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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000002.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000002.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] What kind of game are you making?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000004.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</H1>
+ <B>david.belius@chello.se</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+ TITLE="[Nel] What kind of game are you making?">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:19:05 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello.
+I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+have to be free even though the code is free.
+I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+What kind of game are you making?
+How long have you been working on NeL?
+
+Best Regards,
+David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
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+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000003.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000003.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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+ <TITLE> [Nel] problem about the bug report interface</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:nhognon%40noos.fr">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000004.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000005.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</H1>
+ <B>Nicolas Hognon</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:nhognon%40noos.fr"
+ TITLE="[Nel] problem about the bug report interface">nhognon@noos.fr</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 08 Nov 2000 20:42:07 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hy ....
+
+yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+but i encounter a problem to report it.
+
+on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+the right part of the page is hidden
+so i use internet explorer :((
+but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+fine ....
+
+that's all ...
+
+
+--
+ Nicolas Hognon (aka SilentBob)
+ home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A> / www.cblt.org
+ work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@next-url.com">nicolash@next-url.com</A> / www.next-url.com
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000004.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000004.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] What kind of game are you making?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000002.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000003.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] What kind of game are you making?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:16:39 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A>:
+&gt;<i> I found your project on freshmeat and it looks very cool.
+</I>
+Thanks for the attention. And the questions - I'm lazy, and couldn't
+find anything to put in the FAQ yet, so your questions will serve as the
+initial set :)
+
+&gt;<i> You say that you are commercially funded and that the game data does not
+</I>&gt;<i> have to be free even though the code is free.
+</I>&gt;<i> I assume this means you are making a game out of this.
+</I>
+A good assumption. Yes, we are making a game using that platform, or
+we are making that platform for our game, depending on how you look at
+it.
+
+&gt;<i> What kind of game are you making?
+</I>
+We are working on, what else, a MMORPG &quot;whose details are yet to be
+announced (blah blah)&quot;. Due to the marketing plans putting a gun on my
+head, I'm not at a liberty to discuss the game content and so on :(
+
+We're trying to be as general as possible, but the emphasis is definitively
+on multiplayer RPG.
+
+&gt;<i> How long have you been working on NeL?
+</I>
+It depends on how you look at it. We've been in pre-planning stages since
+march 2000; looking at architecture options, development contraints,
+potentials pre-existing bits, interesting algorithms, and so on. The
+real, definitive coding has started in earnest early september, which
+is why NeL is not at the stage where you can see anything right sexy
+on your screen now; we're busy filling in the fundations of the library.
+
+With 9 full-time people on the programming staff, however, you can expect
+things to move rather fast. We do have deadlines, which include having a
+visible game skeleton within the next months, and the game proper going
+beta in late 2001, early 2002.
+
+What else can I say. We do expect to provide some form of game data quickly,
+because we don't expect everyone to suddendly turn into a professional
+3D modeler and artist to fill in, so don't despair yet at lack of game data
+(the data will reside in a separate module than the 'code' CVS module
+ available right now).
+
+Can't say what's the &quot;demo data&quot; will be, except it won't be our true
+game data, will be chilly, and you can expect to meet some non-flying birds
+all over the place :)
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000005.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] problem about the bug report interface</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:yan%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000003.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000006.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</H1>
+ <B>Yan Babilliot</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:yan%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] problem about the bug report interface">yan@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>09 Nov 2000 12:46:40 -0200</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#5">[ date ]</a>
+ <a href="thread.html#5">[ thread ]</a>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Hy ....
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> yesterday i've submited a little bug in the bug report
+</I>&gt;<i> but i encounter a problem to report it.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> on the report bug page we must select the component associated
+</I>&gt;<i> to the bug but under netscape communicator 4.76 under windows (2000)
+</I>&gt;<i> the right part of the page is hidden
+</I>&gt;<i> so i use internet explorer :((
+</I>&gt;<i> but i try this page under linux with netscape 4.75 i think and it work
+</I>&gt;<i> fine ....
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> that's all ...
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+Thank for the bug-report.
+You should now be able to report bugs with Netscape/Windows ;)
+
+
+
+--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000006.html
@@ -0,0 +1,59 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cary%40farriersoft.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000005.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000008.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+ <B>Cary Farrier</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:cary%40farriersoft.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">cary@farriersoft.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:50:21 -0800</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+(SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+
+Any thoughts?
+
+-&gt; Cary
+--
+
+Cary Farrier
+Farrier Software, Inc. (303) 875-9148 fax/message
+<A HREF="mailto:cary@farriersoft.com">cary@farriersoft.com</A> &lt;<A HREF="http://www.farriersoft.com">http://www.farriersoft.com</A>&gt;
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e4f3c544
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000007.html
@@ -0,0 +1,156 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000015.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000010.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</H1>
+ <B>Stefan Nilsen</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:43:58 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi guys.
+
+I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed
+home this thing?
+
+Look below for my trial and (mostly) error.
+
+I would like to RTFM, but i don't find any :-(
+
+Pls help me!
+
+Btw, I run SuSE 7.0 if that helps anyone, and my computer is Y2K safe :-)
+
+----- cut here -----
+
+A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+
+
+I have tried the following commands:
+aclocal
+
+(i got myself an aclocal.m4)
+
+automake
+
+automake: configure.in: required file `./install-sh' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./mkinstalldirs' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./missing' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.guess' not found
+automake: configure.in: required file `./config.sub' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./INSTALL' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./COPYING' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found
+
+automake -a
+
+automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./missing'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.guess'
+automake: configure.in: installing `./config.sub'
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./INSTALL'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: installing `./COPYING'
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found
+
+autoconf
+
+This gives me some of the missing files in the step above.
+
+automake -a (again...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+configure.in: 11: required file `./include/config.h.in' not found
+
+autoheader
+
+(silence...)
+
+automake -a (a final time...)
+
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./NEWS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./README' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./AUTHORS' not found
+automake: Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
+
+./configure
+
+...
+...
+...
+checking for fcntl.h... yes
+checking for unistd.h... yes
+checking for working const... yes
+updating cache ./config.cache
+creating ./config.status
+creating Makefile
+creating src/Makefile
+creating src/misc/Makefile
+creating src/net/Makefile
+creating include/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./include/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating lib/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./lib/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating doc/Makefile
+sed: can't read ./doc/Makefile.in: No such file or directory
+creating include/config.h
+
+make
+
+Making all in include
+make[1]: Entering directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make[1]: *** No rule to make target `all'. Stop.
+make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/stni/workproj/nel/code/nel/include'
+make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000006.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000011.html">
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+ <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:32:47 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Cary Farrier:
+&gt;<i> I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+</I>&gt;<i> to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+</I>&gt;<i> (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+</I>
+Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+
+Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..31d145c6
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000009.html
@@ -0,0 +1,62 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] List settings changes</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000019.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000012.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] List settings changes</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] List settings changes">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:41:37 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Administrative note: I've switched the list settings. Made the list
+membership private - i.e. you have to enter your password to access
+the list members, in order to avoid spammers grabbing the list -, and
+what's more important, redirected replies to mailing list itself.
+
+If you want to reply to the sender of the message itself, you now have
+to use a group reply, and then edit the recipients to remove the list.
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000010.html
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index 00000000..c2933e5c
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@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000007.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000019.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</H1>
+ <B>Valignat Cedric</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:09:32 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what do i do after i have CVS'ed
+</I>&gt;<i> home this thing?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+
+We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+
+Sorry about that ...
+
+
+&gt;<i> A loosers guide to automake! ;-)
+</I>
+Thanks for your help ! :-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000011.html
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+ <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000008.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000013.html">
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+ <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+ <B>Bryce Harrington</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+ TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 02:22:23 -0800 (PST)</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
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+ </LI>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Cary,
+
+The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+
+Simple answer: Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+
+Longer answer:
+<A HREF="http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/docs/stlhelp.txt">http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/docs/stlhelp.txt</A>
+
+The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+than by Microsoft. Detailed errata is available here:
+ <A HREF="http://www.dinkumware.com/">http://www.dinkumware.com/</A>
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+&gt;<i> According to Cary Farrier:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+</I>&gt;<i> interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+</I>&gt;<i> there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+</I>&gt;<i> for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+</I>&gt;<i> you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+--
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000012.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] WorldForge</TITLE>
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+ <B>Olivier Lejade</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:29:31 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>).
+Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000013.html
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+ <TITLE> [Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000011.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000015.html">
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+ <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+ <B>Vianney Lecroart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:43:48 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+</I>&gt;<i> very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Simple answer: Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+</I>
+ok, this define disables the macro min &amp; max, it's same behavior as doing
+#undef min #undef max
+but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+*no* min
+definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &amp;
+max
+template function in our code... no very cool...
+
+&gt;<i> Longer answer:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I><A HREF="http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/doc">http://www.isis.ecs.soton.ac.uk/share/problems/fuzzyClouds/NetMet/netmet/doc</A>
+s/stlhelp.txt
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> The STL that ships with Visual C++ was developed by Dinkumware, rather
+</I>&gt;<i> than by Microsoft. Detailed errata is available here:
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.dinkumware.com/">http://www.dinkumware.com/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Bryce
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vincent Archer wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; According to Cary Farrier:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; I just updated from the latest CVS snapshot, added r:\code\net\include
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; to the project settings, however when compiling matrix.cpp in VC++ 6.0
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; (SP3) the compiler is complaining that 'max is not a member of std'.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Note that, strictly speaking, bug reports should go thru the web
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; interface rather than the mailing list. It's a lot easier to manage
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; there. Use the mailing list if you can't access the WWW at all
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; for some reason (like being buried deep behind 4 firewalls that require
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; you to sign in blood to access the outside world).
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Bug reported to the developper in charge.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Bryce Harrington
+</I>&gt;<i> bryce @ neptune.net
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000014.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000014.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+ <B>Thierry Mallard</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:39:36 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Greetings to you all ... :-)
+
+
+On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+&gt;<i> Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.=">http://www.worldforge.=</A>
+</I>org).
+
+Whooo hooo :-)
+
+&gt;<i> Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+</I>
+Good question, I'm listening too ..
+
+ Thierry Mallard, a.k.a Shaman on Worldforge.org ;-)
+ (who didn't do much on this)
+
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard | =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A> | =20
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoL0GgACgkQGBtCB6PQIcs6PACgyR9Uzbymw/yEYYnbrhGLulAl
+a88AoJxjE9nBMJkE1+yXHk2LjzTTEWXe
+=hdVU
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</H1>
+ <B>Bryce Harrington</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+ TITLE="[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 03:43:08 -0800 (PST)</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Heh, well sorry but that's MS for ya...
+
+As I recall, if you go MFC-free this particular issue will vanish.
+However there are other insidious STL bugs with Visual C++.
+
+If in fact you are using MFC, I would urge you to cease doing so at the
+earliest convenience. Not only for portability reasons (MFC *ain't*
+portable, especially not backwards-wise) but also because it is a poor
+architecture for GUI development, and is not really in the GPL spirit of
+things. If you intend to conduct your development openly as a net
+project, then crossplatformness is going to be especially treasured by
+you. There are many options for crossplatform GUI libs. Let me know if
+you'd like to discuss this more. My two preferred libs are wxWindows
+(good for OS-matching widgets for editors and similar), or libuta (SDL
+compatible and skinnable). Mozilla has another cross platform GUI lib
+but I've not used it in its current incarnation so don't know whether
+it's usable independently of Mozilla.
+
+FWIW, I always stick this boilerplate code in any file that uses STL
+that I'd like to compile with MSVC 4.2:
+
+#ifdef _MSC_VER
+// Fix broken STL implementation in MSVC 4.2
+// Include files (for MSVC)
+#pragma warning(disable: 4786) // Kludge to get around bug in MSVC 4.2
+#pragma warning(disable: 4788) // See above
+#endif
+
+I think you may be stuck including your own max/min template functions.
+That's a pretty minor thing compared with some of the patches you may
+have to make to work around some of the other issues (especially if you
+want to support pre-6.0 MSVC).
+
+Ultimately, you're going to want to trim down use of STL anyway, so you
+can recover the performance loss. We still use STL at WorldForge, for
+instance, but some simple tests show that hand coded, non-templated map
+and list classes provide some modest performance gains, and some day
+when we're down to squeezing out the last bits of performance, we'll
+probably be pulling STL out ourselves.
+
+Bryce
+
+On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; The VC++/STL min/max problem is pretty well known, and is a result of a
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; very buggy STL implementation in VC++, and some lawsuits.
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Simple answer: Define NOMINMAX in your Build Settings
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> ok, this define disables the macro min &amp; max, it's same behavior as doing
+</I>&gt;<i> #undef min #undef max
+</I>&gt;<i> but I search min in the VC include directory and subdirectory and there s
+</I>&gt;<i> *no* min
+</I>&gt;<i> definition in the STL (no template min) so we have to define our own min &amp;
+</I>&gt;<i> max
+</I>&gt;<i> template function in our code... no very cool...
+</I>
+--
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+</pre>
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+ <B>Bryce Harrington</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:bryce%40neptune.net"
+ TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">bryce@neptune.net</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:03:48 -0800 (PST)</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+&gt;<i> On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>).
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Whooo hooo :-)
+</I>
+*Grin* Hiya.
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Good question, I'm listening too ..
+</I>
+Ah, well at this point I'm just being a pair of ears. I'm hoping to get
+a pointer to something describing what the group's plan is or some feel
+for the &quot;big picture&quot;.
+
+(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+get to roast a marshmallow or two. *wink*)
+
+--
+Bryce Harrington
+bryce @ neptune.net
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] WorldForge</H1>
+ <B>Olivier Lejade</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:olivier%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] WorldForge">olivier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:18:09 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>At 03:03 PM 11/10/00 -0800, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Thierry Mallard wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:29:31AM +0100, Olivier Lejade wrote:
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; Well, it seems like we have our first celebrity on the list ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; The coordinator of the WorldForge project himself
+</I>&gt;<i> (<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>).
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Whooo hooo :-)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>*Grin* Hiya.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; &gt; Welcome Bryce ! So what do you think of NeL ?
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Good question, I'm listening too ..
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>(I've seen a depressingly large number of well-meaning groups trying the
+</I>&gt;<i>combined commercial and open source approach for game development and
+</I>&gt;<i>crash and burn spectacularly, so I figure either I'll learn something or
+</I>&gt;<i>get to roast a marshmallow or two. *wink*)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>--
+</I>&gt;<i>Bryce Harrington
+</I>&gt;<i>bryce @ neptune.net
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>_______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i>Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i><A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+--
+&quot;Minds are like parachutes. They work best when open.&quot;
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+ <B>Sal</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:18:21 -0500</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+First a little rant to explain my being here: :-)
+
+ I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce. Though not nearly as
+famous ;-) I stumbled upon Nevrax the other day and am very interested in
+its development. My goal a few years back was to help create a free,
+massively multiplayer online RPG system, one that I could enjoy myself and
+that others could build from to make their own persistant online worlds.
+And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+to achieve such a goal.
+
+ Most opensource projects that start up have caught my eye, the first
+being the Ultima online emulator scene which I was a part of for a long
+time, coding admin tools, NPC ai, network code, etc. Whatever seemed the
+most challenging task. I got soon fed up with having to deal with the idea
+that all the hard work might not even turn out to be legal, and all the
+problems that OSI provided for the emu scene I didnt care for. So I then
+came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+gaming system.
+
+ So I took on the responsibility of developer XClient, a 3d client. The
+root of its homepage is here, if anyone's interested:
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/">http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/</A>
+
+ Some shots of its recent developments (a terrain engine) are here:
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain1.jpg">http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain1.jpg</A>
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain2.jpg">http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/terrain2.jpg</A>
+ (Its very early in development)
+
+ Some old out of date client shots:
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/screenshots/">http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/screenshots/</A>
+
+ And lastly, a goals paper that I've recently written to illustrate what
+the goals are in XClient development. This one I recommend reading above
+the others.
+<A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/developer/goals">http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/xclient/developer/goals</A>
+
+ I've also created a Map editor (XEdit) a UDP networking library based
+off of the GPLd quake code (XUDP) and a simple test server (XServer). All
+of this and XClient are in Worldforge cvs for those interested. If there
+are questions about any of these things, please ask!
+
+ Anyhow, yes there is a point to all this. It seems that a lot of
+Worldforge's goals and development are in tandem with Nevrax's. So, I
+thought it would be worth it to see 1) how compatible our projects are and
+2) if we might be able to help each other out in any form, whether it be
+artwork, code, or knowledge. 3) how much interest, if any, there is in
+sharing efforts.
+
+ So if I could ask a few questions. I tried finding out some information
+through the website, but some questions remain:
+
+1) I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+project also developing a specific game that uses the library? If so what
+details of it are known? As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+
+2) What is the development strategy? For example Worldforge will be
+developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'. Will you guys be
+doing a similar thing?
+
+3) What features/goals are there for the 3d engine? What's being targeted
+(high end/low end hardware)? What rendering APIs? Software mode?
+
+4) I get this question a lot :-) Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+
+5) What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+
+6) Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+
+7) Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started? And if
+so, why was it deemed necessary to start another, independant effort with
+the same goals?
+
+8) Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will use
+in the following areas:
+ - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+ - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+ - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+any?)
+ - Model format(s)
+ - Texture format(s)
+
+9) How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+free software? :-)
+
+
+ Thats about all I have for now. I'm sure more will come up in the
+future. You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair questions.
+
+ Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+efforts. Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working towards.
+I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+
+- Sal
+<A HREF="mailto:sferro@wojo.com">sferro@wojo.com</A>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000019.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000019.html
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+ <TITLE> [Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000010.html">
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+ <H1>[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</H1>
+ <B>Stefan Nilsen</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sat, 11 Nov 2000 22:55:37 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> At the moment the library is compiling only on Visual C++ :-(
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We are currently working on this problem, it sould be fix soon.
+</I>
+Ok, that explains it. Maybe I'm not stupid after all... :-)
+
+
+</pre>
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Some Linux patches</H1>
+ <B>Stefan Nilsen</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Some Linux patches">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:04:22 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I made som fixes for compile on Linux.
+
+This is the first time i submit a patch, so please tell me if i'm doing
+anything wrong.
+
+Index: Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -r1.1 Makefile.am
+9c9
+&lt; SUBDIRS= include src lib doc
+---
+&gt;<i> SUBDIRS= src doc
+</I>Index: src/net/base_socket.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.16
+diff -r1.16 base_socket.cpp
+40a41,42
+&gt;<i> #define __need_timeval
+</I>&gt;<i> #include &lt;bits/time.h&gt;
+</I>42c44
+&lt; #include &lt;netinet/tcp/h&gt;
+---
+&gt;<i> #include &lt;netinet/tcp.h&gt;
+</I>261c263
+&lt; int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+&gt;<i> socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+</I>344c346
+&lt; int saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+---
+&gt;<i> socklen_t saddrlen = sizeof(saddr);
+</I>374c376
+&lt;
+---
+&gt;<i>
+</I>
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+ <B>Olivier Lejade</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:lejade%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">lejade@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:58:30 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Sal,
+
+My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too
+much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically
+oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it
+would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in the
+FAQ.
+I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+
+At 04:18 PM 11/11/00 -0500, you wrote:
+&gt;<i>I am also a Worldforge developer, like Bryce. Though not nearly as
+</I>&gt;<i>famous ;-)
+</I>
+Or so you think... ;)
+
+&gt;<i>And a commercial effort such as Nevrax could be a powerful force in helping
+</I>&gt;<i>to achieve such a goal.
+</I>
+Thanks for the attention.
+We hope and believe so too.
+
+&gt;<i>So I then
+</I>&gt;<i>came across Worldforge, and that is where I am. Finally a totally free
+</I>&gt;<i>opensource project that met, if not exceeded my own standards for an online
+</I>&gt;<i>gaming system.
+</I>
+Yes, WorldForge is a very impressive project with a very, very large scope.
+We are all admirative of your capacity to handle such a large and diverse
+community. Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially
+daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+
+Here at Nevrax, we do not intend to have such a large range of activity. We
+are concentrating on a 3D client (no 2D, text, etc) and we are doing all
+the artwork/game design internally.
+Nevrax.org will focus on fostering a &quot;technical&quot; community.
+
+&gt;<i>1) how compatible our projects are
+</I>
+I'll let the coders answer on the technical aspect. However, on a more
+philosophical point of vue, I'd say our project are very compatible,
+siblings really, since they are both GPL.
+
+&gt;<i>1) I understand that Nel will be a library to create games, but is this
+</I>&gt;<i>project also developing a specific game that uses the library?
+</I>
+Yes. we are currently developing a yet unannounced commercial MMORPG.
+
+&gt;<i>If so what
+</I>&gt;<i>details of it are known? As far as ruleset... gameplay...
+</I>
+At this time, I'm sorry to say we cannot disclose any information
+concerning game design / artwork. However things are bound to change as we
+go along, and some information will start trickling out in the coming months.
+
+&gt;<i>2) What is the development strategy? For example Worldforge will be
+</I>&gt;<i>developing several smaller diverse games in succession (Acorn, Mason... etc.
+</I>&gt;<i>etc.) until we reach the final goal, entitled 'BelchFire'. Will you guys be
+</I>&gt;<i>doing a similar thing?
+</I>
+Not in the sense of WF (i.e lots of intermediary games). We are working on
+a single game. However, we do have a number of milestones. Also by the end
+of the year, we will be disclosing a &quot;sample world&quot; under an open content
+license for the community to kick around and have fun with. But this will
+have nothing to do with our final game.
+
+&gt;<i>4) I get this question a lot :-) Why develop a 3d engine from scratch? Why
+</I>&gt;<i>not use/build from an existing engine, such as Crystal Space?
+</I>
+We checked out CS of course as well as many others, and while it is a very
+nice engine, it did not seem to fit our particular needs.
+
+&gt;<i>6) Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+</I>&gt;<i>internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+</I>
+Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting software,
+however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And
+while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile
+functionnality.
+
+On the game content side though, we are keeping things to ourselves for now.
+Expect to be really, really suprised though... :)
+
+&gt;<i>7) Was there knowledge of Worldforge when this project was started? And if
+</I>&gt;<i>so, why was it deemed necessary to start another, independant effort with
+</I>&gt;<i>the same goals?
+</I>
+Yes, we knew of WF (actually, since the time it was called Altima !).
+We took some time to consider joining the effort, however we felt there was
+a number of reasons for not doing so. I'll give you some of them :
+
+- We wanted to keep a tight focus on the game we are doing and did not want
+to be hindered in political struggles to get the code where we needed. We
+felt the WF community might ressent us steering in directions that they
+would not care for. We have a tight schedule : we want the game out in 2002.
+Which means we could'nt spare to much time arguing about it.
+
+- We have different goals : we are a commercial entity. We don't have the
+educational/hobbyist approach of WF. Nevrax has a complete team of seasoned
+professionals not only at the programming level, but also on the design /
+3D artwork / concept side working every day towards one goal : getting the
+game out.
+
+- We have a highly original world which poses a great number of
+constraints. We felt we would be in a better position to adress them by
+leading our own effort.
+
+That said, I must emphasize that we do not see ourselves as &quot;competing&quot;
+with WF. We are simply two different projects, taking two different
+approach at building a Free Software system for MMORPGs. Diversity is A
+Good Thing.
+I wish WF will succeed and I hope there will be as much cooperation between
+the two projects as possible.
+
+&gt;<i>9) How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+</I>&gt;<i>free software? :-)
+</I>
+Ah ha ! :)
+
+Free Software doesn't mean free content or free service.
+While our software is Free, we retain property of our game data. And to
+access our servers in order to play our game, users will be asked to pay a
+monthly fee just like with the other commercial games.
+
+Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match.
+And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening
+our source code.
+
+I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise
+even more questions !
+
+Thanks for your encouragments,
+
+Olivier
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+ <B>Sal</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:34:56 -0500</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Hi Sal,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> My name is Olivier Lejade, I am Nevrax's CEO. I won't be intervening too
+</I>&gt;<i> much on this list since we really would like to keep things technically
+</I>&gt;<i> oriented, but since there seems to be so a lot of questions, I figured it
+</I>&gt;<i> would be a good idea to answer some of them here so that they can go in
+</I>the
+&gt;<i> FAQ.
+</I>&gt;<i> I'll leave the technically oriented ones to the Code Team though.
+</I>
+ Thank you for taking the time to respond Olivier, this clears up a lot
+of questions!
+
+&gt;<i> Managing a team of artists over the internet is especially
+</I>&gt;<i> daunting and WF has accomplished an incredible feat in this area.
+</I>&gt;<i> As Bryce kindly reminded me, code is cheap compared to Art...
+</I>
+ I very much agree here. In my experience I've discovered that media is
+very hard to come by. Talented artists don't like to work for free, and who
+can blame them, a lot of the industry's tools are expensive and take a lot
+of effort and time to learn. I think this is one of the biggest obstacles
+in free game software development, the lack of good, free media. If Nevrax
+is able to help out in this area, the opensource commmunity, Worldforge
+included, would be very grateful...
+
+[ ... ]
+&gt;<i> Well, we are following an internal plan and Freeing the resulting
+</I>software,
+&gt;<i> however we are very open to outside influence on technical aspects. And
+</I>&gt;<i> while we concentrate on our priorities, we will integrate any worthwhile
+</I>&gt;<i> functionnality.
+</I>[ ... ]
+
+ I understand your intentions. With openness in development comes
+conflict in views on many issues. As a project under a tight schedule,
+resolving all issues in the open might not be the most efficient approach
+timewise.
+
+ If there still is any desire to collaborate on things such as client
+engine design, I would be happy to. If XClient and the Nel client could be
+made more compatible in any way, I think it would be worth the effort. If
+similairity in protocol could be obtained, then our software could
+communicate with each other. Likewise, if rendering architecture was
+similair, we could collaborate on, and/or share pieces of code for the game
+engines. Either way I think it could mean saving work and time for the both
+of us...
+
+ On the other hand, collaborating would logically take some effort, which
+I understand Nevrax may or may not have the time for. It still might be
+worth considering, at any rate.
+
+&gt;<i> Bottom line is : Free Software and commercial MMORPGs are a perfect match.
+</I>&gt;<i> And we believe we have everything to gain and nothing to loose by opening
+</I>&gt;<i> our source code.
+</I>
+ Here I very much agree, also!
+
+&gt;<i> I hope this clarifies things a little even though I'm sure it will raise
+</I>&gt;<i> even more questions !
+</I>
+ Thanks again! And I await the answers to the other, more technical
+questions. ;-)
+
+- Sal
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+ <B>Vianney Lecroart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:37:49 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello sal!
+
+&gt;<i> 3) What features/goals are there for the 3d engine? What's being
+</I>targeted
+&gt;<i> (high end/low end hardware)? What rendering APIs? Software mode?
+</I>
+you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+features
+of the 3d engine (<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html</A>)
+that we plan to develop.
+
+&gt;<i> 5) What are the capabilities of the current codebase?
+</I>
+hum... good question :-) today, the code is not able to do lot of things but
+it'll change in few weeks. the misc component contains lot of really cool
+tools like serializable system, input events system, internationalization,
+math classes, etc...
+there's only the skeleton of the 3d engine but, low level layers start to
+work
+and it'll display polygons in few days :) the low interface font manager is
+ready
+to display text and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+theses
+tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+for the network components, all communication layers are available.
+the service based class is ready too and will be extented in the futur.
+few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+we'll work on a &quot;client&quot; exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+perhaps, display someting :)
+
+&gt;<i> 6) Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+</I>&gt;<i> internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+</I>
+We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software community.
+
+&gt;<i> 8) Would it be possible to get a brief description of what Nevrax will
+</I>use
+&gt;<i> in the following areas:
+</I>
+is the whitepaper not enough? ok , we ll add some stuffs on it :)
+
+&gt;<i> - Protocol (UDP? TCP/IP?)
+</I>
+for now, we only manage TCP/IP and plan to use UDP only the visual effect
+like
+smooth dead reckoning (the standard dead reckoning will be in TCP/IP for
+some
+cheating reasons)
+
+&gt;<i> - Mapfile format (Custom? XML? Binary? Database-Driven?)
+</I>
+we use a generic streamable and serializable system so we don't have any
+file format :-)
+it's a really powerful system!!! and so easy to manage!
+
+&gt;<i> - Mapfile editors (What existing tools will be used, if
+</I>&gt;<i> any?)
+</I>
+we use 3ds max only, and we create plugins for our needs.
+
+&gt;<i> - Model format(s)
+</I>
+same as mapfile :)
+
+&gt;<i> - Texture format(s)
+</I>
+we use .dds format for pre-compressed texture format (DXTC*) and
+pre-computed mimap.
+we also use .tga for normal texture/image :-)
+
+&gt;<i> 9) How the heck do you guys manage to pay a full development team off of
+</I>&gt;<i> free software? :-)
+</I>
+we are paid, i can confirm :-)
+
+&gt;<i> Thats about all I have for now. I'm sure more will come up in the
+</I>&gt;<i> future. You might want to put a few of those in the FAQ, I've noticed its
+</I>&gt;<i> in need of some fulfilling... and other people may have similair
+</I>questions.
+
+yes, we'll add these questions in the FAQ!
+
+&gt;<i> Anyhow, thanks in advance, and Congratulations and Good Luck in your
+</I>&gt;<i> efforts. Its a challenging and rewarding goal that we are working
+</I>towards.
+&gt;<i> I look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas in the near future!
+</I>
+thanks
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Linux build</H1>
+ <B>Dim Segebart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Linux build">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:05:30 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello, to all !
+Nice to see what all my dreams come true )))
+I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+able to put our hands on it ?
+This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+VC++
+installed ;))
+Wish you good luck
+
+--
+Dim Zager
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000025.html
new file mode 100644
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+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <H1>[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</H1>
+ <B>Sal</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:40:01 -0500</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello Vianney, I'm glad to have made acquaintance with the lead programmer
+of this amazing effort!
+
+&gt;<i> Hello sal!
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; 3) What features/goals are there for the 3d engine? What's being
+</I>&gt;<i> targeted
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; (high end/low end hardware)? What rendering APIs? Software mode?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> you can take a look on the nel whitepaper, it explains (briefly) all
+</I>&gt;<i> features
+</I>&gt;<i> of the 3d engine (<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/general.html</A>)
+</I>&gt;<i> that we plan to develop.
+</I>
+ Thanks for your time in answering my questions. I took the time the
+other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code. I
+must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an early
+stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+
+&gt;<i> few services run too, so you can compile our first service executables :)
+</I>&gt;<i> we'll work on a &quot;client&quot; exectuable to explains how to use nel and
+</I>&gt;<i> perhaps, display someting :)
+</I>
+ A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+this neat stuff! This would logically be needed for testing and developing
+new features, also.
+
+ Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it seems
+to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress? ( I have
+nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might be
+of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+
+&gt;<i> [...] and we work hardly on tools for the graphics team (but
+</I>&gt;<i> theses
+</I>&gt;<i> tools are still private cause of 3ds max sdk).
+</I>
+ This raises a question I've been pondering myself. I've also recently
+created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated characters
+from character studio. Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it? I wasn't
+able to resolve this from the documention included. I know that the sdk
+itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+o.k...
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; 6) Is development open to outside influence? Or are you following an
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; internal-only plan, and just opensourcing the results?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> We Want You! :-) of course we hope to work with the free software
+</I>community.
+
+ Thats great to hear. I (and I'm sure many others) would like to see
+this operation become a success, and would like to help it do so. As is
+evident with the existance of projects like Worldforge, one can see that a
+GPLish mmorpg system is very desired by many people. I also think it would
+be cool if Nevrax showed the world that Free Software works, even in the
+commercial market... and maybe help encourage other companies to do the same
+in the future.
+
+Thanks again for the info!
+- Sal
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000026.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000026.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+ <B>Vianney Lecroart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:11:39 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello all,
+
+&gt;<i> Thanks for your time in answering my questions. I took the time the
+</I>&gt;<i> other day to read all the documentation, and look at the source code. I
+</I>&gt;<i> must say, it is well structured, easy to understand, and well commented.
+</I>&gt;<i> And its good to see that the code is being documented well at such an
+</I>early
+&gt;<i> stage. Good work, and I hope it keeps it up like this!
+</I>
+Thanks a lot :) We hope to continue in this way!
+
+&gt;<i> A client executable would be nice, I'm interested in playing with all
+</I>&gt;<i> this neat stuff! This would logically be needed for testing and
+</I>developing
+&gt;<i> new features, also.
+</I>
+In a first time, this client will do nothing else than init the nel lib and
+perhaps
+display a text and a triangle :) be patient!
+
+&gt;<i> Btw, I noticed that the OpenGL renderer is well abstracted, and it
+</I>seems
+&gt;<i> to me that a Direct3D renderer would not be very hard to create.
+</I>&gt;<i> Coincidentally I'm working on a new DirectX 8/d3d renderer for xclient. If
+</I>&gt;<i> theres interest I could help create a Direct3D implementation of your
+</I>&gt;<i> rendering interface in the future. Or is one already in progress? ( I
+</I>have
+&gt;<i> nothing against OpenGL, its just that I have experience in d3d that might
+</I>be
+&gt;<i> of help, and Direct3D performs well on my system. )
+</I>
+Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+things that
+the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+should wait the
+end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+
+&gt;<i> This raises a question I've been pondering myself. I've also recently
+</I>&gt;<i> created MAX plugins for xclient, for exporting skeletal animated
+</I>characters
+&gt;<i> from character studio. Do you (or anyone) know offhand if the sources to
+</I>&gt;<i> these are distributable? Or does the sdk licensing prohibit it? I wasn't
+</I>&gt;<i> able to resolve this from the documention included. I know that the sdk
+</I>&gt;<i> itself isn't distributable, but I had hoped that derivative works were
+</I>&gt;<i> o.k...
+</I>
+I'm not able to answer, perhaps our 3d code lead could answer this.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++&gt;+$ E+&gt;- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000027.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000027.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+ <B>Dim Segebart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:36:31 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Best regards,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i> ---
+</I>&gt;<i> lead programmer / nevrax.com
+</I>&gt;<i> homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+</I>
+At least we know the name of game itself :))
+&gt;<i>From Vianney's home page - Ryzom game for Nevrax
+</I>www.ryzom.com - very similar to www.transmeta.com in early days (but without
+hidden msg )))
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000028.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] Linux build</H1>
+ <B>Valignat Cedric</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Linux build">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:51:25 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi Dim,
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I know what linux autoconf stuff isn't ready yet, but
+</I>&gt;<i> anyway may I ask developers of NeL when we might be
+</I>&gt;<i> able to put our hands on it ?
+</I>
+Soon ... ;-)
+
+You should be able to get Nel to compile on Linux in the following days.
+
+
+&gt;<i> This is not a problem for me to create one by myself, by I'm
+</I>&gt;<i> afraid it's not a very good idea, since I lack the knowledge of
+</I>&gt;<i> internal dependencies and too lazy to reboot my PC in windows mode with
+</I>&gt;<i> VC++ installed ;))
+</I>
+I see very well what you mean ... :-)
+
+
+&gt;<i> Wish you good luck
+</I>
+Thanks a lot.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d12aef71
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000029.html
@@ -0,0 +1,67 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Flexibility</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000028.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000031.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+ <B>david.belius@chello.se</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:59:58 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi
+
+I'm wondering how general the nel library will be. Will it be a *MMORPG*
+engine or will it be more general so i can e.g. make a Massive Multiplay
+Online Real Time Stragegy game(MMORTS =)?
+Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+
+/David
+
+PS.
+I just found out that Vianney was in the Outcast team! How cool isnt
+that?
+DS.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000030.html
new file mode 100644
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+ <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+ <B>david.belius@chello.se</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+ TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:05:08 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i> Yeah!!! It was in our external todo list. We wrote a list containing all
+</I>&gt;<i> things that
+</I>&gt;<i> the free software community could do on nel and the dx driver is on it! :)
+</I>&gt;<i> You 'only' have to rewrite the 3d layer1 ! ;)
+</I>&gt;<i> In fact, the 3d driver layer (layer1) isn't really fixed for now so you
+</I>&gt;<i> should wait the
+</I>&gt;<i> end this month before write a dx version because the API may change.
+</I>
+Have you put this list online?
+It would be nice to get some orders so I could start contributing =)
+
+/David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000031.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ca099c02
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+ <TITLE> [Nel] Flexibility</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+ <B>Ludovic LIEVRE</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:ludovic.lievre%40chaman.net"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">ludovic.lievre@chaman.net</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:10:49 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+&lt;SNIP&gt;
+
+&gt;<i> Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+</I>
+A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+french company where I'm currently working.
+The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+released in 2001.
+Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+
+
+Ludo
+
+--
+Ludovic LIEVRE
+Chaman Productions
+mailto:<A HREF="mailto:ludo@chaman.net">ludo@chaman.net</A>
+
+&quot;Give me a museum and I'll fill it.&quot;
+Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+ <B>sameh chafik Pro</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:33:22 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>It smell shark!
+you don't feel the same smell?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;Ludovic LIEVRE&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:ludovic.lievre@chaman.net">ludovic.lievre@chaman.net</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 5:10 PM
+Subject: RE: [Nel] Flexibility
+
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &lt;SNIP&gt;
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Making a MMORTS warcraft type game is a dream of mine. =)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+</I>&gt;<i> french company where I'm currently working.
+</I>&gt;<i> The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+</I>&gt;<i> released in 2001.
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Ludo
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> Ludovic LIEVRE
+</I>&gt;<i> Chaman Productions
+</I>&gt;<i> mailto:<A HREF="mailto:ludo@chaman.net">ludo@chaman.net</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;Give me a museum and I'll fill it.&quot;
+</I>&gt;<i> Pablo Picasso (1881-1973)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <H1>[Nel] Flexibility</H1>
+ <B>david.belius@chello.se</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:26:49 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+</I>&gt;<i> french company where I'm currently working.
+</I>&gt;<i> The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+</I>&gt;<i> released in 2001.
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+</I>
+Please, please, please, please could you get me into the beta test =)
+I'd relly appriciate it.
+
+/David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000034.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</H1>
+ <B>david.belius@chello.se</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Flexibility (oops)">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:29:14 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> A game of this type is currently in development by Chaman Productions, a
+</I>&gt;<i> french company where I'm currently working.
+</I>&gt;<i> The game is called Forteresse (<A HREF="http://www.forteresse.com">http://www.forteresse.com</A>) and will be
+</I>&gt;<i> released in 2001.
+</I>&gt;<i> Sorry, we are not open source like Nel
+</I>
+I didnt find that beta test joining page at first. =/
+Ignore my pathetic begging. ;)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000035.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] my last email :)</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000027.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000036.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] my last email :)</H1>
+ <B>Dim Segebart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] my last email :)">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:43:16 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> &gt; Best regards,
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt;
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; Vianney Lecroart
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; ---
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; lead programmer / nevrax.com
+</I>&gt;<i> &gt; homepage: <A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> At least we know the name of game itself :))
+</I>
+He he ... :))
+I wouldn't insist on revealing name of the game. I'm respecting
+commercial nature of this project. Without it NeL wasn't be born at all
+of was not available under GPL
+Hope, I didn't destroy you plans too mach ... ))
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <H1>[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</H1>
+ <B>Dim Segebart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:34:09 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Ok, after browsing game projects which mentioned on
+<A HREF="http://ace.planet-d.net">http://ace.planet-d.net</A> I come to conclusion
+what your new game will be really MASSIVELY multi-user with _very_
+detailed world(s) running in your
+universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+street (or any other type of portal, analog of &lt;a href&gt; in HTML)
+he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+I think what mechanism of linking between different worlds similar to
+WWW will be a good starting point for
+creating Internet2 (why not ? ;))
+What's about starting RFC for WCP (World Communicating Protocol) ?
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <H1>[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</H1>
+ <B>Dan Ellis</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:dan%40isvara.net"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">dan@isvara.net</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:52:01 +0000 (GMT)</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Tue, 14 Nov 2000, Dim Segebart wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> universe. So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+</I>&gt;<i> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+</I>&gt;<i> for example, when player passing the doors of some building on the
+</I>&gt;<i> street (or any other type of portal, analog of &lt;a href&gt; in HTML)
+</I>&gt;<i> he just enter the different world, which running on completely different
+</I>&gt;<i> hardware. I'm sure, you already have such
+</I>&gt;<i> portals in you project. But I'm afraid, this feature limited by the
+</I>&gt;<i> nameSpace of single NeL server, am I right ?
+</I>
+This is something the Afterscape Project will allow. It will be a very
+distributed universe that will allow delegation of zones to other servers.
+
+--
+Dan Ellis &lt;<A HREF="mailto:dan@isvara.net">dan@isvara.net</A>&gt;
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <H1>[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</H1>
+ <B>Thierry Mallard</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:20:26 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 08:34:09PM +0100, Dim Segebart wrote:
+&gt;<i> [...] So, I just thinking about possibility of linking worlds, which
+</I>&gt;<i> is NeL based, similar to WWW -
+</I>
+This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+too, although that seemed less important...=20
+
+But definitly that could be a good idea to implement now ;-)
+
+
+ Shaman
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard | =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A> | =20
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoSVVoACgkQGBtCB6PQIcvBigCgxq5rFlp3v+hdSzp3pw+nFgWF
+LZ0AoJOg37O2L9uTxXISsGf+E8XsZIn+
+=RzT/
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--PEIAKu/WMn1b1Hv9--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 15 Nov 2000 17:27:27 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<PRE>According to Thierry Mallard:
+&gt;<i> This is something I though about in the Genesis project (yes I know,
+</I>&gt;<i> not very original name ;-) a few years ago. The problems we found
+</I>&gt;<i> were the consistency of the global universe, and the trust we could
+</I>&gt;<i> have to any server. For example : who managed the characters ? who
+</I>&gt;<i> can we trust for them ? There can be a time line synchronisation problem
+</I>&gt;<i> too, although that seemed less important...
+</I>
+In a very different world (and a closed system implementation), it's also
+something Bioware's NeverWinterNights wants to achieve. Their model allows
+servers (what they call modules, which is in fact a process running a
+specific area - but you can have multiples instances concurrently running
+on the same CPU) to link to each other.
+
+Of course, their model is simpler: all servers are guaranteed to run the
+same software (it autoupdates over the Internet), the character formats are
+well defined, and the characters are ultimately stored on a central database
+(the NWN Vault) who enforces &quot;plausibility&quot; on the characters (a level 1
+cannot get to level 6 and 70,000 XP points in an hour of playtime; a level 3
+character cannot have a plate+2, a cloak of displacement and boots of speed,
+and so on).
+
+And they do not want to inforce any universe continuity: each server admin
+has to do it, by allowing other modules to link to yours or not.
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
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+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:12:16 +0100</I>
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+<PRE>One thing from previous questions that wasn't much developped upon.
+
+Networking.
+
+The original question was &quot;do you use TCP or UDP for networking&quot;. My
+initial impulse was to reply &quot;we use RDP, of course&quot; (for those who do not
+know what RDP is, check /etc/protocols, number 27). But alas, Vianney beat
+me to the answer, so I have to be truthful.
+
+The question is: what do you use networking for, and why does the question
+on the use of TCP vs the use of UDP arises?
+
+Because, in most protocols design, this question never arises: one is clearly
+superior to the other. Why is that the question stands for a MMOG?
+
+If you look at the information elements that have to be transmitted from a
+client to the server and back, you see that they can be somehow separated
+across two different categories:
+
+1) Long-lived elements of information
+and
+2) Short-lived elements of information
+
+You may also separate on a different axis
+
+1) Uncorrectable elements of information
+and
+2) Correctable elements of information
+
+Uncorrectable elements of information are elements whose omission render the
+game state incompatible between client and server and require the transmission
+of said element, while correctable information can be overriden by a different
+game element.
+
+A few examples:
+
+- NPC X is dead: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+- critter C has N hp: this is a long-lived/correctable element
+- critter C is at X/Y/Z facing direction D: this is short-lived/correctable
+- I am casting spell C: this is a long-lived/uncorrectable element
+
+Note that I can't find an example of short-lived, yet uncorrectable element.
+Any ideas?
+
+What do you face here? You face very different information elements. Some
+MUST be there for the world to make sense. So you have to guarantee their
+transmission: TCP makes sense. On the other hand, you have some that are
+quickly obsolete, and do not matter when lost. For them the whole TCP
+retransmission/guarantee of delivery is useless and a waste of ressources.
+
+So how do you design your protocol. You can take the short, easy route:
+use TCP (and lose performance for your position updates - which are by far
+the most numerous elements you get). You can take the long, hard route:
+use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+
+Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides you
+the service guarantee you need).
+
+One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows you to
+bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP protocol
+path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+compatible with TCP streaming).
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+ <B>Sal</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:sferro%40wojo.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">sferro@wojo.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:32:09 -0500</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> You can take the long, hard route:
+</I>&gt;<i> use UDP (and code redundancy for the elements you need to guarantee
+</I>&gt;<i> transmission of, putting some badly made subset of TCP in it).
+</I>
+ I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage two
+sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP. Also the important
+data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text. Most data in a networked
+game is usually skippable. I think this is why most games use simple UDP,
+because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little data
+that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+o.k. The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+
+&gt;<i> Or you can take the smart route: use two protocol paths, one which carries
+</I>&gt;<i> the correctable elements over UDP (since you don't care if you lose a % of
+</I>&gt;<i> them), and one which carries the critical ones over TCP (which provides
+</I>you
+&gt;<i> the service guarantee you need).
+</I>
+ This is one possible route... not a bad one either. There would not be
+any sort of performance loss in comparison to a pure-UDP implementation,
+since the operating system's TCP/IP implementation is probably more
+efficient than the custom UDP one.
+
+ I guess its a matter of preference, of the developers are willing to
+code something that manages two sets of sockets int the clients and servers,
+then go for it :-)
+
+&gt;<i> One of the minor advantages of the dual-protocol path is that it allows
+</I>you to
+&gt;<i> bypass firewalls that refuse to forward UDP: you fold back the UDP
+</I>protocol
+&gt;<i> path into TCP. You start losing performance, but at least, you do have a
+</I>&gt;<i> way of passing thru (don't forget to make your UDP packet protocols
+</I>&gt;<i> compatible with TCP streaming).
+</I>
+ This is true. Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP so,
+the genre of people who would play a MMOG would probably have dealt with the
+firewall issues before, and would expect to fix their config to accomodate a
+new game. Of course thats a slight generalization...
+
+Just adding some more food to the bowl ;-)
+-Sal
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Problems ?</H1>
+ <B>Dim Segebart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Problems ?">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:12:02 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<PRE>What's wrong with this list ?
+I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+(((
+And also no posts from other members.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+ <B>Vianney Lecroart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:56:10 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
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+<PRE>Hello,
+
+&gt;<i> I find it easier to put some simple checking into UDP than to manage
+</I>two
+&gt;<i> sets of sockets for each client, one TCP and one UDP. Also the important
+</I>&gt;<i> data that needs reliable transmission is usually rare.... like you said,
+</I>&gt;<i> when someone casts a spell... and maybe chat text. Most data in a
+</I>networked
+&gt;<i> game is usually skippable. I think this is why most games use simple
+</I>UDP,
+&gt;<i> because of simplicity of implementation, and because there is so little
+</I>data
+&gt;<i> that needs to be sent reliable, a less-than-efficient reliable stream is
+</I>&gt;<i> o.k. The strength in TCP/IP comes mostly when sending large amounts of
+</I>&gt;<i> data, since it makes compromises with packet acknowledgement over a period
+</I>&gt;<i> of time to gain its efficiency. But for short bursts of data typical for a
+</I>&gt;<i> MMOG it wouldn't perform significantly better.
+</I>
+
+Oh really? I have not the same opinion. I think that 90% of information on a
+game
+are important and must be received if you don't want to have inconsistency
+in the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+receive
+&quot;you lost 5 hp&quot; message before &quot;you are attacked by XXX&quot;, it should be
+totally
+weird. I think that messages, in a role game, must be sorted and reliable
+for
+consistency and logical events.
+
+&gt;<i> This is true. Then again, a most of today's networked games use UDP
+</I>so,
+
+be careful, there more than 1 category of network game. there are MMOG and
+counter strike like game (with few tens of players). for the second one udp
+is a
+surely useful but for MMOG, I'm not sure that the most of them are in UDP
+only.
+
+-vl
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Problems ?">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 17 Nov 2000 14:27:39 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A></li>
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+<PRE>According to Dim Segebart:
+&gt;<i> What's wrong with this list ?
+</I>&gt;<i> I didn't receive my last post, which have been posted three days ago ...
+</I>&gt;<i> (((
+</I>&gt;<i> And also no posts from other members.
+</I>
+That's a not a particularly weird one, because you're not listed as
+a member of the list. I've looked at the logs, and didn't find a record
+of your subscription confirmation.
+
+Please note that mailman doesn't let &quot;third party subscriptions&quot; for you;
+when you subscribe from the on-line form, mailman sends a message to the
+subscribed address asking for a confirmation, to avoid the syndrome of
+&quot;let's register Mr X to 10,000 lists to flood his mailbox&quot; (and the less
+bothersome 'let's put in a wrong and mispelled address'). Until you have
+properly replied to that confirmation message (keep the subject, and cut all
+the body), you will NOT receive messages from the list.
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+ <B>Thierry Mallard</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:23:03 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Fri, Nov 17, 2000 at 10:56:10AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+&gt;<i> [ Networking ]
+</I>&gt;<i> I think that 90% of information on a game are important and must be recei=
+</I>ved
+&gt;<i> if you don't want to have inconsistency in
+</I>&gt;<i> the client side. the order of information are also very important. if you
+</I>&gt;<i> receive
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;you lost 5 hp&quot; message before &quot;you are attacked by XXX&quot;,=20
+</I>
+Just two little remarks here :
+
+1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+ &quot;you now have 37 HP&quot; more than &quot;you lost 5 HP&quot; : one is skippable, the o=
+ther
+ is not.=20
+
+2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But =
+if
+that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+
+
+ Shaman,=20
+ [ still learning to write english ... ;-) ]
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard | =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A> | =20
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoWPGcACgkQGBtCB6PQIctC4wCdHeXHaiWu8TqEpUsryl+D/wH2
+Ha8An3O5buwRHRsPEP2lr5PL1Nc2lDEu
+=xo0+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000046.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000046.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</H1>
+ <B>Tom wright</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:thomas.wright1%40ntlworld.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?">thomas.wright1@ntlworld.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:14:11 -0000</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+ charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi all,
+
+I am quite interested in what your trying to do, having played about =
+with the ideas for one of these for more years than I care to think =
+about :-)
+
+I have some general questions I would like to ask who ever is in the =
+know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones :-)
+
+1) Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build the stuff ? I am =
+currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to =
+try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your =
+environment and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include =
+is missing.
+It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies =
+that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in =
+there :-) But it will save you answering the same question lots of time =
+for those that don't look at the src
+
+2) Care to release at least a rough schedule on the website, so that =
+people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are going to be =
+released ?
+
+3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading =
+and learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+playing with it a few months ago, it has alot going for it. Are you =
+going to embed it and interface it to the API's available so that people =
+can use it for developement within the system, or is it more an external =
+glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+5) In your event dispatch system, how do you intent to get around the =
+problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having seen this problem =
+in other systems that rely on events for inter-object comms, I am =
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.
+
+Congrats on embrassing the open source idea for your server, and I look =
+forward to messing around with the system and the source.
+
+Regards
+
+Tom
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+ charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot; =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Hi all,&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I am quite interested in what your =
+trying to do,=20
+having played about with the ideas for one of these for more years than =
+I care=20
+to think about :-)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;I have some general questions I would =
+like to ask=20
+who ever is in the know, feel free to ignore the 'sensitive' ones=20
+:<i>-)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+</I>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;1)&amp;nbsp; Are you going to add to the =
+FAQ how to=20
+build&amp;nbsp; the stuff ? I am currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( =
+though I have=20
+a linux box also to try this out on ) and it appears you have some paths =
+coded=20
+to your environment and not within the project file, e.g. =
+whatever\nel\include=20
+is missing.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;It would be useful in the FAQ if it =
+contained a=20
+list of any dependencies that the system also requires like the STL =
+code. Yeah I=20
+know its in there :-)&amp;nbsp; But it will save you answering the same =
+question=20
+lots of time for those that don't look at the src&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;2) Care to release at least a rough =
+schedule on the=20
+website, so that people can see when bits and pieces of the jigsaw are =
+going to=20
+be released ?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;3) Congrats on releasing the src early, =
+that means=20
+we can start reading and learning now before we have 1000's of files to =
+wade=20
+through.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;4) very interested to see talking about =
+using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot =
+going for=20
+it.&amp;nbsp; Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+available so=20
+that people can use it for developement within the system, or is it more =
+an=20
+external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping AI =
+and NPC=20
+routines&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;5) In your event dispatch system, how =
+do you intent=20
+to get around the problem of 'event blizzards' on a busy system ? Having =
+seen=20
+this problem in other systems that rely on events for inter-object =
+comms, I am=20
+interested on how you are going to get around the problem, e.g. =
+multi-threaded=20
+round robin dispatch, multiple dispatchers etc.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Congrats on embrassing the open source =
+idea for=20
+your server, and&amp;nbsp;I look forward to messing around with the system =
+and the=20
+source.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Regards&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;Tom&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C05232.FD4788A0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <H1>[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</H1>
+ <B>sameh chafik Pro</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:chafik%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?">chafik@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Mon, 20 Nov 2000 09:59:53 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+ charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&gt;<i> 4) very interested to see talking about using python, having started =
+</I>playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+&gt;<i> going for it. Are you going to embed it and interface it to the API's =
+</I>available so that people can use it for=20
+&gt;<i> developement within the system, or is it more an external glue =
+</I>language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping &gt; AI and NPC =
+routines
+
+Hello,=20
+I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with Pierre =
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all class that we write but because we design a multi agents =
+system, we decideded to write an script interpret for our agents =
+platform. That dicision become because in open-source platform we did'nt =
+find an embed language for prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for =
+doing that.
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+ charset=&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC &quot;-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN&quot;&gt;
+&lt;HTML&gt;&lt;HEAD&gt;
+&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D&quot;text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1&quot;&gt;
+&lt;META content=3D&quot;MSHTML 5.50.4134.600&quot; name=3DGENERATOR&gt;
+&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;
+&lt;/HEAD&gt;
+&lt;BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; 4) very interested to see talking =
+about using=20
+python, having started playing with it a few months ago, it has alot=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; going for it.&amp;nbsp; Are you going =
+to embed it=20
+and interface it to the API's available so that people can use it for=20
+&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&lt;FONT face=3DArial size=3D2&gt;&amp;gt; developement within the system, or =
+is it more=20
+an external glue language ? Could be very useful for rapid prototyping =
+&amp;gt;<i> AI=20
+</I>and NPC routines&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;Hello, &lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;I'am Sameh Chafik and i am the lead AI programmer, I work with =
+Pierre=20
+Portier and Gabriel Robert. At present we don't use Python, i begun to =
+embed all=20
+class that&amp;nbsp;we write but because we design a multi agents system, we =
+
+decideded to write an script interpret for our agents platform. That =
+dicision=20
+become because in open-source platform we did'nt find an =
+embed&amp;nbsp;language for=20
+prototyping agents and python is'nt adapt for doing that.&lt;/DIV&gt;
+&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BODY&gt;&lt;/HTML&gt;
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C052D8.A0E268E0--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <H1>[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</H1>
+ <B>Vianney Lecroart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:lecroart%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?">lecroart@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:12:40 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>&gt;<i>1) Are you going to add to the FAQ how to build the stuff ? I am
+</I>currently running on Win2k with VC6 ( though I have a linux box also to try
+this out &gt;on ) and it appears you have some paths coded to your environment
+and not within the project file, e.g. whatever\nel\include is missing.
+&gt;<i>It would be useful in the FAQ if it contained a list of any dependencies
+</I>that the system also requires like the STL code. Yeah I know its in there
+:<i>-) But it &gt;will save you answering the same question lots of time for
+</I>those that don't look at the src
+
+I'm working on the Visual C++ INSTALL file that explains everything you have
+to do to install and compile our project. It should be available in few
+days. (The unix one should come too in few days). But we don't plan to add
+it in the faq, we'll put it in the root directory.
+
+&gt;<i>3) Congrats on releasing the src early, that means we can start reading and
+</I>learning now before we have 1000's of files to wade through.
+
+Thanks
+
+-Vianney Lecroart
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
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+ <H1>[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:03:35 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Thierry Mallard:
+&gt;<i> Just two little remarks here :
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> 1/ the message should be more state-ish the action-ish here :
+</I>&gt;<i> &quot;you now have 37 HP&quot; more than &quot;you lost 5 HP&quot; : one is skippable, the other
+</I>&gt;<i> is not.
+</I>
+As a general rule, change of state messages are always what I termed
+uncorrectable elements, while state information is, by definition,
+correctable (because you can resend the same state information at any
+time, &quot;correcting&quot; the error).
+
+Now, some information can be expressed in terms of either state or change
+of state. The choice of the type of communication between server and client
+must be individually chosen for most.
+
+An important point to keep in mind is that, for most state information
+which we deliver thru UDP, you are perfectly allowed to lose some
+information (since you expect it will be corrected in the near future),
+but for any specific state, you must guarantee that at least some of the
+updates are delivered properly.
+
+A good example is the &quot;HP update&quot; above. You may send &quot;X now has 37 HP&quot;
+&quot;X now has 33 HP&quot;, &quot;X now has 30 HP&quot;, but at some point, you need to ensure
+that the client (since we assume that the server is the one giving the state
+update) gets at least one update. So, most of these updates would be sent
+using UDP, but one out of N has to be sent using TCP to ensure guaranteed
+delivery (or, more typically, one every N seconds).
+
+&gt;<i> 2/ the order is not necessary I think, but more the delay between them. The
+</I>&gt;<i> network speed may compensate the apparent disorder : if there's only 13 ms
+</I>&gt;<i> between the events you mentionned, the player may probably not notice. But if
+</I>&gt;<i> that's 1.5 seconds, that's another problem ... ;-)
+</I>
+If you use two streams, you also need to guarantee an order between both.
+It wouldn't do to receive &quot;X has 35 HP&quot; thru TCP and &quot;X has 38 HP&quot; thru UDP.
+So all state update messages also need to carry out a timestamp so that,
+when your client parses the &quot;X has 35 HP&quot; message because your network stack
+delivered this first, he'll be able to ignore the &quot;X has 38 HP&quot; one which is
+now obsolete.
+
+Oh, and I do agree. Using pure TCP frees you from the hassles of dealing
+with all that... but you relinquish a lot of control of the lag, since you
+cannot control how and when the information is retransmitted.
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..e9862820
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000050.html
@@ -0,0 +1,70 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:roybryant%40SEVENtwentyfour.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000053.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000051.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</H1>
+ <B>Roy Bryant</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:roybryant%40SEVENtwentyfour.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org">roybryant@SEVENtwentyfour.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:09:37 -0500</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#50">[ date ]</a>
+ <a href="thread.html#50">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#50">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#50">[ author ]</a>
+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+
+ On your page <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/</A>
+ when you click on your link to
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html</A>
+ you get the error: Not found
+
+As recommended by the Robot Guidelines, this email is to explain our robot's
+activities and to let you know about one of the broken links we encountered.
+LinkWalker does not store or publish the content of your pages, but rather
+uses the link information to update our map of the World Wide Web.
+
+Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+
+Roy Bryant
+
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+ Roy Bryant, <A HREF="mailto:roybryant@seventwentyfour.com">roybryant@seventwentyfour.com</A>
+ President
+ SEVENtwentyfour Inc. (&quot;Always watching the Web&quot;)
+ <A HREF="http://www.seventwentyfour.com">http://www.seventwentyfour.com</A>
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..3fd1c76d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000051.html
@@ -0,0 +1,77 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000050.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000054.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:18:40 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#51">[ date ]</a>
+ <a href="thread.html#51">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#51">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#51">[ author ]</a>
+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to Roy Bryant:
+&gt;<i> There appears to be a problem on this page of your site.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> On your page <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> when you click on your link to
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html">http://www.nevrax.org/pipermail/nel/2000-October/subject.html</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> you get the error: Not found
+</I>
+Well, there are no october archives, since these archives held only
+messages of the form &quot;ok, ping, 1-2-3, anyone hear me?&quot; and &quot;do I
+receive this?&quot;.
+
+I tried to remove all traces of the october activity, but Mailman seem
+to have resurrected the links, even if the files themselves are not there,
+nor any information to recreate them.
+
+Mailman is, well, &quot;lacking&quot; (to put it nicely) in the documentation and
+man area.
+
+&gt;<i> Are these reports helpful? I'd love some feedback. If you prefer not to
+</I>&gt;<i> receive these occasional error notices please let me know.
+</I>
+Most of these really are errors. That specific one is &quot;known&quot;, and I
+have yet to figure how to remove it - Mailman recreates the link when
+a new message is received.
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..806025f7
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000052.html
@@ -0,0 +1,89 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Some questions about network implementation</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000048.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000053.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</H1>
+ <B>Dim Segebart</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:zager%40teleaction.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Some questions about network implementation">zager@teleaction.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:12:32 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#52">[ date ]</a>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello !
+Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+(<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/</A>)
+It's based on Netscape Portable Runtime library (NSPR)
+and amed on creating high perfomance network applications.
+Look at documentation
+(<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html</A>)
+&gt;<i>From documentation:
+</I>
+It is contained in 8 source files as opposed to more than 400, but
+provides all the
+functionality that is needed to write efficient IAs on UNIX-like
+platforms.
+
+ NSPR State Threads
+ Lines of code ~150,000 ~3000
+
+ Dynamic library size
+(debug version)
+ IRIX ~700 KB ~60 KB
+ Linux ~900 KB ~70 KB
+
+State Threads is an application library which provides a foundation for
+writing Internet Applications. To summarize, it has the following
+advantages:
+
+ It allows the design of fast and highly scalable applications. An
+application will scale well with both load and number of CPUs.
+ It greatly simplifies application programming and debugging
+because, as a rule, no mutual exclusion locking is necessary and the
+entire application is free to use static variables and non-reentrant
+library functions.
+
+The library's main limitation:
+ All I/O operations on sockets must use the State Thread library's
+I/O functions because only those functions perform thread scheduling and
+prevent the application's
+ processes from blocking.
+
+
+I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+according to the above document ?
+
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7dad9869
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000053.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Some questions about network implementation</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:cado%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000052.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000050.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</H1>
+ <B>Olivier Cado</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:cado%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Some questions about network implementation">cado@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:54:34 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#53">[ date ]</a>
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+ <a href="author.html#53">[ author ]</a>
+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello everybody !
+
+Dim Segebart wrote:
+&gt;<i> Today I have found very interesting library from SGI
+</I>&gt;<i> (<A HREF="http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/">http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/</A>)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I'm just wonder, what is the implimenantion design of NeL server-side
+</I>&gt;<i> according to the above document ?
+</I>
+During the pre-production we studied various libraries, from the
+smallest to the biggest (such as ACE,
+<A HREF="http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html">http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html</A> ). We didn't find the one of
+our dreams :-)
+
+At the moment we have implemented a simple networking system to work
+with our prototype that is coming soon.
+
+Thank you for your suggestion. We will study this library in detail.
+
+Regards,
+Olivier
+--
+Olivier Cado ICQ: 67756413
+NEVRAX France <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.com">http://www.nevrax.com</A> - <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org">http://www.nevrax.org</A>
+
+</pre>
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a7f281ed
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000054.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000051.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000060.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+ <B>Valignat Cedric</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:19:35 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#54">[ date ]</a>
+ <a href="thread.html#54">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#54">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#54">[ author ]</a>
+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hello,
+
+The Nevrax team is please to announce, that there is some improvement on
+the GNU/Linux compilation :-)
+
+Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+
+There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+
+That's the first time that i'm playing around with automake / autoconf so
+you migth find (and you will) some ugly things. Be nice with us ... any
+suggestion will be welcome :-)
+
+
+Have fun and a nice week-end ...
+
+
+The Nevrax team.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
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+ </LI>
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..4274065b
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000055.html
@@ -0,0 +1,54 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] error in CVS?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000063.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000056.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] error in CVS?</H1>
+ <B>Stefan Nilsen</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] error in CVS?">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:18:06 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#55">[ date ]</a>
+ <a href="thread.html#55">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#55">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#55">[ author ]</a>
+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks
+lika a damaged CVS repository.
+
+cvs [server aborted]: unable to parse
+/home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/net/base_socket.cpp,v; `state' not in the expected
+place
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ea4c3e9d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000056.html
@@ -0,0 +1,57 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] error in CVS?</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000055.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000057.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] error in CVS?</H1>
+ <B>Cedric Valignat</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] error in CVS?">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Sat, 25 Nov 2000 02:16:05 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A></li>
+ <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
+ <a href="date.html#56">[ date ]</a>
+ <a href="thread.html#56">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#56">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#56">[ author ]</a>
+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Stefan Nilsen wrote:
+&gt;<i> I get this error when updating the files from the CVS repository. It looks
+</I>&gt;<i> lika a damaged CVS repository.
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+Ouch ... sorry.
+
+It's fixed.
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
+ <P><UL>
+ <!--threads-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000057.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</H1>
+ <B>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+ TITLE="[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+ <I>28 Nov 2000 11:04:18 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all nelers,
+
+Issue:
+
+ With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+ rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+ unset include path.
+
+Solution:
+
+ Use c++ as the default compiler for TRY_COMPILE macros.
+
+Path:
+
+--- configure.in.old Tue Nov 28 10:22:18 2000
++++ configure.in Tue Nov 28 10:50:10 2000
+@@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
+ dnl Checks for programs.
+
+ AC_PROG_MAKE_SET
++AC_LANG_CPLUSPLUS
+
+ AC_PROG_CC
+ AC_PROG_CXX
+
+
+Comment:
+
+ With this patch, configures works properly. And compilation worked
+ until my quota was full. ;)
+
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+--
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000058.html
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+<HTML>
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+ <H1>[Nel] CVS checkin by email</H1>
+ <B>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+ TITLE="[Nel] CVS checkin by email">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+ <I>28 Nov 2000 11:05:27 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all,
+
+Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+--
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000059.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] CVS checkin by email</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] CVS checkin by email">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 11:50:58 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to David Mentré:
+&gt;<i> Hi all,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Is there any way to bi informed by email of each new CVS checkin ?
+</I>
+Well, if you want to be spammed continuously, that might be possible.
+I'll put something in the crontab to notify you every day :)
+
+Realistically, since you get full access to the development CVS tree,
+there is something done about every day in one part or another of the
+library. We do not have anything like the cvsup of FreeBSD so that you
+automatically would fetch the latest version everytime, but you can
+set a cron job if you like to to a cvs update every day around 23:00
+GMT. That's when we do a full resynchronise of the various CVS mirrors
+(in practice, the sync starts at 22:00 GMT, but you never know how long
+rsync will take across the 3 machines involved).
+
+We will post announces when there is something relatively major commited
+(like the day you'll get your first pictures, or like we did when the
+ compilation stuff on Linux boxes started working). Usually, we also do
+a manual resync at that time.
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..668fe9b8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000060.html
@@ -0,0 +1,66 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+ <B>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+ TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+ <I>28 Nov 2000 12:35:20 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
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+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Valignat Cedric &lt;<A HREF="mailto:valignat@nevrax.com">valignat@nevrax.com</A>&gt; writes:
+
+&gt;<i> Just checkout the source files, read the INSTALL file and follow the
+</I>&gt;<i> instructions, it should be enougth ... i hope :o)
+</I>
+Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+machine.
+
+&gt;<i> There is still a lot of things to do or/and improve.
+</I>
+Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+megs of nel library. :)
+
+BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+
+d.
+--
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html
new file mode 100644
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+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000061.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 13:29:03 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to David Mentré:
+&gt;<i> BTW, maybe should the configure script be in the code/ directory in
+</I>&gt;<i> order to setup nel, the client and the server?
+</I>
+Well, yes and no. We'd like to keep the three (or at least two, NeL plus
+the client/server) separate or semi-separate entities, so that you can
+entirely replace client and server while keeping NeL.
+
+At some time, there will probably be an overall configure script, but that
+one will merely check the various parts, then call the 3 sub-directories
+configures with its what it just found.
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..ff25edec
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000062.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <H1>[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</H1>
+ <B>Valignat Cedric</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 15:40:05 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A></li>
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+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi David,
+
+David Mentré wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Issue:
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> With the current connfigure.in, the freetype availability test use cc
+</I>&gt;<i> rather than c++ to make the test, resulting in test failure due to
+</I>&gt;<i> unset include path.
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>
+
+We just made the changes in CVS.
+
+Thanks for your help ... :-)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f1ad36aa
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000063.html
@@ -0,0 +1,68 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</H1>
+ <B>Valignat Cedric</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:valignat%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation">valignat@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:02:58 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>David Mentré wrote:
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Yes. I can confirm it compiles on a fairly standard Debian 2.2 x86
+</I>&gt;<i> machine.
+</I>
+Cool ... :-)
+
+&gt;<i> Yes. Like a configure for the client and the server to start playing
+</I>&gt;<i> with some executable. Right now, I don't know what to do with the 63
+</I>&gt;<i> megs of nel library. :)
+</I>
+hehe :-)
+
+At the moment, there is nothing really usable for the client, and the
+GNU/linux OpenGL driver has to be written ...
+
+For the server part, we have few things running and the GNU/Linux configure
+setup will be done soon ...
+
+So be patient ... :-)
+
+
+Bye.
+
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7a4937d5
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000064.html
@@ -0,0 +1,74 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] pointers on documentation?</TITLE>
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] pointers on documentation?</H1>
+ <B>David Mentre</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+ TITLE="[Nel] pointers on documentation?">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+ <I>29 Nov 2000 12:55:21 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A></li>
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+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi all,
+
+I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as &quot;Traversers&quot;, or what
+is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+
+Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+
+For the nel guys, is there any &quot;Global Architecture Overview&quot; paper
+planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+read a paper describing a typical interaction: &quot;you setup object like
+this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+need at least this and that...&quot;. It needs not to be very precise, but
+fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+
+Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+priority list. ;)
+
+Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+we could write an architecture description paper.
+
+
+d.
+--
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+ <H1>[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</H1>
+ <B>Nicolas Hognon</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+ TITLE="[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:16:32 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
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+<PRE>&gt;<i> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+</I>&gt;<i> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>
+you can look at this book : 3D Game Engine Design
+by David H. Eberly
+or at this website : <A HREF="http://www.flipcode.com/">http://www.flipcode.com/</A>
+
+&gt;<i> For the nel guys, is there any &quot;Global Architecture Overview&quot; paper
+</I>&gt;<i> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+</I>&gt;<i> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+</I>&gt;<i> read a paper describing a typical interaction: &quot;you setup object like
+</I>&gt;<i> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+</I>&gt;<i> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+</I>&gt;<i> need at least this and that...&quot;. It needs not to be very precise, but
+</I>&gt;<i> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+</I>&gt;<i> priority list. ;)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+</I>&gt;<i> we could write an architecture description paper.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> d.
+</I>
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
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+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+ <B>david.belius@chello.se</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:david.belius%40chello.se"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">david.belius@chello.se</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:38:54 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A></li>
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+<PRE>Hi,
+i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+What algo will you be using?
+Will each server handle a specific cube in object space?
+
+I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is
+possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+
+Regards,
+David
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000067.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] pointers on documentation?</H1>
+ <B>Cyril Corvazier</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:corvazier%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] pointers on documentation?">corvazier@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:02:21 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
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+<PRE>Hi David,
+
+We have started a kind of &quot;NeL Programmer Guide&quot;. You can acces it from
+<A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html">http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html</A> We have some topics there,
+but nothing about MOT (Model Observer Traversal) yet. The guide grow up with
+the
+code so stay tuned!
+
+For information, MOT is inspired by Java 3d architecture.
+
+Bye.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: &quot;David Mentre&quot; &lt;<A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A>&gt;
+To: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A>&gt;
+Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:55 PM
+Subject: [Nel] pointers on documentation?
+
+
+&gt;<i> Hi all,
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
+</I>&gt;<i> areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as &quot;Traversers&quot;, or what
+</I>&gt;<i> is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
+</I>&gt;<i> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> For the nel guys, is there any &quot;Global Architecture Overview&quot; paper
+</I>&gt;<i> planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
+</I>&gt;<i> how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
+</I>&gt;<i> read a paper describing a typical interaction: &quot;you setup object like
+</I>&gt;<i> this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
+</I>&gt;<i> step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
+</I>&gt;<i> need at least this and that...&quot;. It needs not to be very precise, but
+</I>&gt;<i> fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
+</I>&gt;<i> priority list. ;)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
+</I>&gt;<i> we could write an architecture description paper.
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> d.
+</I>&gt;<i> --
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+</I>&gt;<i> _______________________________________________
+</I>&gt;<i> Nel mailing list
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="mailto:Nel@nevrax.org">Nel@nevrax.org</A>
+</I>&gt;<i> <A HREF="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel</A>
+</I>
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
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+<p align="right">[<a href="http://www.smartnet.com.tw" target="_new">SmartNet´¼´Iºô</a>´£¨Ñ]</p>
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+ //fake
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+<tr align="center"><td>
+<a href="/" style="text-decoration:underline">¦^­º­¶</a>
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+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">
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+<td align="left" nowrap="true">
+<A href="news20010302111.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¥Ò°©¤åÀò§Q¤£¦p¹w´Á
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+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">
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+<A href="news20010302113.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">µ×­^±á°T¡G§QªÅ®ø®§
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+<td align="left" nowrap="true">
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+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">
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+<td align="left" nowrap="true">
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+<td align="left" nowrap="true">
+<A href="news20010302116.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">¼Ú¬w¥D­nªÑ¥«¦¬½L¦æ
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+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">
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+<td align="left" nowrap="true">
+<A href="news20010302117.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">²ü»È«ØijBªÑ§ë¸ê¤H
+..</span>
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+</td></tr>
+<tr><td colspan="2" height="5">
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+<td align="left" nowrap="true">
+<A href="news20010302118.htm"><span style="font-size:9pt">µØÄ_:DRAM®w¦s
+..</span>
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+</td>
+<td xbgcolor="blue" width="1"></td>
+<td width="60"></td>
+</tr>
+<!--<tr><td align="center" colspan="3" bgcolor="black" width="126" height="15"><font color="white"></font></td></tr>
+-->
+</table>
+</td></tr></table>
+</td>
+</tr>
+</table>
+</td>
+</tr>
+</table>
+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/ad_server/adbase.asp?c=1&amp;b=1&amp;f=0&amp;i=7&amp;d=0&amp;h=10">
+
+ //fake
+ </script>
+<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
+ chage_tdbg(left_tdbg,RndImg0());
+ </SCRIPT>
+<script Language="JavaScript" src="http://sqbase.cts.com.tw/ad_server/adbase.asp?c=1&amp;b=1&amp;f=0&amp;i=8&amp;d=0&amp;h=10">
+
+ //fake
+ </script>
+<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
+ chage_tdbg(right_tdbg,RndImg0());
+ </SCRIPT>
+<table width="780" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
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+<td height="28" bgcolor="#f0e68c" width="137" align="center">
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+<td width="50"></td>
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+<a href="/ctsmuseum" target="_top" class="b">¡@µØµø¥x¥vÀ]</a>¡E<br />
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+<a href="/training/frame.htm" target="_top" class="b">µØµø°V½m¤¤¤ß</a>¡E
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+<td height="28" bgcolor="#f0e68c" width="1"></td>
+<td height="28" bgcolor="#0066ff" width="468" align="center">
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+<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">
+<font color="#ffffff">¤¤µØ¹qµøªÑ¥÷¦³­­¤½¥q www.cts.com.tw ª©Åv©Ò¦³</font><br />
+<font face="Arial" size="1" color="#ffffff"><img src="/himages/copyright.gif" /> 2000 CTS Inc. All Rights Reserved. Established 1997-01-03</font><br />
+<font face="Arial" size="1" color="#ffffff"> 106 ¥x¥_¥«¥ú´_«n¸ô100¸¹ Tel: (02)2751-0321 </font><a href="mailto:service@cts.com.tw" class="c"><img src="/himages/mail.gif" align="absmiddle" hspace="3" border="0" />µØµøªA°È«H½c</a>
+</span></td>
+<td height="28" bgcolor="#f0e68c" width="1"></td>
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+ ¡E<a href="/prgtopic/prgtopic.htm" target="_top" class="b">¸`¥Ø¯d¨¥ªO</a><br />
+ ¡E<a href="/bossmail" target="_top" class="b">µØµøÁ`¸g²z«H½c</a><br />
+ ¡E<a href="/news/email/email.htm" target="_top" class="b">·s»D¥D¼½«H½c</a>
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+<!--
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+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..f253987d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000069.html
@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Status question</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000066.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000074.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Status question</H1>
+ <B>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:x5101920%40fedro.ugr.es"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Status question">x5101920@fedro.ugr.es</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:18:42 +0100 (MET)</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Hi,
+
+I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior
+experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the
+overall project?
+
+Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+
+I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+
+
+Regards,
+Miguel
+
+BTW Have you ever though about reusing other GPL projects source?
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+ <P><UL>
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+ </UL>
+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000070.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000070.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..eefd05c0
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000070.html
@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Distributed server algo</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000074.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000071.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+ <B>Stefan Nilsen</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:stefan.nilsen%40telia.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">stefan.nilsen@telia.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:02:52 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>On Wednesday 29 November 2000 15:38, <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
+</I>&gt;<i> Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is
+</I>&gt;<i> possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?
+</I>
+WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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+</body></html>
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000071.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000071.html
new file mode 100644
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--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000071.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <TITLE> [Nel] Distributed server algo</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
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+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000070.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000072.html">
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+ <B>Nicolas Hognon</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:cblt%40cblt.org"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">cblt@cblt.org</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:10:24 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>massively multiplayer online real time strategy
+(game like stracraft but massively online)
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)
+</I>
+
+
+--
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : <A HREF="mailto:cblt@cblt.org">cblt@cblt.org</A> / www.cblt.org
+work : <A HREF="mailto:nicolash@virtools.com">nicolash@virtools.com</A> / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
+ <HR>
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000072.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000072.html
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+ <H1>[Nel] Distributed server algo</H1>
+ <B>Thierry Mallard</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:thierry%40mallard.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Distributed server algo">thierry@mallard.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:50:38 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
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+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
+Content-Disposition: inline
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+On Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 03:38:54PM +0100, <A HREF="mailto:david.belius@chello.se">david.belius@chello.se</A> wrote:
+&gt;<i> Hi,
+</I>&gt;<i> i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
+</I>&gt;<i> What algo will you be using?
+</I>
+Dunno if it could be related, but the word =AB distributed =BB made me flas=
+h ;-)
+I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]), with
+the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal language which d=
+oes
+has nice features about distribution. Maybe that could be worth a look,
+although I'm still not sure an interpreted language is really usable for
+something like NeL or STAGE...=20
+
+ Best regards,
+
+ Shaman
+
+[1] <A HREF="http://www.worldforge.org">http://www.worldforge.org</A>
+[2] <A HREF="http://www.erlang.org">http://www.erlang.org</A> =20
+ <A HREF="http://www.erlang-fr.org">http://www.erlang-fr.org</A> (under construction)
+
+--=20
+Thierry Mallard | =20
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB |
+<A HREF="http://thierry.mallard.com">http://thierry.mallard.com</A> | =20
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z
+Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux)
+Comment: Pour information voir <A HREF="http://www.gnupg.org">http://www.gnupg.org</A>
+
+iEYEARECAAYFAjoliD4ACgkQGBtCB6PQIcsTzQCgz1RuIUyK+vJsab7904ivRkqz
+TsUAnRtzTz+qdhL90GIDITtRT8cAMZ8m
+=AUVC
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+--Nq2Wo0NMKNjxTN9z--
+
+
+</pre>
+
+
+
+<!--endarticle-->
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000073.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000073.html
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+ <TITLE> [offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr">
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+ <H1>[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</H1>
+ <B>David Mentre</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre%40irisa.fr"
+ TITLE="[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A><BR>
+ <I>30 Nov 2000 08:59:54 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A></li>
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+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>Thierry Mallard &lt;<A HREF="mailto:thierry@mallard.com">thierry@mallard.com</A>&gt; writes:
+
+&gt;<i> I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]),
+</I>&gt;<i> with the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal
+</I>&gt;<i> language which does has nice features about distribution.
+</I>
+You could also have a look at Objective Caml[1]. It is a functionnal
+language (ML style with type inference for those interested) but with
+modules and object oriented capabilities. It has not pre-build
+distributed facilities but toolkits have been built on it, like
+Ensemble[2].
+
+On Erlang, one thing to notice is that reliability is in charge of the
+programmer. But maybe your are involved in some other projects using
+Erlang. ;)
+
+&gt;<i> Maybe that could be worth a look, although I'm still not sure an
+</I>&gt;<i> interpreted language is really usable for something like NeL or
+</I>&gt;<i> STAGE...
+</I>
+OCaml can be compiled in both bytecode and native code for about any
+platform (from ARM to Alpha through x86 [2b]). And people have made
+hacks to dynamically load bytecode and native code into
+programs[3]. Also notice that bytecode is portable across platforms.
+
+Sorry if it is a bit of topic, but I could not resist for this blatant
+advertising. ;) And maybe NeL will have more that just Python support...
+
+Best regards,
+d.
+
+[1] <A HREF="http://caml.inria.fr/">http://caml.inria.fr/</A>
+[2] <A HREF="http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/Projects/Ensemble/index.html">http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/Projects/Ensemble/index.html</A>
+[2b] <A HREF="http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/portability.html">http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/portability.html</A>
+[3] <A HREF="http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200011/msg00180.html">http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200011/msg00180.html</A>
+--
+ <A HREF="mailto:David.Mentre@irisa.fr">David.Mentre@irisa.fr</A> -- <A HREF="http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/">http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/</A>
+ Opinions expressed here are only mine.
+
+</pre>
+
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000074.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/000074.html
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+ <TITLE> [Nel] Status question</TITLE>
+ <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
+ <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com">
+ <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000069.html">
+ <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000070.html">
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+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <H1>[Nel] Status question</H1>
+ <B>Vincent Archer</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:archer%40nevrax.com"
+ TITLE="[Nel] Status question">archer@nevrax.com</A><BR>
+ <I>Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:19:13 +0100</I>
+ <P><UL>
+ <LI> Previous message: <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A></li>
+ <LI> Next message: <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A></li>
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+ </LI>
+ </UL>
+ <HR>
+<!--beginarticle-->
+<PRE>According to MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN:
+&gt;<i> I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior
+</I>&gt;<i> experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the
+</I>&gt;<i> overall project?
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Planning? Alpha? Beta?
+</I>
+None of the above? :)
+
+The game itself is somewhere between planning and alpha. We are approaching
+the date of our first internal prototype, but we know what the game itself
+is about, how it will play (in terms of game), and how we are structuring
+the NeL platform and how it is used to develop the real game.
+
+&gt;<i> I have browse the CVS and is something running?
+</I>
+Depend on what you call running. You do not have a 3D scene and interface
+available yet, for example, but you have several services for the building
+of the server part.
+
+--
+Vincent Archer Email: <A HREF="mailto:archer@nevrax.com">archer@nevrax.com</A>
+
+Nevrax France. Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+</pre>
+
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diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/author.html
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+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Author</title>
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <a name="start"></A>
+ <h1>2000-November Archives by Author</h1>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+ <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="57"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="58"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="60"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="4"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="39"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="40"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="44"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="49"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="51"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="59"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="61"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="74"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="5"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="50"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="53"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="28"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="54"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="62"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="63"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="67"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="37"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="3"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="65"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="71"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="69"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="31"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="23"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="26"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="43"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="48"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="38"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="45"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="72"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="64"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="68"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="73"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="55"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="70"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="32"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="47"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="22"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="25"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="41"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="24"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="27"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="35"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="36"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="42"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="52"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="56"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="2"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="29"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="30"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="33"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="34"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="66"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="46"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+ <p>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+ <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <hr>
+ <i>This archive was generated by
+ Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+ </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
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+ <HEAD>
+ <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Date</title>
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <a name="start"></A>
+ <h1>2000-November Archives by Date</h1>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+ <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+
+
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="2"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="3"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="4"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="5"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="22"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="23"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="24"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="25"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="26"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="27"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="28"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="29"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="30"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="31"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="32"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="33"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="34"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="35"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="36"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="37"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="38"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="39"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="40"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="41"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="42"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="43"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="44"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="45"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="46"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="47"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="48"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="49"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="51"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="50"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="52"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="53"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="54"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="55"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="56"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="57"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="58"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="59"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="60"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="61"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="62"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="63"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="64"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="65"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="66"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="67"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="68"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="69"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="70"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="71"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="72"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="73"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="74"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+ <p>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+ <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <hr>
+ <i>This archive was generated by
+ Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+ </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/index.html
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@@ -0,0 +1,251 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Thread</title>
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <a name="start"></A>
+ <h1>2000-November Archives by Thread</h1>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<!--0 00973707545- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="912"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973707545-00973761399- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="914"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973708927- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="913"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--0 00973777600- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="915"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<!--0 00973792221- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="916"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973792221-00973841567- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="918"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="921"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="923"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428-00973852988- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="925"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973795438- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="917"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973795438-00973847372- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="920"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973795438-00973847372-00973976137- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="929"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973842097- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="919"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00973848571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="922"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973848571-00973849176- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="924"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973893828- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="926"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973948689- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="927"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973973901- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="928"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974033910- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="931"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974033910-00974039696- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="932"></A><I>Sal</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974111869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="933"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="935"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="936"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="937"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974223796- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="945"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="946"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974227921- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="947"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="948"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426-00974302047- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="949"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="952"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722-00974464059- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="954"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974214308- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="940"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974030662- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="930"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--0 00974138730- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="934"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974138730-00974213485- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="938"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974213998- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="939"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974213998-00974214649- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="941"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974216002- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="942"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219209- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="943"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219354- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="944"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974383936- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="950"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974383936-00974392329- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="951"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="953"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="955"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183-00974732615- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="959"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974639651- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="956"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="957"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707960- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="958"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974905952- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="962"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974639651-00974905952-00974969674- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="963"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974808577- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="960"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974808577-00974805520- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="961"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975089975- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="964"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975089975-00975407720- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="970"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975410943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="971"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975420178- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="973"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975097086- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="965"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975097086-00975111365- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="966"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402258- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="967"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402258-00975418805- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="972"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402327- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="968"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402327-00975405058- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="969"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975495321- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="974"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975496592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="975"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="976"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="979"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922-00975572353- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="984"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="980"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172-00975528624- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="981"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="982"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638-00975567594- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="983"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975506541- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="977"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975506541-00975507213- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="978"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+ <p>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <hr>
+ <i>This archive was generated by
+ Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+ </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7d9ce067
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/subject.html
@@ -0,0 +1,118 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Subject</title>
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <a name="start"></A>
+ <h1>2000-November Archives by Subject</h1>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+ <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="57"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="62"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="51"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="50"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="58"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="59"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="66"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="70"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="71"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="72"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="55"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="56"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="29"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="31"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="32"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="33"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="34"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="54"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="60"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="61"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="63"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="18"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="21"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="22"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="23"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="25"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="7"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="10"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="19"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="24"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="28"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="9"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="6"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="8"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="11"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="13"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="15"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="26"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="27"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="30"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="35"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="40"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="41"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="43"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="45"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="49"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="64"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="67"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="68"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="3"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="5"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="42"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="44"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="46"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="47"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="48"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="20"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="52"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="53"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="36"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="37"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="38"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="39"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="69"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="74"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="2"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="4"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="12"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="14"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="16"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="17"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="65"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="73"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+ <p>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+ <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a>
+
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <hr>
+ <i>This archive was generated by
+ Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
+ </BODY>
+</HTML>
+
diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..02ee5bff
--- /dev/null
+++ b/pipermail/nel/2000-November/thread.html
@@ -0,0 +1,251 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
+<HTML>
+ <HEAD>
+ <title>The Nel 2000-November Archive by Thread</title>
+ </HEAD>
+ <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
+ <a name="start"></A>
+ <h1>2000-November Archives by Thread</h1>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Wed Nov 8 19:19:05 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Ending:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Messages:</b> 73<p>
+ <ul>
+
+<!--0 00973707545- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000002.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="912"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973707545-00973761399- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000004.html">[Nel] What kind of game are you making?</A> <A NAME="914"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973708927- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000003.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="913"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--0 00973777600- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000005.html">[Nel] problem about the bug report interface</A> <A NAME="915"></A><I>Yan Babilliot</I>
+<!--0 00973792221- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000006.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="916"></A><I>Cary Farrier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973792221-00973841567- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000008.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="918"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000011.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="921"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000013.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="923"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973792221-00973841567-00973848143-00973849428-00973852988- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000015.html">[Nel] matrix.cpp std::min/max problems?</A> <A NAME="925"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973795438- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000007.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="917"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973795438-00973847372- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000010.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="920"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973795438-00973847372-00973976137- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000019.html">[Nel] How do i compile this beast? Empty FAQ...</A> <A NAME="929"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973842097- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000009.html">[Nel] List settings changes</A> <A NAME="919"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--0 00973848571- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000012.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="922"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973848571-00973849176- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000014.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="924"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973893828- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000016.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="926"></A><I>Bryce Harrington</I>
+<!--2 00973848571-00973849176-00973948689- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000017.html">[Nel] WorldForge</A> <A NAME="927"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00973973901- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000018.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="928"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974033910- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000021.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="931"></A><I>Olivier Lejade</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974033910-00974039696- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000022.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="932"></A><I>Sal</I>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00973973901-00974111869- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000023.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="933"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000025.html">[Nel] Greetings! And some questions / comments</A> <A NAME="935"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000026.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="936"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000027.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="937"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974223796- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000035.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="945"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000036.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="946"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974227921- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000037.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="947"></A><I>Dan Ellis</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000038.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="948"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974226849-00974276426-00974302047- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000039.html">[Nel] Some thoughts about NeL</A> <A NAME="949"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000042.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="952"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974194591-00974448722-00974464059- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000044.html">[Nel] Problems ?</A> <A NAME="954"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00973973901-00974111869-00974148001-00974189499-00974214308- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000030.html">[Nel] my last email :)</A> <A NAME="940"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974030662- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000020.html">[Nel] Some Linux patches</A> <A NAME="930"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--0 00974138730- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000024.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="934"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974138730-00974213485- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000028.html">[Nel] Linux build</A> <A NAME="938"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974213998- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000029.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="939"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974213998-00974214649- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000031.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="941"></A><I>Ludovic LIEVRE</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974216002- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000032.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="942"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219209- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000033.html">[Nel] Flexibility</A> <A NAME="943"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<!--2 00974213998-00974214649-00974219354- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000034.html">[Nel] Flexibility (oops)</A> <A NAME="944"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974383936- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000040.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="950"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974383936-00974392329- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000041.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="951"></A><I>Sal</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000043.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="953"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000045.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="955"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00974383936-00974392329-00974451370-00974532183-00974732615- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000049.html">[Nel] Ok, some food for your toughts</A> <A NAME="959"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974639651- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000046.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="956"></A><I>Tom wright</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707193- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000047.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="957"></A><I>sameh chafik Pro</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974707960- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000048.html">[Nel] Release Schedule and some questions ?</A> <A NAME="958"></A><I>Vianney Lecroart</I>
+<!--1 00974639651-00974905952- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000052.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="962"></A><I>Dim Segebart</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00974639651-00974905952-00974969674- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000053.html">[Nel] Some questions about network implementation</A> <A NAME="963"></A><I>Olivier Cado</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00974808577- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000050.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="960"></A><I>Roy Bryant</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00974808577-00974805520- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000051.html">[Nel] Broken link in www.nevrax.org</A> <A NAME="961"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975089975- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000054.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="964"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975089975-00975407720- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000060.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="970"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975410943- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000061.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="971"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--2 00975089975-00975407720-00975420178- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000063.html">[Nel] GNU/Linux compilation</A> <A NAME="973"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975097086- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000055.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="965"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975097086-00975111365- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000056.html">[Nel] error in CVS?</A> <A NAME="966"></A><I>Cedric Valignat</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402258- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000057.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="967"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402258-00975418805- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000062.html">[Nel] [patch] configure issue on GNU/Linux</A> <A NAME="972"></A><I>Valignat Cedric</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975402327- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000058.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="968"></A><I>David =?iso-8859-1?q?Mentr=E9?=</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975402327-00975405058- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000059.html">[Nel] CVS checkin by email</A> <A NAME="969"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+</UL>
+<!--0 00975495321- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000064.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="974"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+<UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975496592- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000065.html">[NOISE] Re: [Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="975"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000066.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="976"></A><I>david.belius@chello.se</I>
+<UL>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000069.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="979"></A><I>MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975521922-00975572353- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000074.html">[Nel] Status question</A> <A NAME="984"></A><I>Vincent Archer</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000070.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="980"></A><I>Stefan Nilsen</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975528172-00975528624- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000071.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="981"></A><I>Nicolas Hognon</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000072.html">[Nel] Distributed server algo</A> <A NAME="982"></A><I>Thierry Mallard</I>
+<!--3 00975495321-00975496592-00975505134-00975534638-00975567594- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000073.html">[offtopic] distributed scripting language (was: Re: [Nel] Distributed server algo)</A> <A NAME="983"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+<!--1 00975495321-00975506541- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000067.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="977"></A><I>Cyril Corvazier</I>
+<UL>
+<!--2 00975495321-00975506541-00975507213- -->
+<LI> <A HREF="000068.html">[Nel] pointers on documentation?</A> <A NAME="978"></A><I>David Mentre</I>
+</UL>
+</UL>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a>
+ <i>Thu Nov 30 09:19:13 2000</i><br>
+ <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Thu Nov 30 10:16:00 2000</i>
+ <p>
+ <ul>
+ <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b>
+
+ <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a>
+ <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a>
+ <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a>
+ <li><b><a href="http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel">More info on this list...
+ </a></b></li>
+ </ul>
+ <p>
+ <hr>
+ <i>This archive was generated by
+ Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition).</i>
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+