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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000454.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000454.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cc5df787 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000454.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000456.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Michael Warnock</B> + <A HREF="mailto:michael%40in-orbit.net" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">michael@in-orbit.net</A><BR> + <I>Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:10:44 -0700</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#454">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#454">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#454">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#454">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, <A HREF="mailto:x5101920@fedro.ugr.es">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A> wrote: + +><i> +</I>><i>Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>>: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of +</I>>><i> nel- commercial games. In addition to selling our content and service, +</I>>><i> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why +</I>>><i> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider +</I>>><i> scripture). First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification +</I>>><i> language in +</I>>><i> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at +</I>>><i> all. But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding +</I>>><i> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite +</I>>><i> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should +</I>>><i> we release the server side code? +</I>><i> +</I>><i>I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so +</I>><i>hard working on such a good project. +</I>><i> +</I>We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source. + +><i>IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public +</I>><i>and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer. +</I>><i> +</I>if it works out to seperate our rules in an external data format- because that really is what heaps and heaps of content specific rules are, then we might well release our server code (and we will of course release any changes we make to the basic services), but though ianal, I'm quite sure on the point of not being required to release internal software that makes +use of gpl'ed code and I really don't believe that even mr stallman would object given the situation- its quite a step for a game company to share source at all and it has been no small hinderance in our search for funding, nevertheless we've stuck by the gpl. + +michael warnock +InOrbit Entertainment + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#454">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#454">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#454">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#454">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000455.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000455.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..19c82260 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000455.html @@ -0,0 +1,166 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000467.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000458.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> + <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es" + TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:23:32 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#455">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#455">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#455">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#455">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one +</I>><i> of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century . +</I> +Well, there is stupid people that laugh at important things. +Idiots things everything is a joke. :-/ + +><i> Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is +</I>><i> concerned, +</I>><i> and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software +</I>><i> is +</I>><i> the great thing : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the +</I>><i> ever +</I>><i> coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... +</I>><i> those which don't provide source code . +</I> +You didn't understand it... +GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, +modify and resuse it under the GPL License. + +><i> That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for +</I>><i> individuals : +</I>><i> releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get +</I>><i> insights +</I>><i> about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source +</I>><i> providers . +</I> +No, because all the code is under the GPL. +If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you +want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not. + +><i> Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to +</I>><i> understand +</I>><i> the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it) +</I>><i> So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor +</I>><i> entities +</I>><i> - as far as software production is concerned - +</I>><i> I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global +</I>><i> leverage tendance . +</I> +You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, +great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such +project as mine is without GPL. + +GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you +get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/ + +><i> Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable +</I>><i> company +</I>><i> protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note +</I>><i> that I'm in no way related to MS . +</I>><i> Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism +</I>><i> died +</I>><i> out of realism ? +</I> +GPL is not about companies, but about users. +GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work. + +I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because: +1) It make faster the development. +2) The user base is also developers base +3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier. +4) Port to other OS are almost automatic. +5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game ) + +Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things??? + + +><i> Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' +</I>><i> methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever +</I>><i> thought +</I>><i> that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable +</I>><i> way of +</I>><i> thinking and only fools rush in . +</I> +Man... you have serious problems with your ethics. +If you say... "Mine is the best wine of the world", just tell me how you did, +and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better. +And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to +create an even better one. +That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand. + +><i> I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the +</I>><i> GPL concept , +</I>><i> (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) , +</I>><i> but +</I>><i> since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL +</I>><i> detractors . +</I>><i> Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will . +</I> +Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more +secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to +forbid people to copy and share apps. + +><i> I realize i might be removed from the list after that , +</I>><i> but I don't think it will happen . +</I> +GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions. + +><i> Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't +</I>><i> be there if not) +</I> +You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about +ethics. + +REgards, + + Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin + +nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba +Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna + + -- Echelon must die -- + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#455">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#455">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#455">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#455">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000456.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000456.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2de2428a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000456.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:bernard%40bernard-hugueney.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000454.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000457.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Debian User</B> + <A HREF="mailto:bernard%40bernard-hugueney.org" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">bernard@bernard-hugueney.org</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:32:23 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#456">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#456">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#456">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#456">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>* Michael Warnock <<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>> [010701 09:48]: +><i> 6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, <A HREF="mailto:x5101920@fedro.ugr.es">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A> wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <<A HREF="mailto:michael@in-orbit.net">michael@in-orbit.net</A>>: +</I>><i> > +</I> +><i> >> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should +</I>><i> >> we release the server side code? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so +</I>><i> >hard working on such a good project. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public +</I>><i> >and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer. +</I>><i> > +</I> + +My understanding of the GPL is that your do not have to give source code +if you do not "give" binary. This is a concern to Mr Stallman because +of the comming Application Services Providers (or that kind of Three Letters + Acronym). This should be fixed with the upcoming v 3 of the GPL. + +Neither Am I A L., but for the rules parts, my 2 euros : +the reverse engineering part is not that relevent because you could +apply to any computer prog. I know that people fitted archmage models in +matlab, but with LARGE rule sets, I don't think it's realistic. +I think it could be possible to use propritery code with GPL code +using a LGLP 'hook' layer. But I'm not sure... + +To be on thesafe side, GPL and non-GPL code should not be in the same +adress-space (ie CORBA).You have to pay an efficiency penalty to keep your code +non-GPL and that's the intended behaviour IMHO. + +For thoses who think GPL is worthless ("a joke") because you can steal / use +the code anyway, I think you are missing the point. What matter is not the +software (state of CVS at time t), but the ongoing project. That's why +there are VERY few forks on GPL land. Use the code and it's ok, the project +is working for you. Take the code, change it, and then YOU have to handle +all the evolution, or keep track of changes (what if they are not compatible +with yours ?). You can certainly catch-up very easly with a GPL project, and +it's R&D is available for everyone to use (great karma IMHO), but the +power of the successful GPL project is not in the code, but in the community +behind it. (Of course, both are linked, hard to attract people with ugly code) + +I really hope that NeL will build such a dedicated and helpful community. +(Code quality is there IMHO, for network design etc, I'not qualified...) + +Bernard + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#456">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#456">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#456">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#456">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000458.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000458.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..25246f56 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000458.html @@ -0,0 +1,179 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000455.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000459.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>elijah wright</B> + <A HREF="mailto:elw%40stderr.org" + TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">elw@stderr.org</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:57:10 -0400 (EDT)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#458">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#458">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#458">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#458">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE> +could the GPL bigots and zealots please find something else to do with +their time? you're wasting a lot of energy on something that is +well-understood and needs very little additional explanation. + +elijah + + +><i> > Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is +</I>><i> > concerned, +</I>><i> > and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software +</I>><i> > is +</I>><i> > the great thing : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the +</I>><i> > ever +</I>><i> > coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... +</I>><i> > those which don't provide source code . +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You didn't understand it... +</I>><i> GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, +</I>><i> modify and resuse it under the GPL License. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for +</I>><i> > individuals : +</I>><i> > releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get +</I>><i> > insights +</I>><i> > about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source +</I>><i> > providers . +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No, because all the code is under the GPL. +</I>><i> If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you +</I>><i> want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to +</I>><i> > understand +</I>><i> > the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it) +</I>><i> > So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor +</I>><i> > entities +</I>><i> > - as far as software production is concerned - +</I>><i> > I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global +</I>><i> > leverage tendance . +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, +</I>><i> great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such +</I>><i> project as mine is without GPL. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you +</I>><i> get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/ +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable +</I>><i> > company +</I>><i> > protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note +</I>><i> > that I'm in no way related to MS . +</I>><i> > Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism +</I>><i> > died +</I>><i> > out of realism ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> GPL is not about companies, but about users. +</I>><i> GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because: +</I>><i> 1) It make faster the development. +</I>><i> 2) The user base is also developers base +</I>><i> 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier. +</I>><i> 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic. +</I>><i> 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game ) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things??? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' +</I>><i> > methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever +</I>><i> > thought +</I>><i> > that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable +</I>><i> > way of +</I>><i> > thinking and only fools rush in . +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Man... you have serious problems with your ethics. +</I>><i> If you say... "Mine is the best wine of the world", just tell me how you did, +</I>><i> and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better. +</I>><i> And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to +</I>><i> create an even better one. +</I>><i> That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the +</I>><i> > GPL concept , +</I>><i> > (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) , +</I>><i> > but +</I>><i> > since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL +</I>><i> > detractors . +</I>><i> > Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will . +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more +</I>><i> secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to +</I>><i> forbid people to copy and share apps. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > I realize i might be removed from the list after that , +</I>><i> > but I don't think it will happen . +</I>><i> +</I>><i> GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't +</I>><i> > be there if not) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about +</I>><i> ethics. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> REgards, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin +</I>><i> +</I>><i> nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba +</I>><i> Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- Echelon must die -- +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> +-- + + +-- +$ chown us:us yourbase -R + + + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#458">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#458">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#458">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#458">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..90326e72 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000458.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000460.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>stephane.craux@voila.fr</B> + <A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux%40voila.fr" + TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:01:45 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#459">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#459">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#459">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#459">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> > You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, +</I>><i> > great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such +</I>><i> > project as mine is without GPL. +</I>Ah , so u are the grat man , it will be a primer ! + +><i> > GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you +</I>><i> > get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/ +</I>agreed + +><i> > I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because: +</I>><i> > 1) It make faster the development. +</I>did u get it right ????? +><i> > 2) The user base is also developers base +</I>sure ? +><i> > 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier. +</I>proved ? +><i> > 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic. +</I>yes , but is it that much important ? +><i> > 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game ) +</I>mmm +><i> > Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things??? +</I>what kind of mix are trying to involve here ? +><i> > Man... you have serious problems with your ethics. +</I>you are in real rouble with ur mind , but I'm quiet confident +u may still evolve , i hope that , be sure of it :) +><i> > You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about +</I>><i> > ethics. +</I>I learned I school that u have always more to learn , did u miss that point ? +no time loosed , quiet easy answers , regards for comin' into it + +Stephane +__________________________________________________ +Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail: +<A HREF="http://mail.voila.fr">http://mail.voila.fr</A> + + + + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#459">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#459">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#459">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#459">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ef4ab980 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000459.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000461.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Yann Morvan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu" + TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:08:10 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#460">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#460">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#460">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#460">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Man man, what have I started ? :) +I suggest we stop bugging the other +members of this mailing list with ideological +discussions that should take place elsewhere. +After all, my question was answered and the answer was that +there finally was no problem with having one's rules code public. + + Yann + + + + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#460">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#460">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#460">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#460">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..577ed135 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000460.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000463.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</B> + <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es" + TITLE="[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:07:57 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#461">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#461">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#461">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#461">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I repeat... I am not part of Nevrax. Just a fellow developer that is following +this guys great work. + +><i> > > I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because: +</I>><i> > > 1) It make faster the development. +</I>><i> did u get it right ????? +</I> +GPL shorts develpoment time as the amount of code that can be reused is +infinite. + +><i> > > 2) The user base is also developers base +</I>><i> sure ? +</I> +Sure. Start yourself a GPL project and you will see. + +><i> > > 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier. +</I>><i> proved ? +</I> +Ask GPG guys ;-) + +><i> > > 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic. +</I>><i> yes , but is it that much important ? +</I> +Well, if you run Windows perhaps not... but what about a MacOS user or a Linux +PPC user? + +Regards, + + Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin + +nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba +Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna + + -- Echelon must die -- + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#461">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#461">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#461">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#461">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000462.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000462.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c229912a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000462.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000457.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000468.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:10:47 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#462">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#462">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#462">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#462">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like +September for a working version of Snowballs. +That's due to the fact that people at Nevrax rewrote lots of code since the +last release of Snowballs. + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A> + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Yann Morvan" <<A HREF="mailto:ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:34 PM +Subject: [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + +><i> I've managed to build nel correctly, but +</I>><i> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes +</I>><i> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/ +</I>><i> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole +</I>><i> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out +</I>><i> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ? +</I>><i> Thanks in advance, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yann +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#462">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#462">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#462">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#462">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000463.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000463.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fb0b7777 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000463.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] culling and transforms</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000461.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000464.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] culling and transforms</H1> + <B>Lionel Berenguier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:berenguier%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] culling and transforms">berenguier@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:14:03 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#463">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#463">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#463">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#463">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>----- Original Message ----- +From: <<A HREF="mailto:stephane.craux@voila.fr">stephane.craux@voila.fr</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:21 PM +Subject: [Nel] culling and transforms + + +><i> Hi , +</I>><i> I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and +</I>><i> noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing +</I>><i> the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the +</I>><i> view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly : +</I> +Is it not nearly the same? + +transform the planes: transform 6 planes => 6*16= 96 muls. +transform the AABB: transform 8 vectors => 8*12= 96 muls. + +But maybe your trick to transform an AABB is to just transform the center +(12), then transform the 3 half vectors of the AABB (3*3 because of their +axis form), and then just do some add ? (ooops :) ) + +regards + +Lionel. + + +</pre> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#463">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#463">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#463">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#463">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..60495ea1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] A bit of news</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000463.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000465.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] A bit of news</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] A bit of news">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:32:23 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#464">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#464">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#464">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#464">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>The following news will appear on the sight later today. + +Regards to all. +Daniel + + +PARTICLE SYSTEM +First release of the particle system editor with full access to the +particule system engine is out (it's an extension to the object viewer). + +ENVIRONMENT MAPPING +Flat and cubic environment map rendering have been added to the 3D engine +and the tools. + +AUDIO LIBRARY +The lowest level layer of the sound library is functional (the sound library +is still in very early stage of development) + +SERVICE ADMIN IMPROVEMENTS +Loads of new features added to the Win32 displayer +- window positions can be stored in the config file +- displayer window now has a prompt to allow live interaction with running +services (Note: The same commands can be sent to the services by the admin +client) + +LIGHT MAPS +Version 1.0 of the lightmap implementation is fully implemented and +available + +COLLISIONS +Version 1.0 of the PACS collision code fully implemented and available + + +</pre> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#464">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#464">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#464">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#464">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0eb060fd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Congratulations + concerns</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000464.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000466.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</H1> + <B>Dave Turner</B> + <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org" + TITLE="[Nel] Congratulations + concerns">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:05:00 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#465">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#465">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#465">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#465">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>elijah wright wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> > You are totally wrong... +</I>><i> > Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License... +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :) +</I>><i> > So you have to publish your source under GPL. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> incorrect. you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed +</I>><i> libraries. library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do +</I>><i> not constitute "extending" GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as +</I>><i> it is intended to be used. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team +</I>><i> could countenance dual-licensing any such "rules API" and releasing +</I>><i> parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses. +</I>><i> +</I> +1. Do not use the term commercial when you mean proprietary. +Proprietary is the opposite of Free as in Freedom. + +2. The exception to the GPL refers only to system libraries. + +See this for details: +<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html#MoneyGuzzlerInc">http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html#MoneyGuzzlerInc</A> + +-- +-[Dave Turner Stalk me: (215)-545-2859] +--------------------------------------------------------------------- +Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the +street or get a phone call and you'll be there. We miss you, Pug. + +</pre> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#465">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#465">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#465">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#465">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7f8245a3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Game Rules</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000465.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000473.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Game Rules</H1> + <B>Dave Turner</B> + <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org" + TITLE="[Nel] Game Rules">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:42:42 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#466">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#466">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#466">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#466">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE><A HREF="mailto:x5101920@fedro.ugr.es">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A> wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> Mensaje citado por: John Cosby <<A HREF="mailto:jcosby@gscyclone.com">jcosby@gscyclone.com</A>>: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of +</I>><i> > a +</I>><i> > game cannot be copyrighted. Specific presentation, game boards, pieces, +</I>><i> > etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define +</I>><i> > gameplay +</I>><i> > cannot. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I am not a lawer... But you say "the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted." +</I>><i> Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k? +</I>><i> So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic, +</I>><i> they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you +</I>><i> can copy right D&D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy +</I>><i> right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to +</I>><i> patent it to. :-( +</I> +You can patent a game rule set: + +<A HREF="http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,641,166'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,641,166&RS=PN/5,641,166">http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,641,166'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,641,166&RS=PN/5,641,166</A> +<A HREF="http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1='board+game'&OS="board+game"&RS="board+game"">http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1='board+game'&OS="board+game"&RS="board+game"</A> + +You can also copyright the precise look of a critical hit table, and the +wording of the hits, and the arrangement of them, but not the +information therein. If the arrangement is the only logical one or +otherwise doesn't involve creativity, then it is not copyrightable (see +ALEXANDRIA DRAFTING CO V. FRANKLIN MAPS at +<A HREF="http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/97D0773P.HTM">http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/97D0773P.HTM</A>). + +In short, creative stuff (even slightly creative) is copyrightable. +Processes, etc. are patentable. So, the code to implement critical hits +is copyrightable, but if someone reverse engineers and reimplements it, +the author has no recourse. + + +Disclaimer: IANAL. But I know more about copyright, patent, and +trademark law than both of my parents put together. And they are +lawyers :) + +-- +-[Dave Turner Stalk me: (215)-545-2859] +--------------------------------------------------------------------- +Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the +street or get a phone call and you'll be there. We miss you, Pug. + +</pre> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#466">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#466">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#466">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#466">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f9b17c75 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000472.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000455.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:20:56 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#467">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#467">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#467">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#467">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi Yann, + +Nel changeds a lot since we wrote Snowballs. If you want compile it, you should +compile the NeL source code provided with the Snowballs source code on +nevrax.org : + + <A HREF="http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_1.zip">http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_1.zip</A> +or + <A HREF="http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_2.tar.gz">http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_2.tar.gz</A> + +Have fun :-) + + +Yann Morvan wrote: +><i> I've managed to build nel correctly, but +</I>><i> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes +</I>><i> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/ +</I>><i> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole +</I>><i> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out +</I>><i> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ? +</I>><i> Thanks in advance, +</I> +</pre> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#467">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#467">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#467">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#467">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9f668c18 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000462.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000469.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1> + <B>Cedric Valignat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:04:57 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#468">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#468">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#468">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#468">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi, + +Valerio Santinelli wrote: +><i> The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like +</I>><i> September for a working version of Snowballs. +</I> +In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the end +of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-) + +I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs should +look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do my +best in that way :-) + +It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with several +services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the +server structur will show how we design NeL to be used. + +Have fun ... + + +Cedric. + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#468">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#468">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#468">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#468">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1092566d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000468.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000470.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1> + <B>Yann Morvan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40mrl.nyu.edu" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:04:32 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#469">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#469">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#469">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#469">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs. +The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism +used by the server to identify a player's action and call the +matching piece of code, and how to define those "pieces of code". +I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it, +but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find, +don't hesitate to tell me about it. + + Yann + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#469">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#469">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#469">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#469">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..74ca6758 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html @@ -0,0 +1,129 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000469.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000471.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:51:48 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#470">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#470">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#470">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#470">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Your best bet for now is to look at the layer 4 code sample +(<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/net_layer4">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/net_layer4</A>) + +In this example the 'client' sends messages to the 'frontend', the +'frontend' treats these messages and sends them to the 'ping service'. The +'ping service' receives messages from the 'frontend', treats them and sends +back new messages. The 'frontend' receives messages from the 'server', +treats them and dispatches new messages to the 'client'... + +The following chunks of code in the 'frontend' is the key. You can extend +the callback arrays to include messages for all the actions that the player +can send to the shard: + + +/* + * Callback array for messages received from a client + */ +TCallbackItem CallbackArray[] = +{ + { "PING", cbPing } // when receiving a "PING" message, call +cbPing() +}; + + +/* + * Callback array for message received from the ping service + */ +TCallbackItem PingServiceCallbackArray[] = +{ + { "PONG", cbPong } // when receiving a "PONG" message, call +cbPong() +}; + + + +Snowballs, being based on an older version of NeL, is far less clean - the +callback table contains a mixture of admin messages (such as "C" and "D"), +and game messages (such as "PAN" and "SHO"). Otherwise the principles are +the same. + +// Callback array as a server +TCallbackItem CallbackArray [] = +{ + { "ES", cbServerProcessEntityState }, + //{ "BT", cbSpawnBot }, + { "C", cbConnect }, + { "D", cbDisconnect }, + //{ "RST", cbResetServer }, + { "NAM", cbAssignName }, + { "PAN", cbPan }, + { "SHO", cbShoot }, + { "RMW", cbProcessRemoveWeapon }, + { "AUT", cbWelcome }, + { "DUMP", cbDumpState }, + { "CHAT", cbChat }, + { "PING", cbPing }, + { "PONG", cbPong } + //{ "ACC", cbGiveAccess } // this is for the test client. Remove it +for a real use or any client can connect with any password ! +}; + +-----Original Message----- +From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of +Yann Morvan +Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 8:05 PM +To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> +Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + +That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs. +The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism +used by the server to identify a player's action and call the +matching piece of code, and how to define those "pieces of code". +I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it, +but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find, +don't hesitate to tell me about it. + + Yann + +_______________________________________________ +Nel mailing list +<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#470">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#470">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#470">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#470">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..70ede038 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowballs building problem</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000470.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000472.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowballs building problem</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowballs building problem">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:29:44 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#471">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#471">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#471">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#471">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Go Cedric, go! We're all with you :) + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A> + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Cedric Valignat" <<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 7:04 PM +Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + +><i> +</I>><i> Hi, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Valerio Santinelli wrote: +</I>><i> > The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like +</I>><i> > September for a working version of Snowballs. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the +</I>end +><i> of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs +</I>should +><i> look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do +</I>my +><i> best in that way :-) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with +</I>several +><i> services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the +</I>><i> server structur will show how we design NeL to be used. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Have fun ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Cedric. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#471">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#471">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#471">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#471">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..97f0fa6c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html @@ -0,0 +1,115 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Italian NeL community</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000466.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000475.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Italian NeL community</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] Italian NeL community">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:15:42 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#473">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#473">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#473">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#473">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti. + +------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20 +Content-Type: text/plain; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +This message is mainly intended for the head people at Nevrax.=20 + +I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com for italian = +people using NeL. +This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new = +section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of = +code and the like.=20 + +Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in = +supporting this initiative? +Other people's thoughts about this are welcome. + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +HateSeed.com Founder (<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>) +In Flames Italia Webmaster (<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>) +My Lab (<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>) + +------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20 +Content-Type: text/html; + charset="iso-8859-1" +Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable + +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> +<HTML><HEAD> +<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = +charset=3Diso-8859-1"> +<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR> +<STYLE></STYLE> +</HEAD> +<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This message is mainly intended for the = +head people=20 +at Nevrax. </FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am thinking about opening a new = +section on=20 +hateseed.com for italian people using NeL.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This means that I'd open a new forum = +for=20 +NeL-related talkings and a new section with NeL related material like = +downloads,=20 +tutorials, snippets of code and the like. </FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you think this would be usefull? = +Would you be=20 +interested in supporting this initiative?</FONT></DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Other people's thoughts about this are=20 +welcome.</FONT></DIV> +<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> +<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio = +Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20 +(<A href=3D"<A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com"">http://www.hateseed.com"</A>><A HREF="http://www.hateseed.com</A">http://www.hateseed.com</A</A>>)<BR>In = +Flames=20 +Italia Webmaster (<A=20 +href=3D"<A HREF="http://www.inflames.it"">http://www.inflames.it"</A>><A HREF="http://www.inflames.it</A">http://www.inflames.it</A</A>>)<BR>My Lab = +(<A=20 +href=3D"<A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com"">http://tanis.hateseed.com"</A>><A HREF="http://tanis.hateseed.com</A">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A</A>>)</FONT><= +/DIV></BODY></HTML> + +------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20-- + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#473">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#473">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#473">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#473">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8e440846 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000475.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000476.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</H1> + <B>Olivier Lejade</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:10:14 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#474">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#474">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#474">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#474">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Wow, I'm out of town for three days and I miss all the fun ! :) +Anyway, here goes my 0.02$. + +About the "game rules" issue: +John and Dave pretty much hit the nail on the head, so I won't go into an +extended rant. I'll only add that although you could probably (as Dave +mentionned) patent your rules *in the US*, it would most certainly be a bad +idea as it is very expensive and time consuming to fill such a patent and +numerous countries will not recognize it anyway. +Keep in mind that software and business method patents are highly +objectionable in the first place. You can read more about this subject here: +<A HREF="http://www.freepatents.org/">http://www.freepatents.org/</A> +and here: +<A HREF="http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/against-software-patents.html">http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/against-software-patents.html</A> + +European citizens should also consider signing the petition against +software patents: +<A HREF="http://petition.eurolinux.org/index.html?LANG=en">http://petition.eurolinux.org/index.html?LANG=en</A> + +As for the Pro/Anti GPL debate: +Stephane Craux, I'm afraid you are *completely* missing the point of Free +Software. If you are genuinely interested in learning about it and +understanding what it stands for, I strongly suggest you spend some time +reading the texts on the GNU project's "philosophy" page: +<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/">http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/</A> +But I suspect you're only trolling... :( + +Finally, for those who still have questions about NeL's license, don't +forget: the GPL FAQ is your friend ! +<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html">http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html</A> + +Hope this helps ! + +O. + + + + + +-- Nevrax -- +Olivier Lejade +CEO and co-founder +www.nevrax.com + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#474">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#474">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#474">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#474">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fc1de228 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Italian NeL community</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000473.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000474.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Italian NeL community</H1> + <B>Olivier Lejade</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Italian NeL community">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:43:12 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#475">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#475">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#475">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#475">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>At 10:15 AM 7/4/01 +0200, you wrote: +><i>I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com +</I> +Nice site. +It's a pity my Italian is so lousy: it seems interesting too. + +><i>This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new +</I>><i>section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of +</I>><i>code and the like. +</I>><i>Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in supporting +</I>><i>this initiative? +</I> +Well to be honest, I have no idea if it would be useful... +But if *you* think some Italian-only speaking people would be interested, +then sure: go for it ! :) +And if you go so far as to translate some NeL docs and stuff, I'm sure Yan +would be happy to make some space for them on the official NeL website. +Here at Nevrax, we're focusing on an international, english speaking +community, but it would be cool to have localized forums elsewhere. + + + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#475">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#475">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#475">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#475">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..040243a3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] GPL & Nevrax</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000474.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000477.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</H1> + <B>Olivier Lejade</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] GPL & Nevrax">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 04 Jul 2001 16:01:52 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#476">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#476">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#476">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#476">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>BTW, we put it on the website but we forgot to tell you guys. We formed an +advisory board for Nevrax: +<A HREF="http://nevrax.com/press/board.php">http://nevrax.com/press/board.php</A> +and Richard Stallman agreed to be on the board (a premiere AFAIK). +He serves as our moral authority regarding Free Software, so I guess that +we can safely say we are pretty well advised as far as the GPL is +concerned... ;) + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#476">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#476">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#476">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#476">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bba93532 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40ens-lyon.fr"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000500.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000495.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Yann Morvan</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ymorvan%40ens-lyon.fr" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:59:27 +0200 (MET DST)</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#478">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#478">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#478">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#478">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I've read the thread on MUD-Dev and some people here, +who seem to be quite experienced, say that TCP is not a +good choice for client/server communication when there are +many users and with real time constraints and it seems reasonable +since TCP implements re-emit mecanisms which are irrelevent +if the resent data doesn't matter anymore. They +say that UDP is a better choice, though EA and AC designed their own +layer. I am not a network expert but I think it would be wise to ponder +things thoroughly on that point, but I realize that designing one's own +layer (even using UDP as a starting point) is probably quite a hard task. + + Yann + + + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#478">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#478">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#478">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#478">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000479.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000479.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b8a279c5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000479.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000477.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000480.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Dim Segebart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:00:13 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#479">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#479">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#479">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#479">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Sorry, I'm not the network guru at all, so may be it looks childish ... +I think you should implement minimum error checking protocol - +1. Client sends UDP data to the server +2. Client wait for confirmation from other end what data was received (use some +UID for packets to send back as confirmation) +3. If some timeout expired without confirmation, then client resends its data again + +Thursday, July 05, 2001, 4:36:47 PM, you wrote: + +VL> Hi everybody! + +VL> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP + +VL> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool +VL> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your +VL> thought and discuss about this. + +VL> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server +VL> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of +VL> problem like horrible ping or connection lost: +VL> <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A> + +VL> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems +VL> here: +VL> <A HREF="https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php">https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php</A> + +VL> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication, +VL> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and +VL> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one. + +VL> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And +VL> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to +VL> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that. + +VL> Vianney Lecroart +VL> --- +VL> lead network programmer / nevrax.com +VL> icq#: 6870415 +VL> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +VL> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K- +VL> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? + + +VL> _______________________________________________ +VL> Nel mailing list +VL> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +VL> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> + + + +-- +Dim Segebart mailto:<A HREF="mailto:zager@teleaction.de">zager@teleaction.de</A> + + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#479">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#479">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#479">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#479">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000480.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000480.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f1190c50 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000480.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000479.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000484.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Nicolas Hognon</B> + <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:00:15 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#480">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#480">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#480">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#480">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication, +</I>><i> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and +</I>><i> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one. +</I> +You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP. +If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea. + +in "effective TCP/IP Programming" Jon C. Snader says +in +Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP +Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP + +Ok, i'm not very useful in this conversation but +i'm not (yet :)) a network guru .... + +I'm interest by answer from other people. + +><i> +</I>><i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And +</I>><i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to +</I>><i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Vianney Lecroart +</I>><i> --- +</I>><i> lead network programmer / nevrax.com +</I>><i> icq#: 6870415 +</I>><i> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +</I>><i> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K- +</I>><i> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I> + + +-- +Nicolas Hognon +<A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> + +Virtools - The Behavior Company +Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53 +<A HREF="http://www.virtools.com/">http://www.virtools.com/</A> + + +</pre> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#480">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#480">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#480">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#480">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000481.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000481.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0f12b7dd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000481.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000493.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000483.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Valerio Santinelli</B> + <A HREF="mailto:tanis%40digi-web.it" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">tanis@digi-web.it</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:02:54 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#481">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#481">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#481">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#481">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>You already know my position :) + +UDP for everything except datas that should get through reliably and that +aren't making a great impact on gaming speed, like chat, which should be +reliable (i don't really want to lose pieces of discussion throughout the +net) but that it's not critical to be delivered without lag. + +-- +Valerio Santinelli +<A HREF="http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/">http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/</A> + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Vianney Lecroart" <<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:36 PM +Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + +><i> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool +</I>><i> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your +</I>><i> thought and discuss about this. +</I> + + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#481">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#481">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#481">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#481">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000482.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000482.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0f399186 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000482.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000483.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000485.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Dave Turner</B> + <A HREF="mailto:novalis%40novalis.org" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">novalis@novalis.org</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:14:47 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#482">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#482">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#482">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#482">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Vianney Lecroart wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> Hi everybody! +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool +</I>><i> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your +</I>><i> thought and discuss about this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server +</I>><i> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of +</I>><i> problem like horrible ping or connection lost: +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems +</I>><i> here: +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php">https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication, +</I>><i> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and +</I>><i> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And +</I>><i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to +</I>><i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Vianney Lecroart +</I> +There's often a lot of lag at the beginning of a UDP "connection" (yes, +I know UDP doesn't have those). Then gateways, which consider UDP to +have higher priority, remember that there's a connection, and things +start going faster. Your tests should be written with this in mind. + +You might also want to look into XUDP, +<A HREF="http://www.gweep.net/~rocko/XUDP_Paper/paper.html">http://www.gweep.net/~rocko/XUDP_Paper/paper.html</A> + + +-- +-[Dave Turner Stalk me: (215)-545-2859] +--------------------------------------------------------------------- +"I would say our forefathers would have been ashamed, but they were +slave owners." - Slashdot Anonymous Coward. Bring Pug back! + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#482">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#482">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#482">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#482">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000483.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000483.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5189b33f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000483.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000481.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000482.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Dim Segebart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com" + TITLE="Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:45:39 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#483">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#483">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#483">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#483">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Just facts: +We run relatively large chat server with our own server software. We +use TCP for all communications between Java clients and server-side. +At peak-load time we have 2000 opened TCP-sockets at once. Profiling +shows up what most of CPU time server performs write(). +And finally SW and HW - we use SunOS 5.7 aka Solaris7 +Our homemade software written in C++ utilize 2,5 CPU out of 4 in our +Sun Enterprise Server 450 with 4 CPU and 1G RAM +May be someone have the similar service on UDP and can share his +statistic ? + +-- +Dim Segebart + + + +</pre> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#483">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#483">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#483">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#483">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000484.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000484.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bbe419dc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000484.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000480.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000486.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">archer@frmug.org</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:50:31 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#484">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#484">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#484">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#484">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>According to Nicolas Hognon: +><i> > As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication, +</I>><i> > but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and +</I>><i> > more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP. +</I>><i> If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea. +</I> +Hi. And first, I confirm I'm the same Vincent Archer that had @nevrax.com, +but I no longer work there. Just resubscribed in time to see the discussion. + +I had a vulgarisation post on the topic on one yahoogroups (Dark Age of +Camelot), but you can't access it without subscribing, so I'll summarise +the thing. + +><i> Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP +</I>><i> Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP +</I> +That's good advice... if you have the objectives of TCP in mind. You don't. +In theory. + +Pros of TCP: + +- Reliable +- Optimised over 20 years of programming +- Fast for development +- Most of the firewalls/telecom eqpt out hereare optimised for TCP protocols; + I know several IP providers who drop anything non-TCP based first when they + suffer congestion on their routers. + +Cons of TCP: + +- TCP is stream-based, the unit is the byte. You need to provide your own + packet framing, as you may, with one read call, catch part of a packet, + an entire packet, or multiple packets at the same time. +- TCP has its own model for retransmission of data; you have minimal to no + input on that model's behaviour. And the model is geared to the transmission + of bulk data. There is one bit to indicate "interactive data" in the TCP + protocol; no common equipment I know out there uses or checks that bit. +- TCP is strictly sequential: there is no way to access data "as soon as + received", or to ignore/discard "obsolete data": each data chunk must be + received, processed (at least at the framing level 5 layer, if you follow + the OSI layer model) before the next one. + +The last item in the list is what makes everyone look toward UDP (or any +other IP-level protocol in fact, but routers and firewalls are usually +disposed to treat more kindly UDP protocols than pure IP ones) for any +application with real time constraints where: + +1: The exact ordering of data isn't a strong requirement +2: The immediate processing of received data is highly desirable + +The real trap, as you underline, is when people design their own protocol +over UDP and end up using the same - unconscious - model as TCP; this +often leads to a "poor man's TCP" protocol that address none of the cons +while providing none of the pros. + +To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the +data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e. meaning) +of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you +cannot plug in a "random UDP protocol" in your app (in this case, the +client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in +complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go directly +to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already +made and tested. + +Then, there's the whole problem of kernel resources devoted to TCP stack. +I pass here; I'm not a kernel developper. + +(but anyone who plays AO knows the problems you can have merely to *connect* + to the game at times) + +-- + Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A> + +All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates. + (Woody Allen) + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#484">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#484">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#484">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#484">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000485.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000485.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..53a1a772 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000485.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000482.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000487.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">archer@frmug.org</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:04:42 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#485">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#485">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#485">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#485">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>According to Vianney Lecroart: +><i> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server +</I>><i> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of +</I>><i> problem like horrible ping or connection lost: +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A> +</I> + +This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of +AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the +real "problem". + +I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience +"bad lag" (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution). +However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag. + +They still chat with each other. + +And I've done checking with tcpdump: you do not talk directly between clients. +Everything goes thru the AO servers. + +My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service +model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a +zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported +by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service +crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and +randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning +(zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection timeout - + you get "Area Change not initiated on server). + +So you have: + +Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP ----> Zone server + ^ / + | / + V / +Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP -/ + +which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there +appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens +communication to zone servers. :( + +><i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And +</I>><i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to +</I>><i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that. +</I> +Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under TCP :) +(you lose connection first) + +-- + Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A> + +All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates. + (Woody Allen) + +</pre> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#485">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#485">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#485">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#485">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000486.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000486.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cf1a7567 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000486.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000484.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000491.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Zane</B> + <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zane@supernova.org</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:08:09 -0700</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#486">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#486">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#486">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#486">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>----- Original Message ----- +From: "Vincent Archer" <<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>> +Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:50 AM + + +><i> To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the +</I>><i> data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e. +</I>meaning) +><i> of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you +</I>><i> cannot plug in a "random UDP protocol" in your app (in this case, the +</I>><i> client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in +</I>><i> complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go +</I>directly +><i> to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already +</I>><i> made and tested. +</I> +I don't believe that this is entirely true. Let's look at what we need out +of a protocol for NeL: + +1) Know what data HAS to be delivered and what data doesn't really. +2) Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large +chunk of data +at once or out of order. (If the data is spread out, not read in one call to +the network object, then we don't need to know if it can be overwritten, and +in order the game engine will overwrite it if it's the same class of data) + +Problem one is very easy to solve, we simply use a priority argument when +sending data with our network object. In this case high priority data could +be sent via TCP and low priority data could be sent via UDP. + +Problem two really isn't all that hard to solve either. Perhaps we have a +'class' argument whend sending data via our network object. When a packet +is sent it includes it's data class and a serial number, both client and +server keep track of both. When we recieve data we check the class and +serial number. If the serial number is out of sequence and the data is +considered old for that class then it's discarded, otherwise it's accepted. +If the data has no class (class is set to 0) then all data is accepted and +the serial number isn't checked. + +The only problem I see is mainting the large list of data classes. Really I +don't think it's that much of a problem and wether or not you're using this +model if you do discarding of data you'll be doing class checking in some +form anyway. + +I'm sure the rest of you will point out the many other flaws I don't see. +:<i>P +</I> +-E.J. Wilburn +<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A> + + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#486">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#486">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#486">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#486">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000487.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000487.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..476feec6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000487.html @@ -0,0 +1,147 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000485.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000490.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Zane</B> + <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zane@supernova.org</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:05:07 -0700</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#487">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#487">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#487">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#487">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>----- Original Message ----- +From: "Vincent Archer" <<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>> +Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:04 AM + + +><i> This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of +</I>><i> AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the +</I>><i> real "problem". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience +</I>><i> "bad lag" (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution). +</I>><i> However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag. +</I> +I also play AO but every time I've experienced real "bad lag" you cannot sit +or do any action that requires server-side confirmation including ALL chat +channels. In fact, I frequently will say something or shout something so +that I know as soon as it shows up it's done lagging and this works like a +charm. What they're experiencing is a different type of lag than is +discussed in the above post, that's when a particular zone they're in lags +(or the server hosting that zone) but not all servers are affected. I +haven't experienced that type of lag since beta. + +As a side note I've noticed that when I get the "bad lag" others around me +appear to get it too (at least sometimes) which lends weight to the packet +storm theory. + +><i> My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service +</I>><i> model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a +</I>><i> zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported +</I>><i> by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service +</I>><i> crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and +</I>><i> randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning +</I>><i> (zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection +</I>timeout - +><i> you get "Area Change not initiated on server). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So you have: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP ----> Zone server +</I>><i> ^ / +</I>><i> | / +</I>><i> V / +</I>><i> Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP -/ +</I>><i> +</I>><i> which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there +</I>><i> appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens +</I>><i> communication to zone servers. :( +</I> +There doesn't need to be one front-end per client. There can be several +load-balanced front-ends that handle multiple clients each. The major +problem with this is if one front-end crashes all those clients get dropped +(although under UNIX (I haven't been able to get win32 to do this) you can +pull some funky sockets tricks and recover from a crash without dropping +most players, just majorly lagging them & loosing some updates). + +The good side to this is you only need one connection per client per +protocol (so 2 connections if using both TCP and UDP). Unfortunately with +TCP that's both a pro and a con. With one TCP connection a dropped packet +on a chat message delays all other TCP traffic, but it also lessens +bandwidth and server resources over multiple connections (larger, more +efficient packets). Also, with a single front end you can have as many +seperate services as you want without having to have a ton of different +connections to the client. + +Regardless, we have no data as to wether or not AO is doing it that way. +Maybe tonight I'll run it in windowed mode and check netstat. If we've got +more than one active TCP connection to Funcom servers than that model +probably isn't what they're using. + +On a side note, using multiple TCP connections would eliminate some of the +packet-loss latency issues at the cost of increased bandwidth. Say you have +one connection for chat channels, one for inventory & stat handling, one for +world actions and one for combat. If connection 1 drops a packet its lag +won't affect the other connections as much. But of course if they all drop +packets at the same time we get the packet storm problem again. :) + +><i> Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under +</I>TCP :) +><i> (you lose connection first) +</I> +Yes but TCP has latency issues, UDP has packet-loss issues. Why can't we +have the uber protocol that has neither??? :) + +BTW, does anyone know if ipv6 has addressed this issue? I'm aware of QoS +but not sure to what degree they've taken it. Personally I think the only +way we could get garunteed delivery with low latency is to have each router +along the way garuntee a packet is delivered (if, of course, it's load +allows that packet to be accepted in the first place). That way if a packet +is dropped by a router due to load (or some other issue) the previous router +expects a timely response and when it doesn't get one it resends or sends +via a different route. (Of course I would expect a per-packet ack, probably +a CRC-ack for a certain amount of traffic) The point being the original +sender should never have to resend as long as the first router gets all the +packets. + +-E.J. Wilburn +<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A> + + + +</pre> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#487">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#487">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#487">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#487">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000488.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000488.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e59240d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000488.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000490.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000501.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>David Mentre</B> + <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40inria.fr" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A><BR> + <I>06 Jul 2001 09:54:59 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#488">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#488">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#488">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#488">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi, + +><i>From all other posters, it seems that performance result is highly +</I>dependent on implementation. So to make the Really Good Choice(tm), you +should have both and choose according to *figures*. So I would do that +in the following order : + + 1. design a "packet sending" layer which allows messages + sending/receiving with semantics in mind (see Vincent's post in the + same thread). Maybe NeL has already that, I haven't check the + source, sorry. + + 2. implement this layer using TCP. Should be straightforward. + + => gives you a backup implementation + + => gives you basic performance figures + + 3. design and implement UDP implementation_s_ with various + requirements depending on the following parameters: + + - packet loss or not + + - in order delivery or not + + You could start from the easiest (packet loss && out of order <=> + raw UDP) and incrementally develop more complicated ones. + + 4. substitute parts of TCP implementation (chat, position packets, ...) + with the corresponding UDP based protocol + + 5. implement a benchmark and test, test, test, ... ; then go to step 4 + and loop + + +Ok. I don't propose any line of code so you could directly throw this +post to /dev/null but you asked for comments. ;) + +BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to +reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it +may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax +on some spare partition to try to "enter the loop". + +Best regards, +d. +-- + <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@inria.fr">David.Mentre@inria.fr</A> + Opinions expressed here are only mine. + +</pre> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#488">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#488">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#488">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#488">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000489.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000489.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5d04e7f9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000489.html @@ -0,0 +1,130 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000506.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000492.