Subject: [Nel] pointers on documentation?

From: David Mentre <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Nov 2000 12:55:21 +0100

Hi all,

I've looked very briefly at source code. As I'm newbie to 3D and games
areas, I've been unable to understand concepts as "Traversers", or what
is exactly a Model, a Scene, etc.

Has somebody a good pointer on some basic documentation (URL, book,
paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?

For the nel guys, is there any "Global Architecture Overview" paper
planned? I know about the white paper, but I would be more interested in
how you see the architecture in place. For example, it would be nice to
read a paper describing a typical interaction: "you setup object like
this, with this server and this client; when game starts, at each time
step, the client send this info to the server; to model a scene, you
need at least this and that...". It needs not to be very precise, but
fill the gap between the white papers and the source code.

Of course, I would understand that such a paper would not be on top
priority list. ;)

Maybe when some usable server/client will be released on Linux platform,
we could write an architecture description paper.

d.
-- 
 [email-masked] -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
 Opinions expressed here are only mine.

---

From: Nicolas Hognon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 13:16:32 +0100

> paper) that details those concepts found in 3D and distributed games?

you can look at this book : 3D Game Engine Design
by David H. Eberly
or at this website : http://www.flipcode.com/

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 15:38:54 +0100

Hi,
i was wondering how you will code the distributed server.
What algo will you be using?
Will each server handle a specific cube in object space?

I would also like to know how general the engine will be.
Will it be a _MMORPG_ engine or just a MMOG engine, so that it is 
possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?

Regards,
David

---

From: "Cyril Corvazier" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:02:21 +0100

Hi David,

We have started a kind of "NeL Programmer Guide". You can acces it from
/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html We have some topics there,
but nothing about MOT (Model Observer Traversal) yet. The guide grow up with
the
code so stay tuned!

For information, MOT is inspired by Java 3d architecture.

Bye.

Cyril Corvazier

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Mentre" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 12:55 PM
Subject: [Nel] pointers on documentation?

> _______________________________________________
> Nel mailing list
> [email-masked]
> /mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel

---

From: David Mentre <[email-masked]>
Date: 29 Nov 2000 16:13:33 +0100

"Cyril Corvazier" <[email-masked]> writes:

> /docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html 

I've already noticed it. :)

> We have some topics there, but nothing about MOT (Model Observer
> Traversal) yet. The guide grow up with the code so stay tuned!

ok. thanks.

d.

---

From: MIGUEL ANGEL BLANCH LARDIN <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 20:18:42 +0100 (MET)

Hi,

I am reading some of the emails publishing, and because of my prior 
experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 
overall project?

Planning? Alpha? Beta?

I have browse the CVS and is something running?

Regards,
Miguel

BTW Have you ever though about reusing other GPL projects source?

---

From: Stefan Nilsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:02:52 +0100

> possible to make a MMORTS or something with the same engine?

WDMMORTSM? (What does MMORTS mean?)

---

From: Nicolas Hognon <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:10:24 +0100

massively multiplayer online real time strategy
(game like stracraft but massively online)

-- 
Nicolas Hognon
home : [email-masked]         / www.cblt.org
work : [email-masked] / www.virtools.com
#ICQ : 36044443

Enjoy the silence
(DM)

---

From: Thierry Mallard <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:50:38 +0100

> What algo will you be using?

Dunno if it could be related, but the word « distributed » made me flash ;-)
I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]), with
the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal language which does
has nice features about distribution. Maybe that could be worth a look,
although I'm still not sure an interpreted language is really usable for
something like NeL or STAGE... 

	Best regards,

		Shaman

[1] http://www.worldforge.org
[2] http://www.erlang.org  
    http://www.erlang-fr.org (under construction)

-- 
Thierry Mallard              |              
GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
key 0xA3D021CB               |
http://thierry.mallard.com   |

---

From: David Mentre <[email-masked]>
Date: 30 Nov 2000 08:59:54 +0100

Thierry Mallard <[email-masked]> writes:

> I'm now trying to implement a STAGE server (see projet Worldforge[1]),
> with the help of Mickael Remond, using Erlang[2], a functionnal
> language which does has nice features about distribution.

You could also have a look at Objective Caml[1]. It is a functionnal
language (ML style with type inference for those interested) but with
modules and object oriented capabilities. It has not pre-build
distributed facilities but toolkits have been built on it, like
Ensemble[2].

On Erlang, one thing to notice is that reliability is in charge of the
programmer. But maybe your are involved in some other projects using
Erlang. ;)

>  Maybe that could be worth a look, although I'm still not sure an
> interpreted language is really usable for something like NeL or
> STAGE...

OCaml can be compiled in both bytecode and native code for about any
platform (from ARM to Alpha through x86 [2b]). And people have made
hacks to dynamically load bytecode and native code into
programs[3]. Also notice that bytecode is portable across platforms.

Sorry if it is a bit of topic, but I could not resist for this blatant
advertising. ;) And maybe NeL will have more that just Python support...

Best regards,
d.

[1] http://caml.inria.fr/
[2] http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/Projects/Ensemble/index.html
[2b] http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/portability.html
[3] http://caml.inria.fr/archives/200011/msg00180.html
-- 
 [email-masked] -- http://www.irisa.fr/prive/dmentre/
 Opinions expressed here are only mine.

---

From: Vincent Archer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 10:19:13 +0100

> experience in MMORPG, I would like to know in what stage is the 

None of the above? :)

The game itself is somewhere between planning and alpha. We are approaching
the date of our first internal prototype, but we know what the game itself
is about, how it will play (in terms of game), and how we are structuring
the NeL platform and how it is used to develop the real game.

> I have browse the CVS and is something running?

Depend on what you call running. You do not have a 3D scene and interface
available yet, for example, but you have several services for the building
of the server part.

-- 
Vincent Archer                                         Email: [email-masked]

Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!