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| author | neodarz <neodarz@neodarz.net> | 2018-08-11 20:21:34 +0200 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | neodarz <neodarz@neodarz.net> | 2018-08-11 20:21:34 +0200 |
| commit | 0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2 (patch) | |
| tree | 2568e71a7ccc44ec23b8bb3f0ff97fb6bf2ed709 /pipermail/nel/2001-April | |
| download | nevrax-website-self-hostable-0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2.tar.xz nevrax-website-self-hostable-0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2.zip | |
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26 files changed, 2762 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7fce366d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Subscribe Me</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000393.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Subscribe Me</H1> + <B>Brandon</B> + <A HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Subscribe Me">brandon_425@yahoo.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT)</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#392">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#392">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#392">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#392">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> + + +__________________________________________________ +Do You Yahoo!? +Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. +<A HREF="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A> + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#392">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#392">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#392">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#392">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6edaeeaa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000392.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000394.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</H1> + <B>Brandon</B> + <A HREF="mailto:brandon_425%40yahoo.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net">brandon_425@yahoo.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#393">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#393">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#393">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#393">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Mark, + +I noticed that you had reflexnet.net also as your ISP. I can't +believe they pulled the carpet right out from under us and went +bankrupt. Technology is funny these days. Just like the stock +market. Ouch!!! :) Funny huh? I found a great new ISP, let me +know if you want the info or if you could give me some help +finding a new ISP. + +Thanks, + +Brandon +<A HREF="mailto:brandon_425@yahoo.com">brandon_425@yahoo.com</A> +Home: 503.605.5433 + + +--- <A HREF="mailto:nel-request@nevrax.org">nel-request@nevrax.org</A> wrote: +><i> Welcome to the <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> mailing list! +</I>><i> +</I>><i> To post to this list, send your email to: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> General information about the mailing list is at: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, +</I>><i> switch to +</I>><i> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your +</I>><i> subscription page at: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/options.cgi/nel/brandon_425@yahoo.com">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/options.cgi/nel/brandon_425@yahoo.com</A> +><i> +</I>><i> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a +</I>><i> message to: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel-request@nevrax.org">Nel-request@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the +</I>><i> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You must know your password to change your options (including +</I>><i> changing +</I>><i> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> by09661 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a +</I>><i> monthly +</I>><i> reminder telling you what all your nevrax.org mailing list +</I>><i> passwords +</I>><i> are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options. There is +</I>><i> also a +</I>><i> button on your options page that will email your current +</I>><i> password to +</I>><i> you. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You may also have your password mailed to you automatically +</I>><i> off of the +</I>><i> Web page noted above. +</I> + +__________________________________________________ +Do You Yahoo!? +Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. +<A HREF="http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/">http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/</A> + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#393">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#393">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#393">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#393">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f0770969 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40thatsnice.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000393.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000395.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1> + <B>robert@thatsnice.org</B> + <A HREF="mailto:robert%40thatsnice.org" + TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">robert@thatsnice.org</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:47:53 -0700 (PDT)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#394">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#394">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#394">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#394">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello again Nevrax folks, + +I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod +you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able +to get involved again. + +Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is +collaboration with the community. We're not just here to bug you. :) + +Hope everything's going well. + +Robert + +-- +Robert de Forest "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day; +System Administrator set him on fire and he'll be warm +Got.net for the rest of his life." +<<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>> -- The Cube, forum3000.org + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#394">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#394">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#394">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#394">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fbb8d5f1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000394.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000396.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:52:53 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#395">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#395">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#395">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#395">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello Robert, + +<A HREF="mailto:robert@thatsnice.org">robert@thatsnice.org</A> wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is +</I>><i> collaboration with the community. We're not just here to bug you. :) +</I> +hehe ... i think that we quite aware of that :-) + +We are just meeting some of our own internal Milestones so, as you guess, +we are quite busy at the moment. + +Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning +the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ... + +A new version of Snowball sould be done for the first of May. That new +version will use the new network and 3D implementation of NeL. + +So don't worry, we didn't forget you, it's just that we are very busy. + +Sorry about that ... + + +Cedric. + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#395">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#395">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#395">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#395">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..57c6c651 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000395.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000398.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1> + <B>David Mentre</B> + <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr" + TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A><BR> + <I>10 Apr 2001 09:17:41 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#396">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#396">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#396">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#396">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Cedric Valignat <<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>> writes: + +><i> Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning +</I>><i> the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ... +</I> +About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen? +Automata over kernel threads? + +BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but +did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests? + +d. +-- + <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@inria.fr">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A> + Opinions expressed here are only mine. + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#396">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#396">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#396">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#396">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5a171923 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html @@ -0,0 +1,56 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000398.