From 0ea5fc66924303d1bf73ba283a383e2aadee02f2 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: neodarz Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 20:21:34 +0200 Subject: Initial commit --- pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html | 67 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html | 544 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html | 77 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html | 71 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html | 122 +++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html | 69 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html | 71 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html | 58 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html | 153 +++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html | 153 +++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html | 57 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html | 60 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html | 66 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html | 62 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html | 72 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html | 100 ++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html | 69 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html | 67 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html | 82 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html | 76 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html | 69 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html | 74 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html | 76 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html | 70 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html | 68 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html | 103 ++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html | 75 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html | 115 +++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html | 72 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html | 116 +++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html | 91 ++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html | 63 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html | 77 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html | 97 ++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html | 76 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html | 73 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html | 68 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html | 80 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html | 82 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html | 74 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html | 113 +++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html | 78 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html | 103 ++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html | 95 ++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html | 97 ++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html | 156 +++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html | 180 ++++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html | 132 ++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html | 141 ++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html | 65 ++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html | 128 ++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html | 73 +++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html | 312 ++++++++++++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html | 312 ++++++++++++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html | 420 ++++++++++++++++++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html | 312 ++++++++++++++++++ pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html | 420 ++++++++++++++++++++++++ 57 files changed, 6852 insertions(+) create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html create mode 100644 pipermail/nel/2001-December/thread.html (limited to 'pipermail/nel/2001-December') diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f76b8332 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000772.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw + + + + + + +

[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:21:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Vincent,
+
+I would like to thank you for your help and your advises regarding the mouse
+interface.
+
+Yes you're right, the best mouse implementation should use the mickey mode.
+A second implementation of the Events Emitter is planed in a near future.
+This will introduce new messages for all the input interfaces including
+mickey messages using Directinput and Dga.
+After this work, the client side code could be modified to virtualise the
+input regarding the user configuration.
+For the time, the one we use is only based on win32 and xlib basic messages
+so, it is not very smart. Sorry for this.
+
+Be sure we want a NeL Gnu/Linux implementation as good as possible. :-)
+Thanks again for your help.
+
+Best regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..af936f1c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000773.html @@ -0,0 +1,544 @@ + + + + [Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =) + + + + + + +

[Nel] umm got some porblems , plz help =)

+ Stein Arve Berge + hubbster@online.no
+ Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:42:18 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Creating temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /MD /W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D "WIN32" /D =
+"NDEBUG" /D "NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /Fp"ReleaseDebug/misc.pch" /YX =
+/Fo"ReleaseDebug/" /Fd"ReleaseDebug/" /FD /c=20
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_re=
+gistry.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stre=
+am.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h=
+.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_f=
+ile\config_file.yacc.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_li=
+stener.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_se=
+rver.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.c=
+pp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_even=
+t_emitter.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id=
+.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displaye=
+r.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp"=
+
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cp=
+p"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp=
+"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_pt=
+r.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_i=
+nfo.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_man=
+ager.cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.=
+cpp"
+"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_thre=
+ad.cpp"
+]
+Creating command line "cl.exe =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp"=20
+Creating temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp" =
+with contents
+[
+/nologo /out:"../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib"=20
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mem_stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\matrix.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rect.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vector_h.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_event_emitter.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\class_id.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\displayer.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\mutex.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\task_manager.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj
+.\ReleaseDebug\win_thread.obj
+]
+Creating command line "link.exe -lib =
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp"
+
+Output Window
+
+Compiling...
+class_registry.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_reg=
+istry.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No such file or directory
+file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+such file or directory
+mem_stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mem_strea=
+m.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': No such file or directory
+stream.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/stream.h': No such file or directory
+matrix.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/matrix.h': No such file or directory
+plane.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': =
+No such file or directory
+quat.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rect.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+such file or directory
+vector.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector.h': No such file or directory
+vector_h.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No such file or directory
+vectord.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vectord.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/vectord.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_fi=
+le\config_file.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+config_file.yacc.cpp
+config_file.yacc(14) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file or directory
+event_listener.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_lis=
+tener.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No such file or directory
+event_server.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_ser=
+ver.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_server.h': No such file or directory
+events.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\events.cp=
+p(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+win_event_emitter.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event=
+_emitter.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/events.h': No such file or directory
+bit_set.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No such file or directory
+class_id.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.=
+cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_id.h': No such file or directory
+debug.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': =
+No such file or directory
+displayer.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp(32) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+i18n.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(=
+31) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+such file or directory
+log.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(3=
+1) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/displayer.h': No such file or directory
+mutex.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp=
+(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+path.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+such file or directory
+rgba.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(=
+26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+such file or directory
+smart_ptr.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr=
+.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': No such file or directory
+system_info.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_in=
+fo.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+task_manager.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_mana=
+ger.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No such file or directory
+time_nl.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.c=
+pp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+win_thread.cpp
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_threa=
+d.cpp(26) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No such file or directory
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+
+
+
+Results
+
+snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)
+
+
+yes im a newbie =3D)
+
+Feel free to mail me back : hubbster@online.no
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
+charset=3Diso-8859-1">
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>Creating temporary file=20
+"C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" with =
+contents<BR>[<BR>/nologo /MD=20
+/W3 /GR /GX /Zi /O2 /D "_MBCS" /D "_LIB" /D "WIN32" /D "NDEBUG" /D=20
+"NL_RELEASE_DEBUG" /Fp"ReleaseDebug/misc.pch" /YX /Fo"ReleaseDebug/"=20
+/Fd"ReleaseDebug/" /FD /c=20
+<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\clas=
+s_registry.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\ne=
+l\src\misc\file.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\sno=
+wballs\client\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\t=
+est\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.c=
+om\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanpara=
+dox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp"<BR>"E:\urba=
+nparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp"<BR>"=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.=
+cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\=
+vectord.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\s=
+rc\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\tes=
+t\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.yacc.cpp"<BR>"E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\event_listen=
+er.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\mi=
+sc\event_server.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\events.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upm=
+morpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox=
+.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp"<BR>"E:\urb=
+anparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp"<BR>"=
+E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\displayer=
+.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc=
+\i18n.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src=
+\misc\log.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel=
+\src\misc\mutex.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg=
+\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp"<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.=
+com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp"<BR>"E:\=
+urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp"=
+<BR>"E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_=
+thread.cpp"<BR>]<BR>Creating=20
+command line "cl.exe @C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1D.tmp" =
+<BR>Creating=20
+temporary file "C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp" with=20
+contents<BR>[<BR>/nologo /out:"../lib/nlmisc_rd.lib"=20
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\class_registry.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\file.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\mem_stream.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\stream.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\m=
+atrix.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\plane.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\quat.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\rect.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vector.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vector_=
+h.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\vectord.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.obj<BR>=
+.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.lex.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\config_file.yacc.obj=
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_emitter.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_listener.obj=
+<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\event_server.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\events.obj<BR>.\Rel=
+easeDebug\win_event_emitter.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\bit_set.obj<BR>.\Releas=
+eDebug\class_id.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\debug.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\display=
+er.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\i18n.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\log.obj<BR>.\ReleaseD=
+ebug\mutex.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\path.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\rgba.obj<BR>.=
+\ReleaseDebug\smart_ptr.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\system_info.obj<BR>.\Releas=
+eDebug\task_manager.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\time_nl.obj<BR>.\ReleaseDebug\w=
+in_thread.obj<BR>]<BR>Creating command line "link.exe -lib=20
+@C:\DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\RSP1E.tmp"<BR></DIV></FONT>
+<H3>Output Window</H3>
+<DIV><BR>Compiling...<BR>class_registry.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmor=
+pg\test\snowballs\client\nel\src\misc\class_registry.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/class_registry.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>file.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\file.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/file.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>mem_stream.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\mem_stream.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/mem_stream.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>stream.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\stream.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/stream.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>matrix.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\matrix.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/matrix.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>plane.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\plane.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/plane.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>quat.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\quat.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/quat.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>rect.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rect.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rect.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>vector.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\vector.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>vector_h.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\vector_h.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vector_h.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>vectord.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\vectord.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/vectord.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>config_file.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\config_file\config_file.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or directory<BR>config_file.yacc.cpp<BR>config_file.yacc(14) : =
+fatal error=20
+C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/config_file.h': No such file =
+or=20
+directory<BR>event_listener.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snow=
+balls\client\nel\src\misc\event_listener.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_listener.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>event_server.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\event_server.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/event_server.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>events.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cl=
+ient\nel\src\misc\events.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>win_event_emitter.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\s=
+nowballs\client\nel\src\misc\win_event_emitter.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/events.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>bit_set.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\bit_set.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/bit_set.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>class_id.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\=
+client\nel\src\misc\class_id.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/class_id.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>debug.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\debug.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/debug.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>displayer.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\displayer.cpp(32)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>i18n.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\i18n.cpp(31)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/i18n.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>log.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clien=
+t\nel\src\misc\log.cpp(31)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/displayer.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>mutex.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\cli=
+ent\nel\src\misc\mutex.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>path.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\path.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/path.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>rgba.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\clie=
+nt\nel\src\misc\rgba.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/rgba.h': No =
+such file=20
+or=20
+directory<BR>smart_ptr.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs=
+\client\nel\src\misc\smart_ptr.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/smart_ptr.h': =
+No such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>system_info.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowbal=
+ls\client\nel\src\misc\system_info.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>task_manager.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowba=
+lls\client\nel\src\misc\task_manager.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: =
+'nel/misc/task_manager.h': No=20
+such file or=20
+directory<BR>time_nl.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowballs\c=
+lient\nel\src\misc\time_nl.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or=20
+directory<BR>win_thread.cpp<BR>E:\urbanparadox.com\upmmorpg\test\snowball=
+s\client\nel\src\misc\win_thread.cpp(26)=20
+: fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'nel/misc/types_nl.h': No =
+such=20
+file or directory<BR>Error executing cl.exe.<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV>
+<H3>Results</H3>
+<DIV><BR>snowballs.exe - 31 error(s), 0 warning(s)<BR></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>yes im a newbie =3D)</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Feel free to mail me back : <A=20
+href=3D"mailto:hubbster@online.no">hubbster@online.no</A></DIV></FONT></B=
+ODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C17DDE.18205B70--
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..7dbcce98 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000775.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscape Building problems + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscape Building problems

+ Benjamin Legros + legros@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:28:50 +0100 +

+
+ +
+From: "Róbert Bjarnason" <robert@in-orbit.net>
+
+> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+> with /goto.
+
+
+According to the log file, it seems that the build process crashes at the
+tessellation pass :
+
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1186 : setup zone tessellation
+2306 10_AC
+[...]
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1447 : Compute landscape
+tessellation
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 build_surf.cpp 1450 :    - load tile bank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 WRN 1928 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: Path
+not found for warpstorm.smallbank
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 241 : Total Span : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 242 : Total SpanList : 0
+01/12/04 23:01:37 INF 1928 main.cpp 325 : total computation time: 0 days, 0
+hours, 0 minutes and 0 seconds
+
+The builder doesn't find a path to the file 'warpstorm.smallbank'
+It should be located somewhere with the tile files...
+
+
+Benjamin.
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5a694ddc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000776.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscape Building problems + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscape Building problems

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:37:05 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Róbert, nice to see you again on the list :-)
+
+> When I run the client with our landscape the far textures
+> look all strange, the landscape appears and disappears when
+> I move around using /goto.
+
+Perhaps it is the thread loading process that make some times to load new
+zones when you use /goto.
+
+> I also never see the near textures.
+
+If you see arraws, it means the bitmap files are not found.
+Are you sure tiles are in a path directory of the client ?
+Can you check that your client use .dds tiles and not .tga tiles ? ( use
+CTileBank::makeAllExtensionDDS () )
+
+> The .rbank files don't seem to be working because I'm never
+> snapped to ground on our landscape and can't move except
+> with /goto.
+
+I will ask my coworkers for this.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..95614756 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000777.html @@ -0,0 +1,122 @@ + + + + [Nel] Feedback + + + + + + +

[Nel] Feedback

+ Arnaud Bienvenu + arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr
+ Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:00:41 +0100 +

+
+ +
Good morning,
+
+I just tried to compile and run nel/snowballs2 from today's CVS source under
+Linux Redhat 7.2. First I had to apply two tiny patches (see below), and
+then, trying to run snowballs :
+
+WRN 3133 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.soh: shared object not open
+WRN 3133 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+
+Thank you for your attention,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/Makefile.am
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/Makefile.am,v
+retrieving revision 1.58
+diff -u -r1.58 Makefile.am
+--- nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	6 Dec 2001 17:03:03 -0000	1.58
++++ nel/src/3d/Makefile.am	10 Dec 2001 09:55:52 -0000
+@@ -180,11 +180,14 @@
+                        transformable_user.h \
+                        trav_scene.h \
+                        vegetable.h \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.h \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.h \
+                        vegetable_def.h \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.h \
+                        vegetable_manager.h \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.h \
+                        vegetable_shape.h \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.h \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.h \
+                        vertex_buffer.h \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.h \
+@@ -369,11 +372,14 @@
+                        transformable.cpp \
+                        transformable_user.cpp \
+                        vegetable.cpp \
++                       vegetable_blend_layer_model.cpp \
+                        vegetable_clip_block.cpp \
+                        vegetable_def.cpp \
+                        vegetable_instance_group.cpp \
+                        vegetable_manager.cpp \
++                       vegetable_quadrant.cpp \
+                        vegetable_shape.cpp \
++                       vegetable_sort_block.cpp \
+                        vegetablevb_allocator.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer.cpp \
+                        vertex_buffer_hard.cpp \
+
+
+Index: nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp
+===================================================================
+RCS file: /home/cvsroot/code/nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp,v
+retrieving revision 1.1
+diff -u -r1.1 ps_mesh.cpp
+--- nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	6 Dec 2001 16:51:49 -0000	1.1
++++ nel/src/3d/ps_mesh.cpp	10 Dec 2001 10:02:31 -0000
+@@ -840,7 +840,7 @@
+ 
+ //====================================================================================
+ // Private func used to force modulation on a material and to store the preious state
+-static inline ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &destMat, CMaterial &srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
++static inline void ForceMaterialModulation(CMaterial &destMat, CMaterial &srcMat, uint8 modulatedStages)
+ {
+ 	for (uint k = 0; k < IDRV_MAT_MAXTEXTURES; ++k)
+ 	{		
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6c741dea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000778.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit + + + + + + +

[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit

+ Kai Schutte + skander@WPI.EDU
+ Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:13:32 -0500 (EST) +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I'm trying to compile nel and snowballs, I've passed most hurdles, but
+this one is sticking...
+
+While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+
+ps_util.cpp
+D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+to specify a higher limit
+Error executing cl.exe.
+
+I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+
+Can I get a hint?
+
+thanks,
+
+-Kai
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e1c62a26 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000779.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit + + + + + + +

[Nel] compiling nel/3d ps_util.cpp causes error C1076, internal heap limit

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:13:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+I had the same error yesterday. I have added the /Zm200 option in 3d.dsp and
+it seams to work. It should be on the CVS now.
+Big values passed to /Zm option lead to a visual crash.. /Zm100 is the
+default value (100% the default heap size)
+/Zm2000 is 2000% the default heap size ! :-)
+
+Thanks for the feedback,
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+> While compiling ps_util.cpp in nel\src\3d, VC++ 6 gives a fatal error
+> C1076, internal heap limit reached. Full output is
+>
+> ps_util.cpp
+> D:\SKANDER\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT-4.5.1\STLPORT\stl/type_traits.h(339) :
+> fatal error C1076: compiler limit : internal heap limit reached; use /Zm
+> to specify a higher limit
+> Error executing cl.exe.
+>
+> I tried adding the /Zm2000 option, but no luck...
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..864d8380 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000781.html @@ -0,0 +1,58 @@ + + + + [Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs + + + + + + +

[Nel] Rep:Nel digest, Vol 1 #199 - 5 msgs

+ Vincent Caron + v.caron@zerodeux.net
+ 12 Dec 2001 14:17:24 +0100 +

+
+ +
On Wed, 2001-12-12 at 13:03, nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com wrote:
+> I would to know what is the position of Nel (the
+> graphic part) compare to SDL.
+
+Something like 3 abstraction levels above SDL :)
+SDL is a low-level programming framework, while NeL is rather a
+high-level toolkit for game development. I guess the Nevrax guys will
+just ask you to read the doc (at least its outline) if you want to grasp
+the idea ... http://www.nevrax.org/docs/
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..309a0fd5 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000782.html @@ -0,0 +1,153 @@ + + + + [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl) + + + + + + +

[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)

+ Kai Schutte + skander@skander.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:59:01 -0500 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi,=20
+
+I got the 3d lib to compile. I was using the =
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under code\nel\nel.dsw.
+
+Okay, I got one more problem, and it seems to be associated with =
+<GL/glext.h> stuff...=20
+I downloaded and installed the <GL/glext.h> file from the SGI site.
+compiler output:
+
+driver_opengl.cpp
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'glActiveTextureARB'
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+
+at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+which refers to a <GL/glext.h> entry at line 1620:=20
+typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+I would suppose that this is some sort of precompile error... I've tried =
+changing little things in the vacinity, but everything I did just =
+generated more compile errors.=20
+
+Have you bumped into this problem?=20
+
+thanks,=20
+-Kai
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got the 3d lib to compile. I was =
+using the=20
+code\snowballs2\snowballs2.dsw workspace, and maybe that's why it wasn't =
+
+working. I got 3d lib to compile fine under =
+code\nel\nel.dsw.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Okay, I got one more problem, and it =
+seems to be=20
+associated with &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; stuff... </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I downloaded and installed the =
+&lt;GL/glext.h&gt;=20
+file from the SGI site.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>compiler output:</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+'glActiveTextureARB'<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+size=3D2>(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+glActiveTextureARB;</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; =
+entry at line=20
+1620: </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>typedef void (APIENTRY * =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC)=20
+(GLenum texture);<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would suppose that this is some sort =
+of=20
+precompile error... I've tried changing little things in the vacinity, =
+but=20
+everything I did just generated more compile errors. </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have you bumped into this problem? =
+</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks, </FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-Kai</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C1830C.C53C3CB0--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bfc50235 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000783.html @@ -0,0 +1,153 @@ + + + + [Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl) + + + + + + +

[Nel] last compile difficulty I hope... (driver_opengl)

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:18:39 +0100 +

+
+ +
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/plain;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+Hi Kai,
+
+  driver_opengl.cpp
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier =
+'glActiveTextureARB'
+  =
+D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_opengl_extension.h(142) =
+: fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found
+  (repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)
+  =20
+  at line 142 in driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  extern PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC glActiveTextureARB;
+
+I compile without any kind of problem with the current <GL/glext.h> file =
+available on the SGI site. (GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D 7)
+Please make sure you have included the good file. If it is not the =
+problem, don't hesitate to post again.
+
+  which refers to a <GL/glext.h> entry at line 1620:=20
+  typedef void (APIENTRY * PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);
+
+
+I have the same definition at the same line, and it is the only one.
+
+Regards,
+
+Cyril
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060
+Content-Type: text/html;
+	charset="iso-8859-1"
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
+<HTML><HEAD>
+<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
+http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
+<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
+<STYLE></STYLE>
+</HEAD>
+<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Kai,</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
+  =
+size=3D2>driver_opengl.cpp<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\dr=
+iver_opengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier=20
+  =
+'glActiveTextureARB'<BR>D:\skander\code\nel\src\3d\driver\opengl\driver_o=
+pengl_extension.h(142)=20
+  : fatal error C1004: unexpected end of file found<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2>(repeated 9 times for the next 9 files)</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at line 142 in =
+driver_opengl_extension.h you get:=20
+  <BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>extern =
+PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC=20
+  glActiveTextureARB;</FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I compile without any kind of problem =
+with the=20
+current &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; file available on the SGI site. =
+(GL_GLEXT_VERSION =3D=20
+7)</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please make sure you have included the =
+good file.=20
+If it is not the problem, don't hesitate to post=20
+again.</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
+<BLOCKQUOTE=20
+style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
+0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
+  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>which refers to a &lt;GL/glext.h&gt; =
+entry at=20
+  line 1620: </FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>typedef void (APIENTRY *=20
+  PFNGLACTIVETEXTUREARBPROC) (GLenum texture);<BR></FONT><FONT =
+face=3DArial=20
+  size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
+  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
+<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have the same definition at the same =
+line, and it=20
+is the only one.</FONT></DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
+<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
+<DIV>Cyril</DIV></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
+
+------=_NextPart_000_00E3_01C18341.CE1CA060--
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b3012849 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000784.html @@ -0,0 +1,57 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Paul Siegel + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+ Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:14:17 -0500 +

+
+ +
Hi everyone -
+
+I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..19fcdd26 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000785.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ froggy@froggycorp.com + froggy@froggycorp.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:33:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello,
+
+The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the 
+game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+
++
+
+PS : Little hello to the demoscene people who work in 
+nevrax ;) (Ace, Hulud, and all i forgot)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..815bdcc7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000786.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Tony Hoyt + ahoyt@packetport.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:41:20 -0500 +

+
+ +
Paul Siegel wrote:
+> 
+> Hi everyone -
+> 
+> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+  Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor. 
+I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+  Tony
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..625f315b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000787.html @@ -0,0 +1,62 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Tony Hoyt + ahoyt@packetport.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:44:01 -0500 +

+
+ +
froggy@froggycorp.com wrote:
+> The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+> game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+
+  I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+  Tony
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4406639a --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000788.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@mediacom.it
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:08:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
> > The 3D engine seems to be cool but when could we try the
+> > game ? (Stupid question by a stupid gamer :) )
+>
+>   I assume your talking about the official game other then the Snowballs
+> Demo?  I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  Now, here's a
+> question.  If the Nevrax makes a game with NEL, do they have to release
+> the source or not?  Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses NEL.
+But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make them
+public.
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b2e64aea --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000789.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:13:03 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Paul,
+
+> I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+
+The NeL 3d library has several user level.
+
+Using the user interface (all u_headers.h in the 3d lib) of the library, you
+can only
+load and display a landscape. This level is used by the game developper to
+abstract
+the game engine from the technology implementation.
+
+Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+quilckly create patches and
+landscape zones. It is really simple to export some bezier quad patches from
+Blender
+(does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small plugin.
+Simple C++ classes
+are provided to "Builb" the ".zone" c++ objects. Then serialisation is used
+to save them
+in binary files.
+
+The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles, vertex
+color and
+displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At nevrax, this is done by
+the artists using
+a 3dsmax plugin (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+generate
+the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why not, a blender
+painter plugin...
+You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+landscape is not trivial at all.
+If you are short on time, a good solution is to generate painting, as most
+of the heightfield
+landscapes do.
+
+The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+stay the same
+as far as you generate ".zone" files.
+
+>
+> Paul
+>
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0bd65565 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000790.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:23:47 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Valerio,
+
+> You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+NEL.
+> But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+them
+> public.
+
+No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+
+NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+
+In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+of your program under
+the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5ba368f8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000791.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:22 +0100 +

+
+ +
> I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.  
+
+Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+
+Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers 
+team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+
+> Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+
+At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+NeL, you have to release your source code.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f803a52e --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000792.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@mediacom.it
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:42:53 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:30 PM
+Subject: Re: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+> > I would be curious to know just how much more there is in the
+> > Official game client compared to the Snowballs client.
+>
+> Don't forget the snwoball client have been written in 2 weeks. :-)
+>
+> Imagine the work done on the Ryzom client by our game developpers
+> team working on it for a lot of monthes..
+>
+> > Does anyone who uses NEL actually have to release
+> > there code as long as they don't alter the NEL code itself.
+>
+> At this question i can answer yes, by distributing a program using
+> NeL, you have to release your source code.
+
+Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+client??
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ac9a126b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000793.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Valerio Santinelli + tanis@mediacom.it
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:44:08 +0100 +

+
+ +
----- Original Message -----
+From: "Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier" <corvazier@nevrax.com>
+> > You have not got to release the source code of your game since it uses
+> NEL.
+> > But if you make any changes to NEL itself, then you're required to make
+> them
+> > public.
+>
+> No Valerio, you are wrong. :-)
+>
+> NeL is released under GPL license, not under the LGPL.
+>
+> In very quick words, it means that you have to release all the source code
+> of your program under
+> the GPL licence before it can be distributed.
+
+
+I was discussing this with Ace a few moments ago. Yes, you're right, I was
+confusing between GPL and LGPL. :)
+
+--
+Valerio Santinelli
+HateSeed.com Founder (http://www.hateseed.com)
+In Flames Italia Webmaster (http://www.inflames.it)
+My Lab (http://tanis.hateseed.com)
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..6592dab1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000795.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:54:09 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Does this mean that you should also release the source code of Ryzom
+> client??
+
+Yes, as Ryzom client uses GPL source code, we will release its source 
+code too.
+
+Cyril.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4ae3b4db --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000796.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs UDP

+ nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com + nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:05:28 GMT +

+
+ +
In June/Jully, there is a great thread about TCP vs
+UDP. I would like to know where goes the debat.
+
+TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..52a26d85 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000797.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] TCP vs UDP + + + + + + +

[Nel] TCP vs UDP

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:23:54 +0100 +

+
+ +
> TCP+UDP use ? Custom UDP protocol ?
+
+Server to server communication use TCP with 5 NeL layer abstraction (on
+LAN).
+Server to client and client to server communcations use UDP wrapper in NeL
+(CUdpSock).
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0cfb4eb8 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000798.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Nel] Feedback + + + + + + +

[Nel] Feedback

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:10:15 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Arnaud,
+
+Arnaud Bienvenu wrote:
+> 
+> Actually, I have libICE.so, not libICE.soh ! Do you have any idea where this
+> error could come from ? Even if I ln -s libICE.soh libICE.so, I get the same
+> error. My libICE.so comes from XFree86-devel-4.1.0-3.
+
+Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+
+> PS : Please tell me if the patches below are useful for you. If yes, would
+> you prefer to have them attached as text files ?
+
+I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+took a look on ii.
+
+If the patches are small you can do it like that, otherwise that will be
+better to have them as attachments.
+
+
+Thanks a lot for your help.
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..d623050f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000799.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw + + + + + + +

[Nel] small bug, bug unforgivable design flaw

+ Cedric Valignat + valignat@nevrax.com
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:13:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Vincent,
+
+I applied your patch.
+
+Thanks a lot for the help,
+
+
+Cedric.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..05312934 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000801.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ zen + zen@lapisonline.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800 +

+
+ +
Hi Kai,
+
+To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+but it's not obligatory.
+
+Keep up the good work, guys.
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+>
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+>
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+probably
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+the
+> GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+"secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+>
+> Just thinking out loud...
+>
+> -Kai
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..dbd0ccd4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000803.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ J C Lawrence + claw@kanga.nu
+ Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:54:03 -0800 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:31:20 +0800 
+zen  <zen@lapisonline.com> wrote:
+
+> Hi Kai, To my understanding, you don't have to release the source
+> code if you don't sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may
+> release the code in development, but it's not obligatory.
+
+As soon as you distribute the product, which essentially means that
+you give, transfer, or otherwise provide it to someone else than
+yourself or your development team, you must grant that person full
+access to all the relevant sources.  No more, no less.  The GPL
+infects on distribution and only on distribution.
+
+-- 
+J C Lawrence                
+---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
+claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
+http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f8e77ecb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000806.html @@ -0,0 +1,115 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Kai Schutte:
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+> 
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of 
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is probably 
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit the 
+> GPL. 
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore 
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret" 
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on your 
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this 
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+It is not. A violation that is.
+
+I know the GPL is an awful amount of legalese, and, like any legal-jargon
+document, people chiefly know its intent, and not its phrasing.
+
+But the GPL does not force you to release anything.
+
+What the GPL forces you is that, *if* you release any GPL program/library,
+its sources MUST be available (and describes the minimum requirement for
+this availability, i.e. you can't claim the sources are available but you
+need to come to the Tuvalu Islands, wait 3 months of quarantine, and read
+them on a dot-matrix printer listing with surgical gloves on).
+
+Note the "if".
+
+As long as *you* don't have a Ryzom client, *you* are not entitled to ask
+for the sources. A company may very well decide to take a GPL piece of
+software, and use it to write a program it uses internally, and no one
+can come up front and ask for that program's sources. If the company
+uses it internally only, the only legal obligation of source disclosure
+is to the people who have the program, i.e. its own employees.
+
+Of course, the example shown above works as long as the program remains
+inside. Other parts of the GPL allow any employee to pick the internal
+programs, use it to write its own GPL variation, and distribute said
+variation outside of the company, distributing the base source in the
+same way, and there's nothing the company could do to prevent exposure.
+
+But, in Nevrax's case, it's not important, since the program will end
+up available to the public, and when it does, the sources will be.
+
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby making 
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from 
+> public eyes? 
+
+As long as no one outside of Nevrax has Ryzom, the strictures of the GPL
+are respected.
+
+Yeah, I know, we're impatient :)
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..95ebfa99 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000807.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:23:21 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to zen:
+> Hi Kai,
+> 
+> To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you don't
+> sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in development,
+> but it's not obligatory.
+
+It's not "sell", it's "distribute". Even if you distribute it for free
+on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+source must be available.
+
+A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+
+Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+with the rest of the people out there.
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..348debb1 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000808.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:30:36 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+> Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom "secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+
+No it isn't. If oneday, we *distribute* Ryzom program and if Ryzom uses a
+GPL library, in this case, we have to give the source of Ryzom. But today,
+we don't distribute Ryzom, so we don't have to give the source. Look the GPL
+licence, it's based on distribution.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Kai Schutte" <skander@WPI.EDU>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:07 AM
+Subject: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+>
+> On Thursday 13 December 2001 09:49, Vincent Archer wrote:
+> > Whenever you get a GPLed program (and the license on the NeL library
+> > is such that a program linked to it must be GPL too), under any form,
+> > you must also be able to access/request/get a copy of the source.
+> >
+> > So anybody who has a Ryzom client has the right to access the source.
+> >
+> > Of course, until there IS an official client, almost no one outside
+> > Nevrax has that right :)
+>
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+probably
+> currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom must inherit
+the
+> GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+"secret"
+> until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put food on
+your
+> plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet, isn't this
+> secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+>
+> Just thinking out loud...
+>
+> -Kai
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..cdede8e0 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000810.html @@ -0,0 +1,91 @@ + + + + GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question

+ zen + zen@lapisonline.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:28:50 +0800 +

+
+ +
Thank you guys, for enlightening me 8-).  I neglected the keyword
+'distrubte'.
+
+Zen Jean
+----- Original Message -----
+From: "Vincent Archer" <archer@frmug.org>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 5:23 PM
+Subject: Re: GPL specifics -- was: [Nel] Gamer question
+
+
+> According to zen:
+> > Hi Kai,
+> >
+> > To my understanding, you don't have to release the source code if you
+don't
+> > sell it, according to GPL. Surely you may release the code in
+development,
+> > but it's not obligatory.
+>
+> It's not "sell", it's "distribute". Even if you distribute it for free
+> on some web site with anonymous public access, it's distribution, and the
+> source must be available.
+>
+> A lot of projects release their source during development, but that's
+> because they're highly distributed in nature, and it works better. The
+> Ryzom team is working out of the same offices, and probably doesn't
+> have the time to look at most would-be contributions at this stage.
+>
+> Once the initial release is done, they'll have time to further cooperate
+> with the rest of the people out there.
+>
+> --
+> Vincent Archer Email: archer@frmug.org
+>
+> All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are
+Socrates.
+> (Woody Allen)
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e0a6edd2 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000811.html @@ -0,0 +1,63 @@ + + + + [Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics + + + + + + +

[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + corvazier@nevrax.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:52 +0100 +

+
+ +
> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+
+Yes you can use GCC to compile proprietary softwares (else most of
+the playstation, GBA etc..  games are GPL :-) ), only software including 
+GPL code become GPL itself, not the product of GPLed software.
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..adb0a0a7 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000812.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ + + + + [Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics + + + + + + +

[Nel] Using GCC? -- was: GPL specifics

+ Vincent Archer + archer@frmug.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:41:33 +0100 +

+
+ +
According to Tony Hoyt:
+> Okay well I hate to go slightly off topic here but this is a question
+> that I need to ask since we're talking about all GPL, LGPL, etc.  Where
+> does building an application with gcc fall into all of this?  I write a
+> program, build it with gcc or g++ and plan to sell it to other users. 
+> But, I don't want to distribute the source of the application.  Can I
+> still use gcc/g++?  or am I forced to find an alternative compiler such
+> as VisualC for windows or a unix specific compiler for unix variants?
+
+Even though you *used* GCC to build the program, gcc *itself* is in no
+way present in the program you distribute. There's no portion of gcc
+source code or binary in your application. Thus, your program does not
+inherit the licensing from the gcc GPL license.
+
+The only think that gets bundled is the C library. And the C library
+(glibc) is covered by the LGPL, which specifically allows for that case
+(i.e. distributing a program that is linked with a GPL software, without
+ placing the GPL strictures on the program itself).
+
+The same thing would apply to a C grammar parser that was generated
+by bison (the GPL parser generation tool). Using bison to generate your
+C source does not require you to put said source under the GPL: bison
+is not included in your program, only its output (hmmm, is the library
+required for bison LGPL? I think so, but can't remember)
+
+-- 
+	Vincent Archer			Email:	archer@frmug.org
+
+All men are mortal.  Socrates was mortal.  Therefore, all men are Socrates.
+							(Woody Allen)
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..bf341918 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000813.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Paul Siegel + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:43:24 -0500 +

+
+ +
> Using the 3d lib at lowlevel (all the others header files) allow you to
+> quilckly create patches and landscape zones. It is really simple to
+> export some bezier quad patches from Blender
+> (does blender have bezier patches ?) into a .zone file using a small
+> plugin. Simple C++ classes are provided to "Builb" the ".zone" c++
+> objects. Then serialisation is used to save them
+> in binary files.
+
+Ok, this will be my first project.  Besides Blender, I'm also looking at
+OpenFX (www.openfx.org).  Unfortunately, I'm a coder not a graphic artist.
+I can't say I'm too learned on how to create bezier patches using either
+program, so I'm going to have to do a bit of research before I even start
+this.  If there are any artists out there with some input (especially
+something like "Blender doesn't support bezier patches") I'd love to hear
+from you.  Hopefully it shouldn't take too long to make either a file
+translator or some kind of export plugin for one of the apps, once I learn
+how to make the content using one of the aforementioned apps.
+
+> The hardest part is the patch painter that allow you to paint tiles,
+vertex
+> color and displacement map over the landscape zone patches. At
+> nevrax, this is done by the artists using a 3dsmax plugin
+> (nel_patch_paint). If you can't use 3dsmax, you can perhaps
+> generate the painting or rewrite a little ingame zone painter or why
+> not, a blender painter plugin...
+
+Right, this will be phase 2.  I was sort of expecting this to be the hard
+part.
+
+> You have to know that the painter algorithm that put tiles over the
+> landscape is not trivial at all.  If you are short on time, a good
+> solution is to generate painting, as most of the heightfield
+> landscapes do.
+
+Can you elaborate on this?  Are you talking about coming up with some kind
+of algorithm to color the geometries instead of using textures?  I don't
+follow.
+
+> The postprocess to weld the zones together and compute the lighting will
+> stay the same as far as you generate ".zone" files.
+
+Right, I'm assuming that once the .zone files are generated, I can follow
+the process used with 3DS Max.
+
+Thanks for the feedback Cyril.  It's nice to see how much input the official
+team has on this list.
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a630ad3d --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000814.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question

+ Paul Siegel + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:52:43 -0500 +

+
+ +
Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of "if
+you distribute".  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+
+Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+
+Paul
+
+> I don't want to drag this out eternally, but I see a little lapse of
+> reasoning. Technically speaking, the development version of Ryzom is
+> probably currently being linked and tested with NeL, therefore, Ryzom
+> must inherit  the GPL.
+> Therefore, the current development code is in the public domain, therefore
+> should be published. Of course, I understand your need to keep Ryzom
+> "secret" until it is done, releasable and sellable, so that you can put
+food
+> on your plates (and buy big cars for your Venture Capital people), yet,
+isn't
+> this secrecy a violation of the GPL, since Ryzom is GPL'd?
+>
+> Wouldn't it be better then, for Nevrax, if NeL was LGPL, and thereby
+making
+> it legal (or rather, in accordance to the GPL) for you to keep Ryzom from
+> public eyes?
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..51ebfc91 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000815.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] RE: GPL confusion + + + + + + +

[Nel] RE: GPL confusion

+ Jon Watte + hplus@mindcontrol.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:49 -0800 +

+
+ +
> Therefore, the current development code is in the public 
+> domain, therefore should be published.
+
+I find two things confusing about this sentence.
+
+1) Something that is under GPL is explicitly NOT in the public 
+domain, as something under the GPL suffers substantially more 
+restrictive licensing than something that is in the public 
+domain. Basically, if it's in the PD, you can do what you want 
+to it, except POSSIBLY not mis-represent the origin. The GPL 
+imposes many more strictures on your use of the code.
+
+2) The GPL only requires that source code is made available 
+free of charge to anyone who purchases binaries, and that no 
+restrictions are made on the purchaser's rights to use that 
+source code (including subsequent redistribution). If Ryzom is 
+not for sale to anyone, then there is no requirement for the 
+developers thereof to make any source code available.
+
+Now, the GPL may have changed slightly since I last read it 
+through in full, but your statement does not seem to be based 
+on the actual language of the GPL.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..eb7e9631 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000816.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole) + + + + + + +

[Nel] Gamer question (the asp hole)

+ Michael Warnock + michael@in-orbit.net
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:29:14 -0800 +

+
+ +
12/14/2001 5:52:43 AM, "Paul Siegel" <psiegel@geneticanomalies.com> wrote:
+
+>Kai, from my reading of the GPL, everything wraps around the clause of "if
+>you distribute".  Since Ryzom has yet to be distributed, I don't think
+>Nevrax is under any obligation to share the source code.
+>
+>Under this same logic, I would think that Nevrax will never have to release
+>the source code of their servers, since such software is really for internal
+>use only, not to be distributed.  Isn't that correct?
+>
+thats what's known as the ASP hole (application service provider).  On the one hand it has been used to create money-making websites out of gpl pieces by companies who have never released their code changes.  On the 
+other hand, with a massively multiplayer game there is a lot of server side stuff- rules/ agent experience/ object locations that you may not want to release in the interests of gameplay.  However, most of that type of thing can 
+be abstracted from the core programs and written in a definition or scripting language specific to the game or in some general purpose language like python.  these interpreted programs, stored in some database, can now be 
+considered content and free from gpl obligations.  But that means that even if all the backend source is available, you have a lot of work to do before it does anything useful.
+with a few grey areas in rules (physics?) I think this is as it should be.
+
+michael
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f894930b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000817.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....) + + + + + + +

[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)

+ Nicolas Hognon + cblt@cblt.org
+ Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:11:43 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hello ....
+
+I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+front ends there is some computers running different services.
+And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all shard
+?)
+
+Clients communicate with one front end of a shard.
+
+But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+or a specific service from NEL ?
+
+The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+NEL ?
+
+If there a description of all NEL services ?
+what is the welcome service ?
+
+sorry for all this questions ....
+bye
+
+--
+Nicolas Hognon
+nicolash@virtools.com
+
+Virtools - The Behavior Company
+Tel. (+33) 1 42 71 46 86 / Fax. (+33) 1 42 71 86 53
+http://www.virtools.com/
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..09a14474 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000818.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax

+ Markus Ewald + Markus_Ewald@gmx.net
+ Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:02:07 +0100 +

+
+ +
Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+
+> Paul Siegel wrote:
+> >
+> > Hi everyone -
+> >
+> > I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio Max.
+> > That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> > available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> > rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+>
+>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to be
+> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+
+There's also a free landscape modeller at
+-> www.geofrac2000.com
+
+It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of 3dsmax.
+The author discontinued the project and made it available for free, but it's
+still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with the
+raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+
+>
+>
+>   Tony
+>
+
+-Markus-
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..13b80e82 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000819.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic) + + + + + + +

[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)

+ Alexander Denisov + denisov@darkwing.uoregon.edu
+ Sun, 16 Dec 2001 02:29:15 -0800 +

+
+ +
Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+
+I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+
+I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+(and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+
+By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a "green light"
+to hackers? Are there any ways
+somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+hacker
+knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+game in secret
+(though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+
+I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+important question.
+
+By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+it)
+
+Alex
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..786764b4 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000820.html @@ -0,0 +1,113 @@ + + + + [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic) + + + + + + +

[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probably off topic)

+ alfred + alfred@mazuma.net.au
+ Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:20:56 +1100 +

+
+ +
I have nothing to do with the nevrax team but I know the answer to this. 
+To put it simply, there is not security in obscurity. The protection 
+isn't in the alogrithm, its in the "secret" that is shared. This axiom 
+has been proved time and again, just look at the troubles windows has 
+with its codebase... The lack of published source code ain't helping them.
+
+I am not sure what security model nel will adopt but there are many to 
+choose from and none suffer from the openness of the protocol. You could 
+sign the client binaries with a public/private key pair. This stops 
+trivial hacks. You would also run a secure game server which does bounds 
+checking on the input, this stops obvious hacking. You can also encrypt 
+the client->server data stream. Fundamentally you are in trouble because 
+the client is a generalised computing machine which the user has 
+complete control over, if they have the machine code they can crack it, 
+but you can make it damn hard. You can also make any hack shortlived by 
+having dynamic binaries. The open source nature of nel only makes it 
+more secure as any flaws or bugs in the implementation will be spotted 
+and solved, rather than being exploited (many eyes make bugs shallow).
+
+:)
+
+
+
+
+Alexander Denisov wrote:
+
+> Hi to everybody, I think this is my first time posting on the mailing list.
+> 
+> I was thinking lately about GPL/open source discussion, and one question
+> still bothers me: hacks and cheats in MMORPG.
+> 
+> I have seen a couple of times when hacks/cheats ruined great games
+> (and I do believe that Nevrax is doing a very good game), since online
+> gameplay is very sensitive to such things.
+> 
+> By publishing source code of the game, isn't it like giving a "green light"
+> to hackers? Are there any ways
+> somehow to prevent (or at least try to prevent) hacks and cheats, even if
+> hacker
+> knows the source code? Can the game company keep the network part of their
+> game in secret
+> (though I don't see how, since its clearly using NeL in this case).
+> 
+> I appologise if my question is completely unrelated to NeL and Nevrax game,
+> since all the details are kept in secret, but I think that this is very
+> important question.
+> 
+> By the way, thanks for the great engine! (though I'm still trying to compile
+> it)
+> 
+> Alex
+> 
+> _______________________________________________
+> Nel mailing list
+> Nel@nevrax.org
+> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+> 
+
+
+-- 
+Alfred Reynolds
+alfred@mazuma.net.au
+
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e460fc2f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000821.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Nel] Feedback + + + + + + +

[Nel] Feedback

+ Arnaud Bienvenu + arnaud.bienvenu@via.ecp.fr
+ Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:12:29 +0100 +

+
+ +
Thanks for answering Cedric,
+
+On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 07:10:15PM +0100, Cedric Valignat wrote:
+> Sorry but i i have no clue for that problem :-(
+
+I managed to workaround this problem linking the snowballs 2 client against
+libGL.so (by default, libnel_drv_opengl.so is linked against libGL, but not
+the snowballs 2 client). I do not know if this is a Linux requirement, or
+another bug in RedHat's 7.2 GL librairies. I hope a Linux Guru will give us a
+clue.
+
+By the way, the libICE.soh standing instead of libICE.so is obviously a
+display bug non related to nel, since I could reproduce it from clean trivial
+code.
+
+At last, running the snowballs client, I get this well known error :
+INF 5222 client.cpp 145 : Starting Snowballs !
+WRN 5222 dru.cpp 95 : when loading dynamic library 'libnel_drv_opengl.so':
+/usr/local/lib/libnel_drv_opengl.so: undefined symbol: glSetFenceNV
+WRN 5222 common.cpp 392 : Exception will be launched: libnel_drv_opengl.so
+not found
+
+I read on this list the problem is due to Fence NV disappearing from
+Mesa-3.4 (which I use), and that the nevrax team is working on it. Is it
+still the case ?
+
+> I applied the first patch, the second one was already applied when a
+> took a look on ii.
+
+The patched versions are not yet available from today's CVS head revision, but
+I trust you it's in the pipeline.
+
+Regards,
+Arnaud Bienvenu
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..db00119c --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000823.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic) + + + + + + +

[Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question (probablyoff topic)

+ Daniel Miller + miller@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:07:37 +0100 +

+
+ +
At Nevrax our thoughts run as follows:
+
+Game clients are very easy to reverse engineer or hack on a PC.
+Server/ Client data packets are even easier to hack.
+
+We assume that whether the source code for the client is open or closed, it
+will inevitably be modified.
+
+The only way to avoid cheating is to take all game sensitive decisions
+server-side and to treat client as a kind of dumb terminal. This has
+implications throughout the game design.
+
+For instance, to avoid a hack from making invisible players visible, it is
+up to the servers not to transmit update information for invisible players
+to the clients. This means that invisible players can not make 3d-positional
+noises as this would give an exploitable piece of information.
+
+The front end servers clearly have to be robust too which means that all
+incoming data from the clients is treated with caution - packets containing
+invalid data are simply ignored.
+
+
+In a nutshell - we assume that servers are trustworthy and that clients are
+not.
+
+
+Daniel.
+
+-----Original Message-----
+From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+Vincent Caron
+Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 7:13 PM
+To: nel@nevrax.org
+Subject: Re: [Nel] open source MMORPG and hacks/cheats question
+(probablyoff topic)
+
+
+There's a bit more than the 'security through obscurity' debate in this
+question. It is actually more a question of trust, or if you prefer,
+_what_ or _who_ needs to be secured ? The game ? The player moves ? The
+server knowledge ?
+
+Eric S. Raymond (with a nice link to Carmack's tought about this) did a
+nice essay, back to the time where 'cheating drivers' (making walls
+transparent) were about to be unveiled for FPS games :
+
+http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/quake-cheats.html
+
+
+_______________________________________________
+Nel mailing list
+Nel@nevrax.org
+http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..f8842b1b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000825.html @@ -0,0 +1,95 @@ + + + + [Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....) + + + + + + +

[Nel] server architecture (front end, load balancing, login service, ....)

+ Vianney Lecroart + lecroart@nevrax.com
+ Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi nico,
+
+> I've got a little question about the architecture of the server side.
+> If I don't make mistake a shard is composed of N front ends and behind
+> front ends there is some computers running different services.
+> And some where there is a login service (one per shard or one for all
+shard
+> ?)
+
+Shard is composed of services. There are front end services and back end
+services.
+Client are connected with on front end service and front end services are
+connected with back end services.
+There's only one login service for all shards. The client first connects to
+the login service that checks the validity of the account, after the client
+choose the shard. The login service warn the shard (via welcome service (one
+per shard)) that a new client will come. The welcome service chooses the
+best front end for the client and sends the choosen front end to the login
+service and the login service sends this info to the client. after, the
+client connects to the selected front end and authenticates.
+
+> But how clients are balanced between the N front ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement (try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+> It will be done by a generic load balancer (hardware)
+> or a specific service from NEL ?
+
+It s the welcome service that do that.
+
+> The source code of the load balancer and the front end are delivered with
+> NEL ?
+
+Look the welcome service :-)
+
+> If there a description of all NEL services ?
+
+Look the net part of http://www.nevrax.org/docs/
+And also try here http://www.nevrax.org/docs/doxygen/nel/pages.html
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+
+ + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4a6b5f95 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000826.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ + + + + [Nel] peer to peer ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] peer to peer ? +

+ nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com + + nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com +
+ Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:15:59 GMT +

+
+ +
--__--__--
+
+Message: 3
+From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+load balancing, login service, ....)
+Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+charset="iso-8859-1"
+Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+
+> But how clients are balanced between the N front
+ends of a shard ?
+
+For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+(try to have the same
+player number on each front end).
+
+>>>> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+between client (such peer to peer network, or
+distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+could be possible to connect people which interract a
+lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+to the minimum.
+
+Does i smoke too much ?
+
+nicO
+
+ 
+______________________________________________________________________________
+ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet !
+vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP...
+http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..147c42ce --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000827.html @@ -0,0 +1,156 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax +

+ Paul Siegel + + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com +
+ Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:49:45 -0500 +

+
+ +
My apologies, I accidentally sent this first to nel-admin.  Guess the
+reply-to of the digest isn't set up to go to the correct place.  Here it is
+again, I hope nobody gets this twice:
+
+Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+Therefore, I've finally settled on the most basic thing I could find, namely
+sPatch.  (http://www.geocities.com/getspatch/index.html).  It is little more
+than a bezier patch editor, but currently that's all I need.  There appears
+to be a more feature rich package based on sPatch called hamaPatch
+(http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Ginza/6625/soft10.html), but currently all
+documentation on this is in Japanese and I don't speak the language.
+Perhaps my work can some day be moved to hamaPatch, but for the moment I'm
+sticking with sPatch.  Which means we should be able to generate the zone
+files with sPatch, but will need a seperate piece of software to paint the
+textures (since sPatch doesn't support any kind of texturing).  But I'll
+burn that bridge when I get to it.  ;)
+
+Fortunately, sPatch has good documentation on creating export plugins, and
+I'm well on my way to successfully making one.  I have a couple questions
+though for anyone on this list whi is familiar with the 3D code.
+
+1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to have
+a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use to
+populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these filled
+in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+fill in upon generating a single zone?
+
+2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest way
+to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to see
+if it indeed exported a valid file?
+
+Thanks again everyone for all the help.  This is a great project, and I'm
+having lots of fun playing with it.
+
+Paul
+
+> And more:
+> http://terraform.sourceforge.net/
+> http://ftp.arl.army.mil/brlcad/
+> http://www.planetside.co.uk/terragen/
+>
+> Saturday, December 15, 2001, 1:02:07 PM, you wrote:
+>
+> ME> Tony Hoyt schrieb:
+>
+> >> Paul Siegel wrote:
+> >> >
+> >> > Hi everyone -
+> >> >
+> >> > I'm wondering if there's a way to build landscapes without 3D Studio
+> Max.
+> >> > That's some pricey software just to do level editing.  Is anything
+> >> > available, or being worked on?  Or am I going to have to learn how to
+> >> > rewrite the max plugins for Blender?
+> >>
+> >>   Blender is my choice as well for a good free alternative 3d editor.
+> >> I'm not sure how you make plug-in's for Blender other then with python
+> >> but if you can do it, I wish you all the best of luck. I think the
+> >> problem with doing a port is that if your not able to see the original
+> >> in action or see what library calls it's makeing, etc.  It's going to
+be
+> >> rough going.  But if your serious about it, I'm willing to give a hand
+> >> although I don't have 3D Studio Max as well.
+>
+> ME> There's also a free landscape modeller at
+> ->> www.geofrac2000.com
+>
+> ME> It was once commercial and its interface is very much like that of
+> 3dsmax.
+> ME> The author discontinued the project and made it available for free,
+but
+> it's
+> ME> still worth a look. You can use standard algorithms (perlin, etc.) for
+> ME> landscape generation, create mountains and craters or just paint with
+> the
+> ME> raise/lower-tool. Realtime 3D-display just like 3dsmax as well.
+>
+> >>
+> >>
+> >>   Tony
+> >>
+>
+> ME> -Markus-
+>
+>
+> ME> _______________________________________________
+> ME> Nel mailing list
+> ME> Nel@nevrax.org
+> ME> http://www.nevrax.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/nel
+>
+>
+>
+> --
+> Dim Segebart                         mailto:zager@teleaction.de
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c20e76fb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000828.html @@ -0,0 +1,180 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax +

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + + corvazier@nevrax.com +
+ Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:20:34 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Paul,
+
+> Thank you everyone for the links.    I'm afraid though that these terrain
+> building packages generate height fields, and as you may or may not be
+> aware, NeL uses bezier patches, not height fields to generate its terrain.
+
+You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+
+> 1.  How much information of the CPatchInfo object must be filled in to
+have
+> a viable object?  sPatch gives me a 4x4 array of vertexes which I can use
+to
+> populate the vertices, tangents, and interiors of the CPatchInfo object.
+> However, I am still a bit unclear what much of the data in the CPatchInfo
+> object is, especially the BindEdges (4 CBindInfo structs).  Are these
+filled
+> in when welding the zones together, or are they something I will need to
+> fill in upon generating a single zone?
+
+The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder will
+fill them
+of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to fill the
+CBindInfo.
+
+The patches can be linked those way : (warning ASCII arts in non-constant
+size
+fonts.. :-)  )
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+     3
+   ***
+0 *  * 2
+   ***
+     1
+
+---
+
+There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+---
+
+One patch on another :
+
+**********
+*      *        *
+*  0  *   1   *
+*      *        *
+*      *        *
+**********
+CBindInfo:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1 },
+Edge = { 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 0 },
+Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   2   *
+**********
+Bind info:
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2 }, Edge = { 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 2, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+**********
+*      *   1   *
+*      ******
+*      *   2   *
+*  0  ******
+*      *   3   *
+*      ******
+*      *   4   *
+**********
+Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  MultipleBindNum = 1, Next = { Patch 1, Patch
+2, Patch 3, Patch 4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 3,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 2,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 1,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  MultipleBindNum = 4, MultipleBindId = 0,
+Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+---
+
+Note that zone_welder welds automaticaly the zones together but don't
+generate bind info for internal patch linking in a zone.
+It searches for shared vertices in the 2 zones and weld them. Zone_welder
+can perform only 1-1 bind type.
+
+I hope this is understandable, don't hesitate to ask for details.
+
+> 2.  Once I manage to export a .zone file, what's the quickest, dirtiest
+way
+> to test it?  Will I need to build an entire app just to load the .zone, or
+> is there some way I can easily hack it into the Snowballs client just to
+see
+> if it indeed exported a valid file?
+
+You can replace a zone in snowball, or make a simple application to see
+the zone. If you want, i can post a peace of code for a small app.
+
+Cyril Corvazier
+
+
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ad05065b --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000830.html @@ -0,0 +1,132 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #207 - 4 msgs +

+ Paul Siegel + + psiegel@geneticanomalies.com +
+ Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:05:16 -0500 +

+
+ +
Cyril to the rescue again!  (Or do you prefer Hulud?  And if so, will you
+tell me what it means?)  You know, I've gotten slower responses from
+"support" that I pay for.  My thanks again.
+
+> You can build patches with an heightfield. It a fast way to generate
+> a simple lansdcape. Simply raise the tangeants vertices with the joined
+> vertices of a bezier patch : you have a heightfield !
+
+Hmm, I'm not sure I parse this, but it intrigues me.  Unfortunately, my
+knowledge of height fields is even less than that of bezier patches, the
+latter of which I've only learned as I researched writing this plugin.  What
+do you mean by "the joined vertices"?  Are these the four outer corner
+vertices of a bezier patch?  And what happens to the interiors?
+
+> The BindEdges info are required to properly link patches together at
+> runtime. You have to filled them for internal zone linking. zone_welder
+> will fill them of inter-zone link. Hear come some explications on how to
+fill the
+> CBindInfo.
+
+Thanks, the info was very helpful.  I've coppied it over into a monospaced
+text file, and it all makes sense.  I'm guessing now that the program I've
+been working with is much more simplistic than what you've had to deal with
+(though I guess it doesn't take much to be more simplistic than max!)
+
+The plugin includes the following code with which I can deal:
+
+typedef struct {
+ float x, y, z;
+} SP_Vector;
+
+typedef struct {
+ long v1, v2, v3;
+} SP_Triangle;
+
+typedef struct {
+ SP_Vector ctrlPoints[4][4];
+
+ long  numPoints, numTriangles;
+ SP_Vector *points, *normals;
+ SP_Triangle *triangles;
+} SP_Patch;
+
+void SPExportPatch(SP_Patch *patch)
+{
+ /* This function is called for each patch in a layer. */
+ /* Every patch is described as both a set of control points (for a cubic
+Bezier */
+ /* patch) and as a set of triangles - use whichever you need. */
+ }
+
+Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add some complex
+ruitines to mathematically figure out which patches are adjacent to each
+other and therefore how to bind them, or move along to another piece of
+software with hopefully better export data.  I'd really hate to do the
+former as I've actually got the thing exporting zone files (they just have
+no bind info, and would probably look like hell if I tried to use them).
+The latter though seems rather intimidating, especially with my limited
+knowledge of three dimensional geometry.
+
+Well, before I make that decision I want to be sure I understand all the
+data I need to create these patches.  I've got the vertices, tangents,
+interiors, and now the BindInfo structs.  There is also an array of
+BaseVertices in the CPatchInfo object that I don't think I understand.
+Besides that the rest of the data appears to concern coloration and tiles,
+which I'm not going to worry about yet (recall that's phase 2).  Is it valid
+though to set OrderS and OrderT to 0, and therefore only supply a single
+color for the entire patch?  Will the patch render, or will I see nothing
+until I complete phase 2 (painting the patches)?
+
+Paul
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9547d5c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000831.html @@ -0,0 +1,141 @@ + + + + [Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Landscapes without 3DSMax +

+ Cyril 'Hulud' Corvazier + + corvazier@nevrax.com +
+ Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:21:17 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Paul,
+
+Forget all the ASCII parts of the 2 previous mail, here is the good way to
+fill the CPatchInfo::CBindInfo structure :
+
+---
+
+We will assume all patches in this example are oriented like this
+
+0      3
+  ***
+  *  *
+  ***
+1      2
+
+---
+
+The edge numbers are :
+
+      3
+    ***
+ 0 *  * 2
+    ***
+      1
+
+ ---
+
+ There is 3 ways to bind patches together. (1-1, 1-2, 1-4)
+
+ ---
+
+ One patch on another :
+
+ **********
+ *      *        *
+ *  0  *   1   *
+ *      *        *
+ **********
+ CBindInfo:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 1 }, Edge = { 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1, Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ Two patches on another (Bind 2)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   2   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Bind info:
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 2,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2 }, Edge = { 0,
+0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+ 4 patches on another (Bind 4)
+
+ **********
+ *      *   4   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   3   *
+ *  0  ******
+ *      *   2   *
+ *      ******
+ *      *   1   *
+ **********
+ Patch 0, edge 2 : NPatchs = 4,  Next = { Patch 1, Patch 2, Patch 3, Patch
+4 }, Edge = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }
+ Patch 1, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 2, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 3, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+ Patch 4, edge 0 : NPatchs = 1,  Next = { Patch 0 }, Edge = { 2 }
+
+ ---
+
+Sorry but i have been confused by the two classes called CPatch::CBindInfo
+and CPatchInfo::CBindInfo. :-)
+
+Cyril Corvazier.
+
+
+
+
+
+ + + +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..879947d3 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000835.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Nel] Max Bezier Patches + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Max Bezier Patches +

+ Nel List + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:45:26 -0800 +

+
+ +
+> Unfortunately there appears to be no information whatsoever on the
+> interconnectivity of the patches.  Therefore, I can either add 
+> some complex
+
+If these are Bezier patches, then the outer control points (the four
+corners) will be shared with the neighbours; two corners per 
+neighbour. This seems to me to be equivalent to finding adjacent 
+triangles using shared edges, which certainly isn't complicated math 
+(although the simplest implementation takes O(n^2) time).
+
+
+
+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b9145803 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000836.html @@ -0,0 +1,128 @@ + + + + [Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] Re: Nel digest, Vol 1 #210 - 1 msg +

+ nicO + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:36:33 -0500 +

+
+ +
I imagine that the data resend by the server are almost the same than
+those send by the client. It isn't possible to mix this to technics ? We
+can imagine peer to peer access for close characters to interract with a
+minimuim latency. And for the farer charaters, we can use the server and
+movement prediction (which could not be so bad because if there far, the
+characters will be small on screen).
+
+The idea behind that is to relax the pressure on the needed latency of
+the server. Does it not possible to add some more intelligence inside
+the client to predict what is usefull or not to minimize exchange ? 
+
+nicO
+
+> Subject: RE: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+> 
+> There are various reasons why we haven't opted for a peer to peer model.
+> 
+> One of the most basic problems is this:
+> We are trying to achieve a high level of audio-visual immersion with scenes
+> in which tens or hundreds of individuals move about fluidly. The majority of
+> players only have 56k modems and bandwidth is a big issue. The problem with
+> peer to peer is that each player has to send and receive tens or hundreds of
+> packets per scene update at a rate of several scene updates per second. The
+> internet headers alone for these packets are liable to completely drown the
+> modem.
+> 
+> Internally we use kunning systems to decide which information on which
+> players is relavent to send to which other players taking bandwidth
+> constraints into account. This allows us to make optimum use of the
+> bandwidth available.
+> 
+> This code is tightly tied in with the game systems so I'm affraid it won't
+> be released for a while yet.
+> 
+> Daniel
+> 
+> -----Original Message-----
+> From: nel-admin@nevrax.org [mailto:nel-admin@nevrax.org]On Behalf Of
+> nicolas.boulay@ifrance.com
+> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:16 PM
+> To: nel@nevrax.org
+> Subject: [Nel] peer to peer ?
+> 
+> -- __--__--
+> 
+> Message: 3
+> From: "Vianney Lecroart" <lecroart@nevrax.com>
+> To: <nel@nevrax.org>
+> Subject: Re: [Nel] server architecture (front end,
+> load balancing, login service, ....)
+> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:30 +0100
+> charset="iso-8859-1"
+> Reply-To: nel@nevrax.org
+> 
+> > But how clients are balanced between the N front
+> ends of a shard ?
+> 
+> For now, the welcome service does a dumb balancement
+> (try to have the same
+> player number on each front end).
+> 
+> >>>> Why don't you try to use LVS ?
+> More generaly do you plan to make direct connection
+> between client (such peer to peer network, or
+> distributed computing) ? It could be nice for
+> reduicing trafic to the server. To havoid cheating,
+> each client cheeck data as the server does. Maybe it
+> could be possible to connect people which interract a
+> lot (in the same area, ...), there is still some
+> mouvement with server to handle critical ressouces.
+> So mouvement to the center server are almost reduice
+> to the minimum.
+> 
+> Does i smoke too much ?
+> 
+> nicO
+>
+
+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..9eecb250 --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/000837.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Nel] precompiled header file + + + + + + + + + +

[Nel] precompiled header file +

+ Vianney Lecroart + + nel@nevrax.org +
+ Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:59:57 +0100 +

+
+ +
Hi Zen,
+
+>I don't know whether gcc support precompiled header or not, but VisualC++
+do support it.
+
+We know precomp headers and we don't include it because on big project we
+already had some strange bug during compilation because of precomp headers
+so we decided to not use them because we already have lot of strange visual
+bug to don't add more.
+But we'll do a try soon and add them in the CVS if it works fine.
+
+Vianney Lecroart
+---
+lead network programmer / nevrax.com
+icq#: 6870415
+homepage: http://ace.planet-d.net
+www.geekcode.com: GCS/E d- s+++: a-- C+++$ UL++ P- L+++>+$ E+>- W++ N+ o? K-
+w++$ O- M- V- PS- PE? Y PGP t 5? X+ R- tv++ b- DI D+ G e++ h+ r-- y?
+
+
+
+
+ +
+

+ diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..5152a36f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Author + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Author

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..829f609f --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Date + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Date

+ +

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+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
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+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..e92320eb --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/index.html @@ -0,0 +1,420 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Thread + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

+

+

+

+ This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition). + + + diff --git a/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 00000000..fc45eecc --- /dev/null +++ b/pipermail/nel/2001-December/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,312 @@ + + + + The Nel 2001-December Archive by Subject + + + + + +

2001-December Archives by Subject

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
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+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

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2001-December Archives by Thread

+ +

Starting: Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
+ Ending: Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Messages: 66

+

+

+ Last message date: + Wed Dec 26 18:36:33 2001
+ Archived on: Wed Dec 26 14:06:01 2001 +

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+

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