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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0bb912f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html @@ -0,0 +1,186 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000235.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000238.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</H1> + <B>Vincent Archer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com" + TITLE="[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR> + <I>Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:36:33 +0100</I> + <P><UL> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000235.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000238.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Wow, lots of questions. + +Ok, I'll try to summarise the replies to your points, without too much +dilution. Bear with me, this is quite long, but I'll try to be as +unambiguous as possible. + +Jared Mark said: +><i> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, = +</I>><i> but no profit can be made on that...) +</I> +Point one: As explained somewhere else, the GPL make software "free" as +in "freedom", not "free" as in "free of charge". You can pretty well make +as much money as you want from your own game. The only thing is, if +someone who got the program requests it, you have to give them access to +the source for no more than reproduction costs on a "standard support" +(i.e. giving only printouts of the code doesn't count) and shipping charges. + +Usually, people preventively put it on a download site somewhere, so +they don't have to handle code requests on an individual basis. But +that's not mandated. + +There are also other strings attached, namely, if you use that source +you got to build a program which you distribute, you also have to provide +the modified *OR* original (if unmodified) source under the same license +terms. + +So: +><i> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... +</I> +Eagle Eye said: +><i> Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering "exactly +</I>><i> where does their code stop, and my code begin?" +</I> +But what is code exactly? Code is the little thingy that makes a lens +flare when looking toward the sun. Code is the special multipurpose +network protocol that communicate reliably across the Internet (ahem). +Code is the state automaton engine that handles your mobs. + +Code is not the 1000-line table of all items and their stats. Code is not +the list of states and transitions a mob (btw, if anyone wonders about that +term, it's an old MUD term for 'mobile object', i.e. all autonomous entities +in the game that have a behaviour, as opposed as just having properties). +Code is not the glossy metal and rivets texture on your door. Code is not +the wondrous mocaped triple head kick to smash a skull. Code is not the +cuckoo sound you hear while walking thru a forest in game. + +The GPL doesn't cover these parts at all. + +Bryce Harrington said: +><i> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while +</I>><i> releasing their source code +</I> +Minor nitpick: It's Nevrax, not NeL. NeL is the library, not the +company :) + +But that's the gist of it. We do offer the code under a GPL license, +but we retain the traditional copyright on our intellectual property. + +So, we don't want your game design. We can't get your game design. +It's all yours. But if you add code to run a game using sensor gloves as +the user interface and 3D glasses, then we have a right to request the +code for that. We can then reuse the "HOW" you use them to play, but not +the "WHY" you use them. How is code. Why is your game design. + +Eagle Eye said: +><i> Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to +</I>><i> myself? My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game... +</I>><i> the way my player housing system, and player governments system is +</I>><i> handled... is that mine to keep? I guess a lot of it depends on how I go +</I>><i> about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build +</I>><i> my world. +</I> +Hmm, we have a little legal problem there. It's basically straight copyright +law. + +Basically, you cannot copyright an idea. It's got nothing to do with whether +NeL is GPL or a $1,000,000 licensed game engine, so don't let NeL's license +stop you. + +You cannot copyright an idea. To take an example, let's say you're using +a system of skill trees that are enabled by pre-required skills, level +and required characteristics combinations, so that the "Accurate Eye Shot" +skill requires Marksmanship, a level of 17, and a minimum dexterity of 38. + +You cannot prevent anyone from using a system of skill trees that require... +(you get the gist). However, you can forbid anyone from using a set of +skills that basically is a copy of yours. They have to make their own set +of skills, and make them different "enough". That's where it gets tricky. +The "enough" part is usually settled by court when there's a dispute. +Merely renaming "Accurate Eye Shot" by "Advanced Bowmanship" doesn't +count (usually), but the frontier between "my skill trees" and "your +skill trees" isn't a straight and obvious line. + +To take a known analogy, copyright law doesn't prevent you from doing a +novel set in the south during the civil war, with romance, and all that. +However, copyright law will prevent you from calling your main character +"Scarlett O'Hara". + +Leighton Haynes said: +><i> This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to +</I>><i> 'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork, +</I>><i> but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts +</I>><i> which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, +</I>><i> and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :) +</I> +"You have entered Ankh Morpok north". :) + +(sorry for the obscure MUD reference. I do hope people will recognise it) + +To get back to the initial post +><i> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I +</I>><i> want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or +</I>><i> any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I +</I>><i> consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have +</I>><i> ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give +</I>><i> all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code? +</I> +Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are +automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your +own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database +that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items, +the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the +flag flying at the top of the keep. + +But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each +other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a +game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements. + +><i> *scratches head* +</I> +/em massages Jared's shoulders. + +-- +Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A> + +Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go! + +</pre> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000235.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li> + <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000238.html">[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> +</body></html> |