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000399.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1> + <B>sameh chafik Pro</B> + <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:01:48 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#397">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#397">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#397">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#397">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello Robert + +><i> I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod +</I>><i> you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able +</I>><i> to get involved again. +</I> +What kind of project you are working on ? + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#397">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#397">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#397">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#397">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b9b5a28a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000396.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000397.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:35:06 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#398">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#398">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#398">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#398">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>According to David Mentre: +><i> Cedric Valignat <<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>> writes: +</I>><i> > Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning +</I>><i> > the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen? +</I>><i> Automata over kernel threads? +</I> +We're finishing the design docs, which will explain exactly how we're +going to work. Can't explain further yet. You'll have to wait a little bit +more for these to appear on the web/CVS. + +><i> BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but +</I>><i> did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests? +</I> +We haven't any formal test system for elementary modules. There are some +self-contained examples in the nel/samples directory that show how some +modules work, and which could easily be turned into testbeds to check +functionality. + +If you think you can find better examples, or put added examples that +can serve as tests at the same time, your contribution will be well +appreciated. + +-- +Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A> + +Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go! + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#398">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#398">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#398">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#398">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000399.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000399.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..639b02a5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000399.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:robert%40thatsnice.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000397.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000400.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</H1> + <B>robert@thatsnice.org</B> + <A HREF="mailto:robert%40thatsnice.org" + TITLE="[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?">robert@thatsnice.org</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#399">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#399">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#399">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#399">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] +><i> Hello Robert +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod +</I>><i> > you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able +</I>><i> > to get involved again. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What kind of project you are working on ? +</I> +Why a 3d MUD, of course. + +I started out on a MOO, then got into ColdMUD, which then begat this +project: + +coldstore.sourceforge.net + +Which is just the back-end, and is embrionic still. + +My goal is to replace all the MMORPGs with a decentralized free +alternative. Of course, this would compete with Nevrax, but that will +just encourage them to be better. :) + +I think Nevrax has the best philosophical approach to this problem of +any commercial effort, and I applaud them. However, since I don't +work there, and I still want to work on these problems, I work for +free. + +The particular subject I wish to tackle with an MMORPG is the social +experimentation subject. This has been tried before in text-based +adventures (LambdaMOO and its descendents), but never on a large +enough scale or with new technology. + +I want to see if we can learn something as a culture by creating a +super dynamic world with maximum "player" input into the universe and +maybe solve some of our differences inside that world. Then maybe we +can carry those lessons to the outside world. + +My experiment would NOT be a game. It would also not be a pure +simulation because we just don't have that technology yet, either in +input and output or in resources to process or computer it. It would +be a rough analogy of life, and would try to put everyone at roughly +the same level of world interaction, within reason. It would be based +heavily on life as we know it, but with an accelerated time scale. + +I try not to think too much about whether I actually expect this to +ever happen or be popular. :) + +Thanks for asking! + +Robert + +-- +Robert de Forest "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day; +System Administrator set him on fire and he'll be warm +Got.net for the rest of his life." +<<A HREF="mailto:robert@got.net">robert@got.net</A>> -- The Cube, forum3000.org + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#399">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#399">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#399">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#399">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000400.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000400.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2121389f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000400.html @@ -0,0 +1,325 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] proposed control changes</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:derikson%40montana.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000399.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000401.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] proposed control changes</H1> + <B>Dan Erikson</B> + <A HREF="mailto:derikson%40montana.com" + TITLE="[Nel] proposed control changes">derikson@montana.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:49:18 -0600</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#400">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#400">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#400">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#400">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi all, this is kind of long, sorry. I had some thoughts that I'd like to +get some feedback on, and some code that you might find useful. + +I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so +that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window +and move the mouse in order to move the view around. This is a change +from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the +application. This allows one to use other applications while the game +is running. I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at +the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons. It'll also alow +for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of +the screen. The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on +windows. It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone +would test it. + +I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already +in use +for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would +work better: + +* Left mouse button to move the view around +* Right mouse button to move forward +* Space button to throw a snowball +* Enter button to enter chat mode + After text is typed and enter is pressed, return from chat mode +* Mousewheel forward to zoom in +* Mousewheel backwards to zoom out +* Left button turns the view left normally +* If control+left or left_mouse+left, then strafe left +* Right button turns the view right normally +* If control+right or left_mouse+right, then strafe right + +The normal mode/chat mode allows us to use the keys for functionality rather +than F1-F12, which is a little harder to remember than something like +'r' for +toggle radar. Also, there are a limited number of function buttons, so I +think having access to all the other keys would allow good future expansion. + +The changes to the mouse buttons allows one to move around the world using +only the mouse. + +It would also be nice to have the ability to customize these keys, but +that's +something for a little later. + +If anyone has any comments about this stuff, I'd love to hear them. + +Patch to use right mouse button to move the heading around: + +Index: move_listener.cpp +=================================================================== +RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.cpp,v +retrieving revision 1.23 +diff -c -r1.23 move_listener.cpp +*** move_listener.cpp 2001/04/10 10:20:48 1.23 +--- move_listener.cpp 2001/04/13 02:21:30 +*************** +*** 54,63 **** + \****************************************************************/ + CMoveListener::CMoveListener() + { +! _MouseFree = false; + +- _CursorInit = false; +- + _Width = 0; + _Height = 0; + +--- 54,61 ---- + \****************************************************************/ + CMoveListener::CMoveListener() + { +! _MouseFree = true; + + _Width = 0; + _Height = 0; + +*************** +*** 184,190 **** + \****************************************************************/ + void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent& event) + { +! static const float eps = 0.001f; + + // Rotation + if (event==EventMouseMoveId) +--- 182,188 ---- + \****************************************************************/ + void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent& event) + { +! static const float eps = 0.002f; + + // Rotation + if (event==EventMouseMoveId) +*************** +*** 196,240 **** + + if(!_MouseFree) + { +! if(_CursorInit) + { +! float difx = 0.5f-mouseEvent->X; +! float dify = -(0.5f-mouseEvent->Y); +! if( (float)fabs(difx) > eps || (float)fabs(dify) > eps) + { +! if ( (float)fabs(difx) > eps) +! { +! LocalArea->User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) ); + } +! if ( (float)fabs(dify) > eps) +! { +! LocalArea->User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify); +! if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch>(float)Pi/2) +! { +! LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2; +! } +! if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch<-(float)Pi/2) +! { +! LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2; +! } + } +- _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(0.5,0.5); + } + } +- else +- { +- _CursorInit = true; +- _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(0.5,0.5); +- } + } + } + + + +- // Shoot with left mouse button + if ( event==EventMouseDownId) + { + CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event; + if(mouseEvent->Button==leftButton && CanShot) + { + if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) && ClientSocket->connected() ) +--- 194,230 ---- + + if(!_MouseFree) + { +! float difx = _MouseLockX-mouseEvent->X; +! float dify = -(_MouseLockY-mouseEvent->Y); +! if( (float)fabs(difx) > eps || (float)fabs(dify) > eps) + { +! if ( (float)fabs(difx) > eps) +! { +! LocalArea->User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) ); +! } +! if ( (float)fabs(dify) > eps) + { +! LocalArea->User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify); +! if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch>(float)Pi/2) +! { +! LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2; + } +! if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch<-(float)Pi/2) +! { +! LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2; + } + } ++ _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(_MouseLockX,_MouseLockY); + } + } + } + + + + if ( event==EventMouseDownId) + { + CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event; ++ // Shoot with left mouse button + if(mouseEvent->Button==leftButton && CanShot) + { + if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) && ClientSocket->connected() ) +*************** +*** 249,254 **** +--- 239,259 ---- + } + } + } ++ if(mouseEvent->Button==rightButton && _MouseFree) ++ { ++ _MouseLockX = mouseEvent->X; ++ _MouseLockY = mouseEvent->Y; ++ changeControlMode(); ++ } ++ } ++ ++ if(event==EventMouseUpId) ++ { ++ CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event; ++ if(mouseEvent->Button==rightButton && !_MouseFree) ++ { ++ changeControlMode(); ++ } + } + } + +*************** +*** 260,265 **** +--- 265,271 ---- + { + server.addListener (EventMouseMoveId, this); + server.addListener (EventMouseDownId, this); ++ server.addListener (EventMouseUpId, this); + } + + +*************** +*** 270,274 **** +--- 276,281 ---- + { + server.removeListener (EventMouseMoveId, this); + server.removeListener (EventMouseDownId, this); ++ server.removeListener (EventMouseUpId, this); + } + +Index: move_listener.h +=================================================================== +RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.h,v +retrieving revision 1.15 +diff -c -r1.15 move_listener.h +*** move_listener.h 2001/03/05 09:39:44 1.15 +--- move_listener.h 2001/04/13 02:21:30 +*************** +*** 119,127 **** + /// Internal use + virtual void operator()(const NLMISC::CEvent& event); + +- /// true if first setMousePos done +- bool _CursorInit; +- + CScene * _Scene; + + /// screen width +--- 119,124 ---- +*************** +*** 155,160 **** +--- 152,160 ---- + float _MouseY; + + bool _Shot; ++ ++ float _MouseLockX; ++ float _MouseLockY; + }; + + +Index: client.cpp +=================================================================== +RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/client.cpp,v +retrieving revision 1.177 +diff -c -r1.177 client.cpp +*** client.cpp 2001/04/12 17:06:42 1.177 +--- client.cpp 2001/04/13 02:22:13 +*************** +*** 1880,1893 **** + LocalArea->setEntityMovedCallback( moveEntityInstance ); + LocalArea->setEntityRemovedCallback( deleteEntityInstance ); + +- // hide mouse cursor +- CNELU::Driver->showCursor(false); +- #ifdef NL_RELEASE +- CNELU::Driver->setCapture(true); +- #endif +- +- +- + // Load meshes + /* + vector<string>::iterator itshp; +--- 1880,1885 ---- + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#400">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#400">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#400">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#400">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5d6ea3bb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] proposed control changes</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000400.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000402.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] proposed control changes</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] proposed control changes">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:41:25 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#401">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#401">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#401">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#401">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi, + +Dan Erikson wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so +</I>><i> that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window +</I>><i> and move the mouse in order to move the view around. This is a change +</I>><i> from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the +</I>><i> application. This allows one to use other applications while the game +</I>><i> is running. I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at +</I>><i> the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons. It'll also alow +</I>><i> for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of +</I>><i> the screen. The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on +</I>><i> windows. It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone +</I>><i> would test it. +</I> +Nice :-) + +I'm going to take a look on that next week and i will test it on windows +before to integrate the patch. I will keep you inform of the results :-) + +><i> I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already +</I>><i> in use +</I>><i> for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would +</I>><i> work better: +</I>><i> [...] +</I> +The control configuration is a very personal thing, we choose a quite common +way to configure the moves control ... but it wiil be nice to be able to +easly configure them :-) + +I do agree with you on the Function keys and the ability to be able to use +the other keys of the keyboard ... migth be nice to have ;-) + + +Thanks for your help, + +Cedric. + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#401">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#401">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#401">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#401">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..feee946b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html @@ -0,0 +1,123 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000401.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000403.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:34:53 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#402">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#402">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#402">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#402">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>While waiting for the whole load, here's a quick and short document. Look +at it, and critique your hearts out... + +Client server connect + +This document describes quickly the connection process of a client to a world +running a NeL-based system. + +Abbreviations +------------- + +LS: The login service (one overall) +WS: The welcome service (one for each world) +FES: The front-end service (N per world) + +Steps +----- + +1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied + IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP + resolution. + + Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS + spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client. + However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location. + +2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities. + +3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all + available worlds according to account information and current system + settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that + world. + + Note: DNS is not used in that step. + +4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address + of its world service to the LS. + +5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection + desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the + incoming connection. + + Note: The cookie includes the client's IP, as seen by the LS (to avoid + address translation problems) for validation. + +6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie + to the FES. + +7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS. + +8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and + indicates the IP/port of the selected FES. + +9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the + IP/port of the selected FES. + +10: The client disconnects from the LS. + +11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES. + +12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES. + +13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie. + +Side notes +---------- + +Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS, +using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two +physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message +serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state, +name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS +to avoid the occasional pirate server registration. + +-- +Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A> + +Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go! + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#402">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#402">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#402">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#402">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..50a2b06f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000402.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000407.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1> + <B>Thierry Mallard</B> + <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com" + TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:59:43 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#403">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#403">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#403">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#403">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote: +><i> Steps +</I>><i> ----- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied +</I>><i> IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP +</I>><i> resolution. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS +</I>><i> spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client. +</I>><i> However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location. +</I> +Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ? +(dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...) + +><i> 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities. +</I> +In plaintext ? + +><i> 3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all +</I>><i> available worlds according to account information and current system +</I>><i> settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that +</I>><i> world. +</I> +Maybe the use of challenges would be more secure, but i'm not a specialist in +this matter :-( + +><i> 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address +</I>><i> of its world service to the LS. +</I> +Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ? +(then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS) + +><i> [...] +</I>><i> 10: The client disconnects from the LS. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES. +</I> +I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS +_after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes +wrong, the client could goto 4 directly. + + +Best regards, + +-- +Thierry Mallard | <A HREF="http://vawis.net">http://vawis.net</A> +GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | <A HREF="http://erlang-fr.org">http://erlang-fr.org</A> (new) +key 0xA3D021CB | <A HREF="http://worldforge.org">http://worldforge.org</A> + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#403">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#403">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#403">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#403">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000404.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000404.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cde29a46 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000404.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000407.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000405.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1> + <B>Thierry Mallard</B> + <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com" + TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:33:31 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#404">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#404">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#404">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#404">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote: +><i> Steps +</I>><i> ----- +</I>><i> [...] +</I>><i> 5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection +</I>><i> desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the +</I>><i> incoming connection. +</I> +The LS <--> WS connection should be studied, perhaps ? +(if it wasn't intended in this document, then let's see that later.. ;-) ) + +[ *err.. ok i just read the end on the original mail, just forget it* ] + +><i> 6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie +</I>><i> to the FES. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS. +</I> +So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ? +-- the balancing being done at network level, not process level -- + +><i> 8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and +</I>><i> indicates the IP/port of the selected FES. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the +</I>><i> IP/port of the selected FES. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 10: The client disconnects from the LS. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie. +</I> +IMHO, as said in the other mail, the client should then disconnect from the +LS ; not before. The downside I see in this case would be the extended time of +connection (steps 11 et 13), which will lead to more network load. I don't see +how important that would be. + +><i> Side notes +</I>><i> ---------- +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS, +</I>><i> using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two +</I>><i> physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message +</I>><i> serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state, +</I>><i> name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS +</I>><i> to avoid the occasional pirate server registration. +</I> +ok, so i should have read the whole document before arguing ;-)) + +Hope this helps.. + +-- +Thierry Mallard | <A HREF="http://vawis.net">http://vawis.net</A> +GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | <A HREF="http://erlang-fr.org">http://erlang-fr.org</A> (new) +key 0xA3D021CB | <A HREF="http://worldforge.org">http://worldforge.org</A> + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#404">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#404">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#404">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#404">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2bd73e60 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] CVS tree changes</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000404.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000408.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] CVS tree changes</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] CVS tree changes">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:58:19 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#405">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#405">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#405">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#405">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello everybody, + +We have made some small changement in the CVS tree about Snowballs : + + - a directory "code/snowballs" was created. This directory contain 2 + subdirectories : "client" & "server". + + - the "code/client" files were moved to "code/snowballs/client". + + - the "code/server/moves_service" was moved to "code/snowballs/server/moves_service". + + +It ws a little mess and we had to clen it up, so as the client directory was +*only* the snowballs client and the mose_service was used only for running +a snowballs shard we decided to move these diretories in a more appropriate +directory. + +Some of the txt file were not corrected yet so you migth find them quite +innacurate ... that will be fixed tomorow ... + +Otherwise, the "code/server" directory will be renamed to "code/nelns" +(standing for NeL Network Service) and will contain our services +to run a generic shard, services that aren't part of the games +services but are necessary to run a shard ... + + +Have fune :-) + + +Cedric. + + +</pre> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#405">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#405">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#405">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#405">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dbfb28e8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000410.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000411.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:08 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#406">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#406">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#406">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#406">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello, + +As i told about in my preceding mail, the CVS code/server directory was renamed +to code nelns (standing for NeL Network Services). + +So you will get that new structure from tonigth CVS synchronization ... + + +Have a good time ... + + +Cedric. + + + +</pre> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#406">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#406">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#406">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#406">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000407.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000407.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e39ca9de --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000407.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000403.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000404.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:27:13 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#407">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#407">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#407">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#407">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I'll answer both posts at the same time... + +According to Thierry Mallard: +><i> Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ? +</I>><i> (dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...) +</I> +There are two ways you can find out a server: + +1) Hardcode the IP address (then, you cannot move the server) +2) Use DNS for dynamic IP (then, the hardcoded address is the root of the + DNS tree - which, hopefully, changes even less often than we will) + +You can't specify your "own DNS". Using that is basically the same as +using method 1: you still have to put a server at a static IP that gives +you off the dynamic IP. + +><i> > 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In plaintext ? +</I> +If we assume the link has a crypt method in it, why not. + +Three possible methods for password submission + +1) Plaintext, assuming the connection has a form of crypt in place +2) MD5/crypt password. Spoofable, since: + a) You can capture the MD5/crypt string + b) You have the client source, so can hack it to send the static + crypted password instead of crypting the - unknown - plaintext +3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the + current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first + bytes of the MD5 digest. + +><i> > 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address +</I>><i> > of its world service to the LS. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ? +</I>><i> (then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS) +</I> +Not good. Typically, the client will connect to the world the player has +a character he wants to play today :) + +However, the client may use the IP addresses of the WS to ping them and +figure out which connection is better (when selecting its first world). + +><i> So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ? +</I>><i> -- the balancing being done at network level, not process level -- +</I> +The WS *is* the load balancing mechanism. Since he's aware of all FES +up and running, and knows their load right now, he's best suited to +determine which FES can afford to manage a new character. + +><i> I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS +</I>><i> _after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes +</I>><i> wrong, the client could goto 4 directly. +</I> +Hmmm, that might be good, yes. + +-- +Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A> + +Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go! + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#407">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#407">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#407">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#407">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2ddc5c96 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Status Update?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000405.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000409.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] NeL Status Update?</H1> + <B>EagleEye</B> + <A HREF="mailto:eagleeye%40flashmail.com" + TITLE="[Nel] NeL Status Update?">eagleeye@flashmail.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:10:03 -0500</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#408">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#408">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#408">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#408">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start = +putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such. = +The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works for NeL, and = +we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's = +textures. + +Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed = +documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will = +work with it? + +Thanks, + +Jared Mark + +------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> +<HTML><HEAD> +<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = +charset=3Diso-8859-1"> +<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR> +<STYLE></STYLE> +</HEAD> +<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> +<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My game project has gotten to the point where I am = +ready to=20 +start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and=20 +such.&nbsp; The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works = +for NeL,=20 +and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for = +it's=20 +textures.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS = +plugin,=20 +and&nbsp;detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my = +world, so=20 +NeL will work with it?</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> + +------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060-- + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#408">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#408">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#408">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#408">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2e1cae7e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Status Update?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000408.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000410.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] NeL Status Update?</H1> + <B>Dim Segebart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com" + TITLE="[Nel] NeL Status Update?">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:55:25 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#409">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#409">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#409">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#409">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>E> My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such. The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure +E> works for NeL, and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's textures. + +E> Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work with it? + +As I noted earlier, IMHO the best solution for all of us, will be open +format of NeL's data files and accompanying stuff. In such a case we +will be free to write converters from our favorite 3D tools XYZ to the NeL +format. But I can predict changes in format of NeL files to extend the +current set of features. Just like DWG file format was always closed +to the most of us and was subject of permanent changes, DXF file format was opened to everyone, so I'm +offer not too stick to the current implementation of NeL's binary file +format, but just invent some formal data format which will be the same for NeL as DXF +is for DWG (let's name it NFF - NelFileFormat). In such a case Nevrax team create translator +from NFF to the internal representation and the people outside the +Nevrax create translator from format XYZ to the NFF. With addition of +new features and other format changes Nevrax make changes to the +NFF2INTERNAL and we make changes to the XYZ2NFF As a consequence of +such a decision Nevrax will be free to change internal stuff without +breaking users world's data and users always can store their data in +some intermediate format. Just imagine the situation. Nevrax add new +really cool features to the game and release new internal file format +with new release of engine. What happen with users worlds which are +incompatible with new version ? I think you may guess ;) +But if along with a new version Nevrax will release a new version of +converter NFF2INTERNAL the problem will be solved. This converter takes +care about all internal changes and user's data will be on-line again +within short period of time. + +What's about standard XML as a basement? :) + +-- +Dim Segebart + +PS. May be I'm completely wrong and Nevrax team has a better +solution? + + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#409">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#409">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#409">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#409">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..03c5f96e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] NeL Status Update?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000409.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000406.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] NeL Status Update?</H1> + <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] NeL Status Update?">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:06:03 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#410">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#410">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#410">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#410">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi, + +><i> E> Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed +</I>documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work +with it? + +What you said about the NeL file format makes a lot of sense, and it match +what we planned to do in a near future. + +Actually, i'm going to describe the current data management. + +Today, our export plug-ins generate NeL binary files using the NeL +serialisation system. +The serialisation system is described in the document inserted at the end of +the mail. This document +will be available on the web site in the Doxygen Related Pages during the +next week. + +Here is the URL of another document that describes how to build NeL 3d data +from your 3d editor and export them in NeL binary format: + +<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/3d_data_howto.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/3d_data_howto.html</A> + +--- + +NeL Files and Serialisation + +* Introduction + +This is really quite a difficult subject to write about - so this file is an +introduction which describes the basic features and principles of our +system. + + +* How our files work in NeL + +The NeL files are NOT designed to be man-readable. Interpretation and +generation of file contents is performed by the objects that are to be read +and written using a standardised mechanism. This mechanism was inspired by +the system provided by Java. + +We use the term 'serialisable' to describe a class that can be read from/ +written to a NeL data file. +Counter-intuitive as it may, at first, appear, each 'serialisable' class +supplies a single method that is used for both reading and writing. + +Note that the files are encoded in little-endian and that the NeL library +code deals with conversion of endian-ness for big-endian platforms + + +* Serialisation beyond files + +The serialisation system can be used for generating binary data buffers in +memory (without writing the result to a file) or for packing and unpacking +data for transfer over a LAN. + + +* How it works + +Technically, we define a 'serialisable' class as a class that can be passed +to IStream::serial(). +In order for a class to be serialisable it is sufficient for it to include +the following method: + void serial(IStream&). +The fact that we use a template method definition means that a serialisable +class does not have to be derived from any other class. +All standard types are serialisable due to a non-template prototypes shown +below. +STL containers of serialisable types are serialisadble +Pointers to non-polymorphic serialisable types are serialisable. + +The IStream class definition looks something like this: + + class IStream + { + ... + void serial (int&); + void serial (float&); + ... + template <class T> void serial (T&t) + { + t.serial (*this); + } + }; + + +Example: +To make the following class serialisable: + + class myFirstClass + { + int a,b; + }; + +you would need to extend the class as follows: + + class myFirstClass + { + int a,b; + void serial (IStream&istream) + { + istream.serial(a); + istream.serial(b); + } + }; + +The following example shows how to serialise a more complicated data +structure + + class myFirstClass + { + void serial (IStream&); + }; + + class myclass + { + int BaseType; + myFirstClass SerialisableClass + std::vector< myFirstClass> STLContainerOfSerialisableClass; + myFirstClass *PointerToSerialisableClass; + std::vector< myFirstClass*> STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass; + + void serial (IStream&istream) + { + istream.serial(BaseType); + istream.serial(SerialisableClass); + istream.serialCont(STLContainerOfSerialisableClass); + istream.serialPtr(PointerToSerialisableClass); + istream.serialContPtr(STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass); + } + }; + + + +* Dealing with cross referenced or hierarchical data + +If an object contains a pointer to another object in memory then the +serialPtr() method is used to read/ write the referenced object. +The NeL library code writes a value corresponding to the pointer to the +serialised data, followed by the data that the pointer points to (In the +case of a NULL pointer the value 0 is written without any following data) +The NeL library code automatically deals with the cases where two or more +objects reference the same object or there is a circular reference. Each +time a pointer is de-referenced, for writing, NeL checks against a table of +previous pointers; if the pointer value already exists in the table then no +data is written. At read time the data structures are faithfully +reconstructed. + + +* Dealing with polymorphism within cross referenced data + +In a nut shell, in order to un-serialise a data record that one only has an +interface type for, one needs to store an additional identifier with the +data record that identifies it's real type. The mechanism for doing this is +best shown with an example: + + class IBaseClass : public IStreamable + { + // This class is an interface. It is polymorphic. + virtual void foo ()=0; + + // It must declare it's name + NLMISC_DECLARE_CLASS (MyClass); + }; + + class CClassToSerialise + { + IBaseClass *PointerToAPolymorphicClass; + + void serial (IStream& s) + { + s.serialPolyPtr (PointerToAPolymorphicClass); + } + }; + + void main () + { + ... + // The polymorphic class must be registered in the registry + NLMISC_REGISTER_CLASS (MyClass); + ... + } + + +* Dealing with file format evolution + + void serial (IStream& s) + { + // At the begining of the serial process, read/ write the version number +of the class implementation + + // In the following example - at read time 'version' contains the version +read from the stream. At + // write time version code '3' is written to the stream and to the +variable 'version'. + int version=s.serialVersion (3); + + // Now switch the version + switch (version) + { + case 3: + // The last field added in the class + s.serial (LastField); + + // do some different stuff at read time and write time + if (s.isReading()) + { + // at read time + ... + } + else + { + // at write time + ... + } + + case 2: + // note that the code provided as of here allows for the reading of old +versions of the class + + s.serial (Toto); + + // in the case where the evolution from my version 1 implementation to my +version 2 + // is not simply an extension of version 1 we need to break execution +here + break; + + case 1: + s.serial (Foo); + case 0: + s.serial (Truc); + } + + } + + +* NeL File Headers + +The objective of NeL file headers is to verify that a file is in the right +format before attempting to interpret the contents. + + // The NeL team use the following advise serialise a file this way: + void CFileRootClass::serial (IStream& s) + { + // First write / read-check the header + s.serialCheck ((uint32)'_LEN'); + s.serialCheck ((uint32)'HSEM'); + + // This code write / read-check the header 'NEL_MESH' at the beginning of +the file. + // If the check fails, serialCheck throws the EInvalidDataStream +exception. + } + +* Good examples to look at: + + include/nel/misc/stream.h // Stream base classes + class CTileBank in src/3d/tile_bank.cpp // Good example of file format +evolution + class CAnimation in src/3d/animation.cpp // Good example of polymorphism + + +--- +Cyril Corvazier +Lead 3d programmer +Nevrax France + + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#410">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#410">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#410">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#410">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..61445ed5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html @@ -0,0 +1,162 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000413.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</H1> + <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:56:44 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#412">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#412">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#412">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#412">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. + +------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +Hi, + +The good news: + +We have released the source code of some of our plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1. + +The sources available are: + +* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL binary meshes, animations, skeleton = +etc.. +* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a 3dsmax PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh. +* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks in 3dsmax. + +You can find thoses plugins in the CVS tree in nel/tools/3d/plugins_max + +The bad news: + +1) One of our plugin, the landscape painter, is not in this package = +because it is based=20 +on Discreet EditPatch source code, and we can't distribute this modified = +source code. + +2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked to the 3DSMax SDK (which is not = +Gnu GPL)=20 +and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone distributing plug-ins in binary = +form will be in=20 +breach of the Gnu GPL. + +In English than means that you shouldn't distribute the plug-ins as = +binaries. +You are, of course, free to distribute the source code. + +Regards, +Cyril Corvazier +Lead 3d programmer +Nevrax France + + + +------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> +<HTML><HEAD> +<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = +http-equiv=3DContent-Type> +<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR> +<STYLE></STYLE> +</HEAD> +<BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The good news:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have released the source code of = +some of our=20 +plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The sources available are:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL = +binary meshes,=20 +animations, skeleton etc..</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a = +3dsmax=20 +PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks = +in=20 +3dsmax.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can find thoses plugins in the CVS = +tree in=20 +nel/tools/3d/plugins_max</FONT></DIV> +<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The bad news:</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) One of our plugin, the landscape = +painter, is not=20 +in this package because it is based </FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on Discreet EditPatch source code, and = +we can't=20 +distribute this modified source code.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked = +to the 3DSMax=20 +SDK (which is not Gnu GPL) </FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone = +distributing=20 +plug-ins in binary form will be in </FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>breach of the Gnu GPL.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In English than means that you = +shouldn't distribute=20 +the plug-ins as binaries.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are, of course, free to distribute = +the source=20 +code.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> +<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 +style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cyril=20 +Corvazier<BR>Lead 3d programmer<BR>Nevrax = +France<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT=20 +face=3DArial size=3D2></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> + +------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00-- + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#412">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#412">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#412">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#412">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ff93dba5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] A small document for your consumption</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000411.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000412.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] A small document for your consumption</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] A small document for your consumption">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:15:17 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#413">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#413">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#413">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#413">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>According to Brenden Towey: +><i> From: Vincent Archer <<A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>> +</I>><i> > 3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the +</I>><i> > current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first +</I>><i> > bytes of the MD5 digest. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Would #3 solve the login & password hacking problem? +</I> +More or less. However, most of the hacking problems I've seen these days +on MMOGs do not involve a spoofed server or anything else. They're all +revolving around: + +1) A scam aimed at getting your login and password + (we have this incredible powerleveling service. Send us $30 and + your password and we'll have you level 50 in a month) + +2) A trojan (last one on EQ pretending to be an 'undetectable macro + program') that intercept the login/password pair when you *type them*. + +Still, it doesn't hurt to make a MD5 challenge. If someone can spoof +you into believing you're talking to the server, the usual crypto layer +that protects your connection against sniffing will not protect your +password (something some web designers conveniently forget, saying that +once you're using https:// urls, you can send you password in clear to +the web). + +><i> >serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state, +</I>><i> >name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS +</I>><i> >to avoid the occasional pirate server registration. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ok, I don't understand this. Why would one person or company want to do +</I>><i> this? What's the advantage to having a login service in one location and a +</I>><i> world service in another? Why not just co-locate all your services behind +</I>><i> one firewall? +</I> +Bandwidth/Lag/Security issues. + +Bandwidth is the first, and usually the less important one. But when you +start talking multiple OC12 links for your bandwidth consumption, you +quickly have limits on where you can locate your worlds. It is a lot easier +to negociate several locations with OC4 for each than say "I need a place +with two OC12". + +Lag is another one. All the world is not the states... tell it to the Aussies +who ranted and screamed till they finally got one Ultima Online server +down under. We're doing our best to make lag irrelevant, but given the +choice of playing on a server with 500 ms ping and a server with 100 ms +ping times... The experience with the latter will always be a *lot* +smoother. + +And finally security. Not network security, I'm talking real security. +Despite every premium paid, what happens if your server room catches +fire, and despite generous smothering of Halon, all your servers are +burnt to a nice crispy taste? Sure, the insurance will pay you lots of +money. But your players will no longer be there. + +Spreading your servers around makes sense on several points. + +-- +Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A> + +Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go! + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#413">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#413">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#413">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#413">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..60e27165 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Author</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-April Archives by Author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 22<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="398"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="402"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="407"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="413"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="392"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="393"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="410"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="412"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="408"></A><I>EagleEye</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="400"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="403"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="404"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="396"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="397"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="409"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="411"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="395"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="401"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="405"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="406"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="394"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A> <A NAME="399"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11e15aa2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Date</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-April Archives by Date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 22<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="392"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="393"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="394"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="395"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="396"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="397"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="398"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A> <A NAME="399"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="400"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="402"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="401"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="403"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="404"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="407"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="405"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="408"></A><I>EagleEye</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="406"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="409"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="410"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="411"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="412"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="413"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..25407f43 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Thread</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-April Archives by Thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 22<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 00986487551- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="1302"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<!--0 00986491457- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="1303"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<!--0 00986741273- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1304"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00986741273-00986831573- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1305"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1306"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461-00986909706- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1308"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00986741273-00986886108- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1307"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00986741273-00986886108-00986938501- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A> <A NAME="1309"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00987126558- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1310"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00987126558-00987180085- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1311"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00987150893- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1312"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00987150893-00987447583- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1313"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00987150893-00987447583-00987499633- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1317"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +<!--1 00987150893-00987485611- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1314"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00987523099- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="1315"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--0 00987531003- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1318"></A><I>EagleEye</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00987531003-00987681325- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1319"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00987531003-00987681325-00987782763- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1320"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00987609548- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="1316"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--0 00988294812- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1321"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00988294812-00988380917- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1323"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00988304204- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="1322"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a8578886 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Subject</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-April Archives by Subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 22<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="412"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="402"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="403"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="404"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="407"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="411"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="413"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="406"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="405"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="393"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="408"></A><I>EagleEye</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="409"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="410"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="400"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="401"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="392"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A> <A NAME="399"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="394"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="395"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="396"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="397"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="398"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..25407f43 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-April Archive by Thread</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-April Archives by Thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 22<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 00986487551- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000392.html">[Nel] Subscribe Me</A> <A NAME="1302"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<!--0 00986491457- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000393.html">[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net</A> <A NAME="1303"></A><I>Brandon</I> +<!--0 00986741273- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000394.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1304"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00986741273-00986831573- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000395.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1305"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000396.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1306"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00986741273-00986831573-00986883461-00986909706- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000398.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1308"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00986741273-00986886108- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000397.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?</A> <A NAME="1307"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00986741273-00986886108-00986938501- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000399.html">[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?</A> <A NAME="1309"></A><I>robert@thatsnice.org</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00987126558- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000400.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1310"></A><I>Dan Erikson</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00987126558-00987180085- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000401.html">[Nel] proposed control changes</A> <A NAME="1311"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00987150893- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000402.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1312"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00987150893-00987447583- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000403.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1313"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00987150893-00987447583-00987499633- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000407.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1317"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +<!--1 00987150893-00987485611- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000404.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1314"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00987523099- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000405.html">[Nel] CVS tree changes</A> <A NAME="1315"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--0 00987531003- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000408.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1318"></A><I>EagleEye</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00987531003-00987681325- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000409.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1319"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00987531003-00987681325-00987782763- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000410.html">[Nel] NeL Status Update?</A> <A NAME="1320"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00987609548- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000406.html">[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns</A> <A NAME="1316"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--0 00988294812- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000411.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1321"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00988294812-00988380917- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000413.html">[Nel] A small document for your consumption</A> <A NAME="1323"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00988304204- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000412.html">[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins</A> <A NAME="1322"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |