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| author | neodarz <neodarz@neodarz.net> | 2018-08-11 20:21:34 +0200 |
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| committer | neodarz <neodarz@neodarz.net> | 2018-08-11 20:21:34 +0200 |
| commit | 0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2 (patch) | |
| tree | 2568e71a7ccc44ec23b8bb3f0ff97fb6bf2ed709 /pipermail/nel/2001-June | |
| download | nevrax-website-self-hostable-0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2.tar.xz nevrax-website-self-hostable-0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2.zip | |
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c481beee --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball for Win32</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000418.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowball for Win32</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowball for Win32">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:02:17 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#417">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#417">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#417">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#417">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti. + +------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball = +demo application?=20 + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +HateSeed.com Founder (<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>) +In Flames Italia Webmaster (<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>) +My Lab (<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>) + +------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> +<HTML><HEAD> +<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = +charset=3Diso-8859-1"> +<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR> +<STYLE></STYLE> +</HEAD> +<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish = +a Win32=20 +version of the Snowball demo application? </FONT></DIV> +<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio = +Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20 +(<A href=3D"<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com"">http://www.hateseed.com"</A>><A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com</A">http://www.hateseed.com</A</A>>)<BR>In = +Flames=20 +Italia Webmaster (<A=20 +href=3D"<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it"">http://www.inflames.it"</A>><A HREF="http://www.inflames.it</A">http://www.inflames.it</A</A>>)<BR>My Lab = +(<A=20 +href=3D"<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com"">http://tanis.hateseed.com"</A>><A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com</A">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A</A>>)</FONT><= +/DIV></BODY></HTML> + +------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0-- + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#417">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#417">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#417">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#417">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..77127d7a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball for Win32</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000417.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000420.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowball for Win32</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowball for Win32">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:28:52 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#418">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#418">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#418">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#418">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi Valerio, + +Valerio Santinelli wrote: +><i> Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball +</I>><i> demo application? +</I> +Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit. We're planning to put +together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D +code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there +we'll look at releasing a binary. I hope this helps. + +Regards, + + +Cedric. + + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#418">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#418">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#418">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#418">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c1c97cc2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Itsalive is dead</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000420.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000421.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Itsalive is dead</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Itsalive is dead">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:21:45 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#419">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#419">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#419">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#419">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi all, + +Itsalive decide to give up (due to a hardware problem). + +There'll be a new posting as soon as it's resurected. + + +Cedric. + +PS: Itsalive is our Snowballs server ... + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#419">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#419">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#419">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#419">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4e4a3284 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball for Win32</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000418.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000419.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowball for Win32</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowball for Win32">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:26:34 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#420">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#420">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#420">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#420">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I talked to Ace and I'll wait for the new version of Snowball to be +released. Thanks :) + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A> + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Cedric Valignat" <<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:28 PM +Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball for Win32 + + +><i> +</I>><i> Hi Valerio, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Valerio Santinelli wrote: +</I>><i> > Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball +</I>><i> > demo application? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit. We're planning to +</I>put +><i> together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D +</I>><i> code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there +</I>><i> we'll look at releasing a binary. I hope this helps. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Regards, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Cedric. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#420">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#420">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#420">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#420">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3f5401d0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Hello and a Question</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000419.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000423.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Hello and a Question</H1> + <B>Alfred</B> + <A HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au" + TITLE="[Nel] Hello and a Question">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:47:54 +1000</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#421">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#421">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#421">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#421">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hey guys, + My name is Alfred and my "credentials" are that I am the "father" of +admin mod (<A HREF="http://www.adminmod.org">http://www.adminmod.org</A>) along with being a devloper for some +other hl based mods (firearms for eg). + I work as a research engineer into tactical networks, so I have a fair +bit of experience with comms effects in harsh conditions (i.e the +general internet). + + Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed +architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as +CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of +support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am +not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make +your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and +authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with. + +-- +Alfred Reynolds +<A HREF="mailto:alfred@mazuma.net.au">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A> + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#421">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#421">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#421">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#421">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2657f61d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html @@ -0,0 +1,663 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] A bit of news</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000423.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000424.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] A bit of news</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] A bit of news">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:56:21 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#422">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#422">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#422">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#422">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. + +------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit + +For anyone who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at +Nevrax. + +Regards to all, +Daniel. + + + +================================================ +NeL Development Team Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap +================================================ + +Summer 2001: +============ + +The teams are working hard on the technology code required for an important +internal milestone, for the Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for +next September. The features listed under 'Coming Soon' (below) are on the +todo list for the internal milestone and will become available through the +summer. +During this period much of the code is being developed under Windows 2000 +(predominantly AI and 3D) and is liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/ +Linux testing. +Linux patches/ bug fixes will be readily accepted. + + +Autumn 2001: +============ +Once the internal milestone is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL +development teams will be reduced and we will open up discussion about +further direction, specification improvemens and so on. + + +Snowballs: +========== + +Snowballs is going to be re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the +advancements and changes of direction in the NeL library since January. +There'll be postings as development progresses. +We intend to release a binary once the new code has been put together. + + +Net: +==== + +Done so far: +------------ +- Layer 0 (Data transfer layer) implementation +- Layer 1 (Data block management layer) implementation +- Layer 2 (Serialised data management layer) implementation +- Layer 3 (Message management layer) implementation & examples +- Layer 4 (Inter-Service message addressing layer) implementation & examples +- The 'Service' Framework implementation & examples +- System services (Naming Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion, +API & examples +- Login system (Stand alone program, client API) implementation & samples + +In development: +--------------- +- Shard Administration system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client) +implementation +- Improved debugging tools for services in a shard + +Coming Soon: +------------ +- Backup Service +- Account manager (stand alone) + +On the list for later: +---------------------- +- Robustness testing and improvement (robustness to common attacks) +- System stress testing and stressed performance improvement +- Profiling and optimisation +- Tuning of GNU/ Linux for NeL shard servers + + +3D: +=== + +Done: +----- +- A basic sub set of the materials (missing bump mapping, etc) +- Scenery rendering - Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise +and water +- Scenery rendering - Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based +culling +- Character and object animation and rendering with exception of IK +- 3DSMax Plugins and exporters for generating the data for the above systems + +In development: +--------------- +- Light maps for indoor scenes +- A particle and effects engine + +Coming Soon: +------------ +- Further materials +- Multi resolution mesh support +- Adaptive level of detail management system +- Support for super-simplified meshes in the distance +- Geometric noise in the landscape +- The first version of the audio engine (low spec) +- Portal based object culling for indoor scenes + +Coming Later: +------------- +- Water +- Real time shadows (cast be characters and objects) +- Blend shapes (also called morphing) - for things like facial animation +- Further material types (bump maps, etc) +- Inverse kinematics (a very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model) +- Dynamic lighting +- A higher spec audio engine + +On the list for later: +---------------------- +- Optimisation +- Optimisation for NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc) +- Better model for generating low-detail MRM meshes + + +PACS (Pathfinding And Collision System): +======================================== + +In develoment: +-------------- +- System for generating collision and path finding information from outdoor +scenery +- Path finding system +- Object/ Object collision system +- Object/ Landscape collision system +- System for adapting character and object positions to landscape +tesselation + +Coming soon: +------------ +- System for generating collision and path finding information for indoor +scenery + + +AI: +=== + +Done: +----- +- Distributed autonomous agent framework infrastructure +- Run time agent definition scripting system +- Tool set for creation of hard-coded agents +- Finite state automaton plugin for agent framework +- 'Operator' based action planning plugin for the agent framework + +In Development: +--------------- +- Agent memory +- 'Classifier' based learning plugin for teh agent framework +- Priority and contribution management in operators + + +Misc: +===== + +Done so far: +------------ +- A huge number of miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes, +constants and functions that everybody at Nevrax swears by. +Further development: +- Development of the 'misc' library is chaotic - as little bits of +functionality are written to left or right they tend to be added. + + + +------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> +<HTML><HEAD> +<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = +charset=3Diso-8859-1"> +<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> +<BODY> +<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN = +class=3D153144915-15062001>For anyone=20 +who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at=20 +Nevrax.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN = +class=3D153144915-15062001>Regards to=20 +all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>Daniel.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>NeL = +Development Team=20 +Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT=20 +face=3DArial>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= +=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier = +New"><?xml:namespace=20 +prefix =3D o ns =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"=20 +/><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Summer = +2001:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>The teams are = +working hard=20 +on the technology code required for an important internal milestone, for = +the=20 +Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for next September.<SPAN=20 +style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>The features listed under = +'Coming Soon'=20 +(below) are on the todo list for the internal milestone and will become=20 +available through the summer.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>During this = +period much of=20 +the code is being developed under Windows 2000 (predominantly AI and 3D) = +and is=20 +liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/ Linux testing. </FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Linux = +patches/ bug fixes=20 +will be readily accepted.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Autumn = +2001:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></F= +ONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Once the = +internal milestone=20 +is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL development teams will be = +reduced=20 +and we will open up discussion about further direction, specification=20 +improvemens and so on.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New"><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2>Snowballs:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></= +DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Snowballs is = +going to be=20 +re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the advancements and = +changes of=20 +direction in the NeL library since January.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>There'll be = +postings as=20 +development progresses.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>We intend to = +release a=20 +binary once the new code has been put together.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2>Net:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so = +far:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 0 = +(Data transfer=20 +layer) implementation</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 1 = +(Data block=20 +management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 2 = +(Serialised data=20 +management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 3 = +(Message=20 +management layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 4 = +(Inter-Service=20 +message addressing layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The = +'Service' Framework=20 +implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System = +services (Naming=20 +Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion, API &amp;=20 +examples</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Login = +system (Stand alone=20 +program, client API) implementation &amp; samples</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20 +development:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Shard = +Administration=20 +system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client) implementation=20 +</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Improved = +debugging tools=20 +for services in a shard</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming = +Soon:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Backup=20 +Service</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Account = +manager (stand=20 +alone)</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list = +for=20 +later:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Robustness = +testing and=20 +improvement (robustness to common attacks)</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System = +stress testing and=20 +stressed performance improvement</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Profiling = +and=20 +optimisation</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tuning of = +GNU/ Linux for=20 +NeL shard servers</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2>3D:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A basic sub = +set of the=20 +materials (missing bump mapping, etc) </FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Scenery = +rendering -=20 +Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise and = +water</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- = +Scenery rendering -=20 +Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based culling<SPAN=20 +style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Character = +and object=20 +animation and rendering with exception of IK</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 3DSMax = +Plugins and=20 +exporters for generating the data for the above systems</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20 +development:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Light maps = +for indoor=20 +scenes</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A particle = +and effects=20 +engine</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming = +Soon:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further=20 +materials</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: = +FR"><FONT=20 +size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Multi resolution mesh=20 +support<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Adaptive = +level of detail=20 +management system</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Support for = + +super-simplified meshes in the distance</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Geometric = +noise in the=20 +landscape</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The first = +version of the=20 +audio engine (low spec)</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Portal = +based object=20 +culling for indoor scenes</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming = +Later:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>-------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- = +Water</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Real time = +shadows (cast=20 +be characters and objects)</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Blend = +shapes (also called=20 +morphing) - for things like facial animation</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further = +material types=20 +(bump maps, etc)</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Inverse = +kinematics (a=20 +very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Dynamic=20 +lighting</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A higher = +spec audio=20 +engine</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list = +for=20 +later:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- = +Optimisation</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- = +Optimisation for=20 +NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Better = +model for=20 +generating low-detail MRM meshes</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>PACS = +(Pathfinding And=20 +Collision System):</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV= +><i> +</I><DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In = +develoment:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>--------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for = +generating=20 +collision and path finding information from outdoor scenery</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Path = +finding=20 +system</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: = +FR"><FONT=20 +size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Object/ Object collision=20 +system<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Object/ = +Landscape=20 +collision system</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for = +adapting=20 +character and object positions to landscape tesselation</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming = +soon:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for = +generating=20 +collision and path finding information for indoor scenery</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2>AI:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Distributed = +autonomous=20 +agent framework infrastructure</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Run time = +agent definition=20 +scripting system</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tool set = +for creation of=20 +hard-coded agents </FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Finite = +state automaton=20 +plugin for agent framework</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 'Operator' = +based action=20 +planning plugin for the agent framework</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2>In = +Development<SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 +class=3D153144915-15062001>---------------</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Agent = +memory</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- = +'Classifier' based=20 +learning plugin for teh agent framework</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Priority = +and contribution=20 +management in operators</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2>Misc:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" = +size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so = +far:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT = +face=3D"Courier New"=20 +size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A huge = +number of=20 +miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes, constants and = +functions=20 +that everybody at Nevrax swears by.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Further=20 +development:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Development = +of the 'misc'=20 +library is chaotic - as little bits of functionality are written to left = +or=20 +right they tend to be added.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV> +<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20 +face=3D"Courier = +New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BODY></HTML> + +------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000-- + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#422">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#422">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#422">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#422">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aaddac09 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Hello and a Question</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000421.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000422.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Hello and a Question</H1> + <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Hello and a Question">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:35:16 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#423">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#423">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#423">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#423">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed +</I>><i> architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as +</I>><i> CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of +</I>><i> support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am +</I>><i> not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make +</I>><i> your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and +</I>><i> authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with. +</I> +As you point out, DCOM isn't portable so we ruled it out :) +As for CORBA: Having worked a fair bit with it while at college, I concluded +that it lacked some of the functionality that we wanted. For example, we can +have several instances of the same service running simultaneously on our +shard and the naming service can either return us a list of all of them or +select the least loaded one (which CORBA cannot do). What's more, we found +that CORBA was excessively heavy for our requirements, which only require a +corner of the system. Our naming service only took a couple of days to +develop and remains entirely open to expansion, adaptation or tuning to keep +up with NeL's evolving needs. + +We looked in depth into the ACE and TAO library (Real-time CORBA with TAO +(The ACE ORB)). The webpage seems down www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html, +but the lib is absolutely huge... one hour at least of compilation. We +didn't want to be dependent on such a large library just for a naming +service and a communication protocol. + +Regards, +Vianney + + + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#423">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#423">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#423">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#423">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e0575a2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html @@ -0,0 +1,56 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000424.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000426.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:35:43 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#425">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#425">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#425">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#425">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Within Nevrax we are planning to develop clients for Linux (tested on PCs) +and Microsoft Windows. This said, we will be happy to provide support to +anyone who feels like porting it to Mac OS X or any other platform. + + +Brandon Barker wrote: +><i>The game will still be available for Mac OS X, Linux, and maybe even other +</I>><i>operating systems, correct? After all, the user could just compile the +</I>><i>sources and buy the game at a store with the data files and play it on his +</I>><i>system of choice. +</I> + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#425">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#425">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#425">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#425">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f51e9a5a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html @@ -0,0 +1,130 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000425.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000427.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:22:02 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#426">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#426">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#426">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#426">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> + +Network +------- + +- Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers. + The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages + have been processed. + +- Improved responsiveness of API for naming service + Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming + service. They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered + with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the + API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses. + +- The message type compression has been dissabled + An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that + were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32 + value could be sent in place of the string. + This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has + been removed. + An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later. + +- New example for using 'login system' + It can be found in the samples directory + +- Improved performance of log messages + Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large + numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees + +- On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de + performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une + console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine) + +- New debugging aid + There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in + situation and for playing back the input to the same application running + stand alone. This allows the application to be traced, etc. + The system will go up on CVS within the next few days + + +PACS +---- + +- First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only + at the moment. + + +3D +-- + +- The header file have moved! + The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their + respective source files) + The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d + +- System for generating object positions on the landscape completed + This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position + within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch + tesselation. Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground + regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at. + +- In development... + Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the + editor for the particle system are in development. + + +Audio +----- + +- Work is starting on the audio library. + During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and + a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL + diver in the autumn. + + +AI +-- + +- Silence from the AI team + The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now. There will be + little news from them for a few months + + + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#426">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#426">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#426">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#426">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e5549606 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000426.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000428.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:32:40 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#427">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#427">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#427">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#427">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Cedric Valignat wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> - Improved performance of log messages +</I>><i> Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large +</I>><i> numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de +</I>><i> performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une +</I>><i> console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine) +</I> +Damn ! the preceding sentences are the french translation about the "Improved +performance of log messages" ... sorry about that. + + +Cedric. + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#427">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#427">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#427">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#427">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fe9c6a19 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000427.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000429.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1> + <B>Alfred</B> + <A HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au" + TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:48:35 +1000</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#428">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#428">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#428">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#428">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it +automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This +doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server +has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially +over high latency links). + +Cedric Valignat wrote: + +><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Network +</I>><i> ------- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers. +</I>><i> The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages +</I>><i> have been processed. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - Improved responsiveness of API for naming service +</I>><i> Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming +</I>><i> service. They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered +</I>><i> with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the +</I>><i> API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - The message type compression has been dissabled +</I>><i> An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that +</I>><i> were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32 +</I>><i> value could be sent in place of the string. +</I>><i> This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has +</I>><i> been removed. +</I>><i> An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - New example for using 'login system' +</I>><i> It can be found in the samples directory +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - Improved performance of log messages +</I>><i> Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large +</I>><i> numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de +</I>><i> performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une +</I>><i> console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - New debugging aid +</I>><i> There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in +</I>><i> situation and for playing back the input to the same application running +</I>><i> stand alone. This allows the application to be traced, etc. +</I>><i> The system will go up on CVS within the next few days +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> PACS +</I>><i> ---- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only +</I>><i> at the moment. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 3D +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - The header file have moved! +</I>><i> The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their +</I>><i> respective source files) +</I>><i> The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - System for generating object positions on the landscape completed +</I>><i> This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position +</I>><i> within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch +</I>><i> tesselation. Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground +</I>><i> regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - In development... +</I>><i> Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the +</I>><i> editor for the particle system are in development. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Audio +</I>><i> ----- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - Work is starting on the audio library. +</I>><i> During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and +</I>><i> a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL +</I>><i> diver in the autumn. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> AI +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - Silence from the AI team +</I>><i> The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now. There will be +</I>><i> little news from them for a few months +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +-- +Alfred Reynolds +<A HREF="mailto:alfred@mazuma.net.au">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A> + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#428">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#428">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#428">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#428">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..92ec07e7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000428.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000430.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</H1> + <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:10:07 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#429">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#429">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#429">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#429">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello, + + +><i> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it +</I>><i> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This +</I>><i> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server +</I>><i> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially +</I>><i> over high latency links). +</I> + +Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our +game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all ther +services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links. + +regards, + +Vianney Lecroart +--- +lead network programmer / nevrax.com +icq#: 6870415 +homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K- +w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? + + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#429">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#429">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#429">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#429">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf352cf3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000429.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000431.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:47:37 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#430">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#430">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#430">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#430">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this: + +- The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means +that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy +service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :) + +- This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on +the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service. +(in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login +service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory +showing how this works) + +- So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game +servers. It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at +address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'. +These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the +other services that they can talk to. + +- In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very +high frequency event. + +I hope this helps. + +Daniel. + + +-------------------------------------------------------------------- +Hello, + + +><i> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it +</I>><i> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This +</I>><i> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server +</I>><i> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially +</I>><i> over high latency links). +</I> + +Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our +game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all ther +services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links. + +regards, + +Vianney Lecroart + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#430">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#430">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#430">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#430">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bc34d337 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000430.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000441.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</H1> + <B>Dim Segebart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:33:30 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#431">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#431">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#431">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#431">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>It makes sense. +Thank you. + +Thursday, June 21, 2001, 6:47:37 PM, you wrote: + +DM> To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this: + +DM> - The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means +DM> that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy +DM> service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :) + +DM> - This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on +DM> the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service. +DM> (in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login +DM> service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory +DM> showing how this works) + +DM> - So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game +DM> servers. It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at +DM> address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'. +DM> These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the +DM> other services that they can talk to. + +DM> - In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very +DM> high frequency event. + +DM> I hope this helps. + +DM> Daniel. + + +DM> -------------------------------------------------------------------- +DM> Hello, + + +>><i> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it +</I>>><i> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This +</I>>><i> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server +</I>>><i> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially +</I>>><i> over high latency links). +</I> + +DM> Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our +DM> game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all ther +DM> services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links. + +DM> regards, + +DM> Vianney Lecroart + +DM> _______________________________________________ +DM> Nel mailing list +DM> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +DM> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> + + + +-- +Dim Segebart mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A> + + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#431">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#431">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#431">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#431">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cf025ff5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000441.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000433.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:08:48 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#432">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#432">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#432">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#432">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D +library: +The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards +compatible beyond versions 6. This means that you may need to re-generate +your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them. + +Regards to all +Daniel. + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#432">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#432">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#432">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#432">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dee3f322 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000432.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000434.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:55:25 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#433">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#433">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#433">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#433">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL, +except those at Nevrax themselves? + +It would be a good idea to keep the nevrax.org homepage updated with news +like this one and with some more documentation in order to get people +started on how the overall system works. Nowaday the only real documentation +is the one about the Network library which is good but it's not enough. + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A> + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Daniel Miller" <<A HREF="mailto:miller@nevrax.com">miller@nevrax.com</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:08 PM +Subject: [Nel] .shape file format change + + +><i> +</I>><i> A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D +</I>><i> library: +</I>><i> The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards +</I>><i> compatible beyond versions 6. This means that you may need to re-generate +</I>><i> your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Regards to all +</I>><i> Daniel. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#433">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#433">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#433">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#433">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aa1f0d9a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000433.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000435.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1> + <B>Vincent Caron</B> + <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net" + TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:43:05 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#434">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#434">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#434">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#434">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Valerio Santinelli wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL, +</I>><i> except those at Nevrax themselves? +</I> +><i>From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in +</I>the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and +crossp-platform development. + +The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs. +However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life... +For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a +bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting +the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should +also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game +development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know +this is not easy. + +NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application +framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will +surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could +also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about +NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from +a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job +would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful +audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract +and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea +indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile +NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :) +'NeL-sdk', ready to code ... + +Enough said, let's checkout that CVS ! + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#434">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#434">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#434">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#434">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..74ff9c1d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html @@ -0,0 +1,124 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000434.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000436.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:01:25 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#435">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#435">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#435">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#435">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I was just drafting a reply to Valerio Santinelli's mail when this one +turned up, so I guess I'm replying to both postings at once. + +First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and +doesn't show what's going on at the moment. Sorry about that. We're just +sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily. +There should be a general improvement at this level soon. + +For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a +loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time soon. +I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if +it doesn't. + +On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features' documents +under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would +be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs +would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome although +our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem +with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an +entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(. +I'll see what I can do. + +Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and less +like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied +together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line +shortly... + +For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :) + +Regards to all +Daniel + +-----Original Message----- +From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of +Vincent Caron +Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:43 PM +To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> +Subject: Re: [Nel] .shape file format change + + +Valerio Santinelli wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on +</I>NeL, +><i> except those at Nevrax themselves? +</I> +><i>From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in +</I>the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and +crossp-platform development. + +The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs. +However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life... +For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a +bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting +the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should +also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game +development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know +this is not easy. + +NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application +framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will +surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could +also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about +NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from +a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job +would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful +audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract +and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea +indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile +NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :) +'NeL-sdk', ready to code ... + +Enough said, let's checkout that CVS ! +_______________________________________________ +Nel mailing list +<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#435">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#435">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#435">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#435">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2e0366a1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html @@ -0,0 +1,121 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] .shape file format change</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000435.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000437.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] .shape file format change</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] .shape file format change">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:41:58 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#436">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#436">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#436">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#436">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>----- Original Message ----- +From: "Daniel Miller" <<A HREF="mailto:miller@nevrax.com">miller@nevrax.com</A>> +Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:01 PM + +><i> First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and +</I>><i> doesn't show what's going on at the moment. Sorry about that. We're just +</I>><i> sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily. +</I>><i> There should be a general improvement at this level soon. +</I> +I spoke to Lecroart about this point. I think that keeping the site up to +date at least once a week wouldn't require a great effort. I'm not asking +you to report on the news page every single change that happens upon the +codebase. Just some generic news about what's going on in order to know that +the project is still alive. + +><i> For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a +</I>><i> loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time +</I>soon. +><i> I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if +</I>><i> it doesn't. +</I> +The roadmap you posted last week has been greatly appreciated on my part. :) +I hope that you can keep sending those once every one or two weeks ;) + +><i> On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features' +</I>documents +><i> under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would +</I>><i> be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs +</I>><i> would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome +</I>although +><i> our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem +</I>><i> with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an +</I>><i> entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(. +</I>><i> I'll see what I can do. +</I> +I've just looked at the new docs. I'm going to print them all and read them +with ease later on during those lonely nights :) + +I'm not going to ask you to write a "how to design and build a MMORPG" book. +That's out of our scope. If I'm evaluating NeL, it's because I am already +designing an MMORPG and I'm evaluating a framework that would reduce the +efforts needed to code all the game from grounds up. +The kind of documentation that I'm looking for in the future is something +that gives an overview of how the pieces of the NeL framework are tied +together, and then, some more indeep documentation about how to build a new +3D entity, how to make a connection to the server and all those things that +explain what objects should be used and which method should be called to +accomplish the main operations. + +><i> Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and +</I>less +><i> like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied +</I>><i> together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line +</I>><i> shortly... +</I> +I'm not pressing you to make a new Snowballs in no time. You've got all the +time you need (I know that I have no influence over this, anyway :)) +I just wish that the new Snowballs will show how to write a basic server and +a basic client, and how to code the main functions needed to make them both +run with each other. That's enough to get started with coding upon NeL. + +><i> For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :) +</I> +I agree on this one. A binary SDK would save a lot of compiling-time which +is mainly unneeded. + +Having an offline version of the code documentation without going over the +doxygen compilation time (which took a hour or maybe more on my Athlon) +would also be useful once the code is in a fairly stable condition. + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A> + + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#436">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#436">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#436">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#436">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..86ced898 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000436.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000438.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</H1> + <B>Vincent Caron</B> + <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net" + TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:39:59 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#437">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#437">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#437">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#437">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Slight troubles : + +- bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with +'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working) + +- stuck here : + +make[4]: Entering directory `/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl' +c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include -O3 +-I/home/zerodeux/code/pngl/STLport-0619/stlport -I./src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT +-I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/driver_opengl.pp -c driver_opengl.cpp -fPIC -DPIC -o +.libs/driver_opengl.lo +In file included from driver_opengl.cpp:48: +driver_opengl.h:51: 3d/driver.h: No such file or directory +driver_opengl.h:52: 3d/material.h: No such file or directory +driver_opengl.h:53: 3d/shader.h: No such file or directory +driver_opengl.h:54: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory +driver_opengl.cpp:50: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory +driver_opengl.cpp:51: 3d/light.h: No such file or directory +driver_opengl.cpp:52: 3d/primitive_block.h: No such file or directory + +The "-I./src" should be "-I../../../../src" ... + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#437">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#437">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#437">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#437">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3792a1ae --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000437.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000439.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:23:11 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#438">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#438">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#438">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#438">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello Vincent, + + +Vincent Caron wrote: +><i> Slight troubles : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with +</I>><i> 'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working) +</I> +This afternoon, i commited a new bootstrap which do the touvh is the ChangeLog +is missing ... so no more annoying complain from automake :-) + +><i> - stuck here : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The "-I./src" should be "-I../../../../src" ... +</I> +I tried to setup that in the configure.in file and its works properly when +using VPATH to compile NeL (thing that do do at nevrax to be able to have a +debug and a release version of NeL in the same time and based on the same +source). But that doesn't work in a "normal" compilation setup :-( + +I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly +i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ... + + +Cedric. + + +PS: The external CVS will updated tonigth ... + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#438">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#438">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#438">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#438">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000439.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000439.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c770776f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000439.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000438.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000440.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</H1> + <B>Vincent Caron</B> + <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net" + TITLE="[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:35:24 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#439">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#439">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#439">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#439">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Cedric Valignat wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly +</I>><i> i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ... +</I> +No pb, I'm just a bug hunter ... :) + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#439">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#439">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#439">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#439">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..52aec682 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] culling and transforms</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000439.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000442.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] culling and transforms</H1> + <B>stephane.craux@voila.fr</B> + <A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr" + TITLE="[Nel] culling and transforms">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:21:16 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#440">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#440">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#440">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#440">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi , +I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and +noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing +the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the +view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly : +I didn't check if this choice was relevant : is it really ? + +Ho , it dosn't seem to me that nel network code provides +peer2peer networked comm : Am I right ? +Isn't it a nice solution to very large multi-user environments ? + +Great job anyway + +Stephane + + + +__________________________________________________ +Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail: +<A HREF="http://mail.voila.fr">http://mail.voila.fr</A> + + + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#440">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#440">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#440">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#440">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000441.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000441.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a7a4b9ff --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000441.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40ens-lyon.fr"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000431.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000432.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Yann Morvan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40ens-lyon.fr" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:57:00 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#441">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#441">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#441">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#441">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hullo, +I've been following the development of NEL for +some time, I haven't been contributing due to lack +of spare time, but I wanted to congratulate the +Nel team for their idea and work. + +However, I have one major concern with the licence mecanism. +Indeed, your idea is that what the people will pay for in +games based upon Nel is content and not code. Saying this, you +implicitly state that content and code are completely distinct things. +It is true for the most part (graphics, sounds, AI scripts, background, +plots etc), +but I can't convince myself that it applies to the rules of the game, +for I can't help to think that for efficiency matters they should be +hardcoded in the different services. (The reason being that because of +their level of abstraction, using a scripting mechanism would be terribly +painful and would require a design of the services architecture allowing +for total flexibility). + +I played Ultima Online for 3 years, I read the rantings of lum the mad +daily, I read the dev boards of currently in development MMORPGs, I'm +aware of the specificities of the "big three" and all this leads +me to the conclusion that the rules (i.e. economy system, combat system, +advancement system etc) are a part of the content at least as important +as the rest regarding a game's interest (I wouldn't be willing to +create a MMORPG if I wasn't utterly frustrated by the current trends +in those games). + +Therefore, while I totaly agree that any improvment +or further development of Nel's features should be shared, I'd +like you to reassure me about the protection of one's rule system +in your design philosophy. + +Sorry for this long mail and for reviving this probably old and well +debated issue :) + + Yann + + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#441">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#441">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#441">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#441">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8aea0e1e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000442.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000444.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> + <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:25:55 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#443">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#443">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#443">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#443">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> Then you take the GPL game rules on the other side of the API, delete +</I>><i> them, +</I>><i> and write your totally new rules, using only the API. Tah da, they are +</I>><i> yours, and you don't have to release your code to anyone. The game +</I>><i> rules +</I>><i> are a separate binary (library, .o file) just like the game data. Use +</I>><i> dynamically linked libraries if you want more separation. (But I'm +</I>><i> pretty +</I>><i> sure that when compiling proprietary apps (see below) under GNU/Linux, +</I>><i> at +</I>><i> least some GPL code gets bound directly in. Also, the concept of +</I>><i> "contamination" my apply, but hey, we are talking a GAME here. Do you +</I>><i> really think anyone is going to bother suing you? Unlikely I think. ) +</I> +You are totally wrong... +Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License... + +What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :) +So you have to publish your source under GPL. + +And yes you will be sued... you are using the work of thousand of people and you +can't share a few stupid lines of code!?!?!?!... + +><i> This is the same as developing proprietary apps on GNU/Linux. GNU/Linux +</I>><i> provides a public, GPL'd API, but the app you write that interfaces to +</I>><i> that API is totally your own. +</I> +You are wrong again... +><i>From what I understood by a mail from FSF, the only way you have to skip GPL is: +</I>1) Get a License from Nel. +2) Code the whole client under a different license. Unless the Net protocol is +propietary... that I think it is not the case. + + +><i> (I'm pretty sure that when compiling proprietary apps under GNU/Linux, +</I>><i> at +</I>><i> least some GPL code gets bound directly in, though this doesn't seem to +</I>><i> bother anyone. Also, the concept of "contamination" may apply, but hey, +</I>><i> we +</I>><i> are talking a GAME here. Do you really think anyone is going to bother +</I>><i> suing you for GPL license violation? Unlikely I think, unless you +</I>><i> really do +</I>><i> overtly violate the license. ) +</I> +No, it is not the same... Please ask a lawyer about it, he will explain it more +clearly that I can. + +IMO if someone violate even a bit the license i set, I will sue him. + +Regards. + + Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin + +nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba +Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna + + -- Echelon must die -- + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#443">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#443">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#443">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#443">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000444.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000444.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..002ced2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000444.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000443.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000449.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Yann Morvan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:59:51 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#444">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#444">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#444">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#444">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Well, while explaining his mistakes to Brenden, +you didn't adress my point, which is this: +Though EQ has better graphics and better written +network code than UO, I preffer UO because of its rules, +which yet are hardcoded. + +If it is not possible for me to use Nel +(and share the technical improvments I may +make) without being able to protect my set of game +rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel +library, being specific to my game), then you reduce +content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer +service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game +for any gamer with an ounce of taste. + +So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should +give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that +I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of +the library). + + Yann + +P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however, +in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules - +the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater +company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure +of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing +power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive +for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their +mere initial wealth. + + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#444">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#444">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#444">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#444">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..62424902 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000449.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000446.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>elijah wright</B> + <A HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">elw@stderr.org</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:26:53 -0400 (EDT)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#445">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#445">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#445">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#445">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> You are totally wrong... +</I>><i> Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :) +</I>><i> So you have to publish your source under GPL. +</I> +incorrect. you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed +libraries. library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do +not constitute "extending" GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as +it is intended to be used. + +LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team +could countenance dual-licensing any such "rules API" and releasing +parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses. + +elijah + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#445">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#445">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#445">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#445">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000446.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000446.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..39beb40a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000446.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Game Rules</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:jcosby%40gscyclone.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000445.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000448.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Game Rules</H1> + <B>John Cosby</B> + <A HREF="mailto:jcosby%40gscyclone.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">jcosby@gscyclone.com</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:31:17 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#446">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#446">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#446">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#446">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here. + +In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of a +game cannot be copyrighted. Specific presentation, game boards, pieces, +etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define gameplay +cannot. + +This leads to an interesting notion when looking at making a game's source +code public. There is no legal protection for the rules themselves - the +graphics, user interface, etc. may be protected, though. + +In this fashion, Nel seems to have a business model that will work, in that +they will be charging to play on their servers using their bandwidth. If +the rules of the game are defined and implemented in source code, then those +rules may be taken and adapted or reused. If the rules of the game are +implemented in libraries using a public API, then those may be "protected" +in so far as the original source and documentation is not available, +although anyone who wants to reverse-engineer (on the basis of behavior, +given the licenses attached to EQ and UO) can come up with their own +implementation of what they believe the game rules to be. + +All because I wanted to reimplement a game Prodigy let die, years and years +ago.... + + + + +</pre> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#446">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#446">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#446">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#446">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000447.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000447.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11a67731 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000447.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000450.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000451.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>stephane.craux@voila.fr</B> + <A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:36:52 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#447">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#447">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#447">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#447">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should +</I>><i> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that +</I>><i> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of +</I>><i> the library). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yann +</I>><i> +</I>><i> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however, +</I>><i> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules - +</I>><i> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater +</I>><i> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure +</I>><i> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing +</I>><i> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive +</I>><i> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their +</I>><i> mere initial wealth. +</I> +I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one +of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century . + +Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is concerned, +and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software is +the great thing : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the ever +coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... +those which don't provide source code . + +That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for individuals : +releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get insights +about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source providers . + +Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to understand +the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it) +So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor entities +- as far as software production is concerned - +I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global leverage tendance . + +The company I work for prohibits the reuse of GPL code and tends to minimize +the usage of LGPL ed source code : no need to ask a lawyer why , everybody +will laugh at u if u ask and I think the boss is right here . +Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable company +protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note +that I'm in no way related to MS . +Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism died +out of realism ? + +Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' +methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever thought +that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable way of +thinking and only fools rush in . + + +I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the GPL concept , +(I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) , but +since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL detractors . +Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will . + +I realize i might be removed from the list after that , +but I don't think it will happen . + +Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't be there if not) + +Stephane Craux +<A HREF="mailto:Stephane.Craux@voila.fr">Stephane.Craux@voila.fr</A> +__________________________________________________ +Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail: +<A HREF="http://mail.voila.fr">http://mail.voila.fr</A> + + + + +</pre> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#447">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#447">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#447">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#447">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000448.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000448.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7f7134fb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000448.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Game Rules</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000446.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000450.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Game Rules</H1> + <B>Yann Morvan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu" + TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:42:11 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#448">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#448">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#448">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#448">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Ok John, thanks for your answer, I think +I have a more realist vision now: +rules are too abstract to be protected in themselves +and their implementation will be reverse-engineered +if they are popular. +So all you have to do is give yourself the means to ensure that your +game will be good enough to discourage people from trying to steal +your players. Sounds like the hard, but honest way ... + +And Stephane, I don't think that free software is a joke, +you know I even think that K. Marx had good ideas ...:) + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#448">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#448">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#448">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#448">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000449.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000449.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f5a08082 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000449.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000444.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000445.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> + <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:54:03 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#449">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#449">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#449">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#449">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> If it is not possible for me to use Nel +</I>><i> (and share the technical improvments I may +</I>><i> make) without being able to protect my set of game +</I>><i> rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel +</I>><i> library, being specific to my game), then you reduce +</I>><i> content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer +</I>><i> service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game +</I>><i> for any gamer with an ounce of taste. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should +</I>><i> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that +</I>><i> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of +</I>><i> the library). +</I> +I am in no way related to Nel. +This is just my opinion as contributor of Open Source. + +But I think that you should fix the ethical conflict between using "others" GPL +code and asking them to protect "your" right for not sharing yours. :-/ + +><i> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however, +</I>><i> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules - +</I>><i> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater +</I>><i> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure +</I>><i> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing +</I>><i> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive +</I>><i> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their +</I>><i> mere initial wealth. +</I> +Once a american president, perhaps Abraham Lincon, told that a nation that give +away freedom to get security deserver nor freedom neither security. + +So this apply to Open Source, I think that freedom is soooo good that it worth +to risk to that to happen. And imagine that the case you told happen... you +would have shown world how good is Open Source that a Lame enterprise has decide +to use your code to make their game. + +Regards. + +[ Above is just my opinion, I don't ask you to understand it, not to agree with +me... ] + + + Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin + +nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba +Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna + + -- Echelon must die -- + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#449">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#449">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#449">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#449">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000450.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000450.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1f024a3b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000450.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Game Rules</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000448.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000447.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Game Rules</H1> + <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> + <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es" + TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:27:03 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#450">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#450">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#450">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#450">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Mensaje citado por: John Cosby <<A HREF="mailto:jcosby@gscyclone.com">jcosby@gscyclone.com</A>>: + +><i> I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of +</I>><i> a +</I>><i> game cannot be copyrighted. Specific presentation, game boards, pieces, +</I>><i> etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define +</I>><i> gameplay +</I>><i> cannot. +</I> +I am not a lawer... But you say "the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted." +Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k? +So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic, +they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :) + +I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you +can copy right D&D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy +right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :) + +Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to +patent it to. :-( + + + Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin + +nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba +Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna + + -- Echelon must die -- + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#450">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#450">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#450">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#450">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000451.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000451.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..756a76f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000451.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000447.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000452.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Michael Warnock</B> + <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:45:21 -0700</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#451">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#451">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#451">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#451">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of nel- commercial games. In addition to selling our content and service, we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider scripture). First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification language in +their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at all. But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should we release the server side code? + +michael warnock +InOrbit Entertainment + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#451">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#451">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#451">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#451">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000452.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000452.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..752c22ea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000452.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000451.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000453.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> + <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:51:13 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#452">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#452">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#452">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#452">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>>: + +><i> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of +</I>><i> nel- commercial games. In addition to selling our content and service, +</I>><i> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why +</I>><i> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider +</I>><i> scripture). First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification +</I>><i> language in +</I>><i> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at +</I>><i> all. But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding +</I>><i> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite +</I>><i> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should +</I>><i> we release the server side code? +</I> +I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so +hard working on such a good project. + +IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public +and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer. + +Regards, + Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin + +nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba +Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna + + -- Echelon must die -- + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#452">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#452">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#452">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#452">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000453.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000453.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ec846b9b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000453.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000452.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Yann Morvan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:53:33 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#453">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#453">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#453">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#453">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Well, I think that the GPL, as opposed to LGPL, +is much more strict than you think, I've taken a few minutes +to go and read it thoroughly and it is quite clear. +Besides, its very purpose is to lay legal grounds to defend +the Free Software notion, so I think it is to be taken seriously, +and in my opinion, it is a good thing. +As for your scripting thing, I think we can devide rules in two +categories: +-global ones ("when a character dies, he returns to his binding point") +-detailed ones ("the damage formula for the needle gun is +log3(sqrt(z)-8x)") + +Like john said, the second ones will be reverse engineered (see the "big +three", whereas the first ones are so general that on one hand the idea of +a patent on them is ridiculous (though I think some fool as tried to +patent the whole MMOG or even PW concept) and on the other hand their +scripting is difficult. + +So there is no point at protecting your rules. + + Yann + + + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#453">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#453">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#453">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#453">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11d2baab --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Author</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-June Archives by Author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 37<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="421"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="428"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="424"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="434"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="437"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="439"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="446"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="423"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="429"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="422"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="425"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="430"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="432"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="435"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="441"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="444"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="448"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="453"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="417"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="420"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="433"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="436"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="431"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="442"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="418"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="419"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="426"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="427"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="438"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="451"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="440"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="447"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="445"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="443"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="449"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="450"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="452"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 01:09:01 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e9e4f69f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Date</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-June Archives by Date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 37<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="417"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="418"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="419"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="420"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="421"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="422"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="423"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="424"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="425"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="426"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="427"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="428"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="429"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="430"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="431"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="432"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="433"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="434"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="435"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="436"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="437"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="438"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="439"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="440"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="441"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="442"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="443"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="444"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="445"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="446"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="447"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="448"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="449"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="450"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="451"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="452"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="453"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 01:09:01 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9e020a7f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Thread</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-June Archives by Thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 37<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 00992246537- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1327"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00992246537-00992269732- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1328"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00992246537-00992269732-00992424394- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1330"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00992420505- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="1329"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--0 00992522874- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1331"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00992522874-00992622916- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1333"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00992616981- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1332"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--0 00992708948- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="1334"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I> +<!--0 00992856943- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1335"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--0 00993054122- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1336"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993054122-00993054760- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1337"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--1 00993054122-00993120515- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1338"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993054122-00993120515-00993121807- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1339"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993138457- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1340"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993138457-00993141210- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1341"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<!--1 00993138457-00993920220- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1351"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00993654528- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1342"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993654528-00993707725- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1343"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1344"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1345"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285-00993735718- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1346"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993742799- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1347"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993742799-00993828191- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1348"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993742799-00993828191-00993828924- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1349"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993892876- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1350"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<!--0 00993922470- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1352"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993922470-00993925555- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1353"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1354"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591-00993934443- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1359"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +</UL> +<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993929213- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1355"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993933077- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1356"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993933077-00993933731- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1358"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--1 00993933077-00993936423- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1360"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00993933412- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1357"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<!--0 00993937521- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1361"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993937521-00993937873- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1362"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<!--1 00993937521-00993938013- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1363"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 01:09:01 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..05ec7bbe --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Subject</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-June Archives by Subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 37<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="432"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="433"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="434"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="435"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="436"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="422"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="437"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="438"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="439"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="441"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="442"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="443"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="444"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="445"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="447"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="449"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="451"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="452"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="453"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="440"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="446"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="448"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="450"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="421"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="423"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="419"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="426"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="427"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="428"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="429"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="424"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="425"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="430"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="431"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="417"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="418"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="420"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 01:09:01 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9e020a7f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-June Archive by Thread</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-June Archives by Thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 37<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 00992246537- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000417.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1327"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00992246537-00992269732- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000418.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1328"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00992246537-00992269732-00992424394- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000420.html">[Nel] Snowball for Win32</A> <A NAME="1330"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00992420505- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000419.html">[Nel] Itsalive is dead</A> <A NAME="1329"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--0 00992522874- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000421.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1331"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00992522874-00992622916- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000423.html">[Nel] Hello and a Question</A> <A NAME="1333"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00992616981- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000422.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1332"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--0 00992708948- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000424.html">[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #106 - 2 msgs</A> <A NAME="1334"></A><I>Brandon Barker</I> +<!--0 00992856943- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000425.html">[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg</A> <A NAME="1335"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--0 00993054122- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000426.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1336"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993054122-00993054760- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000427.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1337"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--1 00993054122-00993120515- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000428.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1338"></A><I>Alfred</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993054122-00993120515-00993121807- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000429.html">[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1339"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993138457- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000430.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1340"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993138457-00993141210- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000431.html">[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...</A> <A NAME="1341"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<!--1 00993138457-00993920220- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000441.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1351"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00993654528- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000432.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1342"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993654528-00993707725- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000433.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1343"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000434.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1344"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000435.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1345"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--3 00993654528-00993707725-00993728585-00993733285-00993735718- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000436.html">[Nel] .shape file format change</A> <A NAME="1346"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993742799- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000437.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1347"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993742799-00993828191- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000438.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1348"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993742799-00993828191-00993828924- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000439.html">[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS</A> <A NAME="1349"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993892876- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000440.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1350"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<!--0 00993922470- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000442.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1352"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993922470-00993925555- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000443.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1353"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000444.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1354"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00993922470-00993925555-00993927591-00993934443- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000449.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1359"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +</UL> +<!--2 00993922470-00993925555-00993929213- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000445.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1355"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993933077- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000446.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1356"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993933077-00993933731- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000448.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1358"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--1 00993933077-00993936423- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000450.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1360"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00993933412- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000447.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1357"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<!--0 00993937521- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000451.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1361"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993937521-00993937873- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000452.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1362"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<!--1 00993937521-00993938013- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000453.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1363"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 01:09:01 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |