From 0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: neodarz Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 20:21:34 +0200 Subject: Initial commit --- pipermail/nel/2000-December/000075.html | 55 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000076.html | 67 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000077.html | 90 +++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000078.html | 80 +++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000079.html | 71 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000080.html | 51 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000081.html | 95 +++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000082.html | 75 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000083.html | 72 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000084.html | 89 +++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000085.html | 74 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/000086.html | 76 +++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/author.html | 57 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/date.html | 57 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/index.html | 79 +++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/subject.html | 57 ++ pipermail/nel/2000-December/thread.html | 79 +++ 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pipermail/nel/2002-February/thread.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2002-January/author.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2002-January/date.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2002-January/subject.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2002-January/thread.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2002-March/date.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2002-March/subject.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2002-March/thread.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/index.html (limited to 'pipermail/nel') diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000075.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000075.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2d4ac8d5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000075.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] Server on GNU/Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] Server on GNU/Linux

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:09:23 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello everybody,
+
+At least it comes, you should be able to get something to compile and running
+under GNU/Linux platforms ...
+
+Checkout the INSTALL file, it will show you the path to follow :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000076.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000076.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f887eac0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000076.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ Jean-Noel Moyne + jnmoyne@tibco.com
+ Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:53:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
Just had a look at your site and your project because my brother is
+going to work with you guys (as a graphic artist). I see that you have
+need for fast reliable real-time asynchronous (and probably one to many)
+network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+server communication, not server to client.
+
+You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+
+While TIBCO makes a complete messaging system that will use PGM and that
+is a commercial product, we are also releasing an Open Source version of
+the PGM protocol stack (which is probably all you need, and all you
+would want to use, being an Open Source project yourself).
+
+As a suggestion from a network professional with a lot of experience
+designing large scale scalable real time oriented distributed systems,
+you should take a look at it.
+
+http://pgm.tibco.com/
+
+    JNM
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000077.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000077.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e1f2e748 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000077.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:39:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello !
+Just one question.
+
+>From http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt
+>>> PGM runs over a datagram multicast protocol such as IP multicast [5].
+
+AFAIK, many ISP's ban multicast traffic and many users'll be unable to use
+software based on it.
+Am I wrong or missing something ?
+TIA
+
+--
+Dim
+
+
+Jean-Noel Moyne wrote:
+
+> Just had a look at your site and your project because my brother is
+> going to work with you guys (as a graphic artist). I see that you have
+> need for fast reliable real-time asynchronous (and probably one to many)
+> network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+> server communication, not server to client.
+>
+> You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+> protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+> design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+>
+> While TIBCO makes a complete messaging system that will use PGM and that
+> is a commercial product, we are also releasing an Open Source version of
+> the PGM protocol stack (which is probably all you need, and all you
+> would want to use, being an Open Source project yourself).
+>
+> As a suggestion from a network professional with a lot of experience
+> designing large scale scalable real time oriented distributed systems,
+> you should take a look at it.
+>
+> http://pgm.tibco.com/
+>
+>     JNM
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000078.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000078.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e1cfefb6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000078.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:08:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Jean-Noel Moyne:
+> You should have a look at PGM, which is an open reliable multicast
+> protocol designed by Cisco and TIBCO (the company I work for), which is
+> design to solve just this kind of problems in the most efficient way.
+
+Hmmm, about everyone around started talking about, then dismissing it
+as unsuited to our needs, but that's chiefly due to one misunderstanding.
+
+At first we didn't see the "server to server" sentence.
+
+We still don't know how well multicasting can be useful in our server
+architecture, because so far, we have very few one-to-many messages
+across servers. Most services discuss with a specific target on a specific
+service.
+
+However, we still have lots of discussion for the "world service",
+i.e. the service which "simulates" the world and run the various objects
+and NPC agents. That one might be a candidate for a multicast protocol,
+since we can expect replication of objects across multiple world services.
+
+This tie in with another question which I didn't had time to reply to,
+regarding how to "split" the world across the multiple world services.
+If the split is done by geography (the UO model), then there is little
+need of a PGM-based protocol, because most objects will be accessed by
+2 world services (edges), or at most 3 (T-intersections). However, if the
+split is done instead by reference (i.e. we cluster an agent with the
+agents that refer to it more often), then we have a higher redundancy
+of agents on servers, and a multicast is probably the best method to
+send message to these agents.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000079.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000079.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a10bb898 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000079.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:11:10 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Dim Segebart:
+> Hello !
+> Just one question.
+> 
+> >From http://pgm.tibco.com/draft-speakman-pgm-spec-04.txt
+> >>> PGM runs over a datagram multicast protocol such as IP multicast [5].
+> 
+> AFAIK, many ISP's ban multicast traffic and many users'll be unable to use
+> software based on it.
+> Am I wrong or missing something ?
+> TIA
+
+And Jean-Noel Moyne said:
+> network transport for your messaging. That need being for server to
+> server communication, not server to client.
+
+Note "server to server". What Jean-Noel was suggesting was not a protocol
+to communicate with the clients, but a protocol to communicate between
+the various servers that constitute a world cluster.
+
+Since these clusters will be located in a single facility, on a dedicated
+switch, the issue of IP filtering do not apply :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000080.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000080.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..31b1bb0e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000080.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:13:59 +0100 (MET) +

+
+ +
> At first we didn't see the "server to server" sentence.
+
+Ok, I have a dummy question, but when it is better to have multicast 
+to a server delivering the messages to the rest of servers?
+
+How portable/compatible is mulitcast technology?
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000081.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000081.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cc2d1ea2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000081.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:37:00 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+> > At first we didn't see the "server to server" sentence.
+> 
+> Ok, I have a dummy question, but when it is better to have multicast 
+> to a server delivering the messages to the rest of servers?
+
+Quite simple: When you need to send the same message to more than one
+server. As soon as you need to send a message to multiple servers,
+you will tie up bandwidth and CPU resending the same message over and over
+to each server.
+
+Consider the following model. Each agent (which represent an object, NPC,
+PC, the door, the lamp, whatever entity in your world) is represented
+typically by an object in a "world service process". Once your world
+becomes large, you need multiple processes. What happens when an agent
+want to "talk" to another agent on a different process. The agent, in an
+ideal (and OO) world, merely talks to an object located in its process
+space, said object being either the recipient agent itself, or merely a
+replica, which will forward the message across the network to the real
+agent.
+
+You don't need multicast for that: its straight 1-to-1.
+
+However, what if the message is "what is your current XYZ". That's a fairly
+frequent question. If you need to query across the network, you'll quickly
+end up loading the net, just to find the value three variables.
+
+That's where PGM/multicast intervenes. In that model, the agent, when he
+changes some of his variables, notifies the replica that "XYZ are now...".
+I spoke about how the world services organise where an agent resides. In
+some models, you have about one, maybe two replicas, which you can notify
+using a standard TCP stream. Or RDP. But, if you want a load-balancing
+system, you quickly end up with a replica of an object in most world
+service processes. It becomes then more efficient to multicast the updates
+as above to all processes, and update them all in one sweep.
+
+> How portable/compatible is mulitcast technology?
+
+Multicast is working, right now. However, to work across separate networks,
+it requires specific support from IP routers, and resources, which most
+providers aren't willing to dedicate (multi-network multicast is mostly
+used for video/audio "broadcasts", video conferencing or shows).
+
+As for PGM, well, the current library has lots of empty directories and
+"TODO" notes in comments, so it's clearly a work in progress :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000082.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000082.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aa9812a0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000082.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:48:18 +0100 (MET) +

+
+ +
> That's where PGM/multicast intervenes. In that model, the agent, 
+when he
+> changes some of his variables, notifies the replica that "XYZ are 
+now...".
+> I spoke about how the world services organise where an agent 
+resides. In
+> some models, you have about one, maybe two replicas, which you can 
+notify
+> using a standard TCP stream. Or RDP. But, if you want a 
+load-balancing
+> system, you quickly end up with a replica of an object in most world
+> service processes. It becomes then more efficient to multicast the 
+updates
+> as above to all processes, and update them all in one sweep.
+
+Ok, I always have though of load balancing as load-work division 
+between servers.
+
+I think that the above kind of working can have several inconsistences 
+, just take a look to some distributed Mutual exclusion algos.
+
+Just imagine that both copies of a object multicast different 
+positions, you have to choose what is the best one, and whatever your 
+choose is, it will be wrong, and servers can't be wrong.
+
+Replycating work can be a real pain.
+And for what you have said multicast isn't a solution for end-users.
+
+I think that IPv6 will fix these things, by having a multicast in the 
+standart, isn't it?
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000083.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000083.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6a8ba32a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000083.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:11:26 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+> Just imagine that both copies of a object multicast different 
+> positions, you have to choose what is the best one, and whatever your 
+> choose is, it will be wrong, and servers can't be wrong.
+
+Ahem, no. I might have used object and agent in various contexts, but
+an agent is the only one which is authorised to change its state. The
+other objects are "replica", or passive objects. Each agent may exist
+only as a single copy over the set of processes, and he is the entity
+responsible for updating the local states of the replica objects in
+the other processes.
+
+If you want "what is your XYZ", the local replica answers. However, if
+you want "teleport to XYZ", the message is transmitted across the network
+to the unique agent, which updates its internal state, and then retransmits
+to all replicas "set internal state XYZ". And the latter is when multicast
+helps when there are many replicas to update.
+
+> Replycating work can be a real pain.
+
+Hey, if I could buy a terahertz processor and have everything run on a
+single process, I'd be happy too :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000084.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000084.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0d5d29f9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000084.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ + + + + [Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture + + + + + + +

[Nel] Suggestion for the NeL network library / architecture

+ MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:32 +0100 (MET) +

+
+ +
> Ahem, no. I might have used object and agent in various contexts, 
+but
+> an agent is the only one which is authorised to change its state. 
+The
+> other objects are "replica", or passive objects. Each agent may 
+exist
+> only as a single copy over the set of processes, and he is the 
+entity
+> responsible for updating the local states of the replica objects in
+> the other processes.
+>
+> If you want "what is your XYZ", the local replica answers. However, 
+if
+> you want "teleport to XYZ", the message is transmitted across the 
+network
+> to the unique agent, which updates its internal state, and then 
+retransmits
+> to all replicas "set internal state XYZ". And the latter is when 
+multicast
+> helps when there are many replicas to update.
+
+Ok, as far as I am thinking about agents, a replica only show info but 
+can't process code. So all the modificators should be send to the 
+main agent, that then update.
+
+There is still the possibility of an object to get two contradictory 
+updates at the same time. To avoid this you should order the messages, 
+something that I feel is unefficient and ugly.
+
+Just image agent is a ball, and then two user decide to kick the two 
+replica of the agent, so the replicas get the kick commnand and send 
+it to the agent.
+
+> > Replycating work can be a real pain.
+>
+> Hey, if I could buy a terahertz processor and have everything run on 
+a
+> single process, I'd be happy too :)
+
+If you need a terahertz processor to run the server, you better start 
+again the design stage.
+
+Just I want to note that replycanting the work can lead to ugly 
+things and race conditions.
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000085.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000085.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9df79cba --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000085.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org + + + + + + +

[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org

+ David Mentre + David.Mentre@inria.fr
+ 22 Dec 2000 10:06:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi all nelers,
+
+There are two bugs at nevrax.org:
+
+ 1. the webmaster@nevrax.org address is invalid:
+
+... while talking to www.nevrax.org.:
+>>> RCPT To:<webmaster@nevrax.org>
+<<< 550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+
+
+ 2. the bug system is no longer working at the time of this email:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi
+Software error:
+
+Can't connect to database server. at globals.pl line 40. 
+
+For help, please send mail to the webmaster (webmaster@nevrax.org),
+giving this error message and the time and date of the error. 
+
+
+Hope it helps,
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000086.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000086.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cb98ac0f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/000086.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org + + + + + + +

[Nel] Bugs on nevrax.org

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 22 Dec 2000 10:22:08 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to David Mentre:
+> There are two bugs at nevrax.org:
+> 
+>  1. the webmaster@nevrax.org address is invalid:
+> 
+> ... while talking to www.nevrax.org.:
+> >>> RCPT To:<webmaster@nevrax.org>
+> <<< 550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+> 550 5.1.1 <webmaster@nevrax.org>... User unknown
+
+Hrrrmmm? There's a comment in front of the alias (can't figure out why.
+My name's there, but it got commented out).
+
+>  2. the bug system is no longer working at the time of this email:
+> 
+> http://www.nevrax.org/bugs/reports.cgi
+> Software error:
+> 
+> Can't connect to database server. at globals.pl line 40. 
+
+No error messages, and the sql server went down. I'll keep an eye on it
+for today.
+
+Please note that the Nevrax offices are closed during the Christmas-New Year
+period. This list and the site shouldn't suffer, but don't expect prompt
+response to any problem or question you may raise.
+
+Happy holiday season all, and see you next century!
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c529c94c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-December Archive by Author + + + +

2000-December Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Mon Dec 4 15:09:23 2000
+ Ending: Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Messages: 12

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Archived on: Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2b87848b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-December Archive by Date + + + +

2000-December Archives by Date

+ +

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+ Ending: Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Messages: 12

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Archived on: Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e74c8b2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-December Archive by Thread + + + +

2000-December Archives by Thread

+ +

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+ Ending: Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Messages: 12

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Archived on: Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5d8089c7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-December Archive by Subject + + + +

2000-December Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Mon Dec 4 15:09:23 2000
+ Ending: Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Messages: 12

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Archived on: Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-December/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e74c8b2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-December/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-December Archive by Thread + + + +

2000-December Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Mon Dec 4 15:09:23 2000
+ Ending: Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Messages: 12

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Dec 22 09:22:08 2000
+ Archived on: Fri Dec 22 10:19:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000002.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000002.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bb4c5935 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000002.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] What kind of game are you making? + + + + + + +

[Nel] What kind of game are you making?

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:19:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello.
+I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+have to be free even though the code is free.
+I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+What kind of game are you making?
+How long have you been working on NeL?
+
+Best Regards,
+David
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000003.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000003.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..89023153 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000003.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] problem about the bug report interface + + + + + + +

[Nel] problem about the bug report interface

+ Nicolas Hognon + nhognon@noos.fr
+ Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:42:07 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hy ....
+
+yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+but i encounter a problem to report it.
+
+on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+the right part of the page is hidden
+so i use internet explorer :((
+but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+fine ....
+
+that's all ...
+
+
+-- 
+ Nicolas Hognon (aka SilentBob)
+ home : cblt@cblt.org / www.cblt.org
+ work : nicolash@next-url.com / www.next-url.com
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000004.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000004.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ba91c312 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000004.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] What kind of game are you making? + + + + + + +

[Nel] What kind of game are you making?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:16:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to david.belius@chello.se:
+> I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+
+Thanks for the attention. And the questions - I'm lazy, and couldn't
+find anything to put in the FAQ yet, so your questions will serve as the
+initial set :)
+
+> You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+> have to be free even though the code is free.
+> I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+
+A good assumption. Yes, we are making a game using that platform, or
+we are making that platform for our game, depending on how you look at
+it.
+
+> What kind of game are you making?
+
+We are working on, what else, a MMORPG "whose details are yet to be
+announced (blah blah)". Due to the marketing plans putting a gun on my
+head, I'm not at a liberty to discuss the game content and so on :(
+
+We're trying to be as general as possible, but the emphasis is definitively
+on multiplayer RPG.
+
+> How long have you been working on NeL?
+
+It depends on how you look at it. We've been in pre-planning stages since
+march 2000; looking at architecture options, development contraints,
+potentials pre-existing bits, interesting algorithms, and so on. The
+real, definitive coding has started in earnest early september, which
+is why NeL is not at the stage where you can see anything right sexy
+on your screen now; we're busy filling in the fundations of the library.
+
+With 9 full-time people on the programming staff, however, you can expect
+things to move rather fast. We do have deadlines, which include having a
+visible game skeleton within the next months, and the game proper going
+beta in late 2001, early 2002.
+
+What else can I say. We do expect to provide some form of game data quickly,
+because we don't expect everyone to suddendly turn into a professional
+3D modeler and artist to fill in, so don't despair yet at lack of game data
+(the data will reside in a separate module than the 'code' CVS module
+ available right now).
+
+Can't say what's the "demo data" will be, except it won't be our true
+game data, will be chilly, and you can expect to meet some non-flying birds
+all over the place :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7fc4eab4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] problem about the bug report interface + + + + + + +

[Nel] problem about the bug report interface

+ Yan Babilliot + yan@nevrax.com
+ 09 Nov 2000 12:46:40 -0200 +

+
+ +
> Hy ....
+> 
+> yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+> but i encounter a problem to report it.
+> 
+> on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+> to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+> the right part of the page is hidden
+> so i use internet explorer :((
+> but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+> fine ....
+> 
+> that's all ...
+> 
+
+Thank for the bug-report.
+You should now be able to report bugs with Netscape/Windows ;)
+
+
+
+-- 
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ef8ca117 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems? + + + + + + +

[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?

+ Cary Farrier + cary@farriersoft.com
+ Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:50:21 -0800 +

+
+ +
I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+(SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+
+Any thoughts?
+
+-> Cary
+--
+
+Cary Farrier    
+Farrier Software, Inc.                        (303) 875-9148 fax/message
+cary@farriersoft.com                        <http://www.farriersoft.com>
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e4f3c544 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html @@ -0,0 +1,156 @@ + + + + [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ... + + + + + + +

[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...

+ Stefan Nilsen + stefan.nilsen@telia.com
+ Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:43:58 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi guys.
+
+I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed 
+home this thing?
+
+Look below for my trial and (mostly) error.
+
+I would like to RTFM, but i don't find any :-(
+
+Pls help me!
+
+Btw, I run SuSE 7.0 if that helps anyone, and my computer is Y2K safe :-)
+
+----- cut here -----
+
+A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+
+
+I have tried the following commands:
+aclocal  
+
+(i got myself an aclocal.m4)
+
+automake 
+
+automake: configure.in: required file `./install-sh' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./mkinstalldirs' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./missing' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.guess' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.sub' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./INSTALL' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./COPYING' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found   
+
+automake -a
+
+automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./missing'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.guess'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.sub'
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./INSTALL'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./COPYING'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found  
+
+autoconf
+
+This gives me some of the missing files in the step above.
+
+automake -a  (again...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found  
+
+autoheader
+
+(silence...)
+
+automake -a (a final time...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found   
+
+./configure
+
+...
+...
+...
+checking for fcntl.h... yes
+checking for unistd.h... yes
+checking for working const... yes
+updating cache ./config.cache
+creating ./config.status
+creating Makefile
+creating src/Makefile
+creating src/misc/Makefile
+creating src/net/Makefile
+creating include/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./include/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating lib/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./lib/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating doc/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./doc/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating include/config.h    
+
+make
+
+Making all in include
+make[1]: Entering directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'.  Stop.
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1       
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000008.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000008.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a1ff295f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000008.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems? + + + + + + +

[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:32:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Cary Farrier:
+> I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+> to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+> (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+
+Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+
+Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..31d145c6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] List settings changes + + + + + + +

[Nel] List settings changes

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:41:37 +0100 +

+
+ +
Administrative note: I've switched the list settings. Made the list
+membership private - i.e. you have to enter your password to access
+the list members, in order to avoid spammers grabbing the list -, and
+what's more important, redirected replies to mailing list itself.
+
+If you want to reply to the sender of the message itself, you now have
+to use a group reply, and then edit the recipients to remove the list.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c2933e5c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ... + + + + + + +

[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:09:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+> 
+> I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed 
+> home this thing?
+>
+> [...]
+
+At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+
+We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+
+> A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+
+Thanks for your help ! :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d7ac46f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems? + + + + + + +

[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?

+ Bryce Harrington + bryce@neptune.net
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 02:22:23 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Hi Cary, 
+
+The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits. 
+
+Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+
+Longer answer:  
+http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/docs/stlhelp.txt
+
+The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+than by Microsoft.  Detailed errata is available here:
+    http://www.dinkumware.com/
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> According to Cary Farrier:
+> > I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+> > to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+> > (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+> 
+> Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+> interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+> there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+> for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+> you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+> 
+> Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+> 
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c6973690 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ + + + + [Nel] WorldForge + + + + + + +

[Nel] WorldForge

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:29:31 +0100 +

+
+ +
Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (http://www.worldforge.org).
+Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fde686a0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ + + + + [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems? + + + + + + +

[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:43:48 +0100 +

+
+ +
> The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+> very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+>
+> Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+
+ok, this define disables the macro min & max, it's same behavior as doing
+#undef min #undef max
+but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+*no* min
+definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &
+max
+template function in our code... no very cool...
+
+> Longer answer:
+>
+http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/doc
+s/stlhelp.txt
+>
+> The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+> than by Microsoft.  Detailed errata is available here:
+>     http://www.dinkumware.com/
+>
+> Bryce
+>
+> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > According to Cary Farrier:
+> > > I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+> > > to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+> > > (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+> >
+> > Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+> > interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+> > there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+> > for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+> > you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+> >
+> > Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+> >
+>
+> --
+> Bryce Harrington
+> bryce @ neptune.net
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000014.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000014.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0e298068 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000014.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Nel] WorldForge + + + + + + +

[Nel] WorldForge

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:39:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Greetings to you all ... :-)
+
+
+On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+> Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+> The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (http://www.worldforge.=
+org).
+
+Whooo hooo :-)
+
+> Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+
+Good question, I'm listening too ..
+
+	Thierry Mallard, a.k.a Shaman on Worldforge.org ;-)
+	(who didn't do much on this)
+
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoL0GgACgkQGBtCB6PQIcs6PACgyR9Uzbymw/yEYYnbrhGLulAl
+a88AoJxjE9nBMJkE1+yXHk2LjzTTEWXe
+=hdVU
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000015.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000015.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..95f27a17 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000015.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ + + + + [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems? + + + + + + +

[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?

+ Bryce Harrington + bryce@neptune.net
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 03:43:08 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Heh, well sorry but that's MS for ya...  
+
+As I recall, if you go MFC-free this particular issue will vanish.
+However there are other insidious STL bugs with Visual C++.
+
+If in fact you are using MFC, I would urge you to cease doing so at the
+earliest convenience.  Not only for portability reasons (MFC *ain't*
+portable, especially not backwards-wise) but also because it is a poor
+architecture for GUI development, and is not really in the GPL spirit of
+things.  If you intend to conduct your development openly as a net
+project, then crossplatformness is going to be especially treasured by
+you.  There are many options for crossplatform GUI libs.  Let me know if
+you'd like to discuss this more.  My two preferred libs are wxWindows
+(good for OS-matching widgets for editors and similar), or libuta (SDL
+compatible and skinnable).  Mozilla has another cross platform GUI lib
+but I've not used it in its current incarnation so don't know whether
+it's usable independently of Mozilla.
+
+FWIW, I always stick this boilerplate code in any file that uses STL
+that I'd like to compile with MSVC 4.2:
+
+#ifdef _MSC_VER
+// Fix broken STL implementation in MSVC 4.2
+// Include files (for MSVC)
+#pragma warning(disable: 4786)  // Kludge to get around bug in MSVC 4.2
+#pragma warning(disable: 4788)  // See above
+#endif
+
+I think you may be stuck including your own max/min template functions.
+That's a pretty minor thing compared with some of the patches you may
+have to make to work around some of the other issues (especially if you
+want to support pre-6.0 MSVC).  
+
+Ultimately, you're going to want to trim down use of STL anyway, so you
+can recover the performance loss.  We still use STL at WorldForge, for
+instance, but some simple tests show that hand coded, non-templated map
+and list classes provide some modest performance gains, and some day
+when we're down to squeezing out the last bits of performance, we'll
+probably be pulling STL out ourselves.
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+> > The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+> > very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+> >
+> > Simple answer:  Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+> 
+> ok, this define disables the macro min & max, it's same behavior as doing
+> #undef min #undef max
+> but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+> *no* min
+> definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &
+> max
+> template function in our code... no very cool...
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000016.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000016.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..669a8c08 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000016.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] WorldForge + + + + + + +

[Nel] WorldForge

+ Bryce Harrington + bryce@neptune.net
+ Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:03:48 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+> > Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+> > The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (http://www.worldforge.org).
+> 
+> Whooo hooo :-)
+
+*Grin*  Hiya.
+ 
+> > Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+> 
+> Good question, I'm listening too ..
+
+Ah, well at this point I'm just being a pair of ears.  I'm hoping to get
+a pointer to something describing what the group's plan is or some feel
+for the "big picture".
+
+(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+get to roast a marshmallow or two.  *wink*)
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000017.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000017.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..17a529b7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000017.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] WorldForge + + + + + + +

[Nel] WorldForge

+ Olivier Lejade + olivier@nevrax.com
+ Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:18:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
At 03:03 PM 11/10/00 -0800, you wrote:
+>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+> > On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+> > > Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+> > > The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself 
+> (http://www.worldforge.org).
+> >
+> > Whooo hooo :-)
+>
+>*Grin*  Hiya.
+>
+> > > Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+> >
+> > Good question, I'm listening too ..
+>
+>
+>
+>(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+>combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+>crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+>get to roast a marshmallow or two.  *wink*)
+>
+>--
+>Bryce Harrington
+>bryce @ neptune.net
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+--
+"Minds are like parachutes. They work best when open."
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000018.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000018.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5291c9ed --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000018.html @@ -0,0 +1,153 @@ + + + + [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments + + + + + + +

[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments

+ Sal + sferro@wojo.com
+ Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:18:21 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+First a little rant to explain my being here: :-)
+
+    I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce.  Though not nearly as
+famous ;-)   I stumbled upon Nevrax the other day and am very interested in
+its development.  My goal a few years back was to help create a free,
+massively multiplayer online RPG system, one that I could enjoy myself and
+that others could build from to make their own persistant online worlds.
+And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+to achieve such a goal.
+
+    Most opensource projects that start up have caught my eye, the first
+being the Ultima online emulator scene which  I was a part of for a long
+time, coding admin tools, NPC ai, network code, etc. Whatever seemed the
+most challenging task.   I got soon fed up with having to deal with the idea
+that all the hard work might not even turn out to be legal, and all the
+problems that OSI provided for the emu scene I didnt care for.  So I then
+came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+gaming system.
+
+    So I took on the responsibility of developer XClient, a 3d client.  The
+root of its homepage is here, if anyone's interested:
+http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/
+
+    Some shots of its recent developments (a terrain engine) are here:
+http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain1.jpg
+http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain2.jpg
+    (Its very early in development)
+
+    Some old out of date client shots:
+http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/screenshots/
+
+    And lastly, a goals paper that I've recently written to illustrate what
+the goals are in XClient development.  This one I recommend reading above
+the others.
+http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/developer/goals
+
+    I've also created a Map editor (XEdit) a UDP networking library based
+off of the GPLd quake code (XUDP) and a simple test server (XServer).  All
+of this and XClient are in Worldforge cvs for those interested.  If there
+are questions about any of these things, please ask!
+
+    Anyhow, yes there is a point to all this.  It seems that a lot of
+Worldforge's goals and development are in tandem with Nevrax's.  So,  I
+thought it would be worth it to see  1) how compatible our projects are and
+2) if we might be able to help each other out in any form, whether it be
+artwork, code, or knowledge.  3) how much interest, if any, there is in
+sharing efforts.
+
+    So if I could ask a few questions.  I tried finding out some information
+through the website, but some questions remain:
+
+1)  I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+project also developing a specific game that uses the library?  If so what
+details of it are known?  As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+
+2)  What is the development strategy?  For example Worldforge will be
+developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'.  Will you guys be
+doing a similar thing?
+
+3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being targeted
+(high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+
+4)  I get this question a lot :-)  Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+
+5)  What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+
+6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+7)  Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started?  And if
+so,  why was it deemed necessary to start another,  independant effort with
+the same goals?
+
+8)  Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will use
+in the following areas:
+                - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+                - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+                - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+any?)
+                - Model format(s)
+                - Texture format(s)
+
+9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+free software? :-)
+
+
+    Thats about all I have for now.  I'm sure more will come up in the
+future.  You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair questions.
+
+    Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+efforts.  Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working towards.
+I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+
+- Sal
+sferro@wojo.com
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000019.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000019.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e0384706 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000019.html @@ -0,0 +1,50 @@ + + + + [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ... + + + + + + +

[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...

+ Stefan Nilsen + stefan.nilsen@telia.com
+ Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:55:37 +0100 +

+
+ +
> At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+>
+> We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+
+Ok, that explains it. Maybe I'm not stupid after all... :-)
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000020.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000020.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3c97275b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000020.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some Linux patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some Linux patches

+ Stefan Nilsen + stefan.nilsen@telia.com
+ Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:04:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
I made som fixes for compile on Linux.
+
+This is the first time i submit a patch, so please tell me if i'm doing 
+anything wrong.
+
+Index: Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.1 Makefile.am
+9c9
+< SUBDIRS= include src lib doc
+---
+> SUBDIRS= src doc
+Index: src/net/base_socket.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.16
+diff -r1.16 base_socket.cpp
+40a41,42
+> #define __need_timeval
+> #include <bits/time.h>
+42c44
+< #include <netinet/tcp/h>
+---
+> #include <netinet/tcp.h>
+261c263
+< 	int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+> 	socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+344c346
+< 	int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+> 	socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+374c376
+<
+---
+>
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000021.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000021.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..43590a05 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000021.html @@ -0,0 +1,180 @@ + + + + [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments + + + + + + +

[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:58:30 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Sal,
+
+My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too 
+much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically 
+oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it 
+would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in the 
+FAQ.
+I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+
+At 04:18 PM 11/11/00 -0500, you wrote:
+>I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce.  Though not nearly as
+>famous ;-)
+
+Or so you think... ;)
+
+>And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+>to achieve such a goal.
+
+Thanks for the attention.
+We hope and believe so too.
+
+>So I then
+>came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+>opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+>gaming system.
+
+Yes, WorldForge is a very impressive project with a very, very large scope. 
+We are all admirative of your capacity to handle such a large and diverse 
+community. Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially 
+daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+
+Here at Nevrax, we do not intend to have such a large range of activity. We 
+are concentrating on a 3D client (no 2D, text, etc) and we are doing all 
+the artwork/game design internally.
+Nevrax.org will focus on fostering a "technical" community.
+
+>1) how compatible our projects are
+
+I'll let the coders answer on the technical aspect. However, on a more 
+philosophical point of vue, I'd say our project are very compatible, 
+siblings really, since they are both GPL.
+
+>1)  I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+>project also developing a specific game that uses the library?
+
+Yes. we are currently developing a yet unannounced commercial MMORPG.
+
+>If so what
+>details of it are known?  As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+
+At this time, I'm sorry to say we cannot disclose any information 
+concerning game design / artwork. However things are bound to change as we 
+go along, and some information will start trickling out in the coming months.
+
+>2)  What is the development strategy?  For example Worldforge will be
+>developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+>etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'.  Will you guys be
+>doing a similar thing?
+
+Not in the sense of WF (i.e lots of intermediary games). We are working on 
+a single game. However, we do have a number of milestones. Also by the end 
+of the year, we will be disclosing a "sample world" under an open content 
+license for the community to kick around and have fun with. But this will 
+have nothing to do with our final game.
+
+>4)  I get this question a lot :-)  Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+>not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+
+We checked out CS of course as well as many others, and while it is a very 
+nice engine, it did not seem to fit our particular needs.
+
+>6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+>internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting software, 
+however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And 
+while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile 
+functionnality.
+
+On the game content side though, we are keeping things to ourselves for now.
+Expect to be really, really suprised though... :)
+
+>7)  Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started?  And if
+>so,  why was it deemed necessary to start another,  independant effort with
+>the same goals?
+
+Yes, we knew of WF (actually, since the time it was called Altima !).
+We took some time to consider joining the effort, however we felt there was 
+a number of reasons for not doing so. I'll give you some of them :
+
+- We wanted to keep a tight focus on the game we are doing and did not want 
+to be hindered in political struggles to get the code where we needed. We 
+felt the WF community might ressent us steering in directions that they 
+would not care for. We have a tight schedule : we want the game out in 2002.
+Which means we could'nt spare to much time arguing about it.
+
+- We have different goals : we are a commercial entity. We don't have the 
+educational/hobbyist approach of WF. Nevrax has a complete team of seasoned 
+professionals not only at the programming level, but also on the design / 
+3D artwork / concept side working every day towards one goal : getting the 
+game out.
+
+- We have a highly original world which poses a great number of 
+constraints. We felt we would be in a better position to adress them by 
+leading our own effort.
+
+That said, I must emphasize that we do not see ourselves as "competing" 
+with WF. We are simply two different projects, taking two different 
+approach at building a Free Software system for MMORPGs. Diversity is A 
+Good Thing.
+I wish WF will succeed and I hope there will be as much cooperation between 
+the two projects as possible.
+
+>9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+>free software? :-)
+
+Ah ha ! :)
+
+Free Software doesn't mean free content or free service.
+While our software is Free, we retain property of our game data. And to 
+access our servers in order to play our game, users will be asked to pay a 
+monthly fee just like with the other commercial games.
+
+Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match. 
+And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening 
+our source code.
+
+I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise 
+even more questions !
+
+Thanks for your encouragments,
+
+Olivier
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000022.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000022.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..396208f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000022.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ + + + + [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments + + + + + + +

[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments

+ Sal + sferro@wojo.com
+ Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:34:56 -0500 +

+
+ +
> Hi Sal,
+>
+> My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too
+> much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically
+> oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it
+> would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in
+the
+> FAQ.
+> I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+
+    Thank you for taking the time to respond Olivier, this clears up a lot
+of questions!
+
+> Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially
+> daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+> As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+
+    I very much agree here.  In my experience I've discovered that media is
+very hard to come by.  Talented artists don't like to work for free, and who
+can blame them, a lot of the industry's tools are expensive and take a lot
+of effort and time to learn.  I think this is one of the biggest obstacles
+in free game software development, the lack of good, free media.  If Nevrax
+is able to help out in this area, the opensource commmunity, Worldforge
+included, would be very grateful...
+
+[ ... ]
+> Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting
+software,
+> however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And
+> while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile
+> functionnality.
+[ ... ]
+
+    I understand your intentions.  With openness in development comes
+conflict in views on many issues.  As a project under a tight schedule,
+resolving all issues in the open might not be the most efficient approach
+timewise.
+
+    If there still is any desire to collaborate on things such as client
+engine design, I would be happy to.  If XClient and the Nel client could be
+made more compatible in any way, I think it would be worth the effort.  If
+similairity in protocol could be obtained, then our software could
+communicate with each other.  Likewise, if rendering architecture was
+similair, we could collaborate on, and/or share pieces of code for the game
+engines.  Either way I think it could mean saving work and time for the both
+of us...
+
+    On the other hand, collaborating would logically take some effort, which
+I understand Nevrax may or may not have the time for.  It still might be
+worth considering, at any rate.
+
+> Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match.
+> And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening
+> our source code.
+
+    Here I very much agree, also!
+
+> I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise
+> even more questions !
+
+    Thanks again!  And I await the answers to the other, more technical
+questions. ;-)
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000023.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000023.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a729cb58 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000023.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ + + + + [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments + + + + + + +

[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:37:49 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello sal!
+
+> 3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being
+targeted
+> (high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+
+you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+features
+of the 3d engine (http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html)
+that we plan to develop.
+
+> 5)  What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+
+hum... good question :-) today, the code is not able to do lot of things but
+it'll change in few weeks. the misc component contains lot of really cool
+tools like serializable system, input events system, internationalization,
+math classes, etc...
+there's only the skeleton of the 3d engine but, low level layers start to
+work
+and it'll display polygons in few days :) the low interface font manager is
+ready
+to display text and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+theses
+tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+for the network components, all communication layers are available.
+the service based class is ready too and will be extented in the futur.
+few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+we'll work on a "client" exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+perhaps, display someting :)
+
+> 6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+> internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software community.
+
+> 8)  Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will
+use
+> in the following areas:
+
+is the whitepaper not enough? ok , we ll add some stuffs on it :)
+
+>                 - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+
+for now, we only manage TCP/IP and plan to use UDP only the visual effect
+like
+smooth dead reckoning (the standard dead reckoning will be in TCP/IP for
+some
+cheating reasons)
+
+>                 - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+
+we use a generic streamable and serializable system so we don't have any
+file format :-)
+it's a really powerful system!!! and so easy to manage!
+
+>                 - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+> any?)
+
+we use 3ds max only, and we create plugins for our needs.
+
+>                 - Model format(s)
+
+same as mapfile :)
+
+>                 - Texture format(s)
+
+we use .dds format for pre-compressed texture format (DXTC*) and
+pre-computed mimap.
+we also use .tga for normal texture/image :-)
+
+> 9)  How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+> free software? :-)
+
+we are paid, i can confirm :-)
+
+>     Thats about all I have for now.  I'm sure more will come up in the
+> future.  You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+> in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair
+questions.
+
+yes, we'll add these questions in the FAQ!
+
+>     Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+> efforts.  Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working
+towards.
+> I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+
+thanks
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000024.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000024.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..479940c2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000024.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux build + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux build

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:05:30 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello, to all !
+Nice to see what all my dreams come true )))
+I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+able to put our hands on it ?
+This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+VC++
+installed ;))
+Wish you good luck
+
+--
+Dim Zager
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a4f22dbd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ + + + + [Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments + + + + + + +

[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments

+ Sal + sferro@wojo.com
+ Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:40:01 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hello Vianney,  I'm glad to have made acquaintance with the lead programmer
+of this amazing effort!
+
+> Hello sal!
+>
+> > 3)  What features/goals are there for the 3d engine?  What's being
+> targeted
+> > (high end/low end hardware)?  What rendering APIs?  Software mode?
+>
+> you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+> features
+> of the 3d engine (http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html)
+> that we plan to develop.
+
+    Thanks for your time in answering my questions.  I took the time the
+other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code.  I
+must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an early
+stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+
+> few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+> we'll work on a "client" exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+> perhaps, display someting :)
+
+    A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+this neat stuff!  This would logically be needed for testing and developing
+new features, also.
+
+    Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it seems
+to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress?   ( I have
+nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might be
+of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+
+> [...] and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+> theses
+> tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+
+    This raises a question I've been pondering myself.  I've also recently
+created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated characters
+from character studio.  Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it?  I wasn't
+able to resolve this from the documention included.  I know that the sdk
+itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+o.k...
+
+> > 6)  Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+> > internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+>
+> We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software
+community.
+
+    Thats great to hear.  I (and I'm sure many others) would like to see
+this operation become a success, and would like to help it do so.  As is
+evident with the existance of projects like Worldforge, one can see that a
+GPLish mmorpg system is very desired by many people.  I also think it would
+be cool if Nevrax showed the world that Free Software works, even in the
+commercial market... and maybe help encourage other companies to do the same
+in the future.
+
+Thanks again for the info!
+- Sal
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000026.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000026.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c330ea8e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000026.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] my last email :) + + + + + + +

[Nel] my last email :)

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:11:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello all,
+
+>     Thanks for your time in answering my questions.  I took the time the
+> other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code.  I
+> must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+> And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an
+early
+> stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+
+Thanks a lot :) We hope to continue in this way!
+
+>     A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+> this neat stuff!  This would logically be needed for testing and
+developing
+> new features, also.
+
+In a first time, this client will do nothing else than init the nel lib and
+perhaps
+display a text and a triangle :) be patient!
+
+>     Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it
+seems
+> to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+> Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+> theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+> rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress?   ( I
+have
+> nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might
+be
+> of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+
+Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+things that
+the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+should wait the
+end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+
+>     This raises a question I've been pondering myself.  I've also recently
+> created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated
+characters
+> from character studio.  Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+> these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it?  I wasn't
+> able to resolve this from the documention included.  I know that the sdk
+> itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+> o.k...
+
+I'm not able to answer, perhaps our 3d code lead could answer this.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000027.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000027.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..314aebae --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000027.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] my last email :) + + + + + + +

[Nel] my last email :)

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:36:31 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Best regards,
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead programmer / nevrax.com
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+
+At least we know the name of game itself :))
+>From Vianney's home page - Ryzom game for Nevrax
+www.ryzom.com - very similar to www.transmeta.com in early days (but without
+hidden msg )))
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..507fbc84 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux build + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux build

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:51:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Dim,
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+> 
+> I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+> anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+> able to put our hands on it ?
+
+Soon ... ;-)
+
+You should be able to get Nel to compile on Linux in the following days.
+
+
+> This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+> afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+> internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+> VC++ installed ;))
+
+I see very well what you mean ... :-)
+
+
+> Wish you good luck
+
+Thanks a lot.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d12aef71 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Flexibility + + + + + + +

[Nel] Flexibility

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:59:58 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi
+
+I'm wondering how general the nel library will be. Will it be a *MMORPG*
+engine or will it be more general so i can e.g. make a Massive Multiplay
+Online Real Time Stragegy game(MMORTS =)?
+Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+
+/David
+
+PS.
+I just found out that Vianney was in the Outcast team! How cool isnt
+that?
+DS.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2adc1804 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] my last email :) + + + + + + +

[Nel] my last email :)

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:05:08 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+> things that
+> the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+> You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+> In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+> should wait the
+> end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+
+Have you put this list online?
+It would be nice to get some orders so I could start contributing =)
+
+/David
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ca099c02 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] Flexibility + + + + + + +

[Nel] Flexibility

+ Ludovic LIEVRE + ludovic.lievre@chaman.net
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:10:49 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+<SNIP>
+
+> Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+
+A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+french company where I'm currently working.
+The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+released in 2001.
+Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+
+Ludo
+
+--
+Ludovic LIEVRE
+Chaman Productions
+mailto:ludo@chaman.net
+
+"Give me a museum and I'll fill it."
+Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000032.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000032.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..34ad93ed --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000032.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Nel] Flexibility + + + + + + +

[Nel] Flexibility

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:33:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
It smell shark!
+you don't feel the same smell?
+
+----- Original Message ----- 
+From: "Ludovic LIEVRE" <ludovic.lievre@chaman.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 5:10 PM
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Flexibility
+
+
+> 
+> Hi,
+> 
+> <SNIP>
+> 
+> > Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+> 
+> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+> french company where I'm currently working.
+> The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+> released in 2001.
+> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+> 
+> 
+> Ludo
+> 
+> --
+> Ludovic LIEVRE
+> Chaman Productions
+> mailto:ludo@chaman.net
+> 
+> "Give me a museum and I'll fill it."
+> Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000033.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000033.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..532b50da --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000033.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Flexibility + + + + + + +

[Nel] Flexibility

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:26:49 +0100 +

+
+ +
>
+> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+> french company where I'm currently working.
+> The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+> released in 2001.
+> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+Please, please, please, please could you get me into the beta test =)
+I'd relly appriciate it.
+
+/David
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a32a3293 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Flexibility (oops) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Flexibility (oops)

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:14 +0100 +

+
+ +
>
+> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+> french company where I'm currently working.
+> The game is called Forteresse (http://www.forteresse.com) and will be
+> released in 2001.
+> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+I didnt find that beta test joining page at first. =/
+Ignore my pathetic begging. ;)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0707a141 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] my last email :) + + + + + + +

[Nel] my last email :)

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:43:16 +0100 +

+
+ +
Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+> > Best regards,
+> >
+> > Vianney Lecroart
+> > ---
+> > lead programmer / nevrax.com
+> > homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+>
+> At least we know the name of game itself :))
+
+He he ... :))
+I wouldn't insist on revealing  name of the game. I'm respecting
+commercial nature of this project. Without it NeL wasn't be born at all
+of was not available under GPL
+Hope, I didn't destroy you plans too mach ... ))
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000036.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000036.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ab0498ec --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000036.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:34:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
Ok, after browsing game projects which mentioned on
+http://ace.planet-d.net I come to conclusion
+what your new game will be really MASSIVELY multi-user with _very_
+detailed world(s) running in your
+universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+street (or any other type of portal, analog of <a href> in HTML)
+he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+I think what mechanism of linking between different worlds similar to
+WWW will be a good starting point for
+creating Internet2 (why not ? ;))
+What's about starting RFC  for WCP (World Communicating Protocol) ?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000037.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000037.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c0149090 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000037.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL

+ Dan Ellis + dan@isvara.net
+ Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:52:01 +0000 (GMT) +

+
+ +
On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+> universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+> for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+> street (or any other type of portal, analog of <a href> in HTML)
+> he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+> hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+> portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+> nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+
+This is something the Afterscape Project will allow. It will be a very
+distributed universe that will allow delegation of zones to other servers.
+
+-- 
+Dan Ellis <dan@isvara.net>
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000038.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000038.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7b9555ab --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000038.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:20:26 +0100 +

+
+ +
--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:34:09PM +0100, Dim Segebart wrote:
+> [...] So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+
+This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+too, although that seemed less important...=20
+
+But definitly that could be a good idea to implement now ;-)
+
+
+	Shaman
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoSVVoACgkQGBtCB6PQIcvBigCgxq5rFlp3v+hdSzp3pw+nFgWF
+LZ0AoJOg37O2L9uTxXISsGf+E8XsZIn+
+=RzT/
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9--
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000039.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000039.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f76ffc30 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000039.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some thoughts about NeL + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:27:27 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Thierry Mallard:
+> This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+> not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+> were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+> have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+> can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+> too, although that seemed less important... 
+
+In a very different world (and a closed system implementation), it's also
+something Bioware's NeverWinterNights wants to achieve. Their model allows
+servers (what they call modules, which is in fact a process running a
+specific area - but you can have multiples instances concurrently running
+on the same CPU) to link to each other.
+
+Of course, their model is simpler: all servers are guaranteed to run the
+same software (it autoupdates over the Internet), the character formats are
+well defined, and the characters are ultimately stored on a central database
+(the NWN Vault) who enforces "plausibility" on the characters (a level 1
+cannot get to level 6 and 70,000 XP points in an hour of playtime; a level 3
+character cannot have a plate+2, a cloak of displacement and boots of speed,
+and so on).
+
+And they do not want to inforce any universe continuity: each server admin
+has to do it, by allowing other modules to link to yours or not.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000040.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000040.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2d2d9e3d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000040.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:12:16 +0100 +

+
+ +
One thing from previous questions that wasn't much developped upon.
+
+Networking.
+
+The original question was "do you use TCP or UDP for networking". My
+initial impulse was to reply "we use RDP, of course" (for those who do not
+know what RDP is, check /etc/protocols, number 27). But alas, Vianney beat
+me to the answer, so I have to be truthful.
+
+The question is: what do you use networking for, and why does the question
+on the use of TCP vs the use of UDP arises?
+
+Because, in most protocols design, this question never arises: one is clearly
+superior to the other. Why is that the question stands for a MMOG?
+
+If you look at the information elements that have to be transmitted from a
+client to the server and back, you see that they can be somehow separated
+across two different categories:
+
+1) Long-lived elements of information
+and
+2) Short-lived elements of information
+
+You may also separate on a different axis
+
+1) Uncorrectable elements of information
+and
+2) Correctable elements of information
+
+Uncorrectable elements of information are elements whose omission render the
+game state incompatible between client and server and require the transmission
+of said element, while correctable information can be overriden by a different
+game element.
+
+A few examples:
+
+- NPC X is dead: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+- critter C has N hp: this is a long-lived/correctable element
+- critter C is at X/Y/Z facing direction D: this is short-lived/correctable
+- I am casting spell C: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+
+Note that I can't find an example of short-lived, yet uncorrectable element.
+Any ideas?
+
+What do you face here? You face very different information elements. Some
+MUST be there for the world to make sense. So you have to guarantee their
+transmission: TCP makes sense. On the other hand, you have some that are
+quickly obsolete, and do not matter when lost. For them the whole TCP
+retransmission/guarantee of delivery is useless and a waste of ressources.
+
+So how do you design your protocol. You can take the short, easy route:
+use TCP (and lose performance for your position updates - which are by far
+the most numerous elements you get). You can take the long, hard route:
+use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+
+Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides you
+the service guarantee you need).
+
+One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows you to
+bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP protocol
+path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+compatible with TCP streaming).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000041.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000041.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f77c77a7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000041.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts

+ Sal + sferro@wojo.com
+ Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:32:09 -0500 +

+
+ +
> You can take the long, hard route:
+> use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+> transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+
+    I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage two
+sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP.  Also the important
+data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text.  Most data in a networked
+game is usually skippable.   I think this is why most games use simple UDP,
+because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little data
+that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+o.k.   The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+
+> Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+> the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+> them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides
+you
+> the service guarantee you need).
+
+    This is one possible route... not a bad one either.  There would not be
+any sort of performance loss in comparison to a pure-UDP implementation,
+since the operating system's TCP/IP implementation is probably more
+efficient than the custom UDP one.
+
+    I guess its a matter of preference, of the developers are willing to
+code something that manages two sets of sockets int the clients and servers,
+then go for it :-)
+
+> One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows
+you to
+> bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP
+protocol
+> path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+> way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+> compatible with TCP streaming).
+
+    This is true.  Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP so,
+the genre of people who would play a MMOG would probably have dealt with the
+firewall issues before, and would expect to fix their config to accomodate a
+new game.  Of course thats a slight generalization...
+
+Just adding some more food to the bowl ;-)
+-Sal
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000042.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000042.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a98bec57 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000042.html @@ -0,0 +1,50 @@ + + + + [Nel] Problems ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Problems ?

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:12:02 +0100 +

+
+ +
What's wrong with this list ?
+I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+(((
+And also no posts from other members.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000043.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000043.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..78f3158a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000043.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:56:10 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+>     I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage
+two
+> sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP.  Also the important
+> data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+> when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text.  Most data in a
+networked
+> game is usually skippable.   I think this is why most games use simple
+UDP,
+> because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little
+data
+> that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+> o.k.   The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+> data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+> of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+> MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+
+
+Oh really? I have not the same opinion. I think that 90% of information on a
+game
+are important and must be received if you don't want to have inconsistency
+in the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+receive
+"you lost 5 hp" message before "you are attacked by XXX", it should be
+totally
+weird. I think that messages, in a role game, must be sorted and reliable
+for
+consistency and logical events.
+
+>     This is true.  Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP
+so,
+
+be careful, there more than 1 category of network game. there are MMOG and
+counter strike like game (with few tens of players). for the second one udp
+is a
+surely useful but for MMOG, I'm not sure that the most of them are in UDP
+only.
+
+-vl
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000044.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000044.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7f15c3c8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000044.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Problems ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Problems ?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:27:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Dim Segebart:
+> What's wrong with this list ?
+> I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+> (((
+> And also no posts from other members.
+
+That's a not a particularly weird one, because you're not listed as
+a member of the list. I've looked at the logs, and didn't find a record
+of your subscription confirmation.
+
+Please note that mailman doesn't let "third party subscriptions" for you;
+when you subscribe from the on-line form, mailman sends a message to the
+subscribed address asking for a confirmation, to avoid the syndrome of
+"let's register Mr X to 10,000 lists to flood his mailbox" (and the less
+bothersome 'let's put in a wrong and mispelled address'). Until you have
+properly replied to that confirmation message (keep the subject, and cut all
+the body), you will NOT receive messages from the list.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000045.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000045.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1d436aa6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000045.html @@ -0,0 +1,98 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:23:03 +0100 +

+
+ +
--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:56:10AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> [ Networking ]
+> I think that 90% of information on a game are important and must be recei=
+ved
+> if you don't want to have inconsistency in
+> the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+> receive
+> "you lost 5 hp" message before "you are attacked by XXX",=20
+
+Just two little remarks here :
+
+1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+   "you now have 37 HP" more than "you lost 5 HP" : one is skippable, the o=
+ther
+   is not.=20
+
+2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But =
+if
+that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+
+
+	Shaman,=20
+	[ still learning to write english ... ;-) ]
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoWPGcACgkQGBtCB6PQIctC4wCdHeXHaiWu8TqEpUsryl+D/wH2
+Ha8An3O5buwRHRsPEP2lr5PL1Nc2lDEu
+=xo0+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000046.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000046.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..027edc28 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000046.html @@ -0,0 +1,188 @@ + + + + [Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?

+ Tom wright + thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com
+ Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:14:11 -0000 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all,
+
+I am quite interested in what your trying to do, having played about =
+with the ideas for one of these for more years than I care to think =
+about :-)
+
+I have some general questions I would like to ask who ever is in the =
+know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones :-)
+
+1)  Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build  the stuff ? I am =
+currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to =
+try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your =
+environment and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include =
+is missing.
+It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies =
+that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in =
+there :-)  But it will save you answering the same question lots of time =
+for those that don't look at the src
+
+2) Care to release at least a rough schedule on the website, so that =
+people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are going to be =
+released ?
+
+3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading =
+and learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+playing with it a few months ago, it has alot going for it.  Are you =
+going to embed it and interface it to the API's available so that people =
+can use it for developement within the system, or is it more an external =
+glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+5) In your event dispatch system, how do you intent to get around the =
+problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having seen this problem =
+in other systems that rely on events for inter-object comms, I am =
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.
+
+Congrats on embrassing the open source idea for your server, and I look =
+forward to messing around with the system and the source.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am quite interested in what your =
+trying to do,=20
+having played about with the ideas for one of these for more years than =
+I care=20
+to think about :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have some general questions I would =
+like to ask=20
+who ever is in the know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones=20
+:-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1)&nbsp; Are you going to add to the =
+FAQ how to=20
+build&nbsp; the stuff ? I am currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( =
+though I have=20
+a linux box also to try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths =
+coded=20
+to your environment and not within the project file, e.g. =
+whatever\nel\include=20
+is missing.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It would be useful in the FAQ if it =
+contained a=20
+list of any dependencies that the system also requires like the STL =
+code. Yeah I=20
+know its in there :-)&nbsp; But it will save you answering the same =
+question=20
+lots of time for those that don't look at the src</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) Care to release at least a rough =
+schedule on the=20
+website, so that people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are =
+going to=20
+be released ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Congrats on releasing the src early, =
+that means=20
+we can start reading and learning now before we have 1000's of files to =
+wade=20
+through.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4) very interested to see talking about =
+using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot =
+going for=20
+it.&nbsp; Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+available so=20
+that people can use it for developement within the system, or is it more =
+an=20
+external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI =
+and NPC=20
+routines</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>5) In your event dispatch system, how =
+do you intent=20
+to get around the problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having =
+seen=20
+this problem in other systems that rely on events for inter-object =
+comms, I am=20
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded=20
+round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Congrats on embrassing the open source =
+idea for=20
+your server, and&nbsp;I look forward to messing around with the system =
+and the=20
+source.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000047.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000047.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ba1a9fdb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000047.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:59:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+> 4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+> going for it.  Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+available so that people can use it for=20
+> developement within the system, or is it more an external glue =
+language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping > AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+Hello,=20
+I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with Pierre =
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all class that we write but because we design a multi agents =
+system, we decideded to write an script interpret for our agents =
+platform. That dicision become because in open-source platform we did'nt =
+find an embed language for prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for =
+doing that.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; 4) very interested to see talking =
+about using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; going for it.&nbsp; Are you going =
+to embed it=20
+and interface it to the API's available so that people can use it for=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; developement within the system, or =
+is it more=20
+an external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping =
+&gt; AI=20
+and NPC routines</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>
+<DIV>Hello, </DIV>
+<DIV>I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with =
+Pierre=20
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all=20
+class that&nbsp;we write but because we design a multi agents system, we =
+
+decideded to write an script interpret for our agents platform. That =
+dicision=20
+become because in open-source platform we did'nt find an =
+embed&nbsp;language for=20
+prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for doing that.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000048.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000048.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ec552de9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000048.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:12:40 +0100 +

+
+ +
>1)  Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build  the stuff ? I am
+currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to try
+this out >on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your environment
+and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include is missing.
+>It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies
+that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in there
+:-)  But it >will save you answering the same question lots of time for
+those that don't look at the src
+
+I'm working on the Visual C++ INSTALL file that explains everything you have
+to do to install and compile our project. It should be available in few
+days. (The unix one should come too in few days). But we don't plan to add
+it in the faq, we'll put it in the root directory.
+
+>3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading and
+learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+Thanks
+
+-Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000049.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000049.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..14e242db --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000049.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:03:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Thierry Mallard:
+> Just two little remarks here :
+> 
+> 1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+>    "you now have 37 HP" more than "you lost 5 HP" : one is skippable, the other
+>    is not. 
+
+As a general rule, change of state messages are always what I termed
+uncorrectable elements, while state information is, by definition,
+correctable (because you can resend the same state information at any
+time, "correcting" the error).
+
+Now, some information can be expressed in terms of either state or change
+of state. The choice of the type of communication between server and client
+must be individually chosen for most.
+
+An important point to keep in mind is that, for most state information
+which we deliver thru UDP, you are perfectly allowed to lose some
+information (since you expect it will be corrected in the near future),
+but for any specific state, you must guarantee that at least some of the
+updates are delivered properly.
+
+A good example is the "HP update" above. You may send "X now has 37 HP"
+"X now has 33 HP", "X now has 30 HP", but at some point, you need to ensure
+that the client (since we assume that the server is the one giving the state
+update) gets at least one update. So, most of these updates would be sent
+using UDP, but one out of N has to be sent using TCP to ensure guaranteed
+delivery (or, more typically, one every N seconds).
+
+> 2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+> network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+> between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But if
+> that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+
+If you use two streams, you also need to guarantee an order between both.
+It wouldn't do to receive "X has 35 HP" thru TCP and "X has 38 HP" thru UDP.
+So all state update messages also need to carry out a timestamp so that,
+when your client parses the "X has 35 HP" message because your network stack
+delivered this first, he'll be able to ignore the "X has 38 HP" one which is
+now obsolete.
+
+Oh, and I do agree. Using pure TCP frees you from the hassles of dealing
+with all that... but you relinquish a lot of control of the lag, since you
+cannot control how and when the information is retransmitted.
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e9862820 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org + + + + + + +

[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org

+ Roy Bryant + roybryant@SEVENtwentyfour.com
+ Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:09:37 -0500 +

+
+ +
There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+
+    On your page http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/
+    when you click on your link to
+http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html
+    you get the error: Not found
+
+As recommended by the Robot Guidelines, this email is to explain our robot's
+activities and to let you know about one of the broken links we encountered.
+LinkWalker does not store or publish the content of your pages, but rather
+uses the link information to update our map of the World Wide Web.
+
+Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+
+Roy Bryant
+
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+ Roy Bryant, roybryant@seventwentyfour.com
+ President
+ SEVENtwentyfour Inc. ("Always watching the Web")
+ http://www.seventwentyfour.com
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3fd1c76d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org + + + + + + +

[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:18:40 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Roy Bryant:
+> There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+> 
+>     On your page http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/
+>     when you click on your link to
+> http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html
+>     you get the error: Not found
+
+Well, there are no october archives, since these archives held only
+messages of the form "ok, ping, 1-2-3, anyone hear me?" and "do I
+receive this?".
+
+I tried to remove all traces of the october activity, but Mailman seem
+to have resurrected the links, even if the files themselves are not there,
+nor any information to recreate them.
+
+Mailman is, well, "lacking" (to put it nicely) in the documentation and
+man area.
+
+> Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+> receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+
+Most of these really are errors. That specific one is "known", and I
+have yet to figure how to remove it - Mailman recreates the link when
+a new message is received.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..806025f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some questions about network implementation + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some questions about network implementation

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:12:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello !
+Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+(http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/)
+It's based on Netscape Portable Runtime library (NSPR)
+and amed on creating high perfomance network applications.
+Look at documentation
+(http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html)
+>From documentation:
+
+It is contained in 8 source files as opposed to more than 400, but
+provides all the
+functionality that is needed to write efficient IAs on UNIX-like
+platforms.
+
+                     NSPR       State Threads
+ Lines of code     ~150,000      ~3000
+
+ Dynamic library size
+(debug version)
+ IRIX               ~700 KB   ~60 KB
+ Linux             ~900 KB  ~70 KB
+
+State Threads is an application library which provides a foundation for
+writing Internet Applications. To summarize, it has the following
+advantages:
+
+     It allows the design of fast and highly scalable applications. An
+application will scale well with both load and number of CPUs.
+     It greatly simplifies application programming and debugging
+because, as a rule, no mutual exclusion locking is necessary and the
+entire application is free to use static variables and non-reentrant
+library functions.
+
+The library's main limitation:
+     All I/O operations on sockets must use the State Thread library's
+I/O functions because only those functions perform thread scheduling and
+prevent the application's
+     processes from blocking.
+
+
+I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+according to the above document ?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7dad9869 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some questions about network implementation + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some questions about network implementation

+ Olivier Cado + cado@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:54:34 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello everybody !
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+> Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+> (http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/)
+>
+> I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+> according to the above document ?
+
+During the pre-production we studied various libraries, from the
+smallest to the biggest (such as ACE,
+http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html ). We didn't find the one of
+our dreams :-)
+
+At the moment we have implemented a simple networking system to work
+with our prototype that is coming soon.
+
+Thank you for your suggestion. We will study this library in detail.
+
+Regards,
+Olivier
+-- 
+Olivier Cado    ICQ: 67756413
+NEVRAX France   http://www.nevrax.com - http://www.nevrax.org
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a7f281ed --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation + + + + + + +

[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:19:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+The Nevrax team is please to announce, that there is some improvement on
+the GNU/Linux compilation :-)
+
+Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+
+There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+
+That's the first time that i'm playing around with automake / autoconf so
+you migth find (and you will) some ugly things. Be nice with us ... any
+suggestion will be welcome :-)
+
+
+Have fun and a nice week-end ...
+
+
+The Nevrax team.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4274065b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html @@ -0,0 +1,54 @@ + + + + [Nel] error in CVS? + + + + + + +

[Nel] error in CVS?

+ Stefan Nilsen + stefan.nilsen@telia.com
+ Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:18:06 +0100 +

+
+ +
I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks 
+lika a damaged CVS repository.
+
+cvs [server aborted]: unable to parse 
+/home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v; `state' not in the expected 
+place
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ea4c3e9d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] error in CVS? + + + + + + +

[Nel] error in CVS?

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:16:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+> I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks 
+> lika a damaged CVS repository.
+>  [...]
+
+Ouch ... sorry.
+
+It's fixed.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d4a2708f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux

+ David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?= + David.Mentre@irisa.fr
+ 28 Nov 2000 11:04:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi all nelers,
+
+Issue:
+
+ With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+ rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+ unset include path.
+
+Solution:
+
+ Use c++ as the default compiler for TRY_COMPILE macros.
+
+Path:
+
+--- configure.in.old    Tue Nov 28 10:22:18 2000
++++ configure.in        Tue Nov 28 10:50:10 2000
+@@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
+ dnl Checks for programs.
+ 
+ AC_PROG_MAKE_SET
++AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS
+ 
+ AC_PROG_CC
+ AC_PROG_CXX
+
+
+Comment:
+
+ With this patch, configures works properly. And compilation worked
+ until my quota was full. ;)
+
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..54cc9a00 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] CVS checkin by email + + + + + + +

[Nel] CVS checkin by email

+ David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?= + David.Mentre@irisa.fr
+ 28 Nov 2000 11:05:27 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi all,
+
+Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7bc405b0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] CVS checkin by email + + + + + + +

[Nel] CVS checkin by email

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:50:58 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to David Mentré:
+> Hi all,
+> 
+> Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+
+Well, if you want to be spammed continuously, that might be possible.
+I'll put something in the crontab to notify you every day :)
+
+Realistically, since you get full access to the development CVS tree,
+there is something done about every day in one part or another of the
+library. We do not have anything like the cvsup of FreeBSD so that you
+automatically would fetch the latest version everytime, but you can
+set a cron job if you like to to a cvs update every day around 23:00
+GMT. That's when we do a full resynchronise of the various CVS mirrors
+(in practice, the sync starts at 22:00 GMT, but you never know how long
+rsync will take across the 3 machines involved).
+
+We will post announces when there is something relatively major commited
+(like the day you'll get your first pictures, or like we did when the
+ compilation stuff on Linux boxes started working). Usually, we also do
+a manual resync at that time.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..668fe9b8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation + + + + + + +

[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation

+ David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?= + David.Mentre@irisa.fr
+ 28 Nov 2000 12:35:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+> instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+
+Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+machine. 
+
+> There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+
+Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+megs of nel library. :)
+
+BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..40a9555f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation + + + + + + +

[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:29:03 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to David Mentré:
+> BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+> order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+
+Well, yes and no. We'd like to keep the three (or at least two, NeL plus
+the client/server) separate or semi-separate entities, so that you can
+entirely replace client and server while keeping NeL.
+
+At some time, there will probably be an overall configure script, but that
+one will merely check the various parts, then call the 3 sub-directories
+configures with its what it just found.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ff25edec --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:40:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi David,
+
+David Mentré wrote:
+> 
+> Issue:
+> 
+>  With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+>  rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+>  unset include path.
+> [...]
+
+
+We just made the changes in CVS.
+
+Thanks for your help ... :-)
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f1ad36aa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation + + + + + + +

[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:02:58 +0100 +

+
+ +
David Mentré wrote:
+> 
+> Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+> machine. 
+
+Cool ... :-)
+
+> Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+> with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+> megs of nel library. :)
+
+hehe :-)
+
+At the moment, there is nothing really usable for the client, and the
+GNU/linux OpenGL driver has to be written ...
+
+For the server part, we have few things running and the GNU/Linux configure
+setup will be done soon ...
+
+So be patient ... :-)
+
+
+Bye.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7a4937d5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] pointers on documentation? + + + + + + +

[Nel] pointers on documentation?

+ David Mentre + David.Mentre@irisa.fr
+ 29 Nov 2000 12:55:21 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi all,
+
+I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as "Traversers", or what
+is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+
+Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+
+For the nel guys, is there any "Global Architecture Overview" paper
+planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+read a paper describing a typical interaction: "you setup object like
+this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+need at least this and that...". It needs not to be very precise, but
+fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+
+Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+priority list. ;)
+
+Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+we could write an architecture description paper.
+
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000065.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000065.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6ab4ca99 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000065.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation? + + + + + + +

[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:16:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+> 
+
+you can look at this book : 3D Game Engine Design
+by David H. Eberly
+or at this website : http://www.flipcode.com/
+
+> For the nel guys, is there any "Global Architecture Overview" paper
+> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+> read a paper describing a typical interaction: "you setup object like
+> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+> need at least this and that...". It needs not to be very precise, but
+> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+> 
+> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+> priority list. ;)
+> 
+> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+> we could write an architecture description paper.
+> 
+> 
+> d.
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000066.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000066.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a96a180c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000066.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Distributed server algo + + + + + + +

[Nel] Distributed server algo

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:38:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+What algo will you be using?
+Will each server handle a specific cube in object space?
+
+I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is 
+possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+
+Regards,
+David
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0bc5e9a7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] pointers on documentation? + + + + + + +

[Nel] pointers on documentation?

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:02:21 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi David,
+
+We have started a kind of "NeL Programmer Guide". You can acces it from
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html We have some topics there,
+but nothing about MOT (Model Observer Traversal) yet. The guide grow up with
+the
+code so stay tuned!
+
+For information, MOT is inspired by Java 3d architecture.
+
+Bye.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "David Mentre" <David.Mentre@irisa.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:55 PM
+Subject: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+
+
+> Hi all,
+>
+> I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+> areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as "Traversers", or what
+> is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+>
+> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+>
+> For the nel guys, is there any "Global Architecture Overview" paper
+> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+> read a paper describing a typical interaction: "you setup object like
+> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+> need at least this and that...". It needs not to be very precise, but
+> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+>
+> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+> priority list. ;)
+>
+> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+> we could write an architecture description paper.
+>
+>
+> d.
+> --
+>  David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+>  Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000068.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000068.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eb760e7f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000068.html @@ -0,0 +1,481 @@ + + + +¤¸¤j¨ÊµØ±á°T¡GÄ­ÆC¤Ï¼u + + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
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+
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+
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+ +¤¸¤j¨ÊµØ±á°T¡GÄ­ÆC¤Ï¼u + + +(2001/3/02 +) +
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+
¡E +¥x¨|´Á³f¡G¥xªÑ­«®À +.. + +
+
¡E +¼Ú¬w¥D­nªÑ¥«¦¬½L¦æ +.. + +
+
¡E +²ü»È«ØijBªÑ§ë¸ê¤H +.. + +
+
¡E +µØÄ_:DRAM®w¦s +.. + +
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + +
+
+ +¡@µØµø¥x¥vÀ]¡E
+µØµø¤å¤Æ¤½¥q¡E
+µØµø°V½m¤¤¤ß¡E + +
+		 +
+ +¤¤µØ¹qµøªÑ¥÷¦³­­¤½¥q www.cts.com.tw ª©Åv©Ò¦³
+ 2000 CTS Inc. All Rights Reserved. Established 1997-01-03
+ 106 ¥x¥_¥«¥ú´_«n¸ô100¸¹ Tel: (02)2751-0321 µØµøªA°È«H½c +		 +
+ + ¡E¸`¥Ø¯d¨¥ªO
+ ¡EµØµøÁ`¸g²z«H½c
+ ¡E·s»D¥D¼½«H½c + +
+
+ + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f253987d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Nel] Status question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Status question

+ MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:18:42 +0100 (MET) +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior 
+experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 
+overall project?
+
+Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+
+I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+
+
+Regards,
+Miguel
+
+BTW Have you ever though about reusing other GPL projects source?
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000070.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000070.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eefd05c0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000070.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ + + + + [Nel] Distributed server algo + + + + + + +

[Nel] Distributed server algo

+ Stefan Nilsen + stefan.nilsen@telia.com
+ Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:02:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Wednesday 29 November 2000 15:38, david.belius@chello.se wrote:
+> I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+> Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is
+> possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+
+WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000071.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000071.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e37aa386 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000071.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Distributed server algo + + + + + + +

[Nel] Distributed server algo

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:10:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
massively multiplayer online real time strategy
+(game like stracraft but massively online)
+
+> 
+> WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000072.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000072.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..58f6cc0a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000072.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] Distributed server algo + + + + + + +

[Nel] Distributed server algo

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:50:38 +0100 +

+
+ +
--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 03:38:54PM +0100, david.belius@chello.se wrote:
+> Hi,
+> i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+> What algo will you be using?
+
+Dunno if it could be related, but the word =AB distributed =BB made me flas=
+h ;-)
+I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]), with
+the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal language which d=
+oes
+has nice features about distribution. Maybe that could be worth a look,
+although I'm still not sure an interpreted language is really usable for
+something like NeL or STAGE...=20
+
+	Best regards,
+
+		Shaman
+
+[1] http://www.worldforge.org
+[2] http://www.erlang.org =20
+    http://www.erlang-fr.org (under construction)
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard              |             =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |    =20
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir http://www.gnupg.org
+
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+TsUAnRtzTz+qdhL90GIDITtRT8cAMZ8m
+=AUVC
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000073.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000073.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3f993b80 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000073.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo) + + + + + + +

[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)

+ David Mentre + David.Mentre@irisa.fr
+ 30 Nov 2000 08:59:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
Thierry Mallard <thierry@mallard.com> writes:
+
+> I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]),
+> with the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal
+> language which does has nice features about distribution.
+
+You could also have a look at Objective Caml[1]. It is a functionnal
+language (ML style with type inference for those interested) but with
+modules and object oriented capabilities. It has not pre-build
+distributed facilities but toolkits have been built on it, like
+Ensemble[2].
+
+On Erlang, one thing to notice is that reliability is in charge of the
+programmer. But maybe your are involved in some other projects using
+Erlang. ;)
+
+>  Maybe that could be worth a look, although I'm still not sure an
+> interpreted language is really usable for something like NeL or
+> STAGE...
+
+OCaml can be compiled in both bytecode and native code for about any
+platform (from ARM to Alpha through x86 [2b]). And people have made
+hacks to dynamically load bytecode and native code into
+programs[3]. Also notice that bytecode is portable across platforms.
+
+Sorry if it is a bit of topic, but I could not resist for this blatant
+advertising. ;) And maybe NeL will have more that just Python support...
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+
+[1] http://caml.inria.fr/
+[2] http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/Projects/Ensemble/index.html
+[2b] http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/portability.html
+[3] http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200011/msg00180.html
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@irisa.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000074.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000074.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..68f89776 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000074.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Status question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Status question

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:19:13 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+> I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior 
+> experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 
+> overall project?
+> 
+> Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+
+None of the above? :)
+
+The game itself is somewhere between planning and alpha. We are approaching
+the date of our first internal prototype, but we know what the game itself
+is about, how it will play (in terms of game), and how we are structuring
+the NeL platform and how it is used to develop the real game.
+
+> I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+
+Depend on what you call running. You do not have a 3D scene and interface
+available yet, for example, but you have several services for the building
+of the server part.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a42fa7fb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-November Archive by Author + + + +

2000-November Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000
+ Ending: Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Messages: 73

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Archived on: Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3514789e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-November Archive by Date + + + +

2000-November Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000
+ Ending: Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Messages: 73

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Archived on: Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..02ee5bff --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,251 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-November Archive by Thread + + + +

2000-November Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000
+ Ending: Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Messages: 73

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Archived on: Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7d9ce067 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-November Archive by Subject + + + +

2000-November Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000
+ Ending: Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Messages: 73

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Archived on: Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..02ee5bff --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,251 @@ + + + + The Nel 2000-November Archive by Thread + + + +

2000-November Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000
+ Ending: Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Messages: 73

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000
+ Archived on: Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7fce366d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000392.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ + + + + [Nel] Subscribe Me + + + + + + +

[Nel] Subscribe Me

+ Brandon + brandon_425@yahoo.com
+ Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT) +

+
+ +
 
+ 
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
+http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6edaeeaa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000393.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ + + + + [Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net + + + + + + +

[Nel] Mark Ewert ewert@reflexnet.net

+ Brandon + brandon_425@yahoo.com
+ Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT) +

+
+ +
Mark,
+
+I noticed that you had reflexnet.net also as your ISP. I can't
+believe they pulled the carpet right out from under us and went
+bankrupt. Technology is funny these days.  Just like the stock
+market. Ouch!!!  :)  Funny huh?  I found a great new ISP, let me
+know if you want the info or if you could give me some help
+finding a new ISP.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Brandon
+brandon_425@yahoo.com
+Home: 503.605.5433
+
+
+--- nel-request@nevrax.org wrote:
+> Welcome to the Nel@nevrax.org mailing list!
+> 
+> To post to this list, send your email to:
+> 
+>   nel@nevrax.org
+> 
+> General information about the mailing list is at:
+> 
+>   http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg,
+> switch to
+> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
+> subscription page at:
+> 
+>  
+>
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/options.cgi/nel/brandon_425@yahoo.com
+> 
+> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a
+> message to:
+> 
+>   Nel-request@nevrax.org
+> 
+> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
+> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
+> 
+> You must know your password to change your options (including
+> changing
+> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:
+> 
+>   by09661
+> 
+> If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a
+> monthly
+> reminder telling you what all your nevrax.org mailing list
+> passwords
+> are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options.  There is
+> also a
+> button on your options page that will email your current
+> password to
+> you.
+> 
+> You may also have your password mailed to you automatically
+> off of the
+> Web page noted above.
+
+
+__________________________________________________
+Do You Yahoo!?
+Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
+http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f0770969 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000394.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right? + + + + + + +

[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?

+ robert@thatsnice.org + robert@thatsnice.org
+ Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:47:53 -0700 (PDT) +

+
+ +
Hello again Nevrax folks,
+
+I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+to get involved again.
+
+Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is
+collaboration with the community.  We're not just here to bug you. :)
+
+Hope everything's going well.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life."
+<robert@got.net>                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fbb8d5f1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000395.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right? + + + + + + +

[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:52:53 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hello Robert,
+
+robert@thatsnice.org wrote:
+> 
+> Don't forget that one of the selling points of free software is
+> collaboration with the community.  We're not just here to bug you. :)
+
+hehe ... i think that we quite aware of that :-)
+
+We are just meeting some of our own internal Milestones so, as you guess,
+we are quite busy at the moment.
+
+Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+
+A new version of Snowball sould be done for the first of May. That new
+version will use the new network and 3D implementation of NeL.
+
+So don't worry, we didn't forget you, it's just that we are very busy.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..57c6c651 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000396.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right? + + + + + + +

[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?

+ David Mentre + David.Mentre@inria.fr
+ 10 Apr 2001 09:17:41 +0200 +

+
+ +
Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+> the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+
+About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen?
+Automata over kernel threads?
+
+BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but
+did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests?
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5a171923 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000397.html @@ -0,0 +1,56 @@ + + + + [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right? + + + + + + +

[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:01:48 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hello Robert
+
+> I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+> you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+> to get involved again.
+
+What kind of project you are working on ?
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b9b5a28a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000398.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right? + + + + + + +

[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, right?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:35:06 +0200 +

+
+ +
According to David Mentre:
+> Cedric Valignat <valignat@nevrax.com> writes:
+> > Our 3D team are redisigning NeL's 3d interfaces, the network is redisigning
+> > the networks layers, and are curently working on the documentation too ...
+> 
+> About the network layer, what is the design you have finally chosen?
+> Automata over kernel threads?
+
+We're finishing the design docs, which will explain exactly how we're
+going to work. Can't explain further yet. You'll have to wait a little bit
+more for these to appear on the web/CVS.
+
+> BTW, have you setup unit tests? I had a (very) quick glance at code but
+> did not found any. Would you be interested in such tests?
+
+We haven't any formal test system for elementary modules. There are some
+self-contained examples in the nel/samples directory that show how some
+modules work, and which could easily be turned into testbeds to check
+functionality.
+
+If you think you can find better examples, or put added examples that
+can serve as tests at the same time, your contribution will be well
+appreciated.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000399.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000399.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..639b02a5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000399.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ + + + + [Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right? + + + + + + +

[Nel] You guys will let us know when you're done mucking about, + right?

+ robert@thatsnice.org + robert@thatsnice.org
+ Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:35:01 -0700 (PDT) +

+
+ +
[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
+> Hello Robert
+> 
+> > I'm still interested in using NeL in a project, and I wanted to prod
+> > you guys and see how things are coming along, and when we'll be able
+> > to get involved again.
+> 
+> What kind of project you are working on ?
+
+Why a 3d MUD, of course.
+
+I started out on a MOO, then got into ColdMUD, which then begat this
+project:
+
+coldstore.sourceforge.net
+
+Which is just the back-end, and is embrionic still.
+
+My goal is to replace all the MMORPGs with a decentralized free
+alternative.  Of course, this would compete with Nevrax, but that will
+just encourage them to be better. :)
+
+I think Nevrax has the best philosophical approach to this problem of
+any commercial effort, and I applaud them.  However, since I don't
+work there, and I still want to work on these problems, I work for
+free.
+
+The particular subject I wish to tackle with an MMORPG is the social
+experimentation subject.  This has been tried before in text-based
+adventures (LambdaMOO and its descendents), but never on a large
+enough scale or with new technology.
+
+I want to see if we can learn something as a culture by creating a
+super dynamic world with maximum "player" input into the universe and
+maybe solve some of our differences inside that world.  Then maybe we
+can carry those lessons to the outside world.
+
+My experiment would NOT be a game.  It would also not be a pure
+simulation because we just don't have that technology yet, either in
+input and output or in resources to process or computer it.  It would
+be a rough analogy of life, and would try to put everyone at roughly
+the same level of world interaction, within reason.  It would be based
+heavily on life as we know it, but with an accelerated time scale.
+
+I try not to think too much about whether I actually expect this to
+ever happen or be popular. :)
+
+Thanks for asking!
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life."
+<robert@got.net>                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000400.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000400.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2121389f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000400.html @@ -0,0 +1,325 @@ + + + + [Nel] proposed control changes + + + + + + +

[Nel] proposed control changes

+ Dan Erikson + derikson@montana.com
+ Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:49:18 -0600 +

+
+ +
Hi all, this is kind of long, sorry.  I had some thoughts that I'd like to
+get some feedback on, and some code that you might find useful.
+
+I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so
+that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window
+and move the mouse in order to move the view around.  This is a change
+from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the
+application.  This allows one to use other applications while the game
+is running.  I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at
+the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons.  It'll also alow
+for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of
+the screen.  The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on
+windows.  It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone 
+would test it.
+
+I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already 
+in use
+for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would
+work better:
+
+* Left mouse button to move the view around
+* Right mouse button to move forward
+* Space button to throw a snowball
+* Enter button to enter chat mode
+     After text is typed and enter is pressed, return from chat mode
+* Mousewheel forward to zoom in
+* Mousewheel backwards to zoom out
+* Left button turns the view left normally
+* If control+left or left_mouse+left, then strafe left
+* Right button turns the view right normally
+* If control+right or left_mouse+right, then strafe right
+
+The normal mode/chat mode allows us to use the keys for functionality rather
+than F1-F12, which is a little harder to remember than something like 
+'r' for
+toggle radar.  Also, there are a limited number of function buttons, so I
+think having access to all the other keys would allow good future expansion.
+
+The changes to the mouse buttons allows one to move around the world using
+only the mouse.
+
+It would also be nice to have the ability to customize these keys, but 
+that's
+something for a little later.
+
+If anyone has any comments about this stuff, I'd love to hear them.
+
+Patch to use right mouse button to move the heading around:
+
+Index: move_listener.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -c -r1.23 move_listener.cpp
+*** move_listener.cpp    2001/04/10 10:20:48    1.23
+--- move_listener.cpp    2001/04/13 02:21:30
+***************
+*** 54,63 ****
+  \****************************************************************/
+  CMoveListener::CMoveListener()
+  {
+!     _MouseFree = false;
+    
+-     _CursorInit = false;
+-
+     _Width = 0;
+     _Height = 0;
+ 
+--- 54,61 ----
+  \****************************************************************/
+  CMoveListener::CMoveListener()
+  {
+!     _MouseFree = true;
+    
+     _Width = 0;
+     _Height = 0;
+ 
+***************
+*** 184,190 ****
+  \****************************************************************/
+  void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent& event)
+  {
+!     static const float eps = 0.001f;
+ 
+     // Rotation
+     if (event==EventMouseMoveId)
+--- 182,188 ----
+  \****************************************************************/
+  void CMoveListener::operator()(const CEvent& event)
+  {
+!     static const float eps = 0.002f;
+ 
+     // Rotation
+     if (event==EventMouseMoveId)
+***************
+*** 196,240 ****
+ 
+         if(!_MouseFree)
+         {
+!             if(_CursorInit)
+             {
+!                 float difx =  0.5f-mouseEvent->X;
+!                 float dify =  -(0.5f-mouseEvent->Y);
+!                 if( (float)fabs(difx) > eps || (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+                 {
+!                     if ( (float)fabs(difx) > eps)
+!                     {
+!                          LocalArea->User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) );
+                     }
+!                     if ( (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+!                     {
+!                          LocalArea->User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify);
+!                          if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch>(float)Pi/2)
+!                          {
+!                              LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2;
+!                          }
+!                          if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch<-(float)Pi/2)
+!                          {
+!                              LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2;
+!                          }
+                     }
+-                     _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(0.5,0.5);
+                 }
+               }
+-               else
+-               {
+-                   _CursorInit = true;
+-                 _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(0.5,0.5);
+-               }
+         }
+     }
+  
+ 
+ 
+-     // Shoot with left mouse button
+     if ( event==EventMouseDownId)
+     {
+         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event;
+         if(mouseEvent->Button==leftButton && CanShot)
+         {
+             if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) && ClientSocket->connected() )
+--- 194,230 ----
+ 
+         if(!_MouseFree)
+         {
+!             float difx =  _MouseLockX-mouseEvent->X;
+!             float dify =  -(_MouseLockY-mouseEvent->Y);
+!             if( (float)fabs(difx) > eps || (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+             {
+!                 if ( (float)fabs(difx) > eps)
+!                 {
+!                     LocalArea->User.yaw( _RotSpeed*(difx) );
+!                 }
+!                 if ( (float)fabs(dify) > eps)
+                 {
+!                     LocalArea->User.ViewPitch += _RotSpeed*(dify);
+!                     if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch>(float)Pi/2)
+!                      {
+!                         LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = (float)Pi/2;
+                     }
+!                     if(LocalArea->User.ViewPitch<-(float)Pi/2)
+!                      {
+!                         LocalArea->User.ViewPitch = -(float)Pi/2;
+                     }
+                 }
++                 _Scene->getDriver()->setMousePos(_MouseLockX,_MouseLockY);
+               }
+         }
+     }
+  
+ 
+ 
+     if ( event==EventMouseDownId)
+     {
+         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event;
++         // Shoot with left mouse button
+         if(mouseEvent->Button==leftButton && CanShot)
+         {
+             if ( (ClientSocket!=NULL) && ClientSocket->connected() )
+***************
+*** 249,254 ****
+--- 239,259 ----
+                 }
+             }
+         }
++         if(mouseEvent->Button==rightButton && _MouseFree)
++         {
++             _MouseLockX = mouseEvent->X;
++             _MouseLockY = mouseEvent->Y;
++             changeControlMode();
++         }
++     }
++
++     if(event==EventMouseUpId)
++     {
++         CEventMouse* mouseEvent=(CEventMouse*)&event;
++         if(mouseEvent->Button==rightButton && !_MouseFree)
++         {
++             changeControlMode();
++         }
+     }
+  }
+ 
+***************
+*** 260,265 ****
+--- 265,271 ----
+  {
+     server.addListener (EventMouseMoveId, this);
+     server.addListener (EventMouseDownId, this);
++     server.addListener (EventMouseUpId, this);
+  }
+ 
+ 
+***************
+*** 270,274 ****
+--- 276,281 ----
+  {
+     server.removeListener (EventMouseMoveId, this);
+     server.removeListener (EventMouseDownId, this);
++     server.removeListener (EventMouseUpId, this);
+  }
+ 
+Index: move_listener.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/move_listener.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.15
+diff -c -r1.15 move_listener.h
+*** move_listener.h    2001/03/05 09:39:44    1.15
+--- move_listener.h    2001/04/13 02:21:30
+***************
+*** 119,127 ****
+     /// Internal use
+     virtual void operator()(const NLMISC::CEvent& event);
+    
+-     /// true if first setMousePos done
+-     bool _CursorInit;
+-
+     CScene * _Scene;
+    
+     /// screen width
+--- 119,124 ----
+***************
+*** 155,160 ****
+--- 152,160 ----
+     float _MouseY;
+ 
+     bool _Shot;
++
++     float _MouseLockX;
++     float _MouseLockY;
+  };
+ 
+ 
+Index: client.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/client/src/client.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.177
+diff -c -r1.177 client.cpp
+*** client.cpp    2001/04/12 17:06:42    1.177
+--- client.cpp    2001/04/13 02:22:13
+***************
+*** 1880,1893 ****
+     LocalArea->setEntityMovedCallback( moveEntityInstance );
+     LocalArea->setEntityRemovedCallback( deleteEntityInstance );
+ 
+-     // hide mouse cursor
+-     CNELU::Driver->showCursor(false);
+- #ifdef NL_RELEASE
+-     CNELU::Driver->setCapture(true);
+- #endif
+-
+-
+-
+     // Load meshes
+     /*
+     vector<string>::iterator itshp;
+--- 1880,1885 ----
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5d6ea3bb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000401.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] proposed control changes + + + + + + +

[Nel] proposed control changes

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:41:25 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+Dan Erikson wrote:
+> 
+> I've put together a patch that changes the mouse control in snowballs so
+> that the mouse is normally free, and you have to click on the window
+> and move the mouse in order to move the view around.  This is a change
+> from the current behavior where the mouse is always locked by the
+> application.  This allows one to use other applications while the game
+> is running.  I've even used it to have two instances of snowball running at
+> the same time, which should be useful for testing reasons.  It'll also alow
+> for using the mouse in the future for clicking on controls on other parts of
+> the screen.  The only thing I'm not sure about is how well it will work on
+> windows.  It looks like it'll work, but it would be nice if someone 
+> would test it.
+
+Nice :-)
+
+I'm going to take a look on that next week and i will test it on windows
+before to integrate the patch. I will keep you inform of the results :-)
+
+> I used the right mouse button because the left mouse button is already 
+> in use
+> for throwing a snowball, but I think these changes to the controls would
+> work better:
+> [...]
+
+The control configuration is a very personal thing, we choose a quite common
+way to configure the moves control ... but it wiil be nice to be able to
+easly configure them :-)
+
+I do agree with you on the Function keys and the ability to be able to use
+the other keys of the keyboard ... migth be nice to have ;-)
+
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..feee946b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000402.html @@ -0,0 +1,123 @@ + + + + [Nel] A small document for your consumption + + + + + + +

[Nel] A small document for your consumption

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:34:53 +0200 +

+
+ +
While waiting for the whole load, here's a quick and short document. Look
+at it, and critique your hearts out...
+
+Client server connect
+
+This document describes quickly the connection process of a client to a world
+running a NeL-based system.
+
+Abbreviations
+-------------
+
+LS: The login service (one overall)
+WS: The welcome service (one for each world)
+FES: The front-end service (N per world)
+
+Steps
+-----
+
+1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied
+   IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP
+   resolution.
+
+   Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS
+   spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client.
+   However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location.
+
+2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+
+3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all
+   available worlds according to account information and current system
+   settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that
+   world.
+
+   Note: DNS is not used in that step.
+
+4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+   of its world service to the LS.
+
+5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection
+   desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the
+   incoming connection.
+
+   Note: The cookie includes the client's IP, as seen by the LS (to avoid
+   address translation problems) for validation.
+
+6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie
+   to the FES.
+
+7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS.
+
+8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and
+   indicates the IP/port of the selected FES.
+
+9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the
+   IP/port of the selected FES.
+
+10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+
+11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+
+12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES.
+
+13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie.
+
+Side notes
+----------
+
+Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS,
+using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two
+physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message
+serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..50a2b06f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000403.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] A small document for your consumption + + + + + + +

[Nel] A small document for your consumption

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:59:43 +0200 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> Steps
+> -----
+> 
+> 1: The client initiates a connection to the login service, using the supplied
+>    IP and port from the configuration file, with the help of the DNS for IP
+>    resolution.
+> 
+>    Note: DNS spoofing or configuration file modification can lead to LS
+>    spoofing and hacking of the login/password information of the client.
+>    However, DNS is needed for flexibility of the login service location.
+
+Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ?
+(dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...)
+
+> 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+
+In plaintext ?
+
+> 3: The LS checks the login/password validity, and builds the list of all
+>    available worlds according to account information and current system
+>    settings. This list contains world names and the IP for the WS of that
+>    world.
+
+Maybe the use of challenges would be more secure, but i'm not a specialist in
+this matter :-(
+
+> 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+>    of its world service to the LS.
+
+Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ?
+(then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS)
+
+> [...]
+> 10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+> 
+> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+
+I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS
+_after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes
+wrong, the client could goto 4 directly.
+
+
+Best regards,
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              | http://vawis.net
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | http://erlang-fr.org (new)
+key 0xA3D021CB               | http://worldforge.org
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000404.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000404.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cde29a46 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000404.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ + + + + [Nel] A small document for your consumption + + + + + + +

[Nel] A small document for your consumption

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:33:31 +0200 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Apr 13, 2001 at 11:34:53AM +0200, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> Steps
+> -----
+> [...]
+> 5: The LS sends a notification to the selected WS of the client's connection
+>    desires. It generates and submits a single-use cookie to validate the
+>    incoming connection.
+
+The LS <--> WS connection should be studied, perhaps ?
+(if it wasn't intended in this document, then let's see that later.. ;-) )
+
+[ *err.. ok i just read the end on the original mail, just forget it* ]
+
+> 6: The WS selects a FES to accept the client connexion, and submits the cookie
+>    to the FES.
+> 
+> 7: The FES acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the WS.
+
+So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ?
+-- the balancing being done at network level, not process level --
+
+> 8: The WS acknowledges its capacity to accept the client to the LS, and
+>    indicates the IP/port of the selected FES.
+> 
+> 9: The LS acknowledges the login request to the client, and indicates the
+>    IP/port of the selected FES.
+> 
+> 10: The client disconnects from the LS.
+> 
+> 11: The client initiates a connection to the indicated FES.
+> 
+> 12: The client sends the submitted cookie to the FES.
+> 
+> 13: The FES validates and acknowledges the cookie.
+
+IMHO, as said in the other mail, the client should then disconnect from the
+LS ; not before. The downside I see in this case would be the extended time of
+connection (steps 11 et 13), which will lead to more network load. I don't see
+how important that would be.
+
+> Side notes
+> ----------
+> 
+> Whenever a world starts, the WS establishes a permanent link with the LS,
+> using an encrypted link (it is assumed that the LS and WS are located on two
+> physically and probably geographically distinct networks). A 'SHARD' message
+> serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+> name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+> to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+
+ok, so i should have read the whole document before arguing ;-))
+
+Hope this helps..
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              | http://vawis.net
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net | http://erlang-fr.org (new)
+key 0xA3D021CB               | http://worldforge.org
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2bd73e60 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000405.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] CVS tree changes + + + + + + +

[Nel] CVS tree changes

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:58:19 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hello everybody,
+
+We have made some small changement in the CVS tree about Snowballs :
+
+   - a directory "code/snowballs" was created. This directory contain 2
+     subdirectories : "client" & "server".
+
+   - the "code/client" files were moved to "code/snowballs/client".
+
+   - the "code/server/moves_service" was moved to "code/snowballs/server/moves_service".
+
+
+It ws a little mess and we had to clen it up, so as the client directory was
+*only* the snowballs client and the mose_service was used only for running
+a snowballs shard we decided to move these diretories in a more appropriate
+directory.
+
+Some of the txt file were not corrected yet so you migth find them quite
+innacurate ... that will be fixed tomorow ...
+
+Otherwise, the "code/server" directory will be renamed to "code/nelns"
+(standing for NeL Network Service) and will contain our services
+to run a generic shard, services that aren't part of the games
+services but are necessary to run a shard ...
+
+
+Have fune :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dbfb28e8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000406.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns + + + + + + +

[Nel] CVS code/server renamed to code nelns

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:08 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+As i told about in my preceding mail, the CVS code/server directory was renamed
+to code nelns (standing for NeL Network Services).
+
+So you will get that new structure from tonigth CVS synchronization ...
+
+
+Have a good time ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000407.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000407.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e39ca9de --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000407.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] A small document for your consumption + + + + + + +

[Nel] A small document for your consumption

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 17 Apr 2001 12:27:13 +0200 +

+
+ +
I'll answer both posts at the same time...
+
+According to Thierry Mallard:
+> Possibly this can be partially avoided by providing your own DN Server's IP ?
+> (dunno precisly how the client would connect to it, but still...)
+
+There are two ways you can find out a server:
+
+1) Hardcode the IP address (then, you cannot move the server)
+2) Use DNS for dynamic IP (then, the hardcoded address is the root of the
+	DNS tree - which, hopefully, changes even less often than we will)
+
+You can't specify your "own DNS". Using that is basically the same as
+using method 1: you still have to put a server at a static IP that gives
+you off the dynamic IP.
+
+> > 2: The client submits its login, password, and system capabilities.
+> 
+> In plaintext ?
+
+If we assume the link has a crypt method in it, why not.
+
+Three possible methods for password submission
+
+1) Plaintext, assuming the connection has a form of crypt in place
+2) MD5/crypt password. Spoofable, since:
+	a) You can capture the MD5/crypt string
+	b) You have the client source, so can hack it to send the static
+		crypted password instead of crypting the - unknown - plaintext
+3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the
+	current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first
+	bytes of the MD5 digest.
+
+> > 4: The client selects the world it wants to log on, and submits the IP address
+> >    of its world service to the LS.
+> 
+> Would it be good if the client could select several worlds ?
+> (then the negociation following could use this to get a good WS)
+
+Not good. Typically, the client will connect to the world the player has
+a character he wants to play today :)
+
+However, the client may use the IP addresses of the WS to ping them and
+figure out which connection is better (when selecting its first world).
+
+> So the WS is (or can be?) a load-balancer to all the FES in a given world ?
+> -- the balancing being done at network level, not process level --
+
+The WS *is* the load balancing mechanism. Since he's aware of all FES
+up and running, and knows their load right now, he's best suited to
+determine which FES can afford to manage a new character.
+
+> I wonder if it couldn't be more interesting if the client disconnects from LS
+> _after_ having initiated the connection to the FES. Then, if something goes
+> wrong, the client could goto 4 directly.
+
+Hmmm, that might be good, yes.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2ddc5c96 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000408.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Status Update? + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Status Update?

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Tue, 17 Apr 2001 14:10:03 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start =
+putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such.  =
+The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works for NeL, and =
+we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's =
+textures.
+
+Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed =
+documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will =
+work with it?
+
+Thanks,
+
+Jared Mark
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My game project has gotten to the point where I am =
+ready to=20
+start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and=20
+such.&nbsp; The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure works =
+for NeL,=20
+and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for =
+it's=20
+textures.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS =
+plugin,=20
+and&nbsp;detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my =
+world, so=20
+NeL will work with it?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C0C748.1901E060--
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2e1cae7e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000409.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Status Update? + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Status Update?

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:55:25 +0200 +

+
+ +
E> My game project has gotten to the point where I am ready to start putting the world together, and doing some logic/AI scripting and such.  The problem is, I have no idea how the data structure
+E> works for NeL, and we still have no access to the 3D Studio plugin that NeL needs for it's textures.
+
+E> Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work with it?
+
+As  I  noted  earlier, IMHO the  best solution for all of us, will be open
+format  of  NeL's  data files and accompanying stuff. In such a case we
+will be free to write converters from our favorite 3D tools XYZ to the NeL
+format. But I  can  predict  changes in format of NeL files to extend the
+current  set  of features. Just like DWG file format was always closed
+to  the  most  of  us and was subject of permanent changes, DXF file format was opened to everyone, so  I'm
+offer  not  too  stick  to  the  current implementation of NeL's binary file
+format,  but just invent some formal data format which will be the same for NeL as DXF
+is for DWG (let's name it NFF - NelFileFormat). In such a case Nevrax team create translator
+from  NFF  to  the  internal representation and the people outside the
+Nevrax  create translator from format XYZ to the NFF. With addition of
+new  features  and  other  format  changes  Nevrax make changes to the
+NFF2INTERNAL  and  we  make changes to the XYZ2NFF As a consequence of
+such  a  decision Nevrax will be free to change internal stuff without
+breaking  users  world's data and users always can store their data in
+some  intermediate  format.  Just imagine the situation. Nevrax add new
+really  cool features to the game and release new internal file format
+with  new  release  of engine. What happen with users worlds which are
+incompatible with new version ? I think you may guess ;)
+But  if  along  with  a  new  version  Nevrax will release a new version of
+converter  NFF2INTERNAL  the  problem  will be solved. This converter takes
+care  about  all internal changes and user's data will be on-line again
+within short period of time.
+
+What's about standard XML as a basement?  :)
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart
+
+PS.  May  be  I'm  completely  wrong  and  Nevrax  team  has a better
+solution?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..03c5f96e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000410.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Status Update? + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Status Update?

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:06:03 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+> E> Is there any way I can get an ETA on that 3DS plugin, and detailed
+documentation of how to structure the data for my world, so NeL will work
+with it?
+
+What you said about the NeL file format makes a lot of sense,  and it match
+what we planned to do in a near future.
+
+Actually, i'm going to describe the current data management.
+
+Today, our export plug-ins generate NeL binary files using the NeL
+serialisation system.
+The serialisation system is described in the document inserted at the end of
+the mail. This document
+will be available on the web site in the Doxygen Related Pages during the
+next week.
+
+Here is the URL of another document that describes how to build NeL 3d data
+from your 3d editor and export them in NeL binary format:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/3d_data_howto.html
+
+---
+
+NeL Files and Serialisation
+
+* Introduction
+
+This is really quite a difficult subject to write about - so this file is an
+introduction which describes the basic features and principles of our
+system.
+
+
+* How our files work in NeL
+
+The NeL files are NOT designed to be man-readable.  Interpretation and
+generation of file contents is performed by the objects that are to be read
+and written using a standardised mechanism. This mechanism was inspired by
+the system provided by Java.
+
+We use the term 'serialisable' to describe a class  that can be read from/
+written to a NeL data file.
+Counter-intuitive as it may, at first, appear, each 'serialisable' class
+supplies a single method that is used for both reading and writing.
+
+Note that the files are encoded in little-endian and that the NeL library
+code deals with conversion of endian-ness for big-endian platforms
+
+
+* Serialisation beyond files
+
+The serialisation system can be used for generating binary data buffers in
+memory (without writing the result to a file) or for packing and unpacking
+data for transfer over a LAN.
+
+
+* How it works
+
+Technically, we define a 'serialisable' class as a class that can be passed
+to IStream::serial().
+In order for a class to be serialisable it is sufficient for it to include
+the following method:
+ void serial(IStream&).
+The fact that we use a template method definition means that a serialisable
+class does not have to be derived from any other class.
+All standard types are serialisable due to a non-template prototypes shown
+below.
+STL containers of serialisable types are serialisadble
+Pointers to non-polymorphic serialisable types are serialisable.
+
+The IStream class definition looks something like this:
+
+ class IStream
+ {
+ ...
+  void serial (int&);
+  void serial (float&);
+ ...
+  template <class T> void serial (T&t)
+  {
+   t.serial (*this);
+  }
+ };
+
+
+Example:
+To make the following class serialisable:
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  int a,b;
+ };
+
+you would need to extend the class as follows:
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  int a,b;
+  void serial (IStream&istream)
+  {
+   istream.serial(a);
+   istream.serial(b);
+  }
+ };
+
+The following example shows how to serialise a more complicated data
+structure
+
+ class myFirstClass
+ {
+  void serial (IStream&);
+ };
+
+ class myclass
+ {
+  int     BaseType;
+  myFirstClass    SerialisableClass
+  std::vector< myFirstClass>  STLContainerOfSerialisableClass;
+  myFirstClass    *PointerToSerialisableClass;
+  std::vector< myFirstClass*>  STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass;
+
+  void serial (IStream&istream)
+  {
+   istream.serial(BaseType);
+   istream.serial(SerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialCont(STLContainerOfSerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialPtr(PointerToSerialisableClass);
+   istream.serialContPtr(STLContainerOfPointersToSerialisableClass);
+  }
+ };
+
+
+
+* Dealing with cross referenced or hierarchical data
+
+If an object contains a pointer to another object in memory then the
+serialPtr() method is used to read/ write the referenced object.
+The NeL library code writes a value corresponding to the pointer to the
+serialised data, followed by the data that the pointer points to (In the
+case of a NULL pointer the value 0 is written without any following data)
+The NeL library code automatically deals with the cases where two or more
+objects reference the same object or there is a circular reference.  Each
+time a pointer is de-referenced, for writing, NeL checks against a table of
+previous pointers;  if the pointer value already exists in the table then no
+data is written.  At read time the data structures are faithfully
+reconstructed.
+
+
+* Dealing with polymorphism within cross referenced data
+
+In a nut shell, in order to un-serialise a data record that one only has an
+interface type for, one needs to store an additional identifier with the
+data record that identifies it's real type.  The mechanism for doing this is
+best shown with an example:
+
+ class IBaseClass : public IStreamable
+ {
+  // This class is an interface. It is polymorphic.
+  virtual void foo ()=0;
+
+  // It must declare it's name
+  NLMISC_DECLARE_CLASS (MyClass);
+ };
+
+ class CClassToSerialise
+ {
+  IBaseClass  *PointerToAPolymorphicClass;
+
+  void serial (IStream& s)
+  {
+   s.serialPolyPtr (PointerToAPolymorphicClass);
+  }
+ };
+
+ void main ()
+ {
+ ...
+  // The polymorphic class must be registered in the registry
+  NLMISC_REGISTER_CLASS (MyClass);
+ ...
+ }
+
+
+* Dealing with file format evolution
+
+ void serial (IStream& s)
+ {
+  // At the begining of the serial process, read/ write the version number
+of the class implementation
+
+  // In the following example - at read time 'version' contains the version
+read from the stream. At
+  // write time version code '3' is written to the stream and to the
+variable 'version'.
+  int version=s.serialVersion (3);
+
+  // Now switch the version
+  switch (version)
+  {
+  case 3:
+   // The last field added in the class
+   s.serial (LastField);
+
+   // do some different stuff at read time and write time
+   if (s.isReading())
+   {
+    // at read time
+    ...
+   }
+   else
+   {
+    // at write time
+    ...
+   }
+
+  case 2:
+   // note that the code provided as of here allows for the reading of old
+versions of the class
+
+   s.serial (Toto);
+
+   // in the case where the evolution from my version 1 implementation to my
+version 2
+   // is not simply an extension of version 1 we need to break execution
+here
+   break;
+
+  case 1:
+   s.serial (Foo);
+  case 0:
+   s.serial (Truc);
+  }
+
+ }
+
+
+* NeL File Headers
+
+The objective of NeL file headers is to verify that a file is in the right
+format before attempting to interpret the contents.
+
+ // The NeL team use the following advise serialise a file this way:
+ void CFileRootClass::serial (IStream& s)
+ {
+  // First write / read-check the header
+  s.serialCheck ((uint32)'_LEN');
+  s.serialCheck ((uint32)'HSEM');
+
+  // This code write / read-check the header 'NEL_MESH' at the beginning of
+the file.
+  // If the check fails, serialCheck throws the EInvalidDataStream
+exception.
+ }
+
+* Good examples to look at:
+
+ include/nel/misc/stream.h   // Stream base classes
+ class CTileBank in src/3d/tile_bank.cpp // Good example of file format
+evolution
+ class CAnimation in src/3d/animation.cpp // Good example of polymorphism
+
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..61445ed5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000412.html @@ -0,0 +1,162 @@ + + + + [Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins + + + + + + +

[Nel] 3dsmax 3.1 plug-ins

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 26 Apr 2001 19:56:44 +0200 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,
+
+The good news:
+
+We have released the source code of some of our plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1.
+
+The sources available are:
+
+* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL binary meshes, animations, skeleton =
+etc..
+* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a 3dsmax PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh.
+* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks in 3dsmax.
+
+You can find thoses plugins in the CVS tree in nel/tools/3d/plugins_max
+
+The bad news:
+
+1) One of our plugin, the landscape painter, is not in this package =
+because it is based=20
+on Discreet EditPatch source code, and we can't distribute this modified =
+source code.
+
+2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked to the 3DSMax SDK (which is not =
+Gnu GPL)=20
+and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone distributing plug-ins in binary =
+form will be in=20
+breach of the Gnu GPL.
+
+In English than means that you shouldn't distribute the plug-ins as =
+binaries.
+You are, of course, free to distribute the source code.
+
+Regards,
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The good news:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have released the source code of =
+some of our=20
+plug-ins for 3dsmax 3.1.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The sources available are:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* Scene exporter plug-in. Export NeL =
+binary meshes,=20
+animations, skeleton etc..</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* Patch converter plug-in. Convert a =
+3dsmax=20
+PatchMesh in a NeLPatchMesh.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* TileUtility plug-in. Use tile banks =
+in=20
+3dsmax.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can find thoses plugins in the CVS =
+tree in=20
+nel/tools/3d/plugins_max</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The bad news:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) One of our plugin, the landscape =
+painter, is not=20
+in this package because it is based </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on Discreet EditPatch source code, and =
+we can't=20
+distribute this modified source code.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) Given that Max plug-ins are linked =
+to the 3DSMax=20
+SDK (which is not Gnu GPL) </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and to NeL (which is Gnu GPL), anyone =
+distributing=20
+plug-ins in binary form will be in </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>breach of the Gnu GPL.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In English than means that you =
+shouldn't distribute=20
+the plug-ins as binaries.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are, of course, free to distribute =
+the source=20
+code.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT color=3Dblack face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+style=3D"COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cyril=20
+Corvazier<BR>Lead 3d programmer<BR>Nevrax =
+France<BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C0CE8B.05058E00--
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ff93dba5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/000413.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Nel] A small document for your consumption + + + + + + +

[Nel] A small document for your consumption

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:15:17 +0200 +

+
+ +
According to Brenden Towey:
+> From: Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com>
+> > 3) MD5 for a dynamic challenge. A good example: the server sends you the
+> > current date when you connect, and you use that date as the first
+> > bytes of the MD5 digest.
+> 
+> Would #3 solve the login & password hacking problem?
+
+More or less. However, most of the hacking problems I've seen these days
+on MMOGs do not involve a spoofed server or anything else. They're all
+revolving around:
+
+1) A scam aimed at getting your login and password
+	(we have this incredible powerleveling service. Send us $30 and
+	 your password and we'll have you level 50 in a month)
+
+2) A trojan (last one on EQ pretending to be an 'undetectable macro
+   program') that intercept the login/password pair when you *type them*.
+
+Still, it doesn't hurt to make a MD5 challenge. If someone can spoof
+you into believing you're talking to the server, the usual crypto layer
+that protects your connection against sniffing will not protect your
+password (something some web designers conveniently forget, saying that
+once you're using https:// urls, you can send you password in clear to
+the web).
+
+> >serves as authentification, and the WS then updates the LS with its state,
+> >name and IP address. The WS may have a list of valid IP/port address for WS
+> >to avoid the occasional pirate server registration.
+> 
+> 
+> Ok, I don't understand this.  Why would one person or company want to do
+> this?  What's the advantage to having a login service in one location and a
+> world service in another?  Why not just co-locate all your services behind
+> one firewall?
+
+Bandwidth/Lag/Security issues.
+
+Bandwidth is the first, and usually the less important one. But when you
+start talking multiple OC12 links for your bandwidth consumption, you
+quickly have limits on where you can locate your worlds. It is a lot easier
+to negociate several locations with OC4 for each than say "I need a place
+with two OC12".
+
+Lag is another one. All the world is not the states... tell it to the Aussies
+who ranted and screamed till they finally got one Ultima Online server
+down under. We're doing our best to make lag irrelevant, but given the
+choice of playing on a server with 500 ms ping and a server with 100 ms
+ping times... The experience with the latter will always be a *lot*
+smoother.
+
+And finally security. Not network security, I'm talking real security.
+Despite every premium paid, what happens if your server room catches
+fire, and despite generous smothering of Halon, all your servers are
+burnt to a nice crispy taste? Sure, the insurance will pay you lots of
+money. But your players will no longer be there.
+
+Spreading your servers around makes sense on several points.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..60e27165 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-April Archive by Author + + + +

2001-April Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001
+ Ending: Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Messages: 22

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Archived on: Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11e15aa2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-April Archive by Date + + + +

2001-April Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001
+ Ending: Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Messages: 22

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Archived on: Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..25407f43 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-April Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-April Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001
+ Ending: Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Messages: 22

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Archived on: Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a8578886 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-April Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-April Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001
+ Ending: Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Messages: 22

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Archived on: Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..25407f43 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-April/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-April Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-April Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Apr 5 18:19:11 2001
+ Ending: Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Messages: 22

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Apr 27 16:15:17 2001
+ Archived on: Fri Apr 27 17:28:02 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/000580.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/000580.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..46a83afb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/000580.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] Fw: NeL compile error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Fw: NeL compile error

+ Nicolas Vizerie + vizerie@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:03:39 +0200 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+----- Original Message -----=20
+From: Nicolas Vizerie=20
+To: zane@supernova.org=20
+Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:32 PM
+Subject: NeL compile error
+
+
+Hello,=20
+
+The compile error that you reported has been fixed. You can update your =
+file.
+Thanks for reporting it!
+
+
+Nicolas Vizerie
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
+<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
+href=3D"mailto:vizerie@nevrax.com" title=3Dvizerie@nevrax.com>Nicolas =
+Vizerie</A>=20
+</DIV>
+<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:zane@supernova.org"=20
+title=3Dzane@supernova.org>zane@supernova.org</A> </DIV>
+<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 24, 2001 5:32 PM</DIV>
+<DIV><B>Subject:</B> NeL compile error</DIV></DIV>
+<DIV><BR></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The compile error that you reported has =
+been fixed.=20
+You can update your file.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks&nbsp;for reporting =
+it!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nicolas Vizerie</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C12CC7.1A9522E0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9aaa5d50 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-August Archive by Author + + + +

2001-August Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Tue Aug 7 19:05:28 2001
+ Ending: Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Messages: 46

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8e2f7e1f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-August Archive by Date + + + +

2001-August Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Tue Aug 7 19:05:28 2001
+ Ending: Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Messages: 46

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7081d0e7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-August Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-August Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Tue Aug 7 19:05:28 2001
+ Ending: Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Messages: 46

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-August/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a932c322 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-August/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,169 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-August Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-August Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Tue Aug 7 19:05:28 2001
+ Ending: Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Messages: 46

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Aug 29 19:48:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Aug 29 20:54:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f76b8332 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw + + + + + + +

[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:21:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Vincent,
+
+I would like to thank you for your help and your advises regarding the mouse
+interface.
+
+Yes you're right, the best mouse implementation should use the mickey mode.
+A second implementation of the Events Emitter is planed in a near future.
+This will introduce new messages for all the input interfaces including
+mickey messages using Directinput and Dga.
+After this work, the client side code could be modified to virtualise the
+input regarding the user configuration.
+For the time, the one we use is only based on win32 and xlib basic messages
+so, it is not very smart. Sorry for this.
+
+Be sure we want a NeL Gnu/Linux implementation as good as possible. :-)
+Thanks again for your help.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..af936f1c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html @@ -0,0 +1,544 @@ + + + + [Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =) + + + + + + +

[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)

+ Stein Arve Berge + hubbster@online.no
+ Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:42:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Creating temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D "WIN32" /D =
+"NDEBUG" /D "NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /Fp"ReleaseDebug/misc.pch" /YX =
+/Fo"ReleaseDebug/" /Fd"ReleaseDebug/" /FD /c=20
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_re=
+gistry.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stre=
+am.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h=
+.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.yacc.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_li=
+stener.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_se=
+rver.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_even=
+t_emitter.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id=
+.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displaye=
+r.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp"=
+
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_pt=
+r.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_i=
+nfo.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_man=
+ager.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_thre=
+ad.cpp"
+]
+Creating command line "cl.exe =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp"=20
+Creating temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp" =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /out:"../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib"=20
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mem_stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\matrix.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rect.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector_h.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_id.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\displayer.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mutex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\task_manager.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_thread.obj
+]
+Creating command line "link.exe -lib =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp"
+
+Output Window
+
+Compiling...
+class_registry.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_reg=
+istry.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No such file or directory
+file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+such file or directory
+mem_stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_strea=
+m.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': No such file or directory
+stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/stream.h': No such file or directory
+matrix.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/matrix.h': No such file or directory
+plane.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': =
+No such file or directory
+quat.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rect.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+such file or directory
+vector.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector.h': No such file or directory
+vector_h.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No such file or directory
+vectord.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vectord.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_fi=
+le\config_file.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.yacc.cpp
+config_file.yacc(14) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file or directory
+event_listener.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_lis=
+tener.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No such file or directory
+event_server.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_ser=
+ver.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_server.h': No such file or directory
+events.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+win_event_emitter.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event=
+_emitter.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+bit_set.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No such file or directory
+class_id.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_id.h': No such file or directory
+debug.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': =
+No such file or directory
+displayer.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp(32) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+i18n.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(=
+31) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+such file or directory
+log.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(3=
+1) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/displayer.h': No such file or directory
+mutex.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+path.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rgba.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+such file or directory
+smart_ptr.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr=
+.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': No such file or directory
+system_info.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_in=
+fo.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+task_manager.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_mana=
+ger.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No such file or directory
+time_nl.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+win_thread.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_threa=
+d.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+
+
+
+Results
+
+snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+
+yes im a newbie =3D)
+
+Feel free to mail me back : hubbster@online.no
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>Creating temporary file=20
+"C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" with =
+contents<BR>[<BR>/nologo /MD=20
+/W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D "WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D=20
+"NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /Fp"ReleaseDebug/misc.pch" /YX /Fo"ReleaseDebug/"=20
+/Fd"ReleaseDebug/" /FD /c=20
+<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\clas=
+s_registry.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\ne=
+l\src\misc\file.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\sno=
+wballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\t=
+est\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.c=
+om\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanpara=
+dox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp"<BR>"E:\urba=
+nparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp"<BR>"=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\=
+vectord.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\s=
+rc\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\tes=
+t\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.yacc.cpp"<BR>"E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_listen=
+er.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\mi=
+sc\event_server.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\events.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox=
+.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp"<BR>"E:\urb=
+anparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp"<BR>"=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc=
+\i18n.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src=
+\misc\log.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel=
+\src\misc\mutex.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg=
+\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.=
+com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp"<BR>"E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp"=
+<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_=
+thread.cpp"<BR>]<BR>Creating=20
+command line "cl.exe @C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" =
+<BR>Creating=20
+temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp" with=20
+contents<BR>[<BR>/nologo /out:"../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib"=20
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\mem_stream.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\m=
+atrix.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\rect.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vector_=
+h.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj<BR>=
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj=
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj=
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\win_event_emitter.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj<BR>.\Releas=
+eDebug\class_id.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\display=
+er.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj<BR>.\ReleaseD=
+ebug\mutex.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj<BR>.=
+\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj<BR>.\Releas=
+eDebug\task_manager.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\w=
+in_thread.obj<BR>]<BR>Creating command line "link.exe -lib=20
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp"<BR></DIV></FONT>
+<H3>Output Window</H3>
+<DIV><BR>Compiling...<BR>class_registry.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmor=
+pg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_registry.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>file.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>mem_stream.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>stream.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/stream.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>matrix.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/matrix.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>plane.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>quat.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>rect.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>vector.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>vector_h.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>vectord.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\vectord.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vectord.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>config_file.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or directory<BR>config_file.yacc.cpp<BR>config_file.yacc(14) : =
+fatal error=20
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>event_listener.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\event_listener.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>event_server.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\event_server.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_server.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>events.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\events.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>win_event_emitter.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\s=
+nowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>bit_set.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>class_id.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/class_id.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>debug.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>displayer.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\displayer.cpp(32)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>i18n.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(31)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>log.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clien=
+t\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(31)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/displayer.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>mutex.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>path.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>rgba.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>smart_ptr.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>system_info.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>task_manager.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>time_nl.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>win_thread.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\win_thread.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV>
+<H3>Results</H3>
+<DIV><BR>snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>yes im a newbie =3D)</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Feel free to mail me back : <A=20
+href=3D"mailto:hubbster@online.no">hubbster@online.no</A></DIV></FONT></B=
+ODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70--
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7dbcce98 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscape Building problems + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscape Building problems

+ Benjamin Legros + legros@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:28:50 +0100 +

+
+ +
+From: "Róbert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+
+> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+> with /goto.
+
+
+According to the log file, it seems that the build process crashes at the
+tessellation pass :
+
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1186 : setup zone tessellation
+2306 10_AC
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1447 : Compute landscape
+tessellation
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1450 :    - load tile bank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 WRN 1928 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: Path
+not found for warpstorm.smallbank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 241 : Total Span : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 242 : Total SpanList : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 325 : total computation time: 0 days, 0
+hours, 0 minutes and 0 seconds
+
+The builder doesn't find a path to the file 'warpstorm.smallbank'
+It should be located somewhere with the tile files...
+
+
+Benjamin.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5a694ddc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscape Building problems + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscape Building problems

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:37:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Róbert, nice to see you again on the list :-)
+
+> When I run the client with our landscape the far textures
+> look all strange, the landscape appears and disappears when
+> I move around using /goto.
+
+Perhaps it is the thread loading process that make some times to load new
+zones when you use /goto.
+
+> I also never see the near textures.
+
+If you see arraws, it means the bitmap files are not found.
+Are you sure tiles are in a path directory of the client ?
+Can you check that your client use .dds tiles and not .tga tiles ? ( use
+CTileBank::makeAllExtensionDDS () )
+
+> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+> with /goto.
+
+I will ask my coworkers for this.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..95614756 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ + + + + [Nel] Feedback + + + + + + +

[Nel] Feedback

+ Arnaud Bienvenu + arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr
+ Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:00:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
Good morning,
+
+I just tried to compile and run nel/snowballs2 from today's CVS source under
+Linux Redhat 7.2. First I had to apply two tiny patches (see below), and
+then, trying to run snowballs :
+
+WRN 3133 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.soh: shared object not open
+WRN 3133 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+
+Thank you for your attention,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.58
+diff -u -r1.58 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	6 Dec 2001 17:03:03 -0000	1.58
++++ nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	10 Dec 2001 09:55:52 -0000
+@@ -180,11 +180,14 @@
+                        transformable_user.h \
+                        trav_scene.h \
+                        vegetable.h \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.h \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.h \
+                        vegetable_def.h \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.h \
+                        vegetable_manager.h \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.h \
+                        vegetable_shape.h \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.h \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.h \
+                        vertex_buffer.h \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.h \
+@@ -369,11 +372,14 @@
+                        transformable.cpp \
+                        transformable_user.cpp \
+                        vegetable.cpp \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.cpp \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.cpp \
+                        vegetable_def.cpp \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.cpp \
+                        vegetable_manager.cpp \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.cpp \
+                        vegetable_shape.cpp \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.cpp \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.cpp \
+
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 ps_mesh.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	6 Dec 2001 16:51:49 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	10 Dec 2001 10:02:31 -0000
+@@ -840,7 +840,7 @@
+ 
+ //====================================================================================
+ // Private func used to force modulation on a material and to store the preious state
+-static inline ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &destMat, CMaterial &srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
++static inline void ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &destMat, CMaterial &srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
+ {
+ 	for (uint k = 0; k < IDRV_MAT_MAXTEXTURES; ++k)
+ 	{		
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6c741dea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit + + + + + + +

[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit

+ Kai Schutte + skander@WPI.EDU
+ Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:13:32 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I'm trying to compile nel and snowballs, I've passed most hurdles, but
+this one is sticking...
+
+While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+
+ps_util.cpp
+D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+to specify a higher limit
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+
+Can I get a hint?
+
+thanks,
+
+-Kai
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e1c62a26 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit + + + + + + +

[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:13:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I had the same error yesterday. I have added the /Zm200 option in 3d.dsp and
+it seams to work. It should be on the CVS now.
+Big values passed to /Zm option lead to a visual crash.. /Zm100 is the
+default value (100% the default heap size)
+/Zm2000 is 2000% the default heap size ! :-)
+
+Thanks for the feedback,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+> While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+> C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+>
+> ps_util.cpp
+> D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+> fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+> to specify a higher limit
+> Error executing cl.exe.
+>
+> I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..864d8380 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs + + + + + + +

[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ 12 Dec 2001 14:17:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Wed, 2001-12-12 at 13:03, nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com wrote:
+> I would to know what is the position of Nel (the
+> graphic part) compare to SDL.
+
+Something like 3 abstraction levels above SDL :)
+SDL is a low-level programming framework, while NeL is rather a
+high-level toolkit for game development. I guess the Nevrax guys will
+just ask you to read the doc (at least its outline) if you want to grasp
+the idea ... http://www.nevrax.org/docs/
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..309a0fd5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html @@ -0,0 +1,153 @@ + + + + [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl) + + + + + + +

[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)

+ Kai Schutte + skander@skander.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:59:01 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,=20
+
+I got the 3d lib to compile. I was using the =
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under code\nel\nel.dsw.
+
+Okay, I got one more problem, and it seems to be associated with =
+<GL/glext.h> stuff...=20
+I downloaded and installed the <GL/glext.h> file from the SGI site.
+compiler output:
+
+driver_opengl.cpp
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'glActiveTextureARB'
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+
+at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+which refers to a <GL/glext.h> entry at line 1620:=20
+typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+I would suppose that this is some sort of precompile error... I've tried =
+changing little things in the vacinity, but everything I did just =
+generated more compile errors.=20
+
+Have you bumped into this problem?=20
+
+thanks,=20
+-Kai
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got the 3d lib to compile. I was =
+using the=20
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under =
+code\nel\nel.dsw.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Okay, I got one more problem, and it =
+seems to be=20
+associated with &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; stuff... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I downloaded and installed the =
+&lt;GL/glext.h&gt;=20
+file from the SGI site.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>compiler output:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+'glActiveTextureARB'<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+glActiveTextureARB;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; =
+entry at line=20
+1620: </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>typedef void (APIENTRY * =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)=20
+(GLenum texture);<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would suppose that this is some sort =
+of=20
+precompile error... I've tried changing little things in the vacinity, =
+but=20
+everything I did just generated more compile errors. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have you bumped into this problem? =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Kai</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bfc50235 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html @@ -0,0 +1,153 @@ + + + + [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl) + + + + + + +

[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:18:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Kai,
+
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'glActiveTextureARB'
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+  (repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+  =20
+  at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+I compile without any kind of problem with the current <GL/glext.h> file =
+available on the SGI site. (GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D 7)
+Please make sure you have included the good file. If it is not the =
+problem, don't hesitate to post again.
+
+  which refers to a <GL/glext.h> entry at line 1620:=20
+  typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+
+I have the same definition at the same line, and it is the only one.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Kai,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+  =
+size=3D2>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+  =
+'glActiveTextureARB'<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2>(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  <BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>extern =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+  glActiveTextureARB;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I compile without any kind of problem =
+with the=20
+current &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; file available on the SGI site. =
+(GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D=20
+7)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please make sure you have included the =
+good file.=20
+If it is not the problem, don't hesitate to post=20
+again.</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; =
+entry at=20
+  line 1620: </FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>typedef void (APIENTRY *=20
+  PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the same definition at the same =
+line, and it=20
+is the only one.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Cyril</DIV></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b3012849 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Paul Siegel + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:14:17 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hi everyone -
+
+I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..19fcdd26 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ froggy@froggycorp.com + froggy@froggycorp.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:33:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the 
+game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+
++
+
+PS : Little hello to the demoscene people who work in 
+nevrax ;) (Ace, Hulud, and all i forgot)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..815bdcc7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Tony Hoyt + ahoyt@packetport.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:41:20 -0500 +

+
+ +
Paul Siegel wrote:
+> 
+> Hi everyone -
+> 
+> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+  Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor. 
+I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+  Tony
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..625f315b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Tony Hoyt + ahoyt@packetport.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:44:01 -0500 +

+
+ +
froggy@froggycorp.com wrote:
+> The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+> game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+
+  I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+  Tony
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4406639a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@mediacom.it
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:08:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
> > The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+> > game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+>
+>   I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+> Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+> question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+> the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses NEL.
+But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make them
+public.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b2e64aea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:13:03 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Paul,
+
+> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+The NeL 3d library has several user level.
+
+Using the user interface (all u_headers.h in the 3d lib) of the library, you
+can only
+load and display a landscape. This level is used by the game developper to
+abstract
+the game engine from the technology implementation.
+
+Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+quilckly create patches and
+landscape zones. It is really simple to export some bezier quad patches from
+Blender
+(does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small plugin.
+Simple C++ classes
+are provided to "Builb" the ".zone" c++ objects. Then serialisation is used
+to save them
+in binary files.
+
+The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles, vertex
+color and
+displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At nevrax, this is done by
+the artists using
+a 3dsmax plugin (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+generate
+the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why not, a blender
+painter plugin...
+You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+landscape is not trivial at all.
+If you are short on time, a good solution is to generate painting, as most
+of the heightfield
+landscapes do.
+
+The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+stay the same
+as far as you generate ".zone" files.
+
+>
+> Paul
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0bd65565 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:23:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Valerio,
+
+> You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+NEL.
+> But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+them
+> public.
+
+No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+
+NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+
+In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+of your program under
+the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5ba368f8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
> I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  
+
+Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+
+Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers 
+team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+
+> Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+NeL, you have to release your source code.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f803a52e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@mediacom.it
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:42:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:30 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+> > I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> > Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.
+>
+> Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+>
+> Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers
+> team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+>
+> > Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> > there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+>
+> At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+> NeL, you have to release your source code.
+
+Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+client??
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ac9a126b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@mediacom.it
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:44:08 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+> > You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+> NEL.
+> > But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+> them
+> > public.
+>
+> No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+>
+> NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+>
+> In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+> of your program under
+> the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+
+
+I was discussing this with Ace a few moments ago. Yes, you're right, I was
+confusing between GPL and LGPL. :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6592dab1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:54:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+> client??
+
+Yes, as Ryzom client uses GPL source code, we will release its source 
+code too.
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4ae3b4db --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs UDP

+ nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com + nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:05:28 GMT +

+
+ +
In June/Jully, there is a great thread about TCP vs
+UDP. I would like to know where goes the debat.
+
+TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..52a26d85 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs UDP

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:23:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
> TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+
+Server to server communication use TCP with 5 NeL layer abstraction (on
+LAN).
+Server to client and client to server communcations use UDP wrapper in NeL
+(CUdpSock).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0cfb4eb8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Feedback + + + + + + +

[Nel] Feedback

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:10:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Arnaud,
+
+Arnaud Bienvenu wrote:
+> 
+> Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+> error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+> error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+
+Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+
+> PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+> you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+
+I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+took a look on ii.
+
+If the patches are small you can do it like that, otherwise that will be
+better to have them as attachments.
+
+
+Thanks a lot for your help.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d623050f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw + + + + + + +

[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:13:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Vincent,
+
+I applied your patch.
+
+Thanks a lot for the help,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..05312934 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ zen + zen@lapisonline.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Kai,
+
+To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+but it's not obligatory.
+
+Keep up the good work, guys.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+>
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+>
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+probably
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+the
+> GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+"secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+>
+> Just thinking out loud...
+>
+> -Kai
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dbd0ccd4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ J C Lawrence + claw@kanga.nu
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:54:03 -0800 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800 
+zen  <zen@lapisonline.com> wrote:
+
+> Hi Kai, To my understanding, you don't have to release the source
+> code if you don't sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may
+> release the code in development, but it's not obligatory.
+
+As soon as you distribute the product, which essentially means that
+you give, transfer, or otherwise provide it to someone else than
+yourself or your development team, you must grant that person full
+access to all the relevant sources.  No more, no less.  The GPL
+infects on distribution and only on distribution.
+
+-- 
+J C Lawrence                
+---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
+claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
+http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f8e77ecb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html @@ -0,0 +1,115 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Kai Schutte:
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+> 
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of 
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is probably 
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit the 
+> GPL. 
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore 
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret" 
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on your 
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this 
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+It is not. A violation that is.
+
+I know the GPL is an awful amount of legalese, and, like any legal-jargon
+document, people chiefly know its intent, and not its phrasing.
+
+But the GPL does not force you to release anything.
+
+What the GPL forces you is that, *if* you release any GPL program/library,
+its sources MUST be available (and describes the minimum requirement for
+this availability, i.e. you can't claim the sources are available but you
+need to come to the Tuvalu Islands, wait 3 months of quarantine, and read
+them on a dot-matrix printer listing with surgical gloves on).
+
+Note the "if".
+
+As long as *you* don't have a Ryzom client, *you* are not entitled to ask
+for the sources. A company may very well decide to take a GPL piece of
+software, and use it to write a program it uses internally, and no one
+can come up front and ask for that program's sources. If the company
+uses it internally only, the only legal obligation of source disclosure
+is to the people who have the program, i.e. its own employees.
+
+Of course, the example shown above works as long as the program remains
+inside. Other parts of the GPL allow any employee to pick the internal
+programs, use it to write its own GPL variation, and distribute said
+variation outside of the company, distributing the base source in the
+same way, and there's nothing the company could do to prevent exposure.
+
+But, in Nevrax's case, it's not important, since the program will end
+up available to the public, and when it does, the sources will be.
+
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby making 
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from 
+> public eyes? 
+
+As long as no one outside of Nevrax has Ryzom, the strictures of the GPL
+are respected.
+
+Yeah, I know, we're impatient :)
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..95ebfa99 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:23:21 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to zen:
+> Hi Kai,
+> 
+> To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+> sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+> but it's not obligatory.
+
+It's not "sell", it's "distribute". Even if you distribute it for free
+on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+source must be available.
+
+A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+
+Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+with the rest of the people out there.
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..348debb1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:30:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+> Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+No it isn't. If oneday, we *distribute* Ryzom program and if Ryzom uses a
+GPL library, in this case, we have to give the source of Ryzom. But today,
+we don't distribute Ryzom, so we don't have to give the source. Look the GPL
+licence, it's based on distribution.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+>
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+>
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+probably
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+the
+> GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+"secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+>
+> Just thinking out loud...
+>
+> -Kai
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cdede8e0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ zen + zen@lapisonline.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:28:50 +0800 +

+
+ +
Thank you guys, for enlightening me 8-).  I neglected the keyword
+'distrubte'.
+
+Zen Jean
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:23 PM
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+> According to zen:
+> > Hi Kai,
+> >
+> > To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you
+don't
+> > sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in
+development,
+> > but it's not obligatory.
+>
+> It's not "sell", it's "distribute". Even if you distribute it for free
+> on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+> source must be available.
+>
+> A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+> because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+> Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+> have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+>
+> Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+> with the rest of the people out there.
+>
+> --
+> Vincent Archer Email: archer@frmug.org
+>
+> All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are
+Socrates.
+> (Woody Allen)
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e0a6edd2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics + + + + + + +

[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+
+Yes you can use GCC to compile proprietary softwares (else most of
+the playstation, GBA etc..  games are GPL :-) ), only software including 
+GPL code become GPL itself, not the product of GPLed software.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..adb0a0a7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics + + + + + + +

[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:41:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Tony Hoyt:
+> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+
+Even though you *used* GCC to build the program, gcc *itself* is in no
+way present in the program you distribute. There's no portion of gcc
+source code or binary in your application. Thus, your program does not
+inherit the licensing from the gcc GPL license.
+
+The only think that gets bundled is the C library. And the C library
+(glibc) is covered by the LGPL, which specifically allows for that case
+(i.e. distributing a program that is linked with a GPL software, without
+ placing the GPL strictures on the program itself).
+
+The same thing would apply to a C grammar parser that was generated
+by bison (the GPL parser generation tool). Using bison to generate your
+C source does not require you to put said source under the GPL: bison
+is not included in your program, only its output (hmmm, is the library
+required for bison LGPL? I think so, but can't remember)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf341918 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Paul Siegel + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:43:24 -0500 +

+
+ +
> Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+> quilckly create patches and landscape zones. It is really simple to
+> export some bezier quad patches from Blender
+> (does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small
+> plugin. Simple C++ classes are provided to "Builb" the ".zone" c++
+> objects. Then serialisation is used to save them
+> in binary files.
+
+Ok, this will be my first project.  Besides Blender, I'm also looking at
+OpenFX (www.openfx.org).  Unfortunately, I'm a coder not a graphic artist.
+I can't say I'm too learned on how to create bezier patches using either
+program, so I'm going to have to do a bit of research before I even start
+this.  If there are any artists out there with some input (especially
+something like "Blender doesn't support bezier patches") I'd love to hear
+from you.  Hopefully it shouldn't take too long to make either a file
+translator or some kind of export plugin for one of the apps, once I learn
+how to make the content using one of the aforementioned apps.
+
+> The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles,
+vertex
+> color and displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At
+> nevrax, this is done by the artists using a 3dsmax plugin
+> (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+> generate the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why
+> not, a blender painter plugin...
+
+Right, this will be phase 2.  I was sort of expecting this to be the hard
+part.
+
+> You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+> landscape is not trivial at all.  If you are short on time, a good
+> solution is to generate painting, as most of the heightfield
+> landscapes do.
+
+Can you elaborate on this?  Are you talking about coming up with some kind
+of algorithm to color the geometries instead of using textures?  I don't
+follow.
+
+> The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+> stay the same as far as you generate ".zone" files.
+
+Right, I'm assuming that once the .zone files are generated, I can follow
+the process used with 3DS Max.
+
+Thanks for the feedback Cyril.  It's nice to see how much input the official
+team has on this list.
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a630ad3d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Paul Siegel + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:52:43 -0500 +

+
+ +
Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of "if
+you distribute".  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+
+Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+
+Paul
+
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+> probably currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom
+> must inherit  the GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+> "secret" until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put
+food
+> on your plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet,
+isn't
+> this secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..51ebfc91 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: GPL confusion + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: GPL confusion

+ Jon Watte + hplus@mindcontrol.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:49 -0800 +

+
+ +
> Therefore, the current development code is in the public 
+> domain, therefore should be published.
+
+I find two things confusing about this sentence.
+
+1) Something that is under GPL is explicitly NOT in the public 
+domain, as something under the GPL suffers substantially more 
+restrictive licensing than something that is in the public 
+domain. Basically, if it's in the PD, you can do what you want 
+to it, except POSSIBLY not mis-represent the origin. The GPL 
+imposes many more strictures on your use of the code.
+
+2) The GPL only requires that source code is made available 
+free of charge to anyone who purchases binaries, and that no 
+restrictions are made on the purchaser's rights to use that 
+source code (including subsequent redistribution). If Ryzom is 
+not for sale to anyone, then there is no requirement for the 
+developers thereof to make any source code available.
+
+Now, the GPL may have changed slightly since I last read it 
+through in full, but your statement does not seem to be based 
+on the actual language of the GPL.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eb7e9631 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:29:14 -0800 +

+
+ +
12/14/2001 5:52:43 AM, "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com> wrote:
+
+>Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of "if
+>you distribute".  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+>Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+>
+>Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+>the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+>use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+>
+thats what's known as the ASP hole (application service provider).  On the one hand it has been used to create money-making websites out of gpl pieces by companies who have never released their code changes.  On the 
+other hand, with a massively multiplayer game there is a lot of server side stuff- rules/ agent experience/ object locations that you may not want to release in the interests of gameplay.  However, most of that type of thing can 
+be abstracted from the core programs and written in a definition or scripting language specific to the game or in some general purpose language like python.  these interpreted programs, stored in some database, can now be 
+considered content and free from gpl obligations.  But that means that even if all the backend source is available, you have a lot of work to do before it does anything useful.
+with a few grey areas in rules (physics?) I think this is as it should be.
+
+michael
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f894930b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....) + + + + + + +

[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:11:43 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello ....
+
+I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+front ends there is some computers running different services.
+And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all shard
+?)
+
+Clients communicate with one front end of a shard.
+
+But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+or a specific service from NEL ?
+
+The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+NEL ?
+
+If there a description of all NEL services ?
+what is the welcome service ?
+
+sorry for all this questions ....
+bye
+
+--
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..09a14474 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Markus Ewald + Markus_Ewald@gmx.net
+ Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:02:07 +0100 +

+
+ +
Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+
+> Paul Siegel wrote:
+> >
+> > Hi everyone -
+> >
+> > I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> > That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> > available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> > rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+>
+>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+There's also a free landscape modeller at
+-> www.geofrac2000.com
+
+It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of 3dsmax.
+The author discontinued the project and made it available for free, but it's
+still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with the
+raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+
+>
+>
+>   Tony
+>
+
+-Markus-
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..13b80e82 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic) + + + + + + +

[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)

+ Alexander Denisov + denisov@darkwing.uoregon.edu
+ Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:29:15 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+
+I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+
+I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+(and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+
+By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a "green light"
+to hackers? Are there any ways
+somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+hacker
+knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+game in secret
+(though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+
+I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+important question.
+
+By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+it)
+
+Alex
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..786764b4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ + + + + [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic) + + + + + + +

[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)

+ alfred + alfred@mazuma.net.au
+ Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:20:56 +1100 +

+
+ +
I have nothing to do with the nevrax team but I know the answer to this. 
+To put it simply, there is not security in obscurity. The protection 
+isn't in the alogrithm, its in the "secret" that is shared. This axiom 
+has been proved time and again, just look at the troubles windows has 
+with its codebase... The lack of published source code ain't helping them.
+
+I am not sure what security model nel will adopt but there are many to 
+choose from and none suffer from the openness of the protocol. You could 
+sign the client binaries with a public/private key pair. This stops 
+trivial hacks. You would also run a secure game server which does bounds 
+checking on the input, this stops obvious hacking. You can also encrypt 
+the client->server data stream. Fundamentally you are in trouble because 
+the client is a generalised computing machine which the user has 
+complete control over, if they have the machine code they can crack it, 
+but you can make it damn hard. You can also make any hack shortlived by 
+having dynamic binaries. The open source nature of nel only makes it 
+more secure as any flaws or bugs in the implementation will be spotted 
+and solved, rather than being exploited (many eyes make bugs shallow).
+
+:)
+
+
+
+
+Alexander Denisov wrote:
+
+> Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+> 
+> I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+> still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+> 
+> I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+> (and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+> gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+> 
+> By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a "green light"
+> to hackers? Are there any ways
+> somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+> hacker
+> knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+> game in secret
+> (though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+> 
+> I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+> since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+> important question.
+> 
+> By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+> it)
+> 
+> Alex
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e460fc2f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Feedback + + + + + + +

[Nel] Feedback

+ Arnaud Bienvenu + arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr
+ Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:12:29 +0100 +

+
+ +
Thanks for answering Cedric,
+
+On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 07:10:15PM +0100, Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+
+I managed to workaround this problem linking the snowballs 2 client against
+libGL.so (by default, libnel_drv_opengl.so is linked against libGL, but not
+the snowballs 2 client). I do not know if this is a Linux requirement, or
+another bug in RedHat's 7.2 GL librairies. I hope a Linux Guru will give us a
+clue.
+
+By the way, the libICE.soh standing instead of libICE.so is obviously a
+display bug non related to nel, since I could reproduce it from clean trivial
+code.
+
+At last, running the snowballs client, I get this well known error :
+INF 5222 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN 5222 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glSetFenceNV
+WRN 5222 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+I read on this list the problem is due to Fence NV disappearing from
+Mesa-3.4 (which I use), and that the nevrax team is working on it. Is it
+still the case ?
+
+> I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+> took a look on ii.
+
+The patched versions are not yet available from today's CVS head revision, but
+I trust you it's in the pipeline.
+
+Regards,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..db00119c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic) + + + + + + +

[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:07:37 +0100 +

+
+ +
At Nevrax our thoughts run as follows:
+
+Game clients are very easy to reverse engineer or hack on a PC.
+Server/ Client data packets are even easier to hack.
+
+We assume that whether the source code for the client is open or closed, it
+will inevitably be modified.
+
+The only way to avoid cheating is to take all game sensitive decisions
+server-side and to treat client as a kind of dumb terminal. This has
+implications throughout the game design.
+
+For instance, to avoid a hack from making invisible players visible, it is
+up to the servers not to transmit update information for invisible players
+to the clients. This means that invisible players can not make 3d-positional
+noises as this would give an exploitable piece of information.
+
+The front end servers clearly have to be robust too which means that all
+incoming data from the clients is treated with caution - packets containing
+invalid data are simply ignored.
+
+
+In a nutshell - we assume that servers are trustworthy and that clients are
+not.
+
+
+Daniel.
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:13 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question
+(probablyoff topic)
+
+
+There's a bit more than the 'security through obscurity' debate in this
+question. It is actually more a question of trust, or if you prefer,
+_what_ or _who_ needs to be secured ? The game ? The player moves ? The
+server knowledge ?
+
+Eric S. Raymond (with a nice link to Carmack's tought about this) did a
+nice essay, back to the time where 'cheating drivers' (making walls
+transparent) were about to be unveiled for FPS games :
+
+http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f8842b1b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....) + + + + + + +

[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi nico,
+
+> I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+> If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+> front ends there is some computers running different services.
+> And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all
+shard
+> ?)
+
+Shard is composed of services. There are front end services and back end
+services.
+Client are connected with on front end service and front end services are
+connected with back end services.
+There's only one login service for all shards. The client first connects to
+the login service that checks the validity of the account, after the client
+choose the shard. The login service warn the shard (via welcome service (one
+per shard)) that a new client will come. The welcome service chooses the
+best front end for the client and sends the choosen front end to the login
+service and the login service sends this info to the client. after, the
+client connects to the selected front end and authenticates.
+
+> But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement (try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+> It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+> or a specific service from NEL ?
+
+It s the welcome service that do that.
+
+> The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+> NEL ?
+
+Look the welcome service :-)
+
+> If there a description of all NEL services ?
+
+Look the net part of http://www.nevrax.org/docs/
+And also try here http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4a6b5f95 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ + + + + [Nel] peer to peer ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] peer to peer ? +

+ nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com + + nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com +
+ Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:15:59 GMT +

+
+ +
--__--__--
+
+Message: 3
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+load balancing, login service, ....)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+charset="iso-8859-1"
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+
+> But how clients are balanced between the N front
+ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+(try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+>>>> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+between client (such peer to peer network, or
+distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+could be possible to connect people which interract a
+lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+to the minimum.
+
+Does i smoke too much ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..147c42ce --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html @@ -0,0 +1,156 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax +

+ Paul Siegel + + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com +
+ Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:49:45 -0500 +

+
+ +
My apologies, I accidentally sent this first to nel-admin.  Guess the
+reply-to of the digest isn't set up to go to the correct place.  Here it is
+again, I hope nobody gets this twice:
+
+Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+Therefore, I've finally settled on the most basic thing I could find, namely
+sPatch.  (http://www.geocities.com/getspatch/index.html).  It is little more
+than a bezier patch editor, but currently that's all I need.  There appears
+to be a more feature rich package based on sPatch called hamaPatch
+(http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/6625/soft10.html), but currently all
+documentation on this is in Japanese and I don't speak the language.
+Perhaps my work can some day be moved to hamaPatch, but for the moment I'm
+sticking with sPatch.  Which means we should be able to generate the zone
+files with sPatch, but will need a seperate piece of software to paint the
+textures (since sPatch doesn't support any kind of texturing).  But I'll
+burn that bridge when I get to it.  ;)
+
+Fortunately, sPatch has good documentation on creating export plugins, and
+I'm well on my way to successfully making one.  I have a couple questions
+though for anyone on this list whi is familiar with the 3D code.
+
+1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to have
+a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use to
+populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these filled
+in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+fill in upon generating a single zone?
+
+2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest way
+to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to see
+if it indeed exported a valid file?
+
+Thanks again everyone for all the help.  This is a great project, and I'm
+having lots of fun playing with it.
+
+Paul
+
+> And more:
+> http://terraform.sourceforge.net/
+> http://ftp.arl.army.mil/brlcad/
+> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/
+>
+> Saturday, December 15, 2001, 1:02:07 PM, you wrote:
+>
+> ME> Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+>
+> >> Paul Siegel wrote:
+> >> >
+> >> > Hi everyone -
+> >> >
+> >> > I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio
+> Max.
+> >> > That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> >> > available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> >> > rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+> >>
+> >>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+> >> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+> >> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+> >> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+> >> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to
+be
+> >> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+> >> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+>
+> ME> There's also a free landscape modeller at
+> ->> www.geofrac2000.com
+>
+> ME> It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of
+> 3dsmax.
+> ME> The author discontinued the project and made it available for free,
+but
+> it's
+> ME> still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+> ME> landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with
+> the
+> ME> raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+>
+> >>
+> >>
+> >>   Tony
+> >>
+>
+> ME> -Markus-
+>
+>
+> ME> _______________________________________________
+> ME> Nel mailing list
+> ME> Nel@nevrax.org
+> ME> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c20e76fb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html @@ -0,0 +1,180 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax +

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + + corvazier@nevrax.com +
+ Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:20:34 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Paul,
+
+> Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+> building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+> aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+
+You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+
+> 1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to
+have
+> a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use
+to
+> populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+> However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+> object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these
+filled
+> in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+> fill in upon generating a single zone?
+
+The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder will
+fill them
+of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to fill the
+CBindInfo.
+
+The patches can be linked those way : (warning ASCII arts in non-constant
+size
+fonts.. :-)  )
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+     3
+   ***
+0 *  * 2
+   ***
+     1
+
+---
+
+There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+---
+
+One patch on another :
+
+**********
+*      *        *
+*  0  *   1   *
+*      *        *
+*      *        *
+**********
+CBindInfo:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1 },
+Edge = { 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 0 },
+Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   2   *
+**********
+Bind info:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2 }, Edge = { 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*      ******
+*      *   2   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   3   *
+*      ******
+*      *   4   *
+**********
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2, Patch 3, Patch 4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 3,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 2,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Note that zone_welder welds automaticaly the zones together but don't
+generate bind info for internal patch linking in a zone.
+It searches for shared vertices in the 2 zones and weld them. Zone_welder
+can perform only 1-1 bind type.
+
+I hope this is understandable, don't hesitate to ask for details.
+
+> 2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest
+way
+> to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+> is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to
+see
+> if it indeed exported a valid file?
+
+You can replace a zone in snowball, or make a simple application to see
+the zone. If you want, i can post a peace of code for a small app.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ad05065b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html @@ -0,0 +1,132 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs +

+ Paul Siegel + + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com +
+ Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:05:16 -0500 +

+
+ +
Cyril to the rescue again!  (Or do you prefer Hulud?  And if so, will you
+tell me what it means?)  You know, I've gotten slower responses from
+"support" that I pay for.  My thanks again.
+
+> You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+> a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+> vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+
+Hmm, I'm not sure I parse this, but it intrigues me.  Unfortunately, my
+knowledge of height fields is even less than that of bezier patches, the
+latter of which I've only learned as I researched writing this plugin.  What
+do you mean by "the joined vertices"?  Are these the four outer corner
+vertices of a bezier patch?  And what happens to the interiors?
+
+> The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+> runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder
+> will fill them of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to
+fill the
+> CBindInfo.
+
+Thanks, the info was very helpful.  I've coppied it over into a monospaced
+text file, and it all makes sense.  I'm guessing now that the program I've
+been working with is much more simplistic than what you've had to deal with
+(though I guess it doesn't take much to be more simplistic than max!)
+
+The plugin includes the following code with which I can deal:
+
+typedef struct {
+ float x, y, z;
+} SP_Vector;
+
+typedef struct {
+ long v1, v2, v3;
+} SP_Triangle;
+
+typedef struct {
+ SP_Vector ctrlPoints[4][4];
+
+ long  numPoints, numTriangles;
+ SP_Vector *points, *normals;
+ SP_Triangle *triangles;
+} SP_Patch;
+
+void SPExportPatch(SP_Patch *patch)
+{
+ /* This function is called for each patch in a layer. */
+ /* Every patch is described as both a set of control points (for a cubic
+Bezier */
+ /* patch) and as a set of triangles - use whichever you need. */
+ }
+
+Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add some complex
+ruitines to mathematically figure out which patches are adjacent to each
+other and therefore how to bind them, or move along to another piece of
+software with hopefully better export data.  I'd really hate to do the
+former as I've actually got the thing exporting zone files (they just have
+no bind info, and would probably look like hell if I tried to use them).
+The latter though seems rather intimidating, especially with my limited
+knowledge of three dimensional geometry.
+
+Well, before I make that decision I want to be sure I understand all the
+data I need to create these patches.  I've got the vertices, tangents,
+interiors, and now the BindInfo structs.  There is also an array of
+BaseVertices in the CPatchInfo object that I don't think I understand.
+Besides that the rest of the data appears to concern coloration and tiles,
+which I'm not going to worry about yet (recall that's phase 2).  Is it valid
+though to set OrderS and OrderT to 0, and therefore only supply a single
+color for the entire patch?  Will the patch render, or will I see nothing
+until I complete phase 2 (painting the patches)?
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9547d5c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html @@ -0,0 +1,141 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax +

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + + corvazier@nevrax.com +
+ Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:21:17 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Paul,
+
+Forget all the ASCII parts of the 2 previous mail, here is the good way to
+fill the CPatchInfo::CBindInfo structure :
+
+---
+
+We will assume all patches in this example are oriented like this
+
+0      3
+  ***
+  *  *
+  ***
+1      2
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+      3
+    ***
+ 0 *  * 2
+    ***
+      1
+
+ ---
+
+ There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+ ---
+
+ One patch on another :
+
+ **********
+ *      *        *
+ *  0  *   1   *
+ *      *        *
+ **********
+ CBindInfo:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 1 }, Edge = { 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   2   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Bind info:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2 }, Edge = { 0,
+0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ 4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   4   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   3   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   2   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2, Patch 3, Patch
+4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+Sorry but i have been confused by the two classes called CPatch::CBindInfo
+and CPatchInfo::CBindInfo. :-)
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..879947d3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] Max Bezier Patches + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Max Bezier Patches +

+ Nel List + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:45:26 -0800 +

+
+ +
+> Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+> interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add 
+> some complex
+
+If these are Bezier patches, then the outer control points (the four
+corners) will be shared with the neighbours; two corners per 
+neighbour. This seems to me to be equivalent to finding adjacent 
+triangles using shared edges, which certainly isn't complicated math 
+(although the simplest implementation takes O(n^2) time).
+
+
+
+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b9145803 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html @@ -0,0 +1,128 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg +

+ nicO + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:36:33 -0500 +

+
+ +
I imagine that the data resend by the server are almost the same than
+those send by the client. It isn't possible to mix this to technics ? We
+can imagine peer to peer access for close characters to interract with a
+minimuim latency. And for the farer charaters, we can use the server and
+movement prediction (which could not be so bad because if there far, the
+characters will be small on screen).
+
+The idea behind that is to relax the pressure on the needed latency of
+the server. Does it not possible to add some more intelligence inside
+the client to predict what is usefull or not to minimize exchange ? 
+
+nicO
+
+> Subject: RE: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+> 
+> There are various reasons why we haven't opted for a peer to peer model.
+> 
+> One of the most basic problems is this:
+> We are trying to achieve a high level of audio-visual immersion with scenes
+> in which tens or hundreds of individuals move about fluidly. The majority of
+> players only have 56k modems and bandwidth is a big issue. The problem with
+> peer to peer is that each player has to send and receive tens or hundreds of
+> packets per scene update at a rate of several scene updates per second. The
+> internet headers alone for these packets are liable to completely drown the
+> modem.
+> 
+> Internally we use kunning systems to decide which information on which
+> players is relavent to send to which other players taking bandwidth
+> constraints into account. This allows us to make optimum use of the
+> bandwidth available.
+> 
+> This code is tightly tied in with the game systems so I'm affraid it won't
+> be released for a while yet.
+> 
+> Daniel
+> 
+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+> nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:16 PM
+> To: nel@nevrax.org
+> Subject: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+> 
+> -- __--__--
+> 
+> Message: 3
+> From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+> load balancing, login service, ....)
+> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+> charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+> 
+> > But how clients are balanced between the N front
+> ends of a shard ?
+> 
+> For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+> (try to have the same
+> player number on each front end).
+> 
+> >>>> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+> More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+> between client (such peer to peer network, or
+> distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+> reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+> each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+> could be possible to connect people which interract a
+> lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+> mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+> So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+> to the minimum.
+> 
+> Does i smoke too much ?
+> 
+> nicO
+>
+
+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9eecb250 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] precompiled header file + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] precompiled header file +

+ Vianney Lecroart + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:59:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Zen,
+
+>I don't know whether gcc support precompiled header or not, but VisualC++
+do support it.
+
+We know precomp headers and we don't include it because on big project we
+already had some strange bug during compilation because of precomp headers
+so we decided to not use them because we already have lot of strange visual
+bug to don't add more.
+But we'll do a try soon and add them in the CVS if it works fine.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5152a36f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Author + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..829f609f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Date + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e92320eb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,420 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Thread + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fc45eecc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Subject + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e92320eb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,420 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Thread + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..06fa4e6f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] New release + + + + + + +

[Nel] New release

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:02:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
We've advanced NeL to the 0.3 version, and the sample Snowballs game to the
+0.2 version, so we've put a new release on the web site.
+
+Major highlights of NeL:
+- the AI framework compiles correctly under Linux
+- support for shadows, lens flare, and other lighting effects
+- compressed textures
+
+Major highlights of Snowballs (besides the NeL parts)
+- new radar system
+- zoom
+- correct execution under Linux (if your Xserver supports 3D acceleration,
+  otherwise, don't even think about it)
+
+As usual, you may update your CVS repositories and compile, or install the
+packaged source tree and compile from there. Do not forget to install the
+updated data files.
+
+As an aside, we're putting the dreaded 'ns.cfg' file in the data distribution
+but the library defaults are now set to the right server. Even without it,
+you'll no longer get the "cannot resolve pctest" error.
+
+Enjoy the new version.
+
+We'd appreciate feedback on how well it works under Linux. We've tested it
+with NVidia's accelerated modules, and some configurations give us problems
+(like 2 FPS rates), so we'd like to figure out what's wrong with these.
+Many thanks in advance.
+
+The distributions are linked on the news article on the home page of the
+	http://www.nevrax.org/
+web site.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1081da49 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compilation pb + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compilation pb

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Wed, 07 Feb 2001 20:28:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that "gl.h"
+includes "glext.h". And "glx.h" include "gl.h". And so on ... The conclusion
+is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+
+#ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+#endif
+
+and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+<GL/glx.h>).
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4d3a5c44 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] news about nevrax on /. + + + + + + +

[Nel] news about nevrax on /.

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:55:27 +0100 +

+
+ +
hello
+you certainly know it but there is a news a
+nevrax on slashdot : http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml
+sorry for this mail which don't deal with code
+but i think their some interresting comments about this news.
+i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+cheating and economic problems.
+
+and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+good luck guys !
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..97a050a2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] news about nevrax on /. + + + + + + +

[Nel] news about nevrax on /.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:06:58 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+
+Incidentally, the site handles the www & this list. Seem that sendmail
+is more resilient than apache.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cbc0b579 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] news about nevrax on /. + + + + + + +

[Nel] news about nevrax on /.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:05:45 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> hello
+> you certainly know it but there is a news a
+> nevrax on slashdot : http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml
+
+I know. This evening (afternoon for the states), rsync failed with lotsa
+timeouts.
+
+Of course, I've seen since that I configured our sync badly, and we sync
+documentation and cvs repositories thru the Internet instead of using only
+out private links.
+
+> i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+> cheating and economic problems.
+
+I'll be heading there first thing today. Given my selection, the Nevrax
+story is on the very first page of my home page (set to Slashdot) when
+I logged on this morning.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..94a9b7ab --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compilation pb + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compilation pb

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:39:43 +0100 +

+
+ +
Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+modifications,
+but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:28 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compilation pb
+
+
+> I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+> lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that "gl.h"
+> includes "glext.h". And "glx.h" include "gl.h". And so on ... The
+conclusion
+> is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+> inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+>
+> #ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+> #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+> #endif
+>
+> and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+> <GL/glx.h>).
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d2c34a9a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:30:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
I compiled NeL from CVS the night before, and fetched snowballs data this
+morning (yes, after the slashdotting, I had something like a half-minitel
+feeling). The client took 20sec to display something (no CPU consumption
+though), then I connected to itsalive with a dummy login. Everything is
+fine, except my fps starting at 5 (the landscape just loaded) quickly
+sinking at 0.8 (I moved the mouse a little).
+
+My box is a Celeron-375, GeForce256, Linux 2.4.0 (Debian/woody). I'm running
+XFree 4.0.2 with Nvidia 0.9.6 drivers. Quake3 runs over 60fps with full
+options at 1024x768 (and really never hangs, yeees :)).
+
+More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the modeline
+is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different bitdepth
+under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..434efec8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some "heavy" perturbations... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some "heavy" perturbations...

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:48:46 +0100 +

+
+ +
You might have noticed the sluggish feel of the site, and the lack of
+prompt response by the mailing list (well maybe not).
+
+For those who didn't pay attention to the warnings earlier, we got
+referenced on Slashdot, which means about 1,000 people trying to click
+simultaneously on the link leading... well here.
+
+We don't have the infrastructure in place to handle this. Usually, no one
+has (it's kinda hard to justify putting enormous ressources to sustain a
+spike in traffic that will be mostly gone next week, once everyone had a
+look here).
+
+We've got however a bunch of new people coming here, so I'd like to say
+hello to all of you. I do hope you've browsed quickly thru the mail
+archives on the www.nevrax.org web site, and found it interesting. The
+list has gone mainly silent, with the odd compile problem cropping here
+and there, but that doesn't need to remain so.
+
+So, what do you think about NeL so far?
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..744d3b6f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html @@ -0,0 +1,225 @@ + + + + [Nel] Computer Arts Lab + + + + + + +

[Nel] Computer Arts Lab

+ Carl Vilbrandt + root@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:32:44 +0900 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+ boundary="------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67"
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+To all
+
+I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+entity.   Each
+AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+AutoCAD
+data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data with
+the real
+time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+time  simulation
+for visualization.
+
+I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+
+I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+temples in  the
+Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+studied with a master
+temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the last
+temple builder
+in this region.
+
+I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+in this area via the internet.
+
+I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+open source
+3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+anyone have any
+suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+
+http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+
+--
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp
+
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
+To all
+
I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake entity.  
+Each
+
AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link
+between AutoCAD
+
data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+with the real
+
time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system
+that uses a real time  simulation
+
for visualization.
+
I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+
I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models
+of temples in  the
+
Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes. 
+I studied with a master
+
temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+last temple builder
+
in this region.
+
I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+
in this area via the internet.
+
I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join
+and open source
+
3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin. 
+Does anyone have any
+
suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+
http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+
-- 
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp

+ 
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67--
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii;
+ name="vilb.html"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: inline;
+ filename="vilb.html"
+Content-Base: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+Content-Location: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+
+
+
+
+   
+   
+   Computer Arts Lab
+
+
+ 
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
CARL
+VILBRANDTUniversity
+of Aizu       
+Department of Software - Computer Arts Lab
+
Tsuruga, Ikki-machi,
+Aizu-Wakamatsu, Fukushima, JAPAN 965-8580
Curriculum
+Vitaeemail: vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp    
+
+Office 327-B
tel no: +81-242-37-2792    
+FAX +81-242-37-2772
Classes: 
+Computer Graphics
+
            
+Literacy 2
+
            
+Operating Systems		Research: 
+GNUbook.org
+
              
+
+HyperFun.org
+
              
+
+Aizu History Project

+
+

+
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6597e3a6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ + + + + [Nel] Computer Arts Lab + + + + + + +

[Nel] Computer Arts Lab

+ Dave Turner + novalis@novalis.org
+ Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:31:46 -0500 +

+
+ +
> Carl Vilbrandt wrote:
+> 
+> To all
+> 
+> I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+> entity.   Each
+> AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+> AutoCAD
+> data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+> with the real
+> time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+> time  simulation
+> for visualization.
+> 
+> I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+> 
+> I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+> temples in  the
+> Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+> studied with a master
+> temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+> last temple builder
+> in this region.
+> 
+> I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+> historical sites
+> in this area via the internet.
+> 
+> I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+> open source
+> 3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+> anyone have any
+> suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+> 
+> http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+> 
+> --
+> Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+
+The big way to contribute to open source is to release under the GPL or
+a BSD-style license your autocad->quake converter.  I think there is a
+Quake3->Crystalspace map converter, which is something that you might
+want to consider when choosing an engine.  
+
+This sounds like a great project - have fun!
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+"It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures" - Pug
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..516b282a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:45:38 +0100 +

+
+ +
> More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+> fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the
+modeline
+> is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different
+bitdepth
+> under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+
+actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4a06c4c0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:34:23 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+> available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+> everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+
+You can't change XFree bitdepth until you restart it ... For good GL init
+code, I suggest you take a look at SDL init code.
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..92afc180 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ + + + + [Nel] snowballs is slow + + + + + + +

[Nel] snowballs is slow

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:01:55 +0100 +

+
+ +
Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <david.belius@chello.se>
+To: <snowballs@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:27 PM
+Subject: Re: [Snowballs] Runnign snowballs - Finally snowballs runs!
+
+
+> The font problem was because of how i compiled freetype.
+> Now snowball runs!
+> It looks very nice(especially the terrain) but it isn't very fast!
+> I get below 10 fps on my 800 mhz Athlon with 128 mb ram and a GeForce256
+> 32 MB DDR card(using detonator drivers) running win98se.
+> Is this somethign wrong with my configuration or are there optimizations
+> that haven't yet been made or something?
+>
+> /David
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Snowballs mailing list
+> Snowballs@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..011c1ca0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Olivier Tarnus + olivier.tarnus@interact.lu
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:33:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Hi ,
+
+And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+active OSS softwares comming from France....
+
+I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+find the configure script that should be included...
+
+Do i have to get it via CVS?
+
+Olivier Tarnus
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
+Content-Type: text/x-vcard;
+	name="Olivier Tarnus.vcf"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="Olivier Tarnus.vcf"
+
+BEGIN:VCARD
+VERSION:2.1
+N:Tarnus;Olivier
+FN:Olivier Tarnus
+TITLE:Web developer
+TEL;WORK;VOICE:+352 48 49 69
+EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:olivier.tarnus@interact.lu
+REV:20010209T133339Z
+END:VCARD
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..99f35b0c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:08:14 +0100 +

+
+ +
Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+> 
+> Hi ,
+> 
+> And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+> active OSS softwares comming from France....
+> 
+> I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+> find the configure script that should be included...
+
+It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4d65fb84 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:47:13 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vincent Caron wrote:
+> Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+> > 
+> > I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+> > find the configure script that should be included...
+> 
+> It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+> the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+
+The version available on our web site are CVS ckeckout and not a distribution
+version. That's mean that the configure script will no be include but
+should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+
+The bootstrap script migth fail becuase some files are missing, so in that
+case reexecute the script., it will copy the missing files ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d53e92fa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:38:12 +0100 +

+
+ +
Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+> Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+
+Ooops you should read Makefile.am and not Makefile.in ... :-)
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b49c0175 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Hello Slashdot ! + + + + + + +

[Nel] Hello Slashdot !

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:54:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ccc6ffc7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Hello Slashdot ! + + + + + + +

[Nel] Hello Slashdot !

+ Matthew Flagg + Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:06:20 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hey that would be me!  Hey guys.  Any of you on the Java3D list too maybe?
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Olivier Lejade [mailto:lejade@nevrax.com]
+Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 2:54 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] Hello Slashdot !
+
+
+I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b5419440 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:03:30 +0100 +

+
+ +
put the include directory of stlport before
+in include from microsoft
+
+Slistak Shady wrote:
+
+> Hi-
+> 
+> This is my first time at tryng to compile everything. Current problem I 
+> have is the following error when compiling NeL.
+> 
+> C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+> #error :  "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+> file.cpp
+> 
+> 
+> I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and 
+> compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and 
+> lib file as per the INSTALL doc.
+> 
+> Any suggestions?
+> 
+> Thanks.
+> Brett
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5d060ea1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ =?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?= + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:57:40 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Slistak,
+
+Friday, February 09, 2001, 1:47:18 PM, you wrote:
+SS> C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+SS> #error :  "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+SS> file.cpp
+
+SS> I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and
+SS> compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and lib 
+SS> file as per the INSTALL doc.
+
+SS> Any suggestions?
+
+In VC, try going into the Tools->Options menu and move
+the reference to the stlport include files up using
+the up arrow.  This is for the compiler to find
+stlport before the standard MS libraries.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..abbaa389 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ Slistak Shady + slistak@hotmail.com
+ Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:18:24 -0000 +

+
+ +
Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+
+Brett
+
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0e951974 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ + + + + [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting + + + + + + +

[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting

+ Mark Ewert + ewert@reflexnet.net
+ Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+It took me awhile to finally compile 0.2 of nevrax.org for windows, but =
+after numerous patches (some of them blatant kludges) I was able to =
+compile both the client and server.
+
+I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on how =
+to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all the =
+code ?
+
+A side note, I found the documentation overall to be quite sparse. I'm =
+sure this is something that will change as the project matures, but for =
+new users/developers especially better documentation would be much =
+appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test ;)
+
+Mark.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It took me awhile to finally compile =
+0.2 of=20
+nevrax.org for windows, but after numerous patches (some of them blatant =
+
+kludges) I was able to compile both the client and server.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought an interesting first step to =
+working with=20
+nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current environment. I =
+have=20
+briefly skimmed the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A side note, I found the documentation =
+overall to=20
+be quite sparse. I'm sure this is something that will change as the =
+project=20
+matures, but for new users/developers especially better documentation =
+would be=20
+much appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test=20
+;)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11c504e4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg

+ Tels + nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com
+ Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:46:51 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+IMO it would be a good idea if the list disallowed attachments and/or html.
+HTML (even with javascript/background pictures) is nearly as bad as these
+unreadable vcard attachements and others ;o)
+
+- From my prevois ML experiences a simple rule/guideline to NOT do such
+things is not enough - admins, do you read me? ;)
+
+Oh and hi all. Still struggling with the slashdot effect I at least got the
+code and will start playing with it today.
+
+> Today's Topics:
+>   1. Documentation on Event/Character Scripting (Mark Ewert)
+> --__--__--
+> Message: 1
+> From: "Mark Ewert" <ewert@reflexnet.net>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500
+> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80"
+> Subject: [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+> Content-Type: text/plain;
+>       charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+> Content-Type: text/html;
+>       charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+[snip]
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOoaIPncLPEOTuEwVAQHMZAf/QKnbk6DdXAVxioed8n1DsUtHOB+HqErS
+hZapigpP+10OZZVucyo0X9yLlmmMerHvPgCmAmTQG6ob2GXJWrPdH8Y6zO6IrRi7
+vYPAPBayFNqRrixnCfv/0AsWxj9IMG0qjOE+rOhKV4eqSudnbHDzG2gr4JFVnQ8y
+mMtyF8Mk5EYGlN6IgjnCSripmEcyrPqDFAoKGuQuntxF7XZ2O4+E7svp1Y0EJUfu
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+=cpbF
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a8b88356 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting + + + + + + +

[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:13:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+Hello Mark and thank you,
+
+>I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the >AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on =
+how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all =
+the code ?
+
+Yes we know and we are very sorry. At present we work on the =
+client/server modele for data distribution modele because events in AI =
+script work on local model. When we finish this work we'll write a doc. =
+It do'nt take long time do do this job.=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Mark and thank you,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;I thought an interesting first step =
+to working=20
+with nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current =
+environment. I have=20
+briefly skimmed the &gt;AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?</FONT></DIV></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes we know and we are very sorry. =
+</FONT><FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2>At present we work on the client/server modele for =
+data=20
+distribution modele because events in AI script work on local model. =
+When we=20
+finish this work we'll write a doc.&nbsp;It do'nt take long time do do =
+this=20
+job.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1e170ee5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html @@ -0,0 +1,54 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:21:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Slistak Shady:
+> Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+
+Another one for the FAQ "How to compile this beast" :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..949ede78 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compilation pb + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compilation pb

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:28:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:39:43AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+> It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+> modifications,
+> but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+
+Just a quick word to say that the problem just appeared here. The proposed
+correction seems to work.
+
+Larger report when compilation ends.. :-)
+
+	
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..44b2fc74 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT

+ Mark W. Oosterveld + moz@oosterveld.org
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:15:38 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+  I am one of the slashdot horde that descended on your project
+recently. I have done a cvs checkout of the latest soruce, and am triing
+to compile it under Visual C++ 6.0, sp 4, on both a Windows 98 box (at
+home) and an NT box (at work... don't tell anyone). Anyway, after
+installing STLport, FreeType, Python, and glext.h, I am able to compile
+all the libraries. But, when I try to build the client, I get the
+following error:
+
+
+LINK: warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBC" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe
+
+
+  Unfortunatly, my C++ is a little rusty, and my Windows Programing is
+almost non existant, but there is a main (and a WinMain) in client.cpp.
+I suspect I have a setting wrong in VC, but wouldn't even begin to know
+where to find it.
+
+Mark
+
+P.S. I am most interested in looking at (and possibly working on) the
+server side, but need to get a client up and running before I can really
+start looking at it in depth.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a75979d4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:53:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+
+Thanks.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..adcd1666 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT

+ Mark W. Oosterveld + moz@oosterveld.org
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:28:13 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
Vianney,
+
+  Thank you. That worked perfectly. Now I just have to wait till I get
+home before I can run it. I was pretty sure it was a simple problem, but
+one that would have taken me days to track down. Thanks again.
+
+Mark
+
+On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+> Hello,
+> 
+> It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+> 1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+> the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+> 'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+> 2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+> configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+> search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+> remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+> 3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+> 
+> Thanks.
+> 
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4edaddef --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS

+ Zane + zane@users.sourceforge.net
+ Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:57:56 -0800 +

+
+ +
First off I'd like to say hello, I'm new to the list, one of the slashdot
+crowd that have descended upon you. :)  I'm a C/C++/VB^H^H^H/SQL developer
+and I've done mud development as a hobby for years
+(www.sourceforge.net/projects/embermud) so this project was immediately
+interesting to me.  I'm entirely a client/server developer with just a
+rudimentary understanding of 3D so I'll probably be contributing entirely in
+the server or client/server communcation areas.  Few questions for you all
+at Nevrax.
+
+Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+the website obsolete.
+
+Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+:).
+
+I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+
+What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+documentation available but as far I as I can tell there aren't many (or
+any) design documents available.  This would be especially nice for parts of
+the library that have yet to be developed.  Starting work on undeveloped
+portions of the library (the DB portion for instance) might be of interest
+to other developers.
+
+Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+your work to the community?
+
+Forgive me if I'm asking questions with answers that are readily available
+on your web-site but I've done my best to research beforehand.
+
+Thanks,
+E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0917b88f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:48:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+
+According to Zane:
+> Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+> keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+> NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+> the website obsolete.
+
+Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+
+> Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+> site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+> would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+> offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+> will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+> :).
+
+We could use Slashdot, yes. In fact, there's a NeL project registered
+on it "in case". Why aren't we using Sourceforge? Well, apart from the
+current rumors of source forge growing beyond its possibilities of support,
+we'd lose some of the control we have on the current public system. It's
+a relatively gray area, and one on which we aren't saying much, except,
+"well, right now we aren't".
+
+> I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+> using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+> any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+> write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+> curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+
+License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+(we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+the license from 3DS.
+
+> What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+
+No comment :)
+
+We know we should :)
+
+> Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+> to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+> your work to the community?
+
+Both. Altough we haven't specifically announced things, we have a specific
+program and are opening CVS commit privileges to specific people, so we
+are looking for contributions, at all levels (from simple bug fixes to
+whole features).
+
+We don't guarantee we'll use everything, but if it "fits" within the
+NeL scope, we'll put it in, even if we don't use it ourselves (yet).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2933d50f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] samples for NeL!!! + + + + + + +

[Nel] samples for NeL!!!

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:00:00 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello all!
+
+In the nel directory we'll add a sample directory, you'll see it after the
+syncro of this night.
+It's very simple examples of some NeL features. There's more comments than
+code
+so it could be a very good way to learn how to use NeL.
+I commit them without tested them on linux because I think that it's really
+easy to correct them
+(if necessary) and anyway, people who want to take a look on NeL this week
+end could look them
+(even if they don't compile, there's lot of comment).
+There's no makefile but they'll come next week i think.
+Please, fell free to send bugfix in comment and/or code parts by email
+directly to my
+email (lecroart@nevrax.com) to avoid flooding this mailing list ;)
+
+Enjoy!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4594952b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html @@ -0,0 +1,164 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:13:35 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+I get the following errors:
+
+Compiling...
+driver_opengl.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_material.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+#include <GL/glext.h> // Please download it from =
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"
+
+I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which are =
+required).
+
+What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I get the following errors:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT=20
+size=3D2>Compiling...<BR>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_extension.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_material.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_matrix.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_texture.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's =
+a comment=20
+there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing =
+be in=20
+the readme file?)...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;&nbsp;// Please download =
+it from <A=20
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/">http://oss.sgi.com/p=
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/</A>"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&nbsp; I=20
+grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go =
+looking=20
+for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put=20
+them.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... =
+(both of=20
+which are required).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What am I missing?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b1dd3c6c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linking Services + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linking Services

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:17:42 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again.&nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+"stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+error&nbsp;when linking.&nbsp; I tried searching for references to this =
+.lib in=20
+all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never =
+found=20
+anything.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again, what am I missing?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..777f9aa2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html @@ -0,0 +1,215 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:26:03 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives and found the file I =
+needed.  I guess this means the documentation just needs to be updated =
+so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get it.
+
+Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:13 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+  -- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+  I get the following errors:
+
+  Compiling...
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_material.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  Error executing cl.exe.
+
+  Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+  #include <GL/glext.h> // Please download it from =
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"
+
+  I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+  I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which =
+are required).
+
+  What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives =
+and found=20
+the file I needed.&nbsp; I guess this means the documentation just needs =
+to be=20
+updated so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get=20
+it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's the URL for those of you looking for =
+it:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h"><FONT=20
+size=3D3>http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</FONT></A><BR=
+></DIV></FONT>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djmark4@home.com href=3D"mailto:jmark4@home.com">Jared =
+Mark</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:13=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] gl.h</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I get the following errors:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT=20
+  =
+size=3D2>Compiling...<BR>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_extension.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_material.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_matrix.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_texture.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out =
+there's a=20
+  comment there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort =
+of=20
+  thing be in the readme file?)...</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;&nbsp;// Please =
+download it from=20
+  <A=20
+  =
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/">http://oss.sgi.com/p=
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/</A>"</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&nbsp; I=20
+  grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can =
+go=20
+  looking for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to =
+put=20
+  them.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or =
+gl.h... (both=20
+  of which are required).</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>What am I =
+missing?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..34215064 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html @@ -0,0 +1,174 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linking Services + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linking Services

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:44:19 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the way... forgot to =
+change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL okay... and =
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).
+
+I was getting the error from the glext.h when building the =
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but then it goes to link and gives me this:
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "stlport_vc6.lib"
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Which I'm assuming is why the services link is getting the error I =
+described below...
+
+So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with stlport.  Please =
+forgive me for being such a novice programmer. :)
+
+Can anyone help?
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:17 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] Linking Services
+
+
+  Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+  Linking...
+  LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file =
+"stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"
+  Error executing link.exe.
+
+  Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+  Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the =
+way...=20
+forgot to change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL =
+okay... and=20
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services=20
+error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was getting the error from the glext.h when =
+building the=20
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but=20
+then it goes to link and gives me this:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+"stlport_vc6.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Which I'm assuming is why the services link is =
+getting the=20
+error I described below...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with =
+
+stlport.&nbsp; Please forgive me for being such a novice programmer.=20
+:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Can anyone help?</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djmark4@home.com href=3D"mailto:jmark4@home.com">Jared =
+Mark</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:17=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Linking =
+Services</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again.&nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+  "stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+  error&nbsp;when linking.&nbsp; I tried searching for references to =
+this .lib=20
+  in all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and =
+never=20
+  found anything.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again, what am I=20
+missing?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..80e7236c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link Error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link Error

+ Slistak Shady + slistak@hotmail.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:42:10 -0000 +

+
+ +
I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is current 
+up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help? 
+Thanks.
+
+
+Linking...
+MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib" 
+conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol 
+_psaux_module_class
+Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e013ee77 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html @@ -0,0 +1,222 @@ + + + + [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 05:24:55 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, and freetype...=20
+
+I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused about freetype.  I =
+do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, but it's not =
+named "freetype.lib"... it's named "freetype200b8MT.lib".  at one point =
+it created "freetype200b8.lib" also.
+
+I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the services .exe files to =
+compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)  I have all of the =
+client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle perhaps?).
+
+Client Files Project was not compiling because it said it needed =
+"freetype.lib".  Fine... I tried renaming the freetype200b8.lib file to =
+freetype.lib.  Didn't work.  So I tried the other one (the multithreaded =
+one), and it didn't work either.
+
+Here's what it's telling me...
+
+--------------------Configuration: client - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Linking...
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must not be doing =
+something right with freetype during the making of it.
+
+So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I had had some =
+problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured since =
+I had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project =
+files for freetype... here's what they're telling me.
+
+Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) build 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'
+Compiling...
+common.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or directory
+ftdump.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, so y'all get the =
+idea.
+
+It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to figure =
+it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know I'm =
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something obvious or not.  If it's not something obvious, could someone =
+help me? :)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, =
+and=20
+freetype... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused =
+about=20
+freetype.&nbsp; I do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, =
+but=20
+it's not named "freetype.lib"... it's named "freetype200b8MT.lib".&nbsp; =
+at one=20
+point it created "freetype200b8.lib" also.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the =
+services .exe=20
+files to compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)&nbsp; I =
+have all=20
+of the client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle=20
+perhaps?).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Client Files Project was not compiling because it =
+said it=20
+needed "freetype.lib".&nbsp; Fine... I tried renaming the =
+freetype200b8.lib file=20
+to freetype.lib.&nbsp; Didn't work.&nbsp; So I tried the other one (the=20
+multithreaded one), and it didn't work either.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's what it's telling me...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: client - Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Linking...<BR>LINK : warning =
+LNK4098:=20
+defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library<BR>freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class<BR>MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error =
+LNK2001:=20
+unresolved external symbol _main<BR>ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals<BR>Error executing =
+link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 =
+warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must =
+not be=20
+doing something right with freetype during the making of =
+it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I =
+had had=20
+some problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured =
+since I=20
+had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project files =
+for=20
+freetype... here's what they're telling me.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) =
+build=20
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'<BR>Compiling..=
+.<BR>common.c<BR>fatal=20
+error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>ftdump.c<BR>fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: =
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, =
+so y'all=20
+get the idea.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll =
+be able=20
+to figure it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know =
+I'm=20
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something=20
+obvious or not.&nbsp; If it's not something obvious, could someone help =
+me?=20
+:)</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4481f452 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html @@ -0,0 +1,127 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling under Linux

+ Tels + nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:27:30 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+several nitpicks after my 2-hour adventures with ./configure under
+linux/gcc (SuSE 7.0):
+
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+
+http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/ seems to be the new
+url.
+
+StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+there is no "make install" for unix. Does this matter? I also run low on
+diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut down the size after
+making it?
+
+#checking for freetype-config... no
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+of freetype (which I was to delete).
+
+So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have "." in it's path.
+Now I try configure as user and get this:
+
+#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+#yes
+#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+
+Now my hour for this day is running out...
+
+The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+wrong and level one is named "./configure" ? ;-P
+
+Tels
+
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOo+4oncLPEOTuEwVAQEgbwf9GkgUnGjpRdaVlEc9cVgqIh+XfIHUk4+1
+PZUk8ArLuZpRR4RS6Qd7+V6dtwS4QCPGCNswDwB63Ce02DmAOFEE/wCpY/zWPDF+
+Tr2+T+CH3aFYQRrWx1/yG0NQDR4bSCIF0U3ZmzOu+nZPmfix2BWx95YvibAnuwsA
+qoMjVvYJf1LJ5pvPgJ2iIKJ0m/f3TvbMwN2QEoNLqhN/bxcHaIGjtYeEzD3LAc5R
+2KjqfvTZagFJGb22ByOCkDY7SXUGBS2Ql1BnmeS5mlqnnqiMrSxLbjtHAQZm3/7Z
+W8Bb0AnPJgB68+EGh0oAW29GpOMz/xM22+gkuV7VejmDffKfFA2DaA==
+=zPt+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a823aaf5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux

+ Tels + nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:07:20 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+On 18-Feb-01 Tels tried to scribble about:
+[snip]
+>#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+>#yes
+>#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+>#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+
+I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOo/lIHcLPEOTuEwVAQGspQf9Hc5MtFur7l8qgwtMjJ6StaBFSfECyrna
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+/5/NSeaNu4c4mmlnWgcvmiyJZisJqm87QnljMzOnWoySHJyCU9vl6w==
+=Bbg8
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f95afc63 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link Error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link Error

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:48:57 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a lot like the thing I'm getting... especially the "use
+/nodefaultlib" thing.  I saw that and didn't know what it was referring to,
+or where I would have to "use" it.
+
+I wish someone could help us. :(
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Slistak Shady" <slistak@hotmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 2:42 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Link Error
+
+
+> I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is
+current
+> up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help?
+> Thanks.
+>
+>
+> Linking...
+> MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib"
+> conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _psaux_module_class
+> Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+> Error executing link.exe.
+> _________________________________________________________________
+> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..021fba84 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...

+ Julien Hognon + jhognon@chello.fr
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:34:48 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+(look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+buildings Nel under win32)
+
+> Jared Mark a écrit :
+[...]
+> Here's what it's telling me...
+> 
+> --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+> ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> Linking...
+> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of
+> other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _psaux_module_class
+> MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _main
+> ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+> externals
+> Error executing link.exe.
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke    
+
+home 		: jhognon@chello.fr
+university	: jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr
+work		: julien@virtools.com
+
+ICQ number : 36110826
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3a006218 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:04:08 -0600 +

+
+ +
Okay, that worked... thanks
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Julien Hognon" <jhognon@chello.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 3:34 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...
+
+
+> Hi,
+> Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+> (look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+> buildings Nel under win32)
+>
+> > Jared Mark a écrit :
+> [...]
+> > Here's what it's telling me...
+> >
+> > --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+> > ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> > Linking...
+> > LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of
+> > other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> > _psaux_module_class
+> > MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> > _main
+> > ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+> > externals
+> > Error executing link.exe.
+> >
+>
+>
+> --
+> HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke
+>
+> home : jhognon@chello.fr
+> university : jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr
+> work : julien@virtools.com
+>
+> ICQ number : 36110826
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e4388f18 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:15:49 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Tels:
+> >#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+> >#yes
+> >#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+> >#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+> 
+> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+Wow. And linux kept on working?
+
+On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..80d82f06 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling under Linux

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:49:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+As root :
+
+# mknod /dev/null c 1 3
+# chmod 666 /dev/null
+
+... and it's back to life again !
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f5a48e0b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Glaze + viktor@glaze.se
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:37:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+
+Viktor Godaly
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..59ff716b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:30:26 -0600 +

+
+ +
I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Glaze" <viktor@glaze.se>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:37 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+> Hello,
+>
+> I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it.
+I
+> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+>
+> Viktor Godaly
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8aa9dbe3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Vincent Archer:
+> Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+
+More detail today, as promised :)
+
+> According to Zane:
+> > Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+> > keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+> > NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+> > the website obsolete.
+> 
+> Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+
+We're still using the published data here, so it should not have been
+a problem. Are you sure you are using the latest data file? There are
+two on the web now, an old (NeL 0.2/Snowballs 0.1) and a new (NeL 0.3
+& Snowballs 0.2) packed format (which is a lot smaller).
+
+If you're using the one that came with the very first release, update. If
+not, then there's something very odd going on. Open a bug then, and we'll
+have a deep look at it.
+
+However, the point you raise is good, because one day we might encounter
+that specific problem. I'm checking exactly how we're going to put it,
+whether in the code/client tree, a specific code/data tree, or a
+fully separate module (since it isn't code per se).
+
+> License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+> a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+> (we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+> license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+> the license from 3DS.
+
+I want to stress "we haven't... yet". We're trying to find a good solution
+to that problem (which basically boils down to using proprietary software
+right now, which limits our freedom of action, as usual).
+
+> > What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+
+We're working on redoing the way we document things. Doxygen is good,
+but if no one writes documentation for it, it's as instructive as trying
+to learn tu use Unix from just the manual pages.
+
+But that's the usual problem with programming: programmers are interested
+in writing code, not writing prose. We strive to keep them from sliding
+too much in code-only mode :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c57d4267 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:51:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> 
+> Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the "Requirements" section.
+I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on it,
+but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile NeL,
+there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2b9cec97 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:04:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to EagleEye:
+> I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+> cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+> that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+
+That's not dynamic load balancing if you have to assign servers to a
+specific area. That's merely 'reconfigurable static' :)
+
+Ultima Online did this for their servers. They measured during beta
+a lot of statistics, and created a map of areas for allocation to all
+processors (server being ambiguous here, because their servers were
+multiprocessor boxes). That map could be redone at will, depending on
+the number of processors allocated to a shard. But once the shard was
+started, that was it. The only way to add a processor would be to
+split one area in two, and the whole migration process was hard
+enough that it wasn't worth (their words) the development cost vs the
+number of times it would be used.
+
+True dynamic load would mean that each processor would adjust its
+border (i.e. which objets it manages) according to its load, compared to
+its neighbours. If it has too high a load, then its border would shrink
+along its most lightly loaded neighbour, swapping objects between one
+and the other.
+
+Of course, that means a variable, almost fractal geometry of processors,
+and a processor that, at boot time, was serving city A and its adjacent
+areas could well, four days later, be serving chiefly the mountain range
+5km from there, because of simple "pressure". It looks nice from a
+strict research standpoint, but it's HELL for system management.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9fd303b8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Glaze:
+> Hello,
+> 
+> I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+
+Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+haven't answered this question.
+
+Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+
+If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+
+We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+each area is strictly separate).
+
+We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+   which process control
+
+What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+And so on.
+
+I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3f1a29c8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Dave Null + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Dave Null

+ Tels + tels@bloodgate.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:23:23 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+> According to Tels:
+>> >#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+>> >#yes
+>> >#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+>> >#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+>> 
+>> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+> 
+> Wow. And linux kept on working?
+
+Until the next reboot, yes. Linux is more stable than I thought ;o)
+
+> On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+> straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+> as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+
+I booted from rescue disk (thanx suse!), then copied over /dev/zero.
+Unfortunately /dev/null got (why I dunno) 600, so user processes could not
+use it, so I changed it and now it seems to work all again. Whew. Now I
+need more time to figure out Nel.
+
+Cheers,
+
+Tels
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
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+=Dlhm
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..37287313 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling under Linux

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:52:51 +0100 +

+
+ +
Tels wrote:
+> 
+> Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+> 
+> http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/ seems to be the new
+> url.
+
+Try the american mirror web site at http://freetype.sourceforge.net/, you
+will have access to the all the project home page.
+
+I updated the INSTALL and configure.in file to change tha FreeType
+homepage.
+
+
+> StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+> please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+> there is no "make install" for unix. Does this matter?
+
+NeL is using the SGI iostreams, so i'm afraid that you will have to compile
+it.
+
+
+> I also run low on diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut
+> down the size after making it?
+
+you could do a 'make -f gcc.mak clean' to delete all the ojects files,
+it doesn't delete the library files ...
+
+
+> #checking for freetype-config... no
+> #configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+> #    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+> 
+> Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+> of freetype (which I was to delete).
+
+That's weird, it works fine for me :o)
+
+The installation line is in the builds/unix/install.mk file (line 51),
+Are you sure that the installation directory (ex: /usr/local/bin) is
+in your path ?
+
+> So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have "." in it's path.
+> Now I try configure as user and get this:
+
+The script is looking for freetype-config script in your path, it will change
+nothing to put in the NeL directoty, if it isn't in your path ;-)
+
+
+> The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+> for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+> wrong and level one is named "./configure" ? ;-P
+
+Thanks for your suggestion :-)
+
+We actually working on improving the documentation and build process, so it
+"migth" be easier in a near future ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000216.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000216.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..600cfbfc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000216.html @@ -0,0 +1,117 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Nahuel Greco + ngreco@softhome.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:01 -0300 +

+
+ +
On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> According to Glaze:
+> > Hello,
+> > 
+> > I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+> > was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> > the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> > balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+> 
+> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+> haven't answered this question.
+> 
+> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+> 
+> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+> 
+
+You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+
+
+> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+> each area is strictly separate).
+> 
+> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+>    which process control
+> 
+> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+> And so on.
+> 
+
+What are the "functional" parts that you will be planning? 
+
+
+How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+
+
+There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+
+
+> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+> 
+>
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000217.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000217.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..abdd65c1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000217.html @@ -0,0 +1,138 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:43:59 -0600 +

+
+ +
Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+
+By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+or on an even more molecular level (assuming you have a very large world
+with huge database demands) a database service that is strictly dedicated to
+handling certain types of objects (like dynamic world objects such as rocks
+and such, as opposed to character objects like their posessions in their
+backpacks for example).
+
+You would have other servers running the service managers for the AI of the
+monsters, etc, etc, etc...
+
+So instead of dividing up the world into geographical sectors and having a
+single system handle each sector... you would divide the world up into
+different processes, and have each system handle the specific process for
+the entire world.
+
+Let me know if I'm getting pretty close to what you're trying to say here.
+;)  My only question on the whole thing would be... what happens if you run
+into a problem where activity on a process gets to be too much for a
+server... would you be forced to upgrade that server?  Or could you
+theoretically split the process between two systems?  (running the same
+serice twice in the same cluster, on different systems).
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 10:33 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+> According to Glaze:
+> > Hello,
+> >
+> > I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask
+it. I
+> > was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to
+balance
+> > the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> > balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+>
+> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+> haven't answered this question.
+>
+> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+>
+> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+>
+> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+> each area is strictly separate).
+>
+> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+>    which process control
+>
+> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+> And so on.
+>
+> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+>
+> --
+> Vincent Archer                                         Email:
+archer@nevrax.com
+>
+> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road
+we go!
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000218.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000218.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e37cc7a7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000218.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:39 -0600 +

+
+ +
Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+under the heading of  "On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+libraries and softwares :"... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+let my mind skip over it. :)
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Valignat Cedric" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:51 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+> EagleEye wrote:
+> >
+> > Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+> > http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+>
+> There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the "Requirements"
+section.
+> I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on
+it,
+> but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile
+NeL,
+> there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000219.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000219.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..67b4f8c2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000219.html @@ -0,0 +1,144 @@ + + + + [Nel] Building a FAQ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Building a FAQ?

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:56:00 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+What better way to build a FAQ than to have questions that are actually =
+"frequently asked", right?
+
+Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm not exactly an =
+above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my =
+limited experience and expertise.
+
+1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled, =
+what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE to =
+edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle all =
+game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the core =
+components?
+
+2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, =
+etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you =
+can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software =
+restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank =
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I =
+have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in =
+terms of latteral area?)
+
+That's it for now...=20
+
+Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)
+--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with this stuff still. :)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What better way to build a FAQ than to have =
+questions that are=20
+actually "frequently asked", right?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm =
+not exactly=20
+an above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions=20
+that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my limited =
+experience and=20
+expertise.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services =
+packages all=20
+compiled, what do I do with it to actually start building MY =
+world?&nbsp; Do I=20
+HAVE to edit the code and recompile?&nbsp; Or is this package meant to =
+handle=20
+all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the =
+core=20
+components?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) What are the limitations on world size, max =
+number of=20
+connections, etc, etc?&nbsp; I understand there are obvious hardware=20
+restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking =
+about=20
+software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a =
+bank=20
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?&nbsp; Will =
+I have=20
+issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of =
+latteral=20
+area?)<BR></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That's it for now... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with =
+this stuff=20
+still. :)</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4ff8c590 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling on Linux.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling on Linux....

+ James Hearn + james.hearn@byu.edu
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:42:40 -0600 +

+
+ +
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm having trouble getting Nel
+to compile on linux. Or rather, getting the client and server to compile
+on linux. Nel itself compiles. When compiling the client or server
+libraries, I get this error:
+
+/home/james/downloads/STLport-4.0/lib/libstlport_gcc.so: undefined
+reference to `_STL::_Stl_prime<bool>::_M_list'
+
+I have installed the stlport libs and even compiled them (!). 
+I also installed Freetype 2.0 and Mesa 4.0.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+
+James Hearn
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..999aadf2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html @@ -0,0 +1,161 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:41:44 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+
+I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core =
+engine...
+I then try to get people to play the game...
+People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+but no profit can be made on that...)
+I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of =
+money...
+
+But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can =
+request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's =
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+
+So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my =
+game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my =
+entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" =
+that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service =
+themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+
+If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the =
+whole "open source" thing...=20
+
+My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want =
+to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort =
+of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a =
+"bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT =
+stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+*scratches head*=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I just want to make sure I understand this=20
+right...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I use this source code to build the base of my=20
+game...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I do all sorts of work to make my own game built =
+around this=20
+core engine...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I then try to get people to play the =
+game...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>People get the game (for free, or at least, for the =
+cost of=20
+shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I charge for the monthly service to the game, and =
+make boat=20
+loads of money...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But then, because of the way this license reads, =
+someone else=20
+can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game =
+that's=20
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So if all of the above is correct... what is the =
+point of me=20
+making my game using NeL in the first place?&nbsp; When someone can just =
+steal=20
+my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive =
+works" that=20
+are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... =
+
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If I'm completely off here, I appologise.&nbsp; I'm =
+extremely=20
+new to the whole "open source" thing... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay =
+concepts=20
+that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, =
+or any=20
+sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I =
+consider a=20
+"bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this=20
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if =
+I choose=20
+to use NeL as my core code?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>*scratches head*&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c6b8fd2f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Bryce Harrington + bryce@neptune.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:12:38 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+their license.
+
+NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+
+NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+reliability, and customer service.
+
+(This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+
+Bryce
+
+On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+
+> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> 
+> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+> I then try to get people to play the game...
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+> 
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+> 
+> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> 
+> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole "open source" thing... 
+> 
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> 
+> *scratches head* 
+> 
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket Scientist
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE iMSDW
+bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @ yahoo.com
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d18393c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ James Hearn + james.hearn@byu.edu
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:32:33 -0600 +

+
+ +
Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> 
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+> 
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+> 
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+> 
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+> 
+> Bryce
+> 
+> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+> 
+> > I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> >
+> > I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> > I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+> > I then try to get people to play the game...
+> > People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+> > I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+> >
+> > But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+> >
+> > So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> >
+> > If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole "open source" thing...
+> >
+> > My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> >
+> > *scratches head*
+> >
+
+I've been speaking with Jared, and it seems he is not opposed to open
+source. However, he wonders (as do I) where Nel ends and our code
+begins. Does any project using nel have to release *all* of its source
+code? Or just modifications to Nel itself? Modifications to Nel should
+*of course* be open source. It is basically things like game logic that
+Jared is concerned about.
+
+--James Hearn
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000224.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000224.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cd11a76f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000224.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:35:48 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+In return for giving a good base set of libraries, Nevrax hope to get 
+lots of free contributions to their project. This isn't as evil as it sounds
+since everyone is still free to work on whatever parts they like, and
+hopefully they will remain fairly lenient on what features make it in to the
+repository. (Ie, don't just include what _they_ want. I don't imply
+they should be lenient on content. Be code nazis, keep ugly code out :P)
+Of course, if they behave in a manner you feel is not conducive to
+the spirit of open-source development, you're free to split off your own 
+version of the tree.
+
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+
+This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+
+What they do get of course, is that little mod you did to the game engine
+for pretty-as-hell lens effects. Or your modified particle engine
+to accurately model a fireball. Anyone who looks at the current crop of games
+will tell you that it's not this sort of thing that makes or breaks a game.
+
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+Yeah, ditto the not associated with Nevrax thing... 
+unless they feel like hiring of course ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000225.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000225.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..07d13860 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000225.html @@ -0,0 +1,156 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:26:46 -0600 +

+
+ +
Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering "exactly
+where does their code stop, and my code begin?"
+
+Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+my world.
+
+I can understand sharing a new add-on, such as the ability to use DirectX 8
+with NeL... I can understand adding functionality to the core engine... that
+I wouldn't mind giving up to the general masses.  Heck, I don't care if I
+give up the artwork!  What's important to me is keeping my gameplay designs
+proprietary.  I don't want someone copying my game's LOGIC... because to me,
+that's what will make my game innovative, and will be the main reason people
+will play it.  If I give that up freely, I might as well go for a different
+core package.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:12 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+
+
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+>
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+>
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+>
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+>
+> Bryce
+>
+> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+>
+> > I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> >
+> > I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> > I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+engine...
+> > I then try to get people to play the game...
+> > People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+but no profit can be made on that...)
+> > I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+money...
+> >
+> > But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can
+request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+> >
+> > So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire
+game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are
+packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves...
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> >
+> > If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the
+whole "open source" thing...
+> >
+> > My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want
+to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of
+innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger
+and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I
+choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> >
+> > *scratches head*
+> >
+>
+> --
+> Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket
+Scientist
+> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
+----
+> SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE
+iMSDW
+> bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @
+yahoo.com
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000226.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000226.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7cfbe342 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000226.html @@ -0,0 +1,166 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Sal + svferro@earthlink.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:50:42 -0500 +

+
+ +
> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+engine...
+> I then try to get people to play the game...
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+but no profit can be made on
+> that...)
+
+    The last point isn't necessarily true.  You could likely sell your game
+for as much as you want.  As Red Hat sells Linux.  The GPL only insures that
+the source code to the binaries in your distribution must be made available.
+It doesn't cover the media you make, the documentation you write. People
+don't have the right to redistribute your custom media, or your custom game
+manuals.  Downloading the binary still won't grant you ability to play the
+game... you need the media.  Which is where the advantage is in the GPL game
+market in comparison to something like an operating system, such as Linux.
+
+    In short, you can still make money off of a GPL game.  Though I would
+rather see companies release all their artwork under an opencontent license,
+they don't have to.
+
+> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+money...
+
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request
+the entire source code to
+> my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people
+to use it just like I am
+> doing...
+
+    If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+would have to be redistributed, but you could create pretty unique worlds
+and plots by simply editing some serverside database.  Which entails
+creating maps, placing NPCs, possibly even defining rules such as what
+skills players have.
+
+    I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+be copywritten material.
+
+    And if you were able to modify the Nel code to make a better game...
+then someone that uses your code could likely make a better game yet. And
+the code that they created, you could use yet again in your own server.
+Opensource has many advantages related to software quality. Imagine how many
+people would be working to fix bugs and improve the codebase that is
+powering your world, in comparison to a proprietary codebase.
+
+> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+game using
+> NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not
+just
+> the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with
+it as a
+> whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of
+the loop
+> entirely.
+
+    I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+(not artwork, media. documentation, rules, etc.).  And I think its fair that
+you would be required to release your source changes, since its the hard
+work of others that makes your game possible, and they just want to make
+sure that your code improvements to their product will be made available.
+
+    Again, your game could have plenty of copywritten material that would
+not be easily 'stolen', and in fact, would be the equivalent of stealing the
+ruleset and media from an proprietary game, such as Asheron's Call or
+Everquest.  Which is prosecutable.
+
+    Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+
+    I also could not sell CD's of Everquest, because in order for their
+client to be useful it needs all the copywritten material that comes on the
+Everquest CD.
+
+> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+"open source"
+> thing...
+
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to
+implement...
+> having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative
+programming...
+> I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than
+anything UO or
+> EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I
+have to give all of
+> THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+    Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+_everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+libraries used in conjunction with them.
+
+    I'm not a lawyer, by any means. But I have some experience in developing
+opensource gaming software. I think a lot of people share the same
+misconceptions, which is why I felt compelled to reply.  I'm of the opinion
+that opensource and games are a perfect match.  Its really a no-lose
+situation, if you're thinking of developing your own game.
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000227.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000227.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf38cdd8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000227.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Bryce Harrington + bryce@neptune.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:45:30 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> > If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> > closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> > out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> > quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> > their license.
+> This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+> would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+> even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+> game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+> it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+> the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+
+That's true; I meant only the IP additions to the NEL sourcecode, which
+appeared to be what the original poster was interested in.  As Sal said,
+the game content would be handled differently.
+
+I'm less sure of the rules regarding dynamic linking and scripting.  I
+think "linking is linking", so the former would fall under GPL rules,
+whereas the latter I would hazard to guess falls more into the "content"
+category and thus can be arbitrarily licensed.  But this seems like a
+very grey area, and seeking out ways to get around the author's intents
+and use their work on terms of dubious legality doesn't seem like a
+kosher thing to do.  
+
+In any case, you can always try negotiating with Nevrax for special
+licensing terms; I'm sure they're open to making more money.  ;-)
+ 
+Bryce
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000228.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000228.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a653f3ad --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000228.html @@ -0,0 +1,54 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:45:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+> under the heading of  "On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+> libraries and softwares :"... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+> let my mind skip over it. :)
+
+You right, it isn't very clear, i going to fix that ... :-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000229.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000229.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eafe2459 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000229.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:56:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+> Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+> 
+> By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+> different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+> would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+> and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+
+We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+
+The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+think.
+
+One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+(?)
+
+Best regards,
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000230.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000230.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d7b56776 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000230.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Thierry Mallard:
+> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+> > Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+> > 
+> > By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+> > different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+> > would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+> > and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+
+Basically, yes. It may be more complicated than this. For example, we must
+strive to keep only a single service handling items, while we may run
+multiple concurrent instances of AI services to have lots of smart bots.
+
+> We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+> doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+> world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+
+It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+modes.
+
+> The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+> respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+> think.
+> 
+> One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+> computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+> process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+
+It is. In fact, a lot of services will be spread across different nodes,
+but that's because these services are 'linear': each agent it manages
+deals chiefly with itself. On the other hand, some are harder to split.
+Item management for example, because of ownership and transfer issues:
+if item A is owner by entity E, and all items of entity E are on server S1,
+what happens when item is given to entity D, whose items are all on the
+server S2. You break locality, which defeats the purpose of functional
+services.
+
+However, for load balancing purpose, one feature of functional split is
+quite simple. If your item server, for example, manages 300,000 currently
+present items, it doesn't matter if everyone currently on-line decides
+to cluster in a single city: there are still 300,000 items to manage, and
+the amount of item interactions haven't changed much.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000231.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000231.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..110c8aea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000231.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Nahuel Greco:
+> You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+
+Not CORBA. As I said, 'a kind of ORB approach'. Not a straight lift
+from existing solutions, who are nice from a development point of view,
+but whose features are too generic and too heavy for optimisation.
+
+> What are the "functional" parts that you will be planning? 
+
+I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+but you'll have chiefly:
+- access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+  requests)
+- PC manager services
+- combat services
+- item services
+- databaser service (only one)
+- pathfinding services
+- bots service (AI)
+- magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+  other services as exceptions to their rules)
+
+then some geographic-based services
+
+- ecology managers
+- state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+  ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+  all it does)
+
+and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+
+I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+agent for some cases.
+
+> How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+> in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+> enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+> the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+
+We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+while you were away).
+
+Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+
+> There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+
+The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+moves).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000232.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000232.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b22b7064 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000232.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Nahuel Greco + ngreco@softhome.net
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:19:04 -0300 +

+
+ +
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+> but you'll have chiefly:
+> - access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+>   requests)
+> - PC manager services
+> - combat services
+
+I must switch to combat mode in the game?, i mean, when i combat, the scenary
+and the gameplay changes, like in the PSX rpg games?
+
+> - item services
+> - databaser service (only one)
+> - pathfinding services
+> - bots service (AI)
+> - magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+>   other services as exceptions to their rules)
+> 
+
+If the bots service want to pathfind to some location, they must ask to the
+pathfinding service?, and the pathfinding service must ask to the "state
+tracking" ?, suposse that i have a bot script, running in the bot service, 
+in some routine i must see if i can walk to some location, on the nort, on the
+ south, etc, to decide later where i will walk.. then.. each bot script 
+get_is_reachable() function will trigger a query to another service, and must 
+wait the response of that service  to continue the code execution.
+
+for thousands of scripts, that will be too slow, without thinking in the
+"wait, is your query is in the queque" issue.
+
+
+and btw, what scripting language do you plan to use for the code that will
+execute in thousand of instances..?
+
+
+
+> then some geographic-based services
+> 
+> - ecology managers
+
+That will instantiate, for example.. more gold to keep the economy ok ?
+
+
+> - state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+>   ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+>   all it does)
+> 
+> and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+> 
+> I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+> agent for some cases.
+> 
+> > How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+> > in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+> > enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+> > the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+> 
+> We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+> various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+> this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+> is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+> while you were away).
+> 
+> Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+> complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+> 
+> > There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+> 
+> The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+> agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+> the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+> migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+> by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+> moves).
+> 
+> -- 
+> Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+> 
+> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000233.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000233.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fda78d76 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000233.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Nahuel Greco + ngreco@softhome.net
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:21:38 -0300 +

+
+ +
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> 
+> It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+> fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+> if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+> modes.
+> 
+
+Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+the zones are fixed or dynamic?
+
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0bb912f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html @@ -0,0 +1,186 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:36:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
Wow, lots of questions.
+
+Ok, I'll try to summarise the replies to your points, without too much
+dilution. Bear with me, this is quite long, but I'll try to be as
+unambiguous as possible.
+
+Jared Mark said:
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+> but no profit can be made on that...)
+
+Point one: As explained somewhere else, the GPL make software "free" as
+in "freedom", not "free" as in "free of charge". You can pretty well make
+as much money as you want from your own game. The only thing is, if
+someone who got the program requests it, you have to give them access to
+the source for no more than reproduction costs on a "standard support"
+(i.e. giving only printouts of the code doesn't count) and shipping charges.
+
+Usually, people preventively put it on a download site somewhere, so
+they don't have to handle code requests on an individual basis. But
+that's not mandated.
+
+There are also other strings attached, namely, if you use that source
+you got to build a program which you distribute, you also have to provide
+the modified *OR* original (if unmodified) source under the same license
+terms.
+
+So:
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+
+Eagle Eye said:
+> Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering "exactly
+> where does their code stop, and my code begin?"
+
+But what is code exactly? Code is the little thingy that makes a lens
+flare when looking toward the sun. Code is the special multipurpose
+network protocol that communicate reliably across the Internet (ahem).
+Code is the state automaton engine that handles your mobs.
+
+Code is not the 1000-line table of all items and their stats. Code is not
+the list of states and transitions a mob (btw, if anyone wonders about that
+term, it's an old MUD term for 'mobile object', i.e. all autonomous entities
+in the game that have a behaviour, as opposed as just having properties).
+Code is not the glossy metal and rivets texture on your door. Code is not
+the wondrous mocaped triple head kick to smash a skull. Code is not the
+cuckoo sound you hear while walking thru a forest in game.
+
+The GPL doesn't cover these parts at all.
+
+Bryce Harrington said:
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code
+
+Minor nitpick: It's Nevrax, not NeL. NeL is the library, not the
+company :)
+
+But that's the gist of it. We do offer the code under a GPL license,
+but we retain the traditional copyright on our intellectual property.
+
+So, we don't want your game design. We can't get your game design.
+It's all yours. But if you add code to run a game using sensor gloves as
+the user interface and 3D glasses, then we have a right to request the
+code for that. We can then reuse the "HOW" you use them to play, but not
+the "WHY" you use them. How is code. Why is your game design.
+
+Eagle Eye said:
+> Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+> myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+> the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+> handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+> about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+> my world.
+
+Hmm, we have a little legal problem there. It's basically straight copyright
+law.
+
+Basically, you cannot copyright an idea. It's got nothing to do with whether
+NeL is GPL or a $1,000,000 licensed game engine, so don't let NeL's license
+stop you.
+
+You cannot copyright an idea. To take an example, let's say you're using
+a system of skill trees that are enabled by pre-required skills, level
+and required characteristics combinations, so that the "Accurate Eye Shot"
+skill requires Marksmanship, a level of 17, and a minimum dexterity of 38.
+
+You cannot prevent anyone from using a system of skill trees that require...
+(you get the gist). However, you can forbid anyone from using a set of
+skills that basically is a copy of yours. They have to make their own set
+of skills, and make them different "enough". That's where it gets tricky.
+The "enough" part is usually settled by court when there's a dispute.
+Merely renaming "Accurate Eye Shot" by "Advanced Bowmanship" doesn't
+count (usually), but the frontier between "my skill trees" and "your
+skill trees" isn't a straight and obvious line.
+
+To take a known analogy, copyright law doesn't prevent you from doing a
+novel set in the south during the civil war, with romance, and all that.
+However, copyright law will prevent you from calling your main character
+"Scarlett O'Hara".
+
+Leighton Haynes said:
+> This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+> 'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+> but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+> which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+> and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+
+"You have entered Ankh Morpok north". :)
+
+(sorry for the obscure MUD reference. I do hope people will recognise it)
+
+To get back to the initial post
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I
+> want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or
+> any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I
+> consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have
+> ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give
+> all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+flag flying at the top of the keep.
+
+But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+
+> *scratches head* 
+
+/em massages Jared's shoulders.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000235.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000235.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bb9a5344 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000235.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:55:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
Well, you summarised my summaries...
+
+According to Sal:
+>     If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+> located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+
+There are probably a few minor code modifications, required to support
+very specific rules (if you want to run elections, the code for booths
+and all that is probably hard code). But, if we've done our design right,
+most of a MMORPG design should be a matter of fiddling data.
+
+>     I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+> that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+> they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+> be copywritten material.
+
+Not "could". Is. It's automatic and non-debatable. When you write it,
+it is automatically covered by copyright, and you have to explicitely
+put it in the public domain (which is not *that* easy). With the
+provision about plot; as I explained before, a plot cannot be
+copyrighted, while specifics are. You can't copyright "evil arch-villain
+wants to overthrow king", you can only copyright "Mezzo Kharkan wants
+to overthrow king Ariflax".
+
+(hmmm, if I have infringed some copyright here, it's purely unintentional,
+ and was only for purpose of citation. Honest)
+
+>     I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+
+In the GPL text, yes. Derivative works refer to code. GPL says exactly
+nothing about data, so it's not covered by the license.
+
+>     Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+> they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+> out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+> would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+> that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+
+That's a good example. However (assuming Everquest code was GPL), once
+you'd produced a set of player and NPC models, and made a few zone files
+under a 3D modeller, and created your own items, you'd be able
+to launch Realquest.
+
+And try to put them out of business :)
+
+>     Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+> _everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+> which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+> libraries used in conjunction with them.
+
+By FSF's own admission, the source of any library "not commonly available
+with the system". Otherwise, we'd have to provide the Nvidia OpenGL driver
+sources if we wanted to run our game on a Nvidia-equipped PC :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000236.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000236.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5572d772 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000236.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Building a FAQ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Building a FAQ?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:00:00 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Jared Mark:
+> 1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled,
+> what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE
+> to edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle
+> all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the
+> core components?
+
+Well, what you now have is a very small client, so don't expect to run a
+RPG using that :)
+
+But essentially, yes. You now have to fire off your favorite 3D modeller
+and start making your own world (then, later get or write a converter to
+generate our map format), or, if you find the current world fine... start
+working on additional code to implement your features.
+
+> 2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of latteral area?)
+
+Basically? None. We haven't put any specific restriction. Bank accounts
+aren't implemented yet, so they don't overflow :)
+
+There are additional design decisions about the game I can't get into,
+but, regarding map size for example, we do not have any restriction.
+Apart from our capacity to produce them and the limitations on the
+support for distribution (if we have to install 10Gb on your HD, it's
+probably too much).
+
+As a comparison, the artic icefield distributed with Snowballs covers
+2.5km by 1.3, and we do expect to have a pair of PCs handle every services
+regarding such a game area and about 50-100 active players.
+
+(of course, that depends a LOT on how those services are sollicited, which
+ ties directly into game play)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cc8f396a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:38:51 +0100 +

+
+ +
+Jared Mark escribió:
+
+> I just want to make sure I understand this right... I use this source
+> code to build the base of my game...I do all sorts of work to make my
+> own game built around this core engine...I then try to get people to
+> play the game...
+>
+> #Sound easy, it is hard.
+>  People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping
+> it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+>
+> #Fucking HTML messages!!!
+> #Ok, with GPL you can sell it and make money but you CAN'T forbid the
+> buyer to sell, copy, or hire it.
+>  I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+> money...
+>
+> #And why people would pay for your service!?
+> #It isn't a easy thing But then, because of the way this license
+> reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set
+> up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use
+> it just like I am doing... So if all of the above is correct... what
+> is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When
+> someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but
+> all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole),
+> and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the
+> loop entirely.
+>
+> #Well, the code is GPL, but the GFX, SFX, History, and so aren't GPL
+> so you can't copy them. ( isn't this true? )
+> #Someone don't steal but derive the work, if this happens you have two
+> options:
+> #a) Forgive your project and join then
+> #b) Use their modifications ( that are GPL ) to make yours better. If
+> I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+> "open source" thing...
+>
+> # Well, Open Source is like Fire for the Primitive mens. Someone scary
+> and others just get hot near it.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000239.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000239.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cb879fcb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000239.html @@ -0,0 +1,121 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Dave Turner + novalis@novalis.org
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:23:47 -0500 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> 
+> > Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+> > automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+> > own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+> > that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+> > the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+> > flag flying at the top of the keep.
+> >
+> > But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+> > other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+> > game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+> 
+> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+> (because it's open source) and just "compile and run" my entire world.  I
+> don't care about the technology stuff, like those special gloves, or 3D
+> goggle implementation... I just want it so that if someone wants to copy
+> that skill tree of mine, they have to copy it from the ground up.  Not just
+> grab my source and say "Okay, it's mine now."  I'm not talking about
+> copyrights...
+> 
+> Look at it this way... I am copying some of the concepts from any number of
+> other MUDs, MMOLRPGs, and such... the concept of player housing is in Ultima
+> Online... I'm copying that, and making it better... What I'm not doing is
+> taking their source code for how they implemented it, and using it for my
+> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+> some of their own effort to make their "copy of my ideas" a reality.
+> 
+> > > *scratches head*
+> >
+> > /em massages Jared's shoulders.
+> 
+> Hehe, thanks. :)
+
+
+If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+there?  Remember that any improvements they make will go back to you
+(excluding the ASP loophole, but we're ignoring that).  Also, they will
+have to give you credit (you have the copyright on your parts).  So, why
+make them repeat the work?  Isn't that just a waste of their time? 
+Also, if they have to redo it, they won't have to release their stuff,
+so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+up, rather than really innovating.  
+
+I understand that you want your world to be unique - one way you can do
+this is by having a less free license on media.  This is what Nevrax is
+doing.  Another way is to not release your plots - after all, plot is
+what makes a game (or ought to).  Remember, nobody will play a game that
+is just like yours, but without your creativity.  
+
+You can make money on free software, even sticking with the GPL.  RMS
+did it for years, RedHat does it, Cygnus did it (now, RH owns them).  I
+suggest that you seriously consider the benefits of free software from a
+totally open mind - trying to think of it from a different point of view
+- not "How can I lock world up?", but "How can I make my players
+happier?"
+
+I think you'll find that even among proprietary games, the most open
+games had the best results - look at how customizable the Quake series
+is.
+
+Just my 2 cents.
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+"It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures" - Pug
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5b1db9fa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:28:01 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+> [... case of zone server failure ...]
+> Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+> will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+
+The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+which is supposed to take over.
+
+I'm still trying to get up to date with NeL design, so I dunno yet how the
+data are/will be stored.
+
+
+	Best regards,
+
+		Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000241.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000241.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3ee5ec68 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000241.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:21:23 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Thierry Mallard:
+> On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+> > [... case of zone server failure ...]
+> > Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+> > will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+> 
+> The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+> currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+> which is supposed to take over.
+
+That's what you get with a purely geographic design, like EQ/UO design.
+When a zone fails, you get kicked out, everything you gained since your last
+save is lost, and when you return, every single critter has respawned. All
+state is lost, since all state was located in a single process.
+
+With a functional approach, all game entities are "holographic"
+regarding to storage. They're a kind of "cloud" of various agents located
+on various services. If a geographic server dies, you get suddendly
+a kind of fog for a while. Another service starts up, gets back information
+about what critters are where from the AI services, where all players are
+from the various player services, and what items are grown where from the
+ecology services. It takes a little time, but you recover more
+gracefully.
+
+The same occurs if an AI server dies. Those critters that were managed
+by that service freezes, but then another service takes them over. They
+will probably forget a lot of what they were doing, but they don't "depop",
+since the geography service knows that there's that kind of beast
+that was located there.
+
+Of course there are services that are more critical than other. If a login
+service dies, all players using it are kicked out forcefully. If the
+item manager dies, your inventory locks up completely (but you still look
+like yourself, can move around, and talk).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6b015e9b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Nel] maybe bug + + + + + + +

[Nel] maybe bug

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:37:46 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am wrong.
+
+file moves.cpp=20
+     auto_ptr<CConfigFile> cf2( new CConfigFile() );
+    auto_ptr<CConfigFile> cf( new CConfigFile() );
+seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content when leave local =
+stack.
+but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this will cause bad =
+thing .
+did it ?
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am =
+wrong.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>file moves.cpp </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; =
+cf2( new=20
+CConfigFile() );</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; cf( =
+new=20
+CConfigFile() );<BR>seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content =
+when=20
+leave local stack.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this =
+will=20
+cause bad thing .</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>did it ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0--
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000243.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000243.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..06ff9c18 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000243.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:26:14 +0100 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+> (because it's open source) and just "compile and run" my entire world.  I
+...
+> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+> some of their own effort to make their "copy of my ideas" a reality.
+
+One important thing to know is, until you have released something, you are
+under no obligation to put any source available. The GPL doesn't prevent
+you from doing anything privately. It just says, "once other people run it,
+you have to share the source". So do not worry about not being the first.
+
+There's also a fact that, even if you release your server code, without
+the data it holds, it's worthless. You speak of plot, of situations,
+of recipes for game dynamics. All this (reread my message) isn't code.
+It's data. You might have a few specific bits here and there of code,
+but it's chiefly scripts that say how mobs react, items, events and code
+tables, and all that.
+
+To take another analogy: You are now mandated to release your network
+MP3 player source. You are not mandated to release any of the MP3 you
+composed.
+
+That ties into another typical false belief about modern game design.
+Code isn't what makes your game. Data is. A typical game development
+team often features twice, or three times as many artists, level
+designers, and game designers as pure coders. All that data production
+isn't in the GPL. Apart from the level proper (i.e. art), none of it
+never ever needs to appear on any site. And that's what makes the game.
+
+According to Dave Turner:
+> If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+> their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+
+Hmm, that's not reassuring the guy who's just said he did NOT want
+somebody doing that :)
+
+> so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+> up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+> up, rather than really innovating.  
+
+That's the real clincher, of course. If all they are doing is taking
+your game, and running it under their name, then:
+
+1) They're going to be second on the market
+2) They're going to be late in coming, because they WILL have to spend a
+   lot of time redoing your internal game data
+
+If this is a commercial endeavour, the only way they can expect to
+attract customers is if they do it a lot cheaper than you do.
+
+That's where the real fun begins. People have to realise the difference
+in paradigm between making, say, a Starcraft, and making a Shadowbane.
+Running an on-line game isn't a software industry, it's a SERVICE
+industry. The main costs isn't creating the game, it's dwarfed by
+the cost of running it. A classic game costs $40 to buy. An on-line
+game typically costs $150 if you play it for a year. Do you think
+this means you've made $100 profits on the game? No. What this means
+is that you've invested $100 in the game, the distributor got paid $20,
+and got $30 profit, instead of investing $10, giving $20 in distribution
+cost and getting $10 profit.
+
+Those $100 invested are about $25 in game dev (heavier than classic games)
+and $75 in infrastructure (server, bandwidth, customer service).
+
+(that's simplistic, but it's relatively representative of what's behind
+ an online game)
+
+Your competitor will reduce its investment, but the infrastructure costs
+remain not only identical, but the MAIN factor in costs. Forcing your
+competitor to maintain its price close to yours.
+
+In other words, stealing your game to run a competiting business isn't
+a major problem. And if it becomes one, you have legal recourse against
+them. After all, they copied your copyrighted works (the game data).
+Why go to the investment of making a massive world, if you open yourself
+to lawsuit.
+
+And anyway, if you want to make an immense effort designing everything
+by yourself, your counterfactor will still gain a lot of time, because
+*he* will use NeL to catch up on code quickly :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..44b367cf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html @@ -0,0 +1,47 @@ + + + + [Nel] System specs + + + + + + +

[Nel] System specs

+ Charles Dupont + duponc@rpi.edu
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:39:39 -0500 +

+
+ +
How much
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..adb9f60c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] System specs + + + + + + +

[Nel] System specs

+ Charles Dupont + duponc@rpi.edu
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:45:07 -0500 +

+
+ +
Charles Dupont wrote:
+
+> How much
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+> 
+Sorry hit the send button acidentaly.  On to the question.
+
+How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+when your service is up and running?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..33340577 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:17:10 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+While compiling the client workspace, I get an error at the end.  I'm a =
+Java programmer just looking into Nel and am very impressed.  If someone =
+could just shed some light on how to resolve this error:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>While compiling the client workspace, I =
+get an=20
+error at the end.&nbsp; I'm a Java programmer just looking into Nel and =
+am very=20
+impressed.&nbsp; If someone could just shed some light on how to resolve =
+this=20
+error:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib =
+"LIBCMT"=20
+conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library<BR>freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class<BR>Release/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c8c2f8ee --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Nel] maybe bug + + + + + + +

[Nel] maybe bug

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:36 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I have do follow modify to time_service.cpp
+so it will not crash=20
+ /* CConfigFile cf;
+  cf.load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &v =3D cf.getVar ("UniTime");
+  modify by  jaleco
+  */
+       CConfigFile *cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;
+  cf->load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &v =3D cf->getVar ("UniTime");
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have do follow modify to =
+time_service.cpp</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>so it will not crash </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;/*&nbsp;CConfigFile cf;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;cf.load =
+
+(ConfigFileName);</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D =
+cf.getVar=20
+("UniTime");<BR>&nbsp; modify by=20
+&nbsp;jaleco<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;*/<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
+sp;CConfigFile=20
+*cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;cf-&gt;load=20
+(ConfigFileName);<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D =
+cf-&gt;getVar=20
+("UniTime");</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540--
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dd712e63 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] agent service + + + + + + +

[Nel] agent service

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:33:47 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+how to get python15_d.dll
+since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>how to get python15_d.dll</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>since I have download from <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.python.org">www.python.org</A> but it don't have =
+debug=20
+version.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>where to find it ?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0--
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..647a8f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ + + + + [Nel] agent service + + + + + + +

[Nel] agent service

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:55:07 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Well it do'nt exist!
+I you are passion you can compile&link it else change the reference =
+library in the config.h.
+
+For that open the config.h in the include python directory and change =
+the:
+
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib")=20
+
+on
+
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16.lib")
+
+That all.
+
+I use the python 1.6 and in my config i have the #pragma =
+comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") at line 220.
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: jaleco=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:33 AM
+  Subject: [Nel] agent service
+
+
+  how to get python15_d.dll
+  since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+  where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well it do'nt exist!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I you are passion you can =
+compile&amp;link=20
+it&nbsp;else change the reference library in the config.h.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For that open the config.h in the =
+include python=20
+directory and </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>change =
+the:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#pragma =
+comment(lib,"python16.lib")</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That all.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I use the python 1.6 and in my config i =
+have the=20
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") at line 220.</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw=20
+  href=3D"mailto:jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw">jaleco</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 22, =
+2001 10:33=20
+  AM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] agent =
+service</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>how to get python15_d.dll</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>since I have download from <A=20
+  href=3D"http://www.python.org">www.python.org</A> but it don't have =
+debug=20
+  version.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>where to find it =
+?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e44b6352 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _psaux_module_class
+> Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+
+Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+
+Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+
+
+Sorry about that,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9ca5ce89 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] System specs + + + + + + +

[Nel] System specs

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:56:34 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Charles Dupont:
+> How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+> when your service is up and running?
+
+About an OC12 (655Mbits) per user.
+
+Ooops, sorry, was thinking about the pan-sensorial version with direct
+neural feed for complete immersion :)
+
+By design, we want to restrict the bandwidth to at most what a user with
+a 57.6K modem can 'swallow' realistically, which means a bandwidth
+of compressed data that tops at around 4Kbytes/s (or 32Kbits/s).
+
+Multiply by the number of simultaneous people a cluster has to serve,
+which we aim at around 3000-3500 players, and you get a little under
+an OC4 per cluster (about 110Mbits) for theoretical peak usage.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a3922258 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Olivier Cado + cado@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:41:12 +0100 +

+
+ +
We are very pleased that you are interested by NeL and our project.
+Thanks to free software, we are now working in cooperation with the
+community. So let's discuss some network issues.
+
+Here is the purpose of this message:
+- Present the future of the NeL Network Engine
+- Ask for your input on a couple of points
+
+At present, the Nel Network Engine is single-threaded. We plan to
+rewrite the engine using multi-threading. The library will be made up of
+five layers:
+- Layer 0: socket wrapper (roughly, present CBaseSocket + listening
+socket functionalities)
+- Layer 1: multiple socket multi-threaded I/O mechanism
+- Layer 2: adapted to CMemStream (allows serialization)
+- Layer 3: adapted to CMessage (contains type information)
+- Layer 4: using callbacks (as presently used in the services and
+provided by CMsgSocket)
+
+The main features of Layer 1 are as follows:
+
+External view:
+The user programmer will be able to send data (A), to check if some data
+has been received (B), and if so to get a data block from the receive
+queue.
+
+Implementation:
+(A) When the user requests to send data, his data block is put into a
+send queue. The actual sending is triggered off by a time flush trigger,
+a size flush trigger or an explicit flush trigger (at the user's
+demand). Let's say the queue control is executed in the main thread, in
+an update() method, called evenly.
+(B) Each connection is handled by a separate thread that sleeps while
+not receiving data so that no CPU time will be used if nothing is
+received on a particular socket. When incoming data is actually
+received, it is put into a global receive queue (synchronized with a
+mutex of course) and popped when the user requests to receive a block.
+
+This implementation still raises a few questions:
+(A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+(B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+
+I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+an idea about this issues.
+
+Thanks.
+Olivier Cado
+--
+http://www.nevrax.org
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d030b948 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:01:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+question it will be cool :))
+
+> (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+> a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+> the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+> know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+> optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+> 
+> I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+> an idea about this issues.
+> 
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6f66a6e9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Ludovic LIEVRE + ludovic.lievre@chaman.net
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:14:50 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi all,
+
+We also build a MM game.
+
+Our servers now run on NT and Linux and will soon be ported to Solaris.
+
+I've read that with LinuxThreads, after 100 threads the performances of the
+system downgrade.
+
+Another question about network engine: will your messages all be TCP or UDP
+? If UDP is used will you add a mechanism that make UDP reliable ?
+In the first stages of our game, TCP was used. We made some test and we saw
+a terrific ping (due to ACK mechanism) time even on our LAN (200ms). So we
+decide to use UDP instead...
+
+
+> -----Message d'origine-----
+> De : nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]De la part de
+> Nicolas Hognon
+> Envoye : jeudi 22 fevrier 2001 17:02
+> A : nel@nevrax.org
+> Objet : Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+>
+>
+>
+> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+>
+> i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+> question it will be cool :))
+>
+> > (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+> > a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+> > the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+> > know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+> > optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fcf22c77 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:29:39 -0500 +

+
+ +
I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+I get some more error messages:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decrypt
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Parse_Charstrings
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Done
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Init
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Close_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Start_Point
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Point1
+etc.......
+
+I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+Jay
+
+> > LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_psaux_module_class
+> > Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+>
+> Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+>
+> Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+> should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+>
+>
+> Sorry about that,
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2be37a93 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:53:43 +0100 +

+
+ +
Although  this  site  http://www.linuxraid.org/ isn't directly related
+to  NEL, it has a great number of tips and tricks on how to make Linux a little bit
+stable  and  how to expand Linux system resources (see the bottom of their page).
+
+Thursday, February 22, 2001, 5:01:57 PM, you wrote:
+
+
+NH> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+NH> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+NH> i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+NH> question it will be cool :))
+
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..be693e65 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:46:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+> I get some more error messages:
+>
+> [...]
+> 
+> I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+
+This is caused because some FreeType modules that we are using are not
+inlcuded in your FreeType compilation.
+
+We, Nevrax, are using GNU make to compil Freetype, and that compilation
+method include everything by default.
+
+As you are using an IDE to compil it you have to put the base components
+and, eventualy, some optional components.
+
+In your specific case the psaux module need the t1types and psnames modules.
+
+As NeL is a "work in progress" and that we migth add new features to
+font_generator, my advice is to compile *all* the optionals modules,
+all the C files listed at the end of the INSTALL file, in your FreeType
+compilation and installation process ... :-)
+
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d7c2e8d7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html @@ -0,0 +1,49 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:15:56 -0500 +

+
+ +
Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+
+-Jay
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..356d69b5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html @@ -0,0 +1,49 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:37:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+
+That's nothing :-)
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f34d4377 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:19:15 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it and got this error one I entered =
+the world
+"The instruction at "0x77fca615"referenced memory at "0x7c80fff7". The =
+memory could not be "read"
+
+I'm running windows 2000 and I get that message in both fullscreen and =
+in windowed modes.
+
+Not sure if this is a bug or what.
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it =
+and got=20
+this error one&nbsp;I entered the world</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"The instruction at =
+"0x77fca615"referenced memory=20
+at "0x7c80fff7". The memory could not be "read"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm running windows 2000 and I get that =
+message in=20
+both fullscreen and in windowed modes.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not sure if this is a bug or =
+what.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ec907ee0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:44:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
> "The instruction at "0x77fca615"referenced memory at "0x7c80fff7". The 
+> memory could not be "read"
+
+i'm not sure the guys from nevrax can do someting with this kind
+of informations :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9b1edca2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:03:33 -0800 +

+
+ +
In my experience with the engine these errors occur when a content file
+(mostly shape files) is missing.
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..863c4810 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:12:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
> (A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+> the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+> come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+
+i'm not sure that i understand this part of your mail and i hope you'll
+understand my answer because i'm not sure my english enough fluent :))
+
+you're asking want happened if you call send or write on a socket
+and there is not enough space in the tcp stack / transport layer buffer.
+it depends you've got blocking or non blocking socket.
+if it's a blocking socket you're thread will be blocked
+until you're data can be send by the tcp stack.
+if you're socket is in non blocking mode send/write
+will return you an error an errno will be EWOULDBLOCK
+or WSAEWOULDBLOCK under winsock.
+
+but i'm not sure it's the answer to your question
+because it is not a very huge problem.
+i make the same mistake because when you make
+some little test it's more common that receive failed
+with a wouldblock than send. when i began
+writting our network api (for the company i work)
+i made this mistake. but when i made
+some test with huge network messages and a poor modem
+i encounter tihs problem.
+
+i hope this help you
+but can you answer me that i know if i understand
+your problem :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..319c5329 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:25:06 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only =
+happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot =
+and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try =
+to look around, it gives me that error.
+
+I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've been trying to figure out were =
+this is coming=20
+from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can =
+stay in=20
+one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the =
+second i=20
+try to look around, it gives me that error.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope this sheds some more light on =
+the reason for=20
+this,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aadb8ea8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions

+ Brandon Barker + bebarker@meginc.com
+ Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:20:42 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hello I have 2 questions.
+
+1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+Mesa.  What should I do.
+
+2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+anyone can get it ... for free.  
+
+Thanks,
+Brandon Barker
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4692ffe1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html @@ -0,0 +1,133 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:29:01 +0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Guys,
+    Well, i finally managed to get the sample snowballs client and
+    server up and running, though it required quite a few code hacks
+    on my part. (Damn my wacky machine config). Oh yeah, this is all
+    for the linux code as well.. my machine is basically debian woody
+    (though various gnome/wine/sawfish things are latest releases
+    compiled from source)
+
+    Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+    than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+    with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+    be causing them, please do. 
+    In case anyone else has similar problems, things I got were:
+        time_service was exiting: temporarily fixed by removing the
+          call of _Callback() in checkConfigFiles() method of 
+          code/nel/src/misc/config_file/config_file.cpp. I haven't
+          managed to work out where it's being set, or why the value
+          isn't correct yet.
+          I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+          client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+          of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+          doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+        moves_service - suspect it had the same problem as above, it
+          _was_ segfaulting, but went away after the above hack.
+        the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+          being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+          it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+          code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+          texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+          the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+          out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+          late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+          and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+
+    As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+    some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+    the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+    background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+    since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+    shoving an '&' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+    (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+    etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+    Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+
+    Oh well, after all that, the client runs at about 5fps ;) Guess
+    I should spend some time seeing if I can get it faster eh?
+    Can anyone give me some benchmarkish figures for framerate 
+    under window~1? For a P3-550 with Geforce(1) would be best ;)
+    Then I can have a base to work from.
+
+    Anyhow, nice work guys. The framework (which I've forcibly had
+    to poke) seems pretty decent (I'm reserving judgement for further
+    praise until I've had more experience with it ;)). Having spent
+    some time working on one of these, I know just how much work it
+    is to get anything this complex working. 
+
+    
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..78631f34 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:53:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Brandon,
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+> 
+> 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+> with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+> Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+> Mesa.  What should I do.
+
+That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+this file ?
+
+If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+
+   http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+
+> 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+> compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+> anyone can get it ... for free.  
+
+We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..75bb0fde --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions and something else + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions and something else

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:12:28 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 03:53:18PM +0100, Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> 
+> Hello Brandon,
+> 
+> Brandon Barker wrote:
+> > 
+> > 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+> > with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+> > Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+> > Mesa.  What should I do.
+> 
+> That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+> this file ?
+> 
+> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+> 
+>    http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+
+> > 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+> > compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+> > anyone can get it ... for free.  
+> 
+> We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+> during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+> us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+
+*shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+Cygwin can be..... painful.
+
+On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+_almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+(Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+out patches?)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..03791eb4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:15:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Jason,
+
+Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try to look around, it gives me that error.
+> 
+> I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+
+I'm sorry but no so much :-(
+
+Could you give us more informations about your config and eventually try
+to compil it on a debug mode and send us the output lines that you will
+get on the console ...
+
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..94d69317 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Bret Guillet + destine@scholar.org
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:42:42 -0600 +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+Hash: SHA1
+
+I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+and
+get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+others who have similar capabilities.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
+
+iQA/AwUBOpp5ciQJr2c1l90oEQJtTwCfZPelcwnmgEGChRw9Lt+pl1gMQD4AoNDj
+lbd6OC/J1zIG26gezJHZzawa
+=HSCR
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..09b641f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some screen shots + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some screen shots

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:32:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+
+  
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e31e97bf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Bernard Hugueney + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:49:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
* Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org> [010222 19:33]:
+>
+> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+>
+
+Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+On a pessimistic note, I remember seeing in kernel traffic that Solaris
+was more effective in handling huge number of threads :-(
+Not only that, but Linus T. seemed not to recognize a defect is Linux,
+but claimed that it was a matter of trade-off and that Solaris was
+optimized for huge number of threads, and Linux more effective with
+small number of threads.
+
+But my memory is weak so I may be wrong...
+
+On a completly unrelated note, I remember seeing a NeL coder seeking assistance
+on a gcc mailing list for a trouble with exception causing an abort when
+linking with C code (I think). I do not remember if there was a useful response
+, but I saw a related message on boost mailing list:
+<citation>
+Hi,
+I finally figured out why the regex++ shared library was crashing when
+throwing an exception.  Somehow the shared library wasn't getting
+created correctly by using ld to link it.  When using ld with c++ code,
+some additional libraries need to be specified on the command line.  The
+easy fix is to simply call g++ to link the files.  g++ then calls ld
+with the appropriate commands.
+</citation>
+
+Maybe this can help...
+
+Cheers,
+Bernard
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0d7d1690 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some screen shots + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some screen shots

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:54:29 +0100 +

+
+ +
Yes, screenshot already took. we just wait a validation from the co-fonder
+to put them on the site.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Dim Segebart" <zager@teleaction.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:32 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Some screen shots
+
+
+> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org
+will be a
+> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+>
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fec4710b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions and something else + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions and something else

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:18:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Leighton Haynes:
+> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+
+If you know how autoconfig works, it's usually almost trivial.
+
+> (Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+> out patches?)
+
+Basically, for smallish patches (two-three liners), you may submit them
+here if you want.
+
+However, since not everyone is interested in seeing patches, at least
+until they are commited on the CVS, you may also submit them directly
+to code@nevrax.org, which, I think, is mentioned somewhere on the web
+site. That applies to larger patches as well; I don't think people
+appreciate seeing a 1000-line diff file landing in the mailing list :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9935d1a8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:22:56 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Bret Guillet:
+> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> and
+> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> others who have similar capabilities.
+
+It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ccc552e0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some screen shots + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some screen shots

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:24:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Dim Segebart:
+> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+
+We had a little internal vote about which of the many screenshots
+we took would look the best. Final validation pending now, but since
+we don't have any unspeakable acts perpetrated by the gnus on the
+hapless penguins, I don't think it will take long.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a3f50185 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions and something else + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions and something else

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:02:44 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> 
+> ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+> than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+> will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+> should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+
+Fixed, sorry about that ...
+
+It will be on the public CVS tonigth.
+
+
+> *shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+> Cygwin can be..... painful.
+
+I never tried yet, migth be interesting :-)
+
+
+> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+
+You can check the GNU website's documentation :
+
+   http://www.gnu.org/manual/autoconf-2.13/autoconf.html
+   http://www.gnu.org/manual/automake-1.4/automake.html
+
+And there is an online book, on RedHat's website, about Automake, Autoconf,
+and Libtool which is a quite good introduction to all this "stuff" :
+
+   http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html
+
+Contact me if i can help ...
+
+Have fun ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..551c2232 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:50:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> 
+> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+Threads are indeed system tasks internaly, and they are scheduled as such.
+The number of tasks and/or threads is only limited by NR_TASKS at compile
+time in Linux. And yes, the scheduler is not really effective at managing
+more than 1000~2000 tasks, and doesn't provide enough semantics to
+optimize thread use. This is rather a matter of design, and you could
+without great trouble design a Linux scheduler that handles a bunch of
+threads the way you expect it, but as far as I known, only the real time
+versions of Linux (such as RTlinux) have played with this part of the
+Linux code. Now about SMP, Linux does spreads threads over the available
+CPUs to optimize parallelism, but there's no limitation. And you'll only
+get a speed up on SMP machines if you really have parallel threads (ie.
+not a thread join every 10 lines !).
+
+I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing', sounds
+cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads everywhere : BeOS
+is a good example since everything than can receive events is in a thread.
+You can do it all by yourself : use one process and dispatch the incoming
+events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you would use one more than the other
+is a matter of design, and also depends on the type of application and the
+OS you use. The anwser is really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail,
+but I must admit I don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3a7d9e44 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:11 +0100 +

+
+ +
I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+Look at it by the URL http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html
+Project home page is http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d99dd3a6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Ian Holsman + nevrax@holsman.net
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:15 -0800 +

+
+ +
On 26 Feb 2001, you wrote in games.nevrax:
+
+ >Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+ >
+ >I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing',
+ >sounds cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads
+ >everywhere : BeOS is a good example since everything than can receive
+ >events is in a thread. You can do it all by yourself : use one process
+ >and dispatch the incoming events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you
+ >would use one more than the other is a matter of design, and also
+ >depends on the type of application and the OS you use. The anwser is
+ >really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail, but I must admit I
+ >don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+for discussions on different threading models you really should be 
+looking at, and drill down to the documents/technical papers.
+you probably don't want to maintain a thread per connected user, but
+have some kind of 'state' information which can be refered to by the 
+incoming request.
+
+
+http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html
+
+..Ian
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6d7e7630 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:59:11 -0800 +

+
+ +
> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> and
+> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> others who have similar capabilities.
+I'm running an athlon 700 with a geforce2 gts and get 15-30 fps (depending
+on scene complexity) with cvs from a couple days ago (and some modifications
+we're making which should only make it slower)  The speed hardly even goes
+down when I crank the resolution up to 1280x1024 which indicates to me that
+we are currently cpu limited.  You might also try commenting nlinfo() lines
+out if u really want a few more fps, but just judging by the speed
+improvements since snowballs .1 I'm not worried about future performance:)
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9bd1e786 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S' + + + + + + +

[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:11:48 +0100 +

+
+ +
here is an article about massive multiplayer game on gamasutra
+i don't read it yeat.
+
+http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010226/fitch_01.htm
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..185932b2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:18:00 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 06:22:56PM +0100, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> According to Bret Guillet:
+> > I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> > and
+> > get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> > others who have similar capabilities.
+> 
+> It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+> of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+> anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+How does one change these settings?
+
+Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+implemented yet.
+
+One thing that would be nice for those of us not in Nevrax would
+be a roadmap showing featureset planned and whos working on them 
+(and when). This would allow people out here to grab a feature they
+felt like implementing, and have a go at it, without running into 
+situations where someone else has already done it.
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..76080c00 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html @@ -0,0 +1,125 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:08:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
I already sent a mail in this list about how to increase the fps in
+snowball.
+(vincent archer, you should put this in the FAQ ;-)
+
+---------------------
+
+Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3f6cbc09 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:00:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Leighton Haynes:
+>     Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+>     than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+>     with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+>     be causing them, please do. 
+
+Well, we don't have hints, because, as you may surmise, these do not
+occur here.
+
+>           I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+>           client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+>           of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+>           doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+
+That's exactly what it's supposed to be, yes. So, either the callbacks
+are set incorrectly, or they are called while they should not be.
+
+>         the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+>           being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+>           it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+>           code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+>           texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+>           the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+>           out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+>           late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+>           and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+
+That's the strange part. It should not be loading an empty file name
+at all. I suppose the check doesn't hurt either, so we'll look at
+integrating it in future commits.
+
+>     As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+>     some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+>     the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+>     background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+
+Well, there is one. Basically, if you look at these processes, you'll
+see they first do a set of initialisations, then fork. The whole
+fork-and-exit sequence is used to guarantee that service N+1 isn't
+started before service N has at least performed the minimum required
+initialisations.
+
+>     since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+>     shoving an '&' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+
+You could too, but you'd have to slide in a "reasonable" sleep N in
+the shell startup script. With reasonable varying a lot.
+
+>     (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+>     etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+>     Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+
+That'll be added, yes.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d09538e7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs

+ Brandon Barker + bebarker@meginc.com
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:44:30 -0500 +

+
+ +
> > 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine
+> > with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with
+> > ATI Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and
+> > suggest I get Mesa.  What should I do.
+>
+> That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+> this file ?
+>
+> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+>
+>    http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+
+Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3c5af0ee --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:31:06 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> [ Linux and threads ]
+> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+/proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+
+But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default kernel
+can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+look deeper into this...
+
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..457beb3e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Lionel Berenguier + berenguier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:34:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 3:18 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+
+
+>
+> Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+> implemented yet.
+>
+
+We use a ROAM-like algorithm. See class CLandscape for more details. It is
+based on bezier patchs, not on heightmap, so it is slighty different from
+ROAM (as example, you can't deduce tesselation neighborhood from topology (a
+patch graph is not as simple as a heightmap :) )). There is lot of features
+(from Tiles, to distance based geomoprh) which make it different from the
+original ROAM document.
+
+Actually, I tink the only thing copied from ROAM is the triangle split/merge
+scheme.
+
+
+Lionel.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cdd60872 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:07:19 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+In fact, we don't want to know the theorical limit. we know that we can
+change this value in the kernel sources and recompile it.
+
+What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+case, we have to forget the solution where each
+socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Thierry Mallard" <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:31 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> > [ Linux and threads ]
+> > Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> > what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+> > threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> > the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+>
+> In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+> /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+>
+> But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default
+kernel
+> can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+> look deeper into this...
+>
+>
+> Shaman
+>
+> --
+> Thierry Mallard              |
+> GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+> key 0xA3D021CB               |
+> http://thierry.mallard.com   |
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a17656c5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:48:50 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+Yes, we didn't send a message to say what do we think about this library
+(sate thread).
+We currently look in deep the documentation and it seems a very interesting.
+We just have to be sure that this lib fulfils our requirements.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Dim Segebart" <zager@teleaction.com>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:17 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+> this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+> At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+> tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+> Look at it by the URL
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html
+> Project home page is http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0a6ba1f5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:57:11 +0100 +

+
+ +
+> In this case, we have to forget the solution where each
+> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+> and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+I encouter the same problem : one thread must manage more than one 
+socket on the server. the problem is how managing those socket
+in the thread. the problem is I want to be portable between windows
+and linux :((
+
+under windows there is many solution :
+  - select (the only one which is portable)
+  - windows event and message
+  - overlapped I/O
+
+under linux the only solution I know is :
+  - select / poll :  i'm not sure but i think the difference between
+    select and poll is that with poll you don't have to fill your array
+    before each call.
+
+another problem when a thread maange more than one socket is
+what your threads will do :
+
+a first approch is something like that :
+
+while(run)
+{
+   TestSokets();
+
+   for each socket which received something
+   do
+     read the incoming data
+     process the data
+     send data
+   done
+}
+
+but during one step of this loop your socket list must be locked
+so if a new socket need to enter this thread the calling thread will be
+blocked.
+
+a solution is to have more than one thread type.
+thread which test and read socket (perhaps wire in socket to)
+thread which to process a network message queue.
+(and perhaps thread which send network message)
+
+but it increase the number of thread so the maximum
+number of client is lesser.
+
+but i'm not really used to programming with thread yet so perhaps
+my problem are not really problems.
+
+i hope this can help and you can understand me :))
+and i think i'll take a look at http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+to ...
+
+good luck
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..96029b1f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] State Threads library + + + + + + +

[Nel] State Threads library

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:33:10 +0100 +

+
+ +
There is a very very big problem in the State Threads library
+
+The State Threads library is a derivative of the Netscape Portable Runtime
+library (NSPR) and therefore is distributed under the Netscape Public
+License (NPL).
+
+And the NPL is not compatible with GPL licence so we could not use it in
+your GPL project!!!
+
+Another less important problem is that it doesn't work on windows and our
+server must be able to run on windows (for debugging purpose for example)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..de2c505e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html @@ -0,0 +1,305 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800 +

+
+ +
--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+Hi Guys,
+    Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+    to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+    extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+    and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+
+    To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+    and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=<position of the 
+    Xxf86vm lib> - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+    it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+
+    Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.configure.in"
+
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -r1.23 configure.in
+232a233,251
+> dnl ============================================
+> dnl Check for XF86VidMode extension (-lXxf86vm)
+> dnl ============================================
+> AC_MSG_CHECKING("for XF86VidMode extension")
+> AC_ARG_WITH( xf86vidmode,
+>     [ --with-xf86vidmode=<path>     path to the XF86VidMode lib.
+>                           e.g. /usr/X11R6/lib],
+>     [VMLIB_DIR=$with_xf86vidmode
+>       AC_MSG_RESULT(using VidMode library located in $with_xf86vidmode.)],
+>     AC_MSG_RESULT(Compiling without Xf86VidMode and hence fullscreen support to compile with XF86VidMode support, use --with-xf86vidmode=<pathtolib>)
+> )
+> 
+> if test X"$VMLIB_DIR" != X;
+> then
+>     LIBS="-L$VMLIB_DIR -lXxf86vm $LIBS";
+>     CXXFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS -DXF86VIDMODE";
+> fi
+> 
+> 
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.driver_opengl.cpp"
+
+Index: driver_opengl.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.75
+diff -r1.75 driver_opengl.cpp
+140d139
+< 	_FullScreen= false;
+144c143,149
+< #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX) // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     memset(&_OldScreenMode,0,sizeof(_OldScreenMode));// zero the old screen mode
+> #endif //XF86VIDMODE
+> #endif
+> 
+> 	_FullScreen= false;
+225a231
+>         {
+226a233
+>         }
+351c358
+< 	  {
+---
+>     {
+353c360
+< 	  }
+---
+>     }
+355c362
+< 	  {
+---
+>     {
+357c364
+< 	  }
+---
+>     }
+364c371,385
+< 	attr.override_redirect = False;
+---
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     // If we're going to attempt fullscreen, we need to set redirect to True,
+>     // This basically places the window with no borders in the top left 
+>     // corner of the screen.
+>     if (mode.Windowed)
+>     {
+>         attr.override_redirect = False;
+>     }
+>     else
+>     {
+> 	    attr.override_redirect = True;
+>     }
+> #else
+>     attr.override_redirect = False;
+> #endif
+409,411c430,507
+< //	XEvent event;
+< //	XIfEvent(dpy, &event, WaitForNotify, (char *)this);
+< 
+---
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     if (!mode.Windowed)
+>     {
+>     
+>         // Set window to the right size, map it to the display, and raise it
+>         // to the front
+>         XResizeWindow(dpy,win,mode.Width,mode.Height);
+>         XMapRaised(dpy,win);
+>         XRaiseWindow(dpy, win);
+> 
+>         // grab the mouse and keyboard on the fullscreen window 
+>         if ((XGrabPointer(dpy, win, True, 0,
+>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync,
+>                           win, None, CurrentTime) != GrabSuccess) ||
+>             (XGrabKeyboard(dpy, win, True,
+>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync, CurrentTime) != 0) )
+>         {
+>             // Until I work out how to deal with this nicely, it just gives
+>             // an error and exits the prorgam.
+>             nlerror("Unable to grab keyboard and mouse\n");
+>         }
+>         else
+>         {
+>             // Save the old screen mode and dotclock
+>             memset(&_OldScreenMode, 0, sizeof(_OldScreenMode));
+>             XF86VidModeGetModeLine(dpy, 
+>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                    &_OldDotClock,
+>                                    &_OldScreenMode);
+>             // Save the old viewport
+>             XF86VidModeGetViewPort(dpy, 
+>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                    &_OldX,
+>                                    &_OldY);
+>     
+>             // get a list of modes, search for an appropriate one.
+>             XF86VidModeModeInfo **modes;
+>             int nmodes;
+>             if (XF86VidModeGetAllModeLines(dpy,
+>                                            DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                            &nmodes,&modes))
+>             {
+>                 int mode_index = -1; // Gah, magic numbers all bad. 
+>                 for (int i = 0; i < nmodes; i++)
+>                 {
+>                     nldebug("Available mode - %dx%d\n",mode.Width,mode.Height);
+>                     if( (modes[i]->hdisplay == mode.Width) &&
+>                         (modes[i]->vdisplay == mode.Height))
+>                     {
+>                         mode_index = i;
+>                     }
+>                 }
+>                 // Switch to the mode
+>                 if (mode_index != -1)
+>                 {
+>                     if(XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,
+>                                                DefaultScreen(dpy), 
+>                                                modes[mode_index]))
+>                     {
+>                         nlinfo("Switching to mode %dx%d,\n",mode.Width, 
+>                                                             mode.Height);
+>                         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),0, 0);
+>                         _FullScreen = true;
+>                     }
+>                 }
+>                 else
+>                 {
+>                     // This is a problem, since we've nuked the border from 
+>                     // window in the setup stage, until I work out how
+>                     // to get it back (recreate window? seems excessive)
+>                     nlerror("Couldn't find an appropriate mode %dx%d\n",
+>                                                                 mode.Width,
+>                                                                 mode.Height);
+>                 }
+>             }
+>         }
+>     }
+> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+659c755,776
+< #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX)// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> 
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     if(_FullScreen)
+>     {
+>         XF86VidModeModeInfo info;
+>         nlinfo("Switching back to original mode \n");
+> 
+>         // This is a bit ugly - a quick hack to copy the ModeLine structure 
+>         // into the modeInfo structure.
+>         memcpy((XF86VidModeModeLine *)((char *)&info + sizeof(info.dotclock)), &_OldScreenMode, sizeof(XF86VidModeModeLine));
+>         info.dotclock = _OldDotClock;
+> 
+>         nlinfo("Mode is %dx%d,\n",info.hdisplay,info.vdisplay);
+>         XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),&info);
+>         nlinfo("Switching viewporr to %d,%d,\n",_OldX, _OldY);
+>         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),_OldX,_OldY);
+>         // Ungrab the keyboard (probably not necessary);
+>         XUngrabKeyboard(dpy, CurrentTime);
+>     }
+> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+> #endif // NL_OS_UNIX
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.driver_opengl.h"
+
+Index: driver_opengl.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.50
+diff -r1.50 driver_opengl.h
+40a41
+> #include <X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h>
+219a221
+> 	bool						_FullScreen;
+230d231
+< 	bool						_FullScreen;
+238a240,244
+> //#ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     int                         _OldDotClock;   // old dotclock
+>     XF86VidModeModeLine         _OldScreenMode; // old modeline
+>     int                         _OldX, _OldY;   //Viewport settings
+> //#endif //XF86VIDMODE
+240d245
+< 
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd--
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5bb46c8b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:30:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+> much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+> said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+> case, we have to forget the solution where each
+> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+> and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e4127c7d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:10:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+> set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+> Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+> same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+> Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+
+ok this is a solution
+but as i said in my last mail the problem
+is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+
+under windows i know other solution than select / poll but under
+unixes i don't know other solutions.
+
+some one knows other one ?
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..835ff2f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Yan Babilliot + yan@nevrax.com
+ 28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100 +

+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5cba9d1b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:28:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
> is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+
+There's no 1000000 solutions :)
+In fact, if you want to be portable, there s only one solution (if think),
+it s select() that is available on all BSD socket system (all unix, linux
+and windows)
+The other solution is poll() that it should have better performance but is
+conform to XPG4-UNIX (not available on windows)
+And other solutions are OS specific (on unix, i don t know other solutions).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e5d91059 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:30:55 +0100 +

+
+ +
I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b4e53fc4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Yan Babilliot + yan@nevrax.com
+ 28 Feb 2001 15:38:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
oops sorry ;)   
+nel@nevrax.org wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+:(
+
+> On 28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100, Yan Babilliot wrote:
+
+> putain quand je vois ca ca mfout les nerfs d'informaticien. Zauraaient
+> du vous acheter des pots de yaourt avec des ficelles s'aurait ete moins
+> cher ... 
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> On 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> > Hi Guys,
+> >     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+> >     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+> >     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+> >     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+> > 
+> >     To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+> >     and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=<position of the 
+> >     Xxf86vm lib> - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+> >     it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+> > 
+> >     Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+> > 
+> > Leighton...
+> > 
+> > --
+> > 
+> > Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+> > Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+> > (08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+> > 0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5720e5cf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:05:17 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Yan Babilliot:
+> oops sorry ;)   
+> nel@nevrax.org wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+> :(
+
+Too much network destroys the network.
+
+I'm rather fond of smoke signals myself. A lot better than can'n string
+for long range transmission, but the bandwidth sucks :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..57cabbb7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:11:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
i'm aggry with you
+at this time i'll use select for windows and linux (or poll for linux)
+and design my server so that i can implement another better solution.
+
+has i said before better solution under windows are
+ - are windows message and event and i don't want use it
+ - overlapped I/O but i don't really understand how it works
+   so it's not easy to design a server which is able to use select and this
+   technic. perhaps you already know it but you can take a look at
+http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/articles/io-strategies.html
+
+
+> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2c444ca8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:49:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
Brandon Barker wrote:
+> 
+> Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+
+I change the OpenGL checking 2 days ago, and it's, now, checking the <GL/gl.h>
+file for the define GL_VERSION_1_2, as we are using OpenGL 1.2.
+
+Before that it was checking for the define GL_GLEXT_VERSION in the <GL/glext.h>
+file ... i now, that wasn't very clean :-(
+
+Otherwise, that could come from the fact that /usr/X11R6/include/ isn't in
+your default include directory list, ithat apear on some system and i plan
+to do this type of checking soon, in that case you should try to to execute
+the configure script as following :
+
+  $ CXXFLAGS="-pipe -I/usr/X11R6/include" ./configure [..]
+
+
+I hope that will help,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a8458d6c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:23:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+>
+>     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+>     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+>     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+>     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+>
+> [...]
+
+Nice ! :-)))
+
+Give some time to apply and test your patches, and it will be "integrated" ;-)
+
+Thanks,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b2474f3f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Zane + zane@supernova.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:04:59 -0800 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of
+adopting
+> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of
+service
+> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it
+would
+> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get
+the
+> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract
+model
+> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+already implemented.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a61b8511 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:52:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
you're right
+many people and project were confront to this problem
+and they resolve it.
+
+but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+
+i think for a web server
+the browser connect to the server when it need something
+but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+you're client is always connected to the server
+it's not exactly the same things.
+
+> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+> already implemented.
+> 
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ee0d6fa5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ elijah wright + elw@stderr.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:51:45 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+> you're client is always connected to the server
+> it's not exactly the same things.
+
+as i recall, the jabber.org people have done some scalability work for
+just this kind of thing- their IM client is an always-on/always-available
+service.
+
+might be fun to ask some of them what their ideas on this are.
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aa6befad --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Zane + zane@supernova.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:08:22 -0800 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Nicolas Hognon" <cblt@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+>
+> i think for a web server
+> the browser connect to the server when it need something
+> but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+> you're client is always connected to the server
+> it's not exactly the same things.
+
+If nothing else this simply means that it has spent a great deal of time
+optimizing opening and closing connections (and waiting on incoming
+connections).  Perhaps combining their opening/closing optimizations with
+the optimizations Jabber has made for always-on connections would give us
+the best of both worlds.  I'd be willing to bet that Jabber has already
+borrowed a lot of code from projects like Apache.
+
+Anyway, at this point I don't think I have anything else usefull to add to
+the discussion since I doubt I'll get around to doing the research myself so
+back into lurker mode. :)
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3af23ac3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Bernard Hugueney + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:13:12 +0100 +

+
+ +
* Zane <zane@supernova.org> [010228 19:17]:
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+>
+>
+> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+> already implemented.
+>
+> -E.J. Wilburn
+> zane@supernova.org
+>
+Indeed, this is a MUCH debated suject. But I'm afraid Apache is not
+the fastest example to follow (they have special constraints such as modules
+interface) Zeus and TUX Threaded linUX webserver or BOA come to mind.
+http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html seems interesting but a nit out of date ...
+Anyway, there was a discussion on lkml on how to overcome select()/poll()
+shortcomings with a new API. If it made it to kernel 2.4, you should be
+looking that way.
+
+Bernard
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..356f473a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:15 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+I too am hoping to get snowballs running on a Debian/GNU Linux
+machine.  I too have run into the error message mentioned in the
+title.  I'd love to see a patch for it.  So far I've traced it down to
+a call to setupTexture which is exiting the program.  My C++ skills
+are not strong enough to hunt this down any further.
+
+I have an Athalon 700, 512M ram, and GeForce 256.  
+Libc6 2.2.2, 
+gcc 2.95.3, 
+
+Other info available on request.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Love is like a snowmobile flying over the
+System Administrator   frozen tundra that suddenly flips, pinning you
+Got.net                underneath.  At night the ice weasles come. "
+<robert@got.net>             -- Matt Groenig (Simpsons creator)
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..32bd239e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,197 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Author + + + +

2001-February Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9246506d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,197 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Date + + + +

2001-February Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9f74d8d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,456 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-February Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d9d79edf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,197 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-February Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9f74d8d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,456 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-February Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000087.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000087.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..713d9057 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000087.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling in VC++ + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling in VC++

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:10:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+Why haven't you said that you have example game data up?!?
+
+When i tried to open the .dsw's VC++ would just say that it was a "Empty 
+workspce" with "0 projects".
+The reason for this was that all the VC++ files from the CVS are in UNIX
+format, i.e. the linefeeds are messed up.
+You should proboblay put a notice in the "Install" file about it.
+
+/David
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000088.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000088.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..16c604ed --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000088.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling in VC++ + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling in VC++

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:56:19 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to david.belius@chello.se:
+> Hi,
+> Why haven't you said that you have example game data up?!?
+
+We're still trying to finish the complete packaging for the 0.2 version
+(i.e. the first running prototype). And finding a machine to run an
+"official" server here for those who can't run server and client at home.
+
+The big announce will be made as soon as we've got time to polish that
+(and we'll probably open a download area so people without CVS can get
+ full packages at key points)
+
+> The reason for this was that all the VC++ files from the CVS are in UNIX
+> format, i.e. the linefeeds are messed up.
+
+The CVS tools should "properly" convert text files between unix/dos
+linefeed conventions. We're using WinCVS 1.1 here, and the files are
+correctly formatted while working on a windows client, and back to LF when
+commited.
+
+> You should proboblay put a notice in the "Install" file about it.
+
+We'll put a Caveat there.
+
+Oh, and by the way, happy new millenium all!
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000089.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000089.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..67623cf6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000089.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)

+ Nevrax + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:14:04 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi, and happy new millenium to everyone!
+First I'd like to say that I'm gratly impressed by your work!
+So please do not take my comments as hard critcisms...
+
+You seem to be building everything from scratch while a quick search
+at sourceforge.net for MMORPG seems to suggest that there are plenty
+of already available material. You say that you had to work at your own
+(impressive) speed and did not want to hijack an existing project...
+But you seem to give up quite easly to good part of the GPL, you could have
+forked an existing project: the maintainer would hold no grudge against you
+as you would not take any of his/her volonteers but instead bring your team
+to some work he/she could also benefit.
+Even for low-level, everyday use classes, you seem to always invent your
+own (callbacks, smart pointers and sockets come to mind).
+I understand that your code is (honestly !) of far better quality than the
+average available crap (I also find myself to rewrite much of the code that
+I'm supposed to used) but there are exceptions (libsigc++ or any stuff from
+www.boost.org for exemple). I just hope that nevrax does not lose time because
+of a Not Invented Here syndrom...
+>From the docs online I had even the impression that you wanted to use you own
+custom scripting language (for ai I think). What is wrong with Python ?
+I even thought that the stackless (especially microthreads) would be nice
+for massively numerous agents :-)
+
+
+By the way, I'm impressed by that amount of work already done, how many of
+the mythical month-man have you put in current cvs ?
+
+It is not often that I can build source code so easly on my alpha!
+You bug-fixes were really fast... (I mean FAST!)
+
+For your information, on a Debian woody, one should 'apt-get install'
+the following packages (might go in a README or INSTALL):
+automake
+libtool
+libstlport-dev
+truetype2-dev
+bison
+flex
+libfreetype6-dev
+xlibmesa-dev
+
+beta-builder, soon beta testerly yours,
+ 
+Bernard
+(typing startx right now to see the beast)
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000090.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000090.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..98732b34 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000090.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:38:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello, what you say is very interesting and I understand question let me
+answer to your python question you say
+
+>From the docs online I had even the impression that you wanted to use you
+own
+>custom scripting language (for ai I think). What is wrong with Python ?
+>I even thought that the stackless (especially microthreads) would be nice
+>for massively numerous agents :-)
+
+Python is a very good script language, I used it a lot for many work and i
+know it quite well, but if we use a custom scripting language that doesn't
+mean that we'll use it exclusively. On the contrary the script will allow a
+good opening to use any external script languag and we encourage that. Note
+that Nel script is an script for write agent and is an agent ortiented
+language we desigined  to lighten the design of agents and game desigin
+code.
+And it seem to be more heavy to write the Python agent interface instead of
+write the custom Nel script, due mainly to the lack of means to write agents
+connection in a classical language and secondly the need to rewirte C++ code
+for the python interface.
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000091.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000091.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c6e2ec72 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000091.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:54:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi and Happy New Year to all NeLers !
+
+Bernard: Thanks for your comments.
+It's always nice to hear that kind of stuff. :)
+
+At 09:14 PM 1/3/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>any stuff from
+>www.boost.org
+
+We've been trying to reach boost.org since we saw your comment in the bug 
+tracking system, but it doesn't seem to respond... :(
+
+Also, would you mind configuring your email to display your name instead of 
+"Nevrax" ? It's a bit unsetteling...
+
+Thanks !
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000092.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000092.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..12fb5f0f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000092.html @@ -0,0 +1,98 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:25:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello and thank you for your post.
+
+First of all, we had the problem to know which external copyleft libraries
+we could
+use in our project. We looked at libraries such as ACE (for sockets),
+ClanLib (for
+system init), libsock++ (for sockets too), SDL and so on, but the problem
+was that these libraries did too much things or not enough. If a library
+does only a few things, we can rewrite it very quickly (with, why not,
+copy/paste)
+because we want the install very easy to do. If the user has to find and
+install
+10 libraries before starting the NeL compilation, he surely gives up. When
+the
+library does too much stuff, it often doesn't do it in the same way we want
+to do it,
+and we can only reuse a few part of the library. And in this case, it's sad
+to compile
+during 1 hour an external library for only reusing only a few functions. We
+prefer copy/pasting
+these parts directly in our lib.
+
+> I understand that your code is (honestly !) of far better quality than the
+> average available crap (I also find myself to rewrite much of the code
+that
+> I'm supposed to used) but there are exceptions (libsigc++ or any stuff
+from
+> www.boost.org for exemple). I just hope that nevrax does not lose time
+because
+> of a Not Invented Here syndrom...
+
+We'll take a look on libsigc++ and boost. we don't reinvent every thing, we
+only reuse code
+from other libraries but we don't include the entire libraries.
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000093.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000093.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..739a47c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000093.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)

+ Bernard Hugueney + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:42:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+You really deserve the responsiveness award !
+
+* Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com> [010104 11:04]:
+> Hi and Happy New Year to all NeLers !
+>
+> Bernard: Thanks for your comments.
+> It's always nice to hear that kind of stuff. :)
+>
+> At 09:14 PM 1/3/01 +0100, you wrote:
+> >any stuff from
+> >www.boost.org
+>
+> We've been trying to reach boost.org since we saw your comment in the bug
+> tracking system, but it doesn't seem to respond... :(
+My bad luck :-( It's the first time that it's down so long since I know it.
+I'm on their mailing list so I should know soon what is wrong.
+(While typing this mail I read
+
+   >The web site should now be available at 64.226.201.52
+   >
+   >The DNS change to resolve boost.org to that address has been  submitted to
+   >Network Solutions. I have no idea how long they will take to process it.
+   >
+on the mailing list, will teach them not to deal with NS when they could use
+GANDI :-) )
+
+their cvs is host at sourceforge http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/
+and they are an e-group www.egroups.com
+The very best C++ coders I've ever heard are there.
+
+>
+> Also, would you mind configuring your email to display your name instead of
+> "Nevrax" ? It's a bit unsetteling...
+Damn, I'll have to modify my nevrax account, sorry for the mistake,
+(modifs done)Is that ok now ?
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000094.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000094.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8f26c3a8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000094.html @@ -0,0 +1,50 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 04 Jan 2001 11:58:27 +0100 +

+
+ +
At 11:42 AM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>(modifs done)Is that ok now ?
+Yes, thanks. And thanks for the pointer too !
+We'll have a look at it ASAP.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000095.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000095.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..103f4d12 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000095.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] Boost.org + + + + + + +

[Nel] Boost.org

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:20:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
 From the information gathered on
+
+http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License
+
+there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and 
+the GPL.
+
+So I'm afraid this is a good reason why we can't use them in NeL, even 
+though they appear to be of very good quality. :(
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000096.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000096.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d237c942 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000096.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ + + + + [Nel] Boost.org + + + + + + +

[Nel] Boost.org

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:35:10 +0100 +

+
+ +
At 12:20 PM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and 
+>the GPL.
+
+And then again, maybe not. :)
+We're looking into it...
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000097.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000097.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b4e134e8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000097.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] re: Boost library + + + + + + +

[Nel] re: Boost library

+ Bernard Hugueney + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:54:08 +0100 +

+
+ +
Olivier Lejade <lejade@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> From the information gathered on
+>http://64.226.201.52/more/lib_guide.htm##License
+>there seems to be licensing incompatibilities between Boost librairies and
+>the GPL.
+
+I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think. You could not
+submit Nel for Boost acceptance, 
+<Quote>
+   To avoid the frustration and wasted time of a proposed library being
+   rejected, it must meets these requirements:
+     * The license must meet the license requirements below. Restricted
+       licenses like the GPL and LGPL are not acceptable.
+ </Quote>
+Note : "proposed library"
+No such restriction is imposed on code using a boost library: reading from
+their licenses requirement
+<Quote>
+     * Must grant permission to copy, use and modify the software for any
+       use (commercial and non-commercial) for no fee.
+</Quote>
+
+You cannot say that you are not allowed to use a library with such a
+licence (Note: ANY USE ) !!!
+
+I don't want to force you to use anything from boost, I just would want you
+to dismiss it for bad reasons. As a C++ coder, I found it invaluable
+(just for fun you migh look at the lambda library at http://lambda.cs.utu.fi/
+I never thought it would be possible). Of course their aim to "perfection"
+leads them to move slowly at time (network threads are not there yet...), and
+their advanced use of C++ clashes with crappy compiler (VC++). But if you
+can use it, their stuff really shines. I have not tested their py_cpp
+c++ to python wrapper, but I though you might be interested.
+
+Happy coding !
+Bernard
+(kinda jealous not to code for my living)
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000098.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000098.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..851267c8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000098.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] re: Boost library + + + + + + +

[Nel] re: Boost library

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:15:31 +0100 +

+
+ +
At 06:54 PM 1/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
+>I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+>library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think.
+
+Yes, this is what I noticed afterwards. :P
+Hence my "maybe not" post.
+Anyways, thanks for the clarification and now that the license issue is 
+cleared, rest assured we'll pay closer attentions to the libs.
+
+>I don't want to force you to use anything from boost, I just would want you
+>to dismiss it for bad reasons.
+
+Arg, it wasn't my intent !
+At first reading I just thought there was licensing compatibilities issues 
+that prevented the use of the libs for GPL/LGP programs. My bad: I was 
+wrong. But it sure would be nice to incorporate Boost stuff if we can !
+Actually, Cyrille (3D Lead) went to school with one of the Boost guys... :)
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000099.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000099.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1f6e2e7d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000099.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:23:04 -0800 +

+
+ +
the debian packages for all requirements are installed- stlport has been
+installed from source over the debian version to get the nebula device
+(radonlabs.de) to work.
+
+
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/include/freetype2
+-I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2 -Wp,-MD,.deps/mini_col.pp -c mini_col.cpp
+-fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mini_col.lo
+In file included from ../../include/nel/3d/mini_col.h:33,
+                 from mini_col.cpp:26:
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `class
+NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator
+NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::erase(NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator)':
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h:402: parse error before `*'
+../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CQuadGrid<NL3D::CMiniCol::CFace>::selectAll()':
+
+any ideas?
+
+michael warnock
+in orbit entertainment
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000100.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000100.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..27947c6f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000100.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:53:19 +0100 +

+
+ +
> c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/include/freetype2
+> -I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2 -Wp,-MD,.deps/mini_col.pp -c mini_col.cpp
+> -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/mini_col.lo
+> In file included from ../../include/nel/3d/mini_col.h:33,
+>                  from mini_col.cpp:26:
+> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `class
+> NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator
+> NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::erase(NL3D::CQuadGrid<T>::CIterator)':
+> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h:402: parse error before `*'
+> ../../include/nel/3d/quad_grid.h: In method `void
+> NL3D::CQuadGrid<NL3D::CMiniCol::CFace>::selectAll()':
+>
+> any ideas?
+
+This bug has been fixed yesterday evening. The cvs is synchronized at night.
+So if you update now, it should be ok.
+
+Thank you for the report.
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000101.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000101.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..25395ceb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000101.html @@ -0,0 +1,98 @@ + + + + [Nel] re: Boost library + + + + + + +

[Nel] re: Boost library

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:39:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Bernard Hugueney:
+> I think there is a misunderstanding. They exclude GPL and LGPL for
+> library SUBMITTED. They want more of a BSD kind I think. You could not
+> submit Nel for Boost acceptance, 
+
+Well, the same problem applies in the reverse. Libraries in Boost are
+not covered by a GPL-style license. Which means that they cannot be
+lifted verbatim from the Boost collection and incorporated in ours
+without a lot of precautions.
+
+Just like someone cannot take a GPL piece of software and turn it into
+a BSD-licensed software, one cannot lift a BSD-style software and put it
+into a GPL project. The licenses are "orthogonal" in style, and you
+cannot decide on your own to alter the license; only the copyright owner
+may do so.
+
+The license styles from Boost (the ones I've looked at so far, boost.org
+is unresolvable at the moment) would prevent us from incoporating them
+in NeL. We *might* be able to use them side-by-side, asking people to get
+them (and provide mirrors) and compile them separately, but they cannot
+be *part* of NeL.
+
+> <Quote>
+>      * Must grant permission to copy, use and modify the software for any
+>        use (commercial and non-commercial) for no fee.
+> </Quote>
+> 
+> You cannot say that you are not allowed to use a library with such a
+> licence (Note: ANY USE ) !!!
+
+The GPL is better worded in that regard; it says for no fee exceeding
+the cost of support and shipping (meaning I'm am not obliged to *pay* for
+*your* copy).
+
+> leads them to move slowly at time (network threads are not there yet...), and
+> their advanced use of C++ clashes with crappy compiler (VC++). But if you
+
+Well, we also have to use VC++. The compiler quirks may drive us crazy
+with all its "let's not bother the developper with clarity, I'll guess
+what he wants to do" philosophy, but there aren't many useful C++
+development environments when you're working on a Windows system.
+
+> Happy coding !
+> Bernard
+> (kinda jealous not to code for my living)
+
+Many of us code for a living. We just don't code what we'd really love
+to code :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000102.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000102.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..380e9689 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000102.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] re: Boost library + + + + + + +

[Nel] re: Boost library

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:00:26 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Vincent Archer:
+> a BSD-licensed software, one cannot lift a BSD-style software and put it
+> into a GPL project. The licenses are "orthogonal" in style, and you
+> cannot decide on your own to alter the license; only the copyright owner
+> may do so.
+
+A little precision on this subject.
+
+I was about immediately bashed on the head for my old-timer attitudes.
+The arguments I raise mostly apply to the so-called "original BSD
+license", which had relatively strict advertising clauses on it which
+are incompatible with GPL. But for some reason, my brain is still locked
+in the 10-years-ago mode, and I don't think I'll ever shake it out 'till
+retirement home.
+
+The recent BSD licenses let you mix things with GPL. So, we can't
+incorporate Boost libraries into NeL, but we can happily get them, and
+use them, just like we use FreeType and the like.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000103.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000103.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..47afbadd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000103.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more) + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile problems on debian gnu/linux (more)

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:04:10 -0800 +

+
+ +
>
+
+Thanx for the quick fix!
+
+here's another bug:
+same debian 2.2 (stlport 4.1 now)
+
+making the client:
+
+c++ -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/stlport -g -O2  -o client  client.o
+language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o
+player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o -lnelnet
+-lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/lib -lfreetype -lstlport_gcc
+zone_manager.o: In function `NLMISC::IRunnable type_info function':
+/usr/include/stlport/iostream(.text+0x0): multiple definition of
+`NLMISC::IThread::create(NLMISC::IRunnable *)'
+client.o(.text+0x0):/usr/include/stlport/stl/_construct.h: first defined here
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+make[2]: *** [client] Error 1
+
+we got all the servers running with code from the last hour or so.
+
+michael
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000104.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000104.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6b34c2ff --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000104.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

[Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:35:04 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+We're experimenting with NEL, great work :)  We are
+developing an MMRPG called "Warp Storm" and subscribe
+to the Open Source development model.  Our company
+and game is born from an GPL'ed project I've been
+leading since 1998 called Bang formerly known as
+JavaMOO.  Now we have a funded development effort
+going and have offices in San Francisco and Reykjavík,
+Iceland.
+
+We are considering assigning few full time programmers
+helping expanding the NEL code-base.
+
+I've gathered that there is support for .3ds for objects
+and .bmp for textures.  Is this correct?
+
+Is there any animation support?
+
+In what format is the landscape data tiles?
+
+Do you have an example of a config file for the
+client?
+
+What glues .3ds object files to the landscape
+data?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+robofly@in-orbit.net
+
+President, InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+http://www.in-orbit.net/
+http://this.is/bang/
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000105.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000105.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3b43f495 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000105.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

[Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:33:31 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi, and welcome on the NeL list.
+
+> I've gathered that there is support for .3ds for objects
+> and .bmp for textures.  Is this correct?
+
+> In what format is the landscape data tiles?
+
+> What glues .3ds object files to the landscape
+> data?
+
+NeL library supports only .tga file format and .dds (direct draw surface)
+for texture compression (DXTC1, 3 and 5).
+
+The NeL's way to load 3d data is the following:
+NeL only reads NeL binary files (like .shape, .bank or .zone). No support
+for .3ds files will be provided by Nevrax.
+The reason is .3ds is an old file format, and many new features simply don't
+exist in it. (vertex weigting, multiple UV by
+vertex, patches, vertex color ).
+It's easy to build and save NeL data. You only have to write a data
+converter or an export plugin for your
+3d editor linked with NeL. A paper about 'how to deal with NeL data' will
+come soon in the NeL documentation.
+
+At Nevrax, we use a set of crude plugins for 3dsmax builded with NeL, but we
+can't distribute them for the moment.
+
+> Is there any animation support?
+
+Support for animation is planed for sure. Those features will be implemented
+in NeL:
+
+ * Hierarchical animations.
+ * Skinning (with T&L support).
+ * Morphing (blend shape).
+ * IK solver (position constraints only).
+ * Animation layers (merge of weighted animations with IK constraints).
+
+> Do you have an example of a config file for the
+> client?
+
+I let my co-workers respond to this question.
+
+Thanks for your interest in the NeL project.
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000106.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000106.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1b06b16d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000106.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

[Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:48:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+I m one of those co-workers and I'll answer your last question :)
+
+> Do you have an example of a config file for the
+> client?
+
+yes we have example of config file.
+in the generated doc, here:
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/class_NLMISC__CConfigFile.html
+you ll find an example of config file and a sample of code that use it.
+
+we already use the config file in the client, look client.cpp and search
+CConfigFile ;-)
+
+it's really quite easy to use, not very flexible but the reason is that we
+use lex&yacc so
+we can't do all we wanted (like rewrite config file)
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000107.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000107.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bbb47e20 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000107.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

[Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:15:48 +0100 +

+
+ +
hello again,
+
+Just a question, why do you want the client config file?
+The client automatically create the config file if the config file is not
+found.
+Anyway, you *can't* run the client because game data are not available for
+now.
+(you should wait few weeks ;-)
+
+vianney
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000108.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000108.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf7bc723 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000108.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:03:49 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Olivier,
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 3:08:59 AM, you wrote:
+OL> How is your organisation working ? What is the task of each office ?
+OL> How much funding did you receive ? Why did you head for San Fransisco ? 
+
+Here is how our organization works:
+We have a management team of 8 people:
+President/Director, CFO, Producer, Lead World
+Builder/Lead Writer, Production Manager, VP of
+Computer Graphics, Lead Graphics Designer and
+Lead Animator.
+
+We have a Concept & Illustration team of 6
+full time people.  This team is creating the
+look of the Warp Storm universe.
+
+We have a Computer Graphics team of 5 full time
+people.  This teams includes Donald Graham who
+did for an example the first 3D model of the
+International Space Station for NASA and Jim Citron
+who was the Technical Director for Tippett studios
+and worked for example on Starship Troopers,
+Armageddon and Godzilla.
+
+We have a Game Mechanics team of 3 full time
+people.  This team is responsible for designed
+the complex skill based role-playing system
+for Warp Storm.
+
+We have programming team of 4 full time
+programmers.  This team is currently focusing
+on the game mechanics and evaluating different
+Open Source technologies that we are considering
+for the Warp Storm platform.
+
+Currently we only have 3 employees in Reykjavík,
+Iceland.  Our CFO, Lead Graphics Designer and
+Interface Designer are working out of Reykjavík
+the rest of the team is working out of San
+Francisco.
+
+We have received $760.000 in seed funding,
+this investments is all from Icelandic
+sources.  We are in the progress of opening
+our 1st Round of financing and plan to raise
+$6.000.000 from sources here in the USA.
+
+The reason for why we choose San Francisco
+are: I worked here in 1996/1997 for a company
+now called http://www.smartvr.com/ and I
+made a lot of connections here then.  It is
+relatively easy to get high quality illustrators
+and CG people here.
+
+OL> That would be nice. We'd have to find a working methodology though: we
+OL> didn't expect other gaming companies to jump in so soon,  even though it 
+OL> was inevitable in the long term.
+
+We would very much like to figure out the best way for
+us to work together.
+
+OL> How many programmers is there in your dev team ?
+
+We currently have only 4 programmers but we are looking
+for 2 right now and will be looking for over 10 when
+we receive our 1st round of financing.
+
+We have a prototype written in Java3D that has
+been active since 1998.  We have a more recent prototype
+that helped us secure our seed funding written in C++
+that uses Crystal Space for the rendering part.
+
+Currently, Dmitry, our lead programmer is working on
+creating a prototype using NeL as the net platform and
+using the Nebula Device for 3D rendering.   Nebula has a
+bunch of advanced 3D stuff, you can check it out at
+http://www.radonlabs.de/ or
+http://sourceforge.net/projects/nebuladevice/
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+robofly@in-orbit.net
+
+President, InOrbit Entertainment, Inc.
+http://www.in-orbit.net
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000109.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000109.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..89f05c04 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000109.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:16:45 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Vianney,
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 3:15:48 AM, you wrote:
+VL> Just a question, why do you want the client config file?
+VL> The client automatically create the config file if the config file is not
+VL> found.
+
+I just wanted it to see what initial configuration
+elements you were using.  I wanted this to gain
+better understanding of the NeL platform.  I had already
+taken a look at the link you sent me earlier and
+it does not reveal anything about the actual content
+of the config file.
+
+VL> Anyway, you *can't* run the client because game data are not available for
+VL> now.
+VL> (you should wait few weeks ;-)
+
+Why did you decide to release NeL as an Open Source
+project on the Internet if there is no way to
+run it once compiled?
+
+We have a lot of game assets ready that we would
+love to test out in the NeL engine.  We use mostly
+Maya for our content but we have a couple of 3D Max
+licences as well.  Our content currently includes;
+textured characters with animations, buildings,
+props, height maps and landscape textures.
+
+Warm regard,
+Róbert Viðar Bjarnason
+robofly@in-orbit.net
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000110.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000110.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a9421ed9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000110.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:22:56 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Cyril,
+
+Thanks for the info :)
+
+Monday, January 08, 2001, 2:33:31 AM, you wrote:
+CC> At Nevrax, we use a set of crude plugins for 3dsmax builded with NeL, but we
+CC> can't distribute them for the moment.
+
+Are those plugins going to be Open Source? If not, is there
+any change of buying them of you, even if they are in a
+crude stage?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000111.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000111.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..da38afe4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000111.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL compilation + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL compilation

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:37:31 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Everybody,
+
+
+Yesterday we've integrated the AI code to NeL and it breaks the GNU/Linux
+compilation :-(
+
+We are working on it and it should be fix soon ...
+
+
+Sorry about that,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000112.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000112.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1acf72eb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000112.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some comments from a new user (builder only for now)

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:43:26 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Bernard,
+
+Nevrax wrote:
+>
+> It is not often that I can build source code so easly on my alpha!
+
+Nice to ear that :-)
+
+> You bug-fixes were really fast... (I mean FAST!)
+
+My response wasn't that fast ... sorry :-)
+
+
+> For your information, on a Debian woody, one should 'apt-get install'
+> the following packages (might go in a README or INSTALL):
+> [...]
+
+I updated the NeL's INSTALL file as you suggest it ... thanks.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000113.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000113.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..77b19755 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000113.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:22:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Robert,
+
+> I just wanted it to see what initial configuration
+> elements you were using.  I wanted this to gain
+> better understanding of the NeL platform.  I had already
+> taken a look at the link you sent me earlier and
+> it does not reveal anything about the actual content
+> of the config file.
+
+okay, next is the content of our current config file, hope it s what you
+wanted:
+---- start of client.cfg
+// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+
+FullScreen = 1;    // 1 = yes
+Width = 800;
+Height = 600;
+Depth = 32;
+Position = { 819.269836, -738.062500, 8.277040 };    // the last position on
+the world (just for prototype)
+Heading = { 0.882310, -0.470668, 0.0 };    // the last direction of the head
+Background = { 100, 100, 255 }; // color of the background (temporary, we
+wait the sky ;)
+DataPath = "\\server\gamedata\data/;    // path of where the data are
+FontPath = "\\server\code\fonts\arialuni.ttf;  // the font used in the
+client (will change)
+LanguageIndex = 1;
+LSHost = "pc38"; // our login service server
+Login = "foo"; // my login
+Password = "bar";    // ... i know, it s not crypted :(
+ShardIP = "192.168.1.38"; // the last selected shard
+CharacterIndex = 0; // the player character (between 2 possibilities)
+---- end of client.cfg
+
+> Why did you decide to release NeL as an Open Source
+> project on the Internet if there is no way to
+> run it once compiled?
+
+Don't forget that it's a quite young project
+and we need time to give some examples and stuff.
+We are currently working on a small sample world to give the community
+something to kick around and showcase what NeL can do.
+We'll release it next week so please be a little patient.
+Of course this example will have nothing to do with our final game.
+Its main use is to help us to test our library and test our team production
+pipelines.
+
+But, as you said below, you could use NeL with your own data: you don't
+*have* to wait for us to provide it !
+
+> We have a lot of game assets ready that we would
+> love to test out in the NeL engine.  We use mostly
+> Maya for our content but we have a couple of 3D Max
+> licences as well.  Our content currently includes;
+> textured characters with animations, buildings,
+> props, height maps and landscape textures.
+
+Great! The only potential problem could be for exporting datas.
+But it would be neat if you wrote an export pluggin for Maya,
+and we'd love to have another example of a program using NeL.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000114.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000114.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2b62bc78 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000114.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?= + francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+ Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:13:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+What version do i need?
+Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL files.
+
+-- 
+François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+lebarjack@inzebox.com
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000115.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000115.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ca525cd6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000115.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Francois,
+
+François Périchon wrote:
+> It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> What version do i need?
+
+We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+
+Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+
+> Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL files.
+
+I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on tonigth
+on the public CVS.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000116.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000116.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1420f6eb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000116.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ Bernard Hugueney + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:53:28 +0100 +

+
+ +
In-Reply-To: <20010111171840.A1365@nevrax.com>; from valignat@nevrax.com on Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 05:18:40PM +0100
+* Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com> [010111 19:18]:
+
+> Hello Francois,
+>
+> FranBmPis PBqSichon wrote:
+> > It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> > What version do i need?
+>
+> We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+
+I must say that for once, Debian unstable is not up to date.
+I've been left behind recently, even with latest (today's!) xlibmesa-dev :-(
+Just when I bought those extra 128 Mo that 'd have allowed me to compile Nel
+AND move he mouse cursor :-(
+And lanch ddd on the servers because they segfaulted on startup here :-(
+
+I've no relevent version number as debian seem to sync them with XFree's:
+
+bubastis:~# dpkg -p xlibmesa-dev |fgrep Version
+Version: 4.0.2-1
+
+bubastis:~# dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h
+/usr/include/GL/glext.h
+but 
+bubastis:~# fgrep GL_GLEXT_VERSION `dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h`
+#define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+which does not plese Nel :-((
+
+Not your fault As I think one ought to be on the bleeding edge when developping
+or your behind when releasing...
+
+I hope to catch up soon...
+
+Bernard
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000117.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000117.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c4f2c919 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000117.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 12 Jan 2001 12:01:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Bernard,
+
+Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> 
+> I must say that for once, Debian unstable is not up to date.
+> I've been left behind recently, even with latest (today's!) xlibmesa-dev :-(
+
+Ouch !...
+
+> Just when I bought those extra 128 Mo that 'd have allowed me to compile Nel
+> AND move he mouse cursor :-(
+
+How much RAM did you have, before, to run X ? :-P
+
+> And lanch ddd on the servers because they segfaulted on startup here :-(
+
+Did you get any error messages ?
+
+The servers are, actually, made in a way that they print an error message and
+create a core files if there is a problem, that's help us to debug them ...
+
+> I've no relevent version number as debian seem to sync them with XFree's:
+> 
+> bubastis:~# dpkg -p xlibmesa-dev |fgrep Version
+> Version: 4.0.2-1
+> 
+> bubastis:~# dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h
+> /usr/include/GL/glext.h
+> but 
+> bubastis:~# fgrep GL_GLEXT_VERSION `dpkg -L xlibmesa-dev |fgrep glext.h`
+> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+> which does not plese Nel :-((
+
+The Mesa's rpm that we used is the 3.3-5 version and it use the version 7
+of GL/glext.h. We didn't test it with any other version of mesa yet, but you
+could try to download the lastest version of GL/glext.h at
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h and recompile NeL.
+
+An other solution is to remove the GL_GLEXT_VERSION checking in the 
+configure.in file and in the src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_extension.h
+file and try to recompile NeL ...
+
+I hope that could help you to fixed your problem ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000118.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000118.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..51d29661 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000118.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] File formats+other stuff

+ Robert Bjarnason + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:49:54 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Vianney,
+
+VC> okay, next is the content of our current config file, hope it s what you
+VC> wanted:
+
+Thanks :)  I like the way you have the config files
+created automaticly, I just hadn't looked in the
+right place...
+
+VC> Don't forget that it's a quite young project
+VC> and we need time to give some examples and stuff.
+VC> We are currently working on a small sample world to give the community
+VC> something to kick around and showcase what NeL can do.
+VC> We'll release it next week so please be a little patient.
+VC> Of course this example will have nothing to do with our final game.
+VC> Its main use is to help us to test our library and test our team production
+VC> pipelines.
+
+I appolagice for my tone of voice before, I really
+appricate your effort and think your doing a great
+job.
+
+VC> Great! The only potential problem could be for exporting datas.
+VC> But it would be neat if you wrote an export pluggin for Maya,
+VC> and we'd love to have another example of a program using NeL.
+
+We've already started to work on a plugin, written in MEL Script,
+using info gathered from the source code distribution.
+Do you have any formal documents on the different fileformats?
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000119.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000119.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2501d7bf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000119.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] Maya plugin issues + + + + + + +

[Nel] Maya plugin issues

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:26:32 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I've been looking into writing a Maya plugin.
+What I understand so far is the following,
+please correct me if I'm wrong.
+
+-There are no specific fileformats for NeL,
+only different serialized objects like
+CZone, CShape(Stream), CMesh and others.
+
+-We would probably use the Maya API and
+write a C++ plugin for Maya instead of
+a MEL script.
+
+-I will have to convert the NURBS based
+Maya curves into 3DSMax based Bezier
+Pathces.
+
+This is really exciting. Now we can
+really integrate functions in Maya
+for bump-mapping and things like that.
+And this will be a plugin that creates
+ready to use NeL objects instead of
+some kind of an endless conversion
+madness :)
+
+If anybody has some code already written
+for either the Maya or NeL part of such
+a plugin, please let me know.  Our plugin
+will will be released under the GPL.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000120.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000120.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..01e0542c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000120.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?= + francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+ Mon, 15 Jan 2001 12:42:46 +0100 +

+
+ +
I used the mesa 3.2 which comes with the unstable debian.
+On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> Hello Francois,
+> 
+> François Périchon wrote:
+> > It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> > What version do i need?
+> 
+> We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+> 
+> Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+> to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+> 
+> > Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL
+> files.
+> 
+> I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on
+> tonigth
+> on the public CVS.
+> 
+> Thanks,
+> 
+> Cedric.
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+
+-- 
+François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+lebarjack@inzebox.com
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000121.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000121.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1b3f2f60 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000121.html @@ -0,0 +1,121 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ Debian User + bernard@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:52:06 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+I reported my disappointment in a previous post when I saw that up to date
+ unstable Debian seemed not current enough for NeL.
+I decided to get the latest release from www.mesa3d.org.
+It was 3.4 but include/GL/glext.h seemed not current enough according to
+the test of GL_GLEXT_VERSION  :-(( (I have 6, requested is 7)
+So I decided to browse the CVS (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/Mesa/include/GL/glext.h?rev=1.31&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&cvsroot=mesa3d ) and here is what I found:
+
+Revision 1.31, Sat Jan 6 22:46:13 2001 UTC (10 days, 1 hour ago) by
+   gareth
+  Branch: MAIN
+  CVS Tags: HEAD
+  Changes since 1.30: +9 -4 lines
+Implementation of GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3.
+...
+  /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+#define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+ 
+???
+You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+
+Btw, I tried to fake a correct GL_GLEXT_VERSION but compile fails later
+:-(((
+
+I hope to be able to compile NeL again soon ...
+
+Bernard
+
+
+* Fran?ois P?richon <francois.perichon@inzebox.com> [010115 18:41]:
+> I used the mesa 3.2 which comes with the unstable debian.
+> On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:18:40 Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> > Hello Francois,
+> > 
+> > François Périchon wrote:
+> > > It seems i need recent mesa3d libs to build NeL.
+> > > What version do i need?
+> > 
+> > We are using Mesa 3.3 and we didn't test NeL with other versions yet.
+> > 
+> > Could you tell us which version of Mesa you used, that could help us
+> > to have a better idea about the NeL compatibility ...
+> > 
+> > > Could you write the software versions needed to build in the INSTALL
+> > files.
+> > 
+> > I updated the INSTALL file on that way ... it should be available on
+> > tonigth
+> > on the public CVS.
+> > 
+> > Thanks,
+> > 
+> > Cedric.
+> > 
+> > _______________________________________________
+> > Nel mailing list
+> > Nel@nevrax.org
+> > http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> > 
+> > 
+> 
+> -- 
+> François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+> francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+> lebarjack@inzebox.com
+> 36, rue de la clef
+> 59800 Lille
+> France
+> Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+> Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000122.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000122.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..592137a2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000122.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:01:06 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+>   /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+>
+> ???
+> You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+>
+> Btw, I tried to fake a correct GL_GLEXT_VERSION but compile fails later
+> :-(((
+>
+> I hope to be able to compile NeL again soon ...
+>
+> Bernard
+
+In fact, it's Mesa that is not synchronized with the official sgi
+extensions.
+You have to get the last glext.h from sgi:
+
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+and it will be ok (we ll add this to the INSTALL file)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000123.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000123.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..673a6618 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000123.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Nel] opengl problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] opengl problem

+ =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_P=E9richon?= + francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+ Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:46:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+I finally made it with the mesa3D 3.3, the last glext.h from sgi, the
+correct stlport, and so on.
+I './configure' without any problems (I set  the --with-stlport,
+--with-stllib, and th --with-python)
+When making the opengl driver i end with this error :
+
+In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used to
+declare any objects
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+./../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:274: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `SrcArg0RGB'
+
+and this one :
+
+In file included from ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:338,
+                 from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::texEnvOpRGB(unsigned int, NL3D::CMaterial::TTexOperator)':
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h:157: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+./../../../include/nel/3d/driver_material_inline.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::texEnvArg0RGB(unsigned int, NL3D::CMaterial::TTexSource,
+NL3D::CMaterial::TTexOperand)':
+
+
+What have i made wrong? Where this mysterious NL3D is defined?
+
+-- 
+François "Le Barjack"  Périchon
+francois.perichon@inzebox.com
+lebarjack@inzebox.com
+36, rue de la clef
+59800 Lille
+France
+Tel : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 90 
+Fax : +33 (0)3 20 55 55 92
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000124.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000124.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c5d816ff --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000124.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out + + + + + + +

[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:49:11 +0100 +

+
+ +
We are proud to announce the release of the 0.1 version of the NeL
+framework. This framework comprises the NeL library, and a basic client
+and server source for a simple game called Snowballs. The CVS should be 
+updated shortly, and the 0.1 release tagged. We are including the data
+files required for the game separately.
+
+If you are following the CVS regularly, you just have to update,
+download the data archive, compile and run. Otherwise, you may also
+download separately the source tree of the 0.1 release without using
+CVS.
+
+NB: The source archives are packages with CVS data, you may use unpack
+them and use then CVS to update.
+
+We do not provide a pre-built set of binaries, as the 0.1 release isn't
+really representative of the full technology we want to use. The server
+has been tested under Linux, and the client under Windows. If you want
+to use it, there is a demo server running here, on which the client
+connects by default.
+
+For any questions, we have opened a new mailing list dedicated to the
+Snowballs demo game, snowballs@nevrax.org (see on the web site for
+a subscription page). Questions and reports about the client, server,
+or game data themselves should be directed there, while all discussions
+on the NeL library itself should remain under the nel@nevrax.org
+original mailing list.
+
+The archives may be downloaded there from the main page:
+	http://www.nevrax.org/
+
+Note: The zip archive contains the source tree in DOS text format,
+whereas the tar.gz archives contains the source in Unix text format.
+Both should compile equally well, but one might be easier to edit on
+your system.
+
+See you on the snowfields :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000125.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000125.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..04d7b72a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000125.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out + + + + + + +

[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:17:13 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello to all !
+I just want to share some of my recent hints on building NeL for Win32
+platform with MC VC++ 6.0
+(Sorry  for  experienced  developers  familiar  with Win32 development
+environment,  may  be someone else like me usually do work primarily under
+UNIX and very seldom under Win32)
+
+*** STLPort ***
+First  problem  is  building  STLPort.
+(first big problem is the size - You  should  have  a  plenty  of  free space on
+hard drive. After building, STLPORT occupies 377946112 bytes)
+For some reasons or other nmake
+doesn't  work for me as expected (could be what Win32 also hate me as I
+hate Win32 ;)) It reports a lot of errors and exit.
+To  solve  this problem you can do File->Open STLport-4.0\src\vc6.mak and
+then do Build->build  stlport.exe
+Finally, after 30 minutes of hard work (PIII500/256), you'll have .lib & .dll & .pdb
+files   located   at  STLport-4.0\lib  Manually copy .lib (and I think
+.pdb  too)  to  VC default \lib location and don't forget to copy .dll
+files to some place where they could be found at runtime.
+
+*** FreeType 2 ***
+You need GNU Make 3.77 Link at FreeType site is broken
+Grab it from ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zip
+or any other place you want
+(http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&query=gnumake-win32.zip&doit=Search&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&hits=50&matches=&hitsprmatch=&limdom=&limpath=&hidepackages=on&hidedistfiles=on&hidefreebsd=on&hideopenbsd=on&hidenetbsd=on&hidelinux=on&f1=Count&f2=Mode&f3=Size&f4=Date&f5=Host&f6=Path&header=none&sort=none&trlen=20)
+You   should  have both path to GNU make and path to VC++ binaries as well
+to be included into your PATH environment variable
+next do:
+make setup visualc
+make
+copy freetype-2.0\obj\freetype.lib to VC++ default \lib location
+and  also  copy  freetype-2.0\include\freetype directory itself  to VC \include
+directory (just to save some clicks and typing while building NeL)
+
+To be continued ...
+
+PS.  Many  thanks to Paul Oakenfold and his wonderful music which save
+me from going madness while working under MS Windows :))
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000126.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000126.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..65a648dc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000126.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32 + + + + + + +

[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:08:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
hello (sorry for my english)
+
+i've got problem to build the client under win32.
+i build all the nel components and stl-port and freetype.
+then i build the client and i've got some problem at the link.
+
+here is the error log of visual.
+
+ > Linking...
+ > MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib"
+ > conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+ > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+ > _psaux_module_class
+ > Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+ > Error executing link.exe.
+
+
+perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+
+i try to link with the debug and the release one renaming it to 
+freetype.lib cos the client link with freetype.lib
+but it don't work.
+i read different message in the mailing list and i understand the 
+freetype lib is build in obj directory but one my system it's build in lib.
+is it possible i've got a wrong version of freetype ?
+
+thank you for you're help.
+
+and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and 
+server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000127.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000127.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d96d1e77 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000127.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ + + + + [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32 + + + + + + +

[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32

+ Jerome Lanquetot + jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:38:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
You have to add the psaux files in the freetype project (do it manually it
+works)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Nicolas Hognon" <cblt@cblt.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:08 PM
+Subject: [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32
+
+
+> hello (sorry for my english)
+>
+> i've got problem to build the client under win32.
+> i build all the nel components and stl-port and freetype.
+> then i build the client and i've got some problem at the link.
+>
+> here is the error log of visual.
+>
+>  > Linking...
+>  > MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib"
+>  > conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+>  > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+>  > _psaux_module_class
+>  > Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+>  > Error executing link.exe.
+>
+>
+> perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+> i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+> and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+>
+> i try to link with the debug and the release one renaming it to
+> freetype.lib cos the client link with freetype.lib
+> but it don't work.
+> i read different message in the mailing list and i understand the
+> freetype lib is build in obj directory but one my system it's build in
+lib.
+> is it possible i've got a wrong version of freetype ?
+>
+> thank you for you're help.
+>
+> and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and
+> server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+> cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+>
+>
+> --
+> Nicolas Hognon
+> home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+> work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+> #ICQ : 36044443
+>
+> Enjoy the silence
+> (DM)
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000128.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000128.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7b7a8a4e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000128.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out + + + + + + +

[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:41:37 +0100 +

+
+ +
> *** STLPort ***
+> First  problem  is  building  STLPort.
+> (first big problem is the size - You  should  have  a  plenty  of  free
+space on
+> hard drive. After building, STLPORT occupies 377946112 bytes)
+> For some reasons or other nmake
+> doesn't  work for me as expected (could be what Win32 also hate me as I
+> hate Win32 ;)) It reports a lot of errors and exit.
+> To  solve  this problem you can do File->Open STLport-4.0\src\vc6.mak and
+> then do Build->build  stlport.exe
+> Finally, after 30 minutes of hard work (PIII500/256), you'll have .lib &
+.dll & .pdb
+> files   located   at  STLport-4.0\lib  Manually copy .lib (and I think
+> .pdb  too)  to  VC default \lib location and don't forget to copy .dll
+> files to some place where they could be found at runtime.
+
+yes
+
+> *** FreeType 2 ***
+> You need GNU Make 3.77 Link at FreeType site is broken
+> Grab it from
+ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/freetype/contrib/win32/gnumake-win32.zi
+p
+> or any other place you want
+>
+(http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=medium&query=gnumake-win32.z
+ip&doit=Search&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&hits=50&matc
+hes=&hitsprmatch=&limdom=&limpath=&hidepackages=on&hidedistfiles=on&hidefree
+bsd=on&hideopenbsd=on&hidenetbsd=on&hidelinux=on&f1=Count&f2=Mode&f3=Size&f4
+=Date&f5=Host&f6=Path&header=none&sort=none&trlen=20)
+> You   should  have both path to GNU make and path to VC++ binaries as well
+> to be included into your PATH environment variable
+> next do:
+> make setup visualc
+> make
+> copy freetype-2.0\obj\freetype.lib to VC++ default \lib location
+> and  also  copy  freetype-2.0\include\freetype directory itself  to VC
+\include
+> directory (just to save some clicks and typing while building NeL)
+
+yes too...
+
+In fact, I put in the INSTALL all things that you have to do to compile
+freetype, stlport and so on.
+But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax think
+that it s not our job
+to explain how to compile others external libraries.
+
+Thanks for all these informations and we hope that they helps everybody to
+compile more easily.
+
+
+Vianney
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000129.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000129.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7d995a39 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000129.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32 + + + + + + +

[Nel] some questions about buildings Nel under win32

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:48:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
> perhaps i make a mistake building freetype.
+> i've got freetype-2.0.1 which generate freetype200b8_D.lib (debug)
+> and freetype200b8MT.lib (release) in the lib directory.
+
+when we compile freetype2.0.1, it generated a freetype.lib in the
+freetype-2.0.1/obj directory.
+we never rename the library name or something like that.
+we don t have freetype200b8MT.lib or these strange lib filename.
+it seems with the name that it s freetype version 2.0.0 beta 8 and it s
+perhaps the reason.
+
+> and i've got another question a the 0.1 release of nel client and
+> server. where are the data. in another module than code.
+> cos i can see data on the webcvs but i can't get it with wincvs ?
+
+no, we don t put the data on cvs because it s too slow to get them and
+binaries are
+not very well managed in cvs. if you want data for the snowballs game, you
+have to
+download the tarball or zip file from the www.nevrax.org web site.
+
+Vianney
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000130.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000130.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..463c4390 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000130.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out + + + + + + +

[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out

+ David Mentre + David.Mentre@inria.fr
+ 18 Jan 2001 10:59:01 +0100 +

+
+ +
"Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com> writes:
+
+> But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax
+> think that it s not our job to explain how to compile others external
+> libraries.
+
+It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000131.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000131.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..87a16fdf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000131.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gl driver + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gl driver

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:01:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<from Snowballs mailing list>
+
+Hi,
+
+> here is the error:
+> ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: EBadDisplay: Missing Required GL =
+extension:
+> GL_ARB_multitexture
+
+
+The NeL's GlDriver works only if the GL_ARB_multitexture and =
+GL_EXT_tex_env_combine are present.
+If you don't have those extensions but your card can do multitexturing =
+(if you have GL_SGIS_multitexture=20
+for exemple), try to update your driver.
+
+Today, the client has been tested under Geforce and Geforce II.
+
+Regards
+
+Cyril Corvazier.   =20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV>&lt;from Snowballs mailing list&gt;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Hi,<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&gt; here is the error:<BR>&gt; ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception:=20
+EBadDisplay: Missing Required GL extension:<BR>&gt;=20
+GL_ARB_multitexture<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>The NeL's GlDriver works only if the GL_ARB_multitexture and=20
+GL_EXT_tex_env_combine are present.</DIV>
+<DIV>If you don't have those extensions but your card can do =
+multitexturing (if=20
+you have GL_SGIS_multitexture </DIV>
+<DIV>for exemple), try to update your driver.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Today, the client has been tested under Geforce and Geforce =
+II.</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Regards</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Cyril Corvazier.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_009A_01C0815F.86D29DC0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000132.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000132.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0f5ba20f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000132.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out + + + + + + +

[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:56:11 +0100 +

+
+ +
> > But, I had to remove these information because, some people in Nevrax
+> > think that it s not our job to explain how to compile others external
+> > libraries.
+>
+> It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+> never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+
+Exact, We know that but in fact, if we put a doc explains all things to do
+to
+install external lib, we ll have to follow each new external lib version,
+try them
+and correct eventually the file. It s the reason that we prefer to refer to
+the
+external lib documentation to install them.
+Anyway, we'll perhaps put a special section on our web site or/and with nel
+to
+explain more in deep how to get and compile external stuffs.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000133.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000133.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e6f8565e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000133.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] Server + + + + + + +

[Nel] Server

+ Jerome Lanquetot + jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:01:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, =
+naming and time.
+I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each service =
+and the order in which they start.
+
+Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+
+Regards
+
+J=E9r=F4me Lanquetot
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#c8bcb0>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have some problems launching the five =
+services:=20
+</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>log, </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>login,=20
+</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>moves, </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>naming and=20
+time.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I found nowhere some help about the=20
+functionnalities about each service and the order in which they=20
+start.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could you help me to launch correctly =
+the=20
+services.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>J=E9r=F4me Lanquetot<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0066_01C08178.AAEBC290--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000134.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000134.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..623fe440 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000134.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + [Nel] Server + + + + + + +

[Nel] Server

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:19:46 +0100 +

+
+ +
>I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, naming
+and time.
+>I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each service and
+the order in which they start.
+>Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+
+first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:
+
+--------begin of ns.cfg-------
+Host="your nameservice ip";
+Port=50000;
+--------end of ns.cfg-------
+
+after, you launch, in order:
+- naming                   <-- used to find a specific service by his name
+- log                         <-- centralized log for all service
+- time                       <-- centralized time reference
+- login                      <-- centralized user account for all shard
+- moves                   <-- a shard
+
+of course, some services will create some config file that you have to fill.
+you have to put in the ls.txt the moves service host ip like this:
+
+----
+Shards = {
+ "your moves service host ip", "the name of the shard appears on the client"
+};
+----
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000135.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000135.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..47b547ae --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000135.html @@ -0,0 +1,285 @@ + + + + [Nel] Server + + + + + + +

[Nel] Server

+ Jerome Lanquetot + jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:50:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Thanks Vianney,
+
+I have now two bugs.
+
+- The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+- The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the =
+client i get the following exception:
+"01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+
+I give you all my config files:
+
+ls.txt:
+
+Users =3D {
+};
+
+Shards =3D {
+ "172.16.2.11", "StartPosition"
+};
+
+
+ns.cfg:
+
+Host=3D"jlt";
+Port=3D50000;
+
+and client.cfg:
+// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+
+FullScreen =3D 0;
+Width =3D 800;
+Height =3D 600;
+Depth =3D 16;
+Position =3D { 1840.000000, -970.000000, -23.520323 };
+Heading =3D { -0.122154, 1.000000, 0.0 };
+Background =3D { 100, 100, 255 };
+DataPath =3D "data/";
+FontName =3D "n019003l.pfb";
+LanguageIndex =3D 0;
+LSHost =3D "172.16.2.11";
+Login =3D "jaylee";
+Password =3D "a";
+ShardIP =3D "172.16.2.11";
+CharacterIndex =3D 0;
+LandscapeTileNear =3D 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold =3D 0.001000;
+
+
+
+----- Original Message -----=20
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:19 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Server
+
+
+> >I have some problems launching the five services: log, login, moves, =
+naming
+> and time.
+> >I found nowhere some help about the functionnalities about each =
+service and
+> the order in which they start.
+> >Could you help me to launch correctly the services.
+>=20
+> first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:
+>=20
+> --------begin of ns.cfg-------
+> Host=3D"your nameservice ip";
+> Port=3D50000;
+> --------end of ns.cfg-------
+>=20
+> after, you launch, in order:
+> - naming                   <-- used to find a specific service by his =
+name
+> - log                         <-- centralized log for all service
+> - time                       <-- centralized time reference
+> - login                      <-- centralized user account for all =
+shard
+> - moves                   <-- a shard
+>=20
+> of course, some services will create some config file that you have to =
+fill.
+> you have to put in the ls.txt the moves service host ip like this:
+>=20
+> ----
+> Shards =3D {
+>  "your moves service host ip", "the name of the shard appears on the =
+client"
+> };
+> ----
+>=20
+> Vianney Lecroart
+>=20
+>=20
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks Vianney,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have now two bugs.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- The first one is when i launch the =
+moves service,=20
+it closes itself.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>- The second one (linked to the first =
+one i guess)=20
+is when i launch the client i get the following exception:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: =
+Exception:=20
+toto2"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I give you all my config =
+files:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>ls.txt:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Users =3D {</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>};</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Shards =3D {<BR>&nbsp;"172.16.2.11",=20
+"StartPosition"<BR>};<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>ns.cfg:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>Host=3D"jlt";<BR>Port=3D50000;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>and =
+client.cfg:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>// CLIENT CONFIG FILE
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>FullScreen =3D 0;<BR>Width =3D =
+800;<BR>Height =3D=20
+600;<BR>Depth =3D 16;<BR>Position =3D { 1840.000000, -970.000000, =
+-23.520323=20
+};<BR>Heading =3D { -0.122154, 1.000000, 0.0 };<BR>Background =3D { 100, =
+100, 255=20
+};<BR>DataPath =3D "data/";<BR>FontName =3D =
+"n019003l.pfb";<BR>LanguageIndex =3D=20
+0;<BR>LSHost =3D "172.16.2.11";<BR>Login =3D "jaylee";<BR>Password =3D =
+"a";<BR>ShardIP=20
+=3D "172.16.2.11";<BR>CharacterIndex =3D 0;<BR>LandscapeTileNear =3D=20
+50.000000;<BR>LandscapeThreshold =3D 0.001000;</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Vianney Lecroart" &lt;</FONT><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:lecroart@nevrax.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>lecroart@nevrax.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
+href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>nel@nevrax.org</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
+size=3D2>&gt;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:19=20
+PM</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: Re: [Nel] =
+Server</FONT></DIV></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>&gt; &gt;I have some problems launching the five services: log, =
+login,=20
+moves, naming<BR>&gt; and time.<BR>&gt; &gt;I found nowhere some help =
+about the=20
+functionnalities about each service and<BR>&gt; the order in which they=20
+start.<BR>&gt; &gt;Could you help me to launch correctly the =
+services.<BR>&gt;=20
+<BR>&gt; first, you have to create the ns.cfg file with:<BR>&gt; =
+<BR>&gt;=20
+--------begin of ns.cfg-------<BR>&gt; Host=3D"your nameservice =
+ip";<BR>&gt;=20
+Port=3D50000;<BR>&gt; --------end of ns.cfg-------<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
+after, you=20
+launch, in order:<BR>&gt; -=20
+naming&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
+nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- used to find a specific service by his name<BR>&gt; -=20
+log&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
+p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
+;=20
+&lt;-- centralized log for all service<BR>&gt; -=20
+time&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
+sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- centralized time reference<BR>&gt; -=20
+login&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
+bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- centralized user account for all shard<BR>&gt; -=20
+moves&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
+bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
+&lt;-- a shard<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; of course, some services will create =
+some config=20
+file that you have to fill.<BR>&gt; you have to put in the ls.txt the =
+moves=20
+service host ip like this:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----<BR>&gt; Shards =3D =
+{<BR>&gt;=20
+&nbsp;"your moves service host ip", "the name of the shard appears on =
+the=20
+client"<BR>&gt; };<BR>&gt; ----<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Vianney =
+Lecroart<BR>&gt;=20
+<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
+_______________________________________________<BR>&gt; Nel=20
+mailing list<BR>&gt; </FONT><A href=3D"mailto:Nel@nevrax.org"><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>Nel@nevrax.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; =
+</FONT><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel"><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</FONT></A><BR><FO=
+NT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; </FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0086_01C0817F.8334D000--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000136.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000136.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..44cc22ab --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000136.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] Server + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] Server

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:02:44 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Jerome,
+
+Thursday, January 18, 2001, 9:50:22 AM, you wrote:
+JL> - The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+
+You might have to use the host name of your
+computer instead of the IP number in ls.txt.
+
+Maybe you should also use the host name instead
+of the IP number in the LSHost parameter in the
+client.cfg
+
+JL> - The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the client i get the following exception:
+JL> "01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+
+This is probably because the client can't connect
+to the moves_service, that was not started...
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000137.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000137.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9ee0df93 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000137.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] Server + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] Server

+ Jerome Lanquetot + jerome.lanquetot@animaths.com
+ Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:18:23 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+The problem remains the same, the moves service closes itself. I use the
+host name of my machine, and it doesn't work. I think the best is to send us
+your two config files (ls.txt and ns.cfg) used for your server.
+
+Is there a log file or window to see what is wrong?
+
+thanks
+
+Jerome
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "robofly" <robofly@in-orbit.net>
+To: "Jerome Lanquetot" <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 8:02 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] Server
+
+
+> Hi Jerome,
+>
+> Thursday, January 18, 2001, 9:50:22 AM, you wrote:
+> JL> - The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+>
+> You might have to use the host name of your
+> computer instead of the IP number in ls.txt.
+>
+> Maybe you should also use the host name instead
+> of the IP number in the LSHost parameter in the
+> client.cfg
+>
+> JL> - The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch
+the client i get the following exception:
+> JL> "01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+>
+> This is probably because the client can't connect
+> to the moves_service, that was not started...
+>
+> Warm regards,
+> Róbert
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000138.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000138.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..971b9b00 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000138.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] Server + + + + + + +

[Nel] Server

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:21:48 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+please, could you stop to send your email in HTML format?
+it s not safe and not really cool to read them on text mail program. thank
+you.
+
+>I have now two bugs.
+>- The first one is when i launch the moves service, it closes itself.
+>- The second one (linked to the first one i guess) is when i launch the
+client i get the following exception:
+>"01/01/18 18:45:00 ERR client.cpp 2574: Exception: toto2"
+
+ok, if your moves serive is not launch, you *cant* connect your client, so
+the second problem
+is because of that. if your moves service closes itself, it s surely because
+the login service
+didn't authorized him to be an official shard. official shard are in ls.txt
+file (Shard variable) and
+for a strange reason, the ip you put on it isn t the same that the one who
+sent by the moves service.
+
+all services log informations in a file called logs.log, you should take a
+look on it.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000139.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000139.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1eb94da3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000139.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + Re[4]: [Nel] Server + + + + + + +

Re[4]: [Nel] Server

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:19:05 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Jerome,
+
+Friday, January 19, 2001, 12:18:23 AM, you wrote:
+JL> The problem remains the same, the moves service closes itself. I use the
+JL> host name of my machine, and it doesn't work. I think the best is to send us
+JL> your two config files (ls.txt and ns.cfg) used for your server.
+
+One hint: If you can, rename your computer
+to "pctest" and try running the servers.
+This is a default hostname in the NeL code.
+You should be able to override this with
+the ns.cfg file.
+
+Also I had some problems with DNS issues, the
+test computer I was using didn't have a
+legal host name that could be looked up,
+after I fixed that everything worked...
+
+Warm regards,
+Robert
+
+<<<<<ns.cfg>>>>>>
+Host="pctest";
+Port=50000;
+>>>>>ns.cfg<<<<<<
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000140.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000140.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ac4c6988 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000140.html @@ -0,0 +1,134 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling nel + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling nel

+ Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner + poet007@ifrance.com
+ Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:43:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+I just downloaded all necessary packages (I think so) to run
+nel software but it seems that a file is missing.
+While compiling the 3d lib,
+a "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h': No
+such file or directory"
+occurs.
+
+I'm trying to compile it using VC++ under win2000.
+I have downloaded STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having
+launched a "find file" command under windows, it seems that freetype.h isn't
+stored on my hard disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?
+
+Thanks in advance and may the force be with you :)
+
+Poet007.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>I just =
+downloaded=20
+all necessary packages (I think so) to run </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>nel =
+software but it=20
+seems that a file is missing.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>While =
+compiling the=20
+3d lib,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>a =
+"fatal error=20
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h': No such file or=20
+directory"</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001>occurs.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>I'm =
+trying to=20
+compile it using VC++ under win2000.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>I have =
+downloaded=20
+STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
+class=3D687323718-21012001>launched a "find=20
+file" command under windows, it seems that freetype.h =
+isn't</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>stored =
+on my hard=20
+disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D687323718-21012001>Thanks =
+in advance=20
+and may the force be with you :)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001>Poet007.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D687323718-21012001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C083E2.7CF82A60--
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000141.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000141.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6a073e62 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000141.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Sorry + + + + + + +

[Nel] Sorry

+ Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner + poet007@ifrance.com
+ Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:08:02 +0100 +

+
+ +
Sorry for having sent a MIME formated message :)
+I have just configured outlook to send pure text mails
+for later messages....
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000142.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000142.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8b471225 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000142.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Sorry again :) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Sorry again :)

+ Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner + poet007@ifrance.com
+ Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:33:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
I just posted a question before reading
+the documentation and other posted messages...
+I know now where to look for the freetype missing
+file :)
+But it just seems that the server is broken tonight...
+I will have a look at it tomorrow though...
+Sorry again guys !
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000143.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000143.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7ed6e1fc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000143.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Sorry again :) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Sorry again :)

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:29:46 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner:
+> But it just seems that the server is broken tonight...
+> I will have a look at it tomorrow though...
+> Sorry again guys !
+
+We had a powerdown during this week-end, and the server restarted, but
+for some odd reasons, you had about 80% or so packetloss on the network
+interface, and it was almost unreachable. We've fixed the missing files
+and restarted the server, which should be working "more or less" ok.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000144.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000144.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7e97d064 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000144.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] nel, snowballs and linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] nel, snowballs and linux

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:33:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
I have just commited on CVS the last fix for linux compilation of
+NeL and Snowballs.
+It should compile and link with no problem.
+You can run the executable but you must have accelerated opengl driver.
+If you want to do some feedback, bug fixes etc.. don t hesitate!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000145.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000145.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7ec334f1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000145.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit + + + + + + +

[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit

+ robofly + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:59:57 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I'm trying to compile tile_edit from the tools folder.  After
+uncompressing a jpeg source code library in the Pic subfolder
+I get the following compilation errors.  It the Pic/ stuff
+some kind of an standard image library, from somewhere?
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+ps. Here is the output from my compiler:
+
+--------------------Configuration: tile_edit_exe - Win32 Release--------------------
+Compiling...
+jchuff.c
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(271) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(273) : error C2085: 'emit_bits' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(273) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jchuff.c(311) : warning C4013: 'emit_bits' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+jcphuff.c
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(235) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(237) : error C2085: 'emit_bits' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(237) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(276) : warning C4013: 'emit_bits' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(288) : error C2054: expected '(' to follow 'inline'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(289) : error C2085: 'emit_symbol' : not in formal parameter list
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(289) : error C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '{'
+D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\jcphuff.c(333) : warning C4013: 'emit_symbol' undefined; assuming extern returning int
+Pic_BMP.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_BMP.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_JPG.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_JPG.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_Manage.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_Manage.c': No such file or directory
+PIC_System.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\PIC_System.c': No such file or directory
+Pic_TGA.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\Pic_TGA.c': No such file or directory
+Generating Code...
+Compiling...
+readpic.cpp
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'D:\code\tool\tile_edit\Pic\readpic.cpp': No such file or directory
+Generating Code...
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+tile_edit.exe - 15 error(s), 3 warning(s)
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000146.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000146.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..64617bc5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000146.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit + + + + + + +

[Nel] Problems compiling tile_edit

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:14:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+> I'm trying to compile tile_edit from the tools folder.  After
+> uncompressing a jpeg source code library in the Pic subfolder
+> I get the following compilation errors.
+
+You are right, the PIC folder was missing on the CVS in tool/tile_edit/PIC.
+That's ok now.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000147.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000147.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6d34bf94 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000147.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] mesa3D + + + + + + +

[Nel] mesa3D

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:39:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
Debian User wrote:
+> ...
+>   /* Header file version number, required by OpenGL ABI for Linux */
+> #define GL_GLEXT_VERSION 6
+>  
+> ???
+> You guys are not up to date! you are ahead of time :-)
+
+hehe, i checked the RedHat's rpm of Mesa and it include the last version
+glext.h (version 7) from SGI and not from Mesa (version 6) ... :-)
+
+I'm going to update the INSTALL file to put a note about it ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+PS: Sorry if it take a long time to answer your mail, i was in vavcation ...
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000148.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000148.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..caa97710 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000148.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb with glx version + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb with glx version

+ Vincent Caron + zerodeux@free.fr
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:48:51 +0100 +

+
+ +
I'm having the same trouble as Bernard Hugueney had. I'm using Debian Sid
+(unstable), and the nel/ configure script complains about OpenGL version
+being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 7). Debian packages the original XFree 4.0.2
+header files, XFree says 4.0.2 uses Mesa 3.4, and if you downloa Mesa 3.4 you'll
+see that GL_GLEXT_VERSION is set to 6.
+
+Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to 7,
+and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+
+I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for now,
+in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000149.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000149.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..04980da8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000149.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI + + + + + + +

[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI

+ Vincent Caron + zerodeux@free.fr
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:19:00 +0100 +

+
+ +
I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous structures
+(see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard feature,
+and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by others.
+Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth. I
+guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+structure ...
+
+In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+                 from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used to
+declare any objects
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+[...]
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000150.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000150.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..33859c6f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000150.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI + + + + + + +

[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:27:21 +0100 +

+
+ +
> I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous
+structures
+> (see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard
+feature,
+> and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by
+others.
+> Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth.
+I
+> guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+> I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+> structure ...
+>
+> In file included from driver_opengl.h:43,
+>                  from driver_opengl.cpp:45:
+> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:264: anonymous class type not used
+to
+> declare any objects
+> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h: In method `void
+> NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::setDefault()':
+> ../../../../include/nel/3d/material.h:273: `union
+> NL3D::CMaterial::CTexEnv::{anonymous}' has no member named `OpRGB'
+
+Yes, we know that. In fact, it compiles with no warning with gcc 2.96.
+If you could give me a link to a document that say it s not ANSI, i ll be
+glad.
+
+Regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000151.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000151.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..54af555c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000151.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb with glx version + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb with glx version

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:28:04 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vincent Caron wrote:
+> 
+> Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to 7,
+> and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+> cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+
+Nop, but you are quite close : RedHat 7.0 :-)
+
+> I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for now,
+> in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+
+The problem is that we are going, in a very short time, to use recent
+extensions present only in the version 7 of glext.h. So it migth be useless
+to change it now and change it agin soon ...
+
+Anyway, i'm going to put a note about the glext.h version and where to find it
+in nel's INSTALL file.
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000152.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000152.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..08b98514 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000152.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb with glx version + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb with glx version

+ Lionel Berenguier + berenguier@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:32:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
> I'm having the same trouble as Bernard Hugueney had. I'm using Debian Sid
+> (unstable), and the nel/ configure script complains about OpenGL version
+> being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 7). Debian packages the original XFree
+4.0.2
+> header files, XFree says 4.0.2 uses Mesa 3.4, and if you downloa Mesa 3.4
+you'll
+> see that GL_GLEXT_VERSION is set to 6.
+>
+> Since the latest version from SGI's OpenGL sample implementation is set to
+7,
+> and Mesa's CVS stick to that 6, I guess Nevrax developpers use somewhat
+> cstomized RPMs (let me guess ... Mandrake ? :))
+
+No.
+
+"glext.h" is NOT linked to any linux distribution/version. His purpose is to
+declare all the possible extensions of any graphic hardware. For that
+reason, SGI handles the "official" glext.h, which you can retrieve from:
+
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+> > I suggest that the configure script should be relying on version 6 for
+now,
+> in order we claim what's really implemented by XFree 4.0.2.
+
+For now, we do not really use the version 7 of the header, but this will
+come soon (for fututre new extensions such as NV20 ones), so the only thing
+you must do, is to get and replace the glext.h.
+
+
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000153.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000153.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..33c0838a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000153.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb with glx version + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb with glx version

+ Vincent Caron + zerodeux@free.fr
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:34:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
Lionel Berenguier wrote:
+> 
+> For now, we do not really use the version 7 of the header, but this will
+> come soon (for fututre new extensions such as NV20 ones), so the only thing
+> you must do, is to get and replace the glext.h.
+
+All right, I read SGI's recommendations. I'll suggest Debian to upgrade their
+glext.h then.
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000154.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000154.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..06f5b5fa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000154.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb with glx version + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb with glx version

+ elijah wright + elw@stderr.org
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:57:23 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
> > being too old (GL_GLEXT_VERSION < 7). Debian packages the original XFree
+> 4.0.2
+> 
+> "glext.h" is NOT linked to any linux distribution/version. His purpose is to
+> declare all the possible extensions of any graphic hardware. For that
+> reason, SGI handles the "official" glext.h, which you can retrieve from:
+> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+if in fact this is true (i'll take your word for it) someone should
+probably make a .deb that downloads and installs the newer glext.h.  it'll
+take some trickery to get the overrrides and alternatives right, but
+nothing that can't be done.  it'll have to cooperate with mesa and xfree
+maintainers, too- even less fun.  maybe xfree and mesa developers will
+upgrade their version of the file soon?
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000155.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000155.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e9e24f9a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000155.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI + + + + + + +

[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI

+ Lionel Berenguier + berenguier@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:02:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
> I'm using gcc/g++ 2.95.3, and it seems that it doesn't like anonymous
+structures
+> (see gcc output below). I read that it's definitively not a standard
+feature,
+> and was orginally a MS VC++ extension, that was more or less adopted by
+others.
+> Seems that the gcc guy didn't approved it, but I didn't checked in depth.
+I
+> guess others are using the egcs c++ (1.1.2) frontend ?
+> I personnaly don't approve being able to acces a member without naming the
+> structure ...
+
+You're right.  Fixed... :o)
+
+regards
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000156.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000156.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..61be79dd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000156.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] gcc and non-ANSI + + + + + + +

[Nel] gcc and non-ANSI

+ Vincent Caron + zerodeux@free.fr
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:08:50 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> Yes, we know that. In fact, it compiles with no warning with gcc 2.96.
+> If you could give me a link to a document that say it s not ANSI, i ll be
+> glad.
+
+I only happend to find a two years old mail from a mingw32 developer :
+  http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/1998-11/msg00729.html
+
+I guess the correct answer would be to read carefully the C++ ANSI draft,
+but it's boooorring :)
+  http://www.cygnus.com/misc/wp/dec96pub/
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000157.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000157.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..55814ca0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000157.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling nel + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling nel

+ david.belius@chello.se + david.belius@chello.se
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:13:38 +0100 +

+
+ +
Freetype is a library. www.freetype.org.
+
+Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner wrote:
+
+> I just downloaded all necessary packages (I think so) to run
+> 
+> nel software but it seems that a file is missing.
+> 
+> While compiling the 3d lib,
+> 
+> a "fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/freetype.h':
+> No such file or directory"
+> 
+> occurs.
+> 
+>  
+> 
+> I'm trying to compile it using VC++ under win2000.
+> 
+> I have downloaded STLPort and configured VC++ to use it. After having
+> 
+> launched a "find file" command under windows, it seems that freetype.h isn't
+> 
+> stored on my hard disk. Could you add it in the CVS tree please ?
+> 
+>  
+> 
+> Thanks in advance and may the force be with you :)
+> 
+>  
+> 
+> Poet007.
+> 
+>  
+> 
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000158.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000158.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ac886fab --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000158.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out + + + + + + +

[Nel] Announce: NeL 0.1 is officially out

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:26:13 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi David,
+
+David Mentre wrote:
+> 
+> It is maybe not your job, but if people are unable to start, they will
+> never give you a feedback (code, bugs, ...).
+
+I'm one of the guys who was at the origin of that decision.
+
+It's not a problem about our job or not, it's more about the fact
+that you will never get from us a better support on these libraries
+installation that you could get from the guys who are working
+on them ... even if i know that it is pretty troublesome to look
+for informations on several place about several libraries just to
+install NeL :-)
+
+And if their installation instructions aren't up to date or incomplete,
+that's will be nice to contact them to fix that. I'm sure that a lot a
+people (mainly user as you are, but not necessarily NeL users :-) will
+appreciate the help ... as we will ;-)
+
+Anyway, we are going to write a small document explaining the basic
+installation instructions for these libraries, but you should not
+rely on that document to resolve all your installation problems.
+
+In case of troubles, you should look carefully at the README,
+the INSTALL files, and on the the files placed in the directory named
+doc(s) in the librarie file source tree, and do not forget there web
+sites, mailling lists, etc ... ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000159.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000159.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf0ffbbc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000159.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling NeL + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling NeL

+ Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner + poet007@ifrance.com
+ Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:34:14 +0100 +

+
+ +
>Message: 9
+>Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:13:38 +0100
+>From: david.belius@chello.se
+>To: nel@nevrax.org
+>Subject: Re: [Nel] Compiling nel
+>Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+
+>Freetype is a library. www.freetype.org.
+
+It seems that the adress above is not valid
+anymore. But the freetype lib is still available
+at the adress below :
+
+http://freetype.sourceforge.net/
+
+Poet007
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000160.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000160.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..482f54a8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/000160.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling NeL + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling NeL

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:41:07 +0100 +

+
+ +
Poet007 - Da BondGirl Partner wrote:
+> 
+> It seems that the adress above is not valid
+> anymore.
+
+Thei server is still running, it's just that there web server is down :-(
+
+It migth be fix soon ... i hope :-)
+
+> But the freetype lib is still available at the adress below :
+> 
+> http://freetype.sourceforge.net/
+
+Do not forget to not choose the European mirror but the USA one ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d871f3d1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-January Archive by Author + + + +

2001-January Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 3 10:56:19 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Messages: 74

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aa2ba937 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-January Archive by Date + + + +

2001-January Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 3 10:56:19 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Messages: 74

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f27ccf33 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,253 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-January Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-January Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 3 10:56:19 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Messages: 74

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..76a38635 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-January Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-January Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 3 10:56:19 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Messages: 74

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-January/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f27ccf33 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-January/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,253 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-January Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-January Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 3 10:56:19 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Messages: 74

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 25 09:41:07 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 25 10:42:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000454.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000454.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cc5df787 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000454.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:10:44 -0700 +

+
+ +
6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, x5101920@fedro.ugr.es wrote:
+
+>
+>Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>:
+>
+>> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of
+>> nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service,
+>> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why
+>> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider
+>> scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification
+>> language in 
+>> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at
+>> all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding
+>> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite
+>> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+>> we release the server side code?
+>
+>I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+>hard working on such a good project.
+>
+We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source.
+
+>IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+>and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+>
+if it works out to seperate our rules in an external data format- because that really is what heaps and heaps of content specific rules are, then we might well release our server code (and we will of course release any changes we make to the basic services), but though ianal, I'm quite sure on the point of not being required to release internal software that makes 
+use of gpl'ed code and I really don't believe that even mr stallman would object given the situation- its quite a step for a game company to share source at all and it has been no small hinderance in our search for funding, nevertheless we've stuck by the gpl.
+
+michael warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000455.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000455.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..19c82260 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000455.html @@ -0,0 +1,166 @@ + + + + [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:23:32 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
> I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one 
+> of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century .
+
+Well, there is stupid people that laugh at important things. 
+Idiots things everything is a joke. :-/
+ 
+> Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is
+> concerned, 
+> and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software
+> is 
+> the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the
+> ever 
+> coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+> those which don't provide source code .
+
+You didn't understand it...
+GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, 
+modify and resuse it under the GPL License.
+
+> That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for
+> individuals :
+> releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get
+> insights 
+> about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source
+> providers .
+
+No, because all the code is under the GPL.
+If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you 
+want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not.
+ 
+> Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to
+> understand
+> the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+> So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor
+> entities
+> - as far as software production is concerned - 
+> I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global
+> leverage tendance .
+
+You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+project as mine is without GPL.
+
+GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+ 
+> Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable
+> company 
+> protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note
+> that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+> Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism
+> died 
+> out of realism ?
+
+GPL is not about companies, but about users.
+GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work.
+
+I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+1) It make faster the development.
+2) The user base is also developers base
+3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+
+Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+
+ 
+> Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+> methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever
+> thought 
+> that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable
+> way of 
+> thinking and only fools rush in .
+
+Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+If you say... "Mine is the best wine of the world", just tell me how you did, 
+and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better.
+And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to 
+create an even better one. 
+That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand.
+
+> I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the
+> GPL concept ,
+> (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) ,
+> but
+> since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL
+> detractors .
+> Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+
+Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more 
+secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to 
+forbid people to copy and share apps.
+ 
+> I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+> but I don't think it will happen .
+
+GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions.
+ 
+> Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't
+> be there if not)
+
+You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+ethics.
+
+REgards,
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000456.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000456.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2de2428a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000456.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ Debian User + bernard@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:32:23 +0200 +

+
+ +
* Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net> [010701 09:48]:
+> 6/30/2001 3:51:13 PM, x5101920@fedro.ugr.es wrote:
+> 
+> >
+> >Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>:
+> >
+
+> >> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+> >> we release the server side code?
+> >
+> >I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+> >hard working on such a good project.
+> >
+> We're quite grateful to them- we've even had them over to our place in san francisco, but it just so happens that they are also at work on a lot of nel based code that they have not released- and they are by no means required to- it is only in the event of distributing binaries that you must distribute source.
+> 
+> >IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+> >and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+> >
+
+
+My understanding of the GPL is that your do not have to give source code
+if you do not "give" binary. This is a concern to Mr Stallman because
+of the comming Application Services Providers (or that kind of Three Letters
+ Acronym). This should be fixed with the upcoming v 3 of the GPL.
+
+Neither Am I A L., but for the rules parts, my 2 euros :
+the reverse engineering part is not that relevent because you could
+apply to any computer prog. I know that people fitted archmage models in
+matlab, but with LARGE rule sets, I don't think it's realistic.
+I think it could be possible to use propritery code with GPL code 
+using a LGLP 'hook' layer. But I'm not sure...
+
+To be on thesafe side, GPL and non-GPL code should not be in the same 
+adress-space (ie CORBA).You have to pay an efficiency penalty to keep your code
+non-GPL and that's the intended behaviour IMHO.
+
+For thoses who think GPL is worthless ("a joke") because you can steal / use
+the code anyway, I think you are missing the point. What matter is not the
+software (state of CVS at time t), but the ongoing project. That's why
+there are VERY few forks on GPL land. Use the code and it's ok, the project
+is working for you. Take the code, change it, and then YOU have to handle
+all the evolution, or keep track of changes (what if they are not compatible
+with yours ?). You can certainly catch-up very easly with a GPL project, and
+it's R&D is available for everyone to use (great karma IMHO), but the
+power of the successful GPL project is not in the code, but in the community
+behind it. (Of course, both are linked, hard to attract people with ugly code)
+
+I really hope that NeL will build such a dedicated and helpful community.
+(Code quality is there IMHO, for network design etc, I'not qualified...)
+
+Bernard
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000458.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000458.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..25246f56 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000458.html @@ -0,0 +1,179 @@ + + + + [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns

+ elijah wright + elw@stderr.org
+ Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:57:10 -0400 (EDT) +

+
+ +
+could the GPL bigots and zealots please find something else to do with
+their time?  you're wasting a lot of energy on something that is
+well-understood and needs very little additional explanation.
+
+elijah
+
+
+> > Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is
+> > concerned, 
+> > and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software
+> > is 
+> > the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the
+> > ever 
+> > coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+> > those which don't provide source code .
+> 
+> You didn't understand it...
+> GPL is not about reading others code... but giving you the freedom to copy, 
+> modify and resuse it under the GPL License.
+> 
+> > That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for
+> > individuals :
+> > releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get
+> > insights 
+> > about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source
+> > providers .
+> 
+> No, because all the code is under the GPL.
+> If you read it, and code it on your way, then you could set whatever license you 
+> want... it is up to your ethical being to say if you use GPL or not.
+>  
+> > Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to
+> > understand
+> > the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+> > So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor
+> > entities
+> > - as far as software production is concerned - 
+> > I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global
+> > leverage tendance .
+> 
+> You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+> great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+> project as mine is without GPL.
+> 
+> GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+> get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+>  
+> > Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable
+> > company 
+> > protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note
+> > that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+> > Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism
+> > died 
+> > out of realism ?
+> 
+> GPL is not about companies, but about users.
+> GPL means to refuse to a lot of rights so that your users can share your work.
+> 
+> I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+> 1) It make faster the development.
+> 2) The user base is also developers base
+> 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+> 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+> 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+> 
+> Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+> 
+>  
+> > Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+> > methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever
+> > thought 
+> > that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable
+> > way of 
+> > thinking and only fools rush in .
+> 
+> Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+> If you say... "Mine is the best wine of the world", just tell me how you did, 
+> and I will do one better. What we have? A wine that is better than the better.
+> And as my way is not secret and open and free to use, someone will use it to 
+> create an even better one. 
+> That is what GPL is about, only fools don't understand.
+> 
+> > I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the
+> > GPL concept ,
+> > (I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) ,
+> > but
+> > since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL
+> > detractors .
+> > Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+> 
+> Yes, Your world will die, because a new one will appear where there is no more 
+> secrets, where you won't be able to sell ideas, where you won't be allowed to 
+> forbid people to copy and share apps.
+>  
+> > I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+> > but I don't think it will happen .
+> 
+> GPL people is different. We tollerate different opinions.
+>  
+> > Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't
+> > be there if not)
+> 
+> You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+> ethics.
+> 
+> REgards,
+> 
+>                   Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+> 
+> nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+> Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+>  
+>                     -- Echelon must die --
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+-- 
+
+
+--
+$ chown us:us yourbase -R
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..90326e72 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000459.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ + + + + [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns

+ stephane.craux@voila.fr + stephane.craux@voila.fr
+ Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:01:45 +0200 +

+
+ +
> > You are totally wrong... GPL allow us the common user to join and build a big, 
+> > great product. From my personal experience, I could have never build such 
+> > project as mine is without GPL.
+Ah , so u are the grat man , it will be a primer !
+
+> > GPL promote talents as everyone learn fasters, so yes it do a leverage, but you 
+> > get a better level that those close source fanatic. :-/
+agreed
+
+> > I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+> > 1) It make faster the development.
+did u get it right ?????
+> > 2) The user base is also developers base
+sure ?
+> > 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+proved ?
+> > 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+yes , but is it that much important ?
+> > 5) Personal Challenge ( 1st commercial GPL game )
+mmm
+> > Why in the hell people thing that Communism, Jew or Gay are bad things???
+what kind of mix are trying to involve here ?
+> > Man... you have serious problems with your ethics.
+you are in real rouble with ur mind , but I'm quiet confident 
+u may still evolve , i hope that , be sure of it :)
+> > You are really inside... you should go back to school and learn something about 
+> > ethics.
+I learned I school that u have always more to learn , did u miss that point ?
+no time loosed , quiet easy answers , regards for comin' into it
+
+Stephane
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+http://mail.voila.fr
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ef4ab980 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000460.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns

+ Yann Morvan + ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu
+ Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:08:10 -0400 +

+
+ +
Man man, what have I started ? :)
+I suggest we stop bugging the other
+members of this mailing list with ideological
+discussions that should take place elsewhere.
+After all, my question was answered and the answer was that
+there finally was no problem with having one's rules code public.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..577ed135 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000461.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] [Flame][Offtopic] Congratulations + concerns

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:07:57 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
I repeat... I am not part of Nevrax. Just a fellow developer that is following 
+this guys great work.
+
+> > > I suppose that Nevrax is using GPL because:
+> > > 1) It make faster the development.
+> did u get it right ?????
+
+GPL shorts develpoment time as the amount of code that can be reused is 
+infinite.
+
+> > > 2) The user base is also developers base
+> sure ?
+
+Sure. Start yourself a GPL project and you will see.
+
+> > > 3) The open architecture means bugs are found faster and easier.
+> proved ?
+
+Ask GPG guys ;-)
+
+> > > 4) Port to other OS are almost automatic.
+> yes , but is it that much important ?
+
+Well, if you run Windows perhaps not... but what about a MacOS user or a Linux 
+PPC user?
+
+Regards,
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+ 
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000462.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000462.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c229912a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000462.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs building problem

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:10:47 +0200 +

+
+ +
The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+September for a working version of Snowballs.
+That's due to the fact that people at Nevrax rewrote lots of code since the
+last release of Snowballs.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Yann Morvan" <ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:34 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+> I've managed to build nel correctly, but
+> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes
+> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/
+> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole
+> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out
+> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ?
+> Thanks in advance,
+>
+> Yann
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000463.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000463.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fb0b7777 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000463.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] culling and transforms + + + + + + +

[Nel] culling and transforms

+ Lionel Berenguier + berenguier@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:14:03 +0200 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: <stephane.craux@voila.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:21 PM
+Subject: [Nel] culling and transforms
+
+
+> Hi ,
+> I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and
+> noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing
+> the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the
+> view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly :
+
+Is it not nearly the same?
+
+transform the planes:  transform 6 planes => 6*16= 96 muls.
+transform the AABB:  transform 8 vectors => 8*12= 96 muls.
+
+But maybe your trick to transform an AABB is to just transform the center
+(12), then transform the 3 half vectors of the AABB (3*3 because of their
+axis form), and then just do some add ?  (ooops :) )
+
+regards
+
+Lionel.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..60495ea1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000464.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] A bit of news + + + + + + +

[Nel] A bit of news

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:32:23 +0200 +

+
+ +
The following news will appear on the sight later today.
+
+Regards to all.
+Daniel
+
+
+PARTICLE SYSTEM
+First release of the particle system editor with full access to the
+particule system engine is out (it's an extension to the object viewer).
+
+ENVIRONMENT MAPPING
+Flat and cubic environment map rendering have been added to the 3D engine
+and the tools.
+
+AUDIO LIBRARY
+The lowest level layer of the sound library is functional (the sound library
+is still in very early stage of development)
+
+SERVICE ADMIN IMPROVEMENTS
+Loads of new features added to the Win32 displayer
+- window positions can be stored in the config file
+- displayer window now has a prompt to allow live interaction with running
+services (Note: The same commands can be sent to the services by the admin
+client)
+
+LIGHT MAPS
+Version 1.0 of the lightmap implementation is fully implemented and
+available
+
+COLLISIONS
+Version 1.0 of the PACS collision code fully implemented and available
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0eb060fd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000465.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ Dave Turner + novalis@novalis.org
+ Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:05:00 -0400 +

+
+ +
elijah wright wrote:
+> 
+> > You are totally wrong...
+> > Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+> >
+> > What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+> > So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+> 
+> incorrect.  you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed
+> libraries.  library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do
+> not constitute "extending" GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as
+> it is intended to be used.
+> 
+> LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team
+> could countenance dual-licensing any such "rules API" and releasing
+> parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses.
+> 
+
+1.  Do not use the term commercial when you mean proprietary. 
+Proprietary is the opposite of Free as in Freedom.
+
+2.  The exception to the GPL refers only to system libraries.
+
+See this for details:
+http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html#MoneyGuzzlerInc
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the
+street or get a phone call and you'll be there.  We miss you, Pug.
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7f8245a3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000466.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + [Nel] Game Rules + + + + + + +

[Nel] Game Rules

+ Dave Turner + novalis@novalis.org
+ Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:42:42 -0400 +

+
+ +
x5101920@fedro.ugr.es wrote:
+> 
+> Mensaje citado por: John Cosby <jcosby@gscyclone.com>:
+> 
+> > I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+> >
+> > In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of
+> > a
+> > game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+> > etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define
+> > gameplay
+> > cannot.
+> 
+> I am not a lawer... But you say "the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted."
+> Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k?
+> So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic,
+> they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :)
+> 
+> I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you
+> can copy right D&D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy
+> right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :)
+> 
+> Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to
+> patent it to. :-(
+
+You can patent a game rule set:
+
+http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='5,641,166'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,641,166&RS=PN/5,641,166
+http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1='board+game'&OS="board+game"&RS="board+game"
+
+You can also copyright the precise look of a critical hit table, and the
+wording of the hits, and the arrangement of them, but not the
+information therein. If the arrangement is the only logical one or
+otherwise doesn't involve creativity, then it is not copyrightable (see
+ALEXANDRIA DRAFTING CO V. FRANKLIN MAPS at
+http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/97D0773P.HTM).
+
+In short, creative stuff (even slightly creative) is copyrightable. 
+Processes, etc. are patentable.  So, the code to implement critical hits
+is copyrightable, but if someone reverse engineers and reimplements it,
+the author has no recourse.
+
+
+Disclaimer: IANAL.  But I know more about copyright, patent, and
+trademark law than both of my parents put together.  And they are
+lawyers :)
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+Every day I dream that I'll log on to the channel or walk down the
+street or get a phone call and you'll be there.  We miss you, Pug.
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f9b17c75 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000467.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs building problem

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:20:56 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi Yann,
+
+Nel changeds a lot since we wrote Snowballs. If you want compile it, you should
+compile the NeL source code provided with the Snowballs source code on
+nevrax.org :
+
+   http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_1.zip
+or
+   http://nevrax.org/download/snowballs_src_0_2.tar.gz
+
+Have fun :-)
+
+
+Yann Morvan wrote:
+> I've managed to build nel correctly, but
+> client.cpp in snowballs/client/src/ includes
+> msg_socket.h and local_area.h from nel/net/
+> and those files are nowhere to be found in the whole
+> code tree. I've tried to comment the includes out
+> but they are indeed needed. Can anybody help ?
+> Thanks in advance,
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9f668c18 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000468.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs building problem

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:04:57 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+> September for a working version of Snowballs.
+
+In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the end
+of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-)
+
+I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs should
+look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do my
+best in that way :-)
+
+It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with several
+services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the
+server structur will show how we design NeL to be used.
+
+Have fun ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1092566d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000469.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs building problem

+ Yann Morvan + ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu
+ Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:04:32 -0400 +

+
+ +
That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs.
+The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism
+used by the server to identify a player's action and call the
+matching piece of code, and how to define those "pieces of code".
+I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it,
+but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find,
+don't hesitate to tell me about it.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..74ca6758 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000470.html @@ -0,0 +1,129 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs building problem

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:51:48 +0200 +

+
+ +
Your best bet for now is to look at the layer 4 code sample
+(http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/net_layer4)
+
+In this example the 'client' sends messages to the 'frontend', the
+'frontend' treats these messages and sends them to the 'ping service'. The
+'ping service' receives messages from the 'frontend', treats them and sends
+back new messages. The 'frontend' receives messages from the 'server',
+treats them and dispatches new messages to the 'client'...
+
+The following chunks of code in the 'frontend' is the key. You can extend
+the callback arrays to include messages for all the actions that the player
+can send to the shard:
+
+
+/*
+ * Callback array for messages received from a client
+ */
+TCallbackItem CallbackArray[] =
+{
+        { "PING", cbPing }        // when receiving a "PING" message, call
+cbPing()
+};
+
+
+/*
+ * Callback array for message received from the ping service
+ */
+TCallbackItem PingServiceCallbackArray[] =
+{
+        { "PONG", cbPong }        // when receiving a "PONG" message, call
+cbPong()
+};
+
+
+
+Snowballs, being based on an older version of NeL, is far less clean - the
+callback table contains a mixture of admin messages (such as "C" and "D"),
+and game messages (such as "PAN" and "SHO"). Otherwise the principles are
+the same.
+
+// Callback array as a server
+TCallbackItem CallbackArray [] =
+{
+        { "ES", cbServerProcessEntityState },
+        //{ "BT", cbSpawnBot },
+        { "C", cbConnect },
+        { "D", cbDisconnect },
+        //{ "RST", cbResetServer },
+        { "NAM", cbAssignName },
+        { "PAN", cbPan },
+        { "SHO", cbShoot },
+        { "RMW", cbProcessRemoveWeapon },
+        { "AUT", cbWelcome },
+        { "DUMP", cbDumpState },
+        { "CHAT", cbChat },
+        { "PING", cbPing },
+        { "PONG", cbPong }
+        //{ "ACC", cbGiveAccess } // this is for the test client. Remove it
+for a real use or any client can connect with any password !
+};
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Yann Morvan
+Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 8:05 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+That was exactly why I wanted to have a look at Snowballs.
+The point I was particularly interested in was the mecanism
+used by the server to identify a player's action and call the
+matching piece of code, and how to define those "pieces of code".
+I've compiled the documentation, so I'll just have to look at it,
+but if you can think of informations I may have troubles to find,
+don't hesitate to tell me about it.
+
+	Yann
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..70ede038 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000471.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs building problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs building problem

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:29:44 +0200 +

+
+ +
Go Cedric, go! We're all with you :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 7:04 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowballs building problem
+
+
+>
+> Hi,
+>
+> Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> > The Snowballs code is outdated. You've got to wait till something like
+> > September for a working version of Snowballs.
+>
+> In fact, the new Snowballs, which is under work, should be done for the
+end
+> of this month, i'm actually working on it ;-)
+>
+> I'm putting a lot of comments to explain how to use NeL, so Snowballs
+should
+> look like to some kind of NeL tutorial ... at least i'm going to try to do
+my
+> best in that way :-)
+>
+> It will be done in 2 mains part : the client and the shard side (with
+several
+> services like a Frontend, a Chat service, a Score service, etc ...) so the
+> server structur will show how we design NeL to be used.
+>
+> Have fun ...
+>
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..97f0fa6c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000473.html @@ -0,0 +1,115 @@ + + + + [Nel] Italian NeL community + + + + + + +

[Nel] Italian NeL community

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:15:42 +0200 +

+
+ +
Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+This message is mainly intended for the head people at Nevrax.=20
+
+I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com for italian =
+people using NeL.
+This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new =
+section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of =
+code and the like.=20
+
+Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in =
+supporting this initiative?
+Other people's thoughts about this are welcome.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This message is mainly intended for the =
+head people=20
+at Nevrax. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am thinking about opening a new =
+section on=20
+hateseed.com for italian people using NeL.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This means that I'd open a new forum =
+for=20
+NeL-related talkings and a new section with NeL related material like =
+downloads,=20
+tutorials, snippets of code and the like. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you think this would be usefull? =
+Would you be=20
+interested in supporting this initiative?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Other people's thoughts about this are=20
+welcome.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(<A href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)</FONT><=
+/DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_064C_01C10472.481B5C20--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8e440846 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000474.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL + + + + + + +

[Nel] Copyright, Patents and the GPL

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:10:14 +0200 +

+
+ +
Wow, I'm out of town for three days and I miss all the fun ! :)
+Anyway, here goes my 0.02$.
+
+About the "game rules" issue:
+John and Dave pretty much hit the nail on the head, so I won't go into an 
+extended rant. I'll only add that although you could probably (as Dave 
+mentionned) patent your rules *in the US*, it would most certainly be a bad 
+idea as it is very expensive and time consuming to fill such a patent and 
+numerous countries will not recognize it anyway.
+Keep in mind that software and business method patents are highly 
+objectionable in the first place. You can read more about this subject here:
+http://www.freepatents.org/
+and here:
+http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/against-software-patents.html
+
+European citizens should also consider signing the petition against 
+software patents:
+http://petition.eurolinux.org/index.html?LANG=en
+
+As for the Pro/Anti GPL debate:
+Stephane Craux, I'm afraid you are *completely* missing the point of Free 
+Software. If you are genuinely interested in learning about it and 
+understanding what it stands for, I strongly suggest you spend some time 
+reading the texts on the GNU project's "philosophy" page:
+http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/
+But I suspect you're only trolling... :(
+
+Finally, for those who still have questions about NeL's license, don't 
+forget: the GPL FAQ is your friend !
+http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl-faq.html
+
+Hope this helps !
+
+O.
+
+
+
+
+
+-- Nevrax --
+Olivier Lejade
+CEO and co-founder
+www.nevrax.com
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fc1de228 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000475.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] Italian NeL community + + + + + + +

[Nel] Italian NeL community

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 04 Jul 2001 15:43:12 +0200 +

+
+ +
At 10:15 AM 7/4/01 +0200, you wrote:
+>I am thinking about opening a new section on hateseed.com
+
+Nice site.
+It's a pity my Italian is so lousy: it seems interesting too.
+
+>This means that I'd open a new forum for NeL-related talkings and a new 
+>section with NeL related material like downloads, tutorials, snippets of 
+>code and the like.
+>Do you think this would be usefull? Would you be interested in supporting 
+>this initiative?
+
+Well to be honest, I have no idea if it would be useful...
+But if *you* think some Italian-only speaking people would be interested, 
+then sure: go for it ! :)
+And if you go so far as to translate some NeL docs and stuff, I'm sure Yan 
+would be happy to make some space for them on the official NeL website.
+Here at Nevrax, we're focusing on an international, english speaking 
+community, but it would be cool to have localized forums elsewhere.
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..040243a3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000476.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ + + + + [Nel] GPL & Nevrax + + + + + + +

[Nel] GPL & Nevrax

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 04 Jul 2001 16:01:52 +0200 +

+
+ +
BTW, we put it on the website but we forgot to tell you guys. We formed an 
+advisory board for Nevrax:
+http://nevrax.com/press/board.php
+and Richard Stallman agreed to be on the board (a premiere AFAIK).
+He serves as our moral authority regarding Free Software, so I guess that 
+we can safely say we are pretty well advised as far as the GPL is 
+concerned... ;)
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bba93532 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000478.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Yann Morvan + ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 16:59:27 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
I've read the thread on MUD-Dev and some people here,
+who seem to be quite experienced, say that TCP is not a
+good choice for client/server communication when there are
+many users and with real time constraints and it seems reasonable
+since TCP implements re-emit mecanisms which are irrelevent
+if the resent data doesn't matter anymore. They
+say that UDP is a better choice, though EA and AC designed their own
+layer. I am not a network expert but I think it would be wise to ponder
+things thoroughly on that point, but I realize that designing one's own
+layer (even using UDP as a starting point) is probably quite a hard task.
+
+	Yann 
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000479.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000479.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b8a279c5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000479.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:00:13 +0200 +

+
+ +
Sorry, I'm not the network guru at all, so may be it looks childish ...
+I think you should implement  minimum error checking protocol -
+1. Client sends UDP data to the server
+2. Client wait for confirmation from other end what data was received (use some
+UID for packets to send back as confirmation)
+3. If some timeout expired without confirmation, then client resends its data again
+
+Thursday, July 05, 2001, 4:36:47 PM, you wrote:
+
+VL> Hi everybody!
+
+VL> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+
+VL> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+VL> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+VL> thought and discuss about this.
+
+VL> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+VL> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+VL> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+VL> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+
+VL> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems
+VL> here:
+VL> https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php
+
+VL> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+VL> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+VL> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+
+VL> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+VL> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+VL> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+
+VL> Vianney Lecroart
+VL> ---
+VL> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+VL> icq#: 6870415
+VL> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+VL> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+VL> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+VL> _______________________________________________
+VL> Nel mailing list
+VL> Nel@nevrax.org
+VL> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000480.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000480.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f1190c50 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000480.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Thu, 05 Jul 2001 17:00:15 +0200 +

+
+ +
> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+
+You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP.
+If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea.
+
+in "effective TCP/IP Programming" Jon C. Snader says
+in
+Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP
+Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP
+
+Ok, i'm not very useful in this conversation but
+i'm not (yet :)) a network guru ....
+
+I'm interest by answer from other people.
+
+> 
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+> 
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000481.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000481.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0f12b7dd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000481.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:02:54 +0200 +

+
+ +
You already know my position :)
+
+UDP for everything except datas that should get through reliably and that
+aren't making a great impact on gaming speed, like chat, which should be
+reliable (i don't really want to lose pieces of discussion throughout the
+net) but that it's not critical to be delivered without lag.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 4:36 PM
+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+
+
+> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+>
+> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+> thought and discuss about this.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000482.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000482.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0f399186 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000482.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Dave Turner + novalis@novalis.org
+ Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:14:47 -0400 +

+
+ +
Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> Hi everybody!
+> 
+> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+> 
+> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+> thought and discuss about this.
+> 
+> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+> 
+> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these problems
+> here:
+> https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php
+> 
+> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+> 
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+> 
+> Vianney Lecroart
+
+There's often a lot of lag at the beginning of a UDP "connection" (yes,
+I know UDP doesn't have those).  Then gateways, which consider UDP to
+have higher priority, remember that there's a connection, and things
+start going faster.  Your tests should be written with this in mind.  
+
+You might also want to look into XUDP, 
+http://www.gweep.net/~rocko/XUDP_Paper/paper.html
+
+
+-- 
+-[Dave Turner                              Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859]
+---------------------------------------------------------------------
+"I would say our forefathers would have been ashamed, but they were 
+slave owners." - Slashdot Anonymous Coward.  Bring Pug back!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000483.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000483.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5189b33f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000483.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:45:39 +0200 +

+
+ +
Just facts:
+We  run  relatively large chat server with our own server software. We
+use  TCP  for all communications between Java clients and server-side.
+At  peak-load  time we have 2000 opened TCP-sockets at once. Profiling
+shows  up  what most of CPU time server performs write().
+And finally SW and HW - we use SunOS 5.7 aka Solaris7
+Our homemade software written in C++ utilize 2,5 CPU out of 4 in our
+Sun Enterprise Server 450 with 4 CPU and 1G RAM
+May  be  someone  have  the  similar  service on UDP and can share his
+statistic ?
+
+--
+Dim Segebart
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000484.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000484.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bbe419dc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000484.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 17:50:31 +0200 +

+
+ +
According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> > As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> > but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> > more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+> 
+> You mean you are thinking about creating a tinny TCP over UDP.
+> If you want to do that i'm not sure it's a good idea.
+
+Hi. And first, I confirm I'm the same Vincent Archer that had @nevrax.com,
+but I no longer work there. Just resubscribed in time to see the discussion.
+
+I had a vulgarisation post on the topic on one yahoogroups (Dark Age of
+Camelot), but you can't access it without subscribing, so I'll summarise
+the thing.
+
+> Tip 7 : Don't Underestimate The Performance of TCP
+> Tip 8 : Avoid Reinventing TCP
+
+That's good advice... if you have the objectives of TCP in mind. You don't.
+In theory.
+
+Pros of TCP:
+
+- Reliable
+- Optimised over 20 years of programming
+- Fast for development
+- Most of the firewalls/telecom eqpt out hereare optimised for TCP protocols;
+  I know several IP providers who drop anything non-TCP based first when they
+  suffer congestion on their routers.
+
+Cons of TCP:
+
+- TCP is stream-based, the unit is the byte. You need to provide your own
+  packet framing, as you may, with one read call, catch part of a packet,
+  an entire packet, or multiple packets at the same time.
+- TCP has its own model for retransmission of data; you have minimal to no
+  input on that model's behaviour. And the model is geared to the transmission
+  of bulk data. There is one bit to indicate "interactive data" in the TCP
+  protocol; no common equipment I know out there uses or checks that bit.
+- TCP is strictly sequential: there is no way to access data "as soon as
+  received", or to ignore/discard "obsolete data": each data chunk must be
+  received, processed (at least at the framing level 5 layer, if you follow
+  the OSI layer model) before the next one.
+
+The last item in the list is what makes everyone look toward UDP (or any
+other IP-level protocol in fact, but routers and firewalls are usually
+disposed to treat more kindly UDP protocols than pure IP ones) for any
+application with real time constraints where:
+
+1: The exact ordering of data isn't a strong requirement
+2: The immediate processing of received data is highly desirable
+
+The real trap, as you underline, is when people design their own protocol
+over UDP and end up using the same - unconscious - model as TCP; this
+often leads to a "poor man's TCP" protocol that address none of the cons
+while providing none of the pros.
+
+To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the
+data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e. meaning)
+of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you
+cannot plug in a "random UDP protocol" in your app (in this case, the
+client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in
+complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go directly
+to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already
+made and tested.
+
+Then, there's the whole problem of kernel resources devoted to TCP stack.
+I pass here; I'm not a kernel developper.
+
+(but anyone who plays AO knows the problems you can have merely to *connect*
+ to the game at times)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000485.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000485.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..53a1a772 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000485.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:04:42 +0200 +

+
+ +
According to Vianney Lecroart:
+> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and server
+> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+
+
+This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of
+AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the
+real "problem".
+
+I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience
+"bad lag" (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution).
+However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag.
+
+They still chat with each other.
+
+And I've done checking with tcpdump: you do not talk directly between clients.
+Everything goes thru the AO servers.
+
+My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service
+model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a
+zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported
+by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service
+crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and
+randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning
+(zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection timeout -
+ you get "Area Change not initiated on server).
+
+So you have:
+
+Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP ----> Zone server
+                          ^                  /
+                          |                 /
+                          V                /
+Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP -/
+
+which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there
+appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens
+communication to zone servers. :(
+
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+
+Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under TCP :)
+(you lose connection first)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000486.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000486.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cf1a7567 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000486.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Zane + zane@supernova.org
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:08:09 -0700 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 8:50 AM
+
+
+> To be efficient, any UDP-based protocol needs to be highly aware of the
+> data semantics (not just syntax - i.e. format - but semantics - i.e.
+meaning)
+> of what it carries. Which makes it very complex and usage-specific; you
+> cannot plug in a "random UDP protocol" in your app (in this case, the
+> client-server part of NeL architecture). If you design the protocol in
+> complete isolation of the application (the MMOG) inside, better go
+directly
+> to TCP; it won't be worse than anything you'll design. And it's already
+> made and tested.
+
+I don't believe that this is entirely true.  Let's look at what we need out
+of a protocol for NeL:
+
+1)  Know what data HAS to be delivered and what data doesn't really.
+2)  Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large
+chunk of data
+at once or out of order. (If the data is spread out, not read in one call to
+the network object, then we don't need to know if it can be overwritten, and
+in order  the game engine will overwrite it if it's the same class of data)
+
+Problem one is very easy to solve, we simply use a priority argument when
+sending data with our network object.  In this case high priority data could
+be sent via TCP and low priority data could be sent via UDP.
+
+Problem two really isn't all that hard to solve either.  Perhaps we have a
+'class' argument whend sending data via our network object.  When a packet
+is sent it includes it's data class and a serial number, both client and
+server keep track of both.  When we recieve data we check the class and
+serial number.  If the serial number is out of sequence and the data is
+considered old for that class then it's discarded, otherwise it's accepted.
+If the data has no class (class is set to 0) then all data is accepted and
+the serial number isn't checked.
+
+The only problem I see is mainting the large list of data classes.  Really I
+don't think it's that much of a problem and wether or not you're using this
+model if you do discarding of data you'll be doing class checking in some
+form anyway.
+
+I'm sure the rest of you will point out the many other flaws I don't see.
+:P
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000487.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000487.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..476feec6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000487.html @@ -0,0 +1,147 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Zane + zane@supernova.org
+ Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:05:07 -0700 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:04 AM
+
+
+> This post (and the rest of the discussion) do highlight the problems of
+> AO. However, only one post, in the whole thread, seems to be close to the
+> real "problem".
+>
+> I have two friends who are playing AO together. They often experience
+> "bad lag" (i.e. 20-30s delays between a command and it's execution).
+> However, there's one strange thing during these periods of bad lag.
+
+I also play AO but every time I've experienced real "bad lag" you cannot sit
+or do any action that requires server-side confirmation including ALL chat
+channels.  In fact, I frequently will say something or shout something so
+that I know as soon as it shows up it's done lagging and this works like a
+charm.  What they're experiencing is a different type of lag than is
+discussed in the above post, that's when a particular zone they're in lags
+(or the server hosting that zone) but not all servers are affected.  I
+haven't experienced that type of lag since beta.
+
+As a side note I've noticed that when I get the "bad lag" others around me
+appear to get it too (at least sometimes) which lends weight to the packet
+storm theory.
+
+> My guess is that their architecture is based on a front-end/zone service
+> model. Clients connect to a front end, and said front-end connects to a
+> zone service, depending on the zone you are in. This is further supported
+> by various analysis points during beta, notably when the zone service
+> crashed while I was in it (and the whole mission dungeon got resert and
+> randomly re-rolled), and the numerous problems people have for zoning
+> (zone... after a strangely fixed 45s - the default TCP connection
+timeout -
+>  you get "Area Change not initiated on server).
+>
+> So you have:
+>
+> Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP ----> Zone server
+>                           ^                  /
+>                           |                 /
+>                           V                /
+> Client ---- TCP ----> Front End ---- TCP -/
+>
+> which is probably the worst architecture I can imagine, specially as there
+> appears to be one front-end per client, and front ends closes and opens
+> communication to zone servers. :(
+
+There doesn't need to be one front-end per client.  There can be several
+load-balanced front-ends that handle multiple clients each.  The major
+problem with this is if one front-end crashes all those clients get dropped
+(although under UNIX (I haven't been able to get win32 to do this) you can
+pull some funky sockets tricks and recover from a crash without dropping
+most players, just majorly lagging them & loosing some updates).
+
+The good side to this is you only need one connection per client per
+protocol (so 2 connections if using both TCP and UDP).  Unfortunately with
+TCP that's both a pro and a con.  With one TCP connection a dropped packet
+on a chat message delays all other TCP traffic, but it also lessens
+bandwidth and server resources over multiple connections (larger, more
+efficient packets).  Also, with a single front end you can have as many
+seperate services as you want without having to have a ton of different
+connections to the client.
+
+Regardless, we have no data as to wether or not AO is doing it that way.
+Maybe tonight I'll run it in windowed mode and check netstat.  If we've got
+more than one active TCP connection to Funcom servers than that model
+probably isn't what they're using.
+
+On a side note, using multiple TCP connections would eliminate some of the
+packet-loss latency issues at the cost of increased bandwidth.  Say you have
+one connection for chat channels, one for inventory & stat handling, one for
+world actions and one for combat.  If connection 1 drops a packet its lag
+won't affect the other connections as much.  But of course if they all drop
+packets at the same time we get the packet storm problem again. :)
+
+> Packet loss is a non-sequitur under TCP. You *cannot* lose packets under
+TCP :)
+> (you lose connection first)
+
+Yes but TCP has latency issues, UDP has packet-loss issues.  Why can't we
+have the uber protocol that has neither??? :)
+
+BTW, does anyone know if ipv6 has addressed this issue?  I'm aware of QoS
+but not sure to what degree they've taken it.  Personally I think the only
+way we could get garunteed delivery with low latency is to have each router
+along the way garuntee a packet is delivered (if, of course, it's load
+allows that packet to be accepted in the first place).  That way if a packet
+is dropped by a router due to load (or some other issue) the previous router
+expects a timely response and when it doesn't get one it resends or sends
+via a different route.  (Of course I would expect a per-packet ack, probably
+a CRC-ack for a certain amount of traffic)  The point being the original
+sender should never have to resend as long as the first router gets all the
+packets.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000488.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000488.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e59240d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000488.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ David Mentre + David.Mentre@inria.fr
+ 06 Jul 2001 09:54:59 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+>From all other posters, it seems that performance result is highly
+dependent on implementation. So to make the Really Good Choice(tm), you
+should have both and choose according to *figures*. So I would do that
+in the following order :
+ 
+ 1. design a "packet sending" layer which allows messages
+    sending/receiving with semantics in mind (see Vincent's post in the
+    same thread). Maybe NeL has already that, I haven't check the
+    source, sorry.
+
+ 2. implement this layer using TCP. Should be straightforward.
+
+   => gives you a backup implementation
+
+   => gives you basic performance figures
+
+ 3. design and implement UDP implementation_s_ with various
+    requirements depending on the following parameters:
+
+     - packet loss or not
+
+     - in order delivery or not
+
+    You could start from the easiest (packet loss && out of order <=>
+    raw UDP) and incrementally develop more complicated ones.
+
+ 4. substitute parts of TCP implementation (chat, position packets, ...)
+    with the corresponding UDP based protocol
+
+ 5. implement a benchmark and test, test, test, ... ; then go to step 4
+    and loop
+
+
+Ok. I don't propose any line of code so you could directly throw this
+post to /dev/null but you asked for comments. ;)
+
+BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to
+reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it
+may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax
+on some spare partition to try to "enter the loop".
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+-- 
+ David.Mentre@inria.fr
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000489.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000489.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5d04e7f9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000489.html @@ -0,0 +1,130 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ alfred + alfred@mazuma.net.au
+ Fri, 6 Jul 2001 19:41:50 +1000 +

+
+ +
You *must* replace your transport mechanism with UDP :)
+
+TCP provides (nah, ensures) reliable delivery of data, but it can spend a
+long time transmitting (especially on clogged up links). Between packet
+errors and backoffs due to packet drops it can easily take 2seconds plus to
+get data down the "tcp pipe". And seeing its a pipe, everything behind it is
+"backed" up. So, time critical data can't just jump past useless data (like
+MOTD's,etc).
+
+With UDP on the otherhand, you lose the reliable data, but you get your
+timeliness. Because of the datagram nature of transmission, you can also
+implement independant "streams", with reliablity on some streams (via extra
+software layers) and timeliness on others (auto drop of old data for eg).
+
+Btw, you cannot "design your own layer", because you need to use the
+existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP).
+However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to
+provide "reliable udp" (its almost trivial to do).
+
+Any, UDP is the only option that is sensible for anything that has time
+critical performance or for things with mutliple "data channels".
+
+BTW, I do stuff like this for a living (I am a network researched for
+www.dsto.defence.gov.au), with a fair bit of work in the voice arena, so I
+have some experience backing me up here :)
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 12:36 AM
+Subject: [Nel] TCP vs. UDP
+
+
+> Hi everybody!
+>
+> Let's talk a little bit about this great subject: TCP vs. UDP
+>
+> Thanks to Valerio Santinelli and Olivier Lejade, there's some cool
+> discussion about this subject on the web and I would like to have your
+> thought and discuss about this.
+>
+> On Anarchy Online game, they only use TCP protocol between client and
+server
+> (other commercial online game use UDP) and it seems that it causes lot of
+> problem like horrible ping or connection lost:
+> http://aoforums.funcom.com/showthread.php?threadid=26297
+>
+> There's also a mail on the MUD-Dev mailing list talking about these
+problems
+> here:
+> https://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00009.php
+>
+> As you perhaps know, we only use TCP/IP (for server-server communication,
+> but also for the client-server connection) and we currently think more and
+> more about replacing the TCP client-server connection with a UDP one.
+>
+> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o?
+K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000492.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000492.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f548b9c8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000492.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Fri, 06 Jul 2001 20:21:51 +0200 +

+
+ +
> Btw, you cannot "design your own layer", because you need to use the
+> existing internet to send your data (which will only accept UDP and TCP).
+> However, they probably did add to UDP, by adding an extra software layer to
+> provide "reliable udp" (its almost trivial to do).
+
+But do you need 'reliable transmission' ? Lost or delayed packets are
+part of the rules, couldn't you take this into account in your network
+and game code design ? Have a look at the streaming pb and protocols
+such as RTP or RTSP, they deal with the pb of 1) time sync and 2) data
+loss. This is sometime perfectly acceptable to loose some info in
+a game and replace it with interpolated data until getting back in
+sync.
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000493.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000493.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..39f73f5b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000493.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Zane + zane@supernova.org
+ Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:59:26 -0700 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 4:57 AM
+
+
+> That's priority, and bandwidth management. Not really TCP-vs-UDP relevant.
+
+Yes, but what I'm saying is knowing that is a feature of the network object
+I was discussing further into the message.
+
+> > 2)  Know what data can be overwritten by new data if we recieve a large
+> > chunk of data
+>
+> The latter requires you to look at the semantics of the data, not just the
+> syntax. You have to posit specific types of data, and, for example, you
+> don't have to retransmit data type X about object A if it has been already
+> sent out, but you have to retransmit data type Y about the same object A.
+
+I don't mean to be confrontational but did you even read the rest of my
+message?  With the network object I was discussing you pass data to be sent
+to the client with Priority and data class.  The user of the object sets up
+the classes in a manner such that the network object is aware of the classes
+(in this case a simple enum would be enough).  Here's an example:
+
+You want to pass property X of object A to the client.  You don't care if it
+gets there or not.  You then pass the data to the network object with a low
+priority and a class corresponding to the type of data property X is.
+
+You want to pass property Y of object A to the client and you need to ensure
+that it gets there.  You then pass the data to the network object with a
+high priority (and no class).
+
+> This quickly require you to tie the protocol to the exact game being made.
+> A current 3D coordinate/movement vector does not require retransmission
+> (or, at least, not the retransmission of the same data; you may send back
+>  a more up-to-date version), but it automatically implies your game has
+> moving 3D objects.
+
+The network object I described doesn't need to know anything other than data
+class and priority.  Both of those items are determined by the engine.  The
+only special knowledge the network object needs is the list of data classes.
+
+Please re-read my e-mail.
+
+In case the original wasn't clear enough the object itself decides which
+protocol to use based on priority.  High priority data would use TCP and low
+would use UDP with of course an additional header in the packet.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000494.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000494.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5eb1404d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000494.html @@ -0,0 +1,138 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Sal + svferro@earthlink.net
+ Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:32:46 -0400 +

+
+ +
> In a first step, we would like to know your opinion about this choice. And
+> in a next step, we'll do some test about ping/packet lost and so on to
+> compare TCP and UDP, and we'll need your help to do that.
+>
+> Vianney Lecroart
+
+    I've coded small scale 3d client/server systems in both TCP and UDP
+while developing software for Worldforge, and have playtested both systems.
+The end result was that UDP gameplay just seemed smoother, especially under
+low latency/bad connections.  Even when I had inserted code to purposely
+drop packets, gameplay was still surprisingly bearable.
+
+    On my LAN or for persons with fast links to the server TCP was not
+really noticeably slower, though.  So with very low latency, and little
+packet loss TCP would be the better choice, but unfortunately that isn't the
+case for the internet just yet.  A lot of people are behind slow links,
+shared internet connections, or in unfortunate locations... for some people
+overseas my TCP-based software was almost unplayable, where UDP was still at
+least minimally usable.  If you guys do end up benchmarking TCP vs. UDP, be
+sure to test over a simulated low-latency, and/or 'noisy' link.  Drop
+packets randomly, simulate possible internet conditions.  I'm sure you will
+come to the same results I did.
+
+    The majority of problems I've had with UDP are firewall related. And
+they were almost all serverside, ie a person trying to run a UDP server
+behind a firewall and unable to map ports/etc. to let clients connect.
+Clientside, however there was very little trouble, it worked through my
+ipmasq firewall without problems, for one, and others had been testing
+behind firewalls also.
+
+    However, a bit of 'reinventing TCP' was needed for the reliable data.
+This is unavoidable, some messages need to be sent and can't be
+ignored/dropped. And I agree that the OS's TCP implementation is probably
+more efficient than one drawn up for a video game.  But I don't think using
+both UDP and TCP is worth the trouble to gain a reliable data transmission
+stream.  I just don't think the performance improvement would be significant
+enough to justify the implementation... Let me explain why I think so.
+
+    Now, say you were sending a 10 MB file over the internet to a friend.
+_Every_ packet must make it to the peer or the file would be corrupt. Every
+packet must be acknowledged somehow, using some crc, sequence number... etc.
+I haven't looked at any actual TCP implementation's source code, but I'll
+bet it does all sorts of compromising between packet transmission and
+acknowledgement frequency,  message sizes, etc. and over the course of
+sending 10 Million packets (ok, maybe less for a 10 MB file)  it probably
+saves a considerable amount of time over some dumb UDP code that
+acknowledges say, every 10 packets or some other simplistic mechanism.
+
+    Yes, in that situation, reinventing TCP would be a bad idea... and yes,
+it is definately a better choice than UDP, which in fact is why almost every
+internet protocol uses TCP.  But in our case we aren't sending a 10MB file,
+we're sending short messages to tell the client/server something important.
+ie a 'player X has died' message, which could be maybe a dozen bytes in
+size. All the fancy optimization that an OS's TCP stack does over the course
+of time wouldn't be of much use here.  Also, in sending a 10MB file you dont
+care about latency, and you know what the next few thousand packets are
+going to consist of beforehand, whereas in a video game this is not the
+case. The optimizations TCP gives you would only take effect if you were
+sending large, continuous blocks of data.
+
+    So for the gameplay networking layer I suggest UDP.  The only exception
+in my opinion is for things like automatic client-patching, or downloading
+of media.  In that case,  having the client make an HTTP connection to a web
+server, or something similair is a *much* better choice than using the
+'gameplay networking' layer to send this data.
+
+    The software I spoke of here is all in Worldforge's (www.worldforge.org)
+CVS repository.  The software I tested with was XClient, and XServer, which
+are both in CVS.
+
+    The UDP networking library I created and used in XClient/XServer, which
+I recommend taking a look at, is called 'XUDP' (not the library that Dave
+posted about, but has the same name :-/) is also in Worldforge CVS. I
+extracted the UDP networking code from the GPLed Quake1 src, and converted
+it into a general C++ OO UDP networking library. It contains code for both
+reliable and unreliable transmission of data.  Credit should go mostly to
+John Carmack of Id software for the code. I just abstracted, and tweaked a
+bit for use in an MMORPG setting. It might be helpful if you guys decide to
+go with UDP for Nel.
+
+    Anyway, sorry for the long winded rant. Hope this helps some, and keep
+up the great work!
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000495.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000495.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6f102924 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000495.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Power cut + + + + + + +

[Nel] Power cut

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Sun, 8 Jul 2001 16:55:10 +0200 +

+
+ +
Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main
+trip switch cut out during an electrical storm.
+They should be back up now.
+
+Daniel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a686dffb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000496.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:44:09 +0200 +

+
+ +
I've been reading this thread with great interest.  There's clearly a good
+case for using UDP for low priority or short life-span data.  In this case
+the app software on top of NeL must clearly be designed with the fact that
+some data isn't going to get through in mind.
+
+The problem is particularly interesting because:
+1. The limiting factor on the amount of data we transmit looks like being
+the cost of output bandwidth for the servers.
+- as far as I can ascertain, at today's costs we're looking at something
+like 8-16 kilobits per client per second maximum output from the servers
+(including lost packets)
+2. The complexity of the scenes that we are trying to convey to the clients
+is rising fast.
+- view distances are increasing, as are screen resolutions which means that
+you can see more dynamic world content at any given time (characters,
+creatures, objects...)
+- It is clear that for MMORPGs we wil soon need to be able to display crouds
+or armies of 100s or even 1000s of characters and creatures at once.
+- Character animation is becoming more complicated to reflect a mix of
+actions performed simultaneously (such as speaking with emotional facial
+expression and manipulating an object in one's hands while sitting down) -
+which means more information to describe each character's state.
+- and so on...
+
+These two points combined mean that, whichever way one looks at it, a lot of
+scene information will have to be filtered out or sent at low frequency.  If
+one isn't careful low frequency sends can obviously be very sensitive to
+packet loss - which leads me to the point of this posting: In order to work
+the problem we need to have a good understanding of true internet behaviour
+and to have a good set of test data for simulating it.
+
+The trouble right now is that I have no hard data to use to model packet
+loss or delivery latency over time. If anybody knows of any studies that
+have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested. In
+particular I'm interested in moderately bad connections that exhibit both
+good behaviour and bad behaviour over time.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3a32b444 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000498.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Power cut + + + + + + +

[Nel] Power cut

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Sun, 8 Jul 2001 21:49:02 +0200 +

+
+ +
According to Daniel Miller:
+> Our servers have been down since Friday evening when the server room's main
+> trip switch cut out during an electrical storm.
+> They should be back up now.
+
+You weren't alone; the mail server I use, which is located 200m as the crow
+flies from Nevrax, went down at the same time, and back up... almost at the
+same time :)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9b7fc638 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000500.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:00:11 +0200 +

+
+ +
At 06:44 PM 7/8/01 +0200, you wrote:
+>If anybody knows of any studies that
+>have been done or has any of their own data I'd be very interested.
+
+You should absolutely take a look at CiteSeer:
+http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/cs
+There's always tons of interesting stuff in there.
+
+Or, you could also try the old pfd search:
+http://searchpdf.adobe.com/
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b5532f2f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000501.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs. UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs. UDP

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:08:53 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi David,
+
+> BTW, what is your Linux configuration? I've been stuck with the need to
+> reinstall everything (X, STLport, freetype) on my debian machine. So it
+> may be easier to install the Linux distribution your are using at Nevrax
+> on some spare partition to try to "enter the loop".
+
+Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or
+greater
+We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to install
+external library like STLport and Freetype as explains in the INSTALL
+file in the NeL root directory.
+We plan to modify the configure.in to enable the compilation without STLport
+but
+we have to be sure that NeL works compile correctly without STLport!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b331b750 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000502.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Nel] Login System Game + + + + + + +

[Nel] Login System Game

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:18:55 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi everybody!
+
+We just launch our new game! no, no, please, keep cool, it's not THE game,
+but a little game for geeks/nerds/hackers :-)
+
+On the server named itsalive.nevrax.org, we have launch a shard with:
+login_service, naming_service, admin_executor_service, admin_service,
+time_service, welcome_service and a frontend_service.
+
+The goal of the game is: to crash/hack everything on this server (and only
+this one please ;-)
+
+We put the real login system to connect to the front end, so one goal is to
+successfully connect to the front end *without* login/password
+or to find a failure in the login procedure.
+
+You can find the documentation about how the login system works here:
+http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/login_system.html
+
+In the CVS directory "nel/samples/login_sytem/"
+(http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/samples/login_system/),
+you'll find the client source that is used to connect to the shard and
+also the frontend service code (that does nothing) that is running on
+itsalive.
+The client uses a configuration file (client.cfg) that contains the ip
+address of the login service
+and the login and password you want to provide. If the login doesn't exist,
+it will be added to the
+database with the password associate to it and the next time, you'll need to
+provide the good password
+to validate the login.
+
+All others services sources running on itsalive are located here:
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nelns/
+
+Our goal is know if our login system is robust or not.
+
+You can do everything you want to crash a service, all services or the
+computer but, please,
+explain us what you did to enable us to fix the problem!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..deeb13ce --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000505.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compiling + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compiling

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:45:21 +0200 +

+
+ +
Ed Landa wrote:
+> 
+> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in
+> one section.  It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug, so
+> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem:
+
+Be sure to use the latest beta labeled '0619', it fixes some nasty bugs
+of the 4.5b7 (http://www.stlport.org/beta/STLport-0619.tar.gz).
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c8db7826 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000506.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:32:00 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+This error is a NeL compilation error, not a STLport version problem.
+This should be fixed now. Thanks for the report.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Ed Landa" <elanda@xeme.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 7:34 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compiling (was: TCP vs. UDP)
+
+
+> > Ok, normally, it should works on all linux distribution with gcc 2.95 or
+> > greater
+> > We tested it on radhat, debian and it works well. But you have to
+install
+>
+> I've tried using STLport 4.0 and 4.5, but I still end up with an error in
+> one section.  It's too much C++ for this C programmer to be able to debug,
+so
+> I thought I'd ask the list if anyone else is having this problem:
+>
+> (this isn't pretty, but it looks to me like it is trying to make a STL
+call
+> that doesn't exist)
+>
+> $ rpm -q gcc
+> gcc-2.96-85
+>
+> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d'
+> /bin/sh ../../libtool --mode=compile
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/
+>
+code/nel/src/3d -I../../include    -I/usr/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/inclu
+de/s
+>
+tlport   -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/
+X11R
+> 6/include -c tile_bank.cpp
+> rm -f .libs/tile_bank.lo
+>
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/src/3d -I../../include -
+I/us
+>
+r/include/freetype2 -O3 -I/usr/include/stlport -I/home/elanda/NeL/code/nel/s
+rc -
+>
+Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/tile_bank.pp -
+c ti
+> le_bank.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/tile_bank.lo
+> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h: In method `void
+> NLMISC::IStream::serialSTLContLen (T &, int) [with T =
+> _STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string> >]':
+> tile_bank.cpp:616:   instantiated from here
+> ../../include/nel/misc/stream.h:570: no matching function for call to
+> `_STL::set<string, _STL::less<string>, _STL::allocator<string>
+> >::insert (_STL::_Rb_tree_iterator<string, _STL::_Const_traits<string>
+> >)'
+> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:134: candidates are:
+> _STL::pair<typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>,
+> _Compare, _Alloc>::const_iterator, bool> _STL::set<_Key, _Compare,
+> _Alloc>::insert (const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare =
+> _STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>]
+> /usr/include/stlport/stl/_set.h:139:                 typename
+> _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare,
+> _Alloc>::const_iterator _STL::set<_Key, _Compare, _Alloc>::insert
+> (typename _STL::_Rb_tree<_Key, _Key, _STL::_Identity<_Tp>, _Compare,
+> _Alloc>::const_iterator, const _Key &) [with _Key = string, _Compare =
+> _STL::less<string>, _Alloc = _STL::allocator<string>]
+> make[1]: *** [tile_bank.lo] Error 1
+>
+>
+>
+> Also, I've put together a .spec file for making a STLport RPM.  If anyone
+wants
+> it, just drop me a line.
+>
+> Ed
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..251b44f2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000507.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowball client trouble + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowball client trouble

+ Xavier Ordoquy + xordoquy@aurora-linux.com
+ 13 Jul 2001 12:23:08 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2
+When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet
+size.
+I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't
+connect it and tries to reach the default serveur.
+How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg
+file ?)
+
+Thanks.
+
+-- 
+ Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux
+ If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question.
+ Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does.
+                              (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9a86eca2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000508.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowball client trouble + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowball client trouble

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:48:31 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi Xavier,
+
+I think you should try to install it on NT ;-) nice signature
+
+Snowballs 0.2 is really deprecated and you should wait the next week for
+Snowball 2!
+
+Anyway, it's in the client.cfg file that you specify where the server is:
+LSHost = "localhost";
+If you put this in the client.cfg, the client will connect to your localhost
+login system
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Xavier Ordoquy" <xordoquy@aurora-linux.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:23 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Snowball client trouble
+
+
+> Hi,
+>
+> I've downloaded and compiled snowball 0.2
+> When I try to launch the client, I got error about the first packet
+> size.
+> I then tried to configure it to use my local serveur, but it doesn't
+> connect it and tries to reach the default serveur.
+> How can I change this ? (how does the client read the client.cfg
+> file ?)
+>
+> Thanks.
+>
+> --
+>  Xavier Ordoquy, Aurora-linux
+>  If NT is the answer, you didn't understand the question.
+>  Complexity has nothing to do with intelligence. Simplicity does.
+>                               (Larry Bossidy, CEO, Allied Signal)
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dc7edaf9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000511.html @@ -0,0 +1,154 @@ + + + + [Nel] www.nevrax.org down + + + + + + +

[Nel] www.nevrax.org down

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:52:18 +0200 +

+
+ +
Thanks for the message.
+For info, the server is up and we have access to the outside world so I'm
+not quite sure what's goign on.
+Colt is our ISP - we're following it up.
+
+Regards
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+david.belius@chello.se
+Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 12:00 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+When i ping it i get:
+Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+
+When i traceroute i get:
+pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+9.447 ms
+  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+43.382 ms
+   48.619 ms
+  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+  45.381
+ms  48.53 ms
+  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+  52.145
+ms  60.492 ms
+11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+48.3 ms
+12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+  55.997
+ms
+13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+53.683 ms
+   47.798 ms
+14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+69.684 ms
+  59.31 ms
+15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+ms  93.71
+3 ms
+16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+ms  81.68
+2 ms
+18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+85.816 ms
+19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms
+100.501 ms
+20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+115.294 ms
+21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+ms  135
+.302 ms
+22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+116.263 m
+s
+23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+ms  132
+.275 ms
+24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+131.91 ms
+25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+ms  143
+.39 ms
+26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+142.631 m
+s
+27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+ms  160
+.689 ms
+28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+158.716 m
+s
+29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+ms  175
+.634 ms
+30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+174.412 ms
+
+It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between
+relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+
+/David
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..08b37bc6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000512.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ + + + + [Nel] www.nevrax.org down + + + + + + +

[Nel] www.nevrax.org down

+ Brenden Towey + brenden@rcsis.com
+ Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:02:18 -0700 +

+
+ +
Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com).
+
+I didn't get a traceroute...
+
+Brenden
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: david.belius@chello.se <david.belius@chello.se>
+To: nel@nevrax.org <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+>I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+>When i ping it i get:
+>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+>
+>When i traceroute i get:
+>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+>  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+>9.447 ms
+>  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+>  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+>  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+>  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+>  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+>  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+>43.382 ms
+>   48.619 ms
+>  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+>  45.381
+>ms  48.53 ms
+>  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+>10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+>  52.145
+>ms  60.492 ms
+>11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+>48.3 ms
+>12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+>  55.997
+>ms
+>13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+>53.683 ms
+>   47.798 ms
+>14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+>69.684 ms
+>  59.31 ms
+>15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+>ms  93.71
+>3 ms
+>16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+>17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+>ms  81.68
+>2 ms
+>18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+>85.816 ms
+>19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms 
+>100.501 ms
+>20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+>115.294 ms
+>21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+>ms  135
+>.302 ms
+>22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+>116.263 m
+>s
+>23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+>ms  132
+>.275 ms
+>24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+>131.91 ms
+>25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+>ms  143
+>.39 ms
+>26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+>142.631 m
+>s
+>27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+>ms  160
+>.689 ms
+>28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+>158.716 m
+>s
+>29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+>ms  175
+>.634 ms
+>30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+>174.412 ms
+>
+>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between 
+>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+>
+>/David
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0141dad6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000513.html @@ -0,0 +1,171 @@ + + + + [Nel] www.nevrax.org down + + + + + + +

[Nel] www.nevrax.org down

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:36:40 +0200 +

+
+ +
Thanks for the info.
+If anyone else has trouble it would be much appreciated if you could let us
+know.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel
+
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Brenden Towey
+Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 5:02 AM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+Works fine at 8:00pm PDT from California (rcsis.com).
+
+I didn't get a traceroute...
+
+Brenden
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: david.belius@chello.se <david.belius@chello.se>
+To: nel@nevrax.org <nel@nevrax.org>
+Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:43 AM
+Subject: [Nel] www.nevrax.org down
+
+
+>I can't reach www.nevrax.org.
+>When i ping it i get:
+>Reply from 194.250.133.2: TTL expired in transit.
+>
+>When i traceroute i get:
+>pong:~$ traceroute www.nevrax.org
+>traceroute to www.nevrax.org (195.68.21.195), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
+>  1  c193.150.204.1.cm-upc.chello.se (193.150.204.1)  7.8 ms  14.56 ms
+>9.447 ms
+>  2  gsr1-ge1-2.upc.se (213.200.190.91)  8.156 ms  8.703 ms  8.476 ms
+>  3  213.46.176.5 (213.46.176.5)  9.117 ms  17.592 ms  16.453 ms
+>  4  * 213.46.160.210 (213.46.160.210)  9.436 ms  12.343 ms
+>  5  213.46.160.205 (213.46.160.205)  34.315 ms  46.031 ms *
+>  6  * * fr-par-rc-01-pos-0-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.69)  43.049 ms
+>  7  fr-par-rd-01-pos-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.160.74)  43.536 ms
+>43.382 ms
+>   48.619 ms
+>  8  fr-par-rb-01-pos-8-1-0.chellonetwork.com (213.46.163.22)  49.991 ms
+>  45.381
+>ms  48.53 ms
+>  9  213.46.163.30 (213.46.163.30)  46.188 ms  46.096 ms  52.818 ms
+>10  fr-par-ri-01-pos-0-0-0.chellonetwork.com (212.17.101.53)  49.037 ms
+>  52.145
+>ms  60.492 ms
+>11  colt-telecommunication.sfinx.tm.fr (194.68.129.224)  48.797 ms *
+>48.3 ms
+>12  relay2-th.s3-0-E3.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.209)  50.71 ms  47.67 ms
+>  55.997
+>ms
+>13  relay2-colt.OC3-POS5-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.206)  48.739 ms
+>53.683 ms
+>   47.798 ms
+>14  relay-colt.OC3.pos-0-0-0.fr.colt.net (194.250.136.61)  48.363 ms
+>69.684 ms
+>  59.31 ms
+>15  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  78.627 ms  76.116
+>ms  93.71
+>3 ms
+>16  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  72.892 ms *  203.14 ms
+>17  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  86.043 ms  85.756
+>ms  81.68
+>2 ms
+>18  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  83.823 ms  82.836 ms
+>85.816 ms
+>19  * relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  100.03 ms
+>100.501 ms
+>20  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  99.883 ms  108.619 ms
+>115.294 ms
+>21  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  112.519 ms  131.176
+>ms  135
+>.302 ms
+>22  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  110.856 ms  117.394 ms
+>116.263 m
+>s
+>23  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  131.426 ms  129.002
+>ms  132
+>.275 ms
+>24  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  132.29 ms  126.232 ms
+>131.91 ms
+>25  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  143.837 ms  145.277
+>ms  143
+>.39 ms
+>26  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  141.688 ms  144.001 ms
+>142.631 m
+>s
+>27  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  160.698 ms  160.527
+>ms  160
+>.689 ms
+>28  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  161.402 ms  158.537 ms
+>158.716 m
+>s
+>29  relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.2)  176.744 ms  179.256
+>ms  175
+>.634 ms
+>30  gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net (194.250.133.1)  177.412 ms  178.237 ms
+>174.412 ms
+>
+>It seems as if my packets are jumping back and forth between
+>relay-colt.s5-1-0-8.fr.colt.net and gw1.NiceSiris.fr.colt.net.
+>Is it your(nevrax's) isp that is choking?
+>
+>/David
+>
+>_______________________________________________
+>Nel mailing list
+>Nel@nevrax.org
+>http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..85413bdf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000517.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowball 2.0? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowball 2.0?

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:14:50 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hello Tony,
+
+> I'm curious as to the progress of SnowBall and it's compatability with
+> the latest version of nel.
+
+The Snowball is out of date. It doesn't compile with NeL since we change lot
+of things in the user interface. We (Cedric Valignat, Benjamin Legros and I)
+work on the new snowball called Snowballs2. In this version, we rewrite
+everything from scratch (except lens flare and radar) with the current NeL
+interface. There's a simple (14 cpp files) client explain how to use NeL.
+It uses lot of stuffs from NeL like Particule system, Animation, Skeleton,
+Skinning, Landscape, Collision, Network, etc...
+So it will be a good tutorial or starting point to use NeL.
+We plan to release it soon (before the end of the next week) and we actually
+work on the server side and 3d datas integration.
+
+> Has the team stableized things in the
+> interface to a point where a new version could be done or should we see
+> more inteface re-defineing changes in the future that could strongly
+> affect any projects desired to be based off of it?
+
+The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We
+plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current
+user interface doesn't change often anyway.
+
+>   Also, how's the progress on the 3d rendering engine?  At home I have a
+> p3 800 but only a tnt2 ultra video card with 32mb ram.  Will nel
+> eventually be developed to support that weak a model of graphics card?
+
+> At least there should be some options of disableing a lot of 'special
+> affects' to help speed up the game in question.  And we all know that it
+> should be able to deal with 100 active actors on screen at one time.
+> (Stress test)  But how possable does that look in the near future?
+
+I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..561c12f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/000518.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowball 2.0? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowball 2.0?

+ Tony Hoyt + ahoyt@packetport.com
+ Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:43:46 -0400 +

+
+ +
Vianney Lecroart wrote: 
+
+  I've read some of the logs to this newsgroup so I knew about the
+issues with the current SnowBall.  I would like to give NEL a try but I
+was hopeing a more full version example would help me more :-) But yes,
+i'll look at the tutorials some more to see how this sdk works.
+
+> The NeL library user interface changes often because we have not fix it. We
+> plan to fix the NeL interface before the end of this year. But the current
+> user interface doesn't change often anyway.
+
+  I'm a little confused here.  Basicly what I want to know is, if I
+write code for nel now, how strong is the possablity of me having to
+re-write that code to take into the count of changes in function
+definitions?  now i know the code must evolve and change, but if I start
+writing an application with the sdk, and every two months i need to make
+major revisions to keep up with the latest and greatest, I may pause
+some before starting development.  How possable is it to see a lock on
+the headers?
+ 
+> I leave Cyril Corvazier (lead 3d programer) to answer to this :)
+
+  Also, anyone hear about this new technology Verant Interactive is
+going to be using for EQ1.5? (ie, the upcomeing expansion)  I hear it's
+supposed to help make online games work a hell of a lot faster.  But
+what is it?
+
+  Tony
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0320d443 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-July Archive by Author + + + +

2001-July Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Messages: 64

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b3fd8e2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-July Archive by Date + + + +

2001-July Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Messages: 64

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b1127deb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,221 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-July Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-July Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Messages: 64

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d06f4599 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-July Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-July Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Messages: 64

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b1127deb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-July/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,221 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-July Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-July Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Sun Jul 1 00:10:44 2001
+ Ending: Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Messages: 64

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jul 19 14:43:46 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Jul 19 15:59:36 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c481beee --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000417.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowball for Win32 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowball for Win32

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:02:17 +0200 +

+
+ +
Messaggio in formato MIME composto da piy parti.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball =
+demo application?=20
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish =
+a Win32=20
+version of the Snowball demo application? </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--<BR>Valerio =
+Santinelli<BR>HateSeed.com Founder=20
+(<A href=3D"http://www.hateseed.com">http://www.hateseed.com</A>)<BR>In =
+Flames=20
+Italia Webmaster (<A=20
+href=3D"http://www.inflames.it">http://www.inflames.it</A>)<BR>My Lab =
+(<A=20
+href=3D"http://tanis.hateseed.com">http://tanis.hateseed.com</A>)</FONT><=
+/DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C0F265.FA566AC0--
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..77127d7a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000418.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowball for Win32 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowball for Win32

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:28:52 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi Valerio,
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball
+> demo application? 
+
+Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit.  We're planning to put
+together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D
+code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there
+we'll look at releasing a binary.  I hope this helps.
+
+Regards,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c1c97cc2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000419.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] Itsalive is dead + + + + + + +

[Nel] Itsalive is dead

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:21:45 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi all,
+
+Itsalive decide to give up (due to a hardware problem).
+
+There'll be a new posting as soon as it's resurected.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+PS: Itsalive is our Snowballs server ...
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4e4a3284 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000420.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowball for Win32 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowball for Win32

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Wed, 13 Jun 2001 12:26:34 +0200 +

+
+ +
I talked to Ace and I'll wait for the new version of Snowball to be
+released. Thanks :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cedric Valignat" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:28 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Snowball for Win32
+
+
+>
+> Hi Valerio,
+>
+> Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> > Are you guys at Nevrax going to publish a Win32 version of the Snowball
+> > demo application?
+>
+> Since we wrote Snowballs, NeL has moved on a fair bit.  We're planning to
+put
+> together a new version of Snowballs that uses the latest Network and 3D
+> code. It'll take us a short while to get it together, but once it's there
+> we'll look at releasing a binary.  I hope this helps.
+>
+> Regards,
+>
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3f5401d0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000421.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Hello and a Question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Hello and a Question

+ Alfred + alfred@mazuma.net.au
+ Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:47:54 +1000 +

+
+ +
Hey guys,
+	My name is Alfred and my "credentials" are that I am the "father" of 
+admin mod (http://www.adminmod.org) along with being a devloper for some 
+other hl based mods (firearms for eg).
+	I work as a research engineer into tactical networks, so I have a fair 
+bit of experience with comms effects in harsh conditions (i.e the 
+general internet).
+
+	Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed 
+architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as 
+CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of 
+support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am 
+not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make 
+your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and 
+authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with.
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2657f61d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000422.html @@ -0,0 +1,663 @@ + + + + [Nel] A bit of news + + + + + + +

[Nel] A bit of news

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:56:21 +0200 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+For anyone who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at
+Nevrax.
+
+Regards to all,
+Daniel.
+
+
+
+================================================
+NeL Development Team Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap
+================================================
+
+Summer 2001:
+============
+
+The teams are working hard on the technology code required for an important
+internal milestone, for the Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for
+next September.  The features listed under 'Coming Soon' (below) are on the
+todo list for the internal milestone and will become available through the
+summer.
+During this period much of the code is being developed under Windows 2000
+(predominantly AI and 3D) and is liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/
+Linux testing.
+Linux patches/ bug fixes will be readily accepted.
+
+
+Autumn 2001:
+============
+Once the internal milestone is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL
+development teams will be reduced and we will open up discussion about
+further direction, specification improvemens and so on.
+
+
+Snowballs:
+==========
+
+Snowballs is going to be re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the
+advancements and changes of direction in the NeL library since January.
+There'll be postings as development progresses.
+We intend to release a binary once the new code has been put together.
+
+
+Net:
+====
+
+Done so far:
+------------
+- Layer 0 (Data transfer layer) implementation
+- Layer 1 (Data block management layer) implementation
+- Layer 2 (Serialised data management layer) implementation
+- Layer 3 (Message management layer) implementation & examples
+- Layer 4 (Inter-Service message addressing layer) implementation & examples
+- The 'Service' Framework implementation & examples
+- System services (Naming Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion,
+API & examples
+- Login system (Stand alone program, client API) implementation & samples
+
+In development:
+---------------
+- Shard Administration system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client)
+implementation
+- Improved debugging tools for services in a shard
+
+Coming Soon:
+------------
+- Backup Service
+- Account manager (stand alone)
+
+On the list for later:
+----------------------
+- Robustness testing and improvement (robustness to common attacks)
+- System stress testing and stressed performance improvement
+- Profiling and optimisation
+- Tuning of GNU/ Linux for NeL shard servers
+
+
+3D:
+===
+
+Done:
+-----
+- A basic sub set of the materials (missing bump mapping, etc)
+- Scenery rendering - Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise
+and water
+- Scenery rendering - Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based
+culling
+- Character and object animation and rendering with exception of IK
+- 3DSMax Plugins and exporters for generating the data for the above systems
+
+In development:
+---------------
+- Light maps for indoor scenes
+- A particle and effects engine
+
+Coming Soon:
+------------
+- Further materials
+- Multi resolution mesh support
+- Adaptive level of detail management system
+- Support for super-simplified meshes in the distance
+- Geometric noise in the landscape
+- The first version of the audio engine (low spec)
+- Portal based object culling for indoor scenes
+
+Coming Later:
+-------------
+- Water
+- Real time shadows (cast be characters and objects)
+- Blend shapes (also called morphing) - for things like facial animation
+- Further material types (bump maps, etc)
+- Inverse kinematics (a very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)
+- Dynamic lighting
+- A higher spec audio engine
+
+On the list for later:
+----------------------
+- Optimisation
+- Optimisation for NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)
+- Better model for generating low-detail MRM meshes
+
+
+PACS (Pathfinding And Collision System):
+========================================
+
+In develoment:
+--------------
+- System for generating collision and path finding information from outdoor
+scenery
+- Path finding system
+- Object/ Object collision system
+- Object/ Landscape collision system
+- System for adapting character and object positions to landscape
+tesselation
+
+Coming soon:
+------------
+- System for generating collision and path finding information for indoor
+scenery
+
+
+AI:
+===
+
+Done:
+-----
+- Distributed autonomous agent framework infrastructure
+- Run time agent definition scripting system
+- Tool set for creation of hard-coded agents
+- Finite state automaton plugin for agent framework
+- 'Operator' based action planning plugin for the agent framework
+
+In Development:
+---------------
+- Agent memory
+- 'Classifier' based learning plugin for teh agent framework
+- Priority and contribution management in operators
+
+
+Misc:
+=====
+
+Done so far:
+------------
+- A huge number of miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes,
+constants and functions that everybody at Nevrax swears by.
+Further development:
+- Development of the 'misc' library is chaotic - as little bits of
+functionality are written to left or right they tend to be added.
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
+class=3D153144915-15062001>For anyone=20
+who's interested, here's a brief view of what we're up to at=20
+Nevrax.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
+class=3D153144915-15062001>Regards to=20
+all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>Daniel.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>NeL =
+Development Team=20
+Summer/ Autumn 2001 Roadmap</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT=20
+face=3DArial>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
+New"><?xml:namespace=20
+prefix =3D o ns =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"=20
+/><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Summer =
+2001:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>The teams are =
+working hard=20
+on the technology code required for an important internal milestone, for =
+the=20
+Massively Multiuser Universe in development, for next September.<SPAN=20
+style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>The features listed under =
+'Coming Soon'=20
+(below) are on the todo list for the internal milestone and will become=20
+available through the summer.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>During this =
+period much of=20
+the code is being developed under Windows 2000 (predominantly AI and 3D) =
+and is=20
+liable to be committed to CVS without GNU/ Linux testing. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Linux =
+patches/ bug fixes=20
+will be readily accepted.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Autumn =
+2001:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></F=
+ONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Once the =
+internal milestone=20
+is behind us, the internal pressure on the NeL development teams will be =
+reduced=20
+and we will open up discussion about further direction, specification=20
+improvemens and so on.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Snowballs:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></=
+DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Snowballs is =
+going to be=20
+re-written over the next few weeks to reflect the advancements and =
+changes of=20
+direction in the NeL library since January.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>There'll be =
+postings as=20
+development progresses.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>We intend to =
+release a=20
+binary once the new code has been put together.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Net:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so =
+far:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 0 =
+(Data transfer=20
+layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 1 =
+(Data block=20
+management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 2 =
+(Serialised data=20
+management layer) implementation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 3 =
+(Message=20
+management layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Layer 4 =
+(Inter-Service=20
+message addressing layer) implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The =
+'Service' Framework=20
+implementation &amp; examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System =
+services (Naming=20
+Service, Time Service, Log Service) implementaion, API &amp;=20
+examples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Login =
+system (Stand alone=20
+program, client API) implementation &amp; samples</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20
+development:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Shard =
+Administration=20
+system (Admin Service, Admin Executor, Admin Client) implementation=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Improved =
+debugging tools=20
+for services in a shard</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+Soon:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Backup=20
+Service</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Account =
+manager (stand=20
+alone)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list =
+for=20
+later:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Robustness =
+testing and=20
+improvement (robustness to common attacks)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System =
+stress testing and=20
+stressed performance improvement</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Profiling =
+and=20
+optimisation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tuning of =
+GNU/ Linux for=20
+NeL shard servers</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>3D:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A basic sub =
+set of the=20
+materials (missing bump mapping, etc) </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Scenery =
+rendering -=20
+Outdoors implemented with exception of geometric noise and =
+water</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- =
+Scenery rendering -=20
+Indoors with exception of light maps and portal based culling<SPAN=20
+style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Character =
+and object=20
+animation and rendering with exception of IK</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 3DSMax =
+Plugins and=20
+exporters for generating the data for the above systems</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In=20
+development:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>---------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Light maps =
+for indoor=20
+scenes</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A particle =
+and effects=20
+engine</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+Soon:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further=20
+materials</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
+FR"><FONT=20
+size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Multi resolution mesh=20
+support<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Adaptive =
+level of detail=20
+management system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Support for =
+
+super-simplified meshes in the distance</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Geometric =
+noise in the=20
+landscape</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- The first =
+version of the=20
+audio engine (low spec)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Portal =
+based object=20
+culling for indoor scenes</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+Later:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>-------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+Water</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Real time =
+shadows (cast=20
+be characters and objects)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Blend =
+shapes (also called=20
+morphing) - for things like facial animation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Further =
+material types=20
+(bump maps, etc)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Inverse =
+kinematics (a=20
+very limited, simple and CPU unintensive model)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Dynamic=20
+lighting</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A higher =
+spec audio=20
+engine</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the list =
+for=20
+later:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>----------------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+Optimisation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+Optimisation for=20
+NVidiaNV20 and similar cards (vertex shaders, etc)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Better =
+model for=20
+generating low-detail MRM meshes</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>PACS =
+(Pathfinding And=20
+Collision System):</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
+=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV=
+>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>In =
+develoment:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>--------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+generating=20
+collision and path finding information from outdoor scenery</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Path =
+finding=20
+system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
+FR"><FONT=20
+size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New">- Object/ Object collision=20
+system<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Object/ =
+Landscape=20
+collision system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+adapting=20
+character and object positions to landscape tesselation</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Coming =
+soon:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>------------</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- System for =
+generating=20
+collision and path finding information for indoor scenery</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>AI:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Done:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>-----</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Distributed =
+autonomous=20
+agent framework infrastructure</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Run time =
+agent definition=20
+scripting system</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Tool set =
+for creation of=20
+hard-coded agents </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Finite =
+state automaton=20
+plugin for agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- 'Operator' =
+based action=20
+planning plugin for the agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2>In =
+Development<SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
+class=3D153144915-15062001>---------------</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Agent =
+memory</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- =
+'Classifier' based=20
+learning plugin for teh agent framework</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Priority =
+and contribution=20
+management in operators</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2>Misc:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
+size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Done so =
+far:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D153144915-15062001><FONT =
+face=3D"Courier New"=20
+size=3D2>------------</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- A huge =
+number of=20
+miscelaneous and highly handy typedefs, macros, classes, constants and =
+functions=20
+that everybody at Nevrax swears by.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Further=20
+development:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>- Development =
+of the 'misc'=20
+library is chaotic - as little bits of functionality are written to left =
+or=20
+right they tend to be added.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV class=3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
+face=3D"Courier =
+New">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0F5C4.7C949000--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aaddac09 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000423.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] Hello and a Question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Hello and a Question

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:35:16 +0200 +

+
+ +
> Anyway, my question is, why did you develop your own distributed
+> architecture? Why not adapt/extend/use an existing solution such as
+> CORBA or DCOM (urgh, I know, win32 only). CORBA has a fair amount of
+> support and it can be coaxed to have the characteristics you need. I am
+> not saying you should change, I was just wonder what led you to make
+> your own? It just seems that the overheads of designing a naming and
+> authentication service are something that CORBA would have done away with.
+
+As you point out, DCOM isn't portable so we ruled it out :)
+As for CORBA: Having worked a fair bit with it while at college, I concluded
+that it lacked some of the functionality that we wanted. For example, we can
+have several instances of the same service running simultaneously on our
+shard and the naming service can either return us a list of all of them or
+select the least loaded one (which CORBA cannot do). What's more, we found
+that CORBA was excessively heavy for our requirements, which only require a
+corner of the system. Our naming service only took a couple of days to
+develop and remains entirely open to expansion, adaptation or tuning to keep
+up with NeL's evolving needs.
+
+We looked in depth into the ACE and TAO library (Real-time CORBA with TAO
+(The ACE ORB)). The webpage seems down www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html,
+but the lib is absolutely huge... one hour at least of compilation. We
+didn't want to be dependent on such a large library just for a naming
+service and a communication protocol.
+
+Regards,
+Vianney
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e0575a2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000425.html @@ -0,0 +1,56 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #107 - 1 msg

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 18 Jun 2001 12:35:43 +0200 +

+
+ +
Within Nevrax we are planning to develop clients for Linux (tested on PCs)
+and Microsoft Windows.  This said, we will be happy to provide support to
+anyone who feels like porting it to Mac OS X or any other platform.
+
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+>The game will still be available for Mac OS X,  Linux, and maybe even other
+>operating systems, correct?  After all, the user could just compile the
+>sources and buy the game at a store with the data files and play it on his
+>system of choice.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f51e9a5a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000426.html @@ -0,0 +1,130 @@ + + + + [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams... + + + + + + +

[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:22:02 +0200 +

+
+ +
+
+Network
+-------
+
+- Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers.
+  The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages
+  have been processed.
+
+- Improved responsiveness of API for naming service
+  Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming
+  service.  They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered
+  with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the
+  API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses.
+
+- The message type compression has been dissabled
+  An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that
+  were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32
+  value could be sent in place of the string.
+  This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has
+  been removed.
+  An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later.
+
+- New example for using 'login system'
+  It can be found in the samples directory
+
+- Improved performance of log messages
+  Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+  numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+
+- On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+  performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+  console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine)
+
+- New debugging aid
+  There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in
+  situation and for playing back the input to the same application running
+  stand alone.  This allows the application to be traced, etc.
+  The system will go up on CVS within the next few days
+
+
+PACS
+----
+
+- First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only
+  at the moment.
+
+
+3D
+--
+
+- The header file have moved!
+  The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their
+  respective source files)
+  The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d
+
+- System for generating object positions on the landscape completed
+  This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position
+  within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch
+  tesselation.  Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground
+  regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at.
+
+- In development...
+  Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the
+  editor for the particle system are in development.
+
+
+Audio
+-----
+
+- Work is starting on the audio library.
+  During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and
+  a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL
+  diver in the autumn.
+
+
+AI
+--
+
+- Silence from the AI team
+  The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now.  There will be
+  little news from them for a few months
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e5549606 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000427.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams... + + + + + + +

[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 20 Jun 2001 19:32:40 +0200 +

+
+ +
Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> 
+> - Improved performance of log messages
+>   Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+>   numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+> 
+> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+>   performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+>   console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine)
+
+Damn ! the preceding sentences are the french translation about the "Improved
+performance of log messages" ... sorry about that.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fe9c6a19 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000428.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ + + + + [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams... + + + + + + +

[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...

+ Alfred + alfred@mazuma.net.au
+ Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:48:35 +1000 +

+
+ +
I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it 
+automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This 
+doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server 
+has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially 
+over high latency links).
+
+Cedric Valignat wrote:
+
+> 
+> 
+> Network
+> -------
+> 
+> - Modified behaviour of service main loop to avoid exploding input buffers.
+>   The user 'update' callback is now not called until all incoming messages
+>   have been processed.
+> 
+> - Improved responsiveness of API for naming service
+>   Each service now keeps a local cache of the addressses stored by the naming
+>   service.  They are automaticaly updated whenever new services are registered
+>   with, or old services removed from, the naming service. This means that the
+>   API never needs to contact the naming service in order to find addresses.
+> 
+> - The message type compression has been dissabled
+>   An automatic system made string/ uint32 associations for message types that
+>   were repeatedly sent from one executable to another, so that the uint32
+>   value could be sent in place of the string.
+>   This system was causing problems (due to a specification problem) and has
+>   been removed.
+>   An alternative compression mechanism will be implemented later.
+> 
+> - New example for using 'login system'
+>   It can be found in the samples directory
+> 
+> - Improved performance of log messages
+>   Under Windows services are now Win32 applications which means that large
+>   numbers of log messages no longer bring the system to its knees
+> 
+> - On a transformer les services en appli Win32 pour des raisons de
+>   performance. les log sont maintenant dans un fenetre Win32 au lieu d une
+>   console "DOS" (commite la semaine prochaine)
+> 
+> - New debugging aid
+>   There is a new system for recording all of the input to a service in
+>   situation and for playing back the input to the same application running
+>   stand alone.  This allows the application to be traced, etc.
+>   The system will go up on CVS within the next few days
+> 
+> 
+> PACS
+> ----
+> 
+> - First version of path finding functional (still requires work), Windows only
+>   at the moment.
+> 
+> 
+> 3D
+> --
+> 
+> - The header file have moved!
+>   The private header files are in the /nel/src/3d tree (allong with their
+>   respective source files)
+>   The public include files are now in nel/include/nel/3d
+> 
+> - System for generating object positions on the landscape completed
+>   This system works out which patch the object is attached to and the position
+>   within the patch. It then generates a 3D world position based on the patch
+>   tesselation.  Objects using this system will stay attached to the ground
+>   regardless of the level of detail that the landsacep is displayed at.
+> 
+> - In development...
+>   Light maps for interiors, collisions (for interiors and exteriors) and the
+>   editor for the particle system are in development.
+> 
+> 
+> Audio
+> -----
+> 
+> - Work is starting on the audio library.
+>   During the next couple of months we will develop the base of the system and
+>   a Direct Sound driver implementation. We will have a look at doing an OpenAL
+>   diver in the autumn.
+> 
+> 
+> AI
+> --
+> 
+> - Silence from the AI team
+>   The AI team are plunged into product specific code right now.  There will be
+>   little news from them for a few months
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..92ec07e7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000429.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] More news from the nevrax teams... + + + + + + +

[Nel] More news from the nevrax teams...

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:10:07 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+
+> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+> over high latency links).
+
+
+Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf352cf3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000430.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:47:37 +0200 +

+
+ +
To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this:
+
+- The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means
+that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy
+service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :)
+
+- This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on
+the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service.
+(in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login
+service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory
+showing how this works)
+
+- So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game
+servers.  It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at
+address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'.
+These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the
+other services that they can talk to.
+
+- In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very
+high frequency event.
+
+I hope this helps.
+
+Daniel.
+
+
+--------------------------------------------------------------------
+Hello,
+
+
+> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+> over high latency links).
+
+
+Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bc34d337 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000431.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re:More news from the nevrax teams...

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 21 Jun 2001 19:33:30 +0200 +

+
+ +
It makes sense.
+Thank you.
+
+Thursday, June 21, 2001, 6:47:37 PM, you wrote:
+
+DM> To extend the explanation a little - the way we see things is this:
+
+DM> - The server sets for MMORPGs and the like have to be secure - that means
+DM> that any old Tom, Dick or Harry can't send a message directly to the economy
+DM> service to tell it that they've just won the lottery :)
+
+DM> - This means that the clients only have access to the front end services on
+DM> the front end servers and that they don't have access to the naming service.
+DM> (in order to connect to the front end services clients have to use the login
+DM> service as a go-between... there are examples in our samples directory
+DM> showing how this works)
+
+DM> - So - the naming service runs on a smallish LAN that connects the game
+DM> servers.  It broadcasts messages like 'the xxx service has just arrived at
+DM> address yyy' or 'the www service at address zzz has gone down/ disappeared'.
+DM> These are cached by each service to keep an up to date address book of the
+DM> other services that they can talk to.
+
+DM> - In the normal way we don't see services being started or stopped as a very
+DM> high frequency event.
+
+DM> I hope this helps.
+
+DM> Daniel.
+
+
+DM> --------------------------------------------------------------------
+DM> Hello,
+
+
+>> I have a question about the caching for the naming service. You say it
+>> automatically corrects caches when services move or are deleted. This
+>> doesn't sound very scalable, it every client querying the name server
+>> has to be contacted when something they asked about changed (especially
+>> over high latency links).
+
+
+DM> Right, but in fact, we developed the system to fit our requirement for our
+DM> game and in our system (in the shard), the naming service and all  ther
+DM> services are on a LAN, so we don't have high latency links.
+
+DM> regards,
+
+DM> Vianney Lecroart
+
+DM> _______________________________________________
+DM> Nel mailing list
+DM> Nel@nevrax.org
+DM> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cf025ff5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000432.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] .shape file format change + + + + + + +

[Nel] .shape file format change

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:08:48 +0200 +

+
+ +
A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D
+library:
+The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards
+compatible beyond versions 6.  This means that you may need to re-generate
+your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them.
+
+Regards to all
+Daniel.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dee3f322 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000433.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] .shape file format change + + + + + + +

[Nel] .shape file format change

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:55:25 +0200 +

+
+ +
Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL,
+except those at Nevrax themselves?
+
+It would be a good idea to keep the nevrax.org homepage updated with news
+like this one and with some more documentation in order to get people
+started on how the overall system works. Nowaday the only real documentation
+is the one about the Network library which is good but it's not enough.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:08 PM
+Subject: [Nel] .shape file format change
+
+
+>
+> A quick word of warning to anybody downloading a new version of the 3D
+> library:
+> The latest version of the *.shape file reading code is not backwards
+> compatible beyond versions 6.  This means that you may need to re-generate
+> your .shape files in order for the latest code to read them.
+>
+> Regards to all
+> Daniel.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aa1f0d9a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000434.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] .shape file format change + + + + + + +

[Nel] .shape file format change

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:43:05 +0200 +

+
+ +
Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+> 
+> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on NeL,
+> except those at Nevrax themselves?
+
+>From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in
+the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and
+crossp-platform development.
+
+The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs.
+However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life...
+For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a
+bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting
+the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should
+also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game
+development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know
+this is not easy.
+
+NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application
+framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will
+surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could
+also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about
+NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from
+a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job
+would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful
+audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract
+and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea
+indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile
+NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :)
+'NeL-sdk', ready to code ...
+
+Enough said, let's checkout that CVS !
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..74ff9c1d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000435.html @@ -0,0 +1,124 @@ + + + + [Nel] .shape file format change + + + + + + +

[Nel] .shape file format change

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:01:25 +0200 +

+
+ +
I was just drafting a reply to Valerio Santinelli's mail when this one
+turned up, so I guess I'm replying to both postings at once.
+
+First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and
+doesn't show what's going on at the moment.  Sorry about that.  We're just
+sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily.
+There should be a general improvement at this level soon.
+
+For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a
+loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time soon.
+I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if
+it doesn't.
+
+On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features' documents
+under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would
+be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs
+would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome although
+our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem
+with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an
+entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(.
+I'll see what I can do.
+
+Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and less
+like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied
+together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line
+shortly...
+
+For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :)
+
+Regards to all
+Daniel
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:43 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] .shape file format change
+
+
+Valerio Santinelli wrote:
+>
+> Just one personal thought.. how many people are actually developing on
+NeL,
+> except those at Nevrax themselves?
+
+>From time to time, I checkout the CVS, compile, make some introspection in
+the code ... To keep informed, I'm involved in game programming and
+crossp-platform development.
+
+The nevrax.org site is well designed and has rather comprehensive docs.
+However this looks too much as a shop's display, it's laking some life...
+For instance, we don't have a roadmap and I think the users were a
+bit lost when the whole code was redesigned these last months. Posting
+the change logs in a regular basis is part of the solution, you should
+also talk about the directions, the problem encountered in your game
+development, ask for some debates on technical questions ... I know
+this is not easy.
+
+NeL is also a consequent piece of code, and most importantly an application
+framework : you don't choose to rely on it that easily ! :) People will
+surely consider NeL more massively after Nevrax's game release. You could
+also use Snowballs to make it an easy and agreable way to learn about
+NeL : for instance, a document explaining step by step how to start from
+a simple game design to a client/server application that does the job
+would be a very valuable information that would gain you a thankful
+audience. I believe this 'tutorial' thing would help with the very abstract
+and austere look of nevrax.org. The screenshots where a very good idea
+indeed, a lot of people coulnd't affort time and competence to compile
+NeL+SnowBalls. And while we are at it, what about packaging binaries ? :)
+'NeL-sdk', ready to code ...
+
+Enough said, let's checkout that CVS !
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2e0366a1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000436.html @@ -0,0 +1,121 @@ + + + + [Nel] .shape file format change + + + + + + +

[Nel] .shape file format change

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@digi-web.it
+ Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:41:58 +0200 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Daniel Miller" <miller@nevrax.com>
+Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 4:01 PM
+
+> First for the Nevrax.org home page: the news is all badly out of date and
+> doesn't show what's going on at the moment.  Sorry about that.  We're just
+> sorting out our internal knitting so that we can post news more easily.
+> There should be a general improvement at this level soon.
+
+I spoke to Lecroart about this point. I think that keeping the site up to
+date at least once a week wouldn't require a great effort. I'm not asking
+you to report on the news page every single change that happens upon the
+codebase. Just some generic news about what's going on in order to know that
+the project is still alive.
+
+> For the roadmap - my mail of last week entitled 'a bit of news' contains a
+> loose plan for the next few months. It'll go up on the site some time
+soon.
+> I'm not sure if it contains the information you're after - please shout if
+> it doesn't.
+
+The roadmap you posted last week has been greatly appreciated on my part. :)
+I hope that you can keep sending those once every one or two weeks ;)
+
+> On the documentation side - We posted a handfull of new 'features'
+documents
+> under the different library headings earlier this week. Any feedback would
+> be very much appreciated. Beyond that we have been discussing what docs
+> would be good to write among ourselves. Any ideas are very welcome
+although
+> our time for writing dociments is a bit limitted right now!; The problem
+> with 'how to design and build an MMORPG' type docs is that they warrant an
+> entire book - and I don't have time to write a whole book right now :(.
+> I'll see what I can do.
+
+I've just looked at the new docs. I'm going to print them all and read them
+with ease later on during those lonely nights :)
+
+I'm not going to ask you to write a "how to design and build a MMORPG" book.
+That's out of our scope. If I'm evaluating NeL, it's because I am already
+designing an MMORPG and I'm evaluating a framework that would reduce the
+efforts needed to code all the game from grounds up.
+The kind of documentation that I'm looking for in the future is something
+that gives an overview of how the pieces of the NeL framework are tied
+together, and then, some more indeep documentation about how to build a new
+3D entity, how to make a connection to the server and all those things that
+explain what objects should be used and which method should be called to
+accomplish the main operations.
+
+> Snowballs is being re-written (to look more like a designed program and
+less
+> like the accumulation of a few dozen chunks of test code spaghettied
+> together). We're just starting, so our first steps 'll be up on line
+> shortly...
+
+I'm not pressing you to make a new Snowballs in no time. You've got all the
+time you need (I know that I have no influence over this, anyway :))
+I just wish that the new Snowballs will show how to write a basic server and
+a basic client, and how to code the main functions needed to make them both
+run with each other. That's enough to get started with coding upon NeL.
+
+> For a binary sdk - it's a good idea - We'll look into it. :)
+
+I agree on this one. A binary SDK would save a lot of compiling-time which
+is mainly unneeded.
+
+Having an offline version of the code documentation without going over the
+doxygen compilation time (which took a hour or maybe more on my Athlon)
+would also be useful once the code is in a fairly stable condition.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+http://www.digisoft-multimedia.it/
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..86ced898 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000437.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Thu, 28 Jun 2001 18:39:59 +0200 +

+
+ +
Slight troubles :
+
+- bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with
+'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working)
+
+- stuck here :
+
+make[4]: Entering directory `/home/zerodeux/src/nevrax/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl'
+c++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include -O3
+-I/home/zerodeux/code/pngl/STLport-0619/stlport -I./src -Wno-multichar -D_REENTRANT
+-I/usr/X11R6/include -Wp,-MD,.deps/driver_opengl.pp -c driver_opengl.cpp  -fPIC -DPIC -o
+.libs/driver_opengl.lo
+In file included from driver_opengl.cpp:48:
+driver_opengl.h:51: 3d/driver.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:52: 3d/material.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:53: 3d/shader.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.h:54: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:50: 3d/vertex_buffer.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:51: 3d/light.h: No such file or directory
+driver_opengl.cpp:52: 3d/primitive_block.h: No such file or directory
+
+The "-I./src" should be "-I../../../../src" ...
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3792a1ae --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000438.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:23:11 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hello Vincent,
+
+
+Vincent Caron wrote:
+> Slight troubles :
+> 
+> - bootstrap complains that there is no 'ChangeLog' file, adding a stub with
+> 'touch ChangeLog' makes it happy (and working)
+
+This afternoon, i commited a new bootstrap which do the touvh is the ChangeLog
+is missing ... so no more annoying complain from automake :-)
+
+> - stuck here :
+> 
+> [...]
+> 
+> The "-I./src" should be "-I../../../../src" ...
+
+I tried to setup that in the configure.in file and its works properly when
+using VPATH to compile NeL (thing that do do at nevrax to be able to have a
+debug and a release version of NeL in the same time and based on the same
+source). But that doesn't work in a "normal" compilation setup :-(
+
+I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly
+i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+PS: The external CVS will updated tonigth ...
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000439.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000439.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c770776f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000439.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling NeL from CVS

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:35:24 +0200 +

+
+ +
Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> 
+> I tried few things very quicly but without success ... i will fix it, cleanly
+> i hope, on monday ... sorry about that ...
+
+No pb, I'm just a bug hunter ... :)
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..52aec682 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000440.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] culling and transforms + + + + + + +

[Nel] culling and transforms

+ stephane.craux@voila.fr + stephane.craux@voila.fr
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:21:16 +0200 +

+
+ +
Hi ,
+I Just took a look at nevrax code recently and
+noticed that rather than transforming AABB when traversing
+the scene graph , the choice was made to transform the
+view frustum pyramid : it is much more cpu costly :
+I didn't check if this choice was relevant : is it really ?
+
+Ho , it dosn't seem to me that nel network code provides
+peer2peer networked comm : Am I right ?
+Isn't it a nice solution to very large multi-user environments ?
+
+Great job anyway 
+
+Stephane
+
+
+
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+http://mail.voila.fr
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000441.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000441.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a7a4b9ff --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000441.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ Yann Morvan + ymorvan@ens-lyon.fr
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:57:00 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
Hullo,
+I've been following the development of NEL for
+some time, I haven't been contributing due to lack
+of spare time, but I wanted to congratulate the
+Nel team for their idea and work.
+
+However, I have one major concern with the licence mecanism.
+Indeed, your idea is that what the people will pay for in
+games based upon Nel is content and not code. Saying this, you 
+implicitly state that content and code are completely distinct things.
+It is true for the most part (graphics, sounds, AI scripts, background,
+plots etc),
+but I can't convince myself that it applies to the rules of the game,
+for I can't help to think that for efficiency matters they should be 
+hardcoded in the different services. (The reason being that because of
+their level of abstraction, using a scripting mechanism would be terribly
+painful and would require a design of the services architecture allowing
+for total flexibility).
+
+I played Ultima Online for 3 years, I read the rantings of lum the mad
+daily, I read the dev boards of currently in development MMORPGs, I'm
+aware of the specificities of the "big three" and all this leads
+me to the conclusion that the rules (i.e. economy system, combat system,
+advancement system etc) are a part of the content at least as important
+as the rest regarding a game's interest (I wouldn't be willing to
+create a MMORPG if I wasn't utterly frustrated by the current trends
+in those games). 
+
+Therefore, while I totaly agree that any improvment
+or further development of Nel's features should be shared, I'd
+like you to reassure me about the protection of one's rule system
+in your design philosophy.
+
+Sorry for this long mail and for reviving this probably old and well
+debated issue :)
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8aea0e1e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000443.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:25:55 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
> Then you take the GPL game rules on the other side of the API, delete
+> them,
+> and write your totally new rules, using only the API.  Tah da, they are
+> yours, and you don't have to release your code to anyone.  The game
+> rules
+> are a separate binary (library, .o file) just like the game data.  Use
+> dynamically linked libraries if you want more separation.  (But I'm
+> pretty
+> sure that when compiling proprietary apps (see below) under GNU/Linux,
+> at
+> least some GPL code gets bound directly in.  Also, the concept of
+> "contamination" my apply, but hey, we are talking a GAME here.  Do you
+> really think anyone is going to bother suing you?  Unlikely I think. )
+
+You are totally wrong...
+Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+
+What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+
+And yes you will be sued... you are using the work of thousand of people and you 
+can't share a few stupid lines of code!?!?!?!... 
+
+> This is the same as developing proprietary apps on GNU/Linux.  GNU/Linux
+> provides a public, GPL'd API, but the app you write that interfaces to
+> that API is totally your own.
+
+You are wrong again...
+>From what I understood by a mail from FSF, the only way you have to skip GPL is:
+1) Get a License from Nel.
+2) Code the whole client under a different license. Unless the Net protocol is 
+propietary... that I think it is not the case.
+
+ 
+> (I'm pretty sure that when compiling proprietary apps under GNU/Linux,
+> at
+> least some GPL code gets bound directly in, though this doesn't seem to
+> bother anyone.  Also, the concept of "contamination" may apply, but hey,
+> we
+> are talking a GAME here.  Do you really think anyone is going to bother
+> suing you for GPL license violation?  Unlikely I think, unless you
+> really do
+> overtly violate the license. )
+
+No, it is not the same... Please ask a lawyer about it, he will explain it more 
+clearly that I can.
+
+IMO if someone violate even a bit the license i set, I will sue him.
+
+Regards.
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000444.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000444.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..002ced2e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000444.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ Yann Morvan + ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:59:51 -0400 +

+
+ +
Well, while explaining his mistakes to Brenden,
+you didn't adress my point, which is this:
+Though EQ has better graphics and better written
+network code than UO, I preffer UO because of its rules,
+which yet are hardcoded. 
+
+If it is not possible for me to use Nel
+(and share the technical improvments I may
+make) without being able to protect my set of game 
+rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel 
+library, being specific to my game), then you reduce
+content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer
+service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game
+for any gamer with an ounce of taste.
+ 
+So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+the library).
+
+	Yann
+
+P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+mere initial wealth.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..62424902 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000445.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ elijah wright + elw@stderr.org
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:26:53 -0400 (EDT) +

+
+ +
> You are totally wrong...
+> Please go and read about LIBRARY and GPL License...
+> 
+> What ever you link to a GPL app MUST be GPL. :)
+> So you have to publish your source under GPL.
+
+incorrect.  you are free to link commercial applications with GPL'ed
+libraries.  library stubs are an exclusion of sorts to the GPL, as they do
+not constitute "extending" GPL-code functionality, but simply using it as
+it is intended to be used.
+
+LGPL-licenses are a very workable alternative; perhaps the nevrax team
+could countenance dual-licensing any such "rules API" and releasing
+parallel versions (with identical code) under both licenses.
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000446.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000446.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..39beb40a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000446.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] Game Rules + + + + + + +

[Nel] Game Rules

+ John Cosby + jcosby@gscyclone.com
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:31:17 -0400 +

+
+ +
I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+
+In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of a
+game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define gameplay
+cannot.
+
+This leads to an interesting notion when looking at making a game's source
+code public.  There is no legal protection for the rules themselves - the
+graphics, user interface, etc. may be protected, though.
+
+In this fashion, Nel seems to have a business model that will work, in that
+they will be charging to play on their servers using their bandwidth.  If
+the rules of the game are defined and implemented in source code, then those
+rules may be taken and adapted or reused.  If the rules of the game are
+implemented in libraries using a public API, then those may be "protected"
+in so far as the original source and documentation is not available,
+although anyone who wants to reverse-engineer (on the basis of behavior,
+given the licenses attached to EQ and UO) can come up with their own
+implementation of what they believe the game rules to be.
+
+All because I wanted to reimplement a game Prodigy let die, years and years
+ago....
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000447.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000447.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11a67731 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000447.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ stephane.craux@voila.fr + stephane.craux@voila.fr
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:36:52 +0200 +

+
+ +
> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+> the library).
+> 
+> 	Yann
+> 
+> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+> mere initial wealth.
+
+I think u just point out here the Open Source Concept as one 
+of the biggest joke of the end of twentieth century .
+
+Software code in itself is not that important thing when GPL is concerned, 
+and beeing able to read it and extract the major concepts of a software is 
+the great thing  : u always proceed with reverse engineering , - the ever 
+coming question how do they do that - even when using software like ... 
+those which don't provide source code .
+
+That's why GPL is a bad trick to minor companies and therefore for individuals :
+releasing code shows the overall software architecture , may let u get insights 
+about hardcore coded sections and definitively unprotects the source providers .
+
+Good and Exceptionnal concepts are quickly analysed (you always need to understand
+the philosophy that drives a software architecture to be able to use it)
+So major companies will reuse GPLed code that much faster than minor entities
+- as far as software production is concerned - 
+I think that instead of promoting talents ,GPL comes with a global leverage tendance .
+
+The company I work for prohibits the reuse of GPL code and tends to minimize 
+the usage of LGPL ed source code : no need to ask a lawyer why , everybody
+will laugh at u if u ask and I think the boss is right here .
+Great support is provided to software users , but anyway , any reliable company 
+protects its sources ( Nevrax Executives don ot read that ). Please note 
+that I'm in no way related to MS . 
+Isn't GPL the biggest break to creativity we ever seen since communism died 
+out of realism ?
+
+Would GPL minds expect great french wine caves to make their 'elevage' 
+methods publically available - I love great wines - , but who ever thought 
+that we would get better wine through that way , that's not a reliable way of 
+thinking and only fools rush in .
+
+
+I don't want to minimize the brightness of people who go promoting the GPL concept ,
+(I 've the reputation to use my mind in very efficient ways though ) , but
+since I'm tightened to realism in my comapany , I totally agree with GPL detractors .
+Privacy is definitively needed or the world dies out of any will .
+
+I realize i might be removed from the list after that ,
+but I don't think it will happen .
+
+Back to development and implementation , lots of to do ahead (I wouldn't be there if not)
+
+Stephane Craux
+Stephane.Craux@voila.fr
+__________________________________________________
+Voila vous propose une boite aux lettres gratuite sur Voila Mail:
+http://mail.voila.fr
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000448.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000448.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7f7134fb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000448.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Game Rules + + + + + + +

[Nel] Game Rules

+ Yann Morvan + ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:42:11 -0400 +

+
+ +
Ok John, thanks for your answer, I think 
+I have a more realist vision now:
+rules are too abstract to be protected in themselves
+and their implementation will be reverse-engineered
+if they are popular. 
+So all you have to do is give yourself the means to ensure that your
+game will be good enough to discourage people from trying to steal
+your players. Sounds like the hard, but honest way ...
+
+And Stephane, I don't think that free software is a joke,
+you know I even think that K. Marx had good ideas ...:)
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000449.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000449.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f5a08082 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000449.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:54:03 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
> If it is not possible for me to use Nel
+> (and share the technical improvments I may
+> make) without being able to protect my set of game 
+> rules (which are in no way an improvment to the Nel 
+> library, being specific to my game), then you reduce
+> content to superficial things (graphics etc) and customer
+> service, which have never alone made the main interest of a game
+> for any gamer with an ounce of taste.
+>  
+> So please tell me if there is a solution or if I should
+> give up using Nel (but then again, please understand that
+> I totaly agree with the idea of sharing my improvments of
+> the library).
+
+I am in no way related to Nel. 
+This is just my opinion as contributor of Open Source.
+
+But I think that you should fix the ethical conflict between using "others" GPL 
+code and asking them to protect "your" right for not sharing yours. :-/
+
+> P.S. I understand the passion behind the free software notion, however,
+> in the very field of MMORPG, the inability to protect your rules -
+> the spirit of your game - leaves the opportunity to a greater
+> company, if they happen to be popular, to deprive you of the pleasure
+> of running your game by draining your playerbase by using its marketing
+> power. You then end up with the opposite of the reason why you thrive
+> for free software: people make profit over your ideas because of their
+> mere initial wealth.
+
+Once a american president, perhaps Abraham Lincon, told that a nation that give 
+away freedom to get security deserver nor freedom neither security.
+
+So this apply to Open Source, I think that freedom is soooo good that it worth 
+to risk to that to happen. And imagine that the case you told happen... you 
+would have shown world how good is Open Source that a Lame enterprise has decide 
+to use your code to make their game.
+
+Regards.
+
+[ Above is just my opinion, I don't ask you to understand it, not to agree with 
+me... ]
+
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000450.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000450.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1f024a3b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000450.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] Game Rules + + + + + + +

[Nel] Game Rules

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:27:03 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
Mensaje citado por: John Cosby <jcosby@gscyclone.com>:
+
+> I've been observing for a bit, and feel a need to jump in here.
+> 
+> In many jurisdictions (America and England that I know of), the rules of
+> a
+> game cannot be copyrighted.  Specific presentation, game boards, pieces,
+> etc. may by trademarked and copyrighted, but the rules that define
+> gameplay
+> cannot.
+
+I am not a lawer... But you say "the rules of a game cannot be copyrighted."
+Let's suppose that my computer is a game, k?
+So my programs are the rule to play/use the game... so following that logic, 
+they can't be copyright, so all that EULA as just shit :)
+
+I have heard that what you can copyright is the style of play, for example you 
+can copy right D&D, you can copyright the Critical Hit table, but you can't copy 
+right the method of throwing a dice to resolve action. :)
+
+Anyway, with all that shit about patents, i think that you will be able to 
+patent it to. :-(
+
+
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000451.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000451.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..756a76f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000451.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:45:21 -0700 +

+
+ +
By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service, we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification language in 
+their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should we release the server side code?
+
+michael warnock
+InOrbit Entertainment
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000452.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000452.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..752c22ea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000452.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:51:13 +0200 (MET DST) +

+
+ +
Mensaje citado por: Michael Warnock <michael@in-orbit.net>:
+
+> By way of introduction, I am working on a couple of games making use of
+> nel- commercial games.  In addition to selling our content and service,
+> we consider our game rules our ip and there are a couple reasons why
+> they can be implemented without violating the gpl (which i consider
+> scripture).  First of all our rules will be in a brand new specification
+> language in 
+> their own files or database tables and wont be compiled or linked at
+> all.  But should we run into speed problems for not hardcoding
+> everything, we're still not required to release anything- you can quite
+> legally use gpl'ed code in your own, unreleased programs- and why should
+> we release the server side code?
+
+I would love that you reply to this answer to me and to Nel guys that are so 
+hard working on such a good project.
+
+IMO In the same moment that you make public your server you are making it public 
+and you should release it. But I am not a lawyer.
+
+Regards,
+                  Miguel Angel Blanch Lardin
+
+nuclear cia fbi spy password code encrypt president bomb iran irak korea cuba
+Ala yihad mosad kgb free freedom human rights yugoslavia kosovo ebola dna 
+ 
+                    -- Echelon must die --
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000453.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000453.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ec846b9b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/000453.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Congratulations + concerns + + + + + + +

[Nel] Congratulations + concerns

+ Yann Morvan + ymorvan@mrl.nyu.edu
+ Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:53:33 -0400 +

+
+ +
Well, I think that the GPL, as opposed to LGPL,
+is much more strict than you think, I've taken a few minutes 
+to go and read it thoroughly and it is quite clear. 
+Besides, its very purpose is to lay legal grounds to defend
+the Free Software notion, so I think it is to be taken seriously,
+and in my opinion, it is a good thing.
+As for your scripting thing, I think we can devide rules in two
+categories:
+-global ones ("when a character dies, he returns to his binding point")
+-detailed ones ("the damage formula for the needle gun is
+log3(sqrt(z)-8x)")
+
+Like john said, the second ones will be reverse engineered (see the "big
+three", whereas the first ones are so general that on one hand the idea of
+a patent on them is ridiculous (though I think some fool as tried to
+patent the whole MMOG or even PW concept) and on the other hand their
+scripting is difficult.
+ 
+So there is no point at protecting your rules.
+
+	Yann
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11d2baab --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-June Archive by Author + + + +

2001-June Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001
+ Ending: Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
+ Messages: 37

+

+

+ Last message date: + Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
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+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e9e4f69f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-June Archive by Date + + + +

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+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9e020a7f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-June Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-June Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001
+ Ending: Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
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+

+ Last message date: + Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
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2001-June Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001
+ Ending: Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
+ Messages: 37

+

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+ Last message date: + Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
+ Archived on: Sun Jul 1 01:09:01 2001 +

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+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9e020a7f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-June/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-June Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-June Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Mon Jun 11 10:02:17 2001
+ Ending: Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
+ Messages: 37

+

+

+ Last message date: + Sat Jun 30 23:53:33 2001
+ Archived on: Sun Jul 1 01:09:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000310.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000310.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..18f83e4d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000310.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:39:53 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Wed, Feb 28, 2001 at 02:28:15PM -0800, robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> Hello,
+> 
+> I too am hoping to get snowballs running on a Debian/GNU Linux
+> machine.  I too have run into the error message mentioned in the
+> title.  I'd love to see a patch for it.  So far I've traced it down to
+> a call to setupTexture which is exiting the program.  My C++ skills
+> are not strong enough to hunt this down any further.
+cut'n'paste from one of my previous emails :) :
+        the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about
+          being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+          it down to some of the texture loading code in
+          code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse 
+          texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+          the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked   
+          out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+          late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+          and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+If you still can't get it to work, give me an email and I can probably 
+send you a patch. (This code itself looks like it's correct behaviour,
+the problem is with whatever's feeding this with files to load. My 'fix'
+is a workaround until i get the time to trace where it's getting fed
+from. )
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000312.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000312.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..524f462f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000312.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compile error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compile error

+ nel@elwar.com + nel@elwar.com
+ Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:49:50 -0500 +

+
+ +
I've been trying to get the client to compile and I've gotten through
+quite a bit as far as installing freetype and stlport and getting
+a satisfied configuration. I'm running it on Linux but I get the
+following error:
+
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/nel/code/nel/include -I/home/nel/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o sight.o lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/nel/code/nel/lib -L/home/nel/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+
+						Elwar
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000313.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000313.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c57e36c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000313.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ + + + + [Nel] STLPort... + + + + + + +

[Nel] STLPort...

+ Brenden Towey + brenden@rcsis.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:45:35 -0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Ok, first post.  Sorry I didn't go through the archives, I'm just lazy =
+that way.
+
+What is STLPort and where do I get it?  www.stlport.org is not found by =
+google (so it therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the =
+compile time #error in nl_types.h:
+#  error "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+
+Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to the command line or is there an =
+additional component that I need to get?
+
+Thanks for any help you can give!
+
+Brenden
+non-uber NeL lurker
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
Ok, first post.  Sorry I didn't =
+go through=20
+the archives, I'm just lazy that way.

+
 

+
What is STLPort and where do I get =
+it?  www.stlport.org is not found by =
+google (so it=20
+therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the compile =
+time=20
+#error in nl_types.h:

+
#  error "You need STLPort =
+to compile=20
+this project (www.sltport.org)"

+
 

+
Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to =
+the command=20
+line or is there an additional component that I need to =
+get?

+
 

+
Thanks for any help you can =
+give!

+
 

+
Brenden

+
non-uber NeL =
+lurker

+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0A1CF.C80A6300--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000315.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000315.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fdb24fb0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000315.html @@ -0,0 +1,174 @@ + + + + [Nel] Network Connections + + + + + + +

[Nel] Network Connections

+ Tom wright + thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:48:29 -0000 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Guys/Gals,
+
+Having followed your arguements so far, i though i would chuck in my 2 p =
+worth.
+
+1) i think you are going to find it very difficult to scale a server to =
+5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme unless its a BIG server. =
+ Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.  But this is just my =
+opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.
+
+2) On windows NT/2k, using async sockets with events is a very efficent =
+way of handling socket comms, and its quite easy to demultiplex the =
+events to work out which socket caused the event.  I would recommend =
+this route, as one thread could then wait for events to be generated on =
+say 30 sockets and then take appropriate action.  unfortunately i can =
+not tell you how well this is going to scale :-( Just look up WSAEvents =
+for READ, SEND and CLOSE.  It does make your sending more entertaining =
+however :-)
+
+3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a much =
+lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+
+4) Some OS's have limits to the size of the array to select, Windows is =
+one of them, typical values seem to be 64.  However using values this =
+large, you are going to spend time thrashing the array looking for the =
+source of the select, with events this is much easier and quicker, tho =
+not linux compatible.  Wrapping up the comms like this specific to each =
+platform is not going to be to hard, just code to a common interface.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+PS A binary of the next release for windows would be nice, takes HOURS =
+to build :-)
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Guys/Gals,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Having followed your arguements so far, =
+i though i=20
+would chuck in my 2 p worth.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) i think you are going to find it =
+very difficult=20
+to scale a server to 5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme =
+unless its=20
+a BIG server.&nbsp; Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.&nbsp; =
+But=20
+this is just my opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) On windows NT/2k, using async =
+sockets with=20
+events is a very efficent way of handling socket comms, and its quite =
+easy to=20
+demultiplex the events to work out which socket caused the event.&nbsp; =
+I would=20
+recommend this route, as one thread could then wait for events to be =
+generated=20
+on say 30 sockets and then take appropriate action.&nbsp; unfortunately =
+i can=20
+not tell you how&nbsp;well this is going to scale :-( Just look up =
+WSAEvents for=20
+READ, SEND and CLOSE.&nbsp; It does make your sending more entertaining =
+however=20
+:-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Windows did support something called =
+micro=20
+threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&nbsp; These=20
+( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( =
+as in=20
+IIS ).&nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some useful=20
+results.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4) Some OS's have limits to the size of =
+the array=20
+to select, Windows is one of them, typical values seem to be 64.&nbsp; =
+However=20
+using values this large, you are going to spend time thrashing the array =
+looking=20
+for the source of the select, with events this is much easier and =
+quicker, tho=20
+not linux compatible.&nbsp; Wrapping up the comms like this specific to =
+each=20
+platform is not going to be to hard, just code to a common=20
+interface.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>PS A binary of the next release for =
+windows would=20
+be nice, takes HOURS to build :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C0A22C.632195A0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000316.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000316.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b6f93e2c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000316.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:33:07 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:52:21AM +0100, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> According to Leighton Haynes:
+> > I'm not sure if this is a really important issue right now. As many
+> > people have noted, premature optimization is the source of all evil. 
+> 
+> It is somewhat important. There are optimisations that can be done further,
+> but there are also fundamental design issues that reflect how everything
+> else in the server code has to be written.
+> 
+> You do not program an event-driven system like you would on a thread-based
+> system. Converting from one model to another would be horribly painful,
+> which is why the "right" one has to be selected. Once we pick one, we'll
+> have to stick by it, and the more code is produced under a model, the
+> 
+> Which is why the decision about this was deferred until it can no longer
+> be truly avoided.
+
+*ponder*
+
+I can't see the fundamental difference between an event-driven and
+a thread-based model. In an event-driven model , some central arbiter
+gets the input, grabs the data representing the 'entity', processes it, 
+and sends a reply. In a thread-based model, each entitiy is a thread,
+the entity receives a message , processes it, and sends a reply. 
+The fundamental differences, are in the message addressing, and 
+the context switching. 
+
+What are the issues here? So far I've seen only discussion of
+how many threads we can handle, which doesn't seem to be the 
+central issue. What we really need, is a list of the requirements
+for this particular sub-system. (Perhaps they exist somewhere, 
+but I haven't seen them).
+
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000317.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000317.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c94a06de --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000317.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Nel] Network Connections + + + + + + +

[Nel] Network Connections

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:46:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Tom wright:
+> 1) i think you are going to find it very difficult to scale a server
+> to 5000 concurrent users, using any kind of scheme unless its a BIG
+> server.  Look at EQ currently, they struggle with 2000.  But this is
+> just my opinion :-) so feel free to ignore it.
+
+EQ doesn't struggle with 2000 because of server size. A "server" on EQ
+consists (to the best of my knowledge) of about 15 or so quadriprocessor
+RISC boards, with all nearly 100 zones (now) spread of these. They
+struggle not because the server can't handle the load, but because the
+content of the game can't handle the load (i.e. problems stem not from
+too many people for CPU time, they stem from too many people for not
+enough spawns).
+
+No MMOG so far can use a single server, no matter how big it is. What
+we term server, or shard, or whatever, typical technical litterature
+terms 'cluster'. And using the right architecture can make a cluster
+very large, until it collapses not from load, but when adding a new
+note consumes more CPU spent in inter-node communications than the node
+itself adds to the whole.
+
+> 2) On windows NT/2k, using async sockets with events is...
+...
+> 3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had...
+
+All these optimisation techniques are nice. But they're heavily dependent
+on Windows itself. We do want our server to run under windows, for debugging
+purpose (and for the odd amateur out there who would want to run a
+smallish server on his home machine), but we clearly do NOT intend our
+production servers to run under windows.
+
+Which is why we're looking at a reasonably portable architecture, and why
+these suggestions, as nice as they are, cannot be used, because they tie
+too much the architecture :(
+
+> PS A binary of the next release for windows would be nice, takes HOURS to build :-)
+
+As much as people would love one, it's right now a "marketing" decision,
+so that we attract people that really want to look at the source, and not
+just people who want to look at the finished product without caring about
+how it's done :)
+
+(However, some Nevrax people, and maybe external people as well, have set
+ up binary archives on their own private home pages. Ask, and you'll
+ probably find it. But officially, we do not support or provide these
+ releases. Yet)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000318.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000318.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6c279c15 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000318.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] STLPort... + + + + + + +

[Nel] STLPort...

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:26:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hope you'll find STL here
+http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/
+
+Thursday, March 01, 2001, 6:45:35 AM, you wrote:
+
+BT> Ok, first post.  Sorry I didn't go through the archives, I'm just lazy that way.
+
+BT> What is STLPort and where do I get it?  www.stlport.org is not found by google (so it therefore can't exist ;-).  I'm of course referring to the compile time #error in nl_types.h:
+BT> #  error "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+
+BT> Do I just add -D__SGI_STL_PORT to the command line or is there an additional component that I need to get?
+
+BT> Thanks for any help you can give!
+
+BT> Brenden
+BT> non-uber NeL lurker
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000319.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000319.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0e6f93d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000319.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:34:59 +0100 +

+
+ +
+Wednesday, February 28, 2001, 11:13:12 PM, you wrote:
+
+BH> * Zane <zane@supernova.org> [010228 19:17]:
+>> ----- Original Message -----
+>> From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+>> Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+>> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+>> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+>> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+>> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+>> already implemented.
+I think what Slashdot.org is a right place to ask our "Network Engine"
+question. I hope it'll gave us a lot useful ideas.
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000321.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000321.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..12220818 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000321.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compile error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compile error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:26:11 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi, 
+
+> c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/nel/code/nel/include -I/home/nel/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o shards_list_interface.o zone_manager.o zone_search.o sight.o lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/nel/code/nel/lib -L/home/nel/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+> /usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+> 
+> I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+
+It seems that the compiler cannot find the libnelnet.so file.
+
+You compile it as if the NeL instalation prefix (/usr/local/ by default or
+what you defined when calling the configure script) is /home/nel/code/nel
+which seems to be the CVS directory.
+
+Could you check were is placed the libnelnet.so file ?
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000322.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000322.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..38a10346 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000322.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] STLPort... + + + + + + +

[Nel] STLPort...

+ Brenden Towey + brenden@rcsis.com
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 07:41:11 -0800 +

+
+ +
-----Original Message-----
+From: Valignat Cedric <valignat@nevrax.com>
+
+>   <URL:http://www.stlport.org/>
+
+
+Thanks so much!  Um, the #error in types_nl.h has this misspelled as
+"www.sltport.org" (note that the "L" and the "T" are transposed).  It might
+prevent future confusion if this was corrected.  I really wasn't kidding
+when I said that Google had no idea what this was. :-)
+
+Fast, accurate help on the mailing list for a newbie, can't ask for better
+than that...
+
+Brenden
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000324.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000324.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8e23f7c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000324.html @@ -0,0 +1,141 @@ + + + + [Nel] Network Connections + + + + + + +

[Nel] Network Connections

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:38:16 -0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+  3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a =
+much lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+I come from a nix background, but I wouldn't doubt that windows also has =
+had some implementation of microthreads.  The best current way to use =
+microthreads afaik is stackless python (stackless.org) which I (as the =
+game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of the game my =
+company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel library.  =
+Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming concept called =
+continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a program from =
+any given point- that includes it's state and any branch of code it =
+might follow from there.  Stackless Python provides a way to reference =
+continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a =
+neat trick u should read about).  Writing microthreads is as simple as =
+defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same time with a =
+special call- they are executed in parralel within the same thread and =
+each requires almost no overhead above what they would if executed in =
+serial.  EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also plans to use stackless as the =
+basis for their game mechanics.  I dont have any benchmarks on its =
+network performance or scalability, but I plan to test it soon.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Windows did support something =
+called micro=20
+  threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&nbsp;=20
+  These ( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for =
+scalable IO (=20
+  as in IIS ).&nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some useful=20
+  results.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I come from a nix background, but I =
+wouldn't doubt=20
+that windows also has had some implementation of microthreads.&nbsp; The =
+best=20
+current way to use microthreads afaik is stackless python =
+(stackless.org) which=20
+I (as the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of =
+the game=20
+my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel =
+library.&nbsp;=20
+Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming concept called=20
+continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a program from =
+any given=20
+point- that includes it's state and any branch of code it might follow =
+from=20
+there.&nbsp; Stackless Python provides a way to reference continuations- =
+which=20
+requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a neat trick u should =
+read=20
+about).&nbsp; Writing microthreads is as simple as defining a bunch of =
+functions=20
+and calling them at the same time with a special call- they are executed =
+in=20
+parralel within the same thread and each requires almost no overhead =
+above what=20
+they would if executed in serial.&nbsp; EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also =
+plans to=20
+use stackless as the basis for their game mechanics.&nbsp; I dont have =
+any=20
+benchmarks on its network performance or scalability, but I plan to test =
+it=20
+soon.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Warnock</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In-Orbit =
+Entertainment</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C0A25D.40462150--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000325.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000325.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2b1cdbfb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000325.html @@ -0,0 +1,205 @@ + + + + [Nel] Network Connections + + + + + + +

[Nel] Network Connections

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Thu, 1 Mar 2001 15:41:15 -0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+oops:)
+
+It is actually http://www.stackless.com=20
+
+Here are more relavent urls:
+http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html
+http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp
+http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/
+
+We hope to use the MIT exokernel the last url refers to as a stripped =
+down os for the servers.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Michael Warnock=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 2:38 PM
+  Subject: Re: [Nel] Network Connections
+
+
+    3) Windows did support something called micro threads, which had a =
+much lower over head than traditional threads.  These ( if i remember =
+correctly ) were designed specifically for scalable IO ( as in IIS ).  =
+Some time looking here may well yield some useful results.
+  I come from a nix background, but I wouldn't doubt that windows also =
+has had some implementation of microthreads.  The best current way to =
+use microthreads afaik is stackless python (stackless.org) which I (as =
+the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server side of the =
+game my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the Nel =
+library.  Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten programming =
+concept called continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of a =
+program from any given point- that includes it's state and any branch of =
+code it might follow from there.  Stackless Python provides a way to =
+reference continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for =
+framing(a neat trick u should read about).  Writing microthreads is as =
+simple as defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same =
+time with a special call- they are executed in parralel within the same =
+thread and each requires almost no overhead above what they would if =
+executed in serial.  EVE (a commercial mmorpg) also plans to use =
+stackless as the basis for their game mechanics.  I dont have any =
+benchmarks on its network performance or scalability, but I plan to test =
+it soon.
+
+  Michael Warnock
+  In-Orbit Entertainment
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>oops:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is actually <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.stackless.com">http://www.stackless.com</A> =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here are more relavent =
+urls:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://world.std.com/~wware/uthread.html">http://world.std.com/~w=
+ware/uthread.html</A><BR><A=20
+href=3D"http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_08.asp">http://www.eve-online.c=
+om/faq/faq_08.asp</A><BR><A=20
+href=3D"http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/">http://pdos.lcs.mit.edu/exo/</A><BR=
+></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We hope to use the MIT exokernel the =
+last url=20
+refers to as a stripped down os for the servers.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Warnock</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In-Orbit Entertainment</DIV></FONT>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A href=3D"mailto:michael@in-orbit.net" =
+title=3Dmichael@in-orbit.net>Michael=20
+  Warnock</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
+href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org"=20
+  title=3Dnel@nevrax.org>nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 01, 2001 =
+2:38=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Nel] Network=20
+  Connections</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
+  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3) Windows did support something =
+called micro=20
+    threads, which had a much lower over head than traditional =
+threads.&nbsp;=20
+    These ( if i remember correctly ) were designed specifically for =
+scalable IO=20
+    ( as in IIS ).&nbsp; Some time looking here may well yield some =
+useful=20
+    results.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I come from a nix background, but I =
+wouldn't=20
+  doubt that windows also has had some implementation of =
+microthreads.&nbsp; The=20
+  best current way to use microthreads afaik is stackless python =
+(stackless.org)=20
+  which I (as the game mechanics programmer) plan to use on the server =
+side of=20
+  the game my company (In-Orbit Entertainment) is working on using the =
+Nel=20
+  library.&nbsp; Microthreads use an old and mostly forgotten =
+programming=20
+  concept called continuations- a continuation is, in brief, the rest of =
+a=20
+  program from any given point- that includes it's state and any branch =
+of code=20
+  it might follow from there.&nbsp; Stackless Python provides a way to =
+reference=20
+  continuations- which requires it not to use the C stack for framing(a =
+neat=20
+  trick u should read about).&nbsp; Writing microthreads is as simple as =
+
+  defining a bunch of functions and calling them at the same time with a =
+special=20
+  call- they are executed in parralel within the same thread and each =
+requires=20
+  almost no overhead above what they would if executed in serial.&nbsp; =
+EVE (a=20
+  commercial mmorpg) also plans to use stackless as the basis for their =
+game=20
+  mechanics.&nbsp; I dont have any benchmarks on its network performance =
+or=20
+  scalability, but I plan to test it soon.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael Warnock</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In-Orbit=20
+Entertainment</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C0A266.0D10C2A0--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000326.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000326.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..798cf05c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000326.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compile error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compile error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 2 Mar 2001 12:50:37 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello, 
+
+nel@elwar.com wrote:
+>
+> [...]
+> /usr/local/i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lnelnet
+> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+> 
+> I was doing pretty well up until then. Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
+
+Where did you installed NeL when you execute the command 'make install' ? 
+
+It's seems that the compiler is trying to get it from 
+'/home/nel/code/nel/include' and '/home/nel/code/nel/lib' but it seems
+that's the source (CVS) directory ... am i right ? :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000327.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000327.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8b1a4d72 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000327.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] STLPort... + + + + + + +

[Nel] STLPort...

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:14:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
Brenden Towey wrote:
+> 
+> Thanks so much!  Um, the #error in types_nl.h has this misspelled as
+> "www.sltport.org" (note that the "L" and the "T" are transposed).  It might
+> prevent future confusion if this was corrected.  I really wasn't kidding
+> when I said that Google had no idea what this was. :-)
+
+Rhhaaa, shame on me. I understood that you were killing but i didn't notice
+the mispelling, so i had some difficulties to understand the joke ... doh ! :o)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000328.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000328.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e1c15877 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000328.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled + + + + + + +

[Nel] Screenshot selection unveiled

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:09:12 +0100 +

+
+ +
We have made some screenshots internally, while checking various parts
+of the Snowballs sample game. After much debate, we've selecte a few
+that we think are pretty representative.
+
+Note that these shots are representative of the technology demo, and do
+not reflect our planned game or gameplay.
+
+You may find these 12 screenshots here:
+	http://www.nevrax.org/screenshots/
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000329.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000329.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f5379277 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000329.html @@ -0,0 +1,148 @@ + + + + [Nel] Network Connections + + + + + + +

[Nel] Network Connections

+ Tom wright + thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com
+ Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:09:22 -0000 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Michael,
+
+yeah i have played about with python and read with interest the stackles =
+stuff.  Some neat technology. However as good as python is for rapid =
+developement it has one VERY serious drawback, and thats its speed.  Now =
+before i get flamed, I know stackless is a bit faster that normal 2.0 =
+python but its still REALLY REALLY slow compared to Java ( which is not =
+exactly a speed demon ) and of course c/c++.  Would u not be better =
+using your own custom language for inserver scripting that you can tweak =
+to the nth degree ??  Problem with embedding python is because its a =
+general purpose language you take all the speed compromises that that =
+entails, decisons made by some one else without knowledge in your =
+domain.  It takes more effort of course but could well yield better =
+results.  How about inventing a new language specifically for MMORGS :-)
+
+BTW i dont think the microthreads implementation on windows is the same =
+concept as python, they are simply light threads with less start =
+up/shutdown and context switching over head.  They dont have anything to =
+do with continuations ala python ( as far as i am aware ).
+
+However it sounds like the deployment platform is some custom unix box, =
+so its all academic :-) =20
+
+BTW2 Have you looked at ACE by Doug Schmidt at Washington Uni ??  That =
+would provide u with common comms layer on many unix and windows =
+platforms.  Its a nice piece of kit.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Michael,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>yeah i have played about with python =
+and read with=20
+interest the stackles stuff.&nbsp; Some neat technology. However as good =
+as=20
+python is for rapid developement it has one VERY serious drawback, and =
+thats its=20
+speed.&nbsp; Now before i get flamed, I know stackless is a bit faster =
+that=20
+normal 2.0 python but its still REALLY REALLY slow compared to Java ( =
+which is=20
+not exactly a speed demon ) and of course c/c++.&nbsp; Would u not be =
+better=20
+using your own custom language for inserver scripting that you can tweak =
+to the=20
+nth degree ??&nbsp; Problem with embedding python is because its a =
+general=20
+purpose language you take all the speed compromises that that entails, =
+decisons=20
+made by some one else without knowledge in your domain.&nbsp; It takes =
+more=20
+effort of course but could well yield better results.&nbsp; How about =
+inventing=20
+a new language specifically for MMORGS :-)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>BTW i dont think the microthreads =
+implementation on=20
+windows is the same concept as python, they are simply light threads =
+with less=20
+start up/shutdown and context switching over head.&nbsp; They dont have =
+anything=20
+to do with continuations ala python ( as far as i am aware =
+).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>However it sounds like the deployment =
+platform is=20
+some custom unix box, so its all academic :-)&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>BTW2 Have you looked at ACE by Doug =
+Schmidt at=20
+Washington Uni ??&nbsp; That would provide u with common comms layer on =
+many=20
+unix and windows platforms.&nbsp; Its a nice piece of kit.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tom</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C0A343.E845D1C0--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000331.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000331.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6bdb3c7d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000331.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Network Connections + + + + + + +

[Nel] Network Connections

+ Charles Dupont + duponc@rpi.edu
+ Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:18:32 -0500 +

+
+ +
When you talk about network connections how are they going to work?  For 
+example when say a player wants to find out what he/she has in his 
+inivitroy how does the client get this information.  Does the client 
+talk deriectly to the items sever or does it first contact another 
+server, that it would contact for every data request, and which then 
+goes asks the items server for the information which the server passes 
+back to the client.  If it is the case that there is  a gateway server 
+that talks to the data servers not the client talks directly to the data 
+servers.  Why does there have to be a single gateway server.  You could 
+set it up so that the gateways only had to control the max amount of 
+connections the server can handel.  To do this you would need a another 
+server to handle incomming connections and pass them off to the gateway 
+servers.  Of course this system could bog down the intercluster network, 
+but you would think that the total amount of trafic would not change.  
+If it is the other way then this won't work. i.e. client talks directly  
+to items server.
+
+
+Charles Dupont
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000332.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000332.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0f85b158 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000332.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Screenshots + + + + + + +

[Nel] Screenshots

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Fri, 2 Mar 2001 17:38:36 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I would like to post some of these screen shots up on my game's public =
+information site... May I?  Also, must the "NeL" logo appear in them?
+
+TIA.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I would like to post some of these screen shots up =
+on my=20
+game's public information site... May I?&nbsp; Also, must the "NeL" logo =
+appear=20
+in them?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>TIA.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C0A33F.9C4F8C60--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000333.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000333.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7cd2a1d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000333.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some misc questions + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some misc questions

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:15:43 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL be released to the =
+public?
+2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, say... Python) that =
+will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for and uses?  =
+If so, what are they, and where can we get them?
+3) Is there anything in the works as far as "world creation =
+documentation" goes?  Such as "this is how you structure your data", and =
+"this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to work in =
+your game."?  Or will we need to just kinda figure it out ourselves... =
+:)
+4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered already... but when is the =
+projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?  (If there's any at =
+all)...
+
+TIA
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL =
+be=20
+released to the public?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, =
+say...=20
+Python) that will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for =
+and=20
+uses?&nbsp; If so, what are they, and where can we get =
+them?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>3) Is there anything in the works as far =
+as&nbsp;"world=20
+creation documentation" goes?&nbsp; Such as "this is how you structure =
+your=20
+data", and "this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to =
+work in=20
+your game."?&nbsp; Or will we need to just kinda figure it out =
+ourselves...=20
+:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered =
+already... but=20
+when is the projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?&nbsp; (If =
+there's=20
+any at all)...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>TIA</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A344.CBBF7640--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000334.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000334.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..784c79da --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000334.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries + + + + + + +

[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Sat, 3 Mar 2001 01:05:59 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Hello again folks,
+
+First, I did read that whole message about 'data/', but I couldn't
+figure out what the fix was.  I admit my C++ skills are a lacking, but
+a patch would have been great.  It doesn't matter now, because I can't
+build the latest CVS.
+
+Up until today I couldn't build NeL at all due to library problems, I
+think.  When I finally got it to build the client wouldn't build.
+
+So currently I'm getting:
+
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::CMode::CMode(unsigned short, unsigned short, unsigned char, bool)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::CDriverUser::convMat(NL3D::UMaterial &)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D11(void)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver::setMatrixMode2D43(void)'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver virtual table'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info node'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info function'
+
+... which looks to me like more of that interface rearrangement stuff,
+and I have no idea what to do about it.
+
+As someone who would very much like to help either with testing, or
+even coding, I'd like to request that developers make CVS log entries
+a little more verbose then 'grrrrr', 'added file' or 'BUG: makefile'.
+I know you guys know what you're doing, and I can usually get some
+idea of what's going on looking at the diffs, but if 'grrrr' was 'path
+change (3d/tmp)', and 'added file' mentioned the filename, and 'BUG:
+makefile' said 'BUG: added frustrum.ccp', it would make it a lot
+easier for me to get my bearings and tracedown whether errors are due
+to my build environment, or due to some SNAFU in France, or whatever.
+It would also make it less likely that I would need to look at the
+diff at all.
+
+I love the screenshots, and I can't wait to try this stuff out on my
+own machine.  
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000336.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000336.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..64cafbc0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000336.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries + + + + + + +

[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries

+ Lionel Berenguier + berenguier@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:19:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: <robert@paradox.got.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:05 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries
+
+
+> Hello again folks,
+>
+> As someone who would very much like to help either with testing, or
+> even coding, I'd like to request that developers make CVS log entries
+> a little more verbose then 'grrrrr', 'added file' or 'BUG: makefile'.
+> I know you guys know what you're doing, and I can usually get some
+> idea of what's going on looking at the diffs, but if 'grrrr' was 'path
+> change (3d/tmp)', and 'added file' mentioned the filename, and 'BUG:
+
+
+Ok. I apologize. Actually, the files were moved 2 times, and I just realize
+that just the last log is valid.
+
+Sorry...
+
+
+Lionel Berenguier.
+---
+3d programmer / nevrax.com
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000337.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000337.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c245f586 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000337.html @@ -0,0 +1,161 @@ + + + + [Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:41:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+In fact, new_message.cpp shouldn't be on the nel directory. so you could
+delete new_message.* and remove the file from the makefile or from the .dsp.
+I commit the modification but you must wait the night to get the fix.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "papakane" <adam@papakane.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:20 AM
+Subject: [Nel] problems compiling nel/net/new_message.h
+
+
+>
+> I've been trying to compile snowballs.exe for the past few days. I really
+> don't know C++ all that well and certainly don't know much about VisualC++
+> so I have a feeling I may be over my head but I am dying to get involved
+in
+> this project and I would love to play snowballs.exe. So any help would be
+> greatly appreciated.
+>
+> I am using MS Visual C++ on Windows 2000, 3dfx voodoo3 and I am compiling
+a
+> current CVS version of the code base.
+>
+> I get the following compile time errors when I build nlnet_rd.lib
+>
+> --------------------Configuration: net - Win32
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> Compiling...
+> new_message.cpp
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+> C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+> C2629: unexpected 'class NLNET::CNewMessage ('
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(48) : error
+> C2334: unexpected token(s) preceding ':'; skipping apparent function body
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error
+> C2146: syntax error : missing ',' before identifier 'id'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(71) : error
+> C2061: syntax error : identifier 'id'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+> C2039: 'CStringIdArray' : is not a member of 'NLMISC'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+> C2143: syntax error : missing ';' before '*'
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(117) : error
+> C2501: '_SIDA' : missing storage-class or type specifiers
+> Error executing cl.exe.
+>
+> nlnet_rd.lib - 8 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+>
+> I took the liberty of adding the following line to new_message.h
+> #include "nel/misc/string_id_array.h"
+> since that's where CStringArray is defined.  and got some more syntax
+> errors on line 71.
+>
+> line 71 reads:
+>          void setType (const TStringId id)
+> I made the following changes to get rid of the syntax errors. ( why? I
+> am  not really sure. it just seemed the right thing to do ;-) )
+>          void setType (const NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id)
+>
+> and now I get the following error that I can't fix.
+>
+> C:\SNOWBALLS_SRC_0_2\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/net/new_message.h(100) : error
+> C2662: 'getId' : cannot convert 'this' pointer from 'const class
+> NLMISC::CStringIdArray' to 'class NLMISC::CStringIdArray &'
+>          Conversion loses qualifiers
+>
+> line 100 reads as follows :
+>            NLMISC::CStringIdArray::TStringId id = _SIDA->getId (name);
+>
+> _SIDA is defined as follows
+>
+> private:
+> const NLMISC::CStringIdArray *_SIDA;
+>
+> Does any one have any idea what's wrong or even if I am on the right
+track?
+>
+> -Ishmael (and Adam)
+>
+> p.s. I compiled the version found in snowballs_src_0_2.zip downloaded from
+> nevrax.org. I got everything compiled but then when I load the game and
+> connect to the public server I get a white screen that stays white and the
+> game never loads.
+>
+> I decided to get the updated CVS version of the code base to see if it
+> works better.
+>
+> p.p.s. I was also getting compile time errors in the AI module (or is it
+> IA, the vcc workspace keeps calling it IA wihch is very confusing) but it
+> doesn't seem like snowballs uses the ai module. Is this correct?
+>
+> ______________________________________________________
+> Ga-ming-o (n): A collection of game programming examples for lingo.
+> http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=8974 <-- bugbase
+> http://www.gamingo.com   <-- homepage
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000338.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000338.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eff91668 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000338.html @@ -0,0 +1,164 @@ + + + + [Nel] newbies about packet schema + + + + + + +

[Nel] newbies about packet schema

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:05:42 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I have read artice for winsock program,=20
+if folling article is true, that snow ball netowrk driver , should =
+change it's packet schema.
+any one can give me suggect ?
+
+original from =
+http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediate.html#d=
+isable-nagle
+Inexperienced Winsockers usually try disabling the Nagle algorithm when =
+they are trying to impose some kind of packet scheme on a TCP data =
+stream. That is, they want to be able to send, say, two packets, one 40 =
+bytes and the other 60, and have the receiver get a 40-byte packet =
+followed by a separate 60-byte packet. (With the Nagle algorithm =
+enabled, TCP will often coalesce these two packets into a single 100 =
+byte packet.) Unfortunately, this is futile, for the following reasons:
+
+  1.. Even if the sender manages to send its packets individually, the =
+receiving TCP/IP stack may still coalesce the received packets into a =
+single packet. This can happen any time the sender can send data faster =
+than the receiver can deal with it.=20
+  2.. Winsock Layered Service Providers (LSPs) may coalesce or fragment =
+stream data, especially LSPs that modify the data as it passes.=20
+  3.. Turning off the Nagle algorithm in a client program will not =
+affect the way that the server sends packets, and vice versa.=20
+  4.. Routers and other intermediaries on the network can fragment =
+packets, and there is no guarantee of "proper" reassembly with stream =
+protocols.=20
+  5.. If packet arrives that is larger than the available space in the =
+stack's buffers, it may fragment a packet, queuing up as many bytes as =
+it has buffer space for and discarding the rest. (The remote peer will =
+resend the remaining data later.)=20
+  6.. Winsock is not required to give you all the data it has queued on =
+a socket even if your recv() call gave Winsock enough buffer space. It =
+may require several calls to get all the data queued on a socket.=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have read artice for winsock program, =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>if folling article is true, that snow ball netowrk =
+driver ,=20
+should change it's packet schema.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>any one can give me suggect ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>original from <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=
+e.html#disable-nagle">http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winso=
+ck/intermediate.html#disable-nagle</A></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>
+<P>Inexperienced Winsockers usually try disabling the Nagle algorithm =
+when they=20
+are trying to impose some kind of <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/intermediat=
+e.html#packetscheme">packet=20
+scheme</A> on a TCP data stream. That is, they want to be able to send, =
+say, two=20
+packets, one 40 bytes and the other 60, and have the receiver get a =
+40-byte=20
+packet followed by a separate 60-byte packet. (With the Nagle algorithm =
+enabled,=20
+TCP will often coalesce these two packets into a single 100 byte =
+packet.)=20
+Unfortunately, this is futile, for the following reasons:</P>
+<OL>
+  <LI>Even if the sender manages to send its packets individually, the =
+receiving=20
+  TCP/IP stack may still coalesce the received packets into a single =
+packet.=20
+  This can happen any time the sender can send data faster than the =
+receiver can=20
+  deal with it.=20
+  <LI>Winsock Layered Service Providers (LSPs) may coalesce or fragment =
+stream=20
+  data, especially LSPs that modify the data as it passes.=20
+  <LI>Turning off the Nagle algorithm in a client program will not =
+affect the=20
+  way that the server sends packets, and vice versa.=20
+  <LI>Routers and other intermediaries on the network can fragment =
+packets, and=20
+  there is no guarantee of "proper" reassembly with stream protocols.=20
+  <LI>If packet arrives that is larger than the available space in the =
+stack's=20
+  buffers, it may fragment a packet, queuing up as many bytes as it has =
+buffer=20
+  space for and discarding the rest. (The remote peer will resend the =
+remaining=20
+  data later.)=20
+  <LI>Winsock is not required to give you all the data it has queued on =
+a socket=20
+  even if your <CODE>recv()</CODE> call gave Winsock enough buffer =
+space. It may=20
+  require several calls to get all the data queued on a socket.=20
+</LI></OL></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C0A635.C4605920--
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000339.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000339.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4e3fe46e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000339.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile.cpp + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile.cpp

+ nel@elwar.com + nel@elwar.com
+ Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:39:40 -0500 +

+
+ +
After finally getting the client to compile and run I ran into the problem
+of the itsalive.nevrax.org site not being alive. So I figured I'd compile the
+server on my system. 
+First problem I had with the agent_service directory is it was searching for
+my Python.h file which I finally had to explicetly include the path in the
+Makefile. The final problem was that there's no compile.cpp in the agent_service
+directory and the Makefile is trying to create the compile.o
+I'll check out the .gz version to see if there's a compile.cpp in there.
+
+							Elwar
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000340.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000340.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eb44389b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000340.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile.cpp + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile.cpp

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:22:40 -0800 +

+
+ +
The agent service isnt necessary to run the server.  You only needed the
+naming service, log service, login service and moves service until
+yesterday- now u have to run the time service too, which hasn't been running
+well for me in the last few weeks, however, an older copy of it works just
+fine.
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment
+No matter where you go, &this.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000341.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000341.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5fde15af --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000341.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile.cpp + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile.cpp

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:35:31 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Michael,
+
+> yesterday- now u have to run the time service too, which hasn't been
+running
+> well for me in the last few weeks, however, an older copy of it works just
+
+Could you, please, explain me what is the problem about the time service?
+Here, it seems to work fine on windows 2000 and on redhat 7 linux.
+
+Vianney
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000343.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000343.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..659989aa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000343.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries + + + + + + +

[Nel] Volatile source, cryptic CVS log entries

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:30:14 +0100 +

+
+ +
robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> 
+> First, I did read that whole message about 'data/', but I couldn't
+> figure out what the fix was.  I admit my C++ skills are a lacking, but
+> a patch would have been great.  It doesn't matter now, because I can't
+> build the latest CVS.
+
+I'm going to take a look on it ...
+
+
+> [...]
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to `NL3D::UDriver type_info function'
+>
+> ... which looks to me like more of that interface rearrangement stuff,
+> and I have no idea what to do about it.
+
+This is fixed in the last CVS files. Update your CVS and it should work :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000345.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000345.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b3508624 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000345.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:53:55 +0100 +

+
+ +
In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+
+(I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000346.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000346.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7cc7f0ce --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000346.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile.cpp + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile.cpp

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:05:06 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vincent Archer wrote:
+> 
+> That happens when someone adds a new file to the compilation process,
+> but forgets a "cvs add" :)
+
+Atually, it was, more or less, the other way around. The compile.cpp file
+was removed from the CVS, and it wasn't removed in the Makefile.am file :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000348.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000348.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9dd90211 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000348.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some misc questions + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some misc questions

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:39:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Jared Mark:
+> 1) When, if ever, will the 3D Studio plugin for NeL be released to the public?
+
+Right now, we have no update yet. It's still mostly a matter of license,
+and we do want to be sure before we release (once the horse leaves the barn,
+you can't close the door anymore).
+
+No ETA. Alas.
+
+> 2) Are there other 3rd party utilities (other than, say... Python) that will be required to create the game data that NeL looks for and uses?  If so, what are they, and where can we get them?
+
+So far, we need only STLports, Freetype, and Python. Which should be
+mentioned in the Readme for compilation, including the correct URLs
+(except when we swap t & l around for the STLport.org domain, that is)
+
+> 3) Is there anything in the works as far as "world creation documentation" goes?  Such as "this is how you structure your data", and "this is what you need to do for whatever to get whatever to work in your game."?  Or will we need to just kinda figure it out ourselves... :)
+
+Good question. I'm not even sure we really know ourselves (just kidding).
+That's something in the work, because oral tradition isn't enough even here.
+
+> 4) Sorry if this has been asked and answered already... but when is the projected release date for the 1.0 version of NeL?  (If there's any at all)...
+
+We do hope to have our game up in beta at the end of the year, so we
+expect to have the library stable and fully functional at about the same
+time. Whether or not we'll stamp it 1.0 before full debug, or when we go
+beta is another debate :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000349.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000349.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c025b184 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000349.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:41:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vincent Caron wrote:
+> In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+> driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+> 
+> (I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+
+I tryed to reproduce your error with the files present in the public
+repository, but it was without any success.
+
+I update the public CVS repository more or less at the same time that
+you've done the update, so could you try to update it again to check
+out if the error is not coming from our public repository
+synchronization ?
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000350.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000350.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b8fc1652 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000350.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:52:43 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Vincent Caron:
+> In nel/src/3d/driver/opengl :
+> driver_opengl.cpp:49: nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h: No such file or directory
+> 
+> (I updated my CVS repository 5 min ago)
+
+This is strange, since the repository has the viewport.h file,
+as shown on CVSweb:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/cvs/cvsweb.cgi/code/nel/include/nel/3d/tmp/viewport.h
+
+(and yes, I know people hate the 'grrrr' comments :) )
+
+Are you sure the cvs update went correctly?
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000351.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000351.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cfe7ea88 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000351.html @@ -0,0 +1,56 @@ + + + + [Nel] Pb compiling from CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Pb compiling from CVS

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:56:49 +0100 +

+
+ +
Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> 
+> I update the public CVS repository more or less at the same time that
+> you've done the update, so could you try to update it again to check
+> out if the error is not coming from our public repository
+> synchronization ?
+
+My fault, I have a pb with cvs ignoring my ~/.cvsrc file, thus I didn't
+get the new tmp/ folder in '3d'.
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000352.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000352.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..def14384 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000352.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] newbies about packet schema + + + + + + +

[Nel] newbies about packet schema

+ Kenneth Duda + kjd@cs.stanford.edu
+ Sat, 3 Mar 2001 02:02:34 -0800 +

+
+ +
> I have read artice for winsock program, if folling article is
+> true, that snow ball netowrk driver , should change it's packet
+> schema.  any one can give me suggect ?
+
+I am not familiar with the snowball protocol ("packet schema").
+However, I assure you that the article is correct --- attempting
+to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced message stream by
+disabling Nagle will not work.  The only way to implement message
+semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization to the
+byte stream.  For example,
+
+
+  void SendMessage( int socket, const void * buf, size_t length ) 
+  {
+    long l = htonl( length );
+    write( socket, &l, 4 );
+    write( socket, buf, length );
+  }
+
+  void RecvMessage( int socket, void * buf, size_t * length ) 
+  {
+    long l;
+    read( socket, &l, 4 );
+    l = ntohl( l );
+    assert( l < *length );
+    *length = l;
+    read( socket, buf, length );
+  }
+
+
+-Ken
+
+Kenneth J. Duda
+Stanford University Distributed Systems Group
+<kjd@cs.stanford.edu>
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000353.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000353.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..406534f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000353.html @@ -0,0 +1,120 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile.cpp + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile.cpp

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:42:32 -0800 +

+
+ +
> Could you, please, explain me what is the problem about the time service?
+> Here, it seems to work fine on windows 2000 and on redhat 7 linux.
+>
+> Vianney
+
+I'm running win2k on an AMD Athlon (750 chipset m/b)
+here is the log of starting the time service:
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS got port
+51001
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Local server time:
+1430727ms, universal time: 4986ms
+
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Service ready
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:38 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS-129
+registered at baldur.in-orbit.org/51001
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 ERR baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Unknown external
+exception
+LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Service stopped
+LOG 1: 01/03/06 11:19:39 INF baldur.in-orbit.org/NS: Service TS-129
+unregistered at baldur.in-orbit.org/51001
+
+when i try to compile the debug version i get this:
+time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+__thiscall NLNET::CMessage::CMessage(class _STLD::basic_string<char,class
+_STLD::char_traits<char>,class _STLD::allocator<char> >,bool,unsigned
+__int32)" (??0CMessage@NLNET@@QAE@V
+?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STLD@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STLD@@_N_I@Z)
+time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public: class
+_STLD::basic_string<char,class _STLD::char_traits<char>,class
+_STLD::allocator<char> > const & __thiscall
+NLNET::CInetAddress::hostName(void)const " (?hostName@CInetAddress@
+NLNET@@QBEABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STLD@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STLD
+@@XZ)
+nlnet_debug.lib(service.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+"public: virtual void __thiscall NLMISC::CStdDisplayer::display(long,enum
+NLMISC::CLog::TLogType,class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocat
+or<char> > const &,char const *,int,char const *)"
+(?display@CStdDisplayer@NLMISC@@UAEXJW4TLogType@CLog@2@ABV?$basic_string@DV?
+$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@PBDH2@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(service.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+"public: static void __cdecl NLMISC::CLog::setProcessName(class
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > const &)" (?setProcessName@C
+Log@NLMISC@@SAXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_
+STL@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol "public: class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocator<char> > const & __thiscall
+NLMISC::CConfigFile::CVar::asString(int)const " (?as
+String@CVar@CConfigFile@NLMISC@@QBEABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@
+@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@H@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol "public: struct NLMISC::CConfigFile::CVar & __thiscall
+NLMISC::CConfigFile::getVar(class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocator<char>
+ > const &)"
+(?getVar@CConfigFile@NLMISC@@QAEAAUCVar@12@ABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits
+@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(naming_client.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external
+symbol "public: void __thiscall NLMISC::CConfigFile::load(class
+_STL::basic_string<char,class _STL::char_traits<char>,class
+_STL::allocator<char> > const &)" (?load@CConfigFile@
+NLMISC@@QAEXABV?$basic_string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL
+@@@Z)
+nlnet_debug.lib(net_log.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+"protected: static class _STL::basic_string<char,class
+_STL::char_traits<char>,class _STL::allocator<char> >
+NLMISC::CLog::_ProcessName" (?_ProcessName@CLog@NLMISC@@1V?$basic_
+string@DV?$char_traits@D@_STL@@V?$allocator@D@2@@_STL@@A)
+Debug/time_service.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 8 unresolved externals
+
+Michael
+No matter where you go, &this.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000355.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000355.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ff1ebbac --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000355.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] client trouble + + + + + + +

[Nel] client trouble

+ nel@elwar.com + nel@elwar.com
+ Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:19:27 -0500 +

+
+ +
Ok, finally I got the client to actually start and ask for my login and
+such. I connected to itsalive.nevrax.org because I guess I have no shards
+available when I run the server. But after I choose the shard at nevrax I get:
+
+01/03/06 22:58:19 INF: Connecting to the shard...
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 open (TCP)
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 connected to 195.68.21.196/50010
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 is at 192.168.1.2/2060
+01/03/06 22:58:19 DBG: P1: Socket 5 sent message AUT (21 bytes +10)
+01/03/06 22:58:19 INF: Loading data...
+01/03/06 22:58:21 ERR: Error in the client: Read error in file './data/' (End of
+ file??)
+01/03/06 22:58:21 DBG: P1: Socket 5 closed at 192.168.1.2/2060
+
+in the client.log file, and it crashes. I'll do some more bug testing to track
+down the exact file it's having trouble with but I just thought I'd see if
+I'm missing something here. 
+
+							Elwar
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000357.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000357.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aa3517d3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000357.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] still having data/ problem + + + + + + +

[Nel] still having data/ problem

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:22:23 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
> I have to assume this is a Debian/GNU Linux problem because the other
+> guy who had this problem (Leighton Haynes) said he was on a Debian box
+> and because it all seems to work on RedHat.  Perhaps it's a libc
+> thing?  I'm using the latest of everything (unstable Debian).
+
+I noticed that the version of STLport that is called for is 4.0, but
+the version that is packaged for Debian is 4.1.  I'm going to purge my
+4.1 libraries and build 4.0 to see if that fixes it.
+
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000359.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000359.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bbc60ef9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000359.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] segv if I press alt? + + + + + + +

[Nel] segv if I press alt?

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:30:39 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Hello again!
+
+I was trying to debug the 'Read error' message, and while switching
+between desktops by pressing "Alt-F1" I generated a segmentation fault
+before I hit the F1 key.  It's extremely easy to duplicate and here's
+the traceback:
+
+(gdb) run
+Starting program: /usr/local/bin/client 
+
+Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
+NLMISC::CBitSet::set (this=0x80a09c4, bitNumber=134875400, value=true) at bit_set.cpp:111
+111                     Array[bitNumber / BITLEN]|= mask ;
+(gdb) bt  
+#0  NLMISC::CBitSet::set (this=0x80a09c4, bitNumber=134875400, value=true) at bit_set.cpp:111
+#1  0x400b9c88 in NLMISC::CEventListenerAsync::operator() (this=0x80a09c0, event=@0x82910c8) at event_listener.cpp:91
+#2  0x400ba0f9 in NLMISC::CEventServer::pumpEvent (this=0x80a0940, event=0x82910c8) at event_server.cpp:89
+#3  0x400ba047 in NLMISC::CEventServer::pump (this=0x80a0940) at event_server.cpp:67
+#4  0x807486f in CLanguageInterface::choose (this=0xbffff39c) at language_interface.cpp:141
+#5  0x806fd4e in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffff644) at client.cpp:3078
+#6  0x4040ec14 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/i686/libc.so.6
+(gdb) 
+
+I'm hesitant to file any bugs until I know my development environment
+is up to spec and I don't have any problems with wrong library
+versions and such.
+
+If someone can confirm that this is a bug in a working client, they or
+I can file a bug, otherwise I'll chalk it up to being something on my
+end.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000360.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000360.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4b011b96 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000360.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] segv if I press alt? + + + + + + +

[Nel] segv if I press alt?

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:50:02 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 10:30:39PM -0800, robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> Hello again!
+> 
+> I was trying to debug the 'Read error' message, and while switching
+> between desktops by pressing "Alt-F1" I generated a segmentation fault
+> before I hit the F1 key.  It's extremely easy to duplicate and here's
+> the traceback:
+> 
+> I'm hesitant to file any bugs until I know my development environment
+> is up to spec and I don't have any problems with wrong library
+> versions and such.
+> 
+> If someone can confirm that this is a bug in a working client, they or
+> I can file a bug, otherwise I'll chalk it up to being something on my
+> end.
+> 
+I've noticed this bug. The code that translates X Keypress
+events seems to be broken. I haven't looked at it in detail yet.
+Basically, the code expects to convert all keypresses to a number
+between 0 and 255(?) and then shoves the flag into an array.
+The alt key is getting converted into a number greater than 255
+so it generates a segfault when it tries to set the array value
+for that key.
+
+It's on my list of things to take a look at when I get time ;)
+
+On another topic, I'll post my workaround for the loading "data/" 
+bug thingie to the list sometime tonight. We still need to work out
+_why_ it's trying to load this though. The 'fix' will make it work,
+but doesn't really fix anything.
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000362.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000362.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0830f108 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000362.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used + + + + + + +

[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Wed, 7 Mar 2001 01:33:34 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Thanks to Leighton's advice I was able to get running.  Here's the
+patch I used:
+
+$ cvs diff landscape.cpp
+Index: landscape.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.48
+diff -u -r1.48 landscape.cpp
+--- landscape.cpp       2001/02/28 14:28:57     1.48
++++ landscape.cpp       2001/03/07 09:35:52
+@@ -741,16 +741,21 @@
+        // Fill rdrpass.
+        CPatchRdrPass   pass;
+        // The diffuse part for a tile is inevitable.
+-       if(tile)
+-               pass.TextureDiffuse= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+tile->getRelativeFileName(CTile::diffuse));
+-       else
++       if(tile) {
++               textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::diffuse);
++               if(textName!="")
++                       pass.TextureDiffuse= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
++       } else {
+                pass.TextureDiffuse= new CTextureCross;
++        }
+        if(tile)
+        {
+                textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::alpha);
+                if(textName!="")
+                        pass.TextureAlpha= findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+-       }
++       } else {
++                pass.TextureAlpha= new CTextureCross;
++        }
+ 
+ 
+        // Fill tileInfo.
+
+As he said, this is not an actuall fix, merely a way to cover up the
+problem.  This will probably make sense to someone there and in the
+mean time I can learn about the rest of this system.
+
+Woo hoo!
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000363.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000363.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ab35c98b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000363.html @@ -0,0 +1,115 @@ + + + + [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used + + + + + + +

[Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used

+ Lionel Berenguier + berenguier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:59:21 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: <robert@paradox.got.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:33 AM
+Subject: [Nel] here's the landscape.cpp patch I used
+
+
+> Thanks to Leighton's advice I was able to get running.  Here's the
+> patch I used:
+>
+> $ cvs diff landscape.cpp
+> Index: landscape.cpp
+> ===================================================================
+> RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp,v
+> retrieving revision 1.48
+> diff -u -r1.48 landscape.cpp
+> --- landscape.cpp       2001/02/28 14:28:57     1.48
+> +++ landscape.cpp       2001/03/07 09:35:52
+> @@ -741,16 +741,21 @@
+>         // Fill rdrpass.
+>         CPatchRdrPass   pass;
+>         // The diffuse part for a tile is inevitable.
+> -       if(tile)
+> -               pass.TextureDiffuse=
+findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+tile->getRelativeFileName(CTile::diffu
+se));
+> -       else
+> +       if(tile) {
+> +               textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::diffuse);
+> +               if(textName!="")
+> +                       pass.TextureDiffuse=
+findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+> +       } else {
+>                 pass.TextureDiffuse= new CTextureCross;
+> +        }
+
+
+Actually, If CTextureFile::generate() do not find the file, it should do the
+work of creating a dummy texture for you.
+
+I think, the bug is CTextureFile::generate() try to load a "data/" (a
+directory) which may crash on linux ??
+
+
+>         if(tile)
+>         {
+>                 textName= tile->getRelativeFileName (CTile::alpha);
+>                 if(textName!="")
+>                         pass.TextureAlpha=
+findTileTexture(TileBank.getAbsPath()+textName);
+> -       }
+> +       } else {
+> +                pass.TextureAlpha= new CTextureCross;
+> +        }
+
+
+This patch is wrong, because a NULL TextureAlpha is possible, and should not
+crash.
+
+
+I'll correct this.
+
+
+
+Lionel Berenguier.
+---
+3d programmer / nevrax.com
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000364.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000364.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a01e7904 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000364.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] compile.cpp + + + + + + +

[Nel] compile.cpp

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:05:51 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+> LOG 2: 01/03/06 11:19:39 ERR baldur.in-orbit.org/TS: Unknown external
+exception
+
+Not easy to know what s happen, it should be easier to know the problem if
+you compile the time service and NeL
+in the debug mode and run it in the visual debugger. We are not able to
+reproduce this problem here :-(
+
+> when i try to compile the debug version i get this:
+> time_service.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "public:
+
+In all NeL project settings (3d, ia, net, misc, client, services, and so on)
+you must have __STL_DEBUG defined in the debug mode.
+Please verify if they all contains this define and if not, add it!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000365.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000365.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5730e6b9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000365.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] 'data/' bug + + + + + + +

[Nel] 'data/' bug

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:25:17 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi there!
+
+We, at last, understood the problem of the 'data/' bug on linux.
+In fact, in our rawdatafiles, there are some empty file names and in our
+program, we try to find where these files are located.
+For that, we use a function (CPath::lookup()) that tries to find the file in
+all directories provided before by the user.
+To know if a file exists, we try to open it and if the opening success, we
+return true (CFile::fileExists()).
+When the prog tries to find the file "", first it calls fileExists("") that
+returns false.
+Next step, it tries with the first directory in his list,
+fileExists("data/"+""); On windows, the OS can't open the directory
+("data/")
+so it returns false. On linux, it can, so it returns true and the program
+tries to read the directory as if it was
+a texture, and of course, it fails (end of file).
+
+We fixed the problem by adding this next line in the top of the function
+string CPath::lookup( const string& filename ) in path.cpp:
+
+ if(filename.empty())
+  throw EPathNotFound( filename );
+
+Of course, we put it on cvs and it will be synchronized this night (GMT+1).
+
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000366.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000366.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..70a4362d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000366.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ + + + + [Nel] newbies about packet schema + + + + + + +

[Nel] newbies about packet schema

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:02:46 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+>I am not familiar with the snowball protocol ("packet schema").
+>However, I assure you that the article is correct --- attempting
+>to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced message stream by
+>disabling Nagle will not work.  The only way to implement message
+>semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization to the
+>byte stream.  For example,
+
+thanks .
+but snowball seem  have  no any packet schema , just disable Nagle .
+snowball assume send 50 byte , it will receive 50 byte once.
+if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte twice,if it happen,snow ball is =
+die.
+does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n byte by =
+more than one recive ) ?
+
+
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>&gt;I am not familiar with the =
+snowball protocol=20
+("packet schema").<BR>&gt;However, I assure you that the article is =
+correct ---=20
+attempting<BR>&gt;to turn TCP from a byte stream into a sequenced =
+message stream=20
+by<BR>&gt;disabling Nagle will not work.&nbsp; The only way to implement =
+
+message<BR>&gt;semantics on top of TCP is to add your own packetization =
+to=20
+the<BR>&gt;byte stream.&nbsp; For example,</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>thanks .</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>but snowball seem&nbsp; have&nbsp; no =
+any packet=20
+schema , just disable Nagle .</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>snowball assume send 50 byte , it =
+will receive 50=20
+byte once.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte =
+twice,if it=20
+happen,snow ball is die.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n =
+byte by=20
+more than one recive ) ?</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C0A7B6.ECAB2720--
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000367.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000367.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..308a728d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000367.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] newbies about packet schema + + + + + + +

[Nel] newbies about packet schema

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:37 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to jaleco:
+> thanks .
+> but snowball seem  have  no any packet schema , just disable Nagle .
+> snowball assume send 50 byte , it will receive 50 byte once.
+> if send 50 byte , the recevie 25 byte twice,if it happen,snow ball is die.
+> does it will happen in real world ( send n byte, recive total n byte by more than one recive ) ?
+
+That's why we're redoing the low-level network stuff :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000368.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000368.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..48d0e848 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000368.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] problem when running snowball with win98 + + + + + + +

[Nel] problem when running snowball with win98

+ Antoine Hahusseau + antoine.hahusseau1@libertysurf.fr
+ Thu, 08 Mar 2001 19:50:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
i finaly managed to compile it ! with visual C++ v 6
+
+- you should REALLY tell in the download page that we have to download
+first stlport and freetype ...
+
+but, forget this point, after compilation i get
+
+- snowball.exe, stlxxx dll and nel_openglxxx dll
+i put all of them in the same directory and also the data subdirectory.
+
+and when i launch snowball : i get
+
+error cannot found nel_openglxxx dll
+(135272 octets by the way since i did not mess with the original
+settings)
+
+but this dll is in the same directory as the exe : so what's wrong ?
+
+maybe my graphic card is not enough compliant with the opengl (its a
+voodoo 3, please don't laugh) ?
+
+does someone encoutered  the same problem,
+does someone managed to play snowball with a voodoo ?
+
+help will be appreciated !
+thanks
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000369.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000369.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f1713c76 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000369.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ + + + + [Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG + + + + + + +

[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG

+ Christine Hall + return@trafficmagnet.net
+ Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:17:54 +0800 +

+
+ +
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
+<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
+<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=#ffffff><img src="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+" width=1 height=1 border=0><FONT face=Arial size=2>
+<P>Hello,<BR></P>
+<P>I visited 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> and I 
+noticed that you are not listed on some search engines. I am sure you can 
+increase the number of people who visit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A>. Do you know TrafficMagnet? TrafficMagnet is a unique technology that automatically submits your 
+web site to over 300,000+ search engines and directories every month. This is a 
+very low-cost and effective way of advertising your site. </P>
+<P>To check our prices and submit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> to 
+300,000+ search engines, go to <a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">TrafficMagnet.net</A></P>
+<P>I would love to hear from you. </P>
+<P>Best Regards,<BR>Christine Hall<BR>Sales &amp; Marketing<BR><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">www.TrafficMagnet.net</A> 
+<STYLE type=text/css>.button {
+	BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc0000; COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-WEIGHT: bold
+}
+</STYLE>
+</P>
+<P>
+<TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 width=507>
+  <TBODY>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif" 
+      width=59></A></TD>
+    <TD width=253>
+      <TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0>
+        <TBODY>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=21><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg" 
+            width=21></A></TD>
+          <TD height=24 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=24 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=22><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg" 
+            width=22></A></TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD>
+<A Href = http://www.nevrax.org><IMG Src = http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg Border=0 width="210" height="141"></A>
+</A>
+          </TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=25 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=25 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
+    <TD width=239><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=175 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif" 
+      width=239></A></TD></TR>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=48 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59>&nbsp;</TD>
+    <TD align=middle vAlign=bottom width=253>
+	<a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif"></A>
+    </TD>
+    <TD align=right vAlign=bottom 
+width=239>&nbsp;</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000371.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000371.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d978b6c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000371.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Data format ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Data format ?

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:58 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello to all !
+I   have   some ideas  related to creation and storing of
+game's world data -
+I think,  it's technically possible to store all descriptions of game world
+in  XML  format. I just recall what in past days I have used DXF file
+format   to   interchange  my data between various CAD applications. By
+using of XML, I think, we can implement the same functionality
+as  with  DXF plus additional attributes which we need (i.e. textures,
+sounds,  etc.  etc.) It'll allow not to stick us just to 3DStudio, but
+use  any  3D design tool with published file format and converter from
+that  format to the NEL format. Is it possible to rewrite part of NeL,
+which   is   responsible  to reading game's data, the way it reads data
+directly from XML file? IMHO, it's not too hard.
+
+Comments ? Critics ?
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000373.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000373.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8721494b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000373.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse + + + + + + +

[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:26:56 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Building latest CVS I get the following:
+
+client.cpp:433: cannot declare variable `ChatDisplayer' to be of type `CChatDisplayer'
+client.cpp:433:   since the following virtual functions are abstract:
+/usr/local/include/nel/misc/displayer.h:62:     void NLMISC::IDisplayer::doDisplay(long int, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType, const _STL::string &, const char *, int, const char *)
+
+Anybody else getting this?  I'll figure it out myself if I'm the only
+one,  Otherwise I'd prefer to let someone who knows C++ deal with it.
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000374.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000374.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b8b792cb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000374.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse + + + + + + +

[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:01:12 -0800 +

+
+ +
I got the same problem, you just beat me to reporting it:)
+
+Michael Warnock
+In-Orbit Entertainment Inc.
+No matter where you go, &this.
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <robert@paradox.got.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:26 PM
+Subject: [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse
+
+
+> Building latest CVS I get the following:
+>
+> client.cpp:433: cannot declare variable `ChatDisplayer' to be of type
+`CChatDisplayer'
+> client.cpp:433:   since the following virtual functions are abstract:
+> /usr/local/include/nel/misc/displayer.h:62:     void
+NLMISC::IDisplayer::doDisplay(long int, NLMISC::CLog::TLogType, const
+_STL::string &, const char *, int, const char *)
+>
+> Anybody else getting this?  I'll figure it out myself if I'm the only
+> one,  Otherwise I'd prefer to let someone who knows C++ deal with it.
+>
+> Robert
+>
+> --
+> Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+> System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept
+> Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+> <robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000376.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000376.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..05737b3e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000376.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse + + + + + + +

[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse

+ Pierre Bonnefoy + pierre@mobivision.com
+ Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:33:13 +0100 +

+
+ +
OK, I had the same problem as 'Robert' and Michael Warnock.
+
+Thank you Vianney for the fix, although, now, I have a different problem
+when compiling the client:
+
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/pierre/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2
+  -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o
+login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o
+shards_list_interface.o sight.o
+lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/
+pierre/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> type_info node'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat>::getValue(void)
+const'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> type_info
+function'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> virtual table'
+/usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+`NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat,
+NLMISC::CQuat>::evalKey(NL3D::CKeyQuat const *, NL3D::CKeyQuat const *,
+float, float, float)'
+collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
+
+
+
+I have also a problem when compiling the server, but there are many many
+error reports (file included).
+Moreover, I have a little problem first when compiling server : There is
+no --with-python option in configure, and, first, there was a problem as
+Python.h was not found. I added by and in makefile the path towards Python.h
+and subsequent files.
+Shouldn't --with-python option be included also in configure for server ?
+
+
+As a conclusion, I would like to thank people fom Nevrax and every people
+involved in Nevrax.org for such a great job !
+
+
+     Pierre Bonnefoy
+
+[Moderation note: attached file removed for posting in the mailing list]
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2a707604 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse + + + + + + +

[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:15:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+Pierre Bonnefoy wrote:
+> Thank you Vianney for the fix, although, now, I have a different problem
+> when compiling the client:
+>
+> [...]
+
+NeL's headers files are under heavy reorganization so we decide to freeze
+the development of the client until it's finished.
+
+So i strongly recommend to use the last Snowball release, Snowball 0.2, 
+which can be download on http://www.nevrax.org
+
+
+> I have also a problem when compiling the server, but there are many many
+> error reports (file included).
+
+i'm going to take a look on that ...
+
+> Moreover, I have a little problem first when compiling server : There is
+> no --with-python option in configure, and, first, there was a problem as
+> Python.h was not found. I added by and in makefile the path towards Python.h
+> and subsequent files.
+> Shouldn't --with-python option be included also in configure for server ?
+
+It's on my task list for a long time, sorry about that, I will do it
+today ...
+
+> As a conclusion, I would like to thank people fom Nevrax and every people
+> involved in Nevrax.org for such a great job !
+
+Thanks :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000378.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000378.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9bb5ad4f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000378.html @@ -0,0 +1,115 @@ + + + + [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse + + + + + + +

[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse

+ Cyril Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:57:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
>
+c++ -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/home/pierre/STLport-4.0/stlport -g -O2
+>   -o client  character_interface.o client.o language_interface.o
+> login_interface.o move_listener.o pb_message_box.o player_view.o
+> shards_list_interface.o sight.o
+>
+lens_flare.o -lnelnet -lnelmisc -lnel3d -L/usr/local/lib -lfreetype -L/home/
+> pierre/STLport-4.0/lib  -lstlport_gcc
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat, NLMISC::CQuat> type_info
+node'
+> /usr/local/lib/libnel3d.so: undefined reference to
+> `NL3D::CTrackKeyFramerLinear<NL3D::CKeyQuat,
+NLMISC::CQuat>::getValue(void)
+> const'
+
+I have fixed that bug. It should be on the cvs tonight (GMT+1).
+
+*** For c++ addicts, here is the problem ***
+
+The link failed under GCC when we use non-inline functions in a template
+implementation.
+No problem with Visual C++ 6.0.
+
+It looked like this:
+
+in the .h file:
+-----------
+
+// Two template classes
+template<class T>
+class a
+{
+    virtual void toto()=0;
+};
+
+template<class T>
+class b : public a<T>
+{
+    virtual void toto()
+    {
+        ...
+    };
+};
+
+// The second one is implemented, but toto function body is in the .cpp
+file.
+class b<int> : public a<int>
+{
+    virtual void toto();
+};
+
+In the .cpp:
+-----------
+virtual void b<int>::toto()
+{
+    ...
+};
+
+The fixe was to let the toto body inline in the header.
+
+Any comments ?
+
+---
+Cyril Corvazier
+Lead 3d programmer
+Nevrax France
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000379.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000379.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..85f3e17d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000379.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage + + + + + + +

[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage

+ loic@senga.org + loic@senga.org
+ Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:01:48 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
The message of AC_MSG_CHECKING is included in double quotes and should
+not (double quote included alread -> <> act as redirections).
+
+[loic@loic nel]$ cvs diff -c configure.in
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -c -c -r1.23 configure.in
+*** configure.in	2001/02/26 17:46:48	1.23
+--- configure.in	2001/03/14 17:14:26
+***************
+*** 217,223 ****
+  )
+  
+  dnl Checking the GLEXT version
+! AC_MSG_CHECKING("for <GL/glext.h> version")
+  AC_EGREP_CPP( yo_glext_version,
+  [#include <GL/glext.h>
+  #ifdef GL_GLEXT_VERSION
+--- 217,223 ----
+  )
+  
+  dnl Checking the GLEXT version
+! AC_MSG_CHECKING(for <GL/glext.h> version)
+  AC_EGREP_CPP( yo_glext_version,
+  [#include <GL/glext.h>
+  #ifdef GL_GLEXT_VERSION
+
+-- 
+Loic   Dachary         http://www.dachary.org/  loic@dachary.org
+24 av Secretan         http://www.senga.org/      loic@senga.org
+75019    Paris         Tel: 33 1 42 45 09 16        loic@gnu.org
+        GPG Public Key: http://www.dachary.org/loic/gpg.txt
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000380.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000380.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a3029a99 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000380.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage + + + + + + +

[Nel] configure.in double quotes lossage

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:34:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
loic@senga.org wrote:
+> 
+> The message of AC_MSG_CHECKING is included in double quotes and should
+> not (double quote included alread -> <> act as redirections).
+
+Fixed.
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000381.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000381.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..37cd8c62 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000381.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse + + + + + + +

[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:23:43 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
+> *** For c++ addicts, here is the problem ***
+> 
+> The link failed under GCC when we use non-inline functions in a template
+> implementation.
+> No problem with Visual C++ 6.0.
+
+What is your programming environment like?  Do you have equal parts
+Windows and Unix develovers?  What kind of testing do you have?
+Judging by the dates in CVS it looks like you've been developing for
+about five months, is this correct?  Is all of your development staff
+focused on the GPL'd parts right now, or is some development already
+underway for the proprietary content (game code)?
+
+Is someone over there working on documentation?  Is there a public
+document describing your objectives and plans?
+
+I'm also still curious in which ways the non-nevrax community can best
+assist your efforts.  It seems the bug reports and patches are
+well-received, but without much documentation it's hard to tell where
+our efforts are most needed.
+
+Thanks!
+
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      " meetings, n.:
+System Administrator         A place where minutes are kept 
+Got.net                                and hours are lost."
+<robert@got.net>                    -- login fortune
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000383.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000383.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6941f7a9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000383.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs + + + + + + +

[Nel] Server compilation and Python stuffs

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:43:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+We improved the Python detection and NeL configuration :
+
+    you do not have to use --with-python as an argument for the
+    configure script, now it's automatic ...
+
+We fixed the server compilation, so it should compile with today's
+NeL cvs files, but the agent service doesn't work at the momment,
+you will get a segmentation fault if you try to launch it :-(
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000384.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000384.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..30a489ee --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000384.html @@ -0,0 +1,48 @@ + + + + [Nel] list + + + + + + +

[Nel] list

+ San Mehat + nettwerk@valinux.com
+ Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:57:50 -0800 +

+
+ +
list
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000385.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000385.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2060c9f8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000385.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ + + + + [Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG + + + + + + +

[Nel] WWW.NEVRAX.ORG

+ Christine Hall + return@trafficmagnet.net
+ Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:00:07 +0800 +

+
+ +
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
+<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
+<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=#ffffff><img src="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/get.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+" width=1 height=1 border=0><FONT face=Arial size=2>
+<P>Hello,<BR></P>
+<P>I visited 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> and I 
+noticed that you are not listed on some search engines. I am sure you can 
+increase the number of people who visit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A>. Do you know TrafficMagnet? TrafficMagnet is a unique technology that automatically submits your 
+web site to over 300,000+ search engines and directories every month. This is a 
+very low-cost and effective way of advertising your site. </P>
+<P>To check our prices and submit 
+<A href=http://www.nevrax.org>www.nevrax.org</A>
+</A> to 
+300,000+ search engines, go to <a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">TrafficMagnet.net</A></P>
+<P>I would love to hear from you. </P>
+<P>Best Regards,<BR>Christine Hall<BR>Sales &amp; Marketing<BR><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+">www.TrafficMagnet.net</A> 
+<STYLE type=text/css>.button {
+	BACKGROUND-COLOR: #cc0000; COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-WEIGHT: bold
+}
+</STYLE>
+</P>
+<P>
+<TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 width=507>
+  <TBODY>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/magnet.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=159 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/blitz.gif" 
+      width=59></A></TD>
+    <TD width=253>
+      <TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0>
+        <TBODY>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=21><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameleft.jpg" 
+            width=21></A></TD>
+          <TD height=24 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=24 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frametop.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD>
+          <TD height=194 rowSpan=3 width=22><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 height=194 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/frameright.jpg" 
+            width=22></A></TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD>
+<A Href = http://www.nevrax.org><IMG Src = http://image5.trafficmagnet.net/image/1/36/img39.jpg Border=0 width="210" height="141"></A>
+</A>
+          </TD></TR>
+        <TR>
+          <TD height=25 width=210><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG 
+            border=0 height=25 
+            src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/framebottom.jpg" 
+            width=210></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
+    <TD width=239><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=175 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/people.gif" 
+      width=239></A></TD></TR>
+  <TR>
+    <TD width=149><a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 
+      height=48 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/brand.jpg" 
+      width=149></A></TD>
+    <TD width=59>&nbsp;</TD>
+    <TD align=middle vAlign=bottom width=253>
+	<a href="http://report.trafficmagnet.net/report/tr/click.php?referemail=
+nel@nevrax.org
+"><IMG border=0 src="http://image4.trafficmagnet.net/trafficmagnet/signup.gif"></A>
+    </TD>
+    <TD align=right vAlign=bottom 
+width=239>&nbsp;</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000387.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000387.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eeaa76bb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000387.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Is this list dead? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Is this list dead?

+ robert@wrack.thatsnice.org + robert@wrack.thatsnice.org
+ Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:57:50 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
> 
+> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+
+We're waiting for the Nevrax folks to tell us they're done
+re-arranging the NeL layout.  Check it out:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day;
+System Administrator   set him on fire and he'll be warm 
+Got.net                for the rest of his life."
+<robert@got.net>                -- The Cube, forum3000.org
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000388.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000388.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..03118dde --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000388.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Is this list dead? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Is this list dead?

+ dam's + damien@mandrakesoft.com
+ 28 Mar 2001 05:14:57 +0200 +

+
+ +
robert@wrack.thatsnice.org writes:
+
+> > 
+> > Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+> 
+> We're waiting for the Nevrax folks to tell us they're done
+> re-arranging the NeL layout.  Check it out:
+> 
+> http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000377.html
+
+ok, great ! 
+
+-- 
+dam's
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000389.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000389.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d8431e21 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000389.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Is this list dead? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Is this list dead?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:23:21 +0200 +

+
+ +
According to dam's:
+> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except some ad.
+
+Which is the second time it got on this list. Trafficmagnet will soon land
+in the forbidden domain list here.
+
+No, the list is unusually quiet these days. Chalk it up to GDC (Games
+Developpers Conference, for those of you not familiar with the industry).
+We're edging on toward our first internal milestone, so we haven't started
+a new discussion, and apparently we haven't had a major hiccup in the CVS
+recently... so we have fewer complaints than the usual too.
+
+The web server overhaul mentioned is close to done (but we're overhauling
+our internal web tools too, so that takes time). Expect a more up-to-date
+documentation.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000390.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000390.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cbdf5cb5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000390.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] Is this list dead? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Is this list dead?

+ Matthew Flagg + Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com
+ Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:27:59 -0500 +

+
+ +
I replied not only to that email but every contact address on their site and
+politely, in two lines, asked them to not use our developer's list as spam
+receptacle.  I tried before but I guess they didn't get it.  Maybe we should
+actually subscribe them to the list! :)  That way they would know exactly
+whats going on. :)
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Vincent Archer [mailto:archer@nevrax.com]
+Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 3:23 AM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Is this list dead?
+
+
+According to dam's:
+> Is this list dead? I suscribed one week ago, and still nothing, except
+some ad.
+
+Which is the second time it got on this list. Trafficmagnet will soon land
+in the forbidden domain list here.
+
+No, the list is unusually quiet these days. Chalk it up to GDC (Games
+Developpers Conference, for those of you not familiar with the industry).
+We're edging on toward our first internal milestone, so we haven't started
+a new discussion, and apparently we haven't had a major hiccup in the CVS
+recently... so we have fewer complaints than the usual too.
+
+The web server overhaul mentioned is close to done (but we're overhauling
+our internal web tools too, so that takes time). Expect a more up-to-date
+documentation.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email:
+archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we
+go!
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000391.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000391.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5c8dc028 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/000391.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ + + + + [Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse + + + + + + +

[Nel] ugh, C++ is so obtuse

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:53:19 +0200 +

+
+ +
robert@paradox.got.net wrote:
+> 
+> What is your programming environment like?
+
+On Windows computers :
+
+   Windows 2000
+   Visual C++ 6.0
+   WinCVS and TortoiseCVS
+
+On GNU/Linux computers :
+
+   Debian, Redhat and Mandrake distributions
+   GCC 2.95.2 and 2.96 (yes i now :-)
+   Emacs, XEmacs, or kdevelop
+   DDD / GDB
+
+
+> Do you have equal parts Windows and Unix develovers?
+
+Most of us are working on Windows, the VC++ debuging system is a lot more
+appreciated by some of us :-)
+
+
+> What kind of testing do you have?
+
+We have two major way of testing our work :
+
+   using Snowball as a test program
+   and / or writing small applications to test specific functionalities.
+
+It's very basic :-)
+
+
+> Judging by the dates in CVS it looks like you've been developing for
+> about five months, is this correct?
+
+We started coding approximately 10 months ago. We developed some code
+to make some tests to make some decisions about the technologie to
+use and some other points ...
+
+
+> Is all of your development staff focused on the GPL'd parts right
+> now, or is some development already underway for the proprietary
+> content (game code)?
+
+We have been working on the our game code for some time now, so we are
+currently working on both parts, GPL and proprietary code.
+
+
+> Is someone over there working on documentation?  Is there a public
+> document describing your objectives and plans?
+
+We are currently working on the documentation, and we should be able to
+make our work available soon ;-)
+
+
+> I'm also still curious in which ways the non-nevrax community can best
+> assist your efforts.  It seems the bug reports and patches are
+> well-received, but without much documentation it's hard to tell where
+> our efforts are most needed.
+
+Our documentions will include a roadmap and other related documents, so
+you should be able get a better idea on what we are doing and on what
+we plan to work on ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..04f6fbc5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-March Archive by Author + + + +

2001-March Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Thu Mar 1 01:39:53 2001
+ Ending: Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Messages: 81

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0d9ebd12 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-March Archive by Date + + + +

2001-March Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Thu Mar 1 01:39:53 2001
+ Ending: Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Messages: 81

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..78c1830d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-March Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-March Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Thu Mar 1 01:39:53 2001
+ Ending: Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Messages: 81

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-March/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9ca85dbb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-March/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,275 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-March Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-March Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Mar 1 01:39:53 2001
+ Ending: Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Messages: 81

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Mar 28 18:53:19 2001
+ Archived on: Thu Mar 29 11:31:17 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-May/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0d4ce8c9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,48 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-May Archive by Author + + + +

2001-May Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Tue May 1 03:44:36 2001
+ Ending: Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Messages: 3

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Archived on: Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-May/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..83f3a7cd --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,48 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-May Archive by Date + + + +

2001-May Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Tue May 1 03:44:36 2001
+ Ending: Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Messages: 3

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Archived on: Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-May/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..92dfc4d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,48 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-May Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-May Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Tue May 1 03:44:36 2001
+ Ending: Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Messages: 3

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Archived on: Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-May/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b169f21a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-May/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-May Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-May Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Tue May 1 03:44:36 2001
+ Ending: Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Messages: 3

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri May 11 10:36:51 2001
+ Archived on: Fri May 11 11:41:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/000760.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/000760.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b5a12546 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/000760.html @@ -0,0 +1,169 @@ + + + + [Nel] How to compile the object_viewer? + + + + + + +

[Nel] How to compile the object_viewer?

+ zen + zen@lapisonline.com
+ Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:21:47 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all,
+
+I've try to compile the object viewer and got the messages followed:
+
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error C2589: =
+'(' : illegal token on right side of '::'
+D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error C2059: =
+syntax error : '::'
+
+I have no idea how come this happened. The header file looks fine and =
+I've successfully compile the snowball2 thus it should be correct, =
+right?
+
+Please help me out!
+
+By the way , I want to study the code, and maybe I can offer some help, =
+for example, debug, where should I start? Should possess any expertise =
+first?
+
+Sincerely,
+
+Zen Jean
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5" http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DMingLiu size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>I've try to compile the =
+object viewer and got the=20
+messages followed:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9=20
+size=3D2>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error =
+C2589: '('=20
+: illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(188) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(189) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(190) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(194) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(195) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : =
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) :=20
+error C2589: '(' : illegal token on right side of=20
+'::'<BR>D:\WORK\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/vector_inline.h(196) : error =
+C2059:=20
+syntax error : '::'</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>I have no idea how come =
+this happened. The header=20
+file looks fine and I've successfully compile the snowball2 thus it =
+should be=20
+correct, right?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Please help me =
+out!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>By the way , I want to =
+study the code, and maybe I=20
+can offer some help, for example, debug, where should I start? Should =
+possess=20
+any expertise first?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3D=B2=D3=A9=FA=C5=E9 size=3D2>Zen =
+Jean</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C178FA.536D3E70--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f60eb11e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-November Archive by Author + + + +

2001-November Archives by Author

+ +

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+

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+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-November/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dea6ad4b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-November/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-November Archive by Date + + + +

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2001-September Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Sep 13 11:20:38 2001
+ Ending: Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001
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+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Sep 26 19:02:01 2001
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+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001006.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001006.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7d55f932 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001006.html @@ -0,0 +1,225 @@ + + + + [Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing... + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] ADV: Please Forward to Marketing... +

+ nel@nevrax.org + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ 14 Feb 2002 06:52:23 -0800 +

+
+ +
------=_s8W0bpD2_0JU5Gmgg_MA
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+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001127.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001127.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d7e34f07 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/001127.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ + + + + [Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] How to build landscape with 3DS max +

+ neuser jean-philippe + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:55:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hello all  ,=20
+ok i have understood that the only way to make my landscape is to use =
+3DS max.
+
+ok i have compile ligo project and 3ds max plugins , i have some Dll, =
+Dlu plugin install in 3DS max directory but now i do ?  :)=20
+i see that i can execute some script but i dont understand what to do =
+with.=20
+
+Is somebody can tell me the how to begin ? i just want to make a very =
+little landscape  ( a plane is sufficient ! )=20
+
+
+thansk all=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all&nbsp; , </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ok i have understood that the only way =
+to make my=20
+landscape is to use 3DS max.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ok i have compile ligo project and 3ds =
+max plugins=20
+, i have some Dll, Dlu plugin install in 3DS max directory but now i do =
+?&nbsp;=20
+:) </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>i see that i can execute some script =
+but i dont=20
+understand what to do with. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Is somebody can tell me the how to =
+begin ? i just=20
+want to make a very little landscape&nbsp; ( a plane is sufficient ! )=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thansk all </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1BFF2.9B5ABB10--
+
+
+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..206ea96f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,751 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-February Archive by Author + + + + + +

2002-February Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Fri Feb 1 00:15:50 2002
+ Ending: Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Messages: 176

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Archived on: Fri Mar 1 11:44:00 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..43b47197 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,751 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-February Archive by Date + + + + + +

2002-February Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Fri Feb 1 00:15:50 2002
+ Ending: Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Messages: 176

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Archived on: Fri Mar 1 11:44:00 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..24a5909c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,751 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-February Archive by Subject + + + + + +

2002-February Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Fri Feb 1 00:15:50 2002
+ Ending: Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Messages: 176

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Archived on: Fri Mar 1 11:44:00 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-February/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5b97e9f9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-February/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,1063 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-February Archive by Thread + + + + + +

2002-February Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Fri Feb 1 00:15:50 2002
+ Ending: Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Messages: 176

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Feb 28 23:52:07 2002
+ Archived on: Fri Mar 1 11:44:00 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..da08b553 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,532 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-January Archive by Author + + + + + +

2002-January Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 2 17:58:42 2002
+ Ending: Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Messages: 121

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5b06f648 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,532 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-January Archive by Date + + + + + +

2002-January Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 2 17:58:42 2002
+ Ending: Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Messages: 121

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a023595a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,532 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-January Archive by Subject + + + + + +

2002-January Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 2 17:58:42 2002
+ Ending: Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Messages: 121

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-January/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..099ebe7b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-January/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,753 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-January Archive by Thread + + + + + +

2002-January Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Jan 2 17:58:42 2002
+ Ending: Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Messages: 121

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Jan 31 23:36:18 2002
+ Archived on: Thu Jan 31 17:54:01 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-March/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..796268db --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,271 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-March Archive by Date + + + + + +

2002-March Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Fri Mar 1 09:01:38 2002
+ Ending: Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002
+ Messages: 56

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002
+ Archived on: Thu Mar 14 14:35:31 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-March/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7cb146d7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,271 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-March Archive by Subject + + + + + +

2002-March Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Fri Mar 1 09:01:38 2002
+ Ending: Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002
+ Messages: 56

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002
+ Archived on: Thu Mar 14 14:35:31 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2002-March/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..40553fe6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2002-March/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,363 @@ + + + + The Nel 2002-March Archive by Thread + + + + + +

2002-March Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Fri Mar 1 09:01:38 2002
+ Ending: Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002
+ Messages: 56

+

+

+ Last message date: + Thu Mar 14 13:30:57 2002
+ Archived on: Thu Mar 14 14:35:31 2002 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/index.html b/pipermail/nel/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..598e990f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,240 @@ + + + + The Nel Archives + + + +

The Nel Archives

+

+ You can get more information about this list + or you can download the full raw archive + ( 4 MB ). +

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ArchiveView by:Downloadable version
2002-March: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 0 bytes ]
2002-February: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 173 KB ]
2002-January: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 183 KB ]
2001-December: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 57 KB ]
2001-November: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 29 KB ]
2001-October: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 52 KB ]
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2001-August: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 14 KB ]
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2001-June: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 23 KB ]
2001-May: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 1 KB ]
2001-April: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 15 KB ]
2001-March: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 32 KB ]
2001-February: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 68 KB ]
2001-January: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 27 KB ]
2000-December: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 5 KB ]
2000-November: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] + [ Gzip'd Text 30 KB ]
2000-October: + [ Thread ] + [ Subject ] + [ Author ] + [ Date ] +
+ + + -- cgit v1.2.1