Subject: [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS

From: "Zane" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:57:56 -0800

First off I'd like to say hello, I'm new to the list, one of the slashdot
crowd that have descended upon you. :)  I'm a C/C++/VB^H^H^H/SQL developer
and I've done mud development as a hobby for years
(www.sourceforge.net/projects/embermud) so this project was immediately
interesting to me.  I'm entirely a client/server developer with just a
rudimentary understanding of 3D so I'll probably be contributing entirely in
the server or client/server communcation areas.  Few questions for you all
at Nevrax.

Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
the website obsolete.

Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
:).

I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)

What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
documentation available but as far I as I can tell there aren't many (or
any) design documents available.  This would be especially nice for parts of
the library that have yet to be developed.  Starting work on undeveloped
portions of the library (the DB portion for instance) might be of interest
to other developers.

Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
your work to the community?

Forgive me if I'm asking questions with answers that are readily available
on your web-site but I've done my best to research beforehand.

Thanks,
E.J. Wilburn
[email-masked]

---

From: Vincent Archer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:48:57 +0100

Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.

> NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on

Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.

> will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree

We could use Slashdot, yes. In fact, there's a NeL project registered
on it "in case". Why aren't we using Sourceforge? Well, apart from the
current rumors of source forge growing beyond its possibilities of support,
we'd lose some of the control we have on the current public system. It's
a relatively gray area, and one on which we aren't saying much, except,
"well, right now we aren't".

> curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)

License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
(we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
the license from 3DS.

> What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated

No comment :)

We know we should :)

> your work to the community?

Both. Altough we haven't specifically announced things, we have a specific
program and are opening CVS commit privileges to specific people, so we
are looking for contributions, at all levels (from simple bug fixes to
whole features).

We don't guarantee we'll use everything, but if it "fits" within the
NeL scope, we'll put it in, even if we don't use it ourselves (yet).

-- 
Vincent Archer                                         Email: [email-masked]

Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!

---

From: Vincent Archer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:41 +0100

> Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.

More detail today, as promised :)

> Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.

We're still using the published data here, so it should not have been
a problem. Are you sure you are using the latest data file? There are
two on the web now, an old (NeL 0.2/Snowballs 0.1) and a new (NeL 0.3
& Snowballs 0.2) packed format (which is a lot smaller).

If you're using the one that came with the very first release, update. If
not, then there's something very odd going on. Open a bug then, and we'll
have a deep look at it.

However, the point you raise is good, because one day we might encounter
that specific problem. I'm checking exactly how we're going to put it,
whether in the code/client tree, a specific code/data tree, or a
fully separate module (since it isn't code per se).

> license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting

I want to stress "we haven't... yet". We're trying to find a good solution
to that problem (which basically boils down to using proprietary software
right now, which limits our freedom of action, as usual).

> > What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated

We're working on redoing the way we document things. Doxygen is good,
but if no one writes documentation for it, it's as instructive as trying
to learn tu use Unix from just the manual pages.

But that's the usual problem with programming: programmers are interested
in writing code, not writing prose. We strive to keep them from sliding
too much in code-only mode :)