Segebart <zager@teleaction.com> wrote:
+
+> IMHO, cheating is bad only then ones try to increase his stat's points:
+> Health, Power, Mana, etc. But this kind of cheating prevents by
+> server-side decision making (I hope) Other kind of tools like radars,
+> wire framing, auto targeting, etc., etc. are not cheats but features ;)
+[...]
+
+Problem is: there are quite a few people (including me) that would rather
+like to see nice landscapes instead of boring wireframe graphics[0] :-)
+
+(And I wouldn't want to use things like auto-aim/unlimited health/what-
+have-you, either -- there actually exist people that cannot understand
+that... to me it's completely the other way around!)
+
+Regards,
+Lars
+
+[0] Not to say anything bad about games using wireframe graphics!  But
+when there are actually nice landscapes available... the one screenshot
+I've seen of Ryzom(sp?) really looked awesome!
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]-------< me@lars.in-berlin.de >-----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From mbresnah@visi.com Fri Jan  4 12:13:14 2002
+Received: from brea.mc.mpls.visi.com (brea.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.100])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g04BDEw19647
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+From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah@visi.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] NeL Build Problems
+Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 05:08:06 -0800
+Message-ID: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGIENJDAAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> > I have downloaded and built STLPort and FreeType 2 without much trouble,
+> but
+> > I have been unable to build NeL.  When I open the workspace
+> file (nel.dsw)
+> > with Visual C++ 6.0 SP5 it contains no projects.  What's up with that?
+>
+> No project in the nel.dsw??? Too strange, we use it everyday and we have
+> project on it.
+> Open the nel.dsw in a notepad and look if the link to the .dsp
+> are there or
+> not.
+> Look if the .dsp path/file are good. Don't know what to do more.
+
+Ha!  I think I've found the problem.  The visual studio files are using \n
+for line endings instead of CR LF.  This was probably caused by the fact
+that I'm using the Cygwin version of cvs.
+
+> > Ideally, I would like to build NeL with Cygwin.  I still want to use the
+> > Visual C++ compiler, but I want to use bash, GNU make, etc.
+> that come with
+> > Cygwin.  Has anyone accomplished this?  It looks like a whole project to
+> get
+> > it to work.  First off, NeL makes use of autoconf and libtool, and these
+> > tools are in a state of flux on Cygwin.  It appears that the
+> only working
+> > libtool on Cygwin requires autoconf 2.52.  Which version does NeL use?
+>
+> We only work on windows with Visual C++ so I don't think it
+> compiles well on
+> cygwin but if you want to try :) good luck.
+
+Yeah, there are a lot of issues.  I've gotten as far as getting STLPort and
+freetype2 to compile on Cygwin using the microsoft compiler.  Interestly, if
+you specify CC=cl to configure, libtool uses Microsoft lib to preform
+library creation, rather than ar.  I'm clueless how libtool figured this
+out.
+
+Mike
+
+
+From hplus@mindcontrol.org Fri Jan  4 19:57:50 2002
+Received: from barney.sfrn.dnai.com (barney.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.24])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g04Ivnw79232
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:57:49 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:51:48 -0800 (PST)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:52:04 -0800
+From: "Jon Watte" <hplus@mindcontrol.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:52:01 -0800
+Message-ID: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLMEMKDAAA.hplus@mindcontrol.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <200201041101.g04B12w19570@www.nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+>   2b) The final and worse form of this, Bots.  Auto-hunters that can run
+> around, and hunt for players hour after hour without the player actually
+> being there or only occasionaly monitoring.  Quite unfair from my stand
+> point.
+
+If this is a real problem, you should ask yourself what your game 
+offers a real human being to actually enjoy. If the game is reducible 
+to a simple series of scripted actions (or even a complex series of 
+scripted actions) then it'll become monotonic for a human sooner rather 
+than later. Witness EQ: if you didn't have the human communication 
+element, it would SUCK as a game.
+
+>   Possable solutions. These just came to me.  These will only work in a
+> closed source solution.
+
+Security through obscurity doesn't work.
+
+>   1) Re-arrange the order of data in the packets every build or whenever
+
+This leads to much more testing for you, and only deters hackers a short 
+while when you update the version. It doesn't work over time. (Verant does 
+it for EQ -- ShowEQ still lives)
+
+>   2) Update/change your encription: Again, they will discover what you
+> are using, and just changeing one of the keys won't be enough.  I don't
+
+This leads to much more testing for you, and only deters hackers a short 
+while when you update the version. It doesn't work over time. (Verant does 
+it for EQ -- ShowEQ still lives)
+
+>   3) Change the ports you use for communication: Again a delaying tactic
+> at best.  It's not a great solution but, it's better then nothing.   You
+
+This is not even a delaying tactic. Any packet sniffer will show you 
+what the new port is, and changing that constant in the radar app is 
+going to be a simple re-compile. If you do it a lot, and I was writing 
+a radar app, I'd just have the radar app sniff the network and look at 
+all UDP packets, and figure out what the port is automatically. It's 
+so weak as to be fully ineffective.
+
+Proper design and tight server-side control is the only way to avoid 
+hacking users to have an advantage over non-hacking users.
+
+-- Jon
+
+PS: To the others replying on the list: PLEASE don't quote the ENTIRE 
+messages. It's quite annoying in digest mode.
+
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Fri Jan  4 20:27:14 2002
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g04JRDw79477
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:21:34 -0500 (EST)
+Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:21:46 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+Message-Id: <20020104142146.00963d19.ahoyt@packetport.com>
+In-Reply-To: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLMEMKDAAA.hplus@mindcontrol.org>
+References: <200201041101.g04B12w19570@www.nevrax.org>
+	<HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLMEMKDAAA.hplus@mindcontrol.org>
+Organization: PacketPort.com Inc.
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+"Jon Watte" <hplus@mindcontrol.org> wrote:
+
+> If this is a real problem, you should ask yourself what your game 
+> offers a real human being to actually enjoy. If the game is reducible 
+> to a simple series of scripted actions (or even a complex series of 
+> scripted actions) then it'll become monotonic for a human sooner
+> rather than later. Witness EQ: if you didn't have the human
+> communication element, it would SUCK as a game.
+
+  This problem is evident in all games, From Quake to Dark Age of
+Camelot.  I spoke to a man who claimed to have develop a dual bot
+application, where computers, playing a game with two accounts, had the
+two characters work in sync to automaticly fight in a small area over..
+and over.. and over.  He took the work out and just recieved all the
+reward.  Now if you believe this claim, and I can't say honestly I have
+any real evidence that his claim is true, I would be seriously concerned
+about this kind of player.   True, it took a lot of work to make the
+bot, but once done, this guy, can leave the bot alone to successfully
+advance his characters without much intervention.  That's just plain
+unfair in my book.  Little work for a great deal of reward. 
+
+> Security through obscurity doesn't work.
+
+  The the examples I gave where really just simple ideas to just like
+you said, Slow them down a little.  To make this soulution work would
+require you to constantly make these changes on at least a weekly
+basises.  In other words, constantly updateding the packets, the
+encription, etc.  And a lot of this could be done without much testing
+between builds at all.  This would then make the whole process much more
+annoying to reverse engineer.  I'm not saying that you should trust the
+client more even after these tacktics, it's just you as the developer
+should at least feel a little better that these simple tactics will at
+least give them constant headaches.  But there's almost nothing you can
+do to stop them.
+
+> Proper design and tight server-side control is the only way to avoid 
+> hacking users to have an advantage over non-hacking users.
+
+  This is true, and this was implyed(sp) from the begining.  I'm just
+trying to offer ways to help deter hackers,  But when you got 100
+people, many of them working together out to cheat and create these
+applications then your going to face an uphill battle no matter what. 
+You must address it strongly with clear design that can address the
+issue without much impact to development and testing, or embrace it in
+some fashion.  Then again you could just make it not worth it at all and
+have a non-game chat world.  Then there's no point in doing anything but
+just have fun. :-)
+
+> PS: To the others replying on the list: PLEASE don't quote the ENTIRE 
+> messages. It's quite annoying in digest mode.
+
+  That was an honest mistake, I ment to remove the text from the end in
+my last post, sorry.
+
+  Tony
+
+From psiegel@geneticanomalies.com Fri Jan  4 23:37:19 2002
+Received: from mistery.geneticanomalies.com ([63.101.169.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g04MbIw80846
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+          Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:26:19 -0500 
+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:29:56 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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+	Serialize by Router on mistery/Geneticanomalies(Release 5.0 |March 30, 1999) at
+ 01/04/2002 05:26:26 PM,
+	Serialize complete at 01/04/2002 05:26:26 PM
+Message-ID: <000901c1956f$56937f60$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Subject: [Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hmm, I was compiling NeL just fine a couple days ago.  Today I decided to
+re-get all the code from CVS and clean and rebuild the whole project.  Under
+any configuration, it starts compiling the misc project, and gets as far as
+bsphere.cpp when I suddenly start getting these errors:
+
+bsphere.cpp
+fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+        (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+         Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+         Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+information
+geom_ext.cpp
+fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+        (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+         Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+         Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+information
+line.cpp
+fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+        (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+         Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+         Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+information
+
+You get the idea, it gives this error for every file left in the project.
+I'm running VC6 sp5.  Anyone got any idea why this would happen?
+
+Paul
+
+
+From nhognon@noos.fr Fri Jan  4 23:47:11 2002
+Received: from smtp.noos.fr (claudel.noos.net [212.198.2.83])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g04MlBw81009
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:47:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nhognon@noos.fr)
+Received: (qmail 4350006 invoked by uid 0); 4 Jan 2002 22:41:28 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO bobsmith) ([212.198.184.66]) (envelope-sender <nhognon@noos.fr>)
+          by 212.198.2.83 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 4 Jan 2002 22:41:28 -0000
+Message-ID: <005501c19571$3a415dd0$42b8c6d4@bobsmith>
+From: "Nicolas Hognon \(noos\)" <nhognon@noos.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000901c1956f$56937f60$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:43:27 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+have you installed the last service pack for visual ?
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 11:29 PM
+Subject: [Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+
+
+> Hmm, I was compiling NeL just fine a couple days ago.  Today I decided to
+> re-get all the code from CVS and clean and rebuild the whole project.  Under
+> any configuration, it starts compiling the misc project, and gets as far as
+> bsphere.cpp when I suddenly start getting these errors:
+> 
+> bsphere.cpp
+> fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+>         (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+>          Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+>          Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+> information
+> geom_ext.cpp
+> fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+>         (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+>          Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+>          Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+> information
+> line.cpp
+> fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+>         (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+>          Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+>          Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+> information
+> 
+> You get the idea, it gives this error for every file left in the project.
+> I'm running VC6 sp5.  Anyone got any idea why this would happen?
+> 
+> Paul
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+From mbresnah@visi.com Fri Jan  4 23:53:45 2002
+Received: from brea.mc.mpls.visi.com (brea.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.100])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g04Mriw81112
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 23:53:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from mbresnah@visi.com)
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+	by brea.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 017E62DDEF1
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri,  4 Jan 2002 16:48:05 -0600 (CST)
+From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah@visi.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:48:35 -0800
+Message-ID: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGMEPFDAAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
+Subject: [Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Something about the interaction between my cvs client (CVS 1.11 on Cygwin)
+and the nevrax CVS server is causing the line endings to be translated from
+CR LF to NL.  As a result, Visual C++ can't make sense of the workspace and
+project files (*.dsw,*.dsp).  I don't have this problem with sourceforge,
+but they use the ssh protocol instead of pserver.  Has anyone else
+encountered this problem?  Found a fix?
+
+Mike
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Sat Jan  5 14:15:25 2002
+Received: from mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-6.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g05DFOw88400
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:15:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
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+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 05 Jan 2002 14:09:41 +0100
+Message-ID: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 39
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello all NeL developers and users,
+
+I'm trying to compile NeL on debian woody/testing 3.0.
+
+First of all, here is the list of needed packages :
+ libxml2-dev libttf-dev autoconf automake libtool flex bison
+ python1.5-dev xlibmesa-dev
+
+However, both STLport4.5 and OpenAL (from cvs) should be installed
+manually.
+
+Here is my configure :
+./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --enable-sound --enable-ai --disable-xmltest --with-openal=/usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0/
+
+
+Now, the bad news: the compilation in nel/ fails.
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/include/libxml2/libxml -I/usr/include/libxml2 -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport -O3 -ftemplate-depth-24 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/mutex.pp -c mutex.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mutex.lo
+mutex.cpp: In method `NLMISC::CUnfairMutex::CUnfairMutex(const _STL::string &)':
+mutex.cpp:246: `PTHREAD_MUTEX_FAST_NP' undeclared (first use this function)
+mutex.cpp:246: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
+mutex.cpp:246: for each function it appears in.)
+make[3]: *** [mutex.lo] Error 1
+make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/david/pub/NeL/code/nel/src/misc'
+make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/david/pub/NeL/code/nel/src/misc'
+make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/david/pub/NeL/code/nel/src'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+
+I've not found this symbol in .c nor .h. Is it a standard symbol that
+should be included (from STLport ?) or is it an forgotten NeL symbol?
+
+Hope I'm not doing something stupid.
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Sat Jan  5 15:25:06 2002
+Received: from mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-3.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.233])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g05EP5w88742
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:25:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from villosa.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.122) by mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr; 5 Jan 2002 15:19:22 +0100
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+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16Mrf5-0002pz-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:19:03 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+References: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 05 Jan 2002 15:19:03 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Message-ID: <87sn9k3mp4.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 12
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> I've not found this symbol in .c nor .h. Is it a standard symbol that
+> should be included (from STLport ?) or is it an forgotten NeL symbol?
+
+Ok. I'm stupid. PTHREAD_MUTEX_FAST_NP is defined in pthread.h which is
+included. I'm not fluent at all with C++ so I can't say more.
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Sat Jan  5 16:23:34 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g05FNYw89053
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 16:23:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.149.19] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:17:42 Z
+Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:43:21 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g05FNYw89053
+Subject: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+We are currently working on a contract job
+along with our game.  An educational 3D environment
+demonstrating the Mayan culture.  We have created
+a pyramid in a new landscape, the rbank tool
+generates collision info for the landscape and
+everything works fine.
+
+Now, to be able to walk up the pyramid, boxes or
+cylinders are not enough for collisions.  I've
+exported collision info from 3dmax into a .cmb
+file.  How do I load this file into PACS?  Can
+anybody give me a hint or a code snipped?
+
+Thanks,
+Robert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Sat Jan  5 23:07:57 2002
+Received: from mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.23])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g05M7vw91093
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:07:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from citronier.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.222) by mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr; 5 Jan 2002 23:02:13 +0100
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+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16MytD-0004g0-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 23:02:07 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+References: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 05 Jan 2002 23:02:07 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Message-ID: <87u1u0a23k.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 23
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> mutex.cpp:246: `PTHREAD_MUTEX_FAST_NP' undeclared (first use this function)
+
+Ok. I've finally compiled nel/ with the following hack:
+CUnfairMutex::CUnfairMutex(const std::string &name)
+{
+//      pthread_mutexattr_t attr;
+//      pthread_mutexattr_init( &attr );
+//      // Fast mutex. Note: on Windows all mutexes are recursive
+//      pthread_mutexattr_setkind_np( &attr, PTHREAD_MUTEX_FAST_NP ); //PTHREAD_MUTEX_ERRORCHECK_NP );//PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP );//PTHREAD_MUTEX_RECURSIVE_NP );
+        pthread_mutex_init( &mutex, NULL );
+        //      pthread_mutexattr_destroy( &attr );
+}
+
+ It comments everything except the pthread_mutex_init() call. I don't
+ know why the original code doesn't work.
+
+Next steps nelns and snowball2. :)
+
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Sun Jan  6 00:06:32 2002
+Received: from mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-3.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.233])
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+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87u1u0a23k.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 06 Jan 2002 00:00:39 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87u1u0a23k.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Message-ID: <87pu4o9ze0.fsf_-_@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 39
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> Next steps nelns and snowball2. :)
+
+Ok. I've now compiled all required binaries. But I have some remaining
+issues:
+
+ - I need to set
+   LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/:/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/
+   otherwise libraries are not found. Strange as their location was
+   given to the various configure script.
+
+ - when running snowballs2 binary, I get the following error:
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/snowballs2/client$ /usr/local/Installed/NeL/bin/snowballs 
+INF20825 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN20825 path.cpp 440 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/pacs/, 0, 1): 'data/pacs/' is not found, skip it
+WRN20825 path.cpp 440 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/anims/, 0, 1): 'data/anims/' is not found, skip it
+WRN20825 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so': /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glSetFenceNV
+WRN20825 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+Aborted
+
+Any idea where I should look to solve this issue? I'm stuck.
+
+My config:
+XFree86 4.1.0.1 on ATI rage 128.
+Mesa 4.0.1 (as given by debian dpkg)
+some glxinfo:
+ OpenGL vendor string: VA Linux Systems, Inc.
+ OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Rage128 20010405 AGP 1x x86/MMX
+ OpenGL version string: 1.2 Mesa 3.4.2
+
+Tell me if you need further info.
+
+Any help would be very appreciated.
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From kalldrexx@programmer.net Mon Jan  7 02:20:11 2002
+Received: from ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-54.outblaze.com [205.158.62.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g071KAw00520
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+    Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:14:24 +0800
+From: "Matthew Shapiro" <kalldrexx@programmer.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:14:24 +0800
+Subject: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+I can't figure out how to set the cvsroot with win32 cvs.exe.  I use the -d option but it doesn't seem to work.  
+
+However I did download snowballs iwth the engine source... but It's not compiling right.  it mentioned STLport (or whatever it was) and so i downloaded it, put it in d:\, compiled it with no errors and it still doesn't compile and keeps mentioning that? what am I doing wrong?  I used the vc++ 6 make file.  thanks...
+
+KallDrexx
+-- 
+
+
+----KallDrexx
+
+_______________________________________________

+Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com

+http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

+

+

+1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.!

+

+http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com

+

+
+
+From mbresnah@visi.com Mon Jan  7 03:17:10 2002
+Received: from breg.mc.mpls.visi.com (breg.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.101])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g072HAw00856
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 03:17:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from mbresnah@visi.com)
+Received: from anelginanalas (mbresnah.dsl.visi.com [209.98.224.51])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun,  6 Jan 2002 20:11:29 -0600 (CST)
+From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah@visi.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 20:12:04 -0800
+Message-ID: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGOEBCDBAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
+In-Reply-To: <20020107011425.7675.qmail@mail.com>
+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
+Importance: Normal
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> I can't figure out how to set the cvsroot with win32 cvs.exe.  I
+> use the -d option but it doesn't seem to work.
+
+What are you putting after -d?  Which version of cvs are you using?  What
+error do you get?
+
+> However I did download snowballs iwth the engine source... but
+> It's not compiling right.  it mentioned STLport (or whatever it
+> was) and so i downloaded it, put it in d:\, compiled it with no
+> errors and it still doesn't compile and keeps mentioning that?
+> what am I doing wrong?  I used the vc++ 6 make file.  thanks...
+
+Did you add the STLPort install directory to the Include and Lib directory
+settings in VC++ as per the instructions in the INSTALL file?
+
+Mike
+
+
+From kalldrexx@programmer.net Mon Jan  7 08:33:51 2002
+Received: from ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-50.outblaze.com [205.158.62.50])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g077Xow02347
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:33:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from kalldrexx@programmer.net)
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+    Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:28:04 +0800
+From: "Matthew Shapiro" <kalldrexx@programmer.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:28:04 +0800
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> > I can't figure out how to set the cvsroot with win32 cvs.exe.  I
+> > use the -d option but it doesn't seem to work.
+> 
+> What are you putting after -d?  Which version of cvs are you using?  What
+> error do you get?
+
+No error... just displays the same thing if you just typed cvs (the help stuff) and doesn't change the CVSROUTE.  I dont see a version number either.  I'm putting the CVSROOT= stuff after -d and even wit hthe export.
+ 
+> > However I did download snowballs iwth the engine source... but
+> > It's not compiling right.  it mentioned STLport (or whatever it
+> > was) and so i downloaded it, put it in d:\, compiled it with no
+> > errors and it still doesn't compile and keeps mentioning that?
+> > what am I doing wrong?  I used the vc++ 6 make file.  thanks...
+> 
+> Did you add the STLPort install directory to the Include and Lib directory
+> settings in VC++ as per the instructions in the INSTALL file?
+> 
+> Mike
+
+Yes I did that and it's still asking for STLPort...
+-- 
+
+
+----KallDrexx
+
+_______________________________________________

+Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com

+http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

+

+

+1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.!

+

+http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com

+

+
+
+From logout@free.fr Mon Jan  7 10:06:25 2002
+Received: from smtp.completel.fr (smtp.completel.fr [213.244.0.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0796Pw02808
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:06:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from logout@free.fr)
+Received: from dracont (unknown [213.30.163.34])
+	by smtp.completel.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id EE00817A32F
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon,  7 Jan 2002 09:54:56 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <007501c19759$f2ee94d0$1000a8c0@completel.fr>
+From: "Emmanuel Deloget" <logout@free.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20020107072804.1204.qmail@mail.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:59:43 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "Emmanuel Deloget" <logout@free.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+c:\set CVSROOT=":pserver:...."
+c:\cvs login
+c:\cvs checkout code
+
+Should work well (sorry : works well)
+
+--
+Emmanuel Deloget
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Matthew Shapiro" <kalldrexx@programmer.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:28 AM
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+
+
+>
+> > > I can't figure out how to set the cvsroot with win32 cvs.exe.  I
+> > > use the -d option but it doesn't seem to work.
+> >
+> > What are you putting after -d?  Which version of cvs are you using?
+What
+> > error do you get?
+>
+> No error... just displays the same thing if you just typed cvs (the help
+stuff) and doesn't change the CVSROUTE.  I dont see a version number either.
+I'm putting the CVSROOT= stuff after -d and even wit hthe export.
+>
+> > > However I did download snowballs iwth the engine source... but
+> > > It's not compiling right.  it mentioned STLport (or whatever it
+> > > was) and so i downloaded it, put it in d:\, compiled it with no
+> > > errors and it still doesn't compile and keeps mentioning that?
+> > > what am I doing wrong?  I used the vc++ 6 make file.  thanks...
+> >
+> > Did you add the STLPort install directory to the Include and Lib
+directory
+> > settings in VC++ as per the instructions in the INSTALL file?
+> >
+> > Mike
+>
+> Yes I did that and it's still asking for STLPort...
+> --
+>
+>
+> ----KallDrexx
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
+> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
+>
+>
+> 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.!
+>
+>
+http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://
+www.getpennytalk.com
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan  7 10:41:37 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g079faw03034
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:41:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g079ZvJ74256
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:35:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <004d01c1975e$b58ab150$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000901c1956f$56937f60$8aa9653f@geneticanomalies.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:35:57 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> bsphere.cpp
+> fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+>         (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+>          Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+>          Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+information
+
+Outch, thank you M$ :-( I work with Visual C++ SP5 and it compiles quite
+well with the current CVS snapshot.
+The only things that changed are precompilated header, you could perhaps try
+to remove them from project settings to see if something change.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan  7 10:44:51 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g079ipw03060
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:44:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g079dBJ74293
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:39:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005b01c1975f$29a3c310$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGMEPFDAAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:39:11 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> Something about the interaction between my cvs client (CVS 1.11 on Cygwin)
+> and the nevrax CVS server is causing the line endings to be translated
+from
+> CR LF to NL.  As a result, Visual C++ can't make sense of the workspace
+and
+> project files (*.dsw,*.dsp).  I don't have this problem with sourceforge,
+> but they use the ssh protocol instead of pserver.  Has anyone else
+> encountered this problem?  Found a fix?
+
+We use WinCvs and don't have the problem you said. in the command line cvs,
+there options like --crlf or --lf, you should take a look on this and do
+some tries.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan  7 10:55:45 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g079tjw03183
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:55:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <009001c19760$af3bc8f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20020107072804.1204.qmail@mail.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:50:05 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> > Did you add the STLPort install directory to the Include and Lib
+directory
+> > settings in VC++ as per the instructions in the INSTALL file?
+> Yes I did that and it's still asking for STLPort...
+
+Did you put the STLport include *before* other ones?
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From legros@nevrax.com Mon Jan  7 17:10:18 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g07GAIw06209
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:10:18 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Received: from benjaminl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g07G4cJ79687
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:04:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+From: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:05:27 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Reply-To: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
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+
+Hi,
+
+We just put the indoor collision tool in the CVS.
+It should be available very soon.
+You can find it in nel/tools/pacs/build_indoor_rbank.
+
+You can build the .lr, .gr and .rbank this way :
+
+1. Put all your .cmb files to process in the same directory
+2. Check the tool config file so that the MeshPath variable points
+   to it. 
+3. Also put the cmb files in the Meshes list (without extension)
+4. Setup output directory and output filenames
+
+You can also choose to merge the computed indoor .lr in a previous
+.gr (in order to use a single file for the whole world) by setting
+Merge to 1 and the input and merge output directories and filenames
+Remember the filenames shouldn't have extensions (.gr and .rbank will
+automatically be added.)
+Anyway, the sample config file should be clear enough (well, I hope :-)
+
+You will find the output lr, gr and rbank in the specified OutputPath.
+These files just work the same way as landscape files.
+If you need more info, don't hesitate !!
+
+
+Good luck !!
+
+
+Benjamin Legros
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+
+
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 12:43 AM
+Subject: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+
+
+> Hi,
+> 
+> We are currently working on a contract job
+> along with our game.  An educational 3D environment
+> demonstrating the Mayan culture.  We have created
+> a pyramid in a new landscape, the rbank tool
+> generates collision info for the landscape and
+> everything works fine.
+> 
+> Now, to be able to walk up the pyramid, boxes or
+> cylinders are not enough for collisions.  I've
+> exported collision info from 3dmax into a .cmb
+> file.  How do I load this file into PACS?  Can
+> anybody give me a hint or a code snipped?
+> 
+> Thanks,
+> Robert Bjarnason
+> InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Jan  7 17:41:20 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g07GfJw06551
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:41:19 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon,  7 Jan 2002 17:35:42 +0100 (CET)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release)
+Date: 07 Jan 2002 17:35:37 +0100
+Message-Id: <1010421337.538.4.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Subject: [Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+'PTHREAD_MUTEX_FAST_NP' is a GNU extension to Posix threads, either :
+
+- add '#define _GNU_SOURCE' before the '#include <pthread.h>'
+- or replace PTHREAD_MUTEX_FAST_NP with PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP
+
+I recommend the second alternative, since it is equivalent (FAST mutex
+is currently equivalent to ADAPTIVE mutex) and more portable.
+
+
+
+From mbresnah@visi.com Mon Jan  7 19:52:13 2002
+Received: from breg.mc.mpls.visi.com (breg.mc.mpls.visi.com [208.42.156.101])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g07IqCw07427
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:52:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from mbresnah@visi.com)
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+	by breg.mc.mpls.visi.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 571882D050D
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon,  7 Jan 2002 12:46:32 -0600 (CST)
+From: "Mike Bresnahan" <mbresnah@visi.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:47:06 -0800
+Message-ID: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGGECFDBAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700
+Importance: Normal
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> We use WinCvs and don't have the problem you said. in the command
+> line cvs,
+> there options like --crlf or --lf, you should take a look on this and do
+> some tries.
+
+I can't find any such options, but I did discover that I get newline line
+endings even when I have specified that the file is binary with -kb.  What
+OS is the cvs server running on?
+
+Mike
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Jan  7 20:15:07 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g07JF7w07573
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon,  7 Jan 2002 20:09:30 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: RE: [Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGGECFDBAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+References: <EKEJKOHPOIIALFJMKEIGGECFDBAA.mbresnah@visi.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Mon, 2002-01-07 at 21:47, Mike Bresnahan wrote:
+> I can't find any such options, but I did discover that I get newline line
+> endings even when I have specified that the file is binary with -kb.  What
+> OS is the cvs server running on?
+
+The pb is purely client side. On the server side, CVS stores text files
+as they are commited, ie. CR and LF are kept intact, often leading to
+mixed mode text files in the repository. The default behaviour of WinCVS
+is to convert incoming (checkout'ed or updated) files to DOS format in
+order they are workable with Windows tools (MSVC for instance), and of
+course do the inverse conversion when checking in (ie. only sending unix
+format text to the repository).
+
+WinCVS has a checkbox 'Checkout files with Unix LF' in the preferences
+dialog, and this is a _bad idea_ to activate it. For instance, MSVC will
+open unix format files, but will save added text lines in DOS format.
+When you'll reopen this mixed format file, it will confuse MSVC and
+you'll end up with blank lines scattered in your code.
+
+If you're using CVS from the cygwin distribution, it will behave as it's
+unix counterpart, ie. check files as-is. I'm not sure wether cvs is
+sensible to the global cygwin setting about text file format (
+http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/cygwin-ug-net/using-textbinary.html )
+
+If files have CR in the repository, the proper solution consist in
+removing (cvs rm) the file, and re-adding it (cvs add) properly.
+
+However I grepped nel and swnoballs2 source, and I can't find a single
+CR. The repository is fine :)
+
+
+
+
+From kalldrexx@programmer.net Mon Jan  7 22:29:29 2002
+Received: from ws1-7.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-57.outblaze.com [205.158.62.57])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g07LTSw08209
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 22:29:29 +0100 (CET)
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+    Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:23:41 +0800
+From: "Matthew Shapiro" <kalldrexx@programmer.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:23:41 +0800
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+after I do the set and I try cvs login here's what happens (happens in wincvs too):
+d:\>set CVSROOT=':pserver:anonymous@cvs.nevrax.org:/home/cvsroot'
+d:\>cvs login
+cvs login: CVSROOT "':pserver:anonymous@cvs.nevrax.org:/home/cvsroot'" must be an absolute pathname
+cvs [login aborted]: Bad CVSROOT.
+
+any ideas?
+
+ALSO I moved the include for the STLport to the first slot but it still says i need it to compile... any ideas? sorry
+
+-----Original Message-----
+Wrom: SKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJBL
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:59:43 +0100
+To:  <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+
+
+> c:\set CVSROOT=":pserver:...."
+> c:\cvs login
+> c:\cvs checkout code
+> 
+> Should work well (sorry : works well)
+> 
+> --
+> Emmanuel Deloget
+> 
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> Wrom: VLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYOKSTTZRCLBDXRQBGJSNB
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:28 AM
+> Subject: RE: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+> 
+> 
+> >
+> > > > I can't figure out how to set the cvsroot with win32 cvs.exe.  I
+> > > > use the -d option but it doesn't seem to work.
+> > >
+> > > What are you putting after -d?  Which version of cvs are you using?
+> What
+> > > error do you get?
+> >
+> > No error... just displays the same thing if you just typed cvs (the help
+> stuff) and doesn't change the CVSROUTE.  I dont see a version number either.
+> I'm putting the CVSROOT= stuff after -d and even wit hthe export.
+> >
+> > > > However I did download snowballs iwth the engine source... but
+> > > > It's not compiling right.  it mentioned STLport (or whatever it
+> > > > was) and so i downloaded it, put it in d:\, compiled it with no
+> > > > errors and it still doesn't compile and keeps mentioning that?
+> > > > what am I doing wrong?  I used the vc++ 6 make file.  thanks...
+> > >
+> > > Did you add the STLPort install directory to the Include and Lib
+> directory
+> > > settings in VC++ as per the instructions in the INSTALL file?
+> > >
+> > > Mike
+> >
+> > Yes I did that and it's still asking for STLPort...
+> > --
+> >
+> >
+> > ----KallDrexx
+> >
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
+> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
+> >
+> >
+> > 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.!
+> >
+> >
+> http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://
+> www.getpennytalk.com
+> >
+> >
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> >
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+
+-- 
+
+
+----KallDrexx
+
+_______________________________________________

+Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com

+http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

+

+

+1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.!

+

+http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com

+

+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Jan  7 22:40:33 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g07LeXw08305
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 22:40:33 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon,  7 Jan 2002 22:34:56 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <20020107212342.3805.qmail@mail.com>
+References: <20020107212342.3805.qmail@mail.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Mon, 2002-01-07 at 22:23, Matthew Shapiro wrote:
+> after I do the set and I try cvs login here's what happens (happens in wincvs too):
+> d:\>set CVSROOT=':pserver:anonymous@cvs.nevrax.org:/home/cvsroot'
+> d:\>cvs login
+> cvs login: CVSROOT "':pserver:anonymous@cvs.nevrax.org:/home/cvsroot'" must be an absolute pathname
+
+Seems this is a quote pb, remove the single quotes in the "set"
+invocation (or try double quotes).
+
+
+
+
+From kalldrexx@programmer.net Tue Jan  8 00:04:12 2002
+Received: from ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-37.outblaze.com [205.158.62.37])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g07N4Aw08734
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 00:04:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from kalldrexx@programmer.net)
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+Received: from ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com for [65.14.53.206] via web-mailer on
+    Tue, 08 Jan 2002 06:58:23 +0800
+From: "Matthew Shapiro" <kalldrexx@programmer.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 06:58:23 +0800
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+ahhhh thanks... 
+
+-----Original Message-----
+Wrom: TTZRCLBDXRQBGJSNBOHMKHJYFMYXOEAIJJPH
+Date: 07 Jan 2002 22:34:48 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+
+
+> On Mon, 2002-01-07 at 22:23, Matthew Shapiro wrote:
+> > after I do the set and I try cvs login here's what happens (happens in wincvs too):
+> > d:\>set CVSROOT=':pserver:anonymous@cvs.nevrax.org:/home/cvsroot'
+> > d:\>cvs login
+> > cvs login: CVSROOT "':pserver:anonymous@cvs.nevrax.org:/home/cvsroot'" must be an absolute pathname
+> 
+> Seems this is a quote pb, remove the single quotes in the "set"
+> invocation (or try double quotes).
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+
+-- 
+
+
+----KallDrexx
+
+_______________________________________________

+Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com

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+
+
+From kimsama009@orgio.net Tue Jan  8 07:52:32 2002
+Received: from user14.orgio.net (root@[211.115.216.244])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g086qUw11552
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:52:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from kimsama009@orgio.net)
+Received: (from nobody@localhost)
+	by user14.orgio.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22400
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+	Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:46:39 +0900
+From: "±èÇö¿ì" <kimsama009@orgio.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Priority: 3
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 15:46:39 KST 
+Content-Type: text/html;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Mailer: Orgio Mail Webmail Interface
+Subject: [Nel] How to use 'Pacs' with static geometries like BSP?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+<img src="http://user14.orgio.net/orgiomail/button.php3?id=vewxgstdsyfihugfhbo&user=kimsama009" width="1" height="1">
+<html>
+<body>
+<pre>I've compiled NEL and ran pacs sample.
+It wokrs good and make me so impressive.
+
+I looked at the source over and became know how it does work.
+
+In pacs, there are four parts of the library;
+
+1) Static Collisions
+2) Dynamic Collisions
+3) Pathfinding
+4) User
+
+The pacs sample uses 'User' part and demostrate it.
+
+If I use pathfinding and collision detection in interior geometry like BSP,
+how to do I use those of classed?
+(specially, all geometry data I have is consist of triangles)
+
+If possible show me the examples or some psuedo code is also welcome.
+
+Hope your best reply. Thanks</pre>
+
+</body>
+</html>
+<br>
+--------------------------------------------------------<br>
+Best Free e-Mail Site Orgio.net <a href="http://www.orgio.net/" target="_blank">http://www.orgio.net</a><br>
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+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan  8 17:03:42 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g08G3fw14484
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:03:41 +0100 (CET)
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:57:49 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+Message-ID: <20020108165748.A53227@nevrax.com>
+References: <1010421337.538.4.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <1010421337.538.4.camel@zerodeux.home>; from v.caron@zerodeux.net on Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 05:35:37PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello Vincent,
+
+I commited your patch to NEL.
+
+Thanks for your help :-)
+
+
+According to Vincent Caron:
+>
+> - or replace PTHREAD_MUTEX_FAST_NP with PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP
+> 
+> I recommend the second alternative, since it is equivalent (FAST mutex
+> is currently equivalent to ADAPTIVE mutex) and more portable.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan  8 19:40:51 2002
+Received: from mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.254])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g08Ieow15523
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:40:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta7.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.61) by mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr; 8 Jan 2002 19:35:04 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.252.189.28) by mel-rta7.wanadoo.fr; 8 Jan 2002 19:34:46 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16O15C-0000mz-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:34:46 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 08 Jan 2002 19:34:46 +0100
+Message-ID: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 41
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello all,
+
+I'm trying to run snowballs2. However, it failed while trying to load
+libnel_drv_opengl.so with an undefined symbol glSetFenceNV.
+
+I commented out all gl*Fence*NV symbols and now I have the following
+error:
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/snowballs2/client$ /usr/local/Installed/NeL/bin/snowballs 
+INF 2967 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN 2967 path.cpp 440 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/pacs/, 0, 1): 'data/pacs/' is not found, skip it
+WRN 2967 path.cpp 440 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/anims/, 0, 1): 'data/anims/' is not found, skip it
+WRN 2967 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so': /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glBindProgramNV
+WRN 2967 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+Aborted
+
+Like glSetFenceNV, glBindProgramNV symbol is not available in
+/usr/lib/*GL* libraries neither in /usr/include/GL/*.h.
+
+Notice also that those symbols are not defined in SGI latest glext.h
+(http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h).
+
+Notice also that Alexandre Courbot had the same problem as me
+(http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-October/000650.html). Apparently,
+this has not been fixed.
+
+Are those symbols standard OpenGL or Windows specific? I have missed
+something?
+
+Versions:
+OpenGL implementation: Mesa 3 provided with XFree86 4.1.0.1
+Linux 2.4.17, XFree 4.1.0.1,
+OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Rage128 20010405 AGP 1x x86/MMX
+OpenGL version string: 1.2 Mesa 3.4.2
+
+
+Thanks in advance for any help,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From tharibo@free.fr Tue Jan  8 21:11:27 2002
+Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr (postfix2-1.free.fr [213.228.0.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g08KBRw15981
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:11:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tharibo@free.fr)
+Received: from there (toulouse-1-a7-33-201.dial.proxad.net [62.147.33.201])
+	by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 70486428
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue,  8 Jan 2002 21:05:46 +0100 (CET)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:54:14 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3]
+References: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <87u1u0a23k.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <87pu4o9ze0.fsf_-_@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+In-Reply-To: <87pu4o9ze0.fsf_-_@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Message-Id: <20020108200546.70486428@postfix2-1.free.fr>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: tharibo@free.fr
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+>  - when running snowballs2 binary, I get the following error:
+> david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/snowballs2/client$
+> /usr/local/Installed/NeL/bin/snowballs INF20825 client.cpp 145 :
+> Starting Snowballs !
+> WRN20825 path.cpp 440 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/pacs/, 0, 1):
+> 'data/pacs/' is not found, skip it WRN20825 path.cpp 440 :
+> CPath::addSearchPath(data/anims/, 0, 1): 'data/anims/' is not found,
+
+Did you download the data pack?
+
+-- 
+tharibo@free.fr
+"Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+-- Georges Brassens
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan  8 21:27:21 2002
+Received: from mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.23])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g08KRLw16093
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:27:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta9.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.69) by mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr; 8 Jan 2002 21:21:35 +0100
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+	id 16O2kX-0000rH-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:21:33 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+References: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87u1u0a23k.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87pu4o9ze0.fsf_-_@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<20020108200546.70486428@postfix2-1.free.fr>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 08 Jan 2002 21:21:33 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <20020108200546.70486428@postfix2-1.free.fr>
+Message-ID: <87itac386q.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 12
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr> writes:
+
+> Did you download the data pack?
+
+Yes.
+
+I think my problem is more a library issue.
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan  8 21:45:15 2002
+Received: from mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.254])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g08KjFw16224
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:45:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta6.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.222) by mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr; 8 Jan 2002 21:39:29 +0100
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+	id 16O31t-0000ra-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:39:29 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 08 Jan 2002 21:39:28 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Message-ID: <87ell037cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 27
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+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> Are those symbols standard OpenGL or Windows specific? 
+
+After further investigation, I would say that those symbols (and thus
+library functions) are NVidia specific:
+
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/NV/fence.txt
+
+As far as I have understood, the NeL library should have queried the
+OpenGL library to find if those extensions are available and if not use
+a workaround. Am I right?
+
+However, there is some code to test those functions availability:
+driver_opengl_extension.cpp:333:
+	if( strstr(glext, "GL_NV_fence")==NULL )
+		return false;
+
+Maybe some cleanup would be needed in driver_opengl_extension_def.h?
+
+I would so much play with snowballs! :)
+
+I hope it helps in some way,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From kalldrexx@programmer.net Tue Jan  8 23:47:46 2002
+Received: from ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-55.outblaze.com [205.158.62.55])
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+From: "Matthew Shapiro" <kalldrexx@programmer.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:41:57 +0800
+Subject: [Nel] problems compiling....
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+
+OK i THINK i know what's wrong.  I followed the new instructuions that came with the cvs version of the code and i did the nmake clean all stuff to STLport and at the begging it says the following files could not be found like 8 times and then compiles the rest.... Then when i do nmake install it says that cl.exe cannot be found (apparently cl.exe is the file all these compilations want to maek... including nel...) any ideas. and yes STLport 4.0
+-- 
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+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Wed Jan  9 01:44:41 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g090idw17528
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+Received: from [157.157.149.19] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:38:51 Z
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 01:04:38 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <446156809.20020109010438@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+X-Sender: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+------------241A61752056A23D
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+I've exported a .cmb file from Max from the same
+Max file as I use to export the instance group that
+includes stairs in the Mayan pyramid we are
+reconstructing.
+
+The process explains it self and everything seems
+to work except when I load the scene no collision
+happens with the stairs.  My .rbank and .gr files
+both grow and this is the output log:
+
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 234 : compute retriever 8_AO
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 255 : Material 0 used
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 665 : compute topologies
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 24 topologie=
+s for character 0
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0 topologies=
+ for character 1
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0 topologies=
+ for character 2
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0 topologies=
+ for character 3
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 195 : instance making and linking work =
+time: 0.010
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 325 : 0.170 seconds work
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 329 : CVector       translation_0 =3D C=
+Vector(-2237.0f, 1149.0f, 0.0f);
+
+What I see right away that is strange it that the
+approximate middle of my stairs in the world is
+(2240.0f, -1148.0f), looks very much like
+"translation_0" except for the "-" being swapped,
+maybe this is just a coincident=3F
+
+When I export the .cmb file then it takes on the
+name of the instance group of the shape...I guess
+that is normal, right=3F
+
+Another thing that might be related to this not
+working is that I had problems getting the
+Landscape pacs to work until I realized the
+importance of having my zones translated to the
+correct world coordinates based on the names.
+I used the snowballs example max zones to figure
+out where they were supposed to be located.
+
+According to the Max snowballs example_zones the
+size of each zone in Max is supposed to be
+approx 4 meters by 4 meters, and that is
+supposed to translate in the NeL 160m by 160m,
+right=3F  I'm a little bit confused on the zone
+size issue because the units seem to be different
+in Max and NeL=3F  Also, am I correct to assume
+that the zones have to be in the correct world
+coordinates based on their names for pacs to
+work=3F
+
+Maybe this is unrelated but build_rbank does
+not compile anymore because it can't find
+moulinette.h
+
+I include a low quality screenshot, still only
+first pass on models and textures and we don't
+have our sky-dome or visiting characters in
+there, yet, only good old Gnu :)
+
+Thanks,
+Robert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
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+
+------------241A61752056A23D--
+
+
+
+From skander@skander.com Wed Jan  9 03:30:42 2002
+Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr (postfix2-1.free.fr [213.228.0.9])
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+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@skander.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20020108224157.80185.qmail@mail.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] problems compiling....
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 03:22:58 +0100
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+
+
+> OK i THINK i know what's wrong.  I followed the new instructuions that
+came with the cvs version of the code and i did the nmake clean all stuff to
+STLport and at the begging it says the following files could not be found
+like 8 times and then compiles the rest.... Then when i do nmake install it
+says that cl.exe cannot be found (apparently cl.exe is the file all these
+compilations want to maek... including nel...) any ideas. and yes STLport
+4.0
+> --
+
+Hi,
+
+cl.exe is the compiler that comes with VisualC++. At first sight it seems
+simply that your path isn't set correctly, yet nmake.exe is (at least with
+my install of VC++) in the same directory than cl.exe, and your nmake.exe
+seems to work. Are you sure that cl.exe is installed? On my box, this is
+located in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\Bin\
+
+What version of VC++ are you using, and are you sure you moved the right
+makefile from the STLPort distribution. I've compiled STLPort 4.5.1 without
+any problems, with VC++6.
+
+-Kai
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Wed Jan  9 01:36:18 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g090aGw17480
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 01:36:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.149.19] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:30:21 Z
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:56:07 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <3045646396.20020109005607@in-orbit.net>
+To: Benjamin Legros <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+In-reply-To: <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+References: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net>
+ <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------C230F2CA5C4A5"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
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+
+------------C230F2CA5C4A5
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+I've exported a .cmb file from Max from the same
+Max file as I use to export the instance group that
+includes stairs in the Mayan pyramid we are
+reconstructing.
+
+The process explains it self and everything seems
+to work except when I load the scene no collision
+happens with the stairs.  My .rbank and .gr files
+both grow and this is the output log:
+
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 234 : compute retriever 8_AO
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 255 : Material 0 used
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 665 : compute topologies
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 24 topologie=
+s for character 0
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0 topologies=
+ for character 1
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0 topologies=
+ for character 2
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0 topologies=
+ for character 3
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 195 : instance making and linking work =
+time: 0.010
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 325 : 0.170 seconds work
+02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 329 : CVector       translation_0 =3D C=
+Vector(-2237.0f, 1149.0f, 0.0f);
+
+What I see right away that is strange it that the
+approximate middle of my stairs in the world is
+(2240.0f, -1148.0f), looks very much like
+"translation_0" except for the "-" being swapped,
+maybe this is just a coincident=3F
+
+When I export the .cmb file then it takes on the
+name of the instance group of the shape...I guess
+that is normal, right=3F
+
+Another thing that might be related to this not
+working is that I had problems getting the
+Landscape pacs to work until I realized the
+importance of having my zones translated to the
+correct world coordinates based on the names.
+I used the snowballs example max zones to figure
+out where they were supposed to be located.
+
+According to the Max snowballs example_zones the
+size of each zone in Max is supposed to be
+approx 4 meters by 4 meters, and that is
+supposed to translate in the NeL 160m by 160m,
+right=3F  I'm a little bit confused on the zone
+size issue because the units seem to be different
+in Max and NeL=3F  Also, am I correct to assume
+that the zones have to be in the correct world
+coordinates based on their names for pacs to
+work=3F
+
+Maybe this is unrelated but build_rbank does
+not compile anymore because it can't find
+moulinette.h
+
+I include a low quality screenshot, still only
+first pass on models and textures and we don't
+have our sky-dome or visiting characters in
+there, yet, only good old Gnu :)
+
+Thanks,
+Robert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
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+
+------------C230F2CA5C4A5--
+
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Wed Jan  9 11:22:45 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09AMiw20772
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:22:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from lionelb (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <87ell037cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:21:47 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+
+Okay, sorry for late answer but this an issue I have not yet fixed, and I
+apologize, but I still don't know how to (the fact is that here at nevrax we
+develop under windows, still trying to support linux, except network guys
+which really tests both versions).
+
+David, you're right, glSetFenceNV, glBinProgramNV etc.... are part of NVidia
+OpenGL extension, but they are dynamically checked (like all other
+extensions) in driver_opengl_extension.cpp.
+
+The difference with other extensions is that they are too recent and don't
+exist in GLext.h, so they are defined
+in   "driver_opengl_extension_def.h".
+
+I tried to follow same syntax as in GLext.h to define thoses extensions (use
+of GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES, use of APIENTRY) but it seems that it works under
+windows (even with drviers/cards that don't support thoses extensions) but
+not under linux. I'm not very aware of dynamci libs (.so) under linux but I
+think the problem is that all thoses functions are not "export"-ed and so
+the dynamic library loader think the function is in libnel_drv_opengl.so.
+And of course it is not.
+
+The test in driver_open_extension.cpp:333  ensure that code that use
+glSetFenceNV won't be executed, but it's still compiled and linked.
+Therefore it crahses when the libnel_drv_opengl.so  is loaded.
+
+If someone could explains me where I am wrong in
+driver_opengl_extension_def.h, it would be cool.
+
+Also, can anybody explains me why under linux/unix we don't have to
+dynamically import functions (ie with such call like wglGetProcAdress(), or
+window's GetProcAdress()) ??? In other terms, What system underlie the
+dynamic library loader (I suppose there is system which fill a table of jump
+or something like this but I don't really knows).
+
+
+thanks
+
+Lionel, Nevrax.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "David Mentre" <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:39 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+
+
+> David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+>
+> > Are those symbols standard OpenGL or Windows specific?
+>
+> After further investigation, I would say that those symbols (and thus
+> library functions) are NVidia specific:
+>
+> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/NV/fence.txt
+>
+> As far as I have understood, the NeL library should have queried the
+> OpenGL library to find if those extensions are available and if not use
+> a workaround. Am I right?
+>
+> However, there is some code to test those functions availability:
+> driver_opengl_extension.cpp:333:
+> if( strstr(glext, "GL_NV_fence")==NULL )
+> return false;
+>
+> Maybe some cleanup would be needed in driver_opengl_extension_def.h?
+>
+> I would so much play with snowballs! :)
+>
+> I hope it helps in some way,
+> Best regards,
+> d.
+> --
+>  david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From kalldrexx@programmer.net Wed Jan  9 12:09:06 2002
+Received: from ws1-10.us4.outblaze.com (205-158-62-111.outblaze.com [205.158.62.111])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g09B95w21073
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+Received: from ws1-10.us4.outblaze.com for [65.14.53.206] via web-mailer
+    on Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:40:14 +0800
+From: "Matthew Shapiro" <kalldrexx@programmer.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:40:14 +0800
+Subject: Re: [Nel] problems compiling....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I didn't say it compiled with errors ;)  Nevrax compiles with errors casue stlport doesn't seem to work right.. or something i'm not quite sure...
+-----Original Message-----
+Wrom: FGGMEPYOQKEDOTWFAOBUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWW
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 03:22:58 +0100
+To:  <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] problems compiling....
+
+
+> 
+> 
+> > OK i THINK i know what's wrong.  I followed the new instructuions that
+> came with the cvs version of the code and i did the nmake clean all stuff to
+> STLport and at the begging it says the following files could not be found
+> like 8 times and then compiles the rest.... Then when i do nmake install it
+> says that cl.exe cannot be found (apparently cl.exe is the file all these
+> compilations want to maek... including nel...) any ideas. and yes STLport
+> 4.0
+> > --
+> 
+> Hi,
+> 
+> cl.exe is the compiler that comes with VisualC++. At first sight it seems
+> simply that your path isn't set correctly, yet nmake.exe is (at least with
+> my install of VC++) in the same directory than cl.exe, and your nmake.exe
+> seems to work. Are you sure that cl.exe is installed? On my box, this is
+> located in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\Bin\
+> 
+> What version of VC++ are you using, and are you sure you moved the right
+> makefile from the STLPort distribution. I've compiled STLPort 4.5.1 without
+> any problems, with VC++6.
+> 
+> -Kai
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+
+-- 
+
+
+----KallDrexx
+
+_______________________________________________

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+
+
+From legros@nevrax.com Wed Jan  9 12:13:04 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09BD3w21129
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:13:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Received: from benjaminl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g09B7LJ96528
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+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001a01c198fd$ede96b90$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+From: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net> <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl> <3045646396.20020109005607@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:08:11 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C19906.4F136850"
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+X-Reply-To: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
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+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+
+
+> Hi,
+>
+> I've exported a .cmb file from Max from the same
+> Max file as I use to export the instance group that
+> includes stairs in the Mayan pyramid we are
+> reconstructing.
+>
+> The process explains it self and everything seems
+> to work except when I load the scene no collision
+> happens with the stairs.  My .rbank and .gr files
+> both grow and this is the output log:
+>
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 234 : compute retriever 8_AO
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 255 : Material 0 used
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 665 : compute topologies
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 24
+topologies for character 0
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0
+topologies for character 1
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0
+topologies for character 2
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 local_retriever.cpp 709 : generated 0
+topologies for character 3
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 195 : instance making and linking work
+time: 0.010
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 325 : 0.170 seconds work
+> 02/01/09 00:25:33 INF  708 main.cpp 329 : CVector       translation_0 =
+CVector(-2237.0f, 1149.0f, 0.0f);
+>
+> What I see right away that is strange it that the
+> approximate middle of my stairs in the world is
+> (2240.0f, -1148.0f), looks very much like
+> "translation_0" except for the "-" being swapped,
+> maybe this is just a coincident?
+
+This is normal, because .lr files are centered on the
+center of the computed zone (because of some vertex
+compression on 2 uint16, we use local coordinates.)
+So, the translation_0 is the translation used to go
+from world space to local space.
+
+There is also a really important thing for the indoor
+collision export. To embed the indoor collisions with
+the landscape collisions, you have to create an 'exterior
+collision mesh' which will be used to collide from
+landscape to indoor and to walk through doors.
+This mesh must coincide with indoor/lanscape doors
+(e.g. for a house, the front door) and common edges
+must be invisible. In attachment, a little picture
+that will probably explain more that words...
+
+Please note that common edges must be flagged invisible
+to be recognized as a door. In any case, assume that
+visible edges are real wall (can't walk through) and
+invisible edges are soft (can walk through).
+You may divide the collision in different meshes
+if you respect the visible/invisible edges (that will
+allow to create different pacs surfaces, different
+material, etc.)
+
+
+> When I export the .cmb file then it takes on the
+> name of the instance group of the shape...I guess
+> that is normal, right?
+
+Yes, and you'll get this name when you call
+UGlobalRetriever::getIdentifier(const UGlobalPosition&)
+Another thing is that the material id you set in MAX
+for the meshes will be the id you get when you call
+UGlobalRetriever::getMaterial(const UGlobalPosition&)
+minus 1 (MAX ids start at 1, our material ids start at 0)
+
+
+> Another thing that might be related to this not
+> working is that I had problems getting the
+> Landscape pacs to work until I realized the
+> importance of having my zones translated to the
+> correct world coordinates based on the names.
+> I used the snowballs example max zones to figure
+> out where they were supposed to be located.
+>
+> According to the Max snowballs example_zones the
+> size of each zone in Max is supposed to be
+> approx 4 meters by 4 meters, and that is
+> supposed to translate in the NeL 160m by 160m,
+> right?  I'm a little bit confused on the zone
+> size issue because the units seem to be different
+> in Max and NeL?  Also, am I correct to assume
+> that the zones have to be in the correct world
+> coordinates based on their names for pacs to
+> work?
+
+You should use MAX generic units (menu Customize,
+Units setup, Generic units). Zones are approx.
+160x160. Please note that PACS zones must not
+be wider than 512.0 and better centered on the
+grid (again for vertices compression...)
+
+The build tool uses zone ids to translate into
+local space (instead of real zone center, this
+to avoid linkage issues due to float imprecision).
+The linker also uses zone ids.
+
+For your convenience, these are the functions used
+in the builder to convert from float coords to name,
+id to float coords, integer coords to id...
+
+string getZoneNameByCoord(float x, float y)
+{
+ const float zoneDim = 160.0f;
+
+ float xcount = x/zoneDim;
+ float ycount = -y/zoneDim + 1;
+
+ char ych[32];
+ sprintf(ych,"%d_%c%c",(sint)ycount, 'A'+(sint)xcount/26,
+'A'+(sint)xcount%26);
+ return string(ych);
+}
+
+CVector getZoneCenterById(uint16 id)
+{
+ CAABBox  bbox;
+ uint  x, y;
+ const float zdim = 160.0f;
+
+ x = id%256;
+ y = id/256;
+
+ return CVector(zdim*((float)x+0.5f), -zdim*((float)y+0.5f), 0.0f);
+}
+
+uint32 getIdByCoord(uint x, uint y)
+{
+ return y*256+x;
+}
+
+
+> Maybe this is unrelated but build_rbank does
+> not compile anymore because it can't find
+> moulinette.h
+
+Wooops !
+I just fixed it on the CVS, but you can fix it by replacing "moulinette.h"
+by "build_rbank.h". Sorry...
+
+
+> I include a low quality screenshot, still only
+> first pass on models and textures and we don't
+> have our sky-dome or visiting characters in
+> there, yet, only good old Gnu :)
+
+He he =)
+The gnu reminds me of something ;)
+
+
+
+Good luck !
+
+
+Benjamin Legros
+Nevrax France
+
+
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+
+------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C19906.4F136850--
+
+
+From legros@nevrax.com Wed Jan  9 12:15:56 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09BFtw21175
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:15:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Received: from benjaminl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g09BAFJ96576
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:10:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002e01c198fe$5540f4c0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+From: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net> <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl> <3045646396.20020109005607@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:11:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Woops !!
+Forgot to tell you the exterior mesh material id MUST be 666 (in MAX ids)
+
+It seems that collisions are evil, hu ?
+
+
+Benjamin Legros
+Nevrax France
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Wed Jan  9 18:10:39 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09HAZw23127
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:10:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.149.19] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:04:45 Z
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:30:31 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <100105310137.20020109173031@in-orbit.net>
+To: Benjamin Legros <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+In-reply-To: <002e01c198fe$5540f4c0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+References: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net>
+ <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+ <3045646396.20020109005607@in-orbit.net>
+ <002e01c198fe$5540f4c0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+------------FBCCA322C0BA27
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Benjamin,
+
+Thanks a lot for the help :)
+The exterior of the pyramid works now and I can
+enter the interior through the invisible surfaces.
+I haven't tried the interior collision it self,
+yet.
+
+My problem now is that when I'm at the bottom
+of the stairs, on my way to the top (see attached
+screenshot), then I can't walk up, pacs stops my at
+the first step.  There are no actual steps yet, only
+a sliding plane.  Is it maybe too steep or does the
+exterior mesh collision not work for walking on top
+of buildings=3F
+
+Should I maybe try to make the pyramid a part of
+the landscape=3F  Will I be able to walk into the
+landscape and have an interior there=3F
+
+Thanks again,
+Robert
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+TnfF5PR+QHxWTt/MTqY6ZN3I5nxWTt/MT4rJ+CHWpjptdgGc34rJ6PyB+Lyej6oyq//Z
+
+------------FBCCA322C0BA27--
+
+
+
+From legros@nevrax.com Wed Jan  9 18:38:50 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09Hclw23334
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:38:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Received: from benjaminl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g09HX3J01170
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:33:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from legros@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000b01c19933$d12fb0f0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+From: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net> <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl> <3045646396.20020109005607@in-orbit.net> <002e01c198fe$5540f4c0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl> <100105310137.20020109173031@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:33:57 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "Benjamin Legros" <legros@nevrax.com>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+
+> Is it maybe too steep or does the
+> exterior mesh collision not work for walking on top
+> of buildings?
+
+The interior collision builder doesn't take slope into
+account, nor mesh geometry (as it only uses collision mesh
+which is something like a curved plane), so it shouldn't
+be an issue here. We, at Nevrax, also use stairs, ramps
+and so on. The only issue I can see here is a vertex
+misalignement between the interior mesh and the exterior
+mesh, or the common edges wouldn't be invisible both.
+Also check that the beginning of the stairs are not crossing
+a landscape surface border (that is the 'door' to the stairs
+is located inside a surface)
+
+Last thing of all, a PACS surface must not cover itself,
+for instance a spiral staircase must be divided in multiple
+pieces so that for a couple of (x,y) coordinates, there is
+at maximum 1 point on the surface (so a unique z).
+Typically, a house that has multiple floors will be divided
+by floor.
+
+
+I hope this will solve your problem !
+
+
+
+Benjamin Legros
+Nevrax France
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan  9 19:21:50 2002
+Received: from mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.254])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09ILow23604
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:21:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.79) by mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr; 9 Jan 2002 19:16:04 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.66.67) by mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr; 9 Jan 2002 19:15:40 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16ONGG-0000Mm-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:15:40 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87ell037cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 09 Jan 2002 19:15:40 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+Message-ID: <87y9j7v19v.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 29
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello Lionel,
+
+"Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> Okay, sorry for late answer but this an issue I have not yet fixed,
+
+Thank you. I don't mind a late reply if I get a reply at all (especially
+when it is detailed like yours :)
+
+
+> The test in driver_open_extension.cpp:333  ensure that code that use
+> glSetFenceNV won't be executed, but it's still compiled and linked.
+> Therefore it crahses when the libnel_drv_opengl.so  is loaded.
+
+One quick workaround would be to put an appropriate test in the
+configure. This test would try run a small program testing the GL
+extension and thus #define its availability.
+
+But for a long term fix, it would be better to allow the dynamic lookup
+of those extensions. It would allow Nevrax to release one binary
+supporting all hardware at full speed.
+
+Sorry, I have no fix for that yet.
+
+Anyway, thank you for your reply,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan  9 23:34:39 2002
+Received: from mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-6.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09MYdw24972
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 23:34:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta6.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.222) by mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr; 9 Jan 2002 23:28:52 +0100
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+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16ORCw-0003KZ-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:28:30 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87ell037cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 09 Jan 2002 23:28:29 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+Message-ID: <87666bi2gi.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 45
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+"Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> Also, can anybody explains me why under linux/unix we don't have to
+> dynamically import functions (ie with such call like wglGetProcAdress(), or
+> window's GetProcAdress()) ??? In other terms, What system underlie the
+> dynamic library loader (I suppose there is system which fill a table of jump
+> or something like this but I don't really knows).
+
+Ok. Looking at nm(1):
+       For each symbol, nm shows:
+[...]
+           "U" The symbol is undefined.
+[...]
+           "W" The symbol is a weak  symbol  that  has  not  been
+               specifically tagged as a weak object symbol.  When
+               a weak defined symbol  is  linked  with  a  normal
+               defined  symbol, the normal defined symbol is used
+               with no error.  When a weak  undefined  symbol  is
+               linked and the symbol is not defined, the value of
+               the weak symbol becomes zero with no error.
+
+[...]
+
+So I think we would like those "weak objects" for all GL extensions.
+
+Looking at the generated library, we find:
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/.libs$ nm libnel_drv_opengl.so|grep Fence  
+0001a58c T finishFence__Q24NL3D19CVertexBufferHardGL
+         U glDeleteFencesNV
+         U glFinishFenceNV
+         U glGenFencesNV
+         U glSetFenceNV
+000213e0 W isFenceSet__CQ24NL3D19CVertexBufferHardGL
+0001a554 T setFence__Q24NL3D19CVertexBufferHardGL
+
+So glSetFenceNV is an undefined symbol that will trigger the dlopen
+error.
+
+I've not found a way to change that however. :(
+
+Hope it helps a little,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Jan 10 00:10:03 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g09NA3w25204
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:10:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5530B6FB
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:04:25 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+References: 
+	<87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87ell037cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> 
+	<003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0 (Preview Release)
+Date: 10 Jan 2002 00:04:16 +0100
+Message-Id: <1010617456.755.20.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Wed, 2002-01-09 at 11:21, Lionel Berenguier wrote:
+> 
+> If someone could explains me where I am wrong in
+> driver_opengl_extension_def.h, it would be cool.
+> 
+> Also, can anybody explains me why under linux/unix we don't have to
+> dynamically import functions (ie with such call like wglGetProcAdress(), or
+> window's GetProcAdress()) ??? In other terms, What system underlie the
+> dynamic library loader (I suppose there is system which fill a table of jump
+> or something like this but I don't really knows).
+
+OpenGL under Unix was used for a long time on a limited set of video
+hardware (on SGI/Irix, HP/UX and a few), and there were little migration
+of software across these different setups. Thus, the extensions were
+simply compiled in libGL.so together with the standard API, and you had
+only two solution : 1) choose extension usage at compile time or 2)
+dynamically load different versions of your engine (if the DLL wouldn't
+load, it meant a required extension was not present).
+
+But of course it was quickly a pb. An extension has been proposed as the
+counterpart of wglGetProcAddress (
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/ARB/get_proc_address.txt
+). Since you have the pb of the chicken and the egg (how do you get the
+glXGetProcAddressARB function address without itself ? :)), the author
+asked driver implementors to _always_ compile this one in their libGL.so
+(even if it always return NULL : no extension!). Conclusion: you can
+reuse the code currently embraced by #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS/#endif for
+Linux, replacing wglGetProcAddress by glXGetProcAddressARB (may I
+suggest a macro ? :)).
+
+Now you would say : ok, but the gl* extensions are defined twice ! Once
+as function pointers in my code, once as functions in libGL.so ! The
+fact is that dlopen'ing("/usr/lib/libGL.so") does not import libGL
+symbols in your process space. You have to import them with dlsym(), or
+in our precise case, with glXGetProcAddressARB(). You get the Windows
+behaviour. But Linux users keep a slight advantage : they can code
+nVidia specific stuff without those boring function pointer mess, they
+just link against libGL.so.
+
+--
+There is something worth mentioning : glXGetProcAddressARB is
+context-independent while wglGetProcAddress is ! This is spurious,
+because wgl* functions are on the windowing system side, and should not
+be context-dependent until one of their parameter is a context. If a
+Windows host has several drivers (often the case : one software, and one
+HW, maybe more with multi-head), context is critical since you can deal
+with several driver interfaces. At least it is clearly mentioned in the
+first line of the MSDN doc...
+
+--
+Add-on: to list symbols of a DLL, use 'nm -D <stuff>.so|less'. Symbols
+with a leading 'U' are undefined (meaning their implementation reside in
+another lib), those with a 'T' are implemented here (in the 'text
+section' = code segment). Very useful if you want to understand the
+strategy of the runtime loader.
+
+
+
+From ian@cahoononline.com Thu Jan 10 10:44:29 2002
+Received: from gonzo.cahoononline.com ([209.237.31.48])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0A9iRw28875
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:44:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ian@cahoononline.com)
+Received: from cahoononline.com (daffy.cahoononline.com [192.168.1.26])
+	by gonzo.cahoononline.com (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0A9ci700932
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:38:45 -0800
+Message-ID: <3C3D611F.3FBC555F@cahoononline.com>
+Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 01:38:39 -0800
+From: Ian Cahoon <ian@cahoononline.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.9-13 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] libxml / configure problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+I am new to NeL and was having some problems getting it to build.
+I am on a stock Redhat 7.2, i686 box. I am trying to build off
+of CVS HEAD.
+
+When running configure I am running into the following problem...
+
+[code.HEAD] nel: ./configure --with-stlport=/home/icahoon/ws/STLport-4.5.1
+loading cache ./config.cache
+checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
+checking whether build environment is sane... yes
+checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes
+checking for working aclocal... found
+checking for working autoconf... found
+checking for working automake... found
+checking for working autoheader... found
+checking for working makeinfo... found
+
+...snip...
+
+checking for python... /usr/bin/python
+checking for Python headers... /usr/include/python1.5
+checking for Python libraries... /usr/lib/python1.5/config
+checking for xml2-config... /usr/bin/xml2-config
+checking for libxml - version >= 2.0.0... no
+*** Could not run libxml test program, checking why...
+*** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log for the
+*** exact error that occured. This usually means LIBXML was incorrectly installed
+*** or that you have moved LIBXML since it was installed. In the latter case, you
+*** may want to edit the xml2-config script: /usr/bin/xml2-config
+configure: error: libxml2 must be installed.
+
+So I did a bit of digging. It seems in configure.in, line 138 there is
+
+> dnl Use C++ compiler as a default for the compilation tests.
+> AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS
+
+But looking at the macro AM_PATH_XML2 in /usr/share/aclocal/libxml.m4
+it seems pretty clear it won't work with a C++ compiler since
+it is only modifying the CFLAGS, not the CPPFLAGS or the CXXFLAGS.
+
+I am in no way an autoconf expert, so I dont know what the "correct" solution
+is, but in configure.in, I added the following macros, and it seems to work:
+
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.56
+diff -c -r1.56 configure.in
+*** configure.in        7 Jan 2002 16:09:52 -0000       1.56
+--- configure.in        10 Jan 2002 09:42:24 -0000
+***************
+*** 215,225 ****
+--- 215,232 ----
+  AM_PATH_PYTHON( $enable_ai )
+  
+  
++ 
++ dnl Use C++ compiler as a default for the compilation tests.
++ AC_LANG_C
++ 
+  dnl ==========
+  dnl LibXML
+  dnl ==========
+  
+  AM_PATH_XML2( 2.0.0, , AC_MSG_ERROR(libxml2 must be installed.) )
++ 
++ dnl Use C++ compiler as a default for the compilation tests.
++ AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS
+  
+  
+  dnl ====================================================================
+
+Thought you might like to know,
+
+--Ian
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Jan 10 11:58:42 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0AAwfw29322
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:58:41 +0100 (CET)
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:52:42 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] libxml / configure problem
+Message-ID: <20020110115242.A88071@nevrax.com>
+References: <3C3D611F.3FBC555F@cahoononline.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <3C3D611F.3FBC555F@cahoononline.com>; from ian@cahoononline.com on Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 01:38:39AM -0800
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+Hi Ian,
+
+I applied your patch and it will be on the public CVS tonigth.
+
+Until then, you can run the 'configure' script with the '--disable-xmltest'
+option to avoid that crash.
+
+Thanks for your help :-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+According to Ian Cahoon:
+>
+> [...]
+> But looking at the macro AM_PATH_XML2 in /usr/share/aclocal/libxml.m4
+> it seems pretty clear it won't work with a C++ compiler since
+> it is only modifying the CFLAGS, not the CPPFLAGS or the CXXFLAGS.
+> 
+> I am in no way an autoconf expert, so I dont know what the "correct" solution
+> is, but in configure.in, I added the following macros, and it seems to work:
+> [...]
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Fri Jan 11 14:46:57 2002
+Received: from relay-3m.club-internet.fr (relay-3m.club-internet.fr [195.36.216.172])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0BDkuw37685
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+Message-ID: <000801c19aa5$8e015d60$eb39c2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:40:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C19AAD.EED8CD50"
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C19AAD.EED8CD50
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+hello=20
+my name is neuser jean-philippe=20
+and i have some problem to build and run snowball.
+
+
+
+
+FIRST PROBLEM:
+In Debug configuration i am able to compile snowball but at execution i =
+have this in log file
+
+//////////////////////////////////////
+Log Starting [02/01/11 13:18:16]
+02/01/11 13:18:16 DBG 1904 driver_opengl_extension.cpp 579 : GLExt: =
+GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp =
+GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map =
+GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine =
+GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 =
+GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_ARB_vertex_blend GL_S3_s3tc =
+GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once GL_ATI_vertex_streams =
+GL_ATIX_texture_env_combine3 GL_ATIX_texture_env_route =
+GL_ATIX_vertex_shader_output_point_size GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra =
+GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array =
+GL_EXT_draw_range_elements GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_packed_pixels =
+GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color =
+GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_stencil_wrap =
+GL_EXT_texgen_reflection GL_EXT_texture3D =
+GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map =
+GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_combine =
+GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic =
+GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_KTX_buffer_region =
+GL_ARB_window_pos GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_blend_square =
+GL_SGI_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp =
+GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGIS_multitexture GL_WIN_swap_hint =
+WGL_EXT_extensions_string WGL_EXT_swap_control=20
+02/01/11 13:18:16 DBG 1904 driver_opengl_extension.cpp 656 : WGLExt: =
+WGL_ARB_make_current_read WGL_ARB_pbuffer WGL_ARB_pixel_format =
+WGL_EXT_swap_control=20
+02/01/11 13:18:16 WRN 1904 path.cpp 220 : CPath::lookup(n019003l.pfb): =
+file not found
+02/01/11 13:18:16 WRN 1904 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: =
+Path not found for n019003l.pfb
+
+//////////////////////////////////////
+
+
+what does it mean ?=20
+
+
+
+Its possible to download a good snowball program and dll necessary ?=20
+
+
+
+
+
+SECOND PROBLEM:
+In debug release configuration=20
+i m not able to compile opengl driver project
+driver_opengl.cpp
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+=3D
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =3D
+'glActiveTextureARB'
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+=3D
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+
+somebody had same problem but no give solution=20
+
+
+its possible somebody make an good installation guide with configuration =
+of visual studio.
+screenshoot , step by step ...=20
+
+
+thanks all=20
+
+i hope to help you in future=20
+
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C19AAD.EED8CD50
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hello </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>my name is neuser jean-philippe =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and i have some problem to build and =
+run=20
+snowball.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>FIRST PROBLEM:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In Debug configuration i am able to =
+compile=20
+snowball but at execution i have this in log file</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>//////////////////////////////////////</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Log Starting [02/01/11 =
+13:18:16]<BR>02/01/11=20
+13:18:16 DBG 1904 driver_opengl_extension.cpp 579 : GLExt: =
+GL_ARB_multitexture=20
+GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression =
+GL_ARB_texture_cube_map=20
+GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine =
+
+GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 =
+GL_ARB_transpose_matrix=20
+GL_ARB_vertex_blend GL_S3_s3tc GL_ATI_envmap_bumpmap =
+GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once=20
+GL_ATI_vertex_streams GL_ATIX_texture_env_combine3 =
+GL_ATIX_texture_env_route=20
+GL_ATIX_vertex_shader_output_point_size GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra=20
+GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array =
+GL_EXT_draw_range_elements=20
+GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_point_parameters=20
+GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color =
+GL_EXT_separate_specular_color=20
+GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texgen_reflection GL_EXT_texture3D=20
+GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map=20
+GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_combine =
+GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3=20
+GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_object =
+GL_EXT_vertex_array=20
+GL_KTX_buffer_region GL_ARB_window_pos GL_NV_texgen_reflection=20
+GL_NV_blend_square GL_SGI_texture_edge_clamp =
+GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp=20
+GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGIS_multitexture GL_WIN_swap_hint=20
+WGL_EXT_extensions_string WGL_EXT_swap_control <BR>02/01/11 13:18:16 DBG =
+1904=20
+driver_opengl_extension.cpp 656 : WGLExt: WGL_ARB_make_current_read=20
+WGL_ARB_pbuffer WGL_ARB_pixel_format WGL_EXT_swap_control <BR>02/01/11 =
+13:18:16=20
+WRN 1904 path.cpp 220 : CPath::lookup(n019003l.pfb): file not =
+found<BR>02/01/11=20
+13:18:16 WRN 1904 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: Path not =
+found=20
+for n019003l.pfb<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>//////////////////////////////////////</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>what does it mean ? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Its possible to download a good =
+snowball program=20
+and dll necessary ? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>SECOND =
+PROBLEM:</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In debug release =
+configuration&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i m not able to compile opengl driver=20
+project</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver=
+_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+=3D<BR>:<I> error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+=3D<BR></I>'glActiveTextureARB'<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\open=
+gl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+=3D<BR>:<I> fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file =
+found<BR></I>(repeated 9=20
+times for the next 9 files)<BR></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>somebody had same problem but no give =
+solution=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>its possible somebody make an good =
+installation=20
+guide with configuration of visual studio.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>screenshoot , step by step ... =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks all </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i hope to help you in future =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C19AAD.EED8CD50--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Jan 11 15:19:53 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0BEJqw37901
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:19:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008c01c19aaa$3caf3e00$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000801c19aa5$8e015d60$eb39c2d4@kissmaniac>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] (no subject)
+Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:14:09 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+>In Debug configuration i am able to compile snowball but at execution i
+have this in log file
+>02/01/11 13:18:16 WRN 1904 path.cpp 220 : CPath::lookup(n019003l.pfb): file
+not found
+
+Ok, you don't have datas so the program can't find them! Get them here :
+http://nevrax.org/download/cvs
+
+>In debug release configuration  i m not able to compile opengl driver
+project
+
+It works fine here and we don't know what the problem you have can be, try
+to get the last cvs snapshot. If it works in other configuration, it's quite
+strange
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Fri Jan 11 15:58:57 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0BEwuw38165
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:58:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [213.167.146.97] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:53:01 Z
+Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:18:44 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <84270203091.20020111151844@in-orbit.net>
+To: Benjamin Legros <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[6]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+In-reply-To: <000b01c19933$d12fb0f0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+References: <7932890954.20020105154321@in-orbit.net>
+ <000901c19795$1f9738d0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+ <3045646396.20020109005607@in-orbit.net>
+ <002e01c198fe$5540f4c0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+ <100105310137.20020109173031@in-orbit.net>
+ <000b01c19933$d12fb0f0$1b01a8c0@benjaminl>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g0BEwuw38165
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Benjamin,
+
+I have been unsuccessful in being able to walk
+up stair that are a part of the exterior mesh.
+One thing I thought of before continuing my
+3DMax mesh hacking, exporting and testing:
+
+I'm using the snowballs pacs code for the client,
+any chance this code might be outdated and is not
+using the right VisualCollision handling for being
+able to walk on top of exterior meshes?  Just checking
+to make sure that my problem is not client side...
+If you think it's ok, I'll continue my mesh hacking
+until I find the solution, otherwise a client side
+code snipped would help a lot...
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Sat Jan 12 23:16:10 2002
+Received: from mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.23])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0CMGAw49979
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:16:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta1.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.150) by mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr; 12 Jan 2002 23:10:22 +0100
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+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16PWLw-0001JB-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:10:16 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 12 Jan 2002 23:10:16 +0100
+Message-ID: <87zo3j5ign.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 38
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello,
+
+One again, a bad news. After updating to the latest nelns code, I am now
+unable to compiled it (on debian 3.0):
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --with-nel=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/ --with-nel-lib=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/
+[...]
+checking for -lnelmisc... yes
+[...]
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ nice make
+[...]
+make[2]: Entering directory `/home/david/pub/NeL/code/nelns/login_service'
+/bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link c++  -O3 -DNL_RELEASE   -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include  -o login_service  connection_client.o connection_ws.o login_service.o -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/  -lstlport_gcc 
+c++ -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include -o login_service connection_client.o connection_ws.o login_service.o  -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelmisc
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+Adding -L/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib allows the compilation:
+
+/bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link c++  -O3 -DNL_RELEASE   -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include  -o login_service  connection_client.o connection_ws.o login_service.o -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/  -L/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib -lstlport_gcc
+
+
+As something been changed recently in the nelns/configure scripts?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+
+PS : I have added path to NeL and STLports libraries in
+     ld.so.conf. Could it explain this bad behavior? I don't think so.
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ cat /etc/ld.so.conf 
+/usr/X11R6/lib
+/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib
+/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib
+
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Sat Jan 12 23:41:04 2002
+Received: from mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.254])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0CMf4w50140
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:41:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta9.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.69) by mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr; 12 Jan 2002 23:35:16 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.184.142) by mel-rta9.wanadoo.fr; 12 Jan 2002 23:35:15 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16PWk7-0002NX-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:35:15 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+References: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87u1u0a23k.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87pu4o9ze0.fsf_-_@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<20020108200546.70486428@postfix2-1.free.fr>
+	<87itac386q.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+From: David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 12 Jan 2002 23:35:14 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87itac386q.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Message-ID: <87pu4f5hb1.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Lines: 16
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+David Mentre <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr> writes:
+> 
+> > Did you download the data pack?
+> 
+> Yes.
+
+However, I just discovered I did not downloaded the LATEST data pack. It
+would be necessary, I think, to put a link to
+http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs/ in snowballs2/README.
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Jan 15 11:16:39 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0FAGdw68887
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:16:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0FAAsJ43085
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:10:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001b01c19dac$eaf2f010$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:10:54 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] itsalive
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+Our server called itsalive.nevrax.org that running Snowballs2 server is down
+for maintenance. We are actually testing some stuffs so the connection to
+the snowballs2 server could failed.
+Sorry for that and we'll put it back sooner as possible.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Tue Jan 15 11:38:00 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0FAc0w69015
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:38:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0FAWFJ43453
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:32:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:32:14 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFKEGFCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Cedric updated the scripts last week - he's on holiday this week and I'm
+affraid we're a bit snowed under so we're unlikely to have time to look into
+this 'till he gets back.
+
+Daniel
+
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+David Mentre
+Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:10 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+
+
+Hello,
+
+One again, a bad news. After updating to the latest nelns code, I am now
+unable to compiled it (on debian 3.0):
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$
+./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-i
+nclude=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/u
+sr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --with-nel=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/ --wi
+th-nel-lib=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/
+[...]
+checking for -lnelmisc... yes
+[...]
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ nice make
+[...]
+make[2]: Entering directory `/home/david/pub/NeL/code/nelns/login_service'
+/bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link
+c++  -O3 -DNL_RELEASE   -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/inclu
+de/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include  -o login_service
+connection_client.o connection_ws.o
+login_service.o -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5
+/lib/  -lstlport_gcc
+c++ -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/
+stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include -o login_service
+connection_client.o connection_ws.o
+login_service.o  -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.
+5/lib/ -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelmisc
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+Adding -L/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib allows the compilation:
+
+/bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link
+c++  -O3 -DNL_RELEASE   -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/inclu
+de/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include  -o login_service
+connection_client.o connection_ws.o
+login_service.o -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5
+/lib/  -L/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib -lstlport_gcc
+
+
+As something been changed recently in the nelns/configure scripts?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+
+PS : I have added path to NeL and STLports libraries in
+     ld.so.conf. Could it explain this bad behavior? I don't think so.
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ cat /etc/ld.so.conf
+/usr/X11R6/lib
+/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib
+/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib
+
+--
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From ian@cahoononline.com Tue Jan 15 12:07:07 2002
+Received: from gonzo.cahoononline.com ([209.237.31.48])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0FB76w69191
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:07:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ian@cahoononline.com)
+Received: from cahoononline.com (daffy.cahoononline.com [192.168.1.26])
+	by gonzo.cahoononline.com (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0FB1F704805
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:01:15 -0800
+Message-ID: <3C440BFA.37D682E4@cahoononline.com>
+Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:01:14 -0800
+From: Ian Cahoon <ian@cahoononline.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.9-13 i686)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFKEGFCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I managed to get it working in the last week without any
+build system changes on redhat 7.2.
+
+I do see libnelmisc in my linkers's cache:
+
+$ /sbin/ldconfig -p | grep nelmisc
+	libnelmisc.so.0 (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so.0
+	libnelmisc.so (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libnelmisc.so
+
+--Ian
+
+
+Daniel Miller wrote:
+> 
+> Cedric updated the scripts last week - he's on holiday this week and I'm
+> affraid we're a bit snowed under so we're unlikely to have time to look into
+> this 'till he gets back.
+> 
+> Daniel
+> 
+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+> David Mentre
+> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:10 PM
+> To: nel@nevrax.org
+> Subject: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+> 
+> Hello,
+> 
+> One again, a bad news. After updating to the latest nelns code, I am now
+> unable to compiled it (on debian 3.0):
+> 
+> david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$
+> ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-i
+> nclude=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/u
+> sr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --with-nel=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/ --wi
+> th-nel-lib=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/
+> [...]
+> checking for -lnelmisc... yes
+> [...]
+> 
+> david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ nice make
+> [...]
+> make[2]: Entering directory `/home/david/pub/NeL/code/nelns/login_service'
+> /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link
+> c++  -O3 -DNL_RELEASE   -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/inclu
+> de/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include  -o login_service
+> connection_client.o connection_ws.o
+> login_service.o -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5
+> /lib/  -lstlport_gcc
+> c++ -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/
+> stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include -o login_service
+> connection_client.o connection_ws.o
+> login_service.o  -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.
+> 5/lib/ -lstlport_gcc
+> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelmisc
+> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+> 
+> Adding -L/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib allows the compilation:
+> 
+> /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link
+> c++  -O3 -DNL_RELEASE   -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/inclu
+> de/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include  -o login_service
+> connection_client.o connection_ws.o
+> login_service.o -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5
+> /lib/  -L/usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib -lstlport_gcc
+> 
+> As something been changed recently in the nelns/configure scripts?
+> 
+> Best regards,
+> d.
+> 
+> PS : I have added path to NeL and STLports libraries in
+>      ld.so.conf. Could it explain this bad behavior? I don't think so.
+> 
+> david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ cat /etc/ld.so.conf
+> /usr/X11R6/lib
+> /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib
+> /usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib
+> 
+> --
+>  david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+From john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com Tue Jan 22 00:53:27 2002
+Received: from mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com ([207.219.170.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0LNrPw18876
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:53:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com)
+content-class: urn:content-classes:message
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+Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:47:30 -0500
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+X-MS-Has-Attach: 
+X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
+Thread-Topic: Game Object Models
+Thread-Index: AcGi1f1+fpF8SaXxQPqlADIxW5a2kg==
+From: "John Hayes" <john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g0LNrPw18876
+Subject: [Nel] Game Object Models
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+I read through the archive of the NeL library and found it interesting
+because I'm working on my own project and mostly focusing on areas where
+NeL is silent.
+
+In the source code, mailing list and documentation - I couldn't find any
+references to an application object model or persistence, and these are
+pretty big components. It is also the core mechanism for automating
+database storage, the network protocol, marshalling and transaction
+integrity.
+
+I'll give an example about how the object model relates to the network
+protocol:
+
+There was a great deal of discussion about TCP vs. UDP and assuming you
+want some form of reliability, UDP gives you control over the frequency
+and conditions for retransmission. In terms of server resources,
+successful packet transmission time, bandwidth use - they're probably
+pretty close (with Nagle Algorithm disabled), and if these were the only
+factors you couldn't justify the added complexity.
+
+The problem is TCP is substantially slower for retransmission because it
+uses a fairly lazy algorithm to ask for retransmission - it waits a bit
+before asking again for a packet. Because there's a connection to make,
+timing out and reconnecting is very slow ... like a minute - and the
+whole game is halted in the meantime because TCP enforces ordering
+despite whatever application level dependencies exist.
+
+Ok, so no TCP, UDP is great but you don't want to reimplement TCP all
+over again - reliability is good but you want the minimum number of
+packet dependencies (loose ordering so the game doesn't stall) and the
+minimum amount of retransmission (discard what you no longer care about)
+but conflicting goal of a minimum amount of latency for retransmission
+when it's required.
+
+So - what kind of rules can we make up for this? Network messages from
+the server to the client have two functions - updating state and
+"one-shot" actions (which is really a special case of updating state).
+
+If a character is running along, they have a running state and a
+position state that are continually updated. They may also have internal
+states like their "tiredness", "hunger" which may be related from the
+game logic's POV, but not the client - assuming the client is rather
+dumb, or applies simple algorithms like dead-reckoning until it gets an
+authoritative update from the server.
+
+Now the packet example, in this and all examples - all failed packet
+transmissions (lost, malformed) are considered equal.
+
+Update Position v1
+Update Position v2 (lost)
+Update Position v3
+
+If the client receives v3, it doesn't care if v2 is lost - for
+frequently updating fields, no need for retransmission.
+
+Update Position v1 (lost)
+Update Tiredness v1
+
+The client can process the Tiredness packet because it's on a different
+"stream" from the position - it may ask for position to be
+retransmitted.
+
+Update Position v2
+Update Position v1
+
+The second packet is ignored because the client already has a newer
+version of the state.
+
+Now this is all very application specific (as was argued on the mailing
+list). But software can be pretty good at figuring this stuff out when
+given a little metadata to work with, and this is where the object model
+steps in.
+
+You have an object model, and you want to replicate part of this object
+model to the client, and you want to replicate another part of the
+object model to all clients that can "see" your object.
+
+The tricky part can be the granularity for these replications, doing the
+entire object at once is very easy and requires no more server state
+than a "version flag" but uses a tons of bandwidth - replicating a
+single field is very efficient from a bandwidth POV but requires more
+server state to manage. A practical system would have property groups
+which are considered to be likely to change at the same interval.
+
+---
+
+Here's one possible design for a system to perform this kind of
+tracking:
+
+Each object has a version number and everything that attaches has a
+dirty mask of which fields are out of date. As an object changes - it
+broadcasts the aggregate of fields that changed during a transaction to
+each of the listeners, if it matches their listen mask, they get an
+update and the object version increments.
+
+The listener transmits all of the fields in the dirty mask to the
+client. Client responds which version and which fields are up to date
+and if the version hasn't incremented the server clears the dirty mask.
+The server could keep a history of which dirty masks applied to which
+versions to keep from pathologically retransmitting fields which haven't
+changed.
+
+An object model can also serve to tune such a protocol. First by
+packaging fields together into mask bits and second by setting times for
+each mask bit when the client might get suspicious. If the client is
+expected to have the latest data but the latest data may be dropped, how
+long should the server wait before retransmitting any given data? If
+it's something interactive - not very long, something that's slowly
+updated, it should give a reasonably long wait.
+
+I'd hate to be encoding rules like these in source code and it probably
+wouldn't be practical in the end anyways.
+
+---
+
+I'm currently working on an object model with these kinds of
+capabilities - the major attraction to me is it allows other activities
+like network data and persistence to be decoupled from the application.
+
+Right now, it builds the database tables, queries, and C++ classes
+(opaque in-memory layout, no code generation) from an XML file like this
+extract:
+
+<schema>
+	<class name="Entity">
+		<field name="template" type="int"/>
+		<field name="aspects" type="binary" length="16"/>
+		<field name="behavior" type="int"/>
+		<field name="name" type="string" length="16"/>
+		<field name="children" type="ownsmany" related="Entity"
+inverse="parent"/>
+		<field name="parent" type="ownsmany" related="Entity"
+inverse="children"/>
+	</class>
+</schema>
+
+---
+
+This is a lot at once, but I'm hoping to stir up some conversation :-)
+
+John
+- These aren't the thoughts you're looking for
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Tue Jan 22 10:05:19 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+Received: from lionelb (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+Message-ID: <000701c1a323$d56ba8f0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me><87ell037cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb> <1010617456.755.20.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:04:44 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+
+Thank you Vincent for this great clarification. In your own experience, is
+glXGetProcAddressARB widely supported ???
+
+If yes, what I have to do is undef GL_EXT_PROTOTYPES, and use same scheme as
+windows, isn't it ??
+
+
+Lionel.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:04 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+
+
+> On Wed, 2002-01-09 at 11:21, Lionel Berenguier wrote:
+> >
+> > If someone could explains me where I am wrong in
+> > driver_opengl_extension_def.h, it would be cool.
+> >
+> > Also, can anybody explains me why under linux/unix we don't have to
+> > dynamically import functions (ie with such call like wglGetProcAdress(),
+or
+> > window's GetProcAdress()) ??? In other terms, What system underlie the
+> > dynamic library loader (I suppose there is system which fill a table of
+jump
+> > or something like this but I don't really knows).
+>
+> OpenGL under Unix was used for a long time on a limited set of video
+> hardware (on SGI/Irix, HP/UX and a few), and there were little migration
+> of software across these different setups. Thus, the extensions were
+> simply compiled in libGL.so together with the standard API, and you had
+> only two solution : 1) choose extension usage at compile time or 2)
+> dynamically load different versions of your engine (if the DLL wouldn't
+> load, it meant a required extension was not present).
+>
+> But of course it was quickly a pb. An extension has been proposed as the
+> counterpart of wglGetProcAddress (
+> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/ARB/get_proc_address.txt
+> ). Since you have the pb of the chicken and the egg (how do you get the
+> glXGetProcAddressARB function address without itself ? :)), the author
+> asked driver implementors to _always_ compile this one in their libGL.so
+> (even if it always return NULL : no extension!). Conclusion: you can
+> reuse the code currently embraced by #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS/#endif for
+> Linux, replacing wglGetProcAddress by glXGetProcAddressARB (may I
+> suggest a macro ? :)).
+>
+> Now you would say : ok, but the gl* extensions are defined twice ! Once
+> as function pointers in my code, once as functions in libGL.so ! The
+> fact is that dlopen'ing("/usr/lib/libGL.so") does not import libGL
+> symbols in your process space. You have to import them with dlsym(), or
+> in our precise case, with glXGetProcAddressARB(). You get the Windows
+> behaviour. But Linux users keep a slight advantage : they can code
+> nVidia specific stuff without those boring function pointer mess, they
+> just link against libGL.so.
+>
+> --
+> There is something worth mentioning : glXGetProcAddressARB is
+> context-independent while wglGetProcAddress is ! This is spurious,
+> because wgl* functions are on the windowing system side, and should not
+> be context-dependent until one of their parameter is a context. If a
+> Windows host has several drivers (often the case : one software, and one
+> HW, maybe more with multi-head), context is critical since you can deal
+> with several driver interfaces. At least it is clearly mentioned in the
+> first line of the MSDN doc...
+>
+> --
+> Add-on: to list symbols of a DLL, use 'nm -D <stuff>.so|less'. Symbols
+> with a leading 'U' are undefined (meaning their implementation reside in
+> another lib), those with a 'T' are implemented here (in the 'text
+> section' = code segment). Very useful if you want to understand the
+> strategy of the runtime loader.
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan 22 16:30:56 2002
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+Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:24:31 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+Message-ID: <20020122162431.A14628@nevrax.com>
+References: <87zo3j5ign.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <87zo3j5ign.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>; from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:10:16PM +0100
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello David,
+
+I rewrote the configure script of NeL, NeLNS, and Snowballs there is 3
+weeks ago and i, apparently, didn't test it enought before comiting the
+new files, so there was a bug with the --with-nel-lib, sorry about that ...
+
+I fixed it and that will be available on the public cvs tonigth.
+
+The changes that i made on the configure scripts are a mostly complete
+rewrite of them. I put all the macros in a acinclude.m4 file placed in
+the $CVSROOT/code directory and i created symbolic links inside the cvs
+repository in the $CVSROOT/code/{nel,nelns,snowballs2} directories to
+that file.
+
+Thanks a lot for your help :-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+According to David Mentre:
+> 
+> [...]
+> 
+> As something been changed recently in the nelns/configure scripts?
+>
+> [...]
+> 
+> PS : I have added path to NeL and STLports libraries in
+>      ld.so.conf. Could it explain this bad behavior? I don't think so.
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Jan 22 17:01:34 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:55:45 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <000701c1a323$d56ba8f0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+References: 
+	<87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me><87ell037
+	 cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
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+	<1010617456.755.20.camel@zerodeux.home> 
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+Date: 22 Jan 2002 16:55:37 +0100
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+
+On Tue, 2002-01-22 at 10:04, Lionel Berenguier wrote:
+> 
+> Thank you Vincent for this great clarification. In your own experience, is
+> glXGetProcAddressARB widely supported ???
+
+If you want accelerated 3D support under Linux, you either get the old
+Mesa way (3DFX), utah-glx under XFree 3.3.x which is Mesa-based, DRI
+under XFree 4.x which is Mesa-based and finaly Nvidia proprietary
+drivers. They all support glXGetProcAddressARB to my knowledge. I
+checked for Mesa : it appeared on the 3.3 branch on 1999/12/11 (
+http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/mesa3d/Mesa/include/GL/glx.h?rev=1.10&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup - see end of file). Nvidia had it since its early driver releases (0.9-767 of 2001/02/13).
+
+So I would say, yes, it _is_ supported :)
+
+> If yes, what I have to do is undef GL_EXT_PROTOTYPES, and use same scheme as
+> windows, isn't it ??
+
+Yes.
+
+But I just re-read this thread and realized my last mail contained a big
+mistake : I was talking about dlopen'ing libGL.so, which you're not
+doing. I was actually thinking with the quake model : Carmack dlopen
+libGL.so or opengl32.DLL, and then import every symbol one by one. It
+had some advantage at the time of mini-GL and QuakeGL, where you had no
+means to choose your driver interface at run-time, but loading the right
+DLL. And ID has its own GL tracer/debugger which wraps all GL calls
+(they code the engine with a 'qgl*' API).
+
+Now, I think you're right and ID is wrong. ID bypass the standard loader
+link stage by dlopen'ing libGL.so, while you do the right thing by
+linking nel_drv_opengl.so with libGL at compile time, letting the
+runtime loader do its job (it will actually load the right libGL.so for
+you when you dlopen nel_drv_opengl.so, thus relying on the user/distro
+to have a proper GL setup, and not trying to workaround).
+
+The point I wanted to make (finaly, sorry for being so verbose :)), is
+that in this case you'll end with two definitions of a GL extension
+symbol under Linux :
+
+a) PFNGLSETFENCENVPROC  glSetFenceNV; // =
+glXGetProcAddressARB("glSetFenceNV");
+
+b) nm -D /usr/lib/libGL.so|grep glSetFenceNV
+0001b368 T glSetFenceNV
+
+The linker will complain (it says 'type of symbol `glSetFenceNV' changed
+from 2 to 1', ahem!), but it seems that our redefinition here gets the
+precedence over the libGL.so symbol. I'm not very confident with this
+link stuff, but I'm eager to learn more, that's why I'm taking some time
+to tackle this issue with you.
+
+I tried to test it on nel GL driver directly, but there are some issues
+to clean up first :
+
+- ARB_multitexture is not a GL extension since OpenGL 1.2.1. Since you
+should expect 1.3 compliant drivers till Ryzom is ready, I guess there
+is no need to import these symbols for pre-1.2.1 drivers ? Currently,
+the protos from driver_opengl_extension.h conflicts with plain
+definitions of my GL/gl.h :
+
+  // in driver_opengl_extension.h :
+  extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+  // in GL/gl.h : (not enclosed by #ifdef's)
+  GLAPI void GLAPIENTRY glActiveTextureARB(GLenum texture);
+
+- Get rid of some wgl dependencies : replace
+
+  extern PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC wglAllocateMemoryNV;
+  extern PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC  wglFreeMemoryNV;
+
+with something like :
+
+  #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+  typedef PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC PFNGLEXTALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC;
+  typedef PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC PFNGLEXTFREEMEMORYNVPROC;
+  #endif
+  #ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+  typedef void *(*PFNGLEXTALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC)(GLsizei, GLfloat,
+GLfloat, GLfloat);
+  typedef void (*PFNGLEXTFREEMEMORYNVPROC)(GLvoid *);
+  #endif
+  extern PFNGLEXTALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC glextAllocateMemoryNV;
+  extern PFNGLEXTFREEMEMORYNVPROC glextFreeMemoryNV;
+
+ (and update the code in .cpp to fetch the right function name, "wgl*"
+or "glX*")
+
+- The same with the pbuffer extension which as its glX counterpart
+
+- and so on ... I won't have much time this week, but I would gladly
+have tweaked this myself. Good luck :)
+
+
+
+
+From nik@xdv.org Tue Jan 22 21:36:17 2002
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+Subject: [Nel] compiling nel on ppc
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+
+hi,
+
+now, it may seem foolish, but i had to try compiling nel on a ppc debian
+system, with linux 2.4.17 kernel.
+
+all of the libs + support material was easily installed with apt-get, the
+bootstrap script worked fine, as did configure (after a bit of stlport
+pointing)
+
+./configure --with-stlport=/usr/include --enable-sound
+
+then the problems began,.
+
+luckily there was only a single line of x86 asm i came across..
+im not sure if you have made any design decisions about cross platfrm
+compatability, but anyway it looks like ive got in before all the asm
+'optmisations' begin, judging from the comments. .
+
+misc/time_nl.cpp line115
+CTime::getPerformanceTime ()
+
+it might be worth putting a few #ifdefs or whatever, to use the
+'unoptimised' versions of the functions if there isnt an x86 chip in
+sight.
+
+unfortunately,. it wasnt just a matter of fudging a return value for this
+function, gcc spat out some more straightfwd compiler errors
+
+using gcc 2.95 and it tells me this ->
+
+../../src/3d/ps_mesh.h:551:   instantiated from here
+../../include/nel/misc/smart_ptr_inline.h:72: invalid use of undefined
+type `class NL3D::IShape'
+../../src/3d/ps_mesh.h:57: forward declaration of `class NL3D::IShape'
+../../include/nel/misc/smart_ptr_inline.h:73: invalid use of undefined
+type `class NL3D::IShape'
+../../src/3d/ps_mesh.h:57: forward declaration of `class NL3D::IShape'
+
+any hints, or am i doomed to fail without some serious porting like
+bahaviour?
+
+thnks
+  nik
+
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Jan 23 11:36:19 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0NAaJw30737
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+Message-ID: <000b01c1a3f8$f9e20280$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201222118360.23590-100000@xdv.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:30:28 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+HI,
+
+We assume that all linux are on x86 plateform (only because we can't test it
+on other plateform) so we don't set the good value for other processor.
+We should use #defined value defined by configure to know if we can optimise
+some part in asm.
+
+> ../../src/3d/ps_mesh.h:551:   instantiated from here
+> ../../include/nel/misc/smart_ptr_inline.h:72: invalid use of undefined
+> type `class NL3D::IShape'
+> ../../src/3d/ps_mesh.h:57: forward declaration of `class NL3D::IShape'
+> ../../include/nel/misc/smart_ptr_inline.h:73: invalid use of undefined
+> type `class NL3D::IShape'
+> ../../src/3d/ps_mesh.h:57: forward declaration of `class NL3D::IShape'
+
+We had the same problem on x86 and we fixed it (wait the next cvs syncro
+this night).
+
+But I warn you, we never try NeL on non-x86 processor, it surely doesn't
+work :) First you should fix types_nl.h and changed:
+
+#  define NL_OS_UNIX
+// *for now*, we suppose that all unix system are LITLLE_ENDIAN (because we
+only test on linux/x86 system
+#  define NL_LITTLE_ENDIAN
+#endif
+
+with
+
+#  define NL_BIG_ENDIAN
+
+But anyway, it should works but we never try little<->big endian conversion!
+
+If you have a patch or something, don't hesistate to send it to us.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Wed Jan 23 15:13:28 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0NEDRw32462
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:13:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0NE7bJ12192
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:07:37 +0100 (CET)
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+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0NE70I19382
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:07:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:07:00 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+Message-ID: <20020123150700.A19317@nevrax.com>
+References: <87wuyx2bca.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <87u1u0a23k.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <87pu4o9ze0.fsf_-_@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <20020108200546.70486428@postfix2-1.free.fr> <87itac386q.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <87pu4f5hb1.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i
+In-Reply-To: <87pu4f5hb1.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>; from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr on Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 11:35:14PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi David,
+
+According to David Mentre:
+> 
+> However, I just discovered I did not downloaded the LATEST data pack. It
+> would be necessary, I think, to put a link to
+> http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs/ in snowballs2/README.
+
+Oops, i add a line about the latest Snowballs data pack in the Requirement
+section in the INSTALL file of Snowballs2 ... sorry about that.
+
+Thanks a lot for your help ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From darkvidor@hotmail.com Wed Jan 23 15:59:25 2002
+Received: from hotmail.com (f161.pav1.hotmail.com [64.4.31.161])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0NExOw32931
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+	Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:53:28 GMT
+X-Originating-IP: [194.167.137.11]
+From: "Veritable Killer" <darkvidor@hotmail.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:53:28 +0100
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
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+Subject: [Nel] (no subject)
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+
+Bonjour,
+Je suis etudiant en France je possede un Bac scientifique et je souhaiterai 
+devenir developpeur de jeux video. Mais voia le choix et vaste la 
+programmation m'interesse ainsi que l'infographie. Pour la programation les 
+cursus sont plus clair tandis que pour l'infographie ceux-ci sont tres 
+floux, or, l'infographie est la voie dans laquelle je prefererai me diriger. 
+si vous pouviez m'aider en me faisant parvenir quelques renseignement je 
+vous en serai reconnaissant. Etant une boite de devellopement de Jeux video 
+je pense que vous etes les plus competant pour pouvoir m'informer.
+Veuillez acceptez mes salutations bien distinguées.
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse 
+http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp.
+
+
+From mapsystem@multimania.com Wed Jan 23 18:28:10 2002
+Received: from maniamailbox1.caramail.com (maniamailbox1.caramail.com [195.68.99.240])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0NHSAw33794
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:28:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from mapsystem@multimania.com)
+Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:28:10 +0100 (CET)
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+	by maniamailbox1.caramail.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA12746
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:08:43 GMT
+Posted-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:08:43 GMT
+From: Daylon -- <mapsystem@multimania.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Message-ID: <1011812658004384@multimania.com>
+X-Mailer: Caramail - www.caramail.com
+X-Originating-IP: [195.221.178.103]
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Subject: Re: [Nel] (no subject)-> c bô les études
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_NextPart_Caramail_0043841011812658_ID"
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
+this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
+
+--=_NextPart_Caramail_0043841011812658_ID
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+> Bonjour,
+> Je suis etudiant en France je possede un Bac scientifique 
+et je souhaiterai 
+> devenir developpeur de jeux video. Mais voia le choix et 
+vaste la 
+> programmation m'interesse ainsi que l'infographie. Pour 
+la programation les 
+> cursus sont plus clair tandis que pour l'infographie ceux-
+ci sont tres 
+> floux, or, l'infographie est la voie dans laquelle je 
+prefererai me diriger. 
+> si vous pouviez m'aider en me faisant parvenir quelques 
+renseignement je 
+> vous en serai reconnaissant. Etant une boite de 
+devellopement de Jeux video 
+> je pense que vous etes les plus competant pour pouvoir 
+m'informer.
+> Veuillez acceptez mes salutations bien distingu=E9es.
+
+Bon, pour ma part, c'est exactement ce que je cherche aussi 
+mais j'ai d=E9j=E0 un peu d'infos sur le sujet...
+(Je suis en fin de ma 2i=E8me ann=E9e de DUT SRC)
+Pour l'infographie, =E7a d=E9pend aussi de ce que tu veux faire 
+exactement...
+Un artiste 2D (les artworks) n'aura pas le m=EAme cursus que 
+celui qui pondra les textures (plus adepte du fotopop)...
+Le premier aura fait les Beaux Arts (par exemple, en fait, 
+il existe 1000 et une fa=E7on d'avoir le m=EAme niveau) tandis 
+que le second aura pris des cours de 
+photoshop/illustrator/cuisine/autres (rayer la mention 
+inutile) =E0 la pelle...
+
+Mais dans le domaine de l'infographie multim=E9dia il y a 
+quelques DUT (oui, le SRC en fait parti), quelques BTS 
+(alors l=E0 par contre je ne suis pas tr=E8s renseign=E9 sur le 
+sujet) ou directement les grandes =E9coles (mais juste apr=E8s 
+le bac, il est extr=EAment difficile voir impossible d'y 
+entrer)...
+
+Pour ta part, sais-tu =E0 peu pr=E8s quel genre de poste tu 
+recherches?
+Si tu peux pr=E9ciser, =E7a aiderai beaucoup...
+
+Tiens, d'ailleurs, je me permet de profiter de ce sujet 
+pour poser une question =E0 l'=E9quipe de Nevrax...
+Prenez-vous des stagiaires (sourire niais)... Par exemple 
+du 8 avril au 14 juin 2002?
+Non, plus s=E9rieusement, je suis =E0 la recherche d'un stage 
+et donc (je sais, c'est pas tr=E8s tr=E8s formel ce que je 
+fait, d=E9sol=E9... De plus, je doute que ce soit r=E9ellement 
+l'endroit pour m'occuper de =E7a... Promis, je referai une 
+lettre dans les r=E8gles de l'art) cela serait pour moi une 
+excellente (et m=EAme plus) occasion d'obtenir une premi=E8re 
+exp=E9rience professionnelle.
+
+Donc voil=E0, si jamais c'est possible d'obtenir un poste de 
+stagiaire (gamdesign ou infographie... Justement! ;-), je 
+me ferai un tr=E8s (tr=E8s tr=E8s) grand plaisir de vous envoyer 
+mes diff=E9rents travaux.
+
+Et d=E9sol=E9 si jamais ce message passe pour du foosing (c'est 
+la premi=E8re fois que je poste ici et je ne connais pas 
+encore l'esprit de cette ML)...
+
+Voili voilou!
+
+
+
+_____//Julien "Daylon" Bouvet\\_____
+Designer freelance
+http://www.le-quanta.com/daylon/
++Infinity Studios
+http://www.plusinfinity.net/
+______________________________________________________
+E-mail gratuit - Multimania - http://www.multimania.fr
+
+
+--=_NextPart_Caramail_0043841011812658_ID--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Jan 23 18:43:46 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0NHhjw33905
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:43:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+Message-ID: <00bf01c1a434$b0649140$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <1011812658004384@multimania.com>
+Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:37:54 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Subject: [Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_les_=E9tudes?=
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+For the 2 unknown frenchies,
+
+First: This mailing list is an ENGLISH mailing list so please stop sending
+french mail, 9/10 of registered users are not french. You perhaps don't know
+this but the thing that you should do before sending mail is to take a look
+at the archive and see that *all* mails are in english (sometimes in bad
+english, but in english :)
+
+Second: You could sign your mail with your first (at least) and your last
+name to know who are talking.
+
+Third: It s a NeL mailing list, it 's about the Nevrax Library development
+and *not* Nevrax company at all so your mail are totally out of topic.
+
+I hope it's the last french mail I'll see in this mailing list.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Wed Jan 23 19:05:49 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:59:57 +0100
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Ever the diplomat :o)
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Vianney Lecroart
+Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 6:38 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] Re: [Nel] (no subject)-> c bô les études
+
+
+For the 2 unknown frenchies,
+
+First: This mailing list is an ENGLISH mailing list so please stop sending
+french mail, 9/10 of registered users are not french. You perhaps don't know
+this but the thing that you should do before sending mail is to take a look
+at the archive and see that *all* mails are in english (sometimes in bad
+english, but in english :)
+
+Second: You could sign your mail with your first (at least) and your last
+name to know who are talking.
+
+Third: It s a NeL mailing list, it 's about the Nevrax Library development
+and *not* Nevrax company at all so your mail are totally out of topic.
+
+I hope it's the last french mail I'll see in this mailing list.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From nik@f0.am Wed Jan 23 19:50:15 2002
+Received: from riker.skynet.be (riker.skynet.be [195.238.3.132])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0NIoFw34301
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:50:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nik@f0.am)
+Received: from 192.168.254.2 (194-78-202-129.pro.turboline.skynet.be [194.78.202.129])
+	by riker.skynet.be (8.11.6/8.11.6/Skynet-OUT-2.16) with ESMTP id g0NIhv501088
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:43:57 +0100 (MET)
+	(envelope-from <nik@f0.am>)
+Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:43:55 +0100
+From: n_ki <nik@f0.am>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Priority: 3
+In-Reply-To: <000b01c1a3f8$f9e20280$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <20020123194357-r01010800-0f36655c-0904-0108@192.168.254.2>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+X-Mindcontainer: uncontained
+X-Powered-By: zt0len data
+X-Fragments_discretion: 101
+X-fLVX: cyclic
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+[23.01.2002 ° 11:30 Uhr] Vianney Lecroart -->
+
+hi,.
+
+>We assume that all linux are on x86 plateform (only because we can't test it
+>on other plateform) so we don't set the good value for other processor.
+
+a dangerous assuption ;)
+   with a little planning the same codebase can run on ppc, alpha, ps2 or an
+ipaq.  of course, im not suggesting you should, nor voluteering to port it! 
+ but cross platform stuff is MUCH easier with a single os!+
+ 
+>We should use #defined value defined by configure to know if we can optimise
+>some part in asm.
+
+would make sense,., 
+
+>We had the same problem on x86 and we fixed it (wait the next cvs syncro
+>this night).
+
+when does the cvs get synced, aproximately?
+
+>But I warn you, we never try NeL on non-x86 processor, it surely doesn't
+>work :) First you should fix types_nl.h and changed:
+
+ill get back to fiddling with it then,.  . just to make sure it doesnt work!
+  
+zp.
+ nk
+ 
+ 
+
+ ][] [ http://f0.am ]   [foundation of applied mysticism   []    ] ]
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Jan 24 10:48:10 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0O9mAw40189
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:48:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0O9gJJ19516
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:42:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001001c1a4bb$6a5d17d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <20020123194357-r01010800-0f36655c-0904-0108@192.168.254.2>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:42:19 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+> a dangerous assuption ;)
+>    with a little planning the same codebase can run on ppc, alpha, ps2 or
+an
+> ipaq.  of course, im not suggesting you should, nor voluteering to port
+it!
+>  but cross platform stuff is MUCH easier with a single os!+
+
+I'm ok with you, but without ppc alpha ps2 or ipaq, it s quite difficult to
+port and test our lib! Of course we are multi platform (windows, linux for
+now) but for other OS, we need participation of the oss community, it's
+important for us to have a library that works on as many os as possible but
+we alos have a game to do and not all the time to do these ports, so if you
+want to help us saying what works, what doesn t work, it could be very
+useful for us.
+
+> >We had the same problem on x86 and we fixed it (wait the next cvs syncro
+> >this night).
+>
+> when does the cvs get synced, aproximately?
+
+It synced now, it s around 4:00am french time :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Jan 24 17:10:13 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0OGADw42450
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:10:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0OG4MJ24604
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:04:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0OG3fj42909
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:03:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:03:41 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+Message-ID: <20020124170341.A42846@nevrax.com>
+References: <000b01c1a3f8$f9e20280$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <20020123194357-r01010800-0f36655c-0904-0108@192.168.254.2>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i
+In-Reply-To: <20020123194357-r01010800-0f36655c-0904-0108@192.168.254.2>; from nik@f0.am on Wed, Jan 23, 2002 at 07:43:55PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+According to n_ki:
+> 
+> when does the cvs get synced, aproximately?
+
+The public cvs synchronization is part of a job wich is launch at 1h00 am CET
+every day. So it should be available around 2h00 am CET ...
+
+I'm going to put a notice about that on the web site.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Jan 24 18:08:24 2002
+Received: from mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.188])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0OH8Ow42847
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:08:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta1.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.150) by mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr; 24 Jan 2002 18:02:28 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.184.164) by mel-rta1.wanadoo.fr; 24 Jan 2002 18:02:09 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16TnGK-00022I-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:02:08 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 24 Jan 2002 18:02:08 +0100
+Message-ID: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 29
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi NeL guys,
+
+[ BTW, should I send my compilation issues on the mailing list or should
+I create a bug report? ]
+
+The nel/configure scripts doesn't find the OpenAL libraries on my
+machine which are however installed :
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nel$ ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --enable-sound --enable-ai --disable-xmltest --with-openal=/usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0/ --with-openal-lib=/usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0/lib/ --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL
+[...]
+checking for OpenAL headers... /usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0//include
+checking for OpenAL libraries... no
+                                 ^^ why??
+[...]
+
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nel$ ls /usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0/lib
+libopenal.a  libopenal.so  libopenal.so.0  libopenal.so.0.0.6
+
+It was working before, as I has been able to compile nel at least once,
+with the same configure (but without the --with-openal-lib option, only
+with the --with-openal option).
+
+Any idea?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Jan 24 20:06:57 2002
+Received: from mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-3.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.233])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0OJ6vw43627
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:06:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta9.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.69) by mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr; 24 Jan 2002 20:01:01 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.184.164) by mel-rta9.wanadoo.fr; 24 Jan 2002 20:00:34 +0100
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:00:33 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+References: <87zo3j5ign.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<20020122162431.A14628@nevrax.com>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 24 Jan 2002 20:00:33 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <20020122162431.A14628@nevrax.com>
+Message-ID: <87d6zzy3ou.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 41
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+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Cedric,
+
+Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> I fixed it and that will be available on the public cvs tonigth.
+
+It does not seem to be fixed:
+
+make[2]: Entering directory `/home/david/pub/NeL/code/nelns/login_service'
+/bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link c++  -O3 -DNL_RELEASE   -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include  -o login_service  connection_client.o connection_ws.o login_service.o -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/  -lstlport_gcc 
+c++ -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport -I/usr/local/Installed/NeL//include -o login_service connection_client.o connection_ws.o login_service.o  -lnelmisc -lnelnet -lcrypt -L/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelmisc
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+Even if the libraries are correctly found:
+
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --with-nel=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/ --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/
+[...]
+checking for -lnelmisc... yes
+checking for -lnelnet... yes
+
+
+BTW, speaking of the configure scripts, why is it necessary to give all
+--with-stlport, --with-stlport-include and --with-stlport-lib options? I
+though that a single --with-stlport would be sufficient.
+
+For example:
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nelns$ ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5 --with-nel=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/ --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL/
+[...]
+checking for STLPort headers... no
+checking for STLPort libraries... /usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib
+configure: error: STLPort must be installed (http://www.stlport.org).
+
+It works if I give also -lib and -include options.
+
+
+Sorry for the always bad news,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Jan 24 20:08:34 2002
+Received: from mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.188])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0OJ8Yw43641
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:08:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
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+	id 16Tp8l-0006Em-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:02:27 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+References: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 24 Jan 2002 20:02:27 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Message-ID: <878zany3lo.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 10
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> The nel/configure scripts doesn't find the OpenAL libraries on my
+> machine which are however installed :
+
+However, nel compiles without sound enabled.
+
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Jan 24 20:35:55 2002
+Received: from mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-6.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0OJZsw43852
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:35:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:29:58 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87ell037 cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+	<1010617456.755.20.camel@zerodeux.home>
+	<000701c1a323$d56ba8f0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+	<1011714937.750.171.camel@zerodeux.home>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 24 Jan 2002 20:29:57 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <1011714937.750.171.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Message-ID: <874rlby2bu.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 68
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net> writes:
+
+> - Get rid of some wgl dependencies : replace
+> 
+>   extern PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC wglAllocateMemoryNV;
+>   extern PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC  wglFreeMemoryNV;
+> 
+> with something like :
+> 
+>   #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+>   typedef PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC PFNGLEXTALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC;
+>   typedef PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC PFNGLEXTFREEMEMORYNVPROC;
+>   #endif
+>   #ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+>   typedef void *(*PFNGLEXTALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC)(GLsizei, GLfloat,
+> GLfloat, GLfloat);
+>   typedef void (*PFNGLEXTFREEMEMORYNVPROC)(GLvoid *);
+>   #endif
+>   extern PFNGLEXTALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC glextAllocateMemoryNV;
+>   extern PFNGLEXTFREEMEMORYNVPROC glextFreeMemoryNV;
+> 
+>  (and update the code in .cpp to fetch the right function name, "wgl*"
+> or "glX*")
+> 
+> - The same with the pbuffer extension which as its glX counterpart
+
+Lionel, as of today, the code compiles but does not run[1]. If you try
+to fix this bug, let me know and I'll try to recompile snowballs2 on my
+machine.
+
+[ BTW, I know there is a special french touch for video games, but I
+  didn't know that it consists in putting french words like "Abandon" in
+  error messages. :) ]
+
+Until then, I'm stuck. Yes, I know I should fix this myself but I prefer
+let you do it your own way. However, if you do not indend to fix this
+bug, let me know and I'll try to follow Vincent suggestions.
+
+Best regards,
+david
+
+[1]
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/snowballs2/client$ /usr/local/Installed/NeL/bin/snowballs 
+INF24568 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN24568 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so': /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glSetFenceNV
+WRN24568 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+Abandon
+
+All libs are correctly initialized:
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/snowballs2/client$ ldd /usr/local/Installed/NeL/bin/snowballs 
+	libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0x4001d000)
+	libnelmisc.so.0 => /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnelmisc.so.0 (0x40056000)
+	libnelnet.so.0 => /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnelnet.so.0 (0x401db000)
+	libnel3d.so.0 => /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnel3d.so.0 (0x403c0000)
+	libnelpacs.so.0 => /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnelpacs.so.0 (0x409b8000)
+	libnelsnd.so.0 => /usr/local/Installed/NeL/lib/libnelsnd.so.0 (0x40a7a000)
+	libstlport_gcc.so => /usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/libstlport_gcc.so (0x40ab4000)
+	libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 => /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 (0x40bbe000)
+	libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0x40c08000)
+	libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40c2a000)
+	libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0x40d4e000)
+	libxml2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 (0x40d64000)
+	libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x40dfd000)
+	/lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)
+	libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x40e01000)
+
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Jan 24 20:50:44 2002
+Received: from mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.188])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0OJoiw43956
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:50:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
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+	id 16Tpnb-00080I-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:44:39 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+References: <87zo3j5ign.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<20020122162431.A14628@nevrax.com> <87d6zzy3ou.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 24 Jan 2002 20:44:39 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87d6zzy3ou.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Message-ID: <87zo33wn2w.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 18
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> Hi Cedric,
+> 
+> Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+> 
+> > I fixed it and that will be available on the public cvs tonigth.
+> 
+> It does not seem to be fixed:
+
+Oops!! Sorry, you effectively fixed it. I just forgot to run
+nelns/bootstrap before recompiling.
+
+Once again, sorry for the wrong bug report,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Jan 24 21:09:29 2002
+Received: from mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.188])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0OK9Sw44102
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:09:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
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+	id 16Tq5g-0000zp-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:03:20 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+References: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr> <878zany3lo.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 24 Jan 2002 21:03:19 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <878zany3lo.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Message-ID: <87r8ofwm7s.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 15
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr> writes:
+
+> However, nel compiles without sound enabled.
+
+Well, nearly. Once nel/bootstrap has run, it is no longer to configure
+nel *without* sound:
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nel$ ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --enable-ai  --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL --disable-sound
+checking for OpenAL headers... no
+checking for OpenAL libraries... no
+configure: error: OpenAL is needed to compile NeL (http://www.openal.org).
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com Fri Jan 25 06:22:31 2002
+Received: from smtp012.mail.yahoo.com (smtp012.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.32])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0P5MUw47829
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:22:31 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <000701c1a55f$b165cec0$0204a8c0@port.port.com>
+From: "Tony Hoyt" <gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:18:15 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Subject: [Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This error sounds like a config issue on my side. But I have no idea how to
+fix it.. When building nelns 3d, I get this..
+
+--------------------Configuration: misc - Win32
+DebugFast--------------------
+Compiling...
+vector_2f.cpp
+vector_h.cpp
+fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+        (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+         Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+         Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+information
+vectord.cpp
+fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+        (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+         Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+         Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+information
+etc.
+
+  Any idea what's going on?
+
+  Tony
+
+

+_________________________________________________________

+Do You Yahoo!?

+Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

+

+
+From logout@free.fr Fri Jan 25 09:50:42 2002
+Received: from smtp.completel.fr (smtp.completel.fr [213.244.0.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0P8ofw48971
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:50:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from logout@free.fr)
+Received: from dracont (unknown [213.30.163.34])
+	by smtp.completel.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 5ED75179D10
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:44:45 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <001f01c1a57d$a055ff10$1000a8c0@completel.fr>
+From: "Emmanuel Deloget" <logout@free.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000701c1a55f$b165cec0$0204a8c0@port.port.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:52:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+X-Reply-To: "Emmanuel Deloget" <logout@free.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Not sure but...
+
+You should try to install the last VC++ service pack if you don't.
+
+Another way to produce this kind of errors is to compile a project
+which lies in a shared directory on another machine. Another
+(again :) way is to compile a project on a non working hard drive
+- try to run scandisk.
+
+Hope this helps,
+
+--
+Emmanuel
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Tony Hoyt" <gmtonyhoyt@yahoo.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 6:18 AM
+Subject: [Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related
+exactly....
+
+
+: This error sounds like a config issue on my side. But I have no idea how
+to
+: fix it.. When building nelns 3d, I get this..
+:
+: --------------------Configuration: misc - Win32
+: DebugFast--------------------
+: Compiling...
+: vector_2f.cpp
+: vector_h.cpp
+: fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+:         (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+:          Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+:          Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+: information
+: vectord.cpp
+: fatal error C1001: INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR
+:         (compiler file 'msc1.cpp', line 1794)
+:          Please choose the Technical Support command on the Visual C++
+:          Help menu, or open the Technical Support help file for more
+: information
+: etc.
+:
+:   Any idea what's going on?
+:
+:   Tony
+:
+:
+: _________________________________________________________
+: Do You Yahoo!?
+: Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
+:
+: _______________________________________________
+: Nel mailing list
+: Nel@nevrax.org
+: http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+:
+
+
+From nik@xdv.org Fri Jan 25 18:47:00 2002
+Received: from step1.xdv.org (step1.xdv.org [62.116.31.126])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PHl0w51756
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:47:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nik@xdv.org)
+Received: from xdv.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
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+        for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:41:07 +0100
+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:41:07 +0100 (CET)
+From: nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+In-Reply-To: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251828370.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] ppc build
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+ok,. so nel (from yesterdays cvs) compiles + installs fine on debian-ppc with only a little change to time_nl.cpp. for the moment, it just fudges a return value to CTime::getPerformanceTime
+
+specifcally here ->
+
+#else // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+	unsigned long long int x;
+	__asm__ volatile (".byte 0x0f, 0x31" : "=A" (x));
+	return x;
+#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+
+what is this line of asm actually doing?+
+ and could it also be done in c?
+
+nk
+
+
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 25 19:13:51 2002
+Received: from mel-rto7.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-7.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.26])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PIDpw51947
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:07:33 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251828370.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 25 Jan 2002 19:07:33 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251828370.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+Message-ID: <87r8oegv8a.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 12
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org> writes:
+
+> ok,. so nel (from yesterdays cvs) compiles + installs fine on
+> debian-ppc with only a little change to time_nl.cpp. for the moment,
+> it just fudges a return value to CTime::getPerformanceTime
+
+I've been able to run it? You have an NVidia graphic card?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From nik@xdv.org Fri Jan 25 19:22:15 2002
+Received: from step1.xdv.org (step1.xdv.org [62.116.31.126])
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+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:16:22 +0100 (CET)
+From: nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+In-Reply-To: <87r8oegv8a.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251912530.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+>> ok,. so nel (from yesterdays cvs) compiles + installs fine on
+>> debian-ppc with only a little change to time_nl.cpp. for the moment,
+>> it just fudges a return value to CTime::getPerformanceTime
+>
+> I've been able to run it? You have an NVidia graphic card?
+>
+
+ i havent run it yet., is there a simpler demo than snowballs, or is that
+the test-suite :)
+
+ still trying to compile the ai code, a few small problems with python,
+but the sound stuff compiles fine.
+
+video card im using is ati, the nvidia drivers for ppc linux are still in
+the works i think.
+
+nk
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 25 19:35:32 2002
+Received: from mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-6.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PIZWw52122
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:29:28 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251912530.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 25 Jan 2002 19:29:28 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251912530.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+Message-ID: <87adv2gu7r.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 9
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+
+nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org> writes:
+
+> but the sound stuff compiles fine.
+
+Could you give me your configure ?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From nik@xdv.org Fri Jan 25 19:47:19 2002
+Received: from step1.xdv.org (step1.xdv.org [62.116.31.126])
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+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:41:26 +0100 (CET)
+From: nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+In-Reply-To: <87adv2gu7r.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251939330.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
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+
+> > but the sound stuff compiles fine.
+>
+> Could you give me your configure ?
+
+im not sure how usefull it would be., best method is to get rid of errors
+that ./configure script spits out.
+
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Fri Jan 25 20:50:08 2002
+Received: from freyja.in-orbit.net (w002.z064002027.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.27.2])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PJo7w52522
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+	id 16UCFK-0002jo-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:42:46 -0800
+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:47:47 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
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+
+thats fantastic news!
+
+can u run the services?
+
+Michael Warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment Inc.
+
+
+
+From nik@xdv.org Fri Jan 25 22:01:57 2002
+Received: from step1.xdv.org (step1.xdv.org [62.116.31.126])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PL1uw52871
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+	(envelope-from nik@xdv.org)
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+        for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:55:59 +0100
+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:55:59 +0100 (CET)
+From: nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+In-Reply-To: <E16UCFK-0002jo-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201252123390.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> can u run the services?
+>
+
+ they compile + install and run, but spew errors. .
+however, i cant really say this is unexpected, i think it has more to
+do with the local network than the nelns stuff. hostname problems +
+sorting out the config files.
+
+ill let u know if/how it works
+
+
+
+
+From nik@xdv.org Fri Jan 25 22:54:31 2002
+Received: from step1.xdv.org (step1.xdv.org [62.116.31.126])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0PLsVw53134
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:54:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nik@xdv.org)
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+Received: from localhost (nik@localhost)
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+        for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:48:38 +0100
+Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:48:38 +0100 (CET)
+From: nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201252123390.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201252248020.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> ill let u know if/how it works
+
+~/nevrax/snowballs2/client/snowballs
+INF28297 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN28297 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glSetFenceNV
+WRN28297 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+Aborted
+
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Sat Jan 26 01:58:33 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0Q0wXw54064
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:52:45 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251828370.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251828370.20205-100000@xdv.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Date: 26 Jan 2002 01:52:35 +0100
+Message-Id: <1012006356.779.305.camel@zerodeux.home>
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Fri, 2002-01-25 at 18:41, nik gaffney wrote:
+> 
+> ok,. so nel (from yesterdays cvs) compiles + installs fine on debian-ppc with only a little change to time_nl.cpp. for the moment, it just fudges a return value to CTime::getPerformanceTime
+> 
+> specifcally here ->
+> 
+> #else // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> 	unsigned long long int x;
+> 	__asm__ volatile (".byte 0x0f, 0x31" : "=A" (x));
+> 	return x;
+> #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> 
+> what is this line of asm actually doing?+
+>  and could it also be done in c?
+
+This is an invokation of the RDTSC x86 instruction, present in PPro/PII
+and newer models. It gives the value of a 64bit counter which is init'ed
+to zero at CPU boot, and inc'ed at each CPU cycle. You can't convert it
+to 'real time' without the knowledge of the CPU internal clock speed.
+
+I believe this is an unneeded optimisation because :
+
+1) gettimeofday() is often precise enough (sub-millisec) for a game (say
+100fps, thus 10ms average frame period)
+
+2) the implementation of gettimeofday() on Linux (it's a system call, so
+the glibc proto is only a thin wrapper) has been supporting RDTSC since
+a while (see arch/i386/kernel/time.c:do_fast_gettimeoffset(void))
+
+Conclusion: use gettimeofday() for time measures on Linux ! :)
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Sat Jan 26 05:01:37 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0Q41aw57640
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:01:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
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+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C223CB6FD
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 04:55:49 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Game Object Models
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: 
+	<0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC90190E0@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
+References: 
+	<0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC90190E0@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Date: 26 Jan 2002 04:55:38 +0100
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+On Tue, 2002-01-22 at 00:47, John Hayes wrote:
+> The problem is TCP is substantially slower for retransmission [...]
+
+At least you didn't say the famous 'TCP is slow' statement :)
+TCP is designed with precise purposes in mind, which are (in order) :
+sequential delivering of datagrams and reliability, both making up the
+'stream' service delivered by TCP. The notion of 'speed' is somewhat
+linked with the notion of reliability : it depends on your viewing
+window on the stream. If you expect a large amount of data to be
+delivered on a given schedule, then you won't ever notice that some
+packets of the window were late because they had to be retransmitted.
+The whole was globally on time. When you lower your window and reach the
+datagram size, a dropped packet means an immediate bandwidth drop, since
+you don't want to consider the following packets until the lost one is
+retransmitted.
+
+I believe the 'game model' is actually somewhere in between the stream
+and datagram notions. The fact that TCP has been designed with 'long'
+(considering our problem) timeouts comes from the congestion pb : all
+parameters of TCP have been finely tuned (in every implementation of
+TCP/IP stack) for a model that provides good cooperation between network
+nodes. TCP will bring sequentiality, reliability, inernet-wide
+cooperation, but certainly not delay guarantees, we all know that.
+
+> Ok, so no TCP, UDP is great but you don't want to reimplement TCP all
+> over again - reliability is good but you want the minimum number of
+> packet dependencies (loose ordering so the game doesn't stall) and the
+> minimum amount of retransmission (discard what you no longer care about)
+> but conflicting goal of a minimum amount of latency for retransmission
+> when it's required.
+
+The Internet infrastructure is packet driven : every packet is supposed
+to take an impredictable path between constant nodes, every packet can
+suffer a variable delay, and finaly packets can be dropped. We have to
+live with that, this is real life :)
+
+Sequentiality, reliability, delay and bandwith are all linked. In most
+cases you can't raise one without lowering the others. From there you
+can progress in two ways :
+
+- find a set of feature above IP (the lowest level you can access with
+Internet operability in mind) matching the closest to your needs. Expect
+to come up with your own layer 5 protocol over UDP, since it is rather
+difficult to 'remove' features from TCP :)
+
+- find the network properties you can live with. This is the most
+disregarded path. I'm always wondering why people always blindly try to
+implement more or less ackward reliability hacks over UDP, before even
+asking if they need reliability. Yes, you often can live with dropped
+packets : this is what interpolation and extrapolation is about.
+Detecting them is easy, if you numbered your packets for sequentiality.
+You might even find yourself dropping a late packet, because you already
+have fresher info (depends on the info carried by the packet, of
+course).
+
+
+> So - what kind of rules can we make up for this? Network messages from
+> the server to the client have two functions - updating state and
+> "one-shot" actions (which is really a special case of updating state).
+
+Your description is interesting. I won't comment directly on it, instead
+I would stress the importance of a dimension that is so commonly
+neglected : time.
+
+Considering the kind of real-time info you're mentioning (player pos,
+shot, etc), time is a vital info. The pb is that you don't have an
+absolute clock that every network node shares. With a synchronization
+protocol such as NTP you can achieve 1ms coherence on a LAN, maybe 500ms
+on a WAN/MAN if you're lucky, and most of all you'll need something like
+1 hour to converge toward this figure ! :)
+
+Until computers can get a pico-second timestamp from a GPS satellite,
+we'll have a tough ride. [Well, it is perfectly possible to connect a
+GPS device to your computer, but you won't ask this to all gamers... oh,
+and why not ?:)]
+
+So we don't have synchronized nodes, and what's worse, we don't know
+path time length between nodes, but we know this kind of value is not
+constant ! Ouch. Now you replicate a client object on a bunch of target
+nodes. What do they get _when_ they receive their copy  ? The state of
+the object at a slightly elapsed time. They don't know how much. The
+only measure you can get between two nodes is the round time trip (RTT),
+ie. the A->B->A time (what 'ping' measure). Since most packet delivery
+is assymetrical, you only have a poor estimation of A->B or B->A delays
+with RTT/2, and this measure is _not_ constant.
+
+When you realized that every node (clients and servers) have their own,
+timely view of the objects, my guess is that you end with two model of
+distribution :
+
+- centralized : one (server/master) node is considered to be the only
+one to have a full coherent view of all objects at any time. All other
+nodes (clients, or let's say more generaly 'slaves') have a slightly and
+globally delayed view of the referential view. If you get lucky, RTT 
+between master and slaves is homogeneous and you'll end up with tightly
+synchronized slaves. You'll only get into trouble when the master must
+integrate client responses, since they 1) are a reaction to an info
+which is 1 RTT late and 2) a client info which is ~RTT/2 late.
+
+  This approach has well known pb : if a client is notably lagging, he
+will contribute only sparse info to the server, and thus to all other
+clients. And it's often an advantage for the lagging player, since with
+poor inerpolation he will only exist on discrete time-space points of
+your scene (ever seen these quake players jumping from places to places
+between frames ? :)). But it is easy to implement.
+
+- fully distributed : the 'holy grail' :). In theory, each node is
+connected to all the other participating nodes. Of course, it's a
+bandwidth killer and it doesn't scale. But there are some points that
+make it somewhat conceivable :
+
+ * a node is often only affected by a few other nodes : the players in
+sight of your gun, etc. If every node can maintain a 'neighborhood
+dependency', you'll end with a finite number of links per node (depends
+on your game design, might prove wrong in a virtual stadium :))
+
+ * you might find optimal time paths between nodes. You actually have
+the internet model : choose any path to go from A to B ! Clients are not
+dependent on a server location/reachability.
+
+- in-between: such as the Fastrack P2P (peer-to-peer) model (Morpheus,
+Kazaaa, etc). A server holds a directory of nodes with relevant per-node
+info. You get connected to another node when you decided that it has
+relevant information for you (Hey, I want this DivX;). Not a real-time
+example, but a distribution model. Server themselves can belong to a P2P
+subnet, solving the directory scaling pb easily.
+
+Of course the P2P model is in its infancy, and what's important, the
+infrastructure is not ready. Multicast would be a blessing for instance,
+but it's only integrated in Ipv6, and there will be a long time before
+global routers do multicast. You'll also eagerly wait for scheduling
+options (again in IPv6, IPv4 has an 'urgent' bit which is ignored by
+most routers), they will enable you to choose VoIP-like (real time
+behaviour) which would be of course very desirable for MMORPG.
+
+--
+
+Well, just my 2 cents. I had something like that in my head when the TCP
+vs UDP debate occured. My main concerns are (as a conclusion) :
+
+- can't you cope with the inherent non-sequential and unreliable
+Internet infrastructure rather than applying a TCP-like work around ?
+
+- think 4D, _time_ counts ! I wouldn't talk about a 'replication pb',
+rahter an 'information transportation pb'. This is where the strict
+object concept fails : an object must be considered in its environment.
+An object stored in A at time t0, and arriving in B a t0+t doesn't carry
+the same information. Pretty disturbing to locate objects in time and
+space, eh ? Time slips, nothing to do about that ... :))
+
+- data/computing distribution is an open problem today. However there
+are solutions on many precise applications at very different scales
+(Mosix clusters, NUMA, Fastrack, [Internet at the packet level]!), so
+why not a good model for MMORPG ?
+
+So long. If I was clear somewhere, you're lucky ;)
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan 28 10:35:18 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0S9ZGw73651
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:35:17 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0S9TNJ42695
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:29:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006701c1a7de$456af3e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201251828370.20205-100000@xdv.org> <1012006356.779.305.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] ppc build
+Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:29:23 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+Hi,
+
+> I believe this is an unneeded optimisation because :
+
+We use the RDTSC only for profile/bench purpose when we want to tune little
+part of code but if CTime::getPerformanceTime() returns 0, all the code will
+work fine (but you ll don't have profil timing, but anyway, they are
+temporary). But if  you want, you can use gettimeofday() instead of
+returning 0.
+
+PPC issues:
+
+Even if you can compile NeL and NeL services (NeLNS) I think you should have
+some problem between communication if you use x86 and PPC because it could
+have some bug in the endianess functions in serialization (we never really
+try them). So if you have some Stream Exception, it could come from this
+problem.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Jan 28 10:42:03 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0S9g1w73714
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:42:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0S9a5J42803
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:36:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <009301c1a7df$351c7e90$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me><87ell037 cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me><003b01c198f7$71970030$0601a8c0@lionelb><1010617456.755.20.camel@zerodeux.home><000701c1a323$d56ba8f0$0601a8c0@lionelb><1011714937.750.171.camel@zerodeux.home> <874rlby2bu.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:36:05 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Vincent,
+
+> Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net> writes:
+> [ BTW, I know there is a special french touch for video games, but I
+>   didn't know that it consists in putting french words like "Abandon" in
+>   error messages. :) ]
+
+I search the word Abandon in all the NeL directory sources/includes and look
+the result:
+
+Searching for 'Abandon'...
+Cannot find the string 'Abandon'.
+
+So think that the real french touch is to install french linux distribution
+on your computer!!!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jan 28 14:45:13 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0SDjAw75064
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:45:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0SDcJu38341
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:38:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:38:19 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+Message-ID: <20020128143819.A38290@nevrax.com>
+References: <87zo3j5ign.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <20020122162431.A14628@nevrax.com> <87d6zzy3ou.fsf@wanadoo.fr> <87zo33wn2w.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
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+In-Reply-To: <87zo33wn2w.fsf@wanadoo.fr>; from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 08:44:39PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+Hi David,
+
+According to David MENTRE:
+> 
+> Oops!! Sorry, you effectively fixed it. I just forgot to run
+> nelns/bootstrap before recompiling.
+> 
+> Once again, sorry for the wrong bug report,
+
+No problems :-)
+
+> BTW, speaking of the configure scripts, why is it necessary to give all
+> --with-stlport, --with-stlport-include and --with-stlport-lib options? I
+> though that a single --with-stlport would be sufficient.
+
+--with-stlport is sufficient. The configure script will will automatically
+set the STLPort include directory to <STLPort_Diretory>/stlport and the
+stlport STLPort lib directory to <STLPort_Diretory>/lib ...
+
+Is the run of the bootstrap fix that problem too ?
+
+I cannot reproduce it, it works fine on my computer :
+
+   $ ~/cvs/code/nel/configure --with-stlport=/home/valignat/installs/STLport-4.5.1 --with-python-version=2
+   loading cache ./config.cache
+   [...]
+   checking for STLPort headers... /home/valignat/installs/STLport-4.5.1/stlport
+   checking for STLPort libraries... /home/valignat/installs/STLport-4.5.1/lib
+   [...]
+
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jan 28 16:08:25 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0SF8Pw75488
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:01:37 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+Message-ID: <20020128160137.A38386@nevrax.com>
+References: <87zo3j5ign.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me> <20020122162431.A14628@nevrax.com> <87d6zzy3ou.fsf@wanadoo.fr> <87zo33wn2w.fsf@wanadoo.fr> <20020128143819.A38290@nevrax.com>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+Oops ... i just realized that i didn't manage the fact the STLPort
+headers could be installed in an 'include' directory (doh ! :-) ... i fixed
+it and it will be in the public CVS tonight.
+
+Thanks for the bug report :-)
+
+
+According to Cedric Valignat:
+> 
+> > BTW, speaking of the configure scripts, why is it necessary to give all
+> > --with-stlport, --with-stlport-include and --with-stlport-lib options? I
+> > though that a single --with-stlport would be sufficient.
+> 
+> --with-stlport is sufficient. The configure script will will automatically
+> set the STLPort include directory to <STLPort_Diretory>/stlport and the
+> stlport STLPort lib directory to <STLPort_Diretory>/lib ...
+> 
+> Is the run of the bootstrap fix that problem too ?
+> 
+> I cannot reproduce it, it works fine on my computer :
+> 
+>    $ ~/cvs/code/nel/configure --with-stlport=/home/valignat/installs/STLport-4.5.1 --with-python-version=2
+>    loading cache ./config.cache
+>    [...]
+>    checking for STLPort headers... /home/valignat/installs/STLport-4.5.1/stlport
+>    checking for STLPort libraries... /home/valignat/installs/STLport-4.5.1/lib
+>    [...]
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> Cedric.
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+-- 
+Cedric
+
+    Frappe ta tête contre une cruche. Si tu obtiens un son creux,
+    n'en déduis pas que c'est forcément la cruche qui est vide.
+
+                                                       Lao Tseu.
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Jan 28 16:12:42 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0SFCgw75541
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:06:50 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <009301c1a7df$351c7e90$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+References: 
+	<87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me><87ell037
+	 
+	cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me><003b01c198f7$7197
+	
+	0030$0601a8c0@lionelb><1010617456.755.20.camel@zerodeux.home><000701c1a323$d
+	 56ba8f0$0601a8c0@lionelb><1011714937.750.171.camel@zerodeux.home>
+	<874rlby2bu.fsf@wanadoo.fr>  <009301c1a7df$351c7e90$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
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+
+On Mon, 2002-01-28 at 10:36, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> [ BTW, I know there is a special french touch for video games, but I
+>   didn't know that it consists in putting french words like "Abandon" in
+>   error messages. :) ]
+
+Hi Vianney,
+
+This is actually a David Mentre's quote, and your assumption about him
+running a french locale seems right to me :)
+
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jan 28 16:17:06 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:10:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:10:15 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+Message-ID: <20020128161015.A84820@nevrax.com>
+References: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i
+In-Reply-To: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr>; from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 06:02:08PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi David, hi all,
+
+According to David MENTRE:
+> 
+> [...]
+> checking for OpenAL headers... /usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0//include
+> checking for OpenAL libraries... no
+>                                  ^^ why??
+
+It's because i made a little syntax error in the OpenAL macro ... it's
+fixed ... sorry about that :-(
+
+Thanks for the report ...
+
+-- 
+Cedric
+
+    Frappe ta tête contre une cruche. Si tu obtiens un son creux,
+    n'en déduis pas que c'est forcément la cruche qui est vide.
+
+                                                       Lao Tseu.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jan 28 16:31:46 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0SFVaw75753
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:31:40 +0100 (CET)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0SFPRJ47478
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+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0SFOYQ85032
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:24:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:24:34 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+Message-ID: <20020128162434.B84820@nevrax.com>
+References: <87lmeny967.fsf@wanadoo.fr> <878zany3lo.fsf@wanadoo.fr> <87r8ofwm7s.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i
+In-Reply-To: <87r8ofwm7s.fsf@wanadoo.fr>; from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr on Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:03:19PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Another stupid mistake from me ... it's fixed ... grrrr
+
+Thanks again David :-)
+
+I hope it will works fine now ;-)
+
+
+According to David MENTRE:
+> Well, nearly. Once nel/bootstrap has run, it is no longer to configure
+> nel *without* sound:
+> david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nel$ ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/include/stlport --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/lib/ --enable-ai  --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL --disable-sound
+> checking for OpenAL headers... no
+> checking for OpenAL libraries... no
+> configure: error: OpenAL is needed to compile NeL (http://www.openal.org).
+
+-- 
+Cedric
+
+    Frappe ta tête contre une cruche. Si tu obtiens un son creux,
+    n'en déduis pas que c'est forcément la cruche qui est vide.
+
+                                                       Lao Tseu.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Jan 28 19:17:34 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0SIHYw76690
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:17:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0SIBdJ49726
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+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0SIAkD92198
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:10:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:10:46 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20020128191045.A92177@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i
+Subject: [Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi all,
+
+I found a big bug in NeL's M4 macros and that break the configure
+scripts of NeLNS and Snowballs so i have to rewrite a part of it :-(
+
+I will send a mail to the mailling list when it will be fixed (tomorrow).
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Mon Jan 28 21:54:30 2002
+Received: from mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.254])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0SKsUw77636
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:54:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.193) by mel-rto2.wanadoo.fr; 28 Jan 2002 21:48:31 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.66.211) by mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr; 28 Jan 2002 21:48:18 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16VIhN-0000FX-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:48:17 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+References: <87n0zo3d4p.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<87ell037 cv.fsf@oops.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-shoot-me>
+	<003b01c198f7$7197 0030$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+	<1010617456.755.20.camel@zerodeux.home> <000701c1a323$d
+	56ba8f0$0601a8c0@lionelb> <1011714937.750.171.camel@zerodeux.home>
+	<874rlby2bu.fsf@wanadoo.fr> <009301c1a7df$351c7e90$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+	<3c5569f23caf0cb6@mel-rti2.wanadoo.fr>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 28 Jan 2002 21:48:17 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <3c5569f23caf0cb6@mel-rti2.wanadoo.fr> (added by mel-rti2.wanadoo.fr)
+Message-ID: <87zo2yqk1a.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 10
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net> writes:
+
+> This is actually a David Mentre's quote, and your assumption about him
+> running a french locale seems right to me :)
+
+Oops, shame on me. 
+
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com Tue Jan 29 08:11:33 2002
+Received: from mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com ([207.219.170.6])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:11:32 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com)
+content-class: urn:content-classes:message
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Game Object Models
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1A893.577C40E5"
+Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:05:32 -0500
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4712.0
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+Thread-Topic: [Nel] Game Object Models
+Thread-Index: AcGmHm9Xg7R8HqT/QmmGglOm9F9QOgCdNmw+
+From: "John Hayes" <john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
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+
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C1A893.577C40E5--
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Jan 29 14:42:45 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:35:51 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+Message-ID: <20020129143551.A34543@nevrax.com>
+References: <20020128191045.A92177@nevrax.com>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <20020128191045.A92177@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 07:10:46PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi all,
+
+It's fixed and i just synchronized the public CVS so it's avalaible ...
+
+Cedric.
+
+According to Cedric Valignat:
+> 
+> I found a big bug in NeL's M4 macros and that break the configure
+> scripts of NeLNS and Snowballs so i have to rewrite a part of it :-(
+> 
+> I will send a mail to the mailling list when it will be fixed (tomorrow).
+
+
+
+From nel-list@mindcontrol.org Tue Jan 29 19:07:47 2002
+Received: from moe.sfrn.dnai.com (moe.sfrn.dnai.com [208.59.199.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0TI7jw84987
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:07:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nel-list@mindcontrol.org)
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+From: "Nel List \(Jon\)" <nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:01:42 -0800
+Message-ID: <HEEPKGEBODEJKCIJIJBLCEJPDCAA.nel-list@mindcontrol.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+In-Reply-To: <200201290713.g0T7DAw81622@www.nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] Plain text messages, please?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+I'm sure the message was very interesting. Unfortunately, those of 
+us receiving the digest only got a vague feeling like being in "The 
+Matrix" :-)
+
+Cheers,
+
+			/ h+
+
+> Message: 8
+> Subject: RE: [Nel] Game Object Models
+> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:05:32 -0500
+> From: "John Hayes" <john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+> 
+> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+> 
+> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1A893.577C40E5
+> Content-Type: text/plain;
+> 	charset="utf-8"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
+> 
+> SSB3YXMgc3RhcnRpbmcgdG8gd29uZGVyIGlmIHRoaXMgZ3JvdXAgd2FzIG9uIDotKQ
+> 0KDQo+IC0t
+> LS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQoNCj4gRnJvbTogbmVsLWFkbWluQG5ldn
+> JheC5vcmcg
+> W21haWx0bzpuZWwtYWRtaW5AbmV2cmF4Lm9yZ11PbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YNCg0KPiBWaW
+> 5jZW50IENh
+> cm9uDQoNCj4gU2VudDogSmFudWFyeSAyNSwgMjAwMiAxMDo1NiBQTQ0KDQo+IFRvOi
+> BuZWxAbmV2
+> cmF4Lm9yZw0KDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTmVsXSBHYW1lIE9iamVjdCBNb2RlbH
+> MNCg0KPiAN
+> Cg0KPiANCg0KPiBPbiBUdWUsIDIwMDItMDEtMjIgYXQgMDA6NDcsIEpvaG4gSGF5ZX
+> Mgd3JvdGU6
+
+...
+ 
+
+From john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com Tue Jan 29 19:19:30 2002
+Received: from mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com ([207.219.170.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0TIJSw85073
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:19:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com)
+content-class: urn:content-classes:message
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Game Object Models (was:  Plain text messages, please?)
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:13:28 -0500
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+Thread-Topic: [Nel] Plain text messages, please?
+Thread-Index: AcGo72F/P026OgcGSNy+2jV2L/QlsAAAOtxw
+From: "John Hayes" <john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g0TIJSw85073
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I don't know what possessed Outlook to base-64 encode a plain text
+message, but here a redux that really should make it through plain text:
+
+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+> Vincent Caron
+> Sent: January 25, 2002 10:56 PM
+> To: nel@nevrax.org
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] Game Object Models
+
+> On Tue, 2002-01-22 at 00:47, John Hayes wrote:
+> At least you didn't say the famous 'TCP is slow' statement :)
+
+Well that's just plain vague - does slow refer to latency or bandwidth?
+In TCP's case, the latency is low until you lose data.
+
+> TCP will bring sequentiality, reliability, inernet-wide
+> cooperation, but certainly not delay guarantees, we all know that.
+
+And neither will UDP, or any internet protocol ... but I'll get to that
+below.
+
+> - find the network properties you can live with. This is the most
+> disregarded path. I'm always wondering why people always 
+> blindly try to
+> implement more or less ackward reliability hacks over UDP, before even
+> asking if they need reliability. Yes, you often can live with dropped
+> packets : this is what interpolation and extrapolation is about.
+> Detecting them is easy, if you numbered your packets for 
+> sequentiality.
+> You might even find yourself dropping a late packet, because 
+> you already
+> have fresher info (depends on the info carried by the packet, of
+> course).
+
+This is what I was attempting to describe (although it wasn't really my
+point for the whole email - just an example). Thing is, there isn't a
+single protocol that'll meet all of your needs, there's several
+scenarios:
+
+1. You need "stream" or "large packet" transmission. These must be
+received in the exact order that they are transmitted and none can be
+dropped. An example is character connection where you immediately get a
+large amount of data - in this case it's more efficient to repair the
+data than retransmit the entire large packet and hope it makes it
+through correctly. This is the most "TCP-like" - with the only
+difference being a more aggressive retransmit - or it *could* be a
+separate TCP channel, the implementation options are .
+
+2. Reliable Datagram, transmission that must be successful but is order
+independent. An example of this kind of chat text. You do care about
+every message making it but the order is largely irrelevant. Another
+example might be significant animations[1]
+
+3. Unreliable Datagrams, the most UDP like - stuff where you don't care
+if the packet gets lost, insignificant sound effects and animations.
+
+4. Latest Data, you only need to know the newest data. Out of order
+packets don't bother you as long as you can tell which one is newer and
+the server retransmits. A special case of this data is velocity data -
+covered later.
+
+Now some interesting tidbits, and I should be able to bring this back to
+my original point. You have parameters you can tune for such a system.
+
+Frequency: how long after a change a the protocol waits to transmit -
+frequently changing data should have it's transmission capped to a fixed
+frequency. Slower updating data may have a frequency of 0[2].
+
+Aggressiveness: how long after sending a data update should the server
+before for retransmitting. This directly affects the latency increase as
+the connection reliability drops. Tuning this parameter is related to
+the frequency - if the data is expected to change again pretty soon,
+it's probably faster to wait until that happens rather than retransmit.
+
+Now - if getting the optimal communication requires all of these
+protocols and then further tuning down to the attribute level, I think
+this is the missing link to your plaint that contemporary games
+implement too much reliability instead of customizing it.[3] Because
+it's *easier* to implement reliability for everything.
+
+If it were built into the framework that you could downgrade the
+reliability selectively down to the field level - into a data model
+(with a fancy editor no less), then it would become practical lengthen
+the frequency until people complain, then turn it down a bit. Maybe not
+too scientific, but the goal is the *appearance* of responsiveness not
+actual responsiveness :-)
+
+Now - then you swapped topic:
+
+> > So - what kind of rules can we make up for this? Network 
+> messages from
+> > the server to the client have two functions - updating state and
+> > "one-shot" actions (which is really a special case of 
+> updating state).
+> 
+> Your description is interesting. I won't comment directly on 
+> it, instead
+> I would stress the importance of a dimension that is so commonly
+> neglected : time.
+
+I was thinking that I'd just hand wave this one away as an application
+domain problem :-) But you dragged me into it - I leave it to the reader
+to consult the summary.
+
+> When you realized that every node (clients and servers) have 
+> their own,
+> timely view of the objects, my guess is that you end with two model of
+> distribution :
+> 
+> - centralized : one (server/master) node is considered to be the only
+> one to have a full coherent view of all objects at any time. All other
+> nodes (clients, or let's say more generaly 'slaves') have a 
+> slightly and
+> globally delayed view of the referential view. You'll only get into
+> trouble when the master must
+> integrate client responses, since they 1) are a reaction to an info
+> which is 1 RTT late and 2) a client info which is ~RTT/2 late.
+> - fully distributed : the 'holy grail' :). In theory, each node is
+> connected to all the other participating nodes. Of course, it's a
+> bandwidth killer and it doesn't scale. But there are some points that
+> make it somewhat conceivable :
+
+It'll use about twice as much bandwidth as client/server model. But you
+have all the same problems magnified, since every client (and the
+server) still work on a different time base. Which client's
+interpretation is correct, or is the server's correct (P2P broken)?
+
+The biggest practical barrier is more users are behind NAT/firewalls and
+have difficulty receiving incoming connections without configuration
+(mapping ports) or a 3rd party forwarding.
+
+> * a node is often only affected by a few other nodes : the players in
+> sight of your gun, etc. If every node can maintain a 'neighbourhood
+> dependency', you'll end with a finite number of links per 
+> node (depends
+> on your game design, might prove wrong in a virtual stadium :))
+
+Server has to do the same work anyways determining who can see who. You
+could make a P2P system do the same thing, but there's a couple bits of
+trickery: one node has to be able to discover other nodes (moving closer
+to another node can cause that node to transmit nodes it knows to be in
+it's own view) and bootstrapping (how does a node initially discover
+who's nearby). 
+
+---
+
+For the timing problem the answer is similar to the packet reliability
+problem. Do you care? I can think of two applications where you do -
+timing enforcement such as making sure animations take as long as
+they're supposed to, velocity checking, and server-side physics. Only
+one of the commercial MMOG's has server-side physics - so maybe it's not
+a big issue, or maybe everyone else is scared to touch it.
+
+For cheating, using something like NTP, you can spot over a few minutes
+whether someone's clock is sliding.
+
+John
+
+- Lets burn that bridge when we come to it
+
+[1] Something with a very obvious tactical or dramatic influence.
+[2] I'm aware that by 0, I mean infinity, and I'm not really talking
+about frequency but time.
+[3] Low latency "LAN" games will do things like transmit every packet
+2-5 times and assume it's gets through.
+
+From y.poeymirou@wanadoo.fr Tue Jan 29 22:50:43 2002
+Received: from mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.188])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0TLogw86106
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+	(envelope-from y.poeymirou@wanadoo.fr)
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+Message-ID: <002e01c1a90d$c825bd30$0a00000a@mrbrown>
+From: "Yvan POEYMIROU" <y.poeymirou@wanadoo.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:41:58 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1A916.28D70780"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1A916.28D70780
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello,
+
+I've tried to build NeL sources on Visual C++ 6.0 SP 5 (I have included =
+all required libraries, and tried with 2 versions of OpenAL : =
+openal-20020127.zip CVS SnapShot or Current CVS Repository).
+
+I took this message :
+
+********************************
+
+--------------------Configuration: driver_openal - Win32 =
+DebugFast--------------------
+Compiling...
+stdopenal.cpp
+E:\D=E9veloppement\NeL\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h=
+(60) : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'EAXSetProp'
+E:\D=E9veloppement\NeL\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h=
+(60) : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+nel - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+********************************
+sound_driver_al.h file seems like that on given line :
+
+********************************
+// alGenBuffers, alGenSources
+//typedef ALAPI ALvoid ALAPIENTRY (*TGenFunctionAL) ( ALsizei, ALuint* =
+);
+typedef ALvoid (*TGenFunctionAL) ( ALsizei, ALuint* );
+
+// alIsBuffer, alIsSource
+//typedef ALAPI ALboolean ALAPIENTRY (*TTestFunctionAL) ( ALuint );
+typedef ALboolean (*TTestFunctionAL) ( ALuint );
+
+
+#ifdef EAX_AVAILABLE
+// EAXSet global function
+extern EAXSet EAXSetProp;     <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< HERE !!!
+
+// EAXGet global function
+extern EAXGet EAXGetProp;
+#endif
+
+*********************************
+
+Thanks a lot.
+
+Yvan POEYMIROU
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1A916.28D70780
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've tried to build NeL sources on =
+Visual C++ 6.0=20
+SP 5 (I have included all required libraries, and tried with 2 versions =
+of=20
+OpenAL : openal-20020127.zip CVS SnapShot or Current CVS=20
+Repository).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I&nbsp;took this message :</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>********************************</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+driver_openal -=20
+Win32=20
+DebugFast--------------------<BR>Compiling...<BR>stdopenal.cpp<BR>E:\D=E9=
+veloppement\NeL\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60)=20
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+'EAXSetProp'<BR>E:\D=E9veloppement\NeL\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\s=
+ound_driver_al.h(60)=20
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found<BR>Error executing=20
+cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel - 2 error(s), 0 =
+warning(s)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2><BR>********************************</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sound_driver_al.h file seems like that =
+on given=20
+line :</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>********************************</DIV></FONT>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>// alGenBuffers, =
+alGenSources<BR>//typedef ALAPI=20
+ALvoid ALAPIENTRY (*TGenFunctionAL) ( ALsizei, ALuint* );<BR>typedef =
+ALvoid=20
+(*TGenFunctionAL) ( ALsizei, ALuint* );</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>// alIsBuffer, alIsSource<BR>//typedef =
+ALAPI=20
+ALboolean ALAPIENTRY (*TTestFunctionAL) ( ALuint );<BR>typedef ALboolean =
+
+(*TTestFunctionAL) ( ALuint );</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>#ifdef EAX_AVAILABLE<BR>// EAXSet global function<BR>extern=20
+EAXSet&nbsp;EAXSetProp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&=
+lt;&lt;&lt;=20
+HERE !!!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>// EAXGet global function<BR>extern=20
+EAXGet&nbsp;EAXGetProp;<BR>#endif<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>*********************************</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Thanks a lot.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Yvan POEYMIROU</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></DIV></FONT>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1A916.28D70780--
+
+
+From delire@selectparks.net Wed Jan 30 00:42:41 2002
+Received: from laudanum.net (server42.aitcom.net [208.234.0.36])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0TNgew86798
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+From: "delire" <delire@selectparks.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 10:36:18 +1100
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Subject: [Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1AB0C.4842F730
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+hi,
+trying to compile nel2 on a healthy 2.4.2 kernel. everything necessary =
+is installed, however having problems with STLport 4.0
+
+STLport itself successfully installed yet on nl compile it fails...
+it's passing to ld and then fails saying it can't find STLport4.0. I've =
+tried with a newer version of STLport also, I think 4.5.1
+
+cheers,
+
+delire
+
+www.selectparks.net=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1AB0C.4842F730
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>trying to compile nel2 on a healthy =
+2.4.2 kernel.=20
+everything necessary is installed, however having problems with STLport=20
+4.0</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>STLport itself successfully installed =
+yet on nl=20
+compile it fails...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>it's passing to ld and then fails =
+saying it can't=20
+find STLport4.0. I've tried&nbsp;with a newer version of STLport also, I =
+
+think&nbsp;4.5.1</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>cheers,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>delire</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.selectparks.net">www.selectparks.net</A></FONT>&nbsp;<=
+/DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1AB0C.4842F730--
+
+
+From nik@xdv.org Wed Jan 30 00:51:39 2002
+Received: from step1.xdv.org (step1.xdv.org [62.116.31.126])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0TNpdw86884
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:51:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nik@xdv.org)
+Received: from xdv.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
+        by localhost (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id g0TNjhaL007150
+        for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:45:43 +0100
+Received: from localhost (nik@localhost)
+        by xdv.org (8.12.0.Beta7/8.12.0.Beta7/Debian 8.12.0.Beta7-1) with ESMTP id g0TNjh8g007146
+        for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:45:43 +0100
+Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:45:43 +0100 (CET)
+From: nik gaffney <nik@xdv.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+In-Reply-To: <001201c1aab0$1653a0f0$1601a8c0@ep320xr>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201300043310.4531-100000@xdv.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+slep dlri,.
+
+check the args to ./configure match the path of the stlport
+libs + headers.  does it configure properly, or is it a compile/make
+problem?
+
+nk
+
+On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, delire wrote:
+
+> hi,
+> trying to compile nel2 on a healthy 2.4.2 kernel. everything necessary is installed, however having problems with STLport 4.0
+>
+> STLport itself successfully installed yet on nl compile it fails...
+> it's passing to ld and then fails saying it can't find STLport4.0. I've tried with a newer version of STLport also, I think 4.5.1
+>
+> cheers,
+>
+> delire
+>
+> www.selectparks.net
+>
+>
+
+
+From cado@nevrax.com Wed Jan 30 12:01:30 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0UB1Tw91206
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:01:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0UAtYJ64868
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:55:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from cado@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <3C57D126.A743EBAD@nevrax.com>
+Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:55:34 +0100
+From: Olivier Cado <cado@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; I)
+X-Accept-Language: fr,en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+References: <002e01c1a90d$c825bd30$0a00000a@mrbrown>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello,
+ 
+> E:\Développement\NeL\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60)
+> : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier
+> 'EAXSetProp'
+> E:\Développement\NeL\code\nel\src\sound\driver\openal\sound_driver_al.h(60)
+> : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+> Error executing cl.exe.
+
+Make sure to add the right include paths in your settings.
+Under Windows, let's say you have installed OpenAL in the folder C:\OpenAL.
+The include paths will be C:\OpenAL\Win and C:\OpenAL\Win\AL
+(the paths C:\OpenAL\Include and C:\OpenAL\Include\AL are the wrong ones :-).
+This is because the OpenAL platform-dependant implementations have been
+developed separately and the header files did not remain the same
+(slightly different function names, arguments, defines, and so on).
+
+I hope this will help.
+
+Regards,
+Olivier Cado
+-- 
+      Nevrax   http://www.nevrax.com
+       Ryzom   http://www.ryzom.com
+         NeL   http://www.nevrax.org
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 30 21:59:15 2002
+Received: from mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-4.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.23])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0UKxFw94534
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:59:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.79) by mel-rto4.wanadoo.fr; 30 Jan 2002 21:53:12 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.252.189.108) by mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr; 30 Jan 2002 21:52:55 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16W1iw-0001U9-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:52:54 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+References: <20020128191045.A92177@nevrax.com>
+	<20020129143551.A34543@nevrax.com>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 30 Jan 2002 21:52:53 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <20020129143551.A34543@nevrax.com>
+Message-ID: <873d0nlfx6.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 40
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> It's fixed and i just synchronized the public CVS so it's avalaible ...
+
+Success report: the configure script runs flawlessly. It detects xml-2,
+OpenAL and STLport without any problem. My machine is a Debian 3.0
+(woody/testing).
+
+Great work Cedric ! Many thanks.
+
+Best regards,
+david
+
+Command line used:
+david@oops:~/pub/NeL/code/nel$ ./configure --with-stlport=/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5/ --enable-sound --enable-ai --with-openal=/usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0/ --prefix=/usr/local/Installed/NeL
+
+Relevant excerpt of the ./configure:
+
+checking for STLPort headers... /usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5//include/stlport
+checking for STLPort libraries... /usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5//lib
+checking for OpenAL headers... /usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0//include
+checking for OpenAL libraries... /usr/local/Installed/OpenAL-1.0//lib
+checking for python... no
+checking for python2.1... no
+checking for python2.0... no
+checking for python1.5... /usr/bin/python1.5
+checking for Python headers... /usr/include/python1.5
+checking for Python libraries... /usr/lib/python1.5/config
+checking for xml2-config... /usr/bin/xml2-config
+checking for libxml - version >= 2.0.0... yes (version 2.4.12)
+checking for freetype-config... /usr/bin/freetype-config
+checking for FreeType version = 2... yes
+checking for FreeType libraries... yes
+checking for OpenGL headers and GL Version >= 1.2... yes
+checking for <GL/glext.h> and GLEXT version >= 7... yes
+checking for OpenGL libraries... yes
+checking for XF86VidMode extension... yes
+
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com Thu Jan 31 05:42:02 2002
+Received: from mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com ([207.219.170.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0V4g1w97488
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:42:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com)
+content-class: urn:content-classes:message
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1AA10.C80EBC74"
+Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:35:59 -0500
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4712.0
+Message-ID: <0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC9019100@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
+X-MS-Has-Attach: 
+X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC9019100@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
+Thread-Topic: [Nel] Game Object Models
+Thread-Index: AcGmHm9Xg7R8HqT/QmmGglOm9F9QOgCbZput
+From: "John Hayes" <john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: [Nel] Data Ownership
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
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+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
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+
+------_=_NextPart_001_01C1AA10.C80EBC74--
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Thu Jan 31 17:53:03 2002
+Received: from relay-3v.club-internet.fr (relay-3v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.114])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0VGr3w01300
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:53:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns06v-12-122.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.119.122])
+	by relay-3v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 44EE7179C
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:47:05 +0100 (CET)
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:43:48 +0100
+Message-ID: <OGENLBAJAKLBNBNKCKAOMEABCAAA.neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] SnowBall login prb
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello everybody
+
+after all the problem of building i m able to launch Snowball
+game is running but i m not able to login to server
+
+i Press F1
+then enter
+login : kissmaniac
+pass: *******
+
+(  i dont register anywhere ) -> may be automaticallly at first login
+
+but i have an error in game console :
+Log Starting [02/01/31 01:47:07]
+INF 1160 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+INF 1160 global_retriever.cpp 536 : PACS: insured position inside surface
+(95,13)
+INF 1160 global_retriever.cpp 536 : PACS: insured position inside surface
+(53,0)
+INF 1160 client.cpp 275 : Welcome to Snowballs !
+INF 1160 client.cpp 276 :
+INF 1160 client.cpp 277 : Press SHIFT-ESC to exit the game
+INF 1160 string_id_array.h 188 : static const char *OtherSideAssociations[]
+= {
+INF 1160 string_id_array.h 191 :  "AA",
+INF 1160 string_id_array.h 191 :  "RA",
+INF 1160 string_id_array.h 191 :  "RAA",
+INF 1160 string_id_array.h 191 :  "VLP",
+INF 1160 string_id_array.h 191 :  "SCS",
+INF 1160 string_id_array.h 193 : };
+WRN 2164 sock.cpp 117 : Exception will be launched: Socket error: Connection
+closed (0)
+INF 1160 sock.cpp 291 : Report for blocking socket itsalive.nevrax.org:49999
+(195.68.21.196): Max send time: 0 Max recv time: 290
+INF 1160 sock.cpp 292 : Max send time: 0
+
+
+there a socket prb !!! what that mean ?? where can i adjust delay of
+response ? or it is a internal error ? or server is shutdown ?
+
+
+thanks all
+
+is quite beautiful for a free game !!!
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Fri Feb  1 01:25:25 2002
+Received: from fep09-svc.tin.it (mta09-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.40])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g110PPw04005
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 01:25:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([80.116.38.215]) by fep09-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20020201001923.BDGB16294.fep09-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 01:19:23 +0100
+Message-ID: <00ec01c1aab5$9b6207a0$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 01:15:50 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E9_01C1AABD.FCBB78D0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] libxml2
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01C1AABD.FCBB78D0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Do NeL require a version of libxml2 > 2.4.5 now?
+
+I'm getting the following error while compiling the LevelDesignstuff:
+
+--------------------Configuration: georges - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Linking...
+   Creating library ReleaseDebug/georges_release_debug.lib and object =
+ReleaseDebug/georges_release_debug.exp
+nlmisc_rd.lib(o_xml.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_xmlSaveFormatFileTo
+../master/georges_release_debug.dll : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved =
+externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+master.exe - 2 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01C1AABD.FCBB78D0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do NeL require a version of libxml2 =
+&gt; 2.4.5=20
+now?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm getting the following error while =
+compiling the=20
+LevelDesignstuff:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: =
+georges - Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Linking...<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Creating =
+library=20
+ReleaseDebug/georges_release_debug.lib and object=20
+ReleaseDebug/georges_release_debug.exp<BR>nlmisc_rd.lib(o_xml.obj) : =
+error=20
+LNK2001: unresolved external symbol=20
+_xmlSaveFormatFileTo<BR>../master/georges_release_debug.dll : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals<BR>Error executing =
+link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>master.exe - 2 error(s), 0=20
+warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E9_01C1AABD.FCBB78D0--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Fri Feb  1 01:39:10 2002
+Received: from fep09-svc.tin.it (mta09-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.40])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g110d9w04186
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 01:39:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([80.116.38.215]) by fep09-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20020201003307.BDRV16294.fep09-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 01:33:07 +0100
+Message-ID: <00f601c1aab7$86d1fb90$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 01:29:35 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C1AABF.E8148960"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Doc additions..
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C1AABF.E8148960
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00F3_01C1AABF.E8148960"
+
+
+------=_NextPart_001_00F3_01C1AABF.E8148960
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I added a bit of sectios to NeL's INSTALL file where I describe the =
+setup process for libxml2 since it seems that it's been forgotten :)
+
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_001_00F3_01C1AABF.E8148960
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I added a bit of sectios to NeL's =
+INSTALL file=20
+where I describe the setup process for libxml2 since it seems that it's =
+been=20
+forgotten :)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_001_00F3_01C1AABF.E8148960--
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C1AABF.E8148960
+Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
+	name="INSTALL_tanis"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="INSTALL_tanis"
+
+
+Requirements
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+
+   The NeL library need the following libraries :
+
+      - STLPort 4.0    <URL:http://www.stlport.org/>            =
+(Mandatory)
+      - FreeType 2     <URL:http://freetype.sourceforge.net/>   (NeL 3D)
+      - OpenAL         <URL:http://www.openal.org/>             (NeL =
+Sound)
+      - Python 1.5     <URL:http://www.python.org/>             (NeL AI)
+      - LibXML 2.4.13+ <URL:http://www.xmlsoft.org/>            (NeL =
+Misc)
+
+   STLPort need to be compiled. NeL is using the SGI iostreams and it =
+require
+   the STLPort compilation and a linking of NeL with the STLPort =
+library.
+
+   On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following libraries and
+   softwares :
+
+      - Autoconf       =
+<URL:http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf/autoconf.html>
+      - Automake       =
+<URL:http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/automake.html>
+      - Libtool        =
+<URL:http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/libtool.html>
+      - Lex / Flex     <URL:http://www.gnu.org/software/flex/flex.html>
+      - Yacc / Bison   =
+<URL:http://www.gnu.org/software/bison/bison.html>
+
+      - Mesa  3.3      <URL:http://www.mesa3d.org/>             (NeL 3D)
+
+   On some OpenGL implementations, you migth have some troubles, coming =
+from
+   the <GL/glext.h> file, to get NeL to compile. This file could be =
+missing
+   or not up to date. You will find the latest version of this file on =
+SGI's
+   website :
+
+      - glext.h        =
+<URL:http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h>
+
+   Most of our documentation is done using Doxygen, so you might need it
+   to read our prose and our code documentation. If you want have nice
+   graphs like dependency graphs, collaboration diagrams, or graphical
+   class hierarchy graphs you will need Graphviz :
+
+      - Doxygen        <URL:http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/>
+      - Graphviz       =
+<URL:http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/>
+  =20
+   Most of these softwares should be already installed on your system or
+   provided on your installation disk.=20
+
+   The given sofware or library version numbers are the ones that we are
+   using. We don't know if it working with other (older or more recent)
+   versions of these softwares or libraries. You are welcome to help us
+   to define more precisely these informations ;-)
+
+
+Compilation
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+
+   1. Windows compilation
+   ----------------------
+
+      The compilation on Windows has been done only with Visual C++ 6.0 =
+SP4.
+
+      You first need to compile STLport and FreeType libraries. It's a =
+quite
+      long compilation process, and you should carefully read these =
+libraries
+      documentation (at least the README and INSTALL files) before =
+compiling
+      and installing them.=20
+
+      STLport Compilation :
+
+         - Open a Dos window and go in the STLPort's src directory.
+
+         - Rename or copy the "vc6-unicode.mak" to "Makefile".
+
+         - Execute `nmake clean all` followed by `nmake install`.
+
+      FreeType compilation, by using GNU Make :
+
+         - You need to intall GNU make and to place it in the PATH.
+
+           =
+<URL:http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/swadv/AdvResults.asp?query=3Dgnumake-win3=
+2>
+
+         - Open a Dos window and go in the FreeType's directory.
+
+         - Execute `make setup visualc' followed by `make`.
+
+      FreeType compilation, by using an IDE :
+
+         - Compile every (base and optionnal) library components listed
+           at the end of the FreeType's INSTALL file.
+
+
+      libxml2 compilation, by using IDE :
+
+         - Open libxml2-2.4.xx\win32\dsp\libxml2.dsw
+         - Compile the libxml2 project.
+
+      Set up Visual C++ to find the STLPort and FreeType libraries. This
+      is done in the [Tools -> Options -> Directories] menu :
+
+         - Add the STLPort include directory to the "Library Files" =
+category.
+           The STLPort include *must* be inserted before the microsoft =
+one or
+           the compiler will take microsoft STL instead of STLPort STL.
+           (use the arrow button to put the STLPort include at the top)
+           ex: D:/stlport-4.0/stlport
+
+         - Add the STLPort library directory to the "Library Files" =
+category.
+           ex: D:/stlport-4.0/lib
+
+         - Add the FreeType include directory to the "Include Files" =
+category.
+           ex: D:/freetype-2.0/include
+
+         - Add the FreeType library directory to the "Library Files" =
+category.
+           ex: D:/freetype-2.0/obj
+
+         - Add the libxml2 include directory to the "Include Files" =
+category.
+           ex: D:/libxml2-2.4.xx/include/libxml
+
+         - Add the libxml2 library directory to the "Library Files" =
+category.
+           ex: D:/libxml2-2.4.xx/win32/dsp/libxml2
+
+      Open the workspace file "nel.dsw" (in the menu [File -> =
+Workspace]).
+
+      Setup Visual C++ to find the NeL include and library files :
+
+         - Add the NEL include directory to the "Include Files" =
+category.
+           ex: D:/test/code/nel/include
+
+         - Add the NEL source directory to the "Include Files" category.
+           ex: D:/test/code/nel/src
+
+         - Add the NeL library directory to the "Library Files" =
+category.
+           ex: D:/test/code/nel/lib
+
+
+   2. GNU/Linux compilation
+   ------------------------
+
+      In the NeL directory do :
+
+       In the case (ex: after a cvs checkout) that you need to rebuild =
+the
+       "configure" script and/or the "Makefile.in" files, execute the
+       "bootstrap" script in the NeL directory :
+=20
+         % ./bootstrap
+
+         % ./configure =
+--with-stlport=3D<Path_to_the_stlport_install_directory>
+
+         % make
+
+      The "configure" script must be call with the "--with-stlport".
+      The option "--with-stlport" allow to override the default STL =
+headers
+
+      It is possible to compile and install only the needed part of NeL.
+      So you may, by using --disable-<net|3d|pacs> and =
+--enable-<sound|ai> :
+
+         - misc
+              default: Mandatory
+         - net
+              default: Enables
+              desativate with: --disable-net
+         - 3d
+              default: Enable
+              desativate with: --disable-3d=20
+         - pacs
+              default: Enable
+              desativate with: --disable-pacs
+         - sound
+              default: Disable
+              ativate with: --enable-sound
+         - ai
+              default: Disable
+              ativate with: --enable-ai=20
+
+      To pass additional arguments to the C++ compiler, use the command =
+line :
+
+         % CXXFLAGS=3D-pipe ./configure =
+--with-stlport=3D<STLPort_headers_path>
+
+      To get the complete list of arguments of the "configure" script =
+use the
+      following command :
+
+         % ./configure --help
+
+
+Installation
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+
+   1. Windows installation
+   -----------------------
+
+      Not done yet.
+
+
+   2. GNU/Linux installation
+   --------------------------
+
+      % make install
+
+
+Contact us
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+
+   If you find any bugs use the Nevrax Bug Tracking System :
+  =20
+      <URL:http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/>
+
+   If you need any help contact us on the NeL mailing-list :
+     =20
+      <URL:http://www.nevrax.org/mail/>
+     =20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00F2_01C1AABF.E8148960--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Fri Feb  1 02:10:27 2002
+Received: from fep09-svc.tin.it (mta09-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.40])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g111ARw04926
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:10:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([80.116.38.215]) by fep09-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20020201010426.BEYH16294.fep09-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:04:26 +0100
+Message-ID: <010901c1aabb$e6679980$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:00:53 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0106_01C1AAC4.47C29150"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Error in WorldEditor Project
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0106_01C1AAC4.47C29150
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+WorldEditor.cpp
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: =
+'R:\code\nel\tools\3d\ligo\WorldEditor\WorldEditor.cpp': No such file or =
+directory
+
+Some paths are still screwed..
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0106_01C1AAC4.47C29150
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>WorldEditor.cpp<BR>fatal error C1083: =
+Cannot open=20
+source file: 'R:\code\nel\tools\3d\ligo\WorldEditor\WorldEditor.cpp': No =
+such=20
+file or directory<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some paths are still =
+screwed..</DIV></FONT><FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0106_01C1AAC4.47C29150--
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Fri Feb  1 02:15:29 2002
+Received: from fep09-svc.tin.it (mta09-acc.tin.it [212.216.176.40])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g111FTw05002
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:15:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: from tanis ([80.116.38.215]) by fep09-svc.tin.it
+          (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP
+          id <20020201010928.BFBS16294.fep09-svc.tin.it@tanis>
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:09:28 +0100
+Message-ID: <011201c1aabc$9a49b5a0$0364a8c0@tanis>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:05:55 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010F_01C1AAC4.FBAAC7F0"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] mainfrmView.cpp missing
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_010F_01C1AAC4.FBAAC7F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+mainfrmView.cpp is missing from the WorldEditor directory. It is =
+included in the project but the file does not exists.. and I think it =
+contains the OnMenuFileView() method implementation since it's missing =
+;)
+
+--
+c'ya!
+
+Valerio Santinelli
+tanis@mediacom.it
+HateSeed Gaming Magazine http://www.hateseed.com/
+My Lab http://tanis.hateseed.com/
+In Flames Italia http://www.inflames.it/
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_010F_01C1AAC4.FBAAC7F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>mainfrmView.cpp is missing from the =
+WorldEditor=20
+directory. It is included in the project but the file does not exists.. =
+and I=20
+think it contains the OnMenuFileView() method implementation since it's =
+missing=20
+;)</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><BR>--<BR>c'ya!</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Valerio Santinelli<BR><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:tanis@mediacom.it">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>HateSeed =
+Gaming=20
+Magazine <A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com/">http://www.hateseed.com/</A><BR>My=20
+Lab <A =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com/">http://tanis.hateseed.com/</A><BR>In =
+
+Flames Italia <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it/">http://www.inflames.it/</A><BR></FONT></=
+DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_010F_01C1AAC4.FBAAC7F0--
+
+
+From sorn@dsl.upc.es Fri Feb  1 16:06:11 2002
+Received: from dukas.upc.es (dukas.upc.es [147.83.2.62])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g11F6Aw15655
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:06:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from sorn@dsl.upc.es)
+Received: from dsl.upc.es (dsl.upc.es [147.83.61.61])
+	by dukas.upc.es (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g11F0Dc8006009
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:02:50 +0100
+Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:02:49 +0100 (CET)
+From: David Artiga Torrijos <sorn@dsl.upc.es>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0202011551430.28248-100000@dsl.upc.es>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi all.
+
+After solving the problem with glSetFenceNV I tried to compile the OpenGL
+driver and I got the following:
+
+(blah blah blah)
+*** Warning: This library needs some functionality provided by -lXxf86vm.
+*** I have the capability to make that library automatically link in when
+*** you link to this library.  But I can only do this if you have a
+*** shared version of the library, which you do not appear to have.
+*** The inter-library dependencies that have been dropped here will be
+*** automatically added whenever a program is linked with this library
+*** or is declared to -dlopen it.
+c++ -shared  driver_opengl.lo driver_opengl_extension.lo
+driver_opengl_light.lo driver_opengl_material.lo driver_opengl_matrix.lo
+driver_opengl_states.lo driver_opengl_texture.lo driver_opengl_vertex.lo
+driver_opengl_vertex_program.lo unix_event_emitter.lo  -lGL
+-L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -lstlport_gcc -lc  -Wl,-soname
+-Wl,libnel_drv_opengl.so.0 -o .libs/libnel_drv_opengl.so.0.0.0
+(cd .libs && rm -f libnel_drv_opengl.so.0 && ln -s
+libnel_drv_opengl.so.0.0.0 libnel_drv_opengl.so.0)
+(blah blah blah)
+
+So I looked for the vidmode library and found that I have the static
+version only, not the shared (on a Debian box with xlibs-dev-4.1.0). I
+solved it by adding a "-lXxf86vm" at the previous compile line (this flag
+is set in the static version of the OpenGL driver but not in the shared
+one).
+
+I was happy about my success but when launching the Snowballs2 client I
+got:
+
+INF 8467 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN 8467 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glBindProgramNV
+WRN 8467 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+(Again problems with extensions)
+I looked in common.cpp and saw that the availability of the extensions is
+only checked in Windows version... :(
+
+So... one problem solved, twenty appeared :)
+
+(Sorry about my english)
+Happy coding.
+
+David Artiga
+
+
+
+From y.poeymirou@wanadoo.fr Mon Feb  4 18:22:37 2002
+Received: from mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-3.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.233])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g14HMaw65048
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:22:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from y.poeymirou@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta6.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.222) by mel-rto3.wanadoo.fr; 4 Feb 2002 18:16:33 +0100
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+Message-ID: <004101c1ad9f$205c4dd0$0a00000a@mrbrown>
+From: "Yvan POEYMIROU" <y.poeymirou@wanadoo.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:12:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi all,
+
+I have some difficulties to compile SnowBalls2 (with VC++ 6.0 SP5) :
+
+********************
+--------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Linking...
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_Attach_File
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_New_Face
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_Init_FreeType
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_Load_Glyph
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_Get_Char_Index
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_Set_Pixel_Sizes
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_Render_Glyph
+nl3d_rd.lib(font_generator.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_FT_Get_Kerning
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 8 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+snowballs.exe - 9 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+********************
+
+It may comes from FreeTypes linking (_FT_... ?), but I test it with
+FreeTypes 2.0 and 2.0.6 and my path contains, I think, good links for this :
+#include# -> E:\DÉVELOPPEMENT\NEL\FREETYPE-2.0\INCLUDE', etc.
+#library# -> 'E:\DÉVELOPPEMENT\NEL\FREETYPE-2.0\OBJ',
+E:\DÉVELOPPEMENT\NEL\CODE\NEL\LIB". etc.
+
+Thanks
+
+Your sincerly
+
+Yvan
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Mon Feb  4 18:35:03 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g14HZ2w65145
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:35:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: from gw.nevrax.com (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g14HT3J15244
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:29:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
+Received: (from valignat@localhost)
+	by gw.nevrax.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g14HSko23178
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:28:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:28:46 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] SnowBall login prb
+Message-ID: <20020204182846.A23162@nevrax.com>
+References: <OGENLBAJAKLBNBNKCKAOMEABCAAA.neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i
+In-Reply-To: <OGENLBAJAKLBNBNKCKAOMEABCAAA.neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>; from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr on Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 05:43:48PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi jean-philippe,
+
+We are curently experiencing some problems with the Snowballs server.,
+it should be fixed soon.
+
+We will keep you informed of the server status ...
+
+Sorry about that.
+
+According to neuser jean-philippe:
+> 
+> after all the problem of building i m able to launch Snowball
+> game is running but i m not able to login to server
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Feb  4 18:40:56 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g14Hetw65207
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:40:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [213.167.146.97] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:34:38 Z
+Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:01:35 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <50180406771.20020204180135@in-orbit.net>
+To: Yvan POEYMIROU <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+In-reply-To: <004101c1ad9f$205c4dd0$0a00000a@mrbrown>
+References: <004101c1ad9f$205c4dd0$0a00000a@mrbrown>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Yvan,
+
+YP> I have some difficulties to compile SnowBalls2 (with VC++ 6.0 SP5) :
+
+You need to add freetype.lib into the link section of the
+project settings.
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From ogaste@free.fr Mon Feb  4 19:59:16 2002
+Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g14IxGw65647
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:59:16 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ogaste@free.fr)
+Received: from free.fr (nas-cbv-9-160-215.dial.proxad.net [62.147.160.215])
+	by postfix3-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DCB17F29
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon,  4 Feb 2002 19:53:17 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3C5EDA26.25EF6C4@free.fr>
+Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:59:50 +0100
+From: Olivier =?iso-8859-1?Q?GAST=C9?= <ogaste@free.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: "nel@nevrax.org" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] New on board
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello all
+My name is Olivier GASTÉ, I'm french and new on board. 
+I'm realtime system engineer and I'm intrested about realtime
+distributed decision and planifications systems. I have now about nevrax
+and nel only few days ago. Can someone make me a short abstract (perhaps
+offlist) of what nel is (or must be) and what sort of distributed IA
+problems it's brings. Ive read a big part of documentation but I've not
+well understand evry thing. I will be certainly intressted to work on.
+
+thank's to all 
+
+Olivier aka Proff
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Tue Feb  5 01:01:53 2002
+Received: from relay-1v.club-internet.fr (relay-1v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.112])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1501rw67106
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 01:01:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns03v-6-151.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.41.151])
+	by relay-1v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 8122F16EA
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue,  5 Feb 2002 00:55:53 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000801c1add6$d9a79650$9729c2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:51:22 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.3AF4D280"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] information sur nevrax
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.3AF4D280
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Salut Olivier=20
+je te conseille d'aller voir ce lien=20
+http://www.newswire.ca/releases/November2000/10/c3405.html
+il explique brievement ce qu'est nevrax
+A+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.3AF4D280
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Salut Olivier </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>je te conseille d'aller voir ce lien =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.newswire.ca/releases/November2000/10/c3405.html">http:=
+//www.newswire.ca/releases/November2000/10/c3405.html</A></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>il explique brievement ce qu'est=20
+nevrax</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A+</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.3AF4D280--
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Tue Feb  5 01:05:09 2002
+Received: from relay-2v.club-internet.fr (relay-2v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.113])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g15059w67150
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 5 Feb 2002 01:05:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns03v-6-151.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.41.151])
+	by relay-2v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A52816A1
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue,  5 Feb 2002 00:59:08 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000801c1add7$4e580610$9729c2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:54:38 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.AFB91860"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.AFB91860
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Olivier=20
+you have to add the librairie Freetype.lib in setting of project
+A+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.AFB91860
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Olivier </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you have to add the librairie =
+Freetype.lib in=20
+setting of project</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ADDF.AFB91860--
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Tue Feb  5 23:03:17 2002
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+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:52:42 +0100
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+Subject: [Nel] 3D driver
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+
+Hello everybody=20
+i have a problem because i developpe with a PC without 3D card =
+accelerated.
+I would like to know if there is an opengl emulation driver that i could =
+use .=20
+
+thanks=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1AE97.D1E89560
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello everybody </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have a problem because i developpe =
+with a PC=20
+without 3D card accelerated.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would like to know if there is an =
+opengl=20
+emulation driver that i could use . </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
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+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Feb  5 23:39:54 2002
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue,  5 Feb 2002 23:33:58 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 3D driver
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <001d01c1ae8f$707840d0$3429c2d4@kissmaniac>
+References: <001d01c1ae8f$707840d0$3429c2d4@kissmaniac>
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+Date: 05 Feb 2002 23:33:50 +0100
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+
+On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 22:52, neuser jean-philippe wrote:
+> Hello everybody 
+> i have a problem because i developpe with a PC without 3D card accelerated.
+> I would like to know if there is an opengl emulation driver that i could use . 
+
+Under Windows you can use Microsoft default software rendering driver.
+Under Linux, FreeBSD or others, you can use Mesa3D
+(http://www.mesa3d.org). But concerning the NeL library, you won't go
+very far since it targets and requires high end 3D hardware. Even for
+the simplest demo.
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb  7 02:30:55 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
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+Message-ID: <15457.55130.266746.803388@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 02:24:42 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
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+Subject: [Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Following the advices of Vincent Caron I managed to get a snowballs
+client that core dumps instead of barking because of a missing glSetFenceNV
+symbol. During the process, I was trapped by something I could not figure out
+and temporarily worked around by patching gl.h (Mesa-4.0.1). The 
+GL_ARB_multitexture block of gl.h does not contain the typedefs that
+show in the glext.h (
+typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+...
+). Since gl.h is included before glext.h, the typedefs are missing. 
+I hesitated to simply duplicate them in the nel sources. There must be
+a solution to include them although I can't currently figure out how.
+
+	At the end of the patch there is a minor fix to the acinclude.m4
+so that the proper STL debug library is loaded with --with-debug=full is
+activated. I quickly backed up to --with-debug alone, though, because the
+STL-4.0 library in debug more creates problems in which I had no inclination
+to dive ;-) It dumps core during the iostream initialization.
+
+	When I first ran the snowballs client, a window appeared and the 
+core dump occured at the following point:
+
+(gdb) run
+Starting program: /spare3/nel/bin/snowballs 
+[New Thread 1024 (LWP 22130)]
+INF22130 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+[New Thread 2049 (LWP 22131)]
+[New Thread 1026 (LWP 22132)]
+DBG22130 driver_opengl.cpp 563 : XOpenDisplay on 'loic.dachary.org:10.0' OK
+DBG22130 driver_opengl.cpp 600 : glXChooseVisual OK
+DBG22130 driver_opengl.cpp 611 : glXCreateContext() OK
+DBG22130 driver_opengl.cpp 646 : XCreateWindow() OK
+WARNING: This Mesa Library includes the Glide driver but
+         you have not defined the MESA_GLX_FX env. var.
+         (check the README.3DFX file for more information).
+
+         you can disable this message with a 'export MESA_GLX_FX=disable'.
+DBG22130 driver_opengl_extension.cpp 576 : GLExt: GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_EXT_abgr GL_EXT_bgra GL_EXT_blend_color GL_EXT_blend_func_separate GL_EXT_blend_logic_op GL_EXT_blend_minmax GL_EXT_blend_subtract GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_convolution GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array GL_EXT_fog_coord GL_EXT_histogram GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_paletted_texture GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_polygon_offset GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_add GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_HP_occlusion_test GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_INGR_blend_func_separate GL_MESA_resize_buffers GL_MESA_window_pos GL_NV_blend_square GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_SGI_color_matrix GL_SGI_color_table GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_pixel_texture GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIX_depth_texture GL_SGIX_pixel_texture GL_SGIX_shadow GL_SGIX_shadow_ambient
+
+Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+[Switching to Thread 1024 (LWP 22130)]
+0x41a50aec in glMultiTexCoord1iARB () from /spare3/nel/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so
+(gdb) bt
+#0  0x41a50aec in glMultiTexCoord1iARB () from /spare3/nel/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so
+#1  0x41a0d33a in NL3D::CDriverGLStates::forceDefaults (this=0x86c1798, nbStages=4)
+    at driver_opengl_states.cpp:119
+#2  0x41a06657 in NL3D::CDriverGL::setDisplay (this=0x86c0588, wnd=0x0, 
+    mode=@0xbffffa74) at driver_opengl.cpp:813
+#3  0x40b25157 in NL3D::CDriverUser::setDisplay (this=0x8599160, mode=@0xbffffce0)
+    at driver_user.cpp:186
+#4  0x08063a9a in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffd74) at client.cpp:171
+#5  0x4177c6cf in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6
+
+
+	
+	I was puzzled since the matching line in driver_opengl_states is
+really a call to : glActiveTextureARB(GL_TEXTURE0_ARB+stage); I figured that
+I'd get more information by recompiling Mesa with debugging information. 
+And I did so with the sources of Mesa-4.0.1 and made sure nel + snowballs
+were recompiled from scratch using this instance of Mesa.
+
+	Running snowballs again showed something quite different, as it
+often happens when adding debugging information on top of a core dumping
+piece of code.
+
+(gdb) cd /spare3/nel/code/snowballs2/client/
+Working directory /spare3/nel/code/snowballs2/client.
+(gdb) run 
+Starting program: /spare3/nel/bin/snowballs 
+[New Thread 1024 (LWP 15015)]
+INF15015 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+[New Thread 2049 (LWP 15016)]
+[New Thread 1026 (LWP 15017)]
+DBG15015 driver_opengl.cpp 563 : XOpenDisplay on 'loic.dachary.org:10.0' OK
+DBG15015 driver_opengl.cpp 600 : glXChooseVisual OK
+
+Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+[Switching to Thread 1024 (LWP 15015)]
+0x41c5d52e in xmesa_register_swrast_functions (ctx=0x86c6dd8) at xm_dd.c:1037
+Current language:  auto; currently c
+(gdb) bt
+#0  0x41c5d52e in xmesa_register_swrast_functions (ctx=0x86c6dd8) at xm_dd.c:1037
+#1  0x41c59a0b in XMesaCreateContext (v=0x86c4b90, share_list=0x0) at xm_api.c:1661
+#2  0x41c5407d in Fake_glXCreateContext (dpy=0x86c1ee8, visinfo=0x86c49f8, 
+    share_list=0x0, direct=1) at fakeglx.c:1154
+#3  0x41c500d8 in glXCreateContext (dpy=0x86c1ee8, visinfo=0x86c49f8, shareList=0x0, 
+    direct=1) at glxapi.c:188
+#4  0x41a05bc8 in NL3D::CDriverGL::setDisplay (this=0x86c0578, wnd=0x0, 
+    mode=@0xbffffa74) at driver_opengl.cpp:603
+#5  0x40b25157 in NL3D::CDriverUser::setDisplay (this=0x8599160, mode=@0xbffffce0)
+    at driver_user.cpp:186
+#6  0x08063a9a in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffd74) at client.cpp:171
+#7  0x4177c6cf in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6
+(gdb) print swrast
+$1 = (SWcontext *) 0x0
+
+	There, I know why it core dumps. Not being familiar enough with Mesa,
+I can hardly imagine why that pointer is null. I'd expect Mesa to bark earlier
+with a nice error message but I guess it's too much asking :-)
+
+	Any kind of help or advice will be welcome.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.134
+diff -u -r1.134 driver_opengl.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp	18 Jan 2002 10:08:12 -0000	1.134
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp	7 Feb 2002 00:58:30 -0000
+@@ -37,7 +37,6 @@
+ 
+ #else // NL_OS_UNIX
+ 
+-#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+ #include <GL/glx.h>
+ 
+ #endif // NL_OS_UNIX
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.108
+diff -u -r1.108 driver_opengl.h
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h	18 Jan 2002 10:08:12 -0000	1.108
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h	7 Feb 2002 00:58:30 -0000
+@@ -42,7 +42,6 @@
+ 
+ #else // NL_OS_UNIX
+ 
+-#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+ #include <GL/glx.h>
+ 
+ #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.25
+diff -u -r1.25 driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.cpp	18 Jan 2002 10:08:12 -0000	1.25
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.cpp	7 Feb 2002 00:58:31 -0000
+@@ -23,17 +23,21 @@
+  * MA 02111-1307, USA.
+  */
+ 
++#define GLX_GLXEXT_PROTOTYPES
+ 
+ #include "stdopengl.h"
+ 
+ #include "driver_opengl_extension.h"
+ #include "3d/material.h"
+ 
+-
++#ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
++#define GetProcAddress glXGetProcAddressARB 
++#else /* NL_OS_WINDOWS */
++#define GetProcAddress wglGetProcAddress
++#endif /* NL_OS_UNIX */
+ 
+ // ***************************************************************************
+ // The exported function names for the windows platform.
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ // ARB_multitexture
+ //=================
+@@ -90,8 +94,10 @@
+ //====================
+ PFNGLFLUSHVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC	glFlushVertexArrayRangeNV;
+ PFNGLVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC			glVertexArrayRangeNV;
++#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC			wglAllocateMemoryNV;
+ PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC				wglFreeMemoryNV;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ 
+ // FenceNV.
+@@ -200,6 +206,7 @@
+ PFNGLSECONDARYCOLORPOINTEREXTPROC	glSecondaryColorPointerEXT;
+ 
+ 
++#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ // Pbuffer extension
+ //==================
+ PFNWGLCREATEPBUFFERARBPROC			wglCreatePbufferARB;
+@@ -218,9 +225,9 @@
+ 
+ // WGL_ARB_extensions_string
+ PFNWGFGETEXTENSIONSSTRINGARB		wglGetExtensionsStringARB;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ 
+-#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ 
+ 
+@@ -245,44 +252,42 @@
+ 	if(strstr(glext, "GL_ARB_multitexture")==NULL)
+ 		return false;
+ 
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-	if(!(glActiveTextureARB=(PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glActiveTextureARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glClientActiveTextureARB=(PFNGLCLIENTACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glClientActiveTextureARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glActiveTextureARB=(PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glActiveTextureARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glClientActiveTextureARB=(PFNGLCLIENTACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glClientActiveTextureARB")))return false;
+ 
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1SARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1sARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1IARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1iARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1FARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1fARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1dARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2SARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2sARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2IARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2iARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2FARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2fARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2dARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3SARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3sARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3IARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3iARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3FARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3fARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3dARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4SARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4sARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4IARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4iARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4FARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4fARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4dARB")))return false;
+-
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1SVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1svARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1IVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1ivARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1FVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1fvARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1DVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord1dvARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2SVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2svARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2IVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2ivARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2FVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2fvARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2DVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord2dvARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3SVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3svARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3IVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3ivARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3FVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3fvARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3DVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord3dvARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4SVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4svARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4IVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4ivARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4FVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4fvARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4DVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glMultiTexCoord4dvARB")))return false;
+-#endif
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1SARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1sARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1IARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1iARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1FARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1fARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1dARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2SARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2sARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2IARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2iARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2FARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2fARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2dARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3SARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3sARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3IARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3iARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3FARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3fARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3dARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4sARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4SARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4sARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4iARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4IARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4iARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4fARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4FARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4fARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4dARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4dARB")))return false;
++
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1SVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1svARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1IVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1ivARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1FVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1fvARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord1dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD1DVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord1dvARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2SVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2svARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2IVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2ivARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2FVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2fvARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord2dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD2DVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord2dvARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3SVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3svARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3IVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3ivARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3FVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3fvARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord3dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD3DVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord3dvARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4svARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4SVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4svARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4ivARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4IVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4ivARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4fvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4FVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4fvARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glMultiTexCoord4dvARB=(PFNGLMULTITEXCOORD4DVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glMultiTexCoord4dvARB")))return false;
+ 
+ 	return true;
+ }
+@@ -304,15 +309,13 @@
+ 	if(strstr(glext, "GL_ARB_texture_compression")==NULL)
+ 	  return false;
+ 
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-	if(!(glCompressedTexImage3DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGE3DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glCompressedTexImage3DARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glCompressedTexImage2DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGE2DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glCompressedTexImage2DARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glCompressedTexImage1DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGE1DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glCompressedTexImage1DARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glCompressedTexSubImage3DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXSUBIMAGE3DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glCompressedTexSubImage3DARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glCompressedTexSubImage2DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXSUBIMAGE2DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glCompressedTexSubImage2DARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glCompressedTexSubImage1DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXSUBIMAGE1DARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glCompressedTexSubImage1DARB")))return false;
+-	if(!(glGetCompressedTexImageARB=(PFNGLGETCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGEARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetCompressedTexImageARB")))return false;
+-#endif
++	if(!(glCompressedTexImage3DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGE3DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glCompressedTexImage3DARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glCompressedTexImage2DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGE2DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glCompressedTexImage2DARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glCompressedTexImage1DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGE1DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glCompressedTexImage1DARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glCompressedTexSubImage3DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXSUBIMAGE3DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glCompressedTexSubImage3DARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glCompressedTexSubImage2DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXSUBIMAGE2DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glCompressedTexSubImage2DARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glCompressedTexSubImage1DARB=(PFNGLCOMPRESSEDTEXSUBIMAGE1DARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glCompressedTexSubImage1DARB")))return false;
++	if(!(glGetCompressedTexImageARB=(PFNGLGETCOMPRESSEDTEXIMAGEARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetCompressedTexImageARB")))return false;
+ 
+ 	return true;
+ }
+@@ -336,19 +339,21 @@
+ 
+ #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 	// Get VAR adress.
+-	if(!(glFlushVertexArrayRangeNV=(PFNGLFLUSHVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glFlushVertexArrayRangeNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexArrayRangeNV=(PFNGLVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexArrayRangeNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(wglAllocateMemoryNV= (PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglAllocateMemoryNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(wglFreeMemoryNV= (PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglFreeMemoryNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glFlushVertexArrayRangeNV=(PFNGLFLUSHVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glFlushVertexArrayRangeNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glVertexArrayRangeNV=(PFNGLVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexArrayRangeNV")))return false;
++#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
++	if(!(wglAllocateMemoryNV= (PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglAllocateMemoryNV")))return false;
++	if(!(wglFreeMemoryNV= (PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglFreeMemoryNV")))return false;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ 	// Get fence adress.
+-	if(!(glDeleteFencesNV= (PFNGLDELETEFENCESNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glDeleteFencesNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(glGenFencesNV= (PFNGLGENFENCESNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGenFencesNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(glIsFenceNV= (PFNGLISFENCENVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glIsFenceNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(glTestFenceNV= (PFNGLTESTFENCENVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glTestFenceNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(glGetFenceivNV= (PFNGLGETFENCEIVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetFenceivNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(glFinishFenceNV= (PFNGLFINISHFENCENVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glFinishFenceNV")))return false;
+-	if(!(glSetFenceNV= (PFNGLSETFENCENVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSetFenceNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glDeleteFencesNV= (PFNGLDELETEFENCESNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glDeleteFencesNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glGenFencesNV= (PFNGLGENFENCESNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGenFencesNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glIsFenceNV= (PFNGLISFENCENVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glIsFenceNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glTestFenceNV= (PFNGLTESTFENCENVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glTestFenceNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glGetFenceivNV= (PFNGLGETFENCEIVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetFenceivNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glFinishFenceNV= (PFNGLFINISHFENCENVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glFinishFenceNV")))return false;
++	if(!(glSetFenceNV= (PFNGLSETFENCENVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSetFenceNV")))return false;
+ 
+ #endif
+ 
+@@ -372,11 +377,9 @@
+ 	if(strstr (glext, "GL_EXT_vertex_weighting")==NULL)
+ 		return false;
+ 
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-	if(!(glVertexWeightfEXT=(PFNGLVERTEXWEIGHTFEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexWeightfEXT")))return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexWeightfvEXT=(PFNGLVERTEXWEIGHTFVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexWeightfvEXT")))return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexWeightPointerEXT=(PFNGLVERTEXWEIGHTPOINTEREXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexWeightPointerEXT")))return false;
+-#endif
++	if(!(glVertexWeightfEXT=(PFNGLVERTEXWEIGHTFEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexWeightfEXT")))return false;
++	if(!(glVertexWeightfvEXT=(PFNGLVERTEXWEIGHTFVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexWeightfvEXT")))return false;
++	if(!(glVertexWeightPointerEXT=(PFNGLVERTEXWEIGHTPOINTEREXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexWeightPointerEXT")))return false;
+ 
+ 	return true;
+ }
+@@ -417,72 +420,69 @@
+ 	if(strstr(glext, "GL_NV_vertex_program")==NULL)
+ 		return false;
+ 
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-	if(!(glAreProgramsResidentNV= (PFNGLAREPROGRAMSRESIDENTNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glAreProgramsResidentNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glBindProgramNV= (PFNGLBINDPROGRAMNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glBindProgramNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glDeleteProgramsNV= (PFNGLDELETEPROGRAMSNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glDeleteProgramsNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glExecuteProgramNV= (PFNGLEXECUTEPROGRAMNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glExecuteProgramNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGenProgramsNV= (PFNGLGENPROGRAMSNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGenProgramsNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetProgramParameterdvNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMPARAMETERDVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetProgramParameterdvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetProgramParameterfvNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMPARAMETERFVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetProgramParameterfvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetProgramivNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMIVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetProgramivNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetProgramStringNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMSTRINGNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetProgramStringNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetTrackMatrixivNV= (PFNGLGETTRACKMATRIXIVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetTrackMatrixivNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetVertexAttribdvNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBDVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetVertexAttribdvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetVertexAttribfvNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBFVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetVertexAttribfvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetVertexAttribivNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBIVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetVertexAttribivNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glGetVertexAttribPointervNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBPOINTERVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glGetVertexAttribPointervNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glIsProgramNV= (PFNGLISPROGRAMNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glIsProgramNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glLoadProgramNV= (PFNGLLOADPROGRAMNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glLoadProgramNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glProgramParameter4dNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4DNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glProgramParameter4dNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glProgramParameter4dvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glProgramParameter4dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glProgramParameter4fNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4FNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glProgramParameter4fNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glProgramParameter4fvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glProgramParameter4fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glProgramParameters4dvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETERS4DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glProgramParameters4dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glProgramParameters4fvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETERS4FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glProgramParameters4fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glRequestResidentProgramsNV= (PFNGLREQUESTRESIDENTPROGRAMSNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glRequestResidentProgramsNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glTrackMatrixNV= (PFNGLTRACKMATRIXNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glTrackMatrixNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribPointerNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBPOINTERNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribPointerNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib1dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1DNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib1dNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib1dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib1dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib1fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1FNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib1fNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib1fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib1fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib1sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1SNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib1sNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib1svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib1svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib2dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2DNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib2dNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib2dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib2dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib2fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2FNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib2fNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib2fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib2fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib2sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2SNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib2sNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib2svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib2svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib3dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3DNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib3dNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib3dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib3dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib3fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3FNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib3fNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib3fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib3fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib3sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3SNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib3sNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib3svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib3svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib4dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4DNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib4dNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib4dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib4dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib4fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4FNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib4fNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib4fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib4fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib4sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4SNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib4sNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib4svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib4svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttrib4ubvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4UBVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttrib4ubvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs1dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS1DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs1dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs1fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS1FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs1fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs1svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS1SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs1svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs2dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS2DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs2dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs2fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS2FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs2fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs2svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS2SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs2svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs3dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS3DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs3dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs3fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS3FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs3fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs3svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS3SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs3svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs4dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4DVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs4dvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs4fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4FVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs4fvNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs4svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4SVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs4svNV"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glVertexAttribs4ubvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4UBVNVPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glVertexAttribs4ubvNV"))) return false;
+-
+-#endif
++	if(!(glAreProgramsResidentNV= (PFNGLAREPROGRAMSRESIDENTNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glAreProgramsResidentNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glBindProgramNV= (PFNGLBINDPROGRAMNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glBindProgramNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glDeleteProgramsNV= (PFNGLDELETEPROGRAMSNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glDeleteProgramsNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glExecuteProgramNV= (PFNGLEXECUTEPROGRAMNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glExecuteProgramNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGenProgramsNV= (PFNGLGENPROGRAMSNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGenProgramsNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetProgramParameterdvNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMPARAMETERDVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetProgramParameterdvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetProgramParameterfvNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMPARAMETERFVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetProgramParameterfvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetProgramivNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMIVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetProgramivNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetProgramStringNV= (PFNGLGETPROGRAMSTRINGNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetProgramStringNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetTrackMatrixivNV= (PFNGLGETTRACKMATRIXIVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetTrackMatrixivNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetVertexAttribdvNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBDVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetVertexAttribdvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetVertexAttribfvNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBFVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetVertexAttribfvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetVertexAttribivNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBIVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetVertexAttribivNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glGetVertexAttribPointervNV= (PFNGLGETVERTEXATTRIBPOINTERVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glGetVertexAttribPointervNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glIsProgramNV= (PFNGLISPROGRAMNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glIsProgramNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glLoadProgramNV= (PFNGLLOADPROGRAMNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glLoadProgramNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glProgramParameter4dNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4DNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glProgramParameter4dNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glProgramParameter4dvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glProgramParameter4dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glProgramParameter4fNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4FNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glProgramParameter4fNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glProgramParameter4fvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETER4FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glProgramParameter4fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glProgramParameters4dvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETERS4DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glProgramParameters4dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glProgramParameters4fvNV= (PFNGLPROGRAMPARAMETERS4FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glProgramParameters4fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glRequestResidentProgramsNV= (PFNGLREQUESTRESIDENTPROGRAMSNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glRequestResidentProgramsNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glTrackMatrixNV= (PFNGLTRACKMATRIXNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glTrackMatrixNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribPointerNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBPOINTERNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribPointerNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib1dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1DNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib1dNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib1dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib1dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib1fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1FNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib1fNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib1fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib1fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib1sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1SNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib1sNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib1svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB1SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib1svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib2dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2DNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib2dNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib2dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib2dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib2fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2FNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib2fNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib2fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib2fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib2sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2SNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib2sNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib2svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB2SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib2svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib3dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3DNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib3dNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib3dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib3dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib3fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3FNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib3fNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib3fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib3fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib3sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3SNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib3sNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib3svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB3SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib3svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib4dNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4DNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib4dNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib4dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib4dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib4fNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4FNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib4fNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib4fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib4fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib4sNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4SNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib4sNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib4svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib4svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttrib4ubvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIB4UBVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttrib4ubvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs1dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS1DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs1dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs1fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS1FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs1fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs1svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS1SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs1svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs2dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS2DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs2dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs2fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS2FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs2fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs2svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS2SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs2svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs3dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS3DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs3dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs3fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS3FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs3fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs3svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS3SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs3svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs4dvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4DVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs4dvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs4fvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4FVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs4fvNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs4svNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4SVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs4svNV"))) return false;
++	if(!(glVertexAttribs4ubvNV= (PFNGLVERTEXATTRIBS4UBVNVPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glVertexAttribs4ubvNV"))) return false;
+ 
+ 	return true;
+ }
+@@ -494,26 +494,23 @@
+ 	if(strstr(glext, "GL_EXT_secondary_color")==NULL)
+ 		return false;
+ 
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3bEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3BEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3bEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3bvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3BVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3bvEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3dEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3DEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3dEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3dvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3DVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3dvEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3fEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3FEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3fEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3fvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3FVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3fvEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3iEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3IEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3iEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3ivEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3IVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3ivEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3sEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3SEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3sEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3svEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3SVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3svEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3ubEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UBEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3ubEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3ubvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UBVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3ubvEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3uiEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UIEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3uiEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3uivEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UIVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3uivEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3usEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3USEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3usEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColor3usvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3USVEXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColor3usvEXT"))) return false;
+-	if(!(glSecondaryColorPointerEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLORPOINTEREXTPROC)wglGetProcAddress("glSecondaryColorPointerEXT"))) return false;
+-
+-#endif
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3bEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3BEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3bEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3bvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3BVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3bvEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3dEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3DEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3dEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3dvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3DVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3dvEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3fEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3FEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3fEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3fvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3FVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3fvEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3iEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3IEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3iEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3ivEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3IVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3ivEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3sEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3SEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3sEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3svEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3SVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3svEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3ubEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UBEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3ubEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3ubvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UBVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3ubvEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3uiEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UIEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3uiEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3uivEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3UIVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3uivEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3usEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3USEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3usEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColor3usvEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLOR3USVEXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColor3usvEXT"))) return false;
++	if(!(glSecondaryColorPointerEXT= (PFNGLSECONDARYCOLORPOINTEREXTPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"glSecondaryColorPointerEXT"))) return false;
+ 
+ 	return true;
+ }
+@@ -525,12 +522,12 @@
+ 		return false;
+ 
+ #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-	if(!(wglCreatePbufferARB= (PFNWGLCREATEPBUFFERARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglCreatePbufferARB"))) return false;
+-	if(!(wglGetPbufferDCARB= (PFNWGLGETPUFFERDCARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglGetPbufferDCARB"))) return false;
+-	if(!(wglReleasePbufferDCARB= (PFNWGLRELEASEPUFFERDCARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglReleasePbufferDCARB"))) return false;
+-	if(!(wglDestroyPbufferARB= (PFNWGLDESTROYPUFFERARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglDestroyPbufferARB"))) return false;
+-	if(!(wglQueryPbufferARB= (PFNWGLQUERYPBUFFERARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglQueryPbufferARB"))) return false;
+-#endif
++	if(!(wglCreatePbufferARB= (PFNWGLCREATEPBUFFERARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglCreatePbufferARB"))) return false;
++	if(!(wglGetPbufferDCARB= (PFNWGLGETPUFFERDCARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglGetPbufferDCARB"))) return false;
++	if(!(wglReleasePbufferDCARB= (PFNWGLRELEASEPUFFERDCARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglReleasePbufferDCARB"))) return false;
++	if(!(wglDestroyPbufferARB= (PFNWGLDESTROYPUFFERARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglDestroyPbufferARB"))) return false;
++	if(!(wglQueryPbufferARB= (PFNWGLQUERYPBUFFERARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglQueryPbufferARB"))) return false;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ 	return true;
+ }
+@@ -542,10 +539,10 @@
+ 		return false;
+ 
+ #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-	if(!(wglGetPixelFormatAttribivARB= (PFNWGLGETPIXELFORMATATTRIBIVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglGetPixelFormatAttribivARB"))) return false;
+-	if(!(wglGetPixelFormatAttribfvARB= (PFNWGLGETPIXELFORMATATTRIBFVARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglGetPixelFormatAttribfvARB"))) return false;
+-	if(!(wglChoosePixelFormatARB= (PFNWGLCHOOSEPIXELFORMATARBPROC)wglGetProcAddress("wglChoosePixelFormatARB"))) return false;
+-#endif
++	if(!(wglGetPixelFormatAttribivARB= (PFNWGLGETPIXELFORMATATTRIBIVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglGetPixelFormatAttribivARB"))) return false;
++	if(!(wglGetPixelFormatAttribfvARB= (PFNWGLGETPIXELFORMATATTRIBFVARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglGetPixelFormatAttribfvARB"))) return false;
++	if(!(wglChoosePixelFormatARB= (PFNWGLCHOOSEPIXELFORMATARBPROC)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglChoosePixelFormatARB"))) return false;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ 	return true;
+ }
+@@ -645,7 +642,7 @@
+ void	registerWGlExtensions(CGlExtensions &ext, HDC hDC)
+ {
+ 	// Get proc adress
+-	if(!(wglGetExtensionsStringARB=(PFNWGFGETEXTENSIONSSTRINGARB)wglGetProcAddress("wglGetExtensionsStringARB")))
++	if(!(wglGetExtensionsStringARB=(PFNWGFGETEXTENSIONSSTRINGARB)GetProcAddress((const GLubyte *)"wglGetExtensionsStringARB")))
+ 	{
+ 		nlwarning ("wglGetExtensionsStringARB not supported");
+ 		return;
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.20
+diff -u -r1.20 driver_opengl_extension.h
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.h	18 Jan 2002 10:08:12 -0000	1.20
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.h	7 Feb 2002 00:58:31 -0000
+@@ -36,12 +36,10 @@
+ 
+ #else // NL_OS_UNIX
+ 
+-#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+ #include <GL/glx.h>
+ 
+ #endif // NL_OS_UNIX
+ 
+-
+ #include <GL/gl.h>
+ #include <GL/glext.h>	// Please download it from http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"
+ 
+@@ -150,8 +148,6 @@
+ 
+ // ***************************************************************************
+ // The exported function names for the windows platform.
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+-
+ 
+ // ARB_multitexture
+ //=================
+@@ -209,8 +205,10 @@
+ //====================
+ extern PFNGLFLUSHVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC		glFlushVertexArrayRangeNV;
+ extern PFNGLVERTEXARRAYRANGENVPROC			glVertexArrayRangeNV;
++#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ extern PFNWGLALLOCATEMEMORYNVPROC			wglAllocateMemoryNV;
+ extern PFNWGLFREEMEMORYNVPROC				wglFreeMemoryNV;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ 
+ // FenceNV.
+@@ -319,6 +317,7 @@
+ extern PFNGLSECONDARYCOLORPOINTEREXTPROC	glSecondaryColorPointerEXT;
+ 
+ 
++#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ // Pbuffer extension
+ //==================
+ extern PFNWGLCREATEPBUFFERARBPROC			wglCreatePbufferARB;
+@@ -337,9 +336,7 @@
+ 
+ // WGL_ARB_extensions_string
+ extern PFNWGFGETEXTENSIONSSTRINGARB			wglGetExtensionsStringARB;
+-
+-#endif
+-
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 
+ #endif // NL_OPENGL_EXTENSION_H
+ 
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension_def.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension_def.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.6
+diff -u -r1.6 driver_opengl_extension_def.h
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension_def.h	5 Dec 2001 09:54:38 -0000	1.6
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension_def.h	7 Feb 2002 00:58:32 -0000
+@@ -373,6 +373,7 @@
+ 
+ 
+ /* NV_texture_shader */
++#if GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 9
+ #define GL_OFFSET_TEXTURE_RECTANGLE_NV    0x864C
+ #define GL_OFFSET_TEXTURE_RECTANGLE_SCALE_NV 0x864D
+ #define GL_DOT_PRODUCT_TEXTURE_RECTANGLE_NV 0x864E
+@@ -447,7 +448,7 @@
+ #define GL_TEXTURE_DS_SIZE_NV             0x871D
+ #define GL_TEXTURE_DT_SIZE_NV             0x871E
+ #define GL_TEXTURE_MAG_SIZE_NV            0x871F
+-
++#endif /* GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 9 */
+ 
+ 
+ 
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_states.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_states.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.12
+diff -u -r1.12 driver_opengl_states.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_states.cpp	28 Dec 2001 15:37:02 -0000	1.12
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_states.cpp	7 Feb 2002 00:58:32 -0000
+@@ -25,7 +25,6 @@
+ 
+ #include "stdopengl.h"
+ 
+-
+ // ***************************************************************************
+ // define it For Debug purpose only. Normal use is to hide this line
+ //#define		NL3D_GLSTATE_DISABLE_CACHE
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.5
+diff -u -r1.5 unix_event_emitter.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.cpp	13 Dec 2001 18:03:26 -0000	1.5
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.cpp	7 Feb 2002 00:58:35 -0000
+@@ -32,8 +32,6 @@
+ 
+ #include <X11/keysym.h>
+ 
+-#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+-
+ #include <GL/gl.h>
+ #include <GL/glx.h>
+ 
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+diff -u -r1.2 unix_event_emitter.h
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.h	8 Feb 2001 10:02:29 -0000	1.2
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/unix_event_emitter.h	7 Feb 2002 00:58:35 -0000
+@@ -31,8 +31,6 @@
+ 
+ #ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+ 
+-#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+-
+ #include <GL/gl.h>
+ #include <GL/glx.h>
+ 
+Index: snowballs2/acinclude.m4
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/snowballs2/acinclude.m4,v
+retrieving revision 1.7
+diff -u -r1.7 acinclude.m4
+--- snowballs2/acinclude.m4	29 Jan 2002 13:21:42 -0000	1.7
++++ snowballs2/acinclude.m4	7 Feb 2002 00:58:54 -0000
+@@ -364,7 +364,12 @@
+                           path to the STLPort library files directory.
+                           e.g. /usr/local/stlport/lib])
+ 
+-stlport_lib="stlport_gcc"
++if test "$with_debug" = "full"
++then
++	stlport_lib="stlport_gcc_stldebug"
++else
++	stlport_lib="stlport_gcc"
++fi
+ 
+ if test "$with_stlport" = no
+ then
+
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Valerio,
+
+According to Valerio Santinelli:
+> I added a bit of sectios to NeL's INSTALL file where I describe the setup
+> process for libxml2 since it seems that it's been forgotten :)
+
+Ouch ... sorry about that :-(
+
+I just commit the changes ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Thu Feb  7 18:12:03 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g17HC2W10526
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:12:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from valignat@gw.nevrax.com)
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+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g17H60k15448
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+	(envelope-from valignat)
+Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:05:33 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+Message-ID: <20020207180533.B13914@nevrax.com>
+References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0202011551430.28248-100000@dsl.upc.es>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i
+In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0202011551430.28248-100000@dsl.upc.es>; from sorn@dsl.upc.es on Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 04:02:49PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi David,
+
+According to David Artiga Torrijos:
+>
+> [...]
+> So I looked for the vidmode library and found that I have the static
+> version only, not the shared (on a Debian box with xlibs-dev-4.1.0). I
+> solved it by adding a "-lXxf86vm" at the previous compile line (this flag
+> is set in the static version of the OpenGL driver but not in the shared
+> one).
+
+Your problem might come from an old version of libtool. We are using a libtool
+version 1.4.2a and that works fine ... keep me informed of your progress
+please :-)
+
+> I was happy about my success but when launching the Snowballs2 client I
+> got:
+> 
+> INF 8467 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+> WRN 8467 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glBindProgramNV
+> WRN 8467 common.cpp 390 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+> not found
+>
+> (Again problems with extensions)
+> I looked in common.cpp and saw that the availability of the extensions is
+> only checked in Windows version... :(
+
+We are going to take a look on that ...
+
+> So... one problem solved, twenty appeared :)
+
+:-)
+
+> (Sorry about my english)
+> Happy coding.
+
+Thanks ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Feb  7 18:20:50 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g17HKnW10640
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  7 Feb 2002 18:14:49 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15457.55130.266746.803388@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15457.55130.266746.803388@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:14:45 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013102085.792.18.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+
+> (gdb) bt
+> #0  0x41c5d52e in xmesa_register_swrast_functions (ctx=0x86c6dd8) at xm_dd.c:1037
+> #1  0x41c59a0b in XMesaCreateContext (v=0x86c4b90, share_list=0x0) at xm_api.c:1661
+> #2  0x41c5407d in Fake_glXCreateContext (dpy=0x86c1ee8, visinfo=0x86c49f8, 
+>     share_list=0x0, direct=1) at fakeglx.c:1154
+> #3  0x41c500d8 in glXCreateContext (dpy=0x86c1ee8, visinfo=0x86c49f8, shareList=0x0, 
+>     direct=1) at glxapi.c:188
+> #4  0x41a05bc8 in NL3D::CDriverGL::setDisplay (this=0x86c0578, wnd=0x0, 
+>     mode=@0xbffffa74) at driver_opengl.cpp:603
+> #5  0x40b25157 in NL3D::CDriverUser::setDisplay (this=0x8599160, mode=@0xbffffce0)
+>     at driver_user.cpp:186
+> #6  0x08063a9a in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffd74) at client.cpp:171
+> #7  0x4177c6cf in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6
+> (gdb) print swrast
+> $1 = (SWcontext *) 0x0
+> 
+> 	There, I know why it core dumps. Not being familiar enough with Mesa,
+> I can hardly imagine why that pointer is null. I'd expect Mesa to bark earlier
+> with a nice error message but I guess it's too much asking :-)
+> 
+> 	Any kind of help or advice will be welcome.
+
+OK, so we're in a Mesa bug here, NeL is innocent. I had a peek at your
+pb since an OpenGL developer has always a tree of Mesa on his HD :)
+
+Looking at src/X/xm_api.c:XMesaCreateContext(), there's a bunch of
+initilization that could failed and ar not checked against :
+
+  /* Initialize the software rasterizer and helper modules.
+    */
+   _swrast_CreateContext( ctx );
+   _ac_CreateContext( ctx );
+   _tnl_CreateContext( ctx );
+   _swsetup_CreateContext( ctx );
+
+   xmesa_register_swrast_functions( ctx );
+
+In our case, _swrast_CreateContext's task is to setup a SWcontext and
+let SWRAST_CONTEXT(ctx) point at it. Since
+xmesa_register_swrast_functions() fails on a null SWcontext, we guess
+something went wrong in _swrast_CreateContext(). If we have a look at
+this function in src/swrast/s_context.c, we see a SWcontext creation can
+only fail from OOM (out of memory) : callees are CALLOC and
+_mesa_alloc_pb which CALLOCs too.
+
+Conclusion : seems you're running out of memory, but I'm pretty
+surprised since only small structs are involved during this init. I
+guess you should try to step from the call to _swrast_CreateContext() in
+xm_api.C to see what's really happening to our SWRAST_CONTEXT(ctx) (or
+namely ctx->swrast_context). Then we could decide if we should get in
+touch with the Mesa guys.
+
+Hopes this help.
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Feb  7 18:24:25 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g17HOPW10713
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu,  7 Feb 2002 18:18:25 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Data Ownership
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: 
+	<0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC9019100@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
+References: 
+	<0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC9019100@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:18:21 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013102301.977.23.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Thu, 2002-01-31 at 05:35, John Hayes wrote:
+> Who owns the data? Where is the data? Who's using the data?
+
+Hi John,
+
+you guessed Nevrax guys are pretty busy coding, and contributors are
+still working at a pretty low level ("hey, I'm segfaulting !" :)). I
+just wanted to say that while you fire up interesting issues, it needs
+time to read, think and answer, and many of us would be happy to have
+more time to do it ... Well, for the moment, if you don't have
+discussion peers you at least have an audience :). I'll try to react to
+your last mail, but it's not a promise :(
+
+
+
+From lazarus_z@hotmail.com Thu Feb  7 22:11:34 2002
+Received: from hotmail.com (f113.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.113])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g17LBXW14032
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+	Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:05:25 GMT
+X-Originating-IP: [206.183.27.50]
+From: "LaZaRuS Returns" <lazarus_z@hotmail.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:05:25 
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
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+X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Feb 2002 21:05:25.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[29CD23C0:01C1B01B]
+Subject: [Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+When compiling in NL_DEBUG mode i get this error:
+
+nel\nel\src\misc\bit_mem_stream.cpp(232) : error C2660: 'push_back' : 
+function does not take 0 parameters
+
+OS: Windows 2000 server sp2
+IDE: VC6 sp5
+Port: STLPort 4.5.1
+
+Regards,
+  Jean-Lou
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 11 10:37:19 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1B9bIW61102
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+Message-ID: <001601c1b2de$d917bd20$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <F113EfGHnEw8MJc0iUb000061bf@hotmail.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:31:13 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+Hi Jean-Lou
+
+> nel\nel\src\misc\bit_mem_stream.cpp(232) : error C2660: 'push_back' :
+> function does not take 0 parameters
+
+I use STLPort 4.5 and don't have this problem. Perhaps it s a problem on the
+last 4.5.1 version. Are you sure you put the stlport directory on the top of
+the included directories in the visual C setting (menu
+tools/options/directories)? If not, it uses visual stl that are not
+standard.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lazarus_z@hotmail.com Mon Feb 11 15:18:43 2002
+Received: from hotmail.com (f66.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.66])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BEIbW63311
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+From: "LaZaRuS Returns" <lazarus_z@hotmail.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:12:22 
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+Subject: [Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Greetings Vianney,
+
+Yea, the stlport include directory is at the top of the list. I downloaded 
+4.5 and compiled it and had no problems. So I guess it is 4.5.1
+
+Regards,
+   Jean-Lou
+
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
+http://www.hotmail.com
+
+
+From freddy.mercury@tin.it Mon Feb 11 16:18:12 2002
+Received: from fep50-svc.tin.it ([212.216.176.203])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BFICW63883
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:18:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from freddy.mercury@tin.it)
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+X-Originating-IP: [195.110.156.218]
+From: <freddy.mercury@tin.it>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Rif: [Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:12:27 CET
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+IF the problem with STLport is where to locate de header's directory, probably (if under Linux) it's that you don't have installed the part of Gcc with c++ tools...
+...mail me if you have renamed c++ in cpp o gcc in the makefile (freddy.mercury@tin.it)
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Mon Feb 11 16:24:55 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BFOpW64000
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+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
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+Message-ID: <001f01c1b310$3f76e650$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15457.55130.266746.803388@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:24:50 +0100
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Tank you for this patch.
+
+We have decided to use our own GL extension function declaration (eg: use
+NEL_PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC instead of PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC, and use
+nglMultiTexCoord1sARB() instead of glMultiTexCoord1sARB()) to avoid
+conflicts with differents version of gl.h  (I think GL extnesion is a mess
+here since extensions defined in gl.h do not define function typedef but
+still define GL_ARB_multitexture for example).
+
+
+Cheers
+
+Lionel
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Loic Dachary" <loic@gnu.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:24 AM
+Subject: [Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+
+
+>
+>
+> Hi,
+>
+> Following the advices of Vincent Caron I managed to get a snowballs
+> client that core dumps instead of barking because of a missing
+glSetFenceNV
+> symbol. During the process, I was trapped by something I could not figure
+out
+> and temporarily worked around by patching gl.h (Mesa-4.0.1). The
+> GL_ARB_multitexture block of gl.h does not contain the typedefs that
+> show in the glext.h (
+> typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+> ...
+> ). Since gl.h is included before glext.h, the typedefs are missing.
+> I hesitated to simply duplicate them in the nel sources. There must be
+> a solution to include them although I can't currently figure out how.
+>
+[.....]
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Mon Feb 11 18:05:29 2002
+Received: from relay-3v.club-internet.fr (relay-3v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.114])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BH5TW65364
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:05:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns07v-2-122.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.133.122])
+	by relay-3v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id E4E3B1690
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:59:22 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000801c1b31c$94abd570$7a85c2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:53:07 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1B324.F5FDA580"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] 3D software mode
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1B324.F5FDA580
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+is it possible to run Snowball demo and Nel without a 3D accelerated =
+card.=20
+I m not interested by 3D stuff graphics but by all others stuff=20
+IA , bots, world, network ...=20
+
+It s possible to install or make an opengl software driver ?=20
+
+thanks for all.=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1B324.F5FDA580
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is it possible to run Snowball demo and =
+Nel without=20
+a 3D accelerated card. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I m not interested by 3D stuff graphics =
+but by all=20
+others stuff </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>IA , bots, world, network ... =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It s possible to install or make an =
+opengl software=20
+driver ? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks for all. =
+</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1B324.F5FDA580--
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 11 18:55:50 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BHtoW65969
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:55:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16aKaC-0005KU-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:49:40 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15464.1075.729500.596339@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:49:39 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I managed to see the splash screen before it crashed while
+loading the landscape. I use
+http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs/snowballs-data-20011030.tar.gz,
+blindly assuming that nothing changed in the data format since then.
+Which is probably a big mistake ;-)
+
+	I'm using Mesa-3.4.2 & STL-4.0. 
+
+	Compilation of nel was done with :
+
+./configure  --with-stlport=/usr/local/src/STLport-4.0 --enable-sound --prefix=/spare3/nel --with-opengl=/spare3/nel --with-debug --disable-static --enable-maintainer-mode
+
+	Compilation of snowballs was done with :
+
+./configure  --with-stlport=/usr/local/src/STLport-4.0 --prefix=/spare3/nel --with-nel=/spare3/nel --with-debug --enable-maintainer-mode
+
+	On a Debian GNU/Linux unstable dist-upgrade'd late last week.
+
+	My graphical card is a Matrox Millenium II and, yes, I know snowballs
+is likely to be so slow that I won't be able to do anything with it. When I'll
+reach this point I'll consider buying another card.
+
+	Here is the corresponding GDB stack trace:
+
+Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+[Switching to Thread 1024 (LWP 2365)]
+0x0807eb21 in _STL::_Rb_global<bool>::_M_increment (__it=0xbffff74c)
+    at /usr/local/src/STLport-4.0/stlport/stl/_tree.c:295
+295       if (_M_node->_M_right != 0) {
+(gdb) bt
+#0  0x0807eb21 in _STL::_Rb_global<bool>::_M_increment (__it=0xbffff74c)
+    at /usr/local/src/STLport-4.0/stlport/stl/_tree.c:295
+#1  0x40dec4ac in _STL::_Rb_tree_iterator<_STL::pair<_STL::basic_string<char, _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const, NL3D::CMeshBase::CLightInfoMapList>, _STL::_Nonconst_traits<_STL::pair<_STL::basic_string<char, _STL::char_traits<char>,
+_STL::allocator<char> > const, NL3D::CMeshBase::CLightInfoMapList> > >::operator++ (
+    this=0xbffff74c) at /usr/local/src/STLport-4.0/stlport/stl/_tree.h:182
+#2  0x40cb9bfc in NL3D::CScene::createInstance (this=0x87115d8,
+    shapeName=@0xbffff84c) at scene.cpp:484
+#3  0x40cbc574 in NL3D::CInstanceGroup::addToScene (this=0x8e43564,
+    scene=@0x87115d8, driver=0x0) at scene_group.cpp:414
+#4  0x40c0fd5c in NL3D::CInstanceGroupUser::addToScene (this=0x8e43560,
+    scene=@0x87115d8, driver=0x0) at instance_group_user.cpp:145
+#5  0x40c0fd26 in NL3D::CInstanceGroupUser::addToScene (this=0x8e43560,
+    scene=@0x87115d0, driver=0x0) at instance_group_user.cpp:139
+#6  0x08070ed2 in initLandscape () at landscape.cpp:161
+#7  0x08063dd7 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffcd4) at client.cpp:194
+#8  0x419376cf in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6
+
+	_M_node is null, hence the core. 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 11 18:31:45 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BHVcW65687
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:31:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16aKCm-0005Jk-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:25:28 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="mGP+mmTAUq"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15463.65159.707403.911460@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:25:27 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Minor fixes (current CVS tree)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+--mGP+mmTAUq
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: message body text
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Here are a few type/scope fixes for the 3d directory. 
+
+
+--mGP+mmTAUq
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+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="2"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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+--mGP+mmTAUq
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: message body and .signature
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+--mGP+mmTAUq--
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Feb 11 19:19:43 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-3-mels.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BIJgW66304
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:19:42 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB688B6E7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:13:37 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15464.1075.729500.596339@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15464.1075.729500.596339@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 11 Feb 2002 19:13:35 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013451215.1854.60.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 18:49, Loic Dachary wrote:
+> 
+> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+> [Switching to Thread 1024 (LWP 2365)]
+> 0x0807eb21 in _STL::_Rb_global<bool>::_M_increment (__it=0xbffff74c)
+>     at /usr/local/src/STLport-4.0/stlport/stl/_tree.c:295
+> 295       if (_M_node->_M_right != 0) {
+> (gdb) bt
+> #0  0x0807eb21 in _STL::_Rb_global<bool>::_M_increment (__it=0xbffff74c)
+>     at /usr/local/src/STLport-4.0/stlport/stl/_tree.c:295
+> #1  0x40dec4ac in _STL::_Rb_tree_iterator<_STL::pair<_STL::basic_string<char, _STL::char_traits<char>, _STL::allocator<char> > const, NL3D::CMeshBase::CLightInfoMapList>, _STL::_Nonconst_traits<_STL::pair<_STL::basic_string<char, _STL::char_traits<char>,
+> _STL::allocator<char> > const, NL3D::CMeshBase::CLightInfoMapList> > >::operator++ (
+>     this=0xbffff74c) at /usr/local/src/STLport-4.0/stlport/stl/_tree.h:182
+> #2  0x40cb9bfc in NL3D::CScene::createInstance (this=0x87115d8,
+>     shapeName=@0xbffff84c) at scene.cpp:484
+> #3  0x40cbc574 in NL3D::CInstanceGroup::addToScene (this=0x8e43564,
+>     scene=@0x87115d8, driver=0x0) at scene_group.cpp:414
+> #4  0x40c0fd5c in NL3D::CInstanceGroupUser::addToScene (this=0x8e43560,
+>     scene=@0x87115d8, driver=0x0) at instance_group_user.cpp:145
+> #5  0x40c0fd26 in NL3D::CInstanceGroupUser::addToScene (this=0x8e43560,
+>     scene=@0x87115d0, driver=0x0) at instance_group_user.cpp:139
+> #6  0x08070ed2 in initLandscape () at landscape.cpp:161
+> #7  0x08063dd7 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffcd4) at client.cpp:194
+> #8  0x419376cf in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6
+> 
+> 	_M_node is null, hence the core. 
+
+You're running into a bug that was previously reported, but you're the
+first one to reach it with NeL compiled in debug mode (I didn't have
+enough HD space !). We run the demo by commenting the faulty line, but
+we never actually managed to find out the real bug in there ... It seems
+that this bug does not appear under Win32, so we're not sure if it's a
+STL bug or something more subtle. Sorry, no more info :)
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Feb 11 19:26:06 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-3-mels.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BIQ5W66402
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:26:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C4FB6E7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:20:01 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 3D software mode
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <000801c1b31c$94abd570$7a85c2d4@kissmaniac>
+References: <000801c1b31c$94abd570$7a85c2d4@kissmaniac>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 11 Feb 2002 19:19:58 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013451598.1854.67.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 17:53, neuser jean-philippe wrote:
+> is it possible to run Snowball demo and Nel without a 3D accelerated card. 
+> I m not interested by 3D stuff graphics but by all others stuff 
+> IA , bots, world, network ... 
+> 
+> It s possible to install or make an opengl software driver ? 
+
+Yes. Windows provide a (limited) default OpenGL driver which works in
+pure software mode, otherwise the Mesa3D (OpenGL clone with software
+rendering and 3DFX support) is available on any platform. Note that
+you'll get horrible framerates since Snowballs is texture and polygon
+greedy. You can setup the demo to be a bit nicer with polygon count
+(landscape tesselation params), and I guess you can hint Mesa3D to
+render only a fast subset of GL operations (such as a 'wireframe' mode,
+etc).
+
+Ground-level answer: you can start developping with NeL under Windows at
+once (you automatically have the vital minimum). Under Linux, install
+Mesa (use your distro packages). But if you manage to compile, expect a
+horrible running experience, if you have this experience at all :)
+
+
+
+From bebarker@meginc.com Mon Feb 11 19:46:40 2002
+Received: from sioux.meginc.com (Sioux.meginc.com [207.246.76.19])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BIkdW66610
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:46:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+Received: from there ([207.246.76.51])
+	by sioux.meginc.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA18914
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:39:22 -0500 (EST)
+	(envelope-from bebarker@meginc.com)
+Message-Id: <200202111839.NAA18914@sioux.meginc.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Brandon Barker <bebarker@meginc.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:35:49 -0500
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2]
+References: <200202111810.g1BIALW66183@www.nevrax.org>
+In-Reply-To: <200202111810.g1BIALW66183@www.nevrax.org>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] Maya4
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Is anyone using Maya 4.01 in Linux for Nevrax?  I'm new to Maya and 3D art in 
+general, but the application seems more than a little unstable.  I am using 
+Nvidia's newest drivers,   Alias|Wavefront's site seems to have been down for 
+at least 3 days now, so I haven't been able to get the update.  Any info will 
+be appreciated, and hopefully I'll be able to help Nevrax in someway someday 
+;).
+
+Brandon
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Feb 11 19:49:19 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-3-mels.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BInIW66646
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:49:18 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2563FB6E7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:43:14 +0100 (CET)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-CvnSggngBjf0B1OSDDAA"
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 11 Feb 2002 19:43:11 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013452991.1854.69.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Subject: [Nel] Also my 2 cents
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+--=-CvnSggngBjf0B1OSDDAA
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+To make gcc happy, it doesn't like signedness to be changed without an
+explicit cast ...
+
+
+--=-CvnSggngBjf0B1OSDDAA
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=getprocaddress.patch
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extensi=
+on.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.28
+diff -c -r1.28 driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+*** nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.cpp	7 Feb 2002 19:32:5=
+6 -0000	1.28
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.cpp	11 Feb 2002 18:48:=
+20 -0000
+***************
+*** 31,39 ****
+ =20
+  // **********************************************************************=
+*****
+  #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+! #define	nelglGetProcAddress wglGetProcAddress
+  #else	// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+! #define	nelglGetProcAddress glXGetProcAddressARB
+  #endif	// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ =20
+ =20
+--- 31,39 ----
+ =20
+  // **********************************************************************=
+*****
+  #ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
+! #define	nelglGetProcAddress(x) wglGetProcAddress(x)
+  #else	// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+! #define	nelglGetProcAddress(x) glXGetProcAddressARB((GLubyte*)(x))
+  #endif	// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ =20
+ =20
+
+--=-CvnSggngBjf0B1OSDDAA--
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 11 23:26:12 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BMQCW68727
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:26:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16aOno-0005Sd-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:20:00 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15464.17296.215134.54445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:20:00 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+In-Reply-To: Vincent Caron's message of 11 February 2002 19:13:35 +0100
+References: <15464.1075.729500.596339@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<1013451215.1854.60.camel@zerodeux.home>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+ > 
+ > You're running into a bug that was previously reported, but you're the
+ > first one to reach it with NeL compiled in debug mode (I didn't have
+ > enough HD space !). We run the demo by commenting the faulty line, but
+ > we never actually managed to find out the real bug in there ... It seems
+ > that this bug does not appear under Win32, so we're not sure if it's a
+ > STL bug or something more subtle. Sorry, no more info :)
+ > 
+
+	Intersting. Commenting out the 
+
+	++itLM 
+
+	that is in scene.cpp is an horrible hack ;-). When I do that
+it loops forever. I'm somewhat confused: you say that you run the demo
+by commenting the faulty line. Is it under GNU/Linux ? If not why did
+you have to comment the line if the bug does not show ? If yes how did
+you figure out which line to comment ?
+
+	I'd be interested to know what STL version you're using. From the
+recent posts on the list it appears that STL-4.5 would do the job. But 
+I'm using STL-4.0 as instructed by the README/INSTALL files.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Feb 11 23:48:06 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-3-mels.adsl.nerim.net [62.4.22.182])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BMm6W68939
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:48:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C53B6E7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:42:02 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15464.17296.215134.54445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15464.1075.729500.596339@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<1013451215.1854.60.camel@zerodeux.home> 
+	<15464.17296.215134.54445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Date: 11 Feb 2002 23:41:57 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013467317.1857.86.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Mon, 2002-02-11 at 23:20, Loic Dachary wrote:
+> 	Intersting. Commenting out the 
+> 
+> 	++itLM 
+> 
+> 	that is in scene.cpp is an horrible hack ;-)
+
+It is indeed !
+Ops, you're right, commenting out this line among others was a
+suggestion from Heath Johns (
+http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-November/000749.html ).
+November... I forgot where I got that cumbersome tip :). I guess he
+did not manage to search the pb in depth. And I forgot it.
+
+I'm using STLport 4.5.
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Tue Feb 12 11:04:09 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1CA49W86118
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:04:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16aZhG-0005wL-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:57:58 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15464.59174.152741.642712@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:57:57 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I wonder if the http://www.nevrax.org/docs/features_nel_3d.php3
+page is up to date. It does not contain a date, therefore I feel the need
+of bothering people ;-)
+
+	Here are a few typo fixes:
+
+s/dissable/disable/
+s/technicque/technique/
+s/ofobjects/of objects/
+s/insuffricient/insufficient/
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Tue Feb 12 11:45:20 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1CAjJW86540
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:45:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16aaL5-0005yB-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:39:07 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15464.61643.534173.906461@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:39:07 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Doxygen
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	It looks like the Doxygen documentation
+	(http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/hierarchy.html for instance)
+	is broken. Is it permanent or just a temporary failure ?
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 11 23:04:48 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1BM4bW68483
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:04:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16aOSx-0005Rs-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:58:27 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="gz0Wli4SD3"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15464.16003.314644.864677@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:58:27 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+In-Reply-To: Lionel Berenguier's message of 11 February 2002 16:24:50 +0100
+References: <15457.55130.266746.803388@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<001f01c1b310$3f76e650$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+--gz0Wli4SD3
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: message body text
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Lionel Berenguier writes:
+ > Tank you for this patch.
+ > 
+ > We have decided to use our own GL extension function declaration (eg: use
+ > NEL_PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC instead of PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC, and use
+ > nglMultiTexCoord1sARB() instead of glMultiTexCoord1sARB()) to avoid
+ > conflicts with differents version of gl.h  (I think GL extnesion is a mess
+ > here since extensions defined in gl.h do not define function typedef but
+ > still define GL_ARB_multitexture for example).
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I do agree that nglMultiTexCoord1sARB() instead of
+glMultiTexCoord1sARB() is a good idea. From a strictly technical point
+of view this is not really needed, but it's a trap in which we
+would fall over and over. Conflicts with the symbols existing in 
+the GL library during dynamic linking are tricky enough. However,
+I tend to think that renaming all the symbols is not necessary since
+we can rely on namespaces to do the job. Simply including the declaration
+and definitions in the NL3D namespace gives the same result as renaming
+without the trouble of actually changing all functions in the sources.
+
+	Regarding prototypes renaming, I'm not very enthusiastic. Name
+clashes are not the main concern. I prefered to add a small stanza in
+the acinclude.m4 to detect the problem and define a symbol that allows
+the sources to cope with it in a clean way. 
+
+	The patch below summarizes all the changes I've done on the 
+nel tree to get it to work (I mean up to the loading landscape segfault
+but no more compilation or linking troubles). I think it solves issues
+in a reasonable way.
+
+	Patch summary:
+
+	- Define AM_GL_VERIFY to cope with Mesa-3.4.2 & 4.0.1 lossage
+	  on multitexture declaration. Gave it a generic name so that
+	  we can add more tests if needs be.
+
+	  The following file should be added to the distribution:
+code/nel/acconfig.h
+
+--gz0Wli4SD3
+Content-Type: application/octet-stream
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="acconfig.h"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
+
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+--gz0Wli4SD3
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: message body text
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+	  I also nuked NEL_GL_VERSION_1_2_IN_GL_H since it was supposed
+	  to cope with the problem.
+	
+	- Removed spurious dots in various Makefile.am SUBDIRS declarations
+
+	- Re-generated code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am SOURCES and added
+	  noinst_HEADERS for headers. I never tried to make dist but
+	  I suspect there are other issues like this one that would
+	  prevent it to succeed.
+
+	- Fixed nel/src/3d/layered_ordering_table.cpp include and then
+	  figured it was not finished and therefore not used. Linking
+	  proved me right on this one.
+
+	- Fixed scope issues in nel/src/3d/. Typical case is
+	  for(int i;;) ; 
+	  i = 0;
+	  Using "i" must not be used after the loop, its scope is limited
+	  to the loop and it may contain an undefined value. Not all compilers
+	  bark on this error.
+
+	- nel/src/3d/static_quad_grid.h fixed an unqualified CMatrix
+
+	- Added a 
+
+#ifdef HAVE_CONFIG_H
+#include "nelconfig.h"
+#endif // HAVE_CONFIG_H
+
+	  to all .cpp files in nel/src/3d/driver/opengl. This is a must,
+	  otherwise we might as well drop autoheader and friends ;-)
+	  Although redundant it should not be added to headers. 
+	
+	- Reduced hairy includes. For no particular reason gl.h, glx.h
+	  glext.h were included in multiple places. Only the
+	  driver_opengl_extension.h includes were kept, other includes
+	  were removed.  The is not scrictly needed, I did it because
+	  I spent countless minutes figuring out where to look for
+	  actual inclusion and pulling my hairs when playing with them
+	  had no effect ;-)
+
+	- Defined nelglGetProcAddress as a cpp function in order to 
+	  add the necessary (const GLubyte *) cast for GNU/Linux.
+
+	- Include ARB symbols in NL3D namespace.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+
+--gz0Wli4SD3
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+--gz0Wli4SD3
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: .signature
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+--gz0Wli4SD3--
+
+From tharibo@free.fr Tue Feb 12 15:47:55 2002
+Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1CEltW88276
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:47:55 +0100 (CET)
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+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: "Nel ML" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Data Ownership
+Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:29:11 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3]
+References: <0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC9019100@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com> <1013102301.977.23.camel@zerodeux.home>
+In-Reply-To: <1013102301.977.23.camel@zerodeux.home>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+Le Jeudi 7 Février 2002 18:18, Vincent Caron a écrit :
+> Well, for the moment, if you don't
+> have discussion peers you at least have an audience :). I'll try to
+> react to your last mail, but it's not a promise :(
+
+Let's try to be one of these peers ;-)
+I have no experience in the subject and waited a long time before 
+achieving reading your mail. It's very ineresting to have such a 
+comparative between these two maners of managing data.
+
+I can only propose a third solution: what do you thing about a solution 
+which would take advatages of the ones you described? I am not good 
+enough to describe such a system by myself, but would it be possible? 
+For example, by separating data which needs advantages of symetric 
+balancing and data which needs advantages asymetric balancing... It 
+should add some complexity, but from my level, it seems that it 
+wouldn't be so hard...
+
+-- 
+tharibo@free.fr
+"Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+-- Georges Brassens
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Feb 13 00:13:52 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1CNDpW92543
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:13:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16am1T-0006QR-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:07:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15465.41019.280917.811607@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:07:39 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Thanks to GDB I was able to find a temporary solution. Now
+snowballs is running at an incredible 0.5fps rate. It's probably the
+first time I'm delighted to see such a slow opengl application ;-) Now
+I'll have to buy some RAM (GDB eats ~300Mb) and a decent graphical
+card with a Free Software driver.
+
+	I used the following workaround:
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/scene.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/scene.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.62
+diff -u -r1.62 scene.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/scene.cpp	6 Feb 2002 16:54:56 -0000	1.62
++++ nel/src/3d/scene.cpp	12 Feb 2002 22:53:55 -0000
+@@ -463,7 +463,7 @@
+ #endif
+ 
+ 	// Look if this instance get lightmap information
+-	CMeshBase *pMB = dynamic_cast<CMeshBase*>( (IShape*)(pTShp->Shape) );
++	CMeshBase *pMB = (CMeshBase*)((IShape*)(pTShp->Shape));
+ 	CMeshBaseInstance *pMBI = dynamic_cast<CMeshBaseInstance*>( pTShp );
+ 	if( ( pMB != NULL ) && ( pMBI != NULL ) )
+ 	{ // Try to bind to automatic animation
+
+	I managed to get snowballs to run on GNU/Linux. It turns out that
+dynamic_cast<CMeshBase*>((IShape*)(pTShp->Shape)) returns a pointer that is
+4 bytes below the expected pointer. Replacing the dynamic_cast with a C 
+style cast fixes the issue.
+
+	Unless I'm mistaken, there is no reason for dynamic_cast to
+return a pointer that is different from a C style cast (except if the
+cast is not legitimate). Hence I guess it's some sort of compiler
+bug. I'll try to re-compile with gcc-3 (currently using gcc-2.95.4) +
+isolate the problem. That one was pretty easy to spot because, we may
+run into much more tricky problem if it is not investigated properly.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com Wed Feb 13 01:28:52 2002
+Received: from mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com ([207.219.170.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1D0SpW93119
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:28:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com)
+content-class: urn:content-classes:message
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Data Ownership
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:22:39 -0500
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4712.0
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+X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
+Thread-Topic: [Nel] Data Ownership
+Thread-Index: AcGz8Y/CzRtgZtnuTNquCTaFpsBT+wAL6lzw
+From: "John Hayes" <john.hayes@embarcadero-ca.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+What kind of information do you think would be suitable for each type of
+server in the context of a game?
+
+I would consider the data to be classified as asymmetric (or possibly
+parallel?), synchronous, and static (data that does not change during
+the runtime).
+
+Asymmetric servers are most efficient when combined with optimistic
+locking (that shares the assumption that you read more than your write)
+- but the cost is requiring a transaction "replay" facility. A failure
+will at least double the processing time (practical is closer to 10x for
+a optimistic lock failure).
+
+There's actually a third locking scheme that's a variation on symmetric
+load balancing that I didn't cover. Instead of marshalling calls to
+objects on other servers - you marshal the object to calls on other
+servers. When a server requires use of an object it doesn't have, it
+retrieves it from the current owning server.
+
+So server A wants kick Monster #11 in the head - it marshals the entire
+object from server B and makes it's call. Server A now owns Monster #11
+and all subsequent calls are local.
+
+The assumptions that make this scheme efficient are:
+
+1. A user will access the same objects over and over or drift to new
+objects slowly.
+2. User's will access largely disjoint sets of objects - or, it's
+possible to arrange users so that they access the same shared objects.
+3. Users will read and write in approximately the same rate or write
+slightly more often - and usually write the objects they read.
+
+For these benefits, you accept that a small number of objects may thrash
+between servers  and will probably represent most of your internal
+network traffic. Sending an entire object may be large compared to a
+single call - but that's amortized over a larger number of calls.
+
+There's lots more detail to be covered in locking schemes.
+
+John
+
+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: Thomas RIBO [mailto:tharibo@free.fr]
+> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 9:29 AM
+> To: Nel ML
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] Data Ownership
+
+> Le Jeudi 7 Février 2002 18:18, Vincent Caron a écrit :
+> > Well, for the moment, if you don't
+> > have discussion peers you at least have an audience :). I'll try to
+> > react to your last mail, but it's not a promise :(
+
+> Let's try to be one of these peers ;-)
+> I have no experience in the subject and waited a long time before 
+> achieving reading your mail. It's very ineresting to have such a 
+> comparative between these two maners of managing data.
+
+> I can only propose a third solution: what do you thing about 
+> a solution 
+> which would take advatages of the ones you described? I am not good 
+> enough to describe such a system by myself, but would it be possible? 
+> For example, by separating data which needs advantages of symetric 
+> balancing and data which needs advantages asymetric balancing... It 
+> should add some complexity, but from my level, it seems that it 
+> wouldn't be so hard...
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 13 11:00:32 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1DA0SW97846
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:00:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1D9sGk51951
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+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15465.41019.280917.811607@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:54:16 +0100
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+
+Hi Loic,
+
+First of all, thank you for your help that is very useful for us.
+
+The problem about dynamic_cast seems to be a gcc bug (???) because the cast
+works fine on windows.
+dynamic_cast *can* return a pointer that is different from C style cast in
+the case a virtual multi inheritence.
+
+For the frame rate, snowballs is slow perhaps because you don't have a good
+video card (geforce or better) or because the driver is software.
+Anyway, you have to know that there s visual bug that we never fix on linux.
+For example, the NeL 3d logo that should be small in the top left of the
+screen is very big in the center of the screen on linus (perhaps a Viewport
+problem).
+
+For gcc-3, we tried, quickly,  a compilation but there are some error about
+throw() qualifier and cast problem. If you fix them, we ll be glad to add
+them :)
+
+Regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From valignat@gw.nevrax.com Tue Feb 12 16:27:03 2002
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+Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:20:14 +0100
+From: Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: NeL mailing list <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <20020212162014.A8783@nevrax.com>
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+
+Unsubcribed.
+
+
+-- 
+Cedric
+
+    Frappe ta tête contre une cruche. Si tu obtiens un son creux,
+    n'en déduis pas que c'est forcément la cruche qui est vide.
+
+                                                       Lao Tseu.
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Feb 13 15:59:03 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
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+Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:52:48 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+In-Reply-To: Vianney Lecroart's message of 13 February 2002 10:54:16 +0100
+References: <15465.41019.280917.811607@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<000f01c1b474$66023030$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ > Hi Loic,
+ > 
+ > First of all, thank you for your help that is very useful for us.
+
+	Your code is also very helpful to me ;-)
+
+ > The problem about dynamic_cast seems to be a gcc bug (???) because the cast
+ > works fine on windows.
+
+	I think this definitely is a gcc bug. I acknowledged this
+by doing the following:
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/scene.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/scene.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.62
+diff -u -r1.62 scene.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/scene.cpp	6 Feb 2002 16:54:56 -0000	1.62
++++ nel/src/3d/scene.cpp	13 Feb 2002 14:39:00 -0000
+@@ -463,7 +463,11 @@
+ #endif
+ 
+ 	// Look if this instance get lightmap information
+-	CMeshBase *pMB = dynamic_cast<CMeshBase*>( (IShape*)(pTShp->Shape) );
++#if defined(__GNUC__) && __GNUC__ < 3
++	CMeshBase *pMB = (CMeshBase*)((IShape*)(pTShp->Shape));
++#else // not GNUC
++	CMeshBase *pMB = dynamic_cast<CMeshBase*>((IShape*)(pTShp->Shape));
++#endif // not GNUC
+ 	CMeshBaseInstance *pMBI = dynamic_cast<CMeshBaseInstance*>( pTShp );
+ 	if( ( pMB != NULL ) && ( pMBI != NULL ) )
+ 	{ // Try to bind to automatic animation
+
+	I intentionaly made this hack specific to gcc-2 so that it 
+blows again on gcc-3 when we eventually switch to it and if the bug
+is still there. For now I guess we'll have to live with it.  
+
+ > dynamic_cast *can* return a pointer that is different from C style cast in
+ > the case a virtual multi inheritence.
+
+	Yes, forgot this one. But in this very specific case, there is no
+reason for it to return a different pointer. 
+
+ > For the frame rate, snowballs is slow perhaps because you don't have a good
+ > video card (geforce or better) or because the driver is software.
+
+	Oh, you mean my Matrox G200 is not as powerfull as a geforce
+?-) I'm kidding. The issue here is to find a card that runs on
+GNU/Linux and has a Free Software driver. All nVidia based products
+are discarded right away, thanks to their !@#$!#@$ non free software
+policy. The worst of all is that they provide a gratis driver that
+runs on GNU/Linux, therefore nobody is apparently motivated to write a
+Free Software alternative.
+
+	I figured that an ATI RADEON 7500 / 64 Mo is probably the best
+I can get. I'll have to recompile XFree-4.2.0 to take advantage of the
+accelerated drivers, though. But not too far in the future it will pop
+automagically on my Debian unstable, therefore it's acceptable. From the
+benchmarks I saw, it more or less compares to a geforce 2 but is vastly
+outperformed by geforce 3. Any input/experience on this subject would be
+welcome.
+
+	Who is pressuring nVidia to release their drivers under a Free
+Software license ? I'd gladly add my 0.2 euro advocacy bit ;-)
+
+ > Anyway, you have to know that there s visual bug that we never fix on linux.
+ > For example, the NeL 3d logo that should be small in the top left of the
+ > screen is very big in the center of the screen on linus (perhaps a Viewport
+ > problem).
+
+	Good to know. I was wondering why this huge logo would not go away
+after a while. I'll first try to improve the frame rate as much as I can.
+
+ > For gcc-3, we tried, quickly,  a compilation but there are some error about
+ > throw() qualifier and cast problem. If you fix them, we ll be glad to add
+ > them :)
+
+	I fixed the minor errors missing throw() in destructors but
+finaly ran into a more embarassing problem (gcc aborting on
+error). I'm probably playing with fire (using gcc-3.0.4
+snapshot). Anyways, I guess it's too early for this and won't
+insist. Here are the fixes. One of them is important since there is a
+scope mismatch (uint i below).
+
+Index: nel/include/nel/misc/common.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/include/nel/misc/common.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.33
+diff -u -r1.33 common.h
+--- nel/include/nel/misc/common.h	25 Oct 2001 14:58:23 -0000	1.33
++++ nel/include/nel/misc/common.h	13 Feb 2002 14:38:49 -0000
+@@ -239,6 +239,7 @@
+ 	Exception();
+ 	Exception(const std::string &reason);
+ 	Exception(const char *format, ...);
++	virtual ~Exception() throw() {};
+ 	virtual const char	*what() const throw();
+ };
+ 
+Index: nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.50
+diff -u -r1.50 stream.h
+--- nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h	27 Nov 2001 15:59:55 -0000	1.50
++++ nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h	13 Feb 2002 14:38:49 -0000
+@@ -77,6 +77,8 @@
+ 
+ 	EStream( const IStream &f, const std::string& str );
+ 
++	virtual ~EStream() throw() {}
++
+ 	// May Not be Filled...
+ 	std::string	StreamName;
+ };
+Index: nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.5
+diff -u -r1.5 buf_net_base.h
+--- nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h	21 Jun 2001 12:35:16 -0000	1.5
++++ nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h	13 Feb 2002 14:38:49 -0000
+@@ -135,7 +135,7 @@
+ 
+ protected:
+ 
+-	friend CBufSock;
++	friend class NLNET::CBufSock;
+ 	
+ 	/// Constructor
+ 	CBufNetBase();
+Index: nel/src/3d/cube_grid.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/cube_grid.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 cube_grid.h
+--- nel/src/3d/cube_grid.h	6 Feb 2002 16:54:56 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/cube_grid.h	13 Feb 2002 14:38:54 -0000
+@@ -244,8 +244,8 @@
+ 
+ 	// Clear the Selection
+ 	_Selection= NULL;
+-	_CurSel= NULL;
+-	_NumSels= NULL;
++	_CurSel= 0;
++	_NumSels= 0;
+ }
+ 
+ // ***************************************************************************
+Index: nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 cube_map_builder.h
+--- nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h	4 Feb 2002 10:42:31 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h	13 Feb 2002 14:38:54 -0000
+@@ -57,4 +57,4 @@
+ }
+ 
+ 
+-#endif
+\ No newline at end of file
++#endif
+Index: nel/src/3d/landscape.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.31
+diff -u -r1.31 landscape.h
+--- nel/src/3d/landscape.h	6 Feb 2002 16:54:56 -0000	1.31
++++ nel/src/3d/landscape.h	13 Feb 2002 14:38:54 -0000
+@@ -104,6 +104,7 @@
+ 
+ public:
+ 	EBadBind() {}
++	~EBadBind() throw () {}
+ 	virtual const char	*what() const throw();
+ 
+ };
+Index: nel/src/3d/point_light_named_array.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/point_light_named_array.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 point_light_named_array.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/point_light_named_array.cpp	6 Feb 2002 16:54:56 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/point_light_named_array.cpp	13 Feb 2002 14:38:58 -0000
+@@ -96,7 +96,8 @@
+ 		bool	first= true;
+ 		string	precName;
+ 		// for all sorted pointLights
+-		for(uint i=0;i<_PointLights.size();i++)
++		uint i;
++		for(i=0;i<_PointLights.size();i++)
+ 		{
+ 			const	std::string &curName= _PointLights[i].LightGroupName;
+ 			if(first || precName!=curName )
+Index: nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 ps_misc.h
+--- nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h	2 Oct 2001 16:35:39 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h	13 Feb 2002 14:38:58 -0000
+@@ -82,4 +82,4 @@
+ 
+ } // NL3D
+ 
+-#endif
+\ No newline at end of file
++#endif
+
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From tharibo@free.fr Wed Feb 13 19:04:12 2002
+Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1DI4CW01763
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:04:12 +0100 (CET)
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+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: "Nel ML" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:58:09 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3]
+References: <15465.41019.280917.811607@inspiron.dachary.org> <000f01c1b474$66023030$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <15466.32193.221388.631421@inspiron.dachary.org>
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+
+Le Mercredi 13 Février 2002 15:52, Loic Dachary a écrit :
+> 	Oh, you mean my Matrox G200 is not as powerfull as a geforce
+> ?-) I'm kidding. The issue here is to find a card that runs on
+> GNU/Linux and has a Free Software driver. All nVidia based products
+> are discarded right away, thanks to their !@#$!#@$ non free software
+> policy. The worst of all is that they provide a gratis driver that
+> runs on GNU/Linux, therefore nobody is apparently motivated to write
+> a Free Software alternative.
+
+Yes, but it is the only way for the moment to have a good video card 
+and good drivers running on Linux. I would prefer free drivers too, but 
+I use the non-free ones and am not too embarrassed with that...
+
+> 	I figured that an ATI RADEON 7500 / 64 Mo is probably the best
+> I can get. I'll have to recompile XFree-4.2.0 to take advantage of
+> the accelerated drivers, though. But not too far in the future it
+> will pop automagically on my Debian unstable, therefore it's
+> acceptable. From the benchmarks I saw, it more or less compares to a
+> geforce 2 but is vastly outperformed by geforce 3. Any
+> input/experience on this subject would be welcome.
+
+To compare with a GeForce 3, you'll need a Radeon 8500. But I have no 
+idea of the support on Linux (I'm talking about free drivers). BTW, 
+it's a chance that ATI does not provide drivers on Linux: when we see 
+the quality of the Windows ones, we can only be happy about that ;-)!
+
+>
+> 	Who is pressuring nVidia to release their drivers under a Free
+> Software license ? I'd gladly add my 0.2 euro advocacy bit ;-)
+
+It seemed to me that a petition was somewhere on Internet, but I can't 
+find it... There are some discutions about that on Debian lists 
+archives, but that's all... :-(
+
+-- 
+tharibo@free.fr
+"Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+-- Georges Brassens
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Wed Feb 13 20:43:35 2002
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+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:29:22 +0100
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+Subject: [Nel] 3D software mode again
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
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+
+Bonjour =E0 tous=20
+il me semble que l'=E9quipe de Nevrax est fran=E7aise non ?=20
+Alors pourquoi m'embeter =E0 =E9crire en un mauvais anglais.
+
+Dans le doute j'ecris ma question en anglais ...=20
+
+
+I need a littler bit more information about how to play snowball demo in =
+3D software mode.
+
+Snowball use opengl 1.2 extension so , i need an opengl driver delivered =
+by the manufacturer of my 3D card. But i dont have a 3D card so i m not =
+able to have this driver.
+I would like to know where can i download a complete Opengl software =
+driver which  support 1.2 extension.
+I have read that Microsoft have to build when but i m not able to find =
+it.
+
+
+
+thanks to all.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1B4CD.1F96DAC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bonjour =E0 tous </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>il me semble que l'=E9quipe de Nevrax =
+est fran=E7aise=20
+non ? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Alors pourquoi m'embeter =E0 =E9crire =
+en un mauvais=20
+anglais.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dans le doute j'ecris ma question en =
+anglais ...=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I need a littler bit more information =
+about how to=20
+play snowball demo in 3D software mode.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Snowball use opengl 1.2 extension so , =
+i need an=20
+opengl driver delivered by the manufacturer of my 3D card. But i dont =
+have a 3D=20
+card so i m not able to have this driver.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would like to know where can i =
+download a=20
+complete Opengl software driver which&nbsp; support 1.2 =
+extension.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have read that Microsoft have to =
+build when but i=20
+m not able to find it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks to =
+all.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1B4CD.1F96DAC0--
+
+
+From vardamir@earthlink.net Thu Feb 14 03:08:43 2002
+Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1E28gW05988
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 03:08:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vardamir@earthlink.net)
+Received: from 1cust26.tnt1.winchester.ky.da.uu.net ([67.213.169.26] helo=there)
+	by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
+	id 16bBEH-0001Dl-00
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:02:33 -0800
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-15"
+From: Brandon Barker <vardamir@earthlink.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:57:25 -0500
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2]
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Message-Id: <E16bBEH-0001Dl-00@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
+Subject: [Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Can anyone point me to some tutorials or good documentation on writing 
+Maya(4) Plugins?  I'm going to be porting a windows/maya Plugin to Linux/maya 
+in a few days.  Unfortunately, I don't know if the author will allow the 
+plugin to be open source, though, after I do get the porting done I will 
+certainly discuss it with him.  Nevertheless, this plugin allows you to 
+export Models as md3 files used in Quake3 - while not directly related to 
+NeL, it would certainly be nice to have available in Linux, and a good way to 
+test models with the tried and true Q3 Engine.
+
+Brandon Barker
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb 14 11:58:09 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1EAw8W27523
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:58:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16bJUY-0008S9-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:51:54 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15467.38601.621359.111246@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:51:53 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+In-Reply-To: Thomas RIBO's message of 13 February 2002 18:58:09 +0100
+References: <15465.41019.280917.811607@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<000f01c1b474$66023030$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+	<15466.32193.221388.631421@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<20020213175805.E64201806B@postfix3-2.free.fr>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Thomas RIBO writes:
+ > 
+ > To compare with a GeForce 3, you'll need a Radeon 8500. But I have no 
+ > idea of the support on Linux (I'm talking about free drivers). BTW, 
+ > it's a chance that ATI does not provide drivers on Linux: when we see 
+ > the quality of the Windows ones, we can only be happy about that ;-)!
+ > 
+
+	:-) No 3D support for the Radeon 8500 at present, unfortunately.
+
+ > It seemed to me that a petition was somewhere on Internet, but I can't 
+ > find it... There are some discutions about that on Debian lists 
+ > archives, but that's all... :-(
+
+	Which very well shows the bad consequences of providing proprietary
+solutions on GNU/Linux. I found http://nvidia.netexplorer.org/petition.html
+which is not the right way to go, IMHO.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Feb 14 15:04:48 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-16-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1EE4mW38086
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:04:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 778A7B6E7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:58:43 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 3D software mode again
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <000801c1b4c4$c5e2cf50$d33dc2d4@kissmaniac>
+References: <000801c1b4c4$c5e2cf50$d33dc2d4@kissmaniac>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 14 Feb 2002 14:58:40 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013695121.855.2.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g1EE4mW38086
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 20:29, neuser jean-philippe wrote:
+> Bonjour à tous 
+> il me semble que l'équipe de Nevrax est française non ? 
+> Alors pourquoi m'embeter à écrire en un mauvais anglais.
+
+Because there are other users on this ML, not necessarily french ...
+
+> I need a littler bit more information about how to play snowball demo in 3D software mode.
+> 
+> Snowball use opengl 1.2 extension so , i need an opengl driver delivered by the manufacturer of my 3D card. But i dont have a 3D card so i m not able to have this driver.
+> I would like to know where can i download a complete Opengl software driver which  support 1.2 extension.
+> I have read that Microsoft have to build when but i m not able to find it.
+
+Mesa has been 1.3 compatible (not officially 'compliant' but it's close)
+for a while, namely the 4.0 release of 2001/10/22 :
+http://www.mesa3d.org (or better, use your distro packages)
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Feb 14 15:07:31 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-16-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1EE7UW38238
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:07:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92E1B6E7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:01:25 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <E16bBEH-0001Dl-00@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
+References: <E16bBEH-0001Dl-00@goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 14 Feb 2002 15:01:23 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013695283.855.6.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 02:57, Brandon Barker wrote:
+> Can anyone point me to some tutorials or good documentation on writing 
+> Maya(4) Plugins?
+
+Rather off-topic here since NeL rely on Max plugins & tools :)
+The answer is 'RTFM', the Maya SDK has a great doc and a bunch of
+examples which compile straight under Windows (via Visual) or under
+Linux (via Makefiles). They even provide a portable UI toolkit.
+
+
+
+From traffic@linkpassport.com Thu Feb 14 15:54:24 2002
+Received: from max (adsl-64-172-181-32.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.172.181.32])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1EEsMW41150
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:54:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from traffic@linkpassport.com)
+Received: from [172.16.1.33] by max
+  (ArGoSoft Mail Server Plus, Version 1.80 (1.8.0.0)); Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:52:25 -0800
+From: traffic@linkpassport.com
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: 14 Feb 2002 06:52:23 -0800
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_s8W0bpD2_0JU5Gmgg_MA"
+Message-ID: <00ir6siu5xj78oo.140220020652@max>
+Subject: [Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+------=_s8W0bpD2_0JU5Gmgg_MA
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+
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+------=_s8W0bpD2_0JU5Gmgg_MA--
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Thu Feb 14 17:20:05 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-16-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1EGK4W46598
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:20:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69259B73C
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:14:00 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux ... (nVidia stuff)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15466.32193.221388.631421@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15465.41019.280917.811607@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<000f01c1b474$66023030$0901a8c0@vianneyl> 
+	<15466.32193.221388.631421@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 14 Feb 2002 17:13:56 +0100
+Message-Id: <1013703236.969.70.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 15:52, Loic Dachary wrote:
+> 	Who is pressuring nVidia to release their drivers under a Free
+> Software license ? I'd gladly add my 0.2 euro advocacy bit ;-)
+
+Not quite, but I'm tring to encourage them on this path ... Since nVidia
+has based its market on consumer-grade 3D hardware, the Windows+DirectX
+patform provides close to 95% of their income. The 'professional' users
+are not willing to purchase a new video card every month like gamers ;),
+so the Quadro serie seems only a way to tickle 3DLabs. It is a common
+belief that the key element which lead nVidia to bring OpenGL support is
+more ID's John Carmack than industry needs such as CAD tools. I think it
+also reasonable to think that they don't want to be MS-dependent, and
+their comitment with both OpenGL and Linux is the best and cheapest way
+to keep the evil at a safe distance :). Maybe they also think that
+tackling their chipsets with two approaches and two APIs might bring a
+better driver/hardware development expertise (let's be idealistic, but
+it could prove true since everybody agrees that OpenGL shaders are
+better designed than DX8's ... ghossip, etc :)).
+
+I'm currently thanking them for their Linux support. Their driver
+developers are rather easy to reach, bug reports are quickly answered,
+and they honestly try to keep up with Windows drivers performance and
+quality. They also take into account the fact that Linux users tend to
+have a more technical background : their Linux FAQ is the kind of
+thorough and efficient documentation you'll never find under Windows
+(giving away all the hacks to tweak the driver :
+http://205.158.109.140/XFree86_40/1.0-2313/README.txt)
+
+They currently focus on driver setup support, their main goal being
+letting any user play Quake3 with the best experience under Linux.
+I think that the next task is to bring some animation around OpenGL
+development under Linux. They have an important code base to show off
+all their OpenGL driver abilities, but it's a heavily win32 oriented
+code (you'll find spare Makefiles...). They recently setup a CVS as a
+distribution alternative (Unix users don't really like tarballs !). I'm
+maybe optimistic, but I like this kind of initiative :). The definitive
+step further would be to port their 'Effect browser' (the core of their
+OpenGL code base) to Linux, and I'm seriously thinking about doing it.
+The goal is twofold : 1) showing them people want to develop with their
+hardware under Linux & FreeBSD, 2) make their 'nvsdk' available to the
+Unix community.
+
+Before thinking about coding, they are some licensing issues that need
+to be addressed. Of course, from an advocate point of view, this nvsdk
+should be GPL. But I guess developers are encouraged to steal bits from
+it, so a MIT/Xfree license might be more accurate. This is where a OSS
+adocate expertise could be useful ...
+
+I'm keeping some URLs up to date there :
+http://linux-nvidia.sourceforge.net/
+
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Thu Feb 14 17:49:18 2002
+Received: from digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g1EGnHW48470
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:49:17 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 14726 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2002 17:24:20 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 14 Feb 2002 17:24:20 -0000
+Message-ID: <06f101c1b576$a8c75a50$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:42:58 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_06EE_01C1B57F.0A7AD260"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Spam
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_06EE_01C1B57F.0A7AD260
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+It would be nice if the mailing list administrator could turn on the =
+feature that allows posting only to subscribed e-mail addresses if it =
+isn't already setted this way. Thanks.=20
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_06EE_01C1B57F.0A7AD260
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It would be nice if the mailing list =
+administrator=20
+could turn on the feature that allows posting only to subscribed e-mail=20
+addresses if it isn't already setted this way. Thanks. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(<A href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)<BR></FO=
+NT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_06EE_01C1B57F.0A7AD260--
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Thu Feb 14 19:33:34 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1EIXXW55587
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:33:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1EIRQk68162
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:27:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Spam
+Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:27:26 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFKELBCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1B58D.A26A5BA0"
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <06f101c1b576$a8c75a50$024510ac@valerio>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1B58D.A26A5BA0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+We tried this before once and it broke our mailing list software so we left
+it as is.
+We'll take another look and see what we can do but I'm affraid we can't make
+any promises.
+
+
+  -----Original Message-----
+  From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Valerio Santinelli
+  Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:43 PM
+  To: nel@nevrax.org
+  Subject: [Nel] Spam
+
+
+  It would be nice if the mailing list administrator could turn on the
+feature that allows posting only to subscribed e-mail addresses if it isn't
+already setted this way. Thanks.
+
+  --
+  Valerio Santinelli
+  HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+  In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+  My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1B58D.A26A5BA0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><SPAN class=3D772052618-14022002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
+size=3D2>We=20
+tried this before once and it broke our mailing list software so we left =
+it as=20
+is.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV><SPAN class=3D772052618-14022002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
+size=3D2>We'll=20
+take another look and see what we can do but I'm affraid we can't make =
+any=20
+promises.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV><SPAN class=3D772052618-14022002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
+
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><SPAN class=3D772052618-14022002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
+face=3DTahoma=20
+  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
+nel-admin@nevrax.org=20
+  [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Valerio=20
+  Santinelli<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 14, 2002 5:43 =
+PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
+  nel@nevrax.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Spam<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It would be nice if the mailing list=20
+  administrator could turn on the feature that allows posting only to =
+subscribed=20
+  e-mail addresses if it isn't already setted this way. Thanks. =
+</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+  (<A =
+href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+  Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+  href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+  =
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)<BR></FO=
+NT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C1B58D.A26A5BA0--
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Feb 14 21:02:27 2002
+Received: from mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-6.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1EK2RW61721
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:02:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.193) by mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr; 14 Feb 2002 20:56:11 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.184.179) by mel-rta10.wanadoo.fr; 14 Feb 2002 20:56:03 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16bRz9-0000CH-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:56:03 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 3D software mode again
+References: <000801c1b4c4$c5e2cf50$d33dc2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 14 Feb 2002 20:56:02 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <000801c1b4c4$c5e2cf50$d33dc2d4@kissmaniac>
+Message-ID: <87bseru9bh.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 21
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g1EK2RW61721
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+"neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr> writes:
+
+> Alors pourquoi m'embeter à écrire en un mauvais anglais.
+
+Because english speaking people are also reading this list.
+
+> Snowball use opengl 1.2 extension so , i need an opengl driver
+> delivered by the manufacturer of my 3D card. But i dont have a 3D card
+> so i m not able to have this driver.  I would like to know where can i
+> download a complete Opengl software driver which support 1.2
+> extension.
+
+Have a look at Mesa : http://www.mesa3d.org/
+
+But it should be provided with your Linux distribution. You are under
+linux don't you ?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Fri Feb 15 06:24:15 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1F5OEW02158
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:24:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [213.167.146.97] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:17:56 Z
+Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:45:28 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <134120697333.20020215054528@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g1F5OEW02158
+Subject: [Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+After doing my Landscape building process with
+the latest NeL I get this error:
+
+AST zone.cpp 195 : "pi.TileLightInfluences.size()==
+(uint)(pi.OrderS/2+1)*(pi.OrderT/2+1)"
+
+The zones I'm trying to weld worked fine before...
+before the "Dynamic/Static lighting system" change.
+
+My zones are 160x160 max units and divided into 4 by 4
+segments before I NelConverted them... Maybe this is the
+problem?  Maybe I should use a higher number of segments
+like 5x5?
+
+What does this error mean?
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Fri Feb 15 11:16:28 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1FAGRW10476
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:16:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from lionelb (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1FAAJk71852
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:10:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001301c1b609$d7d86ad0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <134120697333.20020215054528@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:16:33 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+It means it is a bug. Sorry :)
+
+It is fixed and you'll get it at next cvs synchro.
+
+Cheers.
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 2:45 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+
+
+> Hi,
+> 
+> After doing my Landscape building process with
+> the latest NeL I get this error:
+> 
+> AST zone.cpp 195 : "pi.TileLightInfluences.size()==
+> (uint)(pi.OrderS/2+1)*(pi.OrderT/2+1)"
+> 
+> The zones I'm trying to weld worked fine before...
+> before the "Dynamic/Static lighting system" change.
+> 
+> My zones are 160x160 max units and divided into 4 by 4
+> segments before I NelConverted them... Maybe this is the
+> problem?  Maybe I should use a higher number of segments
+> like 5x5?
+> 
+> What does this error mean?
+> 
+> Warm regards,
+> Robert Bjarnason
+> InOrbit Entertainment
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Feb 15 16:35:36 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1FFZZW34841
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:35:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1FFTSk75352
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:29:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007401c1b635$8e11d5e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <134120697333.20020215054528@in-orbit.net> <001301c1b609$d7d86ad0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:29:27 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] itsalive and TransportClass
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi all,
+
+itsalive is alive!!!! Snowballs server is back online so you can connect to
+it with snowballs client (you can find an *unofficial* windows compiled
+version on my webpage (look my signature)).
+
+CTransportClass is added on the net lib that enable communcation of class
+between services easily and handle different class version (one service can
+have a old class and another a new one and communicate them with no
+problem). Take a look at nel/samples/class_transport and/or the
+transport_class.h.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Sun Feb 17 15:44:37 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1HEiZW28237
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:44:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16cSSH-00022t-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:38:17 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15471.49241.106895.728972@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:38:17 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I'd be grateful if you could apply the patch below. It was
+generated with today's CVS. Nel + snowballs compile + run with
+this patch. Here is a short description:
+
+	- AM_GL_VERIFY autoconf macro (not used but necessary to turn
+	  the current hackish workaround into a proper fix)
+
+	- virtual destructors with throw() (gcc-3)
+
+	- friend declaration 
+
+	- Makefile inconsistency 
+
+	- Missing newline at end of file
+
+	- dynamic_cast workaround for gcc
+
+	- Spurious dots in Makefile.am SUBDIRS
+
+	- noop inlines that prevent proper compilation when in
+	  --with-debug mode
+
+	- uncommented string after endif
+
+	- proper stl lib inclusion when --with-debug=full
+
+	- missing parenthesis at end of 'if' expr
+
+	Thanks in advance,
+
+Index: nel/acinclude.m4
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/acinclude.m4,v
+retrieving revision 1.7
+diff -u -r1.7 acinclude.m4
+--- nel/acinclude.m4	29 Jan 2002 13:21:42 -0000	1.7
++++ nel/acinclude.m4	17 Feb 2002 13:02:19 -0000
+@@ -45,6 +45,14 @@
+ dnl    Description: check the instalation of the OpenGL library and set the
+ dnl                 OPENGL_CFLAGS and OPENGL_LIBS variables to use it.
+ dnl
++dnl AM_GL_VERIFY
++dnl
++dnl    Description: checks OpenGL headers and libraries consistency.
++dnl                 Define NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS
++dnl		      if GL_ARB_multitexture is defined in gl.h but is missing
++dnl		      functions typedefs. This happens, for instance, with 
++dnl                   Mesa-3.4.2 & Mesa-4.0.1.
++dnl
+ dnl
+ dnl AM_PATH_FREETYPE
+ dnl
+@@ -605,6 +613,32 @@
+ AC_SUBST(OPENGL_CFLAGS)
+ AC_SUBST(OPENGL_LIBS)
+ 
++])
++
++AC_DEFUN(AM_GL_VERIFY,
++[ 
++_CPPFLAGS="$CPPFLAGS"
++
++CPPFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS $OPENGL_CFLAGS"
++
++AC_MSG_CHECKING([for GL_ARB_multitexture in gl.h])
++AC_EGREP_CPP(glActiveTextureARB,
++[#define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
++#include <GL/gl.h>],
++[
++  AC_EGREP_CPP(PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC,
++  [#include <GL/gl.h>],
++  [AC_MSG_RESULT([found and typedefs defined])],
++  [
++    AC_MSG_RESULT([found and missing typdefs, define NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS])
++    AC_DEFINE(NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS)
++  ])
++],
++[
++  AC_MSG_RESULT([not found, this is ok])
++])
++
++CPPFLAGS="$_CPPFLAGS"
+ ])
+ 
+ 
+Index: nel/configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.59
+diff -u -r1.59 configure.in
+--- nel/configure.in	28 Jan 2002 15:22:19 -0000	1.59
++++ nel/configure.in	17 Feb 2002 13:02:19 -0000
+@@ -247,7 +247,7 @@
+ dnl OpenGL
+ 
+ AM_PATH_OPENGL($enable_3d)
+-
++AM_GL_VERIFY
+ 
+ dnl ====================================================================
+ dnl Check for XF86VidMode extension (-lXxf86vm)
+Index: nel/include/nel/misc/common.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/include/nel/misc/common.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.34
+diff -u -r1.34 common.h
+--- nel/include/nel/misc/common.h	12 Feb 2002 13:56:16 -0000	1.34
++++ nel/include/nel/misc/common.h	17 Feb 2002 13:02:22 -0000
+@@ -240,6 +240,7 @@
+ 	Exception();
+ 	Exception(const std::string &reason);
+ 	Exception(const char *format, ...);
++	virtual ~Exception() throw() {};
+ 	virtual const char	*what() const throw();
+ };
+ 
+Index: nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.50
+diff -u -r1.50 stream.h
+--- nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h	27 Nov 2001 15:59:55 -0000	1.50
++++ nel/include/nel/misc/stream.h	17 Feb 2002 13:02:22 -0000
+@@ -77,6 +77,8 @@
+ 
+ 	EStream( const IStream &f, const std::string& str );
+ 
++	virtual ~EStream() throw() {}
++
+ 	// May Not be Filled...
+ 	std::string	StreamName;
+ };
+Index: nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.5
+diff -u -r1.5 buf_net_base.h
+--- nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h	21 Jun 2001 12:35:16 -0000	1.5
++++ nel/include/nel/net/buf_net_base.h	17 Feb 2002 13:02:22 -0000
+@@ -135,7 +135,7 @@
+ 
+ protected:
+ 
+-	friend CBufSock;
++	friend class NLNET::CBufSock;
+ 	
+ 	/// Constructor
+ 	CBufNetBase();
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.67
+diff -u -r1.67 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	15 Feb 2002 17:37:54 -0000	1.67
++++ nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	17 Feb 2002 13:02:25 -0000
+@@ -460,10 +460,7 @@
+                        visual_collision_manager_user.h                 \
+                        water_height_map.cpp                            \
+                        water_height_map.h                              \
+-                       water_imp.cpp                                   \
+                        water_model.cpp                                 \
+-                       water_model.cpp (essai)                         \
+-                       water_model.cpp(old)                            \
+                        water_model.h                                   \
+                        water_pool_manager.cpp                          \
+                        water_pool_manager.h                            \
+Index: nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 cube_map_builder.h
+--- nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h	4 Feb 2002 10:42:31 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/cube_map_builder.h	17 Feb 2002 13:02:25 -0000
+@@ -57,4 +57,4 @@
+ }
+ 
+ 
+-#endif
+\ No newline at end of file
++#endif
+Index: nel/src/3d/landscape.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.31
+diff -u -r1.31 landscape.h
+--- nel/src/3d/landscape.h	6 Feb 2002 16:54:56 -0000	1.31
++++ nel/src/3d/landscape.h	17 Feb 2002 13:02:25 -0000
+@@ -104,6 +104,7 @@
+ 
+ public:
+ 	EBadBind() {}
++	~EBadBind() throw () {}
+ 	virtual const char	*what() const throw();
+ 
+ };
+Index: nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 ps_misc.h
+--- nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h	2 Oct 2001 16:35:39 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/ps_misc.h	17 Feb 2002 13:02:25 -0000
+@@ -82,4 +82,4 @@
+ 
+ } // NL3D
+ 
+-#endif
+\ No newline at end of file
++#endif
+Index: nel/src/3d/scene.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/scene.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.62
+diff -u -r1.62 scene.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/scene.cpp	6 Feb 2002 16:54:56 -0000	1.62
++++ nel/src/3d/scene.cpp	17 Feb 2002 13:02:25 -0000
+@@ -463,7 +463,11 @@
+ #endif
+ 
+ 	// Look if this instance get lightmap information
+-	CMeshBase *pMB = dynamic_cast<CMeshBase*>( (IShape*)(pTShp->Shape) );
++#if defined(__GNUC__) && __GNUC__ < 3
++	CMeshBase *pMB = (CMeshBase*)((IShape*)(pTShp->Shape));
++#else // not GNUC
++	CMeshBase *pMB = dynamic_cast<CMeshBase*>((IShape*)(pTShp->Shape));
++#endif // not GNUC
+ 	CMeshBaseInstance *pMBI = dynamic_cast<CMeshBaseInstance*>( pTShp );
+ 	if( ( pMB != NULL ) && ( pMBI != NULL ) )
+ 	{ // Try to bind to automatic animation
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/Makefile.am	18 Dec 2000 15:30:11 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/Makefile.am	17 Feb 2002 13:02:25 -0000
+@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@
+ 
+ MAINTAINERCLEANFILES = Makefile.in
+ 
+-SUBDIRS              = opengl .
++SUBDIRS              = opengl
+ 
+ 
+ # End of Makefile.am
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.110
+diff -u -r1.110 driver_opengl.h
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h	15 Feb 2002 17:43:03 -0000	1.110
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h	17 Feb 2002 13:02:26 -0000
+@@ -381,10 +381,10 @@
+ 	virtual void			forceTextureResize(uint divisor);
+ 
+ 	/// Setup texture env functions. Used by setupMaterial
+-	inline void				setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat);
++	void				setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat);
+ 
+ 	/// setup the texture matrix for a given number of stages (starting from 0)
+-	inline void      setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat);
++	void      setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat);
+ 
+ 	/// For objects with caustics, setup the first texture (which actually is the one from the material)
+ 	/*static inline void		setupCausticsFirstTex(const CMaterial &mat);
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.57
+diff -u -r1.57 driver_opengl_material.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp	15 Feb 2002 17:43:41 -0000	1.57
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp	17 Feb 2002 13:02:27 -0000
+@@ -104,7 +104,7 @@
+ 
+ 
+ // --------------------------------------------------
+-inline void CDriverGL::setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat)
++void CDriverGL::setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat)
+ {
+ 	ITexture	*text= mat.getTexture(stage);
+ 	if(text)
+@@ -138,7 +138,7 @@
+ 
+ 
+ //--------------------------------
+-inline void CDriverGL::setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat)
++void CDriverGL::setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat)
+ { 
+ 	if (
+ 		(_UserTexMatEnabled != 0 && (mat.getFlags() & IDRV_MAT_USER_TEX_MAT_ALL) == 0)		
+Index: nel/src/misc/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/misc/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.39
+diff -u -r1.39 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/misc/Makefile.am	12 Dec 2001 15:40:10 -0000	1.39
++++ nel/src/misc/Makefile.am	17 Feb 2002 13:02:28 -0000
+@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@
+ 
+ MAINTAINERCLEANFILES  = Makefile.in
+ 
+-SUBDIRS               = config_file .
++SUBDIRS               = config_file
+ 
+ lib_LTLIBRARIES       = libnelmisc.la
+ 
+Index: nel/src/misc/mutex.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/misc/mutex.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.26
+diff -u -r1.26 mutex.cpp
+--- nel/src/misc/mutex.cpp	8 Jan 2002 15:56:36 -0000	1.26
++++ nel/src/misc/mutex.cpp	17 Feb 2002 13:02:28 -0000
+@@ -25,7 +25,9 @@
+ 
+ #include "stdmisc.h"
+ 
++#ifndef _GNU_SOURCE
+ #define _GNU_SOURCE
++#endif // _GNU_SOURCE
+ 
+ #include "nel/misc/mutex.h"
+ #include "nel/misc/time_nl.h"
+Index: nel/src/misc/path.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/misc/path.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.19
+diff -u -r1.19 path.cpp
+--- nel/src/misc/path.cpp	12 Feb 2002 13:55:59 -0000	1.19
++++ nel/src/misc/path.cpp	17 Feb 2002 13:02:28 -0000
+@@ -723,7 +723,7 @@
+ #else // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 	struct stat buf;
+ 	return stat (filename.c_str (), &buf) == 0;
+-#endif NL_OS_WINDOWS
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ }
+ 
+ bool CFile::fileExists (const string& filename)
+Index: nel/src/sound/driver/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/sound/driver/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+diff -u -r1.2 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/sound/driver/Makefile.am	3 Aug 2001 10:16:59 -0000	1.2
++++ nel/src/sound/driver/Makefile.am	17 Feb 2002 13:02:29 -0000
+@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@
+ 
+ MAINTAINERCLEANFILES          = Makefile.in
+ 
+-SUBDIRS                       = openal .
++SUBDIRS                       = openal
+ 
+ noinst_LTLIBRARIES            = libnelsnd_lowlevel.la
+ 
+Index: snowballs2/acinclude.m4
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/snowballs2/acinclude.m4,v
+retrieving revision 1.7
+diff -u -r1.7 acinclude.m4
+--- snowballs2/acinclude.m4	29 Jan 2002 13:21:42 -0000	1.7
++++ snowballs2/acinclude.m4	17 Feb 2002 13:02:43 -0000
+@@ -364,7 +364,12 @@
+                           path to the STLPort library files directory.
+                           e.g. /usr/local/stlport/lib])
+ 
+-stlport_lib="stlport_gcc"
++if test "$with_debug" = "full"
++then
++	stlport_lib="stlport_gcc_stldebug"
++else
++	stlport_lib="stlport_gcc"
++fi
+ 
+ if test "$with_stlport" = no
+ then
+Index: snowballs2/client/src/entities.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/snowballs2/client/src/entities.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.42
+diff -u -r1.42 entities.cpp
+--- snowballs2/client/src/entities.cpp	14 Feb 2002 13:03:53 -0000	1.42
++++ snowballs2/client/src/entities.cpp	17 Feb 2002 13:02:44 -0000
+@@ -719,7 +719,7 @@
+ 			}
+ */
+ 			// snap to the ground
+-			if (!GlobalRetriever->isInterior(gPos)
++			if (!GlobalRetriever->isInterior(gPos))
+ 				entity.VisualCollisionEntity->snapToGround(entity.Position);
+ 
+ 			if (entity.Type == CEntity::Other &&
+@@ -728,7 +728,7 @@
+ //				nlinfo("detected over entity %d", entity.Id);
+ 				entity.ServerPosition.z = entity.Position.z;
+ 				entity.Position = entity.ServerPosition;
+-				if (!GlobalRetriever->isInterior(gPos)
++				if (!GlobalRetriever->isInterior(gPos))
+ 					entity.VisualCollisionEntity->snapToGround(entity.Position);
+ 				entity.MovePrimitive->setGlobalPosition(CVectorD(entity.Position.x, entity.Position.y, entity.Position.z), 0);
+ 			}
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From berenguier@nevrax.com Mon Feb 18 10:54:07 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1I9s5W89170
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:54:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from lionelb (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1I9luk89128
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:47:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from berenguier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000e01c1b862$3a90f9d0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+From: "Lionel Berenguier" <berenguier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15471.49241.106895.728972@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:54:17 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Thanks for this patch.
+
+As you say, AM_GL_VERIFY is not used and I don't find use of
+NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS in your patch.
+
+We think that our way to solve the GL version problem is better, even if
+maybe more weird, since it solves it both under windows and linux.
+
+The rest of the patch will be applied. Tell us if not applying AM_GL_VERIFY
+patch is a problem.
+
+Cheers.
+
+Lionel
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Loic Dachary" <loic@gnu.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 3:38 PM
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+
+
+>
+> Hi,
+>
+> I'd be grateful if you could apply the patch below. It was
+> generated with today's CVS. Nel + snowballs compile + run with
+> this patch. Here is a short description:
+>
+> - AM_GL_VERIFY autoconf macro (not used but necessary to turn
+>   the current hackish workaround into a proper fix)
+[....]
+>
+> Thanks in advance,
+>
+> Index: nel/acinclude.m4
+> ===================================================================
+> RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/acinclude.m4,v
+> retrieving revision 1.7
+> diff -u -r1.7 acinclude.m4
+> --- nel/acinclude.m4 29 Jan 2002 13:21:42 -0000 1.7
+> +++ nel/acinclude.m4 17 Feb 2002 13:02:19 -0000
+> @@ -45,6 +45,14 @@
+>  dnl    Description: check the instalation of the OpenGL library and set
+the
+>  dnl                 OPENGL_CFLAGS and OPENGL_LIBS variables to use it.
+>  dnl
+> +dnl AM_GL_VERIFY
+> +dnl
+> +dnl    Description: checks OpenGL headers and libraries consistency.
+> +dnl                 Define NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS
+> +dnl       if GL_ARB_multitexture is defined in gl.h but is missing
+> +dnl       functions typedefs. This happens, for instance, with
+> +dnl                   Mesa-3.4.2 & Mesa-4.0.1.
+> +dnl
+>  dnl
+>  dnl AM_PATH_FREETYPE
+>  dnl
+> @@ -605,6 +613,32 @@
+>  AC_SUBST(OPENGL_CFLAGS)
+>  AC_SUBST(OPENGL_LIBS)
+>
+> +])
+> +
+> +AC_DEFUN(AM_GL_VERIFY,
+>
+
+> +_CPPFLAGS="$CPPFLAGS"
+> +
+> +CPPFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS $OPENGL_CFLAGS"
+> +
+> +AC_MSG_CHECKING([for GL_ARB_multitexture in gl.h])
+> +AC_EGREP_CPP(glActiveTextureARB,
+> +[#define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+> +#include <GL/gl.h>],
+> +[
+> +  AC_EGREP_CPP(PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC,
+> +  [#include <GL/gl.h>],
+> +  [AC_MSG_RESULT([found and typedefs defined])],
+> +  [
+> +    AC_MSG_RESULT([found and missing typdefs, define
+NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS])
+> +    AC_DEFINE(NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS)
+> +  ])
+> +],
+> +[
+> +  AC_MSG_RESULT([not found, this is ok])
+> +])
+> +
+> +CPPFLAGS="$_CPPFLAGS"
+>  ])
+>
+>
+> Index: nel/configure.in
+> ===================================================================
+> RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+> retrieving revision 1.59
+> diff -u -r1.59 configure.in
+> --- nel/configure.in 28 Jan 2002 15:22:19 -0000 1.59
+> +++ nel/configure.in 17 Feb 2002 13:02:19 -0000
+> @@ -247,7 +247,7 @@
+>  dnl OpenGL
+>
+>  AM_PATH_OPENGL($enable_3d)
+> -
+> +AM_GL_VERIFY
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Mon Feb 18 11:18:28 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IAINW90493
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:18:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1IACAk89449
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:12:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:12:09 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEELHCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="us-ascii"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+Importance: Normal
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+In-Reply-To: <15464.59174.152741.642712@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This one is a little out of date - I wrote it last April.
+The feature list hasn't realy changed, but the 'to be developed' and 'in
+development' listings are badly out of date.
+
+We'll give it a once over shortly.
+
+Regards,
+Daniel
+
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Loic Dachary
+Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:58 AM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I wonder if the http://www.nevrax.org/docs/features_nel_3d.php3
+page is up to date. It does not contain a date, therefore I feel the need
+of bothering people ;-)
+
+	Here are a few typo fixes:
+
+s/dissable/disable/
+s/technicque/technique/
+s/ofobjects/of objects/
+s/insuffricient/insufficient/
+
+	Cheers,
+
+--
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 18 12:29:15 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IBTEW94995
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:29:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1IBN5k90312
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:23:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006801c1b86e$a2602d90$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15471.49241.106895.728972@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:23:05 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] contrib et fix
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Bonjour,
+
+Je sais qu'il y a une difference entre une contribution (un gros patch) et
+un fix, mais j'aimerais savoir si il y a des doc officiels qui precisent la
+limite entre les 2. C'est a dire, si quelqu'un nous donne un patch de 15
+lignes, est ce un fix ou une contrib? La limite est fixe par un nombre de
+ligne? Si oui, de combien, y a t il une url qui parle de cela?
+
+Merci
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 18 12:36:46 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IBakW95451
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:36:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1IBUbk90457
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:30:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008201c1b86f$afccf4d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15471.49241.106895.728972@inspiron.dachary.org> <006801c1b86e$a2602d90$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] contrib et fix
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:30:37 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Ouppssss, sorry, it was a private mail, not for the nel mailing list :)
+anyway, I'll ask you:
+
+I know that there is a difference between a contribution (a large patch) and
+a fix, but I would like to know if there are official Doc.
+which spoke the limit between the 2.  If somebody gives us a patch of 15
+lines, is a this fix or a contrib?  Is the limit fixed by a number of line?
+If so, where is the limit? Is there a URL which speaks about that?
+
+Thank you
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:23 PM
+Subject: [Nel] contrib et fix
+
+
+> Bonjour,
+>
+> Je sais qu'il y a une difference entre une contribution (un gros patch) et
+> un fix, mais j'aimerais savoir si il y a des doc officiels qui precisent
+la
+> limite entre les 2. C'est a dire, si quelqu'un nous donne un patch de 15
+> lignes, est ce un fix ou une contrib? La limite est fixe par un nombre de
+> ligne? Si oui, de combien, y a t il une url qui parle de cela?
+>
+> Merci
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o?
+K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+>
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Mon Feb 18 12:53:37 2002
+Received: from digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g1IBrbW96538
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:53:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 15168 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2002 12:28:24 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 18 Feb 2002 12:28:24 -0000
+Message-ID: <0abf01c1b872$1a9db450$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15471.49241.106895.728972@inspiron.dachary.org> <006801c1b86e$a2602d90$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <008201c1b86f$afccf4d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] contrib et fix
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:47:55 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+In my opinion contributions are more than patches. They usually are new
+features and/or new programs that interface with the current official
+distribution.
+Most unix packages have a "contrib" directory with "contributed" programs in
+it.
+
+My 0.02 Euro :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:30 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] contrib et fix
+
+
+> Ouppssss, sorry, it was a private mail, not for the nel mailing list :)
+> anyway, I'll ask you:
+>
+> I know that there is a difference between a contribution (a large patch)
+and
+> a fix, but I would like to know if there are official Doc.
+> which spoke the limit between the 2.  If somebody gives us a patch of 15
+> lines, is a this fix or a contrib?  Is the limit fixed by a number of
+line?
+> If so, where is the limit? Is there a URL which speaks about that?
+>
+> Thank you
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o?
+K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+>
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:23 PM
+> Subject: [Nel] contrib et fix
+>
+>
+> > Bonjour,
+> >
+> > Je sais qu'il y a une difference entre une contribution (un gros patch)
+et
+> > un fix, mais j'aimerais savoir si il y a des doc officiels qui precisent
+> la
+> > limite entre les 2. C'est a dire, si quelqu'un nous donne un patch de 15
+> > lignes, est ce un fix ou une contrib? La limite est fixe par un nombre
+de
+> > ligne? Si oui, de combien, y a t il une url qui parle de cela?
+> >
+> > Merci
+> >
+> > Vianney Lecroart
+> > ---
+> > lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> > icq#: 6870415
+> > homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> > www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+
+o?
+> K-
+> > w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+> >
+> >
+> >
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> >
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+>
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Feb 18 14:12:45 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IDCiW01658
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:12:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [213.167.146.97] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:06:23 Z
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:33:50 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <86407999011.20020218133350@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g1IDCiW01658
+Subject: [Nel] Different Animation results
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+I have max3.1 and character studio 3.01.  My animations
+and skinning look fine in the NeL Object Viewer but
+when I load them into my client app (that is based on
+Snowballs2) there are problems.  For example:
+in a walk cycle, in Object Viewer/max the arms are
+animated down by the sides of the torso, but in my
+client app they come straight out from the shoulders
+and the fingers are at a (semi) fixed point so the
+fingers grow larger and shorter (skinning problem?)...
+Any hints?
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert Bjarnason
+robert@in-orbit.net
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Feb 18 15:14:08 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IEE7W05703
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:14:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [213.167.146.97] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:07:52 Z
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:35:18 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <157411687395.20020218143518@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+In-reply-To: <86407999011.20020218133350@in-orbit.net>
+References: <86407999011.20020218133350@in-orbit.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g1IEE7W05703
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+Hi,
+
+When I use the standalone Object Viewer.exe and load
+the shape, skel, swt & animation I get the exact same
+corrupt results as when I view the animations in
+the client application.  So the difference seems to
+be when I export the data to files instead of having
+the Object Viewer transfer the data directly from
+3dxmax...
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Feb 18 16:55:46 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IFtjW12470
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:55:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000b01c1b893$ed7b0410$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <86407999011.20020218133350@in-orbit.net> <157411687395.20020218143518@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:50:02 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Robert,
+
+> When I use the standalone Object Viewer.exe and load
+> the shape, skel, swt & animation I get the exact same
+> corrupt results as when I view the animations in
+> the client application.  So the difference seems to
+> be when I export the data to files instead of having
+> the Object Viewer transfer the data directly from
+> 3dxmax...
+
+Be sure your biped is in "Figure Mode" when you export the skeleton
+(*.skel) and your shape (*.shape).
+
+This should fixe your problem.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Feb 18 17:13:42 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IGDeW13688
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:13:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [213.167.146.97] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:07:03 Z
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:29:06 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <154418515293.20020218162906@in-orbit.net>
+To: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+In-reply-To: <000b01c1b893$ed7b0410$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+References: <86407999011.20020218133350@in-orbit.net>
+ <157411687395.20020218143518@in-orbit.net>
+ <000b01c1b893$ed7b0410$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
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+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Cyril,
+
+CHC> Be sure your biped is in "Figure Mode" when you export the skeleton
+CHC> (*.skel) and your shape (*.shape).
+
+CHC> This should fixe your problem.
+
+Yes, it did :)
+
+Thanks,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 18 19:04:06 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1II45W21552
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:04:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15473.16537.183479.118719@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:57:45 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+In-Reply-To: Lionel Berenguier's message of 18 February 2002 10:54:17 +0100
+References: <15471.49241.106895.728972@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<000e01c1b862$3a90f9d0$0601a8c0@lionelb>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Lionel Berenguier writes:
+ > 
+ > Thanks for this patch.
+ > 
+ > As you say, AM_GL_VERIFY is not used and I don't find use of
+ > NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS in your patch.
+
+	True.
+
+ > We think that our way to solve the GL version problem is better, even if
+ > maybe more weird, since it solves it both under windows and linux.
+
+	The solution you implemented is definitely working. I tend to think
+that it's better to check & fix that kind of issue with a configure time 
+test + #define symbol but that's a minor point. You may want to change the
+comment since the same problem shows with Mesa-4.0.1 gl.h header although
+it claims to be OpenGL 1.3 compliant. 
+
+	Regarding compatibility with non GNU/Linux operating systems
+on which you can't / don't want to run autoconf, one should be careful
+when generating symbols. For instance,
+NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS can be used to include the
+typedefs. If not on GNU/Linux, the typedefs are not included.  If they
+need to be included on another platform you could 
+
+#if defined(NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS) || defined(NEL_OS_PLATFORM)
+
+	Unless you have a different configure-like system that works
+on these platforms and is able to generate
+NEL_ARB_MULTITEXTURE_NO_TYPEDEFS when appropriate. I'd be interested
+to hear about an operating system on which autoconf cannot be run.
+
+	That raises an interesting question : is anyone compiling
+snowballs using autoconf on a platform that is not GNU/Linux ? In theory
+it should work (that's the whole point of having autoconf scripts ;-)
+but experience shows that it requires a small amount of tweaking anyway.
+
+ > The rest of the patch will be applied. Tell us if not applying AM_GL_VERIFY
+ > patch is a problem.
+
+	It is not, thanks for asking ;-)
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 18 19:34:30 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IIYTW22755
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:34:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
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+Message-ID: <15473.18360.723384.684719@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:28:08 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: RE: [Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+In-Reply-To: Daniel Miller's message of 18 February 2002 11:12:09 +0100
+References: <15464.59174.152741.642712@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEELHCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Daniel Miller writes:
+ > This one is a little out of date - I wrote it last April.
+ > The feature list hasn't realy changed, but the 'to be developed' and 'in
+ > development' listings are badly out of date.
+ > 
+ > We'll give it a once over shortly.
+
+	That would be nice. Here are a few features I found in other
+3D engines. You may want to add them to the list, even if to say that
+Nel does not support XXX this because it supports YYY that is
+superior. It would help people understand why and how Nel is better
+than any existing Free Software 3D engine.
+
+	That would help a lot when comparing. You also want to
+s/frustrum/frustum/ ;-)
+
+
+----
+     True perspective rendering
+     True 6DOF engine
+     Arbitrary sloped convex polygons
+
+     Flexible plugin system which allows for plugging in other
+     Generic mechanism that allows plug-and-play capabilities and
+
+     Support for 8-bit (palette), 15/16-bit (truecolor), and 32-bit (truecolor) displays.
+     Run at many resolutions (320x200, 640x480, 800x600, ...).
+     Window or fullscreen mode, up to 1024x768 (30fps on minimal config)
+
+     Visibility system based on [portals, octrees, BSP trees,
+	c-buffer, CSG].
+     Hierarchical bounding box collision detection system.
+     Elipsoid collision detection.
+     Polygon level collision detection for terrain and 3D objects
+
+     Font system plugin to support other font types
+
+     Textures can have any size which is a [power of two / not a power
+       of two] and they [need / need not] be square.
+     Supports textures with various formats including GIF, TGA, PNG,
+       BMP, JPG, and others.
+     Perspective correct texture mapping with interpolation every xx pixel.
+     Transparent and semi-transparent textures allowing for
+       see-through water surfaces and windows.
+     Support for dynamic textures (i.e. texture that you can render
+       on and put on a polygon as well as normal textures).
+     Support for internal 24-bit textures with a private colormap for
+       every texture or true 24-bit.
+
+     Multiple 3D windows and real-time cameras for 1st or 3rd person views
+     Split screen
+     Zoom
+
+     Full programmable and customizable through scripting language
+
+     Light maps
+     Trilinear mip mapping
+     Mip mapping
+     Animated 3D sprites
+     Animated 3D decals
+     Heightmap based deformable terrain for landscapes
+     Geometric LOD
+     Smooth mesh deformation for models
+     Flat and cubic environment map rendering
+     Mirrors and alpha mapping you can create really nice shiny or
+        reflecting surfaces.
+     Procedural textures for water or lava.
+     Programmable 2D and 3D effects (lens flares, bullet holes etc.)
+     Camera portals and mirrors
+     Programmable particle and beam generators
+     Particle system using 2D sprites
+
+     Path tracking for camera, actors or vehicles
+     Animated soft-skin models with unlimited skin size
+     3D triangle mesh sprites with frame animation.
+     Support for skeletal sprites.
+     3D objects can be taken or manipulated with mouse in real time
+     Moving objects 
+     Script language controlling object movement.
+
+     3D sound sources (DS3D, EAX, A3D, ...) with Doppler effect
+     CD Audio, MID and WAV support for music and 3D sounds
+     Sound formats: WAV, MP3, Ogg/Vorbis, AU, AIFF, IFF, and MOD (using MikMod).
+     Save / Load feature for resuming games at arbitrary positions
+     Convertors for Quake MDL and Quake II MD2 formats
+     Convert MAP files (from Quake/HalfLife) from/to internal format. 
+     Convert 3DS to models or levels.
+     Load 3DS, MDL, MD2, ASE, OBJ, or POV objects.
+     ASCII world file format allowing you to easily redefine the world.
+     Store levels in standard compressed ZIP archives to make a bundle of one level.
+
+     Animated multi-layered sky and backdrop bitmaps
+     Multi-layered and animated skyboxes and skydomes.
+     Dynamic gouraud shaded sky dome (half-sphere) 
+     Moving sun which actually modifies the color of the sky in real time
+     Halo's around lights.
+     Coloured fog areas
+     Depth-correct colored volumetric fog in sectors (software & hardware)
+     Integrated 2D engine for background pictures
+
+     Multi-player client/server mode via network (TCP or UDP)
+
+     2D sprites, panels, buttons, sliders, overlays
+     2D controls, text, screenshots, and movie scenes
+     Static and dynamic coloured light sources
+     Static colored lights with real shadows. Lighting and shadows
+     Static and dynamic shadows
+     Dynamic colored lights with soft shadows
+     Precalculated Radiosity on the Lightmaps
+     Arbitrary axis (quaternion) rotations 
+     Remote or missile cameras
+	
+----
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 18 21:00:15 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IK0EW24726
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:00:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16ctrG-0003dK-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:53:54 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15473.23506.341278.819376@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:53:54 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] contrib et fix
+In-Reply-To: Vianney Lecroart's message of 18 February 2002 12:30:37 +0100
+References: <15471.49241.106895.728972@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<006801c1b86e$a2602d90$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+	<008201c1b86f$afccf4d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ > 
+ > I know that there is a difference between a contribution (a large patch) and
+ > a fix, but I would like to know if there are official Doc.
+ > which spoke the limit between the 2.  If somebody gives us a patch of 15
+ > lines, is a this fix or a contrib?  Is the limit fixed by a number of line?
+ > If so, where is the limit? Is there a URL which speaks about that?
+ > 
+
+	AFAIK, the 15 lines of code threshold is informal and based on 
+past judgements. It could be argued that this is an urban legend (internet
+legend ?-). I could ask for confirmation to a lawyer if this is important.
+I have no reference URL handy.
+
+	This limit is important when a developer or a company needs to
+make sure it is the sole copyright holder of the software. This is the
+best way to make sure a Free Software can be properly defended when/if
+a license violation occurs. Being the single copyright holder puts you
+in the best position to negotiate with the violator so that she
+complies to the license terms. Multiplying the copyright holders of a
+given software is a technique to prevent a Free Software to become
+proprietary but is rather inefficient to enforce the license if needs
+be.
+
+	If it's not already the case, it would be good that
+contributors to nel assign copyright to Nevrax, much in the same way
+as contributors assign copyright to the FSF. Of course, when a
+contributor to GNU Emacs (for instance) assigns copyright to the FSF
+for her work, the FSF makes a written promise to release the
+contribution under a Free Software license.  This is a fair system
+that Nevrax could use for nel. Of course, you don't want to bother
+about copyright assignment with every contributor who provides only a
+few lines and this is where the 15 lines threshold helps you.
+
+	When nel becomes widely used, I guess Nevrax will need to
+handle significant contributions and a few violators. The fact that
+nel is released under the GNU GPL (instead of the GNU LGPL for
+instance) helps. It is *a lot* harder to convince violators on GNU
+LGPL'ed code. When someone (note that I do not say if someone ;-)
+expands nel and distribute the result without the corresponding source
+code, it won't take more than a few weeks to convince her to comply.
+As it turns out, the GNU GPL is the only license that is efficient
+to protect a Free Software company business.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 18 23:02:15 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IM2EW26708
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:02:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
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+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:55:54 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+	Hi,
+
+	Here is a patch that fixes the viewport lossage on GNU/Linux.
+The patch is minimal and while working on it I realized that X11
+support probably need some serious work. Am I right or somehow
+mistaken ?
+
+	Cheers,
+
+P.S. Note that the patch adds less than 15 lines ;-)
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.136
+diff -u -r1.136 driver_opengl.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp	15 Feb 2002 17:43:03 -0000	1.136
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp	18 Feb 2002 21:48:32 -0000
+@@ -1213,13 +1213,23 @@
+ 
+ void CDriverGL::setupViewport (const class CViewport& viewport)
+ {
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
++#if NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 	if (_hWnd)
+ 	{
+ 		// Get window rect
+ 		RECT rect;
+ 		GetClientRect (_hWnd, &rect);
+-
++		// Setup gl viewport
++		int clientWidth=rect.right-rect.left;
++		int clientHeight=rect.bottom-rect.top;
++#else // NL_OS_WINDOWS
++		XWindowAttributes win_attributes;
++		if (!XGetWindowAttributes(dpy, win, &win_attributes))
++		  throw EBadDisplay("Can't get window attributes.");
++		// Setup gl viewport
++		int clientWidth=win_attributes.width;
++		int clientHeight=win_attributes.height;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 		// Get viewport
+ 		float x;
+ 		float y;
+@@ -1227,9 +1237,6 @@
+ 		float height;
+ 		viewport.getValues (x, y, width, height);
+ 
+-		// Setup gl viewport
+-		int clientWidth=rect.right-rect.left;
+-		int clientHeight=rect.bottom-rect.top;
+ 		int ix=(int)((float)clientWidth*x);
+ 		clamp (ix, 0, clientWidth);
+ 		int iy=(int)((float)clientHeight*y);
+@@ -1239,6 +1246,7 @@
+ 		int iheight=(int)((float)clientHeight*height);
+ 		clamp (iheight, 0, clientHeight-iy);
+ 		glViewport (ix, iy, iwidth, iheight);
++#if NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 	}
+ #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ }
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 18 23:27:50 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IMRnW27115
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:27:49 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16cwA5-0003iZ-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:21:29 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15473.32361.431832.806321@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:21:29 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux status
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I'm logged in on itsalive.nevrax.org, happily wandering around,
+throwing snowballs. I still have a non existant landscape but that's ok ;-)
+
+	I managed to setup the following configuration, Free Software 
+from top to bottom:
+
+	Dual PIII450 / ~700Mb RAM
+	ASUS P2B-D (means AGP x 2 IIRC)
+	ATI Radeon 7500 / 64Mb
+	XFree-4.2.0 with DRI
+	linux-2.4.17 with Radeon DRM
+	STL-4.5
+	Nel + Snowballs (today's CVS + patches send yesterday evening 
+			 on the list)
+		Compiled with -with-debug
+		Full screen 800x600
+
+	It delivers 16fps with the logo turning in the top left corner