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>alfred</B> + <A HREF="mailto:alfred%40mazuma.net.au" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">alfred@mazuma.net.au</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:41:50 +1000</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#489">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#489">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#489">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#489">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>You *must* replace your transport mechanism with UDP :) + +TCP provides (nah, ensures) reliable delivery of data, but it can spend a +long time transmitting (especially on clogged up links). Between packet +errors and backoffs due to packet drops it can easily take 2seconds plus to +get data down the "tcp pipe". And seeing its a pipe, everything behind it is +"backed" up. So, time critical data can't just jump past useless data (like +MOTD's,etc). + +With UDP on the otherhand, you lose the reliable data, but you get your +timeliness. Because of the datagram nature of transmission, you can also +implement independant "streams", with reliablity on some streams (via extra +software layers) and timeliness on others (auto drop of old data for eg). + +Btw, you cannot "design your own layer", because you need to use the +existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP). +However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to +provide "reliable udp" (its almost trivial to do). + +Any, UDP is the only option that is sensible for anything that has time +critical performance or for things with mutliple "data channels". + +BTW, I do stuff like this for a living (I am a network researched for +www.dsto.defence.gov.au), with a fair bit of work in the voice arena, so I +have some experience backing me up here :) + + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Vianney Lecroart" <<A HREF="mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com">lecroart@nevrax.com</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:36 AM +Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + +><i> Hi everybody! +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool +</I>><i> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your +</I>><i> thought and discuss about this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and +</I>server +><i> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of +</I>><i> problem like horrible ping or connection lost: +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297">http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these +</I>problems +><i> here: +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php">https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication, +</I>><i> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and +</I>><i> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And +</I>><i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to +</I>><i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Vianney Lecroart +</I>><i> --- +</I>><i> lead network programmer / nevrax.com +</I>><i> icq#: 6870415 +</I>><i> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +</I>><i> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? +</I>K- +><i> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#489">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#489">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#489">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#489">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000492.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000492.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f548b9c8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000492.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000489.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000494.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Vincent Caron</B> + <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:21:51 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#492">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#492">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#492">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#492">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> Btw, you cannot "design your own layer", because you need to use the +</I>><i> existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP). +</I>><i> However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to +</I>><i> provide "reliable udp" (its almost trivial to do). +</I> +But do you need 'reliable transmission' ? Lost or delayed packets are +part of the rules, couldn't you take this into account in your network +and game code design ? Have a look at the streaming pb and protocols +such as RTP or RTSP, they deal with the pb of 1) time sync and 2) data +loss. This is sometime perfectly acceptable to loose some info in +a game and replace it with interpolated data until getting back in +sync. + +</pre> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#492">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#492">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#492">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#492">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000493.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000493.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..39f73f5b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000493.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000491.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000481.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Zane</B> + <A HREF="mailto:zane%40supernova.org" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">zane@supernova.org</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:59:26 -0700</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#493">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#493">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#493">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#493">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>----- Original Message ----- +From: "Vincent Archer" <<A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A>> +Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 4:57 AM + + +><i> That's priority, and bandwidth management. Not really TCP-vs-UDP relevant. +</I> +Yes, but what I'm saying is knowing that is a feature of the network object +I was discussing further into the message. + +><i> > 2) Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large +</I>><i> > chunk of data +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The latter requires you to look at the semantics of the data, not just the +</I>><i> syntax. You have to posit specific types of data, and, for example, you +</I>><i> don't have to retransmit data type X about object A if it has been already +</I>><i> sent out, but you have to retransmit data type Y about the same object A. +</I> +I don't mean to be confrontational but did you even read the rest of my +message? With the network object I was discussing you pass data to be sent +to the client with Priority and data class. The user of the object sets up +the classes in a manner such that the network object is aware of the classes +(in this case a simple enum would be enough). Here's an example: + +You want to pass property X of object A to the client. You don't care if it +gets there or not. You then pass the data to the network object with a low +priority and a class corresponding to the type of data property X is. + +You want to pass property Y of object A to the client and you need to ensure +that it gets there. You then pass the data to the network object with a +high priority (and no class). + +><i> This quickly require you to tie the protocol to the exact game being made. +</I>><i> A current 3D coordinate/movement vector does not require retransmission +</I>><i> (or, at least, not the retransmission of the same data; you may send back +</I>><i> a more up-to-date version), but it automatically implies your game has +</I>><i> moving 3D objects. +</I> +The network object I described doesn't need to know anything other than data +class and priority. Both of those items are determined by the engine. The +only special knowledge the network object needs is the list of data classes. + +Please re-read my e-mail. + +In case the original wasn't clear enough the object itself decides which +protocol to use based on priority. High priority data would use TCP and low +would use UDP with of course an additional header in the packet. + +-E.J. Wilburn +<A HREF="mailto:zane@supernova.org">zane@supernova.org</A> + + + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#493">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#493">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#493">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#493">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000494.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000494.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5eb1404d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000494.html @@ -0,0 +1,138 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:svferro%40earthlink.net"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000492.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000496.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Sal</B> + <A HREF="mailto:svferro%40earthlink.net" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">svferro@earthlink.net</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:32:46 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#494">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#494">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#494">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#494">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And +</I>><i> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to +</I>><i> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Vianney Lecroart +</I> + I've coded small scale 3d client/server systems in both TCP and UDP +while developing software for Worldforge, and have playtested both systems. +The end result was that UDP gameplay just seemed smoother, especially under +low latency/bad connections. Even when I had inserted code to purposely +drop packets, gameplay was still surprisingly bearable. + + On my LAN or for persons with fast links to the server TCP was not +really noticeably slower, though. So with very low latency, and little +packet loss TCP would be the better choice, but unfortunately that isn't the +case for the internet just yet. A lot of people are behind slow links, +shared internet connections, or in unfortunate locations... for some people +overseas my TCP-based software was almost unplayable, where UDP was still at +least minimally usable. If you guys do end up benchmarking TCP vs. UDP, be +sure to test over a simulated low-latency, and/or 'noisy' link. Drop +packets randomly, simulate possible internet conditions. I'm sure you will +come to the same results I did. + + The majority of problems I've had with UDP are firewall related. And +they were almost all serverside, ie a person trying to run a UDP server +behind a firewall and unable to map ports/etc. to let clients connect. +Clientside, however there was very little trouble, it worked through my +ipmasq firewall without problems, for one, and others had been testing +behind firewalls also. + + However, a bit of 'reinventing TCP' was needed for the reliable data. +This is unavoidable, some messages need to be sent and can't be +ignored/dropped. And I agree that the OS's TCP implementation is probably +more efficient than one drawn up for a video game. But I don't think using +both UDP and TCP is worth the trouble to gain a reliable data transmission +stream. I just don't think the performance improvement would be significant +enough to justify the implementation... Let me explain why I think so. + + Now, say you were sending a 10 MB file over the internet to a friend. +_Every_ packet must make it to the peer or the file would be corrupt. Every +packet must be acknowledged somehow, using some crc, sequence number... etc. +I haven't looked at any actual TCP implementation's source code, but I'll +bet it does all sorts of compromising between packet transmission and +acknowledgement frequency, message sizes, etc. and over the course of +sending 10 Million packets (ok, maybe less for a 10 MB file) it probably +saves a considerable amount of time over some dumb UDP code that +acknowledges say, every 10 packets or some other simplistic mechanism. + + Yes, in that situation, reinventing TCP would be a bad idea... and yes, +it is definately a better choice than UDP, which in fact is why almost every +internet protocol uses TCP. But in our case we aren't sending a 10MB file, +we're sending short messages to tell the client/server something important. +ie a 'player X has died' message, which could be maybe a dozen bytes in +size. All the fancy optimization that an OS's TCP stack does over the course +of time wouldn't be of much use here. Also, in sending a 10MB file you dont +care about latency, and you know what the next few thousand packets are +going to consist of beforehand, whereas in a video game this is not the +case. The optimizations TCP gives you would only take effect if you were +sending large, continuous blocks of data. + + So for the gameplay networking layer I suggest UDP. The only exception +in my opinion is for things like automatic client-patching, or downloading +of media. In that case, having the client make an HTTP connection to a web +server, or something similair is a *much* better choice than using the +'gameplay networking' layer to send this data. + + The software I spoke of here is all in Worldforge's (www.worldforge.org) +CVS repository. The software I tested with was XClient, and XServer, which +are both in CVS. + + The UDP networking library I created and used in XClient/XServer, which +I recommend taking a look at, is called 'XUDP' (not the library that Dave +posted about, but has the same name :-/) is also in Worldforge CVS. I +extracted the UDP networking code from the GPLed Quake1 src, and converted +it into a general C++ OO UDP networking library. It contains code for both +reliable and unreliable transmission of data. Credit should go mostly to +John Carmack of Id software for the code. I just abstracted, and tweaked a +bit for use in an MMORPG setting. It might be helpful if you guys decide to +go with UDP for Nel. + + Anyway, sorry for the long winded rant. Hope this helps some, and keep +up the great work! + +- Sal + + + + + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#494">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#494">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#494">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#494">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000495.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000495.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6f102924 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000495.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Power cut</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000478.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000498.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Power cut</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Power cut">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:10 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#495">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#495">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#495">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#495">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main +trip switch cut out during an electrical storm. +They should be back up now. + +Daniel + + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#495">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#495">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#495">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#495">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a686dffb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000494.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000497.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:44:09 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#496">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#496">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#496">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#496">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>I've been reading this thread with great interest. There's clearly a good +case for using UDP for low priority or short life-span data. In this case +the app software on top of NeL must clearly be designed with the fact that +some data isn't going to get through in mind. + +The problem is particularly interesting because: +1. The limiting factor on the amount of data we transmit looks like being +the cost of output bandwidth for the servers. +- as far as I can ascertain, at today's costs we're looking at something +like 8-16 kilobits per client per second maximum output from the servers +(including lost packets) +2. The complexity of the scenes that we are trying to convey to the clients +is rising fast. +- view distances are increasing, as are screen resolutions which means that +you can see more dynamic world content at any given time (characters, +creatures, objects...) +- It is clear that for MMORPGs we wil soon need to be able to display crouds +or armies of 100s or even 1000s of characters and creatures at once. +- Character animation is becoming more complicated to reflect a mix of +actions performed simultaneously (such as speaking with emotional facial +expression and manipulating an object in one's hands while sitting down) - +which means more information to describe each character's state. +- and so on... + +These two points combined mean that, whichever way one looks at it, a lot of +scene information will have to be filtered out or sent at low frequency. If +one isn't careful low frequency sends can obviously be very sensitive to +packet loss - which leads me to the point of this posting: In order to work +the problem we need to have a good understanding of true internet behaviour +and to have a good set of test data for simulating it. + +The trouble right now is that I have no hard data to use to model packet +loss or delivery latency over time. If anybody knows of any studies that +have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested. In +particular I'm interested in moderately bad connections that exhibit both +good behaviour and bad behaviour over time. + +Regards to all, +Daniel + + + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#496">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#496">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#496">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#496">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3a32b444 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Power cut</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000495.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000502.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Power cut</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40frmug.org" + TITLE="[Nel] Power cut">archer@frmug.org</A><BR> + <I>Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:49:02 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#498">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#498">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#498">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#498">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>According to Daniel Miller: +><i> Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main +</I>><i> trip switch cut out during an electrical storm. +</I>><i> They should be back up now. +</I> +You weren't alone; the mail server I use, which is located 200m as the crow +flies from Nevrax, went down at the same time, and back up... almost at the +same time :) + +-- + Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@frmug.org">archer@frmug.org</A> + +All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates. + (Woody Allen) + +</pre> + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#498">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#498">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#498">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#498">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9b7fc638 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000499.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000478.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Olivier Lejade</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:00:11 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#500">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#500">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#500">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#500">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>At 06:44 PM 7/8/01 +0200, you wrote: +><i>If anybody knows of any studies that +</I>><i>have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested. +</I> +You should absolutely take a look at CiteSeer: +<A HREF="http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs">http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs</A> +There's always tons of interesting stuff in there. + +Or, you could also try the old pfd search: +<A HREF="http://searchpdf.adobe.com/">http://searchpdf.adobe.com/</A> + + + + + + +</pre> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#500">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#500">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#500">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#500">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b5532f2f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000488.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000503.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</H1> + <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] TCP vs. UDP">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:08:53 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#501">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#501">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#501">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#501">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi David, + +><i> BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to +</I>><i> reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it +</I>><i> may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax +</I>><i> on some spare partition to try to "enter the loop". +</I> +Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or +greater +We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to install +external library like STLport and Freetype as explains in the INSTALL +file in the NeL root directory. +We plan to modify the configure.in to enable the compilation without STLport +but +we have to be sure that NeL works compile correctly without STLport! + +Vianney Lecroart +--- +lead network programmer / nevrax.com +icq#: 6870415 +homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K- +w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? + + + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#501">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#501">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#501">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#501">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b331b750 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Login System Game</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000498.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000514.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Login System Game</H1> + <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Login System Game">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:18:55 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#502">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#502">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#502">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#502">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi everybody! + +We just launch our new game! no, no, please, keep cool, it's not THE game, +but a little game for geeks/nerds/hackers :-) + +On the server named itsalive.nevrax.org, we have launch a shard with: +login_service, naming_service, admin_executor_service, admin_service, +time_service, welcome_service and a frontend_service. + +The goal of the game is: to crash/hack everything on this server (and only +this one please ;-) + +We put the real login system to connect to the front end, so one goal is to +successfully connect to the front end *without* login/password +or to find a failure in the login procedure. + +You can find the documentation about how the login system works here: +<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/login_system.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/login_system.html</A> + +In the CVS directory "nel/samples/login_sytem/" +(<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/login_system/">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/login_system/</A>), +you'll find the client source that is used to connect to the shard and +also the frontend service code (that does nothing) that is running on +itsalive. +The client uses a configuration file (client.cfg) that contains the ip +address of the login service +and the login and password you want to provide. If the login doesn't exist, +it will be added to the +database with the password associate to it and the next time, you'll need to +provide the good password +to validate the login. + +All others services sources running on itsalive are located here: +<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nelns/">http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nelns/</A> + +Our goal is know if our login system is robust or not. + +You can do everything you want to crash a service, all services or the +computer but, please, +explain us what you did to enable us to fix the problem! + +Vianney Lecroart +--- +lead network programmer / nevrax.com +icq#: 6870415 +homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K- +w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? + + + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#502">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#502">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#502">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#502">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..deeb13ce --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Linux compiling</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000504.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000506.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Linux compiling</H1> + <B>Vincent Caron</B> + <A HREF="mailto:v.caron%40zerodeux.net" + TITLE="[Nel] Linux compiling">v.caron@zerodeux.net</A><BR> + <I>Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:45:21 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#505">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#505">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#505">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#505">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Ed Landa wrote: +><i> +</I>><i> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in +</I>><i> one section. It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug, so +</I>><i> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem: +</I> +Be sure to use the latest beta labeled '0619', it fixes some nasty bugs +of the 4.5b7 (<A HREF="http://www.stlport.org/beta/STLport-0619.tar.gz">http://www.stlport.org/beta/STLport-0619.tar.gz</A>). + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#505">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#505">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#505">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#505">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c8db7826 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000505.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000489.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</H1> + <B>Cyril Corvazier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:32:00 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#506">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#506">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#506">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#506">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi, + +This error is a NeL compilation error, not a STLport version problem. +This should be fixed now. Thanks for the report. + +Regards, + +Cyril Corvazier +Lead 3d programmer +Nevrax France + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Ed Landa" <<A HREF="mailto:elanda@xeme.com">elanda@xeme.com</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 7:34 PM +Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP) + + +><i> > Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or +</I>><i> > greater +</I>><i> > We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to +</I>install +><i> +</I>><i> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in +</I>><i> one section. It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug, +</I>so +><i> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> (this isn't pretty, but it looks to me like it is trying to make a STL +</I>call +><i> that doesn't exist) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> $ rpm -q gcc +</I>><i> gcc-2.96-85 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d' +</I>><i> /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile +</I>c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/ +><i> +</I>code/nel/src/3d -I../../include -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/inclu +de/s +><i> +</I>tlport -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/ +X11R +><i> 6/include -c tile_bank.cpp +</I>><i> rm -f .libs/tile_bank.lo +</I>><i> +</I>c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d -I../../include - +I/us +><i> +</I>r/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/include/stlport -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/s +rc - +><i> +</I>Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/tile_bank.pp - +c ti +><i> le_bank.cpp -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/tile_bank.lo +</I>><i> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h: In method `void +</I>><i> NLMISC::IStream::serialSTLContLen (T &, int) [with T = +</I>><i> _STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string> >]': +</I>><i> tile_bank.cpp:616: instantiated from here +</I>><i> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h:570: no matching function for call to +</I>><i> `_STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string> +</I>><i> >::insert (_STL::_Rb_tree_iterator<string, _STL::_Const_traits<string> +</I>><i> >)' +</I>><i> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:134: candidates are: +</I>><i> _STL::pair<typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, +</I>><i> _Compare, _Alloc>::const_iterator, bool> _STL::set<_Key, _Compare, +</I>><i> _Alloc>::insert (const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare = +</I>><i> _STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>] +</I>><i> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:139: typename +</I>><i> _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare, +</I>><i> _Alloc>::const_iterator _STL::set<_Key, _Compare, _Alloc>::insert +</I>><i> (typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare, +</I>><i> _Alloc>::const_iterator, const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare = +</I>><i> _STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>] +</I>><i> make[1]: *** [tile_bank.lo] Error 1 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Also, I've put together a .spec file for making a STLport RPM. If anyone +</I>wants +><i> it, just drop me a line. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Ed +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#506">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#506">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#506">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#506">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..251b44f2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball client trouble</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:xordoquy%40aurora-linux.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000518.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000508.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowball client trouble</H1> + <B>Xavier Ordoquy</B> + <A HREF="mailto:xordoquy%40aurora-linux.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowball client trouble">xordoquy@aurora-linux.com</A><BR> + <I>13 Jul 2001 12:23:08 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#507">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#507">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#507">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#507">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi, + +I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2 +When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet +size. +I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't +connect it and tries to reach the default serveur. +How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg +file ?) + +Thanks. + +-- + Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux + If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question. + Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does. + (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal) + + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#507">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#507">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#507">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#507">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9a86eca2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball client trouble</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000507.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000510.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowball client trouble</H1> + <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowball client trouble">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:48:31 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#508">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#508">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#508">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#508">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi Xavier, + +I think you should try to install it on NT ;-) nice signature + +Snowballs 0.2 is really deprecated and you should wait the next week for +Snowball 2! + +Anyway, it's in the client.cfg file that you specify where the server is: +LSHost = "localhost"; +If you put this in the client.cfg, the client will connect to your localhost +login system + +Vianney Lecroart +--- +lead network programmer / nevrax.com +icq#: 6870415 +homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K- +w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? + +----- Original Message ----- +From: "Xavier Ordoquy" <<A HREF="mailto:xordoquy@aurora-linux.com">xordoquy@aurora-linux.com</A>> +To: <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:23 PM +Subject: [Nel] Snowball client trouble + + +><i> Hi, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2 +</I>><i> When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet +</I>><i> size. +</I>><i> I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't +</I>><i> connect it and tries to reach the default serveur. +</I>><i> How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg +</I>><i> file ?) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Thanks. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux +</I>><i> If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question. +</I>><i> Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does. +</I>><i> (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> _______________________________________________ +</I>><i> Nel mailing list +</I>><i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I>><i> +</I> + +</pre> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#508">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#508">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#508">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#508">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dc7edaf9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html @@ -0,0 +1,154 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] www.nevrax.org down</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000510.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000512.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] www.nevrax.org down">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:52:18 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#511">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#511">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#511">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#511">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Thanks for the message. +For info, the server is up and we have access to the outside world so I'm +not quite sure what's goign on. +Colt is our ISP - we're following it up. + +Regards +Daniel + +-----Original Message----- +From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of +<A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> +Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:00 PM +To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> +Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down + + +I can't reach www.nevrax.org. +When i ping it i get: +Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit. + +When i traceroute i get: +pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org +traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets + 1 c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1) 7.8 ms 14.56 ms +9.447 ms + 2 gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91) 8.156 ms 8.703 ms 8.476 ms + 3 213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5) 9.117 ms 17.592 ms 16.453 ms + 4 * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210) 9.436 ms 12.343 ms + 5 213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205) 34.315 ms 46.031 ms * + 6 * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69) 43.049 ms + 7 fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74) 43.536 ms +43.382 ms + 48.619 ms + 8 fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22) 49.991 ms + 45.381 +ms 48.53 ms + 9 213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30) 46.188 ms 46.096 ms 52.818 ms +10 fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53) 49.037 ms + 52.145 +ms 60.492 ms +11 colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224) 48.797 ms * +48.3 ms +12 relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209) 50.71 ms 47.67 ms + 55.997 +ms +13 relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206) 48.739 ms +53.683 ms + 47.798 ms +14 relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61) 48.363 ms +69.684 ms + 59.31 ms +15 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 78.627 ms 76.116 +ms 93.71 +3 ms +16 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 72.892 ms * 203.14 ms +17 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 86.043 ms 85.756 +ms 81.68 +2 ms +18 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 83.823 ms 82.836 ms +85.816 ms +19 * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 100.03 ms +100.501 ms +20 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 99.883 ms 108.619 ms +115.294 ms +21 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 112.519 ms 131.176 +ms 135 +.302 ms +22 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 110.856 ms 117.394 ms +116.263 m +s +23 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 131.426 ms 129.002 +ms 132 +.275 ms +24 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 132.29 ms 126.232 ms +131.91 ms +25 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 143.837 ms 145.277 +ms 143 +.39 ms +26 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 141.688 ms 144.001 ms +142.631 m +s +27 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 160.698 ms 160.527 +ms 160 +.689 ms +28 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 161.402 ms 158.537 ms +158.716 m +s +29 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 176.744 ms 179.256 +ms 175 +.634 ms +30 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 177.412 ms 178.237 ms +174.412 ms + +It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between +relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net. +Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking? + +/David + +_______________________________________________ +Nel mailing list +<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> + + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#511">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#511">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#511">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#511">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..08b37bc6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] www.nevrax.org down</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000511.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000513.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</H1> + <B>Brenden Towey</B> + <A HREF="mailto:brenden%40rcsis.com" + TITLE="[Nel] www.nevrax.org down">brenden@rcsis.com</A><BR> + <I>Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:02:18 -0700</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#512">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#512">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#512">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#512">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com). + +I didn't get a traceroute... + +Brenden + +-----Original Message----- +From: <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> <<A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>> +To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM +Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down + + +><i>I can't reach www.nevrax.org. +</I>><i>When i ping it i get: +</I>><i>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit. +</I>><i> +</I>><i>When i traceroute i get: +</I>><i>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org +</I>><i>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets +</I>><i> 1 c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1) 7.8 ms 14.56 ms +</I>><i>9.447 ms +</I>><i> 2 gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91) 8.156 ms 8.703 ms 8.476 ms +</I>><i> 3 213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5) 9.117 ms 17.592 ms 16.453 ms +</I>><i> 4 * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210) 9.436 ms 12.343 ms +</I>><i> 5 213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205) 34.315 ms 46.031 ms * +</I>><i> 6 * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69) 43.049 ms +</I>><i> 7 fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74) 43.536 ms +</I>><i>43.382 ms +</I>><i> 48.619 ms +</I>><i> 8 fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22) 49.991 ms +</I>><i> 45.381 +</I>><i>ms 48.53 ms +</I>><i> 9 213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30) 46.188 ms 46.096 ms 52.818 ms +</I>><i>10 fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53) 49.037 ms +</I>><i> 52.145 +</I>><i>ms 60.492 ms +</I>><i>11 colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224) 48.797 ms * +</I>><i>48.3 ms +</I>><i>12 relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209) 50.71 ms 47.67 ms +</I>><i> 55.997 +</I>><i>ms +</I>><i>13 relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206) 48.739 ms +</I>><i>53.683 ms +</I>><i> 47.798 ms +</I>><i>14 relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61) 48.363 ms +</I>><i>69.684 ms +</I>><i> 59.31 ms +</I>><i>15 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 78.627 ms 76.116 +</I>><i>ms 93.71 +</I>><i>3 ms +</I>><i>16 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 72.892 ms * 203.14 ms +</I>><i>17 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 86.043 ms 85.756 +</I>><i>ms 81.68 +</I>><i>2 ms +</I>><i>18 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 83.823 ms 82.836 ms +</I>><i>85.816 ms +</I>><i>19 * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 100.03 ms +</I>><i>100.501 ms +</I>><i>20 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 99.883 ms 108.619 ms +</I>><i>115.294 ms +</I>><i>21 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 112.519 ms 131.176 +</I>><i>ms 135 +</I>><i>.302 ms +</I>><i>22 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 110.856 ms 117.394 ms +</I>><i>116.263 m +</I>><i>s +</I>><i>23 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 131.426 ms 129.002 +</I>><i>ms 132 +</I>><i>.275 ms +</I>><i>24 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 132.29 ms 126.232 ms +</I>><i>131.91 ms +</I>><i>25 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 143.837 ms 145.277 +</I>><i>ms 143 +</I>><i>.39 ms +</I>><i>26 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 141.688 ms 144.001 ms +</I>><i>142.631 m +</I>><i>s +</I>><i>27 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 160.698 ms 160.527 +</I>><i>ms 160 +</I>><i>.689 ms +</I>><i>28 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 161.402 ms 158.537 ms +</I>><i>158.716 m +</I>><i>s +</I>><i>29 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 176.744 ms 179.256 +</I>><i>ms 175 +</I>><i>.634 ms +</I>><i>30 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 177.412 ms 178.237 ms +</I>><i>174.412 ms +</I>><i> +</I>><i>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between +</I>><i>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net. +</I>><i>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking? +</I>><i> +</I>><i>/David +</I>><i> +</I>><i>_______________________________________________ +</I>><i>Nel mailing list +</I>><i><A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I> + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#512">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#512">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#512">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#512">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0141dad6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html @@ -0,0 +1,171 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] www.nevrax.org down</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000512.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</H1> + <B>Daniel Miller</B> + <A HREF="mailto:miller%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] www.nevrax.org down">miller@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:36:40 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#513">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#513">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#513">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#513">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Thanks for the info. +If anyone else has trouble it would be much appreciated if you could let us +know. + +Regards to all, +Daniel + + +-----Original Message----- +From: <A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A> [mailto:<A HREF="mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org">nel-admin@nevrax.org</A>]On Behalf Of +Brenden Towey +Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:02 AM +To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> +Subject: Re: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down + + +Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com). + +I didn't get a traceroute... + +Brenden + +-----Original Message----- +From: <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> <<A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>> +To: <A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> <<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>> +Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM +Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down + + +><i>I can't reach www.nevrax.org. +</I>><i>When i ping it i get: +</I>><i>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit. +</I>><i> +</I>><i>When i traceroute i get: +</I>><i>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org +</I>><i>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets +</I>><i> 1 c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1) 7.8 ms 14.56 ms +</I>><i>9.447 ms +</I>><i> 2 gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91) 8.156 ms 8.703 ms 8.476 ms +</I>><i> 3 213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5) 9.117 ms 17.592 ms 16.453 ms +</I>><i> 4 * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210) 9.436 ms 12.343 ms +</I>><i> 5 213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205) 34.315 ms 46.031 ms * +</I>><i> 6 * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69) 43.049 ms +</I>><i> 7 fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74) 43.536 ms +</I>><i>43.382 ms +</I>><i> 48.619 ms +</I>><i> 8 fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22) 49.991 ms +</I>><i> 45.381 +</I>><i>ms 48.53 ms +</I>><i> 9 213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30) 46.188 ms 46.096 ms 52.818 ms +</I>><i>10 fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53) 49.037 ms +</I>><i> 52.145 +</I>><i>ms 60.492 ms +</I>><i>11 colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224) 48.797 ms * +</I>><i>48.3 ms +</I>><i>12 relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209) 50.71 ms 47.67 ms +</I>><i> 55.997 +</I>><i>ms +</I>><i>13 relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206) 48.739 ms +</I>><i>53.683 ms +</I>><i> 47.798 ms +</I>><i>14 relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61) 48.363 ms +</I>><i>69.684 ms +</I>><i> 59.31 ms +</I>><i>15 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 78.627 ms 76.116 +</I>><i>ms 93.71 +</I>><i>3 ms +</I>><i>16 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 72.892 ms * 203.14 ms +</I>><i>17 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 86.043 ms 85.756 +</I>><i>ms 81.68 +</I>><i>2 ms +</I>><i>18 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 83.823 ms 82.836 ms +</I>><i>85.816 ms +</I>><i>19 * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 100.03 ms +</I>><i>100.501 ms +</I>><i>20 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 99.883 ms 108.619 ms +</I>><i>115.294 ms +</I>><i>21 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 112.519 ms 131.176 +</I>><i>ms 135 +</I>><i>.302 ms +</I>><i>22 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 110.856 ms 117.394 ms +</I>><i>116.263 m +</I>><i>s +</I>><i>23 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 131.426 ms 129.002 +</I>><i>ms 132 +</I>><i>.275 ms +</I>><i>24 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 132.29 ms 126.232 ms +</I>><i>131.91 ms +</I>><i>25 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 143.837 ms 145.277 +</I>><i>ms 143 +</I>><i>.39 ms +</I>><i>26 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 141.688 ms 144.001 ms +</I>><i>142.631 m +</I>><i>s +</I>><i>27 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 160.698 ms 160.527 +</I>><i>ms 160 +</I>><i>.689 ms +</I>><i>28 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 161.402 ms 158.537 ms +</I>><i>158.716 m +</I>><i>s +</I>><i>29 relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2) 176.744 ms 179.256 +</I>><i>ms 175 +</I>><i>.634 ms +</I>><i>30 gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1) 177.412 ms 178.237 ms +</I>><i>174.412 ms +</I>><i> +</I>><i>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between +</I>><i>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net. +</I>><i>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking? +</I>><i> +</I>><i>/David +</I>><i> +</I>><i>_______________________________________________ +</I>><i>Nel mailing list +</I>><i><A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +</I>><i><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> +</I> +_______________________________________________ +Nel mailing list +<A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A> +<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A> + + +</pre> + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#513">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#513">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#513">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#513">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..85413bdf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball 2.0?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000516.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000518.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</H1> + <B>Vianney Lecroart</B> + <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowball 2.0?">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:14:50 +0200</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#517">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#517">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#517">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#517">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hello Tony, + +><i> I'm curious as to the progress of SnowBall and it's compatability with +</I>><i> the latest version of nel. +</I> +The Snowball is out of date. It doesn't compile with NeL since we change lot +of things in the user interface. We (Cedric Valignat, Benjamin Legros and I) +work on the new snowball called Snowballs2. In this version, we rewrite +everything from scratch (except lens flare and radar) with the current NeL +interface. There's a simple (14 cpp files) client explain how to use NeL. +It uses lot of stuffs from NeL like Particule system, Animation, Skeleton, +Skinning, Landscape, Collision, Network, etc... +So it will be a good tutorial or starting point to use NeL. +We plan to release it soon (before the end of the next week) and we actually +work on the server side and 3d datas integration. + +><i> Has the team stableized things in the +</I>><i> interface to a point where a new version could be done or should we see +</I>><i> more inteface re-defineing changes in the future that could strongly +</I>><i> affect any projects desired to be based off of it? +</I> +The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We +plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current +user interface doesn't change often anyway. + +><i> Also, how's the progress on the 3d rendering engine? At home I have a +</I>><i> p3 800 but only a tnt2 ultra video card with 32mb ram. Will nel +</I>><i> eventually be developed to support that weak a model of graphics card? +</I> +><i> At least there should be some options of disableing a lot of 'special +</I>><i> affects' to help speed up the game in question. And we all know that it +</I>><i> should be able to deal with 100 active actors on screen at one time. +</I>><i> (Stress test) But how possable does that look in the near future? +</I> +I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :) + +Vianney Lecroart +--- +lead network programmer / nevrax.com +icq#: 6870415 +homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> +www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K- +w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y? + + + + +</pre> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#517">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#517">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#517">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#517">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..561c12f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Snowball 2.0?</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000517.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000507.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</H1> + <B>Tony Hoyt</B> + <A HREF="mailto:ahoyt%40packetport.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Snowball 2.0?">ahoyt@packetport.com</A><BR> + <I>Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:43:46 -0400</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#518">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#518">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#518">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#518">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Vianney Lecroart wrote: + + I've read some of the logs to this newsgroup so I knew about the +issues with the current SnowBall. I would like to give NEL a try but I +was hopeing a more full version example would help me more :-) But yes, +i'll look at the tutorials some more to see how this sdk works. + +><i> The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We +</I>><i> plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current +</I>><i> user interface doesn't change often anyway. +</I> + I'm a little confused here. Basicly what I want to know is, if I +write code for nel now, how strong is the possablity of me having to +re-write that code to take into the count of changes in function +definitions? now i know the code must evolve and change, but if I start +writing an application with the sdk, and every two months i need to make +major revisions to keep up with the latest and greatest, I may pause +some before starting development. How possable is it to see a lock on +the headers? + +><i> I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :) +</I> + Also, anyone hear about this new technology Verant Interactive is +going to be using for EQ1.5? (ie, the upcomeing expansion) I hear it's +supposed to help make online games work a hell of a lot faster. But +what is it? + + Tony + +</pre> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#518">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#518">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#518">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#518">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0320d443 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Author</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-July Archives by Author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 64<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="514"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="484"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="485"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="490"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="491"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="498"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="463"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="492"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="505"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="506"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="515"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="497"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="480"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="516"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="518"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="504"></A><I>Ed Landa</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="477"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="501"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="502"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="508"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="517"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="474"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="475"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</A> <A NAME="476"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="500"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="488"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="503"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="464"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="470"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="495"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="496"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="511"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="513"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="457"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="460"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="469"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="478"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="507"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="494"></A><I>Sal</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="462"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="471"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="473"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="481"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="479"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="483"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="512"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="465"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="466"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="482"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="456"></A><I>Debian User</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="467"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="468"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="472"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="454"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="486"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="487"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="493"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="489"></A><I>alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="499"></A><I>alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="510"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="459"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="458"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="455"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="461"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b3fd8e2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Date</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-July Archives by Date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 64<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="454"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="455"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="456"></A><I>Debian User</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="457"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="458"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="459"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="460"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="461"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="462"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="463"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="464"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="465"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="466"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="467"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="468"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="469"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="470"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="471"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="472"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="473"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="474"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="475"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</A> <A NAME="476"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="477"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="478"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="479"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="480"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="481"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="482"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="483"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="484"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="485"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="486"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="487"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="488"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="489"></A><I>alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="490"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="491"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="492"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="493"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="494"></A><I>Sal</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="495"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="496"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="497"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="498"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="499"></A><I>alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="500"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="501"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="502"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="503"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="504"></A><I>Ed Landa</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="505"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="506"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="507"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="508"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="510"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="511"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="512"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="513"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="514"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="515"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="516"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="517"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="518"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b1127deb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,221 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Thread</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-July Archives by Thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 64<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 00993939044- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1364"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993939044-00993976343- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1366"></A><I>Debian User</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1367"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1372"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1378"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1379"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472-00994146708- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1380"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1381"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584-00994159869- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1382"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994087256- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1377"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993975812- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1365"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993975812-00994006630- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1368"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994010505- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1369"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994010505-00994010890- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1370"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--1 00994010505-00994018077- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1371"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994061643- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1373"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I> +<!--0 00994077143- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1374"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--0 00994079100- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1375"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<!--0 00994084962- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1376"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<!--0 00994230942- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1383"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994230942-00994250592- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1385"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994248614- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="1384"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<!--0 00994251712- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</A> <A NAME="1386"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<!--0 00994340207- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1387"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994341613- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1389"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<!--1 00994340207-00994341615- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1390"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1394"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1396"></A><I>Zane</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1401"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044-00994442366- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1403"></A><I>Zane</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994341774- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1391"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994341774-00994344339- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1393"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994342487- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1392"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<!--1 00994340207-00994345482- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1395"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1397"></A><I>Zane</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307-00994416533- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1400"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994402499- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1398"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1411"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994832620- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1413"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1414"></A><I>Ed Landa</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994884321- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="1415"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994919520- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1416"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994408910- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1399"></A><I>alfred</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994408910-00994440111- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1402"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994455166- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1404"></A><I>Sal</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1406"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1407"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684-00994660029- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1409"></A><I>alfred</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994672811- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1410"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00994341567- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1388"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--0 00994600510- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1405"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994600510-00994618142- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1408"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994781935- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="1412"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994781935-00995377919- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1424"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1425"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1426"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1427"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890-00995546626- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1428"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00995016188- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1417"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00995016188-00995021311- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1418"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00995187624- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1420"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00995187624-00995302338- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1421"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00995335338- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1422"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00995335338-00995351800- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1423"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d06f4599 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Subject</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-July Archives by Subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 64<p> + <ul> + +<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="455"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="458"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="459"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="460"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="461"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="464"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="454"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="456"></A><I>Debian User</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="465"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="474"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="463"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="466"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</A> <A NAME="476"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="473"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="475"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="505"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="504"></A><I>Ed Landa</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="506"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="502"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="514"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="515"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="495"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="498"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="516"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="517"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="518"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="507"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="508"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="457"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="462"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="467"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="468"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="469"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="470"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="471"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="472"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="477"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="478"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="479"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="480"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="481"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="482"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="484"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="485"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="486"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="487"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="488"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="489"></A><I>alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="490"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="491"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="492"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="493"></A><I>Zane</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="494"></A><I>Sal</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="496"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="497"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="499"></A><I>alfred</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="500"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="501"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="503"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="510"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="511"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="512"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="513"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="483"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b1127deb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,221 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Nel 2001-July Archive by Thread</title> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>2001-July Archives by Thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 64<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 00993939044- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000454.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1364"></A><I>Michael Warnock</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993939044-00993976343- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000456.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1366"></A><I>Debian User</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000457.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1367"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000462.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1372"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000468.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1378"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000469.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1379"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994093472-00994146708- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000470.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1380"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000471.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1381"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994054247-00994089897-00994152584-00994159869- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000472.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1382"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +<!--3 00993939044-00993976343-00994001644-00994087256- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000467.html">[Nel] Snowballs building problem</A> <A NAME="1377"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00993975812- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000455.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1365"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00993975812-00994006630- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000458.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1368"></A><I>elijah wright</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994010505- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000459.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1369"></A><I>stephane.craux@voila.fr</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994010505-00994010890- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000460.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1370"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--1 00994010505-00994018077- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000461.html">[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1371"></A><I>x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994061643- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000463.html">[Nel] culling and transforms</A> <A NAME="1373"></A><I>Lionel Berenguier</I> +<!--0 00994077143- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000464.html">[Nel] A bit of news</A> <A NAME="1374"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<!--0 00994079100- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000465.html">[Nel] Congratulations + concerns</A> <A NAME="1375"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<!--0 00994084962- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000466.html">[Nel] Game Rules</A> <A NAME="1376"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<!--0 00994230942- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000473.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1383"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994230942-00994250592- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000475.html">[Nel] Italian NeL community</A> <A NAME="1385"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994248614- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000474.html">[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL</A> <A NAME="1384"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<!--0 00994251712- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000476.html">[Nel] GPL & Nevrax</A> <A NAME="1386"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +<!--0 00994340207- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000477.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1387"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994341613- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000479.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1389"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +<!--1 00994340207-00994341615- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000480.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1390"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000484.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1394"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000486.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1396"></A><I>Zane</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000491.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1401"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994341615-00994344631-00994349289-00994417044-00994442366- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000493.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1403"></A><I>Zane</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994341774- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000481.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1391"></A><I>Valerio Santinelli</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994341774-00994344339- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000483.html">Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1393"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994342487- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000482.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1392"></A><I>Dave Turner</I> +<!--1 00994340207-00994345482- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000485.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1395"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000487.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1397"></A><I>Zane</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994345482-00994356307-00994416533- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000490.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1400"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994402499- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000488.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1398"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000501.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1411"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994832620- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000503.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1413"></A><I>David Mentre</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000504.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1414"></A><I>Ed Landa</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994884321- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000505.html">[Nel] Linux compiling</A> <A NAME="1415"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994402499-00994774133-00994869278-00994919520- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000506.html">[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)</A> <A NAME="1416"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994408910- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000489.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1399"></A><I>alfred</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994408910-00994440111- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000492.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1402"></A><I>Vincent Caron</I> +</UL> +<!--1 00994340207-00994455166- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000494.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1404"></A><I>Sal</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000496.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1406"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000497.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1407"></A><I>John Cosby</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994609684-00994660029- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000499.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1409"></A><I>alfred</I> +<!--3 00994340207-00994455166-00994607049-00994672811- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000500.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1410"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00994341567- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000478.html">[Nel] TCP vs. UDP</A> <A NAME="1388"></A><I>Yann Morvan</I> +<!--0 00994600510- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000495.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1405"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994600510-00994618142- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000498.html">[Nel] Power cut</A> <A NAME="1408"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00994781935- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000502.html">[Nel] Login System Game</A> <A NAME="1412"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00994781935-00995377919- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000514.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1424"></A><I>=?iso-8859-1?q?Julien?=</I> +<UL> +<!--2 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000515.html">[Nel] pacs</A> <A NAME="1425"></A><I>Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier</I> +<UL> +<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000516.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1426"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000517.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1427"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +<!--3 00994781935-00995377919-00995540643-00995542204-00995544890-00995546626- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000518.html">[Nel] Snowball 2.0?</A> <A NAME="1428"></A><I>Tony Hoyt</I> +</UL> +</UL> +</UL> +<!--0 00995016188- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000507.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1417"></A><I>Xavier Ordoquy</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00995016188-00995021311- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000508.html">[Nel] Snowball client trouble</A> <A NAME="1418"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00995187624- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000510.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1420"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00995187624-00995302338- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000511.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1421"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +</UL> +<!--0 00995335338- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000512.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1422"></A><I>Brenden Towey</I> +<UL> +<!--1 00995335338-00995351800- --> +<LI> <A HREF="000513.html">[Nel] www.nevrax.org down</A> <A NAME="1423"></A><I>Daniel Miller</I> +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |