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pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-February/author.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html (limited to 'pipermail/nel/2001-February') diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..06fa4e6f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000161.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] New release + + + + + + +

[Nel] New release

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:02:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
We've advanced NeL to the 0.3 version, and the sample Snowballs game to the
+0.2 version, so we've put a new release on the web site.
+
+Major highlights of NeL:
+- the AI framework compiles correctly under Linux
+- support for shadows, lens flare, and other lighting effects
+- compressed textures
+
+Major highlights of Snowballs (besides the NeL parts)
+- new radar system
+- zoom
+- correct execution under Linux (if your Xserver supports 3D acceleration,
+  otherwise, don't even think about it)
+
+As usual, you may update your CVS repositories and compile, or install the
+packaged source tree and compile from there. Do not forget to install the
+updated data files.
+
+As an aside, we're putting the dreaded 'ns.cfg' file in the data distribution
+but the library defaults are now set to the right server. Even without it,
+you'll no longer get the "cannot resolve pctest" error.
+
+Enjoy the new version.
+
+We'd appreciate feedback on how well it works under Linux. We've tested it
+with NVidia's accelerated modules, and some configurations give us problems
+(like 2 FPS rates), so we'd like to figure out what's wrong with these.
+Many thanks in advance.
+
+The distributions are linked on the news article on the home page of the
+	http://www.nevrax.org/
+web site.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1081da49 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000162.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compilation pb + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compilation pb

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Wed, 07 Feb 2001 20:28:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that "gl.h"
+includes "glext.h". And "glx.h" include "gl.h". And so on ... The conclusion
+is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+
+#ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+#define	GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+#endif
+
+and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+<GL/glx.h>).
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4d3a5c44 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000163.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] news about nevrax on /. + + + + + + +

[Nel] news about nevrax on /.

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:55:27 +0100 +

+
+ +
hello
+you certainly know it but there is a news a
+nevrax on slashdot : http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml
+sorry for this mail which don't deal with code
+but i think their some interresting comments about this news.
+i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+cheating and economic problems.
+
+and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+good luck guys !
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..97a050a2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000164.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] news about nevrax on /. + + + + + + +

[Nel] news about nevrax on /.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:06:58 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> and it seems that your website has been slashdoted :)
+
+Incidentally, the site handles the www & this list. Seem that sendmail
+is more resilient than apache.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cbc0b579 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000165.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] news about nevrax on /. + + + + + + +

[Nel] news about nevrax on /.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:05:45 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Nicolas Hognon:
+> hello
+> you certainly know it but there is a news a
+> nevrax on slashdot : http://slashdot.org/articles/01/02/07/197257.shtml
+
+I know. This evening (afternoon for the states), rsync failed with lotsa
+timeouts.
+
+Of course, I've seen since that I configured our sync badly, and we sync
+documentation and cvs repositories thru the Internet instead of using only
+out private links.
+
+> i don't read all of them but some of them told about
+> cheating and economic problems.
+
+I'll be heading there first thing today. Given my selection, the Nevrax
+story is on the very first page of my home page (set to Slashdot) when
+I logged on this morning.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..94a9b7ab --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000166.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compilation pb + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compilation pb

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:39:43 +0100 +

+
+ +
Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+modifications,
+but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 8:28 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Linux compilation pb
+
+
+> I couldn't compile src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl_texture.cpp, it was
+> lacking the prototype for a GL extension function. I found out that "gl.h"
+> includes "glext.h". And "glx.h" include "gl.h". And so on ... The
+conclusion
+> is that you must define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES (if needed) before *any* GL
+> inclusion. I took this block from driver_opengl_extension.h :
+>
+> #ifdef NL_OS_UNIX
+> #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES
+> #endif
+>
+> and moved it to the very beginning of driver_opengl.h (before the #include
+> <GL/glx.h>).
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d2c34a9a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000167.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:30:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
I compiled NeL from CVS the night before, and fetched snowballs data this
+morning (yes, after the slashdotting, I had something like a half-minitel
+feeling). The client took 20sec to display something (no CPU consumption
+though), then I connected to itsalive with a dummy login. Everything is
+fine, except my fps starting at 5 (the landscape just loaded) quickly
+sinking at 0.8 (I moved the mouse a little).
+
+My box is a Celeron-375, GeForce256, Linux 2.4.0 (Debian/woody). I'm running
+XFree 4.0.2 with Nvidia 0.9.6 drivers. Quake3 runs over 60fps with full
+options at 1024x768 (and really never hangs, yeees :)).
+
+More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the modeline
+is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different bitdepth
+under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..434efec8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000168.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some "heavy" perturbations... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some "heavy" perturbations...

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:48:46 +0100 +

+
+ +
You might have noticed the sluggish feel of the site, and the lack of
+prompt response by the mailing list (well maybe not).
+
+For those who didn't pay attention to the warnings earlier, we got
+referenced on Slashdot, which means about 1,000 people trying to click
+simultaneously on the link leading... well here.
+
+We don't have the infrastructure in place to handle this. Usually, no one
+has (it's kinda hard to justify putting enormous ressources to sustain a
+spike in traffic that will be mostly gone next week, once everyone had a
+look here).
+
+We've got however a bunch of new people coming here, so I'd like to say
+hello to all of you. I do hope you've browsed quickly thru the mail
+archives on the www.nevrax.org web site, and found it interesting. The
+list has gone mainly silent, with the odd compile problem cropping here
+and there, but that doesn't need to remain so.
+
+So, what do you think about NeL so far?
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..744d3b6f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000169.html @@ -0,0 +1,225 @@ + + + + [Nel] Computer Arts Lab + + + + + + +

[Nel] Computer Arts Lab

+ Carl Vilbrandt + root@cal05.u-aizu.ac.jp
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:32:44 +0900 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
+ boundary="------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67"
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+To all
+
+I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+entity.   Each
+AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+AutoCAD
+data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data with
+the real
+time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+time  simulation
+for visualization.
+
+I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+
+I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+temples in  the
+Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+studied with a master
+temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the last
+temple builder
+in this region.
+
+I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+in this area via the internet.
+
+I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+open source
+3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+anyone have any
+suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+
+http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+
+--
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp
+
+
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
+To all
+
I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake entity.  
+Each
+
AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link
+between AutoCAD
+
data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+with the real
+
time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system
+that uses a real time  simulation
+
for visualization.
+
I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+
I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models
+of temples in  the
+
Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes. 
+I studied with a master
+
temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+last temple builder
+
in this region.
+
I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+historical sites
+
in this area via the internet.
+
I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join
+and open source
+
3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin. 
+Does anyone have any
+
suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+
http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+
-- 
+Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+University of Aizu________________________________Computer Arts Lab
+Tsuruga, lkki-machi, Aizu-Wakamatsu City, Fukushima, 965-8580 JAPAN
+phone 81-242-37-2792 / fax 81-242-37-2772 / email vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp

+ 
+
+--------------EBECAA46486F223BD6B21E67--
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C
+Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii;
+ name="vilb.html"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: inline;
+ filename="vilb.html"
+Content-Base: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+Content-Location: "http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.htm
+	l"
+
+
+
+
+   
+   
+   Computer Arts Lab
+
+
+ 
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
CARL
+VILBRANDTUniversity
+of Aizu       
+Department of Software - Computer Arts Lab
+
Tsuruga, Ikki-machi,
+Aizu-Wakamatsu, Fukushima, JAPAN 965-8580
Curriculum
+Vitaeemail: vilb@u-aizu.ac.jp    
+
+Office 327-B
tel no: +81-242-37-2792    
+FAX +81-242-37-2772
Classes: 
+Computer Graphics
+
            
+Literacy 2
+
            
+Operating Systems		Research: 
+GNUbook.org
+
              
+
+HyperFun.org
+
              
+
+Aizu History Project

+
+

+
+
+--------------979DCFF70EA83EB1B5008E6C--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6597e3a6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000170.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ + + + + [Nel] Computer Arts Lab + + + + + + +

[Nel] Computer Arts Lab

+ Dave Turner + novalis@novalis.org
+ Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:31:46 -0500 +

+
+ +
> Carl Vilbrandt wrote:
+> 
+> To all
+> 
+> I have created in AutoCAD's extended entity data structure a Quake
+> entity.   Each
+> AutoCAD  / Quake entity as  a unique name so I have a link between
+> AutoCAD
+> data and Quake data such that I can manipulate the precise CAD data
+> with the real
+> time Quake entities.   I plan to create a CAD  system that uses a real
+> time  simulation
+> for visualization.
+> 
+> I have been looking at other game 3D engines.  Jet3D, Crystal 3D
+> 
+> I have created very precise highly computational base 3D models of
+> temples in  the
+> Aizu region of Japan for digital archival, historical purposes.  I
+> studied with a master
+> temple builder of this region that has no apprentices and he is the
+> last temple builder
+> in this region.
+> 
+> I want to setup historical server sites that allow users to visit the
+> historical sites
+> in this area via the internet.
+> 
+> I would like to start a dev group in the Computer Arts Lab an join and
+> open source
+> 3D real time  dev group.  I am not quite sure where to begin.  Does
+> anyone have any
+> suggestions or could offer some advice on where to start.
+> 
+> http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~vilb/vilb.html
+> 
+> --
+> Carl Vilbrandt, MFA, Associate Professor
+
+The big way to contribute to open source is to release under the GPL or
+a BSD-style license your autocad->quake converter.  I think there is a
+Quake3->Crystalspace map converter, which is something that you might
+want to consider when choosing an engine.  
+
+This sounds like a great project - have fun!
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+"It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures" - Pug
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..516b282a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000171.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:45:38 +0100 +

+
+ +
> More details: my desktop is 1152x864x32, the client.cfg was set to 800x600
+> fullscreen (32 bits) and the demo didn't switch to fullscreen (the
+modeline
+> is available). Btw, what do you do when someone request a different
+bitdepth
+> under X ? Simply ignore it or display a warning ?
+
+actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4a06c4c0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000172.html @@ -0,0 +1,53 @@ + + + + [Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Ran snowball on Linux+GeForce256

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:34:23 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> actualy, we don t manage the bitdepth and the fullscreen switch (sources are
+> available and feel free to add stuffs if you want ;)
+> everything about opengl is in driver_opengl.cpp!
+
+You can't change XFree bitdepth until you restart it ... For good GL init
+code, I suggest you take a look at SDL init code.
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..92afc180 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000173.html @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ + + + + [Nel] snowballs is slow + + + + + + +

[Nel] snowballs is slow

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:01:55 +0100 +

+
+ +
Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geek.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: <david.belius@chello.se>
+To: <snowballs@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 5:27 PM
+Subject: Re: [Snowballs] Runnign snowballs - Finally snowballs runs!
+
+
+> The font problem was because of how i compiled freetype.
+> Now snowball runs!
+> It looks very nice(especially the terrain) but it isn't very fast!
+> I get below 10 fps on my 800 mhz Athlon with 128 mb ram and a GeForce256
+> 32 MB DDR card(using detonator drivers) running win98se.
+> Is this somethign wrong with my configuration or are there optimizations
+> that haven't yet been made or something?
+>
+> /David
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Snowballs mailing list
+> Snowballs@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/snowballs
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..011c1ca0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000174.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Olivier Tarnus + olivier.tarnus@interact.lu
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:33:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+
+Hi ,
+
+And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+active OSS softwares comming from France....
+
+I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+find the configure script that should be included...
+
+Do i have to get it via CVS?
+
+Olivier Tarnus
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560
+Content-Type: text/x-vcard;
+	name="Olivier Tarnus.vcf"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
+Content-Disposition: attachment;
+	filename="Olivier Tarnus.vcf"
+
+BEGIN:VCARD
+VERSION:2.1
+N:Tarnus;Olivier
+FN:Olivier Tarnus
+TITLE:Web developer
+TEL;WORK;VOICE:+352 48 49 69
+EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:olivier.tarnus@interact.lu
+REV:20010209T133339Z
+END:VCARD
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C092A5.4B307560--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..99f35b0c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000175.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:08:14 +0100 +

+
+ +
Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+> 
+> Hi ,
+> 
+> And first thank you : I'm french and it's nice to see some
+> active OSS softwares comming from France....
+> 
+> I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+> find the configure script that should be included...
+
+It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4d65fb84 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000176.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:47:13 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vincent Caron wrote:
+> Olivier Tarnus wrote:
+> > 
+> > I've downloaded nel after the slashdot article, but i can't
+> > find the configure script that should be included...
+> 
+> It should be generated before being archived from CVS, I guess
+> the Nevrax guys forgot to do it. Run ./bootstrap.
+
+The version available on our web site are CVS ckeckout and not a distribution
+version. That's mean that the configure script will no be include but
+should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+
+The bootstrap script migth fail becuase some files are missing, so in that
+case reexecute the script., it will copy the missing files ...
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d53e92fa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000177.html @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation on Linux : no configure Script....

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:38:12 +0100 +

+
+ +
Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> should be generated from the configuration files (configure.in and
+> Makefile.in) by using the bootstrap shell script.
+
+Ooops you should read Makefile.am and not Makefile.in ... :-)
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b49c0175 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000178.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Hello Slashdot ! + + + + + + +

[Nel] Hello Slashdot !

+ Olivier Lejade + lejade@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:54:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ccc6ffc7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000179.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Hello Slashdot ! + + + + + + +

[Nel] Hello Slashdot !

+ Matthew Flagg + Matthew.Flagg@channelinx.com
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:06:20 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hey that would be me!  Hey guys.  Any of you on the Java3D list too maybe?
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: Olivier Lejade [mailto:lejade@nevrax.com]
+Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 2:54 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: [Nel] Hello Slashdot !
+
+
+I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers that followed the slashdot link.
+I replied to the most frequent comments here:
+
+http://www.nevrax.org/news/slashdot.php3
+
+Please don't hesitate to ask any question that crosses your mind and we'll 
+try to answer them as best as we can.
+
+Have a nice WE,
+
+O.
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b5419440 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000181.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Fri, 09 Feb 2001 23:03:30 +0100 +

+
+ +
put the include directory of stlport before
+in include from microsoft
+
+Slistak Shady wrote:
+
+> Hi-
+> 
+> This is my first time at tryng to compile everything. Current problem I 
+> have is the following error when compiling NeL.
+> 
+> C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+> #error :  "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+> file.cpp
+> 
+> 
+> I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and 
+> compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and 
+> lib file as per the INSTALL doc.
+> 
+> Any suggestions?
+> 
+> Thanks.
+> Brett
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5d060ea1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000182.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ =?ISO-8859-1?B?UvNiZXJ0IEJqYXJuYXNvbg==?= + robofly@in-orbit.net
+ Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:57:40 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Slistak,
+
+Friday, February 09, 2001, 1:47:18 PM, you wrote:
+SS> C:\NEVRAX\CODE\NEL\INCLUDE\nel/misc/types_nl.h(75) : fatal error C1189: 
+SS> #error :  "You need STLPort to compile this project (www.sltport.org)"
+SS> file.cpp
+
+SS> I'm sure it's just some config problem in my VC. I've downloaded and
+SS> compiled sltport and freetype, and told VC where to find the include and lib 
+SS> file as per the INSTALL doc.
+
+SS> Any suggestions?
+
+In VC, try going into the Tools->Options menu and move
+the reference to the stlport include files up using
+the up arrow.  This is for the compiler to find
+stlport before the standard MS libraries.
+
+Warm regards,
+Róbert
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..abbaa389 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000183.html @@ -0,0 +1,55 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ Slistak Shady + slistak@hotmail.com
+ Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:18:24 -0000 +

+
+ +
Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+
+Brett
+
+
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0e951974 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000184.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ + + + + [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting + + + + + + +

[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting

+ Mark Ewert + ewert@reflexnet.net
+ Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+It took me awhile to finally compile 0.2 of nevrax.org for windows, but =
+after numerous patches (some of them blatant kludges) I was able to =
+compile both the client and server.
+
+I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on how =
+to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all the =
+code ?
+
+A side note, I found the documentation overall to be quite sparse. I'm =
+sure this is something that will change as the project matures, but for =
+new users/developers especially better documentation would be much =
+appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test ;)
+
+Mark.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It took me awhile to finally compile =
+0.2 of=20
+nevrax.org for windows, but after numerous patches (some of them blatant =
+
+kludges) I was able to compile both the client and server.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought an interesting first step to =
+working with=20
+nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current environment. I =
+have=20
+briefly skimmed the AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A side note, I found the documentation =
+overall to=20
+be quite sparse. I'm sure this is something that will change as the =
+project=20
+matures, but for new users/developers especially better documentation =
+would be=20
+much appreciated. Of course, the lack of documentation could be a test=20
+;)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..11c504e4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000185.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Nel digest, Vol 1 #48 - 1 msg

+ Tels + nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com
+ Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:46:51 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+IMO it would be a good idea if the list disallowed attachments and/or html.
+HTML (even with javascript/background pictures) is nearly as bad as these
+unreadable vcard attachements and others ;o)
+
+- From my prevois ML experiences a simple rule/guideline to NOT do such
+things is not enough - admins, do you read me? ;)
+
+Oh and hi all. Still struggling with the slashdot effect I at least got the
+code and will start playing with it today.
+
+> Today's Topics:
+>   1. Documentation on Event/Character Scripting (Mark Ewert)
+> --__--__--
+> Message: 1
+> From: "Mark Ewert" <ewert@reflexnet.net>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:57 -0500
+> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80"
+> Subject: [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+> Content-Type: text/plain;
+>       charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+> ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C09390.966EEE80
+> Content-Type: text/html;
+>       charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+[snip]
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOoaIPncLPEOTuEwVAQHMZAf/QKnbk6DdXAVxioed8n1DsUtHOB+HqErS
+hZapigpP+10OZZVucyo0X9yLlmmMerHvPgCmAmTQG6ob2GXJWrPdH8Y6zO6IrRi7
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+=cpbF
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a8b88356 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000186.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting + + + + + + +

[Nel] Documentation on Event/Character Scripting

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:13:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+
+Hello Mark and thank you,
+
+>I thought an interesting first step to working with nevrax would be to =
+add events/characters in the current environment. I have briefly skimmed =
+the >AI/scripting environment and I did not find any documentation on =
+how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just reading through all =
+the code ?
+
+Yes we know and we are very sorry. At present we work on the =
+client/server modele for data distribution modele because events in AI =
+script work on local model. When we finish this work we'll write a doc. =
+It do'nt take long time do do this job.=20
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Mark and thank you,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt;I thought an interesting first step =
+to working=20
+with nevrax would be to add events/characters in the current =
+environment. I have=20
+briefly skimmed the &gt;AI/scripting environment and I did not find any=20
+documentation on how to introduce events ? Any advice besides just =
+reading=20
+through all the code ?</FONT></DIV></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes we know and we are very sorry. =
+</FONT><FONT=20
+face=3DArial size=3D2>At present we work on the client/server modele for =
+data=20
+distribution modele because events in AI script work on local model. =
+When we=20
+finish this work we'll write a doc.&nbsp;It do'nt take long time do do =
+this=20
+job.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0387_01C094D4.168F6DD0--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..1e170ee5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000187.html @@ -0,0 +1,54 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation under VC6 + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation under VC6

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:21:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Slistak Shady:
+> Thanks guys! Worked no problem. Now I can move on to further compiling.
+
+Another one for the FAQ "How to compile this beast" :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..949ede78 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000188.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux compilation pb + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux compilation pb

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:28:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 10:39:43AM +0100, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> Thank you a lot for this bug correction.
+> It's really strange because it compiles well on our linux system without any
+> modifications,
+> but I already heard about this problem, I'll correct it right now.
+
+Just a quick word to say that the problem just appeared here. The proposed
+correction seems to work.
+
+Larger report when compilation ends.. :-)
+
+	
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..44b2fc74 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000189.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT

+ Mark W. Oosterveld + moz@oosterveld.org
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:15:38 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+  I am one of the slashdot horde that descended on your project
+recently. I have done a cvs checkout of the latest soruce, and am triing
+to compile it under Visual C++ 6.0, sp 4, on both a Windows 98 box (at
+home) and an NT box (at work... don't tell anyone). Anyway, after
+installing STLport, FreeType, Python, and glext.h, I am able to compile
+all the libraries. But, when I try to build the client, I get the
+following error:
+
+
+LINK: warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBC" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe
+
+
+  Unfortunatly, my C++ is a little rusty, and my Windows Programing is
+almost non existant, but there is a main (and a WinMain) in client.cpp.
+I suspect I have a setting wrong in VC, but wouldn't even begin to know
+where to find it.
+
+Mark
+
+P.S. I am most interested in looking at (and possibly working on) the
+server side, but need to get a client up and running before I can really
+start looking at it in depth.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a75979d4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000190.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:53:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+
+Thanks.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..adcd1666 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000191.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compilation of snowballs.exe under Windows 98 and NT

+ Mark W. Oosterveld + moz@oosterveld.org
+ Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:28:13 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
Vianney,
+
+  Thank you. That worked perfectly. Now I just have to wait till I get
+home before I can run it. I was pretty sure it was a simple problem, but
+one that would have taken me days to track down. Thanks again.
+
+Mark
+
+On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+
+> Hello,
+> 
+> It's a bug. you have 3 ways to resolve it:
+> 1- The bug occurs only in ReleaseDebug mode so you could try in to change
+> the mode to Release, it will work fine (to change the mode, go to the menu
+> 'Build', 'Set Active Configuration' and select 'client - Win32 Release'
+> 2 - correct the bug yourself. It s very easy, select the 'ReleaseDebug'
+> configuration and go to 'Project', 'Settings' and go to the 'Link' tab. Then
+> search in the 'project options' text the string '/subsystem:console' and
+> remplace it by '/subsystem:windows'. and relink.
+> 3 - wait 24h and update the new cvs to get the fix.
+> 
+> Thanks.
+> 
+> Vianney Lecroart
+> ---
+> lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+> icq#: 6870415
+> homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+> www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+> w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4edaddef --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000192.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS

+ Zane + zane@users.sourceforge.net
+ Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:57:56 -0800 +

+
+ +
First off I'd like to say hello, I'm new to the list, one of the slashdot
+crowd that have descended upon you. :)  I'm a C/C++/VB^H^H^H/SQL developer
+and I've done mud development as a hobby for years
+(www.sourceforge.net/projects/embermud) so this project was immediately
+interesting to me.  I'm entirely a client/server developer with just a
+rudimentary understanding of 3D so I'll probably be contributing entirely in
+the server or client/server communcation areas.  Few questions for you all
+at Nevrax.
+
+Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+the website obsolete.
+
+Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+:).
+
+I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+
+What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+documentation available but as far I as I can tell there aren't many (or
+any) design documents available.  This would be especially nice for parts of
+the library that have yet to be developed.  Starting work on undeveloped
+portions of the library (the DB portion for instance) might be of interest
+to other developers.
+
+Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+your work to the community?
+
+Forgive me if I'm asking questions with answers that are readily available
+on your web-site but I've done my best to research beforehand.
+
+Thanks,
+E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0917b88f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000193.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:48:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+
+According to Zane:
+> Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+> keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+> NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+> the website obsolete.
+
+Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+
+> Have you all looked at using sourceforge for your public CVS front end?  The
+> site can be designed to look exactly like your current site (but I believe
+> would require a sourceforge graphic and link somewhere on the page) and
+> offers all the services you currently offer as well as more bandwidth and
+> will spare you from further slashdot type outages (at least to some degree
+> :).
+
+We could use Slashdot, yes. In fact, there's a NeL project registered
+on it "in case". Why aren't we using Sourceforge? Well, apart from the
+current rumors of source forge growing beyond its possibilities of support,
+we'd lose some of the control we have on the current public system. It's
+a relatively gray area, and one on which we aren't saying much, except,
+"well, right now we aren't".
+
+> I've read back through the mailing list archives and understand that you're
+> using a plugin to 3DSMax to create NeL objects.  Will you be releasing this
+> any time soon?  I know a few people that are not 3D developers (unable to
+> write a plugin) but would be interested in starting to build content.  I'm
+> curious why you haven't released it already?  (Yes, I'm nosy :)
+
+License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+(we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+the license from 3DS.
+
+> What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+
+No comment :)
+
+We know we should :)
+
+> Are you actually interested in other developers making major contributions
+> to this project pre-production or are you more interested in just offering
+> your work to the community?
+
+Both. Altough we haven't specifically announced things, we have a specific
+program and are opening CVS commit privileges to specific people, so we
+are looking for contributions, at all levels (from simple bug fixes to
+whole features).
+
+We don't guarantee we'll use everything, but if it "fits" within the
+NeL scope, we'll put it in, even if we don't use it ourselves (yet).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2933d50f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000194.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] samples for NeL!!! + + + + + + +

[Nel] samples for NeL!!!

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:00:00 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello all!
+
+In the nel directory we'll add a sample directory, you'll see it after the
+syncro of this night.
+It's very simple examples of some NeL features. There's more comments than
+code
+so it could be a very good way to learn how to use NeL.
+I commit them without tested them on linux because I think that it's really
+easy to correct them
+(if necessary) and anyway, people who want to take a look on NeL this week
+end could look them
+(even if they don't compile, there's lot of comment).
+There's no makefile but they'll come next week i think.
+Please, fell free to send bugfix in comment and/or code parts by email
+directly to my
+email (lecroart@nevrax.com) to avoid flooding this mailing list ;)
+
+Enjoy!
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4594952b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000195.html @@ -0,0 +1,164 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:13:35 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+I get the following errors:
+
+Compiling...
+driver_opengl.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_material.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+#include <GL/glext.h> // Please download it from =
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"
+
+I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which are =
+required).
+
+What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I get the following errors:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT=20
+size=3D2>Compiling...<BR>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_extension.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_material.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_matrix.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_texture.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's =
+a comment=20
+there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing =
+be in=20
+the readme file?)...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;&nbsp;// Please download =
+it from <A=20
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/">http://oss.sgi.com/p=
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/</A>"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&nbsp; I=20
+grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go =
+looking=20
+for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put=20
+them.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... =
+(both of=20
+which are required).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What am I missing?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_006E_01C098F4.32F60500--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b1dd3c6c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000196.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linking Services + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linking Services

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:17:42 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again.&nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+"stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+error&nbsp;when linking.&nbsp; I tried searching for references to this =
+.lib in=20
+all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never =
+found=20
+anything.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again, what am I missing?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0079_01C098F4.C59FCBC0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..777f9aa2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000197.html @@ -0,0 +1,215 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:26:03 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives and found the file I =
+needed.  I guess this means the documentation just needs to be updated =
+so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get it.
+
+Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:13 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+  -- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ 6.0.
+
+  I get the following errors:
+
+  Compiling...
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_extension.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_material.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_matrix.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  driver_opengl_texture.cpp
+  C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44) : =
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such file =
+or directory
+  Error executing cl.exe.
+
+  Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out there's a comment there =
+telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort of thing be in =
+the readme file?)...
+
+  #include <GL/glext.h> // Please download it from =
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/"
+
+  I go to do that, and there's 2 versions available.  I grab the most =
+recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can go looking for =
+these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to put them.
+
+  I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or gl.h... (both of which =
+are required).
+
+  What am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, I did some reading through the mail archives =
+and found=20
+the file I needed.&nbsp; I guess this means the documentation just needs =
+to be=20
+updated so people know to get this file (glext.h), and where to get=20
+it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's the URL for those of you looking for =
+it:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h"><FONT=20
+size=3D3>http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h</FONT></A><BR=
+></DIV></FONT>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djmark4@home.com href=3D"mailto:jmark4@home.com">Jared =
+Mark</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:13=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] gl.h</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>-- I'm compiling in win98, using MS VC++ =
+6.0.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I get the following errors:</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT=20
+  =
+size=3D2>Compiling...<BR>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\dri=
+ver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_extension.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\drive=
+r\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_material.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver=
+\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_matrix.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\o=
+pengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  =
+directory<BR>driver_opengl_texture.cpp<BR>C:\snowballs\nel\src\3d\driver\=
+opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(44)=20
+  : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'GL/glext.h': No such =
+file or=20
+  directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, so I go check the code, and I find out =
+there's a=20
+  comment there telling me to go download something (Shouldn't this sort =
+of=20
+  thing be in the readme file?)...</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>#include &lt;GL/glext.h&gt;&nbsp;// Please =
+download it from=20
+  <A=20
+  =
+href=3D"http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/">http://oss.sgi.com/p=
+rojects/ogl-sample/ABI/</A>"</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I go to do that, and there's 2 versions =
+available.&nbsp; I=20
+  grab the most recent, and unpack it to a temporary directory so I can =
+go=20
+  looking for these files, and maybe figure out exactly where I need to =
+put=20
+  them.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can find glx.h, but there is no glext.h or =
+gl.h... (both=20
+  of which are required).</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>What am I =
+missing?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C098F5.F096D480--
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..34215064 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000198.html @@ -0,0 +1,174 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linking Services + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linking Services

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sat, 17 Feb 2001 15:44:19 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the way... forgot to =
+change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL okay... and =
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).
+
+I was getting the error from the glext.h when building the =
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but then it goes to link and gives me this:
+
+Linking...
+LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "stlport_vc6.lib"
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+Which I'm assuming is why the services link is getting the error I =
+described below...
+
+So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with stlport.  Please =
+forgive me for being such a novice programmer. :)
+
+Can anyone help?
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: Jared Mark=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 3:17 PM
+  Subject: [Nel] Linking Services
+
+
+  Again.  Win98, MS VC++ 6.0
+
+  Linking...
+  LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file =
+"stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"
+  Error executing link.exe.
+
+  Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the above error when =
+linking.  I tried searching for references to this .lib in all of the =
+files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and never found =
+anything.
+
+  Again, what am I missing?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Okay, since I got the glext.h (I'm EagleEye by the =
+way...=20
+forgot to change which account I was sending from), I'm building NeL =
+okay... and=20
+I'm getting a new error... and I think it has something to do with the =
+services=20
+error I'm getting... (almost posative of it in fact).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was getting the error from the glext.h when =
+building the=20
+driver_openglfiles project in the NeL workspace... now it's compiling =
+okay, but=20
+then it goes to link and gives me this:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+"stlport_vc6.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Which I'm assuming is why the services link is =
+getting the=20
+error I described below...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So now I'm guessing I didn't do something right with =
+
+stlport.&nbsp; Please forgive me for being such a novice programmer.=20
+:)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Can anyone help?</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djmark4@home.com href=3D"mailto:jmark4@home.com">Jared =
+Mark</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 17, =
+2001 3:17=20
+  PM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] Linking =
+Services</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again.&nbsp; Win98, MS VC++ 6.0</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Linking...<BR>LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot =
+open file=20
+  "stlport_vc6_stldebug.lib"<BR>Error executing link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Everything builds just fine, but it fails with the =
+above=20
+  error&nbsp;when linking.&nbsp; I tried searching for references to =
+this .lib=20
+  in all of the files, and I did a search on my HD for this file, and =
+never=20
+  found anything.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Again, what am I=20
+missing?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_008F_01C098F8.7DFB33A0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..80e7236c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000199.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link Error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link Error

+ Slistak Shady + slistak@hotmail.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:42:10 -0000 +

+
+ +
I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is current 
+up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help? 
+Thanks.
+
+
+Linking...
+MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib" 
+conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol 
+_psaux_module_class
+Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+_________________________________________________________________
+Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e013ee77 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000200.html @@ -0,0 +1,222 @@ + + + + [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 05:24:55 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, and freetype...=20
+
+I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused about freetype.  I =
+do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, but it's not =
+named "freetype.lib"... it's named "freetype200b8MT.lib".  at one point =
+it created "freetype200b8.lib" also.
+
+I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the services .exe files to =
+compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)  I have all of the =
+client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle perhaps?).
+
+Client Files Project was not compiling because it said it needed =
+"freetype.lib".  Fine... I tried renaming the freetype200b8.lib file to =
+freetype.lib.  Didn't work.  So I tried the other one (the multithreaded =
+one), and it didn't work either.
+
+Here's what it's telling me...
+
+--------------------Configuration: client - Win32 =
+ReleaseDebug--------------------
+Linking...
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _main
+ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals
+Error executing link.exe.
+
+snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must not be doing =
+something right with freetype during the making of it.
+
+So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I had had some =
+problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured since =
+I had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project =
+files for freetype... here's what they're telling me.
+
+Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) build 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'
+Compiling...
+common.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or directory
+ftdump.c
+fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My =
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)
+
+It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, so y'all get the =
+idea.
+
+It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to figure =
+it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know I'm =
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something obvious or not.  If it's not something obvious, could someone =
+help me? :)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I completely ignored the makefile stuff for stlport, =
+and=20
+freetype... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I think I got it now, except, I'm a little confused =
+about=20
+freetype.&nbsp; I do the freetype make, and it creates a .lib just fine, =
+but=20
+it's not named "freetype.lib"... it's named "freetype200b8MT.lib".&nbsp; =
+at one=20
+point it created "freetype200b8.lib" also.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have gotten the NeL core to compile, and the =
+services .exe=20
+files to compile (they all run, but do nothing for me yet...)&nbsp; I =
+have all=20
+of the client projects compiling except one... (my last hurdle=20
+perhaps?).</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Client Files Project was not compiling because it =
+said it=20
+needed "freetype.lib".&nbsp; Fine... I tried renaming the =
+freetype200b8.lib file=20
+to freetype.lib.&nbsp; Didn't work.&nbsp; So I tried the other one (the=20
+multithreaded one), and it didn't work either.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Here's what it's telling me...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--------------------Configuration: client - Win32=20
+ReleaseDebug--------------------<BR>Linking...<BR>LINK : warning =
+LNK4098:=20
+defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library<BR>freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class<BR>MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error =
+LNK2001:=20
+unresolved external symbol _main<BR>ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 2 unresolved externals<BR>Error executing =
+link.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>snowballs.exe - 3 error(s), 1 =
+warning(s)<BR></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So, I know my freetype.lib isn't right... so I must =
+not be=20
+doing something right with freetype during the making of =
+it.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So I go back to freetype and check it out... well, I =
+had had=20
+some problems with the other parts of freetype compiling, but I figured =
+since I=20
+had the .lib file i didn't need to bother with the 3 other project files =
+for=20
+freetype... here's what they're telling me.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Build : warning : failed to (or don't know how to) =
+build=20
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c'<BR>Compiling..=
+.<BR>common.c<BR>fatal=20
+error C1083: Cannot open source file: 'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\common.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>ftdump.c<BR>fatal error C1083: Cannot open source file: =
+'C:\My=20
+Documents\MyProjects\snowball\freetype\demos\src\ftdump.c': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>ftdump_D.exe - 2 error(s), 1 warning(s)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's pretty much the same thing for the other two, =
+so y'all=20
+get the idea.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's 5am and I'm going to bed... Maybe tomorrow I'll =
+be able=20
+to figure it out on my own like I did my other stupid mistakes... I know =
+I'm=20
+missing something, but I'm too braindead right now to know if it's =
+something=20
+obvious or not.&nbsp; If it's not something obvious, could someone help =
+me?=20
+:)</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C0996B.20F12980--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4481f452 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000201.html @@ -0,0 +1,127 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling under Linux

+ Tels + nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:27:30 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+several nitpicks after my 2-hour adventures with ./configure under
+linux/gcc (SuSE 7.0):
+
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+
+http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/ seems to be the new
+url.
+
+StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+there is no "make install" for unix. Does this matter? I also run low on
+diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut down the size after
+making it?
+
+#checking for freetype-config... no
+#configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+#    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+
+Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+of freetype (which I was to delete).
+
+So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have "." in it's path.
+Now I try configure as user and get this:
+
+#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+#yes
+#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+
+Now my hour for this day is running out...
+
+The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+wrong and level one is named "./configure" ? ;-P
+
+Tels
+
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOo+4oncLPEOTuEwVAQEgbwf9GkgUnGjpRdaVlEc9cVgqIh+XfIHUk4+1
+PZUk8ArLuZpRR4RS6Qd7+V6dtwS4QCPGCNswDwB63Ce02DmAOFEE/wCpY/zWPDF+
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+=zPt+
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a823aaf5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000202.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux

+ Tels + nevrax_dummy@bloodgate.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:07:20 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+On 18-Feb-01 Tels tried to scribble about:
+[snip]
+>#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+>#yes
+>#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+>#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+
+I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOo/lIHcLPEOTuEwVAQGspQf9Hc5MtFur7l8qgwtMjJ6StaBFSfECyrna
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+/5/NSeaNu4c4mmlnWgcvmiyJZisJqm87QnljMzOnWoySHJyCU9vl6w==
+=Bbg8
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f95afc63 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000203.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link Error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link Error

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:48:57 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a lot like the thing I'm getting... especially the "use
+/nodefaultlib" thing.  I saw that and didn't know what it was referring to,
+or where I would have to "use" it.
+
+I wish someone could help us. :(
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Slistak Shady" <slistak@hotmail.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 2:42 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Link Error
+
+
+> I'm getting the following error compiling the client. My CVS tree is
+current
+> up to sat. Using VC6. I'm terrible at figuring this stuff out. Any help?
+> Thanks.
+>
+>
+> Linking...
+> MSVCRTD.lib(cinitexe.obj) : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "libcmt.lib"
+> conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _psaux_module_class
+> Debug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+> Error executing link.exe.
+> _________________________________________________________________
+> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..021fba84 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000204.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...

+ Julien Hognon + jhognon@chello.fr
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 22:34:48 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+(look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+buildings Nel under win32)
+
+> Jared Mark a écrit :
+[...]
+> Here's what it's telling me...
+> 
+> --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+> ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> Linking...
+> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of
+> other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _psaux_module_class
+> MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> _main
+> ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+> externals
+> Error executing link.exe.
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke    
+
+home 		: jhognon@chello.fr
+university	: jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr
+work		: julien@virtools.com
+
+ICQ number : 36110826
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3a006218 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000205.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:04:08 -0600 +

+
+ +
Okay, that worked... thanks
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Julien Hognon" <jhognon@chello.fr>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 3:34 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Okay, I'm getting this now...
+
+
+> Hi,
+> Have you tried to put the psauxmod.c files in your freetype project ?
+> (look at the post of Jérome Lanquetot : [Nel] some questions about
+> buildings Nel under win32)
+>
+> > Jared Mark a écrit :
+> [...]
+> > Here's what it's telling me...
+> >
+> > --------------------Configuration: client - Win32
+> > ReleaseDebug--------------------
+> > Linking...
+> > LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of
+> > other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> > _psaux_module_class
+> > MSVCRT.lib(crtexe.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+> > _main
+> > ReleaseDebug/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 2 unresolved
+> > externals
+> > Error executing link.exe.
+> >
+>
+>
+> --
+> HOGNON Julien   alias   Luke
+>
+> home : jhognon@chello.fr
+> university : jhognon@etudiant.univ-mlv.fr
+> work : julien@virtools.com
+>
+> ICQ number : 36110826
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e4388f18 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000206.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Compiling under Linux

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:15:49 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Tels:
+> >#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+> >#yes
+> >#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+> >#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+> 
+> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+Wow. And linux kept on working?
+
+On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..80d82f06 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000207.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling under Linux

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:49:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+
+As root :
+
+# mknod /dev/null c 1 3
+# chmod 666 /dev/null
+
+... and it's back to life again !
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f5a48e0b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000208.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Glaze + viktor@glaze.se
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:37:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+
+Viktor Godaly
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..59ff716b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000209.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:30:26 -0600 +

+
+ +
I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Glaze" <viktor@glaze.se>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:37 AM
+Subject: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+> Hello,
+>
+> I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it.
+I
+> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+>
+> Viktor Godaly
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..8aa9dbe3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000210.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS + + + + + + +

[Nel] Snowballs Data & CVS

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Vincent Archer:
+> Some quick answers, before we go further in detail.
+
+More detail today, as promised :)
+
+> According to Zane:
+> > Would it be possible to move the snowballs data into the CVS tree?  I'm
+> > keeping current with the CVS updates and evidentally some changes made to
+> > NeL or the client/server portion have rendered the data package offered on
+> > the website obsolete.
+> 
+> Hmmm, that's odd. It shouldn't have, but we'll look at it.
+
+We're still using the published data here, so it should not have been
+a problem. Are you sure you are using the latest data file? There are
+two on the web now, an old (NeL 0.2/Snowballs 0.1) and a new (NeL 0.3
+& Snowballs 0.2) packed format (which is a lot smaller).
+
+If you're using the one that came with the very first release, update. If
+not, then there's something very odd going on. Open a bug then, and we'll
+have a deep look at it.
+
+However, the point you raise is good, because one day we might encounter
+that specific problem. I'm checking exactly how we're going to put it,
+whether in the code/client tree, a specific code/data tree, or a
+fully separate module (since it isn't code per se).
+
+> License issues. Basically, we have a problem releasing a free plugin to
+> a commercial non-source software package. The GPL poses a lot of problems
+> (we can't give you a GPLed 3DSmax, can we?), and we haven't a satisfying
+> license yet that allows to get as close to GPL as we can, while respecting
+> the license from 3DS.
+
+I want to stress "we haven't... yet". We're trying to find a good solution
+to that problem (which basically boils down to using proprietary software
+right now, which limits our freedom of action, as usual).
+
+> > What about design documents for NeL?  You have a lot of auto-generated
+
+We're working on redoing the way we document things. Doxygen is good,
+but if no one writes documentation for it, it's as instructive as trying
+to learn tu use Unix from just the manual pages.
+
+But that's the usual problem with programming: programmers are interested
+in writing code, not writing prose. We strive to keep them from sliding
+too much in code-only mode :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c57d4267 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000211.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:51:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> 
+> Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the "Requirements" section.
+I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on it,
+but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile NeL,
+there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2b9cec97 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000212.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:04:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to EagleEye:
+> I would love dynamic load balancing... just add another server to your
+> cluster, and assign it a piece of the game world to take care of... perhaps
+> that city area that just got really popular in the last few weeks...
+
+That's not dynamic load balancing if you have to assign servers to a
+specific area. That's merely 'reconfigurable static' :)
+
+Ultima Online did this for their servers. They measured during beta
+a lot of statistics, and created a map of areas for allocation to all
+processors (server being ambiguous here, because their servers were
+multiprocessor boxes). That map could be redone at will, depending on
+the number of processors allocated to a shard. But once the shard was
+started, that was it. The only way to add a processor would be to
+split one area in two, and the whole migration process was hard
+enough that it wasn't worth (their words) the development cost vs the
+number of times it would be used.
+
+True dynamic load would mean that each processor would adjust its
+border (i.e. which objets it manages) according to its load, compared to
+its neighbours. If it has too high a load, then its border would shrink
+along its most lightly loaded neighbour, swapping objects between one
+and the other.
+
+Of course, that means a variable, almost fractal geometry of processors,
+and a processor that, at boot time, was serving city A and its adjacent
+areas could well, four days later, be serving chiefly the mountain range
+5km from there, because of simple "pressure". It looks nice from a
+strict research standpoint, but it's HELL for system management.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9fd303b8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000213.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Glaze:
+> Hello,
+> 
+> I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+> was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+
+Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+haven't answered this question.
+
+Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+
+If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+
+We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+each area is strictly separate).
+
+We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+   which process control
+
+What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+And so on.
+
+I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3f1a29c8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000214.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: Dave Null + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: Dave Null

+ Tels + tels@bloodgate.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:23:23 +0100 (CET) +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+
+Moin,
+
+> According to Tels:
+>> >#checking whether c++ accepts -g... \c
+>> >#yes
+>> >#./configure: /dev/null: Permission denied
+>> >#configure: error: can not run ./config.sub 
+>> 
+>> I accidentily descroyd my /dev/null (Dont ask). Sorry.
+> 
+> Wow. And linux kept on working?
+
+Until the next reboot, yes. Linux is more stable than I thought ;o)
+
+> On many unix systems, destroying /dev/null and /dev/zero means a
+> straight go to single user, and system repair using static binaries,
+> as a lot of dynamic linking uses these files (donno for what exactly).
+
+I booted from rescue disk (thanx suse!), then copied over /dev/zero.
+Unfortunately /dev/null got (why I dunno) 600, so user processes could not
+use it, so I changed it and now it seems to work all again. Whew. Now I
+need more time to figure out Nel.
+
+Cheers,
+
+Tels
+
+Tels
+
+- --
+ "Why do you go so slowly? Do you think this is some kind of game?"
+ http://bloodgate.com/thief/     Thief - The Dark Project
+ http://bloodgate.com/aifilter   Rewriting the HTML as we know it.
+ http://freedomforlinks.de       Fight for your right to link. 
+ PGP key available on http://bloodgate.com/tels.asc or via email.
+
+The email address contained in the From/Reply of this email is NOT
+to be displayed on webpages, entered into any mailing lists, given 
+to other people, used to send me electronic greeting cards without
+my written, signed permission. No SPAM nor UCE, either! Thank you!
+And PLEASE refrain from forwarding me chain letters, massmailings,
+or pyramid schemes.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: 2.6.3i
+Charset: latin1
+
+iQEVAwUBOpFTWHcLPEOTuEwVAQHoDwf9HlRBrdBXPzN7kMaNXfWAmErVLtAQ6gfO
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+=Dlhm
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..37287313 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000215.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling under Linux + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling under Linux

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:52:51 +0100 +

+
+ +
Tels wrote:
+> 
+> Freetype.org is down, I could not reach it for several days/weeks.
+> 
+> http://www.sourceforge.org/projects/freetype/ seems to be the new
+> url.
+
+Try the american mirror web site at http://freetype.sourceforge.net/, you
+will have access to the all the project home page.
+
+I updated the INSTALL and configure.in file to change tha FreeType
+homepage.
+
+
+> StlPort: Do I need to make it, or is simple unzipping enough? If yes,
+> please document this, the make takes for ever ;o) Also, for stlport,
+> there is no "make install" for unix. Does this matter?
+
+NeL is using the SGI iostreams, so i'm afraid that you will have to compile
+it.
+
+
+> I also run low on diskspace due to stlport ... is there anyway to cut
+> down the size after making it?
+
+you could do a 'make -f gcc.mak clean' to delete all the ojects files,
+it doesn't delete the library files ...
+
+
+> #checking for freetype-config... no
+> #configure: error: Cannot find freetype-config: check your path.
+> #    FreeType 2 library is needed to compile NeL (www.freetype.org).
+> 
+> Ugh, this file does not get installed, and only resides in the build dir
+> of freetype (which I was to delete).
+
+That's weird, it works fine for me :o)
+
+The installation line is in the builds/unix/install.mk file (line 51),
+Are you sure that the installation directory (ex: /usr/local/bin) is
+in your path ?
+
+> So I copied it in the nel pat, but root does not have "." in it's path.
+> Now I try configure as user and get this:
+
+The script is looking for freetype-config script in your path, it will change
+nothing to put in the NeL directoty, if it isn't in your path ;-)
+
+
+> The build process needs to be MUCH easier, if this game will ever come of
+> for Linux. Nobodies going to fiddle for 3 hours with it....or did I get it
+> wrong and level one is named "./configure" ? ;-P
+
+Thanks for your suggestion :-)
+
+We actually working on improving the documentation and build process, so it
+"migth" be easier in a near future ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000216.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000216.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..600cfbfc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000216.html @@ -0,0 +1,117 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Nahuel Greco + ngreco@softhome.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:01 -0300 +

+
+ +
On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:33:33 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> According to Glaze:
+> > Hello,
+> > 
+> > I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask it. I
+> > was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to balance
+> > the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> > balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+> 
+> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+> haven't answered this question.
+> 
+> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+> 
+> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+> 
+
+You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+
+
+> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+> each area is strictly separate).
+> 
+> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+>    which process control
+> 
+> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+> And so on.
+> 
+
+What are the "functional" parts that you will be planning? 
+
+
+How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+
+
+There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+
+
+> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+> 
+>
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000217.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000217.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..abdd65c1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000217.html @@ -0,0 +1,138 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:43:59 -0600 +

+
+ +
Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+
+By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+or on an even more molecular level (assuming you have a very large world
+with huge database demands) a database service that is strictly dedicated to
+handling certain types of objects (like dynamic world objects such as rocks
+and such, as opposed to character objects like their posessions in their
+backpacks for example).
+
+You would have other servers running the service managers for the AI of the
+monsters, etc, etc, etc...
+
+So instead of dividing up the world into geographical sectors and having a
+single system handle each sector... you would divide the world up into
+different processes, and have each system handle the specific process for
+the entire world.
+
+Let me know if I'm getting pretty close to what you're trying to say here.
+;)  My only question on the whole thing would be... what happens if you run
+into a problem where activity on a process gets to be too much for a
+server... would you be forced to upgrade that server?  Or could you
+theoretically split the process between two systems?  (running the same
+serice twice in the same cluster, on different systems).
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 10:33 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Dynamic load balancing?
+
+
+> According to Glaze:
+> > Hello,
+> >
+> > I have one "small" question and I hope this is the right place to ask
+it. I
+> > was just wonder how (or if) you will solve the question of how to
+balance
+> > the workload on the game servers, will you use some kind of dynamic load
+> > balancing or have you opted for another approach.
+>
+> Hmm, I realise I've explained what is dynamic load balancing, but I
+> haven't answered this question.
+>
+> Let's hope we have a good discussion on this :)
+>
+> If you look at some of the basics in the... ok in the future design
+> documents, you see we're working with a kind of ORB approach, with
+> a naming service, which lets you discuss with specific services.
+>
+> We're aiming for a functional approach, not the classic EQ/UO/AC
+> geographical approach. In that classic model, each processus is a
+> complete copy of the code. It contains everything, from spell effects
+> to pathfinding to combat code. Each process serves a specific "area",
+> which is defined by an X/Y/Z box (or, for EQ, a zone ID number, since
+> each area is strictly separate).
+>
+> We're not going to use this approach. Chiefly because static allocation
+> fails when you put too many objects in the same area (be it because a
+> guild has decided to hold a meeting of all its 350 members there, or
+> because we want to have an event with an army of 100 mobs spawning).
+> And, as I explained somewhere else, dynamic allocation means:
+> 1) A complete lack of control on what process is doing what, and
+> 2) A need for a very fast way of finding who is near you and under
+>    which process control
+>
+> What we're aiming for is a functional approach. That is, each service
+> provides specific functions. For example, all items in the game are
+> handled by a single service. Combat runs on a separate service.
+> And so on.
+>
+> I'll let you imagine how this works, and then will further explain as
+> you try to shoot holes into that design. :)
+>
+> --
+> Vincent Archer                                         Email:
+archer@nevrax.com
+>
+> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road
+we go!
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000218.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000218.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e37cc7a7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000218.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:46:39 -0600 +

+
+ +
Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+under the heading of  "On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+libraries and softwares :"... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+let my mind skip over it. :)
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Valignat Cedric" <valignat@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:51 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] gl.h
+
+
+> EagleEye wrote:
+> >
+> > Here's the URL for those of you looking for it:
+> > http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+>
+> There is something about it in the INSTALL file, at the "Requirements"
+section.
+> I know that our documentation is far to be complete, and we are working on
+it,
+> but you should read the INSTALL file *carefully* before trying to compile
+NeL,
+> there is some usefull informations in it ;-)
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000219.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000219.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..67b4f8c2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000219.html @@ -0,0 +1,144 @@ + + + + [Nel] Building a FAQ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Building a FAQ?

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:56:00 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+What better way to build a FAQ than to have questions that are actually =
+"frequently asked", right?
+
+Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm not exactly an =
+above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my =
+limited experience and expertise.
+
+1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled, =
+what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE to =
+edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle all =
+game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the core =
+components?
+
+2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, =
+etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you =
+can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software =
+restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank =
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I =
+have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in =
+terms of latteral area?)
+
+That's it for now...=20
+
+Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)
+--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with this stuff still. :)
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>What better way to build a FAQ than to have =
+questions that are=20
+actually "frequently asked", right?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Well, as everyone has probably guessed by now, I'm =
+not exactly=20
+an above-average programmer... so I'm going to ask some very basic =
+questions=20
+that will probably get asked quite a bit by others of my limited =
+experience and=20
+expertise.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services =
+packages all=20
+compiled, what do I do with it to actually start building MY =
+world?&nbsp; Do I=20
+HAVE to edit the code and recompile?&nbsp; Or is this package meant to =
+handle=20
+all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the =
+core=20
+components?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) What are the limitations on world size, max =
+number of=20
+connections, etc, etc?&nbsp; I understand there are obvious hardware=20
+restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking =
+about=20
+software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a =
+bank=20
+account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?&nbsp; Will =
+I have=20
+issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of =
+latteral=20
+area?)<BR></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That's it for now... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Jared Mark (aka EagleEye)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>--- Please don't hate me because I'm an idiot with =
+this stuff=20
+still. :)</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C09A8C.74599220--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4ff8c590 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000220.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Compiling on Linux.... + + + + + + +

[Nel] Compiling on Linux....

+ James Hearn + james.hearn@byu.edu
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:42:40 -0600 +

+
+ +
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm having trouble getting Nel
+to compile on linux. Or rather, getting the client and server to compile
+on linux. Nel itself compiles. When compiling the client or server
+libraries, I get this error:
+
+/home/james/downloads/STLport-4.0/lib/libstlport_gcc.so: undefined
+reference to `_STL::_Stl_prime<bool>::_M_list'
+
+I have installed the stlport libs and even compiled them (!). 
+I also installed Freetype 2.0 and Mesa 4.0.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+
+James Hearn
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..999aadf2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000221.html @@ -0,0 +1,161 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Jared Mark + jmark4@home.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:41:44 -0600 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+
+I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core =
+engine...
+I then try to get people to play the game...
+People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+but no profit can be made on that...)
+I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of =
+money...
+
+But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can =
+request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's =
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+
+So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my =
+game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my =
+entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" =
+that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service =
+themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+
+If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the =
+whole "open source" thing...=20
+
+My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want =
+to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort =
+of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a =
+"bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT =
+stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+*scratches head*=20
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1801" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I just want to make sure I understand this=20
+right...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I use this source code to build the base of my=20
+game...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I do all sorts of work to make my own game built =
+around this=20
+core engine...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I then try to get people to play the =
+game...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>People get the game (for free, or at least, for the =
+cost of=20
+shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I charge for the monthly service to the game, and =
+make boat=20
+loads of money...</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>But then, because of the way this license reads, =
+someone else=20
+can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game =
+that's=20
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...=20
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So if all of the above is correct... what is the =
+point of me=20
+making my game using NeL in the first place?&nbsp; When someone can just =
+steal=20
+my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive =
+works" that=20
+are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... =
+
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If I'm completely off here, I appologise.&nbsp; I'm =
+extremely=20
+new to the whole "open source" thing... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay =
+concepts=20
+that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, =
+or any=20
+sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I =
+consider a=20
+"bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... =
+and this=20
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if =
+I choose=20
+to use NeL as my core code?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>*scratches head*&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09AA3.9B7D49C0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c6b8fd2f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000222.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Bryce Harrington + bryce@neptune.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:12:38 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+their license.
+
+NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+
+NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+reliability, and customer service.
+
+(This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+
+Bryce
+
+On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+
+> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> 
+> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+> I then try to get people to play the game...
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+> 
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+> 
+> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> 
+> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole "open source" thing... 
+> 
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> 
+> *scratches head* 
+> 
+
+-- 
+Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket Scientist
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE iMSDW
+bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @ yahoo.com
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d18393c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000223.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ James Hearn + james.hearn@byu.edu
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:32:33 -0600 +

+
+ +
Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> 
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+> 
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+> 
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+> 
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+> 
+> Bryce
+> 
+> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+> 
+> > I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> >
+> > I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> > I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core engine...
+> > I then try to get people to play the game...
+> > People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+> > I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of money...
+> >
+> > But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+> >
+> > So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> >
+> > If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole "open source" thing...
+> >
+> > My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> >
+> > *scratches head*
+> >
+
+I've been speaking with Jared, and it seems he is not opposed to open
+source. However, he wonders (as do I) where Nel ends and our code
+begins. Does any project using nel have to release *all* of its source
+code? Or just modifications to Nel itself? Modifications to Nel should
+*of course* be open source. It is basically things like game logic that
+Jared is concerned about.
+
+--James Hearn
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000224.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000224.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cd11a76f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000224.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:35:48 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).  
+In return for giving a good base set of libraries, Nevrax hope to get 
+lots of free contributions to their project. This isn't as evil as it sounds
+since everyone is still free to work on whatever parts they like, and
+hopefully they will remain fairly lenient on what features make it in to the
+repository. (Ie, don't just include what _they_ want. I don't imply
+they should be lenient on content. Be code nazis, keep ugly code out :P)
+Of course, if they behave in a manner you feel is not conducive to
+the spirit of open-source development, you're free to split off your own 
+version of the tree.
+
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+
+This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+
+What they do get of course, is that little mod you did to the game engine
+for pretty-as-hell lens effects. Or your modified particle engine
+to accurately model a fireball. Anyone who looks at the current crop of games
+will tell you that it's not this sort of thing that makes or breaks a game.
+
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+Yeah, ditto the not associated with Nevrax thing... 
+unless they feel like hiring of course ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000225.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000225.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..07d13860 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000225.html @@ -0,0 +1,156 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ EagleEye + eagleeye@flashmail.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:26:46 -0600 +

+
+ +
Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering "exactly
+where does their code stop, and my code begin?"
+
+Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+my world.
+
+I can understand sharing a new add-on, such as the ability to use DirectX 8
+with NeL... I can understand adding functionality to the core engine... that
+I wouldn't mind giving up to the general masses.  Heck, I don't care if I
+give up the artwork!  What's important to me is keeping my gameplay designs
+proprietary.  I don't want someone copying my game's LOGIC... because to me,
+that's what will make my game innovative, and will be the main reason people
+will play it.  If I give that up freely, I might as well go for a different
+core package.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Bryce Harrington" <bryce@neptune.net>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 7:12 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.
+
+
+> If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> their license.
+>
+> NEL, like other open source things, operates on a share-and-share-alike
+> principle.  Nevrax is being very generous in providing their code
+> openly, so you can see it and use it without having to pay any fees.
+> The one condition that they have asked in return is that you do
+> likewise.  You have to decide for yourself if their price is acceptable,
+> and if so, you're bound to abide by it.  If it isn't, then you should
+> use a different piece of code more to your liking (or write your own).
+>
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code; perhaps you could follow that approach as
+> well.  Or else you could strive to compete with other users of your
+> modified code on the basis of name recognition, performance,
+> reliability, and customer service.
+>
+> (This is community service - I'm not associated with NEL in any way, but
+> admire that they are actually making their source code Free.)
+>
+> Bryce
+>
+> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jared Mark wrote:
+>
+> > I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> >
+> > I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> > I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+engine...
+> > I then try to get people to play the game...
+> > People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+but no profit can be made on that...)
+> > I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+money...
+> >
+> > But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can
+request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's
+exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing...
+> >
+> > So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+game using NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire
+game (not just the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are
+packaged with it as a whole), and run the game service themselves...
+basically, taking me out of the loop entirely.
+> >
+> > If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the
+whole "open source" thing...
+> >
+> > My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want
+to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of
+innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger
+and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have ever done... and this
+license is basically saying that I have to give all of THAT stuff up if I
+choose to use NeL as my core code?
+> >
+> > *scratches head*
+> >
+>
+> --
+> Bryce Harrington  ~  ACME General Purpose Hacker / Designer / Rocket
+Scientist
+> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
+----
+> SBL SBIRS/Low NPOESS NGST  HarrGene CivII WorldForge Eidetic Circe STAGE
+iMSDW
+> bharrington @ msdw.com     bryce @ neptune.net     bryceharrington @
+yahoo.com
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000226.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000226.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7cfbe342 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000226.html @@ -0,0 +1,166 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Sal + svferro@earthlink.com
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:50:42 -0500 +

+
+ +
> I just want to make sure I understand this right...
+> I use this source code to build the base of my game...
+> I do all sorts of work to make my own game built around this core
+engine...
+> I then try to get people to play the game...
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it,
+but no profit can be made on
+> that...)
+
+    The last point isn't necessarily true.  You could likely sell your game
+for as much as you want.  As Red Hat sells Linux.  The GPL only insures that
+the source code to the binaries in your distribution must be made available.
+It doesn't cover the media you make, the documentation you write. People
+don't have the right to redistribute your custom media, or your custom game
+manuals.  Downloading the binary still won't grant you ability to play the
+game... you need the media.  Which is where the advantage is in the GPL game
+market in comparison to something like an operating system, such as Linux.
+
+    In short, you can still make money off of a GPL game.  Though I would
+rather see companies release all their artwork under an opencontent license,
+they don't have to.
+
+> I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+money...
+
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request
+the entire source code to
+> my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people
+to use it just like I am
+> doing...
+
+    If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+would have to be redistributed, but you could create pretty unique worlds
+and plots by simply editing some serverside database.  Which entails
+creating maps, placing NPCs, possibly even defining rules such as what
+skills players have.
+
+    I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+be copywritten material.
+
+    And if you were able to modify the Nel code to make a better game...
+then someone that uses your code could likely make a better game yet. And
+the code that they created, you could use yet again in your own server.
+Opensource has many advantages related to software quality. Imagine how many
+people would be working to fix bugs and improve the codebase that is
+powering your world, in comparison to a proprietary codebase.
+
+> So if all of the above is correct... what is the point of me making my
+game using
+> NeL in the first place?  When someone can just steal my entire game (not
+just
+> the NeL source, but all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with
+it as a
+> whole), and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of
+the loop
+> entirely.
+
+    I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+(not artwork, media. documentation, rules, etc.).  And I think its fair that
+you would be required to release your source changes, since its the hard
+work of others that makes your game possible, and they just want to make
+sure that your code improvements to their product will be made available.
+
+    Again, your game could have plenty of copywritten material that would
+not be easily 'stolen', and in fact, would be the equivalent of stealing the
+ruleset and media from an proprietary game, such as Asheron's Call or
+Everquest.  Which is prosecutable.
+
+    Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+
+    I also could not sell CD's of Everquest, because in order for their
+client to be useful it needs all the copywritten material that comes on the
+Everquest CD.
+
+> If I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+"open source"
+> thing...
+
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I want to
+implement...
+> having nothing to do with graphical quality, or any sort of innovative
+programming...
+> I have plot, and I have what I consider a "bigger and better plan" than
+anything UO or
+> EQ or AC have ever done... and this license is basically saying that I
+have to give all of
+> THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+    Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+_everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+libraries used in conjunction with them.
+
+    I'm not a lawyer, by any means. But I have some experience in developing
+opensource gaming software. I think a lot of people share the same
+misconceptions, which is why I felt compelled to reply.  I'm of the opinion
+that opensource and games are a perfect match.  Its really a no-lose
+situation, if you're thinking of developing your own game.
+
+- Sal
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000227.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000227.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf38cdd8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000227.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Bryce Harrington + bryce@neptune.net
+ Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:45:30 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 05:12:38PM -0800, Bryce Harrington wrote:
+> > If it is important to you to keep your IP closed, then you should use a
+> > closed library rather than an open one.  There are many other libraries
+> > out there that allow for keeping stuff proprietary, and some of them are
+> > quite good.  Some require fees or other charges in return for use of
+> > their license.
+> This is a bit misleading. The game world is also your IP. This bit of IP
+> would most definitely stay closed, in any commercial concern. And in general
+> even most free (the beer sense, not the speech) games worlds. Having your
+> game world ripped off does happen (it happened to DiscWorld mud, not that
+> it's exactly 'killed' them,  but they did from memory end up making
+> the sourcecode harder to get hold of). 
+
+That's true; I meant only the IP additions to the NEL sourcecode, which
+appeared to be what the original poster was interested in.  As Sal said,
+the game content would be handled differently.
+
+I'm less sure of the rules regarding dynamic linking and scripting.  I
+think "linking is linking", so the former would fall under GPL rules,
+whereas the latter I would hazard to guess falls more into the "content"
+category and thus can be arbitrarily licensed.  But this seems like a
+very grey area, and seeking out ways to get around the author's intents
+and use their work on terms of dubious legality doesn't seem like a
+kosher thing to do.  
+
+In any case, you can always try negotiating with Nevrax for special
+licensing terms; I'm sure they're open to making more money.  ;-)
+ 
+Bryce
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000228.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000228.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a653f3ad --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000228.html @@ -0,0 +1,54 @@ + + + + [Nel] gl.h + + + + + + +

[Nel] gl.h

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:45:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> Ahh, right you are.  I skipped over that part because it seemed to still be
+> under the heading of  "On a GNU/Linux platform you will need the following
+> libraries and softwares :"... since that doesn't apply to me, I just kinda
+> let my mind skip over it. :)
+
+You right, it isn't very clear, i going to fix that ... :-)
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000229.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000229.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eafe2459 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000229.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:56:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+> Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+> 
+> By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+> different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+> would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+> and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+
+We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+
+The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+think.
+
+One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+(?)
+
+Best regards,
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000230.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000230.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d7b56776 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000230.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Thierry Mallard:
+> On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 03:43:59PM -0600, Jared Mark wrote:
+> > Okay, so what you're saying is basically this...
+> > 
+> > By seperating the services, you can have a cluster of machines, each running
+> > different services, and thus, keeping the load down across the board.  You
+> > would have a single system, for example, handling just combat resolution,
+> > and you would have another system that would keep track of the database...
+
+Basically, yes. It may be more complicated than this. For example, we must
+strive to keep only a single service handling items, while we may run
+multiple concurrent instances of AI services to have lots of smart bots.
+
+> We may have to add features concerning high-availability, as this scheme
+> doesn't allow it : if the computing holding the combat resolution fails, the
+> world will be a heaven of peace  ;-)
+
+It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+modes.
+
+> The second point is that if a service grow too much, the load-balancing won't
+> respond to the problem. You mentionned this point in your previous mail I
+> think.
+> 
+> One possible architecture is to write separate process, and give two or three
+> computer the responsiblity to distribute, by monitoring the farm, those
+> process. I dunno if such scheme is possible w.r.t. the current NeL objectives
+
+It is. In fact, a lot of services will be spread across different nodes,
+but that's because these services are 'linear': each agent it manages
+deals chiefly with itself. On the other hand, some are harder to split.
+Item management for example, because of ownership and transfer issues:
+if item A is owner by entity E, and all items of entity E are on server S1,
+what happens when item is given to entity D, whose items are all on the
+server S2. You break locality, which defeats the purpose of functional
+services.
+
+However, for load balancing purpose, one feature of functional split is
+quite simple. If your item server, for example, manages 300,000 currently
+present items, it doesn't matter if everyone currently on-line decides
+to cluster in a single city: there are still 300,000 items to manage, and
+the amount of item interactions haven't changed much.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000231.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000231.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..110c8aea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000231.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Nahuel Greco:
+> You will use standard CORBA?, wich orb?
+
+Not CORBA. As I said, 'a kind of ORB approach'. Not a straight lift
+from existing solutions, who are nice from a development point of view,
+but whose features are too generic and too heavy for optimisation.
+
+> What are the "functional" parts that you will be planning? 
+
+I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+but you'll have chiefly:
+- access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+  requests)
+- PC manager services
+- combat services
+- item services
+- databaser service (only one)
+- pathfinding services
+- bots service (AI)
+- magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+  other services as exceptions to their rules)
+
+then some geographic-based services
+
+- ecology managers
+- state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+  ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+  all it does)
+
+and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+
+I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+agent for some cases.
+
+> How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+> in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+> enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+> the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+
+We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+while you were away).
+
+Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+
+> There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+
+The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+moves).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000232.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000232.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b22b7064 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000232.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Nahuel Greco + ngreco@softhome.net
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:19:04 -0300 +

+
+ +
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> I don't have the exact split, which is deeply tied into game design,
+> but you'll have chiefly:
+> - access services (who translate between client protocol and service
+>   requests)
+> - PC manager services
+> - combat services
+
+I must switch to combat mode in the game?, i mean, when i combat, the scenary
+and the gameplay changes, like in the PSX rpg games?
+
+> - item services
+> - databaser service (only one)
+> - pathfinding services
+> - bots service (AI)
+> - magic services (maybe, I'm not 100% sure if these aren't managed by the
+>   other services as exceptions to their rules)
+> 
+
+If the bots service want to pathfind to some location, they must ask to the
+pathfinding service?, and the pathfinding service must ask to the "state
+tracking" ?, suposse that i have a bot script, running in the bot service, 
+in some routine i must see if i can walk to some location, on the nort, on the
+ south, etc, to decide later where i will walk.. then.. each bot script 
+get_is_reachable() function will trigger a query to another service, and must 
+wait the response of that service  to continue the code execution.
+
+for thousands of scripts, that will be too slow, without thinking in the
+"wait, is your query is in the queque" issue.
+
+
+and btw, what scripting language do you plan to use for the code that will
+execute in thousand of instances..?
+
+
+
+> then some geographic-based services
+> 
+> - ecology managers
+
+That will instantiate, for example.. more gold to keep the economy ok ?
+
+
+> - state tracking (the true geography service. That one knows where mobs,
+>   ground items, and PC are relative to each other... but that's about
+>   all it does)
+> 
+> and a few others, I think, who are related to higher-level game dynamics.
+> 
+> I might be off, there's still questions on which service handle which
+> agent for some cases.
+> 
+> > How do you plan to send the map to the user, i mean, if you divide the game
+> > in areas, you can say the client to download the map for an area before
+> > enter, but if you dont use the area-divided approach, then, you must send
+> > the sorrounding terraing at each step that the client do?
+> 
+> We use a 'mainly static terrain' approach. I.E. the client already has the
+> various maps parts on-line. We only send gross modifications (i.e. replace
+> this map part with that pre-patched one, so the rope bridge across the chasm
+> is no longer there) and local items information (some trees have grown
+> while you were away).
+> 
+> Sending the map on the fly requires substantial sacrifices in term of map
+> complexity (see Asheron's Call for a good example for this).
+> 
+> > There is no risks of overloading the internal network / get out of sync?
+> 
+> The functional approach is made by looking at the communication between
+> agents, and putting all agents that discuss with each other the most in
+> the same services, to avoid network load. Note that agents do *not*
+> migrate across the network, ever (i.e. a PC full state is always managed
+> by a specific PC service, regardless of what the PC does or where he
+> moves).
+> 
+> -- 
+> Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+> 
+> Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000233.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000233.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fda78d76 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000233.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Nahuel Greco + ngreco@softhome.net
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:21:38 -0300 +

+
+ +
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:20:32 +0100
+Vincent Archer <archer@nevrax.com> wrote:
+
+> 
+> It's all a compromise. If a geographic server (in a geographic approach)
+> fails, suddendly, part of the world becomes unpassable. You can't log in
+> if you were in them, you can't enter them, and so on. Different failure
+> modes.
+> 
+
+Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+the zones are fixed or dynamic?
+
+
+
+----------------------------------------------------------
+Nahuel Greco                 Web Development - Open Source
+http://www.codelarvs.com.ar  Game Programming - Research
+Freelance coding / sysadmin  Networking. The answer is 42.
+----------------------------------------------------------
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0bb912f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000234.html @@ -0,0 +1,186 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:36:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
Wow, lots of questions.
+
+Ok, I'll try to summarise the replies to your points, without too much
+dilution. Bear with me, this is quite long, but I'll try to be as
+unambiguous as possible.
+
+Jared Mark said:
+> People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping it, =
+> but no profit can be made on that...)
+
+Point one: As explained somewhere else, the GPL make software "free" as
+in "freedom", not "free" as in "free of charge". You can pretty well make
+as much money as you want from your own game. The only thing is, if
+someone who got the program requests it, you have to give them access to
+the source for no more than reproduction costs on a "standard support"
+(i.e. giving only printouts of the code doesn't count) and shipping charges.
+
+Usually, people preventively put it on a download site somewhere, so
+they don't have to handle code requests on an individual basis. But
+that's not mandated.
+
+There are also other strings attached, namely, if you use that source
+you got to build a program which you distribute, you also have to provide
+the modified *OR* original (if unmodified) source under the same license
+terms.
+
+So:
+> But then, because of the way this license reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use it just like I am doing... 
+
+Eagle Eye said:
+> Well, as someone else put it in a private chat... I'm wondering "exactly
+> where does their code stop, and my code begin?"
+
+But what is code exactly? Code is the little thingy that makes a lens
+flare when looking toward the sun. Code is the special multipurpose
+network protocol that communicate reliably across the Internet (ahem).
+Code is the state automaton engine that handles your mobs.
+
+Code is not the 1000-line table of all items and their stats. Code is not
+the list of states and transitions a mob (btw, if anyone wonders about that
+term, it's an old MUD term for 'mobile object', i.e. all autonomous entities
+in the game that have a behaviour, as opposed as just having properties).
+Code is not the glossy metal and rivets texture on your door. Code is not
+the wondrous mocaped triple head kick to smash a skull. Code is not the
+cuckoo sound you hear while walking thru a forest in game.
+
+The GPL doesn't cover these parts at all.
+
+Bryce Harrington said:
+> NEL keeps their game _content_ (e.g., artwork) proprietary while
+> releasing their source code
+
+Minor nitpick: It's Nevrax, not NeL. NeL is the library, not the
+company :)
+
+But that's the gist of it. We do offer the code under a GPL license,
+but we retain the traditional copyright on our intellectual property.
+
+So, we don't want your game design. We can't get your game design.
+It's all yours. But if you add code to run a game using sensor gloves as
+the user interface and 3D glasses, then we have a right to request the
+code for that. We can then reuse the "HOW" you use them to play, but not
+the "WHY" you use them. How is code. Why is your game design.
+
+Eagle Eye said:
+> Do I get to keep the coding behind the interaction rules of my game to
+> myself?  My skill system, and the way characters develop within the game...
+> the way my player housing system, and player governments system is
+> handled... is that mine to keep?  I guess a lot of it depends on how I go
+> about forming those rules... and that depends on how NeL allows me to build
+> my world.
+
+Hmm, we have a little legal problem there. It's basically straight copyright
+law.
+
+Basically, you cannot copyright an idea. It's got nothing to do with whether
+NeL is GPL or a $1,000,000 licensed game engine, so don't let NeL's license
+stop you.
+
+You cannot copyright an idea. To take an example, let's say you're using
+a system of skill trees that are enabled by pre-required skills, level
+and required characteristics combinations, so that the "Accurate Eye Shot"
+skill requires Marksmanship, a level of 17, and a minimum dexterity of 38.
+
+You cannot prevent anyone from using a system of skill trees that require...
+(you get the gist). However, you can forbid anyone from using a set of
+skills that basically is a copy of yours. They have to make their own set
+of skills, and make them different "enough". That's where it gets tricky.
+The "enough" part is usually settled by court when there's a dispute.
+Merely renaming "Accurate Eye Shot" by "Advanced Bowmanship" doesn't
+count (usually), but the frontier between "my skill trees" and "your
+skill trees" isn't a straight and obvious line.
+
+To take a known analogy, copyright law doesn't prevent you from doing a
+novel set in the south during the civil war, with romance, and all that.
+However, copyright law will prevent you from calling your main character
+"Scarlett O'Hara".
+
+Leighton Haynes said:
+> This should be stressed a bit more. It's basically impossible for them to
+> 'duplicate' your mud/whatever without the content. Content is not just artwork,
+> but all the sounds, probably most of the look of the interface, the scripts 
+> which control the AI behaviour. Basically, if they can take your sourcecode, 
+> and duplicate your mud, you haven't doine very much :)
+
+"You have entered Ankh Morpok north". :)
+
+(sorry for the obscure MUD reference. I do hope people will recognise it)
+
+To get back to the initial post
+> My main concern is that I have a bunch of gameplay concepts that I
+> want to implement... having nothing to do with graphical quality, or
+> any sort of innovative programming... I have plot, and I have what I
+> consider a "bigger and better plan" than anything UO or EQ or AC have
+> ever done... and this license is basically saying that I have to give
+> all of THAT stuff up if I choose to use NeL as my core code?
+
+Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+flag flying at the top of the keep.
+
+But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+
+> *scratches head* 
+
+/em massages Jared's shoulders.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000235.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000235.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bb9a5344 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000235.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:55:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
Well, you summarised my summaries...
+
+According to Sal:
+>     If I'm not mistaken, the things that define your game would mostly be
+> located in serverside databases. Yes any modification to the server _code_
+
+There are probably a few minor code modifications, required to support
+very specific rules (if you want to run elections, the code for booths
+and all that is probably hard code). But, if we've done our design right,
+most of a MMORPG design should be a matter of fiddling data.
+
+>     I'm pretty sure these databases would not be covered by the GPL.  All
+> that people could 'steal' would be your binaries. And that does not mean
+> they can carbon-coby your game.  Your rules, mapfiles, plot, etc. could all
+> be copywritten material.
+
+Not "could". Is. It's automatic and non-debatable. When you write it,
+it is automatically covered by copyright, and you have to explicitely
+put it in the public domain (which is not *that* easy). With the
+provision about plot; as I explained before, a plot cannot be
+copyrighted, while specifics are. You can't copyright "evil arch-villain
+wants to overthrow king", you can only copyright "Mezzo Kharkan wants
+to overthrow king Ariflax".
+
+(hmmm, if I have infringed some copyright here, it's purely unintentional,
+ and was only for purpose of citation. Honest)
+
+>     I think 'derivitive works' pertains to modifications of the Nel codebase
+
+In the GPL text, yes. Derivative works refer to code. GPL says exactly
+nothing about data, so it's not covered by the license.
+
+>     Say I downloaded the binaries for Everquest's client and server (imagine
+> they were GPLed). I still could not create an 'Everquest' game and put them
+> out of business, I would need to create an exact copy of all their media, I
+> would also have to mimic their ruleset, copy their maps, etc. And doing all
+> that would be illegal, since its all copywritten material.
+
+That's a good example. However (assuming Everquest code was GPL), once
+you'd produced a set of player and NPC models, and made a few zone files
+under a 3D modeller, and created your own items, you'd be able
+to launch Realquest.
+
+And try to put them out of business :)
+
+>     Where you're mistaken is that the GPL doesnt force you to distribute
+> _everything_  for free.  Just the material that is covered under the GPL,
+> which would be, the source code to the binaries... and the source to any
+> libraries used in conjunction with them.
+
+By FSF's own admission, the source of any library "not commonly available
+with the system". Otherwise, we'd have to provide the Nvidia OpenGL driver
+sources if we wanted to run our game on a Nvidia-equipped PC :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000236.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000236.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5572d772 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000236.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Building a FAQ? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Building a FAQ?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:00:00 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Jared Mark:
+> 1) Now that I have NeL, the Client, and Services packages all compiled,
+> what do I do with it to actually start building MY world?  Do I HAVE
+> to edit the code and recompile?  Or is this package meant to handle
+> all game-specific stuff in that /data directory, independant from the
+> core components?
+
+Well, what you now have is a very small client, so don't expect to run a
+RPG using that :)
+
+But essentially, yes. You now have to fire off your favorite 3D modeller
+and start making your own world (then, later get or write a converter to
+generate our map format), or, if you find the current world fine... start
+working on additional code to implement your features.
+
+> 2) What are the limitations on world size, max number of connections, etc, etc?  I understand there are obvious hardware restrictions that you can't really say anything about... but I'm talking about software restrictions (for example, will I run into problems with say, a bank account in my game going over 64k in size due to an overflow?  Will I have issues with my map being too big for the services to handle in terms of latteral area?)
+
+Basically? None. We haven't put any specific restriction. Bank accounts
+aren't implemented yet, so they don't overflow :)
+
+There are additional design decisions about the game I can't get into,
+but, regarding map size for example, we do not have any restriction.
+Apart from our capacity to produce them and the limitations on the
+support for distribution (if we have to install 10Gb on your HD, it's
+probably too much).
+
+As a comparison, the artic icefield distributed with Snowballs covers
+2.5km by 1.3, and we do expect to have a pair of PCs handle every services
+regarding such a game area and about 50-100 active players.
+
+(of course, that depends a LOT on how those services are sollicited, which
+ ties directly into game play)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cc8f396a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000237.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ x5101920@fedro.ugr.es + x5101920@fedro.ugr.es
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:38:51 +0100 +

+
+ +
+Jared Mark escribió:
+
+> I just want to make sure I understand this right... I use this source
+> code to build the base of my game...I do all sorts of work to make my
+> own game built around this core engine...I then try to get people to
+> play the game...
+>
+> #Sound easy, it is hard.
+>  People get the game (for free, or at least, for the cost of shipping
+> it, but no profit can be made on that...)
+>
+> #Fucking HTML messages!!!
+> #Ok, with GPL you can sell it and make money but you CAN'T forbid the
+> buyer to sell, copy, or hire it.
+>  I charge for the monthly service to the game, and make boat loads of
+> money...
+>
+> #And why people would pay for your service!?
+> #It isn't a easy thing But then, because of the way this license
+> reads, someone else can request the entire source code to my game, set
+> up their own game that's exactly like mine, and charge people to use
+> it just like I am doing... So if all of the above is correct... what
+> is the point of me making my game using NeL in the first place?  When
+> someone can just steal my entire game (not just the NeL source, but
+> all of the "derivitive works" that are packaged with it as a whole),
+> and run the game service themselves... basically, taking me out of the
+> loop entirely.
+>
+> #Well, the code is GPL, but the GFX, SFX, History, and so aren't GPL
+> so you can't copy them. ( isn't this true? )
+> #Someone don't steal but derive the work, if this happens you have two
+> options:
+> #a) Forgive your project and join then
+> #b) Use their modifications ( that are GPL ) to make yours better. If
+> I'm completely off here, I appologise.  I'm extremely new to the whole
+> "open source" thing...
+>
+> # Well, Open Source is like Fire for the Primitive mens. Someone scary
+> and others just get hot near it.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000239.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000239.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cb879fcb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000239.html @@ -0,0 +1,121 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Dave Turner + novalis@novalis.org
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:23:47 -0500 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> 
+> > Nope. But be aware that the basic principles of your game design are
+> > automatically open, regardless of whether you use NeL or develop your
+> > own from scratch. What is proprietary to you is the 1000-rows database
+> > that describes your items, the recipes your artisans use to make items,
+> > the names and settings of the world, the artwork used to decorate the
+> > flag flying at the top of the keep.
+> >
+> > But not the "there are three realms that are mortal ennemies of each
+> > other" part. That, anyone can copy. Even if you were developping a
+> > game for a big company under death-before-you-speak agreements.
+> 
+> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+> (because it's open source) and just "compile and run" my entire world.  I
+> don't care about the technology stuff, like those special gloves, or 3D
+> goggle implementation... I just want it so that if someone wants to copy
+> that skill tree of mine, they have to copy it from the ground up.  Not just
+> grab my source and say "Okay, it's mine now."  I'm not talking about
+> copyrights...
+> 
+> Look at it this way... I am copying some of the concepts from any number of
+> other MUDs, MMOLRPGs, and such... the concept of player housing is in Ultima
+> Online... I'm copying that, and making it better... What I'm not doing is
+> taking their source code for how they implemented it, and using it for my
+> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+> some of their own effort to make their "copy of my ideas" a reality.
+> 
+> > > *scratches head*
+> >
+> > /em massages Jared's shoulders.
+> 
+> Hehe, thanks. :)
+
+
+If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+there?  Remember that any improvements they make will go back to you
+(excluding the ASP loophole, but we're ignoring that).  Also, they will
+have to give you credit (you have the copyright on your parts).  So, why
+make them repeat the work?  Isn't that just a waste of their time? 
+Also, if they have to redo it, they won't have to release their stuff,
+so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+up, rather than really innovating.  
+
+I understand that you want your world to be unique - one way you can do
+this is by having a less free license on media.  This is what Nevrax is
+doing.  Another way is to not release your plots - after all, plot is
+what makes a game (or ought to).  Remember, nobody will play a game that
+is just like yours, but without your creativity.  
+
+You can make money on free software, even sticking with the GPL.  RMS
+did it for years, RedHat does it, Cygnus did it (now, RH owns them).  I
+suggest that you seriously consider the benefits of free software from a
+totally open mind - trying to think of it from a different point of view
+- not "How can I lock world up?", but "How can I make my players
+happier?"
+
+I think you'll find that even among proprietary games, the most open
+games had the best results - look at how customizable the Quake series
+is.
+
+Just my 2 cents.
+
+--
+-Dave Turner                                 Stalk me:  (215)-545-2859  
+----------------------------------------------------------------------
+"It is said that it is the curse of the neophobe to always see the 
+symptoms as the disease, and to always make half measures" - Pug
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5b1db9fa --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000240.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:28:01 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+> [... case of zone server failure ...]
+> Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+> will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+
+The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+which is supposed to take over.
+
+I'm still trying to get up to date with NeL design, so I dunno yet how the
+data are/will be stored.
+
+
+	Best regards,
+
+		Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000241.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000241.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3ee5ec68 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000241.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Dynamic load balancing? + + + + + + +

[Nel] Dynamic load balancing?

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:21:23 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Thierry Mallard:
+> On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 11:21:38AM -0300, Nahuel Greco wrote:
+> > [... case of zone server failure ...]
+> > Then, you has the map divided in zones,... if a geographic server dies, other
+> > will be taking the zone that belong to the died server? .. 
+> 
+> The problem here will be persistency (is that english ? ;-). All the data
+> currently in memory on server A, which is failing, will be lost for server B
+> which is supposed to take over.
+
+That's what you get with a purely geographic design, like EQ/UO design.
+When a zone fails, you get kicked out, everything you gained since your last
+save is lost, and when you return, every single critter has respawned. All
+state is lost, since all state was located in a single process.
+
+With a functional approach, all game entities are "holographic"
+regarding to storage. They're a kind of "cloud" of various agents located
+on various services. If a geographic server dies, you get suddendly
+a kind of fog for a while. Another service starts up, gets back information
+about what critters are where from the AI services, where all players are
+from the various player services, and what items are grown where from the
+ecology services. It takes a little time, but you recover more
+gracefully.
+
+The same occurs if an AI server dies. Those critters that were managed
+by that service freezes, but then another service takes them over. They
+will probably forget a lot of what they were doing, but they don't "depop",
+since the geography service knows that there's that kind of beast
+that was located there.
+
+Of course there are services that are more critical than other. If a login
+service dies, all players using it are kicked out forcefully. If the
+item manager dies, your inventory locks up completely (but you still look
+like yourself, can move around, and talk).
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6b015e9b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000242.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Nel] maybe bug + + + + + + +

[Nel] maybe bug

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:37:46 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am wrong.
+
+file moves.cpp=20
+     auto_ptr<CConfigFile> cf2( new CConfigFile() );
+    auto_ptr<CConfigFile> cf( new CConfigFile() );
+seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content when leave local =
+stack.
+but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this will cause bad =
+thing .
+did it ?
+
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>first I am a newbies for c++,so maybe I am =
+wrong.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>file moves.cpp </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; =
+cf2( new=20
+CConfigFile() );</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; auto_ptr&lt;CConfigFile&gt; cf( =
+new=20
+CConfigFile() );<BR>seem to wrong, becuase auto_ptr will delete content =
+when=20
+leave local stack.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>but ccconfigfile store it to vector container , this =
+will=20
+cause bad thing .</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>did it ?</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C09C35.623341E0--
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000243.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000243.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..06ff9c18 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000243.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ + + + + [Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Something I don't understand about the license agreement.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:26:14 +0100 +

+
+ +
EagleEye wrote:
+> This basically answers my question.  You see, I realize that people can copy
+> my ideas, but I'll be damned if they're gonna copy the work that I put into
+> it to accomplish what I (will have) accomplished.  If they want to copy my
+> idea, they'll have to implement it themselves, not grab all of my WORK
+> (because it's open source) and just "compile and run" my entire world.  I
+...
+> own game... that stuff I have to do myself.  I don't care if people copy my
+> ideas, but I want to release them first, and I want them to have to put in
+> some of their own effort to make their "copy of my ideas" a reality.
+
+One important thing to know is, until you have released something, you are
+under no obligation to put any source available. The GPL doesn't prevent
+you from doing anything privately. It just says, "once other people run it,
+you have to share the source". So do not worry about not being the first.
+
+There's also a fact that, even if you release your server code, without
+the data it holds, it's worthless. You speak of plot, of situations,
+of recipes for game dynamics. All this (reread my message) isn't code.
+It's data. You might have a few specific bits here and there of code,
+but it's chiefly scripts that say how mobs react, items, events and code
+tables, and all that.
+
+To take another analogy: You are now mandated to release your network
+MP3 player source. You are not mandated to release any of the MP3 you
+composed.
+
+That ties into another typical false belief about modern game design.
+Code isn't what makes your game. Data is. A typical game development
+team often features twice, or three times as many artists, level
+designers, and game designers as pure coders. All that data production
+isn't in the GPL. Apart from the level proper (i.e. art), none of it
+never ever needs to appear on any site. And that's what makes the game.
+
+According to Dave Turner:
+> If someone is going to implement the same ideas, why should they waste
+> their time implementing them from scratch if your code is already
+
+Hmm, that's not reassuring the guy who's just said he did NOT want
+somebody doing that :)
+
+> so you won't get the benefit of their code.  Also, they could well end
+> up being less inventive, because they have to spend time just catching
+> up, rather than really innovating.  
+
+That's the real clincher, of course. If all they are doing is taking
+your game, and running it under their name, then:
+
+1) They're going to be second on the market
+2) They're going to be late in coming, because they WILL have to spend a
+   lot of time redoing your internal game data
+
+If this is a commercial endeavour, the only way they can expect to
+attract customers is if they do it a lot cheaper than you do.
+
+That's where the real fun begins. People have to realise the difference
+in paradigm between making, say, a Starcraft, and making a Shadowbane.
+Running an on-line game isn't a software industry, it's a SERVICE
+industry. The main costs isn't creating the game, it's dwarfed by
+the cost of running it. A classic game costs $40 to buy. An on-line
+game typically costs $150 if you play it for a year. Do you think
+this means you've made $100 profits on the game? No. What this means
+is that you've invested $100 in the game, the distributor got paid $20,
+and got $30 profit, instead of investing $10, giving $20 in distribution
+cost and getting $10 profit.
+
+Those $100 invested are about $25 in game dev (heavier than classic games)
+and $75 in infrastructure (server, bandwidth, customer service).
+
+(that's simplistic, but it's relatively representative of what's behind
+ an online game)
+
+Your competitor will reduce its investment, but the infrastructure costs
+remain not only identical, but the MAIN factor in costs. Forcing your
+competitor to maintain its price close to yours.
+
+In other words, stealing your game to run a competiting business isn't
+a major problem. And if it becomes one, you have legal recourse against
+them. After all, they copied your copyrighted works (the game data).
+Why go to the investment of making a massive world, if you open yourself
+to lawsuit.
+
+And anyway, if you want to make an immense effort designing everything
+by yourself, your counterfactor will still gain a lot of time, because
+*he* will use NeL to catch up on code quickly :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..44b367cf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000244.html @@ -0,0 +1,47 @@ + + + + [Nel] System specs + + + + + + +

[Nel] System specs

+ Charles Dupont + duponc@rpi.edu
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:39:39 -0500 +

+
+ +
How much
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..adb9f60c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000245.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] System specs + + + + + + +

[Nel] System specs

+ Charles Dupont + duponc@rpi.edu
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:45:07 -0500 +

+
+ +
Charles Dupont wrote:
+
+> How much
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+> 
+> 
+Sorry hit the send button acidentaly.  On to the question.
+
+How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+when your service is up and running?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..33340577 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000246.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:17:10 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+While compiling the client workspace, I get an error at the end.  I'm a =
+Java programmer just looking into Nel and am very impressed.  If someone =
+could just shed some light on how to resolve this error:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other =
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol =
+_psaux_module_class
+Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>While compiling the client workspace, I =
+get an=20
+error at the end.&nbsp; I'm a Java programmer just looking into Nel and =
+am very=20
+impressed.&nbsp; If someone could just shed some light on how to resolve =
+this=20
+error:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib =
+"LIBCMT"=20
+conflicts with use of other libs; use=20
+/NODEFAULTLIB:library<BR>freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: =
+unresolved=20
+external symbol _psaux_module_class<BR>Release/snowballs.exe : fatal =
+error=20
+LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C09C3A.E3BB40F0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c8c2f8ee --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000247.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Nel] maybe bug + + + + + + +

[Nel] maybe bug

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:46:36 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I have do follow modify to time_service.cpp
+so it will not crash=20
+ /* CConfigFile cf;
+  cf.load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &v =3D cf.getVar ("UniTime");
+  modify by  jaleco
+  */
+       CConfigFile *cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;
+  cf->load (ConfigFileName);
+  const CConfigFile::CVar &v =3D cf->getVar ("UniTime");
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have do follow modify to =
+time_service.cpp</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>so it will not crash </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;/*&nbsp;CConfigFile cf;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;cf.load =
+
+(ConfigFileName);</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D =
+cf.getVar=20
+("UniTime");<BR>&nbsp; modify by=20
+&nbsp;jaleco<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;*/<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
+sp;CConfigFile=20
+*cf =3D new CConfigFile() ;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;cf-&gt;load=20
+(ConfigFileName);<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;const CConfigFile::CVar &amp;v =3D =
+cf-&gt;getVar=20
+("UniTime");</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CC5.1C921540--
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dd712e63 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000248.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Nel] agent service + + + + + + +

[Nel] agent service

+ jaleco + jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:33:47 +0800 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+how to get python15_d.dll
+since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>how to get python15_d.dll</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>since I have download from <A=20
+href=3D"http://www.python.org">www.python.org</A> but it don't have =
+debug=20
+version.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT size=3D2>where to find it ?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C09CF5.9C8BC4A0--
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..647a8f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000249.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ + + + + [Nel] agent service + + + + + + +

[Nel] agent service

+ sameh chafik Pro + chafik@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:55:07 +0100 +

+
+ +
C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Well it do'nt exist!
+I you are passion you can compile&link it else change the reference =
+library in the config.h.
+
+For that open the config.h in the include python directory and change =
+the:
+
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib")=20
+
+on
+
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16.lib")
+
+That all.
+
+I use the python 1.6 and in my config i have the #pragma =
+comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") at line 220.
+  ----- Original Message -----=20
+  From: jaleco=20
+  To: nel@nevrax.org=20
+  Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:33 AM
+  Subject: [Nel] agent service
+
+
+  how to get python15_d.dll
+  since I have download from www.python.org but it don't have debug =
+version.
+  where to find it ?
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="big5"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dbig5">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well it do'nt exist!</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I you are passion you can =
+compile&amp;link=20
+it&nbsp;else change the reference library in the config.h.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For that open the config.h in the =
+include python=20
+directory and </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>change =
+the:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>on</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>#pragma =
+comment(lib,"python16.lib")</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That all.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I use the python 1.6 and in my config i =
+have the=20
+#pragma comment(lib,"python16_d.lib") at line 220.</FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
+style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
+BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
+  <DIV=20
+  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
+black"><B>From:</B>=20
+  <A title=3Djaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw=20
+  href=3D"mailto:jaleco@svr1.gameone.com.tw">jaleco</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dnel@nevrax.org=20
+  href=3D"mailto:nel@nevrax.org">nel@nevrax.org</A> </DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 22, =
+2001 10:33=20
+  AM</DIV>
+  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Nel] agent =
+service</DIV>
+  <DIV><BR></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>how to get python15_d.dll</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>since I have download from <A=20
+  href=3D"http://www.python.org">www.python.org</A> but it don't have =
+debug=20
+  version.</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>where to find it =
+?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_01E5_01C09CBD.EB74B460--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e44b6352 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000250.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:00:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
> LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _psaux_module_class
+> Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+
+Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+
+Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+
+
+Sorry about that,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9ca5ce89 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000251.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] System specs + + + + + + +

[Nel] System specs

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:56:34 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Charles Dupont:
+> How much band width do you think you will need for your server cluster 
+> when your service is up and running?
+
+About an OC12 (655Mbits) per user.
+
+Ooops, sorry, was thinking about the pan-sensorial version with direct
+neural feed for complete immersion :)
+
+By design, we want to restrict the bandwidth to at most what a user with
+a 57.6K modem can 'swallow' realistically, which means a bandwidth
+of compressed data that tops at around 4Kbytes/s (or 32Kbits/s).
+
+Multiply by the number of simultaneous people a cluster has to serve,
+which we aim at around 3000-3500 players, and you get a little under
+an OC4 per cluster (about 110Mbits) for theoretical peak usage.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a3922258 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000252.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Olivier Cado + cado@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:41:12 +0100 +

+
+ +
We are very pleased that you are interested by NeL and our project.
+Thanks to free software, we are now working in cooperation with the
+community. So let's discuss some network issues.
+
+Here is the purpose of this message:
+- Present the future of the NeL Network Engine
+- Ask for your input on a couple of points
+
+At present, the Nel Network Engine is single-threaded. We plan to
+rewrite the engine using multi-threading. The library will be made up of
+five layers:
+- Layer 0: socket wrapper (roughly, present CBaseSocket + listening
+socket functionalities)
+- Layer 1: multiple socket multi-threaded I/O mechanism
+- Layer 2: adapted to CMemStream (allows serialization)
+- Layer 3: adapted to CMessage (contains type information)
+- Layer 4: using callbacks (as presently used in the services and
+provided by CMsgSocket)
+
+The main features of Layer 1 are as follows:
+
+External view:
+The user programmer will be able to send data (A), to check if some data
+has been received (B), and if so to get a data block from the receive
+queue.
+
+Implementation:
+(A) When the user requests to send data, his data block is put into a
+send queue. The actual sending is triggered off by a time flush trigger,
+a size flush trigger or an explicit flush trigger (at the user's
+demand). Let's say the queue control is executed in the main thread, in
+an update() method, called evenly.
+(B) Each connection is handled by a separate thread that sleeps while
+not receiving data so that no CPU time will be used if nothing is
+received on a particular socket. When incoming data is actually
+received, it is put into a global receive queue (synchronized with a
+mutex of course) and popped when the user requests to receive a block.
+
+This implementation still raises a few questions:
+(A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+(B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+
+I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+an idea about this issues.
+
+Thanks.
+Olivier Cado
+--
+http://www.nevrax.org
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d030b948 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000253.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:01:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+question it will be cool :))
+
+> (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+> a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+> the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+> know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+> optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+> 
+> I'm sure a lot of you are great Linux specialists, so you probably have
+> an idea about this issues.
+> 
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6f66a6e9 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000254.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Ludovic LIEVRE + ludovic.lievre@chaman.net
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:14:50 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi all,
+
+We also build a MM game.
+
+Our servers now run on NT and Linux and will soon be ported to Solaris.
+
+I've read that with LinuxThreads, after 100 threads the performances of the
+system downgrade.
+
+Another question about network engine: will your messages all be TCP or UDP
+? If UDP is used will you add a mechanism that make UDP reliable ?
+In the first stages of our game, TCP was used. We made some test and we saw
+a terrific ping (due to ACK mechanism) time even on our LAN (200ms). So we
+decide to use UDP instead...
+
+
+> -----Message d'origine-----
+> De : nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]De la part de
+> Nicolas Hognon
+> Envoye : jeudi 22 fevrier 2001 17:02
+> A : nel@nevrax.org
+> Objet : Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+>
+>
+>
+> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+>
+> i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+> question it will be cool :))
+>
+> > (B) As we are building a *massively* multiplayer game, we expect to have
+> > a great number of connections (even if all clients won't be connected on
+> > the same machine), therefore a great number of threads. Does anybody
+> > know the scale limits on Linux systems (and on Windows BTW), i.e. the
+> > optimum and maximum thread numbers per process and per system ?
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fcf22c77 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000255.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:29:39 -0500 +

+
+ +
I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+I get some more error messages:
+
+LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decrypt
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Parse_Charstrings
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Done
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Decoder_Init
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Close_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Start_Point
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Contour
+freetype.lib(psauxmod.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_T1_Builder_Add_Point1
+etc.......
+
+I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+
+Thanks for your help,
+
+Jay
+
+> > LINK : warning LNK4098: defaultlib "LIBCMT" conflicts with use of other
+libs; use /NODEFAULTLIB:library
+> > freetype.lib(ftinit.obj) : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol
+_psaux_module_class
+> > Release/snowballs.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals
+>
+> Yous should put the psauxmod.c files in freetype the freetype project.
+>
+> Jérome Lanquetot and Julien Hognon already post somthin about that and i
+> should have updated the INSTALL file for a long time ago.
+>
+>
+> Sorry about that,
+>
+> Cedric.
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2be37a93 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000256.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:53:43 +0100 +

+
+ +
Although  this  site  http://www.linuxraid.org/ isn't directly related
+to  NEL, it has a great number of tips and tricks on how to make Linux a little bit
+stable  and  how to expand Linux system resources (see the bottom of their page).
+
+Thursday, February 22, 2001, 5:01:57 PM, you wrote:
+
+
+NH> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+NH> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+
+NH> i haven't made test about this yet ... but if some one answer to this
+NH> question it will be cool :))
+
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..be693e65 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000257.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 18:46:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> I did that, and freetype compiled nicely, but now when i compile the client
+> I get some more error messages:
+>
+> [...]
+> 
+> I really don't know c++ well so I can't figure out what is causing this
+
+This is caused because some FreeType modules that we are using are not
+inlcuded in your FreeType compilation.
+
+We, Nevrax, are using GNU make to compil Freetype, and that compilation
+method include everything by default.
+
+As you are using an IDE to compil it you have to put the base components
+and, eventualy, some optional components.
+
+In your specific case the psaux module need the t1types and psnames modules.
+
+As NeL is a "work in progress" and that we migth add new features to
+font_generator, my advice is to compile *all* the optionals modules,
+all the C files listed at the end of the INSTALL file, in your FreeType
+compilation and installation process ... :-)
+
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d7c2e8d7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000258.html @@ -0,0 +1,49 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:15:56 -0500 +

+
+ +
Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+
+-Jay
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..356d69b5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000259.html @@ -0,0 +1,49 @@ + + + + [Nel] Link error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Link error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:37:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> Worked like a charm. Thanks a lot Cedric.
+
+That's nothing :-)
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f34d4377 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000260.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:19:15 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it and got this error one I entered =
+the world
+"The instruction at "0x77fca615"referenced memory at "0x7c80fff7". The =
+memory could not be "read"
+
+I'm running windows 2000 and I get that message in both fullscreen and =
+in windowed modes.
+
+Not sure if this is a bug or what.
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After compiling Snowballs.exe, I ran it =
+and got=20
+this error one&nbsp;I entered the world</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"The instruction at =
+"0x77fca615"referenced memory=20
+at "0x7c80fff7". The memory could not be "read"</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm running windows 2000 and I get that =
+message in=20
+both fullscreen and in windowed modes.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not sure if this is a bug or =
+what.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C09CDA.6FB72110--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ec907ee0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000261.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:44:25 +0100 +

+
+ +
> "The instruction at "0x77fca615"referenced memory at "0x7c80fff7". The 
+> memory could not be "read"
+
+i'm not sure the guys from nevrax can do someting with this kind
+of informations :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9b1edca2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000262.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:03:33 -0800 +

+
+ +
In my experience with the engine these errors occur when a content file
+(mostly shape files) is missing.
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..863c4810 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000263.html @@ -0,0 +1,102 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:12:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
> (A) If no buffer space is available within the transport system to hold
+> the data to be transmitted, the actual sending will block. Has anybody
+> come across this case ? When does this happen in practice ?
+
+i'm not sure that i understand this part of your mail and i hope you'll
+understand my answer because i'm not sure my english enough fluent :))
+
+you're asking want happened if you call send or write on a socket
+and there is not enough space in the tcp stack / transport layer buffer.
+it depends you've got blocking or non blocking socket.
+if it's a blocking socket you're thread will be blocked
+until you're data can be send by the tcp stack.
+if you're socket is in non blocking mode send/write
+will return you an error an errno will be EWOULDBLOCK
+or WSAEWOULDBLOCK under winsock.
+
+but i'm not sure it's the answer to your question
+because it is not a very huge problem.
+i make the same mistake because when you make
+some little test it's more common that receive failed
+with a wouldblock than send. when i began
+writting our network api (for the company i work)
+i made this mistake. but when i made
+some test with huge network messages and a poor modem
+i encounter tihs problem.
+
+i hope this help you
+but can you answer me that i know if i understand
+your problem :))
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..319c5329 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000264.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Jason Dominiczak + jdominiczak@home.com
+ Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:25:06 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only =
+happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot =
+and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try =
+to look around, it gives me that error.
+
+I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+
+-Jay
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've been trying to figure out were =
+this is coming=20
+from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can =
+stay in=20
+one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the =
+second i=20
+try to look around, it gives me that error.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I hope this sheds some more light on =
+the reason for=20
+this,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Jay</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C09D1E.4F2EF0F0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aadb8ea8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000265.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions

+ Brandon Barker + bebarker@meginc.com
+ Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:20:42 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hello I have 2 questions.
+
+1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+Mesa.  What should I do.
+
+2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+anyone can get it ... for free.  
+
+Thanks,
+Brandon Barker
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4692ffe1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000266.html @@ -0,0 +1,133 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:29:01 +0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Guys,
+    Well, i finally managed to get the sample snowballs client and
+    server up and running, though it required quite a few code hacks
+    on my part. (Damn my wacky machine config). Oh yeah, this is all
+    for the linux code as well.. my machine is basically debian woody
+    (though various gnome/wine/sawfish things are latest releases
+    compiled from source)
+
+    Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+    than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+    with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+    be causing them, please do. 
+    In case anyone else has similar problems, things I got were:
+        time_service was exiting: temporarily fixed by removing the
+          call of _Callback() in checkConfigFiles() method of 
+          code/nel/src/misc/config_file/config_file.cpp. I haven't
+          managed to work out where it's being set, or why the value
+          isn't correct yet.
+          I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+          client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+          of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+          doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+        moves_service - suspect it had the same problem as above, it
+          _was_ segfaulting, but went away after the above hack.
+        the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+          being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+          it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+          code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+          texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+          the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+          out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+          late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+          and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+
+    As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+    some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+    the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+    background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+    since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+    shoving an '&' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+    (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+    etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+    Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+
+    Oh well, after all that, the client runs at about 5fps ;) Guess
+    I should spend some time seeing if I can get it faster eh?
+    Can anyone give me some benchmarkish figures for framerate 
+    under window~1? For a P3-550 with Geforce(1) would be best ;)
+    Then I can have a base to work from.
+
+    Anyhow, nice work guys. The framework (which I've forcibly had
+    to poke) seems pretty decent (I'm reserving judgement for further
+    praise until I've had more experience with it ;)). Having spent
+    some time working on one of these, I know just how much work it
+    is to get anything this complex working. 
+
+    
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..78631f34 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000267.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:53:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Brandon,
+
+Brandon Barker wrote:
+> 
+> 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+> with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+> Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+> Mesa.  What should I do.
+
+That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+this file ?
+
+If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+
+   http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+
+> 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+> compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+> anyone can get it ... for free.  
+
+We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..75bb0fde --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000268.html @@ -0,0 +1,114 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions and something else + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions and something else

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:12:28 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 03:53:18PM +0100, Valignat Cedric wrote:
+> 
+> Hello Brandon,
+> 
+> Brandon Barker wrote:
+> > 
+> > 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine 
+> > with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with ATI 
+> > Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and suggest I get 
+> > Mesa.  What should I do.
+> 
+> That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+> this file ?
+> 
+> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+> 
+>    http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+
+> > 2) Is it possible to compile in Windows with Cygwin?  Cygwin would be a good 
+> > compiler of choice for the windows platform because it is Free Software and 
+> > anyone can get it ... for free.  
+> 
+> We didn't try to compil it on Cygwin *yet*, i will try to do it
+> during the next week, but you are welcome to give it a try and give
+> us some feed back ... that will be nice ;-)
+
+*shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+Cygwin can be..... painful.
+
+On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+_almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+(Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+out patches?)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..03791eb4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000269.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] Memory error + + + + + + +

[Nel] Memory error

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:15:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Jason,
+
+Jason Dominiczak wrote:
+> I've been trying to figure out were this is coming from but it only happens when i move the mouse when in the world. I can stay in one spot and launch snowballs and talk for as long as i want but the second i try to look around, it gives me that error.
+> 
+> I hope this sheds some more light on the reason for this,
+
+I'm sorry but no so much :-(
+
+Could you give us more informations about your config and eventually try
+to compil it on a debug mode and send us the output lines that you will
+get on the console ...
+
+
+Thanks,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..94d69317 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000270.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Bret Guillet + destine@scholar.org
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:42:42 -0600 +

+
+ +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
+Hash: SHA1
+
+I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+and
+get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+others who have similar capabilities.
+
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
+Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.2 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
+
+iQA/AwUBOpp5ciQJr2c1l90oEQJtTwCfZPelcwnmgEGChRw9Lt+pl1gMQD4AoNDj
+lbd6OC/J1zIG26gezJHZzawa
+=HSCR
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..09b641f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000271.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some screen shots + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some screen shots

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:32:42 +0100 +

+
+ +
I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+
+  
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e31e97bf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000272.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Bernard Hugueney + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:49:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
* Nicolas Hognon <cblt@cblt.org> [010222 19:33]:
+>
+> i've got the same problem for the project i work for  :
+> how many thread can i run under win nt/2000 and linux
+>
+
+Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+On a pessimistic note, I remember seeing in kernel traffic that Solaris
+was more effective in handling huge number of threads :-(
+Not only that, but Linus T. seemed not to recognize a defect is Linux,
+but claimed that it was a matter of trade-off and that Solaris was
+optimized for huge number of threads, and Linux more effective with
+small number of threads.
+
+But my memory is weak so I may be wrong...
+
+On a completly unrelated note, I remember seeing a NeL coder seeking assistance
+on a gcc mailing list for a trouble with exception causing an abort when
+linking with C code (I think). I do not remember if there was a useful response
+, but I saw a related message on boost mailing list:
+<citation>
+Hi,
+I finally figured out why the regex++ shared library was crashing when
+throwing an exception.  Somehow the shared library wasn't getting
+created correctly by using ld to link it.  When using ld with c++ code,
+some additional libraries need to be specified on the command line.  The
+easy fix is to simply call g++ to link the files.  g++ then calls ld
+with the appropriate commands.
+</citation>
+
+Maybe this can help...
+
+Cheers,
+Bernard
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0d7d1690 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000273.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some screen shots + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some screen shots

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:54:29 +0100 +

+
+ +
Yes, screenshot already took. we just wait a validation from the co-fonder
+to put them on the site.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Dim Segebart" <zager@teleaction.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 5:32 PM
+Subject: [Nel] Some screen shots
+
+
+> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org
+will be a
+> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+>
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                        mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fec4710b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000274.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions and something else + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions and something else

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:18:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Leighton Haynes:
+> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+
+If you know how autoconfig works, it's usually almost trivial.
+
+> (Oh, and do we have an established preference for how we'd like
+> out patches?)
+
+Basically, for smallish patches (two-three liners), you may submit them
+here if you want.
+
+However, since not everyone is interested in seeing patches, at least
+until they are commited on the CVS, you may also submit them directly
+to code@nevrax.org, which, I think, is mentioned somewhere on the web
+site. That applies to larger patches as well; I don't think people
+appreciate seeing a 1000-line diff file landing in the mailing list :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9935d1a8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000275.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:22:56 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Bret Guillet:
+> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> and
+> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> others who have similar capabilities.
+
+It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ccc552e0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000276.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Nel] Some screen shots + + + + + + +

[Nel] Some screen shots

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:24:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Dim Segebart:
+> I  think  adding some screen shots of client with SnowBalls  to nevrax.org will be a
+> plus, since IMHO it'll help to get some new testers.
+
+We had a little internal vote about which of the many screenshots
+we took would look the best. Final validation pending now, but since
+we don't have any unspeakable acts perpetrated by the gnus on the
+hapless penguins, I don't think it will take long.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a3f50185 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000277.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Nel] 2 questions and something else + + + + + + +

[Nel] 2 questions and something else

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:02:44 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> 
+> ie, the configure script checks that your GL_GLEXT_VERSION is greater
+> than or equal to 7. If your glext.h is earlier than this, it
+> will give you the message about not having opengl (the configure script
+> should probably be changed to a less misleading message).
+
+Fixed, sorry about that ...
+
+It will be on the public CVS tonigth.
+
+
+> *shudder* Trying to get stuff which uses windows APIs to compile under
+> Cygwin can be..... painful.
+
+I never tried yet, migth be interesting :-)
+
+
+> On a completely unrelated point, I have fullscreen client under X11
+> _almost_ working (just have to get it to grab the mouse properly now).
+> One thing that did occur to me is that it used the XF86VidMode
+> extension, so presumably this should be added to the configure
+> script. Anyone wanna give me a pointer on how to do it? :)
+
+You can check the GNU website's documentation :
+
+   http://www.gnu.org/manual/autoconf-2.13/autoconf.html
+   http://www.gnu.org/manual/automake-1.4/automake.html
+
+And there is an online book, on RedHat's website, about Automake, Autoconf,
+and Libtool which is a quite good introduction to all this "stuff" :
+
+   http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html
+
+Contact me if i can help ...
+
+Have fun ;-)
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..551c2232 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000278.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:50:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> 
+> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+Threads are indeed system tasks internaly, and they are scheduled as such.
+The number of tasks and/or threads is only limited by NR_TASKS at compile
+time in Linux. And yes, the scheduler is not really effective at managing
+more than 1000~2000 tasks, and doesn't provide enough semantics to
+optimize thread use. This is rather a matter of design, and you could
+without great trouble design a Linux scheduler that handles a bunch of
+threads the way you expect it, but as far as I known, only the real time
+versions of Linux (such as RTlinux) have played with this part of the
+Linux code. Now about SMP, Linux does spreads threads over the available
+CPUs to optimize parallelism, but there's no limitation. And you'll only
+get a speed up on SMP machines if you really have parallel threads (ie.
+not a thread join every 10 lines !).
+
+I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing', sounds
+cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads everywhere : BeOS
+is a good example since everything than can receive events is in a thread.
+You can do it all by yourself : use one process and dispatch the incoming
+events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you would use one more than the other
+is a matter of design, and also depends on the type of application and the
+OS you use. The anwser is really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail,
+but I must admit I don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3a7d9e44 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000279.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Dim Segebart + zager@teleaction.com
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:11 +0100 +

+
+ +
I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+Look at it by the URL http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html
+Project home page is http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+
+
+-- 
+Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d99dd3a6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000280.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Ian Holsman + nevrax@holsman.net
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:15 -0800 +

+
+ +
On 26 Feb 2001, you wrote in games.nevrax:
+
+ >Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+ >
+ >I guess we're raising the question of time sharing (or 'multiplexing',
+ >sounds cool :)). You can let the OS do it for you and use threads
+ >everywhere : BeOS is a good example since everything than can receive
+ >events is in a thread. You can do it all by yourself : use one process
+ >and dispatch the incoming events to functions (ie. WinProc). Why you
+ >would use one more than the other is a matter of design, and also
+ >depends on the type of application and the OS you use. The anwser is
+ >really not simple and won't certainly fit in a mail, but I must admit I
+ >don't have good pointers to give ...
+
+for discussions on different threading models you really should be 
+looking at, and drill down to the documents/technical papers.
+you probably don't want to maintain a thread per connected user, but
+have some kind of 'state' information which can be refered to by the 
+incoming request.
+
+
+http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE.html
+
+..Ian
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6d7e7630 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000281.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:59:11 -0800 +

+
+ +
> I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> and
+> get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> others who have similar capabilities.
+I'm running an athlon 700 with a geforce2 gts and get 15-30 fps (depending
+on scene complexity) with cvs from a couple days ago (and some modifications
+we're making which should only make it slower)  The speed hardly even goes
+down when I crank the resolution up to 1280x1024 which indicates to me that
+we are currently cpu limited.  You might also try commenting nlinfo() lines
+out if u really want a few more fps, but just judging by the speed
+improvements since snowballs .1 I'm not worried about future performance:)
+
+michael warnock
+in-orbit entertainment inc.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9bd1e786 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000282.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S' + + + + + + +

[Nel] Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century: + Cyberspace in the 21st Century : Scalability With a Big 'S'

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:11:48 +0100 +

+
+ +
here is an article about massive multiplayer game on gamasutra
+i don't read it yeat.
+
+http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010226/fitch_01.htm
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..185932b2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000283.html @@ -0,0 +1,89 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:18:00 +0800 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 06:22:56PM +0100, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> According to Bret Guillet:
+> > I'm running windows with one of the geforce cards and an Athlon 500
+> > and
+> > get roughly between 12 and 14 fps. And that seems to be inline with
+> > others who have similar capabilities.
+> 
+> It is heavily dependent on what settings you use for the calculation
+> of patches into polygons, since this (in the current generation of cards
+> anyway), is done chiefly in software.
+How does one change these settings?
+
+Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+implemented yet.
+
+One thing that would be nice for those of us not in Nevrax would
+be a roadmap showing featureset planned and whos working on them 
+(and when). This would allow people out here to grab a feature they
+felt like implementing, and have a go at it, without running into 
+situations where someone else has already done it.
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..76080c00 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000284.html @@ -0,0 +1,125 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:08:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
I already sent a mail in this list about how to increase the fps in
+snowball.
+(vincent archer, you should put this in the FAQ ;-)
+
+---------------------
+
+Yes, snowballs is slow because it s a prototype for a futur game.
+There s no optimisation and our game is planning to work with next computer
+generation.
+
+Anyway, you can increase the frame rate with changing the default value of
+the tesselation of the landscape and others variables.
+In the client.cfg, you have 2 variables:
+
+LandscapeTileNear = 50.000000;
+LandscapeThreshold = 0.001000;
+
+The first one is the distance, in meter, of the near algorithm, if you
+decrease the
+value (putting 10 for example) should increase the framerate.
+The second variable is the threshold of the tesselation of the landscape,
+you can
+increase the value to increase the frame rate (try 0.01 or 0.1 for example).
+of course,
+if you do that, there will be less details on the landscape.
+You can modify these 2 variables in realtime using chat commands. You just
+have to
+write:
+/setthre 0.1
+to set the LandscapeThreshold to 0.1
+/settilenear 10
+to set the LandscapeTileNear to 10
+when you change variables in realtime in the game, they are automaticaly
+store in the
+client.cfg so you don t have to do it again on next launch.
+
+With this, you can increase the framerate from 10 to 30 fps on a fast
+computer.
+
+On our computer, the frame rate is around 10-15fps with default value and we
+have:
+Athlon 750Mhz, 256Mb RAM, GeForce256 32Mb RAM.
+
+Another thing you have to know is that we use lot of processor time.
+If we change only the processor and put an Athlan 1Ghz, the framerate
+increase
+to 20fps. But if you put a GeForce2GTS, you ll see no difference in the
+frame rate.
+
+The fill rate of the 3d card isn't use a lot, you can try to put the
+resolution
+to 320*240 or 1600*1200 and you ll see that the framerate doesn t change a
+lot.
+
+Anyway, we know that snowballs is slow :-/
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3f6cbc09 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000285.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:00:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Leighton Haynes:
+>     Most of my 'fixes' aren't really, they address the symptoms rather
+>     than the cause, though I don't think I've broken anything major 
+>     with them ;) If anyone wants to give me some hints on what could
+>     be causing them, please do. 
+
+Well, we don't have hints, because, as you may surmise, these do not
+occur here.
+
+>           I gather the point of the Callback function is so that the 
+>           client which has loaded the Config file can become aware 
+>           of any changes to the parameters in the file, the time_service
+>           doesn't appear to set any callbacks for this though. *shrug*
+
+That's exactly what it's supposed to be, yes. So, either the callbacks
+are set incorrectly, or they are called while they should not be.
+
+>         the client was exiting with a message in the logfile about 
+>           being unable to load file "data/". Managed to eventually track
+>           it down to some of the texture loading code in 
+>           code/nel/src/3d/landscape.cpp. The loading of the diffuse
+>           texturemap doesn't do a check for textName == "" though
+>           the loading of the alpha texture map does. Haven't worked 
+>           out yet why it's decided that the textName is "" (it's too
+>           late ;)). I modified the code to do a test for textName == ""
+>           and made it default to loading the CTextureCross texture.
+
+That's the strange part. It should not be loading an empty file name
+at all. I suppose the check doesn't hurt either, so we'll look at
+integrating it in future commits.
+
+>     As some other comments - processes are defaulting under linux to
+>     some (IMHO) really ugly behaviour of 'fork'ing another process,
+>     the sole purpose of this appears to be to let them run in the 
+>     background. I don't see any really good reason for doing this,
+
+Well, there is one. Basically, if you look at these processes, you'll
+see they first do a set of initialisations, then fork. The whole
+fork-and-exit sequence is used to guarantee that service N+1 isn't
+started before service N has at least performed the minimum required
+initialisations.
+
+>     since it can be quite easily achieved by 'nohup'ing it and 
+>     shoving an '&' on the end of the line. Am I missing something?
+
+You could too, but you'd have to slide in a "reasonable" sleep N in
+the shell startup script. With reasonable varying a lot.
+
+>     (It makes it a bugger to debug, I can't run 'strace' on them effectively
+>     etc etc. Obviously, i just commented the code out of my version ;)
+>     Perhaps a commandline switch would be more appropriate?)
+
+That'll be added, yes.
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d09538e7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000286.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs

+ Brandon Barker + bebarker@meginc.com
+ Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:44:30 -0500 +

+
+ +
> > 1) I'm trying to compile NeL 2.0 (packaged with Snowballs 2) on a machine
+> > with Utah-GLX (its an accelerated version of Mesa 3.2 and will work with
+> > ATI Rage and others), but configure tells me I have no opengl, and
+> > suggest I get Mesa.  What should I do.
+>
+> That migth come from the file <GL/glext.h>, could you check that you have
+> this file ?
+>
+> If it's missing, you will be able to download it from :
+>
+>    http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h
+
+
+Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3c5af0ee --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000287.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Thierry Mallard + thierry@mallard.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:31:06 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> [ Linux and threads ]
+> Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user 
+> threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+
+In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+/proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+
+But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default kernel
+can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+look deeper into this...
+
+
+	Shaman
+
+-- 
+Thierry Mallard              |              
+GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+key 0xA3D021CB               |
+http://thierry.mallard.com   |     
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..457beb3e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000288.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Nel] Getting NeL up and running. + + + + + + +

[Nel] Getting NeL up and running.

+ Lionel Berenguier + berenguier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:34:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: Leighton Haynes <dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 3:18 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Getting NeL up and running.
+
+
+>
+> Also, i read somewhere that you're going to use ROAM? I take it this isn't
+> implemented yet.
+>
+
+We use a ROAM-like algorithm. See class CLandscape for more details. It is
+based on bezier patchs, not on heightmap, so it is slighty different from
+ROAM (as example, you can't deduce tesselation neighborhood from topology (a
+patch graph is not as simple as a heightmap :) )). There is lot of features
+(from Tiles, to distance based geomoprh) which make it different from the
+original ROAM document.
+
+Actually, I tink the only thing copied from ROAM is the triangle split/merge
+scheme.
+
+
+Lionel.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cdd60872 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000289.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:07:19 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+In fact, we don't want to know the theorical limit. we know that we can
+change this value in the kernel sources and recompile it.
+
+What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+case, we have to forget the solution where each
+socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Thierry Mallard" <thierry@mallard.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:31 AM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> On Mon, Feb 26, 2001 at 05:49:39PM +0100, Bernard Hugueney wrote:
+> > [ Linux and threads ]
+> > Well, I'm as far as possible from a threads expert, but I think that
+> > what makes LinuxThreads special is that they are system threads (vs user
+> > threads) maybe heavier, but making use of SMP, so basically, I think
+> > the max nb of threads is very much system dependand (SMP?).
+>
+> In Linux 2.4.x, you may configure the maximum threads with
+> /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max, if i remember correctly.
+>
+> But the default value (4096) is still much more that what the default
+kernel
+> can really handle nicely, as is it said in some other posts. We'll have to
+> look deeper into this...
+>
+>
+> Shaman
+>
+> --
+> Thierry Mallard              |
+> GnuPG key on wwwkeys.pgp.net |
+> key 0xA3D021CB               |
+> http://thierry.mallard.com   |
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a17656c5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000290.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:48:50 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+Yes, we didn't send a message to say what do we think about this library
+(sate thread).
+We currently look in deep the documentation and it seems a very interesting.
+We just have to be sure that this lib fulfils our requirements.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Dim Segebart" <zager@teleaction.com>
+To: <Nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:17 PM
+Subject: Re[2]: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> I  have already posted this information to NEL list, but as
+> this topic have been arised it's worth to mention it once again.
+> At  SGI  web  site  there  is (IMHO) great article (and library) which
+> tries to solve common problem of networked application.
+> Look at it by the URL
+http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/docs/st.html
+> Project home page is http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+>
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0a6ba1f5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000291.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:57:11 +0100 +

+
+ +
+> In this case, we have to forget the solution where each
+> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+> and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+I encouter the same problem : one thread must manage more than one 
+socket on the server. the problem is how managing those socket
+in the thread. the problem is I want to be portable between windows
+and linux :((
+
+under windows there is many solution :
+  - select (the only one which is portable)
+  - windows event and message
+  - overlapped I/O
+
+under linux the only solution I know is :
+  - select / poll :  i'm not sure but i think the difference between
+    select and poll is that with poll you don't have to fill your array
+    before each call.
+
+another problem when a thread maange more than one socket is
+what your threads will do :
+
+a first approch is something like that :
+
+while(run)
+{
+   TestSokets();
+
+   for each socket which received something
+   do
+     read the incoming data
+     process the data
+     send data
+   done
+}
+
+but during one step of this loop your socket list must be locked
+so if a new socket need to enter this thread the calling thread will be
+blocked.
+
+a solution is to have more than one thread type.
+thread which test and read socket (perhaps wire in socket to)
+thread which to process a network message queue.
+(and perhaps thread which send network message)
+
+but it increase the number of thread so the maximum
+number of client is lesser.
+
+but i'm not really used to programming with thread yet so perhaps
+my problem are not really problems.
+
+i hope this can help and you can understand me :))
+and i think i'll take a look at http://oss.sgi.com/projects/state-threads/
+to ...
+
+good luck
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..96029b1f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000292.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] State Threads library + + + + + + +

[Nel] State Threads library

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:33:10 +0100 +

+
+ +
There is a very very big problem in the State Threads library
+
+The State Threads library is a derivative of the Netscape Portable Runtime
+library (NSPR) and therefore is distributed under the Netscape Public
+License (NPL).
+
+And the NPL is not compatible with GPL licence so we could not use it in
+your GPL project!!!
+
+Another less important problem is that it doesn't work on windows and our
+server must be able to run on windows (for debugging purpose for example)
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..de2c505e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000293.html @@ -0,0 +1,305 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Leighton Haynes + dayta@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800 +

+
+ +
--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: inline
+
+Hi Guys,
+    Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+    to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+    extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+    and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+
+    To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+    and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=<position of the 
+    Xxf86vm lib> - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+    it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+
+    Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+
+Leighton...
+
+--
+
+Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+(08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.configure.in"
+
+Index: configure.in
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/configure.in,v
+retrieving revision 1.23
+diff -r1.23 configure.in
+232a233,251
+> dnl ============================================
+> dnl Check for XF86VidMode extension (-lXxf86vm)
+> dnl ============================================
+> AC_MSG_CHECKING("for XF86VidMode extension")
+> AC_ARG_WITH( xf86vidmode,
+>     [ --with-xf86vidmode=<path>     path to the XF86VidMode lib.
+>                           e.g. /usr/X11R6/lib],
+>     [VMLIB_DIR=$with_xf86vidmode
+>       AC_MSG_RESULT(using VidMode library located in $with_xf86vidmode.)],
+>     AC_MSG_RESULT(Compiling without Xf86VidMode and hence fullscreen support to compile with XF86VidMode support, use --with-xf86vidmode=<pathtolib>)
+> )
+> 
+> if test X"$VMLIB_DIR" != X;
+> then
+>     LIBS="-L$VMLIB_DIR -lXxf86vm $LIBS";
+>     CXXFLAGS="$CXXFLAGS -DXF86VIDMODE";
+> fi
+> 
+> 
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.driver_opengl.cpp"
+
+Index: driver_opengl.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.75
+diff -r1.75 driver_opengl.cpp
+140d139
+< 	_FullScreen= false;
+144c143,149
+< #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX) // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     memset(&_OldScreenMode,0,sizeof(_OldScreenMode));// zero the old screen mode
+> #endif //XF86VIDMODE
+> #endif
+> 
+> 	_FullScreen= false;
+225a231
+>         {
+226a233
+>         }
+351c358
+< 	  {
+---
+>     {
+353c360
+< 	  }
+---
+>     }
+355c362
+< 	  {
+---
+>     {
+357c364
+< 	  }
+---
+>     }
+364c371,385
+< 	attr.override_redirect = False;
+---
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     // If we're going to attempt fullscreen, we need to set redirect to True,
+>     // This basically places the window with no borders in the top left 
+>     // corner of the screen.
+>     if (mode.Windowed)
+>     {
+>         attr.override_redirect = False;
+>     }
+>     else
+>     {
+> 	    attr.override_redirect = True;
+>     }
+> #else
+>     attr.override_redirect = False;
+> #endif
+409,411c430,507
+< //	XEvent event;
+< //	XIfEvent(dpy, &event, WaitForNotify, (char *)this);
+< 
+---
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     if (!mode.Windowed)
+>     {
+>     
+>         // Set window to the right size, map it to the display, and raise it
+>         // to the front
+>         XResizeWindow(dpy,win,mode.Width,mode.Height);
+>         XMapRaised(dpy,win);
+>         XRaiseWindow(dpy, win);
+> 
+>         // grab the mouse and keyboard on the fullscreen window 
+>         if ((XGrabPointer(dpy, win, True, 0,
+>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync,
+>                           win, None, CurrentTime) != GrabSuccess) ||
+>             (XGrabKeyboard(dpy, win, True,
+>                           GrabModeAsync, GrabModeAsync, CurrentTime) != 0) )
+>         {
+>             // Until I work out how to deal with this nicely, it just gives
+>             // an error and exits the prorgam.
+>             nlerror("Unable to grab keyboard and mouse\n");
+>         }
+>         else
+>         {
+>             // Save the old screen mode and dotclock
+>             memset(&_OldScreenMode, 0, sizeof(_OldScreenMode));
+>             XF86VidModeGetModeLine(dpy, 
+>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                    &_OldDotClock,
+>                                    &_OldScreenMode);
+>             // Save the old viewport
+>             XF86VidModeGetViewPort(dpy, 
+>                                    DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                    &_OldX,
+>                                    &_OldY);
+>     
+>             // get a list of modes, search for an appropriate one.
+>             XF86VidModeModeInfo **modes;
+>             int nmodes;
+>             if (XF86VidModeGetAllModeLines(dpy,
+>                                            DefaultScreen(dpy),
+>                                            &nmodes,&modes))
+>             {
+>                 int mode_index = -1; // Gah, magic numbers all bad. 
+>                 for (int i = 0; i < nmodes; i++)
+>                 {
+>                     nldebug("Available mode - %dx%d\n",mode.Width,mode.Height);
+>                     if( (modes[i]->hdisplay == mode.Width) &&
+>                         (modes[i]->vdisplay == mode.Height))
+>                     {
+>                         mode_index = i;
+>                     }
+>                 }
+>                 // Switch to the mode
+>                 if (mode_index != -1)
+>                 {
+>                     if(XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,
+>                                                DefaultScreen(dpy), 
+>                                                modes[mode_index]))
+>                     {
+>                         nlinfo("Switching to mode %dx%d,\n",mode.Width, 
+>                                                             mode.Height);
+>                         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),0, 0);
+>                         _FullScreen = true;
+>                     }
+>                 }
+>                 else
+>                 {
+>                     // This is a problem, since we've nuked the border from 
+>                     // window in the setup stage, until I work out how
+>                     // to get it back (recreate window? seems excessive)
+>                     nlerror("Couldn't find an appropriate mode %dx%d\n",
+>                                                                 mode.Width,
+>                                                                 mode.Height);
+>                 }
+>             }
+>         }
+>     }
+> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+659c755,776
+< #endif // NL_OS_WINDOWS
+---
+> #elif defined (NL_OS_UNIX)// NL_OS_WINDOWS
+> 
+> #ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     if(_FullScreen)
+>     {
+>         XF86VidModeModeInfo info;
+>         nlinfo("Switching back to original mode \n");
+> 
+>         // This is a bit ugly - a quick hack to copy the ModeLine structure 
+>         // into the modeInfo structure.
+>         memcpy((XF86VidModeModeLine *)((char *)&info + sizeof(info.dotclock)), &_OldScreenMode, sizeof(XF86VidModeModeLine));
+>         info.dotclock = _OldDotClock;
+> 
+>         nlinfo("Mode is %dx%d,\n",info.hdisplay,info.vdisplay);
+>         XF86VidModeSwitchToMode(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),&info);
+>         nlinfo("Switching viewporr to %d,%d,\n",_OldX, _OldY);
+>         XF86VidModeSetViewPort(dpy,DefaultScreen(dpy),_OldX,_OldY);
+>         // Ungrab the keyboard (probably not necessary);
+>         XUngrabKeyboard(dpy, CurrentTime);
+>     }
+> #endif // XF86VIDMODE
+> #endif // NL_OS_UNIX
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
+Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="diff.driver_opengl.h"
+
+Index: driver_opengl.h
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/driver/opengl/driver_opengl.h,v
+retrieving revision 1.50
+diff -r1.50 driver_opengl.h
+40a41
+> #include <X11/extensions/xf86vmode.h>
+219a221
+> 	bool						_FullScreen;
+230d231
+< 	bool						_FullScreen;
+238a240,244
+> //#ifdef XF86VIDMODE
+>     int                         _OldDotClock;   // old dotclock
+>     XF86VidModeModeLine         _OldScreenMode; // old modeline
+>     int                         _OldX, _OldY;   //Viewport settings
+> //#endif //XF86VIDMODE
+240d245
+< 
+
+--vkogqOf2sHV7VnPd--
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5bb46c8b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000294.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:30:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
Vianney Lecroart wrote:
+> 
+> What we don't know is the thread number limit after what the system uses too
+> much CPU. In the linuxthread faq, they
+> said that an application should not create more than 100 thread. In this
+> case, we have to forget the solution where each
+> socket is on a thread and use a blocked receive(). The problem is that
+> select() is quite slow and if we have only 100 thread,
+> each thread needs to manage, with a select(), around 50 players and we ll
+> lost lot of time to create the array for the select()
+> and check who have wakeup the select().
+
+Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e4127c7d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000295.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:10:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Looking at Apache or Samba projects, it seems that a good compromise is to
+> set a 'maximum client requests by thread' and spawns threads accordingly.
+> Apache uses process forking and memory sharing, but the design remains the
+> same. You then just tune this max_request_by_thread for each OS, say 1 for
+> Solaris which is said thread-efficient, 10 for Linux ? Just a hint ...
+
+ok this is a solution
+but as i said in my last mail the problem
+is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+
+under windows i know other solution than select / poll but under
+unixes i don't know other solutions.
+
+some one knows other one ?
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..835ff2f7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000296.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Yan Babilliot + yan@nevrax.com
+ 28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100 +

+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5cba9d1b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000297.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:28:35 +0100 +

+
+ +
> is how managing more than one socket per thread efficiently ?
+
+There's no 1000000 solutions :)
+In fact, if you want to be portable, there s only one solution (if think),
+it s select() that is available on all BSD socket system (all unix, linux
+and windows)
+The other solution is poll() that it should have better performance but is
+conform to XPG4-UNIX (not available on windows)
+And other solutions are OS specific (on unix, i don t know other solutions).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e5d91059 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000298.html @@ -0,0 +1,51 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:30:55 +0100 +

+
+ +
I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b4e53fc4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000299.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Yan Babilliot + yan@nevrax.com
+ 28 Feb 2001 15:38:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
oops sorry ;)   
+nel@nevrax.org wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+:(
+
+> On 28 Feb 2001 15:16:03 +0100, Yan Babilliot wrote:
+
+> putain quand je vois ca ca mfout les nerfs d'informaticien. Zauraaient
+> du vous acheter des pots de yaourt avec des ficelles s'aurait ete moins
+> cher ... 
+> 
+> 
+> 
+> On 28 Feb 2001 20:16:17 +0800, Leighton Haynes wrote:
+> > Hi Guys,
+> >     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+> >     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+> >     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+> >     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+> > 
+> >     To enable it you need to remake the configure script (./bootstrap)
+> >     and run configure with the --with-xf86vidmode=<position of the 
+> >     Xxf86vm lib> - usually /usr/X11R6/lib. If this option isn't given, 
+> >     it will currently compile without fullscreen support.
+> > 
+> >     Anyhow, have a play, if anyone finds bugs... erm.. bug me ;)
+> > 
+> > Leighton...
+> > 
+> > --
+> > 
+> > Part-time student. Full-time Programmer. 
+> > Seeking the 36 hour day and the 10 hour working week.
+> > (08) 9272 9058 (Home - like I'm ever there)
+> > 0401 335 136 (Mobile - like it's ever on)
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5720e5cf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000300.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Vincent Archer + archer@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:05:17 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Yan Babilliot:
+> oops sorry ;)   
+> nel@nevrax.org wasn't the destination of this mail ..... a goofy click
+> :(
+
+Too much network destroys the network.
+
+I'm rather fond of smoke signals myself. A lot better than can'n string
+for long range transmission, but the bandwidth sucks :)
+
+-- 
+Vincent Archer                                         Email: archer@nevrax.com
+
+Nevrax France.                              Off on the yellow brick road we go!
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..57cabbb7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000301.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:11:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
i'm aggry with you
+at this time i'll use select for windows and linux (or poll for linux)
+and design my server so that i can implement another better solution.
+
+has i said before better solution under windows are
+ - are windows message and event and i don't want use it
+ - overlapped I/O but i don't really understand how it works
+   so it's not easy to design a server which is able to use select and this
+   technic. perhaps you already know it but you can take a look at
+http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent/programming/winsock/articles/io-strategies.html
+
+
+> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of adopting
+> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of service
+> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it would
+> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get the
+> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract model
+> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2c444ca8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000302.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #64 - 21 msgs

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:49:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
Brandon Barker wrote:
+> 
+> Yes, I have this very file located at /usr/X11R6/include/GL
+
+I change the OpenGL checking 2 days ago, and it's, now, checking the <GL/gl.h>
+file for the define GL_VERSION_1_2, as we are using OpenGL 1.2.
+
+Before that it was checking for the define GL_GLEXT_VERSION in the <GL/glext.h>
+file ... i now, that wasn't very clean :-(
+
+Otherwise, that could come from the fact that /usr/X11R6/include/ isn't in
+your default include directory list, ithat apear on some system and i plan
+to do this type of checking soon, in that case you should try to to execute
+the configure script as following :
+
+  $ CXXFLAGS="-pipe -I/usr/X11R6/include" ./configure [..]
+
+
+I hope that will help,
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a8458d6c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000303.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Linux fullscreen patches + + + + + + +

[Nel] Linux fullscreen patches

+ Valignat Cedric + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:23:20 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Leighton,
+
+Leighton Haynes wrote:
+>
+>     Attached to this should be 3 diffs against the current cvs tree
+>     to enable fullscreen under linux using the XFree86 VidMode
+>     extensions. The aptches are for the configure.in script, 
+>     and driver_opengl.{cpp,h}.
+>
+> [...]
+
+Nice ! :-)))
+
+Give some time to apply and test your patches, and it will be "integrated" ;-)
+
+Thanks,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b2474f3f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000304.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Zane + zane@supernova.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:04:59 -0800 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> I was more or less suggesting than the solution is not a matter of
+adopting
+> select() or not, but rather implies a deeper reflexion on the pb of
+service
+> scheduling... And being cross-platform doesn't mean being uniform, it
+would
+> be a shame to ignore each OS's specificity. An approach could be to get
+the
+> best implementation, say, for Linux and Windows, find out an abstract
+model
+> that unifies both and brings this into NeL. Here again, just a hint ...
+
+
+Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+already implemented.
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a61b8511 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000305.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:52:32 +0100 +

+
+ +
you're right
+many people and project were confront to this problem
+and they resolve it.
+
+but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+
+i think for a web server
+the browser connect to the server when it need something
+but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+you're client is always connected to the server
+it's not exactly the same things.
+
+> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+> already implemented.
+> 
+
+
+
+-- 
+Nicolas Hognon
+home : cblt@cblt.org         / www.cblt.org
+work : nicolash@virtools.com / www.virtools.com
+#ICQ : 36044443
+    
+Enjoy the silence
+(DM)
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ee0d6fa5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000306.html @@ -0,0 +1,59 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ elijah wright + elw@stderr.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:51:45 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+> you're client is always connected to the server
+> it's not exactly the same things.
+
+as i recall, the jabber.org people have done some scalability work for
+just this kind of thing- their IM client is an always-on/always-available
+service.
+
+might be fun to ask some of them what their ideas on this are.
+
+elijah
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..aa6befad --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000307.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Zane + zane@supernova.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:08:22 -0800 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Nicolas Hognon" <cblt@cblt.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+
+
+> but the design of a web server or a ftpserver is another
+> thing than the design of a server for a MMORPG.
+>
+> i think for a web server
+> the browser connect to the server when it need something
+> but in a game like the one developped by nevrax
+> you're client is always connected to the server
+> it's not exactly the same things.
+
+If nothing else this simply means that it has spent a great deal of time
+optimizing opening and closing connections (and waiting on incoming
+connections).  Perhaps combining their opening/closing optimizations with
+the optimizations Jabber has made for always-on connections would give us
+the best of both worlds.  I'd be willing to bet that Jabber has already
+borrowed a lot of code from projects like Apache.
+
+Anyway, at this point I don't think I have anything else usefull to add to
+the discussion since I doubt I'll get around to doing the research myself so
+back into lurker mode. :)
+
+-E.J. Wilburn
+zane@supernova.org
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..3af23ac3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000308.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] NeL Network Engine + + + + + + +

[Nel] NeL Network Engine

+ Bernard Hugueney + nevrax@bernard-hugueney.org
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:13:12 +0100 +

+
+ +
* Zane <zane@supernova.org> [010228 19:17]:
+> ----- Original Message -----
+> From: "Vincent Caron" <v.caron@zerodeux.net>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] NeL Network Engine
+>
+>
+> Would not the wisest choice be to research all the high performance web
+> servers out there?  It seems to me that this problem has been researched
+> quite extensively by a LOT of other GPL projects.  I doubt you'd be able to
+> find a better solution than what Apache or other heavy duty web servers have
+> already implemented.
+>
+> -E.J. Wilburn
+> zane@supernova.org
+>
+Indeed, this is a MUCH debated suject. But I'm afraid Apache is not
+the fastest example to follow (they have special constraints such as modules
+interface) Zeus and TUX Threaded linUX webserver or BOA come to mind.
+http://www.kegel.com/c10k.html seems interesting but a nit out of date ...
+Anyway, there was a discussion on lkml on how to overcome select()/poll()
+shortcomings with a new API. If it made it to kernel 2.4, you should be
+looking that way.
+
+Bernard
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..356f473a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/000309.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Error in the client: Read error in file 'data/' (End of file??)

+ robert@paradox.got.net + robert@paradox.got.net
+ Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:15 -0800 (PST) +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+I too am hoping to get snowballs running on a Debian/GNU Linux
+machine.  I too have run into the error message mentioned in the
+title.  I'd love to see a patch for it.  So far I've traced it down to
+a call to setupTexture which is exiting the program.  My C++ skills
+are not strong enough to hunt this down any further.
+
+I have an Athalon 700, 512M ram, and GeForce 256.  
+Libc6 2.2.2, 
+gcc 2.95.3, 
+
+Other info available on request.
+
+Thanks in advance,
+Robert
+
+-- 
+Robert de Forest      "Love is like a snowmobile flying over the
+System Administrator   frozen tundra that suddenly flips, pinning you
+Got.net                underneath.  At night the ice weasles come. "
+<robert@got.net>             -- Matt Groenig (Simpsons creator)
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..32bd239e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,197 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Author + + + +

2001-February Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9246506d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,197 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Date + + + +

2001-February Archives by Date

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9f74d8d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,456 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-February Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d9d79edf --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,197 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Subject + + + +

2001-February Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9f74d8d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-February/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,456 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-February Archive by Thread + + + +

2001-February Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Wed Feb 7 15:02:57 2001
+ Ending: Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Messages: 149

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Feb 28 22:28:15 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Feb 28 23:34:00 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + -- cgit v1.2.1