+and not doing much else. That's not outstanding but I may be able to 
+increase it with optimized compilation. Anyway, it's a lot better than
+the 0.5 fps I had with software rendering.
+
+	I'd be interested to know what kind of frame rate people can
+get. Please don't frustrate me with outstanding frame rates that
+require proprietary software ;-)
+
+	I'll stay logged in itsalive.nevrax.org all night, you're
+wellcome to send me some snowballs while I'm asleep (1840.00, -970.00,
+-22.45).
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Mon Feb 18 23:38:40 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-16-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1IMceW27360
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:38:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24443AFD4
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:32:34 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15473.30826.88473.466611@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15473.30826.88473.466611@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 18 Feb 2002 23:32:25 +0100
+Message-Id: <1014071545.895.183.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Mon, 2002-02-18 at 22:55, Loic Dachary wrote:
+> 
+> 	Hi,
+> 
+> 	Here is a patch that fixes the viewport lossage on GNU/Linux.
+> The patch is minimal and while working on it I realized that X11
+> support probably need some serious work. Am I right or somehow
+> mistaken ?
+
+I would say 'you are right' :)
+
+There are some things that could be cleaner of more efficient, like the
+(not so working) keyboard mapping, a function to fetch the window size
+(the 'XGetWindowAttribute' snippet is pasted everywhere), DGA mouse
+handling, and other tidbits ...
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Tue Feb 19 11:32:53 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JAWqW65183
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:32:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16d7Tj-0004Gx-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:26:31 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15474.10327.619945.754955@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:26:31 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+In-Reply-To: Vincent Caron's message of 18 February 2002 23:32:25 +0100
+References: <15473.30826.88473.466611@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<1014071545.895.183.camel@zerodeux.home>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
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+Precedence: bulk
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+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vincent Caron writes:
+ > On Mon, 2002-02-18 at 22:55, Loic Dachary wrote:
+ > > 
+ > > 	Hi,
+ > > 
+ > > 	Here is a patch that fixes the viewport lossage on GNU/Linux.
+ > > The patch is minimal and while working on it I realized that X11
+ > > support probably need some serious work. Am I right or somehow
+ > > mistaken ?
+ > 
+ > I would say 'you are right' :)
+ > 
+ > There are some things that could be cleaner of more efficient, like the
+ > (not so working) keyboard mapping, a function to fetch the window size
+ > (the 'XGetWindowAttribute' snippet is pasted everywhere), DGA mouse
+ > handling, and other tidbits ...
+ > 
+
+	Wouldn't SDL help a lot here ? 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Feb 19 16:07:34 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-16-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JF7XW81353
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:07:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921DCAFC7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:01:25 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux status
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15473.32361.431832.806321@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15473.32361.431832.806321@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 19 Feb 2002 16:01:22 +0100
+Message-Id: <1014130882.773.1.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> 	I'll stay logged in itsalive.nevrax.org all night, you're
+> wellcome to send me some snowballs while I'm asleep (1840.00, -970.00,
+> -22.45).
+
+I was there : http://zerodeux.net/img/snowballs.jpg :)
+I see you already found the magic talisman that makes you fly 100 feets
+high (or maybe we miss a landscape ? ;))
+
+> 	I'd be interested to know what kind of frame rate people can
+> get. Please don't frustrate me with outstanding frame rates that
+> require proprietary software ;-)
+
+Sorry, it's displayed anyway :)
+
+
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Tue Feb 19 16:14:46 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (aboukir-101-1-16-zerodeux.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JFEkW81670
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:14:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346F0AFC7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:08:38 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15474.10327.619945.754955@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15473.30826.88473.466611@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<1014071545.895.183.camel@zerodeux.home> 
+	<15474.10327.619945.754955@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Date: 19 Feb 2002 16:08:34 +0100
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Tue, 2002-02-19 at 11:26, Loic Dachary wrote:
+> 	Wouldn't SDL help a lot here ? 
+
+It could. However NeL needs very few glue code with the OS, SDL has a
+minimal OpenGL support (was added late, SDL primary purpose is direct
+frame buffer access, doesn't deal with extensions for instance), and
+comes with its own event and setup mechanism. I guess taking
+'inspiration' from such a lib would be a good idea ... However SDL was
+used by Loki for most ports, so it has a good track record.
+
+I'm maintaining a list of GL toolkits here :
+  http://ngl.sourceforge.net/links.php
+
+(Yes, I also have such a lib - NGL - which is bound to be released, but
+is a much broader framework, shouldn't fit NeL)
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Tue Feb 19 16:20:48 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JFKkW82063
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:20:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16dByL-0004Tb-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:14:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15474.27601.56773.322733@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:14:25 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux status
+In-Reply-To: Vincent Caron's message of 19 February 2002 16:01:22 +0100
+References: <15473.32361.431832.806321@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<1014130882.773.1.camel@zerodeux.home>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vincent Caron writes:
+ > > 	I'll stay logged in itsalive.nevrax.org all night, you're
+ > > wellcome to send me some snowballs while I'm asleep (1840.00, -970.00,
+ > > -22.45).
+ > 
+ > I was there : http://zerodeux.net/img/snowballs.jpg :)
+ > I see you already found the magic talisman that makes you fly 100 feets
+ > high (or maybe we miss a landscape ? ;))
+
+	:-) I really missed the landscape because I was not able to find
+the way down. I was facing the sun to prefect the tan of my GNU ;-)
+
+ > > 	I'd be interested to know what kind of frame rate people can
+ > > get. Please don't frustrate me with outstanding frame rates that
+ > > require proprietary software ;-)
+ > 
+ > Sorry, it's displayed anyway :)
+
+	You're cheating, the Nel logo is not displayed and this gives
+you an unfair advantage :-) I'll see if I can restore the landscape. Btw,
+shouldn't we see some snow ? 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Feb 19 16:53:11 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JFrBW84029
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:53:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007201c1b95c$abc5eed0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15473.32361.431832.806321@inspiron.dachary.org><1014130882.773.1.camel@zerodeux.home> <15474.27601.56773.322733@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux status
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:47:01 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> You're cheating, the Nel logo is not displayed and this gives
+> you an unfair advantage :-) I'll see if I can restore the landscape. Btw,
+> shouldn't we see some snow ?
+
+Hum, No more snow because it s nearly the spring (or a bug? :-), but there's
+no snow also on windows so it's not another linux bug!
+For the landscape, I don't have any clue about what It was not displayed.
+Using SDL is not a very good idea because it s quite big (we need only one
+or 2 files) and add another external lib dependency.
+It's better to 'inspirate' from it if possible.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From brian.s@seos.com Tue Feb 19 17:50:07 2002
+Received: from keywest.kennett.net (keywest.kennett.net [208.212.182.12])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JGo5W87460
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:50:06 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <BB0314E4D73DD311BB3900105A09EE6B295AFE@SEOSUS3>
+From: Brian Shores <Brian.S@seos.com>
+To: info@in-orbit.net, nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: AW_Discussion_Group@yahoogroups.com, Artillo5@cs.com
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:40:56 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+X-SLUIDL: AE43C76C-D13F4023-96684EBD-B4E8AAD9
+Subject: [Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Dear Fellow 3D'ers, 
+
+	I received links to your websites from the Virtual Reality
+Association and am very interested in your projects. I am currently looking
+for an alternative 3D environment than Activeworlds: one that will support
+more functionality than previously available and also "in-line" world
+building (as opposed to offline creation of content). There is a group of us
+discussing the possibility of a Citizen-owned Universe, and we have been
+debating whether to simply purchase a Universe server from Activeworlds, or
+go with a totally new technology. One of the biggest concerns we have as a
+group is the fact that there is a lot of "legacy data" consisting of builds,
+bots, websites, etc. that are all intertwined with Activeworlds technology.
+Support of RWX/COB objects and avatars, Activeworlds "propdumps", and
+software interface for custom applications developed with the Activeworlds
+SDK would be something that we are looking for the new technology to
+support. 
+
+	There are several other groups developing new 3D environment
+technology. It would be nice if they could all get together, share ideas,
+and possibly combine efforts to produce an open source platform that we can
+all use comfortably as our new cyber-home! We want to be FREE of the
+influence of corporate greed and poor management/marketing tactics, we want
+a place that we all own a part of and have a say as to how things are run.
+
+Here are some links relating to the discussion: 
+http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AW_Discussion_Group 
+http://kaltana.com/freedom 
+
+An alternative to AW Technology being developed (There are others also, I
+just can't find the links!): 
+http://seeray.com/derekrayburn/index.html 
+
+	I can only hope that people work together on this so that the future
+of online VR worlds will be secure, creative, entertaining, Democratically
+FAIR, and prosperous! The best way to facilitate a positive change is to
+keep communicating, and keep developing the future of the cyber-frontier. We
+must all work together towards these common goals. 
+
+Peace and Happy Building,
+
+Artillo
+
+a.k.a.
+
+Brian Shores 
+Mechanical design Engineer 
+SEOS Incorporated 
+USA Manufacturing Division 
+Kennett Square, PA 
+(610) 925-5844 extension 19 
+http://www.seos.com 
+
+"Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do.
+Attitude determines how well you do it." 
+-Lou Holtz- 
+
+From tharibo@free.fr Tue Feb 19 18:17:23 2002
+Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr (postfix2-1.free.fr [213.228.0.9])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JHHMW89004
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:17:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tharibo@free.fr)
+Received: from there (toulouse-1-a7-35-201.dial.proxad.net [62.147.35.201])
+	by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 27D9810A
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:11:12 +0100 (CET)
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+  charset="iso-8859-1"
+From: Thomas RIBO <tharibo@free.fr>
+To: "Nel ML" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Data Ownership
+Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:06:09 +0100
+X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3]
+References: <0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC901911C@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
+In-Reply-To: <0881AC7F2F339C40BC6F7983D1E0BEC901911C@mail2k.embarcadero-ca.com>
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: tharibo@free.fr
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Le Mercredi 13 Février 2002 01:22, John Hayes a écrit :
+> What kind of information do you think would be suitable for each type
+> of server in the context of a game?
+
+Terrain data is in my opinion static. It could be distributed on 
+geographical servers--in the sense of: one server manages one (or more) 
+parts of the world-- or copied on all servers, or stay on a dedicated 
+server. The players positions (and players objects in a whole) are 
+typically dynamic data and we should consider that players should not 
+meet all others at a given time. So, now, there are many maners to 
+manage these players: the one you described, am I wrong? (I think I'm 
+not able to go more forward, unfortunately :-( )
+
+> I would consider the data to be classified as asymmetric (or possibly
+> parallel?), synchronous, and static (data that does not change during
+> the runtime).
+Are you opposing asymetric and synchronous? So that we can recall 
+synchronous "symetric" or asymetric "asynchronous"? I'm not sure to 
+understand...
+
+-- 
+tharibo@free.fr
+"Le temps ne fait rien à l'affaire, quand on est con, on-est-con !"
+-- Georges Brassens
+
+From ahoyt@packetport.com Tue Feb 19 18:31:55 2002
+Received: from smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (smtp2-out.mail.iamworld.net [204.91.241.117])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JHVsW89884
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:31:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from ahoyt@packetport.com)
+Received: from tony ([207.86.139.130])
+	by smtp2.mail.iamworld.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA12375
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:25:41 -0500 (EST)
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:25:42 -0500
+From: Tony Hoyt <ahoyt@packetport.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+Message-Id: <20020219122542.030b303e.ahoyt@packetport.com>
+In-Reply-To: <BB0314E4D73DD311BB3900105A09EE6B295AFE@SEOSUS3>
+References: <BB0314E4D73DD311BB3900105A09EE6B295AFE@SEOSUS3>
+Organization: PacketPort.com Inc.
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+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Wow, I'm actually an Activeworlds memeber as well, and I too have
+noticed that it's just not going to get any better anytime soon.  An AW
+like online project would be cool.  And if I was a better coder, I would
+have taken to Nel as well for such a project.  I wish you guys luck. 
+This could very well be cool.
+
+  Tony
+
+From davids@tower-mt.com Tue Feb 19 18:55:07 2002
+Received: from moto.micapeak.com (IDENT:0@moto.micapeak.com [206.96.184.128])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JHt4W91400
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:55:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from davids@tower-mt.com)
+Received: from dschmidt (nat-78.spk.ind.alcatel.com [207.53.175.78])
+	by moto.micapeak.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1JHmpl29357
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:48:51 -0800
+From: "David Schmidt" <davids@tower-mt.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] GNU/Linux status
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:45:38 -0800
+Message-ID: <NBBBKMFGLKBAMOCGOHAHOEPACPAA.davids@tower-mt.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+In-Reply-To: <1014130882.773.1.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Oh, so YOU were the one that logged off right after I logged in (I'm
+"Alydar").  <grin>
+
+I was using the standard snowballs2 data files and he was sitting up on a
+bluff.  Too bad the snowballs don't pile up after hitting him, or he'd have
+been buried!
+
+David Schmidt
+davids@tower-mt.com   http://www.tower-mt.com
+ICQ: 1457634               AIM: inetdavid
+
+ -----Original Message-----
+From: 	nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]  On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent:	Tuesday, February 19, 2002 7:01 AM
+To:	nel@nevrax.org
+Subject:	Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux status
+
+> 	I'll stay logged in itsalive.nevrax.org all night, you're
+> wellcome to send me some snowballs while I'm asleep (1840.00, -970.00,
+> -22.45).
+
+I was there : http://zerodeux.net/img/snowballs.jpg :)
+I see you already found the magic talisman that makes you fly 100 feets
+high (or maybe we miss a landscape ? ;))
+
+> 	I'd be interested to know what kind of frame rate people can
+> get. Please don't frustrate me with outstanding frame rates that
+> require proprietary software ;-)
+
+Sorry, it's displayed anyway :)
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From guillaume@morinfr.org Tue Feb 19 20:48:09 2002
+Received: from oyster.morinfr.org (oyster.morinfr.org [62.4.22.234])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JJm9W98622
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:48:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from guillaume@morinfr.org)
+Received: from guillaum by oyster.morinfr.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16dG9F-0000My-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:41:57 +0100
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:41:57 +0100
+From: Guillaume Morin <guillaume@morinfr.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux status
+Message-ID: <20020219194157.GA1400@morinfr.org>
+Mail-Followup-To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <15473.32361.431832.806321@inspiron.dachary.org> <1014130882.773.1.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Dans un message du 19 fév à 16:01, Vincent Caron écrivait :
+> I see you already found the magic talisman that makes you fly 100 feets
+> high (or maybe we miss a landscape ? ;))
+
+Looks that I have the landscape problem too. 
+
+http://bender.morinfr.org/~guillaum/shot_snow.png
+
+I use yesterday's CVS with Loic's viewport fix.
+
+Any magical recipes ?
+
+-- 
+Guillaume Morin <guillaume@morinfr.org>
+
+              Et si je suis bien que si j'ai bu, tant pis (Cornu)
+
+From Artillo5@cs.com Tue Feb 19 21:11:29 2002
+Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com (imo-r08.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.104])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JKBSW00269
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:11:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Artillo5@cs.com)
+Received: from Artillo5@cs.com
+	by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id d.49.18b08a86 (16118)
+	 for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:05:06 -0500 (EST)
+Received: from  netscape.com (mow-m03.webmail.aol.com [64.12.184.131]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v83.35) with ESMTP id MAILINID1210-0219150506; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:05:06 1900
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:05:05 -0500
+From: artillo5@cs.com
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] Nevrax software
+Message-ID: <1167693C.3A2193AD.00959A14@cs.com>
+X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I couldn't seem to find a link for downloading beta of this software... I am new to the list here. Are there any special requirements for running it on a Win98 machine, minimum graphics card required, etc? Any help would be much appreciated!
+
+Thanks!
+
+Brian Shores (aka Artillo)
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Tue Feb 19 23:48:22 2002
+Received: from relay-2v.club-internet.fr (relay-2v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.113])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1JMmMW10596
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:48:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns04v-3-3.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.62.3])
+	by relay-2v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C58616A5
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:42:11 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000a01c1b996$9506d350$033ec2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:41:33 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] snowball with mesa 4.0.1 in 3D software mode
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Ok i ve been able to compile nel3D opengl driver with mesa but ....
+when i execute snowball,  i have a fatal error while scene is updating  for
+the first time.
+
+I ve some Demo of mesa that have fatal error  so i think mistake is in mesa
+API. After having disable many Update fonction in the main loop of snowball,
+game is running ( with a few thing at screen :)  )  but at only 3 fps on a
+Intel III 600 Mhz.
+
+I wish i ll found a 3D card for my work PC and a better solution than Mesa.
+
+thanks for all.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 20 10:08:17 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1K98HW52105
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:08:17 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1K926n08485
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:02:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001f01c1b9ed$45a2f620$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <1167693C.3A2193AD.00959A14@cs.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Nevrax software
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:02:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+Hi Brian,
+
+> I couldn't seem to find a link for downloading beta of this software... I
+am new to the list here. Are there any special requirements for running it
+on a Win98 machine, minimum graphics card required, etc? Any help would be
+much appreciated!
+
+Normally, you need to compile sources and run the program, we don't provide
+official binaries, but you can find a Windows binary of this program
+(snowballs2) in my home page (http://ace.planet-d.net) but it s totally
+unofficial.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Feb 20 16:19:11 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1KFJ9W76487
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:19:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16dYQE-0005w5-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:12:42 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Message-ID: <15475.48361.735753.544068@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:12:41 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	The lowercase/uppercase pitfall is never old fashioned, it seems ;-)
+
+	Try this in data/zones:
+
+	for i in *zonel ; do  mv $i `echo $i | tr "[A-Z]" "[a-z]"` ; done 
+
+	and launch the game. 
+
+	The most disturbing aspect of this bug is that the zone manager is
+perfectly happy when it is asked to load a zone that does not match an 
+actual file. 
+
+	I was first tempted to throw an exception. However, the high number
+of non existent zones for which a load attempt is done stopped me ;-) 
+
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_al.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_ak.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_am.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_aj.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_an.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_al.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_ak.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_am.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_ai.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_ao.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_aj.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_an.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_al.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_ak.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_am.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_ai.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_ao.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_ah.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_ap.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_aj.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_an.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_al.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_ah.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_ap.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_ai.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_ao.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_al.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_ak.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_am.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_ak.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_am.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_aj.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_an.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_ag.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_aq.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_aj.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_an.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_ah.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_ap.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_ai.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_ao.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_ag.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_aq.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_ai.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_ao.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_al.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_al.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_ak.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_am.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_ak.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_am.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_aj.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_an.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_af.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/9_ar.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_aj.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_an.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_ah.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_ap.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_ag.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_aq.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_ah.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_ap.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_ai.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_ao.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_af.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/10_ar.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_ai.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_ao.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_ag.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_aq.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_ag.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_aq.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_ah.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_ap.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_af.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/11_ar.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_ah.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_ap.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_ag.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_aq.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_af.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/2_ar.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_af.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/12_ar.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_ag.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_aq.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_af.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/1_ar.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_af.zonel
+DBG23097 zone_manager.cpp 236 : file not found: data/zones/13_ar.zonel
+
+	To the very least, I suggest that a debug message is issued. 
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.4
+diff -u -r1.4 zone_manager.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp	28 Aug 2001 11:39:11 -0000	1.4
++++ nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp	20 Feb 2002 15:14:41 -0000
+@@ -233,6 +233,7 @@
+ 	}
+ 	else
+ 	{
++		nldebug("file not found: %s", zonePath.c_str ());
+ 		_Lz->FileNotFound = true;
+ 		delete _Zm->Zone;
+ 	}
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Feb 20 16:35:29 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1KFZTW77527
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:35:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16dYg6-0005wm-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:29:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15475.49345.499839.564662@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:29:05 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Hit me
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I'm online. Someone dares to come and hit me ?
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 20 16:44:37 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1KFibW78174
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:44:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1KFcQn13488
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:38:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007f01c1ba24$a33f53f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15475.48361.735753.544068@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:38:26 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+You are right. The CPath system manage correctly the case but zone_manger
+doesn't use CPath so the problem occurs...
+In fact, the data are ok, bit the code will search the good file name, the
+standard is N_LL.zonel where N is the line and LL is the row with majuscule
+(AA is the first row)
+You just to change in src/3d/zone_search.cpp 'a' into 'A' like that:
+
+ char firstLetter = zoneX / 26 + 'A';
+ char secondLetter = zoneX % 26 + 'A';
+
+Or wait the next cvs sync this night.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From info@multimediastudio.com Wed Feb 20 17:10:33 2002
+Received: from e-nvelop.com (216-236-192-166.newskies.net [216.236.192.166] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g1KGAGW80047
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:10:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from info@multimediastudio.com)
+Message-Id: <200202201610.g1KGAGW80047@www.nevrax.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: "Manish  Gajria" <info@multimediastudio.com>
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:54:42
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
+Subject: [Nel] slash web design and development costs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+<html>
+<head>
+<title>Multimedia Studio - Communication | Interaction | Experience</title>
+<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
+</head>
+
+<body bgcolor="#000000" text="#000000" leftmargin="5" topmargin="5" marginwidth="5" marginheight="5">
+<table width="550" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff"> 
+      <table width="545" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="537" valign="bottom"><a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/" target="site"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/logous1.gif" width="250" height="54" border="0"></a></td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="537" valign="top" height="40"><a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/cie.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/cieus1.gif" width="250" height="18" border="0"></a></td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/cuttop.gif" width="395" height="78"></td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/cutbot.gif" width="412" height="78"></td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"> 
+      <table width="346" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#ff0000">In 
+            today's damp economic climate, with Web project budgets under increasing 
+            scrutiny, many companies are feeling the fiscal chill. Innovative 
+            managers and project champions are seeking ways of cost cutting on 
+            Web initiatives without compromising on quality and the final user 
+            experience. We understand that companies passionate about their brands, 
+            products and services will never compromise, leave alone short term 
+            savings or strategies.<br>
+            <br>
+            Today, decisions regarding your Web initiatives will influence your 
+            bottom line whatever the impending economic conditions. However, well 
+            judged decisions and judicious spending could see you weather any 
+            economic furor. </font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff"> 
+      <table width="545" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#ff0000">What's 
+            the way out</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><b>Our 
+            Work </b></font><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666"><br>
+            A company is constantly judged by the work it produces. This is where 
+            its philosophy, methodology and culture are wrapped in one statement. 
+            To See the versatility, style and powerful experiences embodied in 
+            the Multimedia Studio portfolio <a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/newsportfolio.html" target="_blank"><font color="#000066">click 
+            here</font></a>.<br>
+            </font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td rowspan="2" valign="top" width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">It 
+            is difficult to find a partner able to deliver effective and functional 
+            services and solutions at reduced costs. Multimedia Studio is an experience 
+            design company delivering result-oriented solutions for Web and other 
+            interactive media such as Web sites, intranets, extranets, and e-mail 
+            marketing campaigns. Since the inception of the Internet, we have 
+            proven ourselves time and again to clients such as Mercedes Benz, 
+            Dresdner Bank, Prudential, IBM, Motorola, Wipro Technologies, MindTree 
+            Consulting, 24/7 Customer.com, Ittiam Systems, and EuroRSCG to name 
+            a few.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td rowspan="3" valign="bottom" width="176"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/man.gif" width="59" height="66"></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#ff0000">Cut 
+            Costs without Compromise</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><b>Our 
+            Methodology</b></font><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666"> 
+            <br>
+            Cost effective solutions are driven by structure. Being organized 
+            helps focus on the big picture, which is the reason we have a systematic 
+            process in place that includes defining the job to following-up after 
+            delivery. Setting goals, achieving them and keeping the clients informed 
+            and involved from start to finish helps make the solution unique and 
+            powerful.<br>
+            <a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/msl-methodology.pdf" target="_blank"><font color="#000066">Know 
+            more</font><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/pdf.gif" width="16" height="16" align="texttop" border="0" hspace="4"></a></font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Reduced 
+            costs do not necessarily mean sub-standard deliverables or compromises. 
+            Cost cutting is about an effective methodology coupled with a flexible 
+            distributed development model. It is about efficiency. In fact, that&#146;s 
+            why businesses and individuals started using technology and the Web 
+            in the first place. We follow the industry best practices and processes 
+            as any reputed Internet consultancy, interactive agency, or integrated 
+            marketing firm across the globe. Furthermore our methodology is fine-tuned 
+            to adapt to the distributed onsite-offshore development model.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#ff0000">The 
+            Way We Do It</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" valign="top"> 
+            <table width="176" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+              <tr> 
+                <td height="12" colspan="2"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#ff0000"><b>But 
+                  You Knew</b></font></td>
+              </tr>
+              <tr> 
+                <td width="10" valign="top"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/bullet.gif" width="5" height="5" vspace="4"></td>
+                <td valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666">More 
+                  than 50% of the Fortune 500 companies have used offshore services 
+                  of Indian companies for Internet and software solutions.</font></td>
+              </tr>
+              <tr> 
+                <td width="10" align="left" valign="top" height="10"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/spacer.gif" width="1" height="1"></td>
+                <td valign="top" height="10"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/spacer.gif" width="1" height="1"></td>
+              </tr>
+              <tr> 
+                <td width="10" align="left" valign="top"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/bullet.gif" width="5" height="5" vspace="4"></td>
+                <td valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666">Most 
+                  of the Big 5, major software, Internet and technology consulting 
+                  firms, such as PwC, EDS, KPMG, Sapient, Cambridge Technology 
+                  Partners, Scient, Microsoft, IBM, and Oracle, have offshore 
+                  development centers in India. Even this list is growing every 
+                  day... </font></td>
+              </tr>
+            </table>
+          </td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">We 
+            use the distributed development model to reduce design and development 
+            costs of Web projects. This means, we execute only critical project 
+            activities like initial research, consulting, strategy, and user testing 
+            at our client&#146;s location in the US or Europe. Subsequent to having 
+            established a project plan onsite, we shift the design and development 
+            of the project to our offshore development center in India, which 
+            is a cost efficient geography. This translates into reduced costs, 
+            the benefits of which are directly conceded to our clients. Eventually, 
+            a win-win situation.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr>
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="30">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/30-35.gif" width="442" height="72" vspace="2"></td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"> 
+      <table width="346" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td align="right" width="68"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">visit 
+            us at:&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>
+          <td align="left" width="278"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/home.html" target="site"><font color="#000066">www.multimediastudio.com</font></a></font></td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="68" align="right"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">mail:&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>
+          <td width="281" align="left"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><a href="mailto:info@multimediastudio.com?subject=Request%20for%20Info"><font color="#000066">info@multimediastudio.com</font></a></font></td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="35">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right">
+      <table width="346" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-2" color="#cccccc">This 
+            message has been sent to you in compliance with anti-spam regulations. 
+            You are receiving this email because you registered on our site or 
+            one of our partner sites and agreed to receive special offers that 
+            may be of interest to you. If you do not wish to receive further mailings, 
+            please <a href="mailto:unsubscribe@e-nvelop.com?subject=Unsubscribe">click 
+            here</a> to unsubscribe. Please accept our apologies if we have inconvenienced 
+            you in any way. This message was sent by <a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org&campaign=18&url=http://www.e-nvelop.com/" target="_blank">e&#8211nvelop.com</a>. 
+            This message is an advertisement.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+</table><IMG height=1 src="http://e-nvelop.com/work/gif.php?email=nel@nevrax.org&campaign=18" width=1></body></html>
+
+From info@multimediastudio.com Wed Feb 20 17:10:41 2002
+Received: from e-nvelop.com (216-236-192-166.newskies.net [216.236.192.166] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g1KGAGW80046
+	for <nel@nevrax.org.>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:10:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from info@multimediastudio.com)
+Message-Id: <200202201610.g1KGAGW80046@www.nevrax.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: "Manish  Gajria" <info@multimediastudio.com>
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:54:42
+Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
+Subject: [Nel] slash web design and development costs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+<html>
+<head>
+<title>Multimedia Studio - Communication | Interaction | Experience</title>
+<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
+</head>
+
+<body bgcolor="#000000" text="#000000" leftmargin="5" topmargin="5" marginwidth="5" marginheight="5">
+<table width="550" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff"> 
+      <table width="545" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="537" valign="bottom"><a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org.&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/" target="site"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/logous1.gif" width="250" height="54" border="0"></a></td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="537" valign="top" height="40"><a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org.&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/cie.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/cieus1.gif" width="250" height="18" border="0"></a></td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/cuttop.gif" width="395" height="78"></td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/cutbot.gif" width="412" height="78"></td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"> 
+      <table width="346" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="#ff0000">In 
+            today's damp economic climate, with Web project budgets under increasing 
+            scrutiny, many companies are feeling the fiscal chill. Innovative 
+            managers and project champions are seeking ways of cost cutting on 
+            Web initiatives without compromising on quality and the final user 
+            experience. We understand that companies passionate about their brands, 
+            products and services will never compromise, leave alone short term 
+            savings or strategies.<br>
+            <br>
+            Today, decisions regarding your Web initiatives will influence your 
+            bottom line whatever the impending economic conditions. However, well 
+            judged decisions and judicious spending could see you weather any 
+            economic furor. </font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff"> 
+      <table width="545" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#ff0000">What's 
+            the way out</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><b>Our 
+            Work </b></font><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666"><br>
+            A company is constantly judged by the work it produces. This is where 
+            its philosophy, methodology and culture are wrapped in one statement. 
+            To See the versatility, style and powerful experiences embodied in 
+            the Multimedia Studio portfolio <a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org.&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/newsportfolio.html" target="_blank"><font color="#000066">click 
+            here</font></a>.<br>
+            </font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td rowspan="2" valign="top" width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">It 
+            is difficult to find a partner able to deliver effective and functional 
+            services and solutions at reduced costs. Multimedia Studio is an experience 
+            design company delivering result-oriented solutions for Web and other 
+            interactive media such as Web sites, intranets, extranets, and e-mail 
+            marketing campaigns. Since the inception of the Internet, we have 
+            proven ourselves time and again to clients such as Mercedes Benz, 
+            Dresdner Bank, Prudential, IBM, Motorola, Wipro Technologies, MindTree 
+            Consulting, 24/7 Customer.com, Ittiam Systems, and EuroRSCG to name 
+            a few.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td rowspan="3" valign="bottom" width="176"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/man.gif" width="59" height="66"></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#ff0000">Cut 
+            Costs without Compromise</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><b>Our 
+            Methodology</b></font><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666"> 
+            <br>
+            Cost effective solutions are driven by structure. Being organized 
+            helps focus on the big picture, which is the reason we have a systematic 
+            process in place that includes defining the job to following-up after 
+            delivery. Setting goals, achieving them and keeping the clients informed 
+            and involved from start to finish helps make the solution unique and 
+            powerful.<br>
+            <a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org.&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/msl-methodology.pdf" target="_blank"><font color="#000066">Know 
+            more</font><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/pdf.gif" width="16" height="16" align="texttop" border="0" hspace="4"></a></font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Reduced 
+            costs do not necessarily mean sub-standard deliverables or compromises. 
+            Cost cutting is about an effective methodology coupled with a flexible 
+            distributed development model. It is about efficiency. In fact, that&#146;s 
+            why businesses and individuals started using technology and the Web 
+            in the first place. We follow the industry best practices and processes 
+            as any reputed Internet consultancy, interactive agency, or integrated 
+            marketing firm across the globe. Furthermore our methodology is fine-tuned 
+            to adapt to the distributed onsite-offshore development model.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15" height="25">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="4" color="#ff0000">The 
+            Way We Do It</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="8">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="176" valign="top"> 
+            <table width="176" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+              <tr> 
+                <td height="12" colspan="2"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#ff0000"><b>But 
+                  You Knew</b></font></td>
+              </tr>
+              <tr> 
+                <td width="10" valign="top"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/bullet.gif" width="5" height="5" vspace="4"></td>
+                <td valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666">More 
+                  than 50% of the Fortune 500 companies have used offshore services 
+                  of Indian companies for Internet and software solutions.</font></td>
+              </tr>
+              <tr> 
+                <td width="10" align="left" valign="top" height="10"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/spacer.gif" width="1" height="1"></td>
+                <td valign="top" height="10"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/spacer.gif" width="1" height="1"></td>
+              </tr>
+              <tr> 
+                <td width="10" align="left" valign="top"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/bullet.gif" width="5" height="5" vspace="4"></td>
+                <td valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1" color="#666666">Most 
+                  of the Big 5, major software, Internet and technology consulting 
+                  firms, such as PwC, EDS, KPMG, Sapient, Cambridge Technology 
+                  Partners, Scient, Microsoft, IBM, and Oracle, have offshore 
+                  development centers in India. Even this list is growing every 
+                  day... </font></td>
+              </tr>
+            </table>
+          </td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+          <td width="331" valign="top"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">We 
+            use the distributed development model to reduce design and development 
+            costs of Web projects. This means, we execute only critical project 
+            activities like initial research, consulting, strategy, and user testing 
+            at our client&#146;s location in the US or Europe. Subsequent to having 
+            established a project plan onsite, we shift the design and development 
+            of the project to our offshore development center in India, which 
+            is a cost efficient geography. This translates into reduced costs, 
+            the benefits of which are directly conceded to our clients. Eventually, 
+            a win-win situation.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr>
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="30">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"><img src="http://www.multimediastudio.com/edm/us/images/30-35.gif" width="442" height="72" vspace="2"></td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right"> 
+      <table width="346" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td align="right" width="68"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">visit 
+            us at:&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>
+          <td align="left" width="278"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org.&campaign=18&url=http://www.multimediastudio.com/home.html" target="site"><font color="#000066">www.multimediastudio.com</font></a></font></td>
+        </tr>
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="68" align="right"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">mail:&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>
+          <td width="281" align="left"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1"><a href="mailto:info@multimediastudio.com?subject=Request%20for%20Info"><font color="#000066">info@multimediastudio.com</font></a></font></td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" height="35">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff" align="right">
+      <table width="346" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
+        <tr> 
+          <td width="331"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-2" color="#cccccc">This 
+            message has been sent to you in compliance with anti-spam regulations. 
+            You are receiving this email because you registered on our site or 
+            one of our partner sites and agreed to receive special offers that 
+            may be of interest to you. If you do not wish to receive further mailings, 
+            please <a href="mailto:unsubscribe@e-nvelop.com?subject=Unsubscribe">click 
+            here</a> to unsubscribe. Please accept our apologies if we have inconvenienced 
+            you in any way. This message was sent by <a href="http://e-nvelop.com/work/redir.php?email=nel@nevrax.org.&campaign=18&url=http://www.e-nvelop.com/" target="_blank">e&#8211nvelop.com</a>. 
+            This message is an advertisement.</font></td>
+          <td width="15">&nbsp;</td>
+        </tr>
+      </table>
+    </td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+  <tr> 
+    <td width="545" bgcolor="#ffffff">&nbsp;</td>
+    <td width="5" bgcolor="#ff0000">&nbsp;</td>
+  </tr>
+</table><IMG height=1 src="http://e-nvelop.com/work/gif.php?email=nel@nevrax.org.&campaign=18" width=1></body></html>
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Wed Feb 20 17:31:07 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1KGV7W81682
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:31:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1KGOun14310;
+	Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:24:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: "Valignat Cedric" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:24:56 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFKEMGCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+Subject: [Nel] SPAM :o(
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Sorry for the spam - Each time we get hit by junk mail we add the given
+addresses to the mailing list's exclusion list - I guess this is another one
+for the pile
+
+(Affraid we haven't found a fix to our problem with automatic exclusion)
+
+regards
+Daniel
+
+
+From tanis@mediacom.it Wed Feb 20 17:37:28 2002
+Received: from digi-web.it (80.64-26.27.110.62.in-addr.arpa [62.110.27.80] (may be forged))
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g1KGbRW82204
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:37:27 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from tanis@mediacom.it)
+Received: (qmail 5837 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 17:12:03 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO valerio) (172.16.69.2)
+  by mail.digisoft.local with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 17:12:03 -0000
+Message-ID: <109101c1ba2b$fdbe1ee0$024510ac@valerio>
+From: "Valerio Santinelli" <tanis@mediacom.it>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFKEMGCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] SPAM :o(
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:31:04 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Upgrade Mailman and turn on subscribers-only postings ;)
+(I know I already said that, but I cannot really stand spam).
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: "Valignat Cedric" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:24 PM
+Subject: [Nel] SPAM :o(
+
+
+> Sorry for the spam - Each time we get hit by junk mail we add the given
+> addresses to the mailing list's exclusion list - I guess this is another
+one
+> for the pile
+>
+> (Affraid we haven't found a fix to our problem with automatic exclusion)
+>
+> regards
+> Daniel
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+>
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Wed Feb 20 18:31:11 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1KHVAW86473
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:31:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1KHP0n15247
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:25:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:25:00 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEMICDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+Subject: [Nel] I hope this works!...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+We've just reactivated the 'only members are allowed to post to the list'
+option on the mailing list - if you see strange behaviour please be patient
+and we'll try to sort it out
+
+fingers crossed
+
+Daniel
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Feb 20 20:33:47 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (ATuileries-104-1-2-216.abo.wanadoo.fr [217.128.211.216])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1KJXlW96061
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:33:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16dcOi-0000Lt-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:27:24 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15475.63644.415274.192363@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:27:24 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+In-Reply-To: Vianney Lecroart's message of 20 February 2002 16:38:26 +0100
+References: <15475.48361.735753.544068@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<007f01c1ba24$a33f53f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ > Hi,
+ > 
+ > You are right. The CPath system manage correctly the case but zone_manger
+ > doesn't use CPath so the problem occurs...
+ > In fact, the data are ok, bit the code will search the good file name, the
+ > standard is N_LL.zonel where N is the line and LL is the row with majuscule
+ > (AA is the first row)
+ > You just to change in src/3d/zone_search.cpp 'a' into 'A' like that:
+ > 
+ >  char firstLetter = zoneX / 26 + 'A';
+ >  char secondLetter = zoneX % 26 + 'A';
+ > 
+ > Or wait the next cvs sync this night.
+
+	Swell. I'll wait for the sync. 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Wed Feb 20 20:37:12 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1KJbBW96412
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:37:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1KJV1n16487
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:31:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] contrib et fix
+Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:31:00 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEMNCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="us-ascii"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+In-Reply-To: <15473.23506.341278.819376@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+OK - What you propose sounds sensible to me - do you have a standard
+agreement somewhere that you recommend?
+
+Daniel
+
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Loic Dachary
+Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:54 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] contrib et fix
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ >
+ > I know that there is a difference between a contribution (a large patch)
+and
+ > a fix, but I would like to know if there are official Doc.
+ > which spoke the limit between the 2.  If somebody gives us a patch of 15
+ > lines, is a this fix or a contrib?  Is the limit fixed by a number of
+line?
+ > If so, where is the limit? Is there a URL which speaks about that?
+ >
+
+	AFAIK, the 15 lines of code threshold is informal and based on
+past judgements. It could be argued that this is an urban legend (internet
+legend ?-). I could ask for confirmation to a lawyer if this is important.
+I have no reference URL handy.
+
+	This limit is important when a developer or a company needs to
+make sure it is the sole copyright holder of the software. This is the
+best way to make sure a Free Software can be properly defended when/if
+a license violation occurs. Being the single copyright holder puts you
+in the best position to negotiate with the violator so that she
+complies to the license terms. Multiplying the copyright holders of a
+given software is a technique to prevent a Free Software to become
+proprietary but is rather inefficient to enforce the license if needs
+be.
+
+	If it's not already the case, it would be good that
+contributors to nel assign copyright to Nevrax, much in the same way
+as contributors assign copyright to the FSF. Of course, when a
+contributor to GNU Emacs (for instance) assigns copyright to the FSF
+for her work, the FSF makes a written promise to release the
+contribution under a Free Software license.  This is a fair system
+that Nevrax could use for nel. Of course, you don't want to bother
+about copyright assignment with every contributor who provides only a
+few lines and this is where the 15 lines threshold helps you.
+
+	When nel becomes widely used, I guess Nevrax will need to
+handle significant contributions and a few violators. The fact that
+nel is released under the GNU GPL (instead of the GNU LGPL for
+instance) helps. It is *a lot* harder to convince violators on GNU
+LGPL'ed code. When someone (note that I do not say if someone ;-)
+expands nel and distribute the result without the corresponding source
+code, it won't take more than a few weeks to convince her to comply.
+As it turns out, the GNU GPL is the only license that is efficient
+to protect a Free Software company business.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+--
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb 21 09:51:06 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1L8p6W59602
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:51:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16doqJ-0000i2-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:44:43 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:44:43 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Yesterday night the player "Thas" was on
+itsalive.nevrax.org. He (or she ?-) said to run snowballs on GNU/Linux
+with landscape at 12fps on a G400 / PIII733, using the Free Software
+drivers provided with XFree-4.2 (not the binary proprietary drivers
+you can get gratis on the matrox site).
+
+	I did not have a chance to ask what client.cfg he is using,
+the output of glxinfo, if he was displaying the Nel logo or not and I
+can't remember if he had snow (although that does not seem to impact
+performances). Given that I only have 8fps on a Radeon 7500 / PIII450,
+I guess his experience could help me improve the fps on my side.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From robertm@oja.homeip.net Thu Feb 21 10:31:55 2002
+Received: from oja.homeip.net (213-145-169-238.dd.nextgentel.com [213.145.169.238])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1L9VnW63068
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:31:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robertm@oja.homeip.net)
+Received: by oja.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 502)
+	id CE0C346FCB; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:24:09 +0100 (CET)
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:24:09 -0700
+From: "Robert J. Macomber" <robertm@rojoma.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+Message-ID: <20020221092409.GA4860@lintor>
+References: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+In-Reply-To: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org>
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 09:44:43AM +0100, Loic Dachary wrote:
+> 	Yesterday night the player "Thas" was on
+> itsalive.nevrax.org. He (or she ?-) said to run snowballs on GNU/Linux
+> with landscape at 12fps on a G400 / PIII733, using the Free Software
+> drivers provided with XFree-4.2 (not the binary proprietary drivers
+> you can get gratis on the matrox site).
+
+Yes, that was me.
+
+> 	I did not have a chance to ask what client.cfg he is using,
+
+Straight out of CVS (i.e., 800x600 windowed, no fog, etc.), though I
+did do a "/tilenear 0.1" in-game.
+
+> the output of glxinfo,
+
+Appended at the end of this email.
+
+>                        if he was displaying the Nel logo or not
+
+No, I commented it out of the client.
+
+>                                                                 and I
+> can't remember if he had snow (although that does not seem to impact
+> performances).
+
+I didn't see any snow.  Well, I did, but not the falling sort.
+
+--begin glxinfo output--
+name of display: :0.0
+display: :0  screen: 0
+direct rendering: Yes
+server glx vendor string: SGI
+server glx version string: 1.2
+server glx extensions:
+    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
+client glx vendor string: SGI
+client glx version string: 1.2
+client glx extensions:
+    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
+GLX extensions:
+    GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
+OpenGL vendor string: VA Linux Systems Inc.
+OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI G400 20010622 AGP 4x x86/MMX/SSE
+OpenGL version string: 1.2 Mesa 3.4.2
+OpenGL extensions:
+    GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_EXT_abgr, 
+    GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, 
+    GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_histogram,
+GL_EXT_packed_pixels, 
+    GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, 
+    GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_texture_object, 
+    GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_MESA_window_pos, GL_MESA_resize_buffers, 
+    GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_PGI_misc_hints, GL_SGIS_pixel_texture, 
+    GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp
+glu version: 1.2 Mesa 3.2
+glu extensions:
+    GL_EXT_abgr
+--end glxinfo output, with the visuals info snipped since it wouldn't
+be interesting to someone with a different card--
+-- 
+Robert Macomber
+robertm@rojoma.com
+
+From Alain.Dutech@loria.fr Thu Feb 21 10:46:57 2002
+Received: from lorraine.loria.fr (lorraine.loria.fr [152.81.1.17])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1L9kvW64403
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:46:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Alain.Dutech@loria.fr)
+Received: from bar.loria.fr (bar.loria.fr [152.81.2.13])
+	by lorraine.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3/JCG-DG) with ESMTP id KAA18991
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:40:45 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3C74C09D.50CF4FD9@loria.fr>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:40:45 +0100
+From: Alain Dutech <Alain.Dutech@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org> <20020221092409.GA4860@lintor>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello all,
+
+snowballs compiles fine (thanks to the last patches and contributions), I've downloaded
+the data (i.e : snowballs_data_0_2.tar.gz) and installed them but then, at exec time, I get:
+
+[dutech@crevic client]$ snowballs
+INF27483 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN27483 path.cpp 618 : CPath::insertFileInMap(Root, data/tiles/CVS/Root, 0, ): already inserted from 'data/CVS/Root',
+skip it
+WRN27483 path.cpp 618 : CPath::insertFileInMap(Repository, data/tiles/CVS/Repository, 0, ): already inserted from
+'data/CVS/Repository', skip it
+WRN27483 path.cpp 618 : CPath::insertFileInMap(Entries, data/tiles/CVS/Entries, 0, ): already inserted from
+'data/CVS/Entries', skip it
+WRN27483 path.cpp 618 : CPath::insertFileInMap(Root, data/zones/CVS/Root, 0, ): already inserted from 'data/CVS/Root',
+skip it
+WRN27483 path.cpp 618 : CPath::insertFileInMap(Repository, data/zones/CVS/Repository, 0, ): already inserted from
+'data/CVS/Repository', skip it
+WRN27483 path.cpp 618 : CPath::insertFileInMap(Entries, data/zones/CVS/Entries, 0, ): already inserted from
+'data/CVS/Entries', skip it
+WRN27483 path.cpp 557 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/fonts/n019003l.pfm, 0, ): file 'n019003l.pfm' already inserted in the
+map directory (location: data/n019003l.pfm)
+WRN27483 path.cpp 557 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/fonts/n019003l.pfb, 0, ): file 'n019003l.pfb' already inserted in the
+map directory (location: data/n019003l.pfb)
+WRN27483 path.cpp 557 : CPath::addSearchPath(data/fonts/n019003l.afm, 0, ): file 'n019003l.afm' already inserted in the
+map directory (location: data/n019003l.afm)
+WRN27483 driver_opengl.cpp 785 : Missing Important GL extension: GL_EXT_texture_env_combine => All envcombine are setup
+to GL_MODULATE!!!
+WRN27483 path.cpp 222 : CPath::lookup(nevrax.tga): file not found
+WRN27483 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched: Path not found for nevrax.tga
+WRN27483 texture_file.cpp 154 : Missing textureFile: nevrax.tga
+WRN27483 path.cpp 222 : CPath::lookup(3_AN.ig): file not found
+WRN27483 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched: Path not found for 3_AN.ig
+Abandon
+
+Any hints? I've checked almost everywhere and there's no "nevrax.tga" file nor any "*.ig" ones.
+Am I missing an obvious point here?
+
+Alain
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb 21 14:17:04 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (ATuileries-104-1-4-166.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.224.166])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LDH2W83074
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:17:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16dszf-0000Id-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:10:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="3CjBlUYs2k"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15476.61902.423458.451046@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:10:38 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: RE: [Nel] contrib and fix
+In-Reply-To: Daniel Miller's message of 20 February 2002 20:31:00 +0100
+References: <15473.23506.341278.819376@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEMNCDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+--3CjBlUYs2k
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: message body text
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Daniel Miller writes:
+ > OK - What you propose sounds sensible to me - do you have a standard
+ > agreement somewhere that you recommend?
+
+	Sure. You'll find attached to this mail a generic assignement
+fit for an individual contributor that I customized for Nevrax. 
+
+	You will also find a copyright assignment for my own work that
+I'm ready to sign as soon as you send it to me. It has to be printed
+on letterhead paper and you'll have to fill the name of Nevrax's CEO.
+The CEO needs to sign two copies of the letter, send both of them to
+me (address included in the assignment). I'll return one of them
+signed and we will be done with it ;-)
+
+	You may add the generic form to the nevrax.org web site along
+with the reasons why such an assignment is a good thing. I can provide
+a small standard explanation if you like.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+
+--3CjBlUYs2k
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+--3CjBlUYs2k
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: .signature
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+--3CjBlUYs2k--
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb 21 14:25:08 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (ATuileries-104-1-4-166.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.224.166])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LDP7W83800
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:25:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
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+Message-ID: <15476.62389.52904.505155@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:18:45 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+In-Reply-To: Robert J. Macomber's message of 21 February 2002 02:24:09 -0700
+References: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<20020221092409.GA4860@lintor>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+Robert J. Macomber writes:
+ > Straight out of CVS (i.e., 800x600 windowed, no fog, etc.), though I
+ > did do a "/tilenear 0.1" in-game.
+
+	I'll have to try that. I changed the value in client.cfg but did
+not try to do it in game.
+
+ > No, I commented it out of the client.
+
+	I'll have to see how many fps that wins.
+
+ > I didn't see any snow.  Well, I did, but not the falling sort.
+
+	Anyway it does not seem to make a big difference.
+
+ > --begin glxinfo output--
+
+	I guess that AGP 1x (that's me) against AGP 4x (that's you) +
+a CPU that is twice as fast as mine counts for something. 
+
+	Thanks for all these informations, it's good to see other
+people strugling with fps with Free Software ;-)
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb 21 17:59:11 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (ATuileries-104-1-4-166.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.224.166])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LGxAW03858
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:59:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
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+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Message-ID: <15477.9695.942895.553293@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:52:47 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+In-Reply-To: Alain Dutech's message of 21 February 2002 10:40:45 +0100
+References: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<20020221092409.GA4860@lintor>
+	<3C74C09D.50CF4FD9@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
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+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Alain Dutech writes:
+ > 
+ > Hello all,
+ > 
+ > snowballs compiles fine (thanks to the last patches and contributions), I've downloaded
+ > the data (i.e : snowballs_data_0_2.tar.gz) and installed them but then, at exec time, I get:
+
+	Try to get the latest data from http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs/
+
+	The http://www.nevrax.org/download/ page should be updated
+accordingly, IMHO.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Thu Feb 21 18:25:33 2002
+Received: from relay-2m.club-internet.fr (relay-2m.club-internet.fr [195.36.216.171])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LHPXW05159
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:25:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
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+	by relay-2m.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id AB30B170C
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:19:18 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000801c1bafb$47dd5610$b205c2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:14:39 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BB03.A138BA30"
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BB03.A138BA30
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Information :=20
+All the problem is that snowball use the opengl 1.2 extension.=20
+Why ?=20
+Because Microsoft system only include Opengl 1.1 and if you want to run =
+Opengl 1.2 program you need to download an Opengl driver of your 3D =
+accelerated card manufacturer.
+
+The problem if you dont have a 3D card , you 're never be able to =
+download one !!=20
+
+The solution is an API ( Mesa ) that implements all Opengl 1.2 and newly =
+1.2 sp=E9cification.
+
+So you have to download Mesa 4.0.1 version and compile librairie of =
+Mesa.
+
+After you have to compile nel 3D Opengl Driver but using Mesa API . How =
+?=20
+- change your include Opengl directory by Mesa Opengl include directory
+- add Mesa library directory
+- add Mesa library in Visual studio to the nel 3D Opengl  driver =
+project.
+
+Compile your nel 3D Opengl driver and had the nel3DOpengl Dll and mesa =
+DLL in snowbal game directory.
+
+Run and enjoy !!
+
+
+On my work PC station ( 64 Mo Ram and duron 600 mhz ) it run at least at =
+0,33 fps   :) but it run perfectly without any change in snowball code.
+
+
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BB03.A138BA30
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Information : </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All the problem is that snowball use =
+the opengl 1.2=20
+extension. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why ? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Because Microsoft system only include =
+Opengl 1.1=20
+and if you want to run Opengl 1.2 program you need to download an Opengl =
+driver=20
+of your 3D accelerated card manufacturer.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem if you dont have a 3D card =
+, you 're=20
+never be able to download one !! </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The solution is an API ( Mesa ) that =
+implements all=20
+Opengl 1.2 and newly 1.2 sp=E9cification.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So you have to download Mesa 4.0.1 =
+version and=20
+compile librairie of Mesa.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After you have to compile nel 3D Opengl =
+Driver but=20
+using Mesa API . How ? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-&nbsp;change&nbsp;your&nbsp;include =
+Opengl=20
+directory by Mesa Opengl include directory</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- add Mesa library =
+directory</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- add&nbsp;Mesa library in =
+Visual&nbsp;studio to=20
+the nel 3D Opengl</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> driver=20
+project.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Compile your nel 3D Opengl driver and =
+had the=20
+nel3DOpengl Dll and mesa DLL in snowbal game directory.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Run and enjoy !!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On my work PC station ( 64 Mo Ram and =
+duron 600 mhz=20
+) it run at least at 0,33 fps&nbsp;&nbsp; :) but it run perfectly =
+without any=20
+change in snowball code.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BB03.A138BA30--
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Feb 21 18:39:42 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LHdfW05748
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:39:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1LHXUn26160
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:33:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008401c1bafd$e0776da0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org><20020221092409.GA4860@lintor><3C74C09D.50CF4FD9@loria.fr> <15477.9695.942895.553293@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball download
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:33:29 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+We fix the download page, now, the page  http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs
+is out of date and removed!
+
+All NeL, Snowballs and other nevrax.org related datas are here:
+http://www.nevrax.org/download/
+
+For Snowballs data, erase the data directories before depacking new datas
+
+Regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb 21 23:25:34 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LMPXW11398
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:25:33 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16e1YT-0000Cx-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:19:09 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:19:09 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Particule assert
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I have a constant flow of the following:
+
+AST 3039 particle_system.cpp 169 : "retValue >= 0 && retValue < 10000" dist = 0.000000, _MaxViewDist = 200.000000, _MaxNumFacesWanted = 10000, retValue = 10000.000000
+
+	with todays CVS compiled, on GNU/Linux. The game is otherwise working
+fine, including the particle system.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Fri Feb 22 01:25:14 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1M0PDW13353
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:25:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16e3QJ-0000Kj-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:18:51 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15477.36458.783438.572415@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:18:50 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] itsdead.nevrax.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Yes, apparently itsalive.nevrax.org is dead. Not pinging.
+My poor gnu won't sleep in the snow tonight. Mooooooh.
+
+	If you find it convenient, I can send you the ideal configuration
+for a remote manageable server (powerswitch + powerboot + terminal server
++ server + manageable switch). I'm sure nel fans would be more than happy
+to help you maintain the demo server on a 24/7h basis.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From Alain.Dutech@loria.fr Fri Feb 22 09:05:43 2002
+Received: from lorraine.loria.fr (lorraine.loria.fr [152.81.1.17])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1M85gW23872
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:05:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Alain.Dutech@loria.fr)
+Received: from bar.loria.fr (bar.loria.fr [152.81.2.13])
+	by lorraine.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3/JCG-DG) with ESMTP id IAA29148
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:31 +0100 (MET)
+Received: from loria.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1])
+	by bar.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3-client/JCG) with ESMTP id IAA18552
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:30 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3C75FA62.75CC6E3D@loria.fr>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:59:30 +0100
+From: Alain Dutech <Alain.Dutech@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball download
+References: <15476.45947.377395.983567@inspiron.dachary.org><20020221092409.GA4860@lintor><3C74C09D.50CF4FD9@loria.fr> <15477.9695.942895.553293@inspiron.dachary.org> <008401c1bafd$e0776da0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Thanks, it is better (but not quite running) with the new data.
+
+Alain
+
+
+From Alain.Dutech@loria.fr Fri Feb 22 09:12:06 2002
+Received: from lorraine.loria.fr (lorraine.loria.fr [152.81.1.17])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1M8C6W24014
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:12:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Alain.Dutech@loria.fr)
+Received: from bar.loria.fr (bar.loria.fr [152.81.2.13])
+	by lorraine.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3/JCG-DG) with ESMTP id JAA29468
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:05:51 +0100 (MET)
+Received: from loria.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1])
+	by bar.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3-client/JCG) with ESMTP id JAA18828
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:05:33 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:05:32 +0100
+From: Alain Dutech <Alain.Dutech@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Particule assert
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello,
+
+still have 3 problems to solve :
+
+- constant flow of :
+AST12088 particle_system.cpp 169 : "retValue >= 0 && retValue < 10000" dist = 0.000000, _MaxViewDist = 200.000000,
+_MaxNumFacesWanted = 10000, retValue = 10000.000000
+
+- constant flow of :
+AST12088 debug.h 384 : "dynamic_cast<T>(o)"
+
+- unreadable text (white squares) in the snowball window...
+
+Wish I had more time...
+
+Alain
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Fri Feb 22 11:09:06 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MA96W26222
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:09:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16eCXL-0000CG-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:02:43 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15478.5954.781447.858445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:02:42 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Particule assert
+In-Reply-To: Alain Dutech's message of 22 February 2002 09:05:32 +0100
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Alain Dutech writes:
+ > 
+ > Hello,
+ > 
+ > still have 3 problems to solve :
+ > 
+ > - constant flow of :
+ > AST12088 particle_system.cpp 169 : "retValue >= 0 && retValue < 10000" dist = 0.000000, _MaxViewDist = 200.000000,
+ > _MaxNumFacesWanted = 10000, retValue = 10000.000000
+ > 
+ > - constant flow of :
+ > AST12088 debug.h 384 : "dynamic_cast<T>(o)"
+ > 
+ > - unreadable text (white squares) in the snowball window...
+ > 
+ > Wish I had more time...
+
+	:-) Could you please describe your configuration ? STL version, 
+operating system etc.
+
+	For the record I'm using the CVS tree of yesterday and STL-4.5
+under Debian GNU/Linux unstable. The text is readable and I do not see
+the dynamic_cast<T>(o) asserts. But I do see the particle assert.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From Alain.Dutech@loria.fr Fri Feb 22 12:04:04 2002
+Received: from lorraine.loria.fr (lorraine.loria.fr [152.81.1.17])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MB44W27217
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:04:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Alain.Dutech@loria.fr)
+Received: from bar.loria.fr (bar.loria.fr [152.81.2.13])
+	by lorraine.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3/JCG-DG) with ESMTP id LAA12857
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:57:51 +0100 (MET)
+Received: from loria.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1])
+	by bar.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3-client/JCG) with ESMTP id LAA22860
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:57:50 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3C76242E.EA25D7E6@loria.fr>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:57:50 +0100
+From: Alain Dutech <Alain.Dutech@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Particule assert
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org>
+		<3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr> <15478.5954.781447.858445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello again,
+
+Loic Dachary wrote:
+
+>         :-) Could you please describe your configuration ? STL version,
+> operating system etc.
+
+of course, I forgot to mention all that. So...
+
+Red Hat 7.1 GNU/Linux
+gcc version 2.96
+STLport version 4.5.1
+GL_VERSION: 1.2 Mesa 3.4
+GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI Voodoo3 20001101
+
+CVS tree of yesterday too (21/01/2002)
+
+>
+>         For the record I'm using the CVS tree of yesterday and STL-4.5
+> under Debian GNU/Linux unstable. The text is readable and I do not see
+> the dynamic_cast<T>(o) asserts.
+
+Lucky one
+
+> But I do see the particle assert.
+>
+
+Unlucky :-)
+
+>
+>         Cheers,
+>
+
+With sympathy
+Alain - Still compiling with full debug to know more....
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Fri Feb 22 12:37:44 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MBbiW27759
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:37:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16eDv7-0000GX-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:31:21 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15478.11272.598533.607495@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:31:20 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] More and less asserts
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	The asserts changed. The old disapeared (reported yesterday)
+and these appeared:
+
+AST 9049 bit_set.h 74 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+AST 9049 bit_set.h 74 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+
+	I'm using today's CVS with GNU/Linux, STL-4.5. Interestingly
+enough, the asserts do not *always* show. I relaunched the game once
+and they disapeared. Do you need me to track this down ?
+
+	Cheers,
+
+P.S. istalive is still dead to me.
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Fri Feb 22 12:40:21 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MBeLW27797
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:40:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16eDxe-0000Gc-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:33:58 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15478.11429.932085.337873@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:33:57 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Asserts (more information)
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	The following asserts show when I hit the caps lock key:
+
+AST 9065 bit_set.h 74 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+AST 9065 bit_set.h 86 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+
+	STL-4.5, Debian GNU/Linux, XFree-4.2, freetype2, gcc-2.95.4.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Feb 22 16:11:00 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MFB0W30928
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:11:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B16BB6E6
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:04:45 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Asserts (more information)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <15478.11429.932085.337873@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <15478.11429.932085.337873@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 22 Feb 2002 16:04:42 +0100
+Message-Id: <1014390282.827.5.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 12:33, Loic Dachary wrote:
+> 
+> 
+> 	The following asserts show when I hit the caps lock key:
+> 
+> AST 9065 bit_set.h 74 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+> AST 9065 bit_set.h 86 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+
+I'm experiencing the same ones. Vianney asked me to track them down but
+I don't have a debug versions of the libs (I need to make some space on
+my hard drives), and what's worse no free time these days ...
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Fri Feb 22 18:12:31 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (ATuileries-104-1-2-18.abo.wanadoo.fr [217.128.211.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MHCVW32743
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:12:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16eJ96-0000Nh-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:06:08 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15478.31359.724198.684671@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:06:07 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Binary releases
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Would you be willing to host binary releases of Nel ? I could arrange
+for a tarbal of my own version to be available somewhere but I figured it
+would be more useful if you had a contrib-binaries directory or something
+on nevrax.org. 
+
+	What do you think ? 
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From pierre.amadio@libertysurf.fr Fri Feb 22 18:24:34 2002
+Received: from postfix2-2.free.fr (postfix2-2.free.fr [213.228.0.140])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MHOYW32936
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:24:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from pierre.amadio@libertysurf.fr)
+Received: from melmnest.melmoth.net (nas-cbv-3-137-171.dial.proxad.net [62.147.137.171])
+	by postfix2-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D365F822
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:18:22 +0100 (CET)
+Received: from melmoth by melmnest.melmoth.net with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16eJLA-00007F-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:18:36 +0100
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:18:35 +0100
+From: Pierre Amadio <pierre.amadio@libertysurf.fr>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Binary releases
+Message-ID: <20020222181835.A439@libertysurf.fr>
+References: <15478.31359.724198.684671@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
+In-Reply-To: <15478.31359.724198.684671@inspiron.dachary.org>; from loic@gnu.org on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 06:06:07PM +0100
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: pierre.amadio@libertysurf.fr
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi there.
+
+> 	Would you be willing to host binary releases of Nel ? I could arrange
+> for a tarbal of my own version to be available somewhere but I figured it
+> would be more useful if you had a contrib-binaries directory or something
+> on nevrax.org. 
+> 
+> 	What do you think ? 
+
+A .deb would be really nice :) 
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Fri Feb 22 20:30:01 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (ATuileries-104-1-2-18.abo.wanadoo.fr [217.128.211.18])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1MJU0W46653
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:30:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16eLI9-0000Tx-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:23:37 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15478.39609.843495.243607@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:23:37 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Nel binaries
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I'm willing to prepare a binary directory for Nel. I'm even willing
+to gather binaries for non free software operating systems (*g*). I already
+put the STL + nel + snowballs2 for Debian GNU/Linux on my machine. If people
+are willing to send recent compilation for other operating systems (by mail
+to loic@senga.org please, no mail size limit or by providing a temporary URL
+somewhere), I'll sort that out. Please specify the compilation date + as
+many informations as possible on the system configuration.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Sat Feb 23 21:39:31 2002
+Received: from freyja.in-orbit.net (w002.z064002027.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.27.2])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1NKdVW22006
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 21:39:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur.in-orbit.net ([64.2.27.3] helo=thor)
+	by freyja.in-orbit.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16einC-0001DO-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:29:14 -0800
+Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:36:42 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
+Message-Id: <E16einC-0001DO-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+Subject: [Nel] invisible users
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+greetings,
+
+The engine is coming along beautifully! Thanks again for all your hard work.
+
+I've been experiencing a hard-to-trace problem for a while which I thought was in our own code, but which I now have 
+reason to believe is in yours.
+Sometimes, (Not Always!) the first user to log on after a fresh full services restart cannot see the second.  It seems the 
+problem is with new players not recieving the data for the old ones- it happens with not so fresh servers more often and 
+sometimes with greater numbers of users, though the 2nd and 3rd can usually see eachother.  I'm pretty familiar with the 
+frontend and position service code having mostly rewritten them for our own ends and added several services and iI 
+cant find any bugs in it.  This problem happens with unmodified nel and snowballs2 code.  Has anyone else 
+experienced this?
+Here is some log from the frontend service containing the only error message I could find that I thought might relate to 
+the matter:
+INF 1272 main.cpp 540 : The client with uniq Id 2 is connected
+INF 1272 main.cpp 561 : Sent IDENTIFICATION message to the new client
+INF 1272 main.cpp 216 : Received ADD_ENTITY from the client
+INF 1272 main.cpp 255 : Sent ADD_ENTITY message to all the connected clients
+WRN 1476 sock.cpp 117 : Exception will be launched: Socket error: Connection closed (0)
+INF 1272 main.cpp 576 : A client with uniq Id 2 has disconnected
+WRN 1272 unified_network.cpp 830 : HNETL5: can't find service WS to send message CC     <-- could this be it?
+INF 1272 main.cpp 591 : Sent REMOVE_ENTITY message to the position manager.
+
+I can provide all the service's logs if anyone wants- I just didnt want to flood the mailing list.
+
+Michael Warnock
+Total hard disk crash - O pestilence!
+Now is the winter of our disk contents! 
+
+
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Sun Feb 24 20:38:10 2002
+Received: from freyja.in-orbit.net (w002.z064002027.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.27.2])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1OJc4W49141
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:38:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur.in-orbit.net ([64.2.27.3] helo=thor)
+	by freyja.in-orbit.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16f4J9-0002Ff-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:27:39 -0800
+Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:35:12 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
+Message-Id: <E16f4J9-0002Ff-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+Subject: [Nel] re: invisible users
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+it seems now that it was a couple problems- a still unidentified one in our services and a pacs content issue.  I'll post my 
+insight into how to avoid these problems when I'm sure how:)
+
+Michael Warnock
+Total hard disk crash - O pestilence!
+Now is the winter of our disk contents! 
+
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Sun Feb 24 20:54:48 2002
+Received: from mel-rto7.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-7.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.26])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1OJslW50436
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:54:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.79) by mel-rto7.wanadoo.fr; 24 Feb 2002 20:48:29 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.66.45) by mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr; 24 Feb 2002 20:48:02 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16f4cr-0000qS-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 20:48:01 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Particule assert
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr>
+	<15478.5954.781447.858445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<3C76242E.EA25D7E6@loria.fr>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 24 Feb 2002 20:48:00 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <3C76242E.EA25D7E6@loria.fr>
+Message-ID: <87k7t2fyq7.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 39
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello Alain,
+
+Alain Dutech <Alain.Dutech@loria.fr> writes:
+
+> Red Hat 7.1 GNU/Linux
+> gcc version 2.96
+> STLport version 4.5.1
+> GL_VERSION: 1.2 Mesa 3.4
+> GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI Voodoo3 20001101
+
+As you, I also observe that the text in the main window is unreadable.
+
+My config:
+ Debian Woody 3.0 GNU/Linux on x86
+ gcc 2.95.4
+ STLport version 4.5.1
+ OpenGL version string: 1.2 Mesa 3.4.2
+ OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Rage128 20010405 AGP 1x x86/MMX
+
+And for info:
+OpenGL extensions:
+    GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_EXT_abgr, 
+    GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_histogram, 
+    GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, 
+    GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, 
+    GL_EXT_texture_object, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_EXT_vertex_array, 
+    GL_MESA_window_pos, GL_MESA_resize_buffers, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, 
+    GL_PGI_misc_hints, GL_SGIS_pixel_texture, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp
+glu version: 1.3
+glu extensions:
+    GLU_EXT_nurbs_tessellator, GLU_EXT_object_space_tess
+
+When starting snowball, I have the following message:
+WRN 3248 driver_opengl.cpp 785 : Missing Important GL extension: GL_EXT_texture_env_combine => All envcombine are setup to GL_MODULATE!!!
+
+
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Thu Feb 21 20:17:28 2002
+Received: from relay-2m.club-internet.fr (relay-2m.club-internet.fr [195.36.216.171])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LJHRW07716
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:17:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns01m-6-178.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.5.178])
+	by relay-2m.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id AE68D16BB
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:11:13 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <001001c1bb0b$42fd1080$b205c2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:09:17 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Information :
+All the problem is that snowball use the opengl 1.2 extension.
+Why ?
+Because Microsoft system only include Opengl 1.1 and if you want to run
+Opengl 1.2 program you need to download an Opengl driver of your 3D
+accelerated card manufacturer.
+
+The problem if you dont have a 3D card , you 're never be able to download
+one !!
+
+The solution is an API ( Mesa ) that implements all Opengl 1.2 and newly 1.2
+spécification.
+
+So you have to download Mesa 4.0.1 version and add additionnal patch to
+correct the _finite compile bug . After compile librairie of Mesa.
+
+After you have to compile nel 3D Opengl Driver but using Mesa API . How ?
+- change your include Opengl directory by Mesa Opengl include directory
+- add Mesa library directory
+- add Mesa library in Visual studio to the nel 3D Opengl  driver project.
+
+Compile your nel 3D Opengl driver and had the nel3DOpengl Dll and mesa DLL
+in snowbal game directory.
+
+Run and enjoy !!
+
+
+On my work PC station ( 64 Mo Ram and duron 600 mhz ) it run at least at
+0,33 fps   :) but it run perfectly without any change in snowball code.
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Thu Feb 21 21:32:40 2002
+Received: from relay-2m.club-internet.fr (relay-2m.club-internet.fr [195.36.216.171])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LKWeW09232
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:32:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns01m-6-178.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.5.178])
+	by relay-2m.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id E722516B7
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:26:25 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000501c1bb15$c47f7800$b205c2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:24:28 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Visual studio project error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello ,
+I usually download nevrax source around 21H ( french time or  GMT + 1 ).
+i use the 2 method:
+- compressed Zip snapshot
+- cvs download
+
+it seem that when i download zipped snapshot file , all visual studio
+project have mistake
+but when i download source code with cvs , studio project are good.
+
+may be a problem with your snapshot program ? ( make snapshot while visual
+studio is running may cause this problem )
+
+see you soon.
+
+
+
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Thu Feb 21 22:08:44 2002
+Received: from mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-6.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.25])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1LL8dW09906
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:08:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.79) by mel-rto6.wanadoo.fr; 21 Feb 2002 22:02:23 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.251.184.85) by mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr; 21 Feb 2002 22:01:53 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16e0Lg-0001GW-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:01:52 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 21 Feb 2002 22:01:52 +0100
+Message-ID: <873czu35xb.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 32
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-="
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball now starts... but fonts are unreadable
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+--=-=-=
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello,
+
+Thanks to the great work made by Lo=EFc, snowballs2 is now running on my
+machine. Almost... the fonts (text messages and text consol) are
+unreadable.
+
+Below a screenshot showing it:
+
+--=-=-=
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+Q+NDxDqfr3qHxoeIcWnmj1MSgwTnU/XvUPjQ8Q6n696h8aHiHFp5o9TEoME51P171D40PEOp+veo
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+F/19p39pp/8AMi4ytdL2V1q31azr1bLdp068Jzl0sHhKSb7Syjw7XatrRiWqtDWrard6TXoUIb9S
+W7iOUs4kn2kD5l1DzB5L5P8AjvKuk3d+Pzd3Gc5xzOtBnS2m+lXdrEd+XWupNYxDgHs3q3TRl5Jw
+UWn+Mh3r3+499XdV9V+JH7zvAej+p63SPr/Lp2izjtO07W9MuJVqNnCUpQ3Gpzi1jKfZL3Gp1d1X
+1X4kfvO8BmPaOpEzaIjM/r/Kce3fhwFHZvVo0acZWmGopP8AGQ7vpOphpj1DQ7S2v6c6E6cY70IT
+TaaTXPiveSwMa23amriZxEx0S2razi73Zq8hdzjZ0ZVKCxuylUjl8OPd25Nfq7qvqvxI/ed4DpHt
+LWiMYj7+axr2cH1d1X1X4kfvNupp2t1NMpWDs4dFSnvxanHezx/2vezsQSfaOpbGYjl+v8k69p8F
+e3GzOrz6LdtM7tRSf4yHL7TbtND1WhqFpVlZ5hGtBzfSx9GKfF8+J24NW9p6sxuzEfX+VnXtMYc/
+rmz0L5Vrqi6srqTg4w3oqLw13ruXeQFXZvVpQSVpx3ov8pDsa9534Oejt+rpVisYnHVmutasYcPQ
+0LV7e4p1oWicqc1NJ1I4ynnvMl7pGs313O5q2cVOeMqM444LH53uO0Br+o6m9vYjPz/lePbOcK9p
+7M6vG5rzdp6Mt3D6SHHC+k6zZ2yuLHT6lK5p7k3Vckt5Phhd30EsDOvt2pr13bRH380vq2vGJAAe
+JyAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB//Z
+--=-=-=
+
+
+My config:
+ - up-to-date Debian woody 3.0
+ - STLport4.5
+ - python 1.5
+ - freetype 2.0.8
+ - libxml 2.4.13
+
+ - graphic card: ATI rage 128 with XFree86 4.1.0.1 (r128 module)
+
+If you need further info, just ask. 
+
+Sorry, it's always me that announce bad news. :)
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+
+PS : I won't be online tomorrow and for the whole week-end.
+
+PS2 : For nevrax guys information, I was unable to compile code/nel with
+      --enable-ai yesterday. I however haven't tested it today.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+--=-=-=--
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 10:56:25 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1P9uPW10988
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:56:25 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1P9oBn50898
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:50:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006f01c1bde1$d131fd10$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15478.11429.932085.337873@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Asserts (more information)
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:50:11 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> AST 9065 bit_set.h 74 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+> AST 9065 bit_set.h 86 : "bitNumber>=0 && bitNumber<NumBits"
+
+Ok, the problem should come from event_listener in misc module that use a
+bit set (the keyboard state) and caps lock keys value is perhaps out of
+bound of this bit set.
+event.h contains all the key (0 to 0xFF) so the bit set size is 0xFF and
+Caps Lock is not in this enum so the value is perhaps random and make an
+assert when trying to access to the bit set.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 11:05:37 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PA5bW11119
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:05:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1P9xNn51018
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:59:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007b01c1bde3$1a3596b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15478.31359.724198.684671@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Binary releases
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:59:23 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Nevrax don't provide any snowballs binaries because we want you to compile
+and run snowballs by yourself to find (and fx) problem that you had.
+If we provided binaries at the beginning, nobody would have tried to compile
+it and we would never had all informations you sent to us on this list.
+We know that it's quite hard to compile and install NeL and snowballs, but
+we hope that with your help, it'll be easier.
+You can provide any binaries you want on your site or anywhere you want.
+Perhaps in a futur, we'll provide this binaries but not now.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 11:05:39 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PA5cW11124
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:05:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fHuY-0001Lx-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:59:10 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15482.2797.921111.242323@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:59:09 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] invisible users
+In-Reply-To: Michael Warnock's message of 23 February 2002 12:36:42 -0800
+References: <E16einC-0001DO-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Michael Warnock writes:
+ > greetings,
+ > 
+ > The engine is coming along beautifully! Thanks again for all your hard work.
+ > 
+ > I can provide all the service's logs if anyone wants- I just didnt
+ > want to flood the mailing list.
+ > 
+
+	It would be a lot easier if you provide the code you wrote.
+Guessing is less efficient than debugging ;-) Where can I download it ? 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 13:58:12 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PCwBW24074
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:58:11 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1PCpvn53242
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:51:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00ae01c1bdfb$358627f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <E16einC-0001DO-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] invisible users
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:51:57 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Michael,
+
+> Sometimes, (Not Always!) the first user to log on after a fresh full
+services restart cannot see the second.  It seems the
+> problem is with new players not recieving the data for the old ones- it
+happens with not so fresh servers more often and
+> sometimes with greater numbers of users, though the 2nd and 3rd can
+usually see eachother.  I'm pretty familiar with the
+> frontend and position service code having mostly rewritten them for our
+own ends and added several services and iI
+> cant find any bugs in it.  This problem happens with unmodified nel and
+snowballs2 code.  Has anyone else
+> experienced this?
+
+Hum, quite strange. I know a bug in the Net lib that happens very rarely.
+Sometimes, the lib seems to lost some messages (in TCP, yes... we know...).
+It's very very strange we can't reproduce the bug. We add a incremental
+number in each packet to see when we lost something, and when it happens, we
+log a nlwarning and should displays some thing like : "ERR: stop in the
+buffer %u and should be %u" or "WRN: LNETL1: !!!LOST A MESSAGE!!! I received
+the message number %u but I'm waiting the message number %u (cnx %s)"
+It's perhaps a lost in a stack during thread communication but anyway, it s
+happen very rarerly and we ll have to fix that quickly when we'll found a
+way to reproduce the problem.
+If you have this log message, your problem is this one, otherwise, I don't
+really know what it could be. I'll create a little stress test that
+connect/disconnect some clients, some services automatically with a front
+end and a login system to see the robustness of the system.
+
+> WRN 1272 unified_network.cpp 830 : HNETL5: can't find service WS to send
+message CC     <-- could this be it?
+
+WS is welcome service, it works with the Login System to identify players
+account. The message says that you didn't launch the WS so the front end
+can't send info to it.
+(I don't think that problem comes from that)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 14:05:37 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PD5aW24685
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:05:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1PCxMn53394
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:59:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00c701c1bdfc$3e699680$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org><3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr><15478.5954.781447.858445@inspiron.dachary.org><3C76242E.EA25D7E6@loria.fr> <87k7t2fyq7.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Particule assert
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:59:21 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+> WRN 3248 driver_opengl.cpp 785 : Missing Important GL extension:
+GL_EXT_texture_env_combine => All envcombine are setup to GL_MODULATE!!!
+
+If you don't see the font, the problem is due to this warning. The font
+system needs GL_EXT_texture_env_combine extension, and you don't have it so
+the font can't be displayed correctly :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 14:46:40 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PDkeW28275
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:46:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1PDeQn53903
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:40:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00f101c1be01$fb8533a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15478.31359.724198.684671@inspiron.dachary.org> <007b01c1bde3$1a3596b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Binary releases
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:40:26 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Vianney,
+
+In fact, to be exact, We wait a working version (bug fixed, no assert, no
+sigsegv) of Snowballs2 under Linux to provide official binaries.
+When we'll have this working version there is no problem providing official
+SB2 binary.
+
+Regards :-)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 14:53:10 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PDrAW28917
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:53:10 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fLSj-0002Ky-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:46:41 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15482.16449.242761.115575@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:46:41 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Example server set
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	For the record, here is a sample set of hardware to build a
+remotely manageable server.
+
+BlackBox Pow-R-Boot 5 +: powerboot
+
+http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/itemgroup1015guest.asp?param=272&ig_id=1015&title=Pow%2DR%2DBoot+5&related=
+
+Blackbox ServSwitch : kvm
+
+http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/itemgroup2590guest.asp?param=539&ig_id=2590&title=Matrix+ServSwitch&related=
+
+Cisco Catalyst 3500 XL: switch
+http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/si/casi/ca3500xl/prodlit/index.shtml
+http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/lan/c2900xl/29_35wc/index.htm
+
+Terminal Server: PC Rack 4U (low config)
+Cyclades Card 4/8 Ports
+http://www.cyclades.com/index2.php
+
+Server: Any
+
+	There is much to say on this subject. 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Feb 25 15:49:37 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PEnZW34149
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:49:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:43:21 Z
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:06:48 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <114154010305.20020225150648@in-orbit.net>
+To: Loic Dachary <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+In-reply-To: <15482.2797.921111.242323@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <E16einC-0001DO-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+ <15482.2797.921111.242323@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Loic,
+
+Monday, February 25, 2002, 1:59:09 AM, you wrote:
+LD> It would be a lot easier if you provide the code you wrote.
+LD> Guessing is less efficient than debugging ;-) Where can I download it ? 
+
+Our code tree is at http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/bang/.
+The service in question is the player service.  We have figured
+out a part of the problem, I don't think Michael has committed
+the fix yet, we recently started working on this code-base
+again...  We basically started from scratch with the Snowballs
+services and are re-implementing features... We want to move
+our game-mech system over to the NeL agent system, hopefully
+we'll be able to do that soon.
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Feb 25 15:45:05 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PEj4W33676
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:45:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:38:49 Z
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 15:06:48 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <114154010305.20020225150648@in-orbit.net>
+To: Loic Dachary <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+In-reply-To: <15482.2797.921111.242323@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <E16einC-0001DO-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+ <15482.2797.921111.242323@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Loic,
+
+Monday, February 25, 2002, 1:59:09 AM, you wrote:
+LD> It would be a lot easier if you provide the code you wrote.
+LD> Guessing is less efficient than debugging ;-) Where can I download it ? 
+
+Our code tree is at http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/bang/.
+The service in question is the player service.  We have figured
+out a part of the problem, I don't think Michael has committed
+the fix yet, we recently started working on this code-base
+again...  We basically started from scratch with the Snowballs
+services and are re-implementing features... We want to move
+our game-mech system over to the NeL agent system, hopefully
+we'll be able to do that soon.
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert Bjarnason
+InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 16:22:15 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PFMFW37251
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:22:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fMqw-0002Or-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:15:46 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15482.21794.385392.582879@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:15:46 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	For the record, here is a sample screenshot that shows how
+strange the landscape looks under some circumstances. I've not
+investigated this problem.
+
+	http://www.dachary.org/nel/screen01.jpg
+
+	My configuration is GNU/Linux, STL-4.5, today's nel CVS,
+gcc-2.95.4, ATI Radeon 7500 / 64Mb, linux-2.4.17 (Radeon DRM),
+XFree-4.2.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+P.S. I'm glad itsalive is back ;-)
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 16:33:44 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PFXhW38315
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:33:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1PFRTn55498
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:27:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <012701c1be10$efe040d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15482.21794.385392.582879@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 16:27:29 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+We also had very strange bug on landscape on Radeon 8500 under Windows. We
+had to get old Windows driver to make it work fine... It's perhaps (surely)
+a driver problem (ATI suxx for their driver...)
+
+> For the record, here is a sample screenshot that shows how
+> strange the landscape looks under some circumstances. I've not
+> investigated this problem.
+>
+> http://www.dachary.org/nel/screen01.jpg
+>
+> My configuration is GNU/Linux, STL-4.5, today's nel CVS,
+> gcc-2.95.4, ATI Radeon 7500 / 64Mb, linux-2.4.17 (Radeon DRM),
+> XFree-4.2.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 17:55:13 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PGtCW45829
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:55:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1PGmwn56801
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:48:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00f801c1be1c$6600e160$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15464.59174.152741.642712@inspiron.dachary.org><JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFEELHCDAA.miller@nevrax.com> <15473.18360.723384.684719@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:49:32 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Loïc,
+Give me some days to give you a feedback on this :-)
+
+-h
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Loic Dachary" <loic@gnu.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 7:28 PM
+Subject: RE: [Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+
+
+> Daniel Miller writes:
+>  > This one is a little out of date - I wrote it last April.
+>  > The feature list hasn't realy changed, but the 'to be developed' and 'in
+>  > development' listings are badly out of date.
+>  >
+>  > We'll give it a once over shortly.
+>
+> That would be nice. Here are a few features I found in other
+> 3D engines. You may want to add them to the list, even if to say that
+> Nel does not support XXX this because it supports YYY that is
+> superior. It would help people understand why and how Nel is better
+> than any existing Free Software 3D engine.
+>
+> That would help a lot when comparing. You also want to
+> s/frustrum/frustum/ ;-)
+>
+>
+> ----
+>      True perspective rendering
+>      True 6DOF engine
+>      Arbitrary sloped convex polygons
+>
+>      Flexible plugin system which allows for plugging in other
+>      Generic mechanism that allows plug-and-play capabilities and
+>
+>      Support for 8-bit (palette), 15/16-bit (truecolor), and 32-bit (truecolor) displays.
+>      Run at many resolutions (320x200, 640x480, 800x600, ...).
+>      Window or fullscreen mode, up to 1024x768 (30fps on minimal config)
+>
+>      Visibility system based on [portals, octrees, BSP trees,
+> c-buffer, CSG].
+>      Hierarchical bounding box collision detection system.
+>      Elipsoid collision detection.
+>      Polygon level collision detection for terrain and 3D objects
+>
+>      Font system plugin to support other font types
+>
+>      Textures can have any size which is a [power of two / not a power
+>        of two] and they [need / need not] be square.
+>      Supports textures with various formats including GIF, TGA, PNG,
+>        BMP, JPG, and others.
+>      Perspective correct texture mapping with interpolation every xx pixel.
+>      Transparent and semi-transparent textures allowing for
+>        see-through water surfaces and windows.
+>      Support for dynamic textures (i.e. texture that you can render
+>        on and put on a polygon as well as normal textures).
+>      Support for internal 24-bit textures with a private colormap for
+>        every texture or true 24-bit.
+>
+>      Multiple 3D windows and real-time cameras for 1st or 3rd person views
+>      Split screen
+>      Zoom
+>
+>      Full programmable and customizable through scripting language
+>
+>      Light maps
+>      Trilinear mip mapping
+>      Mip mapping
+>      Animated 3D sprites
+>      Animated 3D decals
+>      Heightmap based deformable terrain for landscapes
+>      Geometric LOD
+>      Smooth mesh deformation for models
+>      Flat and cubic environment map rendering
+>      Mirrors and alpha mapping you can create really nice shiny or
+>         reflecting surfaces.
+>      Procedural textures for water or lava.
+>      Programmable 2D and 3D effects (lens flares, bullet holes etc.)
+>      Camera portals and mirrors
+>      Programmable particle and beam generators
+>      Particle system using 2D sprites
+>
+>      Path tracking for camera, actors or vehicles
+>      Animated soft-skin models with unlimited skin size
+>      3D triangle mesh sprites with frame animation.
+>      Support for skeletal sprites.
+>      3D objects can be taken or manipulated with mouse in real time
+>      Moving objects
+>      Script language controlling object movement.
+>
+>      3D sound sources (DS3D, EAX, A3D, ...) with Doppler effect
+>      CD Audio, MID and WAV support for music and 3D sounds
+>      Sound formats: WAV, MP3, Ogg/Vorbis, AU, AIFF, IFF, and MOD (using MikMod).
+>      Save / Load feature for resuming games at arbitrary positions
+>      Convertors for Quake MDL and Quake II MD2 formats
+>      Convert MAP files (from Quake/HalfLife) from/to internal format.
+>      Convert 3DS to models or levels.
+>      Load 3DS, MDL, MD2, ASE, OBJ, or POV objects.
+>      ASCII world file format allowing you to easily redefine the world.
+>      Store levels in standard compressed ZIP archives to make a bundle of one level.
+>
+>      Animated multi-layered sky and backdrop bitmaps
+>      Multi-layered and animated skyboxes and skydomes.
+>      Dynamic gouraud shaded sky dome (half-sphere)
+>      Moving sun which actually modifies the color of the sky in real time
+>      Halo's around lights.
+>      Coloured fog areas
+>      Depth-correct colored volumetric fog in sectors (software & hardware)
+>      Integrated 2D engine for background pictures
+>
+>      Multi-player client/server mode via network (TCP or UDP)
+>
+>      2D sprites, panels, buttons, sliders, overlays
+>      2D controls, text, screenshots, and movie scenes
+>      Static and dynamic coloured light sources
+>      Static colored lights with real shadows. Lighting and shadows
+>      Static and dynamic shadows
+>      Dynamic colored lights with soft shadows
+>      Precalculated Radiosity on the Lightmaps
+>      Arbitrary axis (quaternion) rotations
+>      Remote or missile cameras
+>
+> ----
+>
+> --
+> Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+> 12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+> 75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+>         GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 18:18:36 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PHIZW47784
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:18:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fOfW-0002TF-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:12:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15482.28773.885916.808139@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:12:05 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+In-Reply-To: Vianney Lecroart's message of 25 February 2002 16:27:29 +0100
+References: <15482.21794.385392.582879@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<012701c1be10$efe040d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ > Hi,
+ > 
+ > We also had very strange bug on landscape on Radeon 8500 under Windows. We
+ > had to get old Windows driver to make it work fine... It's perhaps (surely)
+ > a driver problem (ATI suxx for their driver...)
+ > 
+
+	Hm. Annoying. Since the drivers I'm using are Free Software we
+can fix them.  To the very least we want to report the bugs to the DRI
+project ;-). Could someone else running GNU/Linux confirm that they
+don't have the same problem with a different card (Guillaume Morin ?
+David Mentre ?  Vincent Caron ?) ? It shows a lot when in the trees,
+otherwise it's not very notcieable.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+http://www.dachary.org/nel/screen01.jpg
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 18:31:14 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PHVDW48975
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:31:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fOrk-0002U9-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:24:44 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15482.29531.994013.718754@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:24:43 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Binary releases
+In-Reply-To: Vianney Lecroart's message of 25 February 2002 14:40:26 +0100
+References: <15478.31359.724198.684671@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<007b01c1bde3$1a3596b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+	<00f101c1be01$fb8533a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ > Hi Vianney,
+ > 
+ > In fact, to be exact, We wait a working version (bug fixed, no assert, no
+ > sigsegv) of Snowballs2 under Linux to provide official binaries.
+ > When we'll have this working version there is no problem providing official
+ > SB2 binary.
+ > 
+
+	Ok, thanks for the information. Since you see no objection to
+it, I'll provide binaries on my website. Would you then mind adding a
+link to them on nevrax.org ? Or should I just send it on the list on a
+regular basis ?
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 18:39:43 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PHdhW49347
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:39:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1PHXTn57568
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:33:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <014201c1be22$89641e50$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15478.31359.724198.684671@inspiron.dachary.org><007b01c1bde3$1a3596b0$0901a8c0@vianneyl><00f101c1be01$fb8533a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <15482.29531.994013.718754@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Binary releases
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:33:28 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> Ok, thanks for the information. Since you see no objection to
+> it, I'll provide binaries on my website. Would you then mind adding a
+> link to them on nevrax.org ? Or should I just send it on the list on a
+> regular basis ?
+
+For now, you can provide unofficial binaries on your website.
+After, when Snowballs2 will be ok, we'll see if we'll do a link on your site
+or if we'll put them directly on our site (with your help if needed)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From guillaume@morinfr.org Mon Feb 25 18:41:42 2002
+Received: from siri (ns1.alcove-solutions.com [212.155.209.139])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PHfdW49450
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:41:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from guillaume@morinfr.org)
+Received: from guillaum by siri with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fP3A-0001Md-00; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:36:32 +0100
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:36:32 +0100
+From: Guillaume Morin <guillaume@morinfr.org>
+To: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+Cc: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+Message-ID: <20020225173632.GB4458@morinfr.org>
+Mail-Followup-To: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>, nel@nevrax.org
+References: <15482.21794.385392.582879@inspiron.dachary.org> <012701c1be10$efe040d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <15482.28773.885916.808139@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+In-Reply-To: <15482.28773.885916.808139@inspiron.dachary.org>
+User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Dans un message du 25 Feb à 18:12, Loic Dachary écrivait :
+> Could someone else running GNU/Linux confirm that they
+> don't have the same problem with a different card (Guillaume Morin ?
+> David Mentre ?  Vincent Caron ?) ? It shows a lot when in the trees,
+> otherwise it's not very notcieable.
+
+Never noticed that on my nVidia GeForce 2 MX. Will check more thoroughly
+this evening and post if I am able to reproduce this problem on my box.
+
+HTH.
+
+-- 
+Guillaume Morin <guillaume@morinfr.org>
+
+              Je préfère à l'ennui, m'endormir pour toujours (FFF)
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 18:54:57 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PHsvW49846
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:54:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fPEf-0002V9-00; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:48:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15482.30952.838818.20952@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:48:24 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: tanis@mediacom.it
+cc: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Nel Binaries
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Do you happen to have binaries for nel & plugins ? I'd be willing
+to make them available to people who might need them. 
+
+	Thanks in advance,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From michael@in-orbit.net Mon Feb 25 18:57:56 2002
+Received: from freyja.in-orbit.net (w002.z064002027.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [64.2.27.2])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PHvtW49960
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:57:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from michael@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from baldur.in-orbit.net ([64.2.27.3] helo=thor)
+	by freyja.in-orbit.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fPDj-0003S8-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:47:27 -0800
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:55:31 -0800
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] invisible users
+Organization: InOrbit
+X-Mailer: Opera 5.10 build 902
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
+Message-Id: <E16fPDj-0003S8-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+>WS is welcome service, it works with the Login System to identify players
+>account. The message says that you didn't launch the WS so the front end
+>can't send info to it.
+>(I don't think that problem comes from that)
+>
+the welcome service is running and displays appropriate debug info, its just this one circumstance under which the front 
+end cant send to the welcome service i think.
+anyway we've discovered a couple possible causes for our problems and i'm working on reimplimenting our features 
+one at a time to track them down right now.
+
+michael
+
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Mon Feb 25 19:21:55 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PILtW50488
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:21:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1PIFfn58306
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:15:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] contrib and fix
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 19:15:41 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEOACDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="us-ascii"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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+In-Reply-To: <15476.61902.423458.451046@inspiron.dachary.org>
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Thanks Loic. This is great - I'll pass it on to the chaps in ties and we'll
+look at puting it on the site as soon as they've done their legal wot-not.
+
+Cheers,
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Loic Dachary
+Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 2:11 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: RE: [Nel] contrib and fix
+
+
+Daniel Miller writes:
+ > OK - What you propose sounds sensible to me - do you have a standard
+ > agreement somewhere that you recommend?
+
+	Sure. You'll find attached to this mail a generic assignement
+fit for an individual contributor that I customized for Nevrax.
+
+	You will also find a copyright assignment for my own work that
+I'm ready to sign as soon as you send it to me. It has to be printed
+on letterhead paper and you'll have to fill the name of Nevrax's CEO.
+The CEO needs to sign two copies of the letter, send both of them to
+me (address included in the assignment). I'll return one of them
+signed and we will be done with it ;-)
+
+	You may add the generic form to the nevrax.org web site along
+with the reasons why such an assignment is a good thing. I can provide
+a small standard explanation if you like.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 21:06:22 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PK6LW52443
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:06:21 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fRHs-0002Zk-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:59:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15482.38839.826907.376977@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:59:51 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: RE: [Nel] contrib and fix
+In-Reply-To: Daniel Miller's message of 25 February 2002 19:15:41 +0100
+References: <15476.61902.423458.451046@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEOACDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Daniel Miller writes:
+ > Thanks Loic. This is great - I'll pass it on to the chaps in ties and we'll
+ > look at puting it on the site as soon as they've done their legal wot-not.
+
+	Ok. It may be useful to tell them that this assignement has
+been used successfully during more than ten years, world wide. The
+success is not measured in terms of lawsuits but in terms of informal
+GNU GPL enforcement. Thanks to these assignments (among other things),
+the GNU GPL was enforced a number of times in various countries in the
+past ten years without the need to resort to court, even once. 
+
+	There is a whole theory behind, see
+
+http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/ and specifically
+http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/publications/lu-12.html, 
+http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/publications/lu-13.html.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Mon Feb 25 23:21:40 2002
+Received: from mel-rto7.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-7.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.26])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PMLeW54778
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:21:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.79) by mel-rto7.wanadoo.fr; 25 Feb 2002 23:15:21 +0100
+Received: from oops (193.252.189.100) by mel-rta8.wanadoo.fr; 25 Feb 2002 23:14:53 +0100
+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fTOW-0000bi-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:14:52 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+References: <15482.21794.385392.582879@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<012701c1be10$efe040d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+	<15482.28773.885916.808139@inspiron.dachary.org>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 25 Feb 2002 23:14:51 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <15482.28773.885916.808139@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Message-ID: <87u1s5b44k.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 13
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org> writes:
+
+> project ;-). Could someone else running GNU/Linux confirm that they
+> don't have the same problem with a different card (Guillaume Morin ?
+> David Mentre ?  Vincent Caron ?) ? It shows a lot when in the trees,
+> otherwise it's not very notcieable.
+
+I don't see such a problem on my version (on an ATI rage128). However, I
+don't have fonts, and the marvelous sky. :)
+
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Mon Feb 25 23:26:52 2002
+Received: from mel-rto7.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-7.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.26])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PMQpW54820
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:26:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta7.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.61) by mel-rto7.wanadoo.fr; 25 Feb 2002 23:20:33 +0100
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+Received: from david by oops with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16fTTw-0000bo-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:20:28 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Particule assert
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr>
+	<15478.5954.781447.858445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<3C76242E.EA25D7E6@loria.fr> <87k7t2fyq7.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+	<00c701c1bdfc$3e699680$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 25 Feb 2002 23:20:28 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <00c701c1bdfc$3e699680$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <87pu2tb3v7.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 12
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+"Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> If you don't see the font, the problem is due to this warning. The font
+> system needs GL_EXT_texture_env_combine extension, and you don't have it so
+> the font can't be displayed correctly :-/
+
+Ooch! Will you try to fix that or consider that all normal NeL users
+will have graphic cards with the above mentioned extension?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Tue Feb 26 04:36:58 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1Q3awW70463
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 04:36:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:30:42 Z
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 03:58:49 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <13639829281.20020226035849@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g1Q3awW70463
+Subject: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+I've been trying to get a Water Pool to work
+in a client app that is based on the Snowballs
+client.  I've spent a lot of time trying to
+figure this out, my pool works fine in the
+object viewer, but not when I load it into
+the client along with the WaveMaker shape.
+
+One thing I noticed is that CWaterModel::registerBasic()
+is not called, I tried adding CScene::registerBasics ();
+and then the CWaterModel is registered... But
+no pool appears...
+
+Is it possible to enable the Water Pools using
+the UDriver concept or should I set up my Driver
+more like the ObjectViewer does it?
+
+Here is how I create the WaterPoolManager after
+and Instance Group with a WaterShape and WaveMakerShape
+has been loaded and added to the Scene:
+
+WaterPoolManager = &NL3D::GetWaterPoolManager();
+
+NL3D::CWaterPoolManager::CWaterHeightMapBuild whmb;
+whmb.ID   = 0;
+whmb.Name = "Water01";
+whmb.Size = 256;
+whmb.FilterWeight = 3.0f;
+whmb.UnitSize = 0.3f;
+whmb.WavesEnabled = true;
+whmb.WaveIntensity = 1.5f;
+whmb.WavePeriod = 0.05f;
+whmb.WaveRadius = 3;
+whmb.BorderWaves = true;
+whmb.Damping = 0.99f;
+
+WaterPoolManager->createWaterPool(whmb);
+WaterPoolManager->setBlendFactor(dynamic_cast<IDriver*> (Driver), 0.1f);
+
+Any hints would be appreciated...
+
+Thanks,
+Robert Bjarnason
+robofly@in-orbit.net
+
+
+
+From delirec@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net Tue Feb 26 07:29:25 2002
+Received: from NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net ([66.78.34.31])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1Q6TNW87985
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:29:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from delirec@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net)
+Received: from delirec by NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net with local (Exim 3.34 #1)
+	id 16fazp-00043E-00
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:21:53 -0500
+From: "Dennis McGregor" <dns@delire.cz>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25
+X-IPAddress: 203.54.74.12
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 01:21:53 -0500
+X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net
+Subject: [Nel] compilation problems...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I've been unable to compile the Nel engine and would be grateful if
+anyone can shed some light on my situation.  I've greped the archives
+and there doesn't seem to be anything specifically related to the
+problems I'm having (though they have helped me surmount other, less
+esoteric hurdles).
+
+Some info on my setup: 
+I'm running Debian 2.2r2. 
+I'm using Mesa-3.3, 
+	STLport-4.0, 
+	libxml-2.4.16,
+	freetype-2.0.8, 
+	xlib6g-3.3.6-11pot (perhaps this is a/the problem - only thing I
+haven't updated since beginning this),
+and the latest non-cvs nel.tar.gz
+
+configure fails with the message:
+
+*** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file config.log
+for the
+*** exact error that occured. This usually means LIBXML was incorrectly
+installed
+*** or that you have moved LIBXML since it was installed. In the latter
+case, you
+*** may want to edit the xml2-config script: /usr/bin/xml2-config
+configure: error: libxml2 must be installed.
+
+so I use the --disable-xmltest flag. here is the command I'm using:
+
+./configure --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/STLport-4.0/stlport/
+--with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/S
+TLport-4.0/lib/ --with-python=/usr/lib/python1.5/
+--with-openal=/usr/local/openal2/openal/ --enable-sound --enable-ai
+--with-gnu-ld --disable-xmltest
+
+There aren't any old libxml files hanging around, ldconfig doesn't
+complain about the libs that are there, and running xml2-config outputs
+the information correctly (though, perhaps I should mention that I
+erased the -lz flag from `xml2-config --libs` because ld complained
+about it during the make process (bad?)).
+
+These are the last few (enough?) lines I get from running make:
+
+Making all in .
+make[3]: Entering directory `/usr/local/nel/src/misc'
+/bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.
+-I../../include    -I/usr/include/libxml2/libxml -I/usr/include/libxml2
+-O3 -DNL_RELEASE  -ftemplate-depth-24 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/STLport-4.0/stlport/ -c mutex.cpp
+rm -f .libs/mutex.lo
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include
+-I/usr/include/libxml2/libxml -I/usr/include/libxml2 -O3 -DNL_RELEASE
+-ftemplate-depth-24 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include
+-I/usr/local/STLport-4.0/stlport/ -Wp,-MD,.deps/mutex.pp -c  -fPIC -DPIC
+mutex.cpp -o .libs/mutex.lo
+mutex.cpp: In method `NLMISC::CUnfairMutex::CUnfairMutex(const
+_STL::string &)':
+mutex.cpp:246: `PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP' undeclared (first use this
+function)
+mutex.cpp:246: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
+mutex.cpp:246: for each function it appears in.)
+make[3]: *** [mutex.lo] Error 1
+make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/nel/src/misc'
+make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/nel/src/misc'
+make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/nel/src'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+
+Please let me know if you need any more info.
+
+Thanks,
+Dennis.
+
+-- 
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Feb 26 10:04:14 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1Q94DW04209
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001c01c1bea3$b0bb5be0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org><3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr><15478.5954.781447.858445@inspiron.dachary.org><3C76242E.EA25D7E6@loria.fr> <87k7t2fyq7.fsf@wanadoo.fr><00c701c1bdfc$3e699680$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <87pu2tb3v7.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Particule assert
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:57:59 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> > If you don't see the font, the problem is due to this warning. The font
+> > system needs GL_EXT_texture_env_combine extension, and you don't have it
+so
+> > the font can't be displayed correctly :-/
+>
+> Ooch! Will you try to fix that or consider that all normal NeL users
+> will have graphic cards with the above mentioned extension?
+
+We plan to port the 3d lib as many recent 3d card as possible and we could
+fix this font problem but it will not be before the midlle/end of summer.
+We can add this on the OSS community task list :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Feb 26 10:13:04 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1Q9D2W05100
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002a01c1bea4$ec13a930$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <E16fazp-00043E-00@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compilation problems...
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:06:48 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> These are the last few (enough?) lines I get from running make:
+>
+> mutex.cpp:246: `PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP' undeclared (first use this
+function)
+
+PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP should be in pthread.h that is located in the
+standard include directory (/usr/include on my system).
+
+For the XML problem, I don't know :-(
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Feb 25 18:11:06 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PHAxW47069
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:10:59 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <15482.28317.541820.605812@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:04:29 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] invisible users
+In-Reply-To: Robert Bjarnason's message of 25 February 2002 15:06:48 -0800
+References: <E16einC-0001DO-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
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+--0hAErvZwfB
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+
+Robert Bjarnason writes:
+ > Hi Loic,
+ > 
+ > Monday, February 25, 2002, 1:59:09 AM, you wrote:
+ > LD> It would be a lot easier if you provide the code you wrote.
+ > LD> Guessing is less efficient than debugging ;-) Where can I download it ? 
+ > 
+ > Our code tree is at http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/bang/.
+ > The service in question is the player service.  We have figured
+ > out a part of the problem, I don't think Michael has committed
+ > the fix yet, we recently started working on this code-base
+ > again...  We basically started from scratch with the Snowballs
+ > services and are re-implementing features... We want to move
+ > our game-mech system over to the NeL agent system, hopefully
+ > we'll be able to do that soon.
+
+	Thanks for the pointer. I started to compile it and ran into
+many minor compilation issues (see the patch below). When the server
+refused to link I started to ask myself if I was using the proper code
+base ;-) It looks like part of the client/src should be included in a
+support library so that the server can use it. Are you running into
+the same problems or am I missing something ?
+
+cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bang co warpstorm_alpha
+
+	My configuration is GNU/Linux, STL-4.5, today's nel CVS,
+gcc-2.95.4, ATI Radeon 7500 / 64Mb, linux-2.4.17 (Radeon DRM),
+XFree-4.2.
+
+	Also, I guess that I'll need some sample data files at some
+point. Could you tell me where they can be found ?
+
+	Cheers,
+
+You'll have to copy the acinclude.m4 file from snowballs2 and run
+the sh bootstrap script again.
+
+
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+--0hAErvZwfB
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: .signature
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+--0hAErvZwfB--
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Tue Feb 26 00:13:05 2002
+Received: from relay-2m.club-internet.fr (relay-2m.club-internet.fr [195.36.216.171])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1PND5W55538
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:13:05 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
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+	by relay-2m.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 865211685
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+Message-ID: <000501c1be51$1b993b60$e70ec2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:06:49 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] level design compile error
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello
+I m trying to build the level design but i have some include error.
+false directory link ( files exist but at this directory and some doesn't
+exist )
+
+i use build batch...
+
+what the solution thanks  ?
+
+
+A+
+
+
+From Alain.Dutech@loria.fr Tue Feb 26 11:29:41 2002
+Received: from lorraine.loria.fr (lorraine.loria.fr [152.81.1.17])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QATfW08806
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:29:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from Alain.Dutech@loria.fr)
+Received: from bar.loria.fr (bar.loria.fr [152.81.2.13])
+	by lorraine.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3/JCG-DG) with ESMTP id LAA19308
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:23:24 +0100 (MET)
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+	by bar.loria.fr (8.9.3/8.9.3/8.9.3-client/JCG) with ESMTP id LAA27820
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:23:23 +0100 (MET)
+Message-ID: <3C7B621B.B6960243@loria.fr>
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:23:23 +0100
+From: Alain Dutech <Alain.Dutech@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u)
+X-Accept-Language: en
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: NeL <nel@nevrax.org>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Subject: [Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+trying too fixe some latent assert
+- constant flow of :
+AST12088 debug.h 384 : "dynamic_cast<T>(o)"
+
+I compiled nel and snowballs2 with --with-debug
+and then
+[dutech@crevic client]$ snowballs
+INF32265 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN32265 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so': /usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so:
+undefined symbol: setupUserTextureMatrix__Q24NL3D9CDriverGLUiRQ24NL3D9CMaterial
+WRN32265 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+Abandon
+
+Any hints? I thought Exception were to be catch somewhere...
+
+My Config :
+Red Hat 7.1 GNU/Linux
+gcc version 2.96
+STLport version 4.5.1
+GL_VERSION: 1.2 Mesa 3.4
+GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI Voodoo3 20001101
+
+CVS tree of 21/01/2002
+
+Alain
+
+
+
+From vizerie@nevrax.com Tue Feb 26 11:38:42 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QAcfW08963
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:38:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nicolasv (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1QAWQn62837;
+	Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:32:26 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+From: "Nicolas Vizerie" <vizerie@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+References: <13639829281.20020226035849@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:32:27 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Robert,
+
+The way you proceed seems correct. Well, for now, you have to create a water
+pool the way the object viewer does, since it isn't exposed by the user
+interface for now. One is provided as the default if you don't create one,
+however. Note that you can also edit the water pool in the object viewer and
+save it, so just do a serial on the water pool then.
+You must also be sure that the normal of the water is pointing towards
+positives z when you create it, it can't work otherwise and will either
+display nothing or garbage.
+
+Here's the complete process anyway:
+
+- Create a convex polygon in the x-y plane where your water surface is. Note
+that the way it is tesselated force you to make it intersect the border of
+the object containing the water.
+- Assign it a NeL water material (see
+\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_water_material.txt for details)
+- Apply mapping coordinates to the surface if you use a diffuse map.
+
+At this point you can see the surface by selecting it and clicking 'View the
+scene'. A GeForce 3 or better is needed to get the water looking good, other
+versions will be done later (older card are supported, but with no bump)
+
+If you want waves on your surface :
+
+- Create a wave maker (Geometry / NeL tools / Wave maker)
+- Assign it the same ID than the water surfaces it must create waves in
+- Go to the object viewer.
+- Edit the water pool properties to get the waves you want (and eventually
+save it). Note that a water pool is shared by several water surfaces (to
+allow waves propagating from one surface to another). Waves can only be seen
+when near the viewer, so you may need to adjust the parameter 'Water Unit
+Size' to a higher value.
+- Export the shapes and the instance groups.
+
+Then you load it in the client, the way you did, and it should work :
+
+ UInstanceGroup  *ig   =
+UInstanceGroup::createInstanceGroup(std::string("water.ig"));
+ ig->addToScene(*scene);
+// setup the water pool then...
+
+If this doesn't work, you could also check wether the shapes are found.
+
+Hope it helps
+
+Regards,
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:58 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+
+
+> Hi,
+>
+> I've been trying to get a Water Pool to work
+> in a client app that is based on the Snowballs
+> client.  I've spent a lot of time trying to
+> figure this out, my pool works fine in the
+> object viewer, but not when I load it into
+> the client along with the WaveMaker shape.
+>
+> One thing I noticed is that CWaterModel::registerBasic()
+> is not called, I tried adding CScene::registerBasics ();
+> and then the CWaterModel is registered... But
+> no pool appears...
+>
+
+> Is it possible to enable the Water Pools using
+> the UDriver concept or should I set up my Driver
+> more like the ObjectViewer does it?
+>
+> Here is how I create the WaterPoolManager after
+> and Instance Group with a WaterShape and WaveMakerShape
+> has been loaded and added to the Scene:
+>
+> WaterPoolManager = &NL3D::GetWaterPoolManager();
+>
+> NL3D::CWaterPoolManager::CWaterHeightMapBuild whmb;
+> whmb.ID   = 0;
+> whmb.Name = "Water01";
+> whmb.Size = 256;
+> whmb.FilterWeight = 3.0f;
+> whmb.UnitSize = 0.3f;
+> whmb.WavesEnabled = true;
+> whmb.WaveIntensity = 1.5f;
+> whmb.WavePeriod = 0.05f;
+> whmb.WaveRadius = 3;
+> whmb.BorderWaves = true;
+> whmb.Damping = 0.99f;
+>
+> WaterPoolManager->createWaterPool(whmb);
+> WaterPoolManager->setBlendFactor(dynamic_cast<IDriver*> (Driver), 0.1f);
+>
+> Any hints would be appreciated...
+>
+> Thanks,
+> Robert Bjarnason
+> robofly@in-orbit.net
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Tue Feb 26 12:36:51 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QBakW10157
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:36:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1QBUUn63752
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:30:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:30:30 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFKEOICDAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+In-Reply-To: <003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I've observed some odd behaviour relating to the water - sometiimes its
+there and sometimes its not...
+
+- Try compiling in different modes and see if it starts working. (one of the
+guys on the Ryzom team has a problem in certain build modes)
+
+- Behaviour may be different on different machines but this remains to be
+confirmed. (I've seen problems on some machines but I can't guarantee that
+they were running the same executables as the machines that run OK)
+
+We haven't looked into how to make the problem repeatable yet - when we do
+we'll fix it.
+
+Cheers
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Nicolas Vizerie
+Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:32 AM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: robofly@in-orbit.net
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+
+
+Hi Robert,
+
+The way you proceed seems correct. Well, for now, you have to create a water
+pool the way the object viewer does, since it isn't exposed by the user
+interface for now. One is provided as the default if you don't create one,
+however. Note that you can also edit the water pool in the object viewer and
+save it, so just do a serial on the water pool then.
+You must also be sure that the normal of the water is pointing towards
+positives z when you create it, it can't work otherwise and will either
+display nothing or garbage.
+
+Here's the complete process anyway:
+
+- Create a convex polygon in the x-y plane where your water surface is. Note
+that the way it is tesselated force you to make it intersect the border of
+the object containing the water.
+- Assign it a NeL water material (see
+\nel\tools\3d\plugin_max\nel_water_material.txt for details)
+- Apply mapping coordinates to the surface if you use a diffuse map.
+
+At this point you can see the surface by selecting it and clicking 'View the
+scene'. A GeForce 3 or better is needed to get the water looking good, other
+versions will be done later (older card are supported, but with no bump)
+
+If you want waves on your surface :
+
+- Create a wave maker (Geometry / NeL tools / Wave maker)
+- Assign it the same ID than the water surfaces it must create waves in
+- Go to the object viewer.
+- Edit the water pool properties to get the waves you want (and eventually
+save it). Note that a water pool is shared by several water surfaces (to
+allow waves propagating from one surface to another). Waves can only be seen
+when near the viewer, so you may need to adjust the parameter 'Water Unit
+Size' to a higher value.
+- Export the shapes and the instance groups.
+
+Then you load it in the client, the way you did, and it should work :
+
+ UInstanceGroup  *ig   =
+UInstanceGroup::createInstanceGroup(std::string("water.ig"));
+ ig->addToScene(*scene);
+// setup the water pool then...
+
+If this doesn't work, you could also check wether the shapes are found.
+
+Hope it helps
+
+Regards,
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:58 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+
+
+> Hi,
+>
+> I've been trying to get a Water Pool to work
+> in a client app that is based on the Snowballs
+> client.  I've spent a lot of time trying to
+> figure this out, my pool works fine in the
+> object viewer, but not when I load it into
+> the client along with the WaveMaker shape.
+>
+> One thing I noticed is that CWaterModel::registerBasic()
+> is not called, I tried adding CScene::registerBasics ();
+> and then the CWaterModel is registered... But
+> no pool appears...
+>
+
+> Is it possible to enable the Water Pools using
+> the UDriver concept or should I set up my Driver
+> more like the ObjectViewer does it?
+>
+> Here is how I create the WaterPoolManager after
+> and Instance Group with a WaterShape and WaveMakerShape
+> has been loaded and added to the Scene:
+>
+> WaterPoolManager = &NL3D::GetWaterPoolManager();
+>
+> NL3D::CWaterPoolManager::CWaterHeightMapBuild whmb;
+> whmb.ID   = 0;
+> whmb.Name = "Water01";
+> whmb.Size = 256;
+> whmb.FilterWeight = 3.0f;
+> whmb.UnitSize = 0.3f;
+> whmb.WavesEnabled = true;
+> whmb.WaveIntensity = 1.5f;
+> whmb.WavePeriod = 0.05f;
+> whmb.WaveRadius = 3;
+> whmb.BorderWaves = true;
+> whmb.Damping = 0.99f;
+>
+> WaterPoolManager->createWaterPool(whmb);
+> WaterPoolManager->setBlendFactor(dynamic_cast<IDriver*> (Driver), 0.1f);
+>
+> Any hints would be appreciated...
+>
+> Thanks,
+> Robert Bjarnason
+> robofly@in-orbit.net
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Tue Feb 26 12:43:56 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QBhuW10328
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:43:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:37:40 Z
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:05:45 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <5969045552.20020226120545@in-orbit.net>
+To: Nicolas Vizerie <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+In-reply-To: <003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+References: <13639829281.20020226035849@in-orbit.net>
+ <003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Nicolas,
+
+NV> Well, for now, you have to create a water pool the way the object viewer does,
+NV> since it isn't exposed by the user interface for now.
+
+I might be missing something in this process of creating
+the water pool the way the object viewer does it...
+
+NV> - Export the shapes and the instance groups.
+
+After making my pool look really good in Object Viewer
+I export the shapes and the instance group.
+
+NV> Then you load it in the client, the way you did, and it should work :
+
+Then I use this code to load the ig:
+
+UInstanceGroup  *waterIg = UInstanceGroup::createInstanceGroup(std::string("9_AO.ig"));
+waterIg->addToScene(*Scene);
+
+WaterPoolManager = &NL3D::GetWaterPoolManager();
+NL3D::CWaterPoolManager::CWaterHeightMapBuild whmb;
+whmb.ID   = 0;
+<-cut whmb setup->
+WaterPoolManager->createWaterPool(whmb);
+nlinfo("Nr of waterpools %d nr.",WaterPoolManager->getNumPools());
+WaterPoolManager->setBlendFactor(dynamic_cast<IDriver*> (Driver), 0.1f);
+
+NV> If this doesn't work, you could also check wether the shapes are found.
+
+The WaterShape is added to the scene I confirmed that
+with debug code.
+
+But this method in CWaterModel is never
+called: void CWaterModel::registerBasic()
+
+This leads me to belive that there is something that I'm
+missing in the setup of the Driver, can this be the case?
+
+Thanks,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Tue Feb 26 13:32:06 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QCW5W11195
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:32:05 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <15483.32442.930531.796099@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:25:30 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+In-Reply-To: Alain Dutech's message of 26 February 2002 11:23:23 +0100
+References: <3C7B621B.B6960243@loria.fr>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Alain Dutech writes:
+ > 
+ > Hi,
+ > 
+ > trying too fixe some latent assert
+ > - constant flow of :
+ > AST12088 debug.h 384 : "dynamic_cast<T>(o)"
+ > 
+ > I compiled nel and snowballs2 with --with-debug
+ > and then
+ > [dutech@crevic client]$ snowballs
+ > INF32265 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+ > WRN32265 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so': /usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so:
+ > undefined symbol: setupUserTextureMatrix__Q24NL3D9CDriverGLUiRQ24NL3D9CMaterial
+ > WRN32265 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+ > Abandon
+ > 
+ > Any hints? I thought Exception were to be catch somewhere...
+
+	setupUserTextureMatrix was previously declared inline in
+driver_opengl.h and that triggered this problem. It was fixed, though. Are
+you using the CVS tree ? If not you should ;-)
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Tue Feb 26 14:00:13 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QD0CW11743
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+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:53:56 Z
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:22:02 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <8073622223.20020226132202@in-orbit.net>
+To: Loic Dachary <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+In-reply-To: <15482.28317.541820.605812@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <E16einC-0001DO-00@freyja.in-orbit.net>
+ <15482.2797.921111.242323@inspiron.dachary.org>
+ <114154010305.20020225150648@in-orbit.net>
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+
+Hi Loic,
+
+LD> Thanks for the pointer. I started to compile it and ran into
+LD> many minor compilation issues (see the patch below). When the server
+LD> refused to link I started to ask myself if I was using the proper code
+LD> base ;-) It looks like part of the client/src should be included in a
+LD> support library so that the server can use it. Are you running into
+LD> the same problems or am I missing something ?
+
+Actually we just started to work on this codebase again,
+last commit was over 3 months ago when things were
+a little different ;)  Thanks for the patch :)
+Michael is working on a re-implementation of the
+server code-base and will commit soon...
+
+And yes we need to separate classes that are common
+with the client and server, those classes are mostly
+game-mech related, definition of dynamic objects,
+weapons and stuff like that.  Next step for us is to
+create those using the NeL level design tools and
+agent system.
+
+When we were last working on this demo, we didn't have
+the tools to create the PACS data for our Landscape, so
+the landscape is from Snowballs.
+
+LD> Also, I guess that I'll need some sample data files at some
+LD> point. Could you tell me where they can be found ?
+
+We'll put the content that is needed in addition to the
+snowballs landscape online soon.
+
+Thanks,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From fmdz@libertysurf.fr Tue Feb 26 15:31:28 2002
+Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91])
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+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:25:09 +0100
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+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi all...
+I'm sorry to disturb every body on a mailling list.
+
+I've just discovered nevrax (by the www.gnu.org/jobs).
+As I'm looking for a job in france, i'll continue in 
+french! ;-)
+
+Je bosse dans une SSII depuis 4 ans, et j'en ai un peu 
+marre de 'jouer au consultant': étant le seul de ma boite 
+à être passioné par les pingouins, j'ai du mal à 
+convaincre les commerciaux de chercher chez leurs clients 
+des missions qui me plaisent réellement (au mieux, je 
+trouve des migrations de serveurs NT->GNU/Linux, des 
+formations, ou des interventions 'pompier')
+
+En bref, le boulot 'du jour' n'est pas passionnant, alors 
+je bosse chez moi sur OpenGL, puis sur Performer (Silicon 
+Graphics). Je peux fournir des screenshots de ce que je 
+fais sur demande.
+Je suis 'spécialisé' dans les scènes d'extérieur, et je 
+commence à me construire mon petit simulateur d'engins 
+(pas un vrai truc d'avion, mais plutôt du style science 
+fiction...), soft + hard. 
+
+Le salaire n'est pas ma principale préoccupation, je 
+cherche avant tout à m'éclater sur un projet dynamique.
+
+Je maitrise C/C++, assembleur x86, openGL (avec 
+extensions Nvidia), openPerformer, (le système GNU/linux, 
+si on peut prétendre le maitriser un peu), les scripts 
+shell, PostGres, les outils de développement, je me 
+débrouille en anglais, et (point important), je suis 
+musicien.
+Je précise que je suis musicien&compositeur (guitares 
+acoustiques, banjo, violon, armonica, claviers,...) car 
+il me semble que la créativité est le fondement de 
+l'informatique. 
+
+Sinon, j'ai fait dans mon jeune temps un noyau multitache 
+qui tournait pas mal (gestion de la mémoire et des 
+taches, architecture générale des drivers, interface 
+graphique spécifique). 100% assembleur x86, sans appel 
+bios (mode protégé oblige). Bon, quand j'ai découverts 
+GNU/linux, j'ai arreté mon projet. ;-) Mais ca m'a permis 
+de connaitre à fond les x86, et surtout les principes de 
+base d'un OS. Mais je m'écarte de mon sujet principal, 
+là...
+
+Pratique courante:
+ODE (www.q12.org SDK pour simulation Physique)
+perl, php, html, jsp, javascript...
+java
+installation/configuration de serveurs (Apache/tomcat, 
+ftp, mail...)
+formation des administrateurs chez qui j'installe les 
+serveurs (sécurité, openPGP, md5sum, exploitation)
+tous les outils multimédias de GNU/Linux (Gimp en 
+particulier)
+je suis de près les évolutions des noyaux, Gnome, KDE, 
+mplayer, ...
+
+
+Voila voila... Le profil idéal pour pas mal de postes! ;-)
+S'il existe ici une bonne âme qui veuille bien me sauver 
+de la corde (non, quand même pas, mais c'est pas bon pour 
+le moral de faire un boulot uniquement nouricier...).
+
+Je suis preneur pour toute proposition décente!
+
+Merci d'avance
+Fred
+--------------
+Profitez de l'offre spéciale Tiscali Liberty Surf !
+50% de temps en plus pendant 3 mois sur tous les forfaits Internet.
+
+http://register.libertysurf.fr/subscribe_fr/signup.php3
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Feb 26 15:55:15 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QEtFW13742
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:55:15 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1QEn0n66510;
+	Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:49:00 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <009401c1bed4$b9e855c0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <fmdz@libertysurf.fr>
+References: <GS59DX$IM0JtOcwgo8boGXCl6hrsIPFgwZxYm2tXgUhxo7UGo8h18@tiscali.fr>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:49:00 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+The goal of this list is to discuss about NeL (Nevrax Library) and not the
+corporate (Nevrax).
+To apply for a job, send a mail to jobs@nevrax.com and please don't send
+french mail here.
+
+Thanks
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From guillaume@morinfr.org Tue Feb 26 18:40:37 2002
+Received: from siri (ns1.alcove-solutions.com [212.155.209.139])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QHeaW16348
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:40:36 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from guillaume@morinfr.org)
+Received: from guillaum by siri with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16flXJ-0008O2-00; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:37:09 +0100
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:37:09 +0100
+From: Guillaume Morin <guillaume@morinfr.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: loic@gnu.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+Message-ID: <20020226173709.GF596@morinfr.org>
+Mail-Followup-To: nel@nevrax.org, loic@gnu.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Alain,
+
+> [dutech@crevic client]$ snowballs
+> INF32265 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+> WRN32265 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library
+> 'libnel_drv_opengl.so': /usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so:
+> undefined symbol:
+> setupUserTextureMatrix__Q24NL3D9CDriverGLUiRQ24NL3D9CMaterial
+> WRN32265 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched:
+> libnel_drv_opengl.so not found
+> Abandon
+
+hmm, I can reproduce this problem with today's CVS.
+I've tried to modify the source following Loic's advice :
+
+--- src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp.old	Tue Feb 26 18:20:38 2002
++++ src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp	Tue Feb 26 18:20:50 2002
+@@ -104,7 +104,7 @@
+ 
+ 
+ // --------------------------------------------------
+-inline void CDriverGL::setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat)
++void CDriverGL::setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat)
+ {
+ 	ITexture	*text= mat.getTexture(stage);
+ 	if(text)
+@@ -138,7 +138,7 @@
+ 
+ 
+ //--------------------------------
+-inline void CDriverGL::setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat)
++void CDriverGL::setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat)
+ { 
+ 	if (
+ 		(_UserTexMatEnabled != 0 && (mat.getFlags() & IDRV_MAT_USER_TEX_MAT_ALL) == 0)		
+
+
+This fixes the problem for me.
+
+I still do not understand one thing (sorry I learnt some C++ at school,
+but I miss some real life experience). If I apply this patch instead :
+
+--- driver_opengl.h.old	Tue Feb 26 17:27:52 2002
++++ driver_opengl.h	Tue Feb 26 18:32:29 2002
+@@ -381,10 +381,10 @@
+ 	virtual void			forceTextureResize(uint divisor);
+ 
+ 	/// Setup texture env functions. Used by setupMaterial
+-	void				setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat);
++	inline void				setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat);
+ 
+ 	/// setup the texture matrix for a given number of stages (starting from 0)
+-	void      setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat);
++	inline void      setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat);
+ 
+ 	/// For objects with caustics, setup the first texture (which actually is the one from the material)
+ 	/*static inline void		setupCausticsFirstTex(const CMaterial &mat);
+
+snowballs still complains.
+
+Any hints ?
+
+-- 
+Guillaume Morin <guillaume@morinfr.org>
+
+                 People get the operating system they deserve.
+
+From david.mentre@wanadoo.fr Tue Feb 26 23:29:24 2002
+Received: from mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr (smtp-out-1.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.188])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QMTJW51304
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:29:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from david.mentre@wanadoo.fr)
+Received: from mel-rta5.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.122) by mel-rto1.wanadoo.fr; 26 Feb 2002 23:23:00 +0100
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+	id 16fpzb-0000Gf-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:22:39 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: NeL and old graphic cards (was Re: [Nel] Particule assert)
+References: <15477.29277.101283.905300@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<3C75FBCC.A676F03E@loria.fr>
+	<15478.5954.781447.858445@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<3C76242E.EA25D7E6@loria.fr> <87k7t2fyq7.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+	<00c701c1bdfc$3e699680$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <87pu2tb3v7.fsf@wanadoo.fr>
+	<001c01c1bea3$b0bb5be0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: David MENTRE <david.mentre@wanadoo.fr>
+Organization: none
+Date: 26 Feb 2002 23:22:38 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <001c01c1bea3$b0bb5be0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <87heo3rihd.fsf_-_@wanadoo.fr>
+Lines: 54
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello Vianney,
+
+"Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> We plan to port the 3d lib as many recent 3d card as possible and we could
+> fix this font problem but it will not be before the midlle/end of
+> summer.
+
+Greet! (However, I don't know if you put my rage128 graphic card in the
+recent category ;-)
+
+> We can add this on the OSS community task list :)
+
+I've seen the hint but can't help you for that. I'm a newbie to OpenGL
+programming and C++. :(
+
+BTW, I've compiled the latest CVS tree and observed the following
+behaviors: 
+
+ - NeL seems slower. Can't give framerate figures as the fonts are
+   unreadable but the GNU is definitely more sensitive and less reactive
+   to mouse mouvements (i.e. it is hardly playable)
+
+ - code/nel can't be compiled with --enable-ai. Here is the error:
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../include -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -ftemplate-depth-24 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/Installed/STLport4.5//include/stlport -Wp,-MD,.deps/baseai.pp -c baseai.cpp     -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/baseai.lo
+In file included from ../../../include/nel/ai/agent/ident.h:33,
+                 from ../../../include/nel/ai/agent/baseai.h:34,
+                 from ../../../include/nel/ai/agent/agent_operator.h:29,
+                 from ../../../include/nel/ai/agent/agent_object.h:30,
+                 from ../../../include/nel/ai/agent/msg.h:30,
+                 from ../../../include/nel/ai/agent/mailbox.h:28,
+                 from ../../../include/nel/ai/agent/agentexport.h:49,
+                 from baseai.cpp:24:
+../../../include/nel/ai/agent/identtype.h: In method `NLAIAGENT::CAgentNumber::CAgentNumber(long long unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char)':
+../../../include/nel/ai/agent/identtype.h:57: no matching function for call to `NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId (uint64 &, uint8 &, uint8 &)'
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:60: candidates are: NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId()
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:68:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(unsigned char, long long unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char)
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:76:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(unsigned char, long long unsigned int)
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:84:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(long long unsigned int)
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:95:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(const NLMISC::CEntityId &)
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:104:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(NLMISC::IStream &)
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:118:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(const char *)
+../../../include/nel/ai/agent/identtype.h: In method `NLAIAGENT::CAgentNumber::CAgentNumber(long long unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char, unsigned char)':../../../include/nel/ai/agent/identtype.h:62: no matching function for call to `NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId (uint64 &, uint8 &, uint8 &)'
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:60: candidates are: NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId()
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:68:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(unsigned char, long long unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char)
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:76:                 NLMISC::CEntityId::CEntityId(unsigned char, long long unsigned int)
+../../../include/nel/misc/entity_id.h:84:
+NLMISC::CEntityId::CEnt
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ david.mentre@wanadoo.fr
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Tue Feb 26 20:51:14 2002
+Received: from relay-3v.club-internet.fr (relay-3v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.114])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1QJpDW32039
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:51:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
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+	by relay-3v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 037FF1716
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+Message-ID: <000501c1befe$0f7808e0$035bc2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:44:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] How to build my own landscape ?
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello , i see there are many tools in nel directory
+It s possible to have a file that describe what they do ?
+
+I would like to build my own landscape, is there a tools like World Craft
+for Half life game ?
+What tools are you using to build world of ryzom ? Can u distribute it ?
+I found one named LevelDesign, it s this tools ?
+I try to build it , but there are some directory link mistake and some files
+miss ( I download file with CVS snapshot  and i m able to compile snowball
+an run it ). Is this tools finished ?
+
+Thanks
+
+
+
+
+From vizerie@nevrax.com Wed Feb 27 12:42:39 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1RBgdW44629
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:42:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nicolasv (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1RBaOn75682;
+	Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:36:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005c01c1bf82$fd59a990$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+From: "Nicolas Vizerie" <vizerie@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Cc: <robert@in-orbit.net>
+References: <13639829281.20020226035849@in-orbit.net><003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv> <5969045552.20020226120545@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:36:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Robert,
+
+That seems to be a bug : I was able to reproduce that in release build. It
+comes from the ordering of transparent objects. I found that a bitfield in a
+COrderingLayeredTable was not working correctly with Visual C++ in release
+build only (in the begin() method). Tracing it showed that it may be a
+compiler bug. I split it in several fields and it solved the problem. The
+fix will be available on the CVS.
+If this doesn't solve your problem, could you report it ?
+Thanks.
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+To: "Nicolas Vizerie" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:05 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+
+
+> Hi Nicolas,
+>
+> NV> Well, for now, you have to create a water pool the way the object
+viewer does,
+> NV> since it isn't exposed by the user interface for now.
+>
+> I might be missing something in this process of creating
+> the water pool the way the object viewer does it...
+>
+> NV> - Export the shapes and the instance groups.
+>
+> After making my pool look really good in Object Viewer
+> I export the shapes and the instance group.
+>
+> NV> Then you load it in the client, the way you did, and it should work :
+>
+> Then I use this code to load the ig:
+>
+> UInstanceGroup  *waterIg =
+UInstanceGroup::createInstanceGroup(std::string("9_AO.ig"));
+> waterIg->addToScene(*Scene);
+>
+> WaterPoolManager = &NL3D::GetWaterPoolManager();
+> NL3D::CWaterPoolManager::CWaterHeightMapBuild whmb;
+> whmb.ID   = 0;
+> <-cut whmb setup->
+> WaterPoolManager->createWaterPool(whmb);
+> nlinfo("Nr of waterpools %d nr.",WaterPoolManager->getNumPools());
+> WaterPoolManager->setBlendFactor(dynamic_cast<IDriver*> (Driver), 0.1f);
+>
+> NV> If this doesn't work, you could also check wether the shapes are
+found.
+>
+> The WaterShape is added to the scene I confirmed that
+> with debug code.
+>
+> But this method in CWaterModel is never
+> called: void CWaterModel::registerBasic()
+>
+> This leads me to belive that there is something that I'm
+> missing in the setup of the Driver, can this be the case?
+>
+> Thanks,
+> Robert
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From delirec@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net Wed Feb 27 13:54:41 2002
+Received: from NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net ([66.78.34.31])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1RCsZW52775
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:54:41 +0100 (CET)
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+	id 16g3U7-0000Z3-00
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:47:03 -0500
+From: "Dennis McGregor" <dns@delire.cz>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25
+X-IPAddress: 203.54.16.72
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Message-Id: <E16g3U7-0000Z3-00@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net>
+Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:47:03 -0500
+X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net
+Subject: [Nel] Re: Compilation problems
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: dns@delire.cz
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I apologise if this message comes through twice.
+
+>>There aren't any old libxml files hanging around, ldconfig doesn't
+>> complain about the libs that are there, and running xml2-config
+outputs
+>> the information correctly (though, perhaps I should mention that I
+>> erased the -lz flag from `xml2-config --libs` because ld complained
+>> about it during the make process (bad?)).
+[...]
+> >mutex.cpp:246: `PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP' undeclared (first use this
+     function)
+
+>   PTHREAD_MUTEX_ADAPTIVE_NP should be in pthread.h that is located in
+the
+>   standard include directory (/usr/include on my system).
+
+/usr/include/pthread.h exists. ( too old? What would I check to answer
+that question? )
+
+However, perhaps this is irrelevant, but checking the config.log after I
+run 
+configure without the --disable-xmltest flag - it seems that configure 
+trips up as it tries to include xmlversion.h, which _is_ being pointed
+to
+correctly by xml2-config. I don't know if the 2 problems with headers 
+are related or not. 
+
+Dennis.
+
+ps: please let me know if there is a more appropriate forum for bugging
+people with
+such luser evel q's.
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Feb 27 15:40:56 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1REeuW62576
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:40:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1REYfn78122
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00aa01c1bf9b$e40bf6f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:34:40 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+We'll try to add more news to the www.nevrax.org site and inform you on the
+NeL team progress.
+
+We added a new webpage that contains a suggested task list for the free
+software community who want to work and help us on our project :
+http://www.nevrax.org/suggest/
+
+Loic, if you want, we can add a link to your web page that contains binaries
+or you can send me your binaries and put them on nevrax.org.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From nicolas_maurel@hotmail.com Wed Feb 27 16:45:38 2002
+Received: from hotmail.com ([207.68.163.30])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1RFjbW70890
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:45:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from nicolas_maurel@hotmail.com)
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+	 Wed, 27 Feb 2002 07:39:17 -0800
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+	Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:39:16 GMT
+X-Originating-IP: [193.248.90.203]
+From: "nicolas maurel" <nicolas_maurel@hotmail.com>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:39:16 +0000
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
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+X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2002 15:39:17.0190 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA70FE60:01C1BFA4]
+Subject: [Nel] NeWT
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+Hello,
+
+I've got  any questions about NeWT who developped it? who can I contact?
+
+thanks for your answer
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. 
+http://www.hotmail.com/fr
+
+
+From yanbab@yanbab.org Wed Feb 27 18:13:53 2002
+Received: from smtp.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1RHDrW82471
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:13:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from yanbab@yanbab.org)
+Received: (qmail 9630317 invoked by uid 0); 27 Feb 2002 17:07:32 -0000
+Received: from unknown (HELO localhost.localdomain) ([195.132.130.145]) (envelope-sender <yanbab@yanbab.org>)
+          by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 27 Feb 2002 17:07:32 -0000
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeWT
+From: Yan Babilliot <yanbab@yanbab.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Cc: nicolas_maurel@hotmail.com
+In-Reply-To: <F301J2mYl0psNK2v9eH0000ebfa@hotmail.com>
+References: <F301J2mYl0psNK2v9eH0000ebfa@hotmail.com>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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+Date: 27 Feb 2002 18:08:59 +0100
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+le mer 27-02-2002 à 16:39, nicolas maurel a écrit :
+> Hello,
+> 
+> I've got  any questions about NeWT who developped it? who can I contact?
+> 
+
+Hi,
+I am the main NeWT developer. You can get it on http://newt.nevrax.org/.
+There is no mailing-list yet, just drop me a mail if you have any
+questions.
+Cheers,
+Yan Babilliot. 
+
+> thanks for your answer
+> 
+> _________________________________________________________________
+> Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. 
+> http://www.hotmail.com/fr
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+
+
+From jlubao@mediaone.net Thu Feb 28 03:21:06 2002
+Received: from jxmls04.se.mediaone.net (jxmls04.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.51])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1S2L0W17455
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:21:01 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jlubao@mediaone.net)
+Received: from WASP (pomew-2-65-34-213-17.pompano.net [65.34.213.17])
+	by jxmls04.se.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1S2Af106213
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:10:46 -0500 (EST)
+Message-ID: <000e01c1bffe$37ecaaa0$11d52241@WASP>
+From: "Jay Lubao" <jlubao@mediaone.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:18:26 -0500
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BFD4.4BC99A80"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300
+Subject: [Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BFD4.4BC99A80
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="Windows-1252"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Greetings all! Been compiling this bad boy for a while.
+I made sure I received all the needed software and successfully
+compiled Nel, Nelns, but when I go to compile Snowballs2.exe
+I get the following error.
+
+\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\bounding_box.obj=20
+\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\bounding_sphere.obj=20
+\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\env_effect.obj=20
+\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\mixing_track.obj=20
+\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\sound.obj=20
+\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\stdsound.obj=20
+..\obj\ReleaseDebug\nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib=20
+LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file =
+"..\obj\ReleaseDebug\nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+snowballs.exe - 1 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+-----------------------------------------------------
+
+Now, my question is, where in the heck is this file? It wasn't made
+when I compiled the libraries for Nel & Nelns, but it wants it anyway!
+Any help would be appreciated! :)
+
+- Jay Lubao
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BFD4.4BC99A80
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="Windows-1252"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Dwindows-1252">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4913.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greetings all! Been compiling this bad =
+boy for a=20
+while.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I made sure I received all the needed =
+software and=20
+successfully</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>compiled Nel, Nelns, but when I go to =
+compile=20
+Snowballs2.exe</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I get the following error.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\bounding_box.obj=20
+<BR>\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\bounding_sphere.obj=20
+<BR>\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\env_effect.obj=20
+<BR>\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\mixing_track.obj=20
+<BR>\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\sound.obj=20
+<BR>\TEST\nel\obj\ReleaseDebug\stdsound.obj=20
+<BR>..\obj\ReleaseDebug\nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib <BR>LINK : fatal error =
+LNK1181:=20
+cannot open input file =
+"..\obj\ReleaseDebug\nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"<BR>Error=20
+executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>snowballs.exe - 1 error(s), 1=20
+warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>-----------------------------------------------------</FONT></DI=
+V>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now, my question is, where in the heck =
+is this=20
+file? It wasn't made</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>when I compiled the libraries for Nel =
+&amp; Nelns,=20
+but it wants it anyway!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any help would be appreciated! =
+:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- Jay Lubao</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BFD4.4BC99A80--
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Thu Feb 28 04:54:02 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1S3s2W27282
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 04:54:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:47:39 Z
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 04:15:42 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <5213642631.20020228041542@in-orbit.net>
+To: Nicolas Vizerie <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+In-reply-To: <005c01c1bf82$fd59a990$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+References: 
+ <13639829281.20020226035849@in-orbit.net><003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+ <5969045552.20020226120545@in-orbit.net>
+ <005c01c1bf82$fd59a990$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Nicolas,
+
+NV> That seems to be a bug : I was able to reproduce that in release build. It
+NV> comes from the ordering of transparent objects. I found that a bitfield in a
+NV> COrderingLayeredTable was not working correctly with Visual C++ in release
+NV> build only (in the begin() method). Tracing it showed that it may be a
+NV> compiler bug. I split it in several fields and it solved the problem. The
+NV> fix will be available on the CVS.
+NV> If this doesn't solve your problem, could you report it ?
+
+It did solve my problem, thank you very much.
+I had also tried running it in ReleaseDebug and
+it had the same behavior there but works fine in
+both now.
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Feb 28 09:44:14 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1S8iDW58631
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:44:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16gM4H-0000IZ-00
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+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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+Message-ID: <15485.60497.618149.56812@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:37:37 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+In-Reply-To: Robert Bjarnason's message of 28 February 2002 04:15:42 -0800
+References: <13639829281.20020226035849@in-orbit.net>
+	<003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+	<5969045552.20020226120545@in-orbit.net>
+	<005c01c1bf82$fd59a990$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+	<5213642631.20020228041542@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
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+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+Robert Bjarnason writes:
+ > Hi Nicolas,
+ > 
+ > NV> That seems to be a bug : I was able to reproduce that in release build. It
+ > NV> comes from the ordering of transparent objects. I found that a bitfield in a
+ > NV> COrderingLayeredTable was not working correctly with Visual C++ in release
+ > NV> build only (in the begin() method). Tracing it showed that it may be a
+ > NV> compiler bug. I split it in several fields and it solved the problem. The
+ > NV> fix will be available on the CVS.
+ > NV> If this doesn't solve your problem, could you report it ?
+ > 
+ > It did solve my problem, thank you very much.
+ > I had also tried running it in ReleaseDebug and
+ > it had the same behavior there but works fine in
+ > both now.
+ > 
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Could you please commit the corresponding changes to the
+:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bang CVS tree so that we can
+try them ?
+
+	Thanks in advance,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 28 01:01:49 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1S01mW07601
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:01:48 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from me@lars.in-berlin.de)
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+	(authenticated bits=0)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:55:32 +0100
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:59:13 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: Lars Weber <me@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Date: 28 Feb 2002 00:59:13 +0100
+Message-ID: <87k7syh3xq.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 36
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] ./configure strangeness
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello all,
+
+can anyone here tell me why the following fails:
+
+ root[/usr/local/src/snowball/snowballs2]: ./configure \
+  --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/lib \
+  --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/include/stlport \
+  --with-nel-lib=/usr/local/lib \
+  --with-nel-include=/usr/local/src/nel/include  --disable-serve
+
+ ---8<---
+ checking for STLPort headers... /usr/local/include/stlport
+ checking for STLPort libraries... no
+ configure: error: STLPort must be installed (http://www.stlport.org).
+ --->8---
+
+but this one works:
+
+ root[/usr/local/src/snowball/snowballs2]: ./configure \
+  --with-stlport-lib= /usr/local/lib \
+  --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/include/stlport \
+  --with-nel-lib=/usr/local/lib \
+  --with-nel-include=/usr/local/src/nel/include  --disable-serve
+
+(The ` ' after --with-stlport-lib= is the only difference!)
+
+The source was downloaded from http://www.nevrax.org/download/cvs/ a few
+hours ago.
+
+Thanks,
+Lars
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Thu Feb 28 01:01:56 2002
+Received: from relay-3v.club-internet.fr (relay-3v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.114])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1S01tW07606
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:01:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns04v-4-218.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.63.218])
+	by relay-3v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 4D81B16D5
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:55:39 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000801c1bfea$3ab0ead0$da3fc2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:55:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10"
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello all  ,=20
+ok i have understood that the only way to make my landscape is to use =
+3DS max.
+
+ok i have compile ligo project and 3ds max plugins , i have some Dll, =
+Dlu plugin install in 3DS max directory but now i do ?  :)=20
+i see that i can execute some script but i dont understand what to do =
+with.=20
+
+Is somebody can tell me the how to begin ? i just want to make a very =
+little landscape  ( a plane is sufficient ! )=20
+
+
+thansk all=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all&nbsp; , </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ok i have understood that the only way =
+to make my=20
+landscape is to use 3DS max.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ok i have compile ligo project and 3ds =
+max plugins=20
+, i have some Dll, Dlu plugin install in 3DS max directory but now i do =
+?&nbsp;=20
+:) </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i see that i can execute some script =
+but i dont=20
+understand what to do with. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is somebody can tell me the how to =
+begin ? i just=20
+want to make a very little landscape&nbsp; ( a plane is sufficient ! )=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thansk all </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10--
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Thu Feb 28 01:03:03 2002
+Received: from relay-4v.club-internet.fr (relay-4v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.115])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1S033W07719
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+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
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+Message-ID: <000d01c1bfea$62dfef60$da3fc2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:56:33 +0100
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+Subject: [Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max ( mail without HTML )
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello all  ,
+ok i have understood that the only way to make my landscape is to use 3DS
+max.
+
+ok i have compile ligo project and 3ds max plugins , i have some Dll, Dlu
+plugin install in 3DS max directory but now i do ?  :)
+i see that i can execute some script but i dont understand what to do with.
+
+Is somebody can tell me the how to begin ? i just want to make a very little
+landscape  ( a plane is sufficient ! )
+
+
+thansk all
+
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 28 01:46:13 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1S0kDW10127
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:46:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from me@lars.in-berlin.de)
+Received: from psych-o-mat (port-213-20-230-164.reverse.qdsl-home.de [213.20.230.164])
+	(authenticated bits=0)
+	by hirsch.in-berlin.de (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -2) with ESMTP id g1S0dvWM000675
+	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:39:57 +0100
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+X-Envelope-To: <nel@nevrax.org>
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+	id 16gEkU-00024G-00
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+To: nel@nevrax.org
+References: <87k7syh3xq.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+From: Lars Weber <me@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Date: 28 Feb 2002 01:43:38 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87k7syh3xq.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Message-ID: <87g03mh1vp.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 31
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] Re: ./configure strangeness
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Lars Weber <me@lars.in-berlin.de> wrote:
+>  root[/usr/local/src/snowball/snowballs2]: ./configure \
+>   --with-stlport-lib=/usr/local/lib \
+>   --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/include/stlport \
+>   --with-nel-lib=/usr/local/lib \
+>   --with-nel-include=/usr/local/src/nel/include  --disable-serve
+
+I'm still not sure why the above fails...
+
+>  root[/usr/local/src/snowball/snowballs2]: ./configure \
+>   --with-stlport-lib= /usr/local/lib \
+>   --with-stlport-include=/usr/local/include/stlport \
+>   --with-nel-lib=/usr/local/lib \
+>   --with-nel-include=/usr/local/src/nel/include  --disable-serve
+
+but this one is just me beeing stupid!
+
+I didn't notice the
+  `configure: warning: /usr/local/lib: invalid host type'
+in the output.
+
+Compiling with no argument to --with-stlport-lib seems to work better than
+with the one I use above for whatever reason.
+
+Sorry,
+Lars
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Thu Feb 28 11:12:40 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1SACdW68790
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:12:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1SA6Nn86140
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:06:23 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003701c1c03f$93a65a30$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000e01c1bffe$37ecaaa0$11d52241@WASP>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:06:23 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="Windows-1252"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+>LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file
+"..\obj\ReleaseDebug\nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+>snowballs.exe - 1 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+The nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib is created when you compile the
+nel\src\sound\driver\sound_lowlevel.dsp that should included in the
+snowballs2.dsw.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Thu Feb 28 13:49:41 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1SCnfW74649
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:49:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:43:24 Z
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:11:26 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
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+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <63245786392.20020228131126@in-orbit.net>
+To: neuser jean-philippe <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+In-reply-To: <000d01c1bfea$62dfef60$da3fc2d4@kissmaniac>
+References: <000d01c1bfea$62dfef60$da3fc2d4@kissmaniac>
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Neuser,
+
+njp> Is somebody can tell me the how to begin ? i just want to make a very little
+njp> landscape  ( a plane is sufficient ! )
+
+There is an outline for generating the Landscape at
+http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-October/000654.html
+
+I'll give you my perspective that you can
+check out in addition to the above mailing-list
+post. (This is a more hand on approach compared
+to Ligo, I'm not sure my self how to use Ligo):
+
+You have to install the plugins in Plugin_MAX:
+nel_export, nel_patch_converter, nel_patch_paint,
+and tile_utility.
+
+You need to install and compile zone_dependencies,
+zone_welder, zone_lighter and zone_ig_lighter. And
+set up you tools/3d/build_game_data correctly (it
+is good to use the Cygwin tools when dealing
+with the command-line interface of the build_game_data
+tools.  Set the build_game_data config to only
+process zone and rbank if you are not processing
+something else.  Also you have to install the PACS
+collision processing tools for the rbank process.
+
+0. Open an empty MAX project.
+1. Set the MAX units to Generic Units.
+2. Create a Quad-Patch with 4-5 segments
+3. Set the size of the Patch to 160x160
+4. Find out the positions the Patches need to be, positions are
+fixed based on the name you give the Patch. For example
+if you have a Patch that you decide to call 8_AN the position
+if that patch would be 2160(x), -1200(y) in the Max world space.
+5. Name the patch the Zonename you decide to start with for
+example you could start with 8_AN at above position.
+6. Clone the Patch you just created.
+7. Set the name and position correctly by using a new zone
+name and corresponding absolute world position. If you set the
+name to 8_AO then the position will be 2320(x), -1200(y) it
+seems to me that the x position changes with the letter
+counting in the end of the Zonename and the y position changes
+with the numbers in the front of the name.
+8. Now clone as many patches as you like to create a plane that
+is the Landscape. Make sure to use the right Patch/Zone names
+and their position are correct.
+9. Now you got a Plane with x many Patches.
+10. Deform the Patches as you like using the Edit Patch modifier,
+a standard tool in Max.  You can also use a Displacement map
+at this point, just use the appropriate modifier in MAX.
+11. Now you have shaped the Landscape as you want.
+12. Find the NelConvert modifier in the MAX menu, apply it
+to all the patches.
+13. Now select Tools and find the tool called Nel Tile Bank,
+use this tool to select the Tile Bank you have created. The
+Tile Banks hold all textures, transition maps, displacement
+maps (for making geometric noise) and info about what
+vegetations set is connected to tiles.
+14. Select the first Patch you want to paint and make that
+selected Patch fill up your Perspective View.
+15. Find and select the NeL Patch Painter and apply that
+modifier to the Patch.
+16. Press the Paint button in the NeL Patch Painter, Geometry
+roll-out.
+17. Now you can Paint you patch with the tool that pops up.
+The key definition is included in the src archive of the
+nel_patch_paint plugin.
+18. Quit the paint tool and select the next Patch to paint.
+19. Finish painting all your Patches.
+20. Run the build_game_data ./0_setup.bat.
+20. Select all your Patches/Zones and use the Export Model
+function in the NeL Export tool.  Save them into your
+build_game_data/processes/zone/zone_exported folder
+manually using ./3_build.bat or use build_game_data
+to automatically export the Patches from Max using
+the scripting interface, then use ./2_export.bat.
+21. Copy your shapes into processes/shapes/shapes, your
+.smallbank tile file into processes/smallbank/smallbank
+and you instance_groups into processes/ig/ig_land.
+21. Change all the config files in build_game_data to
+reflect the names you decided on for the Patches/Zones.
+22. If you are exporting the Patches/Zones manually
+then use: ./3_build.bat if you are exporting the
+Patches/Zones automatically use ./2.export.bat.
+22. Now Landscape will be welded and lit and the
+final result appear in zone_lighted in the process/zone
+tree. And the lit instance groups will appear in
+process/zone/ig_land_lighted.
+23. Your collision files will be in processes/rbank/output
+
+This was from the top of my head... It's not very
+complete especially tile creation and build_game_data
+parts.  Feel free to ask if you have specific
+questions.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Bjarnason
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Thu Feb 28 13:55:05 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1SCt4W74805
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:55:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:48:35 Z
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:16:37 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <153246097509.20020228131637@in-orbit.net>
+To: Loic Dachary <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re[6]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+In-reply-To: <15485.60497.618149.56812@inspiron.dachary.org>
+References: <13639829281.20020226035849@in-orbit.net>
+ <003801c1beb0$e30e6ee0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+ <5969045552.20020226120545@in-orbit.net>
+ <005c01c1bf82$fd59a990$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+ <5213642631.20020228041542@in-orbit.net>
+ <15485.60497.618149.56812@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g1SCt4W74805
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Loic,
+
+LD>         Could you please commit the corresponding changes to the
+LD> :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bang CVS tree so that we can
+LD> try them ?
+
+Nicolas at Nevrax made those changes and they were committed to
+the Nevrax CVS tree yesterday.
+
+The demo app I'm using to load the Water Pools has a minor
+addition that has to do with enabling the WaterPoolManager.
+I will upload that code tree to our new development server
+at http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/bang/ in the next
+few days. We decided to leave SourceForge because of the
+recent changes in there hosting licence.
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert Bjarnason
+
+
+
+From jay.bradley@ed.ac.uk Thu Feb 28 16:58:06 2002
+Received: from grassmarket.ucs.ed.ac.uk (grassmarket.ucs.ed.ac.uk [129.215.166.64])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1SFw6W77457
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:58:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from jay.bradley@ed.ac.uk)
+Received: from turriff.dai.ed.ac.uk (turriff.dai.ed.ac.uk [129.215.41.225])
+	by grassmarket.ucs.ed.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1SFpnL19700
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:51:49 GMT
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:51:49 +0000 (GMT)
+From: <jay.bradley@ed.ac.uk>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0202281541070.10155-100000@turriff.dai.ed.ac.uk>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
+Subject: [Nel] Agent control
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+X-Reply-To: <jay.bradley@ed.ac.uk>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+Does anybody have any examples of code for a server side agent? I've been looking
+at the code for quite some time now, but can't work out where to
+start. I'm using an external agent architecture for my PhD
+research and would like to write some interface code to NeL. As the
+documentation for agents is non-existent I'm having great difficulty.
+
+Any example code or documentation would be great,
+
+Jay Bradley
+
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Thu Feb 28 17:59:02 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1SGx2W78309
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:59:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g1SGqjn91745
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:52:45 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <013101c1c078$58a0b460$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0202281541070.10155-100000@turriff.dai.ed.ac.uk>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Agent control
+Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:52:45 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi jay,
+i would like to help you on doc search, but at present we have french doc.
+at
+this time, we work on a linux config pack, i have to do one or two
+things to it then i'll put it on cvs.
+In this config you'll find a version of an active agent service, at present
+my problem is to cut game dependent data. It isn't necessarily long to
+make but i have to have time to do it correctly and cleanly.
+in the mean time, i'll put a source for a minimal agent manager. This could
+allow
+user to create friendly agent.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <jay.bradley@ed.ac.uk>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:51 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Agent control
+
+
+> Hi,
+>
+> Does anybody have any examples of code for a server side agent? I've been
+looking
+> at the code for quite some time now, but can't work out where to
+> start. I'm using an external agent architecture for my PhD
+> research and would like to write some interface code to NeL. As the
+> documentation for agents is non-existent I'm having great difficulty.
+>
+> Any example code or documentation would be great,
+>
+> Jay Bradley
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Mar  1 10:07:55 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2197sW94918
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:07:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2191cn95969
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:01:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <001601c1c0ff$b29cd2a0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:01:38 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] News
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+Some news on the www.nevrax.org:
+
+-You will find Snowballs binaries on our web site in the download section.
+Currently, we only have Windows binaries but feel free to send us some other
+versions (e.g. GNU/Linux tarballs, debian packages and so on). Please, send
+them to lecroart@nevrax.com
+
+Next news to come:
+
+- A little explanation of the new network system, CTransportClass, that
+provides class comunication between services using network layer 5.
+
+Other news:
+
+-NeL now uses pch (precompilated header) that speed up the compilation on
+windows.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Fri Mar  1 00:58:40 2002
+Received: from relay-3v.club-internet.fr (relay-3v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.114])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1SNweW85042
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:58:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
+Received: from kissmaniac (lns07v-8-4.w.club-internet.fr [212.194.139.4])
+	by relay-3v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B7D3169C
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri,  1 Mar 2002 00:52:23 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000901c1c0b2$eeb733e0$048bc2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:52:07 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello ,
+ok i am near to find how to make a landscape
+i have to make my own tile but i dont have any texture and all texture of
+snowball demo have been converted to DSS format.
+
+Is it possible to have the texture in TGA format or make tools  DSStoTGA
+
+A+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Fri Mar  1 12:02:14 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21B2EW96397
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:02:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g21Atvn97387
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:55:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00c201c1c10f$c376fd70$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <000901c1c0b2$eeb733e0$048bc2d4@kissmaniac>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:56:38 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Using NeL, it should be something like:
+
+#include <nel/misc/file.h>
+#include <nel/misc/bitmap.h>
+
+using namespace NL3D;
+using namespace NLMISC;
+
+void main ()
+{
+    CIFile input;
+    if (input.open ("texture.dds"))
+    {
+        CBitmap bitmap;
+        bitmap.load (input);
+        bitmap.convertToType (CBitmap::RGBA);
+        
+        COFile output;
+        if (output.open ("texture.tga"))
+        { 
+            bitmap.writeTGA (output, 32);
+        }
+    }
+}
+
+Hld.
+
+
+
+From neuser.jp@club-internet.fr Fri Mar  1 15:00:18 2002
+Received: from relay-4v.club-internet.fr (relay-4v.club-internet.fr [194.158.96.115])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21E04W04976
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from neuser.jp@club-internet.fr)
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+	by relay-4v.club-internet.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 3E3D61698
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri,  1 Mar 2002 14:53:45 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <000e01c1c128$76fc1890$0d2ec2d4@kissmaniac>
+From: "neuser jean-philippe" <neuser.jp@club-internet.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:53:25 +0100
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+Subject: [Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
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+This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1C130.D72A0210
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+hello everybody
+i have some problems to make my landscape , specialy to export patch =
+zone
+
+
+MY CONFIGURATION
+Windows XP  Proc AMD XP 1600+  and 256 Mo RAM and ATI Radeon 7200
+Visual Studio 6 + SP5
+3DSMAX release 3 + character studio 2.2   in c:\3DSMAX
+
+
+Ok i have compiled snowball demo , plugins max , ligo and tile edit.
+Snowball demo and tile_edit works.=20
+
+
+Some files have been installed in c:\3DSMAX_1\plugins by visual studio =
+project=20
+files are :=20
+nelconvertpatch.dlm
+nelexport.dlu
+nelligo.dlx
+nelpaintdlm
+neltileutility.dlu
+i have transfered them into c:\3DSMAX\plugins
+
+
+
+i have copied some scripts too
+
+nel_ligo_export.ms and nel_ligoscape.ms into c:\3DSMAX\scripts\utilities
+and=20
+nel_flare.ms , nel_light.ms, nel_material.ms , =
+nel_material.ms.v1,nel_material.ms.v2,
+nel_material.ms.v3, nel_material.ms.v5, nel_multi_set.ms, nel_ps.ms, =
+nel_swt.ms, nel_wave_maker.ms=20
+into c:\3DSMAX\scripts\startup
+and
+nel_ligoscape.mcr into c:\3DSMAX\scripts\macroScripts
+
+
+
+i have copied nel_drv_opengl.dll object_viewer.DLL and object_viewer.cfg =
+into c:\3DSMAX\plugins and c:\3DSMAX
+
+
+ok now i run 3DSMAX=20
+i make a quad patch=20
+i enter 160 in lenght and 160 in width
+
+now i go into modify menu , i select More button and i can i see a nel =
+convert tool in list and i select it.
+
+=20
+ok now you say i have to lauch nel tile utility plugin but i m not able =
+able to find anywhere
+i only have a tile_edit.exe , so i launch it.
+i make a a land , add one tile and add 1 texture ( 128 * 128 in 24 bit =
+and TGA uncompressed format )=20
+i save all in c:\temp , set absolute patch and copie image1 in c:\temp
+
+
+ok now i select More button again, i can see a nel painter tool in list =
+and i select it=20
+i have a new option in Geometry menu. So i select perspective view  and =
+i select paint.
+i see my quad patch in a new windows , with the user_guit.txt , i able =
+to color a little but not to color with my texture ( normal )=20
+
+Ok i do the link between tile_edit and nel_painter ?=20
+
+
+now i exit the painter=20
+and i run nel_ligoscape script , i understand nothing !! when i select =
+export , nothing export .
+There is an other script call nel_ligo_export but if i run it 3DSMAX =
+crach at each time.
+
+
+
+ok i need help here !!=20
+
+
+
+
+thanks all=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1C130.D72A0210
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>hello everybody</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have some problems to make my =
+landscape ,=20
+specialy to export patch zone</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MY CONFIGURATION</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Windows XP&nbsp; </FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>Proc&nbsp;AMD XP 1600+&nbsp; and 256 Mo RAM and ATI Radeon=20
+7200</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Visual Studio 6 + SP5</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3DSMAX release 3 + character studio =
+2.2&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+in c:\3DSMAX</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok i have compiled snowball demo , =
+plugins max ,=20
+ligo and tile edit.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Snowball demo&nbsp;and tile_edit works. =
+
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some files have been installed&nbsp;in=20
+c:\3DSMAX_1\plugins by visual studio project </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>files are : </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nelconvertpatch.dlm</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nelexport.dlu</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nelligo.dlx</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nelpaintdlm</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>neltileutility.dlu</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have transfered them into=20
+c:\3DSMAX\plugins</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have copied some scripts =
+too</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_ligo_export.ms and nel_ligoscape.ms =
+into=20
+c:\3DSMAX\scripts\utilities</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_flare.ms , nel_light.ms, =
+nel_material.ms ,=20
+nel_material.ms.v1,nel_material.ms.v2,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_material.ms.v3, nel_material.ms.v5, =
+
+nel_multi_set.ms, nel_ps.ms, nel_swt.ms, nel_wave_maker.ms </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>into =
+c:\3DSMAX\scripts\startup</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>nel_ligoscape.mcr into=20
+c:\3DSMAX\scripts\macroScripts</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have copied nel_drv_opengl.dll =
+object_viewer.DLL=20
+and object_viewer.cfg into c:\3DSMAX\plugins and c:\3DSMAX</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ok now i run 3DSMAX </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i make a quad patch </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i enter 160 in lenght and 160 in =
+width</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>now i go into modify menu , i select =
+More button=20
+and i can i see a nel convert tool in list and&nbsp;i select =
+it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ok now you say i have to lauch nel tile =
+utility=20
+plugin but i m not able able to find anywhere</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>i only have a tile_edit.exe , so i launch it.</DIV>
+<DIV>i make a a land , add one tile and add 1 texture ( 128 * 128 in 24 =
+bit and=20
+TGA uncompressed format ) </DIV>
+<DIV>i save all in c:\temp , set absolute patch and copie image1 in=20
+c:\temp</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>ok now i select More button again, i can see a nel painter tool in =
+list and=20
+i select it </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i have a new&nbsp;option in Geometry =
+menu. So i=20
+select perspective view&nbsp;&nbsp;and i select paint.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i see my quad patch in a new windows , =
+with the=20
+user_guit.txt , i able to color a little but not to color with my =
+texture (=20
+normal ) </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok i do the link between tile_edit and =
+nel_painter=20
+? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>now i exit the painter </DIV>
+<DIV>and i run nel_ligoscape script , i understand nothing !! when i =
+select=20
+export , nothing export .</DIV>
+<DIV>There is an other script call nel_ligo_export but if i run it =
+3DSMAX crach=20
+at&nbsp;each time.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>ok i need help here !! </DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks all </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1C130.D72A0210--
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Fri Mar  1 15:22:15 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21EMEW06145
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:22:14 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:15:33 Z
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:43:33 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <194337713366.20020301144333@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+In-reply-To: <000e01c1c128$76fc1890$0d2ec2d4@kissmaniac>
+References: <000e01c1c128$76fc1890$0d2ec2d4@kissmaniac>
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Neuser,
+
+njp> ok now you say i have to lauch nel tile utility plugin but i m not able able to find anywhere
+njp> i only have a tile_edit.exe , so i launch it.
+njp> i make a a land , add one tile and add 1 texture ( 128 * 128 in 24 bit and TGA uncompressed format ) 
+njp> i save all in c:\temp , set absolute patch and copie image1 in c:\temp
+
+njp> Ok i do the link between tile_edit and nel_painter ?
+
+The NeL Tile Bank plugin is in the Utilities section
+of the 3D max menus (where the little hammer is).  You
+find NeL Tile Bank under NeL Tools if you go into "Configure
+Button Sets".  You click on the NeL Tile Bank and then
+you click on "Click to choose a bank..." in the
+parameters rollout, then you select the Bank you
+just created with tile_edit.exe.  Then you can paint
+using your textures.
+
+njp> ok i need help here !!
+
+I'm not familiar with LigoScape but to export the
+painted zone file you go into the NeL Export in
+the Utilities menu's and select Export model
+to save you Patch/Zone.  Then you have to weld,
+light and create PACS collistion info for your
+zones before you can use them in a client application.
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Fri Mar  1 16:27:54 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21FRsW09276
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:27:54 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from me@lars.in-berlin.de)
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+	(authenticated bits=0)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:25:20 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: lists@lars.in-berlin.de
+Date: 01 Mar 2002 16:25:20 +0100
+Message-ID: <87sn7kcntr.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 34
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Subject: [Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi all!
+
+I'm currently trying to compile nel again using the source from Feb. 28th
+at www.nevrax.org/download/.  After doing a s/)/}/ at
+src/misc/p_thread.cpp:54, the source compiles fine until it comes to
+src/3d/ps_ribbon.cpp.  There it fails with the following error:
+
+-----8<-----
+make[3]: Entering directory `/usr/local/src/nel/src/3d'
+source='ps_ribbon.cpp' object='ps_ribbon.lo' libtool=yes \
+depfile='.deps/ps_ribbon.Plo' tmpdepfile='.deps/ps_ribbon.TPlo' \
+depmode=gcc /bin/sh ../../depcomp \
+/bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include    -I../../src -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -DNL_RELEASE  -ftemplate-depth-24 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/include/stlport/ -c -o ps_ribbon.lo `test -f ps_ribbon.cpp || echo './'`ps_ribbon.cpp
+rm -f .libs/ps_ribbon.lo
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../src -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -ftemplate-depth-24 -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/include/stlport/ -c ps_ribbon.cpp -Wp,-MD,.deps/ps_ribbon.TPlo    -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/ps_ribbon.lo
+ps_ribbon.cpp: In method `void NL3D::CPSRibbon::serial(NLMISC::IStream &)':
+ps_ribbon.cpp:165: syntax error before `*'
+ps_ribbon.cpp:168: `CDummy2DAngle' undeclared (first use this function)
+ps_ribbon.cpp:168: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
+ps_ribbon.cpp:168: for each function it appears in.)
+ps_ribbon.cpp:168: parse error before `;'
+[...more errors snipped...]
+----->8-----
+
+Can anyone here tell me what the problem is?  I'm myself pretty clueless
+when it comes to C++ or object-oriented programming.
+
+Thanks,
+Lars
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Mar  1 16:51:39 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21FpcW10367
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:51:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <006f01c1c138$13c4f9d0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <87sn7kcntr.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:45:13 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+You perhaps should get the cvs tree instead of the tarball version :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Fri Mar  1 16:55:42 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <007501c1c138$a797d740$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:49:21 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Subject: [Nel] cpp to html in php :)
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+
+Hi,
+
+Do you know where I can find a little php function that take a string (cpp
+code) in param and that echoed the string with html tag to format the param
+(with color hightlight etc...) like they do in flipcode site for example:
+http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=Tip-UnusedParameters&foru
+m=totd&id=-1
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From yanbab@yanbab.org Fri Mar  1 17:27:43 2002
+Received: from smtp.noos.fr (aragon.noos.net [212.198.2.75])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21GRhW12235
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:27:43 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from yanbab@yanbab.org)
+Received: (qmail 11470329 invoked by uid 0); 1 Mar 2002 16:21:20 -0000
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+          by 212.198.2.75 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; 1 Mar 2002 16:21:20 -0000
+Subject: Re: [Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+From: Yan Babilliot <yanbab@yanbab.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <007501c1c138$a797d740$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+References: <007501c1c138$a797d740$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 
+Date: 01 Mar 2002 17:22:49 +0100
+Message-Id: <1014999769.11058.9.camel@debian>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g21GRhW12235
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+le ven 01-03-2002 à 16:49, Vianney Lecroart a écrit :
+
+> Do you know where I can find a little php function that take a string (cpp
+> code) in param and that echoed the string with html tag to format the param
+> (with color hightlight etc...) like they do in flipcode site for example:
+> http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=Tip-UnusedParameters&foru
+> m=totd&id=-1
+
+Check http://www.beautifier.org/ , a flexible syntax hilighting system
+written in PHP.
+You can also use show_source(), highlight_string(), highlight_file(),
+but they only support PHP syntax.
+
+Yan.
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Fri Mar  1 17:49:51 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21GnoW13385
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:49:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16gq7k-0001sy-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:43:12 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15487.44960.243778.59129@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:43:12 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+In-Reply-To: neuser jean-philippe's message of 1 March 2002 14:53:25 +0100
+References: <000e01c1c128$76fc1890$0d2ec2d4@kissmaniac>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+neuser jean-philippe writes:
+ > hello everybody
+ > i have some problems to make my landscape , specialy to export patch zone
+ > 
+ > 
+ > MY CONFIGURATION
+ > Windows XP  Proc AMD XP 1600+  and 256 Mo RAM and ATI Radeon 7200
+ > Visual Studio 6 + SP5
+ > 3DSMAX release 3 + character studio 2.2   in c:\3DSMAX
+ > 
+
+	Woudl you be so kind as to send the plugin binaries you have
+to "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> so that he can upload them
+in the newly created binary section of nevrax.org ? It will be useful
+to other people trying to produce data for nel. My intuition is that
+people able to produce nice graphics are not likely to be very amused
+to compile the plugin by themselves ;-)
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From v.caron@zerodeux.net Fri Mar  1 17:53:56 2002
+Received: from zerodeux.net (zerodeux.net [62.212.104.175])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21GrtW13578
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:53:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from v.caron@zerodeux.net)
+Received: from localhost.localdomain (zerodeux.home [192.168.1.3])
+	by zerodeux.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE38B6F9
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri,  1 Mar 2002 17:47:41 +0100 (CET)
+Subject: Re: [Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+From: Vincent Caron <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+In-Reply-To: <007501c1c138$a797d740$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+References: <007501c1c138$a797d740$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Date: 01 Mar 2002 17:47:37 +0100
+Message-Id: <1015001257.777.12.camel@zerodeux.home>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I use a little wrapper around 'enscript', which is a good multi-language
+and multi-media beautifier :
+
+function snippet($file, $lang)
+{
+  $output = `enscript -q -E$lang -Whtml --color -o - $file`;
+  $start = strpos ($output, '<PRE>');
+  $end = strpos ($output, '</PRE>') + strlen('</PRE>');
+  return substr ($output, $start, $end-$start);
+}
+
+You just invoke 'echo snippet("/path/to/test.cpp", "cpp")'. It can be
+modified to support 'inline code' (ie. passed from a string in the PHP
+code) though ...
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Sat Mar  2 00:22:08 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g21NM7W33908
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:22:07 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16gwFN-00027s-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:15:29 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:15:28 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Here is a small patch against todays CVS so that 
+nel & snowballs compile on the GNU/Linux operating system.
+
+	- Missing file in 3d/Makefile.am
+	- Embeded struct definition that makes gcc-2.95.4 choke
+	- s/)/}/ (previously reported on the list)
+	- Viewport fix previously sent but apparently not yet applied
+	- Spurious inlines that prevent --with-debug compilations
+	  also reported in a previous patch but apparently forgotten
+
+	Have a nice weekend :-)
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.69
+diff -u -r1.69 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	19 Feb 2002 11:20:57 -0000	1.69
++++ nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	1 Mar 2002 23:13:56 -0000
+@@ -52,6 +52,7 @@
+                        cluster.h                                       \
+                        coarse_mesh_build.cpp                           \
+                        coarse_mesh_build.h                             \
++                       meshvp_wind_tree.cpp                            \
+                        coarse_mesh_manager.cpp                         \
+                        coarse_mesh_manager.h                           \
+                        computed_string.cpp                             \
+Index: nel/src/3d/ps_ribbon.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/ps_ribbon.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.4
+diff -u -r1.4 ps_ribbon.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/ps_ribbon.cpp	28 Feb 2002 12:59:51 -0000	1.4
++++ nel/src/3d/ps_ribbon.cpp	1 Mar 2002 23:13:56 -0000
+@@ -30,6 +30,7 @@
+ #include "3d/particle_system.h"
+ #include "3d/driver.h"
+ #include "3d/ps_util.h"
++#include "3d/ps_located.h"
+ #include "3d/texture_mem.h"
+ #include "nel/misc/matrix.h"
+ 
+@@ -38,6 +39,11 @@
+ 
+ static NLMISC::CRGBA GradientB2W[] = {NLMISC::CRGBA(0, 0, 0, 0), NLMISC::CRGBA(255, 255, 255, 255) };
+ 
++struct CDummy2DAngle : CPSRotated2DParticle
++{
++  CPSLocated *getAngle2DOwner(void) { return NULL; }
++};
++
+ /// private use : this create a gradient texture that goew from black to white
+ static ITexture *CreateGradientTexture()
+ {
+@@ -160,11 +166,6 @@
+ 
+ 		// we dont use the 2d angle anymore...serial a dummy one
+ 		{
+-			struct CDummy2DAngle : CPSRotated2DParticle
+-			{
+-				CPSLocated *getAngle2DOwner(void) { return NULL; }
+-			};
+-
+ 			 CDummy2DAngle _Dummy2DAngle;
+ 			_Dummy2DAngle.serialAngle2DScheme(f); 
+ 		}
+Index: nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.5
+diff -u -r1.5 zone_manager.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp	28 Feb 2002 12:59:52 -0000	1.5
++++ nel/src/3d/zone_manager.cpp	1 Mar 2002 23:13:57 -0000
+@@ -235,6 +235,7 @@
+ 	}
+ 	else
+ 	{
++		nldebug("file not found: %s", zonePath.c_str ());
+ 		_Lz->FileNotFound = true;
+ 		delete _Zm->Zone;
+ 	}
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.136
+diff -u -r1.136 driver_opengl.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp	15 Feb 2002 17:43:03 -0000	1.136
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp	1 Mar 2002 23:14:01 -0000
+@@ -1213,13 +1213,23 @@
+ 
+ void CDriverGL::setupViewport (const class CViewport& viewport)
+ {
+-#ifdef NL_OS_WINDOWS
++#if NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 	if (_hWnd)
+ 	{
+ 		// Get window rect
+ 		RECT rect;
+ 		GetClientRect (_hWnd, &rect);
+-
++		// Setup gl viewport
++		int clientWidth=rect.right-rect.left;
++		int clientHeight=rect.bottom-rect.top;
++#else // NL_OS_WINDOWS
++		XWindowAttributes win_attributes;
++		if (!XGetWindowAttributes(dpy, win, &win_attributes))
++		  throw EBadDisplay("Can't get window attributes.");
++		// Setup gl viewport
++		int clientWidth=win_attributes.width;
++		int clientHeight=win_attributes.height;
++#endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 		// Get viewport
+ 		float x;
+ 		float y;
+@@ -1227,9 +1237,6 @@
+ 		float height;
+ 		viewport.getValues (x, y, width, height);
+ 
+-		// Setup gl viewport
+-		int clientWidth=rect.right-rect.left;
+-		int clientHeight=rect.bottom-rect.top;
+ 		int ix=(int)((float)clientWidth*x);
+ 		clamp (ix, 0, clientWidth);
+ 		int iy=(int)((float)clientHeight*y);
+@@ -1239,6 +1246,7 @@
+ 		int iheight=(int)((float)clientHeight*height);
+ 		clamp (iheight, 0, clientHeight-iy);
+ 		glViewport (ix, iy, iwidth, iheight);
++#if NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ 	}
+ #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+ }
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.57
+diff -u -r1.57 driver_opengl_material.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp	15 Feb 2002 17:43:41 -0000	1.57
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_material.cpp	1 Mar 2002 23:14:01 -0000
+@@ -104,7 +104,7 @@
+ 
+ 
+ // --------------------------------------------------
+-inline void CDriverGL::setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat)
++void CDriverGL::setTextureEnvFunction(uint stage, CMaterial& mat)
+ {
+ 	ITexture	*text= mat.getTexture(stage);
+ 	if(text)
+@@ -138,7 +138,7 @@
+ 
+ 
+ //--------------------------------
+-inline void CDriverGL::setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat)
++void CDriverGL::setupUserTextureMatrix(uint numStages, CMaterial& mat)
+ { 
+ 	if (
+ 		(_UserTexMatEnabled != 0 && (mat.getFlags() & IDRV_MAT_USER_TEX_MAT_ALL) == 0)		
+Index: nel/src/misc/p_thread.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/misc/p_thread.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.8
+diff -u -r1.8 p_thread.cpp
+--- nel/src/misc/p_thread.cpp	27 Feb 2002 15:38:48 -0000	1.8
++++ nel/src/misc/p_thread.cpp	1 Mar 2002 23:14:05 -0000
+@@ -51,7 +51,7 @@
+ {
+ 	/// \todo: implement this functionnality for posix thread
+ 	return NULL;
+-)
++}
+  
+ 
+ /*
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From delirec@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net Mon Mar  4 04:06:35 2002
+Received: from NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net ([66.78.34.31])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2436TW08837
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 04:06:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from delirec@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net)
+Received: from delirec by NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net with local (Exim 3.34 #1)
+	id 16higg-00073P-00
+	for nel@nevrax.org; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:58:54 -0500
+From: "Dennis McGregor" <dns@delire.cz>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.25
+X-IPAddress: 144.134.131.228
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Message-Id: <E16higg-00073P-00@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net>
+Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:58:54 -0500
+X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net
+Subject: [Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: dns@delire.cz
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+I'm managing to compile the the Nel engine (after a full upgrade to
+woody the problems with pthread.h disappeared), but only if disable 3d
+during the compile process. Otherwise I get an error about a file that
+doesn't exist either in the tar that I'm using or on the nevrax.org cvsweb:
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../src
+-I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -ftemplate-depth-24
+-Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include
+-I/usr/local/STLport-4.0/stlport/ -Wp,-MD,.deps/water_height_map.pp -c
+water_height_map.cpp -o water_height_map.o >/dev/null 2>&1
+mv -f .libs/water_height_map.lo water_height_map.lo
+make[3]: *** No rule to make target `water_imp.cpp', needed by
+`water_imp.lo'.  Stop.
+
+Dennis.
+
+
+
+From vizerie@nevrax.com Mon Mar  4 10:15:08 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g249F8W18003
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:15:08 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nicolasv (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2498nn16876
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:08:49 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <000601c1c35c$32804840$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+From: "Nicolas Vizerie" <vizerie@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <E16higg-00073P-00@NJC15.kumudu.nirmani.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:08:49 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+
+Hi,
+Actually, this file shouldn't appear in your makefile. You should consider
+updating your makefile for the 3d lib from the CVS.
+
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Dennis McGregor" <dns@delire.cz>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:58 AM
+Subject: [Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+
+
+>
+> I'm managing to compile the the Nel engine (after a full upgrade to
+> woody the problems with pthread.h disappeared), but only if disable 3d
+> during the compile process. Otherwise I get an error about a file that
+> doesn't exist either in the tar that I'm using or on the nevrax.org
+cvsweb:
+>
+> c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I../../src
+> -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -DNL_RELEASE -ftemplate-depth-24
+> -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include
+> -I/usr/local/STLport-4.0/stlport/ -Wp,-MD,.deps/water_height_map.pp -c
+> water_height_map.cpp -o water_height_map.o >/dev/null 2>&1
+> mv -f .libs/water_height_map.lo water_height_map.lo
+> make[3]: *** No rule to make target `water_imp.cpp', needed by
+> `water_imp.lo'.  Stop.
+>
+> Dennis.
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Mar  4 10:37:12 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g249bBW18584
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+Message-ID: <002601c1c35f$47045420$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+
+Hi Loic,
+
+The patch is applied right now. Tanks a lot.
+A little things, for the macro NL_OS_WINDOWS and NL_OS_UNIX, in our case,
+it's better to use #ifdef instead of  #if because on windows we only define
+the macro but not set it to 1 (types_nl.h)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Mar  4 15:04:02 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g24E42W25854
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:04:02 +0100 (CET)
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+Message-ID: <15491.32063.535134.321239@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:57:19 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+In-Reply-To: Vianney Lecroart's message of 4 March 2002 10:30:52 +0100
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<002601c1c35f$47045420$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
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+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ > Hi Loic,
+ > 
+ > The patch is applied right now. Tanks a lot.
+ > A little things, for the macro NL_OS_WINDOWS and NL_OS_UNIX, in our case,
+ > it's better to use #ifdef instead of  #if because on windows we only define
+ > the macro but not set it to 1 (types_nl.h)
+
+	Oops. Sorry about that and thanks for the explanation.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Mar  4 16:39:35 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g24FdYW28330
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:39:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:33:13 Z
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:01:09 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <39601569170.20020304160109@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
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+Subject: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+I get the following errors when I try compiling
+Object Viewer in Release build mode on Windows,
+It works fine in ReleaseDebug mode:
+
+g:\CODE\NEL\SRC\3d/ps_attrib_maker_helper.h(327) : fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm to specify a higher limit
+        g:\CODE\NEL\SRC\3d/ps_attrib_maker_helper.h(939) : see reference to function template instantiation 'void __thiscall NL3D::CPSAttribMakerT<class NLMISC::CRGBA,class NL3D::CPSValueBlendFunc<class NLMISC::CRGBA> >::make4ByIterator(struct NL3D:
+:CFDot3AddIterator<struct NL3D::CAdvance1616Iterator<class NLMISC::CVector const *,class NLMISC::CVector> >,void *,unsigned __int32,unsigned __int32,bool) const' being compiled
+<...cut...>
+g:\CODE\NEL\SRC\3d/ps_attrib_maker_helper.h(467) : fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm to specify a higher limit
+        g:\CODE\NEL\SRC\3d/ps_attrib_maker_helper.h(1032) : see reference to function template instantiation 'void __thiscall NL3D::CPSAttribMakerT<struct NL3D::CPlaneBasis,class NL3D::CPSValueBlendFunc<struct NL3D::CPlaneBasis> >::makeNByIterator(s
+truct NL3D::CDecalIterator,void *,unsigned __int32,unsigned __int32,unsigned __int32,bool) const' being compiled
+
+Also when I try re-compiling anything I get
+those errors, I always need to use Rebuild
+All:
+
+Compiling...
+anim_detail_trav.cpp
+G:\code\nel\src\3d\anim_detail_trav.cpp(26) : fatal error C1852: '../obj/Release/3d.pch' is not a valid precompiled header file
+clip_trav.cpp
+<...>
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Mar  4 17:30:14 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g24GUEW29685
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:30:14 +0100 (CET)
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+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008901c1c399$0a5c0560$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <39601569170.20020304160109@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:24:21 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Robert,
+
+> g:\CODE\NEL\SRC\3d/ps_attrib_maker_helper.h(327) : fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm to
+specify a higher limit
+
+Ok, i have passed the /Zm option to 400 in release for object viewer.
+Now this option is 400% in release and releasedebug, 500% in debugfast.
+
+> G:\code\nel\src\3d\anim_detail_trav.cpp(26) : fatal error C1852: '../obj/Release/3d.pch' is not a valid precompiled header file
+> clip_trav.cpp
+
+Nel3d now uses precompilated headers to speedup compilation time. It looks like MSVisual have some problems
+to handle this correctly. Try to delete all temporary files by hand (../obj/*.*) and rebuild all. Then it should be ok.
+
+Hld.
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Mar  4 19:52:25 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g24IqPW33541
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <00dc01c1c3ac$d724a9e0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:46:05 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs screenshots
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+From nevrax.org news:
+
+6 new screenshots of Snowballs2 are available on the screenshot section
+(http://www.nevrax.org/screenshots). Sorry, I didn't create the tiny version
+of pics.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Mar  4 21:28:04 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g24KS3W36250
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:28:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:21:44 Z
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:49:38 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <68618878490.20020304204938@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+In-reply-To: <008901c1c399$0a5c0560$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+References: <39601569170.20020304160109@in-orbit.net>
+ <008901c1c399$0a5c0560$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Cyril,
+
+Monday, March 04, 2002, 8:24:21 AM, you wrote:
+CHC> Ok, i have passed the /Zm option to 400 in release for object viewer.
+CHC> Now this option is 400% in release and releasedebug, 500% in debugfast.
+
+I had tried this, but with no luck, I put /Zm500 for Release in
+Project->Settings->General->Project Options.  I don't have to
+put any /Zm to have the ReleaseDebug compile.  This is super
+low priority problem because everything works fine in ReleaseDebug
+mode...
+
+>> G:\code\nel\src\3d\anim_detail_trav.cpp(26) : fatal error C1852: '../obj/Release/3d.pch' is not a valid precompiled header file
+>> clip_trav.cpp
+
+CHC> Nel3d now uses precompilated headers to speedup compilation time. It looks like MSVisual have some problems
+CHC> to handle this correctly. Try to delete all temporary files by hand (../obj/*.*) and rebuild all. Then it should be ok.
+
+I've got no problem rebuilding all, just when I make a
+small change in one of my client source files it
+gives me those errors and I need to recompile the
+3d libraries every time I want to compile the
+client.
+
+Those problems are probably some local config
+issues with my MSVisual, I'll see if I can fix
+it...
+
+Thanks,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Tue Mar  5 05:30:15 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g254UFW50277
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+Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:51:50 -0800
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+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <137647810051.20020305045150@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+In-reply-To: <008901c1c399$0a5c0560$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+References: <39601569170.20020304160109@in-orbit.net>
+ <008901c1c399$0a5c0560$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
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+
+Hi Cyril,
+
+Monday, March 04, 2002, 8:24:21 AM, you wrote:
+CHC> Ok, i have passed the /Zm option to 400 in release for object viewer.
+CHC> Now this option is 400% in release and releasedebug, 500% in debugfast.
+
+With your last CVS update where you added
+/Zm400 into the object_viewer.dsp file then
+everything compiles fine in Release mode...
+Maybe the reason it didn't work for me to
+add the /Zm400 option to the project was
+that I had to save and reload the project
+for it to take effect...
+
+>> G:\code\nel\src\3d\anim_detail_trav.cpp(26) : fatal error C1852: '../obj/Release/3d.pch' is not a valid precompiled header file
+>> clip_trav.cpp
+
+CHC> Nel3d now uses precompilated headers to speedup compilation time. It looks like MSVisual have some problems
+CHC> to handle this correctly. Try to delete all temporary files by hand (../obj/*.*) and rebuild all. Then it should be ok.
+
+Still no luck in getting rid of the C1852 error
+when re-compiling stuff. This is no problem for me
+I just disabled the precompiled headers for now
+in my local configuration.
+
+Thanks,
+Robert
+
+
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Sat Mar  2 13:05:46 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g22C5jW58829
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:05:45 +0100 (CET)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 13:03:13 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+From: Lars Weber <me@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Date: 02 Mar 2002 13:03:13 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Message-ID: <87henznpmm.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 28
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org> wrote:
+> 	Here is a small patch against todays CVS so that 
+> nel & snowballs compile on the GNU/Linux operating system.
+
+Thanks Loic for the patches, with them I was finally able to make
+snowballs compile!
+
+*Swwweeeeeeeet*!
+
+My hardware is a Duron 800 with 384 MB RAM and a Voodoo 4 graphics card,
+and the software a pretty clean Debian unstable system with XFree4.1 and
+no non-free drivers or anything.  I can see snow and everything... and the
+landscape really looks awesome!
+
+I really had to force myself into bed yesterday night... :-)
+
+The only problems are the low framerate, which jumps around somewhere
+between 3 and 5 fps, and an extremely sensitive mouse.  I will shortly
+take a look at the client.cfg to see if there are any settings that can
+help me make exploring the territory even more fun!
+
+Best wishes,
+Lars
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Mon Mar  4 17:20:52 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g24GKqW29409
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:20:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g24GEYn22206
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:14:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005e01c1c397$bb8ca800$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <39601569170.20020304160109@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:14:59 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Robert,
+
+> g:\CODE\NEL\SRC\3d/ps_attrib_maker_helper.h(327) : fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm to
+specify a higher limit
+
+Ok, i have passed the /Zm option to 400 in release for object viewer.
+Now this option is 400% in release and releasedebug, 500% in debugfast.
+
+> G:\code\nel\src\3d\anim_detail_trav.cpp(26) : fatal error C1852: '../obj/Release/3d.pch' is not a valid precompiled header file
+> clip_trav.cpp
+
+Nel3d now uses precompilated headers to speedup compilation time. It looks like MSVisual have some problems
+to handle this correctly. Try to delete all temporary files by hand (../obj/*.*) and rebuild all. Then it should be ok.
+
+Hld.
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Tue Mar  5 10:53:31 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g259rVW54363
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:53:31 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:47:12 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005101c1c42a$b9cfd300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org> <87henznpmm.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:47:12 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+> The only problems are the low framerate, which jumps around somewhere
+> between 3 and 5 fps, and an extremely sensitive mouse.  I will shortly
+> take a look at the client.cfg to see if there are any settings that can
+> help me make exploring the territory even more fun!
+
+mouse_listener.cpp line 121:
+  turnZ.rotateZ ((float) Pi*2.f*(_X-mouseEvent->X));
+
+You can change the factor (2.f) and set a lower value to have a lower mouse
+sensitive.
+
+The low framerate is normal I think, because of your Voodoo 4 (perhaps
+driver are not accelerated or badly accelerated). Loic have a very high
+framerate with his 3d card (nVidia) on GNU/Linux.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Tue Mar  5 11:03:03 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g25A33W54449
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:03:03 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16iBfv-0005K1-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:56:03 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15492.38450.551744.440370@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:56:02 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+In-Reply-To: Lars Weber's message of 2 March 2002 13:03:13 +0100
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<87henznpmm.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Lars Weber writes:
+ > Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org> wrote:
+ > > 	Here is a small patch against todays CVS so that 
+ > > nel & snowballs compile on the GNU/Linux operating system.
+ > 
+ > Thanks Loic for the patches, with them I was finally able to make
+ > snowballs compile!
+ > 
+ > *Swwweeeeeeeet*!
+ > 
+ > My hardware is a Duron 800 with 384 MB RAM and a Voodoo 4 graphics card,
+ > and the software a pretty clean Debian unstable system with XFree4.1 and
+ > no non-free drivers or anything.  I can see snow and everything... and the
+ > landscape really looks awesome!
+ > 
+ > I really had to force myself into bed yesterday night... :-)
+ > 
+ > The only problems are the low framerate, which jumps around somewhere
+ > between 3 and 5 fps, and an extremely sensitive mouse.  I will shortly
+ > take a look at the client.cfg to see if there are any settings that can
+ > help me make exploring the territory even more fun!
+
+	You could try /tilenear 0.1 while in game. It is reported to 
+accelerate significatly on a G400. It is of no help if you have an
+opengl driver that accelerates the calculations that are saved by reducing
+this value.
+
+	I'd be interested to know if you're using a Free Software driver
+for the Voodoo 4. Since you have a rather poor framerate, I guess it's the
+case. Could you provide the output of glxinfo ? 
+
+	I found noticeable enhancement in xfree-4.2, you may want to switch
+to it. Or wait that it pops in unstable.
+
+	I'm using a Debian unstable, xfree-4.2, ati radeon 7500 on a 
+Dual PIII 450 with 512Mb RAM, AGP x1. That gives me 8fps on average.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Mar  6 11:06:06 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (babel.zehc.net [213.36.100.145])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g26A65W65890
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:06:06 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16iYCK-0000dE-00
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+MIME-Version: 1.0
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15493.59492.813819.205689@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:59:00 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+In-Reply-To: Vianney Lecroart's message of 5 March 2002 10:47:12 +0100
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<87henznpmm.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+	<005101c1c42a$b9cfd300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
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+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Vianney Lecroart writes:
+ > 
+ > The low framerate is normal I think, because of your Voodoo 4 (perhaps
+ > driver are not accelerated or badly accelerated). Loic have a very high
+ > framerate with his 3d card (nVidia) on GNU/Linux.
+ > 
+
+	That must be someone else. Unfortunately there is no Free
+Software driver for the nVidia cards and people valuing freedom have to
+chose another hardware.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Wed Mar  6 11:29:48 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g26ATkW66190
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:29:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g26ANOn40148
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+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <005601c1c4f8$f2ae0970$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org><87henznpmm.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de><005101c1c42a$b9cfd300$0901a8c0@vianneyl> <15493.59492.813819.205689@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:23:24 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
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+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> That must be someone else. Unfortunately there is no Free
+> Software driver for the nVidia cards and people valuing freedom have to
+> chose another hardware.
+
+Oups, right, it's a Vincent Caron that have a high framerate :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Wed Mar  6 14:25:04 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g26DP4W70723
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:22:46 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<87henznpmm.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+	<15492.38450.551744.440370@inspiron.dachary.org>
+From: Lars Weber <me@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Date: 06 Mar 2002 14:22:46 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <15492.38450.551744.440370@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Message-ID: <871yex96ft.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 85
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+
+Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org> wrote:
+> 	You could try /tilenear 0.1 while in game. It is reported to 
+> accelerate significatly on a G400. It is of no help if you have an
+> opengl driver that accelerates the calculations that are saved by reducing
+> this value.
+
+I've tried /tilenear, and it seems to have at least a little effect:
+something of up to 2 (though the framerate is a little bit too jumpy to
+say exactly).
+
+> 	I'd be interested to know if you're using a Free Software driver
+> for the Voodoo 4. Since you have a rather poor framerate, I guess it's the
+> case. Could you provide the output of glxinfo ? 
+
+Sure:
+
+| name of display: :0.0
+| display: :0  screen: 0
+| direct rendering: Yes
+| server glx vendor string: SGI
+| server glx version string: 1.2
+| server glx extensions:
+|     GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
+| client glx vendor string: SGI
+| client glx version string: 1.2
+| client glx extensions:
+|     GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
+| GLX extensions:
+|     GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context
+| OpenGL vendor string: VA Linux Systems, Inc.
+| OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Voodoo4 20010501 x86/MMX/3DNow!
+| OpenGL version string: 1.2 Mesa 3.4.2
+| OpenGL extensions:
+|     GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_EXT_abgr, 
+|     GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_histogram, 
+|     GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_EXT_paletted_texture, GL_EXT_polygon_offset, 
+|     GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_texture3D, 
+|     GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_EXT_texture_object, 
+|     GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_HP_occlusion_test, 
+|     GL_MESA_window_pos, GL_MESA_resize_buffers, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, 
+|     GL_PGI_misc_hints, GL_SGI_color_matrix, GL_SGI_color_table, 
+|     GL_SGIS_pixel_texture, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp, GL_SGIX_pixel_texture
+| glu version: 1.3
+| glu extensions:
+|     GLU_EXT_nurbs_tessellator, GLU_EXT_object_space_tess
+| 
+|    visual  x  bf lv rg d st colorbuffer ax dp st accumbuffer  ms  cav
+|  id dep cl sp sz l  ci b ro  r  g  b  a bf th cl  r  g  b  a ns b eat
+| ----------------------------------------------------------------------
+| 0x23 24 tc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x24 24 tc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+| 0x25 24 tc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x26 24 tc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+| 0x27 24 tc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x28 24 tc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+| 0x29 24 tc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x2a 24 tc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+| 0x2b 24 dc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x2c 24 dc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+| 0x2d 24 dc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x2e 24 dc  0 24  0 r  .  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+| 0x2f 24 dc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x30 24 dc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0  0  0 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+| 0x31 24 dc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8  0  0  0  0  0 0 None
+| 0x32 24 dc  0 24  0 r  y  .  8  8  8  8  0 24  8 16 16 16 16  0 0 Slow
+
+As you have rightly guessed it is all Free Software -- just like the rest
+of my system :-).  And the card worked almost out of the box.  IIRC I only
+had to install the xlibmesa3 package to get acceleration working.
+
+> 	I found noticeable enhancement in xfree-4.2, you may want to switch
+> to it. Or wait that it pops in unstable.
+
+According to Branden's X Strike Force page, XFree4.2 packages shouldn't be
+that far of into the future.  As I don't really feel the desire currently
+to start meddling with my X setup, I think I'll go with the latter option
+:-)
+
+Gruss,
+Lars
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From paulmsiegel@yahoo.com Wed Mar  6 22:07:33 2002
+Received: from smtp012.mail.yahoo.com (smtp012.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.32])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g26L7WW73854
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+  by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2002 20:56:39 -0000
+From: "Paul Siegel" <paulmsiegel@yahoo.com>
+To: "NeL List" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:59:50 -0500
+Message-ID: <PHEJJLNMBCJCMNMBBNIDMEJCCAAA.paulmsiegel@yahoo.com>
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+Subject: [Nel] STLPort update
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+It's been a while since I've played with NeL, and since I recently got a new
+computer, I redownloaded all the dependencies and built NeL and Snowballs
+from scratch.  Everything built fine, but when I tried to launch the app it
+crashed.  I found this in my log:
+
+02/03/06 11:21:21 WRN  756 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched: In
+Stream: data/shapes/snow.ps: The version in stream is newer than the class
+
+I tried scouring the mailing list archive, but found nothing on the problem.
+I next downloaded the distributed binaries on Nevrax.org's download page,
+and noticed that one of the files in the archive was stlport_vc6.4.5.dll.
+Well, I made an educated guess that NeL has moved from STLPort 4.0 to 4.5.
+I downloaded the more recent version of the library, rebuilt, and everything
+worked fine.
+
+Anyway, I just wanted to post this in case anyone else came across such a
+problem.  Ultimately, it would be nice if somewhere it was documented that
+NeL now requires STLPort 4.5.  I'm thinking code/nel/INSTALL.
+
+Paul
+
+

+_________________________________________________________

+Do You Yahoo!?

+Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

+

+
+From loic@dachary.org Sat Mar  9 12:19:20 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g29BJJW02816
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:19:19 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
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+Message-ID: <15497.60944.612368.88709@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:12:16 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] NeL Debian GNU/Linux unstable package
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I generated a Debian GNU/Linux package for NeL, you will find
+it at http://loic.dachary.org/nel/. If this is more convenient for
+Nevrax people, I can arrange for this directory to respond to rsync so
+that a mirror can be done on nevrax.org.
+
+	I had to fix a few things so that make dist generates a proper
+distribution. Here is a summary of what the patch does:
+
+	- fix a few spelling errors in INSTALL
+	- added bootstrap doc samples and tools to the distribution
+	- killed all CVS directories in the generated distribution
+	- reworked the acinclude.m4 stlport macro so that it detects a
+	  standard stlport installation, barks if --without-stlport is
+	  specified, allow --with-stlport-lib without a --with-stlport,
+	  uses AC_LANG macros
+	- add ${top_srcdir}/include to the include list so that building
+	  in a directory other than the source directory works (needed
+	  for make distcheck)
+	- added DIST_SUBDIRS so that make dist is aware of the complete
+	  list of subdirectories to include in the distribution even when
+	  @NEL_SUBDIRS@ is used
+	- fix numerous Makefile.am that were lacking headers (did not
+	  make it thru the distribution)
+	- recommend stlport-4.5 instead of stlport-4.0 
+
+	The patch is generated against todays CVS tree.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+Index: nel/INSTALL
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/INSTALL,v
+retrieving revision 1.21
+diff -u -r1.21 INSTALL
+--- nel/INSTALL	7 Feb 2002 16:52:12 -0000	1.21
++++ nel/INSTALL	9 Mar 2002 11:05:35 -0000
+@@ -2,15 +2,15 @@
+ Requirements
+ ============
+ 
+-   The NeL library need the following libraries :
++   The NeL library needs the following libraries :
+ 
+-      - STLPort 4.0    <URL:http://www.stlport.org/>            (Mandatory)
++      - STLPort 4.5    <URL:http://www.stlport.org/>            (Mandatory)
+       - LibXML 2.4.13  <URL:http://www.xmlsoft.org/>            (NeL Misc)
+       - FreeType 2     <URL:http://freetype.sourceforge.net/>   (NeL 3D)
+       - OpenAL         <URL:http://www.openal.org/>             (NeL Sound)
+       - Python 1.5     <URL:http://www.python.org/>             (NeL AI)
+ 
+-   STLPort need to be compiled. NeL is using the SGI iostreams and it require
++   STLPort needs to be compiled. NeL is using the SGI iostreams and it require
+    the STLPort compilation and a linking of NeL with the STLPort library.
+ 
+    On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following libraries and
+@@ -43,7 +43,7 @@
+    provided on your installation disk. 
+ 
+    The given sofware or library version numbers are the ones that we are
+-   using. We don't know if it working with other (older or more recent)
++   using. We don't know if NeL will work with other (older or more recent)
+    versions of these softwares or libraries. You are welcome to help us
+    to define more precisely these informations ;-)
+ 
+@@ -91,10 +91,10 @@
+            The STLPort include *must* be inserted before the microsoft one or
+            the compiler will take microsoft STL instead of STLPort STL.
+            (use the arrow button to put the STLPort include at the top)
+-           ex: D:/stlport-4.0/stlport
++           ex: D:/stlport-4.5/stlport
+ 
+          - Add the STLPort library directory to the "Library Files" category.
+-           ex: D:/stlport-4.0/lib
++           ex: D:/stlport-4.5/lib
+ 
+          - Add the FreeType include directory to the "Include Files" category.
+            ex: D:/freetype-2.0/include
+Index: nel/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.7
+diff -u -r1.7 Makefile.am
+--- nel/Makefile.am	7 Jan 2002 16:09:52 -0000	1.7
++++ nel/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:35 -0000
+@@ -14,14 +14,10 @@
+ 
+ bin_SCRIPTS          = nel-config
+ 
+-EXTRA_DIST           = nel.dsw
++EXTRA_DIST           = nel.dsw bootstrap doc samples tools
+ 
+ dist-hook:
+-	cp -p  $(srcdir)/bootstrap $(distdir)
+-	cp -pR $(srcdir)/doc       $(distdir)
+-	cp -pR $(srcdir)/samples   $(distdir)
+-	cp -pR $(srcdir)/tools     $(distdir)
+-
++	find $(distdir) -name CVS -print | xargs rm -fr
+ 
+ # End of Makefile.am
+ 
+Index: nel/acinclude.m4
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/acinclude.m4,v
+retrieving revision 1.8
+diff -u -r1.8 acinclude.m4
+--- nel/acinclude.m4	18 Feb 2002 12:58:38 -0000	1.8
++++ nel/acinclude.m4	9 Mar 2002 11:05:35 -0000
+@@ -374,11 +374,10 @@
+ if test "$with_stlport" = no
+ then
+     dnl The user explicitly disabled the use of the STLPorts
+-    AC_MSG_CHECKING(STLPort)
+-    have_stlport="disabled"
+-    AC_MSG_RESULT(disabled (*** EXPERIMENTAL ***))
++    AC_MSG_ERROR([STLPort is mandatory: do not specify --without-stlport])
+ else
+-    if test "$with_stlport"
++    stlport_includes="/usr/include/stlport"
++    if test "$with_stlport" -a "$with_stlport" != yes
+     then
+         stlport_includes="$with_stlport/stlport"
+         stlport_libraries="$with_stlport/lib"
+@@ -390,82 +389,73 @@
+     fi
+ fi
+ 
+-if test -z "$have_stlport" -a "$with_stlport_include"
++if test "$with_stlport_include"
+ then
+     stlport_includes="$with_stlport_include"
+ fi
+ 
+-if test -z "$have_stlport" -a "$with_stlport_lib"
++if test "$with_stlport_lib"
+ then
+     stlport_libraries="$with_stlport_lib"
+ fi
+ 
+-if test -z "$have_stlport"
+-then
+-    dnl Put STLPorts includes in CXXFLAGS
+-    if test "$stlport_includes"
+-    then
+-        CXXFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS -I$stlport_includes"
+-    fi
+-
+-    dnl Put STLPorts libraries in LIBS
+-    if test "$stlport_libraries"
+-    then
+-        LIBS="-L$stlport_libraries $LIBS -l$stlport_lib"
+-    fi
+-
+-    dnl Test the headers
+-    AC_MSG_CHECKING(for STLPort headers)
+-
+-    _CPPFLAGS="$CPPFLAGS"
++AC_LANG_SAVE
++AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS
+ 
+-    CPPFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS"
++dnl Put STLPorts includes in CXXFLAGS
++if test "$stlport_includes"
++then
++    CXXFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS -I$stlport_includes"
++fi
+ 
+-    AC_EGREP_CPP( yo_stlport,
+-    [#include <algorithm>
+-#ifdef __SGI_STL_PORT
+-   yo_stlport
+-#endif],
+-      have_stlport_headers="yes",
+-      have_stlport_headers="no" )
++dnl Put STLPorts libraries directory in LIBS
++if test "$stlport_libraries"
++then
++    LIBS="-L$stlport_libraries $LIBS"
++else
++    stlport_libraries='default'
++fi
+ 
+-    if test "$have_stlport_headers" = "yes"
+-    then
+-        AC_MSG_RESULT([$stlport_includes])
+-    else
+-        AC_MSG_RESULT(no)
+-    fi
++dnl Test the headers
+ 
+-    dnl Test the libraries
+-    AC_MSG_CHECKING(for STLPort libraries)
++AC_CHECK_HEADER(algorithm,
++    have_stlport_headers="yes",
++    have_stlport_headers="no" )
+ 
+-    CPPFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS $LIBS"
++AC_MSG_CHECKING(for STLPort headers)
+ 
+-    AC_TRY_LINK( , , have_stlport_libraries="yes", have_stlport_libraries="no")
++if test "$have_stlport_headers" = "yes"
++then
++    AC_MSG_RESULT([$stlport_includes])
++else
++    AC_MSG_RESULT(no)
++fi
+ 
+-    CPPFLAGS="$_CPPFLAGS"
++AC_CHECK_LIB($stlport_lib, main, have_stlport_libraries="yes", have_stlport_libraries="no")
+ 
+-    if test "$have_stlport_libraries" = "yes"
+-    then
+-        AC_MSG_RESULT([$stlport_libraries])
+-    else
+-        AC_MSG_RESULT(no)
+-    fi
++AC_MSG_CHECKING(for STLPort library)
+ 
+-    if test "$have_stlport_headers" = "yes" \
+-       && test "$have_stlport_libraries" = "yes"
+-    then
+-        have_stlport="yes"
+-    else
+-        have_stlport="no"
+-    fi
++if test "$have_stlport_libraries" = "yes"
++then
++    AC_MSG_RESULT([$stlport_libraries])
++else
++    AC_MSG_RESULT(no)
++fi
+ 
+-    if test "$have_stlport" = "no"
+-    then
+-        AC_MSG_ERROR([STLPort must be installed (http://www.stlport.org).])
+-    fi
++if test "$have_stlport_headers" = "yes" &&
++    test "$have_stlport_libraries" = "yes"
++then
++    have_stlport="yes"
++else
++    have_stlport="no"
++fi
+ 
++if test "$have_stlport" = "no"
++then
++    AC_MSG_ERROR([STLPort must be installed (http://www.stlport.org).])
+ fi
++
++AC_LANG_RESTORE
+ 
+ ])
+ 
+Index: nel/configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.59
+diff -u -r1.59 configure.in
+--- nel/configure.in	28 Jan 2002 15:22:19 -0000	1.59
++++ nel/configure.in	9 Mar 2002 11:05:36 -0000
+@@ -254,6 +254,10 @@
+ 
+ AM_PATH_XF86VIDMODE
+ 
++dnl Arrange for the include directory to be in the search path even when
++dnl build is done outside the source tree
++CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -I\${top_srcdir}/include"
++CXXFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS -I\${top_srcdir}/include"
+ 
+ dnl ====================================================================
+ dnl Checks for library functions.
+@@ -263,11 +267,6 @@
+ dnl ====================================================================
+ dnl Output files to generate.
+ dnl ====================================================================
+-
+-dnl What an ugly hack to try to get something cleanner ... i hope ...
+-AC_OUTPUT_COMMANDS(
+-    [cd include/nel && ln -sfv ../nelconfig.h .]
+-)
+ 
+ AC_OUTPUT( Makefile                          \
+            include/Makefile                  \
+Index: nel/include/nel/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/include/nel/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.2
+diff -u -r1.2 Makefile.am
+--- nel/include/nel/Makefile.am	7 Jan 2002 16:09:52 -0000	1.2
++++ nel/include/nel/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:37 -0000
+@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@
+ 
+ MAINTAINERCLEANFILES = Makefile.in
+ 
+-SUBDIRS              = @NEL_SUBDIRS@
++SUBDIRS              = 3d ai misc net pacs sound
+ 
+ includedir           = ${prefix}/include/nel
+ 
+Index: nel/src/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.6
+diff -u -r1.6 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/Makefile.am	13 Jun 2001 18:05:00 -0000	1.6
++++ nel/src/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:41 -0000
+@@ -4,6 +4,8 @@
+ 
+ MAINTAINERCLEANFILES = Makefile.in
+ 
++DIST_SUBDIRS	     = net 3d pacs sound ai misc
++
+ SUBDIRS              = @NEL_SUBDIRS@
+ 
+ EXTRA_DIST           = misc.dsp net.dsp 3d.dsp ai.dsp
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.70
+diff -u -r1.70 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	4 Mar 2002 10:07:10 -0000	1.70
++++ nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:41 -0000
+@@ -74,7 +74,6 @@
+                        event_mouse_listener.h                          \
+                        fast_floor.cpp                                  \
+                        fast_floor.h                                    \
+-                       files.txt                                       \
+                        flare_model.cpp                                 \
+                        flare_model.h                                   \
+                        flare_shape.cpp                                 \
+@@ -483,6 +482,8 @@
+                        zone_smoother.h                                 \
+                        zone_tgt_smoother.cpp                           \
+                        zone_tgt_smoother.h
++
++noinst_HEADERS	     = std3d.h mesh_vertex_program.h meshvp_wind_tree.h
+ 
+ AM_CXXFLAGS          = -I$(top_srcdir)/src @FREETYPE_CFLAGS@
+ 
+Index: nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.10
+diff -u -r1.10 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am	7 Jan 2002 16:09:52 -0000	1.10
++++ nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:41 -0000
+@@ -22,10 +22,13 @@
+                                unix_event_emitter.cpp            \
+                                unix_event_emitter.h
+ 
++noinst_HEADERS		     = stdopengl.h
++
+ AM_CXXFLAGS                  = -I$(top_srcdir)/src \
+                                @OPENGL_CFLAGS@ @XF86VIDMODE_CFLAGS@
+ 
+ libnel_drv_opengl_la_LIBADD  = @OPENGL_LIBS@ @XF86VIDMODE_LIBS@
++libnel_drv_opengl_la_LDFLAGS = -no-undefined
+ 
+ 
+ # End of Makefile.am
+Index: nel/src/misc/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/misc/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.40
+diff -u -r1.40 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/misc/Makefile.am	18 Feb 2002 12:57:05 -0000	1.40
++++ nel/src/misc/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:43 -0000
+@@ -68,6 +68,7 @@
+                         window_displayer.cpp               \
+ 			debug_displayer.cpp                
+ 
++noinst_HEADERS	      = stdmisc.h
+ 
+ AM_CXXFLAGS           = @XML_CFLAGS@
+ 
+Index: nel/src/net/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.15
+diff -u -r1.15 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/net/Makefile.am	15 Feb 2002 14:40:21 -0000	1.15
++++ nel/src/net/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:43 -0000
+@@ -36,6 +36,8 @@
+                        service_5.cpp                       \
+                        transport_class.cpp                 
+ 
++noinst_HEADERS	     = stdnet.h
++
+ AM_CXXFLAGS          = -I$(top_srcdir)/src
+ 
+ libnelnet_la_LIBADD  = -lc -lpthread
+Index: nel/src/pacs/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/pacs/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.4
+diff -u -r1.4 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/pacs/Makefile.am	9 Aug 2001 16:18:01 -0000	1.4
++++ nel/src/pacs/Makefile.am	9 Mar 2002 11:05:43 -0000
+@@ -54,6 +54,8 @@
+ 
+ AM_CXXFLAGS           = -I$(top_srcdir)/src
+ 
++noinst_HEADERS	      = stdpacs.h face_grid.h quad_grid.h
++
+ libnelpacs_la_LIBADD  = -lc
+ 
+ libnelpacs_la_LDFLAGS = -version-info @LIBTOOL_VERSION@
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Sat Mar  9 14:11:30 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g29DBUW03559
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:11:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16jgWS-0008EK-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:04:28 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15498.2140.538373.975527@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:04:28 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] AI
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	It looks like a file is missing from the CVS tree that prevents
+compilation of AI.
+
+nel/ai/script/interpret_message_setvalue.h
+
+	I'll disable AI in the debian package for now. I may be able to
+re-build this file by hand but I'd first like to be sure it is not available
+somewhere ;-)
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Sun Mar 10 11:51:40 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2AApdW11051
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:51:39 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16k0oe-0000cf-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:44:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15499.14612.281156.639536@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:44:36 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs binary
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	It would probably be a good idea to include libxml and freetype
+dynamic libraries in the current binary distribution of snowballs (the
+.zip file). That would significantly reduce the burden for people skilled
+to produce 3d data when they face the problem of recompiling plugins for
+their favorite and unfortunately proprietary 3d tool : 3DSMAX. 
+
+	I'd love to see new data generated for the snowballs
+demonstration program and making life easier for people with
+relatively low compiling/coding skills seems a good way to encourage
+this.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Sun Mar 10 12:35:50 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2ABZnW11329
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:35:49 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16k1VO-0000gB-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:28:46 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15499.17262.468979.786161@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:28:46 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Small typo
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	http://www.nevrax.org/docs/
+
+	s/licence/license/
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Sun Mar 10 13:31:25 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2ACVOW11657
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:31:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16k2NB-0000id-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:24:21 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15499.20597.111287.859739@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:24:21 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] snowballs frontend (sno_frontend) lossage
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	When running a server I expercience a continuous flow of the
+following errors:
+
+AST25054 buf_sock.cpp 190 loic.dachary.org/FS : "_RTSBIndex+len < _ReadyToSendBu
+ffer.size()" index=134989860 len=0 size=50
+AST25054 buf_sock.cpp 106 loic.dachary.org/FS : "pos+len <= v.size()" pos=134989
+860 len=0 size=50
+
+	from sno_frontend.
+
+	This occurs immediately after I press return in the snowballs client
+to accept to connect to shard 0. It looks like uninitialized variable or 
+something but I don't have the debug version handy to check this.
+
+	Oddly enough, that does not prevent me from being online
+although it will eventually crash when the disk is full ;-) I could
+redirect those messages to /dev/null but that somehow does not strike
+me as a good idea.
+
+	If there is no simple answer to this problem I'll investigate it as
+soon as I'm finished with the Debian GNU/Linux packages.
+
+	My configuration is Debian GNU/Linux unstable, stlport-4.5 and
+todays CVS (for snowballs2/nel/nelns). 
+
+	Cheers, 
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Sun Mar 10 17:44:54 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2AGirW13065
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:44:53 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16k6KU-0000s1-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:37:50 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15499.35806.173272.246400@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:37:50 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for snowballs data
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	You will find a Debian GNU/Linux package for the latest
+snowballs data at http://loic.dachary.org/snowballs-data/. I assumed
+that these data are released under the GNU GPL. It would be nice to
+have the source files that were used to produce these data. Maybe they
+are already available but I was not able to spot them ? 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Mon Mar 11 05:49:30 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2B4nOW17725
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:49:30 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 04:42:47 Z
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:10:30 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <1281167331213.20020311051030@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g2B4nOW17725
+Subject: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+This is actually the third time I try sending this
+post to the NeL mailing-list, I tried two times
+Friday, hope it get's trough now...  I got no errors
+from the mailinglist system back either... But to the
+point:
+
+Can anybody give me some tips on portal creation:
+
+Do I create special geometry in 3dsmax?
+Do I use the link system in 3dsmax to define the relationships?
+
+Thanks,
+Robert Bjarnason
+
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Mar 11 22:06:40 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2BL6eW23341
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:06:40 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16kWtM-0000R1-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:59:36 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15501.6840.528951.658522@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:59:36 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I finally have a set of Debian GNU/Linux (unstable) 
+packages working. They are all available at
+
+	http://loic.dachary.org/debian/
+
+	I generated the necessary package information so that
+adding 
+
+deb http://loic.dachary.org/debian ./
+deb-src http://loic.dachary.org/debian ./
+
+to /etc/apt/source.list is possible. 
+
+	Cheers,
+
+
+--- Here is the README attached to the URL above
+
+Repository of Debian GNU/Linux unstable packages for software
+distributed by http://www.nevrax.org/
+
+nel - game library (3d, ai, net, sound)
+nelns - game server base services
+snowballs - online wandering gnus throwing snowballs
+snowballs-data - graphics for snowballs
+
+In order to use this repository add the following to your 
+/etc/apt/source.list
+
+deb http://loic.dachary.org/debian ./
+deb-src http://loic.dachary.org/debian ./
+
+Then run
+
+apt-get update
+
+To play snowballs 
+
+apt-get install snowballs
+
+To run a snowball server
+
+apt-get install snowballs-server
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Mar 11 01:22:03 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2B0M2W15675
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:22:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16kDSs-0001By-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:14:58 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15499.63234.256503.565548@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:14:58 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for nelns
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	You will find a Debian GNU/Linux package for nelns
+at http://loic.dachary.org/nelns/. I think the snowball packages
+will wait tomorrow morning. I'm toasted ;-)
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Mar 11 01:33:47 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2B0XkW15758
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:33:46 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16kDeE-0001CQ-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:26:42 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15499.63937.674173.496436@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:26:41 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] another snowballs server
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+	Hi,
+
+	I'll be running a snowballs server on loic.dachary.org tonight
+(GMT-1).  I'm logged in and I'd be gratefull if people have the
+opportunity to come and shoot snowballs at me ;-)
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From akhoun@dess-gla.infop6.jussieu.fr Wed Mar  6 11:25:09 2002
+Received: from isis.lip6.fr (IDENT:root@isis.lip6.fr [132.227.60.2])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g26AP9W66117
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:25:09 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from akhoun@dess-gla.infop6.jussieu.fr)
+Received: from gla.dess-gla.infop6.jussieu.fr (gla.ecoledoc.lip6.fr [132.227.69.128])
+          by isis.lip6.fr (8.12.0.Beta19/jtpda-5.3.2+victor) with ESMTP id g26AImkB000626
+          for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:18:49 +0100
+X-pt: isis.lip6.fr
+Received: from gla.ecoledoc.lip6.fr (STEIN [132.227.69.115])
+	by gla.dess-gla.infop6.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A481815A
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed,  6 Mar 2002 11:18:47 +0100 (CET)
+Message-ID: <3C85ED07.2070708@gla.ecoledoc.lip6.fr>
+Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:18:47 +0100
+From: Akhoun =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?= <akhoun@dess-gla.infop6.jussieu.fr>
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1
+X-Accept-Language: fr-fr
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+Subject: [Nel] A* - Behaviour - Scripting Language
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi.
+ I am student in Dess, and within the framework of this training, I must 
+study the NeL platform.
+ To begin, I have been asked to implant the A* algorithm to study the 
+feasibility besides of the project (creation of a framework of evolved 
+behavior consisted of "basic" behavior).
+So  I have several questions :
+
+For A*: is this algo already implanted? If not, will it be? In what 
+place of the code would it be the most sensible to place it ?
+For the behavior: is there a scripting language dedicated to AI, or must 
+we do it in C++ ? The documentation (" features " section) says there is 
+a language of description for the agents. What it is possible to do with 
+this language?
+ Kind regards,
+
+Akhoun Stéphane
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Fri Mar  8 09:19:56 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g288JtW89161
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:19:55 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:13:27 Z
+Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:41:15 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <38920776226.20020308084115@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g288JtW89161
+Subject: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+Can you give me some tips on portals:
+
+Do I create special geometry in 3dsmax?
+Do I use the link system in 3dsmax to define the relationships?
+
+Thanks,
+Robert Bjarnason
+
+
+
+From robert@in-orbit.net Fri Mar  8 13:59:45 2002
+Received: from quasar.skima.is (quasar.skima.is [212.30.200.205])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g28CxiW90981
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:59:44 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from robert@in-orbit.net)
+Received: from [157.157.146.56] by quasar.skima.is with ESMTP for nel@nevrax.org; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:53:22 Z
+Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:21:09 -0800
+From: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.49) Personal
+Organization: InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+Message-Id: <183937570755.20020308132109@in-orbit.net>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Sender: Robert Bjarnason <robert@in-orbit.net>
+Mime-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by www.nevrax.org id g28CxiW90981
+Subject: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?= <robert@in-orbit.net>
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+Can you give me some tips on portals:
+
+Do I create special geometry in 3dsmax?
+Do I use the link system in 3dsmax to define the relationships?
+
+Thanks,
+Robert Bjarnason
+
+
+
+From vizerie@nevrax.com Mon Mar 11 10:12:13 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2B9CCW19281
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:12:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Received: from nicolasv (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2B95on68920
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:05:50 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from vizerie@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003501c1c8db$f089f2d0$1d01a8c0@nicolasv>
+From: "Nicolas Vizerie" <vizerie@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <PHEJJLNMBCJCMNMBBNIDMEJCCAAA.paulmsiegel@yahoo.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort update
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:05:50 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Paul,
+For info, this message prevent using new datas with old code that don't
+manage them. The serialization code check the version number, and when it is
+higher that the one in the code, an exception is thrown.
+Updating the code usually solve this kind of problems.
+Regards
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Paul Siegel" <paulmsiegel@yahoo.com>
+To: "NeL List" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:59 PM
+Subject: [Nel] STLPort update
+
+
+>
+> It's been a while since I've played with NeL, and since I recently got a
+new
+> computer, I redownloaded all the dependencies and built NeL and Snowballs
+> from scratch.  Everything built fine, but when I tried to launch the app
+it
+> crashed.  I found this in my log:
+>
+> 02/03/06 11:21:21 WRN  756 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched: In
+> Stream: data/shapes/snow.ps: The version in stream is newer than the class
+>
+> I tried scouring the mailing list archive, but found nothing on the
+problem.
+> I next downloaded the distributed binaries on Nevrax.org's download page,
+> and noticed that one of the files in the archive was stlport_vc6.4.5.dll.
+> Well, I made an educated guess that NeL has moved from STLPort 4.0 to 4.5.
+> I downloaded the more recent version of the library, rebuilt, and
+everything
+> worked fine.
+>
+> Anyway, I just wanted to post this in case anyone else came across such a
+> problem.  Ultimately, it would be nice if somewhere it was documented that
+> NeL now requires STLPort 4.5.  I'm thinking code/nel/INSTALL.
+>
+> Paul
+>
+>
+> _________________________________________________________
+> Do You Yahoo!?
+> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Mar 11 10:29:48 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2B9TlW19376
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:29:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2B9NOn69113
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:23:24 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <008d01c1c8de$652f5420$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <PHEJJLNMBCJCMNMBBNIDMEJCCAAA.paulmsiegel@yahoo.com>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] STLPort update
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:23:24 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi Paul,
+
+> 02/03/06 11:21:21 WRN  756 common.cpp 401 : Exception will be launched: In
+> Stream: data/shapes/snow.ps: The version in stream is newer than the class
+
+The problem doesn't come from STLport4.5. You're right, for the Snowballs
+binaries, we used STLport4.5 but it works fine with STLport4.0.
+We had to export a new snow.ps because the old one didn't work. It seems
+that your NeL code was to old to handle the new .ps file format.
+So the problem was resolved when you have updated NeL.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From chafik@nevrax.com Mon Mar 11 11:19:59 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2BAJwW19667
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Received: from sameh (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2BADZn69802
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:13:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from chafik@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <018101c1c8e5$67710290$1001a8c0@sameh>
+From: "sameh chafik Pro" <chafik@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15498.2140.538373.975527@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] AI
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:13:35 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hello loic,
+
+> nel/ai/script/interpret_message_setvalue.h
+
+This source was'nt commit, we are sorry.
+
+> I'll disable AI in the debian package for now. I may be able to
+> re-build this file by hand but I'd first like to be sure it is not
+available
+> somewhere ;-)
+
+If  you don't use Ai there are no problem.
+
+Sameh.
+
+
+
+From lecroart@nevrax.com Mon Mar 11 11:29:52 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2BATpW19726
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:29:51 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Received: from vianneyl (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:23:28 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from lecroart@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <010401c1c8e6$c96446f0$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:23:28 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Subject: [Nel] Download section updated
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+From Nevrax.org news:
+
+A new section for external websites was opened in the download page. It
+contains links to other Internet sites that have NeL and/or Snowballs
+related contents.
+Feel free to send a mail
+mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com?Subject=ExternalDownloadLink to add your page on
+this section.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+From corvazier@nevrax.com Tue Mar 12 16:02:58 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2CF2w231362
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:02:58 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from cyrilc (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2CEuYn84171
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:56:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from corvazier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <003501c1c9d6$2afb2150$1701a8c0@cyrilc>
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <183937570755.20020308132109@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:57:02 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
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+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
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+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Tu peux lui dire deux mots sur les portals ?
+Merci :-)
+
+Hld.
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 22:21
+Subject: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+
+
+> Hi,
+> 
+> Can you give me some tips on portals:
+> 
+> Do I create special geometry in 3dsmax?
+> Do I use the link system in 3dsmax to define the relationships?
+> 
+> Thanks,
+> Robert Bjarnason
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Wed Mar  6 14:50:34 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g26DoXW70909
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:50:34 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from me@lars.in-berlin.de)
+Received: from psych-o-mat (port-213-20-24-6.reverse.qdsl-home.de [213.20.24.6])
+	(authenticated bits=0)
+	by hirsch.in-berlin.de (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -2) with ESMTP id g26Di9mK027326
+	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:44:10 +0100
+X-Envelope-From: me@lars.in-berlin.de
+X-Envelope-To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Received: from [10.20.40.80] (helo=bit-weaver)
+	by psych-o-mat with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16ibqq-0003q3-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:53:04 +0100
+Received: from lars by bit-weaver with local (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16ibm9-0005VQ-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:48:13 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+References: <15488.2960.615197.420521@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<87henznpmm.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+	<005101c1c42a$b9cfd300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+From: Lars Weber <me@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Date: 06 Mar 2002 14:48:12 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <005101c1c42a$b9cfd300$0901a8c0@vianneyl>
+Message-ID: <87wuwp7qoz.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 28
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+"Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> wrote:
+> mouse_listener.cpp line 121:
+>   turnZ.rotateZ ((float) Pi*2.f*(_X-mouseEvent->X));
+> 
+> You can change the factor (2.f) and set a lower value to have a lower mouse
+> sensitive.
+
+I actually got a little used to the current sensitivity now, so it isn't
+really that urgent.  But maybe I'll give this a try in the next few days
+anyway.
+
+> The low framerate is normal I think, because of your Voodoo 4 (perhaps
+> driver are not accelerated or badly accelerated). [...]
+
+Yes, and I didn't really expect much more of my setup, either ;-) [0].
+The card is fast enough to play most of the installed 3D screensavers
+though, and so far I didn't have much use for 3D acceleration aside from
+that :-)
+
+Gruss,
+Lars
+
+[0] Though I must admit that there were some secret hopes...
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From besson@nevrax.com Tue Mar 12 16:28:13 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2CFSD231580
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:28:13 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from besson@nevrax.com)
+Received: from MatthieuB (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2CFLln84422
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:21:47 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from besson@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <002101c1c9d9$a2fde900$2001a8c0@MatthieuB>
+From: "Matthieu Besson" <besson@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <183937570755.20020308132109@in-orbit.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:05:06 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Hi,
+
+The first step is to have your geometry set.
+Next you create in Max special object for portals and clusters.
+A cluster is a convex hull with the node properties cluster set
+A portal is a convex face which is shared by at max 2 clusters
+You have to make your portal / cluster system all by the hand.
+I will make a sample for viewing a cluster system in a while.
+
+Hope it helps.
+
+Matthieu Besson
+Nevrax NeL Developper
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Robert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:21 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+
+
+> Hi,
+> 
+> Can you give me some tips on portals:
+> 
+> Do I create special geometry in 3dsmax?
+> Do I use the link system in 3dsmax to define the relationships?
+> 
+> Thanks,
+> Robert Bjarnason
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Tue Mar 12 18:53:35 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (babel.zehc.net [213.36.100.145])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2CHrZ232563
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:53:35 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16kqLx-0001Mc-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:46:25 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15502.16112.713411.599840@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:46:24 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] AI
+In-Reply-To: sameh chafik Pro's message of 11 March 2002 11:13:35 +0100
+References: <15498.2140.538373.975527@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<018101c1c8e5$67710290$1001a8c0@sameh>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+sameh chafik Pro writes:
+ > Hello loic,
+ > 
+ > > nel/ai/script/interpret_message_setvalue.h
+ > 
+ > This source was'nt commit, we are sorry.
+ > 
+ > > I'll disable AI in the debian package for now. I may be able to
+ > > re-build this file by hand but I'd first like to be sure it is not
+ > available
+ > > somewhere ;-)
+ > 
+ > If  you don't use Ai there are no problem.
+
+	Indeed, that's not a problem for snowballs. But I was somewhat
+concerned to provide a NeL package without including AI. Other people might
+want to use the AI module.
+
+	I'll try again soon and let you know what happens.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From portier@nevrax.com Mon Mar 11 12:09:05 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2BB94W19955
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:09:04 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from portier@nevrax.com)
+Received: from Pierrep (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2BB2fn70461
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:02:41 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from portier@nevrax.com)
+Message-ID: <009401c1c8ec$43868150$1301a8c0@Pierrep>
+From: "Pierre Portier" <portier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+References: <15498.2140.538373.975527@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] AI
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:02:41 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> It looks like a file is missing from the CVS tree that prevents
+> compilation of AI.
+>
+> nel/ai/script/interpret_message_setvalue.h
+>
+> I'll disable AI in the debian package for now. I may be able to
+> re-build this file by hand but I'd first like to be sure it is not
+available
+> somewhere ;-)
+
+Oooops!
+It will be available in tonight's CVS update.
+Thanks!
+Pierre
+
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Mon Mar 11 14:23:23 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2BDNMW20729
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:23:22 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+Received: from miller (fw-ext.nevrax.net [192.168.254.254])
+	by mail.nevrax.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g2BDGxn71931
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:16:59 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:16:59 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFMEDDCEAA.miller@nevrax.com>
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
+X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
+X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
+In-Reply-To: <1281167331213.20020311051030@in-orbit.net>
+X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
+Importance: Normal
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+>This is actually the third time I try sending this
+>post to the NeL mailing-list, I tried two times
+>Friday, hope it get's trough now...
+
+This is strange - our servers were all on line Friday and I haven't received
+any odd list admin warnings ... if anyone else has problems writing to the
+list please let us know and we'll try to work out what's up.
+
+Regards,
+Daniel
+
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Mon Mar 11 23:11:57 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2BMBuW23740
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:11:56 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from me@lars.in-berlin.de)
+Received: from psych-o-mat (port-213-20-24-7.reverse.qdsl-home.de [213.20.24.7])
+	(authenticated bits=0)
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+	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:05:32 +0100
+X-Envelope-From: me@lars.in-berlin.de
+X-Envelope-To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Received: from [10.20.40.80] (helo=bit-weaver)
+	by psych-o-mat with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16kY3u-0001Cn-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:14:34 +0100
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:09:54 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: lists@lars.in-berlin.de
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+References: <15501.6840.528951.658522@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: 11 Mar 2002 23:09:53 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <15501.6840.528951.658522@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Message-ID: <87it8292oe.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 35
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+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org> wrote:
+> 	I generated the necessary package information so that
+> adding 
+> 
+> deb http://loic.dachary.org/debian ./
+> deb-src http://loic.dachary.org/debian ./
+> 
+> to /etc/apt/source.list is possible. 
+
+---8<---
+Get:1 http://loic.dachary.org ./ Packages [1205B]
+Ign http://loic.dachary.org ./ Release
+Get:2 http://loic.dachary.org ./ Sources
+99% [2 Sources gzip 0] [Waiting for file]
+gzip: stdin: not in gzip format
+Err http://loic.dachary.org ./ Sources   
+  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
+Ign http://loic.dachary.org ./ Release   
+Fetched 1360B in 1s (793B/s)
+Failed to fetch http://loic.dachary.org/debian/./Sources  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
+Reading Package Lists... Done
+Building Dependency Tree... Done
+E: Some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
+--->8---
+
+When I download Sources.gz by hand and unzip it, the resulting file is
+empty.
+
+Regards,
+Lars
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
+From miller@nevrax.com Tue Mar 12 10:40:03 2002
+Received: from mail.nevrax.com (gw.nevrax.com [195.68.21.194])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2C9e1W28443
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:40:02 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
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+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:33:38 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from miller@nevrax.com)
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:33:37 +0100
+Message-ID: <JFEPKHHCJGJGHCGGDKEFIEDGCEAA.miller@nevrax.com>
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+Subject: [Nel] Mailing list problem
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+
+We're experiencing problems with the mailing list - many postings aren't
+getting through.
+Cedric, our resident expert isn't about right now - so I'll see what I can
+do - but please be patient
+
+Regards to all
+Daniel
+
+
+From loic@dachary.org Mon Mar 11 21:51:46 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2BKpaW23244
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:51:37 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
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+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15501.5936.594726.236266@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:44:32 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.01 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] Patches for GNU/Linux packaging
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
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+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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+
+--kx6v7vJKno
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Description: message body text
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	Here is a detailed description of the change I had to do in
+order to generate the debian packages. I did not try to "improve"
+anything and limited myself to things that were strictly necessary for
+packaging purposes. I hope you'll find this patch acceptable for the
+CVS tree. Since it is bit over the 15 lines threshold, I guess it raises
+the copyright assignment question once more. Any news on this side ?
+
+	All changes were made so that the previous behaviour does not
+change. I've added things and fixed bugs but did not alter the way
+nel/snowballs/nelns previously behaved in any way, except for the 
+installation of components of course:
+
+	All services daemon (sno_* + *_service) are installed in /usr/sbin
+	instead of /usr/bin.
+
+	Logs go to /var/log/{snowballs,nelns}
+	
+	Configuration files are fetched in /etc/{snowballs,nelns}
+
+	Local state file (login_service.udb) is in /var/games/nelns
+
+	Data is fetched in /usr/share/games/snowballs
+
+Makefiles:
+	- Added numerous missing files in EXTRA_DIST so that 
+	  make dist does a proper job
+	- dist-hook is used to get rid of CVS directories 
+	  leftovers instead of replacing EXTRA_DIST
+	- LDADD mostly suppressed, there is no need to specify
+	  -lnelnet etc., configure does it for us
+	- DIST_SUBDIRS were added where SUBDIRS = @something@ was
+	  used to keep make dist happy
+	- Added numerous missing headers in noinst_HEADERS
+
+acinclude.m4:
+	- Reworked AM_PATH_NEL 
+
+		Priority works as follows (higher to lower)
+		. --with-nel-include and --with-nel-lib
+		. --with-nel
+		. nel-config
+
+		When --with-nel* was specified, libraries were not
+		collected, this was fixed. AC_CHECK_LIB stacks what it
+		finds, the macro uses LDFLAGS (previously unused) to
+		make sure it searches in the right place.
+
+		Comment and removed unused variables
+
+		Replaced MY_NEL_LIB_CHK tricks with play AC_CHECK_LIB.
+		It now takes only three args.
+
+		--without-nel triggers an error
+
+	- Reworked AM_PATH_STLPORT
+
+		--without-stlport triggers an error
+
+		--with-stlport without argument is supported and DTRT
+
+		Priority works as follows (higher to lower)
+		. --with-stlport-include and --with-stlport-lib
+		. --with-stlport
+		It was the opposite and generated some confusion
+		
+		Use AC_CHECK_LIB and AC_CHECK_HEADER rather than a
+		more complex combination of AC_TRY_LINK & CPPFLAGS
+		tricks
+
+		Switch to c++ using AC_LANG_* macros
+
+nel: configure.in, acconfig.h, debug.cpp:
+
+	- created acconfig.h and modified configure.in to define
+	  --without-logging that suppresses *all* log.log + stdout
+	  information
+
+	- debug.cpp uses NEL_DEFAULT_DISPLAYER and NEL_LOG_IN_FILE
+	  to figure out if it should be verbose. The default is to
+	  be verbose on both channels, this is unchanged.
+
+	- -I${top_srcdir} is added to CXXFLAGS + CFLAGS so that 
+	  building in a directory that is not the source directory
+	  works
+
+nel-config.in:
+
+	- New option --ldflags returns -L${libdir}. It is used
+	  by AM_PATH_NEL instead of --libs since AC_CHECK_LIB
+	  already collects available libraries.
+
+service(_5)?.{h,cpp} + all nel services daemons and associated configure.in:
+
+	- NLNET_SERVICE_MAIN takes two more arguments
+	  ConfigDir + LogDir
+
+	- They are defined as static and default to "" so that the
+	  previous behaviour (create all files in current directory)
+	  is preserved.
+
+	- nelns & snowballs configure.in files define the path of the 
+	  log + config directory (log = /var/log/nelns, config = /etc/nelns,
+	  typically) and daemons get them by including config.h. 
+
+	- If config.h is not available (there are people who dislike autoconf
+	  for some reason ;-) the path is set to "", as it was before.
+
+nelns + snowballs configure.in + Makefile.am:
+
+	- added comments to AM_PATH_NEL
+
+	- removed broken AC_CONST (if your c++ compiler does not support
+	  const you're in trouble and having AC_CONST work by switching to
+	  the proper (unused) language is not worth the effort)
+
+	- now install daemons in /usr/sbin instead of /usr/bin
+
+	- install configuration files *.cfg in pkgsysconf that is
+	  defined to $sysconf/{nelns,snowballs}
+
+	- configuration files are fetched from /etc/{snowballs,nelns}
+
+	- game data are fetched from /usr/share/games/snowballs
+
+documentation:
+
+	- various documentation typo fixed
+
+	- recommend 4.5
+
+Here are the patches, against Sunday 10 CVS tree.
+
+
+--kx6v7vJKno
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+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+--kx6v7vJKno--
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Mar 13 11:52:57 2002
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+Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:45:51 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] AI library now in Debian GNU/Linux packages
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+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	The Debian GNU/Linux packages available at 
+http://loic.dachary.org/debian now include the AI library
+thanks to the recent addition of the missing header.
+
+	Enjoy,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Wed Mar 13 11:52:57 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (aboukir-101-1-13-alebeon.adsl.nerim.net [62.212.101.54])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2DAqv239423
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:52:57 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16l6GW-0004NX-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:45:52 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15503.11743.697835.508552@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:45:51 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Subject: [Nel] AI library now in Debian GNU/Linux packages
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
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+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+
+	Hi,
+
+	The Debian GNU/Linux packages available at 
+http://loic.dachary.org/debian now include the AI library
+thanks to the recent addition of the missing header.
+
+	Enjoy,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From loic@dachary.org Thu Mar 14 14:22:30 2002
+Received: from inspiron.dachary.org (babel.zehc.net [213.36.100.145])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2EDMTD55297
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:22:29 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from loic@dachary.org)
+Received: from loic by inspiron.dachary.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16lDAg-0000Qa-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:08:18 +0100
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Message-ID: <15503.38289.882825.480860@inspiron.dachary.org>
+Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:08:17 +0100
+From: Loic Dachary <loic@gnu.org>
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+In-Reply-To: lists@lars.in-berlin.de's message of 11 March 2002 23:09:53 +0100
+References: <15501.6840.528951.658522@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<87it8292oe.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.1.1
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Reply-To: loic@gnu.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+ > Get:1 http://loic.dachary.org ./ Packages [1205B]
+ > Ign http://loic.dachary.org ./ Release
+ > Get:2 http://loic.dachary.org ./ Sources
+ > 99% [2 Sources gzip 0] [Waiting for file]
+ > gzip: stdin: not in gzip format
+ > Err http://loic.dachary.org ./ Sources   
+ >   Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
+
+	The problem was fixed a bit later (source package
+information failed because I forgot to debuild clean after
+package generation in sub directories).
+
+	It is now working.
+
+	Cheers,
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+12 bd  Magenta         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75010    Paris         T: 33 1 42 45 07 97          loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+From me@lars.in-berlin.de Thu Mar 14 14:32:53 2002
+Received: from hirsch.in-berlin.de (hirsch.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.6])
+	by www.nevrax.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g2EDWqD55427
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:52 +0100 (CET)
+	(envelope-from me@lars.in-berlin.de)
+Received: from psych-o-mat (port-213-20-25-45.reverse.qdsl-home.de [213.20.25.45])
+	(authenticated bits=0)
+	by hirsch.in-berlin.de (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -2) with ESMTP id g2EDQRHI003685
+	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT)
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:26:27 +0100
+X-Envelope-From: me@lars.in-berlin.de
+X-Envelope-To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Received: from [10.20.40.80] (helo=bit-weaver)
+	by psych-o-mat with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16lVOF-0000Po-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:35:31 +0100
+Received: from lars by bit-weaver with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
+	id 16lVJp-0000eL-00
+	for <nel@nevrax.org>; Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:30:57 +0100
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+From: lists@lars.in-berlin.de
+Subject: Re: [Nel] another snowballs server
+References: <15499.63937.674173.496436@inspiron.dachary.org>
+	<87r8mow1w0.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de> <87n0xcw07t.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Date: 14 Mar 2002 14:30:57 +0100
+In-Reply-To: <87n0xcw07t.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Message-ID: <87elin5l9q.fsf@lars.in-berlin.de>
+Lines: 10
+User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1
+MIME-Version: 1.0
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Sender: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+Errors-To: nel-admin@nevrax.org
+X-BeenThere: nel@nevrax.org
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8
+Precedence: bulk
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+List-Help: <mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=help>
+List-Post: <mailto:nel@nevrax.org>
+List-Subscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=subscribe>
+List-Id: Developer's list for the NeL platform <nel.nevrax.org>
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel>,
+	<mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org?subject=unsubscribe>
+List-Archive: <http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/>
+
+> No I even made it segfault.  This didn't happen to me before and I wasn't
+s/No/Now/
+
+Regards,
+Lars
+
+-- 
+[ Lars Weber ]------< me @ lars.in-berlin.de >----[ GPG-ID: 1383B42E ]
++++ fingerprint: 44B1 1D23 DD53 E6B2 4AAB 4C36 0323 9141 1383 B42E +++
+[ Using GNU ]----< www.gnu.org | www.debian.org >---[ Running Debian ]
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000075.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000075.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2d4ac8d5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000075.html
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000076.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:09:23 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000076.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#75">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#75">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello everybody,
+
+At least it comes, you should be able to get something to compile and running
+under GNU/Linux platforms ...
+
+Checkout the INSTALL file, it will show you the path to follow :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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+	
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000076.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000076.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jnmoyne%40tibco.com">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>Jean-Noel Moyne</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jnmoyne%40tibco.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">jnmoyne@tibco.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:53:09 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000075.html">[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000077.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#76">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#76">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Just had a look at your site and your project because my brother is
+going to work with you guys (as a graphic artist). I see that you have
+need for fast reliable real-time asynchronous (and probably one to many)
+network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+server communication, not server to client.
+
+You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+
+While TIBCO makes a complete messaging system that will use PGM and that
+is a commercial product, we are also releasing an Open Source version of
+the PGM protocol stack (which is probably all you need, and all you
+would want to use, being an Open Source project yourself).
+
+As a suggestion from a network professional with a lot of experience
+designing large scale scalable real time oriented distributed systems,
+you should take a look at it.
+
+<A HREF="http://pgm.tibco.com/">http://pgm.tibco.com/</A>
+
+    JNM
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000077.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000077.html
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+ <HEAD>
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000076.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000079.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:39:18 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000076.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000079.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#77">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#77">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello !
+Just one question.
+
+&gt;<i>From <A HREF="http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt">http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt</A>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> PGM runs over a datagram multicast protocol such as IP multicast [5].
+</I>
+AFAIK, many ISP's ban multicast traffic and many users'll be unable to use
+software based on it.
+Am I wrong or missing something ?
+TIA
+
+--
+Dim
+
+
+Jean-Noel Moyne wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> Just had a look at your site and your project because my brother is
+</I>&gt;<i> going to work with you guys (as a graphic artist). I see that you have
+</I>&gt;<i> need for fast reliable real-time asynchronous (and probably one to many)
+</I>&gt;<i> network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+</I>&gt;<i> server communication, not server to client.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+</I>&gt;<i> protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+</I>&gt;<i> design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> While TIBCO makes a complete messaging system that will use PGM and that
+</I>&gt;<i> is a commercial product, we are also releasing an Open Source version of
+</I>&gt;<i> the PGM protocol stack (which is probably all you need, and all you
+</I>&gt;<i> would want to use, being an Open Source project yourself).
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> As a suggestion from a network professional with a lot of experience
+</I>&gt;<i> designing large scale scalable real time oriented distributed systems,
+</I>&gt;<i> you should take a look at it.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://pgm.tibco.com/">http://pgm.tibco.com/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>     JNM
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000078.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000078.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000079.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000080.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:08:20 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000079.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000080.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Jean-Noel Moyne:
+&gt;<i> You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+</I>&gt;<i> protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+</I>&gt;<i> design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+</I>
+Hmmm, about everyone around started talking about, then dismissing it
+as unsuited to our needs, but that's chiefly due to one misunderstanding.
+
+At first we didn't see the &quot;server to server&quot; sentence.
+
+We still don't know how well multicasting can be useful in our server
+architecture, because so far, we have very few one-to-many messages
+across servers. Most services discuss with a specific target on a specific
+service.
+
+However, we still have lots of discussion for the &quot;world service&quot;,
+i.e. the service which &quot;simulates&quot; the world and run the various objects
+and NPC agents. That one might be a candidate for a multicast protocol,
+since we can expect replication of objects across multiple world services.
+
+This tie in with another question which I didn't had time to reply to,
+regarding how to &quot;split&quot; the world across the multiple world services.
+If the split is done by geography (the UO model), then there is little
+need of a PGM-based protocol, because most objects will be accessed by
+2 world services (edges), or at most 3 (T-intersections). However, if the
+split is done instead by reference (i.e. we cluster an agent with the
+agents that refer to it more often), then we have a higher redundancy
+of agents on servers, and a multicast is probably the best method to
+send message to these agents.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:11:10 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>According to Dim Segebart:
+&gt;<i> Hello !
+</I>&gt;<i> Just one question.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;From <A HREF="http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt">http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;&gt; PGM runs over a datagram multicast protocol such as IP multicast [5].
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> AFAIK, many ISP's ban multicast traffic and many users'll be unable to use
+</I>&gt;<i> software based on it.
+</I>&gt;<i> Am I wrong or missing something ?
+</I>&gt;<i> TIA
+</I>
+And Jean-Noel Moyne said:
+&gt;<i> network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+</I>&gt;<i> server communication, not server to client.
+</I>
+Note &quot;server to server&quot;. What Jean-Noel was suggesting was not a protocol
+to communicate with the clients, but a protocol to communicate between
+the various servers that constitute a world cluster.
+
+Since these clusters will be located in a single facility, on a dedicated
+switch, the issue of IP filtering do not apply :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:13:59 +0100 (MET)</I>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> At first we didn't see the &quot;server to server&quot; sentence.
+</I>
+Ok, I have a dummy question, but when it is better to have multicast 
+to a server delivering the messages to the rest of servers?
+
+How portable/compatible is mulitcast technology?
+
+</pre>
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+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:37:00 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+&gt;<i> &gt; At first we didn't see the &quot;server to server&quot; sentence.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Ok, I have a dummy question, but when it is better to have multicast 
+</I>&gt;<i> to a server delivering the messages to the rest of servers?
+</I>
+Quite simple: When you need to send the same message to more than one
+server. As soon as you need to send a message to multiple servers,
+you will tie up bandwidth and CPU resending the same message over and over
+to each server.
+
+Consider the following model. Each agent (which represent an object, NPC,
+PC, the door, the lamp, whatever entity in your world) is represented
+typically by an object in a &quot;world service process&quot;. Once your world
+becomes large, you need multiple processes. What happens when an agent
+want to &quot;talk&quot; to another agent on a different process. The agent, in an
+ideal (and OO) world, merely talks to an object located in its process
+space, said object being either the recipient agent itself, or merely a
+replica, which will forward the message across the network to the real
+agent.
+
+You don't need multicast for that: its straight 1-to-1.
+
+However, what if the message is &quot;what is your current XYZ&quot;. That's a fairly
+frequent question. If you need to query across the network, you'll quickly
+end up loading the net, just to find the value three variables.
+
+That's where PGM/multicast intervenes. In that model, the agent, when he
+changes some of his variables, notifies the replica that &quot;XYZ are now...&quot;.
+I spoke about how the world services organise where an agent resides. In
+some models, you have about one, maybe two replicas, which you can notify
+using a standard TCP stream. Or RDP. But, if you want a load-balancing
+system, you quickly end up with a replica of an object in most world
+service processes. It becomes then more efficient to multicast the updates
+as above to all processes, and update them all in one sweep.
+
+&gt;<i> How portable/compatible is mulitcast technology?
+</I>
+Multicast is working, right now. However, to work across separate networks,
+it requires specific support from IP routers, and resources, which most
+providers aren't willing to dedicate (multi-network multicast is mostly
+used for video/audio &quot;broadcasts&quot;, video conferencing or shows).
+
+As for PGM, well, the current library has lots of empty directories and
+&quot;TODO&quot; notes in comments, so it's clearly a work in progress :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:48:18 +0100 (MET)</I>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> That's where PGM/multicast intervenes. In that model, the agent, 
+</I>when he
+&gt;<i> changes some of his variables, notifies the replica that &quot;XYZ are 
+</I>now...&quot;.
+&gt;<i> I spoke about how the world services organise where an agent 
+</I>resides. In
+&gt;<i> some models, you have about one, maybe two replicas, which you can 
+</I>notify
+&gt;<i> using a standard TCP stream. Or RDP. But, if you want a 
+</I>load-balancing
+&gt;<i> system, you quickly end up with a replica of an object in most world
+</I>&gt;<i> service processes. It becomes then more efficient to multicast the 
+</I>updates
+&gt;<i> as above to all processes, and update them all in one sweep.
+</I>
+Ok, I always have though of load balancing as load-work division 
+between servers.
+
+I think that the above kind of working can have several inconsistences 
+, just take a look to some distributed Mutual exclusion algos.
+
+Just imagine that both copies of a object multicast different 
+positions, you have to choose what is the best one, and whatever your 
+choose is, it will be wrong, and servers can't be wrong.
+
+Replycating work can be a real pain.
+And for what you have said multicast isn't a solution for end-users.
+
+I think that IPv6 will fix these things, by having a multicast in the 
+standart, isn't it?
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:11:26 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+&gt;<i> Just imagine that both copies of a object multicast different 
+</I>&gt;<i> positions, you have to choose what is the best one, and whatever your 
+</I>&gt;<i> choose is, it will be wrong, and servers can't be wrong.
+</I>
+Ahem, no. I might have used object and agent in various contexts, but
+an agent is the only one which is authorised to change its state. The
+other objects are &quot;replica&quot;, or passive objects. Each agent may exist
+only as a single copy over the set of processes, and he is the entity
+responsible for updating the local states of the replica objects in
+the other processes.
+
+If you want &quot;what is your XYZ&quot;, the local replica answers. However, if
+you want &quot;teleport to XYZ&quot;, the message is transmitted across the network
+to the unique agent, which updates its internal state, and then retransmits
+to all replicas &quot;set internal state XYZ&quot;. And the latter is when multicast
+helps when there are many replicas to update.
+
+&gt;<i> Replycating work can be a real pain.
+</I>
+Hey, if I could buy a terahertz processor and have everything run on a
+single process, I'd be happy too :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</H1>
+    <B>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:32 +0100 (MET)</I>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> Ahem, no. I might have used object and agent in various contexts, 
+</I>but
+&gt;<i> an agent is the only one which is authorised to change its state. 
+</I>The
+&gt;<i> other objects are &quot;replica&quot;, or passive objects. Each agent may 
+</I>exist
+&gt;<i> only as a single copy over the set of processes, and he is the 
+</I>entity
+&gt;<i> responsible for updating the local states of the replica objects in
+</I>&gt;<i> the other processes.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> If you want &quot;what is your XYZ&quot;, the local replica answers. However, 
+</I>if
+&gt;<i> you want &quot;teleport to XYZ&quot;, the message is transmitted across the 
+</I>network
+&gt;<i> to the unique agent, which updates its internal state, and then 
+</I>retransmits
+&gt;<i> to all replicas &quot;set internal state XYZ&quot;. And the latter is when 
+</I>multicast
+&gt;<i> helps when there are many replicas to update.
+</I>
+Ok, as far as I am thinking about agents, a replica only show info but 
+can't process code. So all the modificators should be send to the 
+main agent, that then update.
+
+There is still the possibility of an object to get two contradictory 
+updates at the same time. To avoid this you should order the messages, 
+something that I feel is unefficient and ugly.
+
+Just image agent is a ball, and then two user decide to kick the two 
+replica of the agent, so the replicas get the kick commnand and send 
+it to the agent.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; Replycating work can be a real pain.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Hey, if I could buy a terahertz processor and have everything run on 
+</I>a
+&gt;<i> single process, I'd be happy too :)
+</I>
+If you need a terahertz processor to run the server, you better start 
+again the design stage.
+
+Just I want to note that replycanting the work can lead to ugly 
+things and race conditions.
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</H1>
+    <B>David Mentre</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>22 Dec 2000 10:06:41 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000084.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000086.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#85">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#85">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#85">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all nelers,
+
+There are two bugs at nevrax.org:
+
+ 1. the <A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A> address is invalid:
+
+... while talking to www.nevrax.org.:
+&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> RCPT To:&lt;<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+</I>&lt;&lt;&lt; 550 5.1.1 &lt;<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A>&gt;... User unknown
+550 5.1.1 &lt;<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A>&gt;... User unknown
+
+
+ 2. the bug system is no longer working at the time of this email:
+
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi">http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi</A>
+Software error:
+
+Can't connect to database server. at globals.pl line 40. 
+
+For help, please send mail to the webmaster (<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A>),
+giving this error message and the time and date of the error. 
+
+
+Hope it helps,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@inria.fr">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000086.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000086.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..cb98ac0f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000086.html
@@ -0,0 +1,76 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000085.html">
+   
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:22:08 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000085.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#86">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#86">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#86">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#86">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to David Mentre:
+&gt;<i> There are two bugs at nevrax.org:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  1. the <A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A> address is invalid:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> ... while talking to www.nevrax.org.:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;&gt; RCPT To:&lt;<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &lt;&lt;&lt; 550 5.1.1 &lt;<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A>&gt;... User unknown
+</I>&gt;<i> 550 5.1.1 &lt;<A HREF="mailto:webmaster@nevrax.org">webmaster@nevrax.org</A>&gt;... User unknown
+</I>
+Hrrrmmm? There's a comment in front of the alias (can't figure out why.
+My name's there, but it got commented out).
+
+&gt;<i>  2. the bug system is no longer working at the time of this email:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi">http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> Software error:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Can't connect to database server. at globals.pl line 40. 
+</I>
+No error messages, and the sql server went down. I'll keep an eye on it
+for today.
+
+Please note that the Nevrax offices are closed during the Christmas-New Year
+period. This list and the site shouldn't suffer, but don't expect prompt
+response to any problem or question you may raise.
+
+Happy holiday season all, and see you next century!
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#86">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c529c94c
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-December Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-December Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec  4 15:09:23 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 12<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000078.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="78"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000079.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="79"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000081.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="81"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000083.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="83"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000086.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="86"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000075.html">[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="75"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000080.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="80"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000082.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="82"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000084.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="84"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000085.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="85"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000076.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="76"></A><I>Jean-Noel Moyne</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000077.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="77"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2b87848b
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-December Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-December Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec  4 15:09:23 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 12<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000075.html">[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="75"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000076.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="76"></A><I>Jean-Noel Moyne</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000077.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="77"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000078.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="78"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000079.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="79"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000080.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="80"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000081.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="81"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000082.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="82"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000083.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="83"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000084.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="84"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000085.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="85"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000086.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="86"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
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+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
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+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/index.html
new file mode 100644
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-December Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-December Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec  4 15:09:23 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 12<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00975938963- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000075.html">[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="985"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--0 00976261989- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000076.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="986"></A><I>Jean-Noel Moyne</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00976261989-00976268358- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000077.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="987"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00976261989-00976268358-00976612270- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000079.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="989"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00976261989-00976612100- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000078.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="988"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000080.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="990"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000081.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="991"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820-00976614498- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000082.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="992"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820-00976614498-00976615886- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000083.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="993"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820-00976614498-00976615886-00976616432- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000084.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="994"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00977472401- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000085.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="995"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00977472401-00977473328- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000086.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="996"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/subject.html
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index 00000000..5d8089c7
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-December Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-December Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec  4 15:09:23 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 12<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000085.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="85"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000086.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="86"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000075.html">[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="75"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000076.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="76"></A><I>Jean-Noel Moyne</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000077.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="77"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000078.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="78"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000079.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="79"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000080.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="80"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000081.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="81"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000082.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="82"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000083.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="83"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000084.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="84"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e74c8b2e
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-December Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-December Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Dec  4 15:09:23 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 12<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00975938963- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000075.html">[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="985"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--0 00976261989- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000076.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="986"></A><I>Jean-Noel Moyne</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00976261989-00976268358- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000077.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="987"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00976261989-00976268358-00976612270- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000079.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="989"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00976261989-00976612100- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000078.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="988"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000080.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="990"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000081.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="991"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820-00976614498- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000082.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="992"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820-00976614498-00976615886- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000083.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="993"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00976261989-00976612100-00976612439-00976613820-00976614498-00976615886-00976616432- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000084.html">[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture</A> <A NAME="994"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00977472401- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000085.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="995"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00977472401-00977473328- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000086.html">[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="996"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
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+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
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+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000002.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000002.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] What kind of game are you making?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000004.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] What kind of game are you making?">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:19:05 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#2">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello.
+I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+have to be free even though the code is free.
+I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+What kind of game are you making?
+How long have you been working on NeL?
+
+Best Regards,
+David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000003.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000003.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] problem about the bug report interface</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nhognon%40noos.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000004.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000005.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nhognon%40noos.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] problem about the bug report interface">nhognon@noos.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:42:07 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hy ....
+
+yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+but i encounter a problem to report it.
+
+on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+the right part of the page is hidden
+so i use internet explorer :((
+but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+fine ....
+
+that's all ...
+
+
+-- 
+ Nicolas Hognon (aka SilentBob)
+ home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A> / www.cblt.org
+ work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@next-url.com">nicolash@next-url.com</A> / www.next-url.com
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000004.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000004.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] What kind of game are you making?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000002.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000003.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] What kind of game are you making?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:16:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#4">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>:
+&gt;<i> I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+</I>
+Thanks for the attention. And the questions - I'm lazy, and couldn't
+find anything to put in the FAQ yet, so your questions will serve as the
+initial set :)
+
+&gt;<i> You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+</I>&gt;<i> have to be free even though the code is free.
+</I>&gt;<i> I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+</I>
+A good assumption. Yes, we are making a game using that platform, or
+we are making that platform for our game, depending on how you look at
+it.
+
+&gt;<i> What kind of game are you making?
+</I>
+We are working on, what else, a MMORPG &quot;whose details are yet to be
+announced (blah blah)&quot;. Due to the marketing plans putting a gun on my
+head, I'm not at a liberty to discuss the game content and so on :(
+
+We're trying to be as general as possible, but the emphasis is definitively
+on multiplayer RPG.
+
+&gt;<i> How long have you been working on NeL?
+</I>
+It depends on how you look at it. We've been in pre-planning stages since
+march 2000; looking at architecture options, development contraints,
+potentials pre-existing bits, interesting algorithms, and so on. The
+real, definitive coding has started in earnest early september, which
+is why NeL is not at the stage where you can see anything right sexy
+on your screen now; we're busy filling in the fundations of the library.
+
+With 9 full-time people on the programming staff, however, you can expect
+things to move rather fast. We do have deadlines, which include having a
+visible game skeleton within the next months, and the game proper going
+beta in late 2001, early 2002.
+
+What else can I say. We do expect to provide some form of game data quickly,
+because we don't expect everyone to suddendly turn into a professional
+3D modeler and artist to fill in, so don't despair yet at lack of game data
+(the data will reside in a separate module than the 'code' CVS module
+ available right now).
+
+Can't say what's the &quot;demo data&quot; will be, except it won't be our true
+game data, will be chilly, and you can expect to meet some non-flying birds
+all over the place :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] problem about the bug report interface</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:yan%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000003.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000006.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</H1>
+    <B>Yan Babilliot</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:yan%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] problem about the bug report interface">yan@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>09 Nov 2000 12:46:40 -0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#5">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#5">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Hy ....
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+</I>&gt;<i> but i encounter a problem to report it.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+</I>&gt;<i> to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+</I>&gt;<i> the right part of the page is hidden
+</I>&gt;<i> so i use internet explorer :((
+</I>&gt;<i> but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+</I>&gt;<i> fine ....
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> that's all ...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+Thank for the bug-report.
+You should now be able to report bugs with Netscape/Windows ;)
+
+
+
+-- 
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ef8ca117
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cary%40farriersoft.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000005.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000008.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+    <B>Cary Farrier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cary%40farriersoft.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">cary@farriersoft.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:50:21 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#6">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#6">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+(SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+
+Any thoughts?
+
+-&gt; Cary
+--
+
+Cary Farrier    
+Farrier Software, Inc.                        (303) 875-9148 fax/message
+<A HREF="mailto:cary@farriersoft.com">cary@farriersoft.com</A>                        &lt;<A HREF="http://www.farriersoft.com">http://www.farriersoft.com</A>&gt;
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e4f3c544
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html
@@ -0,0 +1,156 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000015.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000010.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</H1>
+    <B>Stefan Nilsen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:43:58 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#7">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi guys.
+
+I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed 
+home this thing?
+
+Look below for my trial and (mostly) error.
+
+I would like to RTFM, but i don't find any :-(
+
+Pls help me!
+
+Btw, I run SuSE 7.0 if that helps anyone, and my computer is Y2K safe :-)
+
+----- cut here -----
+
+A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+
+
+I have tried the following commands:
+aclocal  
+
+(i got myself an aclocal.m4)
+
+automake 
+
+automake: configure.in: required file `./install-sh' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./mkinstalldirs' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./missing' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.guess' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.sub' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./INSTALL' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./COPYING' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found   
+
+automake -a
+
+automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./missing'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.guess'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.sub'
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./INSTALL'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./COPYING'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found  
+
+autoconf
+
+This gives me some of the missing files in the step above.
+
+automake -a  (again...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found  
+
+autoheader
+
+(silence...)
+
+automake -a (a final time...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found   
+
+./configure
+
+...
+...
+...
+checking for fcntl.h... yes
+checking for unistd.h... yes
+checking for working const... yes
+updating cache ./config.cache
+creating ./config.status
+creating Makefile
+creating src/Makefile
+creating src/misc/Makefile
+creating src/net/Makefile
+creating include/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./include/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating lib/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./lib/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating doc/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./doc/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating include/config.h    
+
+make
+
+Making all in include
+make[1]: Entering directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1       
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000008.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000008.html
new file mode 100644
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000006.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000011.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:32:47 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#8">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Cary Farrier:
+&gt;<i> I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+</I>&gt;<i> to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+</I>&gt;<i> (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+</I>
+Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+
+Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..31d145c6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] List settings changes</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000019.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000012.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] List settings changes</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] List settings changes">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:41:37 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#9">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#9">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#9">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#9">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Administrative note: I've switched the list settings. Made the list
+membership private - i.e. you have to enter your password to access
+the list members, in order to avoid spammers grabbing the list -, and
+what's more important, redirected replies to mailing list itself.
+
+If you want to reply to the sender of the message itself, you now have
+to use a group reply, and then edit the recipients to remove the list.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c2933e5c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html
@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000007.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000019.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:09:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#10">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#10">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed 
+</I>&gt;<i> home this thing?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+
+We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+
+&gt;<i> A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+</I>
+Thanks for your help ! :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d7ac46f3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html
@@ -0,0 +1,80 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000008.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000013.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+    <B>Bryce Harrington</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 02:22:23 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#11">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Cary, 
+
+The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits. 
+
+Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+
+Longer answer:  
+<A HREF="http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/docs/stlhelp.txt">http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/docs/stlhelp.txt</A>
+
+The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+than by Microsoft.  Detailed errata is available here:
+    <A HREF="http://www.dinkumware.com/">http://www.dinkumware.com/</A>
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+&gt;<i> According to Cary Farrier:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+</I>&gt;<i> interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+</I>&gt;<i> there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+</I>&gt;<i> for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+</I>&gt;<i> you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c6973690
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html
@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] WorldForge</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000009.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000014.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:29:31 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#12">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>).
+Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fde686a0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html
@@ -0,0 +1,93 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000011.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000015.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:43:48 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#13">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+</I>&gt;<i> very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+</I>
+ok, this define disables the macro min &amp; max, it's same behavior as doing
+#undef min #undef max
+but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+*no* min
+definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &amp;
+max
+template function in our code... no very cool...
+
+&gt;<i> Longer answer:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I><A HREF="http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/doc">http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/doc</A>
+s/stlhelp.txt
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+</I>&gt;<i> than by Microsoft.  Detailed errata is available here:
+</I>&gt;<i>     <A HREF="http://www.dinkumware.com/">http://www.dinkumware.com/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Bryce
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; According to Cary Farrier:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Bryce Harrington
+</I>&gt;<i> bryce @ neptune.net
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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+   <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:39:36 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Greetings to you all ... :-)
+
+
+On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+&gt;<i> Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.=">http://www.worldforge.=</A>
+</I>org).
+
+Whooo hooo :-)
+
+&gt;<i> Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+</I>
+Good question, I'm listening too ..
+
+	Thierry Mallard, a.k.a Shaman on Worldforge.org ;-)
+	(who didn't do much on this)
+
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |    =20
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoL0GgACgkQGBtCB6PQIcs6PACgyR9Uzbymw/yEYYnbrhGLulAl
+a88AoJxjE9nBMJkE1+yXHk2LjzTTEWXe
+=hdVU
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+    <B>Bryce Harrington</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 03:43:08 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Heh, well sorry but that's MS for ya...  
+
+As I recall, if you go MFC-free this particular issue will vanish.
+However there are other insidious STL bugs with Visual C++.
+
+If in fact you are using MFC, I would urge you to cease doing so at the
+earliest convenience.  Not only for portability reasons (MFC *ain't*
+portable, especially not backwards-wise) but also because it is a poor
+architecture for GUI development, and is not really in the GPL spirit of
+things.  If you intend to conduct your development openly as a net
+project, then crossplatformness is going to be especially treasured by
+you.  There are many options for crossplatform GUI libs.  Let me know if
+you'd like to discuss this more.  My two preferred libs are wxWindows
+(good for OS-matching widgets for editors and similar), or libuta (SDL
+compatible and skinnable).  Mozilla has another cross platform GUI lib
+but I've not used it in its current incarnation so don't know whether
+it's usable independently of Mozilla.
+
+FWIW, I always stick this boilerplate code in any file that uses STL
+that I'd like to compile with MSVC 4.2:
+
+#ifdef _MSC_VER
+// Fix broken STL implementation in MSVC 4.2
+// Include files (for MSVC)
+#pragma warning(disable: 4786)  // Kludge to get around bug in MSVC 4.2
+#pragma warning(disable: 4788)  // See above
+#endif
+
+I think you may be stuck including your own max/min template functions.
+That's a pretty minor thing compared with some of the patches you may
+have to make to work around some of the other issues (especially if you
+want to support pre-6.0 MSVC).  
+
+Ultimately, you're going to want to trim down use of STL anyway, so you
+can recover the performance loss.  We still use STL at WorldForge, for
+instance, but some simple tests show that hand coded, non-templated map
+and list classes provide some modest performance gains, and some day
+when we're down to squeezing out the last bits of performance, we'll
+probably be pulling STL out ourselves.
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> ok, this define disables the macro min &amp; max, it's same behavior as doing
+</I>&gt;<i> #undef min #undef max
+</I>&gt;<i> but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+</I>&gt;<i> *no* min
+</I>&gt;<i> definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &amp;
+</I>&gt;<i> max
+</I>&gt;<i> template function in our code... no very cool...
+</I>
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+    <B>Bryce Harrington</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:03:48 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+&gt;<i> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Whooo hooo :-)
+</I>
+*Grin*  Hiya.
+ 
+&gt;<i> &gt; Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Good question, I'm listening too ..
+</I>
+Ah, well at this point I'm just being a pair of ears.  I'm hoping to get
+a pointer to something describing what the group's plan is or some feel
+for the &quot;big picture&quot;.
+
+(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+get to roast a marshmallow or two.  *wink*)
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:olivier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">olivier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:18:09 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At 03:03 PM 11/10/00 -0800, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself 
+</I>&gt;<i> (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>).
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Whooo hooo :-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>*Grin*  Hiya.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Good question, I'm listening too ..
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+</I>&gt;<i>combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+</I>&gt;<i>crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+</I>&gt;<i>get to roast a marshmallow or two.  *wink*)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>--
+</I>&gt;<i>Bryce Harrington
+</I>&gt;<i>bryce @ neptune.net
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>_______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i>Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+--
+&quot;Minds are like parachutes. They work best when open.&quot;
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+    <B>Sal</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:18:21 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+First a little rant to explain my being here: :-)
+
+    I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce.  Though not nearly as
+famous ;-)   I stumbled upon Nevrax the other day and am very interested in
+its development.  My goal a few years back was to help create a free,
+massively multiplayer online RPG system, one that I could enjoy myself and
+that others could build from to make their own persistant online worlds.
+And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+to achieve such a goal.
+
+    Most opensource projects that start up have caught my eye, the first
+being the Ultima online emulator scene which  I was a part of for a long
+time, coding admin tools, NPC ai, network code, etc. Whatever seemed the
+most challenging task.   I got soon fed up with having to deal with the idea
+that all the hard work might not even turn out to be legal, and all the
+problems that OSI provided for the emu scene I didnt care for.  So I then
+came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+gaming system.
+
+    So I took on the responsibility of developer XClient, a 3d client.  The
+root of its homepage is here, if anyone's interested:
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/">http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/</A>
+
+    Some shots of its recent developments (a terrain engine) are here:
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain1.jpg">http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain1.jpg</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain2.jpg">http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain2.jpg</A>
+    (Its very early in development)
+
+    Some old out of date client shots:
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/screenshots/">http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/screenshots/</A>
+
+    And lastly, a goals paper that I've recently written to illustrate what
+the goals are in XClient development.  This one I recommend reading above
+the others.
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/developer/goals">http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/developer/goals</A>
+
+    I've also created a Map editor (XEdit) a UDP networking library based
+off of the GPLd quake code (XUDP) and a simple test server (XServer).  All
+of this and XClient are in Worldforge cvs for those interested.  If there
+are questions about any of these things, please ask!
+
+    Anyhow, yes there is a point to all this.  It seems that a lot of
+Worldforge's goals and development are in tandem with Nevrax's.  So,  I
+thought it would be worth it to see  1) how compatible our projects are and
+2) if we might be able to help each other out in any form, whether it be
+artwork, code, or knowledge.  3) how much interest, if any, there is in
+sharing efforts.
+
+    So if I could ask a few questions.  I tried finding out some information
+through the website, but some questions remain:
+
+1)  I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+project also developing a specific game that uses the library?  If so what
+details of it are known?  As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+
+2)  What is the development strategy?  For example Worldforge will be
+developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'.  Will you guys be
+doing a similar thing?
+
+3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being targeted
+(high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+
+4)  I get this question a lot :-)  Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+
+5)  What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+
+6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+7)  Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started?  And if
+so,  why was it deemed necessary to start another,  independant effort with
+the same goals?
+
+8)  Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will use
+in the following areas:
+                - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+                - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+                - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+any?)
+                - Model format(s)
+                - Texture format(s)
+
+9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+free software? :-)
+
+
+    Thats about all I have for now.  I'm sure more will come up in the
+future.  You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair questions.
+
+    Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+efforts.  Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working towards.
+I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+
+- Sal
+<A HREF="mailto:sferro@wojo.com">sferro@wojo.com</A>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000019.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000019.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</H1>
+    <B>Stefan Nilsen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:55:37 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+</I>
+Ok, that explains it. Maybe I'm not stupid after all... :-)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000020.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000020.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3c97275b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000020.html
@@ -0,0 +1,97 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some Linux patches</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000030.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000024.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some Linux patches</H1>
+    <B>Stefan Nilsen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some Linux patches">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:04:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I made som fixes for compile on Linux.
+
+This is the first time i submit a patch, so please tell me if i'm doing 
+anything wrong.
+
+Index: Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.1 Makefile.am
+9c9
+&lt; SUBDIRS= include src lib doc
+---
+&gt;<i> SUBDIRS= src doc
+</I>Index: src/net/base_socket.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.16
+diff -r1.16 base_socket.cpp
+40a41,42
+&gt;<i> #define __need_timeval
+</I>&gt;<i> #include &lt;bits/time.h&gt;
+</I>42c44
+&lt; #include &lt;netinet/tcp/h&gt;
+---
+&gt;<i> #include &lt;netinet/tcp.h&gt;
+</I>261c263
+&lt; 	int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+&gt;<i> 	socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+</I>344c346
+&lt; 	int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+&gt;<i> 	socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+</I>374c376
+&lt;
+---
+&gt;<i>
+</I>
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000021.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000021.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:58:30 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Sal,
+
+My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too 
+much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically 
+oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it 
+would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in the 
+FAQ.
+I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+
+At 04:18 PM 11/11/00 -0500, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce.  Though not nearly as
+</I>&gt;<i>famous ;-)
+</I>
+Or so you think... ;)
+
+&gt;<i>And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+</I>&gt;<i>to achieve such a goal.
+</I>
+Thanks for the attention.
+We hope and believe so too.
+
+&gt;<i>So I then
+</I>&gt;<i>came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+</I>&gt;<i>opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+</I>&gt;<i>gaming system.
+</I>
+Yes, WorldForge is a very impressive project with a very, very large scope. 
+We are all admirative of your capacity to handle such a large and diverse 
+community. Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially 
+daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+
+Here at Nevrax, we do not intend to have such a large range of activity. We 
+are concentrating on a 3D client (no 2D, text, etc) and we are doing all 
+the artwork/game design internally.
+Nevrax.org will focus on fostering a &quot;technical&quot; community.
+
+&gt;<i>1) how compatible our projects are
+</I>
+I'll let the coders answer on the technical aspect. However, on a more 
+philosophical point of vue, I'd say our project are very compatible, 
+siblings really, since they are both GPL.
+
+&gt;<i>1)  I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+</I>&gt;<i>project also developing a specific game that uses the library?
+</I>
+Yes. we are currently developing a yet unannounced commercial MMORPG.
+
+&gt;<i>If so what
+</I>&gt;<i>details of it are known?  As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+</I>
+At this time, I'm sorry to say we cannot disclose any information 
+concerning game design / artwork. However things are bound to change as we 
+go along, and some information will start trickling out in the coming months.
+
+&gt;<i>2)  What is the development strategy?  For example Worldforge will be
+</I>&gt;<i>developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+</I>&gt;<i>etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'.  Will you guys be
+</I>&gt;<i>doing a similar thing?
+</I>
+Not in the sense of WF (i.e lots of intermediary games). We are working on 
+a single game. However, we do have a number of milestones. Also by the end 
+of the year, we will be disclosing a &quot;sample world&quot; under an open content 
+license for the community to kick around and have fun with. But this will 
+have nothing to do with our final game.
+
+&gt;<i>4)  I get this question a lot :-)  Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+</I>&gt;<i>not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+</I>
+We checked out CS of course as well as many others, and while it is a very 
+nice engine, it did not seem to fit our particular needs.
+
+&gt;<i>6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+</I>&gt;<i>internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+</I>
+Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting software, 
+however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And 
+while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile 
+functionnality.
+
+On the game content side though, we are keeping things to ourselves for now.
+Expect to be really, really suprised though... :)
+
+&gt;<i>7)  Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started?  And if
+</I>&gt;<i>so,  why was it deemed necessary to start another,  independant effort with
+</I>&gt;<i>the same goals?
+</I>
+Yes, we knew of WF (actually, since the time it was called Altima !).
+We took some time to consider joining the effort, however we felt there was 
+a number of reasons for not doing so. I'll give you some of them :
+
+- We wanted to keep a tight focus on the game we are doing and did not want 
+to be hindered in political struggles to get the code where we needed. We 
+felt the WF community might ressent us steering in directions that they 
+would not care for. We have a tight schedule : we want the game out in 2002.
+Which means we could'nt spare to much time arguing about it.
+
+- We have different goals : we are a commercial entity. We don't have the 
+educational/hobbyist approach of WF. Nevrax has a complete team of seasoned 
+professionals not only at the programming level, but also on the design / 
+3D artwork / concept side working every day towards one goal : getting the 
+game out.
+
+- We have a highly original world which poses a great number of 
+constraints. We felt we would be in a better position to adress them by 
+leading our own effort.
+
+That said, I must emphasize that we do not see ourselves as &quot;competing&quot; 
+with WF. We are simply two different projects, taking two different 
+approach at building a Free Software system for MMORPGs. Diversity is A 
+Good Thing.
+I wish WF will succeed and I hope there will be as much cooperation between 
+the two projects as possible.
+
+&gt;<i>9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+</I>&gt;<i>free software? :-)
+</I>
+Ah ha ! :)
+
+Free Software doesn't mean free content or free service.
+While our software is Free, we retain property of our game data. And to 
+access our servers in order to play our game, users will be asked to pay a 
+monthly fee just like with the other commercial games.
+
+Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match. 
+And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening 
+our source code.
+
+I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise 
+even more questions !
+
+Thanks for your encouragments,
+
+Olivier
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+    <B>Sal</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:34:56 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Hi Sal,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too
+</I>&gt;<i> much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically
+</I>&gt;<i> oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it
+</I>&gt;<i> would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in
+</I>the
+&gt;<i> FAQ.
+</I>&gt;<i> I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+</I>
+    Thank you for taking the time to respond Olivier, this clears up a lot
+of questions!
+
+&gt;<i> Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially
+</I>&gt;<i> daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+</I>&gt;<i> As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+</I>
+    I very much agree here.  In my experience I've discovered that media is
+very hard to come by.  Talented artists don't like to work for free, and who
+can blame them, a lot of the industry's tools are expensive and take a lot
+of effort and time to learn.  I think this is one of the biggest obstacles
+in free game software development, the lack of good, free media.  If Nevrax
+is able to help out in this area, the opensource commmunity, Worldforge
+included, would be very grateful...
+
+[ ... ]
+&gt;<i> Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting
+</I>software,
+&gt;<i> however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And
+</I>&gt;<i> while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile
+</I>&gt;<i> functionnality.
+</I>[ ... ]
+
+    I understand your intentions.  With openness in development comes
+conflict in views on many issues.  As a project under a tight schedule,
+resolving all issues in the open might not be the most efficient approach
+timewise.
+
+    If there still is any desire to collaborate on things such as client
+engine design, I would be happy to.  If XClient and the Nel client could be
+made more compatible in any way, I think it would be worth the effort.  If
+similairity in protocol could be obtained, then our software could
+communicate with each other.  Likewise, if rendering architecture was
+similair, we could collaborate on, and/or share pieces of code for the game
+engines.  Either way I think it could mean saving work and time for the both
+of us...
+
+    On the other hand, collaborating would logically take some effort, which
+I understand Nevrax may or may not have the time for.  It still might be
+worth considering, at any rate.
+
+&gt;<i> Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match.
+</I>&gt;<i> And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening
+</I>&gt;<i> our source code.
+</I>
+    Here I very much agree, also!
+
+&gt;<i> I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise
+</I>&gt;<i> even more questions !
+</I>
+    Thanks again!  And I await the answers to the other, more technical
+questions. ;-)
+
+- Sal
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000023.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000023.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:37:49 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello sal!
+
+&gt;<i> 3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being
+</I>targeted
+&gt;<i> (high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+</I>
+you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+features
+of the 3d engine (<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html</A>)
+that we plan to develop.
+
+&gt;<i> 5)  What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+</I>
+hum... good question :-) today, the code is not able to do lot of things but
+it'll change in few weeks. the misc component contains lot of really cool
+tools like serializable system, input events system, internationalization,
+math classes, etc...
+there's only the skeleton of the 3d engine but, low level layers start to
+work
+and it'll display polygons in few days :) the low interface font manager is
+ready
+to display text and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+theses
+tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+for the network components, all communication layers are available.
+the service based class is ready too and will be extented in the futur.
+few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+we'll work on a &quot;client&quot; exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+perhaps, display someting :)
+
+&gt;<i> 6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+</I>&gt;<i> internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+</I>
+We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software community.
+
+&gt;<i> 8)  Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will
+</I>use
+&gt;<i> in the following areas:
+</I>
+is the whitepaper not enough? ok , we ll add some stuffs on it :)
+
+&gt;<i>                 - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+</I>
+for now, we only manage TCP/IP and plan to use UDP only the visual effect
+like
+smooth dead reckoning (the standard dead reckoning will be in TCP/IP for
+some
+cheating reasons)
+
+&gt;<i>                 - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+</I>
+we use a generic streamable and serializable system so we don't have any
+file format :-)
+it's a really powerful system!!! and so easy to manage!
+
+&gt;<i>                 - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+</I>&gt;<i> any?)
+</I>
+we use 3ds max only, and we create plugins for our needs.
+
+&gt;<i>                 - Model format(s)
+</I>
+same as mapfile :)
+
+&gt;<i>                 - Texture format(s)
+</I>
+we use .dds format for pre-compressed texture format (DXTC*) and
+pre-computed mimap.
+we also use .tga for normal texture/image :-)
+
+&gt;<i> 9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+</I>&gt;<i> free software? :-)
+</I>
+we are paid, i can confirm :-)
+
+&gt;<i>     Thats about all I have for now.  I'm sure more will come up in the
+</I>&gt;<i> future.  You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+</I>&gt;<i> in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair
+</I>questions.
+
+yes, we'll add these questions in the FAQ!
+
+&gt;<i>     Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+</I>&gt;<i> efforts.  Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working
+</I>towards.
+&gt;<i> I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+</I>
+thanks
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000024.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000024.html
new file mode 100644
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000024.html
@@ -0,0 +1,72 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux build</TITLE>
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux build</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux build">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:05:30 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello, to all !
+Nice to see what all my dreams come true )))
+I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+able to put our hands on it ?
+This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+VC++
+installed ;))
+Wish you good luck
+
+--
+Dim Zager
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a4f22dbd
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html
@@ -0,0 +1,110 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000023.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000026.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+    <B>Sal</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:40:01 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Vianney,  I'm glad to have made acquaintance with the lead programmer
+of this amazing effort!
+
+&gt;<i> Hello sal!
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being
+</I>&gt;<i> targeted
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+</I>&gt;<i> features
+</I>&gt;<i> of the 3d engine (<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html</A>)
+</I>&gt;<i> that we plan to develop.
+</I>
+    Thanks for your time in answering my questions.  I took the time the
+other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code.  I
+must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an early
+stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+
+&gt;<i> few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+</I>&gt;<i> we'll work on a &quot;client&quot; exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+</I>&gt;<i> perhaps, display someting :)
+</I>
+    A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+this neat stuff!  This would logically be needed for testing and developing
+new features, also.
+
+    Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it seems
+to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress?   ( I have
+nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might be
+of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+
+&gt;<i> [...] and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+</I>&gt;<i> theses
+</I>&gt;<i> tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+</I>
+    This raises a question I've been pondering myself.  I've also recently
+created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated characters
+from character studio.  Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it?  I wasn't
+able to resolve this from the documention included.  I know that the sdk
+itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+o.k...
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; 6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software
+</I>community.
+
+    Thats great to hear.  I (and I'm sure many others) would like to see
+this operation become a success, and would like to help it do so.  As is
+evident with the existance of projects like Worldforge, one can see that a
+GPLish mmorpg system is very desired by many people.  I also think it would
+be cool if Nevrax showed the world that Free Software works, even in the
+commercial market... and maybe help encourage other companies to do the same
+in the future.
+
+Thanks again for the info!
+- Sal
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000026.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000026.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c330ea8e
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@@ -0,0 +1,106 @@
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] my last email :)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000025.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000027.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:11:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#26">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello all,
+
+&gt;<i>     Thanks for your time in answering my questions.  I took the time the
+</I>&gt;<i> other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code.  I
+</I>&gt;<i> must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+</I>&gt;<i> And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an
+</I>early
+&gt;<i> stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+</I>
+Thanks a lot :) We hope to continue in this way!
+
+&gt;<i>     A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+</I>&gt;<i> this neat stuff!  This would logically be needed for testing and
+</I>developing
+&gt;<i> new features, also.
+</I>
+In a first time, this client will do nothing else than init the nel lib and
+perhaps
+display a text and a triangle :) be patient!
+
+&gt;<i>     Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it
+</I>seems
+&gt;<i> to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+</I>&gt;<i> Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+</I>&gt;<i> theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+</I>&gt;<i> rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress?   ( I
+</I>have
+&gt;<i> nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might
+</I>be
+&gt;<i> of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+</I>
+Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+things that
+the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+should wait the
+end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+
+&gt;<i>     This raises a question I've been pondering myself.  I've also recently
+</I>&gt;<i> created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated
+</I>characters
+&gt;<i> from character studio.  Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+</I>&gt;<i> these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it?  I wasn't
+</I>&gt;<i> able to resolve this from the documention included.  I know that the sdk
+</I>&gt;<i> itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+</I>&gt;<i> o.k...
+</I>
+I'm not able to answer, perhaps our 3d code lead could answer this.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000027.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000027.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..314aebae
--- /dev/null
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] my last email :)</TITLE>
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:36:31 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Best regards,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i> ---
+</I>&gt;<i> lead programmer / nevrax.com
+</I>&gt;<i> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+</I>
+At least we know the name of game itself :))
+&gt;<i>From Vianney's home page - Ryzom game for Nevrax
+</I>www.ryzom.com - very similar to www.transmeta.com in early days (but without
+hidden msg )))
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..507fbc84
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux build</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000024.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000029.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux build</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux build">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:51:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#28">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Dim,
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+</I>&gt;<i> anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+</I>&gt;<i> able to put our hands on it ?
+</I>
+Soon ... ;-)
+
+You should be able to get Nel to compile on Linux in the following days.
+
+
+&gt;<i> This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+</I>&gt;<i> afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+</I>&gt;<i> internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+</I>&gt;<i> VC++ installed ;))
+</I>
+I see very well what you mean ... :-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> Wish you good luck
+</I>
+Thanks a lot.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d12aef71
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Flexibility</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000028.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000031.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:59:58 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#29">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#29">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#29">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi
+
+I'm wondering how general the nel library will be. Will it be a *MMORPG*
+engine or will it be more general so i can e.g. make a Massive Multiplay
+Online Real Time Stragegy game(MMORTS =)?
+Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+
+/David
+
+PS.
+I just found out that Vianney was in the Outcast team! How cool isnt
+that?
+DS.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2adc1804
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] my last email :)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000044.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000020.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:05:08 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#30">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#30">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+</I>&gt;<i> things that
+</I>&gt;<i> the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+</I>&gt;<i> You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+</I>&gt;<i> should wait the
+</I>&gt;<i> end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+</I>
+Have you put this list online?
+It would be nice to get some orders so I could start contributing =)
+
+/David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#30">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ca099c02
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html
@@ -0,0 +1,75 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Flexibility</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ludovic.lievre%40chaman.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000029.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000032.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+    <B>Ludovic LIEVRE</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ludovic.lievre%40chaman.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">ludovic.lievre@chaman.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:10:49 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#31">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+&lt;SNIP&gt;
+
+&gt;<i> Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+</I>
+A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+french company where I'm currently working.
+The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+released in 2001.
+Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+
+Ludo
+
+--
+Ludovic LIEVRE
+Chaman Productions
+mailto:<A HREF="mailto:ludo@chaman.net">ludo@chaman.net</A>
+
+&quot;Give me a museum and I'll fill it.&quot;
+Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000032.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000032.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..34ad93ed
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000032.html
@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Flexibility</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000031.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000033.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+    <B>sameh chafik Pro</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:33:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#32">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>It smell shark!
+you don't feel the same smell?
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: &quot;Ludovic LIEVRE&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:ludovic.lievre@chaman.net">ludovic.lievre@chaman.net</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 5:10 PM
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Flexibility
+
+
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &lt;SNIP&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+</I>&gt;<i> french company where I'm currently working.
+</I>&gt;<i> The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+</I>&gt;<i> released in 2001.
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Ludo
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Ludovic LIEVRE
+</I>&gt;<i> Chaman Productions
+</I>&gt;<i> mailto:<A HREF="mailto:ludo@chaman.net">ludo@chaman.net</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;Give me a museum and I'll fill it.&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000033.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000033.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..532b50da
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000033.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Flexibility</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000032.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000034.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:26:49 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#33">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+</I>&gt;<i> french company where I'm currently working.
+</I>&gt;<i> The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+</I>&gt;<i> released in 2001.
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+</I>
+Please, please, please, please could you get me into the beta test =)
+I'd relly appriciate it.
+
+/David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a32a3293
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Flexibility (oops)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000033.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000040.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility (oops)">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:14 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#34">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#34">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+</I>&gt;<i> french company where I'm currently working.
+</I>&gt;<i> The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+</I>&gt;<i> released in 2001.
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+</I>
+I didnt find that beta test joining page at first. =/
+Ignore my pathetic begging. ;)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0707a141
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] my last email :)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000027.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000036.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:43:16 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#35">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; Best regards,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; ---
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; lead programmer / nevrax.com
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> At least we know the name of game itself :))
+</I>
+He he ... :))
+I wouldn't insist on revealing  name of the game. I'm respecting
+commercial nature of this project. Without it NeL wasn't be born at all
+of was not available under GPL
+Hope, I didn't destroy you plans too mach ... ))
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000036.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000036.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ab0498ec
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000036.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000035.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000037.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:34:09 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#36">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Ok, after browsing game projects which mentioned on
+<A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> I come to conclusion
+what your new game will be really MASSIVELY multi-user with _very_
+detailed world(s) running in your
+universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+street (or any other type of portal, analog of &lt;a href&gt; in HTML)
+he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+I think what mechanism of linking between different worlds similar to
+WWW will be a good starting point for
+creating Internet2 (why not ? ;))
+What's about starting RFC  for WCP (World Communicating Protocol) ?
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000037.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000037.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c0149090
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000037.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:dan%40isvara.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000036.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000038.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</H1>
+    <B>Dan Ellis</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dan%40isvara.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">dan@isvara.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:52:01 +0000 (GMT)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+</I>&gt;<i> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+</I>&gt;<i> for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+</I>&gt;<i> street (or any other type of portal, analog of &lt;a href&gt; in HTML)
+</I>&gt;<i> he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+</I>&gt;<i> hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+</I>&gt;<i> portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+</I>&gt;<i> nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+</I>
+This is something the Afterscape Project will allow. It will be a very
+distributed universe that will allow delegation of zones to other servers.
+
+-- 
+Dan Ellis &lt;<A HREF="mailto:dan@isvara.net">dan@isvara.net</A>&gt;
+
+
+</pre>
+
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+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:20:26 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:34:09PM +0100, Dim Segebart wrote:
+&gt;<i> [...] So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+</I>&gt;<i> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+</I>
+This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+too, although that seemed less important...=20
+
+But definitly that could be a good idea to implement now ;-)
+
+
+	Shaman
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |    =20
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoSVVoACgkQGBtCB6PQIcvBigCgxq5rFlp3v+hdSzp3pw+nFgWF
+LZ0AoJOg37O2L9uTxXISsGf+E8XsZIn+
+=RzT/
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9--
+
+
+</pre>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:27:27 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>According to Thierry Mallard:
+&gt;<i> This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+</I>&gt;<i> not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+</I>&gt;<i> were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+</I>&gt;<i> have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+</I>&gt;<i> can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+</I>&gt;<i> too, although that seemed less important... 
+</I>
+In a very different world (and a closed system implementation), it's also
+something Bioware's NeverWinterNights wants to achieve. Their model allows
+servers (what they call modules, which is in fact a process running a
+specific area - but you can have multiples instances concurrently running
+on the same CPU) to link to each other.
+
+Of course, their model is simpler: all servers are guaranteed to run the
+same software (it autoupdates over the Internet), the character formats are
+well defined, and the characters are ultimately stored on a central database
+(the NWN Vault) who enforces &quot;plausibility&quot; on the characters (a level 1
+cannot get to level 6 and 70,000 XP points in an hour of playtime; a level 3
+character cannot have a plate+2, a cloak of displacement and boots of speed,
+and so on).
+
+And they do not want to inforce any universe continuity: each server admin
+has to do it, by allowing other modules to link to yours or not.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:12:16 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>One thing from previous questions that wasn't much developped upon.
+
+Networking.
+
+The original question was &quot;do you use TCP or UDP for networking&quot;. My
+initial impulse was to reply &quot;we use RDP, of course&quot; (for those who do not
+know what RDP is, check /etc/protocols, number 27). But alas, Vianney beat
+me to the answer, so I have to be truthful.
+
+The question is: what do you use networking for, and why does the question
+on the use of TCP vs the use of UDP arises?
+
+Because, in most protocols design, this question never arises: one is clearly
+superior to the other. Why is that the question stands for a MMOG?
+
+If you look at the information elements that have to be transmitted from a
+client to the server and back, you see that they can be somehow separated
+across two different categories:
+
+1) Long-lived elements of information
+and
+2) Short-lived elements of information
+
+You may also separate on a different axis
+
+1) Uncorrectable elements of information
+and
+2) Correctable elements of information
+
+Uncorrectable elements of information are elements whose omission render the
+game state incompatible between client and server and require the transmission
+of said element, while correctable information can be overriden by a different
+game element.
+
+A few examples:
+
+- NPC X is dead: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+- critter C has N hp: this is a long-lived/correctable element
+- critter C is at X/Y/Z facing direction D: this is short-lived/correctable
+- I am casting spell C: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+
+Note that I can't find an example of short-lived, yet uncorrectable element.
+Any ideas?
+
+What do you face here? You face very different information elements. Some
+MUST be there for the world to make sense. So you have to guarantee their
+transmission: TCP makes sense. On the other hand, you have some that are
+quickly obsolete, and do not matter when lost. For them the whole TCP
+retransmission/guarantee of delivery is useless and a waste of ressources.
+
+So how do you design your protocol. You can take the short, easy route:
+use TCP (and lose performance for your position updates - which are by far
+the most numerous elements you get). You can take the long, hard route:
+use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+
+Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides you
+the service guarantee you need).
+
+One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows you to
+bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP protocol
+path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+compatible with TCP streaming).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+    <B>Sal</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:32:09 -0500</I>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> You can take the long, hard route:
+</I>&gt;<i> use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+</I>&gt;<i> transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+</I>
+    I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage two
+sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP.  Also the important
+data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text.  Most data in a networked
+game is usually skippable.   I think this is why most games use simple UDP,
+because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little data
+that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+o.k.   The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+
+&gt;<i> Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+</I>&gt;<i> the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+</I>&gt;<i> them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides
+</I>you
+&gt;<i> the service guarantee you need).
+</I>
+    This is one possible route... not a bad one either.  There would not be
+any sort of performance loss in comparison to a pure-UDP implementation,
+since the operating system's TCP/IP implementation is probably more
+efficient than the custom UDP one.
+
+    I guess its a matter of preference, of the developers are willing to
+code something that manages two sets of sockets int the clients and servers,
+then go for it :-)
+
+&gt;<i> One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows
+</I>you to
+&gt;<i> bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP
+</I>protocol
+&gt;<i> path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+</I>&gt;<i> way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+</I>&gt;<i> compatible with TCP streaming).
+</I>
+    This is true.  Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP so,
+the genre of people who would play a MMOG would probably have dealt with the
+firewall issues before, and would expect to fix their config to accomodate a
+new game.  Of course thats a slight generalization...
+
+Just adding some more food to the bowl ;-)
+-Sal
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Problems ?</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Problems ?">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:12:02 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>What's wrong with this list ?
+I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+(((
+And also no posts from other members.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:56:10 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>Hello,
+
+&gt;<i>     I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage
+</I>two
+&gt;<i> sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP.  Also the important
+</I>&gt;<i> data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+</I>&gt;<i> when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text.  Most data in a
+</I>networked
+&gt;<i> game is usually skippable.   I think this is why most games use simple
+</I>UDP,
+&gt;<i> because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little
+</I>data
+&gt;<i> that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+</I>&gt;<i> o.k.   The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+</I>&gt;<i> data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+</I>&gt;<i> of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+</I>&gt;<i> MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+</I>
+
+Oh really? I have not the same opinion. I think that 90% of information on a
+game
+are important and must be received if you don't want to have inconsistency
+in the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+receive
+&quot;you lost 5 hp&quot; message before &quot;you are attacked by XXX&quot;, it should be
+totally
+weird. I think that messages, in a role game, must be sorted and reliable
+for
+consistency and logical events.
+
+&gt;<i>     This is true.  Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP
+</I>so,
+
+be careful, there more than 1 category of network game. there are MMOG and
+counter strike like game (with few tens of players). for the second one udp
+is a
+surely useful but for MMOG, I'm not sure that the most of them are in UDP
+only.
+
+-vl
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Problems ?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Problems ?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:27:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Dim Segebart:
+&gt;<i> What's wrong with this list ?
+</I>&gt;<i> I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+</I>&gt;<i> (((
+</I>&gt;<i> And also no posts from other members.
+</I>
+That's a not a particularly weird one, because you're not listed as
+a member of the list. I've looked at the logs, and didn't find a record
+of your subscription confirmation.
+
+Please note that mailman doesn't let &quot;third party subscriptions&quot; for you;
+when you subscribe from the on-line form, mailman sends a message to the
+subscribed address asking for a confirmation, to avoid the syndrome of
+&quot;let's register Mr X to 10,000 lists to flood his mailbox&quot; (and the less
+bothersome 'let's put in a wrong and mispelled address'). Until you have
+properly replied to that confirmation message (keep the subject, and cut all
+the body), you will NOT receive messages from the list.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:23:03 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:56:10AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+&gt;<i> [ Networking ]
+</I>&gt;<i> I think that 90% of information on a game are important and must be recei=
+</I>ved
+&gt;<i> if you don't want to have inconsistency in
+</I>&gt;<i> the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+</I>&gt;<i> receive
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;you lost 5 hp&quot; message before &quot;you are attacked by XXX&quot;,=20
+</I>
+Just two little remarks here :
+
+1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+   &quot;you now have 37 HP&quot; more than &quot;you lost 5 HP&quot; : one is skippable, the o=
+ther
+   is not.=20
+
+2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But =
+if
+that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+
+
+	Shaman,=20
+	[ still learning to write english ... ;-) ]
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |    =20
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoWPGcACgkQGBtCB6PQIctC4wCdHeXHaiWu8TqEpUsryl+D/wH2
+Ha8An3O5buwRHRsPEP2lr5PL1Nc2lDEu
+=xo0+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000046.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000046.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</H1>
+    <B>Tom wright</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thomas.wright1%40ntlworld.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?">thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:14:11 -0000</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all,
+
+I am quite interested in what your trying to do, having played about =
+with the ideas for one of these for more years than I care to think =
+about :-)
+
+I have some general questions I would like to ask who ever is in the =
+know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones :-)
+
+1)  Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build  the stuff ? I am =
+currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to =
+try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your =
+environment and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include =
+is missing.
+It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies =
+that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in =
+there :-)  But it will save you answering the same question lots of time =
+for those that don't look at the src
+
+2) Care to release at least a rough schedule on the website, so that =
+people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are going to be =
+released ?
+
+3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading =
+and learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+playing with it a few months ago, it has alot going for it.  Are you =
+going to embed it and interface it to the API's available so that people =
+can use it for developement within the system, or is it more an external =
+glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+5) In your event dispatch system, how do you intent to get around the =
+problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having seen this problem =
+in other systems that rely on events for inter-object comms, I am =
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.
+
+Congrats on embrassing the open source idea for your server, and I look =
+forward to messing around with the system and the source.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hi all,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I am quite interested in what your =
+trying to do,=20
+having played about with the ideas for one of these for more years than =
+I care=20
+to think about :-)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I have some general questions I would =
+like to ask=20
+who ever is in the know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones=20
+:<i>-)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+</I>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;1)&amp;nbsp; Are you going to add to the =
+FAQ how to=20
+build&amp;nbsp; the stuff ? I am currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( =
+though I have=20
+a linux box also to try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths =
+coded=20
+to your environment and not within the project file, e.g. =
+whatever\nel\include=20
+is missing.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;It would be useful in the FAQ if it =
+contained a=20
+list of any dependencies that the system also requires like the STL =
+code. Yeah I=20
+know its in there :-)&amp;nbsp; But it will save you answering the same =
+question=20
+lots of time for those that don't look at the src&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;2) Care to release at least a rough =
+schedule on the=20
+website, so that people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are =
+going to=20
+be released ?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;3) Congrats on releasing the src early, =
+that means=20
+we can start reading and learning now before we have 1000's of files to =
+wade=20
+through.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;4) very interested to see talking about =
+using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot =
+going for=20
+it.&amp;nbsp; Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+available so=20
+that people can use it for developement within the system, or is it more =
+an=20
+external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI =
+and NPC=20
+routines&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;5) In your event dispatch system, how =
+do you intent=20
+to get around the problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having =
+seen=20
+this problem in other systems that rely on events for inter-object =
+comms, I am=20
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded=20
+round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Congrats on embrassing the open source =
+idea for=20
+your server, and&amp;nbsp;I look forward to messing around with the system =
+and the=20
+source.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Regards&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000047.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000047.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</H1>
+    <B>sameh chafik Pro</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:59:53 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&gt;<i> 4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+</I>playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+&gt;<i> going for it.  Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+</I>available so that people can use it for=20
+&gt;<i> developement within the system, or is it more an external glue =
+</I>language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping &gt; AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+Hello,=20
+I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with Pierre =
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all class that we write but because we design a multi agents =
+system, we decideded to write an script interpret for our agents =
+platform. That dicision become because in open-source platform we did'nt =
+find an embed language for prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for =
+doing that.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4134.600&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; 4) very interested to see talking =
+about using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; going for it.&amp;nbsp; Are you going =
+to embed it=20
+and interface it to the API's available so that people can use it for=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; developement within the system, or =
+is it more=20
+an external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping =
+&amp;gt;<i> AI=20
+</I>and NPC routines&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Hello, &lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with =
+Pierre=20
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all=20
+class that&amp;nbsp;we write but because we design a multi agents system, we =
+
+decideded to write an script interpret for our agents platform. That =
+dicision=20
+become because in open-source platform we did'nt find an =
+embed&amp;nbsp;language for=20
+prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for doing that.&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+              <a href="author.html#47">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000048.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000048.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ec552de9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000048.html
@@ -0,0 +1,69 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000047.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000052.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:12:40 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#48">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>1)  Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build  the stuff ? I am
+</I>currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to try
+this out &gt;on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your environment
+and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include is missing.
+&gt;<i>It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies
+</I>that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in there
+:<i>-)  But it &gt;will save you answering the same question lots of time for
+</I>those that don't look at the src
+
+I'm working on the Visual C++ INSTALL file that explains everything you have
+to do to install and compile our project. It should be available in few
+days. (The unix one should come too in few days). But we don't plan to add
+it in the faq, we'll put it in the root directory.
+
+&gt;<i>3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading and
+</I>learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+Thanks
+
+-Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000049.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000049.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..14e242db
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000049.html
@@ -0,0 +1,92 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000045.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000046.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:03:35 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#49">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Thierry Mallard:
+&gt;<i> Just two little remarks here :
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+</I>&gt;<i>    &quot;you now have 37 HP&quot; more than &quot;you lost 5 HP&quot; : one is skippable, the other
+</I>&gt;<i>    is not. 
+</I>
+As a general rule, change of state messages are always what I termed
+uncorrectable elements, while state information is, by definition,
+correctable (because you can resend the same state information at any
+time, &quot;correcting&quot; the error).
+
+Now, some information can be expressed in terms of either state or change
+of state. The choice of the type of communication between server and client
+must be individually chosen for most.
+
+An important point to keep in mind is that, for most state information
+which we deliver thru UDP, you are perfectly allowed to lose some
+information (since you expect it will be corrected in the near future),
+but for any specific state, you must guarantee that at least some of the
+updates are delivered properly.
+
+A good example is the &quot;HP update&quot; above. You may send &quot;X now has 37 HP&quot;
+&quot;X now has 33 HP&quot;, &quot;X now has 30 HP&quot;, but at some point, you need to ensure
+that the client (since we assume that the server is the one giving the state
+update) gets at least one update. So, most of these updates would be sent
+using UDP, but one out of N has to be sent using TCP to ensure guaranteed
+delivery (or, more typically, one every N seconds).
+
+&gt;<i> 2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+</I>&gt;<i> network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+</I>&gt;<i> between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But if
+</I>&gt;<i> that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+</I>
+If you use two streams, you also need to guarantee an order between both.
+It wouldn't do to receive &quot;X has 35 HP&quot; thru TCP and &quot;X has 38 HP&quot; thru UDP.
+So all state update messages also need to carry out a timestamp so that,
+when your client parses the &quot;X has 35 HP&quot; message because your network stack
+delivered this first, he'll be able to ignore the &quot;X has 38 HP&quot; one which is
+now obsolete.
+
+Oh, and I do agree. Using pure TCP frees you from the hassles of dealing
+with all that... but you relinquish a lot of control of the lag, since you
+cannot control how and when the information is retransmitted.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e9862820
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html
@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:roybryant%40SEVENtwentyfour.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000053.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000051.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</H1>
+    <B>Roy Bryant</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:roybryant%40SEVENtwentyfour.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org">roybryant@SEVENtwentyfour.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:09:37 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#50">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#50">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#50">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+
+    On your page <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/</A>
+    when you click on your link to
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html</A>
+    you get the error: Not found
+
+As recommended by the Robot Guidelines, this email is to explain our robot's
+activities and to let you know about one of the broken links we encountered.
+LinkWalker does not store or publish the content of your pages, but rather
+uses the link information to update our map of the World Wide Web.
+
+Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+
+Roy Bryant
+
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+ Roy Bryant, <A HREF="mailto:roybryant@seventwentyfour.com">roybryant@seventwentyfour.com</A>
+ President
+ SEVENtwentyfour Inc. (&quot;Always watching the Web&quot;)
+ <A HREF="http://www.seventwentyfour.com">http://www.seventwentyfour.com</A>
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3fd1c76d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html
@@ -0,0 +1,77 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000050.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000054.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:18:40 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#51">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#51">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#51">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#51">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Roy Bryant:
+&gt;<i> There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>     On your page <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>     when you click on your link to
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>     you get the error: Not found
+</I>
+Well, there are no october archives, since these archives held only
+messages of the form &quot;ok, ping, 1-2-3, anyone hear me?&quot; and &quot;do I
+receive this?&quot;.
+
+I tried to remove all traces of the october activity, but Mailman seem
+to have resurrected the links, even if the files themselves are not there,
+nor any information to recreate them.
+
+Mailman is, well, &quot;lacking&quot; (to put it nicely) in the documentation and
+man area.
+
+&gt;<i> Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+</I>&gt;<i> receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+</I>
+Most of these really are errors. That specific one is &quot;known&quot;, and I
+have yet to figure how to remove it - Mailman recreates the link when
+a new message is received.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..806025f7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html
@@ -0,0 +1,89 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some questions about network implementation</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000048.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000053.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some questions about network implementation">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:12:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#52">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello !
+Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+(<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/</A>)
+It's based on Netscape Portable Runtime library (NSPR)
+and amed on creating high perfomance network applications.
+Look at documentation
+(<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html</A>)
+&gt;<i>From documentation:
+</I>
+It is contained in 8 source files as opposed to more than 400, but
+provides all the
+functionality that is needed to write efficient IAs on UNIX-like
+platforms.
+
+                     NSPR       State Threads
+ Lines of code     ~150,000      ~3000
+
+ Dynamic library size
+(debug version)
+ IRIX               ~700 KB   ~60 KB
+ Linux             ~900 KB  ~70 KB
+
+State Threads is an application library which provides a foundation for
+writing Internet Applications. To summarize, it has the following
+advantages:
+
+     It allows the design of fast and highly scalable applications. An
+application will scale well with both load and number of CPUs.
+     It greatly simplifies application programming and debugging
+because, as a rule, no mutual exclusion locking is necessary and the
+entire application is free to use static variables and non-reentrant
+library functions.
+
+The library's main limitation:
+     All I/O operations on sockets must use the State Thread library's
+I/O functions because only those functions perform thread scheduling and
+prevent the application's
+     processes from blocking.
+
+
+I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+according to the above document ?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7dad9869
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some questions about network implementation</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cado%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000052.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000050.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Cado</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cado%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some questions about network implementation">cado@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:54:34 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#53">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="subject.html#53">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#53">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello everybody !
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+&gt;<i> Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+</I>&gt;<i> (<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/</A>)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+</I>&gt;<i> according to the above document ?
+</I>
+During the pre-production we studied various libraries, from the
+smallest to the biggest (such as ACE,
+<A HREF="http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html">http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html</A> ). We didn't find the one of
+our dreams :-)
+
+At the moment we have implemented a simple networking system to work
+with our prototype that is coming soon.
+
+Thank you for your suggestion. We will study this library in detail.
+
+Regards,
+Olivier
+-- 
+Olivier Cado    ICQ: 67756413
+NEVRAX France   <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.com">http://www.nevrax.com</A> - <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a7f281ed
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000051.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000060.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:19:35 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#54">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+The Nevrax team is please to announce, that there is some improvement on
+the GNU/Linux compilation :-)
+
+Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+
+There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+
+That's the first time that i'm playing around with automake / autoconf so
+you migth find (and you will) some ugly things. Be nice with us ... any
+suggestion will be welcome :-)
+
+
+Have fun and a nice week-end ...
+
+
+The Nevrax team.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4274065b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html
@@ -0,0 +1,54 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] error in CVS?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000063.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000056.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] error in CVS?</H1>
+    <B>Stefan Nilsen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] error in CVS?">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:18:06 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#55">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks 
+lika a damaged CVS repository.
+
+cvs [server aborted]: unable to parse 
+/home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v; `state' not in the expected 
+place
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ea4c3e9d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] error in CVS?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000055.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000057.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] error in CVS?</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] error in CVS?">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:16:05 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#56">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+&gt;<i> I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks 
+</I>&gt;<i> lika a damaged CVS repository.
+</I>&gt;<i>  [...]
+</I>
+Ouch ... sorry.
+
+It's fixed.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d4a2708f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html
@@ -0,0 +1,86 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000056.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000062.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</H1>
+    <B>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>28 Nov 2000 11:04:18 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#57">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all nelers,
+
+Issue:
+
+ With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+ rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+ unset include path.
+
+Solution:
+
+ Use c++ as the default compiler for TRY_COMPILE macros.
+
+Path:
+
+--- configure.in.old    Tue Nov 28 10:22:18 2000
++++ configure.in        Tue Nov 28 10:50:10 2000
+@@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
+ dnl Checks for programs.
+ 
+ AC_PROG_MAKE_SET
++AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS
+ 
+ AC_PROG_CC
+ AC_PROG_CXX
+
+
+Comment:
+
+ With this patch, configures works properly. And compilation worked
+ until my quota was full. ;)
+
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..54cc9a00
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] CVS checkin by email</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000062.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] CVS checkin by email</H1>
+    <B>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] CVS checkin by email">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>28 Nov 2000 11:05:27 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all,
+
+Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7bc405b0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html
@@ -0,0 +1,75 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] CVS checkin by email</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000058.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000064.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] CVS checkin by email</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] CVS checkin by email">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:50:58 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to David Mentré:
+&gt;<i> Hi all,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+</I>
+Well, if you want to be spammed continuously, that might be possible.
+I'll put something in the crontab to notify you every day :)
+
+Realistically, since you get full access to the development CVS tree,
+there is something done about every day in one part or another of the
+library. We do not have anything like the cvsup of FreeBSD so that you
+automatically would fetch the latest version everytime, but you can
+set a cron job if you like to to a cvs update every day around 23:00
+GMT. That's when we do a full resynchronise of the various CVS mirrors
+(in practice, the sync starts at 22:00 GMT, but you never know how long
+rsync will take across the 3 machines involved).
+
+We will post announces when there is something relatively major commited
+(like the day you'll get your first pictures, or like we did when the
+ compilation stuff on Linux boxes started working). Usually, we also do
+a manual resync at that time.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..668fe9b8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000054.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000061.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+    <B>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>28 Nov 2000 12:35:20 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Valignat Cedric &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt; writes:
+
+&gt;<i> Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+</I>&gt;<i> instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+</I>
+Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+machine. 
+
+&gt;<i> There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+</I>
+Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+megs of nel library. :)
+
+BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..40a9555f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000060.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000063.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:29:03 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#61">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to David Mentré:
+&gt;<i> BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+</I>&gt;<i> order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+</I>
+Well, yes and no. We'd like to keep the three (or at least two, NeL plus
+the client/server) separate or semi-separate entities, so that you can
+entirely replace client and server while keeping NeL.
+
+At some time, there will probably be an overall configure script, but that
+one will merely check the various parts, then call the 3 sub-directories
+configures with its what it just found.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ff25edec
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000057.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000058.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:40:05 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#62">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#62">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi David,
+
+David Mentré wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Issue:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+</I>&gt;<i>  rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+</I>&gt;<i>  unset include path.
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+
+We just made the changes in CVS.
+
+Thanks for your help ... :-)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f1ad36aa
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000061.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000055.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:02:58 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#63">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>David Mentré wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+</I>&gt;<i> machine. 
+</I>
+Cool ... :-)
+
+&gt;<i> Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+</I>&gt;<i> with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+</I>&gt;<i> megs of nel library. :)
+</I>
+hehe :-)
+
+At the moment, there is nothing really usable for the client, and the
+GNU/linux OpenGL driver has to be written ...
+
+For the server part, we have few things running and the GNU/Linux configure
+setup will be done soon ...
+
+So be patient ... :-)
+
+
+Bye.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7a4937d5
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] pointers on documentation?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000059.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] pointers on documentation?</H1>
+    <B>David Mentre</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] pointers on documentation?">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>29 Nov 2000 12:55:21 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#64">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#64">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all,
+
+I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as &quot;Traversers&quot;, or what
+is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+
+Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+
+For the nel guys, is there any &quot;Global Architecture Overview&quot; paper
+planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+read a paper describing a typical interaction: &quot;you setup object like
+this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+need at least this and that...&quot;. It needs not to be very precise, but
+fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+
+Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+priority list. ;)
+
+Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+we could write an architecture description paper.
+
+
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000065.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000065.html
new file mode 100644
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000064.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000066.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:16:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#65">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#65">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#65">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#65">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+</I>&gt;<i> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+you can look at this book : 3D Game Engine Design
+by David H. Eberly
+or at this website : <A HREF="http://www.flipcode.com/">http://www.flipcode.com/</A>
+
+&gt;<i> For the nel guys, is there any &quot;Global Architecture Overview&quot; paper
+</I>&gt;<i> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+</I>&gt;<i> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+</I>&gt;<i> read a paper describing a typical interaction: &quot;you setup object like
+</I>&gt;<i> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+</I>&gt;<i> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+</I>&gt;<i> need at least this and that...&quot;. It needs not to be very precise, but
+</I>&gt;<i> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+</I>&gt;<i> priority list. ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+</I>&gt;<i> we could write an architecture description paper.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> d.
+</I>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000066.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000066.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a96a180c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000066.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Distributed server algo</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000065.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000069.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:38:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#66">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#66">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#66">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#66">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+What algo will you be using?
+Will each server handle a specific cube in object space?
+
+I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is 
+possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+
+Regards,
+David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#66">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0bc5e9a7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html
@@ -0,0 +1,106 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] pointers on documentation?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000073.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000068.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] pointers on documentation?</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] pointers on documentation?">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:02:21 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#67">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#67">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#67">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#67">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi David,
+
+We have started a kind of &quot;NeL Programmer Guide&quot;. You can acces it from
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html</A> We have some topics there,
+but nothing about MOT (Model Observer Traversal) yet. The guide grow up with
+the
+code so stay tuned!
+
+For information, MOT is inspired by Java 3d architecture.
+
+Bye.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;David Mentre&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:55 PM
+Subject: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hi all,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+</I>&gt;<i> areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as &quot;Traversers&quot;, or what
+</I>&gt;<i> is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+</I>&gt;<i> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> For the nel guys, is there any &quot;Global Architecture Overview&quot; paper
+</I>&gt;<i> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+</I>&gt;<i> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+</I>&gt;<i> read a paper describing a typical interaction: &quot;you setup object like
+</I>&gt;<i> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+</I>&gt;<i> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+</I>&gt;<i> need at least this and that...&quot;. It needs not to be very precise, but
+</I>&gt;<i> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+</I>&gt;<i> priority list. ;)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+</I>&gt;<i> we could write an architecture description paper.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> d.
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i>  <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>  Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#67">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000068.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000068.html
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+	//fake

+	</script>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+<table width="780" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="red">

+<tr><td align="left" width="100%" bgcolor="#0066ff" height="24">

+<script language="javascript" src="menu.js"></script>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+<table CLASS="main" border="0" width="780" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">

+<tr><td valign="top" CLASS="leftmenu" width="138">

+<table width="100%" border="0" cellpandding="0" cellspacing="0">

+<tr height="5"><td></td></tr>

+<tr><td align="center">

+<table border="0" cellspacing="3" cellpandding="0" bgcolor="#bbffbb" width="120">

+<tr><td align="center"><font style="font-size: 11pt" color="#000099">¤À Ãþ ·s »D</font></td></tr>

+</table>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td align="center">

+<table bgcolor="#eeffee" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpandding="0" width="120">

+<tr>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_1_3.htm" />

+®É¨Æ

+</td>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_3_3.htm" />

+°]¸g

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_8_3.htm" />

+®T¼Ö

+</td>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_2_3.htm" />

+ªÀ·|

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_5_3.htm" />

+Åé¨|

+</td>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_9_3.htm" />

+¸ê°T

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_6_3.htm" />

+ÃÀ¤å

+</td>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_4_3.htm" />

+¥Á¥Í

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_7_3.htm" />

+ºî¦X

+</td>

+<td CLASS="newssubject" align="center">

+<a CLASS="leftmenu" HREF="/news/headlines/newsgroup_11_3.htm" />

+°ê»Ú

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</td></tr>

+<tr>

+<td align="center">

+<table width="100">

+<tr><td align="center">

+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/ad_server/adbase.asp?c=1&amp;b=1&amp;f=1&amp;n=2&amp;h=10">

+

+					//fake

+					</script>

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr><td align="center">

+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/ad_server/adbase.asp?c=1&amp;b=1&amp;f=0&amp;i=5&amp;h=10">

+

+					//fake

+					</script>

+</td></tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+<td width="1" bgcolor="#ccccff"></td>

+<td valign="top" CLASS="newsborder" width="641" height="100%">

+<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpandding="0" bgcolor="#ccccff" width="641" height="35">

+<tr>

+<td nowrap="true"><img align="absmiddle" src="/himages/news10.gif

+					      " />

+<font style="font-size:11pt; color=#000099">¡i°]¸g

+·s»D¡j</font></td>

+<td width="20"><img src="/himages/transparent.gif" /></td>

+<td nowrap="true"><font style="font-size:9pt;">¡m§K¶O­q¾\¹q¤l³ø¡n¿é¤J±zªºE-Mail</font></td>

+<td>

+<form name="newsletter" action="http://www.epaper.com.tw/adm/register.htm#last_0027" method="post" LANGUAGE="javascript" onsubmit="return newsletter_onsubmit()">

+<td><input type="text" name="s_mail" size="9" /></td><td><input TYPE="image" NAME="sub" SRC="/himages/sub_g1.gif" ALIGN="absmiddle" BORDER="0" /></td>

+<td width="20"><img src="/himages/transparent.gif" /></td>

+</form></td>

+<td nowrap="true"><font style="font-size:9pt;">

+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/curtime.asp">

+</script>

+<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">

+<!--

+								curTime_Nocolor()

+							  

+							  

+-->

+</SCRIPT>

+</font></td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpandding="0" bgcolor="#ccccff" width="641"><tr><td></td></tr></table>

+<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpandding="0" width="641" height="5"><tr><td></td></tr></table>

+<table width="100%" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">

+<tr>

+<td NAME="left_tdbg" id="left_tdbg" valign="top" height="540" width="461" background="/himages/transparent.gif" style="background-position: 100% 100% ; background-repeat:no-repeat">

+<table border="0" width="100%" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">

+<tr><td align="center" valign="top">

+<table CLASS="newscontent" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpandding="0">

+<tr><td width="100%">

+<table width="100%">

+<tr><td valign="top">

+<table CLASS="abstract_area">

+<tr>

+<td align="center"><br />

+<font style="font-size:15pt;color:#cc0000"><b>

+¤¸¤j¨ÊµØ±á°T¡GÄ­ÆC¤Ï¼u

+</b>

+</font>

+(2001/3/02

+)					

+					</td>

+</tr>

+<tr>

+<td valign="top">

+<DIV>

+<span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt;color:#000099;TEXT-INDENT: 18pt">

+<P>¬Q(1)¤é¤j½L¥H¸õªÅ¤è¦¡­«®À¡A¤@Á|¶^¯}5650ÂI¤Î5570ÂIªº¤ä¼µ¡AÁöµM¦¬½L¤´¦³22ÀɪѲ¼º¦°±¡A¦ý¬O«o¦³62®a¬O¥H¶^°±°µ¦¬¡A³oºØ±¡§Î¬O¦Û°ªÂI¦^ÀÉ¥H¨Ó©Ò­º¨£¡A½æÀ£³Ì±j¤jªº¤@¤Ñ¡AÅãµMÆ[±æªºÄw½X¯É¯É°±·l±þ¥X¡C¦b¬Q¤é¶^°±ªº62ÀɪѲ¼¤¤¡A¦³±Nªñ2/3¬O¹q¤lªÑ¡A¥]¬A¥x¿n¹q¡B§»¹q¡B­Zª¿µ¥­«¶q¯Å¹q¤lªÑ¡A³sª÷¿ÄªÑ»â¥ý¾ã²z³\¤[¡A¤]Ãø°k¨ü²o³sªº¤U³õ¡Cµu½u¶^³t¥[§Ö¡A¬O¥½¶^»°©³ªº¨«¶Õ¡FÁÙ¬O¥D¶^¬q¥[³t¡A¶·¥Î¤ß¨DÃÒ¡C¬ã§P¥½¶^¬q©Î¬O¥D¶^¬q³Ì¦³®Äªº¤èªk¤§¤@¡A´N¬OÆ[¹î¯Ê¤f¦^¸Éªºª¬ªp¡C­Y¬O¥½¶^»°©³ªº¨«¶Õ¡A¬°ºÜºÉ¯Ê¤f¡A¬OªÅ¤è¤O¶q³Ì«áªº´è¬ª¡C³q±`³£¯à¦bµu®É¶¡¤º¨³³t¦^¸É¡C¦Ü©ó¥D¶^¬qªº¯Ê¤f¡A¥Ñ©óÁͶխè­è§Î¦¨¡A¤j¦h¬°¤¤¶¡¯Ê¤f¡C¤@¯ë¦Ó¨¥¡A¤¤¶¡¯Ê¤f¬O«Ü¤Ö¦bµu´Á¤º¦^¸Éªº¡C©Ò¥H¡A¬Q¤é¦b5660-5584ÂIªº¸õªÅ¯Ê¤f¯à§_¦b3¤é¤º¦^¸É¬O¬Û·íÃöÁ䪺¡C¥u­n¯Ê¤f¯à°÷¦^¸É¡A¨º»ò©Ô¦^³£¥i«Ø¥ß¦hÀY³¡¦ì¡C¥t¥~¡A¬Q¤é´£¤Î¦^ÀÉ1/3©Î0.382­¿ªº¤ä¼µ¡A·íµM¬O¾Dáè¬ï¡C¥i¹w¨£ªº¤ä¼µ¤]¤U²¾¦Ü1/2ªº¦ì¸m¡A¬ù¦b5375ÂI¤W¤U¡A»P72¤é§¡½uªº5410ÂI¬O¬Û·í±µªñ¡A¦¹¤@¦ì¸mªº¤ä¼µ¤O¶q¤£¤p¡AÀ³¸Ó¤£·|¹³5575ÂIªºª¬ªp¡C¦Ü¤Ö¬Ý¦b¶^²`¤Ï¼uªº¨¤«×¡A¬O¦³¤Ï¼u¥i¥H¹w´Á¡C¤Ï¼uªº­«ÂIªÑÀ³¸Ó¬O¥H¦^Àɸû²`ªº¹q¤lªÑ¤Îª÷¿ÄªÑ¬°¥D¡C³o¨âÃþªÑ¬O³Ì¯àµo´§¼µ½L¥ô°Èªº¡C­Y¹q¤l¡Bª÷¿Ä¤Ï¼u¡A¶·¯d·N¤¤·§ÃD§÷ªº¤p«¬ªÑ¡A¦³¥i¯à¶X¶Ã²V¤ôºN³½¡C¾Þ§@¤W¡A¤¤·§ªÑª£§@º¦´T¤w¤j¡A¤£©y¦A°l°ª¡A¤ÏÀ³¦V¤W´î½X¡A¤´«ù¦³¹q¤l¡Bª÷¿ÄªÑªº³¡¦ì«h¥i¼È®ÉÄò©ê¡C</P>

+<p align="right">[<a href="http://www.smartnet.com.tw" target="_new">SmartNet´¼´Iºô</a>´£¨Ñ]</p>

+</span>

+</DIV>

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr align="center"><td>

+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/ad_server/adbase.asp?c=1&amp;b=1&amp;f=0&amp;i=25&amp;h=10">

+

+					//fake

+					 </script>

+</td></tr>

+<tr align="center"><td>

+<a href="/" style="text-decoration:underline">¦^­º­¶</a>

+</td></tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+<td NAME="right_tdbg" id="right_tdbg" valign="top" height="540" width="180" background="/himages/transparent.gif" style="background-position: 0% 100% ; background-repeat:no-repeat">

+<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%">

+<tr><td align="center">

+<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">

+<tr><td align="center" colspan="3" width="126" height="15"></td></tr>

+<tr><td align="center" colspan="3" bgcolor="black" width="126">

+<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td height="5"></td></tr></table>

+<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><font color="white">·s¡D»D¡D±½¡DºË</font></span>

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr>

+<td xbgcolor="blue" width="1"></td>

+<td align="center" value="blue">

+<table cellpandding="0" cellspacing="0">

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302A23.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¤­¬P¯Å«K·í¤@¦Ê¥i¶R

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030245.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¶Ç§Q²v±N½Õ­°¬üªÑ¤W

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030211.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">°ê¤ºPE¡BPP¶ì½¦

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030212.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¥x¿n¹qADR1¤é¶^

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030213.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">Áp¹qADR1¤é¶^´T

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030214.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">©ô§»ADR1¤é¶^´T

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030215.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¬üºÖ¹p¹q1¤é¶^´T3

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030216.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¤é¤ë¥úADR1¤é¶^

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030217.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¥xªÑ1¤é¿Ä¸ê¾lÃB´î

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030218.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">IBM¶Ç¬Ý¦n¥»©uÀç

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news2001030219.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¹©±d´Á³f¡Gª`·N¥~¸ê

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302110.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¤O¥@±á°T¡G¥H¶q¤î¶^

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302111.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¥Ò°©¤åÀò§Q¤£¦p¹w´Á

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302112.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¤¸¤j¨ÊµØ±á°T¡GÄ­ÆC

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302113.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">µ×­^±á°T¡G§QªÅ®ø®§

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302114.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¤Ó¥­¬v±á°T¡G«ü¼Æ©ó

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302115.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¥x¨|´Á³f¡G¥xªÑ­«®À

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302116.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¼Ú¬w¥D­nªÑ¥«¦¬½L¦æ

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302117.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">²ü»È«ØijBªÑ§ë¸ê¤H

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td>¡E</td>

+<td align="left" nowrap="true">

+<A href="news20010302118.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">µØÄ_:DRAM®w¦s

+..</span>

+</A>

+</td></tr>

+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">

+</td></tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+<td xbgcolor="blue" width="1"></td>

+<td width="60"></td>

+</tr>

+<!--<tr><td align="center" colspan="3" bgcolor="black" width="126" height="15"><font color="white"></font></td></tr>

+-->

+</table>

+</td></tr></table>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/ad_server/adbase.asp?c=1&amp;b=1&amp;f=0&amp;i=7&amp;d=0&amp;h=10">

+

+					//fake

+					</script>

+<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">

+							chage_tdbg(left_tdbg,RndImg0());

+					</SCRIPT>

+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/ad_server/adbase.asp?c=1&amp;b=1&amp;f=0&amp;i=8&amp;d=0&amp;h=10">

+

+					//fake

+					</script>

+<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">

+							chage_tdbg(right_tdbg,RndImg0());

+					</SCRIPT>

+<table width="780" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">

+<tr>

+<td height="28" bgcolor="#f0e68c" width="137" align="center">

+<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">

+<tr>

+<td width="50"></td>

+<td>

+<img src="/himages/transparent.gif" height="3" /><br />

+<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">

+<a href="/ctsmuseum" target="_top" class="b">¡@µØµø¥x¥vÀ]</a>¡E<br />

+<a href="/ctse" target="_top" class="b">µØµø¤å¤Æ¤½¥q</a>¡E<br />

+<a href="/training/frame.htm" target="_top" class="b">µØµø°V½m¤¤¤ß</a>¡E

+				</span>

+</td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</td>

+<td height="28" bgcolor="#0066ff" width="5"></td>

+<td height="28" bgcolor="#f0e68c" width="1"></td>

+<td height="28" bgcolor="#0066ff" width="468" align="center">

+<img src="/himages/transparent.gif" height="3" /><br />

+<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">

+<font color="#ffffff">¤¤µØ¹qµøªÑ¥÷¦³­­¤½¥q www.cts.com.tw ª©Åv©Ò¦³</font><br />

+<font face="Arial" size="1" color="#ffffff"><img src="/himages/copyright.gif" /> 2000 CTS Inc. All Rights Reserved. Established 1997-01-03</font><br />

+<font face="Arial" size="1" color="#ffffff"> 106 ¥x¥_¥«¥ú´_«n¸ô100¸¹ Tel: (02)2751-0321 </font><a href="mailto:service@cts.com.tw" class="c"><img src="/himages/mail.gif" align="absmiddle" hspace="3" border="0" />µØµøªA°È«H½c</a>

+</span></td>

+<td height="28" bgcolor="#f0e68c" width="1"></td>

+<td height="28" bgcolor="#0066ff" width="5"></td>

+<td height="28" bgcolor="#f0e68c" width="165">

+<img src="/himages/transparent.gif" height="3" /><br />

+<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">

+	      ¡E<a href="/prgtopic/prgtopic.htm" target="_top" class="b">¸`¥Ø¯d¨¥ªO</a><br />

+	      ¡E<a href="/bossmail" target="_top" class="b">µØµøÁ`¸g²z«H½c</a><br />

+	      ¡E<a href="/news/email/email.htm" target="_top" class="b">·s»D¥D¼½«H½c</a>

+</span>

+</td>

+</tr>

+<tr>

+<td height="1" bgcolor="#000000" colspan="7"></td>

+</tr>

+</table>

+</DIV>

+</BODY>

+<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">

+<!--

+ //tier1Menu(menu1,img1);

+ 

+-->

+</SCRIPT>

+</HTML>

+

diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f253987d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Status question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000066.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000074.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Status question</H1>
+    <B>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Status question">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:18:42 +0100 (MET)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#69">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#69">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#69">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#69">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior 
+experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 
+overall project?
+
+Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+
+I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+
+
+Regards,
+Miguel
+
+BTW Have you ever though about reusing other GPL projects source?
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+    <B>Stefan Nilsen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:02:52 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Wednesday 29 November 2000 15:38, <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+</I>&gt;<i> Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is
+</I>&gt;<i> possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+</I>
+WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:10:24 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>massively multiplayer online real time strategy
+(game like stracraft but massively online)
+
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+</I>
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000072.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000072.html
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:50:38 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 03:38:54PM +0100, <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i> i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+</I>&gt;<i> What algo will you be using?
+</I>
+Dunno if it could be related, but the word =AB distributed =BB made me flas=
+h ;-)
+I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]), with
+the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal language which d=
+oes
+has nice features about distribution. Maybe that could be worth a look,
+although I'm still not sure an interpreted language is really usable for
+something like NeL or STAGE...=20
+
+	Best regards,
+
+		Shaman
+
+[1] <A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>
+[2] <A HREF="http://www.erlang.org">http://www.erlang.org</A> =20
+    <A HREF="http://www.erlang-fr.org">http://www.erlang-fr.org</A> (under construction)
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |    =20
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoliD4ACgkQGBtCB6PQIcsTzQCgz1RuIUyK+vJsab7904ivRkqz
+TsUAnRtzTz+qdhL90GIDITtRT8cAMZ8m
+=AUVC
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000073.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000073.html
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+   <TITLE> [offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr">
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+   <H1>[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</H1>
+    <B>David Mentre</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+       TITLE="[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>30 Nov 2000 08:59:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thierry Mallard &lt;<A HREF="mailto:thierry@mallard.com">thierry@mallard.com</A>&gt; writes:
+
+&gt;<i> I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]),
+</I>&gt;<i> with the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal
+</I>&gt;<i> language which does has nice features about distribution.
+</I>
+You could also have a look at Objective Caml[1]. It is a functionnal
+language (ML style with type inference for those interested) but with
+modules and object oriented capabilities. It has not pre-build
+distributed facilities but toolkits have been built on it, like
+Ensemble[2].
+
+On Erlang, one thing to notice is that reliability is in charge of the
+programmer. But maybe your are involved in some other projects using
+Erlang. ;)
+
+&gt;<i>  Maybe that could be worth a look, although I'm still not sure an
+</I>&gt;<i> interpreted language is really usable for something like NeL or
+</I>&gt;<i> STAGE...
+</I>
+OCaml can be compiled in both bytecode and native code for about any
+platform (from ARM to Alpha through x86 [2b]). And people have made
+hacks to dynamically load bytecode and native code into
+programs[3]. Also notice that bytecode is portable across platforms.
+
+Sorry if it is a bit of topic, but I could not resist for this blatant
+advertising. ;) And maybe NeL will have more that just Python support...
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+
+[1] <A HREF="http://caml.inria.fr/">http://caml.inria.fr/</A>
+[2] <A HREF="http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/Projects/Ensemble/index.html">http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/Projects/Ensemble/index.html</A>
+[2b] <A HREF="http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/portability.html">http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/portability.html</A>
+[3] <A HREF="http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200011/msg00180.html">http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200011/msg00180.html</A>
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000074.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000074.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Status question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Status question</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Status question">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:19:13 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+&gt;<i> I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior 
+</I>&gt;<i> experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 
+</I>&gt;<i> overall project?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+</I>
+None of the above? :)
+
+The game itself is somewhere between planning and alpha. We are approaching
+the date of our first internal prototype, but we know what the game itself
+is about, how it will play (in terms of game), and how we are structuring
+the NeL platform and how it is used to develop the real game.
+
+&gt;<i> I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+</I>
+Depend on what you call running. You do not have a 3D scene and interface
+available yet, for example, but you have several services for the building
+of the server part.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/author.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-November Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov  8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="57"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="58"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="60"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="4"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="39"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="40"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="44"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="49"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="51"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="59"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="61"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="74"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="5"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="50"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="53"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="28"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="54"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="62"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="63"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="67"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="37"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="3"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="65"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="71"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="69"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="31"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="23"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="26"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="43"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="48"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="38"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="45"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="72"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="64"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="68"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="73"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="55"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="70"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="32"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="47"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="22"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="25"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="41"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="24"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="27"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="35"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="36"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="42"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="52"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="56"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="2"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="29"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="30"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="33"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="34"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="66"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="46"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3514789e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,118 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-November Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov  8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="2"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="3"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="4"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="5"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="22"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="23"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="24"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="25"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="26"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="27"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="28"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="29"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="30"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="31"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="32"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="33"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="34"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="35"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="36"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="37"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="38"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="39"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="40"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="41"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="42"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="43"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="44"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="45"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="46"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="47"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="48"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="49"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="51"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="50"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="52"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="53"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="54"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="55"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="56"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="57"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="58"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="59"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="60"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="61"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="62"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="63"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="64"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="65"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="66"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="67"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="68"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="69"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="70"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="71"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="72"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="73"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="74"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..02ee5bff
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,251 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-November Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov  8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00973707545- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="912"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973707545-00973761399- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="914"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973708927- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="913"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--0 00973777600- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="915"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<!--0 00973792221- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="916"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973792221-00973841567- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="918"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="921"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="923"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428-00973852988- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="925"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973795438- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="917"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973795438-00973847372- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="920"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973795438-00973847372-00973976137- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="929"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973842097- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="919"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00973848571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="922"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973848571-00973849176- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="924"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973893828- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="926"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973948689- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="927"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973973901- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="928"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974033910- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="931"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974033910-00974039696- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="932"></A><I>Sal</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974111869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="933"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="935"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="936"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="937"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974223796- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="945"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="946"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974227921- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="947"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="948"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426-00974302047- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="949"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="952"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722-00974464059- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="954"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974214308- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="940"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974030662- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="930"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--0 00974138730- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="934"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974138730-00974213485- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="938"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974213998- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="939"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974213998-00974214649- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="941"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974216002- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="942"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219209- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="943"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219354- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="944"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974383936- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="950"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974383936-00974392329- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="951"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="953"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="955"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183-00974732615- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="959"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974639651- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="956"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="957"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707960- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="958"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974905952- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="962"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974639651-00974905952-00974969674- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="963"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974808577- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="960"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974808577-00974805520- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="961"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975089975- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="964"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975089975-00975407720- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="970"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975410943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="971"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975420178- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="973"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975097086- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="965"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975097086-00975111365- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="966"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402258- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="967"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402258-00975418805- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="972"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402327- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="968"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402327-00975405058- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="969"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975495321- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="974"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975496592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="975"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="976"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="979"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922-00975572353- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="984"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="980"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172-00975528624- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="981"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="982"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638-00975567594- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="983"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975506541- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="977"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975506541-00975507213- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="978"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,118 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-November Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov  8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="57"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="62"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="51"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="50"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="58"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="59"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="66"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="70"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="71"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="72"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="55"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="56"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="29"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="31"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="32"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="33"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="34"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="54"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="60"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="61"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="63"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="22"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="23"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="25"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="24"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="28"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="26"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="27"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="30"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="35"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="40"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="41"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="43"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="45"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="49"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="64"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="67"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="68"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="3"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="5"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="42"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="44"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="46"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="47"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="48"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="52"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="53"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="36"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="37"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="38"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="39"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="69"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="74"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="2"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="4"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="65"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="73"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..02ee5bff
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,251 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2000-November Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov  8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00973707545- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="912"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973707545-00973761399- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="914"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973708927- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="913"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--0 00973777600- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="915"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<!--0 00973792221- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="916"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973792221-00973841567- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="918"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="921"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="923"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428-00973852988- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="925"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973795438- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="917"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973795438-00973847372- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="920"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973795438-00973847372-00973976137- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="929"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973842097- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="919"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00973848571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="922"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973848571-00973849176- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="924"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973893828- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="926"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973948689- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="927"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973973901- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="928"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974033910- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="931"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974033910-00974039696- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="932"></A><I>Sal</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974111869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="933"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="935"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="936"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="937"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974223796- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="945"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="946"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974227921- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="947"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="948"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426-00974302047- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="949"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="952"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722-00974464059- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="954"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974214308- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="940"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974030662- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="930"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--0 00974138730- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="934"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974138730-00974213485- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="938"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974213998- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="939"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974213998-00974214649- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="941"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974216002- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="942"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219209- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="943"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219354- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="944"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974383936- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="950"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974383936-00974392329- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="951"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="953"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="955"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183-00974732615- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="959"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974639651- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="956"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="957"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707960- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="958"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974905952- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="962"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974639651-00974905952-00974969674- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="963"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974808577- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="960"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974808577-00974805520- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="961"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975089975- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="964"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975089975-00975407720- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="970"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975410943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="971"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975420178- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="973"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975097086- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="965"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975097086-00975111365- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="966"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402258- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="967"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402258-00975418805- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="972"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402327- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="968"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402327-00975405058- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="969"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975495321- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="974"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975496592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="975"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="976"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="979"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922-00975572353- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="984"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="980"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172-00975528624- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="981"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="982"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638-00975567594- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="983"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975506541- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="977"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975506541-00975507213- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="978"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html
new file mode 100644
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html
@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Subscribe Me</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000393.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Subscribe Me</H1>
+    <B>Brandon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Subscribe Me">brandon_425@yahoo.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE> 
+ 
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
+<A HREF="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A>
+
+</pre>
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+
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+    <P><UL>
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+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000392.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000394.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</H1>
+    <B>Brandon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net">brandon_425@yahoo.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Mark,
+
+I noticed that you had reflexnet.net also as your ISP. I can't
+believe they pulled the carpet right out from under us and went
+bankrupt. Technology is funny these days.  Just like the stock
+market. Ouch!!!  :)  Funny huh?  I found a great new ISP, let me
+know if you want the info or if you could give me some help
+finding a new ISP.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Brandon
+<A HREF="mailto:brandon_425@yahoo.com">brandon_425@yahoo.com</A>
+Home: 503.605.5433
+
+
+--- <A HREF="mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org">nel-request@nevrax.org</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> Welcome to the <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> mailing list!
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> To post to this list, send your email to:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>   <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> General information about the mailing list is at:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>   <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg,
+</I>&gt;<i> switch to
+</I>&gt;<i> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
+</I>&gt;<i> subscription page at:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/options.cgi/nel/brandon_425@yahoo.com">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/options.cgi/nel/brandon_425@yahoo.com</A>
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a
+</I>&gt;<i> message to:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>   <A HREF="mailto:Nel-request@nevrax.org">Nel-request@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
+</I>&gt;<i> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You must know your password to change your options (including
+</I>&gt;<i> changing
+</I>&gt;<i> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>   by09661
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a
+</I>&gt;<i> monthly
+</I>&gt;<i> reminder telling you what all your nevrax.org mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> passwords
+</I>&gt;<i> are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options.  There is
+</I>&gt;<i> also a
+</I>&gt;<i> button on your options page that will email your current
+</I>&gt;<i> password to
+</I>&gt;<i> you.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You may also have your password mailed to you automatically
+</I>&gt;<i> off of the
+</I>&gt;<i> Web page noted above.
+</I>
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
+<A HREF="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40thatsnice.org">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1>
+    <B>robert@thatsnice.org</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40thatsnice.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">robert@thatsnice.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:47:53 -0700 (PDT)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#394">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello again Nevrax folks,
+
+I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+to get involved again.
+
+Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is
+collaboration with the community.  We're not just here to bug you. :)
+
+Hope everything's going well.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot;Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html
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index 00000000..fbb8d5f1
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:52:53 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Robert,
+
+<A HREF="mailto:robert@thatsnice.org">robert@thatsnice.org</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is
+</I>&gt;<i> collaboration with the community.  We're not just here to bug you. :)
+</I>
+hehe ... i think that we quite aware of that :-)
+
+We are just meeting some of our own internal Milestones so, as you guess,
+we are quite busy at the moment.
+
+Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+
+A new version of Snowball sould be done for the first of May. That new
+version will use the new network and 3D implementation of NeL.
+
+So don't worry, we didn't forget you, it's just that we are very busy.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000395.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1>
+    <B>David Mentre</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>10 Apr 2001 09:17:41 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Cedric Valignat &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt; writes:
+
+&gt;<i> Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+</I>&gt;<i> the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+</I>
+About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen?
+Automata over kernel threads?
+
+BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but
+did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@inria.fr">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1>
+    <B>sameh chafik Pro</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:01:48 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#397">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Robert
+
+&gt;<i> I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+</I>&gt;<i> you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+</I>&gt;<i> to get involved again.
+</I>
+What kind of project you are working on ?
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:35:06 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#398">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to David Mentre:
+&gt;<i> Cedric Valignat &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt; writes:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen?
+</I>&gt;<i> Automata over kernel threads?
+</I>
+We're finishing the design docs, which will explain exactly how we're
+going to work. Can't explain further yet. You'll have to wait a little bit
+more for these to appear on the web/CVS.
+
+&gt;<i> BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but
+</I>&gt;<i> did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests?
+</I>
+We haven't any formal test system for elementary modules. There are some
+self-contained examples in the nel/samples directory that show how some
+modules work, and which could easily be turned into testbeds to check
+functionality.
+
+If you think you can find better examples, or put added examples that
+can serve as tests at the same time, your contribution will be well
+appreciated.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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+ right?</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</H1>
+    <B>robert@thatsnice.org</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40thatsnice.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?">robert@thatsnice.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
+&gt;<i> Hello Robert
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; to get involved again.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> What kind of project you are working on ?
+</I>
+Why a 3d MUD, of course.
+
+I started out on a MOO, then got into ColdMUD, which then begat this
+project:
+
+coldstore.sourceforge.net
+
+Which is just the back-end, and is embrionic still.
+
+My goal is to replace all the MMORPGs with a decentralized free
+alternative.  Of course, this would compete with Nevrax, but that will
+just encourage them to be better. :)
+
+I think Nevrax has the best philosophical approach to this problem of
+any commercial effort, and I applaud them.  However, since I don't
+work there, and I still want to work on these problems, I work for
+free.
+
+The particular subject I wish to tackle with an MMORPG is the social
+experimentation subject.  This has been tried before in text-based
+adventures (LambdaMOO and its descendents), but never on a large
+enough scale or with new technology.
+
+I want to see if we can learn something as a culture by creating a
+super dynamic world with maximum &quot;player&quot; input into the universe and
+maybe solve some of our differences inside that world.  Then maybe we
+can carry those lessons to the outside world.
+
+My experiment would NOT be a game.  It would also not be a pure
+simulation because we just don't have that technology yet, either in
+input and output or in resources to process or computer it.  It would
+be a rough analogy of life, and would try to put everyone at roughly
+the same level of world interaction, within reason.  It would be based
+heavily on life as we know it, but with an accelerated time scale.
+
+I try not to think too much about whether I actually expect this to
+ever happen or be popular. :)
+
+Thanks for asking!
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot;Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] proposed control changes</H1>
+    <B>Dan Erikson</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:derikson%40montana.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] proposed control changes">derikson@montana.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:49:18 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all, this is kind of long, sorry.  I had some thoughts that I'd like to
+get some feedback on, and some code that you might find useful.
+
+I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so
+that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window
+and move the mouse in order to move the view around.  This is a change
+from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the
+application.  This allows one to use other applications while the game
+is running.  I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at
+the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons.  It'll also alow
+for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of
+the screen.  The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on
+windows.  It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone 
+would test it.
+
+I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already 
+in use
+for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would
+work better:
+
+* Left mouse button to move the view around
+* Right mouse button to move forward
+* Space button to throw a snowball
+* Enter button to enter chat mode
+     After text is typed and enter is pressed, return from chat mode
+* Mousewheel forward to zoom in
+* Mousewheel backwards to zoom out
+* Left button turns the view left normally
+* If control+left or left_mouse+left, then strafe left
+* Right button turns the view right normally
+* If control+right or left_mouse+right, then strafe right
+
+The normal mode/chat mode allows us to use the keys for functionality rather
+than F1-F12, which is a little harder to remember than something like 
+'r' for
+toggle radar.  Also, there are a limited number of function buttons, so I
+think having access to all the other keys would allow good future expansion.
+
+The changes to the mouse buttons allows one to move around the world using
+only the mouse.
+
+It would also be nice to have the ability to customize these keys, but 
+that's
+something for a little later.
+
+If anyone has any comments about this stuff, I'd love to hear them.
+
+Patch to use right mouse button to move the heading around:
+
+Index: move_listener.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -c -r1.23 move_listener.cpp
+*** move_listener.cpp    2001/04/10 10:20:48    1.23
+--- move_listener.cpp    2001/04/13 02:21:30
+***************
+*** 54,63 ****
+  \****************************************************************/
+  CMoveListener::CMoveListener()
+  {
+!     _MouseFree = false;
+    
+-     _CursorInit = false;
+-
+     _Width = 0;
+     _Height = 0;
+ 
+--- 54,61 ----
+  \****************************************************************/
+  CMoveListener::CMoveListener()
+  {
+!     _MouseFree = true;
+    
+     _Width = 0;
+     _Height = 0;
+ 
+***************
+*** 184,190 ****
+  \****************************************************************/
+  void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent&amp; event)
+  {
+!     static const float eps = 0.001f;
+ 
+     // Rotation
+     if (event==EventMouseMoveId)
+--- 182,188 ----
+  \****************************************************************/
+  void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent&amp; event)
+  {
+!     static const float eps = 0.002f;
+ 
+     // Rotation
+     if (event==EventMouseMoveId)
+***************
+*** 196,240 ****
+ 
+         if(!_MouseFree)
+         {
+!             if(_CursorInit)
+             {
+!                 float difx =  0.5f-mouseEvent-&gt;X;
+!                 float dify =  -(0.5f-mouseEvent-&gt;Y);
+!                 if( (float)fabs(difx) &gt; eps || (float)fabs(dify) &gt; eps)
+                 {
+!                     if ( (float)fabs(difx) &gt; eps)
+!                     {
+!                          LocalArea-&gt;User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) );
+                     }
+!                     if ( (float)fabs(dify) &gt; eps)
+!                     {
+!                          LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify);
+!                          if(LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch&gt;(float)Pi/2)
+!                          {
+!                              LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2;
+!                          }
+!                          if(LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch&lt;-(float)Pi/2)
+!                          {
+!                              LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2;
+!                          }
+                     }
+-                     _Scene-&gt;getDriver()-&gt;setMousePos(0.5,0.5);
+                 }
+               }
+-               else
+-               {
+-                   _CursorInit = true;
+-                 _Scene-&gt;getDriver()-&gt;setMousePos(0.5,0.5);
+-               }
+         }
+     }
+  
+ 
+ 
+-     // Shoot with left mouse button
+     if ( event==EventMouseDownId)
+     {
+         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&amp;event;
+         if(mouseEvent-&gt;Button==leftButton &amp;&amp; CanShot)
+         {
+             if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) &amp;&amp; ClientSocket-&gt;connected() )
+--- 194,230 ----
+ 
+         if(!_MouseFree)
+         {
+!             float difx =  _MouseLockX-mouseEvent-&gt;X;
+!             float dify =  -(_MouseLockY-mouseEvent-&gt;Y);
+!             if( (float)fabs(difx) &gt; eps || (float)fabs(dify) &gt; eps)
+             {
+!                 if ( (float)fabs(difx) &gt; eps)
+!                 {
+!                     LocalArea-&gt;User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) );
+!                 }
+!                 if ( (float)fabs(dify) &gt; eps)
+                 {
+!                     LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify);
+!                     if(LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch&gt;(float)Pi/2)
+!                      {
+!                         LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2;
+                     }
+!                     if(LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch&lt;-(float)Pi/2)
+!                      {
+!                         LocalArea-&gt;User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2;
+                     }
+                 }
++                 _Scene-&gt;getDriver()-&gt;setMousePos(_MouseLockX,_MouseLockY);
+               }
+         }
+     }
+  
+ 
+ 
+     if ( event==EventMouseDownId)
+     {
+         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&amp;event;
++         // Shoot with left mouse button
+         if(mouseEvent-&gt;Button==leftButton &amp;&amp; CanShot)
+         {
+             if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) &amp;&amp; ClientSocket-&gt;connected() )
+***************
+*** 249,254 ****
+--- 239,259 ----
+                 }
+             }
+         }
++         if(mouseEvent-&gt;Button==rightButton &amp;&amp; _MouseFree)
++         {
++             _MouseLockX = mouseEvent-&gt;X;
++             _MouseLockY = mouseEvent-&gt;Y;
++             changeControlMode();
++         }
++     }
++
++     if(event==EventMouseUpId)
++     {
++         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&amp;event;
++         if(mouseEvent-&gt;Button==rightButton &amp;&amp; !_MouseFree)
++         {
++             changeControlMode();
++         }
+     }
+  }
+ 
+***************
+*** 260,265 ****
+--- 265,271 ----
+  {
+     server.addListener (EventMouseMoveId, this);
+     server.addListener (EventMouseDownId, this);
++     server.addListener (EventMouseUpId, this);
+  }
+ 
+ 
+***************
+*** 270,274 ****
+--- 276,281 ----
+  {
+     server.removeListener (EventMouseMoveId, this);
+     server.removeListener (EventMouseDownId, this);
++     server.removeListener (EventMouseUpId, this);
+  }
+ 
+Index: move_listener.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.15
+diff -c -r1.15 move_listener.h
+*** move_listener.h    2001/03/05 09:39:44    1.15
+--- move_listener.h    2001/04/13 02:21:30
+***************
+*** 119,127 ****
+     /// Internal use
+     virtual void operator()(const NLMISC::CEvent&amp; event);
+    
+-     /// true if first setMousePos done
+-     bool _CursorInit;
+-
+     CScene * _Scene;
+    
+     /// screen width
+--- 119,124 ----
+***************
+*** 155,160 ****
+--- 152,160 ----
+     float _MouseY;
+ 
+     bool _Shot;
++
++     float _MouseLockX;
++     float _MouseLockY;
+  };
+ 
+ 
+Index: client.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/client.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.177
+diff -c -r1.177 client.cpp
+*** client.cpp    2001/04/12 17:06:42    1.177
+--- client.cpp    2001/04/13 02:22:13
+***************
+*** 1880,1893 ****
+     LocalArea-&gt;setEntityMovedCallback( moveEntityInstance );
+     LocalArea-&gt;setEntityRemovedCallback( deleteEntityInstance );
+ 
+-     // hide mouse cursor
+-     CNELU::Driver-&gt;showCursor(false);
+- #ifdef NL_RELEASE
+-     CNELU::Driver-&gt;setCapture(true);
+- #endif
+-
+-
+-
+     // Load meshes
+     /*
+     vector&lt;string&gt;::iterator itshp;
+--- 1880,1885 ----
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] proposed control changes</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] proposed control changes">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:41:25 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+Dan Erikson wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so
+</I>&gt;<i> that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window
+</I>&gt;<i> and move the mouse in order to move the view around.  This is a change
+</I>&gt;<i> from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the
+</I>&gt;<i> application.  This allows one to use other applications while the game
+</I>&gt;<i> is running.  I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at
+</I>&gt;<i> the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons.  It'll also alow
+</I>&gt;<i> for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of
+</I>&gt;<i> the screen.  The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on
+</I>&gt;<i> windows.  It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone 
+</I>&gt;<i> would test it.
+</I>
+Nice :-)
+
+I'm going to take a look on that next week and i will test it on windows
+before to integrate the patch. I will keep you inform of the results :-)
+
+&gt;<i> I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already 
+</I>&gt;<i> in use
+</I>&gt;<i> for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would
+</I>&gt;<i> work better:
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+The control configuration is a very personal thing, we choose a quite common
+way to configure the moves control ... but it wiil be nice to be able to
+easly configure them :-)
+
+I do agree with you on the Function keys and the ability to be able to use
+the other keys of the keyboard ... migth be nice to have ;-)
+
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000401.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000403.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:34:53 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>While waiting for the whole load, here's a quick and short document. Look
+at it, and critique your hearts out...
+
+Client server connect
+
+This document describes quickly the connection process of a client to a world
+running a NeL-based system.
+
+Abbreviations
+-------------
+
+LS: The login service (one overall)
+WS: The welcome service (one for each world)
+FES: The front-end service (N per world)
+
+Steps
+-----
+
+1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied
+   IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP
+   resolution.
+
+   Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS
+   spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client.
+   However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location.
+
+2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+
+3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all
+   available worlds according to account information and current system
+   settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that
+   world.
+
+   Note: DNS is not used in that step.
+
+4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+   of its world service to the LS.
+
+5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection
+   desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the
+   incoming connection.
+
+   Note: The cookie includes the client's IP, as seen by the LS (to avoid
+   address translation problems) for validation.
+
+6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie
+   to the FES.
+
+7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS.
+
+8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and
+   indicates the IP/port of the selected FES.
+
+9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the
+   IP/port of the selected FES.
+
+10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+
+11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+
+12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES.
+
+13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie.
+
+Side notes
+----------
+
+Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS,
+using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two
+physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message
+serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:59:43 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote:
+&gt;<i> Steps
+</I>&gt;<i> -----
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied
+</I>&gt;<i>    IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP
+</I>&gt;<i>    resolution.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>    Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS
+</I>&gt;<i>    spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client.
+</I>&gt;<i>    However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location.
+</I>
+Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ?
+(dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...)
+
+&gt;<i> 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+</I>
+In plaintext ?
+
+&gt;<i> 3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all
+</I>&gt;<i>    available worlds according to account information and current system
+</I>&gt;<i>    settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that
+</I>&gt;<i>    world.
+</I>
+Maybe the use of challenges would be more secure, but i'm not a specialist in
+this matter :-(
+
+&gt;<i> 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+</I>&gt;<i>    of its world service to the LS.
+</I>
+Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ?
+(then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS)
+
+&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;<i> 10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+</I>
+I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS
+_after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes
+wrong, the client could goto 4 directly.
+
+
+Best regards,
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              | <A HREF="http://vawis.net">http://vawis.net</A>
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | <A HREF="http://erlang-fr.org">http://erlang-fr.org</A> (new)
+key 0xA3D021CB               | <A HREF="http://worldforge.org">http://worldforge.org</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:33:31 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote:
+&gt;<i> Steps
+</I>&gt;<i> -----
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;<i> 5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection
+</I>&gt;<i>    desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the
+</I>&gt;<i>    incoming connection.
+</I>
+The LS &lt;--&gt; WS connection should be studied, perhaps ?
+(if it wasn't intended in this document, then let's see that later.. ;-) )
+
+[ *err.. ok i just read the end on the original mail, just forget it* ]
+
+&gt;<i> 6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie
+</I>&gt;<i>    to the FES.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS.
+</I>
+So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ?
+-- the balancing being done at network level, not process level --
+
+&gt;<i> 8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and
+</I>&gt;<i>    indicates the IP/port of the selected FES.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the
+</I>&gt;<i>    IP/port of the selected FES.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie.
+</I>
+IMHO, as said in the other mail, the client should then disconnect from the
+LS ; not before. The downside I see in this case would be the extended time of
+connection (steps 11 et 13), which will lead to more network load. I don't see
+how important that would be.
+
+&gt;<i> Side notes
+</I>&gt;<i> ----------
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS,
+</I>&gt;<i> using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two
+</I>&gt;<i> physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message
+</I>&gt;<i> serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+</I>&gt;<i> name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+</I>&gt;<i> to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+</I>
+ok, so i should have read the whole document before arguing ;-))
+
+Hope this helps..
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              | <A HREF="http://vawis.net">http://vawis.net</A>
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | <A HREF="http://erlang-fr.org">http://erlang-fr.org</A> (new)
+key 0xA3D021CB               | <A HREF="http://worldforge.org">http://worldforge.org</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] CVS tree changes</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] CVS tree changes">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:58:19 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li>
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+<PRE>Hello everybody,
+
+We have made some small changement in the CVS tree about Snowballs :
+
+   - a directory &quot;code/snowballs&quot; was created. This directory contain 2
+     subdirectories : &quot;client&quot; &amp; &quot;server&quot;.
+
+   - the &quot;code/client&quot; files were moved to &quot;code/snowballs/client&quot;.
+
+   - the &quot;code/server/moves_service&quot; was moved to &quot;code/snowballs/server/moves_service&quot;.
+
+
+It ws a little mess and we had to clen it up, so as the client directory was
+*only* the snowballs client and the mose_service was used only for running
+a snowballs shard we decided to move these diretories in a more appropriate
+directory.
+
+Some of the txt file were not corrected yet so you migth find them quite
+innacurate ... that will be fixed tomorow ...
+
+Otherwise, the &quot;code/server&quot; directory will be renamed to &quot;code/nelns&quot;
+(standing for NeL Network Service) and will contain our services
+to run a generic shard, services that aren't part of the games
+services but are necessary to run a shard ...
+
+
+Have fune :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000410.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:08 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li>
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+<PRE>Hello,
+
+As i told about in my preceding mail, the CVS code/server directory was renamed
+to code nelns (standing for NeL Network Services).
+
+So you will get that new structure from tonigth CVS synchronization ...
+
+
+Have a good time ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:27:13 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I'll answer both posts at the same time...
+
+According to Thierry Mallard:
+&gt;<i> Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ?
+</I>&gt;<i> (dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...)
+</I>
+There are two ways you can find out a server:
+
+1) Hardcode the IP address (then, you cannot move the server)
+2) Use DNS for dynamic IP (then, the hardcoded address is the root of the
+	DNS tree - which, hopefully, changes even less often than we will)
+
+You can't specify your &quot;own DNS&quot;. Using that is basically the same as
+using method 1: you still have to put a server at a static IP that gives
+you off the dynamic IP.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> In plaintext ?
+</I>
+If we assume the link has a crypt method in it, why not.
+
+Three possible methods for password submission
+
+1) Plaintext, assuming the connection has a form of crypt in place
+2) MD5/crypt password. Spoofable, since:
+	a) You can capture the MD5/crypt string
+	b) You have the client source, so can hack it to send the static
+		crypted password instead of crypting the - unknown - plaintext
+3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the
+	current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first
+	bytes of the MD5 digest.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;    of its world service to the LS.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ?
+</I>&gt;<i> (then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS)
+</I>
+Not good. Typically, the client will connect to the world the player has
+a character he wants to play today :)
+
+However, the client may use the IP addresses of the WS to ping them and
+figure out which connection is better (when selecting its first world).
+
+&gt;<i> So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ?
+</I>&gt;<i> -- the balancing being done at network level, not process level --
+</I>
+The WS *is* the load balancing mechanism. Since he's aware of all FES
+up and running, and knows their load right now, he's best suited to
+determine which FES can afford to manage a new character.
+
+&gt;<i> I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS
+</I>&gt;<i> _after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes
+</I>&gt;<i> wrong, the client could goto 4 directly.
+</I>
+Hmmm, that might be good, yes.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Status Update?</H1>
+    <B>EagleEye</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Status Update?">eagleeye@flashmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:10:03 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start =
+putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such.  =
+The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works for NeL, and =
+we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's =
+textures.
+
+Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed =
+documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will =
+work with it?
+
+Thanks,
+
+Jared Mark
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;My game project has gotten to the point where I am =
+ready to=20
+start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and=20
+such.&amp;nbsp; The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works =
+for NeL,=20
+and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for =
+it's=20
+textures.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS =
+plugin,=20
+and&amp;nbsp;detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my =
+world, so=20
+NeL will work with it?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Thanks,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Jared Mark&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2e1cae7e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html
@@ -0,0 +1,83 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Status Update?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000408.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000410.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Status Update?</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Status Update?">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:55:25 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#409">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>E&gt; My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such.  The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure
+E&gt; works for NeL, and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's textures.
+
+E&gt; Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work with it?
+
+As  I  noted  earlier, IMHO the  best solution for all of us, will be open
+format  of  NeL's  data files and accompanying stuff. In such a case we
+will be free to write converters from our favorite 3D tools XYZ to the NeL
+format. But I  can  predict  changes in format of NeL files to extend the
+current  set  of features. Just like DWG file format was always closed
+to  the  most  of  us and was subject of permanent changes, DXF file format was opened to everyone, so  I'm
+offer  not  too  stick  to  the  current implementation of NeL's binary file
+format,  but just invent some formal data format which will be the same for NeL as DXF
+is for DWG (let's name it NFF - NelFileFormat). In such a case Nevrax team create translator
+from  NFF  to  the  internal representation and the people outside the
+Nevrax  create translator from format XYZ to the NFF. With addition of
+new  features  and  other  format  changes  Nevrax make changes to the
+NFF2INTERNAL  and  we  make changes to the XYZ2NFF As a consequence of
+such  a  decision Nevrax will be free to change internal stuff without
+breaking  users  world's data and users always can store their data in
+some  intermediate  format.  Just imagine the situation. Nevrax add new
+really  cool features to the game and release new internal file format
+with  new  release  of engine. What happen with users worlds which are
+incompatible with new version ? I think you may guess ;)
+But  if  along  with  a  new  version  Nevrax will release a new version of
+converter  NFF2INTERNAL  the  problem  will be solved. This converter takes
+care  about  all internal changes and user's data will be on-line again
+within short period of time.
+
+What's about standard XML as a basement?  :)
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart
+
+PS.  May  be  I'm  completely  wrong  and  Nevrax  team  has a better
+solution?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..03c5f96e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html
@@ -0,0 +1,312 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Status Update?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000409.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000406.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Status Update?</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Status Update?">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:06:03 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#410">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+&gt;<i> E&gt; Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed
+</I>documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work
+with it?
+
+What you said about the NeL file format makes a lot of sense,  and it match
+what we planned to do in a near future.
+
+Actually, i'm going to describe the current data management.
+
+Today, our export plug-ins generate NeL binary files using the NeL
+serialisation system.
+The serialisation system is described in the document inserted at the end of
+the mail. This document
+will be available on the web site in the Doxygen Related Pages during the
+next week.
+
+Here is the URL of another document that describes how to build NeL 3d data
+from your 3d editor and export them in NeL binary format:
+
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/3d_data_howto.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/3d_data_howto.html</A>
+
+---
+
+NeL Files and Serialisation
+
+* Introduction
+
+This is really quite a difficult subject to write about - so this file is an
+introduction which describes the basic features and principles of our
+system.
+
+
+* How our files work in NeL
+
+The NeL files are NOT designed to be man-readable.  Interpretation and
+generation of file contents is performed by the objects that are to be read
+and written using a standardised mechanism. This mechanism was inspired by
+the system provided by Java.
+
+We use the term 'serialisable' to describe a class  that can be read from/
+written to a NeL data file.
+Counter-intuitive as it may, at first, appear, each 'serialisable' class
+supplies a single method that is used for both reading and writing.
+
+Note that the files are encoded in little-endian and that the NeL library
+code deals with conversion of endian-ness for big-endian platforms
+
+
+* Serialisation beyond files
+
+The serialisation system can be used for generating binary data buffers in
+memory (without writing the result to a file) or for packing and unpacking
+data for transfer over a LAN.
+
+
+* How it works
+
+Technically, we define a 'serialisable' class as a class that can be passed
+to IStream::serial().
+In order for a class to be serialisable it is sufficient for it to include
+the following method:
+ void serial(IStream&amp;).
+The fact that we use a template method definition means that a serialisable
+class does not have to be derived from any other class.
+All standard types are serialisable due to a non-template prototypes shown
+below.
+STL containers of serialisable types are serialisadble
+Pointers to non-polymorphic serialisable types are serialisable.
+
+The IStream class definition looks something like this:
+
+ class IStream
+ {
+ ...
+  void serial (int&amp;);
+  void serial (float&amp;);
+ ...
+  template &lt;class T&gt; void serial (T&amp;t)
+  {
+   t.serial (*this);
+  }
+ };
+
+
+Example:
+To make the following class serialisable:
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  int a,b;
+ };
+
+you would need to extend the class as follows:
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  int a,b;
+  void serial (IStream&amp;istream)
+  {
+   istream.serial(a);
+   istream.serial(b);
+  }
+ };
+
+The following example shows how to serialise a more complicated data
+structure
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  void serial (IStream&amp;);
+ };
+
+ class myclass
+ {
+  int     BaseType;
+  myFirstClass    SerialisableClass
+  std::vector&lt; myFirstClass&gt;  STLContainerOfSerialisableClass;
+  myFirstClass    *PointerToSerialisableClass;
+  std::vector&lt; myFirstClass*&gt;  STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass;
+
+  void serial (IStream&amp;istream)
+  {
+   istream.serial(BaseType);
+   istream.serial(SerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialCont(STLContainerOfSerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialPtr(PointerToSerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialContPtr(STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass);
+  }
+ };
+
+
+
+* Dealing with cross referenced or hierarchical data
+
+If an object contains a pointer to another object in memory then the
+serialPtr() method is used to read/ write the referenced object.
+The NeL library code writes a value corresponding to the pointer to the
+serialised data, followed by the data that the pointer points to (In the
+case of a NULL pointer the value 0 is written without any following data)
+The NeL library code automatically deals with the cases where two or more
+objects reference the same object or there is a circular reference.  Each
+time a pointer is de-referenced, for writing, NeL checks against a table of
+previous pointers;  if the pointer value already exists in the table then no
+data is written.  At read time the data structures are faithfully
+reconstructed.
+
+
+* Dealing with polymorphism within cross referenced data
+
+In a nut shell, in order to un-serialise a data record that one only has an
+interface type for, one needs to store an additional identifier with the
+data record that identifies it's real type.  The mechanism for doing this is
+best shown with an example:
+
+ class IBaseClass : public IStreamable
+ {
+  // This class is an interface. It is polymorphic.
+  virtual void foo ()=0;
+
+  // It must declare it's name
+  NLMISC_DECLARE_CLASS (MyClass);
+ };
+
+ class CClassToSerialise
+ {
+  IBaseClass  *PointerToAPolymorphicClass;
+
+  void serial (IStream&amp; s)
+  {
+   s.serialPolyPtr (PointerToAPolymorphicClass);
+  }
+ };
+
+ void main ()
+ {
+ ...
+  // The polymorphic class must be registered in the registry
+  NLMISC_REGISTER_CLASS (MyClass);
+ ...
+ }
+
+
+* Dealing with file format evolution
+
+ void serial (IStream&amp; s)
+ {
+  // At the begining of the serial process, read/ write the version number
+of the class implementation
+
+  // In the following example - at read time 'version' contains the version
+read from the stream. At
+  // write time version code '3' is written to the stream and to the
+variable 'version'.
+  int version=s.serialVersion (3);
+
+  // Now switch the version
+  switch (version)
+  {
+  case 3:
+   // The last field added in the class
+   s.serial (LastField);
+
+   // do some different stuff at read time and write time
+   if (s.isReading())
+   {
+    // at read time
+    ...
+   }
+   else
+   {
+    // at write time
+    ...
+   }
+
+  case 2:
+   // note that the code provided as of here allows for the reading of old
+versions of the class
+
+   s.serial (Toto);
+
+   // in the case where the evolution from my version 1 implementation to my
+version 2
+   // is not simply an extension of version 1 we need to break execution
+here
+   break;
+
+  case 1:
+   s.serial (Foo);
+  case 0:
+   s.serial (Truc);
+  }
+
+ }
+
+
+* NeL File Headers
+
+The objective of NeL file headers is to verify that a file is in the right
+format before attempting to interpret the contents.
+
+ // The NeL team use the following advise serialise a file this way:
+ void CFileRootClass::serial (IStream&amp; s)
+ {
+  // First write / read-check the header
+  s.serialCheck ((uint32)'_LEN');
+  s.serialCheck ((uint32)'HSEM');
+
+  // This code write / read-check the header 'NEL_MESH' at the beginning of
+the file.
+  // If the check fails, serialCheck throws the EInvalidDataStream
+exception.
+ }
+
+* Good examples to look at:
+
+ include/nel/misc/stream.h   // Stream base classes
+ class CTileBank in src/3d/tile_bank.cpp // Good example of file format
+evolution
+ class CAnimation in src/3d/animation.cpp // Good example of polymorphism
+
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..61445ed5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html
@@ -0,0 +1,162 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000413.html">
+   
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:56:44 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#412">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#412">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#412">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#412">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+The good news:
+
+We have released the source code of some of our plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1.
+
+The sources available are:
+
+* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL binary meshes, animations, skeleton =
+etc..
+* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a 3dsmax PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh.
+* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks in 3dsmax.
+
+You can find thoses plugins in the CVS tree in nel/tools/3d/plugins_max
+
+The bad news:
+
+1) One of our plugin, the landscape painter, is not in this package =
+because it is based=20
+on Discreet EditPatch source code, and we can't distribute this modified =
+source code.
+
+2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked to the 3DSMax SDK (which is not =
+Gnu GPL)=20
+and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone distributing plug-ins in binary =
+form will be in=20
+breach of the Gnu GPL.
+
+In English than means that you shouldn't distribute the plug-ins as =
+binaries.
+You are, of course, free to distribute the source code.
+
+Regards,
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hi,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;The good news:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;We have released the source code of =
+some of our=20
+plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;The sources available are:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL =
+binary meshes,=20
+animations, skeleton etc..&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a =
+3dsmax=20
+PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks =
+in=20
+3dsmax.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;You can find thoses plugins in the CVS =
+tree in=20
+nel/tools/3d/plugins_max&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;The bad news:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;1) One of our plugin, the landscape =
+painter, is not=20
+in this package because it is based &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;on Discreet EditPatch source code, and =
+we can't=20
+distribute this modified source code.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked =
+to the 3DSMax=20
+SDK (which is not Gnu GPL) &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone =
+distributing=20
+plug-ins in binary form will be in &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;breach of the Gnu GPL.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;In English than means that you =
+shouldn't distribute=20
+the plug-ins as binaries.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;You are, of course, free to distribute =
+the source=20
+code.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Regards,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;
+&lt;P class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT color=3Dblack face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+style=3D&quot;COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt&quot;&gt;Cyril=20
+Corvazier&lt;BR&gt;Lead 3d programmer&lt;BR&gt;Nevrax =
+France&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html
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index 00000000..ff93dba5
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html
@@ -0,0 +1,107 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000411.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000412.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:15:17 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Brenden Towey:
+&gt;<i> From: Vincent Archer &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; bytes of the MD5 digest.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Would #3 solve the login &amp; password hacking problem?
+</I>
+More or less. However, most of the hacking problems I've seen these days
+on MMOGs do not involve a spoofed server or anything else. They're all
+revolving around:
+
+1) A scam aimed at getting your login and password
+	(we have this incredible powerleveling service. Send us $30 and
+	 your password and we'll have you level 50 in a month)
+
+2) A trojan (last one on EQ pretending to be an 'undetectable macro
+   program') that intercept the login/password pair when you *type them*.
+
+Still, it doesn't hurt to make a MD5 challenge. If someone can spoof
+you into believing you're talking to the server, the usual crypto layer
+that protects your connection against sniffing will not protect your
+password (something some web designers conveniently forget, saying that
+once you're using https:// urls, you can send you password in clear to
+the web).
+
+&gt;<i> &gt;serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Ok, I don't understand this.  Why would one person or company want to do
+</I>&gt;<i> this?  What's the advantage to having a login service in one location and a
+</I>&gt;<i> world service in another?  Why not just co-locate all your services behind
+</I>&gt;<i> one firewall?
+</I>
+Bandwidth/Lag/Security issues.
+
+Bandwidth is the first, and usually the less important one. But when you
+start talking multiple OC12 links for your bandwidth consumption, you
+quickly have limits on where you can locate your worlds. It is a lot easier
+to negociate several locations with OC4 for each than say &quot;I need a place
+with two OC12&quot;.
+
+Lag is another one. All the world is not the states... tell it to the Aussies
+who ranted and screamed till they finally got one Ultima Online server
+down under. We're doing our best to make lag irrelevant, but given the
+choice of playing on a server with 500 ms ping and a server with 100 ms
+ping times... The experience with the latter will always be a *lot*
+smoother.
+
+And finally security. Not network security, I'm talking real security.
+Despite every premium paid, what happens if your server room catches
+fire, and despite generous smothering of Halon, all your servers are
+burnt to a nice crispy taste? Sure, the insurance will pay you lots of
+money. But your players will no longer be there.
+
+Spreading your servers around makes sense on several points.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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+     <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-April Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
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+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr  5 18:19:11 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 22<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="398"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="402"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="407"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="413"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="392"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="393"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="410"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="412"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="408"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="400"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="403"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="404"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="396"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="397"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="409"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="411"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="395"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="401"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="405"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="406"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="394"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</A> <A NAME="399"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
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+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html
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+     <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-April Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
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+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr  5 18:19:11 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 22<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="392"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="393"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="394"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="395"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="396"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="397"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="398"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</A> <A NAME="399"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="400"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="402"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="401"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="403"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="404"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="407"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="405"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="408"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="406"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="409"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="410"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="411"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="412"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="413"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
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+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html
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+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-April Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
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+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr  5 18:19:11 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 22<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00986487551- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="1302"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<!--0 00986491457- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="1303"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<!--0 00986741273- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1304"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00986741273-00986831573- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1305"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1306"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461-00986909706- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1308"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00986741273-00986886108- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1307"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00986741273-00986886108-00986938501- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</A> <A NAME="1309"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987126558- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1310"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00987126558-00987180085- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1311"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987150893- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1312"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00987150893-00987447583- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1313"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00987150893-00987447583-00987499633- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1317"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00987150893-00987485611- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1314"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987523099- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="1315"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00987531003- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1318"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00987531003-00987681325- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1319"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00987531003-00987681325-00987782763- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1320"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987609548- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="1316"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00988294812- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1321"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00988294812-00988380917- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1323"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00988304204- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="1322"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
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+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
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+     <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-April Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr  5 18:19:11 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 22<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="412"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="402"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="403"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="404"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="407"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="411"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="413"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="406"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="405"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="393"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="408"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="409"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="410"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="400"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="401"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="392"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</A> <A NAME="399"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="394"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="395"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="396"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="397"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="398"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..25407f43
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,110 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-April Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr  5 18:19:11 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 22<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00986487551- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="1302"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<!--0 00986491457- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="1303"></A><I>Brandon</I>
+<!--0 00986741273- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1304"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00986741273-00986831573- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1305"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1306"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461-00986909706- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1308"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00986741273-00986886108- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1307"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00986741273-00986886108-00986938501- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about,
+ right?</A> <A NAME="1309"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987126558- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1310"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00987126558-00987180085- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1311"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987150893- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1312"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00987150893-00987447583- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1313"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00987150893-00987447583-00987499633- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1317"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00987150893-00987485611- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1314"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987523099- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="1315"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00987531003- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1318"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00987531003-00987681325- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1319"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00987531003-00987681325-00987782763- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1320"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00987609548- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="1316"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00988294812- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1321"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00988294812-00988380917- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1323"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00988304204- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="1322"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/000580.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/000580.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..46a83afb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/000580.html
@@ -0,0 +1,116 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Fw: NeL compile error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:vizerie%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000581.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000583.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Fw: NeL compile error</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Vizerie</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:vizerie%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Fw: NeL compile error">vizerie@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:03:39 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000581.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000583.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#580">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#580">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#580">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#580">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+----- Original Message -----=20
+From: Nicolas Vizerie=20
+To: <A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>=20
+Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:32 PM
+Subject: NeL compile error
+
+
+Hello,=20
+
+The compile error that you reported has been fixed. You can update your =
+file.
+Thanks for reporting it!
+
+
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2920.0&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;----- Original Message -----=20
+&lt;DIV style=3D&quot;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;From:&lt;/B&gt; &lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:vizerie@nevrax.com">vizerie@nevrax.com</A>&quot; title=<A HREF="mailto:3Dvizerie@nevrax.com">3Dvizerie@nevrax.com</A>&gt;Nicolas =
+Vizerie&lt;/A&gt;=20
+&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;B&gt;To:&lt;/B&gt; &lt;A href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>&quot;=20
+title=<A HREF="mailto:3Dzane@supernova.org">3Dzane@supernova.org</A>&gt;<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;B&gt;Sent:&lt;/B&gt; Friday, August 24, 2001 5:32 PM&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;B&gt;Subject:&lt;/B&gt; NeL compile error&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hello, &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;The compile error that you reported has =
+been fixed.=20
+You can update your file.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Thanks&amp;nbsp;for reporting =
+it!&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Nicolas Vizerie&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000581.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000583.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#580">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#580">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#580">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#580">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9aaa5d50
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-August Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-August Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Aug  7 19:05:28 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 46<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000527.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="527"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?alex?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000577.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="577"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000593.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="593"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000522.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="522"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000597.html">[Nel] Unsubscribe me, please [eom]</A> <A NAME="597"></A><I>Pam Curtis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000574.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="574"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000589.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="589"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000590.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="590"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000592.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="592"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000576.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="576"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000587.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="587"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000596.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="596"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000528.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="528"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000531.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="531"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000591.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="591"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000567.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="567"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000583.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="583"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000588.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="588"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000575.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="575"></A><I>Nick Rathke</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000569.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="569"></A><I>Ratskindid@aol.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000568.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="568"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000586.html">Re[2]: [Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="586"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000581.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="581"></A><I>cyril Thibout</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000523.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="523"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000524.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="524"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000525.html">[Nel] Configure's options</A> <A NAME="525"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000532.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="532"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000533.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="533"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000578.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="578"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000579.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="579"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000584.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="584"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000585.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="585"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000594.html">[Nel] Daily snapshots</A> <A NAME="594"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000595.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="595"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000580.html">[Nel] Fw: NeL compile error</A> <A NAME="580"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000582.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="582"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000519.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="519"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000520.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="520"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000521.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="521"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000526.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="526"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000530.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="530"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000570.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="570"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000571.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="571"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000572.html">[Nel] NeL One more Linux compile problem</A> <A NAME="572"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000573.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="573"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000529.html">[Nel] An E-mail account for 2 years, 5 years, for life ? Avenger Mail System is for you !</A> <A NAME="529"></A><I>ams@freesoft4all.com</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8e2f7e1f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-August Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-August Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Aug  7 19:05:28 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 46<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000519.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="519"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000520.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="520"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000521.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="521"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000522.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="522"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000523.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="523"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000524.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="524"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000525.html">[Nel] Configure's options</A> <A NAME="525"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000526.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="526"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000527.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="527"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?alex?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000528.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="528"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000529.html">[Nel] An E-mail account for 2 years, 5 years, for life ? Avenger Mail System is for you !</A> <A NAME="529"></A><I>ams@freesoft4all.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000530.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="530"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000531.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="531"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000532.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="532"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000533.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="533"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000569.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="569"></A><I>Ratskindid@aol.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000567.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="567"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000568.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="568"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000570.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="570"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000571.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="571"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000572.html">[Nel] NeL One more Linux compile problem</A> <A NAME="572"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000573.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="573"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000574.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="574"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000575.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="575"></A><I>Nick Rathke</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000576.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="576"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000577.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="577"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000578.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="578"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000579.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="579"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000580.html">[Nel] Fw: NeL compile error</A> <A NAME="580"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000581.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="581"></A><I>cyril Thibout</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000582.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="582"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000583.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="583"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000584.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="584"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000585.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="585"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000586.html">Re[2]: [Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="586"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000587.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="587"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000588.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="588"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000589.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="589"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000590.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="590"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000591.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="591"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000592.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="592"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000593.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="593"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000594.html">[Nel] Daily snapshots</A> <A NAME="594"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000595.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="595"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000596.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="596"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000597.html">[Nel] Unsubscribe me, please [eom]</A> <A NAME="597"></A><I>Pam Curtis</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7081d0e7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-August Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-August Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Aug  7 19:05:28 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 46<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000529.html">[Nel] An E-mail account for 2 years, 5 years, for life ? Avenger Mail System is for you !</A> <A NAME="529"></A><I>ams@freesoft4all.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000525.html">[Nel] Configure's options</A> <A NAME="525"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000594.html">[Nel] Daily snapshots</A> <A NAME="594"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000580.html">[Nel] Fw: NeL compile error</A> <A NAME="580"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000570.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="570"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000577.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="577"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000572.html">[Nel] NeL One more Linux compile problem</A> <A NAME="572"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000526.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="526"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000528.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="528"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000530.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="530"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000531.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="531"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000532.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="532"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000571.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="571"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000579.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="579"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000569.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="569"></A><I>Ratskindid@aol.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000567.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="567"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000568.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="568"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000573.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="573"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000574.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="574"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000575.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="575"></A><I>Nick Rathke</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000576.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="576"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000578.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="578"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000581.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="581"></A><I>cyril Thibout</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000521.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="521"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000522.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="522"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000582.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="582"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000584.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="584"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000587.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="587"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000588.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="588"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000595.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="595"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000596.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="596"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000583.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="583"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000585.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="585"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000589.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="589"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000590.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="590"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000591.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="591"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000592.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="592"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000593.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="593"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000519.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="519"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000520.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="520"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000523.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="523"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000524.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="524"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000527.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="527"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?alex?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000533.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="533"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000597.html">[Nel] Unsubscribe me, please [eom]</A> <A NAME="597"></A><I>Pam Curtis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000586.html">Re[2]: [Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="586"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a932c322
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,169 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-August Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-August Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Aug  7 19:05:28 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 46<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00997203928- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000519.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="1429"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00997203928-00997208125- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000520.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="1430"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00997203928-00997208125-00997264347- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000524.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="1434"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00997203928-00997263814- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000523.html">[Nel] STLPort, again. :)</A> <A NAME="1433"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00997218654- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000521.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="1431"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00997218654-00997252440- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000522.html">[Nel] Small bug in coarse_mesh_manager.h</A> <A NAME="1432"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00997373328- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000525.html">[Nel] Configure's options</A> <A NAME="1435"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00997463931- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000526.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="1436"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00997463931-00997865136- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000528.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="1438"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000530.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="1440"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803-00997890137- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000531.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="1441"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803-00997965031- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000532.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="1442"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803-00997965031-00998584739- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000570.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="1480"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803-00997965031-00998584739-00998635595- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000577.html">[Nel] NeL Compile Error - Patch</A> <A NAME="1487"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<!--3 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803-00997965031-00998585554- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000571.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="1481"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803-00997965031-00998585554-00998645656- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000579.html">[Nel] NeLNS compilation problems</A> <A NAME="1489"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00997463931-00997865136-00997888803-00997965031-00998587276- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000572.html">[Nel] NeL One more Linux compile problem</A> <A NAME="1482"></A><I>Zane</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00997564204- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000527.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="1437"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?alex?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00997564204-00997968820- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000533.html">[Nel] This isnt really the place but</A> <A NAME="1443"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00997878714- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000529.html">[Nel] An E-mail account for 2 years, 5 years, for life ? Avenger Mail System is for you !</A> <A NAME="1439"></A><I>ams@freesoft4all.com</I>
+<!--0 00998530098- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000569.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1479"></A><I>Ratskindid@aol.com</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00998530098-00998552378- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000567.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1477"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--1 00998530098-00998553296- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000568.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1478"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--1 00998530098-00998594989- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000573.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1483"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00998530098-00998594989-00998645051- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000578.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1488"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00998530098-00998601921- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000574.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1484"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--1 00998530098-00998617795- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000575.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1485"></A><I>Nick Rathke</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00998530098-00998617795-00998625962- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000576.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1486"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<!--2 00998530098-00998617795-00998869422- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000582.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="1492"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00998530098-00998617795-00998869422-00999011198- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000584.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="1494"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00998530098-00998617795-00998869422-00999011198-00999012418- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000586.html">Re[2]: [Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="1496"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00998530098-00998617795-00998869422-00999011198-00999012418-00999013345- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000587.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="1497"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<!--3 00998530098-00998617795-00998869422-00999011198-00999012418-00999013345-00999016559- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000588.html">[Nel] snowballs 2</A> <A NAME="1498"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00998530098-00998758532- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000581.html">[Nel] Questions about NeL use.</A> <A NAME="1491"></A><I>cyril Thibout</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00998665419- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000580.html">[Nel] Fw: NeL compile error</A> <A NAME="1490"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<!--0 00998875985- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000583.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="1493"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00998875985-00999012234- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000585.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="1495"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00998875985-00999012234-00999042790- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000589.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="1499"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00998875985-00999012234-00999042790-00999043153- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000590.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="1500"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--3 00998875985-00999012234-00999042790-00999043153-00999068787- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000591.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="1501"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00998875985-00999012234-00999042790-00999043153-00999068787-00999085600- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000592.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="1502"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--3 00998875985-00999012234-00999042790-00999043153-00999095845- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000593.html">[Nel] STL Port yet again.</A> <A NAME="1503"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00999106447- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000594.html">[Nel] Daily snapshots</A> <A NAME="1504"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00999106450- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000595.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="1505"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00999106450-00999107082- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000596.html">[Nel] Snowballs available (at least)</A> <A NAME="1506"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00999106450-00999107082-00999107295- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000597.html">[Nel] Unsubscribe me, please [eom]</A> <A NAME="1507"></A><I>Pam Curtis</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f76b8332
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000773.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:21:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000773.html">[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#772">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#772">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#772">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#772">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Vincent,
+
+I would like to thank you for your help and your advises regarding the mouse
+interface.
+
+Yes you're right, the best mouse implementation should use the mickey mode.
+A second implementation of the Events Emitter is planed in a near future.
+This will introduce new messages for all the input interfaces including
+mickey messages using Directinput and Dga.
+After this work, the client side code could be modified to virtualise the
+input regarding the user configuration.
+For the time, the one we use is only based on win32 and xlib basic messages
+so, it is not very smart. Sorry for this.
+
+Be sure we want a NeL Gnu/Linux implementation as good as possible. :-)
+Thanks again for your help.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000773.html">[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#772">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#772">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#772">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#772">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..af936f1c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html
@@ -0,0 +1,544 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:hubbster%40online.no">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000772.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000774.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)</H1>
+    <B>Stein Arve Berge</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:hubbster%40online.no"
+       TITLE="[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)">hubbster@online.no</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:42:18 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000772.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000774.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#773">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#773">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#773">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#773">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Creating temporary file &quot;C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp&quot; =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D &quot;_MBCS&quot; /D &quot;_LIB&quot; /D &quot;WIN32&quot; /D =
+&quot;NDEBUG&quot; /D &quot;NL_RELEASE_DEBUG&quot; /Fp&quot;ReleaseDebug/misc.pch&quot; /YX =
+/Fo&quot;ReleaseDebug/&quot; /Fd&quot;ReleaseDebug/&quot; /FD /c=20
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_re=
+gistry.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp=
+&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stre=
+am.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.c=
+pp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.c=
+pp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cp=
+p&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp=
+&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp=
+&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.c=
+pp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h=
+.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.=
+cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.yacc.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_li=
+stener.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_se=
+rver.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.c=
+pp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_even=
+t_emitter.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.=
+cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id=
+.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cp=
+p&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displaye=
+r.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp=
+&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp&quot;=
+
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cp=
+p&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp=
+&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp=
+&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_pt=
+r.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_i=
+nfo.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_man=
+ager.cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.=
+cpp&quot;
+&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_thre=
+ad.cpp&quot;
+]
+Creating command line &quot;cl.exe =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp&quot;=20
+Creating temporary file &quot;C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp&quot; =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /out:&quot;../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib&quot;=20
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mem_stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\matrix.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rect.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector_h.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_id.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\displayer.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mutex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\task_manager.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_thread.obj
+]
+Creating command line &quot;link.exe -lib =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp&quot;
+
+Output Window
+
+Compiling...
+class_registry.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_reg=
+istry.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No such file or directory
+file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+such file or directory
+mem_stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_strea=
+m.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': No such file or directory
+stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/stream.h': No such file or directory
+matrix.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/matrix.h': No such file or directory
+plane.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': =
+No such file or directory
+quat.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rect.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+such file or directory
+vector.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector.h': No such file or directory
+vector_h.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No such file or directory
+vectord.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vectord.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_fi=
+le\config_file.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.yacc.cpp
+config_file.yacc(14) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file or directory
+event_listener.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_lis=
+tener.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No such file or directory
+event_server.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_ser=
+ver.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_server.h': No such file or directory
+events.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+win_event_emitter.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event=
+_emitter.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+bit_set.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No such file or directory
+class_id.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_id.h': No such file or directory
+debug.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': =
+No such file or directory
+displayer.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp(32) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+i18n.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(=
+31) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+such file or directory
+log.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(3=
+1) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/displayer.h': No such file or directory
+mutex.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+path.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rgba.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+such file or directory
+smart_ptr.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr=
+.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': No such file or directory
+system_info.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_in=
+fo.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+task_manager.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_mana=
+ger.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No such file or directory
+time_nl.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+win_thread.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_threa=
+d.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+
+
+
+Results
+
+snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+
+yes im a newbie =3D)
+
+Feel free to mail me back : <A HREF="mailto:hubbster@online.no">hubbster@online.no</A>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;Creating temporary file=20
+&quot;C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp&quot; with =
+contents&lt;BR&gt;[&lt;BR&gt;/nologo /MD=20
+/W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D &quot;_MBCS&quot; /D &quot;_LIB&quot; /D &quot;WIN32&quot; /D &quot;NDEBUG&quot; /D=20
+&quot;NL_RELEASE_DEBUG&quot; /Fp&quot;ReleaseDebug/misc.pch&quot; /YX /Fo&quot;ReleaseDebug/&quot;=20
+/Fd&quot;ReleaseDebug/&quot; /FD /c=20
+&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\clas=
+s_registry.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\ne=
+l\src\misc\file.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\sno=
+wballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\t=
+est\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.c=
+om\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanpara=
+dox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urba=
+nparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\=
+vectord.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\s=
+rc\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\tes=
+t\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.yacc.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_listen=
+er.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\mi=
+sc\event_server.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\events.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox=
+.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urb=
+anparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc=
+\i18n.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src=
+\misc\log.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel=
+\src\misc\mutex.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg=
+\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.=
+com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp&quot;=
+&lt;BR&gt;&quot;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_=
+thread.cpp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;]&lt;BR&gt;Creating=20
+command line &quot;cl.exe @C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp&quot; =
+&lt;BR&gt;Creating=20
+temporary file &quot;C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp&quot; with=20
+contents&lt;BR&gt;[&lt;BR&gt;/nologo /out:&quot;../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib&quot;=20
+&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\Rel=
+easeDebug\mem_stream.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\m=
+atrix.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\Rel=
+easeDebug\rect.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\vector_=
+h.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj&lt;BR&gt;=
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj=
+&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj=
+&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\Rel=
+easeDebug\win_event_emitter.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\Releas=
+eDebug\class_id.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\display=
+er.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseD=
+ebug\mutex.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj&lt;BR&gt;.=
+\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\Releas=
+eDebug\task_manager.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj&lt;BR&gt;.\ReleaseDebug\w=
+in_thread.obj&lt;BR&gt;]&lt;BR&gt;Creating command line &quot;link.exe -lib=20
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;
+&lt;H3&gt;Output Window&lt;/H3&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Compiling...&lt;BR&gt;class_registry.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmor=
+pg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_registry.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+</I>'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;file.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;mem_stream.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': =
+</I>No such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;stream.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/stream.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;matrix.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/matrix.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;plane.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;quat.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;rect.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;vector.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;vector_h.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;vectord.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\vectord.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vectord.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;config_file.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or directory&lt;BR&gt;config_file.yacc.cpp&lt;BR&gt;config_file.yacc(14) : =
+fatal error=20
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file =
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;event_listener.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\event_listener.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+</I>'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;event_server.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\event_server.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+</I>'nel/misc/event_server.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;events.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\events.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;win_event_emitter.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\s=
+nowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;bit_set.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;class_id.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/class_id.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;debug.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;displayer.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\displayer.cpp(32)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;i18n.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(31)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;log.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clien=
+t\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(31)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/displayer.h': =
+</I>No such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;mutex.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;path.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;rgba.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+</I>such file=20
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;smart_ptr.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': =
+</I>No such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;system_info.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;task_manager.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+</I>'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;time_nl.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;win_thread.cpp&lt;BR&gt;E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\win_thread.cpp(26)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+</I>such=20
+file or directory&lt;BR&gt;Error executing cl.exe.&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;H3&gt;Results&lt;/H3&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;yes im a newbie =3D)&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Feel free to mail me back : &lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:hubbster@online.no">hubbster@online.no</A>&quot;&gt;<A HREF="mailto:hubbster@online.no">hubbster@online.no</A>&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B=
+ODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000772.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000774.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#773">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#773">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#773">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#773">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7dbcce98
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html
@@ -0,0 +1,77 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Landscape Building problems</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:legros%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000776.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000777.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Landscape Building problems</H1>
+    <B>Benjamin Legros</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:legros%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscape Building problems">legros@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:28:50 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000776.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#775">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#775">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#775">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#775">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+From: &quot;Róbert Bjarnason&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@in-orbit.net">robert@in-orbit.net</A>&gt;
+
+&gt;<i> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+</I>&gt;<i> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+</I>&gt;<i> with /goto.
+</I>
+
+According to the log file, it seems that the build process crashes at the
+tessellation pass :
+
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1186 : setup zone tessellation
+2306 10_AC
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1447 : Compute landscape
+tessellation
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1450 :    - load tile bank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 WRN 1928 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: Path
+not found for warpstorm.smallbank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 241 : Total Span : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 242 : Total SpanList : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 325 : total computation time: 0 days, 0
+hours, 0 minutes and 0 seconds
+
+The builder doesn't find a path to the file 'warpstorm.smallbank'
+It should be located somewhere with the tile files...
+
+
+Benjamin.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000776.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#775">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#775">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#775">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#775">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..5a694ddc
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Landscape Building problems</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscape Building problems">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:37:05 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Róbert, nice to see you again on the list :-)
+
+&gt;<i> When I run the client with our landscape the far textures
+</I>&gt;<i> look all strange, the landscape appears and disappears when
+</I>&gt;<i> I move around using /goto.
+</I>
+Perhaps it is the thread loading process that make some times to load new
+zones when you use /goto.
+
+&gt;<i> I also never see the near textures.
+</I>
+If you see arraws, it means the bitmap files are not found.
+Are you sure tiles are in a path directory of the client ?
+Can you check that your client use .dds tiles and not .tga tiles ? ( use
+CTileBank::makeAllExtensionDDS () )
+
+&gt;<i> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+</I>&gt;<i> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+</I>&gt;<i> with /goto.
+</I>
+I will ask my coworkers for this.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..95614756
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html
@@ -0,0 +1,122 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Feedback</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:arnaud.bienvenu%40via.ecp.fr">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Feedback</H1>
+    <B>Arnaud Bienvenu</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:arnaud.bienvenu%40via.ecp.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Feedback">arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:00:41 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000775.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000798.html">[Nel] Feedback</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Good morning,
+
+I just tried to compile and run nel/snowballs2 from today's CVS source under
+Linux Redhat 7.2. First I had to apply two tiny patches (see below), and
+then, trying to run snowballs :
+
+WRN 3133 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.soh: shared object not open
+WRN 3133 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+
+Thank you for your attention,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.58
+diff -u -r1.58 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	6 Dec 2001 17:03:03 -0000	1.58
++++ nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	10 Dec 2001 09:55:52 -0000
+@@ -180,11 +180,14 @@
+                        transformable_user.h \
+                        trav_scene.h \
+                        vegetable.h \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.h \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.h \
+                        vegetable_def.h \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.h \
+                        vegetable_manager.h \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.h \
+                        vegetable_shape.h \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.h \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.h \
+                        vertex_buffer.h \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.h \
+@@ -369,11 +372,14 @@
+                        transformable.cpp \
+                        transformable_user.cpp \
+                        vegetable.cpp \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.cpp \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.cpp \
+                        vegetable_def.cpp \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.cpp \
+                        vegetable_manager.cpp \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.cpp \
+                        vegetable_shape.cpp \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.cpp \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.cpp \
+
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 ps_mesh.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	6 Dec 2001 16:51:49 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	10 Dec 2001 10:02:31 -0000
+@@ -840,7 +840,7 @@
+ 
+ //====================================================================================
+ // Private func used to force modulation on a material and to store the preious state
+-static inline ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &amp;destMat, CMaterial &amp;srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
++static inline void ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &amp;destMat, CMaterial &amp;srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
+ {
+ 	for (uint k = 0; k &lt; IDRV_MAT_MAXTEXTURES; ++k)
+ 	{		
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..6c741dea
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html
@@ -0,0 +1,69 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit</H1>
+    <B>Kai Schutte</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:skander%40WPI.EDU"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit">skander@WPI.EDU</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:13:32 -0500 (EST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000821.html">[Nel] Feedback</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+I'm trying to compile nel and snowballs, I've passed most hurdles, but
+this one is sticking...
+
+While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+
+ps_util.cpp
+D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+to specify a higher limit
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+
+Can I get a hint?
+
+thanks,
+
+-Kai
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e1c62a26
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:13:57 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000778.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000780.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+I had the same error yesterday. I have added the /Zm200 option in 3d.dsp and
+it seams to work. It should be on the CVS now.
+Big values passed to /Zm option lead to a visual crash.. /Zm100 is the
+default value (100% the default heap size)
+/Zm2000 is 2000% the default heap size ! :-)
+
+Thanks for the feedback,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+&gt;<i> While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+</I>&gt;<i> C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ps_util.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+</I>&gt;<i> fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+</I>&gt;<i> to specify a higher limit
+</I>&gt;<i> Error executing cl.exe.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+</I>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..864d8380
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
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+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000782.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>12 Dec 2001 14:17:24 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000780.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000782.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Wed, 2001-12-12 at 13:03, <A HREF="mailto:nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com">nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> I would to know what is the position of Nel (the
+</I>&gt;<i> graphic part) compare to SDL.
+</I>
+Something like 3 abstraction levels above SDL :)
+SDL is a low-level programming framework, while NeL is rather a
+high-level toolkit for game development. I guess the Nevrax guys will
+just ask you to read the doc (at least its outline) if you want to grasp
+the idea ... <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..309a0fd5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html
@@ -0,0 +1,153 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000781.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)</H1>
+    <B>Kai Schutte</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:skander%40skander.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)">skander@skander.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:59:01 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000781.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,=20
+
+I got the 3d lib to compile. I was using the =
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under code\nel\nel.dsw.
+
+Okay, I got one more problem, and it seems to be associated with =
+&lt;GL/glext.h&gt; stuff...=20
+I downloaded and installed the &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; file from the SGI site.
+compiler output:
+
+driver_opengl.cpp
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+:<i> error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+</I>'glActiveTextureARB'
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+:<i> fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+</I>(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+
+at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; entry at line 1620:=20
+typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+I would suppose that this is some sort of precompile error... I've tried =
+changing little things in the vacinity, but everything I did just =
+generated more compile errors.=20
+
+Have you bumped into this problem?=20
+
+thanks,=20
+-Kai
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3018.900&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hi, &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I got the 3d lib to compile. I was =
+using the=20
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under =
+code\nel\nel.dsw.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Okay, I got one more problem, and it =
+seems to be=20
+associated with &amp;lt;GL/glext.h&amp;gt; stuff... &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I downloaded and installed the =
+&amp;lt;GL/glext.h&amp;gt;=20
+file from the SGI site.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;compiler output:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2&gt;driver_opengl.cpp&lt;BR&gt;D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+:<i> error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+</I>'glActiveTextureARB'&lt;BR&gt;D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT =
+</I>face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2&gt;(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+glActiveTextureARB;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;which refers to a &amp;lt;GL/glext.h&amp;gt; =
+entry at line=20
+1620: &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;typedef void (APIENTRY * =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)=20
+(GLenum texture);&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I would suppose that this is some sort =
+of=20
+precompile error... I've tried changing little things in the vacinity, =
+but=20
+everything I did just generated more compile errors. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Have you bumped into this problem? =
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;thanks, &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;-Kai&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..bfc50235
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html
@@ -0,0 +1,153 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000782.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000784.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:18:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000782.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000784.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#783">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#783">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Kai,
+
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+:<i> error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+</I>'glActiveTextureARB'
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+:<i> fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+</I>  (repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+  =20
+  at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+I compile without any kind of problem with the current &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; file =
+available on the SGI site. (GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D 7)
+Please make sure you have included the good file. If it is not the =
+problem, don't hesitate to post again.
+
+  which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; entry at line 1620:=20
+  typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+
+I have the same definition at the same line, and it is the only one.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hi Kai,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D&quot;BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial=20
+  =
+size=3D2&gt;driver_opengl.cpp&lt;BR&gt;D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+  =
+'glActiveTextureARB'&lt;BR&gt;D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2&gt;(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  &lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;extern =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+  glActiveTextureARB;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I compile without any kind of problem =
+with the=20
+current &amp;lt;GL/glext.h&amp;gt; file available on the SGI site. =
+(GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D=20
+7)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Please make sure you have included the =
+good file.=20
+If it is not the problem, don't hesitate to post=20
+again.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D&quot;BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;which refers to a &amp;lt;GL/glext.h&amp;gt; =
+entry at=20
+  line 1620: &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;typedef void (APIENTRY *=20
+  PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I have the same definition at the same =
+line, and it=20
+is the only one.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Regards,&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Cyril&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b3012849
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:psiegel%40geneticanomalies.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000783.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000786.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</H1>
+    <B>Paul Siegel</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:psiegel%40geneticanomalies.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">psiegel@geneticanomalies.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:14:17 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000783.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000786.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#784">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi everyone -
+
+I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+Paul
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..19fcdd26
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Gamer question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:froggy%40froggycorp.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000789.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000787.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>froggy@froggycorp.com</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:froggy%40froggycorp.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">froggy@froggycorp.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:33:36 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000789.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000787.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#785">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#785">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the 
+game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+
++
+
+PS : Little hello to the demoscene people who work in 
+nevrax ;) (Ace, Hulud, and all i forgot)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000789.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..815bdcc7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000784.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000818.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</H1>
+    <B>Tony Hoyt</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">ahoyt@packetport.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:41:20 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000784.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000818.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#786">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#786">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Paul Siegel wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi everyone -
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+</I>&gt;<i> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+</I>&gt;<i> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+</I>&gt;<i> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+</I>
+  Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor. 
+I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+  Tony
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..625f315b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Gamer question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000785.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000788.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Tony Hoyt</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">ahoyt@packetport.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:44:01 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000785.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000788.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#787">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#787">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE><A HREF="mailto:froggy@froggycorp.com">froggy@froggycorp.com</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+</I>&gt;<i> game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+</I>
+  I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+  Tony
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4406639a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html
@@ -0,0 +1,72 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Gamer question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40mediacom.it">
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+ </HEAD>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40mediacom.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:08:09 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000787.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> &gt; The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>   I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+</I>&gt;<i> Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+</I>&gt;<i> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+</I>&gt;<i> question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+</I>&gt;<i> the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+</I>&gt;<i> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+</I>
+You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses NEL.
+But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make them
+public.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)
+My Lab (<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b2e64aea
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html
@@ -0,0 +1,100 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000824.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:13:03 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000824.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Paul,
+
+&gt;<i> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+</I>&gt;<i> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+</I>&gt;<i> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+</I>&gt;<i> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+</I>
+The NeL 3d library has several user level.
+
+Using the user interface (all u_headers.h in the 3d lib) of the library, you
+can only
+load and display a landscape. This level is used by the game developper to
+abstract
+the game engine from the technology implementation.
+
+Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+quilckly create patches and
+landscape zones. It is really simple to export some bezier quad patches from
+Blender
+(does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small plugin.
+Simple C++ classes
+are provided to &quot;Builb&quot; the &quot;.zone&quot; c++ objects. Then serialisation is used
+to save them
+in binary files.
+
+The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles, vertex
+color and
+displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At nevrax, this is done by
+the artists using
+a 3dsmax plugin (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+generate
+the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why not, a blender
+painter plugin...
+You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+landscape is not trivial at all.
+If you are short on time, a good solution is to generate painting, as most
+of the heightfield
+landscapes do.
+
+The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+stay the same
+as far as you generate &quot;.zone&quot; files.
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Paul
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0bd65565
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:23:47 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Valerio,
+
+&gt;<i> You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+</I>NEL.
+&gt;<i> But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+</I>them
+&gt;<i> public.
+</I>
+No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+
+NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+
+In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+of your program under
+the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000793.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+</I>&gt;<i> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  
+</I>
+Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+
+Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers 
+team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+
+&gt;<i> Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+</I>&gt;<i> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+</I>
+At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+NeL, you have to release your source code.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40mediacom.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:42:53 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000791.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:corvazier@nevrax.com">corvazier@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:30 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers
+</I>&gt;<i> team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+</I>&gt;<i> NeL, you have to release your source code.
+</I>
+Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+client??
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)
+My Lab (<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40mediacom.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">tanis@mediacom.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:44:08 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000790.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:corvazier@nevrax.com">corvazier@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+&gt;<i> &gt; You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+</I>&gt;<i> NEL.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+</I>&gt;<i> them
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; public.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+</I>&gt;<i> of your program under
+</I>&gt;<i> the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+</I>
+
+I was discussing this with Ace a few moments ago. Yes, you're right, I was
+confusing between GPL and LGPL. :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)
+My Lab (<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:54:09 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000812.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+</I>&gt;<i> client??
+</I>
+Yes, as Ryzom client uses GPL source code, we will release its source 
+code too.
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs UDP</H1>
+    <B>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nicolas.boulay%40ifrance.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs UDP">nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:05:28 GMT</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000795.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>In June/Jully, there is a great thread about TCP vs
+UDP. I would like to know where goes the debat.
+
+TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
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+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..52a26d85
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+<HTML>
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs UDP</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs UDP</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs UDP">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:23:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000796.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000799.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#797">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+</I>
+Server to server communication use TCP with 5 NeL layer abstraction (on
+LAN).
+Server to client and client to server communcations use UDP wrapper in NeL
+(CUdpSock).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0cfb4eb8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html
@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Feedback</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000777.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Feedback</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Feedback">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:10:15 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000821.html">[Nel] Feedback</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#798">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Arnaud,
+
+Arnaud Bienvenu wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+</I>&gt;<i> error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+</I>&gt;<i> error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+</I>
+Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+
+&gt;<i> PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+</I>&gt;<i> you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+</I>
+I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+took a look on ii.
+
+If the patches are small you can do it like that, otherwise that will be
+better to have them as attachments.
+
+
+Thanks a lot for your help.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d623050f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:13:33 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000797.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000802.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#799">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Vincent,
+
+I applied your patch.
+
+Thanks a lot for the help,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..05312934
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zen%40lapisonline.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000800.html">
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+   <H1>GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>zen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zen%40lapisonline.com"
+       TITLE="GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question">zen@lapisonline.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000800.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000805.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#801">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Kai,
+
+To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+but it's not obligatory.
+
+Keep up the good work, guys.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Kai Schutte&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:skander@WPI.EDU">skander@WPI.EDU</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Nevrax has that right :)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+</I>&gt;<i> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+</I>probably
+&gt;<i> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+</I>the
+&gt;<i> GPL.
+</I>&gt;<i> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+</I>&gt;<i> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+</I>&quot;secret&quot;
+&gt;<i> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+</I>your
+&gt;<i> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+</I>&gt;<i> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+</I>making
+&gt;<i> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+</I>&gt;<i> public eyes?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Just thinking out loud...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> -Kai
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>J C Lawrence</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:claw%40kanga.nu"
+       TITLE="GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question">claw@kanga.nu</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:54:03 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000802.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000813.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800 
+zen  &lt;<A HREF="mailto:zen@lapisonline.com">zen@lapisonline.com</A>&gt; wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> Hi Kai, To my understanding, you don't have to release the source
+</I>&gt;<i> code if you don't sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may
+</I>&gt;<i> release the code in development, but it's not obligatory.
+</I>
+As soon as you distribute the product, which essentially means that
+you give, transfer, or otherwise provide it to someone else than
+yourself or your development team, you must grant that person full
+access to all the relevant sources.  No more, no less.  The GPL
+infects on distribution and only on distribution.
+
+-- 
+J C Lawrence                
+---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
+<A HREF="mailto:claw@kanga.nu">claw@kanga.nu</A>               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
+<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/">http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/</A>  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html
new file mode 100644
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html
@@ -0,0 +1,115 @@
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000804.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000808.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"
+       TITLE="GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question">archer@frmug.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:52 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000804.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#806">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Kai Schutte:
+&gt;<i> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Nevrax has that right :)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of 
+</I>&gt;<i> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is probably 
+</I>&gt;<i> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit the 
+</I>&gt;<i> GPL. 
+</I>&gt;<i> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore 
+</I>&gt;<i> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom &quot;secret&quot; 
+</I>&gt;<i> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on your 
+</I>&gt;<i> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this 
+</I>&gt;<i> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+</I>
+It is not. A violation that is.
+
+I know the GPL is an awful amount of legalese, and, like any legal-jargon
+document, people chiefly know its intent, and not its phrasing.
+
+But the GPL does not force you to release anything.
+
+What the GPL forces you is that, *if* you release any GPL program/library,
+its sources MUST be available (and describes the minimum requirement for
+this availability, i.e. you can't claim the sources are available but you
+need to come to the Tuvalu Islands, wait 3 months of quarantine, and read
+them on a dot-matrix printer listing with surgical gloves on).
+
+Note the &quot;if&quot;.
+
+As long as *you* don't have a Ryzom client, *you* are not entitled to ask
+for the sources. A company may very well decide to take a GPL piece of
+software, and use it to write a program it uses internally, and no one
+can come up front and ask for that program's sources. If the company
+uses it internally only, the only legal obligation of source disclosure
+is to the people who have the program, i.e. its own employees.
+
+Of course, the example shown above works as long as the program remains
+inside. Other parts of the GPL allow any employee to pick the internal
+programs, use it to write its own GPL variation, and distribute said
+variation outside of the company, distributing the base source in the
+same way, and there's nothing the company could do to prevent exposure.
+
+But, in Nevrax's case, it's not important, since the program will end
+up available to the public, and when it does, the sources will be.
+
+&gt;<i> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby making 
+</I>&gt;<i> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from 
+</I>&gt;<i> public eyes? 
+</I>
+As long as no one outside of Nevrax has Ryzom, the strictures of the GPL
+are respected.
+
+Yeah, I know, we're impatient :)
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"
+       TITLE="GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question">archer@frmug.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:23:21 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000805.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to zen:
+&gt;<i> Hi Kai,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+</I>&gt;<i> sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+</I>&gt;<i> but it's not obligatory.
+</I>
+It's not &quot;sell&quot;, it's &quot;distribute&quot;. Even if you distribute it for free
+on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+source must be available.
+
+A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+
+Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+with the rest of the people out there.
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:30:36 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000806.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+&gt;<i> Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom &quot;secret&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+</I>your
+&gt;<i> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+</I>&gt;<i> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+</I>
+No it isn't. If oneday, we *distribute* Ryzom program and if Ryzom uses a
+GPL library, in this case, we have to give the source of Ryzom. But today,
+we don't distribute Ryzom, so we don't have to give the source. Look the GPL
+licence, it's based on distribution.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Kai Schutte&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:skander@WPI.EDU">skander@WPI.EDU</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Nevrax has that right :)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+</I>&gt;<i> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+</I>probably
+&gt;<i> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+</I>the
+&gt;<i> GPL.
+</I>&gt;<i> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+</I>&gt;<i> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+</I>&quot;secret&quot;
+&gt;<i> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+</I>your
+&gt;<i> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+</I>&gt;<i> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+</I>making
+&gt;<i> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+</I>&gt;<i> public eyes?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Just thinking out loud...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> -Kai
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>zen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zen%40lapisonline.com"
+       TITLE="GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question">zen@lapisonline.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:28:50 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000807.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+<PRE>Thank you guys, for enlightening me 8-).  I neglected the keyword
+'distrubte'.
+
+Zen Jean
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vincent Archer&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:23 PM
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+&gt;<i> According to zen:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Hi Kai,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you
+</I>don't
+&gt;<i> &gt; sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in
+</I>development,
+&gt;<i> &gt; but it's not obligatory.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> It's not &quot;sell&quot;, it's &quot;distribute&quot;. Even if you distribute it for free
+</I>&gt;<i> on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+</I>&gt;<i> source must be available.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+</I>&gt;<i> because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+</I>&gt;<i> Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+</I>&gt;<i> have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+</I>&gt;<i> with the rest of the people out there.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are
+</I>Socrates.
+&gt;<i> (Woody Allen)
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics</H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:52 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000809.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+</I>&gt;<i> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+</I>&gt;<i> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+</I>&gt;<i> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+</I>&gt;<i> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+</I>&gt;<i> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+</I>&gt;<i> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+</I>
+Yes you can use GCC to compile proprietary softwares (else most of
+the playstation, GBA etc..  games are GPL :-) ), only software including 
+GPL code become GPL itself, not the product of GPLed software.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics">archer@frmug.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:41:33 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000811.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Tony Hoyt:
+&gt;<i> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+</I>&gt;<i> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+</I>&gt;<i> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+</I>&gt;<i> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+</I>&gt;<i> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+</I>&gt;<i> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+</I>&gt;<i> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+</I>
+Even though you *used* GCC to build the program, gcc *itself* is in no
+way present in the program you distribute. There's no portion of gcc
+source code or binary in your application. Thus, your program does not
+inherit the licensing from the gcc GPL license.
+
+The only think that gets bundled is the C library. And the C library
+(glibc) is covered by the LGPL, which specifically allows for that case
+(i.e. distributing a program that is linked with a GPL software, without
+ placing the GPL strictures on the program itself).
+
+The same thing would apply to a C grammar parser that was generated
+by bison (the GPL parser generation tool). Using bison to generate your
+C source does not require you to put said source under the GPL: bison
+is not included in your program, only its output (hmmm, is the library
+required for bison LGPL? I think so, but can't remember)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</H1>
+    <B>Paul Siegel</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:psiegel%40geneticanomalies.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">psiegel@geneticanomalies.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:43:24 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+</I>&gt;<i> quilckly create patches and landscape zones. It is really simple to
+</I>&gt;<i> export some bezier quad patches from Blender
+</I>&gt;<i> (does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small
+</I>&gt;<i> plugin. Simple C++ classes are provided to &quot;Builb&quot; the &quot;.zone&quot; c++
+</I>&gt;<i> objects. Then serialisation is used to save them
+</I>&gt;<i> in binary files.
+</I>
+Ok, this will be my first project.  Besides Blender, I'm also looking at
+OpenFX (www.openfx.org).  Unfortunately, I'm a coder not a graphic artist.
+I can't say I'm too learned on how to create bezier patches using either
+program, so I'm going to have to do a bit of research before I even start
+this.  If there are any artists out there with some input (especially
+something like &quot;Blender doesn't support bezier patches&quot;) I'd love to hear
+from you.  Hopefully it shouldn't take too long to make either a file
+translator or some kind of export plugin for one of the apps, once I learn
+how to make the content using one of the aforementioned apps.
+
+&gt;<i> The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles,
+</I>vertex
+&gt;<i> color and displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At
+</I>&gt;<i> nevrax, this is done by the artists using a 3dsmax plugin
+</I>&gt;<i> (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+</I>&gt;<i> generate the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why
+</I>&gt;<i> not, a blender painter plugin...
+</I>
+Right, this will be phase 2.  I was sort of expecting this to be the hard
+part.
+
+&gt;<i> You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+</I>&gt;<i> landscape is not trivial at all.  If you are short on time, a good
+</I>&gt;<i> solution is to generate painting, as most of the heightfield
+</I>&gt;<i> landscapes do.
+</I>
+Can you elaborate on this?  Are you talking about coming up with some kind
+of algorithm to color the geometries instead of using textures?  I don't
+follow.
+
+&gt;<i> The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+</I>&gt;<i> stay the same as far as you generate &quot;.zone&quot; files.
+</I>
+Right, I'm assuming that once the .zone files are generated, I can follow
+the process used with 3DS Max.
+
+Thanks for the feedback Cyril.  It's nice to see how much input the official
+team has on this list.
+
+Paul
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question</H1>
+    <B>Paul Siegel</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:psiegel%40geneticanomalies.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question">psiegel@geneticanomalies.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:52:43 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000813.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of &quot;if
+you distribute&quot;.  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+
+Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+
+Paul
+
+&gt;<i> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+</I>&gt;<i> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+</I>&gt;<i> probably currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom
+</I>&gt;<i> must inherit  the GPL.
+</I>&gt;<i> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+</I>&gt;<i> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;secret&quot; until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put
+</I>food
+&gt;<i> on your plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet,
+</I>isn't
+&gt;<i> this secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+</I>making
+&gt;<i> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+</I>&gt;<i> public eyes?
+</I>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] RE: GPL confusion</H1>
+    <B>Jon Watte</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:hplus%40mindcontrol.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] RE: GPL confusion">hplus@mindcontrol.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:49 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000814.html">[Nel] Gamer question</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Therefore, the current development code is in the public 
+</I>&gt;<i> domain, therefore should be published.
+</I>
+I find two things confusing about this sentence.
+
+1) Something that is under GPL is explicitly NOT in the public 
+domain, as something under the GPL suffers substantially more 
+restrictive licensing than something that is in the public 
+domain. Basically, if it's in the PD, you can do what you want 
+to it, except POSSIBLY not mis-represent the origin. The GPL 
+imposes many more strictures on your use of the code.
+
+2) The GPL only requires that source code is made available 
+free of charge to anyone who purchases binaries, and that no 
+restrictions are made on the purchaser's rights to use that 
+source code (including subsequent redistribution). If Ryzom is 
+not for sale to anyone, then there is no requirement for the 
+developers thereof to make any source code available.
+
+Now, the GPL may have changed slightly since I last read it 
+through in full, but your statement does not seem to be based 
+on the actual language of the GPL.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:29:14 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000825.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>12/14/2001 5:52:43 AM, &quot;Paul Siegel&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:psiegel@geneticanomalies.com">psiegel@geneticanomalies.com</A>&gt; wrote:
+
+&gt;<i>Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of &quot;if
+</I>&gt;<i>you distribute&quot;.  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+</I>&gt;<i>Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+</I>&gt;<i>the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+</I>&gt;<i>use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>thats what's known as the ASP hole (application service provider).  On the one hand it has been used to create money-making websites out of gpl pieces by companies who have never released their code changes.  On the 
+other hand, with a massively multiplayer game there is a lot of server side stuff- rules/ agent experience/ object locations that you may not want to release in the interests of gameplay.  However, most of that type of thing can 
+be abstracted from the core programs and written in a definition or scripting language specific to the game or in some general purpose language like python.  these interpreted programs, stored in some database, can now be 
+considered content and free from gpl obligations.  But that means that even if all the backend source is available, you have a lot of work to do before it does anything useful.
+with a few grey areas in rules (physics?) I think this is as it should be.
+
+michael
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:11:43 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000815.html">[Nel] RE: GPL confusion</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello ....
+
+I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+front ends there is some computers running different services.
+And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all shard
+?)
+
+Clients communicate with one front end of a shard.
+
+But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+or a specific service from NEL ?
+
+The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+NEL ?
+
+If there a description of all NEL services ?
+what is the welcome service ?
+
+sorry for all this questions ....
+bye
+
+--
+Nicolas Hognon
+<A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A>
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+<A HREF="http://www.virtools.com/">http://www.virtools.com/</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</H1>
+    <B>Markus Ewald</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:Markus_Ewald%40gmx.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">Markus_Ewald@gmx.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:02:07 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000786.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+
+&gt;<i> Paul Siegel wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Hi everyone -
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+</I>&gt;<i> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+</I>&gt;<i> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+</I>&gt;<i> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+</I>&gt;<i> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+</I>&gt;<i> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+</I>
+There's also a free landscape modeller at
+-&gt; www.geofrac2000.com
+
+It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of 3dsmax.
+The author discontinued the project and made it available for free, but it's
+still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with the
+raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>   Tony
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+-Markus-
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)</H1>
+    <B>Alexander Denisov</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:denisov%40darkwing.uoregon.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)">denisov@darkwing.uoregon.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:29:15 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+
+I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+
+I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+(and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+
+By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a &quot;green light&quot;
+to hackers? Are there any ways
+somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+hacker
+knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+game in secret
+(though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+
+I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+important question.
+
+By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+it)
+
+Alex
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)</H1>
+    <B>alfred</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:20:56 +1100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I have nothing to do with the nevrax team but I know the answer to this. 
+To put it simply, there is not security in obscurity. The protection 
+isn't in the alogrithm, its in the &quot;secret&quot; that is shared. This axiom 
+has been proved time and again, just look at the troubles windows has 
+with its codebase... The lack of published source code ain't helping them.
+
+I am not sure what security model nel will adopt but there are many to 
+choose from and none suffer from the openness of the protocol. You could 
+sign the client binaries with a public/private key pair. This stops 
+trivial hacks. You would also run a secure game server which does bounds 
+checking on the input, this stops obvious hacking. You can also encrypt 
+the client-&gt;server data stream. Fundamentally you are in trouble because 
+the client is a generalised computing machine which the user has 
+complete control over, if they have the machine code they can crack it, 
+but you can make it damn hard. You can also make any hack shortlived by 
+having dynamic binaries. The open source nature of nel only makes it 
+more secure as any flaws or bugs in the implementation will be spotted 
+and solved, rather than being exploited (many eyes make bugs shallow).
+
+:<i>)
+</I>
+
+
+
+Alexander Denisov wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+</I>&gt;<i> still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+</I>&gt;<i> (and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+</I>&gt;<i> gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a &quot;green light&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> to hackers? Are there any ways
+</I>&gt;<i> somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+</I>&gt;<i> hacker
+</I>&gt;<i> knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+</I>&gt;<i> game in secret
+</I>&gt;<i> (though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+</I>&gt;<i> since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+</I>&gt;<i> important question.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+</I>&gt;<i> it)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Alex
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+<A HREF="mailto:alfred@mazuma.net.au">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Feedback</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000798.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Feedback</H1>
+    <B>Arnaud Bienvenu</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:arnaud.bienvenu%40via.ecp.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Feedback">arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:12:29 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000798.html">[Nel] Feedback</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000778.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thanks for answering Cedric,
+
+On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 07:10:15PM +0100, Cedric Valignat wrote:
+&gt;<i> Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+</I>
+I managed to workaround this problem linking the snowballs 2 client against
+libGL.so (by default, libnel_drv_opengl.so is linked against libGL, but not
+the snowballs 2 client). I do not know if this is a Linux requirement, or
+another bug in RedHat's 7.2 GL librairies. I hope a Linux Guru will give us a
+clue.
+
+By the way, the libICE.soh standing instead of libICE.so is obviously a
+display bug non related to nel, since I could reproduce it from clean trivial
+code.
+
+At last, running the snowballs client, I get this well known error :
+INF 5222 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN 5222 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glSetFenceNV
+WRN 5222 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+I read on this list the problem is due to Fence NV disappearing from
+Mesa-3.4 (which I use), and that the nevrax team is working on it. Is it
+still the case ?
+
+&gt;<i> I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+</I>&gt;<i> took a look on ii.
+</I>
+The patched versions are not yet available from today's CVS head revision, but
+I trust you it's in the pipeline.
+
+Regards,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)</TITLE>
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:07:37 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000822.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably
+ off topic)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000826.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At Nevrax our thoughts run as follows:
+
+Game clients are very easy to reverse engineer or hack on a PC.
+Server/ Client data packets are even easier to hack.
+
+We assume that whether the source code for the client is open or closed, it
+will inevitably be modified.
+
+The only way to avoid cheating is to take all game sensitive decisions
+server-side and to treat client as a kind of dumb terminal. This has
+implications throughout the game design.
+
+For instance, to avoid a hack from making invisible players visible, it is
+up to the servers not to transmit update information for invisible players
+to the clients. This means that invisible players can not make 3d-positional
+noises as this would give an exploitable piece of information.
+
+The front end servers clearly have to be robust too which means that all
+incoming data from the clients is treated with caution - packets containing
+invalid data are simply ignored.
+
+
+In a nutshell - we assume that servers are trustworthy and that clients are
+not.
+
+
+Daniel.
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:13 PM
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question
+(probablyoff topic)
+
+
+There's a bit more than the 'security through obscurity' debate in this
+question. It is actually more a question of trust, or if you prefer,
+_what_ or _who_ needs to be secured ? The game ? The player moves ? The
+server knowledge ?
+
+Eric S. Raymond (with a nice link to Carmack's tought about this) did a
+nice essay, back to the time where 'cheating drivers' (making walls
+transparent) were about to be unveiled for FPS games :
+
+<A HREF="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html">http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html</A>
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000817.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000817.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi nico,
+
+&gt;<i> I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+</I>&gt;<i> If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+</I>&gt;<i> front ends there is some computers running different services.
+</I>&gt;<i> And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all
+</I>shard
+&gt;<i> ?)
+</I>
+Shard is composed of services. There are front end services and back end
+services.
+Client are connected with on front end service and front end services are
+connected with back end services.
+There's only one login service for all shards. The client first connects to
+the login service that checks the validity of the account, after the client
+choose the shard. The login service warn the shard (via welcome service (one
+per shard)) that a new client will come. The welcome service chooses the
+best front end for the client and sends the choosen front end to the login
+service and the login service sends this info to the client. after, the
+client connects to the selected front end and authenticates.
+
+&gt;<i> But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+</I>
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement (try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+&gt;<i> It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+</I>&gt;<i> or a specific service from NEL ?
+</I>
+It s the welcome service that do that.
+
+&gt;<i> The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+</I>&gt;<i> NEL ?
+</I>
+Look the welcome service :-)
+
+&gt;<i> If there a description of all NEL services ?
+</I>
+Look the net part of <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/</A>
+And also try here <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html</A>
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+   </TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] peer to peer ?
+   </H1>
+    <B>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nicolas.boulay%40ifrance.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] peer to peer ?">nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:15:59 GMT</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000823.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--__--__--
+
+Message: 3
+From: &quot;Vianney Lecroart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+load balancing, login service, ....)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Reply-To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+
+&gt;<i> But how clients are balanced between the N front
+</I>ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+(try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+</I>More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+between client (such peer to peer network, or
+distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+could be possible to connect people which interract a
+lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+to the minimum.
+
+Does i smoke too much ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
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+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+   </H1>
+    <B>Paul Siegel
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:psiegel%40geneticanomalies.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:49:45 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>My apologies, I accidentally sent this first to nel-admin.  Guess the
+reply-to of the digest isn't set up to go to the correct place.  Here it is
+again, I hope nobody gets this twice:
+
+Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+Therefore, I've finally settled on the most basic thing I could find, namely
+sPatch.  (<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/getspatch/index.html">http://www.geocities.com/getspatch/index.html</A>).  It is little more
+than a bezier patch editor, but currently that's all I need.  There appears
+to be a more feature rich package based on sPatch called hamaPatch
+(<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/6625/soft10.html">http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/6625/soft10.html</A>), but currently all
+documentation on this is in Japanese and I don't speak the language.
+Perhaps my work can some day be moved to hamaPatch, but for the moment I'm
+sticking with sPatch.  Which means we should be able to generate the zone
+files with sPatch, but will need a seperate piece of software to paint the
+textures (since sPatch doesn't support any kind of texturing).  But I'll
+burn that bridge when I get to it.  ;)
+
+Fortunately, sPatch has good documentation on creating export plugins, and
+I'm well on my way to successfully making one.  I have a couple questions
+though for anyone on this list whi is familiar with the 3D code.
+
+1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to have
+a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use to
+populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these filled
+in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+fill in upon generating a single zone?
+
+2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest way
+to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to see
+if it indeed exported a valid file?
+
+Thanks again everyone for all the help.  This is a great project, and I'm
+having lots of fun playing with it.
+
+Paul
+
+&gt;<i> And more:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://terraform.sourceforge.net/">http://terraform.sourceforge.net/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://ftp.arl.army.mil/brlcad/">http://ftp.arl.army.mil/brlcad/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/">http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Saturday, December 15, 2001, 1:02:07 PM, you wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; Paul Siegel wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; &gt; Hi everyone -
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; &gt; I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio
+</I>&gt;<i> Max.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; &gt; That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; &gt; available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; &gt; rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to
+</I>be
+&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; There's also a free landscape modeller at
+</I>&gt;<i> -&gt;&gt; www.geofrac2000.com
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of
+</I>&gt;<i> 3dsmax.
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; The author discontinued the project and made it available for free,
+</I>but
+&gt;<i> it's
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with
+</I>&gt;<i> the
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;   Tony
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; -Markus-
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> ME&gt; <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+   </H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">corvazier@nevrax.com
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:20:34 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Paul,
+
+&gt;<i> Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+</I>&gt;<i> building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+</I>&gt;<i> aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+</I>
+You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+
+&gt;<i> 1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to
+</I>have
+&gt;<i> a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use
+</I>to
+&gt;<i> populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+</I>&gt;<i> However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+</I>&gt;<i> object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these
+</I>filled
+&gt;<i> in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+</I>&gt;<i> fill in upon generating a single zone?
+</I>
+The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder will
+fill them
+of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to fill the
+CBindInfo.
+
+The patches can be linked those way : (warning ASCII arts in non-constant
+size
+fonts.. :-)  )
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+     3
+   ***
+0 *  * 2
+   ***
+     1
+
+---
+
+There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+---
+
+One patch on another :
+
+**********
+*      *        *
+*  0  *   1   *
+*      *        *
+*      *        *
+**********
+CBindInfo:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1 },
+Edge = { 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 0 },
+Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   2   *
+**********
+Bind info:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2 }, Edge = { 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*      ******
+*      *   2   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   3   *
+*      ******
+*      *   4   *
+**********
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2, Patch 3, Patch 4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 3,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 2,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Note that zone_welder welds automaticaly the zones together but don't
+generate bind info for internal patch linking in a zone.
+It searches for shared vertices in the 2 zones and weld them. Zone_welder
+can perform only 1-1 bind type.
+
+I hope this is understandable, don't hesitate to ask for details.
+
+&gt;<i> 2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest
+</I>way
+&gt;<i> to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+</I>&gt;<i> is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to
+</I>see
+&gt;<i> if it indeed exported a valid file?
+</I>
+You can replace a zone in snowball, or make a simple application to see
+the zone. If you want, i can post a peace of code for a small app.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+   </TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+   </H1>
+    <B>Paul Siegel
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:psiegel%40geneticanomalies.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs">psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:05:16 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Cyril to the rescue again!  (Or do you prefer Hulud?  And if so, will you
+tell me what it means?)  You know, I've gotten slower responses from
+&quot;support&quot; that I pay for.  My thanks again.
+
+&gt;<i> You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+</I>&gt;<i> a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+</I>&gt;<i> vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+</I>
+Hmm, I'm not sure I parse this, but it intrigues me.  Unfortunately, my
+knowledge of height fields is even less than that of bezier patches, the
+latter of which I've only learned as I researched writing this plugin.  What
+do you mean by &quot;the joined vertices&quot;?  Are these the four outer corner
+vertices of a bezier patch?  And what happens to the interiors?
+
+&gt;<i> The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+</I>&gt;<i> runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder
+</I>&gt;<i> will fill them of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to
+</I>fill the
+&gt;<i> CBindInfo.
+</I>
+Thanks, the info was very helpful.  I've coppied it over into a monospaced
+text file, and it all makes sense.  I'm guessing now that the program I've
+been working with is much more simplistic than what you've had to deal with
+(though I guess it doesn't take much to be more simplistic than max!)
+
+The plugin includes the following code with which I can deal:
+
+typedef struct {
+ float x, y, z;
+} SP_Vector;
+
+typedef struct {
+ long v1, v2, v3;
+} SP_Triangle;
+
+typedef struct {
+ SP_Vector ctrlPoints[4][4];
+
+ long  numPoints, numTriangles;
+ SP_Vector *points, *normals;
+ SP_Triangle *triangles;
+} SP_Patch;
+
+void SPExportPatch(SP_Patch *patch)
+{
+ /* This function is called for each patch in a layer. */
+ /* Every patch is described as both a set of control points (for a cubic
+Bezier */
+ /* patch) and as a set of triangles - use whichever you need. */
+ }
+
+Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add some complex
+ruitines to mathematically figure out which patches are adjacent to each
+other and therefore how to bind them, or move along to another piece of
+software with hopefully better export data.  I'd really hate to do the
+former as I've actually got the thing exporting zone files (they just have
+no bind info, and would probably look like hell if I tried to use them).
+The latter though seems rather intimidating, especially with my limited
+knowledge of three dimensional geometry.
+
+Well, before I make that decision I want to be sure I understand all the
+data I need to create these patches.  I've got the vertices, tangents,
+interiors, and now the BindInfo structs.  There is also an array of
+BaseVertices in the CPatchInfo object that I don't think I understand.
+Besides that the rest of the data appears to concern coloration and tiles,
+which I'm not going to worry about yet (recall that's phase 2).  Is it valid
+though to set OrderS and OrderT to 0, and therefore only supply a single
+color for the entire patch?  Will the patch render, or will I see nothing
+until I complete phase 2 (painting the patches)?
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+   </H1>
+    <B>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax">corvazier@nevrax.com
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:21:17 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Paul,
+
+Forget all the ASCII parts of the 2 previous mail, here is the good way to
+fill the CPatchInfo::CBindInfo structure :
+
+---
+
+We will assume all patches in this example are oriented like this
+
+0      3
+  ***
+  *  *
+  ***
+1      2
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+      3
+    ***
+ 0 *  * 2
+    ***
+      1
+
+ ---
+
+ There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+ ---
+
+ One patch on another :
+
+ **********
+ *      *        *
+ *  0  *   1   *
+ *      *        *
+ **********
+ CBindInfo:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 1 }, Edge = { 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   2   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Bind info:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2 }, Edge = { 0,
+0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ 4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   4   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   3   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   2   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2, Patch 3, Patch
+4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+Sorry but i have been confused by the two classes called CPatch::CBindInfo
+and CPatchInfo::CBindInfo. :-)
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html
new file mode 100644
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+   </TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+   </H1>
+    <B>Nel List
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Max Bezier Patches">nel@nevrax.org
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:45:26 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000833.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000836.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#835">[ author ]</a>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+&gt;<i> Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+</I>&gt;<i> interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add 
+</I>&gt;<i> some complex
+</I>
+If these are Bezier patches, then the outer control points (the four
+corners) will be shared with the neighbours; two corners per 
+neighbour. This seems to me to be equivalent to finding adjacent 
+triangles using shared edges, which certainly isn't complicated math 
+(although the simplest implementation takes O(n^2) time).
+
+
+
+</PRE>
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b9145803
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html
@@ -0,0 +1,128 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+   </TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+   </H1>
+    <B>nicO
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg">nel@nevrax.org
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:36:33 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000835.html">[Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#836">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I imagine that the data resend by the server are almost the same than
+those send by the client. It isn't possible to mix this to technics ? We
+can imagine peer to peer access for close characters to interract with a
+minimuim latency. And for the farer charaters, we can use the server and
+movement prediction (which could not be so bad because if there far, the
+characters will be small on screen).
+
+The idea behind that is to relax the pressure on the needed latency of
+the server. Does it not possible to add some more intelligence inside
+the client to predict what is usefull or not to minimize exchange ? 
+
+nicO
+
+&gt;<i> Subject: RE: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> There are various reasons why we haven't opted for a peer to peer model.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> One of the most basic problems is this:
+</I>&gt;<i> We are trying to achieve a high level of audio-visual immersion with scenes
+</I>&gt;<i> in which tens or hundreds of individuals move about fluidly. The majority of
+</I>&gt;<i> players only have 56k modems and bandwidth is a big issue. The problem with
+</I>&gt;<i> peer to peer is that each player has to send and receive tens or hundreds of
+</I>&gt;<i> packets per scene update at a rate of several scene updates per second. The
+</I>&gt;<i> internet headers alone for these packets are liable to completely drown the
+</I>&gt;<i> modem.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Internally we use kunning systems to decide which information on which
+</I>&gt;<i> players is relavent to send to which other players taking bandwidth
+</I>&gt;<i> constraints into account. This allows us to make optimum use of the
+</I>&gt;<i> bandwidth available.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> This code is tightly tied in with the game systems so I'm affraid it won't
+</I>&gt;<i> be released for a while yet.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Daniel
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> -----Original Message-----
+</I>&gt;<i> From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com">nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:16 PM
+</I>&gt;<i> To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> Subject: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> -- __--__--
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Message: 3
+</I>&gt;<i> From: &quot;Vianney Lecroart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+</I>&gt;<i> load balancing, login service, ....)
+</I>&gt;<i> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+</I>&gt;<i> charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> Reply-To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; But how clients are balanced between the N front
+</I>&gt;<i> ends of a shard ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+</I>&gt;<i> (try to have the same
+</I>&gt;<i> player number on each front end).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+</I>&gt;<i> More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+</I>&gt;<i> between client (such peer to peer network, or
+</I>&gt;<i> distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+</I>&gt;<i> reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+</I>&gt;<i> each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+</I>&gt;<i> could be possible to connect people which interract a
+</I>&gt;<i> lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+</I>&gt;<i> mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+</I>&gt;<i> So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+</I>&gt;<i> to the minimum.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Does i smoke too much ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> nicO
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+</PRE>
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9eecb250
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html
@@ -0,0 +1,73 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] precompiled header file
+   </TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org">
+   <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000832.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next"  HREF="000833.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] precompiled header file
+   </H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] precompiled header file">nel@nevrax.org
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:59:57 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000832.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000833.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#837">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#837">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Zen,
+
+&gt;<i>I don't know whether gcc support precompiled header or not, but VisualC++
+</I>do support it.
+
+We know precomp headers and we don't include it because on big project we
+already had some strange bug during compilation because of precomp headers
+so we decided to not use them because we already have lot of strange visual
+bug to don't add more.
+But we'll do a try soon and add them in the CVS if it works fine.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</PRE>
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..5152a36f
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-December Archive by Author</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-December Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jan  1 01:00:00 1970</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 66<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000774.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="774">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000794.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="794">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000806.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="806">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000807.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="807">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000812.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="812">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000773.html">[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)
+</A><A NAME="773">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Stein Arve Berge
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="777">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000821.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="821">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000781.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="781">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000822.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably
+ off topic)
+</A><A NAME="822">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000772.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="772">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000776.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="776">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000779.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="779">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000783.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="783">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000789.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="789">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000790.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="790">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000791.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="791">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000795.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="795">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000804.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="804">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000805.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="805">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000811.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="811">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000828.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="828">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000829.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="829">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000831.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="831">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000819.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="819">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alexander Denisov
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000818.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="818">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Markus Ewald
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000817.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="817">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000786.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="786">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000787.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="787">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000809.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="809">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000803.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="803">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>J C Lawrence
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000797.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="797">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000808.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="808">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000825.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="825">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000775.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="775">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000823.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)
+</A><A NAME="823">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000788.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="788">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000792.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="792">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000793.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="793">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000778.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="778">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000782.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="782">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000800.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="800">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000824.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="824">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000784.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="784">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000813.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="813">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000814.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="814">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000827.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="827">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000830.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+</A><A NAME="830">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000833.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="833">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000798.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="798">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000799.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="799">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000802.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="802">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000816.html">[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)
+</A><A NAME="816">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000815.html">[Nel] RE: GPL confusion
+</A><A NAME="815">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000820.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="820">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>alfred
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000785.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="785">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>froggy@froggycorp.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000780.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="780">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000796.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="796">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000826.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="826">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000801.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="801">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000810.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="810">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000832.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="832">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000837.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="837">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000835.html">[Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+</A><A NAME="835">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000834.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="834">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000836.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+</A><A NAME="836">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicO
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..829f609f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,312 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-December Archive by Date</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-December Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jan  1 01:00:00 1970</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 66<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000772.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="772">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000773.html">[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)
+</A><A NAME="773">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Stein Arve Berge
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000774.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="774">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000776.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="776">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000775.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="775">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="777">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000778.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="778">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000779.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="779">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000780.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="780">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000781.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="781">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000782.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="782">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000783.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="783">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000784.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="784">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000785.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="785">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>froggy@froggycorp.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000786.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="786">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000787.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="787">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000788.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="788">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000789.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="789">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000790.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="790">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000791.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="791">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000792.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="792">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000793.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="793">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000794.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="794">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000795.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="795">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000796.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="796">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000797.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="797">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000798.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="798">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000799.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="799">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000800.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="800">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000801.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="801">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000802.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="802">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000803.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="803">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>J C Lawrence
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000804.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="804">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000805.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="805">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000806.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="806">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000807.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="807">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000808.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="808">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000809.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="809">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000810.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="810">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000811.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="811">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000812.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="812">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000813.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="813">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000814.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="814">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000815.html">[Nel] RE: GPL confusion
+</A><A NAME="815">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000817.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="817">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000816.html">[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)
+</A><A NAME="816">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000818.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="818">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Markus Ewald
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000819.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="819">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alexander Denisov
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000820.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="820">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>alfred
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000821.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="821">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000822.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably
+ off topic)
+</A><A NAME="822">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000823.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)
+</A><A NAME="823">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000824.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="824">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000825.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="825">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000826.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="826">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000827.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="827">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000828.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="828">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000829.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="829">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000830.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+</A><A NAME="830">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000831.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="831">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000832.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="832">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000833.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="833">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000834.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="834">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000835.html">[Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+</A><A NAME="835">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000837.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="837">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000836.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+</A><A NAME="836">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicO
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e92320eb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,420 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-December Archive by Thread</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-December Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jan  1 01:00:00 1970</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 66<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01007371314- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000772.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="772">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--0 01007584938- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000773.html">[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)
+</A><A NAME="773">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Stein Arve Berge
+</I>
+<!--0 01007600022- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000774.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="774">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?=
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007600022-01007627825- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000776.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="776">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--1 01007600022-01007634530- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000775.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="775">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01007974841- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="777">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007974841-01008263415- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000798.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="798">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01007974841-01008263415-01008519149- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000821.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="821">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008029612- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000778.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="778">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008029612-01008144837- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000779.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="779">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008155018- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000780.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="780">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008155018-01008159444- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000781.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="781">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008176341- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000782.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="782">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008176341-01008177519- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000783.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="783">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008191657- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000784.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="784">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008191657-01008247280- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000786.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="786">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008191657-01008247280-01008414127- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000818.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="818">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Markus Ewald
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01008191657-01008247280-01008414127-01008586170- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000824.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="824">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01008191657-01008249183- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000789.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="789">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008246816- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000785.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="785">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>froggy@froggycorp.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008246816-01008247441- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000787.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="787">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008246816-01008247441-01008248889- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000788.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="788">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008248889-01008249827- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000790.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="790">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008248889-01008249827-01008251048- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000793.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="793">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000791.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="791">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000792.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="792">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000794.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="794">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000800.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="800">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000801.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="801">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480-01008316247- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000805.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="805">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480-01008318201- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000807.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="807">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480-01008318201-01008332930- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000810.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="810">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008316091- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000804.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="804">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008317992- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000806.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="806">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000808.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="808">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636-01008332159- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000809.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="809">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636-01008332159-01008333292- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000811.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="811">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636-01008332159-01008333693- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000812.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="812">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251649- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000795.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="795">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008259528- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000796.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="796">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008259528-01008260634- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000797.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="797">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008263613- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000799.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="799">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<!--0 01008294054- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000802.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="802">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<!--0 01008298443- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000803.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="803">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>J C Lawrence
+</I>
+<!--0 01008333804- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000813.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="813">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<!--0 01008334363- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000814.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="814">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<!--0 01008350389- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000815.html">[Nel] RE: GPL confusion
+</A><A NAME="815">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<!--0 01008353503- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000817.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="817">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008353503-01008595350- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000825.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="825">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008354554- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000816.html">[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)
+</A><A NAME="816">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<!--0 01008494955- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000819.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="819">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alexander Denisov
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008494955-01008498056- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000820.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="820">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>alfred
+</I>
+<!--1 01008494955-01008522758- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000822.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably
+ off topic)
+</A><A NAME="822">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008494955-01008522758-01008583657- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000823.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)
+</A><A NAME="823">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008674159- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000826.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="826">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008674159-01008871409- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000834.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="834">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008683385- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000827.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="827">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008683385-01008699634- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000828.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="828">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008683385-01008699634-01008747139- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000829.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="829">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--2 01008683385-01008699634-01008778877- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000831.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="831">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008774316- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000830.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+</A><A NAME="830">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<!--0 01008829209- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000832.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="832">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008829209-01009367997- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000837.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="837">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008844808- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000833.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="833">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<!--0 01009295126- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000835.html">[Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+</A><A NAME="835">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<!--0 01009388193- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000836.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+</A><A NAME="836">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicO
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,312 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-December Archive by Subject</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-December Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jan  1 01:00:00 1970</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 66<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000833.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="833">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000778.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="778">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000779.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="779">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="777">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000798.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="798">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000821.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="821">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000785.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="785">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>froggy@froggycorp.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000787.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="787">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000788.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="788">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000790.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="790">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000791.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="791">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000792.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="792">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000793.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="793">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000794.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="794">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000795.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="795">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000814.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="814">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000816.html">[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)
+</A><A NAME="816">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000774.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="774">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000776.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="776">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000775.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="775">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000784.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="784">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000786.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="786">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000789.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="789">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000813.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="813">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000818.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="818">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Markus Ewald
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000827.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="827">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000828.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="828">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000829.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="829">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000831.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="831">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000782.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="782">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000783.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="783">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000822.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably
+ off topic)
+</A><A NAME="822">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000819.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="819">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alexander Denisov
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000820.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="820">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>alfred
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000823.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)
+</A><A NAME="823">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000826.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="826">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000832.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="832">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000815.html">[Nel] RE: GPL confusion
+</A><A NAME="815">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000830.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+</A><A NAME="830">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000780.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="780">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000781.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="781">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000817.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="817">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000825.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="825">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000772.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="772">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000799.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="799">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000796.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="796">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000797.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="797">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000773.html">[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)
+</A><A NAME="773">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Stein Arve Berge
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000809.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="809">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000811.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="811">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000812.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="812">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000800.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="800">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000801.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="801">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000802.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="802">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000803.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="803">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>J C Lawrence
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000804.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="804">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000805.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="805">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000806.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="806">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000807.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="807">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000808.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="808">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000810.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="810">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000824.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="824">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000835.html">[Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+</A><A NAME="835">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000834.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="834">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000837.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="837">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000836.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+</A><A NAME="836">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicO
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e92320eb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,420 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-December Archive by Thread</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-December Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jan  1 01:00:00 1970</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 66<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01007371314- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000772.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="772">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--0 01007584938- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000773.html">[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)
+</A><A NAME="773">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Stein Arve Berge
+</I>
+<!--0 01007600022- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000774.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="774">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F3bert_Bjarnason?=
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007600022-01007627825- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000776.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="776">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--1 01007600022-01007634530- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000775.html">[Nel] Landscape Building problems
+</A><A NAME="775">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01007974841- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000777.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="777">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007974841-01008263415- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000798.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="798">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01007974841-01008263415-01008519149- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000821.html">[Nel] Feedback
+</A><A NAME="821">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Arnaud Bienvenu
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008029612- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000778.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="778">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008029612-01008144837- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000779.html">[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit
+</A><A NAME="779">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008155018- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000780.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="780">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008155018-01008159444- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000781.html">[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs
+</A><A NAME="781">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008176341- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000782.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="782">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008176341-01008177519- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000783.html">[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)
+</A><A NAME="783">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008191657- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000784.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="784">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008191657-01008247280- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000786.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="786">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008191657-01008247280-01008414127- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000818.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="818">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Markus Ewald
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01008191657-01008247280-01008414127-01008586170- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000824.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="824">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01008191657-01008249183- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000789.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="789">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008246816- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000785.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="785">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>froggy@froggycorp.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008246816-01008247441- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000787.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="787">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008246816-01008247441-01008248889- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000788.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="788">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008248889-01008249827- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000790.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="790">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008248889-01008249827-01008251048- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000793.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="793">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000791.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="791">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000792.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="792">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000794.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="794">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000800.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="800">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000801.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="801">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480-01008316247- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000805.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="805">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480-01008318201- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000807.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="807">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008293480-01008318201-01008332930- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000810.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="810">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008316091- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000804.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="804">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008317992- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000806.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="806">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000808.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="808">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636-01008332159- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000809.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="809">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636-01008332159-01008333292- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000811.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="811">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251346-01008284844-01008318636-01008332159-01008333693- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000812.html">[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics
+</A><A NAME="812">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Archer
+</I>
+<!--3 01008246816-01008247441-01008250222-01008250973-01008251649- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000795.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="795">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008259528- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000796.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="796">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008259528-01008260634- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000797.html">[Nel] TCP vs UDP
+</A><A NAME="797">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008263613- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000799.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw
+</A><A NAME="799">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<!--0 01008294054- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000802.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="802">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<!--0 01008298443- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000803.html">GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="803">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>J C Lawrence
+</I>
+<!--0 01008333804- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000813.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="813">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<!--0 01008334363- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000814.html">[Nel] Gamer question
+</A><A NAME="814">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<!--0 01008350389- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000815.html">[Nel] RE: GPL confusion
+</A><A NAME="815">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<!--0 01008353503- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000817.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="817">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008353503-01008595350- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000825.html">[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)
+</A><A NAME="825">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008354554- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000816.html">[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)
+</A><A NAME="816">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<!--0 01008494955- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000819.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="819">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alexander Denisov
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008494955-01008498056- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000820.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)
+</A><A NAME="820">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>alfred
+</I>
+<!--1 01008494955-01008522758- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000822.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably
+ off topic)
+</A><A NAME="822">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008494955-01008522758-01008583657- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000823.html">[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)
+</A><A NAME="823">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008674159- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000826.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="826">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008674159-01008871409- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000834.html">[Nel] peer to peer ?
+</A><A NAME="834">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008683385- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000827.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="827">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008683385-01008699634- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000828.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="828">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01008683385-01008699634-01008747139- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000829.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="829">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--2 01008683385-01008699634-01008778877- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000831.html">[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax
+</A><A NAME="831">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008774316- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000830.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs
+</A><A NAME="830">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<!--0 01008829209- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000832.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="832">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>zen
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01008829209-01009367997- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000837.html">[Nel] precompiled header file
+</A><A NAME="837">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01008844808- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000833.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="833">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<!--0 01009295126- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000835.html">[Nel] Max Bezier Patches
+</A><A NAME="835">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<!--0 01009388193- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000836.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg
+</A><A NAME="836">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicO
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..06fa4e6f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] New release</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000162.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] New release</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] New release">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:02:57 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000162.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#161">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#161">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#161">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#161">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>We've advanced NeL to the 0.3 version, and the sample Snowballs game to the
+0.2 version, so we've put a new release on the web site.
+
+Major highlights of NeL:
+- the AI framework compiles correctly under Linux
+- support for shadows, lens flare, and other lighting effects
+- compressed textures
+
+Major highlights of Snowballs (besides the NeL parts)
+- new radar system
+- zoom
+- correct execution under Linux (if your Xserver supports 3D acceleration,
+  otherwise, don't even think about it)
+
+As usual, you may update your CVS repositories and compile, or install the
+packaged source tree and compile from there. Do not forget to install the
+updated data files.
+
+As an aside, we're putting the dreaded 'ns.cfg' file in the data distribution
+but the library defaults are now set to the right server. Even without it,
+you'll no longer get the &quot;cannot resolve pctest&quot; error.
+
+Enjoy the new version.
+
+We'd appreciate feedback on how well it works under Linux. We've tested it
+with NVidia's accelerated modules, and some configurations give us problems
+(like 2 FPS rates), so we'd like to figure out what's wrong with these.
+Many thanks in advance.
+
+The distributions are linked on the news article on the home page of the
+	<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/">http://www.nevrax.org/</A>
+web site.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1081da49
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux compilation pb</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000161.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000166.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux compilation pb</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux compilation pb">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 07 Feb 2001 20:28:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000161.html">[Nel] New release</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000166.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#162">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="subject.html#162">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#162">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that &quot;gl.h&quot;
+includes &quot;glext.h&quot;. And &quot;glx.h&quot; include &quot;gl.h&quot;. And so on ... The conclusion
+is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+
+#ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+#endif
+
+and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+&lt;GL/glx.h&gt;).
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4d3a5c44
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] news about nevrax on /.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000188.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000165.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] news about nevrax on /.">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:55:27 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000188.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000165.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#163">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#163">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#163">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>hello
+you certainly know it but there is a news a
+nevrax on slashdot : <A HREF="http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml">http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml</A>
+sorry for this mail which don't deal with code
+but i think their some interresting comments about this news.
+i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+cheating and economic problems.
+
+and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+good luck guys !
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#163">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..97a050a2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] news about nevrax on /.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000165.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000167.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] news about nevrax on /.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:06:58 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000165.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000167.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#164">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#164">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#164">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#164">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Nicolas Hognon:
+&gt;<i> and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+</I>
+Incidentally, the site handles the www &amp; this list. Seem that sendmail
+is more resilient than apache.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#164">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..cbc0b579
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html
@@ -0,0 +1,69 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] news about nevrax on /.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000163.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000164.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] news about nevrax on /.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:05:45 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#165">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#165">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#165">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#165">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Nicolas Hognon:
+&gt;<i> hello
+</I>&gt;<i> you certainly know it but there is a news a
+</I>&gt;<i> nevrax on slashdot : <A HREF="http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml">http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml</A>
+</I>
+I know. This evening (afternoon for the states), rsync failed with lotsa
+timeouts.
+
+Of course, I've seen since that I configured our sync badly, and we sync
+documentation and cvs repositories thru the Internet instead of using only
+out private links.
+
+&gt;<i> i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+</I>&gt;<i> cheating and economic problems.
+</I>
+I'll be heading there first thing today. Given my selection, the Nevrax
+story is on the very first page of my home page (set to Slashdot) when
+I logged on this morning.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#165">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..94a9b7ab
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html
@@ -0,0 +1,83 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux compilation pb</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000162.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000188.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux compilation pb</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux compilation pb">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:39:43 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000162.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000188.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#166">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#166">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+modifications,
+but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vincent Caron&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:v.caron@zerodeux.net">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:28 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compilation pb
+
+
+&gt;<i> I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+</I>&gt;<i> lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that &quot;gl.h&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> includes &quot;glext.h&quot;. And &quot;glx.h&quot; include &quot;gl.h&quot;. And so on ... The
+</I>conclusion
+&gt;<i> is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+</I>&gt;<i> inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> #ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+</I>&gt;<i> #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+</I>&gt;<i> #endif
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+</I>&gt;<i> &lt;GL/glx.h&gt;).
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d2c34a9a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000164.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000171.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:30:33 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000171.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#167">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#167">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#167">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#167">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I compiled NeL from CVS the night before, and fetched snowballs data this
+morning (yes, after the slashdotting, I had something like a half-minitel
+feeling). The client took 20sec to display something (no CPU consumption
+though), then I connected to itsalive with a dummy login. Everything is
+fine, except my fps starting at 5 (the landscape just loaded) quickly
+sinking at 0.8 (I moved the mouse a little).
+
+My box is a Celeron-375, GeForce256, Linux 2.4.0 (Debian/woody). I'm running
+XFree 4.0.2 with Nvidia 0.9.6 drivers. Quake3 runs over 60fps with full
+options at 1024x768 (and really never hangs, yeees :)).
+
+More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the modeline
+is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different bitdepth
+under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#167">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#167">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#167">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..434efec8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000172.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000169.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:48:46 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000172.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000169.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#168">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#168">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#168">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#168">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>You might have noticed the sluggish feel of the site, and the lack of
+prompt response by the mailing list (well maybe not).
+
+For those who didn't pay attention to the warnings earlier, we got
+referenced on Slashdot, which means about 1,000 people trying to click
+simultaneously on the link leading... well here.
+
+We don't have the infrastructure in place to handle this. Usually, no one
+has (it's kinda hard to justify putting enormous ressources to sustain a
+spike in traffic that will be mostly gone next week, once everyone had a
+look here).
+
+We've got however a bunch of new people coming here, so I'd like to say
+hello to all of you. I do hope you've browsed quickly thru the mail
+archives on the www.nevrax.org web site, and found it interesting. The
+list has gone mainly silent, with the odd compile problem cropping here
+and there, but that doesn't need to remain so.
+
+So, what do you think about NeL so far?
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..744d3b6f
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</H1>
+    <B>Carl Vilbrandt</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:root%40cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Computer Arts Lab">root@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:32:44 +0900</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000168.html">[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#169">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+ boundary=&quot;------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67&quot;
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+To all
+
+I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+entity.   Each
+AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+AutoCAD
+data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data with
+the real
+time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+time  simulation
+for visualization.
+
+I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+
+I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+temples in  the
+Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+studied with a master
+temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the last
+temple builder
+in this region.
+
+I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+in this area via the internet.
+
+I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+open source
+3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+anyone have any
+suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+
+<A HREF="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html">http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html</A>
+
+--
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email <A HREF="mailto:vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp">vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp</A>
+
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+&lt;!doctype html public &quot;-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en&quot;&gt;
+To all
+<p>I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake entity.&nbsp;&nbsp;
+Each
+<br>AutoCAD&nbsp; / Quake entity as&nbsp; a unique name so I have a link
+between AutoCAD
+<br>data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+with the real
+<br>time Quake entities.&nbsp;&nbsp; I plan to create a CAD&nbsp; system
+that uses a real time&nbsp; simulation
+<br>for visualization.
+<p>I have been looking at other game 3D engines.&nbsp; Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+<p>I&nbsp;have created very precise highly computational base 3D models
+of temples in&nbsp; the
+<br>Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.&nbsp;
+I studied with a master
+<br>temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+last temple builder
+<br>in this region.
+<p>I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+<br>in this area via the internet.
+<p>I&nbsp;would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join
+and open source
+<br>3D real time&nbsp; dev group.&nbsp; I am not quite sure where to begin.&nbsp;
+Does anyone have any
+<br>suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+<p><A HREF="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html">http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html</A>
+<pre>--&nbsp;
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp</pre>
+&nbsp;</html>
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67--
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii;
+ name="vilb.html"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: inline;
+ filename="vilb.html"
+Content-Base: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+Content-Location: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+
+<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
+<html>
+<head>
+   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
+   <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Mozilla/4.7 [en_jp] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) [Netscape]">
+   <title>Computer Arts Lab</title>
+</head>
+<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#000000" link="#CCCCCC" vlink="#CCCCCC" alink="#999999" background="cal07.gif">
+&nbsp;
+<table BORDER CELLPADDING=3 NOSAVE >
+<tr NOSAVE>
+<td NOSAVE><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#CCCCCC"><font size=+1>CARL
+VILBRANDT</font></font></font></b></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><b><a href="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp">University
+of Aizu</a></b><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+Department of Software - Computer Arts Lab</font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">Tsuruga, Ikki-machi,
+Aizu-Wakamatsu, Fukushima, JAPAN 965-8580</font></font></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.applied3d.com/res/res.html">Curriculum
+Vitae</a></font></font></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">email:</font> <a href="mailto:vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp">vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+
+<font color="#000000">Office 327-B</font></font></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">tel no: +81-242-37-2792&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+FAX +81-242-37-2772</font></font></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td></td>
+
+<td></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr>
+<td><font color="#000000"></font></td>
+
+<td></td>
+</tr>
+
+<tr NOSAVE>
+<td NOSAVE><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#CCCCCC">Classes:</font><font color="#999999">&nbsp;</font><font color="#000000">
+Computer Graphics</font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+<a href="lit2/f1.htm">Literacy 2</a></font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+<a href="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~k-mori/os/">Operating Systems</a></font></font></td>
+
+<td><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">Research: 
+<a href="http://www.gnubook.org">GNUbook.org</a></font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+
+<a href="http://www.hyperfun.org">HyperFun.org</a></font></font>
+<br><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
+
+<a href="http://fire.csua.ucla.edu/~jan/ah/menu.html">Aizu History Project</a></font></font></td>
+</tr>
+</table>
+
+<p><img SRC="tmp.jpg" HSPACE=10 VSPACE=10 height=240 width=320 align=RIGHT>
+</body>
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000169.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000173.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</H1>
+    <B>Dave Turner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Computer Arts Lab">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:31:46 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000169.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000173.html">[Nel] snowballs is slow</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#170">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Carl Vilbrandt wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> To all
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+</I>&gt;<i> entity.   Each
+</I>&gt;<i> AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+</I>&gt;<i> AutoCAD
+</I>&gt;<i> data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+</I>&gt;<i> with the real
+</I>&gt;<i> time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+</I>&gt;<i> time  simulation
+</I>&gt;<i> for visualization.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+</I>&gt;<i> temples in  the
+</I>&gt;<i> Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+</I>&gt;<i> studied with a master
+</I>&gt;<i> temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+</I>&gt;<i> last temple builder
+</I>&gt;<i> in this region.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+</I>&gt;<i> historical sites
+</I>&gt;<i> in this area via the internet.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+</I>&gt;<i> open source
+</I>&gt;<i> 3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+</I>&gt;<i> anyone have any
+</I>&gt;<i> suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html">http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+</I>
+The big way to contribute to open source is to release under the GPL or
+a BSD-style license your autocad-&gt;quake converter.  I think there is a
+Quake3-&gt;Crystalspace map converter, which is something that you might
+want to consider when choosing an engine.  
+
+This sounds like a great project - have fun!
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+&quot;It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures&quot; - Pug
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..516b282a
--- /dev/null
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@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000167.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000172.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:45:38 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000167.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000172.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#171">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+</I>&gt;<i> fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the
+</I>modeline
+&gt;<i> is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different
+</I>bitdepth
+&gt;<i> under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+</I>
+actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html
new file mode 100644
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@@ -0,0 +1,53 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000171.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:34:23 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000171.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000168.html">[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#172">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#172">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#172">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+</I>&gt;<i> available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+</I>
+You can't change XFree bitdepth until you restart it ... For good GL init
+code, I suggest you take a look at SDL init code.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+              <a href="author.html#172">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..92afc180
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] snowballs is slow</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] snowballs is slow</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] snowballs is slow">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:01:55 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000170.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:snowballs@nevrax.org">snowballs@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:27 PM
+Subject: Re: [Snowballs] Runnign snowballs - Finally snowballs runs!
+
+
+&gt;<i> The font problem was because of how i compiled freetype.
+</I>&gt;<i> Now snowball runs!
+</I>&gt;<i> It looks very nice(especially the terrain) but it isn't very fast!
+</I>&gt;<i> I get below 10 fps on my 800 mhz Athlon with 128 mb ram and a GeForce256
+</I>&gt;<i> 32 MB DDR card(using detonator drivers) running win98se.
+</I>&gt;<i> Is this somethign wrong with my configuration or are there optimizations
+</I>&gt;<i> that haven't yet been made or something?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> /David
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Snowballs mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Snowballs@nevrax.org">Snowballs@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html
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+ <HEAD>
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Tarnus</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:olivier.tarnus%40interact.lu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....">olivier.tarnus@interact.lu</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:33:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000173.html">[Nel] snowballs is slow</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000175.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Hi ,
+
+And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+active OSS softwares comming from France....
+
+I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+find the configure script that should be included...
+
+Do i have to get it via CVS?
+
+Olivier Tarnus
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
+Content-Type: text/x-vcard;
+	name=&quot;Olivier Tarnus.vcf&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename=&quot;Olivier Tarnus.vcf&quot;
+
+BEGIN:VCARD
+VERSION:2.1
+N:Tarnus;Olivier
+FN:Olivier Tarnus
+TITLE:Web developer
+TEL;WORK;VOICE:+352 48 49 69
+EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:<A HREF="mailto:olivier.tarnus@interact.lu">olivier.tarnus@interact.lu</A>
+REV:20010209T133339Z
+END:VCARD
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000174.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000176.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:08:14 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000174.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000176.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi ,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+</I>&gt;<i> active OSS softwares comming from France....
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+</I>&gt;<i> find the configure script that should be included...
+</I>
+It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4d65fb84
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000175.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000177.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:47:13 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000175.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#176">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vincent Caron wrote:
+&gt;<i> Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; find the configure script that should be included...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+</I>&gt;<i> the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+</I>
+The version available on our web site are CVS ckeckout and not a distribution
+version. That's mean that the configure script will no be include but
+should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+
+The bootstrap script migth fail becuase some files are missing, so in that
+case reexecute the script., it will copy the missing files ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d53e92fa
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html
@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:38:12 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000176.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000178.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Valignat Cedric wrote:
+&gt;<i> should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+</I>&gt;<i> Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+</I>
+Ooops you should read Makefile.am and not Makefile.in ... :-)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html
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@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Hello Slashdot !</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000177.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000179.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Hello Slashdot !">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:54:18 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000177.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#178">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3">http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3</A>
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ccc6ffc7
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Hello Slashdot !</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:Matthew.Flagg%40channelinx.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000178.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000180.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</H1>
+    <B>Matthew Flagg</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:Matthew.Flagg%40channelinx.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Hello Slashdot !">Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:06:20 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000178.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000180.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hey that would be me!  Hey guys.  Any of you on the Java3D list too maybe?
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Olivier Lejade [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:lejade@nevrax.com">lejade@nevrax.com</A>]
+Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 2:54 PM
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+Subject: [Nel] Hello Slashdot !
+
+
+I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3">http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3</A>
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html
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@@ -0,0 +1,83 @@
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000182.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation under VC6</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation under VC6">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:03:30 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000182.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>put the include directory of stlport before
+in include from microsoft
+
+Slistak Shady wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> Hi-
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> This is my first time at tryng to compile everything. Current problem I 
+</I>&gt;<i> have is the following error when compiling NeL.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+</I>&gt;<i> #error :  &quot;You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> file.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and 
+</I>&gt;<i> compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and 
+</I>&gt;<i> lib file as per the INSTALL doc.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Any suggestions?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks.
+</I>&gt;<i> Brett
+</I>
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..5d060ea1
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation under VC6</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation under VC6</H1>
+    <B>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation under VC6">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:57:40 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000180.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Slistak,
+
+Friday, February 09, 2001, 1:47:18 PM, you wrote:
+SS&gt; C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+SS&gt; #error :  &quot;You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)&quot;
+SS&gt; file.cpp
+
+SS&gt; I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and
+SS&gt; compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and lib 
+SS&gt; file as per the INSTALL doc.
+
+SS&gt; Any suggestions?
+
+In VC, try going into the Tools-&gt;Options menu and move
+the reference to the stlport include files up using
+the up arrow.  This is for the compiler to find
+stlport before the standard MS libraries.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..abbaa389
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation under VC6</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:slistak%40hotmail.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000181.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000187.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation under VC6</H1>
+    <B>Slistak Shady</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:slistak%40hotmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation under VC6">slistak@hotmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:18:24 -0000</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000181.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+
+Brett
+
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A HREF="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0e951974
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html
@@ -0,0 +1,113 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ewert%40reflexnet.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000187.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000186.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</H1>
+    <B>Mark Ewert</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ewert%40reflexnet.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting">ewert@reflexnet.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000187.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#184">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#184">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#184">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+It took me awhile to finally compile 0.2 of nevrax.org for windows, but =
+after numerous patches (some of them blatant kludges) I was able to =
+compile both the client and server.
+
+I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on how =
+to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all the =
+code ?
+
+A side note, I found the documentation overall to be quite sparse. I'm =
+sure this is something that will change as the project matures, but for =
+new users/developers especially better documentation would be much =
+appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test ;)
+
+Mark.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;It took me awhile to finally compile =
+0.2 of=20
+nevrax.org for windows, but after numerous patches (some of them blatant =
+
+kludges) I was able to compile both the client and server.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I thought an interesting first step to =
+working with=20
+nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current environment. I =
+have=20
+briefly skimmed the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;A side note, I found the documentation =
+overall to=20
+be quite sparse. I'm sure this is something that will change as the =
+project=20
+matures, but for new users/developers especially better documentation =
+would be=20
+much appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test=20
+;)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Mark.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..11c504e4
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html
@@ -0,0 +1,112 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nevrax_dummy%40bloodgate.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000186.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000189.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</H1>
+    <B>Tels</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax_dummy%40bloodgate.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg">nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:46:51 +0100 (CET)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#185">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#185">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#185">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+IMO it would be a good idea if the list disallowed attachments and/or html.
+HTML (even with javascript/background pictures) is nearly as bad as these
+unreadable vcard attachements and others ;o)
+
+- From my prevois ML experiences a simple rule/guideline to NOT do such
+things is not enough - admins, do you read me? ;)
+
+Oh and hi all. Still struggling with the slashdot effect I at least got the
+code and will start playing with it today.
+
+&gt;<i> Today's Topics:
+</I>&gt;<i>   1. Documentation on Event/Character Scripting (Mark Ewert)
+</I>&gt;<i> --__--__--
+</I>&gt;<i> Message: 1
+</I>&gt;<i> From: &quot;Mark Ewert&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:ewert@reflexnet.net">ewert@reflexnet.net</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500
+</I>&gt;<i> boundary=&quot;----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> Subject: [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting
+</I>&gt;<i> Reply-To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+</I>&gt;<i> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+</I>&gt;<i> Content-Type: text/plain;
+</I>&gt;<i>       charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+</I>&gt;<i> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+</I>&gt;<i> Content-Type: text/html;
+</I>&gt;<i>       charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+</I>
+[snip]
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ &quot;Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?&quot;
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/thief/">http://bloodgate.com/thief/</A>     Thief - The Dark Project
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/aifilter">http://bloodgate.com/aifilter</A>   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ <A HREF="http://freedomforlinks.de">http://freedomforlinks.de</A>       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc">http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc</A> or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOoaIPncLPEOTuEwVAQHMZAf/QKnbk6DdXAVxioed8n1DsUtHOB+HqErS
+hZapigpP+10OZZVucyo0X9yLlmmMerHvPgCmAmTQG6ob2GXJWrPdH8Y6zO6IrRi7
+vYPAPBayFNqRrixnCfv/0AsWxj9IMG0qjOE+rOhKV4eqSudnbHDzG2gr4JFVnQ8y
+mMtyF8Mk5EYGlN6IgjnCSripmEcyrPqDFAoKGuQuntxF7XZ2O4+E7svp1Y0EJUfu
+s/cWUjYT9YSZhpmOv/QOg7GXDsVeH0uuh+e4YMyxQvVnS1jDXkxHp7PvUO2rKMst
+QGT11GjqomXSYPxWD/3P7/F6yFGzf8dt7GH13o+6e15kje3vI1MSBg==
+=cpbF
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a8b88356
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html
@@ -0,0 +1,107 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000184.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000185.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</H1>
+    <B>sameh chafik Pro</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:13:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000184.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000185.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#186">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#186">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#186">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+Hello Mark and thank you,
+
+&gt;<i>I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+</I>add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the &gt;AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on =
+how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all =
+the code ?
+
+Yes we know and we are very sorry. At present we work on the =
+client/server modele for data distribution modele because events in AI =
+script work on local model. When we finish this work we'll write a doc. =
+It do'nt take long time do do this job.=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4134.600&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hello Mark and thank you,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt;I thought an interesting first step =
+to working=20
+with nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current =
+environment. I have=20
+briefly skimmed the &amp;gt;AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Yes we know and we are very sorry. =
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;At present we work on the client/server modele for =
+data=20
+distribution modele because events in AI script work on local model. =
+When we=20
+finish this work we'll write a doc.&amp;nbsp;It do'nt take long time do do =
+this=20
+job.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1e170ee5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html
@@ -0,0 +1,54 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation under VC6</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000183.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000184.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation under VC6</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation under VC6">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:21:57 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000183.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000184.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#187">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#187">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Slistak Shady:
+&gt;<i> Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+</I>
+Another one for the FAQ &quot;How to compile this beast&quot; :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..949ede78
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux compilation pb</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000166.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000163.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux compilation pb</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux compilation pb">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:28:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000166.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#188">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#188">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:39:43AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+&gt;<i> Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+</I>&gt;<i> It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+</I>&gt;<i> modifications,
+</I>&gt;<i> but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+</I>
+Just a quick word to say that the problem just appeared here. The proposed
+correction seems to work.
+
+Larger report when compilation ends.. :-)
+
+	
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |     
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..44b2fc74
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html
@@ -0,0 +1,74 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:moz%40oosterveld.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000185.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000190.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</H1>
+    <B>Mark W. Oosterveld</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:moz%40oosterveld.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT">moz@oosterveld.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:15:38 -0500 (EST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000185.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000190.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#189">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#189">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#189">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#189">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+  I am one of the slashdot horde that descended on your project
+recently. I have done a cvs checkout of the latest soruce, and am triing
+to compile it under Visual C++ 6.0, sp 4, on both a Windows 98 box (at
+home) and an NT box (at work... don't tell anyone). Anyway, after
+installing STLport, FreeType, Python, and glext.h, I am able to compile
+all the libraries. But, when I try to build the client, I get the
+following error:
+
+
+LINK: warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBC&quot; conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe
+
+
+  Unfortunatly, my C++ is a little rusty, and my Windows Programing is
+almost non existant, but there is a main (and a WinMain) in client.cpp.
+I suspect I have a setting wrong in VC, but wouldn't even begin to know
+where to find it.
+
+Mark
+
+P.S. I am most interested in looking at (and possibly working on) the
+server side, but need to get a client up and running before I can really
+start looking at it in depth.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a75979d4
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html
@@ -0,0 +1,69 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000189.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000191.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:53:52 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000191.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#190">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#190">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#190">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#190">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+
+Thanks.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..adcd1666
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html
@@ -0,0 +1,85 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:moz%40oosterveld.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000190.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000192.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</H1>
+    <B>Mark W. Oosterveld</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:moz%40oosterveld.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT">moz@oosterveld.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:28:13 -0500 (EST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000190.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000192.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#191">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#191">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#191">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#191">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vianney,
+
+  Thank you. That worked perfectly. Now I just have to wait till I get
+home before I can run it. I was pretty sure it was a simple problem, but
+one that would have taken me days to track down. Thanks again.
+
+Mark
+
+On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> Hello,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+</I>&gt;<i> 1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+</I>&gt;<i> the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+</I>&gt;<i> 'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+</I>&gt;<i> 2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+</I>&gt;<i> configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+</I>&gt;<i> search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+</I>&gt;<i> remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+</I>&gt;<i> 3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i> ---
+</I>&gt;<i> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+</I>&gt;<i> icq#: 6870415
+</I>&gt;<i> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+</I>&gt;<i> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4edaddef
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html
@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zane%40users.sourceforge.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000191.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000193.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</H1>
+    <B>Zane</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zane%40users.sourceforge.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS">zane@users.sourceforge.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:57:56 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000191.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000193.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#192">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#192">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#192">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#192">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>First off I'd like to say hello, I'm new to the list, one of the slashdot
+crowd that have descended upon you. :)  I'm a C/C++/VB^H^H^H/SQL developer
+and I've done mud development as a hobby for years
+(www.sourceforge.net/projects/embermud) so this project was immediately
+interesting to me.  I'm entirely a client/server developer with just a
+rudimentary understanding of 3D so I'll probably be contributing entirely in
+the server or client/server communcation areas.  Few questions for you all
+at Nevrax.
+
+Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+the website obsolete.
+
+Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+:<i>).
+</I>
+I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+
+What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+documentation available but as far I as I can tell there aren't many (or
+any) design documents available.  This would be especially nice for parts of
+the library that have yet to be developed.  Starting work on undeveloped
+portions of the library (the DB portion for instance) might be of interest
+to other developers.
+
+Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+your work to the community?
+
+Forgive me if I'm asking questions with answers that are readily available
+on your web-site but I've done my best to research beforehand.
+
+Thanks,
+E.J. Wilburn
+<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0917b88f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html
@@ -0,0 +1,104 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000192.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000210.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:48:57 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000192.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#193">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#193">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#193">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+
+According to Zane:
+&gt;<i> Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+</I>&gt;<i> keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+</I>&gt;<i> NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+</I>&gt;<i> the website obsolete.
+</I>
+Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+
+&gt;<i> Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+</I>&gt;<i> site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+</I>&gt;<i> would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+</I>&gt;<i> offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+</I>&gt;<i> will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+</I>&gt;<i> :).
+</I>
+We could use Slashdot, yes. In fact, there's a NeL project registered
+on it &quot;in case&quot;. Why aren't we using Sourceforge? Well, apart from the
+current rumors of source forge growing beyond its possibilities of support,
+we'd lose some of the control we have on the current public system. It's
+a relatively gray area, and one on which we aren't saying much, except,
+&quot;well, right now we aren't&quot;.
+
+&gt;<i> I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+</I>&gt;<i> using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+</I>&gt;<i> any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+</I>&gt;<i> write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+</I>&gt;<i> curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+</I>
+License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+(we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+the license from 3DS.
+
+&gt;<i> What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+</I>
+No comment :)
+
+We know we should :)
+
+&gt;<i> Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+</I>&gt;<i> to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+</I>&gt;<i> your work to the community?
+</I>
+Both. Altough we haven't specifically announced things, we have a specific
+program and are opening CVS commit privileges to specific people, so we
+are looking for contributions, at all levels (from simple bug fixes to
+whole features).
+
+We don't guarantee we'll use everything, but if it &quot;fits&quot; within the
+NeL scope, we'll put it in, even if we don't use it ourselves (yet).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2933d50f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html
@@ -0,0 +1,74 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] samples for NeL!!!</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000210.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000195.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] samples for NeL!!!">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:00:00 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#194">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#194">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#194">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#194">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello all!
+
+In the nel directory we'll add a sample directory, you'll see it after the
+syncro of this night.
+It's very simple examples of some NeL features. There's more comments than
+code
+so it could be a very good way to learn how to use NeL.
+I commit them without tested them on linux because I think that it's really
+easy to correct them
+(if necessary) and anyway, people who want to take a look on NeL this week
+end could look them
+(even if they don't compile, there's lot of comment).
+There's no makefile but they'll come next week i think.
+Please, fell free to send bugfix in comment and/or code parts by email
+directly to my
+email (<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>) to avoid flooding this mailing list ;)
+
+Enjoy!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4594952b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html
@@ -0,0 +1,164 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gl.h</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000194.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000197.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] gl.h</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gl.h">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:13:35 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#195">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#195">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#195">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#195">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+I get the following errors:
+
+Compiling...
+driver_opengl.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_material.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; // Please download it from =
+<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/&quot;</A>
+
+I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which are =
+required).
+
+What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I get the following errors:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+size=3D2&gt;Compiling...&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+</I>file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_extension.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+</I>file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_material.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+</I>file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_matrix.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+</I>file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_texture.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+:<i> fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+</I>file or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;Error executing cl.exe.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's =
+a comment=20
+there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing =
+be in=20
+the readme file?)...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;#include &amp;lt;GL/glext.h&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;// Please download =
+it from &lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/p=">http://oss.sgi.com/p=</A>
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/&lt;/A&gt;&quot;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&amp;nbsp; I=20
+grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go =
+looking=20
+for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put=20
+them.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... =
+(both of=20
+which are required).&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;What am I missing?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#195">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#195">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#195">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b1dd3c6c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html
@@ -0,0 +1,101 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linking Services</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000228.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000198.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linking Services</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linking Services">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:17:42 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000228.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#196">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#196">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#196">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#196">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file &quot;stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib&quot;
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Again.&amp;nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Linking...&lt;BR&gt;LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+&quot;stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib&quot;&lt;BR&gt;Error executing link.exe.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+error&amp;nbsp;when linking.&amp;nbsp; I tried searching for references to this =
+.lib in=20
+all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never =
+found=20
+anything.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Again, what am I missing?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000228.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#196">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#196">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#196">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#196">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..777f9aa2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html
@@ -0,0 +1,215 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gl.h</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000195.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000211.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] gl.h</H1>
+    <B>EagleEye</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gl.h">eagleeye@flashmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:26:03 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#197">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#197">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#197">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#197">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives and found the file I =
+needed.  I guess this means the documentation just needs to be updated =
+so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get it.
+
+Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:13 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+  -- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+  I get the following errors:
+
+  Compiling...
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_material.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  Error executing cl.exe.
+
+  Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+  #include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; // Please download it from =
+<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/&quot;</A>
+
+  I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+  I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which =
+are required).
+
+  What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives =
+and found=20
+the file I needed.&amp;nbsp; I guess this means the documentation just needs =
+to be=20
+updated so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get=20
+it.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Here's the URL for those of you looking for =
+it:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h"">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h&quot;</A>&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+size=3D3&gt;<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</FONT">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h&lt;/FONT</A>&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;BR=
+&gt;<i>&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;
+</I>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D&quot;PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV=20
+  style=3D&quot;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;From:&lt;/B&gt;=20
+  &lt;A title=<A HREF="mailto:3Djmark4@home.com">3Djmark4@home.com</A> href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:jmark4@home.com">jmark4@home.com</A>&quot;&gt;Jared =
+Mark&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;To:&lt;/B&gt; &lt;A title=<A HREF="mailto:3Dnel@nevrax.org">3Dnel@nevrax.org</A>=20
+  href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&quot;&gt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Sent:&lt;/B&gt; Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:13=20
+  PM&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Subject:&lt;/B&gt; [Nel] gl.h&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I get the following errors:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+  =
+size=3D2&gt;Compiling...&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_extension.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_material.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_matrix.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory&lt;BR&gt;driver_opengl_texture.cpp&lt;BR&gt;C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  directory&lt;BR&gt;Error executing cl.exe.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out =
+there's a=20
+  comment there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort =
+of=20
+  thing be in the readme file?)...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;#include &amp;lt;GL/glext.h&amp;gt;&amp;nbsp;// Please =
+download it from=20
+  &lt;A=20
+  =
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/p=">http://oss.sgi.com/p=</A>
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/&lt;/A&gt;&quot;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&amp;nbsp; I=20
+  grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can =
+go=20
+  looking for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to =
+put=20
+  them.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or =
+gl.h... (both=20
+  of which are required).&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;What am I =
+missing?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#197">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#197">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#197">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#197">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..34215064
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html
@@ -0,0 +1,174 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linking Services</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000196.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000199.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linking Services</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linking Services">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:44:19 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000196.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#198">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#198">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#198">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#198">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the way... forgot to =
+change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL okay... and =
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).
+
+I was getting the error from the glext.h when building the =
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but then it goes to link and gives me this:
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file &quot;stlport_vc6.lib&quot;
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Which I'm assuming is why the services link is getting the error I =
+described below...
+
+So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with stlport.  Please =
+forgive me for being such a novice programmer. :)
+
+Can anyone help?
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:17 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] Linking Services
+
+
+  Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+  Linking...
+  LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file =
+&quot;stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib&quot;
+  Error executing link.exe.
+
+  Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+  Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the =
+way...=20
+forgot to change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL =
+okay... and=20
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services=20
+error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I was getting the error from the glext.h when =
+building the=20
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but=20
+then it goes to link and gives me this:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Linking...&lt;BR&gt;LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+&quot;stlport_vc6.lib&quot;&lt;BR&gt;Error executing link.exe.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Which I'm assuming is why the services link is =
+getting the=20
+error I described below...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with =
+
+stlport.&amp;nbsp; Please forgive me for being such a novice programmer.=20
+:<i>)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+</I>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Can anyone help?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D&quot;PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV=20
+  style=3D&quot;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;From:&lt;/B&gt;=20
+  &lt;A title=<A HREF="mailto:3Djmark4@home.com">3Djmark4@home.com</A> href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:jmark4@home.com">jmark4@home.com</A>&quot;&gt;Jared =
+Mark&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;To:&lt;/B&gt; &lt;A title=<A HREF="mailto:3Dnel@nevrax.org">3Dnel@nevrax.org</A>=20
+  href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&quot;&gt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Sent:&lt;/B&gt; Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:17=20
+  PM&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Subject:&lt;/B&gt; [Nel] Linking =
+Services&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Again.&amp;nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Linking...&lt;BR&gt;LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+  &quot;stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib&quot;&lt;BR&gt;Error executing link.exe.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+  error&amp;nbsp;when linking.&amp;nbsp; I tried searching for references to =
+this .lib=20
+  in all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and =
+never=20
+  found anything.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Again, what am I=20
+missing?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000196.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#198">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#198">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#198">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#198">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..80e7236c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html
@@ -0,0 +1,65 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link Error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:slistak%40hotmail.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000198.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000203.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Link Error</H1>
+    <B>Slistak Shady</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:slistak%40hotmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link Error">slistak@hotmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:42:10 -0000</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#199">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#199">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#199">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#199">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is current 
+up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help? 
+Thanks.
+
+
+Linking...
+MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;libcmt.lib&quot; 
+conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol 
+_psaux_module_class
+Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A HREF="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e013ee77
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html
@@ -0,0 +1,222 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000203.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000204.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 18 Feb 2001 05:24:55 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000204.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#200">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, and freetype...=20
+
+I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused about freetype.  I =
+do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, but it's not =
+named &quot;freetype.lib&quot;... it's named &quot;freetype200b8MT.lib&quot;.  at one point =
+it created &quot;freetype200b8.lib&quot; also.
+
+I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the services .exe files to =
+compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)  I have all of the =
+client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle perhaps?).
+
+Client Files Project was not compiling because it said it needed =
+&quot;freetype.lib&quot;.  Fine... I tried renaming the freetype200b8.lib file to =
+freetype.lib.  Didn't work.  So I tried the other one (the multithreaded =
+one), and it didn't work either.
+
+Here's what it's telling me...
+
+--------------------Configuration: client - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Linking...
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must not be doing =
+something right with freetype during the making of it.
+
+So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I had had some =
+problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured since =
+I had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project =
+files for freetype... here's what they're telling me.
+
+Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) build 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'
+Compiling...
+common.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or directory
+ftdump.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, so y'all get the =
+idea.
+
+It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to figure =
+it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know I'm =
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something obvious or not.  If it's not something obvious, could someone =
+help me? :)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, =
+and=20
+freetype... &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused =
+about=20
+freetype.&amp;nbsp; I do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, =
+but=20
+it's not named &quot;freetype.lib&quot;... it's named &quot;freetype200b8MT.lib&quot;.&amp;nbsp; =
+at one=20
+point it created &quot;freetype200b8.lib&quot; also.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the =
+services .exe=20
+files to compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)&amp;nbsp; I =
+have all=20
+of the client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle=20
+perhaps?).&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Client Files Project was not compiling because it =
+said it=20
+needed &quot;freetype.lib&quot;.&amp;nbsp; Fine... I tried renaming the =
+freetype200b8.lib file=20
+to freetype.lib.&amp;nbsp; Didn't work.&amp;nbsp; So I tried the other one (the=20
+multithreaded one), and it didn't work either.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Here's what it's telling me...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;--------------------Configuration: client - Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------&lt;BR&gt;Linking...&lt;BR&gt;LINK : warning =
+LNK4098:=20
+defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library&lt;BR&gt;freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class&lt;BR&gt;MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error =
+LNK2001:=20
+unresolved external symbol _main&lt;BR&gt;ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals&lt;BR&gt;Error executing =
+link.exe.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 =
+warning(s)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must =
+not be=20
+doing something right with freetype during the making of =
+it.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I =
+had had=20
+some problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured =
+since I=20
+had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project files =
+for=20
+freetype... here's what they're telling me.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) =
+build=20
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'&lt;BR&gt;Compiling..=
+.&lt;BR&gt;common.c&lt;BR&gt;fatal=20
+error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;ftdump.c&lt;BR&gt;fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: =
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory&lt;BR&gt;Error executing cl.exe.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, =
+so y'all=20
+get the idea.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll =
+be able=20
+to figure it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know =
+I'm=20
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something=20
+obvious or not.&amp;nbsp; If it's not something obvious, could someone help =
+me?=20
+:<i>)&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+</I>
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4481f452
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html
@@ -0,0 +1,127 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling under Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nevrax_dummy%40bloodgate.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000205.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000215.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling under Linux</H1>
+    <B>Tels</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax_dummy%40bloodgate.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling under Linux">nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:27:30 +0100 (CET)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#201">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+several nitpicks after my 2-hour adventures with ./configure under
+linux/gcc (SuSE 7.0):
+
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+
+<A HREF="http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/">http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/</A> seems to be the new
+url.
+
+StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+there is no &quot;make install&quot; for unix. Does this matter? I also run low on
+diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut down the size after
+making it?
+
+#checking for freetype-config... no
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+of freetype (which I was to delete).
+
+So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have &quot;.&quot; in it's path.
+Now I try configure as user and get this:
+
+#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+#yes
+#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+
+Now my hour for this day is running out...
+
+The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+wrong and level one is named &quot;./configure&quot; ? ;-P
+
+Tels
+
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ &quot;Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?&quot;
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/thief/">http://bloodgate.com/thief/</A>     Thief - The Dark Project
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/aifilter">http://bloodgate.com/aifilter</A>   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ <A HREF="http://freedomforlinks.de">http://freedomforlinks.de</A>       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc">http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc</A> or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOo+4oncLPEOTuEwVAQEgbwf9GkgUnGjpRdaVlEc9cVgqIh+XfIHUk4+1
+PZUk8ArLuZpRR4RS6Qd7+V6dtwS4QCPGCNswDwB63Ce02DmAOFEE/wCpY/zWPDF+
+Tr2+T+CH3aFYQRrWx1/yG0NQDR4bSCIF0U3ZmzOu+nZPmfix2BWx95YvibAnuwsA
+qoMjVvYJf1LJ5pvPgJ2iIKJ0m/f3TvbMwN2QEoNLqhN/bxcHaIGjtYeEzD3LAc5R
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+=zPt+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a823aaf5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html
@@ -0,0 +1,95 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nevrax_dummy%40bloodgate.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000215.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000206.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</H1>
+    <B>Tels</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax_dummy%40bloodgate.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux">nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:07:20 +0100 (CET)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000206.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#202">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#202">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+On 18-Feb-01 Tels tried to scribble about:
+[snip]
+&gt;<i>#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+</I>&gt;<i>#yes
+</I>&gt;<i>#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+</I>&gt;<i>#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+</I>
+I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ &quot;Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?&quot;
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/thief/">http://bloodgate.com/thief/</A>     Thief - The Dark Project
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/aifilter">http://bloodgate.com/aifilter</A>   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ <A HREF="http://freedomforlinks.de">http://freedomforlinks.de</A>       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc">http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc</A> or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOo/lIHcLPEOTuEwVAQGspQf9Hc5MtFur7l8qgwtMjJ6StaBFSfECyrna
+DlWCJnDo3+kY27sQDOZGP78CeX9Elsf/cFuEgGWZKF2Vp9Qra6un2ESFSLjIDpJS
+skIsTnsQxrvlVIAu1rvuiGqYJ2MebBZJU/oI4fYq6f00nVQRG+H1Hf9LTgkJFgUr
+RBH4vnMVaFQ09AFdmBWAlcSev2c5OdjL75Pd8tXyWDmLfE/Aremsv65jUB/E9Izu
+9mahUulQ3JJaVNDn/6VLTP8IL2I/KE7EDXrFOF7jW4EPak9D6S6hqh5quTScqQ+j
+/5/NSeaNu4c4mmlnWgcvmiyJZisJqm87QnljMzOnWoySHJyCU9vl6w==
+=Bbg8
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#202">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f95afc63
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html
@@ -0,0 +1,83 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link Error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000199.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Link Error</H1>
+    <B>EagleEye</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link Error">eagleeye@flashmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:48:57 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000200.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#203">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a lot like the thing I'm getting... especially the &quot;use
+/nodefaultlib&quot; thing.  I saw that and didn't know what it was referring to,
+or where I would have to &quot;use&quot; it.
+
+I wish someone could help us. :(
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Slistak Shady&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:slistak@hotmail.com">slistak@hotmail.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 2:42 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Link Error
+
+
+&gt;<i> I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is
+</I>current
+&gt;<i> up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help?
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Linking...
+</I>&gt;<i> MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;libcmt.lib&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+</I>&gt;<i> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+</I>&gt;<i> _psaux_module_class
+</I>&gt;<i> Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+</I>&gt;<i> Error executing link.exe.
+</I>&gt;<i> _________________________________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <A HREF="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..021fba84
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jhognon%40chello.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000200.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000205.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</H1>
+    <B>Julien Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jhognon%40chello.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...">jhognon@chello.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:34:48 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000200.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#204">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+(look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+buildings Nel under win32)
+
+&gt;<i> Jared Mark a écrit :
+</I>[...]
+&gt;<i> Here's what it's telling me...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+</I>&gt;<i> ReleaseDebug--------------------
+</I>&gt;<i> Linking...
+</I>&gt;<i> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of
+</I>&gt;<i> other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+</I>&gt;<i> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+</I>&gt;<i> _psaux_module_class
+</I>&gt;<i> MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+</I>&gt;<i> _main
+</I>&gt;<i> ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+</I>&gt;<i> externals
+</I>&gt;<i> Error executing link.exe.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+
+-- 
+HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke    
+
+home 		: <A HREF="mailto:jhognon@chello.fr">jhognon@chello.fr</A>
+university	: <A HREF="mailto:jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr">jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr</A>
+work		: <A HREF="mailto:julien@virtools.com">julien@virtools.com</A>
+
+ICQ number : 36110826
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3a006218
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html
@@ -0,0 +1,96 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000204.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000201.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:04:08 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000204.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000201.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#205">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Okay, that worked... thanks
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Julien Hognon&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:jhognon@chello.fr">jhognon@chello.fr</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 3:34 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i> Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+</I>&gt;<i> (look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+</I>&gt;<i> buildings Nel under win32)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Jared Mark a écrit :
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Here's what it's telling me...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; ReleaseDebug--------------------
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Linking...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; _psaux_module_class
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; _main
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; externals
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Error executing link.exe.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> home : <A HREF="mailto:jhognon@chello.fr">jhognon@chello.fr</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> university : <A HREF="mailto:jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr">jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> work : <A HREF="mailto:julien@virtools.com">julien@virtools.com</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ICQ number : 36110826
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e4388f18
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000202.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000207.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:15:49 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000202.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000207.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#206">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Tels:
+&gt;<i> &gt;#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;#yes
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+</I>
+Wow. And linux kept on working?
+
+On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..80d82f06
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling under Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000206.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000208.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling under Linux</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling under Linux">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:49:15 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000206.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000208.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#207">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#207">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+</I>
+As root :
+
+# mknod /dev/null c 1 3
+# chmod 666 /dev/null
+
+... and it's back to life again !
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f5a48e0b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:viktor%40glaze.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000207.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000209.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Glaze</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:viktor%40glaze.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">viktor@glaze.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:37:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000207.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000209.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#208">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+I have one &quot;small&quot; question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+
+Viktor Godaly
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..59ff716b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html
@@ -0,0 +1,78 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com">
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+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000212.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>EagleEye</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">eagleeye@flashmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:30:26 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000208.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000212.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#209">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Glaze&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:viktor@glaze.se">viktor@glaze.se</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:37 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hello,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I have one &quot;small&quot; question and I hope this is the right place to ask it.
+</I>I
+&gt;<i> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+</I>&gt;<i> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+</I>&gt;<i> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Viktor Godaly
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8aa9dbe3
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html
@@ -0,0 +1,95 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:41 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000193.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Vincent Archer:
+&gt;<i> Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+</I>
+More detail today, as promised :)
+
+&gt;<i> According to Zane:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the website obsolete.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+</I>
+We're still using the published data here, so it should not have been
+a problem. Are you sure you are using the latest data file? There are
+two on the web now, an old (NeL 0.2/Snowballs 0.1) and a new (NeL 0.3
+&amp; Snowballs 0.2) packed format (which is a lot smaller).
+
+If you're using the one that came with the very first release, update. If
+not, then there's something very odd going on. Open a bug then, and we'll
+have a deep look at it.
+
+However, the point you raise is good, because one day we might encounter
+that specific problem. I'm checking exactly how we're going to put it,
+whether in the code/client tree, a specific code/data tree, or a
+fully separate module (since it isn't code per se).
+
+&gt;<i> License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+</I>&gt;<i> a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+</I>&gt;<i> (we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+</I>&gt;<i> license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+</I>&gt;<i> the license from 3DS.
+</I>
+I want to stress &quot;we haven't... yet&quot;. We're trying to find a good solution
+to that problem (which basically boils down to using proprietary software
+right now, which limits our freedom of action, as usual).
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+</I>
+We're working on redoing the way we document things. Doxygen is good,
+but if no one writes documentation for it, it's as instructive as trying
+to learn tu use Unix from just the manual pages.
+
+But that's the usual problem with programming: programmers are interested
+in writing code, not writing prose. We strive to keep them from sliding
+too much in code-only mode :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c57d4267
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gl.h</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000197.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] gl.h</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gl.h">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:51:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000218.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>EagleEye wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+</I>
+There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the &quot;Requirements&quot; section.
+I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on it,
+but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile NeL,
+there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:04:15 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000209.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to EagleEye:
+&gt;<i> I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+</I>&gt;<i> cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+</I>&gt;<i> that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+</I>
+That's not dynamic load balancing if you have to assign servers to a
+specific area. That's merely 'reconfigurable static' :)
+
+Ultima Online did this for their servers. They measured during beta
+a lot of statistics, and created a map of areas for allocation to all
+processors (server being ambiguous here, because their servers were
+multiprocessor boxes). That map could be redone at will, depending on
+the number of processors allocated to a shard. But once the shard was
+started, that was it. The only way to add a processor would be to
+split one area in two, and the whole migration process was hard
+enough that it wasn't worth (their words) the development cost vs the
+number of times it would be used.
+
+True dynamic load would mean that each processor would adjust its
+border (i.e. which objets it manages) according to its load, compared to
+its neighbours. If it has too high a load, then its border would shrink
+along its most lightly loaded neighbour, swapping objects between one
+and the other.
+
+Of course, that means a variable, almost fractal geometry of processors,
+and a processor that, at boot time, was serving city A and its adjacent
+areas could well, four days later, be serving chiefly the mountain range
+5km from there, because of simple &quot;pressure&quot;. It looks nice from a
+strict research standpoint, but it's HELL for system management.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000212.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Glaze:
+&gt;<i> Hello,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I have one &quot;small&quot; question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+</I>&gt;<i> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+</I>&gt;<i> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+</I>&gt;<i> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+</I>
+Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+haven't answered this question.
+
+Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+
+If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+
+We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific &quot;area&quot;,
+which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+each area is strictly separate).
+
+We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+   which process control
+
+What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+And so on.
+
+I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3f1a29c8
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html
@@ -0,0 +1,114 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] RE: Dave Null</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tels%40bloodgate.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000241.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000219.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] RE: Dave Null</H1>
+    <B>Tels</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tels%40bloodgate.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] RE: Dave Null">tels@bloodgate.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:23:23 +0100 (CET)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000241.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+&gt;<i> According to Tels:
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt;#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt;#yes
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt;#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> &gt;#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Wow. And linux kept on working?
+</I>
+Until the next reboot, yes. Linux is more stable than I thought ;o)
+
+&gt;<i> On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+</I>&gt;<i> straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+</I>&gt;<i> as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+</I>
+I booted from rescue disk (thanx suse!), then copied over /dev/zero.
+Unfortunately /dev/null got (why I dunno) 600, so user processes could not
+use it, so I changed it and now it seems to work all again. Whew. Now I
+need more time to figure out Nel.
+
+Cheers,
+
+Tels
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ &quot;Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?&quot;
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/thief/">http://bloodgate.com/thief/</A>     Thief - The Dark Project
+ <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/aifilter">http://bloodgate.com/aifilter</A>   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ <A HREF="http://freedomforlinks.de">http://freedomforlinks.de</A>       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on <A HREF="http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc">http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc</A> or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOpFTWHcLPEOTuEwVAQHoDwf9HlRBrdBXPzN7kMaNXfWAmErVLtAQ6gfO
+dgvT8L3Vu+SRB5+e4Eyn/097WdbrX5eDdG/9mKkdpLmoZc46OdNqQ5uJ0jJD1L+7
+s0/C7mlyV2kZELNC0Xjbaa+Y325iZJiEWEYNOxtycrdKpM6wCUMo3SUz5zYhwfQ4
+HHS7XA8YT9l5MtstCss1bM+Rn1QtJZJegtd/miRKlYivjqxzIbk97FcBmYxYuBEt
+DB45b8D5I1UPxCrQxeiOOrawruECy6mz8k2yLQixK6yyGgocgUy2kHu/a8wyxCh/
+hX0gMninciEXwsKqw0bugskkN0t6adg7vW/LpQ1MLeNPmvZLrHX+RA==
+=Dlhm
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html
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index 00000000..37287313
--- /dev/null
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling under Linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000201.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling under Linux</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling under Linux">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:52:51 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Tels wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/">http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/</A> seems to be the new
+</I>&gt;<i> url.
+</I>
+Try the american mirror web site at <A HREF="http://freetype.sourceforge.net/,">http://freetype.sourceforge.net/,</A> you
+will have access to the all the project home page.
+
+I updated the INSTALL and configure.in file to change tha FreeType
+homepage.
+
+
+&gt;<i> StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+</I>&gt;<i> please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+</I>&gt;<i> there is no &quot;make install&quot; for unix. Does this matter?
+</I>
+NeL is using the SGI iostreams, so i'm afraid that you will have to compile
+it.
+
+
+&gt;<i> I also run low on diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut
+</I>&gt;<i> down the size after making it?
+</I>
+you could do a 'make -f gcc.mak clean' to delete all the ojects files,
+it doesn't delete the library files ...
+
+
+&gt;<i> #checking for freetype-config... no
+</I>&gt;<i> #configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+</I>&gt;<i> #    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+</I>&gt;<i> of freetype (which I was to delete).
+</I>
+That's weird, it works fine for me :o)
+
+The installation line is in the builds/unix/install.mk file (line 51),
+Are you sure that the installation directory (ex: /usr/local/bin) is
+in your path ?
+
+&gt;<i> So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have &quot;.&quot; in it's path.
+</I>&gt;<i> Now I try configure as user and get this:
+</I>
+The script is looking for freetype-config script in your path, it will change
+nothing to put in the NeL directoty, if it isn't in your path ;-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+</I>&gt;<i> for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+</I>&gt;<i> wrong and level one is named &quot;./configure&quot; ? ;-P
+</I>
+Thanks for your suggestion :-)
+
+We actually working on improving the documentation and build process, so it
+&quot;migth&quot; be easier in a near future ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Nahuel Greco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ngreco%40softhome.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">ngreco@softhome.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:01 -0300</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100
+Vincent Archer &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>&gt; wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> According to Glaze:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Hello,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I have one &quot;small&quot; question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+</I>&gt;<i> haven't answered this question.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+</I>&gt;<i> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+</I>&gt;<i> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+
+
+&gt;<i> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+</I>&gt;<i> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+</I>&gt;<i> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+</I>&gt;<i> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific &quot;area&quot;,
+</I>&gt;<i> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+</I>&gt;<i> each area is strictly separate).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+</I>&gt;<i> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+</I>&gt;<i> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+</I>&gt;<i> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+</I>&gt;<i> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+</I>&gt;<i> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+</I>&gt;<i> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+</I>&gt;<i>    which process control
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+</I>&gt;<i> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+</I>&gt;<i> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+</I>&gt;<i> And so on.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+What are the &quot;functional&quot; parts that you will be planning? 
+
+
+How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+
+
+There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+
+
+&gt;<i> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+</I>&gt;<i> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+<A HREF="http://www.codelarvs.com.ar">http://www.codelarvs.com.ar</A>  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:43:59 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+
+By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+or on an even more molecular level (assuming you have a very large world
+with huge database demands) a database service that is strictly dedicated to
+handling certain types of objects (like dynamic world objects such as rocks
+and such, as opposed to character objects like their posessions in their
+backpacks for example).
+
+You would have other servers running the service managers for the AI of the
+monsters, etc, etc, etc...
+
+So instead of dividing up the world into geographical sectors and having a
+single system handle each sector... you would divide the world up into
+different processes, and have each system handle the specific process for
+the entire world.
+
+Let me know if I'm getting pretty close to what you're trying to say here.
+;)  My only question on the whole thing would be... what happens if you run
+into a problem where activity on a process gets to be too much for a
+server... would you be forced to upgrade that server?  Or could you
+theoretically split the process between two systems?  (running the same
+serice twice in the same cluster, on different systems).
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vincent Archer&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 10:33 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+&gt;<i> According to Glaze:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Hello,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I have one &quot;small&quot; question and I hope this is the right place to ask
+</I>it. I
+&gt;<i> &gt; was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to
+</I>balance
+&gt;<i> &gt; the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+</I>&gt;<i> haven't answered this question.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+</I>&gt;<i> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+</I>&gt;<i> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+</I>&gt;<i> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+</I>&gt;<i> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+</I>&gt;<i> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific &quot;area&quot;,
+</I>&gt;<i> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+</I>&gt;<i> each area is strictly separate).
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+</I>&gt;<i> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+</I>&gt;<i> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+</I>&gt;<i> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+</I>&gt;<i> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+</I>&gt;<i> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+</I>&gt;<i> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+</I>&gt;<i>    which process control
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+</I>&gt;<i> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+</I>&gt;<i> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+</I>&gt;<i> And so on.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+</I>&gt;<i> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Vincent Archer                                         Email:
+</I><A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road
+</I>we go!
+&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gl.h</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000211.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] gl.h</H1>
+    <B>EagleEye</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gl.h">eagleeye@flashmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:39 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+under the heading of  &quot;On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+libraries and softwares :&quot;... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+let my mind skip over it. :)
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Valignat Cedric&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:51 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+&gt;<i> EagleEye wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the &quot;Requirements&quot;
+</I>section.
+&gt;<i> I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on
+</I>it,
+&gt;<i> but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile
+</I>NeL,
+&gt;<i> there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Cedric.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000214.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Building a FAQ?</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Building a FAQ?">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:56:00 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000214.html">[Nel] RE: Dave Null</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+What better way to build a FAQ than to have questions that are actually =
+&quot;frequently asked&quot;, right?
+
+Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm not exactly an =
+above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my =
+limited experience and expertise.
+
+1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled, =
+what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE to =
+edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle all =
+game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the core =
+components?
+
+2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, =
+etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you =
+can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software =
+restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank =
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I =
+have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in =
+terms of latteral area?)
+
+That's it for now...=20
+
+Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)
+--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with this stuff still. :)
+
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+Content-Type: text/html;
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+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;What better way to build a FAQ than to have =
+questions that are=20
+actually &quot;frequently asked&quot;, right?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm =
+not exactly=20
+an above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions=20
+that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my limited =
+experience and=20
+expertise.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services =
+packages all=20
+compiled, what do I do with it to actually start building MY =
+world?&amp;nbsp; Do I=20
+HAVE to edit the code and recompile?&amp;nbsp; Or is this package meant to =
+handle=20
+all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the =
+core=20
+components?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;2) What are the limitations on world size, max =
+number of=20
+connections, etc, etc?&amp;nbsp; I understand there are obvious hardware=20
+restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking =
+about=20
+software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a =
+bank=20
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?&amp;nbsp; Will =
+I have=20
+issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of =
+latteral=20
+area?)&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;That's it for now... &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with =
+this stuff=20
+still. :)&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000214.html">[Nel] RE: Dave Null</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4ff8c590
--- /dev/null
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling on Linux....</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:james.hearn%40byu.edu">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000236.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000221.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</H1>
+    <B>James Hearn</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:james.hearn%40byu.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling on Linux....">james.hearn@byu.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:42:40 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#220">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#220">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#220">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#220">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm having trouble getting Nel
+to compile on linux. Or rather, getting the client and server to compile
+on linux. Nel itself compiles. When compiling the client or server
+libraries, I get this error:
+
+/home/james/downloads/STLport-4.0/lib/libstlport_gcc.so: undefined
+reference to `_STL::_Stl_prime&lt;bool&gt;::_M_list'
+
+I have installed the stlport libs and even compiled them (!). 
+I also installed Freetype 2.0 and Mesa 4.0.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+
+James Hearn
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#220">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..999aadf2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html
@@ -0,0 +1,161 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000220.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000222.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:41:44 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000220.html">[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000222.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#221">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#221">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#221">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#221">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+
+I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core =
+engine...
+I then try to get people to play the game...
+People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+but no profit can be made on that...)
+I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of =
+money...
+
+But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can =
+request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's =
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+
+So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my =
+game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my =
+entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the &quot;derivitive works&quot; =
+that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service =
+themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+
+If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the =
+whole &quot;open source&quot; thing...=20
+
+My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want =
+to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort =
+of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a =
+&quot;bigger and better plan&quot; than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT =
+stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+*scratches head*=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I just want to make sure I understand this=20
+right...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I use this source code to build the base of my=20
+game...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I do all sorts of work to make my own game built =
+around this=20
+core engine...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I then try to get people to play the =
+game...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;People get the game (for free, or at least, for the =
+cost of=20
+shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I charge for the monthly service to the game, and =
+make boat=20
+loads of money...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;But then, because of the way this license reads, =
+someone else=20
+can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game =
+that's=20
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;So if all of the above is correct... what is the =
+point of me=20
+making my game using NeL in the first place?&amp;nbsp; When someone can just =
+steal=20
+my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the &quot;derivitive =
+works&quot; that=20
+are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... =
+
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;If I'm completely off here, I appologise.&amp;nbsp; I'm =
+extremely=20
+new to the whole &quot;open source&quot; thing... &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay =
+concepts=20
+that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, =
+or any=20
+sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I =
+consider a=20
+&quot;bigger and better plan&quot; than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this=20
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if =
+I choose=20
+to use NeL as my core code?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;*scratches head*&amp;nbsp;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000220.html">[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c6b8fd2f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html
@@ -0,0 +1,106 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000221.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000223.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Bryce Harrington</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:12:38 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000223.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#222">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#222">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#222">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#222">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+their license.
+
+NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+
+NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+reliability, and customer service.
+
+(This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+
+Bryce
+
+On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+</I>&gt;<i> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+</I>&gt;<i> I then try to get people to play the game...
+</I>&gt;<i> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+</I>&gt;<i> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the &quot;derivitive works&quot; that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole &quot;open source&quot; thing... 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a &quot;bigger and better plan&quot; than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> *scratches head* 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket Scientist
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE iMSDW
+bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @ yahoo.com
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d18393c3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html
@@ -0,0 +1,111 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:james.hearn%40byu.edu">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000222.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000225.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>James Hearn</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:james.hearn%40byu.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">james.hearn@byu.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:32:33 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000222.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000225.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#223">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#223">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#223">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#223">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Bryce Harrington wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+</I>&gt;<i> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+</I>&gt;<i> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+</I>&gt;<i> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+</I>&gt;<i> their license.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+</I>&gt;<i> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+</I>&gt;<i> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+</I>&gt;<i> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+</I>&gt;<i> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+</I>&gt;<i> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+</I>&gt;<i> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+</I>&gt;<i> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+</I>&gt;<i> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+</I>&gt;<i> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+</I>&gt;<i> reliability, and customer service.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+</I>&gt;<i> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Bryce
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I then try to get people to play the game...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the &quot;derivitive works&quot; that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole &quot;open source&quot; thing...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a &quot;bigger and better plan&quot; than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; *scratches head*
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>
+I've been speaking with Jared, and it seems he is not opposed to open
+source. However, he wonders (as do I) where Nel ends and our code
+begins. Does any project using nel have to release *all* of its source
+code? Or just modifications to Nel itself? Modifications to Nel should
+*of course* be open source. It is basically things like game logic that
+Jared is concerned about.
+
+--James Hearn
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:35:48 +0800</I>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+&gt;<i> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+</I>&gt;<i> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+</I>&gt;<i> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+</I>&gt;<i> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+</I>&gt;<i> their license.
+</I>This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+
+&gt;<i> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+</I>&gt;<i> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+</I>&gt;<i> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+</I>&gt;<i> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+</I>&gt;<i> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+</I>&gt;<i> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+</I>&gt;<i> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+</I>In return for giving a good base set of libraries, Nevrax hope to get 
+lots of free contributions to their project. This isn't as evil as it sounds
+since everyone is still free to work on whatever parts they like, and
+hopefully they will remain fairly lenient on what features make it in to the
+repository. (Ie, don't just include what _they_ want. I don't imply
+they should be lenient on content. Be code nazis, keep ugly code out :P)
+Of course, if they behave in a manner you feel is not conducive to
+the spirit of open-source development, you're free to split off your own 
+version of the tree.
+
+&gt;<i> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+</I>&gt;<i> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+</I>&gt;<i> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+</I>&gt;<i> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+</I>&gt;<i> reliability, and customer service.
+</I>
+This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+
+What they do get of course, is that little mod you did to the game engine
+for pretty-as-hell lens effects. Or your modified particle engine
+to accurately model a fireball. Anyone who looks at the current crop of games
+will tell you that it's not this sort of thing that makes or breaks a game.
+
+&gt;<i> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+</I>&gt;<i> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+</I>Yeah, ditto the not associated with Nevrax thing... 
+unless they feel like hiring of course ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>EagleEye</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">eagleeye@flashmail.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:26:46 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering &quot;exactly
+where does their code stop, and my code begin?&quot;
+
+Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+my world.
+
+I can understand sharing a new add-on, such as the ability to use DirectX 8
+with NeL... I can understand adding functionality to the core engine... that
+I wouldn't mind giving up to the general masses.  Heck, I don't care if I
+give up the artwork!  What's important to me is keeping my gameplay designs
+proprietary.  I don't want someone copying my game's LOGIC... because to me,
+that's what will make my game innovative, and will be the main reason people
+will play it.  If I give that up freely, I might as well go for a different
+core package.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Bryce Harrington&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:bryce@neptune.net">bryce@neptune.net</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:12 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+
+
+&gt;<i> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+</I>&gt;<i> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+</I>&gt;<i> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+</I>&gt;<i> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+</I>&gt;<i> their license.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+</I>&gt;<i> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+</I>&gt;<i> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+</I>&gt;<i> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+</I>&gt;<i> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+</I>&gt;<i> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+</I>&gt;<i> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+</I>&gt;<i> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+</I>&gt;<i> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+</I>&gt;<i> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+</I>&gt;<i> reliability, and customer service.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+</I>&gt;<i> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Bryce
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+</I>engine...
+&gt;<i> &gt; I then try to get people to play the game...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+</I>but no profit can be made on that...)
+&gt;<i> &gt; I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+</I>money...
+&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can
+</I>request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+</I>game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire
+game (not just the NeL source, but all of the &quot;derivitive works&quot; that are
+packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves...
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the
+</I>whole &quot;open source&quot; thing...
+&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want
+</I>to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of
+innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a &quot;bigger
+and better plan&quot; than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I
+choose to use NeL as my core code?
+&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; *scratches head*
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket
+</I>Scientist
+&gt;<i> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
+</I>----
+&gt;<i> SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE
+</I>iMSDW
+&gt;<i> bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @
+</I>yahoo.com
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Sal</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:svferro%40earthlink.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">svferro@earthlink.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:50:42 -0500</I>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+</I>&gt;<i> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+</I>&gt;<i> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+</I>engine...
+&gt;<i> I then try to get people to play the game...
+</I>&gt;<i> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+</I>but no profit can be made on
+&gt;<i> that...)
+</I>
+    The last point isn't necessarily true.  You could likely sell your game
+for as much as you want.  As Red Hat sells Linux.  The GPL only insures that
+the source code to the binaries in your distribution must be made available.
+It doesn't cover the media you make, the documentation you write. People
+don't have the right to redistribute your custom media, or your custom game
+manuals.  Downloading the binary still won't grant you ability to play the
+game... you need the media.  Which is where the advantage is in the GPL game
+market in comparison to something like an operating system, such as Linux.
+
+    In short, you can still make money off of a GPL game.  Though I would
+rather see companies release all their artwork under an opencontent license,
+they don't have to.
+
+&gt;<i> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+</I>money...
+
+&gt;<i> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request
+</I>the entire source code to
+&gt;<i> my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people
+</I>to use it just like I am
+&gt;<i> doing...
+</I>
+    If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+would have to be redistributed, but you could create pretty unique worlds
+and plots by simply editing some serverside database.  Which entails
+creating maps, placing NPCs, possibly even defining rules such as what
+skills players have.
+
+    I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+be copywritten material.
+
+    And if you were able to modify the Nel code to make a better game...
+then someone that uses your code could likely make a better game yet. And
+the code that they created, you could use yet again in your own server.
+Opensource has many advantages related to software quality. Imagine how many
+people would be working to fix bugs and improve the codebase that is
+powering your world, in comparison to a proprietary codebase.
+
+&gt;<i> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+</I>game using
+&gt;<i> NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not
+</I>just
+&gt;<i> the NeL source, but all of the &quot;derivitive works&quot; that are packaged with
+</I>it as a
+&gt;<i> whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of
+</I>the loop
+&gt;<i> entirely.
+</I>
+    I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+(not artwork, media. documentation, rules, etc.).  And I think its fair that
+you would be required to release your source changes, since its the hard
+work of others that makes your game possible, and they just want to make
+sure that your code improvements to their product will be made available.
+
+    Again, your game could have plenty of copywritten material that would
+not be easily 'stolen', and in fact, would be the equivalent of stealing the
+ruleset and media from an proprietary game, such as Asheron's Call or
+Everquest.  Which is prosecutable.
+
+    Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+
+    I also could not sell CD's of Everquest, because in order for their
+client to be useful it needs all the copywritten material that comes on the
+Everquest CD.
+
+&gt;<i> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+</I>&quot;open source&quot;
+&gt;<i> thing...
+</I>
+&gt;<i> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to
+</I>implement...
+&gt;<i> having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative
+</I>programming...
+&gt;<i> I have plot, and I have what I consider a &quot;bigger and better plan&quot; than
+</I>anything UO or
+&gt;<i> EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I
+</I>have to give all of
+&gt;<i> THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+</I>
+    Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+_everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+libraries used in conjunction with them.
+
+    I'm not a lawyer, by any means. But I have some experience in developing
+opensource gaming software. I think a lot of people share the same
+misconceptions, which is why I felt compelled to reply.  I'm of the opinion
+that opensource and games are a perfect match.  Its really a no-lose
+situation, if you're thinking of developing your own game.
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Bryce Harrington</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:45:30 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+&gt;<i> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; their license.
+</I>&gt;<i> This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+</I>&gt;<i> would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+</I>&gt;<i> even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+</I>&gt;<i> game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+</I>&gt;<i> it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+</I>&gt;<i> the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+</I>
+That's true; I meant only the IP additions to the NEL sourcecode, which
+appeared to be what the original poster was interested in.  As Sal said,
+the game content would be handled differently.
+
+I'm less sure of the rules regarding dynamic linking and scripting.  I
+think &quot;linking is linking&quot;, so the former would fall under GPL rules,
+whereas the latter I would hazard to guess falls more into the &quot;content&quot;
+category and thus can be arbitrarily licensed.  But this seems like a
+very grey area, and seeking out ways to get around the author's intents
+and use their work on terms of dubious legality doesn't seem like a
+kosher thing to do.  
+
+In any case, you can always try negotiating with Nevrax for special
+licensing terms; I'm sure they're open to making more money.  ;-)
+ 
+Bryce
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] gl.h</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gl.h">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:45:20 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000218.html">[Nel] gl.h</A></li>
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+<PRE>EagleEye wrote:
+&gt;<i> Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+</I>&gt;<i> under the heading of  &quot;On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+</I>&gt;<i> libraries and softwares :&quot;... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+</I>&gt;<i> let my mind skip over it. :)
+</I>
+You right, it isn't very clear, i going to fix that ... :-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:56:54 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+&gt;<i> Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+</I>&gt;<i> different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+</I>&gt;<i> would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+</I>&gt;<i> and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+</I>
+We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+
+The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+think.
+
+One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+(?)
+
+Best regards,
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |     
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>According to Thierry Mallard:
+&gt;<i> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+</I>
+Basically, yes. It may be more complicated than this. For example, we must
+strive to keep only a single service handling items, while we may run
+multiple concurrent instances of AI services to have lots of smart bots.
+
+&gt;<i> We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+</I>&gt;<i> doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+</I>&gt;<i> world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+</I>
+It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+modes.
+
+&gt;<i> The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+</I>&gt;<i> respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+</I>&gt;<i> think.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+</I>&gt;<i> computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+</I>&gt;<i> process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+</I>
+It is. In fact, a lot of services will be spread across different nodes,
+but that's because these services are 'linear': each agent it manages
+deals chiefly with itself. On the other hand, some are harder to split.
+Item management for example, because of ownership and transfer issues:
+if item A is owner by entity E, and all items of entity E are on server S1,
+what happens when item is given to entity D, whose items are all on the
+server S2. You break locality, which defeats the purpose of functional
+services.
+
+However, for load balancing purpose, one feature of functional split is
+quite simple. If your item server, for example, manages 300,000 currently
+present items, it doesn't matter if everyone currently on-line decides
+to cluster in a single city: there are still 300,000 items to manage, and
+the amount of item interactions haven't changed much.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>According to Nahuel Greco:
+&gt;<i> You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+</I>
+Not CORBA. As I said, 'a kind of ORB approach'. Not a straight lift
+from existing solutions, who are nice from a development point of view,
+but whose features are too generic and too heavy for optimisation.
+
+&gt;<i> What are the &quot;functional&quot; parts that you will be planning? 
+</I>
+I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+but you'll have chiefly:
+- access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+  requests)
+- PC manager services
+- combat services
+- item services
+- databaser service (only one)
+- pathfinding services
+- bots service (AI)
+- magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+  other services as exceptions to their rules)
+
+then some geographic-based services
+
+- ecology managers
+- state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+  ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+  all it does)
+
+and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+
+I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+agent for some cases.
+
+&gt;<i> How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+</I>&gt;<i> in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+</I>&gt;<i> enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+</I>&gt;<i> the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+</I>
+We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+while you were away).
+
+Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+
+&gt;<i> There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+</I>
+The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+moves).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Nahuel Greco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ngreco%40softhome.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">ngreco@softhome.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:19:04 -0300</I>
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+<PRE>On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100
+Vincent Archer &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>&gt; wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+</I>&gt;<i> but you'll have chiefly:
+</I>&gt;<i> - access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+</I>&gt;<i>   requests)
+</I>&gt;<i> - PC manager services
+</I>&gt;<i> - combat services
+</I>
+I must switch to combat mode in the game?, i mean, when i combat, the scenary
+and the gameplay changes, like in the PSX rpg games?
+
+&gt;<i> - item services
+</I>&gt;<i> - databaser service (only one)
+</I>&gt;<i> - pathfinding services
+</I>&gt;<i> - bots service (AI)
+</I>&gt;<i> - magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+</I>&gt;<i>   other services as exceptions to their rules)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+If the bots service want to pathfind to some location, they must ask to the
+pathfinding service?, and the pathfinding service must ask to the &quot;state
+tracking&quot; ?, suposse that i have a bot script, running in the bot service, 
+in some routine i must see if i can walk to some location, on the nort, on the
+ south, etc, to decide later where i will walk.. then.. each bot script 
+get_is_reachable() function will trigger a query to another service, and must 
+wait the response of that service  to continue the code execution.
+
+for thousands of scripts, that will be too slow, without thinking in the
+&quot;wait, is your query is in the queque&quot; issue.
+
+
+and btw, what scripting language do you plan to use for the code that will
+execute in thousand of instances..?
+
+
+
+&gt;<i> then some geographic-based services
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - ecology managers
+</I>
+That will instantiate, for example.. more gold to keep the economy ok ?
+
+
+&gt;<i> - state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+</I>&gt;<i>   ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+</I>&gt;<i>   all it does)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+</I>&gt;<i> agent for some cases.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+</I>&gt;<i> various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+</I>&gt;<i> this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+</I>&gt;<i> is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+</I>&gt;<i> while you were away).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+</I>&gt;<i> complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+</I>&gt;<i> agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+</I>&gt;<i> the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+</I>&gt;<i> migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+</I>&gt;<i> by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+</I>&gt;<i> moves).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> -- 
+</I>&gt;<i> Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+<A HREF="http://www.codelarvs.com.ar">http://www.codelarvs.com.ar</A>  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Nahuel Greco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ngreco%40softhome.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">ngreco@softhome.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:21:38 -0300</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100
+Vincent Archer &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>&gt; wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+</I>&gt;<i> fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+</I>&gt;<i> if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+</I>&gt;<i> modes.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+the zones are fixed or dynamic?
+
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+<A HREF="http://www.codelarvs.com.ar">http://www.codelarvs.com.ar</A>  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:36:33 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>Wow, lots of questions.
+
+Ok, I'll try to summarise the replies to your points, without too much
+dilution. Bear with me, this is quite long, but I'll try to be as
+unambiguous as possible.
+
+Jared Mark said:
+&gt;<i> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+</I>&gt;<i> but no profit can be made on that...)
+</I>
+Point one: As explained somewhere else, the GPL make software &quot;free&quot; as
+in &quot;freedom&quot;, not &quot;free&quot; as in &quot;free of charge&quot;. You can pretty well make
+as much money as you want from your own game. The only thing is, if
+someone who got the program requests it, you have to give them access to
+the source for no more than reproduction costs on a &quot;standard support&quot;
+(i.e. giving only printouts of the code doesn't count) and shipping charges.
+
+Usually, people preventively put it on a download site somewhere, so
+they don't have to handle code requests on an individual basis. But
+that's not mandated.
+
+There are also other strings attached, namely, if you use that source
+you got to build a program which you distribute, you also have to provide
+the modified *OR* original (if unmodified) source under the same license
+terms.
+
+So:
+&gt;<i> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+</I>
+Eagle Eye said:
+&gt;<i> Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering &quot;exactly
+</I>&gt;<i> where does their code stop, and my code begin?&quot;
+</I>
+But what is code exactly? Code is the little thingy that makes a lens
+flare when looking toward the sun. Code is the special multipurpose
+network protocol that communicate reliably across the Internet (ahem).
+Code is the state automaton engine that handles your mobs.
+
+Code is not the 1000-line table of all items and their stats. Code is not
+the list of states and transitions a mob (btw, if anyone wonders about that
+term, it's an old MUD term for 'mobile object', i.e. all autonomous entities
+in the game that have a behaviour, as opposed as just having properties).
+Code is not the glossy metal and rivets texture on your door. Code is not
+the wondrous mocaped triple head kick to smash a skull. Code is not the
+cuckoo sound you hear while walking thru a forest in game.
+
+The GPL doesn't cover these parts at all.
+
+Bryce Harrington said:
+&gt;<i> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+</I>&gt;<i> releasing their source code
+</I>
+Minor nitpick: It's Nevrax, not NeL. NeL is the library, not the
+company :)
+
+But that's the gist of it. We do offer the code under a GPL license,
+but we retain the traditional copyright on our intellectual property.
+
+So, we don't want your game design. We can't get your game design.
+It's all yours. But if you add code to run a game using sensor gloves as
+the user interface and 3D glasses, then we have a right to request the
+code for that. We can then reuse the &quot;HOW&quot; you use them to play, but not
+the &quot;WHY&quot; you use them. How is code. Why is your game design.
+
+Eagle Eye said:
+&gt;<i> Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+</I>&gt;<i> myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+</I>&gt;<i> the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+</I>&gt;<i> handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+</I>&gt;<i> about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+</I>&gt;<i> my world.
+</I>
+Hmm, we have a little legal problem there. It's basically straight copyright
+law.
+
+Basically, you cannot copyright an idea. It's got nothing to do with whether
+NeL is GPL or a $1,000,000 licensed game engine, so don't let NeL's license
+stop you.
+
+You cannot copyright an idea. To take an example, let's say you're using
+a system of skill trees that are enabled by pre-required skills, level
+and required characteristics combinations, so that the &quot;Accurate Eye Shot&quot;
+skill requires Marksmanship, a level of 17, and a minimum dexterity of 38.
+
+You cannot prevent anyone from using a system of skill trees that require...
+(you get the gist). However, you can forbid anyone from using a set of
+skills that basically is a copy of yours. They have to make their own set
+of skills, and make them different &quot;enough&quot;. That's where it gets tricky.
+The &quot;enough&quot; part is usually settled by court when there's a dispute.
+Merely renaming &quot;Accurate Eye Shot&quot; by &quot;Advanced Bowmanship&quot; doesn't
+count (usually), but the frontier between &quot;my skill trees&quot; and &quot;your
+skill trees&quot; isn't a straight and obvious line.
+
+To take a known analogy, copyright law doesn't prevent you from doing a
+novel set in the south during the civil war, with romance, and all that.
+However, copyright law will prevent you from calling your main character
+&quot;Scarlett O'Hara&quot;.
+
+Leighton Haynes said:
+&gt;<i> This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+</I>&gt;<i> 'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+</I>&gt;<i> but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+</I>&gt;<i> which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+</I>&gt;<i> and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+</I>
+&quot;You have entered Ankh Morpok north&quot;. :)
+
+(sorry for the obscure MUD reference. I do hope people will recognise it)
+
+To get back to the initial post
+&gt;<i> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I
+</I>&gt;<i> want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or
+</I>&gt;<i> any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I
+</I>&gt;<i> consider a &quot;bigger and better plan&quot; than anything UO or EQ or AC have
+</I>&gt;<i> ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give
+</I>&gt;<i> all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+</I>
+Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+flag flying at the top of the keep.
+
+But not the &quot;there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+other&quot; part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+
+&gt;<i> *scratches head* 
+</I>
+/em massages Jared's shoulders.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:55:20 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>Well, you summarised my summaries...
+
+According to Sal:
+&gt;<i>     If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+</I>&gt;<i> located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+</I>
+There are probably a few minor code modifications, required to support
+very specific rules (if you want to run elections, the code for booths
+and all that is probably hard code). But, if we've done our design right,
+most of a MMORPG design should be a matter of fiddling data.
+
+&gt;<i>     I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+</I>&gt;<i> that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+</I>&gt;<i> they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+</I>&gt;<i> be copywritten material.
+</I>
+Not &quot;could&quot;. Is. It's automatic and non-debatable. When you write it,
+it is automatically covered by copyright, and you have to explicitely
+put it in the public domain (which is not *that* easy). With the
+provision about plot; as I explained before, a plot cannot be
+copyrighted, while specifics are. You can't copyright &quot;evil arch-villain
+wants to overthrow king&quot;, you can only copyright &quot;Mezzo Kharkan wants
+to overthrow king Ariflax&quot;.
+
+(hmmm, if I have infringed some copyright here, it's purely unintentional,
+ and was only for purpose of citation. Honest)
+
+&gt;<i>     I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+</I>
+In the GPL text, yes. Derivative works refer to code. GPL says exactly
+nothing about data, so it's not covered by the license.
+
+&gt;<i>     Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+</I>&gt;<i> they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+</I>&gt;<i> out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+</I>&gt;<i> would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+</I>&gt;<i> that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+</I>
+That's a good example. However (assuming Everquest code was GPL), once
+you'd produced a set of player and NPC models, and made a few zone files
+under a 3D modeller, and created your own items, you'd be able
+to launch Realquest.
+
+And try to put them out of business :)
+
+&gt;<i>     Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+</I>&gt;<i> _everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+</I>&gt;<i> which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+</I>&gt;<i> libraries used in conjunction with them.
+</I>
+By FSF's own admission, the source of any library &quot;not commonly available
+with the system&quot;. Otherwise, we'd have to provide the Nvidia OpenGL driver
+sources if we wanted to run our game on a Nvidia-equipped PC :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Building a FAQ?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Building a FAQ?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:00:00 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>According to Jared Mark:
+&gt;<i> 1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled,
+</I>&gt;<i> what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE
+</I>&gt;<i> to edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle
+</I>&gt;<i> all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the
+</I>&gt;<i> core components?
+</I>
+Well, what you now have is a very small client, so don't expect to run a
+RPG using that :)
+
+But essentially, yes. You now have to fire off your favorite 3D modeller
+and start making your own world (then, later get or write a converter to
+generate our map format), or, if you find the current world fine... start
+working on additional code to implement your features.
+
+&gt;<i> 2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of latteral area?)
+</I>
+Basically? None. We haven't put any specific restriction. Bank accounts
+aren't implemented yet, so they don't overflow :)
+
+There are additional design decisions about the game I can't get into,
+but, regarding map size for example, we do not have any restriction.
+Apart from our capacity to produce them and the limitations on the
+support for distribution (if we have to install 10Gb on your HD, it's
+probably too much).
+
+As a comparison, the artic icefield distributed with Snowballs covers
+2.5km by 1.3, and we do expect to have a pair of PCs handle every services
+regarding such a game area and about 50-100 active players.
+
+(of course, that depends a LOT on how those services are sollicited, which
+ ties directly into game play)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:38:51 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000251.html">[Nel] System specs</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+Jared Mark escribió:
+
+&gt;<i> I just want to make sure I understand this right... I use this source
+</I>&gt;<i> code to build the base of my game...I do all sorts of work to make my
+</I>&gt;<i> own game built around this core engine...I then try to get people to
+</I>&gt;<i> play the game...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> #Sound easy, it is hard.
+</I>&gt;<i>  People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping
+</I>&gt;<i> it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> #Fucking HTML messages!!!
+</I>&gt;<i> #Ok, with GPL you can sell it and make money but you CAN'T forbid the
+</I>&gt;<i> buyer to sell, copy, or hire it.
+</I>&gt;<i>  I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+</I>&gt;<i> money...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> #And why people would pay for your service!?
+</I>&gt;<i> #It isn't a easy thing But then, because of the way this license
+</I>&gt;<i> reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set
+</I>&gt;<i> up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use
+</I>&gt;<i> it just like I am doing... So if all of the above is correct... what
+</I>&gt;<i> is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When
+</I>&gt;<i> someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but
+</I>&gt;<i> all of the &quot;derivitive works&quot; that are packaged with it as a whole),
+</I>&gt;<i> and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the
+</I>&gt;<i> loop entirely.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> #Well, the code is GPL, but the GFX, SFX, History, and so aren't GPL
+</I>&gt;<i> so you can't copy them. ( isn't this true? )
+</I>&gt;<i> #Someone don't steal but derive the work, if this happens you have two
+</I>&gt;<i> options:
+</I>&gt;<i> #a) Forgive your project and join then
+</I>&gt;<i> #b) Use their modifications ( that are GPL ) to make yours better. If
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;open source&quot; thing...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> # Well, Open Source is like Fire for the Primitive mens. Someone scary
+</I>&gt;<i> and others just get hot near it.
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Dave Turner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:23:47 -0500</I>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>EagleEye wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; flag flying at the top of the keep.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; But not the &quot;there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; other&quot; part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+</I>&gt;<i> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+</I>&gt;<i> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+</I>&gt;<i> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+</I>&gt;<i> (because it's open source) and just &quot;compile and run&quot; my entire world.  I
+</I>&gt;<i> don't care about the technology stuff, like those special gloves, or 3D
+</I>&gt;<i> goggle implementation... I just want it so that if someone wants to copy
+</I>&gt;<i> that skill tree of mine, they have to copy it from the ground up.  Not just
+</I>&gt;<i> grab my source and say &quot;Okay, it's mine now.&quot;  I'm not talking about
+</I>&gt;<i> copyrights...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Look at it this way... I am copying some of the concepts from any number of
+</I>&gt;<i> other MUDs, MMOLRPGs, and such... the concept of player housing is in Ultima
+</I>&gt;<i> Online... I'm copying that, and making it better... What I'm not doing is
+</I>&gt;<i> taking their source code for how they implemented it, and using it for my
+</I>&gt;<i> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+</I>&gt;<i> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+</I>&gt;<i> some of their own effort to make their &quot;copy of my ideas&quot; a reality.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; *scratches head*
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; /em massages Jared's shoulders.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hehe, thanks. :)
+</I>
+
+If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+there?  Remember that any improvements they make will go back to you
+(excluding the ASP loophole, but we're ignoring that).  Also, they will
+have to give you credit (you have the copyright on your parts).  So, why
+make them repeat the work?  Isn't that just a waste of their time? 
+Also, if they have to redo it, they won't have to release their stuff,
+so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+up, rather than really innovating.  
+
+I understand that you want your world to be unique - one way you can do
+this is by having a less free license on media.  This is what Nevrax is
+doing.  Another way is to not release your plots - after all, plot is
+what makes a game (or ought to).  Remember, nobody will play a game that
+is just like yours, but without your creativity.  
+
+You can make money on free software, even sticking with the GPL.  RMS
+did it for years, RedHat does it, Cygnus did it (now, RH owns them).  I
+suggest that you seriously consider the benefits of free software from a
+totally open mind - trying to think of it from a different point of view
+- not &quot;How can I lock world up?&quot;, but &quot;How can I make my players
+happier?&quot;
+
+I think you'll find that even among proprietary games, the most open
+games had the best results - look at how customizable the Quake series
+is.
+
+Just my 2 cents.
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+&quot;It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures&quot; - Pug
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:28:01 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000233.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+&gt;<i> [... case of zone server failure ...]
+</I>&gt;<i> Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+</I>&gt;<i> will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+</I>
+The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+which is supposed to take over.
+
+I'm still trying to get up to date with NeL design, so I dunno yet how the
+data are/will be stored.
+
+
+	Best regards,
+
+		Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |     
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:21:23 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000240.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Thierry Mallard:
+&gt;<i> On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; [... case of zone server failure ...]
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+</I>&gt;<i> currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+</I>&gt;<i> which is supposed to take over.
+</I>
+That's what you get with a purely geographic design, like EQ/UO design.
+When a zone fails, you get kicked out, everything you gained since your last
+save is lost, and when you return, every single critter has respawned. All
+state is lost, since all state was located in a single process.
+
+With a functional approach, all game entities are &quot;holographic&quot;
+regarding to storage. They're a kind of &quot;cloud&quot; of various agents located
+on various services. If a geographic server dies, you get suddendly
+a kind of fog for a while. Another service starts up, gets back information
+about what critters are where from the AI services, where all players are
+from the various player services, and what items are grown where from the
+ecology services. It takes a little time, but you recover more
+gracefully.
+
+The same occurs if an AI server dies. Those critters that were managed
+by that service freezes, but then another service takes them over. They
+will probably forget a lot of what they were doing, but they don't &quot;depop&quot;,
+since the geography service knows that there's that kind of beast
+that was located there.
+
+Of course there are services that are more critical than other. If a login
+service dies, all players using it are kicked out forcefully. If the
+item manager dies, your inventory locks up completely (but you still look
+like yourself, can move around, and talk).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..6b015e9b
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+   <H1>[Nel] maybe bug</H1>
+    <B>jaleco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw"
+       TITLE="[Nel] maybe bug">jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:37:46 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am wrong.
+
+file moves.cpp=20
+     auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; cf2( new CConfigFile() );
+    auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; cf( new CConfigFile() );
+seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content when leave local =
+stack.
+but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this will cause bad =
+thing .
+did it ?
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Dbig5&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am =
+wrong.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;file moves.cpp &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; auto_ptr&amp;lt;CConfigFile&amp;gt; =
+cf2( new=20
+CConfigFile() );&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; auto_ptr&amp;lt;CConfigFile&amp;gt; cf( =
+new=20
+CConfigFile() );&lt;BR&gt;seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content =
+when=20
+leave local stack.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this =
+will=20
+cause bad thing .&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;did it ?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0--
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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new file mode 100644
index 00000000..06ff9c18
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000243.html
@@ -0,0 +1,135 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:26:14 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000239.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>EagleEye wrote:
+&gt;<i> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+</I>&gt;<i> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+</I>&gt;<i> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+</I>&gt;<i> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+</I>&gt;<i> (because it's open source) and just &quot;compile and run&quot; my entire world.  I
+</I>...
+&gt;<i> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+</I>&gt;<i> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+</I>&gt;<i> some of their own effort to make their &quot;copy of my ideas&quot; a reality.
+</I>
+One important thing to know is, until you have released something, you are
+under no obligation to put any source available. The GPL doesn't prevent
+you from doing anything privately. It just says, &quot;once other people run it,
+you have to share the source&quot;. So do not worry about not being the first.
+
+There's also a fact that, even if you release your server code, without
+the data it holds, it's worthless. You speak of plot, of situations,
+of recipes for game dynamics. All this (reread my message) isn't code.
+It's data. You might have a few specific bits here and there of code,
+but it's chiefly scripts that say how mobs react, items, events and code
+tables, and all that.
+
+To take another analogy: You are now mandated to release your network
+MP3 player source. You are not mandated to release any of the MP3 you
+composed.
+
+That ties into another typical false belief about modern game design.
+Code isn't what makes your game. Data is. A typical game development
+team often features twice, or three times as many artists, level
+designers, and game designers as pure coders. All that data production
+isn't in the GPL. Apart from the level proper (i.e. art), none of it
+never ever needs to appear on any site. And that's what makes the game.
+
+According to Dave Turner:
+&gt;<i> If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+</I>&gt;<i> their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+</I>
+Hmm, that's not reassuring the guy who's just said he did NOT want
+somebody doing that :)
+
+&gt;<i> so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+</I>&gt;<i> up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+</I>&gt;<i> up, rather than really innovating.  
+</I>
+That's the real clincher, of course. If all they are doing is taking
+your game, and running it under their name, then:
+
+1) They're going to be second on the market
+2) They're going to be late in coming, because they WILL have to spend a
+   lot of time redoing your internal game data
+
+If this is a commercial endeavour, the only way they can expect to
+attract customers is if they do it a lot cheaper than you do.
+
+That's where the real fun begins. People have to realise the difference
+in paradigm between making, say, a Starcraft, and making a Shadowbane.
+Running an on-line game isn't a software industry, it's a SERVICE
+industry. The main costs isn't creating the game, it's dwarfed by
+the cost of running it. A classic game costs $40 to buy. An on-line
+game typically costs $150 if you play it for a year. Do you think
+this means you've made $100 profits on the game? No. What this means
+is that you've invested $100 in the game, the distributor got paid $20,
+and got $30 profit, instead of investing $10, giving $20 in distribution
+cost and getting $10 profit.
+
+Those $100 invested are about $25 in game dev (heavier than classic games)
+and $75 in infrastructure (server, bandwidth, customer service).
+
+(that's simplistic, but it's relatively representative of what's behind
+ an online game)
+
+Your competitor will reduce its investment, but the infrastructure costs
+remain not only identical, but the MAIN factor in costs. Forcing your
+competitor to maintain its price close to yours.
+
+In other words, stealing your game to run a competiting business isn't
+a major problem. And if it becomes one, you have legal recourse against
+them. After all, they copied your copyrighted works (the game data).
+Why go to the investment of making a massive world, if you open yourself
+to lawsuit.
+
+And anyway, if you want to make an immense effort designing everything
+by yourself, your counterfactor will still gain a lot of time, because
+*he* will use NeL to catch up on code quickly :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..44b367cf
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html
@@ -0,0 +1,47 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <H1>[Nel] System specs</H1>
+    <B>Charles Dupont</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:duponc%40rpi.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] System specs">duponc@rpi.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:39:39 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000243.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>How much
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..adb9f60c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html
@@ -0,0 +1,63 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] System specs</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000251.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] System specs</H1>
+    <B>Charles Dupont</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:duponc%40rpi.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] System specs">duponc@rpi.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:45:07 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000244.html">[Nel] System specs</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000251.html">[Nel] System specs</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Charles Dupont wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> How much
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>Sorry hit the send button acidentaly.  On to the question.
+
+How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+when your service is up and running?
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..33340577
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html
@@ -0,0 +1,102 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000242.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000250.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Link error</H1>
+    <B>Jason Dominiczak</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link error">jdominiczak@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:17:10 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000242.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000250.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+While compiling the client workspace, I get an error at the end.  I'm a =
+Java programmer just looking into Nel and am very impressed.  If someone =
+could just shed some light on how to resolve this error:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2920.0&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;While compiling the client workspace, I =
+get an=20
+error at the end.&amp;nbsp; I'm a Java programmer just looking into Nel and =
+am very=20
+impressed.&amp;nbsp; If someone could just shed some light on how to resolve =
+this=20
+error:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib =
+&quot;LIBCMT&quot;=20
+conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library&lt;BR&gt;freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class&lt;BR&gt;Release/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;-Jay&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c8c2f8ee
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html
@@ -0,0 +1,100 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] maybe bug</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000259.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000248.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] maybe bug</H1>
+    <B>jaleco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw"
+       TITLE="[Nel] maybe bug">jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:36 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000259.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#247">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#247">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I have do follow modify to time_service.cpp
+so it will not crash=20
+ /* CConfigFile cf;
+  cf.load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D cf.getVar (&quot;UniTime&quot;);
+  modify by  jaleco
+  */
+       CConfigFile *cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;
+  cf-&gt;load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D cf-&gt;getVar (&quot;UniTime&quot;);
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Dbig5&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I have do follow modify to =
+time_service.cpp&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;so it will not crash &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&amp;nbsp;/*&amp;nbsp;CConfigFile cf;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;cf.load =
+
+(ConfigFileName);&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;amp;v =3D =
+cf.getVar=20
+(&quot;UniTime&quot;);&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp; modify by=20
+&amp;nbsp;jaleco&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;*/&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nb=
+sp;CConfigFile=20
+*cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;cf-&amp;gt;load=20
+(ConfigFileName);&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;amp;v =3D =
+cf-&amp;gt;getVar=20
+(&quot;UniTime&quot;);&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540--
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..dd712e63
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html
@@ -0,0 +1,85 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] agent service</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000247.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000249.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] agent service</H1>
+    <B>jaleco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw"
+       TITLE="[Nel] agent service">jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:33:47 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+how to get python15_d.dll
+since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Dbig5&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;how to get python15_d.dll&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;since I have download from &lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.python.org"">http://www.python.org&quot;</A>&gt;www.python.org&lt;/A&gt; but it don't have =
+debug=20
+version.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;where to find it ?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0--
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#248">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#248">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#248">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#248">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..647a8f72
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html
@@ -0,0 +1,149 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] agent service</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000248.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000252.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] agent service</H1>
+    <B>sameh chafik Pro</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] agent service">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:55:07 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#249">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#249">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#249">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#249">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Well it do'nt exist!
+I you are passion you can compile&amp;link it else change the reference =
+library in the config.h.
+
+For that open the config.h in the include python directory and change =
+the:
+
+#pragma comment(lib,&quot;python16_d.lib&quot;)=20
+
+on
+
+#pragma comment(lib,&quot;python16.lib&quot;)
+
+That all.
+
+I use the python 1.6 and in my config i have the #pragma =
+comment(lib,&quot;python16_d.lib&quot;) at line 220.
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: jaleco=20
+  To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>=20
+  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:33 AM
+  Subject: [Nel] agent service
+
+
+  how to get python15_d.dll
+  since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+  where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Dbig5&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4134.600&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Well it do'nt exist!&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I you are passion you can =
+compile&amp;amp;link=20
+it&amp;nbsp;else change the reference library in the config.h.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;For that open the config.h in the =
+include python=20
+directory and &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;change =
+the:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;#pragma comment(lib,&quot;python16_d.lib&quot;) =
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;on&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;#pragma =
+comment(lib,&quot;python16.lib&quot;)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;That all.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I use the python 1.6 and in my config i =
+have the=20
+#pragma comment(lib,&quot;python16_d.lib&quot;) at line 220.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D&quot;PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV=20
+  style=3D&quot;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;From:&lt;/B&gt;=20
+  &lt;A title=<A HREF="mailto:3Djaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw">3Djaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw</A>=20
+  href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw">jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw</A>&quot;&gt;jaleco&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;To:&lt;/B&gt; &lt;A title=<A HREF="mailto:3Dnel@nevrax.org">3Dnel@nevrax.org</A>=20
+  href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&quot;&gt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Sent:&lt;/B&gt; Thursday, February 22, =
+2001 10:33=20
+  AM&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Subject:&lt;/B&gt; [Nel] agent =
+service&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;how to get python15_d.dll&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;since I have download from &lt;A=20
+  href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.python.org"">http://www.python.org&quot;</A>&gt;www.python.org&lt;/A&gt; but it don't have =
+debug=20
+  version.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;where to find it =
+?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e44b6352
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000246.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000255.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Link error</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link error">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:15 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000246.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#250">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#250">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#250">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#250">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+</I>&gt;<i> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _psaux_module_class
+</I>&gt;<i> Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+</I>
+Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+
+Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+
+
+Sorry about that,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000246.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#250">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#250">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9ca5ce89
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html
@@ -0,0 +1,65 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] System specs</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000245.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000237.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] System specs</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] System specs">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:56:34 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000245.html">[Nel] System specs</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#251">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#251">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#251">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#251">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Charles Dupont:
+&gt;<i> How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+</I>&gt;<i> when your service is up and running?
+</I>
+About an OC12 (655Mbits) per user.
+
+Ooops, sorry, was thinking about the pan-sensorial version with direct
+neural feed for complete immersion :)
+
+By design, we want to restrict the bandwidth to at most what a user with
+a 57.6K modem can 'swallow' realistically, which means a bandwidth
+of compressed data that tops at around 4Kbytes/s (or 32Kbits/s).
+
+Multiply by the number of simultaneous people a cluster has to serve,
+which we aim at around 3000-3500 players, and you get a little under
+an OC4 per cluster (about 110Mbits) for theoretical peak usage.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000245.html">[Nel] System specs</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#251">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#251">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#251">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a3922258
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html
@@ -0,0 +1,104 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cado%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000249.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000253.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Cado</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cado%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">cado@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:41:12 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#252">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#252">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#252">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#252">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>We are very pleased that you are interested by NeL and our project.
+Thanks to free software, we are now working in cooperation with the
+community. So let's discuss some network issues.
+
+Here is the purpose of this message:
+- Present the future of the NeL Network Engine
+- Ask for your input on a couple of points
+
+At present, the Nel Network Engine is single-threaded. We plan to
+rewrite the engine using multi-threading. The library will be made up of
+five layers:
+- Layer 0: socket wrapper (roughly, present CBaseSocket + listening
+socket functionalities)
+- Layer 1: multiple socket multi-threaded I/O mechanism
+- Layer 2: adapted to CMemStream (allows serialization)
+- Layer 3: adapted to CMessage (contains type information)
+- Layer 4: using callbacks (as presently used in the services and
+provided by CMsgSocket)
+
+The main features of Layer 1 are as follows:
+
+External view:
+The user programmer will be able to send data (A), to check if some data
+has been received (B), and if so to get a data block from the receive
+queue.
+
+Implementation:
+(A) When the user requests to send data, his data block is put into a
+send queue. The actual sending is triggered off by a time flush trigger,
+a size flush trigger or an explicit flush trigger (at the user's
+demand). Let's say the queue control is executed in the main thread, in
+an update() method, called evenly.
+(B) Each connection is handled by a separate thread that sleeps while
+not receiving data so that no CPU time will be used if nothing is
+received on a particular socket. When incoming data is actually
+received, it is put into a global receive queue (synchronized with a
+mutex of course) and popped when the user requests to receive a block.
+
+This implementation still raises a few questions:
+(A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+(B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+
+I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+an idea about this issues.
+
+Thanks.
+Olivier Cado
+--
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#252">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#252">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#252">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#252">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d030b948
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html
@@ -0,0 +1,73 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000252.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000254.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:01:57 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000254.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#253">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#253">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#253">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#253">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+question it will be cool :))
+
+&gt;<i> (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+</I>&gt;<i> a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+</I>&gt;<i> the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+</I>&gt;<i> know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+</I>&gt;<i> optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+</I>&gt;<i> an idea about this issues.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+<A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A>
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+<A HREF="http://www.virtools.com/">http://www.virtools.com/</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Ludovic LIEVRE</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ludovic.lievre%40chaman.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">ludovic.lievre@chaman.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:14:50 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all,
+
+We also build a MM game.
+
+Our servers now run on NT and Linux and will soon be ported to Solaris.
+
+I've read that with LinuxThreads, after 100 threads the performances of the
+system downgrade.
+
+Another question about network engine: will your messages all be TCP or UDP
+? If UDP is used will you add a mechanism that make UDP reliable ?
+In the first stages of our game, TCP was used. We made some test and we saw
+a terrific ping (due to ACK mechanism) time even on our LAN (200ms). So we
+decide to use UDP instead...
+
+
+&gt;<i> -----Message d'origine-----
+</I>&gt;<i> De : <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]De la part de
+</I>&gt;<i> Nicolas Hognon
+</I>&gt;<i> Envoye : jeudi 22 fevrier 2001 17:02
+</I>&gt;<i> A : <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> Objet : Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+</I>&gt;<i> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+</I>&gt;<i> question it will be cool :))
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fcf22c77
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html
@@ -0,0 +1,95 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000250.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Link error</H1>
+    <B>Jason Dominiczak</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link error">jdominiczak@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:29:39 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000250.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+I get some more error messages:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decrypt
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Parse_Charstrings
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Done
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Init
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Close_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Start_Point
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Point1
+etc.......
+
+I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+Jay
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;LIBCMT&quot; conflicts with use of other
+</I>libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+&gt;<i> &gt; freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+</I>_psaux_module_class
+&gt;<i> &gt; Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+</I>&gt;<i> should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry about that,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Cedric.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2be37a93
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000254.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000272.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:53:43 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000254.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000272.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#256">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Although  this  site  <A HREF="http://www.linuxraid.org/">http://www.linuxraid.org/</A> isn't directly related
+to  NEL, it has a great number of tips and tricks on how to make Linux a little bit
+stable  and  how to expand Linux system resources (see the bottom of their page).
+
+Thursday, February 22, 2001, 5:01:57 PM, you wrote:
+
+
+NH&gt; i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+NH&gt; how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+NH&gt; i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+NH&gt; question it will be cool :))
+
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..be693e65
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html
@@ -0,0 +1,75 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000258.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Link error</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link error">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:46:24 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+&gt;<i> I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+</I>&gt;<i> I get some more error messages:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+</I>
+This is caused because some FreeType modules that we are using are not
+inlcuded in your FreeType compilation.
+
+We, Nevrax, are using GNU make to compil Freetype, and that compilation
+method include everything by default.
+
+As you are using an IDE to compil it you have to put the base components
+and, eventualy, some optional components.
+
+In your specific case the psaux module need the t1types and psnames modules.
+
+As NeL is a &quot;work in progress&quot; and that we migth add new features to
+font_generator, my advice is to compile *all* the optionals modules,
+all the C files listed at the end of the INSTALL file, in your FreeType
+compilation and installation process ... :-)
+
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d7c2e8d7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html
@@ -0,0 +1,49 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Link error</H1>
+    <B>Jason Dominiczak</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link error">jdominiczak@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:15:56 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000257.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000259.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+
+-Jay
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..356d69b5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html
@@ -0,0 +1,49 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Link error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000258.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000247.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Link error</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Link error">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:37:42 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Nel] Link error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+&gt;<i> Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+</I>
+That's nothing :-)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f34d4377
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html
@@ -0,0 +1,114 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Memory error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000263.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000261.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Memory error</H1>
+    <B>Jason Dominiczak</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Memory error">jdominiczak@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:19:15 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#260">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it and got this error one I entered =
+the world
+&quot;The instruction at &quot;0x77fca615&quot;referenced memory at &quot;0x7c80fff7&quot;. The =
+memory could not be &quot;read&quot;
+
+I'm running windows 2000 and I get that message in both fullscreen and =
+in windowed modes.
+
+Not sure if this is a bug or what.
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2920.0&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it =
+and got=20
+this error one&amp;nbsp;I entered the world&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&quot;The instruction at =
+&quot;0x77fca615&quot;referenced memory=20
+at &quot;0x7c80fff7&quot;. The memory could not be &quot;read&quot;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I'm running windows 2000 and I get that =
+message in=20
+both fullscreen and in windowed modes.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Not sure if this is a bug or =
+what.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;-Jay&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#260">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ec907ee0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html
@@ -0,0 +1,80 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Memory error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000260.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000262.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Memory error</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Memory error">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:44:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#261">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#261">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#261">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#261">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> &quot;The instruction at &quot;0x77fca615&quot;referenced memory at &quot;0x7c80fff7&quot;. The 
+</I>&gt;<i> memory could not be &quot;read&quot;
+</I>
+i'm not sure the guys from nevrax can do someting with this kind
+of informations :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#261">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9b1edca2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html
@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Memory error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000261.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000264.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Memory error</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Memory error">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:03:33 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000264.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#262">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#262">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#262">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#262">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>In my experience with the engine these errors occur when a content file
+(mostly shape files) is missing.
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#262">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..863c4810
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html
@@ -0,0 +1,102 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000308.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000260.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:12:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#263">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#263">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#263">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#263">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> (A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+</I>&gt;<i> the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+</I>&gt;<i> come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+</I>
+i'm not sure that i understand this part of your mail and i hope you'll
+understand my answer because i'm not sure my english enough fluent :))
+
+you're asking want happened if you call send or write on a socket
+and there is not enough space in the tcp stack / transport layer buffer.
+it depends you've got blocking or non blocking socket.
+if it's a blocking socket you're thread will be blocked
+until you're data can be send by the tcp stack.
+if you're socket is in non blocking mode send/write
+will return you an error an errno will be EWOULDBLOCK
+or WSAEWOULDBLOCK under winsock.
+
+but i'm not sure it's the answer to your question
+because it is not a very huge problem.
+i make the same mistake because when you make
+some little test it's more common that receive failed
+with a wouldblock than send. when i began
+writting our network api (for the company i work)
+i made this mistake. but when i made
+some test with huge network messages and a poor modem
+i encounter tihs problem.
+
+i hope this help you
+but can you answer me that i know if i understand
+your problem :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#263">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..319c5329
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html
@@ -0,0 +1,109 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Memory error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000262.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000269.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Memory error</H1>
+    <B>Jason Dominiczak</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jdominiczak%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Memory error">jdominiczak@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:25:06 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#264">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#264">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#264">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#264">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only =
+happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot =
+and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try =
+to look around, it gives me that error.
+
+I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2920.0&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I've been trying to figure out were =
+this is coming=20
+from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can =
+stay in=20
+one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the =
+second i=20
+try to look around, it gives me that error.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I hope this sheds some more light on =
+the reason for=20
+this,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;-Jay&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#264">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..aadb8ea8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html
@@ -0,0 +1,78 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] 2 questions</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:bebarker%40meginc.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000269.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000267.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] 2 questions</H1>
+    <B>Brandon Barker</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bebarker%40meginc.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] 2 questions">bebarker@meginc.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:20:42 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#265">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#265">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#265">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#265">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello I have 2 questions.
+
+1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+Mesa.  What should I do.
+
+2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+anyone can get it ... for free.  
+
+Thanks,
+Brandon Barker
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#265">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#265">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#265">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#265">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4692ffe1
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html
@@ -0,0 +1,133 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000277.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000270.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:29:01 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000270.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#266">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#266">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#266">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#266">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Guys,
+    Well, i finally managed to get the sample snowballs client and
+    server up and running, though it required quite a few code hacks
+    on my part. (Damn my wacky machine config). Oh yeah, this is all
+    for the linux code as well.. my machine is basically debian woody
+    (though various gnome/wine/sawfish things are latest releases
+    compiled from source)
+
+    Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+    than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+    with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+    be causing them, please do. 
+    In case anyone else has similar problems, things I got were:
+        time_service was exiting: temporarily fixed by removing the
+          call of _Callback() in checkConfigFiles() method of 
+          code/nel/src/misc/config_file/config_file.cpp. I haven't
+          managed to work out where it's being set, or why the value
+          isn't correct yet.
+          I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+          client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+          of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+          doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+        moves_service - suspect it had the same problem as above, it
+          _was_ segfaulting, but went away after the above hack.
+        the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+          being unable to load file &quot;data/&quot;. Managed to eventually track
+          it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+          code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+          texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == &quot;&quot; though
+          the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+          out yet why it's decided that the textName is &quot;&quot; (it's too
+          late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == &quot;&quot;
+          and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+
+    As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+    some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+    the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+    background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+    since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+    shoving an '&amp;' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+    (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+    etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+    Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+
+    Oh well, after all that, the client runs at about 5fps ;) Guess
+    I should spend some time seeing if I can get it faster eh?
+    Can anyone give me some benchmarkish figures for framerate 
+    under window~1? For a P3-550 with Geforce(1) would be best ;)
+    Then I can have a base to work from.
+
+    Anyhow, nice work guys. The framework (which I've forcibly had
+    to poke) seems pretty decent (I'm reserving judgement for further
+    praise until I've had more experience with it ;)). Having spent
+    some time working on one of these, I know just how much work it
+    is to get anything this complex working. 
+
+    
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <H1>[Nel] 2 questions</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] 2 questions">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:53:18 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000265.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000268.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Brandon,
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+</I>&gt;<i> with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+</I>&gt;<i> Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+</I>&gt;<i> Mesa.  What should I do.
+</I>
+That migth come from the file &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;, could you check that you have
+this file ?
+
+If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+
+   <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+
+
+&gt;<i> 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+</I>&gt;<i> compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+</I>&gt;<i> anyone can get it ... for free.  
+</I>
+We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html
new file mode 100644
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] 2 questions and something else</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] 2 questions and something else">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:12:28 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 03:53:18PM +0100, Valignat Cedric wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hello Brandon,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Brandon Barker wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Mesa.  What should I do.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> That migth come from the file &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;, could you check that you have
+</I>&gt;<i> this file ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>    <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+</I>
+ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; anyone can get it ... for free.  
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+</I>&gt;<i> during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+</I>&gt;<i> us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+</I>
+*shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+Cygwin can be..... painful.
+
+On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+_almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+(Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+out patches?)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..03791eb4
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html
@@ -0,0 +1,80 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Memory error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000264.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000265.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Memory error</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Memory error">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:15:05 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000264.html">[Nel] Memory error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000265.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#269">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Jason,
+
+Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+&gt;<i> I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try to look around, it gives me that error.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+</I>
+I'm sorry but no so much :-(
+
+Could you give us more informations about your config and eventually try
+to compil it on a debug mode and send us the output lines that you will
+get on the console ...
+
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..94d69317
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:destine%40scholar.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000266.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000275.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Bret Guillet</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:destine%40scholar.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">destine@scholar.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:42:42 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000275.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+Hash: SHA1
+
+I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+and
+get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+others who have similar capabilities.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use &lt;<A HREF="http://www.pgp.com">http://www.pgp.com</A>&gt;
+
+iQA/AwUBOpp5ciQJr2c1l90oEQJtTwCfZPelcwnmgEGChRw9Lt+pl1gMQD4AoNDj
+lbd6OC/J1zIG26gezJHZzawa
+=HSCR
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..09b641f3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html
@@ -0,0 +1,80 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some screen shots</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000285.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000273.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some screen shots</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some screen shots">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:32:42 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000285.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000273.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#271">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+
+  
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e31e97bf
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html
@@ -0,0 +1,84 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nevrax%40bernard-hugueney.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000256.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000278.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Bernard Hugueney</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:49:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000256.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000278.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#272">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>* Nicolas Hognon &lt;<A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>&gt; [010222 19:33]:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+</I>&gt;<i> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+On a pessimistic note, I remember seeing in kernel traffic that Solaris
+was more effective in handling huge number of threads :-(
+Not only that, but Linus T. seemed not to recognize a defect is Linux,
+but claimed that it was a matter of trade-off and that Solaris was
+optimized for huge number of threads, and Linux more effective with
+small number of threads.
+
+But my memory is weak so I may be wrong...
+
+On a completly unrelated note, I remember seeing a NeL coder seeking assistance
+on a gcc mailing list for a trouble with exception causing an abort when
+linking with C code (I think). I do not remember if there was a useful response
+, but I saw a related message on boost mailing list:
+&lt;citation&gt;
+Hi,
+I finally figured out why the regex++ shared library was crashing when
+throwing an exception.  Somehow the shared library wasn't getting
+created correctly by using ld to link it.  When using ld with c++ code,
+some additional libraries need to be specified on the command line.  The
+easy fix is to simply call g++ to link the files.  g++ then calls ld
+with the appropriate commands.
+&lt;/citation&gt;
+
+Maybe this can help...
+
+Cheers,
+Bernard
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0d7d1690
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html
@@ -0,0 +1,103 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some screen shots</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000271.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000276.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some screen shots</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some screen shots">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:54:29 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000271.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000276.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Yes, screenshot already took. we just wait a validation from the co-fonder
+to put them on the site.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Dim Segebart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.com">zager@teleaction.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:32 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Some screen shots
+
+
+&gt;<i> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org
+</I>will be a
+&gt;<i> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Dim Segebart                        mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] 2 questions and something else</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] 2 questions and something else">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:18:47 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000268.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#274">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Leighton Haynes:
+&gt;<i> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+</I>&gt;<i> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+</I>&gt;<i> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+</I>&gt;<i> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+</I>&gt;<i> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+</I>
+If you know how autoconfig works, it's usually almost trivial.
+
+&gt;<i> (Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+</I>&gt;<i> out patches?)
+</I>
+Basically, for smallish patches (two-three liners), you may submit them
+here if you want.
+
+However, since not everyone is interested in seeing patches, at least
+until they are commited on the CVS, you may also submit them directly
+to <A HREF="mailto:code@nevrax.org">code@nevrax.org</A>, which, I think, is mentioned somewhere on the web
+site. That applies to larger patches as well; I don't think people
+appreciate seeing a 1000-line diff file landing in the mailing list :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9935d1a8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html
@@ -0,0 +1,78 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000270.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000283.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:22:56 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000270.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000283.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#275">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Bret Guillet:
+&gt;<i> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+</I>&gt;<i> and
+</I>&gt;<i> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+</I>&gt;<i> others who have similar capabilities.
+</I>
+It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+    <P><UL>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ccc552e0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some screen shots</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000273.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000280.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some screen shots</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some screen shots">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:24:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000273.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000280.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#276">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Dim Segebart:
+&gt;<i> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+</I>&gt;<i> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+</I>
+We had a little internal vote about which of the many screenshots
+we took would look the best. Final validation pending now, but since
+we don't have any unspeakable acts perpetrated by the gnus on the
+hapless penguins, I don't think it will take long.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a3f50185
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html
@@ -0,0 +1,104 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] 2 questions and something else</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000274.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000266.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] 2 questions and something else</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] 2 questions and something else">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:02:44 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000274.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#277">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#277">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+</I>&gt;<i> than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+</I>&gt;<i> will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+</I>&gt;<i> should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+</I>
+Fixed, sorry about that ...
+
+It will be on the public CVS tonigth.
+
+
+&gt;<i> *shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+</I>&gt;<i> Cygwin can be..... painful.
+</I>
+I never tried yet, migth be interesting :-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+</I>&gt;<i> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+</I>&gt;<i> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+</I>&gt;<i> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+</I>&gt;<i> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+</I>
+You can check the GNU website's documentation :
+
+   <A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/manual/autoconf-2.13/autoconf.html">http://www.gnu.org/manual/autoconf-2.13/autoconf.html</A>
+   <A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/manual/automake-1.4/automake.html">http://www.gnu.org/manual/automake-1.4/automake.html</A>
+
+And there is an online book, on RedHat's website, about Automake, Autoconf,
+and Libtool which is a quite good introduction to all this &quot;stuff&quot; :
+
+   <A HREF="http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html">http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html</A>
+
+Contact me if i can help ...
+
+Have fun ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..551c2232
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html
@@ -0,0 +1,73 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000272.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000279.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:50:35 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000272.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#278">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+</I>&gt;<i> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+</I>&gt;<i> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+</I>&gt;<i> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+</I>
+Threads are indeed system tasks internaly, and they are scheduled as such.
+The number of tasks and/or threads is only limited by NR_TASKS at compile
+time in Linux. And yes, the scheduler is not really effective at managing
+more than 1000~2000 tasks, and doesn't provide enough semantics to
+optimize thread use. This is rather a matter of design, and you could
+without great trouble design a Linux scheduler that handles a bunch of
+threads the way you expect it, but as far as I known, only the real time
+versions of Linux (such as RTlinux) have played with this part of the
+Linux code. Now about SMP, Linux does spreads threads over the available
+CPUs to optimize parallelism, but there's no limitation. And you'll only
+get a speed up on SMP machines if you really have parallel threads (ie.
+not a thread join every 10 lines !).
+
+I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing', sounds
+cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads everywhere : BeOS
+is a good example since everything than can receive events is in a thread.
+You can do it all by yourself : use one process and dispatch the incoming
+events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you would use one more than the other
+is a matter of design, and also depends on the type of application and the
+OS you use. The anwser is really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail,
+but I must admit I don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3a7d9e44
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000278.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000290.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:11 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000278.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000290.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#279">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#279">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+Look at it by the URL <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html</A>
+Project home page is <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/</A>
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Ian Holsman</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax%40holsman.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">nevrax@holsman.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:15 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000276.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On 26 Feb 2001, you wrote in games.nevrax:
+
+ &gt;Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+ &gt;
+ &gt;I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing',
+ &gt;sounds cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads
+ &gt;everywhere : BeOS is a good example since everything than can receive
+ &gt;events is in a thread. You can do it all by yourself : use one process
+ &gt;and dispatch the incoming events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you
+ &gt;would use one more than the other is a matter of design, and also
+ &gt;depends on the type of application and the OS you use. The anwser is
+ &gt;really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail, but I must admit I
+ &gt;don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+for discussions on different threading models you really should be 
+looking at, and drill down to the documents/technical papers.
+you probably don't want to maintain a thread per connected user, but
+have some kind of 'state' information which can be refered to by the 
+incoming request.
+
+
+<A HREF="http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html">http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html</A>
+
+..Ian
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:59:11 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000288.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#281">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+</I>&gt;<i> and
+</I>&gt;<i> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+</I>&gt;<i> others who have similar capabilities.
+</I>I'm running an athlon 700 with a geforce2 gts and get 15-30 fps (depending
+on scene complexity) with cvs from a couple days ago (and some modifications
+we're making which should only make it slower)  The speed hardly even goes
+down when I crank the resolution up to 1280x1024 which indicates to me that
+we are currently cpu limited.  You might also try commenting nlinfo() lines
+out if u really want a few more fps, but just judging by the speed
+improvements since snowballs .1 I'm not worried about future performance:)
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html
new file mode 100644
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000280.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:11:48 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000280.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000286.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>here is an article about massive multiplayer game on gamasutra
+i don't read it yeat.
+
+<A HREF="http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010226/fitch_01.htm">http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010226/fitch_01.htm</A>
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html
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@@ -0,0 +1,89 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000275.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000284.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:18:00 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000275.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 06:22:56PM +0100, Vincent Archer wrote:
+&gt;<i> According to Bret Guillet:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; and
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; others who have similar capabilities.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+</I>&gt;<i> of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+</I>&gt;<i> anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+</I>How does one change these settings?
+
+Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+implemented yet.
+
+One thing that would be nice for those of us not in Nevrax would
+be a roadmap showing featureset planned and whos working on them 
+(and when). This would allow people out here to grab a feature they
+felt like implementing, and have a go at it, without running into 
+situations where someone else has already done it.
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:08:24 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000283.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I already sent a mail in this list about how to increase the fps in
+snowball.
+(vincent archer, you should put this in the FAQ ;-)
+
+---------------------
+
+Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000281.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000271.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:00:05 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000281.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000271.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Leighton Haynes:
+&gt;<i>     Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+</I>&gt;<i>     than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+</I>&gt;<i>     with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+</I>&gt;<i>     be causing them, please do. 
+</I>
+Well, we don't have hints, because, as you may surmise, these do not
+occur here.
+
+&gt;<i>           I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+</I>&gt;<i>           client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+</I>&gt;<i>           of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+</I>&gt;<i>           doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+</I>
+That's exactly what it's supposed to be, yes. So, either the callbacks
+are set incorrectly, or they are called while they should not be.
+
+&gt;<i>         the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+</I>&gt;<i>           being unable to load file &quot;data/&quot;. Managed to eventually track
+</I>&gt;<i>           it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+</I>&gt;<i>           code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+</I>&gt;<i>           texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == &quot;&quot; though
+</I>&gt;<i>           the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+</I>&gt;<i>           out yet why it's decided that the textName is &quot;&quot; (it's too
+</I>&gt;<i>           late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == &quot;&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i>           and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+</I>
+That's the strange part. It should not be loading an empty file name
+at all. I suppose the check doesn't hurt either, so we'll look at
+integrating it in future commits.
+
+&gt;<i>     As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+</I>&gt;<i>     some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+</I>&gt;<i>     the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+</I>&gt;<i>     background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+</I>
+Well, there is one. Basically, if you look at these processes, you'll
+see they first do a set of initialisations, then fork. The whole
+fork-and-exit sequence is used to guarantee that service N+1 isn't
+started before service N has at least performed the minimum required
+initialisations.
+
+&gt;<i>     since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+</I>&gt;<i>     shoving an '&amp;' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+</I>
+You could too, but you'd have to slide in a &quot;reasonable&quot; sleep N in
+the shell startup script. With reasonable varying a lot.
+
+&gt;<i>     (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+</I>&gt;<i>     etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+</I>&gt;<i>     Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+</I>
+That'll be added, yes.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+    <P><UL>
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d09538e7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:bebarker%40meginc.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000282.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</H1>
+    <B>Brandon Barker</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bebarker%40meginc.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs">bebarker@meginc.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:44:30 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000302.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#286">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> &gt; 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; ATI Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; suggest I get Mesa.  What should I do.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> That migth come from the file &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;, could you check that you have
+</I>&gt;<i> this file ?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>    <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+</I>
+
+Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
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+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3c5af0ee
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Thierry Mallard</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:31:06 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000292.html">[Nel] State Threads library</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000289.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#287">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+&gt;<i> [ Linux and threads ]
+</I>&gt;<i> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+</I>&gt;<i> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+</I>&gt;<i> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+</I>&gt;<i> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+</I>
+In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+/proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+
+But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default kernel
+can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+look deeper into this...
+
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |     
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..457beb3e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html
@@ -0,0 +1,83 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000284.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000281.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</H1>
+    <B>Lionel Berenguier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.">berenguier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:34:41 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000284.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000281.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#288">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: Leighton Haynes &lt;<A HREF="mailto:dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 3:18 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+</I>&gt;<i> implemented yet.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+We use a ROAM-like algorithm. See class CLandscape for more details. It is
+based on bezier patchs, not on heightmap, so it is slighty different from
+ROAM (as example, you can't deduce tesselation neighborhood from topology (a
+patch graph is not as simple as a heightmap :) )). There is lot of features
+(from Tiles, to distance based geomoprh) which make it different from the
+original ROAM document.
+
+Actually, I tink the only thing copied from ROAM is the triangle split/merge
+scheme.
+
+
+Lionel.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..cdd60872
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html
@@ -0,0 +1,106 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000287.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000291.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:07:19 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000287.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000291.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#289">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+In fact, we don't want to know the theorical limit. we know that we can
+change this value in the kernel sources and recompile it.
+
+What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+case, we have to forget the solution where each
+socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Thierry Mallard&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:thierry@mallard.com">thierry@mallard.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:31 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+&gt;<i> On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; [ Linux and threads ]
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+</I>&gt;<i> /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default
+</I>kernel
+&gt;<i> can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+</I>&gt;<i> look deeper into this...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Shaman
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Thierry Mallard              |
+</I>&gt;<i> GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+</I>&gt;<i> key 0xA3D021CB               |
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A>   |
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a17656c5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html
@@ -0,0 +1,85 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000279.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000292.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:48:50 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000292.html">[Nel] State Threads library</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#290">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+Yes, we didn't send a message to say what do we think about this library
+(sate thread).
+We currently look in deep the documentation and it seems a very interesting.
+We just have to be sure that this lib fulfils our requirements.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Dim Segebart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.com">zager@teleaction.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:17 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+&gt;<i> I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+</I>&gt;<i> this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+</I>&gt;<i> At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+</I>&gt;<i> tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+</I>&gt;<i> Look at it by the URL
+</I><A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html</A>
+&gt;<i> Project home page is <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0a6ba1f5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html
@@ -0,0 +1,116 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000289.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000294.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:57:11 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000289.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000294.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+&gt;<i> In this case, we have to forget the solution where each
+</I>&gt;<i> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+</I>&gt;<i> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+</I>&gt;<i> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+</I>&gt;<i> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+</I>&gt;<i> and check who have wakeup the select().
+</I>
+I encouter the same problem : one thread must manage more than one 
+socket on the server. the problem is how managing those socket
+in the thread. the problem is I want to be portable between windows
+and linux :((
+
+under windows there is many solution :
+  - select (the only one which is portable)
+  - windows event and message
+  - overlapped I/O
+
+under linux the only solution I know is :
+  - select / poll :  i'm not sure but i think the difference between
+    select and poll is that with poll you don't have to fill your array
+    before each call.
+
+another problem when a thread maange more than one socket is
+what your threads will do :
+
+a first approch is something like that :
+
+while(run)
+{
+   TestSokets();
+
+   for each socket which received something
+   do
+     read the incoming data
+     process the data
+     send data
+   done
+}
+
+but during one step of this loop your socket list must be locked
+so if a new socket need to enter this thread the calling thread will be
+blocked.
+
+a solution is to have more than one thread type.
+thread which test and read socket (perhaps wire in socket to)
+thread which to process a network message queue.
+(and perhaps thread which send network message)
+
+but it increase the number of thread so the maximum
+number of client is lesser.
+
+but i'm not really used to programming with thread yet so perhaps
+my problem are not really problems.
+
+i hope this can help and you can understand me :))
+and i think i'll take a look at <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/</A>
+to ...
+
+good luck
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+<A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A>
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+<A HREF="http://www.virtools.com/">http://www.virtools.com/</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..96029b1f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html
@@ -0,0 +1,65 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] State Threads library</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000290.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000287.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] State Threads library</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] State Threads library">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:33:10 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000290.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>There is a very very big problem in the State Threads library
+
+The State Threads library is a derivative of the Netscape Portable Runtime
+library (NSPR) and therefore is distributed under the Netscape Public
+License (NPL).
+
+And the NPL is not compatible with GPL licence so we could not use it in
+your GPL project!!!
+
+Another less important problem is that it doesn't work on windows and our
+server must be able to run on windows (for debugging purpose for example)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..de2c505e
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000302.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000302.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+Hi Guys,
+    Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+    to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+    extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+    and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+
+    To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+    and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=&lt;position of the 
+    Xxf86vm lib&gt; - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+    it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+
+    Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=&quot;diff.configure.in&quot;
+
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -r1.23 configure.in
+232a233,251
+&gt;<i> dnl ============================================
+</I>&gt;<i> dnl Check for XF86VidMode extension (-lXxf86vm)
+</I>&gt;<i> dnl ============================================
+</I>&gt;<i> AC_MSG_CHECKING(&quot;for XF86VidMode extension&quot;)
+</I>&gt;<i> AC_ARG_WITH( xf86vidmode,
+</I>&gt;<i>     [ --with-xf86vidmode=&lt;path&gt;     path to the XF86VidMode lib.
+</I>&gt;<i>                           e.g. /usr/X11R6/lib],
+</I>&gt;<i>     [VMLIB_DIR=$with_xf86vidmode
+</I>&gt;<i>       AC_MSG_RESULT(using VidMode library located in $with_xf86vidmode.)],
+</I>&gt;<i>     AC_MSG_RESULT(Compiling without Xf86VidMode and hence fullscreen support to compile with XF86VidMode support, use --with-xf86vidmode=&lt;pathtolib&gt;)
+</I>&gt;<i> )
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> if test X&quot;$VMLIB_DIR&quot; != X;
+</I>&gt;<i> then
+</I>&gt;<i>     LIBS=&quot;-L$VMLIB_DIR -lXxf86vm $LIBS&quot;;
+</I>&gt;<i>     CXXFLAGS=&quot;$CXXFLAGS -DXF86VIDMODE&quot;;
+</I>&gt;<i> fi
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=&quot;diff.driver_opengl.cpp&quot;
+
+Index: driver_opengl.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.75
+diff -r1.75 driver_opengl.cpp
+140d139
+&lt; 	_FullScreen= false;
+144c143,149
+&lt; #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+&gt;<i> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX) // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+</I>&gt;<i> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+</I>&gt;<i>     memset(&amp;_OldScreenMode,0,sizeof(_OldScreenMode));// zero the old screen mode
+</I>&gt;<i> #endif //XF86VIDMODE
+</I>&gt;<i> #endif
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 	_FullScreen= false;
+</I>225a231
+&gt;<i>         {
+</I>226a233
+&gt;<i>         }
+</I>351c358
+&lt; 	  {
+---
+&gt;<i>     {
+</I>353c360
+&lt; 	  }
+---
+&gt;<i>     }
+</I>355c362
+&lt; 	  {
+---
+&gt;<i>     {
+</I>357c364
+&lt; 	  }
+---
+&gt;<i>     }
+</I>364c371,385
+&lt; 	attr.override_redirect = False;
+---
+&gt;<i> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+</I>&gt;<i>     // If we're going to attempt fullscreen, we need to set redirect to True,
+</I>&gt;<i>     // This basically places the window with no borders in the top left 
+</I>&gt;<i>     // corner of the screen.
+</I>&gt;<i>     if (mode.Windowed)
+</I>&gt;<i>     {
+</I>&gt;<i>         attr.override_redirect = False;
+</I>&gt;<i>     }
+</I>&gt;<i>     else
+</I>&gt;<i>     {
+</I>&gt;<i> 	    attr.override_redirect = True;
+</I>&gt;<i>     }
+</I>&gt;<i> #else
+</I>&gt;<i>     attr.override_redirect = False;
+</I>&gt;<i> #endif
+</I>409,411c430,507
+&lt; //	XEvent event;
+&lt; //	XIfEvent(dpy, &amp;event, WaitForNotify, (char *)this);
+&lt; 
+---
+&gt;<i> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+</I>&gt;<i>     if (!mode.Windowed)
+</I>&gt;<i>     {
+</I>&gt;<i>     
+</I>&gt;<i>         // Set window to the right size, map it to the display, and raise it
+</I>&gt;<i>         // to the front
+</I>&gt;<i>         XResizeWindow(dpy,win,mode.Width,mode.Height);
+</I>&gt;<i>         XMapRaised(dpy,win);
+</I>&gt;<i>         XRaiseWindow(dpy, win);
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>         // grab the mouse and keyboard on the fullscreen window 
+</I>&gt;<i>         if ((XGrabPointer(dpy, win, True, 0,
+</I>&gt;<i>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync,
+</I>&gt;<i>                           win, None, CurrentTime) != GrabSuccess) ||
+</I>&gt;<i>             (XGrabKeyboard(dpy, win, True,
+</I>&gt;<i>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync, CurrentTime) != 0) )
+</I>&gt;<i>         {
+</I>&gt;<i>             // Until I work out how to deal with this nicely, it just gives
+</I>&gt;<i>             // an error and exits the prorgam.
+</I>&gt;<i>             nlerror(&quot;Unable to grab keyboard and mouse\n&quot;);
+</I>&gt;<i>         }
+</I>&gt;<i>         else
+</I>&gt;<i>         {
+</I>&gt;<i>             // Save the old screen mode and dotclock
+</I>&gt;<i>             memset(&amp;_OldScreenMode, 0, sizeof(_OldScreenMode));
+</I>&gt;<i>             XF86VidModeGetModeLine(dpy, 
+</I>&gt;<i>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+</I>&gt;<i>                                    &amp;_OldDotClock,
+</I>&gt;<i>                                    &amp;_OldScreenMode);
+</I>&gt;<i>             // Save the old viewport
+</I>&gt;<i>             XF86VidModeGetViewPort(dpy, 
+</I>&gt;<i>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+</I>&gt;<i>                                    &amp;_OldX,
+</I>&gt;<i>                                    &amp;_OldY);
+</I>&gt;<i>     
+</I>&gt;<i>             // get a list of modes, search for an appropriate one.
+</I>&gt;<i>             XF86VidModeModeInfo **modes;
+</I>&gt;<i>             int nmodes;
+</I>&gt;<i>             if (XF86VidModeGetAllModeLines(dpy,
+</I>&gt;<i>                                            DefaultScreen(dpy),
+</I>&gt;<i>                                            &amp;nmodes,&amp;modes))
+</I>&gt;<i>             {
+</I>&gt;<i>                 int mode_index = -1; // Gah, magic numbers all bad. 
+</I>&gt;<i>                 for (int i = 0; i &lt; nmodes; i++)
+</I>&gt;<i>                 {
+</I>&gt;<i>                     nldebug(&quot;Available mode - %dx%d\n&quot;,mode.Width,mode.Height);
+</I>&gt;<i>                     if( (modes[i]-&gt;hdisplay == mode.Width) &amp;&amp;
+</I>&gt;<i>                         (modes[i]-&gt;vdisplay == mode.Height))
+</I>&gt;<i>                     {
+</I>&gt;<i>                         mode_index = i;
+</I>&gt;<i>                     }
+</I>&gt;<i>                 }
+</I>&gt;<i>                 // Switch to the mode
+</I>&gt;<i>                 if (mode_index != -1)
+</I>&gt;<i>                 {
+</I>&gt;<i>                     if(XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,
+</I>&gt;<i>                                                DefaultScreen(dpy), 
+</I>&gt;<i>                                                modes[mode_index]))
+</I>&gt;<i>                     {
+</I>&gt;<i>                         nlinfo(&quot;Switching to mode %dx%d,\n&quot;,mode.Width, 
+</I>&gt;<i>                                                             mode.Height);
+</I>&gt;<i>                         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),0, 0);
+</I>&gt;<i>                         _FullScreen = true;
+</I>&gt;<i>                     }
+</I>&gt;<i>                 }
+</I>&gt;<i>                 else
+</I>&gt;<i>                 {
+</I>&gt;<i>                     // This is a problem, since we've nuked the border from 
+</I>&gt;<i>                     // window in the setup stage, until I work out how
+</I>&gt;<i>                     // to get it back (recreate window? seems excessive)
+</I>&gt;<i>                     nlerror(&quot;Couldn't find an appropriate mode %dx%d\n&quot;,
+</I>&gt;<i>                                                                 mode.Width,
+</I>&gt;<i>                                                                 mode.Height);
+</I>&gt;<i>                 }
+</I>&gt;<i>             }
+</I>&gt;<i>         }
+</I>&gt;<i>     }
+</I>&gt;<i> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+</I>659c755,776
+&lt; #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+&gt;<i> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX)// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+</I>&gt;<i>     if(_FullScreen)
+</I>&gt;<i>     {
+</I>&gt;<i>         XF86VidModeModeInfo info;
+</I>&gt;<i>         nlinfo(&quot;Switching back to original mode \n&quot;);
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>         // This is a bit ugly - a quick hack to copy the ModeLine structure 
+</I>&gt;<i>         // into the modeInfo structure.
+</I>&gt;<i>         memcpy((XF86VidModeModeLine *)((char *)&amp;info + sizeof(info.dotclock)), &amp;_OldScreenMode, sizeof(XF86VidModeModeLine));
+</I>&gt;<i>         info.dotclock = _OldDotClock;
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>         nlinfo(&quot;Mode is %dx%d,\n&quot;,info.hdisplay,info.vdisplay);
+</I>&gt;<i>         XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),&amp;info);
+</I>&gt;<i>         nlinfo(&quot;Switching viewporr to %d,%d,\n&quot;,_OldX, _OldY);
+</I>&gt;<i>         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),_OldX,_OldY);
+</I>&gt;<i>         // Ungrab the keyboard (probably not necessary);
+</I>&gt;<i>         XUngrabKeyboard(dpy, CurrentTime);
+</I>&gt;<i>     }
+</I>&gt;<i> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+</I>&gt;<i> #endif // NL_OS_UNIX
+</I>
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=&quot;diff.driver_opengl.h&quot;
+
+Index: driver_opengl.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.50
+diff -r1.50 driver_opengl.h
+40a41
+&gt;<i> #include &lt;X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h&gt;
+</I>219a221
+&gt;<i> 	bool						_FullScreen;
+</I>230d231
+&lt; 	bool						_FullScreen;
+238a240,244
+&gt;<i> //#ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+</I>&gt;<i>     int                         _OldDotClock;   // old dotclock
+</I>&gt;<i>     XF86VidModeModeLine         _OldScreenMode; // old modeline
+</I>&gt;<i>     int                         _OldX, _OldY;   //Viewport settings
+</I>&gt;<i> //#endif //XF86VIDMODE
+</I>240d245
+&lt; 
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd--
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:30:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000291.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000295.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#294">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+</I>&gt;<i> much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+</I>&gt;<i> said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+</I>&gt;<i> case, we have to forget the solution where each
+</I>&gt;<i> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+</I>&gt;<i> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+</I>&gt;<i> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+</I>&gt;<i> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+</I>&gt;<i> and check who have wakeup the select().
+</I>
+Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:10:53 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000294.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+</I>&gt;<i> set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+</I>&gt;<i> Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+</I>&gt;<i> same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+</I>&gt;<i> Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+</I>
+ok this is a solution
+but as i said in my last mail the problem
+is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+
+under windows i know other solution than select / poll but under
+unixes i don't know other solutions.
+
+some one knows other one ?
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+<A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A>
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+<A HREF="http://www.virtools.com/">http://www.virtools.com/</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..835ff2f7
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+   <H1>[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</H1>
+    <B>Yan Babilliot</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:yan%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches">yan@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+
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+
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+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html
new file mode 100644
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+ <HEAD>
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:28:35 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000295.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+</I>
+There's no 1000000 solutions :)
+In fact, if you want to be portable, there s only one solution (if think),
+it s select() that is available on all BSD socket system (all unix, linux
+and windows)
+The other solution is poll() that it should have better performance but is
+conform to XPG4-UNIX (not available on windows)
+And other solutions are OS specific (on unix, i don t know other solutions).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html
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index 00000000..e5d91059
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:30:55 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000297.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b4e53fc4
--- /dev/null
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+   <H1>[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</H1>
+    <B>Yan Babilliot</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:yan%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches">yan@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>28 Feb 2001 15:38:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000296.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>oops sorry ;)   
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+:<i>(
+</I>
+&gt;<i> On 28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100, Yan Babilliot wrote:
+</I>
+&gt;<i> putain quand je vois ca ca mfout les nerfs d'informaticien. Zauraaient
+</I>&gt;<i> du vous acheter des pots de yaourt avec des ficelles s'aurait ete moins
+</I>&gt;<i> cher ... 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> On 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Hi Guys,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=&lt;position of the 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     Xxf86vm lib&gt; - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;     Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Leighton...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; --
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:05:17 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000299.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000303.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Yan Babilliot:
+&gt;<i> oops sorry ;)   
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+</I>&gt;<i> :(
+</I>
+Too much network destroys the network.
+
+I'm rather fond of smoke signals myself. A lot better than can'n string
+for long range transmission, but the bandwidth sucks :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:11:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000298.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>i'm aggry with you
+at this time i'll use select for windows and linux (or poll for linux)
+and design my server so that i can implement another better solution.
+
+has i said before better solution under windows are
+ - are windows message and event and i don't want use it
+ - overlapped I/O but i don't really understand how it works
+   so it's not easy to design a server which is able to use select and this
+   technic. perhaps you already know it but you can take a look at
+<A HREF="http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/articles/io-strategies.html">http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/articles/io-strategies.html</A>
+
+
+&gt;<i> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+</I>&gt;<i> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+</I>&gt;<i> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+</I>&gt;<i> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+</I>&gt;<i> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+</I>&gt;<i> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+</I>
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+<A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A>
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+<A HREF="http://www.virtools.com/">http://www.virtools.com/</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2c444ca8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000286.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000293.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:49:09 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000286.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Brandon Barker wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+</I>
+I change the OpenGL checking 2 days ago, and it's, now, checking the &lt;GL/gl.h&gt;
+file for the define GL_VERSION_1_2, as we are using OpenGL 1.2.
+
+Before that it was checking for the define GL_GLEXT_VERSION in the &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;
+file ... i now, that wasn't very clean :-(
+
+Otherwise, that could come from the fact that /usr/X11R6/include/ isn't in
+your default include directory list, ithat apear on some system and i plan
+to do this type of checking soon, in that case you should try to to execute
+the configure script as following :
+
+  $ CXXFLAGS=&quot;-pipe -I/usr/X11R6/include&quot; ./configure [..]
+
+
+I hope that will help,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:23:20 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000300.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+</I>&gt;<i>     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+</I>&gt;<i>     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+</I>&gt;<i>     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+Nice ! :-)))
+
+Give some time to apply and test your patches, and it will be &quot;integrated&quot; ;-)
+
+Thanks,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Zane</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">zane@supernova.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:04:59 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000301.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vincent Caron&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:v.caron@zerodeux.net">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A>&gt;
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+&gt;<i> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of
+</I>adopting
+&gt;<i> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of
+</I>service
+&gt;<i> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it
+</I>would
+&gt;<i> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get
+</I>the
+&gt;<i> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract
+</I>model
+&gt;<i> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+</I>
+
+Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+already implemented.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:52:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000304.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>you're right
+many people and project were confront to this problem
+and they resolve it.
+
+but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+
+i think for a web server
+the browser connect to the server when it need something
+but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+you're client is always connected to the server
+it's not exactly the same things.
+
+&gt;<i> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+</I>&gt;<i> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+</I>&gt;<i> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+</I>&gt;<i> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+</I>&gt;<i> already implemented.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>elijah wright</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">elw@stderr.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:51:45 -0500 (EST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000305.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000307.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+</I>&gt;<i> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+</I>&gt;<i> you're client is always connected to the server
+</I>&gt;<i> it's not exactly the same things.
+</I>
+as i recall, the jabber.org people have done some scalability work for
+just this kind of thing- their IM client is an always-on/always-available
+service.
+
+might be fun to ask some of them what their ideas on this are.
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Zane</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">zane@supernova.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:08:22 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000306.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Nicolas Hognon&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>&gt;
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+&gt;<i> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+</I>&gt;<i> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> i think for a web server
+</I>&gt;<i> the browser connect to the server when it need something
+</I>&gt;<i> but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+</I>&gt;<i> you're client is always connected to the server
+</I>&gt;<i> it's not exactly the same things.
+</I>
+If nothing else this simply means that it has spent a great deal of time
+optimizing opening and closing connections (and waiting on incoming
+connections).  Perhaps combining their opening/closing optimizations with
+the optimizations Jabber has made for always-on connections would give us
+the best of both worlds.  I'd be willing to bet that Jabber has already
+borrowed a lot of code from projects like Apache.
+
+Anyway, at this point I don't think I have anything else usefull to add to
+the discussion since I doubt I'll get around to doing the research myself so
+back into lurker mode. :)
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Bernard Hugueney</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:13:12 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000307.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>* Zane &lt;<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>&gt; [010228 19:17]:
+&gt;<i> ----- Original Message -----
+</I>&gt;<i> From: &quot;Vincent Caron&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:v.caron@zerodeux.net">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+</I>&gt;<i> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+</I>&gt;<i> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+</I>&gt;<i> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+</I>&gt;<i> already implemented.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> -E.J. Wilburn
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>Indeed, this is a MUCH debated suject. But I'm afraid Apache is not
+the fastest example to follow (they have special constraints such as modules
+interface) Zeus and TUX Threaded linUX webserver or BOA come to mind.
+<A HREF="http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html">http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html</A> seems interesting but a nit out of date ...
+Anyway, there was a discussion on lkml on how to overcome select()/poll()
+shortcomings with a new API. If it made it to kernel 2.4, you should be
+looking that way.
+
+Bernard
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net">
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+   
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</H1>
+    <B>robert@paradox.got.net</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)">robert@paradox.got.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:15 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000303.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#309">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#309">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+I too am hoping to get snowballs running on a Debian/GNU Linux
+machine.  I too have run into the error message mentioned in the
+title.  I'd love to see a patch for it.  So far I've traced it down to
+a call to setupTexture which is exiting the program.  My C++ skills
+are not strong enough to hunt this down any further.
+
+I have an Athalon 700, 512M ram, and GeForce 256.  
+Libc6 2.2.2, 
+gcc 2.95.3, 
+
+Other info available on request.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot;Love is like a snowmobile flying over the
+System Administrator   frozen tundra that suddenly flips, pinning you
+Got.net                underneath.  At night the ice weasles come. &quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;             -- Matt Groenig (Simpsons creator)
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-February Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Feb  7 15:02:57 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 149<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000182.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="182"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000161.html">[Nel] New release</A> <A NAME="161"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000165.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="165"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="164"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000168.html">[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</A> <A NAME="168"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000187.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="187"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000193.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="193"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000206.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="206"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="210"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000212.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="212"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000213.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="213"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000230.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="230"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000231.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="231"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000234.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="234"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000235.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="235"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="236"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000241.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="241"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000243.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="243"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000251.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="251"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000274.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="274"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000275.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="275"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000276.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="276"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000285.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="285"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000300.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="300"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000296.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="296"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000299.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="299"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000265.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="265"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000286.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="286"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000288.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="288"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="252"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000162.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="162"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000167.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="167"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000172.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="172"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000175.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="175"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000207.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="207"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000278.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="278"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000294.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="294"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000298.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="298"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000176.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="176"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000177.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="177"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="211"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="215"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000228.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="228"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000250.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="250"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000257.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="257"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000259.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="259"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="267"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="269"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="277"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000302.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="302"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000303.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="303"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000246.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="246"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="255"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000258.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="258"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="260"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000264.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="264"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000244.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="244"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000245.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="245"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="197"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="203"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000209.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="209"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000218.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="218"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000225.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="225"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000238.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="238"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000184.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="184"></A><I>Mark Ewert</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000179.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="179"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000208.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="208"></A><I>Glaze</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000216.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="216"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000232.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="232"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000233.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="233"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000270.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="270"></A><I>Bret Guillet</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000222.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="222"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000227.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="227"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000224.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="224"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000266.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="266"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000268.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="268"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000283.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="283"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000293.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="293"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000220.html">[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</A> <A NAME="220"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000223.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="223"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000204.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="204"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="163"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000181.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="181"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="253"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="261"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="263"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A> <A NAME="282"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000291.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="291"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000295.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="295"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000301.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="301"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000305.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="305"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000280.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="280"></A><I>Ian Holsman</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000272.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="272"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="308"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000254.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="254"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000166.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="166"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000171.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="171"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000173.html">[Nel] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="173"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000190.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="190"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A> <A NAME="194"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000273.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="273"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000284.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="284"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000289.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="289"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000290.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="290"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000292.html">[Nel] State Threads library</A> <A NAME="292"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000297.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="297"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000178.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="178"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000188.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="188"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000229.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="229"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000240.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="240"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000287.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="287"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="195"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000196.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="196"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="198"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000200.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="200"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="205"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000217.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="217"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000219.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="219"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="221"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="189"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000191.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="191"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="186"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="249"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000226.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="226"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000256.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="256"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000271.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="271"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="279"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000180.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="180"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000183.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="183"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="199"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000174.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="174"></A><I>Olivier Tarnus</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000185.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="185"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000201.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="201"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000202.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="202"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000214.html">[Nel] RE: Dave Null</A> <A NAME="214"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000170.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="170"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000239.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="239"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000169.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="169"></A><I>Carl Vilbrandt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="262"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000281.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="281"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000192.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="192"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000304.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="304"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000307.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="307"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000242.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="242"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="247"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="248"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000309.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="309"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000306.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="306"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="237"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,197 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-February Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Feb  7 15:02:57 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 149<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000161.html">[Nel] New release</A> <A NAME="161"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000162.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="162"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="163"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000165.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="165"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="164"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000166.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="166"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000167.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="167"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000168.html">[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</A> <A NAME="168"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000170.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="170"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000169.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="169"></A><I>Carl Vilbrandt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000171.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="171"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000172.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="172"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000173.html">[Nel] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="173"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000174.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="174"></A><I>Olivier Tarnus</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000175.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="175"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000176.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="176"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000177.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="177"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000178.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="178"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000179.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="179"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000180.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="180"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000182.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="182"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000181.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="181"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000183.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="183"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000184.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="184"></A><I>Mark Ewert</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000185.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="185"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="186"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000187.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="187"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000188.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="188"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="189"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000190.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="190"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000191.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="191"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000192.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="192"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000193.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="193"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A> <A NAME="194"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="195"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000196.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="196"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="197"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="198"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="199"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000200.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="200"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000201.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="201"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000202.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="202"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="203"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000204.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="204"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="205"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000206.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="206"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000207.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="207"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000208.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="208"></A><I>Glaze</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000209.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="209"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="210"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="211"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000212.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="212"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000213.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="213"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000214.html">[Nel] RE: Dave Null</A> <A NAME="214"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="215"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000216.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="216"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000217.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="217"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000218.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="218"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000219.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="219"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000220.html">[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</A> <A NAME="220"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000223.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="223"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="221"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000222.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="222"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000225.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="225"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000224.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="224"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000226.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="226"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000227.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="227"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000228.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="228"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000229.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="229"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000230.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="230"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000231.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="231"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000232.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="232"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000233.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="233"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000234.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="234"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000235.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="235"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="236"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="237"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000238.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="238"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000239.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="239"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000240.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="240"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000241.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="241"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000242.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="242"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000243.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="243"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000244.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="244"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000245.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="245"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000246.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="246"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="247"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="248"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="249"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000250.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="250"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000251.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="251"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="252"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="253"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000254.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="254"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="255"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000256.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="256"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000257.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="257"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000258.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="258"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000259.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="259"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="260"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="261"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="262"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="263"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000264.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="264"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000265.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="265"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000266.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="266"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="267"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000268.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="268"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="269"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000270.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="270"></A><I>Bret Guillet</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000271.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="271"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000272.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="272"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000273.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="273"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000274.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="274"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000275.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="275"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000276.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="276"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="277"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000278.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="278"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="279"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000280.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="280"></A><I>Ian Holsman</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000281.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="281"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A> <A NAME="282"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000283.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="283"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000284.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="284"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000285.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="285"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000286.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="286"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000287.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="287"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000288.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="288"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000289.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="289"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000290.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="290"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000291.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="291"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000292.html">[Nel] State Threads library</A> <A NAME="292"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000293.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="293"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000295.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="295"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000296.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="296"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000297.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="297"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000294.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="294"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000299.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="299"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000300.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="300"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000301.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="301"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000298.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="298"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000302.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="302"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000303.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="303"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000304.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="304"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000306.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="306"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000305.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="305"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000307.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="307"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="308"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000309.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="309"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9f74d8d6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,456 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-February Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Feb  7 15:02:57 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 149<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00981554577- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000161.html">[Nel] New release</A> <A NAME="1071"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00981570512- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000162.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="1072"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981570512-00981621583- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000166.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="1076"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981570512-00981621583-00981984512- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000188.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="1098"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981582927- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="1073"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981582927-00981615945- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000165.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="1075"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--1 00981582927-00981616018- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="1074"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981639033- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000167.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="1077"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981639033-00981704738- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000171.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="1081"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981639033-00981704738-00981707663- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000172.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="1082"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981643726- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000168.html">[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</A> <A NAME="1078"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00981678764- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000169.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="1079"></A><I>Carl Vilbrandt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981678764-00981660706- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000170.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="1080"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981712915- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000173.html">[Nel] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="1083"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--0 00981722019- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000174.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1084"></A><I>Olivier Tarnus</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981722019-00981724094- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000175.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1085"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981722019-00981724094-00981730033- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000176.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1086"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00981722019-00981724094-00981730033-00981733092- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000177.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1087"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981744858- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000178.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="1088"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--0 00981745580- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000179.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="1089"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<!--0 00981751638- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000180.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1090"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981751638-00981752260- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000182.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1092"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<!--1 00981751638-00981752610- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000181.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1091"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981771504- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000183.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1093"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981771504-00981966117- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000187.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1097"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981844677- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000184.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="1094"></A><I>Mark Ewert</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981844677-00981962019- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="1096"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981892011- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000185.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1095"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<!--0 00981987338- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="1099"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981987338-00981989632- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000190.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="1100"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981987338-00981989632-00981991693- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000191.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="1101"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982256276- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000192.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="1102"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982256276-00982338537- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000193.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="1103"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982256276-00982338537-00982593521- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="1120"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982342800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A> <A NAME="1104"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--0 00982440815- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1105"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982440815-00982441563- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1107"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982440815-00982441563-00982594314- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1121"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982440815-00982441563-00982594314-00982615599- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000218.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1128"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--3 00982440815-00982441563-00982594314-00982615599-00982658720- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000228.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1138"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982441062- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000196.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="1106"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982441062-00982442659- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="1108"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982482130- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="1109"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982482130-00982525737- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="1113"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982491895- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000200.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="1110"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982491895-00982528488- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000204.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="1114"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982491895-00982528488-00982541048- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="1115"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982495650- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000201.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1111"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982495650-00982601571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1125"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982505240- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000202.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1112"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982505240-00982574149- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000206.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1116"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000207.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1117"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000208.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1118"></A><I>Glaze</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982593026- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000209.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1119"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982593026-00982595055- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000212.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1122"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000213.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1123"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982604761- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000216.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1126"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982604761-00982672501- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000231.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1141"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982604761-00982672501-00982675144- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000232.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1142"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000217.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1127"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000229.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1139"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000230.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1140"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632-00982675298- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000233.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1143"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632-00982675298-00982693681- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000240.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1150"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632-00982675298-00982693681-00982747283- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000241.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1151"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982599803- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000214.html">[Nel] RE: Dave Null</A> <A NAME="1124"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<!--0 00982616160- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000219.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="1129"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982616160-00982684800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="1146"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982618960- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000220.html">[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</A> <A NAME="1130"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<!--0 00982626104- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1131"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982627958- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000222.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1132"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982627958-00982625553- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000223.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1133"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982627958-00982628806- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000225.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1135"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982627958-00982629348- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000224.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1134"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982627958-00982629348-00982633530- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000227.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1137"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982630242- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000226.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1136"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982630242-00982677320- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000235.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1145"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982676193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000234.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1144"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000238.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1148"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000239.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1149"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000243.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1153"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774-00982784379- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000244.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="1154"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774-00982784379-00982784707- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000245.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="1155"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774-00982784379-00982784707-00982835794- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000251.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="1161"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982687131- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1147"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982748266- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000242.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="1152"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<!--0 00982797430- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000246.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1156"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982797430-00982832415- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000250.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1160"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1165"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779-00982860384- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000257.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1167"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--3 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779-00982860384-00982862156- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000258.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1168"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<!--3 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779-00982860384-00982862156-00982863462- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000259.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1169"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982809996- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="1157"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<!--0 00982830827- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="1158"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982830827-00982832107- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="1159"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982852872- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1162"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982852872-00982854117- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1163"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982852872-00982854117-00982854890- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000254.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1164"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<!--2 00982852872-00982854117-00982857223- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000256.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1166"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--2 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000272.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1182"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000278.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1188"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835-00983211431- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1189"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835-00983211431-00983350130- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000290.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1200"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835-00983211431-00983352790- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000292.html">[Nel] State Threads library</A> <A NAME="1202"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000287.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1197"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000289.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1199"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983350631- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000291.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1201"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000294.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1204"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983365853- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000295.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1205"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983366915- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000297.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1207"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000298.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1208"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983369482- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000301.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1211"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000304.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1214"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983382752- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000305.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1215"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983382752-00983382705- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000306.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1216"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983382752-00983383702- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000307.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1217"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983394792- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1218"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982852872-00982876359- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1173"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982865955- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1170"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982865955-00982874665- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1171"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982865955-00982874665-00982875813- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1172"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982865955-00982895106- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000264.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1174"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982865955-00982895106-00983196905- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1179"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982984842- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000265.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="1175"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982984842-00983195598- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="1177"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982984842-00983195598-00983196748- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000268.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="1178"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982984842-00983195598-00983196748-00983204327- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000274.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="1184"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982984842-00983195598-00983196748-00983206964- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="1187"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983032141- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000266.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1176"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983032141-00983198562- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000270.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1180"></A><I>Bret Guillet</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000275.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1185"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576-00983236680- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000283.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1193"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<!--3 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576-00983236680-00983261304- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000284.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1194"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576-00983236680-00983345681- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000288.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1198"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 00983032141-00983198562-00983217551- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000281.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1191"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00983032141-00983289605- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000285.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1195"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983201562- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000271.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="1181"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983201562-00983202869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000273.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="1183"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00983201562-00983204694- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000276.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="1186"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983217255- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000280.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1190"></A><I>Ian Holsman</I>
+<!--0 00983221908- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A> <A NAME="1192"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--0 00983306670- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000286.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="1196"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983306670-00983371749- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000302.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="1212"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983358977- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000293.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1203"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983358977-00983366163- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000296.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1206"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983358977-00983366163-00983367512- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000299.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1209"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00983358977-00983366163-00983367512-00983369117- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000300.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1210"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00983358977-00983373800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000303.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1213"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983395695- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000309.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="1219"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d9d79edf
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,197 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-February Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Feb  7 15:02:57 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 149<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000265.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="265"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="267"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000268.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="268"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000274.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="274"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="277"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="248"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="249"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000219.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="219"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="236"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="189"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000190.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="190"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000191.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="191"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000174.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="174"></A><I>Olivier Tarnus</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000175.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="175"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000176.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="176"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000177.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="177"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000180.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="180"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000182.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="182"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000181.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="181"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000183.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="183"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000187.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="187"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000220.html">[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</A> <A NAME="220"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000201.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="201"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000207.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="207"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="215"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000170.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="170"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000169.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="169"></A><I>Carl Vilbrandt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A> <A NAME="282"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000184.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="184"></A><I>Mark Ewert</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="186"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000208.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="208"></A><I>Glaze</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000209.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="209"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000212.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="212"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000213.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="213"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000216.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="216"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000217.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="217"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000229.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="229"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000230.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="230"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000231.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="231"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000232.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="232"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000233.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="233"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000240.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="240"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000241.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="241"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000309.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="309"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000266.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="266"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000270.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="270"></A><I>Bret Guillet</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000275.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="275"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000281.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="281"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000283.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="283"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000284.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="284"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000285.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="285"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000288.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="288"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="195"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="197"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="211"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000218.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="218"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000228.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="228"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000178.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="178"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000179.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="179"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="199"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="203"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000246.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="246"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000250.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="250"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="255"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000257.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="257"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000258.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="258"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000259.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="259"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000196.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="196"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="198"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000162.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="162"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000166.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="166"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000188.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="188"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000293.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="293"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000296.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="296"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000299.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="299"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000300.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="300"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000303.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="303"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000242.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="242"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="247"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="260"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="261"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="262"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000264.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="264"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="269"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="252"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="253"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000254.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="254"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="263"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000272.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="272"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000278.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="278"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000280.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="280"></A><I>Ian Holsman</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000287.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="287"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000289.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="289"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000291.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="291"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000295.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="295"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000297.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="297"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000294.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="294"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000301.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="301"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000298.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="298"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000304.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="304"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000306.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="306"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000305.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="305"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000307.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="307"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="308"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000161.html">[Nel] New release</A> <A NAME="161"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="163"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000165.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="165"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="164"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000200.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="200"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000204.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="204"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="205"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000167.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="167"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000171.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="171"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000172.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="172"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000202.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="202"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000206.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="206"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000214.html">[Nel] RE: Dave Null</A> <A NAME="214"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000185.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="185"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000286.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="286"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000302.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="302"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A> <A NAME="194"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000192.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="192"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000193.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="193"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="210"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000173.html">[Nel] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="173"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000168.html">[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</A> <A NAME="168"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000271.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="271"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000273.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="273"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000276.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="276"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000223.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="223"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="221"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000222.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="222"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000225.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="225"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000224.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="224"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000226.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="226"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000227.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="227"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000234.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="234"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000235.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="235"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="237"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000238.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="238"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000239.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="239"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000243.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="243"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000292.html">[Nel] State Threads library</A> <A NAME="292"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000244.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="244"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000245.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="245"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000251.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="251"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000256.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="256"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="279"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000290.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="290"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9f74d8d6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,456 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-February Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Feb  7 15:02:57 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 149<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00981554577- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000161.html">[Nel] New release</A> <A NAME="1071"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00981570512- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000162.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="1072"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981570512-00981621583- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000166.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="1076"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981570512-00981621583-00981984512- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000188.html">[Nel] Linux compilation pb</A> <A NAME="1098"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981582927- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000163.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="1073"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981582927-00981615945- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000165.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="1075"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--1 00981582927-00981616018- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000164.html">[Nel] news about nevrax on /.</A> <A NAME="1074"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981639033- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000167.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="1077"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981639033-00981704738- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000171.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="1081"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981639033-00981704738-00981707663- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000172.html">[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256</A> <A NAME="1082"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981643726- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000168.html">[Nel] Some &quot;heavy&quot; perturbations...</A> <A NAME="1078"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00981678764- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000169.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="1079"></A><I>Carl Vilbrandt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981678764-00981660706- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000170.html">[Nel] Computer Arts Lab</A> <A NAME="1080"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981712915- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000173.html">[Nel] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="1083"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--0 00981722019- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000174.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1084"></A><I>Olivier Tarnus</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981722019-00981724094- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000175.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1085"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981722019-00981724094-00981730033- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000176.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1086"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00981722019-00981724094-00981730033-00981733092- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000177.html">[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....</A> <A NAME="1087"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981744858- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000178.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="1088"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--0 00981745580- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000179.html">[Nel] Hello Slashdot !</A> <A NAME="1089"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<!--0 00981751638- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000180.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1090"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981751638-00981752260- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000182.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1092"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<!--1 00981751638-00981752610- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000181.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1091"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981771504- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000183.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1093"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981771504-00981966117- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000187.html">[Nel] Compilation under VC6</A> <A NAME="1097"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981844677- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000184.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="1094"></A><I>Mark Ewert</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981844677-00981962019- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000186.html">[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting</A> <A NAME="1096"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981892011- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000185.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1095"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<!--0 00981987338- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000189.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="1099"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981987338-00981989632- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000190.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="1100"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981987338-00981989632-00981991693- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000191.html">[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT</A> <A NAME="1101"></A><I>Mark W. Oosterveld</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982256276- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000192.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="1102"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982256276-00982338537- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000193.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="1103"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982256276-00982338537-00982593521- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000210.html">[Nel] Snowballs Data &amp; CVS</A> <A NAME="1120"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982342800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000194.html">[Nel] samples for NeL!!!</A> <A NAME="1104"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--0 00982440815- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000195.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1105"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982440815-00982441563- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000197.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1107"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982440815-00982441563-00982594314- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000211.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1121"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982440815-00982441563-00982594314-00982615599- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000218.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1128"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--3 00982440815-00982441563-00982594314-00982615599-00982658720- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000228.html">[Nel] gl.h</A> <A NAME="1138"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982441062- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000196.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="1106"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982441062-00982442659- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000198.html">[Nel] Linking Services</A> <A NAME="1108"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982482130- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000199.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="1109"></A><I>Slistak Shady</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982482130-00982525737- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000203.html">[Nel] Link Error</A> <A NAME="1113"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982491895- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000200.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="1110"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982491895-00982528488- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000204.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="1114"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982491895-00982528488-00982541048- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000205.html">[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...</A> <A NAME="1115"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982495650- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000201.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1111"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982495650-00982601571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000215.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1125"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982505240- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000202.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1112"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982505240-00982574149- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000206.html">[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1116"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000207.html">[Nel] Compiling under Linux</A> <A NAME="1117"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000208.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1118"></A><I>Glaze</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982593026- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000209.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1119"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982593026-00982595055- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000212.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1122"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000213.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1123"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982604761- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000216.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1126"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982604761-00982672501- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000231.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1141"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982604761-00982672501-00982675144- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000232.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1142"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000217.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1127"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000229.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1139"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000230.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1140"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632-00982675298- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000233.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1143"></A><I>Nahuel Greco</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632-00982675298-00982693681- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000240.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1150"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00982505240-00982574149-00982579755-00982589845-00982596813-00982615439-00982659414-00982671632-00982675298-00982693681-00982747283- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000241.html">[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?</A> <A NAME="1151"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982599803- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000214.html">[Nel] RE: Dave Null</A> <A NAME="1124"></A><I>Tels</I>
+<!--0 00982616160- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000219.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="1129"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982616160-00982684800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000236.html">[Nel] Building a FAQ?</A> <A NAME="1146"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982618960- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000220.html">[Nel] Compiling on Linux....</A> <A NAME="1130"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<!--0 00982626104- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000221.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1131"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982627958- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000222.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1132"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982627958-00982625553- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000223.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1133"></A><I>James Hearn</I>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982627958-00982628806- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000225.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1135"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982627958-00982629348- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000224.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1134"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982627958-00982629348-00982633530- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000227.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1137"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982630242- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000226.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1136"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982630242-00982677320- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000235.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1145"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982676193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000234.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1144"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000238.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1148"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000239.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1149"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000243.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1153"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774-00982784379- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000244.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="1154"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774-00982784379-00982784707- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000245.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="1155"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<!--3 00982626104-00982676193-00982689817-00982689827-00982772774-00982784379-00982784707-00982835794- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000251.html">[Nel] System specs</A> <A NAME="1161"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982626104-00982687131- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000237.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A> <A NAME="1147"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982748266- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000242.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="1152"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<!--0 00982797430- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000246.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1156"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982797430-00982832415- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000250.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1160"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000255.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1165"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779-00982860384- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000257.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1167"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--3 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779-00982860384-00982862156- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000258.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1168"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<!--3 00982797430-00982832415-00982855779-00982860384-00982862156-00982863462- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000259.html">[Nel] Link error</A> <A NAME="1169"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982809996- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000247.html">[Nel] maybe bug</A> <A NAME="1157"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<!--0 00982830827- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000248.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="1158"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982830827-00982832107- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000249.html">[Nel] agent service</A> <A NAME="1159"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982852872- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000252.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1162"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982852872-00982854117- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000253.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1163"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982852872-00982854117-00982854890- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000254.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1164"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<!--2 00982852872-00982854117-00982857223- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000256.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1166"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--2 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000272.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1182"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000278.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1188"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835-00983211431- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000279.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1189"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835-00983211431-00983350130- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000290.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1200"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983209835-00983211431-00983352790- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000292.html">[Nel] State Threads library</A> <A NAME="1202"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000287.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1197"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000289.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1199"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983350631- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000291.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1201"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000294.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1204"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983365853- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000295.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1205"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983366915- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000297.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1207"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000298.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1208"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983369482- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000301.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1211"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000304.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1214"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983382752- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000305.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1215"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983382752-00983382705- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000306.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1216"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983382752-00983383702- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000307.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1217"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00982852872-00982854117-00983202579-00983341866-00983347639-00983367032-00983370655-00983376299-00983394792- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000308.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1218"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982852872-00982876359- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000263.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1173"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982865955- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000260.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1170"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982865955-00982874665- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000261.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1171"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982865955-00982874665-00982875813- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000262.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1172"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00982865955-00982895106- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000264.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1174"></A><I>Jason Dominiczak</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982865955-00982895106-00983196905- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000269.html">[Nel] Memory error</A> <A NAME="1179"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00982984842- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000265.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="1175"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00982984842-00983195598- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000267.html">[Nel] 2 questions</A> <A NAME="1177"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00982984842-00983195598-00983196748- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000268.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="1178"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00982984842-00983195598-00983196748-00983204327- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000274.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="1184"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00982984842-00983195598-00983196748-00983206964- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000277.html">[Nel] 2 questions and something else</A> <A NAME="1187"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983032141- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000266.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1176"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983032141-00983198562- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000270.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1180"></A><I>Bret Guillet</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000275.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1185"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576-00983236680- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000283.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1193"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<!--3 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576-00983236680-00983261304- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000284.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1194"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00983032141-00983198562-00983204576-00983236680-00983345681- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000288.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1198"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 00983032141-00983198562-00983217551- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000281.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1191"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00983032141-00983289605- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000285.html">[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.</A> <A NAME="1195"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983201562- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000271.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="1181"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983201562-00983202869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000273.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="1183"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00983201562-00983204694- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000276.html">[Nel] Some screen shots</A> <A NAME="1186"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983217255- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000280.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1190"></A><I>Ian Holsman</I>
+<!--0 00983221908- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000282.html">[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century:
+ Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'</A> <A NAME="1192"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--0 00983306670- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000286.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="1196"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983306670-00983371749- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000302.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs</A> <A NAME="1212"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983358977- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000293.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1203"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983358977-00983366163- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000296.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1206"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983358977-00983366163-00983367512- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000299.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1209"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00983358977-00983366163-00983367512-00983369117- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000300.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1210"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00983358977-00983373800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000303.html">[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches</A> <A NAME="1213"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983395695- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000309.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="1219"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000087.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000087.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..713d9057
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000087.html
@@ -0,0 +1,69 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling in VC++</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000112.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000088.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling in VC++</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling in VC++">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:10:42 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#87">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#87">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#87">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#87">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+Why haven't you said that you have example game data up?!?
+
+When i tried to open the .dsw's VC++ would just say that it was a &quot;Empty 
+workspce&quot; with &quot;0 projects&quot;.
+The reason for this was that all the VC++ files from the CVS are in UNIX
+format, i.e. the linefeeds are messed up.
+You should proboblay put a notice in the &quot;Install&quot; file about it.
+
+/David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#87">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#87">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#87">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#87">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000088.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000088.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..16c604ed
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000088.html
@@ -0,0 +1,87 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling in VC++</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000087.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000099.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling in VC++</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling in VC++">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:56:19 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000099.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#88">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#88">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#88">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#88">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>:
+&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i> Why haven't you said that you have example game data up?!?
+</I>
+We're still trying to finish the complete packaging for the 0.2 version
+(i.e. the first running prototype). And finding a machine to run an
+&quot;official&quot; server here for those who can't run server and client at home.
+
+The big announce will be made as soon as we've got time to polish that
+(and we'll probably open a download area so people without CVS can get
+ full packages at key points)
+
+&gt;<i> The reason for this was that all the VC++ files from the CVS are in UNIX
+</I>&gt;<i> format, i.e. the linefeeds are messed up.
+</I>
+The CVS tools should &quot;properly&quot; convert text files between unix/dos
+linefeed conventions. We're using WinCVS 1.1 here, and the files are
+correctly formatted while working on a windows client, and back to LF when
+commited.
+
+&gt;<i> You should proboblay put a notice in the &quot;Install&quot; file about it.
+</I>
+We'll put a Caveat there.
+
+Oh, and by the way, happy new millenium all!
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A></li>
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#88">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#88">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#88">[ author ]</a>
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000089.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000089.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..67623cf6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000089.html
@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</H1>
+    <B>Nevrax</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)">nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:14:04 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi, and happy new millenium to everyone!
+First I'd like to say that I'm gratly impressed by your work!
+So please do not take my comments as hard critcisms...
+
+You seem to be building everything from scratch while a quick search
+at sourceforge.net for MMORPG seems to suggest that there are plenty
+of already available material. You say that you had to work at your own
+(impressive) speed and did not want to hijack an existing project...
+But you seem to give up quite easly to good part of the GPL, you could have
+forked an existing project: the maintainer would hold no grudge against you
+as you would not take any of his/her volonteers but instead bring your team
+to some work he/she could also benefit.
+Even for low-level, everyday use classes, you seem to always invent your
+own (callbacks, smart pointers and sockets come to mind).
+I understand that your code is (honestly !) of far better quality than the
+average available crap (I also find myself to rewrite much of the code that
+I'm supposed to used) but there are exceptions (libsigc++ or any stuff from
+www.boost.org for exemple). I just hope that nevrax does not lose time because
+of a Not Invented Here syndrom...
+&gt;<i>From the docs online I had even the impression that you wanted to use you own
+</I>custom scripting language (for ai I think). What is wrong with Python ?
+I even thought that the stackless (especially microthreads) would be nice
+for massively numerous agents :-)
+
+
+By the way, I'm impressed by that amount of work already done, how many of
+the mythical month-man have you put in current cvs ?
+
+It is not often that I can build source code so easly on my alpha!
+You bug-fixes were really fast... (I mean FAST!)
+
+For your information, on a Debian woody, one should 'apt-get install'
+the following packages (might go in a README or INSTALL):
+automake
+libtool
+libstlport-dev
+truetype2-dev
+bison
+flex
+libfreetype6-dev
+xlibmesa-dev
+
+beta-builder, soon beta testerly yours,
+ 
+Bernard
+(typing startx right now to see the beast)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000090.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000090.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</H1>
+    <B>sameh chafik Pro</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:38:52 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello, what you say is very interesting and I understand question let me
+answer to your python question you say
+
+&gt;<i>From the docs online I had even the impression that you wanted to use you
+</I>own
+&gt;<i>custom scripting language (for ai I think). What is wrong with Python ?
+</I>&gt;<i>I even thought that the stackless (especially microthreads) would be nice
+</I>&gt;<i>for massively numerous agents :-)
+</I>
+Python is a very good script language, I used it a lot for many work and i
+know it quite well, but if we use a custom scripting language that doesn't
+mean that we'll use it exclusively. On the contrary the script will allow a
+good opening to use any external script languag and we encourage that. Note
+that Nel script is an script for write agent and is an agent ortiented
+language we desigined  to lighten the design of agents and game desigin
+code.
+And it seem to be more heavy to write the Python agent interface instead of
+write the custom Nel script, due mainly to the lack of means to write agents
+connection in a classical language and secondly the need to rewirte C++ code
+for the python interface.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000091.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000091.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c6e2ec72
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:54:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000090.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi and Happy New Year to all NeLers !
+
+Bernard: Thanks for your comments.
+It's always nice to hear that kind of stuff. :)
+
+At 09:14 PM 1/3/01 +0100, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>any stuff from
+</I>&gt;<i>www.boost.org
+</I>
+We've been trying to reach boost.org since we saw your comment in the bug 
+tracking system, but it doesn't seem to respond... :(
+
+Also, would you mind configuring your email to display your name instead of 
+&quot;Nevrax&quot; ? It's a bit unsetteling...
+
+Thanks !
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000092.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000092.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..12fb5f0f
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@@ -0,0 +1,98 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000102.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000112.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:25:53 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000102.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello and thank you for your post.
+
+First of all, we had the problem to know which external copyleft libraries
+we could
+use in our project. We looked at libraries such as ACE (for sockets),
+ClanLib (for
+system init), libsock++ (for sockets too), SDL and so on, but the problem
+was that these libraries did too much things or not enough. If a library
+does only a few things, we can rewrite it very quickly (with, why not,
+copy/paste)
+because we want the install very easy to do. If the user has to find and
+install
+10 libraries before starting the NeL compilation, he surely gives up. When
+the
+library does too much stuff, it often doesn't do it in the same way we want
+to do it,
+and we can only reuse a few part of the library. And in this case, it's sad
+to compile
+during 1 hour an external library for only reusing only a few functions. We
+prefer copy/pasting
+these parts directly in our lib.
+
+&gt;<i> I understand that your code is (honestly !) of far better quality than the
+</I>&gt;<i> average available crap (I also find myself to rewrite much of the code
+</I>that
+&gt;<i> I'm supposed to used) but there are exceptions (libsigc++ or any stuff
+</I>from
+&gt;<i> www.boost.org for exemple). I just hope that nevrax does not lose time
+</I>because
+&gt;<i> of a Not Invented Here syndrom...
+</I>
+We'll take a look on libsigc++ and boost. we don't reinvent every thing, we
+only reuse code
+from other libraries but we don't include the entire libraries.
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000093.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000093.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..739a47c3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000093.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</H1>
+    <B>Bernard Hugueney</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)">nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:42:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000091.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+You really deserve the responsiveness award !
+
+* Olivier Lejade &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lejade@nevrax.com">lejade@nevrax.com</A>&gt; [010104 11:04]:
+&gt;<i> Hi and Happy New Year to all NeLers !
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Bernard: Thanks for your comments.
+</I>&gt;<i> It's always nice to hear that kind of stuff. :)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> At 09:14 PM 1/3/01 +0100, you wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;any stuff from
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;www.boost.org
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We've been trying to reach boost.org since we saw your comment in the bug
+</I>&gt;<i> tracking system, but it doesn't seem to respond... :(
+</I>My bad luck :-( It's the first time that it's down so long since I know it.
+I'm on their mailing list so I should know soon what is wrong.
+(While typing this mail I read
+
+   &gt;The web site should now be available at 64.226.201.52
+   &gt;
+   &gt;The DNS change to resolve boost.org to that address has been  submitted to
+   &gt;Network Solutions. I have no idea how long they will take to process it.
+   &gt;
+on the mailing list, will teach them not to deal with NS when they could use
+GANDI :-) )
+
+their cvs is host at sourceforge <A HREF="http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/">http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/</A>
+and they are an e-group www.egroups.com
+The very best C++ coders I've ever heard are there.
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Also, would you mind configuring your email to display your name instead of
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;Nevrax&quot; ? It's a bit unsetteling...
+</I>Damn, I'll have to modify my nevrax account, sorry for the mistake,
+(modifs done)Is that ok now ?
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000094.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000094.html
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index 00000000..8f26c3a8
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000094.html
@@ -0,0 +1,50 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 04 Jan 2001 11:58:27 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000093.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At 11:42 AM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>(modifs done)Is that ok now ?
+</I>Yes, thanks. And thanks for the pointer too !
+We'll have a look at it ASAP.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000095.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000095.html
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index 00000000..103f4d12
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@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Boost.org</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Boost.org">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:20:42 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000094.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE> From the information gathered on
+
+<A HREF="http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License">http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License</A>
+
+there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and 
+the GPL.
+
+So I'm afraid this is a good reason why we can't use them in NeL, even 
+though they appear to be of very good quality. :(
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000096.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000096.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Boost.org</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Boost.org">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:35:10 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000095.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At 12:20 PM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and 
+</I>&gt;<i>the GPL.
+</I>
+And then again, maybe not. :)
+We're looking into it...
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000097.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000097.html
new file mode 100644
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] re: Boost library</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] re: Boost library</H1>
+    <B>Bernard Hugueney</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] re: Boost library">nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:54:08 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000096.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Olivier Lejade &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lejade@nevrax.com">lejade@nevrax.com</A>&gt; wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> From the information gathered on
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License">http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and
+</I>&gt;<i>the GPL.
+</I>
+I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think. You could not
+submit Nel for Boost acceptance, 
+&lt;Quote&gt;
+   To avoid the frustration and wasted time of a proposed library being
+   rejected, it must meets these requirements:
+     * The license must meet the license requirements below. Restricted
+       licenses like the GPL and LGPL are not acceptable.
+ &lt;/Quote&gt;
+Note : &quot;proposed library&quot;
+No such restriction is imposed on code using a boost library: reading from
+their licenses requirement
+&lt;Quote&gt;
+     * Must grant permission to copy, use and modify the software for any
+       use (commercial and non-commercial) for no fee.
+&lt;/Quote&gt;
+
+You cannot say that you are not allowed to use a library with such a
+licence (Note: ANY USE ) !!!
+
+I don't want to force you to use anything from boost, I just would want you
+to dismiss it for bad reasons. As a C++ coder, I found it invaluable
+(just for fun you migh look at the lambda library at <A HREF="http://lambda.cs.utu.fi/">http://lambda.cs.utu.fi/</A>
+I never thought it would be possible). Of course their aim to &quot;perfection&quot;
+leads them to move slowly at time (network threads are not there yet...), and
+their advanced use of C++ clashes with crappy compiler (VC++). But if you
+can use it, their stuff really shines. I have not tested their py_cpp
+c++ to python wrapper, but I though you might be interested.
+
+Happy coding !
+Bernard
+(kinda jealous not to code for my living)
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000098.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000098.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] re: Boost library</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] re: Boost library</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] re: Boost library">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:15:31 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000097.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000101.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At 06:54 PM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+</I>&gt;<i>library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think.
+</I>
+Yes, this is what I noticed afterwards. :P
+Hence my &quot;maybe not&quot; post.
+Anyways, thanks for the clarification and now that the license issue is 
+cleared, rest assured we'll pay closer attentions to the libs.
+
+&gt;<i>I don't want to force you to use anything from boost, I just would want you
+</I>&gt;<i>to dismiss it for bad reasons.
+</I>
+Arg, it wasn't my intent !
+At first reading I just thought there was licensing compatibilities issues 
+that prevented the use of the libs for GPL/LGP programs. My bad: I was 
+wrong. But it sure would be nice to incorporate Boost stuff if we can !
+Actually, Cyrille (3D Lead) went to school with one of the Boost guys... :)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000099.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000099.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1f6e2e7d
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:23:04 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>the debian packages for all requirements are installed- stlport has been
+installed from source over the debian version to get the nebula device
+(radonlabs.de) to work.
+
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/include/freetype2
+-I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2 -Wp,-MD,.deps/mini_col.pp -c mini_col.cpp
+-fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mini_col.lo
+In file included from ../../include/nel/3d/mini_col.h:33,
+                 from mini_col.cpp:26:
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `class
+NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;T&gt;::CIterator
+NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;T&gt;::erase(NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;T&gt;::CIterator)':
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h:402: parse error before `*'
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;NL3D::CMiniCol::CFace&gt;::selectAll()':
+
+any ideas?
+
+michael warnock
+in orbit entertainment
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000100.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000100.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..27947c6f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000100.html
@@ -0,0 +1,73 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:53:19 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000099.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/include/freetype2
+</I>&gt;<i> -I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2 -Wp,-MD,.deps/mini_col.pp -c mini_col.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mini_col.lo
+</I>&gt;<i> In file included from ../../include/nel/3d/mini_col.h:33,
+</I>&gt;<i>                  from mini_col.cpp:26:
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `class
+</I>&gt;<i> NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;T&gt;::CIterator
+</I>&gt;<i> NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;T&gt;::erase(NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;T&gt;::CIterator)':
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h:402: parse error before `*'
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `void
+</I>&gt;<i> NL3D::CQuadGrid&lt;NL3D::CMiniCol::CFace&gt;::selectAll()':
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> any ideas?
+</I>
+This bug has been fixed yesterday evening. The cvs is synchronized at night.
+So if you update now, it should be ok.
+
+Thank you for the report.
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000101.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000101.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] re: Boost library</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] re: Boost library">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:39:53 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000098.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Bernard Hugueney:
+&gt;<i> I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+</I>&gt;<i> library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think. You could not
+</I>&gt;<i> submit Nel for Boost acceptance, 
+</I>
+Well, the same problem applies in the reverse. Libraries in Boost are
+not covered by a GPL-style license. Which means that they cannot be
+lifted verbatim from the Boost collection and incorporated in ours
+without a lot of precautions.
+
+Just like someone cannot take a GPL piece of software and turn it into
+a BSD-licensed software, one cannot lift a BSD-style software and put it
+into a GPL project. The licenses are &quot;orthogonal&quot; in style, and you
+cannot decide on your own to alter the license; only the copyright owner
+may do so.
+
+The license styles from Boost (the ones I've looked at so far, boost.org
+is unresolvable at the moment) would prevent us from incoporating them
+in NeL. We *might* be able to use them side-by-side, asking people to get
+them (and provide mirrors) and compile them separately, but they cannot
+be *part* of NeL.
+
+&gt;<i> &lt;Quote&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>      * Must grant permission to copy, use and modify the software for any
+</I>&gt;<i>        use (commercial and non-commercial) for no fee.
+</I>&gt;<i> &lt;/Quote&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You cannot say that you are not allowed to use a library with such a
+</I>&gt;<i> licence (Note: ANY USE ) !!!
+</I>
+The GPL is better worded in that regard; it says for no fee exceeding
+the cost of support and shipping (meaning I'm am not obliged to *pay* for
+*your* copy).
+
+&gt;<i> leads them to move slowly at time (network threads are not there yet...), and
+</I>&gt;<i> their advanced use of C++ clashes with crappy compiler (VC++). But if you
+</I>
+Well, we also have to use VC++. The compiler quirks may drive us crazy
+with all its &quot;let's not bother the developper with clarity, I'll guess
+what he wants to do&quot; philosophy, but there aren't many useful C++
+development environments when you're working on a Windows system.
+
+&gt;<i> Happy coding !
+</I>&gt;<i> Bernard
+</I>&gt;<i> (kinda jealous not to code for my living)
+</I>
+Many of us code for a living. We just don't code what we'd really love
+to code :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000102.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000102.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] re: Boost library</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] re: Boost library">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:00:26 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000101.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000092.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Vincent Archer:
+&gt;<i> a BSD-licensed software, one cannot lift a BSD-style software and put it
+</I>&gt;<i> into a GPL project. The licenses are &quot;orthogonal&quot; in style, and you
+</I>&gt;<i> cannot decide on your own to alter the license; only the copyright owner
+</I>&gt;<i> may do so.
+</I>
+A little precision on this subject.
+
+I was about immediately bashed on the head for my old-timer attitudes.
+The arguments I raise mostly apply to the so-called &quot;original BSD
+license&quot;, which had relatively strict advertising clauses on it which
+are incompatible with GPL. But for some reason, my brain is still locked
+in the 10-years-ago mode, and I don't think I'll ever shake it out 'till
+retirement home.
+
+The recent BSD licenses let you mix things with GPL. So, we can't
+incorporate Boost libraries into NeL, but we can happily get them, and
+use them, just like we use FreeType and the like.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000103.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000103.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..47afbadd
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:04:10 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000100.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000104.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+Thanx for the quick fix!
+
+here's another bug:
+same debian 2.2 (stlport 4.1 now)
+
+making the client:
+
+c++ -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2  -o client  client.o
+language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o
+player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o -lnelnet
+-lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/lib -lfreetype -lstlport_gcc
+zone_manager.o: In function `NLMISC::IRunnable type_info function':
+/usr/include/stlport/iostream(.text+0x0): multiple definition of
+`NLMISC::IThread::create(NLMISC::IRunnable *)'
+client.o(.text+0x0):/usr/include/stlport/stl/_construct.h: first defined here
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+make[2]: *** [client] Error 1
+
+we got all the servers running with code from the last hour or so.
+
+michael
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000104.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000104.html
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index 00000000..6b34c2ff
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+   <H1>[Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] File formats+other stuff">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:35:04 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000103.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000105.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+We're experimenting with NEL, great work :)  We are
+developing an MMRPG called &quot;Warp Storm&quot; and subscribe
+to the Open Source development model.  Our company
+and game is born from an GPL'ed project I've been
+leading since 1998 called Bang formerly known as
+JavaMOO.  Now we have a funded development effort
+going and have offices in San Francisco and Reykjavík,
+Iceland.
+
+We are considering assigning few full time programmers
+helping expanding the NEL code-base.
+
+I've gathered that there is support for .3ds for objects
+and .bmp for textures.  Is this correct?
+
+Is there any animation support?
+
+In what format is the landscape data tiles?
+
+Do you have an example of a config file for the
+client?
+
+What glues .3ds object files to the landscape
+data?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+<A HREF="mailto:robofly@in-orbit.net">robofly@in-orbit.net</A>
+
+President, InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+<A HREF="http://www.in-orbit.net/">http://www.in-orbit.net/</A>
+<A HREF="http://this.is/bang/">http://this.is/bang/</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000105.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000105.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3b43f495
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] File formats+other stuff</TITLE>
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] File formats+other stuff">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:33:31 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000104.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi, and welcome on the NeL list.
+
+&gt;<i> I've gathered that there is support for .3ds for objects
+</I>&gt;<i> and .bmp for textures.  Is this correct?
+</I>
+&gt;<i> In what format is the landscape data tiles?
+</I>
+&gt;<i> What glues .3ds object files to the landscape
+</I>&gt;<i> data?
+</I>
+NeL library supports only .tga file format and .dds (direct draw surface)
+for texture compression (DXTC1, 3 and 5).
+
+The NeL's way to load 3d data is the following:
+NeL only reads NeL binary files (like .shape, .bank or .zone). No support
+for .3ds files will be provided by Nevrax.
+The reason is .3ds is an old file format, and many new features simply don't
+exist in it. (vertex weigting, multiple UV by
+vertex, patches, vertex color ).
+It's easy to build and save NeL data. You only have to write a data
+converter or an export plugin for your
+3d editor linked with NeL. A paper about 'how to deal with NeL data' will
+come soon in the NeL documentation.
+
+At Nevrax, we use a set of crude plugins for 3dsmax builded with NeL, but we
+can't distribute them for the moment.
+
+&gt;<i> Is there any animation support?
+</I>
+Support for animation is planed for sure. Those features will be implemented
+in NeL:
+
+ * Hierarchical animations.
+ * Skinning (with T&amp;L support).
+ * Morphing (blend shape).
+ * IK solver (position constraints only).
+ * Animation layers (merge of weighted animations with IK constraints).
+
+&gt;<i> Do you have an example of a config file for the
+</I>&gt;<i> client?
+</I>
+I let my co-workers respond to this question.
+
+Thanks for your interest in the NeL project.
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000106.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000106.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1b06b16d
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000106.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] File formats+other stuff</TITLE>
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+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] File formats+other stuff">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:48:32 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000107.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+I m one of those co-workers and I'll answer your last question :)
+
+&gt;<i> Do you have an example of a config file for the
+</I>&gt;<i> client?
+</I>
+yes we have example of config file.
+in the generated doc, here:
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/class_NLMISC__CConfigFile.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/class_NLMISC__CConfigFile.html</A>
+you ll find an example of config file and a sample of code that use it.
+
+we already use the config file in the client, look client.cpp and search
+CConfigFile ;-)
+
+it's really quite easy to use, not very flexible but the reason is that we
+use lex&amp;yacc so
+we can't do all we wanted (like rewrite config file)
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000107.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000107.html
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index 00000000..bbb47e20
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] File formats+other stuff">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:15:48 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000106.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>hello again,
+
+Just a question, why do you want the client config file?
+The client automatically create the config file if the config file is not
+found.
+Anyway, you *can't* run the client because game data are not available for
+now.
+(you should wait few weeks ;-)
+
+vianney
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000108.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000108.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net">
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+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:03:49 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000113.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000111.html">[Nel] NeL compilation</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Olivier,
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 3:08:59 AM, you wrote:
+OL&gt; How is your organisation working ? What is the task of each office ?
+OL&gt; How much funding did you receive ? Why did you head for San Fransisco ? 
+
+Here is how our organization works:
+We have a management team of 8 people:
+President/Director, CFO, Producer, Lead World
+Builder/Lead Writer, Production Manager, VP of
+Computer Graphics, Lead Graphics Designer and
+Lead Animator.
+
+We have a Concept &amp; Illustration team of 6
+full time people.  This team is creating the
+look of the Warp Storm universe.
+
+We have a Computer Graphics team of 5 full time
+people.  This teams includes Donald Graham who
+did for an example the first 3D model of the
+International Space Station for NASA and Jim Citron
+who was the Technical Director for Tippett studios
+and worked for example on Starship Troopers,
+Armageddon and Godzilla.
+
+We have a Game Mechanics team of 3 full time
+people.  This team is responsible for designed
+the complex skill based role-playing system
+for Warp Storm.
+
+We have programming team of 4 full time
+programmers.  This team is currently focusing
+on the game mechanics and evaluating different
+Open Source technologies that we are considering
+for the Warp Storm platform.
+
+Currently we only have 3 employees in Reykjavík,
+Iceland.  Our CFO, Lead Graphics Designer and
+Interface Designer are working out of Reykjavík
+the rest of the team is working out of San
+Francisco.
+
+We have received $760.000 in seed funding,
+this investments is all from Icelandic
+sources.  We are in the progress of opening
+our 1st Round of financing and plan to raise
+$6.000.000 from sources here in the USA.
+
+The reason for why we choose San Francisco
+are: I worked here in 1996/1997 for a company
+now called <A HREF="http://www.smartvr.com/">http://www.smartvr.com/</A> and I
+made a lot of connections here then.  It is
+relatively easy to get high quality illustrators
+and CG people here.
+
+OL&gt; That would be nice. We'd have to find a working methodology though: we
+OL&gt; didn't expect other gaming companies to jump in so soon,  even though it 
+OL&gt; was inevitable in the long term.
+
+We would very much like to figure out the best way for
+us to work together.
+
+OL&gt; How many programmers is there in your dev team ?
+
+We currently have only 4 programmers but we are looking
+for 2 right now and will be looking for over 10 when
+we receive our 1st round of financing.
+
+We have a prototype written in Java3D that has
+been active since 1998.  We have a more recent prototype
+that helped us secure our seed funding written in C++
+that uses Crystal Space for the rendering part.
+
+Currently, Dmitry, our lead programmer is working on
+creating a prototype using NeL as the net platform and
+using the Nebula Device for 3D rendering.   Nebula has a
+bunch of advanced 3D stuff, you can check it out at
+<A HREF="http://www.radonlabs.de/">http://www.radonlabs.de/</A> or
+<A HREF="http://sourceforge.net/projects/nebuladevice/">http://sourceforge.net/projects/nebuladevice/</A>
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+<A HREF="mailto:robofly@in-orbit.net">robofly@in-orbit.net</A>
+
+President, InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+<A HREF="http://www.in-orbit.net">http://www.in-orbit.net</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000109.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000109.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..89f05c04
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000109.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:16:45 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000107.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Vianney,
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 3:15:48 AM, you wrote:
+VL&gt; Just a question, why do you want the client config file?
+VL&gt; The client automatically create the config file if the config file is not
+VL&gt; found.
+
+I just wanted it to see what initial configuration
+elements you were using.  I wanted this to gain
+better understanding of the NeL platform.  I had already
+taken a look at the link you sent me earlier and
+it does not reveal anything about the actual content
+of the config file.
+
+VL&gt; Anyway, you *can't* run the client because game data are not available for
+VL&gt; now.
+VL&gt; (you should wait few weeks ;-)
+
+Why did you decide to release NeL as an Open Source
+project on the Internet if there is no way to
+run it once compiled?
+
+We have a lot of game assets ready that we would
+love to test out in the NeL engine.  We use mostly
+Maya for our content but we have a couple of 3D Max
+licences as well.  Our content currently includes;
+textured characters with animations, buildings,
+props, height maps and landscape textures.
+
+Warm regard,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+<A HREF="mailto:robofly@in-orbit.net">robofly@in-orbit.net</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000110.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000110.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a9421ed9
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:22:56 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000105.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000106.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#110">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Cyril,
+
+Thanks for the info :)
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 2:33:31 AM, you wrote:
+CC&gt; At Nevrax, we use a set of crude plugins for 3dsmax builded with NeL, but we
+CC&gt; can't distribute them for the moment.
+
+Are those plugins going to be Open Source? If not, is there
+any change of buying them of you, even if they are in a
+crude stage?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000111.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000111.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..da38afe4
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000111.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL compilation</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000108.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000114.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL compilation</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL compilation">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:37:31 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000108.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000114.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#111">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Everybody,
+
+
+Yesterday we've integrated the AI code to NeL and it breaks the GNU/Linux
+compilation :-(
+
+We are working on it and it should be fix soon ...
+
+
+Sorry about that,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000112.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000112.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1acf72eb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000112.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000092.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000087.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:43:26 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000092.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#112">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#112">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Bernard,
+
+Nevrax wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> It is not often that I can build source code so easly on my alpha!
+</I>
+Nice to ear that :-)
+
+&gt;<i> You bug-fixes were really fast... (I mean FAST!)
+</I>
+My response wasn't that fast ... sorry :-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> For your information, on a Debian woody, one should 'apt-get install'
+</I>&gt;<i> the following packages (might go in a README or INSTALL):
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+I updated the NeL's INSTALL file as you suggest it ... thanks.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000113.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000113.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..77b19755
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000113.html
@@ -0,0 +1,116 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000109.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000108.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:22:42 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000109.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000108.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Robert,
+
+&gt;<i> I just wanted it to see what initial configuration
+</I>&gt;<i> elements you were using.  I wanted this to gain
+</I>&gt;<i> better understanding of the NeL platform.  I had already
+</I>&gt;<i> taken a look at the link you sent me earlier and
+</I>&gt;<i> it does not reveal anything about the actual content
+</I>&gt;<i> of the config file.
+</I>
+okay, next is the content of our current config file, hope it s what you
+wanted:
+---- start of client.cfg
+// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+
+FullScreen = 1;    // 1 = yes
+Width = 800;
+Height = 600;
+Depth = 32;
+Position = { 819.269836, -738.062500, 8.277040 };    // the last position on
+the world (just for prototype)
+Heading = { 0.882310, -0.470668, 0.0 };    // the last direction of the head
+Background = { 100, 100, 255 }; // color of the background (temporary, we
+wait the sky ;)
+DataPath = &quot;\\server\gamedata\data/;    // path of where the data are
+FontPath = &quot;\\server\code\fonts\arialuni.ttf;  // the font used in the
+client (will change)
+LanguageIndex = 1;
+LSHost = &quot;pc38&quot;; // our login service server
+Login = &quot;foo&quot;; // my login
+Password = &quot;bar&quot;;    // ... i know, it s not crypted :(
+ShardIP = &quot;192.168.1.38&quot;; // the last selected shard
+CharacterIndex = 0; // the player character (between 2 possibilities)
+---- end of client.cfg
+
+&gt;<i> Why did you decide to release NeL as an Open Source
+</I>&gt;<i> project on the Internet if there is no way to
+</I>&gt;<i> run it once compiled?
+</I>
+Don't forget that it's a quite young project
+and we need time to give some examples and stuff.
+We are currently working on a small sample world to give the community
+something to kick around and showcase what NeL can do.
+We'll release it next week so please be a little patient.
+Of course this example will have nothing to do with our final game.
+Its main use is to help us to test our library and test our team production
+pipelines.
+
+But, as you said below, you could use NeL with your own data: you don't
+*have* to wait for us to provide it !
+
+&gt;<i> We have a lot of game assets ready that we would
+</I>&gt;<i> love to test out in the NeL engine.  We use mostly
+</I>&gt;<i> Maya for our content but we have a couple of 3D Max
+</I>&gt;<i> licences as well.  Our content currently includes;
+</I>&gt;<i> textured characters with animations, buildings,
+</I>&gt;<i> props, height maps and landscape textures.
+</I>
+Great! The only potential problem could be for exporting datas.
+But it would be neat if you wrote an export pluggin for Maya,
+and we'd love to have another example of a program using NeL.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000114.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000114.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2b62bc78
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000114.html
@@ -0,0 +1,59 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] mesa3D</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:francois.perichon%40inzebox.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000111.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon%40inzebox.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:13:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000111.html">[Nel] NeL compilation</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000115.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+What version do i need?
+Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL files.
+
+-- 
+François &quot;Le Barjack&quot;  Périchon
+<A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon@inzebox.com">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:lebarjack@inzebox.com">lebarjack@inzebox.com</A>
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000115.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000115.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ca525cd6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000115.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] mesa3D</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000114.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000120.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000114.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000120.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#115">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Francois,
+
+François Périchon wrote:
+&gt;<i> It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+</I>&gt;<i> What version do i need?
+</I>
+We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+
+Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+
+&gt;<i> Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL files.
+</I>
+I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on tonigth
+on the public CVS.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000116.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000116.html
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index 00000000..1420f6eb
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+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>Bernard Hugueney</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nevrax%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:53:28 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>In-Reply-To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com">20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com</A>&gt;; from <A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A> on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 05:18:40PM +0100
+* Valignat Cedric &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt; [010111 19:18]:
+
+&gt;<i> Hello Francois,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> FranBmPis PBqSichon wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; What version do i need?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+</I>
+I must say that for once, Debian unstable is not up to date.
+I've been left behind recently, even with latest (today's!) xlibmesa-dev :-(
+Just when I bought those extra 128 Mo that 'd have allowed me to compile Nel
+AND move he mouse cursor :-(
+And lanch ddd on the servers because they segfaulted on startup here :-(
+
+I've no relevent version number as debian seem to sync them with XFree's:
+
+bubastis:~# dpkg -p xlibmesa-dev |fgrep Version
+Version: 4.0.2-1
+
+bubastis:~# dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h
+/usr/include/GL/glext.h
+but 
+bubastis:~# fgrep GL_GLEXT_VERSION `dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h`
+#define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+which does not plese Nel :-((
+
+Not your fault As I think one ought to be on the bleeding edge when developping
+or your behind when releasing...
+
+I hope to catch up soon...
+
+Bernard
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000117.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000117.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:01:36 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Bernard,
+
+Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I must say that for once, Debian unstable is not up to date.
+</I>&gt;<i> I've been left behind recently, even with latest (today's!) xlibmesa-dev :-(
+</I>
+Ouch !...
+
+&gt;<i> Just when I bought those extra 128 Mo that 'd have allowed me to compile Nel
+</I>&gt;<i> AND move he mouse cursor :-(
+</I>
+How much RAM did you have, before, to run X ? :-P
+
+&gt;<i> And lanch ddd on the servers because they segfaulted on startup here :-(
+</I>
+Did you get any error messages ?
+
+The servers are, actually, made in a way that they print an error message and
+create a core files if there is a problem, that's help us to debug them ...
+
+&gt;<i> I've no relevent version number as debian seem to sync them with XFree's:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> bubastis:~# dpkg -p xlibmesa-dev |fgrep Version
+</I>&gt;<i> Version: 4.0.2-1
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> bubastis:~# dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/include/GL/glext.h
+</I>&gt;<i> but 
+</I>&gt;<i> bubastis:~# fgrep GL_GLEXT_VERSION `dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h`
+</I>&gt;<i> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+</I>&gt;<i> which does not plese Nel :-((
+</I>
+The Mesa's rpm that we used is the 3.3-5 version and it use the version 7
+of GL/glext.h. We didn't test it with any other version of mesa yet, but you
+could try to download the lastest version of GL/glext.h at
+<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A> and recompile NeL.
+
+An other solution is to remove the GL_GLEXT_VERSION checking in the 
+configure.in file and in the src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.h
+file and try to recompile NeL ...
+
+I hope that could help you to fixed your problem ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</H1>
+    <B>Robert Bjarnason</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:49:54 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000117.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000119.html">[Nel] Maya plugin issues</A></li>
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+<PRE>Hi Vianney,
+
+VC&gt; okay, next is the content of our current config file, hope it s what you
+VC&gt; wanted:
+
+Thanks :)  I like the way you have the config files
+created automaticly, I just hadn't looked in the
+right place...
+
+VC&gt; Don't forget that it's a quite young project
+VC&gt; and we need time to give some examples and stuff.
+VC&gt; We are currently working on a small sample world to give the community
+VC&gt; something to kick around and showcase what NeL can do.
+VC&gt; We'll release it next week so please be a little patient.
+VC&gt; Of course this example will have nothing to do with our final game.
+VC&gt; Its main use is to help us to test our library and test our team production
+VC&gt; pipelines.
+
+I appolagice for my tone of voice before, I really
+appricate your effort and think your doing a great
+job.
+
+VC&gt; Great! The only potential problem could be for exporting datas.
+VC&gt; But it would be neat if you wrote an export pluggin for Maya,
+VC&gt; and we'd love to have another example of a program using NeL.
+
+We've already started to work on a plugin, written in MEL Script,
+using info gathered from the source code distribution.
+Do you have any formal documents on the different fileformats?
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000119.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000119.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Maya plugin issues</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Maya plugin issues">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:26:32 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000123.html">[Nel] opengl problem</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+I've been looking into writing a Maya plugin.
+What I understand so far is the following,
+please correct me if I'm wrong.
+
+-There are no specific fileformats for NeL,
+only different serialized objects like
+CZone, CShape(Stream), CMesh and others.
+
+-We would probably use the Maya API and
+write a C++ plugin for Maya instead of
+a MEL script.
+
+-I will have to convert the NURBS based
+Maya curves into 3DSMax based Bezier
+Pathces.
+
+This is really exciting. Now we can
+really integrate functions in Maya
+for bump-mapping and things like that.
+And this will be a plugin that creates
+ready to use NeL objects instead of
+some kind of an endless conversion
+madness :)
+
+If anybody has some code already written
+for either the Maya or NeL part of such
+a plugin, please let me know.  Our plugin
+will will be released under the GPL.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000120.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000120.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon%40inzebox.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:42:46 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I used the mesa 3.2 which comes with the unstable debian.
+On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 Valignat Cedric wrote:
+&gt;<i> Hello Francois,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> François Périchon wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; What version do i need?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+</I>&gt;<i> to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL
+</I>&gt;<i> files.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on
+</I>&gt;<i> tonigth
+</I>&gt;<i> on the public CVS.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Cedric.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+-- 
+François &quot;Le Barjack&quot;  Périchon
+<A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon@inzebox.com">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:lebarjack@inzebox.com">lebarjack@inzebox.com</A>
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000121.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000121.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>Debian User</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bernard%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">bernard@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:52:06 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+I reported my disappointment in a previous post when I saw that up to date
+ unstable Debian seemed not current enough for NeL.
+I decided to get the latest release from www.mesa3d.org.
+It was 3.4 but include/GL/glext.h seemed not current enough according to
+the test of GL_GLEXT_VERSION  :-(( (I have 6, requested is 7)
+So I decided to browse the CVS (<A HREF="http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/Mesa/include/GL/glext.h?rev=1.31&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=mesa3d">http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/Mesa/include/GL/glext.h?rev=1.31&amp;content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&amp;cvsroot=mesa3d</A> ) and here is what I found:
+
+Revision 1.31, Sat Jan 6 22:46:13 2001 UTC (10 days, 1 hour ago) by
+   gareth
+  Branch: MAIN
+  CVS Tags: HEAD
+  Changes since 1.30: +9 -4 lines
+Implementation of GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3.
+...
+  /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+#define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+ 
+???
+You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+
+Btw, I tried to fake a correct GL_GLEXT_VERSION but compile fails later
+:<i>-(((
+</I>
+I hope to be able to compile NeL again soon ...
+
+Bernard
+
+
+* Fran?ois P?richon &lt;<A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon@inzebox.com">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A>&gt; [010115 18:41]:
+&gt;<i> I used the mesa 3.2 which comes with the unstable debian.
+</I>&gt;<i> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 Valignat Cedric wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Hello Francois,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; François Périchon wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; What version do i need?
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; files.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; tonigth
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; on the public CVS.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Thanks,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Cedric.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> -- 
+</I>&gt;<i> François &quot;Le Barjack&quot;  Périchon
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon@inzebox.com">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:lebarjack@inzebox.com">lebarjack@inzebox.com</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 36, rue de la clef
+</I>&gt;<i> 59800 Lille
+</I>&gt;<i> France
+</I>&gt;<i> Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+</I>&gt;<i> Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000122.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000122.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..592137a2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000122.html
@@ -0,0 +1,77 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] mesa3D</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000121.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000147.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:01:06 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000121.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000147.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#122">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+&gt;<i>   /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+</I>&gt;<i> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ???
+</I>&gt;<i> You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Btw, I tried to fake a correct GL_GLEXT_VERSION but compile fails later
+</I>&gt;<i> :-(((
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I hope to be able to compile NeL again soon ...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Bernard
+</I>
+In fact, it's Mesa that is not synchronized with the official sgi
+extensions.
+You have to get the last glext.h from sgi:
+
+<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+
+and it will be ok (we ll add this to the INSTALL file)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000123.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000123.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..673a6618
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000123.html
@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] opengl problem</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:francois.perichon%40inzebox.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000119.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000124.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] opengl problem</H1>
+    <B>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon%40inzebox.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] opengl problem">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:46:53 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000119.html">[Nel] Maya plugin issues</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000124.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#123">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+I finally made it with the mesa3D 3.3, the last glext.h from sgi, the
+correct stlport, and so on.
+I './configure' without any problems (I set  the --with-stlport,
+--with-stllib, and th --with-python)
+When making the opengl driver i end with this error :
+
+In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used to
+declare any objects
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:274: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `SrcArg0RGB'
+
+and this one :
+
+In file included from ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:338,
+                 from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::texEnvOpRGB(unsigned int, NL3D::CMaterial::TTexOperator)':
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h:157: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::texEnvArg0RGB(unsigned int, NL3D::CMaterial::TTexSource,
+NL3D::CMaterial::TTexOperand)':
+
+
+What have i made wrong? Where this mysterious NL3D is defined?
+
+-- 
+François &quot;Le Barjack&quot;  Périchon
+<A HREF="mailto:francois.perichon@inzebox.com">francois.perichon@inzebox.com</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:lebarjack@inzebox.com">lebarjack@inzebox.com</A>
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000124.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000124.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c5d816ff
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000124.html
@@ -0,0 +1,87 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000123.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000125.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:49:11 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000123.html">[Nel] opengl problem</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000125.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#124">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#124">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#124">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>We are proud to announce the release of the 0.1 version of the NeL
+framework. This framework comprises the NeL library, and a basic client
+and server source for a simple game called Snowballs. The CVS should be 
+updated shortly, and the 0.1 release tagged. We are including the data
+files required for the game separately.
+
+If you are following the CVS regularly, you just have to update,
+download the data archive, compile and run. Otherwise, you may also
+download separately the source tree of the 0.1 release without using
+CVS.
+
+NB: The source archives are packages with CVS data, you may use unpack
+them and use then CVS to update.
+
+We do not provide a pre-built set of binaries, as the 0.1 release isn't
+really representative of the full technology we want to use. The server
+has been tested under Linux, and the client under Windows. If you want
+to use it, there is a demo server running here, on which the client
+connects by default.
+
+For any questions, we have opened a new mailing list dedicated to the
+Snowballs demo game, <A HREF="mailto:snowballs@nevrax.org">snowballs@nevrax.org</A> (see on the web site for
+a subscription page). Questions and reports about the client, server,
+or game data themselves should be directed there, while all discussions
+on the NeL library itself should remain under the <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+original mailing list.
+
+The archives may be downloaded there from the main page:
+	<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/">http://www.nevrax.org/</A>
+
+Note: The zip archive contains the source tree in DOS text format,
+whereas the tar.gz archives contains the source in Unix text format.
+Both should compile equally well, but one might be easier to edit on
+your system.
+
+See you on the snowfields :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000125.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000125.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..04d7b72a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000125.html
@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000124.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000128.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:17:13 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000124.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000128.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#125">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello to all !
+I just want to share some of my recent hints on building NeL for Win32
+platform with MC VC++ 6.0
+(Sorry  for  experienced  developers  familiar  with Win32 development
+environment,  may  be someone else like me usually do work primarily under
+UNIX and very seldom under Win32)
+
+*** STLPort ***
+First  problem  is  building  STLPort.
+(first big problem is the size - You  should  have  a  plenty  of  free space on
+hard drive. After building, STLPORT occupies 377946112 bytes)
+For some reasons or other nmake
+doesn't  work for me as expected (could be what Win32 also hate me as I
+hate Win32 ;)) It reports a lot of errors and exit.
+To  solve  this problem you can do File-&gt;Open STLport-4.0\src\vc6.mak and
+then do Build-&gt;build  stlport.exe
+Finally, after 30 minutes of hard work (PIII500/256), you'll have .lib &amp; .dll &amp; .pdb
+files   located   at  STLport-4.0\lib  Manually copy .lib (and I think
+.pdb  too)  to  VC default \lib location and don't forget to copy .dll
+files to some place where they could be found at runtime.
+
+*** FreeType 2 ***
+You need GNU Make 3.77 Link at FreeType site is broken
+Grab it from <A HREF="ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zip">ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zip</A>
+or any other place you want
+(<A HREF="http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&query=gnumake-win32.zip&doit=Search&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&hits=50&matches=&hitsprmatch=&limdom=&limpath=&hidepackages=on&hidedistfiles=on&hidefreebsd=on&hideopenbsd=on&hidenetbsd=on&hidelinux=on&f1=Count&f2=Mode&f3=Size&f4=Date&f5=Host&f6=Path&header=none&sort=none&trlen=20">http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&amp;query=gnumake-win32.zip&amp;doit=Search&amp;type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&amp;hits=50&amp;matches=&amp;hitsprmatch=&amp;limdom=&amp;limpath=&amp;hidepackages=on&amp;hidedistfiles=on&amp;hidefreebsd=on&amp;hideopenbsd=on&amp;hidenetbsd=on&amp;hidelinux=on&amp;f1=Count&amp;f2=Mode&amp;f3=Size&amp;f4=Date&amp;f5=Host&amp;f6=Path&amp;header=none&amp;sort=none&amp;trlen=20</A>)
+You   should  have both path to GNU make and path to VC++ binaries as well
+to be included into your PATH environment variable
+next do:
+make setup visualc
+make
+copy freetype-2.0\obj\freetype.lib to VC++ default \lib location
+and  also  copy  freetype-2.0\include\freetype directory itself  to VC \include
+directory (just to save some clicks and typing while building NeL)
+
+To be continued ...
+
+PS.  Many  thanks to Paul Oakenfold and his wonderful music which save
+me from going madness while working under MS Windows :))
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000126.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000126.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..65a648dc
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000126.html
@@ -0,0 +1,94 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000158.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000127.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:08:35 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000127.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#126">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#126">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#126">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#126">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>hello (sorry for my english)
+
+i've got problem to build the client under win32.
+i build all the nel components and stl-port and freetype.
+then i build the client and i've got some problem at the link.
+
+here is the error log of visual.
+
+ &gt; Linking...
+ &gt; MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;libcmt.lib&quot;
+ &gt; conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+ &gt; freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+ &gt; _psaux_module_class
+ &gt; Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+ &gt; Error executing link.exe.
+
+
+perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+
+i try to link with the debug and the release one renaming it to 
+freetype.lib cos the client link with freetype.lib
+but it don't work.
+i read different message in the mailing list and i understand the 
+freetype lib is build in obj directory but one my system it's build in lib.
+is it possible i've got a wrong version of freetype ?
+
+thank you for you're help.
+
+and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and 
+server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000127.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000127.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d96d1e77
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000127.html
@@ -0,0 +1,112 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000126.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</H1>
+    <B>Jerome Lanquetot</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32">jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:38:36 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000126.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>You have to add the psaux files in the freetype project (do it manually it
+works)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Nicolas Hognon&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:08 PM
+Subject: [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32
+
+
+&gt;<i> hello (sorry for my english)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> i've got problem to build the client under win32.
+</I>&gt;<i> i build all the nel components and stl-port and freetype.
+</I>&gt;<i> then i build the client and i've got some problem at the link.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> here is the error log of visual.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>  &gt; Linking...
+</I>&gt;<i>  &gt; MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib &quot;libcmt.lib&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i>  &gt; conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+</I>&gt;<i>  &gt; freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+</I>&gt;<i>  &gt; _psaux_module_class
+</I>&gt;<i>  &gt; Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+</I>&gt;<i>  &gt; Error executing link.exe.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+</I>&gt;<i> i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+</I>&gt;<i> and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> i try to link with the debug and the release one renaming it to
+</I>&gt;<i> freetype.lib cos the client link with freetype.lib
+</I>&gt;<i> but it don't work.
+</I>&gt;<i> i read different message in the mailing list and i understand the
+</I>&gt;<i> freetype lib is build in obj directory but one my system it's build in
+</I>lib.
+&gt;<i> is it possible i've got a wrong version of freetype ?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> thank you for you're help.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and
+</I>&gt;<i> server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+</I>&gt;<i> cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Nicolas Hognon
+</I>&gt;<i> home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A>         / www.cblt.org
+</I>&gt;<i> work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+</I>&gt;<i> #ICQ : 36044443
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Enjoy the silence
+</I>&gt;<i> (DM)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000128.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000128.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7b7a8a4e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000128.html
@@ -0,0 +1,101 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000125.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000130.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:41:37 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000125.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#128">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> *** STLPort ***
+</I>&gt;<i> First  problem  is  building  STLPort.
+</I>&gt;<i> (first big problem is the size - You  should  have  a  plenty  of  free
+</I>space on
+&gt;<i> hard drive. After building, STLPORT occupies 377946112 bytes)
+</I>&gt;<i> For some reasons or other nmake
+</I>&gt;<i> doesn't  work for me as expected (could be what Win32 also hate me as I
+</I>&gt;<i> hate Win32 ;)) It reports a lot of errors and exit.
+</I>&gt;<i> To  solve  this problem you can do File-&gt;Open STLport-4.0\src\vc6.mak and
+</I>&gt;<i> then do Build-&gt;build  stlport.exe
+</I>&gt;<i> Finally, after 30 minutes of hard work (PIII500/256), you'll have .lib &amp;
+</I>.dll &amp; .pdb
+&gt;<i> files   located   at  STLport-4.0\lib  Manually copy .lib (and I think
+</I>&gt;<i> .pdb  too)  to  VC default \lib location and don't forget to copy .dll
+</I>&gt;<i> files to some place where they could be found at runtime.
+</I>
+yes
+
+&gt;<i> *** FreeType 2 ***
+</I>&gt;<i> You need GNU Make 3.77 Link at FreeType site is broken
+</I>&gt;<i> Grab it from
+</I><A HREF="ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zi">ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zi</A>
+p
+&gt;<i> or any other place you want
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>(<A HREF="http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&query=gnumake-win32.z">http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&amp;query=gnumake-win32.z</A>
+ip&amp;doit=Search&amp;type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&amp;hits=50&amp;matc
+hes=&amp;hitsprmatch=&amp;limdom=&amp;limpath=&amp;hidepackages=on&amp;hidedistfiles=on&amp;hidefree
+bsd=on&amp;hideopenbsd=on&amp;hidenetbsd=on&amp;hidelinux=on&amp;f1=Count&amp;f2=Mode&amp;f3=Size&amp;f4
+=Date&amp;f5=Host&amp;f6=Path&amp;header=none&amp;sort=none&amp;trlen=20)
+&gt;<i> You   should  have both path to GNU make and path to VC++ binaries as well
+</I>&gt;<i> to be included into your PATH environment variable
+</I>&gt;<i> next do:
+</I>&gt;<i> make setup visualc
+</I>&gt;<i> make
+</I>&gt;<i> copy freetype-2.0\obj\freetype.lib to VC++ default \lib location
+</I>&gt;<i> and  also  copy  freetype-2.0\include\freetype directory itself  to VC
+</I>\include
+&gt;<i> directory (just to save some clicks and typing while building NeL)
+</I>
+yes too...
+
+In fact, I put in the INSTALL all things that you have to do to compile
+freetype, stlport and so on.
+But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax think
+that it s not our job
+to explain how to compile others external libraries.
+
+Thanks for all these informations and we hope that they helps everybody to
+compile more easily.
+
+
+Vianney
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000129.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000129.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7d995a39
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@@ -0,0 +1,72 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000127.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:48:39 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000127.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#129">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+</I>&gt;<i> i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+</I>&gt;<i> and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+</I>
+when we compile freetype2.0.1, it generated a freetype.lib in the
+freetype-2.0.1/obj directory.
+we never rename the library name or something like that.
+we don t have freetype200b8MT.lib or these strange lib filename.
+it seems with the name that it s freetype version 2.0.0 beta 8 and it s
+perhaps the reason.
+
+&gt;<i> and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and
+</I>&gt;<i> server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+</I>&gt;<i> cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+</I>
+no, we don t put the data on cvs because it s too slow to get them and
+binaries are
+not very well managed in cvs. if you want data for the snowballs game, you
+have to
+download the tarball or zip file from the www.nevrax.org web site.
+
+Vianney
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000130.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000130.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
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@@ -0,0 +1,59 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000128.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000132.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</H1>
+    <B>David Mentre</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>18 Jan 2001 10:59:01 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000128.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000132.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&quot;Vianney Lecroart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&gt; writes:
+
+&gt;<i> But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax
+</I>&gt;<i> think that it s not our job to explain how to compile others external
+</I>&gt;<i> libraries.
+</I>
+It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@inria.fr">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000131.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000131.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..87a16fdf
--- /dev/null
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@@ -0,0 +1,116 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Gl driver</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000129.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000133.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Gl driver</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Gl driver">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:01:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000129.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#131">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#131">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#131">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;from Snowballs mailing list&gt;
+
+Hi,
+
+&gt;<i> here is the error:
+</I>&gt;<i> ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: EBadDisplay: Missing Required GL =
+</I>extension:
+&gt;<i> GL_ARB_multitexture
+</I>
+
+The NeL's GlDriver works only if the GL_ARB_multitexture and =
+GL_EXT_tex_env_combine are present.
+If you don't have those extensions but your card can do multitexturing =
+(if you have GL_SGIS_multitexture=20
+for exemple), try to update your driver.
+
+Today, the client has been tested under Geforce and Geforce II.
+
+Regards
+
+Cyril Corvazier.   =20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;lt;from Snowballs mailing list&amp;gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Hi,&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;gt; here is the error:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception:=20
+EBadDisplay: Missing Required GL extension:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
+GL_ARB_multitexture&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;The NeL's GlDriver works only if the GL_ARB_multitexture and=20
+GL_EXT_tex_env_combine are present.&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;If you don't have those extensions but your card can do =
+multitexturing (if=20
+you have GL_SGIS_multitexture &lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;for exemple), try to update your driver.&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Today, the client has been tested under Geforce and Geforce =
+II.&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Regards&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Cyril Corvazier.&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+              <a href="thread.html#131">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#131">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000132.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000132.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0f5ba20f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000132.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000130.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000158.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:56:11 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#132">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#132">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#132">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#132">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> &gt; But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; think that it s not our job to explain how to compile others external
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; libraries.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+</I>&gt;<i> never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+</I>
+Exact, We know that but in fact, if we put a doc explains all things to do
+to
+install external lib, we ll have to follow each new external lib version,
+try them
+and correct eventually the file. It s the reason that we prefer to refer to
+the
+external lib documentation to install them.
+Anyway, we'll perhaps put a special section on our web site or/and with nel
+to
+explain more in deep how to get and compile external stuffs.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#132">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000133.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000133.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e6f8565e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000133.html
@@ -0,0 +1,106 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Server</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000131.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000134.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Server</H1>
+    <B>Jerome Lanquetot</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Server">jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:01:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#133">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#133">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#133">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#133">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, =
+naming and time.
+I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each service =
+and the order in which they start.
+
+Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+
+Regards
+
+J=E9r=F4me Lanquetot
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4134.600&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I have some problems launching the five =
+services:=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;log, &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2&gt;login,=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;moves, &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2&gt;naming and=20
+time.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I found nowhere some help about the=20
+functionnalities about each service and the order in which they=20
+start.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Could you help me to launch correctly =
+the=20
+services.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Regards&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;J=E9r=F4me Lanquetot&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#133">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#133">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#133">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000134.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000134.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..623fe440
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000134.html
@@ -0,0 +1,79 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Server</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000133.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000135.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Server</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Server">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:19:46 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#134">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#134">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#134">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#134">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, naming
+</I>and time.
+&gt;<i>I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each service and
+</I>the order in which they start.
+&gt;<i>Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+</I>
+first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:
+
+--------begin of ns.cfg-------
+Host=&quot;your nameservice ip&quot;;
+Port=50000;
+--------end of ns.cfg-------
+
+after, you launch, in order:
+- naming                   &lt;-- used to find a specific service by his name
+- log                         &lt;-- centralized log for all service
+- time                       &lt;-- centralized time reference
+- login                      &lt;-- centralized user account for all shard
+- moves                   &lt;-- a shard
+
+of course, some services will create some config file that you have to fill.
+you have to put in the ls.txt the moves service host ip like this:
+
+----
+Shards = {
+ &quot;your moves service host ip&quot;, &quot;the name of the shard appears on the client&quot;
+};
+----
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#134">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#134">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000135.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000135.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..47b547ae
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000135.html
@@ -0,0 +1,285 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Server</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000134.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000136.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Server</H1>
+    <B>Jerome Lanquetot</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Server">jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:50:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#135">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#135">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#135">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#135">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Thanks Vianney,
+
+I have now two bugs.
+
+- The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+- The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the =
+client i get the following exception:
+&quot;01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2&quot;
+
+I give you all my config files:
+
+ls.txt:
+
+Users =3D {
+};
+
+Shards =3D {
+ &quot;172.16.2.11&quot;, &quot;StartPosition&quot;
+};
+
+
+ns.cfg:
+
+Host=3D&quot;jlt&quot;;
+Port=3D50000;
+
+and client.cfg:
+// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+
+FullScreen =3D 0;
+Width =3D 800;
+Height =3D 600;
+Depth =3D 16;
+Position =3D { 1840.000000, -970.000000, -23.520323 };
+Heading =3D { -0.122154, 1.000000, 0.0 };
+Background =3D { 100, 100, 255 };
+DataPath =3D &quot;data/&quot;;
+FontName =3D &quot;n019003l.pfb&quot;;
+LanguageIndex =3D 0;
+LSHost =3D &quot;172.16.2.11&quot;;
+Login =3D &quot;jaylee&quot;;
+Password =3D &quot;a&quot;;
+ShardIP =3D &quot;172.16.2.11&quot;;
+CharacterIndex =3D 0;
+LandscapeTileNear =3D 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold =3D 0.001000;
+
+
+
+----- Original Message -----=20
+From: &quot;Vianney Lecroart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:19 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Server
+
+
+&gt;<i> &gt;I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, =
+</I>naming
+&gt;<i> and time.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each =
+</I>service and
+&gt;<i> the order in which they start.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i> first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i> --------begin of ns.cfg-------
+</I>&gt;<i> Host=3D&quot;your nameservice ip&quot;;
+</I>&gt;<i> Port=3D50000;
+</I>&gt;<i> --------end of ns.cfg-------
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i> after, you launch, in order:
+</I>&gt;<i> - naming                   &lt;-- used to find a specific service by his =
+</I>name
+&gt;<i> - log                         &lt;-- centralized log for all service
+</I>&gt;<i> - time                       &lt;-- centralized time reference
+</I>&gt;<i> - login                      &lt;-- centralized user account for all =
+</I>shard
+&gt;<i> - moves                   &lt;-- a shard
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i> of course, some services will create some config file that you have to =
+</I>fill.
+&gt;<i> you have to put in the ls.txt the moves service host ip like this:
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i> ----
+</I>&gt;<i> Shards =3D {
+</I>&gt;<i>  &quot;your moves service host ip&quot;, &quot;the name of the shard appears on the =
+</I>client&quot;
+&gt;<i> };
+</I>&gt;<i> ----
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>=20
+</I>
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4134.600&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Thanks Vianney,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I have now two bugs.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;- The first one is when i launch the =
+moves service,=20
+it closes itself.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;- The second one (linked to the first =
+one i guess)=20
+is when i launch the client i get the following exception:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&quot;01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: =
+Exception:=20
+toto2&quot;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I give you all my config =
+files:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;STRONG&gt;ls.txt:&lt;/STRONG&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Users =3D {&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;};&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Shards =3D {&lt;BR&gt;&amp;nbsp;&quot;172.16.2.11&quot;,=20
+&quot;StartPosition&quot;&lt;BR&gt;};&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;STRONG&gt;ns.cfg:&lt;/STRONG&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2&gt;Host=3D&quot;jlt&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;Port=3D50000;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;STRONG&gt;and =
+client.cfg:&lt;/STRONG&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;FullScreen =3D 0;&lt;BR&gt;Width =3D =
+800;&lt;BR&gt;Height =3D=20
+600;&lt;BR&gt;Depth =3D 16;&lt;BR&gt;Position =3D { 1840.000000, -970.000000, =
+-23.520323=20
+};&lt;BR&gt;Heading =3D { -0.122154, 1.000000, 0.0 };&lt;BR&gt;Background =3D { 100, =
+100, 255=20
+};&lt;BR&gt;DataPath =3D &quot;data/&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;FontName =3D =
+&quot;n019003l.pfb&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;LanguageIndex =3D=20
+0;&lt;BR&gt;LSHost =3D &quot;172.16.2.11&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;Login =3D &quot;jaylee&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;Password =3D =
+&quot;a&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;ShardIP=20
+=3D &quot;172.16.2.11&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;CharacterIndex =3D 0;&lt;BR&gt;LandscapeTileNear =3D=20
+50.000000;&lt;BR&gt;LandscapeThreshold =3D 0.001000;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/FONT&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;From: &quot;Vianney Lecroart&quot; &amp;lt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2&gt;<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;To: &amp;lt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2&gt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:19=20
+PM&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Subject: Re: [Nel] =
+Server&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt;I have some problems launching the five services: log, =
+login,=20
+moves, naming&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; and time.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt;I found nowhere some help =
+about the=20
+functionnalities about each service and&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; the order in which they=20
+start.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &amp;gt;Could you help me to launch correctly the =
+services.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
+&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
+&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
+--------begin of ns.cfg-------&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Host=3D&quot;your nameservice =
+ip&quot;;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
+Port=3D50000;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; --------end of ns.cfg-------&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
+after, you=20
+launch, in order:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; -=20
+naming&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;=
+nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
+&amp;lt;-- used to find a specific service by his name&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; -=20
+log&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbs=
+p;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp=
+;=20
+&amp;lt;-- centralized log for all service&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; -=20
+time&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nb=
+sp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
+&amp;lt;-- centralized time reference&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; -=20
+login&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;n=
+bsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
+&amp;lt;-- centralized user account for all shard&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; -=20
+moves&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;n=
+bsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;=20
+&amp;lt;-- a shard&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; of course, some services will create =
+some config=20
+file that you have to fill.&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; you have to put in the ls.txt the =
+moves=20
+service host ip like this:&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; ----&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Shards =3D =
+{&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
+&amp;nbsp;&quot;your moves service host ip&quot;, &quot;the name of the shard appears on =
+the=20
+client&quot;&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; };&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; ----&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Vianney =
+Lecroart&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;=20
+&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; =
+_______________________________________________&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; Nel=20
+mailing list&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;A href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2&gt;<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; =
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel"">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel&quot;</A>&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2&gt;<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</FONT">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel&lt;/FONT</A>&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;FO=
+NT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000136.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000136.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..44cc22ab
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000136.html
@@ -0,0 +1,69 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] Server</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000135.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000137.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] Server</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] Server">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:02:44 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#136">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#136">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Jerome,
+
+Thursday, January 18, 2001, 9:50:22 AM, you wrote:
+JL&gt; - The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+
+You might have to use the host name of your
+computer instead of the IP number in ls.txt.
+
+Maybe you should also use the host name instead
+of the IP number in the LSHost parameter in the
+client.cfg
+
+JL&gt; - The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the client i get the following exception:
+JL&gt; &quot;01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2&quot;
+
+This is probably because the client can't connect
+to the moves_service, that was not started...
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#136">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000137.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000137.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9ee0df93
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000137.html
@@ -0,0 +1,96 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] Server</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000136.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000139.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] Server</H1>
+    <B>Jerome Lanquetot</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jerome.lanquetot%40animaths.com"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] Server">jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:18:23 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#137">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#137">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+The problem remains the same, the moves service closes itself. I use the
+host name of my machine, and it doesn't work. I think the best is to send us
+your two config files (ls.txt and ns.cfg) used for your server.
+
+Is there a log file or window to see what is wrong?
+
+thanks
+
+Jerome
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;robofly&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:robofly@in-orbit.net">robofly@in-orbit.net</A>&gt;
+To: &quot;Jerome Lanquetot&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:02 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Server
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hi Jerome,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Thursday, January 18, 2001, 9:50:22 AM, you wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> JL&gt; - The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> You might have to use the host name of your
+</I>&gt;<i> computer instead of the IP number in ls.txt.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Maybe you should also use the host name instead
+</I>&gt;<i> of the IP number in the LSHost parameter in the
+</I>&gt;<i> client.cfg
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> JL&gt; - The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch
+</I>the client i get the following exception:
+&gt;<i> JL&gt; &quot;01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> This is probably because the client can't connect
+</I>&gt;<i> to the moves_service, that was not started...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Warm regards,
+</I>&gt;<i> Róbert
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#137">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000138.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000138.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..971b9b00
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000138.html
@@ -0,0 +1,75 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Server</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000139.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000140.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Server</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Server">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:21:48 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000140.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#138">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#138">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#138">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#138">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+please, could you stop to send your email in HTML format?
+it s not safe and not really cool to read them on text mail program. thank
+you.
+
+&gt;<i>I have now two bugs.
+</I>&gt;<i>- The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+</I>&gt;<i>- The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the
+</I>client i get the following exception:
+&gt;<i>&quot;01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2&quot;
+</I>
+ok, if your moves serive is not launch, you *cant* connect your client, so
+the second problem
+is because of that. if your moves service closes itself, it s surely because
+the login service
+didn't authorized him to be an official shard. official shard are in ls.txt
+file (Shard variable) and
+for a strange reason, the ip you put on it isn t the same that the one who
+sent by the moves service.
+
+all services log informations in a file called logs.log, you should take a
+look on it.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000139.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000139.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1eb94da3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000139.html
@@ -0,0 +1,73 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[4]: [Nel] Server</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000137.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000138.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[4]: [Nel] Server</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="Re[4]: [Nel] Server">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:19:05 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000138.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#139">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#139">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#139">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#139">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Jerome,
+
+Friday, January 19, 2001, 12:18:23 AM, you wrote:
+JL&gt; The problem remains the same, the moves service closes itself. I use the
+JL&gt; host name of my machine, and it doesn't work. I think the best is to send us
+JL&gt; your two config files (ls.txt and ns.cfg) used for your server.
+
+One hint: If you can, rename your computer
+to &quot;pctest&quot; and try running the servers.
+This is a default hostname in the NeL code.
+You should be able to override this with
+the ns.cfg file.
+
+Also I had some problems with DNS issues, the
+test computer I was using didn't have a
+legal host name that could be looked up,
+after I fixed that everything worked...
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;ns.cfg&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
+Host=&quot;pctest&quot;;
+Port=50000;
+&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>ns.cfg&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
+</I>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A></li>
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#139">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#139">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000140.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000140.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ac4c6988
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000140.html
@@ -0,0 +1,134 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling nel</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:poet007%40ifrance.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000138.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000157.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling nel</H1>
+    <B>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:poet007%40ifrance.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling nel">poet007@ifrance.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:43:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000138.html">[Nel] Server</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000157.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#140">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#140">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+I just downloaded all necessary packages (I think so) to run
+nel software but it seems that a file is missing.
+While compiling the 3d lib,
+a &quot;fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h': No
+such file or directory&quot;
+occurs.
+
+I'm trying to compile it using VC++ under win2000.
+I have downloaded STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having
+launched a &quot;find file&quot; command under windows, it seems that freetype.h isn't
+stored on my hard disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?
+
+Thanks in advance and may the force be with you :)
+
+Poet007.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;I just =
+downloaded=20
+all necessary packages (I think so) to run &lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;nel =
+software but it=20
+seems that a file is missing.&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;While =
+compiling the=20
+3d lib,&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;a =
+&quot;fatal error=20
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h': No such file or=20
+directory&quot;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;occurs.&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;I'm =
+trying to=20
+compile it using VC++ under win2000.&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;I have =
+downloaded=20
+STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN =
+class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;launched a &quot;find=20
+file&quot; command under windows, it seems that freetype.h =
+isn't&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;stored =
+on my hard=20
+disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;Thanks =
+in advance=20
+and may the force be with you :)&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;Poet007.&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60--
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+<A HREF="http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif">http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000141.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000141.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..6a073e62
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000141.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Sorry</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000157.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000142.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Sorry</H1>
+    <B>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:poet007%40ifrance.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Sorry">poet007@ifrance.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:08:02 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000157.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000142.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#141">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#141">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Sorry for having sent a MIME formated message :)
+I have just configured outlook to send pure text mails
+for later messages....
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+<A HREF="http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif">http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000142.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000142.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8b471225
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000142.html
@@ -0,0 +1,63 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Sorry again :)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:poet007%40ifrance.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000141.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000143.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Sorry again :)</H1>
+    <B>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:poet007%40ifrance.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Sorry again :)">poet007@ifrance.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:33:54 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000141.html">[Nel] Sorry</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000143.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#142">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I just posted a question before reading
+the documentation and other posted messages...
+I know now where to look for the freetype missing
+file :)
+But it just seems that the server is broken tonight...
+I will have a look at it tomorrow though...
+Sorry again guys !
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+<A HREF="http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif">http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000143.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000143.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7ed6e1fc
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000143.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Sorry again :)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000142.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000144.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Sorry again :)</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Sorry again :)">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:29:46 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000142.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000144.html">[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#143">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#143">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner:
+&gt;<i> But it just seems that the server is broken tonight...
+</I>&gt;<i> I will have a look at it tomorrow though...
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry again guys !
+</I>
+We had a powerdown during this week-end, and the server restarted, but
+for some odd reasons, you had about 80% or so packetloss on the network
+interface, and it was almost unreachable. We've fixed the missing files
+and restarted the server, which should be working &quot;more or less&quot; ok.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000144.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000144.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7e97d064
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000144.html
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000143.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000145.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:33:47 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000143.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000145.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#144">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#144">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I have just commited on CVS the last fix for linux compilation of
+NeL and Snowballs.
+It should compile and link with no problem.
+You can run the executable but you must have accelerated opengl driver.
+If you want to do some feedback, bug fixes etc.. don t hesitate!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000145.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000145.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7ec334f1
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000145.html
@@ -0,0 +1,96 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000144.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000146.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</H1>
+    <B>robofly</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robofly%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit">robofly@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:59:57 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000144.html">[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000146.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#145">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#145">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+I'm trying to compile tile_edit from the tools folder.  After
+uncompressing a jpeg source code library in the Pic subfolder
+I get the following compilation errors.  It the Pic/ stuff
+some kind of an standard image library, from somewhere?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+ps. Here is the output from my compiler:
+
+--------------------Configuration: tile_edit_exe - Win32 Release--------------------
+Compiling...
+jchuff.c
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(271) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(273) : error C2085: 'emit_bits' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(273) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(311) : warning C4013: 'emit_bits' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+jcphuff.c
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(235) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(237) : error C2085: 'emit_bits' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(237) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(276) : warning C4013: 'emit_bits' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(288) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(289) : error C2085: 'emit_symbol' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(289) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(333) : warning C4013: 'emit_symbol' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+Pic_BMP.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_BMP.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_JPG.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_JPG.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_Manage.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_Manage.c': No such file or directory
+PIC_System.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\PIC_System.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_TGA.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_TGA.c': No such file or directory
+Generating Code...
+Compiling...
+readpic.cpp
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\readpic.cpp': No such file or directory
+Generating Code...
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+tile_edit.exe - 15 error(s), 3 warning(s)
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000146.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000146.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..64617bc5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000146.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000145.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000148.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:14:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000145.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000148.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#146">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="subject.html#146">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#146">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+&gt;<i> I'm trying to compile tile_edit from the tools folder.  After
+</I>&gt;<i> uncompressing a jpeg source code library in the Pic subfolder
+</I>&gt;<i> I get the following compilation errors.
+</I>
+You are right, the PIC folder was missing on the CVS in tool/tile_edit/PIC.
+That's ok now.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000147.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000147.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..6d34bf94
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000147.html
@@ -0,0 +1,63 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] mesa3D</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000122.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] mesa3D</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] mesa3D">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:39:33 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000122.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000116.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Debian User wrote:
+&gt;<i> ...
+</I>&gt;<i>   /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+</I>&gt;<i> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> ???
+</I>&gt;<i> You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+</I>
+hehe, i checked the RedHat's rpm of Mesa and it include the last version
+glext.h (version 7) from SGI and not from Mesa (version 6) ... :-)
+
+I'm going to update the INSTALL file to put a note about it ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+PS: Sorry if it take a long time to answer your mail, i was in vavcation ...
+
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000148.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000148.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..caa97710
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000148.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Pb with glx version</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Pb with glx version</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zerodeux%40free.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb with glx version">zerodeux@free.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:48:51 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000146.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I'm having the same trouble as Bernard Hugueney had. I'm using Debian Sid
+(unstable), and the nel/ configure script complains about OpenGL version
+being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION &lt; 7). Debian packages the original XFree 4.0.2
+header files, XFree says 4.0.2 uses Mesa 3.4, and if you downloa Mesa 3.4 you'll
+see that GL_GLEXT_VERSION is set to 6.
+
+Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to 7,
+and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+
+I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for now,
+in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000149.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000149.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..04980da8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000149.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000154.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zerodeux%40free.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI">zerodeux@free.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:19:00 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000154.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous structures
+(see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard feature,
+and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by others.
+Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth. I
+guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+structure ...
+
+In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used to
+declare any objects
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+[...]
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000150.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000150.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..33859c6f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000150.html
@@ -0,0 +1,83 @@
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+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:27:21 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000149.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous
+</I>structures
+&gt;<i> (see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard
+</I>feature,
+&gt;<i> and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by
+</I>others.
+&gt;<i> Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth.
+</I>I
+&gt;<i> guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+</I>&gt;<i> I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+</I>&gt;<i> structure ...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+</I>&gt;<i>                  from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used
+</I>to
+&gt;<i> declare any objects
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+</I>&gt;<i> NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+</I>&gt;<i> NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+</I>
+Yes, we know that. In fact, it compiles with no warning with gcc 2.96.
+If you could give me a link to a document that say it s not ANSI, i ll be
+glad.
+
+Regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000151.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000151.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..54af555c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000151.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Pb with glx version</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000148.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Pb with glx version</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb with glx version">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:28:04 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000148.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vincent Caron wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to 7,
+</I>&gt;<i> and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+</I>&gt;<i> cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+</I>
+Nop, but you are quite close : RedHat 7.0 :-)
+
+&gt;<i> I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for now,
+</I>&gt;<i> in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+</I>
+The problem is that we are going, in a very short time, to use recent
+extensions present only in the version 7 of glext.h. So it migth be useless
+to change it now and change it agin soon ...
+
+Anyway, i'm going to put a note about the glext.h version and where to find it
+in nel's INSTALL file.
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000152.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000152.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..08b98514
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000152.html
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Pb with glx version</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Pb with glx version</H1>
+    <B>Lionel Berenguier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb with glx version">berenguier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:32:41 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000151.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I'm having the same trouble as Bernard Hugueney had. I'm using Debian Sid
+</I>&gt;<i> (unstable), and the nel/ configure script complains about OpenGL version
+</I>&gt;<i> being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION &lt; 7). Debian packages the original XFree
+</I>4.0.2
+&gt;<i> header files, XFree says 4.0.2 uses Mesa 3.4, and if you downloa Mesa 3.4
+</I>you'll
+&gt;<i> see that GL_GLEXT_VERSION is set to 6.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to
+</I>7,
+&gt;<i> and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+</I>&gt;<i> cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+</I>
+No.
+
+&quot;glext.h&quot; is NOT linked to any linux distribution/version. His purpose is to
+declare all the possible extensions of any graphic hardware. For that
+reason, SGI handles the &quot;official&quot; glext.h, which you can retrieve from:
+
+<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for
+</I>now,
+&gt;<i> in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+</I>
+For now, we do not really use the version 7 of the header, but this will
+come soon (for fututre new extensions such as NV20 ones), so the only thing
+you must do, is to get and replace the glext.h.
+
+
+&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000153.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000153.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..33c0838a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000153.html
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Pb with glx version</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Pb with glx version</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zerodeux%40free.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb with glx version">zerodeux@free.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:34:47 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000152.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Lionel Berenguier wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> For now, we do not really use the version 7 of the header, but this will
+</I>&gt;<i> come soon (for fututre new extensions such as NV20 ones), so the only thing
+</I>&gt;<i> you must do, is to get and replace the glext.h.
+</I>
+All right, I read SGI's recommendations. I'll suggest Debian to upgrade their
+glext.h then.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000154.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000154.html
new file mode 100644
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@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Pb with glx version</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Pb with glx version</H1>
+    <B>elijah wright</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb with glx version">elw@stderr.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:57:23 -0500 (EST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000153.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000149.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> &gt; being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION &lt; 7). Debian packages the original XFree
+</I>&gt;<i> 4.0.2
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;glext.h&quot; is NOT linked to any linux distribution/version. His purpose is to
+</I>&gt;<i> declare all the possible extensions of any graphic hardware. For that
+</I>&gt;<i> reason, SGI handles the &quot;official&quot; glext.h, which you can retrieve from:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</A>
+</I>
+if in fact this is true (i'll take your word for it) someone should
+probably make a .deb that downloads and installs the newer glext.h.  it'll
+take some trickery to get the overrrides and alternatives right, but
+nothing that can't be done.  it'll have to cooperate with mesa and xfree
+maintainers, too- even less fun.  maybe xfree and mesa developers will
+upgrade their version of the file soon?
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000155.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000155.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e9e24f9a
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000155.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</H1>
+    <B>Lionel Berenguier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI">berenguier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:02:36 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000156.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000159.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous
+</I>structures
+&gt;<i> (see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard
+</I>feature,
+&gt;<i> and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by
+</I>others.
+&gt;<i> Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth.
+</I>I
+&gt;<i> guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+</I>&gt;<i> I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+</I>&gt;<i> structure ...
+</I>
+You're right.  Fixed... :o)
+
+regards
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000156.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000156.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..61be79dd
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000156.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zerodeux%40free.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000150.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000155.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zerodeux%40free.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI">zerodeux@free.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:08:50 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000150.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Yes, we know that. In fact, it compiles with no warning with gcc 2.96.
+</I>&gt;<i> If you could give me a link to a document that say it s not ANSI, i ll be
+</I>&gt;<i> glad.
+</I>
+I only happend to find a two years old mail from a mingw32 developer :
+  <A HREF="http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/1998-11/msg00729.html">http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/1998-11/msg00729.html</A>
+
+I guess the correct answer would be to read carefully the C++ ANSI draft,
+but it's boooorring :)
+  <A HREF="http://www.cygnus.com/misc/wp/dec96pub/">http://www.cygnus.com/misc/wp/dec96pub/</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000157.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000157.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..55814ca0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000157.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling nel</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000140.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling nel</H1>
+    <B>david.belius@chello.se</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling nel">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:13:38 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000140.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000141.html">[Nel] Sorry</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#157">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#157">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Freetype is a library. www.freetype.org.
+
+Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> I just downloaded all necessary packages (I think so) to run
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> nel software but it seems that a file is missing.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> While compiling the 3d lib,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> a &quot;fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h':
+</I>&gt;<i> No such file or directory&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> occurs.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm trying to compile it using VC++ under win2000.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I have downloaded STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> launched a &quot;find file&quot; command under windows, it seems that freetype.h isn't
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> stored on my hard disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks in advance and may the force be with you :)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Poet007.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000158.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000158.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ac886fab
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000158.html
@@ -0,0 +1,77 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000132.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000126.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:26:13 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000132.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000126.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#158">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#158">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi David,
+
+David Mentre wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+</I>&gt;<i> never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+</I>
+I'm one of the guys who was at the origin of that decision.
+
+It's not a problem about our job or not, it's more about the fact
+that you will never get from us a better support on these libraries
+installation that you could get from the guys who are working
+on them ... even if i know that it is pretty troublesome to look
+for informations on several place about several libraries just to
+install NeL :-)
+
+And if their installation instructions aren't up to date or incomplete,
+that's will be nice to contact them to fix that. I'm sure that a lot a
+people (mainly user as you are, but not necessarily NeL users :-) will
+appreciate the help ... as we will ;-)
+
+Anyway, we are going to write a small document explaining the basic
+installation instructions for these libraries, but you should not
+rely on that document to resolve all your installation problems.
+
+In case of troubles, you should look carefully at the README,
+the INSTALL files, and on the the files placed in the directory named
+doc(s) in the librarie file source tree, and do not forget there web
+sites, mailling lists, etc ... ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000159.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000159.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..bf0ffbbc
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000159.html
@@ -0,0 +1,69 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling NeL</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:poet007%40ifrance.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000155.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000160.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL</H1>
+    <B>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:poet007%40ifrance.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL">poet007@ifrance.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:34:14 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000155.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000160.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#159">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#159">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>Message: 9
+</I>&gt;<i>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:13:38 +0100
+</I>&gt;<i>From: <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling nel
+</I>&gt;<i>Reply-To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>
+&gt;<i>Freetype is a library. www.freetype.org.
+</I>
+It seems that the adress above is not valid
+anymore. But the freetype lib is still available
+at the adress below :
+
+<A HREF="http://freetype.sourceforge.net/">http://freetype.sourceforge.net/</A>
+
+Poet007
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+<A HREF="http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif">http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000160.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000160.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..482f54a8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000160.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling NeL</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000159.html">
+   
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:41:07 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000159.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#160">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#160">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#160">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> It seems that the adress above is not valid
+</I>&gt;<i> anymore.
+</I>
+Thei server is still running, it's just that there web server is down :-(
+
+It migth be fix soon ... i hope :-)
+
+&gt;<i> But the freetype lib is still available at the adress below :
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://freetype.sourceforge.net/">http://freetype.sourceforge.net/</A>
+</I>
+Do not forget to not choose the European mirror but the USA one ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/author.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-January Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-January Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  3 10:56:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 74<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000114.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="114"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000120.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="120"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000123.html">[Nel] opengl problem</A> <A NAME="123"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="88"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000101.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="101"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000102.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="102"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000124.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="124"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000143.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="143"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000152.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="152"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000155.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="155"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="118"></A><I>Robert Bjarnason</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000148.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="148"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000149.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="149"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000153.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="153"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000156.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="156"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000111.html">[Nel] NeL compilation</A> <A NAME="111"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="112"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000115.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="115"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000117.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="117"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000147.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="147"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000151.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="151"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="158"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000160.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="160"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000100.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="100"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000105.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="105"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A> <A NAME="131"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000146.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="146"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000126.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="126"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000093.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="93"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000097.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="97"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000116.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="116"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000127.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="127"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="133"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="135"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="137"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000092.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="92"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000106.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="106"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000107.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="107"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000113.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="113"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000122.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="122"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000128.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="128"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000129.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="129"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000132.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="132"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="134"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000138.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="138"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000144.html">[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</A> <A NAME="144"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000150.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="150"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000091.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="91"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000094.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="94"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000095.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="95"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000096.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="96"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000098.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="98"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="130"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000089.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="89"></A><I>Nevrax</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000140.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="140"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000141.html">[Nel] Sorry</A> <A NAME="141"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000142.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="142"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000159.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="159"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000090.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="90"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000125.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="125"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000121.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="121"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000099.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="99"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000103.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</A> <A NAME="103"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="87"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000157.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="157"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000104.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="104"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000108.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="108"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000109.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="109"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="110"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000119.html">[Nel] Maya plugin issues</A> <A NAME="119"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="136"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="139"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000145.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="145"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000154.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="154"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..aa2ba937
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,119 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-January Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-January Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  3 10:56:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 74<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="88"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000089.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="89"></A><I>Nevrax</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="87"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000090.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="90"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000091.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="91"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000092.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="92"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000093.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="93"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000094.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="94"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000095.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="95"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000096.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="96"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000097.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="97"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000098.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="98"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000099.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="99"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000100.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="100"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000101.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="101"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000102.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="102"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000103.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</A> <A NAME="103"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000104.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="104"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000105.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="105"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000106.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="106"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000107.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="107"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000108.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="108"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000109.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="109"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="110"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000111.html">[Nel] NeL compilation</A> <A NAME="111"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="112"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000113.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="113"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000114.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="114"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000115.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="115"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000116.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="116"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000117.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="117"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="118"></A><I>Robert Bjarnason</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000119.html">[Nel] Maya plugin issues</A> <A NAME="119"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000120.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="120"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000121.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="121"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000122.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="122"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000123.html">[Nel] opengl problem</A> <A NAME="123"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000124.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="124"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000125.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="125"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000126.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="126"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000127.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="127"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000128.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="128"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000129.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="129"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="130"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A> <A NAME="131"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000132.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="132"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="133"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="134"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="135"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="136"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="137"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000138.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="138"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="139"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000140.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="140"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000141.html">[Nel] Sorry</A> <A NAME="141"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000142.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="142"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000143.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="143"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000144.html">[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</A> <A NAME="144"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000145.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="145"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000146.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="146"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000147.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="147"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000148.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="148"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000149.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="149"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000150.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="150"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000151.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="151"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000152.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="152"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000153.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="153"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000154.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="154"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000155.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="155"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000156.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="156"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000157.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="157"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="158"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000159.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="159"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000160.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="160"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f27ccf33
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,253 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-January Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-January Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  3 10:56:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 74<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00978549244- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000089.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="999"></A><I>Nevrax</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978549244-00978597532- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000090.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1000"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--1 00978549244-00978598494- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000091.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1001"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000093.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1003"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000094.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1004"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000095.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="1005"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978615310- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000096.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="1006"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000097.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1007"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248-00978628531- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000098.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1008"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248-00978683993- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000101.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1011"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248-00978683993-00978685226- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000102.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1012"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00978549244-00978600353- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000092.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1002"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00978549244-00979055006- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1022"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978556242- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="997"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978556242-00978515779- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="998"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978661384- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000099.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="1009"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978661384-00978681199- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000100.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="1010"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978661384-00978681199-00978739450- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000103.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</A> <A NAME="1013"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978741304- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000104.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1014"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978741304-00978946411- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000105.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1015"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978741304-00978946411-00978978176- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1020"></A><I>robofly</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00978741304-00978947312- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000106.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1016"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00978741304-00978948948- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000107.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1017"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978741304-00978948948-00978977805- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000109.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1019"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00978741304-00978948948-00978977805-00979057362- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000113.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1023"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978977029- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000108.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1018"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--0 00979054651- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000111.html">[Nel] NeL compilation</A> <A NAME="1021"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--0 00979222405- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000114.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1024"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979222405-00979226320- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000115.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1025"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000120.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1030"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366-00979689126- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000121.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1031"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<!--3 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366-00979689126-00979718466- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000122.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1032"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366-00979689126-00980242773- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000147.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1057"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979235608- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000116.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1026"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979235608-00979293696- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000117.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1027"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979235608-00979293696-00979444194- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1028"></A><I>Robert Bjarnason</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979529192- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000119.html">[Nel] Maya plugin issues</A> <A NAME="1029"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--0 00979728413- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000123.html">[Nel] opengl problem</A> <A NAME="1033"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<!--0 00979750151- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000124.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1034"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979750151-00979762633- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000125.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1035"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000128.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1038"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297-00979808341- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1040"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<!--3 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297-00979808341-00979833371- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000132.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1042"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297-00979808341-00980267173- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1068"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979765715- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000126.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="1036"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979765715-00979807116- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000127.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="1037"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<!--1 00979765715-00979807719- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000129.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="1039"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979822885- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A> <A NAME="1041"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979822885-00979833682- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1043"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1044"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1045"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979840964- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1046"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979840964-00979888703- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1047"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979840964-00979888703-00979949945- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1049"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979914108- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000138.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1048"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980099034- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000140.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="1050"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980099034-00980262818- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000157.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="1067"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980100482- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000141.html">[Nel] Sorry</A> <A NAME="1051"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<!--0 00980109234- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000142.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="1052"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980109234-00980155786- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000143.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="1053"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980181227- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000144.html">[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</A> <A NAME="1054"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--0 00980182797- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000145.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="1055"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980182797-00980237665- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000146.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="1056"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980243331- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000148.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1058"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980243331-00980252884- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000151.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1061"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--1 00980243331-00980253161- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000152.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1062"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00980243331-00980253161-00980256887- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000153.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1063"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--2 00980243331-00980253161-00980258243- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000154.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1064"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980252340- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000149.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1059"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980252340-00980252841- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000150.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1060"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00980252340-00980252841-00980258930- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000156.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1066"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00980252340-00980258556- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000155.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1065"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980372054- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000159.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="1069"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980372054-00980412067- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000160.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="1070"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/subject.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
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@@ -0,0 +1,119 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-January Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-January Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  3 10:56:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 74<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000124.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="124"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000125.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="125"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000128.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="128"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="130"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000132.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="132"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="158"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000095.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="95"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000096.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="96"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000099.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="99"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000100.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="100"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000103.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</A> <A NAME="103"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="88"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="87"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000140.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="140"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000157.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="157"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000159.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="159"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000160.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="160"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000104.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="104"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000105.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="105"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000106.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="106"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000107.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="107"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000149.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="149"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000150.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="150"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000155.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="155"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000156.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="156"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A> <A NAME="131"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000119.html">[Nel] Maya plugin issues</A> <A NAME="119"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000114.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="114"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000115.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="115"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000116.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="116"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000117.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="117"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000120.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="120"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000121.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="121"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000122.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="122"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000147.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="147"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000111.html">[Nel] NeL compilation</A> <A NAME="111"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000144.html">[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</A> <A NAME="144"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000123.html">[Nel] opengl problem</A> <A NAME="123"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000148.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="148"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000151.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="151"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000152.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="152"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000153.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="153"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000154.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="154"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000145.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="145"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000146.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="146"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000097.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="97"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000098.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="98"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000101.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="101"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000102.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="102"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="133"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="134"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="135"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000138.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="138"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000089.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="89"></A><I>Nevrax</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000090.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="90"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000091.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="91"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000092.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="92"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000093.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="93"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000094.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="94"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="112"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000126.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="126"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000127.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="127"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000129.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="129"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000141.html">[Nel] Sorry</A> <A NAME="141"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000142.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="142"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000143.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="143"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000108.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="108"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000109.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="109"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="110"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000113.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="113"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="118"></A><I>Robert Bjarnason</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="136"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="137"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="139"></A><I>robofly</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/thread.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,253 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-January Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-January Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  3 10:56:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 74<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00978549244- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000089.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="999"></A><I>Nevrax</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978549244-00978597532- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000090.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1000"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--1 00978549244-00978598494- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000091.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1001"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000093.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1003"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000094.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1004"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000095.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="1005"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978615310- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000096.html">[Nel] Boost.org</A> <A NAME="1006"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000097.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1007"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248-00978628531- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000098.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1008"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248-00978683993- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000101.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1011"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00978549244-00978598494-00978601342-00978602307-00978603642-00978627248-00978683993-00978685226- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000102.html">[Nel] re: Boost library</A> <A NAME="1012"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00978549244-00978600353- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000092.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1002"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00978549244-00979055006- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000112.html">[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)</A> <A NAME="1022"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978556242- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000087.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="997"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978556242-00978515779- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000088.html">[Nel] Compiling in VC++</A> <A NAME="998"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978661384- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000099.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="1009"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978661384-00978681199- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000100.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux</A> <A NAME="1010"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978661384-00978681199-00978739450- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000103.html">[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)</A> <A NAME="1013"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978741304- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000104.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1014"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00978741304-00978946411- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000105.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1015"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978741304-00978946411-00978978176- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1020"></A><I>robofly</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00978741304-00978947312- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000106.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1016"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00978741304-00978948948- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000107.html">[Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1017"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00978741304-00978948948-00978977805- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000109.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1019"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00978741304-00978948948-00978977805-00979057362- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000113.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1023"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00978977029- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000108.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1018"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--0 00979054651- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000111.html">[Nel] NeL compilation</A> <A NAME="1021"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--0 00979222405- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000114.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1024"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979222405-00979226320- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000115.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1025"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000120.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1030"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366-00979689126- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000121.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1031"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<!--3 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366-00979689126-00979718466- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000122.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1032"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00979222405-00979226320-00979555366-00979689126-00980242773- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000147.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1057"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979235608- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000116.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1026"></A><I>Bernard Hugueney</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979235608-00979293696- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000117.html">[Nel] mesa3D</A> <A NAME="1027"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979235608-00979293696-00979444194- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff</A> <A NAME="1028"></A><I>Robert Bjarnason</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979529192- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000119.html">[Nel] Maya plugin issues</A> <A NAME="1029"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--0 00979728413- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000123.html">[Nel] opengl problem</A> <A NAME="1033"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?=</I>
+<!--0 00979750151- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000124.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1034"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979750151-00979762633- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000125.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1035"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000128.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1038"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297-00979808341- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000130.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1040"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<!--3 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297-00979808341-00979833371- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000132.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1042"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00979750151-00979762633-00979807297-00979808341-00980267173- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000158.html">[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out</A> <A NAME="1068"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979765715- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000126.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="1036"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979765715-00979807116- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000127.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="1037"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<!--1 00979765715-00979807719- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000129.html">[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32</A> <A NAME="1039"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979822885- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000131.html">[Nel] Gl driver</A> <A NAME="1041"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979822885-00979833682- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000133.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1043"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000134.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1044"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000135.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1045"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979840964- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000136.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1046"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979840964-00979888703- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000137.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1047"></A><I>Jerome Lanquetot</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979840964-00979888703-00979949945- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000139.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1049"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<!--3 00979822885-00979833682-00979834786-00979836622-00979914108- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000138.html">[Nel] Server</A> <A NAME="1048"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980099034- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000140.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="1050"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980099034-00980262818- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000157.html">[Nel] Compiling nel</A> <A NAME="1067"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980100482- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000141.html">[Nel] Sorry</A> <A NAME="1051"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<!--0 00980109234- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000142.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="1052"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980109234-00980155786- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000143.html">[Nel] Sorry again :)</A> <A NAME="1053"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980181227- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000144.html">[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux</A> <A NAME="1054"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--0 00980182797- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000145.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="1055"></A><I>robofly</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980182797-00980237665- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000146.html">[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit</A> <A NAME="1056"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980243331- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000148.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1058"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980243331-00980252884- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000151.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1061"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--1 00980243331-00980253161- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000152.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1062"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00980243331-00980253161-00980256887- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000153.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1063"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--2 00980243331-00980253161-00980258243- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000154.html">[Nel] Pb with glx version</A> <A NAME="1064"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980252340- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000149.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1059"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980252340-00980252841- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000150.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1060"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00980252340-00980252841-00980258930- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000156.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1066"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00980252340-00980258556- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000155.html">[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI</A> <A NAME="1065"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980372054- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000159.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL</A> <A NAME="1069"></A><I>Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00980372054-00980412067- -->
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+       <i>Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001</i><br>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:10:44 -0700</I>
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+<PRE>6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, <A HREF="mailto:x5101920@fedro.ugr.es">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A> wrote:
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock &lt;<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>&gt;:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service,
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> language in 
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> we release the server side code?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+</I>&gt;<i>hard working on such a good project.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source.
+
+&gt;<i>IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+</I>&gt;<i>and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>if it works out to seperate our rules in an external data format- because that really is what heaps and heaps of content specific rules are, then we might well release our server code (and we will of course release any changes we make to the basic services), but though ianal, I'm quite sure on the point of not being required to release internal software that makes 
+use of gpl'ed code and I really don't believe that even mr stallman would object given the situation- its quite a step for a game company to share source at all and it has been no small hinderance in our search for funding, nevertheless we've stuck by the gpl.
+
+michael warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:23:32 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one 
+</I>&gt;<i> of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century .
+</I>
+Well, there is stupid people that laugh at important things. 
+Idiots things everything is a joke. :-/
+ 
+&gt;<i> Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is
+</I>&gt;<i> concerned, 
+</I>&gt;<i> and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software
+</I>&gt;<i> is 
+</I>&gt;<i> the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the
+</I>&gt;<i> ever 
+</I>&gt;<i> coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+</I>&gt;<i> those which don't provide source code .
+</I>
+You didn't understand it...
+GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, 
+modify and resuse it under the GPL License.
+
+&gt;<i> That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for
+</I>&gt;<i> individuals :
+</I>&gt;<i> releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get
+</I>&gt;<i> insights 
+</I>&gt;<i> about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source
+</I>&gt;<i> providers .
+</I>
+No, because all the code is under the GPL.
+If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you 
+want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not.
+ 
+&gt;<i> Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to
+</I>&gt;<i> understand
+</I>&gt;<i> the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+</I>&gt;<i> So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor
+</I>&gt;<i> entities
+</I>&gt;<i> - as far as software production is concerned - 
+</I>&gt;<i> I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global
+</I>&gt;<i> leverage tendance .
+</I>
+You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+project as mine is without GPL.
+
+GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+ 
+&gt;<i> Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable
+</I>&gt;<i> company 
+</I>&gt;<i> protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note
+</I>&gt;<i> that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+</I>&gt;<i> Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism
+</I>&gt;<i> died 
+</I>&gt;<i> out of realism ?
+</I>
+GPL is not about companies, but about users.
+GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work.
+
+I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+1) It make faster the development.
+2) The user base is also developers base
+3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+
+Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+
+ 
+&gt;<i> Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+</I>&gt;<i> methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever
+</I>&gt;<i> thought 
+</I>&gt;<i> that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable
+</I>&gt;<i> way of 
+</I>&gt;<i> thinking and only fools rush in .
+</I>
+Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+If you say... &quot;Mine is the best wine of the world&quot;, just tell me how you did, 
+and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better.
+And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to 
+create an even better one. 
+That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand.
+
+&gt;<i> I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the
+</I>&gt;<i> GPL concept ,
+</I>&gt;<i> (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) ,
+</I>&gt;<i> but
+</I>&gt;<i> since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL
+</I>&gt;<i> detractors .
+</I>&gt;<i> Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+</I>
+Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more 
+secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to 
+forbid people to copy and share apps.
+ 
+&gt;<i> I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+</I>&gt;<i> but I don't think it will happen .
+</I>
+GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions.
+ 
+&gt;<i> Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't
+</I>&gt;<i> be there if not)
+</I>
+You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+ethics.
+
+REgards,
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+    <B>Debian User</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:bernard%40bernard-hugueney.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">bernard@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:32:23 +0200</I>
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+<PRE>* Michael Warnock &lt;<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>&gt; [010701 09:48]:
+&gt;<i> 6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, <A HREF="mailto:x5101920@fedro.ugr.es">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A> wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock &lt;<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>&gt;:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>
+&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;&gt; we release the server side code?
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;hard working on such a good project.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>
+
+My understanding of the GPL is that your do not have to give source code
+if you do not &quot;give&quot; binary. This is a concern to Mr Stallman because
+of the comming Application Services Providers (or that kind of Three Letters
+ Acronym). This should be fixed with the upcoming v 3 of the GPL.
+
+Neither Am I A L., but for the rules parts, my 2 euros :
+the reverse engineering part is not that relevent because you could
+apply to any computer prog. I know that people fitted archmage models in
+matlab, but with LARGE rule sets, I don't think it's realistic.
+I think it could be possible to use propritery code with GPL code 
+using a LGLP 'hook' layer. But I'm not sure...
+
+To be on thesafe side, GPL and non-GPL code should not be in the same 
+adress-space (ie CORBA).You have to pay an efficiency penalty to keep your code
+non-GPL and that's the intended behaviour IMHO.
+
+For thoses who think GPL is worthless (&quot;a joke&quot;) because you can steal / use
+the code anyway, I think you are missing the point. What matter is not the
+software (state of CVS at time t), but the ongoing project. That's why
+there are VERY few forks on GPL land. Use the code and it's ok, the project
+is working for you. Take the code, change it, and then YOU have to handle
+all the evolution, or keep track of changes (what if they are not compatible
+with yours ?). You can certainly catch-up very easly with a GPL project, and
+it's R&amp;D is available for everyone to use (great karma IMHO), but the
+power of the successful GPL project is not in the code, but in the community
+behind it. (Of course, both are linked, hard to attract people with ugly code)
+
+I really hope that NeL will build such a dedicated and helpful community.
+(Code quality is there IMHO, for network design etc, I'not qualified...)
+
+Bernard
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>elijah wright</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">elw@stderr.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:57:10 -0400 (EDT)</I>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+could the GPL bigots and zealots please find something else to do with
+their time?  you're wasting a lot of energy on something that is
+well-understood and needs very little additional explanation.
+
+elijah
+
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; concerned, 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; is 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; ever 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; those which don't provide source code .
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You didn't understand it...
+</I>&gt;<i> GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, 
+</I>&gt;<i> modify and resuse it under the GPL License.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; individuals :
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; insights 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; providers .
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> No, because all the code is under the GPL.
+</I>&gt;<i> If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you 
+</I>&gt;<i> want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not.
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; understand
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; entities
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; - as far as software production is concerned - 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; leverage tendance .
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+</I>&gt;<i> great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+</I>&gt;<i> project as mine is without GPL.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+</I>&gt;<i> get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; company 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; died 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; out of realism ?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> GPL is not about companies, but about users.
+</I>&gt;<i> GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+</I>&gt;<i> 1) It make faster the development.
+</I>&gt;<i> 2) The user base is also developers base
+</I>&gt;<i> 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+</I>&gt;<i> 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+</I>&gt;<i> 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; thought 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; way of 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; thinking and only fools rush in .
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+</I>&gt;<i> If you say... &quot;Mine is the best wine of the world&quot;, just tell me how you did, 
+</I>&gt;<i> and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better.
+</I>&gt;<i> And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to 
+</I>&gt;<i> create an even better one. 
+</I>&gt;<i> That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; GPL concept ,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) ,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; but
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; detractors .
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more 
+</I>&gt;<i> secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to 
+</I>&gt;<i> forbid people to copy and share apps.
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; but I don't think it will happen .
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions.
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; be there if not)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+</I>&gt;<i> ethics.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> REgards,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i>                   Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+</I>&gt;<i> Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i>                     -- Echelon must die --
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+-- 
+
+
+--
+$ chown us:us yourbase -R
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>stephane.craux@voila.fr</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun,  1 Jul 2001 21:01:45 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> &gt; You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; project as mine is without GPL.
+</I>Ah , so u are the grat man , it will be a primer !
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+</I>agreed
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 1) It make faster the development.
+</I>did u get it right ?????
+&gt;<i> &gt; 2) The user base is also developers base
+</I>sure ?
+&gt;<i> &gt; 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+</I>proved ?
+&gt;<i> &gt; 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+</I>yes , but is it that much important ?
+&gt;<i> &gt; 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+</I>mmm
+&gt;<i> &gt; Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+</I>what kind of mix are trying to involve here ?
+&gt;<i> &gt; Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+</I>you are in real rouble with ur mind , but I'm quiet confident 
+u may still evolve , i hope that , be sure of it :)
+&gt;<i> &gt; You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; ethics.
+</I>I learned I school that u have always more to learn , did u miss that point ?
+no time loosed , quiet easy answers , regards for comin' into it
+
+Stephane
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+<A HREF="http://mail.voila.fr">http://mail.voila.fr</A>
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu">
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+   <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>Yann Morvan</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:08:10 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Man man, what have I started ? :)
+I suggest we stop bugging the other
+members of this mailing list with ideological
+discussions that should take place elsewhere.
+After all, my question was answered and the answer was that
+there finally was no problem with having one's rules code public.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:07:57 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I repeat... I am not part of Nevrax. Just a fellow developer that is following 
+this guys great work.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; 1) It make faster the development.
+</I>&gt;<i> did u get it right ?????
+</I>
+GPL shorts develpoment time as the amount of code that can be reused is 
+infinite.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; 2) The user base is also developers base
+</I>&gt;<i> sure ?
+</I>
+Sure. Start yourself a GPL project and you will see.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+</I>&gt;<i> proved ?
+</I>
+Ask GPG guys ;-)
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+</I>&gt;<i> yes , but is it that much important ?
+</I>
+Well, if you run Windows perhaps not... but what about a MacOS user or a Linux 
+PPC user?
+
+Regards,
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+ 
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:10:47 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+September for a working version of Snowballs.
+That's due to the fact that people at Nevrax rewrote lots of code since the
+last release of Snowballs.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Yann Morvan&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:34 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+&gt;<i> I've managed to build nel correctly, but
+</I>&gt;<i> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes
+</I>&gt;<i> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/
+</I>&gt;<i> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole
+</I>&gt;<i> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out
+</I>&gt;<i> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ?
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks in advance,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Yann
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] culling and transforms</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] culling and transforms</H1>
+    <B>Lionel Berenguier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] culling and transforms">berenguier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:14:03 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux@voila.fr">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:21 PM
+Subject: [Nel] culling and transforms
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hi ,
+</I>&gt;<i> I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and
+</I>&gt;<i> noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing
+</I>&gt;<i> the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the
+</I>&gt;<i> view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly :
+</I>
+Is it not nearly the same?
+
+transform the planes:  transform 6 planes =&gt; 6*16= 96 muls.
+transform the AABB:  transform 8 vectors =&gt; 8*12= 96 muls.
+
+But maybe your trick to transform an AABB is to just transform the center
+(12), then transform the 3 half vectors of the AABB (3*3 because of their
+axis form), and then just do some add ?  (ooops :) )
+
+regards
+
+Lionel.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] A bit of news</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] A bit of news</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] A bit of news">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:32:23 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>The following news will appear on the sight later today.
+
+Regards to all.
+Daniel
+
+
+PARTICLE SYSTEM
+First release of the particle system editor with full access to the
+particule system engine is out (it's an extension to the object viewer).
+
+ENVIRONMENT MAPPING
+Flat and cubic environment map rendering have been added to the 3D engine
+and the tools.
+
+AUDIO LIBRARY
+The lowest level layer of the sound library is functional (the sound library
+is still in very early stage of development)
+
+SERVICE ADMIN IMPROVEMENTS
+Loads of new features added to the Win32 displayer
+- window positions can be stored in the config file
+- displayer window now has a prompt to allow live interaction with running
+services (Note: The same commands can be sent to the services by the admin
+client)
+
+LIGHT MAPS
+Version 1.0 of the lightmap implementation is fully implemented and
+available
+
+COLLISIONS
+Version 1.0 of the PACS collision code fully implemented and available
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>Dave Turner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:05:00 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>elijah wright wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; You are totally wrong...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> incorrect.  you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed
+</I>&gt;<i> libraries.  library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do
+</I>&gt;<i> not constitute &quot;extending&quot; GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as
+</I>&gt;<i> it is intended to be used.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team
+</I>&gt;<i> could countenance dual-licensing any such &quot;rules API&quot; and releasing
+</I>&gt;<i> parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+1.  Do not use the term commercial when you mean proprietary. 
+Proprietary is the opposite of Free as in Freedom.
+
+2.  The exception to the GPL refers only to system libraries.
+
+See this for details:
+<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html#MoneyGuzzlerInc">http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html#MoneyGuzzlerInc</A>
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the
+street or get a phone call and you'll be there.  We miss you, Pug.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Game Rules</H1>
+    <B>Dave Turner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:42:42 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE><A HREF="mailto:x5101920@fedro.ugr.es">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Mensaje citado por: John Cosby &lt;<A HREF="mailto:jcosby@gscyclone.com">jcosby@gscyclone.com</A>&gt;:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; a
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; gameplay
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; cannot.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I am not a lawer... But you say &quot;the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted.&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k?
+</I>&gt;<i> So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic,
+</I>&gt;<i> they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you
+</I>&gt;<i> can copy right D&amp;D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy
+</I>&gt;<i> right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to
+</I>&gt;<i> patent it to. :-(
+</I>
+You can patent a game rule set:
+
+<A HREF="http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,641,166'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,641,166&RS=PN/5,641,166">http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&amp;Sect2=HITOFF&amp;d=PALL&amp;p=1&amp;u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&amp;r=1&amp;f=G&amp;l=50&amp;s1='5,641,166'.WKU.&amp;OS=PN/5,641,166&amp;RS=PN/5,641,166</A>
+<A HREF="http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1='board+game'&OS="board+game"&RS="board+game"">http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&amp;Sect2=HITOFF&amp;p=1&amp;u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&amp;r=2&amp;f=G&amp;l=50&amp;co1=AND&amp;d=ft00&amp;s1='board+game'&amp;OS=&quot;board+game&quot;&amp;RS=&quot;board+game&quot;</A>
+
+You can also copyright the precise look of a critical hit table, and the
+wording of the hits, and the arrangement of them, but not the
+information therein. If the arrangement is the only logical one or
+otherwise doesn't involve creativity, then it is not copyrightable (see
+ALEXANDRIA DRAFTING CO V. FRANKLIN MAPS at
+<A HREF="http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/97D0773P.HTM">http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/97D0773P.HTM</A>).
+
+In short, creative stuff (even slightly creative) is copyrightable. 
+Processes, etc. are patentable.  So, the code to implement critical hits
+is copyrightable, but if someone reverse engineers and reimplements it,
+the author has no recourse.
+
+
+Disclaimer: IANAL.  But I know more about copyright, patent, and
+trademark law than both of my parents put together.  And they are
+lawyers :)
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the
+street or get a phone call and you'll be there.  We miss you, Pug.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f9b17c75
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html
@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000472.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:20:56 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Yann,
+
+Nel changeds a lot since we wrote Snowballs. If you want compile it, you should
+compile the NeL source code provided with the Snowballs source code on
+nevrax.org :
+
+   <A HREF="http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_1.zip">http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_1.zip</A>
+or
+   <A HREF="http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_2.tar.gz">http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_2.tar.gz</A>
+
+Have fun :-)
+
+
+Yann Morvan wrote:
+&gt;<i> I've managed to build nel correctly, but
+</I>&gt;<i> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes
+</I>&gt;<i> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/
+</I>&gt;<i> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole
+</I>&gt;<i> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out
+</I>&gt;<i> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ?
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks in advance,
+</I>
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9f668c18
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:04:57 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+&gt;<i> The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+</I>&gt;<i> September for a working version of Snowballs.
+</I>
+In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the end
+of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-)
+
+I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs should
+look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do my
+best in that way :-)
+
+It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with several
+services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the
+server structur will show how we design NeL to be used.
+
+Have fun ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1092566d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1>
+    <B>Yann Morvan</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:04:32 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs.
+The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism
+used by the server to identify a player's action and call the
+matching piece of code, and how to define those &quot;pieces of code&quot;.
+I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it,
+but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find,
+don't hesitate to tell me about it.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html
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index 00000000..74ca6758
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:51:48 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Your best bet for now is to look at the layer 4 code sample
+(<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/net_layer4">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/net_layer4</A>)
+
+In this example the 'client' sends messages to the 'frontend', the
+'frontend' treats these messages and sends them to the 'ping service'. The
+'ping service' receives messages from the 'frontend', treats them and sends
+back new messages. The 'frontend' receives messages from the 'server',
+treats them and dispatches new messages to the 'client'...
+
+The following chunks of code in the 'frontend' is the key. You can extend
+the callback arrays to include messages for all the actions that the player
+can send to the shard:
+
+
+/*
+ * Callback array for messages received from a client
+ */
+TCallbackItem CallbackArray[] =
+{
+        { &quot;PING&quot;, cbPing }        // when receiving a &quot;PING&quot; message, call
+cbPing()
+};
+
+
+/*
+ * Callback array for message received from the ping service
+ */
+TCallbackItem PingServiceCallbackArray[] =
+{
+        { &quot;PONG&quot;, cbPong }        // when receiving a &quot;PONG&quot; message, call
+cbPong()
+};
+
+
+
+Snowballs, being based on an older version of NeL, is far less clean - the
+callback table contains a mixture of admin messages (such as &quot;C&quot; and &quot;D&quot;),
+and game messages (such as &quot;PAN&quot; and &quot;SHO&quot;). Otherwise the principles are
+the same.
+
+// Callback array as a server
+TCallbackItem CallbackArray [] =
+{
+        { &quot;ES&quot;, cbServerProcessEntityState },
+        //{ &quot;BT&quot;, cbSpawnBot },
+        { &quot;C&quot;, cbConnect },
+        { &quot;D&quot;, cbDisconnect },
+        //{ &quot;RST&quot;, cbResetServer },
+        { &quot;NAM&quot;, cbAssignName },
+        { &quot;PAN&quot;, cbPan },
+        { &quot;SHO&quot;, cbShoot },
+        { &quot;RMW&quot;, cbProcessRemoveWeapon },
+        { &quot;AUT&quot;, cbWelcome },
+        { &quot;DUMP&quot;, cbDumpState },
+        { &quot;CHAT&quot;, cbChat },
+        { &quot;PING&quot;, cbPing },
+        { &quot;PONG&quot;, cbPong }
+        //{ &quot;ACC&quot;, cbGiveAccess } // this is for the test client. Remove it
+for a real use or any client can connect with any password !
+};
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of
+Yann Morvan
+Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 8:05 PM
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs.
+The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism
+used by the server to identify a player's action and call the
+matching piece of code, and how to define those &quot;pieces of code&quot;.
+I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it,
+but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find,
+don't hesitate to tell me about it.
+
+	Yann
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..70ede038
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html
@@ -0,0 +1,92 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000470.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000472.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:29:44 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#471">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#471">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Go Cedric, go! We're all with you :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A>
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Cedric Valignat&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 7:04 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; September for a working version of Snowballs.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the
+</I>end
+&gt;<i> of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs
+</I>should
+&gt;<i> look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do
+</I>my
+&gt;<i> best in that way :-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with
+</I>several
+&gt;<i> services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the
+</I>&gt;<i> server structur will show how we design NeL to be used.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Have fun ...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Cedric.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..97f0fa6c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html
@@ -0,0 +1,115 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Italian NeL community</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000466.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000475.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Italian NeL community</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Italian NeL community">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:15:42 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#473">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="subject.html#473">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#473">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+This message is mainly intended for the head people at Nevrax.=20
+
+I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com for italian =
+people using NeL.
+This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new =
+section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of =
+code and the like.=20
+
+Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in =
+supporting this initiative?
+Other people's thoughts about this are welcome.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)
+My Lab (<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;This message is mainly intended for the =
+head people=20
+at Nevrax. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I am thinking about opening a new =
+section on=20
+hateseed.com for italian people using NeL.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;This means that I'd open a new forum =
+for=20
+NeL-related talkings and a new section with NeL related material like =
+downloads,=20
+tutorials, snippets of code and the like. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Do you think this would be usefull? =
+Would you be=20
+interested in supporting this initiative?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Other people's thoughts about this are=20
+welcome.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;--&lt;BR&gt;Valerio =
+Santinelli&lt;BR&gt;HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(&lt;A href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com"">http://www.hateseed.com&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com</A">http://www.hateseed.com&lt;/A</A>&gt;)&lt;BR&gt;In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it"">http://www.inflames.it&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it</A">http://www.inflames.it&lt;/A</A>&gt;)&lt;BR&gt;My Lab =
+(&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com"">http://tanis.hateseed.com&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com</A">http://tanis.hateseed.com&lt;/A</A>&gt;)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;=
+/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8e440846
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html
@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000475.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000476.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:10:14 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#474">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#474">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#474">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#474">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Wow, I'm out of town for three days and I miss all the fun ! :)
+Anyway, here goes my 0.02$.
+
+About the &quot;game rules&quot; issue:
+John and Dave pretty much hit the nail on the head, so I won't go into an 
+extended rant. I'll only add that although you could probably (as Dave 
+mentionned) patent your rules *in the US*, it would most certainly be a bad 
+idea as it is very expensive and time consuming to fill such a patent and 
+numerous countries will not recognize it anyway.
+Keep in mind that software and business method patents are highly 
+objectionable in the first place. You can read more about this subject here:
+<A HREF="http://www.freepatents.org/">http://www.freepatents.org/</A>
+and here:
+<A HREF="http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/against-software-patents.html">http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/against-software-patents.html</A>
+
+European citizens should also consider signing the petition against 
+software patents:
+<A HREF="http://petition.eurolinux.org/index.html?LANG=en">http://petition.eurolinux.org/index.html?LANG=en</A>
+
+As for the Pro/Anti GPL debate:
+Stephane Craux, I'm afraid you are *completely* missing the point of Free 
+Software. If you are genuinely interested in learning about it and 
+understanding what it stands for, I strongly suggest you spend some time 
+reading the texts on the GNU project's &quot;philosophy&quot; page:
+<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/">http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/</A>
+But I suspect you're only trolling... :(
+
+Finally, for those who still have questions about NeL's license, don't 
+forget: the GPL FAQ is your friend !
+<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html">http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html</A>
+
+Hope this helps !
+
+O.
+
+
+
+
+
+-- Nevrax --
+Olivier Lejade
+CEO and co-founder
+www.nevrax.com
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fc1de228
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html
@@ -0,0 +1,65 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Italian NeL community</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000473.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000474.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Italian NeL community</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Italian NeL community">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:43:12 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#475">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#475">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#475">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At 10:15 AM 7/4/01 +0200, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com
+</I>
+Nice site.
+It's a pity my Italian is so lousy: it seems interesting too.
+
+&gt;<i>This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new 
+</I>&gt;<i>section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of 
+</I>&gt;<i>code and the like.
+</I>&gt;<i>Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in supporting 
+</I>&gt;<i>this initiative?
+</I>
+Well to be honest, I have no idea if it would be useful...
+But if *you* think some Italian-only speaking people would be interested, 
+then sure: go for it ! :)
+And if you go so far as to translate some NeL docs and stuff, I'm sure Yan 
+would be happy to make some space for them on the official NeL website.
+Here at Nevrax, we're focusing on an international, english speaking 
+community, but it would be cool to have localized forums elsewhere.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..040243a3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html
@@ -0,0 +1,53 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000474.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000477.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 04 Jul 2001 16:01:52 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#476">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="subject.html#476">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#476">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>BTW, we put it on the website but we forgot to tell you guys. We formed an 
+advisory board for Nevrax:
+<A HREF="http://nevrax.com/press/board.php">http://nevrax.com/press/board.php</A>
+and Richard Stallman agreed to be on the board (a premiere AFAIK).
+He serves as our moral authority regarding Free Software, so I guess that 
+we can safely say we are pretty well advised as far as the GPL is 
+concerned... ;)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#476">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..bba93532
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html
@@ -0,0 +1,84 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40ens-lyon.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000500.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000495.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Yann Morvan</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40ens-lyon.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:59:27 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li>
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+<PRE>I've read the thread on MUD-Dev and some people here,
+who seem to be quite experienced, say that TCP is not a
+good choice for client/server communication when there are
+many users and with real time constraints and it seems reasonable
+since TCP implements re-emit mecanisms which are irrelevent
+if the resent data doesn't matter anymore. They
+say that UDP is a better choice, though EA and AC designed their own
+layer. I am not a network expert but I think it would be wise to ponder
+things thoroughly on that point, but I realize that designing one's own
+layer (even using UDP as a starting point) is probably quite a hard task.
+
+	Yann 
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:00:13 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Sorry, I'm not the network guru at all, so may be it looks childish ...
+I think you should implement  minimum error checking protocol -
+1. Client sends UDP data to the server
+2. Client wait for confirmation from other end what data was received (use some
+UID for packets to send back as confirmation)
+3. If some timeout expired without confirmation, then client resends its data again
+
+Thursday, July 05, 2001, 4:36:47 PM, you wrote:
+
+VL&gt; Hi everybody!
+
+VL&gt; Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+
+VL&gt; Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+VL&gt; discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+VL&gt; thought and discuss about this.
+
+VL&gt; On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+VL&gt; (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+VL&gt; problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+VL&gt; <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A>
+
+VL&gt; There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems
+VL&gt; here:
+VL&gt; <A HREF="https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php">https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php</A>
+
+VL&gt; As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+VL&gt; but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+VL&gt; more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+
+VL&gt; In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+VL&gt; in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+VL&gt; compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+
+VL&gt; Vianney Lecroart
+VL&gt; ---
+VL&gt; lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+VL&gt; icq#: 6870415
+VL&gt; homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+VL&gt; www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+VL&gt; w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+VL&gt; _______________________________________________
+VL&gt; Nel mailing list
+VL&gt; <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+VL&gt; <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:00:15 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+</I>&gt;<i> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+</I>&gt;<i> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+</I>
+You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP.
+If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea.
+
+in &quot;effective TCP/IP Programming&quot; Jon C. Snader says
+in
+Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP
+Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP
+
+Ok, i'm not very useful in this conversation but
+i'm not (yet :)) a network guru ....
+
+I'm interest by answer from other people.
+
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+</I>&gt;<i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+</I>&gt;<i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i> ---
+</I>&gt;<i> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+</I>&gt;<i> icq#: 6870415
+</I>&gt;<i> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+</I>&gt;<i> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+<A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A>
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+<A HREF="http://www.virtools.com/">http://www.virtools.com/</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:02:54 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>You already know my position :)
+
+UDP for everything except datas that should get through reliably and that
+aren't making a great impact on gaming speed, like chat, which should be
+reliable (i don't really want to lose pieces of discussion throughout the
+net) but that it's not critical to be delivered without lag.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A>
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vianney Lecroart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:36 PM
+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+
+
+&gt;<i> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+</I>&gt;<i> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+</I>&gt;<i> thought and discuss about this.
+</I>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Dave Turner</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:14:47 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi everybody!
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+</I>&gt;<i> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+</I>&gt;<i> thought and discuss about this.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+</I>&gt;<i> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+</I>&gt;<i> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems
+</I>&gt;<i> here:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php">https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+</I>&gt;<i> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+</I>&gt;<i> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+</I>&gt;<i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+</I>&gt;<i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+There's often a lot of lag at the beginning of a UDP &quot;connection&quot; (yes,
+I know UDP doesn't have those).  Then gateways, which consider UDP to
+have higher priority, remember that there's a connection, and things
+start going faster.  Your tests should be written with this in mind.  
+
+You might also want to look into XUDP, 
+<A HREF="http://www.gweep.net/~rocko/XUDP_Paper/paper.html">http://www.gweep.net/~rocko/XUDP_Paper/paper.html</A>
+
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+&quot;I would say our forefathers would have been ashamed, but they were 
+slave owners.&quot; - Slashdot Anonymous Coward.  Bring Pug back!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:45:39 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Just facts:
+We  run  relatively large chat server with our own server software. We
+use  TCP  for all communications between Java clients and server-side.
+At  peak-load  time we have 2000 opened TCP-sockets at once. Profiling
+shows  up  what most of CPU time server performs write().
+And finally SW and HW - we use SunOS 5.7 aka Solaris7
+Our homemade software written in C++ utilize 2,5 CPU out of 4 in our
+Sun Enterprise Server 450 with 4 CPU and 1G RAM
+May  be  someone  have  the  similar  service on UDP and can share his
+statistic ?
+
+--
+Dim Segebart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">archer@frmug.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:50:31 +0200</I>
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+<PRE>According to Nicolas Hognon:
+&gt;<i> &gt; As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP.
+</I>&gt;<i> If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea.
+</I>
+Hi. And first, I confirm I'm the same Vincent Archer that had @nevrax.com,
+but I no longer work there. Just resubscribed in time to see the discussion.
+
+I had a vulgarisation post on the topic on one yahoogroups (Dark Age of
+Camelot), but you can't access it without subscribing, so I'll summarise
+the thing.
+
+&gt;<i> Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP
+</I>&gt;<i> Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP
+</I>
+That's good advice... if you have the objectives of TCP in mind. You don't.
+In theory.
+
+Pros of TCP:
+
+- Reliable
+- Optimised over 20 years of programming
+- Fast for development
+- Most of the firewalls/telecom eqpt out hereare optimised for TCP protocols;
+  I know several IP providers who drop anything non-TCP based first when they
+  suffer congestion on their routers.
+
+Cons of TCP:
+
+- TCP is stream-based, the unit is the byte. You need to provide your own
+  packet framing, as you may, with one read call, catch part of a packet,
+  an entire packet, or multiple packets at the same time.
+- TCP has its own model for retransmission of data; you have minimal to no
+  input on that model's behaviour. And the model is geared to the transmission
+  of bulk data. There is one bit to indicate &quot;interactive data&quot; in the TCP
+  protocol; no common equipment I know out there uses or checks that bit.
+- TCP is strictly sequential: there is no way to access data &quot;as soon as
+  received&quot;, or to ignore/discard &quot;obsolete data&quot;: each data chunk must be
+  received, processed (at least at the framing level 5 layer, if you follow
+  the OSI layer model) before the next one.
+
+The last item in the list is what makes everyone look toward UDP (or any
+other IP-level protocol in fact, but routers and firewalls are usually
+disposed to treat more kindly UDP protocols than pure IP ones) for any
+application with real time constraints where:
+
+1: The exact ordering of data isn't a strong requirement
+2: The immediate processing of received data is highly desirable
+
+The real trap, as you underline, is when people design their own protocol
+over UDP and end up using the same - unconscious - model as TCP; this
+often leads to a &quot;poor man's TCP&quot; protocol that address none of the cons
+while providing none of the pros.
+
+To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the
+data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e. meaning)
+of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you
+cannot plug in a &quot;random UDP protocol&quot; in your app (in this case, the
+client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in
+complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go directly
+to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already
+made and tested.
+
+Then, there's the whole problem of kernel resources devoted to TCP stack.
+I pass here; I'm not a kernel developper.
+
+(but anyone who plays AO knows the problems you can have merely to *connect*
+ to the game at times)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">archer@frmug.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:04:42 +0200</I>
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+<PRE>According to Vianney Lecroart:
+&gt;<i> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+</I>&gt;<i> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+</I>&gt;<i> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A>
+</I>
+
+This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of
+AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the
+real &quot;problem&quot;.
+
+I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience
+&quot;bad lag&quot; (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution).
+However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag.
+
+They still chat with each other.
+
+And I've done checking with tcpdump: you do not talk directly between clients.
+Everything goes thru the AO servers.
+
+My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service
+model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a
+zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported
+by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service
+crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and
+randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning
+(zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection timeout -
+ you get &quot;Area Change not initiated on server).
+
+So you have:
+
+Client ---- TCP ----&gt; Front End ---- TCP ----&gt; Zone server
+                          ^                  /
+                          |                 /
+                          V                /
+Client ---- TCP ----&gt; Front End ---- TCP -/
+
+which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there
+appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens
+communication to zone servers. :(
+
+&gt;<i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+</I>&gt;<i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+</I>&gt;<i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+</I>
+Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under TCP :)
+(you lose connection first)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+    <B>Zane</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zane@supernova.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:08:09 -0700</I>
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+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vincent Archer&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:50 AM
+
+
+&gt;<i> To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the
+</I>&gt;<i> data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e.
+</I>meaning)
+&gt;<i> of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you
+</I>&gt;<i> cannot plug in a &quot;random UDP protocol&quot; in your app (in this case, the
+</I>&gt;<i> client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in
+</I>&gt;<i> complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go
+</I>directly
+&gt;<i> to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already
+</I>&gt;<i> made and tested.
+</I>
+I don't believe that this is entirely true.  Let's look at what we need out
+of a protocol for NeL:
+
+1)  Know what data HAS to be delivered and what data doesn't really.
+2)  Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large
+chunk of data
+at once or out of order. (If the data is spread out, not read in one call to
+the network object, then we don't need to know if it can be overwritten, and
+in order  the game engine will overwrite it if it's the same class of data)
+
+Problem one is very easy to solve, we simply use a priority argument when
+sending data with our network object.  In this case high priority data could
+be sent via TCP and low priority data could be sent via UDP.
+
+Problem two really isn't all that hard to solve either.  Perhaps we have a
+'class' argument whend sending data via our network object.  When a packet
+is sent it includes it's data class and a serial number, both client and
+server keep track of both.  When we recieve data we check the class and
+serial number.  If the serial number is out of sequence and the data is
+considered old for that class then it's discarded, otherwise it's accepted.
+If the data has no class (class is set to 0) then all data is accepted and
+the serial number isn't checked.
+
+The only problem I see is mainting the large list of data classes.  Really I
+don't think it's that much of a problem and wether or not you're using this
+model if you do discarding of data you'll be doing class checking in some
+form anyway.
+
+I'm sure the rest of you will point out the many other flaws I don't see.
+:<i>P
+</I>
+-E.J. Wilburn
+<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
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+    <B>Zane</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zane@supernova.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:05:07 -0700</I>
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+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vincent Archer&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:04 AM
+
+
+&gt;<i> This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of
+</I>&gt;<i> AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the
+</I>&gt;<i> real &quot;problem&quot;.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;bad lag&quot; (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution).
+</I>&gt;<i> However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag.
+</I>
+I also play AO but every time I've experienced real &quot;bad lag&quot; you cannot sit
+or do any action that requires server-side confirmation including ALL chat
+channels.  In fact, I frequently will say something or shout something so
+that I know as soon as it shows up it's done lagging and this works like a
+charm.  What they're experiencing is a different type of lag than is
+discussed in the above post, that's when a particular zone they're in lags
+(or the server hosting that zone) but not all servers are affected.  I
+haven't experienced that type of lag since beta.
+
+As a side note I've noticed that when I get the &quot;bad lag&quot; others around me
+appear to get it too (at least sometimes) which lends weight to the packet
+storm theory.
+
+&gt;<i> My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service
+</I>&gt;<i> model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a
+</I>&gt;<i> zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported
+</I>&gt;<i> by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service
+</I>&gt;<i> crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and
+</I>&gt;<i> randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning
+</I>&gt;<i> (zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection
+</I>timeout -
+&gt;<i>  you get &quot;Area Change not initiated on server).
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> So you have:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Client ---- TCP ----&gt; Front End ---- TCP ----&gt; Zone server
+</I>&gt;<i>                           ^                  /
+</I>&gt;<i>                           |                 /
+</I>&gt;<i>                           V                /
+</I>&gt;<i> Client ---- TCP ----&gt; Front End ---- TCP -/
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there
+</I>&gt;<i> appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens
+</I>&gt;<i> communication to zone servers. :(
+</I>
+There doesn't need to be one front-end per client.  There can be several
+load-balanced front-ends that handle multiple clients each.  The major
+problem with this is if one front-end crashes all those clients get dropped
+(although under UNIX (I haven't been able to get win32 to do this) you can
+pull some funky sockets tricks and recover from a crash without dropping
+most players, just majorly lagging them &amp; loosing some updates).
+
+The good side to this is you only need one connection per client per
+protocol (so 2 connections if using both TCP and UDP).  Unfortunately with
+TCP that's both a pro and a con.  With one TCP connection a dropped packet
+on a chat message delays all other TCP traffic, but it also lessens
+bandwidth and server resources over multiple connections (larger, more
+efficient packets).  Also, with a single front end you can have as many
+seperate services as you want without having to have a ton of different
+connections to the client.
+
+Regardless, we have no data as to wether or not AO is doing it that way.
+Maybe tonight I'll run it in windowed mode and check netstat.  If we've got
+more than one active TCP connection to Funcom servers than that model
+probably isn't what they're using.
+
+On a side note, using multiple TCP connections would eliminate some of the
+packet-loss latency issues at the cost of increased bandwidth.  Say you have
+one connection for chat channels, one for inventory &amp; stat handling, one for
+world actions and one for combat.  If connection 1 drops a packet its lag
+won't affect the other connections as much.  But of course if they all drop
+packets at the same time we get the packet storm problem again. :)
+
+&gt;<i> Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under
+</I>TCP :)
+&gt;<i> (you lose connection first)
+</I>
+Yes but TCP has latency issues, UDP has packet-loss issues.  Why can't we
+have the uber protocol that has neither??? :)
+
+BTW, does anyone know if ipv6 has addressed this issue?  I'm aware of QoS
+but not sure to what degree they've taken it.  Personally I think the only
+way we could get garunteed delivery with low latency is to have each router
+along the way garuntee a packet is delivered (if, of course, it's load
+allows that packet to be accepted in the first place).  That way if a packet
+is dropped by a router due to load (or some other issue) the previous router
+expects a timely response and when it doesn't get one it resends or sends
+via a different route.  (Of course I would expect a per-packet ack, probably
+a CRC-ack for a certain amount of traffic)  The point being the original
+sender should never have to resend as long as the first router gets all the
+packets.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+    <B>David Mentre</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>06 Jul 2001 09:54:59 +0200</I>
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+<PRE>Hi,
+
+&gt;<i>From all other posters, it seems that performance result is highly
+</I>dependent on implementation. So to make the Really Good Choice(tm), you
+should have both and choose according to *figures*. So I would do that
+in the following order :
+ 
+ 1. design a &quot;packet sending&quot; layer which allows messages
+    sending/receiving with semantics in mind (see Vincent's post in the
+    same thread). Maybe NeL has already that, I haven't check the
+    source, sorry.
+
+ 2. implement this layer using TCP. Should be straightforward.
+
+   =&gt; gives you a backup implementation
+
+   =&gt; gives you basic performance figures
+
+ 3. design and implement UDP implementation_s_ with various
+    requirements depending on the following parameters:
+
+     - packet loss or not
+
+     - in order delivery or not
+
+    You could start from the easiest (packet loss &amp;&amp; out of order &lt;=&gt;
+    raw UDP) and incrementally develop more complicated ones.
+
+ 4. substitute parts of TCP implementation (chat, position packets, ...)
+    with the corresponding UDP based protocol
+
+ 5. implement a benchmark and test, test, test, ... ; then go to step 4
+    and loop
+
+
+Ok. I don't propose any line of code so you could directly throw this
+post to /dev/null but you asked for comments. ;)
+
+BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to
+reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it
+may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax
+on some spare partition to try to &quot;enter the loop&quot;.
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@inria.fr">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>alfred</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:41:50 +1000</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>You *must* replace your transport mechanism with UDP :)
+
+TCP provides (nah, ensures) reliable delivery of data, but it can spend a
+long time transmitting (especially on clogged up links). Between packet
+errors and backoffs due to packet drops it can easily take 2seconds plus to
+get data down the &quot;tcp pipe&quot;. And seeing its a pipe, everything behind it is
+&quot;backed&quot; up. So, time critical data can't just jump past useless data (like
+MOTD's,etc).
+
+With UDP on the otherhand, you lose the reliable data, but you get your
+timeliness. Because of the datagram nature of transmission, you can also
+implement independant &quot;streams&quot;, with reliablity on some streams (via extra
+software layers) and timeliness on others (auto drop of old data for eg).
+
+Btw, you cannot &quot;design your own layer&quot;, because you need to use the
+existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP).
+However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to
+provide &quot;reliable udp&quot; (its almost trivial to do).
+
+Any, UDP is the only option that is sensible for anything that has time
+critical performance or for things with mutliple &quot;data channels&quot;.
+
+BTW, I do stuff like this for a living (I am a network researched for
+www.dsto.defence.gov.au), with a fair bit of work in the voice arena, so I
+have some experience backing me up here :)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vianney Lecroart&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:36 AM
+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hi everybody!
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+</I>&gt;<i> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+</I>&gt;<i> thought and discuss about this.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and
+</I>server
+&gt;<i> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+</I>&gt;<i> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these
+</I>problems
+&gt;<i> here:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php">https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+</I>&gt;<i> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+</I>&gt;<i> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+</I>&gt;<i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+</I>&gt;<i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i> ---
+</I>&gt;<i> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+</I>&gt;<i> icq#: 6870415
+</I>&gt;<i> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o?
+</I>K-
+&gt;<i> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:21:51 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Btw, you cannot &quot;design your own layer&quot;, because you need to use the
+</I>&gt;<i> existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP).
+</I>&gt;<i> However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to
+</I>&gt;<i> provide &quot;reliable udp&quot; (its almost trivial to do).
+</I>
+But do you need 'reliable transmission' ? Lost or delayed packets are
+part of the rules, couldn't you take this into account in your network
+and game code design ? Have a look at the streaming pb and protocols
+such as RTP or RTSP, they deal with the pb of 1) time sync and 2) data
+loss. This is sometime perfectly acceptable to loose some info in
+a game and replace it with interpolated data until getting back in
+sync.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Zane</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zane@supernova.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:59:26 -0700</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Vincent Archer&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 4:57 AM
+
+
+&gt;<i> That's priority, and bandwidth management. Not really TCP-vs-UDP relevant.
+</I>
+Yes, but what I'm saying is knowing that is a feature of the network object
+I was discussing further into the message.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; 2)  Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; chunk of data
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> The latter requires you to look at the semantics of the data, not just the
+</I>&gt;<i> syntax. You have to posit specific types of data, and, for example, you
+</I>&gt;<i> don't have to retransmit data type X about object A if it has been already
+</I>&gt;<i> sent out, but you have to retransmit data type Y about the same object A.
+</I>
+I don't mean to be confrontational but did you even read the rest of my
+message?  With the network object I was discussing you pass data to be sent
+to the client with Priority and data class.  The user of the object sets up
+the classes in a manner such that the network object is aware of the classes
+(in this case a simple enum would be enough).  Here's an example:
+
+You want to pass property X of object A to the client.  You don't care if it
+gets there or not.  You then pass the data to the network object with a low
+priority and a class corresponding to the type of data property X is.
+
+You want to pass property Y of object A to the client and you need to ensure
+that it gets there.  You then pass the data to the network object with a
+high priority (and no class).
+
+&gt;<i> This quickly require you to tie the protocol to the exact game being made.
+</I>&gt;<i> A current 3D coordinate/movement vector does not require retransmission
+</I>&gt;<i> (or, at least, not the retransmission of the same data; you may send back
+</I>&gt;<i>  a more up-to-date version), but it automatically implies your game has
+</I>&gt;<i> moving 3D objects.
+</I>
+The network object I described doesn't need to know anything other than data
+class and priority.  Both of those items are determined by the engine.  The
+only special knowledge the network object needs is the list of data classes.
+
+Please re-read my e-mail.
+
+In case the original wasn't clear enough the object itself decides which
+protocol to use based on priority.  High priority data would use TCP and low
+would use UDP with of course an additional header in the packet.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Sal</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:svferro%40earthlink.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">svferro@earthlink.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:32:46 -0400</I>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+</I>&gt;<i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+</I>&gt;<i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+    I've coded small scale 3d client/server systems in both TCP and UDP
+while developing software for Worldforge, and have playtested both systems.
+The end result was that UDP gameplay just seemed smoother, especially under
+low latency/bad connections.  Even when I had inserted code to purposely
+drop packets, gameplay was still surprisingly bearable.
+
+    On my LAN or for persons with fast links to the server TCP was not
+really noticeably slower, though.  So with very low latency, and little
+packet loss TCP would be the better choice, but unfortunately that isn't the
+case for the internet just yet.  A lot of people are behind slow links,
+shared internet connections, or in unfortunate locations... for some people
+overseas my TCP-based software was almost unplayable, where UDP was still at
+least minimally usable.  If you guys do end up benchmarking TCP vs. UDP, be
+sure to test over a simulated low-latency, and/or 'noisy' link.  Drop
+packets randomly, simulate possible internet conditions.  I'm sure you will
+come to the same results I did.
+
+    The majority of problems I've had with UDP are firewall related. And
+they were almost all serverside, ie a person trying to run a UDP server
+behind a firewall and unable to map ports/etc. to let clients connect.
+Clientside, however there was very little trouble, it worked through my
+ipmasq firewall without problems, for one, and others had been testing
+behind firewalls also.
+
+    However, a bit of 'reinventing TCP' was needed for the reliable data.
+This is unavoidable, some messages need to be sent and can't be
+ignored/dropped. And I agree that the OS's TCP implementation is probably
+more efficient than one drawn up for a video game.  But I don't think using
+both UDP and TCP is worth the trouble to gain a reliable data transmission
+stream.  I just don't think the performance improvement would be significant
+enough to justify the implementation... Let me explain why I think so.
+
+    Now, say you were sending a 10 MB file over the internet to a friend.
+_Every_ packet must make it to the peer or the file would be corrupt. Every
+packet must be acknowledged somehow, using some crc, sequence number... etc.
+I haven't looked at any actual TCP implementation's source code, but I'll
+bet it does all sorts of compromising between packet transmission and
+acknowledgement frequency,  message sizes, etc. and over the course of
+sending 10 Million packets (ok, maybe less for a 10 MB file)  it probably
+saves a considerable amount of time over some dumb UDP code that
+acknowledges say, every 10 packets or some other simplistic mechanism.
+
+    Yes, in that situation, reinventing TCP would be a bad idea... and yes,
+it is definately a better choice than UDP, which in fact is why almost every
+internet protocol uses TCP.  But in our case we aren't sending a 10MB file,
+we're sending short messages to tell the client/server something important.
+ie a 'player X has died' message, which could be maybe a dozen bytes in
+size. All the fancy optimization that an OS's TCP stack does over the course
+of time wouldn't be of much use here.  Also, in sending a 10MB file you dont
+care about latency, and you know what the next few thousand packets are
+going to consist of beforehand, whereas in a video game this is not the
+case. The optimizations TCP gives you would only take effect if you were
+sending large, continuous blocks of data.
+
+    So for the gameplay networking layer I suggest UDP.  The only exception
+in my opinion is for things like automatic client-patching, or downloading
+of media.  In that case,  having the client make an HTTP connection to a web
+server, or something similair is a *much* better choice than using the
+'gameplay networking' layer to send this data.
+
+    The software I spoke of here is all in Worldforge's (www.worldforge.org)
+CVS repository.  The software I tested with was XClient, and XServer, which
+are both in CVS.
+
+    The UDP networking library I created and used in XClient/XServer, which
+I recommend taking a look at, is called 'XUDP' (not the library that Dave
+posted about, but has the same name :-/) is also in Worldforge CVS. I
+extracted the UDP networking code from the GPLed Quake1 src, and converted
+it into a general C++ OO UDP networking library. It contains code for both
+reliable and unreliable transmission of data.  Credit should go mostly to
+John Carmack of Id software for the code. I just abstracted, and tweaked a
+bit for use in an MMORPG setting. It might be helpful if you guys decide to
+go with UDP for Nel.
+
+    Anyway, sorry for the long winded rant. Hope this helps some, and keep
+up the great work!
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Power cut</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] Power cut</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Power cut">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:10 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main
+trip switch cut out during an electrical storm.
+They should be back up now.
+
+Daniel
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a686dffb
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@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:44:09 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I've been reading this thread with great interest.  There's clearly a good
+case for using UDP for low priority or short life-span data.  In this case
+the app software on top of NeL must clearly be designed with the fact that
+some data isn't going to get through in mind.
+
+The problem is particularly interesting because:
+1. The limiting factor on the amount of data we transmit looks like being
+the cost of output bandwidth for the servers.
+- as far as I can ascertain, at today's costs we're looking at something
+like 8-16 kilobits per client per second maximum output from the servers
+(including lost packets)
+2. The complexity of the scenes that we are trying to convey to the clients
+is rising fast.
+- view distances are increasing, as are screen resolutions which means that
+you can see more dynamic world content at any given time (characters,
+creatures, objects...)
+- It is clear that for MMORPGs we wil soon need to be able to display crouds
+or armies of 100s or even 1000s of characters and creatures at once.
+- Character animation is becoming more complicated to reflect a mix of
+actions performed simultaneously (such as speaking with emotional facial
+expression and manipulating an object in one's hands while sitting down) -
+which means more information to describe each character's state.
+- and so on...
+
+These two points combined mean that, whichever way one looks at it, a lot of
+scene information will have to be filtered out or sent at low frequency.  If
+one isn't careful low frequency sends can obviously be very sensitive to
+packet loss - which leads me to the point of this posting: In order to work
+the problem we need to have a good understanding of true internet behaviour
+and to have a good set of test data for simulating it.
+
+The trouble right now is that I have no hard data to use to model packet
+loss or delivery latency over time. If anybody knows of any studies that
+have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested. In
+particular I'm interested in moderately bad connections that exhibit both
+good behaviour and bad behaviour over time.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3a32b444
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Power cut</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000495.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000502.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Power cut</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Power cut">archer@frmug.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:49:02 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#498">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Daniel Miller:
+&gt;<i> Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main
+</I>&gt;<i> trip switch cut out during an electrical storm.
+</I>&gt;<i> They should be back up now.
+</I>
+You weren't alone; the mail server I use, which is located 200m as the crow
+flies from Nevrax, went down at the same time, and back up... almost at the
+same time :)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9b7fc638
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Olivier Lejade</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:00:11 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At 06:44 PM 7/8/01 +0200, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>If anybody knows of any studies that
+</I>&gt;<i>have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested.
+</I>
+You should absolutely take a look at CiteSeer:
+<A HREF="http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs">http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs</A>
+There's always tons of interesting stuff in there.
+
+Or, you could also try the old pfd search:
+<A HREF="http://searchpdf.adobe.com/">http://searchpdf.adobe.com/</A>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b5532f2f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000488.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000503.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:08:53 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#501">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi David,
+
+&gt;<i> BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to
+</I>&gt;<i> reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it
+</I>&gt;<i> may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax
+</I>&gt;<i> on some spare partition to try to &quot;enter the loop&quot;.
+</I>
+Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or
+greater
+We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to install
+external library like STLport and Freetype as explains in the INSTALL
+file in the NeL root directory.
+We plan to modify the configure.in to enable the compilation without STLport
+but
+we have to be sure that NeL works compile correctly without STLport!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b331b750
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html
@@ -0,0 +1,100 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Login System Game</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000498.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000514.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Login System Game</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Login System Game">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:18:55 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#502">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi everybody!
+
+We just launch our new game! no, no, please, keep cool, it's not THE game,
+but a little game for geeks/nerds/hackers :-)
+
+On the server named itsalive.nevrax.org, we have launch a shard with:
+login_service, naming_service, admin_executor_service, admin_service,
+time_service, welcome_service and a frontend_service.
+
+The goal of the game is: to crash/hack everything on this server (and only
+this one please ;-)
+
+We put the real login system to connect to the front end, so one goal is to
+successfully connect to the front end *without* login/password
+or to find a failure in the login procedure.
+
+You can find the documentation about how the login system works here:
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/login_system.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/login_system.html</A>
+
+In the CVS directory &quot;nel/samples/login_sytem/&quot;
+(<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/login_system/">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/login_system/</A>),
+you'll find the client source that is used to connect to the shard and
+also the frontend service code (that does nothing) that is running on
+itsalive.
+The client uses a configuration file (client.cfg) that contains the ip
+address of the login service
+and the login and password you want to provide. If the login doesn't exist,
+it will be added to the
+database with the password associate to it and the next time, you'll need to
+provide the good password
+to validate the login.
+
+All others services sources running on itsalive are located here:
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nelns/">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nelns/</A>
+
+Our goal is know if our login system is robust or not.
+
+You can do everything you want to crash a service, all services or the
+computer but, please,
+explain us what you did to enable us to fix the problem!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..deeb13ce
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html
@@ -0,0 +1,53 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux compiling</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000504.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000506.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux compiling</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux compiling">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:45:21 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#505">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Ed Landa wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in
+</I>&gt;<i> one section.  It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug, so
+</I>&gt;<i> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem:
+</I>
+Be sure to use the latest beta labeled '0619', it fixes some nasty bugs
+of the 4.5b7 (<A HREF="http://www.stlport.org/beta/STLport-0619.tar.gz">http://www.stlport.org/beta/STLport-0619.tar.gz</A>).
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c8db7826
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html
@@ -0,0 +1,135 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000505.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000489.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:32:00 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#506">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#506">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+This error is a NeL compilation error, not a STLport version problem.
+This should be fixed now. Thanks for the report.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Ed Landa&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:elanda@xeme.com">elanda@xeme.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 7:34 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)
+
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; greater
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to
+</I>install
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in
+</I>&gt;<i> one section.  It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug,
+</I>so
+&gt;<i> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> (this isn't pretty, but it looks to me like it is trying to make a STL
+</I>call
+&gt;<i> that doesn't exist)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> $ rpm -q gcc
+</I>&gt;<i> gcc-2.96-85
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d'
+</I>&gt;<i> /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile
+</I>c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/
+&gt;<i>
+</I>code/nel/src/3d -I../../include    -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/inclu
+de/s
+&gt;<i>
+</I>tlport   -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/
+X11R
+&gt;<i> 6/include -c tile_bank.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> rm -f .libs/tile_bank.lo
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d -I../../include -
+I/us
+&gt;<i>
+</I>r/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/include/stlport -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/s
+rc -
+&gt;<i>
+</I>Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/tile_bank.pp -
+c ti
+&gt;<i> le_bank.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/tile_bank.lo
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h: In method `void
+</I>&gt;<i> NLMISC::IStream::serialSTLContLen (T &amp;, int) [with T =
+</I>&gt;<i> _STL::set&lt;string, _STL::less&lt;string&gt;, _STL::allocator&lt;string&gt; &gt;]':
+</I>&gt;<i> tile_bank.cpp:616:   instantiated from here
+</I>&gt;<i> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h:570: no matching function for call to
+</I>&gt;<i> `_STL::set&lt;string, _STL::less&lt;string&gt;, _STL::allocator&lt;string&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;::insert (_STL::_Rb_tree_iterator&lt;string, _STL::_Const_traits&lt;string&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;)'
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:134: candidates are:
+</I>&gt;<i> _STL::pair&lt;typename _STL::_Rb_tree&lt;_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity&lt;_Tp&gt;,
+</I>&gt;<i> _Compare, _Alloc&gt;::const_iterator, bool&gt; _STL::set&lt;_Key, _Compare,
+</I>&gt;<i> _Alloc&gt;::insert (const _Key &amp;) [with _Key = string, _Compare =
+</I>&gt;<i> _STL::less&lt;string&gt;, _Alloc = _STL::allocator&lt;string&gt;]
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:139:                 typename
+</I>&gt;<i> _STL::_Rb_tree&lt;_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity&lt;_Tp&gt;, _Compare,
+</I>&gt;<i> _Alloc&gt;::const_iterator _STL::set&lt;_Key, _Compare, _Alloc&gt;::insert
+</I>&gt;<i> (typename _STL::_Rb_tree&lt;_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity&lt;_Tp&gt;, _Compare,
+</I>&gt;<i> _Alloc&gt;::const_iterator, const _Key &amp;) [with _Key = string, _Compare =
+</I>&gt;<i> _STL::less&lt;string&gt;, _Alloc = _STL::allocator&lt;string&gt;]
+</I>&gt;<i> make[1]: *** [tile_bank.lo] Error 1
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Also, I've put together a .spec file for making a STLport RPM.  If anyone
+</I>wants
+&gt;<i> it, just drop me a line.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Ed
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..251b44f2
--- /dev/null
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball client trouble</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:xordoquy%40aurora-linux.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000518.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000508.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowball client trouble</H1>
+    <B>Xavier Ordoquy</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:xordoquy%40aurora-linux.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowball client trouble">xordoquy@aurora-linux.com</A><BR>
+    <I>13 Jul 2001 12:23:08 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#507">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2
+When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet
+size.
+I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't
+connect it and tries to reach the default serveur.
+How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg
+file ?)
+
+Thanks.
+
+-- 
+ Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux
+ If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question.
+ Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does.
+                              (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9a86eca2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball client trouble</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000507.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000510.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowball client trouble</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowball client trouble">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:48:31 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#508">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#508">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Xavier,
+
+I think you should try to install it on NT ;-) nice signature
+
+Snowballs 0.2 is really deprecated and you should wait the next week for
+Snowball 2!
+
+Anyway, it's in the client.cfg file that you specify where the server is:
+LSHost = &quot;localhost&quot;;
+If you put this in the client.cfg, the client will connect to your localhost
+login system
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Xavier Ordoquy&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:xordoquy@aurora-linux.com">xordoquy@aurora-linux.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:23 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball client trouble
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2
+</I>&gt;<i> When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet
+</I>&gt;<i> size.
+</I>&gt;<i> I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't
+</I>&gt;<i> connect it and tries to reach the default serveur.
+</I>&gt;<i> How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg
+</I>&gt;<i> file ?)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i>  Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux
+</I>&gt;<i>  If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question.
+</I>&gt;<i>  Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does.
+</I>&gt;<i>                               (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..dc7edaf9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html
@@ -0,0 +1,154 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] www.nevrax.org down</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000510.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000512.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] www.nevrax.org down">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:52:18 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#511">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thanks for the message.
+For info, the server is up and we have access to the outside world so I'm
+not quite sure what's goign on.
+Colt is our ISP - we're following it up.
+
+Regards
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of
+<A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>
+Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:00 PM
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+When i ping it i get:
+Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+
+When i traceroute i get:
+pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+9.447 ms
+  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+43.382 ms
+   48.619 ms
+  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+  45.381
+ms  48.53 ms
+  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+  52.145
+ms  60.492 ms
+11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+48.3 ms
+12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+  55.997
+ms
+13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+53.683 ms
+   47.798 ms
+14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+69.684 ms
+  59.31 ms
+15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+ms  93.71
+3 ms
+16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+ms  81.68
+2 ms
+18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+85.816 ms
+19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms
+100.501 ms
+20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+115.294 ms
+21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+ms  135
+.302 ms
+22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+116.263 m
+s
+23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+ms  132
+.275 ms
+24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+131.91 ms
+25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+ms  143
+.39 ms
+26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+142.631 m
+s
+27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+ms  160
+.689 ms
+28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+158.716 m
+s
+29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+ms  175
+.634 ms
+30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+174.412 ms
+
+It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between
+relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+
+/David
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..08b37bc6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html
@@ -0,0 +1,151 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] www.nevrax.org down</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000511.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000513.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</H1>
+    <B>Brenden Towey</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] www.nevrax.org down">brenden@rcsis.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:02:18 -0700</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#512">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#512">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com).
+
+I didn't get a traceroute...
+
+Brenden
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> &lt;<A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>&gt;
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+&gt;<i>I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+</I>&gt;<i>When i ping it i get:
+</I>&gt;<i>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>When i traceroute i get:
+</I>&gt;<i>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+</I>&gt;<i>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+</I>&gt;<i>  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>9.447 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+</I>&gt;<i>  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>43.382 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>   48.619 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  45.381
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  48.53 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  52.145
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  60.492 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+</I>&gt;<i>48.3 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  55.997
+</I>&gt;<i>ms
+</I>&gt;<i>13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>53.683 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>   47.798 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>69.684 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  59.31 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  93.71
+</I>&gt;<i>3 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  81.68
+</I>&gt;<i>2 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>85.816 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms 
+</I>&gt;<i>100.501 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>115.294 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  135
+</I>&gt;<i>.302 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>116.263 m
+</I>&gt;<i>s
+</I>&gt;<i>23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  132
+</I>&gt;<i>.275 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>131.91 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  143
+</I>&gt;<i>.39 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>142.631 m
+</I>&gt;<i>s
+</I>&gt;<i>27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  160
+</I>&gt;<i>.689 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>158.716 m
+</I>&gt;<i>s
+</I>&gt;<i>29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  175
+</I>&gt;<i>.634 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>174.412 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between 
+</I>&gt;<i>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+</I>&gt;<i>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>/David
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>_______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i>Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0141dad6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html
@@ -0,0 +1,171 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] www.nevrax.org down</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000512.html">
+   
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] www.nevrax.org down">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:36:40 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thanks for the info.
+If anyone else has trouble it would be much appreciated if you could let us
+know.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel
+
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of
+Brenden Towey
+Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:02 AM
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com).
+
+I didn't get a traceroute...
+
+Brenden
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> &lt;<A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>&gt;
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+&gt;<i>I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+</I>&gt;<i>When i ping it i get:
+</I>&gt;<i>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>When i traceroute i get:
+</I>&gt;<i>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+</I>&gt;<i>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+</I>&gt;<i>  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>9.447 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+</I>&gt;<i>  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>43.382 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>   48.619 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  45.381
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  48.53 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  52.145
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  60.492 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+</I>&gt;<i>48.3 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  55.997
+</I>&gt;<i>ms
+</I>&gt;<i>13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>53.683 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>   47.798 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>69.684 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>  59.31 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  93.71
+</I>&gt;<i>3 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  81.68
+</I>&gt;<i>2 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>85.816 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>100.501 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>115.294 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  135
+</I>&gt;<i>.302 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>116.263 m
+</I>&gt;<i>s
+</I>&gt;<i>23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  132
+</I>&gt;<i>.275 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>131.91 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  143
+</I>&gt;<i>.39 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>142.631 m
+</I>&gt;<i>s
+</I>&gt;<i>27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  160
+</I>&gt;<i>.689 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>158.716 m
+</I>&gt;<i>s
+</I>&gt;<i>29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+</I>&gt;<i>ms  175
+</I>&gt;<i>.634 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>174.412 ms
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between
+</I>&gt;<i>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+</I>&gt;<i>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>/David
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>_______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i>Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..85413bdf
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html
@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball 2.0?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000516.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000518.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowball 2.0?">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:14:50 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Tony,
+
+&gt;<i> I'm curious as to the progress of SnowBall and it's compatability with
+</I>&gt;<i> the latest version of nel.
+</I>
+The Snowball is out of date. It doesn't compile with NeL since we change lot
+of things in the user interface. We (Cedric Valignat, Benjamin Legros and I)
+work on the new snowball called Snowballs2. In this version, we rewrite
+everything from scratch (except lens flare and radar) with the current NeL
+interface. There's a simple (14 cpp files) client explain how to use NeL.
+It uses lot of stuffs from NeL like Particule system, Animation, Skeleton,
+Skinning, Landscape, Collision, Network, etc...
+So it will be a good tutorial or starting point to use NeL.
+We plan to release it soon (before the end of the next week) and we actually
+work on the server side and 3d datas integration.
+
+&gt;<i> Has the team stableized things in the
+</I>&gt;<i> interface to a point where a new version could be done or should we see
+</I>&gt;<i> more inteface re-defineing changes in the future that could strongly
+</I>&gt;<i> affect any projects desired to be based off of it?
+</I>
+The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We
+plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current
+user interface doesn't change often anyway.
+
+&gt;<i>   Also, how's the progress on the 3d rendering engine?  At home I have a
+</I>&gt;<i> p3 800 but only a tnt2 ultra video card with 32mb ram.  Will nel
+</I>&gt;<i> eventually be developed to support that weak a model of graphics card?
+</I>
+&gt;<i> At least there should be some options of disableing a lot of 'special
+</I>&gt;<i> affects' to help speed up the game in question.  And we all know that it
+</I>&gt;<i> should be able to deal with 100 active actors on screen at one time.
+</I>&gt;<i> (Stress test)  But how possable does that look in the near future?
+</I>
+I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..561c12f3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html
@@ -0,0 +1,72 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball 2.0?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000517.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000507.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</H1>
+    <B>Tony Hoyt</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowball 2.0?">ahoyt@packetport.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:43:46 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vianney Lecroart wrote: 
+
+  I've read some of the logs to this newsgroup so I knew about the
+issues with the current SnowBall.  I would like to give NEL a try but I
+was hopeing a more full version example would help me more :-) But yes,
+i'll look at the tutorials some more to see how this sdk works.
+
+&gt;<i> The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We
+</I>&gt;<i> plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current
+</I>&gt;<i> user interface doesn't change often anyway.
+</I>
+  I'm a little confused here.  Basicly what I want to know is, if I
+write code for nel now, how strong is the possablity of me having to
+re-write that code to take into the count of changes in function
+definitions?  now i know the code must evolve and change, but if I start
+writing an application with the sdk, and every two months i need to make
+major revisions to keep up with the latest and greatest, I may pause
+some before starting development.  How possable is it to see a lock on
+the headers?
+ 
+&gt;<i> I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :)
+</I>
+  Also, anyone hear about this new technology Verant Interactive is
+going to be using for EQ1.5? (ie, the upcomeing expansion)  I hear it's
+supposed to help make online games work a hell of a lot faster.  But
+what is it?
+
+  Tony
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li>
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#518">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#518">[ thread ]</a>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0320d443
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,109 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-July Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 00:10:44 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 64<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="514"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="484"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="485"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="490"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="491"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="498"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="463"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="492"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="505"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="506"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="515"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="497"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="480"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="516"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="518"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="504"></A><I>Ed Landa</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="477"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="501"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="502"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="508"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="517"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="474"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="475"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</A> <A NAME="476"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="500"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="488"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="503"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="464"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="470"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="495"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="496"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="511"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="513"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="457"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="460"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="469"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="478"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="507"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="494"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="462"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="471"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="473"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="481"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="479"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="483"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="512"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="465"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="466"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="482"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="456"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="467"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="468"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="472"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="454"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="486"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="487"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="493"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="489"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="499"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="510"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="459"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="458"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="455"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="461"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b3fd8e2e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,109 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-July Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 00:10:44 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 64<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="454"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="455"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="456"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="457"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="458"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="459"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="460"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="461"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="462"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="463"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="464"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="465"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="466"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="467"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="468"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="469"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="470"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="471"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="472"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="473"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="474"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="475"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</A> <A NAME="476"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="477"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="478"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="479"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="480"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="481"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="482"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="483"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="484"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="485"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="486"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="487"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="488"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="489"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="490"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="491"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="492"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="493"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="494"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="495"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="496"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="497"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="498"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="499"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="500"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="501"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="502"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="503"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="504"></A><I>Ed Landa</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="505"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="506"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="507"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="508"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="510"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="511"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="512"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="513"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="514"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="515"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="516"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="517"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="518"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b1127deb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,221 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-July Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 00:10:44 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 64<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00993939044- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1364"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993939044-00993976343- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1366"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1367"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1372"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1378"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1379"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472-00994146708- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1380"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1381"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584-00994159869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1382"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994087256- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1377"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993975812- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1365"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993975812-00994006630- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1368"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994010505- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1369"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994010505-00994010890- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1370"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--1 00994010505-00994018077- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1371"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994061643- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1373"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<!--0 00994077143- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1374"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--0 00994079100- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1375"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--0 00994084962- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1376"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--0 00994230942- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1383"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994230942-00994250592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1385"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994248614- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="1384"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--0 00994251712- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</A> <A NAME="1386"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--0 00994340207- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1387"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994341613- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1389"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994341615- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1390"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1394"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1396"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1401"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044-00994442366- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1403"></A><I>Zane</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994341774- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1391"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994341774-00994344339- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1393"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994342487- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1392"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994345482- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1395"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1397"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307-00994416533- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1400"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994402499- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1398"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1411"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994832620- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1413"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1414"></A><I>Ed Landa</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994884321- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="1415"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994919520- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1416"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994408910- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1399"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994408910-00994440111- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1402"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994455166- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1404"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1406"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1407"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684-00994660029- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1409"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994672811- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1410"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994341567- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1388"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--0 00994600510- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1405"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994600510-00994618142- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1408"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994781935- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="1412"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994781935-00995377919- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1424"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1425"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1426"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1427"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890-00995546626- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1428"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00995016188- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1417"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00995016188-00995021311- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1418"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00995187624- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1420"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00995187624-00995302338- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1421"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00995335338- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1422"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00995335338-00995351800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1423"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d06f4599
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,109 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-July Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 00:10:44 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 64<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="455"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="458"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="459"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="460"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="461"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="464"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="454"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="456"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="465"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="474"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="463"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="466"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</A> <A NAME="476"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="473"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="475"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="505"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="504"></A><I>Ed Landa</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="506"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="502"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="514"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="515"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="495"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="498"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="516"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="517"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="518"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="507"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="508"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="457"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="462"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="467"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="468"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="469"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="470"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="471"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="472"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="477"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="478"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="479"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="480"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="481"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="482"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="484"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="485"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="486"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="487"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="488"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="489"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="490"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="491"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="492"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="493"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="494"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="496"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="497"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="499"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="500"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="501"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="503"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="510"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="511"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="512"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="513"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="483"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b1127deb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,221 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-July Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 00:10:44 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 64<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00993939044- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1364"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993939044-00993976343- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1366"></A><I>Debian User</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1367"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1372"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1378"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1379"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472-00994146708- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1380"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1381"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584-00994159869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1382"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994087256- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1377"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993975812- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1365"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993975812-00994006630- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1368"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994010505- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1369"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994010505-00994010890- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1370"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--1 00994010505-00994018077- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1371"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994061643- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1373"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<!--0 00994077143- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1374"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--0 00994079100- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1375"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--0 00994084962- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1376"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--0 00994230942- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1383"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994230942-00994250592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1385"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994248614- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="1384"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--0 00994251712- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL &amp; Nevrax</A> <A NAME="1386"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<!--0 00994340207- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1387"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994341613- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1389"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994341615- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1390"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1394"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1396"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1401"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044-00994442366- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1403"></A><I>Zane</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994341774- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1391"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994341774-00994344339- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1393"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994342487- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1392"></A><I>Dave Turner</I>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994345482- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1395"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1397"></A><I>Zane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307-00994416533- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1400"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994402499- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1398"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1411"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994832620- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1413"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1414"></A><I>Ed Landa</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994884321- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="1415"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994919520- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1416"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994408910- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1399"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994408910-00994440111- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1402"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00994340207-00994455166- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1404"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1406"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1407"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684-00994660029- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1409"></A><I>alfred</I>
+<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994672811- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1410"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994341567- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1388"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--0 00994600510- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1405"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994600510-00994618142- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1408"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00994781935- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="1412"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00994781935-00995377919- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1424"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1425"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1426"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1427"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890-00995546626- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1428"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00995016188- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1417"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00995016188-00995021311- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1418"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00995187624- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1420"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00995187624-00995302338- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1421"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00995335338- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1422"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00995335338-00995351800- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1423"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c481beee
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html
@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball for Win32</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000418.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowball for Win32</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowball for Win32">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:02:17 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#417">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#417">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#417">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#417">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball =
+demo application?=20
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)
+My Lab (<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish =
+a Win32=20
+version of the Snowball demo application? &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;--&lt;BR&gt;Valerio =
+Santinelli&lt;BR&gt;HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(&lt;A href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com"">http://www.hateseed.com&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com</A">http://www.hateseed.com&lt;/A</A>&gt;)&lt;BR&gt;In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it"">http://www.inflames.it&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it</A">http://www.inflames.it&lt;/A</A>&gt;)&lt;BR&gt;My Lab =
+(&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com"">http://tanis.hateseed.com&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com</A">http://tanis.hateseed.com&lt;/A</A>&gt;)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;=
+/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#417">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#417">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#417">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#417">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..77127d7a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html
@@ -0,0 +1,63 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball for Win32</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000417.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000420.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowball for Win32</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowball for Win32">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:28:52 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#418">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#418">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#418">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#418">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Valerio,
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+&gt;<i> Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball
+</I>&gt;<i> demo application? 
+</I>
+Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit.  We're planning to put
+together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D
+code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there
+we'll look at releasing a binary.  I hope this helps.
+
+Regards,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c1c97cc2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Itsalive is dead</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000420.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000421.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Itsalive is dead</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Itsalive is dead">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:21:45 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#419">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#419">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#419">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#419">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all,
+
+Itsalive decide to give up (due to a hardware problem).
+
+There'll be a new posting as soon as it's resurected.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+PS: Itsalive is our Snowballs server ...
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4e4a3284
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html
@@ -0,0 +1,83 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball for Win32</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000418.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000419.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Snowball for Win32</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Snowball for Win32">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:26:34 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#420">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#420">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I talked to Ace and I'll wait for the new version of Snowball to be
+released. Thanks :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A>
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Cedric Valignat&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:28 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball for Win32
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi Valerio,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; demo application?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit.  We're planning to
+</I>put
+&gt;<i> together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D
+</I>&gt;<i> code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there
+</I>&gt;<i> we'll look at releasing a binary.  I hope this helps.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Regards,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Cedric.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#420">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3f5401d0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Hello and a Question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000419.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000423.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Hello and a Question</H1>
+    <B>Alfred</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Hello and a Question">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:47:54 +1000</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#421">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#421">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#421">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#421">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hey guys,
+	My name is Alfred and my &quot;credentials&quot; are that I am the &quot;father&quot; of 
+admin mod (<A HREF="http://www.adminmod.org">http://www.adminmod.org</A>) along with being a devloper for some 
+other hl based mods (firearms for eg).
+	I work as a research engineer into tactical networks, so I have a fair 
+bit of experience with comms effects in harsh conditions (i.e the 
+general internet).
+
+	Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed 
+architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as 
+CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of 
+support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am 
+not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make 
+your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and 
+authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with.
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+<A HREF="mailto:alfred@mazuma.net.au">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2657f61d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html
@@ -0,0 +1,663 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] A bit of news</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000423.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000424.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] A bit of news</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] A bit of news">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:56:21 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#422">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#422">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+For anyone who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at
+Nevrax.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel.
+
+
+
+================================================
+NeL Development Team Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap
+================================================
+
+Summer 2001:
+============
+
+The teams are working hard on the technology code required for an important
+internal milestone, for the Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for
+next September.  The features listed under 'Coming Soon' (below) are on the
+todo list for the internal milestone and will become available through the
+summer.
+During this period much of the code is being developed under Windows 2000
+(predominantly AI and 3D) and is liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/
+Linux testing.
+Linux patches/ bug fixes will be readily accepted.
+
+
+Autumn 2001:
+============
+Once the internal milestone is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL
+development teams will be reduced and we will open up discussion about
+further direction, specification improvemens and so on.
+
+
+Snowballs:
+==========
+
+Snowballs is going to be re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the
+advancements and changes of direction in the NeL library since January.
+There'll be postings as development progresses.
+We intend to release a binary once the new code has been put together.
+
+
+Net:
+====
+
+Done so far:
+------------
+- Layer 0 (Data transfer layer) implementation
+- Layer 1 (Data block management layer) implementation
+- Layer 2 (Serialised data management layer) implementation
+- Layer 3 (Message management layer) implementation &amp; examples
+- Layer 4 (Inter-Service message addressing layer) implementation &amp; examples
+- The 'Service' Framework implementation &amp; examples
+- System services (Naming Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion,
+API &amp; examples
+- Login system (Stand alone program, client API) implementation &amp; samples
+
+In development:
+---------------
+- Shard Administration system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client)
+implementation
+- Improved debugging tools for services in a shard
+
+Coming Soon:
+------------
+- Backup Service
+- Account manager (stand alone)
+
+On the list for later:
+----------------------
+- Robustness testing and improvement (robustness to common attacks)
+- System stress testing and stressed performance improvement
+- Profiling and optimisation
+- Tuning of GNU/ Linux for NeL shard servers
+
+
+3D:
+===
+
+Done:
+-----
+- A basic sub set of the materials (missing bump mapping, etc)
+- Scenery rendering - Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise
+and water
+- Scenery rendering - Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based
+culling
+- Character and object animation and rendering with exception of IK
+- 3DSMax Plugins and exporters for generating the data for the above systems
+
+In development:
+---------------
+- Light maps for indoor scenes
+- A particle and effects engine
+
+Coming Soon:
+------------
+- Further materials
+- Multi resolution mesh support
+- Adaptive level of detail management system
+- Support for super-simplified meshes in the distance
+- Geometric noise in the landscape
+- The first version of the audio engine (low spec)
+- Portal based object culling for indoor scenes
+
+Coming Later:
+-------------
+- Water
+- Real time shadows (cast be characters and objects)
+- Blend shapes (also called morphing) - for things like facial animation
+- Further material types (bump maps, etc)
+- Inverse kinematics (a very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)
+- Dynamic lighting
+- A higher spec audio engine
+
+On the list for later:
+----------------------
+- Optimisation
+- Optimisation for NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)
+- Better model for generating low-detail MRM meshes
+
+
+PACS (Pathfinding And Collision System):
+========================================
+
+In develoment:
+--------------
+- System for generating collision and path finding information from outdoor
+scenery
+- Path finding system
+- Object/ Object collision system
+- Object/ Landscape collision system
+- System for adapting character and object positions to landscape
+tesselation
+
+Coming soon:
+------------
+- System for generating collision and path finding information for indoor
+scenery
+
+
+AI:
+===
+
+Done:
+-----
+- Distributed autonomous agent framework infrastructure
+- Run time agent definition scripting system
+- Tool set for creation of hard-coded agents
+- Finite state automaton plugin for agent framework
+- 'Operator' based action planning plugin for the agent framework
+
+In Development:
+---------------
+- Agent memory
+- 'Classifier' based learning plugin for teh agent framework
+- Priority and contribution management in operators
+
+
+Misc:
+=====
+
+Done so far:
+------------
+- A huge number of miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes,
+constants and functions that everybody at Nevrax swears by.
+Further development:
+- Development of the 'misc' library is chaotic - as little bits of
+functionality are written to left or right they tend to be added.
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
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+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
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+who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at=20
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+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
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+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN =
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+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
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+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
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+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
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+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;NeL =
+Development Team=20
+Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
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+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Summer =
+2001:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;The teams are =
+working hard=20
+on the technology code required for an important internal milestone, for =
+the=20
+Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for next September.&lt;SPAN=20
+style=3D&quot;mso-spacerun: yes&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/SPAN&gt;The features listed under =
+'Coming Soon'=20
+(below) are on the todo list for the internal milestone and will become=20
+available through the summer.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;During this =
+period much of=20
+the code is being developed under Windows 2000 (predominantly AI and 3D) =
+and is=20
+liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/ Linux testing. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Linux =
+patches/ bug fixes=20
+will be readily accepted.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Autumn =
+2001:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/F=
+ONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Once the =
+internal milestone=20
+is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL development teams will be =
+reduced=20
+and we will open up discussion about further direction, specification=20
+improvemens and so on.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;Snowballs:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/=
+DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Snowballs is =
+going to be=20
+re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the advancements and =
+changes of=20
+direction in the NeL library since January.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;There'll be =
+postings as=20
+development progresses.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;We intend to =
+release a=20
+binary once the new code has been put together.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;Net:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Done so =
+far:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Layer 0 =
+(Data transfer=20
+layer) implementation&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Layer 1 =
+(Data block=20
+management layer) implementation&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Layer 2 =
+(Serialised data=20
+management layer) implementation&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Layer 3 =
+(Message=20
+management layer) implementation &amp;amp; examples&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Layer 4 =
+(Inter-Service=20
+message addressing layer) implementation &amp;amp; examples&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- The =
+'Service' Framework=20
+implementation &amp;amp; examples&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- System =
+services (Naming=20
+Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion, API &amp;amp;=20
+examples&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Login =
+system (Stand alone=20
+program, client API) implementation &amp;amp; samples&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;In=20
+development:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;---------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Shard =
+Administration=20
+system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client) implementation=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Improved =
+debugging tools=20
+for services in a shard&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Coming =
+Soon:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Backup=20
+Service&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Account =
+manager (stand=20
+alone)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;On the list =
+for=20
+later:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;----------------------&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Robustness =
+testing and=20
+improvement (robustness to common attacks)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- System =
+stress testing and=20
+stressed performance improvement&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Profiling =
+and=20
+optimisation&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Tuning of =
+GNU/ Linux for=20
+NeL shard servers&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;3D:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;=3D=3D=3D&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;Done:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;-----&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- A basic sub =
+set of the=20
+materials (missing bump mapping, etc) &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Scenery =
+rendering -=20
+Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise and =
+water&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;- =
+Scenery rendering -=20
+Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based culling&lt;SPAN=20
+style=3D&quot;mso-spacerun: yes&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp; &lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Character =
+and object=20
+animation and rendering with exception of IK&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- 3DSMax =
+Plugins and=20
+exporters for generating the data for the above systems&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;In=20
+development:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;---------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Light maps =
+for indoor=20
+scenes&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- A particle =
+and effects=20
+engine&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Coming =
+Soon:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Further=20
+materials&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D&quot;mso-ansi-language: =
+FR&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;- Multi resolution mesh=20
+support&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Adaptive =
+level of detail=20
+management system&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Support for =
+
+super-simplified meshes in the distance&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Geometric =
+noise in the=20
+landscape&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- The first =
+version of the=20
+audio engine (low spec)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Portal =
+based object=20
+culling for indoor scenes&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Coming =
+Later:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;-------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- =
+Water&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Real time =
+shadows (cast=20
+be characters and objects)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Blend =
+shapes (also called=20
+morphing) - for things like facial animation&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Further =
+material types=20
+(bump maps, etc)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Inverse =
+kinematics (a=20
+very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Dynamic=20
+lighting&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- A higher =
+spec audio=20
+engine&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;On the list =
+for=20
+later:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;----------------------&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- =
+Optimisation&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- =
+Optimisation for=20
+NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Better =
+model for=20
+generating low-detail MRM meshes&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;PACS =
+(Pathfinding And=20
+Collision System):&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV=
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;In =
+develoment:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;--------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- System for =
+generating=20
+collision and path finding information from outdoor scenery&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Path =
+finding=20
+system&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D&quot;mso-ansi-language: =
+FR&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;- Object/ Object collision=20
+system&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Object/ =
+Landscape=20
+collision system&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- System for =
+adapting=20
+character and object positions to landscape tesselation&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Coming =
+soon:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;------------&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- System for =
+generating=20
+collision and path finding information for indoor scenery&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;AI:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;=3D=3D=3D&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;Done:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;-----&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Distributed =
+autonomous=20
+agent framework infrastructure&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Run time =
+agent definition=20
+scripting system&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Tool set =
+for creation of=20
+hard-coded agents &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Finite =
+state automaton=20
+plugin for agent framework&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- 'Operator' =
+based action=20
+planning plugin for the agent framework&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;In =
+Development&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;:&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;---------------&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Agent =
+memory&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- =
+'Classifier' based=20
+learning plugin for teh agent framework&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Priority =
+and contribution=20
+management in operators&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;Misc:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; =
+size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Done so =
+far:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001&gt;&lt;FONT =
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;=20
+size=3D2&gt;------------&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- A huge =
+number of=20
+miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes, constants and =
+functions=20
+that everybody at Nevrax swears by.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;Further=20
+development:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot; size=3D2&gt;- Development =
+of the 'misc'=20
+library is chaotic - as little bits of functionality are written to left =
+or=20
+right they tend to be added.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV class=3DMsoNormal&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT=20
+face=3D&quot;Courier =
+New&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..aaddac09
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html
@@ -0,0 +1,73 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Hello and a Question</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000421.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000422.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Hello and a Question</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Hello and a Question">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:35:16 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#423">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#423">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#423">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#423">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed
+</I>&gt;<i> architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as
+</I>&gt;<i> CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of
+</I>&gt;<i> support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am
+</I>&gt;<i> not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make
+</I>&gt;<i> your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and
+</I>&gt;<i> authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with.
+</I>
+As you point out, DCOM isn't portable so we ruled it out :)
+As for CORBA: Having worked a fair bit with it while at college, I concluded
+that it lacked some of the functionality that we wanted. For example, we can
+have several instances of the same service running simultaneously on our
+shard and the naming service can either return us a list of all of them or
+select the least loaded one (which CORBA cannot do). What's more, we found
+that CORBA was excessively heavy for our requirements, which only require a
+corner of the system. Our naming service only took a couple of days to
+develop and remains entirely open to expansion, adaptation or tuning to keep
+up with NeL's evolving needs.
+
+We looked in depth into the ACE and TAO library (Real-time CORBA with TAO
+(The ACE ORB)). The webpage seems down www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html,
+but the lib is absolutely huge... one hour at least of compilation. We
+didn't want to be dependent on such a large library just for a naming
+service and a communication protocol.
+
+Regards,
+Vianney
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#423">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e0575a2e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html
@@ -0,0 +1,56 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000424.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000426.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:35:43 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#425">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#425">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#425">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#425">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Within Nevrax we are planning to develop clients for Linux (tested on PCs)
+and Microsoft Windows.  This said, we will be happy to provide support to
+anyone who feels like porting it to Mac OS X or any other platform.
+
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+&gt;<i>The game will still be available for Mac OS X,  Linux, and maybe even other
+</I>&gt;<i>operating systems, correct?  After all, the user could just compile the
+</I>&gt;<i>sources and buy the game at a store with the data files and play it on his
+</I>&gt;<i>system of choice.
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A></li>
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#425">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#425">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#425">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#425">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f51e9a5a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html
@@ -0,0 +1,130 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000425.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000427.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:22:02 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#426">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#426">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#426">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#426">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+
+Network
+-------
+
+- Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers.
+  The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages
+  have been processed.
+
+- Improved responsiveness of API for naming service
+  Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming
+  service.  They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered
+  with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the
+  API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses.
+
+- The message type compression has been dissabled
+  An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that
+  were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32
+  value could be sent in place of the string.
+  This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has
+  been removed.
+  An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later.
+
+- New example for using 'login system'
+  It can be found in the samples directory
+
+- Improved performance of log messages
+  Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+  numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+
+- On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+  performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+  console &quot;DOS&quot; (commite la semaine prochaine)
+
+- New debugging aid
+  There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in
+  situation and for playing back the input to the same application running
+  stand alone.  This allows the application to be traced, etc.
+  The system will go up on CVS within the next few days
+
+
+PACS
+----
+
+- First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only
+  at the moment.
+
+
+3D
+--
+
+- The header file have moved!
+  The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their
+  respective source files)
+  The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d
+
+- System for generating object positions on the landscape completed
+  This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position
+  within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch
+  tesselation.  Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground
+  regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at.
+
+- In development...
+  Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the
+  editor for the particle system are in development.
+
+
+Audio
+-----
+
+- Work is starting on the audio library.
+  During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and
+  a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL
+  diver in the autumn.
+
+
+AI
+--
+
+- Silence from the AI team
+  The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now.  There will be
+  little news from them for a few months
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#426">[ date ]</a>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e5549606
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000426.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000428.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:32:40 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#427">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#427">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#427">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#427">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Cedric Valignat wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - Improved performance of log messages
+</I>&gt;<i>   Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+</I>&gt;<i>   numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+</I>&gt;<i>   performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+</I>&gt;<i>   console &quot;DOS&quot; (commite la semaine prochaine)
+</I>
+Damn ! the preceding sentences are the french translation about the &quot;Improved
+performance of log messages&quot; ... sorry about that.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#427">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fe9c6a19
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html
@@ -0,0 +1,149 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000427.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000429.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1>
+    <B>Alfred</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:48:35 +1000</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it 
+automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This 
+doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server 
+has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially 
+over high latency links).
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Network
+</I>&gt;<i> -------
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers.
+</I>&gt;<i>   The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages
+</I>&gt;<i>   have been processed.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - Improved responsiveness of API for naming service
+</I>&gt;<i>   Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming
+</I>&gt;<i>   service.  They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered
+</I>&gt;<i>   with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the
+</I>&gt;<i>   API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - The message type compression has been dissabled
+</I>&gt;<i>   An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that
+</I>&gt;<i>   were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32
+</I>&gt;<i>   value could be sent in place of the string.
+</I>&gt;<i>   This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has
+</I>&gt;<i>   been removed.
+</I>&gt;<i>   An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - New example for using 'login system'
+</I>&gt;<i>   It can be found in the samples directory
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - Improved performance of log messages
+</I>&gt;<i>   Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+</I>&gt;<i>   numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+</I>&gt;<i>   performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+</I>&gt;<i>   console &quot;DOS&quot; (commite la semaine prochaine)
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - New debugging aid
+</I>&gt;<i>   There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in
+</I>&gt;<i>   situation and for playing back the input to the same application running
+</I>&gt;<i>   stand alone.  This allows the application to be traced, etc.
+</I>&gt;<i>   The system will go up on CVS within the next few days
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> PACS
+</I>&gt;<i> ----
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only
+</I>&gt;<i>   at the moment.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 3D
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - The header file have moved!
+</I>&gt;<i>   The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their
+</I>&gt;<i>   respective source files)
+</I>&gt;<i>   The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - System for generating object positions on the landscape completed
+</I>&gt;<i>   This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position
+</I>&gt;<i>   within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch
+</I>&gt;<i>   tesselation.  Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground
+</I>&gt;<i>   regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - In development...
+</I>&gt;<i>   Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the
+</I>&gt;<i>   editor for the particle system are in development.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Audio
+</I>&gt;<i> -----
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - Work is starting on the audio library.
+</I>&gt;<i>   During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and
+</I>&gt;<i>   a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL
+</I>&gt;<i>   diver in the autumn.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> AI
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - Silence from the AI team
+</I>&gt;<i>   The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now.  There will be
+</I>&gt;<i>   little news from them for a few months
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+<A HREF="mailto:alfred@mazuma.net.au">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:10:07 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#429">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+
+&gt;<i> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+</I>&gt;<i> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+</I>&gt;<i> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+</I>&gt;<i> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+</I>&gt;<i> over high latency links).
+</I>
+
+Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:47:37 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this:
+
+- The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means
+that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy
+service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :)
+
+- This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on
+the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service.
+(in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login
+service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory
+showing how this works)
+
+- So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game
+servers.  It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at
+address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'.
+These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the
+other services that they can talk to.
+
+- In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very
+high frequency event.
+
+I hope this helps.
+
+Daniel.
+
+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------
+Hello,
+
+
+&gt;<i> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+</I>&gt;<i> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+</I>&gt;<i> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+</I>&gt;<i> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+</I>&gt;<i> over high latency links).
+</I>
+
+Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:33:30 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#431">[ author ]</a>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>It makes sense.
+Thank you.
+
+Thursday, June 21, 2001, 6:47:37 PM, you wrote:
+
+DM&gt; To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this:
+
+DM&gt; - The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means
+DM&gt; that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy
+DM&gt; service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :)
+
+DM&gt; - This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on
+DM&gt; the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service.
+DM&gt; (in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login
+DM&gt; service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory
+DM&gt; showing how this works)
+
+DM&gt; - So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game
+DM&gt; servers.  It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at
+DM&gt; address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'.
+DM&gt; These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the
+DM&gt; other services that they can talk to.
+
+DM&gt; - In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very
+DM&gt; high frequency event.
+
+DM&gt; I hope this helps.
+
+DM&gt; Daniel.
+
+
+DM&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------
+DM&gt; Hello,
+
+
+&gt;&gt;<i> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> over high latency links).
+</I>
+
+DM&gt; Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+DM&gt; game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+DM&gt; services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+DM&gt; regards,
+
+DM&gt; Vianney Lecroart
+
+DM&gt; _______________________________________________
+DM&gt; Nel mailing list
+DM&gt; <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+DM&gt; <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..cf025ff5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000441.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000433.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:08:48 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D
+library:
+The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards
+compatible beyond versions 6.  This means that you may need to re-generate
+your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them.
+
+Regards to all
+Daniel.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000432.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000434.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:55:25 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL,
+except those at Nevrax themselves?
+
+It would be a good idea to keep the nevrax.org homepage updated with news
+like this one and with some more documentation in order to get people
+started on how the overall system works. Nowaday the only real documentation
+is the one about the Network library which is good but it's not enough.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A>
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Daniel Miller&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:miller@nevrax.com">miller@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:08 PM
+Subject: [Nel] .shape file format change
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D
+</I>&gt;<i> library:
+</I>&gt;<i> The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards
+</I>&gt;<i> compatible beyond versions 6.  This means that you may need to re-generate
+</I>&gt;<i> your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Regards to all
+</I>&gt;<i> Daniel.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..aa1f0d9a
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@@ -0,0 +1,78 @@
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+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000433.html">
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:43:05 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#434">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL,
+</I>&gt;<i> except those at Nevrax themselves?
+</I>
+&gt;<i>From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in
+</I>the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and
+crossp-platform development.
+
+The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs.
+However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life...
+For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a
+bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting
+the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should
+also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game
+development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know
+this is not easy.
+
+NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application
+framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will
+surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could
+also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about
+NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from
+a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job
+would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful
+audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract
+and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea
+indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile
+NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :)
+'NeL-sdk', ready to code ...
+
+Enough said, let's checkout that CVS !
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..74ff9c1d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html
@@ -0,0 +1,124 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000434.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000436.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1>
+    <B>Daniel Miller</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:01:25 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#435">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I was just drafting a reply to Valerio Santinelli's mail when this one
+turned up, so I guess I'm replying to both postings at once.
+
+First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and
+doesn't show what's going on at the moment.  Sorry about that.  We're just
+sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily.
+There should be a general improvement at this level soon.
+
+For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a
+loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time soon.
+I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if
+it doesn't.
+
+On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features' documents
+under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would
+be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs
+would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome although
+our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem
+with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an
+entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(.
+I'll see what I can do.
+
+Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and less
+like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied
+together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line
+shortly...
+
+For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :)
+
+Regards to all
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:43 PM
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] .shape file format change
+
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on
+</I>NeL,
+&gt;<i> except those at Nevrax themselves?
+</I>
+&gt;<i>From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in
+</I>the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and
+crossp-platform development.
+
+The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs.
+However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life...
+For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a
+bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting
+the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should
+also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game
+development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know
+this is not easy.
+
+NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application
+framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will
+surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could
+also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about
+NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from
+a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job
+would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful
+audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract
+and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea
+indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile
+NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :)
+'NeL-sdk', ready to code ...
+
+Enough said, let's checkout that CVS !
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2e0366a1
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html
@@ -0,0 +1,121 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000435.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000437.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1>
+    <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"
+       TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:41:58 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Daniel Miller&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:miller@nevrax.com">miller@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:01 PM
+
+&gt;<i> First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and
+</I>&gt;<i> doesn't show what's going on at the moment.  Sorry about that.  We're just
+</I>&gt;<i> sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily.
+</I>&gt;<i> There should be a general improvement at this level soon.
+</I>
+I spoke to Lecroart about this point. I think that keeping the site up to
+date at least once a week wouldn't require a great effort. I'm not asking
+you to report on the news page every single change that happens upon the
+codebase. Just some generic news about what's going on in order to know that
+the project is still alive.
+
+&gt;<i> For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a
+</I>&gt;<i> loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time
+</I>soon.
+&gt;<i> I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if
+</I>&gt;<i> it doesn't.
+</I>
+The roadmap you posted last week has been greatly appreciated on my part. :)
+I hope that you can keep sending those once every one or two weeks ;)
+
+&gt;<i> On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features'
+</I>documents
+&gt;<i> under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would
+</I>&gt;<i> be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs
+</I>&gt;<i> would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome
+</I>although
+&gt;<i> our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem
+</I>&gt;<i> with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an
+</I>&gt;<i> entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(.
+</I>&gt;<i> I'll see what I can do.
+</I>
+I've just looked at the new docs. I'm going to print them all and read them
+with ease later on during those lonely nights :)
+
+I'm not going to ask you to write a &quot;how to design and build a MMORPG&quot; book.
+That's out of our scope. If I'm evaluating NeL, it's because I am already
+designing an MMORPG and I'm evaluating a framework that would reduce the
+efforts needed to code all the game from grounds up.
+The kind of documentation that I'm looking for in the future is something
+that gives an overview of how the pieces of the NeL framework are tied
+together, and then, some more indeep documentation about how to build a new
+3D entity, how to make a connection to the server and all those things that
+explain what objects should be used and which method should be called to
+accomplish the main operations.
+
+&gt;<i> Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and
+</I>less
+&gt;<i> like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied
+</I>&gt;<i> together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line
+</I>&gt;<i> shortly...
+</I>
+I'm not pressing you to make a new Snowballs in no time. You've got all the
+time you need (I know that I have no influence over this, anyway :))
+I just wish that the new Snowballs will show how to write a basic server and
+a basic client, and how to code the main functions needed to make them both
+run with each other. That's enough to get started with coding upon NeL.
+
+&gt;<i> For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :)
+</I>
+I agree on this one. A binary SDK would save a lot of compiling-time which
+is mainly unneeded.
+
+Having an offline version of the code documentation without going over the
+doxygen compilation time (which took a hour or maybe more on my Athlon)
+would also be useful once the code is in a fairly stable condition.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..86ced898
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000436.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000438.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:39:59 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#437">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#437">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#437">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Slight troubles :
+
+- bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with
+'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working)
+
+- stuck here :
+
+make[4]: Entering directory `/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl'
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include -O3
+-I/home/zerodeux/code/pngl/STLport-0619/stlport -I./src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/driver_opengl.pp -c driver_opengl.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o
+.libs/driver_opengl.lo
+In file included from driver_opengl.cpp:48:
+driver_opengl.h:51: 3d/driver.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:52: 3d/material.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:53: 3d/shader.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:54: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:50: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:51: 3d/light.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:52: 3d/primitive_block.h: No such file or directory
+
+The &quot;-I./src&quot; should be &quot;-I../../../../src&quot; ...
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3792a1ae
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html
@@ -0,0 +1,78 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000437.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000439.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:23:11 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#438">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#438">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Vincent,
+
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+&gt;<i> Slight troubles :
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> - bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with
+</I>&gt;<i> 'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working)
+</I>
+This afternoon, i commited a new bootstrap which do the touvh is the ChangeLog
+is missing ... so no more annoying complain from automake :-)
+
+&gt;<i> - stuck here :
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> The &quot;-I./src&quot; should be &quot;-I../../../../src&quot; ...
+</I>
+I tried to setup that in the configure.in file and its works properly when
+using VPATH to compile NeL (thing that do do at nevrax to be able to have a
+debug and a release version of NeL in the same time and based on the same
+source). But that doesn't work in a &quot;normal&quot; compilation setup :-(
+
+I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly
+i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+PS: The external CVS will updated tonigth ...
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+   <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:35:24 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Cedric Valignat wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly
+</I>&gt;<i> i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ...
+</I>
+No pb, I'm just a bug hunter ... :)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] culling and transforms</H1>
+    <B>stephane.craux@voila.fr</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] culling and transforms">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:21:16 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi ,
+I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and
+noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing
+the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the
+view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly :
+I didn't check if this choice was relevant : is it really ?
+
+Ho , it dosn't seem to me that nel network code provides
+peer2peer networked comm : Am I right ?
+Isn't it a nice solution to very large multi-user environments ?
+
+Great job anyway 
+
+Stephane
+
+
+
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+<A HREF="http://mail.voila.fr">http://mail.voila.fr</A>
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>Yann Morvan</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40ens-lyon.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:57:00 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hullo,
+I've been following the development of NEL for
+some time, I haven't been contributing due to lack
+of spare time, but I wanted to congratulate the
+Nel team for their idea and work.
+
+However, I have one major concern with the licence mecanism.
+Indeed, your idea is that what the people will pay for in
+games based upon Nel is content and not code. Saying this, you 
+implicitly state that content and code are completely distinct things.
+It is true for the most part (graphics, sounds, AI scripts, background,
+plots etc),
+but I can't convince myself that it applies to the rules of the game,
+for I can't help to think that for efficiency matters they should be 
+hardcoded in the different services. (The reason being that because of
+their level of abstraction, using a scripting mechanism would be terribly
+painful and would require a design of the services architecture allowing
+for total flexibility).
+
+I played Ultima Online for 3 years, I read the rantings of lum the mad
+daily, I read the dev boards of currently in development MMORPGs, I'm
+aware of the specificities of the &quot;big three&quot; and all this leads
+me to the conclusion that the rules (i.e. economy system, combat system,
+advancement system etc) are a part of the content at least as important
+as the rest regarding a game's interest (I wouldn't be willing to
+create a MMORPG if I wasn't utterly frustrated by the current trends
+in those games). 
+
+Therefore, while I totaly agree that any improvment
+or further development of Nel's features should be shared, I'd
+like you to reassure me about the protection of one's rule system
+in your design philosophy.
+
+Sorry for this long mail and for reviving this probably old and well
+debated issue :)
+
+	Yann
+
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:25:55 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Then you take the GPL game rules on the other side of the API, delete
+</I>&gt;<i> them,
+</I>&gt;<i> and write your totally new rules, using only the API.  Tah da, they are
+</I>&gt;<i> yours, and you don't have to release your code to anyone.  The game
+</I>&gt;<i> rules
+</I>&gt;<i> are a separate binary (library, .o file) just like the game data.  Use
+</I>&gt;<i> dynamically linked libraries if you want more separation.  (But I'm
+</I>&gt;<i> pretty
+</I>&gt;<i> sure that when compiling proprietary apps (see below) under GNU/Linux,
+</I>&gt;<i> at
+</I>&gt;<i> least some GPL code gets bound directly in.  Also, the concept of
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;contamination&quot; my apply, but hey, we are talking a GAME here.  Do you
+</I>&gt;<i> really think anyone is going to bother suing you?  Unlikely I think. )
+</I>
+You are totally wrong...
+Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+
+What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+
+And yes you will be sued... you are using the work of thousand of people and you 
+can't share a few stupid lines of code!?!?!?!... 
+
+&gt;<i> This is the same as developing proprietary apps on GNU/Linux.  GNU/Linux
+</I>&gt;<i> provides a public, GPL'd API, but the app you write that interfaces to
+</I>&gt;<i> that API is totally your own.
+</I>
+You are wrong again...
+&gt;<i>From what I understood by a mail from FSF, the only way you have to skip GPL is:
+</I>1) Get a License from Nel.
+2) Code the whole client under a different license. Unless the Net protocol is 
+propietary... that I think it is not the case.
+
+ 
+&gt;<i> (I'm pretty sure that when compiling proprietary apps under GNU/Linux,
+</I>&gt;<i> at
+</I>&gt;<i> least some GPL code gets bound directly in, though this doesn't seem to
+</I>&gt;<i> bother anyone.  Also, the concept of &quot;contamination&quot; may apply, but hey,
+</I>&gt;<i> we
+</I>&gt;<i> are talking a GAME here.  Do you really think anyone is going to bother
+</I>&gt;<i> suing you for GPL license violation?  Unlikely I think, unless you
+</I>&gt;<i> really do
+</I>&gt;<i> overtly violate the license. )
+</I>
+No, it is not the same... Please ask a lawyer about it, he will explain it more 
+clearly that I can.
+
+IMO if someone violate even a bit the license i set, I will sue him.
+
+Regards.
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>Yann Morvan</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:59:51 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Well, while explaining his mistakes to Brenden,
+you didn't adress my point, which is this:
+Though EQ has better graphics and better written
+network code than UO, I preffer UO because of its rules,
+which yet are hardcoded. 
+
+If it is not possible for me to use Nel
+(and share the technical improvments I may
+make) without being able to protect my set of game 
+rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel 
+library, being specific to my game), then you reduce
+content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer
+service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game
+for any gamer with an ounce of taste.
+ 
+So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+the library).
+
+	Yann
+
+P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+mere initial wealth.
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>elijah wright</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">elw@stderr.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:26:53 -0400 (EDT)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> You are totally wrong...
+</I>&gt;<i> Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+</I>&gt;<i> So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+</I>
+incorrect.  you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed
+libraries.  library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do
+not constitute &quot;extending&quot; GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as
+it is intended to be used.
+
+LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team
+could countenance dual-licensing any such &quot;rules API&quot; and releasing
+parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses.
+
+elijah
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Game Rules</H1>
+    <B>John Cosby</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jcosby%40gscyclone.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">jcosby@gscyclone.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:31:17 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+
+In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of a
+game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define gameplay
+cannot.
+
+This leads to an interesting notion when looking at making a game's source
+code public.  There is no legal protection for the rules themselves - the
+graphics, user interface, etc. may be protected, though.
+
+In this fashion, Nel seems to have a business model that will work, in that
+they will be charging to play on their servers using their bandwidth.  If
+the rules of the game are defined and implemented in source code, then those
+rules may be taken and adapted or reused.  If the rules of the game are
+implemented in libraries using a public API, then those may be &quot;protected&quot;
+in so far as the original source and documentation is not available,
+although anyone who wants to reverse-engineer (on the basis of behavior,
+given the licenses attached to EQ and UO) can come up with their own
+implementation of what they believe the game rules to be.
+
+All because I wanted to reimplement a game Prodigy let die, years and years
+ago....
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>stephane.craux@voila.fr</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:36:52 +0200</I>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+</I>&gt;<i> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+</I>&gt;<i> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+</I>&gt;<i> the library).
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> 	Yann
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+</I>&gt;<i> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+</I>&gt;<i> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+</I>&gt;<i> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+</I>&gt;<i> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+</I>&gt;<i> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+</I>&gt;<i> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+</I>&gt;<i> mere initial wealth.
+</I>
+I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one 
+of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century .
+
+Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is concerned, 
+and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software is 
+the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the ever 
+coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+those which don't provide source code .
+
+That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for individuals :
+releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get insights 
+about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source providers .
+
+Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to understand
+the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor entities
+- as far as software production is concerned - 
+I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global leverage tendance .
+
+The company I work for prohibits the reuse of GPL code and tends to minimize 
+the usage of LGPL ed source code : no need to ask a lawyer why , everybody
+will laugh at u if u ask and I think the boss is right here .
+Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable company 
+protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note 
+that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism died 
+out of realism ?
+
+Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever thought 
+that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable way of 
+thinking and only fools rush in .
+
+
+I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the GPL concept ,
+(I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) , but
+since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL detractors .
+Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+
+I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+but I don't think it will happen .
+
+Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't be there if not)
+
+Stephane Craux
+<A HREF="mailto:Stephane.Craux@voila.fr">Stephane.Craux@voila.fr</A>
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+<A HREF="http://mail.voila.fr">http://mail.voila.fr</A>
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Game Rules</H1>
+    <B>Yann Morvan</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:42:11 -0400</I>
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+<PRE>Ok John, thanks for your answer, I think 
+I have a more realist vision now:
+rules are too abstract to be protected in themselves
+and their implementation will be reverse-engineered
+if they are popular. 
+So all you have to do is give yourself the means to ensure that your
+game will be good enough to discourage people from trying to steal
+your players. Sounds like the hard, but honest way ...
+
+And Stephane, I don't think that free software is a joke,
+you know I even think that K. Marx had good ideas ...:)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+    <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:54:03 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> If it is not possible for me to use Nel
+</I>&gt;<i> (and share the technical improvments I may
+</I>&gt;<i> make) without being able to protect my set of game 
+</I>&gt;<i> rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel 
+</I>&gt;<i> library, being specific to my game), then you reduce
+</I>&gt;<i> content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer
+</I>&gt;<i> service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game
+</I>&gt;<i> for any gamer with an ounce of taste.
+</I>&gt;<i>  
+</I>&gt;<i> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+</I>&gt;<i> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+</I>&gt;<i> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+</I>&gt;<i> the library).
+</I>
+I am in no way related to Nel. 
+This is just my opinion as contributor of Open Source.
+
+But I think that you should fix the ethical conflict between using &quot;others&quot; GPL 
+code and asking them to protect &quot;your&quot; right for not sharing yours. :-/
+
+&gt;<i> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+</I>&gt;<i> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+</I>&gt;<i> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+</I>&gt;<i> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+</I>&gt;<i> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+</I>&gt;<i> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+</I>&gt;<i> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+</I>&gt;<i> mere initial wealth.
+</I>
+Once a american president, perhaps Abraham Lincon, told that a nation that give 
+away freedom to get security deserver nor freedom neither security.
+
+So this apply to Open Source, I think that freedom is soooo good that it worth 
+to risk to that to happen. And imagine that the case you told happen... you 
+would have shown world how good is Open Source that a Lame enterprise has decide 
+to use your code to make their game.
+
+Regards.
+
+[ Above is just my opinion, I don't ask you to understand it, not to agree with 
+me... ]
+
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+</pre>
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+    <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:27:03 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>Mensaje citado por: John Cosby &lt;<A HREF="mailto:jcosby@gscyclone.com">jcosby@gscyclone.com</A>&gt;:
+
+&gt;<i> I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of
+</I>&gt;<i> a
+</I>&gt;<i> game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+</I>&gt;<i> etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define
+</I>&gt;<i> gameplay
+</I>&gt;<i> cannot.
+</I>
+I am not a lawer... But you say &quot;the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted.&quot;
+Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k?
+So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic, 
+they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :)
+
+I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you 
+can copy right D&amp;D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy 
+right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :)
+
+Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to 
+patent it to. :-(
+
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+</pre>
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:45:21 -0700</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<PRE>By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service, we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification language in 
+their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should we release the server side code?
+
+michael warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+    <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:51:13 +0200 (MET DST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock &lt;<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>&gt;:
+
+&gt;<i> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of
+</I>&gt;<i> nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service,
+</I>&gt;<i> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why
+</I>&gt;<i> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider
+</I>&gt;<i> scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification
+</I>&gt;<i> language in 
+</I>&gt;<i> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at
+</I>&gt;<i> all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding
+</I>&gt;<i> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite
+</I>&gt;<i> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+</I>&gt;<i> we release the server side code?
+</I>
+I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+hard working on such a good project.
+
+IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+
+Regards,
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1>
+    <B>Yann Morvan</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:53:33 -0400</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#453">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#453">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#453">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#453">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Well, I think that the GPL, as opposed to LGPL,
+is much more strict than you think, I've taken a few minutes 
+to go and read it thoroughly and it is quite clear. 
+Besides, its very purpose is to lay legal grounds to defend
+the Free Software notion, so I think it is to be taken seriously,
+and in my opinion, it is a good thing.
+As for your scripting thing, I think we can devide rules in two
+categories:
+-global ones (&quot;when a character dies, he returns to his binding point&quot;)
+-detailed ones (&quot;the damage formula for the needle gun is
+log3(sqrt(z)-8x)&quot;)
+
+Like john said, the second ones will be reverse engineered (see the &quot;big
+three&quot;, whereas the first ones are so general that on one hand the idea of
+a patent on them is ridiculous (though I think some fool as tried to
+patent the whole MMOG or even PW concept) and on the other hand their
+scripting is difficult.
+ 
+So there is no point at protecting your rules.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li>
+	
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#453">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#453">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#453">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..11d2baab
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-June Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 37<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="421"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="428"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="424"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="434"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="437"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="439"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="446"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="423"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="429"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="422"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="425"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="430"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="432"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="435"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="441"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="444"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="448"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="453"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="417"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="420"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="433"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="436"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="431"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="442"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="418"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="419"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="426"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="427"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="438"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="451"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="440"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="447"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="445"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="443"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="449"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="450"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="452"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 01:09:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e9e4f69f
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-June Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 37<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="417"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="418"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="419"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="420"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="421"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="422"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="423"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="424"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="425"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="426"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="427"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="428"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="429"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="430"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="431"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="432"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="433"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="434"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="435"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="436"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="437"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="438"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="439"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="440"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="441"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="442"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="443"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="444"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="445"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="446"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="447"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="448"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="449"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="450"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="451"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="452"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="453"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 01:09:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9e020a7f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,151 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-June Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 37<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00992246537- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1327"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00992246537-00992269732- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1328"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00992246537-00992269732-00992424394- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1330"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00992420505- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="1329"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00992522874- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1331"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00992522874-00992622916- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1333"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00992616981- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1332"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--0 00992708948- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="1334"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<!--0 00992856943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1335"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--0 00993054122- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1336"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993054122-00993054760- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1337"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--1 00993054122-00993120515- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1338"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993054122-00993120515-00993121807- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1339"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993138457- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1340"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993138457-00993141210- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1341"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--1 00993138457-00993920220- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1351"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993654528- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1342"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993654528-00993707725- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1343"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1344"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1345"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285-00993735718- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1346"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993742799- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1347"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993742799-00993828191- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1348"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993742799-00993828191-00993828924- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1349"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993892876- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1350"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<!--0 00993922470- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1352"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993922470-00993925555- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1353"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1354"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591-00993934443- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1359"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993929213- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1355"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993933077- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1356"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993933077-00993933731- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1358"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--1 00993933077-00993936423- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1360"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993933412- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1357"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<!--0 00993937521- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1361"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993937521-00993937873- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1362"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<!--1 00993937521-00993938013- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1363"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 01:09:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..05ec7bbe
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,82 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-June Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 37<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="432"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="433"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="434"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="435"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="436"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="422"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="437"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="438"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="439"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="441"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="442"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="443"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="444"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="445"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="447"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="449"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="451"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="452"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="453"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="440"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="446"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="448"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="450"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="421"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="423"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="419"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="426"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="427"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="428"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="429"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="424"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="425"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="430"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="431"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="417"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="418"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="420"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 01:09:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9e020a7f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,151 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-June Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 37<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00992246537- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1327"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00992246537-00992269732- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1328"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00992246537-00992269732-00992424394- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1330"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00992420505- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="1329"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00992522874- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1331"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00992522874-00992622916- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1333"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00992616981- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1332"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--0 00992708948- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="1334"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<!--0 00992856943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1335"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--0 00993054122- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1336"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993054122-00993054760- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1337"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--1 00993054122-00993120515- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1338"></A><I>Alfred</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993054122-00993120515-00993121807- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1339"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993138457- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1340"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993138457-00993141210- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1341"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--1 00993138457-00993920220- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1351"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993654528- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1342"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993654528-00993707725- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1343"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1344"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1345"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I>
+<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285-00993735718- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1346"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993742799- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1347"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993742799-00993828191- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1348"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993742799-00993828191-00993828924- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1349"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993892876- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1350"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<!--0 00993922470- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1352"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993922470-00993925555- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1353"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1354"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591-00993934443- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1359"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993929213- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1355"></A><I>elijah wright</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993933077- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1356"></A><I>John Cosby</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993933077-00993933731- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1358"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+<!--1 00993933077-00993936423- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1360"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00993933412- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1357"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I>
+<!--0 00993937521- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1361"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00993937521-00993937873- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1362"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I>
+<!--1 00993937521-00993938013- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1363"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul  1 01:09:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000310.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000310.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..18f83e4d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000310.html
@@ -0,0 +1,77 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000311.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:39:53 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000311.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#310">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#310">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#310">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#310">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:28:15PM -0800, <A HREF="mailto:robert@paradox.got.net">robert@paradox.got.net</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> Hello,
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I too am hoping to get snowballs running on a Debian/GNU Linux
+</I>&gt;<i> machine.  I too have run into the error message mentioned in the
+</I>&gt;<i> title.  I'd love to see a patch for it.  So far I've traced it down to
+</I>&gt;<i> a call to setupTexture which is exiting the program.  My C++ skills
+</I>&gt;<i> are not strong enough to hunt this down any further.
+</I>cut'n'paste from one of my previous emails :) :
+        the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about
+          being unable to load file &quot;data/&quot;. Managed to eventually track
+          it down to some of the texture loading code in
+          code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse 
+          texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == &quot;&quot; though
+          the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked   
+          out yet why it's decided that the textName is &quot;&quot; (it's too
+          late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == &quot;&quot;
+          and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+If you still can't get it to work, give me an email and I can probably 
+send you a patch. (This code itself looks like it's correct behaviour,
+the problem is with whatever's feeding this with files to load. My 'fix'
+is a workaround until i get the time to trace where it's getting fed
+from. )
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000311.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#310">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#310">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#310">[ author ]</a>
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000312.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000312.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..524f462f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000312.html
@@ -0,0 +1,63 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compile error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nel%40elwar.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000320.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000321.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compile error</H1>
+    <B>nel@elwar.com</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40elwar.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compile error">nel@elwar.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:49:50 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000320.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000321.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I've been trying to get the client to compile and I've gotten through
+quite a bit as far as installing freetype and stlport and getting
+a satisfied configuration. I'm running it on Linux but I get the
+following error:
+
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/nel/code/nel/include -I/home/nel/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o sight.o lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/nel/code/nel/lib -L/home/nel/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+
+						Elwar
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000313.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000313.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c57e36c3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000313.html
@@ -0,0 +1,113 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] STLPort...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000316.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000318.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] STLPort...</H1>
+    <B>Brenden Towey</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] STLPort...">brenden@rcsis.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:45:35 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000316.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000318.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Ok, first post.  Sorry I didn't go through the archives, I'm just lazy =
+that way.
+
+What is STLPort and where do I get it?  www.stlport.org is not found by =
+google (so it therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the =
+compile time #error in nl_types.h:
+#  error &quot;You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)&quot;
+
+Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to the command line or is there an =
+additional component that I need to get?
+
+Thanks for any help you can give!
+
+Brenden
+non-uber NeL lurker
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN&quot;&gt;
+<HEAD>
+
+<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ok, first post.&nbsp; Sorry I didn't =
+go through=20
+the archives, I'm just lazy that way.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What is STLPort and where do I get =
+it?&nbsp; <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.stlport.org">www.stlport.org</A> is not found by =
+google (so it=20
+therefore can't exist ;-).&nbsp; I'm of course referring to the compile =
+time=20
+#error in nl_types.h:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>#&nbsp; error &quot;You need STLPort =
+to compile=20
+this project (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.sltport.org">www.sltport.org</A>)&quot;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to =
+the command=20
+line or is there an additional component that I need to =
+get?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks for any help you can =
+give!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Brenden</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>non-uber NeL =
+lurker</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000315.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000315.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..fdb24fb0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000315.html
@@ -0,0 +1,174 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Network Connections</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:thomas.wright1%40ntlworld.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000326.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000317.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Network Connections</H1>
+    <B>Tom wright</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thomas.wright1%40ntlworld.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Network Connections">thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:48:29 -0000</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000326.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000317.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#315">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#315">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Guys/Gals,
+
+Having followed your arguements so far, i though i would chuck in my 2 p =
+worth.
+
+1) i think you are going to find it very difficult to scale a server to =
+5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme unless its a BIG server. =
+ Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.  But this is just my =
+opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.
+
+2) On windows NT/2k, using async sockets with events is a very efficent =
+way of handling socket comms, and its quite easy to demultiplex the =
+events to work out which socket caused the event.  I would recommend =
+this route, as one thread could then wait for events to be generated on =
+say 30 sockets and then take appropriate action.  unfortunately i can =
+not tell you how well this is going to scale :-( Just look up WSAEvents =
+for READ, SEND and CLOSE.  It does make your sending more entertaining =
+however :-)
+
+3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a much =
+lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+
+4) Some OS's have limits to the size of the array to select, Windows is =
+one of them, typical values seem to be 64.  However using values this =
+large, you are going to spend time thrashing the array looking for the =
+source of the select, with events this is much easier and quicker, tho =
+not linux compatible.  Wrapping up the comms like this specific to each =
+platform is not going to be to hard, just code to a common interface.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+PS A binary of the next release for windows would be nice, takes HOURS =
+to build :-)
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Guys/Gals,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Having followed your arguements so far, =
+i though i=20
+would chuck in my 2 p worth.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;1) i think you are going to find it =
+very difficult=20
+to scale a server to 5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme =
+unless its=20
+a BIG server.&amp;nbsp; Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.&amp;nbsp; =
+But=20
+this is just my opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;2) On windows NT/2k, using async =
+sockets with=20
+events is a very efficent way of handling socket comms, and its quite =
+easy to=20
+demultiplex the events to work out which socket caused the event.&amp;nbsp; =
+I would=20
+recommend this route, as one thread could then wait for events to be =
+generated=20
+on say 30 sockets and then take appropriate action.&amp;nbsp; unfortunately =
+i can=20
+not tell you how&amp;nbsp;well this is going to scale :-( Just look up =
+WSAEvents for=20
+READ, SEND and CLOSE.&amp;nbsp; It does make your sending more entertaining =
+however=20
+:<i>-)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+</I>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;3) Windows did support something called =
+micro=20
+threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&amp;nbsp; These=20
+( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( =
+as in=20
+IIS ).&amp;nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some useful=20
+results.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;4) Some OS's have limits to the size of =
+the array=20
+to select, Windows is one of them, typical values seem to be 64.&amp;nbsp; =
+However=20
+using values this large, you are going to spend time thrashing the array =
+looking=20
+for the source of the select, with events this is much easier and =
+quicker, tho=20
+not linux compatible.&amp;nbsp; Wrapping up the comms like this specific to =
+each=20
+platform is not going to be to hard, just code to a common=20
+interface.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Regards&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;PS A binary of the next release for =
+windows would=20
+be nice, takes HOURS to build :-)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000316.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000316.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b6f93e2c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000316.html
@@ -0,0 +1,86 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000314.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000313.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] NeL Network Engine">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:33:07 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000314.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000313.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#316">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#316">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:52:21AM +0100, Vincent Archer wrote:
+&gt;<i> According to Leighton Haynes:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I'm not sure if this is a really important issue right now. As many
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; people have noted, premature optimization is the source of all evil. 
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> It is somewhat important. There are optimisations that can be done further,
+</I>&gt;<i> but there are also fundamental design issues that reflect how everything
+</I>&gt;<i> else in the server code has to be written.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> You do not program an event-driven system like you would on a thread-based
+</I>&gt;<i> system. Converting from one model to another would be horribly painful,
+</I>&gt;<i> which is why the &quot;right&quot; one has to be selected. Once we pick one, we'll
+</I>&gt;<i> have to stick by it, and the more code is produced under a model, the
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Which is why the decision about this was deferred until it can no longer
+</I>&gt;<i> be truly avoided.
+</I>
+*ponder*
+
+I can't see the fundamental difference between an event-driven and
+a thread-based model. In an event-driven model , some central arbiter
+gets the input, grabs the data representing the 'entity', processes it, 
+and sends a reply. In a thread-based model, each entitiy is a thread,
+the entity receives a message , processes it, and sends a reply. 
+The fundamental differences, are in the message addressing, and 
+the context switching. 
+
+What are the issues here? So far I've seen only discussion of
+how many threads we can handle, which doesn't seem to be the 
+central issue. What we really need, is a list of the requirements
+for this particular sub-system. (Perhaps they exist somewhere, 
+but I haven't seen them).
+
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000317.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000317.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c94a06de
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000317.html
@@ -0,0 +1,101 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Network Connections</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000315.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000324.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Network Connections</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Network Connections">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:46:35 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000315.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Tom wright:
+&gt;<i> 1) i think you are going to find it very difficult to scale a server
+</I>&gt;<i> to 5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme unless its a BIG
+</I>&gt;<i> server.  Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.  But this is
+</I>&gt;<i> just my opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.
+</I>
+EQ doesn't struggle with 2000 because of server size. A &quot;server&quot; on EQ
+consists (to the best of my knowledge) of about 15 or so quadriprocessor
+RISC boards, with all nearly 100 zones (now) spread of these. They
+struggle not because the server can't handle the load, but because the
+content of the game can't handle the load (i.e. problems stem not from
+too many people for CPU time, they stem from too many people for not
+enough spawns).
+
+No MMOG so far can use a single server, no matter how big it is. What
+we term server, or shard, or whatever, typical technical litterature
+terms 'cluster'. And using the right architecture can make a cluster
+very large, until it collapses not from load, but when adding a new
+note consumes more CPU spent in inter-node communications than the node
+itself adds to the whole.
+
+&gt;<i> 2) On windows NT/2k, using async sockets with events is...
+</I>...
+&gt;<i> 3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had...
+</I>
+All these optimisation techniques are nice. But they're heavily dependent
+on Windows itself. We do want our server to run under windows, for debugging
+purpose (and for the odd amateur out there who would want to run a
+smallish server on his home machine), but we clearly do NOT intend our
+production servers to run under windows.
+
+Which is why we're looking at a reasonably portable architecture, and why
+these suggestions, as nice as they are, cannot be used, because they tie
+too much the architecture :(
+
+&gt;<i> PS A binary of the next release for windows would be nice, takes HOURS to build :-)
+</I>
+As much as people would love one, it's right now a &quot;marketing&quot; decision,
+so that we attract people that really want to look at the source, and not
+just people who want to look at the finished product without caring about
+how it's done :)
+
+(However, some Nevrax people, and maybe external people as well, have set
+ up binary archives on their own private home pages. Ask, and you'll
+ probably find it. But officially, we do not support or provide these
+ releases. Yet)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000318.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000318.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..6c279c15
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000318.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] STLPort...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000313.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000320.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] STLPort...</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] STLPort...">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:26:22 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000313.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000320.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#318">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hope you'll find STL here
+<A HREF="http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/">http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/</A>
+
+Thursday, March 01, 2001, 6:45:35 AM, you wrote:
+
+BT&gt; Ok, first post.  Sorry I didn't go through the archives, I'm just lazy that way.
+
+BT&gt; What is STLPort and where do I get it?  www.stlport.org is not found by google (so it therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the compile time #error in nl_types.h:
+BT&gt; #  error &quot;You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)&quot;
+
+BT&gt; Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to the command line or is there an additional component that I need to get?
+
+BT&gt; Thanks for any help you can give!
+
+BT&gt; Brenden
+BT&gt; non-uber NeL lurker
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000319.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000319.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0e6f93d9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000319.html
@@ -0,0 +1,71 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000331.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000322.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:34:59 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000331.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000322.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#319">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>
+Wednesday, February 28, 2001, 11:13:12 PM, you wrote:
+
+BH&gt; * Zane &lt;<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A>&gt; [010228 19:17]:
+&gt;&gt;<i> ----- Original Message -----
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> From: &quot;Vincent Caron&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:v.caron@zerodeux.net">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A>&gt;
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+</I>
+&gt;&gt;<i> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> already implemented.
+</I>I think what Slashdot.org is a right place to ask our &quot;Network Engine&quot;
+question. I hope it'll gave us a lot useful ideas.
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000321.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000321.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..12220818
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000321.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compile error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000312.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000326.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compile error</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compile error">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:26:11 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000312.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000326.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#321">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi, 
+
+&gt;<i> c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/nel/code/nel/include -I/home/nel/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o sight.o lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/nel/code/nel/lib -L/home/nel/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+</I>&gt;<i> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+</I>
+It seems that the compiler cannot find the libnelnet.so file.
+
+You compile it as if the NeL instalation prefix (/usr/local/ by default or
+what you defined when calling the configure script) is /home/nel/code/nel
+which seems to be the CVS directory.
+
+Could you check were is placed the libnelnet.so file ?
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000322.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000322.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..38a10346
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000322.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] STLPort...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000319.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000327.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] STLPort...</H1>
+    <B>Brenden Towey</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] STLPort...">brenden@rcsis.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 07:41:11 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000319.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000327.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#322">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>-----Original Message-----
+From: Valignat Cedric &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt;
+
+&gt;<i>   &lt;URL:<A HREF="http://www.stlport.org/">http://www.stlport.org/</A>&gt;
+</I>
+
+Thanks so much!  Um, the #error in types_nl.h has this misspelled as
+&quot;www.sltport.org&quot; (note that the &quot;L&quot; and the &quot;T&quot; are transposed).  It might
+prevent future confusion if this was corrected.  I really wasn't kidding
+when I said that Google had no idea what this was. :-)
+
+Fast, accurate help on the mailing list for a newbie, can't ask for better
+than that...
+
+Brenden
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+    <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000324.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000324.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8e23f7c3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000324.html
@@ -0,0 +1,141 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Network Connections</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000317.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000325.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Network Connections</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Network Connections">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:38:16 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000317.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000325.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+  3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a =
+much lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+I come from a nix background, but I wouldn't doubt that windows also has =
+had some implementation of microthreads.  The best current way to use =
+microthreads afaik is stackless python (stackless.org) which I (as the =
+game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of the game my =
+company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel library.  =
+Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming concept called =
+continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a program from =
+any given point- that includes it's state and any branch of code it =
+might follow from there.  Stackless Python provides a way to reference =
+continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a =
+neat trick u should read about).  Writing microthreads is as simple as =
+defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same time with a =
+special call- they are executed in parralel within the same thread and =
+each requires almost no overhead above what they would if executed in =
+serial.  EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also plans to use stackless as the =
+basis for their game mechanics.  I dont have any benchmarks on its =
+network performance or scalability, but I plan to test it soon.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D&quot;BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;3) Windows did support something =
+called micro=20
+  threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&amp;nbsp;=20
+  These ( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for =
+scalable IO (=20
+  as in IIS ).&amp;nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some useful=20
+  results.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I come from a nix background, but I =
+wouldn't doubt=20
+that windows also has had some implementation of microthreads.&amp;nbsp; The =
+best=20
+current way to use microthreads afaik is stackless python =
+(stackless.org) which=20
+I (as the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of =
+the game=20
+my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel =
+library.&amp;nbsp;=20
+Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming concept called=20
+continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a program from =
+any given=20
+point- that includes it's state and any branch of code it might follow =
+from=20
+there.&amp;nbsp; Stackless Python provides a way to reference continuations- =
+which=20
+requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a neat trick u should =
+read=20
+about).&amp;nbsp; Writing microthreads is as simple as defining a bunch of =
+functions=20
+and calling them at the same time with a special call- they are executed =
+in=20
+parralel within the same thread and each requires almost no overhead =
+above what=20
+they would if executed in serial.&amp;nbsp; EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also =
+plans to=20
+use stackless as the basis for their game mechanics.&amp;nbsp; I dont have =
+any=20
+benchmarks on its network performance or scalability, but I plan to test =
+it=20
+soon.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Michael Warnock&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;In-Orbit =
+Entertainment&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000325.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000325.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2b1cdbfb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000325.html
@@ -0,0 +1,205 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Network Connections</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000324.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000331.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Network Connections</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Network Connections">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:41:15 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000324.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000331.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#325">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#325">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+oops:)
+
+It is actually <A HREF="http://www.stackless.com=20">http://www.stackless.com=20</A>
+
+Here are more relavent urls:
+<A HREF="http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html">http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp">http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp</A>
+<A HREF="http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/">http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/</A>
+
+We hope to use the MIT exokernel the last url refers to as a stripped =
+down os for the servers.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Michael Warnock=20
+  To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>=20
+  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:38 PM
+  Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+
+
+    3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a =
+much lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+  I come from a nix background, but I wouldn't doubt that windows also =
+has had some implementation of microthreads.  The best current way to =
+use microthreads afaik is stackless python (stackless.org) which I (as =
+the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of the =
+game my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel =
+library.  Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming =
+concept called continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a =
+program from any given point- that includes it's state and any branch of =
+code it might follow from there.  Stackless Python provides a way to =
+reference continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for =
+framing(a neat trick u should read about).  Writing microthreads is as =
+simple as defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same =
+time with a special call- they are executed in parralel within the same =
+thread and each requires almost no overhead above what they would if =
+executed in serial.  EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also plans to use =
+stackless as the basis for their game mechanics.  I dont have any =
+benchmarks on its network performance or scalability, but I plan to test =
+it soon.
+
+  Michael Warnock
+  In-Orbit Entertainment
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;oops:)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;It is actually &lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.stackless.com"">http://www.stackless.com&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://www.stackless.com</A">http://www.stackless.com&lt;/A</A>&gt; =
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Here are more relavent =
+urls:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html"">http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://world.std.com/~w=">http://world.std.com/~w=</A>
+ware/uthread.html&lt;/A&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp"">http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://www.eve-online.c=">http://www.eve-online.c=</A>
+om/faq/faq_08.asp&lt;/A&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/"">http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/</A">http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/&lt;/A</A>&gt;&lt;BR=
+&gt;<i>&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+</I>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;We hope to use the MIT exokernel the =
+last url=20
+refers to as a stripped down os for the servers.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Michael Warnock&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;In-Orbit Entertainment&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;
+&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D&quot;BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV=20
+  style=3D&quot;BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;From:&lt;/B&gt;=20
+  &lt;A href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>&quot; =
+title=<A HREF="mailto:3Dmichael@in-orbit.net">3Dmichael@in-orbit.net</A>&gt;Michael=20
+  Warnock&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;To:&lt;/B&gt; &lt;A =
+href=3D&quot;mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&quot;=20
+  title=<A HREF="mailto:3Dnel@nevrax.org">3Dnel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&lt;/A&gt; &lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Sent:&lt;/B&gt; Thursday, March 01, 2001 =
+2:38=20
+  PM&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV style=3D&quot;FONT: 10pt arial&quot;&gt;&lt;B&gt;Subject:&lt;/B&gt; Re: [Nel] Network=20
+  Connections&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20
+  style=3D&quot;BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px&quot;&gt;
+    &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;3) Windows did support something =
+called micro=20
+    threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&amp;nbsp;=20
+    These ( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for =
+scalable IO=20
+    ( as in IIS ).&amp;nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some =
+useful=20
+    results.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I come from a nix background, but I =
+wouldn't=20
+  doubt that windows also has had some implementation of =
+microthreads.&amp;nbsp; The=20
+  best current way to use microthreads afaik is stackless python =
+(stackless.org)=20
+  which I (as the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server =
+side of=20
+  the game my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the =
+Nel=20
+  library.&amp;nbsp; Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten =
+programming=20
+  concept called continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of =
+a=20
+  program from any given point- that includes it's state and any branch =
+of code=20
+  it might follow from there.&amp;nbsp; Stackless Python provides a way to =
+reference=20
+  continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a =
+neat=20
+  trick u should read about).&amp;nbsp; Writing microthreads is as simple as =
+
+  defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same time with a =
+special=20
+  call- they are executed in parralel within the same thread and each =
+requires=20
+  almost no overhead above what they would if executed in serial.&amp;nbsp; =
+EVE (a=20
+  commercial mmorpg) also plans to use stackless as the basis for their =
+game=20
+  mechanics.&amp;nbsp; I dont have any benchmarks on its network performance =
+or=20
+  scalability, but I plan to test it soon.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Michael Warnock&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+  &lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;In-Orbit=20
+Entertainment&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000324.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000331.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000326.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000326.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..798cf05c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000326.html
@@ -0,0 +1,63 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Compile error</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000321.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000315.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Compile error</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Compile error">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:50:37 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000321.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000315.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#326">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="subject.html#326">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#326">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello, 
+
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@elwar.com">nel@elwar.com</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+</I>&gt;<i> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+</I>
+Where did you installed NeL when you execute the command 'make install' ? 
+
+It's seems that the compiler is trying to get it from 
+'/home/nel/code/nel/include' and '/home/nel/code/nel/lib' but it seems
+that's the source (CVS) directory ... am i right ? :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000321.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#326">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000327.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000327.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8b1a4d72
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000327.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] STLPort...</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000322.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000323.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] STLPort...</H1>
+    <B>Valignat Cedric</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] STLPort...">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:14:36 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000322.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000323.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#327">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#327">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#327">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#327">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Brenden Towey wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Thanks so much!  Um, the #error in types_nl.h has this misspelled as
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;www.sltport.org&quot; (note that the &quot;L&quot; and the &quot;T&quot; are transposed).  It might
+</I>&gt;<i> prevent future confusion if this was corrected.  I really wasn't kidding
+</I>&gt;<i> when I said that Google had no idea what this was. :-)
+</I>
+Rhhaaa, shame on me. I understood that you were killing but i didn't notice
+the mispelling, so i had some difficulties to understand the joke ... doh ! :o)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000322.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#327">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000328.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000328.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e1c15877
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000328.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000323.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000329.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:09:12 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000323.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000329.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#328">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#328">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#328">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#328">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>We have made some screenshots internally, while checking various parts
+of the Snowballs sample game. After much debate, we've selecte a few
+that we think are pretty representative.
+
+Note that these shots are representative of the technology demo, and do
+not reflect our planned game or gameplay.
+
+You may find these 12 screenshots here:
+	<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/screenshots/">http://www.nevrax.org/screenshots/</A>
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000329.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000329.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f5379277
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000329.html
@@ -0,0 +1,148 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Network Connections</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:thomas.wright1%40ntlworld.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000328.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000330.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Network Connections</H1>
+    <B>Tom wright</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:thomas.wright1%40ntlworld.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Network Connections">thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:09:22 -0000</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000328.html">[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000330.html">[Nel] Network Connections 2</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#329">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#329">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#329">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Michael,
+
+yeah i have played about with python and read with interest the stackles =
+stuff.  Some neat technology. However as good as python is for rapid =
+developement it has one VERY serious drawback, and thats its speed.  Now =
+before i get flamed, I know stackless is a bit faster that normal 2.0 =
+python but its still REALLY REALLY slow compared to Java ( which is not =
+exactly a speed demon ) and of course c/c++.  Would u not be better =
+using your own custom language for inserver scripting that you can tweak =
+to the nth degree ??  Problem with embedding python is because its a =
+general purpose language you take all the speed compromises that that =
+entails, decisons made by some one else without knowledge in your =
+domain.  It takes more effort of course but could well yield better =
+results.  How about inventing a new language specifically for MMORGS :-)
+
+BTW i dont think the microthreads implementation on windows is the same =
+concept as python, they are simply light threads with less start =
+up/shutdown and context switching over head.  They dont have anything to =
+do with continuations ala python ( as far as i am aware ).
+
+However it sounds like the deployment platform is some custom unix box, =
+so its all academic :-) =20
+
+BTW2 Have you looked at ACE by Doug Schmidt at Washington Uni ??  That =
+would provide u with common comms layer on many unix and windows =
+platforms.  Its a nice piece of kit.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hi Michael,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;yeah i have played about with python =
+and read with=20
+interest the stackles stuff.&amp;nbsp; Some neat technology. However as good =
+as=20
+python is for rapid developement it has one VERY serious drawback, and =
+thats its=20
+speed.&amp;nbsp; Now before i get flamed, I know stackless is a bit faster =
+that=20
+normal 2.0 python but its still REALLY REALLY slow compared to Java ( =
+which is=20
+not exactly a speed demon ) and of course c/c++.&amp;nbsp; Would u not be =
+better=20
+using your own custom language for inserver scripting that you can tweak =
+to the=20
+nth degree ??&amp;nbsp; Problem with embedding python is because its a =
+general=20
+purpose language you take all the speed compromises that that entails, =
+decisons=20
+made by some one else without knowledge in your domain.&amp;nbsp; It takes =
+more=20
+effort of course but could well yield better results.&amp;nbsp; How about =
+inventing=20
+a new language specifically for MMORGS :-)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;BTW i dont think the microthreads =
+implementation on=20
+windows is the same concept as python, they are simply light threads =
+with less=20
+start up/shutdown and context switching over head.&amp;nbsp; They dont have =
+anything=20
+to do with continuations ala python ( as far as i am aware =
+).&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;However it sounds like the deployment =
+platform is=20
+some custom unix box, so its all academic :-)&amp;nbsp; &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;BTW2 Have you looked at ACE by Doug =
+Schmidt at=20
+Washington Uni ??&amp;nbsp; That would provide u with common comms layer on =
+many=20
+unix and windows platforms.&amp;nbsp; Its a nice piece of kit.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Regards&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000331.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000331.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..6bdb3c7d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000331.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Network Connections</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:duponc%40rpi.edu">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000325.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000319.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Network Connections</H1>
+    <B>Charles Dupont</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:duponc%40rpi.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Network Connections">duponc@rpi.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:18:32 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000325.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000319.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#331">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#331">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>When you talk about network connections how are they going to work?  For 
+example when say a player wants to find out what he/she has in his 
+inivitroy how does the client get this information.  Does the client 
+talk deriectly to the items sever or does it first contact another 
+server, that it would contact for every data request, and which then 
+goes asks the items server for the information which the server passes 
+back to the client.  If it is the case that there is  a gateway server 
+that talks to the data servers not the client talks directly to the data 
+servers.  Why does there have to be a single gateway server.  You could 
+set it up so that the gateways only had to control the max amount of 
+connections the server can handel.  To do this you would need a another 
+server to handle incomming connections and pass them off to the gateway 
+servers.  Of course this system could bog down the intercluster network, 
+but you would think that the total amount of trafic would not change.  
+If it is the other way then this won't work. i.e. client talks directly  
+to items server.
+
+
+Charles Dupont
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000332.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000332.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0f85b158
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000332.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Screenshots</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000330.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000347.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Screenshots</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Screenshots">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:38:36 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000330.html">[Nel] Network Connections 2</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000347.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#332">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#332">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I would like to post some of these screen shots up on my game's public =
+information site... May I?  Also, must the &quot;NeL&quot; logo appear in them?
+
+TIA.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I would like to post some of these screen shots up =
+on my=20
+game's public information site... May I?&amp;nbsp; Also, must the &quot;NeL&quot; logo =
+appear=20
+in them?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;TIA.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#332">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000333.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000333.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7cd2a1d6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000333.html
@@ -0,0 +1,111 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some misc questions</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000347.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000348.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Some misc questions</H1>
+    <B>Jared Mark</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jmark4%40home.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some misc questions">jmark4@home.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:15:43 -0600</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000347.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000348.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#333">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#333">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#333">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL be released to the =
+public?
+2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, say... Python) that =
+will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for and uses?  =
+If so, what are they, and where can we get them?
+3) Is there anything in the works as far as &quot;world creation =
+documentation&quot; goes?  Such as &quot;this is how you structure your data&quot;, and =
+&quot;this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to work in =
+your game.&quot;?  Or will we need to just kinda figure it out ourselves... =
+:<i>)
+</I>4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered already... but when is the =
+projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?  (If there's any at =
+all)...
+
+TIA
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL =
+be=20
+released to the public?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, =
+say...=20
+Python) that will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for =
+and=20
+uses?&amp;nbsp; If so, what are they, and where can we get =
+them?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;3) Is there anything in the works as far =
+as&amp;nbsp;&quot;world=20
+creation documentation&quot; goes?&amp;nbsp; Such as &quot;this is how you structure =
+your=20
+data&quot;, and &quot;this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to =
+work in=20
+your game.&quot;?&amp;nbsp; Or will we need to just kinda figure it out =
+ourselves...=20
+:<i>)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+</I>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered =
+already... but=20
+when is the projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?&amp;nbsp; (If =
+there's=20
+any at all)...&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;TIA&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000334.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000334.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..784c79da
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000334.html
@@ -0,0 +1,94 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000348.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000336.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</H1>
+    <B>robert@paradox.got.net</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries">robert@paradox.got.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 3 Mar 2001 01:05:59 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000348.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000336.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#334">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#334">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello again folks,
+
+First, I did read that whole message about 'data/', but I couldn't
+figure out what the fix was.  I admit my C++ skills are a lacking, but
+a patch would have been great.  It doesn't matter now, because I can't
+build the latest CVS.
+
+Up until today I couldn't build NeL at all due to library problems, I
+think.  When I finally got it to build the client wouldn't build.
+
+So currently I'm getting:
+
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::CMode::CMode(unsigned short, unsigned short, unsigned char, bool)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::CDriverUser::convMat(NL3D::UMaterial &amp;)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D43(void)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver virtual table'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info node'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info function'
+
+... which looks to me like more of that interface rearrangement stuff,
+and I have no idea what to do about it.
+
+As someone who would very much like to help either with testing, or
+even coding, I'd like to request that developers make CVS log entries
+a little more verbose then 'grrrrr', 'added file' or 'BUG: makefile'.
+I know you guys know what you're doing, and I can usually get some
+idea of what's going on looking at the diffs, but if 'grrrr' was 'path
+change (3d/tmp)', and 'added file' mentioned the filename, and 'BUG:
+makefile' said 'BUG: added frustrum.ccp', it would make it a lot
+easier for me to get my bearings and tracedown whether errors are due
+to my build environment, or due to some SNAFU in France, or whatever.
+It would also make it less likely that I would need to look at the
+diff at all.
+
+I love the screenshots, and I can't wait to try this stuff out on my
+own machine.  
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot; meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                    -- login fortune
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000336.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000336.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..64cafbc0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000336.html
@@ -0,0 +1,75 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000334.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000343.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</H1>
+    <B>Lionel Berenguier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries">berenguier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:19:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000334.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000343.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#336">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@paradox.got.net">robert@paradox.got.net</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:05 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hello again folks,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> As someone who would very much like to help either with testing, or
+</I>&gt;<i> even coding, I'd like to request that developers make CVS log entries
+</I>&gt;<i> a little more verbose then 'grrrrr', 'added file' or 'BUG: makefile'.
+</I>&gt;<i> I know you guys know what you're doing, and I can usually get some
+</I>&gt;<i> idea of what's going on looking at the diffs, but if 'grrrr' was 'path
+</I>&gt;<i> change (3d/tmp)', and 'added file' mentioned the filename, and 'BUG:
+</I>
+
+Ok. I apologize. Actually, the files were moved 2 times, and I just realize
+that just the last log is valid.
+
+Sorry...
+
+
+Lionel Berenguier.
+---
+3d programmer / nevrax.com
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000337.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000337.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c245f586
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000337.html
@@ -0,0 +1,161 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000335.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000338.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:41:24 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000335.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000338.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#337">[ date ]</a>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+In fact, new_message.cpp shouldn't be on the nel directory. so you could
+delete new_message.* and remove the file from the makefile or from the .dsp.
+I commit the modification but you must wait the night to get the fix.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;papakane&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:adam@papakane.com">adam@papakane.com</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:20 AM
+Subject: [Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I've been trying to compile snowballs.exe for the past few days. I really
+</I>&gt;<i> don't know C++ all that well and certainly don't know much about VisualC++
+</I>&gt;<i> so I have a feeling I may be over my head but I am dying to get involved
+</I>in
+&gt;<i> this project and I would love to play snowballs.exe. So any help would be
+</I>&gt;<i> greatly appreciated.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I am using MS Visual C++ on Windows 2000, 3dfx voodoo3 and I am compiling
+</I>a
+&gt;<i> current CVS version of the code base.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I get the following compile time errors when I build nlnet_rd.lib
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --------------------Configuration: net - Win32
+</I>ReleaseDebug--------------------
+&gt;<i> Compiling...
+</I>&gt;<i> new_message.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2629: unexpected 'class NLNET::CNewMessage ('
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2334: unexpected token(s) preceding ':'; skipping apparent function body
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2146: syntax error : missing ',' before identifier 'id'
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2061: syntax error : identifier 'id'
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '*'
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2501: '_SIDA' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+</I>&gt;<i> Error executing cl.exe.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> nlnet_rd.lib - 8 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I took the liberty of adding the following line to new_message.h
+</I>&gt;<i> #include &quot;nel/misc/string_id_array.h&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> since that's where CStringArray is defined.  and got some more syntax
+</I>&gt;<i> errors on line 71.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> line 71 reads:
+</I>&gt;<i>          void setType (const TStringId id)
+</I>&gt;<i> I made the following changes to get rid of the syntax errors. ( why? I
+</I>&gt;<i> am  not really sure. it just seemed the right thing to do ;-) )
+</I>&gt;<i>          void setType (const NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> and now I get the following error that I can't fix.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(100) : error
+</I>&gt;<i> C2662: 'getId' : cannot convert 'this' pointer from 'const class
+</I>&gt;<i> NLMISC::CStringIdArray' to 'class NLMISC::CStringIdArray &amp;'
+</I>&gt;<i>          Conversion loses qualifiers
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> line 100 reads as follows :
+</I>&gt;<i>            NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id = _SIDA-&gt;getId (name);
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _SIDA is defined as follows
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> private:
+</I>&gt;<i> const NLMISC::CStringIdArray *_SIDA;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Does any one have any idea what's wrong or even if I am on the right
+</I>track?
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> -Ishmael (and Adam)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> p.s. I compiled the version found in snowballs_src_0_2.zip downloaded from
+</I>&gt;<i> nevrax.org. I got everything compiled but then when I load the game and
+</I>&gt;<i> connect to the public server I get a white screen that stays white and the
+</I>&gt;<i> game never loads.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I decided to get the updated CVS version of the code base to see if it
+</I>&gt;<i> works better.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> p.p.s. I was also getting compile time errors in the AI module (or is it
+</I>&gt;<i> IA, the vcc workspace keeps calling it IA wihch is very confusing) but it
+</I>&gt;<i> doesn't seem like snowballs uses the ai module. Is this correct?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ______________________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Ga-ming-o (n): A collection of game programming examples for lingo.
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=8974">http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=8974</A> &lt;-- bugbase
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.gamingo.com">http://www.gamingo.com</A>   &lt;-- homepage
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000338.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000338.html
new file mode 100644
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+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] newbies about packet schema</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000337.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] newbies about packet schema</H1>
+    <B>jaleco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw"
+       TITLE="[Nel] newbies about packet schema">jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:05:42 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000337.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000352.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#338">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I have read artice for winsock program,=20
+if folling article is true, that snow ball netowrk driver , should =
+change it's packet schema.
+any one can give me suggect ?
+
+original from =
+<A HREF="http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediate.html#d=">http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediate.html#d=</A>
+isable-nagle
+Inexperienced Winsockers usually try disabling the Nagle algorithm when =
+they are trying to impose some kind of packet scheme on a TCP data =
+stream. That is, they want to be able to send, say, two packets, one 40 =
+bytes and the other 60, and have the receiver get a 40-byte packet =
+followed by a separate 60-byte packet. (With the Nagle algorithm =
+enabled, TCP will often coalesce these two packets into a single 100 =
+byte packet.) Unfortunately, this is futile, for the following reasons:
+
+  1.. Even if the sender manages to send its packets individually, the =
+receiving TCP/IP stack may still coalesce the received packets into a =
+single packet. This can happen any time the sender can send data faster =
+than the receiver can deal with it.=20
+  2.. Winsock Layered Service Providers (LSPs) may coalesce or fragment =
+stream data, especially LSPs that modify the data as it passes.=20
+  3.. Turning off the Nagle algorithm in a client program will not =
+affect the way that the server sends packets, and vice versa.=20
+  4.. Routers and other intermediaries on the network can fragment =
+packets, and there is no guarantee of &quot;proper&quot; reassembly with stream =
+protocols.=20
+  5.. If packet arrives that is larger than the available space in the =
+stack's buffers, it may fragment a packet, queuing up as many bytes as =
+it has buffer space for and discarding the rest. (The remote peer will =
+resend the remaining data later.)=20
+  6.. Winsock is not required to give you all the data it has queued on =
+a socket even if your recv() call gave Winsock enough buffer space. It =
+may require several calls to get all the data queued on a socket.=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Dbig5&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;I have read artice for winsock program, =
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;if folling article is true, that snow ball netowrk =
+driver ,=20
+should change it's packet schema.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;any one can give me suggect ?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;original from &lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=">http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=</A>
+e.html#disable-nagle&quot;&gt;<A HREF="http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winso=">http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winso=</A>
+ck/intermediate.html#disable-nagle&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;Inexperienced Winsockers usually try disabling the Nagle algorithm =
+when they=20
+are trying to impose some kind of &lt;A=20
+href=3D&quot;<A HREF="http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=">http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=</A>
+e.html#packetscheme&quot;&gt;packet=20
+scheme&lt;/A&gt; on a TCP data stream. That is, they want to be able to send, =
+say, two=20
+packets, one 40 bytes and the other 60, and have the receiver get a =
+40-byte=20
+packet followed by a separate 60-byte packet. (With the Nagle algorithm =
+enabled,=20
+TCP will often coalesce these two packets into a single 100 byte =
+packet.)=20
+Unfortunately, this is futile, for the following reasons:&lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;OL&gt;
+  &lt;LI&gt;Even if the sender manages to send its packets individually, the =
+receiving=20
+  TCP/IP stack may still coalesce the received packets into a single =
+packet.=20
+  This can happen any time the sender can send data faster than the =
+receiver can=20
+  deal with it.=20
+  &lt;LI&gt;Winsock Layered Service Providers (LSPs) may coalesce or fragment =
+stream=20
+  data, especially LSPs that modify the data as it passes.=20
+  &lt;LI&gt;Turning off the Nagle algorithm in a client program will not =
+affect the=20
+  way that the server sends packets, and vice versa.=20
+  &lt;LI&gt;Routers and other intermediaries on the network can fragment =
+packets, and=20
+  there is no guarantee of &quot;proper&quot; reassembly with stream protocols.=20
+  &lt;LI&gt;If packet arrives that is larger than the available space in the =
+stack's=20
+  buffers, it may fragment a packet, queuing up as many bytes as it has =
+buffer=20
+  space for and discarding the rest. (The remote peer will resend the =
+remaining=20
+  data later.)=20
+  &lt;LI&gt;Winsock is not required to give you all the data it has queued on =
+a socket=20
+  even if your &lt;CODE&gt;recv()&lt;/CODE&gt; call gave Winsock enough buffer =
+space. It may=20
+  require several calls to get all the data queued on a socket.=20
+&lt;/LI&gt;&lt;/OL&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920--
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000339.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000339.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] compile.cpp</H1>
+    <B>nel@elwar.com</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40elwar.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile.cpp">nel@elwar.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:39:40 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000352.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>After finally getting the client to compile and run I ran into the problem
+of the itsalive.nevrax.org site not being alive. So I figured I'd compile the
+server on my system. 
+First problem I had with the agent_service directory is it was searching for
+my Python.h file which I finally had to explicetly include the path in the
+Makefile. The final problem was that there's no compile.cpp in the agent_service
+directory and the Makefile is trying to create the compile.o
+I'll check out the .gz version to see if there's a compile.cpp in there.
+
+							Elwar
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000340.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000340.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] compile.cpp</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile.cpp">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:22:40 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000339.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>The agent service isnt necessary to run the server.  You only needed the
+naming service, log service, login service and moves service until
+yesterday- now u have to run the time service too, which hasn't been running
+well for me in the last few weeks, however, an older copy of it works just
+fine.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+No matter where you go, &amp;this.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000341.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000341.html
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] compile.cpp</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile.cpp">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:35:31 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000340.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Michael,
+
+&gt;<i> yesterday- now u have to run the time service too, which hasn't been
+</I>running
+&gt;<i> well for me in the last few weeks, however, an older copy of it works just
+</I>
+Could you, please, explain me what is the problem about the time service?
+Here, it seems to work fine on windows 2000 and on redhat 7 linux.
+
+Vianney
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000343.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000343.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..659989aa
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000343.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:30:14 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000336.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000335.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE><A HREF="mailto:robert@paradox.got.net">robert@paradox.got.net</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> First, I did read that whole message about 'data/', but I couldn't
+</I>&gt;<i> figure out what the fix was.  I admit my C++ skills are a lacking, but
+</I>&gt;<i> a patch would have been great.  It doesn't matter now, because I can't
+</I>&gt;<i> build the latest CVS.
+</I>
+I'm going to take a look on it ...
+
+
+&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info function'
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ... which looks to me like more of that interface rearrangement stuff,
+</I>&gt;<i> and I have no idea what to do about it.
+</I>
+This is fixed in the last CVS files. Update your CVS and it should work :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000345.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000345.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b3508624
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000345.html
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:53:55 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000346.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+
+(I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000346.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000346.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7cc7f0ce
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000346.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] compile.cpp</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile.cpp">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:05:06 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000344.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vincent Archer wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> That happens when someone adds a new file to the compilation process,
+</I>&gt;<i> but forgets a &quot;cvs add&quot; :)
+</I>
+Atually, it was, more or less, the other way around. The compile.cpp file
+was removed from the CVS, and it wasn't removed in the Makefile.am file :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000348.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000348.html
new file mode 100644
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Some misc questions</TITLE>
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+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000333.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] Some misc questions</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Some misc questions">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:39:52 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000333.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Jared Mark:
+&gt;<i> 1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL be released to the public?
+</I>
+Right now, we have no update yet. It's still mostly a matter of license,
+and we do want to be sure before we release (once the horse leaves the barn,
+you can't close the door anymore).
+
+No ETA. Alas.
+
+&gt;<i> 2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, say... Python) that will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for and uses?  If so, what are they, and where can we get them?
+</I>
+So far, we need only STLports, Freetype, and Python. Which should be
+mentioned in the Readme for compilation, including the correct URLs
+(except when we swap t &amp; l around for the STLport.org domain, that is)
+
+&gt;<i> 3) Is there anything in the works as far as &quot;world creation documentation&quot; goes?  Such as &quot;this is how you structure your data&quot;, and &quot;this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to work in your game.&quot;?  Or will we need to just kinda figure it out ourselves... :)
+</I>
+Good question. I'm not even sure we really know ourselves (just kidding).
+That's something in the work, because oral tradition isn't enough even here.
+
+&gt;<i> 4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered already... but when is the projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?  (If there's any at all)...
+</I>
+We do hope to have our game up in beta at the end of the year, so we
+expect to have the library stable and fully functional at about the same
+time. Whether or not we'll stamp it 1.0 before full debug, or when we go
+beta is another debate :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000349.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000349.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c025b184
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000349.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</TITLE>
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:41:33 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000345.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Vincent Caron wrote:
+&gt;<i> In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+</I>&gt;<i> driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> (I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+</I>
+I tryed to reproduce your error with the files present in the public
+repository, but it was without any success.
+
+I update the public CVS repository more or less at the same time that
+you've done the update, so could you try to update it again to check
+out if the error is not coming from our public repository
+synchronization ?
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000350.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000350.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b8fc1652
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@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
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+   <H1>[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:52:43 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000351.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000354.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Vincent Caron:
+&gt;<i> In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+</I>&gt;<i> driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> (I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+</I>
+This is strange, since the repository has the viewport.h file,
+as shown on CVSweb:
+
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/include/nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/include/nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h</A>
+
+(and yes, I know people hate the 'grrrr' comments :) )
+
+Are you sure the cvs update went correctly?
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000351.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000351.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..cfe7ea88
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Caron</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:56:49 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000349.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Cedric Valignat wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I update the public CVS repository more or less at the same time that
+</I>&gt;<i> you've done the update, so could you try to update it again to check
+</I>&gt;<i> out if the error is not coming from our public repository
+</I>&gt;<i> synchronization ?
+</I>
+My fault, I have a pb with cvs ignoring my ~/.cvsrc file, thus I didn't
+get the new tmp/ folder in '3d'.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000352.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000352.html
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index 00000000..def14384
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] newbies about packet schema</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] newbies about packet schema</H1>
+    <B>Kenneth Duda</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:kjd%40cs.stanford.edu"
+       TITLE="[Nel] newbies about packet schema">kjd@cs.stanford.edu</A><BR>
+    <I>Sat, 3 Mar 2001 02:02:34 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I have read artice for winsock program, if folling article is
+</I>&gt;<i> true, that snow ball netowrk driver , should change it's packet
+</I>&gt;<i> schema.  any one can give me suggect ?
+</I>
+I am not familiar with the snowball protocol (&quot;packet schema&quot;).
+However, I assure you that the article is correct --- attempting
+to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced message stream by
+disabling Nagle will not work.  The only way to implement message
+semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization to the
+byte stream.  For example,
+
+
+  void SendMessage( int socket, const void * buf, size_t length ) 
+  {
+    long l = htonl( length );
+    write( socket, &amp;l, 4 );
+    write( socket, buf, length );
+  }
+
+  void RecvMessage( int socket, void * buf, size_t * length ) 
+  {
+    long l;
+    read( socket, &amp;l, 4 );
+    l = ntohl( l );
+    assert( l &lt; *length );
+    *length = l;
+    read( socket, buf, length );
+  }
+
+
+-Ken
+
+Kenneth J. Duda
+Stanford University Distributed Systems Group
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:kjd@cs.stanford.edu">kjd@cs.stanford.edu</A>&gt;
+
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000353.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000353.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] compile.cpp</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile.cpp">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:42:32 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Could you, please, explain me what is the problem about the time service?
+</I>&gt;<i> Here, it seems to work fine on windows 2000 and on redhat 7 linux.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney
+</I>
+I'm running win2k on an AMD Athlon (750 chipset m/b)
+here is the log of starting the time service:
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS got port
+51001
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Local server time:
+1430727ms, universal time: 4986ms
+
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Service ready
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS-129
+registered at baldur.in-orbit.org/51001
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 ERR baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Unknown external
+exception
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Service stopped
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:39 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS-129
+unregistered at baldur.in-orbit.org/51001
+
+when i try to compile the debug version i get this:
+time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol &quot;public:
+__thiscall NLNET::CMessage::CMessage(class _STLD::basic_string&lt;char,class
+_STLD::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STLD::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt;,bool,unsigned
+__int32)&quot; (??<A HREF="mailto:0CMessage@NLNET">0CMessage@NLNET</A>@@<A HREF="mailto:QAE@V">QAE@V</A>
+?$<A HREF="mailto:basic_string@DV">basic_string@DV</A>?$<A HREF="mailto:char_traits@D">char_traits@D</A>@_STLD@@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_STLD@@<A HREF="mailto:_N_I@Z">_N_I@Z</A>)
+time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol &quot;public: class
+_STLD::basic_string&lt;char,class _STLD::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class
+_STLD::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; const &amp; __thiscall
+NLNET::CInetAddress::hostName(void)const &quot; (?<A HREF="mailto:hostName@CInetAddress">hostName@CInetAddress</A>@
+NLNET@@QBEABV?$<A HREF="mailto:basic_string@DV">basic_string@DV</A>?$<A HREF="mailto:char_traits@D">char_traits@D</A>@_STLD@@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_STLD
+@@XZ)
+nlnet_debug.lib(service.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+&quot;public: virtual void __thiscall NLMISC::CStdDisplayer::display(long,enum
+NLMISC::CLog::TLogType,class _STL::basic_string&lt;char,class
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STL::allocat
+or&lt;char&gt; &gt; const &amp;,char const *,int,char const *)&quot;
+(?<A HREF="mailto:display@CStdDisplayer">display@CStdDisplayer</A>@NLMISC@@<A HREF="mailto:UAEXJW4TLogType@CLog">UAEXJW4TLogType@CLog</A>@<A HREF="mailto:2@ABV">2@ABV</A>?$<A HREF="mailto:basic_string@DV">basic_string@DV</A>?
+$<A HREF="mailto:char_traits@D">char_traits@D</A>@_STL@@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_STL@@<A HREF="mailto:PBDH2@Z">PBDH2@Z</A>)
+nlnet_debug.lib(service.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+&quot;public: static void __cdecl NLMISC::CLog::setProcessName(class
+_STL::basic_string&lt;char,class _STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class
+_STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; const &amp;)&quot; (?<A HREF="mailto:setProcessName@C">setProcessName@C</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:Log@NLMISC">Log@NLMISC</A>@@SAXABV?$<A HREF="mailto:basic_string@DV">basic_string@DV</A>?$<A HREF="mailto:char_traits@D">char_traits@D</A>@_STL@@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_
+STL@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol &quot;public: class _STL::basic_string&lt;char,class
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; const &amp; __thiscall
+NLMISC::CConfigFile::CVar::asString(int)const &quot; (?as
+<A HREF="mailto:String@CVar">String@CVar</A>@<A HREF="mailto:CConfigFile@NLMISC">CConfigFile@NLMISC</A>@@QBEABV?$<A HREF="mailto:basic_string@DV">basic_string@DV</A>?$<A HREF="mailto:char_traits@D">char_traits@D</A>@_STL@
+@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_STL@@<A HREF="mailto:H@Z">H@Z</A>)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol &quot;public: struct NLMISC::CConfigFile::CVar &amp; __thiscall
+NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(class _STL::basic_string&lt;char,class
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STL::allocator&lt;char&gt;
+ &gt; const &amp;)&quot;
+(?<A HREF="mailto:getVar@CConfigFile">getVar@CConfigFile</A>@NLMISC@@<A HREF="mailto:QAEAAUCVar@12">QAEAAUCVar@12</A>@ABV?$<A HREF="mailto:basic_string@DV">basic_string@DV</A>?$char_traits
+@<A HREF="mailto:D@_STL">D@_STL</A>@@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_STL@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol &quot;public: void __thiscall NLMISC::CConfigFile::load(class
+_STL::basic_string&lt;char,class _STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class
+_STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt; const &amp;)&quot; (?<A HREF="mailto:load@CConfigFile">load@CConfigFile</A>@
+NLMISC@@QAEXABV?$<A HREF="mailto:basic_string@DV">basic_string@DV</A>?$<A HREF="mailto:char_traits@D">char_traits@D</A>@_STL@@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_STL
+@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(net_log.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+&quot;protected: static class _STL::basic_string&lt;char,class
+_STL::char_traits&lt;char&gt;,class _STL::allocator&lt;char&gt; &gt;
+NLMISC::CLog::_ProcessName&quot; (?<A HREF="mailto:_ProcessName@CLog">_ProcessName@CLog</A>@NLMISC@@1V?$basic_
+<A HREF="mailto:string@DV">string@DV</A>?$<A HREF="mailto:char_traits@D">char_traits@D</A>@_STL@@V?$<A HREF="mailto:allocator@D">allocator@D</A>@2@@_STL@@A)
+Debug/time_service.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 8 unresolved externals
+
+Michael
+No matter where you go, &amp;this.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000355.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000355.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] client trouble</H1>
+    <B>nel@elwar.com</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40elwar.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] client trouble">nel@elwar.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:19:27 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000358.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Ok, finally I got the client to actually start and ask for my login and
+such. I connected to itsalive.nevrax.org because I guess I have no shards
+available when I run the server. But after I choose the shard at nevrax I get:
+
+01/03/06 22:58:19 INF: Connecting to the shard...
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 open (TCP)
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 connected to 195.68.21.196/50010
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 is at 192.168.1.2/2060
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 sent message AUT (21 bytes +10)
+01/03/06 22:58:19 INF: Loading data...
+01/03/06 22:58:21 ERR: Error in the client: Read error in file './data/' (End of
+ file??)
+01/03/06 22:58:21 DBG: P1: Socket 5 closed at 192.168.1.2/2060
+
+in the client.log file, and it crashes. I'll do some more bug testing to track
+down the exact file it's having trouble with but I just thought I'd see if
+I'm missing something here. 
+
+							Elwar
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000357.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000357.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..aa3517d3
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+ <HEAD>
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+   <H1>[Nel] still having data/ problem</H1>
+    <B>robert@paradox.got.net</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] still having data/ problem">robert@paradox.got.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:22:23 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000354.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> I have to assume this is a Debian/GNU Linux problem because the other
+</I>&gt;<i> guy who had this problem (Leighton Haynes) said he was on a Debian box
+</I>&gt;<i> and because it all seems to work on RedHat.  Perhaps it's a libc
+</I>&gt;<i> thing?  I'm using the latest of everything (unstable Debian).
+</I>
+I noticed that the version of STLport that is called for is 4.0, but
+the version that is packaged for Debian is 4.1.  I'm going to purge my
+4.1 libraries and build 4.0 to see if that fixes it.
+
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot; meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                    -- login fortune
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000359.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000359.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] segv if I press alt?</H1>
+    <B>robert@paradox.got.net</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] segv if I press alt?">robert@paradox.got.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:30:39 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000356.html">[Nel] client trouble</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello again!
+
+I was trying to debug the 'Read error' message, and while switching
+between desktops by pressing &quot;Alt-F1&quot; I generated a segmentation fault
+before I hit the F1 key.  It's extremely easy to duplicate and here's
+the traceback:
+
+(gdb) run
+Starting program: /usr/local/bin/client 
+
+Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+NLMISC::CBitSet::set (this=0x80a09c4, bitNumber=134875400, value=true) at bit_set.cpp:111
+111                     Array[bitNumber / BITLEN]|= mask ;
+(gdb) bt  
+#0  NLMISC::CBitSet::set (this=0x80a09c4, bitNumber=134875400, value=true) at bit_set.cpp:111
+#1  0x400b9c88 in NLMISC::CEventListenerAsync::operator() (this=0x80a09c0, event=@0x82910c8) at event_listener.cpp:91
+#2  0x400ba0f9 in NLMISC::CEventServer::pumpEvent (this=0x80a0940, event=0x82910c8) at event_server.cpp:89
+#3  0x400ba047 in NLMISC::CEventServer::pump (this=0x80a0940) at event_server.cpp:67
+#4  0x807486f in CLanguageInterface::choose (this=0xbffff39c) at language_interface.cpp:141
+#5  0x806fd4e in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffff644) at client.cpp:3078
+#6  0x4040ec14 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/i686/libc.so.6
+(gdb) 
+
+I'm hesitant to file any bugs until I know my development environment
+is up to spec and I don't have any problems with wrong library
+versions and such.
+
+If someone can confirm that this is a bug in a working client, they or
+I can file a bug, otherwise I'll chalk it up to being something on my
+end.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot; meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                    -- login fortune
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000360.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000360.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4b011b96
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000360.html
@@ -0,0 +1,85 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] segv if I press alt?</H1>
+    <B>Leighton Haynes</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:dayta%40ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au"
+       TITLE="[Nel] segv if I press alt?">dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:50:02 +0800</I>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 10:30:39PM -0800, <A HREF="mailto:robert@paradox.got.net">robert@paradox.got.net</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> Hello again!
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I was trying to debug the 'Read error' message, and while switching
+</I>&gt;<i> between desktops by pressing &quot;Alt-F1&quot; I generated a segmentation fault
+</I>&gt;<i> before I hit the F1 key.  It's extremely easy to duplicate and here's
+</I>&gt;<i> the traceback:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm hesitant to file any bugs until I know my development environment
+</I>&gt;<i> is up to spec and I don't have any problems with wrong library
+</I>&gt;<i> versions and such.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> If someone can confirm that this is a bug in a working client, they or
+</I>&gt;<i> I can file a bug, otherwise I'll chalk it up to being something on my
+</I>&gt;<i> end.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>I've noticed this bug. The code that translates X Keypress
+events seems to be broken. I haven't looked at it in detail yet.
+Basically, the code expects to convert all keypresses to a number
+between 0 and 255(?) and then shoves the flag into an array.
+The alt key is getting converted into a number greater than 255
+so it generates a segfault when it tries to set the array value
+for that key.
+
+It's on my list of things to take a look at when I get time ;)
+
+On another topic, I'll post my workaround for the loading &quot;data/&quot; 
+bug thingie to the list sometime tonight. We still need to work out
+_why_ it's trying to load this though. The 'fix' will make it work,
+but doesn't really fix anything.
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000362.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000362.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+   <H1>[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</H1>
+    <B>robert@paradox.got.net</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used">robert@paradox.got.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 7 Mar 2001 01:33:34 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000361.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thanks to Leighton's advice I was able to get running.  Here's the
+patch I used:
+
+$ cvs diff landscape.cpp
+Index: landscape.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.48
+diff -u -r1.48 landscape.cpp
+--- landscape.cpp       2001/02/28 14:28:57     1.48
++++ landscape.cpp       2001/03/07 09:35:52
+@@ -741,16 +741,21 @@
+        // Fill rdrpass.
+        CPatchRdrPass   pass;
+        // The diffuse part for a tile is inevitable.
+-       if(tile)
+-               pass.TextureDiffuse= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+tile-&gt;getRelativeFileName(CTile::diffuse));
+-       else
++       if(tile) {
++               textName= tile-&gt;getRelativeFileName (CTile::diffuse);
++               if(textName!=&quot;&quot;)
++                       pass.TextureDiffuse= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
++       } else {
+                pass.TextureDiffuse= new CTextureCross;
++        }
+        if(tile)
+        {
+                textName= tile-&gt;getRelativeFileName (CTile::alpha);
+                if(textName!=&quot;&quot;)
+                        pass.TextureAlpha= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+-       }
++       } else {
++                pass.TextureAlpha= new CTextureCross;
++        }
+ 
+ 
+        // Fill tileInfo.
+
+As he said, this is not an actuall fix, merely a way to cover up the
+problem.  This will probably make sense to someone there and in the
+mean time I can learn about the rest of this system.
+
+Woo hoo!
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot; meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                    -- login fortune
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000363.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000363.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ab35c98b
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+   <TITLE> [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</H1>
+    <B>Lionel Berenguier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used">berenguier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:59:21 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000362.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>----- Original Message -----
+From: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@paradox.got.net">robert@paradox.got.net</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:33 AM
+Subject: [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used
+
+
+&gt;<i> Thanks to Leighton's advice I was able to get running.  Here's the
+</I>&gt;<i> patch I used:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> $ cvs diff landscape.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> Index: landscape.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> ===================================================================
+</I>&gt;<i> RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp,v
+</I>&gt;<i> retrieving revision 1.48
+</I>&gt;<i> diff -u -r1.48 landscape.cpp
+</I>&gt;<i> --- landscape.cpp       2001/02/28 14:28:57     1.48
+</I>&gt;<i> +++ landscape.cpp       2001/03/07 09:35:52
+</I>&gt;<i> @@ -741,16 +741,21 @@
+</I>&gt;<i>         // Fill rdrpass.
+</I>&gt;<i>         CPatchRdrPass   pass;
+</I>&gt;<i>         // The diffuse part for a tile is inevitable.
+</I>&gt;<i> -       if(tile)
+</I>&gt;<i> -               pass.TextureDiffuse=
+</I>findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+tile-&gt;getRelativeFileName(CTile::diffu
+se));
+&gt;<i> -       else
+</I>&gt;<i> +       if(tile) {
+</I>&gt;<i> +               textName= tile-&gt;getRelativeFileName (CTile::diffuse);
+</I>&gt;<i> +               if(textName!=&quot;&quot;)
+</I>&gt;<i> +                       pass.TextureDiffuse=
+</I>findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+&gt;<i> +       } else {
+</I>&gt;<i>                 pass.TextureDiffuse= new CTextureCross;
+</I>&gt;<i> +        }
+</I>
+
+Actually, If CTextureFile::generate() do not find the file, it should do the
+work of creating a dummy texture for you.
+
+I think, the bug is CTextureFile::generate() try to load a &quot;data/&quot; (a
+directory) which may crash on linux ??
+
+
+&gt;<i>         if(tile)
+</I>&gt;<i>         {
+</I>&gt;<i>                 textName= tile-&gt;getRelativeFileName (CTile::alpha);
+</I>&gt;<i>                 if(textName!=&quot;&quot;)
+</I>&gt;<i>                         pass.TextureAlpha=
+</I>findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+&gt;<i> -       }
+</I>&gt;<i> +       } else {
+</I>&gt;<i> +                pass.TextureAlpha= new CTextureCross;
+</I>&gt;<i> +        }
+</I>
+
+This patch is wrong, because a NULL TextureAlpha is possible, and should not
+crash.
+
+
+I'll correct this.
+
+
+
+Lionel Berenguier.
+---
+3d programmer / nevrax.com
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000364.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000364.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a01e7904
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000364.html
@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] compile.cpp</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000353.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000342.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] compile.cpp</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] compile.cpp">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:05:51 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000353.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000342.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+&gt;<i> LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 ERR baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Unknown external
+</I>exception
+
+Not easy to know what s happen, it should be easier to know the problem if
+you compile the time service and NeL
+in the debug mode and run it in the visual debugger. We are not able to
+reproduce this problem here :-(
+
+&gt;<i> when i try to compile the debug version i get this:
+</I>&gt;<i> time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol &quot;public:
+</I>
+In all NeL project settings (3d, ia, net, misc, client, services, and so on)
+you must have __STL_DEBUG defined in the debug mode.
+Please verify if they all contains this define and if not, add it!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000365.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000365.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..5730e6b9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000365.html
@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] 'data/' bug</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000363.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000366.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] 'data/' bug</H1>
+    <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] 'data/' bug">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:25:17 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000363.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000366.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A></li>
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+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi there!
+
+We, at last, understood the problem of the 'data/' bug on linux.
+In fact, in our rawdatafiles, there are some empty file names and in our
+program, we try to find where these files are located.
+For that, we use a function (CPath::lookup()) that tries to find the file in
+all directories provided before by the user.
+To know if a file exists, we try to open it and if the opening success, we
+return true (CFile::fileExists()).
+When the prog tries to find the file &quot;&quot;, first it calls fileExists(&quot;&quot;) that
+returns false.
+Next step, it tries with the first directory in his list,
+fileExists(&quot;data/&quot;+&quot;&quot;); On windows, the OS can't open the directory
+(&quot;data/&quot;)
+so it returns false. On linux, it can, so it returns true and the program
+tries to read the directory as if it was
+a texture, and of course, it fails (end of file).
+
+We fixed the problem by adding this next line in the top of the function
+string CPath::lookup( const string&amp; filename ) in path.cpp:
+
+ if(filename.empty())
+  throw EPathNotFound( filename );
+
+Of course, we put it on cvs and it will be synchronized this night (GMT+1).
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000366.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000366.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..70a4362d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000366.html
@@ -0,0 +1,113 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] newbies about packet schema</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000365.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000367.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] newbies about packet schema</H1>
+    <B>jaleco</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:jaleco%40svr1.gameone.com.tw"
+       TITLE="[Nel] newbies about packet schema">jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:02:46 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000365.html">[Nel] 'data/' bug</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000367.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A></li>
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+              <a href="date.html#366">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#366">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&gt;<i>I am not familiar with the snowball protocol (&quot;packet schema&quot;).
+</I>&gt;<i>However, I assure you that the article is correct --- attempting
+</I>&gt;<i>to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced message stream by
+</I>&gt;<i>disabling Nagle will not work.  The only way to implement message
+</I>&gt;<i>semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization to the
+</I>&gt;<i>byte stream.  For example,
+</I>
+thanks .
+but snowball seem  have  no any packet schema , just disable Nagle .
+snowball assume send 50 byte , it will receive 50 byte once.
+if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte twice,if it happen,snow ball is =
+die.
+does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n byte by =
+more than one recive ) ?
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Dbig5&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;&amp;gt;I am not familiar with the =
+snowball protocol=20
+(&quot;packet schema&quot;).&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;However, I assure you that the article is =
+correct ---=20
+attempting&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced =
+message stream=20
+by&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;disabling Nagle will not work.&amp;nbsp; The only way to implement =
+
+message&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization =
+to=20
+the&lt;BR&gt;&amp;gt;byte stream.&amp;nbsp; For example,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;thanks .&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;but snowball seem&amp;nbsp; have&amp;nbsp; no =
+any packet=20
+schema , just disable Nagle .&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;snowball assume send 50 byte , it =
+will receive 50=20
+byte once.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte =
+twice,if it=20
+happen,snow ball is die.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n =
+byte by=20
+more than one recive ) ?&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D2&gt;&lt;FONT size=3D3&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720--
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
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+        <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000367.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000367.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..308a728d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000367.html
@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] newbies about packet schema</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000366.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000368.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] newbies about packet schema</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] newbies about packet schema">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:37 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000366.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000368.html">[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#367">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#367">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#367">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#367">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to jaleco:
+&gt;<i> thanks .
+</I>&gt;<i> but snowball seem  have  no any packet schema , just disable Nagle .
+</I>&gt;<i> snowball assume send 50 byte , it will receive 50 byte once.
+</I>&gt;<i> if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte twice,if it happen,snow ball is die.
+</I>&gt;<i> does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n byte by more than one recive ) ?
+</I>
+That's why we're redoing the low-level network stuff :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000368.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000368.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..48d0e848
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000368.html
@@ -0,0 +1,72 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:antoine.hahusseau1%40libertysurf.fr">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000367.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000369.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</H1>
+    <B>Antoine Hahusseau</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:antoine.hahusseau1%40libertysurf.fr"
+       TITLE="[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98">antoine.hahusseau1@libertysurf.fr</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 08 Mar 2001 19:50:05 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000367.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000369.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#368">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#368">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#368">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#368">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>i finaly managed to compile it ! with visual C++ v 6
+
+- you should REALLY tell in the download page that we have to download
+first stlport and freetype ...
+
+but, forget this point, after compilation i get
+
+- snowball.exe, stlxxx dll and nel_openglxxx dll
+i put all of them in the same directory and also the data subdirectory.
+
+and when i launch snowball : i get
+
+error cannot found nel_openglxxx dll
+(135272 octets by the way since i did not mess with the original
+settings)
+
+but this dll is in the same directory as the exe : so what's wrong ?
+
+maybe my graphic card is not enough compliant with the opengl (its a
+voodoo 3, please don't laugh) ?
+
+does someone encoutered  the same problem,
+does someone managed to play snowball with a voodoo ?
+
+help will be appreciated !
+thanks
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000369.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000369.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f1713c76
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000369.html
@@ -0,0 +1,143 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:return%40trafficmagnet.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000368.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000371.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</H1>
+    <B>Christine Hall</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:return%40trafficmagnet.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG">return@trafficmagnet.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:17:54 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000368.html">[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000371.html">[Nel] Data format ?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#369">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#369">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#369">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#369">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;&lt;TITLE&gt;&lt;/TITLE&gt;
+&lt;META content=&quot;text/html; charset=iso-8859-1&quot; http-equiv=Content-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000&quot; name=GENERATOR&gt;&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=#ffffff&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot; width=1 height=1 border=0&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial size=2&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;Hello,&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;I visited 
+&lt;A href=<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;www.nevrax.org&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt; and I 
+noticed that you are not listed on some search engines. I am sure you can 
+increase the number of people who visit 
+&lt;A href=<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;www.nevrax.org&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt;. Do you know TrafficMagnet? TrafficMagnet is a unique technology that automatically submits your 
+web site to over 300,000+ search engines and directories every month. This is a 
+very low-cost and effective way of advertising your site. &lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;To check our prices and submit 
+&lt;A href=<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;www.nevrax.org&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt; to 
+300,000+ search engines, go to &lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;TrafficMagnet.net&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;I would love to hear from you. &lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;Best Regards,&lt;BR&gt;Christine Hall&lt;BR&gt;Sales &amp;amp; Marketing&lt;BR&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;www.TrafficMagnet.net&lt;/A&gt; 
+&lt;STYLE type=text/css&gt;.button {
+	BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc0000; COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-WEIGHT: bold
+}
+&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;
+&lt;TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 width=507&gt;
+  &lt;TBODY&gt;
+  &lt;TR&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=149&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg&quot;</A> 
+      width=149&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=59&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif&quot;</A> 
+      width=59&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=253&gt;
+      &lt;TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0&gt;
+        &lt;TBODY&gt;
+        &lt;TR&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=21&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=21&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=24 width=210&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG 
+            border=0 height=24 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=210&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=22&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=22&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;
+        &lt;TR&gt;
+          &lt;TD&gt;
+&lt;A Href = <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;&lt;IMG Src = <A HREF="http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg">http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg</A> Border=0 width=&quot;210&quot; height=&quot;141&quot;&gt;&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt;
+          &lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;
+        &lt;TR&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=25 width=210&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG 
+            border=0 height=25 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=210&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;/TBODY&gt;&lt;/TABLE&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=239&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=175 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif&quot;</A> 
+      width=239&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;
+  &lt;TR&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=149&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=48 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg&quot;</A> 
+      width=149&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=59&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD align=middle vAlign=bottom width=253&gt;
+	&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif&quot;</A>&gt;&lt;/A&gt;
+    &lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD align=right vAlign=bottom 
+width=239&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;/TBODY&gt;&lt;/TABLE&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000368.html">[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000371.html">[Nel] Data format ?</A></li>
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000371.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000371.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d978b6c3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000371.html
@@ -0,0 +1,64 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Data format ?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000369.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000372.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Data format ?</H1>
+    <B>Dim Segebart</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Data format ?">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:58 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000369.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000372.html">[Nel] CVS reorganisation</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#371">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#371">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#371">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#371">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello to all !
+I   have   some ideas  related to creation and storing of
+game's world data -
+I think,  it's technically possible to store all descriptions of game world
+in  XML  format. I just recall what in past days I have used DXF file
+format   to   interchange  my data between various CAD applications. By
+using of XML, I think, we can implement the same functionality
+as  with  DXF plus additional attributes which we need (i.e. textures,
+sounds,  etc.  etc.) It'll allow not to stick us just to 3DStudio, but
+use  any  3D design tool with published file format and converter from
+that  format to the NEL format. Is it possible to rewrite part of NeL,
+which   is   responsible  to reading game's data, the way it reads data
+directly from XML file? IMHO, it's not too hard.
+
+Comments ? Critics ?
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A>
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000369.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000372.html">[Nel] CVS reorganisation</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#371">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#371">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#371">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#371">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000373.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000373.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..8721494b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000373.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000372.html">
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+   <H1>[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</H1>
+    <B>robert@paradox.got.net</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse">robert@paradox.got.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:26:56 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000372.html">[Nel] CVS reorganisation</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Building latest CVS I get the following:
+
+client.cpp:433: cannot declare variable `ChatDisplayer' to be of type `CChatDisplayer'
+client.cpp:433:   since the following virtual functions are abstract:
+/usr/local/include/nel/misc/displayer.h:62:     void NLMISC::IDisplayer::doDisplay(long int, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType, const _STL::string &amp;, const char *, int, const char *)
+
+Anybody else getting this?  I'll figure it out myself if I'm the only
+one,  Otherwise I'd prefer to let someone who knows C++ deal with it.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot; meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                    -- login fortune
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000374.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000374.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</H1>
+    <B>Michael Warnock</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:01:12 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I got the same problem, you just beat me to reporting it:)
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment Inc.
+No matter where you go, &amp;this.
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@paradox.got.net">robert@paradox.got.net</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:26 PM
+Subject: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+
+
+&gt;<i> Building latest CVS I get the following:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> client.cpp:433: cannot declare variable `ChatDisplayer' to be of type
+</I>`CChatDisplayer'
+&gt;<i> client.cpp:433:   since the following virtual functions are abstract:
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/local/include/nel/misc/displayer.h:62:     void
+</I>NLMISC::IDisplayer::doDisplay(long int, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType, const
+_STL::string &amp;, const char *, int, const char *)
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Anybody else getting this?  I'll figure it out myself if I'm the only
+</I>&gt;<i> one,  Otherwise I'd prefer to let someone who knows C++ deal with it.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Robert
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Robert de Forest      &quot; meetings, n.:
+</I>&gt;<i> System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept
+</I>&gt;<i> Got.net                                and hours are lost.&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> &lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                    -- login fortune
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000376.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000376.html
new file mode 100644
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+   <H1>[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</H1>
+    <B>Pierre Bonnefoy</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:pierre%40mobivision.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse">pierre@mobivision.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:33:13 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>OK, I had the same problem as 'Robert' and Michael Warnock.
+
+Thank you Vianney for the fix, although, now, I have a different problem
+when compiling the client:
+
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/pierre/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2
+  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o
+login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o
+shards_list_interface.o sight.o
+lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/
+pierre/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear&lt;NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat&gt; type_info node'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear&lt;NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat&gt;::getValue(void)
+const'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear&lt;NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat&gt; type_info
+function'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear&lt;NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat&gt; virtual table'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear&lt;NL3D::CKeyQuat,
+NLMISC::CQuat&gt;::evalKey(NL3D::CKeyQuat const *, NL3D::CKeyQuat const *,
+float, float, float)'
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+
+
+I have also a problem when compiling the server, but there are many many
+error reports (file included).
+Moreover, I have a little problem first when compiling server : There is
+no --with-python option in configure, and, first, there was a problem as
+Python.h was not found. I added by and in makefile the path towards Python.h
+and subsequent files.
+Shouldn't --with-python option be included also in configure for server ?
+
+
+As a conclusion, I would like to thank people fom Nevrax and every people
+involved in Nevrax.org for such a great job !
+
+
+     Pierre Bonnefoy
+
+[Moderation note: attached file removed for posting in the mailing list]
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html
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+   <H1>[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:15:57 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+Pierre Bonnefoy wrote:
+&gt;<i> Thank you Vianney for the fix, although, now, I have a different problem
+</I>&gt;<i> when compiling the client:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+NeL's headers files are under heavy reorganization so we decide to freeze
+the development of the client until it's finished.
+
+So i strongly recommend to use the last Snowball release, Snowball 0.2, 
+which can be download on <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>
+
+
+&gt;<i> I have also a problem when compiling the server, but there are many many
+</I>&gt;<i> error reports (file included).
+</I>
+i'm going to take a look on that ...
+
+&gt;<i> Moreover, I have a little problem first when compiling server : There is
+</I>&gt;<i> no --with-python option in configure, and, first, there was a problem as
+</I>&gt;<i> Python.h was not found. I added by and in makefile the path towards Python.h
+</I>&gt;<i> and subsequent files.
+</I>&gt;<i> Shouldn't --with-python option be included also in configure for server ?
+</I>
+It's on my task list for a long time, sorry about that, I will do it
+today ...
+
+&gt;<i> As a conclusion, I would like to thank people fom Nevrax and every people
+</I>&gt;<i> involved in Nevrax.org for such a great job !
+</I>
+Thanks :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+   <H1>[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</H1>
+    <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:57:42 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>
+</I>c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/pierre/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2
+&gt;<i>   -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o
+</I>&gt;<i> login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o
+</I>&gt;<i> shards_list_interface.o sight.o
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/
+&gt;<i> pierre/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+</I>&gt;<i> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+</I>&gt;<i> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear&lt;NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat&gt; type_info
+</I>node'
+&gt;<i> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+</I>&gt;<i> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear&lt;NL3D::CKeyQuat,
+</I>NLMISC::CQuat&gt;::getValue(void)
+&gt;<i> const'
+</I>
+I have fixed that bug. It should be on the cvs tonight (GMT+1).
+
+*** For c++ addicts, here is the problem ***
+
+The link failed under GCC when we use non-inline functions in a template
+implementation.
+No problem with Visual C++ 6.0.
+
+It looked like this:
+
+in the .h file:
+-----------
+
+// Two template classes
+template&lt;class T&gt;
+class a
+{
+    virtual void toto()=0;
+};
+
+template&lt;class T&gt;
+class b : public a&lt;T&gt;
+{
+    virtual void toto()
+    {
+        ...
+    };
+};
+
+// The second one is implemented, but toto function body is in the .cpp
+file.
+class b&lt;int&gt; : public a&lt;int&gt;
+{
+    virtual void toto();
+};
+
+In the .cpp:
+-----------
+virtual void b&lt;int&gt;::toto()
+{
+    ...
+};
+
+The fixe was to let the toto body inline in the header.
+
+Any comments ?
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000379.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000379.html
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+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</TITLE>
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+   <H1>[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</H1>
+    <B>loic@senga.org</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:loic%40senga.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage">loic@senga.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:01:48 +0100 (CET)</I>
+    <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>The message of AC_MSG_CHECKING is included in double quotes and should
+not (double quote included alread -&gt; &lt;&gt; act as redirections).
+
+[<A HREF="mailto:loic@loic">loic@loic</A> nel]$ cvs diff -c configure.in
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -c -c -r1.23 configure.in
+*** configure.in	2001/02/26 17:46:48	1.23
+--- configure.in	2001/03/14 17:14:26
+***************
+*** 217,223 ****
+  )
+  
+  dnl Checking the GLEXT version
+! AC_MSG_CHECKING(&quot;for &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; version&quot;)
+  AC_EGREP_CPP( yo_glext_version,
+  [#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;
+  #ifdef GL_GLEXT_VERSION
+--- 217,223 ----
+  )
+  
+  dnl Checking the GLEXT version
+! AC_MSG_CHECKING(for &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; version)
+  AC_EGREP_CPP( yo_glext_version,
+  [#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;
+  #ifdef GL_GLEXT_VERSION
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         <A HREF="http://www.dachary.org/">http://www.dachary.org/</A>  <A HREF="mailto:loic@dachary.org">loic@dachary.org</A>
+24 av Secretan         <A HREF="http://www.senga.org/">http://www.senga.org/</A>      <A HREF="mailto:loic@senga.org">loic@senga.org</A>
+75019    Paris         Tel: 33 1 42 45 09 16        <A HREF="mailto:loic@gnu.org">loic@gnu.org</A>
+        GPG Public Key: <A HREF="http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt">http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000380.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000380.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a3029a99
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000379.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000383.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:34:47 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000379.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000383.html">[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#380">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE><A HREF="mailto:loic@senga.org">loic@senga.org</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> The message of AC_MSG_CHECKING is included in double quotes and should
+</I>&gt;<i> not (double quote included alread -&gt; &lt;&gt; act as redirections).
+</I>
+Fixed.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000381.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000381.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..37cd8c62
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000381.html
@@ -0,0 +1,78 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000378.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000391.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</H1>
+    <B>robert@paradox.got.net</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40paradox.got.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse">robert@paradox.got.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:23:43 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000378.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000391.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
+&gt;<i> *** For c++ addicts, here is the problem ***
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> The link failed under GCC when we use non-inline functions in a template
+</I>&gt;<i> implementation.
+</I>&gt;<i> No problem with Visual C++ 6.0.
+</I>
+What is your programming environment like?  Do you have equal parts
+Windows and Unix develovers?  What kind of testing do you have?
+Judging by the dates in CVS it looks like you've been developing for
+about five months, is this correct?  Is all of your development staff
+focused on the GPL'd parts right now, or is some development already
+underway for the proprietary content (game code)?
+
+Is someone over there working on documentation?  Is there a public
+document describing your objectives and plans?
+
+I'm also still curious in which ways the non-nevrax community can best
+assist your efforts.  It seems the bug reports and patches are
+well-received, but without much documentation it's hard to tell where
+our efforts are most needed.
+
+Thanks!
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot; meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                    -- login fortune
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000383.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000383.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..6941f7a9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000383.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000380.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000384.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:43:15 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000380.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000384.html">[Nel] list</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#383">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#383">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+We improved the Python detection and NeL configuration :
+
+    you do not have to use --with-python as an argument for the
+    configure script, now it's automatic ...
+
+We fixed the server compilation, so it should compile with today's
+NeL cvs files, but the agent service doesn't work at the momment,
+you will get a segmentation fault if you try to launch it :-(
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000384.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000384.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..30a489ee
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000384.html
@@ -0,0 +1,48 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] list</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nettwerk%40valinux.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000383.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000385.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] list</H1>
+    <B>San Mehat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nettwerk%40valinux.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] list">nettwerk@valinux.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:57:50 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000383.html">[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000385.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#384">[ date ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#384">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>list
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000383.html">[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</A></li>
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+         </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000385.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000385.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2060c9f8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000385.html
@@ -0,0 +1,143 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:return%40trafficmagnet.net">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000384.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000386.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</H1>
+    <B>Christine Hall</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:return%40trafficmagnet.net"
+       TITLE="[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG">return@trafficmagnet.net</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:00:07 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000384.html">[Nel] list</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#385">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#385">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#385">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#385">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;&lt;TITLE&gt;&lt;/TITLE&gt;
+&lt;META content=&quot;text/html; charset=iso-8859-1&quot; http-equiv=Content-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=&quot;MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000&quot; name=GENERATOR&gt;&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=#ffffff&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot; width=1 height=1 border=0&gt;&lt;FONT face=Arial size=2&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;Hello,&lt;BR&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;I visited 
+&lt;A href=<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;www.nevrax.org&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt; and I 
+noticed that you are not listed on some search engines. I am sure you can 
+increase the number of people who visit 
+&lt;A href=<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;www.nevrax.org&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt;. Do you know TrafficMagnet? TrafficMagnet is a unique technology that automatically submits your 
+web site to over 300,000+ search engines and directories every month. This is a 
+very low-cost and effective way of advertising your site. &lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;To check our prices and submit 
+&lt;A href=<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;www.nevrax.org&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt; to 
+300,000+ search engines, go to &lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;TrafficMagnet.net&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;I would love to hear from you. &lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;Best Regards,&lt;BR&gt;Christine Hall&lt;BR&gt;Sales &amp;amp; Marketing&lt;BR&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;www.TrafficMagnet.net&lt;/A&gt; 
+&lt;STYLE type=text/css&gt;.button {
+	BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc0000; COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-WEIGHT: bold
+}
+&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/P&gt;
+&lt;P&gt;
+&lt;TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 width=507&gt;
+  &lt;TBODY&gt;
+  &lt;TR&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=149&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg&quot;</A> 
+      width=149&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=59&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif&quot;</A> 
+      width=59&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=253&gt;
+      &lt;TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0&gt;
+        &lt;TBODY&gt;
+        &lt;TR&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=21&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=21&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=24 width=210&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG 
+            border=0 height=24 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=210&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=22&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=22&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;
+        &lt;TR&gt;
+          &lt;TD&gt;
+&lt;A Href = <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>&gt;&lt;IMG Src = <A HREF="http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg">http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg</A> Border=0 width=&quot;210&quot; height=&quot;141&quot;&gt;&lt;/A&gt;
+&lt;/A&gt;
+          &lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;
+        &lt;TR&gt;
+          &lt;TD height=25 width=210&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG 
+            border=0 height=25 
+            src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg&quot;</A> 
+            width=210&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;/TBODY&gt;&lt;/TABLE&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=239&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=175 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif&quot;</A> 
+      width=239&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;
+  &lt;TR&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=149&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 
+      height=48 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg&quot;</A> 
+      width=149&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD width=59&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD align=middle vAlign=bottom width=253&gt;
+	&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=">http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=</A>
+<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+&quot;&gt;&lt;IMG border=0 src=&quot;<A HREF="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif"">http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif&quot;</A>&gt;&lt;/A&gt;
+    &lt;/TD&gt;
+    &lt;TD align=right vAlign=bottom 
+width=239&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;/TBODY&gt;&lt;/TABLE&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000384.html">[Nel] list</A></li>
+	<LI> Next message: <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="author.html#385">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000387.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000387.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000387.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Is this list dead?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40wrack.thatsnice.org">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000386.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000388.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Is this list dead?</H1>
+    <B>robert@wrack.thatsnice.org</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:robert%40wrack.thatsnice.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Is this list dead?">robert@wrack.thatsnice.org</A><BR>
+    <I>Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:57:50 -0800 (PST)</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000388.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#387">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#387">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#387">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#387">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+</I>
+We're waiting for the Nevrax folks to tell us they're done
+re-arranging the NeL layout.  Check it out:
+
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html</A>
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      &quot;Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life.&quot;
+&lt;<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>&gt;                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#387">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000388.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000388.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..03118dde
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000388.html
@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Is this list dead?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:damien%40mandrakesoft.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000387.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000389.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Is this list dead?</H1>
+    <B>dam's</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:damien%40mandrakesoft.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Is this list dead?">damien@mandrakesoft.com</A><BR>
+    <I>28 Mar 2001 05:14:57 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000387.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000389.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#388">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#388">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#388">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#388">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE><A HREF="mailto:robert@wrack.thatsnice.org">robert@wrack.thatsnice.org</A> writes:
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; 
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> We're waiting for the Nevrax folks to tell us they're done
+</I>&gt;<i> re-arranging the NeL layout.  Check it out:
+</I>&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html</A>
+</I>
+ok, great ! 
+
+-- 
+dam's
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+              <a href="author.html#388">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000389.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000389.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d8431e21
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000389.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Is this list dead?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000388.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000390.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Is this list dead?</H1>
+    <B>Vincent Archer</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Is this list dead?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:23:21 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000388.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000390.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#389">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#389">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#389">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#389">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to dam's:
+&gt;<i> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+</I>
+Which is the second time it got on this list. Trafficmagnet will soon land
+in the forbidden domain list here.
+
+No, the list is unusually quiet these days. Chalk it up to GDC (Games
+Developpers Conference, for those of you not familiar with the industry).
+We're edging on toward our first internal milestone, so we haven't started
+a new discussion, and apparently we haven't had a major hiccup in the CVS
+recently... so we have fewer complaints than the usual too.
+
+The web server overhaul mentioned is close to done (but we're overhauling
+our internal web tools too, so that takes time). Expect a more up-to-date
+documentation.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000388.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
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+              <a href="author.html#389">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000390.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000390.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..cbdf5cb5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000390.html
@@ -0,0 +1,85 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] Is this list dead?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:Matthew.Flagg%40channelinx.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000389.html">
+   
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] Is this list dead?</H1>
+    <B>Matthew Flagg</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:Matthew.Flagg%40channelinx.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] Is this list dead?">Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:27:59 -0500</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000389.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+        
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#390">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#390">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#390">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#390">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I replied not only to that email but every contact address on their site and
+politely, in two lines, asked them to not use our developer's list as spam
+receptacle.  I tried before but I guess they didn't get it.  Maybe we should
+actually subscribe them to the list! :)  That way they would know exactly
+whats going on. :)
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Vincent Archer [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>]
+Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 3:23 AM
+To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+
+
+According to dam's:
+&gt;<i> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except
+</I>some ad.
+
+Which is the second time it got on this list. Trafficmagnet will soon land
+in the forbidden domain list here.
+
+No, the list is unusually quiet these days. Chalk it up to GDC (Games
+Developpers Conference, for those of you not familiar with the industry).
+We're edging on toward our first internal milestone, so we haven't started
+a new discussion, and apparently we haven't had a major hiccup in the CVS
+recently... so we have fewer complaints than the usual too.
+
+The web server overhaul mentioned is close to done (but we're overhauling
+our internal web tools too, so that takes time). Expect a more up-to-date
+documentation.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email:
+<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we
+go!
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000389.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A></li>
+	
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
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+              <a href="thread.html#390">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#390">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000391.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000391.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..5c8dc028
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000391.html
@@ -0,0 +1,113 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000381.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000382.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</H1>
+    <B>Cedric Valignat</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:53:19 +0200</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000381.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000382.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#391">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#391">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#391">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#391">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE><A HREF="mailto:robert@paradox.got.net">robert@paradox.got.net</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> 
+</I>&gt;<i> What is your programming environment like?
+</I>
+On Windows computers :
+
+   Windows 2000
+   Visual C++ 6.0
+   WinCVS and TortoiseCVS
+
+On GNU/Linux computers :
+
+   Debian, Redhat and Mandrake distributions
+   GCC 2.95.2 and 2.96 (yes i now :-)
+   Emacs, XEmacs, or kdevelop
+   DDD / GDB
+
+
+&gt;<i> Do you have equal parts Windows and Unix develovers?
+</I>
+Most of us are working on Windows, the VC++ debuging system is a lot more
+appreciated by some of us :-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> What kind of testing do you have?
+</I>
+We have two major way of testing our work :
+
+   using Snowball as a test program
+   and / or writing small applications to test specific functionalities.
+
+It's very basic :-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> Judging by the dates in CVS it looks like you've been developing for
+</I>&gt;<i> about five months, is this correct?
+</I>
+We started coding approximately 10 months ago. We developed some code
+to make some tests to make some decisions about the technologie to
+use and some other points ...
+
+
+&gt;<i> Is all of your development staff focused on the GPL'd parts right
+</I>&gt;<i> now, or is some development already underway for the proprietary
+</I>&gt;<i> content (game code)?
+</I>
+We have been working on the our game code for some time now, so we are
+currently working on both parts, GPL and proprietary code.
+
+
+&gt;<i> Is someone over there working on documentation?  Is there a public
+</I>&gt;<i> document describing your objectives and plans?
+</I>
+We are currently working on the documentation, and we should be able to
+make our work available soon ;-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> I'm also still curious in which ways the non-nevrax community can best
+</I>&gt;<i> assist your efforts.  It seems the bug reports and patches are
+</I>&gt;<i> well-received, but without much documentation it's hard to tell where
+</I>&gt;<i> our efforts are most needed.
+</I>
+Our documentions will include a roadmap and other related documents, so
+you should be able get a better idea on what we are doing and on what
+we plan to work on ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000381.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A></li>
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#391">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#391">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#391">[ author ]</a>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..04f6fbc5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,126 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-March Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-March Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Mar  1 01:39:53 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 81<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000314.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="314"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000317.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="317"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000328.html">[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled</A> <A NAME="328"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000344.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="344"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000347.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="347"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000348.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="348"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000350.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="350"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000367.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="367"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000372.html">[Nel] CVS reorganisation</A> <A NAME="372"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000389.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="389"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000336.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="336"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000363.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="363"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000376.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="376"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000382.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="382"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000345.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="345"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000351.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="351"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000320.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="320"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000321.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="321"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000327.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="327"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000326.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="326"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000378.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="378"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000352.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="352"></A><I>Kenneth Duda</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000331.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="331"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000390.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="390"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000368.html">[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</A> <A NAME="368"></A><I>Antoine Hahusseau</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000369.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="369"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000385.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="385"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000310.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="310"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000311.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="311"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000316.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="316"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000360.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="360"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000337.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="337"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000341.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="341"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000364.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="364"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000365.html">[Nel] 'data/' bug</A> <A NAME="365"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000375.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="375"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000332.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="332"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000333.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="333"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000384.html">[Nel] list</A> <A NAME="384"></A><I>San Mehat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000318.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="318"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000319.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="319"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000371.html">[Nel] Data format ?</A> <A NAME="371"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000313.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="313"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000322.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="322"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000342.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="342"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000343.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="343"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000346.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="346"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000349.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="349"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000377.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="377"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000380.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="380"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000383.html">[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</A> <A NAME="383"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000391.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="391"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000324.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="324"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000325.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="325"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000340.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="340"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000353.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="353"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000374.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="374"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="386"></A><I>dam's</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000388.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="388"></A><I>dam's</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000338.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="338"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000366.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="366"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000379.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="379"></A><I>loic@senga.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000312.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="312"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000323.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="323"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000339.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="339"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000355.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="355"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000356.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="356"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000335.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="335"></A><I>papakane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000334.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="334"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000354.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="354"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000357.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="357"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000358.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="358"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000359.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="359"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000361.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="361"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000362.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="362"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000373.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="373"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000381.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="381"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000387.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="387"></A><I>robert@wrack.thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000315.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="315"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000329.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="329"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000330.html">[Nel] Network Connections 2</A> <A NAME="330"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0d9ebd12
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,126 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-March Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-March Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Mar  1 01:39:53 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 81<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000310.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="310"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000311.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="311"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000313.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="313"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000312.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="312"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000315.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="315"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000314.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="314"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000316.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="316"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000317.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="317"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000318.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="318"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000319.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="319"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000320.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="320"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000321.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="321"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000322.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="322"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000323.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="323"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000324.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="324"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000325.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="325"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000327.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="327"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000326.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="326"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000328.html">[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled</A> <A NAME="328"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000329.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="329"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000330.html">[Nel] Network Connections 2</A> <A NAME="330"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000331.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="331"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000332.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="332"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000333.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="333"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000334.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="334"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000352.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="352"></A><I>Kenneth Duda</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000335.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="335"></A><I>papakane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000336.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="336"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000337.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="337"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000338.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="338"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000339.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="339"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000340.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="340"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000341.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="341"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000342.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="342"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000343.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="343"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000344.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="344"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000345.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="345"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000346.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="346"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000347.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="347"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000348.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="348"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000349.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="349"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000350.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="350"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000351.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="351"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000353.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="353"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000354.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="354"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000357.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="357"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000355.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="355"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000356.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="356"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000358.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="358"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000359.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="359"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000360.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="360"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000361.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="361"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000362.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="362"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000363.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="363"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000364.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="364"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000365.html">[Nel] 'data/' bug</A> <A NAME="365"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000366.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="366"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000367.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="367"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000368.html">[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</A> <A NAME="368"></A><I>Antoine Hahusseau</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000369.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="369"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000371.html">[Nel] Data format ?</A> <A NAME="371"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000372.html">[Nel] CVS reorganisation</A> <A NAME="372"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000373.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="373"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000374.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="374"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000375.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="375"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000376.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="376"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000377.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="377"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000378.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="378"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000379.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="379"></A><I>loic@senga.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000380.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="380"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000381.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="381"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000382.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="382"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000383.html">[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</A> <A NAME="383"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000384.html">[Nel] list</A> <A NAME="384"></A><I>San Mehat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000385.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="385"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="386"></A><I>dam's</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000387.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="387"></A><I>robert@wrack.thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000388.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="388"></A><I>dam's</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000389.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="389"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000390.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="390"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000391.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="391"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..78c1830d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,126 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-March Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-March Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Mar  1 01:39:53 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 81<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000365.html">[Nel] 'data/' bug</A> <A NAME="365"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000355.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="355"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000356.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="356"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000312.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="312"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000321.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="321"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000323.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="323"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000326.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="326"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000339.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="339"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000340.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="340"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000341.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="341"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000342.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="342"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000344.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="344"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000346.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="346"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000353.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="353"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000364.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="364"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000379.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="379"></A><I>loic@senga.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000380.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="380"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000372.html">[Nel] CVS reorganisation</A> <A NAME="372"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000371.html">[Nel] Data format ?</A> <A NAME="371"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000310.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="310"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000362.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="362"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000363.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="363"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="386"></A><I>dam's</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000387.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="387"></A><I>robert@wrack.thatsnice.org</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000388.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="388"></A><I>dam's</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000389.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="389"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000390.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="390"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000384.html">[Nel] list</A> <A NAME="384"></A><I>San Mehat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000311.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="311"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000314.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="314"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000316.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="316"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000315.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="315"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000317.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="317"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000324.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="324"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000325.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="325"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000329.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="329"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000331.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="331"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000330.html">[Nel] Network Connections 2</A> <A NAME="330"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000352.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="352"></A><I>Kenneth Duda</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000338.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="338"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000366.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="366"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000367.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="367"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000345.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="345"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000349.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="349"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000350.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="350"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000351.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="351"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000368.html">[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</A> <A NAME="368"></A><I>Antoine Hahusseau</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000335.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="335"></A><I>papakane</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000337.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="337"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000328.html">[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled</A> <A NAME="328"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000332.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="332"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000347.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="347"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000359.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="359"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000360.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="360"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000361.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="361"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000383.html">[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</A> <A NAME="383"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000333.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="333"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000348.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="348"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000354.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="354"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000357.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="357"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000358.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="358"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000313.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="313"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000318.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="318"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000320.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="320"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000322.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="322"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000327.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="327"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000373.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="373"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000374.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="374"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000375.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="375"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000376.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="376"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000377.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="377"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000378.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="378"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000381.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="381"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000382.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="382"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000391.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="391"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000334.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="334"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000336.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="336"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000343.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="343"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000369.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="369"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000385.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="385"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000319.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="319"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9ca85dbb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,275 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-March Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-March Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Mar  1 01:39:53 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 81<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00983407193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000310.html">[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)</A> <A NAME="1220"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<!--0 00983411111- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000311.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1221"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983411111-00983433141- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000314.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1224"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983411111-00983433141-00983435587- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000316.html">[Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1226"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983421935- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000313.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="1223"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983421935-00983442382- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000318.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="1228"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--1 00983421935-00983449057- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000320.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="1230"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983425790- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000312.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="1222"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983425790-00983449571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000321.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="1231"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<!--1 00983425790-00983530237- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000326.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="1236"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983432909- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000315.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="1225"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983432909-00983439995- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000317.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="1227"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--1 00983432909-00983482696- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000324.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="1234"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983432909-00983482696-00983486475- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000325.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="1235"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00983432909-00983482696-00983486475-00983557112- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000331.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="1241"></A><I>Charles Dupont</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983442899- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000319.html">Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine</A> <A NAME="1229"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--0 00983457671- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000322.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="1232"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983457671-00983520876- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000327.html">[Nel] STLPort...</A> <A NAME="1237"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983464018- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000323.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="1233"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<!--0 00983545752- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000328.html">[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled</A> <A NAME="1238"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00983552962- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000329.html">[Nel] Network Connections</A> <A NAME="1239"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<!--0 00983554126- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000330.html">[Nel] Network Connections 2</A> <A NAME="1240"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<!--0 00983572716- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000332.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="1242"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983572716-00983888648- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000347.html">[Nel] Screenshots</A> <A NAME="1257"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983574943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000333.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="1243"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983574943-00983889592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000348.html">[Nel] Some misc questions</A> <A NAME="1258"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983606759- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000334.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="1244"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983606759-00983780365- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000336.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="1246"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<!--1 00983606759-00983885414- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000343.html">[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries</A> <A NAME="1253"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983748057- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000335.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="1245"></A><I>papakane</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983748057-00983781684- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000337.html">[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h</A> <A NAME="1247"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983847942- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000338.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="1248"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983847942-00983610154- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000352.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="1262"></A><I>Kenneth Duda</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983853580- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000339.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1249"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983853580-00983856160- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000340.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1250"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983853580-00983856160-00983867731- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000341.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1251"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00983853580-00983856160-00983867731-00983904152- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000353.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1263"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<!--3 00983853580-00983856160-00983867731-00983904152-00983966751- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000364.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1274"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00983853580-00983885123- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000342.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1252"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983853580-00983885123-00983886419- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000344.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1254"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00983853580-00983885123-00983886419-00983887506- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000346.html">[Nel] compile.cpp</A> <A NAME="1256"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983886835- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000345.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="1255"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983886835-00983893293- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000349.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="1259"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983886835-00983893293-00983894209- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000351.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="1261"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00983886835-00983893963- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000350.html">[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS</A> <A NAME="1260"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983933987- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000354.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="1264"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983933987-00983935343- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000357.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="1267"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983933987-00983935343-00983941911- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000358.html">[Nel] still having data/ problem</A> <A NAME="1268"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983938767- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000355.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="1265"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<!--0 00983938938- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000356.html">[Nel] client trouble</A> <A NAME="1266"></A><I>nel@elwar.com</I>
+<!--0 00983943039- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000359.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="1269"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983943039-00983944202- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000360.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="1270"></A><I>Leighton Haynes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983943039-00983944202-00983946264- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000361.html">[Nel] segv if I press alt?</A> <A NAME="1271"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00983954014- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000362.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="1272"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00983954014-00983959161- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000363.html">[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used</A> <A NAME="1273"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00983954014-00983959161-00983967917- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000365.html">[Nel] 'data/' bug</A> <A NAME="1275"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00984013366- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000366.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="1276"></A><I>jaleco</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00984013366-00984043537- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000367.html">[Nel] newbies about packet schema</A> <A NAME="1277"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00984073805- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000368.html">[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98</A> <A NAME="1278"></A><I>Antoine Hahusseau</I>
+<!--0 00984093474- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000369.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="1279"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<!--0 00984412438- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000371.html">[Nel] Data format ?</A> <A NAME="1281"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--0 00984413145- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000372.html">[Nel] CVS reorganisation</A> <A NAME="1282"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00984443216- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000373.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1283"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00984443216-00984452472- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000374.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1284"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00984443216-00984452472-00984472776- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000375.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1285"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00984443216-00984452472-00984472776-00984555193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000376.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1286"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+<!--3 00984443216-00984452472-00984472776-00984555193-00984564957- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000377.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1287"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00984443216-00984452472-00984472776-00984555193-00984581862- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000378.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1288"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<!--3 00984443216-00984452472-00984472776-00984555193-00984581862-00984612223- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000381.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1291"></A><I>robert@paradox.got.net</I>
+<!--3 00984443216-00984452472-00984472776-00984555193-00984581862-00984612223-00985798399- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000391.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1301"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--3 00984443216-00984452472-00984472776-00984555193-00984581862-00984674259- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000382.html">[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse</A> <A NAME="1292"></A><I>Pierre Bonnefoy</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00984582108- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000379.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="1289"></A><I>loic@senga.org</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00984582108-00984587687- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000380.html">[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage</A> <A NAME="1290"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00984681795- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000383.html">[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs</A> <A NAME="1293"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00985114670- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000384.html">[Nel] list</A> <A NAME="1294"></A><I>San Mehat</I>
+<!--0 00985658407- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000385.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="1295"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00985658407-00985737472- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000386.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="1296"></A><I>dam's</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00985658407-00985737472-00985744670- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000387.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="1297"></A><I>robert@wrack.thatsnice.org</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00985658407-00985737472-00985744670-00985745697- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000388.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="1298"></A><I>dam's</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 00985658407-00985737472-00985764201- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000389.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="1299"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00985782479- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000390.html">[Nel] Is this list dead?</A> <A NAME="1300"></A><I>Matthew Flagg</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
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+                    </a></b></li>
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+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
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+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-May/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..0d4ce8c9
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-May Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-May Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
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+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue May  1 03:44:36 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 3<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000414.html">[Nel] NURBS</A> <A NAME="414"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000415.html">[Nel] New NeL's network interfaces and code ...</A> <A NAME="415"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000416.html">[Nel] Modification to the interface of IStream</A> <A NAME="416"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
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+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-May/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/date.html
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+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-May Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-May Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
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+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue May  1 03:44:36 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 3<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000414.html">[Nel] NURBS</A> <A NAME="414"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000415.html">[Nel] New NeL's network interfaces and code ...</A> <A NAME="415"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000416.html">[Nel] Modification to the interface of IStream</A> <A NAME="416"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
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+
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+     <title>The Nel 2001-May Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
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+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-May Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
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+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue May  1 03:44:36 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 3<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000416.html">[Nel] Modification to the interface of IStream</A> <A NAME="416"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000415.html">[Nel] New NeL's network interfaces and code ...</A> <A NAME="415"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000414.html">[Nel] NURBS</A> <A NAME="414"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
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+
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+  </HEAD>
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+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-May Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
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+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue May  1 03:44:36 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 3<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00988681476- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000414.html">[Nel] NURBS</A> <A NAME="1324"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I>
+<!--0 00988966803- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000415.html">[Nel] New NeL's network interfaces and code ...</A> <A NAME="1325"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 00989570211- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000416.html">[Nel] Modification to the interface of IStream</A> <A NAME="1326"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
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+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
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+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/000760.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/000760.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zen%40lapisonline.com">
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="000757.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000761.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</H1>
+    <B>zen</B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:zen%40lapisonline.com"
+       TITLE="[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?">zen@lapisonline.com</A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:21:47 +0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000757.html">[Nel] Compile error</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000761.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#760">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#760">[ thread ]</a>
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+              <a href="author.html#760">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all,
+
+I've try to compile the object viewer and got the messages followed:
+
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+
+I have no idea how come this happened. The header file looks fine and =
+I've successfully compile the snowball2 thus it should be correct, =
+right?
+
+Please help me out!
+
+By the way , I want to study the code, and maybe I can offer some help, =
+for example, debug, where should I start? Should possess any expertise =
+first?
+
+Sincerely,
+
+Zen Jean
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;big5&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Dbig5&quot; http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2&gt;Hi all,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2&gt;I've try to compile the =
+object viewer and got the=20
+messages followed:&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9=20
+size=3D2&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error =
+C2589: '('=20
+:<i> illegal token on right side of=20
+</I>'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'&lt;BR&gt;D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : '::'&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2&gt;I have no idea how come =
+this happened. The header=20
+file looks fine and I've successfully compile the snowball2 thus it =
+should be=20
+correct, right?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2&gt;Please help me =
+out!&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2&gt;By the way , I want to =
+study the code, and maybe I=20
+can offer some help, for example, debug, where should I start? Should =
+possess=20
+any expertise first?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2&gt;Sincerely,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2&gt;Zen =
+Jean&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#760">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#760">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#760">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#760">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f60eb11e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,104 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-November Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-November Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov  4 16:31:42 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 59<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000729.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="729"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000726.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="726"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000731.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="731"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000732.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="732"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000733.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="733"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000734.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="734"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000742.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="742"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000748.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="748"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000765.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="765"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000766.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</A> <A NAME="766"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000741.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="741"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000743.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="743"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000723.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="723"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000728.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="728"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000750.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="750"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000753.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="753"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000744.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="744"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000769.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="769"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000747.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="747"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000749.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="749"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000767.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="767"></A><I>Francois Lagunas</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000715.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="715"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000717.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="717"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000719.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="719"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000720.html">[Nel] itaslive is alive</A> <A NAME="720"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000722.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="722"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000724.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="724"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000727.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="727"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000736.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="736"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000756.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="756"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000761.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="761"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000763.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="763"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000751.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="751"></A><I>Nel List</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000714.html">[Nel] help</A> <A NAME="714"></A><I>Prashant Pansare</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000755.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="755"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000762.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="762"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000764.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="764"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000746.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="746"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000752.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="752"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000770.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="770"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000768.html">[Nel] So many services!</A> <A NAME="768"></A><I>Paul Siegel</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000718.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="718"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000725.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="725"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000737.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="737"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000738.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="738"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000739.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="739"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000754.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="754"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000757.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="757"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000758.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="758"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000759.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="759"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000771.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="771"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000713.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="713"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000740.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="740"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000716.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="716"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000721.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="721"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000735.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="735"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000730.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="730"></A><I>dee115</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000745.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="745"></A><I>delire</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000760.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="760"></A><I>zen</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 18:14:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..dea6ad4b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,104 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-November Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-November Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov  4 16:31:42 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 59<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000713.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="713"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000714.html">[Nel] help</A> <A NAME="714"></A><I>Prashant Pansare</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000715.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="715"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000716.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="716"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000717.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="717"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000718.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="718"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000719.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="719"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000720.html">[Nel] itaslive is alive</A> <A NAME="720"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000721.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="721"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000722.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="722"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000723.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="723"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000724.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="724"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000725.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="725"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000726.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="726"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000727.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="727"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000729.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="729"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000728.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="728"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000731.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="731"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000732.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="732"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000733.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="733"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000734.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="734"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000730.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="730"></A><I>dee115</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000735.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="735"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000736.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="736"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000737.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="737"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000738.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="738"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000739.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="739"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000740.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="740"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000741.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="741"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000742.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="742"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000743.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="743"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000744.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="744"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000745.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="745"></A><I>delire</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000746.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="746"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000747.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="747"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000748.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="748"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000749.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="749"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000750.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="750"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000751.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="751"></A><I>Nel List</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000752.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="752"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000753.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="753"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000754.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="754"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000755.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="755"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000756.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="756"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000757.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="757"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000758.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="758"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000759.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="759"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000760.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="760"></A><I>zen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000761.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="761"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000762.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="762"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000763.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="763"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000764.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="764"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000765.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="765"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000766.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</A> <A NAME="766"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000767.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="767"></A><I>Francois Lagunas</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000768.html">[Nel] So many services!</A> <A NAME="768"></A><I>Paul Siegel</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000769.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="769"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000770.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="770"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000771.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="771"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 18:14:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b88b91c0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,104 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-November Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-November Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov  4 16:31:42 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 59<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000745.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="745"></A><I>delire</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000746.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="746"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000713.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="713"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000715.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="715"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000723.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="723"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000724.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="724"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000716.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="716"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000717.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="717"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000755.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="755"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000756.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="756"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000757.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="757"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000753.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="753"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000758.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="758"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000714.html">[Nel] help</A> <A NAME="714"></A><I>Prashant Pansare</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000769.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="769"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000770.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="770"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000760.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="760"></A><I>zen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000761.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="761"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000720.html">[Nel] itaslive is alive</A> <A NAME="720"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000740.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="740"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000741.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="741"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000731.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="731"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000739.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="739"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000742.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="742"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000733.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="733"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000730.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="730"></A><I>dee115</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000732.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="732"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000734.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="734"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000738.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="738"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000762.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="762"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000763.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="763"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000764.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="764"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000767.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="767"></A><I>Francois Lagunas</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000771.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="771"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000747.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="747"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000748.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="748"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000721.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="721"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000722.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="722"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000725.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="725"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000735.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="735"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000736.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="736"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000737.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="737"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000751.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="751"></A><I>Nel List</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000752.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="752"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000754.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="754"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000743.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="743"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000744.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="744"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000766.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</A> <A NAME="766"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000718.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="718"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000719.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="719"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000749.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="749"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000759.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="759"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000765.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="765"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000768.html">[Nel] So many services!</A> <A NAME="768"></A><I>Paul Siegel</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000729.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="729"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000728.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="728"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000726.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="726"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000727.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="727"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000750.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="750"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 18:14:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..071c7205
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,215 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-November Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-November Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Nov  4 16:31:42 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 59<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01004887902- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000713.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="1623"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004887902-01004950127- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000715.html">[Nel] buildig nel/snowballs</A> <A NAME="1625"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004928682- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000714.html">[Nel] help</A> <A NAME="1624"></A><I>Prashant Pansare</I>
+<!--0 01005018883- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000716.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="1626"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005018883-01005035346- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000717.html">[Nel] Cannot start server.</A> <A NAME="1627"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005055138- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000718.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="1628"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 01005056378- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000719.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="1629"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<!--0 01005063272- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000720.html">[Nel] itaslive is alive</A> <A NAME="1630"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<!--0 01005092069- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000721.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="1631"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005092069-01005123225- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000722.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="1632"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<!--1 01005092069-01005148543- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000725.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="1635"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005137571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000723.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="1633"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005137571-01005137764- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000724.html">[Nel] Cannot connect to itsalive.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="1634"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005149815- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000726.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="1636"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005149815-01005151186- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000727.html">[Nel] STL question</A> <A NAME="1637"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005217610- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000728.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="1638"></A><I>Dee</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005217610-01005215951- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000729.html">[Nel] Sound and OpenAL</A> <A NAME="1639"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005240250- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000731.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="1641"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005240250-01005571882- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000739.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="1649"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005241586- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000732.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="1642"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005241586-01005242528- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000734.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="1644"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01005241586-01005242528-01005570394- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000738.html">[Nel] Linux: snowballs (almost) running</A> <A NAME="1648"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005260797- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000730.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="1640"></A><I>dee115</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005260797-01005242472- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000733.html">[Nel] Linux Error when compile Nel 3d</A> <A NAME="1643"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005337573- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000735.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="1645"></A><I>WLeung@powerlan.com.au</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005337573-01005552999- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000736.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="1646"></A><I>Vianney Lecoart</I>
+<!--1 01005337573-01005570171- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000737.html">[Nel] RE: Cannot start server</A> <A NAME="1647"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005837294- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000740.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="1650"></A><I>Ruud Verdonck</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01005837294-01005923032- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000741.html">[Nel] Landscape</A> <A NAME="1651"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01005945056- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000742.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="1652"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--0 01006244706- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000743.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="1653"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01006244706-01006257646- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000744.html">[Nel] Ryzom screenshot</A> <A NAME="1654"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01006311839- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000745.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="1655"></A><I>delire</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01006311839-01006324503- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000746.html">[Nel] Bezian Vistas</A> <A NAME="1656"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01006530434- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000747.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="1657"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01006530434-01006553360- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000748.html">[Nel] Missing Files For CVS Version of Snowballs2</A> <A NAME="1658"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01006630444- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000749.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="1659"></A><I>Heath Johns</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01006630444-01006958584- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000759.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="1669"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--1 01006630444-01007076720- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000765.html">[Nel] Snowballs Segfaults</A> <A NAME="1675"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01006709816- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000750.html">[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG</A> <A NAME="1660"></A><I>Christine Hall</I>
+<!--0 01006793981- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000751.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1661"></A><I>Nel List</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01006793981-01006796367- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000752.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1662"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01006793981-01006796367-01006855440- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000754.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #191 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1664"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01006854728- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000753.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="1663"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01006854728-01006958263- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000758.html">[Nel] GCC version and Debian Package</A> <A NAME="1668"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01006881907- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000755.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="1665"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01006881907-01006936743- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000756.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="1666"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 01006881907-01006957592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000757.html">[Nel] Compile error</A> <A NAME="1667"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01007022107- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000760.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="1670"></A><I>zen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007022107-01007024153- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000761.html">[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?</A> <A NAME="1671"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01007024168- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000762.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="1672"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007024168-01007025071- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000763.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="1673"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01007024168-01007025071-01007025918- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000764.html">[Nel] Low framerate</A> <A NAME="1674"></A><I>Thomas RIBO</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01007078938- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000766.html">[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw</A> <A NAME="1676"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<!--0 01007109747- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000767.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="1677"></A><I>Francois Lagunas</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007109747-01007136415- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000771.html">[Nel] Missing files</A> <A NAME="1681"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01007132246- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000768.html">[Nel] So many services!</A> <A NAME="1678"></A><I>Paul Siegel</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01007132246-01007133744- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000769.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="1679"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01007132246-01007133744-01007134288- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000770.html">[Nel] How exactly do I run the Snowball Server?</A> <A NAME="1680"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Nov 30 17:06:55 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Nov 30 18:14:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-October/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-October/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..88132c8b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-October/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,156 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-October Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-October Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Oct  3 11:38:10 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 111<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000661.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="661"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000666.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="666"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000667.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="667"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000669.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="669"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000675.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="675"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000686.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="686"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000688.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="688"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000702.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="702"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000703.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="703"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000689.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="689"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000605.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="605"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000614.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="614"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000615.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="615"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000626.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="626"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000628.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="628"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000633.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="633"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000634.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="634"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000635.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="635"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000642.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="642"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000649.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="649"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000651.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="651"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000653.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="653"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000654.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="654"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000694.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="694"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000648.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="648"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000650.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="650"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000645.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="645"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000655.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="655"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000656.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="656"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000690.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="690"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000652.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="652"></A><I>Mike Follwerk</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000606.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="606"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000602.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="602"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000612.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="612"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000617.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="617"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000658.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="658"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000663.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="663"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000670.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="670"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000674.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="674"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000677.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="677"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000681.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="681"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000692.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="692"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000693.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="693"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000700.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="700"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000603.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="603"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000613.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="613"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000618.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="618"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000620.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="620"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000627.html">[Nel] time_service</A> <A NAME="627"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000637.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="637"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000647.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="647"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000660.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="660"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000664.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="664"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000673.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="673"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000679.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="679"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000680.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="680"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000695.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="695"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000696.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="696"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000697.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="697"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000701.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="701"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000705.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="705"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000640.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="640"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000641.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="641"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000691.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="691"></A><I>Guillaume Morin</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000672.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="672"></A><I>Pierre Portier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000685.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="685"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000687.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="687"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000704.html">[Nel] Error: Linux build (nel/src/3d/zone_lighter.cpp)</A> <A NAME="704"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000710.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="710"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000711.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="711"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000604.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="604"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000608.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="608"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000609.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="609"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000610.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="610"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000611.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="611"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000621.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="621"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000622.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="622"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000623.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="623"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000630.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="630"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000631.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="631"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000638.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="638"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000659.html">[Nel] New error :)</A> <A NAME="659"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000668.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="668"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000683.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="683"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000684.html">[Nel] Errata</A> <A NAME="684"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000619.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="619"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000625.html">[Nel] Another small bugfix</A> <A NAME="625"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000624.html">[Nel] Max plugin series continues...</A> <A NAME="624"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000629.html">[Nel] Happy me</A> <A NAME="629"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000632.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="632"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000636.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="636"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000643.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="643"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000644.html">[Nel] nel_patch_paint</A> <A NAME="644"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000646.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="646"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000657.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="657"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000671.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="671"></A><I>David Artiga Torrijos</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000607.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="607"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000639.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="639"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000662.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="662"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000665.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="665"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000678.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="678"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000682.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="682"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000698.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="698"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000699.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="699"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000706.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="706"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000707.html">[Nel] Snowballs data update</A> <A NAME="707"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000708.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="708"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000709.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="709"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000616.html">[Nel] object viewer config file</A> <A NAME="616"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000712.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="712"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000676.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="676"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 18:17:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-October/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-October/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..943b2fb8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-October/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,156 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-October Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-October Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Oct  3 11:38:10 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 111<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000603.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="603"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000604.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="604"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000605.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="605"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000606.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="606"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000607.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="607"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000608.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="608"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000609.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="609"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000602.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="602"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000610.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="610"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000611.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="611"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000612.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="612"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000613.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="613"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000614.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="614"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000615.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="615"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000616.html">[Nel] object viewer config file</A> <A NAME="616"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000618.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="618"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000619.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="619"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000620.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="620"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000617.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="617"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000621.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="621"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000622.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="622"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000623.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="623"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000625.html">[Nel] Another small bugfix</A> <A NAME="625"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000624.html">[Nel] Max plugin series continues...</A> <A NAME="624"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000626.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="626"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000627.html">[Nel] time_service</A> <A NAME="627"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000628.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="628"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000629.html">[Nel] Happy me</A> <A NAME="629"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000630.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="630"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000631.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="631"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000632.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="632"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000633.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="633"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000634.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="634"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000635.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="635"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000636.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="636"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000637.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="637"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000638.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="638"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000639.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="639"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000640.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="640"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000641.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="641"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000642.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="642"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000643.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="643"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000644.html">[Nel] nel_patch_paint</A> <A NAME="644"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000645.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="645"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000646.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="646"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000647.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="647"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000648.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="648"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000649.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="649"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000650.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="650"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000651.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="651"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000652.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="652"></A><I>Mike Follwerk</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000653.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="653"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000654.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="654"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000655.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="655"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000656.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="656"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000657.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="657"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000658.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="658"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000659.html">[Nel] New error :)</A> <A NAME="659"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000660.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="660"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000661.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="661"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000662.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="662"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000663.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="663"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000664.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="664"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000665.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="665"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000666.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="666"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000667.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="667"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000668.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="668"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000669.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="669"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000670.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="670"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000671.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="671"></A><I>David Artiga Torrijos</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000672.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="672"></A><I>Pierre Portier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000673.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="673"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000674.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="674"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000675.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="675"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000676.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="676"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000677.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="677"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000678.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="678"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000679.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="679"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000680.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="680"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000681.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="681"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000682.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="682"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000685.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="685"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000683.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="683"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000684.html">[Nel] Errata</A> <A NAME="684"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000687.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="687"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000686.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="686"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000688.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="688"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000689.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="689"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000690.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="690"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000691.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="691"></A><I>Guillaume Morin</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000692.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="692"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000693.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="693"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000694.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="694"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000695.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="695"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000696.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="696"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000697.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="697"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000698.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="698"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000699.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="699"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000700.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="700"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000704.html">[Nel] Error: Linux build (nel/src/3d/zone_lighter.cpp)</A> <A NAME="704"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000701.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="701"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000702.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="702"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000703.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="703"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000705.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="705"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000706.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="706"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000707.html">[Nel] Snowballs data update</A> <A NAME="707"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000708.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="708"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000709.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="709"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000710.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="710"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000711.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="711"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000712.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="712"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 18:17:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-October/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-October/subject.html
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@@ -0,0 +1,156 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-October Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-October Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Oct  3 11:38:10 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 111<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000703.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="703"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000705.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="705"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000706.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="706"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000710.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="710"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000631.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="631"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000634.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="634"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000630.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="630"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000633.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="633"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000625.html">[Nel] Another small bugfix</A> <A NAME="625"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000606.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="606"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000607.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="607"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000608.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="608"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000663.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="663"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000665.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="665"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000670.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="670"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000671.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="671"></A><I>David Artiga Torrijos</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000673.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="673"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000674.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="674"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000677.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="677"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000680.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="680"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000681.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="681"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000682.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="682"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000650.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="650"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000651.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="651"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000652.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="652"></A><I>Mike Follwerk</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000653.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="653"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000648.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="648"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000649.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="649"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000702.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="702"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000708.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="708"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000711.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="711"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000664.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="664"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000676.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="676"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000679.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="679"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000701.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="701"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000684.html">[Nel] Errata</A> <A NAME="684"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000692.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="692"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000697.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="697"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000704.html">[Nel] Error: Linux build (nel/src/3d/zone_lighter.cpp)</A> <A NAME="704"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000604.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="604"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000605.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="605"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000609.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="609"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000610.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="610"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000611.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="611"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000614.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="614"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000615.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="615"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000621.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="621"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000622.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="622"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000623.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="623"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000628.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="628"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000629.html">[Nel] Happy me</A> <A NAME="629"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000654.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="654"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000655.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="655"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000656.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="656"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000657.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="657"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000626.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="626"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000639.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="639"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000640.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="640"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000641.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="641"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000669.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="669"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000672.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="672"></A><I>Pierre Portier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000667.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="667"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000668.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="668"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000675.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="675"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000678.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="678"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000685.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="685"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000687.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="687"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000686.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="686"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000699.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="699"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000666.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="666"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000709.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="709"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000661.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="661"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000662.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="662"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000632.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="632"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000635.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="635"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000636.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="636"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000637.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="637"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000638.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="638"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000642.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="642"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000643.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="643"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000624.html">[Nel] Max plugin series continues...</A> <A NAME="624"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000644.html">[Nel] nel_patch_paint</A> <A NAME="644"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000688.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="688"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000694.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="694"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000695.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="695"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000659.html">[Nel] New error :)</A> <A NAME="659"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000603.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="603"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000602.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="602"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000612.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="612"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000613.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="613"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000618.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="618"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000617.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="617"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000616.html">[Nel] object viewer config file</A> <A NAME="616"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000683.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="683"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000712.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="712"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000619.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="619"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000620.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="620"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000645.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="645"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000646.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="646"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000647.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="647"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000693.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="693"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000696.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="696"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000698.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="698"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000700.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="700"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000707.html">[Nel] Snowballs data update</A> <A NAME="707"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000658.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="658"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000660.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="660"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000689.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="689"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000690.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="690"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000691.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="691"></A><I>Guillaume Morin</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000627.html">[Nel] time_service</A> <A NAME="627"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 18:17:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-October/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-October/thread.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-October/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,355 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-October Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-October Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Oct  3 11:38:10 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 111<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01002111916- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000604.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1514"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002111916-01002114398- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000605.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1515"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01002111916-01002114398-01002117363- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000609.html">[Nel] Exporter plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1519"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002115384- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000606.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="1516"></A><I>Laurent Hausermann</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002115384-01002117040- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000607.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="1517"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--1 01002115384-01002117240- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000608.html">[Nel] Any more suitable way to get the code.</A> <A NAME="1518"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002118029- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000602.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="1512"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002118029-01002101890- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000603.html">[Nel] Newbie problem</A> <A NAME="1513"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01002118029-01002101890-01002148813- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000612.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="1522"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01002118029-01002101890-01002148813-01002181747- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000613.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="1523"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 01002118029-01002101890-01002148813-01002181747-01002208309- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000617.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="1527"></A><I>Patrick Herrmann</I>
+<!--3 01002118029-01002101890-01002148813-01002181747-01002208309-01002187698- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000618.html">[Nel] Newbie problem - Once again!</A> <A NAME="1528"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002123475- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000610.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1520"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002123475-01002126442- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000611.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1521"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01002123475-01002126442-01002182527- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000615.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1525"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<!--2 01002123475-01002126442-01002291231- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000628.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1538"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01002123475-01002181987- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000614.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1524"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01002123475-01002181987-01002215634- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000621.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1531"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--2 01002123475-01002181987-01002215686- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000622.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1532"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01002123475-01002181987-01002215686-01002222063- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000623.html">[Nel] Exporter Plugin for 3DSMAX 4.0</A> <A NAME="1533"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002183243- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000616.html">[Nel] object viewer config file</A> <A NAME="1526"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+<!--0 01002205189- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000619.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="1529"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002205189-01002207158- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000620.html">[Nel] Small bugfix</A> <A NAME="1530"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002277491- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000625.html">[Nel] Another small bugfix</A> <A NAME="1535"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<!--0 01002280014- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000624.html">[Nel] Max plugin series continues...</A> <A NAME="1534"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<!--0 01002286441- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000626.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="1536"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002286441-01002884771- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000639.html">[Nel] Libxml</A> <A NAME="1549"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002291110- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000627.html">[Nel] time_service</A> <A NAME="1537"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--0 01002302736- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000629.html">[Nel] Happy me</A> <A NAME="1539"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<!--0 01002359024- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000630.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="1540"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002359024-01002557798- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000633.html">[Nel] Again 3DS 4.0</A> <A NAME="1543"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002360007- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000631.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="1541"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002360007-01002558059- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000634.html">[Nel] 3ds4</A> <A NAME="1544"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01002469094- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000632.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="1542"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01002469094-01002558814- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000635.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="1545"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01002469094-01002558814-01002605186- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000636.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="1546"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01002469094-01002558814-01002605186-01002612784- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000637.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="1547"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 01002469094-01002558814-01002605186-01002612784-01002613234- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000638.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="1548"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01002469094-01002558814-01003241382- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000642.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="1552"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01002469094-01002558814-01003241382-01003250684- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000643.html">[Nel] Max 4 plugin and some questions</A> <A NAME="1553"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003158774- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000640.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="1550"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003158774-01003159430- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000641.html">[Nel] libxml problem</A> <A NAME="1551"></A><I>Jared Mark</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003292360- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000644.html">[Nel] nel_patch_paint</A> <A NAME="1554"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<!--0 01003373885- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000645.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="1555"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003373885-01003377877- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000646.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="1556"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+<!--1 01003373885-01003393616- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000647.html">[Nel] Small problem with NeLNS compile... gtk.h?</A> <A NAME="1557"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003406189- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000648.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="1558"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003406189-01003406550- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000649.html">[Nel] Compilation problem with nel/src/3d/driver.h</A> <A NAME="1559"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003491964- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000650.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="1560"></A><I>Alexandre Courbot</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003491964-01003495028- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000651.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="1561"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<!--1 01003491964-01003498336- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000652.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="1562"></A><I>Mike Follwerk</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01003491964-01003498336-01003503070- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000653.html">[Nel] Compilation issues</A> <A NAME="1563"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003512920- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000654.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="1564"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003512920-01003518438- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000655.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="1565"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--1 01003512920-01003518793- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000656.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="1566"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<!--1 01003512920-01003606275- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000657.html">[Nel] Landscape generation pipeline</A> <A NAME="1567"></A><I>Anatoly Sennov</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003778731- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000658.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="1568"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003778731-01003838519- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000660.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="1570"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 01003778731-01003922699- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000663.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1573"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01003778731-01003922699-01003927144- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000664.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="1574"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--2 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000665.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1575"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000670.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1580"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411-01004010123- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000671.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1581"></A><I>David Artiga Torrijos</I>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411-01004012809- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000673.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1583"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411-01004012809-01004014020- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000674.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1584"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411-01004012809-01004014020-01004094906- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000677.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1587"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411-01004012809-01004014020-01004094906-01004097193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000680.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1590"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411-01004012809-01004014020-01004094906-01004097193-01004098253- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000681.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1591"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<!--3 01003778731-01003922699-01003938702-01004009411-01004012809-01004014020-01004094906-01004097193-01004098556- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000682.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs Client?</A> <A NAME="1592"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01003778731-01004229122- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000689.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="1599"></A><I>Gil Colgate</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01003778731-01004229122-01004238091- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000690.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="1600"></A><I>EagleEye</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01003778731-01004229122-01004238091-01004259822- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000691.html">[Nel] Stability for at least a test product?</A> <A NAME="1601"></A><I>Guillaume Morin</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003779371- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000659.html">[Nel] New error :)</A> <A NAME="1569"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--0 01003849560- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000661.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="1571"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003849560-01003910225- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000662.html">[Nel] Linux: pb with ./configure and libxml2</A> <A NAME="1572"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01003849560-01003910225-01003958026- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000666.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="1576"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01003849560-01003910225-01003958026-01004518650- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000709.html">[Nel] Linux: now little pb with STLport</A> <A NAME="1619"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01003969647- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000667.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="1577"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01003969647-01003988813- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000668.html">[Nel] Linux compiling results</A> <A NAME="1578"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004007102- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000669.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="1579"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004007102-01004011006- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000672.html">[Nel] Linux compiling again</A> <A NAME="1582"></A><I>Pierre Portier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004014108- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000675.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="1585"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004014108-01004095135- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000678.html">[Nel] Linux compiling, ever</A> <A NAME="1588"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--1 01004014108-01004114302- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000685.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="1595"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01004014108-01004114302-01004140087- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000686.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="1596"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01004014108-01004114302-01004140087-01004115943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000687.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="1597"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01004014108-01004114302-01004360846- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000699.html">[Nel] Linux configure error for NelNS</A> <A NAME="1609"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004055992- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000676.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="1586"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004055992-01004095378- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000679.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="1589"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 01004055992-01004378456- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000701.html">[Nel] Deprecated services</A> <A NAME="1611"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004115321- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000683.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="1593"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--0 01004115396- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000684.html">[Nel] Errata</A> <A NAME="1594"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I>
+<!--0 01004147174- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000688.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="1598"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004147174-01004340851- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000694.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="1604"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<!--1 01004147174-01004349130- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000695.html">[Nel] Nerdz are hunting bugs friday nights</A> <A NAME="1605"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004293273- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000692.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="1602"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004293273-01004355951- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000697.html">[Nel] Error Message building Position.exe for SnowBalls Server.</A> <A NAME="1607"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004293589- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000693.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="1603"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004293589-01004349301- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000696.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="1606"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 01004293589-01004359566- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000698.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="1608"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01004293589-01004359566-01004373818- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000700.html">[Nel] SnowBalls 2 Server?</A> <A NAME="1610"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004395910- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000702.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="1612"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004395910-01004450109- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000708.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="1618"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--1 01004395910-01004524165- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000711.html">[Nel] CVS linux build (nel/src/ai stuff)</A> <A NAME="1621"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004397795- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000703.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="1613"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01004397795-01004374108- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000704.html">[Nel] Error: Linux build (nel/src/3d/zone_lighter.cpp)</A> <A NAME="1614"></A><I>Doug Posner</I>
+<!--1 01004397795-01004430858- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000705.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="1615"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 01004397795-01004449641- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000706.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="1616"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--1 01004397795-01004524065- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000710.html">[Nel] (still) Linux build (nel/src/ai)</A> <A NAME="1620"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01004449841- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000707.html">[Nel] Snowballs data update</A> <A NAME="1617"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<!--0 01004544697- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000712.html">[Nel] Please fix the project for nel_export_classes</A> <A NAME="1622"></A><I>Nicolas Vizerie</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Oct 31 17:11:37 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Oct 31 18:17:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-September/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..910cff7c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,49 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-September Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-September Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Sep 13 11:20:38 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 4<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000599.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="599"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000598.html">[Nel] New web utility</A> <A NAME="598"></A><I>Victor Black</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000600.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="600"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000601.html">[Nel] ˲¼äÌá¸ß°Ù±¶·ÃÎÊÁ¿£¡</A> <A NAME="601"></A><I>service@coolstarpage.com</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-September/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..64215d7b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,49 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-September Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-September Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Sep 13 11:20:38 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 4<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000598.html">[Nel] New web utility</A> <A NAME="598"></A><I>Victor Black</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000599.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="599"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000600.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="600"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000601.html">[Nel] ˲¼äÌá¸ß°Ù±¶·ÃÎÊÁ¿£¡</A> <A NAME="601"></A><I>service@coolstarpage.com</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-September/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9c7dd380
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,49 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-September Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-September Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Sep 13 11:20:38 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 4<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000599.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="599"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000600.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="600"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000598.html">[Nel] New web utility</A> <A NAME="598"></A><I>Victor Black</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000601.html">[Nel] ˲¼äÌá¸ß°Ù±¶·ÃÎÊÁ¿£¡</A> <A NAME="601"></A><I>service@coolstarpage.com</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-September/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ce009b44
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-September/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2001-September Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-September Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Sep 13 11:20:38 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 4<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01000372838- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000598.html">[Nel] New web utility</A> <A NAME="1508"></A><I>Victor Black</I>
+<!--0 01000801629- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000599.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="1509"></A><I>=?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01000801629-01001313742- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000600.html">[Nel] Landscape tools?</A> <A NAME="1510"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01001523721- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000601.html">[Nel] ˲¼äÌá¸ß°Ù±¶·ÃÎÊÁ¿£¡</A> <A NAME="1511"></A><I>service@coolstarpage.com</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001006.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001006.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7d55f932
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001006.html
@@ -0,0 +1,225 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...
+   </TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org">
+   <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="001005.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next"  HREF="001008.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...
+   </H1>
+    <B>nel@nevrax.org
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...">nel@nevrax.org
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>14 Feb 2002 06:52:23 -0800</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="001005.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="001008.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#1006">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#1006">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#1006">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#1006">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>------=_s8W0bpD2_0JU5Gmgg_MA
+Content-Type: text/plain
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+
+Hello,
+
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+------=_s8W0bpD2_0JU5Gmgg_MA
+Content-Type: text/html
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
+
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+&lt;head&gt;
+&lt;title&gt;Link Passport&lt;/title&gt;
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+&lt;body bgcolor=&quot;#FFFFFF&quot; text=&quot;#000000&quot;&gt;
+&lt;div align=&quot;center&quot;&gt; 
+  &lt;form name=&quot;&quot; method=&quot;post&quot; action=&quot;<A HREF="http://linkpassport.com/cgi-bin/gofind/gofind.cgi"">http://linkpassport.com/cgi-bin/gofind/gofind.cgi&quot;</A>&gt;
+    &lt;table border=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;450&quot; align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;
+      &lt;tr&gt; 
+        &lt;td width=&quot;351&quot; height=&quot;38&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://www.linkpassport.com"">http://www.linkpassport.com&quot;</A>&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;<A HREF="http://matsweb.com/images/ail-obi_182-3.gif"">http://matsweb.com/images/ail-obi_182-3.gif&quot;</A> width=&quot;400&quot; height=&quot;49&quot; border=&quot;0&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/td&gt;
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+          &lt;font face=&quot;Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif&quot; size=&quot;1&quot;&gt;(&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://linkpassport.com/cgi-bin/gofind/signup.cgi"">http://linkpassport.com/cgi-bin/gofind/signup.cgi&quot;</A>&gt;List 
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+      &lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://www.linkpassport.com/cgi-bin/gofind/signup.cgi"">http://www.linkpassport.com/cgi-bin/gofind/signup.cgi&quot;</A>&gt;Set up a 
+      free&lt;/a&gt; account between now and February 14, 2002 and your entered for 
+      a drawing to win $1500 worth of targeted traffic. Please let us know if 
+      you have any questions.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
+    &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif&quot; size=&quot;3&quot; color=&quot;#666666&quot;&gt;Best 
+      Regards,&lt;/font&gt;&lt;br&gt;
+      &lt;font size=&quot;3&quot; color=&quot;#666666&quot; face=&quot;Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif&quot;&gt;The Team&lt;/font&gt; 
+      &lt;font size=&quot;3&quot; color=&quot;#666666&quot; face=&quot;Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif&quot;&gt;at Link 
+      Passport&lt;/font&gt;&lt;br&gt;
+    &lt;/p&gt;
+    &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif&quot; color=&quot;#666666&quot;&gt; 
+      &lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;/div&gt;
+  &lt;div align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
+  &lt;div align=&quot;center&quot;&gt; 
+    &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot; face=&quot;Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif&quot; color=&quot;#666666&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;<A HREF="http://www.linkpassport.com"">http://www.linkpassport.com&quot;</A>&gt;<A HREF="http://www.linkpassport.com</a">http://www.linkpassport.com&lt;/a</A>&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
+    &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;/div&gt;
+  &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;
+  &lt;p align=&quot;left&quot;&gt;&lt;font face=&quot;Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif&quot; size=&quot;1&quot;&gt;If you feel 
+    this message reached you in error please respond with the words remove and 
+    you will be taken off our e-mail list immediately.&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
+&lt;/div&gt;
+&lt;/body&gt;
+&lt;/html&gt;
+
+
+------=_s8W0bpD2_0JU5Gmgg_MA--
+
+
+
+</PRE>
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
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+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001127.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001127.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d7e34f07
--- /dev/null
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+   <TITLE> [Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+   </TITLE>
+   <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+   <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org">
+   <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow">
+   
+   <LINK REL="Previous"  HREF="001122.html">
+   <LINK REL="Next"  HREF="001128.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+   <H1>[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+   </H1>
+    <B>neuser jean-philippe
+    </B> 
+    <A HREF="mailto:nel%40nevrax.org"
+       TITLE="[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max">nel@nevrax.org
+       </A><BR>
+    <I>Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:55:25 +0100</I>
+    <P><UL>
+        <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="001122.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A></li>
+        <LI> Next message: <A HREF="001128.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max ( mail without HTML )
+</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#1127">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#1127">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#1127">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#1127">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+    <HR>  
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello all  ,=20
+ok i have understood that the only way to make my landscape is to use =
+3DS max.
+
+ok i have compile ligo project and 3ds max plugins , i have some Dll, =
+Dlu plugin install in 3DS max directory but now i do ?  :)=20
+i see that i can execute some script but i dont understand what to do =
+with.=20
+
+Is somebody can tell me the how to begin ? i just want to make a very =
+little landscape  ( a plane is sufficient ! )=20
+
+
+thansk all=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hello all&amp;nbsp; , &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;ok i have understood that the only way =
+to make my=20
+landscape is to use 3DS max.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;ok i have compile ligo project and 3ds =
+max plugins=20
+, i have some Dll, Dlu plugin install in 3DS max directory but now i do =
+?&amp;nbsp;=20
+:<i>) &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+</I>&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;i see that i can execute some script =
+but i dont=20
+understand what to do with. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Is somebody can tell me the how to =
+begin ? i just=20
+want to make a very little landscape&amp;nbsp; ( a plane is sufficient ! )=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;thansk all &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10--
+
+
+</PRE>
+<!--endarticle-->
+    <HR>
+    <P><UL>
+        <!--threads-->
+	<LI> Previous message: <A HREF="001122.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A></li>
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+</A></li>
+         <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> 
+              <a href="date.html#1127">[ date ]</a>
+              <a href="thread.html#1127">[ thread ]</a>
+              <a href="subject.html#1127">[ subject ]</a>
+              <a href="author.html#1127">[ author ]</a>
+         </LI>
+       </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..206ea96f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,751 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-February Archive by Author</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-February Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Feb  1 00:15:50 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 176<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000967.html">[Nel] New on board
+</A><A NAME="967">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier =?iso-8859-1?Q?GAST=C9?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001071.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1071">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Amadio
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001122.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1122">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yan Babilliot
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000987.html">[Nel] Maya4
+</A><A NAME="987">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001002.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1002">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000981.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="981">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001012.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1012">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001015.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1015">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000966.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="966">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001011.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1011">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001020.html">[Nel] Different Animation results
+</A><A NAME="1020">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001021.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1021">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001023.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1023">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001087.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1087">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001101.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1101">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1110">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001112.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1112">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001124.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1124">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001131.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1131">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001132.html">Re[6]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1132">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000971.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="971">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000975.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="975">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000976.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="976">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000985.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="985">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000986.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="986">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000988.html">[Nel] Also my 2 cents
+</A><A NAME="988">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000990.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="990">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001004.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1004">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001005.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1005">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001007.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... (nVidia stuff)
+</A><A NAME="1007">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001029.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1029">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001031.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1031">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001032.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1032">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001069.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1069">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001022.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1022">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001090.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1090">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000972.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="972">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000984.html">[Nel] Minor fixes (current CVS tree)
+</A><A NAME="984">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000983.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="983">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000993.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="993">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000989.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="989">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000991.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="991">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000992.html">[Nel] Doxygen
+</A><A NAME="992">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000995.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="995">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000999.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="999">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001003.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1003">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001014.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1014">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001024.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1024">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001025.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1025">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001026.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1026">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001027.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1027">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001028.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1028">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001030.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1030">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001033.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1033">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001043.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1043">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001044.html">[Nel] Hit me
+</A><A NAME="1044">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001051.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1051">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001053.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1053">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001056.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1056">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001057.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1057">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001058.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1058">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001061.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1061">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001062.html">[Nel] itsdead.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1062">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001065.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1065">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001067.html">[Nel] More and less asserts
+</A><A NAME="1067">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001068.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1068">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001070.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1070">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001072.html">[Nel] Nel binaries
+</A><A NAME="1072">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001081.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1081">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001085.html">[Nel] Example server set
+</A><A NAME="1085">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001088.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1088">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001105.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1105">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001091.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1091">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001092.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1092">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001095.html">[Nel] Nel Binaries
+</A><A NAME="1095">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001098.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1098">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001111.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1111">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001125.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1125">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001055.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1055">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001063.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1063">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001064.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1064">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001066.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1066">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001107.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1107">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001047.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1047">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001046.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1046">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000996.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="996">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001037.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1037">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000978.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="978">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000997.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="997">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001013.html">[Nel] itsalive and TransportClass
+</A><A NAME="1013">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001017.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1017">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001018.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1018">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001034.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1034">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001042.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1042">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001045.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1045">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001060.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1060">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001082.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1082">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001083.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1083">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001084.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1084">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001089.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1089">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001093.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1093">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001103.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1103">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001104.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1104">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001114.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1114">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001120.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1120">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001130.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1130">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001123.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1123">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jay Lubao
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001010.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1010">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Nel] Snowball now starts... but fonts are unreadable
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001099.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1099">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001100.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1100">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001116.html">NeL and old graphic cards (was Re: [Nel] Particule assert)
+</A><A NAME="1116">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001054.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1054">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert J. Macomber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001102.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1102">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001119.html">[Nel] Re: Compilation problems
+</A><A NAME="1119">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001009.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1009">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001016.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1016">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001048.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1048">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001050.html">[Nel] I hope this works!...
+</A><A NAME="1050">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001052.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1052">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001097.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1097">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001109.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1109">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001039.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1039">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001094.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1094">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001115.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1115">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000964.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="964">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001134.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1134">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>sameh chafik Pro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000994.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="994">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001000.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1000">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001036.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="1036">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000977.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="977">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000979.html">[Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="979">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000959.html">[Nel] libxml2
+</A><A NAME="959">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000960.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="960">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000961.html">[Nel] Error in WorldEditor Project
+</A><A NAME="961">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000962.html">[Nel] mainfrmView.cpp missing
+</A><A NAME="962">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001008.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1008">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001019.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1019">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001049.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1049">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001038.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1038">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Schmidt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001035.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1035">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brian Shores
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000963.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="963">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000965.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="965">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000973.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="973">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000974.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="974">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000998.html">[Nel] Subscription
+</A><A NAME="998">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001108.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1108">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1118">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001073.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1073">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001074.html">[Nel] re: invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1074">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001096.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1096">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001126.html">[Nel] ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1126">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001129.html">[Nel] Re: ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1129">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001113.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1113">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>fmdz@libertysurf.fr
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000968.html">[Nel] information sur nevrax
+</A><A NAME="968">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000969.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="969">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000970.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="970">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000982.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="982">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001001.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1001">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001041.html">[Nel] snowball with mesa 4.0.1 in 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="1041">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001059.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1059">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Nel] Visual studio project error
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001106.html">[Nel] level design compile error
+</A><A NAME="1106">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001117.html">[Nel] How to build my own landscape ?
+</A><A NAME="1117">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001127.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1127">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001128.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max ( mail without HTML )
+</A><A NAME="1128">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001136.html">[Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+</A><A NAME="1136">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001121.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1121">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas maurel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000980.html">Rif: [Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="980">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001006.html">[Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...
+</A><A NAME="1006">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001040.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1040">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001133.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1133">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Mar  1 11:44:00 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/date.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,751 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-February Archive by Date</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-February Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Feb  1 00:15:50 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 176<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000959.html">[Nel] libxml2
+</A><A NAME="959">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000960.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="960">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000961.html">[Nel] Error in WorldEditor Project
+</A><A NAME="961">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000962.html">[Nel] mainfrmView.cpp missing
+</A><A NAME="962">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000963.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="963">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000964.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="964">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000965.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="965">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000967.html">[Nel] New on board
+</A><A NAME="967">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier =?iso-8859-1?Q?GAST=C9?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000968.html">[Nel] information sur nevrax
+</A><A NAME="968">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000969.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="969">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000966.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="966">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000970.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="970">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000971.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="971">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000972.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="972">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000973.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="973">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000974.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="974">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000975.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="975">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000976.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="976">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000977.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="977">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000978.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="978">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000979.html">[Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="979">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000981.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="981">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000980.html">Rif: [Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="980">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000982.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="982">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000984.html">[Nel] Minor fixes (current CVS tree)
+</A><A NAME="984">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000983.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="983">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000985.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="985">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000986.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="986">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000987.html">[Nel] Maya4
+</A><A NAME="987">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000988.html">[Nel] Also my 2 cents
+</A><A NAME="988">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000993.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="993">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000989.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="989">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000990.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="990">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000991.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="991">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000992.html">[Nel] Doxygen
+</A><A NAME="992">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000994.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="994">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000998.html">[Nel] Subscription
+</A><A NAME="998">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000995.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="995">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000996.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="996">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000997.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="997">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000999.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="999">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001000.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1000">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001001.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1001">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001002.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1002">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001003.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1003">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001004.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1004">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001005.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1005">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001006.html">[Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...
+</A><A NAME="1006">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001007.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... (nVidia stuff)
+</A><A NAME="1007">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001008.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1008">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001009.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1009">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001010.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1010">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001012.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1012">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001011.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1011">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001013.html">[Nel] itsalive and TransportClass
+</A><A NAME="1013">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001014.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1014">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001015.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1015">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001016.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1016">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001017.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1017">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001018.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1018">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001019.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1019">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001022.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1022">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001024.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1024">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001025.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1025">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001036.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="1036">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001026.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1026">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001020.html">[Nel] Different Animation results
+</A><A NAME="1020">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001027.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1027">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001028.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1028">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001029.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1029">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001021.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1021">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001023.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1023">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001030.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1030">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001031.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1031">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001032.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1032">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001033.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1033">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001034.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1034">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001035.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1035">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brian Shores
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001037.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1037">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001038.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1038">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Schmidt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001039.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1039">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001040.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1040">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001041.html">[Nel] snowball with mesa 4.0.1 in 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="1041">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001042.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1042">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001043.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1043">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001044.html">[Nel] Hit me
+</A><A NAME="1044">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001045.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1045">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001048.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1048">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001049.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1049">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001050.html">[Nel] I hope this works!...
+</A><A NAME="1050">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001051.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1051">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001052.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1052">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001047.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1047">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001046.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1046">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001053.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1053">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001054.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1054">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert J. Macomber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001055.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1055">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001056.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1056">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001057.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1057">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001058.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1058">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001059.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1059">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001060.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1060">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Nel] Visual studio project error
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Nel] Snowball now starts... but fonts are unreadable
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001061.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1061">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001062.html">[Nel] itsdead.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1062">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001063.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1063">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001064.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1064">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001065.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1065">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001066.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1066">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001067.html">[Nel] More and less asserts
+</A><A NAME="1067">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001068.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1068">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001069.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1069">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001070.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1070">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001071.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1071">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Amadio
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001072.html">[Nel] Nel binaries
+</A><A NAME="1072">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001073.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1073">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001074.html">[Nel] re: invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1074">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001081.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1081">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001082.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1082">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001083.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1083">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001084.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1084">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001085.html">[Nel] Example server set
+</A><A NAME="1085">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001088.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1088">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001089.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1089">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001090.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1090">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001105.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1105">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001091.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1091">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001092.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1092">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001093.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1093">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001094.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1094">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001095.html">[Nel] Nel Binaries
+</A><A NAME="1095">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001096.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1096">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001097.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1097">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001098.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1098">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001099.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1099">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001100.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1100">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001087.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1087">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001106.html">[Nel] level design compile error
+</A><A NAME="1106">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001102.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1102">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001103.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1103">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001104.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1104">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001107.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1107">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001108.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1108">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001109.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1109">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001101.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1101">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001111.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1111">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001113.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1113">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>fmdz@libertysurf.fr
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001114.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1114">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001115.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1115">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001117.html">[Nel] How to build my own landscape ?
+</A><A NAME="1117">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1110">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001112.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1112">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001116.html">NeL and old graphic cards (was Re: [Nel] Particule assert)
+</A><A NAME="1116">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1118">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001119.html">[Nel] Re: Compilation problems
+</A><A NAME="1119">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001120.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1120">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001121.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1121">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas maurel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001122.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1122">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yan Babilliot
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001127.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1127">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001128.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max ( mail without HTML )
+</A><A NAME="1128">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001126.html">[Nel] ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1126">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001129.html">[Nel] Re: ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1129">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001123.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1123">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jay Lubao
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001125.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1125">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001130.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1130">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001124.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1124">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001133.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1133">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001134.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1134">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>sameh chafik Pro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001131.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1131">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001132.html">Re[6]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1132">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001136.html">[Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+</A><A NAME="1136">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Mar  1 11:44:00 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/subject.html
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@@ -0,0 +1,751 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-February Archive by Subject</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-February Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Feb  1 00:15:50 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 176<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001126.html">[Nel] ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1126">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000970.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="970">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000971.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="971">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000982.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="982">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000986.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="986">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001001.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1001">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001004.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1004">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001010.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1010">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001035.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1035">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brian Shores
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001037.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1037">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000977.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="977">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000978.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="978">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001006.html">[Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...
+</A><A NAME="1006">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001133.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1133">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001134.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1134">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>sameh chafik Pro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000988.html">[Nel] Also my 2 cents
+</A><A NAME="988">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001068.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1068">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001069.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1069">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001070.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1070">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001071.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1071">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Amadio
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001084.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1084">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001092.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1092">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001093.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1093">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000963.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="963">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000974.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="974">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001102.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1102">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001104.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1104">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001056.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1056">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001097.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1097">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001098.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1098">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001017.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1017">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001018.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1018">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001019.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1019">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001026.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1026">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001052.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1052">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000976.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="976">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000994.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="994">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000996.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="996">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001036.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="1036">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001020.html">[Nel] Different Animation results
+</A><A NAME="1020">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001022.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1022">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001021.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1021">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000960.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="960">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000973.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="973">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000992.html">[Nel] Doxygen
+</A><A NAME="992">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001108.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1108">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001109.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1109">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001101.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1101">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000961.html">[Nel] Error in WorldEditor Project
+</A><A NAME="961">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001085.html">[Nel] Example server set
+</A><A NAME="1085">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001107.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1107">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001111.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1111">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001115.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1115">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001053.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1053">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001054.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1054">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert J. Macomber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001057.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1057">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001007.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... (nVidia stuff)
+</A><A NAME="1007">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000995.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="995">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000997.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="997">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000999.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="999">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001000.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1000">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001003.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1003">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000983.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="983">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000985.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="985">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000989.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="989">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000990.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="990">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001043.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1043">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001045.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1045">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001051.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1051">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001014.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1014">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001015.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1015">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001024.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1024">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001028.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1028">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001031.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1031">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001033.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1033">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001034.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1034">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001038.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1038">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Schmidt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001039.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1039">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001027.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1027">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001029.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1029">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001030.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1030">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001032.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1032">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001044.html">[Nel] Hit me
+</A><A NAME="1044">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001127.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1127">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001131.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1131">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001128.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max ( mail without HTML )
+</A><A NAME="1128">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001117.html">[Nel] How to build my own landscape ?
+</A><A NAME="1117">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001050.html">[Nel] I hope this works!...
+</A><A NAME="1050">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000968.html">[Nel] information sur nevrax
+</A><A NAME="968">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001073.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1073">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001081.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1081">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001082.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1082">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001105.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1105">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001096.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1096">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001136.html">[Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+</A><A NAME="1136">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001013.html">[Nel] itsalive and TransportClass
+</A><A NAME="1013">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001062.html">[Nel] itsdead.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1062">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001106.html">[Nel] level design compile error
+</A><A NAME="1106">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000959.html">[Nel] libxml2
+</A><A NAME="959">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000964.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="964">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000969.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="969">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000966.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="966">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001113.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1113">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>fmdz@libertysurf.fr
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001114.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1114">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000962.html">[Nel] mainfrmView.cpp missing
+</A><A NAME="962">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001002.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1002">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001005.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1005">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000987.html">[Nel] Maya4
+</A><A NAME="987">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000984.html">[Nel] Minor fixes (current CVS tree)
+</A><A NAME="984">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001067.html">[Nel] More and less asserts
+</A><A NAME="1067">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000991.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="991">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001016.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1016">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001025.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1025">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001090.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1090">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001072.html">[Nel] Nel binaries
+</A><A NAME="1072">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001095.html">[Nel] Nel Binaries
+</A><A NAME="1095">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001088.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1088">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001089.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1089">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001091.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1091">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001094.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1094">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001099.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1099">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001040.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1040">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001042.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1042">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000967.html">[Nel] New on board
+</A><A NAME="967">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier =?iso-8859-1?Q?GAST=C9?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001121.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1121">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas maurel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001122.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1122">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yan Babilliot
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001061.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1061">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001064.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1064">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001065.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1065">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001066.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1066">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001083.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1083">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001100.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1100">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001103.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1103">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000972.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="972">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000975.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="975">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000981.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="981">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000993.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="993">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001012.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1012">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001011.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1011">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001129.html">[Nel] Re: ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1129">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000979.html">[Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="979">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001119.html">[Nel] Re: Compilation problems
+</A><A NAME="1119">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001074.html">[Nel] re: invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1074">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001047.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1047">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001046.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1046">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001060.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1060">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001063.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1063">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000965.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="965">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001055.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1055">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001058.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1058">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Nel] Snowball now starts... but fonts are unreadable
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001041.html">[Nel] snowball with mesa 4.0.1 in 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="1041">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001008.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1008">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001009.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1009">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001048.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1048">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001049.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1049">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000998.html">[Nel] Subscription
+</A><A NAME="998">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001059.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1059">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001123.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1123">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jay Lubao
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001130.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1130">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Nel] Visual studio project error
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001120.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1120">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001116.html">NeL and old graphic cards (was Re: [Nel] Particule assert)
+</A><A NAME="1116">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001023.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1023">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1110">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1118">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001087.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1087">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001112.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1112">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001125.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1125">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001124.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1124">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001132.html">Re[6]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1132">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000980.html">Rif: [Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="980">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Mar  1 11:44:00 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/thread.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,1063 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-February Archive by Thread</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-February Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Feb  1 00:15:50 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 176<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01012518950- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000959.html">[Nel] libxml2
+</A><A NAME="959">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<!--0 01012519775- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000960.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="960">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01012519775-01013097184- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000973.html">[Nel] Doc additions..
+</A><A NAME="973">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01012521653- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000961.html">[Nel] Error in WorldEditor Project
+</A><A NAME="961">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<!--0 01012521955- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000962.html">[Nel] mainfrmView.cpp missing
+</A><A NAME="962">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<!--0 01012572169- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000963.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="963">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Artiga Torrijos
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01012572169-01013097933- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000974.html">[Nel] Building Snowballs2 on Linux
+</A><A NAME="974">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01012839145- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000964.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="964">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01012839145-01012870895- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000966.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="966">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01012840126- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000965.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="965">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<!--0 01012845590- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000967.html">[Nel] New on board
+</A><A NAME="967">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier =?iso-8859-1?Q?GAST=C9?=
+</I>
+<!--0 01012863082- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000968.html">[Nel] information sur nevrax
+</A><A NAME="968">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01012863278- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000969.html">[Nel] Linking issues on Snowballs2 compilation
+</A><A NAME="969">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01012942362- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000970.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="970">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01012942362-01012944830- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000971.html">[Nel] 3D driver
+</A><A NAME="971">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013041482- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000972.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="972">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013041482-01013098485- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000975.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="975">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<!--1 01013041482-01013437490- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000981.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="981">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01013041482-01013437490-01013461107- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000993.html">[Nel] patch to compile on GNU/Linux
+</A><A NAME="993">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013098701- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000976.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="976">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013098701-01013520551- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000994.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="994">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013112325- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000977.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="977">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013112325-01013416273- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000978.html">[Nel] A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="978">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013433142- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000979.html">[Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="979">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>LaZaRuS Returns
+</I>
+<!--0 01013440347- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000980.html">Rif: [Nel] Re: A couple of quick tidbits
+</A><A NAME="980">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<!--0 01013442787- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000982.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="982">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013442787-01013447998- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000986.html">[Nel] 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="986">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013444727- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000984.html">[Nel] Minor fixes (current CVS tree)
+</A><A NAME="984">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01013446179- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000983.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="983">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013446179-01013447615- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000985.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="985">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01013446179-01013447615-01013462400- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000989.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="989">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01013446179-01013447615-01013462400-01013463717- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000990.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... trying to load landscape
+</A><A NAME="990">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013448949- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000987.html">[Nel] Maya4
+</A><A NAME="987">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<!--0 01013449391- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000988.html">[Nel] Also my 2 cents
+</A><A NAME="988">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<!--0 01013504277- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000991.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="991">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013504277-01014023529- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001016.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1016">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01013504277-01014023529-01014053288- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001025.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1025">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01013504277-01014023529-01014053288-01014652172- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001090.html">[Nel] NeL 3D Library : Features
+</A><A NAME="1090">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013506747- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000992.html">[Nel] Doxygen
+</A><A NAME="992">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01013523614- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000998.html">[Nel] Subscription
+</A><A NAME="998">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<!--0 01013551659- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000995.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="995">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013551659-01013590456- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000997.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="997">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01013551659-01013590456-01013608368- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000999.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="999">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01013551659-01013590456-01013608368-01013619489- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001000.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1000">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<!--3 01013551659-01013590456-01013608368-01013619489-01013680313- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001003.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... snowballs is running
+</A><A NAME="1003">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01013551659-01013590456-01013608368-01013699636- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001007.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux ... (nVidia stuff)
+</A><A NAME="1007">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013556159- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000996.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="996">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013556159-01014055569- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001036.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="1036">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013624962- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001001.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1001">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013624962-01013691520- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001004.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1004">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<!--1 01013624962-01013712962- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001010.html">[Nel] 3D software mode again
+</A><A NAME="1010">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013648245- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001002.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1002">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brandon Barker
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013648245-01013691683- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001005.html">[Nel] Maya Plugin Documentation
+</A><A NAME="1005">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013694743- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001006.html">[Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing...
+</A><A NAME="1006">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<!--0 01013701378- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001008.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1008">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013701378-01013707646- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001009.html">[Nel] Spam
+</A><A NAME="1009">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013777128- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001011.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1011">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013777128-01013764593- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001012.html">[Nel] Problem welding / TileLightInfluences
+</A><A NAME="1012">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<!--1 01013777128-01013783367- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001013.html">[Nel] itsalive and TransportClass
+</A><A NAME="1013">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01013953097- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001014.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1014">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01013953097-01014022457- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001015.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1015">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01013953097-01014022457-01014051465- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001024.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux fixes
+</A><A NAME="1024">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01013953097-01014027785- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001017.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1017">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01013953097-01014027785-01014028237- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001018.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1018">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01013953097-01014027785-01014028237-01014029275- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001019.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1019">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+<!--3 01013953097-01014027785-01014028237-01014058434- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001026.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1026">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01013953097-01014027785-01014028237-01014058434-01014229860- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001052.html">[Nel] contrib et fix
+</A><A NAME="1052">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<!--3 01013953097-01014027785-01014028237-01014058434-01014229860-01014293438- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001056.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1056">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01013953097-01014027785-01014028237-01014058434-01014229860-01014293438-01014657341- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001097.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1097">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<!--3 01013953097-01014027785-01014028237-01014058434-01014229860-01014293438-01014657341-01014663591- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001098.html">[Nel] contrib and fix
+</A><A NAME="1098">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014064430- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001020.html">[Nel] Different Animation results
+</A><A NAME="1020">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014064430-01014068118- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001021.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1021">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014064430-01014068118-01014043802- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001022.html">[Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1022">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014064430-01014068118-01014043802-01014074946- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001023.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Different Animation results (more info)
+</A><A NAME="1023">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014065754- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001027.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1027">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014065754-01014067945- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001029.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1029">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014065754-01014067945-01014110791- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001030.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1030">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014065754-01014067945-01014110791-01014127714- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001032.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux viewport fix
+</A><A NAME="1032">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014067289- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001028.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1028">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014067289-01014127282- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001031.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1031">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014067289-01014127282-01014128065- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001033.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1033">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014067289-01014127282-01014128065-01014130021- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001034.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1034">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01014067289-01014127282-01014137138- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001038.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1038">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Schmidt
+</I>
+<!--2 01014067289-01014127282-01014144117- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001039.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux status
+</A><A NAME="1039">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014133256- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001035.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1035">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Brian Shores
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014133256-01014135942- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001037.html">[Nel] 3D Technologies UNITE! Please read...
+</A><A NAME="1037">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014145505- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001040.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1040">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014145505-01014192126- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001042.html">[Nel] Nevrax software
+</A><A NAME="1042">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014154893- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001041.html">[Nel] snowball with mesa 4.0.1 in 3D software mode
+</A><A NAME="1041">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01014214361- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001043.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1043">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014214361-01014215906- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001045.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1045">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014214361-01014215906-01014229644- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001051.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux : landscape is back
+</A><A NAME="1051">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014215345- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001044.html">[Nel] Hit me
+</A><A NAME="1044">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01014218696- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001048.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1048">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014218696-01014219064- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001049.html">[Nel] SPAM :o(
+</A><A NAME="1049">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Valerio Santinelli
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014222300- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001050.html">[Nel] I hope this works!...
+</A><A NAME="1050">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<!--0 01014231282- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001047.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1047">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<!--0 01014231282- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001046.html">[Nel] slash web design and development costs
+</A><A NAME="1046">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Manish  Gajria
+</I>
+<!--0 01014277483- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001053.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1053">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014277483-01014279849- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001054.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1054">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert J. Macomber
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014277483-01014279849-01014280845- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001055.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1055">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014277483-01014279849-01014280845-01014306767- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001058.html">[Nel] Snowball nearly running....
+</A><A NAME="1058">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01014277483-01014279849-01014280845-01014306767-01014309209- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001060.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1060">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01014277483-01014279849-01014280845-01014306767-01014309209-01014361170- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001063.html">[Nel] Snowball download
+</A><A NAME="1063">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01014277483-01014279849-01014293925- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001057.html">[Nel] Free Software drivers & fps
+</A><A NAME="1057">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014308079- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001059.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1059">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01014314957- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001076.html">[Nel] The solution to run Snowball without 3D card under Windows
+</A><A NAME="1076">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01014319468- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001077.html">[Nel] Visual studio project error
+</A><A NAME="1077">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01014321712- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001078.html">[Nel] Snowball now starts... but fonts are unreadable
+</A><A NAME="1078">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<!--0 01014326349- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001061.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1061">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014326349-01014361532- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001064.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1064">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014326349-01014361532-01014368562- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001065.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1065">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014326349-01014361532-01014368562-01014371870- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001066.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1066">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<!--3 01014326349-01014361532-01014368562-01014371870-01014576480- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001075.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1075">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<!--3 01014326349-01014361532-01014368562-01014371870-01014576480-01014638361- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001083.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1083">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01014326349-01014361532-01014368562-01014371870-01014576480-01014638361-01014672028- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001100.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1100">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<!--3 01014326349-01014361532-01014368562-01014371870-01014576480-01014638361-01014672028-01014710279- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001103.html">[Nel] Particule assert
+</A><A NAME="1103">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01014326349-01014361532-01014368562-01014371870-01014576480-01014638361-01014672028-01014710279-01014758558- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001116.html">NeL and old graphic cards (was Re: [Nel] Particule assert)
+</A><A NAME="1116">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014333530- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001062.html">[Nel] itsdead.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1062">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01014373880- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001067.html">[Nel] More and less asserts
+</A><A NAME="1067">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01014374037- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001068.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1068">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014374037-01014386682- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001069.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1069">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<!--1 01014374037-01014627011- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001079.html">[Nel] Asserts (more information)
+</A><A NAME="1079">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014393967- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001070.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1070">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014393967-01014394715- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001071.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1071">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Amadio
+</I>
+<!--1 01014393967-01014627563- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001080.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1080">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014393967-01014627563-01014640826- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001084.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1084">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014393967-01014627563-01014640826-01014654283- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001092.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1092">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01014393967-01014627563-01014640826-01014654283-01014654808- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001093.html">[Nel] Binary releases
+</A><A NAME="1093">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014402217- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001072.html">[Nel] Nel binaries
+</A><A NAME="1072">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01014493002- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001073.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1073">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014493002-01014627549- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001081.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1081">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014493002-01014627549-01014674808- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001087.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1087">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014493002-01014627549-01014674808-01014653069- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001105.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1105">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01014493002-01014627549-01014674808-01014653069-01014754922- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001112.html">Re[2]: [Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1112">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01014493002-01014637917- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001082.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1082">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014575712- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001074.html">[Nel] re: invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1074">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<!--0 01014641201- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001085.html">[Nel] Example server set
+</A><A NAME="1085">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01014646546- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001088.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1088">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014646546-01014647249- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001089.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1089">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014646546-01014647249-01014653525- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001091.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1091">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014646546-01014647249-01014653525-01014654992- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001094.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1094">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<!--3 01014646546-01014647249-01014653525-01014671691- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001099.html">[Nel] Nel landscape display problem
+</A><A NAME="1099">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014655704- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001095.html">[Nel] Nel Binaries
+</A><A NAME="1095">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01014656131- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001096.html">[Nel] invisible users
+</A><A NAME="1096">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<!--0 01014674809- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001106.html">[Nel] level design compile error
+</A><A NAME="1106">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01014700913- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001102.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1102">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014700913-01014710808- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001104.html">[Nel] compilation problems...
+</A><A NAME="1104">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014715403- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001107.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1107">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Alain Dutech
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014715403-01014722730- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001111.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1111">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014721129- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001101.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1101">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014721129-01014715947- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001108.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1108">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01014721129-01014715947-01014719430- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001109.html">[Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1109">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<!--2 01014721129-01014715947-01014750345- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001110.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1110">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01014721129-01014715947-01014750345-01014806185- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001118.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1118">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<!--3 01014721129-01014715947-01014750345-01014806185-01014894942- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001124.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1124">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<!--3 01014721129-01014715947-01014750345-01014806185-01014894942-01014881857- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001125.html">Re[4]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1125">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01014721129-01014715947-01014750345-01014806185-01014894942-01014881857-01014927397- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001132.html">Re[6]: [Nel] Enabling Water Pools in Client
+</A><A NAME="1132">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014729909- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001113.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1113">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>fmdz@libertysurf.fr
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014729909-01014731340- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001114.html">[Nel] Looking for a job in France => GNU/Linux and/or 3D real-time
+</A><A NAME="1114">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014741429- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001115.html">[Nel] Exec pb with '-with-debug'
+</A><A NAME="1115">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Guillaume Morin
+</I>
+<!--0 01014749092- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001117.html">[Nel] How to build my own landscape ?
+</A><A NAME="1117">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01014810423- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001119.html">[Nel] Re: Compilation problems
+</A><A NAME="1119">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<!--0 01014816880- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001120.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org
+</A><A NAME="1120">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--0 01014820756- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001121.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1121">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nicolas maurel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014820756-01014826139- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001122.html">[Nel] NeWT
+</A><A NAME="1122">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yan Babilliot
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014850525- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001127.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1127">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01014850593- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001128.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max ( mail without HTML )
+</A><A NAME="1128">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014850593-01014927086- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001131.html">[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max
+</A><A NAME="1131">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014850753- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001126.html">[Nel] ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1126">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014850753-01014853418- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001129.html">[Nel] Re: ./configure strangeness
+</A><A NAME="1129">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014859106- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001123.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1123">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jay Lubao
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014859106-01014887183- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001130.html">[Nel] VC++ Compiling Problem - "nlsound_lowlevel_rd.lib"
+</A><A NAME="1130">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014907909- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001133.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1133">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014907909-01014911565- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001134.html">[Nel] Agent control
+</A><A NAME="1134">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>sameh chafik Pro
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014936727- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001136.html">[Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+</A><A NAME="1136">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Mar  1 11:44:00 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/author.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/author.html
@@ -0,0 +1,532 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-January Archive by Author</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-January Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  2 17:58:42 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 121<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000950.html">[Nel] Plain text messages, please?
+</A><A NAME="950">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List (Jon)
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000857.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="857">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon (noos)
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000915.html">[Nel] (no subject)-> c bô les études
+</A><A NAME="915">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daylon --
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000888.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="888">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000908.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="908">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000861.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="861">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000887.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="887">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000885.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="885">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000892.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="892">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000901.html">Re[6]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="901">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000850.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="850">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000853.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="853">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000858.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="858">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000865.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="865">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000873.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="873">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000955.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="955">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier Cado
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000897.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="897">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000906.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="906">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000872.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="872">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000874.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="874">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000876.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="876">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000896.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="896">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000910.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="910">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000937.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="937">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000938.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="938">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000943.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="943">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000842.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="842">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000846.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="846">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000847.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="847">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000867.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="867">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000928.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="928">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000907.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="907">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000948.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="948">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000951.html">[Nel] Game Object Models (was:  Plain text messages, please?)
+</A><A NAME="951">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000957.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="957">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000848.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="848">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000855.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="855">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000927.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="927">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000914.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="914">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Veritable Killer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000843.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="843">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000851.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="851">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000868.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="868">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000869.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="869">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000870.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="870">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000900.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="900">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000904.html">[Nel] itsalive
+</A><A NAME="904">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000912.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="912">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000916.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_les_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="916">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000919.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="919">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000939.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="939">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000940.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="940">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000871.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="871">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000890.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="890">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000891.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="891">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000893.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="893">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000844.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="844">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000921.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="921">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000922.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="922">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000923.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="923">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000924.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="924">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000925.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="925">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000926.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="926">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000930.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="930">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000932.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="932">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000947.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="947">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000956.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="956">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000859.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="859">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000860.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="860">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000862.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="862">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000863.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="863">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000880.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="880">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000882.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="882">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000883.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="883">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000894.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="894">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000895.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="895">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000902.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="902">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000903.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="903">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000905.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="905">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000917.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BNel=5D_Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_le?=
+ =?iso-8859-1?Q?s_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="917">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000952.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="952">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000881.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="881">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000840.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="840">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000841.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="841">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000886.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="886">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000849.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="849">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000864.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="864">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000866.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="866">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000875.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="875">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000877.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="877">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000884.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="884">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000889.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="889">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000839.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="839">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000856.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="856">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000838.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="838">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000879.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="879">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000898.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="898">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000909.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="909">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000913.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="913">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000920.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="920">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000941.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="941">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000942.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="942">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000944.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="944">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000945.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="945">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000946.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="946">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000949.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="949">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000934.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="934">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000854.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="854">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000852.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="852">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000845.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="845">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Zane
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000953.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="953">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>delire
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000911.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="911">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000929.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="929">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000931.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="931">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000933.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="933">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000935.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="935">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000936.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="936">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000954.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="954">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000899.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="899">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000958.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="958">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000918.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="918">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>n_ki
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000878.html">[Nel] How to use 'Pacs' with static geometries like BSP?
+</A><A NAME="878">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>±èÇö¿ì
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/date.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,532 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-January Archive by Date</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-January Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  2 17:58:42 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 121<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000838.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="838">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000839.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="839">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000840.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="840">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000841.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="841">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000842.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="842">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000843.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="843">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000844.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="844">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000845.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="845">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Zane
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000846.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="846">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000847.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="847">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000848.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="848">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000849.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="849">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000850.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="850">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000851.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="851">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000852.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="852">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000853.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="853">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000854.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="854">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000855.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="855">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000856.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="856">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000857.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="857">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon (noos)
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000858.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="858">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000859.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="859">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000860.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="860">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000862.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="862">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000863.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="863">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000861.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="861">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000864.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="864">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000865.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="865">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000866.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="866">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000867.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="867">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000868.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="868">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000869.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="869">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000870.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="870">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000871.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="871">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000872.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="872">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000881.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="881">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000874.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="874">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000873.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="873">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000875.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="875">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000876.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="876">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000877.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="877">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000878.html">[Nel] How to use 'Pacs' with static geometries like BSP?
+</A><A NAME="878">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>±èÇö¿ì
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000879.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="879">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000880.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="880">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000882.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="882">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000883.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="883">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000884.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="884">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000886.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="886">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000887.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="887">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000885.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="885">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000888.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="888">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000889.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="889">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000890.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="890">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000891.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="891">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000893.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="893">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000894.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="894">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000895.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="895">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000896.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="896">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000892.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="892">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000897.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="897">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000898.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="898">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000899.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="899">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000900.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="900">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000901.html">Re[6]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="901">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000902.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="902">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000903.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="903">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000904.html">[Nel] itsalive
+</A><A NAME="904">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000905.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="905">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000906.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="906">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000907.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="907">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000908.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="908">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000909.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="909">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000910.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="910">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000911.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="911">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000912.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="912">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000913.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="913">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000914.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="914">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Veritable Killer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000915.html">[Nel] (no subject)-> c bô les études
+</A><A NAME="915">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daylon --
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000916.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_les_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="916">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000917.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BNel=5D_Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_le?=
+ =?iso-8859-1?Q?s_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="917">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000918.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="918">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>n_ki
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000919.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="919">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000920.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="920">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000921.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="921">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000922.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="922">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000923.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="923">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000924.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="924">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000925.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="925">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000926.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="926">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000927.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="927">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000928.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="928">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000929.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="929">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000930.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="930">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000931.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="931">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000932.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="932">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000933.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="933">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000934.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="934">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000935.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="935">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000936.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="936">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000937.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="937">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000938.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="938">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000939.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="939">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000940.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="940">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000941.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="941">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000942.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="942">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000943.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="943">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000944.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="944">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000945.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="945">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000946.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="946">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000947.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="947">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000948.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="948">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000949.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="949">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000950.html">[Nel] Plain text messages, please?
+</A><A NAME="950">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List (Jon)
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000951.html">[Nel] Game Object Models (was:  Plain text messages, please?)
+</A><A NAME="951">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000952.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="952">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000954.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="954">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000955.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="955">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier Cado
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000956.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="956">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000957.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="957">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000958.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="958">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000953.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="953">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>delire
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/subject.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,532 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-January Archive by Subject</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-January Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  2 17:58:42 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 121<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="000899.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="899">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000900.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="900">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000914.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="914">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Veritable Killer
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000915.html">[Nel] (no subject)-> c bô les études
+</A><A NAME="915">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daylon --
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000916.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_les_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="916">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000917.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BNel=5D_Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_le?=
+ =?iso-8859-1?Q?s_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="917">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000838.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="838">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000952.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="952">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000955.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="955">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier Cado
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000859.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="859">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000860.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="860">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000862.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="862">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000911.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="911">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000912.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="912">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000918.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="918">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>n_ki
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000919.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="919">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000920.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="920">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000858.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="858">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000869.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="869">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000874.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="874">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000873.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="873">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000957.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="957">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000907.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="907">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000938.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="938">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000948.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="948">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000951.html">[Nel] Game Object Models (was:  Plain text messages, please?)
+</A><A NAME="951">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000864.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="864">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000865.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="865">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000866.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="866">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000867.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="867">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000870.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="870">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000875.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="875">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000876.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="876">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000877.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="877">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000878.html">[Nel] How to use 'Pacs' with static geometries like BSP?
+</A><A NAME="878">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>±èÇö¿ì
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000861.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="861">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000871.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="871">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000927.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="927">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000928.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="928">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000863.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="863">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000881.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="881">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000882.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="882">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000903.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="903">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000913.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="913">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000880.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="880">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000883.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="883">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000888.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="888">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000894.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="894">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000895.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="895">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000896.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="896">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000908.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="908">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000910.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="910">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000924.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="924">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000940.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="940">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000943.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="943">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000947.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="947">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000904.html">[Nel] itsalive
+</A><A NAME="904">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000897.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="897">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000898.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="898">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000840.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="840">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000841.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="841">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000843.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="843">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000872.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="872">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000879.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="879">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000850.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="850">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000851.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="851">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000853.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="853">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000946.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="946">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000949.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="949">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000956.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="956">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000921.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="921">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000923.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="923">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000926.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="926">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000944.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="944">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000945.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="945">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000950.html">[Nel] Plain text messages, please?
+</A><A NAME="950">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List (Jon)
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000929.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="929">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000930.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="930">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000931.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="931">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000932.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="932">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000933.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="933">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000934.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="934">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000935.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="935">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000936.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="936">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000937.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="937">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000939.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="939">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000884.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="884">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000886.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="886">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000889.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="889">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000854.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="854">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000855.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="855">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000844.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="844">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000845.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="845">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Zane
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000846.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="846">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000847.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="847">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000848.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="848">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000958.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="958">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000954.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="954">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000953.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="953">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>delire
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000902.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="902">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000905.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="905">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000906.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="906">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000909.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="909">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000922.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="922">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000925.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="925">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000941.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="941">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000942.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="942">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000856.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="856">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000857.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="857">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon (noos)
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000868.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="868">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000839.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="839">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000842.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="842">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000887.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="887">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000885.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="885">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000890.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="890">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000891.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="891">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000849.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="849">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000852.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="852">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000893.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="893">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000892.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="892">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="000901.html">Re[6]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="901">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/thread.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,753 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-January Archive by Thread</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-January Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Jan  2 17:58:42 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 121<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01009990722- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000838.html">[Nel] Building Nel
+</A><A NAME="838">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<!--0 01009997540- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000839.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="839">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01009997540-01010045466- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000842.html">[Nel] Welding and Lighting zones
+</A><A NAME="842">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010024908- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000840.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="840">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010024908-01010047752- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000843.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="843">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010030144- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000841.html">[Nel] Licensing Issue
+</A><A NAME="841">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>James Sanders
+</I>
+<!--0 01010073233- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000844.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="844">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010073233-01010074164- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000845.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="845">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Zane
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010073233-01010074164-01010077592- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000847.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="847">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01010073233-01010077476- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000846.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="846">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--1 01010073233-01010081372- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000848.html">[Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="848">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010073233-01010081372-01010086831- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000849.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="849">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dim Segebart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01010073233-01010081372-01010086831-01010137377- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000852.html">Re[2]: [Nel] RE: Nel miscellanea
+</A><A NAME="852">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010119855- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000850.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="850">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010119855-01010134112- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000851.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="851">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010119855-01010134112-01010146086- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000853.html">[Nel] NeL Build Problems
+</A><A NAME="853">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01010119855-01010134112-01010146086-01010188115- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000858.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="858">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<!--3 01010119855-01010134112-01010146086-01010188115-01010392751- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000869.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="869">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01010119855-01010134112-01010146086-01010188115-01010392751-01010432826- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000873.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="873">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+<!--3 01010119855-01010134112-01010146086-01010188115-01010392751-01010432826-01010426963- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000874.html">[Nel] CVS messes up line terminators (CR LF -> NL)
+</A><A NAME="874">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010166721- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000854.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="854">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Jon Watte
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010166721-01010168506- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000855.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #214 - 9 msgs
+</A><A NAME="855">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010179796- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000856.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="856">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010179796-01010180607- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000857.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="857">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Hognon (noos)
+</I>
+<!--1 01010179796-01010392557- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000868.html">[Nel] VC6 Build Error C1001
+</A><A NAME="868">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010232581- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000859.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="859">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010232581-01010236743- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000860.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="860">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<!--1 01010232581-01010264527- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000862.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL on debian woody + error during compilation
+</A><A NAME="862">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010232581-01010264527-01010268039- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000863.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="863">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01010232581-01010264527-01010268039-01010426054- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000881.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="881">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Thomas RIBO
+</I>
+<!--3 01010232581-01010264527-01010268039-01010426054-01010517693- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000882.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="882">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<!--3 01010232581-01010264527-01010268039-01010426054-01010517693-01010871314- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000903.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="903">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<!--3 01010232581-01010264527-01010268039-01010426054-01010517693-01010871314-01011791220- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000913.html">[Nel] Issue running snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="913">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010270601- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000861.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="861">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010270601-01010415927- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000871.html">[Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="871">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010270601-01010415927-01010562967- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000887.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="887">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01010270601-01010415927-01010562967-01010570891- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000890.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="890">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<!--3 01010270601-01010415927-01010562967-01010571066- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000891.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="891">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<!--3 01010270601-01010415927-01010562967-01010571066-01010622631- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000892.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="892">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<!--3 01010270601-01010415927-01010562967-01010571066-01010622631-01010594037- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000893.html">Re[4]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="893">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Benjamin Legros
+</I>
+<!--3 01010270601-01010415927-01010562967-01010571066-01010622631-01010594037-01010787524- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000901.html">Re[6]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="901">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010362464- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000864.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="864">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010362464-01010373124- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000865.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="865">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Mike Bresnahan
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010384884- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000866.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="866">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010384884-01010390383- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000867.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="867">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+<!--1 01010384884-01010393405- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000870.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="870">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010417737- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000872.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="872">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010417737-01010501869- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000879.html">[Nel] Linux: patch for misc/mutex.cpp (cf. David Mentre post)
+</A><A NAME="879">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010435021- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000875.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="875">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010435021-01010435688- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000876.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="876">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010440703- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000877.html">[Nel] Help compiling and cvs....
+</A><A NAME="877">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<!--0 01010501199- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000878.html">[Nel] How to use 'Pacs' with static geometries like BSP?
+</A><A NAME="878">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>±èÇö¿ì
+</I>
+<!--0 01010511286- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000880.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="880">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010511286-01010518768- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000883.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="883">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000888.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="888">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010596540- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000894.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="894">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010611709- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000895.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="895">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010613856- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000896.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="896">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010613856-01011686684- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000908.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="908">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lionel Berenguier
+</I>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010613856-01011686684-01011711337- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000910.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="910">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010613856-01011686684-01011711337-01011896997- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000924.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="924">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010613856-01011686684-01011711337-01011896997-01012206965- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000940.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="940">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01010511286-01010518768-01010568107-01010613856-01011686684-01011711337-01011896997-01012206965-01012226807- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000943.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="943">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010526117- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000884.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="884">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010526117-01010539378- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000886.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="886">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Kai Schutte
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010563478- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000885.html">Re[2]: [Nel] How to use CollisionMeshBuild (.cmb)
+</A><A NAME="885">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<!--0 01010569214- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000889.html">[Nel] problems compiling....
+</A><A NAME="889">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthew Shapiro
+</I>
+<!--0 01010651919- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000897.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="897">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010651919-01010656362- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000898.html">[Nel] libxml / configure problem
+</A><A NAME="898">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010752836- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000899.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="899">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010752836-01010754849- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000900.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="900">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01010869816- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000902.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="902">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David Mentre
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01010869816-01011087134- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000905.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="905">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010869816-01011087134-01011088874- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000906.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="906">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Ian Cahoon
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01010869816-01011709471- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000909.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="909">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01010869816-01011709471-01011895233- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000922.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="922">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01010869816-01011709471-01011895233-01011897879- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000925.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="925">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<!--3 01010869816-01011709471-01011895233-01011897879-01012221499- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000941.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="941">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<!--3 01010869816-01011709471-01011895233-01011897879-01012221499-01012226497- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000942.html">[Nel] Unable to compile nelns on linux
+</A><A NAME="942">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01011085854- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000904.html">[Nel] itsalive
+</A><A NAME="904">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--0 01011653250- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000907.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="907">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01011653250-01012013738- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000938.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="938">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01011727825- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000911.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="911">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01011727825-01011778228- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000912.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="912">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01011727825-01011778228-01011807835- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000918.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="918">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>n_ki
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01011727825-01011778228-01011807835-01011861739- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000919.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="919">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01011727825-01011778228-01011807835-01011884621- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000920.html">[Nel] compiling nel on ppc
+</A><A NAME="920">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01011794008- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000914.html">[Nel] (no subject)
+</A><A NAME="914">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Veritable Killer
+</I>
+<!--0 01011803290- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000915.html">[Nel] (no subject)-> c bô les études
+</A><A NAME="915">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daylon --
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01011803290-01011803874- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000916.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_les_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="916">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01011803290-01011803874-01011805197- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000917.html">[Nel] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BNel=5D_Re:_=5BNel=5D_=28no_subject=29-=3E_c_b=F4_le?=
+ =?iso-8859-1?Q?s_=E9tudes?=
+</A><A NAME="917">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01011888128- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000921.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="921">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01011888128-01011895347- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000923.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="923">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01011888128-01011895347-01011898999- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000926.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="926">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01011888128-01011895347-01011898999-01012227874- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000945.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="945">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01011888128-01011976867- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000929.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="929">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01011888128-01011976867-01011978453- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000930.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="930">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01011888128-01011976867-01011978453-01011978982- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000931.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="931">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<!--3 01011888128-01011976867-01011978453-01011978982-01011979768- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000932.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="932">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<!--3 01011888128-01011976867-01011978453-01011978982-01011979768-01011980486- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000933.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="933">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01011888128-01011976867-01012002755- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000937.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="937">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01011888128-01011976867-01012002755-01012206563- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000939.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="939">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01011888128-01012227015- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000944.html">[Nel] OpenAL issues to build nel
+</A><A NAME="944">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01011932295- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000927.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="927">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Tony Hoyt
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01011932295-01011945145- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000928.html">[Nel] I can't compile.. but I don't think it's source related exactly....
+</A><A NAME="928">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Emmanuel Deloget
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01011984467- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000934.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="934">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Michael Warnock
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01011984467-01011988559- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000935.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="935">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01011984467-01011988559-01011991718- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000936.html">[Nel] ppc build
+</A><A NAME="936">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01012237846- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000946.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="946">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01012237846-01012307751- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000949.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="949">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cedric Valignat
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01012237846-01012307751-01012420373- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000956.html">[Nel] NeL M4 macros bug
+</A><A NAME="956">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01012247297- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000947.html">[Nel] Issue to run snowballs2
+</A><A NAME="947">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>David MENTRE
+</I>
+<!--0 01012284332- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000948.html">[Nel] Game Object Models
+</A><A NAME="948">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<!--0 01012323702- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000950.html">[Nel] Plain text messages, please?
+</A><A NAME="950">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nel List (Jon)
+</I>
+<!--0 01012324408- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000951.html">[Nel] Game Object Models (was:  Plain text messages, please?)
+</A><A NAME="951">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<!--0 01012336918- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000952.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="952">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yvan POEYMIROU
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01012336918-01012384534- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000955.html">[Nel] Compilation errors on OpenAL Driver ?!
+</A><A NAME="955">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Olivier Cado
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01012448159- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000957.html">[Nel] Data Ownership
+</A><A NAME="957">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>John Hayes
+</I>
+<!--0 01012491828- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000958.html">[Nel] SnowBall login prb
+</A><A NAME="958">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<!--0 01012516578- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000953.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="953">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>delire
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01012516578-01012344343- -->
+<LI><A HREF="000954.html">[Nel] STLport not found during NeL Compile
+</A><A NAME="954">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nik gaffney
+</I>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-March/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..796268db
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,271 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-March Archive by Date</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-March Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Mar  1 09:01:38 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 56<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001135.html">[Nel] News
+</A><A NAME="1135">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001137.html">[Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+</A><A NAME="1137">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001138.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1138">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001140.html">[Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+</A><A NAME="1140">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001141.html">[Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+</A><A NAME="1141">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001142.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1142">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001143.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1143">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yan Babilliot
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001144.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1144">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001145.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1145">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001139.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1139">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001146.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1146">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001156.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1156">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001147.html">[Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+</A><A NAME="1147">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001148.html">[Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+</A><A NAME="1148">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001149.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1149">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001150.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1150">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001157.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1157">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001152.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1152">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001153.html">[Nel] Snowballs screenshots
+</A><A NAME="1153">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001151.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1151">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001154.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1154">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001158.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1158">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001159.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1159">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001155.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1155">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001160.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1160">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001174.html">[Nel] A* - Behaviour - Scripting Language
+</A><A NAME="1174">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Akhoun =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001161.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1161">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001162.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1162">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001182.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1182">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001163.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1163">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001175.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1175">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001176.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1176">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001164.html">[Nel] NeL Debian GNU/Linux unstable package
+</A><A NAME="1164">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001165.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1165">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001166.html">[Nel] Snowballs binary
+</A><A NAME="1166">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001167.html">[Nel] Small typo
+</A><A NAME="1167">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001168.html">[Nel] snowballs frontend (sno_frontend) lossage
+</A><A NAME="1168">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001169.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for snowballs data
+</A><A NAME="1169">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001172.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for nelns
+</A><A NAME="1172">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001173.html">[Nel] another snowballs server
+</A><A NAME="1173">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001177.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1177">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001178.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1178">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001179.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1179">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>sameh chafik Pro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001180.html">[Nel] Download section updated
+</A><A NAME="1180">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001185.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1185">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Portier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001170.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+</A><A NAME="1170">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001186.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+</A><A NAME="1186">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001189.html">[Nel] Patches for GNU/Linux packaging
+</A><A NAME="1189">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001171.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1171">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001187.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1187">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001188.html">[Nel] Mailing list problem
+</A><A NAME="1188">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001181.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1181">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001183.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1183">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthieu Besson
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001184.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1184">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001190.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1190">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001191.html">[Nel] another snowballs server
+</A><A NAME="1191">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Mar 14 14:35:31 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-March/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7cb146d7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,271 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-March Archive by Subject</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-March Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Mar  1 09:01:38 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 56<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI><A HREF="001174.html">[Nel] A* - Behaviour - Scripting Language
+</A><A NAME="1174">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Akhoun =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?=
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001165.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1165">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001179.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1179">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>sameh chafik Pro
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001185.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1185">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Portier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001184.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1184">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001173.html">[Nel] another snowballs server
+</A><A NAME="1173">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001191.html">[Nel] another snowballs server
+</A><A NAME="1191">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001140.html">[Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+</A><A NAME="1140">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001141.html">[Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+</A><A NAME="1141">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001157.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1157">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001152.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1152">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001151.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1151">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001142.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1142">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001143.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1143">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yan Babilliot
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001145.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1145">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001172.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for nelns
+</A><A NAME="1172">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001169.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for snowballs data
+</A><A NAME="1169">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001171.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1171">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001187.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1187">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001190.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1190">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001180.html">[Nel] Download section updated
+</A><A NAME="1180">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001146.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1146">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001156.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1156">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001149.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1149">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001150.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1150">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001158.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1158">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001159.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1159">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001160.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1160">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001161.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1161">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001162.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1162">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001182.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1182">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001137.html">[Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+</A><A NAME="1137">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001188.html">[Nel] Mailing list problem
+</A><A NAME="1188">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001147.html">[Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+</A><A NAME="1147">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001148.html">[Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+</A><A NAME="1148">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001164.html">[Nel] NeL Debian GNU/Linux unstable package
+</A><A NAME="1164">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001135.html">[Nel] News
+</A><A NAME="1135">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001189.html">[Nel] Patches for GNU/Linux packaging
+</A><A NAME="1189">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001138.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1138">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001144.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1144">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001139.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1139">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001167.html">[Nel] Small typo
+</A><A NAME="1167">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001166.html">[Nel] Snowballs binary
+</A><A NAME="1166">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001168.html">[Nel] snowballs frontend (sno_frontend) lossage
+</A><A NAME="1168">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001153.html">[Nel] Snowballs screenshots
+</A><A NAME="1153">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001163.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1163">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001177.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1177">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001178.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1178">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001175.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1175">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001176.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1176">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001181.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1181">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001183.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1183">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthieu Besson
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001170.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+</A><A NAME="1170">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001186.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+</A><A NAME="1186">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001154.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1154">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<LI><A HREF="001155.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1155">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Mar 14 14:35:31 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-March/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..40553fe6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,363 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel 2002-March Archive by Thread</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+     
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2002-March Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Mar  1 09:01:38 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 56<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 01014969698- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001135.html">[Nel] News
+</A><A NAME="1135">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--0 01014976598- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001137.html">[Nel] Is it possible to have TGA files  from snowball demo to make tile
+</A><A NAME="1137">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--0 01014987205- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001138.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1138">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>neuser jean-philippe
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014987205-01014997392- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001144.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1144">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--1 01014987205-01015019013- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001139.html">[Nel] prb to paint and export patch under 3DSMAX
+</A><A NAME="1139">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014992720- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001140.html">[Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+</A><A NAME="1140">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014992720-01014993913- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001141.html">[Nel] compiling nel: syntax error in ps_ribbon.cpp
+</A><A NAME="1141">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01014994161- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001142.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1142">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01014994161-01014996169- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001143.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1143">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Yan Babilliot
+</I>
+<!--1 01014994161-01014997657- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001145.html">[Nel] cpp to html in php :)
+</A><A NAME="1145">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vincent Caron
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015020928- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001146.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1146">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015020928-01015066993- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001156.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1156">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01015020928-01015066993-01015318032- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001158.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1158">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01015020928-01015066993-01015318032-01015405140- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001160.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1160">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--3 01015020928-01015066993-01015318032-01015405140-01015406604- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001161.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1161">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--3 01015020928-01015066993-01015318032-01015418892- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001182.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1182">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 01015020928-01015066993-01015318562- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001159.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1159">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 01015020928-01015066993-01015318562-01015417366- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001162.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1162">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Lars Weber
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01015020928-01015230652- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001149.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1149">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01015020928-01015230652-01015246639- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001150.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation patches
+</A><A NAME="1150">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015207134- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001147.html">[Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+</A><A NAME="1147">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Dennis McGregor
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015207134-01015229329- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001148.html">[Nel] missing file "water_imp.cpp"
+</A><A NAME="1148">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015263965- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001153.html">[Nel] Snowballs screenshots
+</A><A NAME="1153">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--0 01015282869- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001151.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1151">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015282869-01015254899- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001157.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1157">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--1 01015282869-01015255461- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001152.html">[Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1152">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01015282869-01015255461-01015300178- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001154.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1154">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<!--2 01015282869-01015255461-01015329110- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001155.html">Re[2]: [Nel] Compiling Object Viewer w/Release config
+</A><A NAME="1155">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015406327- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001174.html">[Nel] A* - Behaviour - Scripting Language
+</A><A NAME="1174">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Akhoun =?ISO-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane?=
+</I>
+<!--0 01015444790- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001163.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1163">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Paul Siegel
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015444790-01015833950- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001177.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1177">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Nicolas Vizerie
+</I>
+<!--1 01015444790-01015835004- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001178.html">[Nel] STLPort update
+</A><A NAME="1178">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015602075- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001175.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1175">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<!--0 01015618869- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001176.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1176">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015618869-01015941422- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001181.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1181">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier
+</I>
+<!--1 01015618869-01015941906- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001183.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters
+</A><A NAME="1183">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Matthieu Besson
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015668736- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001164.html">[Nel] NeL Debian GNU/Linux unstable package
+</A><A NAME="1164">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015675468- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001165.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1165">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015675468-01015838015- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001179.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1179">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>sameh chafik Pro
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01015675468-01015838015-01015951584- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001184.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1184">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 01015675468-01015840961- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001185.html">[Nel] AI
+</A><A NAME="1185">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Pierre Portier
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015753476- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001166.html">[Nel] Snowballs binary
+</A><A NAME="1166">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015756126- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001167.html">[Nel] Small typo
+</A><A NAME="1167">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015759461- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001168.html">[Nel] snowballs frontend (sno_frontend) lossage
+</A><A NAME="1168">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015774670- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001169.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for snowballs data
+</A><A NAME="1169">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015802098- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001172.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux package for nelns
+</A><A NAME="1172">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015802801- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001173.html">[Nel] another snowballs server
+</A><A NAME="1173">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015838608- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001180.html">[Nel] Download section updated
+</A><A NAME="1180">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Vianney Lecroart
+</I>
+<!--0 01015848630- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001170.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+</A><A NAME="1170">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Robert Bjarnason
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015848630-01015849019- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001186.html">[Nel] Tips on Portals/Clusters...
+</A><A NAME="1186">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015875872- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001189.html">[Nel] Patches for GNU/Linux packaging
+</A><A NAME="1189">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<!--0 01015876776- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001171.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1171">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 01015876776-01015880993- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001187.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1187">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 01015876776-01015880993-01016039297- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001190.html">[Nel] Debian GNU/Linux packages for nel/nelns/snowballs
+</A><A NAME="1190">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Loic Dachary
+</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 01015922017- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001188.html">[Nel] Mailing list problem
+</A><A NAME="1188">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>Daniel Miller
+</I>
+<!--0 01016109057- -->
+<LI><A HREF="001191.html">[Nel] another snowballs server
+</A><A NAME="1191">&nbsp;</A>
+<I>nel@nevrax.org
+</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Mar 14 14:35:31 2002</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/index.html b/pipermail/nel/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..598e990f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,240 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Nel Archives</title>
+     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+     <h1>The Nel Archives </h1>
+     <p>
+      You can get <a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">more information about this list</a>
+      or you can <a href="../nel.mbox/nel.mbox">download the full raw archive</a>
+      ( 4 MB ).
+     </p>
+     
+     	<table border=3>
+          <tr><td>Archive</td>
+          <td>View by:</td>
+          <td>Downloadable version</td></tr>
+
+     
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2002-March:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2002-March/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-March/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-March/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-March/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2002-March.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 0 bytes ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2002-February:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2002-February/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-February/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-February/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-February/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2002-February.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 173 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2002-January:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2002-January/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-January/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-January/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2002-January/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2002-January.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 183 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-December:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-December/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-December/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-December/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-December/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-December.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 57 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-November:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-November/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-November/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-November/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-November/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-November.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 29 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-October:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-October/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-October/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-October/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-October/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-October.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 52 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-September:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-September/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-September/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-September/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-September/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-September.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 2 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-August:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-August/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-August/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-August/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-August/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-August.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 14 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-July:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-July/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-July/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-July/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-July/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-July.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 34 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-June:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-June/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-June/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-June/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-June/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-June.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 23 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-May:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-May/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-May/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-May/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-May/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-May.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 1 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-April:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-April/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-April/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-April/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-April/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-April.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 15 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-March:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-March/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-March/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-March/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-March/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-March.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 32 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-February:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-February/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-February/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-February/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-February/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-February.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 68 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-January:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-January/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-January/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-January/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-January/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-January.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 27 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2000-December:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2000-December/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-December/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-December/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-December/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2000-December.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 5 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2000-November:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2000-November/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-November/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-November/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-November/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2000-November.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 30 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2000-October:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2000-October/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-October/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-October/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2000-October/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            
+            </tr>
+
+
+              </table>
+
+     </BODY>
+     </HTML>
diff --git a/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/date.html b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/date.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b45d4700
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/date.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Snowballs 2001-February Archive by Date</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Date</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Feb  2 16:09:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Feb  9 11:01:55 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 16<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Snowballs] New release</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Snowballs] Aaargh! Incomming ./ effect!</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Snowballs] Aaargh! Incomming ./ effect!</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs - Finally snowballs runs!</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Snowballs] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Feb  9 11:01:55 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Feb  9 12:03:32 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/subject.html b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..784da71c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Snowballs 2001-February Archive by Subject</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Subject</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Feb  2 16:09:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Feb  9 11:01:55 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 16<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Snowballs] Aaargh! Incomming ./ effect!</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Snowballs] Aaargh! Incomming ./ effect!</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Snowballs] New release</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs - Finally snowballs runs!</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Snowballs] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Feb  9 11:01:55 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Feb  9 12:03:32 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/thread.html b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b166a504
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-February/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,97 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Snowballs 2001-February Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-February Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Fri Feb  2 16:09:07 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Feb  9 11:01:55 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 16<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00981126547- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs</A> <A NAME="916"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981126547-00981449617- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs</A> <A NAME="917"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981126547-00981449617-00981580103- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Snowballs] Aaargh! Incomming ./ effect!</A> <A NAME="928"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00981126547-00981449617-00981580103-00981615568- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Snowballs] Aaargh! Incomming ./ effect!</A> <A NAME="929"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--2 00981126547-00981449617-00981646020- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Snowballs] Runnign snowballs - Finally snowballs runs!</A> <A NAME="930"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00981126547-00981449617-00981646020-00981712915- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Snowballs] snowballs is slow</A> <A NAME="931"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981494439- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="918"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981494439-00981531777- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="919"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981494439-00981531777-00981539747- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="920"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00981494439-00981531777-00981539747-00981540015- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="921"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00981494439-00981531777-00981539747-00981540015-00981541573- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Snowballs] error launching snwoballs.exe</A> <A NAME="922"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00981554577- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Snowballs] New release</A> <A NAME="923"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00981556070- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="924"></A><I>Julien Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00981556070-00981556748- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="925"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00981556070-00981556748-00981561480- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="926"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00981556070-00981556748-00981561480-00981562087- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Snowballs] CDRU::drawBitmap</A> <A NAME="927"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Fri Feb  9 11:01:55 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Feb  9 12:03:32 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/snowballs/2001-January/author.html b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-January/author.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..adabc8b7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-January/author.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Snowballs 2001-January Archive by Author</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-January Archives by Author</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jan 18 13:46:13 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Jan 24 09:56:42 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 6<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Snowballs] Multitexturing</A> <A NAME="2"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Snowballs] Error launching demo, missing GL extension</A> <A NAME="4"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000000.html">[Snowballs] multi texturing error (not supported on my graphic board</A> <A NAME="0"></A><I>Arnaud Gomes</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Snowballs] exception toto2</A> <A NAME="5"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000001.html">[Snowballs] bug about pctest</A> <A NAME="1"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Snowballs] Error launching demo, missing GL extension</A> <A NAME="3"></A><I>Jerome Tournier</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Jan 24 09:56:42 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Jan 24 10:57:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/snowballs/2001-January/thread.html b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-January/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..aabaa274
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/snowballs/2001-January/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Snowballs 2001-January Archive by Thread</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+      <a name="start"></A>
+      <h1>2001-January Archives by Thread</h1>
+      <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+      </ul>
+      <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Jan 18 13:46:13 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Ending:</b> <i>Wed Jan 24 09:56:42 2001</i><br>
+         <b>Messages:</b> 6<p>
+     <ul>
+
+<!--0 00979821973- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000000.html">[Snowballs] multi texturing error (not supported on my graphic board</A> <A NAME="910"></A><I>Arnaud Gomes</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979821973-00979822529- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000001.html">[Snowballs] bug about pctest</A> <A NAME="911"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00979833043- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Snowballs] Multitexturing</A> <A NAME="912"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<!--0 00979941449- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Snowballs] Error launching demo, missing GL extension</A> <A NAME="913"></A><I>Jerome Tournier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00979941449-00980150166- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Snowballs] Error launching demo, missing GL extension</A> <A NAME="914"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00980326602- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Snowballs] exception toto2</A> <A NAME="915"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+    </ul>
+    <p>
+      <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> 
+       <i>Wed Jan 24 09:56:42 2001</i><br>
+    <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Wed Jan 24 10:57:01 2001</i>
+    <p>
+   <ul>
+         <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+	        
+		<a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+		<a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+		<a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+	     <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...
+                    </a></b></li>
+     </ul>
+     <p>
+     <hr>
+     <i>This archive was generated by
+     Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+  </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/snowballs/index.html b/pipermail/snowballs/index.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..294fd9b9
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/snowballs/index.html
@@ -0,0 +1,93 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+  <HEAD>
+     <title>The Snowballs Archives</title>
+  </HEAD>
+  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+     <h1>The Snowballs Archives </h1>
+     <p>
+      <a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs">More info on this list...</a>
+     </p>
+     
+     	<table border=3>
+          <tr><td>Archive</td>
+          <td>View by:</td>
+          <td>Downloadable version</td></tr>
+
+     
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-November:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-November/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-November/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-November/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-November/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-November.txt">[ Text 797 bytes ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-October:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-October/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-October/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-October/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-October/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-October.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 317 bytes ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-August:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-August/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-August/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-August/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-August/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-August.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 945 bytes ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-June:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-June/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-June/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-June/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-June/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-June.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 300 bytes ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-February:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-February/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-February/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-February/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-February/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-February.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 5 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+	    <tr>
+            <td>2001-January:</td>
+            <td>
+              <A href="2001-January/thread.html">[ Thread ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-January/subject.html">[ Subject ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-January/author.html">[ Author ]</a>
+              <A href="2001-January/date.html">[ Date ]</a>
+            </td>
+            <td><A href="2001-January.txt.gz">[ Gzip'd Text 2 KB ]</a></td>
+            </tr>
+
+
+              </table>
+
+     </BODY>
+     </HTML>